When It’s Only A Fantasy But It Still Feels Real

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fragileHere’s a powerful – and powerfully upsetting – letter from Warrior Girl. I’ve been about as tough as I’ve ever been. I know Warrior would appreciate any of your comments and help with this – including if you don’t agree with me…

“Rori, I have experienced a lot of personal tragedy and loss in my life over the last few years, and after having a nasty miscarriage, last spring, I became very depressed and withdrawn. Into this darkness, sailed A. who I met playing an on-line game. The attraction was instant and we started to spend hours talking daily. Soon, this on-line affair ratcheted up several notches and things became pretty hot.

I had never had a very fulfilling physical relationship with my husband and we’d grown apart over the years, whereas A. pushed all the right buttons mentally, physically, emotionally. Within weeks, I was ready to leave my husband for him. I was crazy in love.

Slight snag though…he had a wife and children and lived on the other side of the world!
Over the months, this long-distance affair continued. We planned to meet, but then the inevitable. Our spouses found out. I was ready to leave mine anyway, but he wasn’t. He loved his wife and couldn’t work out how he could love two women, although he said he did love me – and even admitted that to his wife.

So we went back to being just friends and focusing on that rather than sexual/emotional aspects of our relationship.
Before long, we slid back into the passion, skype-ing, cyber stuff etc etc. And every so often, he’d say, let’s stop this, I feel guilty etc. And we would and then we’d just keep on falling back into it like magnets. All the time, I’m hoping he’ll love me enough to be with me and me alone. He seems to have a horrible relationship with his wife (don’t they always! yeah, right!) I’m thinking about him constantly, mooning over him like a love sick child.

Then last night we fought – it’s been getting hot again between us for the last few weeks. We’d been talking again about meeting up, so I said, well are we going to or what? Because it’s the only way we’ll ever know if what we feel is real. He’s said this himself before.

Ok, I went on and on about it a bit much, trying to persuade him I guess, because my husband is also at the point where he says I should go so we can both move on with our lives. A.s response was classic: But I love my wife!

So then I asked him why he’d been messing about with me for the last year in that case. He replied by saying, good point, goodbye. Just as callous as that, even though he knows what we have both been through together.

I know he is toxic – I did the test and boy, is he high in toxicity. But it hurts still. My marriage is in tatters, my mental and physical health is wrecked over the last few months. I just spent the whole day in bed crying. We have “broken up” before, but we find our way back to each other within a short time. He has never before said goodbye with such finality.

You might wonder why I bother with such a man. Furthermore, when I tell you that he is unemployed, overweight, with many health issues. But we connected deeply, we say things at the same time, we think the same way about so many things, we laugh and laugh for hours and we have opened up to each other deeply in a way that neither of us have to other people. There is a strong physical, emotional and spiritual attraction there, that makes all common sense seem nonsense.

I feel so lost right now 🙁 I don’t want to lose him from my life, but I know that unless he is available and free to be with me, he’s just going to keep on hurting me over and over.

I know I’d be best to go cold turkey, cut him off….he might have already done that….he sure sounded mad in his last message. Mad because I’d made him feel guilty. Mad because I’d insulted his marriage by questioning his love for his wife. Mad because I dared to ask for something he wasn’t prepared to give.

I know, I’d be mad to ever talk to him again, right? But it just hurts sooooooo much 🙁 Warrior Girl”

My Answer:

Warrior Girl – First – I want to wrap my arms around you and give you the biggest hug and just send love to you.

I’m so sorry for the miscarriage – and I believe the emotions around this are still vastly unresolved for you and helping you NOT think clearly.

Next – I’m going to be very tough on you here, because I don’t think anyone else has. Please don’t read if you don’t want to hear it:

Girl – I can’t imagine WHAT you’re thinking, and what you’ve BEEN thinking here.

First – there is NO such thing as ANY kind of relationship, or the love you describe with a person you’ve never met.

Period. It’s a crush, a fantasy, all imaginary. I don’t care if you can smell through skype, there’s absolutely nothing real about it.

Whatever you’ve experienced in your life that could make you believe that this is not so – that this is any more than a fantasy – and that somehow it’s okay to have this kind of active and emotional fantasy with someone and still stay married to someone else, and that it’s okay for this man to do the same…that interpretation of experience has no connection to my world, or the world I want for you.

The only place I would suggest to start is with yourself and your marriage, and to start asking questions of yourself – and to get professional coaching help to do that if you’d like.

Questions like:

Why am I still married if I’m this unhappy?

Why, if I want to have an affair, am I not making myself available to real men who might actually be able to touch my body?

Why am I not working on my marriage to improve it?

What makes me think all I deserve is this fantasy over years that has made me feel horrible and miserable?

Why do I think it’s okay to get in the middle of another woman’s marriage? (I’m not talking “ethically” or “morally” – though those figure in the back of your mind and your subconscious.)

Is it possible for me to ever begin to respect my husband? And myself?

And more questions.

You are focused on all the wrong things – starting with this man.

Love, Rori

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  1.  #1Mercedes on April 18, 2013 at 8:43 am

    Wow…Warrior Girl…I’m completely with Rori on this one. I don’t even know what to say. I would suggest starting with couples counseling for you and your husband and individual counseling for yourself with someone who can help you with self esteem and self love.

    Much Love,

  2.  #2Femininewoman on April 18, 2013 at 8:44 am


  3.  #3Virginia on April 18, 2013 at 8:48 am

    I couldn’t agree with Rori more, your obsession with this man has created emotional chaos in your life. That’s not what true love feels like!

    You blame yourself for pushing too hard but that is how he controls you and the situation — by making you feel wrong. You need to “unplug” from this man completely so you can gain perspective on how much you’re hurting and disrespecting both yourself and your husband. I know how much it hurts to get completely lost in a man, but the only way to find yourself again is to take responsibility for your part, face the truth and find a way to love yourself again. I’m sending you lots of hugs!

  4.  #4Femininewoman on April 18, 2013 at 9:01 am

    Warrior Girl what jumped out at me was “he’s just going to keep on hurting me over and over”.

    It seems to me that you are doing this to yourself. Taking the victim position rather than working to put your fabulous self out in the world where real men can find you. Can you imagine if you find a real man with all positives including a reverse of all the negatives that you have written about this guy? “he is unemployed, overweight, with many health issues”. Who knows what is going on in his mind about these issues. He might just be being realistic and enjoying as much of the life that he still has, as he possibly can.

  5.  #5sophie on April 18, 2013 at 9:48 am

    I liked what Rori said about the miscarriage maybe having an effect/unresolved emotions – i think sometimes we can get into situations cos we just don’t realise how vulnerable we are

  6.  #6April Rose on April 18, 2013 at 10:22 am

    I was reading an e-mail of Rori’s recently, and what screamed out at me was this:
    It’s not HIM you want, it’s a REAL RELATIONSHIP.

    Warrior Girl, do you feel anywhere near ready for a real relationship?

  7.  #7Daria on April 18, 2013 at 10:27 am

    livin in the storm

  8.  #8April Rose on April 18, 2013 at 10:28 am

    hello Daria

  9.  #9Femininewoman on April 18, 2013 at 10:30 am

    Believe it or not April Rose, I recently re-read that email and acknowledged that I had some internal resistance to even thinking that way.

  10.  #10April Rose on April 18, 2013 at 10:33 am

    FW, it helps me to think that way. because I find so much to like in every man. Intending to create a real relationship makes it easier for me to intuit which men are capable.

  11.  #11April Rose on April 18, 2013 at 10:35 am

    What values do you need to have in common, in order to creat a real relationship?

    Making time for each other is one of mine.

  12.  #12Rori Raye on April 18, 2013 at 10:37 am

    Virginia! Hey, all – This is Virginia Clark, my best friend and amazing coach! Her book – It’s Never Too Late To Marry – is HUGE, bold – totally fantastic and helpful (there’s no overlap with me, we work in completely different ways, and her story (it’s in the book) is mesmerizing and SO identifiable. Click on her name to get to her site… Love, Rori

  13.  #13Indigo on April 18, 2013 at 10:42 am

    Warrior Girl,

    What Rori is saying could not be more true: it is just not real if you haven’t met. It just doesn’t exist.

    Be thankful actually that you did not meet, because even as a real-life relationship, this would be more or less doomed, and it would be much more painful.

    Let it go. And give yourself permission to be happy again.

  14.  #14Jessie1000 on April 18, 2013 at 10:42 am

    Im probably too subversive but a piece of paper is just a piece of paper. Marriage today is garbage. I have been married 3 times, its all crap. Follow your heart, you cant be owned by any man…lol I left my husband, kicked him out and he was horrible and abusive and my next man was the first guy that came along…literally…I was fat, out of shape, just had a baby…my son was 2 months old and we fell in love instantly!! he was my soulmate! For all the things my stupid husband HATED about me, were all the things that my new man loved about me…both had such supremely different personalities. SO, I say, follow your heart, pick up and go, there is only one thing worse than being single and that is being with the wrong guy. Your new loved one is out there, go get him. HA HA sorry, I love men, I love marriage, I love weddings, but no one owns my soul. Ever. I own me. If you make me happy, Im there, if not, IM OUT. Kisses girls
    Hope Im not offensive….

  15.  #15April Rose on April 18, 2013 at 11:00 am

    Hi Jessie! Great to see you posting. I missed you (-:

  16.  #16April Rose on April 18, 2013 at 11:01 am

    I miss Glowstix, Ruth, and Tam, Silver Moonbeam, Laughing Goddess, Starla, bloom-ing and Zara

  17.  #17Jessie1000 on April 18, 2013 at 11:06 am

    Hi sweety, we need some updates from everyone!

  18.  #18Elsie on April 18, 2013 at 12:38 pm

    Ok from the other thread I just wanted to say that I really appreciate Zia and Indigo and Dominique talking about how I am emotionally sensitive. I really do think that “sitting” on my feelings for a while is good – because for me I cant really “trust” that I”m not just being a firecracker, or if it is really something that I am upset about. I look back sometimes and think – wow, WHY was I upset about that? Thats insane. LOL.

    Also – I loved the discussion between Dominique and Mercedes and I got a lot out of it.

    I think at the end of the day – we all have these tools, and what we choose to make out of these tools is unique to each of us – our own masterpieces that uniquely represent us and how we want to live our lives and relationships. So, there is no wrong answer – only ways that work for us, and ways that dont. We have to try them out to figure it out. 🙂

    On my personal front, I have to tell you that these tools from Rori and Dominique are unbelievable – along with Queens Code. My world and my relationship is really doing well. I sort of feel like have hit a “sweet spot” like you do on the tennis racquet where its just perfect. You dont have to use much effort, but wow, does it fly!!!!

  19.  #19Femininewoman on April 18, 2013 at 1:05 pm

    I feel a bit confused. Warrior Girl says above that he pushed the right buttons, physically. I am wondering if this means that they actually met up and had some physical aspect to the relationship, how can it be considered imaginary?

    Am I misunderstanding something?

  20.  #20Linda G on April 18, 2013 at 2:04 pm

    I have had this seemingly love connection with a man I too met online. What I learned was that I not only wanted it so much to be true, but that this fantasy love was easier than a real guy I could actually and would have to, actually meet and get to know.
    It was an escape and a way at first to feel hopeful, but really it stopped me from the material.

  21.  #21Mercedes on April 18, 2013 at 2:14 pm

    Leaving in 45 minutes for a long (once again technology free) weekend.

    I’m going to Wisconsin with J and won’t be back until Sunday night. It’s cold there right now and I don’t have a nice coat anymore. I ripped the sleeve on mine after I moved to TX and haven’t bought one since because I rarely need it here. When I go back home, I don’t need a “nice” coat so much as a sporty kind of coat and I have those (plus, if push came to shove, I have nice coats in storage there).

    Now…I don’t really know how I’m going to handle this. I’m sure there is not a single store in Houston selling nice winter coats in April. I feel silly for not having a plan for this. I think I’m going to take a throw blanket…a nice big “sweater” looking throw blanket…and pretend it is a shawl. If I fold it right, nobody will ever know….right…??? lol

    Much Love,

  22.  #22Elsie on April 18, 2013 at 2:15 pm

    An online (imaginary) relationship allows you to project onto the other person anything you want. They can become (and do) anything you want them to be. They seem perfect because they aren’t real.

    I know because I dated (long long ago before facebook, etc.) men from overseas. They flew to see me. It never ended up the way we thought. They weren’t bad people at all. Its just that it wasnt real. We didnt part on bad terms at all – its just amazing how things are so different in real life.

    Life is hard. Relationships are hard. They can be wonderful – but its BECAUSE they are hard work and you are doing the work together.

  23.  #23Elsie on April 18, 2013 at 2:16 pm

    @Mercedes – I’m sure that Kohls or something is still selling? If not, just wait until you get there – you will find one there right away. Stores in the midwest are still selling them. 🙂

    Have FUN this weekend!!!!!

  24.  #24Mercedes on April 18, 2013 at 2:20 pm

    Elsie: That’s one thought I had…I can just buy one there (no…there aren’t any here. They have been moved out to make way for rows and rows of swim suits). The thing I hate about doing it there is that we are getting a ride from the airport to the resort. I hate putting people out and having them stop so I can go shopping while they wait for me. It feels really awkward to ask that.

    So…I’m thinking I can find one in the airport or at the resort…I don’t know. Maybe we’ll just stay inside the whole time! haha! If I do the blanket thing I’ll post a pic on my blog…just so you will all be able to see that I hate being cold so much I will actually wear a blanket in public in order to stay warm. 🙂

    Much Love,

  25.  #25Elsie on April 18, 2013 at 2:36 pm

    @Mercedes – It sounds like you should have taken a romantic trip south instead of north for a resort !!!! haha!!!!

  26.  #26Mercedes on April 18, 2013 at 2:39 pm

    Elsie: You can’t even imagine how much I agree with your thoughts on vacation venues. 🙂 This is a family thing (J’s family) and the decision to go was made about a week or so ago. Not a lot of time for planning it out or convincing him we should go back to Belize instead! lol

    Much Love,

  27.  #27Elsie on April 18, 2013 at 2:47 pm

    LOL – well have fun anyway – and dream of Belize….or Tahiti….or Bora Bora……

  28.  #28BeLoved on April 18, 2013 at 4:43 pm

    Mercedes – Burlington Coat Factory should have a good selection, also thrift stores. I’ve seen gorgeous coats at even the ratty stores in 5th ward, so I imagine out your way would be even better.

  29.  #29Libelula on April 18, 2013 at 5:08 pm

    Mercedes: You’re assuming that you would be the only one wanting to stop at a Kohl’s. There may be others who need warm gear too. Have fun!

  30.  #30Emerson on April 18, 2013 at 10:24 pm

    Hi sirens!
    Wow this is so sad. Warrior is doing what lots I women do on a smaller scale. We imagine something is more than it is. Also it’s easy to “connect” on all those levels and feel magical when there are no bills or screaming kids around. It’s not real life.

    I have hit a dry spell in my love life. I said I was taking a break from dating and the powers that be up above sure heard me.

    Everyone has poofed. I don’t really want to take a break anymore. I want to start dating again. I am ready to find someone special and surrender to love. Letting to of control.
    Looking to find my identity again. I’ve been feeling scattered.

    In other news, I was offered an old job back today. My old boss texted me. I have no idea what I want to do. I will ponder…

  31.  #31Emerson on April 18, 2013 at 10:30 pm

    I miss the sides of me that have neglected for so long….my love for art and culture… My love for travel and literature…

    I am not just one cookie cutter… There are many sides to me..

    I love me…
    I’m such an interesting person! Yay me!

    I’m fun and also helpful. I know lots of things I can share with others. I miss the younger version of me, but I’m still me!

  32.  #32Indigo on April 18, 2013 at 10:36 pm

    Beloved, I am so happy for you.

  33.  #33janie baby on April 18, 2013 at 10:48 pm

    I posted this in the previous thread, but I didn’t realize there was a new thread!
    “Dominique and other ladies,
    I have a question about easing anxiety in a relationship. I don’t know why I feel it sometimes, but I feel really dependent on my guy sleeping over at my place. Not on the weekends, but he usually sleeps over Sunday-Thursday. Before it was a fun thing and if he didn’t come one night after work (he works in the nightclub industry so gets off around 2 am) it was whatever for me. Now though, I get anxious. Last night he called me saying since he’s really tired he might just go home and i said noo comeee and he said ok i’ll come and it was fine and when he came i told him how i feel anxious when he’s not here and i’m scared of getting attached and he said “well i’m not going anywhere so you shouldnt be scared. maybe you’re insecure but all i can do is keep loving you”

    which was extremly sweet. he said he was coming tonight but i know today he had to work two shifts so i don’t know if he’ll be extra tired around 3 30 am or 4.. and i am starting to feel anxious about it??

    so ridiculous right??

    i’ll even fall asleep and wake up naturally around that time and feel uneasy until he’s here…

    Hmm. WHat’s going on here? How do I deal with this?”

  34.  #34Syreena on April 19, 2013 at 4:12 am

    19: Femininewoman says:

    “I feel a bit confused. Warrior Girl says above that he pushed the right buttons, physically. I am wondering if this means that they actually met up and had some physical aspect to the relationship, how can it be considered imaginary?

    Am I misunderstanding something?”

    I interpreted that she mean’t cybersex.

    It would feel good to know if this is what she meant.
    And what Roris or Virginias thoughts are on that. As if two people are talking and connecting on line in a emotional way and then have cybersex does a bond get formed. Feel curious about that.

  35.  #35Zia on April 19, 2013 at 6:08 am

    Wow. So last night I sent a text to my ex, not asking him for anything, not explaining anything, just telling him something that had been on my mind. I didn’t try and control any outcome and had no expectations.

    And…. I was surprised. I was honestly expecting either no response or an angry response, and instead I got something sincere, honest, and from the heart. It was lovely. I don’t have any further expectations (such as him and I getting back together).. but I’m just taking the moment and appreciating it for what it is and then keep moving forward focusing on me. I actually feel ok today about letting go and just trusting that things will be ok whatever happens in my life right now.

  36.  #36Femininewoman on April 19, 2013 at 6:11 am

    Syreena are we fooling ourselves? Now I feel silly for asking but what is cybersex?

  37.  #37Vi on April 19, 2013 at 6:30 am

    This post feels so timely. I find myself in a fantasy world after my ex contacted me yesterday after several years. I’ve been feeling nostalgic since. Finding myself feeling the sweetest feelings I felt when we were together.. it feels so difficult to believe there was time I felt tired of him.. and upset.. I feel as if bad feelings never happened. What are the benefits for me her? Well.. it helps me feel detached from the reality with MH a little and take things less personal…I feel more relaxed around him, this happy fantasy feels like a safe place to be in.. thank you Vi for noticing.. I feel a little panicky right now.. but I’m with you no matter what and I love you..

  38.  #38Vi on April 19, 2013 at 6:49 am

    Okay I think I need even more happy feelings in reality to support mysrlf with.

  39.  #39Vi on April 19, 2013 at 7:05 am

    I think I may want to get back to Dominique’s Thankfulness journal tool..

  40.  #40BeLoved on April 19, 2013 at 9:24 am

    janie baby, humans are creatures of habit.
    If it were me, I would see it as a call to care for my feelings and ask myself, what do I need to care for those feelings?

    Do I need advance notice when he isn’t going to come over? Would it help if he sent me a text or a phone call if he knew he wasn’t coming? What do I need to care for those feelings?

    I imagine I might craft an FM – for me what might be true is, “It feels so good to have you in my bed, and I notice I feel anxious when I’m not sure if you are going to spend the night. I trust you love me, I respect you need to care for yourself, and I don’t want to feel freaked out and insecure if you are too tired tired to come over, I’m not sure what to do, what do you think?”

    Men LOVE it when we need their help, and in my experience, often come up with great solutions that I never would have thought of, or, I might have thought of but it makes them feel so good and protective to come up with themselves, it feels very cooperative and partnering to do it this way. He sounds like a really good guy who cares for you a lot who would be more than happy to find a way for you to feel more comfortable, if you let him know what is going on.

  41.  #41seahorse on April 19, 2013 at 10:23 am

    Warrior girl- Run, don’t walk, to a coach, therapist, Rori or Dominque. Get help quick sweet lady. You matter. Do what Rori says. The help is there, reach out and ask. You are worth it, you matter. My own experience is triggering the daylights out of me right now.

  42.  #42seahorse on April 19, 2013 at 10:38 am

    Okay,so. After I moved out, it was eight months later, and my very first boyfriend found me on facebook. I don’t do a lot of facebook and it was ‘nice’ to hear from him. Ohhhhhhhh…. breathing. I believed him, I wanted to. I accept and there are no do overs. It didn’t last long, the voices were so loud. Intuition and voices. I doubted myself and didn’t listen. Did it anyway.
    Damn!!!!! Shaking from anger Feeling it………She’s angry for me not listening…. Aren’t you gonna listen from now Seahorse?? Stop doubting what you feel!!!! I love you!!!!
    I love me too all of me. And that’s what I told him. I want to matter. And that is what opened it all up. I knew in my mind what I should do, it was the moment and being right there that it changed. I matter. I love me. I matter just because I am here. So simple. So, he didn’t get it for a while. Texts were coming in. i erased and didn’t read………… The last one I did and I thanked him for teaching me how to make soup, that I am thankful for remembering what it is to be touched and made love to, and thank you for the laughter. Then I said, now leave me alone this feels horrible I don’t like it. So ………….. he did. And I have fifty pounds of guilt I am working through and getting to the good stuff in me. The anger is freeing. I’m not crazy I am beautiful and I MATTER!!!!!!! and forgivness forgivness for me for all. Peace The voice is saying chin up sweetheart chin up I love you

  43.  #43seahorse on April 19, 2013 at 10:41 am

    I don;t like facebook it feels invasive

  44.  #44Dominique on April 19, 2013 at 10:41 am

    Elsie – 18 – “Life is hard. Relationships are hard.”

    Why would you believe this Elsie? I think life is easy.I think relationship is easy. It’s the work on self which CAN feel hard though when you can shift your thinking around this to something which looks like – all of my challenges feel SO exciting, for I get to opportunity to grow and blossom even more beautifully – your perspective changes, how you feel shifts, everything transforms, feels lighter, EASIER.


  45.  #45Dominique on April 19, 2013 at 10:44 am

    Emerson – 31 – No need to miss any of those sides of yourself. Go get them, for these things are part of your soul. 🙂


  46.  #46Dominique on April 19, 2013 at 10:48 am

    janie – 33 – I responded on the previous thread.


  47.  #47Dominique on April 19, 2013 at 10:50 am

    Syreena – 34 – A bond may form, but it would still be imaginary. There is no REAL relationship without a face to face, able to touch, smell, feel interaction.


  48.  #48prplpsn28 on April 19, 2013 at 10:50 am

    Still nothing from him 🙁 This is hard. Tried watching some of the programs but can’t concentrate. Sad. Anxious. Don’t like these feelings. Ugh!

  49.  #49Dominique on April 19, 2013 at 10:56 am

    Vi – 39 – Putting down on paper, taking the time to notice and acknowledge how MANY incredible things you really DO have the feel thankful for really shifts your mood. We tend to focus on what doesn’t feel good, and it tends to grow out of proportion within us to what really is. I go back to doing this anytime I find myself feeling low, and then I get to see how much more there is to feel thankful for than there is to feel badly about. Everything starts to look better, brighter, more beautiful. And you know what, it really is. LIFE IS BEAUTIFUL. LOVE IS BEAUTIFUL. And you get to feel this anytime you want because YOU ARE LOVE.


  50.  #50seahorse on April 19, 2013 at 11:01 am

    I did what was done to me. And the guilt was tremendous. I couldn’t do it anymore. Anxiety got bad and then I ate and no relief was to be found. Even afterwards it was there. GUILT. I did wrong it hurt myself. I did that. On my knees and prayed and prayed. And was answered. Love is the answer. The only answer. For everything. Love. Down under deeper and deeper I go and find the answering love that was always there. Just, I didn’t know. I do know and it feels free, infinity. I love me and I’m okay. I will always be okay now.

  51.  #51prplpsn28 on April 19, 2013 at 11:01 am

    And tonight is the classmate gathering that we were supposed to go to together. I have made plans to go anyway with a girlfriend. Will be hard to keep my mind off of him but will try my best.

  52.  #52Dominique on April 19, 2013 at 11:02 am

    Big hugs Purple. 🙁

    I feared this for you. Yet one thing which may soothe you a little bit is the difference between your time as a woman and boytime. His won’t look anything like yours.

    Is there anyone you can go be with, a girlfriend? Is there something fun you can do? Something feel good you can for yourself?


  53.  #53seahorse on April 19, 2013 at 11:02 am

    Thank you

  54.  #54Dominique on April 19, 2013 at 11:04 am

    YAY you Purple. You CAN do this. 🙂


  55.  #55Syreena on April 19, 2013 at 11:22 am


    “People consider their online sexual relationships as real, as they experience psychological states similar to those typically elicited by offline relationships. Accordingly, cybersex is not merely a conversation about sex, but is a form of sexual encounter itself; it involves experiences typical of sexual encounters, such as masturbation, sexual arousal, satisfaction, and orgasm. Indeed, people consider cybersex to have a high degree of psychological reality. However, many of them do not consider it to be morally real-at least not as real as offline affairs. One survey found that over 60 percent of people having cybersex do not consider it to be infidelity. Many of them believe cybersex to be similar to pornography; it is an extension of fantasy, keeping them from physically being with other people. Consider the following statement from a 41-year-old married man: “My wife doesn’t care if I have relationships (even sexual) on the Internet. It’s like it’s not real. I can get away with it. But I’m sure she’d get upset if we were to meet for a drink or something” (all citations are from Love Online).”

    Thanks FW and Dominique.
    What are your thoughts?

  56.  #56prplpsn28 on April 19, 2013 at 11:29 am

    @ Dominique…Thanks for the hugs 🙂 And he just sent me a text. He must be on lunch break. He didn’t get home until the wee hours of the morning. Sent me a pic of the car he was hauling lol. Nothings been said yet about the get together tonight yet. But at least I heard from him 🙂

  57.  #57Dominique on April 19, 2013 at 11:29 am

    Ouch. Though I stand by my thought that a cyber-relationship is not real, and in some respects cyber-sex is not real, it IS REAL in the minds and bodies of those participating.

    I consider it cheating. K would consider it cheating.

    I don’t think it’s anything like porn. There’s a clear and distinct anonymity to porn. Not so with cybersex.


  58.  #58Femininewoman on April 19, 2013 at 11:34 am


  59.  #59Dominique on April 19, 2013 at 11:41 am

    I agree FW, I agree. 🙁


  60.  #60Syreena on April 19, 2013 at 11:51 am

    Thanks for your comments FW. There is also a lot of porn cybersexwebcam stuff out there with strangers and/or sexworkers. This is what many porn stars do aswell as there normal porn to stay in work.

    The only way I can see this would be ok to me is with my real life lover.Otherwise I agree Yuck.

  61.  #61Syreena on April 19, 2013 at 11:55 am

    And Dominique.

  62.  #62Senior Lady Vibe on April 19, 2013 at 1:12 pm

    @21: Mercedes

    It’s April so you could escape from wearing a “winter coat.” You could instead use a buttoned up light weight cardigan sweater with a suit blazer, or a raincoat, or a short sporty poplin jacket with a traditional (think Hermes) or long colorful scarf.


  63.  #63Smile on April 19, 2013 at 1:40 pm

    Ug ((me)) I didn’t give two thoughts to him not inviting me out tonight for his bday as it’s far away, I’m going out with his friends here on Sunday. Tonight he texed and said he didn’t know why he hadn’t invited me he would have liked to have shown me off. I had plans tonight anyway which is why I didn’t give it much attention and now he’s said it I’m like yeh I would have loved to have gone. He’s put pics on fb. His friends have their girlfriends there. It’s making me a little ug 🙁

  64.  #64Smile on April 19, 2013 at 2:31 pm

    My fears are completely unfounded… Negative gremlins please swiftly move on!!!!

  65.  #65Femininewoman on April 19, 2013 at 2:33 pm

    Smile I see a lot in this experience to be grateful for. He now knows that you are a Goddes who wont bother herself nagging him about giving up his freedom, his space or his personal choice for her because you are comfortable in your skin and life. He was supposed to be enjoying himself with his friends but he was spending some of the time missing you. For all you know his friends might have been giving him a hard time about it and caused him to feel out of place. Girl you have a lot to tease him about. You ARE All That.

  66.  #66Femininewoman on April 19, 2013 at 2:36 pm

    Now he has to kneel at your shrine to beg forgiveness

  67.  #67Arachne on April 19, 2013 at 2:38 pm

    Dear Sirens,

    Here I am again, feeling compelled to comment because this post (and some of the comments) triggered me SO frigging much. I feel triggered, and even a little angry. It’s ok, I will let it pass.

    FW, Syreena and Dominique – I’m not saying it to blame you, it’s not your fault that I was triggered, and of course you have the right to your opinion. But your disgust made me feel extremely… defensive. (I’m trying to avoid the first adjectives that came to my mind: “hurt” and “attached”. It would be unfair to use them with you, women as well as men, because you didn’t attach or hurt me, I was just triggered and got defensive – phew, practicing, practicing…)

    So, what am I feeling angry and defensive for? Cybersex. I admit, and I’m not even feeling embarrassed about admitting it: I have practiced it for a long time, and still do. I’ve tried three varieties: solely text-based, text + video, and text + avatar animation. Cybersex, in and of itself, feels wonderful, and can make a woman feel (or at least it makes me feel) desired, beautiful, appreciated, worthwhile. Even if there is no physical contact and I’m not even touching myself, it can still feel incredibly satisfying on a “mental sexual” level. And having several cyber-partner to have occasional online encounters with is, I believe, great for keeping me sane and reminding me that even if a particular real-life guy does not find me attractive, these other guys do, and so will many other men, both online and offline. I’m very much externally-driven, and seeing that I can inflame desire in many men, in a safe, std-free online environment is a very useful way for me to get this need met: the need for sex and (this might sound silly) to be objectified and reduced to a target for sexual desire (after a teenage when I was convinced of my own unattractiveness, this is THERAPY for me).

    The problem that Warrior Girl has, and that I have experienced as well, is not cybersex, but a cyber-relationship. Here, I agree (NOW!) with Rori and all of you: this is toxic and self-destructive and can’t end well. Because, on an exclusive, frequent basis, we get attached. (If I could, I’d do some research to prove that the same attachment sex hormones that get released during physical sex, are still released during cybersex. At least I’ve felt it on myself). It depends on what kind of “online game” Warrior Girl is playing – if it’s not a game but a “virtual world” like Second Life or Red Light Center or 3Dchat (where your animated avatars can interact in a very realistic way, including having sex), then it can feel incredibly life-like. People retreat to this imaginary worlds to escape real-life problems, instead of facing them. I’ve been there too, I can relate and I feel very empathetic.

    I have had two “virtual relationships”, I can tell you about them, and how lucky I was about the second one. But what I needed to share was this: cybersex in itself is great and probably healthy, it’s cyber-relationships that are toxic. My good thoughts go out to Warrior Girl, hopefully she will turn towards her marriage and her real emotional problems!

  68.  #68prplpsn28 on April 19, 2013 at 2:53 pm

    I’m curious. Any input when it comes to facebook? My issue….H has me blocked from seeing posts on his. The only thing I can see are pictures that he himself has posted. Nothing else. We had a talk about this a couple months ago and he won’t budge on it. He says that everyone but his immediate family is set up that way. I know it’s “just” Facebook but it really bothers me. Gives me the impression he has something to hide. How do I bring it up to him again without seeming needy and untrusting. I have always trusted him but this has me doubting.

    And I think this past weekends argument and no contact for a few days has just got me thinking about things. Am hoping to get together with him soon to resolve our argument and would like to bring this up to.

    Dominique? Anyone? Any input?

  69.  #69Smile on April 19, 2013 at 3:00 pm

    Thanks FW! Your words feel reassuring,

    I am so comfy in my skin yes yes yes, I’m the prize!!!!
    I just replied to him that I so would have loved to have gone and I’ll look forward to next time, as he said that was a definate. Then I went out and had my own fun.

    When I saw him yesterday he was telling me how when he met with his family he must have talked about me for a good 4hours!

  70.  #70Senior Lady Vibe on April 19, 2013 at 3:01 pm

    @67: Arachne says:
    “…(If I could, I’d do some research to prove that the same attachment sex hormones that get released during physical sex, are still released during cybersex. At least I’ve felt it on myself)…”

    I’ll save you the time. Yes, it’s not only possible but it happens all the time. It doesn’t even depend upon the “kind of game.” It’s a result of stimulation in the brain, the most important erogenous zone.


  71.  #71Smile on April 19, 2013 at 3:08 pm

    Here’s a bit from rori about fb…

    “Do NOT ask him anything!!!

    Unfriending you is about the stupidest, most immature, unmanly thing a guy can do. Drop him!!!

    Sincerely, Rori Raye”

    “A man who uses facebook to shut you out is a man who can’t talk.  It’s like the bad father who slams the door on you.

    Get rid of any man who shuts you out. Period.

    Love, Rori”

  72.  #72Senior Lady Vibe on April 19, 2013 at 3:09 pm

    @68: prplpsn28 says:
    I’m curious. Any input when it comes to facebook? My issue….H has me blocked from seeing posts on his. The only thing I can see are pictures that he himself has posted. Nothing else.

    Please don’t nag this man about his Facebook. It’s his. Attempting to control his interactions with his family and close friends is aggressive and maybe even stalker-like.

    If he has suddenly “unfriended” you or restricted you to lesser access, then perhaps ask why as a way of learning more about him. Then either accept his decision or direct your attention to the other men in your life.


  73.  #73Smile on April 19, 2013 at 3:13 pm

    Aw he just said he’s missing me 🙂 big smiles

  74.  #74prplpsn28 on April 19, 2013 at 3:15 pm

    I know fb is just stupid all around but he hasn’t unfriended me. I’ve been there since we met. He has changed his security settings. ?? Idk

  75.  #75janie baby on April 19, 2013 at 3:16 pm

    Thank you Dominique and Beloved!

    Yes, I was stressing unnecessarily, and I called at 2 am saying “where are youu?”
    and he said “i’m on my way now” and sure enough he came..

    it’s assumed he sleeps over usually monday-thursday night and its rare that he’ll call and tell me he’s too tired to make the trek over here because he lives right next to his work…

    either way it’s useless for me to be anxious about it. either he’s gonna come or he ain’t haha

    Yes, maybe I’ll use an FM like that… I’m trying to see the good.

    Even this morning he was tired and didn’t initiate sex but instead of pouting i got ready and excited to go have breakfast outside in the sun, and then he started wanting to kiss me and we laughed alot this morning..

    I feel good. I just want a more consistent practice of calming the negative voices. You’re so right Dominique. Sometimes, I find myself withdrawing or trying to sabotage. It’s very scary getting close to someone.


  76.  #76Smile on April 19, 2013 at 3:18 pm

    I’m sorry it feels like he’s shutting you out.

    “A man who uses facebook to shut you out is a man who can’t talk.  It’s like the bad father who slams the door on you.

    Get rid of any man who shuts you out. Period.

    Love, Rori”

  77.  #77BeLoved on April 19, 2013 at 3:38 pm

    Purple, I would feel very very unsettled and mistrustful in that situation.
    I was just talking to T about how open he has always been – once, shortly after we started dating, I went through his emails while he was sleeping. There wasn’t a single thing in there that he hadn’t been explicitly honest and frank and open with me about, there were NO surprises. I felt horrible, confessed, and never felt the need to do it again. I personally couldn’t feel trust if I couldn’t at least see what is on his FB page, and I can’t surrender to a man I can’t trust.

    I wouldn’t nag him about it, though, especially if there has already been a discussion. I would just notice how it makes me feel, tally it with everything else I experience with him, and think about whether it works for me.

  78.  #78Dominique on April 19, 2013 at 3:45 pm

    Arachne – I haven’t finished reading your comment, yet I want to jump in and apologize for not being clear. It can be difficult in this kind of forum to do so, especially when my little brain is thinking along one track.

    Between two consenting adults, I don’t think there is anything wrong at all with cybersex. I’ve had it with my man for example.

    Though even if one were to engage in this with someone you’ve never met, as long as NO ONE else is being hurt around this (my feelings around this), then have at it, enjoy, have fun. I love sex, and I think if more people were having more enjoyable sex, there might very well be fewer problems in the world though that’s topic for a whole other discussion.

    Where the problem comes in for me is when this is going on outside of a committed relationship when the other person is NOT okay with it. SO for me this ventures into cheating territory.

    Again I apologize for not being clearer.


  79.  #79Arachne on April 19, 2013 at 3:48 pm

    Thanks for acknowledging me, Senior Lady Vibe!

    If anyone is interested, there’s this documentary (around 40 minutes long) that explores cyber-relationships. They gave it a positive, hopeful twist towards the eds, but it’s still awe-inspiring.


  80.  #80BeLoved on April 19, 2013 at 3:59 pm

    Feeling awe today….
    really awed.
    The “what if something better comes along/am I doing the right thing?” demons have been hovering, I breathe through them…

    and feel so grateful.
    In some ways, T is NOT the man I thought he was at all at all, I feel as if even after 11 years, I am just scratching the surface of getting to know him.

    It’s kind of like, I’ve only been able to receive bits and pieces of him on an old dialup connection, and using FM’s and being vulnerable has expanded my bandwidth and ability to let more of him in.
    I feel amazed to realize how, in some ways, he’s even more of a man and an even better man than I realized and
    Can I brag on him for a minute??
    You know what he does, as a way of being? He’s a peacemaker. He works with peacemakers all over the country, cooperating and collaborating and sharing information and ideas and resources to generate peace on the planet. He’s designing several games right now, designed to be challenging and fun and also train brains to be more harmonious, cooperative and peaceful. He’s a programmer and everywhere he goes he also picks up coaching work because wherever there is conflict, he ends up resolving conflict between parties so well that he gets hired by the companies who hire him for programming, to consult for conflict resolution.

    Oooooohhh…..he’s a good, good, good man.
    I used to hate him and think he was the dev!l and thought he was all kinds of messed up for “putting “up with me and it has taken this long to realize, he just loves me, it’s just his nature.

    I love the way he looks at me, like he’s looking at Heaven and feels awed and wonderstruck, like he’s never seen anything so beautiful in his life. I used to think he was stupid for thinking that, I could just cry, I couldn’t believe anyone could feel like that about me and not be severely f*cked up.

    I feel so proud to know him, I feel so proud that his love for me is so obvious to people who know us, time and time again our closest friends have said, “It’s so obvious that she is the love of your life.”

    Okay, nuff o’that, gonna lean back for a bit and get focused on me 🙂

  81.  #81BeLoved on April 19, 2013 at 4:02 pm

    Arachne, I feel appreciation for you speaking up and your strong, informed voice, thank you!

  82.  #82BeLoved on April 19, 2013 at 4:02 pm

    Arachne, I feel appreciation for you speaking up and your strong, informed voice, thank you!

  83.  #83Dominique on April 19, 2013 at 4:03 pm


  84.  #84Arachne on April 19, 2013 at 5:23 pm

    BeLoved – I feel glad! 🙂 It’s a sensitive topic for me, so I couldn’t resist sharing.

  85.  #85Vi on April 19, 2013 at 8:20 pm

    I feel so much joy when a Siren starts CDing! CDing yourself like going out with girlfriends is such a huge step forward, Prplpsn28 ! Yay for #51! It may not feel exciting right now to you, but to me it feels soo inspiring – I know how much courage it takes and admire you.

  86.  #86Tereana on April 19, 2013 at 8:40 pm

    When I read this letter from Warrior Girl, I got bored after she started talking about their respective marriages. Maybe that’s because I agree that it is all an imaginary relationship. And that should be obvious, but clearly not to her.

    So I have to ask the question – why would she do that? And I go back to the beginning, when she mentioned her difficult miscarriage. To me, that sounds like the crux of it all, and probably where her feelings are not resolved. If she wants to get counseling, I would recommend seeking counseling for that, possibly with her husband. Because that can be traumatic and devastating – or totally normal – depending on how it happens. And for her it sounds like it was huge. Which I’m guessing is why she mentioned it at the top of the letter.

    I see her involvement with this online fantasy, and this fictitious (as in not real, in the moment, in person, person) as a way to escape – not just her husband, but the reality of life and what happened. Her husband is the trigger for the memories. So even if she loves him, being with him must remind her all the time of the lost pregnancy.

    And I really can’t imagine (or rather, I can only imagine) the pain that comes with the loss of a pregnancy. But I know something about it, because I work with pregnant women all the time, and yes, some of the do lose their pregnancies. Not all pregnancies are meant to continue, and sometimes they just end. We don’t always get to know why. Much like relationships.

    If she wanted to, she could practice a modified version of the “no closure” tool, and notice that she may have lost the pregnancy, but that doesn’t make her a bad person.

    And the other question on my mind – about her relationship with her husband – is whether they were happy before the pregnancy, or if there were problems, and maybe they thought that having a child together would solve them. If that’s the issue, then possibly, this just isn’t the right marriage for her. In that case, she should face that issue head-on, too, instead of making excuses for her feelings by using another person.

    Either way, she is clearly engaging in escapist behavior, and running away from her pain. But the only way to get through the pain – same as for the rest of us – is to feel it.

  87.  #87Tereana on April 19, 2013 at 9:41 pm

    I still have not contacted dCD. 7 days no contact. I don’t know if that’s a good thing or a bad thing. No contact from him either. I suppose I shouldn’t be worried. He’s probably thinking about me…

    And tonight I have a date with SLEEP. It’s only 9:30 and I’m already in bed. My sleep has been crap this week. Plus yesterday I had my stupid gyno appt. I woke up this a.m. still bleeding a little. That’s not normal, right? And now I’m cramping again. I’ve never quite felt pain like this. I had to hold onto the sink to steady myself. I hope I feel better after a good night’s sleep…

  88.  #88Tereana on April 19, 2013 at 9:44 pm

    Oh, here’s another way to look at it – it’s ONLY been a week. Not even! I only saw him last saturday! That’s like no time. It’s like a blip in “boy time” ; ) It just seems long because so much has happened this week.

    Whew! I feel better. More relaxed.

    I went for a float today, and I sooooo needed it. And I felt so much better after. I should go more often….

  89.  #89Miss Bells on April 19, 2013 at 10:10 pm

    This story made me think of HS and Trailer Girl last summer. He had an imaginary relationship with her…
    He is completely past it, but I am not. Still don’t really trust him all the way.
    But we are slowly re-building.

  90.  #90Emerson on April 19, 2013 at 10:27 pm

    Thanks Dominique yes they are part of my soul!

  91.  #91Emerson on April 19, 2013 at 10:34 pm

    Tereana float on what?

  92.  #92Libelula on April 19, 2013 at 10:36 pm

    Tereana – 85. I feel triggered and angered by your message to Warrior Girl regarding her miscarriage.

    The following feels dismissive and minimizing of her grief & situation: “And I really can’t imagine (or rather, I can only imagine) the pain that comes with the loss of a pregnancy. But I know something about it, because I work with pregnant women all the time, and yes, some of the do lose their pregnancies. Not all pregnancies are meant to continue, and sometimes they just end. We don’t always get to know why. Much like relationships. ”

    The following is a helpful brochure, especially the second page, for how to support a parent is dealing with the grief of pregnancy & infant loss.

  93.  #93prplpsn28 on April 19, 2013 at 10:54 pm

    I had an awesome time out tonight with friends. But I’m not at all happy with things with H. He played hockey instead of going to the outing with me, which is fine. I don’t have a problem at all with him playing hockey. He loves it and I would never want to prevent him from doing things he loves. But I was so sure that I would hear from him when he was done. He’s always contacted me before. I feel like he didn’t even try or attempt to see me. We haven’t gotten together since our argument last wknd. I feel like he’s distancing himself from me and I don’t know why. I’m so frustrated, hurt, angry, sad. I’m really tired of feeling this way. I will not contact him. I reached out to him yesterday and I will NOT do it again. So extremely upset.

  94.  #94Indigo on April 19, 2013 at 11:19 pm


    Not trying to be harsh at all here so please forgive me if it comes across that way, but this seems like classic guy shutting-out behavior. Have just seen it so many times here on this blog, and with girlfriends in real life.

    Blocking you from seeing certain things on Facebook? Neglecting plans with you? Not communicating for many days? This is either his relationship style, or he is dealing with something. Either way, are you sure you want to be exclusive with this man? Seems to me it would be impossible to stay sane unless you are CDing.

  95.  #95Daria on April 19, 2013 at 11:29 pm

    i feel so sad and lonely!

    i love my feelings!

    i feel guilty i haven’t taken care of myself by putting myself out there for new men to meet me (checking and answering my dating sites)

    but EMF’s from the computer feel uncomfortable… like being low key tazed!

    and i feel cracking and constriction and i feel scared this isn’t healthy for me!

    i feel panicked

    i intend to heal all this


  96.  #96Daria on April 19, 2013 at 11:30 pm

    hi April Rose

  97.  #97Daria on April 19, 2013 at 11:43 pm

    i just wanna cry and cry

    and i feel so greatful that i found out yesterday how to get back into my feminine energy (fm’s and don’t wants, literlaly put hand on mouth to stop anythign else)

  98.  #98Smile on April 19, 2013 at 11:59 pm

    Well strummingman asked me out for a cup of tea!!!

    … Seriously… Are you for real!! After 2 years of withdrawing, shutting me out, leading me on, letting me down, but telling me he loved me…. What a pile of croc!!

    I turned down his offer of a cup of tea!

    Yes me, riding that horse to my happily ever after 🙂

  99.  #99Smile on April 19, 2013 at 11:59 pm

    Hi daria 🙂

  100.  #100Heart on April 20, 2013 at 2:21 am

    Hello Blog,

    Smile…I feel happy to read about your “progress”. It’s so good to see a siren’s metamorphosis.

    Well, I feel a little turned off by relationship advice & info & articles….I’m bored of it all.

    Working hard & reconnecting with myself these days.
    I feel peaceful & tired…my mind doesn’t have the energy to wonder so I’m more or less content…But Tired…lol.

    Hope everyone is doing ok …sending love.

  101.  #101Nme008 on April 20, 2013 at 5:25 am

    Over two weeks since M and I have broken up! And yesterday I get a text saying “apparently you just passed so n so. We’re you smoking a cigarette and driving?” I was like “are you getting updates on me?” And the says “always”. Ugh why did he text me! I mean I’m still good and all but it just seems when things get easier he reaches out. There was no point in texting me. If he is always getting updates on me, which I’m sure he really is, what made this time different? Cause he saw me out Wednesday and I was fine? Off….this has been the first phone contact though.

    On another note? I’m back online dating. Well online? Haven’t been on a date yet. But I’m talking to 3 guys and we should be setting something up for next week. We will see….

  102.  #102BeLoved on April 20, 2013 at 6:03 am

    Hi Daria!!!


    I’ve been missing your voice here!!!!

  103.  #103Lisa on April 20, 2013 at 6:21 am

    Just responding from the last thread….@femininewoman 341 We have marriage on the table meaning we both have said we want it. He said he wants to spend the next 40 years with me. He said he doesn’t want anyone but me. He’s found what he wants – there isn’t anyone else for him, I’m perfect for him. Our agreement is… that we are both working towards a lifetime commitment, we are a couple and exclusive sexually and even kissing. I made it clear that I will see and spend time with my Male friends ( and I do). He is introducing me to his family and friends.. His mother and Grandmother next month on their visit. Everything else seems in place. Last night he slipped and said my husband..when talking about us… It did take him 5 dates to kiss me… saying he just wanted to make sure there were feelings there instead of just hormones. I know he is slow to the start, this seems extreme. I’m just wondering what suggestions are on what I can say…

  104.  #104Hana on April 20, 2013 at 6:34 am

    Ladies, you are all so inspiring and brave. I love reading your posts! I have a strange question…what do you guys think about comparing someone you’re still so in love with but doesn’t want you back with the current guys you are seeing, is this a terrible thing to do? I know it must be natural…should I refrain from doing it?

    Still getting over A…I’ve decided to devote my salsa night outings to going out on new dates, so that I won’t be seeing him anymore for at least 2 weeks, let’s see how that goes…

  105.  #105Femininewoman on April 20, 2013 at 6:40 am

    Hana that is an unconscious block to love. Just like you see it is the same way guys see it, feel it and some will eventually move on because they recognize that the girl is still hooked on the ex.

  106.  #106Femininewoman on April 20, 2013 at 6:46 am

    Lisa it might just be that his timeline is different than yours so finding a way to synchronize both might be where your work is. He seems to be thinking, feeling and saying the right things but you also need to keep your vibe up so he feels inspired to keep things moving forward. If you laser focus on him he could feel turned off. I’d say when he talks like this is the time you can ask what do you see for us in the future then tell him your dreams using boundaries. When you will like to be married, when you would like to have your kids etc. Make it about you and your dreams not about him or we. He has to understand even though you want him, you don’t need him to make this happen. You are committed to your heart, your life, your dreams.

  107.  #107Femininewoman on April 20, 2013 at 6:50 am

    Smile I have to be honest with you here, I would have gone. It would have done wonders for my self esteem because after 2 years I believe my hormones around him would have been settled and I would be able to see clearer what I don’t want. Yet I love it when men drool over me. I don’t think I would have been able to resist that.

  108.  #108Femininewoman on April 20, 2013 at 7:01 am

    prplpsn28 – You said you don’t know why he is distancing himself and it struck me as you lying to yourself. You know that you had the argument and since then things have felt differently because you don’t feel his energy coming towards you. All your energy has been going towards him with all this wondering and wanting to reach out. You say this is the way he always deal with conflict which is the reason I did not agree that you should reach out to him. If he is angry he needs whatever time he needs to deal with his own anger. He knows what he is doing and he has a good reason (though you might not agree with it) to do what he is doing. What would it matter if you had a problem with him playing hockey, it wouldn’t change anything if that is what he wants to do. Just yesterday I was talking to a male about some problems with my son. He said men play games when they have problems to forget about all the problems and to feel good. For him he said it is like making it all go away.

    I really do believe that the best thing for you is to “really feel tired of feeling this way”. If you truly are it will inspire you to take your attention off this man and put it towards taking care of you. Ask yourself what do you need to do to take care of yourself. Find things to do that you are passionate about. Be with people who make you laugh and are genuinely interested in your wellbeing. For me it made so much of a difference when a man was pulling away. Let him pull until he falls on his backside because he does not feel your energy pulling him towards you. Then he, if he wants to will wonder what the he!ll happened and come running back to find out. There are millions of men out there who would sacrifice everything to be with you.

  109.  #109Femininewoman on April 20, 2013 at 7:13 am

    Nowadays I feel triggered when I read “it will be hard to keep my mind off him”. I am like really? Everytime some comes up for me I am conscious about it because I made a commitment to myself not to go there. As such as soon as it happens I gently notice it and choose to change the thought. I can’t honestly say it is always gentle because sometimes I jerk myself or drag myself away from thinking about someone else to thinking about me. It only takes a commitment and willingness to want to take your mind off a man to help yourself do that. Men do it by going out and doing other things, as well as by going into their man cave and distancing themselves. Maybe we could take a lesson from them in that regard. If we are angry with them why not?

  110.  #110Lisa on April 20, 2013 at 7:44 am

    @femininewoman I agree!! I’ve learned to that years ago… I took it from men… I go in my cave and cry and contemplate what i’m wanting, needing before going back out to my man… and it actually has worked well… it brings him to me… he is usually saying what are you thinking, feeling? Your shutting me out… can we talk.. Now I do have to say that sometimes, I can’t stop thinking about him and I’m working on that… I’m looking at my priorities and realizing how self defeating it is to constantly be thinking about a man… and how addictive it feels to me… so I’m starting to do what you do…and realize for me it is sabotaging in a lot of ways of my life…

  111.  #111ALA on April 20, 2013 at 8:29 am

    I just tapped on the anger I feel towards D.

    I feel shakey.

    I love my anger. Love to me.

  112.  #112Emoticon on April 20, 2013 at 8:32 am


  113.  #113Femininewoman on April 20, 2013 at 8:33 am

    Hi Emoticon. I miss you.

  114.  #114seahorse on April 20, 2013 at 8:47 am

    In reading the related post at the top i feel, thankfulness that the post are there, triggered, and my head head is nodding yes. I feel naked emotionally. It feels new and I also feel brave. Chin up yet smiling. Look what I got! Excited, feels exciting. Popping up in my head is, I want comfy shoes. No stiletto feeling men in relationships. I don’t want man crack. Comfy shoes. Gentle and then leading slowly into whatever……… Slowly feels peaceful. No rushing or infernos!! Gentle and slow. Ohhhhh that feels so better

  115.  #115seahorse on April 20, 2013 at 8:55 am

    Is the slow thing to appreciate the feelings? I feel very curious around this………… I feel agreement in myself. Yes, slow down and feel. Ahhh haaa!!! Slow down process, then speak. Or maybe just slow down and say Hi____________ feeling. How the heck have you been? Slow thing to what? what? what? Slow thing to honor myself? I like slow. I didn’t used to. I like slow now. Honor

  116.  #116ALA on April 20, 2013 at 9:24 am

    I just received this timely email:


    I was wondering… is it ever healthy to lash out at someone who is deliberately trying to hurt you, push buttons, etc?

    I just did (a little bit, oops). I dont really care any more. My limit has been reached and I did. My reaction is telling me that I do need to work on my anger. whew, not my proudest moment. Hopefully they wont bother me any more. That’s all I really want.

  117.  #117Smile on April 20, 2013 at 9:35 am

    Aw thanks heart! X

  118.  #118Smile on April 20, 2013 at 9:40 am

    Thanks for your honesty FW.
    He wanted to meet as friends, I told him I dint want to be his friend. He said it’s complicated but he missed me and my smile. He is with his ex. Truth is he’s not what I want anymore. I know this now. I see it so clearly without even meeting up with him. I’m open to responding to his texts if he does again. But it’s done wonders for my self esteem all the lovely things he said 🙂

  119.  #119TMI on April 20, 2013 at 9:49 am

    I’m feeling uncertain of myself. I went through a similar situation years ago. My marriage had started to go stale and I felt at the time that I was just looking for what I was not getting from my husband. I flirted and had “relationships” with people I met online. I realize now that I looking for those feelings from MYSELF.

    My husband I managed to get through that time but not without great cost to our relationship. Recently, my husband left me. He told me “falling in love with an old friend from high school”. I felt devastated. I went through an explosion of anger and resentment and used my vast array of self-abuse tactics to get him to not leave me or to try to get him to see my point of view. He came back after a few days and I started therapy because I didn’t like the person I was being. I knew I wasn’t being honest with myself or him about my feelings. He visited his “friend” for a weekend but came home early because he missed me. I trust him that they did not get physical but I am still resenting the fact that I feel like I have to share my husband. I don’t want to share my husband. I want to feel like the most important person in his life. I see that he texts her everyday and talks to her constantly. I am afraid that she is getting all the sweet and caring parts and I’m left with whatever he has left to give me. I’m feeling that maybe it isn’t enough to meet my needs.

    I don’t know how to express my fears without him taking it as an ultimatum. I keep finding that I’m just holding in my feelings instead of expressing them because I do see him trying, and I just don’t want to rock the boat.

    I’ve used Rori’s tools to be sure that he CAN meet my needs and that he is still what I want, but I don’t want to remain in this holding pattern forever. I feel my resentment grow every time he texts her and shares his day with her. I feel like an outsider in my own marriage.

  120.  #120ALA on April 20, 2013 at 9:51 am

    ((( Smile))) I feel happy to read that. 🙂

    Feeling calmer now… a little.

  121.  #121zara on April 20, 2013 at 10:42 am

    41: Terrance Thames Saturday, 25 July 2009 7:12pm says:

    On a side note I had a really interesting thing happen to me with a girl that I am dating. Well actually 2 interesting things. The first one leads into the other.

    She had a breakdown with me where she started crying about her biological clock is ticking. At the time she so happened to have been drinking and that day started that fun time of the month. She got really mad at me for I really don’t remember why and even threw a dinner roll at me!..lol. I listened to everything she had to say. And when she cried I didn’t move and didn’t react or say anything. I just held her and kept eye contact with her while she was crying. I believe it got so intense with her that when she held my eye contact when crying she could not stop. She actually had to break it to stop. Any thoughts on this?

    This happens last night:
    I was in my room talking on the phone and I guess my roomates let her in and I didn’t know. She walked into my room and immediately started talking really loud and borderline attacking me for no reason at all. She was kind of, well actually completely irrational and I had no idea where it was coming from. When she saw I was on the phone she actually got louder…lol..I was pretty stunned. I asked my buddy if I could call him back and I asked what was wrong. She was ranting and raving about an issue we had earlier this week. (what happened above). There were a few times where she threatened to stop dating me and leave and never talk to me again. Called me some interesting names. She was definitely trying to push my buttons. This is where it gets interesting. If I would have been my old self before I put any work into this, I probably would have started yelling back and defending myself and maybe even told her to leave. It was in this moment that I knew that I was a truely different person.

    Here’s why:
    Instead of getting mad, I felt honored. In my head I thought that she had to release some emotional stress and I was the only one that she felt safe doing it with. How could I be upset about that?
    Another difference even from the first night. This time I searched my feelings for when she was really venting and looking for empathy and when she was testing me i.e (“We will end this now if you want and i’ll leave! Do you want that?” I knew she did not want that.). When she would say stuff like this, I would look her dead in the eye and said with as much presence as I could “No” or variations of very short decisive statements. When she would bait me further I would just look at her. Everytime I did that she softened up. I was shocked at how it would instantly turned her mood around. It actually happened a few times when I felt she was baiting me. This might be TMI but the last time she challenged/tested me I got so turned on by this that instead of just saying “No” I actually picked her up and threw her on the bed. I haven’t seen her that riled up in a long time!
    Oh yea there were a few feeling messages in there. Mostly at the beginning though. ( I’m feeling confused about where this is all coming from).
    Maybe I wasn’t aware of it until now but I was pretty happy about the outcome. However, one thing perplexes me. David Deida talks about this a lot, but each time I handle her like this, she gets more and more irratic each time if shes feeling emotional/stressed. He says its because she is trusting me more and more each time it happens so she lets more out. On one end it is great practice for me but on the other end it makes me wonder if it is going to keep getting more intense. Any thoughts on this?

    42: tinque says: Saturday, 25 July 2009 7:37pm

    I don’t know what to tell you really Terrance. I tend to be far calmer than most females. It’s a rare time that I get riled up, and an even rarer time that I would do so in front of my man. It’s just so not worth it, and it’s so unproductive, and it’s just so not my personality. Baiting? Well I might every now and then, but it’s far subtler than this woman you speak of, and believe me my man knows when my inquiries are clean or when they are a baiting trap.

    You are responding to her outbursts brilliantly. couldn’t ask for anything more from you if it were I in this position. She on the other hand sounds, well psycho comes to mind, but I don’t want to hurt you in saying that.

    43: Mercedes Saturday, 25 July 2009 7:50pm says:

    Terance: I’m with Tinque on this one. I’ve been called “scary calm” when I’m pissed about something but if I did do that, I’m guessing mt bf would not have handled it quite so sweetly. Maybe you should direct her to this blog. Lol

    I’m not sure about the reasoning that she’s doing it more because she trusts you more. I would think that trust would inspire her to not blow up like that with someone she cares for. But…I could be wrong. I just never heard it justified that way before.

    Much Love,

    44: Ann Saturday, 25 July 2009 7:50pm says:

    Are you doing something to push her buttons? It sounds to me like she isn’t feeling “heard” by you.

    45: Terrance Thames Saturday, 25 July 2009 8:03pm says:

    Tinque- lol..I appreciate your candid-ness. It doesn’t hurt me. To be honest and fair, this is an extremely rare occurance over a rather long period of time. So this is not the norm. It usually happens if she drinks a lot. The first situation she did drink. The second time she didn’t.

    Mercedes- Yea maybe I should. 

    Ann- As far as I know, I would say no but, who knows I could be wrong. Usually the next day she will always apologize and say if will never happen again and she needs to work on it and I didn’t do anything. I always assure her that it probably will happen and it is ok and to never apologize for her feelings. (She apologizes to me way too much)

    46: Ann Saturday, 25 July 2009 8:19pm says :

    Terrence I could be wrong. But I feel this sounds like she feels like she isn’t being heard about something.

    To me it also sounds like she stuffs her feelings down until she explodes. Because she cares about you a lot and is fearful of losing you. Which is why she apologizes so much.

    I would suggest the next time she does this sober. That you make eye contact with her and ask her calmly and softly “What are you so angry about? It’s ok for you to tell me whatever it is. I’m sorry if I haven’t heard something you were trying to convey to me. What are you feeling?” Then just REALLY listen.

    48: Rori Raye Saturday, 25 July 2009 11:07pm says:

    Terrance – Part of me wonders why such a clearly great guy as you would want a woman this “erratic.” and yet….it SO shows up that old thing about men not wanting us women to be “emotional” is a big fat lie. Emotion turned you on. When this no longer attracts you, and instead pushes you away, you’ll know that it’s actually more of a “defense” than an emotional sharing. And then you’ll tell her exactly what you “think” about the situation and work with her to process this stuff with you both in a conscious place. Fantastic man you are! Love, Rori

    49: Katja Sunday, 26 July 2009 1:11am says:

    I feel angry at this other guy right now for not responding to my emails. In fact I feel angry at myself for calling him yesterday in the evening. He didn’t take the call. And I was only calling him because I drank some glasses of wine and felt so emotional (Terrence,maybe this is interesting for you,too). Every time I drink some alcohol I feel like there is something emotional released inside of me that needs to come out. And I only feel like sharing that with very few people. (Btw don’t worry about me, I don’t drink that often.)

    I have to admit that I feel,too,that he is confused and maybe we are both trying to fill the gap, that occured after my boyfriends death, with each other. I felt safe with this other guy to show almost every emotion that came up. Now I feel embarrassed for showing him and telling him that much. And I feel insecure about whether or not its a good idea to stay in contact with him or to cut off contact. I do like him very much and it always felt really good to talk to him. Now it doesn’t feel good to even think about him.

    50: Tracy Sunday, 26 July 2009 1:33am says:

    I had this emotional outburst last year with a guy i felt and still feel deeply attracted to…..For my part that was because i felt safe enough to really show this dark side/stuffed feelings i was letting out…..

    However the anger and frustrations i had though directed to him were nothing to do with him…..It was my own fears and insecurities i had kept inside of me for such a long time that were starting to come out…..I am really glad it all happened because i really started questioning my love for me….and gladly enough i found this blog and so much advise that has really helped me grow and learn more about myself…..

    I feel glad that guyz like yourself are taking time to discover themselves and be more in control of their lives as eventually they help girls like us find their own true paths to happiness….

    51: Terrance Thames Sunday, 26 July 2009 3:23am says:

    Thanks ladies for all of the feedback! It was really helpful 

    Ann-You are absolutely right about her bottling up feelings. She has admitted that to me before and assures me that she is working on it. I know that won’t be fixed overnight. Also, I will try that. I believe I have done that before though and she always will play it down and say that she wasn’t about me and she was being stupid.

    Rori- Because I know her personallity and I know what shes working on, I allow her to work on it with me. Additionally, to me that is a minor part of the big picture of what she offers me. Shes worth it.

    Katja-Yes that is an interesting perspective. You share a lot of feelings that Hill does. Embarrassment, and insecurity are emotions that come up quite a bit with Her. All I can do is constantly give her positive feedback whenever she does it and continue to be a safe place for her.

    Tracy- Thanks for that. You pretty much confirm what I have been thinking has been going on with her. That is why eventhough things are directed at me, I have the ability to not be defensive and actually feel honored that she is doing it with me. I hate that she apologizes so much though. I feel like she should know by now that its ok to let go with me. (we have dated on all levels for about almost 3 years now).

    59: Rori Raye Sunday, 26 July 2009 12:22pm says:

    Go Terrance!!! I can’t tell you how much I want to support your turning other men into Terrance-like fellows.

    65: Tina Sunday, 26 July 2009 1:06pm says:

    Terrance i would feel to gaze at you for longer than five seconds, your approach is not important to me. Go help those guys, your doing a great job!

    66: Terrance Thames Sunday, 26 July 2009 9:53pm says:

    Rori and Tina-Thanks for the encouragement 

  122.  #122zara on April 20, 2013 at 10:43 am

    70: Mercedes Monday, 27 July 2009 6:50am says:

    Terrance: I’ve been thinking about your post where you talk about your girl getting upset and how it’s getting more and more intense each time. I was wondering…is it possible she’s trying to get a bigger reaction out of you? Maybe she’s pushing your buttons more and more so she can see how far she can go before you stop being so sweet about it.
    I was just putting myself in her place and trying to figure out what would be going on with me at the time and thought I’d probably be wanting to see you get passionate (not sexually) about my behavior. I do know that if my boyfriend handled things the way you do, as sweet as it is, it would probably drive me nuts. Generally, when someone is crazy mad and doing things like calling names, throwing things, bringing up the past and such, it’s meant to get a rise out of the other person. She’s passionately angry and you’re calmly just looking at her, holding her and waiting for the storm to pass…maybe she wants to see a spark from you.

    The other thing that makes me think this might be true is her mention of her biological clock. She’s clearly thinking about marriage and children, so maybe she’s qualifying you to see how much patience you have and/or to see what kind of temperment her children might have.

    For some women, a kind and gentle (no matter what’s going on) man is what they want and need. For others of us, we need a man who loves us no matter what shit we’re throwing around, yet, at the same time, won’t sit back and take that shit without comment.

    Just a thought…what do you think?
    Much Love,

    71: Nikita Monday, 27 July 2009 7:52am says:

    You dated her for 3 years? Is this going anywhere? I ask because for me at the 3 year point I feel frustrated and scared that he’s stringing me along or likes me enough for company but can’t commit to me for whatever reason. I feel like after 3yrs he knows what he wants from her. I’m trying to walk away from a man because I want marriage and I feel like since it’s not happening it’s time to disengage.
    Also, I would never show up unannounced and start ranting. Am I just not wild enough??
    Thx Nikit

    73: Aldonza Monday, 27 July 2009 9:48am says:

    Terrance – is this the same woman you mention in your blog about breaking up with? Also, you mention meeting another woman at a bar and making plans to go out. I’m confused. Fascinated, but confused.

    74: DocK Monday, 27 July 2009 10:32am says:

    Aldonza – Thank you thank you thank you!!!

    I was thinking, let’s see…if I a guy I was “with” for THREE years referred to me as “a girl I am dating” instead of “my GF” or “my fiance” and my biological clock was ticking…I guess I would have a lot of bottled up anger too!!

    I mean, wouldn’t Rori’s advice to me be…to circular date? Isn’t that the whole point (the one some of the guys were perplexed about?). That if I am with a guy for more than two years, and my clock is ticking and I want more and he hasn’t put an engagement ring on my finger yet or stepped up in ways I am looking for, than I am in the GF trap and I have no business being exclusive with anyone until I find someone that is ready for a commitment.

    75: Terrance Thames Monday, 27 July 2009 10:41am says:

    Mercedes- My reaction to her getting angry (It has probably happened maybe 4 times this year) is based upon my feelings at the time. I reacted the way I reacted this time based on what I have recently learned from this blog and other places (David Deida…etc) I have also allowed myself to get into arguments as well just ignoring the problem knowing that she would calm down and we could talk rationally later. All of the situations seemed to resolve themselves about the same, but the last 2 times she got noticibly more intense. Also the change in her position/mood was very abrupt compared to previous times. I guess what I’m saying is that I don’t take her shit when I feel like its really directed at me. I could be wrong in this approach but so far it has worked. Does that make sense?
    Oh and I never thought of the qualification part that you mentioned. Thats very interesting! Thanks

    Nikita-Yep I completely understand the 3 year mark frustration. I was there too. However, this situation is a little different because of a few things. I probably should have been more clear when I wrote dating for 3 years on all levels. That means off and on and varing levels of exclusivity. I have been friends with benefits, she has been my girlfriend, dating casually, etc… All for various reasons. So not all 3 years have been in an exclusive relationship. I do feel that it is going somewhere though.
    Also she didn’t show up unannounced. She knows not to do that. I knew she was coming over but I just didn’t hear her at the front door cause the door to my room was closed. I’m sure you are plenty wild enough  I hope this explains it a little further.

    Rori- Nikita touched on something that I think would make a good post.
    She said: I’m trying to walk away from a man because I want marriage and I feel like since it’s not happening it’s time to disengage.
    If a woman is wanting marriage and a man wants the woman but is not moving at the pace of the woman (assuming he is moving in that direction) towards marriage then when is it time to disengage without ultimatums?

    Aldonza- Thanks for reading my blog! The girl that I wrote about was a girl back in college. Not the same girl I am talking about here. Right now I am in an open relationship with the girl I mentioned here. We are not exclusive at this point. I hope I answered your question

    76: DocK Monday, 27 July 2009 11:12am says:

    From what I have learned from Rori’s programs – if a woman is at a place in her life where she is not engaged in sex-ploration (I think Daria’s term), or dating for fun but is ready for that person to share her life with and wants marriage and children (or something of “commitment” that is right for her), it is time for the “no GF” speech which a guy might deem an “ultimatum” but is not what it is about.

    It is basically letting a guy know, ‘I get that you have feelings for me and I do for you but I am ready to take that next step, you are not. That’s OK. You can take all the time you need to figure out what you want, but I don’t feel comfortable closing off my options so I will continue to see you, be sexually exclusive with you, but I will date others as well’ and she has to mean what she says – this is not game playing or strategy. It is outlining for herself and him, what she wants and what she is ready for so she doesn’t spend years on someone that is only really keeping her around until he finds someone “better.”

    On the other hand, if a woman is with a guy she is in love with and he has REALLY back-pedaled, saying things like he loves her but is not “in love” with her, or wants to be friends, then she should break off with him completely because being friends with a man she is in love with just means continued heart-ache and she needs to move on.

    As I look at the photos of the women here, the ones that I am able to see, every single woman is gorgeous, beautiful, stunning and so on with incredible, juicy personalities attached to that physical beauty.
    I don’t think too many of the women here have any problems getting “hit on” by men. I think the women writing here have come to Rori and her programs for a variety of reasons. Some, wondering if they can take a current relationship to a level of deeper commitment. Others, how to relate to a guy who is approaching them that they are interested in or how to relate to a man once they have started dating. How not to replay old hurts by engaging with men in the old ways that may entice them initially, but put them off eventually.

    I think in most cases, what I have read over and over is that the women here are preparing themselves to be that woman that is one-half of the partnership in a relationship with someone that is exclusive, loving, passionate, playful – and emotionally healthy.

    77: Mercedes Monday, 27 July 2009 11:22am says:

    Terrance: I applaud you for following your feelings. I don’t know if your approach is right or wrong and yes, it makes sense that you would try new ways of dealing with her. That being said, when a woman throws a dinner roll at you…her anger IS directed AT you so maybe a “I will NOT be treated that way.” is in order. LOL I’m just saying, if a man did that to me, I’d be a lot less nice about it than you are. Again, I applaud you for doing what you felt was right at the time.

    Now…you’ve raised another question in my mind. This is about curiosity rather than judgement, so please take it that way. I’ve heard your situation or a similar one about 3 or 4 times from men posting on this blog and emailing me. All of you are involved in the seduction community in some form, so maybe it’s something you’re taught there??? I’m wondering: You are dating this woman and you have an open relationship but you say you feel like it’s going somewhere. How does she know you’re feeling that way? I’m sure you’re honest and you’ve told her about your feelings, but…how does she KNOW? I mean…a guy can tell me all he wants that things are looking like they’re going to get serious between us, but if he also tells me: “However, I can’t see you this weekend because I have a date with another woman.”…then I don’t care how “open” we are or how “serious” he’s getting…I’m confused and I don’t believe his feelings for me are strong or even real.
    How do you do it? How do you convince a woman you care very deeply for her and you see things progressing but you are dating others? And…at what point then, does a man who has developing feelings close that open relationship and commit to her? I’ve heard a lot of men here not agree with circular dating (many have really trashed the concept) but…this sort of sounds like the male version of it only with the stipulation that as his and her feelings develop and things begin to move along, he’s still not willing to stop dating others and hitting on women.

    I think maybe it’s because my boundaries are strong but I wouldn’t take you seriously AT ALL if you were doing what you’re doing and telling me you think the relationship is going somewhere and I wouldn’t deal very well with a man who says that to me but then goes on a date with another.

    So…very curious about how this works…because I think your situation with her might be what’s causing her emotional outbursts to get out of control and more intense. That’s a lot of frustration: My biological clock is ticking. I want marriage and children. I’ve told this guy I’ve been on and off with for three years about this. He tells me he thinks our relationship is going somewhere. I have to find something else to do tomorrow because he has a date with another woman.

    I’m thinking I might throw the dinner roll too…

    Much Love,

    79: DocK Monday, 27 July 2009 11:39am says:

    Mercedes, I’m a body builder – don’t eat bread much so no roll – maybe a protein drink – wait, no the can would really hurt and I feel much more enlightened now than in my bad-ass Detroit days…OK – got it – a protein bar. I would feel happy to express my anger and pass on some healthy food all in one feel swoop.

    80: DocK Monday, 27 July 2009 11:42am says:

    Oops – that’s “FELL” swoop. Rori’s “feel” has invaded even my frisky, fun shennanigan-speak.

    81: Mercedes Monday, 27 July 2009 12:00pm says:

    DocK: Men laugh at me because I eat like a growing teenage boy and yet I’m so tiny. See…I don’t eat bread either which is why I wouldn’t mind giving it a good hard toss. If it were anything else on my plate…I couldn’t throw it…I’d have to eat it! 

    Much Love,

  123.  #123zara on April 20, 2013 at 10:48 am

    testing, my post 121 is stuck in moderation

  124.  #124zara on April 20, 2013 at 10:53 am

    Your comment is awaiting moderation.
    82: Simply Shannon Monday, 27 July 2009 12:08pm says:

    All of you simply amaze me. Truly wonderful!

    I feel curious about Terrance’s suggested post topic. I’m in a new relationship so I’m not even contemplating the “no GF” speech. How do you know when it’s time though? I guess you would feel it in your gut? My guy is committed to me (and I to him), but we aren’t married. I want to be married. I’m not ready for it yet, but I could see marrying him someday. Both of us are divorced. I know he has a bit of a bias against marriage. He doesn’t think it makes a difference. In his mind, you can commit without marriage. I don’t agree, and I’ve been very honest with him about this. I’m not in a rush, but I’m not going to be someone’s girlfriend forever. (Please note: To each his/her own about marriage, this is about how I feel about it.) So how do you know when?

    Terrance: I’m with Mercedes about the biological clock ticking and her not knowing where she stands in your long term goals. Saying the words “biological clock” signals to me a desire to be committed and having babies. Maybe her escalation is a result of you not hearing her request for more. The question is – do you want more with this woman?

    83: Nikita Monday, 27 July 2009 12:48pm says:

    I don’t give ultimatums. I am not his GF, I have been in the past.

    We have split before and he came back. So it has not been 3 continuous years. He just keeps coming back. I only accept exclusivity. I do date other people( I’m shopping). I don’t expect him to make me happy or give me what I want(marriage). I work on getting that for myself. By Dating. But because I do love him, I can feel that I am not as focused on finding a lifelong committment-meaning I’m comfortable with him so I date but I know that I’m giving too much energy to him. I told him when we split what I wanted and I respect that he doesn’t know if he wants marriage. Ok-goodbye. He came back to date me again, months later. I told him I can’t because he doesn’t want marriage and I do,so sorry. He kept insisting he does want to get married,he insists he knows he’ll never find anyone like me and feels like he fucked up(his words). So I agree to see him but explain I am still looking for that which he may or may not want with me(marriage).

    But now I feel very angry at him and it doesn’t feel good. He feels indecisive to me(big turn-off for me). I feel angry because after all this time he should know if I’m the forever woman. That’s my feeling. Maybe I’m being impatient, he has been good to me and I feel good with him-when I’m with him. But when we are apart and I see wedding rings I feel furious and scared he’s wasting my time because he’s indecisive. I feel angry at that because he is a very decisive man. I know he doesn’t want to hurt my feelings but keeping me around without a plan at this point hurts more and maybe I can do better,i.e. meet a man with a plan that already knows what he wants. Me.

    Great job explaining to Terrance why dinner rolls could be flying!
    I felt like, yeah.

    84: Rori Raye Monday, 27 July 2009 2:04pm says:

    Simply Shannon – the “no girlfriend” speech happens at the beginning – the first time he tries to nail you down “exclusively.” There should be no exclusive until marriage…you should be Circular Dating the whole time…Rori

  125.  #125zara on April 20, 2013 at 10:55 am

    A post is missing in moderation, so the following wont make much sense, but here goes:

    86: Mercedes Monday, 27 July 2009 2:57pm says:

    Nikita: Thanks…but I’m a little concerned I might have scared him off… :-/

    Much Love,

    87: Nikita Monday, 27 July 2009 3:03pm says:

    Miss M,
    No! Maybe he’s working. He’ll come back. He’s strong,and open to learning and teaching. You sounded compassionate to both parties to me.felt like you were interested in protecting everyones interests. I feel like he can totally handle an honest dialogue-he can take a dinner roll and still come back! I feel good he opened up, it inspired me to feel like opening up.

    88: Terrance Thames Monday, 27 July 2009 3:54pm says:

    Mercedes- Lol I don’t scare that easily. I just had to get out of the way of that dinner roll you threw
    I think the best way to answer this is in quotes.

    You said: so maybe a “I will NOT be treated that way.” is in order. LOL
    I actually threw it back at her when she did it…She then proceeded to crumble it up and throw the pieces all over my bed…lol Brat!

    You said: “All of you are involved in the seduction community in some form, so maybe it’s something you’re taught there???”
    Well there are so many different things taught in the seduction community that are different from one another around this topic. I feel that the stuff that resonates with me is suprisingly close to what is being taught here. Some people teach tactics on manipulation or influence and some teach to be brutally honest. I clearly went the honesty road and that is what has lead me to this point.

    “How does she know you’re feeling that way? I’m sure you’re honest and you’ve told her about your feelings, but…how does she KNOW?”
    Good point and to be honest, I don’t know yet. Thats why I am on my path to figure it out, by any means neccessary.

    You said: “How do you do it? How do you convince a woman you care very deeply for her and you see things progressing but you are dating others?”
    I don’t believe that I convinced her to do anything. I have been honest in my intentions to figure out what I want and I DO NOT want to hold her back in anyway. If she feels that my pace is not fast enough for her or if she has a time limit or something, then I fully respect her decision to walk away. I have told her this before several times. She will still be one of my best friends and I will always care for her. I have to figure “ME” out before I can figure “US” out. And quite frankly I’m just not there yet.

    You said: “And…at what point then, does a man who has developing feelings close that open relationship and commit to her?”
    I can’t speak for all men but for me it seems I need to be sure that all of my needs are being completely met and continually be met. And if they are not yet met to have someone willing to work on them. When that happens, I will close it off and become exclusive. This will become clear why later.

    You said: “but…this sort of sounds like the male version of it only with the stipulation that as his and her feelings develop and things begin to move along, he’s still not willing to stop dating others and hitting on women.”
    I feel like we are in agreement here, partially. Maybe I might have answered this above but in my situation personally, our feelings are moving along slowly and we are slowly getting more and more of our needs met. I have total regard for respecting her wishes but my needs have to be met as well in order for me to stop dating.

    You said: “I think maybe it’s because my boundaries are strong but I wouldn’t take you seriously AT ALL if you were doing what you’re doing and telling me you think the relationship is going somewhere and I wouldn’t deal very well with a man who says that to me but then goes on a date with another.”
    Ah. Beautiful! This I feel is the most important part of this. Maybe if she had stronger boundaries, I would TAKE HER SERIOUSLY. This is a MASSIVE need of mine that is not currently met. She does not stick up for herself and it makes me pause when committing to her. I think “Am I going to have a strong woman or a pushover?” I have said this countless times to her and I have told her specifically that this is the only reason we are not exclusive. She NEEDS a backbone. Essentially, in the example given above, the more dinner rolls get thrown at me the more im attracted to her…lol. Sounds weird but true for me. As I begin to trust that she will continually stand up for herself and challenge me, I will stop dating other women (she is probably reading this so now she even has it in writing  ) I feel like this is something that she needs to invest in me first before I commit. As Erica would put it a “Non-negotiable”

    So I hope this answers your questions and like I told you before I love your views. Keep em coming….this one is long so I will break this up to address everyone else 

    89: Fernando Monday, 27 July 2009 4:15pm says:

    There’s so many maybes! I feel like she’s got self esteem issues that she needs to get over before she becomes marriage material. I mean, I feel like a lot of people get married just to get married, or because they feel like more commitment will fix their problems. Obviously, this doesn’t work very well, so I’m going to say, “Go you,” for making sure you aren’t rushing into anything without making sure that it’s going to be good for both of you.

    I’m quick to give judgement sometimes, and I don’t know all the details, but I feel like not committing right now is a good idea.

    90: Terrance Thames Monday, 27 July 2009 5:22pm says:

    Dock-OK – got it – a protein bar. I would feel happy to express my anger and pass on some healthy food all in one feel swoop.
    Where have you been all my life!! 

    S. Shannon- Thanks for your imput
    “Maybe her escalation is a result of you not hearing her request for more. The question is – do you want more with this woman?”
    My answer is: If she can stand up to me yes I do.
    She has gotten better at it which has made me continue to invest in her, but it is far from consistent. I have given her extreme positive re-enforcement everytime she does do it as well and I verbally point it out. I also point it out when she doesn’t as well.

    Nikita-Thanks for your confidence!  I really appreciate it!
    If I were in that situation with you and you told me that you wanted to to split because I didn’t want marriage I would completely respect that. I wouldn’t go back to the relationship unless I knew that I wanted marriage with you. If I didn’t come back it would be because of some need that was not being met, AND I didn’t have confidence that you would grow in that direction that would meet my needs.
    You said: “Maybe I’m being impatient, he has been good to me and I feel good with him-when I’m with him.”
    I don’t know if you are being impatient or not But you are going at your pace and thats the important part.
    “But when we are apart and I see wedding rings I feel furious and scared he’s wasting my time because he’s indecisive. I feel angry at that because he is a very decisive man. I know he doesn’t want to hurt my feelings but keeping me around without a plan at this point hurts more and maybe I can do better,i.e. meet a man with a plan that already knows what he wants. Me.”
    I feel like if he is a decisive man (like me) and indecisive in a situation like this, then there might be something going on that he has not told you about, like something that he is looking for but isn’t getting. I can’t speculate as to what, but I feel if he is a decisive person and he’s not making a decision then he hasn’t got some questions answered. Just my impression.

    Fernando- Thanks for that. Very perceptive input!

    91: Nikita Monday, 27 July 2009 7:21pm says:

    Hi Terrance,
    I feel so justified about my confidence in you. I think this guy is scared of getting hurt/being vulerable to a woman. Now if I had a feeling………um, I feel like he’d marry me in two or three years.

    I feel like it’s a financial stability issue on his part as well. He makes a good living but doesn’t feel as stable as he wants. But I feel like it’s really about his mom. It’s not good. At all. I can’t alter that. I don’t want to try. He’s afraid of divorce and the destruction it can entail. But, speculation doesn’t feel good to me. I feel sorry for him; and that is not sexy-

    Maybe it’s not meant to be

    93: Tracy Tuesday, 28 July 2009 4:18am says:

    I feel glad to know that men are really attracted to women with strong boundaries..It explains a lot of what has been going on with my relationships.
    Your comment makes a lot of sense and i also feel inspired to improve myself and be stronger on the inside….Before this blog,boundaries is not something i was really keen on and i realize now that its a process and it is somehow linked to my self esteem which i had issues with….

    Having a guy explain it so clearly makes even more sense and justify all that Rori has been explaining in her posts for a while now…

    I feel that i am in a phase in my life where in the future i hope to be in a committed and fulfilling relationship but for now,i am still learning who i am and what i really want….so for me its more of experimenting and finding out what works for me and what doesn’t……

    I feel i do need to strengthen my boundaries,love myself more….define what makes me happy and be confident about myself……
    so i do agree with the dating and being sure that u get only what u really feel works for you…..

  126.  #126zara on April 20, 2013 at 10:57 am

    95: Mercedes Tuesday, 28 July 2009 7:57am says:

    Nikita and Terrance: LOL I was just kidding about the “scaring off” part….but I thought it might present a challenge just in case… 

    And Terrance…your response to me was VERY good. If you are being as honest with her (and I mean just as honest and open and authentic) as you were with your response to me, then I agree, she has all of the information she needs to make a decision about her life. Maybe it’s the “backbone” thing, but I respect myself enough to say “see ya” to a man who won’t give up other women for me. I agree, the way she is now and what you want do not mesh…so don’t commit to her or you’ll regret it.

    But…I wish for her, the self-respect she needs to say “I’m at a different place in my life than you are. I’ve enjoyed our relationship very much, but between that whole ‘biological clock’ thing of mine and you wanting me to change who I am by getting a ‘backbone’…well…I know this isn’t the right place for me. I’ll miss you but I’m off to give all of my energy to a man who can love me just the way I am and who doesn’t bring out the roll-throwing-psycho in me.” Then…go forward to find, focus on and grab ahold of the life she wants with the man of her dreams…

    Much Love,

    96: DocK Tuesday, 28 July 2009 9:59am says:

    Very well stated Mercedes.

    I feel what is so difficult for women is to walk away from someone when you have feelings for him because you have to face the fact that you are in different places or want different things.

    I had a flip of the above – I had to walk away from someone I had been with for 8 years because HE wanted marriage and family. It wasn’t fair to him to keep stringing him along and it was so tough to break it off but I had to do it.

    More recently, I had to give a “speech” to a LI and express my own boundaries. I, like you, don’t want a wedding ring right now (ever?) but that doesn’t mean I don’t want something deep and real so I said,
    I don’t feel comfortable initiating contact (I had felt like he was leaning back) so I won’t be sending you an email, calling, or texting unless it is in response to one from you right now. It feels like chasing and pursuing and I won’t do that. I feel frustrated too because I enjoy shared moments and I am feeling a lack of this. I want to experience more out in the world. I need to feel claimed and I will have this in my life with the person that wants me this way and is ready for it.

    (written in a different post as well)
    He said something about how I was waiting for Prince Charming and I explained that Prince Charming was a fantasy and I was talking about real.
    We didn’t speak for 2 weeks and he contacted me via email (“god I miss you”) and I didn’t respond.
    He waited for me outside my office but had my departure time wrong so missed me. He called. We finally spoke and got together to talk.

    Since then he has initiated all contact and made no complaints about it. He sent me flowers when I returned from out of town. He’s asked ahead of time to get together and we have had a lot of fun. He stopped by before he had to go to his second job just to kiss me because he said “I respect you too much for a ‘drive by f$%k’ (my expression).”

    At this point in our relationship – this is all I am looking for right now. I want us to take our time and enjoy each other but I don’t want to row that doggone boat and I am not going to. He knows that I enjoy him but he also knows I can live without him. If he hadn’t contacted me, we wouldn’t be talking right now.

    I still do circular dating as it works for me.

    I think that it feels hard to follow the Rori advice – like it goes against what we THINK is right and get so scared and wrapped up in ONE person when there are almost 7 billion people in this world.

    I am not cold. I have strong feelings for this guy but I also have strong feelings for myself and I deserve the best and that is what I will have.

    97: Simply Shannon Tuesday, 28 July 2009 10:40am says:

    Mercedes: I agree with Dock. Very well said.

    Terrance: I understand what you’re saying and you have every right to want what you want and wait until you find it. I would feel bad if I knew my man didn’t want me for who I am today, right now. No one is perfect. I’m always going to be a work in progress. I feel icky (too strong but I can’t think of another word) reading that she has to “fix” what is wrong before you’d take her. It’s one of those moments when I’d want to say “If you’re not careful, you’re going to lose me forever” and just walk away into the sunset. You leaving the door open for her to walk out speaks volumes to me. I feel admiration that you want to help her grow stronger but for me personally, I don’t want a student/teacher relationship. I want a lover and a friend who loves me…weaknesses and all. I hope that doesn’t come off too harshly. I feel apprecitation for the things you have shared here, and I’m looking forward to hearing what you think.

    Dock: “I think that it feels hard to follow the Rori advice – like it goes against what we THINK is right and get so scared and wrapped up in ONE person when there are almost 7 billion people in this world.” This is definitely where I get stuck. I feel okay with circular dating in general but have a harder time with it once I’ve begun really liking someone and then falling in love with him (and sleeping with him). Is this just a matter of changing what circular dating means to me? I don’t go on dates with anyone else but I’m aware of other men and haven’t closed off myself. I wouldn’t want a ring right away, so how long does the circular dating thing last in reality? I’ve been exclusive with my guy now for three months. I would feel surprised and nervous if he gave me a ring today. Not because I don’t want one but it just feels too soon. I know he wants the long term with me. And even though he’s made comments about his bias against marriage, I know he would/will marry me. He knows how I feel about it. He just needs time and so do I quite frankly. I feel confused by the circular dating thing in practice when you are dating someone you love. Any ideas about what I’m misunderstanding?

    98: Mercedes Tuesday, 28 July 2009 11:05am says:

    Thanks ladies.

    Terrance, I want to explain how I see this (now that we’ve gotten more information from you) from a woman’s (my) point of view. You see, I think the real problem is that she’s trying too hard to be what you want. You want a woman who will stand up for herself and you’ve told her that. She’s desperately trying to be that woman but since it isn’t natural for her, it’s coming out in instant rages (where she would normally be calm) and over the top anger and then she bursts into tears because she doesn’t know what she’s doing, she just knows she’s trying to do it. She’s not being authentic and these outbursts will continue to get more and more intense until you say “YES!…that’s the kind of woman I want!” and…before you know what hit you (and after you commit to her), the REAL her will come back and you’ll be left wondering what happened to that backbone you helped her achieve.

    I guess what I’m really saying is “Nobody can change for someone else. We can try, but we can’t change unless we decide (on our own) that we need to make improvements. Be very careful about asking someone to be different than they are. You are much better off finding the right woman for you than you are keeping one on a stringer just because she shows potential.”

    Make sense or do I ramble? (lol…sometimes I can’t tell..heehee)

    Much Love,

    99: Dan_Brodribb Tuesday, 28 July 2009 11:18am says:

    Mercedes, I really like this question.
    “I’m wondering: You are dating this woman and you have an open relationship but you say you feel like it’s going somewhere. How does she know you’re feeling that way? …a guy can tell me all he wants that things are looking like they’re going to get serious between us, but if he also tells me: “However, I can’t see you this weekend because I have a date with another woman.”…then I don’t care how “open” we are or how “serious” he’s getting…I don’t believe his feelings for me are strong or even real.
    How do you do it? How do you convince a woman you care very deeply for her and you see things progressing but you are dating others? And…at what point then, does a man who has developing feelings close that open relationship and commit to her?”

    I don’t think it’s a matter of convincing the woman (or man, for that matter–I’ve been on both sides of this situation). It’s a matter of people being ready to have a monogamous relationship (or the other person be ready to deal/participate in an open-relationship…which is a different beast entirely)
    I find my biggest problems don’t come from what I say to other people, but what I tell myself. I find it very easy to tell myself lies when they’re things I want to believe.

    It comes up when a relationship is unsatisfying but convenient, or I don’t want to rock the boat, or I don’t want to be the bad guy or I think things will get better…she’ll change or I’ll change or something will change.

    Or it comes up when I’m afraid that this person IS right for me, but I’m afraid so it’s probably better I keep seeing other women even if I don’t want to because otherwise we’ll just up in a committed relationship, but I’m a crappy boyfriend and I’ll end up cheating on her or she’ll dump me and when she does, I will be too old/rusty/bald to find another and I’ll live out the rest of my days broken and alone.

    I also feel a distinction between being ready and being sure. ‘Ready’ is about being in a position where I WANT a monogamous relationship. Sure is…well, actually Terrence put it quite well:
    “I can’t speak for all men but for me it seems I need to be sure that all of my needs are being completely met and continually be met. And if they are not yet met to have someone willing to work on them. When that happens, I will close it off and become exclusive.”

    I have found though, that many of us are NEVER 100% sure. There is always a reason to put it off. What if I can’t do it? What if she isn’t the right person? What if someone better comes along? What if I lose my ability to be attractive to the opposite sex?
    At some point–sure or not–the only way for me to find out if someone is the right person for a committed relationship is by rolling the dice and committing. It seems to make sense logically to keep one foot out the door until you’re absolutely, totally, completely sure but doing it that way has never really worked for me or anyone I know. Instead it feels like we’re just going in circles.
    I’ve found the best way to find out if I’m ready for something is to do it. And in such cases, I find out right quick.

    100: DocK Tuesday, 28 July 2009 @11:28am says:

    Simply Shannon:
    Circular dating is what you need it to be to keep yourself “open.” I am not great with real dates, like you say, but I am great at flirting. I can chat up guys at a restaurant or bar or wherever. I flirt with men on elevators, or guys holding the door open for me, train conductors…it’s about keeping the vibe open.

    I feel, however, (and everyone might not agree with me, that’s OK) that there is harmless flirting and then there is flirting that crosses a line when you (or him) are in a relationship with commitment.

    101: Mercedes Tuesday, 28 July 2009 11:31am says:

    Hey there db! I agree with pretty much everything you said, but I think my question was misunderstood by both you and Terrance. I’m not asking how you convince her to be with you or to be in an open relationship or to not be upset when you date other women. I’m asking how you convince her your feelings are real. Maybe “convince” isn’t the right word…how do you show her/tell her and ensure she knows you’re being authentic when you say you feel like the relationship is going somewhere and yet you have a date with another woman later. I’m not talking about convincing her to DO anything…I’m talking about convincing her to BELIEVE you…to BELIEVE IN you…and to BELIEVE IN the future of your relationship.

    That aside, I agree…the only way to be sure is to do it. I’m not saying get married just to try it out (I think that might be what I did…and you can ask my ex-husband…it was NOT a good idea!), but I do believe a man (or woman) will never know they are ready until they devote their energy to this one person. I know that goes against the black and white version of circular dating, but I think…if there could be a gray area where two people “date themselves” by giving the other some space and having fun outside of the relationship while at the same time, devoting all romantic energy to one person…they’re going to find out much more quickly whether or not things should progress or end.

    Much Love,

    102: Simply Shannon Tuesday, 28 July 2009 11:36am says:

    Mercedes: Spot on again. Thank you.

    Terrance: I hope you don’t feel like we’re ganging up on you about your relationship. I know I’m being triggered by it (the whole “you’re not enough” thing). I’m feeling more confident in my boundaries about walking away if he’s dating others. Reading your perspective, I can see how it’s not malicious on his part. It’s simply “all my needs aren’t being met”.
    I can either try to change some of my behaviours to meet those needs or I can say as Dock as eloquently put it “[I love you] but I also have strong feelings for myself and I deserve the best and that is what I will have.”

    Dan: I feel so encouraged by what you said. Love is risky. I’ve held back way too much because I was scared of getting hurt or waiting until I was “sure”. The irony is that I feel much more vulnerable on a daily basis now than I ever have but I also feel more confident in my ability to keep on my path regardless of what comes my way.

    103: Rori Raye Tuesday, 28 July 2009 12:18pm says:

    This is such an interesting thread. Terrance, Here’s my take. Until a man has decided he wants a woman. Not her “potential” – but her…he should be Circular Dating just like you should, if you’re the woman he’s “dating.” From here, I can’t help Terrance’s “woman,” but I can tell you that “standing up” to a man takes a bit of practice, and it might work for you, Terrance, but I believe the whole thing is an “energy” issue. Just like pheromones can’t be faked, learned, taught, bought, borrowed, evolved…neither can a person’s “energy.” A person’s “vibe” can change…and that’s what I could help this woman with…but her intrinsic “energy patterns” — I would even say her personality profile and enneagram status — would not change. She would become healthier, but she may STILL not be the match for you.

    That said – the fact that you are THERE with her tells me that you are attracted to her “energy” – but that her “vibe” is off. AND that you have some kind of subconscious push-pull with her. (To me – this is the basis of polyamory – for good or bad. It’s like splitting the trauma reactions around so you never have to face the deepest stuff…you can just keep moving around.)

    I’m very interested to see what happens for you with this woman — and if I could help her from here, I would…Love, Rori

    104: Simply Shannon Tuesday, 28 July 2009 12:21pm says:

    Dock: I feel the same. Thank you. I don’t know why I’m having such a hard time with the circular dating thing. There’s something there, right? 

    105: Aldonza Tuesday, 28 July 2009 12:27pm says:

    @Terrance – Just curious as to what your reaction would be if she gave you the “no girlfriend” speech. The way Rori explains it, circular dating is for us and if we want a commitment, we should not date a man who is dating other women.

  127.  #127zara on April 20, 2013 at 10:58 am

    106: Mercedes Tuesday, 28 July 2009 12:31pm says:

    Rori: I’m confused by this and really want to fully understand your teachings so I’ll ask…
    “Until a man has decided he wants a woman. Not her “potential” – but her…he should be Circular Dating just like you should, if you’re the woman he’s “dating.” ”

    I thought we were supposed to dump those guys that are dating other women while we’re circular dating. So…if the men circular date too…how do we all connect up in the end?

    Much Love,

    107: Mercedes Tuesday, 28 July 2009 12:36pm says:

    Shannon: “Is this just a matter of changing what circular dating means to me? I don’t go on dates with anyone else but I’m aware of other men and haven’t closed off myself.”

    To me, this is the circular dating gray area. You are going to be fine if things don’t work out with your guy and you know it…that’s really the key. I don’t think it needs to be actual “dates”, but I do think we just need to be open to the possibility that a man will come along who is on our time line before our current LI is…and that man could sweep us off our feet. It sounds to me like you’re in no hurry and enjoying the moment, so…as long as you and your guy progress at the same or a similar pace, all will be good. I think it’s more important to actually date (as in dinners and such) if we KNOW we want marriage and we KNOW we want it soon…and we KNOW we haven’t found a man who feels the same way.

    Much Love,

    108: Dan_Brodribb Tuesday, 28 July 2009 1:08pm says:

    Mercedes wrote: “I think my question was misunderstood by both you and Terrance. I’m not asking how you convince her to be with you or to be in an open relationship or to not be upset when you date other women. I’m asking how you convince her your feelings are real. Maybe “convince” isn’t the right word…how do you show her/tell her and ensure she knows you’re being authentic when you say you feel like the relationship is going somewhere and yet you have a date with another woman later. I’m not talking about convincing her to DO anything…I’m talking about convincing her to BELIEVE you…to BELIEVE IN you…and to BELIEVE IN the future of your relationship.”

    Oh. In that case, I’d like to change my answer to “I have no idea.”

    Then again, I’m not interested in convincing anyone of anything. I try and express myself as honestly as I’m able and hope for the best.

    Everything else is pretty much out of my hands.

    109: Mercedes Tuesday, 28 July 2009 1:40pm says:

    db: Oh. In that case, I’d like to change my answer to “I have no idea.”

    Thanks for your honesty! That’s pretty much what I thought…LOL (just kidding).

    I think my point is really about expressing yourself…honestly and without any mixed signals. I guess I’m just cautioning the men here (and women too if they’re in a similar situation) to be very careful that their actions and their words are matching. If your actions are dating lots of women and your words are “I think our relationship is going somewhere”…well…I know I’d be confused. That being said, your actions would trump your words and every time you said “I think our relationship is going somewhere.”, it would translate in my head to “blah blah blah blah…”

    Much Love,

    110: Simply Shannon Tuesday, 28 July 2009 2:25pm says:

    Mercedes: Blah, blah, blah. Yep. Before I would have taken that scrap and run with it. “Oh he loves me. He wants to marry me someday. I’m fine with him dating others as long as I believe one day he’ll want just me.” Eck, eck, eck. Yep – I feel triggered. Grrr. I feel very angry right now. Wow. I just realized the source – an ex boyfriend who keeps coming back in my life (as recent as two days ago). It was always something with him. Blah, blah, blah. Funny thing is that a year ago I felt unworthy of him. Not anymore.

    And thank you for the “gray” explanation on circular dating! I feel comfortable with where things are right now. There are still parts of me that feel worried I’m going to mess this up or that some step along the way will jinx the whole thing. I’m trying to feel more relaxed and go with the flow about it. There’s no pressure here and I feel happy. Maybe one day I’ll start to feel anxious about him and us but right now I feel good about where things stand.

    111: Terrance Thames Tuesday, 28 July 2009 3:05pm says:

    Thanks Ladies and gentlemen for giving me several different perspectives. I can appreciate them all 
    I presume this will probably be a long comment to answer everyone so bare with me.

    Tracy- Thanks for feeling my viewpoint on this.
    You said: “feel that i am in a phase in my life where in the future i hope to be in a committed and fulfilling relationship but for now,i am still learning who i am and what i really want….so for me its more of experimenting and finding out what works for me and what doesn’t……”
    I believe we are in similar situations right now. I feel I am still developing into my “best self” as well.

    Mercedes-Thanks for giving this so much of your attention as I truly value everything you write. This a very refreshing perspective that I fully understand. A couple of things I want to address
    “how do you show her/tell her and ensure she knows you’re being authentic when you say you feel like the relationship is going somewhere and yet you have a date with another woman later?”
    I would have to say that in my situation the way I would show her is by spending more and more time with her. Basically trust her more with everything in my life. and involve her more. i.e Vacations, keys to the apt, etc..
    “I thought we were supposed to dump those guys that are dating other women while we’re circular dating. So…if the men circular date too…how do we all connect up in the end?”
    This is a phenominal question! I was going to ask it for myself too.

    I one side I think that dumping us male circular daters would rule out a lot of great partners as a lot of us are strong confident and decisive and genuine. We just haven’t found “the one who makes us forget about the rest” yet. I feel like it almost leaves you with a pool of guys who the majority (not all) either look for the lottery ticket approach to finding a potential mate (one at a time) or the shy guy who doesn’t approach as easily.

    One the other side it seems like it would eliminate a lot of player guys who anyone want to get laid and leave.

    Either way I see it as interesting as to which side allows you the better oppotunity for happiness.

    S. Shannon- Nope. i don’t feel ganged up on at all. I’m honored by it. I knew that what I said was probably cause some controversy but it was not my intent to trigger anyone.
    “It’s one of those moments when I’d want to say “If you’re not careful, you’re going to lose me forever” and just walk away into the sunset. You leaving the door open for her to walk out speaks volumes to me.”
    The reason I am able to leave the door open is because I believe that there are a lot of people that can be my match. Not just one. I also believe that if you love someone you can let them go and if they love you and it is meant to be then they will come back to you when they/you are ready. Thats about the only thing fairy tail-ish I still believe in. (probably get mixed results on this one) She would get all the respect in the world from me if she decided to walk away.
    “I feel admiration that you want to help her grow stronger but for me personally, I don’t want a student/teacher relationship.”
    Every one of my relationships in the past and present have help define me into who I am now. I personally would love to be in that type of relationship because for me, thats where my growth has taken place. I wouldn’t change that for the world and I would hope that it would be that way for the rest of my life.

    Rori- Thanks for that.
    “That said – the fact that you are THERE with her tells me that you are attracted to her “energy” – but that her “vibe” is off. AND that you have some kind of subconscious push-pull with her”
    I agree 100% with this. I feel the vibe thing is what I have describe above. Maybe I expressed it into a personality trait but thats what it comes down to. The vibe that she is willing to walk away if she needs to for her and not for me. When I tell her that she tells me that she is able and willing to, but I know otherwise.
    And: “She would become healthier, but she may STILL not be the match for you.”
    Yes I agree with this too. Isn’t the only way to know this is by waiting (until shes healthier) with to see how much we grow together?

    Aldonza- Well my understanding of the No GF speech is basically telling the guy that you are looking for marriage and you are going to continue to date until you find someone to be engage to..Is that correct? If I am wrong please set me straight 
    If so then my response would be for her to date other guys. i am actually a big believer in dating other people to in whatever capacity that is to each person. I feel you learn way faster about yourself and your wants and desires than just dating one person at a time. For me personally, I have encouraged her to check out the competition. I am confident enough to feel like it would only make me look better to her. And if she finds another guy that make her happier than I can, then I can reflect on that and grow from it and she is better off anyways. A win-win in my opinion.
    “The way Rori explains it, circular dating is for us and if we want a commitment, we should not date a man who is dating other women.”
    I think I have expressed my curiosity in this earlier. I think its interesting because I advise guys to do this as well, except I don’t really mind if a woman is dating others. In my experience, I have not seen dating women that are not dating other men any less or more willing to commit that if they were dating them, They seem only more educated in what they want out of me (depending on a lot of variables). If you become the woman that makes me forget about the rest then I will no question commit to you with everything I have to offer. I don’t feel that is any different in this concept of circular dating.

    Again I feel very privledged to be getting this much feedback. I amd learning a ton here! I love this feminine energy!

    There are a lot of questions in my comment but I have come up with another one:
    At what point does believing in growth and development of a person take a back seat to cutting the relationship because what is right here and right now?
    I am not talking about trying to change anyone. As Rori put it “vibe” factor
    Where do you draw the line?

    112: Rori Raye Tuesday, 28 July 2009 10:18pm says:

    Going to jump off into a post on this one, Terrance…Rori

    113: Karen Tuesday, 28 July 2009 10:57pm says:

    Just a suggestion; maybe you should buy Rori’s book and give it to the woman you have been off/on with for 3 years. Even if the two of you end up breaking up, it would probably help her find “herself” under all the layers of trying to be what whichever man she is with at the time wants her to be.

  128.  #128zara on April 20, 2013 at 10:59 am

    114: Mercedes Wednesday, 29 July 2009 6:30am says:

    Hey Terrance: I gave it my attention because it really triggered me into trying to get inside her head and see what might be going on…I am fascinated by this so I thank you for that. Psychology is a passion of mine and I do a lot of work with young women (who have been abused) and teenage girls (some who have been abused and some not) so going “inside the mind of a woman” when she’s acting/reacting in ways that don’t seem common or “normal” (for lack of a better word) is sort of what I spend my free time doing. Anyway…thanks for the topic…it really got me thinking and “trying out” different thought processes for where she might be coming from.

    I think my problem with the whole concept of “how do you show her” (or convince her – man I regret that word) is because I can’t grasp the concept of a true open relationship or, even more than that, an open lifestyle. I know in my head there are a lot of people in this world (men and women alike) who have multiple sexual partners and nobody is wanting more and no feelings are being hurt and everyone is happy moving from one partner to the next and back again but…there’s a big difference between knowing that in my head and feeling it in my heart. This is something I would like to be able to grasp, but I’m not sure I will…I’m so incredibly in love with my guy that I can’t imagine being with another man or hearing about (seeing??) him be with another woman. So…until I can fully grasp the concept and understand that REALLY, both parties are okay with it and nobody has emotions and feelings that aren’t ready for it, I’ll probably struggle with the concept. I know it will never be for me, but I would like to develop some empathy for those who do choose to live their lives this way. I hope that happens for me.

    Much Love,

    115: Simply Shannon Wednesday, 29 July 2009 7:45am says:

    Mercedes: “I can’t grasp the concept of a true open relationship or, even more than that, an open lifestyle.” I feel confused too.

    Terrance: These posts have actually helped me a lot. I feel more resolved about my desire to have a long term relationship. Rori’s concept about the man not being able to date others even though I’m circular dating makes complete sense to me now. In the past, I would have felt mad at a man for stringing along a woman when he knows she isn’t “the one who makes us forget all others”. What I’m learning from your posts is that the man isn’t being malicious. He’s simply waiting to see if things change with the one he has and keeping himself open to someone else who might be “the one”. I don’t have to like it but it is what it is. This is about the woman (ME) having the confidence to say “no, I don’t want that, and I’m okay walking away from you to have what I want and deserve”. I can see alot of myself in the woman you are describing so it touches home with me.

    As to the teacher/student comment – when I was reading your post about giving her positive reinforcement, I read it with a condescending, patronizing tone (self inserted – not something you intended – just the way my brain read it). Of course we learn from one another and grow together. I completely agree with you. However, I want to be accepted for who I am today. That’s the person you love today…not the potential me tomorrow. Again, for me, this triggers the “I’m not enough” feeling or the thoughts that “if only I did X, he would love me”.

    That is not a feeling I enjoy having. I hope Rori’s new post will address your questions. I feel interested in that as well.

    116: Terrance Thames Wednesday, 29 July 2009 8:45am says:

    S. Shannon-
    “In the past, I would have felt mad at a man for stringing along a woman when he knows she isn’t “the one who makes us forget all others”. What I’m learning from your posts is that the man isn’t being malicious. He’s simply waiting to see if things change with the one he has and keeping himself open to someone else who might be “the one”.”
    I feel heard here! This is why I felt that guys can circular date non-maliciously and accomplish the same thing as women can.

    “I read it with a condescending, patronizing tone (self inserted – not something you intended – just the way my brain read it). Of course we learn from one another and grow together. I completely agree with you.”
    Yea I just started the writing thing about a month ago so I’m still learning which words to choose so I’m not triggering people. Thats why I started posting comments at the school of hard knocks for Men “Siren Island” 

    Shannon-I wanted to tell you that I hold you at very esteem on here, just ask Mercedes. I love hearing what you have to say. 

    117: Mercedes Wednesday, 29 July 2009 9:13am says:

    Shannon: I love your last comment. It is a lot how I feel too…so many possible negative reactions to someone when they feel like they are a “work in progress” in someone else’s eyes.

    The way I see it, I want a man to love me EXACTLY the way I am RIGHT NOW. If I need to change (because I’VE decided I need that to happen), I want my man to take me by the hand and walk with me through that journey of change. If he decides he needs to change as well, I will do the same for him. I want a man who will challenge me to be the best I can be but not one who will hold back because I’m not there yet. I want a man who wants what he sees and feels where I’m concerned. I want a man to totally walk away if I’m not enough so I feel free to find a man who is right for me. I want a man to respect me enough to do just that. I want him to leave knowing that he was just with an amazing woman who is going to make some other man (a man she fits perfectly with) very happy. I want him to be happy to have known me but wise enough to know we weren’t (at that stage in our lives) right for each other. I don’t want a man waiting for me to improve but I do want a man who celebrates with me when I do.

    And yes…Terrance did give you a very big compliment in an email to me (just in case you didn’t already believe him…lol)

    Much Love,

    118: Rori Raye Wednesday, 29 July 2009 9:20am says:

    In my travels and research, I’ve known and met people in all kinds of relationship styles, including “swingers,” a woman living with two men successfully for a very long time until one man finally prevailed and the other man left, hurt, and fabulous, polyamorous women who are able to maintain ongoing, deep, emotional, connected relationships with several people at the same time — even while primarily committed to one. Sounds impossible for me, and perhaps you — it’s like an “alternate reality.”

    At the top of my ‘Values” list (the one I give all my clients and that’s in Reconnect Your Relationship) is “security.” That’s just me. It’s like my survival issues have to be in place before I can let go and have fun. This is something I work with and process through all the time — because you just can’t always feel secure. Life isn’t like that.

    There is so much to learn from people whose needs and values lists are different from our own. It is incredibly helpful to imagine what it would be like to live as though “experience” and “pleasure” and “connection” and “adventure” and “fun” were at the top of your lists. Love, Rori

    119: Mercedes Wednesday, 29 July 2009 9:28am says:

    Rori: I agree so much! It would never work for me (this is something I truly know in my heart and soul) but my brain is aware that it really does exist and I’m trying to get my heart and my feelings to believe it as well.

    That’s why I sought out Terrance…he’s helping me understand better…as far as being able to truly FEEL it exists, well…that’s up to me to do on my own, but I really do appreciate his willingness to spend time on this with me, answer my questions, not try to “convince” me of anything and just give me the facts (honestly and as he sees them) as well as share his story. It’s given me a lot to think about and I’ll either fully get it or I won’t, but he’s a good teacher…
    Thanks Terrance!

    Much Love,

    120: Mercedes Wednesday, 29 July 2009 9:32am says:

    Not only that, but I asked him some very personal questions and made some very judgemental comments and he didn’t even once get offended. I talk the way I want to (or at least in whatever manner feels right at the time) and he very gently guides me back onto the path and offers to help even more…That’s cool stuff!
    Much Love,

    122: Simply Shannon Wednesday, 29 July 2009 6:50pm says:

    There’s so many posts happening all at once that I’m having a hard time keeping up!

    Terrance: I feel flattered. Truly. Thank you. I feel my face blushing. Thank you! Please don’t think you need to choose your words so that they are non-triggering. You just need to be you. YOU are not triggering me (or others). *I* am triggering me when I read everyone’s posts and roll the words around in my head. It’s my past experiences coming to the surface (and possibly being dealt with in a healthy way, so thank you). I like how you write. I feel your honesty and desire to share and learn. And thank you again for the kind words.

    A little bit of irony for the day – I was just on Facebook and one of my friends changed the quote on her page. I’m stealing it. It’s my new life motto…

    I’m selfish, impatient, and a little insecure. I make mistakes, I am out of control, and at times hard to handle. But if you can’t handle me at my worst, then you sure as hell don’t deserve me at my best. – Marilyn Monroe

    I LOVE IT.

    I am not a perfect person. I have moments of weakness and insecurity. Sometimes I cry for absolutely no reason. And when I feel like it, I wear my Bitch hat proudly. So what? I am a beautiful lady, an enthusiastic lover, a loyal friend, a smart cookie, a hard worker, a comedian and a rock-star in my car. I’m a package deal. You can’t have all the good stuff without the not-so-fun stuff. And I don’t know much about the Riffing tool yet, but I guess I’d have to say, I love my not-so-fun stuff too. It’s a part of me. And I’m slowly starting to believe that I ROCK. 

    123: heartbeat Wednesday, 29 July 2009 10:22pm says:

    Shannon – you rock 
    “I’m selfish, impatient, and a little insecure. I make mistakes, I am out of control, and at times hard to handle. But if you can’t handle me at my worst, then you sure as hell don’t deserve me at my best. – Marilyn Monroe”


  129.  #129zara on April 20, 2013 at 11:04 am

    two posts got eaten up in moderation… Anyway, let’s see if i can post a last one…

    Rori Raye Wednesday, 29 July 2009 10:18am says:


    Here’s my answer to a lovely comment by Terrance (there’s a whole series of his comments, so find them all…) about his relationship with a woman he dates — who he spends more time with than any other woman, and who he hopes will “develop” to her “full potential” and be a fantastic partner for him.

    Okay – I watch enough “Bachelor” and “Bachelorettes” to see how this works (Yeah, we’re supposed to laugh at that, but…we really can see it.)

    This season I saw Reid and Kiptyn take it all the way to the end with rings, etc…but when I saw the footage of Jill and Ed in bed together just nuzzling – I almost felt I had to look away, it was so personal and private.

    Don’t know if anything will last, or if anything is real, but I saw men mull it over, and I saw a man fall in love.  Even if it’s all make-believe and fabricated and acting – it was obvious, clear, unvarnished, you could feel it.

    I saw men talk about love, and I felt a man FEEL it.
    The first “Bachelorette’s” Ryan was like that with Trista.  My husband is like that with me.  You, Terrance, may be like that at some moment with your “right woman.”

    And you may not.

    You may be a man who needs to “consider” other things on your way to Forever After.

    Sometimes, a man will serve himself best if he marries a woman without that “feeling,” and after “considering.”

    Same for a woman.   Marrying a man after “consideration” instead of from that “all-enveloping love” that does exist, but doesn’t necessarily have to exist in order to actually HAVE the blissful love and relationship and intimacy you want – the whole lifelong shebang.

    Sometimes, a more comprehensive, intelligent, well-considered thing takes over when a man usually has the WRONG impulses and he figures that out – when every woman he FEELS that way about (just like us) is the total “Miss Wrong.”

    He will, when he’s ready in his life to marry, marry a woman who may not elicit the gut level, primal, capital letters love he remembers as a young man and still dreams about, but who elicits the compelling urge to combine forces with her on all levels.

    If a wise man makes this choice, rather than to cater to his subconscious trauma responses and compensations and the attractions he was born into…he will make a “good match” with a woman who makes him feel GREAT.

    I think, Terrance, this is what you’re thinking about doing, here.  Thinking about taking this well-considered route instead of blindly following the FEELING. And I want to say BRAVO to you…and…something tells me there’s a time for “well-considered” and a time for “gut” – and that you’re in your “gut” time, and that you’ll know the woman when you FEEL it.

    So… if you are a woman and dating Terrance, and he’s still dating other women but spending most of his time with you…and YOU are truly Circular Dating and not getting all hung up on Terrance and trying to hide it…this is a good deal for you as long as you aren’t hung up.

    AND – for a woman with a guy as cool as Terrance, with the feelings we women generally have if we’ve been with a man awhile…it’s pretty much not all that possible to be “not hung up.”  Polyamory is a dream for most of us.  A titillating dream sometimes, a nightmare most.

    You are doing the right thing, Terrance, for now, and sooner or later, you will have to make a choice, or you’ll feel like you’re leading her on. You’ll have to weigh your options and make a choice to commit to her and keep her or let her go — and — I think it will become very clear to you what to do.

    I have a dear friend, a relationship expert himself, who found himself in the situation of not knowing which dream to fulfill — his dream of lifelong love with a woman who was mature, sexy, beautiful, self-actualized, lovely and adored him and made him happy, or his dream of his mythical ideal woman, which gave him nothing but sorrow.  He chose love and happiness, and is a blissful and brilliant husband now.

    He knew, deep in his soul, that his mythical ideal dream of a woman came from a place inside himself that was not really himself. That she came from a place created by twisted forces working on him and through him from birth, and that he COULD remake those impulses by following his happiness and contentment and attraction rather than following what automatically and instantly appeared that was “old.”  Instead of following the “poster” that had been on his wall forever, he took a new picture and pasted it over the old.

    You, Terrance, may have a mythical ideal dream girl, but I somehow don’t think so.  I think you’re going to be overcome, instead, by a FEELING, and that feeling will lead you in a GOOD way — where you don’t have to “consider” so hard.  I think you may be one of the lucky ones.  To want what is also good for you.

    Now, for us women, the same exact thing is true.  We are attracted of our own free will, and we are attracted by dark forces inside us.  If we have a history of being led by dark forces to misery in love, then we have to change course and start “considering” our other options.  We have to switch from automatically being drawn to a man who feels chemically “right” to us,  to considering our feelings for OUR SELF when we’re with a man.

    We are not always drawn to a good match for ourselves.  Often, and more and more often these days, with disconnected, abusive, cold childhoods everywhere, we are automatically drawn to more disconnection, abuse and coldness.

    To find the warmth, love and joy that belongs in your life, you may have to follow a different path than the one you feel drawn to.

    Terrance is figuring that out right now.

    If you are the girl in this scenario…look back and see where all the paths you’ve been most drawn to have led you, and “consider” the other paths open to you.

    Instead of being “drawn” to a man…allow yourself to be drawn to the image and experience of feeling joy in the presence of a man.  Allow a man to be your environment instead of your center.  Allow a man to be so drawn to you that you can look at your experience of him without fear of losing him.

    If you are the girl in Terrance’s scenario, and you cannot Circular Date because you are too drawn to Terrance — that’s the time to walk away.

    If you are the girl in Terrance’s scenario, and you CAN Circular Date because you’re more interested in your own life than in the “draw” you feel to Terrance — then he’s a good experience and experiment for you, and you can BOTH “consider” what you want and weigh it against what you are automatically drawn to.

    If a man doesn’t know he wants you within 3-4 months, chances are he never will.  That simply eliminates him by virtue of how that makes you feel…which is likely not good.

    And if a man is hanging in there, hoping you will turn into the woman he wants…I know what a “draw” that can be.  It’s the draw of the dark forces inside you that are telling you you are “not enough.”  And, in my experience, it’s hard to know if – with that man you will never feel “enough.”

    For the woman who is married to my friend, it’s too soon to tell.  It’s too soon to tell if his dark forces will push the marriage out of shape, or if they will fade forever in the sea of bliss that the marriage creates and grows daily, moment by moment.

    It’s much easier to be loved by a man who wants you in his whole body, gut and mind and heart, than a man who wants you through “consideration.”
    And that’s what Circular Dating can help you discover.  Where a man is coming from. How “into” you he is. If he’s got a nice blend of gut and consideration going on for you.  Whether he’s fighting his dark forces, or being led by them.

    Yes, you can push love and a man away.  Yes, you can short-circuit the connection by staying forever in your brain instead of your heart.  Yes, you can damage a relationship beyond repair with jealousy and obsession and making him your center instead of yourself.
    But – ask yourself this — why did this particular man show up?  What is the “draw” here for me AND for him?
    If I am pushing love away, so is he.  He’s drawn to me BECAUSE I’m pushing love away and making it easy for him to be without intimacy, too.

    So — you see — it works both ways.  Seeing potential in someone is a trick.  It means you see yourself as one step ahead.  It’s just another way to avoid love.

    One of my favorite films of all times is Minnie & Moskowitz, by John Cassevetes, with Gena Rowlands and Seymour Cassell, and I saw it again with my acting class last night.
    Two people totally wrong for each other, totally unsuited.  Except that he is unwaveringly and steadfastly in love, and is there at the moment when she gives up trying to hold herself together and falls apart right in front of him and his instinct to take care of her takes over them both.

    The ending is happy.  The ending says that intimacy is where it’s at, no matter what you THINK you’re drawn to, and that all it takes is one person being drawn enough to the other to allow the intimacy to happen.

    So, Terrance, let us know how it goes…and if you’re the girl in this scenario…step away.  Please.  Get some air.  Get some other men.  Start “considering” your options. 
    You don’t have to give him up — but you have to “give up” on him and start building up you.

    Love, Rori

  130.  #130ALA on April 20, 2013 at 11:35 am

    ((( Zara ))) Wow, that’s a lot to read. I’ll have to go back when I have more time. ( (between clients right now)
    It feels important to me, the parts I quickly skimmed. 😉

  131.  #131MovingMagic on April 20, 2013 at 12:16 pm

    I’ve been thinking about relationship time-lines, & getting to a place within myself that feels easy breezy. I feel so close to that understanding…the understanding of not rushing, pushing & expecting. Does anyone have any thoughts on these things?

  132.  #132seahorse on April 20, 2013 at 12:20 pm

    ZARA- SOLID GOLD BABY!!! Absolutely golden. My body is singing ding ding ding ding!!!!!!! Thank you sweet siren for putting that up.

    I am feeling VERY curious as to how that went for Terence. And feeling so hopeful for the girl.

  133.  #133seahorse on April 20, 2013 at 12:26 pm

    And if a man is hanging in there, hoping you will turn into the woman he wants…I know what a “draw” that can be. It’s the draw of the dark forces inside you that are telling you you are “not enough.” And, in my experience, it’s hard to know if – with that man you will never feel “enough.”

  134.  #134seahorse on April 20, 2013 at 12:29 pm

    If you are the girl in this scenario…look back and see where all the paths you’ve been most drawn to have led you, and “consider” the other paths open to you.

    Instead of being “drawn” to a man…allow yourself to be drawn to the image and experience of feeling joy in the presence of a man. Allow a man to be your environment instead of your center. Allow a man to be so drawn to you that you can look at your experience of him without fear of losing him.

    Thank you Rori.

  135.  #135Rori Raye on April 20, 2013 at 12:35 pm

    TMI – Welcome – and this, as I see it, is the only possible cure: You didn’t love him before. And now you want him. What made that switch happen? I can’t help but wonder if you only want him because now some other woman does. If you actually believe you LOVE him, and want him, and are willing to do the work, then you need to repair the damage. You need to find love inside yourself – for yourself, and for him….and stop focusing on what HE’S doing or isn’t doing.

    He’s just looking for love. Is he getting that from you? What’s HE missing from you that he’s getting (or looking for) from this other woman? I know I NEVER talk like this – but your letter tells me that this is a missing piece for you. You can’t fight another woman for your man unless you love him, can see his needs, too, and can visualize what the entire RELATIONSHIP’S needs are.

    If, after looking at all this, and determining that his needs are as important as yours are – if he still can’t step up…then – that’s a different decision. But I don’t hear yet that you’ve exhausted the love road yet. Love, Rori

  136.  #136Luzydel on April 20, 2013 at 12:45 pm

    I have not seen captain CD in two weeks, no he is not hiding. He works two consecutive weeks and have one off. he has contacted me all these time and we have spoken on the phone etc. I don’t feel crazy about this, but I feel comfortable when he is in my presence.

    I lost other potential Cd’s because they never asked me out… I don’t know if it is a good idea to keep just one cd, but that is all I have for now. No other men have shown up. I do date myself etc.

    I just do not want to get hung up on CaptainCD…

  137.  #137Enor on April 20, 2013 at 1:44 pm

    Hello Rori.

    I’d like to say THANK YOU for all of the information you share with us! I am such a different woman, I can barely recognize myself.

    I was living in la-la-land totally over functioning, overly giving, sacrificing myself all the time even if hubby did nothing for me. Thinking that somehow it was just the right thing to do. But it was causing me to keep track of all his negatives and to look down on him.

    We’ve got 3 kids under the age of 5. One night, a friend advised me to go on a date with my hubby, and I answered by saying I didn’t want to and how I don’t enjoy dating him. And he was there listening to the whole thing. He flipped. Lied to me the next night, went to a work party, met someone, asked her on a date, and then… Texted her like crazy, started buying new clothes, going to the gym daily, going out night with his coworkers single guy friends, and went to Vegas with her. (He confessed to me he had dated another woman a couple of years before this).

    Told me he wanted nothing to do with me. So at first I thought it was a short stage of midlife crisis or something. I begged his forgiveness and asked for another chance to being the best wife ever. He said no.

    After I found out about Vegas, I thought “let me give him his space”. I booked a trip to DR with my kiddos (all 3) to be at my home in DR. It was so hard on me and relaxing at the same time. I made this decision after reading Tough Love.

    Well, 2 weeks after being away, he seemed repentant. Started going to counseling, etc. etc.

    In DR I found YOU. 🙂

    Now, we’re back together… It’s a totally different relationship for me. I do not ask ANYTHING of him except the minimal that the court would give us if we were divorced–time off from the kids for me. He never gave me a break and wouldn’t want me out of the house at all.

    I have made focused completely on me. And when he’s not around, I LOVE MY LIFE. I can get things done. I’m not over functioning. I am not overly giving at all so I’m not resentful much.

    Problem: when he does come to me on his own… I don’t want to be open and vulnerable. I want to fight him off. I feel like when I act open, I feel fake. And my thought is every time: what did you do now? What are you feeling guilty about that you’re coming to me? When he comes to me it’s always mainly only for sex and I just end up feeling used. And what if he’s dating someone else? Or emotionally attached to someone else? If I knew he was, I wouldn’t want to make love or be open and vulnerable to him! I would say NO. I just don’t trust him and don’t know when he’s just putting on a show in front of me but doing something else behind my back. So I don’t want to ever be open. But I’m not sure how I could trust ANY man or body ever since anyone could be nice to my face and lying behind my back.

    Help me deal with openness. I think it’s important also. I just don’t want to be used and lied to.

  138.  #138TMI on April 20, 2013 at 5:13 pm

    135 Rori Raye says:

    Thank you for the welcome! 🙂 I feel confused by your initial comments. I had to go back and re-read what I wrote. Lately, I have such a myriad of feelings going at every moment, I tend to get lost in them.

    I have never been OUT of love with him. I have been OUT of love with myself. I used(ick) those other men to make me feel desirable and good about myself. I would woo them and let as many as I could attract, chase me. Sometimes I lied to them, I ALWAYS lied to myself.

    I actually just finished writing a 3 page narrative of what I’ve been going through since what I call “BOOM DAY” (day he left). It was meant to be this blog response, but after re-reading it I realized “OMG THERE ARE MY FEELINGS!!!!”. I have been having trouble recognizing the authentic feelings I am having and seperating them from Judge Judy’s (my inner voice, you’d have to read the narrative lol) voice.

    I feel (NOW after reading the narrative) that I’m feeling fear. He has begun taking care of himself. He went to the dentist, he is wanting to see a doctor about a few things that he doesn’t like about himself. I’m afraid that because he now has this new found love for himself and wants to take care of himself, that he wants to impress someone else. (I know, not fair to him).

    My heart feels that this relationship with his friend is just that, friendship, but Judge Judy, who has always taken care of me(in her eyes) disagrees and reminds me to feel the icky. On the other hand, I am also seeing all the ways he IS stepping up and that inspires me that I am on the right path to find true love and acceptance with my man.

    Your second paragraph really did give me more food for thought which is where that 3 page narrative exploded from.

    Rori: “You can’t fight another woman for your man unless you love him, can see his needs, too, and can visualize what the entire RELATIONSHIP’S needs are. ”

    I DO love him.

    I am starting to recognize his needs.
    From reflection within myself, I think he feels unsafe with me because in the past I have always responded with anger. Because I have not loved MYSELF for the last 16 years(ugh), he has been closed off to being in love with me. He needs me to know and love who I am. He wants(I know because he finally said it last night, yay!!) space to get to know himself and me again.

    The entire relationship needs: Respect, honest feelings, not easy anger, I don’t know… :/(yet)
    Sadly, I am finding it hard to seperate the voices in my head to figure out which voice is my authentic self.

    More in a bit, i am off to process.

  139.  #139Rori Raye on April 20, 2013 at 6:17 pm

    Enor – Welcome – and you’re going to have to make some decisions here…If you can’t be open and vulnerable, and meet HIS needs, then your marriage won’t work. Period. YOU have to go first. So – if you don’t want to – then you might as well divorce him. No matter what’s going on with him – if he’s not getting enthusiastic sex with you, love, warmth, openness, then he’s going to feel that you don’t like him, want him, approve of him – and yes, this is true! You don’t. Your suspicions are making connection impossible. (I’m not saying they are or aren’t warranted – I’m just saying that they’re causing a stalemate.) So – if you can’t trust him, if you can’t open yourself to him – why are you there? The kids can’t be the answer to this…you’re going to have to decide if you can take a chance and open to him. I men, what’s the worst that can happen? You’ve been so hurt, I would think learning how to do this with your husband, no matter what’s going on, would be a good experience for you. AND – if he turns out to be unworthy – well, then you won’t have doubts and you’ll know what to do. Love, Rori

  140.  #140sha-sha on April 20, 2013 at 6:33 pm

    Hey ladies
    Just trying to catch up on the blog 🙂

  141.  #141Emoticon on April 20, 2013 at 6:54 pm

    FW <3

  142.  #142zara on April 20, 2013 at 7:23 pm

    137: Rori Raye Friday, 5 April 2013 7:46am says:

    prplpsn28, Welcome – and here’s my “take” on your situation. It isn’t completely bleak – but I believe you have some work to do. First – every other weekend is not okay for an exclusive relationship. Period. In order to be exclusive (which is HUGE in my book for a woman) you have to have exactly what you want in a relationship. That means marriage or engagement or living together, and, absolutely, in MY book – seeing each other at least 2 to 3 times a week, some consistency and sense of a future together. Otherwise, you’re DATING. This isn’t a BAD thing – it’s just not “exclusive” material – it’s dating.

    Please, please read and work with the new ebook – learn to use Feeling Messages. Learn to Circular Date – because CD’ing is your ticket out of this stuck place – and it’s just about “dating” – so learn everything you can. My entire catalog is so insanely inexpensive now (not much more than 1 hour privately with me by phone) that you might want to consider it to really immerse yourself in the Tools and get a plan together. Right now – he’s running the show, he has all the power, and he has exactly what he wants. Do you? Because he’s assuming this is all perfectly great for you! Until you can learn to talk to him in a heartfelt, real way – until you know exactly what you WANT to say to him, and what you want to do – you’re going to be stuck. Work with the book – it will help you so much. He can’t “come to you” much logistically – he’s too busy, and sex isn’t driving him to you more than every two weeks. You need to consider your options, what living together would look like (even without marriage, but at least the conversation would get started). Otherwise – if you’re okay with the way things are now – keep it, and have a big social life as well. Love, Rori

  143.  #143zara on April 20, 2013 at 7:36 pm

    Intimacy-Afraid? How-to-start-doing-it-anyway/
    Wednesday, 2 September 2009

    It’s possible that most of us have never known true intimacy from the moment we came into the world.

    We’ve been labelled, taught, cajoled and prodded, been threatened by all forms of authority, told what’s true and what isn’t, and disrespected for everything from our feelings to our thoughts. Our relationships have been more about pleasing others than pleasing ourselves.

    More about struggling and using our wits to get what we need and what we think we want than discovering what it is we really want.

    Sometimes we need someone else to tell us that it’s okay to want what we want.

    Sometimes we only accidentally discover that the person we really are, warts and all, underneath all the masks and games we’ve learned to put between ourselves and others, is truly loveable. It can change our lives forever, or remain a lost opportunity forever.

    Someone sees us — really sees us — in a moment of accidental abandon and their heart fills up with love for us. We deny this possibility and push that someone away because we so don’t believe we are loveable.

    Does this sound like you? It’s most all of us.

    We can’t, or won’t get close enough to someone who may very well be a great partner for us because we’ve never done it.

    We don’t know how.

    When I was an actor, I did not have access to my emotions (pretty big skill limitation for an actor).

    I could pretend fairly well, and it got me far –I could laugh nearly anytime, but I was completely detached from my anger and pain. An actor friend told me — “fake it til you make it.” Meaning, if I pounded the table hard enough and long enough with my fist, I’d feel angry. If I hit my hand with a hammer over and over again, I’d feel pain. I’d probably cry.

    I use some of this “fake it til you make it” philosophy in teaching you how to express yourselves (and sharing all the techniques I discovered to find my feelings and dig deeper into the feelings and learn to express them no matter what) — because we’ve all already been pounding the table and hitting ourselves with hammers to feel bad, instead of finding and using new things to do that make us feel good.

    Sometimes, just not saying or doing something can trigger the real stuff. Sometimes, just not saying or doing something you’ve always said or done in the same situation will change the pattern of your life forever. Change the dynamic in a relationship you may already be in — forever.

    Trust creeps in, in small ways.

    Intimacy takes hold in the spaces between words.

    Not speaking not from your heart leaves room for speaking from your heart.

    The next time you’re tempted to tell a man what to do, even though you know how to do it better than he does, or to even just tell him what you think — stop yourself. Stop talking. See what happens.

    So what do you do when you’ve stopped talking?

    How do you communicate anything? The simple answer is to use an “I feel” message. This sounds easy. But it’s probably something you don’t really have words for. Starting with “I feel” is the perfect start, but what then?

    Go with what’s really there. Feel the floor under your feet. Feel the table in front of you. Feel your heart beat, your stomach gurgle, the tightness in your chest that’s there because you’re mad, or upset, or frustrated, or giddy, and you don’t know what to say.

    Feel the most concrete, real, simple thing you can, and say that. Just saying, “I’m hungry” is better than “Let’s go to that little Italian place, okay?”

    This is a game, you say. No, it isn’t. It’s the missing link. The missing piece that we never learned as children. We learned how to get along, how to influence others, how to look and do good, but we never learned how to even make contact with what we really feel, much less ever said it simply.

    A woman who can say what she feels, simply, directly, passionately, with energy and conviction or matter-of-factness will find her man in record time. And there will be nothing to stop him from grabbing her and running with it.

    Remember the public display Tom Cruise did over Katie Holmes? Well, that wasn’t bad, or weird, or bizarre. It’s the way men are supposed to behave when they’re in love — only we’ve all forgotten. They’re supposed to turn cartwheels. And they DO. But we’re all embarrassed. We’re all afraid of intimacy. What would happen if we behaved as if we weren’t?

    Love, Rori

  144.  #144BeLoved on April 20, 2013 at 7:40 pm

    I’ve been through a flurry of feelings, from panicky to feeling empty.
    T and I have been talking off and on about the things that are coming up for us (more for me than him, as usual).
    Telling the truth is working it’s magic.
    We Skyped, and I noticed I was watching him lean back in his chair, I was feeling hopeless and dejected, thinking…”this guy wants everything to be about him. He wants to lean back, he’s never going to be able to give me what I want, because I want a man who leans forward toward me…”
    I felt sick in my gut, so I took a chance and told him, “I’m noticing your body language, and the story I’m making up about it is this….”
    He grinned, said, “that’s quite a story!”, we were both silent.
    After about a minute of me feeling uncomfortable and him smiling, he said, “Well, I don’t know which way you are facing but I may actually have my back to you,” and I cracked up laughing.

    We figured out which way was north, and turns out, him fully facing me on camera was him being faced away from me in ‘real’ space…so I started fake pouting and cracking, “see, now you’ve turned your back on me, left me all alone in this cruel world…”
    We both giggled and I felt a lot better.

    I could feel how attached I was to the story of how he somehow couldn’t be the guy for me, it’s the story I’ve told myself over and over again in a hundred million variations…

    and he’s so not attached to any outcome, he’s perfectly happy to help me move, financially, and if I decide I’m not ready and need to do something else, with someone else, he’s totally fine with it, he is doing what feels good and right for him to do, and he’s doing it for himself from his own sense of inspiration, so no worries that there is any need for blame or shame if I flip out and change my mind, because he is his own man and has really thought it through and allowed for that possibility and wants to move forward anyway, which provides me with a sense of relief and safety.

  145.  #145zara on April 20, 2013 at 7:54 pm

    Sunday, 18 October 2009

    Okay…just got this from a member of my Customer Service team, Jolene, who helps us all by sorting through all my emails before forwarding them to me…and it was like getting hit with a light bulb…

    “Rori, Have you ever posed a question to your bloggers about why they don’t do Circular Dating and continue to try to analyze and wait around for a man? It just seems to me that the letters we get (like the ones you addressed in recent eletters) are from women who still don’t get it. Or maybe they know, but they just don’t want to do it. Why don’t they want to do it? Jolene”

    And here’s the thing:

    When we’re “into” a man…it’s SO HARD to do anything that feels the slightest bit different. We think we’re being disloyal. We feel guilty.

    Because we’re AFRAID!!

    We’re truly terrified of rocking the boat.

    We’re afraid of making him mad.

    We’re afraid that if WE flirt with other men to keep ourselves strong and diva-like, HE’LL start flirting with other women just to keep EVEN with us!

    AND…I HAVE heard of things like this happening…but NOT for the reason you think!

    Are we so afraid of displeasing a man who has not committed to us that we FREEZE ourselves?

    Are we so afraid of facing, head-on and truthfully, what IS ACTUALLY going on in a relationship that is making US unhappy – that we just tolerate “whatever”?

    That we just…WAIT?

    Now..how does THAT image feel?

    The problem happens when we start Circular Dating to “get back” at a man. or to play “games,” or to “play hard to get.”

    Anything you do on the outside that’s FAKE, that’s meant to cause some sort of reaction in a man is playing with fire, and is working AGAINST YOU.

    What you want to do is BECOME “hard to get.” For REAL.

    That means, you have options, and YOU are in a position to CHOOSE him or….NOT!!

    In other words…where does a man “get off” sewing up your time, energy and love…without life-long commitment? I mean…”Really!”

    Yes, Circular Dating might make your man ANGRY.

    The thing is…so WHAT??!! So WHAT if he gets angry?

    Those of us who’ve lived our lives trying to get what we want and need with sugar and honey, and working to win people over and be liked, and those of us who’ve been actually abused, and so tried to “get along” in order to simply SURVIVE…are afraid of doing ANYTHING that might anger someone else.

    We are always in a position of “explaining” ourselves. We are always concerned about “hurting” him (actually we’re concerned with angering him”).

    We always think it’s up to US to “make the peace.”

    And Circular Dating is sort of radical. It’s subversive to all that. It’s putting your OPTIONS ahead of someone else’s feelings. It’s not trying to get what you want by giving someone else what he wants.

    It’s simply being forthright, open, vulnerable, truthful, and pro-active about what YOU want, and allowing everyone (and believe me there are TONS of great men who are despairing of ever finding a woman who actually has HER OWN RUDDER and follows her OWN DREAM) to want to connect to YOU.

    It is becoming the object of desire rather than remaining the “chaser” of desire.

    It’s a completely different way to live your life, in which loyalty and fidelity and exclusivity are EARNED by a man, rather than somehow “expected.” It’s flying in the face of convention and convenience and what we all did in high school. It’s being willing to live without a “boyfriend” because what you want is a ‘husband” and “family.”

    So…no WONDER you’re not Circular Dating? Well – I’m here (we’re ALL here, in this wonderful community) to CHANGE that convention. To CHANGE that “expectation.” To END the “rules” of the “game” as they stand now. And to actually END the GAME.

    There IS no game. Not anymore. There’s only you, what you want and need and deserve, and the men who “get that” and want to be with you.

    There is no more time, energy and love left for any man who does not want you.

    The days of settling for less love are over.

    The days of calling being loved by a good man “settling” just because he doesn’t fit your “mental picture” of what you want in a man…are OVER.

    Circular Dating is not a game. It’s not a strategy. It’s a therapeutic, pro-active Tool to get your Masculine energy engaged in the SERVICE of your Feminine self. It’s a Tool to get you out in the world so you can PRACTICE the Inner work of the Siren you truly are.

    I’m your head cheerleader…so let’s get on with this. Get your toes wet in the ideas of Circular Dating, learn how to do it for REAL. (Not how you imagine I mean you to do it, or how you guess or piece together how I mean for you to do it…there are very subtle and important things about doing this right that make all the difference in how your “vibe” will shift for the good of your life, and doing it half-way or with the wrong mind-set will just keep you where you are and allow you to say “it didn’t work”…when it DOES WORK!!!)

    Let me know how my Targeting Mr. Right program helps you. If you don’t have it yet, take a look at the letter I’ve written around it on my catalog page over on the “sidebar’ here – just that letter alone will help you understand how Circular Dating actually works.

    Let me know how I can best help you to move from focusing on one man to Circular Dating…and to get what you want!

    Love, Rori

  146.  #146seahorse on April 20, 2013 at 8:32 pm

    I rewrote the whole of the last post in my journal. I feel giggly. Hehehehehehe Thank you Zara

  147.  #147zara on April 20, 2013 at 9:51 pm

    Rori Raye’s Rules For Landing The Perfect Man
    Friday, 27 June 2008

    What IS a perfect man, anyway?

    If you believe you’ve ever had one, or have one in your mind, take out a piece of paper and write down the “qualities” you think made him “perfect” or WILL make him “perfect.”

    Now take a look at your list. Maybe you’ve written down things like “attractive (or even handsome), financially secure, sensitive, likes animals, generous…”

    Well, my Rules are this (actually – it’s just one Rule to start): It doesn’t matter what you’ve written on the list, or how good he looks on paper, or even how good he looks in real life. His qualities DON’T MATTER.

    The only thing that matters is this entry on your list: “When I’m with him, and even when I’m NOT with him – I feel loved, cared for, happy and secure. “ That’s it.

    Who he is and How he is mean nothing. How you FEEL with a man is ALL that counts. And I don’t mean how you feel about HIM. I don’t mean how much YOU love HIM, or how excited you feel, or how much “chemistry” there is, or how much “fun” you have together, or how great sex is, or how much you have “in common.” None of that means ANYTHING. We’re often devastatingly attracted to men who are emotionally unavailable or not mature enough to truly be in a committed, real relationship, and then end up literally devastated.

    The only thing that means anything is how you feel about YOURSELF in his presence.

    So take out your piece of paper and turn it over. Now write a list of how you want to FEEL about YOURSELF in your “perfect” RELATIONSHIP! (Remember – this is about the Relationship, not about the man.) Let me know how it feels to look at relationship this way, and we’ll talk more and more about how all this works.


    Rori Raye

  148.  #148zara on April 20, 2013 at 10:08 pm

    Good Guys And High Quality Guys – Are They The Same?
    Thursday, 22 March 2012

    Here’s a letter from Bethany, with a problem I hear all the time from nearly every woman I work with:

    “Dear Rori,

    After I thought about things, I felt better. But then he tracked me down and wanted to see if I wanted to go to a concert that night with him and his friend, and I said yes because I thought why not, I want to really examine how I feel about myself when I’m with him…terrible, actually. He didn’t pay for me, okay, it was a $15 ticket, but then bought himself $3 beers and didn’t offer to get me one…and would put his hand on my back occasionally but didn’t kiss me, and then wanted me to sleep over!

    I said no and he drove me home, then today I ran into him on his bike and he asked me what I’m doing tonight and I said I’m meeting with this guy whose novel I’m editing (John, a friend of his) at 8 pm, then he said he would probably just be hanging out at home.

    Then he said, “Well, tell John I said hi…” I said “okay,” and he left. Then I felt like crying. I don’t know why.

    This guy must be a huge loser.

    So why do I let him make me feel so bad? He obviously doesn’t want me anymore, and that makes me feel awful…just awful.

    I wish I could feel that there are better things out there for me, I just have 6 weeks of boring, miserable small town life before I can get away and into the big pond of a bigger city…

    Rori, are there guys out there who are fun and exciting and attractive who also won’t make me feel like crap?

    I want to believe that but I’ve only ever known the losers I meet in this tiny state…who I somehow pull in.

    I want to believe but I just haven’t ever known anything else. And I’m so angry and hurt that he’s pulling away from me and treating me like I’m second class. So hurt. I’m trying to feel my way through it but I’m at work right now and can’t afford to break down crying. Why does he act like he doesn’t care? I don’t understand… Bethany”

    My Answer:

    I want to help Bethany here with PERSPECTIVE, and just offer her a different view of the situation that can help her to FEEL BETTER.

    And remember – that’s always our number one priority – to help ourselves to FEEL BETTER – moment by moment, so that we can lift ourselves up PERMANENTLY to a much happier place.

    And then, of course, we attract a much better man…and it just gets better and better from there:

    So – here’s my answer:

    Bethany – Sometimes the universe is helping you get away from someone like him.

    Your background is pulling you toward men who can’t do the job – but the Universe is pulling you AWAY!!!!

    Look at it like that! The Universe is HELPING you.

    There are men around you RIGHT NOW who would KILL to kiss you.

    __This guy is totally not even in consideration for a suitor, much less a serious suitor.

    __A suitor NEVER stops trying and working to make you HAPPY.

    __That is your standard.

    You’ve been living in a small pond. You don’t know what’s out there.

    __What you want is a good man who’s happy enough in his life and work.

    __He doesn’t have to be RICH – just stable, emotionally and financially – and be AFFECTIONATE.

    __Affection (not neediness) goes a LONG WAY with us women.

    You’re looking for the guy who invented Facebook – something really cool – the guy who’s going to save the world.

    __Keep your standards high for how a man treats you – not for his standing in the world.

    __ and keep: receiving affection and good feelings at the very top of the list.

    Just use this time to detach from the old stuff and look toward the new stuff.

    Explore the small pond and see if you can start to differentiate between good guys, and guys who aren’t high enough quality.

    And explore the bigger pond: Putting yourself on Match.com, OKCupid and all the other sites large and small for the larger cities and other cities near you will give you a whole new source of men to Circular Date with and see if the important qualities of men who find YOU there get better and better.

    ((I know there are many arguments around this…and, as always…I choose to look at the statistics that FEEL GOOD (and there are MANY)…and to look at the REAL results so many of my clients get when they shift their inner argument about the possibilities and find themselves unexpectedly in the arms of good men….))

    That’s what Circular Dating is for! To explore your world and explore yourself – out there IN the world!

    Love, Rori

  149.  #149zara on April 20, 2013 at 10:25 pm


    I feel giggly that you feel giggly 🙂
    It feels good

  150.  #150zara on April 20, 2013 at 10:36 pm


    I felt mesmerized by the quality of the interactions, the good will toward each others, the intent to learn and share. I felt fascinated by the window opened into a man’s perspective. Priceless.

  151.  #151k2012 on April 20, 2013 at 10:50 pm

    “Slight snag though…he had a wife and children”. I feel it for the writer-warriorgirl. Difficult situation. This is not a slight snag at all, this is a major snag. She has received wonderful advice from the ladies on here as usual. And from Rori. Dr Sheri Meyers has a book on that issue:Is it chatting or Cheating” although if Warrior is engaging in Cyber sex, she is cheating as she is married. The man is also cheating too. I would also suggest counselling for Warrior too, both she and her husband. Wow, ladies, I was catching up on the blog. Cyber sex! Wow. Technology is something else. I have done it before and gosh it turned me on big time. Virginia: its so nice to see u here. I am still reading your book. Its very, very interesting and boy u have been through some rough times in finding the right man. I have so many books to read, some of which I have not bought yet that I have decided when I finish reading Steve Harvey’s book, Virginia’s ebook and one of Jonathan’s books on Long distance( which I haven’t even started yet) then I will buy other books like Rori’s catalogue at the special day price. I am too busy. Its wonderful to subscribe to u all these coaches. I have tons of newsletters to read as I can be very busy. Newsletters from u Virginia, Rori and the others. The newsletters, articles, the books are extremely helpful.

  152.  #152zara on April 20, 2013 at 10:54 pm

    118: Smile says:

    “He wanted to meet as friends, I told him I dint want to be his friend. He said it’s complicated but he missed me and my smile. He is with his ex. Truth is he’s not what I want anymore. I know this now. I see it so clearly without even meeting up with him.”

    You rock!!!!!!

  153.  #153k2012 on April 20, 2013 at 11:01 pm

    I am sitting at my desk here doing some work and catching up on the blog and I am going to very frank tonight. I am horny. Indeed I am. Since disappearing ex disappeared (well that’s how he got his name, lol), I haven’t had sex. What in the world do u all do when there is no man and u are horny? I hope I am not offending anyone and if I am, please forgive me. But boy, its rough. The last time I did anything was July last year, 9 months ago and it wasn’t all that great. What do u all do when there is no man around and you are feeling aroused? I feel embarassed now asking this question.

  154.  #154Tereana on April 20, 2013 at 11:23 pm

    Ooh, I just did the power speech with dCD.

    Feels kinds good ; )

  155.  #155Tereana on April 20, 2013 at 11:40 pm

    * kinda good

    See, it was a whole week since I saw him. And it was bugging me. It wouldn’t let me go. So this morning, I texted him a little “I miss you…” text. He sent back a smiley, ANC we exchanged a feeds messages. But all the time, I’m feeling unsettled. Like why are things cooling off? Is he seeing someone? Why did it not bother him when I went out dancing without him – and basically had a date with A that I didn’t tell him about? Maybe he is just really secure or it didn’t occur to him that I might date other men. But seriously, not even a “how are you?” during the week. Even my female CD did better than that! ; ) lol

    Meanwhile, I went to the beach, and this REALLY hot guy started talking to me. Another black dude. But I really liked his voice. And I just lay there in my bikini and listened to him jabber away about himself. When he got up to walk away, OMG – sooooooo Hott. Ah! He of course texted me later and wants to meet up. I suspect he is younger than me. All of that is totally fine… : )

    So tonight – and really, again, I just have the gut feeling that dCD is interested in someone else. Not that it matters. I never thought he was my “soul mate” anyway. And I didn’t tell him I thought that. But I did say that I think he’s cute, and I know he’s busy. So If he wants to keep seeing me, okay, but I’ll be seeing other people also. I have no agenda. I know that I’m not trying to get him to “do” anything. Basically, no attachment to outcome. (NATO!) I know Obama attractive to lots of guys, so I don’t want to settle too quickly for a guy who’s basically giving me the bare minimum. If he wants to keep other guys from dating me – okay. But otherwise, I’ll be dating other guys.

    And Rori is right – when you say it, and you mean it, it does feel powerful : D

  156.  #156Tereana on April 20, 2013 at 11:47 pm

    K2012 – I love that you are being so blunt and honest on the blog. Totally fine and not offensive!! It just makes me wonder why we have to feel so bad about having sexual desires. I mean, really it comes along with having a body – not having a sexual appetite would be more of a problem!

    But I digress… Seriously, girl, have you never self-pleasured? Because if you haven’t, then you need to get on that right now. I mean, like, right now ; ) lol. I’m not going to tell you how to do it. You can get creative. But that’s pretty much the way. And there is NOTHING wrong with it. Really.

    Dominique has some great stuff to say about this topic…

  157.  #157Smile on April 20, 2013 at 11:54 pm

    Zara@152 thank you!
    That message makes me feel awesome! 🙂

  158.  #158Smile on April 21, 2013 at 12:00 am


    Omg… I’m sooooo excited for you!!! Get pleasing yourself girl and find out how you loved to be pleased. That way not only are you taking care of yourself but when a man comes into yourlife who you want to share this with you can tell him exactly what pleases you 🙂

    I’ve always been in relationships since age 14-28, all back to back with no space to be single. I had no need to pleasure myself as I was sexually active in my relationships.

    When I found myself single last year I realised how much I’d missed out on!!!! Oh my goodness had I been missing out!!!
    Now sex is where I can get pleasures because I know how lol 🙂 still a lot more to explore on this.

    Dominique is the coach for this k2021!

  159.  #159Smile on April 21, 2013 at 12:02 am

    Thanks ALA!!!@120

  160.  #160Smile on April 21, 2013 at 12:11 am

    Sirens… I need some help re dating profiles please

    We both still have ours there, although we don’t subscribe so don’t have full access. We spoke about it on holiday but just kind of left it at that. He said he hadn’t been on since he met me and had no reason to and I had no reason to use it either.

    He’s spoken about a future with me etc were exclusive and on way to committed ie we don’t live together but it’s on the cards.

    I want him to take it down now. Last night I went on with my friends as we were introducing her to it. She’s nervous and never used it before. So we searched for some guys. The whole time I was dreading his profile coming up invade they saw it and wondered why it’s still there.

  161.  #161smile on April 21, 2013 at 1:14 am

    So… I went on pof to see if he still had it on there… It said user had closed account!!! Halleluia!!! I can feel myself jumping for joy inside 🙂 not sure bout match one though but all my fear around this had gone 🙂

  162.  #162smile on April 21, 2013 at 1:20 am

    His match profile is still there 🙁

  163.  #163smile on April 21, 2013 at 2:47 am

    I have suspended my online dating account. I wonder why I didn’t delete it? Do I think I’m going to need it again? This is my fear again 🙁

    Dominique… From your recent article…

    the hesitancy around his pretty words, loving them yet wondering whether they’re genuine. AND the wanting to know whether this man is actually your “the one”, or this all an illusion.

    This describes me at the minute 🙁

  164.  #164Indigo on April 21, 2013 at 3:31 am


    Do you think you could give yourself time?

    To me your hesitancy and his seems quite normal for the relatively early phases of a relationship. You’ve only been together a few months haven’t you?

    As you grow more intimate and feel more safe, you may find these things resolve themselves on their own.

  165.  #165Butterfly Wings on April 21, 2013 at 4:40 am

    Hi everyone! It’s been a long time since my last visit so I thought I’d check in.

    I met a guy (called S) in January who works away 4 weeks at a time. During this time he calls/texts almost every single day, and we saw each other a few times when he came home. And while it was only supposed to be a “fun” FWB thing, I started to feel for him.

    So on Friday I knew I had to end the “benefits” part of our friendship, otherwise I’d get hurt. I told him tonight how I felt and that I needed to walk away for my own wellbeing. I didn’t blame him (he is not to blame), and it ended on very good terms.

    I feel really sad that it’s over, but also glad that I was able to end it before I got hurt.

    Meanwhile I’ve been CDing like crazy the last few months, and especially in the last few weeks.

    I have had two other men texting me tonight, one of which has started to fall for me. So it’s not like I’m left feeling all alone…!

    Mr NYE, after poofing in January, returned in March. Then he poofed again a few weeks ago.

    But because I’m CDing, it was just like a blip on the radar and nothing more. Phew!

  166.  #166k2012 on April 21, 2013 at 5:54 am

    Hey Tereana and Smile, thanks for your suggestions. I was laughing when I read your posts. I know what u mean when u said self pleasure. I have done it before. I couldn’t concentrate on my work last night as a result of the sexual feelings I had. I did work still u know but went to bed about 1 pm (my time). Lol, well that was still late anyway. Its hard I am telling you. Looking forward to the real thing. I am confident that God has someone for me, somewhere and I am praying about finding a husband practically every night or every other night.

  167.  #167BeLoved on April 21, 2013 at 6:02 am

    Ugh, having second and third and fifth and hundredth thoughts now…
    Gonna have to sit and really write this out.

  168.  #168Emoticon on April 21, 2013 at 6:24 am

    Hi, Happy Sunday to Everybody 🙂

  169.  #169seahorse on April 21, 2013 at 7:19 am

    Happy Sunday to you too Emoticon!

    I loved reading k2012. I hear you siren!!! Feels really good to know I’m not alone in that department. I have been giving ‘bright eyed and bushy tailed’ a whole new definition. Hahahahahahah!!!! Cracked myself up!!!

    Zara- Thank you for puttting up those post. I did more journal entries with them. Yay me!!!!

    Have a beautiful lovely FEELING Sunday sirens! I’m off to the beach for flirting and exercise………… and oogling:) Tally Ho!!!!!!!

  170.  #170prplpsn28 on April 21, 2013 at 8:02 am

    I leaned back and he came forward. H contacted me last night. 🙂

  171.  #171Olivia on April 21, 2013 at 8:07 am

    Wow, this Terrance post is just what I needed.

    An old friend from overseas wrote me asking for advice about which of two women he should pursue. Woman #1 1 he has been in an off-and-on relationship for 7 years. Lots of drama, but lots of LOVE.

    Woman #2 is our mutual friend, who he recently reconnected with. He is living in the ‘fantasy’ world that everything would be right if he ran off with her and his doubts about Woman #1 would be resolved.

    Both are great girls!

    In my response, I tried to tease out whether his woman was a “Rori girl” to suggest that if she is, and he is able to make her happy by ‘being himself’ most of the time, the relationship has a good shot of long-term happiness.

    And his response to me suggested she IS a Rori girl and he DOES know how to make her happy and LOVES her and I got so angry at him because he is still thinking about leaving ANYWAYS! GRRRR!

    This Terrance chain reminds me of the strife men can have balancing the gut/consideration factors. Something in his gut is OFF about Woman #1.

    I feel more empathy towards him now. That feels good.

    Considering what to write back to him….

    AND I want to be a Rori certified coach someday!

    Putting that out there to the universe!


  172.  #172TMI on April 21, 2013 at 8:23 am

    The most recent posts have helped me understand that I’m still not doing this right. I’m working on the ONLY feeling messages but now I see that I’m not making this about me. I’m doing it for a result like training my dogs. 🙁

    I’m unsure of how to circular date while married. I trust myself but I can’t help but feel even being friendly to another man is “cheating”.

    Beautiful girl, you can do this!!

    Thanks ladies.

  173.  #173TMI on April 21, 2013 at 8:26 am

    If I circular date myself and anyone I encounter, is it unfair to myself or my husband. I just had an a-ha that he is kind of circular dating as well.

  174.  #174TMI on April 21, 2013 at 8:27 am

    If I circular date myself and anyone I encounter, is it unfair to myself or my husband to continue sexual relations with my husband?

    I just had an a-ha that he is kind of circular dating as well.

  175.  #175prplpsn28 on April 21, 2013 at 8:35 am

    I’m with TMI…cd’ing does seem like cheating to me. I can’t get past that feeling. I would not like it at all if H was cd’ing. And I know what Rori says about being commited and exclusive. But….I don’t see having to be living together, engaged, or married in order to have that. Sorry..but my view. I was even told on here by more then one person that what H said to me meant that we are commited and exclusive. ??? I hear so many contridicting things. It confuses me.

  176.  #176Indigo on April 21, 2013 at 8:42 am

    TMI and Purple,

    Rori talks about CDing right into when you are married. It does not have to involve cheating. You can choose to be sexually and physically exclusive with one man.

    You can CD yourself. CDing is a tool to stop yourself getting hung up on one man, it is about making yourself the centre of your life, and practicing receiving. It does not have to be doing something wrong, as it is not about giving your love or your heart or your body to another man.

    Rori’s point is that, if it is YOUR MAN who is choosing to distance himself, then you make yourself available to receiving good things from other sources, rather than sitting around waiting for him.

    Hope this helps 🙂 xx

  177.  #177Kristine on April 21, 2013 at 8:45 am

    There is a great book I read by Natalie Liu called Mr. Unavailable and the Fallback Girl. She really explains why women get into fantasy relationships and how to get out of them. She also has a website called Baggage Reclaim. We often enter fantasy relationships like this one, because its so much easier than dealing with the feelings we have and the fear of vulnerability/intimacy involved in a real relationship. Its an avoidance/self-protection mechanism, but it backfires because in the end we are actually hurting ourselves MORE (as Warrior Girl described with the fact that it hurts) than the pain we would feel by taking a RISK on a real, healthy, relationship, in person, with a real man.

    My view is NEVER get involved in an online relationship. Its NOT real. You have to take it to the next level and be able to TALK in person. To really get to know someone. Words on a computer screen, or even over a video connection, are NOT REAL. You will never know a person’s true character that way and you will not get what you truly expect, which is a REAL relationship. Not getting your expectations met = pain.

    Once you stop avoiding what it is you really want, and take ACTION to put yourself out there to connect with LIVE people, you will open yourself up to a REAL relationship and it will happen. Problem is YOU have to get over your FEAR of letting it happen – fear of meeting people in person and getting to know them as live human beings. Don’t be afraid. If you are a true Warrior Girl, which I know you are, you will feel the fear and do it anyway!


  178.  #178BeLoved on April 21, 2013 at 8:48 am

    Profile back up on POF.
    I can stop freaking myself out.
    I feel a sigh of relief.
    We aren’t exclusive, and if I need to get out and see more of the pond then that’s fine by T, he’s not attached to any outcome.
    I’m up for some adventure and I will feel a lot better when I arrive in OR if I’ve been CDing and living my life, enjoying myself than if I shut myself down. I may even make some new friends and have new resources by the time I leave 🙂
    Feeling SO much better.
    Gotta stay focused on the spirit of adventure..!
    I can do this.

  179.  #179T-Girl on April 21, 2013 at 8:55 am

    CD’ing while in a relationship can mean smiling and making small talk to the butcher, going out with your girlfriends, taking a ballroom dance class, getting a pedicure etc. It doesnt need to mean actually dating.

  180.  #180BeLoved on April 21, 2013 at 9:00 am

    Yah, it’s just my pattern to spin so instead of fighting it or trying to get out of the spin like I usually do, which only makes it worse, I’m gonna roll with the crazy and spin and flip-flop and let my mind work itself out…

  181.  #181Kristine on April 21, 2013 at 9:14 am

    CD’ing is not cheating! Perhaps DATING is not the right word and is causing the confusion. People think DATING means sex, or being sexual, or some other form of cheating behaviour…with an intent to be unfaithful to yourself or to your partner, or with an intent to find someone new to replace them.

    That is not the purpose or intent of Rori’s term Circular Dating. In Rori’s world, DATING, simply means GOING OUTSIDE and MEETING people who come across your path and getting to know them.

    You can DATE yourself for starters. Get to know what it is you like or love. Take yourself to a movie. Get in touch with your feelings. Then, once you are comfortable DATING yourself, you take it up one level to getting to know other people, making new women friends, smiling at strangers on the street, accepting help from the grocer who wants to load up your car, asking about their family…. this is CIRCULAR DATING in Rori’s world. Its not about the outcome. Its NOT about SEEKING a new partner.

    Women who have trouble DATING and keeping it casual are fixating on a RESULT. They think Dating means SNAGGING a husband or a boyfriend. That is not what real DATING is.

    I had a huge problem with this. I didn’t know what DATING was supposed to be. With media, and sexualization of women, and talk by men about getting sex by the 3rd DATE, I was completely naive as to what dating is really supposed to be. I never realized that there is ANOTHER type of dating. Its more old fashioned…its what kids did in the 50s and 60s. No one had sex before marriage (or atleast being engaged) in my parents’ generation. Girls went out on dates with many suitors at one time. It was NORMAL to go dancing with Johnny on Saturday and movie night with Frank on Wednesday. There is nothing wrong or bad about that. And men in those days knew it to. It was a healthy process of getting to know a girl and finding out if she was the right one for you, to become your wife, and vice versa. My grandfather used to say, pick a husband like you pick a pair of good fitting silk gloves (in those days women wore gloves).

    Modern women today have lost sight of what DATING is supposed to be or mean. It is simply a process of getting to know a lot of different people and having the POWER to CHOOSE who you want to spend time with. Whether or not it leads to a RELATIONSHIP or MARRIAGE is totally up to you.

    I am married and I have made my own rule that I don’t have male FRIENDS (I prefer GIRL FRIENDS). However, I still get to know and am nice to male colleagues, male strangers, male shop keepers, men I meet in my surroundings. That is considered CD’ing. It makes me feel good to know that there are REAL men out there who want to HELP women and just do nice things for them without any expectation. THERE IS NO SEX or romance involved. Its just manly. We have to learn to appreciate REAL MEN. They are GOOD men. They are our brothers, cousins, aunts, sons, fathers…hopefully. Yes there are some problematic men out there with issues, but you will LEARN to spot them and avoid them. CHOOSE the GOOD ones and don’t be AFRAID to let them into your world and be of service to you. And APPRECIATE them for what they can do. Be OPEN and RECEPTIVE to letting them help you and give to you. Get to know them. You are not CHASING them or hunting for them. They just show up in your life and you accept them as caring human beings. That is CD’ing and its NOT being unfaithful to your partner. If your partner cannot handle another man helping you lift a heavy box, or open a door for you, or you thanking them or asking about their day, that’s HIS problem, not yours.

    And if you cannot handle your MAN helping another woman, and think that he is being “unfaithful”, that is your problem too.

    I am totally greatful that I have a husband who likes to help women, like his sister, his mom, his colleagues and of course me (the most). I don’t feel threatened by it because I am secure in his love for me. That is a REAL man and I recognized it as soon as we started dating. I honor that side of him. The masculine side. It’s normal and good.


  182.  #182Kristine on April 21, 2013 at 9:19 am

    Oops, I said aunts..ha ha.. I meant Uncles… I was typing too fast..

  183.  #183Violette on April 21, 2013 at 9:42 am

    A guy asked me out for tomorrow night last week, but said he wasn’t able to write down my address and asked me to call him another time to give it to him. I said ok, then realized I fell dumb calling him, and would prefer to let him call me for it…which I expect he will do if he plans to pick me up! I don’t know why I have nervousness around it, like he won’t do it or something, or like I’m doing something wrong. I don’t think I am, at all, but I’m feeling insecure…could I get some input from you all? Thanks.

  184.  #184Kristine on April 21, 2013 at 9:51 am

    Hi Violette,

    If he asked you out and has your number, he has to call you to get your address. You don’t need to call men. You are the Goddess and have to accept your powerfulness. Get used to being pursued.

    And if he doesn’t call, don’t sit around waiting. Plan something else fun to do for yourself. Rejection is a part of life. And its not a big deal. You have to realize as a mature adult that people are different and not everyone will want the same things as you do.

    So if he doesn’t really want to go out with you, so be it. Keep open, keep smiling, and keep meeting new people.


  185.  #185Kristine on April 21, 2013 at 9:57 am


    And the fact that you said “ok”, doesn’t matter. If a guy asked me to call him…I’d just say “sure” and forget about it. If he’s really interested, he will track you down and he wouldn’t ask you to take the lead. He would ask “can I call you?”.

    My gut feeling is he’s not really that interested since he was putting the ball in your court. Don’t fall for that. He’s trying to get you to pursue him. If you do, if you call, he will lose any attraction he may have had for you. Just forget about him and see what happens. Its men’s jobs to pursue…


  186.  #186Kristine on April 21, 2013 at 10:14 am

    When I was single and dating, I met several men, online and in person, who used the standard opening line… “call me”, “text me”, or “email me”.

    My advice? FORGET THEM. They are out there, a dime a dozen. Guys who DON’T want to row the boat. Guys who DON’T want to HELP, please or give to women. Guys who want you to pursue them.

    Look for the ones who ask “May I call you?” or ask for your number. The ones who WANT to row the boat for you.

    They are out there too! In great numbers, believe me. But where are they, you ask???

    If you have trouble meeting guys like that, who like to GIVE as opposed to TAKE, YOU have to change! YOU have to STOP GIVING to men and wasting your energy on them. If YOU stop, there will be a void in your life for NEW BETTER men to enter. Its a universal principle. Matter abhors a vacuum. So create a vacuum in your life by NOT responding to those men who ask you to call them.

    Be open and receptive to men. Then WAIT for them to call you. Then you can respond.

    And while you are waiting, FOCUS on OTHER people and things that make you happy!!!


  187.  #187Lisa on April 21, 2013 at 10:14 am

    C’dating considered cheating…? I circle date and have for a long while… My thoughts are.. be real clear when your in a relationship what is cheating! My current boyfriend and I discussed it clearly. I don’t consider a peck on the lips cheating, and he feels that kissing is what differentiates friends from lovers. So, we have an agreement. My partner prior to that, didn’t care if a peck on the lips happened, he did the same to my friends.. Different relationship, different agreements. I also think that in today’s world of co-dependency and such that sometimes we feel that our ropes have to be tight on our spouse or partner to keep them faithful. I don’t feel that way. If I don’t try to control someone, ( b/c you never can anyway) then freedom seems to most loving thing to do. Circle dating is that for me… to be me! a happy, cheerful, kind, giving, and loving person and that I can be that to a perfect stranger and get to know them, be present with them, even become friends with them. I most certainly want “M” to do the same. I wouldn’t dare constrain his world in such a way to force myself to be ” it all” for him. I want him to be a Man in all ways he needs to be in order to feel complete and happy, within the agreement we both have with each other in our commitment. I love circle dating and it makes me feel good about myself and a more complete me. On a side note “M” needed to go to bed early last night and I wanted to go to the kava bar and chill, and I did… I noticed this morning he as all about me.. excited to see me and moving towards me… and that is b/c I did what made me happy and it made me feel good and I was not clingy or needy.. I just did it.. and I’m really starting to see the small shifts it makes from when I’m needy and leaning towards him and when I’m standing strong, confident and not focused on him, doing what makes me happy.

  188.  #188Kristine on April 21, 2013 at 10:20 am

    Great post Lisa! A perfect example of when you focus on yourself and doing what makes you happy, the GOOD men will come forward. You’re a GODDESS! Keep it up!


  189.  #189Kristine on April 21, 2013 at 10:47 am

    Calling all GODDESSES! YES that means YOU!

    While this is a great forum to post your concerns, problems and ask questions, I’d also like to hear MORE about the GODDESSY things you have done…what have you been working on…the baby steps you have taken, the leaning back examples, the “not rowing the boat” or pursuing tips??

    I think we need to post more about the little achievements, the forward progression we are all making. We need to CELEBRATE the accomplishments, our growth, big or small. Let’s cheer each other on, shall we?

    The support on this board is tremendous and the more we support each other, and acknowledge our baby steps, the better we feel and know we are on the right track! We all make mistakes, but let’s not dwell on them. Let’s focus on what we do right, going forward, instead of all the wrongs of the past…

    I’m sure there are some lurking GODDESSES out there who can add value to this board by posting about their successes too! Hearing from you on how Rori’s tools have worked for you and how you’ve applied them, is very helpful. It inspires us all. No step is too small. Please share your positive experiences.

    YAY to sisterhood!


  190.  #190Linda G on April 21, 2013 at 11:29 am

    Kristine, I completely agree!
    I have discovered having options, circular dating, saying maybe, opens a whole new world, makes each interaction less desperate.

  191.  #191Angela on April 21, 2013 at 2:46 pm

    I need someones opinion on my situation. A few months ago I posted about being attracted to this guy in my neighborhood. I found this website Rori helped me see that it was imaginary yes he was flirting yet that was it. Months went by I’ve been avoiding him for a while just because I felt I was showing him my interest way too much. I was so desperate and needy and hard on myself. Since then every time I see him now he comes towards me he is more open and more nice. I know nothing is happening these are just moments. There are times when I am able to be super opened with him and give a super friendly hello. This morning though he came behind me and said “hi good morning AND i replied with a good morning. THen he said “it seems like finally we are seeing each other ” again” My mind was not there for some reason and the only thing that came out of my mind was yeah and I walked away. I felt very stupid and un siren like. I stopped beating myself up. But what if I am pushing this man away with my shyness? I wonder if there is a way to be ok with this that happened? I like his attention it feels like it should feel me being receiving but I feel like I am not doing my part.

  192.  #192Arachne on April 21, 2013 at 3:09 pm

    Kristine and Lisa – thank you so much for sharing what Circular Dating is for you! I feel inspired and grateful! 🙂

  193.  #193BeLoved on April 21, 2013 at 3:35 pm

    My heart is feeling strong and true and
    feels as if it’s remembering love
    real love
    not the piney, achey, painful stuff
    the real deal
    real love
    feels like a goldenrainbow of multidimensional color
    I feel it all through my body
    I feel the demand, the desire and I love how it fits with this post
    real real real love
    feeling it.

  194.  #194BeLoved on April 21, 2013 at 3:37 pm

    My heart feels so strong
    grabyouhugyouwon’tletyougo kind of yesness

  195.  #195Hana on April 21, 2013 at 4:10 pm

    This wonderful new man that came into my life, says he loves me, and even though we’re so new to each other, shows he loves me, it’s beautiful to have this attention on me, but I am so still helplessly in love with A that it’s killing me. I confessed to him that I am still feeling this way for someone else, and he wanted to know the details, he’s very special, this new guy because he really let’s me be me, and I feel comfortable to say how I feel and I don’t hide anything. I guess it’s easy for him to feel this way because even though I am open to dating and want to get over A and doing my best to do so, I want a good man and a good relationship, but this battle with the feeling over my ex is too much to bare, it’s killing me that I still want someone else so SO badly 🙁

  196.  #196Julie on April 21, 2013 at 4:14 pm

    Hi Rori
    I am sitting here feeling so low and churned up. At 52 after two divorces and several boyfriends I feel I just can not go through it all again.
    My boyfriend of 2 years and I have only spoken last week about getting a house together soon and yes I felt happy.
    Now discovered that my boyfriend had been emailing with someone early January and arranging a possible meet up. Not sure if they are in contact by mobile really hope not!
    I have been giving him so much support since Christmas with his mothers terminial illness. She is at present in the hospice and I am here now typing this sitting up late waiting to see if he needs me to go over to his for support. His Mum is about to pass away any hour. I am a giving caring and forgiving person ….but only just found out about the January emails today! I am feeling like someone has stuck a knife into me yet again! I have your programmes which have helped and thought my partner and i had moved forward. He has told me so many times during the last couple of months how much he loves me. He said there is no way he wants to loose me! His sister has confirmed this. I love him so much and thought at last this was it ! Not sure now if should lean back again! So difficult when he needs my support right now! Do not even know if he has met up with the other woman or stlil in contact with her. Please please help. Feel like I really can not deal with this.


  197.  #197Vi on April 21, 2013 at 4:39 pm

    Rory says CDing is about practicing to stay open and warm. It’s about getting aware of your feelings and what makes you feel good and what does not. It’s about choices and safe communication. It’s not always or necessarily sexual. And it’s about how to un-numb. To me it’s pretty much a way of life actually. And to me it’s also learning how to be more than just an extention of ‘him’ 🙂

  198.  #198Vi on April 21, 2013 at 4:43 pm


  199.  #199Honorine on April 21, 2013 at 5:29 pm

    Thanks for your input Kristine. That all makes sense.

  200.  #200Lisa on April 21, 2013 at 5:32 pm

    @vi I love how you put it… it keeps us warm and open.. and for me unconditionally loving… thanks! @Julie 195 my heart goes out to you… I don’t know what Rori’s advice would be … but for me, I would really go inward and take time out for myself… first… get clear and strong..get my emotions out..love myself, then talk and decide. That is so much to deal with right now…take care of you! Big hugs!

  201.  #201Millie on April 21, 2013 at 5:52 pm

    @175 Purple–

    Hi, just wanted to respond to your question about whether what your guy said meant the relationship is exclusive and committed. I had an experience with a man who when we talked about our relationship, said similar things–This is more than friends with benefits, I’m not seeing anyone else, I don’t want to see anyone else…etc. However, in hindsight what went unsaid from him was the clause “(for now).” It came out later on that while he loved what we had and didn’t want to let it go, he never had any intention of building a future with me. I mad A LOT of mistakes in that relationship, and I remember feeling insecure a lot. Part of that insecurity stemmed from his SAYING the right things, but not living up to them. For me, going forward, a man’s actions needs to measure up to his words, and I don’t want to feel like just because a man isn’t dating anyone else then we are automatically considered exclusive and he feels like he can say that to appease me, all the while, he knows I am just an “and” in his sentence instead of the period. A “for now” instead of a “forever.” I’m sure your situation is very different, but maybe my story helps you in some way.

    Since you are the only one that knows your guy, I would ask yourself how you felt when he said that. What did your gut tell you? Was that enough of a commitment statement for you or are you not ready to be exclusive yet until you hear_______ (fill in the blank)? Maybe if you still feel unclear, let him know and ask him to help you clear up your confusion. xo

  202.  #202Lisa on April 21, 2013 at 6:04 pm

    @Millie 199 I’m glad you brought that point up… I’ve had similar thoughts about my current situation. “M” ‘s actions haven’t really been up to par for what his words are… I’ve wondered and contemplated ending it b/c of it. It’s what isn’t being said that is the kicker here. He said to me “honey I’m committed to you, I love you, and I care about you. I don’t know what else to say” I said “gotcha loud and clear”… He ask me yesterday what I meant by that… I said, for today! and he said are you breaking up with me. I said no I’m saying you mean for today! I noticed that he didn’t elaborate…or clarify. So as much as I love him and care also, I’m not naive and I’ll give it one month.. if I haven’t spent the weekend with him and seen some action and filling in of the blanks.. I’m out. B/c I know what you mean… it’s what they don’t say that really speaks volumes. I love unconditionally, and I also look out for me. I won’t stay in a one sided relationship.

  203.  #203Millie on April 21, 2013 at 6:23 pm

    @Lisa–I hear you. It seems like what you’ve been saying throughout your posts is that his idea of commitment doesn’t look like your idea of commitment. I’m not sure what a conversation about that would look like. Are you seeing other people? I can’t remember if you mentioned that in your posts. Maybe dating other people is the answer here instead of leaving him high and dry?

    I was fortunate that when the man I spoke about in my post and I “broke up” he admitted to selfishly leading me on and feeling bad about it. In a way, he confirmed my insecurity. So, I definitely believe in listening not only to his words, but how you feel inside about them and trusting that.

  204.  #204Lisa on April 21, 2013 at 6:43 pm

    @Millie I’m Circle dating in that I hang out with my men friends.. and girl friends.. and hook up with groups to do things… he doesn’t like it.. but I’m not “dating” others.. but yes that is an option for me to say… that in my feeling voice.. I need to date other people.. until the commitment thing is on the same page.. Oh his idea of commitment is the same as mine.. he is the one that made it so crystal clear in the beginning he found what he wants.. and he wants to spend the next 40 years with me.. which I wasn’t even there yet… but after he said that things kind of shifted.. not verbally, but energetically… and though he is working on the relationship following through with dates and telling me he loves me and is so grateful I’m in his life.. singing me loves songs, and everything… what he said the other day spoke volumes… and I know when men that sometimes they decide that they have changed their “status” and don’t bother to tell you… so that’s when you have to read between the lines… they can change from I want to marry you to…your a for now girlfriend and not think twice about letting you know… I don’t think “M” is doing that … but again I have been with him for almost 4 mos and we haven’t spent an entire weekend together and he talked about it early on before we even kissed… so something is holding him back.. and I’m patient, but I’m not going to keep going like this…. I can love him dearly and still not stay committed to him in this manner.

  205.  #205prplpsn28 on April 21, 2013 at 6:55 pm

    I’m so completely confused at this point I feel like just dropping everything. The programs, the blog, him. Done

  206.  #206Vi on April 21, 2013 at 7:01 pm

    Hi Lisa, one of Rori’s Love Forever teleclasses is all about this warmth concept. Actually warmth approach works for me even better than the Unzip your Heart tool, because when I notice myself shut down and visualize I kinda turn a little heater in my heart on, I can literally feel my body softening and my shoulders and tummy relaxing. When I do Un-zip tool I notice just a sound of plastic zipper in my head and no feeling response.. 🙂 I feel a little guilty about it though *chucking*

  207.  #207Vi on April 21, 2013 at 7:16 pm

    Prplsn28 I see myself in this ‘Done’ thing. One of my earliest memories of myself is I am 5 or 4 and I feel alone and unloved and disregarded and I tell my parents ‘I’m dine’ and that I live the house ‘forewer’ and then I go and sit down on the porch.. and wait for the parents to come to me and take my small hand and it would prove they still love me and want me and we would go back home.. I remember our front door it looked so huge and made me feel so small.. sigh.. I feel so much compassion to my little gitl now.. sending hugs to your little girl too!

  208.  #208Lisa on April 21, 2013 at 7:25 pm

    @Vi Cool!! I haven’t seen that video yet. I can try and look it up. I actually do have warmth and love and vulnerability with him already… He tells me he feels how deeply I love and how open and feeling I am… he says it helps him feel.. I’m a very open/loving person..by nature. I haven’t shut down… however, even being open, warm and loving, I don’t have the control over what he sees and feels, has in his mind or his ability to make a commitment.. so I might have to leave.. like Rori says you can’t expect them to change only be an influence… I feel the need to honor my own happiness and quest for a fully committed relationship… all I can do it tell him how I feel, and wait to see what happens but for sure be willing and able to walk away… and find someone that is able. Still of course loving him and his path too!

  209.  #209Vi on April 21, 2013 at 7:27 pm

    Awww I feel so moved by my memory I didn’t mind my grammar and I feel afraid and I hear my moms voice (who is a teacher of English) telling me judgemental things.. I love my fear.. hehe.. at least I have no difficulty with other 2 languages..

  210.  #210Femininewoman on April 21, 2013 at 7:39 pm

    Hi Julie. I am wondering how you found out about the emailing and what did it say?

  211.  #211Vi on April 21, 2013 at 7:41 pm

    Awww Lisa 🙂 it feels so sireny and inspiring

  212.  #212Violette on April 21, 2013 at 7:42 pm

    Kristine I already replied but it doesn’t seem to have posted, thank you for your input. I agree with what you say.

  213.  #213Millie on April 21, 2013 at 7:42 pm

    @purple 203–
    I’m Sorry, I didn’t mean to confuse you…

  214.  #214Femininewoman on April 21, 2013 at 7:43 pm

    Hi Angela. Maybe you are but then again you are aware of yourself. He will come again

  215.  #215Lisa on April 21, 2013 at 7:56 pm

    @Vi 209 Awww thanks (blush) I didn’t realize…

  216.  #216Tereana on April 21, 2013 at 9:47 pm

    Well, I feel neutral about dCD now. He wrote back to me after my “power speech” and said that he “felt the same way.” only I’m not sure exactly what part he was referring to. I don’t want to ask if it means he wants to “date other people,” because I suspect it does, but if it is, then I don’t want to know. And I can’t tell if it’s my intuition telling me that, or a fear that it might be right. And so what? It doesn’t change anything.

    He could have meant that he agrees that he likes me, but he’s not ready for a real relationship now.

    He could have meant all of it.

    And I clarified and said that I don’t feel comfortable sleeping together more unless we are exclusive.

    He agreed with that, too.

    It was all pretty painless. He sent smilies.

    I guess I’m taking the pressure off, and also stepping back, because I could feel myself start to get ‘into’ him. But it’s premature, really, because we don’t really know each other. And he doesn’t quite fit the Rori “criteria.” that is, I feel safe with him – and that’s good. It’s a step. And I live that I can receive that. But what’s missing is the feeling of “loved” and “cared for” both with him and not with him. Cared for maybe, sometimes. Okay, definitely, yeah. I’m not sure if I feel loved. But than again, maybe “loved” doesn’t always feel how you expect it to feel.

    Anyway, I feel great that I stated my boundaries and where I was at. I don’t feel manipulated or manipulating.

    I actually had a big breakthrough moment from it, I think.

    And this may seem obvious, but I realized how uncomfortable it felt to give up “control.” like I out the ball in his court, and I really had no way to know what he would decide. But it was a “power” speech. And so I noticed that Power and Control are in fact directly opposite. Again, it may seem obvious to everyone here. But I feel like my upbringing was all about control – as if that was where “power” came from. Even though I knew that it didn’t. But at some point, that belief seeped in, because it was the most efficient way to “survive.” as a result, I’ve spent a lot of energy trying to get “control” of various things. But I have very little sense of power. It’s really the personal power that I want to feel. And that feels totally different. It feels like NO control – as well it should. But that feels scary at first…

    Anyway, all I know is, it really doesn’t matter what happens with this one guy. This is probably just an important step that I needed to take.

    And it feels powerful because I’m not controlling the outcome. And so it is less certain. But also it feels relaxed and not “charged.” and I’m going to go out on a limb and say that the lack of those feelings is actually a really good sign…

  217.  #217Angela on April 21, 2013 at 10:05 pm

    Thank you @ Femininewoman.
    Your comment makes me feel relaxed, it inspires me to be confident and let things flow naturally : ).
    And be more forgiving towards myself which is what makes self love possible for me.

  218.  #218Indigo on April 21, 2013 at 10:36 pm


    I liked your post. Power does indeed feel like a loss of control. But I feel like, imagine where you could be putting that energy if you’re not trying to control things?

  219.  #219Indigo on April 21, 2013 at 10:42 pm

    I have to say, I put a great deal of personal growth into not competing with or feeling insecure around other women. I have put a lot of my own effort into accepting myself and accepting others, and to feeling calm and accepting of the good things that come to me, and the good things that come to others.

    And so I find that it does not feel good to have girlfriends where there is this undercurrent of insecurity, or a kind of one-upmanship, or where I feel a little off balance, like I’ve found myself in the middle of a game that I didn’t sign up for.

    It feels good to have girlfriends where the interaction is clean and clear, and I can say what I think and feel, and I feel accepted and liked, and we are not in competition with one another.

  220.  #220Tereana on April 21, 2013 at 10:50 pm

    p.s. I meant to say that I “love” that I can receive that.

    Epilogue: He was the last one to send a text today. And I was going to respond something like “it feels good to be one the same page.” or something. But it just felt too contrived. Like if I did that, I would be trying to make everything nice. And I just didn’t feel the need to do that. Plus, I didn’t really want to have the “last word.” What do I need to say? Is it necessary for me to respond? No. I spilled my guts and told him what was up, and we are on the same page. There is no need for me to go and verbalize that, when I feel good just like I am. I feel balanced. But precariously. So that I sense that one small move on my part might result in NOT being or feeling in balance. Instead, I think I will focus on this balanced, pleasant feeling, and not try to reach forward or make anything more of it. I think I got out what it was I wanted to say all along….

  221.  #221Tereana on April 21, 2013 at 10:54 pm

    Hm…Indigo – nice.

    I’m glad you liked the post! Interesting, though, that I didn’t say “loss of control.” that sounds so negative to me. Even though that’s kind of how it feels at first. But that’s only because it’s unfamiliar. That fear feeling is just covering up the real feeling, which is surrender…

  222.  #222Tereana on April 21, 2013 at 11:15 pm

    Hi Libelula –

    Thank you for the link. I will plan to check it out. But I also hope you know, based on the whole of my message, not just that one part, that I was in NO way dismissing or diminishing Warrior Girl’s experience. Anything but. In fact, that is WHY I was talking about the miscarriage. For her, it was huge, and this is obvious to me. We also don’t have a lot of details about what happened. We don’t need to know. But SHE DOES. Whether she wants to know or not, she is carrying that experience with her, and my sense is that she WANTS to face it, but she is really scared. And maybe what would help her is to get in touch with her fear feelings, and her feelings of helplessness, and whatever else is there. That will take time to come to acceptance.

    And that is what I meant by “these things just happen.” I meant it on a Universal, Cosmic scale. On the scale of the unknowable, the mystical, the ineffable. It feels so wrong in our bodies. And what we feel is incredibly real and powerful. But running away from those feelings never helps. And it for sure doesn’t change reality.

    My guess is that she is in a state of grief. She has been running from the feelings. But grieving for her loss is okay. Not only that, it is extremely healthy. But our culture tends to encourage us not to grieve. Social cues – and sometimes actual people – tell us to “just get over it.” But grief doesn’t work this way.

    I know a lot about this. More than I want to know.

    I am guessing – although I don’t know if this is true – that perhaps she had a late-term miscarriage. These can be very devastating, although I cannot sit here and say that one miscarriage is “more” devastating than another. Each woman’s experience is unique. I have had women come to me a few months after a miscarriage, and be totally fine with it (after they have had a chance to grieve). Those are usually early term. In later months, you have that much more time, emotion, energy, and literally your body invested in the baby. You need more time.

    And like I said, I cannot know exactly what it feels like for her, but in an empathic way, I do. her emotions, her feelings, her experience are VERY important, and that was exactly my point. If that was not clear earlier, then I hope it is now…

    Thanks, Libelula

    And, one more thing – I do not feel my role here is to “comfort” her. What I am here to do is to speak what I see as the truth. Because to me, that’s a lot more helpful than just “comforting” on the surface – she’s trying to do that herself, and it’s not working.

  223.  #223Vi on April 21, 2013 at 11:18 pm

    I feel struck by yesterday love arrow from my ex. I feel off balance.
    I remember what a great guy he was and is, and I remember how suffocated I felt too – I mean when I was at work he checked on me every 30 minutes… I needed some air… and I felt curious what else is out there too..
    I feel guilty for wanting some air.. I feel guilty for feeling curious.. I love my guilt. I love my curiosity. I feel bad I’ve hurt him.. I feel responsible for both of us.. I feel my teeth clenched. I feel tension. I love my tension. I love my sadness.
    I feel angry for he jumped into marriage with the first comer for the sake of hurting me and making me feel jealous. I feel angry at myself I couldn’t communicate my needs otherwise than ask for some time apart… I love my anger.
    and I felt so good in his presence, so secure… But my new security feels waaay better actually – because it comes from me, not from a man.. I don’t need HIM to feel secure! YAY!!! that feels like an a-ha moment… hmmm… I remember Rori has the Anchor tool.. I have to look it up, to find it.. I feel more relaxed in shoulders and it feels so much easier to breathe..
    Whaaat? Vi do you see what I see? You just wrote he did something he knew might hurt you emotionally (thanks Goodness it didn’t!) after you asked for space and air.. Do you still believe he really had your best interest at heart?… ewww.. what an eye-opener.. red flag! *chuckling* Phew I feel kinda very very good… 🙂 Thank you.

  224.  #224Vi on April 21, 2013 at 11:28 pm

    I feel so grateful to my ex for showing up and bringing me this message 🙂 yay!

  225.  #225Butterfly Wings on April 22, 2013 at 12:52 am

    175: prplpsn28 – I agree with you in some respect.

    When I was seeing TH, we were “exclusive”, so there’s no way I could date another man (platonic or not), because it definitely felt like cheating to me.

    But since we broke up and I’ve really started to CD, I’ve found that it’s really not the same thing. I am dating several man (I think there are more than 10), and most know I’m dating others. In fact, while they’re not overly thrilled with having to share me, they’re accepting of it because they’re not yet offering me what I want.

    I’m not in a relationship of any type with any of these men, so CDing is working beautifully. One of them (Mr NYE for those of you who remember) recently weeded himself out, and it hardly even registered on my radar. What an empowering place to be!

    Now, if any one of these men ask to be exclusive, I will consider it (depending on my feelings for him), as I’m not looking for marriage as such. But I will continue to CD myself and my girlfriends.


  226.  #226Butterfly Wings on April 22, 2013 at 1:13 am

    195: Julie – my heart went out to you as I read your post, because my ex husband did a similar thing.

    I KNEW he loved me, but he had this online thing going on with another woman for months. When I found out I was absolutely devastated.

    We tried to work on the marriage (not hard enough), and I ended up leaving him because his online conversations continued and I just couldn’t trust him again.

    He did the same to his now fiance, although this time I think he’s learned his lesson.

    What he was doing was nothing to do with either myself or his gf, but everything to do with some need he was trying to fulfill I believe. He did love me, and I’m sure he loves his fiance too, but for some stupid reason, he felt the need to have these online conversations with other women. Yuk.

    This is something that definitely needs to be talked about, although now probably isn’t a great time, huh?


  227.  #227Zia on April 22, 2013 at 2:25 am

    214: Tereana I completely know what you meant in that post about power v control. Because I felt exactly the same way. And It feels a lot more powerful to “let go” to me now, because trying to control just feels so tiring and frustrating and tense.

  228.  #228Linda on April 22, 2013 at 5:47 am

    Purple… I have been where you are. One moment feeling done the next ..finding myself pouring more energy into what I was done with. HA

    I know it is not light or laughing matter in the least. I have been reading your posts and other sirens responses with interest.

    I have journeyed “through” what you are living “in” right now. I refer to it as my “hurts so good” time now because..when I got tired of the hurt and not having what I wanted in my life… things turned for the good.

    What Feminwoman wrote you in #108 and 109. IS RIGHT ON!

    For me I simply just had to BE DONE! with investing energy into what did not FEEL good to me. Making sure that I honor my committment to not be involved with anything or one that does not feel good. THe other pre-step to that was to become interested in my feelings and stop dismissing or stuffing them. (Which I dont see as your issue, but was definatly one of mine).

    I began focusing on what “my” relationship would feel like to be in… AND the more I did NOT get that from who I was with… the less interested and bored I became. Not only did I lean back.. I did not care. Holding on the wrong person (who was partially right sometimes)… just kept the right man from entering into my life. What a shift!! What a gift I gave myself!!

    When I began CDing…(late last summer) I kept my focus on what I wanted, how I would feel receiving it and dated some really great high quality men. One after another just showed up. Each had a message for me. H has one for you too. As cliche as it sounds, I had to start loving and taking great care of myself before anyone else could.

    Hugs to you

  229.  #229seahorse on April 22, 2013 at 6:09 am

    I feel grateful for many things this morning. I am grateful for being here and participating here. It feels giggly that I have read Rori,listened to Rori, read bunches and bunches and then one morning I read a sirens words here and something that was elusive before just clicked. Fit like a piece of a puzzle. Bingo! Thank you Linda:)

  230.  #230Femininewoman on April 22, 2013 at 6:10 am

    BW for me exclusivity is an agreement between two people. If it is not working for either one I believe it can be revisited and renegotiatedd. It does not have to be a breakup. I reserve the right to tell any man that this is not working for me and I will reopen my options which includes him, if that is what he wants too.

  231.  #231Linda on April 22, 2013 at 6:18 am

    Awh… Seahorse 🙂 whatever it was that is AWESOME!

    I love it when a dark spot gets shattered with understanding !!!

  232.  #232Emerson on April 22, 2013 at 6:25 am

    Reading all your wonderful experiences and communication is inspiring sirens. I am realizing that I shut down. ExoticCD may or may not have followed thru but as soon as I started feeling let down, I shut the whole thing down and I was maybe being impatient… I don’t know.
    I don’t know when I can trust myself.
    It’s weird.
    I wish it was not so much second guessing and trying not to say the wrong thing… I want to feel natural and easy…

  233.  #233Emerson on April 22, 2013 at 6:26 am

    I feel annoyed like will I ever “get over” my bad experiences with men in the past? Maybe I need a new environment I don’t know…

  234.  #234Linda G on April 22, 2013 at 6:35 am

    What I have learned from Rori’s programs on Targeting Mr Right, a big part of changing your vibe is changing your outside, too; your hair, makeup, some different clothes, revise your routine. Mixing up your status quo will invite fresh perspective.

    Last night I went on a first date from match. I practised “listening at level 2” for 2 1/2 hours! Exhausting…

  235.  #235Linda G on April 22, 2013 at 6:37 am

    I have a question/dilemma:
    I find it almost impossible to lean back and remain soft when doing an activity with men, like a meet-up sports thing.

    Also, I find I get triggered if there is a rock star type girl around, like I am just not good enough to outshine her. Makes me feel I can”t compete, yet should I?

  236.  #236seahorse on April 22, 2013 at 6:43 am

    Okay………I am in the middle of a trigger right now and a big challenge. I am going to the dermatologist ina little bit for a biopsy on my nose. The appointment is with a man doctor. I haven’t been to a man doctor ina looonnnggg time. I don’t like to have my face hurt. Old wounds inside my soul. Breathing deep and slow now. I feel scared. I feel silly and immature. And i don’t care. Wait, I love my fear around that. I have my anger and my NO! giggling thinking about the poor guy trying to get a biopsy off my nose and wiggling around. That feels better. I feel like I am going into battle. I don’t like that! No, battle. Health and love for me. It’s okay I will feel my feelings and love them.

    Any words of advice would be most appreciated. Tahnk you

  237.  #237seahorse on April 22, 2013 at 6:44 am

    Omg…. I’m going to cd my dermatologist!!! heheheheheheh…….. nervous giggles

  238.  #238Linda G on April 22, 2013 at 6:47 am

    Seahorse, I was going to say, look at it as you are taking care of yourself. but cding your dermatologist sounds much better!

  239.  #239seahorse on April 22, 2013 at 6:48 am

    Feeling messages for the doc………………. I feel worried about you touching my face. Please be patient. If i not I’m probably going to either run screaming from your office or I pop you on the nose……. No? hahahahahahahahhaha!!!!! laughing out loud at that one!!! Omg could you imagine??

    so nervous, but laughing helps

  240.  #240seahorse on April 22, 2013 at 6:49 am

    Thanks LindaG:)

  241.  #241seahorse on April 22, 2013 at 6:53 am

    whoa. I really feel this trigger and it’s vulnerability. Learning curve is really sharp on this. Breathing. I willingly have to do this. I feel like crying.

  242.  #242seahorse on April 22, 2013 at 6:57 am

    Is it giving into the fear? oh no. I feel like a child. The dentist used to smack our face when we cried. Let it come. Bad dentist. You are fine little one. I won’t let anything happen. I love you and you are safe.

  243.  #243seahorse on April 22, 2013 at 7:00 am

    Brave!!! Courageous!!!! What’s on the other side???? Who knows? Find out be adventerous and Reality is where it’s at!!!!!! Reality

    Time to get ready

  244.  #244Linda G on April 22, 2013 at 7:03 am

    maybe even telling the doctor you feel nervous and frightened will adjust his approach to you…

  245.  #245Tam on April 22, 2013 at 7:28 am


  246.  #246Mercedes on April 22, 2013 at 8:27 am

    Zara: It was fun seeing those old conversations on here! Terrance and I have become good friends and you reminded me, I was supposed to set up a time for us to talk soon but I’ve been so busy with the business I totally forgot! I will be sure to call him and check up this week! (Terrance…you still reading here? I’ll talk to you soon).

    Dan and I also continued communicating after his stint on the blog although for us, it’s more about blogger and twitter for keeping in touch vs Terrance and I who email and talk on the phone.

    I miss having a guy’s input here sometimes. It’s kind of cool to hear from them. 🙂

    Much Love,

  247.  #247Lisa on April 22, 2013 at 9:17 am

    Question for all the Sirens that have been doing this awhile… at what point in a relationship is it ok to call him, ask him over, or set up a date for him… Since we have been together almost 3.5 months. I usually wait on him to call and he asks me out every week… just curious if maybe he is waiting on me to plan something romantic for him… since he has been doing all the planning… and of course it would be once in awhile… or would that be masculine.. or too soon… bytheway.. buying myself roses… is part of circle dating right… 😉

  248.  #248Mercedes on April 22, 2013 at 9:24 am

    Lisa: Has he in some way indicated to you he wants you to make romantic plans for him? In my experience, J likes doing the date planning and isn’t ever expecting that from me. I’ve done it once in a while, but only because it feels right to me at the time (as sort of a surprise to him). I don’t think I started doing that until maybe 2 or 3 years into our dating??? Not sure on the exact timing but I do know one thing…I love having J take the lead on dates and it is very, very rare that I am inspired to initiate that stuff. I really much prefer to receive.

    And in my mind, buying yourself roses could very well be a way of circular dating yourself. I buy myself flowers once in a while too. 🙂

    Much Love,

  249.  #249Mercedes on April 22, 2013 at 9:24 am

    Btw…there is a new thread up…

  250.  #250smile on April 22, 2013 at 10:06 am

    Hi tam!! 🙂

  251.  #251Rori Raye on April 22, 2013 at 10:31 am

    Kristine – Thank you! Yayy to baby steps! Love, Rori

  252.  #252Tam on April 22, 2013 at 10:53 am

    Hi Smile 🙂

  253.  #253Nme008 on April 22, 2013 at 12:16 pm

    So online dating one of the difficult things? I look very young and I keep attracting all these 20somethong guys! I’m actially going out with a 23 year old tonight (crazy) and a 28 year old Wednesday.

  254.  #254Lisa on April 22, 2013 at 12:56 pm

    @Mercedes 248 He has somewhat.. now that you mention it.. but not outright… he has ask me when I’ll cook for him… I said we aren’t there yet. I’m careful not to set up house keeping too soon.. not going to start cooking for him yet. I’ve made him breakfast, and fed him one night when he was over… Actually now that you mention it, I think it is laziness?.. he wants me to help him keep up with our dates…. He is wanting me to decide what to do… so I guess I have my answer. Do what Rori says and say, I love hiking, I love biking, I love picnics and then stand there in silence.. let him decide. I love it when he takes the lead too… and I don’t have to do anything… but receive.. but I notice he is wanting to do less as far as dating plans. (since the “I love you” came into the picture..he stopped chasing me and wants to settle in and get comfy) Which feels like the feminine coming out in him… he is making shifts though as I lean back and don’t take the lead…he is having to come forth and do it, or I make other plans with friends and tell him… “I didn’t know you wanted to see me”… He also wants me to answer his e-mails faster, which I found odd… I don’t answer all of them, just some.. So I can give him space…and not chase. ?? Confused…

  255.  #255Lisa on April 22, 2013 at 1:01 pm

    @Nme2008 that is cool how old are you? I was 49 and went out with 32 year olds… they didn’t mind.. the sex was great… and actually they and I had lots of interesting conversations and it wasn’t just physical.. Go girl! I just turned 50 and still have younger men act interested…(makes for great CD’ing) I look young for my age also, but I think it is more about my inner glow…like Rori says that attracts them. They tell me that there is just something different about me… I’m not petty and immature and they like that… I found it refreshing. A big confidence booster!

  256.  #256Nme008 on April 22, 2013 at 3:26 pm

    @ Lisa
    I’m 31. I definitely agree with some of what you said. I very casually went out with and hooked up with a few younger guys when I was first separated from my ex husband. But these guys are trying to seriously date me…Iist feel bad like can they afford to pay for dinner and stuff? I know it’s silly but I really have these thoughts.

  257.  #257Nme008 on April 22, 2013 at 3:26 pm

    @ Lisa
    I’m 31. I definitely agree with some of what you said. I very casually went out with and hooked up with a few younger guys when I was first separated from my ex husband. But these guys are trying to seriously date me…I feel bad like can they afford to pay for dinner and stuff? I know it’s silly but I really have these thoughts.

  258.  #258seahorse on April 22, 2013 at 6:00 pm

    Sweet day!! Thankful for feeling messages to myself. Thankful for the kind and gentle doc. Thankful that I am here. It was a wonderful day.

  259.  #259TMI on April 22, 2013 at 7:06 pm

    Thank you Kristine. I had finally figured that out. I tend to be pretty literal so I need to work on my inner responses to some terms used.

    I finally decided I would CD with myself, female friends and a few male friends. The first male CD today surprised me. I gave all my feeling messages and received amazing feelings in return.

    Had a distant night with J last night. (I leaned back and so did he, feel discouraged) I woke up this morning and decided to make myself feel better and wore bright red lipstick. It felt amazing. I even posted a fun flirty picture of it on Facebook. I received so many compliments out in the world and on FB. My male friendCD even went as far as to tell me that he stared at it for 45 mins before getting the courage to text me and tell me how sexy I am.

    I feel amazing and light!

    Sadly Hubby J said nothing. His loss!! 🙂

  260.  #260ruth on April 23, 2013 at 8:25 am

    Such helpful reading
    thank you

  261.  #261Mercedes on April 23, 2013 at 9:11 am

    Ruth!!! 🙂 I hope you are well!!! I’ve been thinking of you!

    Much Love,

  262.  #262k2012 on April 23, 2013 at 3:24 pm

    “My view is NEVER get involved in an online relationship. Its NOT real. You have to take it to the next level and be able to TALK in person. To really get to know someone. Words on a computer screen, or even over a video connection, are NOT REAL. You will never know a person’s true character that way and you will not get what you truly expect, which is a REAL relationship. Not getting your expectations met = pain.

    Once you stop avoiding what it is you really want, and take ACTION to put yourself out there to connect with LIVE people, you will open yourself up to a REAL relationship and it will happen.”. I agree with some aspects of this. While I would never say never get involved in an online relationship, u definitely have to take it to the next level. It cannot be online only. It must move to the next level for it to be real. That’s the reason why I didn’t bother with overseas cd cause he didn’t want to talk on the phone.

  263.  #263Tereana on April 24, 2013 at 9:39 am

    Arachne – I really liked your post in #67. That was very honest and revealing, and I liked the distinction you made between “cybersex” and “cyber relationship.”

    Syreena – I appreciated that quote from the Psychology article on cybersex and relationships.

    It is like dreaming, I suppose, or anything else you can imagine – the brain doesn’t know the difference between what is “real” in terms of what is sensed from the outside world, and what is generated from within. Our inner images are 100% real to the brain, which is why guided imagery meditations and such are so effective for healing. In the same way, I believe it’s true – the connection that you feel with someone far away can be real, even if you have never touched the person or seen them face-to-face.

    This is all a little pertinent at the moment, because CCB (Cute Chicago Boy) has resurfaced for the moment. And last night, we had our first online chat in a while. He always wants to see me without my clothes off (ha!), and I have become more and more adept and finding ways to tell him “no.” Because I know if I even start to take off one thing, it’s going to go straight to full-on cybersex. He is very sexy in multiple ways, and I believe he is a complex human being. I don’t know yet if he is a “good” man or not. That’s one thing I can’t tell from meeting him over the Internet. I know that he has artistic (self-trained) talent, which I find extremely sexy. And he compliments me in large and unexpected ways. Last night, he told me how wonderful I am, and that I am “the best.” Shortly after that, he said he wanted me to remove my dress. Lol. It makes me want to be a little suspicious. But then again, I guess I can appreciate the fact that the man finds me sexy and attractive from so far away. I am the best => ergo, he wants to have sex with me (or at least pretend to). I guess that makes sense.

    In another way, it makes me wonder – and this isn’t necessarily a bad thing – but is part of the essence of the sexiness the very FACT that I am far away? Is it at least partly the idea that I am distant and unreachable, or at least only reachable by going a great distance? Is this barrier and this challenge part of the allure? Do I want to change that?

    Is that part of the attraction for me??

    I have declared to him – and I intend to keep this promise – that he will not see me naked, or even partially nude, until he comes here to see me in person. I feel almost manipulative in making that statement. Like I am trying to get him to “do” something. But he really doesn’t have to come see me at all. And maybe I am actually trying to “control” myself more than him.

    I have to admit, I am a little bit scared to meet him in person. His sexual desire is so strong, that I am a little afraid that he will want to meet me and simply have sex with me right away, without giving me a chance to get used to being in the same room with him – rather than a mutual picture on a computer screen.

    But he is also like a mirror to me. He likes the way that I look. He finds me very sexy. This is all that I’ve ever really wanted – to have men find me sexy and attractive. As an awkward, not-sexy-at-all feeling teenager, it was hard to believe that ANYONE would find me attractive. Add to that the fact that the one person I had a major attraction for in High School kissed me once, but other than that, always saw me as a friend. I feel like I am playing out the same scenario in all of my relationships – when attraction is there, it becomes a “Friends with Benefits” situation. But I won’t let someone actually like me and love me thoroughly for who I am.

    It’s occurred to me sometimes that this was maybe the main (or the only?) reason that I left my fiancé – he loved me, and that threatened my long-held belief that no one could ever love me. Even though I wanted to believe that it could happen.

    The idea that I could be attractive and meaningful and worthwhile to someone is still a foreign idea to me. Even though I “know” on a an intellectual level that it happens to me all the time, on a regular basis. I almost always consider all of these occurrences to be anomalies. Deviations from the norm. But increasingly, they are becoming the norm, and yet I always find them strange, because I must admit that a big part of me still does not feel attractive or sexy at all. I both know and don’t know what these men are attracted to in me. And I just wish that I had the confidence and the self-assurance to just know, and stop with the not-knowing already, because I believe that might actually be sexier.

    And I agree with Arachne that sometimes having someone to relate to who is not actually in the room with you can be kind of “safer.” Maybe not safer emotionally, but at least you don’t have to worry about std’s or pregnancy, or any of the other things that would come up if physical sex were in the picture.

    Okay, thanks for listening and putting up with my rambling long post….

    P.S. CCB said that I “inspire him” last night. That made me feel nice : )

  264.  #264Sarah on April 24, 2013 at 12:25 pm

    Wow, in some ways this speaks to me. I am in an 18 month “relationship” with a man I love. We connect emotionally, intellectually, spiritually, physically. So what’s the problem? He still isn’t divorced, but has been separated for over two years. The divorce is in the process. He still gets angry and upset with his ex wife. Complicating that is another girlfriend who he also has feelings for, and an ongoing sexual relationship with his ex sister in law. When I started circular dating I became focused on myself and enjoying attention and company from other men. Though it still hurt to think of losing “my man”, the whole process of circular dating made me feel so strong and gave me hope for my future. The problem is, my man instinctively knew I had switched my focus and started to pursue me more strongly than ever. He told me he loves me and doesn’t want to lose me. He acknowledges that he needs to make a decision. And says he wants a real relationship and a good future with the right woman. I want to do the right thing. I would feel so amazing if he would commit to me and we had this amazing future to look forward to. Otherwise I need to move past this. Do I make a clean break and leave the ball in his court… To come after me once he resolves other things… If I’m what he wants? Or do I circular date him in the meantime? Since he is having sex with others I know I shouldn’t be having sex with him. But it is soooo very good and so hard not to do. 🙂

  265.  #265Indigo on April 24, 2013 at 1:51 pm

    Sometimes it feels extremely hard to see your blind spot with a particular man :/

  266.  #266Rori Raye on April 24, 2013 at 3:28 pm

    SArah – all the things you say – forget about “shoulds.” Every woman get’s to decide and discover what works for HER! Clearly – the Circular Dating is working for you on a deep level – so keep doing that! And you can date him, or break off contact – it all depends on what YOU can handle. I have many friends who are polyamorous – in other words, sleeping with several people – and it works for them. Do not decide that’s not for you – when you’re doing it – sort of. The only thing you’re not doing is sleeping with anyone else…so use this time to discover who YOU are and what feels good to YOU. You can’t make mistakes except turning so much towards him that you push him away – unless you WANT to push him away – then do it! Love, Rori

  267.  #267Sarah on April 24, 2013 at 4:07 pm

    Wow, in some ways this speaks to me. I am in an 18 month “relationship” with a man I love. We connect emotionally, intellectually, spiritually, physically. He still isn’t divorced, but has been separated for over two years. The divorce is in the process. He still gets angry and upset with his ex wife. Complicating that is another girlfriend who he also has feelings for, and an ongoing sexual relationship with his ex sister in law. When I started circular dating I became focused on myself and enjoying attention and company from other men. Though it still hurt to think of losing “my man”, the whole process of circular dating made me feel so strong and gave me hope for my future. The problem is, my man instinctively knew I had switched my focus and started to pursue me more strongly than ever. He told me he loves me and doesn’t want to lose me. He acknowledges that he needs to make a decision. And says he wants a real relationship and a good future with the right woman. I want to do the right thing. I would feel so amazing if he would commit to me and we had this amazing future to look forward to. Otherwise I need to move past this. Do I make a clean break and leave the ball in his court… To come after me once he resolves other things… If I’m what he wants? Or do I circular date him in the meantime? Since he is having sex with others I know I shouldn’t be having sex with him. But it is soooo very good and so hard not to do. 🙂

  268.  #268Sarah on April 24, 2013 at 4:09 pm

    Wow, in some ways this speaks to me. I am in an 18 month “relationship” with a man I love. We connect emotionally, intellectually, spiritually, physically. He still isn’t divorced, but has been separated for over two years. The divorce is in the process. He still gets angry and upset with his ex wife. Complicating that is another girlfriend who he also has feelings for, and an ongoing sexual relationship with his ex sister in law. When I started circular dating I became focused on myself and enjoying attention and company from other men. Though it still hurt to think of losing “my man”, the whole process of circular dating made me feel so strong.The problem is, my man instinctively knew I had switched my focus and started to pursue me more strongly than ever. He told me he loves me and doesn’t want to lose me. He acknowledges that he needs to make a decision. And says he wants a real relationship and a good future with the right woman. I want to do the right thing. I would feel so amazing if he would commit to me and we had this amazing future to look forward to. Otherwise I need to move past this. Do I make a clean break and leave the ball in his court… To come after me once he resolves other things… If I’m what he wants? Or do I circular date him in the meantime? Since he is having sex with others I know I shouldn’t be having sex with him. But it is soooo very good and so hard not to do.

  269.  #269BoiseBabe on April 25, 2013 at 3:50 am

    I am so humbled that I read this thread. I bought and read (and re-read over and over) “Have the relationship you want”. It’s still very hard for me to articulate my true feelings. I have been isolated since I took a night shift position and returned to school in the evenings before my shift. I hadn’t wanted a real relationship for a long time, and was happy with the occasional booty call and dinner out. Worked for me. When that stopped being enough, I went celibate, prepping for a real connection. And bought “Have the relationship you want”. After 18 months, I went online, and met a really nice man. I mean, we connected at a level that was only in my dreams. (you know where this is going..) My rules on Internet dating are if we aren’t meeting within a couple of months (preferably less, unless there’s some distance), it isn’t a real connection that’s meant to be. I got into this virtual relationship, which included cyber sex. For almost 3 months. But I still felt lacking. I want the real deal. Finally he made sounds of actually coming to meet me. However, there was no real date set. 2 1/2 hours is a long way, but it’s not THAT far, especially as he kept saying that I “might be his dream girl.” When I tried to pin him down on a date he said he was an enigma; you never knew when he would do something. I believe he wanted to surprise me, but I had expressed before that I am more comfortable with a plan. My schedule is not normal. Enter the misunderstanding.I thought an enigma was something fleeting; not lasting. And him saying “you never know what I’m going to do or say” really deflated my hopes. And ticked me off. Regardless, I let him know that I wasn’t cool with that but that I would like to keep in touch. Now this is all via text! Where the heck did my head go? During the text exchange, I got a call that my dear friend of 30 years had finally succumbed to cancer, and I didn’t reply back to him on a text. 3 a.m. I get a text that said he had thought about what I had said and to EFF all you Internet **tches! I was so offended that I told him that I would take that as an adios. What I wanted to do was to call him and say I don’t allow people to speak to me that way, but I understand he’s upset because I didn’t reply back and tell him about my friend. I didn’t though. I was tired, insulted and grieving. there was a few “bye bye and good luck” messages back and forth, then the final one that broke my heart saying that “after all I had said to him, EFF YOU”. I stopped replying. Because I felt so worn out of having to smooth things over, tiptoe on broken glass and all the other things that I normally do. Before you say why was I broken hearted, it’s because I REALLY believed there was a karmic type of connection. After a few days I sent a text to say I was sorry for what I had said to hurt him. No reply. A week later, I sent an e-mail to explain why I misunderstood him. No reply. I cannot tell you how devastated I was. Bottom line is: no reply, means no reply because I don’t want to communicate, or know you. I kept obsessing and obsessing and knew there was something underlying this.I was checking on him on the dating site, checking on FB, waiting and waiting for that call or text! This is not the real me. So I got into a counselor and told her how baffled I was about this….connection I felt. It all boils down to my own self worth and insecurity. Did I really want crumbs instead of the cake? No, I want the cake. I finally (2 months later) deleted him from my FB friends and from my phone. I also deleted my profile from the dating site because I want the real deal and don’t want to waste time online. I feel so much lighter and am looking for the gift in all this. I read the parts in the Relationship book about being feminine, and communicating my REAL feelings. So the gift here is that I will communicate my real feelings and I also forgive myself for MY PART in this ending.
    So virtual relationships are relationships in our heads. And when we are too vulnerable, they enter our hearts. Which reminds me of my original rule, meet as soon as is feasible! If someone is stringing you along in any way, shape or form, and you are NOT completely okay with it, it really is time to cut your losses and get back in the business of reality. When you are DISCONNECTED from yourself, then you see a connection, anywhere. And latch on tight. I feel badly for Warrior Girl. I love that she gave herself that name because that tells me she will fight for what is right. However, I didn’t read anything about feeling right, or wrong. This is a serious disconnect, hiding her grief. Please Warrior Girl, find it in your heart to forgive yourself and work through the grief. If you can’t afford counseling, then find a grief support group. You have suffered a tremendous loss and you probably don’t want ANY more losses, like losing this guy who (pardon me for saying) sounds like a loser. I get offended when my fellow sisters in the sisterhood get treated badly. Loss is part of life and sometimes what you perceive as a loss, is not really a loss. But a step back into living. It’s a change. Dumping the ignorant, self serving, selfish guy who isn’t even attractive to you is not a loss. It’s a step away from that which seeks to destroy you. Weak men make strong women feel weak. They get us when we are at our most vulnerable. Recognize that. Would you allow your best friend to go through this? Of course not! You would hug her tight and say “WHAT THE HECK ARE YOU THINKING GIRL.” So grab hold of yourself and give yourself that hug. It’s time to rebuild. You can do this.
    I love the gals on here. Namaste.

  270.  #270Dominique on April 25, 2013 at 9:13 am

    Awesome BoiseBabe – YAY you!!!


  271.  #271Kisha on April 25, 2013 at 10:01 am

    I’ve been receiving your newsletters, Rori, for many years now; ever since 2009 when I first starting having problems in my now dissolved marriage. I really was not in a good place, spiritually, begin applying your tools. I felt trapped in my marriage adn I did not want to try and repair it; I just wanted out. I cheated on him with a man who was also in the midst of a divorce with his wife who had left him. We were both emotionally unavailable, but strongly physically attracted to one another. That has always been a problem for me-mistakingly sexual attraction and sex for love. Needless to say, that affair ended after four years of coming and going back and forth with one another. It was very damaging to my self esteem. Long story short, I tried using some of your tools in that relationship, but by that time, it was too late. The situation was too damaged. I am in the process of using your tools (Modern Siren, feeling messages, riffing, etc.) to work on myself so that I will be open to love and marriage again. But, old habits and demons of my past and past relationships keep haunting me. I feel insecure anytime an attractive man even looks at me. I only feel comfortable with men who are familiar to me…old high school friends and boyfriends. I just recently ran into one of those old boyfriends. I instantly felt an attraction to him. I don’t know if it was just lonlieness or the that he instantly said to me, “I’ll marry you!” or a combination of both. Either way, we’ve only been texting and talking on the phone the last couple of days and I’m already feeling insecure when I don’t hear from him and I feel bad that he hasn’t asked me out yet. Another thing is that when we were together, he had anger issues and was often physically abusive toward me. I broke up with him because of that. I guess what I want to know is if there is something within me that I need to work to think this relationship would work this time and am I operating through some ugly bad habit giving this man a chance again. I really want to get married again someday, but I want it to be the right way with the right man for me and I know the only way I can do that is if I am healed. I’d appreciate any advice I can get here. Also, I will be joining in some of the posts doing the riffing exercise. I feel this could really help me right now. I don’t want anyone to think I’m strange for jumping in riffing through my feelings.
    Thank you,

  272.  #272Kisha on April 25, 2013 at 10:11 am

    I really want to try the riffing exercise. So here it goes:

    I feel strange right now. but I really do love my feelings of strangeness. I love feeling different. I feel judged most of the time. Why do I feel judged? I feel people are judgemental. Is this because I am judgemental. I don’t want to be judmental, but I accept my feelings of judgment. I don’t feel ready to love them yet. I feel sad right now. I don’t like my feelings of sadness, but I accept feeling sad. Why am I sad. I feel lonely. I feel insecure. I know I should love these feelings but I don’t. I want to feel confident, happy, and secure. I want to feel that way without expecting a man to do that for me. I feel angry right now. I feel angry at the father I never met. I feel angry that he never wanted to meet me. I feel angry at all men. I feel like all men are liars. I know that is not entirely true, but I just feel angry right now. I feel a little relieved that I admitted that I feel that all men lie. I feel stupid. I feel stupid for believing lies. I feel stupid for believing in anyone but myself. I feel defensive. I feel the need to protect myself all the time. I feel no one will protect me but me. I feel icky. I feel tension in my forehead right now. I feel good being able to recognize these feelings. I feel relaxed now because I was able to pinpoint the tension and ease it away. I feel in control. I love feeling in control. I hate feeling out of control. I want to be able to control everything. I love my feelings of being a control-freak. I feel like I’m having a breakthrough. I feel relieved that I can get this out and not project these feelings onto someone innocent. I feel more tension in my head. I feel this means that all these feelings are being exposed and are ready to come out. I feel this is a good thing.

  273.  #273Rori Raye on April 26, 2013 at 9:14 am

    Kisha, Welcome – and what you lack is experience. Circular Dating builds “muscle,” gets you clear on what is and isn’t okay with a man (for YOU), and builds your self-confidence. You can DO this! This man who was abusive is NOT the solution. The solution is for you to get comfortable with dating strangers. Love, Rori

  274.  #274Sharon on April 28, 2013 at 7:19 pm

    I have been reading Rori’s relationship material for quite awhile now. After I divorced, I realized that dating was hard for me because I didn’t know much about how to have good relationships with men. So I have been reading, learning, and trying things out as I interact with the men I know and meet in different settings. I feel I am growing so strong as a woman who loves being one and also, being who I am. I noticed that men are attracted to that. All kinds of men. I am discovering that I am attractive, not just good looking, but a person who is attractive. It’s fun! I haven’t dated yet, but things are happening. A man I connected with at a temp job began to seek me out on breaks….but not every break and not every day. I had learned not to pursue him….look for him, wait for him, go sit with him, etc. and not to let my mind dwell on him at all, but to enjoy his company everytime he came around. It was so interesting to watch his interest grow and fun to have him seeking out my company without me having to do anything. All the experience I am having are teaching me things about relating to men and also what I like and don’t like and what kind of person I would enjoy being with. Rori’s material has been very helpful in this process.

  275.  #275Rori Raye on April 30, 2013 at 11:05 am

    Sharon, Welcome, and Brava to YOU! Love, Rori

  276.  #276Julie on May 6, 2013 at 7:27 pm

    ref 196 from April 22nd

    Hi there

    Thank you for your past comments Vi, Lisa and Butterflywings and sorry for the late response. My boyfriends mother passed a couple of weeks ago and it is the funeral in a few days time. I have been supporting my boyfriend and his family helping where I can and managed to keep my feelings rather hidden as it was not the right time to show them. It has been very difficult and felt the need to wait until things have settled down a little….but that little voice in my head has been resisting and those painful feelings have been digging deep inside of me. Unfortunately I did let a little out to my boyfriend but the timing was all wrong. We have had a chat about him meeting up with this other woman and he got really angry with me and said if I dont trust him he dosent want me around. The subject got dropped and he has since booked us flights for a holiday in July. He has said he will still meet up with this woman and I do have to trust him. Ok Ok Ok but I still feel uncomfortable with it. I want to bring the subject up again maybe when I feel he is in a calmer mood after his emotions over his Mums passing have calmed. I want to tell him I feel hurt and jealous and uncomfortable. I also want to start doing more of my own thing again and seeing more of my friends. He has gone quite moody in the past when I have gone out with single female friends or gone social dancing alone at times. Feel I have got to get my power back again. He reduced me to a shaking sobbing wreck a couple of days ago after the argument and I ended up saying sorry for not trusting him. He said he could hardly bear to look at me and I felt like a little girl being told off by a parent. I am quite a strong willed person who runs a business and feel with him have changed somewhat. I do let him take the lead but I do not want to be treated like a doormat. Please can i have some advise on if me bringing up the subject again and saying how i really feel will help? Think he might still go ahead and meet up with this woman anyway and it might just cause another big argument if I bring it up. Ok so its just for a private get together in a bar before their school reunion..but then where will it stop? I feel there is an attraction between them and its just an excuse to get together. They want time to be alone before the others arrive. He said she looks like a Move star and was disspapointed he could not sit next to her at the last meeting….so hence the need at the next reunion to meet before.

    Please help


  277.  #277Julie on May 6, 2013 at 7:32 pm

    sorry for the typos! meant Movie Star and dissapponited..pressed the send to quickly then