When Long Distance Actually Means Nothing At All

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returnsThe Question:
“Rori: I write this with a heavy heart, because it is breaking in pieces like a hammer to a piece of glass. I was in a relationship with a guy in another state… well last night while we were texting, I told him I had all my ducks in a row & it would be just a little longer & I would be there. He texted me back, saying, NOT to come now because he was moving to another state with his brother  & his brothers girl.
I asked why I couldn’t come too & he said it was their house. I text back that I would find a place close to them so we could see each other when ever he wasn’t working. No answer. I then texted him again asking if he was there? No answer.

So now I have a hotel reservation I can’t get my money back, out for two phone cards, and gas for a total of $646. which I had to borrow & now pay back.
All he ever said was how much he loved me & how he couldn’t wait for me to come live there, & start a life with him.
Now a 190, why.??  Was all this just a scam?  Did he really love me after all?  I think that if he really cared as he said he would of talked this over with me, instead of saying I’m going to TN screw you (nice way of putting it, but you know the word I wanted to use)
I guess it was really my fault for falling so deeply before I had all the facts.  Now I am a broken woman & I don’t know if I will ever recover from this. So my advise for anyone who has a long distance relationship is to take it very slow, & get all the facts first.  Don’t just take everything at face value. A hard lesson to learn.
Your friend…
My Answer:
Jean, did you ever see him in person? And spend time with him?
…you dodged a bullet…
I hope you’ll consider yourself more educated now, and not broken at all.
And I wish you luck with the next fellow – now you have more skills and will attract a man who can really do the job.
From Jean
Rori: No, I never saw him in person, but he posted a photo online, don’t know if it was really him or a friend because he said he had hazel eyes, & the photo showed dark eyes.  He said it was the lighting in the room, bull shit, I’m not that stupid.
Never spent time with him except on the phone . If it was meant to be it would of happen, right?
Maybe you are right, I missed the bullet, but still have to go there because the hotel is nonrefundable.
My Answer:
Jean, Thank you for the additional information, and I apologize in advance if I seem harsh –
To me, there is no such thing as “being in a relationship” – and elementally IMPOSSIBLE to “Fall in love” – with anyone you’ve never met.
I know this sounds very tough – and, for me, this situation is no different than any fantasy, any celebrity crush.
Love can only happen when both people are intertwining emotionally, and that cannot happen over the phone.
Please, I encourage you to get some coaching to help you see how a relationship actually works, and to help you from falling into something again where you’re giving WAY too much:
1. Paying completely for your travel and hotel room….that was completely unacceptable in these circumstances of never meeting each other…
2. Not talking visually via Skype…
This kind of “mystery” is on a par with giving money to the fake person who emails you asking for money….

On the other hand, I totally believe this was a well-worth-it experience for you! The price you paid will make the lesson stick, and you’ll never let something like this happen again…that’s great!

Long distance sucks – and when you meet someone long distance for the first time, it should be soon, should be after numerous visual Skype calls, and should be paid for equally – or by him totally.

Love, Rori

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  1.  #1linda on August 14, 2015 at 9:27 pm

    There are so many stories like this. Seems that the Dr Phil show has aired lots of them. THis is mild compared to some of those.

  2.  #2Femininewoman on August 15, 2015 at 2:13 am

    Oh wow

  3.  #3Zara on August 15, 2015 at 2:59 am

    This story reads like a case for the “Catfish” TV program. 🙂

    Jean, you might want to check this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catfish_(film)

  4.  #4Zara on August 15, 2015 at 10:41 am

    First thing first, when on line dating.
    With chrome browser, put the mouse cursor on the pictures found on the man’s profile.
    Rigth click and select “copy image URL” or select “save image as”
    Go on google.com
    Click on “images”
    Click on the icon representing a camera
    Drag in the saved picture or copy-paste the image URL
    This will take you to the internet sites where the same picture has been used.

  5.  #5Zara on August 15, 2015 at 10:51 am

    Copy-pasted from Rori Raye blog: “Ground Rules For Long-Distance…”

    A Long-Distance Relationship feels difficult if you and your man can really DO a real, in-person relationship.

    And Long-Distance feels wonderful (in an underground, subconscious way) if you and your man have fear of intimacy and long-standing patterns of pushing love away.

    In other words, some long-distance couples are happiest when apart, and fall to pieces when they actually move in together, or often never even get to the moving in together stage at all.

    And some long-distance couples are happiest when they finally get together.

    Which one will your Long-Distance Relationship be?

    Will it be an amazing way to bring you and your man – who are perfect for each other -together forever from different parts of the planet? Or just another unsuccessful attempt to bring an unreachable, uncommitable, emotionally (and now physically) unavailable man to you forever?

    Here are some things you must know:

    1. You CANNOT be “exclusive” with any man until you have the true commitment you want (engagement ring, actual wedding, house together, trip around the world – whatever YOU want, that means “forever” to you) – whether you’re in a “Long-Distance” relationship, or one where you see him every day. so don’t shut down your options (You can learn how to do this with “Circular Dating” in my Commitment Blueprint program)

    2. And if you’re going to “commit” to him with an engagement ring, if it’s a Long-Distance Relationship, you’d better have a wedding date set, the city and house you’re going to live in picked out and ready for you.

    Why? Because long-distance can lull you into turning an Imaginary Relationship into a Real one in your head, and you don’t want to do that to yourself.

    Next, we’ll talk about using what you have – the phone, texts, emails and occasional weekends together – to not just keep him attracted to you – but to get closer emotionally, so you’ll know who he really is, and what kind of relationship he’s really capable of.


  6.  #6Zara on August 15, 2015 at 11:07 am

    Copy-pasted from Rori’s blog: “How to Keep From Investing in the First Date if You’re Long-Distance”

    In this age of internet and long-distance dating – this letter from Vickie struck me as powerful:

    “Hello Rori,
    Your dating advice has been AWESOME–so awesome that I’ve met someone who has all of the qualities I look for in a man. And the wonderful thing is that I’ve used your Circular Dating technique to help myself from falling head-over-heals and falling into the “instant relationship” mode, which was my past behavior.
    He is actually doing the pursuing, and I’m just sitting back and letting him! I’m amazed at how relaxed and carefree I’ve been in our “getting-to-know-each other” phase of the relationship. Now, however, I need your advice.

    I’ve been chatting with him online now for about a month. He lives about 1000 miles away, and we will be meeting face-to-face for the first time next month during my vacation. I have a few questions about his pending visit:

    1. Should I offer him accommodations in my home if I feel secure enough to do so?

    2. What activities should I plan for the two of us when he comes for the first visit?

    3. Should I introduce him to my family members and friends yet? (Mom, brothers, best friend and her husband, etc.) I do know that we are on the same page in what we are looking for—a spouse. He’s made this clear to me several times.

    4. And the big one: How long should he stay? This one is tricky for me because he will be flying in. It’s not like he can just jump in his car and leave if the two of us don’t hit it off at all! He’s even asked my advice about this. I avoided answering because I simply didn’t know how to answer him.

    Any advice you can give me would be greatly appreciated. This will be my first date in several years! He seems to be a really good guy–a keeper–so far; and I don’t want to blow this before we ever get a chance to really get to know each other.

    Thanks so much, Vickie”

    Here’s my answer:

    Vickie – First – I’m so thrilled for you that this has happened, and that you’re seeing such a dramatic change from using my Tools…Now – this is going to be more challenging when you see him in person – IF you’re attracted to him.

    So… STOP!!! You are running ahead on all burners, and you haven’t even MET this guy!!

    Look at it this way: Nothing – absolutely nothing happens until you meet.

    The chemistry has to be there for him (notice I say “him,” because chemistry can GROW for YOU – that’s how it’s supposed to work). And there’s no way to know what will happen in the first 5 minutes of your meeting.

    So please stick with what you’re doing – Circular Dating (except when he’s here – he deserves your full attention if that’s what he wants – unless he’s also traveling on business or to see friends, as well as meeting you…) – and don’t become invested in this.

    Here’s some ways you can help yourself:

    >>This is DATE # 1 – do not make more out of it than that, even though he flew to you.

    >>PLAN NOTHING!!!! Eat when you feel like it, walk, talk – let HIM make the decisions about all this.

    >>Do NOT entertain him, or FEEL like you need to entertain him. And if you catch or that you’re automatically starting to feel like you need to or want to or ARE entertaining him – stop yourself.

    >>What you want to do is just BE with him.

    >>If money isn’t an issue for him, he should stay in a hotel so he can run this experience the way HE wants to. Let him book the hotel, unless he asks you to do it for him. Don’t offer. Say you don’t know how to work this…but that you’re feeling staying separately – with him in a motel or hotel would feel best to start. If, after a couple of days he wants to stay in your home and it feels good to you (I assume you live alone) – that’s fine.

    >>You know the fun places near where you live – so if he asks what you’d like to do – give him the information, and share what would feel best and most fun for you – not what you THINK would be a good idea.

    >>If you’re getting along with him, and you like to cook, you can offer him a home-cooked dinner. Normally I would say NEVER DO THIS – but he’s flown all this way, so you have to give BACK something. I don’t want you taking him somewhere and paying, so cooking him dinner (and letting him help you shop if he likes, and help you in the kitchen) is a fine compromise.

    >>Giving back is very different from feeling like you OWE him something. Accept the fact that he flew out and consider it the wonderful thing that you deserve.

    >>You get to feel – and be – casual. The investment is NOT YOURS – it’s HIS – as it SHOULD BE!!! And I want you to be okay with that.
    Share your feelings about all this – the pressure of having him fly so far and how to handle it. This will help take the pressure OFF.

    >>Ask him what he thinks instead offering your own opinions. If he asks for your advice, you can say “I don’t know” – or share with him what would feel good to YOU.

    >>Do not bring him to a family or friends gathering on purpose so they can meet him (like to a special dinner at your parent’s home). Anything else – a party with your friends, an invitation for a double or group date from curious friends or family – really feel how YOU feel about it – and don’t do anything that feels like some kind of obligation or test, or that might be stressful for either or you.

    >>The idea is to let him run this thing. So, if something would feel like fun for you, and you’re SURE it’s not because you want to “move this relationship forward,” ask HIM what he’d like to do.

    >>Now – all this is under the assumption that you LIKE him when you meet him. He may, after all, not be as advertised. He may look different, sound different, feel different, smell different than you imagine and than you like. So, handle that with grace – you owe him nothing.

    >>So – about how long he stays. This is a big experiment, an adventure with no rules. So you’re going to have to make them up. If you’re letting him run things, he’ll ask you. You’ll talk. You’ll share concerns. If you’re having fun, he’ll stay longer. If he doesn’t think this is working for him, he may make an excuse and go home OR – and this is important to watch for – if you’re having sex, he might stay way too long just because it feels good to him, and he can just go home and that’ll be it.

    >>You’ll have to be REALLY careful with your investment around sex. If you have sex – make sure it’s not allowing him to overstay if he has no real intentions toward you. If you don’t have sex – you’re way safer, but it might not be as much fun. Be okay with whatever choice you make – there’s no way to know how you’ll feel until you feel whatever you feel.

    >>If you’re not crazy about him, and you want him to leave, you’ll have to tell him this isn’t working for you, and you’d feel better cutting it short now.

    >>This is just a first date with a lot more pressure.

    Vickie, will you let us know how it goes? Perhaps I can incorporate what you’ve learned from this experience into a series of help for long-distance situations.

    Love, Rori


  7.  #7Zara on August 15, 2015 at 11:12 am

    Copy-pasted from Rori’s blog: “How To Attract Him Long-Distance – Just On The Phone”

    When all you have is the phone, email and texts to keep in touch with the man you love, because you live in different cities or even different countries, you have to know how to use what you’ve got.

    (In my Heart Connection Toolkit CD set, I teach you the Goodnight Talk, and walk you through how to do it along with in-depth instructions on how to do Feeling Messages all the time) – and here are a some basics for now:

    1. Do NOT talk business, logistics, plans or run through your day, your week, your evening. In other words – stay away from FACTS and DESCRIPTIONS.

    2. Instead, say how you FEEL about all these things. That could sound like (all you have is the phone, remember) “I felt so thrilled when my new client came in today…” or “I felt so overwhelmed with all the papers on my desk, and now it just feels so good to hear your voice…”

    Practice doing this – the Toolkit will help you tremendously – everywhere you are, all the time, with everyone, so that when it comes time to speak to your man, you’ll be able to do it without thinking.

    If he calls at a regular time each day, make sure you’re relaxed, sitting (or lying down) with something soft on your body and in your lap (like a cat, dog, cup of tea or a satin pillow) and speak in Feeling Messages, even if you’re talking about travel plans.

    You’re staying away from describing your life and what you want and what’s happening, and going for experiencing your life and what you want and feel and what’s happening – and then sharing that experience and those feelings about the experience.

    Try it – it’s a completely different way to be with a man, even over the phone, in texts and emails – and it will get you completely different results with your man.

    Everything will feel easier, smoother, juicier, sexier, closer, more intimate, more thrilling, more tingly – and he’ll call more, too!

    Let me know how this works for you…

    Love, Rori


  8.  #8Leela on August 15, 2015 at 3:05 pm


    I have 1 big hold back that is so badly engraved in my system that I want your advice on how to get rid of it.

    The question is about Circular Dating. I totally believe in it I think it’s the best thing since sliced bread but my up bringing is holding me back and I hate it. Here’s the thing: I was always told that men only want what they can’t get and somehow as a child I mis-figured out that men like cold ice queens and that being flirty is something dirty and forbidden. Today I know it’s not, but my fear still exists. Fear of being labelled as slut (for going out with more that one man at a time or just flirting and being fun and open) or that if I flirt or just smile at a man he will automatically assume that I will happily jump in bed with him the next minute.

    My strict upbringing is not the only cause. My first sexual experience was something I didn’t want to do and I was pressurised by a boy I liked, his friend was there watching us doing it, and I was only 12 or 13 years old, he was 15 or so. Later that year my whole school knew about it. I denied and thankfully all my friends believed me. After that there were more instances that could be classified as rape. When I think about it I simply see it as experience nor good or bad, I’m happy to be here and I love my life. However, I think I still carry the shame and guilt that is holding me back from connecting to men and most importantly myself. I’ve had a few relationships and it’s now 2 years since I haven’t had a proper one.

    I know romance feels good and so does CDing, because I’ve done it a little bit in the past.

    How do I get over this fear, guilt and shame?

    Which tools would you suggest me to do now to become a confident Circular Dater?

    Thank you

  9.  #9Millie on August 16, 2015 at 11:33 am

    I feel pretty bad today, for numerous reasons. One is the super hot cd… I already felt like he was inviting me to lean forward… And didn’t answer my questions when I asked what we would be doing on the date. He also asked me to come to his house and started making sexual jokes. This morning I still had t heard where and what and he texted asking when I was coming. I replied and told him it would help to know where we were meeting and also what… I admit I wasn’t soft and pink and feminine because in my mind I already decided I don’t want to go under the circumstances. He then replied and cancelled, providing a lengthy response about him having to help his mom and also sending me a screenshot of their text conversation. It made me feel bad I guess because it confirmed my suspicions that he wasn’t really interested.

    I feel sad about other things as well but I don’t want to post about them.

  10.  #10April Rose on August 16, 2015 at 1:32 pm

    Oooh, who wants to hear my realisations???

    I feel a little embarrassed but also delighted that I am learning major lessons.

    It’s funny isn’t it, how some things seem so obvious logically, yet they take YEARS to sink in experientially!!!

    Again, I found myself in a masculine role with the latest man, lets call him TG.

    Now, saying ‘masculine role’ sounds so cut and dried, yet what is happening with me is quite subtle. But before I go into that, let me share my exciting new vocabulary (Femininewoman, you might like this, I know how much you value the use of words)…

    A guy from my dance class actually came up with these words (which help me understand my role and what I want).
    I was struggling with the dance steps and exasperatedly said to my partner “I’ll stop trying to get it right and instead I’ll just follow you”. His answer surprised me. He said “Don’t follow me, dance with me. If you follow me you’ll always be behind”.


    So, I’m applying it to relationships. I feel my best and most natural feminine self when I am the RESPONDER, and the man is the INITIATOR.

    So… TG…. what has he done? He has turned the tables. He is acting like the ‘responder’. He says things like “I don’t mind where we go/what we do on our date. You choose”.

    It’s the ‘I don’t mind..’ that really makes me feel furious!!

    I am holding out for the relationship in which the man says “Sweetie, I know just the place that you will love and I want to take you there as soon as I get the chance”.

    Does anyone else find it sexy and good-feeling when a man is sure of himself, sure of his feelings for us, and full of beans about wanting to give us a great experience?

    To me, that is what romance is about. The penny finally dropped. Yay!
    Otherwise it is just buddies. Lacklustre. Mild. Unfulfilling!

  11.  #11April Rose on August 16, 2015 at 1:44 pm

    I hope Rori won’t mind me posting this snippet (from the latest newsletter) here…

    “When you try Circular Dating, you’re “practicing” how to create and receive attention and affection from men. You’re learning that you don’t have to “settle” for a man who isn’t perfect for you. You’re putting yourself first by promising yourself not to become exclusive with ANY man until he fully commits to you.”

  12.  #12April Rose on August 16, 2015 at 1:47 pm

    And that means that all the things you want from a relationship are on the cards or on the table.

    What do you want? Is it marriage? In that case, no exclusivity unless there is an engagement ring on your finger and a wedding date written on the calendar.

    I would go further. I think I will only concede to exclusivity ON MY WEDDING DAY!

    YAY!!! That felt FUN to write 🙂

  13.  #13Rori Raye on August 16, 2015 at 2:36 pm

    Leela.. I am so sorry for your pain and past experiences… And more women than not have experienced what you talk about. Abuse is rampant. I would really love to suggest that you get some private coaching with someone …there will be a new batch of trainees available to you for free in a few weeks… look for that list. There are women with experiences like yours who can help you… The process in Targeting Mr. Right is what you need to do. There is actually a whole section in there on trauma and how to use dating to heal yourself… Yes…actually dating, the way I see it is therapeutic. It’s just in how you look at it and how you do it …love, Rori

  14.  #14Femininewoman on August 16, 2015 at 3:31 pm

    April Rose 🙂

    Oh yeah

  15.  #15Ali on August 16, 2015 at 4:05 pm

    I was in a long distance relationship for 6 months (he in Cali and me in TX) before we moved in together. Now I live in Cali with him. We had met in person through work a decade before and re connected on Facebook. We made a point to see other in person a few times. Talk all the time. And we are together in person now. I guess the difference is we did see each other and had a game plan. I was familiar with the “imaginary relationship” thing from reading the blog and we both knew we needed to be in the same place to get under the roof and get to know each other. I have no regrets but, definitely have my doubts at times if I want this forever. I had tons of fears about relationships and this has taught me they aren’t as scary as I thought and I can still set boundaries.

  16.  #16Azure Blu on August 16, 2015 at 4:19 pm

    April Rose #10
    Yay YOU!!!
    Lovely and thank you for sharing !!!

    I love this:
    ““I’ll stop trying to get it right and instead I’ll just follow you”.
    His answer surprised me.
    He said “Don’t follow me, dance *WITH* me. If you follow me you’ll always be behind”.

  17.  #17Azure Blu on August 16, 2015 at 4:21 pm

    This makes so much sense now…
    When I am dancing with Spirit…
    He gets really excited and gives me MUCH praise
    when *I* am dancing WITH him…
    not hanging on and following!!
    It means I am paying attention to the music..
    counting my steps and participating
    and yet… HE is leading!

  18.  #18Azure Blu on August 16, 2015 at 4:25 pm

    Isn’t that what Rori teaches….
    Listen to LIFES music.. our music!!!
    Participate with our WHOLE hearts in OUR LIFE…
    Dance WITH our man
    NOT following behind,,,
    and yet he is leading!
    It is a very FINE line
    but what fun to keep learning
    and trying to get better at the DANCE of LOVE!!!

  19.  #19IamHis on August 16, 2015 at 7:35 pm

    Had an amazing session with Heather Allison.

    I was reminded that I am beautiful, & that I need to believe that I’m beautiful and that I need to let others see clearly that I’m beautiful and to stop hiding my beauty.

    I also need to speak up and not be afraid.

  20.  #20Zia on August 16, 2015 at 7:37 pm

    Ladies can you help me refresh with my scripts and feeling messages. My fiance came back from a week away on Saturday night and it was soooooooo great to see him (he surprised me by coming home a day early). He was super excited and happy to be home, and I was happy to have him back. Yesterday however something started to feel off. You know when for whatever reason the other person seems a bit aloof, or off, and some of the comments and actions made me start feeling a bit…. well in my head it was “he’s back one day and already has had enough of me”

    So last night I woke up in the middle of the night and still was feeling that way and due to being quite emotional at the moment (thanks, hormones!) started crying and he asked what was wrong. I said “I feel sad, and emotional”. When he asked why, I said “I feel like you’ve been back a day and that you’ve already had enough of me”.

    He said of course that is not the case (and I know it’s not, I believe him) and he was very comforting. I am wondering what other ways I could have explained what was wrong without making him wrong? I use feeling messages as a way to open the communication 95% of the time, but then I sometimes forget where to go from there. Would I say something like… “It felt so good when you came home to know you missed me and wanted to see me”… and then? Just using this as a practice exercise as it’s already in the past. What would you do?

    He really is a wonderful person and every day I appreciate how much he cares for me and accepts me for who I am – I never have to worry about feeling upset or emotional in his presence because he always wants to do the right thing by me. I am not afraid of being me with him.

  21.  #21Femininewoman on August 16, 2015 at 7:50 pm

    Zia I’d say own your part of the issue. “I started to tell myself” or “I heard chatter in my head that you had enough of me”. I do think though that you might need to include what was said or what behavior of his was involved. If you could find a fun way to share it maybe it would take some of the edge off. Like saying maybe the monkeys in my head were chattering.

    Better yet if you could look back at the moment to just observe yourself and learn from it, it might be even better than needing to share anything.

  22.  #22Zia on August 16, 2015 at 8:51 pm

    FW – that is a good point. I’d already had a few episodes with tears earlier in the day, where I went somewhere to be by myself to see if I could work through it on my own. Earlier in the night he asked what was wrong and I said nothing, but that felt inauthentic to me. But saying something simple like “the monkeys were chattering” is a nice way of saying it without being accusing. I want to be able to navigate this emotional/hormonal time relatively smoothly if possible. I am aware that I am more sensitive than usual and I don’t want him to feel like he has to tip toe around me.

  23.  #23Indigo on August 16, 2015 at 9:33 pm


    How would you feel about asking him for what you need? For example, “could you just hold me/tell me you love me” or “a hug would feel so good”. Sometimes I’ve found identifying what I need or would make me feel better in the moment to be a great way of taking care of myself. And men enjoy being able to *do* something to fix the problem and make you happy.

  24.  #24Zia on August 16, 2015 at 9:46 pm

    23 Indigo – that is also a great point. Because what I wanted right then WAS a cuddle/hug. That would have made me feel better for sure. And he would have done that if I had asked.

  25.  #25Indigo on August 16, 2015 at 9:55 pm

    On that note, Sirens I could use your feedback/help in dealing with a situation of my own. Just thoughts and suggestions would feel helpful.

    Like many of us, I have a longstanding issue with female friends of the man I’m with. I’m a sensitive person and very sensitive to the energy of people around me – and I love this about myself. When it comes to other women though, this presents a hurdle for me, and as a result I have just always felt that close female friends were a dealbreaker. It does not help that women lean forward so much nowadays and are so much in their masculine energy to try and get scraps of attention from men. It all feels super icky to me – mostly because I know to my core that as a woman you don’t *need* to do any of that. It truly bothers me to see women behaving in attention-seeking ways because women are gorgeous wonderful creatures in and of themselves; due to my sensitivity I can *feel* their insecurity and it makes me SO SO uncomfortable. It is hard to describe just how uncomfortable it makes me. However, I have learnt to deal with this, but when it comes to my man having close female friends it puts an added strain on me that I do not want to deal with.

    So, I am with a man who is definitely very faithful and would not cheat on me. I am not worried about that. However, he has a female friend who definitely falls into the “insecure, attention-seeking” category. Other women have apparently felt uncomfortable around her in the past, and I felt uncomfortable around her within the first hour of meeting her. It has caused me to cut the two times BikeCD and I have hung out with her and her boyfriend short. I don’t regret doing that because I value my feelings. However Bike has picked up that I feel uncomfortable and has started trying to “reassure” me which ends up making things much worse because now I feel like there is too much energy being put towards this woman.

    I won’t go into the specifics of what she does to make me feel uncomfortable, but suffice it to say that she seems to flaunt their friendship in front of my face – touching him occasionally, talking about all the work he’s done on her apartment, doing the helpless little girl act… it’s just the kind of thing which causes an eye-roll in me. Rather than feeling threatened I just find it a bit sad, however as I’ve said it just makes me want to avoid her. Her having a boyfriend doesn’t make me feel better for a couple of reasons, firstly because she seems a bit insecure in her relationship (I won’t go into the reasons for that but suffice it to say she gave me that impression), and secondly because it’s really not about the fact that I see her as a real threat, it’s more because of the amount of attention she seems to demand. When I hang out with my boyfriends or my own friends I just want to have a relaxed, easygoing time, not feel like there’s a woman around who’s constantly trying to prove herself.

    How do I approach this with my man? The strategy I’ve come up with is just to not stay long at the gatherings she’s at and to reduce the number of times we or I see her, and to just ignore it or leave the room when her name is mentioned. But it’s getting to the point where I think I’ll explode if I hear her name again – he’s trying to push me into being friends with her (or that’s how it feels) because obviously in his misguided way he thinks it’ll make me feel better. But I just don’t see that happening. Men can be really clueless sometimes 🙂

  26.  #26Sami Wunder on August 17, 2015 at 12:31 am

    # Zia – You are doing so great ! Please remember – Real love brings up anything unlike itself to be healed. When we finally find ourselves in the presence of a man who loves us, accepts us – just for who we are , the parts in us that we have not loved and accepted start to surface. In other words, your pain is coming up in his presence in a call to be healed. This is beautiful and this is a process I continuously go through with my husband and this is how I handle it – He asks – What´s wrong darling?
    My answer – Ah. It´s not you. It´s my stuff coming up… Thank you for loving me so much!

    In other words you make it not about him by admitting it´s your stuff, you appreciate him AND you give the space to support you and love you during a weak moment.

    My husband typically reacts by giving me the hugs and kisses I need in the moment and it feels so good… Intimacy is a deep and beautiful thing. When being imperfect, remember you are still the sweetest thing on the planet to the man who loves you. Love, Sami

    # Indigo – I truly, madly, deeply hear you 🙂 I feel sensitive to the energy of women around me and frankly I accept and reject based on my feelings and my husband respects it. Here is what I would say –
    “I don´t feel comfortable around her. You are welcome to go ahead without me ( if that´s your truth?)
    The work is in going on like a broken record till the man gets it that you are not looking to be pacified or reassured but it´s simply the energy that is not clicking and you will not take it. Makes sense? Love, Sami

    # Other Fellow Sirens – For those of you who have not yet written or spoken with me, I am happy to take up your questions personally in my blog so feel free to send them to me. Love ! Sami

  27.  #27Indigo on August 17, 2015 at 12:50 am


    Thank you. Your words feel amazing and sit very right with me. I will approach it that way from now on.

  28.  #28Sami Wunder on August 17, 2015 at 1:03 am

    You are so welcome my dear diva ! Keep going xo

  29.  #29Indigo on August 17, 2015 at 2:30 am


    When you said “Here is what I would say –
    “I don´t feel comfortable around her. You are welcome to go ahead without me ( if that´s your truth?)”

    What if I don’t want him to go or to see her (I don’t mean not at all, just not much), do I have a right to ask that?

  30.  #30Sami Wunder on August 17, 2015 at 5:12 am

    Indigo – Such a great question and I can understand that you are considering this option…

    I could say so much here but to give you a clear answer, I will have to dig deeper into where you are coming from given your particular situation. The best way for us to do this would be through a free session that I offer for 30 mins or one free email. Just get in touch! Love, Sami

  31.  #31IamHis on August 17, 2015 at 8:41 am

    I also really want to thank Labbit, I believe it was her, for calling what happened to me at work by its rightful name: sexual harassment. It’s such an important issue in regards to our power and self-esteem, not just as women, but as human beings. When we are sexually attracted to and care about the men who take advantage of us, it is incredibly difficult to think clearly, establish and maintain physical, emotional, & spiritual boundaries, and to protect our hearts and bodies.

    I have been doing a ton of research about this topic, and I have found several great articles that I plan to share on here with Rori’s permission, in the near future.

    Thank you to all the women on here who “saw” and “heard” me, when I was blinded with infatuation and confusion.

    I feel excited to explore these topics and issues further.

  32.  #32Leela on August 17, 2015 at 9:08 am

    Rori, thank you so much for your response. I will re-watch Targeting Mr. Right. I really intend to use dating as therapy for healing and opening up. I might not be ready for the Mr. Right though, so at the moment I just want to date many, many men to experience and explore. Not sure about having a session though, I would feel uncomfortable to speak about my past.

    I just watched the first part of your Modern Siren that I purchased years ago again and I can feel my vibe shifting. I can’t believe how sexy my voice gets when I just slow down, and my whole energy feels sexy to me. For me it’s been back and forth for the last couple of years. For some reason it’s been hard for me to stick to all the stuff that you teach even though I know it works like magic. Maybe deep down I don’t believe that I deserve all the attention and love and the men. And that’s why I tend to choose my old tricks that don’t work instead (being a “bitch” and playing hard to get) just to find myself feeling miserable again. And because “strategies” are easy. They don’t require to work on yourself like Rori’s stuff. They are focused on a man so no self work and development involved. Yes, sometimes I’m just lazy. If I want a Modern-Siren- kind-of-life I need to stick and commit to the tools that actually do work though.

    Love you Rori xx

  33.  #33Labbit on August 17, 2015 at 12:07 pm

    Indigo — Would you feel the same way if a male friend of BikeCD’s was doing similar things? I personally WOULD feel uncomfortable whether the friend was male or female, so I ask because when I read your comments it feels to me like you’re giving a lot of the power to her being female when really she’s just a person who makes you feel uncomfortable…her being female lies on top of that, it’s not part of that. (Though maybe to you IT IS integral, tied together. I’m not sure.)

    Anyway, I’d probably tell BikeCD my truth if I were in your shoes. I’d preface it by saying, ‘This may not seem rational, but it’s how I feel and it would feel great to me if you could hear me out and talk about this with me, as I feel awkward bringing it up…’

    And then I’d probably say something along the lines of, ‘When we are around so-and-so together, I feel weird and uncomfortable. I don’t feel comfortable being myself and I don’t like that. And that weird vibe sticks to us and I feel the effects of it AFTER we’ve been with her together, or after you’ve seen her. That is why I would like to see less of her. I know that she is a close friend of yours so I hope I’m being respectful of that…however I feel a bad energy around that makes me feel bad, and I’m not looking to be around it any more than necessary. What do you think?”

    And then I’d be ready to hear whatever he has to say, understanding that he may say she’s a close friend and he’s not willing to let her go…and if he says that, I would work to find a compromise and ask if we could revisit it, say, a month from now. In this way you’re planting the seed of how you feel without forcing him to change. How does this feel to you?

  34.  #34Labbit on August 17, 2015 at 12:13 pm

    On the topic of female friends of our boyfriends/husbands/dates I have found it very effective to practice behavior extinction — which is basically positively reinforcing the behaviors I DO like and ignoring those I don’t to ‘kill’ them off. For example if a female friend of Tender’s starts getting overly touchy with him or flirty, I will immediately go cold, look in another direction and stand with one foot behind the other. I let a feeling of boredom wash over me. Even if she can’t feel Tender DEFINITELY can and he is great about gently taking their hands off him and taking mine instead. The women get bored themselves very quickly and usually change the subject on their own, no effort from my part required. 🙂

    If that doesn’t work I will start sending romantic energy his way and thinking about all the chivalrous things he does for me, and this also seems to work like a charm in pulling his attention back to me.

  35.  #35Azure Blu on August 17, 2015 at 1:01 pm

    Mmmmmm… yes… I so love reading how you
    use your vibe to bring him close…
    I am getting better at feeling a shift in my vibe or “his” vibe…
    now to start changing and
    channeling my vibe!!
    Sooo powerful!!!

    I do struggle with the female friends of my boyfriend…
    I love how you have crafted this script…
    I have pasted and copied it into my archives…
    Thank you!!

  36.  #36Tereana on August 17, 2015 at 3:02 pm

    Ali, I feel super happy that your LDR worked out. And I think you are right – the difference is that you knew him from before, in person, and you had a “game plan.” Sometimes, maybe it is hard to know when the game plan is real and when it’s not. But if you’ve met the man in person, then there is more accountability there. Depending ok the type of relationship. I guess these are the things you “find out.”

  37.  #37Tereana on August 17, 2015 at 3:08 pm

    Ali, I also really appreciated where you said relationships are “not as scary” as you thought. That means a lot for me, and it’s a new thought. And it’s good to hear from someone on the “inside.” Because I find myself perpetually scared of them, usually for no good reason.

  38.  #38Liquid Light on August 17, 2015 at 4:43 pm

    I agree with Labbit 32, there’s no reason to feel ashamed about feeling uncomfortable or jealous around a BF’s female friends. Its totally natural and human. I would also encourage you to share how you are feeling with BikeCD, Indigo.

    I think the end goal of much of this work, is to be authentic and genuine, without blame. (The latter is the part that I struggle with but I’m working on it.) And that goes for everything. I know its hard sometimes, but I bet you it would foster deeper intimacy and closeness with BikeCD if you shared your vulnerability around this sensitive issue. (Maybe you already have, don’t know.)

    Anyway, just my 2 cents.

  39.  #39Zia on August 17, 2015 at 5:26 pm

    #26 Sami – thank you, I love that 🙂

  40.  #40Tereana on August 17, 2015 at 6:07 pm

    Hi Ladies…I’ve been having so many thoughts swirling in my head recently. Is it this New Moon?

    Ugh. Speaking on long distance relationships meaning nothing…I had plans to meet up with a guy in a different city. We do know each other from meeting in person. From every indication, this man meant to come meet with me, and said he would “take care of everything,” meaning the hotel and whatnot. It’s cheesy, I know. It was my trip, really. Something I am doing for myself. I already bought the plane ticket. And he was going to meet me there, and pay for these other things. Well, then he backed out. And why? Because his new fun hobby, he said, is costing too much. He can’t afford “another expense.”

    So that’s me. I somehow went from being someone he wanted to meet up with, to spend time and money traveling to see, someone who “deserved it,” to being “to expensive,” on a par with a material hobby, and oh, by the way, not as exciting and not worth the “expense.”

    I ranted at him only a little.

    I suppose I should be proud of myself for not saying all the “crazy” things I could have. I could be prouder, maybe, if I had not responded at all. But his message really ruined my evening. I had known he might not meet me there. But he had given me his word. He hadn’t paid for it, just given his word. And I was consciously trusting him to take care of the things on his own terms. So it makes me feel bad to be let down in this way. I feel used, even though I was probably the one using him, in a way. But I also sincerely liked the guy. Even though I couldn’t see being in a real relationship with him. He’s not a “relationship guy.”

    He did me a favor, is what he did.

    He did me a stinky, icky-feeling favor. But it was still a favor.

    What gets me isn’t this one moment. It’s that there is this pattern – that men will promise me something, and then back out at the last moment, or at least before “consummating” the promise. And the pattern is that I get upstaged by something else – a hobby, work, family, friends. Whatever it is. Fill-in-the-blank. Something else in the man’s life ends up taking precedence over me. And I feel powerless against this. How can I get in a man’s head and tell him what his priorities are? I can’t. All I know is, I want to be the priority. Maybe not me, per se, but I want the relationship to be the most important thing, more than anything else. More than the hobbies, more than work, more than friends. And that, somehow, all those things can coexist. I can be the priority, at the same time all those other things are also important.

    Maybe that’s a game that needs to happen inside my own head. Maybe that issue isn’t really about the guys, or anyone else, but about me FEELING like I am less important, less, valuable, less worthy – as if I carry less weight in the world. I do feel that way. I feel sick thinking about it. Or maybe that’s just the heat.

    But anyway, that’s my main goal/focus right now: changing that deep-seated belief.

    It’s a sticky one, let me tell you.

  41.  #41Tereana on August 17, 2015 at 6:16 pm

    Oh. Oh oh oh. One other thing.

    I had another “take” on what I just said in #39. All of that is true. AND…

    I tried on different thoughts “for size” today. And I was making up all these stories, which generally made me feel bad. I lost a lot of sleep last night, thinking about this, and how he didn’t want to see me, feeling abandoned, basically.

    But today, I did something different. I thought about what he texted me, and I tried just taking him at his word. He said he couldn’t afford it. He sent a sad smiley face. Maybe he really means it. Maybe he really is sad.

    Maybe I can buy his words, even though, technically speaking, his hobby is a choice. It’s expensive and he chooses to spend money on it. He doesn’t have to. He works for a very successful major tech company. He makes plenty of money. I am sure that he could “afford” to spend the money on the trip to see me. Those are the things that cast doubt into my mind.

    But thinking that way FEELS bad. Thinking that way is FIGHTING. I have been taught to fight. I am a warrior when it comes to relationships, and not always in the good way. Usually not. Instead of going to war for the person I’m in the relationship with, or the relationship itself, I am battling against the coupleship, and the person I am supposed to be partnering with. It’s the exact opposite. O.M.F.G. Whoa.

    This is huge.

    If I could turn this process around, then I might – just might – be able to be in a relationship for a long time, just like I’ve always wanted…Oh, I feel sweet tears of hope welling up in my eyes. I’ve been feeling so helpless and so hopeless for so long. I really want something to give me even one ray of hope to feel like things can get better…it certainly feels pretty bleak around me, relationship wise, right now…hm….i know it won’t last, but that is how it feels, right at this moment….

  42.  #42Tereana on August 17, 2015 at 7:46 pm

    I kind of tuckered myself out. I let my thoughts swim around with feelings, and stopped myself from acting on them, reaching out. Even though part of me really wanted to. But I saw that as the “ego” part of me, the “hurt” part of me, which was going to be predictable and act out anger.

    I felt sadness, disappointment. But in what, really?

    When I focus off of that, what I see is a guy who meant basically nothing of value to me, stepping off my path and making way for someone who is of value to me, who can be what I need, and offer me the things I truly desire.

    What do I say to him now? The truth? I don’t want his gifts. I don’t want his money. I don’t want anything from him. It’s all nothing. If he respected me, that would be one thing. But he doesn’t. And that’s all that matters

  43.  #43Maggiemay on August 17, 2015 at 8:06 pm

    Been reading this site a long time, but new to comment.

    You know how Rori is always saying that if you go no contact and move on that men will come back around?

    I just had one come back today after 5 years! I was floored when I answered the phone. Talked for a while, but not going to date him. There is a reason we broke up and mostly men don’t change. So uh, NO. And I am nowhere near the doormat I used to be. So I imagine it would never work.

  44.  #44Millie on August 17, 2015 at 11:50 pm

    I hope some new, good men come into my life soon. I want someone to come to… I want to get courted and engaged… I wAnt to go through all of those wonderful beginning steps again, to feel that hope and excitement. To feel like I trust the man in front of me… Those experiences are ao rare, I hate that it feels like swinging from rung to rung on a jungle gym. I don’t want to be alone anymore. I liked the way it was. Can I have that again? Sometime soon? While I’m still of child bearing years and have a hot body? Or do I have to wait another five years? Patience has never been my virtue. I read this article about how my generation is set up to fail in marriages because of numerous things, one being how the dating scene has changed by online dating. It’s too much to write but I found it really interesting and decided to commit to dating the natural way. Let’s see who the universe sends me.

    Still broken up about M. I think about him every day. When I leave work I remember how hed text me, meet me at my place… Now I have no one excited that I’m off work. It doesn’t matter if I work late now. I tear up thinking about it. I imagine he’s waiting for me at my apartment, ready to beg my forgiveness and tell me he messed up. But he’s never there.

  45.  #45April Rose on August 18, 2015 at 3:52 am

    Aw, feeling a little sad and silly. And also happy and joyous and sparkly.

    It was my birthday yesterday.

    I posted here “It’s my birthday!!” feeling all excited. I just noticed that the post didn’t come through, and so none of you knew. 🙁

    I had a most delicious-feeling day, and I still feel shiny and happy today 🙂

  46.  #46Dominique on August 18, 2015 at 4:32 am

    April Rose – Wishing you sparkles and rainbows and everything you could wish for and then some. Happy! Happy!! Day!!! Week!!!! Month!!!! xxooxxoo

  47.  #47Indigo on August 18, 2015 at 5:10 am

    Labbit & Liquid Light,

    Thank you so much for your posts 🙂 I feel like I’ve got this now.

  48.  #48Indigo on August 18, 2015 at 5:10 am

    April Rose,

    Wishing you a wonderful birthday 🙂 Big warm birthday hugs!!


  49.  #49Sapphire on August 18, 2015 at 5:43 am

    Our memories can be painful.
    How about seeing the whole picture about M the good and bad. If we only remember the good bits and not his faults then we put the man on a pedestal and create more longing and pain for ourselves.

    Love Sapphire

  50.  #50Azure Blu on August 18, 2015 at 7:13 am

    I am so sorry to read about this man who
    did not do what he said he would…
    BUT I love how you have realized
    this is a imaginary relationship
    this is perfect and shows
    how much YOU are loving YOU!!!

    “I felt sadness, disappointment.
    But in what, really?

    “When I focus off of that, what I see is a guy who meant basically nothing of value to me,
    stepping off my path and making way for someone who is of value to me,
    who can be what I need,
    and offer me the things I truly desire.

    “What do I say to him now?
    The truth? I don’t want his gifts.
    I don’t want his money.
    I don’t want anything from him.
    It’s all nothing.
    If he respected me,
    that would be one thing.
    But he doesn’t.

    Because YOU respect you
    and are accepting NOTHING LESS
    from any CD!!!

  51.  #51Azure Blu on August 18, 2015 at 7:19 am

    April Rose!!!
    *Happy* *Happy**Happy**Happy**Happy**Happy**Happy**Happy*Happy Birthday darling Siren!!
    Do all the wonderful things YOU love to do
    See all the people you love and cherish
    pamper and spoil you
    eat lots of CAKE!!!

  52.  #52Azure Blu on August 18, 2015 at 8:05 am

    Good morning Sirens,
    Well, I am down to 2 CDs…
    I am ready to let K go…
    He had a massive heart attack 5 years ago
    Lost 100 lbs and beat the odds!! I have been appreciative of this amazing transformation!!!

    BUT he still smokes cigarettes and
    he has an awful cough… and shortness of breath!
    I am not willing to take on these health issues this late in my life…
    He is sweet and kind… and has told me he is falling head over heals in love (4th date)
    I should have spoken up on Friday
    when he was telling me about his feelings…
    I did mention it is only our 4th date…
    i am dating others (do I sound like a broken record?)
    But this is not the quality man I want….

    I have started letting Spirit fade off my radar…
    I don’t want to spend time with him that will take away from a man who is offering a REAL relationship…
    I still think about him daily, I try and stop this
    with some of Rori’s tools
    I miss him now that it has been 2 weeks on Wed. since we have seen each other…
    I don’t initiate contact… he text and we talked on the phone on Friday night…
    talked about his day (golfing) and that he loves me because I love the Tigers baseball -“Azure, you know that’s NOT the only reason”
    But it was 11:00 pm he didnt ask to see me
    and I had decided that if he asked i would sweetly say no…
    It amazes me how difficult he is to let go of!!

    I loved what Indigo said:
    “hope comes from the most beautiful and innocent part of ourselves,
    and that’s something to embrace and celebrate
    and love,
    even while we continue to pursue a better path.”
    it is my innocent heart
    that longs for more from Spirit than the imaginary relationship that we have…
    I love that innocent, beautiful heart!!!

    RM continues to bring his sexy masculine energy
    forward… planned another date on Friday
    Wants to see me after I visit my mother (she has been in the hospital and is now at home)
    in her town… at a restaurant…
    I’m liking him more…
    but want to keep dating others…
    I learn so much about men and about ME
    with all this dating…
    I have 4 that I am messaging on POF…
    we’ll see who I’ll meet next.

  53.  #53Indigo on August 18, 2015 at 8:35 am


    I hear you. I had lunch with D today – just a casual, short, sweet lunch as friends (or whatever you want to call it, we’re not friends yet). I still think about him almost daily and it was good to see him, and at one point I had to practically bite my tongue to stop myself from begging for more, but… I was absolutely solid in the fact that I can’t backslide for this guy. I need to continue on my path and continue to meet men who are open to a true relationship and who want the commitment that I want. I enjoyed seeing him – my head was spinning for a few moments after, and then it was over.

  54.  #54Indigo on August 18, 2015 at 8:37 am

    Wow, I was even able to say the words “I want to be married, and I want people who are just friends, I don’t want ANYTHING in between!” Yay me!!!

  55.  #55Azure Blu on August 18, 2015 at 9:37 am

    Indigor #51-2

    Wow… I feel happy you were strong and did NOT
    ask for more from D!!!
    the Powerful, loving Siren that you are!!!
    I love the self affirming words that you spoke out loud!!!
    “I want to be married, and I want people who are just friends, I don’t want ANYTHING in between!”
    YES!!!! oxoxo

  56.  #56Azure Blu on August 18, 2015 at 9:39 am

    Maya Angelou says:
    “I don’t trust people who don’t love themselves
    and tell me, “I love you.”
    “There is an African Saying which is: Be careful when a naked person offers you a shirt”

  57.  #57April Rose on August 18, 2015 at 1:06 pm

    Thank you sweet Dominique, Indigo and Azure Blu for the birthday wishes. I’m feeling a deep breath bringing warmth to my heart.

  58.  #58April Rose on August 18, 2015 at 1:08 pm

    TG phoned me and wanted to meet me ‘to talk’.

    I felt turned off. I have decided that serious discussions are only for my serious partner, i.e. HUSBAND.

    Men in general who are interested in me can ask me out and take me on FUN DATES.

  59.  #59April Rose on August 18, 2015 at 1:11 pm

    I want to think of a term that I can use for men who are not my husband.

    So that I can keep them in a practical place in my heart.
    A holding zone – that is not the INNER SANCTUM.

    That way I’m less likely to become invested too soon, in someone who hasn’t earned the right to call me his WIFE!!!

  60.  #60Lovergirl on August 18, 2015 at 1:19 pm

    April Rose- Happy Birthday!! Mine is in less than 2 weeks. 🙂

    Indigo- congrats on holding strong with D.

    Azure- I wish you strength in your journey with Spirit.

    Me, right now, I’m struggling with so much anger towards S. I just feel like he has been so unfairly cruel towards me. I want nothing from him at this point but an apology. I feel like he owes me an apology but I’m not counting on ever getting it. He had asked me the other day, never to call or text him again and I have no intention of doing so.

    I look back at our text conversation and the email I sent him and I am just bewildered at how he could react in such a nasty way. I was apologetic when I shouldn’t have been. I really don’t feel I did anything wrong or deserving of the way he responded.

    I’m just feeling anger towards pretty much all men for being so damned difficult to understand and deal with.

  61.  #61April Rose on August 18, 2015 at 1:52 pm

    I wanted to share this article from a friend of mine who I recently found out is a love coach. A lot of what she writes sounds very Rori… I wonder…..?


  62.  #62April Rose on August 18, 2015 at 1:55 pm

    My birthday wish number 2 is …

    …for each of us sirens to feel glorious and complete in ourselves, radiating that inner juice which MAGNETISES our great man to us, so that we enjoy the relationship that is DEEP, EASY, and FUN !!!

  63.  #63Sassy on August 18, 2015 at 4:47 pm


    May this next year of your life be filled with juicy, warm, fulfilling love and light and serenity!

    Love love love

  64.  #64Labbit on August 18, 2015 at 5:32 pm

    Happy Birthday April Rose!!! I hope you had a lovely, uplifting day filled with the things you love to do.

  65.  #65Dixie on August 18, 2015 at 7:33 pm

    Happy birthday April Rose! I am so happy that you felt sparkly today. Birthdays always feel like such a wonderful gift….a chance to dream, imagine and wish on stars.

    Here’s hoping that all your lovely dreams come true this year!!


  66.  #66Tereana on August 18, 2015 at 7:36 pm

    Happy Birthday, April Rose!! 🙂

  67.  #67Tereana on August 18, 2015 at 7:43 pm

    And thank you, Azure Blu!

    This has definitely been a deep-reaching-inward experience for me. A jagged growth-edge of myself. But useful in that way.

    It’s been weirdly empowering to *not* reach back and say all the things thst were “on my mind” to say to him – not to act out the story and the drama I was telling myself in my head. It made me soften toward him, even a little (while keeping in mind the kind of man he’s shown himself to be). And I feel sexier, more composed, more centered.

    Sometimes I forget, and think I have texted him everything, as I imagined. But then I remember where I stopped. It was bad enough at that point. But I didn’t make it any worse.

    I did send a hello text to my ex. That’s a waste of time. I was just thinking about him. He’ll never be anything more than an amusement for me, at this point.

    I’m waiting until I feel “ready” to start CDing again in earnest. I’m almost there. I need to “percolate” a bit more. I’m just warming up, in a way. And once I start, I have a feeling that will take care or any unresolved issues puttering about at the moment…

  68.  #68Millie on August 18, 2015 at 11:08 pm

    Sapphire you are right!

    Happy birthday April Rose! Hope you had a beautiful day 🙂

  69.  #69Indigo on August 19, 2015 at 1:05 am

    Thanks Lovergirl.

    As far as S is concerned, remember that with men anger is often how they deal with intense emotions like fear. I would encourage you to let his cruel responses help you to put distance between you and him. I went through this – many times – with D, and in the end his refusing to speak to me did me a big favour. Even so, I would encourage you not to take his words and outbursts personally. He is probably most angry at himself, and very afraid. Men like this, who are so closed up, are deathly terrified of the vulnerability that intimacy brings. They are selfish too, and don’t know how to care for your feelings. I finally, after a very long time, realised this with D, and now finally, as terrible as it sounds, can let his cruel responses wash right over and past me, while at the same using it to help propel me forward on my path, away and towards what I really want.

  70.  #70Indigo on August 19, 2015 at 1:10 am

    I feel like I want to stay close to the blog for the next few days. I don’t want to talk about it, I just need love and support.

  71.  #71Kim on August 19, 2015 at 6:15 am

    Hi girls! I am away on a two-day jolly by myself and loving it!
    Ironically, I am using a train ticket that a CD (Boston) bought for me to see him up there but I decided not to go and said I would pay him back the ticket and re-use it for something else. He said to just keep it and have fun!
    How gracious of him.
    So I have been re-booking it and finally ended up using it right now, a year later, when I feel like I need some space from MoM.
    We had a little talk the other day (I had already planned my getaway anyway), and basically what transpired was that
    he is quite happy with the way things are. I did not bring up marriage, as I am not going to. I just said that I am a little disappointed at where I am in my life and need to take steps to get myself back to where I want ro be, professionally and socially, which means I might have to move back to Europe. He kinda sulked and said nothing except that he thought we had a future together, to which I replied it was what I wanted but I see no plan for that future and it scares me.
    He then went into the whole thing about how he only moved in four months ago, and it’s all very early blah blah blah.
    We have been dating over 2 years with a couple of interruptions…4 months living together and it’s now too early to talk about topics of our future we talked about 8 months ago LOL. Going backwards much?
    Well, I am not interested in going backwards.
    I have also read a lot about these issues and apparently, it is totally unlikely for a man past 45 who has never been married and been in long relationships (without proposing), that he ever will.
    I am definitely not here to change his mind or change him and I am going to cut my losses before the end of this year.
    I am a spontaneous, full of life/love/adventure type of person and this kind of dilly dallying (generally) sucks the life out of me.
    That’s that.
    Now off to do some exploring, museums etc.
    So excited! 🙂
    Hope you are all doing well!!

  72.  #72victoria on August 19, 2015 at 6:41 am

    I can’t write much but I am here for you and sending you love and good vibrations.
    I finally had to break up with F due to the other guy… F is completely heart broken and is trying to promise me the world. I feel like shit actually causing him so much pain.
    How are you?

  73.  #73Azure Blu on August 19, 2015 at 6:51 am

    We are all here for you on Siren Island
    and I want you to know that
    i am sending warm, loving huggs
    to you…

    you have come so far…

    You are an inspiring Siren for me…

    I don’t know what you are going thru
    Maybe remember…
    The intensity that you and Bike
    had in the beginning…
    is usually followed by both of you
    needing some space…
    to think about who you each are
    how it fits into your now and future
    and allllll the wonderful things
    you DO like about each other!!!

    Sami Wonder says:
    “You are doing so great ! Please remember – Real love brings up anything unlike itself to be healed.
    When we finally find ourselves in the presence of a man who loves us, accepts us –
    just for who we are ,
    the parts in us that we have not loved and accepted start to surface.
    In other words, your pain is coming up in his presence
    in a call to be healed. ”

  74.  #74Azure Blu on August 19, 2015 at 6:56 am

    I am so sorry to hear about your break up with F
    Sending you warm loving huggs!!!
    Darling Siren….
    I know this must be so hard…
    even though it was your decision…
    you have considered this for quite awhile
    and embraced the Rori tools
    to move closer to him emotionally!!!

  75.  #75Azure Blu on August 19, 2015 at 7:01 am

    I hope you are enjoying your 2 day jaunt!!!
    I do really like how you used your feeling messages
    and did NOT blame MoM for anything
    and expressed YOUR feelings and wants!!!
    You are a mighty Siren!!!
    Soft on the outside… Strong on the inside!!!

  76.  #76victoria on August 19, 2015 at 7:10 am

    Thanks so much. I would have kept them both but R. Insists on exclusivity. And, he is treating me like no one before. I actually realized that F. Is hopeless… But a part of me is very sad over the choice I had to make. And, he calls and writes asking for another chance. And keeps saying he thought I was happy… I feel k like a monster

  77.  #77Kim on August 19, 2015 at 7:18 am

    (((Victoriaaaaa))) you are not a monster. F is not a child and you are not responsible for him.
    Break-ups are not easy. Don’t blame yourself for how he is feeling now. He will be fine!
    We all have to go through these awful times.
    Don’t let these feelings of guilt mar your new relationship….you deserve this!

  78.  #78Kim on August 19, 2015 at 7:19 am

    Thank you Azure, eh, I haven’t been very Sireny about it honestly. More matter of fact.
    I do not want to be pushed into the man role, which is how this would end up…no.

  79.  #79Indigo on August 19, 2015 at 9:42 am

    Thank you very much Victoria and Azure Blu 🙂 xx


    I am sorry yet happy for you about your break up with F. I totally get how you feel, yet I really admire your clarity and how you put yourself first.

    I am well, I’ve just had a rough week. One thing after another (why why why does it happen like that?). 3 upsetting incidents in the space of two days.

  80.  #80Indigo on August 19, 2015 at 9:47 am


    Oh I so totally hear you. I admire how you have stuck it out with MoM for so long, him being the way he is, even while he’s a good guy.

    I’m totally with you on the spontaneous/full of life and love energy – I love relaxing and being calm and easygoing, yet I’m extremely practical so I really love and need a plan. Wishy washy just drives me bonkers.

  81.  #81Kim on August 19, 2015 at 10:05 am

    (((Indigo))) yes, why does it always happen like that! One year I lost my relationship and a job (place went bankrupt), and also my house (to the bf and his new partner)…it took me 2 years to recover from all these calamities at once! Guess what? It makes us stronger……

    And yes…wishy washy and no decision making…eeek. Inam wondering which part of me that mirrors. I do have that side too, which is why I like a strong male counterpart. Like I said before, he makes a fantastic boyfriend….but I am now doubtful he would make a great husband. He really has no direction in life other than staying in his (first) job and playing computer games…and maybe it is a blessing in disguise that he can’t make up his mind and decide anything.
    It’s a turn off.
    I would love to move to the Keys…so would he….but all he comes up with is reasons why he can’t, which are basically he likes the people he works with.
    I mean, if I had a qualification like he has, and the opportunity for learning, growing and doing my own thing or changing jobs for my betterment, i would jump at the chance.
    Turns out he is waiting for retirement to start his life. This is what he said, that in 20 years he will be retired and then he can move.
    Who knows what happens in 20 years, we might both be dead…or he has been fired meanwhile, or lost his pension.
    Very undealistic thinking and planning in this day and age I find!!

  82.  #82April Rose on August 19, 2015 at 10:20 am

    Thank you for all the lovely birthday wishes. I felt so surprised to see them all!

  83.  #83April Rose on August 19, 2015 at 10:26 am

    I would like to talk about wishy washy.

    Other words are ‘flaky’, ‘lukewarm’, ‘lack-lustre’, ‘lazy’, and many more.

    My latest theory is that it can be caused by poor diet.

    TG doesn’t eat fresh vegetables. Except the one time I cooked for us. There is a kind of stubborn pride in his eating of “the food Mom raised me on”.

    I read an article in which it said that testosterone levels can drop due to lack of certain vitamins and minerals.

    I am going to tell TG why I am no longer as interested in a relationsip with him as I was. For the above reasons. Does that sound disrespectful? Emasculating? Maybe he will give it some thought…

  84.  #84Azure Blu on August 19, 2015 at 10:57 am

    I agree with Kim…
    You are NOT a monster….
    You have worked at changing YOU
    you have stopped YOUR part in the relationship issues with F
    and given him Many chances to step up!!!

    He is all grown up… or he needs to grow up more
    and YOU ARE doing him a favor
    The universe has lessons he needs to learn
    and you can’t help him with those lessons…
    Of course you love and care about him
    BUT YOU deserve a Great man!!

  85.  #85Mandy on August 19, 2015 at 11:00 am

    Just checking in…

    Well, I have my three CD’s, and possibly a fourth or fifth…the guys are swarming. It’s like they know I’m open now.

    Yes, I have to admit, I have one I favor, but I can’t give him more time than the rest, in fact I know if I have better things to do than worry about him liking me, I have the best chance of it.

    So, here’s to staying busy, tinkering, researching classes, improving my transportation situation (I am a pedestrian and the bus system is striking right now.) Here’s to dating myself, watching a good movie, here’s to running and cleaning and taking care of myself…here’s to finding contentment in myself…

    Here’s to the spice of life…

    here’s to me finally someday soon being able to say what I need to to J, and be how I was born…free…

  86.  #86April Rose on August 19, 2015 at 11:33 am


    I feel light and inspired reading about your dating life. You just gave me a boost! Thank you

  87.  #87April Rose on August 19, 2015 at 11:37 am

    Re. wishy washy

    I am calling TG wishy washy because of how I’m feeling in our interaction.

    Takig it back to myself, I’m feeling turned off, uninspired, puzzled.

    I want to feel the buzz of a man’s confident interest and his excitement at leading the relationship into new unexplored territory. Beginning with thinking up a date for us!

  88.  #88Azure Blu on August 19, 2015 at 11:39 am

    April Rose #83
    I’m wondering…
    Is a man’s diet our responsibility?
    It sounds kinda like a Mom…

    Are you sure it’s the food that is the REAL issue?
    Have you told him all the wonderful things
    he DOES do when you think about food and him?

    and how YOU feel about the beautiful, luscious vegetables and how wonderful YOU feel when you’re
    picking them out at the store or from the garden,
    bringing them to your cozy, warm house
    and washing them under the cool running water?

    I do understand what your saying though,,,
    The quality of food a man is interested in eating
    does impact some of my thoughts on
    if he is the right man for me….
    BUT if everything else is amazing…
    is this a mirror for you?

    Have you discussed food and food choices with him before?

  89.  #89April Rose on August 19, 2015 at 11:39 am

    Taking it even further back to myself…
    I want to feel secure. At ease in the feeling of joyous momentum that I am inviting yet THE MAN IS DRIVING.

  90.  #90Azure Blu on August 19, 2015 at 11:40 am

    Yay!!! Fabulous, Awesome Siren!!
    great job with all your cd’s and
    staying clear on what YOU want!!!

  91.  #91April Rose on August 19, 2015 at 11:42 am

    Oh Azure,

    I feel grateful for your thoughts.

    If only food was the only issue. It is one of FIVE borderline deal breakers, I’m afraid.

    I LOVED your feeling messages about vegetables. So visual and vibrant!

  92.  #92Azure Blu on August 19, 2015 at 11:46 am

    April rose #91
    Ohhh… that’s quite a few deal breakers…
    What are the other 4?

    Glad you liked my vegetable script!!! :0>
    I’ve been trying to practice with this more…

  93.  #93April Rose on August 19, 2015 at 1:05 pm

    Oh Azure,

    The other things are smoking, being extremely careful with money, and two astrological factors.

    Overall, though, it’s the absence of masculine drive.
    On the plus side, he likes to do practical tasks for me. Even though I don’t quite get that special and cherished feeling from his acts of service, I do make a point to appreciate him when he does them.

  94.  #94Kim on August 19, 2015 at 2:03 pm

    I am sitting in this really lovely southern themed cafe, on a screened in porch, while a typical Florida afternon storm rolls into the city…so lovely.
    I feel at peace and am spoiling myself – something I had neglected while being too busy with household chores and trying to make money.
    This feels good.
    I don’t even remember when I last was so ‘frivolous’ to treat myself to a nice little meal and a drink myself.
    I am always way too concerned about not spending money and being frugal.
    My man is missing me and has been texting me lots which is sweet.

  95.  #95Kim on August 19, 2015 at 2:13 pm

    April Rose, I hope you don’t mind me saying this but I would re-consider quite a few of those dealbreakers, as they are a little bogus (in my opinion). Apart from the ‘not much masculine energy’ perhaps.
    I have dated a smoker (who pretty much stopped when he realized I did not like it), food preferences are just that and unless he is eating fried mars bars all day long, let me ask you how you would feel if someone prescribed you a diet or insinuated that your hormones are out of whack – hence you are not as attractive or whatever – because you eat so and so.
    While I can underestand all this, being a healthy eater etc., I also feel like this is setting a barrier for intimacy with a man who might just come around…men DO change if they want to…and especially for their woman.
    It reminds me of a friend who has been single and bitter for years because she insists that a man dresses a certain way.
    Which is ludicrous and so disrespectful of people’s different characters. Since she insisted on a man who dressed right and made a certain amount of money, she got someone who did not cherish her and cheated on her.
    Honestly, I feel very strongly that we must get our priorities right, which are feeling loved, cherished and respected by a man. I don’t understand why that means he has to like broccoli. Or has to have a pisces ascendant. Unless we need to date a clone of ourselves, or just want to create a massive barrier for love.
    Being single isn’t that bad, I also have high standards for the men I date but…IDK. I hope you are not offended, just strikes me as putting up barriers to love.
    Although I am sure there are plenty of men who don’t smoke and eat broccoli and have a pisces ascendant or whatever…maybe they are cheaters or aggressive or mean…I think we need to pick our battles or stay alone.

  96.  #96April Rose on August 19, 2015 at 2:17 pm

    Oh Kim,

    You deserve to be spoiled. By you and anyone else.
    I love the picture you painted of the cafe in the storm and you there so cosy and happy enjoying a treat.
    I particularly enjoy the almost ‘secret’ atmosphere you conjure.

  97.  #97Kim on August 19, 2015 at 2:18 pm

    I guess I have seen a few men change a lot when they love a woman, including my own, who still had an 80’s hairstyle and clothes…I was not thrilled but it was not all that important to me…some other perhaps more serious things too. I watched and waited, and he pretty much changed them all by himself…cut his hair, changed his style a bit…and got rid of a few other habits and things that might have been dealbreakers maybe.
    Sometimes they just need a good woman to change, but they have to be willing to change by themselves…not by nagging or innocent ‘suggestions’. It happens.

  98.  #98Kim on August 19, 2015 at 2:19 pm

    Yes April Rose and thank you. I intend to spoil myself a lot more from now on! 🙂

  99.  #99Lovergirl on August 19, 2015 at 2:21 pm

    My ex husband was/is severely lacking in “masculine drive” and he’s kind of a health nut. We lived out in the country for years and grew a lot of our own food/raised our own beef so were eating pretty well. So im not sure if diet would make a difference. Plus, my dad- he was pretty much a beach bum the majority of his life and he was a vegan for years and only ate raw foods- granted he also smoked a lot of pot. :p He also died of colon cancer, which you wouldn’t expect. He did eventually eat fish and eggs and milk but still. He wasnt really a driven or motivated to succeed kind of guy. I think a lot of that boils down to personality.

  100.  #100Kim on August 19, 2015 at 2:23 pm

    …having said all that, if he lacks masculine energy, dump him..lol.

  101.  #101April Rose on August 19, 2015 at 2:36 pm


    I just read your lovely, long comment to me (95) and it felt so caring and wonderful to read and the part about the broccoli made me laugh out loud, and I’m still giggling.

    Your sentiments are a variation on the theme “Nobody’s perfect” which when I hear it (usually when I am opening up to family about why a guy doesn’t feel like my ‘one’) makes my head go woolly and my heart feel sad. Only because perhaps I am the only one who appreciates HOW MUCH I give people a chance and give them the benefit of the doubt, and how much I have hoped that we would FIT and kept my head under the blanket for too long when we DO NOT FIT.

    I should perhaps have also mentioned other deal breakers like putting the phone down on me if I have a reaction to a trigger. And walking away from me (and going home and not contacting me until the next day) when I challenged his wishy washy ways.

    I too, like you, would advise a woman to look at the important things. I too, believe a woman can inspire a man to step up and change.
    I sadly said to him the other day “I haven’t been able to inspire you”.

    The poor diet is just one feature of an overall ‘low-level’ way of living. Maybe that is the mirror for areas of my life where I am living at a low level.

    I met a guy on a course last month, who has become my benchmark and standard for the kind of man I would accept as my husband.

    He is alive, dynamic, aware, passionate about all aspects of his life, and especially about his woman. He wrote about her recently on facebook “She is a force. She is my love. She is a stunning presence.”

    Wow! Come on ladies. There are such men on this planet. And that feels wonderful to know.

  102.  #102April Rose on August 19, 2015 at 2:39 pm

    TG passively aggressively hangs onto his cheapo ways of eating and his scruffy dress sense.

    He is determined to be accepted the way he is.

    Fine, I can accept him as a friend that way. But I don’t feel at ease and luscious in a romantic way. I am going to tell him this, if he insists on having a talk.

  103.  #103Kim on August 19, 2015 at 2:43 pm

    April Rose, oh yeah, I understand….no big dealbreakers but lots of little annoying ones that make one feel unloving towards a man like that. Putting phone down? That feels totally bad and unacceptable to me!
    Ok, I understand, basically not really a great guy, so every little thing he does contributes to that fact.
    I wouldn’t date him either….nope thank you.

  104.  #104April Rose on August 19, 2015 at 2:53 pm

    Yeah, and I always remember what Rori said to me on a teleclass call.
    I had asked the question “If we work the tools and become open and receptive, wouldn’t ANY man be a match for us?”
    Rori’s answer was No! There are certain things he has to be able to do, and the one that sticks in my memory is “he has to be able to tolerate a certain amount of discomfort”.
    This guy starts huffing and sulking and saying how miserable he feels, anytime I am not wide open-hearted and full of smiles for him.

  105.  #105April Rose on August 19, 2015 at 3:30 pm

    I have spent too much of my adult life not being practical about finding the right partner.

    The simple practicalities of dating are becoming clearer.

    It is all about practice. And being light easy breezy and taking the happy feeling options.

  106.  #106Liquid Light on August 19, 2015 at 5:04 pm

    I guess I’m one of those women that wants to be with someone who is successful, dresses well, and eats healthy. Oh yeah and is reasonably fit. Its nothing that also don’t strive for so don’t feel like I’m being unreasonable. But then I again I’m still single after 2.5 years.

    On the other hand, if we don’t have standards and high expectations for ourselves, I think its far less likely that we would find someone with those qualities.

    Just my 2 cents. (yikes! i’m probably going to be dodging a lot of virtual tomatoes now 😉

  107.  #107Kim on August 19, 2015 at 6:24 pm

    Liquid Light, you know it depends, because I see sometimes those standards are a bit skewed when it comes to women and men seeing themselves realistically. You would be surprised how many men and women I know who have been single for years, hoping to find that perfect man/woman with the perfect body, perfect health and healthy eating (even preference as to vegetarian or vegan)…oh yeah and rich/successful they should be too…but then they are themselves none of the above, or not quite. This always amuses me a little.
    That’s part of our culture nowadays. We place a lot of emphasis on the superficial but sometimes forget that we are not perfect either, and I include myself in that.
    That perfectly dressed and successful broccoli eating man – if he even exists, may have other qualities that do not suit.
    It’s good to have standards, of course, I nowadays prefer mine to rest more in the ‘loves me’, ‘cherishes me’, ‘attracts me’, ‘does not cheat’ categories than what type of shirt a man wears.
    Not saying these are mutually exclusive of course, but I think our expectations these days, on both sides, are going in the type of airbrushed nonexistent Hollywood star direction…often are to be held accountable for the fact that there are so many singles out there, keeping their options open, hoping for the perfect partner.
    It’s just not realistic. The perfect man does not exist, there is always give and take, we can decide what our priorities are.

  108.  #108Kim on August 19, 2015 at 6:28 pm

    Nobody has mentioned intelligence in a man either, which is probably one of the biggest turn-ons. At least for a lot of women, including me. Dress sense and vegetable consumption is more important…lol. Those things can be learnt and/or changed.
    Fixing stupid or cheating or lying, however – good luck lol

  109.  #109Femininewoman on August 19, 2015 at 7:46 pm

    “While I can underestand all this, being a healthy eater etc., I also feel like this is setting a barrier for intimacy with a man who might just come around…men DO change if they want to…and especially for their woman.”

    From what I have read Carol Allen’s husband changed her to eat a bit different. She suggests it depends on how the energy flows between the two.

  110.  #110Dixie on August 19, 2015 at 8:10 pm

    Just tossing two coins into this discussion:

    When I started dating my ex-husband, (donkey’s years ago) he was in really good shape and that really did motivate me to do the same.

    By the time we got married, he had put on quite a bit of weight. Although I didn’t notice at the time, he said he was his heaviest at the time of the wedding.

    During married life, Sirens, I felt SO worried about his weight because it kept increasing. Of course, I loved him and still wanted to be intimate with him, but my worry over his health and his own “perceived” ambivalence about his health caused so much tension.

    It was NOT the cause of the divorce, (there was much infidelity and then paternity on his part) BUT I do think that my constant vocalizing of my concerns about his health did NOT make him feel good.

    Is it a dealbreaker? Not for me, but I do want to be with someone who values their own health. That’s important because I felt so, so scared that he would have a heart attack in his 30s.

    But would I nag again? No, I would take the Rori tool of just appreciating everything he DOES do, and then turn my focus on keeping MYSELF healthy and happy.

  111.  #111Dixie on August 19, 2015 at 8:13 pm


    “It’s good to have standards, of course, I nowadays prefer mine to rest more in the ‘loves me’, ‘cherishes me’, ‘attracts me’, ‘does not cheat’ categories than what type of shirt a man wears.”


  112.  #112Mandy on August 19, 2015 at 8:38 pm

    The only thing I’ve known for the longest time is wanting more…All I can see is walls around me…I feel as though…I feel so forlorn, so sad, so left out of the world, so locked up and hidden away, in this apartment, on this side of town, with J.

    I find myself wanting what ValentineCD has to offer me…there’s a genuine interest in what’s going on inside me there, he often tells me he’s right there for me for anything. I don’t often hear that. In truth I’d give my left arm to talk to him right now, it would be so soothing, but I can’t depend on a person to soothe me, I have to learn to depend on me. He’s also got the mother of his child trying to make it as hard as possible for us to hang out because I guess she’s in love with him, even though they are not together, but they are roommates. That’s making me upset a little, I could really use a talk with him, even if it was just a little joke or a hey, buck up, sweetie.

    The only thing I feel I can do at this particular moment is ride the emotional wave, to sit in my feelings, instead of trying to get away from them.

    Why do I feel so trapped and left out? I feel like I have my own overbearing parents and then J the overbearing weird boyfriend and then…well, if it weren’t for those two things and my crap financial situation I’d have a hell of a lot more freedom and happiness. I also don’t have transportation, and the buses are striking this week, and so I feel very helpless, lonely, depressed and just down and out.

    Why are my feelings picking out that one CD to miss? Did it feel that soothing to be around him? Something is definitely different about him. I am used to being around men who are somewhat gruff and harsh, kind of mean at times…this one is none of those things…he’s just so kind and sweet and warm, and empathetic, not like aloof and cold like J.

    Can your tastes change, so when you experience a personality trait in a good way you start to like it a lot? Before, I wouldn’t have given him the time of day because he’s younger than I am, and into some things I’m not into, but wow, he’s pretty amazing. It’s like ah crap there I go again being all amazed by a guy…I feel so silly whenever I start to talk about any one guy.

    I feel good getting the attention but I still also have that thing where I get it in my head he doesn’t want to see me or talk to me or something, and that is totally me sometimes. It’s like ah, crap. I wish I could just relax.

    Ah. I feel so weird. Feels sooooo weird. The mental anguish is nuts. The boredom is worse. If I had a bus ride I’d be outta here in a second, but then, the 115 degree weather doesn’t help either.

    Just having a really hard time mentally and emotionally here. And I’m not sure exactly what’s bugging me. I think it’s just everything at once. It’s Not being able to do anything at all, see my CDs, tell J what is going on, drive anywhere, leave the apartment.

    Ah. This too shall pass…arrrgh…

  113.  #113Lovergirl on August 19, 2015 at 10:34 pm

    My ex husband was/is a good looking guy. He has six pack abs and when we first started dating he was into bodybuilding and working out all the time. Even in times he didnt he still had a good physique, naturally.

    In any case, it really didnt mean he was a motivated person. Instead, he is more feminine natured, caring so much about his looks that that is what he spends his time on rather than more masculine pursuits.

    I like guys that work out and eat well and are in good shape, but not to the point where they are obsessive. I find THAT to be a turnoff! I have a pet peeve of dating guys that are on diets. I guess it reminds me.of my ex abd how when we were going through our divorce he was on this super protein kick where he ate 24 eggs a day. It was so gross and he would only eat the whites. My poor dog still doesnt like egg yolks, she got sick of them too. :p

    The boring guy is weight obsessed because he runs in track meets and it drives me nuts. He wont eat carbs except his wings every friday. He expects me to eat the same way when im there. Bleah…

    Id take S and his slightly chubby self over either of them anyday. Too bad he doesnt want me.

    I went out tonight to a movie with a guy. it was our 2nd date. No sex, but we got close, in the back seat of his truck. Im on my period, so didnt go there. In any case, I still have this gut feeling he is married.His excuse for not taking me to his place is that his teenage daughter lives at home, but im not sure I buy it.

  114.  #114Femininewoman on August 20, 2015 at 4:24 am

    Lovergirl why would you want to go to his house on a second date anyway? Have you thought about raising the bar to improve the quality of men you date? Also isn’t safety a concern for you?

  115.  #115Zara on August 20, 2015 at 5:12 am

    Copy_pasted from Rori’s blog:Communication Crisis – So You Want To Change Your Man?

    He’s overweight. He doesn’t eat right. His hygiene isn’t perfect. His teeth could use a cleaning. His skin could use some cleanser and over-the-counter-acne-formulation. His breath needs help. What do you do? How do you tell him without making him feel bad?

    When I read this letter from Andie, I realized what a problem this can be: Here we are, trying to break our old patterns of being attracted to a man just because of the way he looks, and giving a really good man a chance to grow on us, and, Yes, his charm and devotion DOES win us over…but he could still use a little (maybe even a lot) of help to make him more attractive to us on the physical level.

    The truth is, what do you do when he needs an “extreme makeover”?

    Here’s Andie’s letter:
    “Hi Rori,
    I just want to know what I can do about a guy who has too much facial hair that I do not like – also bad skin. We started dating a month ago, I was never much attracted to him but his charm won me and he is besotted by me.
    Looks-wise, though, he is not all there. If he could just get his facial hair (very thick mono brows, beard ) groomed, and his skin cleared up, he’d be fine. We look so odd together that people are surprised – they don’t know what I see in him!
    What can I do? I tried to hint but he was very abrupt and I knew I’d better not say anything. Unfortunately, each time I look at him I think if only he took care of his face. Please can you tell me what I could do? Many thanks, Andie”

    Here’s my answer:
    Okay – we ALL want to change our man. We want to build on his “potential” and “make him over” – because there’s always something we don’t like about him. And what we have to know is that we can’t. We can’t make him over for life.

    Andie’s man will always not care about his appearance. He may clean himself up for Andie, if she asks in the right way, but what will happen 5 years from now if they marry? Is she going to hound him into getting his hair groomed and keeping his skin clear with a simple, over-the-counter acne formulation? For life? In order for that to happen, he’d pretty much need to sign an agreement.

    And the problem here is – Andie doesn’t really want him “as is.” And all men want to be wanted “as is.” (We do, too!)

    So Andie’s choices are these:

    1. Don’t mention it, and love him the way he is (which she can’t do, as she makes clear in her letter).

    2. Don’t mention it and resent him for the rest of their lives together.

    3. Talk to him about it and see if there’s a solution they can negotiate together.

    4. Break up with him because the whole issue of his looks is a dealbreaker.

    Number 3 is not so easy, because it requires his cooperation. But in my book, it’s the only place to go.

    The only thing is, Andie needs to know that even if she gets some satisfactory solution in the negotiation – it may not last forever. And then what? Then she needs to know how she feels about option #4.

    So, Andie – first figure out if you want to break up with him if he can’t turn himself around. Look – if his looks bother you, then they bother you. I’ve had women tell me about hygiene issues – no brushing of teeth, no bathing – and to me, I just couldn’t handle that. It would be a dealbreaker. So, you need to know if his looks, if they never change, would be a dealbreaker for you.

    Next, write up some ways to talk to him. Here’s a starter for you:
    Serious relationship and marriage requires being able to talk to each other – about anything. Anything that has to do with the way you FEEL about him. And in this case, Andie’s man is about to lose her just because he doesn’t know exactly what she wants him to do, and so he feels she doesn’t approve of HIM.

    Your conversation could go like this:
    “Honey, I have something on my mind, I feel very awkward bringing this up, and yet I know I have to – is this a good moment to talk?”

    If he agrees to listen, then you say, “You know that you’ve completely won me over. I’m totally charmed by you and your devotion to me, I love you madly, and it feels incredible being with you. I think you’re the greatest guy ever, and I have a serious concern, where we may not be compatible, and I want to know what you think, and if we can come up with a solution. There’s something that’s really important to me, and it’s not so important to you, so I guess I’m just going to have to ask if it’s something you can make important to you just because it’s important to me, and that’s about the way you take care of the way you look.

    “I want you to know it’s not the way you look, I love the way you look, but I don’t like the way you take care of your looks. So I’d like to make it clear exactly what I’d like you to do for me. This is what I want…”

    And you hold up the number of a Salon for men you’ve researched and found. “I want this really good salon for men to do your hair, your beard, and your eyebrows, too. Will you go for me? Here’s the card of the place I found.”

    He grumbles, but he says “Okay.” Or “I’ll think about it.”

    You say, “And I got you this bottle of Pro-Active (or your drugstore’s brand of acne solution) for your acne. I know lots of men who use it and it works. I think it’s important that I look my best and most attractive for you – and I’m open to hearing anything you’d like me to do that would make things more wonderful for you – and I’d like to feel free to ask you for the same thing.
    “You are so lovely, and I care for you so much, I want us to be able to talk about anything. I’d feel incredible if you’d do these things for me. Actually, I feel amazing just because you heard me.”

    And then you leave the Pro-Active on the bathroom counter, you leave the number for the men’s salon right under it, and you don’t mention it again.
    You treat him as if he’s made the appointment and using the acne cleanser. You love him even more for listening to you

    If he doesn’t do it, then you need to talk again, and this time, you might have to decide if it’s a dealbreaker, or if you can handle having this discussion over and over and over again as long as you’re together. But start here.

    Let me know how this works.

    Love, Rori


  116.  #116Zara on August 20, 2015 at 5:16 am

    Copy-pasted from Rori’s blog: Rori Raye’s Rules For Landing The Perfect Man

    What IS a perfect man, anyway?

    If you believe you’ve ever had one, or have one in your mind, take out a piece of paper and write down the “qualities” you think made him “perfect” or WILL make him “perfect.”

    Now take a look at your list. Maybe you’ve written down things like “attractive (or even handsome), financially secure, sensitive, likes animals, generous…”

    Well, my Rules are this (actually – it’s just one Rule to start):
    It doesn’t matter what you’ve written on the list, or how good he looks on paper, or even how good he looks in real life. His qualities DON’T MATTER.

    The only thing that matters is this entry on your list: “When I’m with him, and even when I’m NOT with him – I feel loved, cared for, happy and secure. “ That’s it.

    Who he is and How he is mean nothing.

    How you FEEL with a man is ALL that counts.

    And I don’t mean how you feel about HIM. I don’t mean how much YOU love HIM, or how excited you feel, or how much “chemistry” there is, or how much “fun” you have together, or how great sex is, or how much you have “in common.” None of that means ANYTHING.

    We’re often devastatingly attracted to men who are emotionally unavailable or not mature enough to truly be in a committed, real relationship, and then end up literally devastated.

    The only thing that means anything is how you feel about YOURSELF in his presence.

    So take out your piece of paper and turn it over. Now write a list of how you want to FEEL about YOURSELF in your “perfect” RELATIONSHIP! (Remember – this is about the Relationship, not about the man.)

    Let me know how it feels to look at relationship this way, and we’ll talk more and more about how all this works.

    Rori Raye

  117.  #117Zara on August 20, 2015 at 5:25 am

    Copy-pasted from Rori,s blog: Good Guys And High Quality Guys – Are They The Same?

    Here’s a letter from Bethany, with a problem I hear all the time from nearly every woman I work with:

    “Dear Rori,
    After I thought about things, I felt better. But then he tracked me down and wanted to see if I wanted to go to a concert that night with him and his friend, and I said yes because I thought why not, I want to really examine how I feel about myself when I’m with him…terrible, actually.
    He didn’t pay for me, okay, it was a $15 ticket, but then bought himself $3 beers and didn’t offer to get me one…and would put his hand on my back occasionally but didn’t kiss me, and then wanted me to sleep over!
    I said no and he drove me home, then today I ran into him on his bike and he asked me what I’m doing tonight and I said I’m meeting with this guy whose novel I’m editing (John, a friend of his) at 8 pm, then he said he would probably just be hanging out at home.
    Then he said, “Well, tell John I said hi…” I said “okay,” and he left. Then I felt like crying. I don’t know why.
    This guy must be a huge loser.

    So why do I let him make me feel so bad? He obviously doesn’t want me anymore, and that makes me feel awful…just awful.

    I wish I could feel that there are better things out there for me, I just have 6 weeks of boring, miserable small town life before I can get away and into the big pond of a bigger city…

    Rori, are there guys out there who are fun and exciting and attractive who also won’t make me feel like crap?
    I want to believe that but I’ve only ever known the losers I meet in this tiny state…who I somehow pull in.

    I want to believe but I just haven’t ever known anything else. And I’m so angry and hurt that he’s pulling away from me and treating me like I’m second class. So hurt. I’m trying to feel my way through it but I’m at work right now and can’t afford to break down crying. Why does he act like he doesn’t care? I don’t understand… Bethany”

    My Answer:
    I want to help Bethany here with PERSPECTIVE, and just offer her a different view of the situation that can help her to FEEL BETTER.

    And remember – that’s always our number one priority – to help ourselves to FEEL BETTER – moment by moment, so that we can lift ourselves up PERMANENTLY to a much happier place.

    And then, of course, we attract a much better man…and it just gets better and better from there:

    So – here’s my answer:

    Bethany – Sometimes the universe is helping you get away from someone like him.

    Your background is pulling you toward men who can’t do the job – but the Universe is pulling you AWAY!!!!

    Look at it like that! The Universe is HELPING you.

    There are men around you RIGHT NOW who would KILL to kiss you.

    This guy is totally not even in consideration for a suitor, much less a serious suitor.
    A suitor NEVER stops trying and working to make you HAPPY.
    That is your standard.

    You’ve been living in a small pond. You don’t know what’s out there.

    What you want is a good man who’s happy enough in his life and work.
    He doesn’t have to be RICH – just stable, emotionally and financially – and be AFFECTIONATE.
    Affection (not neediness) goes a LONG WAY with us women.

    You’re looking for the guy who invented Facebook – something really cool – the guy who’s going to save the world.

    Keep your standards high for how a man treats you – not for his standing in the world.

    … and keep: receiving affection and good feelings at the very top of the list.

    Just use this time to detach from the old stuff and look toward the new stuff.
    Explore the small pond and see if you can start to differentiate between good guys, and guys who aren’t high enough quality.

    And explore the bigger pond: Putting yourself on Match.com, OKCupid and all the other sites large and small for the larger cities and other cities near you will give you a whole new source of men to Circular Date with and see if the important qualities of men who find YOU there get better and better.
    ((I know there are many arguments around this…and, as always…I choose to look at the statistics that FEEL GOOD (and there are MANY)…and to look at the REAL results so many of my clients get when they shift their inner argument about the possibilities and find themselves unexpectedly in the arms of good men….))

    That’s what Circular Dating is for! To explore your world and explore yourself – out there IN the world!
    Love, Rori

  118.  #118Zara on August 20, 2015 at 5:38 am

    Copy-pasted from Rori Raye blog: If You’re Attracting Low-Quality Men – Try This

    FIRST – it’s important that you know we are all DIFFERENT.

    Our personalities are totally different, our values are different, our deep-down themes are different.

    I love the “Enneagram,” which categorizes personalities in a terrific way, and the Myers-Briggs personality tests that counselors use to help people find the professions and jobs that most suit them and most interest them.

    What they all show is that you can really see if a person’s “themes” – the way they act those out in the world, is to retreat from life because of fear, to behave dangerously because of fear, to want to joyfully try everything, to be focused on serving others, etc. – all kinds of ways to categorize behavior, based on what’s most IMPORTANT to a person.

    And…there are a lot of inner reasons why one thing (let’s say loyalty, or security, or making peace, or anger) would be more important to one woman than to another. Why those inner driving forces would “run” one woman and not another.

    So – my Tools are to help you follow the Rori Raye Mantra no matter WHAT your particular, unique inner driving forces are.

    In the posts on Power & Self-Esteem, we’ve been working on line 2 of the Mantra – “Follow Your Feelings” – and you’re all getting SO good at it!
    Now I see we need to get a clearer picture of how to Trust Your Boundaries and Choose Your Words – so that you don’t feel like your feelings are out-of-control and you find yourself acting on every impulse.

    So – let’s start with Alias Girl’s comment – in this comment you talk about being too picky, and wonder..”…I mean I seem to have become a man magnet but how do I raise the quality of these men? what about ME is attracting low quality men? am I low quality and just unaware of it and these men are reflecting that back to me? what tool can I use to attract my dream man?”

    Here’s what’s happening. You’re allowing all kinds of men to get into your space – which is WONDERFUL.
    This is totally the first step you need to take.

    Here’s what’s missing, and where we’ll go next:
    ==> 1. What you don’t FEEL yet – is that you have a CHOICE – and you DO!

    strong>==> 2. The men you are attracting are not necessarily “low-quality” men. As you learn to SPEAK to them “I really felt icky when you said…” “I feel very sensitive. “Kindness and compassion and generosity are very important qualities for me in a man, and I don’t feel comfortable with being judged or hearing that kind of stuff…”

    Do you see how you’re still thinking about “What do I DO?” – and we still need to focus on “What do I FEEL?” – and then practice saying that out loud to a man.

    That’s what all these men are showing up for – for you to PRACTICE on. It’s much easier to learn when you practice on men you’re NOT hugely attracted to, so that when the really great guys come along it’s almost automatic for you.

    I mean – we’re moving fast – but to really get this all down you have to practice. And that’s why these men are showing up – to SHAKE YOU UP!!! In a GOOD way!

    ==> 3. You are attracting (and attracted to) men who are not the quality you want for lifelong commitment not because YOU are low-quality. It’s because you BELIEVE (somewhere deep inside) that you are low-quality, and that this kind of man is all you deserve.

    That’s what we’re working on. To get you so loving yourself, so appreciating yourself that you whip around those old, deep, hard to get to beliefs about yourself.

    So – Alias Girl – This is your focus – to get how this works. I want you to love and appreciate yourself – and then I want you to love and appreciate the fact that WHATEVER man has shown up for you to practice with, and I want you to FIND OUT, just by intuiting, and being, and receiving, what the MESSAGE is that he’s bringing. Find out what’s interesting about him. Find out why he showed up in your life, just by following your feelings.

    Sometimes the message is: “I don’t have to do this again…”

  119.  #119Azure Blu on August 20, 2015 at 6:58 am

    Thank you for finding all these messages from Rori…
    I find them soooo helpful!!

  120.  #120Azure Blu on August 20, 2015 at 7:01 am

    I’m with you… Intelligence in a man is a BIG turn on for me!!!

  121.  #121Azure Blu on August 20, 2015 at 7:07 am

    my boyfriend before Spirit – BK- dated for 2 years…
    When we first met he was in really good shape..
    had a little belly but big strong arms… YUMMIE
    I had not been with a man that was in that good shape…
    he was a Glassier- worked with big sheets of glass installing them into buildings so he had to be strong…
    I always complimented him on how strong he was and I was working out and eating right also…
    by the time i broke up with him he was drinking too much, let himself go and he had gained over 70 lbs… he not only was treating me poorly,
    he was looking ugly…
    it made it MUCH easier to let him go!!!
    thank goodness!!! ;0 }

  122.  #122Azure Blu on August 20, 2015 at 7:31 am

    I haven’t heard from Spirit for 4 days… we havn’t seen each other in 2 weeks…
    I am NOT contacting him…
    he text me last Friday…
    We talked on the phone a little…
    and then last night he text me around 11:30 pm
    I went to bed early so just saw the text this morning…
    He actually said… “I haven’t heard from you in awhile. What is going on…?” That feels good!
    A NORMAL question!!! He always text these half as*ed

    However, I am feeling angry!!!
    the last time I asked HIM “I’m feeling confused…what is going on… can you help me understand?… ”
    he ignored me for 10 days!!!!!!@@%^&*
    and then went out with an old girlfriend of his!
    that was when we broke up 2 months ago…

    Here we are at our 2 months mark again (2 months seeing each other)
    I’m going to see if I can keep this going without breaking it off…
    No reason to… It will only make ME panic
    I am NOT letting him come between me
    and dating other men!
    my life is feeling good right now!

    I have a script ready for what I want to say:
    “I always feel excited to hear from you!
    I feel sad that E. was in the hospital…
    I know that is so difficult for you and your family.

    It makes me feel important to you and close to you
    that you asked me “What is going on.”

    I would love to share that with you…
    Call me when you have time to talk.”

    Sirens, What do you think about this script!?

  123.  #123Sami Wunder on August 20, 2015 at 8:21 am

    Lovely Azure – Little tweaks –

    1) Hey. Feels good to hear from you. I would tone down the excitement 😉

    2) Share something FROM YOUR DAY that felt exciting to you … instead of sympathizing with him ( vibe lifting)

    3) No need to tell him you feel important when he texts you. You are important – today and tomorrow and always – his text is not needed to make you feel important. It´s still a great line but I´d reserve it for when a man does something greater, bigger for us.

    4) I wouldn´t ask him to call. This feels like pushing for connection. Let him go and call when he wants to call. That´s the way to keep making him return.

    Sending you love ! I have a feeling I´ve known you forever.

    Love, Sami

  124.  #124Lovergirl on August 20, 2015 at 8:47 am

    114 Femininewoman- By raising the bar do you mean not doing anything sexual or making out? I did that with the Chicago guy, waited till the 4th date and he ended up having terrible chemistry in bed. My experience with guys who are slower to have sex is that they tend to suck in bed. Thats kind of important to me, so im just unsure on the whole making him wait thing. Plus I feel kind of like a fake, pretending I dont want sex.

    I still usually do the traditional 3rd date unless its someone from the swinger site or something. I didnt ask this guy about going to his house but he made a comment about us both having kids at home when we were in his truck that implied we wouldn’t be going back to his place.

    I cant see him as someone serious. Hes been nice so far but he smokes and tastes like smoke and that bugs me. :p He is an it professional and pays for everything and sounds like an involved dad. Just not sure I could see him as anything long term.

    Not sure what you mean about safety- he doesn’t seem like he’s dangerous or anything and if we had sex I would ask him to wear a condom.

  125.  #125Indigo on August 20, 2015 at 8:55 am

    Azure Blu,

    I’m with Sami on this one.

    Especially what Sami says about asking him to call. From my own experience, this is a sure-fire sign that I am in masculine, pushing energy. Before I ask a man to contact me, I like to ask myself the reason why I am asking him that, and this is composed of two parts – first, am I asking him to call because I am feeling anxious, insecure or disconnected? Secondly, am I asking him to call because I want to discuss something “big” or “meaningful”? If the answer to either of those is yes, it is much better to just NOT DO IT. He can feel the energy in either of those scenarios and it feels needy or just not good.

    If on the other hand I just want to discuss something very quick and practical and light, I’ve found it’s perfectly ok to ask him to call.

    If I have something big and meaningful to discuss with him, I find it much better to wait until we see each other in person. In your case, I feel confused what you want to discuss with him because it doesn’t feel as if there is anything to discuss and I would encourage you to just keep putting your energy elsewhere!

    I’ve been there and I know how this feels 🙂

  126.  #126Indigo on August 20, 2015 at 9:01 am


    I think Feminine Woman was referring to going to his house on the second date when she talked about raising the bar (sorry FW for speaking about you in your absence). Quality guys will continue to take you out to places (not just to their house) for several dates at the beginning first, and this is one way to tell if he’s a good guy.

    Of course it is completely up to you when you sleep with a guy, and no one here will judge you for it, but just know that many men are simply looking for sex and nothing more (you have said you would like to find a man who wanted to make you his girlfriend or commit to you) and the only way to tell which is which is by making them wait a little longer for sex until you know what his plans are.

  127.  #127Kim on August 20, 2015 at 9:13 am

    Hi Azure! I love Sami’s reply to you!
    It’s funny how men can have such double standards but I have seen the same thing…if I don’t hear from them for a day/week, they have been busy or something and that is ok. If they don’t hear from me after, like, 10 minutes, they ask me what is wrong/where I am/why am I not answering.
    LOL. So funny!
    They suit themselves, so my conclusion is that we can do that too. Quite often in these situations, when I don’t know what to say, I reply with silence. At least for a while, until I figured out what/whether I want to say. That always seems to work.

    Personally, I don’t think I could do what you do Azure, dating Spirit. I don’t think I could trust him anymore with an ex gf in the picture. I am extremely sensitive in that regard…I am amazed that you can, without getting blamey etc. Wow!

    On that note, I am not really CDing but OMGosh, I bumped into tattoo man while holding hands with MoM in a local store!! Tattoo man was the guy I had crazy chemistry with and who introduced me to his parents and is now back with his ex. Lol.
    He looked so sad and confused when he saw me and we just exchanged a brief hello. MoM went to the restroom and tatto man started following me around the store for a while, thinking I wouldn’t notice! LOL!!

    For some reason I knew that wasn’t the end of it, an hour later he sent me a message on fb (we are NOT friends on fb), we have not spoken in ONE YEAR. Basically just stating what a chance encounter it was and wishing me a great weekend. Small talk and smiley faces..
    I was flabberghasted. I did not think I would hear from him again. I got shaky legs! Whoa.
    A while later, I just replied ‘thank you, you too’ more or less…he said ‘thanks’ and that was the end of that!

    I have so many questions…but decided that they don’t need to be asked. No. I know from friends that he is not happy but it’s none of my business!

    Onwards and upwards 🙂

  128.  #128Dominique on August 20, 2015 at 9:55 am

    AzureBlu – 122 – I feel curious why you would script saying you feel excited hearing from him when you actually feel pissed.

    Instead answer his question. What IS going on with you. It can be good feeling or not. At this point with him, it doesn’t matter. The more real you can be with this man after all you’ve been through with him, the better.

    And when I say this, I don’t mean let loose on him. Yet you could speak your truth calmly. And make it all about you. Not what he has or has not done, said or did not say.

    Or you could simply keep it simple, and relate a small story, something which warmed your heart.


  129.  #129Lovergirl on August 20, 2015 at 9:58 am

    I didn’t go to his house, or mention it. He took me out to eat, for drinks and to a movie at a dinner theater. Then we made out in the back of his truck in the parking garage, but didn’t have sex. It was then that he made some comment about us not being able to go to each other’s houses because we both have kids at home.

  130.  #130April Rose on August 20, 2015 at 10:45 am

    Zara, thank you for the postings.

  131.  #131Azure Blu on August 20, 2015 at 10:50 am

    Sami Wonder and Indigo
    Thank you much for your feedback
    It is VERY helpful
    didn’t even mention it was good to hear from him…
    I’m actually tired of saying that!!!
    I did share 2 exciting heart proud
    accomplishments that happened this week!
    and I didn’t mention about calling me – no pushing for connection – :-))
    ~ cause, yes, i was going to share why he hadn’t heard from me~ after a year of dating~ I still havn’t been to his house or met his family!!!!
    But he must know by now…
    So NO reason to bring it up!

    He sent me a selfie of him in surgery!! cute
    Me Keeping it light
    and noncomital feels good
    That’s what he is doing anyway!

    Love you guys!!!

  132.  #132April Rose on August 20, 2015 at 10:51 am

    I have been ruminating on what we have been discussing here, and I’ve been feeling somewhat frustrated.
    The picture I get from what you say, is that there are only two types of men – those that eat broccoli and cheat, and those who don’t cheat but eat junk!

    Joking aside, I really do get annoyed with the either/or scenario.

    It’s a spectrum: At one end are the men who eat broccoli AND cheat, and at the other end are the great men who eat well and DO NOT cheat!!!

    My entire quest at this time rests on identifying GREAT MEN.
    I have known them, yet it seems so long ago.

    I have never been one to go for superficial qualities (I’m sounding defensive now and feeling cross with myself for getting explainy).

    There is something deeper here relating to the food issue. You can tell a lot about how a man takes care of women by the way he looks after himself.

  133.  #133April Rose on August 20, 2015 at 10:52 am

    I believe a masculine man puts more energy into caring for his woman that he puts into himself.

  134.  #134April Rose on August 20, 2015 at 10:53 am

    Oh gosh, I feel so frustrated.

    I feel myself whirling around and around the true essence of what I’m feeling and knowing deep down.

    My words keep missing the mark. Aaargh!

  135.  #135Azure Blu on August 20, 2015 at 11:01 am

    I feel so good reading your comments \ thank you.
    Yes, I did keep it simple…
    So lucky I have you all hear to help me
    take good, protective care of *ME*!!!

    My proud moment was: I am the committee chair of the Merchandise Committee for one of the most prestigious Art Fairs in the country…
    At the after Art Fair party last night it was announced
    We made more money than in the history of the Merchandise Store!!!
    YAY ME!!!

  136.  #136Azure Blu on August 20, 2015 at 11:02 am

    P.S. and my committee of course…
    It Does take a TEAM!!!

  137.  #137Kim on August 20, 2015 at 11:07 am

    April Rose – your post made me laugh out loud!
    I really was joking by saying that a broccoli eating man might be a cheater – pls don’t diss all broccoli eating men LOL.
    I was simply implying, pls see above Rori post, which I think is dead on..that some things may be more important.
    I am sure there are men that fulfil our highest standards and our most important criteria for a man…BUT nobody is perfect. And to be a little open minded when dating, that is all.
    You might be surprised…
    A lot of men are a little careless about diet and housekeeping and all that when they are single..I know my man, for example, although he did not eat badly, is eating a whole lot healthier now that he is with me. I also know of a few women who, despite having had reservations about a man’s clothes/appearance/hair and other habits, after dating them a while and having found a fantastic partner for their heart, those issues completely resolved themselves…the man took the initiative to ‘become a better man’.
    Isn’t that what it’s all about? Growing and changing, for us too? We are not perfect either.
    I know some things I do drive my man insane…he is much more methodical and organized than me. I feel grateful that bar the odd joking dig, he accepts that part of me as is.
    As Rori says the important thing is how we feel when with them and not with them. I agree with that.
    I am sure plentyy of women disagree with that and that’s cool…

  138.  #138Kim on August 20, 2015 at 11:10 am

    135 Azure Blu wow! That is so interesting…I would love to hear more even though not really part of this blog, so: oh well.
    I got really into art and making jewelry…so always looking for inspiration and new ideas..
    Go you!

  139.  #139Azure Blu on August 20, 2015 at 11:26 am

    the merchandise Committee actually
    sets up a booth in the art fair for selling
    Our Fair merchandise…
    Tshirts, mugs, umbrellas, scarfs, magnets,
    hats etc. with our logo – art from a specific artist
    chosen each year depicting a scene from our town and the year and the name of the fair.

    We host The actual artists – over 400 – for our fair..
    there are 4 fairs that go on during the same time in my city… so there are probably over 2,000 artist at this fair…
    They are the ones who create and sell the jewelry, pottery, sculptures, paintings etc.
    does that make sense?

  140.  #140Azure Blu on August 20, 2015 at 11:35 am

    April Rose #134
    I do understand what you are saying…
    I dated a man last year who made me feel, safe,
    I knew he would never cheat on me
    He was a dedicated family man, good with money, generous -took me out often
    we did interesting things…
    he asked for exclusivity and so I did…
    We never had se*
    BUT I kept waiting for him to get some energy,
    some joy for life… some laughter…
    It was always soooo dead pan
    I don’t know… hard to pin point BUT
    I Knew he wasn’t my Mr. Right!!!

  141.  #141April Rose on August 20, 2015 at 11:46 am

    I wish I could let this go…

    I wish to go on record as never having implied that whether or not a man eats broccoli is the most important thing about him.

    I realise now I may not have set a context for what I wanted to convey. Hence the point being missed.

    I totally get that the criteria for measuring the relationship is my feeling of ‘safe, happy, loved and secure’.

    I can get by on knowing I am loved (even if it isn’t gushingly expressed or shown – although I love that), and I can always find a kind of ‘happy’ with a man.


    These last two …. I have to say I do not have experience of feeling these things with men in the last fifteen years of my dating life.

  142.  #142April Rose on August 20, 2015 at 11:54 am


    I’m curious about a couple of things –

    Why did you never have sex with him?
    And why on earth did you agree to exclusivity?

  143.  #143Femininewoman on August 20, 2015 at 12:03 pm

    Thanks for explaining for me Indigo

  144.  #144Kim on August 20, 2015 at 12:14 pm

    139 that sounds cool Azure! Wish I could have been there!

  145.  #145Kim on August 20, 2015 at 12:20 pm

    Yes, I am sure a lot of factors come into finding the right man fkr us in addition to feeling loved, secure, safe and cherished. For a start, there has to be a little spark.
    I have dated so many guys that were lovely but…didn’t do it for me.
    I have to say that mostly, with the guys that had a certain level of intellect and lifestyle matching mine ( generally I did a great job at weeding out before meeting), the issue of laziness/bad diet/bad personal hygiene or bad dress were never really a problem…but I am not crazy judgmental in that respect. I live and let live to a degree.
    My guy once surprised me with an awful shirt when we were invited to a snazzy party. It was about 20 years old…lol..his best shirt for 20 years I guess.
    I didn’t say anything. A year later or so, I looked at the pictures with him and he said ‘I don’t know about this shirt’ and I just replied ‘donation material’.
    He took it with humor, as did I when he was wearing it.
    These scenarios have a tendency to bring us closer together, I believe, if we let them 🙂

  146.  #146Azure Blu on August 20, 2015 at 12:24 pm

    April Rose…
    I agreed to exclusivity because we had dated for 2 months…
    I broke it off because he still seemed depressed from loosing his wife 3 years before…
    and then a year later he contacted me so i thought maybe he was feeling better?
    I felt if we had exclusivity he might relax and feel more at ease… and I do like to be exclusive after 2 months if I’m still liking the guy… that way the emotional connection can progress to the next level…

  147.  #147Azure Blu on August 20, 2015 at 12:35 pm

    You can be here as an artist or just to visit… It takes place every July (dates vary) this will be our 58th year
    there are forms to fill out and you need to submit your booth layout and photos of your work…
    Have you sold your art in other art fairs…
    I have attended one in West Palm Beach… it was very nice!

  148.  #148Azure Blu on August 20, 2015 at 12:39 pm

    April Rose…
    Ohhh… and we didn’t have s*x
    ’cause i just never felt excited enough by him…
    He was VERY frustrated about that…
    so was I… :0 |
    As Kim says there was never a spark with him…
    I never regret letting him go…
    What I thought was depression from loosing his wife
    was probably just his personality… UGGHHHH@@

  149.  #149Kim on August 20, 2015 at 1:16 pm

    Thanks Azure, yes I have been researching those fairs…not an option while I am car-less, however….another reason to sort my life out now! 😉

  150.  #150Azure Blu on August 20, 2015 at 1:32 pm

    Kim #127
    I just now read your feedback on texting Spirit!!
    Thank you!
    I do know what you mean about still seeing Spirit…

    But everytime I think about cutting it off…
    I get a panic feeling… I don’t want that for ME…
    I believe I am making a MAJOR shift in what
    I deeep, deeeep down heart felt believe
    is what *I* deserve..
    and I am being VERY soft, and careful with all of this…
    As Indigo said… it is my innocent heart that needs my tender, warm love…
    I have been VERY harsh with her, and I know
    when she is ready… she will stand up
    and say STOP and mean it once and for all!!!
    I’ve done it before…

    Thank you for your loving kindness!

  151.  #151Azure Blu on August 20, 2015 at 1:35 pm

    WOW!!! so interesting about Tatoo man!!
    It’s been a year already???!!!
    Yay you for figuring out his crazy, lieing heart!!!

    I’m glad he saw you happy and with MoM!!!
    I totally remember that story! :-))

  152.  #152Kim on August 20, 2015 at 1:39 pm

    Ha! Yes, Azure, imagine my shock when I saw him….lol.
    Cool that you remember!

  153.  #153Millie on August 20, 2015 at 1:43 pm

    So I felt really icky last night… By a comment Mechanic made. We were at a party and he asked if I would give him a ride home. He lives close to me. I said sure but I guess took the wrong route and he asked if I was taking him to my place. I alight and said no, why do you want to come over?? He said he would but it will have to be a secret since he is dating someone. In the moment I just said that I don’t want to lie nor do I want him to… But after I dropped him off I felt really bothered by the comment and texted him that I don’t want anything about our friendship to be a secret, because if he feels the need that it should be… Then it isn’t right and I don’t want that. I guess I glazed over the meat of the subject… Which is basically he is willing to sleep with me, but not date me. He wants to hide me from the outside world. That really hurt… And I feel like he lost integrity in my eyes as well as devalued our friendship. His response to my text was minimal, just a couple emoticons that seemed to convey “ok.” But I feel really bothered by it. I responded to that by saying I felt crappy about that conversation. So far no response. I guess, him being willing to do that makes me feel devalued as well… Like in public he is with her and in private he is willing to do all these things and not broadcast them. Apparently he talked me up so much to T, the guy he was trying to set me up with, and telling T he should date me for all these reasons… I just wanted to yell- well if I’m so great why don’t YOU date me! But… I don’t want that to be the question…. The question is why don’t I want to date him? And right now those reasons are many. The biggest thing is I want man with integrity and thst whole comment doesn’t make me have faith in his integrity to a woman. Yes, they aren’t exclusive, so it is his masculine right to so whatever he wants, but I guess I expected him to care more about me and how that would make me feel. So I guess that is reflecting that I am not caring for myself enough? I don’t know if he is going to say anything else to this conversation, but I feel like I need to put distance between him and I right now because apparently the boundaries keep waning. What do you ladies think?

  154.  #154Millie on August 20, 2015 at 1:49 pm

    Btw I have been reading just haven’t really been jumping in on the conversations. I have to say Go Kim! With knowing what you want and traveling for yourself! I love traveling alone!

  155.  #155Kim on August 20, 2015 at 2:01 pm

    Millie….I would probably drop that guy. As I get older, I more and more avoid the types of ‘friendships’ that don’t make me feel good…I still have MrP contacting me, much for the same reason. He says he wants to do stuff with me, ‘hang’ out at my place, bla. I ignore or say no.
    He could never be bothered to commit to me, so what point does it serve – yes we were friends too, but I now feel so turned off by all that, I gladly say good-bye,
    Our time on this planet is limited – don’t waste it on these types of friends…is my motto anyway 🙂

  156.  #156Femininewoman on August 20, 2015 at 2:05 pm

    Millie at the end of the day he feels attraction for you. He has some level of respect for the person he is dating. Many men are married and still feel like sleeping with other women. Of course he would not want it to be public knowledge.

    What is I see is a man being true to his feelings of wanting to sleep with you. I also see a confident women who established her own boundary and honored it. Rest assured his level of respect for you went up.

  157.  #157Femininewoman on August 20, 2015 at 2:11 pm

    I take his statement as proof that guys who have not committed is likely to stay hunting. They are willing to circular date and honor their single status

  158.  #158Millie on August 20, 2015 at 8:04 pm

    Kim— I am leaning towards agreeing with you. Life is short and as much as I WAS happy in the friendship, this breach of boundaries has really shaken me. The biggest issue I’m facing with dating is 1) not being over M and 2) feeling like no one is good enough. But I’d rather be alone and pursuing my goals than with any of these guys.

    Femininewoman– there is attraction for me as well and there is tension… And I have no problem with him honoring his hunt. I just want to be left out of it, it I’m not a serious contender.

  159.  #159Zia on August 20, 2015 at 8:43 pm

    Dixie 111:

    ““It’s good to have standards, of course, I nowadays prefer mine to rest more in the ‘loves me’, ‘cherishes me’, ‘attracts me’, ‘does not cheat’ categories than what type of shirt a man wears.””

    Yep. One of my “standards” was a guy being taller than me. My fiance is not – because I decided to drop all my standards and really use Rori’s advice – “Do I feel good around him?” and “Does this feel good?” and the answer was yes so I continued to see him.

  160.  #160Liquid Light on August 20, 2015 at 10:06 pm

    Millie, just some thoughts on your post.

    Yes, as FW said, he is attracted to you. I’ve been thinking the same thing for a long time, its obvious.

    So what that he did that? All you have to do, as a Siren is respond to how you feel in the moment. It didn’t feel good to you, you expressed it, now let it go. Its no more , no less than that. If you can get to that place, and I agree with FW, you will be an incredible siren to him (u already are) but please don’t dwell on this one thing. Its no big deal and if that’s the way you treat it, his respect and attraction for you will catapult.

    Just sit back and see what he does next. But please don’t give him anymore power than that. Give him respect and admiration when he rises to the occasion and follows through. This is part of the attraction process. The more you dwell on this and make him wrong, the more you lose and his attraction to you wanes. The more you let it go and have a couldn’t care less “wait and see attitude”, the more his attraction grows.

    Just my two cents. Let the games begin (or continue as the the case may be 😉

  161.  #161Indigo on August 20, 2015 at 10:10 pm

    Millie 153,

    I am truly hoping your thoughts after that incident with Mechanic were “Thank HEAVENS it is her and not me!” Or at least, that’s what mine would have been.

    Think about it… yes he “shows” her off in public, but behind closed doors, she has to wonder if he is sleeping with other women? Is that really a fair trade-off? In my mind, absolutely not. Is he really such a prize that she should be thankful to be publicly acknowledged as his date while he sleeps around?

    If it were me, I would drop this man like a hot potato. I too highly value integrity, and I try to only keep men around me who reflect these values. The guy friends I have would never do this.

  162.  #162Indigo on August 20, 2015 at 10:13 pm

    Oh also for me, I don’t keep guy “friends” around me any more who can’t tolerate just being friends, who insinuate that they want to sleep with me or something more. My feeling is, if you’re going to be my friend, then be my friend, and have the level of caring and respect for me that that title comes with. I’ve had boundary-pushing guy friends before and I’m just over that.

  163.  #163Millie on August 20, 2015 at 11:08 pm

    Liquid Light– I think you are right… Owning a carefree attitude is in my best interest. I said my peace and it’s not worth dwelling over!

    Indigo– yeahhhh I don’t know…. I definitely need space from him right now. I have male friends who truly are just friends, and I understand what you are saying about being one or the other. I’m going to not focus on it and see what happens while staying on my horse of course 😉

  164.  #164Femininewoman on August 21, 2015 at 4:03 am

    Millie a few short months ago you were pining over Mechanic and M came along. You were able to reduce the memory of Mechanic and dance with M. Mechanic became just a friend. Maybe it is now time to ask yourself if being friends with such men is working for you. Mechanic did nothing wrong as far as I am concerned. I think it is unrealistic to believe that such men will not want to sleep with you. For all you know that night you could have arrived home and he decides to just hold you through the night. You or no one else here knows because it never happened. What is happening is that you are learning about yourself. Her you are learning that you can honor your boundaries, you have grown as a human being, you have increased your level of difficulty and you are ruminating about what coulda mighta happened and judging this man’s integrity.

    Yes I disagree with Indigo because neither you nor her know that he is sleeping with other women. What proof is there? Even if he insinuated that he wanted to sleep with you what is so wrong with that? He can want all he wants but what is he getting? How many men joke about that kinda stuff all the time? When did it become a lack of caring or respect for a man to want to be with a woman in that way? Did he touch you inappropriately, or physically tried anything? If he was a boundary pushing male friend he might have ensured that you were drunk enough to go there……is my humble opinion. Maybe in 20 years when you are both settled in happy families and haven’t seen each other forever you might learn that he feels the same way about you.

    Some men will tell you outright that they don’t keep close female friends because of these types of feelings, healthy warm bloodied males will have. Many will assume you want to sleep with them when you continuously hang out with them and don’t have a boyfriend. Sex makes them happy. What is wrong about them thinking that giving you sex would make you happy?

    Unless there is something more that I am not understanding my thought is he offered, you rejected that’s it. You are evaluating your friendship with him and seeing if you can indeed keep a past romantic interest as a friend. You are learning that men and women do think alike. You are learning that you are desirable, lovable and that men do want you. Try to see the lesson for what it truly is and build your carefree lack of interest attitude towards him.

  165.  #165Kim on August 21, 2015 at 4:04 am

    161 and 162 yes Indigo, I totally agree with all of that!

  166.  #166forest siren on August 21, 2015 at 5:09 am

    Hi sirens! just looking for some feedback if anyone feels inclined. My man and I were invited to a wedding of a dear friend of mine this weekend and someone he is very fond of. As a planner I have known about it for weeks, have planned pet-care and have planned an overnight stay. As a non planner my man realized that he has to work this weekend in the same place that the wedding is about an hour away from us. He works every weekend its his busiest time. Now he is saying he can’t go to the wedding at all and is mad at me saying I don’t understand his priorities and responsibilities. WE are in a long term relationship and the roles that work for us are he pays pretty much for everything and I help and support him with everything. Its been hard to negotiate staying in feminine energy when I do so much to organize our lives but we have found a way to make it work (by working with a coach this really helped me reverse the energy when I need to)

    I feel upset as I want to go with him I was looking forward to this and yet I understand he has to work all day Saturday, maybe race up there that evening for the wedding, then come back that night and leave again the next morning to go back to the same area and work all day in a relatively stressful environment.

    Am I unreasonable to be frustrated? I’ve seen him move work things around when he wants to and its been an issue for us me coming second to his work. I’ve worked with an amazing coach Stephanie Turner who has really helped me over the last 6 months stay in my feminine energy. Our texts yesterday were getting back to old patterns – me taking the fun out of it by reminding him of his obligations and commitments and him getting terse and blamey with me saying he has to work etc.

    Today I sent an email (oh we are texting and emailing because I have asked him 3 times when is a good time to talk about it and as a non planner he leaves everything to the last minute and so doesn’t want to talk about it) saying look no pressure, i’m sure you will find a solution and i understand its tough to be going back and forth and back and forth. what do you think? I tried to emphasise it would be fun.

    Any suggestions from you all would be appreciated!

    I don’t want to go to the wedding by myself when I have been looking forward to going with him for weeks. I don’t want to get myself there and back especially driving late at night on the highway (though I could stay up there with our friend). I don’t want to miss the ceremony but right now the only solution I can see is for us to go together if we go later for the meal and if I stay up there and he drives back (but maybe that is unfair as he does have a long stressful day the next day).

    Thanks ladies! I read all your stories and love keeping up with you all xo

  167.  #167Femininewoman on August 21, 2015 at 5:13 am

    forest siren that is what YOU want to do and want him to honor.

    That is not what he wants to do. He wants to work. Putting any energy into forcing him to change his mind will meet with resistance. How about finding a way to honor his choice?

  168.  #168Kim on August 21, 2015 at 5:30 am

    Forest Siren, that sucks!! I would be pissed too.
    Having said that, I would go to the wedding and try to have a good time, flirt, dance and just be happy with my friends.
    I am sure he will regret his choice and would be surprised if this happened again.
    I would be expressing my disappointment and then let it rest…in the end, like FW said, you have to respect his choice even if you don’t like it.
    He is providing…he is proud to be and proud of his job and he wants to do a good job. It’s not like he wants to go partying with his mates instead….

  169.  #169Sami Wunder on August 21, 2015 at 6:39 am

    Forest Siren, I am sorry about your situation. I would feel pissed too and yet I wonder how this can happen in a relationship where there is clear communication and understanding of each other´s needs and expectations. To me, there is something deeper here that needs to be addressed. I can´t point it out though without knowing more.

    Your choice here is to either fully accept his choice (like feminine woman and Kim say) or reject it fully ( say I´ll go but I am not feeling happy about this). Trying to make him change his mind about it will not work in your favour. It´s very masculine and will make him resentful towards you.

    Love, Sami

  170.  #170forest siren on August 21, 2015 at 7:00 am

    Thanks for the feedback ladies! Very helpful. I think I may have been unfair expecting too much but I think it is also just unfortunate the wedding coincides with a work weekend in that particular area.

    I think I will express my disappointment and leave it at that. I may go by myself for a while and while that sucks it may just be the best thing to do as I do want to be there. I ran it past one other friend who also said its too much for him to try to do all that.

    I think your point Sami is true. We have very different styles of communication. I could definitely use some help in that regard.

  171.  #171Millie on August 21, 2015 at 7:11 am

    Femininewoman— I don’t know if he is sleeping with other women, that doesn’t matter. But what would matter is if I were dating him and he was spending the night with his female friends. Yes, he has every right to do what he wants I am in no disagreement there, but I would not feel good if that were to happen. Yes, I am putting myself in her shoes.

    It wasn’t the fact he wants to sleep with me that upset me. We have chemistry, we have sexual tension, it’s been there. What bothered me was that he wanted to hide it. He was willing to do something and lie about it. That’s where I am judging his integrity. If anything were to happen I would prefer receiving his affection to feel free and airy, not something that only exists behind closed doors, that I have to pretend didn’t happen. Does that make sense ?

  172.  #172Kim on August 21, 2015 at 7:55 am

    I go further Millie…if I had a ‘friend’ who wants to sleep with my whilst keeping it a secret and lying as well as dating another girl (who may or may not believe they are exclusive, I don’t trust the things men say if they want sex, I have heard the ‘I don’t love/sleep with my wife’ as well a hundred times when it wasn’t true!)…well
    I would call him a user. He could pay a pr*stitute if he wants sex and keeping it secret, they would charge him a lot of money. I like to think that we are not working in that type of service industry, much less selling our bodies for free to someone who just wants a body…..which is what this is more or less. Yes, he is attracted to you…so are probably 80% of the men on this planet. We are women. Men are attracted to us.
    So…this has happened to me. I still get advances in that direction from MrP, yet he tirns around and wines and dines and goes boating with other women….and wants to meet me in my apartment at midnight and stuff like that.
    I told him flat out that there are women charging for those services. I don’t mean to be crude, but I am NOT one of them. Why would I do it for free lol…unless he wants to seriously date me and commit (no hope hence I don’t go there).
    That is using a woman for their own pleasure. I don’t want to feel used. I have on occasion had a sexual relationship with a guy when the attraction was strong, knowing it was not going togo anywhere, but even they have treated me like a queen, taken me out for dinners, doing me lots of favors and being nice guys with no gf or at least not that I knew of.
    No secrecy.
    You know, nobody needs friends who just want selfish gratification…so bravo. It’s about having self-worth and self respect.

  173.  #173Azure Blu on August 21, 2015 at 8:14 am

    Kim #172
    Good point!

  174.  #174Zara on August 21, 2015 at 8:43 am

    166 Forest Siren

    It is YOUR friend’s ceremony. You don’t want to miss it; a wedding ceremony is a very rare event we can share with one specific friend.
    Boyfriends and husbands are here for a season or two, while friends can be forever when we keep showing up for special times.
    We do remember with our friends these special times we shared, we do not remember with our ex boyfriends/husbands the fights we had about going there or not.

    Now, if this boyfriend/husband is to be here forever, then you and he together will know what to do for you to be a good friend to the bride while you being a good wife to him and he a good husband to you…

    As a friend, you can drive alone to be there for your friend during her ceremony. And enjoy what is.

    As a wife you can let your husband off the hook and not stir up his guilt. His gut feelings tell him to work that day. His wife tells him not to trust his own gut feeling. It has to be an awful spot to be in for him. I would stay away from any suggestion that he is not supposed to work that day.

    You can book a hotel room close to his work place, which is close to the wedding venue. (Well, that’s how I read it) And present it to him as an option for him, not a forced-on-him-plan.
    He keeps the freedom to decide where he wants to drive to, after work that day. It is up to him, entirely.
    The option keeps opened thanks to this hotel room, just in case he chooses to join you for the evening meal, which would make you so happy.

    You can check in the hotel room before the ceremony time. Bring his ceremony suit with you and hang it on a hanger in the hotel room. Bring all his stuff to shave and what not for a wedding party. Leave it all in the hotel room.
    Get yourself nice and pretty and go to the ceremony.

    Enjoy and try not to expect him to make it there for the meal. If he makes it there, take it as a bonus from life. If he does not, well you still can spend a good evening enjoying your friends. It is only a few hours shared with friends, after all.

    When your husband is done working, he can choose to drive to the hotel, which saves him from the “driving stress” as his work place is much closer to the hotel than his own home.
    He can have a shower, a shave and all that, put his suit on and drive to the ceremony venue. Or he can even phone you when he is dressed up so you can drive back to the hotel to pick him up, so there will be only one car parked at the wedding venue.

    You both enjoy the wedding party and you can both leave the venue in the same car when you feel like leaving. Neither of you have to worry about driving at night because you booked a hotel room 5 minutes away from the venue. Sometimes you can even book a room in the venue itself. It all depends how much money you can spend on that room. So either you walk back to your room together, or you drive 5 minutes together. This avoids the stress of driving back late at night.

    In the morning, he takes a shower, has a coffee and a croissant and jumps in his car to drive to his work which happens to be closer to the hotel than to his own home which again, saves him from the driving stress he usually has.

    You drive back to your home in your car.

    He wins, driving a lot less over the week-end and still doing his work.
    He wins relaxing with friends during the evening party.
    He wins making his wife happy.
    He wins having a resting good night sleep right after the fun and right before the work.

    You win experiencing your friend’s ceremony.
    You win knowing your man is working as his guts tell him to do.
    You win knowing your man is not wearing himself out driving back and forth.
    You win experiencing the wedding meal with your man. And a night out in a hotel room with him.

    Now, the problem seems to be he is not coming up with any plan about it.
    The only way seems to be for you to bring up this plan yourself, saying it is a plan for yourself, not a forced-on-him-plan. For him, it is an opened option, an invitation from you. It is what you are going to do, no matter what, and he is invited to join after work if he so wishes to. Which would make you very happy.


  175.  #175Indigo on August 21, 2015 at 8:59 am

    Kim 172,

    I am totally with you. I’m all for FWB and non-judgmental of it if it’s what both people want, and it feels good to BOTH. In other words, all the terms of the arrangement have to feel good to both people, and both need to feel like they are getting something out of it. In particular, I think the woman needs to be in possession of all the facts, and make an educated decision if it’s what she wants. Me personally, I have entered into a FWB situation in the past, but it was NEVER if I entertained any hope of dating them seriously, and never if there was the slightest hint of another woman in the picture. As soon as it stops feeling good, I stop. And with time I’ve realised I can’t keep these men as friends – for me, the lines are too blurry and I feel as though I am fending them off for the rest of time.

    And I agree with you about not necessarily trusting a man when he says he is not exclusive with a woman… He may think so, but there is a chance he has not discussed this with her and SHE thinks they are exclusive. Too many great available men out there for this kind of drama!

  176.  #176Indigo on August 21, 2015 at 9:08 am

    Zara 174,

    I really like this suggestion.

    One thing I have envied about the men I have dated, is that they seem to be able to plan something like this and present it as an invitation for me to join him, yet have a good and full-bodied experience regardless, rather than making me feel like I had to come – and whilst they appreciate my presence and it makes them happy, my being there or not does not materially alter the importance of the experience for them.

  177.  #177IamHis on August 21, 2015 at 11:08 am

    Just some leftover venting: does telling a man that something he did was not okay fall under the category of “making him wrong?” Does telling him that his lying to you makes you feel unsafe “make him wrong?” Does trying to figure out why he did something a while ago, even if you didn’t speak up about it right away “make him wrong?”

    People, men & women, make mistakes. Sometimes we choose less-than-ideal-words at less-than-ideal times to communicate about those “mistakes.”

    I feel really confused. :/

  178.  #178April Rose on August 21, 2015 at 11:13 am


    It sounds like there is an experience you are having or have had, that is making you ask those questions.

    Those things can only be answered in context. Would you care to share what is going on?

  179.  #179IamHis on August 21, 2015 at 11:51 am

    A guy I liked at work grabbed my boobs, & I didn’t talk to him about it until two months after the fact, & he said he was sorry “something” had happened, but that he had no idea what I was talking about, when upon talking to him further about it, it was very obvious that he did indeed remember, but continued to deny doing it….

  180.  #180Lovergirl on August 21, 2015 at 12:03 pm

    I just got a text from S, thanking me for how I have “handled things” since we last spoke (when he acted like a jerk, like I never meant anything to him and said he never wanted to hear from me again- 6 days ago). How ive “handled” it is simply not doing anything. I haven’t bothered him, why would I? In any case, Im baffled and unsure if I should even respond.

  181.  #181Indigo on August 21, 2015 at 12:25 pm

    forest siren,

    From my experience, all you can do is be an invitation and leave the ball in his court. I wish there were more we could do, but from what I’ve found it’s as simple as that. Pushing will just make him angry and resentful – and pushing can look anything which feels like pressure. Masculine men are strong willed, in my experience, and the only way is to let them come with you of their own free will.

    From your standpoint, I totally understand you feeling disappointed but I’d encourage you to shift this as other sirens have said to this being an experience for your life, you being there for your friend, and to throw yourself into it as being this.

  182.  #182Indigo on August 21, 2015 at 12:37 pm


    I’ve not shared this up until now, but BikeCD has been super busy with work recently. Needless to say, it was making me feel anxious and disconnected. We had drifted a bit apart over the last two weeks and that was making me very scared.

    After wrestling with and going back and forth with my feelings for a while, I finally said I had a suggestion that I’d like to talk to him about, and could he come over. He suggested we get some dinner and drinks tonight and have a chat.

    I confided to him that it was clear that his business needed his attention and his focus and that I respected that. I said that I thought he needed to do what he needed to do, and that I was willing to lay back and let him let ME know when he was willing and able to see me, that I would leave the ball completely in his court. That immediately made him concerned for me, saying he didn’t want to be unfair to me, that he wanted to be able to give me all the attention I deserved, but that he was just under so much pressure at the moment. I basically said I trusted him that he needed to do what he needed to, and to let me know when he was ready to give me more. He wanted to know if I was really ok with that. I said that I had come to the realisation that I needed to work on not pushing and pressurising, and that I needed practice with that; and that I was not comfortable ending things with him because of nagging doubts I had in my mind about my leaning forward and pressurising. He seemed to understand that. It was a great chat and we had a wonderful evening and he was so relaxed and the energy was so lovely and positive between us, and he thanked me for being so awesome and went on to invite me round for a movie tomorrow night!

    Happy 🙂

  183.  #183April Rose on August 21, 2015 at 1:09 pm


    Thank you for the clarification.
    There is a world of difference between not making a guy wrong (in ordinary circumstances), and dealing with bad/innapropriate behaviour.

    Sexual assault is an offence. I would report it immediately if anyone touched me intimately without my consent.

    Not making a guy wrong applies to when he is innocent! When we are listening to our nasty voices and wanting to blame a man for our feelings. Example “Why didn’t you call me?” would be making him wrong. “I missed your voice and our lovely conversations” would be expressing your feeling without making him wrong.

  184.  #184Azure Blu on August 21, 2015 at 1:10 pm

    Indigo #182
    you are an amazing Siren!!
    I’m so impressed with your sharing of your feelings…
    that you understand that he is feeling pressure at work…
    and that you wanted to practice not pushing and pressuring… WOW!!!
    It sounded like he was good with that!!
    This all seems to have generated MORE closeness and emotional intimacy!!!

  185.  #185Azure Blu on August 21, 2015 at 1:23 pm

    Lovergirl #180
    S sure doesn’t want to let go… you adorable Siren!!!
    Of course he knows what he is loosing!!!

    I’m not sure what to say either…. wonder what
    other Sirens think?

  186.  #186Zara on August 21, 2015 at 1:42 pm

    Kamila’s story with Tony Robbins


  187.  #187forest siren on August 21, 2015 at 2:02 pm

    Zara thank you so much! I really love your advice! It made me feel so relaxed just even reading it that I will have a wonderful time no matter what. And I love the idea of bringing his stuff and then he can join me if he likes.

    I think I may have a tendency to have expectations that he prioritize me and I’m not sure how to balance that with respect for his work. Probably some of it is leftover resentments from when I came LAST on the list now I worry if I’m not FIRST.

    Thank you all so much! Indigo, sending a big hug. Its been crazy busy with work but I’ve thought of you often. xo

  188.  #188April Rose on August 21, 2015 at 2:59 pm


    I almost didn’t click on the link you posted to Kamilla’s story. I didn’t know what it was about and so I didn’t feel any curiousity or pull.

    For some reason I clicked anyway. I just heard this –

    “What she needs is a man who’s strong enough to stand up for what she really needs, not a man who’s gonna panic and lose his nerve whenever she gets upset…”

    “.. If she tries to control a strong, self-directed man, they’re likely to clash and he’s likely to leave, but if she learns how to set aside her need for control, she can use her feminine influence on any man and get his full interest and enthusiasm as well…”

    “What’s gonna make you joyful is trading expectation for appreciation”

  189.  #189Liquid Light on August 21, 2015 at 5:24 pm

    Wow, Zara, Kamila’s story with Tony Robbins was absolutely amazing! I loved it and learned so much about myself and my expectations and how they make me miserable. Thanks for posting!

  190.  #190Liquid Light on August 21, 2015 at 5:31 pm

    Millie, just one more thought about your post about Mechanic. The way this goes with him is the way it goes with every man. Its not about Mechanic, its about you.

    How the dynamic plays out with him is the same dynamic that plays out with every man (in one form or another). That’s why I’m encouraging you to choose a whole new different path with him. One that empowers you and sets you free. Then new patterns can develop and so it goes that you will also have those same new patterns play out with every man you meet.

  191.  #191Liquid Light on August 21, 2015 at 5:56 pm


    Speaking of patterns, I keep running into the same thing over and over again. Not with every man but it happens a lot.

    We go out a few times, they invite me into their home (or for a weekend away) for the next date, I decline, and then they drop me like a rock. It doesn’t matter if I say I’d love to see them again but I’m not ready for x (be at their homes/overnight).

    Really wondering if this strategy is working for me. I’ve missed out on some decent guys (one in particular) because of this rule (not sleeping with a man too quickly) I’m not sure that they would really respect me less if I did. It seems that by my turning them down, they take it as a rejection and that I don’t feel the same way about them as I feel about them.

  192.  #192forest siren on August 21, 2015 at 7:28 pm

    Zara I read your comment again and I love it. I think it is brilliant. I think its the shift I’m looking for, having a gorgeous time myself and being an invitation. As you say Indigo, the men in your life create these experiences for you with no pressure.

    I feel a bit embarrassed to admit I definitely have expectations that he cater to me in some ways. That he drive me here and there, maybe a bit spoiled of me? Its interesting cos I think he can be a bit spoiled but maybe its something in me? He says I have to consider my expectations of him.

    Maybe there is a difference between having a high degree of difficulty and having unfair expectations. I’d love some insight into this.

  193.  #193Starla on August 21, 2015 at 9:16 pm

    Liquid Light,
    If you’re in the zone of re-thinking strategies and experimenting to find what feels just right to you, what immediately came to my mind was to try leaning forward after you pass on such an invitation. It is my hope you will stick to your boundaries and feelings about not doing anything before you’re ready. It has been my experience that a woman not giving in to to a man’s s*xual desires doesn’t run a man off AT ALL. Her seeming disinterest is the only problem here. The problem with the scenario is that when a man asks a woman to do something he knows she might say no to, he pretty much puts the ball in her court to shape his next move. There are many ways to show interest without putting out! So if you want to experiment with a new “strategy,” maybe try something like making the next date… something rockstar-ish like hitting him up at the last minute to spontaneously get some ice cream on an oppressively hot day. If he can make it, great, and if he can’t, he knows you want to see more of him. Either way, there is no question that the ball gets put back in his court by you doing this!

    I personally have never ever ever ever put out when I didn’t absolutely, totally want to. It has never run a quality man off. It did run one guy off, but s*x was the only thing he was looking for and he told me so when he awkwardly had to face me at a party later that year!

    I am wondering how you express your feelings to the man in these moments. Rori has worked with this particular topic quite a bit. I can’t remember the feeling messages she’s offered for this, but it is something along the lines of the truth (crazy, I know;)). Maybe you could try being super vulnerably honest with them the next time this comes up… “Ohhh goodness, I feel nervous… saying this has started to make me feel nervous… I don’t like to get in bed before I feel like I know someone pretty well.” Then be quiet and let him respond. If he pushes, “just come over for a movie… I promise no funny business…” then go with your gut. If your gut says it’s an attempt to keep trying to get you to put out, just laugh it off and say you feel better avoiding that setting for now. And again, consider the ball in your court. Will some men take the ball and call you even if they’re unsure of your interest anyway? The answer is yes and this is ideal! But in my experience, pleeeenty of men don’t, and it’s not because they’re “just not that into you”.

  194.  #194Starla on August 21, 2015 at 9:18 pm

    Liquid Light, I responded to you, but it went into moderation. Hopefully it appear soon (above this comment).

  195.  #195Starla on August 21, 2015 at 9:19 pm

    Reposting a comment because I used the wrong email address and went into moderation

    Liquid Light,
    If you’re in the zone of re-thinking strategies and experimenting to find what feels just right to you, what immediately came to my mind was to try leaning forward after you pass on such an invitation. It is my hope you will stick to your boundaries and feelings about not doing anything before you’re ready. It has been my experience that a woman not giving in to to a man’s s*xual desires doesn’t run a man off AT ALL. Her seeming disinterest is the only problem here. The problem with the scenario is that when a man asks a woman to do something he knows she might say no to, he pretty much puts the ball in her court to shape his next move. There are many ways to show interest without putting out! So if you want to experiment with a new “strategy,” maybe try something like making the next date… something rockstar-ish like hitting him up at the last minute to spontaneously get some ice cream on an oppressively hot day. If he can make it, great, and if he can’t, he knows you want to see more of him. Either way, there is no question that the ball gets put back in his court by you doing this!

    I personally have never ever ever ever put out when I didn’t absolutely, totally want to. It has never run a quality man off. It did run one guy off, but s*x was the only thing he was looking for and he told me so when he awkwardly had to face me at a party later that year!

    I am wondering how you express your feelings to the man in these moments. Rori has worked with this particular topic quite a bit. I can’t remember the feeling messages she’s offered for this, but it is something along the lines of the truth (crazy, I know;)). Maybe you could try being super vulnerably honest with them the next time this comes up… “Ohhh goodness, I feel nervous… saying this has started to make me feel nervous… I don’t like to get in bed before I feel like I know someone pretty well.” Then be quiet and let him respond. If he pushes, “just come over for a movie… I promise no funny business…” then go with your gut. If your gut says it’s an attempt to keep trying to get you to put out, just laugh it off and say you feel better avoiding that setting for now. And again, consider the ball in your court. Will some men take the ball and call you even if they’re unsure of your interest anyway? The answer is yes and this is ideal! But in my experience, pleeeenty of men don’t, and it’s not because they’re “just not that into you”..

  196.  #196Zia on August 21, 2015 at 10:01 pm

    Urgh. I feel sick and nauseous and yucky in my tummy. I feel unmotivated to do my school work. One day at a time!

  197.  #197Indigo on August 21, 2015 at 11:53 pm

    Azure Blu 184,

    Thank you so much! My comment made it sound so easy, but I assure you it was a huge amount of work to get to that point. There were tears and doubts and insecurities, and finally I settled into a beautiful feeling of clarity – with the help of insight from some amazing sirens – and the energy finally felt beautiful to me, and it was reflected in my interaction with him last night, which was soft and flowing and affectionate.

    This work is so worth it 🙂

  198.  #198Indigo on August 22, 2015 at 12:06 am

    Liquid Light 191,

    There were a few thoughts about your dilemma that came up for me. Firstly, if you are wondering whether this is working for you, then there is probably something for you to explore here and I encourage you to go with that. Secondly, your using the word “strategy” makes me wonder if you are becoming too rigid with this. Are you “shoulding” yourself? Maintaining this boundary because of what you think you “should” do and expectations of how the relationship “should” go? If so, I can tell you from experience (believe me, I’ve been there, done that) that this throws up distance between you and a man. If he feels you putting the brakes on things simply for the sake of doing it, it will be a turn-off to him. I believe a man wants a woman who can flow softly and relaxed with him, and bring him into the present moment. That said, could there be some fear of intimacy on your part? Not physical intimacy but emotional intimacy? Most of us have some fear, and often this plays into the boundaries we put in in relationships.

    Again, it is very admirable to hold off on sleeping with a guy until you are ready – and I insist on doing this for myself. But it’s the way you do it that’s important. Like Starla says, a quality man will not be scared off by this. You could try asking them straight when they invite you to their house if sex is what they had in mind. Coming into someone’s home can be an intimacy building experience even if there is no sex, so if he is happy not to have sex and you are happy to go, you might try just going with it. You can always excuse yourself if you no longer feel comfortable.

    Personally the way I did it with BikeCD is – he clearly started wanting sex from the second date and that felt very yummy but I wasn’t ready. I let myself feel all those yummy feelings and I kissed him passionately, I told him how turned on I felt and that I really wanted him but that it was too soon for me. He understood this, as any good guy would, yet he was in no doubt of my attraction to him and also he realised that I wasn’t saying no… I was just saying not now.

  199.  #199Indigo on August 22, 2015 at 2:31 am

    forest siren 192,

    You may want to maybe consider coaching with Dominique because she’s excellent at this.

    Personally, I love Dominique’s bringing things back to you theory, and have found it enormously helpful. So if we take it that things which keep recurring, especially in our close relationships, are a reflection of something going on inside ourselves, what would this be for you? Perhaps him wanting his work to be more of a priority means you wish your work was more of a priority? Where are you not putting yourself first with you? As far as being spoiled, you will most likely find, as I do with parts of myself that I am iffy about, that this is a part of you coming up begging for your attention and wanting to be loved on. Maybe you could try spoiling yourself.

    When it comes to what we can *expect* from our men… well, you know we can’t control them, so it’s nothing that they would not willingly do on their own. As for the rest, it’s mostly a trigger to look at within ourselves. And finally, some men are just not able to do the job, not able or willing to cherish us, and then we have to decide if this relationship really is for us.

    To take an example from my own life (because this is helping me in my processing too), I gave D a very long time to see if he was able to be the man who could be there for me and cherish me consistently. I made plenty of mistakes and went back and forth. None of it was in vain because I learnt so much. In the end, I came to the conclusion that nothing that I did, both within myself and for the relationship, would bring the desired outcome for me because he simply wasn’t ready or capable. With BikeCD, when scenarios came up where I didn’t feel fully cherished, I was still triggered and still tempted to go back into old patterns which didn’t work. But the severity of the scenario was so much less and this was a man who truly wanted me and wanted a relationship, and so when I made small adjustments in my behaviour he did a 180 and came around. So the two were very different.

    This is a long winded way of saying there are no rules – only what you can live with, and you get to decide what you can accept and what you can’t.

  200.  #200Sami Wunder on August 22, 2015 at 3:41 am

    Dear Forest Siren,

    There are so many elements to what you are talking about and I would love to help you out. The invitation to schedule a free session for 30 mins on my website is always open!!

    I believe it is important to take things back to yourself in terms of understanding what is really going on in your relationship – are you pushing for more out of loaded expectations or is he, in fact, doing and giving less than a man gives to his woman in a committed relationship (which would make any normal woman feel the way you are feeling right now) ?

    This is a KEY difference and it a place where countless women falter.

    We accept sub-par intimacy ( yes intimacy – because real relationships take a lot of closeness and being together) and we blame ourselves and doubt ourselves for being spoilt and wanting more and tell ourselves we should let go of expectations.

    I disagree. Indeed there are expectations you need to let go of (like pushing a man / pushing anybody / for that matter to come with you) but there are also expectations that you need to have in a committed relationship ( a high level of being spoilt, attention and being adored by your man in general and consistent ways) else you will stay caught in a low-level love equilbrium (the Economist in me returns 😀 ). And as a coach I can guarantee you that there are concrete ways to turn this around without scaring a man off.

    I feel like there is a lot going on for you here (especially in terms of the vibe) and I would love to support you cut through this !

    Love to you, Sami

  201.  #201Kim on August 22, 2015 at 6:26 am

    Wow. I feel surprised, sad and shocked to hear that men losing interest in a woman because she won’t go back to his house and/or sleep with him, is in any way, shape or form something a high quality man/good guy would do.
    Ermmm….wow, just wow.
    In my humble experience, even players who want to look good, don’t expect a girl to sleep with the. On the first or second date…it’s not something I ever came across…in fact, talking to many men, what I hear is this:
    Of course we love sex, and would love it if you would sleep with us right away, but we wouldn’t expect any woman to do so and certainly not one we see a future with because if she is that easy, it makes us think how many guys she’s been with’ and so on.
    This sounds like double standards and totally is. Oh well.
    If anything, I have had the experience of guys TRYING HARDER to impress me if I didn’t sleep with them quickly. No ice cream buying or declarations of my interest required other than lots of smiles and appreciation and a fun and light time. That includes when I wanted to go further but stopped myself because I thought it would be a good idea to test the guy and see how he deals with it – yes, call that a strategy but it NEVER worked to my disadvantage.
    I feel honestly shocked at the insinuation that if we don’t have sex with a man quickly, he will run…makes me sad.
    Those that run are just looking for a quick lay, not a relationship with a partner and a soul connection.
    Period. It is what it is.

  202.  #202Indigo on August 22, 2015 at 7:32 am


    “I feel honestly shocked at the insinuation that if we don’t have sex with a man quickly, he will run…”

    Who on earth said that? Certainly not me or Starla.

  203.  #203Azure Blu on August 22, 2015 at 7:51 am

    Liquid Light #191
    I feel curious…
    what do you say to the men who invite you to stay over or on a weekend date and you decline?

  204.  #204Azure Blu on August 22, 2015 at 7:52 am

    Ohhhh… that doesn’t sound fun…
    How far along are you in your pregnancy?

  205.  #205Femininewoman on August 22, 2015 at 7:57 am

    Yes Kim I too was wondering where you saw that.

  206.  #206Azure Blu on August 22, 2015 at 8:04 am

    Indigo #200
    I think Kim was referring to what Liquid L
    “Not with every man but it happens a lot.
    We go out a few times, they invite me into their home (or for a weekend away) for the next date, I decline, and then they drop me like a rock.”

    In my experience over the years…
    I have always waited to have sex with any man I am dating….
    of course when I was young there were a few one night stands… but I would wake up in the morning and be really upset that i wasted alllll my
    yummie, exciting, s*xy energy on some stranger…
    and feel blah after….
    SOOOOO… I have held the guy off for as long as I could (because I wanted it badly also)
    and when *I* felt ready…
    The upside to this is the S*xual tension this
    creates which is SOOO VERY HOT!!!
    The men love it too!!! As long as you’re playful and flirty with it…
    and if they get uptight and testy… LET THEM!!!
    Keep it LIGHT!!!

    and as the Sirens have said:
    If the guy disappears… He only wanted one thing…
    you have weeded him out!!
    Yay you!!

  207.  #207Indigo on August 22, 2015 at 8:16 am

    Azure Blu,

    I couldn’t agree more.

    I said in my post “Again, it is very admirable to hold off on sleeping with a guy until you are ready – and I insist on doing this for myself. But it’s the way you do it that’s important. Like Starla says, a quality man will not be scared off by this.”


    “I told him how turned on I felt and that I really wanted him but that it was too soon for me. He understood this, as any good guy would”

    So I am really curious as to what/who Kim is referring to.

  208.  #208Millie on August 22, 2015 at 8:30 am

    Kim 172–
    You know, you touched on something that I did feel but was afraid to say. I’m really careful of going down that mental route because I don’t want to be a woman who views men’s sexual desire as something wrong. It’s up to us to allow a man to “use” us or not. But truthfully, that sinking feeling of, am I just that to him? A quick lay with no emotional backing? And it was disheartening to think that… And to feel that idea pass through my body…and I know that I don’t want to be that girl.

  209.  #209Millie on August 22, 2015 at 8:45 am

    Liquid light 190–

    I’ve noticed something about myself that I feel very proud to say. It’s something I can be grateful to M for showing me and teaching me. I have noticed that my feelings for a man are inversely related to his courtship. When a man is pursuing me and courting me in a way that feels good, my feelings heighten for him, I get flushed and giggly, and my feelings grow. Since I loved M’s courtship and how it made me feel, I find myself looking for that. Mechanic is not courting me in a serious way, at least I don’t think so or feel that. Yes he is bringing his masculine energy to the table and taking care of me in certain ways, but because he is not presenting himself as a serious suitor, my feelings have remained at friendship level. They have not grown. They could grow. The potential is there, a small flame that if nurtured could possibly grow large, but right now… I don’t find myself obsessing or caring more than I should. That most recent event upset me for a day, but it has passed and I feel good knowing what I want and not being afraid to say it. I’m in control now… Of myself. So it’s pretty wonderful that new pathways are forming. I don’t know if this is changing any pattern except that I don’t feel anything for a man who is t choosing me. (Except M.. Still working on that, he’s most out of my system and I’ll be back to clear again) but not to worry… I know his behavior is about him and not me….and my behavior is about me and not him. 🙂

  210.  #210Millie on August 22, 2015 at 8:48 am

    (Lovergirl) wow.. I am speechless as well. I think if I were in your shoes, I would ask myself if it’s going to benefit me in the long run to respond, if I will feel good about it later, if it’s hindering me from letting go:.. How do you feel?

  211.  #211Starla on August 22, 2015 at 9:09 am

    Good morning, Sirens! It is a beautiful day today, and you ladies are one of the first things I thought of when I opened my eyes this morning. <3

    I've been feeling much more drawn than usual to this blog lately. I have arrived for some time now at the relationship I want with a masculine man I want, so I catch myself feeling inspired to look in on the inhabitants of the siren's island I passed through on my journey to get there.

    I strive to live my life and honor my heart and body in feminine ways… a concept I was totally ignorant to before I found this place. I have such beautiful feelings toward everything and everyone here and toward the tangible love, comfort, and learning that I have been able to integrate into unfortunate voids in my identity. Maybe I will write about all that another time.

    The tools and the shift in thinking and how I experience feeling have definitely proven to be a great resource. But at the same time, I can see how my relationship probably would have happened with or without these tools. Sometimes, the man is just very right for you, and it's pretty hard to screw it up. "You can't say the wrong thing to the right man."

    Fortunately, I did/do have these tools, so it helps to make everything more pleasant and easier to handle…. it helps me work through my own issues and discomforts and feel good about what I'm bringing to the table in the relationship. But I don't have this relationship because I leaned back or forward the magic number of times, if you know what I mean.

  212.  #212Starla on August 22, 2015 at 9:19 am

    I am excited about sinking deeper into some of the Rori (and her coaches’!) tools. I feel this big space around me that can be filled with even more of my feminine energy. I am feeling safer to trust that feminine energy can PROVIDE for me as well as masculine energy in all areas of my life. I do not want to live a masculine life. For example, it doesn’t sit well with me to go to my daily career the way I have been all of my adult life. Some days I feel battered by it. I do want to keep working and making money, and yes I’m grateful for the opportunity to be in a “respectable” place in my career when the alternative was poverty, but I want it to look different and less aggressive than what I have now. I want to sink into my talents and my being and generate income from there.

    I also want the feeling that comes from having a beautifully maintained home and body – something I’ve been daydreaming about or striving for for a long time…

  213.  #213Azure Blu on August 22, 2015 at 9:58 am

    Millie #207
    Ohhhh…. my!!! this is so Yummie, Siren
    reads like a lovely poem…

    ” I have noticed
    that my feelings for a man
    are inversely related to his courtship.
    When a man is pursuing me and courting me
    in a way that feels good,
    my feelings heighten for him,
    I get flushed and giggly,
    and my feelings grow.”

    I have pasted and copied these and more of what you wrote in that post!
    I will want to share this with Spirit if he
    might ask again… “What is going on”
    I will share the above and add…
    ” but if a man does not presenting himself as a serious suitor, my feelings have remained at friendship level. They have not grown.”

    You are a Rock Star!!!

  214.  #214Azure Blu on August 22, 2015 at 10:05 am

    AND this is HUGE…
    “So it’s pretty wonderful that new pathways are forming.
    I don’t know if this is changing any pattern except
    I don’t feel anything
    for a man
    who is NOT choosing
    Yay you!!! oxoxox

  215.  #215Azure Blu on August 22, 2015 at 10:10 am

    Indigo #195
    Ahhh… thank you for sharing the journey
    you took to be able to be soft and flowy
    when sharing your feelings with Bike

    I can see… coming to that softer place
    does take much introspection and
    waiting for a calmness from our heart!

  216.  #216Liquid Light on August 22, 2015 at 2:33 pm

    Starla, yes, I could try that. I will consider inviting them in a really casual way to do something low-key, on more of a spontaneous note.

    The truth is, the guys are probably picking up on my lack of enthusiasm and so when I decline, they take it as such. And for the most part they are right.

    I’m a pretty reserved person though so it takes me a while to warm up to someone. I don’t jump in with both feet usually. A lot of these men do but when they sense my reluctance, they interpret it as lack on interest. (Even though I try to communicate that I am interested and do want to see them again, they are picking up on my vibe.)

    Its been a big problem for me. I naturally back off when someone comes on strong, and then sometimes the window of opportunity is gone.

  217.  #217Liquid Light on August 22, 2015 at 2:37 pm

    Millie 209 This is awesome and is music to my ears! 🙂

  218.  #218Lovergirl on August 22, 2015 at 3:32 pm

    Thanks Azure and Millie. I never responded to him. I didnt know what to say,.other than maybe “ok”. I mean, he was thanking me for not talking to him, pretty much, so I just continued,.lol. I didnt say anything and havent heard from him since. I havent been feeling well- allergies or something and on my period and have still had to work so wasn’t really feeling up to talking to S or really any other men. Bleah. I did get a guy, when I was working, telling me about how you get all these aches and pains after you turn 30 and then he was shocked when I said I will be 39 next week, lol. He thought he was talking to someone younger than him and that is always fun. 😉

  219.  #219Zia on August 22, 2015 at 3:57 pm

    #204 Azure Blu – 11 weeks 🙂 Have a scan on Thursday to make sure everything is ok, I feel like it will be. I didn’t have this much nausea with my first and I have had a terrible cough for the past 6 weeks or so! Hopefully things will settle down a bit after the magical 12 week mark 😉

    My fiance and I move in together in just over a month! Super excited! And we have our engagement party all planned. So many great things to look forward to!

  220.  #220IamHis on August 22, 2015 at 5:18 pm

    sexual assault…wow. that feels so strong and violent. and it was, really. One minute M is talking to me, the next minute B is grabbing my left and then right breasts…and I DID NOT see it coming.

    I reported it, we had to work together one more time, and when we did, he avoided me for most of our shift, but towards the end of it, he marched up to me like he was so angry at me and he pulled down on my hair clip.

    But it was weird, I was soooo upset. Angry, sad, confused. I had to excuse myself to literally go sob.

    I’ve been trying to figure out why he did it since he refuses to communicate with me. He has blocked me on social media.

    He came into to our public workplace one last time before he left to go back to school, with his family, who I actually really like and I’m not sure if they even know of what’s been going on.

    and I was walking and he stood in my path and he was just smiling. and I stopped, turned directions, and walked a different way to avoid him.

    but, it’s like he WANTED me to see him.

    Still don’t know when I will know the final results of the investigation, but it feels so tricky, because it’s like his word against my word.

    I feel so embarrassed, but I miss him like crazy. The good parts, I mean. The way I’d feel with him. So small and feminine and safe and protected.

    I learned that he is about as inexperienced as I am, but I feel like it is more embarrassing in my case because I’m about a decade older.

    I know we’re not supposed to do this as goddessy women, but I just wish I knew what he was thinking.

    A potential witness, who is a man, who I feel like B is jealous of, simply because M is more verbal and comfortable around women. My goodness, he has been amazing.

    I suspected that M had something to do with it…simply because M says gross sexual stuff quite a bit. But it became clear that he had nothing to do with it.

    But M really wanted to talk to me about everything. He was so open and concerned, and walked over to me with his chest all puffed out, and really wanted to make sure that “we” were okay.

    But M doesn’t make me feel special at all. He talks to every girl there, and treats them all the same.

    B made me feel special. B turned me on like no one else has. B and I had such a nice, nonverbal thing going. and before I reported him, he was being very sweet.

    It’s just so scary and confusing.

    I feel like B feels guilty for things in his past, and I’m confronting him not only with what he did to me, but with his overall character with girls in general.

    I feel like B grabbed me, because I feel like he feels like he loses a lot with women, because he isn’t very smooth with words.

    But that’s what I really liked about him!

    I liked how he didn’t always know what to say or didn’t always know what to do.

    I liked how he served me, and looked out for me, and how he noticed so many details it was uncanny.

    M is very smooth with words and with women. & he is verbally much more gross.

    but M is showing a much more noble side and B is showing a much more sinister side.

    I just miss B…and I know that doesn’t make any sense. Maybe I have Stockholm syndrome?

    and it’s infuriating that he has completely blocked me out and absolutely refuses to communicate.

    I feel so sad, angry, and confused.

    I just needed to write it all out on here to get it off my chest, so I appreciate the space with which to do that…

    Gonna go do something that feels better…

  221.  #221Kim on August 22, 2015 at 5:55 pm

    206 yes exactly Azure, that was what I was referring to 🙂

  222.  #222Sapphire on August 23, 2015 at 2:16 am

    Yay you for not responding. You just raised your level of difficulty. I dont feel you have heard the last of S. He is here for the lessons you need to develop your Siren.
    No expectatons, lots of feeling messages, being open and raising your level of emotional intimacy with the world.
    Sapphire x

  223.  #223Marie on August 23, 2015 at 5:10 am

    I feel so disgusted by men lately. One that wants to play games and others that I would never be attracted to. Where is my good guy? I am attracted to so few men. It feels like I need to keep focusing on myself and give up on ever having a real relationship. I lost out to a bipolar woman and a yes woman. Seriously? Makes me wonder! I have a professional job, a nice home, good kids, can cook, am fit, and keep myself nice. WTH??

  224.  #224IamHis on August 23, 2015 at 5:21 am

    ((((Marie)))))) – You say you lost out to a bipolar woman. You lost? Sounds like HE lost.

    A yes woman? Sounds like possibly someone with weak boundaries who the jerk could easily manipulate.

    Don’t be so hard on yourself!

    Drop your thoughts into your pelvis. What emotions are you feeling?

    That’s where your vulnerability and beauty lie.

    Lots of women have everything you listed, but it takes a brave woman to be vulnerable.

    Sending you love…

  225.  #225IamHis on August 23, 2015 at 5:23 am

    Honestly, I just feel kind of lost and small…:/

  226.  #226Waterfall on August 23, 2015 at 5:36 am

    Hi Sirens,

    Just checking in to siren island and catching up on all the latest posts. I am loving everyone’s advice about raising your level of difficulty and putting yourself first.

    Also, April Rose your advice was a revelation about not making him wrong. I realise now how much I was struggling with that concept internally and realise I was probably putting up with a lot of bad behaviour because of this.

    Anyway, I am still on and off with CD-D but continuing to do my own thing as well. I feel so trapped and in limbo and I think he does too..

    Yet, it is no nearer being the type of relationship that I want for the long term. We are just so different and that breaks my heart. We had a lovely weekend together a few weeks ago and spent the whole of Sunday pottering around my local neighbourhood and it was a glorious, beautiful summer day. It was lovely. Then the next day he offered to cook dinner for me in my flat when I got home from work. I sheepishly agreed because it felt so nice and comfortable having him around. Like a comfortable pair of slippers.

    So when I got home the following evening I knocked on the door so as not to disturb him. When he opened it I said ‘hey, I knocked as I didn’t want to surprise you”.

    He did a mock shocked look of surprise and responded by joking that he thought I was worried that I would catch him masterbat1ng!! He then starting laughing really loudly at his own joke.

    I felt mortified as he was standing on the landing of my flat at the time and anyone could have heard him. But mostly I felt mortified that he was doing it in front of me. He obviously doesn’t care about my feelings.

    The truth is, he talks like this all the time and it really annoys me. I tell him as much but it doesn’t stop him and he carries on like he just hasn’t heard me.

    The truth is I wanted to tell him to p-off right there and then. I feel so disrespected and annoyed. I was brought up so differently and I cannot comprehend that sense of humour at all.

    Also, when I do ask him not to talk like that he’ll laugh in a sort of school boy snigger and say to me that I am just as bad as him! It’s like he thinks we are two naughty school boys. Nothing turns me off more than this. I find his attitude so immature. He needs to grow up.

    So anyway, a couple of days later he thinks that everything has gone swimmingly well and he texts me that he is going to take me somewhere nice at the weekend. (This is also partly because my grandma has been very ill and I have been helping take care of her.)

    I feel angry that a) he has invited himself over b) he has not asked if I am busy.

    I told him I was busy as I was having a fridge freezer delivered so I wasn’t free. I knew this wasn’t the answer he wanted but his first text sounded quite reasonable and like he was okay with it. Then two minutes later he had a question about my old fridge being recycled. I ignored it because I didn’t want to get into a debate with him. Then he started pestering me with phone calls, texts and emails… I just ignored them.

    His last text was “Please text me you are okay. I am really worried and confused”

    I thought – why are you confused?? I’ve just told you I am busy – what is there to be confused about??

    I totally ignored the calls, texts. Then a couple of days later he told me he was on his way to my flat to see me to check I was okay. I decided I would confront him rather than try and fight him.

    So, at the end of the night I did try and placate him by sending him a text saying I was okay.

    A couple of days later he text me saying he knows I’m not okay (because of my grandma) and then another text to tell me he is on his way to mine.

    When he turns up at mine he just acts like normal so I find it really hard to be mad at him. He gives me loads of cuddles and love and asks me about my grandma etc.. (he is going through something similar at the moment with his own mum).

    Again, because he seems so genuinely caring and concerned it is hard to be mad at him. I feel so confused but I feel I have to suppress it because he may blow up on me as he often does and then that is a battle that I cannot win.

    I end up letting him stay, although I am not really happy about this. The next day he tells me he’ll have dinner on the table waiting for me when I get home. I tell him that we need to talk about our relationship this evening and that I will want him to go home. Even within that spilt second he start shaking and getting upset and because I have to leave to go to work I just leave it and think I’ll deal with it when I get home in the evening.

    But the same thing happens in the evening. He tries to schmooze and seduce me. I tell him I just don’t want a relationship with him and that I find him crude and crass. I give him examples of all his crude jokes and behaviour. He looks at me like he is totally bewildered. I really lay it on thick and call him a misogynist and chauvinist pig etc…

    And actually it is all the truth.

    Then, though he still asks me to go out with him on Sunday. I tell him no, and that he needs to stay aways from my flat to as this is my own personal space.

    Anyway, he is gone now. I don’t know how I have got into this mess. The weird thing is I still do have feelings for him. That attraction is still there. I guess that is what is pulling us together – but it is so dysfunctional.

  227.  #227forest siren on August 23, 2015 at 7:12 am

    Waterfall hi, I have been reading your posts for some time. Have you ever considered your guy maybe has some Aspergers or autistic traits? The inappropriate jokes, laughing, sensitivities, unable to read your mind, your cues?

    Just a thought.

  228.  #228Azure Blu on August 23, 2015 at 7:35 am

    Forest Siren,,,
    Wow… a very interesting observation…
    Waterfall – you could do some research on these online and see if D might have this…

    This is something I have discovered from my CDing…

    My energy and communication flows better
    with men who have been raised by a single mom
    or have more sisters than brothers
    and/or have raised daughters…
    They have a gentler way of communicating with women/girls…
    they can hold their own with their men friends
    but do seem to understand the softer more refined side of women
    I have dated 2 CDs that were VERY harsh and had odd loud sense of humor…
    While I have learned to enjoy the more rawdy side of a man… sometimes louder laughing, masculine excitability…
    I dated 2 CDs who’s harsh extreme masculine way of interacting with me and others… just didn’t work…
    I dont want to change that…

    Dominique always says:
    Take a close loving look at the man in front of you…
    What if he NEVER changed… can you love that man?

  229.  #229Azure Blu on August 23, 2015 at 7:57 am

    Lovely, bright shinning Siren!

    I also looked up your posting with Dominique
    on the last blog… the one about Monica L.
    On post 308 Dominique wrote you a warm,
    thoughtful, in depth coaching on how you might want try and approach your relationship with D.

    Just my observations but…
    Although you mention you do praise D and give him some appreciation… Rori discourages
    pointing out a mans faults (your negative opinion of what he does)
    I have noticed when I go into the blaming mode…
    the man gets VERY defensive (as I would)
    and withdraws or gets angry…

    D does seem so sweet and does seem to have his loving way of taking care of you.. which is masculine…

    I am seeing some on my struggles with emotional intimacy mirrored in the way
    you push him away
    and push him around when
    things are getting closer between you
    and he is trying to
    give to you…

    what is your history with your family in you being cared about/for?

    Its this push and pulling of our man which
    wrecks havoc with our relationships…

    the practicing of ME being authentic and vulnerable
    (which i have always perceived as weak…)
    with my man is something that has
    been way out of MY comfort zone but
    one that is well worth it…
    as I can see how it changes the nature
    of ALL my relationships.

    AND I have only been able to be more vulnerable
    as I Truly, down deep inside, LOVE MYSELF, accept MYSELF more!

    It is always sooo exciting to read about your
    Siren journey…
    Brava for you!!! oxoxoxo

  230.  #230Azure Blu on August 23, 2015 at 8:04 am

    This is from the last thread from Dominique to you…

    “Waterfall – I feel curious about this –
    “I can’t change who I am and “how I feel”.

    Is this so? Though I totally get that you feel what you feel,
    and ALL of your feelings are valid,
    they can also be changed if you want to choose another feeling.
    It truly can be that simple.
    Maybe not so easy sometimes when you’re feeling overwhelmed by one or another feeling,
    yet it’s possible.

    Maybe D is showing you love in HIS WAY which doesn’t quite mesh with yours.
    Can you try opening your eyes
    and heart to HIS WAY?

    With time, patience,
    and practice, his way can come to feel
    as wonderful as your way.

    There’s nothing at all wrong with missing him
    when he’s not there.

    Even with all the filling your life up with activities
    and things which feel good to you,
    the missing can still palpable.
    I see this as a lovely connection,
    a lovely way of staying connected.

    Yes you have differences in style,
    and if you can come to place of acceptance,
    not only will the differences not feel so glaring,
    they might also start to come together
    by him shifting a little your way
    and you his.

    Have you tried encouraging the actions you love
    by embracing them with all you have
    and ignoring the rest as best as you can?
    Have you tried saying to D how much you love when he…..?
    When he does do things your way,
    planned out and not spur of the moment,
    have you told him how wonderful this feels?

    Have you tried to open yourself more to his flow?
    You seem to have something
    so wonderful between you.
    He seems to care for you deeply.
    This can grow into something very special.
    If you want this with him.

  231.  #231Azure Blu on August 23, 2015 at 8:05 am

    Think about you and wondering if you and Tender are now living together?
    I believe this was to happen soon…

  232.  #232Azure Blu on August 23, 2015 at 8:06 am

    We are missing your Siren song
    here on Siren Island…
    How are things with the new guy…
    How are you handling things with F?
    Sending much love!!!

  233.  #233Azure Blu on August 23, 2015 at 8:10 am

    IamHis #224
    lovely Siren… these are just some wonderful warm thoughtful
    sharings you have posed for Marie!!!

  234.  #234Waterfall on August 23, 2015 at 8:14 am

    @ Forest Siren

    Thank you for your comments – I feel so seen & heard!

    Yes, it is possible D has Aspergers. I seem to attract these types of me all the time. It’s weird.

    Also, his brother has struggled with it for years and really is unable to form any friendships or relationships.

  235.  #235Waterfall on August 23, 2015 at 8:28 am

    @ Azure blu

    And thank you for your comments too!!

    I know what you are saying about not pointing out a man’s faults. But I have learnt that if I don’t do that then the resentment builds in me to the point of an exploding crescendo…

    I have learnt that in the best relationships if someone doesn’t pick up those signals from me, then really they are NOT worth knowing.

    In real life if someone said something that made me feel uncomfortable then I could walk away. Maybe I have learnt that from my mum. She walks away a lot if she is not happy.

    what is your history with your family in you being cared about/for?

    I’m not sure I understand your question, but I will have a go at answering…

    I feel that my parents were there for me as much as they could be. I think it was a regular upbringing with Dad going out to work and my mum being at home.

    I guess though feelings weren’t really discussed and I was just left to deal with things on my own. But I guess that is pretty normal? Or is it?!

    My dad passed away when I was a teenager and I felt I had to step in and replace him really. I have always been the emotionally responsible one. I feel like I almost looked after my parents – I still feel like that now. I myself, I’ve never really been “looked after”.

    I think I have always had to suppress my own feelings. I was always made to feel like I was being selfish if I talked about myself. I think that’s why I have issues talking about myself here. It’s like I am so used to listening to other people’s problems I am completely unaware of my own.

    I feel scared that if people knew about what was going on in my private life they would judge me.

  236.  #236Azure Blu on August 23, 2015 at 8:48 am

    Wow… how very vulnerable you have been with us here on Siren Island…
    Sharing with us your life when you were young..
    how sad and scary to have your dad die at such a young age…

    I’m wondering… when you say… you have never been “looked after”
    Does is feel scary/extremely uncomfortable when
    D does things that involve *HIM* looking after… taking care of you?

    To me that would seem
    WAY out of YOUR comfort zone…

  237.  #237Marie on August 23, 2015 at 9:03 am

    Thanks for your support. I feel angry actually because I know I am the good one yet these men want the opposite. I am new to all the tools but I have masculine energy big time. Funny thing is I am 5 foot 2 and have a petite build. I can run circles around these men but I know it’s not supposed to be that way. Where is a man that can handle me? Haha

  238.  #238Waterfall on August 23, 2015 at 9:40 am

    @Azure blu

    In previous relationships I have felt incredibly secure and not batted an eyelid at being looked after.

    My longest relationship was for about 6 years and I don’t remember feeling insecure once.

    But maybe I am wrong..

    When D looks after me, I feel on edge, that he isn’t “doing it right”. I’m not sure if that makes sense..

    He is incredibly sloppy with his care and really seems to be as incompetent as possible.

    The other night we were popping out from my flat. It was just down the road so we quickly grabbed jumper and keys that kind of thing. I ran around my flat shutting windows, generally quickly making sure I hadn’t left anything on the boil – that kind of thing!

    I walked into the living room and D was like “right are we ready to go?”. I was really annoyed as the windows were wide open and a candle was burning that he had not thought to put out.

    He seems completely clueless in this capacity. Like I will have to tell him everything…

    And… he loves this!! He loves that I tell him to pick up after himself and how to wash up etc.. He seems to be getting some massive buzz from it. It really does my head in because it’s like he wants praise for doing the smallest task… and very badly!

    That is the thing, he never learns. He does the same over and over again and he thinks it’s hilarious.

    I actually think he thinks it’s hilarious that he winds me up!! But yet he is the one that is desperately trying to make it work between us??

    He also makes fun of other people who are neat and tidy and tells me how he just dumps his stuff everywhere..

    Sometimes I wonder if that is the only reason he wants to be with me?! Because I am tidy etc…

  239.  #239Indigo on August 23, 2015 at 11:26 am

    I have a rather open-ended question for you ladies,… and I’d welcome your thoughts on it, whatever they might be.

    How do you know someone is the one? Assuming you want to get married, and you want a man who treats you right. Say you even feel good with this man. We all know these same criteria could be fulfilled by many different men. How do you know when to say yes to a proposal?

  240.  #240April Rose on August 23, 2015 at 11:36 am


    “I reported it…… he marched up to me like he was so angry at me and he pulled down on my hair clip…

    …I’ve been trying to figure out why he did it since he refuses to communicate with me. He has blocked me on social media.

    …I feel so embarrassed, but I miss him like crazy. The good parts, I mean. The way I’d feel with him. So small and feminine and safe and protected.”


    I feel LIVID!

    I feel outraged at this man. A man you trusted, a man who had created a ‘trust’ in you, and who then went on to assault you not once, but twice (pulling on your hair).

    I honestly feel nauseous in my stomach hearing about this.

    Not least because of your gorgeous innocence, which this man has clearly played/preyed upon.

    This man is a ROGUE (as in Cherry Norris’s description of the three types of men).
    These men start out acting like a HERO, and then they CHANGE.

    You miss the way he was with you.
    Sweetheart, it was all manipulation. A lie. He is no hero. A hero has our best interests at heart, a hero is protective and takes care of a woman.

    This man is showing his true colours.

    Please, please see that, IamHIs.

  241.  #241April Rose on August 23, 2015 at 11:39 am

    I feel sick hearing about a man punishing a woman when she reports his foul behaviour.

  242.  #242Dominique on August 23, 2015 at 11:47 am

    Indigo – What an amazing question and not an easy one to answer.

    I think it’s different for each individual. Some apparently simply know whether it’s right there in the consciousness or whether it’s a more subtle knowing.

    For some they don’t really know, but if the big pieces are there, and it all feels good (enough) and happy (enough)….

    For some is a chemical attraction/a certain something something which really isn’t so different from the first scenario. Often though not always, chemical attraction can get all muddled, i.e. the hormones are talking, and there may or may not be more to connect to each other with.

    For some there is a feeling of comfort; it feels easy.

    For some it’s a feeling of safety.

    For some it’s feeling loved and adored, cherished.

    And for some there is a frequent concern that there might be someone better.

    And there are certainly other scenarios I’m not coming up with right now.

    Each one of these scenarios come with their own set of issues which we all carry and which all stem from our pasts, usually the way, way past.

    There isn’t a perfect relationship, for there isn’t such thing as a perfect person. I wouldn’t even know how to define this.

    For me there was a deep sort of knowing, yet with this knowing there was a lot of fear and uncertainty. My issues had me plunge ahead anyway knowing that regardless, there was something to learn here, something to grow from and blossom into. I don’t know that I was sure sure that K was truly my forever man for several years, and as time goes on, I know more and more at a no cellular level that he is my “the one”.

    I don’t know that there really is a sure fire way of knowing. Learning to hone your intuition and trust in this is likely an important piece.

    I hope this helps.


  243.  #243April Rose on August 23, 2015 at 11:50 am


    My first thought is, if you have to ask this question then he is probably not ‘the one’.

    You will know it when ‘your man’ is in front of you.

    Countless women describe an unusual feeling of ‘just knowing’ that this man is their future husband.

    It is beyond anything that our daily conscious mind can figure out.

  244.  #244April Rose on August 23, 2015 at 11:52 am

    And I love what Dominique said 🙂

  245.  #245Indigo on August 23, 2015 at 11:57 am


    Thank you so much. I was hoping you’d comment because I really wanted to know your perspective. And I’d totally agree with you that it’s a multi-faceted decision, informed by who we are uniquely and our life experiences.

    I love what you’ve said here:
    “For me there was a deep sort of knowing, yet with this knowing there was a lot of fear and uncertainty. My issues had me plunge ahead anyway knowing that regardless, there was something to learn here, something to grow from and blossom into. I don’t know that I was sure sure that K was truly my forever man for several years, and as time goes on, I know more and more at a no cellular level that he is my “the one”.”

    It occurred to me that as I date, and I have certain qualities that I want my future husband to possess, and certain ways that I want to feel, that I could potentially meet many men who fulfil these. And yet the more I think about it, the more elusive that something-something which I want my forever man to possess becomes. I want to be sure one day, and I wonder how I will be…

  246.  #246Indigo on August 23, 2015 at 12:06 pm

    April Rose 243,

    Yes this is it exactly.

    When I married my ex-husband, I remember so clearly thinking on my wedding day morning that I was about to make a mistake and that I shouldn’t be marrying him, but I went ahead with it anyway because I was so used to shutting this intuitive voice up and because the plans were too far gone and I didn’t want to cause any trouble or inconvenience.

    Contrast this with D whom I’ve felt from the first moment I spoke to him was the one and I felt and knew I wanted to marry him from that first second, and it’s a feeling that has never left me or been shaken, and yet in the end that did not translate into a relationship which had what it took to make it work or last.

    I look at my dating life ahead of me and I finally know what behaviour I want in a man and I trust myself to be able to choose it or inspire it and not settle for less, and I look at a sea of good guys and wonder what would make me say yes if any of them proposed? I’m with a great guy now and I wonder if he asked me to marry him, would I say yes?

    This is my way of saying I really, REALLY don’t know what my future holds. It’s all a big mystery and I guess that’s a bit exciting 🙂

  247.  #247April Rose on August 23, 2015 at 1:50 pm

    Yay Indigo!

    I love what you’re writing.

    And I believe it is TIME which shows us more about those ‘sea of good guys’.

    Time will show us which ones are consistent in their integrity, which ones add to our life MORE as time goes by, which ones have no stamina, and which ones are the rogues masquerading as good guys.

    And subtle things need time to reveal themselves – how a guy handles conflict, as in disagreements or when you both want different things. Keep an eye on ‘team development’ – do both of you have a handle on doing what’s best for the relationship rather than tryingto get your own way.

    Lots of things like that…

  248.  #248April Rose on August 23, 2015 at 3:10 pm


    Reading back over your post, I perceive a very subtle difference between knowing a man is your guy, and “I felt and knew I wanted to marry him from that first second”.

    The first example is simply a knowing. I remember Rori describing her moment of knowing that the man in front of her would become her husband. It all seemed quite dreamlike, and that she was kinda neutral towards him and surprised by the ‘knowing’.

    Your example appears to be based more on a desire, a pull, an attraction on your part. You say you knew you wanted to marry him. There was an instant and highly-charged desire.

    I’m struggling to find the words, yet I can feel the difference. There didn’t seem to be the desire on Rori’s part.

    Is there any sense in what I’m saying?

  249.  #249Labbit on August 23, 2015 at 3:17 pm

    231 Azure — Not quite yet. 🙂 My apartment lease expires on November 1, and we have agreed to move in together then!!! Tender is already living in our new apartment and having a blast. On the rare nights we do spend apart he’ll text me funny photos, like him going into the big master shower alone, or eating my favorite treats from the cabinet.

    Can I tell you…as excited as I am, I am also feeling so…scared, curious, about a million different things?!? We spend 5-6 nights together a week now so it won’t be all that different once we live together and yet it will be TOTALLY different in a way I can’t explain.

    I feel so very vulnerable right now, and it tugs at me. I am used to running away when things get too tough, when someone gets too close to my heart. I know I don’t want to run but I do feel myself shut down at times, sometimes at the end of dates where we’re saying goodnight I will feel myself get grumpy and put distance between us. Or Tender will say something and I’ll invent all kinds of hidden meanings about it in my head. There is constant temptation in me to jump into my masculine energy…to control and want things to be a certain way.

    And then when I can strip all of that away what I’m left with is a feeling of vulnerability. Just not knowing how things will go…and reminding myself to trust in me, in my intuition…in him…and feeling like I have no idea what I’m doing at all…and letting myself spin about a bit, and it all is OK…and to make mistakes and learn…and to not worry so much about getting it right…and to feel all spinny.

  250.  #250Labbit on August 23, 2015 at 3:23 pm


    I don’t really have an answer to your question about when the person you meet is the right one to marry…although I am forever curious about it myself! I love hearing stories from married couples about if they knew, when they knew, how they knew.

    As I get a little older though I’m still quite young, I find myself feeling more and more that these feelings of ‘knowing’ aren’t so important…and are often…mmm…not so much lies as perhaps ideas we set within ourselves at a much younger age, when our reality wasn’t so refined or vivid or enhanced?

    Sometimes the next step comes to us before we’re ready, and sometimes long after we’ve been ready. I have settled on the idea that if my answer is “Yes” in that moment, then it is the only way things could go, for better or for worse! That may sound fatalistic but it’s not meant to be…I feel much more confident in my ability to choose a man who will treat me well, who I’m compatible with and not afraid to be myself around, warts and all. So it’s almost a natural step to take and there’s not much thinking about it to do. As much fear as surrounds it, that fear is mostly just old ideas anyway. In reality it’s all very comfortable and kind of flows on its own.

  251.  #251Zia on August 23, 2015 at 5:45 pm

    #239 Indigo – I knew before he proposed that I would say yes if he proposed. I remember when we first started seeing each other, he asked if we could make things official (facebook official too) before I was ready. I told him I wasn’t ready and he respected that. The way he respected that made me change my mind less than a day later. I knew I was in love with him before he told me “I love you” for the first time. And I knew I’d say yes if he asked me to marry him before he proposed to me 🙂

  252.  #252IamHis on August 23, 2015 at 6:38 pm

    @237 Marie – I can SO relate to this, & I love your anger, because I feel like I have felt it too.

    I always used to want to test men out to make sure they were “strong enough” for me, & could “handle me,” because I am a very strong, independent woman, or, at least I used to feel like one.

    Rori’s tools are so much about honesty and vulnerability. Instead of “testing a man’s strength” you kind of test out your own strength, by admitting emotions you would normally hide to man.

    Examples would be “I feel embarrassed, I feel scared, I feel lonely, I feel sad.”

    I have found that “weaker men” can’t even handle that kind of honesty, & stronger men swoop into protect, although my relational reality is currently being rocked, admittedly…

  253.  #253IamHis on August 23, 2015 at 6:44 pm

    I wrote a long comment that disappeared….ughhghh!

    @240 April Rose – it felt so good to read you describing me as having “gorgeous innocence.” Thank you.

  254.  #254Lovergirl on August 23, 2015 at 8:57 pm

    Sapphire 222-

    Thanks. I feel you are right that I will hear from him again. I guess I need to pay attention to the lessons I am learning.

  255.  #255Lovergirl on August 23, 2015 at 9:02 pm

    My computer has been in the.shop for.the past few days and will be.for several more. I feel frustrated posting from my phone. So much I want to comment on andsay but its too much of a pain to type on my phone. Grrr…

    In more positive news, im doing even better at work!! I made a sale for $32,000 and one for $19,000. I can’t believe I am doing so well when ive only been working a couple months. The bosses are sitting here asking ME how I am.doing it at meetings,.lol. Im definitely on a high from that :).

  256.  #256Indigo on August 23, 2015 at 11:38 pm

    April Rose 247 – Yes, all of these things are so important – integrity, handling conflict, working as a team… So important to me. And yet, is there something which sets one guy who can do these things apart from another who can?

    I know what you are saying, but it wasn’t a desire on my part to marry D. Not the kind of desire that is born of instant chemical attraction anyway. So perhaps “wanted” is the wrong word. It was just a knowing. It’s not something which was particularly convenient for me, and it’s a sense that has never left me even though I’ve tried very hard to let it go and move on from it, and would have made my life a lot easier if it wasn’t there. It’s not something I can rationally explain or something I feel I have any control. He just got under my skin in that way and I can’t explain it. It feels weird to me talking about it because I’m a rational creature, and yet some things happen to me that I both cannot explain and cannot deny. Thank you for your thoughts.

    Labbit – I love this! “I have settled on the idea that if my answer is “Yes” in that moment, then it is the only way things could go, for better or for worse!”

    Zia – that’s truly wonderful 🙂

  257.  #257Victoria on August 24, 2015 at 12:09 am

    With regards to knowing he is the one, I think it is all a construction in our OWN mind, around a basic genetic fit/aka physical attraction 🙂 plus a projection of your own values, dreams and plans for the future. This is the long way of saying that “he is the one” only if YOU choose him to be. And, he may be the One RIGHT NOW but then later on, when you/he grow he may no longer be.
    So, I think you were correct in your feeling that D. was the one at the time when you felt it. You are no longer the same person and he probably has lost status, but this can not change how you saw him at first. Do you miss him?

  258.  #258Indigo on August 24, 2015 at 1:35 am


    I miss him a lot, but also feel completely resigned.

  259.  #259Victoria on August 24, 2015 at 5:03 am

    @ Azure 232
    Thank you for asking about me. All is cool with R., I actually do not dare tell much when things are fine, I am kind of supersticious, normally I write here when I am under stress and it has been very helpful to share and get feedback.
    About F., I still feel bad about cutting him off. I think he did not believe it at first (I have broken up with him a few times in the past but then every time I went back to him). I think he thought I am just going through one of my “phases” and all will be cool eventually. And, at a certain point in time it dawned on him that I am really gone… The irony is that this time he has not done anything wrong (except for doing numerous small things wrong for an extended period of time). I never told him the things he did wrong… I mean, I told him, but I never told him “and this will be a deal-breaker” and actually, these things were NOT dealbreakers until I saw that IT IS POSSIBLE to have a very easy-going relationship with another man who is very take-charge and a good planner.
    How have you been?

  260.  #260Labbit on August 24, 2015 at 5:24 am


    I have felt a great unraveling these last couple of weeks of a knot that was tied up so tight inside of me…it is still unraveling, but I want to share in the hopes that it may help someone here now or down the road just like I’ve been helped so much by the conversations here now and from the past.

    I had noticed a pattern in my relationship with Tender where I would start to feel like he was pulling away, and then great amounts of anxiety would flood me to the point where I could barely function. Whether he pulled away or not had little effect on me — once the cycle of anxiety started I found it nearly impossible to cope with and nothing he said or did could lift me out of the anxiety, I would just struggle with it for a week or two until it subsided seemingly on its own.

    What’s funny is that there were times where Tender would pull away, need some man space or cave time
    or whatever, and these times would barely bother me at all. So I became very curious…what was the difference? Why was I falling into a deep pit of anxiety sometimes and not others? I became a detective of me so to speak…

    I started following the anxiety backwards. Instead of panicking when it hit…well, I still panicked but I also started trying to think back on what had happened in the last few days in my life. What I discovered after a few times falling into the pit is that although it had felt to me like Tender was pulling away…it was actually ME who was pulling away!

    Usually it would go something like this: Tender and I would have an incredibly intimate moment in which I accessed my vulnerability, fully opening myself up to him. And then some old system in my mind would start rambling about how I did it wrong, or if his reaction wasn’t exactly what I thought it should be, my mind would start freaking out that I was going to lose him. Sometimes even if the moments of vulnerability went perfectly my defense system would STILL kick in, and I’d close up without realizing it at first.

    I would only start to notice that things seemed off when I couldn’t connect with Tender as we usual do for a few days, and I’d assume it was something with him…which then of course started me into a loop of anxious thinking. Feeling unlovable. Then I’d fall into the pit.

    Indigo you totally nailed it as you’ve been pointing out my perfectionist tendencies to me, I see that this anxiety comes out of that, out of feeling like vulnerability has be done a certain way and experienced a certain way or it is wrong. Me wanting to control the moment, really out of a deep-seated fear of being unlovable. Being afraid to make any mistake…feeling like every bit of my relationship with Tender has to unfold a certain way for it to be ‘right’ and ‘good’.

    I see that when I go into this anxious headspace, my vibe changes from radiant goddess to a child who needs to be taken care of. Seeking validation from others, feeling unsure of each step I take, wanting to give up my own agency and let someone else make the decisions for me. I’m sure this behavior started for me as a child…though that’s not so important as it is to simply see how I behave now and know that I have the power and ability to change it.

    Although I’m still not sure what the answer is when I feel myself start to close up yet…I’m delighted that I can see this pattern within myself! I realize I have to give myself permission to make mistakes, to be vulnerable and flow with however that unfolds…and on a deeper level I see the need to be kinder to myself and my own heart, to stop telling myself how unlovable I am and open up instead so the love can flow in…and yet to hear that small voice that says I’m unlovable, not try to stop it but not believe it either…

    To have greater compassion for myself overall I guess. Something that feels warm and makes me glow…

  261.  #261Labbit on August 24, 2015 at 5:59 am

    Or to put it another way, it’s the difference between allowing myself to fall into a cycle of wondering ‘Did I do that right?’ Or ‘I wonder what he thought about tonight’ or ‘Uh oh he hasn’t responded to my text from the other day, what did I do wrong???’ To just going, ‘oh wow, I feel really vulnerable right now!’ and then just allowing that vulnerability room to flow around inside of me, loving on any other feelings that come up with it.

  262.  #262Azure Blu on August 24, 2015 at 6:47 am

    Labbit #260
    Thank you for this lovely sharing of your journey…
    I too have been and am helped soooo much
    by other Sirens growth and changes!

    What you have written does sound like what I experience when emotional closeness goes
    beyond what I am able to handle…

    Going to vulnerability…

    This is a great reminder that my emotional closeness
    muscle is sooooo much stronger than it used to be
    and it can grow and grow as I learn the right exercises!!

  263.  #263IamHis on August 24, 2015 at 6:48 am

    Love this quote so much:

    “The pain of unmet desire can actually enlarge our hearts. The more we let ourselves long for life, even though it brings the ache of incompleteness, the more we are actually able to savor the joy that comes our way. More and more, I recognize this kind of pain for what it is–a ticket to becoming a woman so thoroughly alive that she is afraid of almost nothing.”
    -Paula Rinehart

  264.  #264Indigo on August 24, 2015 at 8:45 am

    Labbit 260,

    I relate to every bit of what you’ve written here. The reason I was able to point out your perfectionist tendencies, is that I am exactly the same way myself! Every single part of what you write here, I have experienced and still experience myself.

    I am the kind of independent woman who can happily let a man pull away for hours in my presence, or days at a time, and not be phased at all… yet let it come at the wrong time and all hell breaks loose inside me! Then of course I’d panic, because the feeling is very scary. In the past I used to just share all of this with the man in one way or the other, pushing him and stopping just short of blaming him for how I was feeling. Nowadays, with much practice and lots of working on myself gently and lovingly, I am much more circumspect. I still find a conversation with the man to let him know how I’m feeling can be very helpful *at times*. With Dominique’s guidance and much practice I have learned to more and more take a step back and take some time to myself, and to recognise that this is a sign of something calling for attention inside me.

    I’ve got to know myself so well by doing this… the most helpful thing has been for me to realise what I am actually doing or feeling. For example, sometimes it’s my angry, frustrated self and I just need to kind of pay her some attention, give her a hug and let her know that it’s ok to feel that way. Sometimes I am feeling overwhelmed and overstimulated and I need some rest and downtime. Sometimes I’m withdrawing from intimacy out of uncertainty or fear.

    I don’t have to have “answers” to any of these things per se, I just need to acknowledge and feel them.

    Letting go of control is a big one for me, as it is for you. Letting go of the need to have a situation or relationship unfold exactly as I have it in my mind. Most of the time I do not even realise I’m doing it, until I catch myself feeling frustrated. Other people’s ways can be very unique and interesting and beautiful… but of course trusting them, and trusting that those who love you are not about to up and leave you, is hard.

  265.  #265IamHis on August 24, 2015 at 9:54 am

    For any woman who WANTS marriage from a man she is “sexually exclusive” with, I thought this quote from Paula Rinehart’s book, “Sex and the Soul of a Woman” was very eye-opening:

    “These are the top reasons men gave for preferring to cohabit with a romantic partner–and why, if women will let them, they prefer to audition for marriage rather than take the manly leap:

    -they had the convenience of a regular sex partner they did not have to search for–she was just there waiting
    -There was someone to take care of the house and the dog when he was away
    -He felt “less answerable to a partner”; he could come and go as he pleased.
    -His financial assets were better protected.
    -A live-in girlfriend was his “best option for now,” allowing him time to look for the ideal soul mate.


    So many women want marriage, but lower their degree of difficulty and settle for less!

    If you want more, demand more!!!!!!!

  266.  #266Indigo on August 24, 2015 at 10:08 am

    Sorry IamHis, I take serious exception to this post of yours 265.

    “If you want more, demand more!!!!!!!” Seriously? Since when do sirens demand of a man? I’d like someone to point out one single scenario where this has worked out well with a masculine man.

    I absolutely and completely feel that if a woman wants marriage she should hold out for that, as I plan to do… but the answer is walking away from a man who doesn’t want marriage, not “demanding” or refusing to live with him under any circumstances. Many *women* in fact choose living together because it is what THEY want before marriage – you are free of course to choose not to live with a man before getting married to him, but many women choose to know what they are getting themselves into and want to see what a man is like to live with, and what they are like together in the same house and if it works, before making that big commitment and this is perfectly valid. Stating that it lowers your degree of difficulty is just, I don’t know, totally off to me.

  267.  #267Labbit on August 24, 2015 at 10:34 am

    Azure, Indigo thank you both for your posts. Indigo I love what you’ve responded with…more great food for thought for me. Thank you. 🙂

    IamHis — I love the quote you shared in 263! To the book you’ve quoted from 265, I am sure there are SOME cases where this is true. But to me this speaks to the immaturity of the men in the relationship, not to some lack of Siren-ness on the woman’s part. If a man isn’t ready to get married he’s not ready, and while I do believe that meeting the right woman can inspire him to move towards readiness at the end of the day it’s up to him whether he wants to move things forward or not. A woman always has the choice to stay or go. That women left these situations — to me that’s not bad, that’s good and shows they weren’t willing to settle for what they didn’t want!

    I have been engaged twice. Once I lived with my then-fiance both before and after we got engaged. Our relationship ended because I realized I was with an abusive man. Was it my fault for moving in with him? God I hope not. The other man I never lived with, even while we were engaged. We realized we wanted different things out of life and parted amicably — we are actually still friends. Would things have turned out any differently if we’d lived together? Doubt it.

    If what the book says feels true for you then yes, go for that! Personally I know that for me, being engaged before living together FEELS right…but I’m about to move in Tender in a couple of months and we won’t be engaged yet. I have no fears that living with him is somehow going to lead him to take advantage of me. I believe very strongly that you can’t do it wrong with the right guy, but also that you can’t do it perfectly to make the wrong guy the right guy. I believe these authors are doing their best to guide women looking for answers, but sometimes I read false causalities. It leads me to take to heart what feels true to me, and let the rest slide away.

    Every relationship is different, has made me feel different ways about milestones and things that are important to me. I feel that finding your inner voice that tells you what is true for you is the most important thing — and even that voice changes from time to time. 🙂

  268.  #268Labbit on August 24, 2015 at 10:38 am

    Oh and also, I am learning that it’s totally OK to not know. Like, is Tender my One? I really don’t know yet. Part of me feels like I SHOULD know, like we’ve been together long enough and the answer should be clear…and maybe if I don’t feel that he is then he’s not ‘the One.’ But I kind of reject that too, all I know is that things feel great with him right now and I am healing so much inside of me, but is he the man I want in my life 2 years from now? 5 years? 25 years? I just don’t know yet. And I am not ready to make a stand either way. I’m just flowing along…

  269.  #269Indigo on August 24, 2015 at 11:08 am


    Yes! It’s totally ok to not know! Where is it written that we have to know? I don’t know yet and I’m totally fine with it!

  270.  #270Labbit on August 24, 2015 at 11:53 am

    Indigo re-reading your 264 I am struck by your last paragraph…

    Yes, I am finding trusting Tender to be VERY hard at times! How does one ease into this I wonder? It is something he will even say to me sometimes, “Can you just trust me, Labbit?” Sometimes he says it with frustration…I can tell it bothers him but it is one of my quirks that he tolerates, just as I tolerate his.

    I’m sure that I’m better at trusting than I was in the past, but I’m also pretty sure that I’m still not very good at it. 🙂 This is a part of feminine energy, the accepting, the being present part, that is a struggle for me. I wonder how I can let myself get more into that trusting space? Because I do trust MYSELF — or is that a lie that I tell myself? I guess I don’t really know.

    Interesting musings for a Monday.

  271.  #271Dominique on August 24, 2015 at 12:07 pm

    Labbit – 260 – I feel SO proud of you for this. True bringing things back to you in its most pure and wonderful form, and look what you discovered!!! There really is no one else in this but you. As your ever shifting and changing feelings and emotions shift and change, so does the rest of the world with all the people in it. They may or may not have shifted and changed, but it will seem this way because of you and how YOU feel in any given moment.

    I know exactly what you’re speaking of in regards to Tender. I can think of numerous times where I have felt the same, sure K was being withdrawn, moody, upset, when it was me and only me. And even when it is the man, when you’re able to stay in a clear and clean place within (as best as you can anyway), you can see what he’s doing for what it is and not take it personally, not think it’s a reflection ON you. But as you’ve experienced, it could be a reflection OF you when the clarity and peaceful place inside feels shaken for whatever reason.

    That was a very long winded way to say, YAY YOU!!!, and you’re awesome.


  272.  #272IamHis on August 24, 2015 at 12:08 pm

    Labbit – 263 and 265 actually come from the same book.

    I like what you said about it being a woman’s decision to stay or go. I just wish more women would go in these situations…

  273.  #273Dominique on August 24, 2015 at 12:10 pm

    Oh and another thing Labbit, I think you’re totally ready to start turning TO Tender when you’re feeling vulnerable even when he’s seemingly the cause. When you feel ready to try this, let me know. I would love to help, to guide you in this.

    Love to you.


  274.  #274Labbit on August 24, 2015 at 12:41 pm

    Dominique — Thank you!!! For both of your posts. I have started, little by little, letting Tender in to my super vulnerable moments. Right now I will usually just plainly say “And I feel really vulnerable now!” after an especially intimate moment.

    Yes, I feel that I’m getting very close to our next round of coaching…just settling on exactly where I want to look within myself at this time. I would love your help in coming up with some more scripts for when I feel vulnerable and want to turn to him. Probably a few more weeks and I’ll be ready. Maybe sooner. 🙂

  275.  #275Labbit on August 24, 2015 at 12:47 pm

    IamHis — I can see from how the outside it might look like a woman is settling or asking for less than she deserves, but in my mind I think it’s very rarely that clear-cut. There is a perception I read a lot where people say that men are more immature than they used to be. It could be true…but I think it’s more that we have greater communication around the world now thanks to the internet and people are sharing a lot more private information than they used to. I am quite sure that men like this have ALWAYS been around, that these situations have always existed. I can think of my grandmother’s sister, who in the 1920s lived with a man that she didn’t end up marrying — heresy in that time, and yet many of her friends did the same thing. And my great aunt did end marrying happily. 🙂

    From what I’ve experienced, we end up in the situations we want or need to help us learn and grow. If we extract ourselves too early, we don’t learn the lesson and are doomed to repeat it. Every woman is on her own journey…and yes, I TOTALLY judge others myself at times, want to tell them what to do or how to act. Sometimes I do tell them those things…but the truth is I only have power over myself, and it isn’t really my job to worry about anyone else or the path they’re on. I can offer insight when it has value but otherwise it isn’t my place to step in. (Though sometimes I can’t help myself, I’m only human!!)

  276.  #276Azure Blu on August 24, 2015 at 1:08 pm

    Rori wrote:
    This is all about Overfunctioning.
    …”We are so accustomed to the idea of nurturing being feminine, we get confused.

    We think being loving to our men is nurturing them. Massaging their bodies, minds and spirits. Picking up after them… cooking for them… driving to them…
    There is nothing wrong with the idea of nurturing –
    it’s the form our nurturing takes
    that causes so much difficulty.

    We are all composed of masculine and feminine (yin and yang) energies.
    We move through them fluidly at our best,
    and are stuck in one or the other at our worst.

    Too often, many of us find ourselves stuck at one extreme or the other.
    We either GIVE and DO too much all the time and then find ourselves RESENTFUL and ANGRY
    all the time,
    and then make ourselves emotionally unavailable
    to our dates,
    our husbands, our boyfriends,
    and every man we meet.

    Too often, our nurturing energies
    are perceived by men as MOTHERING.

    Our actions seem intrusive.
    We seem to be JUDGING THEN
    and finding them coming up short –
    otherwise why would they need taking care of?
    On the other hand,
    they love attention. Don’t we all?

    To strike some sort of BALANCE when we are all so mightily out of balance,
    I’m asking you to PULL BACK TO ZERO.

    To at least imagine pulling back to zero.
    The baby steps you actually take may seem huge.
    When you stop doing for your man
    what he doesn’t need you to do,
    yet has grown accustomed to you doing
    and may resent you not doing
    (even though he’ll certainly find himself relieved
    that you’ve stopped doing them),
    things may get messy
    before they get better.
    But they will get better!!!

    This is all about Overfunctioning. What does Overfunctioning and Overnurturing look like in YOUR love life?
    Let me know! Love, Rori”

  277.  #277Sapphire on August 24, 2015 at 2:12 pm

    Labbit 260 and Indigo 264
    A big shift in me tonight reading your comments
    Need to reread and digest

    Thank you

    Sapphire x

  278.  #278Leela on August 24, 2015 at 3:25 pm

    ….Feeling messages…They feel good and scary to me at the same time. I feel scared that a guy will perceive me as weird if I use a lot of feeling messages because it’s such an uncommon way to communicate…. I generally have a fear that people will perceive me as someone weird. Do I think I’m weird?

    Many men find me attractive but they rarely try to get close. They rarely approach me. They just like to look and stare at me…The message might be that I love my self only on the surface, but deep down do I really love myself? I don’t know… Maybe I only love my looks.

    >But do I love myself for who I am? Inside?

    >Do I believe I am indeed a wonderful creature who has so much to give to this world?

    > Do I praise myself?

    > Do I really care for who I am, do I care about my emotions?

    > DO I CARE ABOUT WHAT FEELS GOOD TO ME AND GIVE THAT TO ME? Do I even know what feels good to me???

    > Do I care enough to walk away from what doesn’t feel good to me? DO I even know what doesn’t feel good to me???

    > Do I really want to know me inside out or do I think it’s too messy and I keep a distance instead?

    > Can I love my ugly parts?

    Or do I really think that the only thing I got is my looks?

    I’ve got so many things to work at that’s for sure. And look for more messages and take action to fulfill myself right from the inside!

  279.  #279Millie on August 24, 2015 at 8:58 pm

    Labbit 260 wow this is amazing!!!!
    What a revelation! I can see this is myself as well…..

  280.  #280Millie on August 24, 2015 at 10:52 pm

    Well, I think I’m over beating myself about what happened with M. I can’t really explain why… But it seems instead of my body pulling itself to that dark place, I find myself resisting it…wanting to BE happy in where I am going and what I’m doing. I decided not to online date anymore, but redirect my energy to the outside world and see what happens. As much as I want that relationship again, I know it’s not going to happen when I want it to… So I’m letting go and not focusing on trying to date or just trying at all. I just miss the physical a lot too… I’m hoping I don’t have to go on some crazy hiatus, but patience is really the key probably.

  281.  #281Dominique on August 25, 2015 at 7:01 am

    Millie – 280 – Add in a little kindness and gentleness, and you totally have this. 🙂

    Love to you.


  282.  #282Aurora on August 25, 2015 at 7:59 am

    @276 Azure Blue
    Thanks for posting Rori’s reminder to Waterfall. I needed to hear that too.
    I haven’t been on this blog for couple years. Things have been going well up until these past few months.
    New guy for 1 1/2 yrs, local, not LD, still active in my personal life and CDing “friends” but lots of energy into this one relationship, so many shared values and good things….but this past year things have flared up with his ex (div since mid 90s) in regards to the care of their only son (who is 19 with special needs). What a mess. It has consumed much of his time and energy to the point it is compromising our relationship. I have been supportive, very supportive and perhaps overfunctioning now that I think of it. Have brought it up and shared feeling messages this past year but in recent weeks it’s escalated. He has to sort this out on his own and “get his corner cleaned up” and decide whether he practically has time and emotional availability to keep giving to a relationship. I was starting to feel it was one sided. I was listening to his wishful thinking that things would get better and then we’d have the same convos over and over. The decision to lean back is hard but I know I have to. I have shared my hope that he finds answers and my sadness if he cannot. I have focused on spending time with my young adult children, my garden, my work etc to keep my mind from ruminating.

    Just needed to post this. For myself, for the record. Need to reassure my inner girl that I’m looking after her.

    Have missed you all. Will read up on what’s going on with all of you in the next while…..

  283.  #283Labbit on August 25, 2015 at 12:11 pm

    Sapphire, Millie, everyone really, I am feeling delighted that what I’m processing is connecting for you too…I know that what I’m saying is nothing new, certainly I have read it from the brilliant coaches here. Reading about it and understanding it intellectually is one thing…then experiencing it is another thing, it brings everything I’ve read home.

    I feel there is a pleasant shift taking place inside of me right now. I feel myself moving into a new, deeper level of feminine energy on a consistent basis and I am reveling in it! When I can nail it, it feels so right and SO GOOD!!! The challenge for me at this time lies in the path to getting here not always feeling comfortable to me, in fact the actions I need to take and the behaviors I choose to follow often feel very UNcomfortable. And that is hard for me to reconcile…I want to trust my gut and yet at times my gut (or maybe it’s my ego, I dunno) is leading me down a very masculine-energy road, away from connection with Tender.

    So I can catch it now better than in the past, and sometimes I can even pivot and go down the feminine-energy road instead. Yet while I am first walking that f-e road, it feels so weird. I feel shaky and nervous, like I’m pulling off some kind of trick and no one can know about it. I bounce back and forth between feeling super calm and very radiant, my inner light shining light a strong moonbeam, and like the trickster who needs to conceal the rabbit under her hat.

    And there is also a bit of feeling like, well if I do this feminine energy thing right I should always get my way, shouldn’t I? Even though I know that’s not the case. I suppose in time this will all start to feel more natural to me. Right now it’s low-level anxiety inducing. MUCH better than the deep anxiety I was feeling though!

    Earlier today I had another lesson in choosing the feminine-energy path, making new habits in place of the old ineffective masculine-energy ones. Tender and I have a date every Friday nite, it’s one of our promises to each other and helps keep things light, fresh and interesting. Unfortunately Tender’s father has taken ill and he wants to go home to see his Dad on Friday eve. When he told me, of course I understand so I played it off lightly that he was missing out. He tentatively offered Thursday instead…but I could tell he wasn’t too into it. There was a lot of ‘well I’d have to shift around this and that and we wouldn’t have as long as we usually do and I can’t say yes quite yet.’ I have to admit I was hoping that Tender would firmly reschedule the date for tomorrow eve or Thursday.

    I could feel that masculine control energy coming up in me — this voice in my head saying ‘BUT WHAT IF WE NEVER HAVE ANOTHER DATE NO IT HAS TO BE THIS WEEK!’ Ha. So I sunk down into my body, felt the tension in my jaw and worked with it til it released, and I felt calmer. Then I felt good and knew what to say. I told him it would feel great to have our date a night early but if it was too much maybe we should wait. He said let’s wait.

    And although I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t disappointed…it’s still so much easier to take his no for an answer. I don’t feel the need to ask for another set date now the way I often have. I won’t say I love it that we’ll miss our date and I do still feel the urge to control, but it is much less. I can deal. Truly I totally get it…there’s just a part of me that still wants my way. 😉

    More reading to do to support me in this new direction and deepening…

  284.  #284Labbit on August 25, 2015 at 12:13 pm

    Aurora — Sending you lots of strength and loving vibes!! This sounds difficult but in a way it’s so beautiful that he is telling you his truth…you must be an incredible Siren.

  285.  #285Aurora on August 25, 2015 at 12:38 pm

    Thank you for the support, I really need it. I am use to giving it away…..lol the overfunctioning side of me again. It was my insistence that he sort out his issues….my masculine energy perhaps speaking……he kept putting off the dealing with things…..stalling and biding his time the past months until things have reached a “head”. I expressed to him my feelings that he was pre occupied with his son’s issues, his ex wife’s harassing texts and calls and in person comments to him. Even when we would spend time he would be off in his thoughts and ruminating, or taking texts and calls from his ex. I felt his boundaries weren’t great and expressed my frustration at the intrusions. He would often say “I don’t know what to do” and tends to be passive in his ways with others “seeing what happens” and “wishing it would work out”. I think I have been speaking my truth and I feel nervous about that. I have been feeling left out and lonely and not connected and finally had to call him on these things. He says he wants things to work out and wants to be with me, but it just seems like he’s drowning in his past. I want him to sort things out and decide what he needs to do. I feel sad. I feel selfish in my request. But I can’t see moving forward without him doing “his” work to be emotionally and socially available. I am leaning back….not easy to sit with the unknown.

    I don’t feel like an incredible Siren…..I feel righteous, heady, sad, nervous drawing lines in the sand……. oh yucky feelings to have to sink into

    Thank you for listening…….

  286.  #286Labbit on August 25, 2015 at 12:40 pm

    I do wish this wasn’t all quite so hard for me. I wish I’d grown up in a house where the masculine-feminine dynamic was ideal to what I want in my own relatinship. I wish I’d had more goddess energy around me so I knew what it felt and looked like, instead of the masculine-energy combativeness I grew up in. (I love my parents very much, this is not meant as an attack towards them.) Or I wish I was one of those woman for whom this was all so innate, not such a struggle and challenge to reprogram inside of me.

    At times I feel myself just wanting to throw in the towel — take charge and find a man I can run the relationship with…until I remember that would make me even LESS happy than I am now, often clueless and not sure which way to go. I am used to things I want coming easy…and this has not been easy.

  287.  #287Labbit on August 25, 2015 at 12:44 pm

    285 Aurora — Whenever I feel unsure what to do a specific man, I just remind myself that it’s the FEELINGS I’m after…not any one man in particular. It is a great act of bravery to move towards those feelings, whatever actions they entail, whether it’s taking amazing care of yourself or dating more men or finding hobbies to fill you up or whatever.

    This man may very well step up but it sounds like at the moment he’s not in the mindset to give you what you want. That’s no failure on your part…you didn’t do anything wrong. You have all the power in deciding what you want to do…there is no wrong step for you to take! And if you are not sure what to do there is nothing wrong with staying where you are until the answer becomes clear, because it will. 🙂

  288.  #288April Rose on August 25, 2015 at 2:05 pm


    It sounds as if your head is hurting as well as your heart.

    It occurred to me, reading your post, that there may be some over-thinking of his problems on your part.
    As sirens, if a man is having issues, all we need to do and say to him is “I have faith in you and I know you wil work it out”.
    We do not need to have any dealings with the content of his issues. i.e. they could be family, work or other problems and our response is the same – “I know you’ve got this, honey”

    AND THEN…. off we happily go to do gorgeous things in our life, and FORGET about him and his issues. Really live the idea that you trust him to fix things. Have no involvement WHATSOEVER, not even listening to him unload or talk about thie issue (it would be too tempting for our heads to get involved – either as fixer, rescuer, nurturer or whatever).

    If he tries to discuss things with you, simply re-iterate “I know you will work this out, my love. You are so resourceful/capable/smart” and then change the subject. To something poetic and happy-feeling about the moment you are in, and your surroundings.

    If a phone call should interrupt your time together, simply stand up, squeeze him on the shoulder and smile at him before you WALK AWAY so that he can have privacy on the call. Then let him come find you when he’s finished.

    I really think this is key. Is so stress-relieving, AND creates more attraction between a man and a woman.

    He gets to feel SO GOOD that you trust him to run his life.
    He gets to feel that you will go off and do happy things when he is immersed in his problem, and that will make him seek you out.

    It is not your problem. It is his. Sooo… don’t even let it into your siren space.

    It feels powerful and loving to consider this an option.

  289.  #289Mandy on August 25, 2015 at 2:09 pm

    Awww. I just saw Dominique’s post about not focusing on if you “messed up”.

    I could just hear Dominique’s soothing voice reading the text and I instantly melted it was so soothing. I wanted to stop by and say thanks Dominique, and how effective just a little of it was. (I couldn’t post it on sexandheart because for some reason my IP address was blocked but I emailed the webmaster to unblock it.) But I wanted to also say Rori has the same effect, some people just have…this ring to their voice, this vibration, this calming demeanor. My dad is one, Dominique is one, Rori is one, and I very much gravitate towards these types because they are so soothing to be around, lol. Maybe in order to see if they can teach me to cultivate it more myself.

    I just want to mention…my own Psychiatrist told me…yes I have been raised to be VERY strong and even hard and cold on some issues, BUT, it’s VERY important I keep my soft side. Those were his exact words!

    Can you see how important it is for your health to keep your soft side and let it flourish?

    You know, when I haven’t posted in awhile, I really miss you gals.

    SIRENS! 😀

  290.  #290April Rose on August 25, 2015 at 2:46 pm


    I just realised I went into full advice-giving mode with Aurora!

    Maybe it really is time I took the RRRCT training.

    I feel surprised! I didn’t ‘think’ I enjoyed advice mode.

    Yet… it feels FUN!!!

    I feel giggly.

  291.  #291Lovergirl on August 25, 2015 at 5:24 pm

    My computer is still in the shop and my allergies are acting up so not feeling great at all. I saw RadioCD last night and was disappointed. He had been talking about how he was going to “make it up” to me that he disappeared at the ball game. That didnt happen, he didnt even make me dinner like he said he was going to. He said he got home late and was too tired. We just watched tv and hung out. No sex even, as I was still on my period, though we messed around a little. My birthday is coming up and he hasnt mentioned doing anything for that either, even though he knows. Boo!!

    S called me today. I didn’t answer but finally texted back “whats up?” He said he just wanted to see how I was doing. I said great and told him how well Im doing at my new job. He seemed excited for me and said he was glad to see me being successful. I just said thanks. Then he was like have a good rest of your day Lovergirl. (He used my name, which felt kind of like he was trying to be affectionate). I didn’t respond to that.

    Its kind of hard hearing from him because it makes me miss him more and also brings up all the painful feelings of him saying he didn’t want to hear from me again. Its confusing.

  292.  #292Lovergirl on August 25, 2015 at 5:43 pm

    Im kind of worried that all my focus on work lately is super masculine energy and that I will lose touch with my more feminine side. I like being competitive and driven and being able to control what happens at work. In my relationships though, I definitely dont want to end up being “the man”.

  293.  #293linda on August 25, 2015 at 5:53 pm

    So many great comments and deep things being processed. Wow, I am no where near where many of you are. I feel small and clueless in comparison. When I look at the relationships of my past I feel sad that none have led to happiness. I want a relationship but am sick to death of men with issues.

    I feel stuck. I cant seem to find the energy to get myself out there again. I have lost my mojo and confidence. I have hoped and worked for much and I keep falling short. These are not gremlin voices… it is the honest truth and I am clueless how to get out of this rut. I have this low rumble inside me. It feels like anger with teeth.

  294.  #294mary on August 25, 2015 at 9:02 pm


    i’m just breezing with my pitiful scenario to see if anyone has anything to say:

    * i was in a relationship with a guy for too long

    * he was a flirt and he had an anger problem and our values were very different

    * i kept going back to him because i got charmed by him, because i had a hard time saying no to his casual requests to get together, and because i was lonely

    * i actually moved OUT OF THE COUNTRY for a while to spend time with my family and put some distance between us

    * of course he called all the time and still considered that we were together – a year went by


    * i loved talking to him on the phone

    * my lawyer called and said i should move back so I could get citizenship

    * i moved, but i didn’t contact him (my ex) and i didn’t let him know where i lived

    * almost a year went by

    * my daughter and son-in-law came to visit

    * my son-in-law liked my ex and asked if i would mind if they went fishing together

    * i said yes, i would mind and that idea was just OUT

    * then I thought about what a great dad he was, (my son-in-law) and a good husband to my daughter, and they have a challenged child, and he is just such a great man, and i really love him

    * THEN my ex called, out of the blue. he said, “i know we’re not together! i know you don’t want to be together! but are you driving around right now?” and I was… and he said, “oh wow, i just did some great things to my yard and i was thinking about you and just HOPING you could come by for JUST A MINUTE and see what i’ve done!”

    * so i went by.

    * and he asked about my kids, and i told him about my son-in-law requesting a fishing trip

    * and he looked at me and said, “don’t you think he deserves A DAY? LET ME GIVE IT TO HIM! this has nothing to do with you and me.”

    * i expected them to be out until midnight, but they got in early. and of course they wanted to eat the catch of the day. i said NO to hosting it at my house… but my daughter thought it was inappropriate, so i said OKAY.

    * so he came over and we had a family time together and he was charming and handsome and i’ve been so lonely, and i’d missed him so much… it was so nice to see him…

    * the kids left and he wanted to get together to “just talk…”

    * so we’ve spent about two weeks doing things together, and hashing through our differences, and last night, we were on the phone, and his anger got sparked, and he started in on me, like he used to, and was lecturing me for a few hours, about NOTHING, and i told him i didn’t want to be with him any more… and he hung up on me…

    * so this morning, i felt badly about that. maybe i wasn’t being kind… maybe his feelings were hurt, and i emailed him.

    * he emailed back and said he really wanted to get married and go into the sunset together, etc…

    oh my.

    it seems that now i have to break up with him AGAIN!

    it’s bordering on the ridiculous.

    and i’m soooo embarrassed to even be in this situation!

    does anyone have any ideas? he called just now and invited me to go to a concert. i have something of his that i need to return, and i thought i might go over and put it on his porch, with a note that says that being with him is just not the right thing for me…

    i find that breaking up is just the worst! i never want to hurt anyone’s feelings! it’s so difficult!

    : (

    any thoughts? i guess i’ve done this to myself! (and him!)

  295.  #295mary on August 25, 2015 at 9:05 pm

    oops! i meant “breezing IN”

  296.  #296Indigo on August 25, 2015 at 10:05 pm

    April Rose,

    I really like the advice that you have given to Aurora in 288. This is what I’ve been doing with Bike and I agree it lessens the pressure.

  297.  #297Indigo on August 25, 2015 at 10:12 pm


    My thoughts are that you’ve handled this in the way that felt most true to you, and thus there is nothing more really to “do” or regret. You gave it and him an honest shot. I fully hear you on not wanting to hurt people’s feelings by breaking up with them. Maybe you can also consider not hurting yourself? He honestly sounds like he is confused about what he wants and that is nothing you can do for him… he needs to sort that out himself.

    The only other thought I had is that I noticed in your post where you had put down a couple of boundaries, which is a good thing, and then you ended up going back on them. There is nothing wrong with that per se, but I do feel that these provide clues on where we might be allowing ourselves to be drawn into situations that don’t necessarily feel good or right to us.

    Good luck with it!

  298.  #298mary on August 25, 2015 at 10:47 pm

    hello Indigo!

    thank you for responding!

    i just got home from delivering my letter. and no! i never considered that i was hurting myself, but i was – thank you – and i’ve got to quit doing that!

    and i know! i did go back on my resolve several times, as i’m constantly rethinking things and getting persuaded by others, and i do get “drawn in” to situations that aren’t good or right for me.

    thank you… it feels like you understood!

    i feel so sad! and embarrassed and i know i’ll be feelin’ lonely very soon, and i’m not looking forward to it.

    may be time to do a little circular dating…

    or after some time goes by!

    anyway, thank you for listening Indigo, and for your thoughts. really appreciated!



  299.  #299April Rose on August 26, 2015 at 3:30 am

    Linda 293

    I have a lot of empathy for you and a very similar situation myself.

    Doing deeper work, with a professional, I am uncovering that inner rage. It is where all my passion and life force live, and yet I am covering it over because it terrifies me.

    There is a deep belief that I will lose the beautiful things when I get them. And so I only attract the so-so and the things I do not really want.

    I am a master at hiding the desire and the rage and the fear. I cover them with a mask of ‘ho-hum. I’m doing sort-of okay. Getting by. Staying alive.’ But not FEELING very alive.

    This is deep work. I am well aware of the terrors and the perceived dangers of opening to my true desires.

    Love to you ((Linda))

  300.  #300Waterfall on August 26, 2015 at 5:31 am

    @ Azure Blu 276

    Thank you for posting this, I think it is spot on! How do we get like this?

    I know he wants all that sweet, nourishing love that I provide – it’s like he now is angry at me for daring to withdraw it. I’m not sure he is even aware that I have needs. Though I have told him over and over again…

    He emailed me TELLING me that he was going to come and pick me up and take me out, and that I was to wear the new dress he bought me and that we both deserved a night out.

    I think he was trying to be sweet, and not domineering – but still it feels like a person is TELLING me what to do and not asking me. He really scares me like this because in the past he has got more and more persistent if a) I don’t respond and b) I don’t respond with an alternative for us to do.

    ie If I don’t want to go out, then he will need a reason and if I say I am tired or something like that he will just respond with “Right, I’ll come over to you then and cook you dinner…”

    It’s like – again – I don’t have a chance to decide for myself.


    Anyway, for the time being I have ignored his email but I am sure at some point he will turn up at my workplace or start calling me…

    I will have to cross that bridge when it comes to it…

  301.  #301Sapphire on August 26, 2015 at 5:35 am

    Do you like this man? How do you feel about YOU when you are with him?

    There is a third way of carrying on seeing him but circle date yourself and others this then gives you options so you are not focused on one relationship and one man. Do you have any of Rori’s programs? Also there are coaches in training that you can talk to.

    Circle dating helps you learn about yourself, your pain that come up for healing, being gentle with yourself and your likes and dislikes in relationship and if you meet a great man that is fantastic.

    One of the things I felt reading your post is how hard you are on yourself. Its not “pitiful” (i felt a knot in my tummy reading this sentence) we have never been shown how to be in relationships.
    Please read as much as you can on here and notice how you feel reading the posts there is so much to learn

    Please be gentle on yourself and interact with us

    Love Sapphire x

  302.  #302Labbit on August 26, 2015 at 6:39 am

    293 Linda — This may sound weird, but I just want to lend my support for these thoughts that are coming up for you and how you feel right now. *Hugs* One thing I am learning BIG TIME is that the more I suppress the pain or hurt I feel, or try to deny it and tell myself I should feel OK or I should be over this already, the more that pain gets stuck to me. And I am the kind of person who cheerleads for other people to get through their pain as quickly as possible, and I’m learning that that is not the most effective way to go…that it’s actually better to sink down into the darkness or pain or whatever and shower it with love and attention so that I or anyone else can truly move through it…

    I am learning that the quickest way through whatever is getting me down is to go down there WITH it, let all the feelings that go along with it flow through me…and then weirdly, it passes, and I feel better. Sometimes even better than I did before those starts started up. As long as I can see them for what they are — thoughts and not reality — I’m doing no harm to myself.

    I am finding my mind is much quieter overall when I don’t deny what I’m feeling…I wonder if perhaps this is where you are too.

  303.  #303Dominique on August 26, 2015 at 7:50 am

    Mary – 294 – Hello sweetheart!!!

    As to your situation, I completely understand the feelings of embarrassment, and I could tell you to not feel this way, but I won’t. I say feel all of what you feel to its depths until you it transforms into something else or you really tire of feeling this way and move on on your own.

    And I will also tell you that there is only YOU here. You cannot control how another person feels, his reaction, his behavior no matter how it might feel this way sometimes. You MUST take care of you, now and always, your feelings, your heart, your body, mind, and spirit. If you won’t, how will a man ever be able to.

    Please don’t go to him to return his things. Next time he contacts you, let him know you’ve let it on YOUR doorstep for him to come and get if and when he wants. And you tell him that this just doesn’t feel right or good to you. You can wish him well if you want, but it’s not necessary.

    Much love to you.


  304.  #304Dominique on August 26, 2015 at 7:52 am

    Mary – 298 – I apologize for being too late here. You did good, really good. Now I would encourage you to keep looking for ways to take the very best care of you, in small ways or bigger. And listen to your heart, your intuition. She’s very wise.


  305.  #305Dominique on August 26, 2015 at 8:00 am

    Linda – 203 – I’m so sorry you’re struggling right now. I don’t want seems dismissive by saying that this too shall pass, for it sounds glib, and this is not at all how it’s meant. We ALL go through periods of feeling low, down on ourselves, feeling as though there’s no way out, yet this truly does pass. In the meantime can you try to embrace these low feelings as bad as they might feel? Can you love on them even? For they are a part of you, and you are amazing.

    Here are three articles for you which may help ease some of these feelings.



  306.  #306Dominique on August 26, 2015 at 8:01 am

  307.  #307Dominique on August 26, 2015 at 8:01 am

  308.  #308Indigo on August 26, 2015 at 1:14 pm


    Your posts to Mary about taking good care of ourselves hit the spot for me too. So thank you!

  309.  #309Indigo on August 26, 2015 at 1:42 pm

    I feel the need to share this on the blog, just for the sake of telling someone I guess. There’s a feeling that has been sitting on me so SO strongly the last few days. It is that I just don’t know where my life is heading, or what turns it will take, or how things will end up. I just have such a strong feeling that I should not try to predict or hold on too strongly to any ideas I might have of how it might go. Because I feel that it is going to surprise me in the best way possible, and I just have to be patient and go with it, not fight it. People who are not meant to stay in my life will drift out, and those who are meant to stay will stay, and I should not overthink it or get too attached to the outcome either way – I should just allow the flow, even if it feels confusing at times. I feel so strongly that I need to go with this flow.

    I feel like I am part of a story that I cannot get out of – any more than the characters in a book can jump out of the page. And that’s not a bad feeling, it’s a very good feeling. I just wish I knew what it all meant. But it’s a comforting feeling. I don’t know if I’m making ANY sense to anyone here. I really wish I was, it would be so nice to not feel like I’m the only one to feel this ever 🙂

  310.  #310Indigo on August 26, 2015 at 1:46 pm

    All I know is, that every time I try to fight the situation that I find myself in, things get 10 times harder and unravel and get worse very quickly. But when I can surrender to what is going on, a new avenue for learning opens up and I can move forward to the next step with more softness.

  311.  #311mary on August 26, 2015 at 2:17 pm

    Hi again,

    Dominique, thank you for the encouragement! Yes, I already took his things back… and he called today and the conversation got heated.

    I’d like to try the Third Way, and I just looked for it on Rori’s blog posts, and found what Rori said and I’ve copied below… she says “give a good man a chance…” oh, how I’ve given him chances! Now I wonder who else might be out there, and would there be constant arguing and heated discussions, all the time? (I don’t think so. I grew up in the most peaceful family you can even imagine.)

    I’m wondering if the Third Way is just awful for the man? This man wants to marry me, and I’m gonna say, “Hey, I want to date other men because I’m not sure about you?” How would I say that, anyway…



    Here’s what Rori said and I’m a little confused by it:

    “Jim – the point is getting obscured here.

    If you like the man, and want to be with him, and he’s proposing marriage…then you say yes and don’t CD!

    If you like the man and feel attached to him, and HE’S NOT SURE – meaning he doesn’t know about marriage, he doesn’t know what the future holds, he’s not sure you’re the one…but he really LIKES you, and really wants to have you all to himself – then that won’t work for you. Then you CD.

    Can you see the difference in the situations?

    If a man wants to marry you and you want to CD – well, then – we’re not talking about the same situation here.
    Hopefully – ALL men will want to marry you, and all you have to do is choose!

    I ALWAYS advise women to give a good man a chance – even an EXCLUSIVE chance at some time in the “dating relationship” – but, if you’re ready to go, and he isn’t – then CD with actual DATES is the only answer.

    CDing in the therapeutic sense is a life-long Tool.”

  312.  #312mary on August 26, 2015 at 3:03 pm


    Re-reading and thank you for mentioning the third way!


  313.  #313Sapphire on August 26, 2015 at 3:25 pm

    Essentially if both the man and women want the same thing and what he is offering is want you want in a relationships then you become exclusive.

    If he is not sure about marriage and you want marriage then by CD you will not be focusing just on him, you will be learning about you and possibly meet a better match for relationship that will lead to marriage. Also because your vibe is different and the man feels it he might decide he does want marriage rather than loose you.

    If he wants to marry you but what he is offering is not what you want in a relationship then you either let him go or you carry on seeing him but you CD.

    With regards to telling him. You are honest about how you feel in the relationship

    “I feel anxious/scared/frightened with the constant arguing. I don’t want that/feel that we aren’t a good match. What do you think”? There are other examples on her on feeling messages and I am sure the other Sirens can also help.

    I have copied and pasted your previous comments about the relationship here – I presume these are about the same man

    * i was in a relationship with a guy for too long

    * he was a flirt and he had an anger problem and our values were very different

    * i kept going back to him because i got charmed by him, because i had a hard time saying no to his casual requests to get together, and because i was lonely

    * i actually moved OUT OF THE COUNTRY for a while to spend time with my family and put some distance between us

    * of course he called all the time and still considered that we were together – a year went by


    * i loved talking to him on the phone

    * i moved, but i didn’t contact him (my ex) and i didn’t let him know where i lived

    Do YOU want what this man is offering?

    Rori also talks about you have to except the man as he is. If nothing changes with him do YOU still want to be in a relationship with him?

  314.  #314mary on August 26, 2015 at 3:32 pm

    Hello Sapphire,

    Okay. This sounds more clear. The thing is that I love him so much that I WANT to want him, but I keep having the gut feeling that this is all wrong when we argue. Arguing isn’t what I want.

    It will break his heart if I start seeing other men!

    : (

    We’ve had numerous discussions about it and he doesn’t agree that we argue. He thinks I argue. So trying to discuss it with him doesn’t really get anywhere.

    This whole thing has really set me back in life. Too much time, too much money draining away when I should have been focusing on career and my personal goals, too much angst and too much heartbreak and loneliness!

    I feel that it’s time to do something different.

    Thank you for the discussion!


  315.  #315Dominique on August 26, 2015 at 3:36 pm

    Indigo – 309 – You’re welcome, and thank you. And yes I totally get what you’re saying. Remember this – what you resist persists, and what you focus on grows.


  316.  #316Leela on August 26, 2015 at 4:29 pm

    I just came across some slightly old photos of mine, and I just think wow I’ve become so much prettier!!!! But why am I feeling much lower than back then, why the quality of my life seems lover than back then even though I have things I didn’t have back then. I attracted MUCH more men back then even to the point that whenever I would go someone would approach me and I din’t even look that much approachable but I thought of myself really high, I believed all men want me though I was carrying a lot of insecurities back then as well as I do now… . I had more confidence back then, I was going out more back then. I was in a relationship. I loved and I was loved. What happened to my energy and vibe???

    Online dating sucks for me. It was better a few years ago, now it’s not that popular anymore. The majority of men on there seem to be losers nowdays. I did meet my long term ex online. I had a bad breakup, went on a holiday, came back home, still feeling a bit shitty, but decided to create an online profile. Went online and met him. BANG! Why it doesn’t happen like that anymore, I tried many times and I think I’m giving up on it.

    No matter what I do I feel stuck. I want to love and be loved again but I feel a block inside me, the block feels hard and stiff in my chest. It’s a fear and anger. I want to melt it down but I don’t know how.

  317.  #317Labbit on August 26, 2015 at 5:34 pm

    309 Indigo — Makes perfect sense to me. I love it!!

  318.  #318Millie on August 26, 2015 at 8:14 pm

    What if I never meet anyone that wants ME.
    What if I live life never getting proposed to? No one that sees themselves with me? What if I never have the opportunity to have children? What if I never find love again? What if this is it? I feel like this is a real fear for me, and really likely to happen. I try not to think about it, but I do… I just feel like nobody wants me. What if I have to settle for being alone? I just feel like I don’t change. I’m still not good at being siren. I still beat myself up, I’m still in the same mental place I have been for years. I don’t know how to change. I don’t like lying to myself. I’m going to be 29 in a couple months, the age my mom met my dad… And I have no prospects. I’m so scared that it’s not going to happen for me. I’ll try to be nice to mhself, but I also want to yell “what more to you want?!” To the male universe! I live an enormously full life, pursuing my goals, I’m independent, physically beautiful, I’m living life, and still despite all of that I feel like it’s not good enough because I’m attracting the wrong people or no one at all rather. I just don’t get it and I’m frustrated and I’m already poring myself into my passions, so I’m not really sure what else is expected of me. I don’t know what men want in a woman anymore if I’m so repulsive.

    Sorry just having a vent. Rant.

  319.  #319Indigo on August 26, 2015 at 11:51 pm

    Millie 318,

    “I’m not really sure what else is expected of me.” Err, nothing? I’m 33 and certainly had as many relationships that didn’t work out as you (actually probably a lot more), yet it’s never occurred to me that I won’t find love.

    You might have to make peace with the fact that it might happen later in life for you than for some others, or that it’s not your time yet. Comparing yourself to others on some arbitrary timeline is a sure way to drive yourself nuts. Instead of constantly questioning yourself and everything you’ve done “wrong” or why people don’t seem to “want” you, why not try focusing on the idea that everything is unfolding as it’s meant to, and try going with the flow? There is beauty and joy in the flow of things, even if it’s not what you *think* you want right now. For all you know, maybe the man who is right for you is being moulded by life experiences in order to do relationship with you and isn’t quite ready yet. Do you see how insane beating yourself up in these circumstances is?

    Stop taking every relationship that doesn’t work out as a reflection on your self-worth. It would be physically impossible for every relationship to work out otherwise we’d end up being married to 40 men.

    (I hope these thoughts are helpful to you – they help me to restore flow and give me a sense of relaxation and contentment when I even feel myself starting to go down this destructive thought path.)

  320.  #320Victoria on August 27, 2015 at 5:02 am

    Dearest Millie,
    What if you meet someone who wants YOU and then, 5 years down the road he changes and stops wanting you. Even worse, what if you meet THE MAN YOU REALLY WANT and he, what a miracle, wants you back as much, and then, some time later you meet an even better man and you have to break the heart of the first man, the one you thought was your true love?
    I can tell you, from what I have seen, the likelyhood of these two things is much larger than the one that you will never meet love again.
    Most people marry at one point or another, most people have children if they want to (biological or othewise). The chances are all in your favor, even if you do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about it.
    In moments of loneliness and unhappyness we all ask this agonizing question, will I ever be happy again… How come I can not be happy, right this very moment, out of my sheer will. And I think, you can. You can flip a switch in your head, you can choose, YOU CAN CHOOSE what you would like to feel. You can cheer yourself, you can be your own best cheerleader, you can make yourself smile and you can make yourself laught. And, you can make yourself vent and complain, which to my mind is just as necessary and healthy and the other stuff, we all do it all the time. There is great comfort in self-pity, I love my own, I have a mental image for it, he is a big stray grey cat, who lives outdoors and if dirty and scruffy and has bites from other cats, and he comes home wanting food, but before I give him any food I try to wash him in the bath tub and cats really hate being bathed, and he is trying to wriggle out of my hands and he is scratching me and as my hands bleed I realize that this is not going to work and I need to give him food. So I do, and I pat him gently while he is eating, I give up trying to wash him, what’s the point, he will be gone after he finishes his meal, so just some comfort for him and me, and off he goes.

  321.  #321Leela on August 27, 2015 at 5:02 am

    Hello women!! I had an interview with me from the past and I want to share what I understood and maybe someone can relate or find it helpful:

    What kind of beliefs did I hold in the past?
    I DIDN’T FEEL OBLIGATED OR PRESSURIZED to do or be anything! I was more of a diva, I demanded high standards of treatment towards me (sometimes by inspiring sometimes by verbally expressing it). I didn’t shy away from expressing my needs and it worked! I didn’t shy away from asking to open that water bottle for me, to pull that chair for me, I didn’t shy away to refuse to pay for anything. I NEVER SHIED AWAY FROM SAYING A BIG FAT NO!
    MY BELIEFS: I’m the hottest woman, all men want me, I’m a lady (20 years old back then) and I need a gentleman with great manners who adores me (and I was getting that). Life is easy, it’s easy to find a job, it’s easy to attract men, everything is pretty damn easy.
    I didn’t think of my flaws as of something huge or important. I didn’t think of it as something that a guy might not accept. I saw my flaws as my personal thing- I’m the only one who sees them and no body else should have a problem with them because it’s none of their business!

    One night something bad happened to me which I probably wasn’t able to brush off.After that one thing after another was breaking my confidence and self esteem step by step, within a year I was completely feeling low. And it continued until yesterday. Yesterday I recalled the me I was able to be, the me I still AM able to be!!!
    My task for the following days is to look at me how I was, because it was the time I was the happiest and attractive in my life so far. I’m going to look at what did work, it was definitely my beliefs and most of my actions. I didn’t care about other people’s feelings though, today I probably care too much! SO I must find a balance here!

  322.  #322Azure Blu on August 27, 2015 at 6:12 am

    Leela #321
    I like this interview with yourself!!!
    seeing YOU and how confident YOU were
    and how you can bring that back…

    Don’t forget to love your insecurities…
    they need kindness, softness and tender love
    and affection from YOU…
    That is what will help bring back all your confidence…
    Maybe it is the neglecting and the hate of our lovely SELF
    that breaks down all that confidence over the years…???

  323.  #323Leela on August 27, 2015 at 8:29 am

    Azure Blu, yes it’s so important to give love to our insecurities and perceived flaws. I somehow stopped doing that. There are so many versions of ourselves, we can go from being a doormat to diva and vice versa. It’s totally our own choice which version of ourselves we stick to. A matter of mind set. And I finally figured out that being a diva doesn’t mean getting rid of insecurities and flaws, it’s about embracing them and not worrying if a man will accept them because it doesn’t matter! The only difference between a diva and a doormat is the difference of beliefs of how much worth they have in terms of how they should be treated by men AND how much of their real selves they express fearlessly!

    Visualization really helps!I remember back then whenever I would work out I used to visualize hot men chasing after me, or that I’m singing on the stage and men are looking at me with admiration and love. I didn’t even know it’s a tool back then!!! It simply turned me on and I was able to burn more calories lol and it shifted my vibe for the whole day. Now I can see how that image reflected back into my real life. Really have to try this again:)))

  324.  #324Heather on August 27, 2015 at 8:37 am

    I have been dating a man who recently introduced me to his Mother and other family members and I will meet his friends this Saturday. Is it too soon to have my friends over w/ him?

  325.  #325Zara on August 27, 2015 at 9:12 am

    318 Millie
    *****What if I never have the opportunity to have children?*****

    I can choose to have children. Regardless.

    I can have babies and marry the father later or marry a new man later or stay single.

    Even if I happen to be married before I choose to get pregnant, life might keep me married while I raise my children or might make me a divorced mother or a widower.

    As a divorced mother or a widower, I might stay a single mother, never remarry and keep having babies with one other dad or with several dads. I can raise the children with the father(s) or with a new man or on my own.

    Or I can become a remarried mother with children and step children. I can have new babies with the second husband. Or not.

    I can choose to have children at any given moment. Regardless of my love status.

    I can pay a nanny to help me out with the raising of the child. Anyway, married or single, I have to trust a nanny during my work hours.

    I can buy anonymous sperm. I can even pay for a surrogate mother if I decide to have babies after my menopause. Or if I decide that pregnancy is not adequate with my work load or with my health.

    Oh, I forgot a case very common on this planet. I might get pregnant by “accident” when I least expect it, and fall in love with that baby, regardless of me feeling loved by the father or not.

    I am not saying it is good or bad to be in any of these situations. I am saying those are a few of the ways things are done on this planet, so, if my first plan does not work out, there will be enough time for me to feel motherhood through other paths, regardless of the first plan my mind had made up.
    Who said the plan is the right path anyway? What is the right path? To where?

    What is life about anyway? I don’t know.

    So … I might as well choose to feel good while I experience life. And I might as well keep in mind that should I feel in alignment with having a child, then I can choose to have a child. Regardless.

    Whenever I feel ready. Regardless.

    Here is to my endless opportunities to be a mother. 🙂

    And here is to the infinite time ahead of me, the magical time unwrapping surprises as it evolves towards the infinity of love.
    Nothing is set in stone. Magic is real.
    May I breath and focus on my present well being; the loving embrace of Universe will surprise me.


  326.  #326Azure Blu on August 27, 2015 at 9:48 am

    Ahhhh…. sooo amazing and positive and delightful
    and exciting!!!
    Endless possibilities!!!
    Endless magic!!

    Zara wrote:
    “Whenever I feel ready. Regardless.

    Here is to my endless opportunities to be a mother. 🙂

    And here is to the INFINITE TIME ahead of me,
    the MAGICAL TIME unwrapping surprises
    as it evolves towards
    the infinity of love.
    NOTHING is set in stone.
    Magic *IS* real.
    May I breath and focus on my present well being;
    the loving embrace of Universe will surprise me.”

  327.  #327Azure Blu on August 27, 2015 at 9:59 am

    I’m feeling it is NOT too soon if
    You don’t feel like it’s too soon…
    What does your heart say?

  328.  #328Azure Blu on August 27, 2015 at 10:04 am

    Wondering your thoughts on this?

    I have been dating one of my CD’s – RM- for less than a month…
    He asked me to meet his family on the 2nd date…
    to meet them on Aug. 28 – this friday
    I thought “Ohhh… that’s far enough down the line…
    it’ll be fine”
    We have lots of fun… he says really nice things…
    like… “I feel so lucky that I’ve met you… You are exactly the woman I;ve been waiting for… I didn’t think I’d meet anyone so wonderful!!!”
    Soooo sweet…
    I’m liking him…
    BUT I am feeling MUCH pressure around meeting
    his whole family right now!!!
    With a 3 hr car ride (1.5 hr each way) with his 26 yr olde daughter, whom i’ve not met yet…

    I don’t want to go…

    I am going to explain that:
    “I feel very special that he invited me to meet his family…
    I am feeling happy and excited getting to know him and am feeling sparkly happy about getting to know him better!
    BUT I am feeling overwhelmed about meeting his family this early… I am sweetly declining your invitation
    I know you will understand.”

  329.  #329Azure Blu on August 27, 2015 at 10:09 am

    I so agree!!! I too have used Visualization
    over the course of my life…
    I first heard about it when reading an autobiography of an Olympic athlete… concentrating and visualizing every move and state of his muscles as he performed his sport!!!
    It too is powerful!!!

  330.  #330Indigo on August 27, 2015 at 10:09 am

    Azure Blu,

    I say honour your feelings on this, your script sounds wonderful!

  331.  #331Dominique on August 27, 2015 at 10:15 am

    AzureBlu – How does this feel to you?

    “I am feeling happy and excited getting to know you and continuing to get to know you better!
    And I feel very special being invited to meet your family…
    Yet I am feeling overwhelmed doing so this early…Thank you for understanding.”


  332.  #332Azure Blu on August 27, 2015 at 10:22 am

    Thank you for your support!!
    it means LOTs to me!!!

  333.  #333Azure Blu on August 27, 2015 at 10:23 am

    I do like yours…
    MORE simple and short!!!
    Thank you soooo much for your thoughtful, script!!

  334.  #334Dominique on August 27, 2015 at 10:33 am

    You are so welcome Azure.

    Love to you.


  335.  #335Leela on August 27, 2015 at 12:25 pm

    Dominique, such a nice script! It will also be a very good chance for Azure Blu to find out if this is a red flag guy or really into her! In my experience those guys that want these things so fast are either super needy (not a good thing) or super nice. Super nice guys will not take this kind of invitation reject personally whereas needy guys will and might even get more pushy.

  336.  #336Millie on August 27, 2015 at 1:18 pm

    Victoria, Indigo, and Zara–
    Thank you for your kind words of wisdom and insight. You ladies are right, I need to go with the flow and stop worrying.

  337.  #337Azure Blu on August 27, 2015 at 1:39 pm

    Leela #335
    Good point!

    many things have made me feel good about
    dating him… fun, thoughtful, He plans great dates
    He is generous, nice looking and eats right…

    I mentioned I didn’t like talking about his divorce (it happened 16 years ago)
    and he has stopped

    After the initial shock of me not letting him
    pick me up at my house…
    He has been VERY accommodating
    and has been meeting me at a restaurant in my town
    to drive me to our dates…
    driving 45 min. to my town
    and then 30 min or more to
    our different fun dates…
    and then he drives home 45 min..
    So masculine and thoughtful!!!

    I will be interested in his reaction
    to this.

  338.  #338Leela on August 27, 2015 at 5:09 pm

    Azure Blu, sounds really cool, keep us updated xx

    BTW what kind of script did you use to tell him not to pick you up at yours but at a restaurant instead? I will need this when I restart dating

  339.  #339Tereana on August 27, 2015 at 9:31 pm

    Hi ladies!!

    I’m taking breaks and in and out. I just wanted to check “in.” I loved the discussion of food and how it relates (or doesn’t) to personality and being flakey or wishy-washy. I don’t really have anything to add. I just liked it.

    Meanwhile, I have myself a really interesting experience today. I was walking home and thinking about my belief that I find so challenging – that I’m “worthless” and don’t “have value.” Even if I tell myself it’s not true, it’s like I’m fighting against this belief, and the harder I fight and defend, the more solid the belief gets – not the other way around.

    So, in my mind, I let the belief be “like a guy.” Thst is, I surrendered to it. I imagined myself walking backward, while it (the belief) moved toward me. Not forceful. Just curious. And then, even kidding me. Making love to me!

    What an interesting experience.

    Instead of fighting this belief, instead of even trying to kind it, I let IT love ME. Wow. And I felt a lot of feelings come up. And I sat with the feelings. I loved them. I let them come. It was an entirely new way of “being” with this belief. I’m curious to see how this may allow for some change or movement now in this area of my life that has felt stuck in one position for so long….

  340.  #340Millie on August 28, 2015 at 1:54 am

    Tereana that is amazing!!! Thank you for sharing that tool!!

  341.  #341Millie on August 28, 2015 at 1:59 am

    Song by Carrie Underwood

    Standing at the back door
    She tried to make it fast
    One tear hit the hard wood
    It fell like broken glass
    She said sometimes love slips away
    And you just can’t get it back
    Let’s face it
    For one split second
    She almost turned around
    But that would be like pouring rain drops
    Back into a cloud
    So she took another step and said
    I see the way out, and I’m gonna take it
    I don’t wanna spend my life jaded
    Waiting to wake up one day and find
    That I let all these years go by

    I’ve been listening and loving this song a lot lately. It’s so inspiring… I really don’t want to waste my life worrying and being sad and longing.

  342.  #342linda on August 28, 2015 at 4:46 am

    Millie what a great post!

  343.  #343Lovergirl on August 28, 2015 at 9:01 am

    Today is my birthday. Feeling kind of depressed. Im still getting over sickness, my.computer is in the shop, a bonus u was supposed to get for work was overlooked (they say I will get it next week), its a dreary overcast day and I don’t have any special plans. I doubt anyone will even take me out for a drink or dinner. I will buy a cake and let my kids sing to me but the most I am expecting from anyone else is a text or Facebook happy birthday wish. I feel kind of tangled up, not knowing if I will even hear from S. I feel small and unimportant and kind of like I did 10 years ago, when I turned 29 and even my own mother didn’t bother to call. :/

  344.  #344Lovergirl on August 28, 2015 at 9:05 am

    *I was, not u was- I hate typing long messages on my phone!!

  345.  #345Azure Blu on August 28, 2015 at 9:11 am

    Sweet, darling Siren…
    Thank you for letting us know it is your birthday!!
    We are celebrating YOUR BIRTH alllll day today
    on Siren Island!!!
    I feel blessed and supported by your insights
    and all your vulnerable sharing of your journey
    and your struggles…

    I am wishing you MUCH happiness ALLL year!

    Take a close look at HOW Far you have come in such
    a short time… and how much LOVE you are giving
    You are such a giving person… I hope
    your open heart is receiving
    all the love we are sending you today!!!

  346.  #346Azure Blu on August 28, 2015 at 9:12 am


    I am going to try this and keep it in my
    Tool Box!
    thank you so much for sharing!

  347.  #347Lovergirl on August 28, 2015 at 9:29 am

    Thank you Azure. Your words mean a lot. Im feeling all crushed up and sad today. The only person who even texted me so far is the Boring guy and all he said was Jappy Birthday. I feel lonely.

  348.  #348Lovergirl on August 28, 2015 at 9:30 am

    *Happy… ugh, my phone. I hate not having my laptop!!

  349.  #349Millie on August 28, 2015 at 12:17 pm

    Lovergirl!!!!! Please know you are not alone on your birthday! I feel very special to “know” you and listen to the ongoings of your life, the challenges, and the overcoming of them. I am beginning to think that being alone is good, it is the calm before something new begins…and perhaps this birthday marks another beginning for you. Have a wonderful day with your beautiful self and know I am wishing you a Happy Birthday!!!

  350.  #350Lovergirl on August 28, 2015 at 2:21 pm

    Thanks Millie, you are sweetheart! 🙂 I just feel like crap. The nest Ive gotten today are a bunch of Facebook messages and that one text. Not even my family has called to say anything. My grandma mentioned my birthday on the phone last night but that was about it.I have 8 brothers and sisters and a couple of step siblings. Only a few of them even said anything on Facebook so far. I feel so insignificant. No cards, no calls, no texts, nothing. I wasnt really expecting much but some kind of recognition from the people that are supposed to be important in my life would have felt nice.

    My kids of course said something. They really arent in a position to do much but they tried. Im just feeling down.

    S may not even know its my bday. I blocked him on all social media so he wont get notifications or anything. It atill hurts, especially since he does something special for each o f his ex girlfriends every year. It makes me feel especially low.

    The men in my life at this point, clearly dont care because I mentioned it to each of them recently at some point. So, its Friday night and it looks like I will be spending it alone. Not just any Friday night, nut my birthday. 🙁

    I tried to be loving to myself. I did beauty treatments and painted my nails.I dont feel better though. I feel worse. All fixed up with nowhere to go, like someone that got stood up. Im going to buy a cake and try to smile while my kids sing to me but I feel awful inside.

  351.  #351Sassy on August 28, 2015 at 4:55 pm


    Happy Birthday! Even though you’re feeling down, think about being grateful for what you do have. I have 4 friends that have all recently lost their children at the ages of mid thirties. Very tragic deaths too, so please be thankful you’re young, healthy, smart, beautiful, working and have 5 children that love and adore you.

  352.  #352Liquid Light on August 28, 2015 at 5:57 pm

    Happy Birthday Lovergirl!

    I agree with all of the above. You’ve got so much going for you. Think about your new-found success at work (huge!), your looks and personality (all those men paying attention to you tells me that), your kids, and your kind heart! So so much! You are an awesome woman, its obvious 🙂

  353.  #353Lovergirl on August 28, 2015 at 7:10 pm

    Thanks Sassy, Liquid Light. Its not that im ungrateful for what I have. I just feel ignored and kind of taken for granted. Like I go out of my way for others, but when its me, no one cares. Im just tired of having to do everything myself, care for myself, lean on myself. Just once in my life I would like to relax and be the person on the receiving end.of love and care, on my birthday or any other day.

  354.  #354Lovergirl on August 28, 2015 at 8:12 pm

    So at 10 pm my youngest sister texted me..I told her sje was the only one in the family who had and that I had had kind of a rough day. Like ten minutes later my mom called m Im pretty sure my sister told her to, and she only talked for about 2 min, but whatever. Much better than nothing and I do feel better!

  355.  #355Femininewoman on August 29, 2015 at 5:56 am

    aaawww ((((((((((((Lovergirl)))))))))))))))

    Hope you feel better today.

  356.  #356Indigo on August 29, 2015 at 7:42 am


    Happy birthday for yesterday! I hope you know you are very special on siren island. There are times when I feel like this community is my only support, so please know you are so not alone here.

    Sending you hugs and love and lots of good vibes! And hope your birthday was able to be nice in some way.

    (As a side note, I hope you will let this be an opportunity to feed into what you want from a man… I know that birthdays are very important to me and that I want a man who will make a fuss of me on my birthday 🙂 I learnt this the year that I was dating a guy who simply sent me a text on my birthday and now I know for sure how important it is to me )