When He Hurts Your Feelings – How Do You Tell Him?

Untitled design (14)

Here’s a question from Renee (#70 in the comment queue) that brings up one of the most common and most destructive things when we’re hoping a relationship will get off the ground and soar:

Hi Everyone,

This is my first post on this site. I just ordered Commitment Blueprint and am feeling very excited while I wait for its arrival.

I do have a question, though, that I’d love to get your input on…

There’s this guy I’ve been seeing for a little while long distance. We met on eHarmony and emailed, txted and then talked on the phone for a total of about 2.5 months before we met in person. At that point, we had been txting everyday for several weeks and talking on the phone 3-4 times a week.

Anyway, we live about 6 hours apart and for the first meeting, he drove to my city to meet me. We initially had just planned on having a Friday night date (he stayed at a nearby hotel), but we enjoyed each other’s company so much that we also went out to breakfast Saturday and then went out again Saturday night (I had to work some Saturday afternoon, so he had to entertain himself for a few hours, which he seemed ok with).

During that weekend, he was so considerate and generous, that it really impressed me. He arrived Friday with a book by an author we both like, showed up Saturday for lunch with flowers and picked me up for dinner with a little trinket he had purchased at a tourist attraction he visited while I was working Saturday afternoon. I felt very comfortable with him and by Saturday night, we were holding hands a lot and sharing casual kisses like people who’ve been dating a while.

So, the next episode of the story goes like this — before he left my city during his first visit, he asked if maybe we could get together again in his city. I said I thought we could work something out and when the subject of July 4th weekend came up, I mentioned that that might be a good weekend for that visit we talked about. (I know — I should have waited for him to suggest). Mistake number 2 was that I booked the ticket myself using my airline miles instead of letting him handle it (he made some motions towards handling it, but I didn’t feel like he was being decisive enough about making it a definite plan, although there were some extenuating circumstances for both of us that prevented us from making the plans firm in advance. So the end result was that I booked my ticket on Friday for a Sat-Mon visit (staying at his house).

He showed up at the airport with a can of my favorite soft drink and a monkey he’d won for me that morning while out to breakfast with some buddies (playing one of those games you see in the lobby of some restaurants). Things still felt good.

The weekend was full of tons of his friends (he has a boat dock at his house and he owns a boat with a couple of friends, so his house tends to be the gathering place for his group of friends when they go out on the boat). He had warned me that the July 4th weekend was a big boating weekend and would and that we would be surrounded by his friends, but we had had a quiet weekend at my house 2 weeks prior, so I didn’t mind spending a lot of the time with his pals…he was affectionate and solicitous throughout the trip, and I ended up sleeping with him the first night of the stay (despite my initial intention to hold off for at least another night or two).

By the way, mistake number 3 was that I took his car to Starbucks Sun morning and he was extremely low on gas, so I filled up the car…he had mentioned that the car was low on gas and that there was some cash in the console if I needed to put in some, but I took it upon myself to fill up the tank anyway.

I think he felt kind of guilty that I had filled up his gas tank and I’m not sure, but that might have been his motivation for buying me a Coach purse when we went shopping at an outlet mall near his house on Monday. It was sweet, but I would have appreciated it more if I didn’t suspect he was “paying me back” for filling his gas tank.

So, to make a long story longer, lol, my trip got extended a day because of a screw up with the return ticket and I think we were both reeeaaally ready for me to head back home by the time I left Tues — work was beckoning each of us and we were both exhausted.

Fast forward to this week — got txts from him Tues evening to see if I got in ok and got a couple of txts Wed, during which I shared that a situation I had been dreading was likely coming to a head on Thurs (it was a situation we had discussed in earlier conversations).

So…not a word from him Thurs or Fri, despite the fact that he knew I was likely being faced with a pretty difficult and stressful situation (long story, but the gist is that my best friend abused my trust and I ended up having to call the police on her for taking some of my property…an action which obviously severed the relationship and has been very stressful).

He finally touched base with me Saturday morning with a text indicating that he had gone to bed early Fri (which I guess was his way of letting me know he didn’t do anything that night) and asking me about work and the situation with my (now former) friend.

I was so hurt that he decided to choose that time — the time I was obviously going to be facing something stressful — to pull a disappearing act. My feelings of rejection, of course, were compounded by the fact that we had become sexually inimate the weekend before, so I was feeling vulnerable about that.

We haven’t discussed our future at all (it seems a little early to have that discussion?) though we did talk early on about the fact that we were both looking for someone special as opposed to just looking for someone to date.

So my question is this — I know I’m not supposed to ask a guy why he hasn’t called, but his not calling (with all the extenuating circumstances) hurt my feelings and made me feel ignored. I didn’t answer his text from Saturday because I wasn’t sure whether to communicate my feelings to him or follow the rule about not questioning him about not calling.

Could you please give me some guidance? I was kind of curious as to whether he’d follow up his text from yesterday with another text or call today, despite the fact that I didn’t reply, but I realize this is partially game playing and I’m trying to be more authenticate in my actions. On the other hand, I feel as though I’ve leaned forward a bit too much and since I can tell from his past actions that this guy definitely has it in him to row the boat (if he so chooses), I’m also kind of feeling like not answering is a way of leaning back to see if he’ll step forward again. What do you think?


Here’s my answer:

Renee – your holding back until you get clear on how to answer makes perfect sense…as long as it’s not playing games.

Not answering a man who’s clearly asked you to respond to him is a no-no. It’s not truthful, it’s holding back, it’s self-protective, it does you no good.

This is why scripting in advance is helpful…

At this point in the relationship – coming from your feelings of “hurt” about his not calling is totally inappropriate – sorry.

Notice I’m not saying the feeling” of hurt is inappropriate – ALL your feelings are wonderful and crucial and your compass for how to live your life.

But “coming from” that place of hurt and resentment, without working it through – especially so early in this dating relationship (and that’s all it is right now…) will not work for you.

You have to process this feeling first, and then script how you want to share it with him.

Now…some options:

You can share with him that you’re fairly “high-maintenance,” and that you noticed you were feeling weird and bad without contact with him during that rough space that week, and that you realize that you require a level of contact in a relationship that might be a deal-breaker for you and a relationship with him, if he’s not that kind of person…IF that IS a deal-breaker.

When you enter into a “partnership” with someone – that’s when you share upsets, work through stuff, etc…as it comes up – and you can then work through the way what triggers you triggers HIM – and wade through it all – but in this phase, when he’s just feeling around to see what he wants with you…you need to be Circular Dating – so that you don’t FEEL this hurt!!!

In other words – he doesn’t exist unless he’s right in front of you – physically or by phone, email…and when you DO need to express stuff to him (after you’ve worked it through your own process, it comes out like this: “You know…when I was going through all that crap with my friend, and those days I didn’t hear from you – I felt all weird and icky. I guess I need a lot of TLC and contact…so I was wondering if we’re a good match there?”

See – that’s WAY different than telling him he did something wrong and HURT you.

At this point, you just don’t have context and commitment and TIME with him to process through that kind of drama.

What you want to do is USE this situation as an opportunity to build a deeper emotional bridge with him.

Because if you stuff this down, you’ll feel sugar-coated and fake, and you don’t want that.

And if you tell him he “hurt” you – he’s going to feel attacked and back off.

But – if you share your experience and your feeling state with him, in a positive spirit of wanting to use this opportunity to open your heart and let him know who you are…that feels GREAT to a man!

Make sense?

He sounds like the kind of guy who wants to make you happy – and you sound like the kind of girl who has difficulty receiving from a man.

That’s your challenge.

As for what’s going on now between you: Either the receiving you want from him – his calling you and consoling you and caring about your well-being – is not in his style of “giving”…

OR – he’s backing up a bit and wants to limit his emotional involvement until he knows what he wants with you –

Your job here is to be emotionally forthcoming and open – WITHOUT making him WRONG – and “hurt” is just one of those words that says “you screwed up” to a man.

The thing of it is, you wanted something from him he didn’t give you – and you want to openly communicate what makes you happy so he can do those things – but not make him feel bad in the process.

Think of this – so MANY things happened between you up to now that were weird and uncomfortable – and no one said anything! You could have brought up the ticket, or the gas tank, and had an open discussion there about feeling weird about it…

The attitude I want you to have is this:

1. I’m going through a tough time.

2. I’m dating many men, and hanging back and observing which one can make me the happiest.

3. This tough time is an opportunity for you to show me how good you can be at making me happy.

4. I noticed you didn’t call to check up on me and how I’ve been doing.

5. This felt bad, because I really wanted you to come out as top man, here – but I realize now I shouldn’t be focusing on any one man – even you – so I’m just now focusing on what it is I feel and need, and how I those feelings and needs might “morph” by…

6. Making this adjustment: By believing that I am loved by me, by the world, by the universe, and by you – that the ‘Waterwheel” of love is ALWAYS turning towards me – and that when I DO share my feelings and needs and upsets and disturbances (even the drama-filled ones) with you…it can be in the spirit of sharing my heart and opening up the opportunity for both of us to go deeper – and NOT as an act of my hurt or resentment or anger and attempt to shame you or change you.

So, Renee, walk yourself through this process, and then try scripting out a way to express this next time you meet in person or by phone that would HELP him get to know you, and HELP him know how to make you happy – rather than do the damage of explaining to him what he did wrong to hurt you.

Realize that you are in a time of evaluating him – NOT trying to CHANGE him or mold him…

If you can keep this attitude and this spirit – you can pretty much say ANYTHING that feels real to you…

Now – the most important step here is for you to work on your Receiving. You’ve got a masculine energy man there, and you’re blocking his energy by putting up your masculine front…it’s showing up in those things you did (the things were irrelevant – it’s just what they demonstrate about your ‘vibe” that counts)…and the fact that you’re focusing on him so hard.

It’s WAY too soon for you to be exclusive with him, or considering him anything more than a “date” – even though you are now sexually intimate. That has nothing to do with it.

This is all about you bringing out the soft in you so it can live on your outside, and he can get “in” to you. (Like the fern on the rock in the picture.)

Love, Rori

Posted in


  1.  #1Renee on August 1, 2010 at 12:35 pm

    Just an update on long distance guy…he contacted me again after that post, but was obviously pulling back, so I told him this wasn’t working for me and wished him well.

    Then I made the mistake of drunk-texting him last night (I think he was a little drunk himself — we said sweet things to each other and “kissed” good night in a text) but I doubt I’ll hear from him again. He was obviously pulling back for a reason, and I don’t know what it was, but if I follow Rori’s advice, I can’t actually ASK him why he pulled back, though I would really like to know. Yes, I know, I’m not supposed to care why he does what he does, just whether he does or not, but I do, and that’s just the truth.

  2.  #2Daria on August 1, 2010 at 1:24 pm

    Renee – do you care because you think there is somethign “wrong” with you and that you have to fix?

    are you trying to find what that thing is and fix it?

    do you think that if you were loving yourself even with something wrong you would be interested in “WHY he pulled away?”

    – what if you asked you What was his message?

    What is the message? Why did he show up here, for you, right now?

  3.  #3Daria on August 1, 2010 at 1:28 pm

    I don’t think a man couldl point out to me what was wrong. I think only I can decide when I want to change something. I don’t think anything’s wrong with me…

    except that i’m cold, distant, masculine, weird, crazy, non sensical, non realistic, depressed, got one loose in the head, dominating, bored, picky, controlling, bossy, insensitive, superficial,

    and afraid. very afraid. of what? of being seen for who i am

    clumsy. unattractive. childlike and dumpy. boyish, non paying attention to my appearance and sexuality.

    happy doing phyisical activities, laughing, making fun of people

    being boy

  4.  #4Daria on August 1, 2010 at 1:59 pm

    what else… being so smart im like brain genius… just a big pink brain.. in a space suit…

    and stupid too when i smoke… sooo slow and stupid…

    and afriad of people… dont stend up to myself… let people walk over me and humiliate me… oh no… embarassing in front of man

    how can he respect me

    i dont respect me

    i feel weird

    i dont like this list

    i love me and all of me

  5.  #5Tina on August 1, 2010 at 2:03 pm

    What is the message? Why did he show up here, for you, right now?

    yes, why did he show up here for me,? right now?

  6.  #6Renee on August 1, 2010 at 2:05 pm

    Daria — I would like to know so I can avoid whatever it was again. I know I took on performed some masculine actions, but honestly, I was much better at receiving from this guy than I have been in the past, mostly because he gave me so much and I had just started reading Rori then, so I was working on just letting myself receive.

    I don’t know what the lesson was other than I can’t let myself get involved sexually with someone until I feel more sure of them…it’s just too hard for me to “shake it off” if/when something goes wrong once my hormones get involved.

  7.  #7Siena on August 1, 2010 at 2:32 pm

    This post is very helpful to me, and has shown me a side of myself that I’d like healed. I also get too emotionally invested too soon, and need to fix that about myself.

    #1 CD is still backed off, although we exchanged a couple of texts that explain why. The reasons don’t have to do with me, although I can’t help but think if I had his heart, things would be different. And then I realize it’s STILL too early for me to be thinking that way. I should still be in observation mode of him and how he treats me..

    So, back up energetically, understand the lesson here, and date others.

    I wonder if I’ve screwed it all up again by being too eager? Do I have to start from scratch again? Maybe. Maybe not.

    I’ve filled my life up with great things that make me happy, and yet time and time again, I fall in love with men before they know if they want a real relationship with me. It’s hurtful when they end it, and I have to start over.

    Part of that is my personality… I easily see the good in people -not just men – and can love easily.

    But now I know that my ability to live easily translates to pressure on him… Something I don’t want.

    And the frustrating thing is… I don’t even DO the leaning forward things (except every so often I do as an experiment). But I know now it’s in my vibe.

    I honestly don’t know how to make myself care less. But I can work on changing my thoughts so that I NEVER think about a man unless he’s in front of me.

    How exhausting!

    Why is this so difficult!?

  8.  #8Daria on August 1, 2010 at 2:41 pm

    Renee – but you see… Avoiding that thing because he didn’t like it will not mean anything for you and your dating life. He may likely Not know what it is… I asked the questions as a start on the process of going deeper… What rori recommends in the post…

    What is the message from this man… ?

  9.  #9Kimberly on August 1, 2010 at 5:58 pm

    Hmmm…I don’t know if I would have broken things off with him completely. When a man pulls back I let him him have his space and do nothing, be nothing, and allow them to come out of what ever it is in they are in. I had the impression (via post) that you were interested, even with your masculine energy and all–but hey, you said you’d work on that. I also had the impression you thought he was interested in you as well. No man travels that far for non-interest. If you want this guy, you can still have him and get your needs met too.

  10.  #10lm on August 1, 2010 at 6:39 pm

    i loved the ‘attitude’…it reminds me of when i was in a long-distance relationship (he was away half the year for a job) and i sort of forgot about him when he was gone and i was secure in his feelings for me, trusted him…i dated and hung back, had fun, hung out with a tonne of different guys…no sex but lots of fun! i think i was CDing without realising it!!!

  11.  #11Lizzie on August 1, 2010 at 6:45 pm

    Oh I went out CD today – met a new guy from OKCupid…I am going to take myself off that site. OMG this was so bad I am totally laughing. Now what is his message. Hmmmm.
    Lizzie is not superficial
    Lizzie is looking for a deep relationship – it takes a long time to build a deep relationship – family guy is a good guy. I need to be patient, lean back, relax, provide a lot of space for him and for me; I am confident, I can give to myself, I do deserve a good man in my life. Family guy needs to process lots of stuff, he is doing it, just give him and myself lots of space. He is a good date. This is not a relationship. Take time and have fun with him.

  12.  #12Daria on August 1, 2010 at 7:28 pm

    Totally not my type but very traditionally handsome guy just got my number after chatting me up. I feel afraid I feel unworthy I feel afraid to be judged that I have dated all ghetto guys. I think can’t he see that I look like I’m dressed like a hip hop 17 year old, what is he thinking? I can’t even pay my phone bill I gave him my text number… Ack I felt afraid he’d detect weird ghettoeness in my voice what do I do? I’m Kim kardasjian I’m Kim kardasjian I love myself

  13.  #13Daria on August 1, 2010 at 7:29 pm

    He had blue eyes muscles… He looked like an abercrbie model I look like a rockawear model

  14.  #14Daria on August 1, 2010 at 7:31 pm

    He picked me up while I was standing there texting my date… My date mixed up the coffee shop I was 30 min late he accused me of lying . I said I don’t like that he said he’s here now

  15.  #15lm on August 1, 2010 at 7:37 pm


    funny that he hit you up while you were texting another guy who was late. like in commitment blueprint when Rori talks about one man picking up a woman who has fallen down and hurt her knee and her man isn’t there or isn’t equipped to help her.

  16.  #16Brenda on August 1, 2010 at 8:54 pm


    I hope you drunk text again. I don’t see why you needed to end it and tell him it wasn’t working. I thought you liked him. What did he do that was so wrong for you to end it? I think it’s right to just go silent and then it makes space for him to come to you.

    Rori, your comments on this post really help me clarify the inner attitudes that make CDing work.

    I met Balto yesterday and spent most of the day with him, since it was long distance. We went to see Iron Man II, which was intense and fun, and then out to eat, then to a reservoir to sit on a rock and talk, and then to Dunkin Donuts for coffee and more talking.

    He is very soft and gentle and warm, and I like that. He has a lot of health problems, and that concerns me. I don’t feel physically attracted to him.

    I didn’t like it that he kept trying to hold my hand and wanted to touch me, and at the end of the night wanted to kiss me. I am very affectionate, but not on a first date. It feels weird. I expressed that to him after the movie, and nonverbally during the movie, by pulling away. But he still kept on, and not forcefully, but just kept trying gently and repeating that he likes a lot of touching and cuddling. I verbalized it the best I could in feeling messages. I don’t sense he was being disrespectful. He just was not on the same wavelength yet, but he’ll get there.

    He said that’s fine, no pressure.

    I felt good to know that he wants me. It makes me feel more balanced when I evaluate Bill. And Ryan, who still fills my thots.

  17.  #17Brenda on August 1, 2010 at 9:54 pm

    Balto emailed me and shared a piece of writing with me. Awesome! He responded to me not just wanting a physical relationship! I feel good and connected.

    It’s called dating. Thank you very much!

  18.  #18Brenda on August 1, 2010 at 9:54 pm

    Hey Lizzie!

    How did your tool-sharing session go? 🙂

  19.  #19Brenda on August 1, 2010 at 9:55 pm


    How are you holding up? I feel concerned for you…

  20.  #20Tina on August 1, 2010 at 9:57 pm

    I finally called mr,eggshells back, I said hi, he said hi, we talked , in a good way. I wrote a small script before talking. I borrowed some stuff from this post above for my script

  21.  #21Tina on August 1, 2010 at 10:05 pm

    I paused between sentences, he said, I listened at level 2 , he said the last thing he wants to do is fight, his feelings havnt changed, he cant turn off /on his feelings , he said he felt hurt and more and more and the feeling just kept coming. he said he cant fix this by himself, he wanted it to stop. He said he called me a whore because it sounded derogatory enough, I said well its a very intense and sexual word, I dont feel like I whore, I was just feeling curious about why you chose that word, thats all.

  22.  #22Tina on August 1, 2010 at 10:08 pm

    We ended the convo , I said well Im going to hang up and go online, I told him about my “eggshell” feelings during my script, that feels good to me. I said even now by saying im going to hang up and go online, I feel like im walking on eggshells by saying that, he said, i cant help that, I dont know what to do about that, Im going to finish washing my floor. I said ok bye he said ok bye.

  23.  #23Tina on August 1, 2010 at 10:13 pm

    My mom called me , she said, I’m telling you to stay no Im commanding you to stay away from him then she laughed, she said to watch a movie ,she didnt know the name of it but she siad when she finds out she’ll call me back and let me know the name. she called me sweetie pie awe.

  24.  #24Tina on August 1, 2010 at 10:20 pm

    mr eggshells says he felt bad the whole time, I didnt talk to him, he said he felt like he was being punished for what he said to me. The berating really took off when he asked me how I felt about him, I was silent and tried to be as honest as possbile, thats when it all went to hell. The shower thing well whatever, I deal with it later. We did talk about that too.

  25.  #25Tina on August 1, 2010 at 10:34 pm

    I still dont understand how he got through my block and delete hm. anyway, Im not sure if he is willing to do what is required to make me happy, were still exclusive, but he did mention during his rant that he is considering keeping his options open so I dunno. I said if thats what you want to do then let me know because we did have an agreement about exclusivity, Im just reminding you that I have kept my part of the agreement, I want honesty in a relationship. he changed his mind and said no thats not what he wants to do.

  26.  #26Tina on August 1, 2010 at 10:43 pm

    I said to him, you know, when I was going through all that, I felt like I was walking on eggshells, I felt all stressed, and confused and scared and also very angry, I guess I need a lot of patience, and love and to I need to feel safe , so I am wondering if were a good match? that was part of my script 🙂

  27.  #27Tina on August 1, 2010 at 10:51 pm

    His ranting while on “therapy” is what i mean. He wants to go to New York next waaaaaaaaaaaa?

  28.  #28Tina on August 1, 2010 at 11:05 pm

    He did say that we did spend a lot of time together like my son would say, ‘up in your grill” hm yeah he was all up in my grill Mom. My son says he had a great time while I was away, Im sure you did son. he said he missed me and wanted me back home awe thanks buddy! I Feel good hearing that from you.

  29.  #29Renee on August 2, 2010 at 4:54 am

    Several of you all bring up good points and Siena, I totally get where you’re coming from with giving your heart away.

    I’m trying to figure out what lesson I need to learn from this guy and the main thing that keeps coming to me is that I need to wait longer to sleep with a guy…in Rori’s response, she said it’s immaterial that we were sexually involved…it may be immaterial to her and it may be immaterial to him, but it’s not immaterial to me. A piece of my heart goes to someone I’ve slept with, especially when I’ve been with them repeatedly, so it makes it harder to sit back and be in “observational” mode.

    During that wknd in his city, I felt very relaxed and cherished, so I didn’t feel the need to cling or ask ‘where this is going’ or anything like that…it wasn’t until a few days after I’d returned home that I started feeling a little needy, because his frequency of communication dropped off so markedly. I made it a point, though, to still not lean forward and keep my txts light-hearted and fun, but inside, I was feeling rejected because he was obviously backing off.

    It seems a little weird that he would respond so warmly to me on Saturday and then not be interested enough to follow up at all, but there’s nothing I can really do about it at this point. I reopened the lines of communication with my drunk text, so he must know at this point that a text or call from him would be welcome.

    But back to the ‘lesson’…I’m going to have to show some sexual restraint in the future if I want to obtain my long-term goal of marriage…it was difficult to hold off this guy because he was so sweet in tending to my every need and he’s very good looking (he’s been asked to do some magazine work as a fitness model in the past) as well as being quite successful financially, but I think it’s fair to say that he’s a little closed emotionally, and that might explain why he’s still single at 45.

    So…I continue to interact with a number of other men and have some upcoming dates with them, but I would love to hear from this guy again…if I reach out to him again, though, I think I would be leaning so far forward that I feel like I’d fall flat on my face — what do you think? And if I did contact him again, it would be part of a “scheme” to get him more interested in me, and that all feels too much like the old me to actually accomplish anything, you know?

  30.  #30Renee on August 2, 2010 at 5:02 am

    Brenda — I feel confused…what kind of relationship are you wanting with Balto? A strictly platonic relationship? Or are you hoping that if you just continue to enjoy his company that he might grow on you as far as the physical attraction goes? And what did he agree to? Having a platonic friendship or just holding of with all the touching ‘for now’?

    Siena — do you mind if I ask what #1 CD’s reasons are for backing off? I feel relieved for you that you don’t feel like you’re in any way responsible for his pulling back, but I also identify with your feeling that if you truly had his heart, things might be different…that’s how I feel about long distance guy. I hope, like me, that you’re able to stay leaning back and in observational mode for a longer time in the beginning of a relationship…it’s really hard to do when you start liking someone a lot. Are you physically intimate with #1 CD? How has that affected your feelings, if at all? I hope I’m not prying by asking…

  31.  #31dorothea on August 2, 2010 at 8:20 am

    Hi, hope everyone had a nice weekend. I had a lovely weekend with LI. We spend lots of time together and never get sick of each other. It’s scary, really. I feel like a bad girl when I spend all my free time with him. We spent some time apart…he walked me to a dinner date with my good girl friend and then when it was over he picked me up (on foot, no car) to escort me safely at night, but we ended up going back to his house and falling asleep.

    Now that we are back in sync with each other I am feeling pangs of uninterestedness. Totally my own issue. He is great.

    Sometimes I wonder if the “right” guy won’t inspire any uninterested feelings in me. But then I remember that my history is one of being abandoned by everyone I love, and I am a CHASER by nature, so I think any guy that I start to feel secure with will cause me to feel uninterested.

    I feel afraid that I will meet someone else who interests me more, and I will stop seeing my LI over that, and then the new guy will turn out to be a f*cker (this has happened to me before).

  32.  #32Lizzie on August 2, 2010 at 8:30 am

    Hi Brenda – I just picked up your note and will scroll back to see what all is happening with the sirens…
    Family Guy needs a new name – awesome tool guy 🙂
    We only had a short time together and it was wonderful! He said he needs to go find more tools in his basement for me LOL.
    I have been able to glean that he has some pretty significant issues with his ex on the go. I am not going down that path and I don’t want to bring her bad energy into our dates – so I am quite happy to leave lots of space and have him as #1 on my CD rolodex – it is irrelevant that there are no others on my rolodex….

    I met this other guy from OK Cupid yesterday – It was so bad even practice was impossible. I have cruised through the portfolio at OKCupid and am not impressed. So I was about to take myself down and a new guy has made contact. I will practice with him.

    now to get caught up for a few moments…

  33.  #33Lizzie on August 2, 2010 at 8:49 am

    Brenda – Family guy is so cute….he is a sucker for a massage so after we talked for a while – mostly about our kids and why I learned how to do massages – I gave him such a beautiful massage – but we did get side-tracted. LOL
    Anyway, all of a sudden he said oh, I must do all these things for you…took all the knobs off the dresser for me, was looking at my space to see how it could be re-organized to accomodate all my files…he just got so into male energy. What a delight. So somehow, even though I leaned in, I feel the experiment had a lovely result. I am feeling safer with him – I think he is feeling safer with me. We both have to go to another city and might have overlapping dates while there – as I lived in that city for a while, I suggested I take him out on the town and he really liked the idea. I know that is leaning in again; however it feels good. I am not so sure it will actually happen, but he was keen.

    With the CD and practicing tools, I am actually feeling good about dating. In some odd way, I am now happy I didn’t see him for almost 2 months. That gave me time to let go of neediness I didn’t realize I had; work more on loving myself so that I could really make love with him in a very open recieving way; it all feels lovely. And if I don’t see him for another two months, I don’t think I will panic. Seems so different than what I would have felt/experienced in the past. What are your thoughts?

  34.  #34Brenda on August 2, 2010 at 9:51 am

    Renee, on #30, if I were dating in my usual way, I would say I had a really nice time, and we can be friends, but I’m not interested in more than friendship.

    However, since I am choosing to do it Rori’s way, she said look at it as dating without being attached to the outcome. No concerns about making it end in marriage or not. So I am getting to know him. I think he has a lot of inner depth and warmth and I am keeping my options open.

    I don’t have to choose today if I am going to marry him, right? That’s what dating is for. I am just sharing with you all my initial perceptions of him. I am not physically attracted. I am not letting him move it to a boyfriend-girlfriend relationship, which he would have on our first date if I had gone along with what he wanted.

    What do you think?

  35.  #35Brenda on August 2, 2010 at 10:04 am


    Sounds wonderful! I’m happy you had a nice time!

  36.  #36Brenda on August 2, 2010 at 10:14 am

    I got to work late today, about 10:05, and I thot I had a 10 am meeting. I wore my pants which are now 7-8 yrs old, and the back seam split when I sat down fast. Turns out I had the time wrong for the meeting, but after that happened, I walked to Bill’s desk, holding my canvas computer bag behind my behind. I asked Bill if I could borrow his white lab coat! He said yes of course, and he smiled in a teasing way when he looked down to see me holding the bag behind myself. It was pretty funny! So a woman gave me directions to a nearby mall and I bought a pair of pants on sale.

    What a way to start a Monday! But at least I can smile about it! 🙂

  37.  #37Renee on August 2, 2010 at 10:18 am

    Hi Brenda — I was just curious about what you were thinking about with this guy as far as the no physical affection thing…it seems that whenever I meet a guy that I’m not attracted to and decide I want to be “just friends”, he is inevitably drawn to me and wants more than just friendship, so I was curious about how you were handling your lack of physical attraction for him.

    If you enjoy his company, though, and he’s not pushing you to be his girlfriend, then it seems like an enjoyable way to spend some time. I went out Saturday night with a platonic friend and had a nice time…I have to admit, I enjoy myself more when I feel an attraction to the guy I’m with, but this guy’s been a good friend to me and I enjoy his company.

    Any other guys on the line?

  38.  #38Brenda on August 2, 2010 at 10:43 am


    In my experience, most men have tended to grope me or at least try to get cuddly and touchy and kissy prematurely. It is a big turn-off to me. In the past, I had zero experience or skills in setting boundaries, and I just let it happen. I had been taught to do as I told, and what did I know beyond that?

    This time around, we went first to the theater. He’s a big man, so I didn’t object when he put his arm around me. He really had little shoulder room, and that was visible. About halfway thru the movie, he held my hand. I sat there motionless for about 5 minutes, then gently pulled my hand away. I didn’t return any of his touches, altho it felt good.

    Then on the way out of the theater, he asked me if I didn’t want to be touched. I told him no, I don’t feel comfortable with that when I first meet someone. At the restaurant, he asked me a few questions, and among them was, “What do you want to do differently now in a relationship than what you did in the past?”

    I said I want to take my time to get to know a man, and get to know him from the inside out.

    He apparently didn’t get it from all that, and I guess some men just have this internal model that women are for relating to emotionally and physically, and that’s it. That’s what you do with a woman.

    So at the reservoir, after sitting on the rocks and talking, we walked along the shore, and he held my hand. I kind of stood there and went with it, thinking I am going to have to get even more direct. He wasn’t being forceful or pushy, just persistent. So at my first opportunity, when we turned to go, I just dropped his hand.

    We went for coffee, and he said about 4 different times throughout the date he likes a lot of touching and cuddling.

    We said good bye in the car. He turned and put his arms around me, touching my neck, head, and shoulders gently. He was trying to turn my head for a kiss, and I just kept it to the side. Finally he asked, “Do you want a kiss?”

    I said, “No, thank you, sorry.” He said that’s okay, and I said good night.

    So I emailed him last night more definitively that I don’t feel comfortable being touchy and cuddly with a man when I’m not committed to him, and especially not when I’m just getting to know him.

    I’m sure if I had been a little more assertive from the start, he wouldn’t have tried so many times. But I really didn’t feel forced, so I saw no need to hurt his feelings. My main concern is to not hurt his feelings in the long term by being touchy feely up front and then telling him no.

    So my intention is to have primarily talking and hugs, to get to know his heart, mind, and spirit, to evaluate him, as Rori worded it. What do you think?

  39.  #39Brenda on August 2, 2010 at 10:47 am


    As for other guys on the line, here is what I have:

    Kenny – exhusband in prison with a 10 year history

    Ryan – exwhoknowswhat from last year. I’m still in love with him; he broke my heart; he has distanced himself and we have no relationship at present, while he seeks healing from schizophrenia

    Bill – wonderful scientist at work with whom I have a meeting in 15 min. I wish he would step up and ask me out for a real date.

    Green Man – Man from NJ who I haven’t met yet. We had a terrific conversation on the phone a few weeks ago. He has been busy with expo meetings on weekends, and he has been emailing me.

  40.  #40Renee on August 2, 2010 at 11:39 am

    I feel so nervous! I just got off the phone with the reporter who’s covering the story about my former best friend who took off with my vehicle and the woman is making up crazy allegations! She’s saying that I called her to borrow money from her and her solution was to buy my suv…of course, I never asked to borrow a dime from her (she wouldn’t have had the money even if I had asked her to borrow any) and she still kept driving my suv for 2 frickin months while promising to pay me! The reporter is an old friend of mine and he says he believes me (not her) but that he is going to print both sides of the story (he really has no choice in that regard) but hopefully, it will be written with a little favoritism towards me.

    I am trying to love my fear and nervousness…I’m finding it hard to do though:-(. I think the story will run in the paper tomorrow.

    I’m afraid my current clients may end up thinking that I’m broke and don’t pay my bills or something and that’s not good…I just pray that people can see through her bulls**t, you know?

  41.  #41Brenda on August 2, 2010 at 11:48 am


    What goes around comes around. You have done nothing wrong, and it will all be clear sooner or later.

  42.  #42Brenda on August 2, 2010 at 11:51 am

    A different woman is taking over Bill’s part of our document project, which we’ve been working on together since December. Today I asked him why. I didn’t expect a deeply honest answer, especially in a meeting. But I asked him casually just to watch his reaction. He paused, looked at me with a strange look, then said it’s because he is needed for another project. So I can’t draw any certain conclusions, but my theory is the supervisor didn’t want us working together closely when it is possibly getting romantic. Who knows. I just hope that this switch will result in him asking me out. So far, it’s just been coffee breaks and one time to lunch in the company cafeteria. I am getting bored of him keeping me at arm’s length.

  43.  #43Renee on August 2, 2010 at 12:05 pm

    Brenda — Well, hopefully now that he’s not on the project with you, something will move forward for you there. I hope so — he sounds like a good match for you.

    I feel so antsy and fearful right now — I just got a text from the guy who’s driving 3.5 hours to meet me Saturday and we firmed up our plans, but I’m so distracted by this pending newspaper story that I’m not even looking forward to it…

  44.  #44Cinnamon on August 2, 2010 at 12:13 pm

    Oh Sirens, I need someone to talk some sense into me. I’m one step from turning into a crazy person! My 8 month LI dumped me a month ago and I was fine until a few days ago.

    I guess because he was texting me telling me he missed me and still loved me I was in denial that we were over. But last week he resurrected his match profile, has been speed dating and has added new women onto his fb who are all openly flirting with him. Queue feelings of panic, anxiety and obsessiveness. We were friends for 18 months before we were dating so he’s part of my close circles of friends which is where some of the info comes from. Friends being helpful as they want me to start moving on

    I’m writing on here to stop me from texting him (haven’t text him since we had ‘words’ last week when he went speed dating just hours after texting me to say he was missing me). I can’t stop obsessing over all the things I did wrong in the relationship. I check his fb profile several times a day. Read through all the texts and emails we sent. When I’m not crying. How can I snap out of it – cding is so far from my mind. I can’t even concentrate at work. I’ve been listening to heart connection cd on a loop but even that isn’t helping.

    How do you really let go when your heart is still hoping? I know it will pass but any tips?

  45.  #45Renee on August 2, 2010 at 12:38 pm

    Cinnamon — I have not sure-fire cure for what ails you, but you have my sympathy. I feel sad for you that you and this guy broke up and your heart is still yearning for the old relationship. But I do know this — getting out and getting a happy life will be the best thing for you…I’m working on doing that right now and it’s hard, but necessary. Do you think you have the strength to try a new hobby or volunteer somewhere? I understand that you wouldn’t be ready to CD yet, but pariticipating in a new hobby or spending your spare time volunteering may help you get your mind off things.

    And one other thing I know — if you do lean forward by texting him first, you’re reducing any shot you may have of reconciling with him, whereas if he sees you out living a full, happy life, he may start thinking more about how much he’s lost. Can you may yourself do more fun things for yourself, if only to show him that you’re doing well? In the meantime, you may find doing those things actually will help you feel better…what do you think?

  46.  #46Renee on August 2, 2010 at 12:39 pm

    Sorry about the typos…just kind of distracted this afternoon…

  47.  #47Brenda on August 2, 2010 at 12:44 pm


    The thing that helped (and helps!) me the most is spamming the heck out of this blog! Every time you feel like texting, write, write, write on here. These women are very supportive, and it will be an outlet for all your feelings, so you don’t bottle them up.

    Just please don’t give in to your desire to text him, like I did.

  48.  #48Brenda on August 2, 2010 at 12:51 pm


    Also keep a like list handy on your frig or whatever and do things you enjoy…or text or call a friend. Those writing outlets seemed to help me the most.

  49.  #49Jennifer on August 2, 2010 at 12:55 pm

    I don’t know what would help for you…but for me…I started a new hobby. I joined judo. I have to focus on only that for one night a week.
    So maybe that could help?
    What do you think?

  50.  #50dorothea on August 2, 2010 at 12:58 pm

    Yeah cinnamon write like crazy here! it’s ok!!! spam the hell out of us. try to stop looking at his profile.

    i still look at profiles i shouldn’t. bad bad siren me. hehe.

  51.  #51Jennifer on August 2, 2010 at 1:01 pm

    I just had a rough patch looking at profiles….sorta semi stalking………try hard not to.
    Watching a movie is good.
    or reading a trashy romance novel.
    Anything YOU like to do…that’s not looking or texting.

  52.  #52Brenda on August 2, 2010 at 1:17 pm


    I am assuming you are looking for ways to avoid physical intimacy with a man until you are ready. I took a lot of lessons from Ryan last year, who had a comparable approach of getting to know me before getting too touchy feely.

    He would not touch me, and if I touched him (I have been easing into Rori’s tools for over a year now), he would just not reciprocate.

    He said stuff like, “I want to be sure I’m with the right person.” He also made our nightly ritual for a couple months be just cuddling in bed while having pillow talk. It was delightful! I just loved it that for once a man was more interested to know who I was on the inside, not just the outside. I felt valued and respected.

  53.  #53Cinnamon on August 2, 2010 at 2:09 pm

    Thank you so much everyone. Its so helpful to know other people have been through it too.

    Been to the gym so feeling slightly less crazy. Its been six days which is the longest we have gone without contact but I know I can’t text him as I would just feel worst. I have to accept that he doesn’t want to be with me without those NV’s taking over and saying No Wonder!
    I love my feelings of anxiety and panic. He is clearing the way for the right man to come along…..

  54.  #54Jennifer on August 2, 2010 at 2:09 pm

    Has anyone seen 27 dressess?
    This is friggin painful to me.
    The woman has a vivacious blonde sister who attracts men like flies.
    Then swoops in and steals her boss that she’s in love with.
    Then this guy who is sending her flowers is only interested in her cause she represents a “story”.
    Is this supposed to be a comidy?
    I feel cringing.

  55.  #55Jennifer on August 2, 2010 at 2:42 pm

    this whole movie is just breaking my heart.
    But it’s like a train wreck..I can’t look away.

  56.  #56Lizzie on August 2, 2010 at 2:50 pm

    Here is a question for all the sirens – I came across my wedding photo. Shall I destroy it? Seems a waste, I was so pretty back then….and look so young but I was days away from being 30! I can’t really cut him out because he is wrapped around me….It has been 7 years. I suppose it is time to let it go. My kids don’t have anything to do with him anyway…

  57.  #57Cinnamon on August 2, 2010 at 3:01 pm

    Lizzie, How do the photos make you feel? If they make you feel bad then get rid of them. If they don’t then maybe put them away somewhere as you might like to look back at your young pretty face in 40 years time. xox

  58.  #58Tina on August 2, 2010 at 3:09 pm

    I woke up this morning with a thought “focus on my needs and wants” yeah, I feel focused but Im just not sure what it is I need or what right now. focusing period is tough, I like the way I feel when I say to myself “focus on my needs and wants” I feel stronger, more focused 🙂 just the exact needs and wants feels a bit confusing to me right now.

  59.  #59Tina on August 2, 2010 at 3:11 pm

    I feel triggered to the eyeballs when I think of mr, eggshells, I feel walking on eggshells. this is huge for me 🙂 focus on my needs and wants yeah

  60.  #60Lizzie on August 2, 2010 at 3:12 pm

    Cinnamon – I have no feelings – just kinda blah… Maybe I will just take it out of the frame and put it away. Some might think I should ditch them all and close the chapter. Funny though, I have a large wood sign with both our names on it – it is slated for a bonfire in 2 weeks – I am actually very excited about taking an ax to it and burning it – whoooo hooooo!!! And I am shredding tons and tons of files from the business we had together. I feel more satisfaction with this than the wedding photos. I did get rid of many of them – the ones I found are the posed photographer ones.

  61.  #61Tina on August 2, 2010 at 3:18 pm

    I feel walking on eggshells, when I think about mr,eggshells and focus on my needs and wants.

    Lizzie, do you feel triggered by looking at your wedding photos?

  62.  #62Lizzie on August 2, 2010 at 3:21 pm

    Tina, you might want to consider re-claiming your life. That is tough. If you have not been recognizing the abuse you have been experiencing, you will have challenges focusing on your needs and wants. Try looking at yourself this way:

    – what is really important to me? Make a list of 50 items
    like this:
    – creating stuff
    – cooking
    – knitting
    – playing with children
    – having a massage
    – going for a run
    – being in nature
    – making money
    – playing with others
    – totally awesome love making
    – feeling calm
    – feeling safe

    keep going – ok – 50 might not be enough, do 100.
    Then, review the list.
    Cluster up the stuff that seems to say the same thing.
    Look at the core themes.
    There will be 5-6 core themes.
    These will be indicators of your needs and wants – they may actually be your needs and wants.

  63.  #63Tina on August 2, 2010 at 3:21 pm

    I noticed soemthing me and my mom will buy the same stuff, like the same pajammas, or curtains or whatever, we do that a lot. I feel weird about that.

  64.  #64Cinnamon on August 2, 2010 at 3:23 pm

    Whilst I’m spamming here rather than texting him I have another question. I have been reading Evan Marc Katz’s ‘why he disappeared’ which has a slightly different perspective to Rori’s. I like the male perspective as it gives you both sides and also he echoes some of Rori’s stuff (like don’t contact the ex!) I can certainy identify things I would do differently – be a bit more laid back in the beginning for a start. I know some of his stuff triggers people on here.

    The bit that I find a little confusing is that he talks about making a man feel good around you and being compassionate, kind and generous helps with this. How do you show this without leaning forward? I have been told in the past that I act like I’m not interested when actually I’ve been attempting to ‘lean back’.
    What do other sirens do to show kindness and generousity without leaning forward?

  65.  #65Tina on August 2, 2010 at 3:27 pm

    Lizzie, I think I did a needs and wants list , a small list but a list.

  66.  #66Lizzie on August 2, 2010 at 3:31 pm

    make a bigger list! Like sexy undies, you can never have enough items on your list!

  67.  #67Lucy on August 2, 2010 at 3:33 pm

    Hi everyone. I have a lot of posts to catch up on!

    Right now I feel frustrated cuz I got another one of those “too far away” emails, and now I got myself stuck:

    Him: Just wanted to say… that, although I live too far away to date you, I’m not too far away to compliment you on a terrific profile. Nicely presented, pretty pix, light-hearted… what’s not to like? Anyway, seeing your profile made mine a little bit nicer of a day. D

    Me: Hi D. Thanks for the compliments. I feel glad that seeing my profile gave you a nicer day. I feel weird and slightly annoyed reading “I live too far away to date you.” Cheers … Lucy 🙂

    Him: …Wow!. Sorry ’bout that. That LAST thing I was trying to do was slightly annoy you. I assure you my intentions were strictly honorable, Lucy. I just thought you had done a great job and was trying to let you know. Again, I’m sorry for making you feel weird.

    Sigh. He lives in a major city about two hours from me — a city to which I drive every 2 or 3 months, and to which I am very close when I visit my daughter at college (about once a month during the school year).

    And meanwhile, Brenda has a man driving up from Baltimore to see her, and other Sirens have men flying across the country, etc.

    I’m starting to get a complex about this! If he liked my profile so much, what’s the problem????

    First TN man moves six hours closer, but it’s still too far (four hours) to come see me. Then Four Hour Man basically says the same thing. Winker Hottie (what the bloody hell is your problem anyway???) lives less than two hours away, and he hasn’t said anything at all about the distance, but he hasn’t made a move to conquer it either.

    I can understand if a guy isn’t into traveling to date — but then WHY NOT JUST LEAVE ME ALONE??????

    The last I heard from winker hottie, he had asked how my weekend was (a week ago), and I told him I had a couple nice dates. He said he had one good date and one “eh” date. Then he texted me again before I could reply and said, “Someday you will realize you should date [winker hottie] in DE.”

    I responded, “That would feel exciting and fun!”

    No reply. For over a week now. Grrrr.

    During spring break when I was in college, I met a guy in Florida. After I went back to school, he drove 23 hours (each way) to see me again.

    A boyfriend I broke up with in college drove six hours, to the school I transferred to, to try to win me back.

    So what’s up with these guys now??? THEY are the ones contacting ME in the first place!

    It feels like my magnet must be too weak. 🙁

  68.  #68Lucy on August 2, 2010 at 3:38 pm

    Cinnamon — “What do other sirens do to show kindness and generousity without leaning forward?”

    Maybe it’s a “vibe” thing. Every guy I date tells me I am so kind and compassionate — but I’m not actually doing anything — I’m totally leaning back. I also have the experience that guys THINK I’m interested when I’m NOT — they say I’m looking at them with a twinkle in my eye and that they think it means I like them — but I’m certainly not doing it on purpose.

  69.  #69Tina on August 2, 2010 at 3:42 pm

    Oh but I do, ok sexy undies, I just like the plain undies with a bit of lace or some frilly thing thats as far as I go with sexy undies oh and the color, im more of a color girl. full bottoms and nice colors yeah. when I was out walking in the city, I wore no undies 🙂

  70.  #70lm on August 2, 2010 at 3:55 pm

    Lucy –

    I find that guys take the openness of leaning back to be gentleness and acceptance. And I never realised before how important smiling and eye contact are to men. in combination they’re like man bait!!

  71.  #71Lucy on August 2, 2010 at 3:56 pm

    I completely do not understand men! Now i just got an email from R (the argentinian artist), saying simply, “Are you mad at me?”

    Why on earth does he think I’m mad at him???????

  72.  #72Tina on August 2, 2010 at 4:00 pm

    Lucy, are you mad at him? did he brush you off or something?

  73.  #73Lucy on August 2, 2010 at 4:03 pm

    Tina, no I’m not mad at him at ALL! And he’s done the opposite of brushing me off! I wrote back, “I feel confused. Why would I be mad at you?”

  74.  #74Tina on August 2, 2010 at 4:08 pm

    leaning back and doing nothing? does he take that as you being mad at him? dunno Lucy , why does he think that?

  75.  #75Lucy on August 2, 2010 at 4:08 pm

    Oh my. Well, he had invited me to go see a movie, but I had already seen it, so he went with his brother. He had emailed last night saying that he didn’t like the movie and had walked out halfway through. I hadn’t gotten a chance to respond to that email yet, so he wrote the one today, “Are you mad at me?”

    Me: I feel confused. Why would I be mad at you?

    Him: I thought you liked the movie…. Look. I am sorry. My “Social Skills” are in the drain. I have read books of interest, painted and done Graphic Design since 2005 (my second divorce). I don’t go out much , I prefer to read a good book or watch something on the History Channel. I miss “closeness” but I can live without it. Take care. R

    I feel so confused!

  76.  #76lm on August 2, 2010 at 4:10 pm


    my last guy started to lose it when i leaned back. HE got angry. that felt scary. ugh.

  77.  #77Jennifer on August 2, 2010 at 4:11 pm

    I have a “thing” about leaning back. I do it cause I know it works and has for other sirens. But it feels awkward to me.
    I also wonder if that’s what B meant when he told me I wasn’t comited to the relationship.
    I’m working on it.
    There are guys I would like to contact online…but I’m not cause I am leaning back.

  78.  #78Tina on August 2, 2010 at 4:15 pm

    Lucy, now I feel triggered, I feel angry lol . I think its’ kinda cute that he wanted to take you to a movie that you saw already and enjoyed lol.

  79.  #79Renee on August 2, 2010 at 4:17 pm

    Lucy — I think you’re just going through a down cycle…I hit one this spring after dating a guy I really liked for a month (I let my other options go by the wayside and they weren’t there when I came back on the scene). Anyway, you’re obviously doing something right if men write you just to compliment you on your profile, but I totally get the annoyance you feel about a guy who writes just to tell you that you’re great but live too far away — well, then don’t write me, buster!

    I had a guy who lives ONE hour away write me to say that the other day…I wasn’t offended and I didn’t feel rejected because I have recently had men driving up to 6 hours to come meet me, but I was really annoyed that he contacted me in the first place. I’m not on Match to make friends — I’m there to meet people to date!

    If you keep leaning back, unzipping your heart and work on making your life more full and exciting, you will inevitably draw some more great men to you, and some of these WILL be willing to drive or do whatever it takes to meet you/date you — just wait and see!

  80.  #80Lucy on August 2, 2010 at 4:17 pm

    Tina, whaaattt?? Lol. You’re mad at me?? Now I’m totally and completely confused!!!

  81.  #81Lucy on August 2, 2010 at 4:19 pm

    When he had asked me to go to it, I told him I had already seen it but would feel good about seeing another movie with him….

  82.  #82Lucy on August 2, 2010 at 4:21 pm

    He actually is quite adorable — he’s the one I mentioned before, has a Spanish accent and is so sensual and sensuous that when he’s close to me (we only had one date so far! lol) it’s like i can hear seductive spanish music playing in the background.

  83.  #83Lucy on August 2, 2010 at 4:32 pm

    Our first date, we met at a local pub. Now, here’s a really cute exchange regarding plans for a second date (after he told me he would go to the other movie with his brother):

    Him: Do you ever drive to the little movie theatre in M? They are showing “The Secret of their eyes”. Its an argentinian movie,,,, I have not seen it yet.

    Me: I have never been to that movie theater, but I know where it is. I lived in M and took graduate classes there many years ago.

    Him: Would you like to go see that movie? I invite, you drive? No strings attached. I’ll keep my distance. Let me know .

    [He either doesn’t have a car, or doesn’t drive for whatever reason, from what I’ve gathered. He walked to the pub.]

    Me: It would feel nice to go to the movie with you – but I feel a little afraid of riding in a car with someone I don’t know that well yet.

    Him: Dear Lucy: I understand. There are a lot of “wakos” out there…. I am not sure how to make you feel safe. Would you want to come over. Park your car. MEET my parents (….it sounds soooo
    lame…….sorry) and then see if you want to go see that movie? Call me. I am a bit Bohemian and artsy but not a bad person. I understand, but we are getting “so concerned” that we are not meeting new
    people… Let me know or PLEASE call me….. PLEASE….. R

    [I thought that was so sweet and cute! He is really trying!!!! He is 50, I am 48. He has lived with his elderly parents since his divorce — is taking care of the house for them.]

    Me: Thanks for understanding. Your idea (meeting your parents, etc.) might make me feel safer. I will be busy the rest of today but it would feel good to make plans with you for sometime this week or next.

    Then, after that, he went to the movie with his brother and then emailed me that he didn’t like it, and then thought I was mad at him! Lol.

  84.  #84Tina on August 2, 2010 at 4:35 pm

    Lucy, I feel triggered about his last email to you, I dont know why, just do, frickin eggshells again.

  85.  #85Lucy on August 2, 2010 at 4:37 pm

    Tina, which one?

  86.  #86Lucy on August 2, 2010 at 4:37 pm

    Renee, thanks for the encouragement. 🙂

  87.  #87Lucy on August 2, 2010 at 4:39 pm

    Tina, I feel confused! Were you mad at me for not going with him to the movie I already saw? And now you’re mad at HIM for something? Please explain! Lol.

  88.  #88Tina on August 2, 2010 at 4:39 pm

    Lucy, the one about his lack of social skills, closest and take care bye

  89.  #89Lizzie on August 2, 2010 at 4:40 pm

    OH I dunnno – I feel balance is key. Yes I lean back and I lean forward as well. If there is a guy I think needs to have a message from me on the net – I send one. I have been doing that because I have discovered that the guys don’t necessarily get your profile so the only way they know you are there is you send a note. Family Guy – who I met in April, I had never seen until the very day that I was going to take myself down. He told me he had been there for months! We had never seen each other. I just took myself down off of OKCupid – every single hit I had was from really strange scary men. Over the last 2 nights I have been cruising the site – looked at hundreds of profiles. Then this guy contacted me today, he fit my criteria – he has been online for a month and I never saw his profile! So, I contact men online. I write a cute little flirty message, see if I get a response. When I get a response, I do the lean-back.

    I have done a blended approach with Family Guy – I send a little tickle message. Very short, sometimes just a smile. He responds and then a few days later, he sets up a date. I do a lot of lean back when we meet and I do a lot of appreciation messages – this comes naturally to me. I have been much more reticent about talking about my past and have tended to focus on the present – we talk about our kids because he is really interested. We talk a lot about our travels and great food. I don’t talk much about my work – it intimidates just about everyone and takes me into masculine energy and it is so noticeable to me that I am working on keeping it at bay. He has given me good advice on a few things and I have been quite appreciative of it. And I did lean forward in a major way by asking him to lend me some tools – naturally he had to come to my place – then I gave him a wonderful massage. Now although giving a massage might fit the category of leaning in, we had quite a discussion about how intimate it is and how considerable trust is involved etc. etc.

    So a long story to share that I seem to be blending leaning in with leaning back. I am feeling more and more confident about leaning back and am enjoying how wonderful it does feel. It does seem to me, that if I just sat back, listening and smiling, not saying anything and not doing anything, it would be extremely uncomfortable for both me and my date. I do need to have a shared conversation on the go. My feeling is balance. I hope to be a bit more leaned back – I am going to keep working at it. Although, I am no longer on any dating sites so who knows how I will find other dates….hmmmm…..

  90.  #90Tina on August 2, 2010 at 4:41 pm

    Lucy, Im not mad at you for not going to see a movie you already saw lol. I just thought it was cute that he would want to take you to a movie you already saw and liked.

  91.  #91Lizzie on August 2, 2010 at 4:45 pm

    Jennifer – send notes to the cuties you are interested in on-line. They don’t know you are there. Then lean-back when they respond. Give it a go.

  92.  #92Lucy on August 2, 2010 at 4:49 pm

    Tina, I don’t care about eggshells — if a guy can’t take the heat, he can get out of the kitchen.

    I think R is just frustrated. There is a bit of a language barrier — I feel it, and I’m sure he does, and other women too. He is shy, too, so that is something he has to deal with. He likes me a lot, but I am “leaning back,” so his shyness is even more challenging for him.

    I would like to kiss him again. 🙂

  93.  #93Lucy on August 2, 2010 at 4:52 pm

    Lizzie and Jennifer — The way I handle that is that when I “view” their profile, I know I will show up in their “who viewed me folder” and will be on their radar. If I am especially interested, I “favorite” them — and then they will know that I am interested without me doing any initiating or leaning forward.

  94.  #94Sherry on August 2, 2010 at 4:57 pm

    Jennifer – Just as Lizzie said, I too have contacted guys online. There are so many profiles and it really is hard to see everyone. I pick something they said in their profile and write something flirty to them about it. They have always contacted me back! After the first email, I rarely contact them first again. I think I may have once, but it was to help make plans for a date. My experience has been to make contact – so they see I am there – and then lean back and open my heart and reel them in!
    What do you think?

  95.  #95Tina on August 2, 2010 at 4:59 pm

    Lucy, Im noticing how many times a day, I feel eggshells blah. twice today hm. Id like to feel eggshell free 🙂

  96.  #96Lucy on August 2, 2010 at 5:02 pm

    Tina, sometimes i feel eggshells with my daughter. Blah

  97.  #97Lucy on August 2, 2010 at 5:06 pm

    The thing that bugs the heck outta me about WH is that he flat-out told me, “I get asked out a lot, propositioned, winked at…. but no connection yet.”

    So I *think* maybe he’s not used to asking girls out — they ask HIM! And I *think* maybe he’s thinking that if *I* am not asking him out directly, I’m not really interested. This is, of course, speculation on my part, and could be totally wrong and ultimately DOES NOT MATTER. If he ain’t steppin up, he ain’t steppin up.

  98.  #98Tina on August 2, 2010 at 5:17 pm

    Lucy, true, fck him then! lol, my daughter would probibly say that about me, I am sure ive done th e same to her, i know I have, so has my mom. That is going on my WANTS and NEEDs list. I want to feel eggshell free.

  99.  #99Tina on August 2, 2010 at 5:26 pm

    1. I want to feel eggshell free

    I notice my anger comes up when I dont want to feel this way (eggshells)

  100.  #100Renee on August 2, 2010 at 5:37 pm

    Talk about a feminine energy man — I was contacted on eH by a guy who’s a little younger than me, but cute. We go back and forth throughout all the q & a and then we get to the open communcation process…he writes that he’s glad to get to that point but that a phone call would make it easier to get to know me. I responded by agreeing and giving him my phone number…his response was to give me HIS phone number and tell me he’d be free tonight if I wanted to call him — yah, right! He’s got my darn number and he can use it if he wants! I guess I could do the feeling message thing and tell him it would feel better if he called me, that I’m just kind of old-fashioned that way, blah, blah, blah…but it just seems as if he were going to really step up, he’s jump at the chance to call me instead of asking that I can him…what do you think?

  101.  #101Tina on August 2, 2010 at 5:46 pm

    Renee, I would start to feel tired and bored, I mean how many times do WE have to use feelings messages? I feel triggered, I wouldnt call or he did say call him, is that an instruction? I feel confused , if a man says to call him isnt that an instruction?

  102.  #102Lucy on August 2, 2010 at 5:48 pm

    I still feel angry whenever I think about Siena’s CD guy.

  103.  #103Tina on August 2, 2010 at 5:57 pm

    Renee, tell him you dont feel like it 🙂

  104.  #104lm on August 2, 2010 at 6:02 pm

    yeah, it is an instruction…but if it feels weird, don’t do it. a guy gave me his number at a wedding last week and i said ‘i feel a little weird about calling men. i’m sort of old fashioned.’ he IMMEDIATELY started to smile and said ‘well, give me yours and i’ll call you.’

    i felt really strong and happy to be taking care of myself with boundaries!!!

  105.  #105Tina on August 2, 2010 at 6:15 pm

    If I had given him my number first then he gives me his number, I still wouldnt call, I would wait for him to call then I give him the speech about , how I feel about calling men, does that make sense?

  106.  #106Tina on August 2, 2010 at 6:19 pm

    thats if he asked for my number first. There will be no number exchanging unless he asks for it 🙂

  107.  #107lm on August 2, 2010 at 6:19 pm

    i wouldn’t call either. then i’d mention that i am not comfortable calling me.

  108.  #108Tina on August 2, 2010 at 6:24 pm

    Hey, I dont feel comfortable calling me either lol funny

  109.  #109Jennifer on August 2, 2010 at 6:44 pm

    I feel sinking in my stomach.
    I feel annoyed.
    I feel angry.
    I feel punchy.
    I feel hopeful that my apartment will be done soon.
    I feel grrrrrrrrr.
    I feel sinking in my chest.
    WHY do all the guys who contact me look wierd to me?
    Statistically speaking….they can’t ALL be wierd looking!
    There’s my thinking brain again.
    I feel pouty.
    Where are the hot guys?
    I think they’re in Ottawa.
    I might move…is that odd?
    Wierd? Wrong?
    The demographics of my area are not in my favor.
    There are more women than men….the majority of the men are uneducated and low income.
    I feel pouty.
    I want high end men.
    I have a professional job, i want a man who has one too.
    I’m a job snob.

  110.  #110Lizzie on August 2, 2010 at 6:58 pm

    Jennifer – have you checked out Kingston? I did have awesome hits from people in Ottawa – lots of really smart IT and BioTech people in the west end.

  111.  #111Lizzie on August 2, 2010 at 7:02 pm

    I signed off and cancelled myself from everything :
    Plenty of fish
    OK cupid – owned by e-Harmony
    single parents.com
    Lava life
    golf dates

    over! oh what a relief. I was beginning to just hate everyone….gag me with a spoon. If I see one more: I like to walk on the beach…sh!t, if all the people on POF were actually walking on the beach, there would be a million singles out on the boardwalk!!!

  112.  #112Lizzie on August 2, 2010 at 7:03 pm

    oops I swore – my last message disappeared….

  113.  #113Renee on August 2, 2010 at 7:09 pm

    Yah — I’m definitely not calling him, I’m just debating whether to actually take the time to give him a feeling message about why I’m not calling him or just letting it go and seeing if he eventually calls me on his own. I can’t remember when a guy had my number and instead gave me his and asked me to call him…

    Tina — I am feeling triggered and annoyed with him right now, so even if he did call right now, I wouldn’t be in a good frame of mind to talk to him, but at least it would show he has the capability of stepping up!

    I think part of it is that he’s younger too — it seems like men who are younger are more used to women chasing them, so they kind of expect it…well, not this woman! He can either get it together or get closed out within a few days…that’s all there is to it.

  114.  #114Lizzie on August 2, 2010 at 7:26 pm

    Tina and Renee – I am with you on this – I had a lovely CD date with a musician about a week ago – it was lovely – we both had a terrific time. Although I know there would be no long term here, it would have been nice to have a few more dates. Upon us leaving each other – we both said, call me. I thought nope, I did all kinds of leaning back practice, and loved it. I am not going to call him. And, I haven’t heard a word. Next!

  115.  #115Renee on August 2, 2010 at 7:38 pm

    Lizzie — Good for you! That guy can’t step up, he doesn’t deserve any more of your company!

    Jennifer — you’re right, statistically, they can’t all be weird looking, lol. So maybe you’re just going through a particularly picky phase right now…I’ve done that too where not a single guy who writes me is intriguing at all…but try to keep an open mind, even about the job thing (I need to take my own advice — I’m a bit of a job snob too). Right now, I’m communicating with a guy who’s a district manager for a discount retail store — retail? Really? I am so above dating a retail guy, but he is at least a district manager, so he obviously has SOME ambition, and besides, he’s cute and seems sweet, so I’m going to go out with him with an open mind and just see how it goes.

    Maybe one of these guys has a lesson to teach you — do any of their profiles resonate with you, despite the attraction factor? If so, maybe they’d be worth going on one date with anyway…I just feel bad that you’re so down on the whole internet dating thing right now….I guess it’s truly not for everyone, but I’ve always felt that if people approached it with an open mind, they might be surprised…kind of like dance clubs…you just KNOW you’re not going to meet a quality man at a dance club, right? But that’s where my sister met her husband and he’s a really good man…she had to wade through a lot of frogs before she found her prince though.

    I hope things improve for you soon!

  116.  #116Tina on August 2, 2010 at 8:37 pm

    Ok, damnit, I called mr. eggshells as instructed, i feel so angry i cant type. He asked me how I was or somethng along those lines and I started to talk about my eggshell walking revelation, he kept cutting me off and started talking about how healed he was. I ended up calling him a rude pig.

  117.  #117Tina on August 2, 2010 at 8:50 pm

    He says that his mom always let him have his way, Im not his effin mom. he also says that his mom sexually molested him, he tells everyone so im not breaking any rules here. She would grab his genitals when he walked by or something like that, i dunno…

  118.  #118Tina on August 2, 2010 at 9:04 pm

    He says that I have poor coping skills because I noticed that I feel walking on eggshells. I said that Ive noticed that this is how ive been all my life.

  119.  #119Tina on August 2, 2010 at 9:30 pm

    ok so I have poor coping skills , what does that mean, why did I feel so upset and angry. do abuse victims develope good coping skills? im not a effin victim

  120.  #120lm on August 2, 2010 at 9:35 pm

    no, you have feelings that tell you when something is wrong!

  121.  #121Daria on August 2, 2010 at 10:09 pm

    ok dramatic lovely beautiful i had last nite both my ex – current in rotation still the infamous getright man – and his friend the one i like and am also now talking to .

    it felt awkward at first. getright man was very upset earlier that i talk to his friend. i feel deliciously evil and slutty

    so we were all spending time, i wanted to get close to getright man and talk to him and also get to know new man, i did

    we were all very drunk, i remember feeling close to getright man at a point, i noticed that the friend kept coming close to me wanting to talk to me, unlike getright man, then he started to do it too

    i feel closer to him than i have been yay

    both of them

    i guess they did talk about everything, getright man knew that i asked his friend to eat my pussy haha , he said can i eat it, i said yeah – i dont remember much cuz i was sleeping

    nothing sexual happened i was on my period.

    i feel excited and surprised because getright man was not into eating pussy and now here he is asking me can he eat it, um yeah, all these years i wanted u too, last time we had sex about a month and a half ago, he did slightly kiss it , wow yeah

    so this is great im getting everything i wanted, and it wasnt even drama or anything

    i noticed i dont get the feel bad feeling inside around getright man when theres other men around that are paying me attention – that feels good

    voting for me and “being Freya the Goddess” really helps me be into me, high self esteem yeah thats me

    what is it like to be in the room with two guys you like Daria, says getright man, i said i feel awkward

    later i said i like both of them, i feel amused and super powerful about the night

  122.  #122Daria on August 2, 2010 at 10:12 pm

    i feel in a space of being loved! i feel good!

    Getright man was appreciative that i stood by him outside while the police harassed him for 45 minutes when we were walking back from the store

    he actually noticed…

    i remember saying to him i miss being close, were we ever close, he said yeah, he was wanting and soaking any kind words from me, then he sometimes did get dismissive like i dont want a slut that likes two guys,

    i did actually get to talk to him, tell him i didnt feel treated well before i even talked to his friend, and i just feel unheard and like i cant hear him either, i felt heard a lil bit this time

  123.  #123Daria on August 2, 2010 at 10:16 pm

    i went on a date earlier with anohter man, i feel kinda weird about him, but i felt good

    he kept trying to get me to qualify myself to him, i get a message that my self esteem is high now,

    he said ok you say you are a prize and what do i get basically if i give u my dating effort … i said me, he said what is that

    i said can you SEE me who i am,

    i am not a prize i am gift,

    ok but what do you give

    i said im beautiful, i laugh

    ima woman, all women are gifts, you get me

    i felt comfortable with this, i dont need to give more

    i want a man who wants ME

    after we moved on from the convo i could tell that it sunk in or something, even tho he didnt get it logically i think he got it, like i could tell he was attracted to me and my confidence

    i am very confident

    every man in the world wants me

    they stare at me everywhere

    i love it

    it feels good

    the guy from a few days ago who came to see me on the bus, i wound up givng him a ride home and spending time with him, i relaly like him he likes me, hes keeping in contact with me everyday

  124.  #124Daria on August 2, 2010 at 10:17 pm

    I feel embarassed to feel judged about my talking about eating pussy and liking friends, i sound like a rapper wild lifestyle not like a “nice sensible woman”

    i love my feelings

    i am a rapper

    i am wild

    i love myself

    i love myself

    i love getting my pussy ate dammit

    i love my embarassment

    when men compliment me at first i blush, i feel shy, i feel embarassed, i feel afraid, i feel good

    i love my feelings

  125.  #125Daria on August 2, 2010 at 10:20 pm

    i feel pleased and whole to get my period, i lvoe my blood

    I really feel this part of the post, it boosted me, this is the attitude i had to discuss iwth my date yesterday, he didnt understand how feelings would build with no exclusivity,
    and isnt it selfish of me to kiss him and then go out with someone else,

    i am looking for marriage, not for exclusivity, i am for me i vote for me

    1. I’m going through a tough time.

    2. I’m dating many men, and hanging back and observing which one can make me the happiest.

    3. This tough time is an opportunity for you to show me how good you can be at making me happy.

  126.  #126Daria on August 2, 2010 at 10:25 pm

    is it inappropriate to talk about eating pussy? is it triggering?

    is mysteriously not talking about sex whatsup?

    i dono i feel shy talking about sex in person with a man, sometimes

    i want to feel free and pleased and expand my comfort zone communicating about sex

    i like when men say stuff to me during sex and foreplay it turns me on mucho

  127.  #127Daria on August 2, 2010 at 10:26 pm

    i am loved, i feel read and judged, i feel the vibe in the air, i love the feeling of fear i have and weirdness i love me

    i am loved

  128.  #128Tina on August 2, 2010 at 10:56 pm

    ok so i have poor coping skills, I just spent the last hour talking to eggshell man. I feel annoyed , I laughed because he says I would be so cruel to laugh at children with handicaps, this is so not true and really wrong. He said he lost 31 lbs and I said oh ok, he asked if I noticed I said no, he got mad at me and said im cruel and that i laugh at mentally handicapped children wtf! he talked about his weight issue a bit.

  129.  #129Tina on August 2, 2010 at 11:02 pm

    THis is all so crazy, why are we having this convo? I feel bad that he said i would do that. I want to heal handicapped children, i want to be mother theresa and heal all illness

  130.  #130Daria on August 2, 2010 at 11:23 pm

    i feel crying watching Beyonce sing at last

    at laaaastttt i have you…i feel sad who is it that i dont have that i my mind focused on guywhohadababy i feel sad

    i feel sad someone told me the plot of the movie cadillac records some great singer girl gets dumped for beyonce cuz shes prettier oh that feels bad i feel bad

    i want to be a strong woman i dont want to be used i love my feelings i love my defense i love that i love me

  131.  #131Tina on August 2, 2010 at 11:36 pm

    Daria, I just got my period too. My heart feels stuck, it wont open lol.

  132.  #132Daria on August 2, 2010 at 11:41 pm

    Tina – yay for period… my heart can be open, remember to open my heart, that means i can love everyone i feel afraid of them, i forget to open my heart sometimes im “too cool” then remember oh yeah these people don’t look perfect, but open heart, safety, i feel afraid to be betrayed, being vulnerable like this, it’s ok it’s safer, even though my zune mp3 player got stolen that nite, it’s still safer i love me i love my open heart

  133.  #133Tina on August 2, 2010 at 11:41 pm

    I dunno, I think I have excellent coping skills ef him, I dont care waht he thinks. I love my feelings of walking on eggshells.

  134.  #134Tina on August 2, 2010 at 11:46 pm

    I was too busy walking on eggshells to notice how my body feels about my period, but no signs, no breast soreness, nothing. this is weird but i noticed that when I ate different foods my poops float lol. I did a search online about floating poops and from what i understand floating poops is ok, what you think? dAria

  135.  #135Tina on August 2, 2010 at 11:51 pm

    also I got my eyebrows done and i noticed she waxed one eyebrow to thin, and I was feeling bad later about not giving her a tip, i felt bad about not leaving a tip then I noticed a day later, that she made one eyebrow thinner looking grrrrrrr. I dont feel bad anymore.

  136.  #136Daria on August 3, 2010 at 12:16 am

    Tina – i think floating poops are ok. i love my poop. thats right. i love my poops.

  137.  #137Judie on August 3, 2010 at 8:43 am

    MY guy and I have been a bit distant emotionally for a week or more.. no sex and little connection. I mentioned how I felt about that and we managed to have an amazing day yesterday.. were in the surf and came back to the hotel and were so close on the balcony holding and kissing. Then we came into the room to hopefully get into bed for some lovin’ when he recognized he had a message on is phone. It was his exwife. He immediately called her.. nothing important.. talked a while and then said ‘where were we’ I told him ‘it’s gone’ nothing like a call to the ex to kill the libido. I know I hurt him and want to explain better how I felt and what I expect but he’s so sensitive to being the ‘bad guy’ and feeling wrong. He didn’t respond other than to nod and say he understood which means he buried his feelings… something he is prone to do.
    how do I now, the next day bring it up in such a way as to have heart to heart communication which will bring us deeper and closer rather than cause him to stiffen up and pull back?

  138.  #138Renee on August 3, 2010 at 9:09 am

    Judy — How did his ex calling make you feel? Jealous? Ignored? Be honest with yourself and with him and give him a feeling message that doesn’t blame him — he couldn’t, after all, help the fact that she called could he?

  139.  #139Renee on August 3, 2010 at 9:09 am

    Judie — sorry for misspelling your name.

  140.  #140Brenda on August 3, 2010 at 10:32 am

    Here’s my latest on Bill…

    He sat at my desk over a half hour this morning and we talked about non-work-related things. It felt really good.

    I crossed paths with him at the printer, and then I was going for lunch at my usual time, which is anywhere between 11 and 12. He usually goes anywhere between 1 and 2. So I wasn’t trying to cross paths with him, but he was just leaving for lunch with two other coworkers.

    I felt socially awkward, and I walked ahead of them. Bill crossed paths with me inside the cafeteria where you order at different lines and he said hi. In a moment of nervousness and habit, I asked, “May I sit with you guys?”

    He said, “Yeah, I don’t know where they’re sitting, tho.”

    I felt stupid and weird, and I just looked around the cafeteria, which is huge, and I didn’t see them. Finally I sat down front and center, where I was visible. After a few minutes, Bill came over for me and showed me where they were sitting. I said, “I didn’t mean to invite myself.”

    He said, “No biggie, it’s not private.”

    There were 7 of us total, and Bill and I were at opposite ends of the table. Hardly anyone talked to me, other than introductions to two I didn’t know when I sat down. I felt like a 5th wheel.

    I walked back to our building with Bill and another man, still feeling like a 5th wheel. I wordlessly went to my desk.

    For future reference, how could I have handled that situation better?

  141.  #141Brenda on August 3, 2010 at 10:37 am

    Cinnamon, RE: #64 – You said, “What do other sirens do to show kindness and generousity without leaning forward?”

    One thing I did with Bill this morning is to share something I did that was kind and generous to another woman. It came up in conversation, so I wasn’t trying to blow my horn.

    I’m not sure how to be kind and generous to HIM without leaning forward. I guess just soft-spoken and show compassion to things he is going thru that are hard or painful.

  142.  #142Brenda on August 3, 2010 at 10:42 am


    Welcome back! You quoted 2 hr guy in #67, “Him: …Wow!. Sorry ’bout that. That LAST thing I was trying to do was slightly annoy you. I assure you my intentions were strictly honorable, Lucy. I just thought you had done a great job and was trying to let you know. Again, I’m sorry for making you feel weird.”

    Did you respond? I think that’s lame, too, when they don’t try harder than that. Two hours is no big deal, and that’s the distance between Baltimore and where I live. He really likes me! 🙂

  143.  #143Buttery on August 3, 2010 at 10:44 am

    I am very familiar with feeling socially awkward.
    I found sometimes that just being comfortable with who I am, accepting of that awkward part of me, accepting that I will probably be quiet in certain social situations…… if I’m ok with it, than I feel more calm.

    Accept the silences and still feel comfortable and warm and receptive.
    I accept and embrace my awkwardness…lol.

  144.  #144Buttery on August 3, 2010 at 10:47 am

    I’m wondering…… does lean-back equal “low-maintenance”?

    So, I’ve never been a high-maintenance type of girl, but the phrase “low-maintenance” just triggers me.

    My boyfriend actually said this…he’s been working a lot lately, busy with opening a restaurant.
    When I saw him on the weekend, he told me of this exchange between him and his boss:

    Boss: “your girlfriend must be pissed off that you’ve been spending so much time at work”
    his reply “I’ve got a really low-maintenance girlfriend”

    grrrr…I was triggered when he told me that, and I just froze. I didn’t know what to say. I knew I felt sad that he thinks that of me, or maybe annoyed and angry, but I didn’t tell him in the moment. I just froze and clammed up. Why is it that when I need to use feeling messages the most, they don’t come?

    I wonder if leaning back in a relationship actually sets his expectations lower.

    i feel confused
    i feel unappreciated
    i feel taken for granted
    i want to retreat and give up

  145.  #145Brenda on August 3, 2010 at 11:06 am


    NO! Leaning back does NOT equal low maintenance. Not at all! I am sure Daria could explain it better than me.

    I am still getting these relational concepts securely stored inside, but my perception is that if we are working Rori’s tools properly, we could appear high maintenance to a man who wants to treat a woman poorly.

    If he doesn’t treat us right, we give boundary-setting feeling messages, walk out, or hang up.

    In my awkward situation, what would you have done when you crossed his path yet again while going thru the lines at the cafeteria?

  146.  #146Brenda on August 3, 2010 at 11:07 am


    Did you give him feeling messages later about his statement? If so, what was the conversation?

  147.  #147dorothea on August 3, 2010 at 11:08 am

    Brenda, in the future, don’t lean forward and ask to sit with him. this is how to handle it differently:D Anyway, this was a great experiment to see how you would feel if you leaned forward, and it felt yucky to you. You can remember this now. I think it’s awesome how you sat in the middle of the cafeteria when you couldn’t find them and took your energy back. then he found YOU. Yay, he leaned forward.

    you loooove to lean forward, girl. i know it’s hard to give up control of outcomes of situations, but how would it have felt to have not asked to sit with them? To sit alone with your siren self doing something sireny, like enjoying every bite of your food and your break, or reading a wonderful book or magazine, or writing in a journal?

    How would it have felt to be unapologetic about asking to sit with him. Not second guessing his saying yes to your request? Not second guessing your desirability in a group?

    GIRL YOU A SIREN! A GODDESS! hehe i feel frustrated and protective of you.

  148.  #148Brenda on August 3, 2010 at 11:09 am

    In any case, I know everything is cool and Bill is just ignoring the situation. He just IMed me about our work project, and then he got really silly, using emoticons to say stuff. We were going back and forth a few rounds and it was fun and funny! I feel at ease again!

    I reread what you said, Buttery, and I guess you are saying just be silent. I think you are right.

  149.  #149dorothea on August 3, 2010 at 11:13 am

    Imagine this. You cross paths with him at the lunch line again. You smile and lean back. He says “whatsup.” You tell him how good it feels to be able to take a few minutes away from the job. Or you tell him how the noisiness of the cafeteria makes you feel. Or you tell him how you feel about the food choices. You detach from outcome. Of course you want to sit with him, you have a crush on him! But you detach from outcome anyway.

    If you lean back now as a rule and really stick to it, you’ll find yourself being able to “rockstar” it later, and be able to say “hey bill i want to sit with you, where are you sitting?” You’re just not there…YET. But it’s totally possible:)

  150.  #150Brenda on August 3, 2010 at 11:15 am


    Thanks! I didn’t mean to lean forward. It just came out. It was one of those moments where I saw him more often than not all morning. So I felt a need to fill that awkward silence, and that’s what came out. I instantly regretted it. So yeah, Buttery was right to just embrace my awkwardness and feel secure within myself. I just feel good that everything is still cool between us.

    I am making progress. It is just habit after, I admit sheepishly, being controlling for so many years. It’s like that poem says, “Children live what they learn”. I was raised with very controlling parents. Blah! I don’t wanna be like that at all. And I am growing fast.

    You know, at first, even asking, “What do you think?” felt scary! Because it’s an open-ended question with an uncontrollable answer!! But I got past that.

    I’ve been alone so many years and survived so many years that I have also learned to be very assertive to do that stuff. But I am enjoying learning my feminine energy and letting a man take care of me more and more. It feels awkward at times, too, but it feels good. It’s what I’ve longed for for years.

  151.  #151Brenda on August 3, 2010 at 11:17 am


    I like your feeling message suggestions. That’s right, “stay in my girl”, as Rori words it!

  152.  #152Brenda on August 3, 2010 at 11:21 am

    Oh, Buttery, here’s another thought. Christian Carter said a man is all about his mission, his job…He respects us when we give him time and space to do what he needs to do. Then when he comes to us, he is relaxed. If a man is working at a new restaurant, I think it’s understandable that he’s unusually busy.

    Just gotta take it day by day and event by event, I guess. That low maintenance comment would bug me, too.

    I would say something like this:

    “I felt really horrible when you told your boss I am low maintenance, because I want to be treated first class. It would feel so good to be with a man who desired to be with me and make me happy as much as possible. What do you think?”

  153.  #153dorothea on August 3, 2010 at 11:28 am

    Brenda, you are definitely making progress and i feel great about it!

    Buttery, here is my take on something to say…it’s a speech, rori style.

    “ohhh, honey, i honestly felt so thrown off hearing that i’m low maintenace. Respecting your work and time feels important to me, yet it feels good to know that time with me is important too. what do you think?”

  154.  #154Brenda on August 3, 2010 at 11:40 am


    I like that feeling message, too. Thanks for the encouragement!

    I’m still struggling with my Ryan addiction tho. Having a hard time not texting him.

  155.  #155dorothea on August 3, 2010 at 11:47 am


    spam us here:)

  156.  #156Renee on August 3, 2010 at 12:24 pm

    Dorothea — I really like your feeling message to Buttery — I don’t think I could have come up with that on my own, lol.

    Brenda — you were definitely leaning forward, but don’t beat yourself up for it — it happens on occasion. At least you know what it is now and know to try to avoid it, you know?

    So this guy that I was introduced to on eHarmony asked me out for tonight (which I couldn’t make) and then for tomorrow (which I wasn’t sure I wanted to do either cause that’s the day the newspaper story is coming out and I figure I might be in a funk that day) so I mentioned this weekend instead and he said he wasn’t sure, that he might be tied up this weekend and asked if he could let me know for sure on Thursday…I said, “Sure — we’ll just see how it plays out. You can touch base with me once you know for sure and we’ll see where things are. I would ask you about your possible weekend plans, but I don’t want to pry.”

    Was I leaning forward with that last remark? I mean, the guy has every right to spend the wknd with a woman if he wants to (since we haven’t even met) but I think he’s purposely being secretive about his wknd plans just because I didn’t tell him why tomorrow night wouldn’t work — I just said, “How about Friday instead?”.

    But if he is spending the whole weekend with some woman, I don’t think I really want to go out with him right now…I mean, that’s a lot of time to invest in someone if you’re not fairly into them, and if he’s that into another woman, how can he be that into me?

    Now the thing is, my (work) plans for this evening just got cancelled, so I could meet him this evening after all, but he mentioned meeting him about 1/3 of the way to where he lives and I’d really rather he come here, you know? What do you think?

    By the way — men are coming out of the woodwork this week! I’ve got like 3 new guys that are txting me, on top of the 3 guys I was already talking to — my fingers are getting sore, lol.

  157.  #157Renee on August 3, 2010 at 12:25 pm

    Btw — his response to the remark I posted was, “I’ll be in touch soon!”….obviously being evasive on purpose…

  158.  #158dorothea on August 3, 2010 at 12:58 pm

    i don’t think saying you’ll be in touch soon is being purposely evasive…but i definitely agree that it can FEEL evasive.

  159.  #159tinque on August 3, 2010 at 1:49 pm

    Buttery – I wouldn’t suggest you put too much into that comment. Men often have a what seems to us a poor way of saying things. Though the word choice is not so great, it seems to me he was paying you a compliment, meaning that you are not on his case all the time, fussing, whining, nagging him, asking why he’s not spending more time with you. You are being respectful of his time at this time, and he’s appreciating this in you.
    I would let this go. If he ever says it again, then tell him that those words feel bad to you, have negative connotations.

  160.  #160Brenda on August 3, 2010 at 2:02 pm

    Tinque, good point! 🙂

  161.  #161Lucy on August 3, 2010 at 3:09 pm

    Interesting and enlightening discussion! Thank you for this, Brenda: “if we are working Rori’s tools properly, we could appear high maintenance to a man who wants to treat a woman poorly.”

    A few years into my marriage, my h and I went for marriage counseling. The counselors were trying to explain to my h that my needs were not being met. So they asked him if he also had needs that weren’t being met. He said, “No, I don’t need anything from her. I’m very low-maintenance. I just want her to leave me alone.”

    THAT felt horrible to hear! But as they continued to explain to him that *I* had needs that were not being met within the marriage and that I needed things from him, he said, “So, you’re trying to say that she’s high maintenance?”

    THAT also felt horrible to hear!!! It made me feel like I was “difficult” (which, of course, my mom always told me I was, growing up).

    So, Brenda, to read your words — “we could appear high maintenance to a man who wants to treat a woman poorly” — after all these years! — feels really good and comforting…..

    Funny thing, too, I just remembered that at that time, the counselors gave him a sticky note with three things on it that he needed to work on. He had it above his desk for a long time, but never did what it said. I don’t remember the third one, but the first two were:

    Be attentive

    Interestingly enough, I realize now that they were telling him to use masculine energy!!!

  162.  #162dorothea on August 3, 2010 at 3:11 pm

    tinque is sometimes the resident advocate of “letting it go.” this feels like such awesome balance.

    btw, tinque, i did end up talking to my LI about feeling suspicious about him and other women, but it was a couple of days later and the subject of intuition and paranoia came up regarding thinking bugs are crawling and biting you, haha. It was a very productive and healthy conversation, and i handled it with feeling messages and authentic honesty and openness, so i feel like it increased his attraction for me. I am sooo grateful that you gave me your opinion to leave the issue alone, because I would have called him up as soon as i got the bad feeling and let him have it!

    thanks tinque!

  163.  #163tinque on August 3, 2010 at 3:18 pm

    You are so welcome dorothea. Sometimes we can get so caught up in expressing every little thing that doesn’t sit well without thinking about it, as in this man is not perfect, can and will say things that seem so awful, but they mean nothing. If it’s an isolated incident, leave it alone. If it recurs, then you speak up.
    Unless it’s an obvious attempt to be hurtful, and you will know the difference.
    In your case, your old stuff was coming up to bite you in the butt, so I’m so glad you restrained yourself until you got your perspective back.
    In my opinion, when in doubt, sit back and breathe; go inside to check in with yourself. Are these your gremlins talking? Often they are.

  164.  #164Lucy on August 3, 2010 at 3:20 pm

    Brenda, yes, I responded to two hour guy:

    Me: I didn’t mean to make you feel bad or even apologetic. I genuinely appreciated the compliments. It’s just that when men tell me I’m too far away, I feel like a princess locked in a tower on some remote mountain and princes are sending me messages by carrier pigeon, saying, “You’re a lovely, interesting princess, but not worth slaying any dragons for.” Now I feel afraid that you’ll think even worse of me. But I’m just expressing my feelings. Not blaming you.

    Him: Lucy, I didn’t think worse of you to begin with. I liked what I read, I thought your pix were very pretty, great smile and I liked the “overall” initial impression. So, unless you’re about to confess that you kill puppies and kittens for fun, so to speak, I doubt you could make me think less of you. 🙂 D

    It was kinda weird that I was afraid he would think badly of me. But that’s really how I felt at that moment for some reason! Probably because I realized that his email had triggered me about ALL the emails I get like that — not just his — and also about TN man and WH and other guys who literally are not going the distance — and so maybe I was too hard on him.

    Not sure what to do now — drop it maybe???

  165.  #165Lucy on August 3, 2010 at 3:21 pm

    Tinque, this is SUCH a good and important point! (#162) Thanks!

  166.  #166Lucy on August 3, 2010 at 3:24 pm

    Brenda, I feel so glad that Balto likes you! That’s so cool! What’s your secret to getting guys to travel?????

    I like the advice the other girls gave you about the situation with Bill at work. 🙂

  167.  #167Lucy on August 3, 2010 at 3:27 pm

    I have too many requests for dates for this weekend. Too bad I’m not excited about any of the men. 🙁

  168.  #168Brenda on August 3, 2010 at 3:28 pm

    Lucy, #160 – I’m glad that meant something to you. I’m learning, I’m learning! 🙂

  169.  #169Lucy on August 3, 2010 at 3:36 pm

    Oh. sigh. Just got this email from a guy I’ve been emailing back and forth with for a few days:

    “so what’s on your mind? Where do we go from here? Are you interested in others? Do I have competition? :-)”

    This all feels so much like schoolwork. Can I pay one of you to do my homework assignments for me???

  170.  #170Brenda on August 3, 2010 at 3:36 pm

    Lucy, I really like your feeling message to 2 hr guy. The fact that he STILL didn’t offer to slay any dragons (what a fool!!!) tells me just drop it.

    What a sireny statement here:

    “I have too many requests for dates for this weekend. Too bad I’m not excited about any of the men.”

    So many men! But alas, none of them are good enuff for this princess! LOL! You go, girl!! 😛

  171.  #171Lucy on August 3, 2010 at 3:42 pm

    Thanks for the encouragement, Brenda. Yeah, two hour guy must be the court jester. 🙂

  172.  #172Brenda on August 3, 2010 at 3:44 pm


    The poor guy doesn’t have a wonderful relationship coach to guide him how to be more princelike to women! So give him a break!

    Here, I’ll do your homework for you:

    It would feel so good to meet you! What do you think?

    And just ignore his comment about competition. Altho I liked Daria’s comment:

    “I’m dating many men, and hanging back and observing which one can make me the happiest.”

    But it’s really none of his business at this stage.

    Then again, you could make something fun out of it, like this:

    “I am Rapunzel in my castle, awaiting a valiant knight to rescue me! I haven’t decided yet which knight deserves for me to let down my hair! But it would feel great to at least feast my eyes on you from my lonely little castle! What do you think?”

  173.  #173Lucy on August 3, 2010 at 4:12 pm

    Thanks for the homework help, Brenda. But here’s what happened….

    Me: Where do we go from here? I don’t know. What do you think? 🙂

    Him: get to know you, get to kissing and hugging and love making and more 🙂 so any competition? lol love not answering my questions huh

  174.  #174Renee on August 3, 2010 at 4:15 pm

    Brenda, lol, you have such a way with words. I think that’s what I’ll tell men in the future who ask me if I’m dating anyone else, “I am Rapunzel in my castle, awaiting a valiant knight to rescue me! I haven’t decided yet which knight deserves for me to let down my hair!”

    Btw — decided to go out with 3.5 hour guy today after all…my evening work appt rescheduled, so I told him I was up for meeting if he was up for driving to my city (3.5 hours). He did grumble just a little, but when I told him I was busy and wouldn’t be able to meet him 1/3 of the way tonight, he decided to go for it and jumped in his car. It feels exciting to be so spontaneous…the thing is, what I was busy doing was getting my hair and nails done in time for my date later this week w/another guy – ha! Guess it’ll come in handy tonight too.

    The guy from this weekend is traveling 3.5 hours too — don’t know what’s in the water in some of these cities, but it sure does seem like men are crawling out of the woodwork! I like it!

    I feel like I came across Rori at just the right time in my life — I’m really enjoying learning to be a siren:-)

  175.  #175Brenda on August 3, 2010 at 4:16 pm

    Ugh. I feel so turned off by men who want to go straight to physical relationship. Evolve!!

    How are you going to respond?

  176.  #176Brenda on August 3, 2010 at 4:17 pm

    Renee, Good job!

  177.  #177lm on August 3, 2010 at 5:05 pm




  178.  #178Lizzie on August 3, 2010 at 5:37 pm

    I have a friend who says I am “low maintenance” and this is what it means to him – because I asked what high maintenance is.
    Low maintenance to this guy – who always has 3 women on the go:
    – don’t phone every day
    – don’t need to phone every day
    – don’t email constantly – email terrorism
    – don’t constantly ask what he is doing, who he is with, where he is going, if I am asking him to go out on Friday night for example, I don’t begin by asking “what are you doing on Friday night?” and wait for an answer before asking him to go to something with me. He just wants me to ask and be straight.
    – no playing head games
    – no stalking
    – no whining about other people in his life
    – no whining about his profile being on dating sites
    – I am confident
    – I am busy with other things in my life
    – I am positive
    – I am fun

    I am “low maintenance” and that to him means I am a lot of fun to be with and he enjoys his time with me.

    It is a compliment – sounds a bit odd, but definately a compliment.

  179.  #179Ammo on August 3, 2010 at 5:49 pm

    Hi I have an issue Rori anyone would appreciate you assistance. Getting myself out there and dating but how do you deal with the who pays issue? I know we are suppose to recieve from a man and not lean forward etc but when it actually comes time to paying for the date if we have gone somewhere are we suppose to just say nothing and sit back and let them pay dosen’t that seem rude not offering? What do you do at this point so as not seem rude but not be leaning forward or over functioning?

  180.  #180Lucy on August 3, 2010 at 5:51 pm

    I don’t know how I’m going to respond, Brenda.

  181.  #181Lucy on August 3, 2010 at 5:53 pm

    “who always has 3 women on the go”


  182.  #182Lucy on August 3, 2010 at 5:56 pm

    I should do an experiment — see if I can get ANY guy to drive at least two hours to see me. I am so picky. Maybe I should lower my standards and see what happens.

  183.  #183Lucy on August 3, 2010 at 5:58 pm

    With online dating so far, the farthest men have driven for me is one hour.

  184.  #184Lizzie on August 3, 2010 at 6:02 pm

    too funny Lucy – aren’t we sirens supposed to have 3 men on our CD list?

    I am not on his list – I used to be but I took myself off his list. We actually became really terrific friends and now he gives me good advice on how to handle men’s behaviour.

  185.  #185lauren on August 3, 2010 at 6:08 pm

    not certain if this is wr i can leave this type of info but here it is . just made 2 years this july. decided from the start that this is a relationship we are exclusive . have never been 2 hz house, ofcourse askd no real answer but will admit we often fall asleep talking to each other and wake the next morning still on the fone. when there have been times i felt like i wantd more of hz attention have gotten it mostly. but he will go away, vaccations, business and family affairs from time to time. and communication ceased until this last vacation wr he did text some without me iniating so thought we were progressin but he also stayd another week and all while hes communicating didnt mention he decided to stay another week. now we have gone away for wkends and do have plans for more trips together after he askd me 2 stop acting like he wz going any where which relaxed me i got triggered by a comment made saying that hes given up on love (we’re both divorced). n it just spirialed from there. truth iz i feel he wz just talkn crap being fully relaxed with me enuff to express himself n my response sent him the other way. now havent had the tools all along to express myself but thats changeing . however senseing tension since june although my trigger happened in may and had been growing in me since then. now im not sure wr we’re headed. want the ring n the whole nine and at one point i feel like he had intense sensation to crash hz boat n now disconnect. now been using tools for 7 days read ebook 2 wks ago. im going along feeling things falling on my knees sometimes all day long. now 2 day i calld, havent been will ignore it and keep going no return call by the way. but did feel an actual connection during our last conversation n havent felt that in a while. keep telling myself n my head to give up controlling and the convesation just flowed. realizing that i want the man but do feel hes to a degree, inconsequential because it about the relationship i want. i got deep seated abandonment issues n i concentrating there . but would really hate for this to come between us. if we r not meant ok but dont want my bs from chldhood 2b the cause. do u thnk its salvagable?

  186.  #186Lucy on August 3, 2010 at 6:11 pm

    Yeah, I have a great guy friend too. He helped me pick out an outfit to wear to my date with the Sculptor — I had a fashion show for him in my house and he told me what he liked best — fun for both of us!

    Anyway, yeah, we Sirens are supposed to have at least 3 men we’re CDing — but the guys are NOT supposed to be doing the same. I still say ewww to that.

  187.  #187Lizzie on August 3, 2010 at 6:20 pm

    Interesting take on this Lucy – yet if they are on-line dating, would they not be doing exactly the same thing as us sirens?? Wouldn’t they be advised on the guy-dating lists, to see at least 3 lovely ladies in rotation until they decide which one they want?

    Although, I have met a few guys who tell me that they aren’t capable of seeing more than one. They said it is too difficult. And then there the others – the players I believe they are called….hmmmm

  188.  #188Tina on August 3, 2010 at 11:10 pm

    Daria, oh yeah I forgot to say I love my poops 🙂

  189.  #189Tina on August 3, 2010 at 11:11 pm

    My needs and wants hm, thanks lizzie and lucy 🙂 what a difference it made in my communication today with eggshell man.

  190.  #190Tina on August 3, 2010 at 11:12 pm

    and thank you to eggshell man.

  191.  #191Tina on August 3, 2010 at 11:17 pm

    What a shift, I noticed that what I was “doing” was putting my needs ever so slowly and it does kinda creep up on ya so watch out for that. His demeanor changed, maybe he is crazy i dunno but I did notice a shift in “something” I cant quite put my finger on it.

  192.  #192Renee on August 4, 2010 at 4:43 am

    Had a great date last night with CD#3 — may have to re-rank him as CD#1:-).

    He drove 3.5 hours with no air conditioning in his car to meet me and ended up staying in a hotel here. I’m heading over to hang out with him for a little while before he drives back…on second thought, I may have to rename him AK (for awesome kisser!) — man, can he kiss!

    Now my only problem is letting him start getting too important to me while I continue to try to juggle these other men and get to know them…this is always my struggle when I have several men on the line — I pick out one I like the most and let the others fall by the wayside. Going to really try hard this time to date the others and enjoy their company too…

  193.  #193Lizzie on August 4, 2010 at 6:59 am

    Wow! Renee – how did you find these guys? And he drove 3.5 hours to meet you??? You are one hot siren!!

  194.  #194Lizzie on August 4, 2010 at 7:13 am

    I haven’t checked one of my private email accounts in a very long time – eharmony is linked that that account….I have 100 men to check out – going back almost a year. I guess I had better get with it and reject them or I won’t get a new crop. If I start having communications, I might re-think subscribing for a few months. It was a disaster the last time I did it. One of you sirens said you could re-test? how do you go about doing that? Then I can also practice a whole new attitude – diva siren attitude! I want to be like Renee and have too many men to play with….

  195.  #195Brenda on August 4, 2010 at 7:48 am


    RE: #177 – Low Maintenance

    Those are really good relational qualities! Good for you! You don’t “terrorize” him because you are staying on Lizzie’s bridge! Way to go, Siren Lady! 🙂

    Im, yeah, I heard that once, the one-word way to close any argument with a man: “Evolve!!” Eh-eh! I only use it when a man is being particularly ridiculous, because it’s a pretty harsh thing to say. But sometimes it’s what they need to hear, and the truth hurts! 🙂

  196.  #196Brenda on August 4, 2010 at 7:51 am

    Renee, yay for you! I’m happy you had such a wonderful date!

  197.  #197Lizzie on August 4, 2010 at 9:20 am

    Thanks Brenda – staying on Lizzie’s bridge – I love that image….evolve ….I love that idea. brilliant.

    Went to the doc for then old annual on the old bod – she says I am in great shape but alas, I have added a 7 freaking pounds since the last annual (that was 2 years ago) no wonder my waist bands don’t fit – that my friends is 1-inch. I said I want it to come off. Now I actually began this a month ago and feel like I have already taken off 5 lbs. I hate this, I am not good at this, I want to eat pasta….whine whine whine….
    She said all I have to do is take off 200 cal per day – it is just math. What does she know….I have always been a bony scrawny chick, now I am at the top end of “normal” but I feel big – too big – no wiggle room big – I don’t want to be a muffin top! I don’t want pudgy cheeks! I want to be svelt again….I want to eat everything in sight. I don’t know how to do this, I have never done this before….sigh!

  198.  #198dorothea on August 4, 2010 at 9:23 am

    i feel depressed today
    that is all

  199.  #199dorothea on August 4, 2010 at 9:24 am

    it’s lame that i cant call into work depressed.

  200.  #200Lizzie on August 4, 2010 at 9:28 am

    dorothea – lets just eat cake – I am feeling frustrated sad and very low as well. Someone working with me on a project just bailed when we need to deliver something really important tonight and I am stuck with doing all the work; my car tire went flat again for the 3rd time in 5 days and now I took the tire off and will just drop it at the dealer and say “here! see a freaking flat!!!” I will be in total masculine energy and glare at them for saying there is no problem with the tire… and I have a freaking 2000KM road trip on the horizon…and I need to loose 7 pounds….
    so lets you and me just eat cake

  201.  #201dorothea on August 4, 2010 at 9:47 am

    lizzie, thank you so much for the cake offer. i am going to eat carrot sticks and feel proud of myself for making healthy choices. maybe we can share a little piece of cake. yum!

    everything is happening all at once to us. i have like a bazillion projects at work all at the same time. My job is so much more important than i am…so much bigger. i feel the weight of the world on me. I feel unworthy of it all.

    i fell into a funk yesterday after feeling triggered with my LI. It’s not really his fault..just a trigger.

  202.  #202Lizzie on August 4, 2010 at 9:59 am

    alrightie dorothea – consider this – you are in the job because many people believe in you. You are one of the few world experts in your field (so am I actually… and just so you know, all world experts in their fields go through periods of feeling totally inadequate – very bizzarre). Your advice, guidance, thoughts, ideas, processes are important to all your projects.

    On the funny side – I have this gigantic hour glass filled with blue sand (forget that I find it amazing that they can get the sand in the thing, that the hole is just the right size for the sand to go through, and how do they possibly know how many grains of sand to put into the thing…I know it is so wierd what I wonder about….) so when I am feeling stressed and overwhelmed, I sort out all my projects by hours and spend 1-hour at a time making progress. Odd but it seems to work. Then I reward myself with 5 minutes of “recess” meaning cruising the guys on POF or writing a note here.

  203.  #203Rori Raye on August 4, 2010 at 10:15 am

    Ammo, if he asks you, he pays. Period. This is where you start communicating…if you’re uncomfortable with the whole “who pays” thing with a man even on the first date – talk with him!! Tell him you’re always feeling so uncomfortable about this – what does he think? You’ll likely discover that a man feels best when he pays, and if he likes you, that’s what he wants to do. this is all about discovering and speaking the truth, and not holding in your feelings because you’re afraid of what he’ll think. Get it out there!! Love, Rori

  204.  #204Renee on August 4, 2010 at 10:17 am

    Lizzie — both of these guys I met on eHarmony…I would definitely give eH a chance if I were you — there are some cuties on there if you can weed through the rest and I find that I tend to have more in common with the people I’m meeting on eH as opposed to those I meet on Match.

    The guy from last night is definitely a cutie — blue eyes, dimples and a nice smile…he has the tiniest hint of a nerdish quality about him, but he’s a tennis player, so he has that whole “tennis player” look going for him.

    The guy from Saturday is a cutie too, though he has facial hair, which I’m not crazy about, but I guess I’ll go out with him anyway.

    Btw — in an earlier post, I commented on how AK (awesome kisser) from last night had been purposely vague about his possible plans for this weekend and we talked about that this morning…he admitted he was kind of being evasive on purpose, but his big secret weekend is just a golfing weekend w/a buddy, lol. He was curious, though, about the fact that I had been wondering about it…I told him it was on my mind somewhat because while he had the right to date anyone he wanted at this point, I wasn’t sure I wanted to take the time to get to know someone who might already be pretty involved with another woman (as in spending a whole weekend with her) and he understood, so I was glad I brought it up.

  205.  #205dorothea on August 4, 2010 at 10:20 am

    Freaking eharmony wouldn’t sign me up. Said I was uncategorizable. Well, yeah! duh!

  206.  #206Rori Raye on August 4, 2010 at 10:22 am

    lauren, welcome, and you don’t say how often you see each other, what you do together, how much time and affection he gives you….from just this letter – I’d say you’re being “bamboozled.” That, after 2 years, nothing is happening here at all, and that you are perhaps very inexperienced and quite the doormat. Brava for working with the ebook – and seeing some results. Working through abandonment issues is like every other thing we need to heal…you have to get some bravery and start talking about it, and Circular Dating – even if you don’t actually ‘date” anyone until you can feel good about it – you can INTERACT with all kinds of men everywhere – constantly – and that will teach you so much and help you work through this… getting some kind of coach would be very, very helpful to you – tinque is great, Orna is great…there are all kinds of baby coaches here and out there who might be starting out and inexpensive and very helpful to you. Love, Rori

  207.  #207Rori Raye on August 4, 2010 at 10:29 am

    Lizzie, wow. So you gave up? I hear so much anger – can you see that this is what’s stopping you from having what you want? Essentially – if you find you don’t love other people generally just because they’re people – that’s the clue you don’t love yourself. Please get that anger out, write about it, write it down, see if you can get beneath it to the pain and despair…and throw in the joy in everyday, small things I KNOW you do feel. And then get back and use all those sites to offer you interactions with men where you can discover what’s inside you, driving you away from love. As you start to love yourself more, you will attract and be attracted to better quality men – who love themselves, too – and will be able to love you…Love, Rori

  208.  #208Lucy on August 4, 2010 at 11:07 am

    Dorothea, that happened to my daughter, too, with eH. It really upset her and made her feel like they were saying “you’re undateable.” I was shocked that they would do that, and actually wrote them an email, but they said they couldn’t disclose their “secret formula.” That was before I had signed up myself. So I signed up just to see if they would reject me, too. But I have to admit that when I filled out the form, I wasn’t completely honest because I wanted to get “accepted.” Sure enough, they accepted me — but, of course, nobody they match me with suits me, since I wasn’t fully portraying the real me. Catch-22.

  209.  #209Lucy on August 4, 2010 at 11:12 am

    I’m glad you posted that, dorothea. When I logged on to my computer just now, I was planning to post, “I wonder what my pattern is . . . I wonder what’s stopping me from having what I want?

    I think part of the answer to that is that, like you, I am “uncategorizable.” I mean, gosh, if eharmony won’t even accept us, there must not be that many men out there who are a good match for us, right?

  210.  #210dorothea on August 4, 2010 at 11:13 am

    hehe, lucy, i told my grandma about it, and now whenever there’s an eharmony commercial on the tv, she shouts at the tv, “if my little girl isn’t good enough for you, you can just go to bankrupt hell!”

    basically when they can’t set up someone with matches it’s because our personalities test as too diverse or all over the place.

    thank you. i am uncategorizable.

  211.  #211dorothea on August 4, 2010 at 11:19 am

    what it is, lucy, is that I am not only serious and responsible, i am also silly and carefree. i am not only intelligent, i am also into brainless crap. i am not only laid back, i am also uptight. ia m not only forgiving, i can also hold a grudge. i am not only a good girl, i am also a brave anti-establishment revolutionary. I am not only girly, i am also a feminist.

    i am dynamic and wonderful. i’m not sure that i want to date anyone that can fit into a box.

  212.  #212Lucy on August 4, 2010 at 11:28 am

    I have been trying to see what my “pattern” is though. The only two men I have really felt attracted to seem similar on the surface, but are really quite different.

    They are both:
    cute-looking (to me) — similar type “look”
    socially attractive
    Christian but non-judgmental

    TN man is cocky, WH has a normal degree of confidence.
    TN man talked about his success with women; WH talked about his failures with women.
    TN man teased me, challenged me, surprised me constantly; WH did not, but was still entertaining in his own way.
    TN man was exhilerating to me. WH was fun and a little bit exciting, but not nearly as intensely as TN man.

    I guess the rest of the men I meet are lacking in one or more of the areas these two men have in common.

    Any observations anyone?

  213.  #213Lucy on August 4, 2010 at 11:30 am

    Lol, dorothea — your self-description fits me to a T!

  214.  #214Lucy on August 4, 2010 at 11:42 am

    I was iming with a man on pof last night, and while multi-tasking on there, I noticed that I had enough “activity points” to “buy” a theme for my profile. I told the guy this, and told him I was excited, and was like “woohoo!” and everything, and he laughs and says, “Down girl!”

    So, while we were chatting, I was previewing all the themes. Then I told the guy I’ve narrowed it down to either the rose petals or the animal print and I just could not decide. I said, “the animal print looks really cool with my profile but I’m afraid it might drive you guys a little crazy lol. ” He said, “Already there.”

    Then I said, “The rose petals say ‘sweet and innocent,’ and the animal print says ‘come and get me.'”

    Then I said, “I need one that says ‘sweet and innocent, come and get me.'”

    He said, “I like your style… no wonder the twenty somethings are in hot pursuit.”

    (He was around my age.)

  215.  #215Brenda on August 4, 2010 at 11:45 am

    Dorothea and Lucy,

    Shame! Shame! You are unique! What a crime! LOL! (Let’s tell eHarmony to EVOLVE!!)

  216.  #216Brenda on August 4, 2010 at 11:47 am

    P.S. It is a mark of brilliance to be able to hold contradicting thoughts and feelings simultaneously! I love you eclectic Sirens! 🙂

  217.  #217Lucy on August 4, 2010 at 12:18 pm

    Thanks, Brenda. 🙂 It runs in my family (my kids and me). We have all been called enigmatic at one time or another. My daughter’s life quote is, “Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes.”
    Walt Whitman

  218.  #218Brenda on August 4, 2010 at 12:27 pm

    Here are some of my life quotes:

    Insanity keeps me sane.
    Following the paths of least resistance makes rivers crooked.
    I hate when that happens!
    Your life lies before you like a path of newfallen snow,
    So be careful how you tread it for your tracks are sure to show!
    I’ve got to get organized!
    Your life’s a play you can’t rehearse.
    It never helps to worry; it never hurts to pray.
    To err is human, but when the eraser wears out ahead of the pencil, you’re overdoing it!
    Nothing tastes as good as thin feels.
    Nothing can separate me from the Love of God.

  219.  #219Tina on August 4, 2010 at 1:30 pm

    I bought myself a nice bottle of shampoo and conditioner and I got my eyebrow fixed, I tipped the new girl five bucks, while I forgot too and felt bad for not tipping the other girl for fkin up my eyebrow. She gave me her number and said to call her if I needed anything else, she just got back from maternity leave, she’s drumiing up business for herself, I like that.

  220.  #220Tina on August 4, 2010 at 1:33 pm

    I got a message from The Universe, it says , there is no time in paradise, I like that one Brenda.

  221.  #221Tina on August 4, 2010 at 1:36 pm

    She also said the other girl is feeling overworked, she worked non stop that day so yeah. its good for her too. She wont have so many drop ins or clients.

  222.  #222monica on August 4, 2010 at 3:59 pm

    Hi Rori,
    I emailed you a long drawn out email about my situation. After 10 years together and marriage in 2007 and a 9 month old son. Husband wants to call it quits after constant fighting and meeting another woman. He still hasnt filed divorce since his first declaration while I was 5 months preg. He tries to make my life hell. I cant talk with him w/o him taking the opportunity to make me feel small. How do I deal with his hostility? I think I come off fake if I smile or laugh when he calls me stupid and getting angry only makes it worse. We live together but she comes and picks him up once or twice a week. And he leaves me with the car on e. I bought targeting mr. right im waiting for u.p.s man to drop it off today. I cant wait ot get started! My question is how do I deal with his hostility and disrespect? He is paying the bills right now. How do I live with him while I get my finances together and my head together yet keep from getting my self esteem shredded daily?

  223.  #223Renee on August 4, 2010 at 4:33 pm

    Monica — I don’t have any really helpful advice, but I just wanted to say that I feel for you…the only good thing about never having been married at my age is that I’ve never had my finances tied to any one man, so I didn’t have to get myself out of your type of situation.

    Have you tried just walking away when he says abusive things? If he follows you, maybe you could lock yourself in the bathroom, put in some earplugs and take a bath? I don’t know…what do you other sirens think?

  224.  #224Renee on August 4, 2010 at 4:43 pm

    Btw — I spent the morning cuddling in AK’s hotel room with him…we just hung out and chatted and kissed for a couple of hours before he left to go back to his city. I may see him again Sunday…depends on whether his golfing trip works out for this weekend.

    Here’s my latest dilemma…one of the newer guys who’s been texting me is a sales rep for his full time job, but his main hobby is singing country music (you can see him at http://www.myspace.com/bobbymiller1124 — click on his main pic to check out his pics — w/o his cowboy hat on, he’s a hottie!). So here’s the deal…I like some modern country, (you know, Garth Brooks and such) but I’m really not a big fan of his brand of country and to top it off, I don’t think he’s all that good really (he seems to go flat a lot). But this is a really big part of his life and if I were to date him, he’d expect me to come watch him perform at least fairly often, so do I dare go out with him since I can see an uncomfortable situation coming a mile away? I already am kind of in a quandry…he sent me his myspace address to check out his cd, and now I’m sure he’s expecting a text back telling him what I think…ugh…what should I say? “I don’t think you’re all that great of a singer and I’m not really a fan of your type of music?” THAT would go over well! Any suggestions?

  225.  #225Renee on August 4, 2010 at 4:44 pm

    Oh, crap! Cowboy just sent me a text saying, “Is it that bad?” because it’s been a while since I said I was getting ready to check out his page…what on earth to say to this man while being authenticate?

  226.  #226Renee on August 4, 2010 at 4:45 pm

    That was, “authentic”.

  227.  #227Lucy on August 4, 2010 at 5:17 pm

    Help! The guy I mentioned in #169-173 . . . Haven’t met him, he lives a couple hours away . . . don’t want to meet him any more after this, but would like help knowing how to communicate with him at this point, for practice.

    Him: Well then . . . I feel so good knowing POF fan mail is more important than replying to my texts.

    Him: I don’t appreciate being ignored by you all day

    Me: I wasn’t ignoring you – was busy with my family responsibilities. Sorry you feel bad.

    Him: Well you had responsibilities but still had time to check your pof right but couldn’t say hey to me… reply to me… Don’t play that game with me. I want some 1 and something serious

    Him: So I hope all is well with your fam but when you’re serious and want a good man… let me know

    Me: I don’t want to feel like I have to explain every minute of my day.

    Him: You don’t but out of respect I wouldn’t have done that to you… Left you hanging all day and then you wonder if I’m okay after a nice night of conversation and oh there I am online and not paying up any attention. Those are kiddy games.

    Me: grocery shopping right now. I’ll get back to you.

    Him: I need you right now.

    Okay, so I know we’re not supposed to explain and defend ourselves to a guy, but here’s my explanation for the record: When I got up this morning there were a few random texts from him — no questions, nothing to repond to . . . just “hey beautiful” type messages . . . so I didn’t feel any need or obligation to text him back . .. went about my day, and yes, checked emails, and there were some pof emails, including one about making arrangements for a date this Saturday — guys I’ve been in contact with long before this guy — and their emails were sent this morning too, just like his texts, except THEY required a response, etc. etc.

    I don’t feel like I owe him an explanation! But Rori says we need to give them the CONTEXT of our feelings, so I can’t just say “I feel bad and I don’t want a relationship that feels bad” — without giving him a context. But how do I do that w/o blaming him or making him wrong?

    Here is what I think and feel:

    I feel scared and mad.
    I think he’s way possessive and intrusive and controlling!!!
    I feel turned off.
    I feel blamed, shamed, and criticized (not actually FEELINGS — and these are blaming).
    I don’t want to be with a man who JUDGES and CRITICIZES me!!! I’ve had that from ppl all my life, I do NOT want that in a relationship!!
    Oh my gosh what a sharp contrast to TN man!

    But what do I say to him?????

  228.  #228dorothea on August 4, 2010 at 5:31 pm

    urgh, all that with my LI offering to help me do things to deal with depression, he suggested we start tonight and go for a run and I said ok. but then he said i am driving home from work and i will get in touch with you as soon as i’m home, over three hours ago. and no sign of him. i feel so confused why he would go out of his way to offer to help me when for the first time ever i said i need help, i can’t do this on my own, and he offered all this crap, only to blow me off.

    i feel confused. don’t know what to do. feeling abandoned and disappointed and angry. he knows i am seriously depressed and in need of some support. so why choose this one time after months and months to just blow me off?

    i mean…was he in a deadly car crash or something?

  229.  #229dorothea on August 4, 2010 at 5:53 pm

    ok he just called but i felt freaked out and didn’t feel centered enough to talk to him so i sent it to voicemail and it was some random guy not him being like i’ll call u later okk late. and so i called back and i was like whats up did you leave me a message? and he’s like yeah i’m not feeling very good blah blah and i’m like who left me a message on your phone? and he is like uh no one. and im like ok who are you there with? and i played the message for him on three way and i’m like who are you there with? the messages are marked with the phone number so he could hear that it was his phone and some other person calling on it and he still denies it?

    i mean…what?!?!? i am SO CONFUSED. he SWEARS he is at home alone right now. when i go out of town i get text messages intended for other cell phone accounts, so it’s possible that someone else’s message came through to me, but at the same time, i am feeling like ok at face value this looks very bad.

    what the hell?

  230.  #230Lizzie on August 4, 2010 at 6:05 pm

    LUCY – WOW! is that guy ever NEEDY!!!

    how about:
    I greatly appreciate your kindness in conversations with me. I have reflected deeply on your recent messages, I am feeling concerned about my independance and trust that I feel are so important to establishing a great relationship. I no longer feel we are a good match. I wish you success in finding someone who will respond to your neediness.

    well actually, I would cut it off at I wish you success – I just had to throw in the neediness!!

  231.  #231Daria on August 4, 2010 at 6:20 pm

    hi… wow this feels bad… i feel angry being talked to this way… i dont want to be talked to like this… this feels bad… bye

  232.  #232dorothea on August 4, 2010 at 6:55 pm

    i feel majorly confused and don’t know what to believe

  233.  #233Tina on August 4, 2010 at 6:56 pm

    I just came in from taking care of my needs, hehe. I paid my phone bill , bought some food and visited a friend I havnt visited for awhile. My needs/wants right now is to wash my hair with my new shampoo and conditioner 🙂 I will do that. what a way to live 🙂

  234.  #234Tina on August 4, 2010 at 6:59 pm

    and I bought a phone card for my cellphone thats right mine, well my son let me borrow it until i get my own. this will do for now.

  235.  #235dorothea on August 4, 2010 at 8:07 pm

    i took a walk and realized i can handle this. i was feeling bummed that no one here responded to my recent comments about this weirdo situation but i actually feel really good about dealing with this without having to go to anyone else for advice or guidance.

    rori has equipped me to deal with this 😀

  236.  #236lm on August 4, 2010 at 8:32 pm


    i would feel really pissed off and confused.

  237.  #237Tina on August 4, 2010 at 9:30 pm

    My wants and needs, my wants and needs, Ive never been so focused on my wants and needs. Ive spent all day focused on my wants and needs. I want to watch a series of vids I bought and do the work, thats what I want to do right now. Eggshell man just offlined messaged me saying he just got home , one of his guy friends is hanging out with him til tomorrow. my mind immediately went to HIS wants and needs but oh well, Im going to stay focused on my wants and needs. I just keep repeating it all day long until I fall asleep.

  238.  #238Tina on August 4, 2010 at 9:34 pm

    Eggshells and my wants and needs its a fine line for me right now. I feel good, I feel well like im doing something bad, like I shouldnt be doing this. Im going to wake with my wants and needs in mind, I woke up this morning from a dream taht i had, i looked in the mirror and dreamt I had this hole in my head just beneath my scalp, I could see my brains and stuff, I thought oh Im sure this can be healed but it was strange to see beneath my scalp.

  239.  #239Tina on August 4, 2010 at 9:35 pm

    No not my brains , just teh space between my scalp and skull.

  240.  #240Brenda on August 5, 2010 at 2:09 am


    I feel sad to hear what you are going through. First of all, consider this…is it worth it to have bills paid and a place to live when you are being destroyed inside? This verse from Proverbs is as true today as it was thousands of years ago:

    “Better a dry crust on the roof of a house than a mansion with feasting, and strife.”

    I understand moving and having the means to live are major obstacles. Could you look into a domestic violence shelter in the area? A friend of mine went through a domestic violence program three years ago. After housing her in the shelter, the program paid most of her apartment for 1.5 years! She only had to pay about $100 a month. They supplied her with furniture, household needs, clothing, blankets, toys, etc.

    Is there a friend you could stay with?

    I hope you find some other way to work it out. If you feel you must stay (I know there are no cheap solutions), the #1 best thing you can do when he emotionally abuses you is to walk out.

    If he calls you stupid, you could either say nothing or say something like, “That feels horrible. I don’t like that at all.” and walk out.

    You’re right, arguing doesn’t help. But walking out speaks volumes louder than yelling!

    How do you feel about all of that?

  241.  #241Brenda on August 5, 2010 at 2:27 am


    Eww, gross, yuck, ick! What a jerk! Oh, that’s right, feeling messages. I feel disgusted by this jerk. Oops, that’s blaming. What scum! Shush, Brenda!

    This man has serious issues! He’s beyond needy! You haven’t even met him and he’s stalking you online??? That’s one thing I think is really stupid, btw, that people can see your activities on dating sites. That’s sposta be your deal, to share with as you want.

    Anyway, back to this dude, you could turn some of your feeling messages near the end of your post into a message for him. How about this, just to practice with you:

    I feel angry and invaded. I feel turned off. I don’t want to be with a man who JUDGES and CRITICIZES me!!! I’ve had that from ppl all my life, I do NOT want that in a relationship!!

    I just shortened what you said. For real, when someone is this nasty and rude, do we really care if we give him tasteful messages that much? Do we really care “what do you think?” Not!

    Let me practice with some other ideas:

    This feels really bad. I have no desire to explain myself to you. I don’t want to be with a hostile man.

    I feel icky. I am not looking for a negative, blaming relationship. I feel seriously turned off.

    So what did you actually send, Lucy?

    When a date is still on friendly terms, and he says, “Hey, beautiful!” or something friendly, I respond, even if it’s just a smiley face. Because at that stage, he is most likely feeling the waters, to see if the attraction is mutual.

    If he just says something conversational, like, “I took my car to the garage today”, I ignore it, or if it’s a funny group email or such.

    I can’t get over how immature that was ordering you to talk to him right at that moment, after you said you were at the store. Whew, Mr. Toxic!

  242.  #242Brenda on August 5, 2010 at 2:33 am


    I suppose it’s all after the fact now, but what about saying something like this:

    “I feel really weird and confused about this situation. What do you think?”

    And just let him respond. Let’s say he swears he is home alone…

    “How did I get a voicemail from another man from your phone? I feel really confused and bad. (Pause) I feel really disappointed that you didn’t come as we had discussed. (Pause) I feel insecure about what’s going on. (Pause) I don’t know what to believe. (Pause). It would feel so good to feel your support while I am floundering so badly. What do you think?”

    Dorothea, how are you doing?

  243.  #243Brenda on August 5, 2010 at 2:36 am


    Just to remind you, Rori’s article leading this thread may be very applicable for you…note the feeling messages she suggests there.


  244.  #244dorothea on August 5, 2010 at 8:24 am

    well it turned into a bunch of drama. him being like there’s nothing i can say to change your mind blah blah i guess that’s that, i don’t feel good tonight so i’m done, blah blah.

    i listened to the whole message and after it’s over there’s about a minute of weird silence and then bizarre sounds…definitely sounds like the phone company goofed again. It’s happened before but the timing was rather unfortunate.

    i am willing to talk to him about this but i don’t want to feel like the only reason things get figured out or fixed is because *i* set the ball rolling. I let him know that and I asked him what he thinks. It was an email so we’ll see what he says.

    I feel worn out on so many problems coming up with me and him. At the same time, I am gettng the feeling that there are several relationship demons inside both of us that come up to be exorcised. Like my untrusting demon. Or my paranoid demon. If me and him are going to seriously get married and all that, these issues of trust and weirdness are gonna have to get worked out one way or another.

  245.  #245Tiffany on August 5, 2010 at 8:31 am

    Hi ladies! This is the first time I’ve ever posted but I’ve been reading through these blogs and comments for awhile now and find them very helpful.

    This article seemed perfect to read today as I have found myself in a predicament *sigh*. I was CDing but have recently sent the ol’ no thanks to most of the guys I was seeing/chatting with on Match because I got hooked on one. I still have one other (who drives 2 hours to see me) that I haven’t cut off yet. Anyway, this ONE I have been chatting with/dating since the end of May and we became intimate. Like the earlier posts, this is something I need to control because when I’m intimate, my emotions get involved and ugh, never seems to work.

    So, I thought I was getting better with this and that my new “relationship” was perhaps the one. I hid my Match profile, he deleted his. We haven’t talked specifically about anything relationship-wise, but it “feels” like we’re in one. I know, I know, I think I’ve discovered I’m in an imaginary relationship, again, *sigh*.

    Current problem – last night he had a party at his house for his boss’s wife’s birthday. Called it a ‘company party’. He told me about it, even asked me what I would be doing that night, but didn’t invite me. I was hurt. I’m sure everyone brought their boyfriends/girlfriends, husbands/wives, but he didn’t invite me. He called me late last night, presumably after everyone was gone, to tell me good night and he couldn’t wait to see me this weekend, he hopes. I didn’t answer and he had to leave that on vm. This morning he texts that his head hurts. I didn’t respond.

    I don’t know how to deal with this. I don’t want to tell him he did something wrong and that I’m hurt, though this is truly how I feel. I’m trying to apply all the lessons and tips and comments from above, but this just sucks. I really like this guy and can’t believe I stopped CDing and let myself get hung up. Don’t know where to go from here. Oh, and one more thing, way back in May he had another party for a friend (he has a big bar in an out-building that he rents out) and, not even really knowing me then, invited me to come help bartend that party with him. I didn’t, but just the thought that back then he would invite me to be around his friends, but now, after seeing each other and being intimate and all that, he doesn’t feel like inviting me to this?!?

    Advice? Input? Please and thanks =)

  246.  #246Lucy on August 5, 2010 at 8:35 am

    i replied to needy man: i felt scared and angry reading those texts today. …. then he texted back and asked me to call him but i said i have to sleep – driving to the city in a.m. (ahem, the one the other guy lives in who said it’s too far to date… well here i am with my d for her dr. appt as usual… apparently it’s not too far for me to drive for someone i love.) thnx brenda and was it lizzie who gave suggestions. much appreciated! and now…..

  247.  #247dorothea on August 5, 2010 at 8:36 am

    brenda i like all the feeling messages you suggested. i am writing them down for later. it’s not too late to start communicating right.

  248.  #248Brenda on August 5, 2010 at 8:44 am


    Sorry you are having a hard time. Maybe since you two have been getting closer lately, you could just totally unzip your heart and share that you have trust issues, and “what can we do?” Hang in there, woman! It will get better!


    I agree that it’s frustrating to come to a city routinely where someone can’t be bothered to come see you. It seems like today’s society has little commitment. People get caught up in their own little worlds and just can’t be bothered to go down a new road. Totally his loss!

  249.  #249Lucy on August 5, 2010 at 8:48 am

    woohoo! I FEEL SO EXCITED!!! and nervous….. I HAVE A DATE WITH WINKER HOTTIE ON SATURDAY!!! details later – too hard on my phone – but he is planning a beach adventure! so so excited and scared and trying so hard not to let my heart and hopes and thoughts and dreams leap on ahead of reality… this is the date i’ve been growing to get to – a man who moves me and meets my requirements (on paper) – remember his song??? maybe i should rename him taste of honey… maybe i’ll see if he deserves that name Sat.

  250.  #250Brenda on August 5, 2010 at 8:53 am

    Go Lucy! That’s wonderful! That really is a beautiful song!

  251.  #251Renee on August 5, 2010 at 9:25 am

    Lucy — Good for you! I know how excited you must be! I’m sure it will be hard, but try not to get attached to the outcome…this is me (the pot) calling the kettle black here, but I know Rori’s right about that being key to sending out a good, healthy vibe.

    Brenda — I think you’re right about people showing so little committment to things and people these days and as much as I’ve been enjoying online dating lately (I’m triple-booked for this weekend — yay!), I think it’s more common with people you meet online than it is with people you meet in person. People (men especially, it seems), get into the mode of shopping for the “perfect” person just like they’d shop for a car online, and as soon as some inconvenience crops up, they’re out the door. It’s kind of sad, really, because you miss out on a lot of good people that way.

    I dodged a bullet with the cowboy last night, but with a difficult situation…when he wrote back again, I was with my dad in the ER and told him that, so he dropped the topic of whether I liked his music or not. (My dad has a kidney stone, so he’s going to be ok, but he’s just in a lot of pain right now.)

    Now I’ve got to figure out what to do with long distance guy, the original source of this post! He called this morning (after I had drunk texted him Saturday night and we went back and forth a while) and said he just wanted to see how I was and what was going on in my world…I was on my way out the door so I didn’t answer and I’m trying to decide if/when to call him back…I still like him, I just don’t like the fact that I’m not the priority I was to him earlier and I don’t know how to deal with that…I mean, I’ve got other men coming out of my ears at the moment, so that’s great, but I obviously know him better than any of the other men I’ve just started dating, so I’d like to give him a shot…I just don’t know, though…he was treating me like I was number one girl in his life and then he started treating my like I was “back-up” girl, and that’s what prompted my message that this just wasn’t working for me…

    Meanwhile, I’m txting/talking on the phone to like 6 guys right now and they all seem to be making me a priority, so I certainly don’t want to make him a priority if I’m just an option for him (as someone said in this blog on another post). What do you think?

  252.  #252Brenda on August 5, 2010 at 9:43 am


    I think you should contact him. Just treat him equally as all your other CDs, which is what Rori always recommends. Tell him to get in line! LOL! 🙂

    Seriously, how bout something like this:

    “Long distance guy, it feels so good to hear from you! I would enjoy seeing you, and I’m booked until Saturday. What do you think?”

    I mean, relationshihps ebb and flow on both ends. Maybe he was regrouping when he saw it getting serious. Maybe he was deciding how serious he was ready to get. Maybe your past leaning forward scared him off. Maybe you need a brief talk with him when you see him to clear the air.

    All in all, he seems like a decent man to me. I think you just had some misunderstandings between you.

    How do you feel about that?

    Renee, how did it go when the newspaper article came out?

  253.  #253Renee on August 5, 2010 at 10:43 am


    Thank you so much for asking about the newspaper article. Apparently, the paper decided to drop the story, but I guess the threat of bad publicity did scare her a little cause when we had our court-ordered mediation yesterday, she offered to pay me a sum of money that was fairly close to what I paid out for the devaluation of the vehicle after putting 9500 miles on it, the towing, storage and having to have it detailed again so I could sell it. I’m probably out a couple hundred dollars still, but at least I’m not stuck with the whole amount, so I agreed to settle.

    I was so angry though, when she sat there lying to the mediator about what happened…the thing is, she contradicted herself several times, even though she’d been coached by her attorney (her runningmate is an attorney). She is such a fowl piece of filth and I honestly think I would have to move out of my state if she ends up being elected — she’s a total con-woman who screws people over all the time and gets away with it.

    So, I ended up not having to face the embarrassment of having her lies about me printed in the paper, so that was a relief, but it would almost (almost) have been worth it to embarrass her publicly, you know?

    Thanks for your input on long distance guy — I don’t think has a bad man or anything, I just didn’t like the feeling that he had gotten what he wanted (sex) so therefore I was no longer worth a major chase. I still feel confused and rejected about why he did back off and based on Rori’s advice, I don’t think I can ask him, you know?

    I can’t really imagine how I could broach the subject if/when I do see him without coming across as needy.

    How are things with Bill?

  254.  #254Brenda on August 5, 2010 at 11:46 am

    Well it sounds like it came out quite good about the car situation. Could have been much worse.

    My perception is that long distance guy was just feeling a need to withdraw after so much intimacy. It is common. Christian Carter talks about it a lot in “Inside the Mind of a Man”. And he’s a man! I think you are cancelling him out prematurely, but it’s your situation.

    If you do see him, you could just wait for a moment when you feel kind of connected and say something like, “I wonder what happened after that wonderful weekend we were together. I felt kind of abandoned and yucky. What was going on?”

    I may be wrong here, but sometimes when time has passed, it’s like a fresh, clean slate. You might be together with him again and you might see each other in a whole new light. It might even be a non-issue. Distance makes the heart grow fonder.

    Did you ever verify if he really did drop his phone in the water? I always thought it was significant that he introduced you to all his friends. And he’s still in touch. He’s still interested.

    And who knows? Maybe his Aunt Millie had a stroke…it might have had nothing to do with you!

    I brushed past Bill in the aisle this morning and lightly touched his arm, saying, “Excuse me”. Good conversations the last two days. I feel more warmth from him than ever. I am leaning back today. I spotted him at a training meeting, and I did nothing to make eye contact and say hello. That’s his job.

  255.  #255tinque on August 5, 2010 at 1:53 pm

    dorothea – I understand your frustration and your fear. We all have stuff we deal with from the past which colors our now.
    The best way I found to deal with the fears and thoughts that arise when they do is this:
    when in doubt, give the benefit of the doubt.
    And then go to work on yourself, quiet the gremlins as best as you can, and do whatever it takes to calm yourself. This alone will help you gain a better perspective.
    If after all this you still feel off, then speak, but by this time you will be calmer, so it will be easier to do so.
    “I still feel weird about the other night…”

  256.  #256Brenda on August 5, 2010 at 2:49 pm

    Tinque, I think you were the one who advised me to put the nasty voices in the corner and give them a cookie! LOL! I love that, and I think of it often!

  257.  #257dorothea on August 5, 2010 at 2:52 pm

    tinque, your take on things is always very much appreciated. thanks girl!

  258.  #258Brenda on August 5, 2010 at 2:55 pm

    I second that! Thank you for all your contributions, Tinque!

  259.  #259tinque on August 5, 2010 at 2:58 pm


  260.  #260Lucy on August 5, 2010 at 4:36 pm

    Thanks for the encouragement, Brenda and Renee!

    Renee, your words about not being attached to the outcome brought to mind this part of “Lovers Lullaby” —

    Oh what fools, what children,
    to follow the heart
    For a dream that might last
    just one night
    But something that doesn’t
    speak English says do
    And I trade in this real world
    for one night with you

    And something with wings
    and speaks only in blues
    Tells me trade in this real world
    for one night with you


    It’s like, you have to take a risk and live that moment, that one night, as if it might be the only night you have with that particular man — be free and open and fully and joyfully present in the moment — and whatever happens after that, just happens, and nothing is lost because you had that precious moment with him.

  261.  #261Lucy on August 5, 2010 at 4:45 pm

    Jennifer, I feel genuinely curious — your friends that are swingers, polyamorous, etc. — do they find that to be a fulfilling way to live and do relationships? (In case anyone is wondering, yes, I’m asking this because of TN man — I have an inkling that he and interloper girl may be living sorta like that, sorta kinda maybe, and yes, I’m wondering if it is sustainable for him/them longterm . . . And if anyone gets mad at me for thinking about this for a moment — tough!)

  262.  #262Renee on August 5, 2010 at 5:14 pm

    Lucy — I think I get the point of the lullaby (which is very lovely, by the way) but if I lived every date like it was my last, I’d sleep with every good kisser I went out with, lol.

    Someone tell me why it is that after long distance guy called me today (for the first time in 2 weeks) and I finally get myself to a good emtional space and find the time to call him back, and I got voicemail…left him a message, but now I’m going to be wishing he would call me back all night tonight.

    Trying not to be attached to the outcome here, but it’s hard when the person you feel like rejected you finally reaches out again…there’s obviously a sense of rejection I need to heal there…

  263.  #263Lucy on August 5, 2010 at 5:48 pm

    Hmm, I feel weird reading this — “if I lived every date like it was my last, I’d sleep with every good kisser I went out with”

  264.  #264Lizzie on August 5, 2010 at 7:06 pm

    hmm the new EH cutie is going away for a vacation and I will be away the following weeks – hmmmmm….it will be a month before I can practice the in-person CD. Never the less, I like his overall appoach. We shall see if he looses interest.

    So, others using EH – what is your take when a guy sends a message back that he doesn’t want to go to direct email? I am just going to lean back now. I made the first move. Now we shall see if he steps up.

  265.  #265Rori Raye on August 5, 2010 at 8:42 pm

    Tiffany – just get back to CDing…re-activate yourself on match and ADD another site! Just get back at it. And you HAVE to talk about the party – say…I feel really awkward and silly that I didn’t bring this up…but I felt awful that I wasn’t invited to your party. (Perhaps it was a company-only party…) but you need to TALK about it. Love, Rori

  266.  #266Ankita on August 5, 2010 at 10:12 pm

    Hello Sirens,

    I feel enraged….
    I feel bad…

    I feel like shouting at the top of my voice…..

    I felt bad last night when V started arguing with me, just coz he thought that am with him bcoz of his money and job…. What a dumb person!

    He started judging me and asked me to judge as well. I refused saying it’s not my cup of tea…. I feel what I feel!

    I felt bad..! I felt like he’s taking me for granted…

    He then started asking me questions which did show that he thinks that am too much demanding, etc.
    I snapped it all. For whole 3 hours I did try to convince him otherwise and clear his confusion… I also did try to keep down the phone but he didn’t let me.. At the end of 3 hours, I finally gave up, and said to him, “Don’t comment on me unless you know me really well. Am not here to take any abuses from you. If you wanna talk, talk properly.”
    Then he started opening up, and told me what issues did hurt him, and frankly those were as simple as changing my menu, complaining that my legs are hurting…. OMG… These petty issues which peoples hardly notice….

    I had also told him that when the time comes for marriage if he doesn’t steps up to the plate, I’ll have to marry another person. He asked was it so easy for another guy to replace him? Then when he said that it made him feel like I don’t love him, then I told, “I was kidding, btw. And well, if you really love me why the heck will you let me date others? Make me yours before I go to others.”

    He also told me that he’s spending money on me just coz he has that in hand, else he’s a family oriented guy and gave most of his earned money to them. If he didn’t had them, he wouldn’t be spending it on me. He asked if I’ve a problem with that? I said, “Am happy to see that you think so much about your family. It’s nice. After all you aren’t throwing away your money like others.”
    He said, “I’m!”
    I said, “What do you mean by that?”
    He, “Nothing!”
    I said, in tears, “If when we meet together, you think you throw away the money, please don’t spend it on me ever again. What matters to me si you, not your money!”
    He, “Easier said than done!”
    Me, “First see how I handle the situation, then comment on me! Unless you have seen me in certain circumstance, how can you say i will behave a certain way?”
    He, “I know you felt bad by whatever I said. Sorry for that!”
    I, “If you wanna say sorry, say it for the whole time you kept holding yourself back from these issues. Why don’t you discuss it with me as soon as they crop up? Am not a mind reader that I’ll get what did hurt you. You gotta tell that!”
    He silent!

    He also keeps commenting on a girl’s pic on fb. that girl has some 672 friends, and always keeps uploading her new pics, and he is one of the commentators… I feel pissed off!

    He is my guy! I should be the one who he first comments upon! On the other hand, I do comment on some of his pics,and he keeps commenting on her album and pics…!!

    I feel so in rage… I feel angry…..
    I feel like, “Man! I love you! And I show that to you! Why you keep commenting on her ones? Check my ones, comment on my ones!”

    All I know is that I SHOULD BE HIS FIRST PRIORITY…!!

  267.  #267Tiffany on August 6, 2010 at 7:12 am

    Thanks Rori! Yesterday it was like, from afar, he could *feel* me leaning back. He texted, a lot, which is unusual for him. I texted back and asked about his party, later I texted “I felt sad when you didn’t invite me”. Then, he called! Which is very odd for him, and he was with his daughter, again very unusual! We didn’t talk specifically about the party issue but he was very sweet and we just chatted and laughed about grocery shopping and silly things like that. I will see him this weekend and feel strong about talking to him now.

    Thanks so much for your comment!

  268.  #268Brenda on August 6, 2010 at 10:37 am

    Rori, RE: #265 – Not Invited to Party

    I feel a little confused on this one. I instantly recall a situation a few years ago that left me feeling like I SHOULDN’T say anything in a case like this.

    I thot Elisabeth was one of my best friends…until I was invited to her wedding but not her reception. Not to mention not asked to be a bridesmaid!

    I expressed how bad I felt that I was excluded from the reception. She explained that her mother was controlling much of the wedding plans. They were going to an expensive restaurant, and she was told to only invite 50 people. She said don’t worry, I’ll straighten it out and you are invited.

    I felt like a 5th wheel there. She was now a graduate law student. She sat in a separate room, surrounded by all her law student friends, while I sat with strangers. I got little more than a hello how are you from her all day. I wished I hadn’t said anything.

    Since then, I’ve been exploring ways to deal with that sort of thing in order to get a more positive outcome.

    I started saying that sort of thing to Franny about 3 months ago, that I felt bad she had offered to be nightly prayer partners, but she rarely called me and rarely had a prayer request. She assured me I could call her anytime I wanted and “we ought to set a time.” I leaned back to let her set that time, and she didn’t.

    I had been going over to her house every 1-3 weeks. After I brought up my desire to be a bigger part of her life in that way, she hardly called me and turned down an effort I made to plan to get together. So I leaned back and didn’t call her at all. About three weeks ago, she invited me out. When we got together, she said, “So how long has it been??”

    I said, unsmiling, “Two or three months.”

    Our friendship is still intact, but I have concluded I am more interested in the friendship than she is. I know this isn’t a boy-girl relationship, but I think the same principles apply. So I am asking for future reference, to learn from these incidences.

    Any thoughts?

  269.  #269Brenda on August 6, 2010 at 10:39 am

    P.S. I am not at all sure I am correct, but I am concluding it is more effective to lean back if the other person’s actions indicate that you don’t mean as much to them as they do to you. Is that accurate?

  270.  #270Brenda on August 6, 2010 at 10:48 am


    You would do yourself a huge favor if you would circular date. I understand the joy of having an exclusive relationship, “Your Guy”, but this is what circular dating is for in the long term…

    It protects you from being at his mercy for how you are treated. If he is treating you badly, you can withdraw. Feeling the attention of several men give you the powerful feeling of your femininity. Ride that wave! I see you falling into the boyfriend trap Rori talks about.

    Rather than argue with him, you could just say feeling messages and then hang up. He can’t force you to stay on the phone. You could say something like this,

    “I feel awful. I don’t like to be falsely accused. It would feel so good to be with a man who cherishes me. What do you think?”

    Or whatever is your truth at the moment. If he still keeps trying to argue, you could say,

    “I feel horrible and yucky. I don’t want to be treated like this. I’ll talk to you later, bye.”

    You can choose whether or not you are in a three hour argument. What do you think?

  271.  #271Rosalie on August 6, 2010 at 11:02 am

    I’m afraid to give you tough love, but I’dike to be helpful. He’s not your guy! Btw, FB causes so many problems in relationships… (sigh) The devil invented it for men to play…

    You are involved deeply. Do you CD?

    Sending you a big hug!!!

  272.  #272Tiffany on August 6, 2010 at 11:37 am

    Thanks for your comment Brenda…I agree completely. I’ve been thinking about the party thing and he was hosting it for his boss’s wife’s birthday, so he was busy. Maybe he didn’t invite me because as you discovered at your friend’s reception, I would not have gotten his attention and would not know anyone else there. I really absorbed this when my girlfriend’s started planning my upcoming b-day party. I don’t know that I’ll invite him, probably not. Not because I don’t like him but because it’s my birthday and all my old and new friends will be there. He won’t know anyone but me, and I don’t want to feel like I need to entertain him. I’m okay with the party thing now.

    As for leaning back, I totally agree! I do that with my kids a lot lately and it works well. It really de-escalates or even prevents conflicts, I feel better and more peaceful, and they come to me when they’re over it, whatever “it” may have been.

    I also agree with your PS, though I’m not positive, but it seems to work and be the thing to do when someone doesn’t seem interested in you, whether a girl or a boy friend. You’ll find out either way what their level of interest is, and feel better about it to.

    Thanks again Brenda…I love this site =)

  273.  #273Brenda on August 6, 2010 at 11:46 am

    Hi Tiffany,

    I love this site too! It has changed my life! It is like a nonstop pajama party! Yeah! We’ll party, with or without men! 🙂

    With it being a work-related party, is it possible that he isn’t sure enough yet in the relationship to introduce you to coworkers? I ask because last year, even tho I dated Ryan 10-11 months, he never took me to any family gatherings. His parents met me only because he lived with them, but he didn’t even invite me home for dinner, even tho his Mom assured me she invited him to invite me. I think he just wanted to keep our relationship separate from the rest of his life until it was a sure thing. And he was one of the rare ones who was totally evaluating me, not rushing things whatsoever.

    What I’m learning is that MY concern is MY feelings. What anyone else is thinking doesn’t really matter. I am still grasping this. Maybe it’s better to clear the air and at least state how I feel. Maybe at the right moment.

  274.  #274Tiffany on August 6, 2010 at 11:52 am

    Oh Brenda I couldn’t agree more! I was so upset and just completely distracted with this whole stupid party thing. When I finally texted that I was sad about not being invited I felt oh-so-much better! It’s not that I wanted him to do anything, but I wanted to express myself. Otherwise I would have this resentment thing in me and if I held it in I wouldn’t interact with him honestly next time I saw him. It’s so liberating that it doesn’t really matter what he’s thinking or why he did this or that, only how I *feel* about it. I hope I can maintain this state of mind!

    I love your analogy about the pj party btw =)


  275.  #275Ankita on August 7, 2010 at 3:37 am

    @ Brenda and Rosalie

    CD! Yes!
    Though these days am not able to do CD properly, coz half of my day gets spent at college… But then, am trying my best now to communicate to as many men as I can! After all, it’s me who’ll have to make time too! I hid my profile on zoosk, but it’s still on fropper and I keep talking to guys on FB…!!
    He isn’t my guy still! And I don’t like to be treated as such!
    When I told him this, he asked me, “What do you think of yourself?”
    Me, “Whatever! But I deserve a good treatment! Not such crappy ones!”
    He, “You are so proud! You are more confident than necessary!”
    I, “Accept me the way I’m!”

    Last night he did call me, I was asleep, and tired, he sensed that in my voice and asked me to rest, I’d agree. (Rori says to take care of yourself, so I’d that! I hope this conveys him that I like to take care of myself!)

    Big hug to you both too! Will keep updating more on what follows!

  276.  #276Sapphire-n-jewels on August 8, 2010 at 4:02 am

    Hello all
    I have realised over the last few weeks that my conversations with my ex fiancé had changed and we mostly talked about his work when he is away (electrical engineer) and in the early days of our relationship it was always feelings etc. Posted last week that he was telling me that he realises he wants a women who is vulnerable etc all the things that Rori says a man wants. Would almost have thought he has been reading the blog himself lol. 
    He did come round yesterday and things are not completely closed between us as he keeps saying things like everything happens for a reason and that if we are meant to be together it will sort it self out. 
    I said sorry to him yesterday and feel that things have been crazy over the last six weeks I have pushed and pushed to get him to come back. I have tried to manipulate him, tried to control the outcome and pleaded and that I realise all I have done is pushed him away. He said that he is sensitive to my feelings. Since we broke up he has been back twice now but then I get all needy again and he goes again. 
    Anyway he said yesterday that we will be spending lots of time together at the end of this month as we getting the house ready to sell (to go our separate ways, god that feels so scary) and see how we get on then. So feel he is still open to us. 
    Surely if he loved me he would want to be spending time together now. He keeps saying he removing the stress at the moment and as far as he is concerned we are both single. I know he not dating. We have had to put up with lot if crap from my family and he can’t deal with that. He says it should never have happened and I do agree with him. But this all happened months ago and things have settled now. 

    I won’t to work to get us back to talking about feelings as I know this will bring him back and open him up but not sure where to start. At the moment we are bearly talking. When we do it is logistics and talking about work and thinking stuff. Girls how do I reverse this. Yes I know even saying this shows I am still trying to control the outcome. 

    I have been CDing. 
    Do not find myself leaning back and doing the tools when on dates. Need to practice this
    Best wishes sapphire

  277.  #277Brenda on August 8, 2010 at 8:00 am


    Did you see the new thread? Rori wrote it just for you! Answering your questions about circular dating! You go, girl!

  278.  #278Brenda on August 8, 2010 at 8:03 am


    I am happy to hear there is still a chance with your ex. All I can think of to reverse the conversation level is to just shoot feeling messages left and right. In a rush, gotta go…

  279.  #279michele on August 22, 2010 at 2:18 pm

    Rori and All,

    I’m reading reading reading!!! I’m at the verge of ending it with my boyfriend. I’m doing everything wrong. I can’t seem to help it, but I’m just so tired of trying to do the “right” things. I’m overwhelmed. I don’t really want a 4 year relationship to end but man o man he’s killing me….

    Our situation now started with a terrible lunch on Friday. Terrible meaning he was very distracted by things at work and even said that he should have cancelled but didn’t want me to flip out. So here I am sitting there all dressed up and SO excited to see him and he says THAT. I felt invisible. This is not a new issue. That said…last week lunch was great! I never know who is going to meet me…know what I mean? I knew he was busy at work but Jeez…who isn’t?

    Later, I texted him and said that I felt sad that he would think that I was such a big bully that he couldn’t cancel and that I wished he had considering how bad I felt as I was driving back to work. What a lousy day.

    You can imagine how that went over. So several texts about me being a control freak and him being lazy we talked and actually ended up OK. BUt OK still feels bad. I worry that he will just give up. Wondering if should just give up. I’m not happy. And I’m making things worse. He is so hot and cold.

    I wrote him a letter to just clarify in my head why I am so upset. No, I’m not going to send it. It’s to clear my head.

    Here it is…
    The problem is two fold

    1. I’m happy to let you make the plan, take the reigns Etc…. However it happens so rarely because if all the stuff/drama/obsticls in the way. There’s always something to get worked up about. Lately, I can’t enjoy your attention because I have been conditioned to brace for impact. Something always comes up that makes me think this has GOT to be the deal beaker. It’s an exhausting cycle. This is an old issue and one that I have come to accept even when its very hard. You are a drama king… Whatever. Old news. We laugh about this. I take responsibilty for wanting to take control. Chaos makes me nervous. And I know that must make you crazy. Like I said old issue nothing new, except I’m exhausted of the constant ups and downs between us because of unavoidable things going on in your life. This too shall pass.

    2. Compounding the other problem is this recent development. Unfortunately when things are good, you’ve made a habit to squash any good feeling I may be feeling about you by saying ” well if I didn’t you’d flip out, freak out, over analyse, cry (insert insult here….) instead of just saying yeah… I missed you too…better to say nothing about it at all. Let me believe that youre enjoying yourself too and leave it at that. That one statement kills all the joy. And makes me feel like I’m not worth the time instead of letting me feel good about the time you do invest in me. That’s it. Thats what hurts. Feels like there’s a price for feeling good. In order to spend time with you… Do i need to let you make me feel bad? Instead letting it flow naturally you squash it by making me feel bad about it because if you could be honest.. you’d really rather be somewhere else. Very similar to what you accuse me of…. Squashing the flow of things always trying to manage things, always wanting something from you. it makes me wonder why you even bother. It makes me wonder why I even bother because it sucks to feel like a thief. It tells me that I don’t make you happy, it tells me that making me happy is a chore. It feels like a warning that perhaps anytime now you may realize what a waste of your energy this all is. That makes me want to run. That makes want to get to the bottom of things, work it out or finish it, It makes me take your temp. It makes me wonder if we have run our course. It makes me feel like i need to play things out till the end. It makes me want to protect myself.

    The problem is not the things or emotions that you do NOT say or show but in the things that you DO say.
    I know you well enough now to fill in the gaps for myself of what your NOT saying. I can’t change that, I know. I don’t want to. It’s who you are and I respect that even though sometimes I desperately wish you would break character at just the right time. When you have it’s such a nice surprise and I am elated and feel wonderful. These moments are why I hang in there.

    We have not talked since Friday. He said he would try to do better, I said I would try to relax. But it always comes back to an impass. What do I do? I’m tired of talking to him and know in my mind (not my heart) that it makes things worse.

  280.  #280Rori Raye on August 23, 2010 at 5:00 pm

    Michelle – the problem here is that you’re blaming. Yes, you’re angry – but, really – you’ve been there for 4 years. If he’s a loser – then you’re only angry at yourself for staying. And if he’s not a loser, but you have trouble communicating and connecting and being loving with one another instead of always trying to get what you want out of one another – that’s different. You have to take 50% of responsibility for that. In fact – I’m of the opinion that we each have 100% of responsibility – he has 100% and you have 100% – because, in a spiritual way – you are just mirroring each other. If you have difficulty communicating in a loving way – so will he. One person has to break the cycle – and it is my dearest wish for you to learn to communicate your feelings without blame and attack. Everything you say here in this letter is blame and attack, and – I know this is harsh – but if I were him, I would not feel safe enough to love you either. Therefore – neither of you feel safe. That’s where you start. Love, Rori

  281.  #281Isabel on December 19, 2011 at 5:15 pm

    ok, I read the post and I am confused. How, exactly does a woman tell a man something he did or didn’t do hurt her without telling him he hurt her? What words do you use if not “I am feeling hurt?” How does a woman convey that it is not about right or wrong, just how she feels and hopes she can be heard, validated and a resoloution found through compromise while at the same time helping her man feel appreciated and secure? I really would like to learn how to do this; my boyfriend and I seem to have this same fight over and over. I need to tell him how I feel but he he feels “bad” if I do and we both end feeling hurt. We have been together a year and we are talking about getting married next year. I don’t want to take this pattern into our marriage.

  282.  #282Rori Raye on December 19, 2011 at 6:04 pm

    Isabel – Your question is CLASSIC – and I deal with it a lot in my Love Scripts program…the key is to be specific. One example: “When that happened…” (notice I didn’t say – “When you did that…” ) “I felt…unimportant, left out, angry, sad, afraid, defensive…..” (fill in the blank, just don’t say “hurt” – it’s an ambiguous word. Love, Rori

  283.  #283Isabel on December 20, 2011 at 4:11 am

    I have tried to use words other than “hurt”, what I get back is “I’m not responsible for your feelings”. For my boyfriend, it seems any word that I use to express my feelings upsets him. He will say “you are telling me I’m bad”. And I will say, no, of course not, neither one of us is “bad” or “good” or “right” or “wrong”, it’s just about differances and working things out as partners. It doesn’t seem to work. Honestly, I am becoming more and more discouraged, I love him, but we need to be able to talk about things without anger, or defensiveness or escalating hurt. I know there is equal work here, I in no way think this is all his fault. For my part, I know I must be expressing myself in a way that triggers him. How do I make him feel safe enough to hear me and to express to me what he needs from me?

  284.  #284MD on May 2, 2012 at 5:26 am


    I have a story, a tiny bit similar to the OP.

    We met through a friend’s mutual recommendation. He lives abroad.

    He was kind, sweet, so funny, and very smart. He left last week.

    We parted in good terms, he suggested I visit the week later (holidays in my country). He called me 2 days later. I said I would think about it. And never replied.

    We had mature conversations about us hooking up just like that so quickly (I slept with him the second night) – I informed him I was not comfortable with the fling and he asked me “do you like me” “yes” “we’re having a great time together and I want to get to know you”.

    He was kind and understanding. At this stage, neither expected anything. We were having a great time, full stop. And I was ok with that.

    Although I always had a weird sense that he’s too smooth (bit of a player), I would like to call and say hi, but have NO idea how he feels about me.

    It feels the same as the OP – it was fine during that time and now, I am going into infatuated mode…after only a few days spent with a stranger (except for my friend’s good recommendations).

    I take full responsibility for feeling that way but don’t know what to “do” – if there is anything I can do.

    Did he play me (he was so explicit, even suggesting professional solutions so I move to his country) ? Did I get caught in the wrong game ?

  285.  #285Rori Raye on May 2, 2012 at 9:00 am

    MD – Hi, and the point is this: What happens, what’s GOING to happen, how things unfold is not something you can know or control. Same is true for ALL of life. What you have modest control over is the meaning you give to things even when you can’t know what they mean or how they’ll work out, and your attitude about your experiences, thoughts, feeling, and what happens. The moment you become emotionally invested in a man – that’s when you look at what’s going on inside YOU – and taking steps to feel as good as you can about all the decisions you make at every moment, including how you want to relate to that man. What HE does is irrelevant, except for the information it gives you to help you make the best choices for yourself. Love, Rori

  286.  #286Bopi on May 19, 2012 at 3:51 pm

    So, I have started to know this man who is a musician. The thing is, he used to be VERY admired in his younger days. He has been through a painful separation with his ex and they have a child together.

    I have been very supportive to him. He told me he felt all left alone, and that she had been devious to him, and that he barely gets to see his child. He has been very nice and supportive to me in the beginning too. He used to be very eager, and amongst others helped me getting started with my company. He started to talk about a future for us, and it sounded very nice, funny and free-spirited, but there’s where it ends. I have felt as if I have almost “chased” him for a while, wanting to help him settle his life even more, and show him a possible future with me and MY kids, maybe along with his child. But when kids are involved, everything gets so much more complicated. Because I have to take considerations into THEIR feelings and needs too. He lives far away from me, so I can’t just leave the place where I live and move closer to him. Neither can he. We have to consider the other parent too, and I won’t take MY kids long away from their Dad.

    I guess these things makes him think twice about committing to me. But the chemistry between us is incredible. When we talk, we could talk for hours and hours, and the sexual tension is there too, although we haven’t had sex yet. I don’t want to as long as he is so inconsistent, and he doesn’t think it’s a responsible thing to do either. I guess he means he doesn’t want us to get into a toxic relationship, and that kind of IS a mature and nice thought.

    Now I can see that he is “fishing” after more female acquaintances on Facebook, and it breaks my heart! I sent him a text a couple of days ago, but he hasn’t answered it. He COULD have answered it, it was really just a funny comment, but he hasn’t.

    If a man is used to be admired from a lot of women, how do you handle that? I doubt that he is a “fighter”, since he can just pick and choose another of his admirers if a conflict arrives.

    He has said he is tired of being “accused” of cheating, and he is tired of “drama” with other women. He has had a LOT of drama in his life he says. Well, I figure he has. I WOULD like to teach him a lesson, that he would probably stop being so flirty to keep out of trouble, but I suppose that would be the wrong thing for me to do.

    Am I just heading for the crumbs here, or is a REAL relationship possible with this man? What do others think, and what shall I do with this? Or maybe NOT do?

  287.  #287deborah on May 24, 2012 at 10:41 am

    i was in your same situation. i had a really good friend that did that to me. maybe he did just fall asleep. i think you could have a really strong relationship with this man.

  288.  #288Bopi on May 24, 2012 at 11:51 pm

    Hi again. I wrote a long comment some days ago, but nobody have given me a response. I am also new on this forum, and I’m not from the US. I have fallen totally in love with this musician, and it’s not just because he used to be a hottie, but because his personality is just – wonderful. We had an argument the other day, it was about me setting boundaries, and I have tried to do that with feeling messages, and he handled it brilliantly. He said that he felt it good that I dared to say things like that to him, since I must feel quite comfortable with him, and that if you really like someone, you like their ‘not so pleasant’ sides too. What worries me is all his girlfriends, since he has been single for a while. I am so afraid to get heartbroken if he is a player, who knows what to say to women… Excuse my English if I don’t manage to express myself properly… Would anyone bother to read my previous post to get more of the story?

  289.  #289Radlove on May 25, 2012 at 1:16 am


    Welcome! Sorry you haven’t had much response. Most of us write on the newest thread of the blog, found here:


    What Rori talks about is not allowing ourselves to be treated second class, and to lean back, letting a man come to us. The best thing you could do is to Circular Date…dating 3-5 men at the same time. I highly recommend her programs, such as Targetting Mr. Right or Commitment Blueprint!

    The best way to deal with him is to not do anything at all, unless he contacts you. I am trying to retrain my mind to wait for a man who is crazy about ME and me alone!

    Best wishes!

  290.  #290Bopi on May 25, 2012 at 1:37 am

    Thank you so much for your comment, Radlove.

    I see that I need to add more details here perhaps… The thing is, we both have kids, and we live quite far away from each other. That of course makes everything more complicated. We both have exes to considerate also, and of course they need to see the kids too.

    I am 45 and he is 50. I meet a lot of men both in my work and through my engagements in politics, I flirt a lot too, but so far in my life I have never met anyone like this guy. He does say the same about me. What he is worried about, is the kids and tearing them up from their environment. I agree, but I only want to keep our “relationship” in that level that we can see each other when we don’t have the kids at start, but he has said that he would like me to move in with him. I don’t want to do that before I know him better though, and I want to introduce a man gradually to the kids.

    So what he probably is saying to me, is that he is keeping his options open. I feel a bit stuck, I want to be with him really, but the kids come first as I see it.

    Then I feel jealous since he has so many girlfriends which he is so “friendly” with.

    I must admit that I feel a bit stupid when I see what I write, since much of the problem is ME, but at this point I really don’t know what to do with this situation…

  291.  #291Bopi on May 25, 2012 at 2:12 am

    And by the way, I HAVE read Rori’s programme, but as I said, I feel that many things get so much more complicated when kids are involved.

    I was at a stage in life where I wasn’t really looking for someone, but then suddenly this man stood in front of me and made such an impression of me! It was a strange situation. I was out with my twin girls in the hotel where we lived, and he approached us and were witty with the girls. We had great laughs, and I just wondered who this man was approaching us in this way. I felt that he wasn’t really flirting, just trying to be nice. But my daughter meant that he was looking at me all the time. That was two years ago. I was in a divorce situation that time, so taken that in mind, I wasn’t looking for any man.

    Well, we developed a kind of contact anyway, and he understood my situation and said he wanted to be my friend. He has encouraged me a lot, and I have fallen totally in love with him because of his concern and kindness. But now HE is hesitating and wants to keep his options open apparently…

    My God, what a mess!

  292.  #292Paige on June 20, 2012 at 11:50 am

    Hi everyone,
    I’ve only just seen this website, but looking at all your comments, I just wanted to say that I think its genuinely lovely how you’re all there for each other, and to let you all know that I reckon your comments are helping so many people 🙂

  293.  #293Angel on February 22, 2013 at 8:37 am

    I’m so frustrated!!!
    I’m married.
    He seems so secretive about the littlest dumbest things. It maybe nothing big, but I feel left out. I’m trying to act like I dont care, but it eats at me. I’ve tried to tell him how I feel, only to have him say I’m being intrusive. I try to ask about his day and he tells me he doesnt want to relive it. I’ve tried to be secretive like him, not tell him who texted me, where I went during the day, who I met with, when he knows I went out, just not where or with who, so that maybe he will see how it feels and he says he doesn’t need to know.
    I do not think he’s cheating. But I hate that he changes his tone and personality whenever it comes to females and how he interacts with them. When I ask him about it and why it happens, he says its all in my mind, that I need help and that he doesn’t care about what other females look like or that. I wish he would be as kind and change his voice when he talks to me. He mainly seems angry, angry tone, ignores or I am just to do his errands and work for him” dinner, laundry and all. I’ve read so mych of w hat Rory has said to do and I’m still left feeling like he’s not that into me anymore, just a convience, and not close enough for him to share his day or calls with me.

  294.  #294Rori Raye on February 22, 2013 at 10:14 am

    Angel – This is complex and you deserve more answers than I can give you here. 1. Have you worked with the ebook and other programs? Start there, see what happens when you change your language and body language and learn some emotional skills you may not have mastered right now…

    2. Get HAPPY! Circular Date (it’s not about dating…) and find ways to make yourself happy outside of him.

    3. Get very clear on the specifics of what you want from him, and start asking for those specifics with the right, negotiating language.

    Much more – private coaching is always an option.

    If he’s cheating, or having an emotional affair…it will come to light as you do these other things, and then you’ll have more ability to talk. Love, Rori