When To Call, Text Or Email Back – And When You’re Being “Cold” Instead Of “Warm”

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glass-ballHere’s a great question from Ellen about “words”:

Hi Rori

I came up with a thought lately. It would be interesting to hear also your thoughts on the impact of friends and advice on relationships we get. How to handle other people’s opinions and advice.

For example, I have been circular dating now and you know it has been going quite well! I am seeing one guy a bit more, mainly because he asks more and ‘works harder’ as I would call it, combined with the fact that I do feel very attracted to him. This is like the natural selection that happens, right!? ..

Last week we had a great dinner together on Wednesday. On Thursday I was out with a friend and he asked me where we are. I told him the bar, but by the time he was on his way there with his friend, we were heading out.

He called and suggested I let my friend go home and stay there. I would have had to wait 20minutes on my own, so I said ‘bad timing, it would have felt really nice to see u again, but I’m not waiting. I’m tired as well. So maybe next time!’ And he was quite unhappy about it.

Then on Friday he didn’t text and my friend started asking about him. I said I haven’t heard anything. She insisted that I contact him since I’d already blown him off the day before (which I didn’t, I was just not out anymore and we had no plans to meet up until he texted) and that he ‘needs some confirmation, too’. I said no. And she didn’t get why..

Then he called my mobile phone Friday evening but I didn’t hear it. I didn’t call back, and again my friends were telling me to call or text him to see what’s up. I said no, if he wants to talk, he’ll text or call again. I didn’t think about it all weekend until they started asking again. Wondering why I have this ‘tight-ass approach’ not to initiate contact.

And rori, it’s getting to me. I AM wondering if I should text him since he did call last and I didn’t pick up. I feel good about this guy though, and I’m kind of on the wave of ‘he’ll be back’.. But a part of me is worried he met someone new that is giving him more attention, and my attitude may be working against me..

What do you think? And have you ever done a class on how to handle the pressure from girlfriend advice?

My friends are great. I don’t want to put them in a bad light, but I have a hard time sharing my way with men with them.. Do you know what I mean?

Best, Ellen

My Answer:

Ellen – Since a text is sort of like a message – and can be “returned” as a voice message can be (depending on what he says) – what did he say in the text on Friday night!

Also – I could help you “tweak” the text you sent back to him:

“”oooo – that would feel so great, and I feel so disappointed, but I’m feeling exhausted and on my way home. I’m already looking forward to seeing you…Ellen

When you started out with “bad timing” – you were making him WRONG!!

Just some small tweaks to keep you from coming across as “cold” – by the way, being “cold” is a problem only in THIS WAY: Many, many men like “cold” women – but they’re the WRONG MEN!

They’re the uncommitable, the cold, the scared, the puppy-dogs – not the men you want.

They want the woman to keep the distance. What YOU want is a man who wants a WARM woman, who knows how to maintain the space between them for maximum emotional closeness and thrills).

And, yes, depending on what he texted you – you can and might do well texting him “back.”

If it feels like a RESPONSE – then calling or texting or emailing “back” is the way to go.

Love, Rori

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401 Comments

  1.  #1Femininewoman on May 9, 2013 at 7:18 am

    aaaaahh



  2.  #2Olivia on May 9, 2013 at 7:32 am

    Gah! I love this post. It makes me feel so good. When I dated my current BF two years ago, things faded out. He was being “game playing-y”, so was I, and he tells me my vibe has totally changed since then. Part of the reason he faded away was because he didn’t feel comfortable with this nervous, cold, me. Trying so hard to be cool and together. Brrr. I was insecure about it because I thought if he did the fade out once, he may do it again…Two years later we reconnected and I had been doing therapy and meditation in the interim and my vibe was different and he told me so. THEN I found Rori and things have been ball-rolling-forward ever since. So the fact that he did the fade out and didn’t want the “cool-cold” me is a GOOD sign. Rori – wondering if you have any thoughts on the pushy girlfriends part of the question…



  3.  #3Femininewoman on May 9, 2013 at 7:36 am

    ooh my!!

    What an article:-
    http://blog.beirresistible.com/let-me-love-you/#more-184

    Let Me Love You

    Here’s why. When you focus too much on yourself, you kill the most beautiful part of your presence.

    When I use the term “presence” I am referring to the experience of the other person. I am referring to the experience a man has of being in your presence.



  4.  #4Linda on May 9, 2013 at 7:52 am

    I LOVE the tweek on the response. The first response though truthful had a real bite to it. The second tweeked response was just a truthful but easy to read. It felt open and warm.

    Point taken!



  5.  #5Linda on May 9, 2013 at 7:57 am

    FavoriteCD was re- telling a conversation that he had had with his mom the other day where he described me as the “kindest, friendly, warm woman he had ever known” …. I told him that feels really good to hear.

    I must be doing something right in the middle of navigating thru my relationship with him. YEAH!



  6.  #6fl on May 9, 2013 at 7:59 am

    what does it mean when a guy you saw once a week, ring you , you dont answer then he stops calling , disapears for a month then you phone him and he doesnt pick up within 3 signlas but phones you back straight away , is curious about you and then phone has been quiet for a week now already…if he wasn’t itnerested any mroe then why phone back and even say at the end he’d talk later ?!



  7.  #7Lynn on May 9, 2013 at 9:38 am

    I have met someone online. This is new to me so kind of learning as I go. I felt like we connected on intellectual and emotional level. I t seem to happen very quickly. He asked if I would be his beloved woman. I realized I made a big error in not letting him know I’m an amputee right away and feel I’ve inadvertently been dishonest. I’m stymied at how to deal with this. Any advice?



  8.  #8Dancing Siren on May 9, 2013 at 9:58 am

    Just riffing out some tightness…

    I’m feeling URGHHH inside right now.

    Non real reason.

    Just feeling like a ball or GRUUUGHGH.

    Wishing that stuff would just happen and QUICKER! Always want quicker, and why is that? Just noticing.

    Feeling tired from leaning forward energy 🙁

    Catching myself.

    It’s hard sometimes finding the balance, between leaning back / enjoying and reaching for my goals…

    Hard to switch from masc energy to fem and back.

    Hard when I am feeling lean forward and he is quiet… when I want him to take the lead, make great suggestions, work out the challenges and come up with exciting plans.

    And he doesn’t… and I feel frustrated.

    And tired.

    Not his fault.

    No ones fault.

    He is a quiet sort of a man.

    But I feel awkward and want to fill the space…. better to hold it I know… harder though.

    Must remember to breath, slow down!

    Everything is fine. There is no rush.

    And yet I feel excited. I want to move forward… I LOVE that energy, that excitement.

    Maybe I can do it though my work.

    I wish he knew how tired it makes me feel making all these plans on my own.

    He is happy to just go along with what I want, and that doesn’t feel right.

    It would feel good to create some space.

    Maybe I can just lean back.

    Maybe I can do that.

    I feel a bit tired.

    A bit heavy arms… and shoulder.

    and tight head.

    And I feel ok.



  9.  #9Shar Lean Way Back on May 9, 2013 at 10:09 am

    Steffany, from the previous thread ….
    I don’t think Rori understood that you were married to this man. Your original post made it sound like you were living together. I wonder if her advice would have been different?
    Was he like this when you married him? Is he taking medication? Those types of meds can sometimes inhibit libido.
    Are you familiar with Rori’s work? Feeling messages, feminine and masculine energy? It may not help in your situation with a man that has these types issues however, “correcting his behavior” would definantely go against what she teaches. If not please start by getting her ebook. It is very inexpensive.



  10.  #10Dancing Siren on May 9, 2013 at 10:25 am

    Hmmm actually feeling really angry.

    And resentful.

    Hmph.

    So far I am the one coming up with all the ideas… to make our dreams / plans come true.

    We want to travel… we want to get married.

    I am the one sourcing venues… coming up with ideas to make extra money… etc ect.

    I am not saying he doesn’t do anything… he works hard…

    And he just doesn’t think to do anything DIFFERENT!

    Urgh.

    I know taking the lead won’t help here.

    what happens if I drop the ball?

    I feel anxiety about that.

    ie: we could lose our venue / dates for wedding… stuff won’t happen… we will get stuck in the grind again.

    I reckon need to drop the ball though

    Breathing out now.

    OK, let’s start with a small drop… forget about this for now and go to Zumba.

    OK.



  11.  #11Mel on May 9, 2013 at 10:37 am

    Dancing Siren,

    Maybe he doesn’t know you need help? Sometimes with wedding-y things, guys think that it’s stuff GIRLS love to do…

    He thinks: She’s got this covered… she’s a GIRL… she’s been planning this day since she was three! I want her to be happy, so I’m just going to go along with whatever she wants… I mean, I just love her to bits and the actual marriage is what’s important to me… all this extraneous stuff, not so important… But it IS important to her, so I’m just going to let her go with it. 🙂

    Maybe you just need to be like: I feel soooo low on energy baby. I feel so excited for this wedding, but I don’t know how to make it all happen. I feel pulled in all directions, and I just want to feel all light and airy about this. I feel like I might be in over my head here and I need to be rescued. Can you save me baby?

    And then, when he asks what he can do, give him some SPECIFIC problems he can solve for you and let him do it.

    Big hugs. 🙂



  12.  #12Indigo on May 9, 2013 at 11:37 am

    I really love this post by Rori.

    It is so easy to forget that warmth is the one thing that connects us to others.

    For me, it’s all about confidence. When you feel free to express your warmth because you know it’s safe with you, and you can pull back any time you need to because you trust your boundaries and your inner guidance.



  13.  #13Indigo on May 9, 2013 at 11:42 am

    I have dinner date with the guy from Sunday tomorrow night. He is taking me to a prawn restaurant.

    I am amazed really. And yet not so much. He texted me today to find out how my day was going and to get my feelings on the restaurant. I replied. And then he tried to set up plans via text, and I replied simply “Hey, I prefer to make plans over the phone” and he called me a short while later, apologizing that he hadn’t called the last 2 days, and saying that he had meant to call last night.

    I simply gushed how nice it was to hear from him and said I hadn’t noticed because I had been too busy.

    I am proud of myself for taking the time to assess my boundaries this early on.



  14.  #14Turquoise on May 9, 2013 at 1:06 pm

    Hang in there Dancing Siren. I agree with Mel though… I bet he hasn’t even thought about helping, figuring it’s your thing! How are things other than that?

    It feels scary to me to think about really making a life long commitment to one man. To think about forever. I hope if it does ever happen to me, I can’t imagine my life without him.

    Right now, I’d just like some low key fun… meet new people, enjoy my summer. See what comes about!



  15.  #15Dancing Siren on May 9, 2013 at 1:14 pm

    Hello Mel

    🙂

    Yes, that sounds / feels good, doable re the wedding-y things. I want to compose an e-mail for all our friends and family kinda letting them all know in one swoop how we would like it to be.

    We actually want to keep it really simple. I am one of those girls that actually doesn’t want all the fuss! I just want a simple wedding and it is everyone else who is getting carried away. I got upset last night because I felt overwhelmed and I just don’t want it to go like that…

    I really want him to ‘tell’ them and help me create some boundaries.

    And the thing that feels even more frustrating right now is the travel plans. The thing we are short of is money. We have already made great leaps and bounds and paid off lots of debt, started saving. and there is still a long way to go yet before we can leave.

    I am all up for really going for it, selling all our stuff, working hard to save and perhaps coming up with some other ideas for saving money and earning more.

    However he is more a plod along at a steady pace kind of guy. I am the passionate one with my head in the clouds who gets a bee in her bonnet, and he is the grounded one.

    I feel impatient.

    I have so many ideas for making it happen, and when I try and share I just feel like I get NOTHING back.

    He definitely wants to travel too and he would like to go as soon as we can, however he is a person who is very much grounded in ‘reality’ whereas I tend to think outside of the box, problem solve and believe in the law of attraction!

    Trouble is when I am doing this I am totally masc energy!

    Recently I have tried sharing how frustrated I feel about how long it could take us, and how excited I feel to travel. Also how I really don’t want to spend another winter here. Not to be melodromatic and this winter felt REALLY HARD to me. I don’t like the cold and the dark, esp when I am out in the evenings to teach. And it’s expensive here in winter. I LONG for a warmer climate and a slower, happier pace of life. I long to travel again.

    However when I have shared this I have ended up slipping into masc energy, leaning forward, wanting something. And his answer is that we can’t do it any quicker. And this just made me feel stressed.

    I am finding it hard to accept his no when I believe that it is all out there for the taking if we just think outside the box and reach a little further.

    And I feel tired of coming up with all the ideas and driving forward.

    Perhaps it is really for me to practice leaning back?

    Accepting what it.



  16.  #16Dancing Siren on May 9, 2013 at 1:18 pm

    Hello Turquise,

    Yes generally speaking things are REALLY good

    🙂

    We are lucky.

    And yes sometimes I feel scared about the commitment. I have found myself ‘acting up’ a bit a couple of times, unconsciously creating drama, based in fear, and I have managed to catch myself fairly quickly. He knows I do this sometimes and I know it can be damaging to a relationship and so gently trying to keep bringing it back to me.

    He is lucky to have me and I am lucky to have a man who loves me so much.

    feeling quite blessed and happy with some fear / stuff coming up for me too, which I understand happens when you get into this kind of deep relationship.

    I think there is some healing going on too…. inside me.



  17.  #17Dancing Siren on May 9, 2013 at 1:19 pm

    Turquoise,

    Sounds nice about enjoying your summer.

    It sounds light and airy

    🙂



  18.  #18Turquoise on May 9, 2013 at 1:23 pm

    Oh Dancing Siren, don’t lose your fire and just accept what is…. don’t lose yourself for the relationship. I’m not saying to walk away or give it up or anything like that… but keep that fire and determination going. Maybe there are things you could do…. for you. Plan to go visit an old friend or a relative…. look into a job where you get to travel…. even part time… just whatever you do, don’t give up your dreams. You may end up resenting him and feel that he’s held you back. Hard to have a good marriage with those feelings going on. Keep doing what you are doing, save money… and if he doesn’t help out, then plan a girls trip. Will cost half the money, and maybe inspire him to get moving in that area so you can plan a trip together. Sending lots of hugs.



  19.  #19Turquoise on May 9, 2013 at 1:28 pm

    I’m so glad to hear you are happy and it’s totally natural to have those fears… this is a big step! I recently read somewhere that if you are tired of starting over, stop giving up. That hit home for me, as I do feel tired of starting over with relationships, yet I know that most of the men I’ve dated, I wouldn’t have been happy with long term. Still, the walk away, talk myself out of, etc. is very strong for me. So, part of enjoying my summer is also going to include making a commitment to something… and not giving up. I’m thinking exercise! I need it, feel out of shape, it’s hard, and I could use the commitment to something besides my kids. WHo knows, maybe being committed to my heath and weight loss, not giving up on that… will inspire me to build a relationship I don’t want to give up on or walk away from, even if it feels scary… and I do have to admit, I’m not sure how much I’ve really wanted a relationship all these years. I think I just mainly wanted C back, so spent a lot of time with men I knew weren’t enough. Lots of thoughts processing now… interesting!



  20.  #20Dancing Siren on May 9, 2013 at 2:00 pm

    Hmm, well we both want to travel, I don’t feel he is holding me back, just that we have different ideas about how to get there.

    I am very much for going out there and making it happen, and he is more for keep doing what we are doing, saving gradually and we will get there in time.

    I err more towards seizing the day… that side of me is quite masculine though, and I have a tendency to try and rush and force things.

    He errs more towards going with the flow, and also has a tendency not to take action, sometimes being too laid back.



  21.  #21Rori Raye on May 9, 2013 at 2:53 pm

    Lynn – Please understand it isn’t possible to have ANY kind of relationship with someone you haven’t met – and online dating is difficult to navigate if you have no skills, knowledge or experience. Read everything you can about Online Dating – just hit the web…LoveRomanceRelationship.com has a nice, inexpensive little book with the nuts-and-bolts, and I’ve contributed to it…my Targeting Mr. Right program is all about how to handle everything, emotionally, and nuts-and-bolts.

    If you have a physical characteristic that makes you unique, and gives you a unique personal story…but isn’t obvious to the eye – you might want to share that before you make a second date. If it’s going to be noticeable, you might as well mention it before the first meeting. For example: If you’re mobile by wheelchair, you might want to share that earlier (just to check compatibility…) Also – do you have a support group or network? If so – they might have a lot of great information for you….Love, Rori



  22.  #22Rori Raye on May 9, 2013 at 2:54 pm

    fi – the answer is…just because. People respond, even when they aren’t enthusiastic. It’s just the way we are. Keep Circular Dating! Love, Rori



  23.  #23Dancing Siren on May 9, 2013 at 3:29 pm

    I actually feel really upset at the moment.

    I’m just gonna process / riff it out a bit.

    I am actually sitting here feeling really upset and I don’t even know if it has anything to do with him…

    I’m feeling intense misery right now and real tension through my jaw and body.

    I feel intense anger.

    I feel like lashing out at him and all he is doing is being himself.

    I feel really scared that I am not capable of having a relationship, and this feels like tightness in my throat.

    When I feel like this I just want to run away or ‘do’ something.

    He has gone to bed now cus he feels drained, and I feel guilty about this… cus it is my trying to ‘talk’ to him about it that has made him feel drained.

    My brain tells me that I really want a man who is more masculine. I want him to be the one coming up with the ideas for our travel plans. Figuring out… you know that creative energy, that driving force.

    And trying to talk to him about it just makes it worse.

    It feels like I am saying he is not enough.

    Is this really what I think?

    I don’t know.

    I would like someone sparky, and his constant energy also feels grounding, and reassure him (except when I feel responsible for draining him, like tonight)



  24.  #24Dancing Siren on May 9, 2013 at 3:36 pm

    I don’t know anymore. I feel so confused right now.

    I love him.

    And I feel angry.

    I want more (and even saying that I feel selfish, greedy and wrong!).

    I love that spark, when a man is figuring it out, coming up with plans, driving it all forward.

    Sometimes I can’t feel that from him… he just plods along, quietly.

    It’s not that it’s not happen, it just doesn’t appear to be!

    I feel SO tense atm.

    I wonder if I need to drop the ball? I have been concentrating so hard on moving towards going traveling together, trying to work it out.

    I feel angry at him.

    This is my stuff I am pretty sure.

    Maybe, I don’t know.



  25.  #25Dancing Siren on May 9, 2013 at 3:47 pm

    Maybe I need to focus back on me again?

    Be the driving force in my own life.

    I feel damaged, broken a bit.

    I don’t even know what I really want from him.

    I just wish he would lead more… really get us there.
    And I don’t know if I trust that he can.

    I think he can. And I want to trust and let go… and why isn’t he coming up with more ideas, more enthusiasm…

    GRRRR.

    I feel like a spoiled child, and yet I feel afraid. He doesn’t much believe in the LOA… just as an example, this scares me…

    Do I need to change the focus?

    Stop trying to make this travel plan happen? Get focused in the now instead?

    Probably.

    Why do I feel so resistant to this? Probably because it feels like moving in the total opposite direction to where I want to go.



  26.  #26Dancing Siren on May 9, 2013 at 4:40 pm

    Thank you for letting me process tonight.

    I actually feel better although really tired.

    I’m going to head to bed in a min.

    Just reading a few posts. I love the one before about CD-ing.

    I do think I need to pull back, drop the ball and focus on me.

    I believe I have a lot of anxiety feelings in me right now.

    Love to me.



  27.  #27Zia on May 9, 2013 at 5:14 pm

    Great post.

    Also, I’m probably going to blabber a lot here but WOW. Again Rori, THANK YOU FOR INTRODUCING ME TO CIRCULAR DATING.

    I can’t believe what a great tool this is! My example is that the guy I’m meant to be seeing on Sat night called yesterday, I missed the call. He didn’t send a message or leave a message but I called back and his phone was off/unavailable, I left it at that.

    I have three or four guys I’m emailing as well. Now, the “old me” would have followed up that missed call with a “oh im so sorry to have missed your call i’m free now if you want to call back” kinda message, OR would have been texting to find out what the plans were/are for Sat night coming up.

    Instead, I left it, replied to some of the other guys, went out to dinner with friends, and haven’t really thought more about it. I NEVER AGAIN want to have that obsessive, laser-focus feeling about a guy and I KNOW that circular dating is JUST the way to do this!!! And it makes me feel so good and in control… who ever thought that letting go of control would feel like I’m IN control!! Because I’m in control of ME and what *I* do and have stopped trying to control others!

    Other things I’m discovering at the moment…. being open and vulnerable it so scary, I feel like I’ve only just opened that door a crack. I feel a little embarrassed, because I feel like a child. This is so foreign to me, that I honestly feel like an innocent child and it’s terrifying… I am still worried about how I might come across to guys (but I’m going to do it anyway because right now I’m all about the 6 E’s).

    I am fascinated though, by this innocent inner child within me that I never knew I had… I always portrayed this tough strong exterior as a way to look after me. It is nice to have this open innocent melty creature within me that I really want to let out on my outside. I know it will take a few dates with a few different types of men to really feel comfortable with it… and the great thing is that if a man makes me feel bad when I’m open and vulnerable, he’s straight off the list.

    What an exciting adventure!!!



  28.  #28Luzydel on May 9, 2013 at 6:17 pm

    “Many, many men like “cold” women – but they’re the WRONG MEN!

    They’re the uncommitable, the cold, the scared, the puppy-dogs – not the men you want.

    They want the woman to keep the distance.”

    This is the men I attract; then I am all open and sweet and they distance and feel unworthy, but when I am cold and distance, they are all over me, but I feel fake. The real me deep inside is sweet, warm, affectionate… I want a man that can be open to receive and give that.



  29.  #29Zara on May 9, 2013 at 6:20 pm

    Is Your Man Just A “Snack”?
    Written by Rori Raye 11 November 2010

    Some men are relationship “lite.”

    He’s charming, he’s lovely, he’s exactly what you want — only he’s really just a snack.

    He doesn’t really “get” what it is you want.

    He doesn’t really understand the difference between himself — a freedom loving, fun, focused-on-work-and-his-own-stuff kind of guy — and you, a girl.

    So, if you’re head over heels for a man who’s frustrating you beyond all reason — even though you’ve let him know so many times what it is you need — perhaps he’s really just a snack.

    So… how does this work?

    And why are you so angry with him?

    Let’s say you’re at a fine restaurant with some friends and you order the most perfect steak — not pasta — but the most perfect, huge, wonderful steak or beautiful fish or grand meal complete with appetizers, champagne, baked potato, beautifully cut vegetables.

    Now…imagine the waiter brings you a hamburger patty, french fries and some potato salad.

    Let’s take this a step further – you eat it!

    You talk with your friends, and you eat your hamburger and potato salad and french fries. And while you’re eating this snack — you’re also complaining the whole time to your girlfriends about how the waiter made a mistake, how the patty isn’t even cooked decently, how the french fries are so oily, and how nobody ever gets your order right.

    You stand up and wave at the waiter, and when he comes over you yell at him for bringing you this horrible meal.

    And he says to you — “Well that’s the best I can do.“

    And so you go – “Okay…” – and you keep eating it.

    Only — you keep eating it and you keep complaining about it, too.

    You keep being upset about how this happened to you, how nobody ever gets it right for you, how – even though you explained your dinner so perfectly to the waiter, even though you waited for them to cook it so wonderfully, even though you saved up your money for this wonderful restaurant – they still bring you this kind of crap.

    Is this you with your man?

    You thought he was going to be the full meal but he turned out to be this sort of fairly basic, well… snacky food?

    At this point – the only question you want to ask is one to yourself: What am I doing still eating it?

    Why aren’t I asking the waiter for a new dinner, or leaving the restaurant and finding another?

    Is it because you’re afraid it’ll take too much time? Are you afraid that because he screwed up once it’s not going to work out well – ever?

    Are you just too hungry to care?

    Well here are your options:

    1. You can sit there and eat the meal as it’s handed to you but you don’t get to complain about it.

    2. You can send it back and get the meal you ordered or

    3. You can get up, have them put the snack in a doggie bag, go to a different restaurant and get the meal you want (let’s say a full steak, not a chopped meat patty), and then you can still save your snack, still in its doggie bag, for later. Or for when there isn’t another meal easily around you. You can always snack on your french fries and potato salad and chopped meat patty.

    How about that?

    So – can you put the man that you have now who’s sort of… snack like…in your doggie bag – and then go to another restaurant? You know… keep the doggie bag in your purse?

    I love this image. Yeah, it’s not completely thought out, but I just used it with a client and thought it was a really fabulous.

    I know that thinking about a man you’ve invested so much time and heart and energy in for anywhere from a month to many years doesn’t feel good thought of as a snack in a doggie bag – but that’s the only way you can make it to where you want to go.

    Maybe the man you’re with just needs a little time. Maybe he needs a year to grow up. Maybe he needs to see the world a little bit and realize what he would lose if he lost you. Maybe a chopped hamburger patty can grow into a steak.

    But what are you supposed to do while he’s figuring that out?

    Are you supposed to sit around and wait for him? Because I tell you this — if you sit around and wait for him to grow up you will go nuts. Your hormones will make you a crazy woman.

    Yes, I can help you meditate. I can help you Circular Date by just dating yourself and flirting but not actually dating other men. Yes, I can help you develop your peacefulness and “work on yourself.” But it’s only a “stop-gap” maneuver.

    I don’t want you to break up with your guy and leave him and feel awful and take up all that time feeling bad!

    I want you to live fully with whatever’s happening. If he’s a snack, put him on the “back of your horse” and take him with you.

    You don’t have to complain about him, you don’t have to try and fix him, you don’t have to try to explain to him why he needs to grow up and really really quickly. You don’t have to tell him one more time what it is you need and what it is you want. You don’t have to dump him.

    Just put him in a doggie bag and take it with you. You could always use a snack.

    And who knows – maybe one day through the magic of transformation you’ll look in that doggie bag one day and it’ll be an amazing gourmet meal!

    Love Rori



  30.  #30k2012 on May 9, 2013 at 7:35 pm

    “But – No man gets to keep you all to himself without marriage, if that’s what you want in your life.”. That’s right. Good evening everyone. I am reading the articles on circular dating which were the related posts at the top of the last thread. The above post is good and I enjoyed the reposting of the post above by Zara. Have a lot of catrching up top do.



  31.  #31Olivia on May 9, 2013 at 7:53 pm

    Doggie bag man…hilarious!



  32.  #32Zia on May 9, 2013 at 8:18 pm

    I’m curious, what are your “rules” regarding when you need to know firm plans for a date?

    I was asked out for Sat night, and as yet nothing has been confirmed. This is the first time I’m going into this with rules/boundaries. I am thinking by 2pm on the day is enough of a time to know the when/where of it?

    I am not too fussy re needing to know a full 24 hours in advance, I have a backup plan too (I love this idea of ALWAYS have a backup plan!)



  33.  #33Turquoise on May 9, 2013 at 9:17 pm

    Hi sirens…. Wow, I feel really nervous about my date with fuzzy picture guy. His profile sounds like exactly what I want. I finally feel ready, for an actual relationship with someone who is my match… Who I could have a life with…. Yet I am terrified that it could actually happen. Which, I’m not saying he is… Haven’t even met him yet. But if he is/could be… And I actually am ready, wow my life could drastically change. Is this what it feels like when you move past unavailable men to potential relationships with men that might actually give you what you want?
    Maybe I’m not as ready as I thought….



  34.  #34Turquoise on May 9, 2013 at 9:29 pm

    I love these snack analogy…. Like just having a snack when you feel like it… But not the main course, not enough to exist on… But maybe like popcorn at the movie you want to see, or a midnight snack when you really want it, or the occasional fudge indulgence that you know isn’t good for you all the time… But in small amounts, quite pleasurable!



  35.  #35Zia on May 9, 2013 at 9:33 pm

    Yes turquoise, I am also feeling so scared of a REAL relationship!! But I feel I am ready to start exploring life with real men who are willing to give 🙂



  36.  #36Zia on May 9, 2013 at 10:12 pm

    One of the guys I’ve been emailing – basically was all “woe is me” about the fact that girls go on these dating sites and there’s a bit of a connection but they continue to chat to other guys. Um………… (I haven’t even met him yet). That’s one to let go I think!

    He also placed a lot of emphasis on trust and honesty, too much so, that made me feel like there were betrayal issues there.. alarm bells ringing if I’m picking this up so early on, especially after the way things happened with my ex and HIS trust issues!



  37.  #37Millie on May 9, 2013 at 10:50 pm

    I like this post. I probably would have sent a text similar to Ellen’s. I feel like I need to work on my own warmth…

    I went on a second interview for a job a few weeks ago. I felt really confident and relaxed in the interview, the most I’ve been in any interview so far! They said they would be in touch and seemed really interested, but I have not heard from them. I didn’t think too much of it, but heard from the Director at school that the company thought I was “too serious and stiff.” I was so surprised to hear that. I AM a serious, professional person, but I had felt so at ease in the interview. I feel disappointed that that was the reason they did not contact me. I think this is a sign that I need to work on being warmer, even when I’m talking business.



  38.  #38Heart on May 10, 2013 at 1:44 am

    It’s interesting to read this and realize how we unknowing make a guy wrong. I going to practice catching that…



  39.  #39Vi on May 10, 2013 at 3:52 am

    I feel soothed by this post..



  40.  #40Heart on May 10, 2013 at 4:26 am

    Btw Blog – CudG’s bday is this in a few days…should I wish hima happy bday on FB or via text. Or should I not do so….
    I mean I care for him and don’t want to feel mean but meh not sure if I really want to send any energy his way at all…



  41.  #41Turquoise on May 10, 2013 at 5:06 am

    Heart…. I feel it’s nice to send a happy birthday message if you do it with no expectation. It’s about your energy in giving and how that makes you feel. I sent one to Mr. Conversation back in January, knowing he wouldn’t get many, especially from his family. They are mostly estranged. It made me feel good about myself to let him know he was thought about on his special day. He replied warmly, and I let it go. 2 months later Zi started running into him, and it was still awkward, but I did feel a little easier. A few weeks later my mom had her attack, and he was a great support. Our friendship isn’t what it was before, but we talk and joke, flirt some. I feel good that the one little step I took, helped pave the way to some restoration and helped me feel more at peace. I will run into him, our kids are friends and go to school together. It’s a good thing. He told me the other night that when we were together, it was a lot of good times. It was. Maybe there will be some new ones too. We shall see. But he’s a snack. Doesn’t have the availability I am looking for.



  42.  #42Luzydel on May 10, 2013 at 5:40 am

    I am liking the feeling of not knowing what I want in a man. I was taught to have a “type”, someone who fits my life, my taste, my point of view. Now I feel that as a big burden to carry. The best person for me is the one I can accept not matter what, because if I feel hurt, disappointments etc. They are just built by my expectations and my own unmet needs – the ones that I did not take care of.

    If I love myself no matter what, I can love someone no matter what. I do not want to be limited by earthy expectations, or by how good our picture looks in Facebook, or by how people perceive us. I want a connection that is strong enough to survive people’s biases and flexible enough to move forward.



  43.  #43BeLoved on May 10, 2013 at 6:29 am

    I finally did it…I ordered the Heart Connection Toolkit, that I’ve been wanting for MONTHS.
    It’s pretty much all of my disposable income for the month, but I believe it will be worth it.

    It felt AMAZING to be warm and open with my BIL last night and still be deflecting his BS.
    He singled me out in the middle of having a fun conversation where my sisters and nieces and I were laughing and cutting up, to tell me a totally tangent story about HIM, and his BS antics at work where he basically abuses his power and feels proud of it. I kept asking him, feeling very effusive and warm, WHY ARE YOU TELLING ME THIS???
    Do you need a hug? (lol)
    Do you need some appreciation?
    He stopped and said, “I don’t know why. I just like sticking it to people like that, don’t you?”
    I practially bubbled over laughing and shaking my head…
    Noooooo!!!! I DON’T!
    I felt astounded to realize that after 24 years, this guy STILL doesn’t seem to know I can’t stand him and that I only put up with him because I value my family connections, and love and respect my sister and value time with her more than “sticking it” to him.
    He has NO clue of the harm he caused, NO clue that there is a whole world of people who value treating others with dignity and respect, even when there is one right in front of his face.

    So….if using Rori’s tools can help me feel warm and connected and euphoric, even, in the face of my BIL..
    happythankyoumoreplease!!!



  44.  #44Femininewoman on May 10, 2013 at 6:37 am

    Heart I would try to remember the last time I did something like that with a man who I had no further contact with after the HBday wishes to see how I felt. I would also ask myself why would I want to. Then see what bubbles up.



  45.  #45Kath on May 10, 2013 at 6:45 am

    Another good piece of advice Rori!- So, I’ve been leaning back and allowing my guy to see that I am not the needy, horrible woman he saw a few weeks ago but instead someone who has voiced her feelings and the meaning behind her outburst. It is so painful sometimes though!- I cook a lovely meal for us in the evening and he sits there saying almost nothing-no conversation at all- I don’t try and step in like I used to, but God sometimes the silence is awful, makes me feel really uncomfortable. Yet last night, he said, “this is nice-I’m really enjoying this” which was so lovely to hear. He left some money out for me this morning and I sent him a text to say thank you- he didn’t respond and I found myself really missing the texts he used to send me and the words of love I used to hear. I know I have to step outside of the relationship and let him get through all the stuff he is going through but I’m not sure whether this will relight the flame for me- and I know you say that is the point, maybe he isn’t “the one”- the thing is, I don’t know if he is the one because he doesn’t feel totally available to me. Am I making sense?



  46.  #46BeLoved on May 10, 2013 at 6:51 am

    Heart, your question made me think of this Baggage Reclaim post:

    Dealing With Happy Birthday’s and Big Occasions: To Send a Card or Text…Or Not To Send, That Is The Question

    http://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/dealing-with-happy-birthdays-and-big-occasions-to-send-a-card-or-text-or-not-to-send/

    “When you dig deep (or maybe not that deep for some of you), the truth is that when you invest energy into 1) fretting about whether to send a greeting and 2) actually sending a greeting to someone who isn’t your friend/didn’t treat you well in the relationship, you’re far too worried about how you look and being the Good Girl / Guy.

    In reality, when all is said and done and you’re on your deathbed or have passed on, trust me when I say that nothing and no-one is going to come along with a printout of all the ‘brownie points’ you’ve clocked up through life by doing things that are not actually in your best interests and say “You have done so much good. According to my notes, back in October 2011, you sent a text to one jacka$$ ex to wish them happy birthday. In fact, as I flick through my log, I see that you’ve been such a good person always letting people that may not have been thinking of you know that at least you’re thinking of them with a host of greeting cards, gifts, thoughtful texts, and a whole heap of boundary busting.”



  47.  #47Kath on May 10, 2013 at 6:52 am

    Or is it that after the events of the last few months and my perceptions of his behaviour and the fact that he seems to need being needed by needy women, that my feelings of him being my strong, knight in shining armour have now diminished and his armour now seems far to big for him!- have I lost respect for him?- Do I not see him as the strong, self-assured guy he showed himself to be?- He always seems to have “options” of things to do- seems to find it very difficult to make a decision and stick to it. Perhaps I am vieiwing that as a failing in him and being too judgemental, I am trying not to be. I really thought though that he has to prove to me that I am the one he wants and although he says I am, I still don’t feel the connection that we used to have or the willingness from him to show me any real affection.



  48.  #48BeLoved on May 10, 2013 at 6:56 am

    Natalie just cracks me up, I love the way she breaks things down, she has a great way of helping me laugh at myself 🙂

    “This means that when you sit at home burning up copious amounts of brain energy with a train of thought that goes a little something like this: “It’s Phil’s birthday next week. I wonder if I should send him a text or card? Or maybe I should give him that gift I was originally going to give him before the bastard finished it with me… But will he expect to hear from me? Or will he think it’s weird if he doesn’t hear from me? I’ve been trying to get him to meet up with me or at least talk to me so maybe if I send him a message (Hmmm, I still don’t know if I should just send a text or will go for the full on card?) he’ll see that I’m thinking of him and finally respond back to me. Oh my God – what if he responds and asks me to meet up and we end up back in bed together? Or jaysus what if he completely blanks my message? I’d be mortified! I don’t know what to do. I feel like I should send a message to show that I still care. I also don’t want him to think that I’m childish…”,
    it’s a sign that you’re looking for an excuse to get noticed by someone who isn’t noticing you in the way that you want.”



  49.  #49Kath on May 10, 2013 at 7:09 am

    For me the telling few comments he has made in recent months includes the classic line ” I was stunned by your outburst and now I feel I have to careful what I say and can’t mention (wife’s name) in case you react in a negative way”. My point was why the hell would he want to talk about his flipping wife with the woman he is now supposed to be in a relationship with!!??!!- I am still feeling resentful, I know, but I am processing it, gradually!- and I am becoming my stronger self again but in the process I have built up the protective barrier again and I’m not sure how to make it stop growing!



  50.  #50Femininewoman on May 10, 2013 at 7:17 am

    Kath do you think you remind him of her in some way?



  51.  #51Indigo on May 10, 2013 at 7:17 am

    Zia 32,

    For me, 2 pm on the day would be far too late, I would need to know at least the day before.

    For me personally, last minute plans are something I reserve for people whom I have known for a long time, who I am close to, where there is a feeling of utter safety. Where I also feel free to say no or change my mind without fear of consequence.



  52.  #52Indigo on May 10, 2013 at 7:19 am

    Yay! I have my date tonight (2nd date with wonderful-first-date-on-Sunday guy).

    I am SO looking forward to it. I think to myself, isn’t that wonderful for me? It has been so long since I have looked forward to a date with a new man.



  53.  #53Indigo on May 10, 2013 at 7:20 am

    It’s cold tonight, so I am envisioning warm smiles and laughs inside the restaurant, and I am going to be wearing some beautiful knee-length boots. Oh this feels good.



  54.  #54Indigo on May 10, 2013 at 7:23 am

    Kath,

    Have you tried telling him how it makes you feel to hear about her, without accusation?

    For me, this worked really well. Sometimes guys don’t get (in a feeling sense) that we mind when another woman is talked about. They don’t see the big deal.



  55.  #55Arachne on May 10, 2013 at 7:25 am

    Dear Sirens (and Rori, of course) – reading this great post, I feel I finally need to ask for help! I’ve been thinking about this thing over and over in my mind, I’ve discussed and analyzed it with my friends again and again, but some experienced advice from this community would feel so, soooo good to receive.

    Here’s the thing: I met a guy on a sex-dating website, and I feel mixed signals coming from him: sometimes it feels like he actually wants to date me, sometimes it feels he’s just interested in the physical part. And I feel confused and in need for some clarity, and I feel compelled to ask him what he wants, but I don’t know how to do it, or if I should do it at all…

    Now, writing this, I’m starting to feel defensive, so I’ll add more context and explain WHY I’m on sex-dating sites… *blush* No, I don’t have a profile there to find the love of my life – that would be stupid. I’m there to raise my self-esteem, to gain confidence in my own femininity and sexuality, and to overcome some teenage traumas induced by well-meaning parents (long story short, I’ve always been a little overweight, they wanted me to get fit, so they tried to “motivate” me with things like “no boy will like you if you’re fat”, “you look like a little whale, you’re going to end up sad and alone” and “trust me, as a man, I tell you (said my own Dad): no guy will be able to ‘get it up’ for you…” – so, when I discovered the naughtier places on the web, I realized that many men ARE, in fact, attracted by me and my body). These websites (as well as cybersex – which I wrote about in another post some time ago) have helped me quite a lot in my own evolution as a woman and a human being, so I don’t regret using them. I also have profiles on many normal dating websites, and I do Circular Date as much as I can (I might have a date later today!). So no, I’m not depending entirely on the sex-dating sites, and I certainly didn’t expect to get involved with someone from there.

    But there’s this one guy who found me on a sex site and invited me out for coffee.

    I was a little confused, but I accepted and we had a very nice, perfectly non-sexual date (we ignored where we met). He travels a lot from work, often in places where he has no phone/internet connection (he fixes boat engines, which I find pretty cool), so we got out of touch.

    But some time after the date, he saw me online at 2 am one night, remembered where he had initially found me, and started hitting on me – we ended up having text cybersex that night, and it felt great, but afterwards, when he suggested we should turn the fantasy into reality, I started feeling bad. As I told him (and I now realize I was probably making him wrong by it): I felt downgraded, from a “date” to a simple “booty call”. He seemed to be surprised and maybe even a little hurt by this remark, and after some late-night talking, he invited me to his house and agreed to NOT have sex, just cuddle and hang out. I accepted, he picked me up, we had a fantastic time making out like teenagers, but I still felt sad and angry with myself while I was going home alone (I didn’t want to stay overnight, and he got a bad headache and couldn’t drive me home). So the next time he wanted to see me, I said I would feel better at my own place, so he came here, we talked a bit, and then turned to sexy time again – but, again, we didn’t have actual intercourse. He seemed content to not do that, and seemed to like taking it slowly and step by step. But I still felt a little used.

    Just before he left, I used a short speech like this: “I’m just a girl here, and we get hormonal and emotionally attached. See, I don’t want to be fuck-buddies, I can’t handle that. If that’s what you want, that’s ok, but we will have to stop seeing each other at some point.” Again, he seemed confused, and said “I understand, but that’s not it. I’ll text you when I get home” – and he kissed me and left in a hurry (he did text me later that night. He texted me in-between meeting, but I feel like he only wants me to cuddle with, have some sexual (even if not actual sex) activity, and have a companion for the few hours right after he lands. My best friend calls him “straight-from-the-plane guy”, since he texts me and wants to meet first thing when he arrives back here.

    Last time he did that, I refused, saying I can’t that evening, but I’d love to see him the following week. He replied that he was leaving for Texas next Tuesday (it was on a Sunday), I just sent him a ” 🙁 “. On Monday, I did a bad thing, I initiated, by sending him a text that I’m free and it would feel wonderful to see him before he goes away again. He didn’t reply, and I felt awful. But he replied on Wednesday, with a “sorry I didn’t get back to you sooner” and asking me what I was doing – I happened to be out with some friends, so I replied “Hey, you! 🙂 I’m out, drinking some white wine. Feels so smooth and refreshing…” and he said just “Nice!”, to which I didn’t reply anymore. I thought he was already in Texas, but I later saw on Facebook that he only left on Friday – so, on Wednesday he was still in town, probably wanted to see me, but was discouraged by me being out and didn’t insist. Now he’s there, and I’m very sure that he is going to text me and ask me to “come over for pizza” as he did three times already.

    Now, I want to see him, and I do want to make out with him some more, and eventually have sex. But I don’t want to be at his beck and call and be his cuddle pillow when he comes back from his travels, horny, but too tired to take me out. I want to give him the chance to date me, if he wants. Three times already, he seemed to suggest that he’s not interested in sex only, but I still feel confused. If he doesn’t want more, I can meet him one more time, go all the way, have amazing sex, and then move on with my life and not think about him anymore (I have had casual one-time encounters with two other guys from the same website, and it was great and very confidence-boosting). So I can respect that. I just need some clarity and to know where I stand. I’m composing speeches and scripts in my head all the time, and I’m thinking and thinking how to act. Any advice, please, please? 🙁



  56.  #56Femininewoman on May 10, 2013 at 7:29 am

    I don’t think it is the “telling him how it makes you feel to hear about her, without accusation?” It might be the energy or the intensity behind the words.



  57.  #57Kath on May 10, 2013 at 7:32 am

    Femininewoman, Uhm, that’a an interesting question!- She has mental health issues (genetic apparently) which were present for much of their marriage. His nickname for her is “looby”- also, he has a string of short lived x’s who all fall in that category too!- perhaps my outburst did remind him of them!-Ha!- The thing is- I am not like like that in any other way!- I am strong, intelligent, interested in loads of things, and I know he values my opinion and asks for my advice about stuff- but does he feel I am judging him by his past?-

    Indigo- I have tried to explain- but it all came out wrong because I was so upset!-I should have thought about what I was going to say more carefully!- I think he has shut down from me now and is still scared of saying or doing the wrong thing. However, he can see that I am backing off and not being “over-emotional” as he put it!- I did ask him how things would have been if the boot had been on the other foot!



  58.  #58Syreena on May 10, 2013 at 7:33 am

    I want to learn and understand with what is mean’t by cold.

    If I want to distance myself because I feel bad about how I am being treated or feeling in someones presence is that being cold? If the answer is no? How is this different?

    If someone says or does something that feels bad or in some cases deeply upsetting to me I just want to tell them that I don’t like it and get away or get them away from me. Is that being cold? If I am unable to get away from them as they are in my home and they do not leave quickly enough when I ask. I feel so bad inside I want to physically make them leave so I can feel calm and peaceful again. It takes huge self control not to physically push them out? I really would like some help with this? Certain things really trigger me very quickly.



  59.  #59Femininewoman on May 10, 2013 at 7:34 am

    he has a string of short lived x’s who all fall in that category too!-

    I wonder if that is what he is attracted to?



  60.  #60Kath on May 10, 2013 at 7:41 am

    #58 FW, That’s what I’m wondering too!- since I moved in with him I have taken on the role of being sensible and planning person. I do all the household bills etc because that’s what we agreed- and it transpires that’s what his wife did too!- and the fact that we are living in the same house that they did when they were together-ugh!- its all hit me like a ton of bricks!- and then he recently mentioned her again and I did say that I thought he wasn’t over her. He said he would always love a part of her because they’d known each other since they were 9yrs old. Well, cool, and she’s the mother of chilren, that’s cool too- but I do get the feeling that he wants female friends rather than a partner because then he can freely talk about his wife without any “outbursts”. He says he really wants to move on and I guess I always knew that the reality of it would be tough for him- I really didn’t bargain on how tough it was going to be on me!- but perhaps you’re right about the being attracted to women with issues- perhaps he has a need to “fix” women?-I don’t need fixing thanks, I just need to be loved!



  61.  #61Linda on May 10, 2013 at 7:42 am

    This thread is so helpful…. remembering to be warm is so important. How we say things usually more important that what is said. Last night used the idea of this post in my conversation with FavoriteCD last night. I had several things on my to do list yesterday, cleaning house, a bit of errand running, some retail therapy (hehe), He called me and text asking me if I wanted to come over and eat dinner and spend the night. THe old pre-Rori me would have stopped all that I was doing and had planned to accomplish to go because I felt instant insecurity and worry that if I didn’t I would loose the relationship or make them mad or… hmmm sad I know….

    Last night, I said…” I am so pleased that you invited me over, it always feels so good to be with you. I had planned to get everything done that I needed to do ( cleaning, bathing the dog, etc etc..) this evening so we could just relax and enjoy this weekend together”. His response?… “Ok honey, that is fine, do what you need to do, tomorrow will be here soon”

    I feel proud of me. Balance feels so good.



  62.  #62BeLoved on May 10, 2013 at 7:46 am

    57
    Syreena I’m wondering this myself.

    Online person asked me if I wanted pics, “naughty or nice”, I said no…after a few more messages we exchanged phone #’s, he texted me again, asking if I want pics, I told him again, no, I don’t want an online/text relationship, I want to meet real people. It would feel better to meet in person.
    AGAIN he asked, “not even for a preview?”
    He has plenty of photos up,
    I told him I felt unheard and a little turned off.
    He apologized, I didn’t respond because I was at dinner with my family, and because he hasn’t even called me yet.

    Is this being cold?
    I do notice feelings of combativeness coming up, maybe because some of these guys aren’t moving fast enough for me, I want quick quick like a bunny let’s get to a date quickness!
    🙂



  63.  #63Femininewoman on May 10, 2013 at 7:50 am

    I thought he wasn’t over her – Kath he could exprience this as aggressive. The outbursts are about you and your issues that need to be worked out. Love brings up things unlike itself to be healed.

    If he has a need to fix women and you don’t need to be fixed I would wonder if this is not a match.



  64.  #64Kath on May 10, 2013 at 7:55 am

    FW, I hear you. I know my issues are around actually feeling that I’m wanted by someone- childhood unresolved stuff!- and I have tried to explain that. He has huge issues too from his childhood- he and his brothers and sisters were repeatedly badly treated by their Mother-first she would love them and then she’d be beating them. They never knew where they stood. Perhaps my insecurities have only served to highlight his and for him to put up his barriers. We get on so well together and think the same way about a lot of things- I would really hate to lose him-but I guess only time will tell if he really is the one for me.



  65.  #65Arachne on May 10, 2013 at 8:04 am

    The solution I’ve come up with is: not call him, not initiate in any way, wait for him to text me when he comes back from Texas, and not accept to “come over”, but instead suggest to meet someplace else and, when we do meet, prepare a longer speech and ask for clarity. Based on our pattern of interaction so far, the scenario in my hear goes like this:

    Texting:

    Him: “Finally back from Texas! How have you been?”
    Me: “Welcome back! I’ve been ok, and it feels great to hear from you again!”
    Him: “Thanks! Feels good to be talking to you again! I’m landing in [our town] later tonight. Wanna come over for pizza?”

    Now, it wouldn’t be a good time to give him “the speech”. The guy will be exhausted after crossing the Atlantic, horny, and not in the mood for serious talk. If I met him, I’d feel resentful, so it’s better not to meet. But I don’t want him to feel rejected either. Possible reply:

    Me: “Damn, it’ll feel great to see you again, but I have plans for tonight. What about next week? I’m free on Monday and Wednesday.””

    (I need to suggest alternative dates, because otherwise he won’t insist – I feel he’s interested, so why is he so shy???)

    Hopefully, he won’t have to fly to the other side of the planet too soon, and he’ll want to see me on one of those days. I’m almost sure he will suggest “coming over” or coming to my place. And I thought about replying something like this:

    “Hmm, coming over seems to turn to making out after 5 minutes, heehee! And I love it, and I’m really looking forward to feeling your body against mine again! But it would also feel wonderful to see you in a place without a bed first, to just talk and have fun and get to know each other. Is that something you would like to do? What do you think?”

    Is that a good thing to say? Am I leaning forward too much? Can I do it? 🙁

    If I do it and he refuses to meet me, I will have my answer (that he doesn’t want to date, just “hang out” sexually). But I can almost feel he will not refuse, but instead say something like:

    Him: “Sure. What do you want to do?”

    (It was difficult to make HIM pick a place for out coffee date first time we met!)

    Me: “Anything, as long as I can have a nice time with you.”

    And then, hopefully, after some more texts, we decide on a meeting place. And because I suggested it, I can’t expect him to pick an activity and a place, right? Let’s say we meet for a beer next day after work. And now I need to finally give him the full speech/script and ask for clarity. My latest version is:

    Me: “It feels so good to be here with you! Thanks for taking me out again, I feel kinda relieved!”
    Him: “You’re welcome, but… why relieved?”
    Me: “Uhhm, remember I mentioned feeling weird and confused before? I don’t want to keep insisting on it, but I can still feel it weighing down on me, and it would feel so good to just let it in the open. Can you listen to me a little, please?”
    Him (confused and a little scared of drama to come): “Okay…”
    Me: “First, let me tell you: you were wonderful with me, and I’ve always felt good with you. But after we have seen each other, I have been feeling… weird, and unsure of where I stand. Unfortunately, us girls tend to overanalyze, and to like to put labels and categories on everything, in order to feel safe and to know how to deal with things. And right here, I feel in the dark, and it would feel so great to just know… where I stand.”
    Him: “Wait, what do you mean?”
    Me: “Look, I don’t want to play games, I want to be honest, and please, it would help me so much and it would solve my overthinking problem if you can be completely honest with me as well. The truth is… I like you, and it would feel great to see you more, not just for sexy time. It would feel great to put you back in the “guys I date” category, not in the “maybe just sex” category. Would you like that? If you don’t , it’s ok, I can respect and accept any answer.”

    Pfffff. It’s the best I’ve got so far, but it still feels silly and inappropriate. Any suggestions, ideas, advice? Please? Pretty please?

    Oh, and maybe this counts as well – we’re both still pretty young, I’ll be 25 in a couple of months, he’ll be 28 later this year. I’m not ready to be a wife yet, but I do want a long-term, meaningful, evolving relationship…. *sigh*



  66.  #66Arachne on May 10, 2013 at 8:07 am

    Hm, my second comment appeared, but my first one is still awaiting moderation, probably because I used an “f” word in it *blush*. Without it, 65 above doesn’t make much sense. I am sorry for the length of the comments.



  67.  #67Femininewoman on May 10, 2013 at 8:19 am

    “Hmm, coming over seems to turn to making out after 5 minutes, heehee! And I love it, and I’m really looking forward to feeling your body against mine again!” – if you are then why the but. Seems inauthentic to me.

    “But it would also feel wonderful to see you in a place without a bed first,” It would feel wonderful to go out, have fun and connect. Is that something you would like to do? What do you think?”



  68.  #68MovingMagic on May 10, 2013 at 8:24 am

    Ladies, I need some thoughts. AttentiveCd hasn’t felt well the last week or so (stomach bug) so I’ve been unable to share my feelings/desires on dating other men with him. I don’t want to do it over the phone because it feels impersonal to me, so it may be another week or so before I see him. I never said that I intend on only dating him, though I’m pretty confident he sees it that way. I’ve had a few invites fo this weekend & early next week that I would like to accept & I would like some perspective on this. 🙂 I like him & feel comfortable/good while with him, though he has admitted to fears over getting hurt. I feel empathy and understanding toward his fears & don’t want to push him. I don’t want to wait for him though. My needs are way too important to me…it’s taken some work to get to this place. Wait & have the conversation? Go on the dates & share when I see him next?



  69.  #69Arachne on May 10, 2013 at 8:25 am

    Thank you, Femininewoman! “go out, have fun and connect” sound much better.

    The “but” is because I’m feeling confused and afraid he only want the quasi-sex, and because I do want that, but in connection to “more”. But you’re right, I should skip the “but” (I also noticed there are not “buts”, only “ands” in Rori’s speeches…). Maybe “It would also feel wonderful…”



  70.  #70Femininewoman on May 10, 2013 at 8:26 am

    “Can you listen to me a little, please?”

    I felt an eeewww with shaking should as I read this. It feels like a huge turn off as it reminds me of a powerless little girl begging to feel seen and heard and my mind conjured up the image of a low-value woman.



  71.  #71Femininewoman on May 10, 2013 at 8:29 am

    Me: “First, let me tell you: you were wonderful with me, and I’ve always felt good with you. But after we have seen each other, I have been feeling… weird, and unsure of where I stand. Unfortunately, us girls tend to overanalyze, and to like to put labels and categories on everything, in order to feel safe and to know how to deal with things. And right here, I feel in the dark, and it would feel so great to just know… where I stand.”

    This had my stomach feeling tightened up in knots, resisting lurching. The use of buts tend to invalidate the previous comment. “Unfortunately” suggests that you are apologizing for who you are. As if you are not comfortable in your own skin and know what you want in your own life. Asking about where you stand puts all the power of the relationship and your life into his hands, as if you have no say. Again eeewwww for me.



  72.  #72Indigo on May 10, 2013 at 8:29 am

    Syreena 57

    Re: the first part. No, in my opinion, that is not being cold. Stating that you don’t like how something makes you feel and moving away is not coldness, it is honouring yourself. If someone has treated you badly, *they* have created the coldness and the distance, in my opinion, and I really believe most people are aware of it on some level when they have treated you in a sub-par way.

    As to the second part, do you know if you are highly sensitive? Highly sensitive people are usually sensitive to their physical space, and it is very important for HS people, and for anyone for that matter, to practice setting physical boundaries in a way that works for the relationship (that is what I have had to do, and I have found it IMMENSELY helpful).



  73.  #73Femininewoman on May 10, 2013 at 8:30 am

    I would ask myself why would I be having sex?



  74.  #74Indigo on May 10, 2013 at 8:31 am

    Arachne,

    I kind of agree with what Feminine Woman said above.

    Also, for me, saying that “girls tend to overanalyze” is not only not necessarily true, it also seems to undermine the feelings which you are expressing.



  75.  #75Femininewoman on May 10, 2013 at 8:32 am

    MovingMagic what has he offered you?



  76.  #76Femininewoman on May 10, 2013 at 8:34 am

    So true Indigo. If sex is making you feel shaky and insecure, own it. As Rori says use “I am just a girl here”, you don’t want to feel panicky about sex.



  77.  #77Arachne on May 10, 2013 at 8:45 am

    Femininewoman, Indigo – thank you. I feel grateful. I also feel sad and “uncovered” – yes, I feel unsure, uncomfortable, and very apologetic. And I always use a lot of “buts”. I am sorry. 🙁

    You are right, Feminewoman, I do need him to decide. Maybe it would have helped to see the first comment, which is awaiting moderation, and which included the context – how he actually found me on a sex site (where I go to deal with some self-image traumas and frustrations), but took me out for coffee once, and then wanted to come over and just hang out in his or my place. I still haven’t had sex with him (though I slept with another guy from that website in the meantime – a one-time thing, casual, I can deal with that), because he seemed to want more in the beginning. So that’s why I need to know what he wants. But maybe he doesn’t know it himself.

    My nasty voice is telling me right now: “Stop it, you foolish girl! Can’t you see you’ve just embarrassed yourself in front of these nice ladies? You’re so far from being a woman anyone would want to date. You’re an emotional mess, and it’s a big turnoff for anyone. Be grateful and amazed that this guy wanted to see so far.” I feel sad and almost like crying. I need to go back to my online CBT modules to fight the negative patterns of thinking… 🙁



  78.  #78Rori Raye on May 10, 2013 at 8:57 am

    Arachne – OMG – you’re going to think I’m wacky, what I’m about to say – but I don’t get your confusion here. He sounds like a “perfect” lover to me! And what, exactly, is wrong with a f*ck-buddy?! I remember one of the best experiences of my life with a man who was exactly that. I went over there for sex, he came to me for sex. I experienced him as a friend in many ways, for some reason I didn’t do my usual “get hung up” on him – I just loved the relationship exactly as it was – f*ck buddies.

    I’m not saying this is good OR bad – I’m just saying – if you’re willing to have cyber sex, what makes you think this kind of arrangement in real life would be so bad for you? Clearly, he wouldn’t expect exclusivity, clearly you could learn from the experience, and who’s to say it wouldn’t turn into a great, yes, a lot long-distance and on his terms – love affair.

    I put no rules around anything. If you think he’s going to break your heart – he will. If you want someone to touch you physically and have sex with you – and you like the way he does it – I see no reason to say no. That doesn’t mean you can’t by polyamorous and date and sleep with other men, too!

    I’m not saying you SHOULD do this – I’m just saying that your reasons for NOT doing it need to be examined. This man is not a good candidate for lifelong partnership – and it’s not something impossible, either. If he’s not taking you out in public for coffee or a walk – that’s a sign it’s not going to go anywhere – and, again – why exactly do you care? If the issue is the emotional quality of “intercourse” – there are ways to work around it.

    Look – I don’t want you to get your heart broken, and there are likely LOTS of men you could have purely physical relationships with. I’m just saying that the IDEA of having a purely physical relationship with someone isn’t something I would mentally downgrade.

    Making the “assumption” that someone else is “using” you is a leap I’d never make. AND – if it doesn’t feel good – whatever it is – don’t do it!

    I’m just saying that everything is a gift and an opportunity. It’s all about the learning. If this doesn’t seem like a good learning situation (seems to me there’s a lot to work with here as regards your self-esteem and sex/emotion skills and patterns) – then don’t do it. If it does, then try it out. Nothing’s in stone, nothing’s as it seems, it’s all about YOU.

    Love, Rori



  79.  #79Femininewoman on May 10, 2013 at 9:02 am

    Arachne – the context makes a huge difference for me.



  80.  #80Femininewoman on May 10, 2013 at 9:03 am

    What a positive way to look at things. Wow Rori.



  81.  #81Rori Raye on May 10, 2013 at 9:10 am

    Arachne – I’ve just now read the thread of comments on your situation, and I still stand by what I wrote. Hardly any of us can sleep with a man and not get hung up – and if what you want deep inside you is a traditional man – Circular Date THOSE men. I can only say from my own life (there was a period of time after I was assaulted and raped, and then seduced and betrayed by my therapist for the frosting on the pain cake, that I veered into an attempt to heal myself through sex.

    What I learned is that I needed to be loved – AND I needed to be touched – AND how I perceived the qualities of, and the feelings of the man I was attempting to heal myself with created good feelings and bad feelings – and I didn’t seem to know in advance how that would go.

    There were times when I had what I told myself was a “casual fling” – even in a strange city – and yet I felt bad when he didn’t seem to “care.” And there have been times when I felt the “care” and was completely disgusted by sleeping with a man who liked me more than I liked him. And I’ve been crushed the most by men I created “Imaginary Relationships” with because I was having sex with them and really wanting love.

    The problem all along – for me – was a lack of clarity. Every encounter is new, different, and doesn’t fit into a box. It’s all about the learning – and the investment you make in a particular situation. I do not disparage the learning, under any circumstances. What I DO not want for any of you is an investment of time, energy, love and heart into a situation where the learning has been COMPLETED. Where you are simply repeating a pattern because you haven’t ABSORBED the learning from the last-go-round. And still – I champion your going through the same situation over and over again until the learning IS absorbed – and you can move on to the next experience.

    Clearly – this triggered me intensely – and I’ll do more writing about it. Love, Rori



  82.  #82Indigo on May 10, 2013 at 9:21 am

    ((((Arachne))))

    Oh no no, I can assure you, you are not an emotional mess, you are not foolish, and you have nothing to apologise for.

    As Rori says, this is just a wonderful opportunity to explore what feels good to you, and to figure out what you feel and what you want.

    If I can give you one highly useful pointer: heap the love on yourself, and it is really useful to catch yourself any time you want to say something which puts yourself down or puts other people above you 😉



  83.  #83Arachne on May 10, 2013 at 9:34 am

    Oh, wow. Thank you, Rori. My “groupie” instincts (backed up by general low self esteem, that made me think I’d never deserve an answer from you) kicked in again, and I’m shaking and sniffing and going “omg, omg, omg, omg”…

    But I need to put on my big girl panties, and stop self-pitying myself. And what you’re saying makes a lot of sense. And it’s a little surprising that my best friend had said something very similar: “Just go with it and enjoy the sex; what so wrong in being hung up on a f*ck-buddy? You’ve had worse guys to be hung up on!” – but my best friend is a guy, and I just assumed he comes from a male (and hedonistic) point of view. But seeing the same idea from Rori Raye… makes me really think it over! Thank you!

    Now, examining myself, I can see that I’ve been mean and wrong towards him. Yes, he might not be willing to have a real relationship with me (after all, he’s away at sea more than half of the time), but I know he’s not willingly trying to hurt me or use me. He’s been very sweet, wanting to kiss me (he’s an amazingly creative kisser!) and pleasure me and cuddle and wrap his arms around me – and eat pizza on his couch, every two weeks or so, when he’s in town. Right now I feel so stupid (and crying as I’m writing this). I should really, really just go with it. And convince myself that I don’t want more, and don’t have any dramatic and silly “talk” with him. But parts of me still really wants an answer. I think it’s the same self-defeating part of me that made me have a talk with a guy I was in love with, basically forcing him to reject me to his face, even though he had told a friend of mine to tell me he’s “not interested in that way” (sounds like middle school drama, but I was actually a senior in college!) I needed to hear the rejection personally, to be able to stop hoping (I didn’t stop, but it felt masochistically good at the time). So maybe now, with all the scenarios, I was just trying to create a situation in which I can be rejected again. It feels horrible to admit it.

    Anyway, I will have to see what I will do. The best thing right now is to stop thinking and overthinking it, and just see if he texts me when he gets back. And just do what feels best in the moment. But I’m afraid I will just convince myself that it’s ok, and it would feel fake afterwards. Grrrrrrr!!!! I feel so helpless and angry right now. I had no problem with the other two guys, because I had no expectations, I didn’t even want to hear from them again – so I was able to just be with them in the few hours we had, and receive tenderness and pleasure from them. But since this one invited me for coffee, I automatically put all the “dating” pressure on the poor guy. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!! I feel tempted to go into all sorts of what-ifs and should-haves and self-recrimination, but I’ll stop. I just need to figure out how to go with Rori’s advice. Do I need to abandon my plan of saying it would feel good to go out with him? This feels so difficult. I feel like a pouting little child, and I feel ashamed of it. 🙁



  84.  #84Arachne on May 10, 2013 at 9:45 am

    Oh, God, Rori! I feel so moved by your comment in 81… Wow. Thank you so, so much for sharing.

    I hope I will be able to realize what my “learning situation” is. *sigh*



  85.  #85Arachne on May 10, 2013 at 9:46 am

    Indigo – thank you, and big hugs back!



  86.  #86Arachne on May 10, 2013 at 10:00 am

    “The problem all along – for me – was a lack of clarity” (Rori) – YES! Goddammit, yes! If I knew, for sure, and from him, that he just wants the sex and cuddling and companionship, I could probably be ok with it. But HOW can I ask for this clarity, without seeming like the self-hating doormat that I might well be in that first version that I posted above? And without turning him off and making him wrong and pushing him away? I don’t think I can just “go with it” as long as part of me resents him from being unclear. How do I find peace of mind, how do I “let go of the outcome”, how do I respect him and let go of trying to be in control? 🙁

    I am sorry for writing so much, I don’t want to monopolize the thread. Now I will go wash my face and get dressed and go out. A random guy that I’m not attracted to want to meet me, and I’m ok with it – dating site; no sex, just Circular Dating and interacting and flirting – why does it feel so simple and ok when I know where I stand and how to put my boundaries? Right now I’m angry on “the” guy for taking me out for coffee in the first place (when I asked him why he did it, he said he liked how “real” and “normal” my profile was, and he never met anyone from such a site before, and meeting for coffee was the only thing he knew). Anyway, I’m talking to much. I should stop thinking about it and take things as they come. I’ll keep you ladies posted when/if he contact me again.

    Rori – feel free to use any of this in any future posts/writing you want to do, I feel happy if it can at least help other women.



  87.  #87Femininewoman on May 10, 2013 at 10:07 am

    Arachne you apologize a lot. I would look at why.

    You are worthy of attention, love and expressing yourself the way it feels best to you.



  88.  #88Femininewoman on May 10, 2013 at 10:08 am

    It is okay to make a decision then change your mind. You went into it for sex, or so you thought, but now your body is wanting more.



  89.  #89Kath on May 10, 2013 at 10:35 am

    Arachne, don’t doubt yourself and the impact you have obviously had on this guy- even if he can’t give you the relationship you are maybe looking for ultimately- he can help you shape how you want it when it comes along. Enjoy!



  90.  #90Rori Raye on May 10, 2013 at 10:36 am

    Arachne – The answer to all of this is : Practice. Experience. You retrain your mind and reactions through Practice. Love, Rori



  91.  #91Femininewoman on May 10, 2013 at 10:45 am

    Everytime I look at the name Arachne for some reason it conjures up an image of a spider in my mind. So I looked it up and found “Nymphs were said to abandon their frolicking to come observe Arachne practice her magic. So remarkable were her works that observers often commented that she must have been trained by the very patron goddess of weaving, Athena herself. Arachne scoffed at this. She was disgusted at being placed in an inferior place to the goddess and proclaimed that Athena herself could not do better than her.”

    http://www.pantheon.org/articles/a/arachne.html

    She seemed very confident and sure of herself.



  92.  #92Sassy on May 10, 2013 at 10:45 am

    Rori-re:” The problem all along – for me – was a lack of clarity. Every encounter is new, different, and doesn’t fit into a box. It’s all about the learning – and the investment you make in a particular situation. I do not disparage the learning, under any circumstances. What I DO not want for any of you is an investment of time, energy, love and heart into a situation where the learning has been COMPLETED. Where you are simply repeating a pattern because you haven’t ABSORBED the learning from the last-go-round. And still – I champion your going through the same situation over and over again until the learning IS absorbed – and you can move on to the next experience.”
    Thank you thank you thank you! This one paragraph has done more for me in my journey than you could possibly know. I’m just wondering if I WILL ever absorb and learn!



  93.  #93Kath on May 10, 2013 at 11:30 am

    Speaking your truth and having the confidence and the courage to do it- that is the thing that takes time for me- Its a life long worry that I won’t be heard or accepted for what I think and feel and that my feelings will be disrespected- again, life long experience and one that counselling did deal with- its just that I seem to have continued putting myself in the same situations yet expecting different results- and we all know what that;s the definition of!!- I do know what I’m worth though and what I want and need- just need to match that with how to go about getting it!



  94.  #94CurvySiren10 on May 10, 2013 at 12:13 pm

    Indigo, I feel so excited reading your updates and about the date that has you excited!! Great progress, very proud and excited for you to be growing this way! Hope it was all you’d hoped for! 🙂



  95.  #95sophie on May 10, 2013 at 12:36 pm

    There’s been masses discussed on this thread! So much information in there.

    ‘if he’s not taking you out in public for coffee or a walk – that’s a sign it’s not going to go anywhere – and, again – why exactly do you care?’

    I have this with a man I’ve been sleeping with and it feels sad seeing it there in black and white 🙁 He wanted to take me out, once, on Valentine’s Day but we got into some heavy stuff and it didn’t happen. He’s not offered again. I’ve been up and down with this situation. I KNOW I’m not in a relationship with him – he told me and after some boomeranging I accepted this and feel relatively peaceful. We enjoy our time together, I don’t feel like he’s out looking for other women (more terrified of any commitment) and I remind myself EVERY day that I am single and to watch any attachment to him…I think I’m ok but I don’t like seeing Rori’s comment ‘cos I know I’m not getting what I want and that feels sad :(. I want other men to date. I really do…



  96.  #96sophie on May 10, 2013 at 1:11 pm

    Sassy I agree that statement is powerful for me too – every situation is different and that’s what makes it tricky 🙂 but also wonderful if seen from a learning perspective – with the current CD it has definitely been a learning experience to have not been able to ‘throw him in the cage’ and to HAVE to consciously work on staying unattached and focused on myself. I would never have had a clue how to do any of that if I hadn’t have found Rori.



  97.  #97Arachne on May 10, 2013 at 1:13 pm

    Back from the short date with this uninteresting guy. I don’t want to see him again, but it felt refreshing to just be out in a pub drinking a beer. And then I took a long bus drive and looked at the mountains and the water and listened to music in my headphones and felt a little more peaceful and grateful to be able to live in such a beautiful place… I’m practicing, Rori, I’m practicing, slowly and painstakingly… *sigh*

    I feel a little like blushing, with all the attention I’ve been given in this thread. Thank you, Rori, thank you, dear Sirens!

    Femininewoman – thank you, again! Yes, I’ve always said “sorry” a lot, and I’ve always been a little socially awkward – the type that bumps into a door and then apologizes to the door, heehee. Now I almost feel like apologizing for apologizing, but I won’t. :p Hehe, I do feel in a much better mood now. And yes, the name “Arachne” is borrowed from Greek mythology – hers was my favorite legend from Ovid’s metamorphoses, which I studied in high school. And I loved the idea of a mortal challenging a Goddess (Athena, to a weaving contest) and winning! The myth is infused with beautiful symbolism (creating stories/literature as weaving, man challenging the Creator through creative act, even life life as a web woven by some greater Creator). Plus, borrowing this mythological name makes me feel closer to my geeky past… 🙂 And as I’m writing this, showcasting my nerdiness, I’m listening to this very beautiful song about the same character: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eqj2aSHRTTc – ” may be fragile, fighting through, but they say that silk is bulletproof”… Oh, to be as strong and soft as silk! *sigh*

    Kath – thank you! I don’t know how, but I will try to enjoy…



  98.  #98Millie on May 10, 2013 at 1:33 pm

    I feel sad and lonely today. I love reading everyone’s stories and I wish I had a CD rotation to share. I’m not seeing anyone right now. I know it is partly because I’ve been consumed by school and haven’t had time for a social life, but it still feels disheartening. I miss sex, I miss touch, I miss affection, but I don’t want to reach out to anyone from my past just for sex. I’ve done that before, and it does not feel good. I don’t like online dating either…it feel unnatural and contrived. I guess the solution is to just go out and be out.



  99.  #99Dancing Siren on May 10, 2013 at 1:37 pm

    That ‘is your man a snack’ article of Rori’s is really resonating with me right now.

    I don’t know if he is.

    And I sure know I have some different ideas.

    Feeling a little anxious right now.

    I left tearfully earlier and sent him a text and haven’t heard anything back.

    I am going to have a soothing bath in a minute.

    Also I am going to keep forging ahead with making my own travel plans to myself, and just see what happens.



  100.  #100sophie on May 10, 2013 at 2:31 pm

    the ‘is your man a snack’ is a brilliant post x fits with my situation too and a lot of whats been talked about here x



  101.  #101Zia on May 10, 2013 at 4:48 pm

    Alright ladies today is the big test – my ex is coming to pick up his stuff, I hope I can just be open and warm towards him no matter what. I have the date tonight and another date tomorrow morning which definitely helps with my mindset, and to not get drawn in by him and what he might be putting emotionally!



  102.  #102Arachne on May 10, 2013 at 4:55 pm

    Good luck, Zia!



  103.  #103April Rose on May 10, 2013 at 5:39 pm

    Hmmm.
    So, I missed EM’s call. First time in six months he has phoned or texted.
    I called back. No answer.
    And no return call since then (3 days ago).
    Feels a little weird….



  104.  #104April Rose on May 10, 2013 at 5:39 pm

    Hmmm.
    So, I missed EM’s call. First time in six months he has phoned or texted.
    I called back. No answer.
    And no return call since then (3 days ago).
    Feels a little weird….



  105.  #105April Rose on May 10, 2013 at 5:40 pm

    Oooh, that’s odd. My posting came up twice.



  106.  #106Heart on May 10, 2013 at 6:40 pm

    Turquoise, FW, Beloved – Hmmm thanks for the advice. I’ve explored it and decided I’ll wish him a happy bday next year…lol.
    I still feel a little raw about the dating experience with him and don’ think it’s a good idea to start any kind of contact.
    I’ve explored it and realize that I’m torn…I feel angry and don’t want to Give him anything…but I also feel sentimental and want to show my care.
    I figure it’s best to Do Nothing when you yourself are not exactly sure what your expectations are..



  107.  #107Luzydel on May 10, 2013 at 8:00 pm

    put this in an old threat…

    Im kinda not feeling online dating at this time… I feel empty and fake, so I closed my profiles and will date myself for a while; unless I meet someone in a more organic way etc.

    Summer usually turn to date myself season for some unknown reason. I just want love, not a ring, or a piece of paper or any of those things… I just want to share love…

    Back to me time!…



  108.  #108Heart on May 10, 2013 at 9:35 pm

    Btw blog – do you all ever realise that friends and aquaintances stary talking like you….that they use the word feel alot and some of your expressions…



  109.  #109Heart on May 10, 2013 at 9:54 pm

    Also – I’ve starting realizing that for me – Masculine energy is a defense mechanism….it’s like armor in some cases. It feels off when falling into it to relate to a man…It’s like I’m scared you’ll hurt me so I’m going to act tough…



  110.  #110Zia on May 10, 2013 at 10:42 pm

    That felt more difficult than I was expecting it to 🙁
    But at least now his stuff is out, and I can move forward and see what next.

    I don’t even think I want him back to be honest, which is good.



  111.  #111Heart on May 10, 2013 at 10:53 pm

    good for you Zia…babysteps



  112.  #112Zia on May 10, 2013 at 11:56 pm

    I’m actually glad my date cancelled for tonight, I am still feeling quite emotionally drained after today.



  113.  #113Katarina Phang on May 11, 2013 at 12:22 am

    This is why I love Rori. She’s not a prude (#78). There’s too much shame and guilt around sex. It’s a beautiful thing even in itself when you go into it fully aware and in the moment.



  114.  #114angela on May 11, 2013 at 12:31 am

    There is a big part of me that is resisting your work Rori and yet I find myself in your blog most days.
    I feel that it is easier for me to just take in all your advice that is based on healing ourselves.

    The dating part makes me skeptical angry I don’t know what it does to me.
    I end up with the same questions all the time. I guess in a way I am doubtful of this approach to love, lean back and receive.
    What is it about the leaning back that makes a relationship healthy? I mean I understand that when you are being needy pushy it will most likely push a man away. But leaning back and playing with our feminine or being feminine does what to a man?
    Is it in a woman’s nature to just be opened to receiving love?
    Is it just the people like me who never had good role models who do this type of needy thing with men.
    It makes more sense to me that way.
    It makes more sense to think that we knew all along in our hearts how to deal with relationships with men but just forgot
    It makes more sense to think That most women know what to do with a man yet some of us on this blog forgot or were badly hurt and got lost along the way.
    Is that the case?
    I feel lost yet kinda happy writing this because maybe it means that I know what to do around men.
    And that doing is just about expecting great loving things to come my way.
    That I deserve love just because.
    That maybe I do not have to work so hard and maybe that is what part of your work is about not working so hard for love. Oh that feels better I feel worthy of love like I can do love. That maybe it wont be that hard. Love Angela



  115.  #115Zia on May 11, 2013 at 12:46 am

    angela: sending big love to you. i think it feels so hard for people like us, because we’re so used to always working, trying to be in control, that “leaning back” and just receiving feels like more effort!

    if you visit a few other sites – such as evan marc katz… you’ll find that many male dating experts teach the exact same thing rori does. i’ve settled on evan and rori as my two “relationships coaches” as their views and styles compliment each other – and it is also really comforting to hear similar advice from a man, just in case we’re not 100% convinced 😉



  116.  #116Kath on May 11, 2013 at 12:53 am

    Well its over-well and truly over-
    We were talking last night and I said I missed the texts he used to send me. His response was “it works both ways”, its always his response when I try and use the tools-immediately bats it back without even thinking about it-like he can;t handle the feelings they may evoke in him. Anyway, I left it at that and then later he said something which triggered me and so I calmly said to him that I would like to hear the truth from him. At first he tried to refuse, saying that I wouldn’t like it and we’d had a couple of beers and he would tell me tomorrow, but I said it would be fine, I just wanted to hear the truth. He said I am a bully- I was so stunned, but I listened to what he had to say. It was truly amazing to hear. All the things that I had raised as concerns for me he pushed back to me as things that were wrong with me!- He then said that he’d thought about the rally at the end of the month and he wanted to go on his own. I said that was fine but it also meant that we were finished. After he’d finished I said how I felt and he got really angry and said that I had overstepped the mark and then picked up a bottle and threw it at the window-it smashed to pieces-and he didn’t stop there. He just kept throwing things-anything he could lay his hands on, I was stunned. He said that it was all my fault and that I shoujld find somewhere else to live. I left the room and went upstairs to the spare room and bolted the door. He did come upstairs and try the handle but I told him to go away. He just repeated that I should fnd somewhere else to live. I know how crazy this all sounds but you know what, today I don’t even feel sad about it being over- I am relieved. At least I finally have the truth and there is no more pretending he can do. I knew for a long time that his feelings had changed for me and it almost felt as though he was challenging my limits with his behaviour and actions- but perhaps he really can’t see what he does- this is afterall the third relationship where he has done the same things and blamed the woman for it going wrong!-I’m tired of being blamed and for being held responsible for his bad behaviour.



  117.  #117Heart on May 11, 2013 at 1:07 am

    Zia – yes but leaning back while obsessing about a guy…is kind of meaningless…Leaning back is just a tool to help you do the inner work.



  118.  #118sophie on May 11, 2013 at 1:18 am

    wow (((Lisa))) do you have a plan about what you’re going to do? (((hugs)))



  119.  #119Zia on May 11, 2013 at 1:26 am

    I’m feeling the love arrows flying at me today. It’s funny the way things out, my ex was supposed to come collect his things a few times and never turned up. But now that I have a few guys in the email/date/phone rotation, today was perfect timing! Because I am in touch with these other men and they’re all being really lovely and it completely takes my mind off the guy who wasn’t right for me anyway!

    I feel much better 🙂



  120.  #120sophie on May 11, 2013 at 1:45 am

    Yay Zia! I love that 🙂 I had that experience after my last break up and it really really does help x another thing I just would never have known, or thought of doing without Rori and the blog 🙂



  121.  #121Femininewoman on May 11, 2013 at 1:59 am

    (((((((((((((((Kath)))))))))))))))) that sucks. I hope you will be safe. Do you have options?



  122.  #122Kath on May 11, 2013 at 2:08 am

    Its been going round and round in my head that he called me a bully-it doesn’t sit comfortably with me because that is exactly what I have been thinking about him- though I haven’t called him that. But having discovered that he is not the man he shows to the world but very different- he needs a strong woman to take the lead but then hates it when she does!- Its confusing- I have been walking on egg shells around him for months and I just got plain bored of it. The kitchen is a mess this morning- glass everywhere- I’ve left it and have started moving my things into the spare room- removing all signs of me from the main living areas. He’s still in his room, I don’t want to see him and I certainly don’t want to talk to him-just have to plan how quickly I can leave here now. Oh God, I wish I’d stayed in my little house.



  123.  #123Kath on May 11, 2013 at 2:11 am

    Thanks FW- I sure need a huge hug right now!- the word “options” made me smile- that’s what he likes to have!- no, I don’t have any options. I don’t get paid until the end of the month, I don’t have any savings and I have a lot of stuff to move- I wish I’d not done this-I really do. I just have to find the best way through this and leave as soon as I can, but he now has ALL the power because its his house-I feel really really bad.



  124.  #124sophie on May 11, 2013 at 2:15 am

    I’m so sorry Kath I commented to you but called you Lisa eek feel cringy didn’t sleep much last night so hope apology is accepted x ((hugs))



  125.  #125Kath on May 11, 2013 at 2:20 am

    Sophie, no worries-apology accepted- thank you for your kind words. In the cold light of day I feel really really sad now. I have known for a while it would end this way but hate the fact that it ended the way it did. There is no way back from what happened last night and he has already reverted back to the way he was when I met him. Perhaps he thought he’d try and be something different with another woman but it didn’t work because it feels like at the end of the day he wants his cake and eat it. He doesn’t want to understand the woman’s point of view and he has shown that he certainly won’t respect it. I have felt as though I have been trodden on- doesn’t feel good.



  126.  #126sophie on May 11, 2013 at 2:27 am

    Thanks Kath. I didn’t like that he said you were a bully – name calling is never ok in my opinion, never loving or respectful. I had a relationship that ended in a very explosive way and I felt very vulnerable for a while after. I had to do a lot of healing especially around hurtful things that he had said to me. I don’t regret it for a second now though I feel happy that I managed to leave and I hope that I have got stronger from that experience.

    I feel for you being in the same house. I have never had that experience and can’t imagine how difficult that may be.



  127.  #127Indigo on May 11, 2013 at 2:28 am

    (((Kath)))

    It is always amazing to me how people who behave like that can find it in themselves to blame someone else entirely for the situation, to the point of accusing them of things and calling them names which more accurately belong to themselves. My therapist mentioned that it is an ego-defence mechanism – they literally cannot handle the reality of their own imperfections.

    You sound really great and strong. We are all here for you. I hope you are able to make some arrangements that will be good for you.



  128.  #128sophie on May 11, 2013 at 2:31 am

    I agree with Indigo x you sound strong and I hope you are able to make some arrangements that will be good for you



  129.  #129Indigo on May 11, 2013 at 2:34 am

    Thank you CurvySiren, so much! 🙂

    Thank you for saying that, I am in a really good place at the moment. I am proud of me too! 🙂

    My date last night was really lovely – it lasted 6 hours. We had a lavish dinner, which he paid for in full, and then he asked if I wanted to go across the road to the pub for drinks (where we had several), which was lovely too, which he also paid for. And then he invited me back to his place for chamomile tea – it was freezing and he made me tea and put the heater on for me. He was sweet, putting his hand on my back as we were walking and giving me a few hugs for the cold – I kept hoping he would kiss me, though he didn’t. He did say I made him nervous though, in a good way.

    It was lovely though, I got a text from him when I got home saying how much he had enjoyed my company. He seems like a gentleman, so maybe I will have to wait for the kiss 😉



  130.  #130Kath on May 11, 2013 at 2:40 am

    Thanks Indigo and Sophie, I am crying as I write this, You are absolutely right that he is unable to face himself. I wanted a man who was strong and able to be in touch with his emotions and understand them, but he has shown that he has little understanding and certainly no regard for how his actions and behaviour feel to me. I am shaking inside and I don;t know whether that’s fear or the unease I feel after what happened last night. All I know is that I do not deserve all the things that he has said to me. I feel as though it has been me who has had to make all the changes and allowances and he has done nothing, just carried on as he always has, and that is not right. I do not want or need a man who cannot face himself and take responsibility for himself and his actions.



  131.  #131BeLoved on May 11, 2013 at 3:32 am

    Kath

    I would consider whether there might be some truth in his words.
    Telling him you missed the texts, isn’t ‘using the tools’, it is making him wrong for not sending them.
    You and he are doing the same thing.
    He won’t see from his perspective and you won’t see from his.
    Can you face YOU, where you might be a bully?
    Can you face YOU, where you might actually be “the needy, horrible woman he saw a few weeks ago”.
    Like it or not, that was YOU, not the whole you, an aspect of you, can you face that instead of worrying about you think he needs to face?
    This tells me there is some inquiry and learning to be done around “neediness” with you.

    What are your beliefs around ‘need’? Do you know what your needs are, and how to get them met without making him responsible for meeting them? Do you believe you deserve to have them met?

    You ASKED for the truth, you got what you asked for, and he was right, you don’t like it, and are projecting it back on him.
    If I told someone I didn’t want to talk about something right then, and they disrespected that and talked me into doing something I didn’t feel right about doing, I’d probably feel bullied.



  132.  #132BeLoved on May 11, 2013 at 3:48 am

    FW

    I meant to tell you that I cried when I read the comment you wrote – last week? – about trusting I would inquire more deeply into the stuff with T. I really REALLY wanted to hear what you had to say about it, and when all you initially responded with was “oh, my”, I was like….crap, she’s not buying into this 😉

    T called me last night and we talked for a long time and …wow, even more delicious, fun and deeper levels of intimacy. Leaning way back was so exactly the right thing to do, it brought up stuff for him that felt really good to talk about.

    My heart felt like a clear light, talking to him about asking for what I want.

    I may write about it later, because it part of it was so fun and lighthearted in talking about explicit requests.



  133.  #133BeLoved on May 11, 2013 at 3:57 am

    Kath

    I would also look back and notice whether this was a pattern for me – to look for trouble when things seem to be going okay for a minute.

    How did you go from this, ” “this is nice-I’m really enjoying this” which was so lovely to hear. He left some money out for me this morning and I sent him a text to say thank you- he didn’t respond and I found myself really missing the texts he used to send me and the words of love I used to hear.”

    to focusing on missing the texts and a painful evening?

    When he didn’t respond, what story did you tell yourself? What did you make that mean?
    How did that become more important than feeling appreciation for his verbal and monetary expressions of love and appreciation?



  134.  #134Kath on May 11, 2013 at 4:17 am

    Beloved, it is very hard to read what you have said and yes, I know that I have to look at myself and believe me- I really am. I have self worth issues and fear of rejection and do find it very difficult to voice my feelings. There have been a number of things which have happened in recent months which have rung alarm bells for me and when I have tried to speak about how they make me feel, he gets frustrated, irritated and doesn’t understand and then loses his temper, which scares me and I go quiet. He said to me recently that he feels nothing ever gets resolved between us because he always compromises. When I asked him what he meant by that he said he never agreed with the compromise. He said I always make him feels as though he’s in the wrong-but it is me who feels that her feelings are wrong and that she shouldn’t have them because he says so. He has become so distant and cold when he speaks to me that yes, it has triggered things from my past and I have had difficulty coping with the feelings. I have tried to do Rori’s tools and lean back and focus on me but whenever he and I have been in the same room it feels as though there is a huge gap between us and it feels horrible. Last night I was hurt by the fact that he said he wanted to go to the rally on his own because there will be several of his female friends there (and with whom he has history with all of them!) and there was no attempt by him to show any care towards me of how that might make me feel-like he’d given up being considerate and caring about my feelings. For me, that was a step too far-I felt really uncomfortable with that and at that moment knew there was no future for us- I need a man who is going to understand my feelings and take care of them not keep pushing me as I feel he has done- I don’t think I have been a bully, I just think that I have tried to stand my ground and say what I feel and what I believe and I have not been heard-His wife was paranoid about him having any contact with other females, his x-girlfriend was too and because I have been honest about my feelinsg he has now put me in the same category. Whilst I can take responsibilty of my feelings I am not going to be made to feel that I am also responsible for his.



  135.  #135Kath on May 11, 2013 at 4:27 am

    When you say that we were both doing the same thing- him not seeing my perspective and me not seeing his- I completely agree. However, the reason why he doesn’t see my perspective is that he sees it as my problem and I have to deal with it- he will simply carry on doing whatever it is and I have to lump it. That to me is not someone who is mindful of how their actions and behaviour can be interpreted by others. I am not saying that they should stop doing whatever it is but if I say that I feel uncomfortable in a situation where I am in the company of four to five women who are all friends together with him and knowing that they have all had intimate relationships with him- I would hope that he would want to reassure me that its ok- but there has been none of that- so my confidence and trust in “us” has not been nurtured and allowed to grow. His saying that he wanted to go to the rally on his own was just another slap in the face for me.



  136.  #136Kath on May 11, 2013 at 4:32 am

    It is horrible when you hear your guy say “We” when he’s talking about a relationship thing and knowing that the “we” isn’t you and him- he never says that about us- it always comes out as “I”- perhaps I am making too much of this but it is just one of the things that have made me doubt that there is any genuine feelings for me because of the amount of times he talks about his wife and their marriage.



  137.  #137Indigo on May 11, 2013 at 4:36 am

    Kath,

    “when I have tried to speak about how they make me feel, he gets frustrated, irritated and doesn’t understand and then loses his temper”

    ” He has become so distant and cold when he speaks to me”

    There was a time when such treatment would also make me retreat, keep quiet, question my part in triggering this person. Yet now, I actually see this for the bad mannered, aggressive behaviour it is. There are those who might say what did you do to contribute to this situation, but I am sorry, this behaviour is intimidation, pure and simple. It is designed to get you to back off your position and let them continue whatever it was they were doing which you didn’t like.

    I usually call it out by pointing out the facts, and then I disengage. I have found that with calm assertiveness, the person does treat you with considerably more respect over time. Yet, a relationship like this is one you want to question whether you want to invest too heavily in.

    Just my opinion/experience 😉



  138.  #138Heart on May 11, 2013 at 4:42 am

    Sometimes I feel these FMs are dangerous…lol…
    Rori’s should have a disclaimer on them…



  139.  #139Kath on May 11, 2013 at 4:43 am

    Indigo, Exactly!- you are absolutely right!- It is manipulation and control and yet another example of his need to be in control and to do whatever he wants when he wants to do it. To call me a bully is because he doesn’t like the fact that I have said “no, I don’t accept that, I don’t like it”. To him, as long as everything is going his way, life is fine. Some of things that he told me about previous relationships have alarmed me and made me question the type of person he is. I know he is not an honest person and that has been the biggest issue for me because I need someone who is open and honest and he isn’t. He has lied to me and kept things from me and has admitted that he has done it because he didn’t want me to react. That is hardly the behaviour of a man who cares about you and loves you is it?



  140.  #140Femininewoman on May 11, 2013 at 5:15 am

    Kath when you live in a man’s house, regardless of whether you are paying for everything, accept that he has all the power. Unless you don’t want anything more than what he is offering.

    I am loving what Beloved is saying to you. I was just going through some info about the Respect Principle on google and I am wondering if he doesn’t feel respected by you. Saying you are a bully might be for lack of a better word, for him. I think he is feeling something that he can’t describe so he is doing his best. It is blaming and criticising but maybe that is the way he knows how to fight.

    I would be careful about assuming about manipulation and control. This is not to disqualify what you know and are experiencing with him. It is about looking at things from his perspective, respecting his opinion and using the information he has volunteered to look inside yourself to activate your best self. Also what he has said could cause you to become angry and jaded. To the point of shutting down your heart. I too hate name calling. Yet another way to handle this could be to agree with him. Tell him that things have been awful and you are wondering if he is the man for you.



  141.  #141Indigo on May 11, 2013 at 5:15 am

    Kath,

    He may well love you and care about you, yet he has these issues and they are quite big by the sounds of it, so yes it is very good that you are figuring out that this doesn’t work for you and what you do and don’t want.



  142.  #142Indigo on May 11, 2013 at 5:18 am

    What FW has said in 140 is a very useful aspect to look at, as well.

    What you said FW, reminds me of how difficult it is, if not impossible, to maintain your siren strength and power when you are staying in a man’s house.



  143.  #143Femininewoman on May 11, 2013 at 5:20 am

    “His saying that he wanted to go to the rally on his own was just another slap in the face for me.”

    Maybe he sees it as you having insecurities (jealousy issues) that you need to deal with. Or maybe he is showing you that he values his freedom more than he values the relationship.



  144.  #144Femininewoman on May 11, 2013 at 5:25 am

    He might be feeling emasculated and the only way he knows how to quell the feeling is by lashing out. Also I learned from CCarter that emotions are contagious, whatever we bring will be reflected back to us. It for me is somewhat the same as “what you see in the outside world is a reflection of what is going on inside of me”.

    I don’t know anything for sure but I know that I get change from the people I interact with when I change. I have to consciously choose to be different when I want a different result.



  145.  #145Kath on May 11, 2013 at 5:31 am

    Thank you, I can’t tell you how much I need to hear all this, even though some of it is very hard to hear. Indigo, I’m afraid its gone too far this time to ever recover from what happened last night- there is no going back from where we are. I don’t feel cared for and respected by him and he thinks I’m a bully. So, he’s had a loopy Lou, a psycho and now a bully!- but I so wish he hadn’t seem it that way. I have felt so down about us over the past few months because I haven’t felt important to him and I have seen him pull away and the love and care stop and yes, I suppose that made a circle of pain because no matter what I did, he couldn’t see past it. He said it was who had to control her temper but didn’t say that he had to do anything different and so I haven’t felt any different. I wish I could go back in time but I can’t and I wish that things had been different but they’re not. I feel so bad.



  146.  #146Kath on May 11, 2013 at 5:37 am

    #143 and 144FW,

    Yes- I took him saying that he wanted to go to the rally on his own as him saying he valued his freedom more than the relationship. He told me a few weeks ago that he had no confidence in our relationship and pretty much shut off then. I tried to explain what had happened and what I felt and he said he would give it another chance if I could control my temper, but I haven’t felt there has been any change at all. Whilst he says he understands how I feel he so obviously hasn’t and then by saying that he was “at the moment” not going to the rally and then changing that to “I want to go on my own”-it messed with my head and made me realise there is no point in me trying to show him anything different because he isn’t going to be prepared to see it anyway.



  147.  #147Femininewoman on May 11, 2013 at 5:38 am

    “When you say that we were both doing the same thing- him not seeing my perspective and me not seeing his- I completely agree. However, the reason why he doesn’t see my perspective is that he sees it as my problem and I have to deal with it- he will simply carry on doing whatever it is and I have to lump it. That to me is not someone who is mindful of how their actions and behaviour can be interpreted by others.”

    This reminds me of one coach who suggests avoid being in a state of constant disagreeing. It also reminds me of the Respect Principle. If you disagree with a man’s opinion he is likely to feel disrespected. In a survey men indicated that they would choose to be respected over being loved. Maybe it is the reason Rori encourages putting your hand over your mouth at times (if need be) and to Listen at Level 2.

    Also men do what they want to do. Trying to control them never works. It is not his problem how his behavior or actions would be interpreted by someone. We always have the option of choosing what and who we engage in and with. Always grow respect for yourself first. Then you will likely to be able to respect others. When people experience you respecting yourself it is also likely that they will respect you.



  148.  #148Femininewoman on May 11, 2013 at 5:45 am

    “made me realise there is no point in me trying to show him anything different”

    This to me is a great realization. You might have been trying too hard, which men find unattractive. You need to show yourself something different, not him. You are the important one in your life. Trying to show him something different could be experienced as aggresive and controlling also. Maybe too much explaining without the actions that men need to see/hear. This is what they respond to.

    Him going on his own could likely give him the space he needs to really look at his life and how he has been. All these “______” women he has manifested in his life is about the program he is running in his own head. It has nothing to do with you. He has to choose to rewrite his story.



  149.  #149Femininewoman on May 11, 2013 at 5:47 am

    I believe the distance and coldness is partially to cover up his true emotions.



  150.  #150BeLoved on May 11, 2013 at 5:53 am

    “made me realise there is no point in me trying to show him anything different”

    Except that he showed YOU something different, he DID notice something was different, he remarked on it and left you money. You chose to focus on the past and missing texts.

    What FW said, YOU need to show YOU something different. He saw it. He liked it. He said so. He gave you money.
    It’s you who won’t let you change.



  151.  #151Femininewoman on May 11, 2013 at 5:53 am

    “That to me is not someone who is mindful of how their actions and behaviour can be interpreted by others.”

    Is this your intuition speaking or your thinking brain?



  152.  #152Femininewoman on May 11, 2013 at 5:55 am

    Beloved I have to go back to the other thread to see your comments to see if I remember what I was thinking when I made that comment.



  153.  #153Femininewoman on May 11, 2013 at 5:58 am

    “It’s you who won’t let you change.”

    Reminds me of Rori’s tool about changing your drawers and her advice about keeping life in a state of flux. It helps the mind to find ways to change and to accept change.



  154.  #154Kath on May 11, 2013 at 5:58 am

    FW-Yes, he has to figure it out- he said that he can’t handle my abuse-but I seriously wasn’t abusing him, I was saying how it made me feel when he talked about his wife and when he name called me and how he could see me as a bully and how I felt that he had already made up his mind about us by going to the rally on his own. He said if I truly loved him I wouldn’t have screamed and shouted at him as I do- but if he truly loved me he wouldn’t talk about his x’s so often would he?!- He would want to enjoy us here and now and plan for our future instead of saying what happened before. I really feel that there has been a pattern for both of us here in that we are both doers in the relationship-I know I have a lot of learning to do, but I thought I had found someone who understood me- obviously I was wrong.



  155.  #155Femininewoman on May 11, 2013 at 6:04 am

    He said if I truly loved him I wouldn’t have screamed and shouted at him as I do – can you see his point here? Can love be bred in that environement?

    – if he truly loved me he wouldn’t talk about his x’s so often would he?!- Why does it have to be an assumption that he does not love you? This seem to me like his issue and Rori says to deal with your issue not his. To me your issue here is jealousy, if any. Also I would want to be asking myself what is my intuition telling me. If it is that he is not over his ex, I would want to be asking myself what it is about me that wants to be with a man who is still emotionally invested in another woman or not over his ex.



  156.  #156Kath on May 11, 2013 at 6:05 am

    #151FW,
    What is it they say?- treat others as you would like to be treated?- Well I do, and I wouldn’t dream of talking about an X to my guy now as often, as though I am processing all the stuff that happened in that relationship and trying to rationalise it. I know it would be insensitive to do that and may hurt or even annoy the other person. He has told me that it is my issue- why is it my issue when its him who keeps talking about her?-how can that be my issue???



  157.  #157Femininewoman on May 11, 2013 at 6:10 am

    Kath there is a coach who says three strikes and you are out with a man. I believe it is Lauren Frances. She talks about Male Attention Deficit Disorder. There is another coach who says to say it once and then leave it. Trust that he heard you. There are others who say when you keep repeating things men experience it as nagging.

    Think about saying something once in a calm clear voice. Then walking away. After that “ouch” could work when he brings up the ex again and walking away. Maybe you feel you have no option when he talks about the wife, but you do. When you shout and scream a man cannot hear you because he likely goes into emotional hyjack. This is a biological response so his resources go toward protect himself from an attack. Believe he physically cannot hear.



  158.  #158Femininewoman on May 11, 2013 at 6:11 am

    RE 156 – Your anger. Your anger that you are not dealing with.



  159.  #159Femininewoman on May 11, 2013 at 6:12 am

    You might very well be angry with yourself for putting yourself in this situation and choosing to remain in it.



  160.  #160BeLoved on May 11, 2013 at 6:13 am

    I’m reminded of a conversation with T a few weeks ago – when we Skyped – he was leaning back in his chair. First I noticed how horrible I was feeling, and I told him, “I notice you are leaning back in your chair. The story I’m making up about that is that you want all the attention on you, you want all the focus on you, you want to suck me into your orbit and lean forward and be all about you” or something along those lines.

    I remember the vulnerable feeling in my gut, the twinges and the feeling of exposure and rawness, as if my intestines were literally outside of my body and exposed to the air, it felt so vulnerable – to call my thoughts a ‘story’ instead of clinging to the belief and insistence that I was right in my interpretation, and clinging to my image of T, as an enemy, an adversary….
    oooohhhhhhh…..I remember the feeling of quivering in my most vulnerable places in my body….

    T grinned and said, “that’s quite a story!”, then nothing, graciously allowing me to marinate in my feelings rather than try to rescue me from them or reassure me…
    hahahaha omg and the feeling passed and I felt AMAZING!!!!! All those scary feelings that said I might die if…..
    and I didn’t die.
    Some illusions died, an aspect of a false self-image, dissolved
    like fog in the morning sun
    and I felt free
    we laughed
    Intimacy 🙂

    I’ve learned that usually, when I am either attacking for feeling defensive, it’s protecting a false image of self as somehow perfect in ways I couldn’t accept before.
    *I* want everything to be about MEEEE 🙂
    I want HIM to lean forward and be sucked into MY orbit!!
    I don’t feel ashamed about that now, and I told him all that last night, with playful laughter,
    I want this, I want that, want want want want 🙂
    I felt good being the minxy, demanding, capricious woman
    a bottomless pit of wanting, needing, passionate ever-changing desire.
    it made him laugh, because he’s always seen this in me, but neither one of us could really love it until I could love it in me.



  161.  #161Kath on May 11, 2013 at 6:13 am

    FW-yes, you are right, I have been asking myself whether I am seeing the right things or whether it is just jealousy on my part because he loved her very much. I know it is wrong but I am envious of that love, no-one has ever loved me that much. I do respect that between them honestly I do, but it is not fair of him to process that relationship whilst trying to forge a new one. That should have been done a long time before I came along. To be honest I don’t think he has ever processed anything, things he has told me that happened in his marriage and in relationships since make me realise that he has never really spent any time alone-maybe he can’t face being alone. I feel as though our chances of happiness have been threatened because of him not processing anything that has gone before but then blaming me and criticising me for things happening now. Its like the definition of insanity-do the same thing but expect different results. I can’t do that, I can’t feel loved by someone who constantly refers to their former wife and queries what she did and how she behaved. I thought that by telling him how it made me feel he would be respectful enough to curb or even stop talking about her-but its only served to make him think that its my problem and he can’t talk about her to me because of my reaction-he just can’t see that its hurtful.



  162.  #162Femininewoman on May 11, 2013 at 6:13 am

    Do you like someone screaming and shouting at you?



  163.  #163Femininewoman on May 11, 2013 at 6:16 am

    but it is not fair of him to process that relationship whilst trying to forge a new one

    Really?



  164.  #164Femininewoman on May 11, 2013 at 6:17 am

    I know it is wrong but I am envious of that love – I guarantee he feels this and might be using this.



  165.  #165Kath on May 11, 2013 at 6:22 am

    FW, if that is the case, that is so unkind. Where is the respect for my feelings if he is using that for whatever ends. How can he use that any other way than to measure what is lacking in our relationship which has never been allowed to grow?- That is so unfair.



  166.  #166Femininewoman on May 11, 2013 at 6:24 am

    he just can’t see that its hurtful – no he can’t because it might be hurtful to him to keep it in. To me it seems it is his way if showing his insides. It is his way to intimacy, baring what is going on inside of him. It seems he is not good enough for you and you are judging him as broken and flawed. He seems to be begging for acceptance but you cannot accept him as he is because you are so focussed on this other woman and the love had for her. Though I understand that it might be difficult not to because he keeps putting it in your face.

    Seems like you have been playing the tough guy by fighting with him. Maybe he needs a soft feminine woman who walks away sad, crying and falling apart if she believes he loves another woman more than her. A woman who goes out to find the love and happiness she knows she deserves and needs.



  167.  #167Femininewoman on May 11, 2013 at 6:27 am

    Kath you are caught up on fairness? Do you believe he owes you something? Do you want to call in your relationship debt? Maybe he doesn’t feel inspired to let the relationship grow.



  168.  #168Femininewoman on May 11, 2013 at 6:29 am

    If you truly believe he does not respect your feelings isn’t it time to ask yourself some tough questions? As in, why am I here?



  169.  #169Dancing Siren on May 11, 2013 at 6:31 am

    Hello ladies,

    ((((Kath))))

    I just wanted to pop in to say….

    Everything worked out OK here.

    Last night, after leaving feeling tearful, I went off and really went into myself. I drove around a bit to cool off and get into my emotions before I had to go teach.

    Then I send him a text. Basically just saying how I really felt (once I had worked it out) which is that I DON’T want to wait to travel, I want to start now… That yes I can be fast-paced, and that I do have the need for change, challenge, excitement and new places. As long as I can remember I have wanted to travel.

    Yesterday for me felt a lot like accepting a few things about myself. That I am perhaps not perfectly conventional. That I don’t want a conventional life.

    That I do want to travel, and that this is a big deal for me. Simply put, for me in my life, this is something that I intend to do, and soon.

    I said this to him, and I also said I didn’t want to bring drama and misery to both of us.

    I think the drama had come from me struggling against myself, not really wanting exactly what was being offered and being afraid to say so.

    And then to myself I promised that I would follow my truth (what *I* really want in my life) regardless of what he did. And I made that resolve in myself.

    I felt sad in some ways and I also felt strong/good.

    I hoped we would be able to go forward together, and I also resolved to stick with my path regardless of what happened.

    I had no idea how he would respond.

    I wasn’t trying to come up with a solution or fix anything (although I had plenty of long term back up plans in my head for myself), and I wasn’t about to make any hasty decision.

    I just spoke my truth and then sat there and was present.

    When he came home from work. I continued to just go into myself and riff. I did not ask him for anything.

    And then he came to talk to me.

    He asked me some stuff and I just stuck with my feelings and my truth.

    Then he looked at me, looked me right in the eye, and he said ‘OK, we will do it! I need to write down the figures now and then we will do it, we will work out how to make it happen’.

    Errr, WOW!

    This is EXACTLY what I have been carving for for a few weeks. Him to turn around and take action. Him to get on board with me in a way that I can really FEEL.

    And I got it in that moment.

    I felt the intention and the commitment behind it.

    I haven’t stopped grinning since.

    No doubt there will be other phases, and other hurdles, and right now I just feel so delighted!



  170.  #170Femininewoman on May 11, 2013 at 6:32 am


  171.  #171Kath on May 11, 2013 at 6:37 am

    #166FW, thank you, thank you, thank you, I have not been able to see that it was his way of showing me what was going on inside. But you are wrong that I am judging him as broken and flawed-I know he has been very hurt and angry by what happened and I thought I coujld help him come to terms with that-but he doesn’t want that from me and yet still talks about things-he has said I have abused him but I have become so frustrated because he doesn’t hear me-he just keeps going like a ball rolling down a hill unable to stop. My defence has always been anger first but then I cry-desperately, and he has told me he hates that, can’t cope with it-so I am completely left with not knowing what emotions I can show and that he will understand or take on board. I love him very much but I think he has been too quick to find fault with things in our relationship and so often we don’t understand each other-its been very frustrating, it looks as though we are not a good match at all, I so wish I had taken more care of myself.



  172.  #172Arachne on May 11, 2013 at 6:37 am

    Angela – I can SO understand where you’re coming from! I just remember something I’ve once read about weight loss: “If you do the same thing, you will get the same results; if you do the same thing and it doesn’t work, it is stupid to keep doing it, but expect to get new results that do work.” Sorry if it sounds harsh. But it opened my eyes to exploring new tools, new techniques, new advice, new way of being (in many areas of life). Like you, I’m just beginning this journey, but I’m feeling confident it’s on the right track. Hang in there, and good luck!

    Kath – oh, wow! I feel scared and cringe-y even reading this. You were so brave that night, wow! Big hug and I hope it will be easier for you from now on… We all have issues and soul-searching to do and ugly parts of ourselves and work to do… I don’t know what else to day… Big hugs again!

    Indigo – that sounds like a lovely date! Way to go, I feel happy for you!

    BeLoved – wow, so much poetry in your comment! Feels so nice to read it, thanks for sharing that with us!



  173.  #173Heart on May 11, 2013 at 7:02 am

    Kath – this guy sounds Kraay-zee….Run



  174.  #174Smile on May 11, 2013 at 7:08 am

    Oh no, I’m sensing feeling of curiosity around his divorce.
    I want to ask him about this.

    While we were away he showed me the text that said she wanted to start the divorce when we got back from holiday. As he was in love with me and so we could move forward. I’m curious and it’s creating a bit of anxiety. Wondering if they’ve been in touch.

    He really makes me feel loved. In everyway so maybe I just need to let this anxiety move on. I just don’t feel I can commit and invest myself fully whilst there’s still the legal tie for them.

    I’m exclusive with him but I’m circular dating myself 🙂



  175.  #175Smile on May 11, 2013 at 7:10 am

    (((Kath)))



  176.  #176Smile on May 11, 2013 at 7:10 am

    Yey dancing siren!!!



  177.  #177Heart on May 11, 2013 at 7:13 am

    Awwwwr Smile…that’s so cute. He sounds like a great guy.



  178.  #178Smile on May 11, 2013 at 7:20 am

    Thanks heart, he’s truly wonderful! Do you think I need to be anxious about him still being married? Separated nearly 4 years. My fear is if they get back in touch and meet to discuss divorce he might start feeling for her again… Darn these negative thoughts!!



  179.  #179Kath on May 11, 2013 at 7:28 am

    When we first met everything happened so quickly-but then that is the case with every relationship he has had- He used to tell me that he wanted to marry me and we even planned what we wanted at our wedding!- even though he wasn’t (and isn’t) divorced yet. He moved in with me first after 6mths and it felt really right but then he nearly lost his house because he stopped paying the mortgage and his wife refused to pay because she wasn’t living there anymore and he nearly lost it so I agreed to move in with him so that he wouldn’t lose everything. Things have just gone from bad to worse since then-to the point where I felt that he no longer even cared about my feelings. It felt as though it was too much effort for him even though I did listen to him when I was angry with him before and tried to stop getting so frustrated and started saying how I felt. But the lack of affection and the coldness was very hard to cope with and then when this rally came up I just knew I had to let him make his decision on his own. He said that he wouldn’t feel comfortable with me being in the same place as his female friends and although that was an alarm bell to me, I decided that I wouldn’t go. Then he said he probably wouldn’t go and then changed his mind again to say he wanted to go on his own. Yes, he lose all confidence in our relationship, Yes he lost all confidence and faith in me and Yes, I lost my trust in him because I knew he had withheld the truth from me. Nothing that can be done when the foundations of a relationship have gone, no way back from that-so so sad, I am heartbroken. Thank you everyone for letting me vent and for giving me such good advice, you have helped me a lot.



  180.  #180Heart on May 11, 2013 at 7:30 am

    Smile – If it was me, I would see this as a warning sign that I need to love and focus on myself more…There is Always Going to be Something triggering us in a relationship ( This Blog is proof!!) If it’s not the unofficial ex-wife it will be something else….and then the downward spiral into the Land of clingy crazy desparation will begin.
    Don’t Let that happen to you Smile!

    As if your so Forgettable? The man sounds so into you…
    He’s even finally divorcing the wife officially! ….and you’re worrying about him having feelings for her again?
    ((((hugs))))
    I would encourage to give yourself a little self-love time….meditation…etc etc



  181.  #181Smile on May 11, 2013 at 7:43 am

    Thanks heart! Just needed to hear that and to shift my gremlins on! He is really into me, he he, feels amazing to say that! Woop 🙂 x



  182.  #182Indigo on May 11, 2013 at 7:50 am

    Kath,

    If you don’t want to hear a man talk about his ex, I would encourage you to draw a boundary around that.

    I have close to a zero tolerance policy when it comes to hearing about a man’s ex. I simply don’t want to bring whatever that triggers in me into the relationship, and I don’t mind losing a good man over it. It is that important to me. If he needs to talk about her I would gently tell him to talk to a therapist or to his guy friends about it.



  183.  #183Indigo on May 11, 2013 at 7:51 am

    Thank you so much Arachne 🙂



  184.  #184Femininewoman on May 11, 2013 at 7:53 am

    Relationship Principle 32: Who he tells you he is in the beginning has very little to without he will treat you. If there’s sex involved, he’ll promise you things you’ve never even heard of.

    http://www.cloverquips.com/2012/03/relationship-principles-how-to-get-and.html



  185.  #185Femininewoman on May 11, 2013 at 7:57 am

    Attraction Principle #1
    Anything a person chases in life runs away.

    Attraction Principle #2
    The women who have the men climbing the walls for them aren’t always exceptional. Often, they are the ones who don’t appear to care that much.

    Attraction Principle #3
    A woman is perceived as offering a mental challenge to the degree that a man doesn’t feel he has a 100 percent hold on her.

    Attraction Principle #4
    Sometimes a man deliberately won’t call, just to see how you’ll respond.

    Attraction Principle #5
    If you start out dependent, it turns him off.
    But if it is something he can’t have, it becomes more of a challenge for him to get it.

    Attraction Principle #6
    It is your attitude about yourself that a man will adopt.

    Attraction Principle #7
    Act like a prize and you’ll turn him into a believer.

    Attraction Principle #8
    The biggest variable between a bitch and a woman who is too nice is fear.
    The bitch shows that she’s not afraid to be without him.

    Attraction Principle #9
    If the choice is between her dignity and having a relationship, the bitch will prioritize her dignity above all else.

    Attraction Principle #10
    When a woman doesn’t give in easily and doesn’t appear docile or submissive, it becomes more stimulating to obtain her.

    Attraction Principle #11
    Being right on the verge of getting something generates a desire that has to be satisfied.

    Attraction Principle #12
    A man knows which woman will give in to last-minute requests.

    Attraction Principle #13
    Whether you have terms and conditions indicates whether you have options.
    Almost immediately, you present yourself as a doormat or a dreamgirl.

    Attraction Principle #14
    If you smother him, he’ll go into defense mode and look for an escape route to protect his freedom.

    Attraction Principle #15
    Whenever a woman requires too many things from a man, he’ll resent it.
    Let him give what he wants to give freely; then observe who he is.

    Attraction Principle #16
    A bitch gives a man plenty of space so he doesn’t fear being trapped in a cage.
    Then . . . he sets out to trap her in his.

    Attraction Principle #17
    If you tell him you are not interested in jumping into a relationship with both feet, he will set out to try to change your mind

    Attraction Principle #1
    Anything a person chases in life runs away.

    Attraction Principle #2
    The women who have the men climbing the walls for them aren’t always exceptional. Often, they are the ones who don’t appear to care that much.

    Attraction Principle #3
    A woman is perceived as offering a mental challenge to the degree that a man doesn’t feel he has a 100 percent hold on her.

    Attraction Principle #4
    Sometimes a man deliberately won’t call, just to see how you’ll respond.

    Attraction Principle #5
    If you start out dependent, it turns him off.
    But if it is something he can’t have, it becomes more of a challenge for him to get it.

    Attraction Principle #6
    It is your attitude about yourself that a man will adopt.

    Attraction Principle #7
    Act like a prize and you’ll turn him into a believer.

    Attraction Principle #8
    The biggest variable between a bitch and a woman who is too nice is fear.
    The bitch shows that she’s not afraid to be without him.

    Attraction Principle #9
    If the choice is between her dignity and having a relationship, the bitch will prioritize her dignity above all else.

    Attraction Principle #10
    When a woman doesn’t give in easily and doesn’t appear docile or submissive, it becomes more stimulating to obtain her.

    Attraction Principle #11
    Being right on the verge of getting something generates a desire that has to be satisfied.

    Attraction Principle #12
    A man knows which woman will give in to last-minute requests.

    Attraction Principle #13
    Whether you have terms and conditions indicates whether you have options.
    Almost immediately, you present yourself as a doormat or a dreamgirl.

    Attraction Principle #14
    If you smother him, he’ll go into defense mode and look for an escape route to protect his freedom.

    Attraction Principle #15
    Whenever a woman requires too many things from a man, he’ll resent it.
    Let him give what he wants to give freely; then observe who he is.

    Attraction Principle #16
    A bitch gives a man plenty of space so he doesn’t fear being trapped in a cage.
    Then . . . he sets out to trap her in his.

    Attraction Principle #17
    If you tell him you are not interested in jumping into a relationship with both feet, he will set out to try to change your mind.

    Attraction Principle #18
    Always give the appearance that he has plenty of space. It gets him to drop his guard.

    Attraction Principle #19
    More than anything else, he watches to see if you’ll be too emotionally dependent on him.

    Attraction Principle #20
    He must feel that you choose to be with him, not that you need to be with him. Only then will he perceive you as an equal partner.

    Attraction Principle #21
    If a man has to wait before he sleeps with a woman, he’ll not only perceive her as more beautiful, he’ll also take time to appreciate who she is.

    Attraction Principle #22
    Sex and the “spark” are not one and the same.

    Attraction Principle #23
    Before sex, a man isn’t thinking clearly and a woman is thinking clearly. After sex, it reverses. The man is thinking clearly and the woman isn’t.

    Attraction Principle #24
    Every man wants to have sex first; whether he wants a girlfriend is something he thinks about later. By not giving him what he wants up front, you become his girlfriend without him realizing it.

    Attraction Principle #25
    A man intuitively senses whether sexuality comes from a place of security or from a place of neediness. He knows when a woman is having sex to appease him.

    Attraction Principle #26
    Bad habits are easier to form than good ones, because good habits require conscious effort.
    Waiting encourages this effort.

    Attraction Principle #27
    If you pull the sexual plug at the last minute, he’ll label you a tease.

    Attraction Principle #28
    If he makes you feel insecure, let your insecurity be your guide.

    Attraction Principle #29
    A quality guy fantasizes about a woman who genuinely loves sex.

    Attraction Principle #30
    Any time a woman competes with another woman, she demeans herself.

    Attraction Principle #31
    When there is that undeniable “spark,” there is only one key to the lock.

    Attraction Principle #32
    Let him think he’s in control. He’ll automatically start doing things you want done because he’ll always want to look like
    “a king” in your eyes.

    Attraction Principle #33
    When you cater to his ego in a soft way, he doesn’t try to get power in an aggressive way.

    Attraction Principle #34
    When you appear softer and more feminine, you appeal to his instinct to protect.
    When you appear more aggressive, you appeal to his instinct to compete.

    Attraction Principle #35
    He’ll let a woman who becomes his doormat pay for dinner on the first couple of dates, but he wouldn’t think of it with his dreamgirl.

    Attraction Principle #36
    The token power position is for public display, but the true power position is for private viewing only.
    And this is the only one that matters.

    Attraction Principle #37
    If you give him a feeling of power, he’ll want to protect you and he’ll want to give you the world.

    Attraction Principle #38
    When a woman acts as though she’s capable of everything, she gets stuck doing everything.

    Attraction Principle #39
    Men don’t respond to words. They respond to no contact.

    Attraction Principle #40
    Talking about the “relationship” too much takes away the element of the “unknown”
    and thus the mystery.

    Attraction Principle #41
    Men respect women who communicate in a succinct way, because it’s the language men use to talk to one another.

    Attraction Principle #42
    When you are always HAPPY;
    And he is always free to GO;
    He feels LUCKY.

    Attraction Principle #43
    If you allow your rhythm to be interrupted, you’ll create a void. Then, to replace what you give up, you’ll start to expect and need more from your partner.

    Attraction Principle #44
    Most women are starving to receive something from a man that they need to give to themselves.

    Attraction Principle #45
    A woman looks more secure in a man’s eyes when he can’t pull her away from her life, because she is content with her life.

    Attraction Principle #46
    The second a woman works overtime to make herself fit his criteria, she has lowered the standard of that relationship.

    Attraction Principle #47
    You jump through hoops any time you repeatedly make it very obvious you’re giving your “all.”

    Attraction Principle #48
    You have to keep from being sucked down into quicksand. Unless you maintain control over yourself, the relationship is doomed.

    Attraction Principle #49
    Jumping through hoops often has a negative outcome: He sees it as an opportunity to have his cake and eat it, too.
    But when you stay just outside his reach, he’ll stay on his best behavior.

    Attraction Principle #50
    The nice girl gives away too much of herself when pleasing him regularly becomes more important than pleasing herself.

    Attraction Principle #51
    The relationship may not be right for you if you find yourself jumping through hoops.
    When something is right, it will feel easier and much more effortless.

    Attraction Principle #52
    When you nag, he tunes you out.
    But when you speak with your actions,
    But when you speak with your actions, he pays attention.

    Attraction Principle #53
    When a man takes a woman for granted, he still looks for reassurance that she is still “right there.”

    Attraction Principle #54
    When the routine becomes predictable, he’s more likely to give you the same type of love he had for his mother—and the odds that he will take you for granted increase.

    Attraction Principle #55
    Negative attention is still attention.
    It lets a man know that he has you—right where he wants you.

    Attraction Principle #56
    When you treat him casually as though he’s a friend, he’ll come your way.
    Because he wants things to be romantic, but he also wants to be the pursuer.

    Attraction Principle #57
    A little distance combined with the appearance of self-control makes him nervous that he may be losing you.

    Attraction Principle #58
    A man takes a woman for granted when he’s interested, but will no longer go out of his way.

    Attraction Principle #59
    When you nag, you become the problem, and he deals with it by tuning you out.
    But when you don’t nag, he deals with the problem.

    http://markettorrent.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=7230



  186.  #186Wildgeranium on May 11, 2013 at 8:01 am

    Kath,

    I’ve been reading here for weeks and learning so much. This is my first comment because I am feeling a lot about your situation. I hope it doesn’t come out too harsh. I’ve been in situations so similar to yours.

    First, I am feeling the sense of frustration, resentment and being trapped in your circumstances in all your words.

    I’m wondering if you can see how deeply you do trigger this man. Yes, its completely wrong that he threw things. It must have felt scary and totally unsafe. But, it may be that he cares quite a lot and feels he want to try and want things to work out, but that he doesn’t ever feel like he can do anything right and won’t be able to make you happy. The truth is not in what he said. The truth is in how much you triggered him. And how frustrated he is. Men have a bizarre sense of time. He may feel like there is constant drama, when you feel like there has been space for the drama to dissipate.

    If I were you, I would do the hardest thing there is to do….that is focus 100% on yourself. That is the ONLY thing you have control over. Stop thinking about what he did in the past. Stop thinking about his feelings. Stop thinking about his problems. Stop thinking about if he will ever change. Stop thinking about his exes and their problems. Stop thinking about everything that has transpired between you. You cannot change what has happened you can only change yourself.
    If you are in no position to move. Then don’t. I wouldn’t even move your things. (He will interpret that as more drama). Set up your life to be the most comfortable that you can be in that house. If that means avoiding him, then so be. Do nothing for him or the relationship. If he asks you to leave, tell him that you are not in a position to leave at this time and that you are working on a solution for the end of the month and leave it at that. Be civil, do not be fake. Don’t be passive agressive. Don’t be cold or warm. Just BE. If he tries to talk to you tell him that you are don’t feel ready to talk about it and that you are focusing on yourself right now.

    Then do that. Surrender to yourself. Focus on yourself 100%. Do things that make you feel good. If you feel the urge to talk to him or if you find yourself obsessing on the past, feeling angry and resentful, write it down. All of it. Write him letters that you don’t send. Write down everything you want to say. All this strength you have is keeping feelings bottled up deep inside. Men read this as anger. It is anger! (I was MORTIFIED when I realized just how angry I had been for so many years).

    The best epiphany I got from Rori when I first started reading here is “if you don’t love him as he is right now, then you don’t love him”. It is so so true. For me, I needed to stop making a man (my man) responsible for my feelings. I am 100% responsible for myself and my feelings. That does not mean that I don’t have needs. But, when we are doing that hard work on ourselves, its funny how we start to notice the little things our men DO do that say “I care about you” and “I love you”. It makes me weepy thinking about it. They just want to love us, and we make it so freakin’ difficult sometimes. Anyway, I am meandering here.

    But your posts are resonating so much for me…and I just wanted to say that whatever happened in the past has happened. Just put it away for now. Let go of it. Breathe. Stop beating yourself and him up for it. Take care of yourself. Really go deep into yourself and your part in it. Resist nothing that comes up inside of you. That is the ONLY thing you have control over. Yourself. Don’t hold anything in. Just get it all out on paper, cry, be angry, sad, terrified. And do nice things for yourself. Make your own existence as pleasant as you possibly can. And see what windows, paths, doors begin to open up. ((((((hugs)))) & love, Sarah



  187.  #187Femininewoman on May 11, 2013 at 8:03 am


  188.  #188Kath on May 11, 2013 at 8:29 am

    FW, thank you for the links- I have signed up to the online seminar and have read everything on the pages you suggested. The respect principles are interesting- there are some I don’t quite go with but others that ring true, like 65, respect-he has lost respect for me but I realise that because I lost trust in him I have quickened the end. Last night there were points when he said that he loved me but he couldn’t handle my anger (reminds him of his mother) but I have never said to him that I lost my trust in him because of what happened at New Year. He didn’t tell me for two whole days that his wife had visited him at the house to give presents and whilst they were having coffee together they started arguing and she ended up storming out. He didn’t tell me about this because he didn’t want me to react and for it to riun our New Year. I felt that he had taken it upon himself to control a situation and predict what my reaction could be. The thing is he told me before that he would never allow her into the house again and then they’e both sitting at the kitchen table. I found this confusing and I haved questioned whether he is telling me the truth since then. I know that this relationship is now over but I do feel that I have been cheated-but then I haven’t been honest with him have I?- perhaps I need to be. Perhaps I need to state why I have behaved so badly- or would that be blaming him again?- I don’t know, I wish to could put it right again, but I can’t.



  189.  #189sophie on May 11, 2013 at 9:25 am

    KATH)))I would love you to be able to give yourself some space (some proper space when you are able to no longer have contact with him) for a while before you decide what you would like to talk with him about and whether you would like to talk to him particularly with regards to your ‘bad behaviour’ or ‘blaming him’. Have you really been that ‘bad’? And why make either of you accountable right now when its difficult to see the wood for the trees?

    I know others may not agree and I might be completely wrong but my alarm bells go when you talk about this man and it reminds me of a relationship which I was in and in which it became very difficult for me to separate what was my stuff from what was his. In my situation it was both because I was very intensely addictively ‘in love’ with him but also because there WAS a lot of controlling and abusive behaviour going on on his part and there were times when I reacted with shouting etc. I then did exactly what you seem to be doing and beated myself up for those behaviours (and allowed him to beat me up for them too) but I now believe that he was not a good man for me (if indeed capable of being a good man for anybody). He was actually dangerous for me and NO WONDER I attacked back – good for me. I was so bound up and so confused I couldn’t get any insight at all into what was his behaviours and what was me. Now with plenty of time away from him I can see much more clearly why I was upset and honour myself for that. As i said before I am very very glad (though it tore me aprt at the time) that he is no longer in my life.

    Now I know far better that if I have an extreme reaction to something then either that’s a MAJOR trigger for me and something for me to look at (hopefully with a good man this wouldn’t happen that often or he would be able to communicate about it) OR whatever man I’m triggered by IS behaving in a way that is controlling, manipulative or cruel and whether he shouts or not that’s AGGRESSIVE and we feel it.



  190.  #190Smile on May 11, 2013 at 10:17 am

    A great read, thanks FW 🙂



  191.  #191ALA on May 11, 2013 at 10:30 am

    ((( Kath ))) Feeling a lot of compassion for you! I’m still healing from all the traumatic events with my ex and this triggered me, big time! Feels like ptsd, cold, swampy sludge memories.

    I’ve been so busy at work its been hard to keep up on the blog.

    Feeling so vulnerable today. My heart’s been cracked open and everything is rushing in. A little overwhelming. I feel good that I can feel all of this and not run away from my fears… my usual pattern.

    My client came in mid-post and I wanted to write and process much, much more…

    Thank you ladies for being here!



  192.  #192angela on May 11, 2013 at 10:32 am

    Zia and Arachne thanks. I really appreciate your input and yes both of you are correct it takes practice. And of course I am nervous I am just starting this process t hat feels different and sometimes dangerous in a good way. I think I might be resisting doing the tools because I know that it is a way that will guarantee I will start doing relationships. I know that at the bottom of my question of why should I take on this role of being feminine and allowing men to love me is my old habit of doing to get love and its hard to let go. Yet I am aware so I am happy of that! thank you girls



  193.  #193Indigo on May 11, 2013 at 10:53 am

    sophie 189

    I feel in a great deal of agreement with what you have said. I believe that our feelings are incredibly wise and are our compass and provide very valuable information about the world and people around us, and I would not be inclined to take so much upon myself if I am triggered to intense anger or upset.

    I would rather take it as a warning sign from my innermost being.



  194.  #194Femininewoman on May 11, 2013 at 11:10 am

    Wildgeranium I love what you said to Kath



  195.  #195Smile on May 11, 2013 at 11:19 am

    And suddenly from no where…!!!! I’ve got this go get it attitude to my career. I’m feeling alive and on top of the world. Ive mustered up the strength to finally believe in myself again. After strummingman I felt down trodden, gradually I’ve got myself back, I feel healed!!! Yey!!!
    Three cheers for my life’s motivation… Hip hip, hooray! Hip hip, hooray! Hip hip, hooray!! This feeling is so powerful, I needed to share 🙂



  196.  #196Veronica on May 11, 2013 at 12:26 pm

    166 – FW – wow. I didn’t know that you consider a feminine woman to be the one who is sad, walks away and finds love for herself. I usually feel such weakness when I do that – as in I was the one who failed.



  197.  #197Arachne on May 11, 2013 at 12:42 pm

    Smile – wow, way to go!!! 🙂



  198.  #198Daria on May 11, 2013 at 1:00 pm

    wow Wild Geranium thank you for writing that… i feel myself pushed healthily and supported…



  199.  #199Daria on May 11, 2013 at 1:00 pm

    i am not in a position to move right now

    that strength is anger

    wow so real



  200.  #200Daria on May 11, 2013 at 1:11 pm

    🙂 🙂 🙂 reading Dancing siren’s update



  201.  #201blue rose on May 11, 2013 at 1:29 pm

    Hi Sirens,

    I’m a little confused. It has been recently brought to my attention that I am repeating a pattern of dating men who I would need to take care of. And I don’t want that – I want to be taken care of.

    My circular dating roster is pathetic – one who makes plans each weekend, and the other has seen me once a month for a grand total of 2 times.

    Neither are truly a match.

    The one I see weekly has been treating me well. He has brought me flowers. he has taken me out several times. Nothing is extravagant. He does not have a job right now, but he has been paying for everything. Until last night

    I made the mistake (?) of offering to split the check. I usually pull out money, and he has me put it away. But this time he accepted. I know the vibe is shifting. I was already not very attracted to him, and when he accepted it just killed it for me.

    We went back to my place to hang out – my place is really really nice. He wanted to use my pool and I said sure.

    He did not give me any complements on my appearance in the bikini – which while not amazing, is not horrible. And I think it’s just the polite thing to do – for a guy to complement a girl if he finds her attractive. So confusion here: he later did tell me that I looked good – so why didn’t he say it in the pool?

    I found myself being confident-ish in my bikini. I didn’t make any comments about looking “fat”. And I felt good. I was in the moment, enjoying the night.

    We have not been very physical. Only kissing. and I really don’t enjoy it much with him.

    I’m trying to treat him with respect, use feeling messages, trying so hard to be open. But I wonder my accomplishments in career are getting in the way of me appreciating him.

    He asked to spend the night and I said “no, but thanks for asking”. I had been planning to have him spend the night, but I just didn’t want him around any more.

    This is hard.

    And is mostly venting I suppose. But if anyone has any thoughts I’d love to hear it.



  202.  #202sophie on May 11, 2013 at 1:39 pm

    Wild Geranium x that felt great to read x I loved the acknowledgement to a man’s different timeline and how they can often feel that its one thing after another and they can’t get anything right I can relate to that and I love the way that your words are calm and soothing and I love how you explain so well how to create the space from ‘drama’ that you mention men can perceive in our actions, just by being.



  203.  #203Jilly on May 11, 2013 at 2:53 pm

    HI Sirens 🙂

    Just thought I would stop in and say hi…

    I’ve been working so much that I just felt the need to escape somewhere…so where do I go?? Siren Island of course… 🙂

    Rugby Man and I have been married and living on Oahu for 2 months now…and it’s honestly getting better and better. He is my soul mate, my dream come true!

    I’m 24 weeks!! I love this part of being pregnant. 🙂 She is just starting to kick a lot. I think we are going to name her Mila…I am loving that name right now..my husband loves the name Roxy though lol…he’s so cute and funny…he already has her personality all picked out.

    I am working for a spa, as an esthetician, right on the beach… it feels good to get out and meet new people, but I feel a little overwhelmed by the hours I’m working…so hopefully that will be remedied soon…3 days a week is just about right.

    I hope everyone is doing well! I think being pregnant brings out some nostalgia … I used to spend hours here…and now hardly at all…sigh… but for a good reason… 🙂



  204.  #204Indigo on May 11, 2013 at 3:02 pm

    Smile 195, I feel the need to high-five you! 🙂

    Yay!

    I feel really strong and confident and on top of the world too!



  205.  #205Kath on May 11, 2013 at 3:36 pm

    #186 Wildgeranium,
    Thank you- your words are so strong-I have sunk today in feelings that I don’t know what to do with and did text him to say I was truly sorry for not handlking things in an appropriate way. I hear what you say about his frustration and he has said that he loves me and wants it to work but I lost trust in him and I have doubted him and his sencerity since. I text him to say that and he responded that he accepts my apology but that I will always repeat the abuse and he can’t cope with that. He said that last night when he said he felt abused by me, I said that my x had said the same thing and he thought that was very very worrying. So I responded that my x had issues with women and went into counselling to address them,which is true, I also went into counselling for PTSD because of what he’d done. Surprisingly, I have heard nothing back. It seems that eveything is about him, he can’t see anything else, ah well. Thank you Sirens for your kind words and thoughts-I feel very blessed.



  206.  #206MovingMagic on May 11, 2013 at 4:27 pm

    Kath, I dated a man who was still in love with his ex. He denied it but I felt it in my core. I heard it in his voice & saw it in his face when she would com up. I denied its effect on me but was never able to be vulnerable with him in the way that I needed…in a truly heart felt way. I learned alot about myself with that experience.



  207.  #207MovingMagic on May 11, 2013 at 4:30 pm

    FeminineWoman, I’ve decided to accept some dates without talking to AttentiveCd first. I’ll share my feelings on the subject next time I see him. 🙂



  208.  #208Femininewoman on May 11, 2013 at 5:08 pm

    Yayyy sweet Jilly



  209.  #209Femininewoman on May 11, 2013 at 5:15 pm

    blue rose maybe he is not used to giving or getting complements or it might not mean much to him. I also thought that maybe he did not want to seem too forward if he is not yet used to you but then he asked to sleep over. I wonder did you just say “no thanks” like that? No feeling messages?



  210.  #210Nancy on May 11, 2013 at 5:39 pm

    SOS. Hi Rori, I love your advice and help, it is helping me open up a new world. I need your help to get over a big hump. Me. I’ve lost or maybe never had the *welcoming vibration. I have some of it. Its just that when I see most men, I’m not attracted to them and I get the ick feeling. When I don’t get the Ick feeling, it is only for very few men. Granted, I was married 20 years and have 2 amazing children. Sew, I’ve been divorced 13 years now (almost 13 1/2). Have had no serious relationships. Just a few dead ends. I feel a bit closed off toward men. Your info was enormously helpful with a recent dating experience. I feel shy and blocked and stuck in the fear zone. I’ve been working on myself and doing what I enjoy for years and years. I’m happy and healthy and thankful. I am trying to step up my subtle flirtations. Please help. Thank you. Much appreciation.

    Nancy



  211.  #211Millie on May 11, 2013 at 7:38 pm

    Hi Blue Rose–

    A few things stood out to me as a little contradictory when I read your post. I’m not an expert, but perhaps pointing them out may help you sort out your frustration.

    The first is-you state that you want to be “taken care of” yet you offer to pay on your dates. If you decide to see this man again, maybe let him know in your own words, using feeling messages, that you like feeling courted–and if money is an issue for him, you’d be happy being with him in places that maybe don’t require a lot of spending..like the beach or something. Unemployment can be a sensitive subject. Oftentimes even a very ambitious man can get laid off. If you want to be taken care of, I would use your time together to discover if he is an ambitious, driven person that will one day be able to provide for you, or if he is content and has no immediate plans to change his financial position.

    Second– you say you felt “confident-ish.” To me, “Ish” doesn’t really read as confident. Perhaps this is an area for you to develop. Your bar for feeling good about yourself is “I didn’t say I felt fat.” I would say thats a pretty low bar. The majority of women don’t have “model” bodies, and I don’t think guys expect that, but he did say you looked good!! I don’t think WHEN he said it, matters as much as the fact that he said it!! So allow yourself to enjoy the compliment for what it is! Which brings me to my next point…

    Third–I feel a little bad for this guy. He treats you well, brought you flowers, is paying, wants to be with you in your home, he clearly likes you, yet it seems like you don’t want what he has to give. Continuing to offer to pay, then getting turned off when he accepts is a little dishonest of you. It feels like a trap, that maybe he fell into because he wants to make you happy and thinks that that will?? I’m not sure. You don’t like his kisses, his compliments, and then at then end, ultimately his company. Rori says that women’s affections take time to develop, but if you are feeling icky and bad around this guy, it is perfectly ok not to see him again.

    I am definitely someone that can be judgement and harsh on both men and women. It is something I have to call myself out and be aware of. I’m wondering if you have a judgmental side that is not allowing you to accept this man’s giving, due to the fact that at this moment in time your financial success makes you more masculine than him in your eyes?

    I know this is a lot! But I felt very triggered by your post and wanted so much to share what I saw! I am a very ambitious achiever as well and I do find it hard to respect men that are less accomplished, and less ambitious than I am. I’m working on it! with all the people around me!

    I hope this helps you, even in a small way. 🙂



  212.  #212Millie on May 11, 2013 at 7:46 pm

    Jilly– your life sounds like paradise! pure happiness! feels so good to hear a success story!



  213.  #213ALA on May 11, 2013 at 8:20 pm

    Really outs things in perspective for me, why we’re all here… to be living our dreams!

    I don’t know Jilly’s whole story… just the happy ending! What perfect timing to check in here ((( Mom to be ))) 🙂

    Hope all of the Mother’s here have a wonderful Mother’s Day!

    P.S. Yay, Smile and Dancing Siren too! I LOVE reading about good news, can you tell. 🙂



  214.  #214Katarina Phang on May 11, 2013 at 8:42 pm

    Blue Rose #201, very interesting. It sounds like me. I have always felt guilty of receiving, now I really force myself to feel good doing that. It stems from the combo between wanting to be in control and feeling of not worthy to get a gift without earning it.

    Especially if I know the guy is broke, I will feel obligated to pay as well. And I usually ended up with starving artists of some sort. 🙁

    Have never been attracted to wealthy guys. My dad grew up poor and all my life growing up I always wanted to do things for him, make him happy and “rescue” him.

    See if you have that kind of relationship with your father growing up.

    I’m getting better now. I learnt the art of leaning back and let guys do things for me. That’s how they invest and connect with us. As long as you don’t expect them to spend on us more than what they’re comfortable with, just enjoy being treated like a woman.



  215.  #215Daria on May 11, 2013 at 9:32 pm

    omgosh masculine energy abandonign myself – fail!
    i wound up going home early and taking care of myself after all
    🙂

    yay!



  216.  #216Daria on May 11, 2013 at 9:34 pm

    i felt so surprised to notice that i used to LIVE ! in the land of bored-and-tired but really just covering up feeling VERY VERY SAD and not taken care of!

    this time i didn’t want to keep on ‘hanging out’ feeling that way, even thought it felt ‘comfortable’

    i used to hang out feeling that way everyday!

    but now i want to feel authentically happy in my heart instead!

    and its easy to notice…

    and reasonably easy to do



  217.  #217Daria on May 11, 2013 at 9:36 pm

    YAY JILLY 🙂

    AHHH I FEEL SO MELTEDDD



  218.  #218Daria on May 11, 2013 at 9:39 pm

    today i showered, washed my hair, shaved my legs my arms and waxed my lip and big toes lol i feel embarassed and smily giggly hehe

    that is a LOT for me to do actually

    i havent done all that at once in a long long time

    yawn

    and i got menudo for myself after all (instead of using the money to cover gas to see Security man – i did go see him and promptly left when stuff wasn’t going the way i felt good – and i had enough gas to make it back and get my menudo! yum and yay to me)



  219.  #219Daria on May 11, 2013 at 9:40 pm

    CoEnzyme Q10 capsules is really helping me boost my energy to do stuff for me



  220.  #220Daria on May 11, 2013 at 9:40 pm

    menudo got my teeth sparkly white



  221.  #221ALA on May 11, 2013 at 9:50 pm

    Glad you’re feeling better, Daria. Yay!



  222.  #222Emerson on May 11, 2013 at 10:10 pm

    Hi sirens I’m noticing a pattern that lots of men poof… Which is fine… But it leaves me feeling like I don’t want to invest in getting to know anyone and I’m finding myself feeling bored…



  223.  #223Daria on May 11, 2013 at 10:22 pm

    Thanks ALA 🙂



  224.  #224Daria on May 11, 2013 at 10:28 pm

    back to write how now SHOCKINGLY! Security man is writing me saying i was mad at you baby but your’e right i wanted your energy but its not the same with (his friend/other woman) there …

    and i said yes and im noticing i dont feel as fulfilled doing the traveling and from now on will want men to come to me

    and he says…

    only me babe i know you got other friends and i dont mind but i might want you to myself real soon

    whaaat :))))

    i feel all squeezy smily

    then he says u also suck me good

    and then now i feel insecure as voice is saying THATS why he’s bieng like this he’s just horny and alone and you know what its ok!

    this is still great

    and actually im noticing that i said i wanted to be sexually exclusive but later realized its more like i just dont want to be sexually involved with a man living with and emotionally involved with anohter woman,

    and now he’s thinking about exclusivity and im like ack lol i just dont want to worry about another woman, but feel freaked to think of giving up my own exculsivity…

    phew

    anyway im not gonna ‘worry’ about it im just gonna feel good cuz it Does feel really good mmmmmm

    and props to my first fell in love with boyfriend for teaching me how to suck ive had so many men be blown away since thenlol

    (so many as in so many of the ones who got the privilege to turn me on that way)



  225.  #225Daria on May 11, 2013 at 10:29 pm

    when i said i havent done all that (hair removal bathing in a long long time i meant YEARS!)
    its becoming way easier to do stuff for me… like ‘routine’ stuff

    thank goodness!

    yay!



  226.  #226Daria on May 11, 2013 at 10:48 pm

    voting for me fuc(kin works! it fuchKin works!!!

    🙂 🙂
    🙂

    😀

    yayy ayyya yyay i fel sooo good rolls eyez up in head

    mmmmm



  227.  #227Zia on May 11, 2013 at 11:42 pm

    So coffee date I thought went well, but he didn’t ask for my number at the end.

    What I’ve taken away from this date, is that I struggle to listen at level 2. Like REALLY struggle. So, this is something I plan to work on 🙂



  228.  #228Indigo on May 11, 2013 at 11:46 pm

    Kath,

    I feel so very, very triggered by your ex calling you abusive when he was the one having relationships with women and being dishonest about it, becoming cold and distant towards you and allowing himself to fly into a rage where he would break lots of things.

    I would really encourage you to look at the *facts*, and not necessarily accept someone else’s label for you, even as you sift through what they have said to see if there is something of value there for you.

    You say your ex also had issues with women… Have you perhaps examined what it is about these men you are attracted to? Have you perhaps tried to visualize what it would be like to be with a man who was the opposite, how that would make you feel? Attracted or not?



  229.  #229sophie on May 12, 2013 at 3:44 am

    I agree with you Indigo. I have felt very interested by all the mixed responses towards Kath’s situation and it has made me reflect upon how I am seeing things from my window of perspective and previous experiences; that said I felt triggered also by the comments about being abusive and the comment about Kath’s previous partner saying the same thing being ‘very very worrying’ made me feel cold. It felt shaming and fear inducing and as such controlling. As I’ve said this is coming from my perspective when as my self esteem was already quite low it was easy for me to feel ‘ashamed’ and frightened when men wanted me to. These partners have told me that they love me and at least with the last one I believed that he did. I also believe that although he did he still wasn’t able to ‘DO’ relationship; relationship that was loving and supportive and healthy and yes, as you say Indigo, I have had to and continue to have to look at this pattern I have with being attracted to men who can’t DO relationship in a loving, supportive way.

    The most important element of this is working on myself and feelings of self worth (something I was not able to do whilst being told nasty things about myself). Responses such as ‘ouch, that does not feel good’ have helped me when I have felt attacked or criticised and then walking away to avoid any escalation in the ‘drama’.

    I don’t know, its so important to own our part in things so that we can continue to grow and change into our juicy, loving selves but for me and lots of women I know its been so easy to end up taking on things that are not ours to own and have our power diminished.

    Its great to read all the sirens thoughts on this; how we keep our boundaries and our beauty and strength and power especially in the face of situations where this feels murky and unsure and frightening.



  230.  #230Femininewoman on May 12, 2013 at 4:00 am

    Zia if he didn’t ask for your number at first how did you agree on the date?



  231.  #231Indigo on May 12, 2013 at 4:13 am

    sophie 229

    I agree with you SO much. The reason why confidence and self-esteem are so important is that they allow us to more easily discern what is our own stuff and what is someone else’s, despite what they may be telling us.

    When in doubt I always find it helpful to bring things back to the facts. If someone is saying I did or am something which is objectively untrue, then I don’t engage in any further enquiry or entertain the words, except for perhaps asking myself what they might be feeling which would lead them to say such a thing.



  232.  #232Zia on May 12, 2013 at 4:20 am

    FW: this was the first coffee date with the matchmaking company i won a membership with. They set you up with a time and a place, and you go meet and if things go well you exchange details from there.



  233.  #233Femininewoman on May 12, 2013 at 4:22 am

    aaahhh Thanks for explaining Zia. I would then assume the guy was clueless or nervous rather than I did anything wrong or assume anything was wrong with me.



  234.  #234Zia on May 12, 2013 at 4:24 am

    FW: yeah or not interested! all ok, if he really is keen he could always speak to the company to pass on his details so we’ll see. it really was a great learning experience for me as to what I need to improve on.

    i would have gone out on a second date with him if he’d asked, which is great for me to feel because at least i know that there are guys out there i am interested in…. and it will stop me thinking about my past/ex!



  235.  #235Femininewoman on May 12, 2013 at 4:34 am

    Dates are for fun and meeting new people is what I assume. Being keen on a guy being keen might change your vibe, Using it to stop thinking about the ex hhhmmm I dunno because then it seems to question if I am aware of the human I am with and if I am present. Really present and in the moment. If I really want to be there now.



  236.  #236Zia on May 12, 2013 at 4:42 am

    No no I don’t mean I’m using the dates to stop thinking about the ex – the ex is in the past, but this is the first guy I’ve been on a date with since the ex where I’ve actually thought ‘ahh yes, I’d go on another date with him!’

    So it’s more a positive for me about being able to move on, more real. I liken it to when I first broke up from my 9 year relationship and thought I’d never love again… then I did, and it felt good to have that ‘feeling’ again. If that makes sense?? When you have gone from a relationship and go on dates and don’t click with any of them, it can be a bit disheartening and could possibly lead you to going back into “thinking about the ex and what we had” territory because that was the last person you felt any click with.

    I’m dating to meet people and practise the rori tools, but it feels good to me to have gone on a date with someone I’d like to date again is all.



  237.  #237Femininewoman on May 12, 2013 at 4:42 am

    Nancy hi. I am wondering if it is because you were married for 20 years and maybe still hold yourself obligated to the vows you made to that man. Maybe you still unconsciously have given yourself away to him and closed off to other men. I am wondering if doing some kind of ritual to cut the attachment might help your mind to grasp the fact that you are now not any longer with him and now open to the world of available men around you. I can imagine feeling cringe-y of other men’s vibe coming into your space when you only want one man, the man you have already chosen.



  238.  #238Zia on May 12, 2013 at 4:43 am

    And even more, I’m not all upset or anxious or down in the dumps about the fact that I would have gone on a date with him again, but he didn’t ask me for my number. Which I would have before I’m sure.



  239.  #239Femininewoman on May 12, 2013 at 6:24 am

    Happy Mothers Day to all the lovely siren moms. 🙂



  240.  #240Luzydel on May 12, 2013 at 6:28 am

    http://www.astrology.com/uranus-libra-generation-october-1968-september-1975/2-d-d-306531

    The Uranus in Libra Generation (October 1968-September 1975)

    Most people in mid 40’s late thirties have this; it makes us rebellious and “unstable” in relationships. In order to have a relationship to work meet people who are older born before 10/68 or after 9/75.



  241.  #241Zia on May 12, 2013 at 6:37 am

    Thanks FW 🙂



  242.  #242Femininewoman on May 12, 2013 at 7:07 am

    Turquoise you are on my heart. I know we all, over the years, have issues with our moms but I know it must be hard for you today. Enjoy your girls and shine on them the love that you would normally send your mom’s way on a day like this.

    Special Happy Mothers Day to you love 🙂



  243.  #243Zara on May 12, 2013 at 7:26 am

    Kath

    Relationship Tool of the Week – Bring Him Close With Your Inner Drama Queen
    Written by Rori Raye 26 October 2009

    If you sometimes feel like your man has all the Power in your relationship, and you feel almost desperate to get your strong sense of yourself back, I learned something very valuable (the hard way) this weekend that I know will help you, too.

    If you’re at all like me, you value being “nice,” being “liked,” and being “well thought of.”

    So, if you’re like me – being a “Drama Queen” is just out of the question.

    Well, that’s all nice and good, wanting to be “mature” and “well spoken” and “thoughtful,” but for most of us, all that “carefulness” and “political correctness” gets us to the same place – pushing our men away!

    How can that be?

    How can we push a man away by being “nice” and “mature”?

    Well, as I’ve known since the moment I turned my marriage around years ago, and as I teach my clients and write and create programs about for you, valuing “nice” and “mature” over AUTHENTIC can just kill a man’s love for you.

    And it’s not because there’s something so wrong with “nice.”.

    It’s because sometimes our “nice” is just not REAL.

    Because we value being liked more than being Authentic, we can stuff down our feelings.

    I still struggle with this – and as aware as I am about it, it still always surprises me when I choose the “high road” – choose to let something that’s bothering me go, rather than speaking up about it.

    These are the moments when my inner Drama Queen can actually HELP!

    So – what does YOUR inner Drama Queen look like?

    Is she so not welcome inside you that you’d do almost anything to not let her out?

    Are you so afraid she’ll turn you into a raging Drama Queen out there in the world that you push her down and try to keep her covered up?

    Well, the one thing I know is that if you don’t love your inner Drama Queen, and instead resist her as much as you can – that’s when you actually DO turn INTO a Drama Queen.

    It’s as though the fight to keep her from taking over makes her squeak by you so you end up acting like a Drama Queen anyway.

    Only – instead of YOU GUIDING her, so that her words come out THROUGH YOU, in Feeling Messages instead of attacks, and so her feelings inspire a man to HELP you instead of run from you – she comes out without your consent and without your control.

    Your inner Drama Queen just jumps out and splatters all over everything. It’s those moments when we do or say something we wish we hadn’t.

    And then you remember the moment when you first felt angry or upset and didn’t say anything about it when it happened – and you KNOW that if you’d just spoken out – authentically and truthfully in that moment, you wouldn’t have turned into a Drama Queen just now.

    So – love your inner Drama Queen.

    Loving her and embracing her will make it possible for you to avoid ACTING like a drama queen.

    Let her speak to you.

    Let her say what’s on her mind.

    Let her into your heart, feel her feelings and use YOUR WORDS to say what’s going on inside you.

    You can do this.

    Your Drama Queen on the inside can make you calmer and easier on the outside.

    Your Drama Queen on the inside can help you stand up for yourself and be stronger.

    So – talk to her.

    Ask her what her name is.

    Ask her if she’ll help you be stronger, more direct, authentic, and VULNERABLE.

    Try this Tool and see if you feel a little lighter, a little more in step with yourself – I know that I did.

    In my Toxic Men program, I have a whole section on getting to know and embracing your inner “Stranger” – this will help you so much to stop attracting and being attracted to toxic and difficult men. You can take a look at it (and all my programs) on the “Rori’s Catalog” page here…For now, just listen to your inner Drama Queen instead of shutting her up, and see what she has to offer you – and let me know how she helps you.

    Love, Rori



  244.  #244Zara on May 12, 2013 at 7:43 am

    Nancy

    Let’s Stop Bad-Mouthing The Frogs And Look For The Message
    Written by Rori Raye 9 February 2009

    We’re all so used to calling men “losers,” and “frogs,” and…other names – just because we aren’t interested in them romantically.

    They don’t look right, or talk right, or smell right, or carry themselves right, or live right.

    So – who are these “frogs” and why did one just show up in front of you at Starbucks?

    To start: Let’s do a 180 here and stop giving frogs a bad name!

    The whole thing is about “kissing frogs to turn them into Princes” …and it’s that CONCEPT that’s bogus, not the frogs themselves.

    The whole point of knowing a frog is to LOVE the frog for what it is…a frog.

    And NOT to decide, just because we may have learned not to like frogs, just because we’ve been taught “something” about frogs, just because we may not want to marry a frog – that frogs are somehow “bad.”

    A frog is…just a frog.

    And…to throw another wrench into this old idea – what if…just because WE think he’s a frog – what if he’s actually a Prince for some other woman? In fact…what if the “frog” categorization is completely bogus?

    What if we not only can’t tell if a frog is “bad” – but we can’t even tell a frog from a Prince anyway?

    What if we’re just handing out “frog” stickers to any man who doesn’t pass OUR test?

    Let’s say that…okay…he’s not someone you’d want to marry, he’s not someone you want to kiss, he’s not someone you’d want to have a conversation with, he’s not even someone you’d want to make eye contact with…

    Let’s say you’d rather just IGNORE him.

    But – you go out on a date with him anyway, because Circular Dating tells you to do it, and then you feel lousy when you get home (because he makes you think about the guy you really want and how painful it is that you don’t have that guy).

    And then, maybe, just to make SURE you don’t like him, you go out with him again, and then when you get home you feel both lousy and GUILTY for possibly leading him on. And then you feel ANGRY with men in general for driving you to this awful situation.

    What if – instead of putting yourself (and him) through all this…you just look at him as a “man.” Perhaps, if you like, a “frog-man.” The “frog” part just being because YOU don’t like him all that much, and have judged him as “unworthy.”

    (…oh…and we need to notice that whenever we judge anyone else as “unworthy” – the ONLY way we can even do that is if we’ve already judged OURSELVES as unworthy. That’s how it all works.)

    So – let’s look at this “frog-man.” Instead of making him some “second-rate-man” in your mind and heart – let’s look at WHY he’s in front of you in the first place!

    Why did this one, particular man show up where you happened to be, zero in on you and somehow catch your attention?

    If you can switch all your other thinking to this one question – “Why?” – you’ll kick in your CURIOSITY.

    And as soon as you switch into Curiosity – everything changes. The man is just a man – with SOME REASON for being in your presence. There’s possibly SOMETHING about him. He may be bringing some kind of Message to you – something that’s important for YOU.

    So – for now – for this Step down your path to your Happy Ever After…LOOK FOR THE MESSAGE.

    Instead of allowing yourself to see him as an OBSTACLE to your getting your Mr. Right, instead of allowing yourself to see him as something USELESS to you – see if you can use this as an OPPORTUNITY.

    Let’s see if you can use Mr. Frog-Man as an opportunity.

    Practice your Rori Raye Tools with him. Smile. Do the Dance Position. Allow him to Fall In Love With You! Relax and then expand your vagina sideways – even though you feel just AWFUL feeling turned on in front of this frog-man – do it for YOURSELF!

    Sometimes, a “frog” is what we need. Sometimes a “frog” is all we can handle. Sometimes, the love of a “frog” – even for a moment at the counter of the corner Starbucks can lift up our whole day. Let it.

    Get used to love of all kinds coming toward you.

    And if this particular frog is hurling insults instead (I’ve heard of that quite a bit) see if you’ve been hurling insults at YOURSELF.

    Some people call this kind of thing the “mirror” – that what we see out there is what we’re putting out from inside us – (and, yes, it is in some ways – but in a very complex and mental way).

    So I think a much better way to see this – to see EVERY MAN who stands in front of you or speaks to you on the phone or sends you an email (and, most importantly, it FEELS so much better this way) – is as a MESSAGE.

    Get curious. What’s his Message? What does he have for you that might not be so easy to see right on his surface?

    Let me know how this works for you. Look for the Messages – from EVERYONE – and then Riff through your emotions til you come out the other side into LOVE for YOURSELF.

    Love, Rori



  245.  #245prplpsn28 on May 12, 2013 at 8:20 am

    To all the moms….Happy Mother’s Day!

    This has been an awesome weekend. H has really made an obvious effort to spend time with me. We’ve had a great time! The “leaning back” really does work. He has come forward in many ways and has shown how much he wants to be with me and spend time with me. I’m feeling really good 🙂



  246.  #246Daria on May 12, 2013 at 8:48 am

    wooo hooo Good Morning Blog 🙂



  247.  #247Daria on May 12, 2013 at 8:51 am

    Happy Mother’s Day American ladies!



  248.  #248Daria on May 12, 2013 at 9:43 am

    guilt shame horror

    Happy Mother’s Day to all celebrating today 🙂



  249.  #249ALA on May 12, 2013 at 10:29 am

    me too…

    If you are missing your mom today, or have lost a child too soon, take comfort in the knowing that they are with you especially today.

    ((((((( Love )))))))



  250.  #250ALA on May 12, 2013 at 10:39 am

    * their spirit is still with you on this day.

    I’m feeling very uncomfortable now…

    I’m back to having nightmares about d again and didn’t sleep very well last night.



  251.  #251MovingMagic on May 12, 2013 at 10:56 am

    Happy Mothers Day to all of the mothers, teachers, & care givers!!



  252.  #252BeLoved on May 12, 2013 at 10:58 am

    Wishing a blessed Mother’s day to the mothers here, and a rainshower of sparkling, comforting unconditional mother love to those who never got it from their moms or are missing them on this day.

    (((((anyonewhoneedsone)))))



  253.  #253smile on May 12, 2013 at 10:58 am

    High 5 indigo!!



  254.  #254smile on May 12, 2013 at 11:04 am

    Thanks Arachne :)))



  255.  #255smile on May 12, 2013 at 11:06 am

    Thanks ALA!!!



  256.  #256k2012 on May 12, 2013 at 11:08 am

    Happy Mothers Day to all Sirens on here, whether u are a biological mother or u are a mothering a child in some way. Enjoy your special day.



  257.  #257BeLoved on May 12, 2013 at 11:14 am

    After my conversation with T the other night, I understood that he interpreted my leaning back and caring for myself as “testing”, “evaluating”, “keeping score” and brought up anger for him. The old me would have tried…to DO….something about it. Fix it, help it, explain it, counsel it, reflect it, analyze it, whatever, and after talking it out with a friend I am letting it go.
    That’s between him and him. I do believe at some level I was doing all of that, and I don’t think any of that is bad, and if he’s using those thoughts as reasons NOT to call, after ELEVEN years of a relationship with me, then…pfft. Good for him and he can have whatever experience he chooses 🙂

    Shifting focus –
    I’m feeling sooooo much freedom today!!!
    My son didn’t set up anything with me today so I called and invited myself over, and am bringing flowers for my pregnant DIL. I’m not worried about whether it’s overfunctioning or not, I’m trusting my gut on this one and it’s the right thing to do for me 🙂

    As of yesterday morning, I’m a red-head again, LOVING it!!!! I got a good haircut this morning from a woman I enjoyed hanging out with, I will definitely go to her again.

    Today is housekeeping/getting ready for the week to come/pedicure day so I’m going to get cooking in the kitchen, later I’m going to shoot pool with a neighbor and
    my heart feels so full and overflowing…I slept FIFTEEN hours last night so I must have needed some serious rest, and I’m ready to GO today!!

    Hugs and hugs and hugs to you all!!!



  258.  #258k2012 on May 12, 2013 at 11:28 am

    Wow, Beloved that’s so nice. How is the online dating going? I am reading everything on online dating before I resume. No long distance, only men in my country.



  259.  #259Indigo on May 12, 2013 at 11:56 am

    My date from Friday night (and last Sunday) called today and was so terribly sweet. I told him I loved the phone calls and he said yes, it was good to hear my voice.

    He asked me if he could call me later, or tomorrow and I said tomorrow would be good – pacing myself 🙂 I know I’m jumping the gun a bit by saying this, but this guy makes me feel very comfortable, warm and safe.

    I ended up crying today over D, and I had a realisation which felt good – I don’t always cry when I’m sad, mostly I cry over things which make me feel intensely. It’s a release. Sometimes the passion or the joy or the feeling is too much to hold inside and I just cry to get it out.



  260.  #260Olivia on May 12, 2013 at 12:19 pm

    A question for the Sirens/Rori!

    I am feeling so *viciously* angry about my job lately. When I feel overwhelmed by the stress I start leaning forward more than I’d like, but more worrisome is feeling like I am exuding this defeated, needy *vibe* from inside, even if I’m not overtly acting on it.

    Just now, he sent me a silly text to cheer me up because he knows I have to work all day and really need a break.
    I responded in a silly way back, but then got serious and sent the following:

    “Hey I just want to say something. I am feeling really angry and like I am fighting inside myself so often over work and making a career change. How to receive support from you without going into this needy “child” role is something I am figuring out every week. I want to be an adult and to be strong and I want to have an adult partnership. Just wanted to let you know that is something I am thinking about. That is all! 🙂

    He responded back: “I’m here for you. Thank you for telling me.” And I gave a simple “:)” back.

    I feel *relief* getting that off my chest, because not verbalizing my feelings feels like old, bad stuff to me.

    And sometimes leaning back feels bad to me, like old stuff, like staying silent, like not telling my dad or family members who hurt me so much “hey, I need you to listen to me and help me.” At those times I revert to child mode, and I feel like I just *need* the bf’s presence, his hugs, and I lean forward and initiate contact so he’ll ask me to spend time together (which he almost always does when I initiate the contact) so I can get that presence.

    But is this too leaning forward? Too needy, child? This “bad” period at work is going to extend for several more months.

    Sigh.

    I can’t decide what I think exactly.



  261.  #261BeLoved on May 12, 2013 at 12:26 pm

    k2012

    I recommend the book on online dating rules for Ellen Fein. I know that Rori has no rules, and a few years ago I almost wanted to throw the bleepity book at someone, but it does have nuggets of good info and I leave the rest, like anything else. I don’t follow everything to the T, but I do keep it in the back of my mind as a guide. For example, I don’t stick hard and fast to the “ditch them if there’s no date after 4 emails”, but none of the ones that have gone beyond that have made it to a date anyway. So I use them for practice to use FM’s and learn about myself.

    So, no date yet, although a couple have asked.
    I had a fascinating and fun conversation with a man yesterday, and he seemed to be utterly bewildered and confused when I told him the day I was available and that it would feel better if he planned the date. He kept saying, “just call me when you’re ready, I have the whole day free” until I said outright, I don’t want to plan the date, I want you to do that, it feels better to me. The feel was playful and bantering, genuinely so, not faking it, lol. And, I got off the phone with no clear idea of wtf is going on.

    I think he does have something to teach me, though, because he’s used to a different kind of strength in a woman, he wants to SERVE a QUEEN, so I will need to think about that and feel into it and get what the message is for me about that.



  262.  #262BeLoved on May 12, 2013 at 12:35 pm

    k2012

    The long-distance thing is one thing I do stick to, without exception. When someone contacts me from outside the state, or more than an hour’s drive away, tell them how good it feels to get a response and that I’m not looking for anything long-distance or for an online chat friend/pen pal. Some of them don’t respond, some say thanks, and some seem to ignore this totally and try to bait me into a conversation, which I ignore and use it as practice in building mental strength to avoid distractions 🙂
    It’s not my job to protect the ego of every man on the planet – I explained my position warmly once, that’s my limit.



  263.  #263Dominique on May 12, 2013 at 12:37 pm

    Olivia – I would not have suggested this wording, yet it went over well and worked out well.

    First of all leaning back is not about stuffing feelings and thoughts. I would encourage anyone to get clear on what it is that is really bothering them, take things back inside to self to see if this is about you really and not the other person at all, before speaking though. And sometimes little heart-to-hearts are needed as well.

    When you are in a relationship though, it’s not all about leaning back. It’s not about you not initiating ever. There is more of a flow.

    You will get to a point when you will FEEL when you’ve been leaning forward too much. The energy will feel off, strained maybe. He might pull back some in response.

    It’s perfectly okay to experiment with all of this, to get to feel for yourself the good balance of this for you.

    K and I have been together 11 plus years, and I do plenty of initiating or leaning forward though most of it is from him. Depending on circumstances, sometimes I have to be in masculine energy, and quickly this will not feel good to me, and to have things balance back out feels so relieving.

    Here you were open and honest, real. And you allowed yourself to be vulnerable with him. So yay you!!

    xxoo



  264.  #264Olivia on May 12, 2013 at 1:11 pm

    Thanks Dominique, this is so helpful to hear. I’m curious -would you have “tweaked” the message somehow and how?



  265.  #265Kath on May 12, 2013 at 1:21 pm

    OOh Ladies you’re going to love this one!- Today both him and me have felt numb and both are processing what happened on friday night. We had a meal together and talked a bit afterward and I said how important it was for me to be in a relationship where I trusted my guy to be honest and open with me. His comment was “so I have to suffer for the rest of our relationship because of what you;ve had before”- uhm, well, that stunned me to the core!- OMG am I seeing a different guy!!- its like he really doesn’t give a sh*t anymore and yet he says he doesn’t know what to think or feel. I really have to leave him alone and do my own thing because comments like that are so not helpful, or kind.



  266.  #266Dominique on May 12, 2013 at 1:24 pm

    Olivia – It felt somewhat pointing fingers, making him wrong. Whenever expressing things, you want to make it about you, how you feel. He may be triggering you, yet this is about you, something in you. If it wasn’t, it wouldn’t bother you.

    And remember, you can only change you, and if comes along for the ride, wonderful. If not, you get to choose every step of the way.

    “I am feeling really angry – (it seems to me frustrated and also some confused is more what I get from you and not so much angry, so these two might be better adjectives. though you know you best) – I feel myelf fighting me inside so often over work and making a career change. I feel overwhelmed sometimes. It would feel so good to receive support, and I want so much to ask for it, yet I fear going into this needy “child” role. I don’t want to do that. Can you help me with this?”

    How does this feel to you?

    xxoo



  267.  #267Olivia on May 12, 2013 at 1:37 pm

    Dominique thank you so much for responding!

    The thing is, I don’t want to make him ‘wrong’ because I actually don’t think he is doing anything wrong…he is giving me support…he is being there…he is going into his ‘man cave’ mode sometimes, but it feels normal. I didn’t realize my message came off that way.

    It’s more that I feel like needy, angry vibe oozing out of me and I feel incapable of making it stop sometimes and I know he can “feel” this vibe too, and I want to put it out there I suppose, that I don’t want to be this girl who like, bursts into tears over work every single weekend and it just makes me feel so bad to be that person.

    I was able to hold back the tears this weekend and the last, but the vibe was there.

    Does this make sense???



  268.  #268Olivia on May 12, 2013 at 1:42 pm

    I guess the broader question is just, in a relationship, how do you go through these bad times and be able to not be falling to pieces and overly being in this role of allowing him to prop you up…to the point that he starts to feel drained by you.

    I guess it’s turning around those negative thoughts?



  269.  #269blue rose on May 12, 2013 at 2:29 pm

    #209 Femininewoman

    I guess I did just say no. no feeling messages were used 🙁



  270.  #270blue rose on May 12, 2013 at 2:40 pm

    #211 Millie

    Thanks Millie. That was a lot to think about – and I’m still thinking about it.

    “Third–I feel a little bad for this guy. He treats you well, brought you flowers, is paying, wants to be with you in your home, he clearly likes you, yet it seems like you don’t want what he has to give. Continuing to offer to pay, then getting turned off when he accepts is a little dishonest of you. It feels like a trap, that maybe he fell into because he wants to make you happy and thinks that that will?? I’m not sure. You don’t like his kisses, his compliments, and then at then end, ultimately his company. Rori says that women’s affections take time to develop, but if you are feeling icky and bad around this guy, it is perfectly ok not to see him again.”

    I feel bad for him too. I’m practicing with an innocent human, and I know he is getting frustrated. I was initially attracted to him too, but now not so much.

    You have such good points – I have absolutely baited and trapped him. and maybe he really did say yes to me paying thinking it would make me happy. who knows.

    I don’t feel “icky” around him. I really do enjoy spending time with him. The horrible truth is that I don’t think, in a lot of ways, that he is good enough for me. And I have felt this way about a lot of men. Which has led me to be alone.



  271.  #271blue rose on May 12, 2013 at 2:51 pm

    #214 Katarina Phang

    yeah, I have some daddy issues too 🙂

    “Have never been attracted to wealthy guys. My dad grew up poor and all my life growing up I always wanted to do things for him, make him happy and “rescue” him.”

    I am playing that out. then I get upset when I get what I want – a guy who needs me to take care of him – or I think needs me.



  272.  #272Dominique on May 12, 2013 at 3:42 pm

    Olivia – 267 – I understand better now. I don’t remember how long you’ve been together, and this might change how I respond. If you’ve been together awhile, and you feel mostly good in this relationship, then show him how you feel. It may help relieve some of this constant feeling of falling to bits. Holding it in is resisting, and what you resist persists.

    Tell him you’re feeling vulnerable/shaky/needy even, and a hug would feel SO good.

    He’s going to feel this in you anyway. Allow him to soothe you. It won’t make it better, yet it will ease the worst of it.

    It’s not your job to worry about you draining him. He’s a big boy. He can handle his feelings. If he can’t, well this is something to consider. You will also feel shifts in HIS energy, a pulling away maybe if it gets to be too much.

    We all go through personal stuff even if nothing tangible is actually going on. A good man knows this, and will let you process and be moody maybe, and it won’t affect him so much. He won’t likely offer help yet will happily give you a hug when asked. Or he may just open his arms to you.

    For example – “I had a rough day. Can you help?” Arms open to enfold you. Hopefully. 🙂

    In the meantime, you keep working on you. Look to see why this circumstance is affecting you so deeply. What can you do to not feel so overwhelmed? Can you look at this situation as an opportunity to learn something? Grow even more beautifully? Expand even bigger? Shifting your perspective on things can change everything.

    xxoo



  273.  #273Zia on May 12, 2013 at 3:45 pm

    I feel confused today, after dreaming about the ex. It was to be expected though, since he did send me a text yesterday about a couple of things that i forgot to pack (that he never asked for, and i didn’t see while packing his things.. and after a quick look still can’t see them anywhere).

    I told him if they turn up I’ll let him know then deleted the texts from him. His stuff is out, I’ve deleted his texts, I’ve deleted all the fb messages.

    This is the first time i’ve actually been able to have such a clean break from a relationship in my life.

    My dream… was confusing.

    And I’ve not heard from the younger guy who canceled our date on sat night. I know a part of me feels like he was going to cancel and that he was probably too attractive for me anyway – and i think this is something i need to address (me feeling unworthy of anyone really great looking)



  274.  #274Millie on May 12, 2013 at 4:53 pm

    @270 Blue Rose,

    That’s interesting to hear how your relationship with your dad is playing into your relationships now. I suppose in a way, that is true for all of us.

    I have a hard time staying with men when deep down I believe they are wrong for me, no matter how nice they are. I end up cutting them out after a few months–At some point if feels like work, that’s probably where Rori’s tools will help me. I don’t want to feel like I have to force something simply because he is doing all the right things.

    btw-I’m sorry if my post overwhelmed you.



  275.  #275Olivia on May 12, 2013 at 5:16 pm

    Dominique -Thanks for those very kind words…yes, that is how the situation feels..it’s been almost a year btw.
    And yes, I know I can flip this all to see the purpose. If only just that I’m proud of continuing to wake up everyday and face it and figure out how to “expand” as you say into something else…



  276.  #276Violette on May 12, 2013 at 9:48 pm

    I’m really tired of not getting any dates! I feel like I’ve forgotten how to attract men. I feel pouty.

    Both C and J have been on my mind, like every day. I broke up with C and think about reconnecting with him, although not sure I could handle dealing with the issues we had, and J called like a month ago and I never called back, because his message was playery and I didn’t like that he’d disappeared on me.

    I honestly don’t “get” players. When I think of a guy as a player, I feel bitter inside, and it’s awful. Yet when I don’t, I fall into believing I’m being treated well when I’m being treated like a number really. I wish it felt easier to turn my back on them, but it’s like I don’t believe it, that he could be a player when I felt such a connection with him.



  277.  #277blue rose on May 12, 2013 at 11:03 pm

    #274: Millie

    No don’t apologize. It was good to read all of that. *sigh* I wish it wasn’t so hard. Changing is hard.



  278.  #278Tereana on May 12, 2013 at 11:17 pm

    Jilly, that is so awesome! I loved hearing your story. Everything sounds so beautiful : )

    I miss everyone on the blog today. And I’m sleepy.

    But I had a good CDing weekend. I stepped out if my comfort zone and met with the new guy a second time. I felt triggered when he said he was running late. And I stood my ground. He wanted me to come to the restaurant to meet him – to make it easier – and I said no. I wanted him to come to me. So we did, and we walked together.

    I told him some intimate details, and he understood and listened. I still don’t know if I can fully trust him. Be he said he felt I was “safe.”

    He wants a physical relationship with me, but I need more communication first about our needs and expectations. And – as I told him, and he’s willing to wait – I need more time. This time, I really want to take my time. It doesn’t matter how long. If I go there, it needs to be eyes open, present and in the moment. Until I feel like I can do that, I’m not ready.

    But no rush. I’m taking care of myself, and I’m attractive, no matter what.

    Life is good.

    Sleepy time!!!!



  279.  #279Syreena on May 13, 2013 at 1:35 am

    Wanted to know if anyone recovered from being a victim of assault,mugging etc and taken any self defense classes as part of the recovery process?

    If so what did you kind helped? Dis this change your vibe and perspective?



  280.  #280April Rose on May 13, 2013 at 6:17 am

    Oh Jilly,
    What sweet balm to my soul, to read your news.
    Hugs to you 🙂



  281.  #281Femininewoman on May 13, 2013 at 6:22 am

    1. Take a bath.
    Take a bath in the emotional experience of what you desire. For example, if you want to attract an ideal life partner, ask yourself what emotional experience having this in your reality would bring you – joy, intimacy, adventure, peace, security? Write them down on a cue card next to your bed and remember to ‘bathe’ in these emotions every night before sleep. Just read the emotion and imagine taking a bath in that energy vibration. Soak in it as long as you can. When we sustain positive emotional states that match with our desires vibrationally, we become more magnetic to what we want an well as to many other experiences that resonate with those emotional values.

    2. Breathe.
    Another way to cultivate and sustain these emotional states is to use the breath. Identify the emotions one at a time and imagine breathing in the essence of that emotion on your inhale. Imagine your breath moving this emotional energy into each of the cells in your body. Then breathe out any energy blocking the emotion you want on your exhale. Cycle through this breathing exercise for at least a minute or until you feel your cells vibrating at the desired emotional frequency.

    3. Pivot out of pain.
    If you catch yourself in a negative emotional state like anger, frustration or resentment, it is important to pivot out of these states as quickly as possible so as not to create more of that emotional experience in the future INSTEAD of what we really desire. We can do this by asking a few simple questions:

    a) What am I thinking or doing right now that is triggering this negative emotion?

    b) What can I think or do differently to trigger an improved emotional state?

    c) Think or do that!

    When we can become cognizant of the thoughts and behavior patterns lurking behind our pain we can start shifting it in any moment we choose – in the middle of an argument or in a grocery store line up!

    Practice these tools and watch the miracles of magnetism unfold!

    Making YOU Magnetic,

    http://becrobbins.com/blog/become-magnetic-3-steps-to-powerfully-attract-what-you-want/



  282.  #282MovingMagic on May 13, 2013 at 8:20 am

    My intention this week is on setting boundaries. I love that I’m spontaneous &fun. I do want to be asked out by men in advance though. I feel like there’s a balance here and my goal is discovering it. 😉



  283.  #283Kath on May 13, 2013 at 8:57 am

    Eureka!!!

    Have done a good dose of reading to get to the bottom of what’s been going on and have at last sussed it. My guy is a passive agressive-big time!!- and I have sucked up all that he’s dished out and I burst and threw iot back at him and he’s now labelled me as the bully!- OMG it felt so good to get the clarity!- I can’t believe that I’ve done it again though and picked another guy who has issues and doesn’t think he has!!!!- Ah well, the decision now is, is he worth staying for or not?- Not sure to be honest- On the basis of the words, comments and actions so far- its pretty mixed- but I now have my siren quality back and I am completely at ease again!- woohoo!!!



  284.  #284Emerson on May 13, 2013 at 9:00 am

    244 yes ,look for the message!

    I’m happy that Mother’s Day is over in the same way that I’m happy valentines day is over….I feel empty and sad not being a mom.



  285.  #285Francesca on May 13, 2013 at 9:25 am

    Question:
    I told the man I was in a pretend relationship with that I couldn’t see or talk to him anymore because it was causing me pain. That was and is absolutely true because he would take calls from other women in front of me, etc..
    I am sticking to it and moving forward dating others, dating myself and getting happy. I like life without him in it!
    I drew the line, but my question is…if he were to want to try and be better in the future or even if he just wants contact again, how do I handle it? I am not sure if I should just ban him forever or set boundaries, lean back and allow him in to see if it ever changes….???
    Thanks!!



  286.  #286Emerson on May 13, 2013 at 9:32 am

    279 Syreena,
    Kickboxing is amazing!! I love it!
    Investing in the $15 punching gloves is soo worth it… Punching with flesh fists is just not the same! It’s a great workout and let’s out a lot of tension and anger. It’s very empowering. When I took one class a few years back I ended up meeting a new best friend 🙂



  287.  #287Femininewoman on May 13, 2013 at 10:59 am

    So – here’s how to do Dignity without going “cold”:

    1. Lean back. Pull your energy back into yourself from wherever it is.

    That means – if you’re thinking about a man – stop, and focus on your insides, how you feel, the knot in your stomach.

    If you’re remembering and reliving a painful moment with a man – notice you’re doing it, and pull the energy away from the image and back to your body – your shoulders, your heart, your pelvis. Pull the energy back into you. Now…

    2. Imagine you’re a fairy princess, or a goddess, or an angel or a warrior or a queen, and that you’re made of gold and diamonds. Imagine the heaviness of your golden, diamond-covered self.

    Let the weight of you sink into the floor. Let yourself feel your substance, your emotional and energetic importance, how you matter, how you’re grounded in the earth, how important it is that you are where you are, that you exist. Now…

    3. Breathe.

    Experience what it feels like to be so important and dignified. What it feels like to be responsible for yourself. What it feels like to know you can count on yourself, no matter what. Imagine what Dignity feels like.

    Imagine others looking at you, in your gold and diamonds, in your substance and importance, and imagine them admiring you.

    Experience what it feels like to feel dignified while you are being admired, and keep breathing.

    If you feel yourself starting to float away or emotionally go away, don’t fight it, just sink into yourself and the earth even more deeply. Sink into your pelvis, and feel the weight of you in the center of your body, in your pelvis. Now…

    4. As fairy princess, goddess, angel, warrior, queen, with emotional weight and important substance…practice this feeling of Dignity all throughout the day.

    Whatever happens that would normally throw you off – unpleasant feelings, embarrassment, anything anyone else does or says in your presence – let it go through you – take it in, breathe, and do this Tool.

    You are dignified. Settle into yourself. Settle into your Dignity.

    Let me know how this feels for you, Love, Rori



  288.  #288Femininewoman on May 13, 2013 at 11:01 am

    ‘So saying what you feel is a necessary part of being vulnerable. It doesn’t mean you have to say everything you feel ALL the time. (And most of the time we’re actually speaking about what we THINK, and what we think doesn’t count at all for vulnerability – we’ll talk more about that in future posts.) And it doesn’t mean you spew your feelings out in just any old way.

    What being vulnerable and saying what you feel means – is that there’s a way to talk about what you feel that works, that’s soft and vulnerable, and there’s a way to talk about what you feel that’s dramatic, “intense” and makes him think you’re fragile and difficult.”

    Rori



  289.  #289Daria on May 13, 2013 at 11:39 am

    ohhh Feminine Woman! thank you!!!

    where is the Dignity piece from?



  290.  #290Mercedes on May 13, 2013 at 11:50 am

    I haven’t had a chance to catch up on comments but I read the post. It’s a little weird for me I guess. I can’t remember ever not returning a phone call from a man I was dating. She said he wasn’t very happy about her not being able to stay out that night and then he calls, no answer, no return call. If that happened to me, I would probably assume I was being put off or the other person was pulling away for some reason.

    I know that when I call someone and they don’t respond, I don’t usually call again. It feels clingy and needy to call more than once. Her phone (most likely) has caller ID so he knows she’s aware of the missed call. Ignoring it feels rather off putting to me.

    I do wish Rori would have answered the girlfriend advice question…I think that’s a really good avenue for her to address considering a LOT of people don’t understand leaning back and circular dating.

    Hope everyone had an amazing weekend!

    Much Love,
    Mercedes



  291.  #291Syreena on May 13, 2013 at 12:13 pm

    Ty Emerson, yes loved kickboxing when I did that, Wanted more self defense now for how to protect oneself against real life street crime, muggings etc, rather than fitness and competition playing by the rules martial; arts.



  292.  #292MovingMagic on May 13, 2013 at 12:13 pm

    I realized today that when it comes to men/intimacy I have a hard time putting my needs first. I have been a caregiver most of my adult life & it leaks into almost everypart of my life in some way. There’s alot of beauty in caring for others, I have often overlooked my own needs though. I finally reach the point where I end the relationship out of frustration. I’m sitting down with AttentiveCd this Wednesday to share my needs in dating dynamics, & to discuss my desire to date other men. Initiating this meeting has brought up alot for me. A: I haven’t shared my needs while dating. B: I don’t know that I ever have shared this part of myself in a healthy & open way. C: I need to get clear on just what my needs are if I’m dating exclusively.
    I have a date with a new fella tonight & am looking forward to the experience & continual practice. 🙂



  293.  #293Violette on May 13, 2013 at 1:33 pm

    Good luck with your conversation, Moving Magic. It sounds like a wonderful idea to me!

    I just Facebook stalked J and I feel ridiculous…I just want to understand!!! Why do I fell drawn and repulsed by him and he’s not even in my life and way too much in my head.

    I’m going to be kind to myself. I’m having a difficult moment, and I am important to me and care about me the most.



  294.  #294Dominique on May 13, 2013 at 1:34 pm

    Francesca – 285 – How about crossing that bridge when and if you get to it? What iffing doesn’t serve you in any way. It will tend to cause you more stress and anxiety.

    xxoo



  295.  #295IamHis on May 13, 2013 at 1:35 pm

    …observation. Found myself feeling argumentative this weekend.

    what was the underlying emotion?

    part fear/part playful/part testing the waters.

    one man did not take it well. but I later realized it was a sensitive time when I found out what was going on, and then I felt really guilty.

    another took it so well. he just laughed when I made a little dig, and it made me feel safe. Like he was strong, and knew how to take me/handle me.

    Just feels curious to compare the two different reactions to my little inner debator.

    realized that when I’m feeling sensitive/vulnerable, that I tend to react more like guy A, but when I’m feeling more secure, I respond more like guy B.

    also realizing that is possible to switch between vulnerable/sensitive and confident/playful and that it’s OKAY and human to switch between the two…



  296.  #296IamHis on May 13, 2013 at 1:38 pm

    also, sometimes just in interacting with people in general, people think I’m more sensitive than I am or more callous than I am.

    I think I’m both.

    I feel kind of sad at being misunderstood.
    want to work on communication and consistency.

    up and down moods are OKAY.

    it’s the whole package that matters, and I am determined to love all of her!



  297.  #297IamHis on May 13, 2013 at 1:43 pm

    “…there’s a way to talk about what you feel that’s dramatic, “intense” and makes him think you’re fragile and difficult.”

    I feel triggered by this. I can be dramatic and intense. I am fragile at times. Aren’t we all?

    but that word, difficult. I don’t think I’m difficult.

    Complex? yes.

    but difficult?

    No. I am pliable. I am changeable. You can work with me, and I can work with you.

    I feel so vulnerable right now, typing this on the blog.

    I feel a little teary too.

    I feel sad.

    I feel so curious about these emotions.

    Feel like I’ve been turning a new leaf.

    I feel embarrassed, scared, curious, hopeful, and couragous all at once.

    I feel shy being on the blog after not being here for a while, too.

    weird stuff coming up.

    It’s good stuff.

    My stuff IS good stuff, and I will accept and work on healing all of it.



  298.  #298Francesca on May 13, 2013 at 2:05 pm

    Okay, thanks Dominique. I’ll let go of worrying about it and just be in the moment now. Thanks FeminineWoman for the post on Leaning Back without going cold. I am working on that and will do that exercise for sure!!



  299.  #299MovingMagic on May 13, 2013 at 3:04 pm

    I’m not able to read the current posts for some reason.



  300.  #300Zia on May 13, 2013 at 5:07 pm

    FW (287) oh wow. the timing of that, is perfect. i feel on the verge of tears. thank you for it, i love how i can come on here when i’m feeling uncertain or like i’ve gone backwards, and one of you amazing sirens posts something that is so perfect and exactly what i need.

    <3



  301.  #301ALA on May 13, 2013 at 5:07 pm

    IamHis – nice to ‘see’ you back!

    …settling into my Dignity.

    This feels effortless!

    A new mantra, yay!



  302.  #302janie baby on May 13, 2013 at 6:17 pm

    Dominique and other sirens, I’ve got a little question.

    So recently in the past week or so I think I’ve gotten in the pattern of leading forward maybe?
    like before i was letting him initiate everything but in the past week i’ve initiated most calls. but like he usually comes over every night monday-thursday so its not to make plans its usuall tob e like “WHERE ARE uuu” cause he’s always late or just reaffirm.. today i decided i wasn’t going to and so i didn’t call all day (tonight is our usual monday date night-we always assume it’s on) finally around 6 pm i just called and he woke up from a nap and said “hello?” and i just said heyy what time are you coming? i don’t want to eat so late like all the other times and he said “ok i’ll be there are at 8!” and i said “welll why haven’t you called me all day???” and he said “well i’m seeing you tonight. i just assume we are going to see each other?” and i said “WElll i miss you get over here soon” and it ended well the conversation because i developed a playful attitude about it rather than needyness. Not calling and keeping it in made me feel more needy and when I did call i feel better now but i’m just wondering why this feels better to me. is it wrong to lead forward if you’re being authentic and he’s responding? i know he’s masculine energy because for the first year of our friendship and then the first year of us dating he initiated EVERYTHING –us becoming exclusive, buying me flowers, etcetera, he even studied abroad because i was doing it. this doesn’t really feel bad though.. i was just curious what you think because i know leaning forward is not encouraged. he initiated texts with me over the weekend, and when I called today i started off blamey and kind of bossy but he seems to like it? i’m confused haha i know he’s not female energy either.



  303.  #303Zia on May 13, 2013 at 7:10 pm

    Personally, I’m tired of being the one to initiate, chase, make plans. I want someone who WANTS to do that for me. So, by leaning back I can really see if I’m with a guy who wants to do that for me.

    I thought doing the leading and chasing felt “right” to me when I did it, but it almost always ended up with me feeling anxious and unhappy. Because when I wasn’t chasing, nothing was happening. It was about control for me – trying to control the outcome of the relationship and trying to control the way things were headed. And ultimately, it never ended well.

    So now, by leaning back and letting the guy initiate I can really see if he’s willing to put the effort in, which is what I do want. And by letting go, I feel so much more in control of MYSELF, and MY emotions.



  304.  #304Zia on May 13, 2013 at 7:13 pm

    janie baby – which of rori’s tools do you have? have you read the ebook?



  305.  #305janie baby on May 13, 2013 at 7:37 pm

    thanks for sharing Zia!
    Yes, I have read the book, and leaning back has helped me numerous times. I was just curious about what people felt about leaning forward when it feels right.

    It’s so true that it’s the inside that counts though.

    It’s just weird to me because I’ve had many guy friends fall in love with me because I’d initiate with them but because I was not interested in a romantic way it felt like leaning back in a way? Hmm.. dont know how to explain

    sometimes I’ll “lean back” in action but be secretly longing for my boyfriend to call me and I feel like he can feel it. sometimes i’ll “lean foward” and feel at peace i don’t know…

    I don’t want to get in the pattern of being the ones planning everything again though so maybe time to lean back more this week. hmmmm.



  306.  #306Zia on May 13, 2013 at 8:10 pm

    For me, when I first started leaning back (in my bad relationships) it felt like withdrawl, and that initiating when in that state was to get my “fix”. In that I was reaching out to get something, ANYTHING, from him. It was neediness and addiction pure and simple.

    I’ve finally realised that that is the absolute wrong time to initiate or reach out. It always felt awful, because I started to realised that even when I got what I wanted from him (attention or to see him) it never really felt completely “good” because *I* had to do the work! And worst case scenario, he would ignore my attempt to reach out. And then I just felt unloved and unwanted.

    If/when I do it from a place of expressing with no expectations, no agenda, no need for control or not wanting anything in return, that’s when it feels right.



  307.  #307k2012 on May 13, 2013 at 8:14 pm

    “I have close to a zero tolerance policy when it comes to hearing about a man’s ex.” Indeed. Don’t remember who said this. Who wants to hear about a mans ex! It is clearly saying he is not over her. And believe me, If I get involved with a man who speaks about his a lot and clearly indicates by his actions that he is not over her, I am outta that relationship in a flash. Run to the nearest exit. A man not over his ex is equal to EMOTIONALLY UNAVAILABLE. If u still love ur ex then, I am gone. I am not playing second fiddle to no mans ex!!!! U must be mad. Not this girl. Oh!!



  308.  #308Millie on May 13, 2013 at 8:27 pm

    Hi Janie Baby,

    It sounds like you hit the nail on the head in your last comment. You mentioned that sometimes when you “lean back” in action, your insides are really leaning forward wanting him to call…and other times when you have “leaned forward” in action, your insides are very at peace. Perhaps leaning forward in the past has worked for you because your vibe was peaceful, so regardless of what you did, your vibe did more?

    In my experience, I feel like my leaning forward with a man kind of “trained him” not to step up. He didn’t need to because he knew I would call, plan, initiate, etc. The balance of every relationship is different, but eventually I realized I took his job away, and expecting him to pick it back up when I wanted wasn’t exactly clear or fair. I guess my short answer is, perhaps he isn’t calling because he knows you’ll call him??



  309.  #309Tereana on May 13, 2013 at 9:05 pm

    Emerson – 284: I hear you. This is actually the first year that I’ve felt the same way. I had a hard time with the day, reading everyone’s grateful posts about their moms. I felt left out, because I couldn’t come up with anything sincere to say, so I just said nothing. I wished my mom a half-hearted Mother’s Day. And then today, I found myself eyeing all the magazines with pictures of pregnant celebrities, and realized: I WANT THAT. I want it so much, and yet I don’t feel “ready,” nor do I have a partner yet. I could always have a baby by IVF, like me friend did. But I really want the partner, too. I want it all. Lol. And I guess I don’t feel yet like I can. *sigh* I know it’s not “too late” for me. But it’s starting to feel that way. So many people I know have kids now. I feel like I’m being left behind…*sniff*



  310.  #310angela on May 13, 2013 at 9:09 pm

    Ladies- Do any of you know of a way to lose the hope you have for a man to step up? A way to stop fantasizing of a future with a man who is not here right now? How do you let it go? thanks and yes i know part of it will be circular dating.



  311.  #311Zia on May 13, 2013 at 9:12 pm

    Tereana – as a single mother (since 4 months pregnant) I can say that IF you want a baby, and haven’t found the right guy to settle down with, then go for it! Single parenting has its ups and downs, but I’ve always wanted to be a parent, and am so happy to have my little guy in my life, even as a single mother.

    I very very VERY much wanted the “marriage, then kids, then happily ever after”, and the universe decided differently – I was 30, single, living at home with my parents and pregnant. My life has SO not turned out the way I thought I wanted it to – but I wouldn’t change a thing because I am really happy.

    I think that taking a baby out of the equation can also take away a lot of the neediness and rush felt at the start of a relationship when we know our biological clocks are ticking. If I hadn’t’ve had my boy, and had hit 35 with no man in sight, I would have definitely gone down a donor or otherwise path to become a mother.

    Hope this helps xo



  312.  #312Zia on May 13, 2013 at 9:15 pm

    angela – i had to focus every day on gently pulling my thoughts away from him, and focus on what is in front of me right now. i still have to do it, even though it’s been two months since my ex and i broke up. rori’s feeling tools work well – with touching an object and observing how it feels. circular dating also helps as you mentioned, it has helped me a LOT. because i have been on a couple of dates where although i don’t see anything further with the guy, on the date they made me feel important and special. and it was a great feeling to experience 🙂



  313.  #313Indigo on May 13, 2013 at 9:16 pm

    Hey k2012,

    That was me. I must say, I don’t do it in a dramatic way or get upset if a guy talks about his ex, I just simply say that I don’t like it and that it feels bad, and I leave the conversation if I have to. I believe that most guys are fully well aware of the fact that their current love does not want to hear about their exes.



  314.  #314Tereana on May 13, 2013 at 9:44 pm

    Ok, I know this isn’t a big deal. But I’m already feeling “abandoned” even though it has only been a few days since I saw him. And he hasn’t contacted me, as usual. I can only assume this means he is no longer interested. And/or I might not be, either. I did give him lots of intimate details. He called me “sweetie.” But that means nothing.

    His not being in touch could mean nothing, too. Except for something he said. He said that he was attracted to me then, right there, that night. But that he might not be tomorrow. Hm…sounds like a guy who’s not sure what he wants.

    I told him he seemed like “a mess.” And he does. I was being totally honest, and he didn’t seem offended by that. However, he may just be in a whimsical state of mind. Aims that doesn’t need one woman but many. However, I need to be the only woman in the room. I do not function well otherwise.

    Also, he talked about his ex and other women. I don’t believe he is in love with any of them, but it sounds like he is not over them either. Hence, he seems to me like “a mess.”

    He said “love me as I am.” And that’s about what I can do. I don’t know if I can have a relationship with him. But maybe I can just practice. I feel broken and “a mess.” That makes me feel unlovable. But is he unlovable? I don’t think so. I think he just wants to be loved…

    And that thought feels good & makes me heart feel soft and warm and gooey. I’m still refraining from contacting him, just in case. I want to give him space, so that he will feel freedom. But I like the idea of practicing loving him “as be is,” not as I might wish him to be…and this is definitely an area I need practice in.

    Practice: go! : ) lol



  315.  #315angela on May 13, 2013 at 9:47 pm

    thank you Zia and the work is here now right? So why not work with it to become happier and more of me! thanks again love to you!



  316.  #316MovingMagic on May 13, 2013 at 10:32 pm

    I went on a date tonight and had so much fun! I can’t remember the last time I laughed so much. He’s a cutie & expressed interest in doing it again. I had to remind myself to slow down & go into feminine mode often though. Sometimes switching hats can be like a juggling act. My plate is so full with my teaching jobs, dance, & dance projects I can feel far away from feminine at times. I have a few days off of work & want to take some time to get into a slower moving, more sensual me.



  317.  #317Tereana on May 13, 2013 at 10:41 pm

    Oops – * my heart and * as he is * lol

    Phone typos..



  318.  #318Tereana on May 13, 2013 at 10:42 pm

    MovingMagic – that sounds awesome! 🙂



  319.  #319Indigo on May 13, 2013 at 10:51 pm

    angela,

    I want to echo what Zia has said. Aside from circular dating, which is a very helpful and essential part of the process (when you get to that point), all you can do is gently pull your thoughts away from him, every day, many times a day. When you find yourself all wrapped in your head, going over things again and again, just pull yourself into the present moment and into your body using your five senses: Breathe the air in – notice how it smells, Feel the touch of it on your skin – is it hot or cold? Take a wide view and notice everything around you, take in all of the sights. Listen for all of the little sounds that you might normally miss. Then do something to engage your body – go for a walk, have a bath, make a hot cup of tea.

    Yet this is powerful, because it becomes a habit, and being in your head less makes it much easier to move on with your life.

    xxx



  320.  #320Francesca on May 13, 2013 at 10:55 pm

    @Millie—
    Your earlier post sounds just like me too. I am missing sex, but I don’t want to reach out to any of my exes because I have a pattern of doing that and then confusing myself. And I don’t want to reach out to anybody anymore.
    I have an online dating profile and I can barely bring myself to reply to anyone. I am going to force myself to go on dates.
    Mostly I feel like dating myself, but I know that it boosts my self-esteem to go out with others and to remind me of all the options out there.
    If I do go out, I am going to practice my leaning back warmly and see how it goes. If others can get the hang of this, so can I!



  321.  #321Kath on May 13, 2013 at 11:35 pm

    Its amazing whren you do pull your thoughts away from him that the thoughts that come into your head about how the relationship has gone so far can be truly mind blowing. When I think backk to the start of my relationship everything happened so fast, and he led it!- all the way and I got totally swept off my feet by it all. Wow here was a guy who everybody thought was wonderful paying me loads of attention and wanting to be with me!- Here was a guy who had loads of friends and who even maintained friendships with his x-wife and his x’s. Wow! and he’s a great Dad and a fab grandad and wow!- he’s so caring and thoughtful!….It went on and on but then, the perfume he first bought me was his favourite perfume, the dress he found me for a party was what he liked, the first weekend we went away on was to a place he’d taken his wife, his lovers and his children and the holiday we went on was to a place he’d also taken all of the above!- Gradually I started noticing that “me” was being absorbed by this man and when I started to question little things or try and understand why he suddenly got moody or felt quite distant, it was either confusing or upsetting. I moved in with him last June and from that point things started going down hill. I got more depressed, he got more distant-less loving, more irritated, patience lessened, kind words and actions dwindled and then the blaming started!- Its a pattern I should have picked up on more quickly. So, the arguing got more frequent and more intense until this last massive one which was the last one. Things that he’s said and done don’t give me a warm fuzzy feeling and don;t give me much hope that there is a future for us. I think I would spend a lot of time being unhappy or worrying about whether he really loved me. He needs to feel needed and in charge- I need to feel loved and wanted. Don;t get me wrong, I do love him, even now I can see all his faults- I understand them but he doesn’t see them and has been too focussed on everything being my fault and my “issue”. He went away this morning apparently will be gone until the weekend- gives us both space to think. However, I know he will once again try to be the one to decide about the relationship- he’s done it with every relationship he’s ever had- and I know for him, we’re over. Its cool, I’m seeing my wonderful therapist on friday to get some clarity-I am cool with me, warts and all.



  322.  #322Indigo on May 14, 2013 at 3:53 am

    Janie baby 302

    When you have been with someone for a long time, it is less about rigidly leaning back and more about flow. And so sometimes it would be perfectly natural for you to lean forward and this would even help the flow of the relationship. I know Dominique teaches this.

    I have to say what concerned me a little about your post was this “I miss youuu” aspect of your phone call, when you were going to see him later that night. It does come across as needy, as does needing to phone him every day if he doesn’t phone you. Leave it for a day or two – guaranteed *he* will phone you eventually, and it will be good for you. It will give you a sense of the needy or anxious vibe in yourself, and that is where (I feel) the work is.

    x



  323.  #323April Rose on May 14, 2013 at 5:13 am

    Hello Kath,

    I can feel your strength and your clarity and that feels good to me.
    I’m also wondering if a part of you is in shock here. And I hope you can be really soft and gentle with yourself while he is away. Maybe cuddle yourself and weep if you feel the tears coming.
    Hugs,



  324.  #324IamHis on May 14, 2013 at 5:45 am

    @301 ALA – thank you so much! You have no idea how good it feels to be “seen!” Haven’t been feeling “seen” very much lately.

    Have needed a lot of alone time, and have recently gotten “back out into the world.” Feels a little scary, but refreshing too!

    How have YOU been, ALA?



  325.  #325Kath on May 14, 2013 at 5:55 am

    April Rose, thank you- I am in shock, you’re right-and the tears are flowing easily!- Feelings are really mixed though, part of me feels as though I’m already grieving and then another part of me is resigned to the fact that its over and feels ok about it. Does that make sense?- I know that he has shut down from me and that feels so unfair when its my reaction to his consistent behaviour that has got us to this point. I guess I have to accept that though- I certainly wasn’t prepared to be any more depressed for any longer- it felt horrible!!- I’m looking after myself for the next few days and when I see him again, I see him again. I’ll know by his body language how he feels and what he’s thinking.



  326.  #326MovingMagic on May 14, 2013 at 7:06 am

    It feels so amazing having 2 days off from teaching. I plan on getting into total feminine mode. Yes!!



  327.  #327MovingMagic on May 14, 2013 at 7:17 am

    Kath, take care of yourself. Love on yourself. Perhaps write in a journal. Long walks often remind me to breathe and stay centered. Do you have a strong community of women around you?



  328.  #328sophie on May 14, 2013 at 7:23 am

    Ha Moving Magic – Love that! 🙂 It just spun me off into thinking about feminine mode and how I am due to go out in the rain any moment. I find it so much more conducive to feminine mode when I just get to ‘be’ in the sun rather than ‘compete’ against the rain ha ha. I love the feminine simplicity of sunshine clothing too; the floaty dresses and sireny sandals. And I can feel all dreamy and paint myself in love-y in the sun as I stroll along the street. I’m just thinking about my destination and how long it’ll take me to get there in the rain ha ha. I feel all black leggings and raincoat in the rain though I do have a bright flowery umbrella its hard to keep it up:) 35 years of English weather and I have never got used to it 🙂 🙂 🙂 How to be a siren in the rain? 🙂



  329.  #329Dominique on May 14, 2013 at 9:02 am

    janie baby – 302 – Leaning forward is fine now and then IF you think you can handle a possible non response. IF you have no expectations.

    I understand how you love constant contact. Most men don’t after awhile. You were going to see each other later after all, and if it’s a standing get together then there’s no need to confirm.

    This may help – http://sexandheart.com/phases-of-relationship

    xxoo



  330.  #330Kath on May 14, 2013 at 9:23 am

    Moving Magic, I am keeping a journal, have been for a while when I couldn’t get my head round why we kept not understanding each other. Now things make more sense.

    I have come back to the house and am sitting typing this in the kitchen in tears!- I hate the fact that I’m in the house on my own. i hate the fact that I’m going to be here on my own until at least the weekend-feels like a prison, not home.



  331.  #331Femininewoman on May 14, 2013 at 10:08 am

    Kath is there any way you could treat yourself to a mini vacation somewhere?



  332.  #332Kath on May 14, 2013 at 10:11 am

    I wish I could!- no money I’m afraid- so I’m going to take care of me in other ways- hot baths, early nights- just me the cat now!- Is it crazy that I just want to shake him and hug him and tell him how much I love him and so want us to work!?!



  333.  #333ALA on May 14, 2013 at 10:26 am

    IamHis – Thanks for asking! I feel better today than yesterday… and the day before, and the day before that. I kinda had a breakdown on Mother’s day in front of my family and with their support I’m going to see if I can find a therapist. Dealing with D, coming back and going away, all the other women, the screaming at me, etc, etc, etc has taken it’s toll on me. I really need some clarity. On the upside a CD is suppose to call me today to see if we can do something together. My vibe really needs some positive male attention! 😉



  334.  #334BeLoved on May 14, 2013 at 10:59 am

    287

    FW

    “2. Imagine you’re a fairy princess, or a goddess, or an angel or a warrior or a queen, and that you’re made of gold and diamonds. Imagine the heaviness of your golden, diamond-covered self.

    Let the weight of you sink into the floor. Let yourself feel your substance, your emotional and energetic importance, how you matter, how you’re grounded in the earth, how important it is that you are where you are, that you exist. Now…”

    Ohhhhhh thank you thank you!!!!
    This
    Feels
    Sooooo
    Gooood.
    I used to have a friend who was a goldsmith and I would hang out with him while he refined gold. I held a gold bar once and the texture is so soft and dense and rich,
    I’ve been using this all day and it feels amazing.



  335.  #335April Rose on May 14, 2013 at 11:05 am

    Kath,
    It’s not crazy.
    Have you got Rori’s ‘Reconnect’ program?



  336.  #336Femininewoman on May 14, 2013 at 11:10 am

    https://blog.havetherelationshipyouwant.com/love-life/how-to-be-in-your-dignity-the-jennifer-aniston-character/

    Let’s start with the Jennifer Aniston character – I’ll describe her and the lesson she brings in one word: Dignity.

    The hallmark of this movie is how every female character is so brave. So willing to change directions, to learn, to start fresh – to hear the TRUTH. They don’t flinch. When they get helpful information, they act on it, they learn.

    In Jennifer Aniston’s case, she’s been living for 7 years with Ben Affleck in a wonderful, easy, fun, communicative, lovely relationship – but he “doesn’t believe in marriage.”



  337.  #337Femininewoman on May 14, 2013 at 11:17 am

    “Is it crazy that I just want to shake him and hug him and tell him how much I love him and so want us to work!”

    That is the reason why the concept of counterintuitive is forefront in my mind. When we are in the relationship we focus on the things that we believe are not working for us. We scream and yell and fight with the man because of all his faults. When he decides he has had enough we turn around beat ourselves up and want to turn back the clock and re-do. Why not just stop in the midst of brouhaha and make a different choice? Why not try letting go of being right and try to negotiate?

    One minute he is doing things wrong. We see all the signs (in our story) that he is all wrong. Yet when the story ends we want to start it all over again. I wish we could all grow beyond our blind spot.



  338.  #338Femininewoman on May 14, 2013 at 11:19 am

    Beloved I love the imagery of the Rori’s and have been visualizing myself as royalty after reading that. All laden with gold and upright, while radiating confidence.



  339.  #339April Rose on May 14, 2013 at 11:22 am

    Oh Femininewoman,
    I wish I knew for sure how much my own ego/misguided intuition is rubbing a man up to act badly in the relationship, and how much is his stuff.



  340.  #340April Rose on May 14, 2013 at 11:23 am

    And how much is due to a simple case of incompatibility.
    This is where lots of practice with lots of men comes in, right?



  341.  #341Femininewoman on May 14, 2013 at 11:26 am

    April Rose I don’t believe mine or your intuition is misguided. Or anyone else’s for that matter. Or that our ego is doing anything to any man. What I believe in is awareness and faith in myself. To really pay attention to myself. To know that I have power to make choices in every moment.



  342.  #342April Rose on May 14, 2013 at 11:27 am

    FW,
    Sounds great that you don’t doubt yourself.
    I hope to get to that place in myself very soon.



  343.  #343Kath on May 14, 2013 at 11:28 am

    FW- You’re kind of right-yes, there were a lot of things that I started thinking he was doing wrong, but I also accept my failings too. As well as being a man and a woman who love each other we are also the survivors of abuse-physical and emotional-and it should have creasted a bond but instead we have worked against that and not acknowledged the effects our anger has on the other person. I guess we’ve both been in blame mode-but I have gone inside and read and now understand what I need to do in order to make him feel safe-but he also needs to do work and that is the sticking point. Will he repeat the same relationship mistakes as he has done already?- or will he see that perhaps this time, things could change for the better?- $64,000 question!- and one that I can have no influence over his answer- just to hope that I can get to say what I feel when he comes back. This is surely a lesson in giving time and not calling, texting, etc and just allowing him the space he needs to think things through. I’m so not good at this.



  344.  #344Femininewoman on May 14, 2013 at 11:30 am

    April Rose – just because I have faith in myself doesn’t mean that I don’t have doubts. I do but now instead of being driven by my emotions and passion I choose. Even it means to sit/stand still and do nothing. Or just move. Anything or any other choice aside from acting out on my emotions.



  345.  #345Kath on May 14, 2013 at 11:42 am

    Now that’s what I need to learn!- take a breath, stand still, don’t act on my emotions. Guess what I’m going to be practising over the next few days!



  346.  #346Dominique on May 14, 2013 at 12:31 pm


  347.  #347Kath on May 14, 2013 at 12:50 pm

    Dominique, thank you, you are wonderful and I so wish I had your insight but I’m scared that what you’ve given me is the closing the gate after the horse has bolted thing- What happened between me and my guy at the weekend was a complete desperate, frustrated action on both our parts-me frustrated at him not understanding me and him being frustrated that I was still “going on about” things that happened a few months ago. I am not a nag but I had lost trust in him because I believe that he is still in love with his wife- and even though he denies that he is, he has said that he will always love the 16yr old girl he met. I understand that, but there is still the thing of the relationship now being very confused-boundaries not there or changing as and when he wants- and I notice!- I’m intelligent- I can see- but when I say anything, he says I’m reading too much into it or making any other kind of excuse- uhuh!- I know I aint!!- but he has to seem to make me out to be the obsessive and paranoid one-when really I’m not!- Jeez, I’ve been married and I’ve been in a couple of long term relationships, I know the score-I aint daft!- but I do love him and I wish he would just feel safe enough to be honest with me. Trouble is, now that we’re apart for four or more days, I know I need to respect his space, but how do I let him know/hear that I am sorry for what’s happened and I want a chance to talk????



  348.  #348Indigo on May 14, 2013 at 12:55 pm

    Kath,

    It sounds like you have great self-awareness.

    I so feel for you, because I feel that I’ve been where you are. For me, the way to healing, both by myself and in relationship, has always been through a combination of complete surrender to my feelings and vulnerability on the one hand, and trusting my boundaries and strength to protect me on the other.

    I wish you strength and comfort and peace over the next few days.



  349.  #349Nanci on May 14, 2013 at 1:01 pm

    Hi Ladies – I found Rori last night and I salute her and now all of you as I have read of your situations.
    I am now realizing how responsible I am for repeating the same errors in many of my relationships.
    I’m here for help – and I thank all of you in advance!
    Regards
    Nanci



  350.  #350Kath on May 14, 2013 at 1:03 pm

    Indigo, thank you for your lovely words- they mean a lot. I am trying to stay strong and will be writing a lot in the journal later believe me!- I just feel so sad!!- I feel angry too that he has gone away, or run away, whichever you like to see it as, and I am left here, alone, to face the reality of where we’re at. He has run to family and familiar faces where he feels safe (ever the theme running there!) and I am left to face it alone. I don’t resent it, really, its just interersting how he does things when I didn;’t take nlotice of it before. I am emotionally stronger than he is- but I hope that he can see that as a positive thing and not something that he
    has to challenge!-



  351.  #351Indigo on May 14, 2013 at 1:04 pm

    Wow, so much lovely stuff coming at me from men over the last few days.

    Date from last Sunday and Friday night (I shall call him R) called me last night and wants to make me dinner tomorrow night. It was so perfect and sweet the way he ended the conversation with, “so… when can we meet up again?” And then came up with the idea of making me dinner. I have been in complete and utter feminine mode with this guy, and it’s a lovely, soft feeling.

    There is something with D too. He had band practice last night and got home late, yet the first thing he did when he got home was send me a message. I went round to watch TV for a short while this evening, and he went out to the shops and came back with some nougat and sweets for me. And made me tea.

    I am getting used to really feeling and receiving and appreciating these small acts of love. Somehow they feel deep down the best.



  352.  #352MovingMagic on May 14, 2013 at 1:07 pm

    I usually don’t mind hearing about ex girlfriends. I feel like it can lead me to a deeper understanding.



  353.  #353Dominique on May 14, 2013 at 1:07 pm

    Kath – Feeling safe with you takes a man time, sometimes a very long time. Looking back over the years with K, I can see this so clearly. When K actually felt safe enough to be completely open with me, and I don’t necessarily mean with words, I couldn’t say though it’s more recent.

    It’s not that there wasn’t trust before, it just wan’t as easy and free flowing as now. There were areas of sometimes just a feeling in me that he wasn’t telling me things that I though were important or that he was holding pieces of himself back.

    Mirror much? Of course. http://sexandheart.com/is-your-man-your-mirror

    We have the relationship we have now in large part because I left all of this alone to unfold as it does, and I kept my focus as firmly on myself as I possible could. The more I healed, the more did he. The safer I felt, the more did he. The more open I became,and again I don’t mean words so much, the more did he.

    Things I used to wish he did or said but which I had let go of completely, came to be. This truly blossomed into the relationship I wanted though didn’t know it. It came from me allowing him to be himself and loving and accepting him just as he was. I didn’t look for change. Yet in this he DID change.

    xxoo



  354.  #354MovingMagic on May 14, 2013 at 1:21 pm

    I need to feel my feminine spirit. I feel so disconnected these days. I’m such a power house. A tornado of movement & color. I’ve had so much going on recently I’m in total “take care of baby-girl” mode…I’m forgetting that I AM baby girl. *Sophie* let’s make a pact: girl mode ~starting now!!



  355.  #355Millie on May 14, 2013 at 2:49 pm

    @320 Francesca,
    Yes, I have had a habit of that too…but I’m so done with that. I want fresh and new and exciting! I’m curious to know what is it that you do not like about online dating?

    I need a practice too, the other day I was at Whole Foods, thinking of Lisa’s post about the grocery store and CDing. A guy asked me if I needed help and when I saw how cute he was, this wave of shyness overcame me and I just said “No thanks, I’m okay.” Afterwards I was kicking myself for acting so Not Sireny. I’m not even a shy person, and I did have a question about a product! Oh I felt so silly..that made me realize that while I feel really confident in myself, I need a lot of practice with the tools.



  356.  #356Krist on May 14, 2013 at 2:51 pm

    Hi, I have a question, My husband and I are having some problems he says I verbally abuse him when I’m mad..which I have done in the past. He says that now he isn’t in love with me like he was, he says he was soo in love with me and now he feels nothing, but I still love him, we don’t fight at all anymore, but we are still in the same home and he still helps me out and we talk even better now..do you think he really isn’t in love with me anymore and if so is it possible to come back after all the damage I’ve done?? please help…:(



  357.  #357April Rose on May 14, 2013 at 2:55 pm

    Millie,
    Maybe prepare a script you can use for questions like ”do you need any help?”, and if you miss that one, you could prepare something like “I feel embarrassed now! It would feel great to get some advice about …(a product etc)…”

    No chance is ever lost. There’s always a chance to express the feeling about missing the chance!



  358.  #358Francesca on May 14, 2013 at 3:00 pm

    Me too! Always though,if I actually think he is cute and am caught off guard, I go shy and I do not do that in other situations. I can’t wait until I practice so much that it is just my inherent reaction to smile confidently and warmly.

    There are a few things about online dating I don’t like. At first I liked it and had a few nice dates, but then it felt like work. I just didn’t want to message back and forth. I just wanted to meet because messaging has not been an accurate indicator of whether or not I will like a guy. Then it became a chore to figure out times to meet and none of the guys really inspired me. The persistent ones kind of scare me off actually. Also seeing all the ones I don’t like started to depress me.
    I think I need a serious attitude adjustment and to just get out there and do it, so I am going to fake it til I make it. I know I go in spurts of being enthusiastic and then getting burned out just because I have other stuff on my plate.
    I feel like reading and doing some inner work these days, so maybe that is part of it too. I definitely need to be in a better place before I can have a successful relationship. Sometimes I get overwhelmed.



  359.  #359Zara on May 14, 2013 at 3:10 pm

    He’s Not My Business
    Written by Rori Raye 30 October 2009

    Halloween has always been one of my favorite – perhaps my actual favorite – holidays. I just find it such a combination of fun, scary, pretend, meaningful, going outside your comfort zone, parties that don’t have family significance, neighborhood, childhood, being a mom with a flashlight, candy I can’t eat but can collect and touch, carnivals, dress up, touching my inner “stranger.”

    This is one of my traditional Halloween essays…let’s make this Halloween about taking off the masks…

    Some days, it’s always Halloween.

    It seems so much easier to stay hidden behind a mask. If I’m feeling grumpy, or ugly, or awkward or nervous, or really, really angry, or really, really embarrassed, I’d like to keep it to myself.

    No one wants to see that, not even me. I’m much too strong for that, much too organized, smart, capable and high on the consciousness scale to go there, into Ickyfeelingsland. I’ll keep it to myself.

    And the playing pieces — the red and blue wooden ones and the plastic houses and fake money all just keeping jumping around inside me in their own little world. Little do I know you can all see the action anyway.

    If I’m angry, you can see it. If I’m upset, you can feel it. If I put a big smile on my face but you can actually feel my anger, yeah, you may think I’m a wondrously complex human being — but our relationship will suffer.

    Carol Pearson, in her book The Hero Within, says “Being ladylike or gentlemanly and denying one’s anger simply results in the unconscious sabotage of relationships. Expressing one’s anger is transformative because it allows for a true and open, honest relationship. It makes way, therefore, for love.”

    We have so many reasons for not expressing our feelings openly and in the moment: It’s not appropriate. I’m wrong about it. What I’m feeling is so childish. I’ve done much too much work on myself to be feeling like this. They all boil down to fear.

    Fear of retribution — He’ll get mad at me. Fear of what will happen — He’ll leave me. Fear of what he’ll think of us — He already thinks I’m a drama queen, now he’ll think I’m needy.

    Yep, we don’t know what’ll happen. The risks, however, of speaking our feelings in bits and pieces and in words men can hear are minuscule compared to the risks of not speaking our feelings.

    When we stuff them in, hold them down, try to refashion them through affirmations or being “our best selves,” we may think we’re being successful at it, but sooner or later one or all of three things will happen:

    One, the pressure and energy will build up until it explodes and you come out swinging, screaming, crying, attacking, throwing things, slamming doors, pleading, apologizing, cowering, melting down, folding up, giving up and giving in. A relationship in which this goes on all the time is not fun for anybody in it.

    Two, the pressure and energy will be ignored and allowed to build up until it explodes inside you and you get depressed or sick. A relationship in which this happens may seem safe, because everyone here avoids real connection and real love, but it doesn’t feel very good.

    Three, you are able to hold in, cover up, and transform the pressure and energy until you become locked into a personality and state of being that is not your own. Everything may seem okay here until you get a glimpse that you’re living someone else’s life – and the way back to yourself seems overwhelming.

    In Rori Raye terms, Saying how you feel in the moment is taking care of yourself and your relationships in the best way possible. Every time you say only “I feel disconnected,” or “I feel sad,” or “I feel soooo goood!” and then let your man come up with the next sentence, you are creating alchemy. Magic happens inside your body. The energy that’s been built up trying to keep the feeling hidden suddenly is released.

    Both the feeling and the energy fighting it suddenly start flowing thorough you and become a part of you. It’s like reclaiming lost energy. Like reclaiming lost bits of ourselves. Like turning hay into gold.

    The more we reclaim, the more we change and grow. We become new people – chemically. Our relationships are the culture, the medium in which we can grow ourselves. Staying frozen in the patterns of behavior we’ve known since childhood, even if our thinking and philosophies have changed and expanded, is still staying frozen.

    Devoting our lives to constantly tracking, guessing, analyzing, measuring, trying to change what’s going on in our men’s minds, hearts and bodies is a sad waste of our considerable, wonderful energies. Making him our project is us dismissing who we are — as if who we are is helplessly linked to who he is.

    How much more fun and satisfying it would be to like what we like and just simply not like what we don’t like. To love ourselves for who we are — even if we’re not quite sure at any given moment who that is — Halloween mask and all.

    It takes courage to risk what we know to have what we don’t know. It takes faith to risk what we’re comfortable with to have what we yearn for. It takes a new belief to trust the person in front of you with your heart, little by little, until you both see that both of you are worthy.

    Stand up for yourself. Be for yourself. Be for love. Receive love. Accept or reject what is in front of you. Tolerate nothing.

    Love, Rori



  360.  #360Rori Raye on May 14, 2013 at 3:48 pm

    Krist – Congratulations for learning new ways to communicate with your man that are more mature and easier to hear! – AND, my guess is that you’ve sacrificed some of your emotional “juice.” Please work with the ebook – see if the Tools there help you quickly. The dynamic between cold and hot, independent and inter-dependent, and how your whole energy feels to him are all part of the mix. Yes – you can fix this. Love, Rori



  361.  #361Heart on May 14, 2013 at 3:48 pm

    Hi all – well there is this attractive guy at work…and we’ve beem checking in each other out a little. I’m completely notinterested but it feels fun to go to work thinking -oh that guy might be there…



  362.  #362Katarina Phang on May 14, 2013 at 4:09 pm

    Krist, of course it’s not too late. Go back to your feminine strength which is soft in the outside and strong in the inside. Lure him back with your feminine energy. Your abusiveness depolarizes the relationship. You can polarize your relationship back and magnetize him by shifting your vibe from masculine aggression to feminine receptiveness.



  363.  #363Katarina Phang on May 14, 2013 at 4:20 pm

    Your husband will fall back in love with you if he feels appreciated as a man. The hardest thing is really to work on ourselves so we can genuinely feel appreciation for our man. One thing that needs to go is expectations: the needs for things to be a certain way for you to be happy. That’s POISON. And focus on his goodness and encourage it by being grateful for it however small it may be.

    Mention it a lot and thank him for that.

    This article might inspire you:

    http://katarinaphang.com/why-cultivating-feminine-magnetism-will-make-him-putty-in-your-hands/



  364.  #364Zia on May 14, 2013 at 4:50 pm

    A REALLY good looking man chatted to me at the train station this morning, I need to learn to be open and receptive and not clam up when this happens! All in good time 🙂



  365.  #365Radlove on May 14, 2013 at 6:04 pm

    Mercedes,

    290 – Hi! About the girlfriend advice question, in the past, Rori has told me in the past that I don’t need advice from 20 directions. That mainly adds confusion, not real help. I have found I feel more clear minded getting advice from only 1-3 closer friends. If it’s something more general I don’t mind throwing it out there.



  366.  #366Radlove on May 14, 2013 at 6:13 pm

    Sirens,

    You don’t have me anymore to tell you…there’s a new post! Hahaha!

    Jilly? Wow! You are living my dream life! Congratulations!



  367.  #367janie baby on May 14, 2013 at 9:10 pm

    Thank you Dominique and Indigo

    Loved the article Dominique!!
    Gracias 🙂 I want to have a relationship like yours!



  368.  #368MovingMagic on May 14, 2013 at 9:25 pm

    I bought rose oil today. It smells so inviting to me & reminds me to slow down & lead with my senses a bit more.



  369.  #369k2012 on May 14, 2013 at 9:51 pm

    Oh it was you Indigo. Ok. If a man mentions his ex ONE time, I can live with that but I will be listening very carefully to see if he is always talking about her. I would not be saying a word at each mention. But if it happens too often and I am convinced he is still in love with her, I am going to say it to him and no amount of denying can convince me. Cause it means he would be wasting time with me cause he would still be in love with his ex. Beloved, saw your response. I am distancing myself from long distance relationships. Not going there. Where online relationships are concerned, I have to meet the peerson shortly after. I was reading a tip online dating and the article said that people must try and meet the person shortly after so that things get real. I agree. Its important. The same you said. No instant messages, no texting and emails back and forth for lengthy times. That’s what I did with Overseas cd. Hairdresser warn me about long distance relationship and I am listening cause this advice is coming from a higher power and she is the messenger. She is not too keen on online dating and is cautioning me about that too but she has said however that if the person resides here in my country, it is okay but I am to stay away from long distance guys online. The main consensus with online dating I am picking up so far is that persons must meet as soon as possible.



  370.  #370Katarina Phang on May 14, 2013 at 9:58 pm

    Heart, are you sure you are really not interested? 😉

    I said the same thing about my bf and he pursued me and I melted.

    That’s what often happens with women. We can be “persuaded.” If you are looking forward to his attention or flirting with him, very likely there is some seed there that just needs to be watered and the right man won’t have a problem turns that “disinterest” to a full-blown interest.

    Just saying. 😉



  371.  #371Katarina Phang on May 14, 2013 at 9:59 pm

    …oopps won’t have a problem to TURN that “disinterest” to a full-blown interest.



  372.  #372Millie on May 16, 2013 at 12:04 am

    @357 April Rose-
    Thank you! I will try that. I like the idea of expressing about a missed opportunity, that is so authentic.



  373.  #373Paula on May 18, 2013 at 7:38 am

    Hey Rori,

    i have been getting to know a guy for about a month, we have caught up a couple times and get along great.. the last time we caught up was 4 days ago when he invited me over to his place. he seems interested and he always mentions wanting to see me again and to let him know when i am free etc.. after i left his place the other night he told me to let him know when i got home safe.. the next day i kind of was hoping to hear from him but didn’t, the next couple days i was busy so didnt really think too much about speaking to him until today.. i wrote him a text just to see what he was up to, which he replied to, said he was good etc and then asked me what i was doing tonight.. after a couple texts back and forth he said for me to let him know if i wanted to catch up tonight etc……
    so im a little confused, he seems interested and always wants to see me but the last couple times we have spoken i have had to contact him first, even with a very simple texts he always replies with a happy, keen, interested kind of msg and then asks when are we catching up next etc… but im confused by the whole me initiating the contact thing, i know i shouldnt always be the first and i stick to that expect the last couple times i have had to just kind say hi with a text and then he replies with a call or text wanting to see me… should i say i cant see him tonight, that im busy or should i back off completely, or let the non contact go on for more then a few days next time until he initiates the contact?
    im just a little confused which is making it harder for me to see things clearly.
    i appreciate your time and love reading your emails and posts and admire and look up to you as such a strong and influential woman.. so thank you 🙂
    love paula



  374.  #374Rori Raye on May 20, 2013 at 12:10 pm

    Paula – Welcome – and you will get SO much help here. My first question – what were you doing at HIS house? Does he take you on DATES? Do NOT call him. What you’ve written sounds like “booty call” – if that’s not it, let us know! Love, Rori



  375.  #375Suzi on May 27, 2013 at 4:21 pm

    Well, here ‘s one for you… I have been in a great relationship. Things were fabulous until he lost his job. It happened that he had to move back in with his parents and feels so sorry for himself that all he does is lament. Now, I have had the same situation, but I take a more pragmatic approach and say on to the next phase. My butt was out the door every morning at sunrise networking and actively seeking employment until I had a job. He has been home for two months now and calls me and whines about how horrible it is being at home with his folks. instead of helping them and getting his butt moving, he just feels sorry for himself. I don’t want to kick him when he is down, but since he is not even trying to help himself, I really don’t even want to talk to him as I get disgusted listening to all the self pity. He was rich and spoiled and I have always worked hard for what I have.Some direction on dealing with this would be nice as we had been doing great…



  376.  #376Rori Raye on May 27, 2013 at 6:17 pm

    Suzi – clearly this man and you do NOT have similar values. Just keep doing what you’re doing for yourself – and you’ll inspire everyone, and draw in a man who wants to be inspired by you – not fight your example. Love, Rori



  377.  #377freya on June 1, 2013 at 9:59 am

    Hi Rori and all the girls are here! I need your advice- in a couple of weeks im going to visit one guy, with whom we are pretty close and there is a chance for more between us. He`s living now in another country and bought me a ticket for i could come to him. the issue is that he is gonna work all days except the weekends, and all these 2 weeks i will have to spend on my own in his house. We already been having sex and all was great among us, but im asking myself- should I cook and wait for him in the evening after work just in order to show how good caring girlfriend I might be or… ? Thank you in advance



  378.  #378Rori Raye on June 1, 2013 at 10:34 am

    freya – Welcome – and this is a possible opportunity to “play house.” Forget the “girlfriend thing. You have an amazing opportunity to explore his country – get out and about and DO and SEE stuff! I would absolutely have food in the fridge, prepared foods, too…feed YOURSELF, and let him SHARE what you make. Also – you can go out, find a great little restaurant, and ask him to meet you there for dinner – all kinds of options that will be exactly like real life, if you moved there and moved in with him (assuming that’s what you want). Try not to make it special or exotic or like a vacation – make it like real-life would be with you if he married you. Make it sexy, fun, easy-going, and just – regular. Sort of fun settled down. Love, Rori



  379.  #379freya on June 1, 2013 at 10:52 am

    Thank you Rori! Actually, I ve been expecting the reply like this- but, unfortunately, its not the sort of country where I could easily go out on a day time- its African one, and one of the poorest, and there is a scorching heat as you can guess. And he is out there only for work. What makes me more happy about my lonely days, is that he ordered for me almost a dump-truck of paints and brushes that i could paint (Im a designer in my usual life) from Monday to Friday. And, as I read from your articles… wont be considered in his mind my cooking and sharing as chasing him? Tons of hugs, Freya



  380.  #380Femininewoman on June 1, 2013 at 11:00 am

    Freya I have been in a similar situation in Asia. It got a bit cooler in the afternoon so I would go out though I was a little scared to go out on my own. I still did it. I admit that I did cook and do laundry then. But on the weekend he would clean the house from top to bottom and lay out a feast for me each day for dinner. He literally went overboard doing for me so I was okay doing stuff for him like preparing his clothes for work the next day.

    I do believe with all the paints though you can really be creative with art to occupy your time with one of your passions.



  381.  #381Jill on June 2, 2013 at 6:29 pm

    Hi Rori – I have a question. I’m a single forty-something woman. I own a condo that I rent out and I was getting ready for a new renter. I called a plumber recommended by my realtor. There seemed to be some chemistry between us. I sensed it on his side as well. I would like for him to call me but am not sure how to go about letting him know I’m interested. I think we are both a bit shy. Is it too controlling to call and thank him for the job he did? Or is that too corny? I would just like to generate an opportunity without chasing him.



  382.  #382Rori Raye on June 3, 2013 at 12:36 am

    Jill, plumbers and handymen are pretty used to women flirting with them, and I’d be surprised if he didn’t pick up on your interest. He could be married, he could have a girlfriend. If you can handle his reply, whatever it is – there’s no problem at all calling and thanking him and seeing if a conversation develops. Love, Rori



  383.  #383Maryam on June 10, 2013 at 4:31 am

    Hi Rori . I have a question.I found your article in my yahoo suddenly and i think i found some answers for my problem. English language isn’t my native language so if i have some mistakes i excuse about them.I have a very big problem in my life for last 3 years and i think you can help me.3 years ago i met a very good, handsome, educated, rich ,successful man who i always desired to see such a man in my life and he showed me he was very interested to me.We became friend with each other and our relationship was very warm and he showed me he loves me with his manner,last night that we met each other he was very good with me and our speaking reach to marriage and i said something about marriage and also i know that he had a bad experience with his ex fiance,and he said to me that i don’t want to marry at all because of my bad experience and after my bad experience with that girl i hate of women but you changed my feelings about yourself with your good manner and also i said about some of my experience in the past with different guys,that night we had a great night with each other and that night he said to me I’m Introverted person and i don’t speak about my Inner with nobody but you did a manner which i could say about my inner to you and I said to him you should say everything to me after this and he said there isn’t any “should”,it’s art of you that behave with me in such a manner which i can speak from my inner to you and he said i see you can do this,and when i wanted to went to home he said i cant leave you and kissed my hand when i wanted to leave him but after that night he became very cold with me,he didn’t call me tomorrow of that night and i was very sad and shocked why he did like this with me when he told that he had very good sense about me from when he saw me in first time and i think he loves me in that time, and i sent some text to him and he didn’t answer and after my insist he said i will call you and he didn’t call me, (these days i think in that time he scared about his feelings about me because that night he offered me to want to come to see my mother and he knows it means our relationship become closer) ,after several weeks a man called me and wanted to me to be friend with him and i think he was from him because he called me to my private phone number that no men didn’t have that number except him and also that guy called my name, (i think in that time he wanted to check me or something like this,because he knows that always there were so many men want to be with me and maybe he was scared of this about my manner about men),maybe if i could tolerate that time and didn’t call him again he called me by himself but i called him after 1 and half a month and he reply me with very good manner like our past relationship and showed me he was very happy about my call but didn’t call me again and after that i tried hard to attract him again and i did so many things for example i said about other men who like me and wanted to be with me,sometimes i showed my loves and all these things was with sending text to him,i said to him i love him and he didn’t answer me at all during 1 year after it i sent some text message to him 1 text for 2 months and he didn’t answer me at all,and finally i asked him why you’re doing like this with me and he said i don’t want to marry just i want to found someone for having sex,and i was very shocked about why he did like this to me,and i said i don’t want to have sex before my marriage because its not usual in my family,we are asian and in our culture and in my traditional family its not accepted,and i said all these things in my text and i said i wont text you again,and i really really loves him more than anyone else in my life,and after 1 month i saw him in internet and i think he was there because of me ( because he is always very busy in his work and didn’t have enough time to chatting in internet) , but he didn’t want to show it that he is there for me, he chatted with me there but because i was very angry about him i didn’t show good manner to him and also when he saw i was very angry he became angry and also i saw he was still jealous about me and he said to me if you loves me why you are here and chatting with another guy? and i said i didn’t chat with any guy just with my friends,and also i chatted with some guys during that year but I didn’t form any serious relationship,and i thought he was still loving me and then he didn’t show good manner to me and didn’t call me after this,and after 1 week my friend called him and said Maryam didn’t know about my calling but she has so many offer from another guys and i wanted to know what is your plan about your relationship and marriage and he said i don’t want to marry now and something like this,and then after several months i saw him again in internet but he didn’t answer me i just greeting with him,and then i didn’t call or text him again and after 9 months i saw a dream about him i was very sad and decided to contact with him and i sent a text to him and he answer my first text message very warm but he didn’t answer another text and i sent some text for example beautiful sentences to him 1 in every month but he didn’t answer and one day i said i wont send you any text message and then i said about my feelings and ask him about his feelings and he didn’t answer me and then i decided to didn’t sent any text message to him,and after 3 months i saw he become always online in internet and i know that he thought as the past he can saw me in internet but i saw him but i didn’t become online at all,because i know when he want to find me he knows he can find me in internet but i don’t want to continue like this,and i saw he was online for 3 months and didn’t see anything of me,and then after 7 months passes from my last text massages i sent just a text message to him for his birthday and just said i hope you are good and just want to say happy birthday,and he didn’t answer to me,but after 4 days an unknown person called me and want to convince me for friendship and i refused and then again another guy contact with me twice and want to be friend with me and again i refused and i think all of them was behalf of him to check me about my manner with another men,I don’t know why he did such a things maybe he want to have friendship in safe mode because i told him before so many guys always want to be with me or marry with me during my life,and also he always said to me you are very beautiful girl and another men always saying this to me and also they’re saying your shape of body is very good and also he said to me you are very kind girl(maybe he scared to loose me because in our last meeting he hold my hands in such a manner he scare to loose me with some manner which i think this or maybe he doesn’t have trust to me),even that guy who call to me said i know you are very kind,i think he said it to that guy,and also i refused it,and last months one person who i don’t know who was called me and didn’t say anything just heard my voice and he called to my private number in my room in our home and in a day who knows if i had boyfriend i will be with him in such a day i mean evening of a weakened. and these events is like that days in the past who i didn’t tolerate and called him but now I’m tolerate and didn’t contact with him after i sent text message to him,and during these 3 years i saw several guys but i didn’t like none of them,all of them was interested to me i don’t know maybe because of my beauty or my manner is some cold in first and then kind in continue but i didn’t continue with none of them,and i cried so many nights and days because i love him and i didn’t saw any other men like him,who was very kind to me and loved me and i love him very much,and these days i think there isn’t another way for me except patience and waiting and also some times i have some contact with another guys but they cant convince me with their manner like him,so many of them just want me for my appearance just for sex and i don’t want such a relationship,and its not accepted in our culture to have just sex. and I’m 30 years old now and he is 34.i hope you can help me what should i do and do you think he will return in future and come back to me?please help me and say everything that is needed for me,how i should do to reach to marriage with him? (and i want to say he is very busy in his work he is always in journey and also when we were friend with each other he said i busy myself with so many work after my relationship with my fiance broken and he said she didn’t love me at all just wanted me for my wealth and he said i see you aren’t like her although in future when i said to him in internet i love you why you are doing like this to me he said why you love me?because of my wealth?? i think this is his another problem although he knows and i said to him i didn’t want anything of you at all and he knows i have good family and i don’t have need anything maybe because of my manner to show my love he thought these things in that times). Rori please help me in my complicated problem,i am very far from you,its kind of you to answer and help me.



  384.  #384Rori Raye on June 11, 2013 at 11:48 am

    Maryam, Welcome – and this all comes down to experience. You clearly have none with men, and you are making assumptions and acting on bad information. Relationship proceeds on a track. You meet a man anywhere, in person, on the internet. You talk by phone. Then you meet. Then you “date” for months and months, with or without sex – for you – without. You talk by pone often, and/or text between dates, you feel good and secure that he likes you and is moving ahead. You do this with MANY men at the same time. Eventually, you’ll meet a man who is a right “fit” for you, and you will NEVER, EVER have to go through any of this confusion you now feel. We’ll help you learn here. Love, Rori



  385.  #385megan on June 13, 2013 at 8:29 am

    I am not sure if I am doing this right but I wanted to get some advice. Is this how I post or is there a different way? So I wanted to get some imput on how to tell my husband that it makes me feel sad when he makes plans and then changes them I maybe am even thinking a speech? Just a quick background we have a 4month old and a 3 year old and I feel like I am quite flexible, because honestly at this juncture in our lives you need to be. However, he will tell me that he wants to take me fishing on saturday and then he will change his mind that day and go golfing with his buddies (I was invited but I cannot take a 3month old golfing and no arrangments were made for a sitter) Then yesterday he said that he would stop by to take me to lunch at my work and then later that night he committed to his cousin to go out of town to help him out. So I asked him if lunch was off the table and he said that he would try to make it back by my lunchtime, but he did not make it in time. I get excited for some time with him and then he doesn’t follow through with his plans, weather it be intentional or unintentional. He does not give me very much time on an invite either and I am not sure if maybe I need to tell him no I have other plans? But for my situation this is a little silly because with 2 younger kids my other plans are not really plans, it is not like I get out much on my days off of work, I have been starting to go to the gym but that is about it. Which brings me to another issue, can I ask him to watch the kids when I do make plans or should I just start finding a sitter? By the way he is a stay at home dad for the time being. Which brings me to another issue….sometimes when I ask him if he wants to watch the kids while I go to the gym (2days in advance) and he tells me yes, then many times he will forget he had some sort of activity planned for that day and not tell me until like 2 hours prior to my planned leaving. Anyway some advice would be greatly appreciated. thank you



  386.  #386megan kowitz on June 13, 2013 at 9:06 am

    sorry one other question….can I use the statement “I feel insignificant and small when plans are changed? ” or does that make him wrong?



  387.  #387Rori Raye on June 14, 2013 at 1:43 pm

    Megan, I deleted your last name for your privacy. If this were me, I’d just start hiring sitters, or even better – get together with a bunch of other mothers for playdates, etc…and swap babysitting that way. It works great! He just seems young, a bit immature and undependable. I’d just not get all excited about plans he makes. And if a cancellation makes you angry – just say – you know, I don’t do so well with this spontaneous stuff, and I feel disappointed….AND – for the most part – I’d focus on this: SEX. Yep, get that going big time in the relationship, kids and all, and let everything else go by the wayside. I’m assuming none of his plans are suspect? It’s just guy stuff? Then let him have what he needs – just make sure you get what you need, and make that very simple and specific. That’s why, for me, time, affection, sex, company, emotional support – get very clear yourself on how you want that to look. Love Rori



  388.  #388sophie on June 15, 2013 at 8:10 am

    I listened and read your love scripts. You had a scenario on page 62 about the hot and cold guy. You discuss what not to do but you don’t offer suggestions on what to do to help things grow into something more connected. Could you guide me or offer suggestions? I tend to be cold when he gets distant because I don’t want to appear needy but I fear I’ve pushed him away. We’ve only dated about 3 months so it’s still new.



  389.  #389Rori Raye on June 15, 2013 at 8:54 am

    sophie, Thank you for the feedback – and I would be shocked if I didn’t make the entire Love Scripts program about what TO say in that situation – so I’m going to look through it myself…AND it’s all a Modern Siren thing – what Love Scripts is all about putting into words. It’s all in Feeling Messages and Poetry. “I feel so summer…” “I feel so good curled up on the couch here with you…” “I’m feeling emotional, and I’m going to take a walk….” It’s more important that you know how to reach down inside yourself to find what you’re REALLY FEELING – and then learn from the program how to put THAT into words and share with him – rather than to have ME give you words that you just “say.” AND my scripted words are a fantastic START for you to learn how to do this. You’ll get results right away, and that will encourage you to Script for yourself in the moment. Also – everyone here will help you specifically. Love, Rori



  390.  #390sophie on June 15, 2013 at 11:10 am

    What do I do when the man I’ve been dating just stopped calling/ texting/ asking me out? I went on a trip and haven’t heard from him in 10 days after dating steadily for 3 months. Do I just let him fade away and hope he contacts me? He seems only partially interested anyway so don’t want to chase him. I’m really hurt and don’t want it to be over.



  391.  #391Jill on June 15, 2013 at 11:18 am

    Hi Sophie – I’m so sorry. That is very hurtful. Does he definitely know you are back?



  392.  #392sophie on June 15, 2013 at 11:40 am

    yes he knows I’m back



  393.  #393Jill on June 15, 2013 at 6:36 pm

    I feel like you may need to let it go unfortunately…..By not contacting you he is telling you something and you are right it is very hurtful.



  394.  #394sophie on June 17, 2013 at 10:06 am

    I ran into him at a party yesterday. He claimed he didn’t know I was home. It was awkward for a moment but he stayed glued to my side and was very affectionate/ kissy/ touchy. He had to leave for a family dinner but he’s been texting frequently since and trying to make a date. It’s nice but it still doesn’t address that I haven’t heard from him. I’m still not getting my needs met. It’s only been a few months so maybe I’m just expecting too much too soon but I just don’t feel like we’ve grown any closer. It just seems like we are just dating casually. I tried to talk to him about it and he claims he doesn’t want to loose me but he still isn’t changing his behavior. I still only see him once a week. In 3 months we have not spent any time on a weekend together just doing day activities only after work night dinners. I don’t know what to do.



  395.  #395Sarah on June 17, 2013 at 11:46 am

    Hi Rori, I’m so thankful to you because I used Relationship Reconnect which helped me see that I was not in a real relationship at all and that the man I loved (and I truly did) couldn’t offer me what I needed. It hurt so much to lose that friendship and relationship because we did connect deeply on many levels. The problem was that because he refused to commit or connect emotionally, he basically just collected a new woman every time he started getting close as a way to distract himself. He truly was toxic and in the process of extracting myself from the situation, I found out about all of these other women he had in other towns! One of the women, who I would say was his “main” girlfriend, has been with him 14 years, even through much of his twenty year marriage (he is newly divorced and she was the mistress)…. Anyway she found out about me, she apparently had no clue he had other women in his life. Needless to say she flipped out and threatened to leave him. He totally “threw me under the bus”, told her I meant nothing to him and that he loved her and lied about the nature of my 2-year relationship with him. To my knowledge she has stayed with him and is “trying to trust him”. So this was bad enough for me.. I lost someone I cared for and had to deal with the hurt and the betrayal of how he denied ever caring for me. I know he cared for me but wasn’t courageous enough to tell the truth because he didnt want to lose her. So I just quietly removed myself totally from the situation and spent weeks mourning. That was about a month ago. I recently met a great guy who I am interested in dating. Randomly we discovered that his parents were good friends with my grandparents as well as a few other family connections. This man just separated from his wife 6 months ago so I don’t sense that he is available emotionally for a relationship now, but I love the things we have in common and just meeting for a drink, having someone to go to dinner with and talk to. In essence I would like to circular date with him in my circle! Here is the problem: suddenly new guy dropped way off in texting, etc and didnt follow through with plans to meet for a drink last week. i just leaned way back and waited to see if I heard from him and responded warmly when he did text me, but it was always short and sweet. I wanted so badly to ask him “what was up” or of something was wrong but I didn’t. It turns out that my ex found out that I was talking to and seeing the new guy. He called new guy and “warned” him about me, told him awful things about me that aren’t true. He then called me to rub it in that he got revenge on me for almost ruining his relationship with his other girlfriend. Then he proceeded to tell me that he still loved me, missed me, dreams about me, etc. I told him he is not my friend and not to call me because all that will do is inflame tensions with the other girlfriend and I don’t want drama. I asked him how he could want to ruin a new potential date for me … How hateful. There are several issues with this. My ex doesn’t want me, but doesn’t want anyone else to have me. He doesn’t take responsibility for his deceit and game playing which lead to him being exposed, but blames me, and felt justified to take revenge on me. But the new guy … Never told me he received this phone call or have me a chance to explain my side of it, he just backed off. I still don’t know what my ex said about me but it must have been bad in order to make new guy so skittish. I did approach new guy via text and said “I was informed my ex called you. I am so sorry because this had nothing to do with you and I feel embarrassed because I respect you and your family. I know he said awful things about me and they aren’t true. I’m sorry someone else involved you in old drama that I thought was over and done with” to which he replied that he always thought my ex was wierd and “off” and wa surprised to hear I had been with that guy. He also said he has a zero drama policy and is taking everything slow bcuz of his situation with not being divorced. Then said he would still like to have a drink with me again. I replied with a thanks for understanding and I would like to have a drink with him again sometime. It’s been almost a week and he never texted me back. Is this hopeless? I have resisted the urge to contact him again. Thanks for any thoughts. I’m livid and sad and incredulous all at once that my ex is so hateful as to blame me for his lies and then break my heart and then exact revenge by ruining another prospect for me. Most of all I’m upset because I could tell new guy really liked me and I really liked him. How should I respond here, if at all?



  396.  #396Sarah on June 17, 2013 at 1:14 pm

    Hi Rori, I’m so thankful to you because I used Relationship Reconnect which helped me see that I was not in a real relationship at all and the man I loved (I truly did) couldn’t offer me what I needed. It hurt so much to lose that friendship and relationship because we did connect deeply on many levels. The problem was because he refused to commit or connect emotionally, he basically just collected a new woman every time he started getting close as a way to distract himself. He was toxic and in the process of extracting myself from the situation, I found out about all of these other women he had in other towns! One of the women, who I would say was his “main” girlfriend, has been with him 14 yrs,even through much of his 20 yr marriage (he is newly divorced and she was the mistress)…. Anyway she found out about me, she apparently had no clue he had other women in his life. Needless to say she flipped out and threatened to leave him. He totally “threw me under the bus”, told her I meant nothing to him and lied about the nature of our 2-year relationship.To my knowledge she has stayed with him and is “trying to trust him”. So this was bad enough for me.. I lost someone I cared for and had to deal with the hurt and the betrayal of how he denied ever caring for me. I know he cared for me but wasn’t courageous enough to tell the truth because he didnt want to lose her. So I just quietly removed myself totally from the situation and spent weeks mourning. I recently met a great guy who I am interested in dating. we discovered that his parents were good friends with my grandparents as well as a few other family connections. This man just separated from his wife 6 months ago so I don’t sense that he is available emotionally for a relationship now, but I love the things we have in common and just meeting for a drink, having someone to go to dinner with and talk to. In essence I would like to circular date with him in my circle! Here is the problem: suddenly new guy dropped way off in texting, etc and didnt follow through with plans to meet for a drink last week. i just leaned way back and waited to see if I heard from him and responded warmly when he did text me, but it was always short and sweet. I wanted so badly to ask him “what was up” or if something was wrong but I didn’t. It turns out that my ex found out that I was talking to and seeing the new guy. He called new guy and “warned” him about me, told him awful things about me that aren’t true. He then called me to rub it in that he got revenge on me for almost ruining his relationship with his other girlfriend. Then he proceeded to tell me that he still loved me, missed me, dreams about me, etc. I told him he is not my friend and not to call me. i asked him how he could want to ruin a new potential date for me … How hateful.My ex doesn’t want me, but doesn’t want anyone else to have me. He doesn’t take responsibility for his deceit and game playing which lead to him being exposed, but blames me, and felt justified to take revenge on me. and the new guy … Never told me he received this phone call or gave me a chance to explain my side of it, he just backed off. I still don’t know what my ex said about me but it must have been bad in order to make new guy so skittish. I did approach new guy via text and said “I was informed my ex called you. I am so sorry because this had nothing to do with you and I feel embarrassed because I respect you and your family. I know he said awful things about me and they aren’t true. I’m sorry someone else involved you in old drama that I thought was over and done with” to which he replied that he always thought my ex was wierd and “off” and was surprised to hear I had been with that guy. He also said he has a zero drama policy and is taking everything slow bcuz of his situation with not being divorced. Then said he would still like to have a drink with me again. I was surprised because I figured he wanted nothing to do with me. I replied with a thanks for understanding and I would like to have a drink with him again sometime. It’s been almost a week and he never texted me back. Is this hopeless? I have resisted the urge to contact him again. Thanks for any thoughts. I’m livid and sad and incredulous all at once that my ex is so hateful as to blame me for his lies and then break my heart and then exact revenge by ruining another prospect for me. Most of all I’m upset because I could tell new guy really liked me and I really liked him. How should I respond here, if at all?



  397.  #397Sarah on June 17, 2013 at 1:15 pm

    Hi Rori, I’m so thankful to you because I used Relationship Reconnect which helped me see that I was not in a real relationship at all and the man I loved (I truly did) couldn’t offer me what I needed. It hurt so much to lose that friendship and relationship because we did connect deeply on many levels. The problem was because he refused to commit or connect emotionally, he basically just collected a new woman every time he started getting close as a way to distract himself. He was toxic and in the process of extracting myself from the situation, I found out about all of these other women he had in other towns! One of the women, who I would say was his “main” girlfriend, has been with him 14 yrs,even through much of his 20 yr marriage (he is newly divorced and she was the mistress)…. Anyway she found out about me, she apparently had no clue he had other women in his life. Needless to say she flipped out and threatened to leave him. He totally “threw me under the bus”, told her I meant nothing to him and lied about the nature of our 2-year relationship.To my knowledge she has stayed with him and is “trying to trust him”. So this was bad enough for me.. I lost someone I cared for and had to deal with the hurt and the betrayal of how he denied ever caring for me. I know he cared for me but wasn’t courageous enough to tell the truth because he didnt want to lose her. So I just quietly removed myself totally from the situation and spent weeks mourning. I recently met a great guy who I am interested in dating. we discovered that his parents were good friends with my grandparents as well as a few other family connections. This man just separated from his wife 6 months ago so I don’t sense that he is available emotionally for a relationship now, but I love the things we have in common and just meeting for a drink, having someone to go to dinner with and talk to. In essence I would like to circular date with him in my circle! Here is the problem: suddenly new guy dropped way off in texting, etc and didnt follow through with plans to meet for a drink last week. i just leaned way back and waited to see if I heard from him and responded warmly when he did text me, but it was always short and sweet. I wanted so badly to ask him “what was up” or if something was wrong but I didn’t. It turns out that my ex found out that I was talking to and seeing the new guy. He called new guy and “warned” him about me, told him awful things about me that aren’t true. He then called me to rub it in that he got revenge on me for almost ruining his relationship with his other girlfriend. Then he proceeded to tell me that he still loved me, missed me, dreams about me, etc. I told him he is not my friend and not to call me. i asked him how he could want to ruin a new potential date for me … How hateful.My ex doesn’t want me, but doesn’t want anyone else to have me. He doesn’t take responsibility for his deceit and game playing which lead to him being exposed, but blames me, and felt justified to take revenge on me. and the new guy … Never told me he received this phone call or gave me a chance to explain my side of it, he just backed off. I still don’t know what my ex said about me but it must have been bad in order to make new guy so skittish. I did approach new guy via text and said “I was informed my ex called you. I am so sorry because this had nothing to do with you and I feel embarrassed because I respect you and your family. I know he said awful things about me and they aren’t true. I’m sorry someone else involved you in old drama that I thought was over and done with” to which he replied that he always thought my ex was wierd and “off” and was surprised to hear I had been with that guy. He also said he has a zero drama policy and is taking everything slow bcuz of his situation with not being divorced. Then said he would still like to have a drink with me again. I was surprised because I figured he wanted nothing to do with me. I replied with a thanks for understanding and I would like to have a drink with him again sometime. It’s been almost a week and he never texted me back. Is this hopeless? I have resisted the urge to contact him again. Thanks for any thoughts. I’m livid and sad and incredulous all at once that my ex is so hateful and selfish. Most of all I’m upset because I could tell new guy really liked me and I really liked him. Do I wait to see if I hear from new guy? Or let it go?



  398.  #398Sarah on June 17, 2013 at 1:16 pm

    Hi Rori, I’m so thankful to you because I used Relationship Reconnect which helped me see that I was not in a real relationship at all and the man I loved (I truly did) couldn’t offer me what I needed. It hurt so much to lose that friendship and relationship because we did connect deeply on many levels. The problem was because he refused to commit or connect emotionally, he basically just collected a new woman every time he started getting close as a way to distract himself. He was toxic and in the process of extracting myself from the situation, I found out about all of these other women he had in other towns! One of the women, who I would say was his “main” girlfriend, has been with him 14 yrs,even through much of his 20 yr marriage (he is newly divorced and she was the mistress)…. Anyway she found out about me, she apparently had no clue he had other women in his life. Needless to say she flipped out and threatened to leave him. He totally “threw me under the bus”, told her I meant nothing to him and lied about the nature of our 2-year relationship.To my knowledge she has stayed with him and is “trying to trust him”. So this was bad enough for me.. I lost someone I cared for and had to deal with the hurt and the betrayal of how he denied ever caring for me. I know he cared for me but wasn’t courageous enough to tell the truth because he didnt want to lose her. So I just quietly removed myself totally from the situation and spent weeks mourning. I recently met a great guy who I am interested in dating. we discovered that his parents were good friends with my grandparents as well as a few other family connections. This man just separated from his wife 6 months ago so I don’t sense that he is available emotionally for a relationship now, but I love the things we have in common and just meeting for a drink, having someone to go to dinner with and talk to. In essence I would like to circular date with him in my circle! Here is the problem: suddenly new guy dropped way off in texting, etc and didnt follow through with plans to meet for a drink last week. i just leaned way back and waited to see if I heard from him and responded warmly when he did text me, but it was always short and sweet. I wanted so badly to ask him “what was up” or if something was wrong but I didn’t. It turns out that my ex found out that I was talking to and seeing the new guy. He called new guy and “warned” him about me, told him awful things about me that aren’t true. He then called me to rub it in that he got revenge on me for almost ruining his relationship with his other girlfriend. Then he proceeded to tell me that he still loved me, missed me, dreams about me, etc. I told him he is not my friend and not to call me. i asked him how he could want to ruin a new potential date for me … How hateful.My ex doesn’t want me, but doesn’t want anyone else to have me. He doesn’t take responsibility for his deceit and game playing which lead to him being exposed, but blames me, and felt justified to take revenge on me. and the new guy … Never told me he received this phone call or gave me a chance to explain my side of it, he just backed off. I still don’t know what my ex said about me but it must have been bad in order to make new guy so skittish. I did approach new guy via text and said “I was informed my ex called you. I am so sorry because this had nothing to do with you and I feel embarrassed because I respect you and your family. I know he said awful things about me and they aren’t true. I’m sorry someone else involved you in old drama that I thought was over and done with” to which he replied that he always thought my ex was wierd and “off” and was surprised to hear I had been with that guy. He also said he has a zero drama policy and is taking everything slow bcuz of his situation with not being divorced. Then said he would still like to have a drink with me again. I was surprised because I figured he wanted nothing to do with me. So I told him i would like to have a drink with him again sometime. It’s been almost a week and he never texted me back. Is this hopeless? I have resisted the urge to contact him again. Thanks for any thoughts. I’m livid and sad and incredulous all at once that my ex is so hateful and selfish. Most of all I’m upset because I could tell new guy really liked me and I really liked him. Do I wait to see if I hear from new guy? Or let it go?



  399.  #399Sarah on June 17, 2013 at 1:18 pm

    Hi Rori, I’m so thankful to you because I used Relationship Reconnect which helped me see that I was not in a real relationship at all and the man I loved (I truly did) couldn’t offer me what I needed. It hurt so much to lose that friendship and relationship because we did connect deeply on many levels. The problem was because he refused to commit or connect emotionally, he basically just collected a new woman every time he started getting close as a way to distract himself. He was toxic and in the process of extracting myself from the situation, I found out about all of these other women he had in other towns! One of the women, who I would say was his “main” girlfriend, has been with him 14 yrs,even through much of his 20 yr marriage (he is newly divorced and she was the mistress)…. Anyway she found out about me, she apparently had no clue he had other women in his life. Needless to say she flipped out and threatened to leave him. He totally “threw me under the bus”, told her I meant nothing to him and lied about the nature of our 2-year relationship.To my knowledge she has stayed with him and is “trying to trust him”. So this was bad enough for me.. I lost someone I cared for and had to deal with the hurt and the betrayal of how he denied ever caring for me. I know he cared for me but wasn’t courageous enough to tell the truth because he didnt want to lose her. So I just quietly removed myself totally from the situation and spent weeks mourning. I recently met a great guy who I am interested in dating. we discovered that his parents were good friends with my grandparents as well as a few other family connections. This man just separated from his wife 6 months ago so I don’t sense that he is available emotionally for a relationship now, but I love the things we have in common and just meeting for a drink, having someone to go to dinner with and talk to. In essence I would like to circular date with him in my circle! Here is the problem: suddenly new guy dropped way off in texting, etc and didnt follow through with plans to meet for a drink last week. i just leaned way back and waited to see if I heard from him and responded warmly when he did text me, but it was always short and sweet. I wanted so badly to ask him “what was up” or if something was wrong but I didn’t. It turns out that my ex found out that I was talking to and seeing the new guy. He called new guy and “warned” him about me, told him awful things about me that aren’t true. He then called me to rub it in that he got revenge on me for almost ruining his relationship with his other girlfriend. Then he proceeded to tell me that he still loved me, missed me, dreams about me, etc. I told him he is not my friend and not to call me. i asked him how he could want to ruin a new potential date for me … How hateful.My ex doesn’t want me, but doesn’t want anyone else to have me. He doesn’t take responsibility for his deceit and games which lead to him being exposed, but blames me, and felt justified to take revenge on me. and the new guy … Never told me he received this phone call or gave me a chance to explain my side of it, he just backed off. I still don’t know what my ex said about me but it must have been bad in order to make new guy so skittish. I did approach new guy via text and said “I was informed my ex called you. I am so sorry bcuz this had nothing to do with you and I feel embarrassed because I respect you and your family. I know he said awful things about me which aren’t true. I’m sorry someone else involved you in old drama that I thought was over and done with” to which he replied that he always thought my ex was “off” and was surprised to hear I had been with that guy. He said he has a zero drama policy and is taking everything slow due to his situation with not being divorced. Then said he would still like to have a drink with me again. I was surprised because I figured he wanted nothing to do with me. So I told him i would like to have a drink with him again sometime. It’s been almost a week and he never texted me back. Is this hopeless? I have resisted the urge to contact him again. Thanks for any thoughts. I’m livid and sad and incredulous all at once that my ex is so hateful and selfish. Most of all I’m upset because I could tell new guy really liked me and I really liked him. Do I wait to see if I hear from new guy? Or let it go?



  400.  #400Stephanie on June 18, 2013 at 3:10 pm

    Hi Rori,
    I have read in some of your literature that you should date many men at once until you are engaged or married. Does this still count if you have been with one man for over 3 years in a committed relationship (no engagement or marriage). I was wondering what you should say to a man when he asks if you are seeing anybody else or have a boyfriend if you are dating many men? Thank you!



  401.  #401Rori Raye on June 18, 2013 at 7:16 pm

    Stephanie – Welcome, and yours is one of the most asked questions. First – Circular Dating is not about dating – and you can do it (and should!) even if you’re married. Read about it in the ebook – there are so many articles here about “pieces” of CDing, to really know what it’s about and do it – start with the ebook and then go to Targeting Mr. Right – an entire program devoted to Circular Dating. Also – I imagine you want help from us about getting a commitment with this man? (Depending on your age…) that’s Commitment Blueprint, and we’ll help. Love, Rori