When A Man “Opens” With Sex Talk…

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cutefrogThe Question:

“Rori, Don’t get me wrong… I love men… love what they are about and how their differences are so …. different…

…the question that came up with my girl friends and I is when a man  just starts chatting… and the meeting has not even taken place and he makes a casual reference to … now this has happened on two separate occasions recently with friends… sex…as in .. he has had no problems having his needs met when he needs to and all of the encounters were healthy adult consenting ones…and the other was a reference to the type of woman a guy was once with …    we all felt sick.

It felt somehow inappropriate to talk about another woman and sex with no trust or relating having developed…

I thought initially I was being uptight… I am always challenging myself…however if we are to listen to what our bodies say… sick says there is something off…  will Rori and the group be able to talk about these sorts of issues as they arise … there is no set answer… for any situation.. however there needs to be a method…Thanks, Lois

My Answer:

Lois – For me, there’s more to it than just a man making you feel “sick” by what he says.

How you react to something a man says or does is about YOU – not him.

Once you can see and feel and “get” that, clearly – everything gets so much clearer.

In other words – a man is perhaps just awkward and says stupid things.

Or he has an agenda…

Or he’s wounded…

Or …he’s unconscious, or mean, or not very smart…or just sweetly clueless…

…AND…None of this matters!

What matters here is:

If you feel nauseous when a man says something – you SHARE what you feel with him.

You SAY it.

This is all about saying…”I feel…I don’t want…”

“I feel nauseous…I know this is just communication going on, and yet don’t feel good hearing about sex from a man I hardly know….I don’t want to continue talking about this…”

Once you open up communication in a true, real, deep and scary way – ALL things become possible.

Frogs sometimes turn into princes, and sometimes princes show up as frogs!

And then, you get to make a choice about what feels best: “Shall I stay and continue talking, or shall I hang up the phone or turn around and leave the room?”

Love, Rori



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  1.  #1Linda on July 2, 2014 at 7:20 pm

    Ooohhh I get the feeling sick thing. I have felt that at different times my entire life. It gets my attention right away. I get all squirmy and unsettled, cant eat, concentrate.. just gotta fix it whatever “it” is that is causing it. Whether it is removing myself from it. Talking, or shutting down. I guarantee I dont ignore it and rationalized when I feel like that.

  2.  #2Millie on July 2, 2014 at 8:05 pm

    I feel like a bucket of distress today. This post triggers me too…My fear of always being seen as an object by men, never more. I really like what Rori says here- that how you feel is always about YOU, not him. This makes me think….so J had told me the other night that “I was more than welcome to crash here (at his place).” That did not make me feel good at all! “Crash.” That word….
    It made me feel like a hook-up, not a woman he is dating and pursuing. Suddenly, I started to see that maybe the fact that he has been showing up in such a strong dating role means nothing. Maybe what a man does means nothing? I know we are taught to listen to words, but that actions speak louder. At this moment I feel insecure of both. What if the only thing that holds any meaning is a ring on your finger? And even then…that’s a lot of meaning for a little finger to hold.
    I started to feel like things are over with J. He “sooned” me, which he’s never done before and didn’t respond to my text the other day. As sad as I feel, my sadness comes from feeling failure in myself, rather than feeling as though I screwed anything up. I did A LOT right with this guy. And when I say right, I mean, I had boundaries and listened to myself and spoke truthfully. Right now, I feel like he’s not the guy for me…..he may contact me, he may not, but my feelings for him just came to a screaching halt. No thanks.

    In other news, Mechanic is still around. I still have feelings for him. He ignites my fire, in a different way than J did. It’s enjoyable to feel how different men light me up…and at the same time water me down. He is really an inspiring person to me.

    I feel failure right now. Heavy, cloudy, teary, failure. I know I should be good to myself, but I feel lonely and unwanted. Blah……boo

  3.  #3Cynthia on July 2, 2014 at 8:30 pm

    3mths ago my husband up and walked out and never looked back. We lived together 5yrs then married for 17yrs. We were together 22yrs and not once seperated for even one day. We have 2kids. I have begged and pleaded over the 3mths to at least sit and talk and he just wont do it. As much as i am hurt over all this i still love the man more than ever. How can i get him to talk? He claimed he wanted divorce since the beginning, but has yet to hire lawyer and file. That is what keeps me hanging thinking maybe its not what he wants. Should I give up? I am so mentally, emotionally and physically exhausted. Please help me figure what I should do from here.

  4.  #4Olivia on July 2, 2014 at 9:15 pm

    I feel happy I knew what Rori was going to say to this one! And I feel positive – the frog becoming a prince is totally possible – you may be the first woman who has ever ‘called him out’ on saying something that he knows in his guy is innapropriate.

    My heart goes out to the Sirens whose love lives are not going so great right now…

    I’m about…let’s see one year and six months “Post Rori” (!) and my relationship with my man just gets better and better. When we hang out with other couples I generally feel our connection/vibe together is the strongest and it isn’t because of HIM it’s because of me and my Siren ways…

    He is always putting his arms around me in the kitchen after work. I just soak it up. Lately I have been telling him “you’re great” when we hug and he just puffs up with pride.

    Not that there aren’t bumps along the road! There’s been some conflict about surrounding me leaning back too much to the point where he was fearful he had to “do everything” in his words.

    But these tools just make me so damn confident in ME and that I’ll always be okay.

  5.  #5Olivia on July 2, 2014 at 9:18 pm

    Millie – you are not a failure! I am touched by your feelings I’ve been there too —

    You are working on yourself and searching for wisdom and that’s amazing and so much more than so many other people can say!

    Promise that you will do something delicious for yourself this 4th of July weekend to be your own “boy”….

  6.  #6Rori Raye on July 2, 2014 at 10:25 pm

    Cynthia – First, I’ve deleted your last name for your privacy – second…I have seen this before. Yes – you should “give up.” Because that is your ONLY good option. Chasing after him, begging him, calling him will push him further away. If you can – please, please hire one of my Certified Coaches…look for the Directory of Coaches in the right sidebar. You need some help in the way you speak, what you do around him – and in getting your life moving forward again as if he was never coming back. The point is – we have to get you feeling better as quickly as possible – for your kids, for your sanity.

    The client I had where this exact scenario happened did not get her husband back – but she got a MUCH better life within a year. She was able to see where the marriage had not served her, had not worked, and found much more happiness. I’m not saying this can’t be mended. But exhausting yourself and begging him to talk is the least helpful thing you can do, both for your marriage, and for yourself. Love, Rori

  7.  #7Indigo on July 2, 2014 at 11:38 pm


    Steady on. Firstly, I’m so sorry to say it and it is probably totally uncool of me to say it, but I just had a casual vibe about your J from the start. You did nothing wrong. What on earth have you failed at? Please don’t look at things in these terms – I say this because it’s something I had to learn, not to feel filled with shame and a sense of failure. But, that is just not helpful or remotely accurate.

    Another thing to bear in mind, yes when he used the word “crash” I would have had the same reaction as you. It sounds so “casual”, so dismissive almost. You and I are clear on that, but some guys are quite oblivious to how these words come across. I remember early on, D greeted me a couple of times on text with the greeting “Yo”. I just about died the first time. Anyway, once I calmly collected myself I told him that I prefer not to be greeted in that manner, it makes me feel like “one of the guys”. And he stopped. He was just being a boy, I don’t think he was trying to offend me, but I spoke up so that he knew.

    Chin up Millie. I think if you could see objectively all this attention you are getting you would not feel like a failure at all!


  8.  #8Ignis on July 3, 2014 at 2:41 am

    Ahhh, hey, this time it only took me two weeks to stop wanting a guy back, and not three months, two years and eternity, haha this feels like progress to me. I felt so guilty about not wanting to be friends, because I am a good person and I want everybody around to be happy. But it also felt bad, and so it is just choosing what serves me and what does not. So I said I do not look for friend but a relationship and this time he agreed. This feels even more like progress. (yes, yes, it also feels scary and sad, but so what!) I have learned something and now I do not need him to deliver the message anymore, now I can meet even better messenger. And they do get better each and every time when I look back. Yay, it feels so awesome not to have a man to hang on to!

  9.  #9Femininewoman on July 3, 2014 at 2:57 am

    Millie I suspect it is related to age where maybe neither of you are really ready for something serious. Maybe he just want to enjoy life. Have you looked at this?

  10.  #10Femininewoman on July 3, 2014 at 2:57 am

    Cynthia I really feel for you.

  11.  #11Indigo on July 3, 2014 at 3:43 am


    Have any of you ever experienced a man who is so masculine in certain ways that he has a great deal of trouble receiving from you? D will accept birthday gifts from me, for example, and he will let me cook… But he will never, ever let me pay for anything for example, which is fine. He also seems to see affection as only passing from him to me, he has always got to be the one to initiate kisses and cuddles and any form of affectionate touching, and sex usually. Which is mostly fine. But on occasion when I want to give him a hug or a kiss of my own accord he seems to have trouble accepting it – to be clear he revels in my affection when he has initiated, but when I initiate he seems to have trouble receiving it, or he feels he has disappointed me in some way.

    Anyone have any thoughts on how to handle this?

  12.  #12Ignis on July 3, 2014 at 4:26 am


    L was like that, and I learned early on that instead of initiating I was just sharing how I feel, like I feel so cudly now, and then we was there at once giving me a hug. guess that is called outgirling here 😛

  13.  #13Linda on July 3, 2014 at 5:37 am

    From Last Threads Posts..

    Ladies thank you so much for your encouragement.
    As is my pattern, I process and process. replay, rethink. I used to only do this with events and poured over the things that happened but now I sift through my feelings (now that I pay attention to them listen to my girl energy’s voice).

    I was feeling very piney yesterday. Some posts yesterday triggered it. My boy energy says you could have hung in there.. worked on this more.. you are not a quitter.. come on there is some great things with P and you. My answer to all that is YES you are right.

    My girl energy says…even though there things you found in P you have always hoped to find… you know that this in its totality a “not good for you “relationship. You have felt uneasy and on a tight rope lots of times. How many times have you spoken up shared your feelings to only be unheard and discounted. Remember how often you have felt disrespected and offened and controlled and no matter how you commuincate your feelings it just keeps happening. and you know you feel so discouraged and done. My answer to this is YES too.

    I got stuff like this bouncing around inside me all the time !

    ANyway… I feel differently this morning. More calm and content. I know deep down inside that this relationship did not fit and it was like I was choosing to wear shoes that fit terribly and wore blisters on my feet. I could not thrive within it and be totally me and just be.

  14.  #14Tam on July 3, 2014 at 6:00 am

    Wow Indigo, the affection thing. MrP was exactly the same way!! More extreme, once or twice I tried tokiss him and he would give me his cheek…it used to trigger me like crazy, in the end I just did nothing lol.
    They want to stay in control, I guess.
    Is D emotinally ‘available’? Do you feel like things are intomate in an emotional level, I think you said you do, right? Hm.

  15.  #15Tam on July 3, 2014 at 6:12 am

    I had a date with the wild child yesterday. He isn’t really that wild after all. I had a lovely time, but I am wondering, is this mancrack? There is a big spark, and he is very sweet, and almost a bit nervous. It’s very endearing.
    He topd me afterr our first date, when we kissed (just a little kiss), he couldn’t drive straight home and had to sit on the beach for a moment because he had butterflies in his stomach. Lmao. If you saw him, with his long hair and tattoos and stuff, well, I didn’t believe that came out of his mouth.
    He seems really into this, this was our second real date, third meeting, and I overheard him takking to his friend on the ohone while I was in the bathroom, saying what ‘we are doing’ on July 1st and if ‘we’ could meet up with them.
    I was quite surprised. He also already planned a trip with them and ‘us’ sometime in the fall or late summer, camping. I was not even asked..haha. I don’t like camping!!! Bugs!!
    I love this. We had a romantic walk on the beach and it was so nice.
    He is very respectful and sweet but I am unsure whether I can keep this out of the bedroom for much longer…lol. I would really like to, on an intellectual level, because I think itbis too soon. I am just unsure how to do this..a lot of attraction.
    I still don’t think this will go anywhere because he is unstable with work, and we are SO different on so many levels…but we are exactly the same age, 38, and he told me he was never married, no kids and no house because he wanted to experience life first..and now he has got it all out of his system (oh ok)…I guess he wants to settle down.
    Now, I love this because he wears his heart on his sleeve and is totally unlike the other guys I was dating, he seems all in from the first date. We had a few bumps to get to it, and it took two weeks of me blowing his crazy attempts off (10pm texts to ‘hang out’), but kind of glad he persisted.
    And now what? The challenge is to keep a clear head lol

  16.  #16Tam on July 3, 2014 at 6:14 am

    Sorry typos, ipad keyboard. Sigh

  17.  #17Femininewoman on July 3, 2014 at 6:19 am

    Hi Tam. If it were me, and he told me “he has got it all out of his system” I would take it that he is making it clear that the bedroom entering is up to me. I would really want to wait a very long time so he can show me if he rally has got it out of his system and if he really is ready to focus on respecting and cherishing me. I would likely look for ways and areas to test him on the respect level he has for me. Again that is just me….

  18.  #18Femininewoman on July 3, 2014 at 6:23 am

    Indigo have you ever considered timing? Is there a time of the day that he normally initiates this? I am wondering if when you initiate if it is based on your rhythm and not his. Some people like it early in the morning first thing while others might like it before they go to bed at night.

  19.  #19Tam on July 3, 2014 at 6:26 am

    FW, he was talking about marriage saying he didn’t get married because he wanted to wait until he had the experiences (we had talked about travelling, he is a surfer) out of the system….so that was the slant of the conversation. Not so much sexual.
    Although I totally am with you on the waiting…I think if I saw him as a long term prospect, I would probably tackle this differently, but as I see it as more of a man snack at this time, I feel mkre relaxed about the sex thing….I am also wary of the chemistry, as I haven’t felt that in a long time, and kind of wonder if it will just burn out.
    This is not a long term dating prospect for me, we are way too different. He already told me that he is looking for long term, or something like that, and he saw my face…lol. He knows he has his work cut out here. He would need to grow up one heck of a lot (work situation etc), before I would consider him as a long term prospect.
    It sounds horrible, but I can hardly feed myself, and I want a man who has his sh*t together. I could also get triggered by all these surfer chick ‘friends’ he has…and I am staying out of it all for as long as I can (no fb friends etc).
    I want an easy life! Lol

  20.  #20Indigo on July 3, 2014 at 6:26 am


    Yeah, I sometimes do that, “I feel like giving you a cuddle/kiss” and usually that works.

    Thanks 🙂

  21.  #21Femininewoman on July 3, 2014 at 6:27 am

    Linda I believe in energy. For some reason it seems that some people just bring out the worst in me. I have one person who with the best of my intentions we always seem to fight even when I am just expressing myself. Looking at the dynamic between us I can see clearly where she never really listens. Last time I tried to talk to her it turned into her ranting. I told her to let me know when she was finished so I could then speak. When she was done she told me she does not want to continue the discussion, does not want to hear anything from me. Went into her car and slammed her door.

  22.  #22Indigo on July 3, 2014 at 6:29 am


    He tries to be emotionally available. I don’t get the feeling it’s because he needs to be in control, I think it’s more that he likes to pre-empt my affection needs, and gets despondent when he doesn’t. Or that’s what he has said, at least.

    Your wild child man sounds yummy and exciting! I agree with FW… if your natural instinct is to go straight for the bedroom, try hold off a little longer…

  23.  #23Indigo on July 3, 2014 at 6:32 am


    Thanks for this insight. He likes to have a cuddle at night, before bed. In the morning it’s just a quick hug and a kiss and then he’s off to work, whereas I sometimes would love a bit of a cuddle in the morning. I have significantly adjusted to his rhythm and routine, and maybe I should continue to do that. Or maybe I should say “it would feel so good to have a hug right now” or something?

  24.  #24Tam on July 3, 2014 at 6:41 am

    Wow, Indigo, that is so intereesting about D. He is stressing himself out trying to pre-empt your needs and sees is as a failure when you initiate? Sounds like work…I like it free flowing myself.
    But like I said, had a similar experience…

  25.  #25Azure Blu on July 3, 2014 at 6:58 am

    Darling Siren…

    Ahhh!! I always LOVE hearing success stories using RR tools with a relationship you’re in….
    The relationship with YOU
    the relationship with your man…

  26.  #26Azure Blu on July 3, 2014 at 7:02 am

    I’m learning a lot reading about initiating cuddles, touching, kisses…
    I have struggled with what to do off and on…
    I used to be sooo pushy with giving kisses and affection…
    Now that I lean back and let the man initiate
    I am trying to understand how to make it work for me…
    These are great suggestions…
    When I start dating again i’ll try them.

  27.  #27Azure Blu on July 3, 2014 at 7:11 am

    I feel happy to hear you are feeling calm and more content today…

    I agree, this journey of staying away from P will be up and down emotionally for awhile…
    I enjoyed your analogy…
    ” this relationship did not fit and it was like I was choosing to wear shoes that fit terribly and wore blisters on my feet.”

  28.  #28Tam on July 3, 2014 at 7:19 am

    Regarding the cuddles and initiating, in the beginning stages of dating I absolutely always let the man initiate it, even if as the wild child, he is a bit shy about it. I never ever have the urge to lean forward, because I am also shy, and I found it helps ha!
    Though, I like the flow of having playful affection in. A longer term thing, and not worrying about who initiates what, I like an easy flow. If I look back, I would say the man, evdn in longer term relationships of mine, probably initiated 8o% of the time. But I feel better when I know I can just go and hug him when I feel like it, or plant a kiss here and there…to me it is part of a loving relationship. I don’t want to overthink this, I like it when it feels natural actually.

  29.  #29Indigo on July 3, 2014 at 7:29 am


    I love him enough that it doesn’t feel like work to me… it actually feels kinda good 🙂

  30.  #30Tam on July 3, 2014 at 7:49 am

    Glad to hear Indigo! 🙂
    That’s all that matters….

  31.  #31Femininewoman on July 3, 2014 at 7:51 am

    “trying to pre-empt your needs and sees is as a failure when you initiate” emmm How do I know that this thought is true.

    Indigo – “it would feel so good to have a hug right now” or something?

    Sorry if this is not what you want to hear but it feels kinda clingy and controlling to read “right now”. It is almost like suggesting he does not have a choice in the matter is what I am reading into here. I believe I would rather hear “I feel like hugging you” or something playful.

  32.  #32Femininewoman on July 3, 2014 at 7:53 am

    Something playful about how he smells or looks that has me feeling like hugging him or playing with him.

  33.  #33Linda on July 3, 2014 at 7:59 am

    Thanks Azure Blue … uncomfortable shoes are for the birds.. no matter how cool they look. lol

    I woke up feeling like something had shifted. I had gotten an email from him TUesday.. a forward from a minstry that he ascribes too with a sentiment he attached to it which may have been a sincere wish but it felt like a trite jab. ( Best wishes, I hope you find what makes you happy) The forward was about forgetting the wrongs that people do to us etc.

    The tone of it pushed a button in me and I was going to write him but this morning I just pressed delete saved draft. I am not going to invest the energy into it.

    FW… you are right.. some people trigger and have a predisposition toward orienting the discussion, relationship or life totally around them. What you described sounds exactly what I have bean dealt so many times by P. He seemed driven to dominate any conversation… say his piece and slam closed the door. Not my idea of a good time. I learned not to let it get me all stirred up and panic but it still was no fun .

    Thanks for you input.. it helps me so much.

  34.  #34Adriel on July 3, 2014 at 8:04 am

    I’ve worked in male-dominated places and have found that in the presence of women many men will bring up the same crude language or sex talk they use with just the guys to test the waters and see what the women will tolerate. If she doesn’t express her distaste he’ll run with it and get worse. If she does, he’ll clean it up and watch what he says around her. In one really foul workplace I and another woman were the two women who had class, and (surprise!) the men preferred hang with us and would do anything for us. The other, cruder women who would try to keep up with the men’s foul talk rather than disapprove of it were of course jealous of the attention we got from the men and couldn’t figure out why the men liked us better.

  35.  #35Millie on July 3, 2014 at 8:41 am

    Femininewoman- no, I disagree that age has anything to do with it. He told me he had been in love three times. I think if a man really wants a woman he will do what it takes to be with her. As far as living life and enjoying it goes…we talked about doing all these fun things together…but I guess now they aren’t going to happen. He showed up in a new way, treating me really well, telling me how much he likes me, making plans… I started to think oh this one is actually going to stick around. But I think he realized oh this girl actually likes me…and I don’t feel the same… So time to bail.

    For me, “serious” only means that a man is into me, more than sex, and sees a tomorrow, whether that is a date tomorrow, or a trip to the museum, I’m in his tomorrow and he wants me to be. I don’t get that feeling from J anymore.

  36.  #36Millie on July 3, 2014 at 8:43 am

    Thanks Olivia and indigo,

    I’m going out of town for the wknd so that will be fun!
    I just don’t want to be alone, with no dates, and that thought makes me feel extremely needy and I hate that. I realize I am someone that wants to be wanted. Which is pretty needy. Yuck.

  37.  #37Indigo on July 3, 2014 at 9:06 am

    Thanks for your feedback, FeminineWoman.

  38.  #38Indigo on July 3, 2014 at 9:07 am


    You ARE wanted. Can you see that? So things don’t always and forever turn out exactly as you want them to, doesn’t mean you aren’t loved and wanted.

  39.  #39Linda on July 3, 2014 at 11:14 am

    Millie @ 34 . I am fresh out of a relationship so I might be a bit sensitive/ jaded but….

    I heard from him that he was in love with me often…that he fell for me at first sight (which I ? but nonetheless that is what he said often). He even said he has never loved anyone like he loved me. (been married 3 times btw) and he believed we were supposed to be together.. that I was what he was looking for all his life.

    Yet… when it came down to it. He would not stop doing what drove the wedge between us. He did not take the initiative to heal his stuff. So men dont always do what it takes to be with you.

    He included me in his forever and all the rest. He wou

  40.  #40Millie on July 3, 2014 at 3:42 pm

    Linda-I think your comment got cut off.

    Indigo- I just don’t FEEL that right now. I feel rejected and a bit embarrassed.

    Oh I don’t think I mentioned this… Mechanic is a painter and he signing a new contract with a company that makes apparel and accessories. He asked me is I wanted to design anything and he’d pass it along! I thought that was pretty amazing!!!!

  41.  #41Ignis on July 3, 2014 at 3:44 pm

    hmn, i just noticed a pattern, that when i have little money left i start totally over function, like i feel I alone am not good enough, so I have to do something. and then I stop working out as well, don’t know why. That is what was the case when last two breakups happened. I do not know how to process it yet.

    and I was wondering Sirens, which tools do you need that feels more physical, cause I am not that much into visualizations?

  42.  #42Kyla on July 3, 2014 at 3:52 pm

    I feel achy all over. Moving truck coming tomorrow at lunchtime and Im almost finished. I feel confident we will be finished tonight but need to lie down for 20 mins and maybe feed myself before I do anything else.

    The conversation re initiating physical affection is so interesting. I dont like initiating, i feel best responding to an initiation or just giving an affectionate touch in passing rather than to get one back. The thing I initiate is opening up, sharing my feelings, letting my face and body express my feelings, soaking in the present moment and being my most real self.. That gives the people around you permission to be real with you too. If i need a hug i ask but usually i ask myself why i need a hug and what can I do for myself to satisfy the need in me. If i just feel like cuddling would feel good right now and he’s not in the mood then its no big deal and im not feeling lacking.

  43.  #43Kyla on July 3, 2014 at 4:47 pm

    Ignis, physically leaning my body back, taking steps backwards, leaning or sinking into a wall, chair or bed; making fists and relaxing my hands open, petting or cuddling myself, the cat or a pillow; singing, dancing, drawing, writing. Any tools in particular you are looking for?

  44.  #44Ignis on July 3, 2014 at 5:07 pm

    @Kyla Thanks, I always manage to forget some of them. I lost copies of all Roris programs so i have nothing to go back to.

  45.  #45Tereana on July 3, 2014 at 11:15 pm

    Lol this reminds me of the guy online the other day. Two men at once… Ha! Too much. Lol

    Mandy, I think it’s your birthday…HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!

    (Hope I got that right!)

  46.  #46Tereana on July 3, 2014 at 11:16 pm

    Sophie – response from the last thread : )

    Sophie- I feel concerned for you in your situation. But also I don’t. Because what I hear in your writing is a really STRONG woman who is actively taking steps to care for herself and to put the man out of her life and home who simply isn’t treating her in the way she needs to be treated. Go you!!

    Now, you may not even need this, but it was suggested to me a while back and I was very glad that I looked into it. And that’s CoDA – codependents anonymous. It’s like AA but for co-dependency. And even if you never go, I’ll just share one thing I think is relevant, which I took away from that. And that is the idea of “caretaking.” That’s where we get into the mode of taking care of the other person, whether physically or emotionally or even financially – or all three. And on one level it makes is feel like a “good person” for being so “selfless.” But the end result is, we feel like OUR needs aren’t being met (they aren’t). We feel depleted and resentful. And we might expect reciprocation or respect, or gratitude, even. But usually doesn’t happen. Does this sound like you? If so, it sounds like you are on your way toward NOT being that.

    But I just love your awareness. You are probably much stronger than you think. And you do know, on a deep level, that what you need and deserve is real love. Not this. Not danger. You are taking great steps.


  47.  #47Indigo on July 3, 2014 at 11:31 pm

    Kyla 41,

    Yes I also feel most comfortable just responding to him initiating affection most of the time… I don’t even think about it most of the time.

    What happened yesterday morning… well, on Wednesday night I had a horrid experience where someone had hacked my credit card details. No money was actually taken and I was able to stop my card, but the whole experience left me feeling vulnerable. We had dinner together and he was perfectly sweet, even giving me way more cash than what the groceries had actually come to, and we had a short little cuddle on the couch and he went to bed early.

    The next morning I guess I was still feeling a little vulnerable and when he gave me a kiss before heading off to work I felt like I wanted to give him a hug. He said he wanted to feel like when he gives me affection he wants it to mean something/wants it to be enough, and feels despondent if it isn’t.

    It wasn’t a big deal, but maybe a little script at a time like this? “I’m just a girl and I’m not saying what you’ve done isn’t enough, but a hug would feel so good”? or something? Anyone have any thoughts?

  48.  #48Sophie on July 4, 2014 at 12:21 am

    Indigo – it seems in that moment you’d identified that you wanted a hug cos you were still feeling vulnerable about the cards? and you wanted to feel -? his connection? support? just the strength of another person? Would you be able to script that? Then it would be about your feelings in the moment?

    And ask him what he thinks…?

    Tereana – thank you for your lovely comments. I hope I am that strong – It felt motivating to hear your thoughts – maybe I am…and thank you for your Coda comments – I’ve been thinking about that myself a lot recently cos this has as, you rightly said, transpired into a ‘caregiving’ dynamic where he fully expects it from me and I feel ‘responsible’ and guilt when I withdraw that. I did go to a meeting once a few years ago but didn’t take to it cos I couldn’t get the rules – I can’t remember what is was now but things like not offering to make someone a cup of tea when you’re at the urn ha x I have a lot of Melody Beattie literature though I could dig it out x Right now – I can see it. I am keeping my line of these are my problems – these are yours and handing them back to him. I want to write some more … have to dash to work … back soon xxx

  49.  #49Veronica on July 4, 2014 at 12:25 am


  50.  #50Veronica on July 4, 2014 at 1:14 am

    Indigo – I’m sorry that happened to you.

    D is using feeling messages? I felt good reading that.

  51.  #51Sophie on July 4, 2014 at 3:50 am

    Ignis – I feel asleep last night to the leaning back tool – I know you were asking for physical examples and mine was a visualisation but it felt good! I put all the different areas of my life where I have been overfunctioning in front of me and I just lent back – work, clients, creditors, my home, – anything that was worrying me I just opened my heart and lent back – I realise I’ve been overfunctioning in all of it (at least with energy – worrying and trying to sort things out). Leaning back last night felt really nice, just letting it all go….I found my soft, relaxed feeling place and it felt liquid

    (((Millie))) – I hope you have a lovely weekend away

    Thanks Veronica (((Veronica)))

  52.  #52Tam on July 4, 2014 at 5:20 am

    Going to spend 4th July with the wild child and his friends. I feel nervous..it’s going to be a crowd and I am not so good with lots of people I don’t know….also a bit red-necky lol. That’s ok. He wants to take me out for lunch first and watch the soccer with me (I am a big fan lol)…he was super excited about all this yesterday and I honestly feel a bit of dread and a bit of inadequacy here. They are getting paddleboards and want to take them into the ocean, and I am a wimp. I love boating and stuff but not good in the deep wavy with a board only lol. He’ like ‘ah you’ll be fine’ and all these people are surfers and born by the water. I am just scared and I swim like an 80 year old lady…I feel like I am going to make the laughing stock of all these cool surfer dudes and chicks. Ugh.

  53.  #53Tam on July 4, 2014 at 5:24 am

    Let me say something controversial here Indigo, please don’t hate me lol, but a speech for a hug?
    I mean, that is such a basic human need, that on occasion strangers will hug you at parties etc. I can’t help but think it would make me feel really bummed if I had to make a speech to get a hug when I wanted it.
    Honestly, when I was with MrP, everything like that was a big deal too. And I just can’t imagine ever going back to that. I guess the rest of it must be so good that it makes it up for you, but just saying I never met another man who would even think about giving me a hug if I said I needed one.
    MrP was like that, I was constantly on eggshells trying not to upset him and taking him as he was and keeping the peace – eggshells. Excusing his quirks, even if they hurt me. I would never go back there again….

  54.  #54Tam on July 4, 2014 at 5:28 am

    It would feel almost a little cruel. Imagine someone came to you saying ‘I need a hug’, who would turn them away especially if they love a person. Hm. Is it passive aggressive, self centered or just cruel, under the disguise of saying ‘oh I am bummed that my affection isn’t enough for you’. I mean, it’s just a bloody hug.
    Ok, I am triggered I guess, but I am so intolerant of that kind of thing now, guess almost three years of it had me cured.

  55.  #55Femininewoman on July 4, 2014 at 6:06 am

    There are times when my daughter comes wanting to hug or kiss me and I just don’t feel in the mood so I tell her exactly that. I don’t feel like it. She has grown to know me enough to understand and just say okay. She will even come later to ask if she can get one now.

  56.  #56Femininewoman on July 4, 2014 at 6:07 am

    Boy am I missing Andrea!!

  57.  #57Azure Blu on July 4, 2014 at 6:55 am

    Andera… where are you… we miss you!!!

    Oh beautiful, gentle, seriously HOT, Sirens Happy 4th of July!!!

  58.  #58Azure Blu on July 4, 2014 at 7:00 am

    I LOVE Melodie Beatii!!!
    She was my gardian angel when i was in my 30s (off and on since) recovering from addiction and codependancy!!!
    I read her stuff on a daily, hourly basis…

    I LOVE this “I put all the different areas of my life where I have been overfunctioning in front of me and I just lent back”
    I’m going to try this tool!!!

  59.  #59Tereana on July 4, 2014 at 8:05 am

    So I noticed something interesting last night. It was like a social experiment, sort of. And I think it’s kind of applicable here.

    I went to see fireworks last night with a group of people if never met. We all had something in common, but didn’t all know each other. Like a meet-up sort of.

    And I noticed throughout the night, that where I moved, people would follow. It wasn’t all at once. But for example, at one point I left “the group” and went to sit on the blanket by myself (with the snacks. Lol). Slowly, one by one, others sat down on the blanket, too. Pretty soon “the group” was all around me.

    This reminded me of what I used to do when I was younger, like 14 or 15. I was tired of feeling like I had to and “insert” myself into groups and not feeling like I belonged or was accepted. Instead, I decided that I would sit alone or stand alone. And if people came to me, that was cool. If not, that was cool, too. I found, through doing that, I was automatically “accepted.” People wanted to be around me, and it felt good.

    That’s how I felt last night. I felt this subtle magnetism of just being there. Not “trying” to get in. But being where it felt good and letting others come to me.

    So I think this is a lot like leaning back in dating. When we try so hard to get “in” with a guy, it feels weird and like we are working so hard, and we can never really be sure if he “accepts” us. But if we go where we want and just “be” there, he can find us, and then he is the one hoping that we accept him into our lives. And it’s us just paying attention to what feels good. Ah…..

    Happy Independence Day, Sirens!! ✨

  60.  #60Kyla on July 4, 2014 at 8:17 am

    Aww Indigo I’m sorry that happened to you and that scenario the next morning is exactly where I would use sharing my feelings to create more intimacy. You wanted comfort from something that was bothering you and your trust in his ability to take care of you is a gift, it wasn’t that his affection is inadequate or that you were lacking his attention. I think thats were feeling messages have the most power for me, communicating my deepest feelings so we can connect in a deeper way.
    “I am feeling shaky/insecure/vulnerable about what happened, I feel knotted up in my tummy and a hug would feel so reassuring/soothing/comforting. Will you hold me for a moment? Thank you, I love you. I feel safe here.”

    And here’s a big hug from me ((((((((Indigo))))))))

  61.  #61luzydel on July 4, 2014 at 9:28 am

    I used to stay quiet when a man I never met in person started crossing the line about sex; or I just disconnected the conversation. Some men are testing to see how easy they can get what they want without effort and some are just A*holes; Now I just say it; it feels uncomfortable talking about my sex like to a total stranger and I would like to stop talking about it. Most of them stay frogs, but it is ok why being afraid of loosing something you don’t really have by speaking the truth?

  62.  #62Azure Blu on July 4, 2014 at 10:51 am

    Have a great time at the beach with wild boy!!! :~0

    I’m imagining you’re using your FM about
    “Feeling so happy about being invited…
    spending time with him!!
    “feeling inadiquate and embarrassed around water sports and everyone else being soo good at it…”

  63.  #63Azure Blu on July 4, 2014 at 10:53 am

    I know you must feel sooo vulnerable!!
    I’m sooo glad no one used them!!

  64.  #64Azure Blu on July 4, 2014 at 10:55 am

    Happy moving day!!! I hope your achyness has gone away!!
    I hope everything goes smoothly,,,
    Are you and Ninja and the children leaving and driving out there today?

  65.  #65Kyla on July 4, 2014 at 11:10 am

    Hey Azure thank you! I have 2 sexy men loading up the truck right now 🙂 We are taking the 5 kids and the cat in the car, truck and trailer on a road trip across Canada for the next week to get there but not leaving until Monday. I’m feeling so excited as I always wanted to do this road trip! Staying with family for the weekend to say all our goodbyes and having a going away party tomorrow night 😀 My daughters friends are all hanging out here flirting with the movers and crying and hugging and taking pictures.. oh to be 13!!!

  66.  #66Indigo on July 4, 2014 at 11:18 am

    Veronica 49,

    Thank you 🙂 D using feeling messages is a recent thing – feels good to me too 🙂

  67.  #67Indigo on July 4, 2014 at 11:31 am


    Thank you for your comment, and it’s not controversial at all.

    It’s one of the reasons I hesitate to share here, because this kind of thing can so easily look bad to others taken out of context.

    D is not unaffectionate. He is actually meticulous about showing me affection – a kiss and a hug as soon as he gets home/I arrive, a kiss and a hug in the morning, a long kiss and cuddle when he says goodnight, making sure to cuddle and touch me when we are watching a movie… I could go on and on. He’s very sensitive (like me) and can be cyclical though, like FW says. Sometimes he’s just off, and sometimes that coincides with when I’m feeling for affection. Most of the time when I ask for a hug he gives it.

    I won’t attempt to explain it too much because it will sound trite and explainy, but this relationship gives me such contentment and inner peace that small things like this are barely a problem. Yes, the good overwhelms things like this by leaps and bounds.

    I know why you left MrP and I understand it, but I just don’t feel that same way. x

  68.  #68Azure Blu on July 4, 2014 at 11:33 am

    Ahhh… yes… a road trip across the US is on my bucket list!!! I would have LOVED to have gone with my kids..
    – Canada will be amazing… Enjoy

    I can feel all the love and well wishes from your friends and family..

  69.  #69Indigo on July 4, 2014 at 11:34 am

    FW 55,

    Yes I know some people are like that. Usually if I “check later” with D like your daughter does, it’s all fine.

  70.  #70Indigo on July 4, 2014 at 11:35 am


    Thank you so much for the big hug, that was so sweet!

    I LOVE your feeling message and will copy and paste it to try it next time.


  71.  #71Indigo on July 4, 2014 at 11:37 am

    Azure Blu 63,

    Thank you so much… Luckily I have this thing through my bank that certain transactions need you to enter a once-off code which gets sent to your phone… I’m very glad too because it was a high amount 🙁

    thanks for the hugs x

  72.  #72Azure Blu on July 4, 2014 at 11:39 am

    Tereana #59
    I enjoyed what you shared here…
    ” I felt this subtle magnetism of just being there. Not “trying” to get in. But being where it felt good and letting others come to me. ”
    Makes all kinds of RR, siren since!!

  73.  #73Indigo on July 4, 2014 at 11:39 am

    Sophie 47,

    I think I was feeling vulnerable about the card, but also I was just feeling overflowing with love? affection? Maybe I can script that…

    Love to you

  74.  #74Azure Blu on July 4, 2014 at 11:43 am

    I appreciate your vulnerability and trust in us…
    I like reading Your sweet, gentle sharing of your relationship with D here.
    I feel very curious and blessed to have you share how you and D work and enjoy your loving relationship…
    Thank you for sharing you…

  75.  #75Labbit on July 4, 2014 at 12:53 pm

    What a day today has been. One of my CDs, who started off as purely physical release but had recently grown into a CD at his request, had planned a holiday weekend trip for us. He has been texting me such sweet things, calling to say goodnight or good morning (he works overnights, ah doctors). I saw him earlier this week on a fantastic date.

    Then today when our trip was supposed to begin he texts me to break things off. He said that he didn’t feel ready to invest in a full-on relationship, that he was sorry and that he hoped I understood. This blindsided me.

    Here’s the weird thing. (The good thing…?) I felt sad. Very sad. Yet even as I started crying, because I did feel a strong connection with him and he was many of the things I want my man to be, I also felt…happy…? Happy that he respected me enough to treat me well, kindly as he ended things. Happy that he shared his feelings rather than taking me on a trip he didn’t want to go on. Happy for all the healing he’s helped me with, without even knowing it — thought I did thank him for it in our good-bye texts.

    Happy that I feel enough love for myself that this breakup, which would have sent me into a months-long downward spiral in the past, has me sad but OK. There are other amazing men on my radar. I don’t feel angry. I don’t feel victimized. I do feel sad. I do feel pangs of I’m-not-good-enough and such. But they are so weak compared to the past. I feel a need to treat myself extra well this weekend. After a nice big, sushi lunch I plan on taking a bubble bath and then seeing fireworks with friends tonight. For the first time, I am letting myself feel. My mind is mostly quiet…so new to me. I feel like celebrating all the good times I had with this CD, because he was great! I cry when I want to cry since there’ll be no more fun with him. I’ve even laughed a few times. I don’t feel lonely. I don’t feel unloved. And I feel like if I was good enough to attract this handsome, smart, well-off, affectionate man, well then I can probably attract a guy 10 times as good as him!

    I’m very grateful in this moment for Rori, Dominique and all you lovely Sirens, for the tools and stories I’ve learned so far. I feel so much love in my heart right now even with the sadness. It feels beautiful…

  76.  #76Liquid Light on July 4, 2014 at 1:30 pm

    Labbit, that is so strange that he would do a 180 like that, go from hot to cold overnight. Wow! So you didn’t see it coming at all? That’s a bit unnerving.

    It sounds like you are handling it really well though. I think that would throw anyone for a loop so I am so impressed with your reaction. So awesome! Hang in there and you go girl!

  77.  #77Liquid Light on July 4, 2014 at 1:31 pm

    Kyla, have a safe and fun cross-country move! It all sounds so exciting!!! So happy for you!!!!

  78.  #78Kyla on July 4, 2014 at 1:59 pm

    Thanks Liquid Light! Hope your move goes smoothly too 🙂

    I’m loving all the happy changes going on around me. Movers finally left and I took all the girls out for food and a little last minute shopping. Leaving for my parents now. Love and kisses to all of you beautiful ladies on this fantastic summer Friday and to the sirens state side, Happy Independence Day! xoxoxo

  79.  #79Kyla on July 4, 2014 at 1:59 pm

    Thanks Liquid Light! Hope your move goes smoothly too 🙂

    I’m loving all the happy changes going on around me. Movers finally left and I took all the girls out for food and a little last minute shopping. Leaving for my parents now. Love and kisses to all of you beautiful ladies on this fantastic summer Friday and to the sirens state side, Happy Independence Day! xoxoxo

  80.  #80April Rose on July 4, 2014 at 2:40 pm

    Just been listening to session 6 of Rori’s Love Forever program.
    She mentioned oxytocin and its effects.

    My understanding is that the tingles and excitements we experience over a man are the effect of oxytocin. In a way (and these are my own words) it is like we are in love with our desire for him.

  81.  #81Dominique on July 4, 2014 at 2:43 pm

    Labbit – 76 – Sending you much love. <3


  82.  #82April Rose on July 4, 2014 at 2:44 pm

    It is different to the feeling we experience when receiving the love of a man who loves us more than we love him.

  83.  #83April Rose on July 4, 2014 at 2:47 pm

    That is why we circular date and go on dates with lots of men.
    To experience the difference.

    And to open ourselves to being deeply loved.
    Without fireworks and fizzing sensations.

    To experience the much deeper intimacy that is possible when a man aores us.

  84.  #84April Rose on July 4, 2014 at 2:48 pm

    when a man adores us.

  85.  #85Labbit on July 4, 2014 at 2:54 pm

    Liquid Light 77 – Thank you. No, I didn’t see it coming at all. We hadn’t been together too long. Just a few months. It didn’t feel entirely real yet, this trip would have made it more real. I believe what he says, that he’s not ready for a full relationship. I know I want a relationship and a man who wants to give me that, so that’s all I need to know. Sadness to lose this man…and on to the next one.

    Dominique 83 – thank you.

  86.  #86sequoia on July 4, 2014 at 3:31 pm

    Tereana thank you for sharing your experience of leaning back in a group and making the connection to leaning back with a man. YEs It is about being authentic and not caring what others might think or doing things to please and manipulate others.
    I can not remind myself often enough about this.

    I am becoming more open to men again and today I met a really nice one, who I have seen and smiled at a few times before. I was so smitten by him and felt myself smiling the whole time that I forgot to speak in feeling messages. After we flirted for some time he said we have to meet again soon and I agreed very happily. He had written me his number down and instead of saying that I feel uncomfortable calling a man first I offered him my number as well. Lets see if he contacts me as i won’t contact him. It was somehow an intense encounter and he kissed me good by, taking my face into his hands and kissing my cheeks….I felt very surprised but it felt good. And I still have to smile when I think of him.

  87.  #87sequoia on July 4, 2014 at 3:35 pm

    I feel slightly insecure that he’ll contact me so as he said that I can contact him and he said it twice or so…and it felt like he was stressing that, well we’ll see.

  88.  #88Millie on July 4, 2014 at 5:19 pm

    Labbit I enjoyed reading your story!

    I miss Andrea too!

    Hope you ladies are having a great fourth!

    I’m sitting by the pool looking hot and sipping whiskey…thinking of how serious I have been taking everything, how honest and true I’ve been trying to be… I know this goes against Rori… But I want to try being someone I’ve never been before…a game player. What if I never took a man seriously until he proved he tooke seriously? What if I was the one with a yo yo…giving a little then pulling back… I think I give too much of my feelings up front. What if I slowed everything down even more… And just the act of pursuing me wasn’t even enough…. It shouldn’t be.

  89.  #89Tereana on July 4, 2014 at 7:19 pm

    AB #72 – thanks! I’m glad you “get it.” :

    And you, too, sequoia!

    I think the point is, it works all the time. It’s working all the time. We don’t have to “try” to be magnetic. Like Rori says, we just are. It’s part of being us…which is cool : ) and it was cool to literally see it in action. Wow. And I felt really good and relaxed, too. Just being myself :- )

  90.  #90Indigo on July 4, 2014 at 11:45 pm

    Labbit 76,

    I think this truly shows how much you’ve healed… when you can let a man go whose shown you that he doesn’t want to be with you, and not make it about you… but just feel the sadness and turn your face to the next adventure, your heart full of love.

    Beautiful x

  91.  #91Indigo on July 4, 2014 at 11:47 pm


    I am really, really jealous of your 2 day retreat without phones, internet etc. I feel like that would do me the world of good!

  92.  #92Labbit on July 5, 2014 at 5:26 am

    Millie 90 – thank you! I felt relieved having a place here to share. My friends are supportive but don’t quite understand how dating is right now, except of course my fellow single friends.

    I would be careful about where your mind is going. Remember that a man’s heart opens via your heart being open. You lead the way for the emotions in the relationship. You have it exactly right that a man should always consider you high value! And it is a dance of sorts, right? One move forward, one move to the side, a beautiful flow of masculine and feminine. I would just be wary of using your mind to pull back, or hold back. If you are in your mind, he’ll be stuck in his head and then he won’t be able to access your heart or his and the relationship won’t go anywhere. Am I making sense?

    Indigo 92 — yes, yes! I feel good reading your words this morning. Last night I felt like I was in slow motion compared to everyone else, trying not to be in my head too much and then excusing myself at points to sink into my feelings. I feel achy this morning. Love still fills my heart.

    MarikaBerg 94 — Yay! I am so happy for you, feeling good and sounding good too. Hormones affect my moods. Not wildly, but I do get more sentimental an emotional around that time of the month.

  93.  #93Indigo on July 5, 2014 at 5:43 am


    Yes, hormones affect me… a day or two before my period I am far more likely to be upset by something, to feel more sensitive, a little more at the mercy of my emotions. Tiredness, illness, hunger and especially being “people’d out” plays a role here too. It’s always helpful to be aware of what state your body is in as it’s closely aligned to how you feel emotionally as well.

  94.  #94Azure Blu on July 5, 2014 at 7:19 am

    Labbitt #76
    Huggs and kisses…
    that is quite a turn around with your CD…
    It feels very good to see all your Sireness
    Shining through!!!

    YOU loving YOU!!
    It feels to me like, even though this man had soooo many qualities you are looking for…
    YOU had never put him on a pedestal Above you…
    Ahhhh… that feels soooo strong on the inside!!!
    Yay you…

  95.  #95Azure Blu on July 5, 2014 at 7:21 am

    MarikaB #97
    You are a Rock n’ Roll Siren!!!
    Wow… Sooo VeRY Lovely

  96.  #96Azure Blu on July 5, 2014 at 7:30 am

    Millie #90
    I’m thinkin’ this new attitude is Smokin’ hot!!!

    It really doesn’t sound like game playing to me
    or against Rori’s tools…

  97.  #97April Rose on July 5, 2014 at 8:08 am

    He is back, after three weeks away.

    I was a bundle of anxiety and self-triggered pain before he got here!

    Then I got centred. Rori’s ‘tree’ helped, as did imagining my (tree) roots reaching deep into the Earth, drawing up nutrients. [This excercise is best done standing on grass or sand, with bare feet].

    Getting centred, I could see my feelings and hear my thoughts. The ‘me’ in the centre was neutral, and a good-feeling place to hold my awareness.

    I can now answer Indigo’s question about what keeps me in the ‘relationship’. (There is very little relationship, so the question is what keeps me around?)


    Simple as that! I feel delighted to be recognising the flavour of this chemical in my body, and its effects on my emotions.

    I am sticking around for the effect of a chemical that MY body produces! Wheee. Ha ha ha. Who would have thought??!!!

    I feel silly giddy and happy with my realisation.

    [Go on, I bet there are those of you who saw/deduced this about me months or even years ago. Blessings and love to you, for your patience, and for allowing me to come to this realisation myself. I feel empowered].

  98.  #98April Rose on July 5, 2014 at 8:38 am

    [ evil ] Hi Rori, I transcribed this from the Love Forever recordings (session 6) and I’m requesting your permission to post it on the blog, as it is so valuable and so key for many of us right now.

    Rori says

    “For some of us, the feeling of loving and longing for a man is so powerfully amazing and fantastic, that we don’t even care if he loves us.
    As long as he’s sitting there, we don’t care. Because it’s all coming out of our chest, it’s all coming out of our body. And we’re willing to put up with the pain of whatever he dishes out to us, for us to have the experience of loving HIM.

    If this is your experience in life, and this is your model, I’m here to tell you that is not the way to go.

    The way to go, is to be with a man who loves you more than you love him.

    Okay, so it sounds boring and unexciting. But that’s not the case.
    When a man loves you more than you love him, you relax. Finally.
    You’ve arrived. You can allow yourself to appreciate his love. You can allow yourself to be loved by him.
    And when you allow that, you start to open up.

    And most of us haven’t been able to deal with that, because being loved brings up pain, right?
    It doesn’t matter what your pain is or what your history is, nearly every woman I have talked to has been either physically or emotionally abused, or told her whole life that she was no good/not worthy unless she did such and such. We’re all suffering under the weight of this.”

  99.  #99emma on July 5, 2014 at 9:12 am

    Cynthia, oh I am in the same position. We are separating in August the 15th. I am still very in love with my husband, but the respect and romance toward me from him, are gone. He is just not into me, at all. I do wish you and me, the best ahead. Love to you!

  100.  #100Linda on July 5, 2014 at 9:54 am

    I am happy to have the long week end to regroup my brain and body and soul.

    I have felt a myriad of emotions since I told P I did not want to see him anymore. I have had several moments this week where I wished that I had not made that call last Monday. There are lots of others I feel accepting of the fact that I did the right thing. If I had to use one word to describe how I feel right now it would be “deflated”. Whether it is from feeling like I gave up or no matter what was said or done…things did not shift and work out.

    I read some of the great feeling messages you all share and I think.. wow why did I not think of that, maybe that would have made a difference. -or- I feel clueless and a failure on how to inspire a man to better behavior when I read what some of you have been able to .

    I do feel that our relationship was sacrificed at his alter of ideals and expectations. I fully see first hand how important it is to not bring expectations into a relationship and how wise the counsel is about that. It really feels bad to be on the receiving in of this and it really does kill the desire to be involved with someone like that. It feels like I had taken the bait to a trap and did not realize it until I was experiencing the consequences. So a question like.. what are your plans this weekend was really a test to see if he was going to hear what he wanted. There was no freedom to be me or spend time doing anything that did not involve him without imposing some sort of negative throwback from it. Feeling like I was tied to the whipping post every couple of weeks and being made “wrong” or “scolded” regularly is nothing I can commit to living with no matter how wonderful the good things are.

    I have been thinking about drama. I often see

  101.  #101Hana Gan on July 5, 2014 at 10:34 am

    Hello all!

  102.  #102Hana Gan on July 5, 2014 at 10:51 am

    My best friend who I thought I wanted more from is still my best friend. A half a year ago I felt so many weird conflicting feelings that made our friendship so confusing for me. But I don’t have and haven’t had such a close relationship with any other man like I do with him, let’s call him Harry. And my kids and his kids are super close to each other too. He’s now dating again which is giving him a lot of confidence, and I am dating a few men, one which really made me feel icky the last few weeks. I didn’t listen to my inner voice that told me not to see the guy again after first meeting him, but my girlfriend encouraged me to see him again. He was too anxious, too controlling, too much of negativity. But he was also very good to me and it was hard for me to say Goodbye. Which must have been a lesson to me. Reminded me of my abusive ex husband.

    So, its over with this guy, and harry and I are still as close as ever, which makes me realize how important it is to be in this relationship with him. I love not having the romantic part to confuse me. And harry is also not ready for the kind of real relationship I would like to have but do not feel ready for yet.

    There is another man that I met 2 weeks ago, it is very hot and comfortable, the sex is amazing, I just feel a little guilty because I had sex on the first date. So far he treats me with respect, and he always chats with me. We have our second date tomorrow, I don’t know why I have second thoughts about seeing him. It’s not that I don’t want to, I feel a bit afraid that I just want to enjoy him for the intimacy as he is a wonderful lover… I am unsure of myself, but cannot pin point what it is that I’m unsure of?


  103.  #103Indigo on July 5, 2014 at 10:56 am


    Please don’t beat yourself up. There’s no right and wrong, and there’s no coulda. shoulda, woulda. We make our decisions based on what is right for us in the moment, and based on what we can cope with… and you could not cope with P. You had reached your limit. And so your decision was the perfect one for you.

    I know I have often beaten myself up, thinking “if only I’d used this feeling message, or if only I had done this or not done that”… but then I wouldn’t have been me, in the unique place that I am on my journey.

    If you feel that ending things with P was the right thing, then it was the right thing for *you*.


  104.  #104Linda on July 5, 2014 at 12:10 pm

    Indigo. I read your posts and about you and D and find myself wishing I could have done something. You are right though I did make the right decision for me. Even though it means I have to give up the things I enjoyed with him.

    I will have to carry the love that I have for him in my heart as I go my way. I am going to put him on the back of my horse and ride on.

  105.  #105Linda on July 5, 2014 at 12:16 pm

    MarikBerg. you are right. He is not the right guy.. almost but not him.

  106.  #106Linda on July 5, 2014 at 12:49 pm

    On my earlier post I was going to post a bit about drama and my neighbor came over and invited me to lunch with her and her husband. They are in their 70’s and such nice people.

    She asked me if I was still seeing my guy friend when we were eating. I told her no and a brief snippet about why. She said..said well red flags are red for a reason…you will know when it you meet the “right person” You are so young you have plenty of time. I had to chuckle to myself . Here I was thinking I was running out of time and the odds are stacking up against me because I am 55. But… from her perspective it is all different. (I am 20 years her junior).

    To finish my thought on drama.. P said he was tired of drama in his life. Funny I was thinking the same thing. Funny thing though… I really had none in my life until he entered into the picture. hmmm Makes me remember something P’s brother said to me at their mothers memorial service last fall. His words to me exactly were ” I know that you and my brother are having some difficulties and that I know that P is a hard to get along with… but he’s a good man, give him a chance”.

    I did.

  107.  #107Indigo on July 5, 2014 at 12:52 pm


    I think that is wonderful. Whenever I regret someone that I think I might have given another chance to, I remember what Dominique says, “Can you love him and accept him just the way that he is, even if nothing ever changed?” And the truth is, for every guy I have let go, the real, deep down answer is no. With D, I had to really, really sit with that question, look at it from every angle within myself for a very long time, before finally coming to the conclusion that the answer was yes. And when I finally knew that the answer was yes, I had no doubts.

    Maybe considering the answer to this question will bring you some peace. x

  108.  #108Azure Blu on July 5, 2014 at 1:04 pm

    Rori says:
    “so what if I love you, so what if you love me, I’m not getting what I want from you and I can’t change what I want to fit what you can give me”

  109.  #109Azure Blu on July 5, 2014 at 1:14 pm

    For the past 2-3 years I’ve been feeling the clock ticking loudly (I’m 62)
    In fact the alarm was going off…
    I kept feeling this deep down fear
    that I was going to be alone for the rest of my life
    That I was NEVER going to find MR. Right!!!

    In the past few months I recognized that fear,
    I took her beautiful face in my warm, gentle hands
    and kissed her…
    told that fear softly…how much i loved her
    and sat her next to me
    and put my arms around her…
    I do this off and on when she needs attention.
    But the GREAT thing is…
    this fear has gotten Oh… so much smaller
    and my vibe of “I better find the right man quickly”
    is alll gone!! <:~)

  110.  #110Linda on July 5, 2014 at 1:16 pm

    Yesterday on the 4th… I was in a not so good mood. I was at my daughters. I was going thru the motions.. faking it till I make it. I was wishing that my week and week-end had gone differently and my life was different. I kept myself busy doing for the cookout etc. Then at firework time I sat in the group of people that were at her house and I felt alone. I missed the feeling of being “with” someone and I fought back tears as the fireworks were lighting up the sky before me.

    Then all the sudden I thought… no wait a minute here. Lets flip this. What you wished had happened for the 4th was simply imaginary. I challanged myself to focus on the reality of that moment instead. Before I knew it I was smiling at the beautiful colors and the perfect weather and thankful I had vision and my health and could watch my 4 year old grandson smile as he held his ears but watched the sky light up. Suddenly I felt peaceful.

    Makes me think of one of Dominiques posts about what we focus on grows… its true. There is beauty in everything and kind find it if we look.

  111.  #111Azure Blu on July 5, 2014 at 1:17 pm

    and guess what AZURE BLU?
    You will NEVER be alone ’cause I will
    Always be here with YOU!!

  112.  #112Linda on July 5, 2014 at 1:38 pm

    ooooh AzureBlue. If this were facebook (which I dont do.. or insta whatis or tweets… I would definately post

    “LIKE” to your post @ 112! and 113!

    “so what if I love you, so what if you love me, I’m not getting what I want from you and I can’t change what I want to fit what you can give me” That Rori! How perfect!

    Reality is my journey has led me to this exact place in 55 years. Its okay. I am happier now that I was the last several years of my marriage and I am not stuck. I have taken some big scary steps that I never thought I could and am ok even though it is not where I thought I would be at this stage in life. Thats okay too! Next time I feel differently.. I am going to remember your post and sit down with whats bugging me like you do. It is such a beautiful gentle word picture. Such a kind way to treat yourself.

    Indigo. I have had Dominique share the same thing with me “Can you love him and accept him just the way that he is, even if nothing ever changed?” I have sat and sat with that many a time with things that have come up with P.

    In my heart of heart my answer is No.

    A total sense of wellness will come to me soon. I just have these feelings to embrace and work thru.

  113.  #113Azure Blu on July 5, 2014 at 1:58 pm

    Linda #116
    ohhh thanks lovely siren!!

    I “LIKE” what your saying!!
    ” I am happier now than I was the last several years of my marriage and I AM NOT STUCK.”
    Fireworks, red, gold and green sparklies!!!

  114.  #114Mandy on July 5, 2014 at 3:47 pm

    Just tuning in…

    oh my goodness, I just got a *cheeky* bum slap in the kitchen after I was honest with my feelings, J knows it makes me laugh and is something I like. It was akin to me pinching his bum.

    Nice! I’m glad I was cognizant enough of the need for to do it properly just then.

    If I may, I feel that when a man says something women shrink back at, it tends to be something women do not relate to or understand;

    I think if a man says “Hey I’m okay with having sex as long as it is consensual and safe” he probably thinks he’s saying something very attractive and positive while making his wants known. he’s trying to communicate. I think I might play Plato to him in this case, and ask, why, with curiosity, but no judgement whatsoever. If you play it this way and probably don’t give him what he wants right away, I believe he may have a chance to fall for you and then you have waited for it, so maybe you will feel comfy. That is, if you want him to be attracted to you.

    I have totally developed a non-emotional state or sometimes a positive reaction when my man talks about what he thinks is hot on women, or if he loves a dress on a woman, if he looks at one, or if he says a joke about you know, she should wear that outfit every day. It used to bother me when I was out of shape and about 65 lbs overweight. Got out of that state of mind when I started lifting weights and building muscle and toning. Did you know you can BUILD a BUTT??? I had no idea!!!! 🙂

    PS – am not getting emails anymore, and am missing out! Need help.

  115.  #115Mandy on July 5, 2014 at 3:50 pm

    Linda – I love it. Yes yes yes…

  116.  #116Ignis on July 5, 2014 at 3:51 pm

    whoa, I just woke up in the middle of the night feeling rage and anger, feeling my whole body shaking. It was a long time I felt like that. I felt so angry that people give up on each other so easily nowadays, that no one has time and patience to really find what is being those walls that we build to protect ourselves. Felt so angry that one day everything can be perfect and the other it is the end. It feels so not fair. And now I feel like doing good old pillow throwing act, slapping him in the face and just being with myself.

    @AprilRose oh that was a nice one, that is how i felt with my now ex, i felt I could relax, and I miss that.

    @Azure Blu you totally rock my word with your comments 🙂

  117.  #117Sophie on July 5, 2014 at 4:40 pm

    Totally get that April Rose – I get high from male attention – but it depends where I’m at in myself – sometimes I feel like ‘no-one look at me’. Right now, cos I’m breaking away from B I’m like someone pay me some attention ha. I’ve been out at carnival all day and I had some attention but I feel a bit blergh cos I’m home and I wanted to carry on dancing and flirting but I couldn’t find people to go out with. Maybe, it’s also about feeling like I have options … none of the men (as far as I can tell) clubbing/carnivalling are viable options though – they are ‘drugs’. Hot and sexual but not where I should be looking for what I really want…ha ha do you know what – I think I might be starting to feel horny again! That’s a good sign. I’ve spent months just feeling worn out by B and not very attractive or open to men. Welcome back sexuality 🙂 I went out last weekend with quite a few men and I thirved from the attention – felt happier and stronger all week – that can’t be healthy can it?

  118.  #118prplpsn28 on July 5, 2014 at 4:59 pm

    Signing into new post. Need to catch up tho.

  119.  #119Linda on July 5, 2014 at 5:04 pm

    Well shift in motion today. I have decided to open up a new profile and posted it this afternoon. My fishing pole is out of moth balls. I polished her up and restrung it. It is officially back in the water.

    Last time I caught an “almost a keeper” . Lets see what happens this time. My full intent is to CD again soon.

  120.  #120nyx on July 5, 2014 at 5:31 pm

    @ Linda and LL and Azure 🙂
    Linda: “caught an ´`almost a keeper´”
    and Rori says better and better men will show up.. 😀 you know what’s waiting now 😉

    but I agree with her- your ex might come back later, trying to fit with your criteria… backside: when he does, you might be with someone else. Even being totally in love with your new guy. Speaking from experience. The man I was trying to have a relationship with is still around, three years later, trying to show how he changed. Trouble is, when I fight for years and finally give up, I do. Lesson learnt. I’m not ready to invest that tremendous amount of energy in any guy anymore. I’m wholly for “put yourself first” and amazed by the effect of fm.

    And: A BIG THANK YOU to LL and Azure. I’m a strong woman, just not always 😉 You have no idea how much your response to me a few posts back meant. Thank you both, so much! (Azure: “lighthearted”? Haha, not so much the first two, three times, then I noticed a pattern and addressed it. I like the idea of myself being lighthearted, though 🙂 )

  121.  #121luzydel on July 5, 2014 at 6:03 pm


    {After all, she is also discovering, probably for the first time in her life, what it means to be truly comfortable with herself. Sometimes this means she wants to be alone and do things solo, because this is where she finds her strength and gets her footing. In these moments, leave her alone, understanding that she can love you as much (if not more) when you’re not around, as when you’re right next to her. }

  122.  #122Linda on July 5, 2014 at 6:46 pm

    NYX. I don’t know what my future holds. I do know however what it won’t hold. More of P’s bad behavior.

    Yes it means that I have to let go of what I loved with him and what he did right too. So if he ever sees what caused me to call it quits … drops his baggage and works on it.. well then I will cross that bridge later.

    In my experience, men have resurfaced too. I have lost interest by then. My intention is to keep growing and moving toward the kind of relationship I want and enhances my life. I don’t mean that in a haughty way at all. It is just where I am headed.

  123.  #123Indigo on July 6, 2014 at 12:16 am

    Linda, you have sparked some interesting thoughts for me. I have really been thinking about what I can and can’t love in a man. Yesterday I felt a bit piney for Blue. We were good friends before we decided to date, and I miss that. However I suppose that is the chance you take when you decide to turn friendship into dating, and I have to accept that. As I think about it though, I realize that a man who has female friends with whom he consults about his every move, whose approval and acceptance is needed before he can move forward on anything, is not someone I could love. Family and friends are important, but for me, a man has to be an independent thinker – he has to be able to work things out with me without going to them about every little thing. So that is something I have learnt. Blue is someone I thought I could love, but I was wrong. It is so interesting to me to learn what I can and can’t love in a man, that is unique to me, like a fingerprint.

    For me, this has all been a journey of exploration of myself… where I’ve got to know myself on the most intimate level. And she has revealed herself to me in unexpected ways. I find that thought so exciting!

  124.  #124April Rose on July 6, 2014 at 3:51 am

    Hi Indigo,

    Further to your questions to me, and our agreement to riff and explore together, I have posted above (numbers 83,85,86, 102 and 103).

    I would love your feedback.

  125.  #125April Rose on July 6, 2014 at 4:03 am


    Sweet siren. I feel so inspired by you. I see you as warm and open and having explored all the possibilities with P. No-one can say you didn’t do your part to make it work.

    My questions are to you, to me, to us all.
    Why, when there are such big humdinging red flags, [RED WALLS even!] do we persist?

    It sounds like P held only venom in his heart for his ex-partners. Was that a small clue that you would be next if things didn’t work out?
    Do you worry about him thinking or speaking badly of you?

    I worry about this. WM appears to have a memory that diminishes the good times and makes the hard/bad times seem like all there was.
    I find this terrifying. I cannot bear the thought of being spoken badly of.

    And then again, I can’t control what anyone else says or does. I must remember it is a reflection of them if they speak that way.

    And in future I will spot that particular flag (WM spoke so bitterly of his wife when I met him) and it will be an instant “Next”!

  126.  #126Indigo on July 6, 2014 at 5:18 am

    Hello sweet April Rose 🙂

    83 & 85

    Yes the feeling of chemistry is so different to the intimacy which is possible over time when a man adores us. I would say they are like night and day. So important to be able to tell the difference, even feel it in our bodies…


    And yes I believe circular dating can very effectively teach you the difference, though I would say it’s as much about opening our own hearts and what we are capable of, as it is about the type of men we date and what they are capable of…


    I love the tree visualization/tool. I can’t wait to try it myself. Remember learning a similar thing in yoga where you use it to ground and balance yourself.

    Forgive me, but are you sure it’s just oxytocin? I feel that your need for independence/space and your possible fear of intimacy needs to be explored too. Natalie Lue (from Baggage Reclaim) says it’s impossible to be with an emotionally unavailable person over the long term unless we ourselves are emotionally unavailable. I had to come to terms with my own emotional unavailability. I don’t open my heart easily and there are very few people I deeply connect to and I use this to keep people at bay. I don’t see this as a bad thing, as I only have desire/energy available for deeply sharing and connecting with a small number of people, but it’s just as well to know that most men don’t stand a chance of deeply connecting with my heart. Nor am I ready for the kind of commitment most men are looking for in the timeframe they are looking for it in. I need a man who is willing to go at my pace.

    April Rose, I urge you to examine what it is *in you* that likes a man who is more emotionally distant. How does he mirror you? What do you fear or not want in a more available, traditional man?

    Also, is it possible you have stayed with WM out of a fear of feeling like a failure? Is there some part of you which feels like you might have failed if the relationship doesn’t work, and also which fears feeling like you failed in not being able to inspire him? I ask this because I have felt all these things at one time. Reframing them is so important.


    April Rose, I believe this is key for you. What is the pain and fear that the thought of being truly loved and adored brings up for you? For me, it’s fear of failure. What is it for you?

    *Big hugs* to you

  127.  #127Azure Blu on July 6, 2014 at 6:59 am

    it sounds like you are going through soooo much…
    Welcome to Siren Island… It is good you are here!!

    How long were you married?
    Have you bought any of RR DVDs?
    Are you Cding?

  128.  #128Azure Blu on July 6, 2014 at 7:11 am

    April Rose #132
    I agree… from what you have shared with us Linda.
    P must have sooo much self loathing… for he pushes and shuves everyone away!!!
    Such a big brick wall NO ONE can penetrate!!
    You can’t make that right… only He can…

    KS, my CD who I was exclusive with for 4 months…
    He had MANY qualities I liked
    However he had the same kind of reaction to some people…
    on the one hand he did have friends for 10-20 years BUT his family he spoke to SOOOO rudely and only had negative things to say about most of his ex’s
    of course in the beginning I was listening and watching… but when I got a clearer picture of his heart – ALL about KS and $$$-
    I realized~ What I wanted and who he was
    Like putting a square peg in a round hole…

    He tried to repair some of the damage…

    Fortunetly now… after 2 years with RR tools…
    When someone shows me who they are..
    I now believe them the first time…

  129.  #129Azure Blu on July 6, 2014 at 7:24 am

    I feel happy and sunshiny bright about
    how I made you feel heard!!

    I sooo agree with what you shared here…
    “When I fight for years and finally give up, I DO.
    Lesson learned.
    I’m not ready to invest that tremendous amount of
    energy in any guy
    I’m wholly for “put yourself first” and amazed by the effect of it!!!”

    I did just that in January and though our first year was AMAZING…
    the next year and a half was hellish (because I was addicted to Yearning and accepting crumbs)

    When he called (after 8 weeks) I felt physically sick and couldn’t even bare the thought of EVER talking to him again… because I had started LOVING ME soooo much!!!
    wrote a letter to say “Don’t ever contact me again!!”

  130.  #130Veronica on July 6, 2014 at 9:16 am

    Azure Blu – 115 – Oh yes! That is exactly where I was with BM.

  131.  #131Daria on July 6, 2014 at 11:10 am

    thank you for sharing April Rose

  132.  #132Daria on July 6, 2014 at 11:11 am

    i feel so disappointed Indigo is dating D again. i feel sad and like i get dragged through up and down pains reading about it

    i feel scared to share this. i feel scared to be ostracized by someone triggered who will then explain to me or withold themselves from me because they feel judged

    i feel sad

    thoguths I will never get through these communication blocks

    practicing being a lil braver here than lately

  133.  #133Daria on July 6, 2014 at 11:13 am

    115: Azure BluNo Gravatar says:

    Rori says:
    “so what if I love you, so what if you love me, I’m not getting what I want from you and I can’t change what I want to fit what you can give me”

    thank you Azure

  134.  #134Daria on July 6, 2014 at 11:18 am

    i feel triggered by these words from indigo – feeling terrified im triggering Indigo and the ‘repercussions’ of triggering someone –

    ‘ I only have desire/energy available for deeply sharing and connecting with a small number of people, but it’s just as well to know that most men don’t stand a chance of deeply connecting with my heart.’

    this feels scary and something i think Rori works with us to stop believing about ourselves. I have made some babysteps in this area

    bec i thought only some ppl are for me and also keeping it small – hey only one man ‘connected’ per like… Decade

    and then as i started dropping this thought and opening up it changed my experience so that so many people are able to connect with me and not in a drainy way

    it’s like life didn’t function by the ‘rules’ i thought and tehn it felt amazing to experience different in such a ‘set’ feeling experience for me

    im still working on believing this is not true for me, babysteps at a time so i wonder if thats why its triggering me reading tht

    even though now ‘connecting’ men show up monthly, rather than Decadely

    i wana take it to where they show up even more and im even more open

  135.  #135Azure Blu on July 6, 2014 at 11:18 am

    Adriel #34
    VERY interesting…
    I have found that to be true also!
    A man I dated, owned a construction company
    and as we dated more
    He started saying rather vulgar things…
    I explained to him that “I’m a girl and it feels bad hearing things like that”
    He started being more careful and said “I don’t know all the right ways to act, but… I like learning!!”

  136.  #136Daria on July 6, 2014 at 11:19 am

    i feel so anxious and unloved talking about these things

    i feel so freaked out and incompetent sharing my feelings on these things without being so vague that im not really ‘got’ or

    without judging, or feeling terrified that im judging

    please help with communication thank you

  137.  #137Daria on July 6, 2014 at 11:22 am

    the words im not reading do not vibe and ring like the receiving goddess having her door beaten down by a man who can’t keep away

    i feel sad

    thsi is how my face feels 🙁

    i don’t feel safe sharing this. i dont want to be ‘explained to’ after sigh

    i want this to heal in my outside blog life

  138.  #138Azure Blu on July 6, 2014 at 11:34 am

    Daria #141
    I’m feeling open and receiving, reading what you shared…

    You are being sooo vulnerable, lovely Siren…
    Thank you for bringing your brave, authentic self here to Siren Island!!!

    Yes, Daria… I love what you are saying…

    What has been sooo life changing for me..
    Rori does want us to practice opening up to ALLL the wonderful possibilities…
    MY old story was keep closed off, don’t trust,
    … there’s only ONE man for me…
    and like you,
    baby steps, I can open my heart to more and more love… by loving me…

  139.  #139Tam on July 6, 2014 at 11:43 am

    I get it Indigo. Sorry if I made you feel like you don’t want to share. Just hit close to home, and since after my episode with similar circumstances, I found the affection thing with other men so easy and breezy, that I just can’t imagine asking for a hug being a big deal, that would feel bad to me. Everybody is different though, so I get it. I like to feel like I can do anything with my man, even grabbing his balls under the table, and he will laugh about it….(sorry, not at I *do* that). I love being light hearted about giving and receiving affection. I could never go back.

  140.  #140Tam on July 6, 2014 at 11:54 am

    So the plans with wildchild were all overthrown due to his friends not keeping to schedule, which meant he was late for lunch and the football game and I went out by myself and was royally pissed.
    I nearly dumped him. He begged me to come to the beach after, where they had waited for me and were totally burnt and exhausted lol.
    He apologized and said in front of his friends: Sorry guys, whatever you are doing this afternoon, I totally messed up and the rest of the day ‘she’ is going to decide what she wants to do and I am going along with that.

    I was impressed. He took me for dinner to a womderful place on the water, insisted that we had our pocture taken and so on.

    He is moving this along nicely, and has told me already that he is a long term guy and is looking for someone for the rest of his life. He sid he would feel happy introducing me to his Mom, and that he has often dated girls where he had no intention of takimg things further like that.
    We spent two days and nights together, and had a very low key time, playing scrabble and just hanging out. He doesn’t have a lot financially but he takes me out and pays for everything even though I offer. He brings wine etc.
    There was no sex, just playing. Lol. He was totally holding back and when I raised the subject, and said that to me it feels better to get to know someone, he said: yes, I already knew that about you, and I totally respected that.

    So he tirns out to be really lovely up until right now. I still don’t see us long term, although we have many similarities, he is unsettled with his lifestyle and I need stability, not someone who might move to South America because he likes to surf there lol. Having said that, I am just taking it one day at a time and it feels wonderful right now..
    It’s been a long time coming, to be dating a guy who feels 100% in, from day 1 actually. He never questions anything, no doubts. He says he enjoys every bit of this.
    Me too, really.
    So easy. I am enjoying that easy stage while it lasts 😉

  141.  #141Indigo on July 6, 2014 at 12:20 pm


    I’m not at all triggered, and I won’t get all explainy on you. I respect how you feel and your views, and I also respect how I feel and my views.

    My heart is big enough to live with both in this world.

    Love to you

  142.  #142Indigo on July 6, 2014 at 12:21 pm

    Thanks Tam.

    Again, I would never presume for another woman. I only know how I feel.


  143.  #143Linda on July 6, 2014 at 12:28 pm


    I am finding that discovering what I am willing to live with and without takes time. I instantly know when I something doesn’t sit well and is off but knowing if some things are a deal breaker for me are not so instantaneous. Each man that has come into my life has had a message for me. I admit I was a wounded mess as a woman as a result of my relationship prior to P. My physical relationship with him brought growth, healing and wellness to my life. The ways he looked at me.. that appreciative gaze and his touch stirred feelings of beauty in me. I know now that I don’t want to live without now that I have experienced it in a romantic relationship.

    I navigated thru this relationship staying in tune with my feelings. They inspired my communication and I tried to use feeling messages as much as possible. I also just let them influence my vibe and express them that way too. I really want to improve this.. I affords me the opportunity to be genuine when I do.

    I do not do well with someone wanting to control me. I don’t bring that to the table and have no appetite for it if that is what is served to me. I am a creative soul with intuitive spirit. I need the freedom to “be” me.

    So as my journey continues. I have learned more about me. I am willing to admit when I am wrong, scared, unsure, need help or don’t. I better know what I want and don’t want and a found my voice to express it.

  144.  #144Tam on July 6, 2014 at 1:04 pm

    I was not always the biggest fan of circular dating, but it brought one thing home for me. There are many men I can connect with, on different levels. That does not mean it is easy to find my ‘one’, but it means that I feel like I have a better chance of it, than getting stuck on a man in the name of love.
    The other thing I noticed, is that I don’t actually fall in love with a man anymore, who isn’t 100% into me and coming towards me, which is why it is so easy to let those go. Two years ago I did not even think it was possible, or that love is a conscious decision. Well, that has changed.
    And it’s really revolutionised not only my dating life (which is still up and down) but most importantly my mental state. I am so much calmer in many ways, knowing and trusting that there are options and I have the pick of only the best – for me. Which does not mean a perfect man, but one who is perfect for me, flaws and all.

  145.  #145Linda on July 6, 2014 at 1:18 pm

    April Rose…

    Yes there were things that stood out and blinked at me warning warning. How a man talks about his ex’s, mother, sisters is important and very telling of their pre-disposition toward women. I noticed and felt clued in on what was in his heart.

    There were lots of very wonderful things in his heart too. He had a very giving, affectionate, soft side and to that I was very drawn and was very fulfilling to me.

    In all I would have to say that the one thing that did not happen with him that would have made all the difference for me is to truly be able to connect with his heart. Yes his anger and his personal sense of worth fuel lots of his behavior. They are his road blocks to peace and happiness. Until he sees that and realizes that all the women he has had in his life are probably sending him the same message or he is getting the same results…it will stay as it is.

    I honestly can say though that what others say about me is none of my business. I try to live rightly related to people. Treat them as I would want to be treated. Their words are their responsibility and my actions and word are mine.

    I believe that people can change if they want to. P made adjustments and that gave me hope but his inability to stop doing what ultimately what drove me to disinterest and unwillingness to invest anymore of my energy did not.

  146.  #146April Rose on July 6, 2014 at 2:08 pm


    Thank you for your comments and questions to me.
    Reading them brings up clear answers.

    My recent experience is showing me I have two hearts!!

    I have a playful, pure heart which is often open.

    And another one, which is volatile, and carries a charged pocket of loss (it’s huge) that sits just in front of my heart, energetically. I am becoming much more aware of when I am in it. From this standpoint I cannot bear any more loss no matter how much I know I need to end a relationship.

    These last days, with grounding myself, feeling the tree roots, and centering myself in my true heart, I’ve been able to observe the wounded heart and its agenda.

    My true heart wants intimacy. No fear there. Only an uplifting sensation that brings a smile to my whole body when I anticipate connecting with my match.

  147.  #147Adriel on July 6, 2014 at 2:20 pm

    Azure Blu #142

    I like the way that man responded to you! That’s something you could work with. 🙂

    luzybel #128

    What a beautiful blog post! I’m, like, weeping. That is so me, and it helps me feel good about myself the way I am now.

  148.  #148April Rose on July 6, 2014 at 2:33 pm


    I have engaged Rori’s tools in deepening my connection with all people – children, women, and men.

    But then, my whole life’s work is about connection and removing obstacles to it.

    I can get triggered too, when I read that someone is selective in who they connect with. And then I realise that it can be more complex for other people, and I choose to trust that they are where they need to be on their path.

    I think your communication is growing and developing all the time. Please keep sharing what you need to share and one day you will find yourself saying/writing the words that ring out in unity with your heart (and your doubts will fade).

  149.  #149Azure Blu on July 6, 2014 at 2:58 pm

    Linda #150…
    Wow!!! I feel in awe…
    The way you have expressed YOU
    Is beautiful!!

  150.  #150Azure Blu on July 6, 2014 at 3:11 pm

    April Rose, Tam, Linda, Indigo… #150-155
    Most eloquent Sirens…
    I haven’t read soooo much beautiful, soul changing, shining, amazing writing on this blog in a long time!!!
    I am sitting here reading it all and my heart is full of joy!!!

  151.  #151Azure Blu on July 6, 2014 at 3:17 pm

    Loved reading about your date with wildman…

  152.  #152Azure Blu on July 6, 2014 at 3:24 pm

    Yes, he did have some wonderful qualities…
    BUT unfortunately he had qualities that only years of therapy would ever change…
    Sooo… I let him go…
    and I am on my horse, learning to open my heart and make connections with all around me!

    Living my happily ever after, one day at a time
    and looking forward to meeting
    the man who will join me!!!

  153.  #153Azure Blu on July 6, 2014 at 3:35 pm

    Wow sounds sooo
    moving forward…
    getting that fishing pole out of the moth balls!

  154.  #154Mandy on July 6, 2014 at 3:53 pm

    Tam, I was not always a fan of CDing either if I have a GOOD man, which is something Evan Mark Katz talks about. If you have a good man, the CDing can spoil the goodness of it.

    With J, when I have CDed around him, boy he gets puffed up with anger and then basically shows his masculine want to keep and protect me, which I like.

    I have had someone recently barking up my tree. He only wants sex though and I’m not into that. I’d rather have coffee and talk or watch a movie with a male friend, that is how I’d feel comfy Cding, just if it is somewhat harmless as far as sex goes, and just being around another male. That would trigger J’s protectiveness.


  155.  #155Mandy on July 6, 2014 at 4:10 pm

    PS – I mean CDIng with sex!!! It’s dangerous to do with a good man by your side was Katz’s point I believe…

  156.  #156Tam on July 6, 2014 at 5:42 pm

    Mandy, if I had a good man who was offering me the commitment I wanted, there would be no reason to CD. If he isn’t or things are not clear cut, and he isn’t 100% in, then why not?
    I was dating a very good man who turned out a commitmentphobe. Had I continued with him and nkt stayed open to other men, I would be deeply unhappy now. I also like to date one man at a time, but if he is not booking me up or moving the relationship forward, he isn’t goimg to have me all to himself…I wouldn’t have sex with more than one man at a time, never have.

  157.  #157Tam on July 6, 2014 at 5:45 pm

    Thank ypu Azure Blu…I loved spending time with him. I did prejudge him rather harshly with his tattoos and long hair and smoking and instable work life, but the more I get to know him, the more he seems just a normal guy who is a little of a free spirit. We will see if ‘too free’ for me or not 🙂

  158.  #158Labbit on July 6, 2014 at 5:50 pm

    Went to a BBQ today with a new CD. Nice, casual date. I didn’t know the neighborhood where the BBQ was held very well, so I used feeling messages and asked him if he’d pick me up beforehand. I didn’t expect him to say yes; he lives on the other side of the city close to the BBQ but he did pick me up! He scored major points there. Also noticed that in the buffet line he scooped everything I was interested in onto my plate for me (“girl portions please!” I said and he obliged). It felt nice.

    Then this afternoon I spent some time in a bookstore flirting. Holding eye contact with men for 6 seconds is SO HARD!! It feels unnatural to me and even harder when they look away. I made it into a game and pretended like my eyes were stuck on a spot on the wall behind them, and then oops this hot guy caught my eye! It seemed to work. Talked to a couple of attractive gentlemen and though they went nowhere I got a lot out of it paying attention to my feelings. I felt slightly panicked afterwards. My heart was beating out of my chest.

    Not thinking about the CD who broke up with me too much — when I do my head starts spinning into if onlys so I’ve just put him on the back of my horse and he’s now coming along for the ride as my muse.

  159.  #159Linda on July 6, 2014 at 7:20 pm

    Thanks AzureBlue. I have had some good getting in touch with me on the gut level this week end. When a feeling pops up I have been coming along side it and listening to what it is saying.

    Today I have been feeling angry and stirred up inside. I feel put out that I have to give up the things I really liked to be free of the things I could not live with anymore. It is just not fair! Why did he have to be so adolescent emotionally? grrrr

    I really dont get how a man could love you so much and seem delighted one day only to hear the exact opposite the next. What the heck do you believe? It was very unsettling to me and wore me out.

    Enough now… I got it out of my brain for the moment. huff

  160.  #160luzydel on July 6, 2014 at 7:33 pm

    Today I took me on a date. It fell nice to just drive to a place I haven’t been before and enjoy my own company. I like this alone time all by myself with my own needy feelings of wanting to be with someone, but this time instead of denying I feel needy; I admit it and then I feed my own neediness with my company. Im falling for me 🙂

  161.  #161Indigo on July 6, 2014 at 9:33 pm

    April Rose 153,

    Wow, this is so beautiful, and I can resonate and relate with it so much!

    You could do great things with this awareness.


  162.  #162Indigo on July 6, 2014 at 9:38 pm

    April Rose 155,

    Yes yes YES.

    Connection and deep relationship is my life’s work too. I too have engaged Rori’s tools to great benefit in my life.

    “And then I realise that it can be more complex for other people, and I choose to trust that they are where they need to be on their path.”

    YES. Everyone is different and they connect differently. I do what brings me joy and what makes me feel good. And when I can say that I feel DEEP joy in the way that *I* have been able to connect, it is so true that it brings tears to my eyes and makes my heart feel like it wants to burst.

  163.  #163Linda on July 7, 2014 at 3:52 am

    Already at work this morning. I really did not sleep well. I also hate it when my first thoughts when I wake up are unpleasant. That has been happening a lot lately. This troubles me. It is like I cant wait to remind myself that I dont have what I want in my life. I wish I could flip this script. But honestly I do have a level of discontentment in my life. This is what I want to satisfy and quiet.

    There is a feeling that comes just from knowing that you are important and special to someone. It evokes a warm and peaceful mostly to me.

    I want to flip this whole thing and make it positive.

  164.  #164Ignis on July 7, 2014 at 6:08 am

    haha, Im laughing like hell right now. I always knew if I get really really mad something good happens right after that. Rori wrote somewhere on the blog here that we are so afraid of feeling the rage we stuff it down and when we allow ourselves to feel it the fear is gone and then feeling morph to something else and so on. So last two days I was just focusing on the rage and so many thoughts came to me. I figured out I feel like a bad person when I either say to a man i do not want to be friends or when I date more than one at the same time. I figured i do not want to decide whether I want to be friends at once and that I can date myself instead of other men. Mostly I figured I do not have to go by everything that is in the tools and rules here, but I have to just decide what works for me and what doesn’t. I’m am me 🙂 Guess this is what all this is about 🙂 It feels good.

  165.  #165Ignis on July 7, 2014 at 6:13 am

    @Linda oh i also very often wake up with such thoughts and it takes a lot of work to flip them to the positive, so i figured i will try small first. And I started to turn them to: hey, I am alive and I can feel something 🙂

  166.  #166Ignis on July 7, 2014 at 6:15 am

    @luzydel, that feels sexy. I feel plain guilty for having me time, so I borrow my friends dog for the alone trips in the city, so I can feel I do something useful.

  167.  #167Linda on July 7, 2014 at 6:18 am

    I wish that P would have been accepting of me just like I am and was not always measuring me agains what he thought was right or acceptable. I felt like he was always trying to change me.

    I wish he had been accepting of the dynamics in my family instead of being offended that my girls did not behave they way he expected they should toward him. How wonderful it would have felt to have him help find a solution instead of demand that I find a way to fix it so it was acceptable to him.

    I wish I for a man who’s agenda is open and plyable and will love me for me with my imperfections.

  168.  #168Femininewoman on July 7, 2014 at 11:11 am

    Linda I wish for you that you will be accepting of your life and yourself. The impression I get of the way that man spoke to you at times was not worth being with him even if he was the only man on the planet. You made your decision honor the woman who made the decision looking out for herself.

  169.  #169Azure Blu on July 7, 2014 at 11:48 am

    Soft, gentle Siren…

    Yes, you are right… YOU deserve
    An Adoring, loving, thoughtful man
    Who can be a partner and
    can initiate mutual solutions
    when negotiating family dynamics…
    I have a vision of that for you!!!

  170.  #170Azure Blu on July 7, 2014 at 11:56 am

    When I began noticing and feeling MY RAGE it was soooo BIGGGGG, Enormous!!!!
    she terrified ME…
    SHE made me nauseous… I was shaking for days, weeks, body tingly wierd!!!
    I was Sooo scared about my emotional state….
    I had Valerie as my RR coach then and she helped me
    get through the difficult times…

    As I started befriending her…
    Loving her…
    She has gotten smaller… :->
    But I notice she does have an ebb and flow…
    But NOT as BIG and overwhelming as she used to be.
    AHHH sweet, lovely RAGE,
    Thank you for sharing Your POWER with ME….

  171.  #171Kim on July 7, 2014 at 12:54 pm

    Trying to change my name…kind of paranoid that people I know read all my crap lol

  172.  #172Linda on July 7, 2014 at 12:57 pm

    FW.. Thank you for your words of support. They feel a soft reminder and encouragement to me. Honor me and the decision I made for me! YES I can do that!

    AzureBlue..I feel inspired by your post… I am going to start speaking my wishes and anticipating their reality. I my journey to this point has been a preparation to receive and line my life up so that I am not in the way of blocking them.


    I had a catch up session with an old co-worker who left to take a full time position today. It was so great! Her fiance’ had surgery today. She asked me about P and I gave her little update. She knows some of the back story and recalled some actual texts he had sent me at work and the turmoil and drama it stirred. Her take was… P has some deep emotional issues that push people away and is causing to miss out an great opportunity to have happy life with me.

    I am home and gonna snuggle with my warm puppy. That always feels peaceful and good to me.


  173.  #173Indigo on July 7, 2014 at 1:28 pm


    Have a warm hug from me to you too!

  174.  #174Indigo on July 7, 2014 at 1:35 pm

    My mom told me some very challenging things about myself today. It was a bit painful, but also liberating because those are now things I can work to improve and shift.

    It was about my relationships with basically everyone in my life.

    Hmm, good night’s sleep for me now I hope. I’m exhausted. Goodnight lovely sirens xx

  175.  #175Azure Blu on July 7, 2014 at 1:47 pm

    Sweet Dreams, gentle Indigo!!!

  176.  #176sequoia on July 7, 2014 at 2:11 pm

    I would appreciate your help dear sirens.

    I had a date with G-Cd today. I came buy his boutique as I was in the area and he invited me to visit him. It was the 2nd time we met and I kind of felt awkward being in the shop, sitting there, as he had to serve his customers. I didn’t stay long and I do not feel comfortable to meet there again unless I know him better.

    His ex-girlfriend of 6 month also still works for him in the shop (she wasn’t there so) and he told me he feels very grateful for this. I feel very triggered by it as my last imaginary relationship fell apart because he could not let go of his ex and I didn’t see the red flags….

    So I feel very uncomfortable already.I don’t know any details reg. their current connection, only so that they broke up because things didn’t work out and there were to many things which didn’t fit, but my last ex said that too about his ex and than realised that he was still in love with her after seeing me for 5 month.

    Obviously I am burned and so I feel triggered by this and very cautious now.

    How would it be best to procede and express my feelings and when woud be a good time to bring it up? Should I just wait until he ask to be exclusive or makes any comments about it?

    He seems to be very attracted to me and is not shy about physical contact. He gave me kisses today when I came to visit him in the shop in front of his customers and he texts and also calls, but doesn’t really want to talk about his ex,at least that’s how it felt to me, when I asked why they split up.

  177.  #177Mandy on July 7, 2014 at 2:12 pm

    Indigo –

    I am someone who doesn’t do well with criticism naturally, and I know I need to work on my defensiveness.

    Rori mentions how utterly feminine it is, to be soft, to not go into a hard stance and tighten muscles, and to accept the comments…saying yes, I may tend to do that sometimes, I will make a mental note of it…or, that’s a good idea, I might try it…I remember in animation college there was a thing we’d do called “dailies”. We’d run our reels in front of the class, and the class would be open for discussion on what’s good and what can be improved/what may be missing. It’s tough, but after awhile of it, you get used to it, because it’s part of the job. You are allowed to say yes, this was my thought process when I did it, and you are allowed to defend your thought process, but then tell them you are open to consideration of their point of view, and the next go around, consider the feedback and tweak it like so.
    Animators go through it on a daily basis, so maybe you can treat criticism like a daily, and let them know you respect their opinion.

    I know if I deliver any criticism, I do it with a compliment sandwich…I say this is working and this is awesome keep it up, you might want to work on this area as it is a little weak and I’m not getting an impact from it, but overall good work ethic and great idea. If I were say, my dad, I’d employ that method because I know the women around me are sensitive!!! Works great with friends.

    Sort of like in here! I KNOW I get defensive and I’m so sorry I feel so silly afterwards! But the women here are so nice, and kind. A lot of the ladies will offer advice and I do consider it! 🙂

  178.  #178Mandy on July 7, 2014 at 2:19 pm


    Sounds like you are exercising your boundaries healthfully. Good for you! I had to learn how to say no, because I am a people-pleaser AND I beat myself up lol!

    Keep up the good work 🙂 I know my J has a friendship with his ex, who really screwed him over and yeah, I was furious about it at first, but then I got into shape, and it melted away. I understand why he might want to because I feel like my exes could’ve been best friends of mine, because we had SO many laughs and good times together, and if I can be friends with one, I definitely try to keep goodness and peace in my life, and honestly, if J had a problem with it, I’d feel flattered but I’d tell him hey, these are friends, no one dictates who my friends are, and I get the feeling this guy might be very upset if someone asked him not to be friends with his ex, especially if he’s grateful for her help. Obviously there’s a reason why they aren’t together anymore, so keep that in mind, it didn’t work between them, so here’s your chance to be a white-hot siren and just let everything flow freely in front of his ex and shine like a star! Of course if you really feel this bothers you, you might want to keep looking, it’s all up to you 🙂

    Just my two cents! 🙂 I feel sometimes, I can get into a guys head and play devils advocate here. If anyone needs me to play Plato to their Socrates, I’m wide open to it, especially because I have a lot of masculine energy, and understand the need to jump up and do something right away to fix a problem! 🙂

  179.  #179Millie on July 7, 2014 at 2:52 pm

    Ladies, haven’t heard from J but he’s been “liking” a bunch of my Facebook posts. I don’t care too much, but can’t help but feel a little curious about it. Have I been “friend zoned?”

  180.  #180luzydel on July 7, 2014 at 3:31 pm

    @ 173: Ignis

    Why do you feel guilty spending time with yourself and doing something nice just for you? And why it isn’t useful unless you’re doing something for others? How do you know what kind of treatment you’ll want from a man if you don’t start doing it yourself…

    I call what I do “Soul masturbation” ( 🙂 ) …

  181.  #181Ignis on July 7, 2014 at 3:44 pm

    @Luzydel it makes me feel guilty if i do nothing, i just feel i do not want to waste my time. All my alone time is creative, painting, or taking pics or training or cleaning, that is what makes me happy. And I guess I feel guilty because if I do not do stuff for others I do not feel deserving to get something back. You have a point there, maybe the fact that I cannot really sit on my ass for longer than 5 mins is something I need to work on. Maybe this is my intensity, this feels interesting.

  182.  #182Femininewoman on July 7, 2014 at 4:52 pm

    sequoia why they split is his business until he chooses to share. Asking why without an organic conversation seems to suggest that you have insecurities and are focussing on the wrong thing.

  183.  #183Zia on July 7, 2014 at 5:20 pm

    hello lovely sirens! well i’ve been feeling more like myself over the past week or so. phew! those anxieties and insecurities were coming up out of no where! i just viewed them as a chance to review my lessons – i dealt with them differently than i ever have in the past, but also, i got the chance to see how it feels to be with a supportive guy in a healthy relationship while i dealt with those insecurities. i would have been able to do so on my own anyway, but i allowed myself to trust him too.

  184.  #184Millie on July 7, 2014 at 7:14 pm

    Old habits die hard.
    I have no desire to chase after J, but my desire for Mechanic is still burning. I thought it was gone…but then he took me to the movies and put his arm around me. We didn’t drink after, but stayed up late and talked about life and art… My two favorite subjects. I don’t know why I’m so attracted to someone who isn’t right for me. It’s hard to live with that attraction and know it can’t go anywhere and him being 14 yrs older than me, is probably in my best interest that it doesn’t. I’m loving the friendship though, I really enjoy talking to him. As I said old habits die hard, the feeling of wanting to be a better, more attraction enhancing woman lingers over me. I feel like I understand attraction and can see how some things I do and say work against me.

    I find myself wanting to apologize to him… But instead I took a step back and discovered the person I really want to apologize to is ME. I am the only one holding myself back from being the woman I want to be. When I talk to him about work and a project I want to do, he says ok, do it. I hear his voice in my head regarding this also, even though I haven’t shared it with him. Just BE it. If I want more, be a woman who wants more. I’m not owning what I really want. I was practicing that with J, but I feel like I was so enchanted with being treated better, I lost a little sight on the process.

    Anyway, the point is….instead of worrying about the mistakes I made now, I need to own what I really want and just BE that. Just be it. Fake it till you make it right?

  185.  #185Millie on July 7, 2014 at 7:35 pm


    If you felt uncomfortable at his shop, I would agree that maybe encourage seeing him more outside of it. I agree with Femininewoman, that bringing the gf up would reveal more insecurity on your part, rather than establishing a connection with him. Let him talk to you about it when he is ready. I would try not to let your past taint your experience with him in the early stages. Just be open and let him show you who he is. If you feel after some time, it is still an issue with you, maybe bring it up when you have both established a strong connection and level of trust where you can be open about such painful experiences. Talking about it so early might have the affect of–well other men did this to me, and I’m scared you are just like them. I don’t see that going over well.

  186.  #186Millie on July 7, 2014 at 7:37 pm

    167 Luzydel,

    I love this: “but this time instead of denying I feel needy; I admit it and then I feed my own neediness with my company. Im falling for me”

    I feel needy a lot….and I have to work on satiating that feeling with myself.

  187.  #187Linda on July 7, 2014 at 7:48 pm

    I really really like the thought of honoring the woman who made a decision to look out for herself. I have been thinking about it all evening. It defrags me.. unscatters me. It feels… um well “united and whole”.


    When I got home from work I put on comfy pants and a t shirt that my girls gave me years ago. It says “queen of everything” on it. I usually do not wear it out in public but when I woke up from my nap I decided I would go to the grocery. (something I have been putting off because I just did not want to spend the money). Anyway, when I was in the store I noticed a couple of people reading my shirt as I walked thru the store and I chuckled to myself. Then I just decided to change my posture inside and out… I throughly amused myself as I shopped! Yes I am queen of everything tonight ! lol

  188.  #188sequoia on July 8, 2014 at 3:39 am

    thank you Feminine women and Milli.
    ‘why they split is his business until he chooses to share. Asking why without an organic conversation seems to suggest that you have insecurities and are focussing on the wrong thing.’
    I needed to hear this and also what you shared Milli, to learn new ways of relating.
    I feel very grateful for this support here.

    Want to put my energy into staying open to other men….even so it feels strange to me and discomfortable feelings come up…I want to stretch myself into a new way of being .

    I also want to work on my boundaries, as in some situation they do not exist at all and I also project this onto others ( see its not my business with his ex).
    Learning a lot from a book that I
    have discovered reg. my core wounds. ‘The emotional incest syndrome’ by Dr.Patricia Love,
    emotional entaglements with my mother that still influence my life now, and that I want to heal.

  189.  #189sequoia on July 8, 2014 at 3:47 am

    and thank you Mandy, for sharing your own experience.
    You right ‘Obviously there’s a reason why they aren’t together anymore, so keep that in mind, it didn’t work between them, so here’s your chance to be a white-hot siren and just let everything flow freely in front of his ex and shine like a star! ‘
    Its a new opportunity and to do things different.
    In the last connection I brought up the ex to much instead of being sireny….I want to implement all the tools now and be surprised 🙂

  190.  #190Veronica on July 8, 2014 at 3:51 am

    A potential CD who I thought wasn’t going to phone did phone. He seems really nice, like a gentleman. I had been feeling reluctant to talk to him but now I feel more intrigued. Again, I am surprised that the person I thought he was, wasn’t.

    And someone from the town I wanted to move to, viewed my profile. I felt trepidation at the possibility of sinking into sticky stuckness and avoided looking at his profile. I finally did look and enjoyed reading his profile. And no stuckness.

  191.  #191Indigo on July 8, 2014 at 5:56 am

    Mandy 184,

    Thank you for this post and your beautiful thoughts on feedback and criticism. I love it, and thought of saying Yes and receiving non-defensively.

    My mom’s words to me were about me being open to others… ironically something I was talking to Daria about just the other day. She pointed out the ways I sometimes shut myself off from others and reject them and can sometimes get caught up in my own world without taking enough time to understand other people and how they feel, more about “putting myself out there”. There is a lot of truth in what she said which I wasn’t so aware of, so it has given me a direction for extending and improving myself.

    I would like to be more open to others, to be there for them more, to take the time, to invest in my relationships. To stretch my comfort zone for the sake of relating to others. This feels good. I feel that this will also reward my heart.

  192.  #192Indigo on July 8, 2014 at 5:59 am

    sequoia 183,

    You’ve got some great advice here, and I just wanted to also encourage you not to say anything yet. This is putting the cart before the horse if you have only been dating a short time. It’s very early and nothing so far has presented a cause for concern, so rather err on the side of just letting him unfold to you as he will.

  193.  #193April Rose on July 8, 2014 at 6:00 am

    Azur Blu

    Thank you for your appreciation of the uplifting writings in this thread. Yours are included. 🙂

  194.  #194April Rose on July 8, 2014 at 6:00 am


    Thank you, sweet lady.

  195.  #195April Rose on July 8, 2014 at 6:01 am


    I too am homouring the woman who is taking care of herself (me). That feels wonderful, and I love the way you expressed it.

  196.  #196Indigo on July 8, 2014 at 6:03 am

    Millie 186,

    Of course J is drawn to your sireny self, but most likely he is unable to do more at the moment. Maybe those few dates were all he could manage. You are doing so great though, in not getting caught up in it all, your post 191 is beautiful!

  197.  #197Femininewoman on July 8, 2014 at 6:18 am

    RE 194 Yayy Linda. That felt juicy to read

  198.  #198Femininewoman on July 8, 2014 at 7:11 am

    Bob Grant

    A woman doesn’t change a man – she enhances him. Whatever is inside his heart will become magnified the closer he lets her get to his heart.
    Bad men become worse….Kind men become kinder.

  199.  #199iris on July 8, 2014 at 8:59 am

    Hey Sirens! I have

  200.  #200iris on July 8, 2014 at 9:04 am

    *Hey Sirens! I have a question for you ladies. I have mastered the leaning back process, and have limited my over-functioning. Now, it feels hard leaning forward. I feel my boyfriend withdrawing, and he has shared he feels frustrated that I don’t do things like baby him when he’s sick, or text him as often.

    Now I’m always in my head, wondering if I’m leaning too back, and after having started watching the Rori Raye Collection of videos, I’m thinking too much about what I’m doing or if I’m giving too much or too less.

    Do any of you ladies experience something similar?

  201.  #201Linda on July 8, 2014 at 9:48 am

    April Rose @202- I cant take credit for that it was from FW. But it feels sooo good.

    I typed it out in a really lovely font and put it on my computer at work this morning. It is going to go alll over my house too. It has caused a shift in my thoughts and helped me with the division I was feeling within me.

  202.  #202Sophie on July 8, 2014 at 10:12 am

    205 – bad men become worse – mmmmm – I’ve definitely experienced that one – I wouldn’t necessarily use the word ‘bad’ though

    Iris – yes there’s often discussion around this. My understanding is to find the ebb and flow that feels good to you. Lean back is a great tool if you don’t feel the energy flowing towards you and it would feel hurtful if you lent forward and still didn’t feel that energy flowing towards you – it helps stay in your own feminine energy and gives him space to move forward but moving forward sometimes is okay – if it feels right. For me, it’s key to keep an eye on over-functioning (or attempting to control). It’s all in how your energy feels and being aware of what (if any) your motivation may be…

    Today’s yucky feelings are coming home with different feelings from the feelings B wanted me to have. He finally made it to the housing – I have stood my ground this time and he has obviously understood he needed to do something. I have not engaged with him in anyway – when he’s tried to plead with me, be abusive to me, whatever the tactic – I have kept myself to myself. But, Sirens, he wanted my applause, my praise, that he had taken the action that I’d asked him to take months ago.

    He was all joyful as they’ve given him an appointment in 9 days time where as all I feel is cross and disappointed. That’s not all, I feel happy that he’s got the appointment but cross and disappointed that it has taken so long. And chances are there may be a waiting list though maybe he’ll be lucky.

    i also felt cross that he reported everything they said to him with excitement. Before I quit I worked in housing I told him exactly what the procedure was and what his options were ages ago – I guess he was unable to hear it from me but I felt annoyed that I was expected to get excited about something that I’d already told him and I felt disappointed that he hadn’t listened to me or trusted me in the first place.

    Then I felt bad because I hadn’t behaved ‘the way I was supposed to’ by not being full of joy and praise and B looked all bubble burst and went back to his cave. I cannot do anything about it because there is no communication between us – I am censored on expressing anything that he does not want to hear.

    Uggghhhh can’t wait til these messy exchanges are no more.

  203.  #203Indigo on July 8, 2014 at 10:12 am


    Dominique talks about this, and she can probably offer some wise words. About how it’s perfectly ok to lean forward or initiate contact now and then when you’re in an established relationship, as long as it feels good and you have no expectations.


  204.  #204Kim on July 8, 2014 at 10:14 am

    It’s Tam, I changed my name.
    Ugh. Feeling weird today. I don’t even know if I want to date anymore. Have a date today with the wild child and feel really anxious about it and it reminds me of how I used to feel with MrP…same. Anxious.
    Between him and this, I dated a few ‘blah’ guys where I never felt anxiois or nervous, MoM was bland and sweet and I just felt calm before and during dates. He was a commitment phobe though, so maybe that’s why I felt calm lol.
    You know what, could be!
    Maybe I get nervous when men move things along.
    I don’t really know if I want all this…eek.

  205.  #205Sophie on July 8, 2014 at 10:15 am

    (((Veronica))) I feel smily reading your post

  206.  #206Sophie on July 8, 2014 at 10:18 am

    Seeeee…the guilt thing is there – i want to lean forward with B somehow make it better because my not reacting in the way he wanted me to has him feeling bad and I feel responsible – – – ugh ugh ugh – – – so I lean back and do nothing right?

  207.  #207Sophie on July 8, 2014 at 10:26 am

    Millie – Just BE it – I love that. I am trying to BE it right now. A woman who is in control of her own kingdom, a woman who values herself and expects others to value her too.

  208.  #208iris on July 8, 2014 at 10:29 am

    #209 @ Sophie, I am at this point where I don’t feel real. I’m in my head so much, wondering what I’m doing. Oftentimes, I feel the urgency to want to just feel fine. I feel like I want to jump out of my skin! I didn’t realize that I’ve been trying to fake a relaxed vibe. Sometimes I feel confused because I don’t know if I’m leaning back or withdrawing. It was after J told me he felt like there’s a wall between us that I started questioning it ALL, what I’m doing and where I’m coming from.

    #210 @ Indigo, I read Dominique’s blog about leaning back. Right now, I don’t know what feels good, or “right”. I want to trust myself, and I notice how much I was trying to fake it. It all just feels overwhelming.

  209.  #209Veronica on July 8, 2014 at 10:40 am

    Sophie -209 – With all that you’ve gone through, I think what you did was amazing. I see that you’re processing, is there any chance in your day today to take a time-out just to say wow to yourself?

  210.  #210Veronica on July 8, 2014 at 10:41 am

    Sophie – 212 – Aw thank you : ) x

  211.  #211Veronica on July 8, 2014 at 10:46 am

    Iris – 207 – How is the receiving of what he’s giving you going? I’m imagining you languishing in your leaning back enjoying the pleasure you get from receiving from your man.

    I recognize my own moments with trying to get into leaning back.

  212.  #212Veronica on July 8, 2014 at 10:57 am

    I feel overwhelmed now.

    OwlCD communicating via e-mail and the dating website. FrenchCD making a call today to set up a meeting and wanting to call tomorrow. BikeCD e-mailing and sending a fb friend request. FunnyCD replying. LawyerCD persisting – e-mailing and dating website convos. This was today.

    Breathe. I’m not used to this.

    I am taking my time responding though.

    I decided this morning to just let go of wanting things to work – ha, this is unexpected. Maybe I should say I’m going to let go *slowly*

  213.  #213Azure Blu on July 8, 2014 at 11:08 am

    YOU ARE a CDing goddess!!!
    i’m laughing reading all the names you have given them/

  214.  #214iris on July 8, 2014 at 11:10 am

    #218 @ Veronica, he used to give, give, give to me–call/text/do nice things–and not surprisingly, it felt awkward to me. Intimacy really makes me feel scared. (We’ve been together for 5 months now) Now, I notice his energy towards me is waning. It could be that he’s under a lot of stress–he got into a car accident 2 years ago and is finally going to court for it. Or he could be withdrawing because he felt the wall I was unconsciously putting up.

    So now, I’m in the leaning back/leaning forward tug-o-war, and it feels so awful right now! 🙁

  215.  #215Azure Blu on July 8, 2014 at 11:12 am

    I think I remember You’ve been listening to all the RR programs?

    I have found when i’ve been deep in processing too many emotions…
    I start swimming in my soup!!
    Maybe LOVE YOUR soup…
    Maybe give yourself a break and just BE for awhile…

  216.  #216Labbit on July 8, 2014 at 11:13 am

    I am feeling down right now. Is it true that the nasty voices become their loudest when you change old patterns? Because normally this is the part of a relationship where I’d chase after a man moving away from me. I don’t want to do that. Instead I’m doing the best I can to take care of myself, love myself and not think about him. It seems like every thought in my head is trying to beat me up today! I feel tired, exhausted, and it makes me just want to give up. I feel ugly and unwanted.

  217.  #217Sophie on July 8, 2014 at 11:15 am

    Veronica – I love all that energy coming towards you – yay! And yay, that you recognise slowly will feel good to you if you feel overwhelmed. I identify – I like to bolt when I feel overwhelmed but I need to learn to honour my own pace instead. But I love it – I want to clap all those men – well done them – they know a good woman when they see one:)

    And yes – thank you – I will say ‘wow’ to myself – it really has been wow! I thought when I quit my job over a year ago I’d find the serenity I so crave but it seems I still had a year plus of intensity to grow through…interesting though cos I feel like I’m being washed up on the shore ready for the next part of my dreams…I wasn’t ready but I am feeling more so like I am now…I feel trepidation but I feel the plan has momentum which won’t stop now…I am going to leave my home and my job and re-locate to the sun and sea…gulp…I have been working out when to hand in my notice, when to talk to the agents, what to store and what to take, searching for a housesit or lodgings with work…now I write it down though I feel the fear again…what if I don’t do it?! … I will I will

    Iris – I do remember sometimes feeling like that – losing myself in what I should be doing and whether I was doing things ‘right’ – everything is a process of experimentation though…do you see why he said it feels like there’s a wall?

  218.  #218Sophie on July 8, 2014 at 11:18 am

    Ah iris I understand a bit better now – is this the rubber-banding that Rori speaks of? Could you try just making you and your happiness the focus of your attention? Fill your diary up a bit with things that you love so that you’re not so worried about what he is or isn’t doing? Then you will know when he is ready to come towards you?

  219.  #219Azure Blu on July 8, 2014 at 11:22 am

    Wow Sophie, Spectacular Siren!!!
    You set and held YOUR boundary!!!

    That is giving YOU sooo much self respect and LOVE!!
    I noticed with me… as I began respecting MY boundaries…
    My self LOVE grew and grew!!!
    Looking back, it was Such a power shift with my bfs…

  220.  #220Sophie on July 8, 2014 at 11:24 am

    (((Labbitt)) I love the honesty with which you are feeling your feelings. And isn’t it great to be able to recognise them for what they are? Just nasty voices. Nasty voices that are not the truth. If you can just stay with that and recognise that they’re not the truth and love on yourself extra hard as an antidote – they will pass and there will be so much better waiting around the corner (that’s what I do and hope anyway).

  221.  #221iris on July 8, 2014 at 11:25 am

    #223 @ Labbit, I am feeling the SAME way right now, and yes, the Nasty Voice gets louder when you’re changing old patterns. As you can see from the threads, I’ve been watching all of the Rori videos, and as a result I feel anxious a lot–thinking about what I’ve done in the past, beating myself up, and thinking about what I’m gonna do. (Which is interesting, because all of that thinking is the old pattern I’m trying to break from. It’s like those old patterns are fighting even harder to be heard)

  222.  #222Sophie on July 8, 2014 at 11:28 am

    226 – Azure Blu – yes I feel smiley reading your post – I did and it has felt very very hard. It’s not over yet though. I have to keep it up. I agree though if (when) I do keep my boundaries I can feel my strength and self-confidence grow. I can do this, forever, in all areas of my life – yes!!!

  223.  #223iris on July 8, 2014 at 12:06 pm

    #222 @ Azure Blu, giving myself a break is a good idea! It’s tough because I’m in the same band as my boyfriend, so I see him almost everyday, and I feel triggered around him ALL OF THE TIME!

    #224 @ Sophie, yes, I can feel that wall…a wall between J and myself, and a wall around my heart. Right now I’m not doing anything. Just writing in a diary about what I’m feeling. I normally try to keep busy, but I see that I was just trying to distract myself. I feel like I need a couple of days or weeks of healing, standing still, and sinking into my painful emotions before I can move on.

  224.  #224Dominique on July 8, 2014 at 1:38 pm

    iris- 207 (Indigo – 210) – here are two articles which may help you.



  225.  #225Dominique on July 8, 2014 at 1:38 pm

  226.  #226Dominique on July 8, 2014 at 1:42 pm

    iris – 215 – if you’re unable to tell what feels right, how about looking at your intention instead. i.e. are you leaning forward in order to get something from him, a date, validation, a response of some sort, something, anything? or are you leaning forward simply because it feels good to you in the moment?


  227.  #227iris on July 8, 2014 at 1:54 pm

    #231 @ Dominique, thanks! I read your blog a lot, and came across these two. They were good reminders. I especially liked this part:

    “This can feel confusing which is why experimentation is SO useful. You get to experience for yourself what works in each situation or rather what makes YOU feel comfortable and happy. You can and will become very sensitive to the shifts in energy, eg. when there is too much leaning forward or too much leaning back going on, so you adjust accordingly.”

  228.  #228iris on July 8, 2014 at 1:56 pm

    #233 What I feel is urgency. I constantly feel anxious. And my intention, yes, I realize now I have expectations for how J is supposed to act, and how I think the relationship is supposed to look like. I don’t feel good that I do, but they are still a bad habit of mine. He can feel those expectations.

  229.  #229Dominique on July 8, 2014 at 3:16 pm

    iris – and that’s AMAZING awareness you just had with yourself, and with this awareness, everything can change. yay you!!!


  230.  #230sequoia on July 8, 2014 at 3:49 pm

    thank you Indigo for your feedback, all this helps a lot.

    G-Cd has been opening with sex-talk a lot and I am not sure if it would be a good idea to be straight and mention that I am not really open for a sexual adventures and
    that I have the feeling that I might not be the right women for what he wants.

    He started the day of with a message that he had a very sensual dream about us and we were messaging the whole day…his message becoming more and more sexual.
    It didn’t feel icky to me I was just surprised and I found some of it a bit full on and responded to it in a down-toning way, eg. that
    I need to feel a bit more connection to surrender and feel relaxed to go for what he suggests and that I would love to kiss for hours etc…
    but he didn’t seem to get it or he was not taking me seriously.

    Than he suggested to meet at my place on sat. evening, even so we agreed the last time I was in his shop that we would meet in a neutral place, maybe go for a walk etc.

    I felt very triggered by this and responded
    with No that I don’t want that and that we agreed that he would think of sthg. else.

    It would be our first date really, except the time I visited him in the shop.

    anyway he just kept saying that he thinks its a great idea as he want to kiss, caress and touch me…

    and I said that I want that too , but that I need a little bit more ‘Foreplay’ and connections first and that I feel a little disappointed as it seems like he doesn’t understand me or doesn’t seem to take me serious.

    we haven’t spoken much at all, I don’t really know him and I don’t want to just have sex.
    I am not sure if i should tell him.
    I have responded to his messages so and felt also aroused by them , which I expressed to him, but I also expressed that I am not open for certain things.

    I am realising that I am not 100% clear myself on the whole things, one part of me longs for a sexual connection and feels attracted to him and my body responds very strongly to his words, but another part longs for a true love connection- a proper relationship – and wants to wait.

    any feedback is very welcome from you sirens.

  231.  #231iris on July 8, 2014 at 3:51 pm

    #236 @ Dominique, what if I’m with my man, and I’m withdrawn–wondering what he’s thinking/feeling–and he asks what’s wrong?

  232.  #232Labbit on July 8, 2014 at 4:07 pm

    Sophie and Iris thank you, it is so nice to have sympathetic ears. I found an older post of Rori’s that I really like:

    I feel much better after trying it out, tucking this one in my back pocket to use again!

    sequoia 237 – I would feel uncomfortable in that situation too! If I were in your shoes, rather than say something directly to him at this point I’d remain curious and see how he actually acts on your date. Maybe this is just his way of lighting up some extra sparks beforehand. If his texts start getting too sexual you have the choice to stop responding — he might get the message that way! You lean back with an invitation for him to come forward with a message of a different kind. Of course if he crosses a boundary you should absolutely share your feelings as you’ve been doing with him. On your date you’ll likely know very quickly whether he’s interested in getting to know you or more interested in getting to know your body — neither is bad, it’s all up to what YOU want.

  233.  #233Dominique on July 8, 2014 at 4:08 pm

    Iris – How about being honest. eg. I feel really scared/awkward/anxious/weird/uncomfortable saying this, yet I don’t want to keep it inside myself, for this feels bad, like secrets, and I don’t want to have secrets with you. I’m feeling insecure, and all up n my head, making up stories. I don’t want to feel this way and certainly not with you. Can you help me with this?


  234.  #234iris on July 8, 2014 at 4:16 pm

    #239 Thanks, Dominique. An honest answer I can express! 🙂

  235.  #235Tereana on July 8, 2014 at 5:10 pm

    Sophie – (48) That’s great! I’m glad you have already gotten into that a little bit. You never really know where people are at. And Melanie Beattie is great. I’ll bet every group of CoDa is different. I went to a few, and my favorite was an all-women’s group. I felt much more comfortable sharing with them since we were talking so much about relationships and personal stuff. Anyway, I’m getting into my experience now…but I’m glad you felt inspired by my comments! (Or motivated, I think you said.) And it’s true – I really do hear a lot of strength in your writing. Keep going with that 🙂 You’re awesome!

  236.  #236Tereana on July 8, 2014 at 5:21 pm

    So, I don’t know that I really need to announce this, but I’ve been thinking lately that it’s probably about time to “graduate” myself from the blog. I’ve been here, checking in and writing on and off for at least four years – maybe even five?? Let’s say four and a half…that’s about 54 months. And my journey is by no means complete, relationship-wise. But I think that by now I have absorbed Rori’s principles and have incorporated them as best I can into my life and my practice, and will continue to do so.

    And because I don’t want to feel limited by Rori’s ideas. They are wonderful ideas, and have been so helpful in elevating me to be more able to “be myself” and – gasp – feel my feelings! That’s been one of the biggest gifts, if not the biggest gift of reading this blog. Before coming here, I don’t think I even knew enough about my feelings to know that I wasn’t feeling them! Oh, my goodness. It sounds so awful now. But it’s TRUE. It’s 100% true. And I remember how terrible it felt. And now, even if I do feel terrible, it’s actually wonderful, because I am FEELING the terrible. Lol. Isn’t that great???! haha

    And, I need to move on, because I have an opportunity to work closely with a coach, and it’s going to be a lot of intense, deep “clearing” work, and I really want to free my mental energy to do that.

    I will need to keep writing, though. Please, please, please, just hold me in your thoughts that I don’t let the writing go. One of these days, you may see my name in print. And you probably won’t know who I am, but perhaps my writing will remind you of Tereana from the blog ; )

    And so, it is with great fondness, that I will bid you a fond farewell. I may pop back in here and there. But hopefully I will be out living my life and better yet if I am spending my time being wonderful with another someone who is wonderful….


  237.  #237Melody on July 8, 2014 at 5:41 pm

    Hello all. I need help. Very long story, as short as possible.

    A friend recently helped me come out of an emotionally abusive relationship (Along with a therapist). I have one teenager (I’m in my early 50s).

    The friend has been seeing me through a malignant divorce.

    He and I eventually got to be more than friends. Our relationship is nearly 2 years old. Over the last several months, he has become moody; our relationship blows hot and cold; he will now sometimes tell me that he’ll call, and doesn’t. A couple of times I’ve asked him if he is trying to push me away. He always says “No.”

    He is 10 years my senior (but looks and acts near my age). He has told me, often, that he thinks I should have a younger man – and admitted at one point he worries I’ll leave him in an instant if I find a nice one (so it is almost like he’s trying to preempt a problem). He is also very concerned that my son will not accept him (he is a different race). Another long story – but that honestly should not be a problem.

    We had talked about putting our relationship off until the papers are signed, but, we both agreed that we don’t want to lose each other. Our phone calls have dropped off significantly (Maybe now once a day). We talked 4-5 times a day, at least, for over a year. He hasn’t told me he loves me in more than 2 weeks. He doesn’t say he misses me (“we talk on the phone!)

    The last time we got together, he told me he thought I should go out on a date !! Just one date, he said; just to see what it’s like (with someone else). I immediatley pulled away from him, but he immediatley put his hand on my knee and didn’t take it away the rest of the time. I asked him, “Just be honest with me; are you not that much into me anymore?” He said “No, I am very into you. You are just coming out of a horrendous relationship and growing into quite the woman. And I think you need to have that experience.”

    I know that he has friends that have nearly convinced him that I will dump him as soon as my divorce is finalized; that I am only using him for emotional support. I think he more than wonders if that is the case. I have made it plain that I am not that kind of person, I think though, that the fact that we have all this baggage that comes with our relationship has worn on him, including very restricted times and ways we had to see one another. See, I kind of *had* to social direct our relationship out of necessity.

    Ironically though, it’s just about to turn a corner to where we don’t have to be so restricted.

    I want to see him and tell him that what he wanted me to do hurt my feelings. I have only initiated one phone call in the last week. The rest have been from him although it has been gut-wrenching for me to not call him nearly at all.

    I’m afraid we are drifting apart. I don’t know what to do. My self-esteem is a LOT better, and I definitely use some of Rori’s techniques.

    But, my psychologist does thinks I should NOT hold off from calling him. And he is the one who thinks I should go see him and tell him how I feel about what he suggested.

    I just don’t know. I want to let him know how I feel – I think that is a boundary I need to set – and – I don’t want him to think he can walk all over me. He is a Steve Harvey fan, so …. I feel like I am walking a tight rope right now.


  238.  #238sequoia on July 8, 2014 at 6:00 pm

    Tereana I wish you all the best on your journey! And with your writing, may it just flow and flow!

    For me too Rori’s teachings on focusing on feeling ones feelings has been the greatest gift she is giving me/us.
    Feeling our feelings is really the only path to healing our core emotional wounds and shifting things forever.
    Not an easy journey so, it requires so much honesty with the self and also becoming aware of our addictions, and there is often such a fine line between needs and addictions esp. in relationships.

  239.  #239Linda on July 8, 2014 at 6:09 pm

    Every time I had a thought that popped up in me that did not line up with my decision I made. I said nope.. I am honoring my decision and you (thought) don’t support it. I feel so much clearer and relaxed. It almost feels like magic!


    The posts about leaning back and being up in your head.. walls etc. It took me a while to find my comfort zone in leaning back. It was super easy with CD’s. I NEVER initate only respond. I chose the stance of receiving and responding.

    In an established relationship.. there becomes a dance of the energies. It feels like it ebbs and flows. However, if I initiated and the energy did not flow back, I leaned back. If I initiated and noticed that I felt anxious. I leaned back again. Mostly I want that man to row and lead. If my guy were sick, I would most certainly check in on him, see if I can help him, not to show him that I am worth his attention.. but because it is in my heart to offer out of compassion and especially if they mentioned that they would like that. In a way that is still a lean back stance because you are responding to his invitation to you. Just sharing the place I have come to with leaning back and such.

  240.  #240Linda on July 8, 2014 at 6:14 pm

    Terena.. best wishes and deep happiness to you !

  241.  #241Dominique on July 8, 2014 at 6:54 pm

    Tereana – I will miss you. It has been such a joy to read your wonderful and insightful posts over the years. Wishing you everything you wish for and then some.

    Much love to you.


  242.  #242Liquid Light on July 8, 2014 at 8:26 pm

    Oh my gosh, Tereana, you will be missed!!! Good luck and please come back if you feel so inspired! I’ve loved reading your posts here and your encouraging words! You’ve made a difference!!! Best of luck with dating! I’m sure you will find what you are looking for!

    Big hugs,


  243.  #243Azure Blu on July 8, 2014 at 9:13 pm

    Thank you for all your wonderful words of Siren wisdom and encouragement!!
    And thank you for all the time you have taken to carefully read and respond to everyone over the years!!
    and the sharing of YOUR journey!!
    I am wishing you the best of everything!!!
    You will be missed!!
    Love to you!!

  244.  #244Mandy on July 8, 2014 at 9:13 pm

    Tereana, you will most certainly be missed. Good luck to you 🙂

  245.  #245Rori Raye on July 8, 2014 at 10:22 pm

    Melody – welcome, and Steve Harvey is GREAT! My advice would be to check out one or all of my Certified Coaches – to get a second opinion and some practical help in navigating this. This man doesn’t seem to be “gone” – so my guess is – if you’re able to shift your “vibe” – and the vibe of the relationship – all will be well. Also – if you Circular Date – that shouldn’t “end” it with him! Lots of possibilities here – go look at my Certified Coach Directory over in the sidebar on the right…Love, Rori

  246.  #246Veronica on July 9, 2014 at 12:23 am

    Azure Blu – 220 – Ha ha yeah I hadn’t had time to come up with names. Thank you xx

  247.  #247Veronica on July 9, 2014 at 12:24 am

    Iris – 221 – ((((Iris)))) I agree with what Dominique said (233). And you do have a beautiful self-awareness.

  248.  #248Zia on July 9, 2014 at 12:24 am

    Kim 211 – Sit with those feelings. Anxious is usually due to trying to not allow certain feelings to come up. It comes from trying to avoid feeling. So, maybe just sit with it and see what feelings come up, and let them x

  249.  #249Veronica on July 9, 2014 at 12:24 am

    Sophie – 224 – Oh yes, I want to bolt too when I feel overwhelmed – I had to sit with it and I realize that I feel scared of men being interested in me. But they’re good men so I feel safer with sitting with my scared and overwhelm feelings. Aw thank you so much for your supportive words, I appreciate it.

    I was speaking to an artist once, an absolute gentleman, and he told me that one is never really ready. Lol, that fear – it sounds like that kind of fear before one steps into something new. Is it possible to use the fear to take care of yourself? I’m asking for myself too. Ha it sounds like your masculine energy can’t wait to sort out things for the next part of your dream/s. All the best and I hope you find your serenity at the sun and sea place. xx

  250.  #250Veronica on July 9, 2014 at 12:25 am

    Tereana – Good luck and thank you for sharing so generously here. I look forward to seeing you here when you drop in. xx

  251.  #251Mandy on July 9, 2014 at 12:42 am

    Whoa just totally felt triggered when J helped a college girl with her stuff up the stairs. Her mom asked him to right in front of me, lol.

    I sat outside and waited but then realized I didn’t like the feeling of waiting so I calmly went back inside and got on my computer, as I like to do when I have me time.

    Not sure why I felt nervous, it just felt awkward and I didn’t want anyone thinking I was left out or that I was watching and caring or anything.

    Weird. I don’t feel jealous so much as just triggered in general. Just sort of like, a social anxiety situation where i just feel awkward and in the middle of something…I mean, no one asked for my help…

    I guess I felt bad no one asked for my help, lol. That is weird because she was like “we need some muscle” and I was thinking, I’m muscle, lol I have been working out, but no they want a handsome man to help, not a beautiful woman in shorts sitting on her porch watching the lighting storm in all her glory, lol…

    How weird! I will emotionally…roll it around a bit inside and see if I don’t have some epiphany.

    This blog is great for a sounding board…just brilliant.

  252.  #252Mandy on July 9, 2014 at 1:08 am

    PS – Just finished watching House MD all the way through (boy is his character human, and toxic, yet loveable.) and I was paying attention to the lead female character, Cuddy. I noticed how she felt icky when House was smothering her. I feel that way sometimes. I know how she feels.

    Then when he was getting massages from someone he had sex with before, she told him to stop or she won’t see him anymore. Nicely done.

    I like her. She’s strong and independent yet she smiles in her eyes when she looks at him and tells him he makes her happy.

    I also like her take-charge attitude of being a single mom because she really wanted it. 🙂

  253.  #253Indigo on July 9, 2014 at 1:35 am

    A very fond farewell, Tereana. Sending you on butterfly wings covered in fairy dust!

    I feel that I know exactly what you are saying, and I wish you all the very best.


  254.  #254Indigo on July 9, 2014 at 5:24 am


    “he used to give, give, give to me–call/text/do nice things–and not surprisingly, it felt awkward to me. Intimacy really makes me feel scared. (We’ve been together for 5 months now) Now, I notice his energy towards me is waning.”

    If it’s any consolation, I believe this is very common around the 4 – 6 month mark, and I have experienced it myself. You become more real, your masks drop, the novelty of romance starts to give way to more serious thoughts. My advice would be to talk and feel it through with him. Experiment with how it feels to give to him or go towards him, and then to back off a bit if it feels too much. Experiment with a flow.


  255.  #255Indigo on July 9, 2014 at 5:32 am


    “Is it true that the nasty voices become their loudest when you change old patterns?”

    YES. For me when I’m going through a growth period and just before I have some kind of healing breakthrough, I feel icky – either defeatist, like what’s the point of it all anyway, unloveable or down on myself, and sometimes an out and out downturn with many tears, definitely not sireny or goddessy. In a way, I’ve learned to welcome it, as bad as it feels, because sunshine is the next thing to come.

  256.  #256Labbit on July 9, 2014 at 8:02 am

    I left a comment last night but it seems to have been eaten, so apologies if a similar duplicate soon appears!

    Sophie, Iris & Indigo — thank you all. It’s such a relief to have a place to share feelings and be embraced for them. It feels good!

    sequoia 237 — It sounds to me like you are handling the situation very well, sharing your feelings and giving him an opportunity to step up and make you feel good! If his texts start getting too sexual you always have the choice to stop responding, which would then give him the space and a chance to change the subject on his own.

    Don’t lay any expectations for your date. Just stay curious, lean back, be an invitation and see how he acts. It’s all about how YOU feel in his presence — it may be that he’s a bit of a clod and making sexual innuendos is the only way he knows to share that he’s interested. He might warm right up into a gentleman on your date! Or if he remains locked into a sexual train of thought sharing your feelings in person will get the point across much more quickly about what you’re comfortable/uncomfortable with. Kissing, touching, that all sounds great to me. If it goes to far you can always set your boundaries. You have the power here, and the choice to stay or go.

  257.  #257Indigo on July 9, 2014 at 9:03 am

    Just had to share these gorgeous lyrics from Enya,

    “Look to love you may dream,
    And if it should leave then give it wings.
    But if such a love is meant to be;
    Hope is home, and the heart is free.”

  258.  #258Sophie on July 9, 2014 at 9:54 am

    Good luck on your journey Tereana! I can’t wait until you pop back and give us all an update 🙂 Thank you for all your wisdom, sharing and support on here xxx

  259.  #259Sophie on July 9, 2014 at 10:03 am

    How lovely Indigo 🙂

  260.  #260iris on July 9, 2014 at 10:34 am

    #253 @ Veronica
    #260 @ Indigo
    @ Dominique

    Ladies, thanks your help. I had been feeling sick for months, and it’s because I haven’t been authentic with J. Intimacy really made me feel scared, so I watched the RR videos to equip myself knowledge. And although I learned A LOT, and I still practice the tools, I realized that I was still disconnected from my heart. I was always thinking of what I was doing/saying, and if it was “right.” The tools are useless unless the vibe is there.

    I have done my best to lean FAR back, but as a result, I never learned the limits of moving forward. I have yet to know how much is too much giving to J. I feel much more relaxed knowing that sometimes the answer is simply to be myself.

    Thanks again, Sirens, for hearing me out 🙂

  261.  #261Tam on July 9, 2014 at 11:32 am

    Zia thank you.
    As it turned out everything was fine apart from the first half hour, when we were both really nervous and anxious, I could feel just the same vibe coming from him.
    Our date was gate-crashed by his friends, as happened before and I am not sure whether I like it, partly yes and partly I also think it’s weird to spend two our of three dates ‘hanging out’ with his buddies. I hardly know these people and he just invited them to my condo yesterday…without consulting me first.
    The evening was really lovely, but I had already prepared food I had to re-freeze etc. We had a talk about it, he got the point.
    I really like the guy and must say the last time anyone was so into me is probably 15 years ago, and I mean genuinely into me, not pretending or needy (I had made those experiences with other guys).
    He is just really out of my comfort zone, not educated, not really ambitious, and at almost 40 envisages living in a house share with his friends…and I just think ‘ugh’, because I am about a million light-years ahead of that. I just can’t see this developing into anything serious.
    He is so sweet and open and his friends tell me that he talks about me all the time..I never really had that experience. We waited quite some time to be intimate, and even this he told everybody including his Mom (!)…lol…he even brought up that he wants me to meet his parents and is looking for someone for the rest of his life and not just another short lived thing yada yada.
    So all perfect except the way I feel about it. We don’t have much in common and I think this is going to blow over and my particular challenge to myself is to stay open and enjoy it while it lasts, moment by moment, not expecting much and not get frustrated when things don’t go my way.
    Here for once I have a total step-up man who just doesn’t really fit with my lifestyle, but rather the lifestyle of maybe a college student.
    Kinda sucks.
    However, he is really hot and cute and fun, so I am just going to enjoy it for what it is.
    Period 🙂

  262.  #262Kim on July 9, 2014 at 11:33 am

    so the name change didn’t work then lol

  263.  #263Azure Blu on July 9, 2014 at 12:45 pm

    I think Rori said this… found it in my archives…

    “Perhaps fear and obsession are just clues to healing,
    and don’t really need “fixing.”
    When I want to “fix’ something –
    it feels like I want to “stop” something that’s going wrong for me.
    Perhaps a better word for me would be “adjust.” or “tweak.” This way I stay in the process
    instead of trying to follow instructions
    to get me to an end point.
    Basic truth for me is this: 
    If whatever’s going on in my system
    has created what now needs “fixing,”
    my brain, and my system as it is now,
    are not going to necessarily do such a great job getting me “fixed.”

    There has to be a sidestep, here.

    And I’m going to just call this – “release.”
    If I can just – if we can just – if you can just –
    allow yourself to feel pain only as a clue,
    and then just go toward releasing your hold
    on that pain and your focus on that pain as something to be “fixed” – the process of healing
    can begin.
    The moment you stop looking at yourself as “broken,”
    or “wounded,”
    or “the blame-taker or blame giver” –
    the sooner you can fall into the process
    of healing and experience what occurs.

    Experiment and explore the possibilities
    of accepting it all
    and trying something new
    whenever an idea comes to you.
    See what feels good.
    Make peace with what feels bad.
    Own it all as your life enfolding and
    unfolding and unraveling and evolving.
    All of it.”

  264.  #264Azure Blu on July 9, 2014 at 1:01 pm

    Your name change seems to work off and on???

    Mmmmm… he does sound like a college kid…
    How fun BUT not…

    I understand what you are going through…
    My last CD – MN – had alllll these qualities I really enjoyed experiencing and he really liked me AND wanted a forever relationship…
    BUT his reserved and draining personality was NOT
    what I want for my forever man…
    I stayed until dates became dreaded and I had to let him go… :~{

  265.  #265Azure Blu on July 9, 2014 at 1:05 pm

    Ahhhh BUT do enjoy…
    Hot and fun and cute!!!

  266.  #266Indigo on July 9, 2014 at 1:16 pm


    What a lovely open approach you have to this all and to this man…

  267.  #267Daria on July 9, 2014 at 1:52 pm

    uh i feel unsafe now after what i last wrote

    i feel scared and tightened up inside, under myheart

    and i feel pist

    i want to come and write aobut feeling PIST!

    i want to sweep the table with my right arm

    i feel angry

    i want to feel safe and have my ‘space’ to do so!

    i feel all sad now i love my sadness

    thank you Daria

  268.  #268Kim on July 9, 2014 at 2:07 pm

    Azure Blu and Indigo thank you.
    I feel heard 🙂
    I also decided to experiment because I do feel safe with this guy, he is not the type to run or poof. I told him that the way things went yesterday felt a little bad and I had felt cornered (by him asking everybody to my place..on our 4th or 5th date lol). I have not had an answer yet but I decided to lay it out there.
    I also said that I liked him (he said it to me many times), and respect him and feel better being honest and open about these things right from the start.
    Historically, I say nothing, smile and bottle it all up until the volcano erupts.
    I want to try something different with this boy because I do not care whether I lose him or not.
    The college kid lifestyle is indeed a major turn off for me, but who knows what will happen. Compromise is important, and maybe we will both change a little. He is making me feel quite carefree again, like I am a teenager, but you know, deep down I know it can’t be sustained as I prefer stability over this.
    But yes, he is the typical Florida blue eyed, blonde, dishy bulky huhk I always wanted. I feel smug about this, because everytime I met one previously, they were players or not wanting to commit. This one is really different and I am going to enjoy every minute of it until its over – or not.

  269.  #269Azure Blu on July 9, 2014 at 6:27 pm

    Love this… “over…. or NOT”
    I can feel that you’re opening your heart for surprises!!!
    That feels like YOU LOVING YOU!!!

  270.  #270Labbit on July 9, 2014 at 7:07 pm

    The universe seems to really be putting me through my paces right now! Tonight I ran into a former CD at the gym. He was coming out of a class as I was going in; it was unavoidable that we’d see each other. We had a perfectly pleasant chat though I am pretty sure I forgot to use feeling messages…I did remember to lean back.

    Inside, I felt all twisted up in knots even though I’d ended things with him. As we were talking I felt a desire to bring him into my cage and make him mine. I felt a need to chase after him, to prove my worthiness to him and get his approval. Then I felt a gentle urge to let go of him…I opened up my hands and flipped my palms, relaxing. My thoughts raced after we parted. I painted myself with love. I dropped into my body and into the now. During my class if my thoughts went to him I brought myself back into the now.

    Even now part of me is so tempted to reach out him. (I won’t.) When I catch my thoughts they are of cute texts I could send him or an email I could write. I feel silly. I want a man who will cherish me, who will treat me well. I am an invitation. I don’t need to chase. I feel good leaning back. There are other CDs coming forward towards me. I move towards what feels good.

  271.  #271Kim on July 9, 2014 at 8:03 pm

    275 thanks Azure Blu, I get the same vibe from your posts!!

    Actually, it is a mix of self protection and staying open and knowing what works for me. I still get the normal jitters but it gets easier 🙂

    Now I have to navigate some kind of exclusivity issue as things are heating up and I am not going to be one in a rotation. I am pretty sure that I am not, but I need to be 100% sure, else I don’t get intimate with anyone..so…sigh. Lol.
    A little work amongst the fun lol

  272.  #272Veronica on July 10, 2014 at 12:49 am

    Kim – I feel curious as to where this will go for you. I feel excited for you.

  273.  #273Veronica on July 10, 2014 at 12:55 am

    I feel tiny rage at remnants of BM memories. I’m getting clearer on why I don’t want to be in that place and at the same time realising with much humour that I’m not rage-ful at him or the memories but that fierce love is wanting to pitch up. Thank you rage.

  274.  #274Azure Blu on July 10, 2014 at 4:22 am

    I feel curious and confused…
    What last post are you writing about?
    Indigo #148 was fine….

  275.  #275Kim on July 10, 2014 at 6:00 am

    I feel excited too. Even with my reservations.
    It just feels so nice and I haven’t felt a guy that ‘into me’ for about 15 years, shock horror. Different types of men, I dated a lot, but not so innocemtly happy to see me and just hug and kiss me anywhere, even in a place full of people.
    So cute.
    I don’t even care where it goes, it reminds me of what I want, and need, and I am such a loner in many ways, if I can’t have that in my life, I will be fine alone. Never settle for second best, only now I realise that the last two guys I dated felt stilted and forced and that the reason things were not progressing are now clear to see.
    It’s a learning curve, and not linear, but very interesting.
    I can only say to all those trying to shape themselves into a pretzel to keep a man, it won’t work anyway.
    It shouldn’t be so hard.

  276.  #276Kim on July 10, 2014 at 6:03 am

    The interesting thing is that this one doesn’t run when I state my boundaries. He pulls back for a bit (hours, not days), and then says that he understands, and then lays out his viewpoint, or says ‘let’s talk in person about this’.
    It’s just easy.
    The lifestyle questions will be what probably makes this impossible, but it’s just great to still be able to meet guys that Have no major baggage (kids, ex wives), and no resulting mental thing and are closed off or bitter., or needy. Makes a huge difference, pretty rare at my age (38)….

  277.  #277Azure Blu on July 10, 2014 at 6:04 am

    Kim…Ahhh… how lovely!!!
    Yes… such a good reminder…
    It shouldn’t be sooo hard!!!
    Easy breezy

  278.  #278Azure Blu on July 10, 2014 at 6:11 am

    LOL “no baggage, pretty rare at my age, 38”
    I’m giggling
    you can only imagine alllllll of the baggage we alll have at MY age… 62

  279.  #279Kim on July 10, 2014 at 6:26 am

    Wow Azure Blu, you sound much younger.. 🙂
    I have to tell you though, I feel we all have baggage. I have it too from past disappointments etc. maybe we can look at it as ‘lessons’.
    Just feels so much easier without kids/ex wives etc. though there is always a reason why we, at our age haven’t ever gotten married yet etc. I believe.
    So well….

  280.  #280nyx on July 10, 2014 at 7:17 am


    Lifestyle isn’t that hard to change- or change back and forth, (as in owning a house but going for looooong surfervacations?) and i daresay both you and him seem to be intelligent and flexible.

    If you two feel you want to stay with each other, I bet you can work something out, even if it won’t necessarily look like the average life 😉

  281.  #281Kim on July 10, 2014 at 7:29 am

    Nyx, thank you for talking sense into me 😉
    Actually, quite right too.
    Although I see a lot of major differences and believe a similar lifestyle etc is something important, you are right, nothing is set in concrete.
    Maybe I am just in fear mode and excuse it with all this…hmm

  282.  #282K on July 10, 2014 at 9:12 am

    Hi Rori, I see I have always leaned forward in relationships and also I have a fear of intimacy. I’m outgoing and mostly easy to talk to, however, I have been afraid to let dates see who I am, to let myself be vulnerable.

    I’m dating regularly, looking for the one to marry and create a family with. My fear of sharing and commitment has earlier pushed a man I loved (a friend who is now married) away because I tend to lean forward because of my fear. But about a year ago I met this other guy in a non-dating environment, whom I feel very attracted to, which doesn’t happen often, though I do meet quit a few men. At first this guy took all the initiative, and I was relaxed around him, things developed just fine, I followed his lead, until the possibility was there just in front of me. My fear of intimacy made me close down, and I didn’t communicate any feeling messages in the situation. He slowly moved away from me. After some time passed, in frustration with myself, I made the mistake to tell him directly how I felt – no feeling message though. He told me he did feel attracted in the beginning, but now he sees me as a friend and cannot feel the chemistry between us. We are still in each other’s lives and we like and respect each other and communicate well in so many ways, but I have never tried using feeling messages deliberately.

    Lately I have a sense of something changing in him when I am with him and he calls me, but he is not making a move. I don’t know if he could be the one, but I’m still curious about if we could be good together and if this new knowledge about feeling messages could bring back our flow. I would like to be able to share my feelings with him WHILE I’m still dating other guys. My intention is to do now what I wish I could have done earlier, go with the flow (follow his lead!) and see what happens. I have the power to change my own input in our relation. I will try to use my knowledge with new dates, but is it too late to give it a try with this guy using your tools, and how should I go about it? And how can I do it and still be leaning back? Thank you! Love, K

  283.  #283IamHis on July 10, 2014 at 9:19 am

    Wow…I feel trembly. I’ve been working with a professional counselor and have recently discovered that I have a Narcisstic Mother.

    I was in denial at first, but now that it’s all sinking in…I feel so much!

    Grief, anger, loss, rage.

    I always had trouble expressing my feelings when I was younger, especially my negative feelings…I wasn’t allowed to, after all!

    It’s all making so much sense!

    …I feel so cold and sad.

  284.  #284Kim on July 10, 2014 at 10:06 am

    So sorry 🙁
    But you are not alone. There are many of us. With clarity it is possible to overcome these issues and rise up like a Phoebix from the ashes 🙂
    Just like you, I was never allowed to be sad, angry and all those things. I was supposed to sit in the corner and never open my mouth. And I did and I still do.
    But you can learn, better late than never, and better to be aware than to sit in the dark.
    You’ll get there.

  285.  #285Azure Blu on July 10, 2014 at 10:35 am

    How wonderful to hear I sound younger than my age!!!

    I’ve always looked and acted younger… No reason to be too frumpy and serious, right??? :->

  286.  #286Azure Blu on July 10, 2014 at 10:43 am

    Ahhh, yes. The Narcissistic mother…
    I remember when my therapist mentioned that to me…

    I think the reason I denied this was because it is the EXACT opposite of my fantasy of what “motherhood” is.
    AND then realizing what SHE called “love” is NOT what I want in my life from friends, children, spouses, boyfreinds, animals etc…!!
    Which when I was younger was EXACTLY who I was choosing…
    Men & friends who were, cold, self centered, and NEVER had Mine or our families best interest at heart!!!
    Different now…YAY… Rori’s tools are just another part of my puzzle to a happy ever after -(day by day)

  287.  #287Kim on July 10, 2014 at 10:43 am

    Azure Blu, couldn’t agree more. Inspiration!

  288.  #288Kim on July 10, 2014 at 10:48 am

    I have been having the weirdest day. Nervous, on edge with my job situation and maybe having to leave here.

    Wild child did a pull back and didn’t confirm a date we loosely set for tonight. Honestly, that’s fine with me on many levels, and it silences my thoughts and fears a bit but also leaves me feeling unsettled.

    To top it all off, MrP has been all over me. 4 years and he still doesn’t give up, says he missed my mind and body and wanted to come round tonight after I told him how discombobuoated I felt about my situation. I just need to snip my fingers. No no. I said no.
    But, really, when I am having interactions with him, more and more, I need to quench them before they get too much.
    It is just heartbreaking when you know someone loves you but it could never work.
    So I don’t go there anymore.
    Not even in thoughts.

  289.  #289Azure Blu on July 10, 2014 at 11:01 am

    Uncertainty about your job is VERY fear inducing….

    Did you read the post #269?
    Not sure if it’s any help??

    Wow… I feel surprised about wildman’s no confirmation…
    You have been very careful to simply enjoy the NOW with him and see what happens…
    YOU are such a SIREN!!!

  290.  #290Indigo on July 10, 2014 at 11:09 am


  291.  #291Kim on July 10, 2014 at 11:51 am

    Thanks Ladies. Meh.
    Actually, he must have picked up on the vibes and sent me a text saying he misses me but he is very busy with work. At this point that’s ok with me. I feel like eating the food alone and just watching a movie anyway, he will probably do a last minute ‘let’s hang out’, but that is the whole thing I don’t feel comfy with, this juvenile way of arranging to meet and stuff.
    I just like to know in advance.
    So it will be a no from me anyway.
    He hasn’t booked me for the weekend either and I have said ‘yes’ to go to a birthday party. He invites me to everything, but since he didn’t mention the weekend and this is an old CD, I would not want to invite him.
    He’ll probably be miffed but not my problem, if he had mentioned the weekend it might have been different.

    Yes, Azure Blu, I loooved your post.
    In fact, I shall do the little work I still have right now, go for a run and then read some stuff and maybe a bit of Abraham HICKS too, maybe a little meditation.

    I feel very discombobulated.
    Thanks ladies 🙂

  292.  #292Mandy on July 10, 2014 at 2:23 pm

    I feel discombobulated too Kim. I love that word. But I really do.

    I have OCD issues, and I tend to obsess when I can’t figure something out. Very masculine. Not that having a strong boy-side is bad, trust me, it protects my girl side like you wouldn’t believe and pulls me out of tough situations!

    But, I just re-read an email from Rori stating that if you are doing chasing, chasing your guy and don’t even know it, there could be problems. I absolutely feel like I’m chasing him, and that my sex life is being controlled by him, and I feel stifled and controlled when I think on it too much and the anger just builds up inside me and I start acting like a brat. Not cool.

    We have date night, and kiss and hug all the time, but when I dialed it WAY back the past two nights, he practically jumped to pay attention to me. I just felt like I wasn’t getting any attention and so I sort of displayed emotion, which he senses very easily (he is very in tune with my emotions, so much so that if I feel an inkling of emotion, it is practically tattooed on my forehead.) He just jumps to the rescue, holds my hand and sits by be, and holds me or gives me a neck rub, and he says he doesn’t enjoy giving neck rubs…

    So When I try real hard to dial it back, it happens…but what about the trying hard part? Wouldn’t the Chinese proverb “Try softer” work with being feminine? I think so, I don’t think I have to put on a dramatic display.

    A friend told me she thinks J is the one, but I think differently than she does. I don’t think there’s just one person for a person. Also, I don’t really believe I need marriage to feel secure, and also I don’t want children; she desperately wants these things for me, because she has them and feels I’m missing out on life. I feel like I’m missing out because I’m 33 and not necessarily having fun, not because I don’t have marriage or kids. I am adamant about this.

    And sometimes writing this out is great because I need to hear myself say things like this, when I give my thoughts to a friend I say, I’d do this, you know, and when I’m in my own head flooded with emotion, I just am confused as hell, because emotion is not logical.

    Try softer…breathe…feel the air around you….sip your coffee…listen to music….feel it…

  293.  #293Kim on July 10, 2014 at 2:27 pm

    Mandy – you sound great actually! Very aware!
    If you feel like you are chasing, then I guess your vibe is off, wven if you are not necessarily doing anything…nothing wrong. I would do exactly the same, turn my attention to myself amd stuff around me.
    I struggle with it too, don’t we all?

  294.  #294Mandy on July 10, 2014 at 2:55 pm

    Sure, I bet we all do! You know, the rat-race, getting groceries, cleaning up, watching kids…very take-charge stuff. It feels wonderful to hear you feel I’m doing okay. Sometimes it’s tough for me to see clearly through everything. Thank you Kim. 🙂

  295.  #295nyx on July 10, 2014 at 2:56 pm


    Fear mode? I myself run like a frightened rabbit when someone seems into me too quickly, so…

    But it is easy to be calm from a safe distance (as in commenting on other’s dates, haha) and to me, wildchild seems like he is displaying such good things via is actions. I myself would appreciate him not having three kids already with two different women 😉 also not conforming to what is seen as “normal”. Stability comes from the inside of a person. (One of the most lovely things I’ve ever read about that is “The invitation” by Oriah)
    But advice from my grandmother: “the most important thing is that he is willing to work.” (Not as in “never unemployed a day in his life” but as in always wanting to have a job.)

    I’m babbling… but before I stop, I have to say I am so impressed by you, Kim, because you are giving a person a chance, and you are challenging your own attitude and thoughts. Noone is stronger than that. 🙂

    I wish you everything good 🙂

  296.  #296Kim on July 10, 2014 at 3:27 pm

    Hey Nyx!
    Thank you. Such a nice comment and absolutely true.
    About the work etc. he is keeping himself and that is basically all I need. I could not feed a man but he seems to be doing ok.
    Anyway, he’s pulled back and I might not see much of him this weekend as I have one CD’s birthday and another one is wanting to watch the football. I said yes to both and do feel a bit disappointed that he didn’t try to make advance plans for the weekend. I knkw he thinks I have nothing going on.
    Oh well 🙂
    I also feel bored by men doing a pull back after intimacy…it’s the kind of thing that is very common but it just makes me want to yawn.
    I dated so so much in the last few years, and yeah, I do actually stay open to all kinds of men, but my tolerance for things is going down a bit, and I let a lot of men go also.
    And never looked back, really.
    So if he is pulling back already, he might find himself out of the race quicker than he thought.
    That together with untagging himself of a photo his friend posted of us on fb, together with the phone always head down so nobody can see his text messages, and the pull back, is already enough to have me feel very blah.
    The one thing he had going for him was that he was so sweet and attentive and had lots of contact with me. So if that is not happening (one blah text message a day and a botched date tonight), I see no point to continue dating him and his friends lol.

  297.  #297Azure Blu on July 10, 2014 at 3:58 pm

    Kim #301…
    Yep… me too… much CDing in the past year and half…
    I know what I will tolerate… one guy I dated and was exclusive with for 4 months… started that stuff…
    I stayed connected… and simply watched…
    He stopped calling when he said he would…started talking rather rudely to me and then disappeared for 5 weeks!!!! Came back and said… You’re the best, never met anyone like you… I can be myself BUT better… You are one of the sweets, kindest people I’ve ever met…
    I was totally SURPRISED!!
    But NOOOO!!!
    treat me sooo disrespectfully…
    I had an intuition that this is how he conducts his relationships…
    Sooo… I said I won’t date someone who does this…

    Before RR, I would have taken him back… chased after him when he started disappearing again…
    and think there was something wrong with ME!!
    Mmmmm… I feel calm, happy and excited to meet
    My forever man!!!
    feeling a little lonely for kisses though…

  298.  #298Kim on July 10, 2014 at 4:05 pm

    Azure Blu, good for you! These people rarely change and what he did would not have been acceptable for me either.
    Yeah, befire Rori I tolerated all sorts, and even thought sokething was wrong with me when they pulled back.
    No more.
    If they pull back and disappear, I wave them bye bye! And thank them for making space for someone better! 🙂

  299.  #299Veronica on July 10, 2014 at 5:59 pm

    I’m starting to enjoy talking to older men. I think FunnyCD is one of the older men in the rotation (older than me, not old, most of the CDs have been younger) and what a relief – he sets up a meeting and suggests a place that suits my needs – I like this sooo much, especially how this was done. I feel attracted to that. Up until now I’ve had to suggest an area, sometimes suggest where to eat and that feels like work to me (and also I get less chance of knowing what he’s about, what his tastes are, how he leads).

  300.  #300Rori Raye on July 10, 2014 at 6:00 pm

    k – welcome, and in two months time – I’ll have my Trainee coaches for you to take free sessions with – and right now – you can try out one or all of my Certified Rori Raye Coaches (Directory is over in the sidebar on the right….) – You are ALWAYS practicing! Just practice on this man and all men you Circular Date. The right man for you will “stick.” No effort involved. YOU are the prize! Love, Rori

  301.  #301Liquid Light on July 10, 2014 at 6:21 pm

    I feel like I’m in survival mode and have been for a while. I’m just trying to keep my head above water at work, most of the time I’m totally stressed and intimidated. Its been a long time since I worked full-time in a corporate environment and I feel like a fish out of water. And everyone around me seems so competent and relaxed, and amazing at what they do, and I really don’t know if I will be able to handle it. Every other minute, I want to quit. Ughh. So it just feels like I’m going through the motions, trying to survive, trying not to screw up. Life just feels like drudgery right now and has ever since I moved here. I really miss my relationship and feel pathetic saying that because it was a year and a half ago that it ended. But I miss the good times, and the companionship and support. I just can’t find anyone that I’m excited about. Its all so depressing.

  302.  #302Kim on July 10, 2014 at 6:29 pm

    Liquid Light ugh, so sorry 🙁

  303.  #303Azure Blu on July 10, 2014 at 9:22 pm

    I know you were soooo looking forward to this new job!!!
    They wouldn’t have hired you if they didn’t think you were the right person for the job!!
    Lovely Siren… you are going through some major NEW changes right now…
    New job,
    New apt.
    The weekend is coming up… you might need to slather yourself with LOVE and maybe a manicure & massage…?

  304.  #304Azure Blu on July 10, 2014 at 9:31 pm

    Welcome siren,
    Like Rori mentioned… YOU are the Prize…
    You sound like you are doing great by CDing and working on feeling messages…
    It took me awhile (and I still struggle) to use feeling messages…
    For me the important things are to begin learning WHAT MY feelings are… Sit back and observe me while I’m CDing…
    Each day, learning about ME and Loving ME!

  305.  #305Azure Blu on July 10, 2014 at 9:36 pm

    Veronica #305…
    Lovely Siren,
    I feel warm, and smiley reading your post about Funnycd.
    I feel a shift in how you are reacting to these cds.
    How you are observing yourself and your heart while in their presence…
    Mmmmm… sooo much self LOVE…
    This feels very powerful.

  306.  #306Veronica on July 10, 2014 at 10:31 pm

    Azure Blu – 311 – You notice the shift – yay and thank you : ) Although it seems like a long time ago, how I was in February and how I am now seem quite different. I feel relieved to have a man have such a good plan to meet – it’s easier to be a siren. It’s easier to let go and watch him do. Having a few men in rotation makes it easier to notice the difference in feeling. I met FrenchCD for lunch and had those feelings and then chatted with FunnyCD – different vibe in myself.

    I enjoy your enthusiastic energy here : )

  307.  #307Indigo on July 10, 2014 at 11:49 pm

    There’s this guy whom I’ve been on a few dates with, I’ve spoken about him here, J. It’s odd, because he’s consistent, yet there doesn’t seem to be any momentum to it. We’ve had 4 dates, the last one was 2 weeks ago – yesterday he phoned me and wants to set something up for next weekend, which would make it 3 weeks between our last date and our next. He’s perfectly sweet when he does call, asks how I am, asks about things that have been happening in my life, but he only calls when he wants to set up a date, and in between I hear very little from him aside from the odd text. It makes me feel rather uninspired.

    On our dates he’s a perfect gentleman, he picks me up, pays for everything, but sometimes I feel like he’s barely listening to what I’m saying, and I feel a glaring lack of understanding or connection. He’s one of these pleasant, mellow, everything’s-A-ok sorts, and I’m more of a deeper person.

    I don’t know whether it’s worth it to continue dating him. I feel like there’s very little point, but I suppose if I don’t feel invested there’s no reason to stop going on outings with him? Things don’t seem to be heading to any sort of exclusivity, they’re so slow in fact that I have no idea what we’re actually doing, but maybe that’s not a bad thing.

  308.  #308Indigo on July 11, 2014 at 12:02 am


    “I also feel bored by men doing a pull back after intimacy…it’s the kind of thing that is very common but it just makes me want to yawn.”

    YES. When it’s accompanied by petulantly disregarding your feelings or needs, there’s something about it which feels very self-involved, and, well, selfish to me. Maybe I feel a bit triggered, but there’s something about this behavior which kind of feels, “the hell with how you’re feeling, this is too much for me and so I’m going to pull back.”

    I agree. Very yawn-worthy.

  309.  #309Indigo on July 11, 2014 at 12:03 am

    (((Liquid Light)))

    With all the changes that have happened in your life, it is so normal to feel overwhelmed. Give yourself time. Be good to yourself.

  310.  #310Sophie on July 11, 2014 at 12:09 am

    I feel empowered listening to your conversations ladies – especially about your CD experiences

    I felt intrigued Kim and Azure Blu on your zero tolerance to the pull back – it was like ‘ding – light bulb! – ah I don’t have to stick with that’

    Also, the way that you have all experienced the experimenting with how you feel with different men – I can see the shift in your vibe too Veronica and the lovely thing is it seems it feels more enjoyable for you? And safer perhaps?

    I felt pleased to meet a man yesterday who was gorgeous and seemed to have a lot going for him as in all the things I ‘should’ be attracted to – his own ethical business, a yoga practitioner, and…oh did I mention gorgeous?! I felt quite speechless and flustered and he didn’t have any bravado – he just seemed really humble. It allowed me a taste of seeing that there are other men out there, there are options, and there are men that I will find attractive that are far away from my recent usual type…I am feeling curious again and my interest in general opening up

  311.  #311Millie on July 11, 2014 at 1:21 am

    Yawn-worthy!!! Love it love it love it!

    Heard from J, guess he didn’t completely “poof” as I had suspected. I’m wondering if maybe he was just being a guy, doing his thing, and when he leaned back and I didn’t chase him, he felt comfortable to contact me….
    Who knows….but I feel happy with myself that I leaned back with him.

    Yawn worthy was perfect timing. I am beginning to feel bored when men withdraw or are not being attentive with me. I feel like I’ve been getting “too close” to Mechanic lately. I need to step back. I had a really rough day at work the other day and told him about it. He said, of his own accord, that he’d call me, but he didnt and later said he started getting busy cleaning his house. That didn’t feel good at all!!! I didn’t ask him to call me…it was his idea! I don’t like it when anyone, male or female, says one thing and does another. So i stepped back and didnt respond to him. He text me the next day saying he hoped I’d have a better day today. That was nice, and I thanked him. Saw him tonight briefly at a function. I felt very proud of myself for focusing on being present in the moment and not focused on him or what he was doing at all and also changing some behavioral patterns that I have. It’s empowering to know I’m in control of myself and I CHOOSE when and if I give my attentions to people.

  312.  #312Veronica on July 11, 2014 at 2:41 am

    Indigo – 313 – Oh I feel triggered by reading about interactions determined on a man’s time only. Breathe. And I don’t know if it’s because of my triggery feelings because I have this urge to give you a big hug.

  313.  #313Veronica on July 11, 2014 at 2:43 am

    Sophie – 316 – That is a good point –I do feel safer to be sireny and I can actually feel that my being wants to go into siren mode. It feels sexy/beautiful just to type those words. And I believe it feels different from chemistry – it’s more like a warm, soft glow and my focus is on discovering what this experience will show me about me not necessarily on keeping the buzz going. But there is slippery-ness that I’ll go back into old ‘chemistry’ modes and I can’t tell if I’m just reacting to manliness as opposed to boyness. I’m enjoying the man vibe a lot though.

    I feel smily reading that you’re noticing more degree-of-difficulty-worthy men and that what you find attractive is vastly different from your usual. I take it as a very good sign that your interest in general is opening up. Yay : )

    [WORDPRESS HASHCASH] The poster sent us ‘0 which is not a hashcash value.

  314.  #314Veronica on July 11, 2014 at 2:44 am

    Sophie – 316 – That is a good point –I do feel safer to be sireny and I can actually feel that my being wants to go into siren mode. It feels sexy/beautiful just to type those words. And I believe it feels different from chemistry – it’s more like a warm, soft glow and my focus is on discovering what this experience will show me about me not necessarily on keeping the buzz going. But there is slippery-ness that I’ll go back into old ‘chemistry’ modes and I can’t tell if I’m just reacting to manliness as opposed to boyness. I’m enjoying the man vibe a lot though.

    I feel smily reading that you’re noticing more degree-of-difficulty-worthy men and that what you find attractive is vastly different from your usual. I take it as a very good sign that your interest in general is opening up. Yay : )

  315.  #315Indigo on July 11, 2014 at 3:12 am


    I’ll take that big hug. Thank you dear.


  316.  #316Linda on July 11, 2014 at 4:23 am

    My brain has flipped . I dont feel the least bit of a twinge of desire to be with P. There were a few things of his in my posession and he asked for them. We made the exchange last evening. He is extremely handsome to me and it used to get this little spark tingle that would run thru me when I would see him.

    Last evening. Nothing… flatline. I have grown past him.

  317.  #317Kim on July 11, 2014 at 4:58 am

    Ha! Wow Indigo, I also have a J type man. Worse, he makes a date once every couple of months!! I think this one (mine ) is not interested but keeping me warm. I am not interested either but he invited me on boats, he is a captain, so nuff said 🙂
    Yawn-worthy wild child did text me a lot yesterday evening, I think he realised. He apologized for having been so distant and assured me it was work related (I don’t really care tbh). It was a little sweet but guess what, he made no plans for the weekend.
    He also asked me what I was doing with soccer (I am watching with MrP probably), told him a friend from Miami was coming up. I guess he was waiting for me to invite him, but no!
    I guess young men just don’t know how to date anymore, he said yesterday he almost ‘stopped by’ after a grocery run.
    Ugh. I don’t want a guy to stop by after 5 dates, I might be in the shower, or in the gym all sweaty.
    He seems to think I am strange for wanting plans to be made and respected. I am asking myself, are women now so easy, and always available? I mean, he hasn’t even asked for a relationship or exclusivity. There could be another guy here!!
    He’s about to get a lot wiser…
    No plans for the weekend by friday means no weekend with kim. Lol.

  318.  #318Kim on July 11, 2014 at 5:00 am

    I have had the same type experien with guys in their 20’s. It’s all about ‘hanging out’ and last minute plans and turning up. Not for me.

  319.  #319Azure Blu on July 11, 2014 at 7:19 am

    Sophie #316
    Eye candy AND nice!!!

    I feel sunshiny and happy to hear your heart is opening to alllll the other options the Universe has for YOU!!

  320.  #320Azure Blu on July 11, 2014 at 7:24 am

    Happy hugs!! I can feel YOUR SELF LOVE growing and growing!!!
    I have found when I hold MY boundaries
    in LOVE for ME…
    I Trust ME more and more…

  321.  #321Azure Blu on July 11, 2014 at 7:31 am

    I’m felling confused… You are seeing Mr. P to watch football…
    How does this feel to you?

  322.  #322Azure Blu on July 11, 2014 at 7:34 am

    did you feel there were expectations for you with having sex with wild man?

    Should you have listened to YOUR HEART and spoke about boundaries you might have around having sex beforehand?

    Are you treating yourself with flagrant disregard?
    What do you think?

  323.  #323April Rose on July 11, 2014 at 8:20 am

    Wow, i am observing finer details of feeling when in the company of a man.

    Like ‘tingles’ versus ‘safety’.

    I am choosing to emphasise interactions where I feel safe and relaxed. (Even if I consider the man not my type or dull).

    Tingles alert me to oxytocin, and the pre-cursors of longing.

    It feels sooo wonderful to simply feel relaxed and contained within my own body.

    Oxytocin infuses my blood and pulls my energy out of centre and towards the man’s energy.

    Discovering this feels fun!

  324.  #324Azure Blu on July 11, 2014 at 8:29 am

    April Rose,
    Yay!!! Happy dance…. (:~>

    “Tingles alert me to oxytocin, and the pre-cursors of longing.
    It feels sooo wonderful to simply feel relaxed and contained within my own body.”

    NOOOO to my addiction to LONGING!!
    YES to relaxed and calm!!

  325.  #325Kim on July 11, 2014 at 10:42 am

    Azure Blu, interesting question. The only expectations Inmight have had about sex is perhaps that nothing changes. Instead he pulled back. Which is fine but I have zero tolerance.
    Last night, we got kinda cut off and he said we would talk tomorrow, well it is 2pm now. Nada.
    I am German. If you say something, do it. If you are not going to say something, please don’t say anything.
    I think this is fair.
    I hate flakiness. Loathe it.
    I don’t care about him half as much as I care about solid communication and doing what you say you do.
    I think he has already catapulted himself out of the race.
    The sex, nah. I don’t feel attached in the least.
    Just flat now.

  326.  #326Kim on July 11, 2014 at 10:43 am

    He said ‘let’s talk tomorrow morning’
    I forgot the pivotal word lmao
    It is now 2pm

  327.  #327Kim on July 11, 2014 at 10:44 am

    MrP is harmless to me now. We will have fun watching the football, he will go home and we won’t see for another 6 months.
    He might have some job pointers for me. He does have his uses.

  328.  #328Kim on July 11, 2014 at 10:48 am

    Actually, I have no hard feelings as far as wild child is concerned. He might have realised I am too much for him. Better now than later. He is cute and sweet but I doubted from day 1 that this would turn into anything.
    Going to the beach and leaving my phone home! 🙂

  329.  #329April Rose on July 11, 2014 at 11:25 am

    Rori has posted a new blog article.

  330.  #330Azure Blu on July 11, 2014 at 12:05 pm

    Lovely Siren!!!
    Yay, going to the beach and leaving your phone home!!!

    I feel good reading what you have shared…

    I agree… If you have said you will call me… You need to call me… OR DON’t say it!!!

  331.  #331Liquid Light on July 11, 2014 at 7:09 pm

    Thanks Kim, Azure and Indigo!!! I really appreciate your encouraging words so much! Big hugs!!!

    PS: Today was better. I passed an online “exam” that I failed yesterday, and I got more familiar with a tool that I will be using a lot. Feeling a little less intimidated I guess.

  332.  #332Veronica on July 11, 2014 at 10:04 pm

    Indigo – 320 – : )

  333.  #333Denim-n-Pearls on August 16, 2014 at 9:01 am

    Man Opens with Sex Talk
    ALWAYS HONOR THY GUT! If you’re “out” (bar, club, where ever) and an unfamiliar man starts talking “sex” and you do not like, you FIRMLY TELL him to leave. If he does not, you have bartender call the manager/bouncer to have him removed!

    NEVER – NEVER tolerate anything you find offensive from any man – NEVER!!!

  334.  #334Indigo on August 17, 2014 at 2:52 am

    I dunno Denim n Pearls, I find this a bit rigid.

    If we go through life never “tolerating” anything from anyone that we find offensive, we would be closed off to just about everyone. I have found the nicest, sweetest guys sometimes just put their foot in it because guys talk that way to each other, and they are not always completely aware of how to talk to a woman. I think often you have to look beneath the words to the person underneath.

    The question is are they willing to learn what makes you feel comfortable and what makes you feel good. I know I have put my foot in it in the past, and I would not want to be rejected for one mistake.