When Sex Disappears – Circular Date

Untitled design (14)

We all have this belief that men want sex.  And so we worry about having sex with them, and we worry about the significance of sex, and we gauge our attractiveness and desirability by whether or not he wants to have sex with us.

But something happens that destroys that belief – we come up against men who suddenly don’t want sex.  They don’t initiate, they still want to date us, they still want to be married to us, but they don’t seem interested in sex.

This throws such a wrench into things for us – because sex is often, we think – the thing we most have to offer.

We think it’s the thing he most wants, automatically – and so – if THAT goes – we’re lost.

Here’s a letter from Krista, who’s going through this with her boyfriend, but I’ve heard this story from so many married women – and…I was once there myself, and “fixed” it….:

“Hi Rori,

We emailed a few weeks ago. I have purchased your Have The Relationship You Want ebook and your Modern Siren program. I am working through thebook and have listened to the first disc of Modern Siren so far. I have been practicing the the materials and I emailed with you regarding a private session. You suggested that i work through the materials for a bit first, practicing everything, and I have. I think that I’d still like a session with you privately, but might wait another week or so.

I have noticed a little difference in my Man. He does seem to respond well to the feelings messages. But, sometimes he just doesn’t respond. We just had our 1 year anniversary (dating not marriage) and we went out, but he didn’t buy me flowers or a gift. I got him a card. I felt disappointed, so the next morning I said exactly that…I feel disappointed. He asked why and I told him that I thought maybe I’d get flowers as I did on our 6th month anniversary. I told him I wasn’t saying it to make him feel bad, but I wanted to share with him and be honest about how I felt. He actually REALLY appreciated me telling him that…he actually used those words.

So, the problem I have now is that he hasn’t initiated sex in months. Before I ordered your problem I brought it up a couple of times after the new year, asking if he was still attracted to me and he said yes (laughing because he thought that was ridiculous), and that he goes through phases with sex….I don’t know if I believe him. I think it has to do with how he feels about us. Seems weird for a guy.

So, last week, using a feelings message I said….”I feel undesired, not udesirable, but undesired.” He said I was desired, but then I clarified it by saying “I mean sexually.” He started to say something…”I..” and then he just said….”it’s going to be fine…or everything is going to be fine.” That’s all he said. It eased my mind for a little bit, but I just think it’s not good for us to go so long without sex. What do you think is going on?

I’m wondering if I should let it ride out longer until he makes a move for sex, or if I should use the “want….don’t want” message you speak of in the ebook and say something like…..”I want sex. Or, I don’t want the kind of relationship where we don’t have sex.” I guess my question is…..Is this something to LET BE for the immediate future, or should I bring this subject up with your direction? Ideally, I want him to want me again….I know you know what I mean. How will that happen?

I’d love some advice! Also, it’s ok to work through the ebook along side the Modern Siren program, right?
Thank you, Krista”

And here’s my answer:

Krista – here’s what I’m going to tell you, and I want to give you a “heads-up” that it’s going to throw you.

At this point, he’s trying to figure out what he wants with you for the long term – marriage – and not having sex means he’s thinking it’s not going to happen.

What you need to do NOW!!! – and I mean right now – is DATE OTHER MEN. Yes. I know it scares you.

You need to start flirting – this is what Targeting Mr. Right is all about – but I don’t want to overwhelm you with programs. This is Circular Dating. For now – just flirt – use all your Siren and the ebook Tools to smile at men, use the Rori Raye Dance Position, practice feeling messages.

If a man should start a conversation and ask for your number, give him your business card (it’s such an easy and inexpensive thing to get a card made online – even if you don’t have a business, make a card and put your picture on it! – go to vista.com or overnightprints.com – that’s what they used to call in olden days a “calling card”), or say your email address – let him get a pencil and write it all down. GIVE YOUR CONTACT INFO TO HIM.

Then, when someone actually calls or emails you, you can make a lunch date, or a walking date or a coffee date – and you don’t need permission from this man you are not married to.

If you want to talk about it – say simply that you’ve been getting asked out, you’ve been getting invitations, and though you love him, you aren’t comfortable with the way things are sexually, and so unless he wants to work with that, perhaps get counseling and talk about marriage – you feel better keeping your options open.

This is a version of the “No Girlfriend” speech…and it’s high time you did this.

The end of sex is a big red flag.

In a marriage, it often needs intervention by a  therapist who’s actually a sex therapist. In a dating relationship at the point you’re at – 1 year – – it’s often the signal of the end of the relationship.

It means there’s anger – and that you need to be brilliant with the Siren Tools to open that up.

And sometimes it means there’s another woman. Perhaps only emotionally so, but still another woman.

Sometimes it means the man is actually gay or bisexual. Sometimes it means the man is having erection difficulties. Often it means he’s  having emotional or work challenges that are shutting him down.

No matter what’s going on with HIM – the solution is the same for YOU.

Please, please do this Circular Dating and do not waste any more of your time staying stuck in this place.

In the book, you’ll find how I worked through this. There was so much pain, anxiety and anger and disappointment in my marriage, it felt unfixable.

But it wasn’t unfixable – I was able to fix this in weeks with the Tools I share with you in my ebook and programs.

I was a terrified, crumb-taking, passive-aggressive, say-anything-but-the-truth kind of woman, and so I KNOW if I could get my marriage back on track and sexy again – so can YOU at this early stage of your relationship.

I was lucky.  My man was able to do intimacy.  He loved, and continues to love me – so he really wanted our marriage to be great, he just didn’t know what was wrong (he didn’t even know anything was wrong!).

When I opened up the walls that were between us emotionally, and stopped making him wrong (even indirectly and “gently”) so he could relax and trust me – everything changed so fast I had no choice but to realize the problem at the root of everything was MY inability to do intimacy.

As I worked on me, our marriage just got better and better and better every day.

We can talk about anything now. If there’s ever something “buried” – I know it’s MY job to bring it to the surface.

Circular Dating will raise your confidence level (even if you only talk to other men and don’t actually date them) – so that you’ll be more able to speak the truth to this man.

If he’s physically capable, if he’s primarily heterosexual, and he’s still with you and not with another woman – and I hear that he is – you can do this!

Love, Rori

Posted in


  1.  #1Siena on May 3, 2010 at 10:58 am

    “it’s often the signal of the end of the relationship.
    It means there’s anger …And sometimes it means there’s another woman. Perhaps only emotionally so, but still another woman.”

    Oh boy, BIG time trigger for me. I know this is true, and I still feel the hurt. I feel lightheaded. This is true, and it feels so hurtful. He should have taken care of his stuff before he started to make promises. But I forgive him, I forgive myself, and I love my feelings of anger and hurt and lightheadedness. I’d like this to be healed. Life happens. Breakups happen. It’s all good.

  2.  #2Siena on May 3, 2010 at 11:12 am

    “I had no choice but to realize the problem at the root of everything was MY inability to do intimacy.”

    …and this is true too, which is why I feel so grateful that I found Siren Island! I CAN fix me! I feel empowered and grateful. This is gonna work, I can feel it!

  3.  #3Siena on May 3, 2010 at 11:14 am

    I feel embarrassed that I’m spamming this post. But… oh well. I love my embarrassment.

    He was sent to me to show me that it’s time to fix my fear of intimacy. I am so grateful. He was a gentle messenger. Thank you!

  4.  #4Ankita on May 3, 2010 at 11:27 am

    Hello everyone….

    I agree with Siena….
    I had the same problem….
    I was also inable to bring the intimacy between us…. Perhaps I didn’t knew how to do that…. The talking issue.. The intimacy Issue… Chase issue… Countless issue… Whichever direction I look, I only saw issues … (with him..)… 😀 😛

    I got a sudden shock when he said he doesn’t wishes to be intimate with me anymore… Stopped initiating sex with me…. But I didn’t give it much importance…

    I thought.. “Oh may be, due to his work pressure.”

    And well, there was this another girl…

    But it’s life… Life happens this way….

    Now am gonna heal myself and get out and do CD after my exams….. get over….

    What’s gone… Gone… What’s present… Is mine….!! 🙂

  5.  #5Ankita on May 3, 2010 at 11:31 am


    We are not spamming.. Lolz… 😀
    We are just venting out how we feel and felt at the moment….

    Rori won’t mind it… He he he….

    After all, now we love our feelings… Finally we have learnt to…

    Our quirks, our tears, our sadness… all are parts of us… And we love them….

    Am glad to be part of this siren’s world…!!

  6.  #6Apple Jacks on May 3, 2010 at 11:41 am

    I LOVE my quirky sisters! 🙂 Lord knows I have enough quirks to fill up a whole sky!!!!!!

  7.  #7Siena on May 3, 2010 at 12:02 pm

    Yes, we’re quirky. That feels good, actually. I don’t want to be normal and boring!

    I just feel grateful that I’m triggered here on this forum for these types of hurts to come up so I can heal them. I don’t want to live with them. Although I love my hurt feelings, I don’t want them ruling my life nor my romantic relationships. I want to be healed. I feel grateful that Rori has shown me how to heal this stuff.

    I love my siren sisters too!

  8.  #8Daria on May 3, 2010 at 12:08 pm

    i feel pist. i was just tlaking to my friend about pushing ourselves versus not.

    she told me i should push myself even when my body says no

    i said no

    im tired of that

    she thinks that if she doesnt push herself she will fail

    i feel pist

    i feel pist

    i feel pist

    she thinks shes alone in the world

    i feel resentful
    and judgemental

    and angry


    i DO NOT want to push myself


    i dont care
    if i die
    in this spot


    i will
    go against my intuition

    it will only hurt me

    i dont want to go thru life like that

    my friend works and works and i had to tell her, to take it easy in school. and she wouldnt
    and then
    now she does the same in work

    i had another friend

    whos parents are in jail

    who put herself thru college
    and then worked
    to wehre
    she overworked herself
    and got sick

    and got a hysterectomy
    at age 26

    i have a mom

    whos been depressed
    for most of my life

    who pushes herself
    and its obvious
    its because
    she pushes herself
    and doesnt pay attention
    to her pleasure

    and i feel so mad

    to be told to push myself

    or be told that someone else has to


    so many people think the same thing
    and fuck themselves up

    and i guess its my friend’s right to fuck herself up
    and i dont like it

    and i dont want it for me

    so fuck off world

    fuck u
    fuck u

    fuck u
    i dont care

    what your circumstances are

    because i know
    i did things that were hard
    go to college
    and it wasnt
    so much pushing myself
    as it was what i wanted to do
    even when

    it would seem hard to other people

    so that was not pushing

    and all my life ive been pushing
    till i found

    this work

    that my life
    is for pleasure

    so therefore

    ill push when i want to push
    like when i give brith

    i want to be in tune with my body
    and im so glad

    that i finally hear and can listen

    my dancing is better
    my vibe is better

    and i can do bigger and more expressive things i bet
    then if i pushed myself
    to freakin
    things that were not in tune
    with me

    so i feel really angry
    and unheard by my friend

    i feel like im being told

    that im being ungrateful
    because i choose
    to be happy
    and feel good

    i feel so mad

    i know many people with hardships

    if i just thought
    if i dont push myself i will fall

    be something

    that would
    run my mind

    so those thoughts
    are over

    and this anger
    is now

    i feel angry
    i dont want to hear about how your life suckx

    i just feel like competing with how my life sux

    and then
    that is
    most likely a misdirection of my energies

    you dont know me
    or how it feels to be me
    or my life experience

    and im realizing
    that she said nothing about mine

    but i feel like
    punching and slapping somebody

    i feel furious

  9.  #9Daria on May 3, 2010 at 12:30 pm

    i feel pist.

    my comments seem to be moderated

    and im not sure what happend

    i feel so triggered

    and i dont like

    when people imply

    that their lives are worse than mine, so woe is them, and they have to do all this hard stuff

    that i dont

    i feel SO MAD

    at this


    taht i feel unsafe

    and my jaw is tightening something bad

    my sister

    doesnt do this shit to me

    its why we’re friends
    we’re not about, my life sux more than yours

    i cant stand that

    i feel Judged
    and that feels INFURIATING

    and i dont want that in my life

    yeah thats great you can do that,

    but me, I ahve to suffer

    me I have to do things that dont feel good

    but you dont


    i feel furious


    for real?

    how dare you judge me?

    how do you know what the hell i live with

    what makes you think your life is worse

    yeah some stuff sounds worse


    i know people
    way worse off then you

    who i dont feel this way about

    cuz i am me

    i dont like fucking
    treated this way

    and though i cant clearly articulate

    what the fuck im really pist at exactly

    i know

    that i feel so fuckin pist

    that my thighs and butt and jaw

    are telling me

    i feel mad as FUCK!!!

    and i dont want to use feeling messages
    cuz ive almost lost it completely

    and watnt to talk a whole lot of shit

    dont get at me that way
    dont try to make me feel
    youre better than me
    cuz youve suffered more

    cuz u dont know me
    and its none of your business what i go thru

    unless i tell u
    just like
    urs is none of mine

    so if we’re sharing our feelings and business
    then its not cool

    for you to tell me that
    youre having a harder time then me

    its the one thing
    that i cant and dont want to tolerate

    from mothafuckas

    whoever they are

    fuck everybody
    who got a problem with me

    who thinks im spoiled
    or hard headed

    or have it easy

    bitch (and this is general bitch but yeah i lost it)

    you dont know
    what its like to be me

    u have NO IDEA

    you never HAVE seen or been
    the places i have

    and the shit i been thru

    and here i am

    not tryna make your ass feel bad

    about the shit i been thru

    but u wanna try to make me feel bad


    push yourself if you want to
    kill yourself if you want to
    make yourself sick

    and tell yourself that you HAVE to

    if you want to

    i will NOT tell you its cool
    as long as i care about u

    its not cool

    if you think you woulnda made it
    you probably would have

    we all would have
    we all think that way

    until we change
    the way we think

    dont fuckin judge me

    cuz im tryna make my life better

    cuz im tryna remove the huge pUSH

    in my life

    i am so cool

    i feel so mad

    i feel soooo mad

    omgod i feel so mad

    and im riding this huge wave

    and realizing

    i feel afraid
    of this person


    i care about them


    maybe they wont fuck with me no more

    but you know what

    this is how i feel

    i feel really pist offffffff

    i DO NOT want to be treated this way


    that my words

    arent coming otu good

    i feel uncelar

    what triggered this feeling

    but i kknow for sure

    this is how i feel triggered


    hopefully its not

    that there goes another friend in my life

    because that would feel sad


    my side is fuckin hurting

    i feel some calmin

    and now

    i just feel a lil nautious


    and afraid

    of the aftermath
    of my expression

    i want to express myself

    and i want it to be good

    and i feel afraid

    so im gonna take this comment

    and paste it somewhere else

    or not

    ill just leave it

    cuz its nameless

    all the better

    still feelin a bit

    tightened up and angry

  10.  #10Sherry on May 3, 2010 at 3:41 pm

    Daria – I love you girl!!! Your comments rock 🙂

  11.  #11Daria on May 3, 2010 at 3:43 pm

    Thank you Sherry!!!

  12.  #12Rori Raye on May 3, 2010 at 4:43 pm

    Daria, I really like this – and don’t push. Sink. Organically then, you’ll feel like “doing” something. Love, Rori

  13.  #13Turtle Girl on May 3, 2010 at 5:22 pm

    Oh, this feels terrible. This makes me feels awful. I am sad and triggered, and fearful.

    This is what happened with my ex-sex went away and then he wanted to be “friends”. This post makes me want to cry. It brings back the hurtful memories of that last relationship. And now it is happening again in a different way. One of the CD men I tried to have sex with for a few times is impotent. What the hell is going on with men and me? He has yet to get it up so we just dropped it, and kept seeing each other after the sex did not work, and now, it is like he is fading away.

    He says he just does not want me to be frustrated.
    I have not said anything to him. I don’t have to. He knows it is not good. It is like he just does not care enough about having a woman to fix his problem, so he just lets it slide and “oh well”. It feels so bad.
    I feel undesired-you bet-even though it is his problem, I feel cursed. The last three men have have this issue. WTF? I feel such a lack of attention, and so undesirable, and so sad and so “beat up” over this I want to cry and scream. What the hell is going on with the men out there.

    Rori-is it the estrogen in all our plastics and food or what? It’s like this shit has become an epidemic. Are half the men out there angry as hell at women?
    On of my men that I had a coffee date with told me he had had about 30 dates with women in the last month. He said that a high percentage of them complained that the men they are meeting are not interested in sex. WHAT? I know my age group of men is not the same as when they are 25 or 30, but still, I can remember my dad still liking it into his seventies. Can you give us any insight to this. I hear this so much it is scary to me.

    As if we don’t have enough problems doing relationships with men in the first place and then throw this into the mix. Wow. I feel like giving up. I feel like saying fuck it. I feel like it is just too much to handle. I feel overwhelmed and angry and sad and frustrated big time. I am so pissed at this I want to pound my fist into something. I feel like slapping the men that can’t perform. I want to shove them off a cliff. I want to chew them out and kill them off with my anger over this. Is this some sort of “backlash” at women for the feminist movement. Some sort of sick psychological zeitgeist that is going on? Ok bitches, you took our jobs and moved out on your own and don’t need us men anymore, so fuck you, we won’t have sex with you anymore? I am going way out on the ledge here.
    Anyone want to talk me back off the ledge? She shakes her head in total confusion.

  14.  #14Catherine on May 3, 2010 at 5:54 pm

    My issue is similar but a bit different. My man is in his late 40s and I am 52. We’ve known each other almost 2 years and have been dating for 7 months. We are not platonic, and have tried a few times but we have never been able to successfully have sex. He had a debilitating illness several years ago followed by a lot of emotional turmoil and finacial loss and is just now beginning to really get back on his feet and regain some of his confidence. The last 2 weekends we have been addressing this issue. We have a really good, open, honest, emotionally intimate relationship that has had its ups and downs but we always seem to get back on track. This morning we again discussed the issue at length. He tells me he loves me and I do feel very loved. We spend every weekend together, we do things for each other and have often discussed marriage. This morning I made the comment that maybe I’m just Transistion Girl who’s here to help him get his life back and he replied “or maybe you’re here to be with me forever” We have so much fun together, participate every weekend in a shared sport and have a lot of summer plans. I’m very involved in other activities and groups and thus have lots of opportunities to be around men and always “Circular date” in a flirting fashion, I’ve decided to just relax, and enjoy him and this summer. His issue may be organic in nature, but personally, I believe that he’s distancing himself from me physically because we are so emotionally intimate, it’s his way of staying less vulnerable. (his marriage ended horribly including the loss of his business and his daughter who he hasn’t been allowed to see in over 2 years, long story) He doesn’t have insurance and has so many other presing issues at this time, pushing him to get tested for testosterone etc. is overwheming to him right now. In the meantime, any advice other than circular date? At the moment other than coffee dates or casual outings with male friends, which I do, I’m not willing to break our exclusivivity agreement. Any comments? I’ve made it ery clear to him that I want a physically sexual relationship and I want it with him. How much time do I give him and how much do I push the issue?

  15.  #15Bella on May 3, 2010 at 5:57 pm

    I too have a fear of intimacy.
    I feel so embarrassed, but the last guy I was seeing didn’t even try to initiate sex with me, instead, I would always pleasure him and he knew that I wouldn’t say no to him.
    I was definitely a doormat, but I didn’t feel safe receiving sex from him, and so I just didn’t go there either. In my heart I knew he was no good, but I was addicted to him and so I let it continue. I am so angry that I allowed myself to sink to such depths of low self-esteem.
    I invited him to abuse me because I didn’t feel that I deserved to feel good or be loved. I’ve never let a good man love me because I’ve been too busy staying with toxic men who abuse me.
    At the time, as sick as it sounds now, it felt better to have any kind of physical contact, even if I ended up feeling degraded and humiliated afterwards.
    I’m still working through getting over feeling undesirable and worthless, because I know I’ve just been lying to myself to cover up my pain and anger.
    The relationship was pure toxic, and I feel happy and thankful that I found this site and Rori’s tools. I am finally waking up and recognizing my patterns, and I’m learning to set boundaries and learning to love myself. I know that’s a start. Baby Steps, but I have a lot of healing to do.
    I feel angry
    I feel embarrassed
    I feel rejected
    I feel bitter
    I feel ashamed
    I feel furious
    I feel tormented
    I feel sad
    I feel deprived
    I feel crushed
    I feel alone
    I feel heartbroken
    I feel untouched
    I feel lonely
    I love my feelings.

  16.  #16Daria on May 3, 2010 at 6:07 pm

    Wow Rori – thank you.

  17.  #17Daria on May 3, 2010 at 6:09 pm

    Turtle Girl – I think its a ‘ boundary test’ of some universe sort.

    Like the men not driving to me was.

    I just kept saying no to it (babysteps, sometimes i said yes and it didnt feel too good, another babystep to no, etc) , even tho i felt hopeless.

    At one point, something shifted, and even tho the non drivers still show up, it doesn’t trigger me much anymore, AND there are drivers showing up now too.

  18.  #18Tara on May 3, 2010 at 6:25 pm


    Hugs! We love you for saying what you feel.

    Turtle Girl:

    Actually, environmental estrogens, as well as estrogens in commercial dairy and animal products, sunscreens, medications, etc. DO affect sexual ability and behavior in both animals and humans.
    I learned this while researching a paper I had to write for one of my classes (I’m an English major).
    Swedish researcher Margaret Schlumpf has done much of the pioneering research on estrogenic sunscreen ingredients; she found some shocking results for both men and women.

    Short answer: too much estrogen can make men both disinterested and unable.

    I’ve personal experience with the no sex = end-of-relationship thing. Very hurtful, almost impossible not to take it personally. With the ex-h, it was a massive porn habit — he just didn’t want me any more. With S, who knows? I knew the relationship was in trouble when he didn’t want to make out or even French kiss. He even went to the extent of making sure we were never, ever alone together, even for a few minutes. It was very obvious.

    Now he is “so busy” that we rarely see each other at all — like once a month or every six weeks. That’s not even a relationship.

    I DIDN’T TEXT HIM TODAY!!! I have not texted him for three or four days now.

    He didn’t text me, either. Or call. We haven’t communicated since Thursday or Friday — I forget which.

    I’ve decided to resign from the board we both belong to, after I’ve fulfilled my existing commitments to them this summer. I just don’t feel like being there any more.

  19.  #19Siena on May 3, 2010 at 6:31 pm

    one of my CDs just broke up with me. I knew there was no long term potential there. He asked me if I wanted to have kids, and I do. And he doesn’t, so he ended it.

    It’s funny, but I feel a little mad. Although I respect him for being a standup guy, I don’t like being broken up with. Even though I knew it wasn’t going anywhere.

    hmmm. this feels weird.

  20.  #20Sherry on May 3, 2010 at 6:35 pm

    I have been having major problems practicing with feeling messages. I had an ah ha moment over the weekend. A co worker asked me how I felt about something that should have been simple and I realized I didn’t have a clue!

    I have spent the last 14 years since my divorce avoiding my feelings. Shoving them somewhere so I could maintain and raise my 2 small children. I can tell you my reactions, or what I think. But, my feelings? I don’t have a clue!

    I have tried a couple of Rori’s tools but without much luck. It seems Ihave gotten really good at talking to myself so as to take my mind off what I am feeling. Any time I try sinking in to my feelings, my mind takes over and I end up avoiding them. I realize I have huge walls built, but I need to start somewhere. Does any one have any suggestions on what tool I should start with?

  21.  #21Siena on May 3, 2010 at 6:35 pm

    …and when I realized what he was saying to me, I scrambled to use as many feeling messages as possible (hee hee) because I’m not sure I got his message, and I didn’t want to waste the opportunity of him and miss the message he was supposed to bring me. hmmm, what was his message? I don’t want to date him again, I’d just like to know the message please. Thank you!

  22.  #22Daria on May 3, 2010 at 6:54 pm

    YAy Tara. Good for you for taking care of yourself.

    I stopped hanging out on the street where guywhohadababy lived, because i would feel so triggered seeing him. It helped more than anything.

  23.  #23Melissa on May 3, 2010 at 7:00 pm


    I have been seeing this man exclusively (with the exception of about one month) for 2.5 years. The beginning was wonderful. But a few things have happened. one, he pursued his ex wife for a time (I encouraged this to see if there was still something there for them) and he says now that he just needs to “truly fix himself” I get comments like, “I don’t have a crystal ball,” “I don’t know where we will end up,” and “I don’t know what the future holds.” I did the I love you but I cannot be exclusive speech with him and he got angry at me! I told him I would date others and he told me that he just wanted me to do what I wanted to. However, I work for him a couple of days a week. This has become a challenge but think I am handling that ok. He still wants sex occassionally and Im not sure how I feel about doing that. I asked if I was more like a sister or a friend with benefits and he said no much more and deeper than that. I am in love with him but am so confused!! Please help me!

  24.  #24Daria on May 3, 2010 at 7:00 pm

    Sherry – this was how i “felt” when i first learned about feelings.

    Here’s a tool:

    start by knowing the basic emotions: mad, glad, sad, afraid

    Stand up, put one foot in Back of the other, lean back slightly on the bakc foot. (getting in Rori Raye dance position)

    Now roll your shoulders OUT. not BACK military style,

    but OUT softly, turning your arms so that your palms are facing front by your sides

    When you roll your shoulders out, and


    might be a lil shiver coming up from your belly to your chest

    ask yourself: what do i feel? pick one of the four that might be closest

    and say it to yourself.


    You’re well on your way now.

    Noticing that you were avoiding your feelings before is a HUGE babystep – YAY!

  25.  #25Turtle Girl on May 3, 2010 at 7:13 pm

    A boundary test-now that is interesting. Maybe something to think about. I should just keep saying NO
    to impotent men. The more no, the more room for yes to show up. Yes. I could never say “yes” to a relationship where it was sexless. That just feels awful.

    Thank you Daria for your comment. This is something that did not occur to me. I feel what Tara said has some weight to it, even though that is awful and I wish it were not so. What a mess this world is sometimes with all the crap we humans do to the environment and other ways we harm one another. Ugh!

    But definitely regardless of the reason why-I do not accept a relationship with a man where there is little to no sex. That is not what I want.

  26.  #26Lucy on May 3, 2010 at 8:04 pm

    Turtle Girl — I really feel for you! That would feel awful having that happen again and again.

    Tara wrote, “With the ex-h, it was a massive porn habit — he just didn’t want me any more.”

    That was what I was going to say as a reason why I think men are less interested in sex with women these days. Porn is so readily available everywhere now, and for a lot of specific reasons many men actually prefer it to a real live woman.

    And the trouble is, when they DO then want to be with a woman, a lot of times they can’t perform because they have trained their brains and bodies to respond to porn instead.

    On a positive note, the men I have been dating have NOT had that problem, so that means there are some out there! AND it means that it may be what Daria said — a boundary test for you specifically, since it’s happening with you but not me (I assume in a similar age group).

    Here’s to amazing sex for Turtle Girl!


  27.  #27Aminata on May 3, 2010 at 8:15 pm

    Hi Goddesses!

    I just wanted to say sometimes guys not wanting to have sex isn’t about the woman. Once, I was involved with a guy and he stopped having sex with me cold turkey. I freaked out, wondering what was wrong and even wrote him a letter. Turns out writing him that love letter WASN’T a bad idea. It made him confess he had an STD that he had been hiding throughout our relationship. Major. I got lucky on that one by coming away unscathed. So now when a guy doesn’t want sex, I don’t take it so personally. It might be a blessing in disguise.

    @siena- I really hear and feel what you are saying about breaking up with someone who you knew it wasn’t going anywhere yet it still hurts. Last year I went through that. Me and the dude both new we were going in opposite directions from the start but we couldn’t help the attraction between us. When I realized it was time for me to move on, it really hurt to break up with him. And he was upset too, big time even though he was the one who said he didn’t want anything serious at the beginning and I told him I did. I still think about him even though I’m circular dating and he still writes me every blue moon. Thank god he’s stopping because I said I don’t want to be friends. The last time he said he had a dream about me. When is this gonna blow over?

    What’s up with that? Can somebody help me on this one? Was that relationship just a toxic addiction for the both of us? How can I get back to good in my head? I’m starting by focusing on me all the time…

  28.  #28Lucy on May 3, 2010 at 8:22 pm

    Siena — Which guy was it?

    Hugs to you!

    He’s just making room for your next guy who will be much closer to being your Mr. Right, maybe even will BE your Mr. Right. <3

  29.  #29Sherry on May 3, 2010 at 8:23 pm

    Thank you Daria! I will practice with that!

  30.  #30Turtle Girl on May 3, 2010 at 8:36 pm

    Oh Tara-
    I am so sorry-the whole pron thing is terrible. That feels so awful.
    I had an ex that had a porn thing as well. There is so many things out there that men can get to satisfy their “need” that it is like they don’t even want real women any more. My girlfriend showed me this website that has life size dolls made to order. Anatomically correct and look just like real live women. It is like a dildo only life size with the rest of the body. I find it disturbing. Some men are paying 6 thousand dollars for these dolls and the comment section on this website is really sick. They say things they they keep them company and they love them and shit like that. It is bizarre to the extreme.


    So guys can get hookers, porn, dolls that can be positioned in any way they want to fuck. And none of this is a real woman with a real voice with real needs. Very emotionally dead. I find it really disturbing on so many levels. I wonder what Tinique has to say about all that.

  31.  #31Siena on May 3, 2010 at 8:38 pm

    Thanks Lucy and Aminata,

    It was just a temporary sting, and was more pride than anything else. I don’t feel hurt. And I had forgotten, but I did get his message! He’s the one who told me about controlling women.

    And I actually feel good that he didn’t just disappear. That tells me that he was a quality guy, which makes me feel good that I attracted a quality guy. Maybe my guy is just on the horizon!! Yayy!

  32.  #32Rori Raye on May 3, 2010 at 8:58 pm

    Sherry – I want to say BRAVA to you for the first major step in turning things around for yourself – and that’s your AWARENESS of how you’re stuffing down and avoiding your feelings. As you become seriously aware of this, you’ll start to ask yourself “What am I feeling?” and you’ll start to get some answers. Then you practice speaking what you feel in Feeling Messages. That’s how it works. Slowly, patiently – you practice. There are so many Tools – anyone have a favorite for this? I like the one about “Be His Poem” – but not sure where it is here, or if it’s a newsletter….Love, Rori

  33.  #33Rori Raye on May 3, 2010 at 9:02 pm

    Welcome Bella, and please do NOT beat yourself up. I believe I was in the place you’re in, too – and if I could get myself out of it, I KNOW you can! I humiliated myself many times over until I actually got what was happening and turned it around. Just start in on any Tools that “sing” to you – just do them. Then do others…just keep thinking of everything as an experiment, an exploration, an experience for you to heal yourself and discover what “happy” feels like for you. Love, Rori

  34.  #34Rori Raye on May 3, 2010 at 9:12 pm

    Catherine, so sorry for the “pickle” you’re in. The answer is obviously Viagra. Surely he can see that – and yes, it’s expensive. And the way you bring it up is crucial here. Personally, unless you’re okay with a life-long sexless relationship with him (many women might be)…I’d first simply let him know that there are other kinds of sex than “intercourse” by experimenting with him. If he’s unable to have physical contact and fun sex even without intercourse (I don’t buy the whole “emotional intimacy” explanation) without you pushing at ALL – I think you’re in serious difficulty here. Depression can cause many sexual problems. He might even be gay. It may be that you’re pushing him away with masculine energy (I can’t tell from your letter) and bringing up old anger issues for him. So…if it were me, I’d say simply that I love him, I don’t want to be with anyone else, but that it doesn’t work for you to be exclusive under the circumstances, especially that you don’t want to put pressure on him for sex. And then I’d find another lover until he’s ready to work this out. Okay – that’s me…and I think your plan is fine…but it wouldn’t work for me. A man instinctively feels that if a woman stays with him exclusively when he can’t provide sex – there’s something wrong with her – he’s too important to her. Love, Rori

  35.  #35mary on May 3, 2010 at 9:37 pm

    I just heard from Island Man!

    Oh, patience… thank you!

  36.  #36mary on May 3, 2010 at 9:41 pm


    My island man emails me on POF and says clever things about nothing. Tonight he emailed me that there’s supposed to be a lightning storm… kinda cute, but really. I’m from DALLAS. I think he might be incredibly shy. I’m just waiting it out, responding to all his little whimsical emails, and staying on POF and answering other emails, too! I’m sure he sees that I’m online and he’s wondering.

    Oh. I would like to ask him some questions, but I’m holding off. Maybe we’ll get together soon.

    Dating is sometimes just excruciating.

  37.  #37mary on May 3, 2010 at 10:06 pm

    I want to lean forward! I want to ask him about the island! I want to ask him about himself! I want to talk to him!

  38.  #38Daria on May 3, 2010 at 10:07 pm

    Mary – actually its cool to ask him questions about stuff you feel curious about!

    (I didn’t know this at first either…) As long as we’re not leading the convo or asking with an Agenda, but just out of curiosity

  39.  #39Daria on May 3, 2010 at 10:08 pm

    I wish Rori would clarify some more on this stuff… cuz sometimes i feel confused

  40.  #40mary on May 3, 2010 at 10:12 pm

    I just want to say, “tell me more about ______ (his island.) That’s it!

    What do you think?

    Oh, I’m dying to do it!

  41.  #41mary on May 3, 2010 at 10:15 pm

    Maybe I’ll just keep cool and keep playing with him. All I did was respond to his “there will be lighting” to “but will there be thunder?”

  42.  #42mary on May 3, 2010 at 10:18 pm


    I’ve gone on about twenty dates in the last couple of months!

    And out of those twenty, a few repeaters… and you know, it takes time!

    THIS is why it HURTS SO MUCH when men withdraw. And suddenly don’t want to have sex, or kiss, or be with us in that kinda way.

    It’s almost easier to stay with what you know, than to get out there and do this again!

    Even though it does has it’s amazing moments…

    Just sayin…

  43.  #43mary on May 3, 2010 at 10:18 pm

    I feel frustrated.

  44.  #44Daria on May 3, 2010 at 10:19 pm

    Yes, one time Rori suggested when we’re interested to say “Tell me more”

  45.  #45Daria on May 3, 2010 at 10:19 pm

    I’m a lil confused about the THIS IS WHY MEN WITHDRAW

  46.  #46Daria on May 3, 2010 at 10:20 pm

    what is “this”?

  47.  #47Siena on May 3, 2010 at 10:26 pm

    Mary!! Ask him!!! “I feel curious, what’s your island like.” he started the convo, right? He contacted you? You can keep the convo going without leaning forward!

    And he was totally flirting with you with the thunder comment! Play!!!!

  48.  #48autumn on May 3, 2010 at 10:26 pm

    Rori, I went through the same situation with my husband and it was indeed a big red flag when a man rarely initiated sex. And my husband for the longest time trivialized the issue as if I made sex such a big deal over everything else. He was (and sometimes is) still in denial how important sex is in a marriage.

    Long story short, we broke up because I was so unfulfilled and resentful so I strayed (let’s just put it that way at this point).

    We’re in a reconnecting phase these days and sex has been frequent and wonderful (once a week/10 days for 5 mins when we were married, 2-3 times a week for at least 30 mins these days). And he wanted and initiated it all the time. I sometimes wonder it is because I am “no longer” his wife so sex is more exciting (we haven’t lived back together and have yet to spend the night together since we broke up last year).

    At any rate, I’m happy about our sex life. He’s now more responsive about pleasing me too, something he never cared before. I’ve been doing what basically needs to be done to be attractive again to your man (always dress femininely, be gracious and showing appreciation of things he does and that makes me happy, etc.)

    I wonder what you think about sex during reconciliation. We’re not officially back together (he’s still resisting) but I know he can’t afford to lose me. At times I feel things don’t go as fast as I wish it did (I know…I know guys are slow). I do believe though that our sexual relationship is working to bond us closer but at the same time the golden rule out there is a man will less likely to commit as long as he gets sex with no string attached (though I know he’s not seeing anyone else).

    Under opposite circumstances (if he was the one who was more sexual than me) I would have perhaps acted differently. But sex was the main thing I complained about during our marriage and now I have it turned full circle, so it’s a bit crazy if I’m complaining about that now (it just shows women really are never happy lol).

  49.  #49mary on May 3, 2010 at 10:31 pm

    “This” is just the dating scene.

    “This” is just being single. Especially after a couple of long marriages.

    “This” is everything that goes with dating. The awkwardness, the guys who are obviously not matches, the humiliation like Bella was talking about.

    The memory of “this” makes it very difficult to break up with a man, even if he’s not treating us as he should.

  50.  #50mary on May 3, 2010 at 10:32 pm


    I see that I wrote it wrong. I’m the one who said the thing about the thunder… but he hasn’t responded.

    It’s nice when it goes back and forth, eh?

  51.  #51mary on May 3, 2010 at 10:35 pm

    Okay. I might just email him back, in case he is painfully shy.

    But what if he’s not shy?

    He asked me out. He contacts me all the time.

    I think he likes me.

    I like him.

    I’m confused. Standstill. Edge of the cliff. Scared.

    So I’m just gonna go wash some dishes!


  52.  #52Siena on May 3, 2010 at 10:39 pm

    Oh I feel confused and sigh. My #1 client just invited me to her home this weekend for a gala event. I should go because it’s good for business, but I feel so lame going alone! I will only know a couple of people, and I don’t have someone I can take with me. I can’t ask my CDs, it would be awkward. My closest gf who would usually go to things like this with me is out of town. What should I do??

  53.  #53mary on May 3, 2010 at 10:54 pm

    He emailed back!

    Said something about the god of Thor. I emailed him this really cool link:


  54.  #54mary on May 3, 2010 at 11:13 pm

    Oh, relief! We’re talking.

    Thank you!

  55.  #55Georgia on May 3, 2010 at 11:37 pm

    Rori, I am so glad that you have done a post about the sex issue.

    My boyfriend of almost 5 years says he does not fancy me and that there is no chemistry between us and according to him this has been the case since day one (incidentally, the first night we spent together he couldn’t “get it up”) We do have sex, but although he “gets” off, it seems like he is not enjoying it and I definitely don’t, as he does nothing to try and please me, no foreplay, no kissing, no stroking, always from behind. In can’t help but feeling that this is nonsense and the only reason why we have such a bad time is that he cannot let go in sex, needs emotional distance – either by sleeping with someone he doesn’t care about or by sleeping with someone he is in awe but who he feels is unatainable. We on the other hand are emotionally very close, I am the first woman he has really opened up to and he feels loved and accepted by me. Physically speaking we are both very attractive people. He used to be a model when he was younger and I am a slender, gorgeous, leggy woman who gets plenty of attention from men. And in the case of my boyfriend, he was the one who was doing all the pursuing and since when do men pursue women they don’t find attractive? I am in touch with most my ex boyfriends/lovers and all of them would have sex with me without a moment’s hesitation, so it can’t be that I am such a lousy lay. This is putting a huge strain on our relationship. I feel ugly and undesirable with him and this is eroding my self confidence. What is his problem and is there anything I can do about it?

  56.  #56Soignée on May 4, 2010 at 12:11 am

    Oh my God, Georgia, I feel really sorry for you. You, such a beautiful woman, are taking crumbs from this man.Certainly, the best way to heal in this situation is to change the man, not you. I remember a guy I went out. He was a very handsome man, but in 4 months we had sex only 4 times, it was great, but so few times I felt unattractive. And telling the truth, I thought he would arrange more intimate moments, but he did not. It was awful. I definitely do not want to feel the same another time. I do want to feel desirable. Because not feeling desirable, I stop feeling safe and attractive. Not you, Georgia, beatiful gorgeous goddess, have to wait for love moments, but other men will wait for your attention. Oh my God, how the men can affect our self-esteem. Only the men who are capable of considering you a goddess, deserve your attention.
    Please do not accept the crumbs.

  57.  #57Lorelei on May 4, 2010 at 12:39 am

    Rori – re #32 – oh I *love* the sound of the tool called “Be his poem” – I hope you can reintroduce it to us.

    Today I feel hopeful, as something I read on here in another thread helped me to know that the first person I have to be faithful to is myself, even though I feel so threatened by my husband’s impending job move. I feel I have been , unfaithful to myself for so long, and loyal to him more than to him.

    Soooo – I love my unfaithfulness, it is part of me. But I also love my faithfulness to myself. My faithfulness to myself, my loyalty to myself, is like a tiny fetus, that has is growing inside me. And I love this growing, emerging faithfulness to mYself, faithfulness to my best and truest creative, artist, siren self.

  58.  #58Lorelei on May 4, 2010 at 12:43 am

    Dear Siena

    I feel too new to all this to be sure of anything!! But I’m finally beginning to find my way around the different threads on the site, and I love your posts. And I want to say that when I go to work or social things on my own, funnily enough it’s easier to meet people, and easier to concentrate on leaning back, making eye contact and letting people (men and women colleagues/potential clients etc) come forward with their energy to me.

    So if it were me, I would listen to Rori’s voice in the car on the way to the event, and walk in like a goddess. Also other people sometimes approach us more easily when we’re on our own.

    Go for it!

  59.  #59mary on May 4, 2010 at 12:43 am



    There is something you can do about it.

    L E A V E !

    I’m sorry, but that’s how I see it, coming from four years of the same.

    Just leave.

    Even after I said all of the things I said tonight! I still think so.

    Go find another guy who knows you’re gorgeous and have good times again!

    I feel so much prettier since R and I broke up. Actually I’ve felt awful since I saw him on Saturday night. Completely awful! Residue from the past. And I’m just getting over it… that’s how devastating it is to just spend thirty minutes with him. For every ten minutes, it takes me a day to recuperate… in his company I feel so undesirable… I just do!

    Hate for you to feel that way too!


    Don’t keep doing it to yourself. Just take yourself away, to calmer, better waters… that are soothing and peaceful and beautiful.

    Where you can relax, and you’re not TRYING so hard all the time.

    Be good to yourself…

  60.  #60mary on May 4, 2010 at 12:54 am

    Oh, I leaned a tiny bit forward and asked Island Man to “please tell me more about the island…” and he called me on the phone! We talked for about an hour and he asked me if I wanted to do something on Saturday.


    Thanks, sirens.

    What a long time it took him!

    Now, I’m not SO SURE he’s the one. I’m sensing a little tiny pattern here. I’m always ready to just JUMP IN to relationship. I mean, as soon as I like someone, okay! Let’s go!

    And this guy has many feminine mannerisms, and the way he talks is very feminine, and that’s a turnoff, but I have to admit that I like what he says. Very much. We had the greatest conversation! And his energy is very masculine. He has three brothers.




  61.  #61mary on May 4, 2010 at 1:01 am

    When a guy shows his vulnerability to me, I latch onto him. I feel like I’m destined to be with him. I feel attached. I feel like it’s US now. I feel like he can count on me. I feel like I can help…

    This is my big problem.

    How to solve it, how to solve it!

    Oh, YES! I wrote it out! in an email, oh, let me go get it!

  62.  #62mary on May 4, 2010 at 1:05 am

    Okay! Here it is:

    “I see that ________ (or whoever) has had a lot of setbacks in his life, and that’s why he’s facing the challenges he has today. I feel sad about these challenges, but I know that he has it within him to tackle them and to tap into the ultimate resource, should he choose to do so. He doesn’t need me. And I don’t need to step in to love him. God loves him way more than I do. I’ll let Him handle it. And I’m thanking God for helping me with my own challenges.”

    Of course, in my thinking, it goes lightning fast, but I do say this to myself.

  63.  #63Lorelei on May 4, 2010 at 1:11 am

    HI Mary

    I identify with this. I’m also *very* attracted when men show their vulnerability. It makes me feel very close to them, trusted, loved, even.

    I”m practicing feeling messages with my husband (there are difficulties there at the moment), and he is now sharing more of his feelings with me as well. I sometimes wonder if he is more keen to share his feelings than to hear mine, but this might just be the weirdness of how new it all is. But I’m confused about whether a man sharing his feelings is him using his feminine side . . .?

    So maybe, our vulnerability with our feelings invites them to be vulnerable also? And, somewhere, Rori says that once we are stronger and vulnerable, the man feels safer with his feelings . .

  64.  #64Lorelei on May 4, 2010 at 1:13 am

    To have the relationship I want, I want to be his poem, to move him, emotionally, metaphorically, by being his poem.

  65.  #65Bella on May 4, 2010 at 3:38 am

    Thank you Rori, that’s why I felt so drawn to you and this site because you have been there, and you offer hope and solutions that will work.

    I have tried all kinds of therapy, books, and your tools are the only thing that ever really “clicked” in an emotional way, not just my thinking process, they have helped me to finally tap into my inner most feelings as scary as that is to me, you guide in a safe and healing way.

    Sherry, I can totally relate to stuffing down feelings, I’ve been doing that for years and years. Thank you Daria for your advice to Sherry, I will use that tool also.

    It feels good to get this out in the open.
    I feel relieved.

  66.  #66Jilly on May 4, 2010 at 4:58 am

    Hey Goddesses 😉
    I just wanted to say Hi to ya’ll, I’ve been reading the posts for a few weeks now and I’m feeling ready to join in 😉 I have Rori’s ebook and Modern Siren and I’ve just recently started CDing.. this all came about because for the first time in my life I was dating a guy exclusively and he stopped wanting sex after 2 months…I felt confused and bewildered..we broke up soon after…I saw soo many red flags..I feel so excited about everything that Rori teaches…I love reading everything that you guys post..this stuff is amazing 😉

  67.  #67Linda on May 4, 2010 at 5:21 am

    THis is a such a triggering post for me. My marriage was anything but satisfying sexually speaking. It never was right or flowed. Sex was so infrequent and to be honest it all just broke down for lots of reasons. I shut down for the last three years we were together. Inside I was angry, felt betrayed, did not feel sexy, desired. I was unconfident, felt afraid to let myself be open to sharing “me” with anyone. Years of sexless life twisted my reality and I coped in lots of ways.

    Today, three years later I am a much different woman than I was in lots of ways. Reading this post really triggers me! I never want to live the way I lived again.

    I dont want to be angry at men, or distrust them. Just the picture on this post makes me cringe, I feel my jaw tighten.

    I was told by a man that he needed visual stimulation, asked to dress provocatively, come on to him…learn how to give outstanding h*%d…hmmm it was food for thought but frankly you can hire that. I took it to heart though in a way that challanged some yet unexplored feelings inside me. Weeks later I tapped into that energy in me.. tried it out with him… I guess you could call it a big lean forward but I also could be seen as a response too. It felt like a big risk but I went for it. He responded but then shut down. Said he was too stimulated ! Would not let me touch him anymore. Now, I could look at this as a failure or rejection because of what he did but I havent. Instead I see this as a huge hurdle I crossed. I got in touch with a new part of me. HIS stuff is HIS. I did not spend a lot of time wondering or worrying about why he shut down, the point is I didnt and I dont feel bad or inadequate. That is a milestone for me. I celebrate me.


  68.  #68dawn on May 4, 2010 at 5:36 am

    When there are no limits there is no push. When we ALLOW ourselves to really be ourselves there is nothing stopping our happiness . Frustration and anger have no place in my life. I will go over it or around it but I wont be stuck. I wont let any more of my life be taken over . Im walking, maybe alone but im walking on my own.

  69.  #69Michelle on May 4, 2010 at 6:06 am

    Is it possible to be in love with two men at the same time, also do men “feel” the same way…can they be in love with two women at the same time? Also what does it mean when you tell them how you feel, example ” I feel heartsick and stupid” and they say back ” Don’t feel like that because I didn’t mean it like that. That is why this can’t happen. I am trying to protect you.”??? Help Rori..what is he saying to me? We are both commited to other people but we were first loves and have been emailing in the last 10 months ..alot. Is he saying he doesn’t love me?

  70.  #70Ankita on May 4, 2010 at 6:19 am

    Last time I’d a huge mistake by ignoring the most obvious signs.

    1) He stopped initiating sex. (Though gladly had it, once I initiated.)

    2) Was rude. Did talk to me only 5 minutes a day and said that was enough. WTF.

    3) Stopped respecting me, my choices, my desires, my time. I felt like I am the last thing on his priority list.

    In spite of the above signs, which shows, perhaps it’s over, I kept thinking that somehow it may work, despite all these.

    Perhaps, he was there in my life just to show me, that I need to work on myself, learn how to be feminine and how to receive, and above all, HOW TO LOVE MYSELF & PUT MY NEEDS ABOVE ANYTHING ELSE.

    Never again in my life I want to put up with this kind of man ever again. That was perhaps the worst relation of my life. Despite knowing that he was causing me pain, I hung up onto him just like a drug addict, sex made me hung up on him.

    But I have decided, from next time, I’ll have sex only when I am sure the guy loves me, and I feel safe with him. I don’t want to experience this state ever again…


  71.  #71Linda on May 4, 2010 at 6:23 am

    What would be possible in my life if I showed up fully regardless of circumstances? Shined fully, requardless if he was nasty or nice… if he wanted me or not, if he got aroused or not?

    For me… this question from the last post applies here so well.

    So when he stops intiating.. shine anyway. I am not saying stay and put up with it. I didnt…. but instead of internalizing… changing trying to be his source of happiness…shine anyway.

    Instead of withdrawling internally, feeling dejected, undesirable… shine.

    My life has not fit in a pretty box.
    I am focused on me and my passions that are yearning to move in you, as you, through you.
    I gave myself permission to soar regardless of circumstances and outcomes.
    Be Sexy. Be Whole. Be You.

    So when he shuts down.. shine anyway. I am tired of hurting and worring about his whys… They way I feel right now. If he doesnt fit and wont change, or step up or talk about it or care…. THEN HE DOESNT FIT!

    Walking on too.


  72.  #72Ankita on May 4, 2010 at 6:30 am


    Hey…!!! Your post did trigger me….

    OMG… You are truly empowered…!!

    I really appreciate the way how you… I mean… how even after going this, you put yourself together, and moved on, in a new direction and a better direction….

    Congrats girl…..!!! 🙂

  73.  #73Ankita on May 4, 2010 at 6:33 am


    I am gonna copy this sentence…. This sentence has the potential to save a million heartbreak. This is great. I love this.

    ‘They way I feel right now. If he doesn’t fit and wont change, or step up or talk about it or care…. THEN HE DOESNT FIT!’

  74.  #74Melissa on May 4, 2010 at 8:22 am


    Okay I am going for it… find out if this “love of my life” is really a toxic man. I ordered Toxic Men and I cannot wait to get it. I absolutely cannot stay in this place anymore. Thank you, I can’t wait to get it and will let you know how it goes.

  75.  #75Turtle Girl on May 4, 2010 at 8:30 am

    Hi Mary-
    I Love your comments in #48 about “this” – yeah-no kidding-the dating world, men, sex, lack thereof, feelings, disappointments, the whole nine yards—wow.

    In my younger days it was never this hard. I never had any trouble attracting men or keeping them. Now I can attract them, but they all seems to fade away do to one effed up reason or another. I guess this is just part of getting old, people have lived a bit of life, are more beat up and more broken, me included. oye.

    Ankita- this is great:
    “Never again in my life I want to put up with this kind of man ever again. That was perhaps the worst relation of my life. Despite knowing that he was causing me pain, I hung up onto him just like a drug addict, sex made me hung up on him.”

    I totally feel the same way-never again in my life do I want the kind of man I had. I have stayed with me who gave great sex, but were awful in every other way. I have stayed with men who are nice, but there is not sex and they are screwed up over Mommy or whatever issue they had, and I can’t fix em.

    I have stayed with men who were terrible sexually and terrible emotionally. Although that has been a long time on that one. I feel like I am totally tired of relationships that don’t work for whatever reason.

    I do not want a man who can’t love and desire me.
    I do not want a man who treats me badly, verbally or is cold emotionally. I don’t want an indifferent man. It seems that each CD guy I meet is great one way but not the other. I want to take the good parts of each man and stick them together and make one good man, ha!

    A good male buddy of mine called me last night and we talked for two hours. He is having the same problems with women. They are either cold to him, treat him mean in some way and put him down or he can’t even get a date. He has been rejected a lot, and this is a man who is a good man, not bad looking and loves women. I felt really bad for him.
    And the women who treat him rudely trigger me, and makes it harder for me as a women to get a good man. He said he was just ready to throw in the towel and give up!!! We lean back and so does he. He said he has been so battered emotionally by women he just can’t do it anymore. I did not know what to say.

  76.  #76mary on May 4, 2010 at 8:40 am


    “Shine anyway.”

    Possible sometimes. Not possible sometimes.

    I did try to do this. It was like pretending that I didn’t even know those people in the suite across the courtyard, when they were my husband and his girlfriend. Sometimes the magic worked, and sometimes it didn’t. Now that they don’t live there, I feel totally different about the lights going on and off over there, and I know that I wasn’t ever really fooling myself.

    Here’s what I think:

    If you want to stay with the guy, whenever you’re around him, “Shine,” even if it’s an act. Just act happy. That is Homer Mcdonald’s advice, and I believe it works.

    And I would limit contact, because this is going to take lots and lots of energy from you.

    It’s terrible that he’s withdrawing from you. If you’re happy anyway, it shows that you have another source of happiness than him, and it lets him off the hook. He needs to feel less pressured, which is why he’s backing off. And it makes him wonder if he’s being effective. Maybe the signal of no sex doesn’t work on you! He doesn’t know. It confuses him.

    That’s fine. Let him be confused! And I agree with Rori: the only solution is to date others.

    I did exactly this, and it didn’t work. Last time he was with me, he said that breaking up with me was the most disappointing thing that had ever happened in his life. (As if he had no way to salvage it! It HAD to be done.) AND he said “Maybe I was your dad and you were my mom.”

    Okay, that did it for me. I walked away and felt pretty turned off. I’m not going to spend another ten minutes with him. He always says things that hurt me.

    Shining when you’re around a man who is withdrawing costs so much energy. If you don’t spend time with him, you’ll find that your radiance comes right back and flows through you naturally. That’s what other men can do for you, too!

    So… I have been in your situation, and I wish I had just dated others, still dated him, and been truly happy most of the time. Figured out who made me feel the happiest and spent the most time with that person. And lesser and lesser amounts of time with “him.”

  77.  #77tinque on May 4, 2010 at 8:40 am

    “So guys can get hookers, porn, dolls that can be positioned in any way they want to fuck. And none of this is a real woman with a real voice with real needs. Very emotionally dead. I find it really disturbing on so many levels. I wonder what Tinique has to say about all that.”

    Yes Turtle Girl all of this IS disturbing.
    But hookers have been around from the beginning, porn almost so. Though now with the ease of accessibility with the internet, there has been an increase in porn addiction, I would venture to say more so with younger men.
    Porn doll and life like vaginas are a major ick, but if a guy is that lonely, hey, who am I to judge.
    I would venture to say with this one that the men who avail themselves of these items are in a tiny minority and very likely emotionally damaged, unable to or rather unwilling to engage with a real woman.
    All that said, though porn addiction appears to be on the rise, the vast majority of men who view porn, and this is most men, ARE NOT addicted.
    Some have more of a habit than others, but as long as they are able to function normally in their day to day lives, as long as their women are taken care of and are not overly bothered by it, then it’s okay to the extent that they have a handle on it. They have proper perspective on it.
    Most men can clearly distinguish between the buzz they get from a two-dimensional image and the full-bodied response they feel when with a real woman, their woman.

  78.  #78tinque on May 4, 2010 at 8:43 am

    “A good male buddy of mine called me last night and we talked for two hours”

    Turtle Girl – Would you consider dating this guy? He sounds good for you.

  79.  #79tinque on May 4, 2010 at 8:44 am

    Linda – Awesome. How about getting some sexy pictures taken now. Make an album, or put them on a disc, save to your hard drive.

  80.  #80Brenda on May 4, 2010 at 8:50 am

    Daria, I really like what you said about not pushing. I have broken away from the same pressure in my life. I spend a lot of time thinking, sensing, feeling, processing. I stare into space for an hour or eight at will. I am far more an internal person than an external person.

    The most intelligent person I ever met was a U.S. attorney, and I had a most unusual convo with him for over an hour. He told me he spends a lot of time thinking. That was in 1990, and ever since, it gave me validation to spend my time that way and KNOW it is valuable. I am NOT wasting time. And if anyone tries to PUSH me and tell me I am lazy, I pretty much just walk away and go spend time laying under a picnic table, listening to the termites eat the wood, while I think, feel, sense, and BE.

  81.  #81Turtle Girl on May 4, 2010 at 8:51 am


    Re your @54-My ex always “did it from behind”, never wanting to look me in the eye. There is something really really wrong with this. My take was he was emotionally dead, unable and unwilling to do intimacy.
    The doggy style felt so awful to me, I started to feel like nothing but an object, a shell, a whore, a piece of meat. The eyes are the window to the soul and he never wanted to look in them during sex.

    At times I would initiate sex, kissing him, touching him, being very tender, loving, etc. and he would just freaking sit there like a cold stone. NO RESPONSE. I finally realized this is not normal by any stretch of the imagination.

    This man sound toxic, just like mine was and it always ends badly and he will never satisfy you if you car about yourself at all.

  82.  #82Brenda on May 4, 2010 at 8:55 am

    An additional related thot:

    WHO I am is far more important than HOW MUCH I earn!

  83.  #83Simply Shannon on May 4, 2010 at 8:56 am

    Mary: OMGoodness!

    This. Wow. I am copying it and tattooing it on my arm for reference. Gulp.

    “I see that ________ (or whoever) has had a lot of setbacks in his life, and that’s why he’s facing the challenges he has today. I feel sad about these challenges, but I know that he has it within him to tackle them and to tap into the ultimate resource, should he choose to do so. He doesn’t need me. And I don’t need to step in to love him. God loves him way more than I do. I’ll let Him handle it. And I’m thanking God for helping me with my own challenges.”

    I have to prepare a speech for Mr. Fab Kisser tonight (in response to his letter asking me to consider marrying him). I don’t want to marry someone I have to fix, someone who is still so angry at his ex wife, someone who hasn’t surrender his life to God. I know he can fix this and I soooo want to help but I believe now that I am standing in his way. He can’t see God because he’s seeing me. That feels really sad for me personally but I feel happy for him to get that clarity and that relationship with God. I know he won’t see it that way. I know he will be devastated if I stop seeing him but *I* can’t see any other way.

    I don’t want to be distracted from my own relationship with God in an effort to help him.

    I feel selfish but this is me giving to me and him THE most important thing ever… a relationship with God first.

    Okay. Thank you Mary for posting that post. I really needed to read it today. Thank you God for Mary.

  84.  #84Brenda on May 4, 2010 at 8:58 am


    1. Of living things: relating to, derived from, or characteristic of living things
    2. Developing naturally: occurring or developing gradually and naturally, without being forced or contrived
    3. Intrinsic: forming a basic and inherent part of something and largely responsible for its identity or makeup
    4. Naturally efficiently organized: being made of parts that exist together in a seemingly natural relationship that makes for organized efficiency
    5. Natural, whole, unrefined, untreated

    I like it that Rori uses the word “organic” a lot. I looked it up, and it’s worth thot time! LOL!

  85.  #85mary on May 4, 2010 at 8:59 am

    Hi Turtle Girl,

    I hear your frustration.

    Do you think the sexual revolution has anything to do with it? In the olden days I really don’t think free sex was as prolific as it is now. I think more women held out until marriage. That’s what my mom says, anyway. She says that everyone dated lots of guys because sex wasn’t an issue! She was never pressured for sex. It just wasn’t done. And when things got hot and heavy, it meant the guy was seriously considering a ring, and yes! the ring really was soon to follow. It happened to her, and to all her friends, exactly that way.

    And now, not only is sex for free, the ability to find available partners has increased dramatically. With so many people lining up behind you, why would he have to choose you? Maybe someone better is just around the corner… it’s easy these days to be casual about people and focused on ourselves rather than on what is best for everyone.

    I don’t think it’s that we’re older. I think it’s that things have changed.

    We must figure out if we want to change too, or hold on to what is true for us.

    There will be men out there who have the same frustrations. I’ve already met some! And they’re just as lonely as we are, hoping for true love. Wanting a mate. Wishing for forever.

    And we are the choosers now!

    It’s a brave new world. I’m going to help myself to the availability and keep my sexual boundaries. That way maybe I can weed out the guys who are wanting only sex from me. And give them something to do! They must win my affection, and that’s different… and reminiscent of the days of their youth for men who are my age. And it gives me more clarity while I’m choosing.

    !! ? !

  86.  #86Turtle Girl on May 4, 2010 at 9:05 am


    Thank you for your comments regarding porn etc. You are most likely right-the percentage of men who are screwed up over porn and actually buy these weird lifelike dolls are more than likely in the minority. I mean that is really pretty sick if that is your companion as opposed to a real woman.

    As far as the guy who is my pal, he lives in a different state. We dated over twenty years ago and have been just buddies for years and years now.
    So-not gonna happen. I love him as a friend and am grateful to have him in my life. *sigh*

    I do however have a another male buddy I have considered many times. He has told me there is a standing invitation to come and get laid! lol

    Cough-cough…ahem…..I am not sure I want to go there though. Not sure how I could handle the whole “fuck buddy” relationship thing. So I haven’t pulled the trigger on that just yet. However, if this whole men all impotent thing continues, I joked with him that I just might be knocking on his door…..lol……….I mean, a gal can only go so long and not want to put a railroad spike into her brain…..lol…….servicing yourself is fine, but it just ain’t the real thing……….no-I want a fully functioning real man live and in person……..I don’t want a doll………ok-enough—gotta go actually do some work today…..love to all the wonderful sirens on this site.

    and thanks again Tinque-always appreciate your input sweetie.xxxooo to ya

  87.  #87Simply Shannon on May 4, 2010 at 9:07 am

    Daria: I love the “I don’t want to push” post. That felt so true. I’m learning that lesson myself. I see so many of people on the hamster wheel, running their little legs off, trying their best to be the best. And while I feel admiration for what they are doing, I also feel judgmental and apathetic about it.

    I worked so hard.

    I got the big house.

    I got the 2 kids.

    I got the cool job.

    I had some great times along the way but I look back and a lot of what I “got” was stuff that now clutters my big house.

    I want to sell my big house and live in some small space that doesn’t cost very much.

    I want to go on adventures with my 2 kids and show them the world.

    I want my “job” to be helping people or maybe I want to work to make enough money to support my family minimally and be able to give away most of that money to help people. Phew. 🙂 I want clarity on this one God. Reveal this to me please. Thank you.

    I want to develop strong relationships with my friends and family.

    I want to feel honest and courageous and vulnerable with everyone, not just men.

    I do not want to push myself to do things that others may judge as “good” or “worthwhile”.

  88.  #88Turtle Girl on May 4, 2010 at 9:08 am

    Oh honey I really hear what you are saying. Arrrggghh!!! I HAVE to get off this box and go to work. I will write more to you later. xxooo

  89.  #89Brenda on May 4, 2010 at 9:21 am

    Sherry, RE: #20 – How to Feel

    Hello, I was so shut down by my family growing up that I subconsciously believed I didn’t have a right to feel or think. I didn’t know who I was, because I was who I was told to be.

    It all struck me front and center at around age 25. My counselor said, “Just be you!”, and I said from a distance,

    “I don’t know who I am!”

    I went home and studied the mirror. There seemed to be clouds over my eyes, like I was looking at a stranger, and I couldn’t see inside.

    I lived in a blackhole, and loneliness, sadness, and depression were the closest I could come to an identity. Much of my life has been a process of learning how to feel, think, and be. Now I guard that precious growth like a child, because it IS a child…Brenda, my heart.

    Sherry, it is a process over time, and I found what helped me significantly is journaling. Then I saw my thots and feelings in black and white. It got them out of that nebulous, unidentifiable void inside. To journal HERE, on this happening blog, is even more healing, because then we get response, and it is so healing and informative. We share our life experience as feeling, alive women, the good, the bad, and the ugly…and we learn to love all of ourselves, while we are all in process.

    I learned to take myself aside when I was feeling upset or off-kilter, close my eyes, and ask myself like a counselor, “How do you feel right now?”

    If “I don’t know” popped into my mind, since this was a new skill, I’d ask myself, “Why don’t you know?”

    “Cuz I’m not allowed to feel. I’m not sposta feel. I feel just a black void inside.”

    Then I’d keep probing myself, “Why do you feel a black void?”

    “Cuz I’m lonely. Cuz I’m cut down every time I open my mouth.”

    I’d again ask myself, “How does that feel?”

    “Terrible. I feel so isolated. I feel like an alien on earth. I feel like crying.”

    “Why do you feel like crying?”

    “Cuz I just do. Cuz I feel rejected,…”

    You get the idea. I’d carry on a full conversation with myself, and eventually, I’d get those feelings flowing! Now I am about 75% fluent in feeling my moment. I still find myself holding back when I’m in conversation, and then I identify that I fear being yelled at, from childhood. Little by little, I’m learning to VOICE my feelings, right in the midst of conversation. I feel so genuine and validated and worthwhile and empowered when I do.

    For a while, I went overboard, freely swearing at people and being sarcastic (the ugly cousin of anger). I have learned to temper that, little by little, and say something more productive such as, “I feel angry right now.”

    These days when I study the mirror, I see a knows-who-she-is woman with clear eyes that look back with sharp intelligence, tempered with unconditional love. I love my feelings. I love all of me. I ask God to help me love the parts I don’t always feel love for.

  90.  #90Brenda on May 4, 2010 at 9:31 am

    Turtle Girl, RE: #30 – Real Dolls

    Hehehe! Naughty Bren has shed her anger in the past by referring men to those stupid lifesize dolls made for sex! When a man gets upset at me for (Oh, you horrible bitch!) daring to voice my feelings? I say, “You know, maybe it isn’t a real woman you want. Maybe you ought to check out real dolls. Then you could fuck a woman any old time you wanted and you wouldn’t have to deal with her thots and feelings!”

    Of course, this is an exit speech to a toxic man who I never want to see again! LOL! Mean Bren! 🙂

  91.  #91tinque on May 4, 2010 at 9:34 am

    Turtle Girl – It’s been bothering me since yesterday when I read your post about the string of impotent men in your life right now.
    I don’t have any brilliant thoughts, but I do find it interesting.
    What is this message?
    I could ask are you feeling impotent in your own life, and I mean aside from sexually? Are you holding yourself back from anything? Are you feeling blocked? Stuck?
    It is true, oh so true that alone is okay, nice even, but with someone is leaps and bounds better and more especially if you have a deep bond with each other.

  92.  #92Siena on May 4, 2010 at 9:42 am

    Hugs and love to all you sirens dealing with strong triggers on this post!

    And thank you Lorelei for responding to my post!

    I’ve decided that this gala event for me is where the rubber meets the road. Me not going to that event alone is a big deal to me, and it’s a test to see how much faith I can have in letting things naturally happen while I’m leaning back.

    I will not force anything, I will just lean back and let everything organically (thank you Bren!) happen. Sink into it (thank you Daria and Rori!) instead of pushing it. And see what happens! I need to feel taken care of at this point, and I have faith that it will happen for me.

  93.  #93diamond on May 4, 2010 at 9:54 am

    I think about CD and I feel sad.

    I feel like I have nothing to give a man.

  94.  #94Brenda on May 4, 2010 at 9:58 am

    Siena, Your gala event is a stellar opportunity to shine like a star! Because you won’t have a date by your side, it is an optimal moment to meet new men! Date yourself! Doll up and impress…..Siena!

    You go, girl!

  95.  #95Brenda on May 4, 2010 at 10:01 am

    P.S. Siena, I used to feel really conspicuous alone at stuff like that, and I just kept putting myself out there. I made it my goal to meet as many new people as I could or, if you just wanna lean back (I NEEDED to immerse myself in the scary world of people), you could make it your goal to make as much eye contact as you can. But I’m sure you know what to do.

  96.  #96Siena on May 4, 2010 at 10:04 am

    Bren, I might just do that (go alone). But there’s the added element of appearing stable and established at my #1 client’s event. Her contract is really large, and I don’t feel comfortable going to the event without appearing like I have my act together.

    This is where my business life is being affected by my personal life, and I’m trusting that it will all come together for me. 🙂

  97.  #97Rori Raye on May 4, 2010 at 10:04 am

    tinque – This is brilliant: “I could ask are you feeling impotent in your own life, and I mean aside from sexually? Are you holding yourself back from anything? Are you feeling blocked? Stuck?” Totally brilliant. Tinque – this is a place so many women are at now, with so many men having sexual and other difficulties….and I think you’ve hit on and articulated the key to this. I hope you write a new book about it, with this title…I’ll talk with you about it…Love, Rori

  98.  #98mary on May 4, 2010 at 10:05 am

    Simply Shannon,

    How wonderful for this Mr. Fab Kisser that YOU are writing him a letter! Your letter will be beautifully worded with deep content, and I know he’ll cherish it forever.

    One thing that you mentioned is that you’re seeing the benefits of the breakup for him. Could I encourage you to only mention why it’s good for you? When R and I broke up, he mentioned the benefits to me, and I didn’t like hearing them. I would rather have heard WHY, WHY, WHY, WHY, WHY he had to break up with me. I wish he had let ME be in charge of benefits to ME.

    You know?

    Just thinkin.

  99.  #99Brenda on May 4, 2010 at 10:05 am

    Here’s how I decided to handle the porn thing from now on. If I get the feeling the man I’m with is into porn, I will challenge him to view nude art instead, which isn’t perverted. I will celebrate the beauty of the human body with him. I will comment how beautiful a woman is to him when she passes by. I don’t want to be one of those women who feels insecure and jealous of every other pretty woman. I want him to feel validated as a man, and it is organic for a man to feel good when he sees a woman’s body. So I will let him know I can take it, and challenge him to take it, too, when I rave about the build of a handsome man!

  100.  #100Brenda on May 4, 2010 at 10:08 am


    And who’s to say that being single ISN’T stable? I love myself, whether I am at a man’s side or by myself.

    I hear you, and of course do what feels right to you. I challenge you to rethink your singleness. Is that a social stigma you are allowing to control you? Are you less of a woman because you go to bed alone most nights?

  101.  #101Rori Raye on May 4, 2010 at 10:13 am

    Autumn, Welcome, and thank you so much for your comment – I’m jumping off of it into a post called “Sex With Ex – Hoping For Re-Commitment” – it’ll be out in roughly a week, hope it’s helpful….there’s just so much to say here….for now, just keep doing what you’re doing…and get completely OUT of the “complaining” frame of mind (I’ll tell you more about why in the post) as best you can. Focus your attention on you and your work and life and fun, and see if you can get “whatever…” about him. Love, Rori

  102.  #102Brenda on May 4, 2010 at 10:14 am

    Also about the nude body…when it cums to men, I prefer tall, muscular men. I have been with tall, muscular men who were total jerks. I am no longer fixated on a man’s body. It is low on my priority list for a partner. Ryan was all kinds of insecure about his skinniness and lack of muscle tone. Even tho I didn’t prefer it, it wasn’t even an issue to me in comparison to his beautiful mind and sensitivity.

    So when I admire a handsome hunk, I am NOT putting down my man, even if he’s skinny or what-have-you. I am simply admiring God’s creation as an act of worship. At least, that’s the way I see it.

    I admit, I do see a difference when it cums to admiring sexual parts. I don’t gape at men’s penises. I only desire to see the penis of my man. I don’t know if that makes sense.

  103.  #103mary on May 4, 2010 at 10:15 am

    Hey Brenda!

    Some things about being single are so wonderful! I’m loving these things. I’m almost sad about these things, cherishing them now and thinking I’ll have to say goodbye to them!

    *2 am drives to the ocean to see the moon on the water

    just sandwiches for weeks on end

    saying “yes” without any consultation! (BIG ONE!)

    counting on time alone

    Being single = Not so terrible!

  104.  #104Brenda on May 4, 2010 at 10:16 am


    How can I find full resolution of all that confuses and hurts me from my last relationship with Ryan, if he refuses to discuss it?

  105.  #105Brenda on May 4, 2010 at 10:17 am

    Hi Mary, Yes, there are pros and cons to both sides! What I say when married people tell me to cherish my singleness is, “Give me the complications over loneliness anyday.” I feel you, tho! And many days I enjoy it!

  106.  #106mary on May 4, 2010 at 10:18 am


    Listen to Rori’s tapes! Read Evan’s new eBook! Read anything and everything you can find!

    Sex is not the thing that a man is really going for in a woman. Being sexually satisfied is a have-to-have, but you can do that, can’t you? What a man wants is to be near you, so he can experience the things that have been socialized into his unconscious. He needs YOU, Diamond, to bring them to the surface so he can enjoy them. He needs you to experience himself fully.

    Sounds like you’re feeling pain. I’m sad thinking about that.

    Love, Mary

  107.  #107Siena on May 4, 2010 at 10:19 am

    “And who’s to say that being single ISN’T stable? ”

    Haha, Bren LOTS of people! I feel good about myself, I really do. But I also want to be a smart business woman, and part of being a smart business woman is presenting myself in a way that does not raise any red flags for my clients.

    If this were just a party with some friends, I would totally go. Or just an event that was random, I would go. I eat out alone, I go to movies alone, I show up at parties alone – I’m good with all of that.

    But I’m thinking smart business here now also. This is my boy, making sure my girl is well-taken care of so that ‘he’ doesn’t lose his company. 😉

  108.  #108mary on May 4, 2010 at 10:20 am

    away and on with my day… nice chatting.

  109.  #109Jennifer on May 4, 2010 at 10:26 am

    I am starting to feel wierd about my friday night fling, C.
    I thought my money friend knew him. She does not. She was talking to him at the bar and introduced us and I just assumed that she knew him. Not so.
    But she tells me he’s a major. A MAJOR!?!?!?!??!!??!
    Now I feel freaked out.
    I don’t have anything in common with a Major…well except that ONE thing (teee heeee)
    He asked for my number and I gave him the cell assuming he was just being polite and had no intention of calling…but she says she’s sure he’ll call.
    What if he calls me? Whatever would I talk about with a major?
    I feel a little wierd about this.

  110.  #110Simply Shannon on May 4, 2010 at 10:27 am

    Mary: Brilliant. Yes, about me. Not about what I need in him. Simply brilliant Mary. Thank you.

    Brenda: I continue to feel amazed by your posts.

    Sienna: It might actually serve your boy better to be alone at the party and able to network and stand on your own feet without a “crutch”. That way you can focus on your business and not have to worry about being a girl while you’re working. I know where you’re coming from though and feel empathy. It’s a difficult decision when mixing business and personal.

    I feel bad for not addressing others just yet. I’m catching emails here and there inbetween work. Love to you all!

  111.  #111Simply Shannon on May 4, 2010 at 10:29 am

    Jennifer: What does being a major have to do with anything? What does that mean to you? What are the feelings?

    I am worthy. I am beautiful. I desire MAJOR love. 😉

  112.  #112Brenda on May 4, 2010 at 10:34 am

    Simply Shannon, thank you!!

    Siena, I hear you, and I like what Shannon said. How bout a quick date from the strictly platonic section of craigslist? I don’t need to suggest anything. You’re a big girl, and you know you could have a date 7 days a week of you chose.

    Jennifer, umm, what’s a “major”?

  113.  #113Siena on May 4, 2010 at 10:37 am

    A “major” turn on! Jennifer, I feel excited for you! Just lean back and let him figure out what to talk about – you don’t have to worry about that part at all. 🙂

    Thanks Shannon and Bren, I’m just gonna let this happen organically. I have submitted my request, and now I just am gonna lean back and watch it unfold. Maybe by this weekend I’ll be feeling very adamant about going alone … time will tell!

  114.  #114Brenda on May 4, 2010 at 10:46 am

    Siena, I like your organic plan! Not related, but just a funny thot…

    I like my orgasmic plans, too! LOL!

    Let those leaning back womanly passion juices flow, and it will happen…I’m learning!

  115.  #115Catherine on May 4, 2010 at 11:06 am

    What a hot topic. Rori, thanks for your coments. No, he is definitely not gay. I may be exhibiting too much male energy, don’t know. I will try and scale that back, Being an eldest of 8, single mom to 3 and a business owner, that male energy comes so very naturally to me. Since I will see him so much this summer because of our shared sport, sailing. I am planning to just let it go and enjoy him and enjoy the summer. We have a lot of plans. I’ve given myself until October, end of sailing season, to resolve this. I’ve made it clear to him what I want and I’ve agreed to be patient. It may be that he just doesn’t find me attractive enough, but my male biz partner who knows him, doesn’t buy that either. He thinks it’s his way of defending his shattered male ego. Sexual performance is pretty important to a man. His manliness has been pretty beaten up in the last 8 years and as he regains himself, his sexuality may come back. If not, I’ve already given him the I can’t live the rest of my life in a sexless marriage speech, so the ball is really in his court. In the meantime, I am trying to become unattached to outcome, take care of myself and just have a fun summer. Thanks for this site and for all of your very excellent advice and support.

  116.  #116Rori Raye on May 4, 2010 at 11:09 am

    Michelle – yes, I believe it’s possible to be in love with MANY men at the same time. A committed relationship is a completely different thing. Here’s the thing – I do not believe it’s possible to be in a committed relationship with one man and have anything to do with another. If what you want is to have relationships with two men – then you must make sure you’re honest with the man you’re committed to – get uncommitted, talk about polyamory, or heal the relationship you’re in. Playing with this other man is like a “Plan B” for you – and that will never work the way you want. It would be impossible to trust anyone who is cheating on someone else. Sorry to be unencouraging – but you have to make a decision here. And this new man is only an email man. As far as he’s concerned, you’re unavailable, and that makes it easy for him to say whatever he says about love…and he says clearly “This can’t happen.” Believe him. Love, Rori

  117.  #117Rori Raye on May 4, 2010 at 11:10 am

    Jilly, Welcome – and thank you so much for your story. I’ll be looking to see what happens for you! Love, Rori

  118.  #118Brenda on May 4, 2010 at 11:16 am

    I feel vulnerable cuz I let myself show too much of myself too soon here on Siren Island. That is a social blunder I make all too often in my loneliness.

    I appreciate you all working with me, and I am most definitely in process. I feel like I’m growing rapidly here.

  119.  #119Jennifer on May 4, 2010 at 11:16 am

    Major, as in has attained the rank of Major in the Canadian forces. Freaky.
    SS: It means that this is a MAN..not a boy. Majors traditinally have seen combat. Lead troops. Etc. Know what I mean?
    B was a 2lt. Just a little guy on the ranking scale. This guy WAY out ranks him.
    I guess it really isn’t my job to figure out what to talk about if he calls.
    I just feel freaked out.

  120.  #120diamond on May 4, 2010 at 11:23 am

    Mary, I do feel sad. I feel broken. I feel afraid I will be discarded when my husband gets tired of me.

    I feel hopeless of ever having anyone love me for who I am. I feel a lot of grief.

    I will try to be like Daria and love my grief.

  121.  #121Linda on May 4, 2010 at 11:26 am

    Tinque…. In reguards to the picture thing… I think I am gonna do just that. I felt hot and sexy dressed like I was. You know how hard we are on ourselves. I think some pics of me that I actually like will be a huge booster.

    Mary… you are right it does take a lot of energy to “shine anyway” I know it. The more I focus on me and look at the person (like you with R) for the reality of it all. THere is a lot less pretending and alot more real shining in my life happening.


  122.  #122Brenda on May 4, 2010 at 11:31 am


    Okay, got it. When you said that, it reminded me of my naivete in high school. During gym class, a girl asked me, “Are you a stoney?” I said, “No, I’m a _MY_L_A_S_T__N_A_M_E_.” She laughed and gossiped with her friends until they were all laffing at me cuz I thot “stoney” was a last name.

    Congratulations! I hope you go meet him with the confidence and glowing beauty of the more-than-worthy siren you are!! Just think, he’s so lucky he actually gets to have a date with a…A…SIREN!!!!

    Go, Sirens! Go, Girl Power! LOL! 🙂

  123.  #123Brenda on May 4, 2010 at 11:46 am


    I love your name, and it’s one of my favorite girl names! Just think, you are worth far more than a sparkly rock!

    Let me tell you a cool, true story! Last fall, my friend, Chris, was in really rough shape financially. With her language barrier, she couldn’t find a job. She and her two children were homeless for 11 months, living at one friend’s home and then another. She met a man, Mr. E, thru an ad for a live-in housekeeper, and she came away all excited, telling me about him for 2 hours!

    Next day, she texted me, “I am busy…packing to go to Europe! And you are invited!” I thot Mr. E had invited her to go to Europe, and she was being whimsical as I often knew her to be!

    My heart leaped in excitement, and I texted her back, “Whaaat?? When are you going? Where are you going? For how long? Are you sure it’s okay if I go??”

    I was in suspense, at work, and a half hour went by. Silence. Well, she DID say she was busy packing.

    “Chris, the suspense is killing me! Talk to me! What’s going on??”

    I started daydreaming about Europe, thinking how close I was to my dream coming true, to tour Europe. I started to think about what I was going to wear, and who I could leave my dogs with.

    Finally she texted me back, “I have a very good imagination!”

    Then I started laughing to myself! She was imagining the whole thing! Ya know what? My heart didn’t stop pounding! The actual excitement of taking a major vacation to other countries remained with me the entire day!

    Later I spent some time with her and we discussed the experience. I said, “NOW I understand what you mean when you said to speak it into existence! Even tho it was just imaginary, I experienced all the true emotions as if it were true!”

    So we started talking about our future trip to Europe, just to bring it into existence.

    Diamond, I have spent many years in debilitating, clinical depression. I feel you. I have been off of anti-depressants for going on two years because I have learned the secret of the power of our thought, beliefs, and words. They have the power of life and death in them! I have learned the value of speaking joy, peace, joy, excitement, joy, love, joy, success, and joy into my life!

    Rori’s visualization and affirmation tools are prime examples: “I am water, flowing and feeling.” “I am the first domino that falls, that causes all the other dominos to fall.” And so on.

    The ultimate reality is the spoken word.

    Look deep inside, and when you locate the sadness, give it a vacation, and enjoy the simple things.”

  124.  #124Brenda on May 4, 2010 at 11:51 am

    Diamond, P.S….

    I am NOT at ALL trying to invalidate your feelings of sadness and hopelessness. It is VERY HEALING to simply be in touch with those feelings. I am glad you feel free to express yourself here.

  125.  #125diamond on May 4, 2010 at 12:37 pm

    I have been depressed before and speaking about it makes it better. I went and made a cake which I have never done before. 🙂

    Brenda, I really don’t understand what your point was.

  126.  #126diamond on May 4, 2010 at 12:37 pm

    Oh and thank you but diamond is not my real name, it’s a metaphor. 🙂

  127.  #127Brenda on May 4, 2010 at 12:48 pm


    Of course it’s a metaphor, I guessed that. I still like the name, tho!

    My point is to gently, gradually, for increasing amounts of time, choose to replace your soundtrack inside with positive feeling and thinking messages. I have found that my feelings follow my thoughts.

    For a simple example, last night I was at my brother’s house, eating strawberry shortcake with his family and my cousins. My nephew pulled out his pet snake as a conversation piece. I am not a fan of furless animals, and I felt grossed out just seeing the thing. Then his mother, my sister-in-law, is talking about feeding the snake “mouse-cicles”, frozen baby mice.

    I felt instantly nauseated, just by the thot of that, and the snake eating the poor little mousies. I said, “Let’s talk about strawberries and whipped cream, okay?” They respectfully shifted the conversation, and I rapidly felt happy again.

    Yes, I, too, find it therapeutic to write and/or say my feelings, even the yucky depressed, sad, hopeless feelings. I encourage you to let it fly!

    I have found that gradually, gently replacing those feelings with positive, happy thoughts and feelings organically produces those happy, successful feelings that will transform you into an increasingly beautiful, desireable siren. Just reading this blog lifts my spirits!

  128.  #128Daria on May 4, 2010 at 12:58 pm

    I gape at men’s penises! =)


  129.  #129Daria on May 4, 2010 at 1:06 pm

    but not randomly really

  130.  #130mary on May 4, 2010 at 1:07 pm

    Daria, daria! There is only one Daria.

  131.  #131mary on May 4, 2010 at 1:09 pm


    It seems to me like you’re thinking about what your husband might be thinking, and you’re wondering what his next actions will be.

    How about thinking about what YOU think of your husband, and what YOUR next actions will be?

  132.  #132mary on May 4, 2010 at 1:12 pm

    a date with D at 3!
    should be interesting.
    he said, “and I look like my picture.”
    and i took that to mean, “and you better look like yours.”

    well, i did do some photoshop on my picture.
    not much though!
    mostly i just blurred the background.

    i’ll let you know!

  133.  #133Brenda on May 4, 2010 at 1:20 pm

    Boys have penises.
    Girls have vaginas.
    Boys like to stick their penises in girls’ vaginas.

  134.  #134Georgia on May 4, 2010 at 1:28 pm

    Gosh, I am so in awe of all you wonderful women out there. You give me tremedous courage to go on.

  135.  #135Brenda on May 4, 2010 at 1:42 pm

    Georgia, RE: #55 – Here’s an idea about what you can do about the bad bedroom energy, altho I’m not sure if it’s right…

    Maybe create some distance next time he makes a move to make love. Maybe say something like, “I don’t want to make love with you, because when we do, I don’t FEEL loved. I feel neglected. What do you think?”

    Be silent and let him respond. Of course his response influences what you say next. If he’s open to discuss it, fantastic. Continue with feeling messages, something like, “I don’t enjoy our times in bed. I want to be with a man who connects with me, soul-to-soul in bed.” or

    “I feel lonely when we make love. It would feel so good to be held.” or

    “I feel sad when we make love. I want to feel desired in bed. What can we do about it?”

  136.  #136Brenda on May 4, 2010 at 1:47 pm

    Georgia, P.S. – When I say create some distance, I mean let him know you are not willing to be treated less than a goddess. My last man would lean back and try to get me to do all the backrubbing, stroking, etc. If I had it to do over, I would have just layed there with my back to him or something like that. Because he ignored me when I gave feeling messages about it.

  137.  #137Nikita on May 4, 2010 at 1:48 pm

    New here…
    Amazed by all the post I’ve read. Married with a good guy for almost 15 yrs. We have 3 kids. I found out he cheated on me 6 months ago. He apologized but now I feel like I will never recover the trust in him again. I used to feel guilt that I was the one who made him cheat on me since I have become a MOM and forgot to be a wife (on the sexual side). I already turned that page. I feel very good with my self and cheating was just an excuse for him. Not feeling guilt anymore.

  138.  #138Brenda on May 4, 2010 at 1:49 pm

    P.P.S. – So I kept overfunctioning, thinking if I touch him, he’ll touch me. Not! Still learning to lean back, both emotionally AND physically.

  139.  #139Simply Shannon on May 4, 2010 at 2:13 pm

    Jennifer: Holy shit girl! You started CDing and all of a sudden a MAJOR MAN showed up. Woot, woot! Can I get a hell yeah!?! Haha! Be careful what you ask for!!! Holy shit I feel excited and happy!

    I WANT you to be a dork with this man. I DARE you to show him how smart you are. I DARE you to show him your passionate spirit and demonstrate how you can disarm a man carrying a knife. And tell him you feel nervous that he’s a Major. Why not? Let him take care of you and your fear.

    How endearing that you are nervous just because he’s a Major? Maybe he’s just as nervous around you because you are a Siren!?!

    And remember this guy worked you like a summer job (I still love that line!). So I say “Why not?” to your fear!

    Do that Wayne’s World tool and stop yourself from worrying. He will call. Oh yes he will!! Woohoo!!

  140.  #140Simply Shannon on May 4, 2010 at 2:18 pm

    Brenda: I LOVE your vulnerability. I identify with so much of what you’re saying. I just read these words…

    Okay, got it. When you said that, it reminded me of my naivete in high school. During gym class, a girl asked me, “Are you a stoney?” I said, “No, I’m a _MY_L_A_S_T__N_A_M_E_.” She laughed and gossiped with her friends until they were all laffing at me cuz I thot “stoney” was a last name.

    I remember a time on the bus when I overheard a girl (a senior) talking about sex. I said “are you talking about S-E-X?” I spelled it out. I was a clueless freshman (6th grader). She said “do you mean SEX?” and started laughing with her friends. I felt so humiliated. I get the humiliation trigger a lot. I don’t want to look stupid, so I cover up my “not-knowing” with bravado so that no one knows I’m clueless.

  141.  #141mary on May 4, 2010 at 2:44 pm

    Hello Divas,

    I read an article in Texas Monthly about Farrah Fawcett. It was years ago. It said that she was at a sorority function at the beginning of the year, and all the girls lined up on the grass, and the boys stood in line to get dates with the girls. There was a line for Farrah Fawcett two blocks long, and after a few hours of just filling in her calendar for the semester, it was full! Her sorority superiors said, “Ok, no more dates for you!”

    I’ve been thinking about this all these years. It comes to mind very often. And when it does, I usually think “wow, beauty is power! i wish i had it! and.. if you had beauty, why would you try sooooo hard on one person if there were tons of others out there, waiting in line to spend time with you?” and I was envious of Farrah.

    I am Farrah now.

    I don’t even have time for all the dates I could make. My calendar is booked and I’m saying to myself, “No more dates for you!”

    It was rather effortless.

    It’s not about being beautiful after all!

    It’s not about being the best or the smartest!

    It IS about having good pictures

    and a thoughtful, witty profile!

    End of story.

    I still can’t believe it’s me, having this bundle of great opportunity! Okay, yes. I do go out with almost anyone who asks. And you could too! I’m finding out that people are just people, and it’s amazing to get to know some men one on one.

    Oh, speaking of!

    Mr. D at 3…

    gotta run!

    Love, Mary

  142.  #142Jennifer on May 4, 2010 at 3:01 pm

    So, something didn’t make sense to me. C told my money friend that he is a Major…and that he has disarmed roadside bombs.
    Majors don’t do that.
    So I got curious. I couldn’t remember his last name…and neither can she. So I called a girlfriend of mine, who works in base housing.
    They have 7 Majors in base housing right now (where he said he is staying) only three have names that sound Celtic (he claims to be Scottish) of these three two are married and one is not in the age range.
    So now,I think maybe he lied to my friend and I to get laid.
    Wouldn’t be the first time a man had done that.
    How do I feel about that?
    Well, I feel like….I’m saying a big huge mother fuckin NO!!!!! to men who lie to me. I say no to dishonest men so the universe can make room to bring in honest fantastic men.
    If he calls me, I’ll ask him about it…but I don ‘t even feel that attached to the idea that he will call.
    He still worked me like a summer job. Maybe that’s the only lesson here. I CAN be worked like a summer job.
    Still, good times.

  143.  #143Jennifer on May 4, 2010 at 3:03 pm

    Aww geeze this comment is awaiting moderation cause I put my email in wrong. Here it is again..if it repeats, just ignore it.

    So, something didn’t make sense to me. C told my money friend that he is a Major…and that he has disarmed roadside bombs.
    Majors don’t do that.
    So I got curious. I couldn’t remember his last name…and neither can she. So I called a girlfriend of mine, who works in base housing.
    They have 7 Majors in base housing right now (where he said he is staying) only three have names that sound Celtic (he claims to be Scottish) of these three two are married and one is not in the age range.
    So now,I think maybe he lied to my friend and I to get laid.
    Wouldn’t be the first time a man had done that.
    How do I feel about that?
    Well, I feel like….I’m saying a big huge mother fuckin NO!!!!! to men who lie to me. I say no to dishonest men so the universe can make room to bring in honest fantastic men.
    If he calls me, I’ll ask him about it…but I don ‘t even feel that attached to the idea that he will call.
    He still worked me like a summer job. Maybe that’s the only lesson here. I CAN be worked like a summer job.
    Still, good times.

  144.  #144Michelle on May 4, 2010 at 3:08 pm

    This isnt a new man per say more like a long lost one. We grew up with each other. We were first loves and we were first for virginity as well. We found each other on Face Book and started talking, it started out innocent and then grew into an intimate relationship but all on email only because we are both committed to other people. I do not beleave in cheating and neither does he but we found ourselves in this situation. I do love the man I’m committed too but I have always loved this one and I think I always will. Help me. My gut says he feels the same but how do I know forsure?

  145.  #145autumn on May 4, 2010 at 3:39 pm

    Rori, I can’t wait for your pearl of wisdom on my situation. Thanks.

    You are affirming my belief in just focusing on myself and what makes me happy, without worrying at all about him or how he feels about us or what he truly wants and how long, etc….

    I have to tell you one thing that has been bothering me though. He’s been talking to a married woman he used to date some 20 years ago (he claimed that they never had sex) on facebook and she’s quite aggressive and trying to get his attention (repeatedly writing on his wall, calling and leaving a message on his cell). He said she’s not a threat but in fact because she’s not a “threat” she’s perfect for him, you know what I mean. She’s the sort of bored housewife who will be more than happy to have a fling with my hunk hubby (and what can he say really if she throws herself at him?) with no string attached. Isn’t it perfect for him?

    I’ve been telling him that this bothers me a lot and knowing his track record of having a fling with married exes in the past before our marriage (he said they all came to him and he was okay to give they what they wanted/needed) I don’t feel comfortable with him talking to her or any exes.

    Of course he says he has the right to talk to anyone he likes and I can’t tell him otherwise.

    So I have left it at that and haven’t called the last few days and I’m not planing to do so. And because we work out together we will still meet and he will still call (if he doesn’t, I will just leave by myself).

    I don’t want to be ugly about this but at the same time this is not up for negotiation. I told him if he’s still talking to her I don’t want to see him. (They planned to meet last month but she couldn’t make it and I caught her say that on his wall which he deleted right away. He told me there is only friendship between them but I don’t trust him because I have evidence that they’ve been flirting the past year and they had met at least one time last year -though I don’t think they were physical yet back then. And last Friday I noticed on his cell she called him and they talked for an hour).

    Do you think I’m doing the right thing? Should I be adamant about this or just leave him alone on this thing? I begin to feel increasingly uncomfortable with this no-commitment part of our relationship because I feel he wants the cake and eat it. I understand he needs more time to heal but how much longer do I have to wait? Or should I wait? (I actually start talking to guys again and probably date them soon).

  146.  #146diamond on May 4, 2010 at 4:16 pm


    I went back and read what you wrote. You said you strayed. What he’s doing feels like rebellion, to flirt with this woman to get back at you. It feels like trying to make you see how he felt when you did it to him.

    Are you still married to him?

  147.  #147mary on May 4, 2010 at 4:24 pm


    Innocent until proven guilty?


  148.  #148Turtle Girl on May 4, 2010 at 4:28 pm


    I have thought the exact same thing you said!! What is the message? What am I being impotent about? Is there something in my life?

    The thing is, I have been working a lot (my art because I am getting ready for a big show in two months) and I have been doing what I enjoy, my hobbies, my desires, my life, things that make me feel good and fulfilled. I go to the gym, I eat really well. I have really good friends who love me. So-yeah, wtf? I don’t KNOW what the message could be. It is maddening too, because I know that often the whole “Mirroring” thing happens. But with this I got nothin. I can’t imagine what the message could be…………..makes me crazy with this happening though. It is odd, I have at times in my life had men who were just about the sex, and sucked in all other areas. Now it’s men who are great, who suck in the sex department. A reversal.
    Go figure. I don’t know what to do. I am at a total loss. I am so upset over all the cd’ing I have been doing and turning up these kind of men I am just ready to take a huge break and skip men for a while. Just work, and take care of me. Yes alone can be good and it often is, however, I have spent years alone, and I really don’t want that long term.

  149.  #149mary on May 4, 2010 at 4:43 pm


    I don’t think D was for me.

    And how different to be in this situation of saying that! Years ago I would have just made it work. Seriously. Now I think, “Red flag here, red flag there… oops! too many red flags!”


    Oh! this is sooooooo unMarylike.

    I must be learning something.

  150.  #150autumn on May 4, 2010 at 4:46 pm

    He has always been flirtatious like that (either with faraway exes or women online, as long as they are far, he’s okay). Like many men, he’s got a kick out of it.

    I don’t think he wants to show me anything because he would deny or lie about it, unless I could show him the evidence of what I was talking about. He in fact doesn’t want me to know all these things AT ALL because he hates the confrontation.

    I have tolerated his flirtations in the past but I grew resentful and insecure because of that. And the lack of sex worsened it. So now I’m telling him I’m no longer tolerating any of this because it’s unhealthy for either of us.

    I know he’s not seeing anyone or having sex with anyone else but me but I don’t want him to talk to her period, with sex or no sex. Or even just for friendship as it can lead to temptations and knowing his tendency to love flirting online, it’s not a good idea (especially if she’s itchy as well lol).

  151.  #151Lucy on May 4, 2010 at 5:02 pm

    Turtle Girl, can you describe the FEELING that comes up in you about this issue?

  152.  #152Lucy on May 4, 2010 at 5:05 pm

    Mary! This is brilliant! “They must win my affection, and that’s different… and reminiscent of the days of their youth for men who are my age.” !!!!

    I feel so excited and happy about this idea!

    What a wonderful thing to make middle-aged men recall their youth! Haha! Yeah!

  153.  #153mary on May 4, 2010 at 5:08 pm

    Okay, now I’m feeling weird about my Farrah comment. I’m just so surprised there is so much life out there for all of us, and that it can be accessed through the Internet and by putting out a serious effort. Surprised and pleased.

    I see abundance everywhere.

    I feel thankful.

  154.  #154Lucy on May 4, 2010 at 5:14 pm

    Shannon — “I don’t want to marry someone I have to fix, someone who is still so angry at his ex wife, someone who hasn’t surrender his life to God.”

    That sounds just like the guy who asked me to marry him the other night and was heartbroken that I turned him down.

    I felt perplexed that he actually thought I might marry him. All we had been doing for weeks was basically me “counseling” him about his problems and his issues with his ex-wife. Not siren-like, I know, but it was because in my mind I had clearly moved him smack into the friend zone, and was just trying to help him like I would a friend or relative. I had no idea that he was still thinking of me as a potential spouse!

    He was devastated, and I felt shocked and weird.

    I feel good about the clarity you are expressing here around Mr. Fab Kisser. Maybe that’s why the kissing started feeling “off” with him — like you were kissing a relative or friend???

  155.  #155mary on May 4, 2010 at 5:18 pm

    Lucy, I used to be a piano player in hotels and restaurant lounges. And people used to hum their tunes and I’d try to play them.

    I found that all I needed was a little of the rhythm and a little of the tune, and some of the right chords, and their imaginations would fill in the rest! Amazing what the mind will do.

    And I noticed that the older, more nostalgic songs put faraway looks of wistfulness and longing into their eyes.

    I was talking about this to another piano player, and he told me that if I could tap into the feelings people used to have when they were young and in love for the first time, I’d have them forever, and they’d come back over and over to hear me.

    It worked! All I had to do was gauge the age of the patrons and play the songs they were hearing when they were in their late teens, and they were off into their own little worlds… giving me tip after tip!

  156.  #156Turtle Girl on May 4, 2010 at 6:25 pm

    The feeling I get when this issues comes up. Well, I feel frustrated, angry, perplexed. I feel WTF?
    I always felt ok about my body, but this has happened so much I am starting to feel I am unattractive to men.
    And that is wrong, because I am a very slim attractive women. And that makes me feel terrible. I get fearful. I am afraid that I will never find another guy who works normally and also has a good personality that I like and who likes and loves and respects me.

    I guess I thought I had stated how I felt. It feels awful. It feels weird. I feel undesired. I feel scared. I feel cursed. I feel the universe has it out for me somehow. I feel depressed, disappointed, powerless, diminished, lost as to what to do or how to act, unbelieving that this is happening so much,
    alone, empty, and helpless. I want to bust my fist through a wall. I FUCKING HATE this.

    Is that even feeling for you? lol

  157.  #157Turtle Girl on May 4, 2010 at 6:26 pm

    I mean is that enough feeling for you. My typing so sucks cause I type too fast.

  158.  #158Simply Shannon on May 4, 2010 at 6:30 pm

    Umm… [peaks head out from under covers] what just happened?

    I feel really confused and stunned.

    I think Mr. Fab Kisser and I just broke up.

    We were talking, and I was telling him some of things that concern me (as they relate to me). I felt bold. I felt good and we were talking. Going deep. I’m feeling good. It’s not a we solved world hunger conversation but I’m feeling open to what he has to say and loving this man in front of me. It’s like when you step back from a pointillism painting and you can see the whole thing in front of you, not just all the little dots.

    Then we got down to this issue (tithing). We’ve had this conversation before and he wants to argue with me about it (which is what makes me feel uncomfortable – I tithe because it feels good to me. I see the benefits. I see what God is doing in my life.)

    He says “I don’t think I will ever tithe 10% of my income. Is that a deal breaker?”

    I say “yes.”

    He says “Ok then. I guess we should go.”

    What the… ??

    That conversation took a turn that I never quite expected. It is a deal breaker for me that we don’t share the same beliefs. So I guess we’re done.

    I feel hollow, like one of those chocolate Easter bunnies.

    At the same time, I feel brave. Boundary found.

  159.  #159Siena on May 4, 2010 at 6:39 pm

    Wait, what!!?? I feel stunned too Shannon! I know the empty Easter bunny feeling. It’s shock. I’m so sorry! What happens now?

  160.  #160Turtle Girl on May 4, 2010 at 6:45 pm


    I seem to remember a post way back where you has expressed you really did not think that Mr. Fab Kisser was for you. Am I wrong? I am almost sure you said that. Maybe this is just the tipping point of what you already knew way back when.

    Boundaries are good.


    Rejection is God’s protection. Someone here on siren island said that. But I know it still feels weird to have this kind of thing happen. Hollow. I get it, but it is prolly for the best in the long run. Not the guy for you……..xxoo

  161.  #161dorothea on May 4, 2010 at 7:21 pm

    hey sirens, i just wanted to drop in real quick and say that the rori raye way WORKS. it feels awkward and counterintuitive sometimes to follow her advice, but when you can really get into it and actually LISTEN to the advice and practice it 100%, it WORKS. like a freaking charm.

    rori’s advice literally enables women to jedi mind trick men into doing whatever we want without ever having to ask for it.

    do it. unless you’re a true rockstar, do what she advises. lean back 100%. don’t direct him. speak in feeling messages and i don’t wants. get in your heart. respect your feelings first. don’t be scared to show them. don’t be scared to say you feel scared to show your feelings. don’t overfunction.

  162.  #162mary on May 4, 2010 at 7:25 pm

    wow simply shannon.

    you were writing your breakup speech just today!

  163.  #163mary on May 4, 2010 at 7:27 pm

    simply shannon,

    glass of water for you! nice music and warm covers… good night! sleep tight… call it a day!

    mother mary

  164.  #164dorothea on May 4, 2010 at 7:30 pm

    ohh, mary, i feel so proud and wonderful thinking about you being a professional pianist in that setting. i’m like..this girl is COOL, i’m glad she’s here, yeah!

  165.  #165mary on May 4, 2010 at 7:36 pm

    eh! thanks, dorothea!

    i’m happy to be here learning how to do new things and possibly make better choices…

    and live happily ever after.

  166.  #166Lucy on May 4, 2010 at 7:41 pm

    Turtle Girl — The last paragraph (of #154) — can you remember another time when you felt just like that? Those feelings? If you ask God/the universe/yourself, does a memory of feeling those feelings as a little girl surface for you?

    These are the questions I would ask myself. Then, if a memory surfaced, I would see that I need healing around that memory.

    It seems that we manifest situations with the same “emotional signature” as past events that need healing because the child inside us is still trying to find a way to heal it.

    I have found this to be true for me. I would feel happy if this resonates with you and helps you to get free from this issue — if not, then I feel hopeful that a different solution will present itself.

    Hugs to you! And prayers for a wonderful man with awesome sexual prowess to come your way very soon! <3

  167.  #167Lucy on May 4, 2010 at 7:51 pm

    Aw, Shannon, hugs for you.

    I think I saw what Turtle Girl was seeing too — like, there were little things here and there coming out in your recent posts that it seemed like you were on some level getting ready to let him go. (Just my perception, though, so of course it could be totally wrong, or my own stuff, projection, whatnot.)


  168.  #168EternalOptimist on May 4, 2010 at 9:04 pm

    Turtle Girl,

    I’ve been reaading about your frustration with the “guys who can’t get it up” and I feel the need to connect with you. I want you to know that I’ve had several such experiences as well. My last two had the same issue and I believe that’s what caused their ultimate withdrawal. Prior to them, I had experienced it with other guys too. I’m in my mid 40s and all these guys are about my age. I am also attractive but also quite successful. I like regular guys and I’ve experienced this with guys who were less successful and felt intimidated. It has caused me a lot of pain. Usually, I try to stay in the relationship but they end up feeling inadequate (I think) and withdrawing. I’ve read up a lot on the subject and unless it is due to medical reasons (in my case, it wasn’t cuz these are very healthy guys who work out regularly), it could be confined to one partner and they could perform well with another hence their quick withdrawal probably to return to whomever they had success with. I was so frustrated once, I brought up the idea of trying meds (leaning forward?) which worked great but didn’t make the guy stay.

    Something I read in one of the posts on this website struck a chord with me “If you are a strong woman, find a stronger man”. I realize I have less of a problem if I relate to a man who feels very secure and is very successful in his chosen career path. The more they feel they have to offer me, the less likely I am to encounter ED. My antenna is now very alert in detecting insecurity in men. I guess that is a boundary of mine.
    Big question, How many divorced men don’t have insecurity issues?

    I was tempted to feel unattractive sometimes, but I did not really believe it cuz my guy (s) could not keep his hands off me whenever we were together and I knew he was severely turned on. So I know it wasn’t really about my physical appearance. So don’t feel bad about yourself it has nothing to do with you.

    I don’t know what your situation is or what the guys’ social status or emotional state is in relation to yours but that might be something you might want to look in to next time you choose a guy.
    Right now I’m dating a very secure and confident guy. We’re not close to being sexual yet but the vibe is very different this time around that I’m very hopeful.

  169.  #169Daria on May 4, 2010 at 10:04 pm

    Scripting Question:

    So i had 3 nice conversations with a guy. he called. he left messages.

    The conversations are long and fun… he says he will come see me soon, around this weekend.

    I feel a lil worried about having had the long convo’s, even tho i feel good during them I feel like i’m getting connected phone wise, and i want VERY much, im CRAVING in person connection with people.


    The question is..

    He said (and many men have said this) at the end of the convo, well call me sometime, call me if you want to talk to me.

    I haven’t brought up that I don’t call men until now.

    I noticed that when I did bring it up before, men have reacted defensively, or withdrawn, or tried to talk me out of it… etc.

    So the question is,

    How/ what do i say when he says at teh end of the convo, “call me sometime if you want to talk to me?”

    I said okay…

    in the past i would’ve felt bad saying ok, because i didn’t intend to do that.

    so my other thing i would say was… actually i don’t like calling men. which writing it right now doesn’t sound bad. I really like this guy. I don’t want to generate the reaction I have before… I feel worried about that.

    So what do I say when he says that at the end of the convo?

    “call me sometime, if you want to talk to me?”

  170.  #170Siena on May 4, 2010 at 10:19 pm

    Hi Daria,

    I have that same thing happen to me. If he says, “call me sometime” in the same way that he might say “I’ll call you” which in man talk means “goodbye, I’m hanging up and may or may not call you,” I just chuckle and say “okay” and goodbye. And then, of course, don’t call him.

    But if he MEANS he really wants me to call him, or it’s unclear who will call whom, I say something like, “I would feel so much more comfortable if you called me.” That’s my truth – I don’t feel comfortable calling men I’m attracted to.

  171.  #171softy on May 4, 2010 at 10:39 pm

    “call me sometime, if you want to talk to me?”

    I feel uncomfortable in calling men. I just feel weird.I don’t know why.. what do you think? 😉

  172.  #172Daria on May 4, 2010 at 10:56 pm

    oh SIENA

    thats great

    I don’t feel comfortable calling men IM ATTRACTED TO.


    at least even tho he might think that’s weird, that will clarify that I’m attracted to him.


    or… i don’t feel comfortable calling men im dating.

    Softy – thank you… I feel uncomfortable calling men. I can say i feel weird. the thing is, i Do know why… so i don’t want to say that part…

  173.  #173Daria on May 4, 2010 at 11:04 pm

    thanks ladies…

    i still feel shaky. im imagining it producing a WHOA response in him… like “thats just weird” and him saying stuff like… i’m gonna get you to change that (so many men have said this)

    i wish it felt good.

    i feel a little better now… saying i dont feel comfortable calling men im attracted to or men im dating…

    but i still feel afraid of being judged for being RIGID


    i so don’t feel comfortable with this.. ive gotten across the board weird reactions…

    and i dont have a problem NOT calling men, its the communicating that feels bad

    i DONT want to be rigid, even tho it feels kind of exciting and i feel powerful…

    i feel aloof and NOT OPEN

    i want to feel open and comfortable

    i want to open up and say

    hey i really like you… and you know what… i dont really want to be calling you… i dont feel good calling men im dating… what do you think?

    ohh i feel really afraid of being judged. i dont want to seem closed off… and the truth is, i really want to be wanted and pursued… i dont want to put my energy out there and chase a man, or reach out to him, i want him to conquer me and win me… i want a man that is in charge, so i can relax and be a lady…

    what do you think?

    thats pretty good… long tho… hmmm

    i feel afraid of telling you this. i dont want to be thought of as weird. i dont want to be judged as closed off. and… i dont like calling men. i feel so much better when a man calls me and does 100% of the pursuing in a relationship. i dont want a man that’s not in charge. (i think men love the idea of being “in charge”) what do you think?

  174.  #174mary on May 4, 2010 at 11:07 pm

    how about this?

    “i would prefer not to, but i’d really love it if you called me.”

  175.  #175softy on May 4, 2010 at 11:09 pm

    daria 😀

    I feel weird because there’s always lots of mixed feelings will come out when i called a man who’s am attracted to

  176.  #176Daria on May 4, 2010 at 11:19 pm

    mary – thanks! that might really work once i get my feelings clear on this

    that might be a great short message

    i feel like my “vibe” is overloaded around it, so it comes thru in my tone, rather than just clearly and simply and non triggerd

  177.  #177Daria on May 4, 2010 at 11:20 pm

    i like how you said i’d REALLY love it

    that sounds honest, not like im pushing him away

    i’d prefer not to, but id really love it if you called me

  178.  #178Lucy on May 4, 2010 at 11:33 pm

    Daria, would it change the feeling for you if you added the word “initiate”?

    “I don’t feel comfortable initiating phone calls with men. I feel great when the man takes charge of all the calling.”

    or with Mary’s… “I don’t feel comfortable initiating phone calls with men, but I’d really love it if you called me.”

    If he is saying, “call me sometime if you want to talk to me” you might even want to say “Thanks” first, because he is offering you a listening ear.

    “Thanks! It feels good to hear that you want to talk with me again! I don’t feel comfortable initiating phone calls with men, but I’d really love it if YOU called ME.”

  179.  #179Lucy on May 4, 2010 at 11:40 pm

    Then, if he says, “Aw, you can call me!”

    Then you could say, “It feels GREAT to me when the man takes charge of the calling.” (said in a really inviting, alluring voice, so that he wants to be that man who makes you feel GREAT by taking charge!)

  180.  #180Daria on May 4, 2010 at 11:41 pm


    i literrally went OH with my mouth open! ui really like

    I dont feel comfortable initiating phone calls with men. I feel great when the man takes charge of all the calling.


    that is GREAT!!!!!!

    I dont feel comfortable initiating phone calls with men. I feel great when the man takes charge of all the calling.

    yesss!!! the initiating makes me sound mature and not weird lol

    and the takes charge totally inspires him to yes!!!

    and all the calling basically covers … ALL THE CALLING


    omg this si great

    I dont feel comfortable initiating phone calls with men. I feel great when the man takes charge of all the calling.


    this sounds SEXY AND MATURE




  181.  #181gina on May 4, 2010 at 11:44 pm

    Any suggestions on how to deal with inappropriate attraction? I still feel intense chemistry with a man I work with, who lied to me about his status with his wife, so that he could make out with me. I do not want this man, but the attraction is still there. I was punishing with anger, but I don’t want to be that angry ugly person, so tonight I told him that all this weirdness and anger doesn’t feel good, and I don’t want to have it with somebody that I work with, so I let him know that I’m over it – I’m not mad (I’m really not). And that felt very good – like I’m taking care of myself, and accepting him as a person, but rejecting his behavior, and sticking to boundaries.
    However, reading this post, I imagine his wife being the woman who is getting the cold shoulder, and I feel guilty being attractive around him. Like it would be more helpful to her if I keep giving him the cold shoulder. But regardless of what I do, he will flirt with somebody – he goes from one girl’s attention to the next. Tonight, in an indirect way, he let me know that it is very rare for him to find a woman who finds truly beautiful, and that he feels that way about me. He backs up those particular words with actions like cleaning up my tables for me, carrying things for me, etc – which he doesn’t do with other women I see him flirt with. Not that it matters…It’s just weird – I don’t quite know what to do with a man who is hooked on women, especially since he is married and has lied to me, yet seems to have some special connection with me…I’m sticking to boundaries…UNIVERSE…WHY??? what are you telling me? that I ache for forbidden unavailable love? even though I’d like to think I’m too smart for that?? and what about that guy last night, Universe?? He seems so great – pursuing me beautifully, but then he starts talking about “Mom” and reveals that his mother is a Lesbian. Not that there’s anything wrong with that…but just the way he was talking was such a turnoff. Sheesh. Are you showing me how I reject the reality of a real available and interested man, who may have issues, but who is willing to expose them to me in an honest way, who is available, perhaps imperfect, but at least is available and interested in a relationship?? Fine…I get the message. But I also get the message that I’m uncomfortable with some feelings…I am uncomfortable feeling attracted to this man who I don’t THINK i “should” be attracted to, and I am uncomfortable feeling turned off by this Man who I think I “should” be attracted to. interesting…

  182.  #182Daria on May 4, 2010 at 11:45 pm


    i literrally went OH with my mouth open! ui really like

    I dont feel comfortable initiating phone calls with men. I feel great when the man takes charge of all the calling.

    WOW (I wrote ISUS in English but it’s being moderated – i checked)

    that is GREAT!!!!!!

    I dont feel comfortable initiating phone calls with men. I feel great when the man takes charge of all the calling.

    yesss!!! the initiating makes me sound mature and not weird lol

    and the takes charge totally inspires him to yes!!!

    and all the calling basically covers … ALL THE CALLING


    omg this si great

    I dont feel comfortable initiating phone calls with men. I feel great when the man takes charge of all the calling.


    this sounds SEXY AND MATURE




  183.  #183Daria on May 4, 2010 at 11:50 pm

    practicing my sexy voice:

    it feels GRReat (rolling eyes back with pleasure) when a man (yum feling) takes charge of the calling.

  184.  #184Daria on May 4, 2010 at 11:52 pm

    this one man just imed me wassup”

    and i wrote

    i feel good

    happy i have this blog to write on
    with a lot of supportive women

    =) hehe

    my status said… cryin and cryin these days… my heart breaks open

    hes probably like huh? lol

    emotion coaster

  185.  #185Daria on May 4, 2010 at 11:56 pm

    Gina !

    I think you’re doing GREAT by feeling it!! and doing nothing!

    i think this is a BIG babystep. to realize you can feel it but you dont have to ACT on it

    (Ready*to*CircularDate Goddess said this great the other day ont eh New Questions thread)

  186.  #186gina on May 5, 2010 at 12:24 am

    Daria, you are so super insightful…you’re right, I’m just sitting around (literally, cause at work we weren’t busy) feeling it, not doing anything. I did feel curious about whether he was feeling it, too. I dunno, but he was standing across the room drawing a flower. My heart buzzes just thinking about it. this feels weirdly good and scary, cause if I ever do end up married to a man, I don’t want his heart chakra hooking up with some other chick, even if she isn’t doing anything…

  187.  #187Daria on May 5, 2010 at 2:00 am

    sometimes i cant stand myself! i cant stand how she gets in other poeoples business.

    god taht girl is such a know ita ll

    ugh i wish she’d leave us alone

    shes so fucked up as it it… and she really thinks shes got it all together

    i felt triggered by soemthing like that earlier

    i feel mad

    i feel defensive

    i love you voices

    you deserve to be heard

    and i dont want to be attacked thank u
    for brining this to my attention

    i accept your gifts

    and i free you now

    to help me in a different way

    by speaking to me gently powerfully and inspiringly

    thank u so much for your efforts in the past and the future onese in advance!

    irght on high five!

  188.  #188Ankita on May 5, 2010 at 2:52 am


    Holy shit… I don’t know why I go so self-conscious and nervous in front of people I am attracted to…

    Just today Mr. V did call me from abroad…
    We were discussing my entrance exams…
    I told him that we had a major problem due to error in IIT paper. He said, “It would have been the same for everyone.”
    I,” Oh ya.. When did I say it’s only for me. (Laugh).. I thought you didn’t knew.. That’s why did tell you.”

    Then again from a long time I had this thing in my mind that is he really after MY FRIENDSHIP or is being friendly with me just because of the line I wanna go into? Is he genuine? (He is himself a very successful marine engineer.)

    So I tossed the topic that my family doesn’t wishes me to be in this line, and that my exam went average, just to see his reaction. If I don’t do well here, may choose another line. He was just like, neutral.

    I am practicing all the tools right. Talking all steps more or less right. And I can feel confident now. But in front of this guy, I am zipped. Think twice before saying him anything.

    At times I feel he’s aggressive, self- centered, haughty, proud, honest. But at the same time, I feel interested in him and wanna see him even more.

    What do you all think????

  189.  #189Jeannette on May 5, 2010 at 4:24 am

    Guys, I did not respond to my ex long distance’s last e-mail. We had a phone conversation and it didn’t go very well. I told him that even though he said it was the distance that broke us up, I said, “Well don’t you think though that if I even lived near you that the bottom line was I was getting too serious and you just wern’t ready?” He said it’s probably true, because his ex wife burned him and that was just about 2 years ago. He had two ex’s who cheated he said. I said well at least I never did that! And he said I know that, and I do think so much about that. But I would say it’s pretty useless, so when he sent me a email in response to another email I sent him, asking me how I am doing and such and how my sick daughter is, I just didn’t respond. He just does not want this relationship and I have to accept it. But I miss him but he is already looking on dating sites. So there you go, another broken hearted story. What good would it do to respond to the email? It could drag on until one day, he’s hooked up with another woman than I would be very hurt again. They say sometimes its good to be friends, but it’s just too hard.

  190.  #190dawn on May 5, 2010 at 4:39 am

    Jeannette Sorry to hear you are hurting. Now you have more time and room in your heart for a man that really deserves you. Go get em !!

  191.  #191Jeannette on May 5, 2010 at 4:48 am

    Not that easy Dawn, I am a woman who takes ea of my relationships very seriously, it’s going to have to be one day at a time. But thanks….

  192.  #192Jennifer on May 5, 2010 at 5:10 am

    hey Mary…
    Totally innocent until proven guilty. I’m just putting it out to the universe what I say NO!!!!!!!!! To. This is (or could be) a big assed NO!
    Part of the reason I left B was dishonesty.
    Wierd thing happened.
    My sister couldn’t come to Judo last night. So I went by myself.
    The instructor, H. Spent all night with just me. The other instructor took the other two people in class.
    He showed me some “bonus grip breaks” and we did throws all night.
    Somehow we ended up talking about meditation…something I traditionally suck at.
    He also mentioned that he owns THREE companies…the judo company, a programming company, and a natural health company.
    So last night I dreamt I made out with him, Creepy.

  193.  #193dawn on May 5, 2010 at 5:33 am

    Jeannette, We all take these relationships seriously. Thats part of the problem.
    You dont know me
    you just judged me
    I feel your hurt and wanted to let you know
    but you judged me
    I feel hurt
    pain is pain
    it hurts all the same

  194.  #194Brenda on May 5, 2010 at 7:02 am

    Simply Shannon,

    I am sad for you about Mr. Fab Kisser. Let me see how you feel about some of my thoughts on this.

    I, too, am more concerned than usual that a man have the same beliefs as me. However, I think it is just about impossible that ALL his beliefs would be IDENTICAL. I have found that sometimes people change over time, and also that some beliefs are not as vital as others.

    What if you just let that issue of tithing rest and just give it time? If he didn’t believe Jesus was God and didn’t believe Jesus rose from the dead, that would be a more serious issue, right?

    I am thinking of Kenny, my exhusband, when I write this. He backslid and recommitted his life to God several times throughout the 10 years I’ve known him. At one point, I said relating to him was like trying to find praise & worship music on a radio station for hard rock.

    Yet here we are 10 years later, and, altho he isn’t perfect, he has had deep soul and spirit change over time. He gets up every morning at 5:30 am to pray, and I mean really pray. He reads his Bible and listens to Christian TV stations. He is still in process, just like all of us, but I am like WOW! I had given up more than once that he would ever be the man of God I had wanted him to be!

    If you still feel tithe is that important, so be it, and of course it’s your decision. I just encourage you to ask yourself where this man’s heart is with God…is he devoted to submission to God? Is he intent on knowing and understanding the Bible? More importantly, is he devoted to DOING what the Bible says? If so, maybe the Spirit of God will transform him in that belief area over time. How do you feel about that?

  195.  #195Jennifer on May 5, 2010 at 8:00 am

    Creepy cause I don’t want to be the steriotypical girl who develops a crush on her instructor (judo, tennis, pianot whatever). It feels like a cliche to me.
    Although he is cute…. and I feel safe around him. I let him throw me on the floor for cryin out loud. Normally I don’t let people even push me without getting all agitated.
    And I don’t feel nervous that he would ever be agressive with me. Lots of times “manly” men make me nervous, I worry that they would turn on me and be agressive with me. But H designes self defence classses FOR women , so it makes sense that he would not be agressive WITH women.
    At least in my little mind.

  196.  #196Jeannette on May 5, 2010 at 8:03 am

    Dawn, you are so right, thank you for that. It’s sort of like when someone says, “Oh you can always have another baby,” when your child just died. When a relationship ends it’s like a death. I just am the type who can’t run right out and explore what’s out there when I am still hurting after my breakup, that’s all I am saying.

  197.  #197Simply Shannon on May 5, 2010 at 8:23 am

    Jennifer: I’m still catching up in bits and pieces. What are the reasons you believe Major Man lied? I thought you said you didn’t know he was a Major; that he never said that to you. I feel confused and surprised at this sudden turn of events. He went from being a guy you didn’t care two cents about, who you had great sex with, to being this MAJOR and now you feel completely scared and are pushing him away, away, away and saying it’s because of lies. Have you talked to him?

    Okay, I feel bad. That is complete boy voice. I feel angry, like whoa, what the frig just happened? I love your triggers (and mine). I feel completely confident in our ability to work through them. I also want to shout at the top of my lungs and point out what I see. 🙂

  198.  #198tinque on May 5, 2010 at 8:34 am

    Turtle Girl – Maybe too much though and effort are going into this. You said yourself that CDing is getting to you, making you feel bad. How about CDing yourself for now? How about keeping your focus on your show (how exciting) and all the things you are already doing? How about relaxing around the entire thought about men, and just be you, be into you, be all about you for now?

  199.  #199Brenda on May 5, 2010 at 9:08 am

    Oh, Tinque, I love it! That is quotable! And it makes me so happy that I JUST did JUST that, right at work!!

    I just had coffee with Bill again! He invited me, and we went with his friend, Mark. We spent an entire hour, since we were in such a deep conversation together! And it felt GOOD to have his friend along. I don’t feel pushed away by that at all. I’ve learned from experience that it’s VERY important WHO a man’s friends are and HOW he relates to them.

    We talked about beliefs, and if my awaiting-moderation comment for Shannon ever gets posted, you’ll see that beliefs are centrally important to me. I felt really happy to know Bill’s spiritual stand in general! I’ve been excited to know that!

    We got in a terrific conversation about all sorts of other countries, because Bill was telling us about the two week cruise he’s going on in the beginning of June to Athens, Istanbul, Jerusalem, and thereabouts! It made for a lot of good feeling messages.

    And I’ve been practicing and thinking about leaning back and feeling messages so much on this site that it came far more organically and second nature than ever before! I felt so confident with my new skills, and I kept reminding myself to lean back. Several times I let the compassion flow on subjects we were covering, and I saw a lot of admiration and warmth in Bill’s gorgeous blue eyes! 🙂 I really like him! I feel soooo happy right now! This is the most confident I’ve EVER felt with a man to whom I’m attracted!! Thank you Rori!!! Thank you, Sirens!!!

  200.  #200Brenda on May 5, 2010 at 9:16 am

    Y’know what leaning back skill I’ve been focusing on most? Simply LISTENING. I realize in my nervousness I tend to chatter, and that translates to overfunctioning. I kept far more quiet than usual, tuning in to the perceptions, thoughts, and feelings of the two men I was with. I asked questions, and then again, fell silent, in order to listen to them. Listening is such a wonderful skill, no matter what the relationship. I want to make it a study to become the best listener in the world!

  201.  #201Brenda on May 5, 2010 at 9:21 am

    I also would like to make a general statement about beliefs and spirituality. I know it can get sticky, because we all represent various belief systems here. My spirit is the central part of my being, even more central than my emotions. So I find it virtually impossible to discuss dating without discussing my beliefs. Like Shannon said, it’s a deal breaker. But I operate so much out of my beliefs, too.

    So when I talk about beliefs and spiritual things, I never intend to offend anyone, but at the same time, I just am expressing ME.

    I don’t expect everyone to agree with what I say, and I don’t agree with everything each of you say. Yet I still feel you are all sisters, and I care about each diva here. I separate what someone does and says from who they are. I mean, you could tell me you’re an atheist, and I would still want the best for you.

    How do you all feel about that? Are there established rules on this blog about discussing beliefs?

  202.  #202Turtle Girl on May 5, 2010 at 9:29 am


    It is weird how you and I parallel lately. Taking a break is exactly what I said I feel like doing.
    I am just working my art and hanging with girlfriends and taking care of myself. Men are on hold right now.

    And that’s feeling good to me right now. I have a few straggler emails from men from an ad I posted and I feel no compunction at all to write back and meet these men.

    Thank you for your input as always. Your voice is always appreciated here.

    Eternal Optimitst-

    I appreciate your thoughts on your experiences with men. That really got me thinking. And I hate to think it might be true but these men that are impotent have been (I think) more insecure-and a lot more insecure than I am. They are laid off from work, so that is a biggie for most men. One had a very long marriage and his wife got sick and died, and had issues around his dead wife. He was very hesitate to even date other women. The ghosts of dead wife past…….

    When I think about the men in my past who were very virile, they all had college degrees, really good jobs and felt successful about their life. So I wonder if there is something to this. And until you mentioned it, I hadn’t thought of this angle. So thank you for your input. I appreciate it.

    Having said that, I am dropping this for now, taking a break and not worrying about men who can’t fuck.
    When I feel better about cd’ing and men I will pick this back up again.

    Hugs to all your beautiful ladies.xxxooo

  203.  #203Jennifer on May 5, 2010 at 9:58 am

    Hey SS…dont feel bad. I like people pointing things out.
    Heres the time line.
    We ( money friend and I ) meet C….good times ensue.
    He asks for my number…I give it to him assuming he’s being polite (who calls a one night stand after all?)
    I chat with her on Monday…realize she is convinced that he will call me. Also realize I don’t remember his last name..I ask her thinking she knew him. Not so.
    She doesn’t know him either. He told her he was Major….he told me he diffused roadside bombs..which is not something an officer would normally do. I feel curious about that..and subsequently him. The situation feels “off” so I called a friend in the housing office. He says he’s staying in base housing. There are 7 Majors in base housing at this time. Three with Celtic last names ( he says hes scottish) two of the three are married and one is out of the age range…ergo…something is not adding up.
    I TOTALLY admit this is my trigger area. B lied to me all the time..maybe I’m just looking for a reason to blow him off if he calls? Who knows…..
    I dont’ know if he will call or if he won’t. The point is that I’m telling the universe I say no to liars. No and No and No.

  204.  #204Siena on May 5, 2010 at 10:06 am

    I had an interesting night last night.

    Watched Harry Connick Jr. on American Idol (did anyone see that?). I used to listen to Harry all the time in my young 20s, and dream about my love life. Then I put him away once I got my heart broken a couple of times.

    Well, last night, watching him, I started to cry and cry. Why did I shut down those dreams? Because I didn’t know how to deal with the emotions that surrounded them. So I let it all out last night, crying for the girl who shut down her dreams and pursued career instead.

    But then I felt better. I dealt with it, used the tools, and it felt good! Next I went browsing through my journal from the past year.

    My journal showed a woman who was nervous, anxious, leaning forward, controlling – SOOO not at peace with her love life.

    I felt sad for that woman who didn’t know how to center herself in relationships. I’m still learning, but this Siren space is so much more peaceful.

    I understand it! I finally understand. And now I feel it in my body too. It feels wonderful, Raggedy Ann doll, relaxed, deep breath.

    I’m going shopping for a new journal today. That old one I’ll keep as a memory of where I’ve come from, but I don’t want to write in it anymore.

    And I also had a ‘a-ha!’. No wonder I attracted and then was left by The Man. It really makes sense. The way I was “doing” relationships, I had zero chance of making them work long-term!

    I feel so grateful for all you Sirens and Rori especially. Yay!

    Oh – and Sexy Man just friended me on FB. He’s checking up on me, because I haven’t been chasing him… heehee, feels good! I have nothing to hide!

  205.  #205iwonder on May 5, 2010 at 10:19 am

    what if all he wants is sex??? what does this mean? that ur desired or used? help

  206.  #206Brenda on May 5, 2010 at 10:20 am

    Siena, that’s beautiful! I am so happy for you! I see you as a role model for practicing siren tools!

  207.  #207Daria on May 5, 2010 at 10:27 am

    Dawn – I feel really good to read this:

    You dont know me
    you just judged me
    I feel your hurt and wanted to let you know
    but you judged me
    I feel hurt
    pain is pain
    it hurts all the same

    yes!!! this is how i felt the other day to my friend, even though she was talking about herself, I felt judged and I felt she was separating herself from me

    I feel shocked and shaky to see you feeling this way.

    Janette – it feels bad to hear that “youre not the type” does that mean that we are the type? that feels bad and separating.

    I feel really angry.

    I still don’t feel heard about my friend on that issue that originally triggered me, and i feel frustrated trying to clarify what felt bad.

    this is very helpful

  208.  #208Daria on May 5, 2010 at 10:29 am

    I feel shaky!!!

  209.  #209Daria on May 5, 2010 at 10:30 am

    I feel so angry and unheard and frustrated.

  210.  #210Simply Shannon on May 5, 2010 at 10:33 am

    Jennifer: Gosh girl. I see so much of me in your words. It feels spooky to watch. GREAT sex and two seconds later, I’ve made it all crap thinking about him and what it means. Maybe it was just good sex with no strings attached. Maybe someone misunderstood. Maybe he’s Scottish on his mother’s side and has an English sounding last name.

    Thinking, thinking, thinking.

    Wayne’s World, excellent…

    Phew. Okay. How do I feel right now? I feel annoyed. I want to be worked like a summer job and feel freakin’ good about it FOREVER!

  211.  #211Brenda on May 5, 2010 at 10:43 am

    Daria, to whom are you referring when you say you feel unheard? I tend to feel easily paranoid. 🙂 (*sheepish grin*)

  212.  #212Daria on May 5, 2010 at 10:46 am

    Brenda – i think i was referring to my friend. or the world.

  213.  #213Brenda on May 5, 2010 at 10:58 am

    Well I hear you. And you know this, but you can vent here. I really appreciate your expression of feelings. I often feel the same way.

  214.  #214Siena on May 5, 2010 at 11:05 am

    I feel good that Sexy Man is checking up on me. He didn’t ask me out for last weekend, so I thought maybe he wasn’t interested. And I also feel good that he’s not married. He told me he was divorced, but then when he didn’t call for a weekend date, I thought he might be married.

    I like being a Siren. This feels good!

  215.  #215Siena on May 5, 2010 at 11:18 am

    Just found out that two of my college girlfriends were talking about me this morning, and are going to try to set me up with one of their brothers-in-law.

    That feels good. I feel taken care of. And when they talk about me, I know it’s not gossip. They genuinely love me and want me to find my Happily Ever After also. I feel grateful. Thank you!

    Keep it coming, I desire choices! Thank you!

  216.  #216Rachel on May 5, 2010 at 11:56 am

    Well I’m on my way!!! Currently on layover at JFK enroute to a long weekend in the town where my guy is stationed. We have plans to see each other several times. HE initiated the plans! YAY!

    I am determined not to make this trip about him. It is MY adventure. I want to stay on my horse! I have books, journals, CD’s … a whole tool kit to try and keep myself focused on my own beautiful journey.

    I don’t know how I will feel seeing him again. it’s been almost a year and a LOT has happened. We have been very close recently through the limited communication we can have when he’s at sea. He has been stepping up.

    I just find it hard not to have expectation! Like just now… I logged in and thought surely he would have jotted me a “happy travels- excited to see you” note. But there was none.

    And then my mind goes to flowers? chocolate? AUGH

    So… I’ll be checking in throughout the weekend to gather wisdom and strength from all of you inspiring sirens.

    Excited! Nervous! Happy!

  217.  #217Daria on May 5, 2010 at 12:25 pm

    Wow Rachel!! Happy adventuring!

  218.  #218Vicki Kerns on May 5, 2010 at 1:01 pm

    Boy, does the “no sex” issue ring a bell. The dork I’ve been in love with for so long did that. After what I thought was “dating” for 2 months (going out to dinners, antiquing, watching movies, laughing until we cried, etc.), one evening we ended up in bed. I hadn’t been with a man in 11 years and it was the most incredible night. I’d never been with anyone so attentive to my needs. Well, he did a 180 the next day (yeah, knife in the heart there), but we talked about it, agreed to take a step back, but a couple of months later, did the old “friends with benefits” thing (yes, I know, another mistake). It was a doubly difficult thing for me because not only did I love him, but for the first time in my adult life, I felt desire, lust & downright horniness; didn’t know how to handle all that. Anyway, we had sex about once a month (I guess more than that might have constituted a relationship, who knows…yes, another mistake, I know).

    Anyway, on Memorial Day of last year, he was coming over for a cookout later in the day, but he called me that morning, asked me some “provocative” questions, which melted me into my damn shoes, came over that morning, and we had the most mind-blowing sex I’ve ever had. But here’s the kicker: at one point when I thought he was going to have to peel me off the ceiling, he asked me, “Hasn’t any man ever done this for you before?” I answered, “No, not like you have. Thank you.” He seemed to get a general anger on (at other men’s carelessness) and said, “Men are so selfish. They should always make sure that a woman’s taken care of. Don’t ever let another man…”, and he stopped and didn’t finish the sentence. That triggered something in me, but I didn’t question him (my old unempowered self, that is). And that was the last time we had sex.

    And, of course, I didn’t question anything, I just stuffed my feelings down (again, the old me), and we had a blow up back in October. I’m not sure what he was intending to say; several scenarios ran through my head, from “don’t ever let another man use you” and he realized that’s what he was doing, to I’m getting in too deep here. Who knows? Anyway, we’ve never talked about it.

    He has started coming around again, calling me, coming by to see me, even took me out to dinner last week. I’ve stopped giving, even told him no when he asked for a favor awhile back. Said I didn’t feel comfortable doing that big of a favor at this point in time. I’m listening to my CDs and just ordered the Commitment Blueprint. I’m working on me, focusing on me. It’s not easy breaking a lifetime of habits, but I’d damned determined to succeed. It’s still hard because I still love this man so much. I don’t know why God keeps putting this man in my path, but if he wants any kind of relationship with me (big if, I know), and that includes friendship, then he’s going to have to come and get it.

    I’m trying to circular date. I have an ad on Match.com, I’m losing weight and working on my self-esteem. Dates/men have never come easy for me. I get asked out maybe once every few years, so this isn’t a familiar area for me. But I’m a siren in training and thank you to Rori and all you sirens for being out here and so supportive.

  219.  #219Jennifer on May 5, 2010 at 4:22 pm

    Hey SS…I feel the same way. Like…WTF am I doing!?!?!?!??!
    Ya know what? I’m tired of my own stupid drama. This is dumb. Either he calls or he don’t…what EVER!!!!
    Frig…hate being a fruit loop.
    My money friend tells me that he said “WE disarm roadside bombs..I have 9 men under me.”
    I thought he said…”I disarm road side bombs.”
    Like any of this even matters…SHUT up! Stoopid brain.
    How did I feel when I was with him? FEEL!?!?!??!
    Um….worked like a summer job? (sorry SS)
    Like I could feel the strength in him. Like I could lean. Like if I said “more” or “stop” it would be done.
    This is perhaps the lesson?
    I like feeling this way. This is what I’m focusing on. That feeling. Not the stupid brain crap that I threw up to have an excuse to RUN FOR THE HILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!
    He may call…he may not. Either way I’m ok….I would like to feel that way again…but there is a river of men.
    Little help here.

  220.  #220Tirtle Girl on May 5, 2010 at 4:49 pm

    Your post about the major reminds me of that post Rori did a while back about “great men”. I am getting the vibe that you are a bit “in awe” of the guy cause of his position. Oooohhh-he’s a MAJOR– He is great to you. The lying part may be a deal breaker, but that is not what this part is about.
    It’s the perception of who you think you are and who he is—-And since you considered yourself dorky-then to you he has more power than you do.

    What I am picking up from this is that you are drawing a guy to you who has the “greatness” so that you can learn that your opinion of yourself, dorkiness and all is just as powerful and just as valid.
    I could be wrong, of course, but that is the vibe I am getting. And I might add, that you are just as good, regardless of his title and you are a goddess and deserve the best man, title or no.

  221.  #221Simply Shannon on May 5, 2010 at 5:57 pm

    Jennifer: I feel good reading your words. I feel the surrender. It’s good. Yeah. I want that. Surrender to the good feelings and stop ruining it with all of the thinking brain crap.

    P.S. You are NOT stupid. That is a bad word in my house. My boys would admonish you and say “WE DON’T SAY THAT WORD”. And they are so right. Since they are boys, they are allowed their boy voice here. 🙂

  222.  #222Simply Shannon on May 6, 2010 at 10:19 am

    Brenda: Just saw your other message. What you wrote is exactly the issue. It’s not about tithing specifically. it’s this overall feeling I get that he doesn’t have a relationship with God. He says he does but it doesn’t show at all. I don’t feel it when I’m around him. I feel distracted from my path with God and that to me feels VERY upsetting. On the flip side, he goes to church with me every Sunday. I know he’s on a path. I just don’t want to be held back or distracted in my path while he figures out his. It’s the resistance I feel. And I keep getting the message that God wants me to move out of the way.

    I don’t know. Things on Tuesday ended so weird and so suddenly. I felt betrayed. I still feel betrayed.

    I don’t know what I want. I feel confused. We’ll see. Trying to stay in the moment and not look to the future. Trusting God each moment. It feel sooo hard not to look 5-10 steps ahead!

  223.  #223Brenda on May 6, 2010 at 10:46 am

    Simply Shannon,

    All right, yes, then you are right on. Sorry to hear that. I read the biography of Kathryn Kuhlman once…have you heard of her? She was a minister a few decades ago. She married, and it wasn’t in God’s will, and eventually she moved away. If anything or anyone is holding you back in your relationship with God, then that’s not good.

    That’s not to say he could change over time, but that MUST stand the test of time, consistency, not just words…actions that stay consistent.

    It is part of the reason I divorced Kenny in 2006. He was in prison and we were married in name only. So in some ways I don’t believe in my heart that we were ever truly married in God’s eyes. And he was most definitely holding me back from my relationship with God.

    And that all comes back to being on OUR own bridge, following OUR own path. If we have chosen a relationship with God, then that is our priority that is higher than a man.

    It’s sad tho, and I’m sad for you that you feel betrayed. Maybe he’ll see the light, now that you are helping him to feel the heat!!

  224.  #224Lucy on May 6, 2010 at 1:30 pm

    Shannon — Your response to Brenda resonated strongly with me. I ended up marrying a man who was like what you described in the first paragraph. He was a youth leader when I met him, and singing solos in churches all over the county, but I later (after we were married) found out that those activities meant absolutely nothing in relation to his faith and relationship with God, which were virtually non-existent.

    In our marriage, then, I was the one who was always trying to “lead the way” spiritually. He claimed to be open to God, and always went to church, but there was never a genuine vibe around it and he never took any serious initiative spiritually for himself or us as a couple or with the children when they arrived. I know now that it just was never really important to him — and he was, in fact, hiding a secret life that was far removed from the values and faith he professed.

    Now, when I meet a man, one of my absolute boundaries is that I will NOT feel any need to nudge or prod or lead him spiritually — because he will be taking care of it himself. I want to be able to RESPECT a man’s relationship with God and his spiritual journey (meaning, he has to consciously BE ON a journey and take full responsibility for it).

    So…maybe since you already had some concerns in these areas, maybe God was protecting you from getting more attached to someone who really was not good for you?

    What do you think?


  225.  #225Brenda on May 6, 2010 at 1:40 pm

    Hi Lucy, I’m with you! I admit, I was very attracted to a pastor at one point. He is the most Christ-like man I ever knew: full of compassion, other-centered, wise, tender with children, you name it. He was just about everything I ever wanted in a man. Except for one thing: he was married. 🙁

    I can’t change that, but I am thankful to have known him, and I hold him out as the type I want to meet. I would ideally like a man who is a spiritual leader to ME, not the other way around. **Sigh!**

  226.  #226Simply Shannon on May 6, 2010 at 1:46 pm

    Lucy: Yes, this is spot-on how I feel. I don’t want to help him with this. I don’t want to guide him. If anything, I want him to be guiding me or at a minimum not be worried about his relationship with God. I don’t want to wonder, ya know?

    This helping thing I do in my relationships is driving me nuts. I feel annoyed with myself. I do not want to help. No that’s not it. I do not want to feel validated and powerful by my “help”. And I see myself doing it here with other Sirens. Blech. I am not here to save the planet. I trust you all can figure this shit on your own. And why do I think I’m so powerful that I can fix everything. That’s freakin’ funny Shannon. I hereby hand down the magic wand.

    Somebody posted a Florence Nightgale blog post and ouch that one STUNG.

    Phew. There are so many layers. I feel so tired of trying to figure this stuff out. Thinking, thinking, thinking. Be careful to use feeling messages. Don’t blame him. Blah, blah, blah. I don’t even want to think about men anymore!

    I feel overwhelmed.

    And bored.

    I think I’ll run away and distract myself.

  227.  #227Rori Raye on May 6, 2010 at 1:47 pm

    iwonder – so – how do you know all he wants is sex? If he says so – get yourself away from him – but still – it’s nice to be desired, and as long as he’s being honest, there’s no “using” going on. If you’re not sure – that’s something great to talk about. Love, Rori

  228.  #228Brenda on May 6, 2010 at 1:59 pm


    I saw a cute mug once that said, “Resign yourself as general manager of the Universe!” I have to step back, too!

    The Florence Nightingale link stung me, too. **Ufff! Ugh!* Can’t seem to let go longer than a minute or two at a time! So I’ll refocus, once again, on fixing ME. ME’s a full time job, cuz I’m a piece of work! LOL!

  229.  #229Lucy on May 6, 2010 at 2:12 pm

    Yeah, I felt interested in that Florence Nightengale article too. But for me, something strange happens when I start to help/fix/heal a man —

    I become LESS attracted to him, less emotionally invested, and basically delegate him to the friends category. It happens automatically, without even thinking about it —

    And HE becomes MORE attracted to me, more emotionally invested, and wants to MARRY me!!!

    And then he is SHOCKED, devastated and heartbroken when he finds out I am not interested in him that way —

    And I am shocked that he is shocked because I have been feeling and expressing NO romantic feelings at all toward him — just helping him with all his problems. I feel dumbfounded that he saw our relationship as heading toward marriage! I saw it more like I’m doing volunteer work! Whew.

    This has happened to me several times in my life. Once in college, a few times in circular dating.


  230.  #230Simply Shannon on May 6, 2010 at 2:19 pm

    Lucy: DITTO. That is exactly where things stand with me and Mr. Fab Kisser. In the past though, I’ve gotten emotionally involved with those I’ve helped but I think I was addicted to the power of it. I felt so bad inside that helping them made ME feel better. It had nothing to do with helping the other person. It reminds me of that Meg Ryan movie where she’s an alcoholic and she says to her husband something like “you enabled my drinking so you could help me and that made you feel good”. Yeah. I can relate to that so much.

  231.  #231Brenda on May 7, 2010 at 9:37 am

    Shannon and Lucy, I will say this since I know you are both Christians…I believe only the Spirit of God working in us and thru us can make us relate to others in a way that is completely selfless. I hope you don’t beat yourselves up. We mean well, but we are simply inherently flawed, as human beings.

    By nature, we relate from US to OTHERS. When the Spirit takes over, with us giving Him our will, we are like a glove, and He is like the hand inside, empowering the glove. So everyone else sees only the glove, but He supernaturally transforms our hearts so we can relate from CHRIST to OTHERS.

    Like everything else here, it is a process.

    For me, I started out helping Ryan, and we spent much of our time discussing his mental illness, which is so severe it has him on disability. But underlying it is an extremely intelligent, sensitive, tender man, and I fell in love with him.

    As I’ve already said, I said goodbye to him, and last night I deleted every message and phone number on my phone of his. I tried to look beyond his issues, but they ruined our relationship, along with me leaning forward too much, contacting him too much.

  232.  #232Siena on May 7, 2010 at 6:27 pm

    I’m feeling nervous for tonight’s date! This feels weird, because I haven’t been more than mildly nervous for any of these CDs. I actually had a stomachache today thinking about it! Whassup with that!? I don’t get this way! Maybe I’m feeling a little sick…


  233.  #233Erikasophia on May 8, 2010 at 4:02 pm

    i have problem , me and my partner are together almost two years , we have 6 months old baby , our sex life has stopped ….. and i m not happy with that , when i asked him questions what is wrong and that , he is blaming my moaning , he is saying that he doesnt feel like having sex or anything with me becouse i m picking on him all the time and bitching obaut things ………… but itts not like that at all ! I m not picking at him or bitching !
    He says he loves me , but i dont see no love in our relationship from his side ……. for some reason i started to dought him , i thought that he is seing somebody ealse , and when i asked him is he seing anybody ealse he gets so angry , trows things angry so much , and shouting at me to stop aqusing him in things that he is not doing , so i just straight answer to him …. that he must be is having sex somewhere ealse , couse its not with me ! we are arguing all the time , i have lost my trust in him for many other reasons ,like dissapiering for full day ,and sneaking out on me once for a drinks with guys so as he said ! i dont trust him , dont know what to do next ,,,,,, wanted to end the relationship , but he kept saying that he loves me and doesnt want to loose me or baby ! he allways is tiered ,….. , we are not having a normal conversations ,,,, when i start to talk obaut our relationship , what we should do to make it better he gets verry angry and shouts at me that i m talking rubish ! do any of you have an advice for me ? what should i do ?

  234.  #234Rori Raye on May 8, 2010 at 5:44 pm

    Erikasophia, Welcome, and I don’t know what’s going on here, but it sounds pretty awful. There likely are many things you are doing that are triggering him, and stopping doing those things (questioning him, making him wrong, trying to talk about the relationship) will clear up a lot of that stuff and get the anger out in the open and sorted out. At that point, it’ll be easier for you to see what’s going on…if there IS another woman, or if he’s having other issues – it will come out. And yes – you have to go first by dialing back your insecurities and focusing on yourself. We’ll all help you…Love, Rori

  235.  #235softy on May 8, 2010 at 10:56 pm

    wow I don’t if this true, this article saying “regular sex enlarges women’s breasts”


  236.  #236Lucy on May 8, 2010 at 11:14 pm

    Softy — I haven’t read it yet, but off the top of my head, it actually makes sense. Men share their testosterone with us when we have sex, and our bodies convert testosterone to estrogen — and higher estrogen causes increase in breast volume and density. 🙂

  237.  #237physical therapist on May 9, 2010 at 2:50 am

    This is such a great resource that you are providing and you give it away for free. I enjoy seeing websites that understand the value of providing a prime resource for free. I truly loved reading your post. Thanks!

  238.  #238tinque on May 9, 2010 at 7:51 am

    Softy – It has been my experience that when newly with a man, especially if there has been a sexual dry spell prior, that my breasts can get quite large, as much as two cup sizes larger, and they can stay that way for awhile, but eventually the hormones balance themselves out, and the boobies more or less settle down to what they were.
    I say more or less because they can still periodically get larger for several weeks or months at a time and having nothing to do with my cycle.
    And they are I suppose mostly bigger than they once were.
    I would imagine that the regular sex would have to be intense and intimate in order to stimulate the type of estrogen that would cause them to swell.

  239.  #239softy on May 9, 2010 at 8:14 am

    Lucy & Tinque – Thanks for sharing 😎 love ya!

  240.  #240Apple Jacks on May 9, 2010 at 10:12 am

    Wow, COOL! Thanks for that Tinque. I also noticed that even the mere sexual attraction for someone made mine swell a bit and stayed swelled! Hormones are so fascinating.

  241.  #241Lucy on May 9, 2010 at 11:00 am

    “I also noticed that even the mere sexual attraction for someone made mine swell a bit”

    Yep. They swell as part of physiological sexual arousal — just like other parts of us swell when aroused. 🙂

    “I would imagine that the regular sex would have to be intense and intimate in order to stimulate the type of estrogen that would cause them to swell.”

    All it takes is a man with good testosterone levels — the testosterone is transferred into our bodies through his semen and our bodies convert it to estrogen. 🙂

  242.  #242tinque on May 9, 2010 at 11:08 am

    It also requires emotional receptivity from the woman.
    For me, if there is not some sort of connection, the man can have all the testosterone possible, and it will have no effect on me.
    For me the more intense the connection and/or the experience, the more of an effect it has on my physical body, namely the breasts.
    It’s of course possible that other women respond differently than I.

  243.  #243Daria on May 9, 2010 at 11:31 am

    Yeah I have reactions even without semen getting transfered. Tho i have even More reactions when that happens.

  244.  #244Lucy on May 9, 2010 at 11:52 am

    Tinque — There are two separate, distinct processes going on, both of which can affect breast size.

    The first — arousal — does require emotional receptivity, and is what you are experiencing here: “For me the more intense the connection and/or the experience, the more of an effect it has on my physical body, namely the breasts.”

    The second — the acquisition of additional hormones — only requires testosterone-loaded semen, which female bodies convert to estrogen via the endocrine system. It’s just like adding synthetic, bio-identical, or plant estrogens to your body — except potentially way more fun. 🙂

    I just read Daria’s post. Right — the breast swelling from arousal does not require semen, just arousal. 🙂

    And the breast swelling from testosterone does not require arousal, just testosterone.

    Put ’em both together for the biggest result. 😀

  245.  #245iwonder on May 21, 2010 at 3:09 pm

    the only thiing we had going on was sex. and this time it was just not there. he didnt initiate anything, didnt want to french kiss, pulled away from my hand in public. He hasnt contacted me in a week since he left and I havent him. I know its time to move on but didnt want to accept it. Now I feel like I let him make the decision to end it instead of me. I dont know how i feel. confused?

  246.  #246iwonder on May 21, 2010 at 3:15 pm

    omg, i just finished reading through the comments, and did not see Roris advice above. Thanks so much for the personal reply! That was very good advice that made me think. But I should update (about the last post I just wrote) that he and I met up again (have been on and off for years) and this time he was very distant with me. He did not initiate sex or anything and seemed embarrassed of me. Could it be the weight gain? IDK but hes the only man I had ever met that told me he didnt care about weight and even proved it when he initiated sex the last time and I was a bit heavier. Now it’s like hes just given up? I guess I should have been happy to have the sexual attention and not complain? I am moving on from him though. I dont like the way I felt when I was around him. 🙁

  247.  #247diane31 on September 17, 2012 at 8:17 pm

    I know these posts are old, but I don’t know where to go? Has anyone experienced this? I have recently started to date someone I have known casually for more than a year. We get along great, have loads in common, I am pretty sure we are both in love, but…..he won’t sleep with me other than that first thing in the morning roll over deal. The first time we started to hang out alone we almost ended up in bed. Then we stopped and he explained that he didn’t want to go there until he was sure in case it didn’t work out – we know people in common and he didn’t want anyone to think he was using me. We talked about this again a bit ago, and he said he wants to wait until it is really special because he sees us together for the rest of our lives, and when I am having a bad day he wants me to look back and know he treated me differently. This guy has been divorced for 8 years, and has pretty much spent them being a dog – something he has never tried to keep secret, so I guess that statement seemed a bit romantic at the time, but now the lack of sexual intimacy does nothing but confuse and frustrate me. When we are together, which is practically every day now, at least for a short time, he is very affectionate. He always initiates touching, hugging and kissing (not passionately), but I just can’t take it! I actually ended the “relationship” last week, telling him if he can’t be intimate with me, what’s the point, let’s go back to being friends. So…now he is calling more, coming around more, being super helpful around my house, being extra attentive, and just an all around perfect boyfriend. I am a single mom, and this coming weekend will be the first “alone time” since I made my statement. I insist that we be friends, and he insists that it takes two to breakup, and he is not doing that (yeah, he is a little odd, lol!). I am certainly not going to try to initiate physical intimacy over the weekend, but does anyone have a suggestion what to do should if he doesn’t? Or any opinions of why he would be this way in the first place?

  248.  #248Amanda S. on September 18, 2012 at 6:42 pm

    I have a similar situation with a man (I’ll call him J) that started with really hot and heavy nights and visits. I was actively practicing Rori’s techniques when we met and J was all kinds of ready to casually date me, then he started really falling for me and said I love you, even popped the question one night when he was drunk..(I had to giggle it off, but I was quite pleased.) The feeling is definitely mutual, and he still shows signs of this, very obvious signs; He says he doesn’t like it when I’m not around, and does things like lights candles for me, kisses me, hugs, me, holds my hand, sleeps with me at night and holds me until morning, and calms me when I have nightmares at night. He still does all this, and even asked me to move in with him. This all just rocks my world.

    But at the same time, something with his libido changed. He moved places in town and can’t stand his job (he works at an adult store…I can imagine that might burn someone out…) I started seeing him more regularly and he all of a sudden after moving stopped having sex with me. It’s a very push-pull situation…

    Now he refuses sex, and pushes me away when he feels angry about me wanting more or even angry for liking me so much (it usually comes out in a moment of vulnerability for him, like being “tipsy’.)

    What I gather from this info from Rori, and what he’s said to me, he is in fact angry; angry that he loves me, he said he swore off commitment, but it looks like he’s gravitating toward it with me and I feel he is sad/scared/angry.

    I want to know what I can do along with circular dating. I am quite good with that. I just want to keep my morale up and my energy up and positive, and light his “fire” again….

    I’m very confused. You know the saying “The Honymoon is over”? That’s how I feel. I really want it back. I feel very safe having sex with him and want to keep having it. He just tries the “friends” thing basically. I bet what happened is he went from thinking “hot babe” to “mommy”…

    Wow. I feel so down, disappointed, crushed even. I asked my mother what she thought (She is the Queen of “Siren” tools, and she doesn’t even use the program, she’s amazing) and she said the idea of Rori’s of telling him I’m uncomfy with the situation, so I’m going to keep my options open, is a good idea, I have to look out for number one…

    He says if I live with him sex will make it not work. I feel that if he doesn’t want to give me sex, but wants me around emotionally, he either needs to accommodate me or let me keep my options open.

    I feel anxious for this to work out! 🙁

  249.  #249Amanda S. on September 18, 2012 at 8:27 pm

    Whoa this really clicked in my head!!!

    “A man instinctively feels that if a woman stays with him exclusively when he can’t provide sex – there’s something wrong with her – he’s too important to her.”

    I need to tell him I am circular dating like NOW.

  250.  #250Femininewoman on September 18, 2012 at 8:41 pm

    diane31 you might wish to join everyone on the most current thread

  251.  #251Amanda S. on September 19, 2012 at 12:04 am

    God dammit. I feel so out of control and upset. Unpretty, angry, volatile, left out, frustrated, humiliated. Alienated and unsatisfied, and used as an emotional tampon.

    Yes I realize we all say these things sometimes after we believe we’ve just worked it out on paper, or on here with Rori…which feels incredibly frustrating…so incredibly…because Rori is he ultimate helper with this right? The second-guessing drives me insane and fills me with anxiety.

    I don’t want to be at my parent’s. I want to be with him. I’m going to miss him laying next to me at night, if I can sleep at all.

  252.  #252Femininewoman on September 19, 2012 at 1:16 am

    Amanda how about sharing on the current thread

  253.  #253Amanda S. on September 19, 2012 at 1:28 am

    Femininewoman, May I have a link? I don’t know which one you mean.

  254.  #254Dominique on September 19, 2012 at 5:34 am

    Amanda S – You can’t control him, meaning you can’t make him want you again, but you can CD which you’ve been doing.

    Know too that when a man’s mission is lacking or he’s unhappy with it, i.e. his work/career, his sex drive will be greatly affected.


  255.  #255Femininewoman on September 19, 2012 at 7:08 am