What’s The Most Important Thing Holding You Back From Having It ALL?

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david-1Hi, This is Rori, and I’d love your help!

Please let me know your thoughts and feelings about this:

What – in your personal experience and the experiences of your friends and family – do you see as the biggest problem around being successful at work, and still having a great love life?

Here are some questions and ideas to help you help me with this:

How has work, business, earning a living, and being successful gotten in the way of your love life?

How has a man gotten in the way of your success at work?

Do you ever feel worried that being successful in business will intimidate men and wreck your love life – so you stop yourself in business before you even start…?

Do the men you meet make you feel “unfeminine” for being so good at business?

Do you feel more like a man at work than like a “girl” and find it icky..?

(Or – if you LOVE taking charge, being independent, working at all hours hard as you like, making good money and – then find yourself frustrated with men...)

Let me know if love and money seem like opposites to you..

Let me know how you really feel, down deep, about the possibility of Having It All – work AND love?

If there’s one thing that stands out for you, that’s making “Having It All” seem impossible for you – please let me know the details!

Also – please let me know if I can use your answers in my new ebook – The Business Siren Handbook…(I’ll use whatever name you ask me to use…)

Love, Rori

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  1.  #1CurvySiren10 on March 12, 2015 at 12:55 pm

    This is all very tricky. As a sole breadwinner, married for 2+ decades to a man who had very little ambition and became a stay-home dad by default, I had to claw my way up the corporate ladder in order to support my family. This, of course, put me into a perpetual state of masculine energy for many, many years and ultimately, it probably (at least in part) contributed to the end of the marriage. My ex was culturally very “macho”, yet our roles in the relationship were completely non-traditional ones. So while having to be the “man” in my professional life, I was expected to be the (submissive) woman in my relationship. I found it an impossible balancing act. I still struggle with staying in the feminine, but I also don’t feel that I actually have to anymore. I do think you can ‘have it all’ in that regard, but it takes a lot of awareness and effort and the right type of relationship to make that work. The masculine/feminine roles must be adequately balanced and both parties have to be in sync in regards to expectations, in my opinion. You can use my comments if you’d like Rori….and I certainly have a lot of thoughts on this subject if you care to know anymore. 🙂

  2.  #2Femininewoman on March 12, 2015 at 1:39 pm

    I feel more like a man at work and I have consciously started to change but no I don’t feel icky about it.

  3.  #3Labbit on March 12, 2015 at 2:57 pm

    Oh man, so much I could say here! I had a very successful corporate career…rising to C-level before age 30. Love life? Not so much, LOL.

    — What – in your personal experience and the experiences of your friends and family – do you see as the biggest problem around being successful at work, and still having a great love life?
    I had always been taught that anything I wanted to happen for me, I had to MAKE IT HAPPEN. Perhaps my Mom or my sisters tried to instill some relationship knowledge in me…but I was a very headstrong teenager so I doubt I would have listened anyway. So having barely any knowledge of how relationships worked, in my teens and early 20s up until now I figured that what worked at work should work in relationships…because I was ultra-successful at work, so shouldn’t it follow that the same methods would work in relationship? Of course as I’ve learned, no, if you want to be the feminine-energy partner it does not work the same AT ALL. I wish that I had learned sooner how to balance my competent masculine energy at work with feminine energy in my relationships. Perhaps my engagement to a man I loved dearly that eventually ended would have gone differently.

    — Do you ever feel worried that being successful in business will intimidate men and wreck your love life – so you stop yourself in business before you even start…?
    YES, at least in the past I felt this way. I can’t tell you how awful it was on dates, when I was honest with men that I was a C-level exec, it was like I could see their penises shrinking right in front of me. I felt like it limited my dating pool to men more successful than me…and the men of that successful that I was meeting were not emotionally mature, wanted a Stepford Wife type, or were just interested in blowing through women as quickly as possible. I have a different perspective now…but at the time it was like a punch to the gut.

    I can remember when I got promoted to C-level at work, my bosses took me out to dinner (they are both male) and their wives came along. I’d ended my engagement and I had no date. It was upsetting on so many levels. I was mortified not to have a date and the impression that left on my bosses (not good). I was angry at my ex. I was angry at myself. And I felt so very alone, like I had this wonderful thing in my life and no significant other to celebrate it with. That was a huge turning point for me — I knew things had to change in my life. I didn’t know what or how to do it yet though. This was about 2 years ago.

    — (Or – if you LOVE taking charge, being independent, working at all hours hard as you like, making good money and – then find yourself frustrated with men…) <— This WAS totally me, yes. Now I get it, I'm no longer afraid to be a smart, successful businesswoman because I know how to balance that with being a feminine-energy woman in my relationship (and sometimes at work too!).

    —Let me know if love and money seem like opposites to you..
    YES. I still feel a hang-up inside about the idea of making more money than my man…to me, that would have to mean flipping the traditional relationship roles to where I'd be the breadwinner and he'd be stay-at-home. So I probably earn less now than I could, keep myself smaller in that way. Although with TenderCD even if I earned to my full potential I'd still make way less than him so logistically it's not an issue anymore.

    —Let me know how you really feel, down deep, about the possibility of Having It All – work AND love?
    I feel like it MUST be possible, but I'm not all the way there yet. I am taking baby steps in that direction. I fear that any man would be turned off by a too-successful woman, as though he'd feel un-needed in some major subconscious way.

  4.  #4Labbit on March 12, 2015 at 3:01 pm

    Oh I should mention I ended up quitting my corporate job and starting my own business for awhile, before a company I contracted for took me on full-time (at a much lower level title, but one I feel way happier in). There was about a year where I was nearly broke, plowing through my savings so quickly, because I didn’t feel like I deserved anything more. I felt very broken — no good job, no good man, blah.

  5.  #5Linda on March 12, 2015 at 5:17 pm

    I posted last night a couple of threads back. It was a rant. I was so focused on what is eating at me I felt like I wanted to explode. Nothing feels easy in my life right now.. NOTHING ! Everything just feels so hard. I have hardly been able to keep my composure today.

    I have just been reading and reading here. Reading and reading, extracting gold nuggets and tucking them in my pockets.

    My heart feels fragile and I need sleep.

  6.  #6Mandy on March 12, 2015 at 5:39 pm

    The animation industry is a man’s world, so being the only girl in the place constantly is a pain. I’ve been asked to look at animations because I am a woman, because they said they needed a woman’s p[erspective for a cute Easter animation and I was like uh…yeah that’s great…

    I didn’t like it when they did that, but I was proud for running with the big dogs…

  7.  #7Mandy on March 12, 2015 at 5:43 pm

    I have to riff. I feel down in a hole and so small.

    J and I got into a massive fight last night, and it waqs after he took me out on a huge lavish date. I just feel like….

    How can a man expect you to be grateful for a date when he treats you like shit afterwards?

    I just went in the bedroom to get my phone and he woke up and asked for water, and he noticed I was being coldish. I just said, I feel sad and angry, I just thought you should know that”. And I left the bedroom.

    God I feel so awful right now. He really is a f***ing piece of work.

  8.  #8Beloved on March 12, 2015 at 6:52 pm

    Will wonders never cease?
    I feel in awe and amazed.
    TG is doing all kinds of remodeling while he’s unemployed. One of the changes is, closing off the main big living room, knocking down one of the walls and connecting it to the master bedroom to make it a suite.
    I felt weird about this. I didn’t like feeling welcome to hang out in the living room then not-welcome.
    I wanted to feel like I could have a man come over and hang out and feel cozy in that big room. I didn’t like feeling confined to the small living room, that feels very masculine.
    I felt into everything I was feeling, practiced some scripts…after feeling all of it I felt like I needed to simply accept the situation. It isn’t my house. TG has plans for wanting to rent the master out later so he can travel or move somewhere else or something. It isn’t about me.
    Later when we talked, all I said was, it feels weird and a remark about the furniture in the big living room feeling softer and cozier. He laughed and said, “you’ll get used to it”.
    So, I get on with my life..accepting that even though this isn’t what I expected, this is what’s happening.
    Later I go downstairs, and TG calls me over to say, “You’re in luck, BeLoved! I’m going to …” and proceeds to give me his whole plan of how he is going to move all of the cozy furniture into the smaller den for the roomies to use, and change some other things around, move some furniture out and make the whole thing feel cozier and softer. 🙂
    I feel like…wow. Wow. How cool is that?
    I hate to think of him leaving, it feels so nice that he’s here. And…I can’t control that.
    So I’m enjoying and soaking it in while he is.

  9.  #9Zia on March 12, 2015 at 9:56 pm

    Elsie – re the posts on the previous thread, while I won’t comment on the right or wrong of sending that email, what I will say is I LOVED how much feeling came out in your posts – there was fire and passion and determination and resolution. Thanks for sharing 🙂

  10.  #10prplpsn28 on March 12, 2015 at 11:25 pm


  11.  #11Indigo on March 13, 2015 at 12:11 am

    – Do you ever feel worried that being successful in business will intimidate men and wreck your love life – so you stop yourself in business before you even start…?

    Not with the right man. Some men I’ve dated, certainly, have seemed threatened or at least competitive with my intelligence, but I always knew right away that those weren’t the right men for me. D is extremely sharp and is on a par with me intellectually so I don’t get the feeling he is intimidated. If anything we help to expand each other’s thoughts. As far as being intimidated by my success/money, this is just not an issue. He is more professionally qualified than me and much wealthier than me. I have never put a lot of stock in things like this for myself. We had a similar background and both went to similar kinds of private schools so we are culturally in sync and I believe this is important. A wide cultural gap between partners can cause a “looking down on” kind of feeling.

    – Do you feel more like a man at work than like a “girl” and find it icky..?

    When I was in Management in a corporate environment I felt this way. I always felt like I had to be super strong and was never allowed to be sick or vulnerable, or if I was, people were unsympathetic because they needed me to “get back on the horse”. I didn’t enjoy this. But since actively pursuing work that gives me more flexibility and which doesn’t drain me like that, I find being feminine at work much easier, and effective in certain situations.

    – Let me know if love and money seem like opposites to you..

    Definitely not. My mom brought me up to have a very generous, expansive view of money, and taught me that money is there to be spent on the people that we love, and on doing the things that we love. So I have always seen love and money as partners. And I look for men who reflect this philosophy too. Men who are happy to spend money on me and the people they love and on building a good life. In my own life, pursuit of money has never been an ideal or goal of mine – I only strive to be comfortable and am not ambitious. I’ve always seen money as being in service to the other things and people in my life, so I suppose I can’t really relate to this dilemma.

    – Let me know how you really feel, down deep, about the possibility of Having It All – work AND love?

    I absolutely believe it is possible, and I feel excited about the prospect. I intend to one day own my own business doing work I am passionate about. I have chosen a man who I know will be very supportive of my goals and my dreams and wants me to be myself, and will not be at all intimidated by my success. My ex-husband wasn’t as supportive as I would have liked, and this was a very stifling feeling. I felt caged and suffocated. So it feels wonderful to be with someone who will let me pursue whatever course feels right to me.

  12.  #12Mandy on March 13, 2015 at 5:27 am

    Boy do I feel like a dunce! J and I drank too much last night. Obvious problem. DUH. Bad children!

    But the good parts….he bought me a bottle of wine for a surprise, and then after I got dressed up and went out with him, he smiled really big when he saw I was having fun, he got this huge glow about him just like he’s about to burst with sunshine, when he sees me light up. I thought that was so sweet…Why does he want to do those things for me? I guess he is doing well at work and got a raise of almost a dollar so he wanted to…y’know…take his lady out on the town 🙂

    He’s displaying behavior that’s unlike him, more extroverted…he even pulled me onto his lap for fun.

    You see, having been overweight my whole life and having now being in the healthy BMI range, I always wanted to be able to sit on my boyfriend’s lap, but never thought I could because I was too heavy and it always made me very, very sad. So when I said, eh, I’m not feeling so great about my stuff right now, he pulled me onto his lap and said “Come here, sit on Santa’s lap”. I damn near died with glee. I let him know how happy I was and he said hm, I’ll have to remember that….LOL.

    But, poor guy has been throwing up all day 🙁 The absolute hardest thing for me to do is not take care of him especially when he’s sick. I broke down and got some ginger ale and chicken soup for him and snuggled him in bed after heating it up for him and letting him eat it. He didn’t get sick for several hours when I was laying with him but then I got sore from my hip hurting so I got up and instantly after I got up, he started throwing up again. Sometimes I think the two of us are pair-bonded, just like my twin brother and I. We both kind of freak out when one of us goes a short distance away from the other.

    I had a friend tell me tonight without me asking that she knows J and I are almost like an opposite acting couple…he’s way more feminine energy. She is not the first to say that. It is almost as though he and I cannot fight our own natures, but may be attracted to each other because of them in the first place. A whole lot of men seem to get confused and weirded-out a lot when a woman makes a gesture which is made usually by the one assuming the male gender-role.

    I read in a very famous psychology publication recently that it’s easier on a straight couple if they take cues from gay couples – forget about gender roles. Let the guy cook, wash the dishes. Lol. But I don’t think the issue is that J’s feminine, I think it’s just his anxiety, my anxiety, our anxiety. He feels like affection is usually too much for him, or embarrassing, or dirty. Just like trying to get a person with an eating disorder to touch their food. They just feel so anxious they want to run. That makes me feel bad for the person who has that problem.

    But I remember I have that problem too, and that’s why i chose J. I didn’t realize I REALLY DID want a lot of affection, it’s just at first, in the dating stages, I thought I didn’t, and so there it is! I was like, oh perfect, he won’t bother me, lol…I guess I should’ve listened closer in Love Scripts…it feels so weird when a guy’s energy is beaming at me!

    I just wonder like hell if it is just a serious disadvantage for him to be so feminine so to speak. If I tell him how I feel he feels bad. If someone does something for him, he’ll forget the task ever existed.
    Our friends think it’s good for him. He’s so feminine-energy he’s just nearly silent.

    It feels like a lot of work to get someone excited or to get them to talk or something. That’s why I like it when it seems I’m the quiet one and he’s like wait, that’s not right…what’s going on?

    He’s an interesting introvert because when he does speak it’s usually very funny, and I’m a sucker for humor. Every night I get a guffawing belly laugh from him and I’m not sure how he keeps doing it, lol.

    But he sure feels playful. I like it!

  13.  #13Sirenity on March 13, 2015 at 5:59 am

    I stuffed up.

    Somehow I got this strength, work. womanly loving competence thing screwed up and my guy “walked”.

    I lost my man by waiting for him to row the relationship boat, yet actually what mattered more to me was that we balanced and fitted. I lost him regardless and feel very unhappy.I think I leaned back and lost .

    I don’t think I have ever “had it all’ in my life , but I haven’t given up yet. Curvy Siren I agree 100%.,

  14.  #14Mandy on March 13, 2015 at 6:25 am


    That’s very confusing! Leaned back and lost him? Meaning…he left because you didn’t do something? I apologize if this is offensive, but he sound a bit like he was being a brat, like he’s used to women courting him like a prince.

    I wouldn’t want to end up committed to someone i had to do all the work with. Although I can kind of say I have…even though when provoked the right way, my guy does step up…

    I’d like to hear more about it when you feel the need to “bubble up” about it, as I like to say…

  15.  #15Mistea1 on March 13, 2015 at 6:30 am

    Beloved 8,
    Enjoying your talk of where your are living. It sounds wonderful and you are learning so much.

  16.  #16Mandy on March 13, 2015 at 6:32 am

    I’d like to add, about the work situations,

    I am easily intimated by men. If I feel as though they are pals, I can easily work around it, but if I feel as though they are like my father, demanding and hyper-vigilant or critical, I just wind up into a bind at work.

    In fact I have avoided the workplace for over a year because of a bad experience with a boss at an animation studio I interned at after college.

    Every time this boss man took his steps down the hallway to come into the room to check on our work, I would just freeze in terror. This man was a total jerk, out of the Marine Corps and a real hard-ass. Once he told me I “half-assed” a piece of work and, I had to go to the bathroom to cry it out.

    I am very defiant and I want to run my own ship; I do not like being told what to do at all, so I tend towards freelance and being my own boss.

  17.  #17Gemini Goddess on March 13, 2015 at 8:56 am

    I appreciate these questions being posed. Writing and redefining my response has been eye opening.

  18.  #18Beloved on March 13, 2015 at 9:27 am

    Indigo – this – ”
    My mom brought me up to have a very generous, expansive view of money, and taught me that money is there to be spent on the people that we love, and on doing the things that we love. So I have always seen love and money as partners. And I look for men who reflect this philosophy too. Men who are happy to spend money on me and the people they love and on building a good life. In my own life, pursuit of money has never been an ideal or goal of mine – I only strive to be comfortable and am not ambitious. I’ve always seen money as being in service to the other things and people in my life, so I suppose I can’t really relate to this dilemma.”

    Wha?? I feel confounded. Please, oh please tell me more about this. I could just cry. What is it like to feel this way about money? Help me understand…
    because in my house, money was always something dirty, something to fight over. When we got a sudden influx of cash because of some settlements, money = my dad drinking more, getting more violent.
    When I was small my dad would love to buy expensive gifts for all of us, not in a ‘break the budget’ way, but in a careful, thoughtful way. Whatever he bought, was the perfect fit, the perfect color, the perfect item. And to this day, mom my is still having fits over the $25 outfit he bought for me when I was a toddler (in the 70’s), although she spends ridiculous amounts of money on home shopping stuff and casinos (small scale hoarder). Jealousy.
    So money has been full of secrecies and unpleasantries and contradictions in my world.
    I would so love to hear more about…how it works for other people who have a better relationship with it!

  19.  #19Silver-Tongued Siren on March 13, 2015 at 9:57 am

    (wrote this last night)
    I just feel like spending a while here.. I am absolutely exhausted, sleepy.. today is the first day in a bit that I didn’t work, and my sister and her husband and kids are visiting this week – I won’t see them again til August or later, so I wanted to spend time with them when they are around also.

    So I haven’t gotten much packing and moving things done. I have a house full of stuff. I have not been at home for a while, I am elsewhere and have gotten rid of a storage with no place to put it all..

    I am moving within 2 weeks, to a place not yet known or secured, and am moving all the belongings I can fit into my friend’s outdoor storage area.. I feel uncomfortable doing that because of my things being exposed to bugs and animals and weather, but I have no better option for now. I have also learned that I often try too hard to do the BEST or make the PERFECT decision or wait for just the RIGHT time, and I have learned that sometimes I just have to make *A* decision, and get things done faster, and I can always come back and change them.
    MILW & I’s trailer got stolen, and with arranging childcare and finding anyone who can help me move a lot of heavy boxes and HEAVY furniture so far, before the end of the month, (AND trying to move, in a place where rent and availability is inflated and scarce, while I also have no money), seems very overwhelming. I did negotiate a raise with one of my clients, however, which will help a little!

    I have not been home for a while now, and MILW (my very long term partner and children’s other dad) and I have not slept together for a while now, due to his behavior from current bipolar episode, and my being away from home). I have also been helping a relative who needed constant care, but they have passed away several months ago. So I had a temporary space there that I could go to, which I am now leaving.

    Avocado said he “doesn’t know how he feels” about getting a place together. He said I could stay with him (in his apartment with a roommate). I told him I feel hesitant unless we’re really going to DO this together. (be together). And if we are, I will not turn down small beginnings, but I feel it would be better to have our own place. Neither of us can afford much right now.
    He also seems hesitant, relationship wise – despite getting closer and closer to me, — even despite me saying earlier (before I was having to move) “let’s make a home together”, and telling him I want to be with a partner who wants to be a partner all the time, and i’d like if that were him of course, that I’d like to really do this. …

    so he keeps getting closer and spending more time, and being open and vulnerable and MUCH different than the coldness that has happened during court a few years ago- much warmer, and we are also having sex. but still not fully moving forward – (not asking me to go places on the weekends,or else, (if I ask), agreeing to go, or saying maybe, and seeming like he wants to go, but not making a firm YES or confirming, or backing out at the last minute?…

    I know part of it must be because of a girl he had been seeing.. YET, he offered me to stay with him, – and if he cared that much about it jeapordizing that, he wouldn’t have offered it to me.

    I sense that he DOES like being around me, but he hasn’t fully cut it off with her.

    I sense that it’s possible he can’t find the heart to do it, and doesn’t want to be seen as the bad guy, and that since I NEED a place to stay, he can’t possibly not SUPPORT the mother of his child, so if there is any complaint, he is still the good guy and she is bad for suggesting anything otherwise.

    I sense that he WANTS this and this gives him a chance both to see HOW it will go with us, as well as a way out of that dating relationship, (without being the bad guy) when she gets angry about it.

    He did not say how long his lease/sublease is, how long I can stay, how much rent he would want me to pay, or anything like that.

    I am going to look at another place tomorrow, which is very tiny (but private, no roommate) and affordable. I am going to suggest we move there, (or a similar place if one comes up), or just stay in his apartment for a while until we can save up money for a better place.

    For the last week up until today I have been thinking I was pregnant with Avocado. (We already have one child together). I had not told him because I hadn’t gotten a test yet. I am not, as of today, but I am certain I was, as I was experiencing all the symptoms. My period was also late, and I am *never* late, always very exact. But, today, I finally started bleeding. I am sad, actually.

  20.  #20Silver-Tongued Siren on March 13, 2015 at 10:14 am

    So how to deal with this?:

    I feel like Avocado is stalling, not making firm decisions and being fully committed to me.

    We have been sleeping together for several weeks again, but haven’t had a discussion about it. He has continued to get closer and closer and more open, warm, vulnerable with me, but yet I sense hesitancy.

    So there are two situations where I feel that he is letting the circumstances make the decisions for him.

    1 – Sometimes he ignores me. This is his go-to tactic for just about anyone, when he doesn’t want to deal with them for whatever reason. Why is he ignoring me? I think it only happens when he is with someone else. (hiding that he is seeing me?).

    So I text to confirm plans he said maybe to, or to ask if he wants to come to a family event, or something, and he doesn’t answer. Sometimes for a few days.
    I KNOW that other women blow up at him about being ignored. I know that is what he expects. I don’t blow up at him. Instead I just STOP, say no more, until he gets back in touch with me. I never mention it. I feel I should, but I also feel this is part of why he’s gotten so open with me again, is that he feels safe that he can go crawl into his cave when he wants and I don’t jump down his throat about it, I go on with my happy life.

    However, I think that he does it expecting that
    a)I’ll continue to not say anything, which works for him, or
    b)I’ll blow up about it and that will make him feel like pushing away, or else I’ll push away – and then he has to make no decisions.

    Then the “living together” situation:

    I NEED a place to stay suddenly. I live in a high demand place and have no money due to circumstances currently. I asked how he feels about moving in, he said he doesn’t know how he feels. Later that week (after no prodding or asking from me), he said if I don’t find a place I can stay with him.

    *Knowing* this would upset anyone he may have been dating, he still offered this. and is still spending time with, having sex with me. clearly, we would sleep in the same bed, it’s a tiny place.

    Granted, I am not sure he is dating anyone, but I know he is spending time with someone he dated earlier this last year, who he left me to move forward with.

    I feel he is stalling, not wanting to make decisions, and letting the circumstances decide for him, again –
    By telling me I can stay with him,
    If anyone else gets upset about it, HE is just being the GOOD man, supporting his children’s mother. THEY would be the bad guy for being mad about his good hearted actions.

    On the other side, he gets to see if HE likes living together, and how things go with us. Without committing to getting a place together, because if he did that, it would be very clear to the other person that HE IS CHOOSING ME. This way, if we stay in his apartment, he can claim he couldn’t let us sleep on the streets.

    See where I’m going? This is what I’m sensing.

    How to inspire him to put both feet on one side of the fence??

  21.  #21Silver-Tongued Siren on March 13, 2015 at 10:21 am

    Currently, I am sure he’s ignoring me all last night because he’s with someone else – and he KNOWS I have plans today – because I texted him yesterday afternoon asking if he wants to spend time w my sister and her husband and kids, today – breakfast, go look at that place together, then take the kids a couple places and have lunch.

    No answer.
    I called and left a vm- no answer.
    it’s noon and normally he returns at 9-10.

    I feel that subconsciously he is scared, and so is subconsciously doing things that he knows are irritating, so I make the decisions for him!

    I am not feeding into this and getting mad.

    I am considering saying I feel sad when you ignore me, and I do, but DO I? Why sit around feeling sad because someone doesn’t do what I want all the time? Why would that affect me at all? Instead I would just go do what I want! I’m not sure telling him “I feel sad/irritated/when you ignore me/when you know I have plans etc, is a good thing to do!

    Also actions speak louder than words!

    What is the best way to handle this?

  22.  #22Silver-Tongued Siren on March 13, 2015 at 10:21 am

    Oh – FYI – he has our child and was supposed to return this morning, and my plans involve our child getting to do things with his cousins.

  23.  #23Silver-Tongued Siren on March 13, 2015 at 10:37 am

    We hadn’t agreed on a specific time, we just normally do around 9 or 10 unless he is going to work earlier.

    I called and left a lighthearted message, lighthearted and let’s see how he responds to it.

    I said “hey sexy! I am feeling ready to go have some fun, and wondering what time you guys are going to be here!! Ok! I’ll talk to you soon!”

    I am able to just relax and get other things done while I wait. I’m pretty happy in general. So, although I feel like it is inconsiderate and *maybe* he’s trying to irritate me, I can let him feel like I don’t even notice.

    I’m too busy being busy and happy

    I also have considered that these things may be him TESTING me. To SEE what I will do, if I will explode and get angry, or what. I feel that my even temperedness has gone a long way in helping bring us closer again.

    Anyone feel like their man has tested them, or created situations that would make the decisions for him?

  24.  #24Silver-Tongued Siren on March 13, 2015 at 10:46 am

    I really want to live together, even if it is in his current apartment. He has actually asked me to live together several times – and it has never yet happened (because I’ve turned it down in the past, for lack of feeling enough financial support and inability for me to get work in my field where he was living, or inability to even work while breastfeeding a child, etc).

    After I turned him down once, and got there “too late” once, his next offers were only when I needed them, where he offered me to stay with his mom, or to stay with him (but pay rent). The first two times he really wanted me to live with him.

    This is why I am willing to entertain the idea of living in his apartment because I “need” the help, even if he is testing the waters and not yet willing to make the move.

    I need to find a way though, to discuss only seeing/sleeping with each other.

    I believe if he thought I was spending time with other men, he would do the same and feel that was completely fair.

    I also wonder if he feels that because I NEED a place, I have less control over what he does, and have to just deal with whatever he does.

    I want to feel that I am treated with consideration and want to feel loved and wanted and taken care of.

    I don’t want to end up living together and him seeing another woman. I want to live together and spend our free time together, have dinner together, be a family.

    I have two weeks before I have to move, to secure a place, and have discussions with him…

  25.  #25Silver-Tongued Siren on March 13, 2015 at 11:14 am

    Okay, so my voicemail got a response.

    He didn’t respond about spending time with my family, but he said he and our child were going to play outside until they head out of town (he has to work an hour away for the next week).

    He didn’t show up because he thought it was his spring break to have our child, but it’s actually mine.

    The weird thing, is that he didn’t respond and sounds very hesitant to spend time with my family, (and he has to go out of town later this evening), YET, he said that he could stick around to go see the potential place I found to live in…..!??!??

    The rent there is a hundred more than the place he lives in, the only difference is it has no roommate, and probably no laundry. lol.

    I said I wished I could drive up so he could spend time with our child while he was working, but I have to stay here and move things too, … but then
    He asked if he could come down and take our son next thursday and the weekend (still part of spring break) to see his sister who is moving. I asked if I could go, too, and that he didn’t have to answer now, he could think about it. He said “… I guess we can talk about it.”

    I do not want to have “my day” or “your day”, I want to get rid of that right off the bat!

  26.  #26Liquid Light on March 13, 2015 at 11:26 am

    I just want to say how excited I am! I heard from M again, the separated guy I dated briefly last year, and we went out last night! I’m so excited, and we have a date lined up next week! Woohooooo!!!!

    I’m really starting to feel like I do “have it all”. My job is really stressful right now, but once this crazy deadline passes which will be soon, it will go back to normal…hopefully. And my love life may be falling into place too.

    WOW! Pinching myself! 🙂

  27.  #27Indigo on March 13, 2015 at 11:43 am

    Silver-Tongued Siren,

    Just a question because I’m not sure I understand your set-up, are you in an open relationship with Avocado? Or are you just casually dating both him and MILW? Or just hoping for something more serious with one of them?

    Do you let Avocado be the first to contact you most of the time, or do you initiate contact quite a bit?

    Sorry, just trying to get a bit more clear on your set-up.

  28.  #28Labbit on March 13, 2015 at 12:05 pm

    Silver-Tongued Siren,

    Looks like Indigo’s going to chime in here…I have some thoughts too. Firstly, I have been in a similar spot before with a man I really cared about, wanted to move the relationship forward with, where he kept hinting to me that he cared for me but his actions and words were both inconsistent at best. I realize how frustrating this can be and it sounds like you are handling it really well! Good on you for not losing your cool, and it seems like you intrinsically know that building positive moments with a man is the most important thing you can do in this spot.

    Something I have learned the hard way (over and over, if I’m being honest) is that men are actually very direct. When they want something, they go after it. They tell you straight out and they follow through with clear actions.

    It sounds to me like as you’ve said, he’s offering his place for you to stay in because you are the mother of his child and I think he cares for you a great deal. But I would not confuse this with being the same thing as giving a serious relationship a shot. If he wanted to try things out, if he wanted to take that next step, he would say exactly those words to you. “I want to give this relationship a shot. I want you to come live with me and we’ll see how things go…” and so on.

    The same concept applies to him spending time with your family. To me, the way he has pulled out of this in the past and the way he conveniently doesn’t answer these invitations now is a clear clue that he doesn’t want to hang out with your family, and because he cares about you he doesn’t want to hurt you by saying so. Spending time with a partner’s family is usually a pretty big deal for women on the relationship timeline, and I’m sure he knows this, so he’s not doing it because he doesn’t want you to get the wrong idea.

    OK, I know this might all sound negative but it’s really not. It’s actually very helpful in terms of helping you see where you stand. (At least I hope it is.) The fact that he still has you in his life and spends time with you is HUGE. I believe based on what you said here that there’s mutual attraction and that he enjoys dating you. He probably cares for you a great deal. But in terms of that next level, that serious forever level, it doesn’t sound like he’s there. And that is totally OK!! Knowing this gives YOU the power. Because now you can decide — do I want to take steps to see if this attraction is something we can build on? Do I want to circular date? Do I want to see what other men have to offer? Do I need to stop seeing Avocado for awhile until I can figure out what’s going on inside of me? All of these are fair questions that only you can answer.

    Personally, if I were in your shoes I would NOT live with him, if you have any other alternative. Living with him when you’re not in a serious relationship is a path to him seeing you as a child, a daughter he has to take care, an OBLIGATION rather than a lover, someone he takes pleasure in seeing and so on. I feel for you so deeply for whatever has put you in this situation but if you can, for your own sake and for the relationship’s sake, if you can find somewhere else to live that’s your best path…

    (more to come)

  29.  #29Labbit on March 13, 2015 at 12:15 pm

    Silver-Tongued Siren (continued),

    Now as far as the relationship goes, any energy that you’re spending right now on what he’s thinking or what his actions mean or don’t mean and trying to decipher meaning out of what he’s saying…STOP. ANY energy you use to do this is WAY TOO MUCH. If your goal is to be the feminine-energy partner then it’s not your job to think about what he’s doing or concern yourself with his feelings at all.

    Your only task as the feminine-energy partner is to take care of YOU. A woman who takes care of herself, who concerns herself with her happiness and her pleasure, this is what attracts a man deeply.

    I am not suggesting that you need to stop seeing him (which wouldn’t be possible since you have a child together) or spending time together or anything like that. What I am suggesting is that it would help you greatly if you can change your perspective and put your focus on yourself and your children rather than him. I know this sounds rude in a way — forget about him altogether?!? — but it WORKS.

    Along with focusing on yourself and building your self-sufficiency comes building your self-confidence. The higher that self-confidence gets, the easier it will become to ask him to do things for you, and asking him to do things for you the right way is another step in building deep attraction in him. He will take great pleasure in helping you, it will build up his ego, and he will associate those good feelings with YOU and want to do more for you.

    I can’t promise you that this man will fall deeply in love with you but taking steps like these are a win-win for you. You either compel him to win you over or you will attract an even better man. Not so bad, right?

    This is stuff I’ve learned through a combination of Rori’s archives and a few of Rori’s certified coaches. Here are a few that I’ve visited and really liked:
    — Leigha Lake http://leighalake.com/ — fantastic articles on what to do when your man is pulling away, as well as ways to build your self-confidence
    — Helena Hart http://helenahartcoaching.com/ — this site is where I learned the traits inside of me that I already HAVE but wasn’t using right to draw a man to me so that he’ll never want to let me go
    — Stephanie Turner http://stephanieturnercoaching.com/ — this site is great if your man is either stalling or pulling away, lots of fabulous suggestions for what to do FOR YOU in these scenarios.

    I think most of these coaches offer a free intro session — perhaps this could help you as well? I have been working with Dominique of http://sexandheart.com/ for months now and she has helped me transform my relationship into the best thing to happen to both me and TenderCD. 🙂

  30.  #30Labbit on March 13, 2015 at 12:24 pm

    One more thing I forgot to mention. I have learned, and this was a tough lesson for me to understand but now that I get it, it changed EVERYTHING for me.

    You cannot make man want to commit to you by talking to him, or telling him how much you love and care for him, by doting on him or taking care of him, via great sex or making it easy for him.

    You can only INSPIRE him to want to commit to you. And the way you do this is by focusing on yourself, by filling your own life up with things and people that make you happy, so that you can be totally relaxed and carefree around him and accept him as he is no matter what’s going on.

  31.  #31Beloved on March 13, 2015 at 12:42 pm

    Labbit, brilliant. Just brilliant. I appreciate how well you articulate things I “get” at a visceral level but don’t always have the ability to verbalize.

  32.  #32Liquid Light on March 13, 2015 at 1:05 pm

    He was trying to impress me the whole time on our date 🙂

    And he did! 🙂

  33.  #33Gemini Goddess on March 13, 2015 at 1:14 pm

    What – in your personal experience and the experiences of your friends and family – do you see as the biggest problem around being successful at work, and still having a great love life?

    My mom was/is a very traditional southern military wife in that her job was supporting my father career. She did an excellent job, and her dream for me was to follow in her footsteps. Without malice, but to that end, feminine seeming traits and activities were encouraged (cheerleading, charm-school, playing flute, being a Flight Attendant, and stay-home-mom). Masculine seeming traits and activities were not (High School MVP for basketball and track, college track and ski team, earning my private pilots’ license, running a marathon, having a career). The net result is I can’t decide if I’m a natural “Type B” who can’t own it, or a frustrated “Type A”.

    I’m not certain exactly how this affects my love life. I feel embarrassed and confused which is undesirable, but we’ve been able to discuss this, thus turning it into a bonding topic.

    I can say that I really dislike not being able to afford more things for myself. I feel (and totally self-imposed) somewhat at the “mercy” of what D wants to spend money on. He does NOT make me feel this way. He is very generous. It’s all me, and it feels aweful.

    How has work, business, earning a living, and being successful gotten in the way of your love life?

    When I was a Flight Attendant it was GREAT for my love life. I was gone for days, and off having my own experiences around the world. It was a natural “lean-back”.

    How has a man gotten in the way of your success at work?

    I was propositioned and harassed a couple times in office jobs when I was younger. I don’t think I’d put up with that now.

    Do you ever feel worried that being successful in business will intimidate men and wreck your love life – so you stop yourself in business before you even start…?

    I haven’t had that challenge. I have felt more intelligent, and when I was younger would minimize myself. It took some awareness and some work, but I don’t do that anymore.

    Do you feel more like a man at work than like a “girl” and find it icky..?

    I would like a more creative and human contact job, but I think I’m getting into the actual job task rather than how being good at it would feel.

    (Or – if you LOVE taking charge, being independent, working at all hours hard as you like, making good money and – then find yourself frustrated with men…)

    Hasn’t come up for me, but I think having a career I felt enthusiastic and passionate about would feel very “leaned back” and empowering to me.

    Let me know if love and money seem like opposites to you..

    It would be shocking if I ever approached Ds income. I made more than my ex and felt very resentful, but that was more about being in the masculine position in the relationship in general.

    Let me know how you really feel, down deep, about the possibility of Having It All – work AND love?

    I totally believe it’s possible.

    Also – please let me know if I can use your answers in my new ebook – The Business Siren Handbook


  34.  #34ruth on March 13, 2015 at 1:42 pm

    For me a successful career has utterly castrated my love life
    I was brough up to be an independent carrer woman, and thats what i did, becomign a highly successful medical specialist in a mans world
    I had to fight all the way.i chose not to have kids, and while i am totally comfortable with that decision, i dont think the whole thing did my marriage any favours
    The misogyny and blatant sexism I encounter at work is horrific.
    I have to operate in masuline a LOT of the time, when actually my skills are in the feminine.
    Listening, supporting, empathising
    My patients love this.My (male) colleagies often riducle this or feel threatened by it
    I had to actually resign form one job because a particular colleague could not cope with my feminine and made my life an utter misery for three years
    I dont think you can have it all, no
    You have to make a choice

  35.  #35ruth on March 13, 2015 at 1:44 pm

    excuse my typos.I can actually spell!
    Ironically, ive now taken a step down the career ladder(work life balance, marathon running etc) and marrriage side of things is better
    But i feel frustrated at work
    As i say
    You make a choice

  36.  #36Femininewoman on March 13, 2015 at 2:57 pm

    Ruth is that you who used to post a while back? Gosh it feels good to see your pic!

  37.  #37ruth on March 13, 2015 at 3:04 pm

    Oh! Yes femininewoman, it is me who used to post.I have been lurking and not posting
    What a very lovely post to read.I feel very touched
    oh, I actually feel quite tearful.What a nice thing to say
    Than k you

  38.  #38Gemini Goddess on March 13, 2015 at 3:09 pm

    What a cathartic exercise that was.

    On the first (unpublished) draft last night, the NV’s totally took over the keyboard. I didn’t even realize I had some of those crappy thoughts until I read them. “Good bye NV’s. Fare thee well. Thanks, but into the ether with you, just a little bit.”

    My challenge was to distil down to the essence of each answer, and redefine. Now I’m noticing and gently refocusing the not so kind thoughts I’ve had about myself to something better feeling. Yay, more potential upside!

    For the record, I adore my mom (and dad). She did the best she could with what she thought was the right thing to do. I can’t fault her for that.

  39.  #39Kim on March 13, 2015 at 3:21 pm

    Ruth, I agree with you in most respects….I also find – and I have experienced this – when we are the ones with a stressful, long-hours career, having to manage employees etc, then we come home, late, exhausted, partner has an equally stressful job and expects the waif to greet him relaxed with a cup of tea, or better a meal etc. Wow, a lot if stress.
    I don’t aspire to be a career woman anymore….I would rather do my own thing and not get rich and successful but have more time…I also find that it is tough when you have to negotiate all day with employees or men above you, having to ‘prove’ yourself, coming home and being totally feminine and subordinate – like what curvy siren said…whoa, who manages that?
    IDK. It’s tough….I think today’s world although we have a lot of liberties, has brought a lot of stress for women. We are not only supposed to want to have it all, we are to a large extent also expected to ‘do it all’…have brilliant and well educated, well fed kids, excel in the job world, have a great marriage and fab sex every night..be a domestic goddess…have an amazingly trim hody…OMg just writing this totally exhausts me.
    When did we buy into this complete nonsense that we can be all this?
    And have. Smile on our face also?
    Me, for one, I am saying goodbye to that scenario lol

  40.  #40Kim on March 13, 2015 at 3:29 pm

    In other news, I gave my guy plenty of space this week. I wasn’t happy about the weekend and I was leaning so far back – because I was busy and felt annoyed and so on, not really trying – that he sprung back like a bouncy rubber band….said that this would never happen again…that he misses me and loves me and wants a future with me.
    Would I please see him this weekend.
    Of course I will.
    I missed him too but I am not being messed about with plans and I think this is part of my boundaries, which he has stomped on a few times already…I didn’t care whether he would bounce back or not..
    And it works every time.
    If we don’t expend energy obsessing and chasig and pleading, a man feels safe and comes back, provided he wants relationship and he loves.
    I can work with this. I have to work on myself too, for me it is great to see he is prepared to work also.
    No matter about the other issues, I know here is a man if we were decided to go thia forever route, who would fight for the relationship, who would even go to counselling if I wanted it.
    That’s worth a lot to me…
    A heck of a lot.
    I have not met anyone like that in nearly 10 years, so…

  41.  #41Kim on March 13, 2015 at 3:33 pm

    I have to remember also..a man can’t be everything….I have a few outings lined up, yachting etc, without him now, and I think it will do a lot for both of our equilibrium.
    He has time to do nothing…I have time to get my energy out….I feel so much happier already.

  42.  #42Posie on March 13, 2015 at 6:06 pm

    Hello Sirens! A big learning has taken me over in the last week or so. A boy (JAF) who I had started to open up to a tiny bit with in the last few weeks started leaning in pretty hard in the last week. So hard actually, that it feels a little smothering and needy. Lots of texts, not really waiting for me to respond to them in between, and once when I didn’t answer for a few hours he actually sent me a text saying: “I think that’s called ignoring :)” wow! That felt super YUCKY. And now whenever I get a text from him, even if it doesn’t say anything particularly needy, it just feels so demanding that I don’t even want to respond. And that’s when I got it. This is exactly how men must feel when we lean in like that. It’s about the energy we’re putting out, not even about what we are actually doing. And it pushes. It literally feels like JAF is pushing me away with his energy and I feel like I want to turn my head and look somewhere else because it is just toooo much. It’s not the stuff he’s saying, it’s all the insecurity hiding underneath.
    I suddenly feel keenly aware of how I might have been doing that to my hot and cold BCF. Even if I wasn’t drowning him in text and emails, he must have been able to feel that subtle desperation when he did come close. I know exactly the kind of energy to let go of now.

    And the most very revealing thing is that I liked JAF just fine. But then he starting pushing and it has become hard to be around that energy of his even if I wanted to be around him! I’m not backing up because I don’t enjoy him…. I’m backing up because he’s not enjoying himself… Or us.

    With every text he sends now, it’s like a resonating clarity for me about who I am and will be. And I won’t be that energy again. Not now that I know exactly what it looks like.
    Thought I’d post. Maybe that rings true for someone else?

  43.  #43Sophie on March 13, 2015 at 7:23 pm

    I haven’t read anyone’s comments yet so will go back in a minute. Just wanted to comment on Rori’s post.

    For me love and money, or love and work go hand in hand and it is always about how much I value myself. What I believe my work is worth is what I attract. What I’ll accept is what I get. When I exercise boundaries and raise my degree of difficulty it is reflected in what I am offered in my work – I have to be open to receiving it. Likewise with men.

    Still, I have also let men be a drain on my ‘work’ resources. Put them (and the good feelings I feel from their presence) before my need to be working, or before pushing for my ambitions. I guess in that way it is a lesson balancing the need (in me) to exercise both feminine and masculine energy and as always, to be self-disciplined in putting the focus on me more. I am learning to overfunction less and receive more…this is one of my most entrenched patterns of behaviour.

  44.  #44Sophie on March 13, 2015 at 7:34 pm

    From the last post – thank you lovetodance, Azure Blu and Labbitt (and anyone else) for your comments to me.

    Navigating change in myself is like walking a type-rope!

    I did go out and I did allow myself to receive from (what shall I call him) confused CD 🙂 but I over-functioned a teeny bit…such a fine-line. I don’t know how open I am to other men when I am a little bit close to one – even when that one is not ‘committed’ to me. Anyway, I went out. I danced. I got a lot of attention from men. I enjoyed myself. Confused CD would’ve left without me (I suspect) had I not had another man in strong pursuit (who was potentially unsafe) and I didn’t want to travel home alone. He stayed. It felt nice. We kissed but not much. It was companionship. He said he’d communicate yesterday – he didn’t. I felt a bit confused and disappointed but a bit relieved and like I need space and process time anyway – I can not get invested in this person. AND I can not do his thinking for him – stuff for him is well complicated right now and I DO NOT want to be in the middle of any drama, or as I said before be the one giving more. I have to learn to receive. I have to stop over-functioning. period. Work helps with this but you know, I have absolutely no desire to do any ha ha ha None – no motivation what so ever! I feel like resting and sleeping and playing and dancing and swimming and lying on the beach and meeting new people and riding on motorbikes and not having to push these men into helping me meet my needs. Okay, today I’mnot doing a single bit of overfunctioning. I am relaxing back into being, being me. I fell asleep last night pulling all my energies back into me and focusing on being the prize.

  45.  #45Sophie on March 13, 2015 at 7:39 pm

    Labbit – 3 – yes this resonated with me – the feeling that for anything to happen you have to ‘make it happen’ – the best work i’ve received has been work that I have literally received (not pushed for) – but, I’m still playing with this, there has to be (for me) I think a balance between putting in the action (male energy even if it’s just baby steps to build momentum and prove commitment and intention) and then letting go and being open to receive.

  46.  #46Sophie on March 13, 2015 at 7:46 pm

    lovetodance – last post – it feels so good to hear you say you KNOW how beautiful you are 🙂 me too x that feeling feels good xx

  47.  #47Linda on March 13, 2015 at 8:36 pm

    I got such good sleep last night. It is amazing how much that helps my ability to deal with life. I have spent to much time in my life giving to others and really to myself. Not speaking my feelings and stuffing them and being unaware of what I was even feeling.

    Even though my there is so much not going like I would want right now at least I know what I am feeling, am able and willing to express myself about it. Authenticity feels so much better than hiding.

    Today I found the ability to verbalize what I wanted and needed to someone that I feel open to exploring the possibility of a relationship. I said what I needed to say and some of it made tears roll down my cheeks. I was authentic. I feel victorious tonight. I what will happen I do know what I will and wont do.

    I dont feel wishy washy or second guessing. That feels powerful and well inside.

  48.  #48Linda on March 13, 2015 at 8:39 pm

    I meant to say.. I dont know what will happen but I do know what I will and wont do. typos and skipping words sheesh!

  49.  #49Olympia on March 13, 2015 at 8:42 pm

    How has work, business, earning a living, and being successful gotten in the way of your love life?
    – I actually have never felt like business has interfered with my love life.

    How has a man gotten in the way of your success at work?
    – I was in an emotionally abusive relationship and he used to text me all day and then we would fight during the work day. I just remember pacing the hallway or sitting in the stairwell on my cellphone. What a nightmare.

    Do you ever feel worried that being successful in business will intimidate men and wreck your love life – so you stop yourself in business before you even start…?
    – It didn’t stop me, but I did make more money than my last boyfriend and I felt a little self conscious of it because he was working much harder than me.

    Do the men you meet make you feel “unfeminine” for being so good at business?
    – I don’t think I’m that good at business, so no. Ironically, my boyfriend jokes about me making 6 figures so that he can stay at home. When I respond by saying that he is welcome to stay at home if he is raising our future kids that always puts an end to the joke, even though he’s the one who suggested non-traditional gender roles to start with.

    Do you feel more like a man at work than like a “girl” and find it icky..?
    – Actually, I tried to be in my girl energy at work because my boss was a southern gentleman and responded well to it. That felt a little icky sometimes because I felt manipulative, using the “tools” on him to get what I wanted at work.

    (Or – if you LOVE taking charge, being independent, working at all hours hard as you like, making good money and – then find yourself frustrated with men…)

    Let me know if love and money seem like opposites to you..
    Hmmm…my abusive ex was by far the wealthiest person I have dated, sometimes I miss the luxury, but I would gladly trade real love for that any day of the week. On the other hand, money was tight during a lot of my childhood and it seemed like there was no affection between my parents during those times. I want a relationship where stress about money doesn’t interfere with the quality of the relationship.

    Let me know how you really feel, down deep, about the possibility of Having It All – work AND love?
    I would love to have it all, but I don’t know if it is possible. My current partner has an established job, and when I finish my degree, I really should look at jobs nationwide to get the best possible start to my career, but I am not willing to give up love since he cannot relocate at this time.

    If there’s one thing that stands out for you, that’s making “Having It All” seem impossible for you – please let me know the details!
    -Oddly, the thing that stands out for me is not the relationship side of things. I feel like I have a handle on talking and interacting with men. I don’t know how to develop female friendships at work, I just don’t feel like I fit in with other women at all, and I feel like that holds me back in the workplace.

    Also – please let me know if I can use your answers in my new ebook – The Business Siren Handbook…(I’ll use whatever name you ask me to use…) yes, but if you do use my answers, please notify me.

  50.  #50Emerson on March 13, 2015 at 9:38 pm

    I feel a little unbalanced and stressed out.
    I also feel resentful when I try to strike up a conversation with someone and they are not friendly in return, especially when it’s a merchant and I’m a customer. It’s just rude. How can I release myself from this and not let it affect me?
    Especially when I’m feeling sensitive….I just feel so needy for people to be “nice” to me….

    I know I have a lot of room for improvement.
    I feel hopeless.
    I feel sad.
    I feel falling on the floor totally surrendered and giving up.
    I feel incapable.
    I feel thankful.
    I feel compassion for myself.
    I feel angry.
    I feel incompetent and questioning myself.
    I feel hopeful.
    I feel shame.
    I feel scared.
    I feel capable.
    I feel loved.

  51.  #51Emerson on March 13, 2015 at 9:46 pm

    REcycledCD came up in conversation last night with a friend. and I was talking about him and I am not really sure why….
    but my friend made a comment that I was “pining” over him…and I felt very defensive, deflated and almost tearful when she said that…she was not trying to hurt me…but maybe it was partly true so that’s why it hurt…I said “Oh no I am not!”…and she clarified it was not meant to be negative….
    I know that but it made me feel all the more longing for him in the sense that I’ve yet to meet someone I feel comfortable with since things ended with him for good…(I ended it)…
    He is toxic for me so I have let him go…
    I don’t reply when he contacts me, which for me is HUGE.
    I don’t know why I haven’t met anyone else.
    I know it’s ‘my fault’ for ‘not attracting’ someone who is a ‘match’ because i need to ‘work on myself’ and maybe i haven’t ‘tried hard enough’….
    this is the dialogue I’ve been having with myself…
    I’d like to flip it if possible…any comments welcome..

  52.  #52Sophie on March 14, 2015 at 12:04 am

    argh how do you deal with it when a man is not doing what he says or when what he says is ambiguous – i don’t know how to script 🙁 in one message the other day confused cd suggested going out friday or whenever, friday was a bad idea so he said going out saturday would be perfect – now its saturday and he’s doing something else. I have to reply to the message …ugh. How do I feel?…

    I feel number one distance myself from him he is not doing what he says he’ll do eg contact me yesterday, arrange to spend time with me today

    But with words I don’t know what to say. I don’t know how to find the balance between understanding he can do whatever he wants and I don’t want to be messed about. I feel disappointed at his choice to do something other than spend time with me, but then that tells me what I need to know. How much or how little to express? argh xxx

  53.  #53Sophie on March 14, 2015 at 12:08 am

    I really need reliable people around me right now and he was one of the most reliable – at least as in inviting me places…now I just feel sad and disappointed…again…

  54.  #54Indigo on March 14, 2015 at 3:35 am

    Silver-Tongued Siren,

    I really like Labbit’s suggestions to you. As usual, she is very wise.

    I can also thoroughly recommend both Leigha Lake’s and Dominique’s work and websites for reconnecting your relationship, if that is what you are wanting to do.

    I only wanted to add that I see a lot of tendency to leaning forward in what you have written in your posts, in contacting him, trying to coax him to participate in family activities or doing things with you. You need to know that this strategy is limitedly effective at best. Men can’t really be convinced this way (trust me, I tried for years and it just doesn’t work). The way they become convinced is when their energy is constantly coming towards you. This builds up momentum which keeps them coming forward of their OWN initiative and drive.

    Also trying to figure out his motives, feelings and thoughts… this is not our business and will land you in a rather yucky feeling place. If he is ignoring you or not responding/contacting you… this is a sign that your energy is way over in his space. Pull it back to you. If he is ignoring you, nothing more needs to be said on the matter, turn away from him. Make yourself feel so good and happy that when he does come towards you again, you can turn lovingly and softly back to him. That’s all you need to do.

  55.  #55Kim on March 14, 2015 at 5:23 am

    Sophie, I had a similar problem with my longer term relationship man last weekend. If it was just a casual date, I would drop it, make plans plans plans, and see when he makes a firm plan, date and time and then I will meet him.
    I find not keeping to plans or being unreliable extremely triggering, as I used to be available if I was ‘into’ a man and then cancel everything else and at the end of the day, they can sniff it out that we haven’t got much value/good boundaries placed on ourselves and once they know we will jump when they call at short notice, it will happen time and time again.
    Make him work for it, if he doesn’t then you have your answer.
    What did I do?
    I retracted and let him know I was disappointed by changed plans. I also let him know that this was the last time I would sit home waiting to be informed what was happening, and that next time his sister is around or he had planned something with his friends and me and they could not agree on the timing/day (as has happened before), I would make alternative plans.
    I didn’t see him a whole week. I was ‘busy’ and busy.
    He called, texted etc…I answered maybe half of that, probably not even because I didn’t feel like it, not a strategy.
    In the end, he begged me to see him, offered to cook for me and said that he can promise me that what happened that weekend will never happen again.
    In your case I would only say something if he asks you..then I might say ‘I feel disappointed, I was so happy to get to see you, and it doesn’t feel great to me when plans get cancelled or delayed at the very last minute. It would feel better to make and stick to a a date in advance.
    What do you think?
    There will be plenty of guys who get this…during the week of ‘quiet’ , I had guys contacting me making dates a week or more in advance…men know that we don’t sit around twiddling oir thumbs for them, or shouldn’t anyway…

  56.  #56Kim on March 14, 2015 at 5:29 am

    Heck, even unavailable men get this lol. MrP has been in contact again…and I responded finally after waiting a month because I didn’t feel like it. He tried to book me two weeks in advance for boating…lol….and he is not even abke to have a full-on relationship.
    Imagine, this man used to call me in the morning to ask if I was avaiabke for lunch … They learn!
    Same with Boston…I got him from making dates two hours in advance (I declined them all), to a day and in the end three days in advance. He was shocked that I curbed his spontaneity lol…he was used to women falling all over him at a minute’s notice (successful and witty biz man). Not me.
    That’s what drives them on even more, remember they want to win you.. 😉
    I don’t think i am going boating btw…lol

  57.  #57Sophie on March 14, 2015 at 5:42 am

    Thanks Kim – I did tell him I was disappointed. He told me his reasoning and said we could do it anytime. I didn’t respond to that. He invited me to join them tonight. I said I wasn’t feeling it. He asked if I was okay. I said probably. Ha ha That is the truth – i probably am – I feel s”””tty today but I expect i’ll feel better tomorrow – who knows. I didn’t do the whole making plans script – yeah perhaps I should have. I was too busy thinking that he was showing me himself with his actions to bother. I don’t know. I shut down and yes, he knows I have and he wants to know why…and yes that demonstrates a caringness and maybe I have been wrong to not be honest, honest, honest. I always feel so confused! I don’t want to be like expectation and pressure but I also don’t want to feel disappointed and let down to someone who owes me nothing – I wanted him to show me in his actions but thenhe doesn’t know what does and does not make me happy so I have to tell him right? Seeeee I feel confused. And I have made myself feel miserable xxx

  58.  #58Sophie on March 14, 2015 at 5:43 am

    But yes, there’s no jumping up when the whim suits him …I will make my availability point then perhaps….

  59.  #59Sophie on March 14, 2015 at 5:49 am

    Thanks Kim – I did tell him I was disappointed. He told me his reasoning and said we could do it anytime. I didn’t respond to that. He invited me to join them tonight. I said I wasn’t feeling it. He asked if I was okay. I said probably. Ha ha That is the truth – i probably am – I feel s”””tty today but I expect i’ll feel better tomorrow – who knows. I didn’t do the whole making plans script – yeah perhaps I should have. I was too busy thinking that he was showing me himself with his actions to bother. I don’t know. I shut down and yes, he knows I have and he wants to know why…and yes that demonstrates a caringness and maybe I have been wrong to not be honest, honest, honest. I always feel so confused! I don’t want to be like expectation and pressure but I also don’t want to feel disappointed and let down to someone who owes me nothing – I wanted him to show me in his actions but thenhe doesn’t know what does and does not make me happy so I have to tell him right? Seeeee I feel confused. And I have made myself feel miserable xxx

  60.  #60Kim on March 14, 2015 at 5:54 am

    Sophie, do you CD?
    That might be your answer.

  61.  #61Sophie on March 14, 2015 at 5:55 am

    But yes, there’s not going to be any jumping up when the whim suits him …I there will be a lot of business will make my availability point then perhaps….

    Thinking about it, his bike offer happened after i’d got another man driving me around

    i’m feeling anger today

    I didn’t know but I walked on the beach and then I shouted (cos there was noone around) I am so f’ing angry at feeling let down and disappointed and people not doing what they say they will, or putting me first, or wanting to make the effort to be with me

    grrrrrrr I didn’t know that anger was there

    It’s really unhelpful to me not having my therapist because I often don’t know that anger is there and she moves me through it until I cry which is what I need because really it’s grief because I feel unloved and uncared for and unwanted – I don’t know how move through that anger to grief by myself 🙁 It took me today to even know that anger was there (gift I suppose) but now what to do with it…keep being honest about my feelings…(when I finally identify them) but then, that’s maybe too intense for some situations – I feel sad I don’t know the answers.

    I feel really appreciative of your help xxxx

  62.  #62Sophie on March 14, 2015 at 6:28 am

    in fact its lifted my mood – dressed up and going out to a bar where the people are loving and the music uplifting xxx thank you sirens x (ps floaty black red rose print scoop neck gypsy dress) thanks you for being here sirens and blog xxx

  63.  #63Bopa on March 14, 2015 at 7:09 am

    There is nothing holding me back unless I count my definitions of “it all”. I could say I feel very icky thinking of being “in charge” and go go go. Ideally I would like to mostly support myself financially in personal creative endeavors. Support myself financially looks like meeting basic needs for food, clothing, housing, transportation, reasonable amounts of travel experience, minimal entertainment (as my entertainment is gleaned from my creative endeavors-self fulfilling). I also like the idea of keeping my day job. Which is low demand, I control my hours and pays decently. I feel exactly zero ambition to earn more than I need.
    I suppose I can confidently say (as before) that all that is holding me back (if I call it that) is practice, and refinement.
    Except that it’s not holding me back. I am practicing and refining and enjoying.

  64.  #64Bopa on March 14, 2015 at 7:16 am

    I have never been an urgent nor an ambitious person.
    I have had many other peoples voices in my head telling me I should be. I have tried to be. That was fun…In its own way :p but not sustainable in tandem with a centered and content personal experience.

  65.  #65Indigo on March 14, 2015 at 8:54 am


    I feel resonant with what you are saying.

    I am not ambitious. I long to feel fulfilled by and very good at my work, to be appreciated and praised and feel calmly competent. In terms of money I only wish to be comfortable. I have always pictured having a husband who earns a lot more than me who is happy in the role of provider whilst I contribute, definitely contribute, but in a lesser way.

  66.  #66Linda on March 14, 2015 at 1:11 pm

    Thank you for your posts Labbitt. A very good reminder to me that in many ways. Reading your posts and some that followed by others I realized that even though I know better I had gotten tripped up and fallen into thinking waaay to much about him trap. I was trying to figure him out, what was really going on and it did leave me feeling utterly crazy.

    Yesterday I posted that I said what I needed to say and how personally victorious feeing that was. Over the evening when I tried to sleep but I tossed and turned and I was quite restless. This morning I found myself replaying the conversation and listening almost as a third party observer. I caught some points that I missed when the actual conversation took place. Bottom line….some things he said to me and was asking me to allow was just NOT okay with me and NOT what I want in my life. If I had not done my personal work, if I had not learned how to take really good care of myself and not spent time really discovering what I want then I would have given my power away and tried to siren my way thru it. Wow how clear that investment of energy in myself has made me . It was not long until I had my answer to my inner turmoil. I set aside all the the beautiful words and loving gestures and looked at the black and white of what he said to me and it simply was not okay with me. Sooo this is what I communicated….

    “I have thought more about our short conversation a lot and I must admit that I do not understand why you would so diligently indicate that you wanted me in your life if you were not ready to act upon it.”

    “Opening my heart was a really big decision for me to make and I weighed all your words and my feelings very carefully before I did.”

    “The most important thing I want to say is for me personally, the last thing I need is distance right now and there has never been a more crucial time for being unguarded and investing emotionally in each other if building a fulfilling relationship with a future is the goal.”

    “You asked me for patience but for what? For you to believe or decided something or see if I do or dont do something? I am sorry but I cannot bare the thought of the anxiety that would cause therefore I do not have it to offer you. I would be pretending it’s ok when it is not. It feels painful to have you move in so close, be so affectionate, speaking of things with a future and then pull away.”

    “If this is where you are and what you need its ok, but it is not something I can do with you. I ask you to either step in and make this real for us or please step out.”

    “This is as honest as I can be. I hope that you find your hearts direction with all of mine”.


    I would have never been able to communicate any of this without first knowing myself and that growth has come mostly from here.

    I do not know that he is thinking or feeling he has not communicated with me today. I do not know if he will but it matters not. However, what does matter is I know what I am thinking and feeling and I have said it clearly. If he steps in fully great. If not then great. Either way I will be okay.

  67.  #67Linda on March 14, 2015 at 1:24 pm

    I will say add that I did ask him yesterday if he was involved with someone else to which he said no. He knows that if he was hiding something it would eventually be revealed. anyway..

    I want a man to bring me his BEST. That would feel sooo wonderful.

  68.  #68Linda on March 14, 2015 at 1:44 pm

    I will admit that I have felt anger about his pursuing me and then when I really open up , he pulled back. Actually along with anger I feel I misled and lied to. After all that pursuing to go to flipping the script…saying he is being cautious and wanted to go slow and see how it goes!? I was not prepared for that and I certainly do not want I to be tested because that feels awful to me.

    More lessons to learn I guess. Absolutely nothing surprises me anymore!

  69.  #69Linda on March 14, 2015 at 3:52 pm

    Now that I have said what I needed to say . Now that that is done I have all these other emotions. I feel loss. It is sad to accept that someone who has never willingly confessed that they loved me and always will, really just doesn’t. Its quite sobering and I feel sick at my stomach actually.

  70.  #70Femininewoman on March 14, 2015 at 4:27 pm

    Linda who is it you are writing about?

  71.  #71Lovergirl on March 14, 2015 at 6:06 pm

    Today S called and asked me to go shopping with him. I agreed, even though it was like only an hour in advance. I hardly ever say no to him, and maybe I should, but I really wanted to see him. I’ve been missing him a lot.

    Before he called, I actually had been feeling angry and abandoned again. I woke up feeling hurt that he hasn’t wanted to see me. I actively had to work on putting it out of my mind.

    Then he called and all the bad feelings just melted away. The shopping was for work purposes, but nothing I needed to be there for. He just wanted my company and he took me out for lunch at Chili’s.

    We didn’t hug or touch each other but we talked and played around and he teased me, like usual. He paid for lunch and drinks, even though he joked about docking my pay. He does that a lot, will do something nice for me, then downplay it. Like he has taken me out to nice restaurants and when I thank him he will say something like “oh, you were just tagging along”.

    I tried to remember to lean back. Caught myself leaning physically forward a few times and deliberately leaned back a bit. He was digging around trying to get info about what I have been up to, indirectly, but I didn’t give any clues.

    Right after we parted ways, (we met at a store near my house and he drove me with him everywhere after that) I texted him “Thank you S. It felt good to hang out with you on this beautiful day and my margaritas were awesome ;). Have a lovely weekend.” He replied ” I was just thinking the exact same thing. Thanks for coming with me and I really enjoyed your company 🙂 :)”. (yes he put the emoticons in there 😉 )

    I really do always enjoy spending time with him. Even when we are doing the kind of boring shopping we were doing today, we always manage to have fun. Even with his faults, I really would prefer him to any other man at this point. I went to the grocery store after that and was just all smiles. Sigh…

  72.  #72Gemini Goddess on March 14, 2015 at 6:25 pm

    What I Did Differently Than Last Time (and got a WAY better result)

    Two weeks ago was my sad night when we took the ferry to the city, and I had a trigger fest starting with D being late to fetch me from work. The Universe, in her infinite wisdom, gave me the opportunity for a “do-over”, and it was not lost on me.

    This time, waiting for D to pick me up, knowing he’s coming from a day of meetings, and just knew also that he’d be late because at this point even if he could be on time, I’d energetically created a stale mate. So…

    At 5:15, our prescribed time, when I hadn’t gotten “I’m on the bridge call”, nor an “I’m running late” call, I left. Interestingly, I was annoyed in an observing kind of way, but truly was not angry. I knew it was coming. I figured I didn’t want to (A) sit in my office after hours stewing again. That was un-fun. So I (B) left, and went into town where the ferry terminal is along with lots of cute shops (We call them “trophy wife hobby shops”. I’m sure you know the kind).

    When he did call to tell me he was late, I said “Oh, no problem. I’m already downtown.” To which he replied “Oh…okay…well, where should I meet you?” I told him I didn’t know yet, but would let him know.

    I admit I was actively trying to find a good “lean back” spot. I didn’t want to just wait at the terminal. That felt like more “waiting”. Yuck. Bar? No to that, too. I found a very fancy dress shop I’d always wanted to go into, but was always on my way somewhere else when I passed it. With our upcoming trip in mind I decided to fantasy shop. I texted him the name of the shop.

    While in there I caught myself looking at my watch a couple times, and tensing up…where is he?.. not wanting to try anything on to make us late… fretting about if he’d make it in time…fretting he’d be somehow upset I left without giving him a heads up…just fretting. When I caught those thoughts, I did exactly what I (underlined) wanted to do, which was take some sexy dresses to the fitting room. Besides, so WHAT if we miss the ferry. So WHAT if everything.

    I chatted with the sales lady. Told her about our trip, that I was waiting for D to catch the ferry, etc. She asked for his name in case I was in the fitting room, and if I’d like a glass of wine. YES, I realized. That is EXACTLY what I would like. Wine and dresses! I took a few in, we decided which one looked best, which I planned to accidentally have on when he showed up. (OK. Scheming, and not totally leaning back, but fun for me…so leaning back?)

    It was perfect. I was modeling the classiest, sexiest well-fitted, black and white sheath dress with a pair of black sling-back heels, wine in hand, and a circle of women around me “oo”ing and “ah”ing when he walked in. HUGE smile from the door. Eyes following me everywhere as he approached. And kiss. The women said “Oh, this must be D.” I was a celebrity! So awesome! I went to the fitting room and leisurely changed back into my going-out-in-the-city outfit, and we headed to the ferry.

    He kept looking at me on the walk over, telling me how proud he was when he walked in, knowing that I’m HIS woman. Ha ha!! A couple times he asked what size the dress was, and if I really liked it, and how great he thought I looked. It was great!

    WAY better result. Yay me. 🙂

  73.  #73Lovergirl on March 14, 2015 at 6:57 pm

    Gemini Goddess-

    PERFECT!! I absolutely love how you turned that situation around!! Very inspiring. 🙂

  74.  #74Femininewoman on March 14, 2015 at 7:21 pm

    GG how cool was that? Just the words one the page feel oozing with sensuality and sexuality. Bingo 🙂

    No stress no fuss. Just total relaxation.

  75.  #75Linda on March 14, 2015 at 7:40 pm

    I am talking about “P”. I have not seen him for 9 mos. he has contacted me several times and I but I finally agreed to let him take me out to dinner for my birthday in February. He was more charming than ever and has been so complimentary etc. He started texting me regularly and asking me to lunch flirting etc. He told me how sorry he was for all the things he did to hurt our relationship and how he would give anything for things to work between us.

    Maybe I should have just kept the door closed but I felt curious and my old feelings before things were bad were stirred.

  76.  #76IamHis on March 14, 2015 at 7:51 pm

    Feedback would feel great.

    Tim Tebow…or should I just call him Quarterback (QB?) I don’t know. He’s driving me crazy!

    So, his constant being around me has escalated into constantly accidentally touching me. He seriously makes it difficult for me to breathe I’m so attracted to him.

    So, the “accidental” touching started and then he like, started kind of bossing me around…which I feel so embarrassed to admit because I pride myself on being an independent, assertive woman…but oh…man. I loved it. The way he takes charge…I just melt. He asked me to do a bunch of tasks at work for him and I did them, because we’re supposed to help each other out anyway with how crazy it gets, but it felt good that he actually asked me to help him with several things. I had to follow him and watch him a couple of times since I’m new there, and I noticed him kind of shaking. and I shake too…because I’m weaker in the arms than I’d like to be…and because I feel nervous being the new person. His arms are…just fine. He was still shaking. He’s not new. He is a seasoned employee.

    So…he was trying to get my attention all day. and that felt really good, to be honest.

    but then the next time we worked together, it felt like he was ignoring me.

    I’ve had guys ignore me before. It usually happens at a crucial part in our relationship…you know, where we’ve been talking for a while, have been out together a few times, but we haven’t had “the talk.” I’ve never had “the talk.” I’ve never been in a defined boyfriend/girlfriend relationship. Something always gets screwed up and awkward, and it usually begins with the guy ignoring me and I’m left clueless. Also, I had no idea how to communicate my feelings before, and was very closed off emotionally.

    I’m a lot more open now, and in touch with my feelings than I was before. and here this gorgeous alpha male who I so don’t feel like has any reason to feel like he is losing his power with me…

    It feels like he’s ignoring me! AND IT’S MAKING ME CRAZY. He’s so tall that avoiding eye contact is easy for him. He didn’t say hi. He didn’t talk to me at all. but the accidental touching continues…

    every time he does it I kind of…I don’t know if it’s freezing or melting or forgetting how to breathe or what. But just being near him feels amazing.

    I ended up needing his help quite a bit since I’m still new, so I had to talk to him (and many others) about getting help.

    So…we communicated to some extent. When work was over, I said “Bye, QB. Thanks for all your help tonight.” He said something along the lines of “yeah, sure. Anytime. Have a good night.” Or something…

    One thing I’ve learned more recently than I would like to admit is to trust my feelings. Like, I instinctively knew something was off with one of my female coworkers and once I opened up the conversation I was right.

    There’s another guy I could be interested in. We met at a work function and he was the first person I saw and it was instant attraction for me…and I’m pretty sure I caught him staring at me several times.

    One day I was particularly happy, and I saw him walking towards me in the building and I just goofily without thinking said “What up, what up?!”

    and he smiled so big and laughed.

    Then, at lunch, he made real attempts to engage me in conversation, seeming extremely excited to be talking to me. It was really cute, but it felt surprising.

    I just leaned back and sat with my feelings. I felt really calm and really good.

    He was leaning so far forward toward me it felt a little scary.

    But…I feel a little out of control with QB. Out of control as in…I can’t wait to see him again and just be around him. It seriously feels so good just being around him. He’s such a take-charge, strong, silent, masculine prescense. I don’t know why I asked for feedback. I guess I don’t really need it.

    wait, yes I do. How do you handle the ignoring thing? Rori said something like…you just lean back and go about your business. That feels so difficult, since ignoring me is the number one thing a man can do to make me absolutely crazy! It feels way too early for him to be ignoring me. but I feel it. I’m not imagining it. WHY IS HE IGNORING ME.

    I shouldn’t care. I should go CD. The only CDing I like, to be honest, is just interacting and opening up about my feelings with every man I come in contact with. Actual dating just doesn’t always feel good, so why do it…except for the fact that oh yeah, I still feel scared of getting too close to men and letting them get too close to me….

    *big sigh*

  77.  #77lovetodance on March 14, 2015 at 10:14 pm

    i told him i didn’t want to be anybody’s girlfriend…i wanted to keep our connection…could we find a way to be clear and comfortable in that…

    he has lost the romantic tone and ramped up the sexual pursuit

    i feel drawn to exploring that with him and still want
    to be treated like the prize i am…he knows it has been a long time since i was in relationship….

    i feel we both are wanting and needing sexual relating…and i am confused about being involved that way and still wanting tenderness and vulnerability on both our parts…i feel he put his heart out there and i qualified what i could and couldn’t do…and now he is relating to me with less tenderness…..more just kinda a raw lets be real with this…and get primal…

    oh my…i am so trying to control this and protect myself…i have big considerations about him and yet he is the closest to my wanting to break out of my sexual anorexia thats crossed my path…and is available…

    i have very high school stuff coming up about not being ‘used’ and yet i would be doing this for me…

    seems so simple when reading others dilemma’s yet when this is happening with me…i am all ‘huh’….

    most importantly i want to be respected and valued and safe…

    i need to find out more about him before i even bring him to my house…no less into my body…..

  78.  #78Emerson on March 14, 2015 at 11:03 pm

    70 Gemini Goddess,
    Wow!! I loved reading this!!
    So fun and sounds like a beautiful dress…I love the visual you created, wine in hand!
    I feel inspired. 🙂

  79.  #79Emerson on March 14, 2015 at 11:05 pm

    I have noticed that two of my closest friends are in the ‘man bash’ mode….and expressing that they are somewhat ‘giving up’ on ever finding true love…they are angry and fed up with how men have treated them, which I can understand.
    I feel sad around this energy. I love my friends, but this feels ‘off’….I don’t want to believe that I have to “give up” too….
    I still feel a glimmer of hope…

  80.  #80Indigo on March 15, 2015 at 1:19 am

    Gemini Goddess,

    Yay! Isn’t it amazing how magical things can happen when we open ourselves up to doing things a different way? Sounded amazing! 🙂

  81.  #81Indigo on March 15, 2015 at 1:21 am

    Linda 64,

    I think your messages sounded amazing. Really coming from a very clear, strong yet calm and soft place. I thought they were perfect.

  82.  #82Indigo on March 15, 2015 at 1:50 am

    So, I spent the weekend at D’s house again (it’s Sunday morning here and I’ve just got home). He was really sweet, he made dinner on Friday night and last night, and took me out for breakfast yesterday morning. It was quite sweet because he planned and told me about it the night before and the next morning took me out in his beautiful sporty car.It was beautiful hot weather and I spent the day drinking cocktails and floating around doing this and that, and doing my laundry… I felt like quite the lady of leisure. Last night he suggested a 3D movie along with the dinner he had made. It was not all perfect but, as I have felt recently, I felt extremely content and at peace. D was very relaxed and in a good mood and loving and thoughtful. There was snuggles and sex and in general it all just makes me really happy.

    So, this morning, I felt a burning need to ask him if he saw commitment in our future. I have put off saying anything of this nature for weeks, months, wanting to just build closeness and good moments first. And I feel I have succeeded at that very well. He contacts me all the time now, much much more than he did in the past, and the tenderness and gentleness with which he relates to me feels very present to me. But obviously I did not want to ask this. I am very aware that in the past this sort of question has caused him to pull away, the way I asked it made him feel pressured and it all seemed to be too heavy and full of energy.

    I decided to go about it a different way. Because there is no point me asking him a question he doesn’t know the answer to – that will just make him feel frustrated and as if he’s upsetting me. Clearly he doesn’t know yet if he wants to marry or live with me – if he did, that’s what we’d be doing, so there’s no point asking him that. What I really want to know is, does he already know that marriage or being settled down in a committed relationship is NOT something he wants? Because if that is the case, my choice is simple – walk away. But I suspect that is not the case at all, and he confirmed it.

    I’m not going to pressure this relationship. Because I want to be sure that it’s what we both want. But I just want to know that he is open to it going somewhere more solid and secure.

    Anyway, I left shortly after that and he kissed me goodbye and said he’d text me later.

  83.  #83Mistea1 on March 15, 2015 at 5:39 am

    Gemini Goddess 70,

    Excellent, hopefully next time he will tell you to keep the outfit on, pay for it and off you go. that’s a good thing!!
    It’s not about the money. It’s about him wanting to see you in beautiful clothes a delightful way of providing lovingly for you.

  84.  #84tania on March 15, 2015 at 9:11 am

    Hi Rori,
    Please help me with this issue which may be useful to many women.i have been in a relationship with a man for 5 years. He is now 45. I dont want to marry him or anyone and we moved in together a year ago. A few months ago we had an argument and in the heat of the moment we both said we wanted to leave. The next morning we talked and decided to talk more that night. That night he came home very late, said he had been looking at flats to move into. This was a shock to me, and I said that i didnt want him to move out. He agreed. But since then i have been having palpitations and anxiety and dont feel safe at all. Everytime we have a difficult time i assume he is going to move out and not tell me. I wonder what it means for our relationship anyway if he was so quick to jump at the chance of moving out? His parents were divorced and he has never been married or had kids. He is also living in my house which he says is a blow to his manhood because he cant afford to buy a house of his own. Am i wasting my time with this type of man? Needless to say I can be difficult to live with myself because I get moody sometimes and I am not a very firgiving person.what do you think?

  85.  #85Mandy on March 15, 2015 at 9:53 am

    This is the song that describes what I want from ymy guy!

    10, 20, 30, 40
    Tell me that you wanna hold me
    Tell me that you wanna bore me
    Tell me that you gotta show me
    Tell me that you need to slowly
    Tell me that you’re burning for me
    Tell me that you can’t afford me
    Time to tell your dirty story
    Time turning over and over
    Time turning four leaf clover

    Betting on the bull in the heather

    10, 20, 30, 40
    Tell me that you wanna scold me
    Tell me that you a-dore me
    Tell me that you’re famous for me
    Tell me that your’re gonna score me
    Tell me that you gotta show me
    Tell me that you need to sorely
    Time to tell your love story
    Time turning over and over
    Time turning four leaf clover
    Betting on the bull in the heather

  86.  #86Beloved on March 15, 2015 at 10:40 am

    Gemini Goddess – WOWza!! Just, wow. Amazing turnaround. I felt happy and giddy and sexy and inspired. Way to be a Rock Star!

  87.  #87Liquid Light on March 15, 2015 at 11:00 am

    I’m considering purchasing a BMW i3 – its BMW’s electric car that just came out last year. Its a very cool looking car and it would allow me to drive in HOV lane for my commute. Its not really super expensive since its a lower end car for BMW and since there’s a rebate program offered by the government that reduces the price.

    Anyway, part of my hesitancy though (sadly) is that I don’t want to show up a man that I might date with my snazzy electric BMW. Ughh. That feels so strange and kinda depressing to say that. 🙁

  88.  #88Kim on March 15, 2015 at 12:01 pm

    Indigo: what do YOU want?
    I always start with that, and then see what the man has to offer…not get into his head about what feels good/bad to him…then I always find it easier to decide..if you know what I mean.
    If it is enough, great, if not: next.

  89.  #89Rori Raye on March 15, 2015 at 12:23 pm

    tania, Hi, and the fastest, least costly way for you to turn this around NOW is: Get the ebook Have The Relationship You Want to start understanding how all these Tools work to create your “Siren-ness.” THen – as soon as you get through it and understand what it’s about – get in touch with one or several of the Certified Coaches (I’ll have many new RRRCT Trainees who’re great for you to work with, too, in mid-April)- and get at least a few coaching sessions. They’ll fix this for you fast.

    Love, Rori

  90.  #90April Rose on March 15, 2015 at 1:24 pm

    Gemini Goddess,

    You have just confirmed for me what Labbit wrote in her comment 29
    “Your only task as the feminine-energy partner is to take care of YOU. A woman who takes care of herself, who concerns herself with her happiness and her pleasure, this is what attracts a man deeply.”

    Go you, bold, beautiful siren!

  91.  #91Gemini Goddess on March 15, 2015 at 2:09 pm

    Lovergirl, Feminiewoman, Emerson, Indigo, Beloved, and Mistea1, April Rose

    Thank you!!! I’m on a bit of a high at the moment! I feel like I’ve made a great break through, and SAVORING it! Sending my “break through” energy out to everyone!

  92.  #92Kath on March 15, 2015 at 2:17 pm

    Hi Sirens,

    I am finally learning!

    He told me he wanted to try again, that we had nothing to lose. I asked him if that was him saying he loved me still- and he said “Deep down yes”. I gave him my speech. I said I had always loved him, always would, but had felt smothered by the 24/7 relationship because I’d never had it. He admitted that he’d never had it either and had spent the last 6mths enjoying time to himself and hearing my voice in his head the whole time. He hadn’t gone back to the life I thought he would seek out again. He told me that he wanted to be with me, he missed me, he wanted to prove to me and his daughter and everyone that he could live on his own and succeed. He’s always loved cooking-its one of the things we shared-but he’d now baking bread and loving it!- This is a tough guy who is a real action man and I was totally impressed by how much he has calmed down in the 6mths we’ve not seen each other. We both want to try again and I looked into me and found something I didn’t like about me. I have huge trust issues and piled all of it on him. which then he admitted he’d made worse even though he’d never done anything-he just couldn’t handle me and my outbursts. I promised to take a deep breath and he promised to hug me if I sounded insecure. The thing is after 4yrs of being with him and then splitting up because I thought he didn’t love me. Now I know he really does love me-Woohoo!- I can’t begin to tell you how good that makes me feel!!!!!

  93.  #93Gemini Goddess on March 15, 2015 at 2:55 pm

    (((lovetodance))) 75

    “i told him i didn’t want to be anybody’s girlfriend…i wanted to keep our connection…could we find a way to be clear and comfortable in that…he has lost the romantic tone and ramped up the sexual pursuit”

    This sounds very masculine in that he is responding according to your request, not that it’s a difficult one. 🙂

    “i feel drawn to exploring that with him and still want
    to be treated like the prize i am…he knows it has been a long time since i was in relationship….”

    This sounds like you know what you want. The “prize” status is in your hands (and heart) no matter when it happens, but if doing it makes you FEEL less like a prize, hold off. I think the guy is lucky, and better keep doing an enthusiastic good job to please me if he wants ME to stick around. I’ve told D this just as matter of fact as can be. (sip of coffee, shrug) I hope that helps your perspective.

    “i feel we both are wanting and needing sexual relating…and i am confused about being involved that way and still wanting tenderness and vulnerability on both our parts…i feel he put his heart out there and i qualified what i could and couldn’t do…and now he is relating to me with less tenderness…..more just kinda a raw lets be real with this…and get primal…”

    Yep. Risky and scary and exciting, and you cannot control the outcome. Sexual relating does not preclude tenderness and vulnerability. Sounds like he’s trying to “relate” as requested, and may have his own insecurities, feeling of rejection, etc. (Wait, does she only wants me for sex? What if I can’t satisfy her? What if I’ve lost “it”? What about my heart? Fret, fret, worry, worry, penis shrinkage…just a boy.)

    “oh my…i am so trying to control this and protect myself…i have big considerations about him and yet he is the closest to my wanting to break out of my sexual anorexia thats crossed my path…and is available…”

    There has to be a first, and it WILL bring up all kinds of stuff. (Been there fairly recently) I’d get on with it, and move on to the next, if that’s what is to happen. And/or…maybe this will prove to be a long lasting situation. As they say, there’s no saying the wrong thing (or doing the wrong thing – my own interpretation) with the right guy.

    “i have very high school stuff coming up about not being ‘used’ and yet i would be doing this for me…”

    Doing it for you! (underlined)

    “seems so simple when reading others dilemma’s yet when this is happening with me…i am all ‘huh’….”

    Boy howdy, do I understand this one.

    “most importantly i want to be respected and valued and safe…”

    You know these are on you. 🙂

    “i need to find out more about him before i even bring him to my house…no less into my body…..”

    No answer for that one, just a hug.


  94.  #94Gemini Goddess on March 15, 2015 at 3:10 pm


  95.  #95tania on March 15, 2015 at 3:20 pm

    Thanks Rori.
    About your post,
    The thing I always feel about having it all is that deep down I don’t deserve it. Its meant for someone else who is better than me. I have always been successful at work so I always feel less confidence in my personal life. I feel that I am not …. Enough where you can put any good word in the gap. I have never looked at myself as a feminine woman although I so long to be. I feel like everything is stopping me having it all. Other women are always jealous and the thought of going big scares me to somehow be targetted by bitchy women. I am afraid of the consequences. I always minimise myself so not to attract any attention from jealous women. I am above average in looks so people tell me and I always sense a negative feeling from other women.
    I Hope this is helpful in some way.

  96.  #96Dominique on March 15, 2015 at 3:26 pm

    Kath – 90 – This feels so beautiful to read. Yay yyou!!!

    Love to you.


  97.  #97Dominique on March 15, 2015 at 3:26 pm

    Gemini Goddess – 70 – WOW, just wow!!!

    Love to you.


  98.  #98Linda on March 15, 2015 at 6:10 pm

    Kath that is so awesome to read. !

  99.  #99Mandy on March 15, 2015 at 6:10 pm

    Sigh…I just feel depressed and hopeless. So powerless. So Spineless. Such a slave to my ever-trusting nurturing nature so naive, so blind…so unaware, too forgiving for my own good…I don’t know how to handle anything, it seems.

    Why can’t I have a backbone??? Why can’t I have boundaries that I can make very clear without someone making fun of me like I’m a fool trying to be serious?

    I hurt. I want my friends so bad right now.I feel like crying. I feel so utterly awkward and powerless against my own guy.

    I don’t understand it. Why can’t I just tell him to get help or be just friends? I hear stuff from all sides. He’s a good man. He’s manipulative. He’s so sweet. He’s selfish…heard it all about him.

    I feel like I’m going nuts and he’ll be home any minute.

  100.  #100Linda on March 15, 2015 at 6:21 pm

    Indigo.. thanks for your encouragement. Even if this is not a relationship that will ever “work” I certainly am getting lots of opportunity to grow and develop a stronger connection with myself. It feels pretty good actually.

  101.  #101IamHIs on March 15, 2015 at 6:33 pm

    ((((Mandy))))) – trust your instinct. You don’t need anybody else to tell you about this man. YOU KNOW. You’ve got your negative voices screaming at you. Hand them all warm baked chocolate chip cookies…then hand your TRUE VOICE a nice glass of ice cold cucumber water.

    Listen to her. She knows.

  102.  #102Mistea1 on March 15, 2015 at 7:09 pm

    Well, this lean back thing keeps backfiring on me. After our Christmas talk MusicTd told me he was more interested and closer to everyone else in the whole world but me. The time limit I had imposed on this was coming to an end and I decided to have no contact.

    It was surprisingly hard but I meditated, did EFT, journaling etc. to move on.

    I changed churches and didn’t go to any performances until March 1, I went to evensong enjoyed the playing arrived late and left early, didn’t see him. On march 6 i went to a performance by the Westminster Abbey,London England organist who was really great. I navigated MusicTds trying to approach by ignoring him and then leaving without looking at him or responding in any way. That time just seeing him caused a slight reaction for 2 or so hours.

    I was feeling good about that and relieved he did not force himself on me. I even got to talk to my friends but made a mistake and told someone where I now go to church. The following Sunday there was a free concert at the new church. It was excellent. About half way through who shows up but MusicTd who sits directly in front of me about 10 rows down.

    I was afraid this would happen when I ignored him. He’s still trying to dominate this non-rel. I moved up to the choirloft to finish out the concert and left by a side door. I was hoping to join the reception afterward as I enjoy meeting new people. I especially wanted to talk to the mother of the little boy who sat so engrossed when the violinist played. I hope she had started him playing the violin. He was so cute. I was disappointed that I didn’t feel comfortable enough to go to the reception. I still have this chemical reaction although it’s much less. Victoria suggested about 3 months so I still have one month to go. Then I’ll go and do whatever i want. Any insights, comments. I’m wondering if I showed up with a male someone whether it might help speed this along a little.

  103.  #103Linda on March 15, 2015 at 7:30 pm

    I heard from him last evening. He said he had read my my message and was not sure what to think of if and he just needed to think over everything I said.

    That was very curious to me I felt I articulated very well but I took another stab at it with more feelings messages this morning

    So then this afternoon. I get a message saying that he does love but he needs to ease back into a relationship with me. He said he said he had to see actions back up words and then proceeded to innumerate ways I had hurt him so badly from out past and brought up the three main things that issues that needed fixed. Then he wanted to know what would be different and how I they would be fixed. Then went on to say how he wanted a sexy passionate woman all the time not just once in a while! Then said men are pretty simple creatures , keep a nice clean house, keep them well fed and be very desirable to them. Surprise him, show him he is wanted and make him feel like he is the most important thing in your life.

    I could not hardly believe my what I read!!! I actually felt like telling him off! My blood was boiling. But it felt good to feel that anger honestly.

    My response was:

    “Not once have I brought up any of the things that you have done that caused me to close up to you. I let it go and decided to respond to you with a fresh set of eyes and open heart.”

    “I see this is not where you are at all and you are focused on yourself and are holding onto what was and making sure to tell me how much I hurt you and throw in a I told you so or two.”

    “Our past relationship had so many wonderful qualities but it broke down for me. It became what felt like a mine field and most certainly I did not feel emotionally at ease or safe. You said you were sorry for the things you know you did to damage our relationship and have even said that you would give anything to make things work… but this is not what you are offering me.”

    “I had no idea if any of the things that made me want to leave would be different but I was willing to try again and I was focused on the good things and your recent advances toward me and not on the past. After this last message and I see your focus, I am pretty sure that they wont be different unless that changes.”

    “I dont want to be tested and measured, I want to be accepted. I dont want to have to earn love or perform to keep it. I want to be cherished and respected. I certainly am not interested in keeping a nice house, a man well fed and sexually satisfied in order for him to want to be in a relationship with me. If that’s what it takes then they should hire a maid, a cook, and a hooker.
    Your heart feels pretty closed up to me and there’s no room for me to get in.”

    You know what I got back from him..???

    Ok let’s let it go then. (Meaning forget the relationship thing.)

    He did not like what I said. But I did not blame him in any way I just stated clearly how I felt and what I was and wasnt interested in and how I perceived the condition of his heart and how that felt to me.

    He may not have the ability to create or sustain a emotional connection. He certainly has three divorces under his belt and broken relationships with all of his siblings. If that is the case then it will never work between us because that is the key to me (and I am so happy that I know that about myself now.)..

    I had a feeling he would not like what I had to say but I dont care. If he wants a relationship with me (and he may not now) he will have to accept me as I am.

  104.  #104Emerson on March 15, 2015 at 8:34 pm

    I’ve been stumbling accross a lot of marriage/relationship stuff just by accident…on the radio, books I come accross…friends talking, tv shows….ugh, it’s all around me.
    Instead of feeling annoyed by it, I’m listening and hoping to learn from it. We can always learn from others’ successes and failures…so to speak.

  105.  #105Emerson on March 15, 2015 at 8:44 pm

    Since New Year’s Eve it’s happened to me twice that an acquaintance has said to me that I may make a good couple with a certain man that they/we know….and in reality, they are the ones interested in him.

    It took me a while to catch on to the first one, but the second one I caught it right away….
    I find it annoying and puzzling….
    Anyone else experience this?

  106.  #106Silver-Tongued Siren on March 15, 2015 at 9:23 pm

    Sorry everyone, I have been sick the last few days.

    Well, I was right on about Avocado avoiding me –
    but the reason?

    He took our child on Thursday afternoon, and was going to bring him back Thursday night so he could work Friday morning.

    I was unaware, but he also thought he was keeping our child throughout the entire next week because of spring break. (it’s my year to keep our child for spring break, not his).

    His Friday work got cancelled Thursday afternoon, (that is when I put out the invitation for Friday morning), so he didn’t drop our child off Thursday night, but I thought they were returning Friday morning as usual.

    It turns out, he had mad an appointment for Friday morning to take our child (without my agreement) for vaccinations. MILW and I went through this pregnancy together, birthed and raised our child, (as MILW & I had an established family beforehand. This pregnancy happened when I left MILW the first time, so we knew there was a chance, but still went through with it and have been very inclusive. I do not give my children vaccinations. Avocado suddenly last year demanded that our child get ALL his vaccinations, NOW.

    I tried to arrange a compromise. he agreed, and then went back on it saying that’s not what he meant, and he wanted them all, now. After several other issues, where it got to the point that his behavior was not healthy, I pointed it out and he stopped nearly ALL of the issues that were happening (things he was saying to our child and I). So basically, he tried to force me to make a doctors appointment about it, we went to a “well check”, did not have another appt for vaccines after. In fact, Avocado has gone with us a couple of times to the doctor and we have not spoken about it at all. haven’t heard anything about it for months.

    He suddenly made this appointment, without telling me, not at the doctor’s office, and gave him several vaccines, and thought he had a whole week for our child to heal up and he would avoid me finding out until down the road.

    He had to bring our child back the same day, however- and he managed to procrastinate until the evening, and was waiting for us to go see the potential living space together. We waited all day before finding out we couldn’t see it that day after all.
    So he brought our child over, with the invitation to stay and eat pizza and hang out – but acted weird and stand-offish while he was here, (standing in the door of the bedroom, not initiating any interaction with anyone, leaving quickly) –

    As soon as he walked out, our child told me what happened.

    So, now I have to have a discussion with him about creating a solution so that in the future if there are disagreements, including about THIS, we have a way to come to an agreement, and there is NO hiding things, everything needs to be agreed upon.

    Not sure how we will ever agree about this or find any middle ground, but that was not okay.
    Additionally, he didn’t even tell me about it before he left – and as soon as he left, our child, my sister, myself, and her child all got sick and have been sick all weekend. Last night was scary, with my child, he screamed from 2 am until 8-9 am with multiple complaints and also started twitching. He is now more well than I am at this point, so fortunately what I’ve given him is working.

    Anyway, so now I know why the funny behavior. Going to nip that right in the bud.

  107.  #107Liquid Light on March 15, 2015 at 9:27 pm

    He canceled 🙁

  108.  #108Mandy on March 16, 2015 at 12:19 am

    Iamhis – wish my intuition wasn’t clouded by the negatives feelings from hormonal fluctuation. Holy smokes this period is a doozy….haven’t experienced such mood swings for years…. Wow it was bad today…

  109.  #109Indigo on March 16, 2015 at 12:39 am

    Kim 86,

    I don’t think I was getting into what feels good/bad for him. As you rightly point out, that is his business. No, it was more getting clarity, trying to see where he was at.

    For example, I know for definite that I do not want to have children. So there would be no point at the outset for a man who did want children to think there was a future with me. In a similar way, to me it looks like D does not yet know for definite what he wants in terms of a committed relationship in his future. Sometimes he states that it is what he wants, and he often acts that way in his behaviour with me, and other times he seems unsure. So I really just wanted to clarify that he is, in fact, unsure, and that it is not that he knows for definite that it’s not what he wants, much like I am about children. Make sense?

    As to what I want, I know what this is. I want to be settled down, in a peaceful, calm, contented relationship where we live together. But I also want what I have with him, because it makes me very, very happy. Time will tell if the two can merge into one.

  110.  #110Victoria on March 16, 2015 at 1:03 am

    I am back! I had some very stressful time at work, and then had to travel some, and had no chance to write. But I have been reading and enjoying your beautiful stories.
    So, now that I am back in the saddle, lets see what life has for me. I am curious and excited.
    On the topic of can we have it all, etc., I am pretty sure we can have it all. I see some of the ladies here say they are not ambitious and always knew they would be with a man who makes more money than them, and that is quite traditional.
    I, on the other hand, have always been extremely ambitious, and, accidentally or not, I have been very good with money. A few men in my past have tried to tell me that my ambition is off-putting (in fact, a guy told me some 20 years ago that ambition is a wonderful quality for a man, and a flaw in women… he went on to say that I would make a great man, but as a woman I am only so-so). I never got insulted, I took to heart what he said, and I learned to down-play my ambitious side in the early stages of dating. Now, being 20 years wiser, I know he meant not my ambition but my arrogance (and I had/have quite a lot of that) and my sarcasm and the fact that I used to look down at people less ambitious than me.
    I also learnt that I can not make it work with men who are even more ambitious than me, or with men who make more money than me. I have tried dating some of those, they are so annoying. Dam*, I am probably equally annoying to them, hehehe.
    I have not seen F. in a week, I have been so busy and unavailable, and I think I have cooled off to him quite a bit. But I am seeing him today, he made plans for our next two dates, not bad, so will see…

  111.  #111Indigo on March 16, 2015 at 2:57 am


    That is so interesting. May I ask, was your mother ambitious in her career?

    In my case, my mom has always been a hardworking career woman, often needing to make up for the financial shortfall of the men in her life. I think a part of me vowed that would never be me. That I would always be able to provide for myself, yes, but only choose a man who was generous and had plenty of resources (not wealthy necessarily, just well off, enough money that it would never be a worry). My father provided scantily at best financially when I was growing up and I choose men who are the opposite of him in that way.

  112.  #112Zeer on March 16, 2015 at 3:21 am

    I have been married for over an year now . everything was great until a few months ago . My Husband is not interested in spending time with me . He says im very controlling . i want him by my side all the time and i dont like it when he goes out with his friends often. I cant eat without him breathe without him i cant function without him. How do i stop needing him all the time. How do i stop chasing him.

  113.  #113Victoria on March 16, 2015 at 3:28 am

    My mother was a working career woman, and my father resented her for that, but I have always liked her and disliked him. He wanted a traditional wife, one who would bring his slippers when he comes home, etc. She simply was not the type, and they were both unhappy with each other.
    They were lower-middle class, and neither of them cared too much about saving money or advancing in life with material things (they simply did not care to have a better hourse of a better car). Also, for most of my teens they were on the verge of divorce, I guess this explains why they did not care to build things together.
    Money was never scarce, but never abundant either. And then, when I finished high school, I got a part time job as a translator, while going to university. And then I discovered, all of a sudden, the joy of having your own money, going out as much as you like, buying whatever your soul desires.
    I take enormous joy and pride in being able to pay for whatever I want. I am able to now support my parents financially, and this also gives me great satisfaction.
    Theoretically, I would like to date a rich man who pays for me to have my needs met. In practice, the pool of men I would qualify as rich compared to me is small, and rich men want a traditional wife (poor men do too by the way) and this is not what I could be. And, I really do not like being told what to do, and rich men want to tell their wives (and pretty much every one around them) that they know better. Not my cup of tea.

  114.  #114Indigo on March 16, 2015 at 3:37 am


    “rich men want to tell their wives (and pretty much every one around them) that they know better. Not my cup of tea.”

    Not mine either! Probably why I have never, never aspired to marry a very wealthy man. For me, upper middle class men are ideal – they have enough money that it is never a worry and they can afford to pay for things without feeling it too much, but not so much that it’s gone to their head. I’ve always just instinctively, unconsciously chosen men like this.

  115.  #115Victoria on March 16, 2015 at 4:05 am

    I love this discussion :-).
    For me, I figured I tend to date men who are slightly below my educational and/or income level.
    Mind you, they are not stupid or broke, usually they are just less ambitious, and I tell you what, it is very easy to be less ambitious than me!
    Men who are less ambitious tend to be more relaxed, go with the flow, live for the moment. I lack this in me, and I appreciate people who have less energy, or more relaxed energy. And, as I have told you before, my best female friend is extremely introvert and kind of phlegmatic, but we are, me and she, just perfect for each other.
    F. is one of the most intelligent men I have ever met, but is anything but energetic. He is smart, intellectually curious, and reads people very well. He is also unabitious, disorganized and kind of slow. Oh well, he is a doctor… I adore this about him, and, even though he has made some bad financial choices in the past, and is quite heavily in debt, I do love his profession. It is very much a part of his personality, being caring and attentive, and seeking to help people heal. I guess I miss him more than I realized!

  116.  #116Kim on March 16, 2015 at 4:22 am

    108 Victoria, that kind of resonates….I was always very ambitious, was the first of my family to go to University, lived and worked in different countries..and it is true that some wealthy/successful men are annoying…but not all. At the end of the day people are people, and some less ambitious men on the other scale can have confidence issues and inferiority complexes and that can be pretty annoying too lol.
    I feel very attracted to successful alpha men provided they are intelligent and kind and not too ‘full of themselves’. Not many of those around and at my age they happen to me in relationships..or marriages lol.
    I agree that my guy is on the less ambitious side, and parts of me enjoy it, and the piece that comes with it…on the other hand, I do get irritated by it also.
    I don’t know if over a long period of time, women can respect a man who is a lot less ambitious, and has a lot less ‘go’ than us…unless we are masculine women at work and at home and he follows our lead. Patricia Allen has written about this…very interesting to read.
    I don’t know if it is possible to ‘have it all’…’do it all’ and ‘be it all’….I find those phrases almost a little annoying, like pressure, because my view point in life has changed so much over the years. I think more important than ‘having it all’ is actually being content with what we have, as that probably leads to greater satisfaction in life.
    This might pertain to business life as much as it pertains to love life, and I don’t mean settling, I mean appreciation. Hm.

  117.  #117Kim on March 16, 2015 at 4:23 am

    OMG typos ‘peace’ not piece…

  118.  #118Victoria on March 16, 2015 at 4:41 am

    I read with great interest your story about how annoyed you were with your man when he was hibernating with his sister over the weekend. I relate to this a lot, except that, in recent months I have found the ability to reframe the situation, and make lemonade out of lemons. I read Dominique’s articles on fear of abandonment, they were like a revelation to me. I got so relaxed afterwards, now when he is not calling because he is hybernating (he does this!) or is late because he is simply slow, I always have a plan B. Than was tiring at first, but is now a second nature, and, I suspect it is the only way to be with someone with lesser energy levels.
    I would not mind meeting a very rich and very intelligent and very kind, and, may I throw in, very handsome man… I am very open to that, but, if he exists, he is probably very busy, because he still has not come my way. 🙂

  119.  #119Victoria on March 16, 2015 at 4:54 am

    @ Linda 101,
    I re-read your post several times. Your exchange with this guy reminds me of me in a similar situation… I have so been there, in a situation in which you think you are being honest and authentic, and he finds it accusatory and gets defensive.
    I am also thinking, yes, they all say they want want us to perform, as a servant and as an entertainer for them, but any woman who has actually done that (me included) knows that this is not what gets them attracted to you. The thing that gets them attracted is you having your own full life, in combination of being nice when you speak to them. I guess this is my reading of strong inside, soft outside. I so hope for you that you and him can move beyond the discussion of who did not do what, and, if there is still love in both of you, allow it to grow.

  120.  #120Indigo on March 16, 2015 at 5:02 am

    Victoria 115,

    I love everything about this post of yours!

    “I got so relaxed afterwards, now when he is not calling because he is hybernating (he does this!) or is late because he is simply slow, I always have a plan B. Than was tiring at first, but is now a second nature, and, I suspect it is the only way to be with someone with lesser energy levels.”

    My man has lesser energy levels than me… and after sitting with this issue for years, I realised it was not a dealbreaker for me. Making other plans and not holding myself back from doing what I would enjoy has become second nature to me too. I have basically adopted the philosophy of: when he is willing to “do” things, go out and engage in activities, I embrace these with open arms and give it all my enthusiasm. When he is hibernating (he does this, especially after a few nights in a row with me!) it is second nature to me now to turn my attention away and onto other activities, whether it be with friends, family or just other things I want to do. I have realised I can be very happy and contented this way.

  121.  #121Femininewoman on March 16, 2015 at 5:21 am

    Linda we teach people how to treat us by the way we treat ourselves. I didn’t like what he said and I am wondering if it is that he thinks he can’t do any better why after you were done with him you are now back having this conversation with him.

  122.  #122Sophie on March 16, 2015 at 5:38 am

    Not in the way I’d like to be and I’m in the same position tonight grrrr

    The other night I went to a different bar where I have friends because I was in the feeling ‘let down’ mood. He had contacted meby the time I’d got back but due to all the ongoings I’d been through I didn’t amke myself unavailable. Now I feel all waity again because I like doing the quiz on a monday but there’s been no contact so I guess that’s not happening. I dunno – maybe it was too intense cos I kissed him last night, or maybe a million things. It feels frustrating.

    Anyway, i’ll go out but…re. cding – now there are two factors.

    One is the other night I ended up spending 8 hours trying to get a psychotic English woman somewhere safe – the other staff helped me but we had to go to the police station twice and then eventually (when we’d found out her identity) got her into the hospital – that took til 5am so I felt pretty vulnerable yesterday.

    Now, she’s been discharged or discharged herself and maybe its all just drugs and I don’t want to be involved so it feels like there are some of my ‘safe places’ I’d prefer to avoid. blah.

    Then, there are men but they aren’t being that forthcoming with asking me out… ever – in fact this ÇD is probably the only one who is/has. And in some cases rather than up the competition, some just dropped out of the race.

    Thirdly, I have to be careful where I go for my own safety…that’s a tricky one. Ånyway, I’m going to go out now and hope that there is no trouble with the woman from the other night.

    Ålso, re, cd’ing i’m not that good at it, – Dominique wrote an article about that and being sensitive – I certainly am there are only some men who I feel able to give my energy too but then, yeah perhaps I give too much. Feeling glum I don’t get what I wanted tonight but I’ll go out and hopefully found fun (rather than craziness!) pleeeasseee –

    love to you all – sorry for self-obsessive posts! lovetodance – wow 🙂 and Indigo – cool 🙂 xxx

  123.  #123Sophie on March 16, 2015 at 5:39 am

    oops 118 was aimed at Kim re. cding

  124.  #124Sophie on March 16, 2015 at 5:40 am

    sorry 119

  125.  #125Emerson on March 16, 2015 at 6:13 am

    106 (((Mandy)))

  126.  #126Labbit on March 16, 2015 at 6:41 am

    64 Linda — I am glad to hear they resonated with you. 🙂 I completely love what Victoria has said in 116 in response to you. With time I have learned that most women want acceptance and to be cherished. Men want to be accepted and respected. You have the power to decide whatever man you want to be with, but to be with any man you need to be able to accept him as he is right now and respect him too. And he must accept you just as you are now and cherish you.

    70 Gemini Goddess – This is AMAZING. I love every little bit of your tale. GO YOU!!

    77 Emerson — A lot of times for me, I’ve found that when I’m upset about something inside but lying to myself about it (pretending I’m not upset, etc.) my environment will bombard me with reminders about what I’m trying to avoid. So perhaps your friends are picking up on something going on inside of you? It’s OK to feel disappointed or frustrated with the dating scene and how things are going…I have felt this way plenty of times. Ignoring these feelings only makes them stronger…the key is to allow yourself to feel them but then not wallow in them; instead to say to yourself I feel sad and so I’m going to treat myself really well today and do things that I know will make me happy! When you use your boy energy in this way you create momentum in your life that a man will then come in to fill.

    To your comment in 103, yes I have experienced this where a friend set me up with a man that THEY were in fact interested in…but not since high school! It strikes me as quite immature. I haven’t let friends set me up with anyone in a long time. If this is happening to you repeatedly it could be time to find a new avenue to meet men. What worked best for my comfort level was to find fun events that I would be interested in attending anyway — art shows, museum evening events, smaller concerts, running groups, author events at bookstores, and so on — and then I’d go stag (sometimes with a friend) planning to enjoy the event first and then chat with any man who approached me second. Fill your life up with routines, fun activities, and people who make you feel good and then supplement that with fun new experiences. This is all how you create the opening for a good man to slide in — and you may not even notice him sliding in at first because of how fulfilling your life ALREADY is.

    80 Indigo — Awesome. First word to last word. I am glad that you got the information you needed to further feel comfortable with D! It sounds like he is growing and changing right along with you.

    90 Kath — YAY!! This is so wonderful to read, I feel so happy for you. 🙂

    97 Mandy — Can you get away somewhere for a few days, somewhere that you can be on your own or maybe with a trusted friend and just not think about J at all, have some fun for a day or two?

    100 Mistea1 — It sounds like you are doing great! I agree with Victoria that the hormonal attachment continues to fade with time. Yes you may feel a jolt every time you see him but you don’t need to let it affect you. I doubt showing up with another man would do anything if your reasoning is to ‘show’ MusicTD that you’re over him. Just live your life and find your happiness. There is no need to put any kind of show for anybody. Comfort in your own skin, that is where the power lies.

    105 — Aww Liquid Light, I am sorry to hear that! It seems like you have been working up a dating whirlwind though, so one little blip on the radar is nothing to give a second thought to.

    115 Victoria — Ooooh, I love this so much! Very well said. I would add that even high-energy men need their downtime — TenderCD is is very much go-go-go which I love but when he needs his cave time he is 100% dedicated to doing NOTHING, LOL. I think this all goes into what you’ve said in 116, how it’s important for us to have our own full lives so a man never feels like he’s our on-demand entertainment or like it’s up to him to fill up our lives. We need to do that for ourselves. Someone expressed it to me like breathing, for every breath in of action and dating and such there needs to be a breath out of relaxation and connection with our own inner selves, for women and men too.

  127.  #127Labbit on March 16, 2015 at 6:53 am

    I had a wonderful weekend! I was at a workshop from Friday night through Sunday evening and since it was right here in my home city I still got to have date night with TenderCD on Saturday. He took me out for a super yummy dinner at one of our favorite restaurants. Then afterwards we were walking around and he stopped right in front of Tiffany’s. He asked me if I wanted to go in ‘just to look around and try some stuff on’. We have talked engagement and he knows that I want to be engaged before we begin living together and that I’m not ready to get engaged to him yet. Still, no harm in looking right?

    For a long time I dreamed of a Tiffany’s ring, though these days there’s a designer in Los Angeles who makes my dream ring. It’s super expensive though so I’d just like to find something LIKE that ring in our city. Walking through Tiffany’s on Tender’s arm was a bit like dreaming — the lights are pretty bright and hazy in there, and all the sparkle surrounding you makes it feel even more dreamlike. Well done, Tiffany’s visual team!

    We went up to the floor where engagement rings are kept, were immediately greeted by a very friendly female rep. She asked if we were looking to buy today and we said no which helped me relax. She totally understood — I guess this is pretty common — and looked at case after case of rings. We eventually settled on 6 for me to try on (4 I liked, 2 he did). The two he picked out were fine by me as well, thank god, I used to have nightmares about guys liking really ugly rings.

    Of the rings 5 looked fine and 1 was not the right shape for my finger at all. TenderCD was partial to a simple princess cut (I liked the radiant a little better with its rounded corners) and my favorite was a round cut surrounded by a ring of smaller diamonds. When we said thank you and good night to the rep, she winked at TenderCD and said, “Well, now you know her ring size!” And he just laughed and blushed deeply. Hmmmm…

    Our apartment is also moving along. Our architect’s plans were approved by the condo board and we should hear back on city permits this week so we can start demolition. In the meantime the architect is already taking us out this week to look at different cabinets, flooring, tiles, lighting and such for all the rooms. I have a feeling it’s going to get overwhelming very quickly! So much is happening right now.

  128.  #128Kim on March 16, 2015 at 8:11 am

    Victoria and Indigo, I feel just a tad misunderstood because while a man having slightly less energy levels than me is not really a problem because I am not focused as much on him as I am on having my own life, friends, social stuff – which I have…the problem is that he wants to monopolise me but doesn’t have the energy for it, i e what happened with his sister that weekend…he was ‘making plans’ beforehand that turned to nothing…meanwhile I was keeping myself free for the plans we had that didn’t materialise and this is what infuriates me….and after thinking about it, I see it as a little manipulation.
    He knows I always have a plan B if something is wishy washy…and he categorically does not want me to socialise with other single men alone (I understand this), but I have decided unless I am booked up with a time and a day, this js exactly what I am going to do from now on.
    I consider wishy washy plans to be no plans. He is going to get pissed at me, but to me a man who makes plans he doens’t keep in order to keep me from socialising with others, in particluar other men – doesn’t work if I end up sitting home alone. Ermmm..lol!
    I have stopped CDing because he asked me to.
    He is not stepping up in the way I would like, so unlike me sitting here, dating him exclsively, getting triggered that he doesn’t bring anything about our future up, I am just going to let it go. And go on with my life. I knkw he will be shocked but hello. He is 45 years old. He has to know how the world works…and if he doesn’t, well then he is not for me.
    We spent the whole weekend together, it was ‘nice’ just nice. That’s it. I am not going to overanalyse.
    I feel single and like I am just dating and until I have a ring, a move in date or anything solid, I am going to go back to CDing.
    Feels like a relief!

  129.  #129Azure Blu on March 16, 2015 at 8:22 am

    {{{Labbit}}} #124
    Yummmy, Yuuumy, YuMMY!
    Tiffany’s….mmmm it does sound soooo dreamy.
    Congratulaitons… well, I know…it’s NOT yet!

    AND your apartment fixing sounds VERY fun!!! Enjoy, lovely Siren!!
    All your work…. using the Rori (and others) tools..
    Is so evident… thank you, thank you for sharing alllll of your thoughtful, loving energy here!!
    I learn SOOO much from allll your sharing of YOUR journey and wisdom to others.

  130.  #130Azure Blu on March 16, 2015 at 8:26 am

    LOVE, LOVE your sharing of your plan B when your man was late… SOOO sireny!!!
    Such a great example of making lemonade out of lemons!!!
    you sounded sooo sexy and flirty and fun…
    instead of negative, drama queen…
    Ahhhh… a breath of rori air!!

  131.  #131Victoria on March 16, 2015 at 8:38 am

    Oh Kim,
    I do understand. Being the super-organized, super time-efficient, meticulous planner that I am, my F. has been a god-sent challenge. One time in our first year together, I waited for him for 3 hours, turns up he fell asleep, in the middle of the day, leaving his phone in the other room … I was furious, and as soon as he called me back after my 20 calls (at a certain point I was worried that he had a heart attack or something, this is how strange his delay was) I broke up with him on the spot. He came to me, and he cried, and he professed he is such an idiot and I took him back, which I never regretted, by the way.
    Then, after this episode, I was on the alert, always having anxiety that he will do this to me again… He kind of did once more, but I was semi-prepared and did not freak out.
    Eventually, over the years, I have learnt (ok I am still learning) to let go. It is in the past, I do not have to dwell on it, I can choose to think about the great times we had together instead of about the times he disappointed me. I wonder sometime, is it possible that he also has a list of disappointments caused by me, but then, this is not possible, is it, me being the perfect creature that I am, hehehe.
    Kim, I understand also that you feel like you are missing something until you have a ring, but I want to offer you an alternative view on that, and that is, that with or without the ring, he would still be the same man. You have the opportunity NOW to still re-negotiate your relationship, how much time you spend together and what you do, before you seal the deal. And, it seems to me, he is very focused on you, and he is not going anywhere, he is just a little bit clueless once in a while. Oh well, I see I am defending a man I never met, mea culpa.
    I so recognize my own anger and frustration in you! This is why I want to hug you, and tell you, really, it is not a big deal, it really isn’t, you have a great man who is willing to do whatever you wish from him, just don’t push him away.

  132.  #132Victoria on March 16, 2015 at 9:00 am

    something else. I also have experience with dating a man who was close with his sister. This was so annoying, I made a point of choosing someone with a brother this time, lol. The sister-from-hell really was jealous with me, and always took care of her little brother like he was still a child (washing his dishes, ironing his clothes) which made me look like a lazy spoilt brat compared to how much work she was willing to do for him. Going back to your story, if you felt manipulated, I have a tiny bit of suspicion that it was her doing rather than his, from my experience men are not such complicated schemers. Just my two cents.

  133.  #133Kath on March 16, 2015 at 10:25 am

    Thank you Sirens!- It does feel good to start letting go of the stuff that has trapped me for so long. I do have a challenge though because he asked me how I was going to deal with his friendship with a woman I can’t stand. I’ve never liked her, or trusted her, and yet they were friends before he started seeing me. He even stopped seeing her because I didn’t like her- I truly am not bothered by their friendship I just said to him that it was his friendship and I wouldn’t get involved. Thing is, she is a parasite, has manipulated her way into his family, knows all of his brothers and sisters,so family events will be trying!- I know I have to rise above it-but this is going to be very challenging!

  134.  #134Labbit on March 16, 2015 at 10:40 am

    75 lovetodance — I can really identify with the desire to want to protect yourself, I tend to feel very conservative about sex and who I share it with, and at times that’s been tough to balance with, well, feeling horny! Especially during periods where I was just dating men and not at a point where I felt ready to invest in any of them (or that any of them were ready to invest in me). A couple of times in my life I have taken on a lover, and while both felt really good for a time I found that time fleeting. It doesn’t vibe with how I’m built. So it’s really about finding what feels true to you. If you feel comfortable taking it to that level, knowing that he might not be ready for a relationship or even thinking that way, go for it! And if not…then don’t. Don’t let outside pressures change what’s true for you.

    All that being said, there are some simple scripts you can use with him. Keep in mind that early on EVERY MAN’s goal is going to be to have sex with you. Their initial attraction to us is a GUT attraction. It’s only natural that his primary goal will be to bed you. Some men are better at hiding this than others but it’s just a fact of the male species for heterosexual men.

    I’m not clear whether he’s saying these things in person, over email, text, or what form of communication…?

    Regardless, the script has two parts, really simple: How you feel about this strong sexual attention, and then how it feels to feel that way. I’d start off thank you in most cases because in a way, remember he is trying to FLATTER you. He’s just going about it in a really awkward way.

    If you’re in person or on the phone, I’d say: Thank you. I feel awkward right now. I feel uncomfortable feeling awkward. — and that’s it. I’d allow there to be silence. Be careful not to blame him with your thoughts as you’re saying this. It’s an invitation on your part for him to cherish your feelings. Open up, be vulnerable, tell him how you feel.

    Alternative: Thank you. I feel dizzy right now, this is all coming so fast. I feel better slowing down.

    If it’s email or messages on a dating site I’d say: Wow, I felt such a rush reading this. I feel a little dizzy and out of control. I don’t want to feel overwhelmed…it would feel good to slow down.

    You can play around with these, again the most important thing is to look for what you’re feeling inside of YOU and then deliver an authentic message based on that. Take your time with it until you find the message that feels real. Don’t feel rushed to respond to him (even if you’re in person, it’s OK to physically back up and take a few breaths).

    I like to find what I’m feeling in my body — is my stomach tight? Did my jaw tense up? Is my head suddenly pounding? Is my v responding? Did I start holding my breath?

    Once I know where in my body the feeling is, I can usually figure out pretty quickly what it is that I feel. Keep asking yourself until you get a feeling that makes you relax — that’s when you’ve hit on it. And if you can’t find it, then you probably feel numb or shut down. That’s totally OK for now too, and I’d say that I feel numb or shut down if I do. Example: I feel numb right now, a bit overwhelmed. I’d feel better getting some air.

  135.  #135Mistea1 on March 16, 2015 at 11:50 am

    Labbit 123,
    Thank you! In April another recital and I intend to be relaxed and at ease and will go to the reception this time.

    124, Excellent. Yea you!! Tiffany’s, my favorite too.

  136.  #136Mandy on March 16, 2015 at 12:30 pm

    Ugh, I feel weak in my knees and tummy..

    I finally wote a note to J saying I don’t know how much longer I can take this and that I want him to go find a counselor and set up an appointment…and did it with the advice in the blog that Labbit sent me, I believe.

    So there goes…I guess I feel relieved…sort of…

  137.  #137Lovergirl on March 16, 2015 at 12:59 pm

    @104 Silver Tongued Siren-

    Oh, that would make me positively LIVID! Having a talk about not undermining the other in parenting decisions would be hard too. Hope it goes well. I would love to say so much more on that topic, but this isn’t the place for a vaccination debate. Long story short, I chose to wait until my children were older than the recommended schedule, due to my oldest son’s reaction to the vaccines as a baby. If someone had forced them on him I would have been very scared.

  138.  #138Lovergirl on March 16, 2015 at 1:13 pm

    So I put off the new guy on Sunday and didn’t see him. He’s definitely moving forward and very fast. He calls constantly and has even suggested getting together and taking our children places.

    It SOUNDS nice, but it FEELS too fast for me. I’m a bit overwhelmed with all the attention. He keeps calling and wanting to talk and texting. Maybe I’m the one with the commitment issues. I feel like avoiding him a lot of the time.

    He also texted the other night while I was in bed. I woke up and texted back that I was in bed, so he CALLED and then he wanted to basically talk dirty to me. I didn’t know what to say because I really hate phone sex and am not into it at all. Plus I just wanted to sleep, not hear what he wants to do to me. I hardly said anything and wasn’t very responsive. Looking back, I wish I’d found a way to cut the conversation off somehow, but I just didn’t know what to say and felt trapped into the conversation. I know he was trying to turn me on but it totally turned me off.

    Meanwhile, I saw S had updated his ad on a dating site, with pictures of himself wearing shirts I had helped him pick out on Saturday while we were shopping. He looked very nice, but I was annoyed.

    Part of me is like, well, if he is out looking on dating sites, then he obviously hasn’t found anyone yet. The other is hurt that he is looking and its not for me. I kind of wanted to say something about it, tell him I saw and that it made me feel sad. But I haven’t heard from him yesterday or today yet and I wonder if its best not to let him know I even looked.

    It also makes me wonder if there is anything about ME that would make other women seem less appealing to him. It would feel good if he was out looking but no one measured up, lol. How do you get a guy to see things that way?

  139.  #139Lovergirl on March 16, 2015 at 1:13 pm

    So I put off the new guy on Sunday and didn’t see him. He’s definitely moving forward and very fast. He calls constantly and has even suggested getting together and taking our children places.

    It SOUNDS nice, but it FEELS too fast for me. I’m a bit overwhelmed with all the attention. He keeps calling and wanting to talk and texting. Maybe I’m the one with the commitment issues. I feel like avoiding him a lot of the time.

    He also texted the other night while I was in bed. I woke up and texted back that I was in bed, so he CALLED and then he wanted to basically talk dirty to me. I didn’t know what to say because I really hate phone sex and am not into it at all. Plus I just wanted to sleep, not hear what he wants to do to me. I hardly said anything and wasn’t very responsive. Looking back, I wish I’d found a way to cut the conversation off somehow, but I just didn’t know what to say and felt trapped into the conversation. I know he was trying to turn me on but it totally turned me off.

    Meanwhile, I saw S had updated his ad on a dating site, with pictures of himself wearing shirts I had helped him pick out on Saturday while we were shopping. He looked very nice, but I was annoyed.

    Part of me is like, well, if he is out looking on dating sites, then he obviously hasn’t found anyone yet. The other is hurt that he is looking and its not for me. I kind of wanted to say something about it, tell him I saw and that it made me feel sad. But I haven’t heard from him yesterday or today yet and I wonder if its best not to let him know I even looked.

    It also makes me wonder if there is anything about ME that would make other women seem less appealing to him. It would feel good if he was out looking but no one measured up, lol. How do you get a guy to see things that way?

  140.  #140Rori Raye on March 16, 2015 at 1:59 pm

    Zeer – I do not like sounding scary – and yet – I encourage you to get private coaching immediately – or you’re going to lose this man. From what YOU say, you sound scary and unbalanced, and I don’t blame him for wanting to run from you. Any of my Certified Coaches can help you quickly. Before your session – get the ebook Have The Relationship You Want – just click on the picture, and absorb it as fast as you can before your session. Go now, too, to the Certified Coaches Directory over in the right sidebar, and hire someone. In a few weeks, I’ll have some brand new RRRCT Trained Coaches you can try out for free – and you can’t wait until then. This has to happen now.

    I’d also encourage you to go to an alternative doctor and get your hormones checked, to stop eating all gluten and dairy and potatoes and corn and sugar right now to see if anything nutritionally is impacting your emotions so strongly.

    I wish you luck, and please stay on the blog so we can track your progress and help you along.

    For you – this is going to be like AA for alcoholics. You need support to do the Tools and find your equilibrium. You need to find yourself. Now. Love, Rori

  141.  #141Liquid Light on March 16, 2015 at 2:52 pm


    Your reactions to important things in your life sound really ambivalent. You say that you are “annoyed” that your bf is posting new photos to his dating profile, and that you seemed mildly upset when you got unexpectedly pregnant, and ditto when you had a miscarriage. Are you depressed because your reactions seem really mild compared to the severity of the situation? Have you been to a therapist or doctor to get checked for depression or other health issue? I’m not trying to be critical but from a unbiased stranger on the internet, your reactions often really strike me as alarmingly nonchalant.

  142.  #142Lovergirl on March 16, 2015 at 6:18 pm

    Liquid Light 138-

    He’s not technically my “boyfriend” and never has been, though he sure acted like one for awhile. Anyway, that and the fact that he basically “broke up” with me a few weeks ago, makes it more expected that he would do something like that. So I’m not surprised. My “annoyance” was due to him wearing something I had helped him pick out.

    I’m sure if I flipped out and got all upset about it, people would be telling me that he’s just doing what he is doing and has never committed to me so I can’t expect any different. That said, I did cry about it a little last night because I felt SAD and depressed over him trying to look elsewhere. That’s the part I was debating telling him.

    He has told me before that if I didn’t have 5 kids and my circumstance were different he would definitely want to be with me for life. We didn’t meet with the original intent of becoming serious with one another, but feelings have developed on both sides. He has flip flopped a bit here and there, and then he got me pregnant (twice!), which I think was mostly him going with his *feelings* rather than his rationality, in the heat of the moment. I just really wish he would come around.

    I’m not sure why you think I was only “mildly” upset about the pregnancy and miscarriage. Maybe because I said I felt numb? I definitely did some grieving and crying over it and still do. I do tend to detach for a bit during hurtful life circumstances though. I learned to disassociate, probably because I had a lot of traumatic things happen to me as a child and abuse that I had no other way of coping with.

    I’ve been to therapists a few times, and honestly didn’t find them very helpful. They would marvel at how “normal” I am despite such a difficult life or seem to feel more upset about it than I did. I’ve had to be emotionally tough enough to survive. That’s just how it is or I would have fallen apart a long time ago.

    I end up feeling like I have to play things down even more or help THEM cope with my life, lol. So in that way, being able to detach or disassociate may not be “healthy” but its what has kept me from being a drug addict or something (like both of my parents).

  143.  #143Sophie on March 16, 2015 at 6:56 pm

    I did leaning forward again – yuk – I find someone who offers some kind of company (comfort) and sexual chemistry and i’m miss lean forward, not using my brain again. I feel mad with myself, but am trying to love that part anyway. Still, I have a lot of time in one day to fill and am often uncertain about what to do with myself – meeting new people would be good…though not sure how….going to do some affirmations. I’m feeling impatient with other people’s paces but it’s a lesson for me to learn. I don’t even know my feelings half the time so I don’t know why I expect other people to….

  144.  #144Sophie on March 16, 2015 at 7:01 pm

    anyway, i wasn’t that leany forward and he contacted me first …. I feel leany forward though …. but I could have been very leany forward with lots of inappropriates and I wasn’t so yay me – I want to pull my energy back from this one though I’m taking the oars just that little bit to much sometimes (and I have way too much energetic focus on it)

  145.  #145Zia on March 16, 2015 at 7:06 pm

    Lovergirl – he is not your boyfriend, so no I do not think that telling him you feel sad over the fact he is looking elsewhere will help. In fact it will probably push him further away. He does not need to know that. The best thing for you is to work through your sadness and feelings on your own.

  146.  #146Zia on March 16, 2015 at 7:12 pm

    Lovergirl – and the other thing is, words are meaningless ultimately. Absolutely nothing. It does not matter what he says he would or could do if things were different. Don’t buy into that. It is safe for him to say “if you didn’t have 5 kids I would be with you”, because he can come across as saying something nice without any need to follow through. It’s like when he said that he was sad about not raising a child together, but then started accusing you of trapping him once you said maybe the pregnancy was still viable. That pattern practically yelled at me from the screen. He went from being able to safe words, to retreating in fear as soon as there was any hint of possibility of following through. He’s just telling you words. His ACTIONS are ALL that ever matter and ever should. His actions are telling you he’s not your boyfriend. His actions are telling you he is comfortable having you help him with his work stuff and nothing more. His actions are telling you that he is looking elsewhere. BELIEVE HIS ACTIONS.

  147.  #147Linda on March 16, 2015 at 7:53 pm

    Labbitt @ 124 … Yes I know that in order for things to work between two people.. you have to accept them they way they are. This man and I have quite a history and I broke it off with him for good 9mos ago. I never felt accepted or cherished by him. He can be quite wonderful and then instantly not be. Hence the mine field reference I made. Anyway thank you for your input.

    Victoria @ 107… I liked what you said and love the way you put it. If there is love there then let it grow.

    FW@119 … That is an excellent question and I am glad you asked. Practice I think. I have felt quite intrigued that P has never gone totally away. He has maintained contact every now and then with messages or a post card, a text. It seemed about every 2 to 3 weeks . I ignored them all but it kept this slight connection going. My heart has been all closed and zippered up toward him. (and actually lots of things really). In January I decided I needed to unzipper my heart and receive what life was bringing me. There he was again.. asking to see me etc. I dunno I thought … what the heck He is either sincere or I he will go away. I am practicing being as authentic as I can.

    I certainly do no like what he said but up unto that text, sugar wouldn’t have melt in his mouth. Maybe I can teach him how to treat me. Believe me I have and am still treating myself very well.

    You may not agree that it was a good idea to talk to him again or see him but I feel it will settle things once and for all.

  148.  #148Andrea on March 16, 2015 at 8:03 pm

    Finally I feel solid and satisfied with the appropriateness of being single at this time. I am finishing up my college degree and have my first interview for a position that I feel positive I was absolutely made for.
    Strangely though, I feel off balance, shifting, tumultuous during this time as well. I’m not eating healthfully or taking care of myself physically the way I’d been trying to these past months since the new year.
    I feel I’m punishing myself for something.
    Rori’s article here about “having it all” is touching me so deeply.
    It is a difficult shift for me to go from feeling so needy and dependent on male opinion, relationship, and acceptance of me, to autonomy, self awareness, and a realization that I MATTER whether or not a man believes so.
    This is an extremely strange change for me. And I have to keep reminding myself to give myself permission to believe in myself. Even without a man’s approval.

    I can’t remember ever being completely free of needing some man to validate me. Whether it was my father, pastor, teachers, professors, bosses, relationships, lovers, crushes, brothers etc…. I have always felt a clawing hunger to be evaluated and measure up to some man’s ideal.
    (I know this is due to the way I was raised.)
    But now, with help from my therapist and this board and Rori’s tools and life lessons, I am learning how to truly focus on myself. It is inspiring, but I also feel scared and guilty as though it is something I’m not supposed to be doing or feeling.

    Interestingly, this change in me is allowing me to see the intention of men very clearly when they approach me. I’m feeling able to quickly pick up on whether a man is good for me or not.

    When I go out I get hit on frequently, but right away sense .. “No, I’m not interested.”
    Right now, the bulk of the men who are hitting on me are the type I would have gone for in the past; they are fun, gregarious, full of laughter, but invariably let it be known right away that they are just looking for a one time fun time. Some are too young for me. Some are married. Some have girlfriends. etc..

    For once, I’m able to say nicely, “Thank you, but I’m going to go over there now… you stay here.”

    Hahaha.. I actually did use that on someone Friday night.

    I feel clean though. I am sweeping out the old vibrations, the old energy, and as I’m doing so, It seems like all that gunk is right up on the surface of my aura field. So right now, I’m attracting all the caricatures of my old ways.
    It feels so delicious that I’m finally being able to say very simply.. “No, this type is no longer working for me.”
    And without guilt or anger or any clinging vibe, I’m able to just politely say, “Thank you for your interest in me, but I’m not interested in you.”

    And that has been okay. So far, I have not yet met a man I am interested in. And that feels okay for now. It really feels great actually to not have that pining type of giving my energy away to some man that I think I want.
    I’m starting to realize that I was using those types of situations to punish myself and to beat myself up about not being good enough for THAT particular man and trying to use that desire for that man as a way to motivate myself to change. Change into what I thought he might want in a woman. I don’t have anyone like that in my life and it feels like it’s been a long long time since I’ve been free of that awful beating myself up behavior.

    I feel excited and hopeful about my new resume. I feel creative and in control as though I’m creating a new story for the next phase of my life. I feel like a new person and that without the old energy hanging off of me in muddy soggy confusion, I will soon be attracting a whole a new reality.

    And yet, I still have to allow these pangs of guilt and these feelings of despair over shifting realities to move through me and shake up my equilibrium. Right now I love it that Gemini Girl said this: My only job is to LOVE me, tend to me, tend to my feelings of fear, my feelings of wakefulness and transparency and vulnerability, my feelings of discomfort because I’m starting to BE someone I’m not used to being. Feeling these feelings and breathing through them and revealing them to my therapist is so strange and scary. Yet… there is hope!

    I do believe I can have it all. By that, I mean, I do believe that I can have a career that I’m passionate about, confident in, happily creatively inspirational to others, and I believe I can have a joyful home life with my daughters and my family, and I believe that I can have a tender, flaming hot, sexy, giving partnership with a man who adores me and whom I am able to love with all my heart and trust. I believe I can be content and bubbling over with laughter and feel secure and confident about being Andrea.

  149.  #149heroine on March 16, 2015 at 8:05 pm

    Dear Rori,

    I am writing because I feel really sad…I know this might sound silly but I watched the movie “Fifty Shades of Grey” and I felt down because well because I remembered when I was a teenager and believed in romance and love.
    I am confronting my own feelings of hopelessness and my cynicism. I just dont believe that kind of love and commitment exists anymore…my dating life is currently disappointing (just sleazy and douchie guys) …I just dont believe there is romance and heroic men out there and I think the only options for me are: Be lonely or Settle-for-less.
    I guess I am writing you so you can tell me I’m wrong.

  150.  #150Liquid Light on March 16, 2015 at 9:14 pm

    There’s someone at work, a new designer, who was assigned to one of my projects and shadow me to learn the ropes. But instead, she choose to compete with me and show me up in meetings and such. She actually had the gall to talk over me in one of the early meetings, and then proceeded to make recommendations about the design direction when she didn’t even understand the requirements. Just unbelievable. So she came up with some initial designs as I was too busy to do work on them because of my other projects. They were basically all wrong and reflected her lack of knowledge about the requirements but also basic design principles. I did a lot of hand holding to get her designs up to snuff and when she still gave me attitude, I came down on her hard. I’ve taken over the design since I completed one of my major deliverables today and have time to focus on it again. And I have no confidence in her. Now, I feel like I have no mercy for her because of her lack of basic respect and need to compete with me. I started out genuinely trying to help her but then she choose to out-do me. If she wants it that way, I’ll go there and she will lose.

  151.  #151Indigo on March 16, 2015 at 10:19 pm

    Lovergirl 139,

    I relate to a lot of what you are saying here, and your experience.

    I decided a long time ago that the experiences I had growing up were not going to break me. They were upsetting and it would have been understandable on some level for me to have “crumbled” and broken down and not been able to cope. But all I can say is that that just wasn’t me. I decided to excel and be normal and not allow anyone or any experience to break me for good. It was just an internal drive that I had, to survive. Somehow I had the message that I needed to toughen up to get myself through it all. There were worlds of pain going on underneath and I came close to breaking down when I was a lot younger, but for the most part the outside world did not know any of this. I did dissociate a certain amount from my trauma and my feelings to achieve this. And mind you, for what it’s worth, I don’t think this is a bad thing. We do what we need to do to survive, and to thrive in our own way. We all need to find our own way to cope and to succeed. People certainly had opinions about the choices I made, but they were not me and they did not have to walk in my shoes.

    I strongly relate to what you said about therapists. I have not found them much help either, for the same reason you state. They spent half their time getting me to dredge up my past and talk about it over and over, and the other half validating me for how emotionally balanced I am in spite of it. I ask you, what help is that? They seemed to have a preconceived notion of how I should have reacted to my childhood and I felt babied I suppose. For me, the past is the past – I understand it, have made peace with it, forgave all those involved and want to move forward now. I find coaching to be far more effective as it deals with the here and now, and gives you tools to transform your life now. For me, coaching is magical and dynamic. I have no wish to be weighed and measured and diagnosed by a therapist thank you very much! I am practical, and I live in there here and now. Without wishing to make light of their suffering, the very fact that a quarter of the US population has been diagnosed as “depressed” to me shows that there is something very wrong with this system.

  152.  #152Indigo on March 16, 2015 at 11:25 pm

    Labbit 125,

    Yay!! Ring browsing at Tiffany’s sounds so wonderful! 🙂

  153.  #153Indigo on March 16, 2015 at 11:26 pm

    Yay Andrea! Good luck for your interview!

  154.  #154Needhelpx on March 17, 2015 at 4:37 am

    Hello Rori,
    I need urgent help! I think that my live in boyfriend/partner of 5 years is about to leave me!! We have been living together for over a year and before he moved in, I felt that I was cool and in control, but since he moved in, the balance has been tipped. About once a month we gave a disagreement about something(usually initiated by me after being disappointed or resentful of him over something), then we don’t really talk for anything from a day to a few days, and then we start talking again.
    A few months ago, after one of these episodes, he said he didn’t think we were working, wanted to leave and didn’t want to even work on anything. This was a shock to me. I told him at that time that we should work on our issues (both of us feeling that we are doing too much in this relationship), and keep our 5 year relationship. He agreed, said he did love me and wanted to make it work. (This is after he told me there is nothing we can do to make it work). I don’t know which version to believe.
    Anyway, a few months on, we are in the same situation. He is a very stubborn person, he would rather do something to damage himself just to be right. I worried all along that he would soon tell me he wants to leave again, I even got palpitations for a few months, went to hospital to check it out, they said it wasn’t serious, and probably due to stress.
    For 3 days now, we have been cold to each other, initiated by me again, because my legs were hurting and I asked him to do something for me and he said no. I felt that he never likes to help me, and anyway I was so angry I couldn’t speak to him. Once this starts, it’s difficult to reverse, because it becomes a situation of who backs down first. In the end, I approached him as he was going to work, he said again “this is going nowhere”. I feel totally angry, scared, and ashamed of having yet another failed relationship. I am in my late 30s.
    My question is this: how should I approach the situation when he gets back from work? He said we will talk but usually when he says that it’s bad news. If he says he wants to leave me, should I even say anything or just agree and let him get on with it? How do I change my energy from the desperation and scaredness to something better?
    Thanks xx

  155.  #155Mistea1 on March 17, 2015 at 5:51 am

    Love it, you are doing so well.

  156.  #156Kim on March 17, 2015 at 5:53 am

    129 and 130, ha Victoria, you did nail it! 😉
    Yes I also believe it was his sister sabotaging all of our weekend…whether consciously or unconsciously but this is about his boundaries, which he hasn’t got with anyone not even his ex and that’s why it bugged me, I just don’t like getting stood up when other people pull the strings and mess with MY precious time,
    I did my best to explain to him that this will never happen again and I simply will not be available next time unless a firm plan is made, which is fair I think and I am letting go of this issue now.
    He is a good guy, whether he is really the man for me, well we will see. Who knows.
    I go back and forth a lot.
    I am full of life and fun and that side of me needs feeding with a man who is the same. I don’t know he is or isn’t, not even after almost 2 years, I think this whole slowness about things is having me cool off a lot about him.
    Indecision, slowness, hesitation just makes me feel all of that stuff too, rather than excitement, thrill, fun, risks….you have to take risks in love and life. Commitment is a risk. Buyig. A ring is a risk. Getting married is a risk.
    Those things are all risks that, if you are not a risk taker, you will just never take, with any woman. Or wait for the woman to instigate everything.
    I had a great day yesterday with an opposite spectrum man…alpha, driven, older, wonderful house, little boat…the guy is a friend of my girlfriend…he had no hesitation inviting 3 girls, two of which he had never met, on a day outing boating….a lot of responsibility…it was a fab day.
    This guy was catering to three women the whole day long, and didn’t sweat about it, was pretty interesting to watch, was also a great day. He invited me for dinner sometime in the future…
    Of course, my guy must have smelled this and was texting me all day long which he never does…too funny.
    This whole dynamic is so interesting to me, that men get so inspired by us hanging out with others and having fun….I am even going this far: had I been boating with another guy that fateful weekend, believe me he’d have firmed up his plans for that Sunday or Monday…lol.
    It kinda sucks but I think all is means is just never to stop CDing even just in a friendly not romantic way and never to stop being a challenge for a man…ok, fine! 😉
    I vow to myself to never abandon me and my fun personality and just keep doing what I am doing and accept offers from other guys for fun days out.

  157.  #157Kim on March 17, 2015 at 5:58 am

    Labbit, I feel excited reading your post….about the ring shopping…and your whole attitude around all of this, love, love, love 🙂

  158.  #158Azure Blu on March 17, 2015 at 6:59 am

    well Sirens….
    Rori’s tools continue to do their magic on ME
    and MY heart!

    and of course ALLLL the wonderful day to day
    sharing that you all share here on Siren Island

    When Spirit and I broke it off a month ago…
    I looked in the mirror and saw how I was making ME
    invisible!!! (I was blaming HIM for that)
    Ignoring me, not taking care of ME, NOT doing alll the things that I need to do to STOP ignoring ME!!
    A Giant break through… another layer to peal back!!
    Seeing how much I expect a man to
    Entertain ME
    Save ME

    I saw MORE CLEARLY what Rori means by
    REALLY get a life for ME…

    Sooo I needed to do something different…
    signed up for Tango lessons,
    I got OFF online dating (burned out)
    started Italian lessons
    and signed up for more volunteering with
    my local food bank…
    NEW stuff for me…
    I FELT MORE interesting immediately…
    I WAS MORE interested in ME :-))

    I was missing Spirit sooo much… full moon…
    I reached out – leaned forward… a week ago… texted him -“i’m sitting with my cat looking at the moon”
    he asked to meet me at our fave. pub…
    We just talked…
    HE started talking about how to make a relationship
    work… He said he had been reading
    A LOT about using feeling messages to communicate
    to your girl friend…
    I said “How cool is that!!! I’ve been trying to do that too.”
    I mentioned I didn’t want an on-again-off-again relationship.
    He said he had been seeing this woman..
    Nice and fun… BUT soooo bossy… wouldn’t let him
    lead… like I DO!!!
    Always telling him to call her, not leaving him alone…
    (made him MISS me!!!)

    I started listening level 3… working on stopped my habit of NOT respecting the man I’m with (my armor against intimacy)…
    I realized HOW MUCH I DON’t Respect the man!
    Be MORE kind and
    Stop alll the nit picking!!


    and I decided to just let good times happen…
    and Stop – pushing – shuving him into what I want…
    Thursday we met at a restaurant (we were both out that night) and he started telling me how much he loves me do I love him?… Yes, Yes, i said!!!
    He was soooo romantic and loving…
    told me how he loves how vulnerable I am…
    we spent the night together… HE was soo open with me… and I was able to be open with him…
    cause I was feeling better about ME

    last night he asked for a relationship… WOW!!!
    He has been running after me as the PRIZE –
    Because I was setting ME up as THE PRIZE
    that Degree of Difficulty
    this man is used to women swarming allll over him
    RORI’s tools are perfect!!!

    I have decided to give this 2 months (not telling him)
    I still need to go over to his house (BUT i am NOT going to ask anymore)
    I want to practice, being respectful, appreciating ALLL he brings me… and using feeling messages for MY feelings good and bad…

    Ask him if he can think of solutions for issues that come up (our extreme religious and political differences)… I constantly say that challenges CANT be worked out… I want to change that!!
    So tonight he asked me out (a day ahead) for St. patricks day!!! First time we have been out as an
    Honest to god, couple… Mmmmm… can I handle the intimacy Sirens!!!
    love you all

  159.  #159Victoria on March 17, 2015 at 7:01 am

    You have my full support!
    I am personally constantly looking to trade up, lol. This is of course a less nice way of saying I always CD (I have always done this, it is just how I am built, I have great difficulties with being loyal/commited to one man).
    Does not make me a happier or more balanced than the next woman, but I tend to have a lot of fun.
    So, from one fun-loving siren to another, you go girl!

  160.  #160Victoria on March 17, 2015 at 7:04 am

    I am so happy for you!
    You are fantastic!
    You are an inspiration!
    Brava, brava, brava!

  161.  #161Sophie on March 17, 2015 at 7:14 am

    Åzure Blu – amazing I feel so happy for you too – I am going to learn from you. I feel challenged tonight with the lean back. I feel in controlling energy. Not doing anything though, just trying to chill by myself – nothing much is soothing me last few days…because I got my energies all mixed up with someone else who isn’t being who I need him to be ha ha – though he is being himself…and that’s not all bad…crazy how off balanced it can make me feel so quickly. I had another ‘promise’ earlier. I didn’t even reply. I feel angry energy.

  162.  #162Sophie on March 17, 2015 at 7:18 am

    151 – KIM i understand the first part of that from what i’m experiencing right now, confused cd tells me what he doesn’t want to do (re.the friends he’s with etc) then I say would would feel good for me and what i’m doing, the he wants to do that. Then he doesn’t he goes with his friends. No boundaries. Åll words, no actions. I ignored his next lot of promises earlier – bored. È want some other men in my rotation REALLY badly⁄! x

  163.  #163Femininewoman on March 17, 2015 at 7:25 am

    Congrats Azure. So inspiring.

  164.  #164Andrea on March 17, 2015 at 7:47 am

    Azure!!! I feel excitement growing within me, festering embers of glittery awakening!! Spirit loves YOU Of Course he does. He misses YOU, Of course..
    BUT!!! You, all along, were missing yourself. Yes? Then you made yourself more interesting and more attractive to yourself.

    I’m hearing this. Make my self interesting TO myself.

    Yes! I am so bored with karaoke, with massage therapy and hotel industry, with watching people come and go, while I stagnate at front desk doing homework for the sake of a grade or a credit. I am bored with myself. Bored with chasing men and sex with men who offer no future, bored with writing words that no one will read, bored with watching my life pass by like an uninteresting television series.

    I want different: I feel excited when I think about event planning, promotions, writing, speaking, inspiring, health and wellness. I feel excited and juices flowing when I think about attending seminars and participating in seminars. I feel excited when I think about being a guest in the hotels, about booking my own massages, about interacting with men who are energetic, healthy, ambitious.
    Thinking about taking dance lessons myself. And cooking lessons that give examples of healthy and balanced meals.
    That excites me.

    I love it Azure.

    This new position that I’m interviewing for fits with the excitement of my new life. Graduating college fits with the excitement of my new life. Selling my massage table and being done with the service industry fits with the excitement of my new life. Avoiding bars and karaoke scenes fits with the excitement of my new life.

    Working out, yoga, green smoothies, poetry slams, ToastMasters, Dance lessons, cooking classes, moving away from the vicinity of the College Campus, getting off the online dating sites, socializing with people.. all different types of people.. who are inspiring and energetic ..

    Make me more interesting TO ME!!!! What a great testimony Azure. I feel so grateful right now.

  165.  #165Azure Blu on March 17, 2015 at 8:15 am

    Victoria, FW, Sophie, Andrea
    such a warm, loving support system
    here on Siren Island!

  166.  #166Azure Blu on March 17, 2015 at 8:16 am

    Ahhhh… I can understand your frustration with these cds…
    are they a different culture than yours?
    Are these guys from Thailand… is that where you are?

    Sometimes cultural differences are a big thing!!

  167.  #167Rori Raye on March 17, 2015 at 8:19 am

    Ned help – welcome – and I know coaching will help you turn this around fast. Chose one of my experienced Certified Coaches from the Directory and get started! Get my programs and start working this – I believe you can fix this! Love, Rori

  168.  #168Rori Raye on March 17, 2015 at 8:20 am

    heroine, you need inspiration! We’ll help with that. Now work with the ebook, and try a Certified Coach – and let’s see how fast we can make it rain men! Love, Rori

  169.  #169Azure Blu on March 17, 2015 at 8:22 am

    Yes… it was ME missing ME…
    Doing sooo many things to Ignore,
    disrespect, abandon ME…
    I have struggled with this for my whole life
    and have slowly changed some of it…
    but Like in your life
    the things that are now
    old habits.
    used to be NEW and Exciting…
    so I needed to
    DO NEW things…
    Saw more clearly how I EXPECT a man
    Save ME…
    I see more clearly the steps *I* need to take
    to do these things FOR ME!!!
    So much MORE Powerful
    Part of being Strong on the inside
    Part of being the Anchor in a relationship.
    Part of ME being able to Leaning back!

  170.  #170Azure Blu on March 17, 2015 at 8:41 am

    Andrea #161
    Soooo exciting about graduation!!! Congratulations!!
    Sounds like you have come up with some
    New and Interesting things
    To KEEP YOU Interested in YOU!!!
    Toasmasters… a good reminder for me..
    I’ve been wanting to do that tooo!!
    Warren Buffet (the gazilionaire) was asked
    what would be one thing he would recommend
    to be successful…. He said “Public Speaking”

  171.  #171Sophie on March 17, 2015 at 8:48 am

    yeah I’m still in Thailand – I’m on a chilled out island so it’s not seedy but with western men they seem to eother be in transition, not traveling alone, or here to party and have sex. I have met some more long time people but it seems I’ve raised my degree of difficulty to the point of noone can be bothered ha ha

    The younger Thai men I don’t necessarily trust yet…it would take time to get to know someone and there are a lot of western women that will sleep with them and I haven’t had a Thai man offer to take me on a date – take me home yeah but not a date (and then I’d have to make sure I was safe).

    There are also some other Thai men who talk to me via frineds and I would trust them more but they are on the fringes of Muslim beliefs and that’s a whole other world of etiquette I haven’t managed to infiltrate or understand where their boundaries do or do not lie.

    Basically, noone is asking me out. Çonfusded ÇDwas the only one but then he is unreliable because he is on his holiday with his friends and drinking too much. There wsa another english man but I think he gave up when my degree of difficulty was too high and also, even more so when I was allowing confused ÇD to step up.

    I feel lonely. I want someone’s energy coming towards me…properly…and then I lowered my degree of difficulty with confused ÇD.

    But if we turn this on me, and what I need to be doing, I don’t know the answers…

    But, if we turn this on me

  172.  #172Sophie on March 17, 2015 at 9:14 am

    didn’t mean that second turn it on me x guess i’m getting triggered a lot at least – yaaaayyyyyy 🙂

  173.  #173Kath on March 17, 2015 at 9:41 am

    Azure Blu,

    Wow! wow! wow!- I am so thrilled to read your posts. How wonderful!- and Yes!- I too truly believe in the shift in ourselves that caused the change in them!. My Guy saw that I have been totally without him or any other man for six months, he said he missed me and the good things we had. He has seen how I have changed. I know that I am no longer doing anything that doesn’t make me feel good-I have spent all of my life making other people happy by doing stuff to please them, even when it made me feel awful!. No more!- I am looking after myself first- and in the nicest, kindest way, listening to him and what he says and how he acts and then “choosing” to engage or not. And that is just it- I CHOOSE!- how fabulously wonderful to know that I have the choice! I don’t have to be resentful, nit picky, bitchy, unhappy or show any negative reaction every again!- Hoorah!!!! xxxx

  174.  #174Kim on March 17, 2015 at 10:00 am

    156 Victoria, that’s pretty much how I feel … Add to it that the ones I would feel loyal to, because they are stimulating, their mind races like mine from one thing to another and they are fun/wild yet still educated with manners..manly…well, they are like me..lol..trouble with seeing one woman as enough.
    I could easily have two boyfriends and make it work…with my energy and flippancy and need to do stuff/have fun…lol…how unethical of me. Haha!
    I have on occasion double dated…if that’s what you call it…I even went on a weekend trip with another man while going out with this one being non-exclusive (my interpretation). Worked like a dream…then I felt guilty.
    Oh well.

  175.  #175Kim on March 17, 2015 at 10:06 am

    Azure, wow, wow, wow.
    So happy for you, you sound so happy and light.
    Have a great date tonight and keep us posted!

  176.  #176Gemini Goddess on March 17, 2015 at 10:11 am

    Labbit 125 – SWOON!

    Azure Blue – Wow! all your work is paying off in spades! You are SO high value. What amazing work he’s done…as a result of YOU!

    Lovergirl and Indigo – I can relate to this. There were some pretty rotten things that happened to me growing up. I have seen therapists. They all comment on how remarkably solid I am, which I suppose is validating, but has never been helpful. I’ve always felt like I operate on a plain that they can’t seem to touch.

    I certainly understand “disassociation”. When things are rough for me even still, I have the ability to become absolutely calm and detached from the events. I can remember consciously cultivating this “skill” when I was young and things were unbearable. I’m not saying it’s good or bad, but it is useful. Riffing has helped me make sure I’m in touch with my emotions, and I’ve been filling journals for years…before I had an RR name for it.

  177.  #177Azure Blu on March 17, 2015 at 10:16 am

    Kim… thank you darling Siren!!!

    Mmmm… You are much like me…
    and that is what I kept finding with the cds… the ones that liked me were NOT as energetic OR interesting…
    I would try to make it work… BUT i noticed…
    MY energy was sooo low when I was with them and I wasn’t my playful, upbeat self… NOOOO!!!
    I married a man like that… A disaster!! :-((

    Spirit has as much energy as I do… or more,
    He is PLAYFUL, upbeat, smart, tender hearted, NOT cynical AND good looking…
    Likes people… charming, can navigate any sort of situation… and makes ME feel Adored!!!
    mmmm… lots of what I need and want in Mr. Right!!

  178.  #178Azure Blu on March 17, 2015 at 10:27 am

    GG #172
    Thank you!!! mmmm…. about Spirit changing as a result of my changes…
    Just like Dominque writes about… if they can they will change their hearts with us…
    he does have such a sensitive, tender heart!!

    Interesting how you all have handled your difficult childhoods… soo good that Rori’s methods help you all so much!!! hugggs and kisses darlings for your warm lovely hearts and how you are SUPPER THRIVING!!

  179.  #179Valarie O'Ryan on March 17, 2015 at 11:05 am

    Oh, Heroine, I understand that feeling so well – be lonely or settle for less. (or date sleazy/douchie guys)…


    That’s NOT the way it has to be! I found my hero, the man who makes me swoon AND cherishes me.

    You can have this too. I promise. Don’t fall into the trap of, “It’s not meant to be for me” – I did that for far too long.

    I’d be happy to help in any way I can and we can do a free session, if you’d like – just click on my name – I’m one of Rori’s certified coaches.

    You deserve it all, all that romance & commitment you dreamed of as a teenager.

    Xoxo, ~Valarie

  180.  #180Femininewoman on March 17, 2015 at 12:15 pm

    Hi Needhelp. My opinion is you can only agree if that is his decision. Otherwise you might end up losing your dignity and begging him to stay which would actually not make him change his decision anyway. In the meantime I encourage you to turn your attention away from the situation and deal with it in the moment he brings it up. I’d also encourage you to stop the arguing. What does it achieve anyway?

  181.  #181Kim on March 17, 2015 at 1:25 pm

    Wow, someone who only asked me out for a date about 8 months ago (it never happened but we had a date a couple years ago – he was not really for me but a super nice guy), just announced that he is getting married!
    Some people are – fast.
    I can’t help but like it.
    When a man has made up his mind…
    He was extremely alpha…so there ya go ladies!

  182.  #182Rori Raye on March 17, 2015 at 1:51 pm

    Kath! BRAVA to YOU! Love, Rori

  183.  #183Kath on March 17, 2015 at 2:21 pm

    Rori- Thank you wonderful wonderful you! xx

  184.  #184Linda on March 17, 2015 at 3:30 pm

    I am so happy reading your posts Azure! It brings a happy skippy feeling to my heart for you.

    I have never said this but… I have felt that Spirit was directed to you for lots of reason and for more reasons that just a relationship. I hope each day will be like receiving a gift you cant wait to open like Christmas morning !

  185.  #185Gemini Goddess on March 17, 2015 at 4:12 pm

    Kim 178-

    Wow! Serious cajones. I have to admit I really like that!

  186.  #186Gemini Goddess on March 17, 2015 at 4:14 pm

    Oops!… I meant “cojones”. What a type-o!

  187.  #187April Rose on March 17, 2015 at 4:58 pm

    Hello dear sirens,

    I am catching myself here. Before I get into bad habits.

    Things are going well for me and I am still feeling delighted and surprised that I get to play the feminine role in a budding relationship.

    I’m wondering what is happening in that I seem to have a lot of ‘mental’ energy coming up and it’s as if I want to start ‘sparring’ with this man, having debates and so on.

    Weird. I know it isn’t the best thing, really. And he has said it makes him feel uncomfortable!!

    I guess it is another creeping fear of intimacy, deviating me from being the feminine feeling energy partner.

    I will unzipper my heart an extra layer, and see if I can access and share the next deeper layer of feeling and emotion.

  188.  #188April Rose on March 17, 2015 at 5:00 pm

    I’m just such a virgin when it comes to masculine energy men!

    He is the very model of a thinking, rational male.

    I will lean further back into myself and be even more present with my heart and feelings.

    Yes, that is what I’ll do!

  189.  #189Linda on March 17, 2015 at 5:07 pm

    I chose singleness.. over 9 mos ago. I filled my life with some really quality time with myself. I was feeling so content and well centered. Over all this whole time in the background was the fact that I was hearing from P. It was always the same type of messages. But they all were that he loves me.. missed me… any chance he had he would text a pic or reference a good memory . Every communication contained something positive, a compliment and was loving or used as an opportunity to admitting sorrow about something he did in the past. There were even little hints about wistful thinking about sharing a bathroom in a new house together. He even let his daughter (whom I adore) communicate one evening via text around her b’day in January. February rolled around and he wanted to take me out for my b’day to which I decided I would agree to. I felt that old chemistry that I we had when we first met.

    I decided… to open up to everything that was coming at me in life… even try to embrace the new hours I hate at work now. I felt like I was beginning to see life thru a renewed set of eyes. I actually felt happy when I heard from P and began to welcome his attentions. I noticed though that as I opened up to him he started to withdraw and I told him that I felt a clear negative shift and I told him that I felt confused and wanted to clarify if I had misunderstood his intentions . He was being cautious and asked for patiences from me. I mean he was all go go go until I opened up and now he has shut down totally .

    I decided this time I was going to be more authentic and communicate my feelings more. No more stuffing and letting resentment build. I mean if things have are going to be different then I need to be me all the way. It did not feel good to be pursued and then him pull away.. The posts earlier in this thread is what I sent him via text. I am not going to hide and stuff in my life anymore. I am shocked that after all the pursuing he would start bringing up the negative things and highlighting what was wrong and shut completely down.

    What am I missing here? I totally do not get the dynamics of what is going on. I am in total lean back mode here. I dont feel piney and I genuinely could care less very quickly. I feel really confused about his behavior.

  190.  #190April Rose on March 17, 2015 at 5:14 pm


    My first impulse is to think that now you are being more authentically you, he is weeding himself out this time.

    The ‘decision’ about whether or not to have him in your life will not be an issue any further, and you can be at peace in your heart knowing you did everything in your power to make this relationship work.

  191.  #191April Rose on March 17, 2015 at 5:59 pm

    It is one thing to lose a man because we are not expressing our authentic selves – hiding our hearts, not expressing boundaries, being in masculine energy, and so on.

    It is quite another to lose a man and/or put men off because we ARE expressing ourselves authentically.

    I say Yay! and bring it on! The faster the better. Until I attract that man who can match my depth of feminine expression with his depth of masculine expression!

  192.  #192lovetodance on March 17, 2015 at 6:33 pm

    azure blu

    the excitement and happiness i feel flying off the screen reading your posts….
    and yes….
    you have worked hard uncovering, excavating, mining for the golden you…

    you are an inspiration and a delightfull catch of a siren…interesting funny savvy and hot!

    he is the lucky one…
    keep knowing how awesome you are darling
    so much love to you!

  193.  #193lovetodance on March 17, 2015 at 6:45 pm

    labbitt and gemini goddess

    thank you sooooo much for your detailed responses to my last post…

    i have been in sorta a netherland

    i will be back with an update as to my unfolding….

    i have been so busy with life….so much going on internally and externally…

    i need time to catch up with the sirens here….to feel into the stories and events and reflections….

    hopefully things will slow down enough for me soon so i can get back here and be present


  194.  #194Emerson on March 17, 2015 at 7:50 pm

    It feels fun to realize a man is intrigued when I notice him “mirroring” me…I smooth my hair back and he smooths his as well, I tilt my head to one side and smile and he does too, hehe I LOVE it….got some yummy masculine energy from a coworker that I have noticed lately is very attractive, quiet, smart and kind! xoxo sirens I owe all of this feminine energy to you and Rori for giving me the bravery to be that way… 🙂

  195.  #195Indigo on March 17, 2015 at 10:09 pm

    April Rose 188,

    Love this! :

    “It is one thing to lose a man because we are not expressing our authentic selves – hiding our hearts, not expressing boundaries, being in masculine energy, and so on.

    It is quite another to lose a man and/or put men off because we ARE expressing ourselves authentically.”

    I think the same goes for all people in our lives – friends, co-workers, maybe even family members. And lovers. When we start blossoming and growing and especially healing, and coming into our authentic selves, there will people who just weed themselves out, fall by the wayside. It is no longer comfortable for them to be around you. They feel threatened or exposed, or… something. I say this is a good thing.

  196.  #196Indigo on March 17, 2015 at 10:14 pm


    Here is my take. I have noticed that many men who cannot do relationship have certain fantasies about their lives in which they cast themselves as the devoted boyfriend/caring partner/besotted lover. They play these fantasies out for themselves from time to time because it makes them feel like a good guy, it makes them feel better about themselves, it gives them a bit of a high and they get to enjoy that rush of good feelings. They get to play act that they can be that devoted partner for a while. But it’s just a fantasy, they can’t sustain it.

    I feel really glad that you are not too invested in it, and that you will not get too badly hurt by it.

  197.  #197Zia on March 17, 2015 at 11:12 pm

    I find it amazing that when I first came on this blog two years ago I was an utter mess after yet another horrible breakup, after years of broken relationships and pain. The other day my boyfriend took me past a jewelry shop so I could show him what style of ring I like 🙂 I absolute have Rori to thank for this.

  198.  #198Zia on March 17, 2015 at 11:13 pm

    And btw – I never even got that far with the guy I was in a toxic relationship for 9 years…..

  199.  #199Victoria on March 17, 2015 at 11:54 pm

    @ Linda 186.
    I think that while you were sepatated he was probably chasing more than one woman. Obviously he still had feelings for you, but given the fact that you were no longer a couple, there has been absolutely no reason for him not to be intrerest in other women. This is the only rational behavior you can expect from a single person, male or female. The way I read this “please be patient with me” means, to me, that he was something going on with another woman (possibly more than one), and he needs to make up his mind which one he likes better, and which one would give him a better feeling of control (men call this leadership :-). Now that he has a viable plan B (the other woman) he also has the guts to bring out old stuff and see whether you would allow him to have the upper hand in the relationship.
    This is my opinion, and of course, you could totally disregard it if it makes no sense from you, and it could totally might be a projection of my own life experience. I am a competitive person, and I tend to smell competition…What I leart from Rori and this wonderful blog is that the effective way to deal with both women and with hesistant men is to “outgirl them”… I am choosing, for me, to be the softer, sweeter, nicer, more generous, more relaxed, more beautiful person.
    I would like to share with you you my favorite Rumi poem:
    It is all a love contest.
    And I never lose.
    Now you have one more good reason
    to spend more time with me.

  200.  #200Victoria on March 18, 2015 at 12:03 am

    I had two very nice dates with F. in the last two days.
    He has missed me terribly and he was sooooo jealous. I felt very well, very happy, very satisfied with the energy with which he was claiming me. He has not said/done anything dramatic, but his vibe is different. He has been complaining that I abandoned him! Ha! He has discovered, during my absense, that there is nothing in his life to feel the emptiness when I am gone, and he feels he is so miserable without me. To this, I say, another “ha”.
    Given the fact that he has had me so available and easily accessible to him, he must have really taken this for granted and was shocked that I can just disappear at one point. Mind you, I did not do it deliberately, I was genuinely extremely busy and overwhelmed with other tasks. And, because of that, a large part of my chemical addiction to him is gone… while his seems to be growing with my absense.
    Soooo, what is there for me, but lean back and enjoy?
    Let’s see where this goes.

  201.  #201April Rose on March 18, 2015 at 3:44 am


    I feel hugely intrigued by what you say in your comment 193

    I have been pondering on this very thing recently.

    How/when will we know that a guy CAN do relationship for the long term?

    Do we only find out when conflict arises? Or uncomfortable situations?

    Or can we tell some of this early on in a relationship? Like experiencing how a man ‘picks up the ball’, so to speak?

  202.  #202April Rose on March 18, 2015 at 3:45 am


    Is there a difference between a guy who can ‘heal along with us’ and a guy who simply can’t do relationship?


  203.  #203Indigo on March 18, 2015 at 4:02 am

    April Rose 198 & 199,

    I wish I knew the answer to this one, sadly I do not. I suspect the answer is somewhere along the same lines as how long is a piece of string, because every man is different.

    I have researched this topic too – and my take is that time is the best indicator of whether a guy can do relationship and/or heal along with us, or whether he can’t. Are the basic signs of commitment there? Are the fundamentals of relationship there – love, trust, respect? Do you seem to get closer and more intimate over time? Is there healing and working through of issues? Does he demonstrate a strong desire to be with you and not run away? Is he emotionally aware and mature? If these things are present these are very good signs. These are not things you can know in the first couple of weeks or months, you just have to let things keep unfolding as long as it still feels good. When things start to feel bad, that is when you take a step back and reevaluate.

  204.  #204Femininewoman on March 18, 2015 at 4:17 am

    Indigo/April I believe one basic thing can be an early indication. Can he relax around you and look deeply in your eyes? If he avoids that eye contact is an indication in my view of where he is at mentally.

  205.  #205April Rose on March 18, 2015 at 4:20 am

    Thank you Indigo,

    Your answer feels wonderful. I will make a note of it and keep it to refer to as I get to know a man more and more.

    Just one thing; “Is he emotionally aware and mature?”
    What are the signs that he is or isn’t?

  206.  #206April Rose on March 18, 2015 at 4:23 am

    Oh Femininewoman,

    One of the things I love so much – and feels so intimate with this man – is that he asks me to look at him so that he can look at me.
    His eyes gazing into mine seem to touch right into my core, and it takes my breath away.
    I feel soooo vulnerable having a man look at me that way.
    And, it feels so beautiful and connecting.

  207.  #207Sophie on March 18, 2015 at 4:42 am

    I think I’m messing up my scripting 🙁 it’s this unreliability thing – I undertsand why he’s unreliable and I have a conflict between I don’t want to be like come see me come see me – which is maybe in my energy and don’t be unreliable, I feel too vulnerable for it all – I’m trying to be honest but worried I just seem desperate rather that;s cool – ha ha maybe that’s okay? authentically desperate?

  208.  #208Victoria on March 18, 2015 at 5:05 am

    @ Indigo and April Rose.
    How to know whether a man is ready to do a relationship (long-term and committed with a view on marriage).
    There are certain “objective” elements such as the man’s age, where he is professionally, and whether the majority of his friends have tied the knot. I read somewhere that a strong motivating factor for men to get married is the desire to be an active father to their future children, especially their sons.
    Subjectively, men need to feel they know the woman, and to think/feel that she is wonderful in all aspects. They would normally need 1-2 years to feel they are sufficiently familiar with her. As for what makes a woman wonderful: I think the combination of strong inside, soft outside sums it up quite well.

    I have it all figured out, haven’t I, lol.

  209.  #209Azure Blu on March 18, 2015 at 6:21 am

    WOW…. what a wonderful testimonial
    to the power of the Rori tools!
    I feel so happy, sparkly rush of spring
    for YOU and your Mr. Right!

  210.  #210Femininewoman on March 18, 2015 at 6:37 am

    RE 205 My experience also is that a man will say it. For the most part, they are simple and direct that way.

  211.  #211Victoria on March 18, 2015 at 6:47 am

    Yes, my experience is also that a man will say it.
    Also, when a woman is in the position of the Prize, she knows it. And, it is a very fine feeling, mmmmm.

  212.  #212Azure Blu on March 18, 2015 at 7:12 am

    lovetodance #189
    soooo wonderful to hear from you..
    Thank you, Thank you for your heartfelt words of encouragement!!
    They make me feel cherished and soured up for the next part of my journey with Spirit and being soft on the outside and strong on the inside!!

    Good to hear you are happily busy with your journey…
    oxoxo ohhhh… lovely, warm beautiful YOU!!

  213.  #213Azure Blu on March 18, 2015 at 7:29 am

    April Rose #184,
    How great that you are “catching” yourself with the mental masculine sparing you are doing with this guy…
    and Trying to understand why…
    It sounds like your solution of leaning further back…
    and unzippering your heart when your with him…
    and when you are apart…

    It feels sooo cool that he let you know he was feeling uncomfortable with it.
    I’m so happy you are enjoying this yummy, exciting early time of getting to know each other…
    what a delightful time of year to be in a crush!!!

  214.  #214Azure Blu on March 18, 2015 at 7:31 am

    April Rose, #203
    Ahhhh…. Sighhhh…

  215.  #215HeartBeat on March 18, 2015 at 7:52 am

    Hi Rori 🙂
    Today I stayed open to my feelings.
    I walked around to my appointments in a dress. Feeling my hips sway, my legs exposed to the soft sunlight and my new haircut brushing the nape of my neck affectionately. I practiced taking regular soft deep breaths and I kept the channel with all my feelings in it open.
    Since doing this for just even a few hours today, I’m noticing that my ‘feeling channel’ feels stronger, and rather than feeling capsized and disorientated by their appearance, I feel grateful, interested and close to tears.
    “Keep the music playing! She’s listening!!”
    Thank you making me aware of this part of myself.
    I can feel tears on my face, like I’m welcoming an old so lovable friend home. Thank you.

    I had an interaction today that I would like some help to understand better from a Rori Raye point of view.
    I’m feeling a bit gross and shakey about it.
    (I feel amazed how empowered and stronger I feel just admitting my feelings, like any struggle with them just drops out of me once I admit it to myself, like I’m swimming WITH the current again)

    I would like to feel clearer about backing up.
    Is this an afterthought or a big important piece of keeping ourselves and our feminine healthy and safe?
    Today I interacted with a man and lots of feelings came up. I felt distressed, unsafe, disorientated, tense, heavy and physically sick.
    Am I right in understanding that the Masculine’s solution to this can be to lean in, get creative and fix it (using masculine energy to organize, stabilise and uplift our interactions.) whereas the feminine equivalent is to step back?
    I discovered today that I felt frozen and distressed. Like the thought of backing up hadn’t even occurred to me consciously and then I felt guilty, like stepping back was ‘bad’, ‘not nice’.
    Despite this, sitting here and even just thinking about stepping back (leaving the interaction, not accepting another invitation from him etc and saying no) has my feelings kissing all through my insides, “Yes Honey! Thank you for letting your instincts follow through!!”

    I would like to hear how much you think being able to comfortably and confidently respond to your own feelings and step back is important and in your experience, does this improve with practice?
    Is your ‘stepping back muscle’ a big contributor to the Strong in Strong Surrender?

    I realise that stepping back sounds very straight forward and that you have talked about it in different ways before. I feel embarrassed vocalising this to you.
    But responding to my feelings to protect myself and keep myself safe feels very new (and exciting and scary) to me. I realise I sound like I’m asking you blatantly obvious questions, but I genuinely feel a bit shocked and awed – “Really.. We don’t have to stay? We don’t have to stay somewhere that feels bad?”
    In the same way I don’t want to lean forward, I don’t want to feel trapped either.

    After being introduced to your programs and information Rori, I feel like a whole new way of operating and existing in the world has opened up for me and I feel free and supported and grateful!
    I wanted to express myself and share with you something that might be very familiar to you, but it is new and sparkling to my eyes..
    I can feel my chest shining and my eyes welling up with tears, I feel so grateful.. thank you Rori..

    Heart Beat

  216.  #216Azure Blu on March 18, 2015 at 7:56 am

    LL #83
    YAY you!!! I LOVE BMW…
    my fiance bought me a Z4 many years ago as a Valentines present!
    Sooo fun for you… keep us up to date with the purchase!

  217.  #217Azure Blu on March 18, 2015 at 8:19 am

    Kath #170
    Thank you for your words…
    I read your post about your ex coming back…
    Congratulations on that! #90
    Sounds so good to hear he has worked on making changes for HIM!!
    to me that feels soooo sexy when a man works on HIS life to make changes for the ones he loves!!

    And you too… understand what YOU have blamed him for when actually
    They were YOUR issues…
    WOW!!! life changing…
    Lovely, warm Kath!!

  218.  #218Azure Blu on March 18, 2015 at 8:24 am

    Linda #181
    Ahhh… gentle siren,
    Thank you!!!

    I’ve been reading your posts about P…
    I agree with others…
    The best is when YOU are able to ask for what YOU want… set your boundaries… be vulnerable and authentic…
    and IF HE CAN step up…
    Looks like he isn’t able to do that…
    Spring is THE perfect time
    to clean house and open the door
    to a better man!!

  219.  #219Azure Blu on March 18, 2015 at 8:26 am

    Linda I agree with AR #187
    He has weeded himself out…

  220.  #220Azure Blu on March 18, 2015 at 8:30 am

    Victoria #197
    Ah Haaaa!!!
    This is GREAT! I feel happy for you!
    “I was genuinely extremely busy and overwhelmed
    with other tasks.
    And, because of that,
    a large part of my chemical addiction
    to him is gone…
    while his seems to be growing
    with my absense.”

  221.  #221Mistea1 on March 18, 2015 at 8:35 am

    Enjoying all the posts while I wait out the quieting down of the chemical rush. I always had a sensitivity to drugs, even too much caffeine can throw me over the edge. I assume this is much the same.

    I’ve incorporated surrogate EFT as well, wishing for the best for him as he is suffering. MusicTd has a whole real family that I’m sure would take him back. I read background on this type of narcissism and how the family dynamic is so affected. Very sad. I hope he can realize this at some point. Apparently his ex wife never remarried either.

    He even found me at the new church and came to a recital there. I quietly left by a side door so as not to trigger myself. It was only a slight wave at the time and I was OK after I got home.

    Meanwhile Lawguy and I are still emailing using all the big words we hardly ever get to use anymore! We are having a core values discussion tucked in between as well. I’m holding out on trying for face to face contact until after the total quiet down of the other.

    Indigo 193,200,
    so wise you are. I agree about the fantasy rel. behavior and the signs are a good review.So

    Victoria 196,
    So grateful for your help and I love the poem by Rumi. I copied it out.

  222.  #222Azure Blu on March 18, 2015 at 9:00 am

    Sooo Spirit and I had our first date as an actual couple… I felt curiosity about how he/I might react…

    it felt good to hear he had actually stood up to his daughter (struggling with recently diagnosed schyzophrenia- and living with him)
    and kept our date..
    She mentioned to him “Ohhh… gee… Dad… I wish I had someone, somewhere to go tonight”
    He said “I’m sure you’ll be fine”
    and left the house!!!
    I hadn’t realized how much manipulation she had been doing… thus the canceled dates etc.
    (That is Why I started cding again, 4 months ago)

    Here is an example of the MAGIC of the Rori Tools

    It wasn’t MY business to know why He was acting flaky when we first were dating…
    It WAS MY business to Know
    I didn’t like it and to keep on MY horse and
    NOT wait for HIM!!!

    Yay *HE* has seen how she is MANIPULATING him!!!
    (Thank goodness I NEVER said ANYTHING to him about any of this…
    I always said “I have sooo much respect for what a great Dad you are, how much love and support you give your daughter”)

    Ahhh… he is genuinly concerned about ME and OUR date!!!

    He planned this date on St. Patrick’s day
    which by coincidence is exactly 8 months since our first date!!

    We went to a favorite restaurant, we had guiness, fish tacos and Lots of fun!!!
    He was sooo warm and cuddly (plenty of public display of affection) which I like!!
    Boy… the difference in him…since all MY leaning WAY back, warm and inviting, holding MY boundaries and Walking Away when I didn’t like something…
    He came and CLAIMED ME!!!
    Also He had been asking me to STOP cding please…
    So when I told him I wasn’t cding anymore…(last week)
    HE became sooo much MORE loving, telling me all the time how much he loves me. how lucky he is…
    Sing me love songs!!
    I feel much more relaxed because
    I am REALLY living my life…
    I am understanding MORE than ever what
    THAT means…
    Which Is, for ME, the Key to MY happily ever after!!!

    AND I SOOO MUCH Love spending time with HIM!!!

  223.  #223Azure Blu on March 18, 2015 at 9:10 am

    {{{{Mistea}}}} #217
    Lovely, sensative, beautiful SIREN!!
    I feel goosebumps when I read how BRAVE
    and authentic and vulnerable you are
    sharing all of your journey with MusicTD…
    ahhhhhh…your beautiful siren song fills my ears…

    and SUCH LOVE you are giving YOU
    by staying away
    taking EXQUISITE care you YOU…
    So the next man
    can take EXQUISITE CARE
    of YOU!!

  224.  #224Victoria on March 18, 2015 at 9:34 am

    I am so happy for you! Fantastic first date as a couple!

    I am also thinking, that given her medical condition, he was probably careful and somewhat reserved with you in the past, in order to be sure that you gradually get to know each other well enough to be able to handle the challenge together. He is probably a very, very good man after all.

  225.  #225Victoria on March 18, 2015 at 9:42 am

    Have I really been able to help? This feels so good to hear!
    I feel pain for you because Music TD still triggers you, and I feel wishful for lawguy to be more forward coming… But then again, fate has its own logic, and things take as much time as they need to take.
    Don’t you feel like CDing with more men? Or is lawguy enough to suck your energy? Being a finance professional, I am a great supported of DIVERSIFICATION 🙂

  226.  #226Kim on March 18, 2015 at 9:46 am

    Azure Blu, I am loving your Spirit date update!
    Sounds wonderful.
    Also, this thing with his daughter….wooooooo….kinda reminded me how my guy was with his sister, except he dumped me lol. At least she isn’t here all the time, wow, but great that he stood hia ground and YOUR ground and I agree, it is not something we can demand, no, it is somethin we can maybe inspire…but not demand.

    As for me, I now seem to have acquired a hot in pursuit alpha man with boat. Lol! He has been scheming for two days already how to get us girls back onto the boat. One lives too far, the other has to work weekends, so he asked me if I wanted to come Saturday, boating with some of his friends and would I feel safe going without the other girls.
    Heck yeah.
    Interesting people, one an ex professional Dolphins player.
    I need to network more, get more confident, these are professional and successful people, sounds like I will be looked after and my guy has not made any firm plans for the weekend.
    I know he will be upset…but, I also know that I need to do things I enjoy. I have never deprived him of the opportunity to step up. He is now engrossed in putting his parents junk on ebay to sell and split the proceeds with his sister, shipping things…he has taken focus on that and not on actually moving, giving me a date, planning stuff, discussing finances with me. Everything has come to a grinding halt.
    Except me. I am not coming to a grinding halt.
    I need to have fun and I have to admit that I have given up CDing prematurely when he asked me to.
    This has not worked to my advantage, it has not inspired him to move things forward, and it has left me with a lot of free time and boredom…
    So back to square 1.
    I am single until married.
    I know this isn’t working for everyone, but I am getting out of this whole relationship thinking – I have been in many long relationships and in the end they stagnated and I feel this stagnating also, and it’s not what I want for my future.
    I feel relieved to have come to that conclusion.

  227.  #227Kim on March 18, 2015 at 9:48 am

    I am not dumping my guy, I am staying open, keep dating him sexually exclusive, but from now on I am not turning down dinner or other invites anymore.
    Game on 😉

  228.  #228Kim on March 18, 2015 at 9:58 am

    This way I can be light and fun when the whole sitting home alone and not doing anything has started to make me feel a bit needy for attention and I do believe this is what puts pressure on a man…..so all around this is going to get back to a win-win situation.

  229.  #229Victoria on March 18, 2015 at 9:59 am

    I am absolutely with you on this one! I know not everyone will, but I firmly support that you allow the Boat man to court you. And, it is not like you are going to sleep with him on that boat trip either!
    But, If I were in your shoes, I would be really scratching my head whether to be straightforward with the main guy about going boating with another man… The only disadvantage of two-timing men is that you kind of need to lie to them… I have not been able to be open to the guys I am seeing about CDing. The thing is, I really do not want to pressure them to claim me because of the competition. Mind you, I do not care about being claimed, what I want is consistent attention and fun… Will one man ever be enough to give me the intensity I need? We shall see…

  230.  #230Azure Blu on March 18, 2015 at 10:07 am

    Mmmmm… interesting about this Boat guy…
    Yes, networking is always good…
    I think Rori recommends ALWAYS CDING

    course… for me…
    I noticed lately… that I am quite a flirt
    maybe ’cause I have been single for quite a few years…
    BUT I think I have always been..
    I decided to start being less so because I don’t want to disrespect Spirit… (and I would feel disrespected if he would be overtly flirtatious when I wasn’t around) I can CD with women and people in general but to practice CDing and leaving out the “sexuality vibe”
    Always good to try new things!!

  231.  #231Femininewoman on March 18, 2015 at 10:15 am

    I dunno Azure. I get the impression that Rori wants us to remain sexually (energetically) open to everyone. Even the bum on the street.

  232.  #232Azure Blu on March 18, 2015 at 10:16 am

    Victoria #220
    I think you might be right about Spirit’s reserved approach to our dating…
    I’m fairly certain now, that he doesn’t want any interferance from his daughter… or to agitate her
    by letting her know he is serious about ME…
    He IS an alpha male and excellent at solving challenges… soooo brave!!
    I feel safe and cared for
    when I am opening my heart, leaning back
    and feeling His LOVE coming toward ME
    LETTING HIM row the boat NOT ME!!

  233.  #233Kim on March 18, 2015 at 10:17 am

    Totally agree Azure, I think cDing can mean…all sorts…including sitting on the beach with oneself!
    Playing with sand!
    I just feel so much more alive around people, men, everybody, and I am not a natural flirt..but I am easy to talk to and fun…and can be pretty gregarious with the right set of people. I have been missing this lately.
    So it’s come at the right time.
    Man in hot pursuit maybe not quite at the right time lol, but hey.
    I thinj in many ways this is serving me right now to take MY focus away from trying to get my man do things I want.
    I have had a lot of A-HA moments lately, not the band but my life lol. I see my friends – two kinds…some are positive and go for the stars. Others negative and always sad.
    How I get triggered…how I fall right in the middle but know where I want to be.
    I see men, really inspired to step up, like I said above. Sealing the deal.
    I don’t want to be a woman that has to coax a man by talks, threats or whatever else to do what I want. No.
    I want a guy who knows what he wants and this means not just out in the world but also pertaining to: me.
    No matter how scary it may be to take a jump.
    This is something I can’t make a compromise with, although I can make many compromises.
    I firmly believe things have a habit of escalating or fizzling out or coming to a logical conclusion, but I am not going to try and influence anything, I am going to simply go back to concentrating on being me, moving my life forward and having fun.

  234.  #234Kim on March 18, 2015 at 10:21 am

    227 FW….lol..this just reminded me of one particular bum on a bicycle who always flirts with me….I totally flirt back.
    I feel it kinda important to stay open…again, I don’t know if I was married and had my husband sitting next to me, maybe not, but I am often out and about alone and if a cute sexy old or young man is flirting with me, I think this is part of being alive….being a woman…I will probably only stop that when I am dead.

  235.  #235Azure Blu on March 18, 2015 at 10:21 am

    FW #227…
    Yeah… I think you are sooo right!
    But I guess I am feeling confused here…
    I started last week to reign in my flirtyness a little…

    I was observing myself…
    I know I would appreciate Spirit not being as flirtatious… but NOT loosing his energy!

    Any thoughts on this?

  236.  #236victoria on March 18, 2015 at 10:31 am

    I would never flirt in front of my man. This would be so disrespectful.quite on the contrary I want him to feel like my king. But behind his back – of course I would, why is he turning his back to me to begin with, lol.

  237.  #237Azure Blu on March 18, 2015 at 10:37 am

    I noticed he has already shown some of this…
    We were out dancing on Fri. night at a favorite dancing place in town…
    Alllll the women LOVE to dance with him…
    But usually, if he is with me, he only dances with me…
    but this one woman came up and asked him to dance…
    (they must have danced together/dated while him and I were broken up)
    he accepted… they danced… she tried to kiss and hug him at the end… he turned away and walked back over to me…
    He said… “was that ok that I danced with her?”
    I said yes… but I didn’t like her trying to hug and kiss you…
    He said: of course not… did you see how I turned away?
    That felt good!

  238.  #238Kim on March 18, 2015 at 10:38 am

    I think Victoria’s advice is totally sound…lol.
    I am sure men do it when we are not around also….what I don’t know doesn’t upset me (we even have a saying for that in my native language).
    It’s part of being human, sexy, desirable, fun and open/loving to all and everything in the world….whether men, women,cats or dogs…

  239.  #239Azure Blu on March 18, 2015 at 10:43 am

    Yes… He MUST feel like he is MY king!
    That is what I will remember…
    sooo when I’m out with Spirit… and I am talking to another guy (last night at the bar there were only men sitting at the bar and he and I were talking to lots of people) I will be VERY careful NOT to send any vibes or energy toward the other man…
    Cause I’m sure Spirit can feel that.
    I have been out with my old bf and his energy was ALWAYS going out to other women…
    It felt AWFUL… it made me feel disrespected and invisible!!!
    This is just the discussion I needed !!!
    Thank you Sirens!!!

  240.  #240Kim on March 18, 2015 at 10:44 am

    233 Azure love it!
    Reminds me of one bf I had, at a work party a female colleague sat on his lap and started flirting with him while I was there too. So disrespectful. I felt outraged.
    He just let it happen. Said he didn’t know what else to do.
    Just another sign of a man with no boundaries.
    This is what triggers me to distraction…not to have boundaries with women even though you know, and can see, that your woman is upset and rightfully so.
    I could never again be with a man like that, and for me, now, if it happened with my guy, or even if it happened again that he dumps me/ our plans and runs to help his ex with something instead, it’s over.
    Like, OVA.
    I wouldn’t even look back. I see that as something to me disrespectful and I would feel hurt….moreover, I would NEVER do it if roles were reversed.
    I love how Spirit showed you, with his daughter and this other woman: hey Azure, I am a healthy man and although I care about people, I have healthy boundaries….
    I like it!

  241.  #241Azure Blu on March 18, 2015 at 10:48 am

    I can be energetic and friendly to men who approach and talk to me… Lots of male energy coming my way last night… YUMMY!!
    but letting out vibes of more than that
    He will MOST certainly feel!!

  242.  #242Femininewoman on March 18, 2015 at 10:54 am

    The thing is how we define flirting. As simple as it is a warm smile is flirtatious. If he feels any vibes let him know he is right and that they are there to turn you on for him. That way you stay turned on all the time, regardless of whether he has the energy to turn you on or not. It is just about responding to your world that is always around you.

  243.  #243Azure Blu on March 18, 2015 at 10:56 am

    Kim #236
    YES… I do feel soooo cared about…
    I want to suck it ALLL in!!!
    I am loved…

    Love your comments…
    Yes… MoM not standing up for you
    would trigger me also…
    When I looked at that trigger I realized
    it was a mirror for *ME* to STOP
    and *ME* MAKING ME invisible…
    Quite a breakthrough!! Yay triggers.
    Although it was VERY PAINFUL TO SEE.

  244.  #244Femininewoman on March 18, 2015 at 10:59 am

    Azure that is how you feel because you are a woman. Who says that men feel that way? If you ask me a man sending vibes towards you would spike your man’s competitive wiring and make him want to win you all over again. Also I really don’t believe men want a woman who only he wants. He wins when all the competition out there want you but you choose him. To me the issue is about balance not shutting down your flirty girl. Question to ask yourself is why would you want to shut her down? Mr. will need her too and it is not the easiest thing to do to shut down and open parts of us on demand.

  245.  #245Femininewoman on March 18, 2015 at 11:04 am

    Maybe you are shutting it down because you are afraid he will do it behind your back. Maybe you fear you will lose him again.

  246.  #246Kim on March 18, 2015 at 11:05 am

    239 this is true Azure. I got supremely triggered because I actually grew up invisible and I make myself invisibke to please people and ‘fit in’, often neglecting my own needs.
    I summized I needed a man who actually understood my sensibility, and is not steamrollered by louder personalities and throws me aside.
    I had such a man before, they do exist.
    Also, it is a kind of loyalty to one’s woman and her needs to be prioritised, not always first, obviously, but at least to be considered.
    This feels extremely important to me.
    I do not want to be invisible anymore, and while I will never be ‘pushy’ or fighting for my needs like many others,l too recognise it is something I need to give to ME…and part of that is also being with a man who understands and respects me and is firm in his own confidence and to be there for his woman.
    We set the standards for how we want to be treated.
    For sure.

  247.  #247Azure Blu on March 18, 2015 at 11:09 am

    I do see what you are saying…
    It did turn me on a little to see him dancing with the other woman and he turned away when she tried to grab him!!

    Balance is what I want to be aware of…
    the mens Vibes coming toward me…
    Me receiving…..

  248.  #248Kim on March 18, 2015 at 11:12 am

    240 you have a point FW.
    MoM used to say he never gets jealous.
    He is not competitive.
    Bla bla bla.
    Men do like a challenge and they do like to have a woman that is desired by other men.
    As long as she knows where her loyalties are.
    As soon as I stopped CDing, my guy started slacking off, plans didn’t come to fruition, he felt safe in the knowledge I would sit at home. He stalled, plans stalled, move in stalled, now he is busy and totally wrapped up in sorting out his parents stuff with his sister…it will take weeks. He is sorting through junk for weeks…because he felt safe I would sit around and wait for him forever…doing nothing,
    Uhmmm…I won’t.
    If he had asked me about the items, I am from the museums business, I could have told him already that they are worth nothing and he is wasting his precious time trying to sell them. Be that as it may, maybe it is just another procrastination attempt.
    I am not procrastinating getting on with MY life now, and it feels good!

  249.  #249Azure Blu on March 18, 2015 at 11:15 am

    Actually as much love as he has been showing me just in the last week… He had been pursuing me for 3 months… after I started cding again..
    I feel very confident he won’t do that…
    go out on me..
    also cause I am loving MY life right now…
    and the added bonus is HE is in it…
    I love this discussion cause I want to be aware,
    practice, and see how this all feels…

  250.  #250Kim on March 18, 2015 at 11:17 am

    243 Azure…as crazy as MrP was, that was one thing I loved about him. He is very attractive and it would happen often that a woman would hit on him when we were on a date, believe it or not….he acted pretty turned off by it…and would give them the cold shoulder, made me feel really good, like safe. He dances now and women would ask him to dance…some all the time…but when we were together, he would look at me first to see if I wanted to, and if I waved, he would just leave them standing, and apologize. LOL.
    At the same time I would get a kick out of being with a guy who got approached by women and he was with ME, so yeah, I get it!
    It’s nice to feel like the Queen 🙂

  251.  #251Azure Blu on March 18, 2015 at 11:23 am

    Kim 242.
    Me too… totally invisible to my WHOLE family…
    like you, to survive, I had to get along with all of them
    AND BEG for attention and a little LOVE, Please…
    I learned to totally ignore me and what I needed and wanted…

    So this past break up with Spirit I figured out
    What I CAN do To STOP TREATING *ME* like I”m invisible… much easier to do than
    Trying to convince someone else!!!

  252.  #252Azure Blu on March 18, 2015 at 11:23 am

    Kim ,and like you, I won’t let anyone treat me like that!!!

  253.  #253Azure Blu on March 18, 2015 at 11:26 am

    Kim #246
    Yes, it’s good to feel like the Queen!! :-))

  254.  #254Kim on March 18, 2015 at 11:28 am

    247 Amen, amen, amen!
    In fact I have been way too good lately at giving me what I need….lol…I am pretty much self sufficient in the loving myself and having fun department…maybe too much so?

  255.  #255Azure Blu on March 18, 2015 at 11:32 am

    Kim #244
    I feel sad that you and MoM are struggling with the moving in thing…
    I too, am a little concerned to see how Spirit will act, now that I am all his…
    It is brand new… so far so good…
    But I am MUCH better at using the Rori tools
    which is keeping me warmer and more vulnerable..
    and NOT so SCARED//
    and I am working hard… observing ME… to NOT nit pick and to stay respectful of HIM…

    It will be interesting to see how *I* can sustain an ongoing relationship…
    Something I am excited to practice!

  256.  #256Azure Blu on March 18, 2015 at 11:38 am

    Kim #250…
    Yeah… too much alone time won’t work for me either…
    I have been alone tooo long to stay with a man who doesn’t want to live with me sooner than later…

    of course… MoM does want to live with you…

  257.  #257lovetodance on March 18, 2015 at 11:42 am

    oh sirens….
    reading the posts…feeling the wisdom flowing from the experiences…and i feeling ….gosh….weird

    my cding involves me and me and me and one lone standing man….

    he is the one who stepped up and i have been soooo ambivalent…

    and now it seems he is too…of course…
    so if i go back to this as practice..and not take it so personally…well i can cool out

    yet…i have a hard time feeling authentic at the same time treating this man as practice….

    so in the meantime…he asked me out for this next saturday ….we texted on monday and then today, wednesday…i heard nothing…unlike him…there is usually some text contact….
    so i texted howdy late yesterday…nothing
    then about an hour ago i texted…..are we still happenng….saturday?

    he responds with how are you?

    i respond with just feeling into this energetically…where you at?

    he….oh sweet…..u got a way of talking…

    thats it….no other response to my question….
    i am just leaning back…way back…my feeling is there is other woman/women….feeling a disconnect…

    i just would like the respect of clarity…on or off for saturday…so i can make other plans if it isn’t happening…i feel alittle sad about that….

    its the solstice for goodness sakes!

    gosh i am not feeling very alluring or attractive at the moment…just turned another year and wondering if my sex appeal has flown away for ever….

    just feeling alittle blue and discouraged

    and when i look in the mirror i see my age and also my beauty….

    gosh would be so fun to have some juicy attention coming towards me!

  258.  #258Kim on March 18, 2015 at 11:46 am

    Well, Azure, at first it did bring us closer actually…and then things kinda stalled. I am not saying it is his fault or mine, it just is. I have a feeling his hesitancy got fuelled by the stagnating nature of our relationship. We had slipped into the weekend routine, with a weekday date…and that was it.
    I am not saying that it isn’t nice and cozy and cute.
    I am saying that there is no motivation for change.
    It’s not just the move. The whole ‘looking for a house’ thing never happened either….although he asked for my friend’s details months ago….the realtor…there is never time.
    There is never time to
    -talk about the future
    -look at houses
    -make and stick to plans
    -help me with my condo stuff/lawyers/the leak/insurances/ talk about finances
    Somehow, there is time for a whole lot of other nonsense, like taking weeks to put nonsense on ebay that won’t even make money, or sleep a whole weekend and bake at midnight because his sister had the urge. Lol. They got nothing done, he ended up doing it all alone…but there is no time for any of the important issues.
    I dunno.
    I am thinking this is just procrastination, fear and hesitancy under disguise.
    And I am done with it.
    He can do what he wants now, I will do what I want, and if that means I have to get on a plans next month, so be it.
    It’s all fine by me, I am back to cDing because my patience has run out.
    I have been vulnerable too, told him how I felt, what scared me etc. Worked like a dream in the moment….a lot of understanding, feelings, getting closer….and a few days later back to square 1. Nothing changes.

  259.  #259Kim on March 18, 2015 at 11:49 am

    Wow this sounded frustrated. I am not actually feeling frustrated…I am feeling bored. I suspect that is my deal.
    I don’t think he is feeling bored.
    Maybe my personality…but definitely time to remind myself to keep my options open.
    I tried the ‘no CDing other men’, didn’t work.

  260.  #260Indigo on March 18, 2015 at 11:52 am

    Kim 242,

    I love this post of yours.

    I realised some time ago that I am a soft spoken person, putting myself out front and centre and pushing to be acknowledged or have my needs met is just not who I am, and never will be. I was ignored and passed over a lot as a child in my family, my parents and step parents usually made it very clear that they had better things to do than attend to things that were important to me, so I learned to largely fend for myself.

    Anyway, I don’t want to do that any more, not in my adult relationships. I don’t want to do that in my love relationship. I don’t want to get sidelined or have to fight to get noticed, or have to worry that I’ll get trampled on if I’m not policing my boundaries at every moment. I just want someone who simply respects me, and values me, and loves me, and considers me, in just a normal way that I can respect in turn. That is what I want. I know it now more strongly than ever.

  261.  #261Kim on March 18, 2015 at 12:07 pm

    256, yes Indigo! Totally resonates. I think this is one reason why I do home in on strong alpha men who can seem to others even harsh.
    Because I have noticed that those who get bossed around by their exes (I had one whose ex wife still had him on strings too), or family or even colleagues and friends, and don’t have healthy boundaries and a good amount of self confidence and respect for their woman….don’t work for me generally speaking….I guess I used to think softer men were the ‘safer’ option. And have lately come to realise that onky because I feel like I can control them, doesn’t mean they feel safe at all, for me.
    For example, a man who is so soft that he can’t respectfully usher a female colleague off his lap, out of respect for me – well, how could I respect that?
    I found: I can’t.

  262.  #262Dominique on March 18, 2015 at 12:22 pm

    Oh wow such wonderful conversations today. I don’t really know where to being plus I’ve lost my place reading on my phone and now at home on the laptop. The first thing which really stood out for me was the discussion around how to know if a man is relationship ready or something that, and I’m sorry not to remember who posed this question – April Rose? Indigo jumped in.

    And really you can’t know. Some of the seeming commitment phobic men or ambivalent ones can turn out to be the most wonderful partners and vice versa.

    Some if not a lot has to do with our own healing and if he’s willing and able to come along for the ride.

    When I think back on K, yes he was committed and loyal, yet there was something not missing, something I didn’t really notice until more recently now that it’s not missing. It was something beyond commitment which had in part to do with trust and in part a giving over to each other, a connecting in heart on such a profound level, an ease and a peace between us. And this grew over time, as we both healed and grew – alone and together. It really is a beautiful thing and something I wish for all of you.

    This article talks some about this, may help shed more light.



  263.  #263Silver-Tongued Siren on March 18, 2015 at 12:22 pm

    Ah! Thanks everyone for responding to my posts (Indigo, Labbit!), I will have to come back and respond. I just want to share this before I run out the door to work!

    I am so proud of myself!!!!!

    I think I have handled this well so far.
    I am under so much pressure – already having been in a rough patch, and then already being mid discussion of hypothetically finally living together, with Avocado, when the situation became that I suddenly have to move – (two weeks left!), with no money saved at all -barely making ends meet as it is! (have been going through extremely rough times with MILW being on a bi-polar trip, (locking me out of the house, bringing a girl to live in our houst, etc-), while taking care of my kids, home & rlsp, myself, and also caring 24/7 for a family member I was caring for who has now passed away, while still working as much as I possibly can).

    Now that moving came up suddenly, there was some talk about possibly living together, for real, probably way faster than he expected, and that I might need his help, and he said he doesn’t know. Then he said I could stay with him if I need to.

    Then this weekend he took our child to be vaccinated knowingly against my wishes, and kept it secret from me. This man can be passive aggressive, aloof, ignoring, (like you wonder if you exist!) lol.. when he wants to be!

    I know he can be open and vulnerable and honest because after months of work I experienced this from him, years ago, but he apparently got hurt somewhere with someone and shut it down again. So here we go with the secrets again.

    Last year around this time he did the same thing (only with a woman he started seeing around the same time as me, and broke it off with me months later -after a lot of odd behavior, and being asked about it three or four times).

    THIS time I’m going to nip it in the bud. I wanted to tell him “if you do ___ again, my boundary will be that I will do ___”. I forgot that, but it’s okay. I told him what I want, he agreed, and if it happens again I’ll go there.

    So this is what happened:
    After he left our child with me the other day, I noticed the marks on the little ones arms right after he left (because our child told me). I immediately called him but no answer. He was driving. (I’m sure he suspected why I was calling, otherwise he would’ve answered wondering if he’d forgotten something.)

    I texted to say “please call me back”.
    A few hours later, He responded “What’s up?”
    I said “I’m at the grocery store, I’ll call you in a bit” – when I was ready he was too tired, and asked if we could talk tomorrow?

    I felt this was a good idea because I was too tired to talk. – I said “I feel exhausted too – kisses.” That was Friday. Additionally he was expecting photos of the potential living space.

    He did not call the next day. (If I had mentioned it, he would’ve said I “could have called, too.”) I didn’t mention it. Instead I didn’t do ANYthing. I didn’t have time/feel like it anyway, since one of my children (the one who was vaccinated), myself, and four family members who were visiting from out of town, immediately got sick from the vaccines.

    He finally texted three days later (Tuesday!).
    Yes he was working, and long hours yesterday, but still. It felt like an eternity. I felt him thinking about me. (when he thinks about me I feel myself start to want to text/call him. I don’t.)

    I’m sure he expected I’d be insistent to talk, and was probably curious what I wanted, and I wonder if he even suspected he’d been found out. I did the opposite of what he expected, NOT calling. I didn’t press. I think that’s one of the things that makes him feel safe with me. I used to be different, but now, he starts ignoring or acting wishy washy and I’ll pretend he doesn’t exist for days, until he comes around. (I think that’s him going into his man-cave.) I used to cater to whatever he wants, whenever he wants, at the last minute with a lot of maybe’s.

    I’ve been doing my best making it very clear this year that I can take him or leave him! Not waiting around if he doesn’t give me a definite answer, (gotta do better at that), or if he’s late, (which he has been almost NEVER now). I’m also trying to think of him as the nerd, like Rori said. lol.

    So, since he didn’t immediately respond, and be the man and call to see what I needed (or wanted!), I let him sit and wonder and worry. LOL. and decided I could care less whether we live together. I only want to do that if I’m getting what I want out of it.

    Today he texted asking if I had gotten to see the living space yet.
    I said no, and asked him if it was a good time to talk. He said he’d call when done working. A couple hours passed (til 9pm).
    I texted “a n t i c i p a t i o n . .”
    He said “I’m still moving 🙁 ” “Are you busy in the morning?”
    I said I have another couple hours in me, I have work in the morning.. I’ll make time either way. (as I didn’t want to push him to talk if he was honestly too tired, that’s never good).
    he says “I have at least another hour of work.”
    I say “I feel ok w/you calling however late, If I’m asleep phone will be on silent.”

    I felt good about telling him “I feel ok w/you calling..” it felt like letting him feel it’s a privilege. It feels like being the prize, and I like it. 😉

    He texted me when he was finished, basically saying he was too exhausted. I made a flirty joke back. Then I said “I feel more relaxed at night..but we can talk tomorrow if you’re not feeling the energy”

    He responded – “i’m not feeling any energy. I’m drained. What time are you free tomorrow?”

    Before three minutes had passed, he called me!!!
    I must be doing something right because this is not his typical behavior. His communication felt more connective, to me. Also, he doesn’t normally seem to like to use the phone other than to make arrangements about meeting up. I am talking about that I get like maybe one long phone call a year. lol.

    He recently spent over an hour on the phone with me a couple weeks ago as well, just talking. (And has a few times in the last few months). He spent 45 minutes on the phone with me tonight. (he’s getting courageous!) 😉

    So, I asked him whether he was calling to arrange a time, or to talk. He laughed, sounding uncertain, as though he was tired, but could entertain some short conversation.

    I explained why I didn’t see the house yet.
    He asked if our child felt better (having had congestion before they left the other day). I told him no, we had all been sick, and our child especially felt the worst, threw up, in the middle of the night, screamed for hours in pain, started twitching…

    I told him all this before he was aware I knew what he did. and that the entire family got sick. He seemed really taken aback and shocked….. actually he sounded a little scared. I don’t know if he realized it was from the vaccines or not. I hope it opened his eyes a little.

    I then said.. “I feel a little weird about this…………………. but……………. well… what did you guys do saturday morning before you came here?..” (vaccinations).

    he played dumb, said “i don’t know”, like he couldn’t remember or something. HA.

    (IF A WOMAN IS ASKING YOU A QUESTION, SHE PROBABLY ALREADY KNOWS THE TRUTH!) (In fact, I’d been picking up on something telling me he might try this, I’ve been checking our child’s arms for weeks. He purposely did this on a day he thought they’d be gone for a week, AND did not go to our doctors office, probably so that I wouldn’t know about it.)

    So since we’re playing the dumb fox game, and he clearly wasn’t going to tell me unless he was found out, so I asked him straight up- did you take our child to get vaccines?…..

    He said “………why would you ask that?”

    I said “why wouldn’t you answer that?” (giggle).

    he repeated his question, so I told him that our child came home with marks on his arms, that got worse, and the entire house got sick. Soo…..
    did you give him vaccines?

    The silence was so LONG and SILENT, I literally thought he had fallen asleep or the call dropped. I asked if he was still there.
    He said “Yes”. and then another pin-dropping silence.
    I struggled harder the longer it went, to keep from filling it in or asking anything. (He KNOWS how strongly I feel about this).

    Finally he gathered the courage to admit, “Yes, I took him to get vaccines.”…. (boy he sounded guilty).
    I asked where, and what. He told me to a free clinic, and he doesn’t KNOW. (OMG). (REALLY?!!!)

    I am actually extremely upset about this, FTR. MILW and I have worked very HARD and set aside many things, to provide this child with good health. He was nurtured well during pregnancy, born at home, with no drugs, was breastfed for years (this child also ate constantly for the first 2.5), does not take antibiotics or synthetic drugs, and has nothing toxic in his body other than what he already unfortunately ingests through food/air/shampoo/etc. This is a big deal.

    Avocado & I have had heated disagreement on this several months ago, bc of him suddenly appearing and deciding this child (who does not get vaccines) should suddenly receive them, ALL, NOW, because he said so!

    He refused to even look into my side of it (because he knows everything), and refused to compromise. He forced one doctors appt (-a prereeno vaccines given), and then I heard nothing of it for months. Despite going to a couple appointments together afterwards for other reasons.

    I am PROUD of myself for remaining very calm and relaxed the WHOLE time, and very little anxiety or nervousness, either. I feel I did an amazing job.

    I said “You know I feel very concerned about this. I’d feel better if you could show me what you gave him, so I can research it and know what to look out for”, …”so you can do that, yes?”
    he said Yes.

    I said “I like to feel safe with you, and I do not feel safe with you, unless you’re being honest with me. There is no way we’re ever going to agree on every single thing, but I’d feel better if we can talk, or talk over time, creating a solution we can use for in the future when we do not agree on something. If it’s not that important, one of us can forgo it, otherwise we can compromise, or offer different solutions. what do you think?”

    He launched into how we tried to discuss the vaccine issue, how he TRIED to compromise (he refused to at all), etc. – I let him finish, “agreed” with him and explained what I saw happen. He agreed that we need to sit down and talk about some things (and put a timeline on it! “next week”)

    Then I empathized, “I understand you are just trying to do the healthiest thing for him, we both want that, and we both feel strongly about this. do you think you would feel better if you *knew* that we had an effective way to treat some of these potential illnesses should they happen? – I’ve been thinking about it and thought maybe you’d feel better if we could learn about them and understand them more and how to treat them. These illnesses are really not that big of a deal if treated properly, but they become a big deal when treated with pharmaceutical drugs when they do not treat it properly and because they do not have effective medicine to treat it.”

    He said “It’s possible..” I sensed that he felt I had thoughtfully come up with this solution, and that it could work, and he is open to it.

    He then initiated talking about an aspect of our child’s health being concerning to him and some disagreements over medication (me using it RARELY, him using it FREQUENTLY). This subject lasted quite a while, and went VERY WELL.

    I noticed him mirroring me by being empathetic, telling me he “understands” I don’t want him to have that drug, and why, and that he doesn’t either. At ALL. (which was relieving to hear!!!!) (it seems like he just doesn’t understand what a good alternative is). We came up with a next step to resolving the issue, (allergy testing) and also agreed that we might be able to find alternatives!

    I ended this part of the conversation by returning to my original point, “So, I really like feeling safe with you, and I feel safest when someone is honest with me and tells me things, even if it upsets me – I feel safer when you tell me things than keep things from me.”

    There was a long pause, and he said “I understand.”
    I gently said “thank you.”

    I sensed he knows very well that he was wrong, and was caught straight up in a lie, and I sense that he is agreeing to be communicative. (Although I wonder if I should ask him to speak very specifically that he is agreeing to be truthful. I really don’t have to, though, because if it happens again, I trust myself to handle it, and lay out the consequences.)

    IF this came up again in the future I would let him know that if it EVER happens again, that I will (stop being flexible and we will go back to the original court agreement, stop working on our relationship, etc whatever fill in the blank).

    I meant to tell him I felt angry and how hard I have worked to keep our child healthy, and that I want to make decisions *together*, no matter how long it takes to come up with an agreement, but oh well, Still accomplished. VERY WELL. Normally (in the past 3 years) he is just silent, avoidant, defensive. Instead, I actually feel communication going on here and him feeling safe as well!

    I told him as for the living space, I hope to see it soon. In the meantime I’d collected a few others if he’d like me to send them to him, I could. He said “Yes, send them to me.”

    A few minutes later I told him, “If you’d still like to get a place together, that would feel good.. and things are getting better, I’ve gotten this raise, as well as am getting some other funds I have been waiting for, though its a smaller amount than was agreed upon, it will help, I will just have to allocate it carefully.” (told him the amounts$$). (he had a couple questions about how much, where from, etc).

    I followed this with, “If you’d like to get a place together, though, I really want things to be……. well.. together. if we’re together, … I want things to be “we, us, together”,… I don’t like things that feel separating. If we do this I don’t want anymore of this ‘your day’, ‘my day’, stuff.” (court agreement).

    I paused, long enough for a response, in case he had one. He didn’t say anything, To signal that I was giving him time to think about it, (which I felt was better to leave him wondering than say directly), I went about what I was doing, talked to our child a couple of times, mentioned I was folding laundry (which he repeated, almost like mirroring, lol, as if i were doing something interesting…). I am sure we’ll talk about it more next week. Otherwise, if he wants to live together, he knows the conditions.

    We then said we were going to bed, and he said goodnight to our little one.

    No mention of him coming down to get us or just the little one for Thursday-Sunday (which is actually my time). (maybe he’s exhausted, or we’re sick, or maybe he just needs time to think.) …. perhaps I’ll offer to drive up for a day on the weekend if he pays gas, if I’m not busy. His sister is moving away and we want to see her before she does. Or maybe I won’t. I have plenty to do otherwise.

    I am very happy with the outcome of this.
    Closer to solutions/alternatives for disagreements, vaccinations, and health issues, and WAY better communication. Had a difficult conversation and it was EASY. I did not feel too anxious or upset the whole time. I felt relaxed and calm – because I feel much more self-assured. I did not raise my voice once and neither did he. He gave an apology that we were all sick, an agreement to be communicative/honest (or at least knows that I am REQUIRING it), an openness to living together, a calm and empathetic attitude.
    AND I got a phone call. for an hour. when he’s “drained”. Who am I even talking to today? This feels good!

  264.  #264Dominique on March 18, 2015 at 1:08 pm

    Kim – I totally get this – feeling invisible, something I’ve struggled with forever. Yet never in my relationship with K which I feel so thankful for. And I feel even more special and important to him as time goes on which is as it ought to be. Interesting though to me is that you find this kind of energy and dynamic in an alpha man. K is a masculine energy man, yet he’s not at all alpha. More an independent spirit. Like me. With plenty of deep introspection. Maybe this instead of two or more men which could work out well for you, someone who is strong and at times ambitious yet relaxed, artistic, and sensitive? Maybe he hasn’t shown up yet?


  265.  #265Mistea1 on March 18, 2015 at 1:11 pm

    Doninique 258,
    I liked the discussion on relationship ready and who’s to know. I will have to keep that in mind. However, given my discussion at 217 I’m sure this one is at the extreme end of the narcissim scale. He’s older and harder to change.

    I’ve instituted strict no contact not even looking at him right now mostly because of the extreme triggering it causes us both. Later it can be a cordial hello but not right now.

    He did find out the new church I go to and showed up very noticibly at one of the recitals. I left quietly but I wondered if I have to be cautious about him doing more of this? Do you have any experience with this type of behavior? Thanks

  266.  #266Mistea1 on March 18, 2015 at 1:36 pm

    Dominique 258,

    I did take a test for narcissism my self and tested in the middle of the pack at essentially normal I guess. I have worked on those issues we had in common.

    I’m so tired of this. After all those years as a brunette I finally got to go blonde and all I want to do is have fun! 🙂

  267.  #267Dominique on March 18, 2015 at 1:41 pm

    Mistea – Narcissism is an almost impossible one to deal with, for along with narcissism comes lack of awareness around it. When it’s a family member, you can humor them which tends to work well, but the chance of a real/deep relationship are not so good.

    In a romantic relationship, well…not much chance of anything good feeling, and these kinds of people are less likely to change given the nature of the behavior.

    The leaning back you’re doing has to be for you and no one else, so that you feel safe, good, taken care of – BY YOU, and so you can explore more fully what you feel.

    I do feel concerned about the what seems like stalking behavior.


  268.  #268Azure Blu on March 18, 2015 at 1:42 pm

    STS #259
    Wow!!! soooo amazing how you handled all that potential triggering interactions!!!

    I love the feeling messages you used!!
    Very POWERFUL Stuff.
    Yay YOU!!!
    Leaning Back, taking care of you… authentic
    and vulnerable…

  269.  #269April Rose on March 18, 2015 at 1:51 pm

    Azure Blu,

    Am I right in saying that you have given up CDing?
    I’m not sure if I read things correctly sometimes.

    There is a difference, I think, between dating other men, as in *dating*, and circular dating.
    (in fact I’m not even sure why on this blog we refer to men we date as CDs).

    Circular dating is about keeping our hearts open to ourselves and humanity, and about practicing Rori’s tools with men, women and children.

    Dating is, well… dating.

    I am ever grateful to Dominique for pointing out that I don’t need to DATE more than one man at a time.

    However, I will not give up circular dating for as long as I live.

    Part of it for me is to maintain an inner openness, so that I know inside me that if this man I am dating doesn’t measure up, I am moving onto the next.
    I believe that maintaining that thought keeps my vibe up. And keeps him working to pursue me.

    It’s like keeping the thought “you are a wonderful man but you have not won me yet”. Drives them crazy!

  270.  #270Kim on March 18, 2015 at 1:53 pm

    260 interesting Doninique…yes, maybe I did mean masculine not necessarily alpha…come to think of it a lot of the die hard alphas can be a little insensitive and wrapped up in themselves.
    Maybe I haven’t met him yet, maybe he doesn’t exist….maybe I am looking for the impossible. I do believe I had such a man in my early 20’s although you wouldn’t put us together now and we were very young…I certainly never felt invisible….or like my needs came last….or as though there even was *that* struggle. Interesting…
    Or maybe I will just end up alone. I guess more and more so, I like the life without too much effort and drama and for some reason that often means skiing on the superficial surface because as we all know intimacy can be also painful and difficult as well as wonderful.
    I guess like with life, jobs etc – I get bored easily.
    I have been mulling this because I have wondered about committment and marriage but deep down…hmmm…so many (good) men, so little time..lol.
    It would take someone/something very special, I had a glimpse of it with MoM but I feel doubtful that we are really on the same page…and, after 2 years, I have to say, I almost resent him for never sh*tting or getting off the pot.
    It gets boring after a while.

  271.  #271Azure Blu on March 18, 2015 at 2:10 pm

    lovetodance #253…
    ohhh… is happy birthday in order for you?

    Happiest of Birthdays’ beautiful, warm, sexy YOU!!

    as far as the online dating thing…
    there is an ebb and flow to how many men are contacting us or are responding to our contacts…

    I DO look through the available men who I think I might be interested in and make the first contact..
    I know there are many theories on this…
    and I don’t know if you ever contact the men first…
    but try it… it tends to keep the flow of incoming
    CD’s a better caliber
    and keeps me from getting stuck on one
    who isn’t responding…

    Yeah, i’d lean WAY back on this one LTD…
    He is being MUCH to vague…
    It has NOTHING to do with YOU…
    You are a Goddess, Siren…
    Beautiful and shinning brightly for all the universe to adore!!!

  272.  #272Azure Blu on March 18, 2015 at 2:15 pm

    April Rose #265
    Ahhh… thank you..
    I am no longer online dating…
    I am ONLY dating Spirit…
    but I do agree with you… NEVER stop CDing the world…
    After learning Rori’s tools and feeling so warm and happy about being ALIVE…
    I do say HI and smile warmly (cause that is what I am feeling) to almost all i meet everywhere!!
    Rori’s tools have given ME such confidence
    it is remarkable!!!

  273.  #273Azure Blu on March 18, 2015 at 2:44 pm

    here is some words of wisdom from Evan Katz that always gave me courage…

    the power of persistence.
    You fall down, you get up.
    You fail, you try again.
    There literally is no other way.
    Whether you like it or not, finding lasting love is extremely difficult.
    If it were easy, it wouldn’t be precious and valuable.
    If it were easy, you would already be in a great relationship right now.
    And since you’ve fallen in love maybe three times in your entire life, what are the odds are that you’re going to fall in love in the next 30 days on Match.com?
    That’s right. They’re really, really, low. Like, 1 in 1000 low.
    But you know what makes them MUCH lower?
    When you’re NOT on Match.com.
    When you’re NOT meeting guys in real life.
    When you’re NOT going on a first date with a new man each week.
    This is why I want you to immediately embrace this concept:
    You need to be a short-term pessimist AND a long-term optimist.

    Now why would I ask you to be a short-term pessimist? Isn’t that negative?
    No. It’s realistic.
    And once you come to terms with how realistic it is, it won’t be as upsetting when it proves to be true.

    If you’ve fallen in love 3 times in your life, you honestly can’t expect that the next random guy you meet will be “the one”.
    If you generally think that 90% of men you meet aren’t attractive, you can’t expect that you’ll have incredible chemistry with your next date.
    If you’ve dated for years and years and are still single, you can’t expect each new promising man to be the guy who sweeps you off your feet.
    Which is why it’s so important to set your expectations realistically.
    Realistically, you might have to date online for a year.
    Realistically, you might have to go out with 30 men.
    Realistically, you will meet guys who are weird, selfish or emotionally unavailable.
    If this is all predictable – and it is – it shouldn’t be too upsetting.
    You don’t start crying when it rains. It’s predictable.
    You don’t go to therapy when there’s rush hour traffic. It’s predictable.
    You don’t freak out when you don’t win the lottery. It’s predictable.
    Starting now, you’re going to be perfectly fine with the ups and downs of dating.
    Failure and frustration are built into the business model.
    Babe Ruth struck out over 1,000 times while becoming a baseball icon.
    Thomas Edison failed 10,000 times while inventing the light bulb.
    The road to success is paved with failure.
    And if you think of each new cute guy as your potential husband, of course it becomes debilitating when life proves you wrong every single time.
    You need a new way to approach dating.
    That’s what I’m offering: a new way.
    A way that works.
    And THIS is why you should also be a long-term optimist.
    Because there are millions of men out there who are just like you -frustrated and confused and fed up with dating.
    They’re asking the same questions you are about whether there’s any woman in the entire world who is cute, smart, fun, kind, nurturing and stable.
    Of course, there is. He just hasn’t met you yet!

  274.  #274Beloved on March 18, 2015 at 4:30 pm

    Wow, so much going on here.

    Last night, I felt the most interesting feeling.
    I was lying down, breathing, and gradually I felt how deeply I need TG right now. In my heart, I felt an aliveness, it felt as if it were stretching and growing. I could feel a deep, sweet feeling and I shed a few tears.
    I sank and sank into that feeling, and the thoughts of how much I really need him. Not in an insecure, clingy, “I-can’t-live-without-you” kind of way. In a way that felt like, opening, and allowing, allowing the need to be without hiding it, feeling ashamed of it, or dismissing it. I felt intimate with the feeling and fell a little bit more in love with myself.
    It felt so good to feel in touch with that feeling.

  275.  #275Mandy on March 18, 2015 at 5:16 pm

    3 whole years today, Sirens…

    In the beginning, it took me three months to sort through a few coffee dates to be reminded of J, who I’d contacted on a modeling website to ask if he’d do a photo shoot with me. I was annoyed with all the other Circular Dates, when I went to coffee with them, because they’d get right to talking about marriage and kids, and I thought, aren’t you jumping the gun a bit, can’t we date for one split second?? I seriously felt annoyed as hell. So when I contacted J again after that, this time because I realized I liked him, I assumed because he was a photographer I was contacting for work, he would be this A-hole, lol, but he just smiled through the emails he wrote to me…and we bonded closer and closer, because he was not talking marriage kids and white picket fences, and also, I didn’t know it, but the whole time I was in my last relationship, I thought J was really hot, lol. I flirted…and saw him…very slowly. I would only say hi once a week, would only see him once a month, anti made him pay for a night with me at a hotel because he didn’t want to go another month without seeing me. Then we moved in together because I needed desperately to get out of my toxic, chaotic home, so perhaps that was odd, but he really did save me.
    Then, on this day two years ago, he woke me up in bed by giving me a little kiss, and he said, “Want to be my girlfriend?” I know we are both very frightened of marriage, so for him to ask me that and me to say yes was a big step of courage for the both of us. The fact that he didn’t want a relationship at first, I know now, is about his psychological issue (which I have given him a Love Script on finally, asked for him to make an appointment at a therapist who deals with these issues, now just seeing if he chooses his problem or me.) I love a challenge, that’s for sure.
    So here we are, and here I am, having finally gotten the guts to ask him to see a therapist. He took it so well,i was very surprised, he looked at me with these big brown eyes and squeezed me, and said he would do it. He said also he might need my help finding a therapist. I found one and said maybe he could see her. We said we’d talk about it later though because we had company over at the time and i casually mentioned the therapist finding thing in the kitchen.
    He’s going to take me out on a date for our anniversary and i’m excited because he’s very good at giving me surprises and keep them good secrets until he reveals them 🙂 Lots of fun. I love it when we are having a blast and he gets a big grin on his face when he smiles!
    I am so ready for this date, lol 🙂 Feeling very romantic today…he snuggled me close before work, I can’t wait for him to come back.

    Dominique…I am feeling some serious LOVE for my journey, and it is unsolicited. I am thinking back on the three years…and I am feeling so much warmth emanate from my heart area and spreading over my body, I am getting goose bumps. I know now that however my situation turns out, I will never, ever regret trying with J. He is so very special, and he is so very good-hearted, sweet and caring, and has been so patient with me. Either way…he has become my best friend. If we need to be just friends, that is A-okay. If we stay as more than friends, even better. I’ve never felt that way about anyone I’ve been romantic with. I always thought “good riddance to old rubbish” and never ever had a problem cutting them off. This one’s definitely different.

    What a wonderful feeling that is. To know he really is my friend and genuinely loves and cares for me. It feels so good…like snuggling my cat on a cold day…just looking at his face and feeling my heart squeeze…I’m so glad he is so sweet and open to trying.

    I feel I’m giving him the room to overcome something no one else had the patience to give him room for. I also feel like I’m observing something possibly very beautiful…maybe like a butterfly coming out of a cocoon. Anyone observed someone heal and felt it was beautiful?

    The way he talked to me the other day about going to the therapist…it was like he was admitting something huge, like a secret he’d hidden forever, and his eyes were full of emotion. I know one woman who’s been married for ten years, hasn’t had sex for nine, and she tries to get her husband to go to the therapist for the exact same reason, his past abuse, and he won’t even consider it. YAY for J…for being brave and willing to help himself. That is very different from the men I know…like my dad…there’s just no way he’d go to counseling, it’s just not a manly thing to do, lol. Isn’t that silly?

    We often have to plant that seed in the man’s head and let it grow so he can feel his way into it, rather than just trying to convince him what a good idea it is.
    My mom does that with my dad all the time and I’ve tried it and it works a lot of the time, lol.

    I feel sneaky saying that but…:)

  276.  #276Lotus on March 18, 2015 at 5:47 pm

    I am feeling irked by some things with Mr AM..

    He asked me to move a road cone out of the road for him a few days ago, and today I think ‘should I be bothered by that? It would have been nice if he got out of the car and moved it himself, even though it’s on the passenger side?’ When I got back in the car, I just said how surprisingly heavy it was. Although when he asked me to move it, I did want to be his assistant and move it for him. Yet I feel a little resentful 3 days later. I feel a bit befuddled by my own delayed reaction to things, wanting a gentleman or wanting a guy who’s 90% gentleman who will respond to my needs.

    He also regularly tells me how much things cost in his life, from his internet bill to his grocery products to his picnic blanket, and even things in relation to upcoming dates like flight costs, an all-you-can-eat meal etc, the kind of things you talk about with a friend, and I feel turned off everytime he mentions money and costs. I want to say that I don’t feel very attracted to a guy when there’s talk about money, I feel as though he is counting things. I’m not sure what I could say here, some help from the sirens would be welcome. It just seems like it’s part of him, and somewhat the culture of men in this area too…

    When I told him about a jazz night I want to go to, where they will be tapas, he asked me to treat him to tapas as it’s the night before payday, and that he would return the favour when he gets paid. So I had to tell him ‘I feel awkward to be asked, it feels really unromantic. I feel sensitive around the subject of money as my ex was obsessed with money’ he replied ‘I’m not obsessed with money, and it makes the world go round… I don’t want you to think I’m a cheapskate.. (and proceeded to explain about his lack of money before payday).. oh .. I’m so embarrassed and I’m sorry, I don’t want to make you feel uncomfortable and I want to be sensitive to your needs and wants.’ So I was glad that we got that sorted and I told him I’ll happily eat beforehand and just want to enjoy the jazz and art, and that I’ll get him a drink and winked.

    I told my friend that Mr Am had asked me treat him to ice-cream even, when he took me on a coastal day trip and brought a surprise picnic with wine. And she told me that he’s been testing me, and I’ve been failing! That he wants me to treat him, and I’m tight! She says I need to do something for him if I feel it, like surprise him with a home-cooked meal. To be honest, I have been in total lean-back mode, just responding with affection and attention, and good energy, melting, but I’ve not done any giving back in response even though I have been wanting to. I feel a little pulled-back. And then I’ve been a little stressed with planning the logistics of the meal, shopping and somehow getting the key off him, since I would have to do it at his, as I don’t have my own place, and I don’t want to pay in a restaurant.

    Whenever I am with Mr Am, I feel really good, we really enjoy each other’s company, he gives me copious amounts of affection, is very generous in his home with food and drink. He has even offered to put me on his car insurance to help me pass my test and is buying plane tickets to take me on holiday. I have no doubts that he is investing in me, yet I wonder if I’m missing any little red flags.

    I am finding that when I’m away from him, my mind starts to find faults, and I’m struggling to relax, and then when I’m with him, it all flows pretty easily! My counsellor has picked up that I’m not trusting myself and she is right. After my marriage breakdown and my husband’s affair, and the winding down of my own business, I am struggling to trust myself.

    Mr Am tells me he feels really comfortable with me that he feels he can tell me anything and he really likes how I tell him what I’m feeling when something’s wrong, without me holding onto it and letting him wonder if something is up. He tells me how he is captivated by my energy, with how I see and describe things. I felt such an aha moment with a nod to Rori, that my sireness and new authenticity is shining through. And now I realise, I really need to tap into another part – and believe I can choose the best man, yet I have niggling doubts about trusting myself.

    Have I made him so comfortable in his own expression that he can tell me so many things, yet I am finding it scary to express more authenticity. Argh, intimacy is getting scarier!! I haven’t felt so physically comfortable and trusting like this for a long long time, and we just seem to feed off each other – like a circle of openess and trust.. and then when I pull away and feel single again, I struggle with my thoughts, wondering about red flags. Does anyone else go through this?

  277.  #277Mistea1 on March 18, 2015 at 6:17 pm

    Dominique 263,

    Thank you for your words, I concur. That’s one of the reasons I left the other church. Right now the lean back is selfprotective.

    I have two things that I need to pay attention to. One is the chemical addictive reaction and neutralizing it. Two is making sure I am in a safe place at all times.

    After 3 days ago the chemical addiction seems to be lessoned by 75%. I used surrogate EFT, meditation,journaling, and my experience with addiction counseling. i wasn’t truly aware of the chemistry of infactuation releasing chemicals in the body. I knew it was there but how greatly it affects the body still surprised me.

    Two: safety, I did research on the internet. Someone here suggested Baggage Reclaim. It was an eyeopener for sure. It felt like they described what was happening to me word for word. I’m now aware of things, like him coming to the new church for a recital whereas he would normally go to the biggest concert hall in the city. There was something not quite right about him strolling down the center aisle while the ensemble was in the middle of playing. etc, etc. He should know better as he is one of those music professionals. I’ll make sure I’m never alone with him. My evening choir practice and his are on the same night so as long as I don’t hang around I am OK.

    Here, I thought going to a church for community would be the best. However, by last August I coud refer to this guy as St.*******’s dirty little secret! I saw all this but it was so unusual that it was hard to believe what I saw.

    The surogate EFT I did this afternoon was very comforting and strengthening for me.

  278.  #278Violette on March 18, 2015 at 7:03 pm

    Mandy I hear how much energy your relationship is taking. I hear you moving through it with as much grace as you can…I can’t help but want to push you a little to move on. It just seems so difficult. I also understand that breaking up is horrible and who wants to have regrets after the fact and all that. I hope I can say that without making you feel pushed or unheard. I just don’t get the point of these super difficult relationships! (This is about me not you).

    I broke up with A. Honestly I don’t know what on earth I was doing in that relationship. I thought I was working on “learning not to judge” and that it somehow felt nice to have someone. It didn’t. The whole thing was a lie. It was unhealthy and I finally have oxygen again. I have a bad taste in my mouth and want to take anohther week or so to sit with things before dating again.

    Then again I want to live an international lifestyle, to split my life between 2 countries. I don’t do that yet. I wonder if it would be wiser to focus on getting that in gear, then open up to love, because then it’s so much clearer who I am!

    I want to steer clear of dating sites for a moment, because they are so random. I want to meet men in a context of an activity we have in common. A and I had like NOTHING in common! I want a man I can share my interest with, at least in general.

    Thank God I have my energy back. I need it to change my life, big time.

  279.  #279Bopa on March 18, 2015 at 7:57 pm

    Feeling really good. Drinking a beer on a beautiful “saturday” evening. Catching up on siren stories. I spent my day pampering myself a little bit. Invested in some quality clothing that should last me some years of spring/summer.
    Today I wondered who I am as I looked in the mirror. On occasion I feel that strange revert back to an old part of my brain that expects a different reflection. Always hailing a period of introspection and growth. I feel a sensation akin to wanderlust…Only it surrounds a need to explore myself.

    The energy in my relationship has felt a bit static this past week. I wonder when it will slip back into dynamic, electric.
    All part of a natural rhythm I feel intensely aware of after all the years of practice around my romantic consciousness.

    I notice i’m egging myself on to say more but nothing is coming. I have an intention to embrace something i’ve been blocking, and I forsee it being a fun practice. 🙂 So vague…

  280.  #280Linda on March 18, 2015 at 8:04 pm

    I appreciate all of the comments earlier post.

    I really have felt a bit antsy and frustrated today over the whole thing. I have really had to push my boy energy down too. My mind has been replaying our interactions and times we have seen each other since my b’day.

    Victoria: I do believe that he is involved with some else and his asking for patiences is exactly what you said. There have been too many odd little things and the vibe.. well lets just say I certainly have experienced it before. THen there is the not really looking into my eyes thing too. He exhibited all the signs of I am weighing options here.

    To get the “be patient with me thing” after all his flirting and pursuing just really felt so off. That is why I had to say “Step in all the way or Step away. At this point given our history that waiting on him to decide and seeing how it goes thing was not something I wanted in my life. I certainly am not open to communicating here and there and him expecting me to be all juicy and sexy and loving. You got to deposit in the bank if you are going to earn any dividends and make any withdraws. I have tooo much self respect for that! I drew a line in the and, set a very clear boundary. I feel reallly great about that.

    He often said that I alway grouped him in with all “other men” that have been in life and that was not fair. Funny thing is… I never did and I rebutted it ever time he said it. I have to say that now he has pretty much earned a place in that catagorey.

    This man is not emotionally intelligent. I felt like he just did not get it so many times. The thing that drove me away from him is the thing I wanted to really invest in making better. I felt like every time I would tell him gut level honest things.. just like my last text to him.. he did not hear a word of it and it was always like that.

    The only thing he really wanted was open to getting reconnected was our physical relationship. He just does not get how I am wired. Without a great emotional connection the other stuff all breaks down or doesnt work at all for me.

    He told me last week that one of his sisters said that he was impossible to get along with for very long and that is why nobody want to be with him. He said he was so mad at her but I kinda felt an agreement in my spirit with that statement. He is SO hard to get along with.

    I thing I feel sad about is that after all this time and all the awful stuff I really did truly open my heart and forgive. Maybe it was a gift I needed to give myself and it wasnt about him or being in a relationship with him at all. I openned my heart up and set boundries. Soft on the outside strong on the inside thing.

    Thanks ladies for your input. I realized tonight that after this I truly have lost respect for him. After everything and me reopening to him I feel totally disrespected by him now.

  281.  #281lovetodance on March 18, 2015 at 8:56 pm


    thank you warm, smart and supportive siren…

    thank you for evan katz words….gosh oh gosh….do i have the cajones to go back online….? maybe….

    you know this lone guy was gun ho towards me….but i felt our differences financially, physically not to mention he struggles with depression….so my ambivalence was big….
    i also felt and saw his soulfullness and vulnerability….and i know it hurt him when i said i didn’t want to be anyone’s girlfriend at this point…which is true….
    i didn’t want him to become too invested in me…and now he isn’t

    more on the texting today…

    after a few vague comments from him i said’ i am a person who feels good and respected with clarity and honesty…sooo darling if we aren’t going to be together satureday please let me know so i can make other plans…

    his response…forgive me it passed my mind regarding saturday thank you so much for reminding me …my short term memory shorts out sometimes and i need reminding….

    anyhow that was enough for me….forgetting our date!
    no no way …uhhuh…nope ….very unexciting what a turn off…

    we riffed alittle more…and that was it…i know he has faded away….
    just why can’t people be honest? direct?

    i know its better…i know we’re not a match….buttttt there was vulnerability and honesty exchanged…y’know….

    i feel a big part of this is my ambivalence…do i want a real relationship? am i ready to trade in my independence for interdependence?
    i just so don’t want to miserable in a couple …i know how to do that on my own lol…

    but really i’m not miserable on my own…i am quite happy not that i don’t get lonely or sad or touch deprived…..but i’m also quite vibrant and in love with life…sooooo on and on….

    i am making other plans for saturday…if he does contact me…its tooo late…..

    gosh i feel like a downer sometimes on this blog…but i have to remember i/we are here to express what really is happening even if that isn’t so cheerful or insightfull…
    i know i keep changing……digging deeper….practicing….strengthening….clarifying…inte-grating…

  282.  #282lovetodance on March 18, 2015 at 9:11 pm


    i feel you are doing SUCH a good job wrestling with this dynamic with music cd

    i so relate to what you say about the chemistry of infatuation releasing addictive chemicals in the body….

    for me with my non relationship…it also served the need of reaching for someone unavailable so that i could pour all my passion into that possibility without having to face any intimacy issues….

    of course to this day i feel i would have flung myself deeply in love and involved with him given the chance….but who knows what/how i would really have acted/reacted if he was open to a relationship other than just leaving a trail of crumbs for me to follow for three f—ing years…ohhh what i did!

    So kudos siren for your bright shining intelligence and detective like way of healing yourself and this dynamic…it is healing to me to read of your progress and brilliance in this endeavor..

    and yes blondie….have alot of fun…alot of more and more fun!

  283.  #283lovetodance on March 18, 2015 at 9:22 pm

    268 azure

    wow oh wow oh woo…
    somehow i feel i can just feel and see you doing this…

    smiling so warmly at the world!

  284.  #284Indigo on March 18, 2015 at 11:44 pm

    Azure Blu,

    I feel so incredibly happy for your experience with Spirit, and I feel very inspired by your breakthrough with yourself. I am learning from you, especially about this ignoring myself and being invisible to myself. Your story is beautiful!

  285.  #285Indigo on March 18, 2015 at 11:57 pm

    Lotus 272,

    Maybe it’s just me, but it feels funny to me a guy mentioning the cost of all those things, and asking you to treat him so many times! That would feel extremely funny to me, I’ve never really had a guy do that before and if he were to start talking about money early on I think it would put me right off. I wouldn’t exactly say it’s a red flag, but it is something to pay attention to because your styles with money may not be compatible? Anyway, I’m glad he makes you feel wonderful when you’re with him.

  286.  #286Victoria on March 19, 2015 at 1:22 am

    Indigo, Lotus,
    I also have never been asked by a guy to treat him. This is so strange to me, but may be I am just too old, and this is the new way things are?
    I personally would always offer to treat, but if the guy accepts, this is usually such a turn-off, that subsequently our relationship decreases to only friendship. This is not too bad actually, some relationships are just not meant to be romantic. Also, I don’t think you can force him to WANT to pay for you, it is either there or it is not, so if it is not there and he would rather be a friend than a lover – you know what you need to know, you can make up your mind.

  287.  #287Victoria on March 19, 2015 at 1:54 am

    Linda 276,
    It is very good for me to read your response, I see so many of my own beliefs, preconceived notions and insecurities in what you write, and I am grateful for this oppotunities to address them, for my own sake. I hope you do not mind me doing it as a response to you, I mean only the best for you and I have zero judgement to what you chose to do. I just want to let you know, that I have done exactly what you did a few times, and it never worked well. I can see now, after several mistakes on my part, that when a man is torn between two women, the one who treats him better is the one who wins. Not necessarily the one who has s*x with him (eventhough I suspect that the quality of the s*xual relationship does play a large role in their decision making process, and I do not think we can ever blame a man for desiring us sex*ally). It works absolutely the same way for women, by the way, if you have more than one suitor (and this is what we all shall have :-)) then you evaluate them and choose the one who treats you better, appreicates you more, likes you more. Our liking a person feeds on this person liking us. And, I have noticed, that the moment a man hears accusation, even the slightest hint of it, his hearing shuts down, and he hears nothing of what we want to say about ourselves and our feelings.
    I learnt this the hard way, the really hard way. I know I need to be repeating the same mistake until I learn. I think I have improved dramatically in being soft spoken, but it is not yet second nature to me. I have learnt (and it is a skill that comes with practice practice practice) to say nothing if everything that comes to my mind is negative or an accusation, and to just walk out and show with my behavior/unavailablity that I am not happy. Men read this very well, pick it up immediately, you do not need words for this…
    I am finding the strenght in me, these days, to be gentler to people, even at work, and to apologize to people even when I did not think I did anything wrong, but for the sake of the relationship, for the sake of moving ahead and not fueling each others negative energy. I am thinking to myself, you know, me and this guy (a colleague) we will never be friends, and he is mean to me, but nevertheless it is up to me to choose what to tell him. And it is no longer about how I want to change his behavior (which I can’t) but about how I see me, and my own choices, and my own reactions. Some of my reactions make me happy and content, and give me peace of mind, while others make us go back to what happened, again and again, replaying the episode. To me this usually means that deep inside me I am not happy with myself, for what I did. I wish you peace of mind!

  288.  #288Indigo on March 19, 2015 at 2:46 am

    Victoria 282,

    I agree completely. I tend to have rather old-fashioned values when it comes to dating. I always offer to pay my share out of politeness, unless the man has specifically said upfront he is paying, which most men here seem to do, but if a man were to actually let me pay for more than a snack or a drink or a tub of popcorn, certainly for the first several dates, I suddenly do not have a romantic vibe towards him any more.

  289.  #289Mandy on March 19, 2015 at 2:49 am

    Dearest Siren Violette,

    I hear you 🙂 I feel your care for me. I am a very strong woman and I like to see results, so I very much get into challenges…I can take it 🙂

    I for one wouldn’t be who I am, happy and optimistic, if my parents had left me behind with my disabilities…and I really believe there is something worthy here and salvageable…we’re even being super tender right now 🙂

    If I do see he’s choosing his fear over me, then it’s time to go…and yes it will be ROUGH…but I have the Sirens, my mom, my girlfriends, and a whole new world of CDs to check out…However, I can HAPPILY say I will never ever regret being with J…

    We’re dreaming of our summer vacation in Lake Powell together tonight 🙂

  290.  #290Indigo on March 19, 2015 at 3:00 am


    I am the last person who can or should ever judge someone else for staying with someone too long because they love them. And I know first-hand how frustrating it is for people looking on, who care, who want to see you “have it all” and see you struggling through issues and hoping things get better. I’ve been there, I’m there now, and I just want you to know I UNDERSTAND. There is something very beautiful between me and D which makes it very, very difficult to think of leaving him, even though I don’t have the commitment I want. BUT if the time came that I knew in my heart of hearts that that was the best thing for me, I would do it, and I would find a way to get through it – I WOULD do it.

    I don’t expect other people to understand because they couldn’t possibly, unless they were me. I know some people think it’s about my beliefs or my self-esteem or what what what, but I know it’s more than that. And like you, I will NEVER regret loving him.

    I just wanted to say – I get it. There isn’t an easy, pat answer to give someone else, you just have to do what you think is best for you.

  291.  #291Lotus on March 19, 2015 at 4:26 am

    Victoria, Lotus

    Well I’m in the UK and personally I’ve yet to meet a guy who refuses a drink from a woman when he has romantic interest in them. They seem to go a bit gooey eyed and surprised, they love it! And it’s pretty much the norm that women will pay for a small amount of things when dating. One of my friends believes in equality and splits most things with her husband ever since they were dating and they’re still very much in love. The only times when I know of guys who absolutely pay for everything are the ones from traditional cultures and the older men in their 40’s+. And frankly, the guys who displayed the most gentlemen qualities didn’t move up the ranks enough with me. I’ve yet to meet a chivalrous guy who I also fancy and think enough of to keep dating.

    Challenging CD showed all the signs of pursuing a relationship yet thought I was odd in not offering to pay once, and even thought it was a little ‘gold-digger’ like… he was a bit rude anyway so was duly knocked off.

    Mr Am has told me he’s wanting a partner in crime, a friend who he fancies the pants off, to share adventures with… so this is telling me quite a lot. I just hope it’s not going to turn into a ‘counting’ or ‘tit-for-tat’ relationship like the one with the H. And at the moment I just can’t see Mr Am downgrading this to a friendship when his amorous energy is washing over me, and it would be on a daily basis if I didn’t pace it out more.

    What did you think of road cone situation??

  292.  #292Indigo on March 19, 2015 at 4:34 am

    Lotus 287,

    Yes, I understand perfectly, and I think cultural or societal differences can account for quite a lot.

    About the road cone situation, I wouldn’t have been thrilled about it, but I also think it’s the kind of thing I would have quickly forgotten – not a very big deal for me. If it was too heavy for me I probably would have spoken up and asked him to please do it.

  293.  #293victoria on March 19, 2015 at 4:41 am

    What is the road con situation?

  294.  #294Azure Blu on March 19, 2015 at 4:45 am

    Indigo #280…
    Ahhh… thank you for your encouraging words Sweet, beautiful Siren!!!

    I feel humbled that you are sharing in my *invisible* journey…

    part of that is ME becoming interesting to ME…

    I started Argentine Tango lessons last night!!!
    It was Scary… /way\OUT of my comfort Zone…
    I contemplated NOT going…
    Thought of alll kinds of excuses…
    But I had told Too many people I was going to do it…
    Sooo I found the place…
    and for 1.5 hrs. I learned how to move my body
    in NEW and exciting ways!!!
    I am the oldest person there…
    This is on a Big Ten campus (in my town)
    so 18-22 yr olds… a couple of people a little older…
    But I want to learn this and They are very sweet!
    Yay!! ME!!!

  295.  #295Azure Blu on March 19, 2015 at 5:05 am

    {{{{Viollete}}}} #274
    I know you had been accessing your relationship with A for awhile….

    Even though it was something you ended… I know it still is a bit of a let down…
    Someone you shared closeness, energy and caring is not there and
    it didn’t work…
    But Darling Siren, IT”S SPRING@!
    Open the Windows and Doors and let
    the Warm, sunny, fresh breezes blow through and over you
    I believe it’s important to find someone who
    compliments our dreams and ambitions
    Sharing your International life and YOUR interests
    with someone should be a priority for the next CD!!

  296.  #296Azure Blu on March 19, 2015 at 5:17 am

    {{{{LTD #277}}}}
    Ahhh… I do love your feeling messages…
    To me if feels like you were able to get a response from him
    BUT i would challenge you to look at what his
    unavailability, ambiguity… ambivilance
    triggered in YOU…
    IS IT feelings of…
    Working for Love,
    being unlovable
    YOU giving unconditional love and attention to
    those most precious feelings in YOU

    This is the FREE therapy Rori talks about
    When we continue to CD…
    This is what gets us to OUR VERY OWN
    Happy Ever After
    with OURSELVES!!!
    BIG HUGGS my BRAVE and Beautiful Siren!!

  297.  #297Victoria on March 19, 2015 at 5:25 am

    For some reason I thought the road cone situation was an idiom I did not understand as a non-native speaker, lol.
    I personally would not worry about this. The only man I know who has been really chivalrous, opening doors and moving heavy objects for me was my dad. Otherwise, men in my country (yes, traditional culture) and in my age group (yes, 40+), are not chivalrous in this way, but they kind of definetely do not expect you to pay, not even for one drink, if you are their girlfriend.
    From the desciption of what AM sais he wants, “partner in crime, friend who he fancies etc, partner in adventures” I hear “FWB”. And, I totally believe he wants you to pay your share, so you need to be sure whether this suits you.
    I tend to steer away men who strongly enphasize the friendship part of the relationship. I have numerous female friends whom I love, and a few male friends who I have zero chemical attraction to, this last thing is the qualifying factor to become my male friend, no more male friends, thank you very much.
    F. was talking about being best friends some time ago, some king of friendship bullshit (gives me shivers!) but I said I am not interested in him as a friend, and if we stop being lovers, I highly doubt that I will be able to sustain any friendship with him, because I find him way too attractive for that. I think he could not decide whether to be insulted or flattered, lol.

  298.  #298Azure Blu on March 19, 2015 at 5:34 am

    Sooo on the topic of money…

    Spirit changed jobs 3 months ago (worked for the company for 11 yrs)…
    He is a sales rep for medical implants and is building up an new group of clients (im sure he signed a non-compete with his last job)

    He had mentioned he would be good for about 6 months…
    Lately he has been mentioning the fact that money is tight…
    I am not doing well financially but much better than I was…

    I was thinking of saying something to him…
    acknowledging our economic situations.
    That I have to be careful how often I go out and how much I spend and do things that are NOT costly.

    “I feel awkward bringing this up…
    Money is a intense topic for me…

    Any ideas on how to approach this…would be greatly appreciated
    Ohhh… lovely goddesses on Siren Island!

  299.  #299Azure Blu on March 19, 2015 at 5:36 am

    P.S. Spirit has almost always payed for everything…
    I have had him over for dinner once…. a couple of picnics and bought him dinner for his birthday…

  300.  #300Victoria on March 19, 2015 at 5:44 am

    Why exactly do you want to discuss it with him?
    Do you split the bill when you go out?
    What kind of reaction would you like to get from him?

  301.  #301Kim on March 19, 2015 at 5:49 am

    So. I was out on a date with MoM yesterday.
    It felt odd. First of all, he said he was thrown off course by last weekend (the one with the plan canceling without canceling when his sister was here). I listened but in my mind screamed ‘YOU were taken aback by dropping ME and me reacting to it..okaaaayyy’.
    I let him talk, I was totally resovled to let him speak. And listen. He stared into my eyes…said he loved me ‘more than I would ever know’. I smiled and listened…he said he was jealous when I went boating with another man.
    He wants me to be his.
    I smiled. I listened.
    Then he says: ‘please have patience, I have a lot of stuff to sort through’.
    When I got home, I felt angry. I have had tons of patience, actually. He was supposed to move this month, his idea, he was supposed to help me with bills last month already, his idea….he wants me to be his, but he doesn’t offer me the commitment I want.
    I feel very resentful this morning.
    Actually, I don’t ‘have to’ have patience. If I had the promises come true and the commitment I wanted, I wouldn’t go boating with other men, so. I am not being manipulated into sitting at home because of a gaze in the eye and a love confession – although nice and good feeling – and I have no more patience. If I said to my electricity supplier and the comdo management company to have patience while I search for money to pay my bills, they would probably have me locked up lol.
    I vowed to myself that I would not bring up anything anymore and see what he comes up with..and all he came up with was that he clearly feels insecure because of that weekend, that he is procrastinating more and I am supposed to have patience, and that he is jealous if I go boating with other men…and wants me to be his.
    Love is not a business deal….love is love…but let’s just turn this into, say a proposal at work, change the words a little bit to fit work/business life.. If I was to propose such (non) plans a boss, he/she would just laugh surely.
    That just on a side note. I am moving on with my life.

  302.  #302Azure Blu on March 19, 2015 at 5:54 am

    The last two times we have gone out he has mentioned the amount of the bill (he has never talked like this before) and that he is running low and trying to cut back (although he still goes out to restaurants and bars almost every night)
    I did contribute the last date we had… $10

    The reason I would want to bring it up is because if he needs me to contribute on a regular basis…
    I can’t afford to go out very often… and I would only be able to pay for my drink and NOT eat..
    I am struggling to recover from economic disaster
    for the past 5 years…

    No reaction from him… it would be me trying to avoid an awkward situation if we ended up on a restaurant and the bill was substantial and
    he needed me to help pay.
    does this make sense?

  303.  #303Victoria on March 19, 2015 at 5:57 am

    Something else. I am dating a man who is heavily in debt and whose annual income at significantly lower than mine.
    He informed me of the situation early on … I listened sympathetically. I then told him that I happen to have a friendly relationship with money… That I am lucky to be debt free, and to have a good job. I asked him, would he lile me to contribute to paying the bills when we go out because I would be happy to.
    He said, no-no, of course not, I just want you to know that I am not a man of great means, but I see your clothes, your lifestyle, I would like to be able to take you to places that are similar to what you are used to. I said I’d rather be with him wherever he choosed to go, and enjoy his company, and he should never worry that he needs to take me to fancy places, because I am interesting in him, not in the resatraunt we are going to. I try to pay once in a while, but for the last year or so he never let me do it. Actually, I think, for 3 years together, I have paid at a resraurant once, because he had forgotten his wallet, and I was very pissed off afterwards, not because of the money, but about what kind of man forgets his wallet! I have cooked for him endless times however, and I try to reciprocate in other ways.

  304.  #304Azure Blu on March 19, 2015 at 5:58 am

    My 298 response was to Victoria’s 296 questions.

  305.  #305Femininewoman on March 19, 2015 at 6:04 am

    I think nothing of the road cone situation. He made a request that to me sounded normal. No human being is going to do everything

  306.  #306Azure Blu on March 19, 2015 at 6:08 am

    Victoria #299
    Mmmmm… I have, in the past, mentioned my financial situation fairly early… especially if they discuss theirs with me…
    But Spirit never talked about it.

    Several of the Rori coaches said NOT to bring it up…

    However, especially at retirement age (which I am and all my dates are), how you are set financially is VERY important in deciding if this person will be able to keep up with what we each have in mind for retirement (vacations, traveling, working/not working, lifestyle etc.)
    I still believe it IS important to share this with men I am getting close to…
    I like what F shared with you early on… and what you said back…
    The guys who I have dated and I shared my financial situation said the Exact same thing to me…
    as long as I have a long term plan and I can cover my bills My financial situation was fine with them.

  307.  #307Azure Blu on March 19, 2015 at 6:27 am

    Kim #297…
    Mmmm… i think you listened level 3, you were respectful and kind…
    But I agree with what others have said…
    Nothing needs to be said… He has discussed things with you and actions are NOT matching his words…
    Your actions will speak volumes…
    I like using this statement:
    “I don’t want to date anyone but you, I Love you!
    But, I feel insecure and disconnected when promises are made and not followed through. I understand you need time… and I will continue dating others. When you are ready to take action I will be glad to see that.”

  308.  #308Victoria on March 19, 2015 at 6:31 am

    This topic is so important! It is a major consideration I have for my relationship with F. It is a reason why I do not want to marry him (not that he has asked me to, lol, but I think he senses where I stand on this, even if we have not discussed it openly). But I would not dare to bring it up…
    I have no idea what the Rori coaches say, but they are usually right…Uggggh. How about try to limit your consumption to only what you can pay for when you go out, and then, if he asks why, explain?
    I hope someone else has better advice…

  309.  #309Mistea1 on March 19, 2015 at 6:40 am

    Azure 219,
    Thanks for your support. I’m so glad you and Spirit are together. Those kind of situations one an always work out and you are doing it so well. Congrats.

  310.  #310Andrea on March 19, 2015 at 6:50 am

    Wow, this is what it feels like to be totally into ME.

    My small town is all abuzz because we purchased an indoor football league for our brand new event center. So all around town big, strong, athletic men are popping up; at bars, in restaurants, in the parks near the college, and many of them staying at our hotel.

    All the girls at the front desk: flirty, smiling, eyes battering. mmmmm it’s fun for all of us to be so feminine.

    Last night I was alone at the front desk. Four of the men were down in the lobby just needing constant attention. Flirting with me, asking all sorts of questions. Just the way young men are. I was having a good time with it all and feeling very flattered.

    But then one of them left me his phone number. And from everything that was in me: I didn’t want it. I thanked him but told him no. No explanation, no apology, just… no.

    Tuesday night at the St. Patricks Day celebration in my town, an older gentleman who has been eyeing me came over and bought my best girlfriend and I a drink. Then he monopolized my attention for about fifteen minutes until he got right down to the point. He wanted to have me for his woman.

    I told him, “Thank you for your attention and for the drink, but no. I don’t feel romantic toward you.”

    He, “Can we just be friends?”

    Me, “What does “friends” mean to you?”

    He: “It means that when my heart is feeling hurt I can look in my phone and think oh Andrea, there’s a good woman I can call.”

    Me, “No. I don’t want to be a woman that men call when their heart is hurt. Thank you though. I am a good woman, but I have no need of a new friend.”

    Later that night he came up to me and he said, “You know, I’ve never had anyone be so completely honest with me before. I really appreciate that and it makes me like you even more.”

    And then he asked me if I thought my best friend would be interested in him…. hahahahahah

    I have a man that I used to be very interested in. A lot of the women my age are interested in him. Tall, handsome, long dark hair, native american and white.

    We’ve had some “after the bar” make out sessions and he’s driven me home on a few occasions after concerts of mutual friends. But he’s never called me even though he’s asked for my number several times.

    So I’ve shrugged my shoulders and thought to myself… hmmm … listen to his actions.

    The other night he came up to me at a party and wanted to be the guy that I hang with at the party and then go home afterward with. I told him, “No, I don’t feel very sexual tonight, and I don’t feel a tug toward you.”

    He wanted an explanation: didn’t I find him handsome? didn’t I remember our kisses and the last time we touched each other? didn’t I want to explore that with him?

    I told him, “No, I want a long time love. I want The One. And from your actions toward me, I can tell you aren’t interested in that right now with me. I feel tired of wasting energy on one night stands.”

    He: some long explanation about the type of woman he wants and why don’t I call him and he needs to know he can rely on a woman and count on her to rescue him and blah blah..

    And at one point I turned to him and looked at him strangely. I said, “I’m not interested in being locked into an energetic debate with you right now. You haven’t shown me that you deserve even this amount of time with me.”

    And he wasn’t mad. He just laughed and laughed. “I want a woman who is loyal to me and who understands….. (something about his mom passing away when he was younger….) and That’s why I’m not ready to be fully trusting of any woman… and blah blah.”

    And I realized that honestly, with everything that was in me, I just really did not care. The reason this revelation is momentous to me is that there was a point in my dating life when I would have tried to be THAT woman. THAT woman who can change him, who can “help” him, who can be there for him. The woman who can undo all of the pain… etc…

    This time, I focused on myself. Am I turned on right now? no. Am I interested in this conversation right now? no. Do I want to continue talking to him? no.

    I said, “Do you want to hear my response to you?”

    And he said, “I already know what it is.”

    And then it was over. But later that night a group of us were in his hot tub and this man was so focused on me. He wanted to impress me. He wanted to massage my feet and get my attention. Even though there were other women there who wanted HIS attention.

    Interesting. Then yesterday he face book messaged me about what a good time he had. Interesting. He… reaching out to me…. in the light of day. hmmm

    All these are good lessons for me. And this is all good practice. I’m hoping I can be this honest and this Real with myself the next time I feel an actual genuine interest in a man again. It’s easy to be honest when the chemistry isn’t there. How will I be if I ever find a man who I really want to connect with again?

  311.  #311Victoria on March 19, 2015 at 7:00 am

    I totally support you, but please do not seek to have the romantic relationship follow the same rules as the business relationship and paying your bills.
    It is different, but also, even in work relationships, you need to negotiate all the time, very few things happen automatically, unless you work on a conveyor line. The more complex work you do, the more complicated it is with personal relationships and the rules are less clear.
    I am not sure what to do when he says something but procrastinates doing it… I have had several situations like this one with F., and I have broken up with him 3 times over such things, but then, ever since I discovered Rori (last fall) I am choosing lo lean back, let go, not well on the diappointment, and he is getting better at keeping promises. BUT I do not have a more attractive man chasing me… I see you are very tempted for one more boat trip, and I see the patience-requesting man has not made weekend plans for you… this kind of solves itself then.

  312.  #312Mistea1 on March 19, 2015 at 7:03 am

    Victoria 221,
    Yes, you are a great help to me and always ask insightful questions. I think you can be a little mischievious with me but I can be a little goofy myself! I remember once you asked me if MusicTd was ‘the one’. I was able to evaluate what it meant and why you asked that and was able to clarify the situation to my self. Excellent.

    You asked about my continuing cding. You are right, I am hesitant right now, because I am a little shy about the cding part and because I feel stress about this possible stalking issue and the little bit of chemical reaction left.

    The chemical reaction part needs to be near zero. In addition, he will stay in his home territory i.e. his church and not show up where I am in such a (disturbing the event) sort of way. Then I will happily Cd.

    I was able to enjoy the event I went to yesterday in a carefree way and that felt good.

  313.  #313Victoria on March 19, 2015 at 7:13 am

    You have a good plan. What about the law guy?

  314.  #314Kim on March 19, 2015 at 7:16 am

    Azure, hmmmm….I would say that if he can afford to go out every night, he probably has money to do it…so as long as you are not suggesting the Ritz to him…I would say let him do the invitations/dates/paying.
    He can also cook for you or do something cheap…you know?
    I read somewhere that we don’t have to ‘pay a man to date us’….I certainly do not in my economic situation. I never ever go out myself, so I am not offering to pay anymore when a man invites me….or I might very hesitantly if I don’t knkw him yet. Spirit knows your situation.

  315.  #315Kim on March 19, 2015 at 7:19 am

    307 yes Victoria I agree..it solves itself.
    Point being, I love to spend time with him, but I don’t like to feel ‘strung along’ on pretty words.
    We have been doin our own thing most Saturdays for a while because he has been busy with his sister or sorting out his stuff..now he grumbled because I wanted to go boating Saturday, well he didn’t make a date.
    I don’t stop a man from making dates or stepping up, so if he doesn’t want to…not really my problem.

  316.  #316Mistea1 on March 19, 2015 at 7:33 am

    Lovetodance 278,

    Thank you for telling me about your experience with someone unavailable. I seized the opportunity to work on some of my long standing issues because I knew that these were best worked on in a relationship of sorts.

    Before I did this I thought deeply of my possible payback. I had to be willing to actually give myself to a long term relationship. Otherwise it would be grossly unfair to someone whose heart was all in this for me to cut and run when I got what I wanted. I did not want to have regrets later. I must admit the music was a huge draw for me.

    As luck,. . . . .or fate would have it the guy is truly unavailable. Aaah well.

  317.  #317Kim on March 19, 2015 at 7:36 am

    303 oh Azure, that is great! Thank you!

  318.  #318Mistea1 on March 19, 2015 at 7:42 am

    Lovetodance 278,

    I have paid a price. He may be the only person I have loved. I love him enough that I want what’s best for him even if it isn’t me.

  319.  #319Azure Blu on March 19, 2015 at 7:50 am

    Victoria #304
    I agree… Yes this topic is VERY important especially at this point in Spirit and my relationship…
    To the outside world it looks like I will be inheriting a large amount of money.
    which, unfortunately is NOT the truth…
    My step Dad does not have my mother (or her 3 daughters) inheriting any of his estate, which is substantial…
    Spirit has been upfront with me on the topic of finances… when he mentions this topic again…
    I will share with him that I am very careful with how often I do go out and that there are many inexpensive and free things to do that are VERY fun.

  320.  #320lovetodance on March 19, 2015 at 7:52 am

    Dear Azure…

    I feel a long [possibly cellular] tradition of the man paying…It feels to me their act of chivalry that keeps them feeling like a man to themselves and to me…

    and evidently this changes from cultural to generational differences…but since i am old school this is what works for me…i feel fine splitting tabs when the relationship is well established….or taking turns or paying every now and again….

    My last long term relationship we each put in a piggy bank money at the end of the week..he put in twice as much as me….and after a year we went to hawaii for 10 days with that saved money covering most of it!

    i do believe money can be dealt with….in a light hearted way….where he knows that we know…and we most importantly want to be with THEM…the fanciness of the resturant is not the goal…

    when finances are tight i feel it very bonding to say lets explore all the wonderful less expensive places to eat and begin to make food together!

    And yes being of retirement age does color the picture….and also having more than a man can be a delicate balance…..it sounds like Victoria handles it well with her guy….

    so i don’t know if i said anything that you don’t already so know azure or answered anything that you were asking… i just feel the money thing can be dealt with lightly…that theres are fun ways to enjoy much less expensively and creating a closeness that comes from creatively and caringly… being aware of finances and how to have a fabulous time within your budgets…

  321.  #321Victoria on March 19, 2015 at 7:55 am

    Meanwhile, I have a man on my hands, who is always late. I need to have my whole schedule rotate around him to accomodate for his lateness. I can live with this most of the time, but it is sooooo annoying. He just called me to book me for a date later today, but said he has to do something else before that, and, just by his whereabouts I know he will be late. I grumbled a little bit that we will have just a little time (I have other plans as well for later this evening) and he got PISSED OFF. Just his tone of voiced changed, and he was short on the phone. And yes, he makes no firm plans, is always late, and I need to twiddle my fingers and be fully available all the time. I want a boatman, please.

  322.  #322lovetodance on March 19, 2015 at 7:59 am

    314 mistea1

    YES….. and possibly you love yourself so much now that you know how impossible and traumatic being with him might have been for you!

    its SO good to know we can love, that we can feel so deeply and passionately and So magnificent when we find the man who can truely meet us there!

  323.  #323Azure Blu on March 19, 2015 at 8:02 am

    LTD #316
    Ahhhhh… the windows just flew open and a warm tropical breeze wafted over me and the bright sparkly sun is shining into this office of mine….
    Ohhhh!!! darling, amazing siren…
    YES.. the playful, easy, fun intimacy building way to handle down times when money is a bit tight!!!
    Such wonderful ideas and it isn’t the type of restaurant it IS that WE are OUT TOGETHER…
    And there are MANY inexpensive fun things to do and EXPOLORING the possibilities Is SOOO fun!!
    AND it isn’t the End of the World… people learn to have fun and make do since the beginning of time
    Thank you, Thank you!!!

  324.  #324lovetodance on March 19, 2015 at 8:07 am

    293 Azure

    yes you are so right….

    his fading away, my confusion at first….trying to wrangle out some clarity from myself and him bout what was happening…

    it hit me so clearly…wait… its not spose to feel like this…me working so hard here….its spose to be like honey….honey flowing towards me…like ease…
    when i felt that in my being…i knew …..NEXT

    i feel its my ambivalence that triggered his…i can accept this…i know i had too many considerations about his physical and financial health…and his depressions….
    i knew these issues would be issues….

    i hope he and i can become friends….he is a very worthwhile person…..

    and i promise i will cherish myself azure…and see that
    his pulling away is not an indication of my lack…well i will work on that :}…its such a major un-concious default position…and that is what i am practicing changing here with you, with all the beautiful healing and healthy sirens on our island of truth…

  325.  #325Mistea1 on March 19, 2015 at 8:10 am

    Victoria 309,

    Heh, heh, Lawguy is more like family, except his chili has beans in it and ours doesn’t. However, there is just enough to remind me he is not ‘family’ and I do engage in a little mild flirting. For 2 strangers emailing only, there is no relationship, and so far no expectation unless he suggests it.

    The guy is a trial lawyer for goodness sake and he is used to going in for the “kill.” How hard could this be. I know, I know, dating is different. I’m experimenting here, . . . . . again.

    When I got married I totally engineered it. We lasted 25 years though, but I want to try a different way. The POF dates I did have were with a man who was very nice and who took control of the dates etc. Oh, I felt so relaxed and was treated like the Queen of the May. Unfortunately there was no spark and he got a rather devastating diagnosis which derailed the whole thing.

    I’m a curious person and I like to try “what if” and find out what happens.

  326.  #326lovetodance on March 19, 2015 at 8:13 am

    283 victoria

    i love this victoria….

    ‘I am finding the strenght in me, these days, to be gentler to people, even at work, and to apologize to people even when I did not think I did anything wrong, but for the sake of the relationship, for the sake of moving ahead and not fueling each others negative energy. I am thinking to myself, you know, me and this guy (a colleague) we will never be friends, and he is mean to me, but nevertheless it is up to me to choose what to tell him. And it is no longer about how I want to change his behavior (which I can’t) but about how I see me, and my own choices, and my own reactions. Some of my reactions make me happy and content, and give me peace of mind, while others make us go back to what happened, again and again, replaying the episode. To me this usually means that deep inside me I am not happy with myself, for what I did. I wish you peace of mind!’

    i feel this is so true and so my experience that i forever will be working on and with…thank you for articulating it so well….

  327.  #327Femininewoman on March 19, 2015 at 8:27 am

    mmmmm Andrea how authentic !!!

  328.  #328Azure Blu on March 19, 2015 at 8:43 am

    Andrea #310
    I agree with FW!!!
    Thank yu for sharing
    alll you listening to YOUR heart as you
    interact in a NEW and Exciting way
    NOT being INVISIBLE to YOU…
    but being NEW and Interesting to YOU!!

  329.  #329Azure Blu on March 19, 2015 at 8:50 am

    Kim #317

  330.  #330Sami Wunder on March 19, 2015 at 8:52 am

    # 215 Heartbeat

    You sound so lovely.

    Yes. You can leave a place where you don´t feel good. You can always find “softer ways” of exiting the situation that don´t necessarily have to look extreme to the man and yet honor yourself in the moment.

    I´d feel glad to help you. I am a Rori Raye trained coach and if you like, you can try my free session on my website for more personal help. Love, Sami

  331.  #331Kim on March 19, 2015 at 8:52 am

    Victoria LOL!!
    I have found my man got very late…for dates…procrastination everywhere, also at work…his time management is awful. Incidentally, I read somewhere that perennially late men are commitmetphobes that can’t even commit to a time lol. Who knows.
    Yesterday, guess what, he turned up early/ on time…because he knows something is very off here, and suddenly he can be on time. It is not a coincidence.
    I find that very interesting.
    I suspect if you had a boatman, your guy might just be better with his timekeeping hahahaa!

  332.  #332Mistea1 on March 19, 2015 at 9:39 am

    Dominique 267,

    Oh, oh, I just got it! You wrote if he is a family member you can humor him which tends to work well.

    I can do that in the environment of his “church home during a recital.” Perhaps that will keep him content as indeed I am in his home when I go there for an event. Thank you!!

  333.  #333Femininewoman on March 19, 2015 at 9:48 am

    HeartBeat welcome. Just to let you know I give myself permission to leave any situation that feels bad. Even with my boss and it has never backfired.

  334.  #334Dominique on March 19, 2015 at 10:26 am

    Mandy – 271 – My heart is bursting reading this. As difficult as this has been, from where you came to now has me total awe. You are an inspiration. I feel delighted J has agreed to this. As I felt sure he would when presented to him in ways he could hear and accept.

    YAY YOU!!!

    Love to you.


  335.  #335Dominique on March 19, 2015 at 10:37 am

    Azure Blu – 294 – I feel so very proud of you for stretching your comfort zone muscles – and look what fun you had!!! Dance in any form feels so good, helps us feel into out bodies where everything lies, all emotions, all the old stuff, good and bad feeling. It’s a lovely way of expression.

    Love to you.


  336.  #336Dominique on March 19, 2015 at 10:42 am

    Azure Blu – 298 – No need to mention anything until/unless the issue arises, and what you started with is great. You might want to add something like – It feels good simply being with you. And this doesn’t have to cost much. A walk in the park feels lovely too. (or whatever activity you enjoy, such as free concerts, picnics, and so on.)


  337.  #337Azure Blu on March 19, 2015 at 10:50 am

    Dominique #335 & 336
    Ohhhh… thank you for your comments…
    means BUNCHES to me.. wise, wonderful Siren,

    Yes, all of this is ME falling MORE in LOVE with
    My boy taking me, bravely, out and doing NEW,
    Great, Fun activities!!
    Next is learning Italian
    and More Volunteering for the food bank!

  338.  #338Dominique on March 19, 2015 at 10:58 am

    Mistea – 332 – How brilliant you are. YES!!!

    Love to you.


  339.  #339Andrea on March 19, 2015 at 12:03 pm

    I have a “career” interview this evening.

    This is the first time ever…

    I KNOW what I can do for this business. I KNOW I’m spot on what they want, need, and the person who can help them grow their business.

    What I want to know… first time ever in my life… What can they DO for ME???

    I am the best person for the position that they are trying to fill. What can they do to make me want to give them my energy, expertise, and contacts?

    I feel empowered.

  340.  #340Linda on March 19, 2015 at 6:48 pm

    Something has shifted late today! I dont know why but it almost feels like I had a joint out of place and it slipped back in! This has nothing to do with what I have been sharing about P.

    All day I have been in almost tears at work. I could at times almost not keep it together. Yeah a smidgen of it was about this stuff within myself around P but honestly it really mostly has nothing to do with that or him at all.

    I have felt under such pressure. My work environment has been so stressful with the ultra mirco scopic management and schedule changes. Working looong hours by myself. Worrying over every little detail at work , possible errors and being exhausted by it all. I felt like an elephant has been sitting on me for weeks ever since the first week of February.

    Today as the day was winding down and I was buttoning up things… my boss walked in and I instantly felt a lump in my throat and that I might implode but mustered a pleasant hello. At first I felt she was on a fishing mission. Asking me how I was and how things were going etc etc. I was faced with a decision. Tell her what I thought she wanted to hear or be authentic…… I chose authentic. Then something awesome happened. She followed suit.! Before I knew it she was saying I know you work hard I never thought you didnt . I just have to have it show up in black in white. She said I know this place throws curve balls at you all the time and you handle then with grace and great competency. Then she said…. I made the changes I had to… but I placed you in these hours and working alone because I knew it would instantly make you stand out . Give you an opportunity to really shine and you really are! I told her I actually do like working by myself because working with the new co-worker I had been such a strain. She knew that it our personalities were not a fit and that is why she move her . THen she referred to her miss smoke and mirrors. ( asking me to not repeat that ever). wow… my thoughts exactly.

    THe whole exchange between us lasted about 30 minutes and she left. I popped back into what I was doing and rushing around and suddenly realized … the elephant that I felt had been sitting on my chest for weeks was gone ! I thought she was testing me.. setting me up for failure but the opposite was the truth.

    I feel like other things in my life are going to shift.. I feel expectant but I and hopeful tonight

  341.  #341Linda on March 19, 2015 at 6:55 pm

    I meant to say expectant and and hopeful… sorry I am so tired. long day. 🙂

  342.  #342Linda on March 19, 2015 at 6:59 pm

    Heck I would not be surprised if I heard from P and he would have a whole new attitude or somethings… LOL

  343.  #343Dominique on March 19, 2015 at 7:07 pm

    Linda – This is so great. I can only imagine what relief and joy you must feel.

    Love to you. 🙂


  344.  #344Mandy on March 19, 2015 at 7:26 pm

    So I am visiting my parents house. Thought I’d do laundry and have dinner. My dad brushed by and told me I look like I gained weight and I look like I haven’t been a working out.

    There goes my nice day happiness, serenity…all down the fucking drain…thanks for the encouragement you freaking bull in a China closet…I feel so triggered I could blow stuff up…

  345.  #345HeartBeat on March 19, 2015 at 8:59 pm

    #330 Sami Wunder
    Thank you for responding, I feel reassured that Rori and her coaches are watching over this blog.
    I really enjoyed being in my feminine energy.

    I feel a bit confused by: “You can always find “softer ways” of exiting the situation that don´t necessarily have to look extreme to the man and yet honor yourself in the moment.”
    Would you please explain what you mean by this?

    Warm Wishes,

    #333 Femininewoman
    Hello and thank you for the welcome 🙂 I felt a bit apprehensive about being here but I am now feeling a lot better about it.
    I enjoyed reading your comment. I enjoyed hearing how clear you are about it.
    Since feeling more in tune with my feelings, even just thinking about taking a step back, I feel this strong sense of liberation and permission – I feel like I’ve taken the leash off.

  346.  #346Emerson on March 19, 2015 at 10:20 pm

    Sirens I have met a few really good men recently…yes they are taken, but it’s good to know they are out there, and it feels good to talk to them. In a respectful way of course.
    I also have been broadening my horizons with my job….I am trying to be more open to new options.

  347.  #347Mandy on March 19, 2015 at 11:59 pm

    Thanks Dominique

  348.  #348Indigo on March 20, 2015 at 12:53 am

    Heartbeat 345,

    This thing of finding “softer ways to exit” is a big philosophy of mine, so I think I know what Sami Wunder was trying to say.

    For me, you can “back out” of a situation that creates drama, bad feeling and damages a relationship, or you can do it in a way that is soft and dignified, yet strong, which honours both you and the other person and doesn’t destroy anything.

    For example, if you leave a situation using a feeling message, and you do it gently, such as “I’m not feeling comfortable” or “I’m feeling tired and like I want to go home” or whatever, then you are honouring the other person, but the REAL strength is in the fact that you are removing yourself. You don’t EVER have to stay in a situation that feels bad, but you can leave in a way that doesn’t damage the relationship or look like “drama”.

  349.  #349Mandy on March 20, 2015 at 1:04 am

    Indigo I like the idea of leaving the situation without drama. Brilliant. I do this a lot.

  350.  #350Indigo on March 20, 2015 at 1:12 am

    So, I am peeling back a big layer of pain to reveal a wound that is rather deep – it makes me feel so vulnerable and exposed, I sincerely hope it is healing. It has to do with how lonely I feel, the lack of close people in my life. I think the discussion with Kim and Azure Blu about being ignored and sidelined by our families touched on it, and before I knew it, I was right there in that painful place inside myself. For the most part, I have only had what I would describe as superficial friendships, twittering, flittering friends whom I’ve never really felt I could count on or connect with. My real close people with whom there was love and who would be there for me have been extremely few and far between. And my relationship with my family is kinda superficial too. I don’t know how to heal this, but it makes me feel very lonely. It makes the loss of someone I *do* connect to and feel important to feel unbearable.

  351.  #351Victoria on March 20, 2015 at 5:19 am

    I think it is never too late to make new friends. I know this is easier when someone is extroverted; one way or another, the realization that friendship makes our life better is an essential first step. People crave friendship (like they crave love) and you would be amazed how many people want to be your friends, if they would not fear that you would reject them.
    As for being close with the family… I have kind of given up on that, even though I suspect this can be fixed too with some effort on the part of both parties. I think Azure said that only recently she managed to have a good relationship with her mother… I still have not cured mine, I simply do not have the energy to deal with her, or with my father. F. constantly tries to tell me (gently) to work on that, he lost his father a few years ago, and they had not spoken to each other 5 years prior to that, and he carries this enormous sorrow that they did not reconcile before his father passed away. Oh well… I don’t have the energy.

  352.  #352lovetodance on March 20, 2015 at 5:20 am

    ohhhhh beautiful indigo….

    such a lovely and soulful woman….i understand someone of your depth and caring so deserving of strong support and love from the amount of close friends you would desire….

    i know its all there in you to have this…and yes it does sound that you are at a point in your life where you are ready to ‘peel’ this layer back….where of course you feel exposed and raw….

    the way i experience you here, your ability to reach out and connect is very powerful…i feel this is your ‘edge’ now…

    i am imagining you having what you need here….that this happens in your life more and more….that the individuals that warrant your trust and closeness come ever closer…that you come ever closer to them… enjoying this bond and presence with you….

  353.  #353lovetodance on March 20, 2015 at 5:38 am

    good morning sirens from over here…

    it is the spring equinox!….a time of renewal…of new beginnings……a time to sweep out the old and plant the seeds of hope enthusiasm and freshness….

    i woke with both sides now….
    yes a time to begin anew
    yes a feeling of tiredness and overwhelm
    ahhhh such is life….the polarity of it all….

    i need to imagine ease now….imagine that i can move thru my life with ease…that what i need….love, affection, closeness, excitement, attraction, joy, stability….that this is coming to me in all forms…

    that i can be light-hearted…i can be open….that i can even date …maybe date not the ‘one’ and still be happy and light and give and get some of what we all need….

    i have some challenges professionally now….and financially….i am wanting to…need to…move thru these things with ease and optimism….

    i feel myself starting the day with the intention of clearing out, lightening up …sweeping out the new….bringing in the light….inviting my strong robust and playful boy to jump in with his adorable and vibrant energy….to support me, to stand by and delight in me as we move along this new day…..

    and i invite my beautiful feminine soft and luscious self to be open to love and sensuality and connection from men who are orbiting around me….i invite them to come closer….i invite myself to allow that!

    happy vernal equinox beautiful sirens! may this be a time of felt renewal in all the ways that you may need and want!!!

  354.  #354lovetodance on March 20, 2015 at 5:41 am

    yikes….i mean ‘sweeping out the old’…..and making space for the new….

    ahhhh thats better :]

  355.  #355Femininewoman on March 20, 2015 at 5:58 am

    Elsie I am really feeling curious about your situation. Hope you feel comfortable to start sharing again.

  356.  #356Azure Blu on March 20, 2015 at 6:00 am

    {{{Indigo #350}}}
    I feel sad that you are experiencing pain
    BUT I know there is joy and a new awakening
    on the other side!!!
    I am sending you warm hugggggs, love,
    and courage darling, AMAZING< Siren…

    I think I mentioned… the journey to healing
    MY invisibleness… is probably a lifetime…
    AND recently the newest layer I was able to peal…
    WAS very PAINFUL…
    BUT the light hearted, joy I am experiancing
    Is exciting!!
    A FIRsT Layer for me to peel (beginning 10 yrs ago)…
    I came to the realization
    I did NOT want to continue relationships with people who treated my like I am invisible… or who triggered this feeling in me… so I set boundaries (my mother, my sisters and some friends)
    I felt much better…
    VERY scary indeed to stand up for myself with these primary relationships (I was seeing a good therapist)

    and since then have felt I am dealing with this trigger on a day to day basis…
    AND now the Rori tools for 3 yrs and
    coaching with RR coach, Natalina
    and then MY FREE THERAPY from Spirit…
    and I realized…
    I Too, am treating MYSELF like I'm invisible!!!
    Which somehow has to do with me thinking
    I NEED to be Entertained and Rescued by someone else (giving ALLL MY power AWAY)

    Sit IN this Indigo… let it wash over you and through you and IN YOU… give it lots of LOVE (words for me too)

  357.  #357Mistea1 on March 20, 2015 at 6:09 am

    Indigo 350,

    ditto what Love todance and Victoria said.

    For myself as I got older I discovered that I had, oh I don’t know, outgrown or comes to terms with the loss of the parents. They were physically gone and even before that it seemed as if they couldn’t fulfill this need in myself for that longing for support and unconditional love I had either never had or lost.

    Looking to a man to give this support didn’t seem to work either. My children grew up and went out on their own. I felt the lack of close people in my life.

    What I’m discovering as you may be is that first we have to be close with ourselves. Count on me to support me in making the decisions that keep me safe and happy first. Yes, it’s hard to realize how we’ve been letting ourselves down all these years. Talk about the ultimate betrayal! That’s the raw realization and in our increasing awareness it really hurts.

    So we project this pain outward unto others especially family. Of course it hurts most when we think that we’ve discovered someone we can have this connection with and oops, we’ve done it again, they reject us. I think it may be true that those with the most friends may be the lonliest of all.

    Keep on reaching out and connecting; you are strengthing yourself every time. Maybe some of those you reach out to including family are unable to reciprocate now or never. We just don’t know what kind of inner battle they are fighting. At least maybe they can sense our solidarity and come back when they are ready. Indigo, you are doing well and those you touch will ultimately appreciate it and you.

  358.  #358Azure Blu on March 20, 2015 at 6:14 am

    Being raised with 2 sisters and moving VERY often
    My best friends were girls (sisters) while I was growing up…
    So throughout my lifetime I have sought out and cultivated girl friendships!!

    There is NOTHING like a girl friend to giggle, do things with, shop and cry with… listen to my dreams and my heartaches…
    But just recently, since Rori, I have begun using the tools with my friendships also…
    I would overfunction, chase, be needy, play victim and be a know-it-all…not be authentic or vulnerable with them…
    I was SOOO needy for their love and attention I would be whoever they needed me to be…
    Sooo, I really wasn’t much of a friend that anyone could depend on or trust…
    NOW, with the Rori tools, I am LESS Needy…
    I LOVE ME… I lean back, I am more gentle and Kind, cultivate the ones that come towards me, and practice being more and more my authentic self… So THEY feel my love toward them…
    which in turn has opened THEIR HEARTS to me!!!
    I am forever growing and learning the language of LOVE…
    and as always Siren Island is a place of friendship, love, companionship, and you all teach me and give me sooo much… THANK YOU… and love to you!

  359.  #359Azure Blu on March 20, 2015 at 6:23 am

    When i read your post… I feel happy and warm…
    alll the wonderful ways you are sharing with us
    how you are using the Feeling Messages…
    leaning back… loving YOU!!!
    So very nice to have you join us here
    on Siren Island!

  360.  #360Azure Blu on March 20, 2015 at 6:31 am

    Beloved #18
    Wow!! my mother was a lot like yours… regarding money… She was SOOO jealous when my dad would buy us thoughtful, nice clothes, jewelry, guitars, stuff for our rooms…
    She was/is sooo jealous hearted…
    She would GIVE all HIS hard earned money (she didn’t work) to the church or any person who claimed to be a man of g-o-d!!! And hated to spend ANY money on her 3 daughters!!
    I had forgotten how that felt…
    Like I was INVISIBLE…

  361.  #361Azure Blu on March 20, 2015 at 6:39 am

    LTD #353
    Thank you and Happy Vernal Equinox to YOU!!
    Yes, me too… I am sweeping out the old and
    opening my windows and doors
    to ALLOW Alll the new I can handle (and MORE)
    Into MY LIFE…

  362.  #362Azure Blu on March 20, 2015 at 6:47 am

    Linda #340
    Courageous to be authentic and vulnerable.
    Soo glad she was able to respond in kind!!!
    YOU ARE A magnificent Siren!

  363.  #363Sophie on March 20, 2015 at 11:26 am

    Indigo – i’m there – I’ve felt long periods of loneliness and isolation being so far from home and I only meet some people(few) I connect with – the last few weeks i’ve been craving closensss and physical comfort from a man. I spent the day today with the only one who has been consistently i contact – he took me out – i’ve kissed him. He wouldn’t spend the night because he’s in love with someone else – ugh – who to be fair he has ay more chance of a future with with me and I can;t help him for his sense of control and loyalty but ugh.I feel I have to gently let him go from my life (though he doesn’t want me to).I will – it feels painful – I deserve to be someone’s number one and I feel too confused with where the boundaries lie. I feel sad, Åll these lessons all these learnings, all this time alone. ˜MAN when will the lessons/doovers/painful transformations give me a break. I will process and it will be okay and in my head I know it’s fo the best – it my hear though just pain, longing, disappointment, confusion…just keep on going right on through…. (that’s my advice to me) (sad weary heart of mine) xxx

  364.  #364Azure Blu on March 20, 2015 at 1:08 pm

    I feel so sad that you are hurting…
    Being in another country, different culture for such a long time, alone… would be VERY exciting
    BUT on the other hand sometimes quite lonely
    as you have described…
    Please know that I am rooting for you and
    am hugging you and holding you virtually near
    to my heart… lovely, Siren!

  365.  #365lovetodance on March 20, 2015 at 1:16 pm

    me too sophie….i wish you a good woman friend to be there now…to talk and process with…to laugh and cry and help bring things into perspective…

    this too shall pass….i so want for you comfort and huge senses of well being…

    in my heart if i had a fairy wand…i would scoop you up from there and plant you in a place where you feel secure and seen and loved….

    of course that is what i want for myself…for all of us

    ps lots happening astrologically that is adding to the intensity for alll….[for those who believe in such things….me being one [;]

  366.  #366lovetodance on March 20, 2015 at 1:25 pm

    y’know i have been so lucky all my life with women friends….it is the relating with men that at some point i made different….

    i know they are different…the male of the species but not maybe as different as i have made them…

    i am going to put back on my love them all glasses….i knows they ain’t woman but i am unzippered heart with the womens….i am going to experience more that sense of authenticity and openness i feel with woman….and risk more of that with the mens…

    i know rori and the other coaches give us scripts and info and positions to relate with the mens….i just need right now to see them more like me….than less….

    and i do so know how romantic physical attraction changes the energy dynamic….
    oy veh….what a huge journey this all continues to be

    ps my optimism this morning was a prayer…cuz really i am struggling with sadness today…wrapping my arms around my sadness and my beauty…

    i have opened the windows, i am sweeping with the good image of sweeping out the old…i am vacumming up the un-needed, the burdens…i am sighing alot..i am getting ready for work and annoiting myself with my letting good essential oil….

    on ward on ward on ward…

  367.  #367Kim on March 20, 2015 at 1:30 pm

    Aw. There’s a sad vibe…Ladies I do understand that lonely feeling, but I have developed some tools to deal with it when it comes..have you read ‘The Power of Now’ by Tolle?
    He brings everything back to ‘right here right now’…and sees all our negative thinking and feeling as the human painbody/insanity/ego problems….and in many ways he says we produce them ourselves being human. Ok, this didn’t help me either but he says animals do not have those problems as they usually just concentrate on the NOW.
    So now..lol..whenever I feel bad, I am trying to shift it by..gettin into nature, appreciating small things, like the sun..striking up a little conversation with a stranger..homeless person or whoever.
    Just know it will pass…everything in life changes (and passes) and that includes love, family, people we love..the love we have or they have – everything changes all the time, and that is just something we have to a accept.
    I think he says we cannot expect to always feel happy, but we can work towards feeling ‘at peace’…and I kinda like that concept.
    Increasingly, I am convinced that this ‘at peace’ feeling will not come from another person, a job promotion, a relationship or money..no, it comes from within us.
    If we feel lonely….it comes from within us.
    There are billions of peoole on this planet.
    We can connect with many of them, whether we are introverts or extroverts, with a shallow talk or a deep understanding..in the end, we are still ‘alone’…undeniably so.
    The more we dwell on the thought, the more life we give it.
    It will just pass as everything else will pass.

  368.  #368Liquid Light on March 20, 2015 at 1:33 pm

    I’m so excited! I have the day off. I worked both days last weekend so got to take the day off. Just relaxing. Yay!!!

    Azure, Labbit, Zia, Andrea, Gemini: so happy for you! Lots of exciting things happening on the blog now! Wow!

    Job is going well but still continues to be very intense and high pressure. Lots of aggressive deadlines, and when one passes, there’s another one on its heals. I’m hoping things settle down a bit after this coming week.

    My projects seem like they are going well. Sometimes I really feel like I’m “in the zone”. But then I wonder if its just an illusion since I’m most of the time heads down, bouncing from project to project and meeting to meeting. I don’t have a lot of feedback so maybe even though I feel like I’m doing a good job, its not really noticed or its not that exceptional. Just feeling like the work that I’m doing doesn’t have a lot of visibility. My manager is 1000 miles away and so has little sense for how crazy my days are and how hard I work.

    Then yesterday I had a meeting someone who just joined one of my crazy projects with an extremely aggressive (crazy) deadline next week. She is replacing someone who is leaving (don’t know if he got fired or not). And she proceeded to complain to me for half the time about how hard it is to be thrown into a project like this, and then the other half of the time, she criticized the work that we’ve done of the project so far. WE’ve been working under a really crazy tight timeline on this project, and I’ve ben working my tail off to understand the requirements, and work up designs ASAP.

    I felt like smacking her, and am dreading having to work with her on this project. You can tell pretty quickly – some people add value and some people are dead weight and get in the way. I strongly suspect she’s the latter. Great, just what I need, another challenge on an already really challenging project.

  369.  #369Kim on March 20, 2015 at 1:34 pm

    On that note, I believe in ‘making hay while the sun shines’.
    I have a boating invitation with boatman tomorrow, and MoM organized an outing for Sunday, all day kayaking a river I had wanted to go to.
    Thoroughly spoilt this weekend…and I am intent on making the best of it.
    Having a lot of male energy coming towards me…feels good. Spring is in the air, the weather is glorious, I had a very unexpected offer of some work come in today…all in all I am a happy bunny right now!

  370.  #370Femininewoman on March 20, 2015 at 2:23 pm

    Lucky bunny! 🙂

    I am having snow

  371.  #371Kim on March 20, 2015 at 5:04 pm

    Oh dear FW…this too shall pass… 😉

  372.  #372Beloved on March 20, 2015 at 6:22 pm

    I just finished reading Dr. Pat Allen’s “Getting to I Do” and am pondering the idea that whenever I agree to do something that doesn’t feel good for a man, I’m sending him the message that I love him more than I love myself.
    I see a hundred different ways I do this all day long.
    Just today, TG was frustrated that one of the roomies put away a dish dirty, and it needed to be cleaned before he could use it.
    He asked me – “Is it okay if I b!tch about this for a minute?”
    I asked him – “Do you want a response or need me to do or say anything?”
    He said no…so I said, ok. And he complained a bit.
    Which…didn’t feel very good. And, at the same time, his heart wasn’t really in it. I didn’t really believe him…I stayed quiet and focused on what I was doing and felt awkward.
    After a minute he said, “Well, I can’t really be too mad at her because she cooks for me and brings me food and does all kinds of stuff for me!”
    At which point we both laughed and I said, I think that’s her general strategy.
    For example she baked cookies to bring to her first day at work because her reasoning is, as long as she brings cookies it will make everyone happy and not get so aggravated with her for making mistakes. Which, seeing it on this end, I see really only makes him feel guilty and weird and doesn’t really keep him from feeling bad, just from being direct with her about it.
    I was noticing, how awkward I felt. How uncomfortable I felt, and how I felt I had sold myself out for saying “yes”. I was feeling guilty, because of how, a couple of weeks ago, when I was feeling so dreamy and blissful, I cut him off when he started complaining because I didn’t want to hear it and feel like his self-inflicted drama with his ex was bringing me down.
    I’m smiling and it feels kind of cool that he did ask me before he vented 🙂
    How…can I be even more true to myself?
    How, can I love myself *more* than I love “the man” or “the other person”, and feel ok with that?
    It feels scary.

  373.  #373Andrea on March 20, 2015 at 6:40 pm

    Oh my. I had a really good interview last night and just got called back this afternoon to schedule in a third interview.

    This is a position I know I will love. I’d be going to seminars, meeting new people, scheduling events, doing public screenings, going to homeshows, and different events doing marketing and pr for a health and wellness clinic. I love it!! I love the position description. I’m a people person. I excel at communications and public speaking. I love meeting new people and there would be so many opportunities for connecting with others who share my same passions.

    Here’s the “rub”. The pay is not very good. My thinking is.. “I can’t survive on what they are offering.”

    My heart pumping, thriving with excitement, feels… I will be sooooo happy in this position. I will attract wealth to me. (somehow??)

    I just feel it in my bones. It was amazing how this position opening just kind of fell in lap with my very first round of resumes that I sent out. How quickly everything is happening..

    It was amazing because I’ve had this notion that I should re-submit my application for national certification for massage, and renew my business license. But something just kept holding me back. One day last week I just finally decided… You know, I really don’t want to do that anymore. I don’t want to be a massage therapist anymore. I don’t want to be in the service industry anymore. I just don’t want that.

    I’d been holding on to it because it’s something I’m familiar with and it has “worked” for me in the past. But I don’t want the “past” anymore. I want now and I want brighter future.

    I finally just put it away. I finally just made up my mind to stop holding on to that which I don’t really want. Even if it seemed “smart” or convenient or like all the schooling and experience will now be for nothing. I just finally made up my mind to opt for overwhelming joy and passion…. how ever that would show up… and to just trust that I would be okay.

    And then, like magic, I sent out my resume for some local front desk positions in chiropractic clinics, and one of the managers emailed me and said, “After reading your resume I would like to offer you the chance a position that I feel you’d be more suited for.”

    And BaM!! last night I met the Doctor and all the staff, and now they’ve called me back for a third interview.

    It’s Wow!

  374.  #374Andrea on March 20, 2015 at 6:54 pm

    Beloved! My response is one of solidarity and “oh my” how timely.

    What pointed observation about your roomate bringing cookies… it does not make people less irritated, it just makes them less likely to be genuine and bring up their irritation.

    How many times a day do I “bring cookies” in my own way. Smile and make myself the butt of a joke so that everyone seems to be at ease around me. Talk loud, lean in, punch an arm, treat everyone like a “buddy” or pal so that no one feels the awkwardness of … maybe this woman is a viable as a romantic connection. How I pretend to be uninterested in younger men, or when I’m with my much prettier and slimmer best girl friend, how I pretend that I don’t even want male attention, and how all the men SHOULD be going after her, of course.. “I’m not even interested.”

  375.  #375Sophie on March 20, 2015 at 7:02 pm

    Thank you lovetodance, AB and Kim – the typos in my post were awful – it meant to say I feel respect for him for his boundaries and loyalty. It also meant to say my heart. Yes, lovetodance I believe in the astrology – endings and new beginnings. So much has changed in me internally over the last few months – positively. Negatively, this trip has got me all out of balance with my sleep and I have been (worryingly) self medicating (and recently, not just for sleep but to block out feelings too). He is not that important because I knew there was no future, I just needed someone to help me now (I am in a mess with not sleeping and hence really vulnerable and without a doctor or a therapist (or as you say someone to just laugh and cry with) I have become a bit dependent on taking the pills which mess my head up even more. I got a little bit close to him (I know, I know) and… it’s always painful when there’s another woman but mostly i feel cross with myself about that too because he told me before I kissed him and I should never have kissed him. One of these lessons will be the one that makes me learn – no more punishing myself like this…I do feel motion forward with that…I just wish I hadn’t had to feel (even) more pain to get there … but I know, we all do. I think i’m going to book myself into somewhere really posh and peaceful and quiet (with air con – it’s 38odd degrees every day and uncomfortable) and I want to write and read books and take no tablets AND SLEEP this weekend. There’s an NA/AA meeting I can go to on Sunday too, there’s about three of us addict/alcoholics (in recovery eh hum) on the island. It’s been years since I did a meeting but I do need to connect with them now. – Kim, you’re right. There always is another one and the next thing. I did have a date with a man the day before (a different one) and I felt cared for, he took me somewhere special and beautiful and it was nice to spend time with him – he’s gone now….we shall see if he gets back in touch – he’s from the UK. Anyway, even though it’ll be whacked on a credit card, I’m swaying towards this hotel idea persistently – I need drug free sleep so badly and a different environment should help me change my energies with that. Otherwise i’ll be in my head (its his b’day today), in my room, which I like, but will feel sad and i’m craving luxury, and I want to write but it’s too hot and if I stay here i’ll probably go to parties (where I do meet men, and women, not all bad and have fun) but this weekend, it’s probably not the best for me.

    Thank you for your kind words – i feel so bad i’m not commenting much for others – I am listening and learning and appreciating and rooting for you all but, as confessed, my head is not all that clear – hence not much engagement…

  376.  #376Andrea on March 20, 2015 at 7:26 pm

    ooooohhhhhh…… these are all so digging down deep to the core of things.

    I want to just show up in all my resplendent glory and allow others to make their own choices about how they will respond to my very authentic and relaxed self.

  377.  #377Beloved on March 20, 2015 at 7:39 pm

    Ohh…Andrea…I appreciate the solidarity…and..
    I see how I’m playing into this.
    By venting with me, he’s avoiding saying anything to either of the other roomies, who, for some reason, he avoids saying anything to when he doesn’t want something. Instead of telling RoomieN directly not to put the good knives in the dishwasher, he asked RoomieJ to do it, and when it kept happening, he just switched them out for a set of crappy knives.

    I kind of remember a similar dynamic with my former roomies, where one wanted to vent with me and never say anything directly to the others.

    What I feel I need to do, is establish a boundary.
    I can’t be available to TG OR RoomieJ for venting about each other or RoomieN (who we feel most impacted by most often, because…haha, she is NOT a pleaser personality, which I appreciate).

    TG claims he and N never cross paths, and that’s BS because they do, AND, he’s the freaking landlord/owner and he texts us stuff all of the time.

    Now that I’ve seen this, it will probably never come up again, lol. TG wasn’t feeling too great about venting with me, I could tell. He *knows* he’s avoiding, AND, he did ask my permission so I need to be prepared to say No if it comes up again.

    It feels…scary because that’s how I got excluded from the “clique” in my former roomie situation. I stopped being available for them to talk about each other to, and they circled the wagons and didn’t want live with me anymore.
    I feel it’s different this time for so many reasons…so…we’ll see.

    I feel happy and solid in myself thinking of school today.
    Our sub let everyone go super early today.
    I decided to hang around, to talk, just…had a ‘feeling’.
    Well, turns out, there were still more lights to hang, cable, focus, patch in the theater. So, since I stayed after, I got to do this with one other classmate and the sub and got a LOT more attention, got to ask the same stupid questions and make dumb mistakes ( :D) and run the cables the wrong way and fix them, then troubleshoot when the lights weren’t working.
    So, I got more experience and I felt good about myself and following my hunch.
    I don’t want to get too far away from lighting for this next production, and, from what I can tell, the assistant lighting director spot that is already taken is more of a “gopher” position than anything. So if I can get in as master electrician…it will be great. I will get to make a ton of mistakes on a set with fairly low stakes and get some good experience.
    I can do this.
    I got this.

  378.  #378Beloved on March 20, 2015 at 7:51 pm

    Argh, times like this I wish I could afford a coach, it would feel SO helpful…!!

  379.  #379Kim on March 21, 2015 at 4:33 am

    Beloved I like that book by Pat Allen although in parts dated, the principles are great.

  380.  #380Sophie on March 21, 2015 at 5:18 am

    Åndrea I feel so happy for you x fingers and everything crossed. I am now booked into the swankiest retreat hotel for a mental and physical detox – I feel soooooo grateful. I have air con and a duvet and a jacuzzi ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh – I am aiming for lots of drug free sleep, relaxation, alone time and an energy renewal – would love to find the productivity for work too – my own creative work if nothing else. I think I will with the air con – I have day bed and a chaise longue and two balconies, a pool and room service – all at significantly reduced rates. I am feeling soooooooo grateful and soooooo relieved – I know I’m worth it ladies 🙂 xxx

  381.  #381Lotus on March 21, 2015 at 5:20 am

    Indigo, FW, Victoria – thanks for settling my mind on the road cone situation.. I realise it’s small fry.

    This treat/ money thing is a strange one. It’s been nearly 3 months since my first date with Mr Am, I’ve yet to see it be a fwb thing. He’s just booked us flights to a surprise destination, and is buying us festival tickets for the Summer without asking for money. Why would a man go to the trouble of cooking for a woman and give her flowers if he doesn’t want any strings? Ok maybe he doesn’t know if he wants to marry me at this point, but he has been forthcoming about his romantic feelings for me and wanting me to meet his family and friends.

    He has let me buy a few drinks when I offer and I try to pay for them out of sight, but I don’t think it’s an indication he wants to be friends! Maybe it’s a subconscious thing for him, he doesn’t know how invested he wants to get with me as I’m navigating out of marriage. I’ve been asking my married friends about this who are all in their 30’s/40’s, and they’ve said that their men let them pay for things in dating, whether for equality or that they were generous with presents. We just don’t live in such a traditional world anymore in the UK! The consensus is pretty much the guy will pay for the first few dates to show that he is courting the woman, and relationships get exclusive pretty fast here.

    I guess if anything, I can just be reminded to think that this may not be my forever man, and just enjoy this for what it is at the moment, and actually it feels really good. I don’t mind offering and paying for a drink here and there, especially as we have such a going out and drinking culture. Maybe the guy who will absolutely bowl me over is the one who will refuse a lady buying him a drink!

  382.  #382Lotus on March 21, 2015 at 6:09 am

    Love to Dance
    Yes! It has been the Eclipse + Spring Equinox + New Moon = a triple whammy and a miracle. I haven’t felt the effects moment to moment, but in terms of endings and beginnings, it is very poignant to me since I am locking one door and opening another in terms of relationships. I definitely do feel I am entering a new field, a new chapter in my life.

    I also feel it with my father who is 93, that he is struggling to maintain his independence as he enters a new chapter, and I am constantly triggered by him, just out of fear that he will fall and being irked by his deafness, and ways around the home. So although I have gone back to the family home and have lived here for a year, I feel a sense of peace that I am doing the right thing by being separated from the H. I have felt more content being with my dad than with him, the fact that I enjoy being single, waking up in my own bed, having my own time to reassess what I really want in life. I still am struggling with work and finances, but I know this will come as I work through this year and whether I will go travelling or not.

    Going back to the New Moon, I found that my period came a week early to coincide with it. Did anyone else find this happening?

  383.  #383Victoria on March 21, 2015 at 6:10 am

    The only reason we are giving you our perspective on the money thing is because you are asking :-).
    There is no right way or wrong way, but when something is bugging us, it just is bugging us.
    I for one, do not have any issues with my man paying (because he pays, God bless him) but for example totally skipped Valentines day, and is not very good with Christmas gifts, and every once in a while I carry certain disappointment, and sometimes my disappointment can drag on for months… Best thing is of course to enjoy the ride and not overanalyse, but sometime I can’t help it.
    What happened with H?

  384.  #384Lotus on March 21, 2015 at 6:29 am

    Sophie 363 – I know those feelings of longing for a man, his devotion and touch so so well, blended with the confusion. It’s like a magic spell, and sometimes it was a blend of two men. I noticed as I missed my H, I craved another man’s touch, the curiosity of another lover. And as I let myself become closer to the select few, whether emotionally or physically, I opened myself up to amazing feelings of connection as well as intoxicating blends of chemistry or damn right no-no’s. I feel empowered to choose, and walk through the experience knowing that I will be ok, because I always have been.

    The push-pull effect of not fully getting a man 100% is frustrating at the very least. I found myself quite needy with the previous guy and I noticed that the pain from that was residual from lots of old stuff, whether from parental abandon or lack of validation from my H and his affair, and it was an opportunity for me to heal and grow from that.

    I haven’t felt so balanced now for such a long time, that sometimes I wonder if I’ll be caught off guard! I am enjoying feeling cooler, and enjoy separating myself from the guy now and just experience him coming to me, and we intertwine again, like a little dance. I don’t think I would’ve got to this place of balance if I didn’t go through the crazy yearning.

    Now I feel I have my balance, I can spin for a long time and keep my focus on one spot as I turn, and enjoy the dance with guy, swish my dress and smile, and I can spin off again and focus on myself again.

    When I look back, I don’t regret doing any of those things as it was part of my journey of recognising what feels good and is actually good for me, or what feels good in the moment but doesn’t serve my heart afterwards. After a while, I learned to recognise what cravings belonged to memories in my body, and what was part of my ego.

    I kept telling myself to learn to like the men who direct their energies to me, who listen to my heart and pay attention to my feelings. I have found that I can hold onto the picture of the relationship I want, and allow the man’s image to shift around. From that, I have managed to relax more and enjoy deeper and amazing experiences with men. For me, I needed to expand my experiences more..

  385.  #385Lotus on March 21, 2015 at 6:55 am

    Victoria 🙂
    I know I know, and thank you for responding to me. To be honest, I’ve been feeling a little triggered with your responses, as it would just keep swirling around in my head and then I’m questioning Mr AM’s motives. How crazy is that? Guess there’s that part of me who secretly wants a man’s devotion and woo-ing… a straight line, not a zig-zag!

    My H was the guy who would move mountains to be with me, and what did that leave me in the end.. He was the alpha man, took care of me, paid for things, supported me, but in the end he was too damaged to have the capacity to be the husband I deserve. So now I am trying to be more open-minded about different kinds of guys, the less traditional.. the English. I too am not a native speaker 😉

    I met the H last week, and it was harrowing 🙁
    We met in a nice cafe in a park, somewhere neutral I suggested, and he had tea and cake waiting for me. I decided I would pour the tea for us and he even attempted to feed me cake… I just took some cake off his fork as it was yummy!

    After much of him convincing and bartering, wanting to take me to my dream destination, supporting my travels, building a home, going through counselling to heal… I had to gently remind him that it’s too late, I want a fresh start. So many words were exchanged, and I just felt heartbroken for him and us. He was so broken and crying throughout, and I had to hold him together, there were moments of tenderness and closeness.. and this time I felt strong enough to not rescue him over my own heart. Tears well up now..

    He told me I’m the love of his life, that he’ll die without