When There’s No More Sex…Be Done With Him

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10-6 love yourselfHere’s a horror story from “Soon-To-Be-Broken-Heart” – and it’s actually something that men do all the time when they don’t want to be in a relationship or can’t be.

We’re always shocked by this move of withdrawing sex – but many, many men do it this way…

Rori, I’m 23 years old, I have been living with my 25 year old boyfriend for the past 8 months. For the first 3-4 months we were having sex 2-3 times a week – what I thought was a normal “healthy” number. I am crazy for him and even in the beginning I always wanted more, naturally the fact that he makes me feel 100x better than any man I have ever been with in my life contributes to me wanting to have sex more then 2-3 times a week, but I understand that has not a machine and has his own emotions/feelings/ thoughts/moods so I have always made an effort not to press for sex or try to coax him into it.

So 8 months, a lay-off, a move and a knee injury later I find myself on a forum desperate for any advice I can get after a long night of crying as quietly as I can without waking him up. For the past 5 months we have been having sex 1-2 times per month. I feel like EVERY time we have had sex in the past four months I have just bluntly initiated and in most cases sort of “forced” it to happen.

This behavior is totally out of my character because I struggle with low self esteem and in the past have NEVER had sex with a boyfriend unless they clearly wanted it bad…to be honest in the past 4 months the only time we have had sex it was purely based on me being desperate and him feeling guilty. Just typing that out makes my insides twist up.

I have tried everything I can think of to get him interested again..I’ll do anything he wants to do as long as we both come out of it alive and we are not going to get arrested over it then I am game all day long and he knows this. Sometimes I will get into bed naked and he will come into bed put his arm over me and fall asleep without ever even feeling under the blankets to know I am naked laying there screaming inside my head for him to just touch me…

I have tried a more direct approach – just straight out telling him how badly I want him, usually ending the same way as the naked in bed approach.

I have hinted joked commented and even tried to trick him into having sex by tickling him and “accidentally” fondling his general area so that he gets an erection – even that has failed on multiple occasions. Needless to say all of these efforts have ended with me feeling so horribly rejected, unattractive, unloved, unwanted and just downright ugly and disgusting – all while my seemingly clueless boyfriend sleeps blissfully inches away from me.

To add more “heavy” to my head he has also been out of work for basically our entire relationship, resulting in me having to get a second job. In truth every hot meal, shower, scrap of clean clothes warm dry bed, every beer, cigarette and every rent payment he has had in the past 7 months has been worked for and provided by me.

Not to mention we both smoke copious amounts of pot (also paid for by me). He has been putting in the effort to find a job but it is very difficult particularly now with it being winter (he is a seasonal worker) .

In any case I find myself EVERY day seriously questioning whether he even loves me or ever did…maybe this is just an easy ride for him and he doesn’t even care enough to muster up the effort to have sex or make it seem sincere anymore. How can I work 11 hours a day at two jobs and still want him more then he wants me every day?

I don’t care about the stuff or money or time and effort that I have put in..if all that stuff was just scammed out of me then fine – fuck it…I am just scared to my core that he doesn’t love me, and that we truly have no future together.. that would be what really breaks me.

What can I do? How can a man have a full on erection and be alone with the woman that he supposedly loves naked in bed and not want to have crazy sex? If it was an issue of erectile distinction then I would be 100% supportive and understanding – but it isn’t. How can a man have a full on erection and turn over to go to sleep? How does that even happen????

I ask myself if maybe its me maybe I am not satisfying him…then I think back to my past boyfriends who asked for sex/oral sex every day, sometimes twice a day. I know that I try harder with him then I have with any x as far as putting in the effort to satisfy him sexually particularly with oral sex and still he turns me down. I am constantly thinking about sex I daydream about it I try to pleasure myself but it falls so short of how he makes me feel. Even if I use toys its still no good. I end up more turned on and sexually frustrated then when I started. I am so built up that even giving him oral sex would be some release… but even if I try to initiate giving him oral sex he usually turns me down, and I know for a fact that I am at least good at it.

I think at this point I am going to do my best to stop initiating sex all together..if we go one day over a month without sex then I am leaving him – does that sound cold or unfair? Please let me know…I can’t live like this, but I also know that I can’t live with regretting throwing this relationship away. Please help! I love him more then I have or ever thought I could love anyone. I would get married to him today if he asked me to even if it meant that I never had sex again for the rest of my life as long as I knew he loved me.

A soon-to-be broken heart.

My Answer:

Broken Heart, Here’s my thinking on this:

This idea that you “love him” and have to “have him” is all in YOUR head – and I’d ask you to look at it differently.

In the simplest terms – things always are what they are.

They can’t be fixed until they’re accepted.

Meaning – being with a person who’s deliberately – yes, deliberately and knowingly – withholding the basics of relationship: sex – is not good for you.

You have low self-esteem because you’re determined to get what you want from HIM – and, of course, he’s not giving it.

Your best move here is to tell him to MOVE OUT!!

To STOP supporting him!

Put HIM in the friend zone!

Get yourself together, write a speech, and simply say that this isn’t working for you as a romance and a relationship, and you’d like to stay friends with him, of course, but that you need him to leave so you can start dating other men.

Straight out.

Then you DO that! Start dating other men and leave him in the dust.

He’s opting out of this relationship.

Do NOT buy into his game.

If it were me, I’d tell him I assume he’s gay, or no longer attracted to me, and that that might work as a friendship later on, but for now, it feels too awful, and I just want a clean break and some space.

Then I’d cry and move on – AND have my own money!!!!!

Love, Rori

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  1.  #1Syrena on March 25, 2013 at 9:29 am

    We here about gay men getting married and not coming out until later.

    How does this happen? How does a gay men have sex with a woman?

  2.  #2lilly on March 25, 2013 at 9:58 am

    i’m feeling broken. i had been seeing a man for about a month and last night we had “the talk.” he said he wasn’t ready to settle down in the next 2-3 years which was something i had said to him in our previous date.

    he is 30 and i’m 36 and i’m feeling like it wasn’t that he didn’t want to, but that he didn’t want to with me… i don’t know? i didn’t sleep with him so i’m feeling happy about that but i wonder if did i send him non-verbal messages that i wasn’t a quality woman?

    i do struggle with my self esteem and in the past have been known to give more of myself to a relationship or man in order to win his love. with this guy i was different! i’m proud of myself for staying true. i did spend some of the evening with him and did make-out with him but made it clear that it was “just fun” and that it would be our last time and then he could find someone else to have “fun” with. he didn’t want to believe that we wouldn’t see each other again and i mentioned it to him several times that this would be our last time together.

    i’m feeling broken, did i do the right thing? what if we had dated for a few years and then he was in love with me? i know he was attracted to me but i didn’t trigger the commitment- well he wanted to date me exclusively but couldn’t see himself married in the next 2-3 years… is that about me or his life? please help!

  3.  #3Rori Raye on March 25, 2013 at 10:13 am

    lilly – if he calls again (and he just might) – can you consider Circular Dating him and also dating other men? The problem here after only 1 month isn’t what he said or didn’t say about 2-3 years (that’s kind of standard for a man at his and your age…) it’s about the exclusivity, and how crazy and insecure that would make ANY woman feel in this situation. Read the ebook at least, and you’ll understand how this works. Love, Rori

  4.  #4Elsie on March 25, 2013 at 11:11 am

    @Mercedes from the previous post – your words are right on as per usual…..I missed your voice on here!! 🙂

  5.  #5Syrena on March 25, 2013 at 11:16 am

    hear not here. doh!

  6.  #6Emoticon on March 25, 2013 at 11:31 am

    Wow this situation feels so sad and desperate.

    Hope she had the strength to break up with dude.

    I feel so annoyed, angry and pissed the **** off when I see a woman totally supporting a man who does NOTHING for her, nothing for the relationship…. like WHY

    I am seeing this EXACT situation first hand before my eyes right now….and before that saw it with a former friend…. it frustrates me, i wanna shake those women and say “STOP STOP STOP”

  7.  #7Indigo on March 25, 2013 at 12:02 pm


    I am also terribly triggered by a woman supporting a man financially. I’m not talking about for brief periods when she already has the relationship she wants and it’s a temporary thing, but where she is not getting her needs met and it is a permanent and ongoing thing where she gives him all her money!

    It makes me terribly cross!

    Sorry, just in my belief system, this is basic, basic stuff. It is triggering to me to read about this poor woman working two jobs 11 hours a day, and this man watching her go off to work each day.

  8.  #8Femininewoman on March 25, 2013 at 12:11 pm

    Wow. Rori’s advice in the article triggered an EMK moment for me. StraighT up, no BS.

  9.  #9IamHis on March 25, 2013 at 12:11 pm

    if anyone has any feedback on what I wrote on the previous thread, I would really appreciate it. Thanks!

  10.  #10IamHis on March 25, 2013 at 12:24 pm

    From previous Thread:

    @632: Dominique

    Iamhis – 629 – “no man that I actually want wants ME enough”

    And how do you know this? What IS enough? What does this mean? What does it look like?

    How do I know this? I don’t know. I feel like a man wanted me enough, he would step up and claim me.

    What IS enough?

    I don’t know. A series of dates? a request to be exclusive? Showing every girl that flirts with him that it’s completely pointless because he wants ME?

    How would he show that? I don’t know. Walking away from them? Showing her that I’m the one he wants, not her?

    What does this mean? It means…it means…it means he wants me enough to make me HIS officially and publicly.

    He shouts it from the rooftops! He buys me a ring! He picks me up and drops me off in our home! Even if it is just a humble apartment, I’d be happy. 🙂

    What does it it look like?

    It looks like “Back off girls, I am TAKEN! THIS GIRL RIGHT HERE IS THE ONE I WANT, THE ONLY ONE I WANT!!!!”

  11.  #11lilly on March 25, 2013 at 12:24 pm

    thanks for the help…he asked for us to be exclusive on the previous date, that’s what threw me off? it was like he wanted to be with me for the time being it seemed but ultimately he couldn’t promise a marriage in 2-3 years. i totally understood that too, i mean how could he and i determine that when we are still getting to know each other? but again is it timing?

    if he approaches me again i will let him know that i will see him but that it won’t be exclusive and will i will circular date. or should i txt him and let him know that? neither of us are playing games which feels good.

    it all felt so weird, even as he walked me to my car he initiated us holding hands… 🙁

  12.  #12IamHis on March 25, 2013 at 12:24 pm

    I feel really bad for the girl in this post. 🙁

  13.  #13IamHis on March 25, 2013 at 12:27 pm

    maybe he’s starting to do this already, and I’m just not seeing/ or appreciating it.

    He always says my name when another girl is flirting with him.

    That’s kind of a big deal, right?

    wow, that’s really sweet now that I think about it…

    “Hey, hot girl, you’re hot and everything, but this girl is on my mind, and so I’m saying her name, so she knows it and you know it and I know it…”


    How do I show him how much I appreciate him?

  14.  #14nme008 on March 25, 2013 at 12:37 pm

    I’m gonna catch up in a minute IamHis and offer anything I can. Writting a looong email right now and it’s feeling good!

    Side note: It’s NOT to M. 🙂

  15.  #15IamHis on March 25, 2013 at 12:43 pm

    I feel like so much of my interaction with Jack CD is him doing and saying really nice, wonderful things to me, me not seeing, misinterpreting, and messing up, and then me trying to fix what I messed up…

    *big sigh*

  16.  #16Mercedes on March 25, 2013 at 12:44 pm

    “If it were me, I’d tell him I assume he’s gay, or no longer attracted to me, and that that might work as a friendship later on, but for now, it feels too awful, and I just want a clean break and some space.”

    Me too…

    Much Love,

  17.  #17IamHis on March 25, 2013 at 12:44 pm

    I feel so worried because the last time I saw him he just left without saying goodbye. that makes me feel worried and like something’s wrong…:(

  18.  #18Mercedes on March 25, 2013 at 12:46 pm

    FW: 8 – I’m curious…how so?

    Much Love,

  19.  #19Mercedes on March 25, 2013 at 12:49 pm

    Elsie: 🙂 Thank you!

    Much Love,

  20.  #20Dominique on March 25, 2013 at 1:06 pm

    Iamhis – 10 – Okay, so you do know what this means and what it looks like, yet can shouting from the rooftops look very different than actually shouting from the rooftops, eg. how he looks at you, treats you, is with you?

    Can a ring look like something else for awhile, eg. I have no examples.

    I didn’t get a ring for six, seven years, and it was not meant as an engagement ring. Yet I got SO much from this man, far more than any ring could represent.

    You may have not met your “the one” yet, and is this so awful? Many women don’t until much older, myself included.

    And in retrospect, I feel good that life had me wait.


  21.  #21Dominique on March 25, 2013 at 1:08 pm

    Iamhis – You show him by saying thank you, by melting in the moment, by smiling, and FEELING how good you feel. He will feel this in you.


  22.  #22IamHis on March 25, 2013 at 1:12 pm

    Thanks, Dominique. I struggle with showing gratitude, because I feel so darn scared and insecure sometimes.

    “You show him by saying thank you, by melting in the moment, by smiling, and FEELING how good you feel. He will feel this in you.”

    I kind of did this over the weekend, I think.

    Sometimes I say thank you, but struggle with feeling it. Sometimes I feel all those good feelings, but forget to say thank you.

    Oh well. Live and learn, I guess. 🙂

  23.  #23Mercedes on March 25, 2013 at 1:24 pm

    IamHis: You said this: ” Showing every girl that flirts with him that it’s completely pointless because he wants ME?

    How would he show that? I don’t know. Walking away from them? Showing her that I’m the one he wants, not her?

    What does this mean? It means…it means…it means he wants me enough to make me HIS officially and publicly.”

    AND then you said this:

    ““Hey, hot girl, you’re hot and everything, but this girl is on my mind, and so I’m saying her name, so she knows it and you know it and I know it…””

    And then all you have to do is saying something like: “You are so awesome!” With a huge smile on your face and looking right into his eyes.

    He might say “why do you say that?” and you can respond with “you make me feel so special”.

    He’ll love that and he’ll feel appreciated and strong and manly and all that. He will know that he made you happy and it wasn’t even something you were asking for.

    But it’s kind of key not to continue to let that stuff go unnoticed or he’ll feel like you didn’t notice. 🙂

    Practice paying attention. The best way is maybe to practice journaling about it. Every night after you’ve seen him, think of all the amazing things he did/said that you didn’t really notice in the moment. This will help you start being alert to them, you will notice them more quickly and, in my opinion, you will begin to melt right there in front of him…

    Much Love,

  24.  #24nme008 on March 25, 2013 at 1:38 pm


    Ok, that was a long one. Lets see if I can respond on each point. I feel like I may also not have been clear on some things before in the post you were responding to. (I feel like this is therapy and I’m LOVING it so can I just through a huge thank you in here real quick!)

    I definitly have security issues so to answer would this be enough for me? That’s a hard thing to answer. If I knew this was just how he was and it had nothing to actually do with us and his feelings for me were the same then yeah I could deal with 2 weeks of space. It also has to do with my insecurity of wondering if I’m welcome where he is. Like once before we were texting a little and then it stopped so later I was unsure of our dinner plans so I swung by his house. His mom was visiting and still there so she told me he was at the bar shooting pool. I went there and when I said something about not knowing what was going on he said “you knew where I was” I was so confused cause I had no idea where he was. He looks at me and says “if I don’t answer a call or text you know I’m shooting pool” then he finished up and we went to dinner. That was one of my favorite nights, I did my thing all day then watched him play pool for a little, then we had a great dinner out and went to his house watched our show and fell asleep together. The next morning we woke up, he showered while I was in bed and then I kissed him good bye and went home and he to work. I loved this! That’s what I want all the time. He did his thing and I did mine, and when I went to pick him up his friends asked him to stay and play cards and he said no, he choose me.

    I don’t need his attention 24/7, but I need to know his feelings haven’t changed. Or I guess I don’t need to I just want to know. How did you express to J how much it bothered you that he would say one thing and do another? With out pushing him away?

    Here is where I may have not been clear. I am scared to use the love word and I don’t let myself think about it. Thats not saying I don’t L word M…. I may be falling in love with M but I’m not prepared to think that deep. A huge part of me feeling what I’m feeling now may just be that I am falling in love and am soooo scared the exact opposite is happening with M.

    Tiny tid bit on M….he dated his high school sweetheart for 11 yrs! Proposed and was told no and that she was actually sleeping with someone else. After that he had another long term gf for 4 years. Not sure how that one ended. But I do know two things about M, well 3…first he’s a relationship guy, second he has been hurt soooo bad (he’s said it so many times to me and also when drunk a few times repeated for me to please not hurt him) and third…he fell for me hard in the beginning. When we had our one break up his friend that I spoke to told me that he warned M to take things slow w me and he didn’t listen, he fell hard and that was why he ws soooo messed up over or short break up. Since we have been back together is when the distance has started. Off and on…

  25.  #25IamHis on March 25, 2013 at 1:45 pm

    @23 Mercedes – Thank you! That felt super helpful. 🙂

    The more I type about him, think about him, the more I realize how special he is. 🙂

    Don’t want to think about him too much, though.
    Have to keep my own fabulous life going full throttle!


  26.  #26Mercedes on March 25, 2013 at 1:59 pm

    nme: “How did you express to J how much it bothered you that he would say one thing and do another? With out pushing him away?” – I didn’t. He couldn’t be pushed away because he was meant to be with me. What I said was (in response to him saying he would call me and after a couple of weeks of not really doing that most of the time when he said he would) was “Really? Will you? Because that doesn’t seem to be what’s been going on lately and quite honestly, it’s rude to leave me hanging like that. If you’re not going to call, I’d much rather you not say you will.” Or something to that affect. It was pretty heavy with sarcasm and frustration (I was annoyed and didn’t care if he knew it. He was being rude and I wanted to call him out on it…I think I might have even laughed a little when he said it…). It wasn’t pretty and it wasn’t goddess like and it probably wasn’t something I “should have” done but I did, he called and I never brought it up again. I think J is the kind of guy who likes when I call him out on stuff I don’t like but I also think he really, really appreciates the fact that I never bring it up again. When he called that night, I was genuinely happy to hear from him and we had a fun talk. I didn’t mention it at all and neither did he. We communicate and then let things go. I love that about us.

    PS: Yeah…that other comment was long. I kept typing and typing and typing whatever I was thinking and after I posted it, I thought “wow! oops…” 🙂

    Much Love,

  27.  #27Mercedes on March 25, 2013 at 2:00 pm

    IamHis: “Don’t want to think about him too much, though.
    Have to keep my own fabulous life going full throttle!”

    YUP!!! 🙂

    Much Love,

  28.  #28nme008 on March 25, 2013 at 2:33 pm


    I have to admit I’m confused a bit. How you responded to him is exactly how I would do it…THAT is me to a T. But I’ve been getting that is not what I should do. lol, as you did state. Uggg I don’t know. Damned if I do Damned if I don’t.

  29.  #29nme008 on March 25, 2013 at 2:35 pm


    I emailed you….it was really long. Don’t know if you will acually be able to read it or respond. I’m concidering posting it on here….not sure. There is a lot that I would and do judge myself over in it but it felt good typing out my entire story, not just M and my story….plus it’s really loooong…..

  30.  #30nme008 on March 25, 2013 at 2:35 pm

    Everyone….would that be a bad idea? What I was saying above to Dominique? I’m nervous….

  31.  #31Mercedes on March 25, 2013 at 2:48 pm

    nme: I don’t think it was something I should have done and I wouldn’t do it again that way if faced with it again (unless maybe if it was a long pattern but certainly not if it only happened a couple of times). I could have easily pushed him away with that kind of “drama” – although it wasn’t a lot of drama, it was more to the point but still…I wasn’t exactly inspiring him to feel closer to me. To call when he said he would call, yes, that was true. But to feel open and safe and close to me? Not so much. Those feelings came much, much later. At the point when I said all that, he was pulling away, we were long distance (over 1,000 miles apart) and the only contact I had with him for 2-3 months at a time was over the phone. I needed those calls. There was a much better way for me to say it than getting sarcastic and telling him it was rude.

    But that’s all hindsight. I didn’t know Rori or this blog at the time and I didn’t know a lot of other things.

    Now…if it was a regular thing and a guy was doing that several times per week/month? Yup. I’d say it just like that and not care at all if I pushed him away. I’m not really interested in being with a man who isn’t true to his word and I doubt I would hesitate to tell him.

    So…I guess what I’m saying is that the way I said it (which is the way you would say it) can make a guy call when he says (or stop saying he will call…) but if what you really want is a man to feel closer to you and to feel safe with you then I would do this:

    1. If it’s not a pattern and has only happened a couple of times, try to let it go. Lots of reasons why a man doesn’t call once in a while.

    2. If it feels like it is becoming a pattern then next time he says it, say something like “Lately when you say that, I haven’t been getting the call and it makes me feel XXXXX.” Or whatever. Something that says “It doesn’t feel good when you do this.”

    3. If it IS a pattern, have at it. Say whatever you want. He’ll either start calling when he says he will or stop calling completely but who wants to be with a man who doesn’t do what he says he will?

    Much Love,

  32.  #32Mercedes on March 25, 2013 at 2:52 pm

    And you can pretty much feel safe posting anything here (no matter how long or how far back in your life it takes us with you) but privately, Dominique is a fantastic coach too. 🙂

    Much Love,

  33.  #33Libelula on March 25, 2013 at 4:07 pm

    lilly – wait until he calls you again. Read the ebook, write your speech & be ready. But for now, texting is just going to feel like pursuing to him now. It’s time to lean back. *hugs*

  34.  #34Libelula on March 25, 2013 at 4:08 pm

    Rori – I’d like to know if your advice still applies if the couple are married to one another? I’ve seen many situations where it seems the husband has completely gone off the wife sexually & the wife is frustrated. All her attempts are rebuffed.

  35.  #35Syrena on March 25, 2013 at 4:17 pm

    “If it feels like it is becoming a pattern then next time he says it, say something like “Lately when you say that, I haven’t been getting the call and it makes me feel XXXXX.” Or whatever. Something that says “It doesn’t feel good when you do this.”

    3. If it IS a pattern, have at it. Say whatever you want. He’ll either start calling when he says he will or stop calling completely but who wants to be with a man who doesn’t do what he says he will?”

    I love that advise. Straight to the point without attacking. Not always easy to do in the moment.

    Much Love,

  36.  #36Syrena on March 25, 2013 at 4:21 pm

    One thing however what I have notices is sometimes men will say ” call you later” So it is very open ended.
    As what does later mean? Later that day, tonight? Tomorrow, next week?

    I remember asking once what does later mean as to me I don’t actually now it is ambiguous and a certain man looking like a deer caught in the headlights.

    Any thoughts?

  37.  #37Syrena on March 25, 2013 at 4:22 pm

    know not now

  38.  #38Syrena on March 25, 2013 at 4:25 pm

    It would feel good to hear what advice would be given Libelua in those circumstances. I am guessing the answer would be to CD.

  39.  #39k2012 on March 25, 2013 at 4:26 pm

    “LOL i’m not worried about that, and thanks for the warning.” Hi ladies how are u? I have not been on here for quite some time writing cause I have been so busy with some horrible deadlines. I was reading the blog last night however catching up with the two threads before this. I am actually quoting from Elsie who was commenting on the man who told a fellow poster(don’t remember who that is) that she mustnt fall in love with him. I cracked up when I read Elsie’s comments and feel compelled to join that debate although it is from a previous thread. Trust me if any man was to tell me that I mustnt fall in love with him, I would immediately think he is not interested. I told one of my sisters about this. In fact, I asked her the question-if a man told u that u mustnt fall in love with him, what would u think? She immediately said that she would believe that he is not interested. I share the same view. I haven’t even read the the above thread yet. Will do so shortly.

  40.  #40Elsie on March 25, 2013 at 5:16 pm

    nme – I will tell you that with my guy he was going through a really rough month – and when I say rough – I mean roughest of his LIFE. Ever. Horrible.

    And at the end of that month, after there had been no connection or dates or anything. …. I said to him, this…..

    “I’m feeling disconnected. Quality time is my love language and when I dont get that I start to feel distant and detatched. It feels icky to me to chase you and I dont want to row the boat in this realtionship. I know you have had a hard month, and I just need to know where you are at so I can know what I need to do. Can you help me with this?”

    It was all about ME. What *I* needed. I didnt get angry. I truly and honestly wasnt MAD. And he knew I wasnt. He could tell. I was just saying that I felt disconnected and I would like his help to find a solution to it – and if he didnt he KNEW I WOULD TAKE NO FOR AN ANSWER….HE KNEW I WOULD.

    So I had no expectations.

    That was last Monday. As most of you know – this last week has been the best week of my entire relationship. Full of honesty and connection. There has been an emotional intimacy that has far surpassed anything I have ever known.

    And its because I was honest with my feelings in a way that had NO EXPECTATIONS. It was REALLY OK whatever he answered I just needed to know.

    I know that pulled him right to me. He saw no drama. He saw that I just needed what I needed from him, and he realized that he had been distant and wanted to provide it for me. Now, he is a GREAT guy….BUT VERY VERY VERY EMOTIONALLY NOT THE GREATEST LOL LOL…..

    He is ISTP if you know what that is – introverted and not emotional at all….so if this works with HIM, it will work with a cyborg robot. 🙂 LOL. I promise.

    Anyway – the point is that it worked because I really meant it – I wasnt saying it as a script to try to GET HIM to say something, etc. It took a LONG TIME for that to “click” for me if that makes sense.

    And trust me, if he had rejected me, I would have been heartbroken, but I would have known that Idid the right thing by discussing my needs in a non-dramatic way.

    Again, this last week, and especially our date yesterday was unbelievable.

  41.  #41IamHis on March 25, 2013 at 5:33 pm

    I’m sitting here, and my negative voice is like, “If he really cared about you so much, why hasn’t he done anything official after all this time? Why does it feel like right when things should be getting more serious, does it feel like he puts things right back at square one?”

    He left without saying goodbye.

    It’s a technique. It’s called The Walk Away, and it “gets her thinking about you” and it’s what you do when you feel like you’re losing power in the relationship.

    He wasn’t happy with me, so he walked away.

    I don’t know what he wants me to do!

    I smiled shyly.

    I don’t know what else to do. It didn’t feel right to go over to him. I felt too nervous and wouldn’t have had any idea what to do/say anyway.

    maybe it would have meant something if I had just said nothing.

    beating myself up now…:(

    “You may have not met your “the one” yet, and is this so awful? Many women don’t until much older, myself included.”

    It’s hard to wait when you want someone physically and are saving yourself…

    that’s what I will continue to do…

    I keep thinking that he is thinking the exact same thing that I am thinking:

    if SHE really cared about me so much, why hasn’t she said anything official after all this time?

    and the thing is, I almost did…

    but it just never feels right…

    I feel sad.

    and stuck.

    and really worried.

    My heart got torn to shreds last time I “didn’t speak my feelings.”

    Is this really the right thing to do?
    I don’t know what “the right thing” to do is.

    I feel jealous of girls who have a guy who does the work for them.

    I feel like I’m in masculine energy, and it’s exhausting.

    I just want to BE.

    I feel scared and teary…

  42.  #42Scarlet on March 25, 2013 at 5:43 pm

    I haven’t been on here for a while because I feel too embarrassed.

    My man and I became very close over a two month period (after two years of on and off). He was clean, we saw each other almost every day and were planning for our future. We wanted to buy a house together at the end of the year, so were doing some financial planning. I agreed to take out a $7000 loan for him (because I own my own house), and he is paying me back by direct debit of $100 per week. But since then he has gone back to drugs and I am left heartbroken. I have since told him I can have nothing more to do with him but am now struggling with the feeling of being used, hurt and most of all feeling like an idiot because even though he is currently paying it back, I am left with a substantial debt for nothing.

    I have been doing a lot of reading about codependency and I believe this has sure been my big problem in life. I am as addicted to him as he is to his drugs. Only difference is I want to get better. Not sure how though.

  43.  #43Elsie on March 25, 2013 at 5:50 pm

    @IamHis – I am sorry you are feeling so crummy. (((hugs))) All I can say is you can speak your feelings to him but if you do – you cant have an agenda and you ahve to be willing to hear no for an answer.

    @Scarlet ((HUGE HUGS)) Please dont feel bad. We all learn lessons in life!!!! I’m sorry yours was an expensive one – but mine was too – if it makes you feel better you are not alone at all. You wanting to get better is the biggest and hardest step. I was totally codependent too – have you heard of the book – Codependent no more?

  44.  #44Scarlet on March 25, 2013 at 6:12 pm

    Thanks Elsie. I am keen to read anything about how I can overcome this codependency. So if you can tell me who the author is, I will try to get hold of it.
    Thank you for your support.

  45.  #45BeLoved on March 25, 2013 at 6:14 pm

    FiestaCD texted me, “My passion for you grows more every day.”
    I responded, “We’ve only spent 10 minutes together at the grocery store, I feel exasperated and turned off.”

    Went to cook dinner, come back to a voicemail about how he’s not crazy, he really wants to be with me and spend time with me and he’s really not crazy and if he has feelings he’s going to express them, he’s just that kind of person. Something about when you’ve been married as long as he has (note: he’s been divorced since 2007) then something something about something. And he’s NOT CRAZY.


    No sense of boundaries and disconnected from reality. No thanks.
    No point in talking to him. Ever.
    That song by Poe keeps going through my head,
    “You can’t talk to a psycho like a normal human being.” 😀

    Thank you, universe, for making me laugh and snort tonight!

  46.  #46Femininewoman on March 25, 2013 at 6:25 pm

    Scarlet my humble opinion is that you need to set some boundaries for yourself. Ask yourself what is it about you that would make you overlook this about this man and hand over your hard earned cash to him? Don’t beat yourself up just take a good long look at yourself. Spend time looking on the inside of you. If you can find your answers, when this situation presents itself again you will be well equipped to respond in the best of your own interests.

  47.  #47Elsie on March 25, 2013 at 6:25 pm

    @Scarlet – I”m not sure – but just type that in to amazon and you will find it – good luck – codependency is really hard – trust me I know because it was (and sometimes still is…) me!!!

    @BeLoved – you crack me up!!!! Thats hysterical. He is total drama. Now we know what men feel like when women go all nutty and start planning a wedding 10 minutes into meeting someone LOL…..I”m glad you are seeing his kookiness!!!!! and laughing!!!!!

  48.  #48Syrena on March 25, 2013 at 6:40 pm

    You can go on a course for co -dependency and go on twelve step programe.

    A bit like AA twelve step programe for Alcoholics

    Where are you based?

  49.  #49Scarlet on March 25, 2013 at 6:43 pm

    Thanks Elsie – I just found it. It’s Melody Beattie.

    FW – I think I already know the answer to why I would overlook such characteristics of a man to hand over my hard earned money. I think that whilst I am being useful to someone I love, he won’t leave me. I think that the only reason someone would want me or love me is if I am doing something for them. It’s not enough to just be me. I know this thinking is flawed but I have spent a lifetime thinking it. My emotionally/mentally ill mother was always on the verge of ‘hating’ me and I thought I had to keep doing things to make her happy so she would love me. I guess that’s where it all comes from. I just don’t know how to stop behaving on those flawed beliefs. Hopefully more reading on the matter will help.

  50.  #50k2012 on March 25, 2013 at 6:44 pm

    EXELLENNNNNNT!!!! Excellent addvice there Rori! Good! Good! Withholding sex, not working for most of the relationship! A coworker of mine would say and a term which I have adopted in my dialect-“No sah.” No way. That cannot work. He is living off u my dear and using you. Rori is right. Tell him to move out. What a man out of order eh ladies! Bright! (A slang in my country. Really hope u follow the advice given my dear. Does anyone know what happen to Lori? Haven’t seen her for a long time. I believe on the last three threads. Lori, if you are reading this, hope you are okay. I haven’t even read the responses yet. I have work waiting on me. Lol. Oh my goodness. U all must be wondering what kind of work I do eh, which never ends. The good news is that I get a break on Wednesday for a week and half and I will lose it to do a lot of personal stuff mixed with work as I have another deadline when I report to work after Easter. I have to make time for myself. I haven’t been to the park in 2 weeks, but the good thing is that since I will be off for a while, I don’t have to wait until friday to go there.

  51.  #51Femininewoman on March 25, 2013 at 6:57 pm

    Scarlet I believe the place to start would be to just to stop whatever you normally do. Just stop yourself and do nothing.

  52.  #52nme008 on March 25, 2013 at 8:06 pm

    Ok…..so I’ve decided I want to share my story. Not sure who will take the time to read it, its very long lol…and this is MY story, not mine and M’s. I hope I don’t get judged but it feels good to share and put it out there….

    I was raised in a very strict Christian home. Went to a Christian school k-12. So needless to say my parents didn’t really have a sex talk w me, it was “no sex till marriage” that was it. I had lots of boyfriends but never had sex. I’m not saying I wish I would have…but I am saying I was very inexperienced.

    I was married for 11 years, got married when I was 18. When I was married for 7 years I had an affair, something I never thought I would do and am very ashamed of. My husband found out and begged me to stay and work on our marriage. So I did, out of guilt. We had two kids together and I was the one that stepped out on us. The cowards way. Through all the couseling we grew closer and although I wasn’t as happy as I wanted to be it was better. Or so I thought. As we were still in the fixing stage my youngest sister was killed. So all our energy was on just holding it together. Then I got pregnant. I was shocked, it wasn’t what I wanted at all, it took me probably half of my pregnancy to deal with it. Then when the baby was 1 1/2 he left. Uggg. I felt him pulling away and kept trying to fix it and it didn’t work. When he left it crushed me but at the same time relieved me. I wanted out. 6 months before he left he said he was thinking of leaving, I asked him to stay and try and he did, I found out during this time that him and my best friend were talking and texting EVERY DAY starting early morning and going on all day. So in the end not only did I lose my husband I lost my best friend.

    Moving on…..my husband was the only man I ever had sex with till my affair. And once I had my affair I realised how lacking our sex life was. So needless to say after JD (my ex husband) left and a month later was introducing his “new” girlfriend to our kids I wet and did some sexual exploring and had fun. I wanted no relationship and just wanted to experiment. I had a LOT of sex. You know what? I don’t feel guilty about it either, maybe I should? I selpt with a lot of men. I found out what I liked about sex and didn’t.

    Last summer I met JW on an online dating site. He was the FIRST guy that I wanted to see again after the first date. We had so much in common, he was separated from his wife the same amount of time as JD and I were separated. He had full custody of his two kids and after a month he introduced us. I spent every other weekend with him when my kids were with their father. He took me to AC for the weekend once. We always had fun. But if I’m honest he was draining, he was always moving and going….never relaxing. He always paid and was a gentelman. Unlike what I was doing for the last year being single I didn’t sleep with him right away, I liked him. I waited a month of dating, we were exclusive. But he had lots of insecurities and eventually he just got distant and fell off. He literally just unfriended me on FB and that is when I text him and was like “what’s going on???” and he said he thought I got the hint since he was distant, and that he just couldn’t do this anymore….I was crushed. What did I do? It was great then just wasn’t. It lasted just under 4 months.

    Insert more casual dates and sex, at this point I had 2 guys that I would be with and it was understood it was just sex nothing more with us, I wasn’t sleeping with anyone I was just going on casual dates with.

    Here is where it kinda starts with Mike. In Sept my girlfriend and her daughter moved in, we were both struggling finacially and needed eachother’s help. We both didn’t have our kids on Wed nights so decided this would be our girls night. We bar hopped for a couple of weeks and finally found a place we liked (she likes dives, I hated them, this was a happy middle for us) so we decided it was our wed night place. Well the first night there one of the bartenders, R, was flirting with me and walked us out at the end of the night, I ended up giving him my number. We talked for about a week and then …. I slept with him. I KNEW it was a mistake, he changed right after. Or so I thought. So I kept it casual, I would still go on wed nights and he would chat with me and text me. We went out on a date once but he didn’t even kiss me. I was casually dating other guys still and just thought he and I fell into just being friends. So imagine my surprise when he texts me one day and tells me he thinks things aren’t working with us and he’s moving on. WHAT???? I didn’t know we were an “us” at all.It was awkward but it ended up being ok.

    Well a month later I’m out having my “divorce party”. This is the night I met M, I never talked to him before. My attention was always on R when I was there. M flirted with me all night and then I left. No numer exchange or anything. Well the next week on wednesday he was there again. I will admit I was drinking a lot this night since I wasn’t driving. Well M walked me out and I ended up making out with him….and it continued, to his car….to my house. We seriously did not sleep, we got to my house at 3am and he left at 8:30am. We were together all night just kissing, and sex and a million other things. At this point I didn’t even know if it was a one night stand or anything else. But as he was leaving he asked for my number and text me as soon as he was at work. He asked when he could see me again but I had my kids that weekend so that day was the only other day and I was working till 10pm, he came over after….

    Day 3 with him we hit our first bump. I had no idea M and R were friends. R was there the night I left with M and made eye contact with me…he said “don’t not do something on my behalf” so I didn’t think anything of it. Was really weird cause on day 3 I was saying to my sister that since they both play pool at that bar I felt like I should tell M about R just incase it came out in the future. Well someone beat me to it….apparently R and M had a mutual friend, D, that thought M should know I slept with R and told him. M text me right after he found out while out at happy hour asking if I slept with R….he was upset….he felt dumb….but he ended up coming over that night and talking about it with me and decided that what little we created with eachother in two short days was worth getting past this bump.

    After that M came over every night I didn’t have my kids. We went out every weekend. Even nights I had my kids he would come over after they went to bed and bring pizza and wine and we would cuddle and watch tv. I knew I could fall for this guy and hard. He was funny, sensitive….he adored me. Would tell me how lucky he was and how beautiful I was. We had sex alllll the time and it was amazing! We spent New Years Eve and day together and after he kissed me at midnight he spun me around and said he thought his New Years was off to a great start.

    Then a few days later we were at the bar on a wednesday night….it was another bar tenders bday (D, the one that told M about R) and he asked some of us to stay after the bar closed to hang and celebrate his bday. There was only 5 of us that stayed, I wasn’t drinking much that night since I was driving M and I home. Well the birthday guy (50’s, married) was showing us his gifts and we were all doing a toast for him then I went to give him a kiss on the cheek and say happy bday…well he grabbed my face and planted a kiss right on my lips. I was SHOCKED!!!! And as soon as I got my wits I pulled away. I was expecting a big deal to be made but it wasn’t so I decided to not make one, all the guys were drinking. I did look at M and say “What was that!” and M just said something about D being really drunk. I kinda thought it would all just end there. M came home with me, the next day we had amazing sex in the morning and then he spent the day with me and my 3 year old, he went home got his dog and brought her over , we all took a walk together…it was just a really good day. Then that night we were texting….hot and heavy stuff and talking about what turns us on and that kind of thing, just having fun. Then he says “well watching you make out with D was a huge turn off” I was floored, I didn’t know where it came from since he didn’t say anything all day with me. And I didn’t make out with anyone! I was taken advantage of. Well he ended up not responding to me when I text him back, he wouldn’t take my calls. And a few days later he said he felt disrespected and hurt. He wouldn’t let me explain. I called and text a few times then I told him I was gonna leave him alone and just see him on wednesday. Well he totally tried to avoid me on Wed and I wouldnt allow it. I yelled and cried, he followed me home and we talked some more. He said he didn’t want me out of his life but he was so hurt. Well I was hurt! I was being blamed for something that wasn’t my fault, but I apologized anyway, cause he was hurt and I was involved in it. I couldn’t handle us being over over this! Well Friday he came over and told me he couldn’t date me any longer. I knew it was coming but it still broke my heart. I told him he was making a mistake and would regret it. He said he wanted to talk to me still cause he really wanted me in his life still. I told him no. I couldnt do that.

    He left to go to work at the bar and blew my phone up….texting me saying can we talk more, am I ok, he doesn’t like seeing me cry, please answer him. FInally I said “I’m not trying to ignore you I just dont know what to say” so he says say you’ll talk to me, please, stop ignoring me….so I agreed to talk to him the next day. He called, we talked, nothing changed, he said he missed me. The next day he asked me to meet him at the bar to “hang” well it was really awkward at first then we just fell into us again. He came home with me. We talked after that night about the bar not being great for us, we basically were like the bar’s hot couple. All eyes on us, it was to much. So we stopped being there that much, things were different but not horrible. Then he was out of work for 2 weeks because of a surgry and I was taking care of him and with him everyday. It was like the beginning of our relationship. Well things got bad when he went back to work. He became distant, he said I was pressuring him. It just changed. Now I do know he was up for a promotion that they were dangling over his head and he is still in school for his masters (accounting) and he has a commitment to the pool team he is on. And he was going to court with the possibility of jail time (house arrest). But after the court was done and everything was thrown out I thought things would go back to normal, but it didn’t …. I don’t want to lose him. I really care about him and might be falling in love with him…scary! What should I do?

    P.S. The court thing? After we were together for 2 weeks he was pulled over leaving my house, random thing. Well apparently his license was suspended for not following through on a class he was supposed to take SEVEN years ago for a DUI. So he has been taking classes and paying fines and getting that lock thing installed in his car…charges were dropped cause of his cooperation but it was very stressfull and embaressing to him and he still has to have the breath thing in his car for a year. Which makes seeing me hard during the week. He can’t drink even a glass of wine and drive. So he relies on me to pick him up and drive when we go out. He doesn’t like this, I don’t mind but I get how it makes him feel.

    So that’s my story….start to finish lol or start to now…

  53.  #53Emoticon on March 25, 2013 at 8:15 pm


    It really pisses me off too. SMH…. I understand how you feel!!

  54.  #54Emoticon on March 25, 2013 at 8:23 pm

    Syrena RE:36

    I love how you put that. I have had to some to terms with later to me is not equal to later to him.

    I had to ask my BF (then CD) …. when is later? He says later anytime, like 2moro….its really “open” like “anytime after this moment”

  55.  #55Linda on March 25, 2013 at 9:07 pm

    It’s always dangerous to get involved with someone with a substance abuse problem.
    Years ago, I married someone after just a few months of being together. He had a past with drugs, drinking but was now clean, going to college, etc. turns out I learned quite quickly I got him on the “up swing” and he slipped back when things got stressful and his old friends showed up; disappearing, hanging out at the local bar, spending all our money on coke. I was really crazy for him, he really “got me” and we were very close. But I had to let him go. This was not the life for me.

  56.  #56nme008 on March 25, 2013 at 9:08 pm

    Mercedes_31_ That sounds perfect! I will def use that advice, thank you. As of right now it’s only happend twice…but both times were within the week. Sooo lol, I’ll let it go for now.

  57.  #57nme008 on March 25, 2013 at 9:11 pm

    Syrena_36_ I know what you mean. I always want black and white answers. In my case the Sunday night he said he would call “tomorrow” and didn’t. And then last night he said he’d call when he was done pool….I doubt he is still playing and I haven’t gotten a call yet. BUT we kinda got in a text war/fight so I’m thinking it may be a few days. I’m NOT making contact though. Gonna be strong. I’m actually feeling really good.

  58.  #58nme008 on March 25, 2013 at 9:16 pm

    Elsie_40_ PERFECTLY put!!!! I hope you don’t mind but I actually copied and pasted your post and emailed it to myself so I can use some of your wording in my speech. Not sure when I’ll have it but I want to be prepared and I love how you phrased what you said.

    It’s so hard to let yourself have all these feelings and be so open with someone and have no expectations. I’m struggling with that. But I don’t want to have my talk with M till I have this taken care of. I need to go into it in the right emotional state and mind set.

  59.  #59nme008 on March 25, 2013 at 9:17 pm

    ((((((((((Scarlet)))))))))) my heart goes out to you! I’m so sorry your going through this.

  60.  #60Emerson on March 25, 2013 at 10:39 pm

    This article is spot on… Either the guy is cheating or he’s just a weirdo or he is gay.

  61.  #61Gazelle on March 26, 2013 at 12:03 am

    Hi everyone,

    It’s been awhile since I wrote! I’ve been reading and following though, and I’m glad to see that many of you are doing well! I am writing because I just need someone else’s opinion on this! My fiancé is flying FAR away for a month for a job-related thing. He doesn’t need the entire time there but he wants to give himself extra time in case some professional opportunities come up. He says he doesn’t want to have to fly back (expensive, he is studying and I am working) in case something does come up while he is there. I understand his leaving for work and while I was not happy with the length of time, I was okay with it because it was for professional development. Then, last night, he asks me if he should take three days or a full week to meet up with some friends. I asked if it was work related, and he said mostly for relaxation. I feel like my efforts and sacrifices for him are just taken for granted! I work so hard at my full time job and pull in 100% of our money right now, we are doing a side job for extra cash, and we are planning and saving for our wedding. He feels like it is okay to take a holiday and see his friends for a week while I am at home doing everything in the house, at my job, at our joint side job, make all the arrangements for our wedding, etc. What do you all think? Is he being unfair? I keep thinking that he could just wrap up quickly if he didn’t need the extra time and come home. Our parents are contributing a little to our wedding but because he is not working, most of our funds for the wedding come from my income. I don’t need him to work and contribute equally, I just need to feel like he is contributing in every small way he can and is as committed to sacrificing and saving and working hard towards our wedding. Otherwise, things have been fairly good in the last few weeks for us. Thoughts?

  62.  #62Vi on March 26, 2013 at 1:14 am

    I remember listening at level 2 when I need smth from him. I feel guilty. I love me, I love my guilt.

  63.  #63Femininewoman on March 26, 2013 at 1:16 am

    Gazelle you seem to be sacrificing too much. I would just stop if I were you as it is obviously not inspring his masculine instincts.

  64.  #64Femininewoman on March 26, 2013 at 1:18 am

    nme you have an interesting story.

  65.  #65Vi on March 26, 2013 at 1:23 am

    It would feel good to listen at level 2 agenda-less.. I feel curious what if I try level 2 listening with my mom.. I expect tons of triggers and I feel afraid that I end up beating myself up for failing to do L2L good enough.. I love my expectations and I love my agendas. I love my fears. I love my choices too

  66.  #66Julie on March 26, 2013 at 1:38 am

    Hi Rori, I want to join your teleclass on 27th March. I live in the UK. Can you tell me the time difference because I don’t know where you are in the US so I know what time to be on line. Thank you

  67.  #67BeLoved on March 26, 2013 at 3:05 am


    Elsie, I KNOW, right? I woke up giggling about it, it’s cracking me up right now thinking about 🙂


    I am really digging Rori’s advice in this post.
    I went batsh!t nuts over a M a couple of years ago, and he would not have sex with me. His story was that he was afraid of disappointing me, which made me go into overdrive wanting to come up with great ideas to make HIM comfortable
    all the while he was withholding from me
    and dating other women, doing everything he could to earn their confidence so they would sleep with him.

    B used to withhold, too. I would be lying in bed, saying, baby, come on back to bed! While he was on the computer, having virtual Sim sex. Right there in front of me.
    It was hilarious and tragic at the same time.


  68.  #68Sirenity on March 26, 2013 at 3:18 am

    Love this post.

    This happened to me not long into my 16 year marriage . He drew further away , in no time sex every 3 -4 months. Two kids later and sex died completely.

    Initially I tried everything to get him interested . He just withdrew. Suggestions of counseling or reading sex guides together were seen as a serious attack from me and treated by angry silence and avoidance.I found a letter related to his work but it sounded too cutesy wootsey , and from a guy. I asked him straight out if he was gay. His anger was dark and seething but still silent apart from the denial. Not long after he wrote me a letter telling me he didnt want to be married and suggesting discreet affairs till the kids grew up. I did not accept this. As soon as I could (after more lonely years) I suggested separation . His only comment was “yes , we’ll make it from the new financial year” .

    I dont really think he is gay, just shut down. And angry and bitter. he took up with the women he wanted and has been many years ‘with ” her , just not living with her.

    The point is i was so injured by his rejection and so struggling with a chronic illness at the time that i just did not see that it WAS MY RIGHT TO SEX IN MARRIAGE and that his witholding without discussion or reason was DELIBERATE and HURTFUL.

    I should have left before the kids came but I believed we were supposed to stay together and grow together with time..sigh..

    I understand now , based on his subsequent behaviour which was calculated to injure me in any way he can , that he is an angry man who is passive aggressive and uses these witholding , withdrawing and silence techniques to manipulate and control.

  69.  #69Sirenity on March 26, 2013 at 3:52 am

    60 Gazelle, I wonder whats wrong with him taking a break ? He is just doing what he is doing. But you are doing what you are choosing too , and it sounds like you are choosing to do a lot , exhausting yourself , then feeling angry at him for not making it all better somehow . His choice to rest and relax a little for a few days feels like salt in the wound if you have expectations for him to work as hard as you on your timetable. Its the expectations you have of him that are fuelling the bad feelings.

    If you choose to STOP some of this and just be still , how would that feel? Rori teaches in all the programs as far as i can see, its our own overfunctioning that makes us distressed ,she describes this so well in Reconnect Your Relationship.

  70.  #70Syrena on March 26, 2013 at 4:43 am

    53: Emoticon

    “Syrena RE:36

    I love how you put that. I have had to some to terms with later to me is not equal to later to him.

    I had to ask my BF (then CD) …. when is later? He says later anytime, like 2moro….its really “open” like “anytime after this moment””

    nme008. I feel concerned that it appears you are making your happiness and happy ever after about this one man.

    Thanks, Yes I now believe it is just a figure of speech with no clear active intention behind it. So take it as it is, get on with my life and when they next call or ask me out, I most likely will not be there at their beck and call at the drop of a hat. and they will need to put some effort in to get my time.

  71.  #71Femininewoman on March 26, 2013 at 5:22 am

    Hi Julie,

    This link will take you to the area where you will be able to see time differences


  72.  #72Linda on March 26, 2013 at 5:41 am


    Reading your post.. brings these thoughts and questions.

    Is this man “your man” and a your partner in life? Different seasons in our lives come and go. Each requires different investment of energy while working toward the same goals.

    If he is doing his part in the grand scheme of things toward your agreed goals it is going to look different than you doing your part. It is not always equal (which is what I hear you saying you are feeling). Everything that you listed you are doing feels exhausting to read let alone doing it.

    What would it take to adjust your situation so it feels balanced and right for you is a question I would be putting some serious effort into right now.

  73.  #73IamHis on March 26, 2013 at 5:47 am

    @51 (((((((((((((((((((nme008)))))))))))))))))))))) – You know, I was right. In a weird way, we do have a lot in common.

  74.  #74Linda on March 26, 2013 at 5:53 am

    I have not posted in a while… but been reading.

    Rori’s advice to this thread is spot on! Get out, and move on! I choose to do just that.

    I have come to realize that holding on to what is not right or good for us, occupies the space that is designated for what would be right and good for us. In other words. out with the wrong, to make way for the right.

  75.  #75Shar Lean Way Back on March 26, 2013 at 6:40 am

    Linda, how are things with , was it , Favorite CD ?

  76.  #76BeLoved on March 26, 2013 at 6:42 am

    I’ve been getting affection ALL OVER the place this week!
    I’m feeling so comfortable with it, too.
    When my friends in WA are saying they can’t wait for me to come back and snuggle with them, I believe them – there’s a feeling of, yes!! Yes!! Let’s do it!
    In contrast with feeling suspicion, of feeling like…something in my belly how it used to feel kind of “butthurt” and whiny and hmm, how to put it…
    mostly that I just didn’t really believe they wanted me around.

    C has been super yummy and it feels easy, another guy, D here at work has been coming up and tentatively putting his hand on my shoulder, sort of patting me and expressing in ways that let me know he likes me, which he hasn’t done before (I’ve worked with this man for 2 years!), JD and C have been tons more playful (and C REALLY had an attitude for a while), B, the ‘old geezer’ here, came up this morning and sort of did a hip bump against me, and none of it feels pressured or smarmy or shady or creepy.

    C has been cracking jokes all morning about FiestaCD and hanging outside the doorway playing the ‘peeper/stalker’ and cracking me up.

    I also noticed, that with this latest round of healing my gut – I used to be off of wheat and taken a gazillion supplements, and I remember there was a feeling in my gut that I HATED – I even dreamed once that I thought there was a little hand reaching in and twisting my gut and I was beating it and threatening to kill it, only to realize it was a tiny little hand trying to reach OUT from the INSIDE.

    I wanted to BEAT that feeling to death and get RID of it. Now, I just want to care for and nurture it, as if I heard a baby crying and want to cuddle, kiss it and give it the breast. Be kind to it. Love it.

    So different.

  77.  #77nme008 on March 26, 2013 at 7:18 am

    FW_63_ How so? I’d love to hear your thoughts…

  78.  #78nme008 on March 26, 2013 at 7:23 am

    IamHis_ Really? Hmmm…. 🙂

  79.  #79Emerson on March 26, 2013 at 7:43 am

    I feel a m

  80.  #80nme008 on March 26, 2013 at 7:44 am

    You know how you all keep asking what it is I want in a relationship? Well I’m dedicating time to this today…..one thing I know is important to me is communication. I know I keep hearing let him come to you and this leaning thing but I can’t get past if there isn’t open and easy communication between the two people there isn’t a relationship. I hear you Elsie on wanting to be sure he wants you and I like that concept for the beginning but when I find a true long lasting loving relationship I want to be comfortable going to him.any time w anything.

  81.  #81nme008 on March 26, 2013 at 7:46 am

    Emerson_ what do you feel? a m?

  82.  #82Emerson on March 26, 2013 at 7:48 am

    I feel a mix of feelings… I feel left out from my friends who I used to work with… I miss being part of that group and doing fun things…
    I know there is a time for everything and I have to live in the present. I also feel a bit “fed up” with my dating as I’m meeting Lots of guys thru th dating site but I’m not meeting anyone promising … It’s all more practice and I suppose I need to trust the process and trust that the one above is looking out for me…
    I feel deflated at times and I even have days where I miss my college boyfriend 🙁
    I also feel that I’m moving in the right direction because I’m making some changes that feel good…
    I’m all over the place sirens but just needed to vent…
    I’m learning about myself and how I’m so triggered by men using work as an excuse to not prioritize me ….

  83.  #83Emerson on March 26, 2013 at 7:50 am

    80 lol NME I hi publish by mistake I’m on my phone !

  84.  #84Emerson on March 26, 2013 at 7:51 am

    I feel that there are a lot of selfish men out there ….

  85.  #85nme008 on March 26, 2013 at 7:59 am

    Emerson_ I totally get where your coming from.I remember online dating and while it was fun to go out a lot it was disappointing in the selection so to speak lol.

  86.  #86Dominique on March 26, 2013 at 8:20 am

    nme – I sent you a long reply last night to your letter. Just want to be sure you received it.


  87.  #87nme008 on March 26, 2013 at 8:25 am

    Dominique_ I did. Thank you sooo much! I am just waiting to get on a computer today to respond, to much to do on my phone. I’m so greatful you took the time to read and respo d though. Thank you, really hoping I can work w you some.

  88.  #88Femininewoman on March 26, 2013 at 8:33 am

    nme I believe your story is interesting because there is a lot there that you can go over to see what lesson you can take from the experience. What a man can give you is very limited. You can give a lot to yourself. A lot more than any man could ever give. I have been silently following your posts and I sincerely feel like just dropping everything and turning towards you would be your best bet. I keep getting the sense that this man is really not in your life.

  89.  #89Kath on March 26, 2013 at 8:44 am


    Rori says we shouldn’t take on the masculine role of doing- and you seem to be doing just that. Not only that, you’re over-functioning!- when you said that you were earning and not him because he’s a student and you were saving, and your parents were saving for your wedding- I wondered what he was actually doing for the wedding???- I would have an alarm bell ringing if it were me- and I would also say to him that it was fine for him to go away for a month to look for work and to take a week off to see friends and what a good idea it was. I’d say something like, “That’s such a good idea to take some time off, I think I’m going to go and see some friends when you get back from you’re week away. That way you can take care of the house and I don’t have to worry”- and then I’d just go- start being less open with him and doing more things for you. Take Care xx

  90.  #90Memulo on March 26, 2013 at 8:44 am

    Happy Passover to everyone!!

    I feel nervous and disturbed today. There is a chance I may run into dumbcd tonight and I need to decide how to be have if I do. To walk over and slap his face.. to be a boring familiar ‘nice’ girl who will shut up and proudly look the other way.. to do nothing as usual.

  91.  #91Femininewoman on March 26, 2013 at 9:21 am

    Memulo how about be a siren, lean back and just magnitize 100 men towards you?

  92.  #92Femininewoman on March 26, 2013 at 9:25 am

    I feel annoyed and tricked by your Happy Passover comment Memulo, as if someone pulled some wool over my eyes thinking I am stupid and would not see what they were really doing. Mainly because of the comment about dumbcd and yourself. It feels like the Happy Passover was an inauthentic comment to draw my attention to reading your post. When truly you are not feeling happy. Just pissed and angry.

  93.  #93Femininewoman on March 26, 2013 at 9:28 am

    I guess I must have had my face slapped in the past and I still feel angry about it. Thanks for bringing this up to heal. I feel myself shaking and like my energy is pulled forward to slap somebody back.

  94.  #94Memulo on March 26, 2013 at 10:03 am

    Happy Passover was a polite thing to say, plus I celebrated last night and had a great time. Instead of dividing it into 2 posts I posted once. I am not really happy, but not angry either. Humiliated is the right word.

  95.  #95Memulo on March 26, 2013 at 10:06 am

    You had your face slapped FW? It’s hard to believe it and I am sorry if it ever happened to you. I have slapped guys’ faces, though have not done it for a long time. It feels like a feminine thing to do if I feel insulted. It’s not a physically hurtful gesture either, just a moral one.

  96.  #96Linda G on March 26, 2013 at 10:14 am

    It’s actually kind of wonderful to wish happiness for others even though you might not feel at your personal best
    Happy Passover

  97.  #97Femininewoman on March 26, 2013 at 10:18 am

    I don’t know Memulo. To me it is disrespectful. Also communicating that a man owes you something and is not entitled to make decisions for his own life. Slapping a guy’s face is kind of suggestive that he can return the favor. What makes you feel entitled to be able to slap a man’s face? Now that I think about it the last time I felt a loss of power and respect was with my son and yes I did slap his face. But felt like shit after. It even felt like I was teaching him that women can be disrespectful to him and slap his face because they don’t know how to express themselves.

  98.  #98Femininewoman on March 26, 2013 at 10:24 am

    I find myself struggling with the “polite” thing these days. To me it now feels pretentious and superficial. It’d rather deal with a real person rather than a polite person. That way I know what I am dealing with.

  99.  #99Memulo on March 26, 2013 at 10:28 am

    Thank you Linda G 😉

  100.  #100Memulo on March 26, 2013 at 10:32 am

    FW, I never slapped my son’s face. I did once when a guy who I had a history with tried to kiss me and I said no. I would do it again. Another one in a similar situation.

    What’s wrong about well wishes? I did not mean to cover how I feel or for that matter anything rather than what I said 😉

  101.  #101nme008 on March 26, 2013 at 10:47 am

    Am I just completely lost here? What is the problem with Memulo saying Happy Passover? Regaurdless if she is having a shitty day or not she still wishes everyone happieness on this time of year. Confused as to why FW seems so offended….

    and as for slapping in the face? I’ve never done it to a man. But I have to both my son and daughter. Not often but there has definetly been the occation where they needed it for being way out of line and disrespectful. Just as my parents did to me when I was out of line.

  102.  #102nme008 on March 26, 2013 at 10:47 am

    Well more likd a pop in the mouth, not an across the face slap. Just so we are clear.

  103.  #103nme008 on March 26, 2013 at 10:49 am

    But I do agree with FW about faking being polite. Sometimes I wish everyone would just be true and honest. If that’s pissed off then be that. I stuggle with this all the time. I want to be nice and do things the “right” way but at the same time I don’t want to be fake so I want to scream at someone….but then I’m told this is not how to get results I want lol.

  104.  #104nme008 on March 26, 2013 at 10:50 am

    Elsie, Mercedes, IamHis, Indigo, Emerson…..where are you today??? lol 🙂

  105.  #105Femininewoman on March 26, 2013 at 11:02 am

    I am not saying there is anything wrong with the well wishes. For me it just got lost in how I felt when I read the comment about the face slapping. I guess for me, words are powerful.

    nme you feel confused and I feel how I feel. The slap was triggering for me. I chose to express myself rather than dismiss it.

  106.  #106Femininewoman on March 26, 2013 at 11:07 am

    Memulo maybe I would do the same thing given the same circumstances. Yet it is different than what was suggested with dumbcd. I hope I will never find myself in a situation where I feel the need to slap a man. It just seem extremely risky to me. Also I would hope any man I am with will respect me enough to not inspire such actions from me.

    Is it a feminine thing to slap a man’s face or to slap a man at all? Even if it is, I wonder about the message slapping a man sends.

  107.  #107IamHis on March 26, 2013 at 11:08 am

    found out a good friend passed away suddenly, about an hour ago. SAD and in shock. 🙁

  108.  #108Femininewoman on March 26, 2013 at 11:10 am

    OMG (((((((((((((((((Iamhis)))))))))))))))))))

  109.  #109nme008 on March 26, 2013 at 11:14 am

    ((((((((((IamHis)))))))))) I am soooo sorry!!!! Sending my best wishes and thoughts your way <3

  110.  #110Indigo on March 26, 2013 at 11:15 am

    Hi nme!

    Busy day for me today. Only now checking the blog.

    *Sigh* working through some stuff today. It’s so exhausting at times, I wonder why I push myself with my personal growth so hard sometimes.

    How are you feeling today, nme? You actually have been on my mind and I was wondering how you were doing!

  111.  #111nme008 on March 26, 2013 at 11:20 am

    Indigo_Thanks for thinking of me. I wonder sometimes what others do to “personal growth” reading? Physical something? Journaling? Just trying to do the same and am always open to new ideas.

    Today has been off and on good and bad. I woke up feeling pretty bad, had a dream and M was in it. Don’t recall the dream but it had him on my mind first thing in the morning.

    I’ve also been feeling….really raw and nervous after sharing my ENTIRE story last night on here…lol. It felt good to write it out but after I posted it I felt scared.

    But over all I’m doing well today. Haven’t reached out to M and this is a first, if it goes past tomorrow it will be the longest we haven’t talked/text/seen eachother….lots to wonder about. But trying to just BE.

  112.  #112Indigo on March 26, 2013 at 11:26 am

    Gazelle 60

    I also would suggest stopping the “party” so to speak in some way.

    If it were me, I would sweetly and with no conflict say to him that he is welcome to stay a week, and I wonder where he is going to get the money from?

  113.  #113nme008 on March 26, 2013 at 11:29 am

    Indigo_111_ I LOVE that. lol.

  114.  #114Indigo on March 26, 2013 at 11:33 am


    With the personal growth, for me it’s all of the above – reading, although I’m selective about what I read. I’ve read some amazing stuff, which I’ll gladly recommend if you like. I have just, just started therapy, and I’m excited about that.

    Also, practising mindfulness tools, being aware of when I feel bad and doing things to shift that and look for the better feeling. And practising how I communicate with others. Not trying to hold an agenda, but so that my true self and my true intentions come through.

    I’m glad you’re doing well. Taking time to just BE is never wasted. Amazing stuff eventually comes to you if you are patient.

  115.  #115nme008 on March 26, 2013 at 11:37 am

    Has anyone else read Dominique’s blog today? It hit home soooo much with me and was just wondering if anyone else related…my stupid laptop won’t allow me to copy and paste the link though lol.

  116.  #116nme008 on March 26, 2013 at 11:39 am


    I would love reading recommendations!

  117.  #117nme008 on March 26, 2013 at 11:44 am

    I NEED to get back to work, for my own sanity! Feeling really excited that there was a resume writting service on groupon today. Perfect timing, I’m getting it and getting it out there. I feel a new job coming my way.

    ….and that is why I’m on this blog so much lol….

    Also really happy that I’ve lost 8 lbs in the last 2 1/2 weeks on my cleanse AND took my first boot camp class yesterday and loved it! I’m slowly but surly getting there…happy about doing me.

    Emerson, I also bought a groupon for a spray tan!!! Yay! Excited to try it out.

  118.  #118Starbright on March 26, 2013 at 12:19 pm


    In reading some of your posts lately, what I am understanding is a frustration of being very, very nice and getting along vs. thoughts of trying the opposite and going into drama.

    I would just offer that neither is being true to your feelings or another in a respectful sireny way.

    What about being true and open with your feelings without blame and shame and drama? And, owning whatever is being felt without fake nicey niceness?

    Being open and feeling your feelings and choosing your words…part of the Rori way!

  119.  #119Indigo on March 26, 2013 at 12:34 pm


    I loved what you had to say to Memulo!

    I also used to carry around feelings that being nice or polite wasn’t particularly attractive to people, and that I should be more “something” or what have you.

    Until I realised that the most attractive thing I could be was myself! And that was really, really true. Own who I am. All of it. And you know what? I was brought up to be polite. And that’s me. And I own it. And love it.

  120.  #120Zara on March 26, 2013 at 12:35 pm


    “I want more” by Rory


  121.  #121Zara on March 26, 2013 at 12:37 pm


    Are you exclusive? By Rory


  122.  #122Zara on March 26, 2013 at 12:40 pm


    You were only dating this man.

    Having sex or not is irrelevant. Being exclusive or not is irrelevant. Meeting his family or not is irrelevant. Being taken to his company Xmas party is irrelevant.
    Saying I love you or not is irrelevant. A man can say “I love you” to the woman he is having sex “for now”, his FWB. He can be sincere as love means a wide range of emotions that are not differentiated in the English word “love”.
    He may mean love as in love for his romantic lover or spiritual love for the human being she is or lust for the sexual partner or affection for the good friend she is or fraternal love for the sister he sees in her. Or he may feel love for himself and for life itself and thus he makes himself feel more of it by saying the words “I love you” to a woman.
    Some men even pay sexual workers to be able to say “I love you” to a woman.

    None of this means anything.

    It is called a committed relationship when a man says clearly “I love you, you are the woman I want and I am ready to marry you” + he sets a wedding date + you feel good about it + you accept his ring or/and his wedding date.
    After which, if you both ever decide to not marry each other anymore, you can call it a breakup as the engagement is broken up.

    Without the engagement, there is nothing to break up, hence it is not a relationship, it is just dating.
    The men are just men that you happen to know, no matter what you do with them or for how long. It does not matter if they meet you regularly or if they call on and off. They are all just men that you meet. They are dates. When you notice you have not heard from them in a long while, it means nothing, just that they were distracted somewhere else. They might call again 6 months later or a couple of years later or 20 years later, or never, they still are just dates.

    You may chose to be exclusive with one date at a time, yet it does not make it a relationship. It does not matter if you meet regularly or not, it does not matter if he speaks of buying a house or going to the moon together next year, it still is only dating but putting all your eggs in the same basket and blocking your options for happiness. And risking to feel your heart broken


  123.  #123Indigo on March 26, 2013 at 12:41 pm


    The most life-changing book I’ve ever read was “The Tao of Equus” and also “Riding Between the Worlds” by the same author. Ok, it draws heavily on what the author has learnt from working with horses, but what she has learnt about emotions and the wisdom of emotions, and the language of the soul, is truly profound, and the emotional skills she offers are ones which I truly believe every person should learn.

  124.  #124Zara on March 26, 2013 at 12:43 pm

    The price of commitment by Rory


  125.  #125Zara on March 26, 2013 at 12:45 pm

    The diva creed by Rory Raye


  126.  #126Zara on March 26, 2013 at 12:49 pm


    “Just saying you make a point to talk with me when I’m working regaudless of what I’m doing…I always stopped what I’m doing to listen or respond. I could have had severe problems last night and it’s like “what’s the problem with M”…Not like “Oh M’s doing his job”..Then you say today let’s talk…I say fine. Then you say face to face…Well you demanding something doesn’t make it happen. If you wanted to talk today could you have given me notice not say let’s talk while I have been shooting pool with — for a half hour”

    “I don’t want to come off as a prick. It’s not like I don’t want to see you”

    He might have meant:
    “you are asking me right now to see you and I am not a prick, I am not refusing to see you, but it will have to be later. I did not dump you and then ignore you like pricks do with their dates.. When you drop by at work, I still do stop what I am doing and I talk with you. We are not dating anymore but I did say I agree to talk today, yet if you want it face to face it will have to be later. It is not like I don’t want to see you. I just need to be told ahead when you want to be seen so I can free some time for your chats. I am not trying to be a prick when I remind you that I might get in troubles when you come to chat with me at work and I can’t put my pool team on hold just because you want a chat with no warnings. I am only trying to get my boundaries respected”
    He did start the first text with ” just saying”.
    He was just saying… To a friend…


  127.  #127Zara on March 26, 2013 at 12:51 pm

  128.  #128Zara on March 26, 2013 at 12:54 pm

  129.  #129Zara on March 26, 2013 at 12:55 pm

  130.  #130Zara on March 26, 2013 at 12:56 pm

  131.  #131Zara on March 26, 2013 at 12:57 pm

  132.  #132k2012 on March 26, 2013 at 1:13 pm

    Memulo, Is dumbcd the guy who disappeared on u? Don’t remember. So u might run into him tonight? If so, just ignore him. Just be yourself. That’s the best thing. As Sandford used to say on “Sandford and son” act casual. I think it was Grady used to say that. Remember that show. Up to yesterday, I was speaking to Hairdresser when she came to my house to do my hair and she asked if I ever heard from disappearing ex. I said “No sah”. I said to her that sometimes I don’t even remember him and if I was to run into him at our batch reunion in the summer, I would just walk past him. If he spoke to me and said hi, I would answer but I would be in no discussion or talking with him. I would just ignore after the “hi hello” and it would have to be initiated by HIM. Oh Overseas cd and I spoke a bit and we are not communicating anymore. Don’t know if he going to come to the batch reunion which I just mentioned. I have forgotten about him as well, remembering only once in a while like yesterday and now. He seems a bit withdrawn and said that he is working very hard and by the time he reaches home, he just wants to go to his bed. I pick up that he is not ready for a relationship and is throwing himself in his work. Pick up this especially with the death of his close friend. Probably still mourning. One of my sisters reminded me on Sunday that going to conferences is a good way to meet men. I totally forgot as hairdresser had told me this and I didn’t remember. I was telling her last night what I have mentioned to u ladies-that I don’t feel like meeting anymore men online (yet) as I have interacted with 3 men via facebook, one of whom I got involved with and feel like instead of meeting men on facebook or dating sites, I want to meet someone face to face instead of online. Even if its online, it has to be the same country, which means I will have to meet them in a couple of weeks like a month (got to be cautious). Don’t want anymore online long distance relationship. Want to be able to see the person often enough.

  133.  #133nme008 on March 26, 2013 at 1:30 pm

    Zara_121_ I’m sorry but I 100% disagree with you. This may be how you choose to view relationships but it definetly is not how every man and woman does. I was married for 11 years and may not ever decide to get married again. That is not to say I will never be in a committed relationship again. My brother is gay and cannot marry his partner but they are very much committed to eachother, for 5 years now. What you have described to me is a very sad way to view the dating world. There are non committed dating relationships and there are committed ones. Each person chooses what type of relationship they are in and most choose it together.

    As for 125_ you said in the bottom that M was saying …to a friend. That is not the case cause regaurdless of what you said prior about nothing to break up we are in a relationship, as we have said it to eachother before. And an exculsive one at that. So it is not as a friend….although the rest of your post there was good.

    And thanks for your suggested links but I am not in an imaginary relationship. That would mean I thought it up in my head without M having been part of conversations around us. Which is not the case.

    To each their own opinion and way to live but I do not choose to live that way believe the way you do about relationships. If I were to go out with another man now, I’d be cheating on M as would he if he was seeing and talking to someone else without ending things with me. He just might be done with “us” and that’s his choice but he hasn’t said it yet. I’ll wait on him for that.

  134.  #134nme008 on March 26, 2013 at 1:33 pm

    Indigo_ Thank you for the reading suggestions, I’ll look into them!

  135.  #135Femininewoman on March 26, 2013 at 1:37 pm

    When I read 121 I thought it was a cut and paste from something Rori wrote. Some of the words I heard in the youtube. Waiting for a man can be a long drawn out, self defeating process.

  136.  #136nme008 on March 26, 2013 at 1:44 pm

    I don’t know if this makes sense to anyone but I’m gonna try and expain myself a little here. I understand that a lot of people are looking for “the one” “forever” and I guess if I found him I would be excited. But I’m just looking to be in a “Now” relationship. What I want from M is a committment to now, that now he is seeing only me and sleeping with only me. I am his girlfriend now and when we have weekends free we are together and do something. I’m not saying I don’t want a forever with someone and M may or maynot be that someone but that is now my immediate goal here. I think it’s ok to have a boyfriend in the now and not be concerned with forever. My head hurts thinking about forever. But I don’t want to date multipule people nor him to while we are sleeping with eachother and I do want to have sex with him. I want everything above and open communication so that when this isn’t what either of us wants one day we tell each other. And who knows, in the process we might end up with forever but I just want for now right now….and I want respect.

  137.  #137nme008 on March 26, 2013 at 1:54 pm

    Dominique_I’d like your opinion on 121 since I thought I read that you and K were together and exclusive/committed wout having a conversation for years. Did you feel like if it ended there was nothing to break up cause there was really no committment?

  138.  #138Smile on March 26, 2013 at 1:58 pm

    I am not married, I am not sure I want to be. I DO want a loving caring AMAZINGLY committed relationship and have children as part of this, if I can. I don’t believe a wedding will give me this. I DO want a lifelong relationship, if marriage becomes part of it then great. I am not seeking a ‘ring’ so to speak.
    Amb is not yet divorced due to financial reasons although separated for 2 years, he does want a divorce. Im pretty sure he doesn’t want to get married again anytime soon, he feels bad he broke his vow for better for worse. But he does believe in marriage, maybe one day he will want that again who knows?

    If I hadn’t have remained open to him maybe not wanting to ever marry again I could have missed out on all the wonder he has brought into my life for the last 4 months, wherever it goes with us. I’m just enjoying each moment. We both want the same end goals but marriage doesn’t have to be part of this for us.

    What do you think?

    Dominique opened my eyes to seeing marriage doesn’t have to be commitment.

  139.  #139Smile on March 26, 2013 at 2:13 pm

    Wow is all I can say. I feel sadness that it can be viewed this way. Lots of my friends have been together for 7, 8, 9 years before theyve got married, if they have chosen this. I can think of several examples in my close groups.

    Cc talks about an uncommitted relationship whilst you are deciding whether you want to spend forever together. I’m ok with this. It’s a huge part of it. It takes a while to get to know someone.

  140.  #140Smile on March 26, 2013 at 2:17 pm

    They are all just men that you meet.

    Even if your buying a house together, that’s a HUGE commitment. Doing that with someone is more than just a guy you meet.

    I agree that buying a house together doesn’t necessarily give you the relationship you want.

  141.  #141nme008 on March 26, 2013 at 2:27 pm


    I am in agreement with your thoughts. I think it’s a very sad and cinical way to look at dating/relationships as a whole.

  142.  #142Olivia on March 26, 2013 at 2:27 pm


    Human history is long. Romantic marriage is a social institution we have nowadways in our society.

    Simply, intimacy between human beings is what I want, and what the tools have helped bring me with my bf and other people in my life, in a lovely fascinating way.

    Thanks Zara and all the other posters for the interesting perspectives to read on my little work break!

  143.  #143Senior Lady Vibe on March 26, 2013 at 2:48 pm

    @137: Smile says:
    “…Dominique opened my eyes to seeing marriage doesn’t have to be commitment…”

    I’m thinking you perhaps meant “commitment doesn’t have to be marriage.” Marriage signals commitment!

    Rori has spoken on different expressions of commitment in romantic partnerships; they all aren’t marriage. I believe buying a house together and setting up a household is one expression that Rori discussed… if I remember correctly…. Maybe I can find the post.

    I also have my own ideas on what a commitment would be for me. I don’t believe there is a one-size-fits-all in having the relationship that each of us wants.


  144.  #144Smile on March 26, 2013 at 2:53 pm

    I feel super excited. I’ve had a fantasy/visualisation for many many years now that Im excited will happen in the next 2 weeks 🙂

    So… I’ve always imagined being on holiday swimming in the sea but having a guy hold me in the water. I want to put my arms around his shoulders and have him kiss me in the water. Ive never ever shared this and when I’ve been away with previous boyfriends it’s never happened, theyve not been cuddly enough although shown me affection in lots of other ways. I had expectations and felt frustrated when what I wanted to happen didn’t. Poor guys didn’t even know lol.

    Amb is sooo cuddly and affectionate and I love it! I can’t swim very well and told him I’d love it if when we were in the sea he’d hold me.

    I realised most of my frustration in previous relationships was due to not receiving as much affection as Id like as in
    cuddles etc.

  145.  #145Smile on March 26, 2013 at 2:55 pm

    SLV yes that’s what I meant in a topsy turvy way 🙂

  146.  #146Smile on March 26, 2013 at 2:56 pm

    I meant it doesn’t have to be the only way to have a committed relationship. It can look differently to different people.

  147.  #147Senior Lady Vibe on March 26, 2013 at 3:07 pm

    Feminine women slap men’s faces? No. Slapping men or anyone else doesn’t make a woman “feminine.”


  148.  #148Senior Lady Vibe on March 26, 2013 at 3:08 pm

    @144: Smile says:
    “SLV yes that’s what I meant in a topsy turvy way ”

    Yes,,, I thought so…


  149.  #149Rebecca on March 26, 2013 at 4:55 pm

    Hi Sirens,

    Sorry to post on the blog again just to get things off my chest…

    Yet again I am working with someone who is driving me up the wall. She is driving me mad – she tactfully avoids my questions, she gives me no support…. Yuck I feel stuck in a rut..

    Seriously… I sometimes wonder if I walk around with “kick me” on my back..

    What is it about me??? Why do I struggle so much???


    I just feel like it’s ME all the time. Everyone else seems to glide through life.

    I had a meeting today and it was like everyone was talking martian – it was like they were deliberately trying to wind me up. The were being soo cliquey with each other and avoiding eye contact with me.

    I just wanted to run away…. I feel like yet again I am being treated as a scapegoat.

  150.  #150Vi on March 26, 2013 at 4:58 pm

    I feel guilty MH has to do smth instead of having lunch. I feel tension in knees and elbows. I love my guilt, I love my control-ness.. I love my mother-y thoughts and an urge to fix it, I can turn this energy onto myself instead.. I can feel fear too. I love my fear. Aww I feel afraid to be abandoned. I love my fear. I am okay and I will be okay.

  151.  #151Dominique on March 26, 2013 at 5:27 pm

    nme008 – 136 – No absolutely not. We have had a committed and monogamous love affair from the beginning pretty much. It has been in my view (and his too) deeper, more profound than a great many legal marriages we’ve seen/observed/heard about. We did finally get married last June, yet it changed nothing except regarding some legalities.

    If we had broken up during the time before we legalized, it would have felt devastating. For both of us.


  152.  #152Vi on March 26, 2013 at 5:30 pm

    I feel guilty and small……… Belief: anger is for grown ups only and I can’t have it, but I am responsible for making things better for them to feel happy again. I love my tension. I love my legs feeling tense. I love my head feeling heavy. I love feeling of heaviness in my head.

  153.  #153Elsie on March 26, 2013 at 6:23 pm

    Just now catching up!

    @IamHis – I am so sorry for your loss…….let us know how you are…

    @nme – THANK YOU for posting your story. That was very brave. I think that thinking about the past really helps us all to figure out what we did and what we want and dont want in the future…..good job for doing that!

    @Zara – I have to disagree with you and (gasp) Rori on this one….I think that you have a committed relationship even if you are not engaged. And I think that once that committment is articulated and agreed upon by both parties, then its a commitment. AND I would not CD at that point.

    I have a relationship right now. Its not completely defined, but I love him and he loves me, and he has told me I dont get to “kiss boys in bars” which is our code for being exclusive. I”m happy with that. When I’m not happy with it anymore if it isnt moving forward at the pace I need or want there will be another discussion, and then we’ll see … but wow. To say that you have to be engaged and thats the only real relationship – thats not my truth for sure.

    So…..on my front – my guy was over today and we talked for an hour and a half – wow – seriously? How do we still just talk and talk and talk, and then this afternoon we talked again, and he just texted me.

    I love it – but I feel like at some point, even though things are going fantastic right now – I need to figure out how much “quality time” I need with him to feel reassured, loved, and cared for. I will take time alone to figure that out and then I can communicate that to him in a non-harsh way with NO EXPECTATIONS. 🙂

    I think its only healthy. He told me that he needs to be told what I need to be taken care of – so I’m going to work on figuring that out so I can let him know how to take care of me. 🙂 Now THAT feels good. 🙂

  154.  #154Libelula on March 26, 2013 at 6:27 pm

    I’m interrupting the thread. I need help. What has worked for you in the past? Mr UnA is wanting an explanation of why I’ve broken things off with him. I thought I was pretty clear in that because I want to be in a committed relationship & he does not, I don’t want to continue in a relationship without strings.

    This is my speech: “I can’t do this [pseudo-relationship] anymore. This feels terrible to me. My gut hurts; my chest feels wrenched up. I feel worn out, exhausted, hopeless. You have no intention of committing to me. If you really wanted to be with me, you would find a way to be with me. Please leave me alone. If you ever truly cared for me, please leave me alone. “

  155.  #155sha-sha on March 26, 2013 at 6:31 pm

    Wow I feel like crying for that women!

  156.  #156k2012 on March 26, 2013 at 6:48 pm

    Oh Dominique u are married. Ok. As I type this, I was confusing u with Mercedes again. When I read that u were married, I said aloud to myself, oh Dominique is married now and then realize I was mixing u up with Mercedes. Oh gosh, I am exhausted. Oh my goodness. I am going on a break from work tomorrow but will still work from home cause I have deadlines when I return to work. I think its the time to change my job and other stuff in my life.

  157.  #157Elsie on March 26, 2013 at 6:50 pm

    @Libelula – I would change it a bit….

    “I feel confused. I explained that it doesnt feel good to me to spend time with you and not be in a committed monogomous relationship where we are both moving towards similar goals. I feel icky and terrible that I have to discuss this again, and unless there is some different information or movement in this area, then I dont feel I can offer anything else in this conversation.”

    I wouldnt say that “YOU have no intention of committing to me” because you dont know that until he tells you.

    I wouldnt say “Please lleave me alone” unless you mean it.

    And if you do mean it – then say nothing else.

    Just say that. The end. NO explanation is necessary.

  158.  #158nme008 on March 26, 2013 at 6:57 pm

    (((Elsie))) I love hearing your advice even when its not to me. Your words REALLY comfort me. Missed you on here today and am SOOOO happy you and your man had another great day together.

  159.  #159Linda G on March 26, 2013 at 7:10 pm

    Libelula, how about just
    “I am looking for love and happy ever after. This doesn’t feel like love to me”

    Hope you don’t mind my interjection here, part Rori, part Cherry Norris

  160.  #160Femininewoman on March 26, 2013 at 7:18 pm

    Libelula I love what Linda G wrote but yours feel more like you. I don’t like the part about commitment but felt you in the please leave me alone. I would say tweak it by scripting here until you hit on what resonates with you.

  161.  #161Elsie on March 26, 2013 at 7:20 pm

    @nme- Ok – wow, that made me feel super good that you just said that – haha! I feel guilty a bit that maybe I somehow steered you wrong the other night and then you had a bad night of texting with him and it made me feel guilty like I had done something wrong…..lol….thats me – always taking blame for everything haha!

    And by the way – its ALWAYS easier with someone else because you are detached…..

    Trust me I cant seem to tuck the crazy in sometimes when it comes to me. 🙂

    I did have a great day with him again, but I’m sort of nervous sometimes around him to say what it is that I want/need. Its not him at all – its me. I’m scared to say stuff sometimes because I’m afraid that my needs arent important so someone will just leave me if I say what it is that I need – crazy huh?

    So first I have to figure out what I need. Just like I did last month – I sat for a whole month and finally after figuring it all out – I told him, that I felt disconnected….and wow – look … a week later, things have happened emotionally etc and he has shown up for me in a way I never thought he would.

    Now, I just want more LOL. And more….LOL

  162.  #162Linda G on March 26, 2013 at 7:22 pm

    My feeling is to create a response that will tell your truth without upsetting yourself in the process

  163.  #163nme008 on March 26, 2013 at 7:34 pm

    Please dont take any blame. Honestly if I had listened to your advice fully I may have gotten a better ending to the night….retrospect. lol. But I am very quick to anger and my roommate came home and fueled the fire. I ended taking her advice cause she made me feel so justified in my anger. Which was not the right way to go about it. Now I just want to fix it but I know he just needs space. I created unnessasary drama….even though he started it (haha had to throw that in there). I’m still waiting on him, and you know what? I’ve got a lot done, spent quality time with my kids and only felt the gut clentching fear? twice. Both times I breathed through it and changed what I was thinking about. I’m doing well….yay me. Baby steps.

    I think it’s an amazing gift your man gave you in saying to tell him what you need. Smiles!!! What freedom.

  164.  #164Elsie on March 26, 2013 at 7:41 pm

    @nme – well, I think that your friend meant no harm. She was angry and so were you. Almost every time people are angry its because they are really at the bottom of it – HURT. So its totally understandable.

    Whenever you see him again, you could just laugh and say – wow, I won the Oscar for drama the other night. 🙂 LOL……

    And I’m proud of you – baby steps is the way to do it – and to honor and be proud of yourself the whole way!!!

  165.  #165Vi on March 26, 2013 at 7:45 pm


  166.  #166Libelula on March 26, 2013 at 7:48 pm

    I like everyone’s ideas – it would be really easy to just use any of them

    So how about this: (he says I sounded pissed off, though thru email that’s hard to say – I thought I came off as pretty calm. I didn’t attack him or anything)

    I don’t feel pissed, I feel disappointed and sad that what I’m looking for & what you have been offering me do not match up. I don’t want to continue anymore.

  167.  #167Vi on March 26, 2013 at 8:04 pm

    Libelula if I felt firm I want to be left alone I just wouldn’t bother to respond at all.. 🙂 hehe I feel an urge to judge myself as ‘rude’… but that’s what made me personally feel good and peaceful… sending you beams of support!

  168.  #168Libelula on March 26, 2013 at 8:12 pm

    Vi: I have wondered about doing just that. Maybe he’s just trying to get me to reengage. Maybe I’m better off not responding at all.

  169.  #169Memulo on March 26, 2013 at 8:51 pm

    FW, Zara, Indigo. Starbright, K2012 – thank you so much for responding to me. I did not run into him tonight.

    I feel scared that I still miss him. Maybe even when we were together I didn’t want to admit how much he meant to me. I miss him so much. I don’t know what to do with this love. I guess it will pass eventually. I know I was treated badly. To me it means first that he didn’t love me enough. Everything else is secondary. I know that I deserve to be treated better and everything that goes with it, and that he entitled to have a choice and he made his decision, but the bottom line is that I miss him.

  170.  #170Memulo on March 26, 2013 at 8:51 pm


  171.  #171Indigo on March 26, 2013 at 8:53 pm

    Rebecca 148

    I can assure you, everyone else does NOT glide through life. I feel for you because I can remember having those same thoughts much earlier in my life.

    It was eye-opening and comforting to me that other people have the same insecurities, the same fears, the same uncertainties as I do. It doesn’t seem that way, but it’s true.

  172.  #172MovingMagic on March 26, 2013 at 8:54 pm

    Libelula, does responding feel worth your energy ? Does he already know that you want a relationship with him?

  173.  #173Memulo on March 26, 2013 at 9:01 pm

    I read Zara’s link ‘How to recover from an imaginary relationship’, Well, I did not lean forward AT ALL. Still, got me nowhere. So I guess it was not an accident and he knew what he wanted and what he didn’t want. Too bad then he didn’t want to part with me in a human way.

  174.  #174MovingMagic on March 26, 2013 at 9:13 pm

    Memulo, more often than not the way people treat us has nothing to do with us & everything to do with them. Of course you deserved closure & understanding. He doesn’t know how. I would try to leave it at that. I’ve had to find closure without true “understanding”. I’ve chosen to create a sort of symbolic closure ceremony. It was my way of letting go. Are you open to trying something similar? You can make it up as you go. It can feel creative & fun!

  175.  #175Libelula on March 26, 2013 at 9:21 pm

    MovingMagic: Yes, he knows. I have told him I want a commitment. He either says I’m being unrealistic or that he can’t commit. But he still wants contact. I’m worn out & want this to be done, once & for all.

  176.  #176MovingMagic on March 26, 2013 at 9:28 pm

    Libelula: Then I would choose to not respond…or at least wait a few days, allowing some air & space. No one says you have to respond right now. It’s beautiful really. 🙂

  177.  #177Smile on March 26, 2013 at 11:46 pm

    “A man falls in love with you because he knows he can be himself around you.

    He falls in love with you because he feels SAFE expressing his innermost, private feelings with you.

    He knows that you can handle your feelings. He can sense that. And because he senses that at the most unconscious level, he starts to long for your company, for your touch, for your affection. He may not even know why he feels this way.

    All he knows is that there’s something special about you that he doesn’t feel with any other woman in his life. He wants to take you in his arms and keep you forever.”

    I loved reading this, thanks Rori 🙂 it felt magical 

  178.  #178Starbright on March 26, 2013 at 11:58 pm


    Thanks! It fels good to be seen! Being oneself with openness feels so good!

  179.  #179IamHis on March 27, 2013 at 2:14 am

    What does it mean when a guy keeps asking you what you’re thinking about?

  180.  #180Rebecca on March 27, 2013 at 2:38 am

    Indigo – 171 – thank you!! Sorry to bleat on about this I just feel so frustrated and angry…

  181.  #181Rebecca on March 27, 2013 at 2:40 am


    Also, I have organised a social evening tonight and literally everyone who originally said they were up for it has now cancelled at the last minute!!

    I am so angry. I feel really let down and like I have absolutely NO friends…

    I feel like shouting at them all and saying ‘how would you like it if everyone cancelled on you!!’

    No-one seems to care. In fact I would say they feel slyly smug that I am in the situation… I feel really uncomfortable now knowing that they are not really on my side…

  182.  #182Rebecca on March 27, 2013 at 2:48 am

    Also, if anyone can give me ANY advice it would be greatly appreciated because obviously I am doing ‘something wrong’ here…

  183.  #183Tereana on March 27, 2013 at 2:49 am

    I love Rori’s advice on this post. Spot on. And that’s exactly what I was thinking. When she wrote that she was working two jobs, paying all the rent, buying all the food (and chemical supplements), I realized this guy is just a freeloader. She needs to kick him out, and she has the power to do that, no question. Maybe when she does, he will wake up and get his act together. But right now, he doesn’t have to, because he gets everything he needs, and doesn’t even need to bother with sex, gay or straight. But my way of seeing that is not that he’s gay for not having sex with her. But he’s not turned on (even with an erection) BECAUSE she’s doing all the providing. His masculine duties are not needed in the house, so now this has become the sex as well. The only way she can change this is by asking him to leave, and then HE can decide if he wants her or not. It will put the ball back in his court…

  184.  #184Tereana on March 27, 2013 at 2:58 am

    DancingCD has been sooo cute lately. He sent me a really sweet email that said “good night” in Hebrew. He looked it up, AND wrote it in Hebrew letters. How cute is that????

    And today, he’s been really supportive. I’m still looking for a host family for my cats – and he can’t take them, even though he loves cats. Meanwhile, I got them from where they were staying, in my friend’s garage, and discovered that my older one is sick. Booo! : ( poor girl. I have to take her to the vet tomorrow….

  185.  #185Femininewoman on March 27, 2013 at 3:12 am

    Rebecca I wonder if there is at least one that you feel open towards or you feel might be more open to you than the others? I am thinking that sharing some vulnerability with that person by asking how they experience you could possibly get you some feedback. Sometimes we put up walls unconsciously that people feel blocked by.d

  186.  #186Tereana on March 27, 2013 at 3:15 am

    So, by the way, I feel nervous and vulnerable to post here, but I have to do what I can. I need to raise any money that I can to help get me out of the situation that I’m in. I’m working full-time as an MT, but I’m hardly making any money, because nearly all of my clients are groupon clients, and have prepaid at a severely discounted rate. Consequently, I had to move out of my apartment in January, and that’s when I ended up moving in (VERY briefly) with a man I’d been seeing and flirting with, who I had come to see as possibly the “real deal” (in fact, his nickname here was “RM” for Real Man.) But what he was was a really good con artist. It became clear very quickly that he only wanted to use me and take advantage of me and I needed to get out of there FAST. My friends have offered so much help and support and couches, but I feel so far away from being able to afford to move into my own place again. Now my cat is sick, from the stress of moving them both around so much, and I have to move them AGAIN, probably several times.

    So I created a fundraising page for people to help save my business and get me back to where I need to be – which is NOT on the east coast with my emotionally abusive family. They would be more than happy to take me back. They would love that. They thrive on it when I am sick, weak, or otherwise dependent on them. But funny how they have all the money in the world, if it means flying me home to be with them, but nothing to give me when it comes to my actual needs, in this moment, in the place where I am. No. I can’t accept that kind of “help.” I need to do this WITHOUT them.

    If you can help (for real) or want to know more, go here – http://www.gofundme.com/warmheart

    thank you!!

  187.  #187Femininewoman on March 27, 2013 at 3:15 am

    Iamhis I take it to mean he feels my distance. Sometimes we are up in our heads. I can tell that with men very easily, even while on the phone. Time to review listening at Level 2.

  188.  #188Syrena on March 27, 2013 at 5:20 am


    “@Zara – I have to disagree with you and (gasp) Rori on this one….I think that you have a committed relationship even if you are not engaged. And I think that once that commitment is articulated and agreed upon by both parties, then its a commitment. AND I would not CD at that point. ”

    A commitment to what though? Usually a commitment to I am just seeing you and having sex with only you for now. In the mans case, meaning I am happy to make that commitment for now but am making no future promises that I will want to make a commitment to be with you forever. Why the woman often believes that they are moving forward towards being together forever towards being life partners, investing all her time, love attention and affection, bonding with a man who is just seeing how it goes. Not a good place for a woman to be unless she is happy to accept that it is most likely is going to be fling, could last few months, or a few years. It’s usually the woman then who is ahead in the realtionship time line waiting for him to catch up. And once he has you in this position your degree of difficulty and attractiveness have just gone down in his eyes.

  189.  #189IamHis on March 27, 2013 at 5:36 am

    @187 Feminine Woman – Thanks, Feminine Woman. But neither of us were speaking. and I was trying to just sit there and feel. don’t know how successful I was, but oh well. still practicing…

  190.  #190IamHis on March 27, 2013 at 5:37 am

    when I told him what I was honestly thinking, he just went, “wow.”

  191.  #191nme008 on March 27, 2013 at 5:39 am


    Tonight is Wed so it’s the night I usually have my “girls night” that since I’ve been w M has included him because he will be at pool. I am trying not to lean in, I haven’t called or text since our exchange on Sunday. So here is my dilema….my girlfriend is expecting us to go out tonight…and it’s not that I don’t want to go but I’m actually nervous to go. We haven’t talked since the text fight, I don’t know where his head is at, how he is feeling. And will it look to him that I’m leaning in? And if I decide not to go then my girlfriend will want to know why and I honestly don’t want to involve anyone else in what’s going on cause I DON’T REALLY KNOW WHAT’S GOING ON. lol. Advice???

  192.  #192IamHis on March 27, 2013 at 5:41 am

    I felt angry and tried to leave. but he wanted me to stay. I told him I didn’t have to stay. He said you shouldn’t leave angry. so I sat back down and just tried to feel…

    we just sat there in silence and didn’t speak.

    I felt no need to speak.

    I felt really good just sitting there with him.

    It felt really natural and peaceful.

    I feel weird about it, looking back…

  193.  #193nme008 on March 27, 2013 at 5:42 am

    Well anyone can give advice, ha. I’ve just been talking mostly to Elsie…and Mercedes, Dominique, IamHis, Emerson and Indigo lol….

  194.  #194IamHis on March 27, 2013 at 5:46 am

    I’ve never felt such a range of emotions, just sitting with someone. Nervous, shaky, happy, angry, confused, apathedic, delighted by my surroundings, blessed, cold, scared, curious, and finally sad.

    It felt kind of beautiful…

  195.  #195BeLoved on March 27, 2013 at 5:54 am



    The act itself has no inherent meaning.
    Different people have different motives.
    Some people ask out of curiousity, some people are uncomfortable with silence, some people are manipulators and know how to fluff someone else’s ego, some people ask out of habit, and all of these people probably do the same thing at different times for different reasons with different people, consciously or not.

    Get out of his head and put the focus back on YOU – how do YOU feel?
    I believe this is important for you to ask yourself – What do YOU think it means?

    This could be a wonderful opportunity to break a pattern, it seems like the cusp of where fixation begins.

  196.  #196BeLoved on March 27, 2013 at 5:55 am

    IamHis is way ahead of me

  197.  #197LoveAlways on March 27, 2013 at 5:58 am

    I want to feel more romance. I’ve been DOING romance, but I don’t feel I’ve been receiving it. My fault is giving romance, creating romance, talking romance but not visualizing receiving romance. I’ve seen where HScd has been romantic but I want more. This is a how to you get your needs met moment! I want to feel utterly desired and I feel that visualizing it will allow me to lean back and change my vibe. It has to be about me, not what I want to receive from him. Danger is that I want to receive this from HScd and no one else. I don’t want another man romancing me or pursuing me with desire. But if I change my vibe this is likely to happen. This is the flip side of cding! ALL men pick up your vibe!!! HScd and I are intensely close and I don’t feel like any drama or playing games, so I cd on a very basic level. I don’t reach out to other men but interact with those that reach out to me and those I interact with. Men do feel the presence of other men toward you, and that is the key to cding, keeping your vibe in a receiving mode and not leaning forward. So keeping in a vibe of wanting to be desired and romanced is a bouncing flame near the fuse of any guy who dares to lean in close! I only want to set off one fuse in particular, but this is the siren way I have chosen. So badly feel like staying home but venture out I must!! It will prove to be an interesting siren day!

  198.  #198Femininewoman on March 27, 2013 at 5:59 am

    Syrena I feel in agreement with you.

  199.  #199IamHis on March 27, 2013 at 6:03 am

    I feel arrogant saying this, but he seemed like, mesmorized by me. We seriously just sat there in silence for I don’t know how long.

    It felt so good just to feel everything. It felt good to just be, and to have it feel like time was moving so deliciously slowly.

    My masculine mind is all wondering what it means, but my feminine body feels amazing, and really doesn’t care that much…

  200.  #200Mercedes on March 27, 2013 at 7:21 am

    nme: I would go to girl’s night if I were you. Why change your plans for a man who hasn’t reached out to you? You should do what you normally do and be with your friends. It’s not leaning forward, it’s doing what you do every Wednesday.

    ” I don’t know where his head is at, how he is feeling.”

    You don’t really need to know any of that. That’s HIS stuff and not really something you need to take responsibility for.

    Much Love,

  201.  #201Femininewoman on March 27, 2013 at 7:26 am

    Are you ready to learn the technique? Okay then, here we go, but first let me warn you that the simplicity of the methods can be deceiving. There is a synergistic effect when the three factors below are combined. None of these factors seem all that amazing by themselves, but together they yield an amazing result.

    1. Release all intentions. Open your mind to experience whatever thoughts naturally arise in your mind in response to the words of the other person you are communicating with.

    2. Become fully interested in the present moment as it unfolds. Release any thoughts about the past or the future so you can bring your mind back to rest on the unfolding experience of communicating right now.

    3. Speak whatever thoughts come up naturally. Converse as if there was no point to the conversation other than the joy of conversation itself.

    I want to emphasize that this method requires that you fully appreciate and enjoy the conversation as an experience of shared oneness with another human being. It’s the relaxation and the joy that emanates from this non-manipulative form of communication that automatically draws the other person to the same wavelength, the same positive experience.

    This method has profound effects. It lowers stress, lowers defensiveness, and increases feelings of intimacy. The method draws much of its strength from the experience it generates-one of shared appreciation of the present moment.

    Cultivating the qualities that come with present moment awareness can lead to amazing advantages in attracting an ideal partner.

    James Bauer

  202.  #202Mercedes on March 27, 2013 at 7:31 am

    FW: 201 – I need to practice more of that. I’m going to read it about 100 times today to remind myself. Thank you.

    Much Love,

  203.  #203nme008 on March 27, 2013 at 7:42 am

    Thanks, I THINK I will go….did you happen to see my big mess up I had on Sunday w M? 🙁 That’s the source of my being uncomfortable. But yeah, holding my head up and gonna do my thing. Althought I know its gonna be 20 questions w my friend tonight cause she will assume M will be hanging w me. And he might, but if not she’s gonna start in on it…..

  204.  #204Mercedes on March 27, 2013 at 7:49 am

    nme: Yes. I saw it. You won’t know until you see him how that will go so no need to worry in advance about it. With your friend, I think you have a few options. You could tell her things might be uncomfortable with M and you could tell her why. You could tell her things might be uncomfortable and you could ask her to respect your privacy and give it some time until you are ready to talk about it. You could say nothing to her and stress and hope that it all turns out well and she never knows a things. You could decide you are going to say nothing, release the stress and handle whatever happens in the moment.

    Only you can decide. If it were me, I’d prepare her a little to minimize the risk of things getting really awkward in the moment.

    After that, just let it all go and have a great time. M will handle his emotions all by himself. Your friend will do what she does with or without your life being involved in it and YOU will be who you are regardless of them both. So be a happy you and have fun. Life is too short to stress over a little text argument. 🙂

    Much Love,

  205.  #205nme008 on March 27, 2013 at 7:58 am

    Thank you. 🙂 Between you and Elsie I’m feeling pretty strong and sure if myself. Even if I do break down and cry still lol, but I’m a very emotional person sooo I’ll take what I can get. IRS so weird that I cry so much cause I’ve been referred to as such a hard ass too….how can I be both mush and hard? Lol.

  206.  #206Elsie on March 27, 2013 at 8:10 am

    OK I”m in meetings off and on all day so I’ll do this piecemeal – and NME I promise I’llw rite this afternoon to you!

    OK first I want to say this to Syriana:

    You said……A commitment to what though? Usually a commitment to I am just seeing you and having sex with only you for now. In the mans case, meaning I am happy to make that commitment for now but am making no future promises that I will want to make a commitment to be with you forever.

    I am here to tell you that a man (or woman) can also promise marriage. Be engaged….heck be MARRIED for all that matters, and that doesnt mean commitment. People cheat. People lie. People CHANGE their minds later on.

    All you ahve to know is whether or not you trust the person in front of you that they are with you at this moment. And that commitment is to be with you now, and in the future – but that can always change….trust me I know – EVEN if you are ALREADY married and vows were made.

    Sorry but its a bit of a touchy subject for me to think that once you get engaged or married something magically makes everything different.

  207.  #207nme008 on March 27, 2013 at 8:12 am

    Having been married I completely agree with Elsie here.

  208.  #208Linda on March 27, 2013 at 8:29 am

    How would you feel about having your girls night someplace else? It might be more comfortable plus he might miss your not being there

  209.  #209nme008 on March 27, 2013 at 8:37 am

    I’ve concidered that. I have such mixed feelings about this. On one hand I feel like, this is the place I’ve picked for the last 7 months to have my Wed nights. It’s close to my house and I’m comfortable (usually lol) there. I don’t want a man to “chase” me out, or move because of a man. BUT I really do want to change MYSELF and see what happens w M, so then I think….maybe not going is better. Although I’m not going for him, he might perceive it that way. I don’t honestly have the right answer …guess that’s why I’m asking all if your opinion haha.

  210.  #210Mercedes on March 27, 2013 at 8:46 am

    nme: In my opinion, if you change your plans (or location) because of this situation, he will believe you are avoiding him and that most likely won’t feel good. I don’t see how he could feel comfortable reaching out to you if you show him you don’t want to see or talk to him by avoiding him and going to a different place. Right now, he’s probably very certain he is going to see you tonight and most likely wants to take that opportunity to talk to you. To him, it won’t feel like he’s reaching out so much but it will still allow him to be in control of the situation some. I think if you avoid him, between that and the not contacting him, you will be sending the message that you are not interested in communicating about this.

    Others: On commitment. J and I have a lifelong commitment without an official legal marriage and that’s our intent. We don’t know if we will ever get married, but at the moment, neither of us are feeling the need or desire. It does not make us any less committed than anyone else we know.

    Much Love,

  211.  #211Linda G on March 27, 2013 at 8:56 am

    I guess if you can go without obsessing about his reaction, etc, it can work.
    I for one, probably couldn’t handle it.l

  212.  #212nme008 on March 27, 2013 at 9:09 am

    A little confused…is Linda and Linda G the same person?

  213.  #213Starbright on March 27, 2013 at 9:13 am


    You asked for some thoughts about how several people cancelled on your event. First of all that sounds really tough and want to send you hugs!!!

    I have read several of your posts over time and what I sense is a similar feeling in many of them of not belonging that keeps showing up.

    The first thing that comes to me is taking a look at the work of Byron Katie. She has you ask four questions to whatever situation and can then see it In a completely different way. I highly suggest using the worksheet that walks you through the process and is downloadable. Just google those and should easily find them. Watching YouTube videos of her working with people in the work is also helpful.

  214.  #214Syrena on March 27, 2013 at 9:18 am

    Zara 130 from the link

    “There’s only one thing happening. You are being driven by some kind of subconscious traumatic response that is trying to punish you and the only question and to get into a really basic spiritual way of looking at this.

    When you’re in a situation that is making you unhappy, the only place to go is to ask yourself – “Where am I not forgiving myself?”

    Now, I know that sounds weird, but we get ourselves into situations, believe it or not, because we choose them, because we want them on some deep subconscious body level that we don’t know of. I mean it sounds ridiculous. Of course I want love. Why would I choose not love, but there’s something in us that chooses not love.

    “It comes from our background. The teachers that were terrible to us. Anything that happened and going back and pulling that old stuff up actually makes things worse. That old fashioned therapy is pretty much disproven now. Going back there and digging up the crap makes you worse.

    What has to happen is you have to move forward and somehow allow yourself to be triggered so badly that you shift. That you are actually willing to make a change rather than just sit in the normal kind of misery that a lot of us just get hanging in.”

    “Anything that happened and going back and pulling that old stuff up actually makes things worse. That old fashioned therapy is pretty much disproven now. Going back there and digging up the crap makes you worse.”

    This bit struck a cored and I want to explore and ask what is meant here.

    As old trauma does and has come up for me since doing the tools. So if it comes up to the surface and you are no longer stuffing it down, ignoring it, minimizing it, HOW do you get to the point to not going back there? As by in coming to the surface you have by effect gone back there. And evertime I acknowledge or talk about it, it’s like I go back there over and over again and relive it. HELP! I don’t know what to do to stop this happening. What was the old fashioned therapy? What is considered to work better today. I want to move forward with this.

  215.  #215IamHis on March 27, 2013 at 9:36 am

    i feel really proud of myself and I feel pouty that I’m not getting more attention. What I did feels huge to me.


    I feel embarrassed for being so self-absorbed.

    but as someone who used to majorly neglect herself, is that such a bad thing?

    I’m going to go with “no” here.

  216.  #216nme008 on March 27, 2013 at 9:44 am


    I am not quite sure if he expects to see me. Although it’s my wed night place I haven’t been going out every week this past month….but when I do it is here, and I was there last week. So you may be right.

    But also as I said he can’t drive his car when he drinks so on pool nights his best friend picks him up and takes him home. So if pool ends early he won’t be there when I get there. A lot of if’s, lol.

    You know what? If my girlfriend wants to go, I’ll go. If he is there, I’ll say hi and smile. If he talks to me, he talks to me….if not…I’ll deal with it in the moment.

    And I’m sure later emotions will be swirling inside of me but I’m not gonna let my “crazy” show. So to speak haha.

    Quick question: Do you think a “place” can be toxic on a relationship? Because of things that have happened there or people that are there?

  217.  #217nme008 on March 27, 2013 at 9:47 am

    What did you do? Are you looking for attention from someone in your life over this or on the blog? I looked back to see if I missed something you were talking about lol.

  218.  #218Starbright on March 27, 2013 at 9:53 am


    I know you didn’t ask me, however you are asking and do going to offer my thoughts. The old fashioned therapy would basically be the idea of soending weeks, months if not years going through old history and experiences to figure out things so you could fix where you are today.

    There are many healing modalities today that can get you moving in action right away. First off since we are on rori’s site, there is coaching especially one on one if possible. Rori’s programs are all great.

    EFT -emotional freedom technique also known as tapping can be pretty incredible. There are many YouTube videos giving you easy instruction and there are also people you can work with. It works with healing feelings from past events stuck in our bodies and utilizes meridian points that acupuncturists use without the needles.

    And there is.NLP – neuron linguistic programming and hypnotherapy. These work to release hidden negative lfeelings fairly quickly. All three modalities work with negative feelings and patterns stuck in the subconscious There are many other modalities and many people who can help you with them. I hope this helps!

  219.  #219IamHis on March 27, 2013 at 9:53 am

    I don’t know, I felt my feelings, spoke my feelings, didn’t try to control the outcome.

    and maybe both? and more? attention from someone in my life and in this blog and anywhere I can get it.

    I don’t know.

    I feel embarrassed and kind of panicky for some reason…

  220.  #220Dominique on March 27, 2013 at 9:56 am

    Syrena – 188 – I feel sad that you see men in this way. yes this exists, in men and women for that matter. Yet there are many men and women too who do not look at not being married as a for now relationship until maybe something better shows up.

    K and I were in for life and only got married very recently because of how the laws are structured which became increasingly an interference.

    If this weren’t so, we probably would not have married, and our commitment, our loyalty to each other would be just as profound. I feel no difference from before.

    And I am not alone here. I know of maybe couples who are not married, yet they are clearly together for life, no question.

    Marriage can be the be all end all for some, yet for others, it isn’t, the love and deep connection is.


  221.  #221nme008 on March 27, 2013 at 9:58 am

    I wish I could be as in tune with my feelings as it seems you are. I never know what I’m really feeling in the moment and therefore miss opportunities to use feeling messages, at least the right way. Or most effective way.

    Was the guy your referring to Jack? Is that the right name?

  222.  #222Indigo on March 27, 2013 at 9:59 am


    I honestly do feel for you. If you are doing anything “wrong” I would say you are giving thoughts, energy, space in your life, to ideas and people, and certainly what you think *they think*, than they deserve.

    It is ok to fully love and accept yourself *just* the way you are. It is ok to choose very carefully the people you allow into your life, and to strive for kindness towards, yet *not being too bothered by* everyone else.

    I wonder, are you driving yourself crazy with the negative thoughts you think other people are thinking? Let it go. People are thoughtless, self-involved, but rarely malicious. Be easier, strive for a lightness in your thoughts.

    hugs to you

  223.  #223Dominique on March 27, 2013 at 10:00 am

    nme – 191 – It’s not your up to you to try to get into his head. He’s going to think what he thinks and feel what he feels. There’s nothing you can do about this.

    Yet know this – most men DO NOT hold onto things like most women do.

    If you want to go out, go. Try not to worry about whether he will or will not be there or will or will not act strangely.

    If you go, and he’s there, you can still be open and warm, in receiving mode.


  224.  #224Linda G on March 27, 2013 at 10:04 am

    Quick question: Do you think a “place” can be toxic on a relationship? Because of things that have happened there or people that are there?

    My feeling is a place can be toxic if it triggers you to go back to old or yucky stuff.
    I have been known to get rid of clothes (usually selling it on ebay) if it triggered some unpleasant event or relationship.

    But later, I missed my dress, etc. i have an emotional attachment to clothes, as you see.

    If you can go back to the place and work through your feelings, the triggers will dissolve. A much healthier state to be in.

  225.  #225Femininewoman on March 27, 2013 at 10:05 am

    Iamhis I am wondering if you could go under the panic and embarassment to see if there is more there?

  226.  #226nme008 on March 27, 2013 at 10:08 am

    Sooo little story for you all….not sure what to do with it now haha..

    I had gone out one night w a bunch a friends to a huge bar/club/mall (hard to explain, it’s Xfinity Live if anyone is from my area) and had a great time. Kept getting looks from a guy and was totally feeling him (he worked there, head of security, we’ll call him XM) we talked a little and flirted and he said we’d find eachother later. Well as embaressing as this is (and it really was) I got really wasted, like sick wasted. Ended up getting flagged by XM and we all had to leave. haha….horrible!!! Anyway maybe a month or so later I went there again w a group of friend and saw XM again! He was really happy and remembered me, asked for my number and was texting me the next day. He asked me out and it was all yay, good stuff. Well the day of our date he canceled. Said something really important came up. I was disapointed and went out to my usual Wed night….that is the night I ended up hooking up w M! Soooo the next time XM reached out I didn’t respond. OK so fast forward to January when M and I broke up for that one weekend, I went to Xfinity and saw XM again. He told me I looked amazing and we talked breifly. The next day he text and said although it wasn’t super serious he was talking to someone and felt he should see what happens there before talking to me again. I told him I respected that and just broke up with my bf and need time too since I really cared about M still. So we left it at if things didn’t work for him and that girl and I was single we’d see what happens then. Well 2 weeks ago he text me…M and I are together so I didn’t respond. ….HE JUST TEXT ME AGAIN NOW. Is the world trying to tell me something!!!

  227.  #227Femininewoman on March 27, 2013 at 10:09 am

    Linda G – In my mind I am hearing Rori’s voice on Reconnect Your Relationship saying “you want to be triggered”.

    I feel unsure that a place can be toxic except a place with asbestos or some substance that is toxic to our flesh.

  228.  #228Indigo on March 27, 2013 at 10:11 am


    Mercedes has given some great advice here!

    I think if he is there, it’s a great opportunity to practice feeling what you are feeling in the moment. The pounding heart, the nervousness, the uncertainty as to how it’s going to turn out. I would just go, and feel all of that, and let him do what he does.

    I don’t know, if it were me, I would think he is essentially the one who has created this space, and I wouldn’t be in any way a different person on account of that! I have to say, if you don’t mind me saying, I would feel very funny indeed not having seen my boyfriend for 2 weeks plus.

    hugs to you! x

  229.  #229IamHis on March 27, 2013 at 10:13 am

    @225 Feminine woman – I think I just feel scared. Really scared. I feel alone and unsure and like I’m questioning my sanity. I hate that feeling. 🙁

  230.  #230ALA on March 27, 2013 at 10:14 am

    “Do you think a “place” can be toxic on a relationship?”

    In my case yes, it was very toxic.

    My heart feels achy. I know a guy can feel flattered by a woman’s constant attention. But why would he not feel repelled by a woman that’s controlling the relationship and him. I feel D’s new thing is doomed because of these reasons and also she’s more into him than he is for her. And what does all this say about me. What’s the message from all this heartache and trauma? I had a dream about him when we first got together. He was leaning down over me and I couldn’t get away. I thought he was going to kill me. I feel kinda numb now. Not sure if it’s the breakup shock or if a part of me really did die. Wish I listened to my intuition and had the courage to leave before all this damage to my core being. That’s the only lesson I’m getting right now.

  231.  #231Femininewoman on March 27, 2013 at 10:15 am

    Well the day of our date he canceled. Said something really important came up – this is a huge red flag for me.

    So we left it at if things didn’t work for him and that girl and I was single we’d see what happens then – hhhmmm emmm I wonder how this looks to a woman with high self esteem who puts her heart first?

  232.  #232nme008 on March 27, 2013 at 10:15 am


    Thank you! I am for sure going outside of my comfort zone by going there not knowing what to expect. But I guess thats where having no expectations comes in right? lol. I’m sure I’ll post tomorrow as to what happens. I’m gonna focus all my energy on me today and make sure I’m in really good place tonight. No negative feelings, all warm and receiving!

  233.  #233IamHis on March 27, 2013 at 10:15 am

    I always felt like this growing up. wondering if I could trust my perceptions, trust my instincts, trust myself.

    sometimes I feel like the entire world is lying to me and/or trying to pull me down…


  234.  #234IamHis on March 27, 2013 at 10:19 am

    I think I feel scared too, of realizing my own power and living up to my true potential, and how much people might hate me for it.

    sometimes I feel like people hate me for my honesty, hate me for my bravery, hate me for my beauty.

    and it’s not that I think that I’m all that and a bag of chips. I certainly don’t. I am COMPLETELY aware of my multitude of flaws.

    but people just seem to want to zero in on those, and undermine my gifts, undermine my wonderfulness, undermine me, and it makes me feel FURIOUS.

    I wonder who I really mean by “people”

    I feel teary…

  235.  #235nme008 on March 27, 2013 at 10:21 am

    FW_231_ I’m agree, it was a huge red flag. That’s why I didn’t even respond when he reached out again. Yes I was w M but I typically would have responded regaurdless to tell him my situation had changed. However I didn’t think he deserved it.

    But the second part of your post? I don’t get. Expand a little there? Are you saying I have low self esteem? I’m not sure. As to my heart? It’s not involved, I hardley know him. As of now it’s just attraction.

  236.  #236Elsie on March 27, 2013 at 10:22 am

    @Mercedes – I thought of you when they were talking about realtionships and marriage – and how you are committed, and also @Dominique – I thought of you too! 🙂

    Now, I’m the marrying kind….haha….but I can see how that doesnt last either in my situation, but I just dont want to live with someone – hey thats me, and I think if it works for others great. 🙂

    NME – I think you should TOTALLY go to this place and see him. He will then see that you have tucked the crazy back in (as I say) and that you are calm cool, and collected. You are warm and open and you can say hi and be nice. Its a great opportunity to be normal and see him and have him see that you arent all crazy and mad etc. I say go…and practice the tools 🙂

    Thats my two cents. 🙂

  237.  #237Femininewoman on March 27, 2013 at 10:24 am

    Iamhis – those aren’t feelings they are thoughts. You are all that an a bag of chips. Your words remind me of the Marianne Williamson quote

    “Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, ‘Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous?’ Actually, who are you not to be? You are a child of God. Your playing small does not serve the world. There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won’t feel insecure around you. We are all meant to shine, as children do. We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us. It’s not just in some of us; it’s in everyone. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others.”

    Remember mistakes are the process of life. People zero in on the negative because of how their brains are wired but making yourself small is not serving anyone.

  238.  #238Femininewoman on March 27, 2013 at 10:28 am

    Elsie your second set of comments about going to that place is suggestive of strategizing to me. Also my humble opinion is nme seems to suggest that when she goes out she drinks. When drinks get involved sometimes we do things and be in a way that normally we aren’t.

  239.  #239nme008 on March 27, 2013 at 10:29 am

    THANK YOU!!! lol. I’ve seen him 2 times, once was last Wed and it was brief, he was playing pool so it was really only a few minutes of chatting and a kiss. Then Sat when he was working and you all know about that night. Ugg.

    But tonight is MINE!!! What happens happens. I need to stop stressing. I’m feeling good.

  240.  #240ALA on March 27, 2013 at 10:30 am

    THIS bears repeating:

    “Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, ‘Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous?’ Actually, who are you not to be? You are a child of God. Your playing small does not serve the world. There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won’t feel insecure around you. We are all meant to shine, as children do. We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us. It’s not just in some of us; it’s in everyone. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others.”

    “Remember mistakes are the process of life. People zero in on the negative because of how their brains are wired but making yourself small is not serving anyone.”

    Never feeling loved enough or for who I am has been a common theme for my relationships. It’s because I make myself small. I want to learn to speak up for myself more.

  241.  #241Femininewoman on March 27, 2013 at 10:33 am

    nme I am not saying anything about you. I am just musing, thinking about Rori in Reconnect talking about a woman with high self esteem. She asks her clients to just think for a moment if they could see such a woman reaching out to a man and saying certain things to him. As such I am wondering if such a woman would make a deal with a man who has a woman. A deal that basically suggests to him she could possibly be a backup option for him if things don’t work out. I am wondering if I am an irresistible woman out living my life if I could plant in his hand that maybe by the time he is ready there will still be no man attracted to me. Just wondering what I would do given the same circumstances……..

  242.  #242Femininewoman on March 27, 2013 at 10:36 am


    Do you believe you are worthy? Do you know what your beliefs around love are?

  243.  #243Memulo on March 27, 2013 at 10:38 am

    A question: a guy is making plans with me for the 1st date. We agreed on the place and day, and then he emails with the final setup and includes his phone number, saying I can respond by email or text/call him. Is it axgood move to email back and say thank you for the email, will feel easier to coordinate on the spot, or do I need to disclose my number as well?

  244.  #244IamHis on March 27, 2013 at 10:38 am

    “You are all that an a bag of chips.” Thanks, FW. 🙂

  245.  #245nme008 on March 27, 2013 at 10:39 am

    I do drink when I go out, it’s a bar. I do not however get drunk unless I feel comfortable doing so and have a designated driver. Tonight would not be a night I felt comfortable letting loose that much and getting drunk.

  246.  #246Femininewoman on March 27, 2013 at 10:42 am

    Most men I know, when he is working, he is focussed on working. Going there expecting him to spend enough time to recognize something, especially if he is working, is setting oneself up for disappointment is my opinion. A man creates space in a relationship because the woman won’t do it is what I believe. When the man creates space, I believe it is best to allow him the space. It is during the space that he ends up thinking about the woman and possibly falling in love. Showing up unannounced can be a recipe for disaster. I don’t believe the man is sitting around thinking “O this is Wednesday when she normally shows up”. If he does not invite you I don’t believe he is mentally or emotionally prepared to deal with you. Just my humble opinion.

  247.  #247Femininewoman on March 27, 2013 at 10:44 am

    Memulo are you suggesting you would be going out with someone with whom you have not spoken to on the phone?

  248.  #248nme008 on March 27, 2013 at 10:45 am


    THank you for explaining your thoughts. Funny how different people view things differently. To me I respected that even though he was really attracted to me he didn’t continue to talk to me and set up a date when he was talking to another woman. And I honestly had no right doing that either, M and I had broken up the night before, I was raw. It would have been a rebound. And I didn’t want that. The way we left it was he was going to see what happened with the woman he was with and I was going to see what happened w M and in the end if we ended up single at the same time we’d see what happened. I felt really good about our last exchange. It felt respectful and honest, not at all as a back up plan.

  249.  #249nme008 on March 27, 2013 at 10:47 am

    I agree with what you said. I am NOT going there for him BUT it is a good opportunity to show the crazy is in check lol.

  250.  #250Femininewoman on March 27, 2013 at 10:48 am

    nme I can’t claim to know how attraction works for every man but I wonder if a man claims he is really attracted to me while really attracted enough to be sleeping with another woman, I wonder if it is a pattern he is playing out and will play the same pattern out with me as well?

  251.  #251Femininewoman on March 27, 2013 at 10:50 am

    to show the crazy is in check – This is loaded with doing not “being”. I imagine that it will leak out in the vibe and the man might end up wondering “why is she trying so hard”.

  252.  #252Femininewoman on March 27, 2013 at 10:51 am

    “to show the crazy is in check” – I wonder what Dominique, Daria, and Rori would say about this comment.

  253.  #253Femininewoman on March 27, 2013 at 10:56 am

    Memulo a person’s voice can say a lot about them. There are certain tones and depths that I find attractive. Though this might sound petty, I find high pitched, or monotone really boring and grating on my nerve. I have never agreed to go on a date with a man that I haven’t spoken. After email I will put my number out there. Sometimes the guy calls once and never call again. I am not afraid of giving someone my number.

  254.  #254ALA on March 27, 2013 at 11:12 am

    242 – FW, not at this time. Something to contemplate today while working. Thx. xoxo

  255.  #255nme008 on March 27, 2013 at 11:12 am


    It’s just dating. Not everyone takes the CD road. If he is seeing someone he should see it through, that could be the girl for him. When you find you “one” it doesn’t mean you don’t find others attractive. And if he was dating me I’d appreciate him showing me the same respect.

  256.  #256nme008 on March 27, 2013 at 11:15 am


    As for tonight. M is not working. He works on Sat nights. He is on a pool league and they play at this bar on Wed nights. It’s how we met. I go there with my girlfriends and he plays pool. Even when things were great we wouldn’t spend the whole night together. He did his pool thing and I hung with my friends. When he was done around 10:30 he’d come over and see me and even then he’d hang w his friends and me. It’s not some place he has to invite me to. We didn’t go together there.

  257.  #257nme008 on March 27, 2013 at 11:17 am

    And “crazy in check” is more a saying at least for me. It means even when my emotions are swamping me and I’m unsure about them and want to pull him in cause I feel distance I don’t. I breath and relax and try and stay in the moment…and THAT is BEING. For me.

  258.  #258Linda on March 27, 2013 at 11:22 am


    Things with FavoriteCD are delightfully fantastic. We seems to be what each has been looking for. Last week end – I told him that I was so glad that I had met him… he replied… ” I have been looking for you for 30 years” !

    One of the things that I have put into practice with this relationship is whenever he intiates affection. I stop whatever I am doing everytime and melt into it. He commented that one of his favorite things about me is that he can feel how I feel about him when he wraps his arms around me. Yum…

    That tool really works and speaks loudly. I will post more later. Things are just plain old good right now.!

    Whoo HOO

  259.  #259Linda G on March 27, 2013 at 11:22 am

    Feminine woman

    I feel unsure that a place can be toxic except a place with asbestos or some substance that is toxic to our flesh.

    Toxic in that it triggers you.
    Of course much of our environment is actually toxic, but I am speaking metaphorically/Rori toxic

  260.  #260Memulo on March 27, 2013 at 11:27 am

    FW, yes, going to a date without speaking on the phone. Voice is important, I agree, but not a deal breaker for me. We exchanged several emails.

  261.  #261Linda G on March 27, 2013 at 11:29 am

    “So we left it at if things didn’t work for him and that girl and I was single we’d see what happens then – hhhmmm emmm I wonder how this looks to a woman with high self esteem who puts her heart first?”

    This would bother me. I don’t like feeling like a back up plan. However I wouldn’t even comment and if he calls you down the line and you are free/not in a committed relationship, I would accept and not even bring it up. His dating someone se has nothing to do with you.

    This is how I see it, anyway

  262.  #262nme008 on March 27, 2013 at 11:30 am

    Linda G_
    LOL, I’m pretty sure that was understood. As for why I asked that? Well I’m gonna call the bar we met at the Inn. We met at the Inn, but I also met R at the Inn and R & M are friends (I didn’t know till after I was with M) R is not a huge fan of me. Also this is where the one incident happend that M and I broke up over the one time. M works here on occasion, next month is his last month, and has played pool there for 10 yrs. When I’m there and he is not it’s all eyes on me and EVERYTHING gets told to him. I don’t do anything wrong just saying it may be a bad place for us. I don’t know….just musing out load and wondering.

  263.  #263nme008 on March 27, 2013 at 11:35 am

    Linda G_261_

    It didn’t bother me at all. At that time I was more interested in seeing what would happen with M then XM anyway. It worked for me. Honestly I wished him the best, if that was his person why would I ever want to come in between it anyway. The problem now is he is contacting me so it would seem he is not with whoever he was dating. But I’m at this weird point with M. For me it would be cheating on M to go out with XM because I am committed to him. And even texting him back seems wrong cause I wouldn’t want M to do that in my shoes. Untill things are clear with M I’m staying faithful. That’s my choice here.

  264.  #264Linda G on March 27, 2013 at 11:54 am

    I was “Linda” for a bit then I added the “G” when another Linda, whom everybody already knew posted

  265.  #265Linda G on March 27, 2013 at 11:57 am

    Nme; it is my feeling we need to go to places we feel comfortable in, not where we feel spied on and self conscious

  266.  #266Femininewoman on March 27, 2013 at 12:00 pm

    Memulo it might not necessarily be a dealbreaker but could give you a clue of who the person is and if you might feel attracted to the person. The topic he chooses and how he responds to your feeling messages can tell you something about him and if you actually want to go out with him. I would encourage you to talk to people before agreeing to meet. It kinda sets the stage. Someone who is afraid of intimacy could hide behind emails, also communition could be kept at that level if the other person doesn’t think you are important enough. I dunno I would let him know it would feel good to hear his voice before meeting. He is open enough to give you his number. It could also be an opportunity to share that you feel comfortable with the man leading the communication. When I read your initial comment it struck me that responding to him would be “giving back”. Just odd that you have not spoken. I tend to speak for a little while before agreeing to meet.

  267.  #267Veronica on March 27, 2013 at 12:21 pm

    nme008 – I wish you luck and strength for tonight. I hope you enjoy yourself and your friends and all the other stuff can take care of itself.
    Linda 258 – yay
    Dominique and Mercedes – In Rori’s Breakup and Divorce articles there is the following question that is meant to shift how we understand a breakup situation:
    – Can I imagine a Happy Ever After just by how it feels and not at all how it ‘looks’?
    It’s been a struggle to imagine this since I’m so visual (ha ha) but also because it’s a new question for me (major growth potential possible here). I imagine I would feel free and that my body would be sooooo relaxed. I suspect that there would be more of me. I would feel excited that there’s almost limitless exploration of the relationship and of each other. But that’s all thinking and hypothesizing. I’m not feeling any feelings around it. Would you mind telling me how it feels for you so that I can get more of a grasp on how I would feel?

    Man I really need to work on getting excited about my life. I’ve been trying to imagine these scenarios and trying to imagine my enthusiastic self being all passionate about my life so I can feel what that would feel like. There is such a huge difference. Lots to get into for the next couple of days.

  268.  #268CurvySiren10 on March 27, 2013 at 12:37 pm

    femininewoman 253~ are you saying you’d literally not give a guy a chance based solely on the tone of his voice?

  269.  #269Mercedes on March 27, 2013 at 12:48 pm

    Veronica: I don’t think my relationship feels any different than it would if we were married. It doesn’t “feel” anything in particular to be this way I don’t think.

    I do feel very, very grateful that he and I are on the same page with marriage though. I’m sooooo happy we agree on that. I’ve had friends who wanted so much to get married and their men weren’t ready and there ended up being a lot of pressure put on the guys, etc. I’m glad J and I don’t have to deal with that.

    I guess what I’m saying is we are no different than a married couple. We have a strong commitment that feels good to us and we don’t feel a need to change anything about that. My guess is that it feels exactly the way it would feel if we did get married. I can’t imagine a marriage changing anything about how we feel at all.

    To me, this stuff you wrote has nothing to do with marriage or the lack of marriage. It sounds like just a fantastic relationship and isn’t dependent on marriage at all: “I imagine I would feel free and that my body would be sooooo relaxed. I suspect that there would be more of me. I would feel excited that there’s almost limitless exploration of the relationship and of each other.”

    Much Love,

  270.  #270Shar Lean Way Back on March 27, 2013 at 12:53 pm

    Linda, 258

    Thanks for the update 🙂 this sounds great !

  271.  #271Femininewoman on March 27, 2013 at 12:54 pm

    Oh no CurvySiren. Is that what it sounds like?

  272.  #272Femininewoman on March 27, 2013 at 12:59 pm

    To be honest though I have spoken to one guy who sounded like he was on his deathbed. His profile picture didn’t look quite good so I might have already been biased. Yet with the two things together I did not feel like meeting him. I was happy he did not call back.

  273.  #273ALA on March 27, 2013 at 1:02 pm

    I talked w/ Zen on the phone. Didn’t feel a big attraction to his voice. Although it helps me understand their written words better after talking with them. Not sure if I would meet w/ someone without talking first. Just to get a better idea who they are as a person. I do get more judgmental about little things after talking. Getting more discernment I should be paying attention to… with practice!

  274.  #274Femininewoman on March 27, 2013 at 1:05 pm

    I also remember telling on guy to talk like a man. He was using a bi of a high pitched tone. We remained friends and it is a running joke between us. It was with him that I clearly identified that I feel deeply turned on by a masculine deep voice. That to me is sexy and attractive. My singingcd has one and I find it extremely easy to appreciate and complement.

  275.  #275Libelula on March 27, 2013 at 1:06 pm

    This is how I used to handle dealing with matches. I would call they guy, but restrict my number. That way, I kept myself feeling safe and I got to know what they sounded like & a sense of whether we’d still get along or not. I felt uneasy about giving my phone number out until I knew the guy better. Most guys were understanding about this. The guys who weren’t – well, it was a good, yellow flag!

  276.  #276Turquoise on March 27, 2013 at 1:22 pm

    Hi Sirens,

    Not much new to report on my mom. They THINK they got the seizures under control, but she’s doing some twitching, so more tests needed. But, if she is having them, much less than they were. They took her off sedation yesterday, but not much purposeful movement yet. She was on a huge dose of it, so hoping that is delaying her waking up, but it feels extremely overwhelming and scary to see her like this. The doctors have prepared us that she may not recover. It’s such a hard thing to go through.

    Sweetheart is trying his best to be supportive. I’m so stressed out though, some of it is getting on my nerves. I am just tired and worn out.. it’s not really him. I also tend to retreat and need more time alone or with just my girls when I’m upset….. so I explained that to him. I just need him to back off sometimes. He’ll call me three times in a row if I don’t respond to a text, or I’ll have to repeat myself because he either forgets or doesn’t pay attention…. just frustrating. I’m taking care of me though, taking space, contacting him when I can or want to talk, sharing how I feel, and I know his intentions are good, he just doesn’t know what to say. My family is all really bonding together in this though, and that feels good. My ex-husband and his family are also being supportive, which I appreciate. Mr. Conversation has been in contact, asking about my mom, offering support and help. I haven’t taken him up on it, but does feel good to hear. I heard from Mike2 also, wanting to help… which, seems odd to me since he’s now married and we only dated a few months, about 2 years ago.. Not one word from Tom though, and it’s all over my facebook page. That was an eye opener. I didn’t expect that, especially since his mom is in an assisted living home.

    Oh well, I’m hanging in, trying to remain hopeful and get through each day as it comes.

  277.  #277Memulo on March 27, 2013 at 1:25 pm

    FW, did you think that letting a man lead communication sometimes can be accepting his desire to meet before talking on the phone?
    If I wasn’t sure I wanted to meet him based on his profile and emails, I wouldn’t have;)

    So you’re suggesting not to ‘give back’, I e not to give him my number in my reply? To go with my initial intention to thank him for the # and confirm the date?

  278.  #278LoveAlways on March 27, 2013 at 1:25 pm

    NVs are buzzing all around me like the flying monkeys in wizard of oz! AHHHHHHHHHH

  279.  #279Memulo on March 27, 2013 at 1:28 pm

    LoveAlways, tell me about it;) the same as my memories of dumbcd.

  280.  #280LoveAlways on March 27, 2013 at 1:29 pm

    Memulo – totally feel you on this one! I’m swatting at them, but they won’t go away LOL

  281.  #281Memulo on March 27, 2013 at 1:31 pm

    I feel so puzzled with all this passiveness. I feel it was part of the reason dumbcd lost his interest. Because different men want different things! When I am passive I attract men who want to control me.

  282.  #282Memulo on March 27, 2013 at 1:40 pm

    LoveAlways I don’t know what caused your NVs but I believe in gut feelings. What if you try something different this time? Take a break from FM’s;) ok just a ‘crazy’ thought lol

  283.  #283LoveAlways on March 27, 2013 at 1:43 pm

    Memulo – I feel the same way about passiveness. Rather than passive, I receive from men. I do what I want, say what I feel (after processing it) but I receive. It’s not passive actually. Do how you feel. It has to be about you. If you feel like grabbing him and kissing him, and you really feel that way, then do it. My aggressive nature is deep rooted, so balancing that with feminine energy has taken some strategy on my part 🙂

  284.  #284LoveAlways on March 27, 2013 at 1:47 pm

    Okay, I’ll tell you about my NVs – I could do well to share it. It’s silly, really, but bothering the heck out me: HScd and I were in bed and I suggested we do something in particular that he likes that I had been hesitant to do before. He made a comment that suggested that he did that with other people and each person is different. WHAT?????? so then later I said I thought about what you said and I’ve decided I no longer desire to do that with you any more. Yes, my aggressive nature got the best of me. So today we started to have an issue and he said he would call back but didn’t, so these nasty NVs are buzzing all around me, reminding of me of my little mean things I’ve done lately. Hmmmm – I guess it feels good to share that and get it out of my head

  285.  #285Veronica on March 27, 2013 at 1:49 pm

    Mercedes – Oh I wasn’t asking in relation to being married or not married. I should have put that in. I was asking more about what it feels like for you in your relationship where both of you are committed to each other.

    But thank you for replying. I was feeling concerned that I could only hypothesize and I wasn’t feeling my way through this. Maybe I should sit with this a bit more.

  286.  #286nme008 on March 27, 2013 at 1:51 pm

    I’m feeling a ball of dread in my stomach…clenching in my chest. I need to relax and breath. Right now I feel like M and I have broken up with no closure. Cause how can you have a relationship without communication or seeing eachother?im trying to be strong and not have expectations but I’m really scared.

  287.  #287Memulo on March 27, 2013 at 1:59 pm

    LoveAlways, RELAX! Please;) he will call. Let him process or maybe he is just busy? He got it perfectly well why you said what you said, believe me;) a little rejection is ok, really.

  288.  #288Memulo on March 27, 2013 at 2:09 pm

    LoveAlways, yes, this is why I hate myself so much now;)

  289.  #289Dominique on March 27, 2013 at 2:10 pm

    Femininewoman – 252 – I don’t know what this means.


  290.  #290Mercedes on March 27, 2013 at 2:10 pm

    Veronica: Oh…I see…I misunderstood. Well, to me, my relationship feels very spontaneous yet also comfortable. It feels freeing yet also secure. It feels fun yet also supportive. It feels joyful yet also peaceful. It feels like I am the most blessed woman on the planet.

    And…I think that’s probably how it feels no matter who you are when you are with the person you are supposed to be with. 🙂

    Much Love,

  291.  #291Smile on March 27, 2013 at 2:13 pm

    I’m feeling thrilled inside around my life right now! Yet tonight I’m overwhelmed with work. It feels easier to just stop than to work late into the night. I’m going to go to bed and revel in my yummy feeling from the energy I have received today from amb. I’m creating a deep feeling existence for myself, and I love myself for that ((me))

  292.  #292Dominique on March 27, 2013 at 2:14 pm

    Okay I see nme in 257. Maybe it’s the wording which is a bit problematic. I understand what you mean, yet it sounds like you’re stuffing feelings which isn’t really what you’re doing.

    What you might do to switch your consciousness around this is to allow all the crazy stuff to flow through you and then on out of you. You get to choose which feeling to release and which one to sink more deeply into.


  293.  #293LoveAlways on March 27, 2013 at 2:18 pm

    Memulo – don’t hate yourself, love that part of you, it’s beautiful!!!! He could not appreciate or deal with that beautiful part of you. Don’t down play it, embrace and allow the universe to bring someone better your way.

    Im going to try to relax. Those NVs are easing up a little now.

  294.  #294Mercedes on March 27, 2013 at 2:19 pm

    nme: breathe…slowly and deeply. Remember how much you love being out with the girls. Enjoy your night. Allow the world to see you when you are in your element.

    And then maybe understand that if your boyfriend is the kind of guy who would “break up” with you by just never making contact with you again…well…he’s probably not the right guy for you anyway.

    I’m getting the feeling you are hoping to see him tonight and that you are holding expectations of how you want to see that go and your imagination is running wild on you. (that is a projection but also sort of a “feeling” I’m getting).

    I would like to encourage you to enjoy girl’s night without including him in the thought process of that plan.

    Oh…and breathe….deeply and slowly. 😉

    Much Love,

  295.  #295ALA on March 27, 2013 at 2:19 pm

    oooh, we get to choose what we want to feel! This excites me!!!

  296.  #296Dominique on March 27, 2013 at 2:21 pm

    Veronica – 267 – This isn’t an easy question to answer. Initially there was more excitement, yet much of this excitement was anxiety caused, my insecurities taking over.

    Things have morphed into a far more peaceful feeling place. There is a wonderful isness to how I feel. Yet I still feel happy and delighted every night when he comes home from work. I still get smiley and pitter patter feelings when I get an email during the day.

    Sometimes I can feel deeply connected, almost as one. Other times I can feel completely disconnected though in both these instances, it’s ALL me, what’s happening with me. And I can feel all kinds of in between.

    I feel safe. I feel adored and cherished. I feel content.

    I don’t know it this is helping at all.


  297.  #297ALA on March 27, 2013 at 2:24 pm

    “Memulo – don’t hate yourself, love that part of you, it’s beautiful!!!! He could not appreciate or deal with that beautiful part of you. Don’t down play it, embrace and allow the universe to bring someone better your way.”

    YES! D could never understand that part of me. The gentle currents underneath the surface or the hazardous rip-tides. Too scary for him.

  298.  #298Elsie on March 27, 2013 at 2:55 pm

    @Feminine woman – sorry I totally disagree. Her crazy will be in check because it REALLY IS IN CHECK. its not pretending or manipulating. Its going where you want to go….being with girlfriends….and being normal with your crazy in check.

    What in the world is the problem with that? You are leaning back, and being open and warm. The end.

    I stand by my comments and say you should go – nme.

  299.  #299Elsie on March 27, 2013 at 3:00 pm

    @mercedes – totally love your advice to nme!!!!

  300.  #300Elsie on March 27, 2013 at 3:07 pm

    Ok – now I need some help from you girls.

    As you know this last week and a half I have broken through to a whole new level in my relationship emotionally.

    I have been very vulnerable in a LOT of ways, and so far everything has been FANTASTIC.

    But I had meetings all day today – and he dealt with clients all day so we didnt have a chance to talk. At the end of the day – there was about 30 min or so before he left, and I thought he would come to my office to say goodbye and chat. (He ALWAYS either comes by to say good bye or calls me on the phone to say he is taking off for the day….very sweet.)

    But today, he didnt come by at all. And he didnt call to say he was leaving. I know he doesnt NEED to but it was weird – because now its been about 24 hours since he and i have really talked, and you know if you know my story that we talk A LOT each day…..

    So my negative voices have started. I feel so incredibly vulnerable emotionally after this last week. MORE EMOTIONAL THAN I’VE FELT IN A DECADE…and that isnt a lie. I am so vulerable and open and I really said and did a lot of things I have never done with anyone – so its just a little….

    …..well, I guess I need reassurance. And so far this last week and a half he was great at giving it – but wow – today I did see him around lunchtime, but it was nothing big, and we didnt really have an opportunity to talk – and then there was no good bye.

    And I want SO BADLY to see him tonight.

    He said that I should just ask for what I want, because he doesnt know sometimes, but why should I ask for him to come over? It feels icky and leaning forward and chasing to me, and I said I didnt like that…..but then he said he doesnt know unless I tell him….

    ….anyway – I dont know. I just want to be near him and I miss him, and I want to hang out with him tonight, but I wont text him first because I never do – its just my deal – I just cant lean in and be the boy and I’m done rowing the boat….and I love that I Have never really texted him first and have never called him first in a year and a half….. 🙂

    So anyway – the negative voices are LOUD.

    they are screaming that I shouldnt have done what I did – that I shouldnt have let myself get so vulnerable, that all he is going to do is hurt me (even though he promised me that I dont need to be scared and the he wanted to do this forever with me, and that he will do everything in his power never to hurt me…..and this is a man who has never ever lied to me – ever.)

    But wow – those negative voices are LOUD today.

    Just feeling really vulnerable, and wish he would have called to say good bye to me…..sniff sniff…..

  301.  #301Memulo on March 27, 2013 at 3:23 pm

    Elsie, once in a while it’s perfectly ok to suggest to meet. Just invite him over!

  302.  #302Elsie on March 27, 2013 at 3:25 pm

    Memulo – I know….I just cant. I just cant stand the idea of the fact taht I would ask, and get rejected. Even if there was a legitimate excuse…..I’m too sensitive and vulnerable now. If I asked him to come over, and he said no, I would be really hurt.

    I think I need to talk to him about this. Or….I dont know maybe not.

  303.  #303Memulo on March 27, 2013 at 4:00 pm

    Maybe he is busy and preoccupied with something Elsie? and that is the reason you did not hear from him? Can you go watch a movie by yourself or do something fun (with your phone shut down lol).

  304.  #304Vi on March 27, 2013 at 4:16 pm

    Stop and melt… thank you for this yummy reminder, Linda!

  305.  #305Elsie on March 27, 2013 at 4:16 pm

    @Memulo – I”m sure that he is. He always has a good reason for everything he does. He has never intentionally hurt me, but I guess I just feel really super vulnerable given a lot of things that happened this week that have never happened before between us – so my girlie insecurities are coming out.

    But I am remembering everything I have read and learned. Men are drawn to women who can handle their emotions. I want to be that kind of woman for him, AND for me……and just because you have an emotion does NOT mean you have to act on it in that moment, and in fact, many emotions are not even really real in the sense that after a while they fade and dont even represent what you really wanted at all……

    I guess I’mjust feeling especially emotionally vulnerable….and I need his reassurance which is silly, but I do. Or rather….I FEEl like I do….I really dont need his reassurance, I really am ok – it just would feel nice.

    The problem I am having is ….I feel like telling him what I want him to do is leaning in…..and it feels icky to me – it feels masculine….but then how can he just know what I need? He has said for me to tell him, but it just doesnt feel right now that the moment is here that I want something to tell him.

    I”m not only afraid that what I want wont show up for me but MORE IMPORTANTLY it FEELS SO MASCULINE….and I dont like that feeling…….so thats the reason that I’m not asking him to come over tonight….

  306.  #306Smile on March 27, 2013 at 4:28 pm

    Dominique, I would love to know what you think about this …

    I’m staying at my mums at the minute whilst I’m in the process of buying my own house. she is rarely here though. Amb stays over and comes round etc but when my mums not in. Last week I needed to fill in some forms and it required me to have my passport so we had to come back, fortunately my mum wasn’t in. I think he could sense my anxiety around me not wanting him to meet my mum. If he rings the house phone I make sure I answer as I dont want him to speak to her having not been formally introduced.
    He laughed the other day and said … ‘ would it be so bad if I met your mum?’ I would love for him to meet my mum and wondered if that’s where we were at? I said I’d feel more comfy meeting his mum first. I said it happily, carefree and like hey it’ll happen one day. Thing is I’m not in a rush to do the family thing, he’ll introduce me when it’s right. My family are local though and in my daily life, he lives far away from his parents. I explained I didn’t want him to stay over whilst my mum was home as I’m not use to living with my mum as an adult and it would feel weird. He understood this.

    My question is, should I wait for him to introduce me to his family first? He’s kind of led it by saying he would be happy to meet mine.

    Then there’s my fear. My fear that I’ll introduce him to my friends and family and then he’ll disappear like strummingman did, although it feels totally different with amb. I guess I dont want to be embarrassed if it doesn’t work out.
    I’ve told my family brief things about him. But it’s still early days for me. I feel so amazing in his company and he loves that he makes me feel that way. I want to move my fear on so I can talk about and show people how amazing he makes md feel.

    I would love to hear what you think? X

    We are going away together in a few days

  307.  #307Smile on March 27, 2013 at 4:29 pm

    I would love to hear any thoughts from other sirens? It would feel useful to have input on this 🙂

  308.  #308Linda G on March 27, 2013 at 4:46 pm

    Smile, I know you were aiming for Dominique to respond, but …

    I don’t see the big deal with him meeting your Mom first, especially if you are living with her. If he has been in the house, it’s only proper and natural.

    Also it’s more mature, not less on your part I feel.

  309.  #309nme008 on March 27, 2013 at 4:56 pm

    Veronica_267_ Thank you!

    Mercedes_269_ What you are describing is EXACTLY the type of relationship I want one day! 🙂
    Mercedes_294_ I think I hope I see him and things all work out but I don’t think that will happen. That is where the dread and anxiety are coming in. I am trying to not have any expectations, but I feel like regaurdles I expect to see him and it not be okay. And its nerve wracking. I ended up having coffee with my friend I’m going out with later and told her what was going on. I didn’t intend to but it just came out. She asked if I wanted to skip out tonight but I said no I want to go and I want it to be about us girls having fun and nothing else. I told her he is not a factor in tonight. I had to stress to her to just be happy and normal. She is the type of friend that if your upset she’s upset. lol.

  310.  #310Smile on March 27, 2013 at 4:59 pm

    Thanks Linda, it felt great to have you reply 🙂 sometimes It feels a bit lonely on the blog so it’s nice to have you respond.

    Yeh I kinda think it would be ok too, I guess in my head I had pictured him introducing me to his first. As in him take the lead and I guess he is by saying he wants to meet her.

    I’ve met a friend of his and meeting some when we get back from holiday.

  311.  #311Linda G on March 27, 2013 at 5:03 pm

    Smile, i kind of remember Rori explaining that a guy meeting your parents doesn’t mean to him what it does to us, nor does it affect the “timeline”

  312.  #312Syrena on March 27, 2013 at 5:08 pm

    218: Starbright Thank you for the recommendations that feels helpful.

    Dominique 220, you are right it is not all men and women, that is why I said usually. So to me I believe the ones who do not are rare, Where as you use the word many, it would appear that you believe the reverse is true.

  313.  #313nme008 on March 27, 2013 at 5:11 pm

    Elsie_298_ I am going and taking all your great advice to heart. Thank you. 🙂

    Elsie_300_ I know how you feel. But I really think you have nothing to worry about, sounds like you have a keeper. I hope your feeling better…nothing wrong with missing and wanting to see your man!

  314.  #314Smile on March 27, 2013 at 5:13 pm

    Linda, I think I do too, i know this doesn’t make us committed, I’m enjoying the uncommitted part so I’m not sure it means to me what i think it should do. It did in the past and on my journey I suppose I’ve come to realise that meeting family doesnt define a relationship. But I feel great which is what matters, he’s meeting my needs and it’s moving forward maybe not quite how I expected it to so I should probably let go of expectations here.

  315.  #315nme008 on March 27, 2013 at 5:17 pm

    Ummmm crazy night so far…like I said earlier XM text me out of the blue today…I didn’t respond.

    Then was grabbing a slice of pizza with my friend for dinner and saw J, my ex from the summer. The one that gave me my insecurities about distance meaning the end. Because he literally fell off the face of the earth after 4 months.

    THEN as I’m sitting eating R walks in with his mom!!!!

    Seriously???? Am I being tested? I’m I supposed to be getting some hint here that I’m missing????

    Feeling better about tonight right now but we’ll see my gut is flip flopping as the day goes on…

  316.  #316Elsie on March 27, 2013 at 5:18 pm

    @nme – but wow, I want to see him. And as insane as it is – and even though I saw him on Sunday – wow, I miss that closeness. I crave it now because I havent had it in years……

    You will be FINE tonight….Just remember – dont EXCEPT him to act a certain way – just expect him to do nothing, and then see if you are surprised…..but REALLY expect nothing. I know thats hard…..

    @Smile – I think its totally fine to introduce him to your mom – you are all adults. I dont think that is a big deal that you do it first – ONE of you has to do it first…. haha!

  317.  #317Elsie on March 27, 2013 at 5:21 pm

    @nme – oh no!!! haha! As far as XM goes – I dont think its a big deal that he wanted to see where something else was oging – in fact I think that is honorable that he was HONEST with you and said listen I dont want to cheat on this other girl. I dont know – I sort of liked that he said that – it means that if he was ever with you – he would say that to another girl. I liked it – but thats me. 🙂

  318.  #318Smile on March 27, 2013 at 5:22 pm

    Thanks Elsie,this is very true 🙂

  319.  #319ALA on March 27, 2013 at 5:23 pm

    Smile – “Then there’s my fear.”

    He’s not the same person as your ex and he’s not going to do the same things.

    Letting go of my own fears is what I’m facing.

    I’m proud of my friends and family and wouldn’t hesitate one bit introducing them to each other. If things don’t work out, the people who really care about you will still be there for you… and feel good that you thought well enough of them for an introduction. If it doesn’t work out, the people I consider friends will understand and will want to be there for me.

  320.  #320Smile on March 27, 2013 at 5:23 pm

    Uggg, strummingman has left a lot of fear in me 🙁 fear I never had before.

  321.  #321Smile on March 27, 2013 at 5:25 pm

    ALA, thank you that really helped. 🙂 yes my friends and family are very supportive and lovely as is amb. I would really love to open up that part of my life and show all of who I am

  322.  #322nme008 on March 27, 2013 at 5:33 pm

    I agree. I told XM at the time that I totally respected him for his honesty and for not talking to both of us at the same time when he was involved.

  323.  #323ALA on March 27, 2013 at 5:35 pm

    (( Smile ))

    I feel good that I can help someone.

    I’ve been second guessing myself for far too long. It’s about time that I trust my gut feelings and intuition.

    Something’s different here on the blog. I wish more people had access to this healing knowledge. Sometimes while talking to friends it feels a little off. They dont listen at level 2!!! I feel a little frustrated sometimes/A LOT of times with that.

    More triggers for my healing. learning to speak up!

  324.  #324nme008 on March 27, 2013 at 5:36 pm

    I get your fear….not saying we should fear this but I get it. J totally fell off and I was glad he hadn’t met my family it was embarressing enough just having my friends KNOW about him. And now with M I’m feeling that same fear, that he will just disapear and he has met my youngest daugther, my brother, sister, aunts, cousins and so many friends. Why do I fear embarresment? It’s as if when I’m asked about him and I say he fell off it looks like I wasn’t good enough for him….I know that’s not true. I’m totally good enough but that’s how it FEELS.

  325.  #325nme008 on March 27, 2013 at 5:37 pm

    Crazy that I’m going through this with M right now and I saw J tonight after 6 months!!!

  326.  #326Elsie on March 27, 2013 at 5:38 pm

    @nme – I cant wait to hear about your night !!!! I’m sure it will go awesome – drink one for me. 🙂

    I’m sooooo debating as to whether to text him or not…..sigh.

    I think what I might do is NOT text him. Then tomorrow I can visit with him about how he doesnt really sort of think about what I need, and that he asked me to tell him……so I want to revisit that issue as to how to do it and not feel icky. Maybe he will have an idea as to how to help me, or a solution for us…….I’ll do Queens Code and ask HIM to find a SOLUTION for us. 🙂

    HEY! Just like he did when he said he would text before he comes over – yah – this is perfect……I will ask him to find a solution – I like this idea – what do you girls think!

  327.  #327nme008 on March 27, 2013 at 5:40 pm


    I totally get what you mean about talking to friends and it feels off!!! Since I started posting on this blog its like don’t want to talk to my friends about me and M cause they don’t get it. They want me to lean in and out of anger at how he is acting. I don’t want to act that way and they don’t get it. It’s frustraiting and I feel judged by them.

  328.  #328ALA on March 27, 2013 at 5:41 pm

    My sister helped me last night with encouraging words, telling me NOT to email d.

    I can feel her love.

    A friend told me today that I should go ahead and take the vacation D and I were planning… so what if he’s there. I can show him what he passed up.

    I’m much more than the doormatty, pathetic nothing he thinks I am!

  329.  #329nme008 on March 27, 2013 at 5:41 pm

    I think that’s a GREAT idea. Not only do I think it’s a great idea but it’s extra great cause you feel good about it and are comfortable with doing it. Yay you!

  330.  #330Elsie on March 27, 2013 at 5:45 pm

    nme – I agree – girls on the “outside” world all have their swords up (Read Queens Code!) and they are ready to fight!!! They are all frog farmers. 🙂

    And I like my idea but I REALLY want to see him, so I have to figure out what to do tonight to pass time……I’ll wash my hair and maybe just go to bed early.

    Sigh……(thats a dramatic sigh) lol – I wish I could be with him……

  331.  #331Smile on March 27, 2013 at 5:46 pm

    ALA, yey 🙂
    I resonate about friends and wishing more people had access to this healing knowledge. Thing is this is my haven. I don’t want to share it with my friends. I dint want them to know my journey :/ gosh! I think it would stop me from posting if I told people about it.

  332.  #332ALA on March 27, 2013 at 5:48 pm

    nme, I hope you go and just relax and enjoy yourself tonight!

    Who cares what M things or does. This is your girls night. He hasn’t offered you the kind of commitment YOU want and there are plenty of men that would be honored (as what’s showing up for you now!!!) to have you.

  333.  #333Smile on March 27, 2013 at 5:52 pm

    Nme, I guess we have to just trust and take that chance, knowing our family and friends will love and support us whatever the outcome 🙂

  334.  #334ALA on March 27, 2013 at 5:57 pm

    Smile, Oh I know! This is my own little oasis. I’ve mentioned it on occasion without giving too any specifics.

    I just wish more people have access to a healthier perspective on life as well as relationships.

  335.  #335ALA on March 27, 2013 at 6:10 pm

    Today has been an especially emotional day. Still wanting to email D.

    Thank you, Rori and Sirens for being here.

    I still want to mail D. And it would be useless. He’s moved on and “thinks” it is so much better than with me.

    He’s a fool.

    Why do I still love this fool?

  336.  #336nme008 on March 27, 2013 at 6:21 pm

    Hair and make-up done…feeling good about ME and just waiting for my friend to pick me up. Another friend I havent seen in awhile is coming out tonight too so it’s gonna be a fun night with friends. And I’m looking kinda amazing if I do say so myself lol. Have a great night ladies!!!!

    Keep busy Elsie, or bed is a good option. I did that a few nights this week so I wouldn’t text M.

  337.  #337nme008 on March 27, 2013 at 6:22 pm

    Although I didnt love J, I was still shaking when I saw him. He hurt me bad. I hate that I let him affect me so….I know how you feel.

  338.  #338Elsie on March 27, 2013 at 6:32 pm

    @ALA – You love him because of how he made you feel. Thats mostly why people love other people, right? So, now he makes you feel different, but its hard to let those memories go. Be gentle with yourself. We have all been there 🙂

  339.  #339Elsie on March 27, 2013 at 6:32 pm

    @nme – HAVE FUN!!!!!!!!!!!

  340.  #340MovingMagic on March 27, 2013 at 6:34 pm

    Ohhh, this full moon/my period has me feeling topsy turvy. My intention for this week has been to have no expectations & that has triggered a whole new world of emotions & understanding for me. The past 4 months have been so intense. I’ve had so many beautiful experiences come my way, yet along with that has been my mothers breast cancer diagnosis. It’s always there, always lingering. No expectations is layered when you’re dealing with so many emotions. ((hugging myself)).

  341.  #341ALA on March 27, 2013 at 6:41 pm

    When the pages take longer to load I finally notice the pic in the article. This is one of my favorites!

    “Love Yourself”

    … so simple, yet poignant…. as the waves crash onto the shore.

    I feel alone and lonely tonight.

  342.  #342Elsie on March 27, 2013 at 6:44 pm

    @Moving Magic – I’m so sorry to hear of your mom’s diagnosis. Is she going to be ok? My doctor was diagnosed and is totally fine now……:) I just wanted to give you some uplifting news. 🙂

  343.  #343MovingMagic on March 27, 2013 at 6:50 pm

    Thank you Elsie. She just finished her 2nd round of chemo. She has 3 more. They caught it before it had spread, & it was slow forming (stage 1). She’s a beautiful & strong woman, with an amazing support team/community around her. She has built it by just being who she is. I’m half a country away…and that has been hard for me. I’m feeling it a bit tonight.

  344.  #344ALA on March 27, 2013 at 6:52 pm

    wha?… scolling back. Oh man, my problems are so insignificant to others and what they’re dealing with.
    (((MM’s Mom )))

  345.  #345Memulo on March 27, 2013 at 6:53 pm


  346.  #346Memulo on March 27, 2013 at 6:57 pm

    Smile, I have a lot of fear now too. And more like I don’t want to let anyone too close. Or I can’t.

    He and I had such a bond. We had a lot of unspoken stuff in common. He is crazy cryptic and often sounds like his words and thoughts are disconnected. but I always knew what he was saying.

  347.  #347Memulo on March 27, 2013 at 7:00 pm

    I have a date on Friday night. Match has such a supply of guys. I am still catching up on emails. how do they find me? I’m never online;)
    I just talked to him and he sounds kind. I don’t think he is my next guy, but the conversation was easy and I need that now.

  348.  #348Memulo on March 27, 2013 at 7:01 pm

    Elsie, if oyu don’t text or call and don’t freak out, you know how it’s called? COOOOOOL girl 😉

  349.  #349nme008 on March 27, 2013 at 7:04 pm

    I don’t usually do this…I’m at the bar on my phone on the blog lol. Feel good but nervous still. I feel like a lot of the pool team that I’m usually friends w are acting weird. Is it in my head? I saw M as I went to the ladies room. He looked ….nervous? I smiled and said hey. I usually touch him though and I didn’t…I do feel a little off.

  350.  #350Elsie on March 27, 2013 at 7:08 pm

    @nme – LOL – yay – we are with you at the bar! haha! Drink one for me 🙂 I’m sure they weren’t acting weird, they were probably just drinking – dont owrry about that at all……

    I know you feel “off” just take a deep breath, and dont have ANY expectations. He may not talk to you at all and thats OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK ….. its really ok.

    He is probably nervous. He probably thinks you are going to go bananas on him. 🙂 LOL – and you arent so thats good. 🙂 Keep it up you are doing great. 🙂

  351.  #351Elsie on March 27, 2013 at 7:09 pm

    @Memulo – I’m not calling or texting, but wow, I want to. So I guess is that a bit of a freak out? I dont know – I dont think it s afreak out but it not being cool girl LOL. Somewhere in the middle – baby steps LOL

  352.  #352Memulo on March 27, 2013 at 7:12 pm

    all he knows Elsie is that you’re not texting or calling:)

  353.  #353Elsie on March 27, 2013 at 7:22 pm

    @Memulo – he just texted me – but he is at some store at the mall and texted me just a picture of an inside joke of ours……no words, just the pic. So I just texted back “lol”……that was it. Now I”m thnking – ok – you are out at the mall … you cant stop by? Or ask to stop by? Ugh…..I guess its nice he texted me and was thinking of me and it was cute…..but I got no words and I didnt even get a “hey what are you doing later” etc. or anything…..

    Negative voices are so loud. Its from years of being mistreated. They are just trying to protect me and tell me to shield myself from getting hurt.

  354.  #354Elsie on March 27, 2013 at 7:23 pm

    Ok I’m going to bed. I’m tired, and I need to take care of me. 🙂 Good night ladies……and nme – have a good night – dont stress and lean back!!!

  355.  #355joan T on March 27, 2013 at 7:27 pm

    Yes, you have just told me how I feel now, Angry, and
    Depressed too. Can you uses Tough Love, Is it a good
    have in this kind of relationship? What is it? Why do I
    lose out? Thanks

  356.  #356Sirenity on March 27, 2013 at 8:01 pm

    Go Zara , I always loved your perspectives. I agree totally that an imaginary relationship is an uncommitted one . It can look like a duck , quack like a duck and even poop like a duck , but its not actually a duck… Its got no commitment “soul” in it. And I have lived through two of these and couldnt figure it out. Its the soul commitment, and the intention of ongoing togetherness and caring for , tending the relationships health and its future that makes it real in my opinion.

  357.  #357Olivia on March 27, 2013 at 8:13 pm

    @Elsie “Negative voices are so loud. Its from years of being mistreated. They are just trying to protect me and tell me to shield myself from getting hurt.”

    Thank you for this. It is such a good reminder of how to go about embracing the nasty voice.

  358.  #358Tereana on March 27, 2013 at 8:13 pm

    Syrena – 188 that is very well put. I think you articulated the difference between “commitment” and “fidelity.” as women, it is very easy for us to interpret fidelity as implicitly meaning commitment also, but you are right – that isn’t what that means. And that’s not a cynical view of men. It’s what men do. It is what we are learning to do as well – be in a relationship to “see how it goes” (and how we feel) before we make a commitment, regardless of the physical status of a relationship.



  359.  #359Tereana on March 27, 2013 at 8:16 pm

    I saw one of my NVs last night, and she was mean-looking! Nasty little goblin face. But she was pink. And she had sharp teeth – I figured perfect for eating a delicious cookie ; )

  360.  #360Femininewoman on March 27, 2013 at 8:17 pm

    Turquoise thanks for the update. I would say try to find something to enjoy and appreciate about each moment you have with her. I know it is hard, but you know what, you still have her. When these things happen we see what is important in life and we put things more in its proper perspective.

  361.  #361Femininewoman on March 27, 2013 at 8:21 pm

    ALA I know when we see people having big problems we feel humbled to the point of thinking that we are being selfish. Your problems are not insignificant. Just different and in the bigger scheme of things might have less weight. Yet the fact that YOU are facing them and have them to deal with they feel huge and heavy. Go in front of the mirror and talk to yourself. Tell the girl in the mirror that you love her and are there for her. Tell her she is beautiful and worthy of all her heart’s desire.

  362.  #362Femininewoman on March 27, 2013 at 8:22 pm

    (((((((((((((joan T)))))))))))))))))))

  363.  #363Libelula on March 27, 2013 at 8:33 pm

    I’m feeling so embarrassed. I keep hoping MrUnA will write me & tell me that he’s made a mistake and wants me back. I’m so addicted to this man that even though he’s wrong for me, I can’t help wanting him still. I’m trying to ask myself what is it about him that triggers me to have this attraction to him? My feelings definitely fluctuate – earlier I felt so relieved that he isn’t contacting me, but now I feel anxious that he isn’t. Is there anything else I can do besides let the feelings come and go?

  364.  #364nme008 on March 27, 2013 at 8:53 pm

    Elsie_ Update….I’m home and about to fall asleep…was going to wait till tomorrow to update but this is almost like a journal for me and want my feelings to be fresh….I walked past M one other time and felt much more myself. Did a little booty bump as I passed him lol. He just laughed and said hey.

    Then as he was paying his tab he was at this doorway of sorts where the pool room is and you can look into the bar area where I was. I looked up and he was trying to get my attention. He made a guesture that he was leaving then was doing someother weird thing lol. I kinda waved then asked if he wanted me to go over there, I was unsure. He shook his head no and put his hand to his ear? lol, I don’t know if he was saying he’s gonna call or wants me to…either way I’m not calling and having no expectations going into tonight I didn’t feel let down. I actually feel good. Ok going to bed now….

  365.  #365Linda G on March 27, 2013 at 8:57 pm

    Nme,( just got caught up)

    It doesn’t matter what he gestured.

    You did great! A real rock star!

  366.  #366Libelula on March 27, 2013 at 9:14 pm

    I like your description of your NV – will she be eating macaroon cookies this week?

  367.  #367Veronica on March 27, 2013 at 10:00 pm

    Dominique and Mercedes – Thank you so much!

  368.  #368Emerson on March 27, 2013 at 11:10 pm

    I’m feeling frustrated and fed up with men and dating. I’ve met some bitter men this week..

  369.  #369Emerson on March 27, 2013 at 11:13 pm

    ExoticCD is putting in minimal effort and I respond to his calls and texts (though I’m waiting longer now) but I refuse to row.

  370.  #370Tereana on March 27, 2013 at 11:22 pm

    Well, I haven’t heard from dancingCD today… But we texted yesterday. And I initiated that one. Darn. That just be why I’m feeling a little off-balance about it. But he’s still cute. Which is why I guess I can lean back now and see what he does…

    There was a cute moment this past weekend, where we were cuddling, and not much was happening. And then I just started thinking the word “girl, girl, girl, girl” over and over in my head. And suddenly, he was kissing me and petting me, and I was like, whoa! That was fast. I’m amazed at how in tune he is with me sometimes. He’s a sensitive guy, I guess. Kind of my type.

    But to me, he’s “practice.” I don’t really see where it’s going, if anywhere. He doesn’t feel like a magical “one” person. But he is very nice and sweet and non-threatening to me.

    And so I am practicing staying present. In every moment, but especially in physical ones, where I might otherwise not want to feel, or will simply “go away” in my mind, while my body is still there. I think I’m getting better st it. At least I want to be…

  371.  #371k2012 on March 27, 2013 at 11:24 pm

    Hugs to u Emerson. Sometimes I wonder if I will ever meet the right person. Dating is a piece of work.

  372.  #372Emerson on March 27, 2013 at 11:40 pm

    370 Tereana I like your girl girl thing.. I’m gonna try that 🙂

    Thanks k201

    Sirens I’ve been in boy mode I need to switch gears …

    I’m so triggered by men using work as a reason to be unavailable and I do get it that we have to work, yes, but if you want to see me you will make time.
    I don’t know what happened with exoticCD maybe he just wanted sex. I know it doesn’t matter but I just hate this.

  373.  #373Emerson on March 27, 2013 at 11:43 pm

    Btw with exoticcd we kissed but did not have sex…not even close and I made it clear I’m not interested in casual sex.

    I feel so discouraged. Then I ran into a excoworker/acquaintance’s exboyfriend and he was really flirty & coming on to me… I have no attraction to him but lots of girls like him and he is smart, talented, has a great job, etc but it was just weird.

  374.  #374Emerson on March 27, 2013 at 11:54 pm

    Sirens I was on a coffee date of sorts,,unexpectedly (I ran into an old flame) and I totally forgot about my girly energy and my tools … Ugh why did I forget?

  375.  #375Libelula on March 27, 2013 at 11:58 pm

    Emerson – 374: …because we’re all practicing; it takes time and practice to really incorporate all that we’re learning into our lives. *hugs* If you can, shake it off & give yourself a hug.

  376.  #376Sirenity on March 28, 2013 at 12:49 am

    Turquoise..Blessings to you and your family on this journey..and it really is a journey, you just dont know the destination yet or how long it must go on. Please take adequate rest , distraction, nourishment and support to see you through. Family are best to support each other and Sweetheart will hopefully come to understand this. Thinking of you.XXX

  377.  #377Tany on March 28, 2013 at 2:15 am

    I am in a relationship with a guy since 18 mnths and had sex only for first 6 months i got pregnant and after that we had sex couple of times and he abruptly stopped.He says he stopped getting that feeling and when i asked him for marriage he says he will not marry anyone including me but he says i am the only girl in his life and wouldnt marry/date any1 else. I dont want to end my relationship but want to know the reason behind abruptly stopping sex. He says he has lots of feelings and that sex is not the only thing in our relationship. I want to get physical sometimes but he refuses am pissed off and had no sex since 1 year 🙁 How should i take this relationship? totally confused plz help!!!!

  378.  #378Femininewoman on March 28, 2013 at 2:37 am

    Emerson you sound great to me. You are trying. You are practicing. You are aware. The switch will happen before you realize it.

  379.  #379Femininewoman on March 28, 2013 at 3:03 am

  380.  #380nme008 on March 28, 2013 at 5:20 am

    Linda G_ Thank you!!! I felt great last night….well lets be completely honest. I felt good, I would have felt great if more happend but I still felt good. And that was enough for then.

  381.  #381nme008 on March 28, 2013 at 5:26 am

    Of course today my NV’s are starting in though…..I wanna call or text, I keep thinking (over thinking I’m sure) what was he gesturing….did he want me to call last night when I got home? Blah!!! It doesn’t matter right, regaurdless what the gesture was I should still just wait for him. And WHY have I dreamt of him the last three nights? Don’t recall all of the dreams but I know he was in them. I really want to have a good day!!!! Kids are off from school and going with my roommate and her daughter to the movie tavern. Downfall? My roommate is a sword up kinda girl, as soon as she saw me this morning she asked if M was there last night and if he talked to me and was getting attitudy cause he really didn’t do much. I started to feel bad and judged. She thinks I should just say F it and text XM and go out…

  382.  #382nme008 on March 28, 2013 at 5:33 am

    I wish I could just leave my phone at home for the day so I don’t even have the opportunity to look at it but first my son is at a friends so I need to be reachable and second if he calls or texts it will be after my kids go with their dad tonight anyway. Still….

  383.  #383Linda G on March 28, 2013 at 5:36 am

    Time for the 180 nme, put on something cute, go shopping, get coffee, …

  384.  #384IamHis on March 28, 2013 at 6:09 am

    I’m still really proud of myself, but I also feel really humiliated.

    This isn’t the whole conversation by any means, I don’t remember, and I’m still trying to process…

    Jack CD told me he didn’t feel that way about me. He told me he was a jerk to me.

    He then said he didn’t want me to hold a grudge against him.

    In my shock and vulnerability, I said, “so, you’re just not attracted to me.”

    and he said “I can’t say that…”

    Me, after a pause: “Must be my personality. We probably wouldn’t be a good fit. Well, you’re probably right.”

    Wish I hadn’t said that.

    Well, I just sat there in silence.

    and I actually felt really good at first. I felt relieved.

    and then I felt all those other emotions.

    I became really angry and tried to leave, but he said I shouldn’t leave angry and I said I don’t have to stay you know. and he said I know but don’t go.

    so, I didn’t go. and I kinda just sat back down next to him, and found myself reeling. I’ve never felt so disconnected from a person in my entire life, with them sitting right there next to me.

    He just sat with me for the longest time. and I feel kind of angry with him for doing that. I mean, what was the point? To show me that he really is a nice guy, deep down? To make himself feel better?

    I think at one point I actually asked him if he was a sociopath. and then, lest he get offended, I told him that they have a bad stigma and that they’re actually not that bad of people. just misunderstood, cause they can’t feel empathy.

    and then at some point he asked me what I was thinking twice.

    The first time, he interrupted my train of thoughts, so I told him I honestly didn’t know because he interrupted my train of thoughts.

    The second time, he had led me to sit outside the tennis courts and I was just staring at this sign posted outside of the gated-in court.

    It said; “Show courtesy to those who are waiting and limit use time to one hour.”

    and so he said, “what are you thinking?”

    and I told him that I was just reading that over and over again and thinking about the metaphor in it.

    and he just went “wow.”

    and I’m still in shock over my friend who died, and the two grievances feel confusing and over-lapping.

    and right now I just feel kind of numb.

    and paranoid that someone I know in real life is going to read this…

  385.  #385IamHis on March 28, 2013 at 6:13 am

    on the walk there, he seemed so much nicer.

    on the walk back to my place, he walked faster than me, and seemed angry.

    I know that he was probably angry with himself. He should be. He should be.

  386.  #386IamHis on March 28, 2013 at 6:17 am

    I’m glad I did it, because I have a lot to learn. If I have to humiliate myself to learn, then i guess I have to humiliate myself. It is better than being clueless, ignorant, and alone.

    I’m still alone.

    He tried so hard to get my attention. I swear I didn’t make it easy for him. I swear I didn’t. I’m the only girl who didn’t make it easy for him.

    I thought he valued that.

    I thought he valued me.
    I thought he respected me.

  387.  #387IamHis on March 28, 2013 at 6:22 am

    I was here first. He’s the one who moved back, and weaseled his way into my social circle. I feel like avoiding MY stuff that he now goes to, but I should have to, because it’s MY stuff, and he invaded it.

    He tried so hard to make himself look good and to get in with the people I know, love, trust, and respect.

    I watched him do it, I’m not crazy.

    and I asked him, I said, “so you just wanted to break me?”

    and he said, “no, I didn’t want to break you.”

  388.  #388Dominique on March 28, 2013 at 6:24 am

    Smile – 306 – I see absolutely no reason why he can’t meet your family first or why it even matters who meets whom first. It makes more sense he would meet your family since they are local.

    And your fears around him doing what another man did are just that, fears. You already said and feel that he is SO not the same man.

    Fear only gets in your way. Do your best to let this go, recognize it for what it is, and let it go. Tell yourself that it’s just your silly fears rearing their silly heads again. Laugh at them; laugh with them, and put them to bed.


  389.  #389IamHis on March 28, 2013 at 6:25 am

    I’m so angry, but I can’t even feel it properly. I can’t feel anything right now. I don’t feel anything right now. I don’t feel real right now.

    My arms just feel hot.

    and my chest and my face.

  390.  #390Syrena on March 28, 2013 at 6:32 am

    Thank You Tereana 358. That is what I mean’t yes Just because a man is agreeing to not sleep with anyone else while he is seeing you, So is on the same page re fidelity, it doesn’t mean he wants to be with you forever and he thinks you are his one and only till death us do part. He just means for now. So if he hasn’t decided and made or offered you that commitment, that he wants you as a life partner, don’t close all your options off either and invest all your time in him hoping that one day that will be what he wants with you.

  391.  #391Dominique on March 28, 2013 at 6:35 am

    Veronica – 367 – 🙂


  392.  #392Syrena on March 28, 2013 at 6:54 am


    “Dominique, I would love to know what you think about this …

    I’m staying at my mums at the minute whilst I’m in the process of buying my own house. she is rarely here though. Amb stays over and comes round etc but when my mums not in. Last week I needed to fill in some forms and it required me to have my passport so we had to come back, fortunately my mum wasn’t in. I think he could sense my anxiety around me not wanting him to meet my mum. If he rings the house phone I make sure I answer as I dont want him to speak to her having not been formally introduced.
    He laughed the other day and said … ‘ would it be so bad if I met your mum?’ I would love for him to meet my mum and wondered if that’s where we were at? I said I’d feel more comfy meeting his mum first. I said it happily, carefree and like hey it’ll happen one day. Thing is I’m not in a rush to do the family thing, he’ll introduce me when it’s right. My family are local though and in my daily life, he lives far away from his parents. I explained I didn’t want him to stay over whilst my mum was home as I’m not use to living with my mum as an adult and it would feel weird. He understood this.

    My question is, should I wait for him to introduce me to his family first? He’s kind of led it by saying he would be happy to meet mine.

    Then there’s my fear. My fear that I’ll introduce him to my friends and family and then he’ll disappear like strummingman did, although it feels totally different with amb. I guess I dont want to be embarrassed if it doesn’t work out.
    I’ve told my family brief things about him. But it’s still early days for me. I feel so amazing in his company and he loves that he makes me feel that way. I want to move my fear on so I can talk about and show people how amazing he makes md feel.

    I would love to hear what you think? X

    We are going away together in a few days

    “I would love to hear any thoughts from other sirens? It would feel useful to have input on this 🙂 ”

    We are all on a journey of self discovery of reconnecting to our inner core and feelings and honoring where we are and not abandoning those and learning to love and chose to love honor and accept our all of our feelings. Being true to ourselves. Then when we do this we attract the right man for us, we have changed our vibration to a higher vibration of love.

    So here goes. reading back on what you have said and where you are at.

    “I think he could sense my anxiety around me not wanting him to meet my mum.”
    Honor it is it there to protect you.
    This would be I feel anxious and not ready for this to happen yet, so the loving action would be don’t do it yet.

    “I said I’d feel more comfy meeting his mum first.”

    The ball is now in his court if that is what would make you feel more comfortable and is what you want.

    He will either step up or he won’t.

    “I want to move my fear on so I can talk about and show people how amazing he makes md feel.”

    If he steps up you will the feel more comfortable and relaxed and feel ready to do this.

    So if he brings it up again, or it naturally comes up speak your truth and stick to what you want.

    It’s about learning to put your feelings first, and then the right man for you will. X

  393.  #393IamHis on March 28, 2013 at 7:00 am

    he also said, “remember how you said I’m hard to figure out? Think about that…”

    ew. eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeew.

  394.  #394Syrena on March 28, 2013 at 7:01 am

    It’s about choosing love over fear. Love for your feelings and honoring them so you stop being scared of losing any man.

    Your fear in abandonment, so the first step is don’t abandon yourself and your feelings.

    There is a difference between negative voices that put us down, which we need to tell to go away.

    And negative feelings which are there to be loved, nurtured honored taken care of and not abandoned.

  395.  #395Linda on March 28, 2013 at 7:20 am

    300 …ELsie

    I have been just where you are. At times I still find myself there. Wanting something… but wanting to do things the Rori way… I can totally identify with everything you wrote and your thoughts. You are not alone!

    I have found that negative voices get triggered in me when I encounter a situation that feels like what I have been thru before that felt bad or was bad. I using those triggers as opporunities to really sink in and understand/work thru my past wounds/and understand my wants and needs. I have also been trying to remain open to new ideas and possibilities. Instead of pushing the NV’s down I have been truly embracing them as friends that have something I can springboard into a better healthier version of me. Once sorted thru… my feelings and needs tweeked or not still are what I am true to. I have become wholey commited to being my best friend and caretaker and not budging on that.

    I was circular dating for several months and FavoriteCD just kept stepping up. I now am only seeing him but making that dec When we find ourselves in with a man in the beginning stages of a relationship

  396.  #396Linda on March 28, 2013 at 8:00 am

    oops hit send before I was done.. (from 394)

    So.. knowing what my true feelings are have been instrumental in navigating thru my new relationship I am in now. The second part has been to communicate my feelings, wants, needs in a feminine energy way and at the right time.

    Communication is a BIG deal with me. I wanted and expected the type of communication that you decribed you were on the receiving end of with your new man. My belief was that if he did not contact me it was because he did not want to and was not interested in me really. When I was with him in person though it felt completely different…. Dominiques advice helped me see that I needed to be open to what a man decided to bring and not have expectations (see her blog). Delightfully I can say that tweeking this in me has cause me to be wonderfully surprised by FavoriteCD on several occasions but I still would like him to step up the communication and connection too. The difference has been that I do not feel not want the commuication because I need reassurance of his interest in me anymore. My attitude shifted and it feels healthier to me now. Living with it does not feel foreign to me now either. I will interject though.. that just last week end we were having a “heart to heart” that he initiated and I told him what I would like in the communication department. Not based out of clingy need like it would have been for me before but just simply sharing what my desire is.

    You seem like you are using the tools but putting yourself thru the wringer while doing it. COuld you look inside and sift… find your peaceful place and when the opportunity presents itself be ready to share in a non-blamey, non self denying way. I bet you can, if I did!

    In the beginning stages of a relationship is great opportunity to grow, practice and learn. Sometimes it feels like work sometimes it just flows. All of it has been good for me.

  397.  #397Rori Raye on March 28, 2013 at 8:57 am

    Tany – what happened with your pregnancy? The easy answer here is that he doesn’t want you to get pregnant again. This relationship – and this is going to sound tough, so please know I just want to tell you the truth as I see it – is over. Please move on. Please take better care of yourself and begin to understand how relationships work. I can understand him wanting sex without penetration, to be safe. That’s something you can work out. But if he simply wants a friendship – then you are done. Love, Rori

  398.  #398Elsie on March 28, 2013 at 9:04 am

    @Linda – thank you so much for taking the time to write to me!!!

    I am really re-reading what you have said because it really resonated with me. He did text briefly last night.

    Today I saw him and he came over right away and said “Gosh, I didnt get to talk to you at all yesterday” like he was sort of upset about it – that felt good – and it also felt good that he was even aware of it – AND that he came right over.

    We talked about an hour.

    I decided not to talk about how I needed him last night. I am going to just marinate in it and see how I feel before I have ANOTHER “talk” with him. I feel like this whole last week has been a lot of emotional talks etc.

    I dont know- at one point I said something about how I loved that he said we would take care of each other and he nodded, but looked away…..I didnt like the feeling of that – it felt disconnected, like maybe he didnt want to think of the fact that he said that to me or something….it was too much like maybe he didnt mean it? I dont kow. I’m sure I”m reading into it.

    Anyway – I had a horrible night because of something my ex did and the bottom line is that I told him all about it today – and he is a great listener, so that felt awesome.

    But even though he is a great listener, he is not a great reassurer. If that makes sense.

    I just need a lot of reassurance right now – I feel very very vulnerable.

    Do I tell him this? Do I let him know I feel? Is it even healthy to feel this vulnerable?


  399.  #399ALA on March 28, 2013 at 9:05 am

    I love all the support Sirens give to each other. When something resonates with our own journey, freely giving and caring to each other.

  400.  #400ALA on March 28, 2013 at 9:11 am

    Syrena’s words feel flowing and poignant.

  401.  #401ALA on March 28, 2013 at 9:16 am

    “Do I tell him this? Do I let him know I feel? Is it even healthy to feel this vulnerable?”

    Could be your fears coming up, and wanting to control how he is with you.

    I hope other more experienced Sirens chime in here.

  402.  #402ALA on March 28, 2013 at 9:23 am

    I feel like I reached another level in my healing! I didn’t think of D first thing when I woke up. This feels huge!

    Then my thoughts went to all the mean, blaming things he said to me. How could he say those untrue things about me? Think I might need to chalk it all up as he is a narcissistic, mysogynist. I am a beautiful, complete, filled with love woman. And he’s an idiot for not seeing that.

  403.  #403IamHis on March 28, 2013 at 9:23 am

    I feel ignored and devastated. I feel like “I told you so” is being withheld from me because you all are compassionate.

    I feel so empty and sad in my heart.

    Love feels like manipulation.
    You have to do and say certain things in certain ways, or love won’t be there, or it’ll hang out for a while, then leave.

    I feel so confused.
    I have no idea “what I did wrong” besides leaning forward, but I would still be in the dark if I hadn’t leaned forward.

    It’s like that one woman on here who felt like stopping by to see the guy she was interested in, and he was with another woman.

    why am I so disposable?
    if i’m so dang loveable than why do I keep getting left by everyone, including myself?

    why did he try so hard and then leave me?

    did he see my insecurity, my rage, my impatience, and know?
    that i couldn’t handle myself or him or anyone else, for that matter?

    I feel really hollow and dry and trembly.
    My mouth is dry and hanging open.
    My head hurts, my chest hurts, my whole upper body hurts.
    My legs just feel numb, but I think they’re still there.

    I am beautiful, but I don’t mean a thing to you.
    Breathing hurts.
    in and out.
    I have to think about it, or else the pain overtakes me.

    What sucks is that doesn’t even feel as good as the first time I was left. I felt more sane then, somehow. I had more witnesses or something. I was told “No, you’re not crazy.” There was at least another woman who reacted towards me in negative ways that made sense to my crazy conspiracy theories.

    People cared more then or something.
    Or it was easier to see.
    or it was more shocking, so more devasting, so more easy to empathize with.

    it feels expecting and I feel like I don’t have support this time.
    I feel really alone.

    I want to feel everything and to get the pain over with, but it doesn’t work like that, does it?

    I remember thinking that I didn’t know how to grieve back then, and I don’t know how to grieve now, or how long it’s supposed to take.

  404.  #404IamHis on March 28, 2013 at 9:26 am

    I want to be a man. Masculine energy. Action-oriented. There’s things TO DO.

    You don’t have to RESPOND. Things are on YOUR time-table. You’re the chooser.

    Feeling so angry. but it doesn’t feel real, it feels fake, it feels like I’m watching a movie.

    or it feels like I’m desperately trying to feel something…anything…but I can’t.

  405.  #405ALA on March 28, 2013 at 9:27 am

    FW – I fell asleep thinking about your words. So meaningful to me! 🙂

  406.  #406IamHis on March 28, 2013 at 9:30 am

    I was a jerk to you.
    I can’t say that I’m not attracted to you.
    I don’t want you to hold a grudge against me.
    You are very honest.
    You shouldn’t leave angry.

    Screw you.

  407.  #407IamHis on March 28, 2013 at 9:31 am

    What I love and hate the most about him is how calm he is…

    I look like the crazy, raging, idiot and he’s calm.

  408.  #408IamHis on March 28, 2013 at 9:34 am

    “I didn’t know what you meant.”

    Later on…

    “I knew what you meant…”

    “I don’t know what you’re talking about…”

    “I know what you’re talking about…”

    Hi, I’m Jack CD. Insecure manipulative, caring, attentive friend-to-all-women liar.

  409.  #409IamHis on March 28, 2013 at 9:39 am

    Why do you always stare at me?
    You were staring at me a day ago and you just expect me not to respond when you’re staring at me like that?

    why so eager to figure me out?
    so you can play with me, have me struck your ego and body and then when you’ve had your thrill, leave me?

    I couldn’t figure out if you were a good person, or if my negative voices were just trying to make you into a jerk to protect me, but you were a jerk, you admit to being a jerk, but won’t expound, won’t apologize, just sit by me until I calm down and then walk me quickly home and YOU’RE the one who’s angry?

    You don’t get to be angry, I do.

  410.  #410ALA on March 28, 2013 at 9:44 am

    ((( IamHis )))

  411.  #411IamHis on March 28, 2013 at 9:44 am

    You’re just angry because I figured you out and called you out on it.

    You’re just angry because I’m one of the few women who will call you out on your crap and demand an explaination.

    I’m angry because you USED me and then left me.

    Used me to get attention for yourself from other women and men for that matter.

    Used me for your own personal power.

    You saw my power, and just had to steal some of it from me.

    Didn’t you?
    Didn’t you?

  412.  #412IamHis on March 28, 2013 at 9:51 am

    It’s like Taylor Swift and Harry Styles. She was so angry, and he just looked like this innocent little victim who had no idea what he did wrong or that he did anything wrong.

    Taylor swift and me, we have issues!

    Leaving someone isn’t “wrong.”
    Cheating on someone isn’t “wrong.”

    If nothing’s wrong, then nothing’s right.

    Right and wrong, they exist.

    Good and 3vil, they exist.

    and the good do 3vil things sometimes, and the 3vil do good things sometimes.

    I feel so confused.

  413.  #413IamHis on March 28, 2013 at 9:52 am

    Everybody has lines where they say “this is definitely bad” and “this is definitely good.”


    Your truth.
    My truth.

    Screw those, what is THE truth?

  414.  #414IamHis on March 28, 2013 at 9:55 am

    He’s the first guy who hasn’t ignored me. Most guys I’ve been interested in the past, they have these moments where they seemingly get angry out of no where and start ignoring me.

    With him, “I” was the one who started ignoring him, because “I” was the one who felt like she was losing her power.

    and that might be the most humiliating thing of all, to me.

    I feel like my heart was just a game to him.

  415.  #415IamHis on March 28, 2013 at 9:59 am

    I honestly didn’t know how to respond. I’ve always just felt panic and fear when a man made it obvious that he wanted me.

    Is that how they felt? Like their hearts were just a game to me?

    I didn’t mean to hurt them.

    I loved so many of them in so many different ways.

    I just always needed more.

    I’ve always felt like I’ve been starving for love. and when I finally do get it, I hoard it like food in a famine and don’t know how to share it, show it, or grow it.

  416.  #416IamHis on March 28, 2013 at 10:00 am

    Heck, even SMC ignored me.

  417.  #417IamHis on March 28, 2013 at 10:01 am

    I never thought I’d miss being intentionally ignored. At least it was intentional…

  418.  #418Femininewoman on March 28, 2013 at 10:04 am

    Thanks for saying that ALA. The inner work is what I find most fulfilling and rewarding. Most of the times we spend so much time wondering about what he’s saying, doing, and how we should we be to get him focussed and giving us what we want that we lose sight of how valuable we can be four ourselves.

  419.  #419Memulo on March 28, 2013 at 10:05 am

    Elsie, I don’t know. In my story with dumbcd I learned to accept the uncertainty and I was good about it, even too good as I think about it now. But do you think you can allow some uncertainty? Sometimes? The thing is that if one person wants out they will do it anyway, as we all know too well. Do you have to report to each other daily? Maybe not. Does he have to take care of your past wounds? Probably not. If you feel like you’re getting too little by all means you can talk to him. But you just talked a few days ago and it felt quite intense and hexsaid even more than what you hoped for? Maybe it’s time to let it be for a while? Go out with your children or girlfriends? Lots of questions;)

  420.  #420Femininewoman on March 28, 2013 at 10:10 am

    Iamhis sometimes your words suggest to me that nothing anyone says to you will be enough. Like you just want to stay in the spiral of your tailspin. You might slow down just a little to hear others words but you are more comfortable in the overanalyzing and arguing with yourself.

  421.  #421IamHis on March 28, 2013 at 10:14 am

    I feel angry, feminine woman. Whose words did I miss? I got a hug from ALA (which I appreciated, by the way) but are you talking about things that were said to me prior to this?

    Obviously i can’t take any advice I was given now that it’s over with.

    Maybe I’m just trying to learn whether i can trust what I think I perceive or not.

    which obviously, I can’t.

    and now I feel like a crazy person again…

  422.  #422IamHis on March 28, 2013 at 10:16 am

    I mean, is that seriously what you would want to hear in the depths of your pain?

  423.  #423Willow on March 28, 2013 at 10:16 am

    After reading Rori’s newsletter this morning I just feel confused. I want marriage. And I want to be asked, though I know for financial reasons a legal marriage is a bad idea until I’m done with school, and I have said that to him which now I think was also a bad idea. I know he wants marriage. And I know, based on what he has said, he wants marriage with me, but he’s not moving things forward. He hasn’t brought up the issue in quite awhile.

    I feel like it has been long enough to know whether he wants to make that commitment or not. I know he’s allowed to take as long as he wants… but for me, it’s long enough. I don’t feel like waiting any longer. I love him, I love being with him, he tells me almost every day how happy I make him and how much he loves his life with me. It feels good, but it makes me MORE confused — if he does, then WHY has he not asked me to marry him yet?

    I felt humiliated when my mom asked me a couple of months ago why he hasn’t asked me yet. That made me feel angry and insecure with him. I felt defensive.

    I don’t know what to do or what to say at this point. The going advice in these situations seems to be to open your options. I live with him and share a life with him. That’s not going to work. I can’t share a house with him and date other men. If I moved out, the relationship would be over. That’s not what I want. Not yet, anyway.

    I don’t know if this just my fears coming up or not. Many days, I feel indifferent towards marriage and just happy with the relationship and life that I have. Today is not one of those days. Today I feel led on and disappointed and I feel hurt that I’m not getting the commitment I want.

    Do I have a talk with him, tell him how I’m feeling? Even if I did, I don’t know that I’d know how to respond to the myriad of possible answers I’d get. I need a script here. I probably shouldn’t speculate about what he might say, but I keep thinking on them anyway.

    I’m meeting him for lunch in a few hours. What do I do?

  424.  #424nme008 on March 28, 2013 at 10:18 am

    I text XM back. Felt guilty as soon as I did it. I can lie and say I did it cause I didn’t want to be rude but I think I just wanted attention. I just said “hey, how have you been”…well now I’m in a bind he text back and said he’s been good and am I single now…….I don’t have an answer…..I feel like I am but I don’t KNOW anything. Clear cut lines a a big thing for me.

  425.  #425IamHis on March 28, 2013 at 10:20 am

    have you ever just wanted to know if you could trust what you think you perceive?

    obviously, you can’t trust perceptions.

  426.  #426Memulo on March 28, 2013 at 10:22 am

    FW, ‘nothing that people say will be enough’ – I am the queen of that! But I know it and I can’t change it. I can only forget what happened and it will happen eventually;) Maybe it is crazy in a way, but I’m so reasonable in so many ways that this one glitch should make me even more irresistible don’t you think;)

  427.  #427IamHis on March 28, 2013 at 10:22 am

    but other people saw it too.

    he just changed his mind, I guess.
    realized I wasn’t right for him.

    I want to change MY mind.
    I know he’s not right for me.
    I knew it all along, but I was trying to keep my heart open, because he was different and he kept coming around.

  428.  #428Indigo on March 28, 2013 at 10:23 am


    Things are seldom as they appear.

    It is so easy to feel that people leave you and abandon you, boy have I been there. But the truth is, people are sometimes thoughtless, and they have to walk their own path.


  429.  #429nme008 on March 28, 2013 at 10:23 am

    I’m sorry if I’m just over looking other posts and putting mine out there. I’m out an not at a computer, just wanted to put my thought out there since it just happened and will catch up later. Don’t wanna seem selfish… 🙂


  430.  #430Memulo on March 28, 2013 at 10:26 am

    Most people don’t think about it iamhis. Most people just want to feel safe and good. And you can try to experience it from that perspective as well.

  431.  #431IamHis on March 28, 2013 at 10:26 am

    what do you feel? Dominique kept asking me. Pay attention to the unspoken things.

    He treats me differently from anyone.

    and even now, I know he cares about me on some level.

    and that feels pathedic to say, because it’s what a rejected person would say, but it’s true.

    I’ve cared deeply about guys that I didn’t necessarily want to “be with.”

    so I guess there’s comfort in that…

  432.  #432Memulo on March 28, 2013 at 10:29 am

    Iamhis you’re lucky you KNOW he wasn’t right for you

  433.  #433Femininewoman on March 28, 2013 at 10:29 am

    There are times when I trust perceptions.

    Pain, Iamhis? Maybe I am callous. I dunno. I imagine Tuquoise in emotional turmoil because I imagine her world must feel like it is falling apart. I imagine a woman who is left pregnant bby herself might be in some kinda pain also. For a lot of our man stories I tend to now believe much of what happens is what we put ourselves through. So though sometimes it seem hard I just choose to stop. When reflected in the bigger scheme of things in my life I realice I am bigger and grander. Some things I can leave behind.

  434.  #434Indigo on March 28, 2013 at 10:29 am


    I would ENJOY the attention, it is perfectly natural given what you have been through and what you are feeling.

    If it were me, and he asked if I was single, I would put a smiley emoticon face and say something like, “ooh, it feels nice to be asked that 🙂 I kind of am 😉 ”

    Have been biting my “tongue” so to speak to keep from saying this to you, but I think M is treating you in a very neglectful manner, and I would take my attention as much off him as I could, and drop him even.


  435.  #435Linda on March 28, 2013 at 10:30 am

    398 Elsie

    I am glad you could glean somthing from that post…sorry it was so messed up and out of order in two parts.

    I am glad you heard from him. It does feel relieving. I went/still go thru that sometimes. My goal was to not ride that rollercoaster any longer. By that I mean too no longer focus on him, wondering why he had not contacted… and to feel good in the presence and absence of receiving communication. The deeper I press in the more stuff and triggers I work/worked thru.

    It is easy to feel great when we hear from them but awesome to feel it even when we dont! It is much easier to type than to do but I have acheived some success with it and am determined for it to increase. I dont want to place my value or wellness on whether a man contacts me or not ever again. By the way, if I dont get what I need from a relationship/man… I start to feel bored and uninterested, instead of piney or sad now. It feels wonderful !!

    For me, I usually sit on my feelings until I understand what is really going on inside me. When I am sure then I speak when the opportunity presents itself and it always does. Timing I have found is important. So spending time knowing what I want beforehand makes it easier for me to share when it is the right time.

    I have made a shift… I dont look for reassurance from a man but instead I look to myself for that… it is a vibe shifter and before I knew it he was giving what I need without effort. I dont feel qualified to tell you what you should or should not share. FEELING vunerable is scary… if I feel like that then I am not centered in myself. BEING vunerable is different it is open and is… centered and healthy and confident. It feels totally different to me.

  436.  #436IamHis on March 28, 2013 at 10:31 am

    @428 Indigo – Thank you. I think I feel angry because I could feel my whole body not wanting to let him in, but I was practicing Rori’s tools, and I thought maybe with Rori’s tools I might have a chance.

    I broke Rori’s rules by leaning forward.

    but I used more of them than I ever have with anyone, and they WORKED with him.

    No one else that I tried them on got the kind of response that it got with him.

    and now that word, “response” is triggering me…

    I DID something, in a way…


    No, I just RESPONDED, where as normally, I clam up, shut down, and run away when I find myself getting interested…

    I abandon before I can get abadoned…

    Need to keep practicing, keep letting guys go when they want to go, be Flypaper, get comfortable with myself…

    starting to feel better…

  437.  #437IamHis on March 28, 2013 at 10:34 am

    @432 Memulo – thank you, you’re absolutely right.

    @433 Feminine woman – Thank you for this. Perspective is always helpful. Just venting. and venting helped me get the perspective I needed.

    so there’s that.

    didn’t mean to be callous to the “real pain” of others.

  438.  #438Femininewoman on March 28, 2013 at 10:38 am

    Memulo that is just a pattern, maybe a thought. Anything can change. You can set an intention and consciously choose to decide it is enough for you. It is a reason why some men stop saying “I love you” and stop complementing women. I have male friends who tell me they will never go down certain roads again because the women they deal with just don’t get it. Believe me awareness can help change anything.

  439.  #439Femininewoman on March 28, 2013 at 10:41 am

    I know you don’t Iamhis. The big picture view can help us change our perceptions. Especially when we can try to walk in others shoes and mentally switch places with them.

  440.  #440Femininewoman on March 28, 2013 at 10:44 am

    I remember Rori talking on Reconnect about being on the floor in agony about her situation and a ball of fur distracted her for a minute. In that minute she said she switched to giggles. Even in the midst of our “pain” we can choose to switch our focus and realize that we do have choices. We can’t achieve anything in life putting ourselves through mental pain.

  441.  #441Femininewoman on March 28, 2013 at 10:45 am

    Sorry Iamhis. I am developing new perceptions about pain and hurt.

  442.  #442Femininewoman on March 28, 2013 at 10:51 am

    Put HIM in the friend zone!

    If it were me, I’d tell him I assume he’s gay, or no longer attracted to me, and that that might work as a friendship later on, but for now, it feels too awful

    Then I’d cry and move on


  443.  #443MovingMagic on March 28, 2013 at 10:51 am

    What happens when we choose (yes Choose) to not go down that dark, all too familiar road? How different does it feel when we consciously choose something else? -Breaking patterns.

  444.  #444seahorse on March 28, 2013 at 11:01 am

    433, 439 fw

    Hello beautiful sirens. I have been reading since 2/11 and this is my first post. Thank you all for being normal. It has been a wild ride for the last two years, sometimes dark, sometimes shiny and bubbly, and through it all I read the blog and sent many prayers of love and support to all.

    FW, those are the thoughts that changed my way of interacting with the world…………on most days;) Sometimes I fall off my horse and gotta get back on after dusting off and having a laugh at myself good- naturedly for forgetting to see the forest, not just the trees. Or sometimes having to see the tree and not the forest.(insert me laughing) Just depends I suppose on the situation and using the tools. I wanted to say how great it feels to read your words.Thank you FW

  445.  #445ALA on March 28, 2013 at 11:02 am

    “How different does it feel when we consciously choose something else? ”

    Much, MUCH better!

    I feel confused though. We’re s’pose to FEEL our feelings and then consciously choose something else? Where do you draw the line about when enough feeling has happened and you can choose something else?

    I kinda went to some pretty dark places recently. Things feel better today. Is it all just part of the healing process of the journey? …Feel, feel, feel… and then CHOOSE?

  446.  #446seahorse on March 28, 2013 at 11:04 am

    oops………. Feb. of 2011:)

  447.  #447Femininewoman on March 28, 2013 at 11:08 am

    I believe so ALA. When we realize that we can choose, that experience can be so uplifting and freeing. Mainly because we are mostly so afraid of our emotions. We at times believe they are going to overwhelm us. I don’t know that there is a need to draw a line. I choose depending on where I am at and what needs my attention. There are times when I sit with it longer than others but for me I look for opportunities where I can celebrate and say “Yayy I can feel that”.

  448.  #448IamHis on March 28, 2013 at 11:12 am

    @Feminine Woman – awww, it’s okay. The perspective was good for me. and yes, pain, wow. I know I don’t know the depths of it. I just know my own cushy little pain bubble, which is probably more like slight discomfort compared to what others go through, have gone through…

  449.  #449ALA on March 28, 2013 at 11:16 am

    “Yayy I can feel that”.

    … and that’s when the shift happens to choose. It’s all so flowing in and out continuously evolving. I think I get it. Yay!!

  450.  #450IamHis on March 28, 2013 at 11:18 am

    I feel so sad and quiet. It’s too quiet.

  451.  #451Femininewoman on March 28, 2013 at 11:33 am

    It’s in the quiet that we can truly connect to ourselves, our heart. To Go!d

  452.  #452IamHis on March 28, 2013 at 11:43 am

    I love G0D.

  453.  #453IamHis on March 28, 2013 at 12:14 pm

    I still feel so angry that he was so angry.

    Yes, I am going to confront you and speak my feelings about your crappy behavior.

    Yes, I am hurting, and yes your behavior contributed to it.

    awww, poor you.

    You deserve to see me hurting and unhappy, because yes, you contributed to it.

    Be more careful next time.

  454.  #454IamHis on March 28, 2013 at 12:28 pm

    I know you can’t say you’re not attracted to me, because you are, and you stare at me all the time, but stop.

    Pretend like I’m Medusa, and you’ll turn to stone if you dare catch a glimpse.

    You are stone to me.

    Hard, cold, and in the way of beautiful, living, breathing, feeling creatures like me.

  455.  #455IamHis on March 28, 2013 at 12:44 pm

    I feel embarrassed. Should save this stuff for my journal. Just want to feel good again.

  456.  #456Elsie on March 28, 2013 at 12:53 pm

    OK – hi all….

    Saw him today – everything is sort of ok. I just dont feel CONNECTED to him. We had a nice sort of talk this morning, nothing really … ugh. I just like it when there is a wink and a nod towards the fact that we are close, and it was just small talk sort of. And then I saw him again later this afternoon – same thing. It was ok…..I dont know. Then we got into a discussion about families and how he thinks its crazy when people bring a significant other to their family because they are always bored, and I got the hint that he wouldnt want to come to my family stuff and frankly that I probably wouldnt be invited to his famiy stuff – his family lives like 10 hours away – but anyway – the point is that Ididnt really like that – I dont know.

    Anyway – today has not been a great day for me with him. And after being so close and emotionally etc. close. this day has been hard for me.

    PLUS – I dont think I will see him for the next three days. Ugh.

    I dont know. I’m not feeling good about this. I feel very very distant and detached from him.


  457.  #457Mercedes on March 28, 2013 at 12:56 pm

    IamHis: You told me something on Monday that I wish you could still apply today:

    “Don’t want to think about him too much, though.
    Have to keep my own fabulous life going full throttle!”

    I’m so sorry you’re hurting. The wrong guy isn’t worth this much pain…

    Much Love,

  458.  #458Mercedes on March 28, 2013 at 12:59 pm

    Elsie: It’s very, very normal for a man to pull away a little after some truly emotional contact with a woman. It can be very exhausting to them until they get used to it. It can be so unsettling that they need some time to let it sink in. Do what makes you happy so your vibe stays open and fun. Let him be distant if he needs to be but your panic will be felt so I advise to just find something to make you happy and be open to the love…

    Much Love,

  459.  #459Veronica on March 28, 2013 at 1:04 pm

    IamHis – I hear you, and sending you a hug

    Indigo – 428 : Oh my I’ve been needing to hear this. Thank you. Those words calm me down a whole lot and kind of releases me from getting uptight about that (which I so often do).

    Moving Magic – 443: Copied and pasted – thank you!

    Oh gosh I felt pretty stuck today. I definitely have a lot of fear around being abandoned. My thoughts and feelings have been skirting around that for a very long time. It’s kind of sad that that makes me have to shrink my being to operate like that. I feel compassion for myself. I feel I want to be kind to myself – offer a hand to my huddled self, invite myself to a kinder way of being.
    Thank goodness BeautifulMan and I only communicate via e-mail now because I actually have something with which I can potentially separate my issues from what’s going on with us. I was convinced he was abandoning me, although in a very nice way. But our e-mail speaks differently: he’s assured me that it’s not his aim to hurt me, that he is still interested with what’s going on with me, that he doesn’t bear me any ill will because we’re apart (Gosh he’s beautiful, isn’t he? – I’m not expecting anything by saying this, it’s just admiration, which is a shift for me). But I really don’t want to fall into being hopeful about us reconnecting romantically. I’ve taken a bit of space i.e. keeping out of contact, to process things a bit more and get a bit more of myself showing up. I’m feeling worried that I’ll slip into becoming hopeful and that I’ll give up on working through abandonment stuff. Or whatever else pitches up.

  460.  #460IamHis on March 28, 2013 at 1:07 pm

    @455 Mercedes – You are right. Thank you. I’m just really sleep-deprived and emotional and I’ve lost a friend to death this week too, so maybe my freaking out over this other thing is a coping mechanism too.

    That sounds lame.

    Everything sounds lame.

  461.  #461IamHis on March 28, 2013 at 1:08 pm

    thank you, Veronica. ((hugs))

  462.  #462Elsie on March 28, 2013 at 1:09 pm

    @Mercedes – I have heard this before in a lot of books. Are you SURE about this? Because I feel like its just an excuse. Or that I’m just making it up to make myself feel better.

    I almost had a “TALK” with him today about my needs, etc. and about this, but I decided against it, I”m glad I did.

    He did pop over right away in the morning to say hi and chat so I know he wants to stay connected.

    He had an opportunity to come over and hang out last night – I know he did – but he didnt take it.

    That made me feel rejected. I never offered for him to come over, I just know that he was out running errands and at the mall, and I know he could have stopped by but he didnt ask to – and I didnt want to ask because that would feel like leaning in – so nothing happened, and now I feel rejected.

    Thats really it – I feel like this is the first time in SO long (and I mean SO long) like over a decade that I have let anyone get back into my life, and I feel rejected right now because he could have come over and didnt.

    And he didnt really chit chat text with me last night.

    And he didnt really “connect” with me today.

    So our intense emotional time was on Sunday afternoon/evening. And since then there has been no REAL emotional connection.

    I havent had it in a really long time and I crave it now that I’ve had a taste of it.

    I really really really want to spend time with him.

    I feel like I”m having to lean back and do all these things that sort of feel against my nature. I love the wayit feels when I give him that space and he fills it – its just that its really hard for me.

    And I didnt like the comments about family and how he wouldnt want to maybe do things with my family and there was an insinuation that he might not ever invite me out to his family….I don tknow.

    We are very different as far as that goes.

    I’m just not left with good feelings here…..which is just a bit heartbreaking and it feels like I’m being rejected because we were in such sync earlier this week.


  463.  #463Femininewoman on March 28, 2013 at 1:10 pm

    Willow – our families, our parents can cause us to question our relationships, our partners. I would encourage you to go back to how you felt in the relationship before your mom asked you that question. That is where I would start before even considering asking him any question about the relationship. If you were happy then you want to find that girl again. That to me would be the best place to start.

  464.  #464IamHis on March 28, 2013 at 1:13 pm

    thought this was interesting:

    “You really can’t see or feel anyone else. The new suitors fall short because of who they aren’t–they aren’t your ex. (or Imaginary Ex, as the case may be) They only make you miss your ex more. New potential sources of love and security seem to lack that special appeal. They remain romantically invisible because your ex dominates your attenton.”

    – The Journey From Heartbreak to Connection, Susan Anderson

  465.  #465Elsie on March 28, 2013 at 1:18 pm

    Plus, I didnt even get an “hey, you look nice today” and I”m wearing one of his favorite outfits.

    I didnt get one sideways sweet glance. Nothing to connect me with him. Nothing to show that there was something special between us.

    In fact, all I got was some sort of bizarre conversation about how I guess I’m never going to be invited to his family’s house….whatever

    I’m pretty close to shutting down here about this. I am not to the point that I”m picking up my proverbial sword but wow, I’m not happy right now.

    I feel like last week was so emotional, and I just need reassurance that he really isnt going to break my heart…..just like he promised.

    I feel like this disconnect is really hard on me right now.

    I was so vulnerable emotionally, physically, everything last week – more so than I’ve been in a decade, and now I feel sort of abandoned and rejected…….

    How do I tell him that I want to be near him and need to spend time with him espeically right now when I feel vulnerable and need to be reassured that we are ok? I just dont need that forever, but I think I will need it for a while…..ugh I hate feeling like this – and I love it when he steps up for me. I just need him to step up for me right now. Ugh.

    I’m so not happy right now.

  466.  #466Mercedes on March 28, 2013 at 1:22 pm

    Elsie – ” I have heard this before in a lot of books. Are you SURE about this? ” – I’m not sure that’s what’s going on with him but I am POSITIVE it is normal. It could be “just an excuse” but whatever it is, it really does happen. In my experience, it happens less and less as men feel more and more safe with a woman and her emotions.

    “So our intense emotional time was on Sunday afternoon/evening. And since then there has been no REAL emotional connection.

    I havent had it in a really long time and I crave it now that I’ve had a taste of it.” – And he probably hasn’t had it in a really long time either and most likely needs a break from it right now.

    “And I didnt like the comments about family and how he wouldnt want to maybe do things with my family and there was an insinuation that he might not ever invite me out to his family” – Do you think it’s possible you’re reading a lot into this? It sounds like he made an off hand comment and you’ve applied it to him hinting that he will never take you to meet his family. That feels a bit like you’re putting words in his mouth. Saying people get bored at those events, in my opinion is not “an insinuation that he might not ever invite me out to his family”. It could mean that but I don’t think that’s what he said.

    Do you remember how freaked out you were when he said something about never getting married again? He didn’t mean anything NEAR what you imagined he meant.

    I personally think he is feeling a bit overwhelmed with all this right now. You’ve had some really great breakthroughs and changes here but remember, he’s had to go through all of that with you. He might be a little tired right now. If so, I don’t think that’s a reflection on you at all…it’s just a man needing some space.

    I would love to see you relax and let life unfold one minute at a time rather than fill you up minute by minute with anxiety. 🙂 Life will work out beautifully if we let it…

    Much Love,

  467.  #467IamHis on March 28, 2013 at 1:23 pm


    “abandoholism is similar to other -aholisms, but instead of being addicted to a substance, you’re addicted to the emotional drama of heartbreak. So you pursue unavailable partners to keep the romantic intensity going and to keep your body’s love chemicals flowing.”

    explains why I keep talking about how the pain doesn’t feel as good this time…

    ew, I’m disgusting myself…

  468.  #468IamHis on March 28, 2013 at 1:27 pm

    “When someone comes along who wants to be with them, this suitor seems too easy to get to arouse that required level of insecurity they’ve come to associate with love. If they can’t feel those yearing, lovesick sensations, they aren’t feeling anything. So they keep pursuing unavailable partners who bring out craving, pursuing feelings.”

  469.  #469Femininewoman on March 28, 2013 at 1:30 pm

    Veronica it is my belief that if we claim to be taking space and still communicating through email, we really are not taking space. I loved what you said about hope and it reminded me of something I heard recently. How hope is a powerful emotion that could help us build the lives we want. I am not so sure that being hopeful is so bad. It is how we use it to attach ourselves to a particular person or goal rather than to our real dreams of a great relationship. I say let go of the man in your mind but cherish to hopes and desires of your heart. I feel really moved by your words.

  470.  #470Femininewoman on March 28, 2013 at 1:32 pm

    Really eye opening, Iamhis.

  471.  #471Elsie on March 28, 2013 at 1:32 pm

    @Mercedes – As per usual you are coming to my rescue. Thank you for taking the time.

    I dont know if he needs a break. I have seen him every day since then but only bc of where we work which is near my building. Anyway – the point is that I havent had one significant text or antyhing after the morning of that night. Mon. morning was good – we talked and it was a definite connection after the afternoon and evening we spent together on Sunday. So that was good.

    Mon. we were both exhausted. Fair enough.

    Tues…..ummm. I dont know. I guess he didnt feel like texting? I dont know.

    Wed. I had meetings off and on all day and he had to be with clients so we didnt get to talk a lot but again no real texting at night.

    And here we are today. Again, nothing that feels intimate and close.

    I dont understand and maybe you can help me. How do you have that emotional and physical of a connection and not want it again?

    DONT GUYS USUALLY WANT THAT AGAIN? Ugh. I feel rejected because he hasnt made a time for us to get together again.

    As far as his family – yes, I COULD be reading into that – I will give you that. It just didnt feel overwhelmingly good. I can tell you that.

    You said..I personally think he is feeling a bit overwhelmed with all this right now. You’ve had some really great breakthroughs and changes here but remember, he’s had to go through all of that with you. He might be a little tired right now. If so, I don’t think that’s a reflection on you at all…it’s just a man needing some space.

    I hope you are right. I’m scared I trusted someone and I shouldnt have. Im scared that he lied when he said that he would try to never break my heart. I’m scared that he lied when he said he promised I dont need to be scared.

    I’m just scared because I trusted someone and now I feel very very vulnerable.

  472.  #472Elsie on March 28, 2013 at 1:35 pm

    Wow. And he just left without saying goodbye. I probably wont see him until Monday because its Easter weekend.

    Wow. What do you say to THAT?!

    Ugh. I’m sick to my stomach at this point.

    What if I trusted the wrong guy?

  473.  #473Linda G on March 28, 2013 at 1:37 pm


    “abandoholism is similar to other -aholisms, but instead of being addicted to a substance, you’re addicted to the emotional drama of heartbreak. So you pursue unavailable partners to keep the romantic intensity going and to keep your body’s love chemicals flowing.”

    It’s staying with the familiar, no matter how painful. I am the same.

    It’s a waste of time and energy

  474.  #474Linda G on March 28, 2013 at 1:41 pm

    The four rules:
    You don’t have to trust a guy, you have to trust yourself, knowing your own boundaries; not casting pearls before swine

  475.  #475Femininewoman on March 28, 2013 at 1:48 pm

    When we are focussed on one man, abandoning ourselves and looking to him to fulfill our needs we tell ourselves all kinds of stories and set ourselves up for disappointment.

  476.  #476Memulo on March 28, 2013 at 1:50 pm

    Elsie, one thing I can say about my cd is that I NEVER had to wonder. He was always there one way or another.

    Also, being just recently the emotionally unavailable one, I told him all this stuff about being too early to meet his mom and such, but if it were dumbed I’d run to meet his family;) Only I was never invited.

    Really, he left without making weekend plans with you? Maybe he still will? Can you see yourself not being available next time he wants to talk?
    Why did he not marry the mother of his 3 kids?

  477.  #477Mercedes on March 28, 2013 at 1:52 pm

    “How do you have that emotional and physical of a connection and not want it again? DONT GUYS USUALLY WANT THAT AGAIN? Ugh. I feel rejected because he hasnt made a time for us to get together again.” – In my experience, they DO want it again but not NEAR as quickly or as often as we do. As I said though, from my own relationship, I can attest to the fact that J needs that pull back time a lot less than he used to and he’s reached a place where intimate connections are just as important to him as they are to me. And we’ve been together for 8 years. He wasn’t like that in the first year, two, three…

    “Wow. And he just left without saying goodbye. I probably wont see him until Monday because its Easter weekend. Wow. What do you say to THAT?!” – I would say it sounds like he needs some space and he needs to feel that you are fine and happy and secure and the woman he fell in love with – even when he isn’t around. He doesn’t want to feel you being needy. He might even be wondering if all that emotion is something that will happen with you all the time. If he’s not used to this, he’ll be a little unsettled. That will change.

    And ALL of that is you and me getting into his head and deciding what he’s thinking and feeling. Feels a bit unfair to me. If you are this desperate to know “why” he’s not connecting with you right now, maybe you could ask him. He’s the only one who really knows.

    “What if I trusted the wrong guy?” – Then you will be in the same boat that probably every woman on the planet was in at one time or another and you will live through it and we’ll be here to support you and we’ll be here when you find the right guy.

    I think your panic is a bit premature though…he hasn’t said or done anything to indicate to you that he is the wrong guy and you shouldn’t have trusted him. He’s taking some space right now or he’s busy or he’s preoccupied or he’s spaced out or he….whatever. You’re deciding what it all means and you’re deciding why he’s doing it. I think you should maybe allow HIM to decide…

    Much Love,

  478.  #478IamHis on March 28, 2013 at 1:53 pm

    Rori has talked about various types of relationship addictions, but somehow that above quote like NAILED it and helped me to really see myself in it.

  479.  #479Mercedes on March 28, 2013 at 1:54 pm

    FW: “When we are focused on one man, abandoning ourselves and looking to him to fulfill our needs we tell ourselves all kinds of stories and set ourselves up for disappointment.” – ABSOLUTELY!!!!!

    Much Love,