When Anger And Frustration Gets In The Way Of Love…

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redwallThe Question:

“Hi Rori.
I am a follower of your work.
I have a question that I hope you can answer.
Your work helped me find the man of my dreams.
I did all the tools. He fell in love with me. And he won me over. I gave a chance to something different than instant attraction. I felt peace with him and I think LOVE grew in my heart for him.
To be honest he was devoted to me.

He is a true good man. And still is. Thank you so much Rori for making me see, with your tools, that good man exist. And that sometimes instant attraction is not as good as love that develops over time.

We are both 24. But I felt he would be with me forever. Because he is so good to me and love only grows for him.

I had issues and worked them through as good as I could.

But still I fail.

I know it is mostly me that has traumas inside. He is satisfied with giving me love and receiving from me hugs affection all those feminine things. He is a very simple man. I am the complicated one. He only wants to give love.

We were together for 2 years until Friday.
He said my dogs were too much for him. We were having fights about my dogs. The fights to be honest are about him not doing what he doesn’t want to do. If he says no there is no way of changing his mind. And I feel it is not fair in a relationship. THAT turns on my anger inside.

So he left. I know it was not only about the dogs. I was controlling and often times when i didn’t have it my way would explode with rage.

Now since he left we have been talking. AND i found out that a day after we broke up he was online trying to make friends with other women.
I confronted him and he said he was ashamed but that I had basically ended the relationship.

I understood that part and believe him.

Finally my question is…should we be back together, can it work if it hasn’t worked before?

I feel a lot of peace Rori when he is not here! SO much that it scares me.
He says he needed space.

But today he comes to me and tells me.
“I love you. And you are the only woman I want to be with. I do not need other women in my life but you.
I do not need to have sex with anyone but you.”

I believe him and I am amazed that a man like this exists.
But why is there so much peace in my heart when he is not around?
I am afraid of my anger If we live together again.

I am afraid of the arguments. But I need and want companionship.
I guess I love receiving his love but my trauma doesn’t let me love him fully.
WHAT can I do Rori, With all the anger inside?
Can me and him live in peace?
When in the past he wants to have it his way? Evelyn”

My Answer:

Evelyn, Hi – you sound very aware of how much farther you can go to understand yourself.

Fights are the hallmark of not knowing how to communicate.

And before you can communicate, you need to know where YOU are – what you’re feeling, how that’s going through your body – and you need to have enough self-control and maturity to make “choices” rather than simply “acting out.”

Demanding that a man “do” what you want him to do is not a realistic place to be coming from,

And though I’m sure he enjoys your “fiery” temperament, he’s not comfortable with the constant intensity of your feelings.

This is all, then, as always, about you.

We all have so many layers we just pile up on top of each other.

Rage is not only incredibly powerful – we can ALL feel that feeling when a man isn’t behaving the way we want.

The frustration sometimes feels unbearable.

It feels as if he’s doing it on purpose to frustrate us (or at the least – “forgetting” about us on purpose), so the frustration over the situation gets amplified by our thinking it’s about HIM and what HE’S doing.

What’s amazing about you, Evelyn, is that you can FEEL when you feel peace and when you don’t!

As good as he is let your gut guide you. If it feels more peaceful without him, then be without him.

If being with him triggers your rage so intensely, and you are, together, unable to work through it in a way that brings even MORE peace and intimacy – then be without him.

Private coaching would be amazing for you, and every one of my Certified Coaches (and the new RRRCT Trainees, too!), are fantastic. Give a few of them a try.

Love Rori


  1.  #1Femininewoman on June 9, 2015 at 9:08 am

    As good as he is – let your gut guide you. If it feels more peaceful without him, then be without him.

  2.  #2Tanea on June 9, 2015 at 9:59 am

    I can truly relate to Evelyn’s situation. I have been told I was trying to be in control instaed of the man. i think my anger and frustration comes from our past. He has left several times for his ex and I think thats where my anger is coming from. I still love this man more than ever, but he left almost a month ago because of all the anger I have in me. Im getting better without having him around but I still want him back home.

  3.  #3Indigo on June 9, 2015 at 10:07 am

    I agree, Evelyn. Follow that feeling of peace. Constant rage and frustration and blow-outs will wear on you terribly over time. Be with someone who doesn’t trigger you like that.

  4.  #4Tanea on June 9, 2015 at 10:20 am

    Indigo 3,

    What if its from past hurt that you went through with the same person and you both were willing to give it another try?

  5.  #5Indigo on June 9, 2015 at 10:47 am


    Then I am very much in favour of giving it your best shot. If two people want to try again then I think they both owe it to themselves to go down that path and see where it leads. At a certain point though it becomes clear where it leads, and it isn’t always to a happy ending. Only you and he can make that call, but in your situation, if it were me, I absolutely could not deal with an ex looming over my head, or any other woman.

  6.  #6Relationship Coach on June 9, 2015 at 11:32 am

    Very Useful and Informative Article…Thanks for Sharing

  7.  #7Femininewoman on June 9, 2015 at 11:50 am

    Tanea as far as I am concerned sometimes things have been said that pushes a relationship to a point of no return. Such a couple would be best of working with a coach/professional to see if they have enough goodwill between them to build a new relationship. With the best of intentions some people’s energy just rattle against each other, practically making it impossible to be together.

  8.  #8forest siren on June 9, 2015 at 12:29 pm

    Labbit you made a comment a while ago that I feel intrigued by. You said sometimes it is hard for Tender Cd to shift from affectionate energy to sexual energy. Could you talk a little more about that if you feel comfortable to?

    Also what do sirens think about doing competitive games with our men? Like bowling, or playing card games or anything where we might trigger the need to win in ourselves? I like to win but I don’t think its that good for my relationship! And yet it is such fun to do some activities like that!

  9.  #9Labbit on June 9, 2015 at 1:15 pm

    Hmm do you remember the post or the context forest siren? It’s not ringing any bells for me at the moment.

    I’m a super competitive person so I try to avoid playing AGAINST Tender in anything but we both very much enjoy playing on the same team. 🙂 We also really like doing team activities where there are no losers, like mystery rooms or scavenger hunts or puzzle games.

  10.  #10Labbit on June 9, 2015 at 1:28 pm

    From the last thread 219 Indigo —

    Tender did give a few reasons why he felt the pressure building up, and most of them had nothing to do with me directly. He’s stressed out about his work and about how much travel they are asking him to do. He’s VERY stressed out about the cost of renovating the apartment we purchased together. We knew the budget would run over, they always do…but the team working on the apartment has run into some really weird things behind the walls and really weird building/city rules too, so the cost overruns are quickly adding up. We had to pay for a lot of infrastructure upgrades within the apartment that were totally unexpected and super expensive. We’re now wondering if it might be smarter to rent out the apartment for the first year after it’s done, stay in my current apartment (where the rent is quite low) and then move into the new place after that. Tender is entering contract to sell his current place for above asking price which is great news but it doesn’t cover the unexpected costs in total. And mixed in there is my boundary about not living together before engagement, yet us also not being ready to get engaged right now. There are a lot of weighty things in play right now. I’m kind of getting a headache thinking about it all!

    There were a couple of other reasons that come from both of our families that I won’t get into here, and then the only one that really pertained to me was that he said he felt like he couldn’t fully relax these last couple of weeks when we were together, he couldn’t really explain it fully but I have read enough to have a good guess that I was looking to him to validate some basic needs (that he wanted me, that I was good enough, that he wasn’t going to leave, etc.). Even though we’d had a wonderfully intimate date two weeks ago, I admit I was still feeling off-balance from him choosing to go camping with friends over Memorial Day weekend in late May and his 2-week business trip before that where I didn’t hear from him as much as I’d hoped (EXPECTATIONS) to.

    So the reality is even though I was doing my best to hide it from myself or pretend like I was cool, I guess I had slipped into needy mode. And it’s FINE. Tender is also super sensitive to this because of his previous relationships, so he tends to want to back off the moment he feels even the eeeensiest bit of pressure. This is something we’re slowly working to recognize in each other, talk about it before it blows up into a fight, and work through it as a team. I was really quite proud of him on Sunday night at dinner. In the past he would have run away. Disappeared for weeks. This time, he kept in contact, took a few days to himself to center himself — giving me time to do the same — and then came back to talk it through. Next time maybe we won’t even need a few days, we’ll catch it soon enough to talk it through without having to back up.

    There are things he does that drive me nuts too, make me want to back away. 🙂 We are not perfect but we go together very well.

  11.  #11Labbit on June 9, 2015 at 1:33 pm

    By the way, needy mode for me manifests as wanting to ask him when I’ll see him next before our date is over, needing to touch him as much as possible if not at all times during our date (as in, wanting to hold onto him, haha!), and feeling anxious if more than 24 hours go by since I’ve last heard from him. Sometimes the anxiety will start while we’re still on our date. I’m much better than I used to be about being able to get a handle on it, but I think I was resisting the anxiety and neediness these last few weeks instead of embracing it and taking good care of myself. Thinking back I can recognize a quality in me where I’d started looking to Tender more and more to make sure that I was OK, which isn’t usually my way when I’m centered and happy. He’s the yummy yummy side dish to my already amazing life when I’m feeling good. When I’m not feeling good, he’s the meal that wasn’t big enough to fill me up and I always need/want more.

    There’s tension in my jaw, my shoulders hunch up, my belly gets tight.

  12.  #12Labbit on June 9, 2015 at 1:46 pm

    Lovergirl I am wondering if you’ve ever heard of the book Emotional Intelligence 2.0? It’s not very expensive, I purchased the Kindle version a few years back for under $10.

    The book was incredibly instructive and fascinating for me. I’ve always felt like there are some social situations, work issue, and relationship interactions that I handle better than others and I wondered why. I wondered why some people had social graces I did not, why things could roll off other people’s backs while I found myself incredibly angry or anxious over them. This book had my answers. Before you start the book there is a short test you take — just one online page, can be completed in less than 30 minutes. There’s a link and unique code for the test in the book, but the test itself is anonymous. They do ask for some demographic information beforehand which helps them sort out answers for their research, but you do not have to answer those questions if you don’t want to.

    Based on my answers I was given an “EQ” score, as well as specific tips on the test website and in the book on how to develop the EQ qualities that I was lacking. I was thinking the other day that I really should revisit this by re-taking the test and reading the book again.

    Perhaps it might benefit you (any interested Siren really!) in learning how to better understand where your anger comes from, how to manage it in a healthy way, and how to communicate calmly with S or Chicago or any guy even when you’re super upset with him. I too used to burst out in anger at my ex-fiance, and let’s just say it wasn’t exactly good for our intimacy or relationship. 🙂

  13.  #13Femininewoman on June 9, 2015 at 4:08 pm

    Labbit I am big on Emotional Intelligence. I find it intriguing. I guess it is time for a revisit.


  14.  #14forest siren on June 9, 2015 at 4:26 pm

    Thank you for your feedback FW.

    Labbit it was the post where you described Tender tickling you and if I recall correctly you said it just took him a few minutes to shift gears.

  15.  #15forest siren on June 9, 2015 at 5:56 pm

    victoria, thank you for your comment. i enjoy reading about your relationship – I think you are very in touch with yourself. I admire your restraint in listening to him talk about the things he needs to do without jumping in! I used to think pre rori this meant i should roll my sleeves up and TELL him what to do, full of great suggestions etc. I feel embarrassed to say that but I was raised I’m afraid, to be USEFUL, helpful etc. It was a revelation to realize that was the opposite of what would bring me close to a man. Now I make lots of mmm hmmm noises, as in I’m listening to you but not telling you what to do. As I said last night I did fall back a bit into giving advice and even got frustrated and said I can’t believe you are going to do xyz don’t you KNOW you will get the same result as all the other times that have ended up causing you such agony. And when I thought about it I really think he was just unloading pressure and stress by talking about all his options.

    Labbit I was reading your post about Tender’s stress and not feeling relaxed. It was very interesting. My man gets SO stressed about work and I can definitely tend to be needy. I just didn’t get whatever it was I needed when I was growing up and I’m never going to be totally ok about that. Fortunately he seems to stick with me through my neediness and has a good understanding of what is important to me.

    I also remembered a convo I had with him when I was feeling upset. It didn’t help when he gave me advice, what helped was me feeling supported by him.

  16.  #16Labbit on June 9, 2015 at 6:20 pm

    Hmm I’m so sorry forest siren I went through my old comments and I can’t seem to find it. 🙁 It sounds like something I might have said but I can’t recall the context anymore, and it’s not accurate for us anymore so I can’t elaborate. I was hoping re-reading the comment would jog my memory.

    I’m grateful for the trip down memory lane though — it was fun to re-read my old comments and see how much growth I’ve gone through since I started posting here about a year ago! And the best was finding a comment first where a CD did a complete 180 on me and went from asking me on a weekend trip to dumping me the morning we were supposed to leave…to just a week later, when TenderCD got his name here and started pursuing me more seriously.

  17.  #17Lovergirl on June 9, 2015 at 7:43 pm

    Labbit- Thank you, I will have to look into that book. I think its more I was triggered and just lost it, than that I don’t know what to do and say. I know the right things and what NOT to say, but right before my period every month, like clockwork, I have some kind of emotional outburst. Its mostly only directed at whoever I’m in a relationship (or not…) with.

  18.  #18Victoria on June 10, 2015 at 12:18 am

    Forest siren,
    Thank you, it is very pleasant to hear that you find my story interesting and that I am doing the right things. Overall, I think I am, even though I do have my moments of doubt.
    With regards to people complaining about some issue they have (anxiety, weight, bad luck etc) but you not needing to give advice: I have found over the years that no one wants advice. Like Rori says, people want a quick fix, a magic pill that will solve everything without them having to lift a finger. This goes both for men and women. I have a particular friend who complains so much about everything that is not ok in her life but she shoots down every constructive suggestion with her negativity and insecurity. I read a while ago a book called The Games People Play (very interesting even if written back in 1964) – it tells about repeating patterns of interaction between people and kind of benefits the parties derive from them – and I recognized her behavior of asking for advice in order to shoot it down and complain further descripted there, so it is in fact very common.
    I am also very interested on the topic of “motivation” – also in the work place, so I am carefully observing to see what is the process that my man goes through in order to do something. I see it is very important for him to think that the something was his idea. Sometimes it can be my idea, but it needs to be submitted for his consideration as a very kind plea, and then he would (maybe) generously accept. Also, to strenghten his motivation, I need to give abundant praise. Also, when I dislike something, I need to be very careful with my wording because he is very touchy. Also, the worst I can do for my relationship with him is to overgive, to overfunction. This in fact is worse off than playing any game against him (pool, chess, cards etc) and winning. My worst experience is when I get so focused on him and try to fix him, his life, his character, the relationship. At my best times are when I am fully focused on myself, having a great time with him life, and he comes chasing me for my attention. Yummy.

  19.  #19Victoria on June 10, 2015 at 12:26 am

    Forest siren,
    The game I am referring to is called ““Why Don’t You – Yes But” . If you google it, you will see some very interesting things.

  20.  #20Millie on June 10, 2015 at 12:35 am

    Do you ever imagine choosing to live life without a companion? Without a significant other, without a husband? Just choosing to focus on yourself only. Maybe that is the ultimate relationship.

  21.  #21Victoria on June 10, 2015 at 12:56 am

    I do not think we are meant to live alone. Other people are the source of happiness in our lives (and the source of unhappiness, but still),
    Why are you having such thoughts?

  22.  #22Indigo on June 10, 2015 at 1:08 am


    I think most people have had such thoughts at some point, especially after a disappointment in a relationship. But think what you would be missing out on if you did that. I believe the yearning for love and connection is a deep need in even the most lone wolf among us. Don’t give up. Your perfect man is out there.

  23.  #23Victoria on June 10, 2015 at 1:23 am

    I personally have never thought to just be alone. I have a little bit of difficulty to be with one man only (monogamy) because I kind of doubt “the perfect man” idea, but to be all alone? No way.

  24.  #24Indigo on June 10, 2015 at 1:40 am


    Yeah, maybe not everyone has thought it, but it seems like many people have 🙂 Or have given up on relationships. Personally I also could never, never bear the thought of being alone for life. As introverted as I am, my close relationships are everything to me, and the thought of being with my future “The One” man for life is all that keeps me going.

  25.  #25Indigo on June 10, 2015 at 1:55 am


    I think this is the comment forest siren is talking about (I found it! haha, go me! 🙂 )

    “627: LabbitNo Gravatar says:

    621 Azure — Yes, you are so right…I do feel that this is a new layer, and I can feel that underneath or past all this anxiety something lovely and tranquil is waiting for me. I will get there, in my own Sireny time…

    623 Indigo — Hmm, I feel intrigued! I do tend to a feel a little weepy in the last part of my cycle, though I’m not close to that right now. I hadn’t thought to track it against the moon but that would be an interesting experiment. I had one boyfriend who was very affected by the moon…we used to joke about him being a werewolf.

    Overfunctioning isn’t really an issue with Tender, for the last several months he’s stepped up strongly into the leadership role so that even if I try to overfunction a tiny bit, it feels so off and weird to us both that we laugh. It’s quite nice. 🙂 For me the anxiety has been triggered by contact issues, when I feel like he’s disappearing from me. If I expect him to call or reach out at a certain time and he doesn’t, etc. It doesn’t always trigger anxiety…mostly the bouts are when I already feel off-balance after something especially intimate or weirdly off.

    I too would feel uncomfortable in your shoes, with D not being so responsive to your advances as he normally is. And yes I am sure there is nothing wrong between you two though I can understand the rumble inside from it. It does not happen often but there have been times where I will start making the moves on Tender, and he’s in such an affectionate place that he can’t switch from affection to sexual feelings. But he’s usually very light-hearted and effusive in these moments and will tease himself. It’s all pretty funny to watch actually and usually ends in me being smothered in kisses. Maybe some tickling will lighten the mood with D. 🙂

    Monday, 1 June 2015 @ 11:59am”

  26.  #26Azure Blu on June 10, 2015 at 8:22 am

    As a person that is often late – I am constantly striving to fix this…
    My family gets the worst of my lateness…
    they are an hour+ away… I usually run about 1-2 hours late at get-to-gathers
    and they have tried to compensate by telling me the start time is an hour earlier.
    It doesn’t make me mad they do this…
    I do feel VERY badly for my tardiness.
    I have noticed… when my son comes with me (he lives with me) his help in getting out of the house
    Makes 100% difference… we’re always on time.
    It is sooo great to have help getting somewhere.
    Can’t wait till im with my Mr. Right…
    most things are soooo nice when shared with
    a man :-))

  27.  #27Beloved on June 10, 2015 at 10:50 am

    On the subject of timing…my family is NOTORIOUSLY late for most family plans, and I tend to be punctual. After being triggered HARD a couple of times, I noticed that really, my sisters and mom show up on time for things they WANT to….there’s no 2 hours late for work or meetings or parties they really want to be at. So I decided to just show up when I feel like it. If they are running on time or late it makes no difference to me because I go when I want, so if I miss anything or sit around for a couple of hours I kbow it’s because I want to.

    Over the past couple of years this has worked beautifully and my timing for showing up when things get started going purely by feel and putting me first is nearly exact. I see with my mom that sometimes she just doesn’t know how to prioritize and sort out what’s important, while with my sisters it’s more that they prioritize what they want to do so I finally had to start asking, why aren’t I? 😀

    Victoria I feel kind of amused that he is sulky, it must feel not so great to realize you and life aren’t revolving around him and going into a holding pattern waiting for hos arrival. 😉

  28.  #28Indigo on June 10, 2015 at 11:14 am


    Someone being habitually late drives me absolutely mad, it’s not something I can overlook, so I think you have a lot of patience…

  29.  #29victoria on June 10, 2015 at 12:04 pm

    I am not just patient I am a saint :-).
    His being late I can tolerate… But when combined with falling asleep when I am there for some good time is too much 🙂

  30.  #30Indigo on June 10, 2015 at 12:23 pm


    Personally I’d find the not seeing each other every day after three years to be the most difficult part, but then again we are all different. I realise I am getting impatient for my perfect relationship and my ideal “The One” to come along. I’m tired of waiting 🙂

  31.  #31Labbit on June 10, 2015 at 12:32 pm

    24 Indigo — Ahh thanks! So recent too, I can’t believe I forgot saying that already LOL.

    Well forest siren that does jog my memory since it was like 3 weeks ago at most. Really the issue came down to me being in a sexy mood and Tender was trying to tell me deep from his heart how much I meant to him in that moment, so we were at a mismatch. It was rather funny, him all mushy and me all horny. But like I said it happens rarely…he normally leads the way in all things sexy.

    Victoria I feel for you on the lateness issue, my mother is late for EVERYTHING. And I really do think it’s a mental protest of sorts. She wakes up super early in the morning and for the first 4 hours of the day she has a nice routine she likes to do of slowly eating and drinking her tea. Which would be totally fine except on days when we had family events, or anything going on in the morning, it’s like she COULD NOT shake herself out of the routine to get going. All of a sudden it’d be 45 minutes before we had to go and she hadn’t showered or dressed yet, my dad getting ever more annoyed with her. (He is early for EVERYTHING, haha.)

    I take after my dad and it used to drive me nuts too when we were late for everything that my mom went to with us. I can remember almost being held out of a game I was playing as a child because my mom could never manage to get me there until right before gametime, which was really about 40 minutes late. I ended up getting rides with a neighbor, and we’d get a ride home from my mom…45 minutes late. (Eventually the neighbor ended up driving me home too.)

    It’s something that will never change with my mom. To this day she’s like this. Last time I went to visit her and dad, I called from an hour away and she hadn’t gotten into the shower yet. She said she was glad to have plenty of time. But of course when I showed up at the house it was a big drama because she was still in the shower. Ahh, parents. I have learned to love and accept this part of her, even if I don’t really like it very much.

    Your F falling asleep before sex…that would make me unhappy. I dated a guy for a few months who always fell asleep right after sex, but beforehand? That’s kind of a letdown… 😉

  32.  #32Labbit on June 10, 2015 at 12:46 pm

    Sirens, I could use some advice for my sis who I’ve mentioned here a few times before. She’s down from dating three guys to two regularly and everything is still going very well. She let one of the guys go because he asked her to be exclusive, and she realized she was feeling it more for the other two men. So she left the door open with guy 3 but let him go for now.

    The two guys that are left are present, call and text her often, ask her out regularly, and treat her well on dates. It’s been nearly 3 months with both men. For now since she is not exclusive with either of them she is letting them both do all the initiating — she never texts or calls first. If they ask her what she wants to do on a date, she offers up two ideas and lets them choose. She’s kind of a rockstar.

    Anyway, on her last call with guy 1, in addition to setting up a date he said something along the lines of, “You know you can call me first too…” and she was like, uh oh. I don’t know exactly what she said in response but it was something along the lines of a feeling message saying how it great it felt having him lead the relationship.

    We both agree she shouldn’t be calling him or texting him first yet except perhaps in super rare cases when she’s felt a ton of his energy coming towards her and she doesn’t feel any pressure or expectations around reaching out. She asked me if she should be doing more to show him appreciation. I feel like it’s probably fine, and that she shouldn’t waste any energy worrying about it, but she’s concerned that this may be his way of saying he’s feeling under-appreciated.

    On their last date he cooked them dinner at his place and she stayed over. They didn’t have sex. She did thank him the next day and said everything felt great when they parted. She likes this guy a lot and if he asked to go exclusive with her she’d say yes. (I think if the other guy asked first she’d say yes to him, so they are about even at this point.)

    She has mentioned that guy 1 seems to be testing her a little…not in a mean way but more in a testing her mettle kind of way. Not calling for a few days to see if she’ll break down and call first, he cancelled one date on her (but apologized and rescheduled quickly), he’s made more mention of other women who are his friends to see if she’ll get jealous, etc. But along with that, he’s also opened up to her a lot on their last few dates, and started talking about the future in a healthy way.

    So she doesn’t want to brush him off, but she wants to do what feels best for her. What do you Sirens think? Before exclusivity, what’s the best way to show a man appreciation for the dates?

  33.  #33Deb on June 10, 2015 at 1:59 pm

    Hey Sirens! I wanted to share a letter with you all that I just wrote to Rori. I mostly used this blog a couple of years ago, and even then I was mostly a wallflower here, but I really wanted to express gratitude to everyone in this community for sharing your stories and bringing inspiration to me. I’d like to return the favor by giving back some inspiration and letting you all know that Rori’s method WORKS! Wishing to love to you all! Read on for the details…

    Dear Rori,

    This is a long overdue thank you note. It gives me so much joy to share with you that I JUST GOT MARRIED!!! I just cannot believe how my love life turned around in just a few short years. I feel proud of the work I put into expressing myself more authentically, and I feel so fortunate for finding you, Rori!

    I was the worst, Rori. I had never been in one healthy, real relationship. After a toxic relationship in college, I became the QUEEN of imaginary relationships. I seduced men, slept with them, hid who I was, and then expected that we would be in a relationship. I humiliated myself my chasing them when I didn’t get the results I thought I deserved, and labeled them the “jerks.” I was a doormat and I accepted all kinds of bad behavior in an effort to just be “cool.” I feel too embarrassed to admit how many times this happened. It failed miserably every time. In the meantime, I pushed away those that were genuinely interested. I never had a relationship last longer than 3 months.

    This was incredibly frustrating because I considered myself beautiful, smart, accomplished, and adventurous. Eventually, I went to graduate school and pursued a PhD in ecology. Deep down, I knew that I would trade it all to be in a happy relationship – it was incredibly depressing thinking that I would be alone for the rest of my life. I started to believe that I just “couldn’t do” relationships. They mystified me! Being an academic, it was also my nature to “go for” what I wanted, and most (bad) dating advice in magazines played into that narrative.

    (As an aside – I had some other work to do on myself first. I began seeing a counselor and had to resolve some issues stemming from childhood sexual abuse. I went “celibate” and stayed away from guys for a couple years while I processed that).

    Then in 2010 – I hit my emotional rock bottom. Both my brother and best friend got married, and the guy (I thought) I was seeing flaked out on me. I felt completely deflated and hopeless. That’s when I found your programs, Rori. To be honest, I felt afraid that it was going to be a scam, and I was sure that I would be instructed to say and do fake things that weren’t really “me.” I’m so glad that I was wrong!

    I started practicing the tools. I started using feeling messages. I learned to lean back. I started seeing immediate results! The best part was, I was learning to be more in touch with myself and to express myself more freely and authentically – I realized that I was the one who had been acting “fake” the whole time!

    I started to CD. I started being honest about what I wanted some day. I used to only being interested in the hottest guy in the room, so it took lots of practice to be more open to different kinds of guys, to listen, and pay more attention to how I felt around them. I really worked on accessing my feminine side, which had been there all along. I finally learned not to project all of my expectations onto someone I’d just met! I also watched old flames keep coming back… just like you said they would! Yes, there were some ups and downs (I may have broken some hearts…), but it was mostly fun and interesting.

    I am so glad for that practice time, because only a year later in 2011, I met my future husband! And, most importantly, I was ready when he came along! I remember using the “New Year’s tool” where I wrote a letter to myself from the future, one year later… it is like I waved a magic wand and it came true!

    I still cannot get over this man. He is definitely the Alpha male type with his protective, loyal, territorial, and ambitious mannerisms. He has a great job that he is proud of. On top of all that he is devastatingly handsome, a complete gentleman, an excellent baker & cook, a great listener, a sensual lover, athletic, extremely smart, and a killer dancer. Most importantly though, he treats me like a GODDESS! He is definitely different from who I thought I might end up with (he is a computer & technology person and I’m a nature person), but we really do compliment each other well.

    Around our 2nd year anniversary in 2013, he proposed (I think it would have been sooner if I hadn’t been traveling for several months a year). Saying yes was the easiest decision I’ve ever made! Rori, I’ve never been so happy. I feel more loved, secure, and cherished than I could have ever imagined. I want to thank you and the Have the Relationship You Want community for helping me get on this path and stay the course. Thank you for having the faith that anyone could do this. I am just so, so grateful for finding your materials. I continue to refer friends to you. They come to me for relationship advice now – who would have imagined?!


  34.  #34Dominique on June 10, 2015 at 2:07 pm

    Deb – What a wonderful story. Thank you so much for sharing it. Wishing you continued wonderfulness!!!


  35.  #35Tereana on June 10, 2015 at 3:34 pm

    So I’m sitting in a bar right now where V and I had one of our first dates. He showed up late because it was snowing and the trains were slow. But he hadn’t even gone back to his place to change from his work clothes and was wearing a suit. He felt overdressed, but I loved it. I thought he looked great ; )

    Anyway, it was such a fun time. We walked in, ordered food, and found out it was trivia night. I’m terrible at trivia. But we decided to play anyway, and I had a great time. That could be a theme of all our great dates we had – doing things we were bad at or inexperienced at and having a great time doing it together. I loved it. I miss it. It started to bring a little year to my eye, just thinking about it.

    But I’m ordering food to take home and eat by myself. I feel lonely and wish I had company tonight, someone to eat dinner with. But in also a little overwhelmed with stuff to do.

  36.  #36Tereana on June 10, 2015 at 3:41 pm

    I miss V. And it would be hard to deny that I still have feelings for him. I do. I feel it in my heart. I do not fall in love easily or often (or at least I don’t think I do). This one felt different. It felt mutual, and equal – each side of love on the same level. THAT is very rare for me. Being able to spend days on end with someone and still wanting to spend more time with them is very rare for me.

    It’s hard because people say you have to let a person go. And it’s true. And I have no choice. And it’s the right thing for him, so of course I do it. But I don’t love him any less.

    And all I can really do, I guess, is go about my life and try to live it in the best way possible. I wish it were the case that he was coming back to be with me. I’d be so happy with that…

    Dating wise, I’m just not into it, though. I’m moving, so it makes no sense. I’m having interesting convos with my ex, but I’m not interested in being together with him. I’ll flirt with guys and let them give to me. But I need a little guyatus right now, at least in terms of relationship. My heart is still in limbo and not ready to love someone else just yet…

  37.  #37Tereana on June 10, 2015 at 3:43 pm

    *tear to my eye

  38.  #38Beloved on June 10, 2015 at 4:15 pm

    Labbit – honestly, I would just ask him. “I felt x when you said y, and I’m feeling curious and wondering if you meant z.” I wouldn’t try to guess.
    That’s just me, though – I’m finding direct, clarifying questions to be EXTREMELY fun and useful, and serious drama and BS dissolvers.

  39.  #39Lovergirl on June 10, 2015 at 4:26 pm

    I hadn’t heard from S since our big blowout. I had stopped texting him on Sunday afternoon, so 3 days ago. Today he called and I didn’t answer because I was getting ready to go lie in the sun while my kids played in the backyard. 20 minutes later I called him back but he didn’t answer either. I thought it was a strange time for him to call since normally he’d be at work.

    Anyhow, he texts me like 25 min after that and said “I was just calling to see if you were feeling better”. I thought for a minute before answering because I wanted to express myself right. I finally responded “I don’t feel good about what happened with you. It felt, and still feels, really horrible to think of you taking someone else to a party. I feel taken for granted. I feel like I put my heart out there and it got trampled. It feels awful to be told I will never be #1 to you, or have your love and affection.”

    I haven’t heard back from him and that was an hour and a half ago, so likely he doesn’t have anything to say or doesn’t know what to say to that. Anyway, just thought I would share. I wasn’t really expecting to hear from him so soon.

  40.  #40Femininewoman on June 10, 2015 at 4:29 pm

    Labbit I find it distasteful when a guy mentions other women with the intention of me getting jealous. I just can’t. So guys like that I tend to call them out on it and let them know I’d rather just focus on enjoying our time together. I do believe in offering to give back a little because in my experience a real masculine man who really wants to feel like a man around me will likely just dismiss or brush off such offers. This guy might be needing some encouragement from her to make sure she is really interested. He is human. I am wondering if she knows what his love language is and if she uses it?

  41.  #41Beloved on June 10, 2015 at 4:41 pm

    “Well if anyone could find someone’s soft, gooey center, it would be YOU, Beloved.”
    Quote from my program director today, during a discussion after a group interview with a potential new instructor.
    Yeah, that made me feel all warm and gooey inside, too 😀

  42.  #42Gear on June 10, 2015 at 5:46 pm

    Labbit #31,

    Very interesting story. I would not go for guy #1, as he has too many ideas. I am sure he is smart, but while he uses his smartness on his woman, he is not a good man. My opinion. As for myself, do I make the same mistake? I am currently dating one smart guy. We have been dating for a little over two month. He text every morning, call every night,- almost. Or text. Yet he can not give up going to the singles social where both single men and women around…

    Back to your sister’s story, if it feels like I have to prove myself to him, and if I feel I am deliberately being tested, I would not feel safe. Now if I were dating more than one guy, this would not seem any trigger. As soon as we become exclusive, I, or any woman would be very easily triggered.

    Your sister sounds very smart, (I guess with your help too), she IS a rock star. I wish the best for her.

  43.  #43Lovergirl on June 10, 2015 at 8:32 pm

    Labbit- it just sounds like guy #1 is feeling a little insecure and wants to make sure she is as into him as he is to her. I get a lot of that because I rarely initiate calls or texts. Ive gotten it from S in the past and also Chicago, as well as other men in my life. I think its probably especially true from men who are used to women pursuing more. They can do little tests just like women do. I dont think its bad to once in awhile let the poor guy know hes being thought of too.

  44.  #44Tereana on June 10, 2015 at 8:50 pm

    I’ve beedn reading a bunch of Dominique’s articles recently (thank you, Dominique!) . And one concept she had that I really liked was how leaning forward, for us, when we are feeling “separation” is actually kind of building a wall of energy between us. We “think” we are connecting. But actually, we are retreating. We are making it impossible for him to connect with is.


    The way she put that has really altered how I think about “leaning forward.” I’m not sure it’s changed my patterns just yet. Still working on that. But it was soooo helpful to see how this is really true. I think I’m trying to connect, but really a part of me is desiring for him to just leave me the f alone. Lol

    Not that that’s what I really want.

    So getting to that part, finding out what she really needs…maybe that could help unwind the patterns …

  45.  #45Lovergirl on June 10, 2015 at 8:54 pm

    Well, its 6 hrs later and still no comment from S on what I said. Im not really bothered by it because I didnt really expect it. It still felt good to say how I felt, even though it was negative and he didnt respond. It will be interesting to see when I hear from him again and what he has to say.

    I had a dream last night that he was telling me he wanted to propose to me. It was totally weird (and prob ably pretty unlikely, lol) but its funny, a lot of times I will have a positive dream about him when we are arguing and then he calls, and that is what happened.

  46.  #46Millie on June 10, 2015 at 9:37 pm

    Deb– I loved reading your story and can relate to how you felt in the beginning of your journey a lot! I too fear that I “can’t do” relationships. And I’m wondering right now…and Victoria, this is partly why I posted about being alone…I wonder if it’s ok that I can’t. I don’t have any trauma in my life, meaning I haven’t had a traumatic experience like sexual abuse for example to necessarily “work through” but for some reason 3 months seems to also be my cap. Sometimes it is because I no longer want to be in it and other times, they don’t. I feel a bit of hopelessness for myself right now.

    Labbit– I was thinking about your sister and wondering if she is interpreting Guy#1’s actions as “testing” when really he is being himself and she is feeling tested and ultimately testing herself? Sometimes we date men who remind us of past ones that got the better of us, and I’m wondering if that is the case here? Like the player that dumped us, for an example. Not saying he is a player, but hopefully you get my drift. Perhaps she is using him to test her own strength and skills. Just a suggestion for discussion.

  47.  #47Millie on June 10, 2015 at 9:42 pm

    Lovergirl– I just want to say that I’m proud of you for expressing how you felt. That took a lot of courage. I know him not responding is difficult, but I think about some of the articles I’ve read where at their core men want to know they make us happy. Clearly you aren’t happy with him, and it makes sense for him to retreat right now. Perhaps he doesn’t know what to say because he doesn’t know how to make you happy in the midst of this, or feels so badly himself, that he needs to tend to his own feelings right now, first. I see it as a part of the process, one where you really voiced your truth without fear, and that in itself is a great victory.

  48.  #48victoria on June 10, 2015 at 10:26 pm

    Relationships require skills and motivation. I believe any woman can learn to be more feminine and authentic, I certainly can do some improvements on myself. I also believe there is a great reward in the process of expanding your femininity and authenticity, as well a great reward in growing closer with a man.
    Rori’ tools are amazing, they are very useful in more than romantic relationships. We are all here to heal and to learn.

  49.  #49Indigo on June 10, 2015 at 11:11 pm


    About your sister’s guy #1 – I kinda agree with Millie. I didn’t get the sense from what he was doing that he was testing your sister, just that he was being himself, being the way many/most guys are in the beginning of a relationship when you are still sussing each other out. I don’t know, from my experience it is common in the beginning for a guy to go a few days without calling, to talk about his female friends and to say he’d enjoy it if I called or texted once in a while. I’m not crazy about it if a guy talks too much about his female friends, unless it’s to reassure me that they are just friends.

    In terms of your sister appreciating him/showing her interest, I tend to agree with FW that a masculine man doesn’t need a lot of this, but she could check with herself that she is being very warm on their dates, smiling a lot, laughing at his jokes. Touching him on the arm and making sure she hugs/kisses him at the beginning and end of each date. I find guys love these things.

    I’d say it’s a bit early to be leaning forward, however when they are a bit more established I think there is nothing whatsoever wrong with the odd initiated text or phone call.

  50.  #50Dixie on June 11, 2015 at 2:42 am


    Just sitting in an emotional soup right now. I’ve been feeling so overwhelmed at work, overwhelmed with lots of stuff and D. has retreated like a bear for the past week and a bit.

    I’ve been feeling so needy because I miss his steadiness, esp now when I’m feeling like I could just drop.

    I’ve been weepy with sheer stress. I’m not feeling very sireny at all, just the opposite, like a sad girl. I can feel this distance and I’m scared that a wall is going up again…. All the negative voices are having a field day. Heck, they’re running a circus and parade…..

    This isn’t about him, I know, it’s about me being able to lean on myself. Still, I am tired, overwhelmed, and I just miss him.

    I am practicing leaning back, and my heart does feel open, but it certainly feels like he’s retreated.

    I feel exhausted from so much of it. Thank you ladies SO much for listening…. Labbit,, I did the Love Compass exercise as well and it felt very soothing. The funny thing is that in my regular journal, I had already done something similar…

    I know this part for certain: I’m getting better at this.

    Oh sirens, I feel a bit better just from being here. But this is the part where I take a HUGE step back from him. Lovergirl, you are doing amazing, btw.

  51.  #51Dixie on June 11, 2015 at 2:57 am

    Labbit… As a side note, your experience with Tender pulling back has been so helpful. When I read it, I was smiling a hit because I recognized my situation so much.

    I am looking after myself, still going out with friends, but I need to try turning around, 180 degrees, and not looking at or worrying about what’s going on with him.

    Funny, isn’t it…. After just a bit of writing here, I can feel my heart lifting a bit, feeling calmer and steadier 🙂

  52.  #52Labbit on June 11, 2015 at 5:47 am

    Deb — I LOVE THIS!! I feel so inspired. It’s so nice when Sirens come back to share their tales of happiness. I don’t know you but I feel like I do, and I’m so happy for you!!!

  53.  #53Labbit on June 11, 2015 at 5:52 am

    Sirens thank you all for your feedback for my sis, I’ll pass it along to her today. 🙂 I think I may have triggered some of you by using the word “testing”, poor choice on my part…Indigo has it right with ‘sussing out’. So far he seems like a very good man who treats my sis well and makes her feel great both when he’s with her and when he’s not, and that’s all I care about.

    Dixie, I am glad you found it helpful! Yes looking for ways to treat ourselves well, make ourselves happy, that radiates out of us like a magnet that men find so attractive! I’ve been focusing on continuing my own expansion this week…and I’ve noticed that when I’m expanding, so too is Tender. Yesterday I felt his energy coming towards me big-time and last nite on our date he was so affectionate, just murmuring how safe he feels with me. That little bump was TOTALLY worth it, for both of us. This morning we were like kids, it felt so fun!

  54.  #54Azure Blu on June 11, 2015 at 6:49 am

    I have come across the problem of men not thinking I show enough enthusiasm/interest…

    I am shy and reserved- when it comes to men-
    With Rori’s tools for expressing appreciation and unzipping my heart… my connection with men has grown by leaps and bounds
    Sometimes I’m a little leary to “lean back” for I tend to do that anyway…
    I read Evan Katz email from June 7 and he gave a couple of ideas on how to keep the momentum going without being too masculine…
    He mentioned that when a man is showing genuine interest… He does like to see that you are interested too..
    I have been thinking about this lately and realize
    there is a balance between being needy and overbearing in dating
    and softly showing interest..
    I believe Dominique has talked about discovering
    what the give and take is in a relationship..
    asking the question… “I feel so happy when I’m with you I’m wondering what kind of time spent together feels good to you?”
    Or something like that…
    I’ve not done this… Now that I’m back to dating…When I’ve spent at least 2-3 months with someone… i think i’ll ask this question.

  55.  #55Allure on June 11, 2015 at 6:53 am

    It’s a gorgeous morning and I want to make the best of today.
    I am feeling grumpy, low energy. That time of the month. I can just embrace it and love it.
    I’m sort of managing to keep up with all the other writings on here. There is a lot! Hopefully soon it will feel less like a journal and more like an interaction with fellow sirens.

  56.  #56Labbit on June 11, 2015 at 6:53 am

    Mmm yes Azure Blu I think that is a great idea! I have suggested something similar to my sis previously, that she can ask a man something like, “What can a girl do that makes you feel really appreciated?” I like the script you’ve given here very much and I’ll suggest it to her too.

    Along with that FW I don’t think my sis knows Guy 1’s Love Language yet but from what she’s told me I’m going to guess it’s Acts of Service. But she should ask him, that would be a fun activity for them to do together!

  57.  #57Dominique on June 11, 2015 at 6:59 am

    Tereana – 43 – I feel so delighted reading this and that you had a sort of light bulb moment. I love it.


  58.  #58Deb on June 11, 2015 at 8:19 am

    Millie – Sure, some people do choose to be alone, but realize that you don’t have to be alone if that isn’t what you want. The more open & honest you can be with yourself and your CD’s about what you want, the more you will attract those who fit the bill! I agree with victoria’s words as well about expanding your femininity and authenticity. I have complete faith in you. Big squishy hugs to you as you continue your journey!

  59.  #59Azure Blu on June 11, 2015 at 8:56 am

    Dear Sirens,
    I found this in my inbox today…
    from James Baurer,,,
    I don’t always agree with what he says
    but just like all of us
    he does have some very good insights from a mans perspective…

    The Master and the Beginner

    There’s a saying that the master has failed
    more times than the beginner has even

    Others say there’s no failure, only

    And while that statement is not technically
    true, it’s worth acting as if it was true.

    If you act as if failure is only feedback,
    you can tolerate a lot more failed attempts
    without feeling emotionally beat up.

    Plus, it puts you in a learning mindset
    where curiosity about what went wrong
    becomes your teacher.

    Do you find guys confusing and frustrating?

    Don’t let discouragement prevent you from
    becoming a master of understanding and
    being understood.

    Remember that nothing would ever get done
    if people waited until it was so easy that
    they knew they could do it perfectly the
    first time.

    Overcoming communication barriers is about
    overcoming loneliness.

    When we understand each other, loneliness
    is dispelled.

    It’s worth the effort.

  60.  #60Azure Blu on June 11, 2015 at 10:01 am

    Beloved $40
    I love how your yummy “gooey” Siren self
    shines brightly for alll to see!!!

  61.  #61Violette on June 11, 2015 at 12:46 pm

    Tereana 43, this feels true to me today.

    I don’t want to, but I feel so angry with M today. I don’t want to communicate with him. I want him gone. At least this is my go to. Shut out the danger. He is “bad” and I don’t want that anywhere near me.

    I don’t like what he did. Last night he texted me to meet up later for a drink, and I chose to go with it. When I replied for details he didn’t reply for an hour. I was dressed. I had put on makeup. And by the time he replied I was fuming and putting myself to bed.

    Not every woman would feel as strongly as I did. My reaction was so violent that I knew I shouldn’t communicate with him.

    If a man pisses me off though, I don’t want to shut him out and not communicate though. Unless I feel genuinely done and want to move on. But in this case the whole reason I’m dating him is to allow him to see me and to allow him to show me himself. Because ultimately I want that relationship.

    I replied last night saying I’d gotten dressed to see him and was now going to bed. He responded do I want to meet him or he can come to me. This infuriated me. He never even apologized.

    Which is fine. This is how he does things. This is how he communicates. And I do believe he likes me, he’s not very suave is the deal.

    I didn’t respond. But I want to respond today. Otherwise what’s the point of dating anyway.

    I’m going to text him that I like him and I felt stood up last night and I don’t want to feel that way with him, and that to be honest I prefer to make plans in advance to feel more grounded and be able to look forward to it. I’m planning to say it in a nicer tone than I feel, by sandwiching it with something nice. Because I don’t hate him and I feel like if I don’t sandwich him he won’t hear me.

    I am going to try with all my might to not get bitter here. To continue CDing, to take my time, and to believe a safe fun exciting stable romance is in my future.

  62.  #62Violette on June 11, 2015 at 12:54 pm

    I want to say that I sent the text. I felt afraid to, like I’d mess things up or something. But it feels incredible, to tell the truth, to share myself with someone, rather than keep it inside. To share myself now, after the feelings have run their course, and I’m not reactive, calm, direct 🙂

  63.  #63Zara on June 11, 2015 at 1:01 pm

    Millie 19

    “You are the love of your life”


  64.  #64Azure Blu on June 11, 2015 at 1:02 pm

    Violette #61
    You are a Rock Star Siren!!!
    The best way to have a good relationship
    is to be honest and upfront with our desires..
    that way the man can respond one way or another…
    and then we can decide what we want to do.
    Great job…
    YOU ARE very brave

  65.  #65Zara on June 11, 2015 at 1:06 pm

    Millie 19

    “I need a boy friend… Is that true?”


  66.  #66Sassy on June 11, 2015 at 1:29 pm

    Sirens, talking about the retreat into the man cave….
    Last week we had a very intimate day, and I have gotten to the point where I try very hard not to ask a lot of questions. So as I was leaving, he volunteered the info that he was possibly going to another state to fix his motorcycle. I had no idea whether he went or not but we texted a little bit on Saturday. I never heard from him on Sunday, and on Monday I had to text him for some information I needed. I couldn’t get an answer and as the day went on I was panicking a little. I did have in the back of my mind he had retreated. On Tuesday morning I texted a “hey are you ok” and finally an hour and a half later he answered with “hey I’m ok just took a break”. Aghhhhh. Of course my NV’s went wild, not only because I am concerned about his health, but also because I hate to be ignored, but I just kept myself in check. Yesterday I was there for a short while and I told him I feel happy when we spend time together. That was huge for me to say, especially out loud, because I never expressed feeling messages to anyone, much less him! So, as we were getting ready to leave, I said (and this is something I never would have been able to say before), “will you do me a favor? He looked at me and I said “the next time you need a break will you tell me you need a break?” He looked at me a little surprised and nodded his head. Him not responding to my texts was actually the first time he has deliberately not responded since we’ve been seeing each other so much lately. I’m wondering if his retreat was to determine his feelings for me at this point or just being overwhelmed with everything that’s going on in his life.
    I guess time will tell….I’m getting better at leaning back and really feeling and naming my feelings, so if nothing else, it’s all good for me!

  67.  #67Violette on June 11, 2015 at 1:29 pm

    Thank you Azure, it does feel incredible to be clear about my desires. And to be heard!! Most importantly by myself of course.

  68.  #68Mandy on June 11, 2015 at 1:44 pm

    I was away for a week, in the state where my mom’s family lives.

    I realized I had a pain inside my chest so brutal I don’t think I’ve ever felt it before. It was grief. My grandmother died of cancer about 7 years ago, and I hadn’t seen her, hadn’t been back in that state for so long, it was like…my brain or heart or both defaulted to somehow believing she was still there, able to be contacted by phone, etc. I knew when I saw her grave something would happen.

    The pain in my chest was incredible. My family and I went to the house to see it, and it was still just as pristine and beautiful as it was when she had it. The Rhubarb plant was still in place, the garden, the grass and everything looked as though she was still inside the house.

    Then we went to pick out flowers to plant on top of her grave and my gradfather’s. I felt so utterly heavy with sadness I am not sure how I even walked. But I went inside and my family let me sniff out a Tiger Lily…she was always so fond of them.

    Then we went to the grave and I cried, planted her Tiger Lily, whih lit it up light a light, and took a little heart shaped jewel off my keychain and placed it there, as my mom gave me the keychain and it had one other heart on it…it meant something even though it was just a little trinket.

    So…now that I am back…I feel I’ve been through he wringer. I come back to J and he’s been through it because he’d been sick with the stomach flu and looked like hell too.

    I talked with G for a second and he was like ah I gotta take a nap…and boink, gone. That’s one of those little things that sometimes gets me. Like whoa, that was unexpected. Should I worry? I my guess is absolutely NOT…lol. So I plan to go grab a coffee after I charge my ipod and grab some groceries because this place is out of stuff.

    I do feel a little weird when attention shifts like this because I have had an obligation that is very emotional or something like that. I feel like oh, if I don’t pay constant attantion to this guy he’ll lose interest, and then something will happen like this, and I’ll go SEE?????

    Anxiety girl – able to leap to the worst conclusion in a single bound…

    Well, I am trying something new today, just letting it be water off my back like a duck…I do feel a bit wierded-out and thirsty for closeness…

    I also feel both these men who I see are emotionally unavailable for a lot of the part. Air-force brat syndrome. Going for that guy that has to be deployed, or TDY, for a year or three months or whatever, just like Dad. YEP. He’s going TDY.

    Oh gosh, that’s my new joke!!! The men are going TDY, Sirens. So what does a noble knight’s Siren do?

    She forgets about him is what I have come to learn from, Rori, oddly enough. Like, Oh well, time to do something different…my mom always pretty much handled it by rolling with the punches as it were.

    Also, One Siren here let me know I seemed to be laser-focusing on G. I will admit that yes, I am quite excited by him, and when that happens, it’s just like…explosive, fiery passionate energy burning hot as the sun. Just fireworks and volcano eruptions and shooting stars. Lighting up my whole body, and when the other person matches my energy it’s double explosive and very addicting.

    So…yes, I become addicted to a man very quickly and very strongly. Yes at first it is absolutely a dream. Absolutely nothing less than idyllic and hot. But when the dating turns into commitment, something changes and all of a sudden we’re bored with each other.

    I think it’s time to step way back and just do my own thing for a minute here and not worry.

    Comments certainly welcome, I am going through some strong things and I’m turning 34 in less than a month. I need all the suggestion, support, contact, reflection as I can get!

  69.  #69Lovergirl on June 11, 2015 at 3:50 pm

    Millie 46-

    Thank you! He still hasn’t said anything. Oh well. I have been so focused on my new job and all the other things I need to get done that I haven’t had a lot of time to worry about S and what he is thinking about. 🙂 I do know that he has relatives coming from out of town, I think it might even be today, and he was taking off work to entertain them.

    I got a text from another blast from the not-so-far past. That boring guy who bought me the expensive boots and perfume for Christmas, and who I dumped when I found out I was pregnant the second time. He wants to take me to dinner (wings, as usual, haha) tomorrow night. I agreed. Why not, its something to do and I haven’t heard from him since the beginning of February. See, they DO always end up coming back, almost without fail!

    Meanwhile, I’m feeling great about my new job! I’m still training but the training is paid and I have enjoyed it so far. I am liking the people I’ve met and am looking forward to making new friends.

    It’s a sales job, so lots of friendly, outgoing types, plus I’ll be out amongst the public. It seems like a lot of the people I’ll be working with are men too, which is kind of fun. Of course I’ll want to avoid getting into anything with anyone I work with but its fun to socialize and flirt, I guess it could be a form of circular dating.

  70.  #70Zia on June 11, 2015 at 5:49 pm

    I feel so excited right now. I feel sparkly, I feel expanded, I feel so much space around me! Something is happening! I don’t know what but I feel like things are about to start moving forward in leaps and bounds!

  71.  #71Allure on June 11, 2015 at 6:38 pm

    I feel sosososo exhausted. Running on E physically and mentally today. My day felt bright and easy although I felt low energy and grumpy.
    I feel shifts in this transitional period today. I feel so thankful for this anonymous space to share things that I may never share with anybody. It’s been a powerful tool for me. Even better than journaling. Feels like it’s more fully out of me if someone else can see it out there. I am generally an emotional person feeling many highs and lows daily. I can judge my overall well being by a general sense of…well being lol and these past days I am feeling so much better. Healthier in my mind.
    I feel myself yearning for purpose in this moment.

    I have a fabulous weekend coming up. A bbq, a date night with my mister. The weather should be blindingly beautiful. I can just lean back and absorb all the beauty i’m certain to experience and let it fill me up.

  72.  #72Dixie on June 11, 2015 at 6:50 pm

    Okay. Sirens, I’ve slipped into masculine mode right now and guess what? This feels unbelievable and fierce… What brought on this feeling?

    Don’t laugh please…I’m not even a big sports banana but I’m watching the FIFA Womens World Cup, cheering on
    Canada and feeling so, so invigorated by these amazing athletes!

    Funny how watching other women in “their element” can feel so inspiring!!

  73.  #73Dixie on June 11, 2015 at 6:57 pm

    Bananas! I just jumped off my chair and cheered! This is SO much fun! Holy cow. (NOW I understand this rush of adrenaline!)

  74.  #74Femininewoman on June 11, 2015 at 7:55 pm

    RE 55 Dang Labbit. You know I was also going to ask if you think that guy’s love language was acts of service, but I told myself no. It might just end up being suggestive rather than just curious.

  75.  #75Millie on June 11, 2015 at 8:40 pm

    Despite feeling a little down… I’ve discovered a huge motivation in owning my life, in envisioning the future I want without a man in it. Filling my own plate with pie. Work has been stressful, but in a relatively good way. I am traveling for work again at the end of the month and decided to give myself a slice of pie by extending my stay to do some traveling on my own in Europe for four days!! I’m so excited and can’t decide where to go- but I’m sure I’ll figure it out!

    I’m also managing two people now, below me- both guys- one is gay, one is straight. The straight one, strangely enough, I had a crush on in school, which quickly dissipated. Now I am managing him and getting amazing feedback! He was on the verge of quitting due to some work baggage, but turned a corner and now seems to have found some light! He has told me how wonderful it is to work under me and how much he appreciates my feedback, that I help him understand things when his previous boss just yelled at him. He is doing a great job and seems to blossom with the praise. It’s like–he works harder because he feels good and has even taken to making us dinner when we stay late. His masculine side which longs to take care of women has just burst open. It’s really wonderful actually. It makes me feel good that he is happy and growing.

    CDB texted me asking to see me this wknd, but haven’t heard from him in a few days. I like him, but I really miss having daily contact from the person I’m dating. I feel like– the person doesn’t really like me that much if they aren’t talking to me every day. Maybe that is a lot to expect in the beginning and taking it slow is not a bad thing. We will see how it goes, I just miss M and the way things were with him. I just want to find that again, but I know I can’t compare, all men are different…but once you’ve had chocolate mousse, cake tastes kind of dry.

  76.  #76Millie on June 11, 2015 at 10:20 pm

    Well CDB contacted, guess he heard his ears ringing haha

  77.  #77Layla on June 11, 2015 at 10:46 pm

    How to get private counselling ?

  78.  #78Millie on June 12, 2015 at 12:34 am

    OMG not to be a blog hog, but do any of you ladies remember Musician?? So, there are a few bands that I love to dance to, that when I go see, I know he will be there…and I DREAD it. I don’t want to stop going because of him, but I admit, I have avoided it. What a mistake that guy was!!! And now, every time I see him, he comes up to me like a creeper and mentions “that time” we had together, which was literally like two nights we messed around in his car because I didn’t know he had a gf. Ugh! Whatever attractiveness he had at that time, which was probably stemmed from my misplaced insecurity, has vanished. Now, all I see is a desperate has-been. I cannot stand him! Tonight I went dancing and as usual was scared to go in because I knew he was there… I told myself, why should I be scared? I can handle this! What’s he going to do in a public area? He scares me because I am visibly uncomfortable and cold when he approaches me and yet he KEEPS talking to me and “goes there”, it’s like he doesn’t take no for an answer and I think that is the scariest part. He hits on me in front of everyone and I can’t imagine the scowl that is on my face when he does it! I wish he would leave me alone forever. Seeing him and talking to him makes me feel so icky. What was I thinking?!!! And he always wants to know where I’ve been, that he hasn’t seen me around…it’s like, ya my life doesn’t revolve around your band. I can’t even express my revolt and disgust around the entire situation enough. Thankfully he doesn’t dance, or else I’d have a whole other problem. To think, that I obsessed over him and allowed myself, ME, to feel bad over him. Seriously….probably one of the most “lost” decisions I’ve ever made and he keeps reminding me of it. His band is playing next week and I want to go because the music is really great and I love dancing to it, but I can’t stand him! If I can rally some friends I’ll go, but no way I’m going solo. Isn’t it funny what a 180 one can make?!

  79.  #79Indigo on June 12, 2015 at 1:31 am

    So ladies, last night D shared with me that he was unhappy – I could see so clearly how unhappy he was – because he didn’t feel like his life was progressing. His job wasn’t progressing, his relationship with me wasn’t progressing, nothing was progressing. He’s right of course. If I had his life I would have expired from frustration a long time ago. His job is comfortable and well-paid, but boring and unchallenging and to be honest I think he does what needs to to get by.

    Some of his closest friends are in their 30s yet live in a time capsule of frat boy behaviour, getting drunk and sleeping around, and never treating a woman well enough or sticking around long enough to build anything real or meaningful. It’s a case of drunken one night stands and never seeing the woman again, and they run a mile from the nice girls. D is like this in his own way, backing off and finding a reason to bail when things get too close.

    He backs away from the world and cocoons himself in his house and doesn’t like to go out, or go away, or have new experiences, which I know would all help him feel more alive and expanded.

    And things don’t progress with me because he doesn’t progress them. He says he deeply cares for me and would love it if things worked out for us, that he’d love to be in a stable, happy, forever relationship. I’m not sure whether he thinks this is going to happen by cross-pollination or fall magically into his lap or what.

    How do I tell him that all these things are easily within his power to change, that the only person who can do anything about his life is him? I don’t of course. I just have to sit there and watch while he makes himself miserable over things that are easily fixable.

  80.  #80Indigo on June 12, 2015 at 1:38 am

    You just have no idea how frustrating it his to hear how he would love things to be stable and settled between us, but how can I believe that when nothing in his behaviour reflects that? I can’t have a committed, happy relationship with someone who doesn’t put in the effort, with someone who lets things completely stagnate and then is flabbergasted when life passes them by.

  81.  #81Femininewoman on June 12, 2015 at 1:44 am

    Indigo – Some of his closest friends are in their 30s yet live in a time capsule of frat boy behaviour, getting drunk and sleeping around, and never treating a woman well enough or sticking around long enough to build anything real or meaningful. It’s a case of drunken one night stands and never seeing the woman again, and they run a mile from the nice girls. D is like this in his own way, backing off and finding a reason to bail when things get too close..

    This to me is no good. People become like the people they are closest to. Indigo it is just a pity you can’t find it in you to just walk away.

  82.  #82Indigo on June 12, 2015 at 2:01 am

    Feminine Woman,

    I basically have. I’ve told him that I’m moving to another country, that we can’t be together and I can’t take it any more.

    I suppose I still really feel concerned for him because I care for him.

  83.  #83Femininewoman on June 12, 2015 at 2:06 am

    Have you ever read Virginia Clark’s story? She is one of Rori’s friends who coaches. Her brand is “It’s Never Too Late to Marry”.

  84.  #84forest siren on June 12, 2015 at 3:24 am

    Hi Darling Indigo, can’t wait to talk to you more about this at the weekend – in many ways our situations are so similar.

    I did find one solution to this type of thing – I wonder if you could possibly try this. I totally believe that we kindof mirror what is going on around us so as a couple I accepted invitations to dinners, parties, events, concerts etc with other stable couples, or families, or people who had happy connected long term relationships so that C could see what that looked like. I refused invites to hang out with people who were having affairs, or constantly breaking up etc. Of course what he does in his own time is his own business but overtime he has learned that I will say that I feel uncomfortable in x y or z situations.

    I think the overall thing you are talking about though is our own power to change our own lives. C is also very unhappy with his life and doesn’t yet see his own power to change it or his thinking about it (this comes first of course). When I feel like getting in there and cheer leading him or changing his perspective I have to remind myself to start with me. You are giving D the biggest gift by SHOWING him that WE change our experience and if we are unhappy with it the power rests in us to change it. Shaking up your own life will be a power of example to him.

    I totally sympathise though with the frustration at him feeling life his life is happening to him. I am so happy to say that C is addressing this very issue right now – how to feel more empowered and active in his own life.

    Sending so much love! XO

  85.  #85Labbit on June 12, 2015 at 4:34 am

    77 & 78 Indigo — In my experience, the most you can do is tell a man, ‘I understand. I fully support you in whatever changes you’d like to make.’ And that’s about it, maybe other Sirens here have more to say on the topic…he has to want the change for himself. He has to want it enough to do something about it.

  86.  #86Labbit on June 12, 2015 at 4:45 am

    Also, I agree with forest siren in that we Sirens living our lives to the best of our abilities, taking exquisite care of ourselves in all ways, can really inspire men and lift them up to our level so to speak.

    I think about this post by Rori a lot:

    And how I’ve used it in my own relationship to turn things around quickly, emphasis on the doing something for myself that feels GREAT part. I find that when Tender and I are both feeling great simultaneously, our lives expand separately and so does our relationship. Water rises to its own level…why not set the bar ever higher? 🙂

  87.  #87forest siren on June 12, 2015 at 6:49 am

    Love what you say here Labbit about water rising to its own level.

    I’ve read Rori or maybe Dominique saying that men ‘catch’ our feelings – I wonder if D is ‘catching’ or ‘mirroring’ your unhappiness and feeling frustrated in the relationship. Again taking care of ourselves and making ourselves feel good helps everyone. I was raised to believe this was selfish but now I totally get how looking after me and making myself feel good affects everyone around me positively.

  88.  #88Azure Blu on June 12, 2015 at 7:34 am

    Dixie… This is fantastic!! I’m going to start watching some women’s sports…
    I love to watch men’s baseball and hockey…
    This is a great idea!

  89.  #89Indigo on June 12, 2015 at 8:04 am

    Feminine Woman,

    No, I haven’t read Virginia Clark’s story. Could you summarise for me or tell me where I could read it?

    I agree with you about the friends thing, and have tried to gently reveal to D how his friends’ behaviour is a losing strategy in what he purports to want, but of course it is no good.

  90.  #90Indigo on June 12, 2015 at 8:17 am

    forest siren 82,

    I love what you say here about only spending time with other stable couples, and about taking wonderful care of yourself and your own life to inspire your man to do the same.

    I feel that when it comes to my own life I already do this… I have long ago let go of the more immature friends whose behaviour I don’t admire, and now strive to only spend time with people and in situations which add positive value to my life and uplift me as a person. I’m dedicated to my own growth and expansion, and I feel I have pushed the boundaries of my own comfort level so many times in order to invite more peace, more happiness and more fulfilment into my life. I feel that I am a very motivated person – motivated that is to see the best in things and to reach for more happiness all the time.

    Unfortunately I feel like D is a bit of a lost cause in this way. I’ve long suspected that he is probably depressed or has some other form of deep troubles. I can only speculate about what causes this, but he has a chronic illness that causes him a lot of discomfort and I often think he battles to rise above it. He’s hinted at past traumatic experiences which he has never shared with me, but in general I think he really battles with being resilient and creating his own sources of happiness and satisfaction, which I believe are so key to living a contented life. He lets things get him down terribly and can’t seem to rise above relatively small things and get back in the game, so to speak. I seem to spend a lot of time reassuring him and lifting him out of whatever place he’s in, or trying to encourage him to see things more positively. Not surprisingly, it’s just too much to ask of me.

    Looking forward to emailing with you on the weekend xx

  91.  #91Indigo on June 12, 2015 at 8:21 am

    Labbit 83,

    Yeah, I have kind of got to this point. I provide a bit of support and encouragement, but my life has to move forward and I want to be happy. It’s just not possible to be held back indefinitely by someone who can’t move their lives forward. He has to want it enough to change.

  92.  #92Lovergirl on June 12, 2015 at 8:47 am


    I think its interesting that he said that to you. I would feel frustrated too, but maybe its the beginning of change for him. He’s realizing he is not happy where he is. Me, I’d probably be like “hmmm, what do you think you are going to do about it” (???!!!) Lol, but I can be kind of impatient. Really though, asking a man what he thinks about something is supposed to be good, right? Maybe commiserating, like yeah it definitely feels stagnant between us and just seeing where he takes it from there.

  93.  #93Sami Wunder on June 12, 2015 at 9:36 am

    Hi Indigo!

    Listen to him but don´t try to help him! I´ve also been through such a phase with my man in the beginning of our relationship and your ONLY job right now is to be the happiest version of yourself, focus on your new found excitement and goals and not get sucked into his misery.

    This builds attraction. This builds the tension – its what a man needs to propel himself forward towards a woman ( if he is the man for you!) Love, Sami

  94.  #94Denise on June 12, 2015 at 10:31 am

    Hi Rori,
    I am in a relationship where we are so sexually connected and care a lot about each other. I have told him I Love Him and he hasn’t said it to me but I know there are feelings there. We recently distanced ourselves from each other as I pushed him away because I wanted more from the relationship and I know I don’t have his heart. Please help me as I am so In Love with this Man. He is a lost man emotionally and is a good man.
    Please read his text below and help me to respond:
    Hi Denise. I know you don’t understand why I’m doing or acting like I am. Sometimes I don’t know why I’m acting the way I am. I think its really about what you wanted and I couldn’t give it or was afraid to give it. I don’t know if thatmakes any sense to you or me. I hope you know that I do care about you a lot.
    Please help me to win his heart. I read your material and know I need to be who I am and Happy with myself in order for him to be secure with me but I don’t know how to do that.
    Broken Hearted,

  95.  #95Femininewoman on June 12, 2015 at 11:43 am

    Indigo – look up Virginia Feingold Clark on the internet. There is a lot about her.

  96.  #96Labbit on June 12, 2015 at 1:08 pm

    You know Indigo, just to add to what Sami Wunder has said, one thing that I have noticed for myself is that the tension — the GOOD kind of tension, where I can feel Tender pulling back a little bit before he propels himself to the next level with me, has always felt really really BAD to me.

    I suppose this is why I leaned forward so much in the past. I feel bad so much of the time right now, even though I know in my heart something truly awesome is on the horizon. Even though I ‘know’ intellectually that I should treat this as excitement instead, it’s so hard!! I constantly feel the tug of his energy moving away from me, then back again, and it’s both distracting and tiring to me. And this is 100 times better than it used to be! LOL.

    All I can say is treat yourself exceptionally well right now, and don’t focus on him. Who knows what your focus on you could inspire in him? Or some other fabulous man?

  97.  #97Femininewoman on June 12, 2015 at 2:08 pm

    Indigo here’s a link to her site.


    If you find her story with her man I encourage you to read it.

  98.  #98Sassy on June 12, 2015 at 3:13 pm



    Right there with you!

  99.  #99Sassy on June 12, 2015 at 3:18 pm

    Missing Andrea, Kyla, Mistea1, Elsie, Radlove, Mercedes, Darla

    I’m sure there are other voices we haven’t heard from lately.

    I hope they chime in and let us know how they are and where they are in their journeys!

  100.  #100Mistea1 on June 12, 2015 at 6:16 pm

    Aww, I’m glad someone misses me!!

    I did the going to a foreign country thing. Kind of like joining the French Foreign Legion to get out of difficulty at home. It was the best thing I did for that situation. It was a breath of fresh air and I had fun and adventures.

    The fellow was so passive that he never contacted me even though he knows my brother. Years later I visited that town again and looked him up on the internet. Same old, same old, It helped my energy increase to get out from his influence. He never remarried. He looked all dried up. No interest there.

    Azure Blu, What a so and so that Spirit turned out to be. I’ll keep that information handy incase I need it!!

    I’m still having a bit of an addictive response, now down to every few days. I read somewhere that when addicts go back to the old environment they tend to relapse. I returned library books last week and of course ran into him in the hall. We both said a polite “Hello” and kept on moving. Also, I learned it is best not to dwell or reminisce on the other.

    Within the next month I will be permantly at the third church and happily in their choir. Whew! What a trip. I hope I never have to go through that again. But I did learn a lot.

    I am taking a muic composition course, playing my keyboard, singing and recovering from a pulled trap. trying out line dancing of all things, LOL.

    Hi to Victoria, Labbit, Sassy, Feminine woman, Kim, Lovergirl, Andrea, Millie, Beloved and all.

  101.  #101Linda on June 12, 2015 at 8:20 pm

    Millie’s comment earlier about choosing to life without a significant other or companion really struck me. I think that this is what has chosen me. I really dont want to accept it.

    My life is full. I learned to love and value myself. I do want to share my life with someone else , be really special and important to each other. THere is that place in me that hold its ground wanting what seems elusive and reaching out for has brought with it so much grief and sadness into my life.

    I am not afraid to admit that I am tired.. and discouraged.

  102.  #102Tereana on June 12, 2015 at 8:44 pm

    I am in a soup

  103.  #103Indigo on June 13, 2015 at 12:05 am

    Sami Wunder,

    Thank you so much for sharing your advice with me. You have a really self-assured, high value vibe which I appreciate.


    Thank you, you know I always love what you have to say! It is so nice to read how things have got better for you, and I’m sure they will continue to do so.

    Just to what both you Sami and Labbit are saying, I feel as if my focus has naturally shifted from D in the last few weeks. And this is how I would have wanted it. I didn’t have to try particularly hard or struggle, or have to wrench my heart and thoughts away from him like I did in the past. I’ve just felt naturally more inspired in my own life. I’m in a new job that I love and that has a lot to do with it. It’s a brand new field too so I’m learning things almost daily and so I feel engaged and stimulated for the first time in years. It’s a lovely feeling. I’ve also started “dressing up” for work every day – putting together an outfit and wearing my best shoes and doing my make-up and hair, whereas in the past I couldn’t be bothered. I honestly just seemed to pass through my days at work in a fog of disconnection, and it was so much easier to laser-focus on a man. So all of this new excitement has naturally helped me feel more excited about my own life – that together with buying and decorating a new apartment for the first time, and thinking seriously about travelling. There’s also a gorgeous guy at work (we’re a tiny company) and every time we talk or he helps me with something he’s so kind and gentle and it makes me feel feminine and treasured somehow. I’ve started devoting time on the weekends just to grooming and self-pampering, and I’m trying, albeit with not a huge amount of luck, to make new friends and areas of interest.

    So all of this I feel has naturally shifted my focus and got me thinking about what I really want from my life. It’s kind of great 🙂

  104.  #104Millie on June 13, 2015 at 12:16 am

    Feeling really triggery and emotional today.

    I decided not to go out tonight, was feeling very tired and in need of rest, plus it’s that time of the month. I came and watched a movie, made dinner, cleaned, and had a good cry. The tears just started coming with every little trigger, every little memory. I am feeling my feelings…and I have a lot of pent up anger at things that aren’t changeable, things that exist and that makes me feel frustrated on top of it. I feel anger and frustration towards the idea of attachment. And I think it’s time to admit that I feel deeply hurt by M. Others may think my feelings aren’t warranted, being the relationship only lasted 3 months, but regardless, I feel deeply hurt. And I feel angry, I don’t even know at what or who, just angry! Angry that I feel like a victim, angry that I feel responsible at the same time, that this is what attachment leads to…and it makes me not want to get attached to anyone or any experience again. I’ve been thinking about experience as a huge vehicle of attachment for me. I get attached to an environment, a mood, the feeling of being around that person in that environment, the music playing that day, what we ate, the little routines that form. It’s not even being attached to that person, as much as it getting attached to everything else around that person. When I meet someone new and I go to their place, I always wonder if its the last time I’m going to step into that space. It’s almost like I don’t want to get comfortable, I don’t want to hope, I don’t want to feel like “it’s going somewhere” because once you step on that train…it’s really going to hurt when you fall off. I have to be ready to say goodbye every time I see them and that takes so much energy to not allow myself to fall into it. And I feel angry at myself for thinking this– because you have to take risks to find love. Getting hurt is part of the process as much as I resent that. And it’s unfair to project any of my pain onto future men. And I was thinking today, men have pain too…they have had breakups like mine, I’m not completely alone in how I feel. But I’m scared to open up about it right now, to a man. My negative voices are already telling me that no one wants to hear this, that they are going to leave, that’s it’s only a matter of time before they lose interest. I mean, if M lost interest and he adored me like the sun loves the sky, what hope is there for anyone else? And these new guys, don’t contact me enough for me to feel like they are truly interested, which of course makes me want to wall up even more and I’m not sure how to say I want more contact because isn’t that what pushed M away–my asking, my needing….my emotional issues. I’m venting. Well, my negative voices are venting-so keep that in mind–this is negative voice rant, not sound Millie rant.

    I don’t really see right now, how to visualize a lasting relationship. All I see are people shutting down and leaving. And not just because of M, I have a whole book of it. And I’m scared of that happening again. I’m scared to trust someone who one day is there and the next just isn’t. But that’s the risk. It just is. And there is no point in resisting a fact.

    Anyway, I feel better feeling my feelings. Wow how many times can I use feel in a sentence. I do like being alone and just letting all the negativity wash over me and through me, leaves me, until it circles back again.

  105.  #105Femininewoman on June 13, 2015 at 3:15 am

    Yaaasss Indigo.

    Once you give yourself that mental permission to just walk away, anything and everything is possible. You are so loving worthy of all the goodies your heart desires.

  106.  #106Indigo on June 13, 2015 at 3:50 am

    Feminine Woman,

    Thank you for this 🙂 I feel like it’s just a natural growth that’s happened as my heart has felt confident enough to pursue the things it wants. I had dearly hoped D would come along for the ride, but I think this is just a case of us being at two totally different stages of our growth.

  107.  #107Indigo on June 13, 2015 at 4:00 am


    I just wanted to let you know you are so not alone in this.

    I think sometimes we interpret the advice on here to mean that our needy or negative feelings are bad, and that we need to keep them in check somehow or we’ll push a man away. I have found that there is great power and forward movement in just welcoming and allowing ALL those feelings without judgment. Not judging yourself as wrong for having them, not judging yourself as wrong for letting other people see them, and not judging yourself as wrong for expressing them. Just letting them and yourself be.

    They do eventually dissipate, I promise, maybe not as fast or as much as we would like, but they do. And there’s no need to feel any sense of shame or rejection for having felt them. I am learning to just say, you know what this is me and this is how I feel. And let’s get one thing clear – you didn’t drive M away with your needy, wanting feelings. I can almost assure you he was going to leave anyway. But I think you may want to get good at not judging yourself so harshly, because then other people will also tend to be gentler on you as well. That’s just how it works.

    Sending good vibes.

  108.  #108IamHis on June 13, 2015 at 5:51 am

    Triggered. I don’t know what I would tell the girl in this post, but I think I see it differently than Rori maybe?

    Feel triggered because communication is a huge issue for me. I’m a very verbal person until I’m interested in someone. Once this happens, it feels like an elephant is sitting on my chest.

    I don’t know how to talk about my positive feelings or my fears.

    I just go quiet and avoid or something?

    & I can relate to feeling more peaceful being away from someone I care about. But once I’ve truly lost that same person I initially felt relief from, I feel grief, anger, & pure loneliness inside.

    This feels deeper, a huge fear of intimacy.

  109.  #109IamHis on June 13, 2015 at 5:52 am

    I feel scared and sad talking about this.

  110.  #110Azure Blu on June 13, 2015 at 6:36 am

    Wow!! Those are MY feelings too…
    When i get close to a man I
    have to fight that elephant to get off my chest…
    to be able to talk about what is good
    and what I want…
    I know I’m getting better…
    and this is where Rori’s Tools
    are helping sooooooo much!!
    Hang in there darling
    Your learning and practicing every day…

  111.  #111Azure Blu on June 13, 2015 at 6:52 am

    Welcome back… so great to hear your siren song here!!!
    So good to hear about all the juicy things you have brought into your life!!

    Thank you for your thoughts on Spirit! :-((
    I am struggling with the heart break….
    I did still have deep feelings for him when I broke it off
    and then to be summarily dropped on my but* without a word!!

    Working through relieving the emotional pain…
    But truley believing I am Lucky to have avoided that train wreck!

    What has helped me is getting back online and putting a few new photos… tweaking my profile…
    reading Evan Katz – he is an online dating guru
    from a mans perspective…
    I find his insights motivational – to Keep looking!!!
    Of course it’s going to take time to meet the right man… I’m looking for someone special – that takes time and effort
    I have missed a couple of phone dates… one dropped me and the other said “ohh.. what’s the big deal lovely lady, I’ve forgotten it and let’s meet now!!!” (that was yesterday)
    Of course I couldn’t but we’re meeting today…
    He sounds lively and sincere and easy to talk to…

    Met another man yesterday… So great to discuss politics with someone who is closer to my thoughts AND it was an actual discussion – NOT a monologue like with Spirit…
    Such a kind and caring man… a HS teacher who spends so much time making sure his students are successful!!
    But,… He didn’t ask for a second date… 🙁

    Many more to talk to on the phone… and
    I’m enjoying the quality of the group of men I am attracting this time around…
    I’ve gotten so much better at reading profiles and weeding out the ones that are probably wrong for me…
    YAY me!!!

  112.  #112Indigo on June 13, 2015 at 7:05 am


    Nice to see you here.

    It feels nice to read about all the new interests you have going in your life.

    Azure Blu,

    Probably my own trigger, so please feel free to disregard, but I hate it when a man I’ve just met calls me lovely lady. It makes me feel he’s forgotten my name. In my mind I picture him sending the same text to 10 other women.

  113.  #113Azure Blu on June 13, 2015 at 8:09 am

    ohhh… darlin Siren,
    I accept all compliments… “lovely lady” and all!!! :-))

    When we talked yesterday- JAcd- on the phone- he is one of the few guys that actually used my name often… !!!

    Spirit hardly ever called me by my name… i missed that… When he did I made a big fuss about how I love hearing him say my name in his deep sexy voice… in that instance he didn’t change’
    wondering if he might have been worried about calling me by the wrong name… :-))

    Still my heart is sooo hurt…
    giving me LOTS of huggs love and pampering…

    I had too much to drink on Thurs… fun over the top soire at a local hotel… live steel drum band( I love),
    lots of my friends, GREAT food!! so fun
    anyway… I broke my rule and text Spirit…
    Ughh… of course no response!!!
    What I am noticing everytime i do that
    It throws me back… i feel more ignored and unloved and rejected and invisible!!
    Sooo I know I won’t be doing that again!

  114.  #114Starla on June 13, 2015 at 9:13 am

    Labbit 93, wow, this is exactly how i feel about it.. The tiring party especially. Thanks for the reminder to get excited instead.

  115.  #115IamHis on June 13, 2015 at 11:28 am

    ((((Azure Blu))))) – Thanks for letting me know I’m not alone! I felt kind of embarrassed admitting all that. I feel relief in finding empathy.

    & boy energy is whining “whyyyyy are you like this?” It wants to dig deep and dirty and uncover the all the buried stuff and fix the problem because that’s what boys do!

    I love my boy. I love my embarrasment. I even love our invisible elephants! We’re lucky to have such protective animals with us!

    Oh I feel so curious. Is this why men have been more protective of me lately? Because I’m allowing it?

    That feels really good to consider!

    & I’m realizing that lately the men who I draw in who I also feel drawn to aren’t big with words. Which also feels so curious because I love words so much I practically worship them.

    But they seem to feel less necessary lately? Touch and body language and facial expressions and just feelings themselves feel more important lately. I’m learning that I really can trust my intuition and that feels so empowering if not a little scary! But it mostly feels good!

  116.  #116Indigo on June 13, 2015 at 12:57 pm

    Azure Blu,

    I get a huge kick out of hearing guys say my name. I don’t know why but it feels wonderful. I feel seen and important and special.

    I’m sorry you felt rejected and unlovable by Spirit! Sometimes it’s worth it to make those “mistakes” just so you know it doesn’t feel good. x

  117.  #117Andrea on June 13, 2015 at 2:39 pm

    Hi Everyone! Siren song of solitary, sensitive soul.
    : )
    I feel estranged from life as I knew it and thought it would be. I feel like a stranger on the path I created.

    So, I quit everything.

    I quit the new job I thought would make me so happy. Quit my pursuit of a relationship. Quit “friends” I thought I needed. Quit … partly on my own self, my health, my work outs, my diet.

    And I took on a job cleaning dorm rooms through out the summer. Moved into a home that is suitable and with in walking or biking distance of important things. And am trying to build myself back up again from…. scratch?

    I feel relieved. I feel tiny shards of forgotten power. I feel alone, but not so much lonely. I feel I’m starting over again with very little except wisdom. Material goods, money, men, ambition… have all left me. I even missed the last two poetry slam competitions.

    But I’m introspective and more focused on my feelings. I feel weary but hopeful. I feel old, but only half way through. I feel sad, but smiling.

    Strange, but not devastated.

    Wanted to say hello to all and hopefully, now that my computer is back up and running, I’ll be a presence once more.

  118.  #118Senior Lady Vibe on June 13, 2015 at 2:47 pm

    @96: Sassy:

    My journey? Well…
    I’m enjoying and celebrating a touch stone, landmark, leading edge (hey, it’s BIG) birthday month. 🙂


  119.  #119Millie on June 13, 2015 at 3:44 pm

    Yay Andrea!!! I feel happy seeing your voice again!

  120.  #120Sassy on June 13, 2015 at 4:20 pm


    Ladies, thank you! It feels so good to see your names come up and witness a small part of your journeys.

    Mistea1, yay for you walking on by…time heals all wounds or is it time wounds all heels….

    Andrea, you sound as if you are in the middle of a huge internal “growth spurt”. I look forward to hearing your sweet voice on the blog again. You have a wonderful way of expressing yourself.

    And SLV!!! Always so good to see you! A BIG LANDMARK HAPPY BIRTHDAY WISH TO YOU. I hope it’s fabulous.

    I have been on this blog since 2010 and I do believe SLV was one of the first posts I ever read!

    And Starla, always love to see your name pop up. You have always felt like a “daughter” to me! So glad you are in a happy place.

    Purple Passion, how are you? I think of you often and how truly devastated you were.

  121.  #121Lovergirl on June 13, 2015 at 4:32 pm


    I feel numb. I kind of wish I could let myself feel the pain of the things that happened with S, but I keep pushing it aside. Every time he comes to my mind, my stomach feels tied in knots, I feel sick, I just want to forget. My heart just sinks when I think of him. I haven’t heard back since I told him how upset I felt. Perhaps he just doesn’t care. I don’t want to think about it.

    Instead I am filling my time and doing things that maybe I shouldn’t, to get my mind off it all. Last night I slept with two men. One was the boring guy. The other is a married man that I have been with in the past. I tell myself it doesn’t matter because he is a serial cheater and I’m not emotionally attached. He’s good in bed too but I’m not completely without guilt.

  122.  #122Dominique on June 13, 2015 at 5:00 pm

    Andrea – 114 – How AWESOME!!! There is big change afoot for so many people I know, myself included, and I think you starting over from scratch is not only incredibly brave but also amazingly wonderful. YAY you!!!

    Much love to you.

  123.  #123Senior Lady Vibe on June 13, 2015 at 5:09 pm

    Thanks! Time flies, doesn’t it. Tempus fugit — I think back in 2010 that would have flooded the blog stream in italics… LOL

    Hope your ch-ch-changes afoot are fabulous ones.


  124.  #124MissStix on June 13, 2015 at 7:12 pm

    I am around 😉
    In cognito, working through some stuff.
    Maybe just saying that will blow my “cover”. lol

  125.  #125FemMagic on June 13, 2015 at 9:54 pm

    Good evening, ladies.

    I have two questions/concerns.
    First, how do I open up to men? I feel like I’ve closed myself off. Online dating is a breeze (not to toot my own horn). But in actual day-to-day interactions, meeting the kind of men I wish to be involved with isn’t happening. So how do I change my energy and make myself more open and receptive to the male energy around me?

    Second, an ex reached out. And to be honest, the simple fact that I’ve put so much thought in it to come here and post is probably a sign. We haven’t seen each other in two years but I’ve thought about him…often. He emailed. Said he had been putting off contacting me in hopes that we would bump into each other. He finds himself thinking about me from time to time. He wonders how I’m doing, am I married and starting a family. (I’m not. I’m trying to open myself up to the men around me.) How my family and work are doing. We catch up and it was nice. I tell him not to be a stranger and he says the same but then, I guess in trying to hang on to the exchange, I send another message. No reply yet, which is cool. I will say, I have hoped that I’d bump into him also and have thought about us reconnecting. But I wonder…on his end, is this just a general check-in or something else?

  126.  #126Indigo on June 13, 2015 at 11:13 pm


    I just wanted to resonate with you because I’m also in a stage of big change in my life, and I am actually a big believer in the whole “scratch everything” way of doing things. I think there is so much pressure on us to have it all together (whatever “it” is) and there is such power in just cutting loose. I know you will find your answers if you follow your heart. Mine are coming to me.

    Last night I crossed another longstanding item off my list – I went out to dinner with a big group of people the majority of whom I did not know and it was really kind of lovely. They were welcoming and friendly and interested in me, and we all just sat around chatting and eating and drinking. There was no pressure to drink or be rowdy or go out partying or any of those other things I’ve long outgrown, if they ever held any appeal for me at all. One of the girls opened up to me about a heartbreak and I felt very honoured. They have low key girls’ nights once a month and they said they’d add me to the group, and I think this will be good for my soul.

  127.  #127Labbit on June 14, 2015 at 8:24 am

    101 Millie — I never really felt like the contact I was getting from men in the beginning was enough, either. Even now anything short of everyday contact leaves me feeling a bit miffed. The only way I was able to work around this was by flooding myself with potential dates during the early dating days. I used a method EMK talks about…I can’t remember the exact numbers he suggests but it’s something like 1 hour per day online dating, during which I’d respond to 5-6 messages, ‘like’ back 25-30 guys and set up 1 phone call per date evening, 4-5 nights a week. So on any given day I could have been speaking with 5-10 men.

    I had to make it so that there were so many men to keep my mind occupied that I couldn’t focus on just one. And in the early dating phases my brain didn’t care whether it was one guy coming towards me or many, so long as I got the attention if that makes any sense. Even with dates, I would go on 3-4 dates a week or sometimes more. It was immensely helpful because even after an AMAZING date (and as I got better at the tools I had many!) I would not have time to focus on any one guy, which helped me keep my emotions and hormones in check.

    We each have to do what feels to right to us…but I have to say this method didn’t feel ‘right’ to me at first…it actually felt pretty bad. It wasn’t until I really GOT putting myself first, getting super clear on what I wanted in a man and out of a relationship, that keeping myself open yet putting my emotions aside got easier. That helped me keep my walls down for longer, so that even when the defenses DID want to kick in down the road, it was already after men had developed an interest in me as a person, which helped me to work through my triggers and take the walls back down.

    It’s an ever-evolving process and the most important thing is to be kind to yourself every step of the way. It’s so cool to watch you processing through all of your feelings here, and I feel these negative vents are not something to feel bad about but rather an amazing exercise in figuring out what you really want!!! It’s not the negative feelings or anxiety or any of that that’s ‘bad.’ It is only when we push these feelings out onto our men and expect THEM to do something about it, to ‘fix’ it for us that we can get into trouble. Feeling these feelings is what you want! There are no good or bad feelings, just the meaning we give on top of what we are experiencing or feeling.

  128.  #128Labbit on June 14, 2015 at 8:35 am

    105 IamHis — What you’re talking about here is a fear of intimacy, and it’s something that nearly everyone experiences!! We have a strong desire to become intimate with someone, yet at the same time we also have a deep, primal fear of ‘losing ourselves’ as we become more intimate with someone. So that fear manifests in all kinds of odd ways…tension, anger, discomfort, fear, anxiety, whatever.

    I have experienced what you’re talking about in many dating scenarios. I start to develop feelings for a man, and all of a sudden this deep, deep fear rises up in me like I’m an antelope on the Serengeti who can feel a cheetah eyeing me from not too far away. I want to let this man get closer to me, but I’m deathly afraid he might hurt me too. So often without meaning to I’ll do things to create space — I’ll rush towards him (get clingy or waste tons of mental energy thinking about him), I’ll flee or I’ll start acting aloof with him, ANYTHING to help me feel calm again. The peace comes from the ‘danger’ of merging with another person being gone, but then that after-effect of grief, loneliness and anger comes when you realize that I’ve pushed them away and lost that intimacy I was SO craving, so truly wanting.

    The trick is learning to keep yourself whole, and you do that by filling up your life with things that make you happy (separate from him) and reducing his focus in your life. Instead of thinking about him all the time, you’re thinking about you. This strong sense of self allows you to open up and let a man reach in and touch your heart, without either you or he feeling like you’re losing yourself in the process. It’s kind of like OMG OMG this man is getting close to me and I want him to but no I don’t want him too and I’m so scared and I can’t breathe and yet I feel this solidness inside of me…he’s coming close and I’m not hurting, I can choose how long he comes close for and what we do when he wants to come close. I get to choose when it’s too much to handle and when I’ve had enough.

    It’s the tree trunk inside that Rori talks about. It gives you something secure and strong to lean against when those fears of intimacy come up! And the great news is that it’s something we can all build up inside, no matter how impossible it may seem. 🙂

  129.  #129Labbit on June 14, 2015 at 8:46 am

    Part of my next big step with Tender came last nite! I could feel that something was brewing. He took me for a very nice dinner at a fancier restaurant than we normally go to, and then we came home to watch a movie. Normally we pick the movie together but this time he was very adamant about watching a particular movie…a movie that was shot in a locale that we’d both been talking about wanting to visit.

    After the movie as we were getting ready for bed, Tender asked me to go on a 2-week vacation next month with him to the location from the movie!! I felt shocked…he’s been talking about how concerned he feels about money recently and this is a pretty big expense. When I asked (in a not-feeling message way AT ALL, oops) about the money, Tender replied that him feeling so tight about cash was EXACTLY the reason we needed to do this, so he could relax somewhere away from all his stresses and feel abundant again. And he wants me by his side to do that…awww!! I am not one of his stresses, hooray!

    He must have been keeping this secret for at least a few weeks because the MOMENT I said yes he booked our air tickets, showed me a hotel he’d found online that looked good, made reservations there, AND showed me a place to go zip-lining and when I said yes to that he booked THAT too. THEN we finally relaxed and went to bed, haha. After his invite it was like we both opened up, released something.

    I feel weightless today, like all of my bones are gone and I’m just a big pile of content mush.

  130.  #130Labbit on June 14, 2015 at 8:57 am

    101 Millie — Just to add, I believe you have mentioned reading Leigha Lake’s stuff here, and it was reading through the archives on her site and her e-book that truly helped me get my head around what it meant to be focused on me, what kind of effect that has and how important it is to get clear on what we want and set those intentions. I can’t explain it but once I started making decisions about what I would and would not tolerate, and more importantly BELIEVING that I could have everything I wanted, things got better and better for me.

  131.  #131Millie on June 14, 2015 at 10:34 am

    Lovergirl– Feeling pain is a process and as numb as you think you feel, your not. The sick feeling and knots in your stomach is your body trying to accept possible loss and processing it. It a multi step process. This phase will pass and you move into another phase of processing, it may manifest itself in tears or extreme sadness, then anger, then you might feel nothing.. Then happy. Our feelings are constantly changing as time passes. He is also processing things in his own way. Does sleeping with other men make you feel better? Does it make you feel anything? Perhaps you might be using these other men to keep that feeling of numbness?

  132.  #132Millie on June 14, 2015 at 10:41 am

    Labbit– thank you and I do hear and understand what you are recommending. I think if anything a mans lack of contact will keep me from getting attached, not create attachment which is a sign I know I’ve grown a lot. I don’t really want to do more online dating for now… But I think focusing on myself and rebuilding my faith is something I do need to work on. I thought when I met M that I had grown by leaps and bounds and him leaving feels like it set me back. It brought me backwards, and I need to find my own way to rebuild myself. It can’t be through another man showing up in thst way, it has to come from inside me first. That’s how I feel right now.

  133.  #133Rori Raye on June 14, 2015 at 11:59 am

    Layla, hi – on the right sidebar of “pages” theres a Directory of Coaches – try them – they’re my trained coaches, and they’re awesome! Love, Rori

  134.  #134Andrea on June 14, 2015 at 12:03 pm

    Thank you Sassy, Dominique, Millie (hugs) …
    Indigo, you so perfectly described what my heart wants right now. Just woman group, friend time.
    I have the women and the connections, I just need to make that first step.
    I’m invited to yoga tonight, right close to my home, so I’m going to try to rouse myself and go.
    I feel good being back on the blog again.

  135.  #135Lovergirl on June 14, 2015 at 1:18 pm


    I feel so happy for you and excited about the way things are going in your relationship! A vacation!! Yay!!!

    That is my new goal, lol. To get SOME man to take me on a vacation. I’m sure Chicago would, and he did fly me to Chicago but I want a vacation with a guy I am into! :p S was talking about how he wanted to take me on one the last time we had sex. So much for that. :/ I haven’t even heard back from him since that text 4 days ago where he asked how I was doing and I basically told him I feel like crap. Then…nothing.

  136.  #136Lovergirl on June 14, 2015 at 1:27 pm

    Millie 131-

    I’m really not feeling much of anything with the other men. Its just a distraction. Maybe it is to keep myself numb. The last time I was really hurt over a guy I went out and did some really risque sexual stuff and ended up regretting it.

    I hurt over him but its like I can’t even let myself cry. Woe to any man that is in my path right now because he is pretty much getting used. I feel nothing.

    I’d like to believe that S cares too, but I don’t know. How could he care and still go to that party, AFTER he knew it was upsetting me? How could he just not answer when I tell him I’m hurting? He must not care at all and I don’t want to think about or deal with it.

  137.  #137Femininewoman on June 14, 2015 at 1:54 pm

    Oh Andrea so lovely to see your name. Your comments suggested to me that your on the cusp of something huge. I wish you all the best.

  138.  #138Dixie on June 14, 2015 at 4:21 pm

    Oh Lovergirl,

    My heart aches for you. I agree with Millie, are you doing what feels good, or are you trying to avoid the numbness?

    I have felt that way too, and I suspect most of us have. I know that feeling of not being able to peel myself out of bed over heartache and grief. I know that awful, sinking, sad feeling. We’ve all been there, Lovergirl..

    All I can speak from is my own experience. And I would tell my 7 year ago self, to be kind to myself, to not rush into a sub-par 🙂 encounter because in the end, those felt crappy, and I KNEW I wasn’t looking out for my inner girl who was really just a bundle of tears, who needed to be held and comforted more than lackluster rebound sex.

    So, if I was talking to myself, I would say Dear one, go find your friends. Tell them you need a girl night. Find your family and cuddle them. Sink into all those soupy feelings with people who you trust, and who love you. Let your inner boy do the flexing here: make sure he takes you out of the house, make sure he takes you out for runs, make sure he looks after the part that is hurting. Let all the soft feelings show. And keep your heart open.

    This man may come back, and he may not. But YOU are growing your heart muscles here by taking exquisite care of you. Men are still sensitive and caring people… I believe that. But your job is to look after YOU, not worry about a man who is waffling.

    Dearest Lovergirl, take care of YOU, don’t look at his online
    activity, don’t look in his direction at all. Dont worry or wonder about him.

    I know it’s so hard! But it gets easier a bit with each moment. You need a giant hug, it sounds like, not blah sex with men who don’t adore you.

    The love you crave dear one starts with yourself. That will set the bar for any man that comes your way. Perhaps S is simply not ready now, and any change will be on his time. In the meantime, take care of yourself the way you want and need to be taken care of. Be easy and kind and loving to yourself. Xox

  139.  #139Mistea1 on June 14, 2015 at 5:55 pm

    Sassy 120,
    Yes, wouldn’t that be nice, “wounds all heels.” I like it. Shoot, he’s a peasant masquerading as a playboy. I got to know about a few of his harem. Nothing special. What was I thinking?

    Today, I went to the service b/c he was playing Mozart’s fantasie in f-minor, another fiendishly difficult piece to learn. Interestingly, I also listened to others play it on You tube. In comparison, his was not that tremendous. I must be off the sauce at last!!

    I also went because another woman in our group was moving away and I wanted to say good-by. As I worked my way over to her he came at me from the left. I turned away and waited my turn to talk to her. He would have had to tap me on the shoulder to get my attention, which he did not.

    Next week I get accepted into the other church. There, Happy Puppy, the music intern who was a child protegy, (Organ) and Big Dog, the Organist, music Director are both decent guys and the choir made me feel welcome.

    I’m going to start a Centering Prayer meditation group and am working on a community program for meditation and how one can use meditation to make some changes in ones life. I’m looking forward to it.

    Dixie 137,

    Oh, I really loved what you said, Beautiful. I have been doing that too, to heal from all this other. I cat sat last week and spent 5 days cuddling with the most accepting little purr ball. What a sweety and it was sooo healing for me. Even though she was a long hair and I brushed and swept and I still left with a mouth full of cat hair, it was worth it.

    Azure Blu,
    Congratulations, to you for getting on out there with the dating. I don’t think I have the guts yet to try again. Maybe later.

  140.  #140Violette on June 14, 2015 at 7:08 pm

    I feel a rumbling in the earth under my feet, a cosmic power trembling through me. Something deep and intense seems to be playing out inside of me.

    6 years ago the man I wanted to love forever and have babies with and who made me dream of marriage, the only man who ever has done that, revealed himself to secretly be a serious alcoholic and brutally broke up with me 2 weeks after I moved in with him.

    These last years have been about rebuilding my life. Everything fell apart. I have all new friends, an all new city, and I’m clawing my way back to my career again.

    M took me to a party last night. I felt exactly like I was back in that old relationship again. Similarly, it turns out he has an enormous circle of prominent, accomplished, attractive, even famous friends. Similarly it turns out they all have this…drunk, yelling over each other to outdo the other, pretending to do stuff to each other with their genitals vibe. Similarly the women match this vibe and were gorgeous but had no femininity from my view. Similarly they all talked amongst themselves and ignored me. M’s date, none of them were interested in me. This reflects on the fakeness of their friendship with him too.

    The level of judging that is oozing out of my pores is ferocious. I feel like a raging lioness JUDGING with all the spite of the ages. I am venomous.

    I literally can’t believe this has happened to me again. In that old relationship I invested so much in trying to make his friends like me, I put up with being ignored at countless parties, and feeling like I wasn’t worth getting to know because I wasn’t screaming about myself over everybody and drunk. And when he dumped me not a one of them even seemed to notice I was gone. And it messed with some deep seated issue of mine so badly that I haven’t been my old self since.

    And here it is again. THAT.

  141.  #141Violette on June 14, 2015 at 7:15 pm

    The funny thing is my life is so full of boring work that feels like a chore, far too little of a social life, stress. That my attraction to M is largely that he has this lively dynamic social life that is so filled with useful networking. And fascination colorful people.

    And he shows it to me and I about crumple on the spot.

    He was mostly with me but there were a couple of times he left me alone to sit with his friends who were making no effort at all to include me. I was outside the circle and couldn’t even really hear what they were saying. Not that it seemed interesting to me. But at least I wanted to have fun!

    It was painful.

    I felt the air between us change. I don’t know how he felt sharing me with his friends. We haven’t really known each other long. I don’t know. And I felt…ANGRY with him. And knew it was inappropriate and that it wasn’t the time to express anything to him.

    I thanked him for taking me to a party. I asked him if he’d noticed that I’d been uncomfortable, and I told him the groups that now each other thing is uncomfortable for me. He replied…yeah, that’s tough.


    It was all I could do not to throw something at him. I hated him (M) in that moment.

    I did make a couple of jabs, caustic humor…at certain points in the night. I know he felt it.

  142.  #142Violette on June 14, 2015 at 7:18 pm

    I don’t feel I could share any of this with him. I feel certain he wouldn’t get it, and that his friends will always win over me. He needs that, the affirmation of the cool kids. And I am not one of them. I have no desire AT ALL to be.

    M…I like him. The smell I didn’t like, well I don’t smell it anymore. He makes me life, like…the real thing. He is actually very funny. He’s not really attractive but he’s growing on me. He played me the violin. It was exquisite. He’s brilliant at it.

    I feel lost in a roiling pot of past and present and future. There is so much that has come up to heal. And I want with all my heart to learn not to judge anyone here, and not to find myself bending over backwards to try to fit it here.

  143.  #143Violette on June 14, 2015 at 7:20 pm

    Thrillingly, I feel this even is happening either to heal my past, or as a message that the past is healed.

    I know I will process this and it is already somehow finding it’s way towards freeing me. Like I’ve never been freed before.

  144.  #144Violette on June 14, 2015 at 7:27 pm

    Because…having this memory…restored, seems to be reintroducing me to the girl I lost in that experience. And I have missed her unspeakably. She’s been unleashed back into my hear.

  145.  #145Mistea1 on June 14, 2015 at 7:40 pm


    Interesting post you have here. I’ve just been through similar. I relate to the feeling being on the outside of things. This one made sure I knew that I was not included in his group. I just wanted to hear the music.

    I don’t want to get triggered too much so I’ll just say that if you have the guts you can find out what this experience has to teach you about some issues in your past and do whatever technique you know of to work through them. I found it enormously helpful. I did have to access a mental health professional for a bit but after 5 months of active contact and 7 months of no contact (rebuffing him when he tried to breach it) I’m feeling pretty decent now. However, I am actively moving away from even seeing him in the distance. Good luck to you.
    Try not to get too caught up in his chaosness because it is very hard to get out of the influence.

  146.  #146Allure on June 14, 2015 at 9:22 pm

    I feel grateful for good movies and snacks. For a window into my lovers feelings for me. For energetic attractions and sexuality. I feel grounded to the earth. Humming. Always buzzing. Tingling, static energy, thrumming. Tempting triggers for strings of thought. I can focus on feeling grounded. Strong center. Sink into that.
    I want to walk alone in the dwindling daylight, under the ombre sky. Alone with my feelings. Can I do that?
    It’s so unnecessarily poetic…I just want to feel the elements and escape.
    Can I just get dressed and say “hey baby, I’m going for a walk”? I think I can just do that…
    Ok, i’m pumping myself up! lol

  147.  #147IamHIs on June 14, 2015 at 10:17 pm

    I feel angry and hopeless and sad reading it, but at least I also feel not alone. How do you FIX problems like this? I read somewhere that you just have to date people you are not into and allow yourself to feel all the discomfort that goes with that.

    Sounds wonderful, right?


  148.  #148IamHIs on June 14, 2015 at 10:39 pm

    I relate most to the last example, the “Not Being Able to Sustain Prolonged Intimacy” Can’t Let Love In Partner.

    I’m sure others will relate to other examples. and I know, CDING is the answer. I just wish it could feel more fun. It feels like so much work, so much ickiness and weeding out.

    I know I’m at a healthier place than I was, in some ways, but I still don’t want to put myself out there online. As far in person interactions, I love them for the most part, until I have to start opening up about who I am and why I’m so inexperienced and why I have so many issues and why I believe this or that or why why why and it just feels exhausting and I constantly feel like I’m judging and being judged and I’m just sick of it. I just want to BE. I don’t even want to talk anymore.

    and being triggered all the time. You’re supposed to be triggered all the time though, aren’t you?

    I’m triggered because I look younger than I am, and then I feel like guys freak out when they realize how old I am. Which isn’t even that old!

    It’s just the age where you feel like you should be more settled, accomplished, grounded, know who you are. I honestly feel more like a twenty year old, which is maybe why I seem to be pulling in that age group. I feel like there’s just this huge decade of my life that was just lost to desperate searching and grief and confusion.

  149.  #149IamHIs on June 14, 2015 at 10:40 pm

    I just want to have fun. and talking about all of my intimacy fears and inner crap and beliefs and inexperience is NOT FUN.

  150.  #150IamHIs on June 14, 2015 at 10:48 pm

    I mean, what is the big deal? So what if I’m inexperienced? I’m FREAKING AWESOME and I have insights and gifts and a wonderful essence of being.

    I am delightfully unpredictable. Moody. Sad, tense, angry, embarrassed, giggly, tired, hyper, happy, I LOVE IT ALL and I want someone who LOVES IT ALL too.


  151.  #151Allure on June 14, 2015 at 11:43 pm

    That felt really good. Energizing. Another little step towards hearing myself and caring for myself. The hypnotic water, fresh breeze and sunset. The sounds of humans enjoying a cool evening after a hot day.
    I felt self aware and sometimes tense in my jaw and tongue and shoulders. I felt myself walking too fast, some non existent urgent purpose. I breathed deeply, slowed down, connected to the planet through my feet. It is still an effort to relax and allow myself to fly above the radar.
    Lost in my head. I feel sleepy. Heavy eyes. Dull ache throbbing in my head. I want to dream about uncharted shores. Luscious foam lapping soft sands. The sensation of warm connection.
    It is the strangest experience…
    Looping thoughts. Now i’m over-analyzing. That’s the last thing I want to do.
    I feel lost in space. Staring at nothing pondering everything. Contemplating complete aloneness. Sometimes I feel posessed. As in owned. I feel trapped sometimes. Tethered to a sense of owing myself as a being to someones life. I don’t want that. I feel queasy. I attach these feelings to concepts that are easier to cope with. Guilt, fear, demands.
    I’m so good at this the less I try the easier it is. I wonder why it is all given. I know i’m taking everything for granted and I fear losing it all.
    Something is creeping back in telling me to run away. If I choose to give up everything for aloneness… What then?
    And it all rings like *courage* in my head.
    I feel very confused. Calm confusion.

  152.  #152Tereana on June 15, 2015 at 12:52 am

    Labbitt (129) – that is so cool! Yay you!!

    And I don’t think that we literally HAVE to speak in feeling messages ALL the time. A.) that would not be possible. And b.) somerimes it’s not necessary. In fact, with the money thing, perhaps it was best NOT to add emotion to the question. Money can already be emotinal. So keeping it factual and grounded could have allowed him to open up about the feelings he was having – which it sounds like he did! Yay! And anyway, it sounds like you are doing a great job of being in receiving mode.

    So happy for you! 🙂

  153.  #153Tereana on June 15, 2015 at 1:00 am

    As you know, for many years I’ve been meeting Indian men. And enjoying it. And now I seem to have a new theme: Moroccan guys. Not sure if I trust them totally. The last one was the guy who turned out to be married. My cab driver just asked for my number. Turns out he’s Moroccan. Not sure if I’ll go out with him.

    But I did a cool thing. In the cab ride home from the airport, I was sitting in the cab, being quiet. I felt an urge to say something clever, start a conversation, fill the space. But I didn’t. I noticed the urge, but I didn’t follow through with it. And then he started talking to *me.* He asked me about my flight. He was making conversation. I let him talk to me.

    Truth be told, I thought he was kind of cute. Even if his car looked a little worse for wear. He did get me home. And now he has my number, but…no promises

  154.  #154IamHIs on June 15, 2015 at 4:53 am

    @128 Labbit – Reading this, this felt so true.

    “wasting tons of mental energy.” yes. I feel icky admitting it, and I felt icky once I “woke up” and realized that was what I was doing.

    I felt such a huge need for space, to feel like myself again, more grounded, and yet I’m finding it difficult.

    I just want to learn, and I feel like I can’t learn.

    I feel completely lost and out of control and stuck.

    I feel angry and exhausted. I’m so tired of my life constantly changing. At the same time, feeling stuck is one of the worst feelings I can recall. The monotony and sameness of days can feel soul crushing.

    “This strong sense of self allows you to open up and let a man reach in and touch your heart, without either you or he feeling like you’re losing yourself in the process. It’s kind of like OMG OMG this man is getting close to me and I want him to but no I don’t want him too and I’m so scared and I can’t breathe and yet I feel this solidness inside of me…he’s coming close and I’m not hurting, I can choose how long he comes close for and what we do when he wants to come close. I get to choose when it’s too much to handle and when I’ve had enough. ”

    I feel so angry and sad, because I’ve never felt this way. I often go through periods where it’s like I literally cannot remember who I am, and the only thing that fixes it is talking to people who have known me for a really long time. and then I feel better, remember, and it’s like “oh, okay. I’m okay. I remember who I am now.”


    I feel myself numbing out right now.

    It’s like I don’t want to deal with reality. I just want to numb out what I’m feeling through watching TV shows and reading books and just trying to understand humanity, which I don’t.

    Or maybe I do, but I’m just not overly impressed.

    But you know, I am impressed sometimes.

    Sometimes I can’t believe how amazing and kind and understanding people are, and that includes myself,

    but then I feel like people don’t respect that, and then I just want to give up on myself and people again.

    I wish I had a Mom figure who knows me really well. I’m thankful for the older people I grew up with who took me out to dinner and listened to me last night.

    They make me feel sane.

    and I think they believe in me…

  155.  #155IamHIs on June 15, 2015 at 4:56 am

    and this article.


    Feedback would feel great from someone understanding and comforting. I’m craving comfort and empathy so badly…

  156.  #156IamHIs on June 15, 2015 at 5:04 am

    “He’s coming close and I’m not hurting…”

    …I want to experience this so badly…

    “I can choose how long he comes close for and what we do when he wants to come close.”

    I want a man to touch me and listen to me and not judge me and not leave me. Well, I DO want him to leave for a little while, so I can feel okay alone. That’s what I do a lot. I run away just so I can make sure I feel okay alone without him.

    but sometimes I don’t feel okay…:(

    “I get to choose when it’s too much to handle and when I’ve had enough.”

    I feel like this is the point when they find another easier woman.

    and I can’t handle it, so I’m the one who leaves.

    and I don’t want to let him back in again. HOW DARE he enjoy another woman’s company while I’m trying to find my balance alone. and WHEN I need him is WHEN he is paying attention to that other woman. I want him to be there WHEN I need him. That’s another huge issue.

    They’re always there when you could not possibly care less.

    When you are filled with apathy for them.

    and apathy is the opposite of love.

    No wonder I feel so stuck.

  157.  #157Labbit on June 15, 2015 at 6:41 am

    135 Lovergirl & 151 Tereana — Thank you! True Tereana, I don’t always need to speak in feeling messages…you are right that it’s more about the energy behind what I’m saying. 🙂

    153 IamHis — There is a positive flip side to intimacy fears! For me these fears started to come up the more my inner light was shining…and when your inner light is shining, it makes you magnetic!!

    I really like how Helena Hart talks about it:

    When I started having my light shine more often, at first I attracted really weird guys — I’m talking like homeless men, those strange men on the commuter train that kind of thing. (I am so sure Rori had a reader question that said the same but I can’t find it at this moment.) What I realized with time was that I had grown very comfortable letting my light shine in situations where I didn’t feel pressured, but as soon as I was around a man I liked the light cut off all over again. So for a bit of time it was about pushing my limits a little further out each time…letting my light shine a few seconds more around a man I was attracted to, then a few seconds more the next time, just FEELING that openness and vulnerability inside of me rushing around while I let him ‘in’ to explore.

    All of what you’re feeling is normal!!! I wonder why you feel the need to be so hard on yourself? The goal isn’t perfection…no one is perfect and everyone has skills around relationship and intimacy they can get better at…and it’s a lifelong journey that never ends! There will always be something new to learn, something you feel you’re not great at, something that you see others do so easily that doesn’t come as naturally to you. I know that for me, right now I am noticing the ways my mind turns me defensive and has me close down even when Tender says something that isn’t harmful — but I take it as harm. And then after I get a grip on that, something else will float in for me to learn about. 🙂

    I used to feel the same way, that as soon I opened my heart, and then once the intimacy had overwhelmed me and I needed to step back, that men would leave — they’d find someone else or just float away to who knows where. I have learned that there is a difference between leaning back and being COLD, and leaning back and being WARM. There is a way to take all the space you want for yourself, and still feel very warm and open to a man in that magnetic way. It’s firstly about having compassion for yourself, for pouring love on yourself even as those angry, or grief-stricken, or fearful feelings come up. Allowing them, not attacking him with them, moving through your day even as those feelings yell at you in the background. And this feels SO scary (at least it did for me), because I worried HE would feel me dealing with all this stuff I felt was nasty and bad. The trick is LOVING yourself through this, even if you can’t love yourself all the time it’s OK, but understanding that you are going to experience ALL KINDS of feelings, that you can’t be happy and put together all the time, and that in truth NO ONE expects that of you either — except maybe for US of OURSELVES. We set these impossibly high standards for ourselves where we feel like we have to be light, happy, perfect. We don’t!!

    And then it’s secondly about slowly unlocking your heart, even when you’re in the depths of fear, of trusting in YOURSELF that the initial attraction you felt with a man was for good reason, so when he comes closer and you want to shut down, it’s OK for you to softly peel those layers, those defenses back, and just see what happens when you remain open. NO MATTER WHAT you learn to believe that you will be OK (and you will be!!!) so whether a relationship flourishes or floats away, it’s not a verdict of how lovable you are or not. It’s an ever-evolving process of you flowering into your inner beauty. All you need to know is that EVERY man, whether he sticks around for a day, a month, a year or forever, is leading you ever-closer to your forever man. He doesn’t even really matter until he says he’s the one. Until then, he’s a guide leading you to that one. He is not an enemy. He’s not someone to fear. He is someone to open up to, no matter who he is.

    Be kind to yourself!! You are growing, every day, leading yourself closer to the life and relationship you want. The more you can find compassion for yourself, and treat yourself with kindness, the more this energy will inspire men to do the same. And from your comments recently it seems as though that is already happening for you! You are on the right path.

  158.  #158IamHIs on June 15, 2015 at 7:34 am

    Labbit, I feel so teary and thankful for you. Thank you so much, this is exactly what I needed to “hear”/read!!!

    I feel relief. 🙂

  159.  #159Indigo on June 15, 2015 at 8:07 am


    I feel so happy for you with your vacation with Tender. So so lovely 🙂

  160.  #160Indigo on June 15, 2015 at 8:11 am


    I know that I and other sirens have said this to you, but I really would love to see you accept the reality of your relationship with S. There is great freedom in that. In seeing things for what they are, rather than what you wish they were. Maybe then your heart would not ache so much when he doesn’t contact you for days or goes to sex parties… because this is who he IS, this is who he’s told you he is. This is the way things are. Feeling hurt about it, while SO human and understandable, has the vibe of wanting to fight against the way things are. Power to change things comes from accepting the way things are, and choosing how you want to proceed, choosing YOUR actions, rather than worrying about S’s.

  161.  #161Indigo on June 15, 2015 at 8:15 am

    So Sirens,

    Just a flippant, “high school” type question 🙂 How do you know if a guy likes you? I mean, aside from the obvious, him asking you out.

    Without wanting to turn anything into something imaginary, what else are the signs? I’m not one to dwell on it if a guy is not asking me out, but I just wondered aside from that, if there might be other signs…

  162.  #162Labbit on June 15, 2015 at 8:35 am

    Hmm Indigo, in my experience most of the signs that a guy likes me overlap with the signs of a budding friendship…he’ll linger in social situations that we’re both in to get a chance to talk to me 1 on 1, he’ll ask my friends/coworkers about me to see what my deal is, he’ll be very present and engaged in any conversations we have and ask me lots of questions about myself and my background, he’ll come to social engagements he might otherwise have skipped if he knows I’m going to be there, he’ll find excuses to be physically near me…those kind of things.

    I have noticed that men who are interested in me tend to linger in eye contact, even from across the room, and I’ll catch them checking me out a lot. But truly aside from asking you out all of these could be friendship indicators as well…to me, all men who approach us start out interested in us and intrigued by us (yes, even the married ones!) and with time the single men determine via our interactions whether they want to ask us out or not, if they’re mentally ready to date someone. Sometimes they are simply building up their contact list so to speak.

    Pardon my prying, but is this your coworker??!

  163.  #163Labbit on June 15, 2015 at 8:36 am

    Oh I forgot one big one — he’ll touch me. On the knee, my shoulder, my hands or wrists. Hugs hello and goodbye, maybe even a kiss on the cheek. That’s another clue.

  164.  #164Allure on June 15, 2015 at 8:49 am


    In my experience it really depends on the man.
    Is he confident, shy? Is he outgoing or reserved?
    Flirting is the obvious sign. That eye contact with a little heat behind it or possibly even breaking eye contact, if you are the one making it, and fidgeting. A confident man won’t wait long to inquire deeper into spending time with you. He thinks about you and wants to be around you. Some men get super curious about you and ask lots of questions and yet others will make a point about telling all about themselves.

    On th flipside you can try to trust your own intuition. If you really feel like a man likes you, it’s likely he does. It’s benefcial to learn the difference between the feelings you get when you like a man as opposed to the feelings you get when a man likes you.

    My feelings when I am attracted to a man tend to be more forceful than what I feel when I am sensing his attraction.
    When I am attracted I feel a bit intense, jittery, anxious. When i’m sensing a mans feelings for me I tend to feel warm, butterflies, tingly, strangely I tend to feel humorous, giggly, like I know a fun secret.

    Thinking deeper about it now it may be easier to make an attempt to pinpoint men who you can tell are not attracted to you and pay attention. What is lacking there? What behaviours do they not display? What energy isn’t there?
    That type of thing.
    I know it’s super easy for me to know a man is not attracted to me and far more complex to know if he is.

  165.  #165Helena Hart on June 15, 2015 at 9:06 am

    Labbit – 156 – Thank you so much for sharing my article, I’m so glad it was helpful for you!

    I talked about this in an interview I did with Rori earlier this year, perhaps it will be helpful:


    I absolutely LOVE what you said about opening up and having compassion for yourself – that’s exactly how it works!! This is what I did to break my “addiction” to unavailable men when I was single and open up to my amazing husband.

    Love, Helena

  166.  #166Allure on June 15, 2015 at 9:10 am

    I see that as a skill that can be honed. Picking up on subtle cues and energies. Trusting your instinct when it’s telling you something. Knowing the difference between reading an energy and creating an energy.
    Is this energy originating with me, or am I picking up on it.

    Visual cues are fun too. There was a man who would (whenever he could) prop himself up leaning sideways against a wall with his hand when he was talking to me. It was such an obvious cue! That with all the flirting, teasing and even nicknames he gave me told me for sure he was interested.

    Seems like a good place to be in. The place of curiousity. What are these feelings? Who is this person? Who am I?
    An attractive energy. Sans expectation. Genuine openness to all things. Because things as they are is the beautiful part. Things as we want them to be is too complicated sometimes.

    I could really focus on that. Focus on genuine openness to things as they are. As they are coming to me. Strip away the back and the front and just be in the middle. In the current moment.

  167.  #167Violette on June 15, 2015 at 11:10 am

    It feels so nice to remember that the reason I’m dating is to be able to really bring my true self to the table with someone. Without fear. Without hiding.

    Can I do that with M? I feel like I can be myself in certain ways. I feel like I can share my mind with him. My creativity. I feel safe to be my best self around him in that way. And there’s this weird feeling of not caring what he thinks…what I mean is I feel a confidence around him.

    Can I allow him to have the types of friendships that…I don’t want for myself? Can I accept him that way?

    For now it’s…well it’s not really an issue. He doesn’t have parties in his home. He goes out and sees them. I don’t have to go with him. I can even say I prefer to know him one on one. I want to. I want to keep dating him. I like him. And I want to really try to respect where he’s at with friends. Heck, am I so perfect in that area? It’s better now in my new city. I don’t feel such a pressure to have perfect friendships anymore. Can I allow him to have his journey? I really really want to try.

    It doesn’t have to be my journey at all. I’m only just getting to know him. We’ve been on only 2 official dates. His scene isn’t my scene. I want to play with that. With fully inhabiting my truth while simultaneously respecting an opposite choice. In a man.

    This would be a great accomplishment for me. It would really mean I am being free in myself. I don’t owe anyone anything. He doesn’t owe anyone anything. Freeing 🙂

  168.  #168Lovergirl on June 15, 2015 at 11:55 am


    Sometimes when I am in an awkward social situation, I will try and find ONE person who seems open to talking and be friendly towards them. It can take awhile to break into a new group. You might be surprised and actually like some of them more than you think….or not, but maybe try to be a little more open to it and not focus on your past experience.

  169.  #169Lovergirl on June 15, 2015 at 12:29 pm

    Dixie 137-

    Thank you so much for your warm response! I wish I had people I could call or friends or family that I could talk to but I really don’t. I feel kind of isolated. I do have friends, they just aren’t people I can really open up to like that. Neither are my family. I would love to be held and comforted but I don’t really have anyone that loves me, never really have. S is just another person that doesn’t love me, but he was pretty much the best friend I had.

    I guess it has helped some because I still feel numb. I don’t feel good or bad. Just numb. I can’t cry. I can’t feel anything. When I start to it just hurts too much and I can’t go there.

    I know I need to love myself more. I’m trying to figure that one out…how to do that.

  170.  #170Lovergirl on June 15, 2015 at 12:39 pm

    Indigo 159-

    What’s so upsetting is that he WASN’T doing this stuff a couple of months ago! Sure, he went to parties WITH ME or by himself, but not with another woman, and mostly he wasn’t going and was spending the majority of his time with me. He NEVER was the type to just disappear like that! He also wasn’t trying to date anyone seriously because he said that he didn’t have the motivation, with ME being in his life.

    Ugh. I can’t deal with the upheaval. Its too stressful and why I say I need to know I have a place in his heart and am #1. Otherwise I just can’t do it. It’s a no go.

    What is disturbing is he says he wants a long term relationship. Its what he really wants and he says that it really probably should be with me, if he could just “let himself”. What bullshit. It’s stringing me along and I don’t like that at all. Just like I don’t like his calling me over to attend to his needs then dipping out to a party with another woman. Its not okay.

    If this is the way things are, then I am walking out. If he wants to admit we have a relationship and that it means something, then, and only then, do I want him back in my life.

    I have him blocked on facebook and on the swinger site. Unfortunately I can still see things on the swinger site, but he can’t see my profile, only the main picture or if I sign up for a party. I’m trying to avoid looking at things of his as much as possible. I’m distracting myself, even if its not in the best of ways.

  171.  #171Indigo on June 15, 2015 at 1:24 pm

    Labbit & Allure,

    Wow, you ladies are on form tonight! Great comments!

    Labbit, yes it’s my co-worker. We’re all very introverted in my office, and the nature of our work is pretty quiet, so there’s not a lot of energy being thrown around. We sit around and chat sometimes when the boss is away, and there is the odd little bit of personal chatter at other times, but in general there’s not a lot of opportunity to socialise. He seems reserved and a bit shy to me, but also really kind and gentle.

    I may be imagining this, but he seems particularly kind to me. Whenever he is helping me or teaching me something he talks to me so sweetly, like you would talk to a precious little girl. Weird I know, but that’s the only way I can describe it. The other thing that makes me think he is interested is the personal space thing. You know how you have that appropriate personal space around your body for co-workers and casual acquaintances, then you have a closer space for close friends and a yet closer space for people you’re intimate with. Well, he comes right into the intimate space, but it feels nice, not too much. I sometimes think I catch him staring at me in meetings and at other times but I’m too afraid to look because it makes me feel shy.

    The other day he came into my office to ask my help with something, and he made conversation with me, saying he’d never seen my name spelt that way, and I definitely got the feeling he was interested from the way he was talking to me and making eye contact and leaning in close and laughing at my jokes.

    I liked what you said, Allure, about trusting your intuition, and what you sense about the energy. There are two men in our office – the one is my boss, and he is happily married and there is a distinct professional distance there, a boundary you just know will never ever be crossed. The other is this guy I’ve mentioned, and there is a warmth there, an intimate, soft feeling, like soft, pillowy marshmallows in my tummy and just a very slow, fluttery feeling. Like you said Allure, when I like a guy the feeling is usually a lot more intense and chaotic. This feeling on the other hand seems to be coming from outside of me, at me – not all the time, just sometimes.

  172.  #172Dixie on June 15, 2015 at 2:48 pm

    Indigo, 159: I love your advice here, to see how things are, and accept that reality.

    Yes, that is freeing! Difficult at first, but so freeing!

    Lovergirl, perhaps its not just S that you’re mourning, but perhaps also the loss of all these expectations, and wonderful “future” imaginings?

    Trust that he is “showing” you at this moment who he is. To echo Indigo, don’t worry about him. I would add to not look at anything online that triggers you. Don’t look at what hurts you.

    Love to you – we’ve all been in your shoes! Much love and support is here for you!

  173.  #173Femininewoman on June 15, 2015 at 2:57 pm

    Dixie do you mind clarifying what you mean by we’ve all been in your shoes?

    I really don’t believe that generalization is true.

  174.  #174Tereana on June 15, 2015 at 6:02 pm

    Sometimes I find old emails or texts that I’ve sent former lovers/dates/CDs, and I feel so embarrassed and little incredulous. With the benefit of time and distance, I see what I wrote, and I think “How could it possibly have been a good idea to communicate any of this??”

    Sometimes it’s riffing and letters I wrote that I never actually sent. But sometimes they are messages that I did send. Ugh. Oy. Oygh. If only I could be so sane WHEN WRITING THE ACTUAL LETTERS. If only I could be so cool as to never want to write those types of things in the first place. If only I could have the presence of mind, the confidence, the security, to never let those types of thoughts in to my mind to begin with.

    Well, if I could do that, I’d probably be ready to be somebody’s partner…

  175.  #175Lovergirl on June 15, 2015 at 10:50 pm

    Dixie 171-

    Maybe so…only now I am completely confused because he just called me! It was midnight when he called and I was in bed but not asleep yet. Anyway, he called, he said, just to find out how my new job is going. He asked questions about that and he said he had been waiting for the “emotional storm to blow over” and that his Aunt and Uncle had been in town (which I already knew they were coming). Then he wanted to talk about some new idea he has for his business. He wanted my opinions and advice, as usual.

    I feel so…confused!! I don’t know what he wants! I’ve probably told him ten thousand times I don’t want to be his platonic friend. Yet, he doesn’t seem to get that. He wants to talk to me just like nothing happened. I don’t doubt he will want to have sex again too. He KNOWS at this point how I feel about things, yet he is back to the same behavior.

    I’m not sure what to do. Maybe I shouldn’t have talked to him. We talked for 20 minutes and I was going to tell him I needed to go to sleep but he said it first. I was nice to him. Maybe I shouldn’t have been? I just don’t know how to act with him. I don’t want to be strung along. I love him though. :/

  176.  #176Millie on June 16, 2015 at 12:04 am


    It’s good that he called you though, however him “waiting for the storm to blow over” seems like his plan for handling you is just …not handling you. He steps away, waits until you calm down, then attempts to resume normalcy. I don’t think this is necessarily wrong or uncommon. In fact, I think a lot of men do this who just don’t know how else to handle things. When you think about how men handle things–by taking space–he probably assumes that what you need too. But the point is…that isn’t what you want, and you want a hell of a lot more than he can give, which you’ve realized now.

    It sounds like it is time for a power speech.
    “I love you too much to be just friends with you. I need to take a step back and not be in contact with you right now.”

  177.  #177Indigo on June 16, 2015 at 12:09 am

    Lovergirl 173,

    “I feel so…confused!! I don’t know what he wants! I’ve probably told him ten thousand times I don’t want to be his platonic friend. Yet, he doesn’t seem to get that. He wants to talk to me just like nothing happened. I don’t doubt he will want to have sex again too. He KNOWS at this point how I feel about things, yet he is back to the same behavior.”

    None of this is for you to know or figure out. You get to choose how you want to respond to him. If you want to go to bed, tell him, and then do. If you want to talk to him, talk to him. You will drive yourself nuts trying to figure out an undecided man. Believe me, I’ve been down this road before.

  178.  #178Millie on June 16, 2015 at 12:24 am

    When I hear stories of men who run away, who take space, who suddenly come back and call out of nowhere, it makes me think of M and how he hasn’t done it. It is very perplexing to me…still. How someone could run away that hard from something that for the most part was pretty f-ing wonderful. And I know he thought it was. It baffles me….people come back for less and to far worse situations. I’ve been feeling my feelings and even shared this hurt with the new guy I’ve been dating. I did feel a little scared he’d run away too, but I told myself- to be honest and if he ran away, it was his choice.

    Well, he didn’t run away…not at all. In fact I feel closer to him, not necessarily because of that, but I think overall- I did let my guard down this wknd. He’s showing up in a different way than M, it’s his own way and I like it– so I’m going to go with it.

    I actually have felt triggered by some of the things he said…and when I did my initial response was to say something in reply that was very short and shut down. I think I’ve grown a lot, because in that moment– I realized the drama was in my head. That I was choosing to feel insecure and believe that this guy didn’t have the best intentions or choosing to be mean in response to something that he said that wasn’t confident. I saw that in myself and I stopped. I breathed. I decided to believe that I am irresistible and he wouldn’t ask to see me if he didn’t really want to. That he was trying to be cool, trying to be thoughtful, and nice….and once I recognized these things, once I remembered that men are human and men are simple–they just want to be appreciated and respected– it was easy to respond softly and warmly.

    I think my goal right now, in my male interaction– is to see them as human beings and not a “guy”. When you look at that way, looking at what they are trying to create with us, instead of looking for what a guy is “trying to get” from us…it really changes where my words come from and their tone.

    New guy plans ahead. I like that he takes on the role of looking to the future, even if it is just next weekend right now. He makes plans with me far well in advance also and I am feeling more open to receiving his attention now.

  179.  #179Beloved on June 16, 2015 at 6:42 am

    lovergirl – he is glossing over and not really hearing what you say about not wanting to be platonic friends the same you gloss over and don’t really hear him saying you two aren’t in a relationship. You are seeing and hearing what you want to see and hear and discarding the contradictions, instead of realizing, there are serious contradictions and taking that into account.

  180.  #180Beloved on June 16, 2015 at 6:44 am

    Not exactly the same, yet still generally relevant:

    Are You Future Faking Yourself For a Short-Term Fix?
    Full post is at:


    “Many people end up baffled, wondering “Where the eff is that future that they promised me?” or Why can’t they go back to being who I thought they were?”, and find it difficult to work out what was real and what was fake. They keep chasing the dream, convinced that it’s still on offer, even when the ‘salesperson’ has vanished.

    Here’s the thing: It’s a given how thoughtless, hurtful, misleading and inappropriate a Future Faker’s actions are, but after listening to so many people talk about their experiences and seeing some of them go back so many times to the same ‘burning fire’, it’s time to ask: Are you guilty of Future Faking yourself?

    If you keep returning to the same relationship, or find yourself Staying and Complaining in a poor situation, or you keep finding yourself in same relationship packaged up in a different person while carrying the same ‘ole issues, you’re faking a future to yourself by Betting On Potential and using denial, rationalising, minimising, and excuses to circumvent what you actually know to be true (reality) or right for you (your values), so that you can continue to get a short-term fix and bury your head about medium to longer term issues.”

  181.  #181Azure Blu on June 16, 2015 at 7:49 am

    soft warm BIG huggss and positive vibrations
    to all the growth you have done!!!
    you should give yourself
    loving, appreciation, strong acceptance
    for how AMAZING YOU ARE!!!
    YOU set your BOUNDARY about
    NOT working for S
    and have stood by it
    about NO Sex as long as he is
    dating others and doesn’t want a relationship
    You have NOT let him meet your children
    YOU ARE CDing
    You are on the blog
    and Praciticing
    EVERY day, EVERY hour,
    giving YOURSELF more and more
    L* O *V *E

    You Are EXACTLY where YOU
    RIGHT NOW!!!
    And it IS VERY good!!!

    Soo what if you still feel confused
    about what is going on
    Sooo what if you can’t quite
    let go of S
    You are a VERY brave woman
    I recommend NOT pushing yourself
    further than feels comfortable…

    Change takes time…


    The MORE you are GENTLE with YOU
    THE easier it will be to
    ALLOW a man to treat you
    Gently, lovingly,
    Love to you darling Siren
    You are an inspiration to ME!!!

  182.  #182Azure Blu on June 16, 2015 at 7:58 am

    Millie #176
    I am liking your thoughtful
    Siren introspection…

    I love this… I pasted and copied it into my archives…

    “I think my goal right now, in my male interaction– is to see them as human beings and not a “guy”.
    When you look at that way,
    looking at what they are
    instead of looking for what a guy is “trying to get”
    from us…
    it really changes where my words come from
    and their tone. “

  183.  #183Azure Blu on June 16, 2015 at 8:30 am

    Sirens #179

    I am reading those words and realizing
    Those words are
    lovingly for
    Sweet, confused,
    sad, missing Spirit
    And it is OK!!!
    It is PERFECT
    and I
    will sit right here
    and LOVE ME
    and accept how VERY uncomfortable
    THIS IS!!!
    It *IS* so Da*mn uncomfortable…
    and sooooo out of my

  184.  #184Lovergirl on June 16, 2015 at 9:23 am

    Millie 174-

    Reading your comment reminded me of the book Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus. I remember he talked about how on “Mars” men lay low when a storm is blowing through, lol, and how women should do that with men. It doesn’t work so well, I don’t think, the other way around. Well, maybe it appears to work, to him, but it doesn’t address the underlying issue.

    I’m so confused about him, partly because I’m not even sure I WANT a long term commitment such as marriage. Bringing someone else into my family, with all my kids, does sound kind of stressful. Yet at the same time, I know I can’t handle being *nothing* to him. Maybe I just need to accept that, but I don’t know how much I can handle.

    I’m also not sure I totally buy his comments about NOT feeling love and affection for me. If you spent time with us, it would certainly appear that he feels affection! He’s often very affectionate.

    The fact that he can’t seem to stay away, seems to say something too. I don’t think he he really wants me gone out of his life. He’s obviously attached on some level.

    Maybe I should give him a speech. I just wonder if I’m really ready to back it up.

  185.  #185Lovergirl on June 16, 2015 at 9:26 am

    Indigo 175-

    You are right that I will drive myself nuts! My issue is that I WANT to talk to him. I WANT to be with him. I’m just afraid if I do what I want, in the moment, I will end up getting steamrolled. Everything in me just wants to be with him, be around him, talk to him. I freaking adore him!

  186.  #186Lovergirl on June 16, 2015 at 9:30 am

    Millie 176- (((hugs)))

    I’m sorry about things with M. It IS hard to understand. I guess that’s why we aren’t supposed to worry our pretty little heads trying to. Believe me though, I totally get how hard it is NOT to do that!!

    I’m loving how things seem to be going with the new guy though! It sounds like progress! 🙂

  187.  #187Lovergirl on June 16, 2015 at 9:33 am

    Beloved 177-

    True. I guess we are both kind of bullheaded. He is my mirror, after all! :p I may have to have some kind of a talk with him the next time he calls, or write up an email or something about what I want to say. I really need to figure it out.

  188.  #188Liquid Light on June 16, 2015 at 9:35 am

    I went to singles event last night and met a cute fun guy. He came right over and talked my my friend and I right after he walked in. At one point, he went and mingled but then came back. There was definitely some nice chemistry going on. But at one point when we were talking he noticed a woman leaving and excused himself and ran over to her. They talked for a while in a flirty way then I had to leave. As I walked by them, I overheard him tell her his age. He’s almost 10 years younger than I. I looked her up on the dating site and found out she’s around his age and quite attractive. Ughh.

    I’ve got mixed feelings. I think he’s too young for me and I’m not really that comfortable with the age difference. But feeling like he might be fun as a buddy and possible as a FWB. Seriously considering it. I don’t think I’d take him seriously as relationship material so not really feeling that upset that he ran over to talk to the young pretty thing. Hahahaha!!!


  189.  #189Lovergirl on June 16, 2015 at 9:37 am

    Beloved- Thank you for the link and article. I do think I am guilty of “future faking”. Now what to do about it? :p

  190.  #190Lovergirl on June 16, 2015 at 9:40 am

    Azure 179-

    Thank you so much for your kind words and pointing out where I am doing better! I have set some boundaries. Now can I keep them? And can I keep setting the right boundaries? I guess that is my challenge.

  191.  #191Liquid Light on June 16, 2015 at 9:59 am

    He texted me this morning and asked why I looked so upset when he saw me on the street after the event. I was running to catch my transportation home and didn’t want to miss it. I think he thought I was upset because he was talking to the other woman. I told him I hadn’t seen him on the street which I hadn’t. Pretty funny.

  192.  #192Beloved on June 16, 2015 at 10:29 am

    lovergirl – ha, I know, right? Every time I post something like that, I also remember that I had read every relationship book, worked the tools, and had read every single post on Baggage Reclaim and I was totally aware of what I was doing and STILL couldn’t seem to stop myself with a Mr. Unavailable because the feelings were just so strong.

  193.  #193Beloved on June 16, 2015 at 10:41 am

    Stop Explaining. Stop Justifying. Stop Talking. Boundaries Are Upheld With Action

    Full article at:

    “You don’t need to explain or justify your boundaries or try to guide anyone to light of your bountiful knowledge. You’ve got to stop carrying on like one of those bonkers ministers that lays their hands on a member of the congregation in a wheelchair, starts talking in mumbo jumbo, shouting and throwing themselves on the floor, only for the person to stand up and say “HAVE MERCY! I CAN WALK!”

    That’s what all this talking to the nth degree, Powerpoint presentations, manuals, trying a different tack, taking them back and assuming they’ve changed and basically being ever accommodating and trying to take the path of least resistance with your ‘type’ that represents your unhealthy beliefs is:

    You expect them to fall at your feet (eventually) and wail “I CAN LOVE! MY HEART IS OPEN! I’M UNAVAILABLE/AN ASSCLOWN NO MORE!” They’re just not that special, you’re not that desperate, and you’re not so special that you have the powers to fix/heal/help people out of being themselves.

    People only explain and keep on explaining or even justifying boundaries that they don’t believe in. It is time to start believing in what you already know – relationship insanity and the fact that certain types of behaviours and relationships don’t work for anyone.

    When you do try making a case for why they shouldn’t be doing something and why you shouldn’t be putting up with it and pacing your relationship courtroom laying out your argument, all someone that would show up to a relationship with shady carry-on does is deny it, claim their version of things is correct, or even make out like you’re the one with the problem.”

  194.  #194Labbit on June 16, 2015 at 11:36 am

    Lovergirl, I think you would get SO MUCH out of working with a coach one on one. Articles, books, etc are all helpful…but the game really changes when you have someone who helps you invest in you, in your worth, and helps you uncover on a personal basis where your blocks to love are and how to remove them. There’s also accountability, which is a great thing to help grow through! For me, I got to see myself in a completely new way, through fresh eyes…it was a wondrous and uplifting experience, almost like a chat with a best friend or sister that I could trust in deeply.

    From my own experience I can say that that my relationship with myself and with TenderCD changed, opened up, became much more of a natural flow once I started working with Dominique. Much like you I was coming here for suggestions a lot as I made my way through the dating scene, and I’d read articles that sounded helpful and start to make guidelines or rules for myself…the problem for me was in the moment where I was living my relationships, the rules didn’t help. I didn’t have the foundation of self-confidence and guidance I needed to choose the appropriate action, feeling message, whatever.

    And that is where the one-on-one interactions with a coach have helped me the most. I was able to open up completely with Dominique, honestly look at where my blocks were and learn how to patiently work my way through them in a way that actually drew Tender closer to me. Much like Rori outlines in the latest post, Dominique listened to A LOT of my personal history and story, and was able to give me amazing personalized advice based on my background as well as where I was in my journey at that time.

    I have found that for suggestions, advice, whatever to really take hold with me, there has to be a strong basis of believability in what I’m told to do. That helps me buy into the advice and suggestions, and live them out. That’s what coaching is for. The investment is so totally worth it…a few hundred bucks now for a lifetime of happiness? Yes, please.

  195.  #195Indigo on June 16, 2015 at 12:02 pm

    Have to really echo what you are saying here, Labbit.

    Intensive coaching for a month with Dominique, and a few follow-up sessions afterwards, were a game changer for me. It really helped me get to a MUCH better place inside myself, and that is really the best thing you can ask for. The revelations I came to in my coaching sessions really did stick with me afterwards.

    It’s hard to really explain the magic that happens, or why it works, but it does. For me, it just gave me much, much more confidence that I was lacking. This is definitely something you can take with you into your relationship, and to other areas of your life. What I liked about coaching is that I could come to Dominique with an issue or problem, and she would be absolutely, completely, no-holds-barred honest (yet kind) with me. Having a coach to hold your hand through those tough times is very beneficial.

  196.  #196Dominique on June 16, 2015 at 12:32 pm

    Labbit and Indigo – Such beautiful, heart warming words and testimonials. I feel deeply touched, thank you. And very needed and welcome at this time.

    Love you both bunches. 🙂

    Lovergirl, I’m here for you if you need or want me.

    Love to you.


  197.  #197Mistea1 on June 16, 2015 at 5:59 pm

    Just a comment on my 139 comment. It’s been 2 days since I ignored him and turned away on purpose. It was the right thing to do. I probably won’t have any reason to go back there either. I’ve found other sources for just as good or better music.

    No one has ever attempted to treat me disrespectfully or demeaned me and no one ever will. Except for this one. He did not get second chance to treat me like that again. What is distressing me is that I seem to be mourning this loss (?) I can’t be mad at him b/c he was just being his damaged, narcissistic self. I accept my responsibility for my actions and admit I did get what I wanted to out of this interaction.

    I’ve had the thought pass through my mind that I could take advantage of this by playing with him and teasing. I know how to do it and have had some success with it. But then it would put me on the same level as him and I don’t want to do that. One of us has to be the mature one here, so I’m “it”. Probably it’s good for me to guard my mental health, after all my inner young one felt a bit pushed aside and gave me plenty of “punched in the stomach” feelings to let me know she didn’t like that one bit.

    So I guess I’ve matured somewhat and that’s a good thing. Now I feel slightly bored, uncomfortable without this titillation of anothers interest. I liked the thrill of the chase such as it was. I liked the otherwordly aspects of it all especially. I learned a lot. Now the world is a little grey colored and it seems there is a veil of dullness. Ick, I hate being “mature”. “Oops young one, I didn’t really mean that!!” Thanks all for listening.

  198.  #198Mandy on June 16, 2015 at 6:26 pm

    Now I have a man in my CD circle who wants to treat me like a priority. Someone who’s nice but masculine. I was afraid nice guys were weak. This one isn’t. And yet he is still just an option or an admirer, not an agenda. Pretty cool, huh? Now I get why Rori wants women to try out lots of different guys as far as talking to them and practicing things. I feel like I came out on the other side about that. Cool, I didn’t know masculine guys who are nice are the most awesome ones. 😀

    This man actually tells me I make him feel more masculine and it turns him on, he wants to do all this great stuff for me because I encourage him when he says I got this done and I got that done and I’ll help you with this or that, I always say oooh, what a masculine guy, or something like that and it actually helps. He told me straight up he likes the way I make him feel more masculine and how I come off so feminine, and that I “get” him. He’s had so many women try to dominate the situation with him and have him be their slave he just gets turned off.

    I never realized how simple it really is. Masculine good guys really are not people to read between the lines with…and they make up a very big chunk of the population…SO…we eventually need to learn this to at least get to a good chunk of the population with our messages, I feel.

    This could be used to drive the new feminism with Emma Watson is leading where the women are asking for support, not hating on the guys.

    I feel it’s brilliant! I think it is a social awakening! I think it is a form of enlightenment! I feel my soul form and star power when I think about the connection that could be made with guys today through gentle feminism. Meaning making a connection with these guys rather than telling them they are bad and wrong. I want them to be encouraged.

    And now I see how there are different kinds of guys. J is a FEMININE GOOD guy, and G is a MASCULINE GOOD guy. I’ve been with masculine bad guys and feminine bad guys. Those ones I just don’t want to be around really, and then the feminine doesn’t quite work with me either. That guy can be a great friend but only a friend. Hence where I am trying to put J in the friend zone so I can date more men like G. G may or may not be a good CD to stick with, but I’m not sweating it, he’s giving me what I need right now without the stress, so I’m just soaking up the sunshine and nothing more.


    Like being out on the lake, soaking up warm gentle sun, sipping on something cold, and watching the water move and ebb and flow and the sun ripple on the water with that warm nummy feeling from te sun it’s awesome….that sun feeling is what I feel when I feel my star power…just golden white light filling and nurturing every cell in me every neuron…Sometimes I imagine myself floating above the ground projecting golden white light energy and blowing the wind all around me, especially when I am running for 30 minutes striaght or lsitening to music (or both).

    Sometimes I think of mermaids helping wash away my anxiety, by putting cool water on me and braiding my hair, it’s like a visual of Siren-like creatures helping me, because sometimes I have to remove my own consciousness to get out of the boy-mode and go into the girl mode- I need a vision of someone helping me sometimes, which is fine, lol. It actually works against my boyish brain!!!!!!

    Thesze visuals are getting learer and clearer every acupuncture treatment I get, every theraputic massage, every phone call from G, and I feel my whole self just drift right towards the feminine. My heart and nerves start to sing!

    Star power! 🙂 This was why I watched She-ra, princess of power, when I was a kid, she had star power and it was very feminine…I’ve got it too, all because I just am cool and calm and yet passionate and happy! G even told me I am too much fun and that I like things other women hate like music and admiring others instead of hating them, being open minded, and being easy going, getting what he says and not being a man-hater. I feel like I’m only being myself when I do this. It feels so natural, I just need to keep saying, “Mandy intends to keep it simple”. 🙂

  199.  #199Mistea1 on June 16, 2015 at 7:48 pm

    Yea Mandy, You’ve been working hard. Enjoy your well deserved rewards!!

  200.  #200Lovergirl on June 16, 2015 at 8:33 pm

    Thank you Beloved, Labbit, Indigo and Dominique. I would so love to work with a coach! Hopefully, once the paychecks start coming in from my new job, I will be in a better place to do that. With not working for S lately, I’m in especially bad shape financially. :/ If I can get up enough for an email session, I will definitely want to do that. Right now, I’m just praying we have enough toilet paper and dish soap to make it to Friday, because I can’t even afford that. :p

    I would most especially like to work with Dominique! 🙂 I was actually reading on her site last night, right before I went to bed. I liked an article I read that talked about sinking into your feelings and meditating on them right before you fall asleep so that your subconscious mind can work through things overnight. I was just getting ready to try that and as my head hit the pillow, S called.

    I really loved her article “are you with a toxic or commitment phobic man” too. I like the idea that I can use things with S to heal myself and maybe he will come along for the ride. I just have so much love for him, I don’t really want to let him go, even though there are things that are definitely triggering.

  201.  #201Mandy on June 16, 2015 at 8:38 pm

    Mistea, Thank you!!!!

    Actually I feel better than ever before now, talking to some Sirens on here about their situations. Because I sort of undid my anxiety about my own. It took a minute and a breath but it wasn’t hard somehow…I popped out on the other side and don’t have nay intentions of turning back, lol.

    J is hard-wired just to be difficult as can be. That’s it. Just a difficult guy who likes to dominate the relationship. Which I didn’t sign up for. Now here’s my question. How the hell do I put J in the friend zone? He most likely will not be very nice to me, probably hate me, but I’d rather him hate me for showing who I really am than for a lie, which is me being his girlfriend, it’s a fake relationship, a falsehood and I want it to stop right now.

  202.  #202Millie on June 16, 2015 at 10:46 pm

    Mandy I love your imagery!!! Of the sirens braiding your hair and helping wash away anxiety! That’s a great visual!

  203.  #203Mandy on June 17, 2015 at 1:10 am

    Millie – perfect image, the little mermaid… always wanted to be her 🙂

  204.  #204Mistea1 on June 17, 2015 at 5:56 am

    Mandy, about the friend zone. You’ll know what to do when the time comes. For me I’ve found that people are as people are. I can’t move them around like chess pieces, darn!

  205.  #205Victoria on June 17, 2015 at 6:02 am

    Great to have you back/around.
    No more new dating? Don’t you feel like it?

  206.  #206Mistea1 on June 17, 2015 at 6:38 am

    Hi Victoria,
    The computer wants to play games. Lost it all.
    I’m following you with interest. Indigo too.

    After last weekend I think I want to date the world again. Indigo’s travel plans sound interesting.
    I miss having a full blown Puccini aria accompany a silly bit of conversation.

    I miss having a knowing look that speaks volumes without saying a word.

    I thought MusicTd might be an interesting one but he chickened out. I noticed as I ignored him last week that he seemed frail though the piece he played had much energy. No matter, time to move on. I won’t be controlled by someones need to dominate a non-relationship.

    Ack, the online dating possibilities are poor to none. I’m going to follow my interests here and see what happens there. That’s usually what happens for me. I like quality over quantity. I’ve been around the block so many times I don’t “get to know men”.

  207.  #207Mistea1 on June 17, 2015 at 6:41 am

    correction last sentence. I don’t need to “get to know men.” Now I just observe them.

  208.  #208Indigo on June 17, 2015 at 7:47 am


    When in doubt, travel and adventure is always a wonderful way to go! Even if there don’t seem to be quality men around you here, there is a whole world full of them! I am really REALLY looking forward to going overseas.

  209.  #209Mistea1 on June 17, 2015 at 8:07 am

    208 Indigo,
    Yes, I moved to China and India and Mexico at various times. It was kind of like joining my version of the French Foreign legion where people would go to to avoid the heat at home.

    I thought as I got older that I should try to stick it out here and not run off. Well, we shall see.

  210.  #210Shelley on June 17, 2015 at 9:42 am

    Rori, I have read many of your articles & programs, but the majority do not discuss existing “imaginary” relationships or Long Distance Relationships, which I am learning is a completely different entity. I completely see the reasons behind so many of the rules & boundaries you speak to in your programs, my question is, is there any way to implement these rules & boundaries once already in a relationship and not just any relationship but a LDR?

    Quick summary, I’ve been in a LDR with a wonderful man for 6 months, it’s my first LDR & I know that I have “gone with the flow” more than I should have becuz of it….we have agreed to have an exclusive relationship, I’m not sure I could date others when I’m in an intimate relationship with someone, I know I am invested more than I should be without a ring on, we do love each other. I don’t doubt for a minute that he loves me & OMG we have sooooo much fun together. We have talked about our goals & we both ultimately want marriage. I thought we were completely on the same page & moving forward, however I now know that he is quite happy to keep the relationship at the status it currently is, ie not wanting to even discuss “future”. The other day I said I love what we have and can see potential for something long-term….his words were “just enjoy what we’ve got”….yeah….ouch to my heart!!! I wasn’t implying that I’d made my mind up that I wanted to walk off into the sunset with him yet, but I think that’s how he took it and that response made me go WOAH. He is struggling to reach a personal goal of losing weight, actually he can’t commit to a program & actually get started on it and I do know that is killing him, he’s very successful & has been able to accomplish anything he’s attempted to in his life before this, part of me is concerned he might be putting his life on hold until he does, but I’m certainly not going to ask that now. I personally am not looking for a long term boyfriend (I’m 50 & he’s 55) & although I don’t want to rush off down the aisle myself, I now know I really need to keep my options open while I am dating him, which I do want to continue to, but don’t know how since we’ve already agreed not to.

    Another boundary I’ve let slip is when he picks me up from the airport & from my house, he drives up, sits & waits for me to get in…..I would give anything to have him make the effort of getting out of his truck giving me a hug and opening my door for me. He always opens doors for me when we are out & about….but only when convenient for him to be a gentleman. Before my next visit I plan to say “Honey I feel so excited about seeing you, I would feel over the moon wonderful if you would give me one of your incredible hugs before loading me & my stuff into the truck!” I’m hoping this will work for the airport, & plan on just standing there briefly (it will be in no parking /quick pick up only part at airport so I can’t do it for long!!) if he needs another reminder…..but if he doesn’t, what do I say and how do I change this behavior when he picks me up at my house?

    Since I can’t turn back the clock and start this relationship all over again, I would really appreciate your opinion & guidance.

    Thank you so much,

  211.  #211Mandy on June 17, 2015 at 11:39 am

    Mistea I know, I feel horrible wanting to shuffle people around, but wow, I’m ready…just afraid to say the words.

    AFRAID to say the WORDS….

  212.  #212Mandy on June 17, 2015 at 5:39 pm

    I have a kitty!

    She walked into my arms on Saturday, and now I have a kitty! Oh the warm glowing effect of the kitty..the piece of nature and the universe…filled with her golden white light energy and her beautiful manner and vibration….she is the Dalai Lama of my household…so close to the universe…

    It took me a day to fall in love with her… LOL, yes, go figure, Mandy fell in love in a day…YAY! 🙂

  213.  #213Azure Blu on June 18, 2015 at 4:26 am

    Ahhh lovely Siren welcome!
    You sound like you are growing
    and practicing the Rori way…
    and doing a GREAT job of it all…

    As far as Long distance relationships… I have read
    some from Rori where she does not advice it…
    I have looked for it but can’t locate it…
    Look in the Post Directory of Rori’s Blog

    But What i have observed from others…
    the long distance is such a recipe for HIM
    having another life – another girl friend…

    Your Feeling message of “I love what we have and can see potential for something long-term” is spot on!!

    I think your continued leaning back is VERY important
    going DEEP inside…
    and living YOUR full, sexy wonderful life and
    too much focus on HIM is pushing him away…

    Look inside YOU… He is your MIRROR…
    You say he is being ambivelant…
    You sound ambivilant too

    This time of him needing space…
    YOU can certainly use this space too…
    How much emotional intimacy can YOU sustain..
    How wonderful to have this time to
    LOVE you more… care MORE about YOU!!

  214.  #214Azure Blu on June 18, 2015 at 4:44 am

    Rori has an entire Long Distance Category in her
    Post Directory of popular Blogs

    here is one link

  215.  #215Sassy on June 18, 2015 at 6:10 am

    New post up!

  216.  #216Shelley on June 18, 2015 at 8:25 am

    Thank you Azure, very kind of you to reply and find that blog for me….I will definitely keep that blog post in mind. There’s a lot more to our story, such as I do live 1/4 of my time in the town where he lives & intend to live there full time within the next year and I do have a very full life outside of our relationship. We Facetime, talk & text numerous times daily, morning, noon & night, he initiates 95% of them, I’ve met his family & friends & employees, I truly know he’s not leading a secret life. I am not going to just walk away at this point, I do believe we have some real potential long term which is why I’d love to go back to my original questions on specific ways that I back track a bit in the area of exclusivity so that he knows the “chase” is not yet over and he still needs to put his best gentlemanly self forward. I would really love to get some concrete ideas on how to address these few items. Hugz.

  217.  #217Victoria on June 18, 2015 at 9:13 am

    Dear Shelly,
    From what you have written, you want to change his behavior, and, as you will hear repeatedly from many of the wonderful ladies on this blog, each of us here has found out that it simply can not work.
    I am going to speak about my own experience and about what I have gathered from the collective wisdom here.
    Whether a man steps up or not is his choice and there is nothing you can do to speed him up or change his mind. Attempts to ask him to think about the future will only breed resistance. It is a man’s job to think about the future, and he does, he will let you know when HE thinks the time is right. Until then, you can safely assume that he wants nothing more that what he currently has, and you may have to recognize you and him want different things. This is the exclusivity trap.
    What Rori advises to do is to have the “no girlfriend” speech, i.e. tell the man in his face that you will date other men unless he moves forward. This is a very scary thing to do.
    There are a few ladies here who have tried it out: for one I think it worked temporarily but then she discoverd down the line that she and him were not such a good fit (and may be he was on the fence about being with someone else), and for another lady it worked quite well because she managed to spark his jealosy and he stepped up.
    I have chosen a third way, that is I am seeing other men occasionally, I am CDing without being too honest with him. The reason is that I do not want to put any pressure on him. I do not necessarily need to be married or living with him ( I would be open to if he was crazy about the idea) but I just not want to be the one to suggest it, it would be a major turn-off to me to be asking for full commitment is he is not giving it full-heartedly and with zero pressure.
    I am sorry that I do not have any pracical tips how to change a man :-). Please come back and share if you find some useful ones somewhere else.

  218.  #218Azure Blu on June 18, 2015 at 9:44 am

    thank you for the added information…
    I agree with what Victoria has shared with you.

    It is NOT our job to change anyone….
    Dominique always says…
    Can you accept him just the way he is right now?

    Honestly… the door opening, given all that he is doing, doesn’t sound that big of a deal..

    are you sure you haven’t taken to
    the intimacy busting “nit-picking?”
    because YOU need some space to spend time
    with YOU and LOVING you
    Loving YOUR feelings?

    I feel curious,
    Why are you moving to his town if there hasn’t been talk of commitment/marriage…?

  219.  #219Azure Blu on June 18, 2015 at 9:56 am

    about back tracking when in an exclusivity…
    You have to make VERY sure it is something YOU can do…
    NOT as a threat… NOT for the chase… but because…
    you have asked for what you need and things are NOT changing
    i have back tracked to cding with 2 of my ex’s
    the reasons were i was not getting my needs met…
    It WAS good for ME BUT
    it was VERY hard when they didn’t/couldn’t step up-
    I am not with either one.

    But there are ladies on here who it worked out and their man could step up!

  220.  #220Azure Blu on June 18, 2015 at 12:16 pm

  221.  #221Mandy on June 18, 2015 at 1:30 pm

    Artist’s Walk lesson for me- ever get lost inside the spiral of a rose when you smell it to get that fragrant aromatherapy? 😀

  222.  #222Shelley on June 18, 2015 at 1:33 pm

    Thanks so much Victoria & Azure, I really appreciate your thoughts. FYI, I plan on moving to the town for my own reasons, I own a house there….that was my plan before I met him.

    Thank you for the reinforcement that the no GF speech is the only way for me to go in the future if necessary….as I noted, I’ve no interest in playing that card right now as we are only 6 months into getting to know each other & I’m not ready to state that I want a ring LOL (what you said resonated with me & brought the phrase be careful what you ask for to mind!) I am enjoying the here & now of what we do have, focusing on something I haven’t yet determined I truly want long term is silly.

    As noted, I’m new to practicing Rori’s tools….so perhaps I’ve misunderstood or am reading too much into setting & articulating boundaries and using feeling messages to express myself and what makes me happy.

    I’m truly not trying to be nitpicking or ambivalent, perhaps I am & don’t know it or I’m just not expressing my thoughts on here correctly. I do agree that these by themselves are not big issues, however as I am only just trying to learn to practice Rori’s tools, I’d love to start practicing her tools for the small things and I do see the errors I have made in past relationships and in this relationship so far….I guess that was part of my question, how or is it possible to correct the mistakes I’ve already made in the relationship.

    I know I am worthy of being treated like a lady all the time, not just when convenient for him….I thought that he can’t have a chance to decide to step up to the plate & treat me that way if I don’t tell him & thus give him the opportunity. I thought that expressing what makes me feel wonderful without making him wrong was the way to express…uuggghhh maybe I’m overthinking all of this…my brain feels like it’s going to explode! LOL

    I am truly just trying to be the best person I can be and would love to start implementing Rori’s tools as I see long-term potential in this relationship & would love to give it the best chance I can while being true to myself.

  223.  #223Azure Blu on June 18, 2015 at 2:53 pm

    Shelley #222
    Wow that all sounds VERY sireny!

    Yes, practicing is what we all do everyday!!

    For me what has worked, if my man does something I truly like… I share my appreciation and how cared for and special he makes me feel when he does X…
    Men love to make us feel safe and happy…
    they usually continue to do those things you
    Show appreciation with feeling messages.

  224.  #224Azure Blu on June 18, 2015 at 3:17 pm

    Lovely YOU!!!
    *YOU* are blossoming more and more
    each day!

  225.  #225Victoria on June 19, 2015 at 12:00 am

    What I have noticed to help a man to step up/act more gentelmanly is when you lean back.
    I have found this to be difficult to execute because it is somehow counter-intuitive/against what I have done all my life. What would come naturally is to 1)tell him how I want to be treated 2)pout and/or nag if he fails to do it.
    The Rori way would be to lean back, focus on yourself, be SUPER NICE TO YOURSELF and take your mind on what he is and he is not doing.
    My Goodness, this is so hard to do! I am trying to practice every day, sometimes I manage, sometimes I don’t.
    I also gather that the effective way to help him change the way he is treating you is “encourage good behavior, disregard bad”. My natural instinct would be “encourage good behavior, punish bad” but this is actually not as effective with human beings. Human beings notice when they are getting punished, and they resist and fight against the act of punishment, no matter the cirsumstances. Plus, it is really not romantic.
    By the way, besides my dad, and professional chauffeurs, no man has ever held car doors opened for me. It would be nice to get that, and if you feel appreciation for him doing it for you, you should by all means say it, and repeat at least 10 times that he is the most wonderful gentleman you have ever met. Men love that!

  226.  #226Mandy on June 25, 2015 at 6:41 pm

    J is further out of my heart, the attraction is dead, now he’s just kind of furniture in my apartment.

    I want him to go so bad but I am getting ready to say it and I don’t know how to get ready for anything like that, in fact I like hearing myself say sometimes were not ready we just have to do and not think too much…

    G however wants me to move up to where he is in the state and I think to myself, hm, bend to a man’s will, not likely these days unless he’s offering something great, lol.

    There are already plans however of us having alone time together if I do finally live alone sometime in the near future, made all by him, he is the pursuer here, which is wonderful. I can’t help but glow from it. What I really dig is he doesn’t even think it’s a rough thing at all for him to drive a few hours to come see me. When that happens it’s nothing but two kids frolicking really. Fun as can be. I like this because I feel fun, young, and free spirited with G, being just myself. Because I trust him, he trusts me, we vibe off each other and it’s wonderful.

    But I can’t do any living together with anyone else for a while, lol, not after what’s happened with J. I need to be circular dating and no one’s girlfriend for a long time. The last time I took a break from serial monogamy was before J, and that’s how I found Rori and the Sirens, so this time I feel I will need time to really see where I stand, what I need, don’t need, want and don’t want, and just feel what it’s like to not have anyone run my freaking show, lol.
    Then after that, if I’ve figured out that I am very happy with G shooting his awesome romantic arrows at me, I’ll let him shoot me with his best shot and see what happens, lol. I do want closeness and touching. Intimacy, fun, laughs, good times, mutual helpfulness and support. But right now I can get that without being anyone’s girlfriend. Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free, lol.

    What I notice he offers as a guy is good heart masculinity, manners and a soul, with passion mixed in. But I haven’t figured out everything I need and want yet.

  227.  #227Mistea1 on June 27, 2015 at 10:56 am

    Mandy 226,
    Good points Mandy, A “see where I am period.” is always a good thing. I am doing that too. Best to you.

  228.  #228Dauny on August 19, 2015 at 12:08 am

    Regarding the Blog article, the woman who wrote about giving a man a chance that’ she did not have an instant attraction with…she developed feelings over time, but drove him away with fits of rage…this has been my experience when giving a man a chance. It does not work for me. The fits of rage are resentment because he’s the perfect man for loving her. A good guy because he was more in to her at first, compared to others with whom she felt more of an initial attraction with; but he’s not everything she desires. She (I, we) expects to much of him. No one is the perfect man, and despite him being a relatively good guy who loves her, she resents him for lacking that something she desires. That is why she feels at peace without him. He is not for her. That is why I no longer give anyone a chance who I do not feel all that attracted to. The attraction is lacking for a reason and you can get caring feelings for anyone over time. She and others who find themselves lashing out at the man who willingly commits and wins her over, should not feel so hard on herself. Just because he wants to commit and is a good guy that doesn’t light her fire does not mean he’s right for her. Stay at peace without him. It’s a lot better that way, in my opinion and experience.