When You Feel Attacked – and You KNOW it’s YOUR Stuff…What to Do

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If you’ve ever if you’ve ever wondered why someone would attack you verbally or physically you’re asking the basic confusing question of why the world is the way it is..

A very wise man said (and though I’ve heard it many times before — this time when I heard it on Sunday afternoon,  it really hit me) “An attack is a cry for love.”

So if your man strikes out at you — then, yeah, you know somewhere deep inside himself he’s starved for love. And you know that it pretty much has nothing to do with you. It’s just that you were the one who triggered him.

And if we attack back, or close down, explain ourselves, explain things, defend ourselves — we miss the opportunity. We miss the opportunity to act with compassion and love in the moment, instead of responding with hurt and offensiveness and taking it all personally, and then either “letting him have it” later, or making excuses for his bad behavior.

And then what happens is – we can’t tell the difference between anger creeping out in an unpleasant way and actual abuse.

The reason we’re so confused is because our instincts are to do the exact same thing as the “attacker” is doing. Our instincts are to strike out at him — at any one — when we feel threatened, or frightened or offended, or disturbed. When we feel out of control we want to strike out and want to strike back. We want master the situation.

In other words — we’re crying out for love, too.

And… he can’t hear our cry for love either. He only feels his own lack of safety and needs to… strikeout, strike back, get his balance back. He wants to master the situation

So this is what fear does to us. This is what our traumatic histories have left us. In an endless place of feeling as though the rug is being pulled out from under us, and that love is like a fine mist that just dissipates and disappears and blows away.

If we can learn to hear with new ears, and find love and compassion BEFORE we react with fear and habit — what we get is peace and more love.

And in that peace and love…we find that our urge to DO SOMETHING fights with our urge to DO NOTHING!  It’s hard to sink into a do-nothing place because when something’s going bad around you – you want to fix it!  We ALL do!  We want to “answer back.”  We want to “straighten things out.” We want to MASTER the situation.

So – if you’re ever feeling “mowed over” by someone – try this:

Take this position: People really want to be loving – they just have learned ways to speak in a loud voice that is very different from the way you learned to speak – in a soft voice.

Script Yourself:

Feeling Messages are the key to this.  Start by saying….”put person here” – I hear you, and I feel triggered.  It feels like the way I used to feel when people in my life yelled at me.  I know you are not yelling at me, but it feels like that.  So – I know it’s MY stuff – and yet, I wonder if we’re meant to interact this way so we both learn something?  I feel I’m hearing a message, though I don’t know what to do with it.  I’ll just try to listen and see what’s going on for me….”

Then, see what the other person says…if it still feels to you like an attack – just repeat yourself.

You can also say “Are you okay?” if you’re worried about the other person…if you think he (or she) is attacking because he or she is feeling attacked…for sure he or she’s been mightily triggered.

And with a man who’s ALWAYS attacking, because he’s always feeling triggered…then you’ve got to make a decision. You can facilitate a lot of healing in a man by not rising to the bait and reacting as though you’ve been stung – and not ignoring it either and acting like everything’s okay. But sometimes you can’t be an agent of healing for someone. Sometimes you have to follow your own journey – and sometimes acknowledging that you no longer need to be constantly triggered like this to grow means you have to move on.

Once you acknowledge that you’ve been triggered, that you have feelings, and that it doesn’t feel good – and asked – what’s wrong? (And…if you really did do or say something disrespectful to him by forgetting the 4 Rules – then apologizing!) the energy around the whole experience changes.

Sometimes, owning whatever’s happened (your side of it) and apologizing is the most excruciating thing possible…it’s really scary – and it can be the most powerful thing you can do for your love relationship.

Try all these things as an experiment. See what happens. See how long you can keep your equilibrium under attack without responding in your usual way.  See if you can see the situation differently – and most of all – see if you can give up on mastering it.

Love, Rori

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256 Comments

  1.  #1Femininewoman on December 1, 2010 at 7:46 am

    Is the attacking synonymous with blame and criticism?



  2.  #2Femininewoman on December 1, 2010 at 7:49 am

    I tried to do nothing in a meeting a work an hour ago and ended up crying because I guess I was feeling helpless. I indicated to him that I was getting emotional before the tears started running and he said no need to I will be your defender. I felt strange and safe at the same time but I don’t like crying in front of people and have always been a fighter as a result.



  3.  #3Femininewoman on December 1, 2010 at 7:54 am

    Regarding apologizing, I sometimes feel like when someone else apologizes it put me in the position of an executioner. My friend tends to jump to apologizes for instance when I call and he doesn’t call back till a day later. The first thing is to apologize. I assume it is a legacy reaction from a prior relationship and am tempted to do something to get him to be aware of how I am experiencing the apologizes but have not had the courage to do so as yet.



  4.  #4Femininewoman on December 1, 2010 at 7:58 am

    In the place where the post suggests “are you okay” I have asked “are you angry” and was advised “that is the way I express myself” so I just left it and continued on with the conversation. I think he was angry because he must have felt I was teasing him.



  5.  #5Senior Lady Vibe on December 1, 2010 at 8:28 am

    I slipped off the top but I’m still in the game.

    SLV



  6.  #6Turtle Girl on December 1, 2010 at 9:23 am

    Thank you Rori for this post. It fits my situation to a “T” and I want to respond to this, and I apologize but it will be long.

    RR:
    If you’ve ever if you’ve ever wondered why someone would attack you verbally or physically you’re asking the basic confusing question of why the world is the way it is..
    A very wise man said (and though I’ve heard it many times before — this time when I heard it on Sunday afternoon, it really hit me) “An attack is a cry for love.”

    TG:
    Well, yes I am aware that this is exactly what is going on with cd man. He told me that he has never had a healthy relationship with a woman and that he always felt his mom never gave a damn for him and he even went to a therapist for this for a while. What I saw in him was that any man who recognizes this and is willing to do something like therapy to fix it has got some balls. Most men I have known will rebel at the idea. So I thought good on him for going. But they are costly and lifetime love loss is not fixed overnight.

    RR:
    So if your man strikes out at you — then, yeah, you know somewhere deep inside himself he’s starved for love. And you know that it pretty much has nothing to do with you. It’s just that you were the one who triggered him.

    TG: Yes again. He is starved for love. His wife cheated on him and he is still on that horse. The cheating female who doesn’t love him. That’s his trigger. Me wanting to date others (cd’ing) triggered that. It’s why is insisted vehemently that I be exclusive with him. (Very insecure). It was AFTER I agreed to be exclusive that he had his meltdown. Funny, maybe he felt “safe” to do it?

    RR:
    And if we attack back, or close down, explain ourselves, explain things, defend ourselves — we miss the opportunity. We miss the opportunity to act with compassion and love in the moment, instead of responding with hurt and offensiveness and taking it all personally, and then either “letting him have it” later, or making excuses for his bad behavior.

    TG: I did not attack back initially, I did try and explain (mistake)and of course he would have none of it. He just got louder and more aggressive, which finally when he was too much I couldn’t do it anymore. I slapped him to get him to back off. In retrospect I should have just said nothing, let him vent and asked him to leave. No explanation, nothing, just leave please as this is not acceptable.
    What is the difference in compassion and boundaries and making excuses for his bad behavior? By knowing and understanding his reason – is that making excuses as well? some of this has a very fine line to it.
    RR:
    And then what happens is – we can’t tell the difference between anger creeping out in an unpleasant way and actual abuse.

    TG: Exactly! He was very angry and I fell it was abusive, so he can need love and be abusive at the same time.

    RR:
    The reason we’re so confused is because our instincts are to do the exact same thing as the “attacker” is doing. Our instincts are to strike out at him — at any one — when we feel threatened, or frightened or offended, or disturbed. When we feel out of control we want to strike out and want to strike back. We want master the situation.

    In other words — we’re crying out for love, too.

    And… he can’t hear our cry for love either. He only feels his own lack of safety and needs to… strikeout, strike back, get his balance back. He wants to master the situation

    TG: Yes of course I wanted to “master” the situation. What I wanted was for him to stop putting me down, yelling, accusing me of things that I did not do and general stop being an ass. Does anyone enjoy this kind of behavior from others? I think not. :o)

    RR:
    So this is what fear does to us. This is what our traumatic histories have left us. In an endless place of feeling as though the rug is being pulled out from under us, and that love is like a fine mist that just dissipates and disappears and blows away.

    If we can learn to hear with new ears, and find love and compassion BEFORE we react with fear and habit — what we get is peace and more love.

    TG: I agree. This is what I have been doing and learning and I have made tremendous strides in this area. I just got pushed up at the wall and it was too much and I snapped. When people push and push and push after a while you really don’t care if it is a cry for love on his part. I have boundaries, as Mercedes so aptly put it. And one of those is you are not going to abuse me verbally that way.

    RR:
    And in that peace and love…we find that our urge to DO SOMETHING fights with our urge to DO NOTHING! It’s hard to sink into a do-nothing place because when something’s going bad around you – you want to fix it! We ALL do! We want to “answer back.” We want to “straighten things out.” We want to MASTER the situation.

    So – if you’re ever feeling “mowed over” by someone – try this:

    Take this position: People really want to be loving – they just have learned ways to speak in a loud voice that is very different from the way you learned to speak – in a soft voice.

    Script Yourself:

    Feeling Messages are the key to this. Start by saying….”put person here” – I hear you, and I feel triggered. It feels like the way I used to feel when people in my life yelled at me. I know you are not yelling at me, but it feels like that. So – I know it’s MY stuff – and yet, I wonder if we’re meant to interact this way so we both learn something? I feel I’m hearing a message, though I don’t know what to do with it. I’ll just try to listen and see what’s going on for me….”

    Then, see what the other person says…if it still feels to you like an attack – just repeat yourself.

    You can also say “Are you okay?” if you’re worried about the other person…if you think he (or she) is attacking because he or she is feeling attacked…for sure he or she’s been mightily triggered.

    TG: Interestingly enough you described the whole script I went through with him. I tried feelings message big time. I tried Are you ok? I tried every RR recommendation in dealing with him. But his insecurity remained and he still is angry.

    RR:
    And with a man who’s ALWAYS attacking, because he’s always feeling triggered…then you’ve got to make a decision. You can facilitate a lot of healing in a man by not rising to the bait and reacting as though you’ve been stung – and not ignoring it either and acting like everything’s okay. But sometimes you can’t be an agent of healing for someone. Sometimes you have to follow your own journey – and sometimes acknowledging that you no longer need to be constantly triggered like this to grow means you have to move on.

    Once you acknowledge that you’ve been triggered, that you have feelings, and that it doesn’t feel good – and asked – what’s wrong? (And…if you really did do or say something disrespectful to him by forgetting the 4 Rules – then apologizing!) the energy around the whole experience changes.

    TG: I never said anything disrespectful to him. I don’t know what the four rules are. Can someone clue me in? I did slap him. Yes. He was screaming at me. Oddly enough I feel he deserved it. I haven’t been that “triggered” to slap someone since I slapped my own daughter many many years ago. What was she doing at the time? Screaming at me and in my face and would not let up. I asked her calmly to stop more than once and she would not – so boom. Today she says she deserved it. We laugh about it.

    RR:
    Sometimes, owning whatever’s happened (your side of it) and apologizing is the most excruciating thing possible…it’s really scary – and it can be the most powerful thing you can do for your love relationship.

    TG:So should I apologize for slapping him? I don’t want to. I am not sorry I did. He deserved it He was being a complete ass.

    RR:
    Try all these things as an experiment. See what happens. See how long you can keep your equilibrium under attack without responding in your usual way. See if you can see the situation differently – and most of all – see if you can give up on mastering it.

    TG: Rori-As I said I have made enormous strides since I found this site and you. I went for a long time with him without being reactive without attacking back, without acting out. I used feeling messages, I did what the sirens recommended. I changed. And yest, with him, it really did no good. He apparently likes carrying his bag of resentments around. I get it. I have done the same thing. But not with him.

    In fact the man I dated that I called “toxic man” over a year ago refused to see me because I was the angry one. I was the one who stuffed my feelings and then blew on him. Once only. And yet he chopped me off at the knees immediately. He had zero skills to deal with my anger. I feel the situation is now reversed. I found this site, I have grown a lot in the last year and now I am the one who does not want to be around a man who dumps his vomit on me. I see both sides so clearly. What an incredible lesson this has been.

    In this case, I feel I tried everything and he is just not ready to change or grow and see what is happening, or maybe he sees it but can not will not or does does not know how to change and “fix” his own trigger. You have said-we can not be therapist to a man and I don’t want to any more. I used do but the idea of that now is boring and frustrating to me!
    I want a calm man. A man who can discuss like an adult. Rori-you have said that these issues, our triggers, etc can change on a dime. You are absolutely right. When I saw my own behavior I internalized it immediately, and made a “Psychic shift” so to speak and it simply stopped being a problem almost overnight for me.

    I did not need to go to a therapist and drag myself through the mud and constantly focus on what I was doing wrong. I just stopped it. I jumped tracks in my brain and got on a different road with my horse.
    It is hard to explain but I know this is possible.

    God knows I am not healed 100%. I am sure that I have other things that will come up. But what a difference from how it used to be. I am not even interested in explaining myself to death like I used to. I am hoping I can catch that in the future and stop it in its tracks too.

    This is horribly long and I apologize. But this article was so important in my life. I hope my words have helped others here with whatever they have going on with their men.

    Much love and hugs for all the sirens here. Thank you for your patience and help and thank you Rori for all that you do.

    Turtle Girl xxoo



  7.  #7Daria on December 1, 2010 at 10:08 am

    This is what I’m Gona do…

    “hey!!! I don’t like being talked to that way. I feel super bad. And I love you and don’t want to fight with you. So I’m gona go to my room till I feel better.”

    Then leave.

    Yay!



  8.  #8Daria on December 1, 2010 at 10:11 am

    I feel sad when goddesses apologize for the length of their posts 🙁 .

    I want them to know their words are blessings.

    And now cones to mind that I want to feel the same about me.



  9.  #9Turtle Girl on December 1, 2010 at 10:14 am

    OK Daria-

    I am not sorry for the length of my post. I take it back.:o)

    This is probably something from long ago. Maybe something like when we are not heard by others, or get our needs met, then we feel the need to apologize for our words. Interesting point. xxoo



  10.  #10tinque on December 1, 2010 at 10:16 am

    TurtleGirl – This man may very well be “unhealable”, and as you know it’s not up to you to to do this for him, but may I suggest another way you might have tried before thing escalated to the point where you lashed back at him, slapped him.

    “let him vent and asked him to leave.”

    Try next time whether it’s with him or someone else though hopefully this will not happen again. Listen for as long as you can. Ask if he’s okay as you did. If the tirade continues, you can say, “This just doesn’t feel good. I feel scared, threatened, or whatever it is you feel,” and then you leave the room. Go out if you want, for a walk or to do something to soothe you. Or just go lay on your bed and meditate, or run a bath, anything to calm you.

    If he follows you (some men will, most won’t) you can add, “I don’t want to be around anger. It feels awful. I don’t want to be triggered in this way.”
    xxoo



  11.  #11Daria on December 1, 2010 at 10:21 am

    Turtle girl – yes slapping someone is disrespectful. For any reason. It’s also abusive.

    Knowing ” the reason” someone is behaving a certain way is not necessary. It’s just a guess. It’s enough to know it’s a cry for help… And Not take it personally.

    The important thing to do is Not tolerate the behavior. Once you have tried the above scripts (if appropriate)

    And the way of being talked to doesn’t stop.

    Then we lovingly leave. ( I’m babystepping on the lovingly part)

    That looks like. I don’t like being talked to this way. I feel very upset and angry. I want to hear you and i cant do it well when I feel attacked. And I don’t want to tolerate this so I am leaving.

    This is best done RIGHT AWAY… Without trying to explain or engage first… ( other than the rori scripts if applicable.. Sometimes just skip straight to the leaving)



  12.  #12Mercedes on December 1, 2010 at 10:24 am

    On a break…just subscribing…Loved the post

    Much Love,
    Mercedes



  13.  #13Daria on December 1, 2010 at 10:28 am

    I find that when I listen as long as I can I feel worse after. I am experimenting with speaking up in the above way as soon ad I feel attacked.

    I want to heal and train myself to immediately move away from any attacks- I can imagine this will heal the mam as well.



  14.  #14Turtle Girl on December 1, 2010 at 10:33 am

    Tinque-
    Great response. Thank you for this.

    The thing is I did tell him I felt scared. I did tell him it doesn’t feel good. But I just stood there while he continued the tirade. I did not leave. We were in my house. Had I been at his house I could have easily walked out the door. Being on my own turf made it more difficult. when someone is in that much anger they can not even see what it does to the other person. They are in pain in the moment and the other person feelings are of no consequence. this of course if the damage that gets done, the fallout, the
    “unintended consequences” of that that of rage.

    And I am calling it rage, because that’s what it really is. He is raging at “mother” and at “woman” for not loving him, for not being loyal to him. For “cheating” on him either by word or by deed.

    But I still could have handled this better. I know this. I am seeing my mistakes and problems faster and faster now. The men are great practice, great free therapy as RR says. And the sirens are invaluable to me one and all. Heartfelt gratitude truly.



  15.  #15Turtle Girl on December 1, 2010 at 10:38 am

    Yes Daria- yes indeed. The longer I stood there and listened to his s*it and vomit, the worse I felt and the less I was able to be calm. Dragging it out just makes it horrible and then it’s like trying to clean up the mess after a hurricane has been through. there is so much destruction in the wake, you don’t even know where to start and what you do is NOT even bother to clean it up piece by piece. You just get a truck in there and take it all to the dump or you have a bulldozer come it and build a new house. i.e start over with a new man.

    But-damn it all! I get tired of starting over all the time. So I am determined to learn these skills and deal with any and all “issues” in a calm, constructive peaceful loving way. That is my goal and intent.



  16.  #16Jas on December 1, 2010 at 10:44 am

    This post is interesting. While I agree with most of what Rori is saying, one thing that I found does not work is asking someone “Are you ok?” In the past I’ve found that most people react negatively to this, almost as if you’re accusing them of something. When I’ve asked “Are you ok?” to someone in the middle of them acting angry or annoyed or whatever, they usually have verbally attacked me. I find if I share MY feelings first (without asking them to share theirs first) they may be a bit more open and feel safer about sharing their feelings. Anyways, that’s just been my experience



  17.  #17Turtle Girl on December 1, 2010 at 10:45 am

    Yes slapping someone is disrespectful. Duh. I am not approving or dismissing my behavior as ok by any means. But what if HE thinks he deserved it? Ok one could argue that it is not ok under any circumstances.
    But sometimes that kind of thing is the only thing that can “get through” to a person so to speak. There are some people who are incredible pushy and aggressive. They have to “win”. they have to wipe out their “enemy”. They can not see any other way to behave. They make great war mongers I suppose. I don’t know. I find their energy to be exhausting. What is the point to all that fuss and muss of arguing and yelling and winning and making war. No one wins a freaking war. There are only casualties and death.

    My daughter today says that when i slapped her, she was being a total disrespectful little b*tch. And she says she deserved my slap. And she WAS being horrible. Really horrible.

    I have mixed feelings about this. Confused.



  18.  #18Turtle Girl on December 1, 2010 at 10:46 am

    Jas-

    I have had the same experience when I ask are you ok.

    Answer: “Of course I’m not ok, &&***%%%!!! If I was ok I would not be upset!!!”

    This just pisses them off more. Yeah.



  19.  #19Simply Shannon on December 1, 2010 at 10:56 am

    Having been in a relationship where the man did follow me after I walked away, it feels awful. And I did hit him once. Like a cat stuck in a corner, I struck out. Make it stop, make it stop. Wow. There’s my little girl stuck in the back seat listening to her parents fight in the front seat. Stop, stop, stop. Yes, I would like this healed now. I feel scared and sad. Yikes. Didn’t expect that just now.

    Daria, I loved what you wrote. Copying it for future use…

    I don’t like being talked to this way. I feel very upset and angry. I want to hear you and i cant do it well when I feel attacked. And I don’t want to tolerate this so I am leaving/going in the other room.



  20.  #20Daria on December 1, 2010 at 11:01 am

    Turtle girl and Jas…

    I think it might work “are you ok?”

    In certain circumstances. Probably not in the middle of a tirade.

    But say when an unexpected snide remark comes out of nowhere… Then LOVINGLY. asking hey, are you ok?

    Might open space for them to talk about what’s really upsetting them.

    Men use it with upset women all the time.

    …,

    Slapping – is taking mastery of situation.

    A person might ‘think they deserve to be slapped. They do not. No one deserves to be slapped or attacked.

    Not from the viewpoint that an attack is a cry for help.

    That’s like. ‘ help! ‘… Smackaw!

    Instead we can actually help BY MODELING HEALTHY BEHAVIOR . Which would be leaving lovingly without tolerating attack.

    But it happens the mentality of attack attackers and deserving attacks is something we learned…

    It can make is feel powerful in the moment to parallel or overcome our attackers. But it’s making them the enemy.
    It’s not making them loved ones. It’s putting u’s up and them down.

    My guess is what your daughter really means is that she doesn’t like the way she behaved and she is apologizing.



  21.  #21Daria on December 1, 2010 at 11:05 am

    Doormat – tolerating, explaining

    A step UP is BIT’CH – slapping, attacking

    A step up is Healthy – lovingly opening for connection ” are you ok or rori speech”. And if not, lovingly disengaging moving away from situation.



  22.  #22Daria on December 1, 2010 at 11:08 am

    Baby I hear you, and I feel triggered.. It’s reminding me of being yelled at when I was young… And I’m not saying you’re yelling at me, that’s just my thing that’s coming up for me… And I think there’s a message to learn from communicating this way… I don’t know what yet, but I’m Gina jeep listening to find out if it gets clear

    Practicing



  23.  #23Daria on December 1, 2010 at 11:10 am

    And I wonder if were meant to interact this way right now to learn something… It feels like there’s a message not sure what yet… But I’m Gina keep listening to see what it could be for me



  24.  #24Lucy on December 1, 2010 at 11:13 am

    Hmm. My first impression is that it is always disrespectful and “wrong” to slap someone…. however, I have read on here Sirens saying that in some cases, it is okay to kill someone… so maybe slapping is sometimes okay??? I don’t know, the thought just came to mind…. Similar to the whole idea that you might actually be doing a woman a favor by sleeping with her husband (not my belief, but that of others on here)… so maybe slapping can be doing someone a favor too. Actually, now I am remembering something Eckhart Tolle wrote about this type of act sometimes being an act of love for the other person — bascially knocking sense into them so that they can make different choices in the future that are better for themselves…. Tolle called it love.



  25.  #25Senior Lady Vibe on December 1, 2010 at 11:14 am

    @TG

    Your post was long but not too long; it addressed Rori’s post in light of your own experience.

    I thought about it and learned. I used my imagination to put myself in your spot.

    It’s just my imagination…

    There’s a thing I would feel…a sense of unfairness… when I had a meltdown in the past with a man I loved, he rejected me. On the spot. It was over! I did NOT get a second chance.

    Yet…here’s this guy who has had several “second chances” and now here he is pacing around outside like a lion, a shameful with his head down lion, looking inside to see if his lioness (super huntress) will let him back in.

    Damn! That’s not fair!

    I want a “calm man.” But, I am not calm. And I am annoyed because all things considered, the “shameful lion” pacing around outside is “calmer” than I am. Damn! When I slapped him, he didn’t slap me back! He could have, he did not.

    It was my house and damn! I have a right to defend myself in my own home! I was consumed with RAGE.

    How dare he???? Talk to me like that?? In my own home!!! He’s already had WAY MORE second chances than I EVER got!!!! Motor trucker!! Pow!

    I was not calm, I was enraged, it was so unfair.
    He had all those second chances.
    I did not walk to my front door, step outside and hold the door open with my body until he left.

    But I will be calmer for the next guy. The sneaky little glitches are: this current guy, the one pacing outside is in love with me [“WTF?”] , no doubt about it. He still has an anger problem and…

    My anger problem is greater than his: I am still enraged at the unfairness and I do not want to apologize even though in my rage I crossed the line and went physical.

    I am still carrying the rage.

    I will start over with the next guy and the same thing will happen only with someone who is perhaps less attracted to me. So no need for second chances, we’ll blow up, he’ll leave [dust off my hands] that’s it.

    But I will have learned to be calmer, maybe, and there will be no history of our rages, no unfair second, third, fourth chances.

    It will be fairer…

    Will it matter?

    I’m still imagining and I don’t have an answer.

    The End.

    SLV



  26.  #26Turtle Girl on December 1, 2010 at 11:22 am

    Whew! SLV-

    Ok There is so much here I can’t even begin to respond. Are you talking about me or you? Or both? Hmmmmmm……..I need to read and re- read this. I’ll be back. Thanks for your post. there is some really good stuff in there and some really brilliant ladies on this blog. xxoo



  27.  #27Senior Lady Vibe on December 1, 2010 at 11:22 am

    @18: Turtle Girl says:

    “…Answer: “Of course I’m not ok, &&***%%%!!! If I was ok I would not be upset!!!”
    This just pisses them off more. Yeah….”

    Yeah, I’d REALLY be MORE annoyed, pissed off. My inference is that since I’m annoyed my “OK-ness” is being called into question.

    Then, I would feel like slapping but I’d instead leave after venting some choice names and that would be the end of any negotiation to reconcile the problem. The other person has in this case negated that “there is a problem” by asking a dumb ass question.

    SLV



  28.  #28Brenda on December 1, 2010 at 11:24 am

    I haven’t posted in a long time, probably 8 months, but I came on here to get support around doing NOTHING. i’ve been involved with someone i work with in the music business long distance for over a year. i wish i had never started the relationship, it’s been very painful to be apart and my personal life was falling apart when we got involved, i made bad decisions about getting involved back then and now i’m in love and so is he. he worries about me because i used to have a drinking problem and is very controlling because i cheated on him in March when i was still drinking.

    anyway, that is all water under the bridge now but he tells me he loves me every time we talk…but, he’s ignoring my emails and calls and only contacts me to talk about business now, but says he loves me every time. i told him i was going to Boston to work for the winter (I need money DESPERATELY) and he flipped out, blocked me on Facebook and won’t email or talk to me.

    in 3 weeks…i’m going to live with my mother for a while in Yuma, AZ as my step-dad passed away right before Thanksgiving. i’m going to use this time to focus on ME, try to make some money (i haven’t worked in almost 5 years) and keep working on my music. i could use some support in not contacting him.

    BTW, i just watched “Commitment Blueprint”

    brenda



  29.  #29Leo on December 1, 2010 at 11:26 am

    Hi Girls!

    I experienced just the same with the sentence “Are you okay?” Then they just don’t know what they feel, they are confused and feel lost. Thats why they burst out again.
    At some point, when someone asked me that question I felt weird cause they really deep down had noticed me and that I am not okay. And I felt insecure, i felt like an open book, so thats why I attacked back.

    I like what Daria said and I will try to use it, also what Simply Shannon just wrote.
    If someone comes up with another possibility to phrase it…please let me know.
    The things Rori wrote are just hard to translate into my own language, so I look for different version that i can use.

    And for I don’t want to make mistakes with this I (for now) don’t want to come up with stuff of my own. Want to do that when I feel more confident about that tool.



  30.  #30Turtle Girl on December 1, 2010 at 11:28 am

    Daria-

    Good points: doormat, b*tch, goddess.
    However, life is not linear like this.

    I am mostly no longer doormat, however I did do some explaining and therefore not goddessy. I did defend myself (slap) so yeah – definitely b*tch. Not going to take his abuse lying down and letting him just walk all over me.

    AND I also was loving-many times. Very RR like. Very siren like. But he CONTINUED HIS RANT. So, my mistake was not walking away and refusing to participate in his drama.

    So all three parts in me still. Less dormat more loving, and still a bi*ch. Your thoughts?



  31.  #31Senior Lady Vibe on December 1, 2010 at 11:30 am

    @28 Brenda

    I was a little confused for a few seconds because there’s another “Brenda” who posts here regularly.

    I always recommend the following Rori post. It has helped me a lot.

    “Don’t Let Go, Don’t Resolve, Forget Closure and Stay On Your Horse”

    https://blog.havetherelationshipyouwant.com/marriage/dont-let-go-dont-resolve-forget-closure-and-stay-on-your-horse/#comments

    SLV



  32.  #32Lucy on December 1, 2010 at 11:34 am

    This article is, to me, the BEST BEST BEST Rori has ever written! I am going to print it out and give copies to people for Christmas! 🙂 Several parts of this article are exact quotes from an email Rori sent me personally when I asked for help. Thank you, Rori!

    One of the new parts is exactly what I recently figured out on my own and started applying here on the blog, although I didn’t know how to express it until now:

    “And with a man who’s ALWAYS attacking, because he’s always feeling triggered…then you’ve got to make a decision. You can facilitate a lot of healing in a man by not rising to the bait and reacting as though you’ve been stung – and not ignoring it either and acting like everything’s okay. But sometimes you can’t be an agent of healing for someone. Sometimes you have to follow your own journey – and sometimes acknowledging that you no longer need to be constantly triggered like this to grow means you have to move on.”

    I reached a point where I realized I “no longer need to be constantly triggered like this to grow” — when it’s the case that the person is “always attacking, because [s]he’s always feeling triggered” — her stuff, not mine — and I can follow my own journey and move on. Sometimes that means taking a break from Siren Island so I don’t slap someone who is relentlessly in my face.

    Sometimes when a person is lashing out and won’t stop, we really DON’T need to endure it for our growth — in fact, we can grow better away from it. Especially when we have done a lot of work already with working through triggers. It feels kind of like graduating to a new level of personal growth.

    Many many thanks, Rori.

    <3
    Lucy



  33.  #33Senior Lady Vibe on December 1, 2010 at 11:39 am

    @TG

    “Are you talking about me or you? Or both? ”

    Both. This is what I see in your story, gathered from several posts over a period of time. This interpretation may or may not be true; it’s my imagination so I hope you don’t mind that I have used your story as a jumping off place for exploring my own feelings.

    Maybe it resonates with you, maybe it doesn’t.

    And I posted how *I* would feel about this (mostly imaginary) story. I don’t have a resolved ending… Like many things I’ve started to think about after reading posts on this blog…I’m..still…thinking about it.

    (please don’t slap me… :D)

    SLV



  34.  #34Brenda on December 1, 2010 at 11:45 am

    @ Lady Vibe ~ THANK YOU. The part that really helped was if I’m still seeing him around in life, and he is one of my main music partners…I don’t know yet what I want to do but I do know I want to do NOTHING. i don’t want to think about him…and i want to go gentle and easy on myself as I transition into the next phase of taking care of myself. And love myself even though I had to go through some terrible hard times…like I’m the first singer to ever do that! lol

    I do know that I just wrote a song worthy of a Grammy (we are both public figures and very well known in our genres). I have an amazing female production partner that I’m getting ready to have a release with and I am just focusing on that. In about 7 months I will start to make money off my music…I will survive and write more great music until then – and that’s worst case scenario! 🙂

    brenda 🙂



  35.  #35Senior Lady Vibe on December 1, 2010 at 11:48 am

    @Brenda

    “…I will survive and write more great music until then – and that’s worst case scenario! ..”

    I sounds good to me! 😀

    SLV



  36.  #36Senior Lady Vibe on December 1, 2010 at 11:49 am

    Gee, I wasn’t fast enough, Brenda.

    “It sounds good to me!” 😀

    SLV
    resident typo queen



  37.  #37Daria on December 1, 2010 at 11:50 am

    Turtle girl – def not linear 🙂

    The ‘Step up’ is in terms of how we feel about ourselves doing the behavior

    Doormat terrible

    Birch powerful but disconnected

    Healthy. Powerful and loving



  38.  #38Brenda on December 1, 2010 at 11:57 am

    New handle ~ brenda = Soul Sista



  39.  #39Turtle Girl on December 1, 2010 at 11:58 am

    Daria-

    Agreed. B*tch – powerful but not loving.
    My point is that as imperfect women on this blog, we are all of these things to varying degrees on one time or another.

    Obviously the goal is to be as powerful and loving as often as possible. :o) That is certainly my personal preference.



  40.  #40Turtle Girl on December 1, 2010 at 12:06 pm

    Lucy-uh yeah!!!!!

    OK SLV: Here’s my response to your post—–it’s meaty and long and no apologies for it….lol

    SLV:
    There’s a thing I would feel…a sense of unfairness… when I had a meltdown in the past with a man I loved, he rejected me. On the spot. It was over! I did NOT get a second chance.
    TG:
    Hmm. Yes I would have to say I do feel/felt this way. Although this happened after I had tried to break up with him (toxic man). He was not meeting my needs. I had decided to give it another try and then a month later when I got pissed-then he ended it. He did not want to be the rejected one so he rejected me. Ugh. Silly little games we play.
    SLV:
    Yet…here’s this guy who has had several “second chances” and now here he is pacing around outside like a lion, a shameful with his head down lion, looking inside to see if his lioness (super huntress) will let him back in.

    Damn! That’s not fair!

    I want a “calm man.” But, I am not calm. And I am annoyed because all things considered, the “shameful lion” pacing around outside is “calmer” than I am. Damn! When I slapped him, he didn’t slap me back! He could have, he did not.

    TG: Yes, indeed. I have given him several second chances, something toxic man did not do. Unfair.
    Well of course I want a calm man! I do not want a man who is angry all the times and pushes and pushes and pushes me into corner. Defending oneself, however and in whatever way is very exhausting. So is explaining oneself . We want to be with men who get us. Who get along with us and don’t trigger our sh*t all the time. Someone, dare I say compatible? Is this too much to ask? No. I am calm most of the time and I want a calm mate. No he did not slap me back. But that did not make him calm he was raging the whole time. He was by no means calm.
    SLV:
    It was my house and damn! I have a right to defend myself in my own home! I was consumed with RAGE.

    How dare he???? Talk to me like that?? In my own home!!! He’s already had WAY MORE second chances than I EVER got!!!! Motor trucker!! Pow!

    I was not calm, I was enraged, it was so unfair.
    He had all those second chances.
    I did not walk to my front door, step outside and hold the door open with my body until he left.

    TG: sigh sigh sigh. Of course I was angry. He was an ass and I got pissed off. But it took a long time. I was calm for a very long time. I just wanted it to stop and I felt cornered. I felt trapped like an animal in a cage. No way out. Just like when I was a girl and my parents were screaming. No power to stop it. I GET THE TRIGGER– I GET THIS – ALL OF THIS.:0)

    SLV:
    But I will be calmer for the next guy. The sneaky little glitches are: this current guy, the one pacing outside is in love with me [“WTF?”] , no doubt about it. He still has an anger problem and…

    My anger problem is greater than his: I am still enraged at the unfairness and I do not want to apologize even though in my rage I crossed the line and went physical.

    Tg: No, in my defense I do not think at all that my anger is greater than his. I do not still talk about old exs who cheat. I do not still keep stuff inside and blow. This one was in re-action to a trigger. And I am learning learning learning. I never rage like this at anyone. I have no problem apologizing to him or anyone. Ihave apologized to my daughter many times and to other people as well. I have no issue being wrong. I don’t WANT to but I would do it without an issue. It’s just that I am not sure I want to open the communication door by doing so. And risk the future rages. I am done being the victim of someone’s unbridled rage, regardless of the reason. Done. Not mad, just done with it. Almost bored with it as RR says. Not willing to go back there. Belch.
    SLV:
    I am still carrying the rage.

    TG: Still have the rage? No. Still a bit confused. Not knowing HOW to handle it, if at all. Still mad at him. Maybe a little, but I am not sure I even want a relationship with HIM at all of any kind. I do not feel safe that he won’t rage at me again. As Tinque said-he may not be heal-able, at least not with me. He will want to bulldoze me again and again I fear. I don’t want that in a man and am ready to have that healed and have a calm man. I truly am. RR say we want the relationship, not the man. I totally get this. Rori also said in this post —

    “and sometimes acknowledging that you no longer need to be constantly triggered like this to grow means you have to move on.’

    Yes I see that I no longer want to be triggered like this!

    SLV:
    I will start over with the next guy and the same thing will happen only with someone who is perhaps less attracted to me. So no need for second chances, we’ll blow up, he’ll leave [dust off my hands] that’s it.

    But I will have learned to be calmer, maybe, and there will be no history of our rages, no unfair second, third, fourth chances.

    It will be fairer…

    Will it matter?

    TG: Yes it will matter. With each man I am learning more about me and how to handle situations when they arise. You have to say NO to the universe with things, so that you leave the space for the thing good to come into your life that you can say YES to. If I say yes again to rage man again, I am in some ways telling him that his behavior is ok and it is most certainly not. I already did this. He saw me tolerating his vomit, so therefore he continued it and it only got worse!

    So- maybe it will happen again with another man, I don’t know and maybe it won’t and maybe I will at THAT time be able to be completely loving, walk away and handle it perfectly. I don’t know. Then maybe the NEXT man will not be raging at me. Maybe I will be ready for Mr. Calm.

    And who says that there has to be a “history of our rages” OMG! What a concept, a relationship without all the crap of raging at one another! That would be very nice indeed! I want one of those!

    SLV:
    I’m still imagining and I don’t have an answer.

    TG: Yes I am imagining a man who does not do this to me anymore. I want a calm man who mirrors my mostly most of the time calm self. I want one of those. xxoo



  41.  #41Soul Sista on December 1, 2010 at 12:14 pm

    I’m really pleased to be seeing these posts about being powerful and loving…when I “betrayed” the man (sex) back in March I came on here an posted about it and got some strange feedback about, basically amounting to that he deserved it. but, going behind someone’s back is not powerful and loving – to myself.

    yes, it did make him become afraid to lose me but it caused way more pain and problems.

    i have started to Circular Date now. i’m getting more out of my shell and trying to meet men online…even after many failures because right now I live in a pretty rural area, amazingly gorgeuos, but rural. i posted in the closest city and met someone! he happened to own a house here in this town and drove up to take me out to dinner. we had a nice time but i was still feeling squeamish after because he likes me.

    i realized, this guy wants to wine and dine you, you are ready for CIRCULAR DATING, as a matter of fact that is the best thing for you right now, and i have agreed to see him on Sunday…he also “just happens” to have been an event promoter so i didn’t feel like such an alien (as I am a musician).

    soul sista



  42.  #42Gina on December 1, 2010 at 1:36 pm

    Ladies, would love any imput asap for an opportunity I have with D right now. We’ve been “broken up” for about a month. Now I understand why Rori says that breaking up is just a bunch of unnecessary drama! I feel like I’ve been put in time out for acting out in a rage at him at the movie theater (I was furious because he seemed drunk, though he denied it but proceeded to act completely insane). Over the next 3 days, he became super duper needy, and I raged on. Then he just didn’t contact me for a couple of weeks. I reached out to him a couple of times, but he was unimpressed with my efforts (he seemed to imagine that I would come to him with a passionate plea for forgiveness, but the truth was that I was still pissed and weirded out myself). I invited to him to come over for sex a couple of weeks ago. It’s interesting cause my feeling for sex with him fluctuates from borderline ecstasy to repulsion. This encounter was mostly sublime. Though, I remember an energetic shift that happened with out anyone saying or doing ANYTHING – it was so weird! the vibe just totally shifted. I felt grossed out by flabby moist stillness that killed the moment, and I immediately backed off. He seemed concerned about my reaction, but I didnt’ verbalize my feelings. I just wryly said “thanks for coming over.” and he said “wow that sounds like you’re saying “now get the eff out.” and he started to get dressed. That inspired me to get girlier, and the vibe heated up again. By the time he left, I felt HOTT for him. Smitten, in love.
    The next day, i invited him over again, but he declined!! i was unsure about why. I went ahead and threw myself at him again the next day, but he said no. i let him know that I felt frustrated that I was feeling so hot for him and I wish we could keep building heat in our relationship.
    A few days ago he started a text conversation that got frustrating for a minute cause he kept saying
    that he wouldn’t want to get back together with me because I’m a b word when I’m on the rag. I felt so mad! but then I realized what he was really saying, so I texted: “I’m realizing that you’re saying that I acted like I didn’t like you too often. I just don’t like clingy neediness and I felt that a lot from you ever since I told you I felt unsure about Boston. In general, I felt frustrated about the pressure to move because it was so obvious to me that you should go take care of business and get back to me when you could. the whole thing is a lot of stress that I don’t really want to be a part of. I’m really proud of you and i do love you and I’m showing you that Im hot for you so that you will see that you don’t have to cling to me or pressure me to have me. I willingly give myself to you because you are a good guy and you do make me feel cherished and loved. And I do want to have a family. I just want to feel good. I was keeping things to myself, but if I felt tired stressed or sick, I was less likely to cater to your needs and more likely to withdraw. I can work on remaining present and not withdrwing – I just don’t want to feel like a mans emotional needs are more important that mine, especially when i don’t feel good.”
    I didn’t hear from him till the next day – he said he just isn’t sure what to say or if there’s anything left to say. He said that when he read my text he just kept thinking “why now? why not months ago?” I said that I thought I had been saying these things all along, but maybe not in a way that he could hear. He agreed.
    Since then, he’s been in contact consistently and he’s definitely more lighthearted, though he is still letting me know his gripes about me. He used to be SO SWEET to me. Now, he’s telling all about how he didn’t think I treated him very well, he just never said anything. I can sorta see what he’s saying. BUT I felt turned off by clingy weirdness, so I don’t blame myself for the ways I took care of number one. Last night he made a snide comment about me being bratty. I said “you better stop calling me bratty, or I’ll call you whiny.”
    He said “yeah, I guess i can be whiny. Sometimes.”
    Then I said that I like it when he reports how he feels to me, but I don’t like hearing emotional pleas from a man cause I feel icked out by being in a masculine role. I dunno. That isn’t entirely right. What do i want to say to him?? I’m having a hard tim articulating this cause I’m worried about whether this is a behavior that can be addressed or if this is just the fabric of who he is…? I guess I sorta think he needs his own set of “tools”. Maybe. I really don’t know. I like him – his sense of humor, how he treats people, his cocky arrogant work side. I do not like his whiny side. Like when he says “Well, I can’t go because I’ve got to work. That’s just what I do…I work all the time.”

    If anyone has read all this I would love to know what you think!



  43.  #43Gina on December 1, 2010 at 1:52 pm

    I don’t think I posed the question well:

    He’s texted me back saying “emotional pleas?”

    so I feel like this is an opportunity for me to articulate what I don’t want from him.

    I don’t want to feel lik I’m dealing with a Baby Man!



  44.  #44Senior Lady Vibe on December 1, 2010 at 2:16 pm

    40: Turtle Girl says:

    “…OK SLV: Here’s my response to your post—–it’s meaty and long and no apologies for it….lol…”

    Thanks, TG. Dear girl, I am on your side. I am thankful for the opportunity to do my little “riff/imagination” thing and I hope I have not offended you in any way. I’m trying to work out in my mind how I feel and think about a lot of things.

    “…As Tinque said-he may not be heal-able, at least not with me. He will want to bulldoze me again and again I fear. I don’t want that in a man and am ready to have that healed and have a calm man. I truly am. RR say we want the relationship, not the man. I totally get this…”

    Yes, TG, I saw that and thought “Four times!” because initially I thought it had happened ONCE before not multiple times. Re: the relationship not the man. I get this concept also (I’ve discovered I got it more than 30 years ago and even said it to someone; I was just considered “weird” then and maybe didn’t understand myself as well…I’d even forgotten those words…)

    Getting the concept is one thing, getting the relationship is the hard part. You went after what you wanted; I shut myself away. Sigh. Well, I’m back again at the ninth hour. I’m turning back time, I’ll make that the sixth hour… 😀

    “…Yes I am imagining a man who does not do this to me anymore. I want a calm man who mirrors my mostly most of the time calm self. I want one of those. xxoo…”

    Me, too…

    xoxoxo
    SLV



  45.  #45Brenda on December 1, 2010 at 2:21 pm

    Yay! I’m back online…on my OWN computer! It was less than 24 hours, but it felt like longer! I have become so dependent on internet and email! You all are part of my social life! LOL!

    Happy December!



  46.  #46Brenda on December 1, 2010 at 2:22 pm

    Brenda,

    RE: #38 – Hey! Who you be?? You not be me!



  47.  #47Brenda on December 1, 2010 at 2:27 pm

    Soul Sista Brenda,

    Where is your website? or facebook? I’d like to check out your music!

    And I guess I better change my name. 🙂



  48.  #48Senior Lady Vibe on December 1, 2010 at 2:28 pm

    @45: Brenda says:

    “Brenda,
    RE: #38 – Hey! Who you be?? You not be me!”

    LOL. You said you would be away and your doppelganger showed up! 😆

    SLV



  49.  #49Bren on December 1, 2010 at 2:29 pm

    This is my new name so I am not confused with the other Brenda.



  50.  #50Jeannette on December 1, 2010 at 2:31 pm

    Girls, I feel sort of bad but this week end I told my fiance that I need to know what his plans are as far as employment after his recovery from chemo. He hasn’t worked in awhile, since he had a heart attack in 2007. I can’t be the only one working. He gets a very small amount in disability but I can’t be taking care of him the rest of his life unless he wants to financially assist me. I need to know what his plans are….does that make sense to you? He acts like he can’t think about it much right now. But I think that is something worth thinking about and it may get his mind off his cancer. Even a small part time job…know what I mean?



  51.  #51Nikita on December 1, 2010 at 2:32 pm

    Hi Gina,

    Sounds good so far! like…lots of progress and self discovery for you personally. Are you “explaining” though or sharing feelings? I’d just out girl him.
    How could you express as opposed to explain, and outgirl as opposed to “get in your head” ,here?



  52.  #52Brenda on December 1, 2010 at 2:32 pm

    SLV,

    LOL! Yeah, that must be confusing! I just posted under “Bren” so there won’t be confusion ongoing. Of course it is in moderation, so I’ll use “Brenda” until it gets posted.

    I noticed once when I was reading an old blog thread that there was a Brenda. This should be fun! I’m glad I didn’t have any further issues with getting connected. I have a nice big monitor now, instead of the tiny laptop monitor. Now I hope I can get the speed of this connection increased. I am working on that, thanks to Dorothea and another friend.



  53.  #53Daria on December 1, 2010 at 2:35 pm

    Gina – I think your work is in your own behavior… IE leaning forward must STOP and then you will be more clear on what you don’t want.

    At this point, you are taking over the masculine role pretty often, and that is facilitating him to get all girly.

    This reminds me super much of how i acted with Hovering Man.

    and I would feel turned off, even though I like him…

    it’s like it was So easy to turn into the ‘smart’ one… the one who suggests things or advises… it was like poof and i was there again… slippery slope

    ***

    first: no more initiating ANYTHING

    and that will solve like 80% of it

    second:

    I apologize for disrespecting you. I don’t want to feel blamed or pressured with a man.

    if he says that stuff about work… icky!

    “that feels weird hearing that…”

    (im getting triggered myself imagining it – btw when i DID in the past have sex with Hovering man, i experienced that soft flabby repulsion you speak of and ran… haven’t been able to get to have sex with him since)

    “why babe?”

    “i’m not sure… it feels like a turn off to me… I find myself judging you… and i don’t want to feel that way… I don’t want to hear what sounds like complaining from my man… or him sounding powerless… and addicted to behaviors like “work”… i don’t want to think that that would get in the way of him doing what he wants to do…

    I don’t feel safe that way… I want to feel like i can lean on him and count on him to make decisions and be strong

    and even though i know this is just getting triggered FOR ME… and I’m not saying that’s whats going on with YOU… that’s what comes up for me when i hear that and i feel turned off… “



  54.  #54Brenda on December 1, 2010 at 2:35 pm

    Jeannette,

    It sounds wise to discuss it. I would feel concerned if he didn’t have any aspirations of getting back to work. Is he in depression?

    When I was with Ryan, I chose to overlook him being on disability because he said his goal was to get well and work. I was willing to accept him on disability, but it made a difference that he was trying.

    You’re either busy living or busy dying (“Shawshank Redemption”)



  55.  #55Gina on December 1, 2010 at 2:36 pm

    Thanks Nikita. Yeah, I see what you mean about the splainin I did.



  56.  #56Daria on December 1, 2010 at 2:38 pm

    or keep it simple with “i feel uncomfortable to say this because i don’t want to push you away… i really want to be open though… the truth is:

    “i feel turned off hearing a man complaining… and i don’t want to feel that way with you… what do you think?”



  57.  #57Daria on December 1, 2010 at 2:39 pm

    but im not complaining!

    “i hear you.. i just felt icky and kinda drained hearing that…”



  58.  #58Daria on December 1, 2010 at 2:41 pm

    don’t let him “get away with it” – with turning you off that is…

    remember HE’S a MAN!

    all his communication with you is about WOOING you and making YOU feel good!

    so…

    let him know THIS particular communication feels icky…



  59.  #59Gina on December 1, 2010 at 2:42 pm

    Him: emotional pleas?

    Me: Hmm maybe not the best way to describe it.

    Him: Okay?

    Me: I just don’t want to be with a Baby Man. and I’m not calling you one. I’m not calling you alcoholic, controlling or Baby man, those are just things I feel really scared of committing to. I am sorry for attacking you when I felt mad.

    Him: Me too.

    Me: I forgive you.

    Him: I’m not used to receiving such long texts from you.

    Me: I’m feeling less inspired.

    Him: Oh come on.

    Me: :p

    Me: But d, what are you sorry for?

    Is this a good question? Does he need to fess up and take responsibility for sneaking drinks, being whiny and manipulative and for criticising me lately?



  60.  #60Daria on December 1, 2010 at 2:43 pm

    skip the “just” revised to

    him: but im not complaining, its the truth, that’s all i do

    me: oh… that feels bad to hear… i get the impression that you’re not in charge of your own life and decisions and that feels like a turn off…

    i don’t want to feel that way with you… what do you think?

    him: i Am in charge

    me: oh.. 🙂 that feels much better to hear hehe



  61.  #61Daria on December 1, 2010 at 2:44 pm

    Gina – he doesn’t NEED to do anything

    YOU are in charge of not tolerating anything that feels bad… and making sure YOU feel good…

    lean back…



  62.  #62Daria on December 1, 2010 at 2:46 pm

    Him: i’m not used to receiving such long texts from you

    me: crickets

    or “whoa that feels kinda bad to read”

    me: im feeling less inspired

    him: oh come on

    me: i don’t want to be cricticized or complained to



  63.  #63Daria on December 1, 2010 at 2:46 pm

    that feels bad

    actually… im feeling a bit upset…



  64.  #64Gina on December 1, 2010 at 2:47 pm

    Daria,

    Girl that was good. Thank you very much! Yup your feelings about matched mine, and you did a pretty good impression of him, too. Okay…I am DONE with initiating. Done.



  65.  #65Gina on December 1, 2010 at 2:47 pm

    Daria,
    I feel curious: why was Hovering Man called as such, (if you don’t mind me asking)?



  66.  #66Rori Raye on December 1, 2010 at 2:48 pm

    soul sista – brava to you!! Yes, right now you’re going to be put off by a man who likes you – so just keep going until you slowly fade that fear out and can LOVE a man who loves you! Love, Rori



  67.  #67Gina on December 1, 2010 at 2:49 pm

    I feel like judgin him some more!



  68.  #68Daria on December 1, 2010 at 2:52 pm

    Gina – Hovering man was called hovering man because…

    the times after the first times when we attempted to have sex…

    he would like “hover” above me with this 5-year old puppy dog look… and babyspeak

    i felt so turned off and uncomfortable with that “Hovering”

    egah



  69.  #69Brenda on December 1, 2010 at 2:52 pm

    To Brenda From Soul Sista ~ I’ll go back to Soul Sista when I get approved…

    i don’t want to out myself here my email me at livingallmydreams@gmail.com and I will point you to our incredible music 🙂

    I’d like to start a Commitment Blueprint support circle so I can focus with other women who would like to focus their situation…here or otherwise, I don’t care. i’d like to get deeper but not on a public forum. But, I will still participate here.

    Soul Sista



  70.  #70Daria on December 1, 2010 at 2:54 pm

    Gina – what do you feel like judging him for? write it out… there are GEMS in there about waht you dont want!

    lets make feeling messages dont wants from them after you write it



  71.  #71Gina on December 1, 2010 at 2:57 pm

    I feel like judging him for being emotionally costipated. Like, why did he have to hold on to his past gripes about how I don’t contact him enough, and complain when i actually am doing what he says he wants!!



  72.  #72Rosa on December 1, 2010 at 2:57 pm

    I feel so disappointed !!!

    G-Man cant come and care for me next week.
    There is a memorial service taking place including his Dad who died 4 months ago and he is taking his mother at her request. Its one of those Hospice arranged things.

    I understand. She needs him. My head and rational thoughts totally get that.

    I am disappointed.
    I am frustrated and i feel unimportant in the greater scheme of things.

    I feel angry that I am way down the priority line in his life . This is not rational . But it IS how I am feeling.

    I also know he would never make an undertaking and withdraw from that without very good reason.

    I do feel a little bit important and I do feel at last RESPECTED.



  73.  #73Brenda on December 1, 2010 at 2:58 pm

    Rori ~ Thank you but what do you mean by “put off” by a man that likes me?

    At this point, seeing this new man…I’m not cared anymore. The pain of not being cherished has surpassed the fear of losing the man I love.

    soul sista



  74.  #74Daria on December 1, 2010 at 3:00 pm

    Soul Sista –

    I might have been one of the ones who advised something that may have been interpreted as “he deserved it”

    I just want to make sure that I did not INTEND the advice to say “he deserved it”

    instead… I would want to say that It’s not in a woman’s best interest to make an exclusive commitment to a man before she gets the TRUE commitment she wants…

    and especially Long Distance!

    Rori teaches that when we HAVE made a exclusivity agreement with a man… this is because WE wanted it…

    and if we DO sleep with another, we tell him… I’ve met someone else… and I no longer want to be sexually exclusive…

    that’s it. It’s about Our power to choose our lives.

    and about beinng OPEN and TRUTHFUL,

    not ‘owing’ anyone exclusivity, or our bodies… or our LOYALTY!!!

    not until WE HAVE THE RELATIONSHIP WE WANT



  75.  #75Gina on December 1, 2010 at 3:05 pm

    yuck. icky hoveringness!

    I would feel more peace of mind about whether I am avoiding controlling, alcoholic baby man ness if I did get an acknowledgement of that behavior from him.



  76.  #76Senior Lady Vibe on December 1, 2010 at 3:05 pm

    @48: Jeannette says:

    “… He acts like he can’t think about it much right now. But I think that is something worth thinking about and it may get his mind off his cancer. Even a small part time job…know what I mean…”

    Yeah, I know what you mean. Maybe it’s not an “act.” Maybe he really can’t think much about it right now, maybe he’s thinking more about trying to fight cancer and stay as feeling good and as alive as he can.

    Not meant to offend you, but if I were he and “a loved one” asked me about getting a job when I was concerned mostly about my chemotherapy cancer treatment, I’d probably be singing that song…

    “…if I was ritcha, I’d still be witcha…so f-ck you…and f-ck you too…” something like that… 😀

    I believe the most prudent thing to do is only count on his contribution being a montly disability check as a sure thing–unless the U.S. goes under during his lifetime–and use that to forecast your budget.

    SLV
    I must be channeling EMK



  77.  #77Daria on December 1, 2010 at 3:05 pm

    GINA – EXACTLY!!!

    thats the gem… that’s what you DONT want…

    thats why i said above to write…

    whoa that feels bad!

    “I feel like judging him for being emotionally costipated. Like, why did he have to hold on to his past gripes about how I don’t contact him enough, and complain when i actually am doing what he says he wants!!”

    lets drop the judgement and just feel

    how does this feel

    I feel blamed, i feel bad, i don’t feel good

    “whoa… that feels bad to read… i feel blamed and complained about and i don’t want to feel that way”

    it’s not as easy to SEE this because you have been TOLERATING his complaints (probably because you felt guilty about attacking him)

    but you don’t have to tolerate Any complaints about you or ANYTHING

    every communication from a man is WORSHIP

    it’s feel GOOD to me communication!

    that’s its PURPOSE!

    to make me HAPPY!

    so when it doesn’t I gotta be clear, and I just assume the man is not aware… that this doesn’t feel good

    so i openly let him know

    intention in me would be like:

    heyyy!!! i know you are trying to worship me and making me feel good THANK YOU!!, and actually this doesn’t work for me… but i’m open to everything that does… and I believe in you and that you can give me stuff that does… and i really appreciate it



  78.  #78Daria on December 1, 2010 at 3:09 pm

    Gina – I wouldn’t look to him for acknowledgement of that… its not necessary… thats like needing asking from him

    the non masculine actions are from his own wounds/triggerdness

    the way to heal it is to lovingly express our Woman feelings in reaction to them

    our womaness is like a carrot that motivates him to heal those



  79.  #79Lucy on December 1, 2010 at 3:15 pm

    Jeannette, I kind of agree with SLV. Having been through cancer myself (just had an oncology check-up today, and all is well – yay!), I can say that it changed me in ways that are both very positive and also extremely challenging — physically, emotionally, mentally, spiritually — everything. He may not be ready to give you what you want, even if he would LIKE to be ready.



  80.  #80Soul Sista on December 1, 2010 at 3:27 pm

    Daria ~ Yes, it was you! LOL 🙂 No worries…I am really vibing with your posts today.

    In terms of him ignoring me…I’m just using this time to create a blank slate for me. i’m not going to beat myself up about the decisions i made about being exclusive before…i begin again today.

    until i have the relationship i want…i am married to me.

    it still hurts, though so i really appreciate this forum being here to help keep me on track!

    soul sista



  81.  #81Daria on December 1, 2010 at 3:34 pm

    I just want to acknowldege to myself spirit and the world that

    MY BLADDER FEELS HEALTHY!

    it feels so good to lay back and run my attention through my body and it feeling calm and comfortable!

    what was the shift?

    several months ago, i stopped worrying about it

    i was keeping myself sick with my attention to it and my mind

    and i could no longer afford acupuncture

    so i let it be

    what will happen will happen

    if i get sick and die… ok… i am ok

    and instead, without my attetion to disease

    i healed!

    yay!

    i stopped checking how my pee looks

    it still looks different at different times

    and

    so what!

    i feel healthy

    i feel good about me

    yum me



  82.  #82Lucy on December 1, 2010 at 3:34 pm

    Him: Do you have plans for sat evening?
    Me: Not so far.
    Him: Does that mean you are looking for something to do?
    Me: 🙂 It just means I have no specific plans at the moment.
    Him: Okay. Would you like to make an arrangement for the evening?

    Now I’m stumped. I kinda want to say, “You mean make a floral arrangement?” But that would kinda be making fun of him.

    This is a new contact from pof — haven’t met yet — and I feel kinda “eh” about him.

    I had actually just yesterday decided that I was going to be alone for the rest of my life and make the best of it, so this is kinda throwing a monkey wrench in those plans.

    If he had asked a day or two ago, I woulda felt excited bc I was at an all-time low of loneliness. Then I made that decision (see previous paragraph). Now I just kinda want to be left alone.

    I don’t know what to do. Or say (to him).

    P.S. This is NOT the same guy that’s learning that Steve Azar song.

    Help.



  83.  #83Daria on December 1, 2010 at 3:35 pm

    Lucy : sure! that would feel lovely



  84.  #84Lucy on December 1, 2010 at 3:40 pm

    Thanks, Daria. Only problem is, those are not my authentic feelings.

    More like, Um, I don’t know. I will see how I feel about it on Saturday.

    *making weird face at myself*



  85.  #85Jeannette on December 1, 2010 at 4:34 pm

    Lucy, I understand what you’re saying…..he may not be ready…..so what should I do? I have waited for guys in the past and they didn’t come around….I am concerned he won’t either in the end….Should I begin looking around again or what? Should I tell him or what? We were in love in our teens and rediscovered ea other just 6 mo.s ago. I do love him but, I have a fear that I may lose him and I have lost much in my life already. What do I do next? Ask him if he just wants to be friends?



  86.  #86Daria on December 1, 2010 at 5:03 pm

    Lucy – as far as I know Rori advises us to open up our vibe to new men that want to meet us…

    something more accurate could be like

    i feel unsure… im feeling a bit closed off at the moment… but i don’t want to feel this way so i am open to meet on saturday and see how i feel…



  87.  #87Soul Sista on December 1, 2010 at 5:28 pm

    daria ~ i like that “i feel unsure.” actually the whole thing…

    i’m really new at learning how to identify then express my feelings instead of reacting…practice with the men i’m circular dating with i think is my next course of action.

    i will try and remember to get support on how to communicate with this guy when he’s done ignoring me.



  88.  #88Daria on December 1, 2010 at 5:49 pm

    interesante…

    “Belief is of the ego mind and hence, false. When we know something is true, we don’t need to involve our egos. This is why we don’t really have much emotional attachment to the truth. It just is. When people become emotional about a subject I know they only ‘believe’ it. This usually comes up around religious or political beliefs. They are protecting their programming which has settled into the ego
    mind. The truth is foreign to those who argue those two subjects. It is their not knowing which causes the emotional response. Those who have certainty, which is from their experience, have no emotional charge on it. Arguing, by definition, is a reaction of the ego. This is why no one wins an argument. There is no win when the ego thinks it has won.”

    ~ Mary Croft…

    hmm… so yes, I will check deeper when i feel emotional about stuff

    like religion…

    i get triggered because it threatens my new joyful programming when i read other’s opionions

    and once i “get” it i will be able to look at other’s opinions dispassionately,

    knowing that even their road will take them where they want to go



  89.  #89AmberS on December 1, 2010 at 6:17 pm

    Daria,

    #88

    …i will be able to look at other’s opinions dispassionately,

    knowing that even their road will take them where they want to go

    ROCK ON!



  90.  #90Senior Lady Vibe on December 1, 2010 at 6:18 pm

    @80: Soul Sista says:

    “…until i have the relationship i want…i am married to me…”

    I like these words!

    SLV



  91.  #91Darling Ella on December 1, 2010 at 6:31 pm

    Rosa : # 72

    Wished I was there with you… I would offer a big loving hug and an awesome massage – which always does it for me 🙂

    Gosh, this feeling reminds me of something … I miss my culture…the women of my culture…we are a bit like monkeys…touching each other a lot…Every time my sister visits or I visit one of my female friends/relatives and I appear “down”…they offer to give me a massage…When we walk on a street, we are hands on or very close to one another…

    Gosh, that almost never happens with the American culture…

    I feel sad seeing how rejected the idea of touching is here in the US…Everything is under suspicion and scrutiny…Ok, for good reasons at times but it got to the point of paranoia 🙁

    Why don’t we invest in mental illness more than beauty products? I wonder :(……Gosh, it really goes against our human nature not be loved, touched…:(

    Humans need touch…lots of it…Women need the togetherness and fellowship…Nowadays, it is soooo difficult to get it…and I sooo miss it…:(



  92.  #92Senior Lady Vibe on December 1, 2010 at 6:48 pm

    @72: Rosa says:

    “I feel so disappointed !!!”

    I feel that! Disappointment leaves a hollow space to be filled; however, I’m thinking that he is still in the picture although not physically close to you.

    Plan some enjoyment for yourself.

    xoxoxo
    SLV



  93.  #93Daria on December 1, 2010 at 7:12 pm

    Feeling sad



  94.  #94Senior Lady Vibe on December 1, 2010 at 7:21 pm

    @93: Daria says:

    “Feeling sad…”

    Big smooch to you!

    It was cold and rainy all day but tonight when I came in I saw the building staff had put up the annual Christmas trees and the lobby had that holiday pine aroma.

    Love it. I felt like a little girl getting what my mother always called “the Christmas spirit.” So yummy.

    I am sending you thought waves of holiday spirit…

    SLV



  95.  #95Darling Ella on December 1, 2010 at 7:23 pm

    Daria:

    Big loving hug sweetie 🙂



  96.  #96Soul Sista on December 1, 2010 at 7:38 pm

    I wanna say a couple things…

    1) It feels right to me to make a distinction about what “they” (men) are doing and and focusing on ourselves, that kind of thing…when what I am learning it is WHO I AM BEING, the actual person i embody to cause the men to be in our lives in the way they are. (thanks to the Field Center Course for this insight). after realizing this i am starting to deconstruct things I thought we true and things i thought HE was doing and seeing how it was because of who i was being.

    2) RE: 91 Darling Ella ~ I am moving out of a women’s collective here in the mountains of Northern CA in next week…here is where I recovered from alcoholism in a spiritual community of women through their love and support…coming into the community and everyone sharing…no 12 steps needed



  97.  #97Turtle Girl on December 1, 2010 at 7:49 pm

    SLV-sweet woman, nothing you have ever said offends me. You and I are kindred spirits. It’s all good. ;o)



  98.  #98Darling Ella on December 1, 2010 at 7:50 pm

    Soul Sista 🙂 I sooo feel u your warmth and strength…A strength as in “I could conquer anything if I so choose” 🙂

    I feel very interested to learn more about your experience(s)…Can’t wait to hear more sharing 🙂

    Big warm hug 🙂



  99.  #99Lucy on December 1, 2010 at 7:59 pm

    okay i have a date with this guy for sat – dinner and a hockey game. i feel excited about the game bc i’ve never been to one. he is going to do “research” to find a restaurant to meet at not far from me. i feel kinda good that so far he seems like very much a “step up” kinda guy – without that over-zealous needy vibe. he seems “healthy.” and i might feel attracted!! (not sure from the pics but Possible). thx, daria, for your encouragement.



  100.  #100Rosa on December 1, 2010 at 8:22 pm

    Lucy@82

    I had actually just yesterday decided that I was going to be alone for the rest of my life and make the best of it, so this is kinda throwing a monkey wrench in those plans.

    Sorry lucy biut the Unoiverse doesnt seem to be agreeing with your decision!! I have made the same one about being OK alone at different times (most recently before surgery) and suddenly things happen !!!
    In my case I had 2 new men interested in spite of the diagnosis ,then my first boyfriend from 35 years ago in constant contact and showering me in French Champagne and chocolate , and then G-Man trying his darndest to get to me to care for me.. All this during my medical meltdown ..huh??

    Perhaps there are other plans afoot for you Lucy , and maybe being open to meeting someone , rather than repeatedly searching for Mr Right has something to do with it. I always feel that my feelings of luck definitely manifest more LACK ! Go Figure!!!

    I am so pleased your oncology check went well .I
    am sad that you sound sad here today.

    I am thinking about being more and more in my femininity as the integrity of my womans body is challenged. I think that all you Sirens have hugely assisted me to feel MORE a woman, not less of one.
    I was fearful i would feel unsexed.
    By owning my feelings , I feel more juicy woman.. even without my hormones ..



  101.  #101Rosa on December 1, 2010 at 8:24 pm

    That typo was feelings of LACK manifest exactly that, LACK 🙂

    Luck has nothing to do with it.



  102.  #102Soul Sista on December 1, 2010 at 8:24 pm

    @ Darling Ella ~ I will! I and think a few rare cases an individual can go through something like that on their own but I’m glad I had my sisters at the Goddess Temple because it required no effort! 🙂 Just love…

    @ Lucy ~ Have fun! I just got off the phone with the guy I went out with and he’s also super step up but not creepy 🙂 really nice guy and we’re going fishing this weekend then dinner 🙂



  103.  #103Dorothea on December 1, 2010 at 8:38 pm

    lucy, when guys say to me “oh do you wanna get together on x night?”
    i say
    “tell me more” all intrigued. then i see how i feel
    hehe.



  104.  #104Rosa on December 1, 2010 at 8:39 pm

    And i would like to say that I had the exciting moment of bra shopping today !!

    My left is two cup sizes bigger (match up will be done once all bruising gone and things settle in 3 months )
    Well buying DD bras was exciting !!! I feel very feminine indeed (even with old bra cup used as liner for new bra on the “normal ” side ..

    Woohooo!!!!!!!



  105.  #105Denise on December 1, 2010 at 8:41 pm

    Hi Sirens,

    Hope you all are doing well, enjoyed the big bird day and are on to the next big celebration. For me, tonight’s the first night of Hannukah, the festival of light.

    May there be light for you all. *

    Advocating joy,
    Den



  106.  #106Daria on December 1, 2010 at 8:59 pm

    Thanks darling and sexy lady.

    Took a shower and feeling much better



  107.  #107Daria on December 1, 2010 at 9:02 pm

    Soul sista – wow a community of women in the mountains! Sounds awesome



  108.  #108Denise on December 1, 2010 at 9:07 pm

    Rosa, Lucy, Daria, glad you all are doing better. Continued Good Health!

    Soul sista Brenda, sounds like you have been through alot. I wish you continued success. Never heard of that sort of treatment community. Wish I knew about that before my sister died.



  109.  #109Soul Sista on December 1, 2010 at 9:18 pm

    denise ~ i am SO sorry about your sister 🙁 🙁 🙁 i never believed alcoholism was a disease (i thought you could only get addicted to drugs, which i never had a problem with) until it happened to me. i thought i was going to die. awful. i’m so sorry.

    i have always been a part of women’s groups and kind if hippie-tech underground culture on the west coast and i was guided by intuition to ask them for help and i came and stayed…no program just people that love me.

    the power of women together is immense…we’re still wired the like the hunter-gatherer times and i believe that’s why i recovered so quickly and fully…they are also practicing buddhists so it’s been so amazing. and, obviously, i did not date and took the time to get well.

    i’ll never go back to the Matrix. i’m going to be with my mom in 3 weeks and we are going to vacation in Yuma for a couple months and be with her for her healing time as my stepdad died last week. more women time 🙂 (plus circular dating 🙂

    soul sista



  110.  #110Daria on December 1, 2010 at 9:44 pm

    Hugs Denise and Soul Sista…

    i am no longer an alcoholic

    and my Godsister didn’t die on me… but I remember



  111.  #111Daria on December 1, 2010 at 9:49 pm

    i feel sad to hear about your sister Denise

    &



  112.  #112Daria on December 2, 2010 at 1:21 am

    epiphany… i was reading this and:

    What would be possible for you if you could let go of _____________ (fill in the blank)?

    i put in FEAR

    and…

    i thought about ok a part of me already knows how to let go of fear…

    and i thought about… a Goddess here had said how she pictures her feelings as a person

    Lorelei…

    and i saw fear, and i felt BAD to let go of her

    so i embraced her instead…

    and that felt so much better!

    I now see why “let go” triggers me so often

    i can instead EMBRACE!

    and it will still work… like the Sedona method

    which one can let go… accept… or welcome



  113.  #113Katnina on December 2, 2010 at 3:30 am

    Rosa, bra shopping sounds fun! You deserve to decorate yourself with lovely lingerie.
    I’m sorry to hear that gman had to change plans, I would be disappointed & angry too, and I completely hear you on what you feel vs what you think is rational. I’m trying to learn to go with feelings vs thoughts-sounds like that is what you are doing, how does that feel?
    And have you told him how you are feeling?



  114.  #114jasmyne on December 2, 2010 at 3:39 am

    well my bf is in the navy but he lefted meeh 4 6 months nd i dnt no wat to do i mean i really like him but i dnt know at to do without should i hld it down for him until he get bac



  115.  #115Rosa on December 2, 2010 at 4:34 am

    Hi Kat, My doggy (semi comatose on my feet ) sends love to yours!

    Yes Its hard for me to get into my feelings and out of my head . ESPECIALLY with G-Man ..I broke every rule in the Rori Raye rulebook there . I said “I feel disappointed” ..in the past I would probably have made a caustic comment about the situation and him only pretending to be available.

    Strangely as I give feeling messages more, my angry rejected feelings actually fade. I didnt actually feel angry about this let down , just disappointed.

    I also know he seriously tried to be here for me , as SLV said , its a BIg Thing that he made all those plans to be with me. Its not over yet.

    Katnina, are you CD’ing? Any weekend dates to report on?



  116.  #116marina on December 2, 2010 at 5:54 am

    Hello Sirens,

    Oh, I have a lot of catching up to do!
    Great post Rori.

    I just wanted to say that I have 2 weeks off from work (talked to the Safety Health and Welfare Service and my GP). They told me I should really take a break. Next week I have the first appointment with a psychologist.
    I feel relieved I finally looked for help. I feel happy that my colleagues understand it and I hear from so many people that they went through the same thing…
    I still feel very tired and mostly like I have a burn out, I have just been going on and on and on an pushing myself further and further. I feel so glad that I found this website and started to notice and feel my feelings, this really is the first step.
    I am taking care of myself (eating healthy, going to
    bed in time, listening to what feels good and I keep in touch with friends and family).

    And now I am going to spoil myself, a friend is taking me to the sauna 🙂
    (And there is so much snow outside!!!)

    Love, Marina



  117.  #117Simply Shannon on December 2, 2010 at 8:07 am

    Scanning through the posts this morning and wanted to jot down the words jumping out at me…

    Darling Ella, I completely agree about the physical, the touch post you mentioned. I’m really big about hugging people and touching people. I do it for me, and I do it for the spirit in the other person too. I need touch.

    and then reading further, I see Daria’s word EMBRACE. It jumped off the page at me.

    I probably lean forward about this more than some folks feel comfortable with but I say “so what”. I know it feels good to them even if it initially feels awkward.

    I love hugs. I love touch. So what! 😉



  118.  #118Turtle Girl on December 2, 2010 at 9:09 am

    Hey Daria-#88
    Este es muy interasante mi bonita muchacha! Creo que Si!

    I find it really satisfying when I can look at, study or hear someones else religious beliefs and not try and “convince” them or preach to them of my own. I never do this, but I think it is because I am secure in my own truth. It does not need the ego to prove it to someone else. Thank you for posting this. I don’t know Mary Croft but she warrants a look up.

    xxoo



  119.  #119Hadassah on December 2, 2010 at 9:50 am

    Holy wowzers. Met the 40 year old guy for lunch yesterday and had the BEST time. He walked over to my car and offered me his hand while I was getting out, brought me a burned CD that I mentioned in passing I would love a copy of, and we had a really nice time. It felt natural and easy. He texts me every day, calls when he says he will, and pretty much has treated me like a goddess every chance he has gotten. A girl could get used to this. I keep pinching myself with how amazingly easy this is!

    He made a comment about how he hopes he can one day be my bf. I told him that I am not into the bf/gf thing because I am looking to get married and have a real family with my daughter, and that I really enjoy his company and talking with him so can we please just call it dating and go from there?

    He said he completely understands why I don’t want to fall into the gf trap. Um wow. Was not expecting that.

    He tells me how lucky he is to have found me and how excited he is to keep getting to know me. We have literally talked about everything and we agree on so much. He says he “loves the way I communicate with him and how different it is than any other woman he has ever dated or been with.” Hmm. Gee. I wonder why 🙂

    He is adorable, too which is nice. Gorgeous hazel eyes and a smile that lights up the whole room.

    I can’t believe some of the stories he has told me about dates with women. They have asked how much money he makes, if he owns a house, what kind of car he drives, how fast he wants to get married, etc. It’s CRAZY. It doesn’t sound like they are looking for love, but for more of a business partnership! No wonder they are miserable in their love lives.

    I keep wanting to pinch myself. I literally was like, “ok. All of these jackasses keep contacting you on the dating websites. They wont ask you out, or if they do don’t firm up plans. They don’t respect your boundaries. They whine about me not being willing to call them or take them out or text them first. Are there any men out there that know what they are looking for, want a woman they can treat like a queen, are open with their feelings, and can communicate?” And it seems like this guy is all that and THEN some. There might be something to this whole much older than I am used to dating thing. He LOVES that I am “old fashioned”. SO excited to see where this goes! It is going to be fun and a learning experience either way!



  120.  #120Denise on December 2, 2010 at 10:03 am

    Daria, and Brenda Soul Sista,

    Yes, loosing a loved one to alcohol/drug abuse was horrible on me and my family. My sister was my biggest cheerleader and helped to raise me, as she is 12 years older. The demons took her from us, slowly over 30 years. Every day I miss her so badly. You are both so brave. She went into a rehab for quite a while, which I was so happy about for her, near her end, and was working with the program although she hated the 12 step AA. About two weeks after getting out, she died in her sleep. It was a bad combination of drugs, mixed with some alcohol. I think she could not endure the suffering any longer and simply gave out. My wish for you is to never to look back at that place.

    I also recently lost a step-mom to an undiscernable cancer in a sudden way, so I am spending a lot of time with my precious Dad. He is elderly and I worry about him so! The best gift we can give is ourselves. I applaud you for taking the time off to go be with your Mom, Soul Sista. I know it will be a time of healing for you both.

    Marina, enjoy your spa day! Wish I was there. : )

    Darling Ella, where do you come from? I so hear you about the physicality of the Americans! So cold.



  121.  #121Darling Ella on December 2, 2010 at 10:12 am

    Feeling down today…:(

    Gosh, how can I not fall in love with lyrics/music like this??? My next husband will sing this to me…:) I give myself a tight hug till then…:(

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ch7txUjCmiA&feature=related

    You are the candle, love’s the flame
    A fire that burns through wind and rain
    Shine your light on this heart of mine
    Till the end of time
    You came to me like the dawn through the night
    …Just shinin’ like the sun
    Out of my dreams and into my life
    You are the one, you are the one

    Chorus
    Said I loved you but I lied
    ’cause this is more than love I feel inside
    Said I loved you but I was wrong
    ’cause love could never ever feel so strong
    Said I loved you but I lied



  122.  #122Darling Ella on December 2, 2010 at 10:20 am

    Simply Shanon: #116

    When I meet someone in the US that loves hugging and touching…I feel suspicious and think…”they must be aliens” like me…OK, Ok…I am just kidding…really…:)

    Now, back at embracing myself…weird feelings …



  123.  #123tinque on December 2, 2010 at 10:39 am

    I feel really surprised about the experiencing of Americans as cold or not touchy feely.
    Most “americans” are not from here at all, that would be the american indians, but details aside, almost everyone I know loves hugs and smooches as much as I, men and women. I kiss all my “tribal” women on the lips even K’s mother.
    I can only think of one friend who is not big on the affection.

    xxoo



  124.  #124Leo on December 2, 2010 at 10:43 am

    @ Darling Ella:

    I have lived in the U.S. for over a year, and yes, that was exactly what i missed with them.
    After half a year I found someone who likes hugging and even giving a kiss on the cheek just when she felt like. And I was sooo suspicious.
    But…well… the thing is: She ain’t no normal American 😉 She actually missed that in her fellows there too.

    I am in a really good mood today.
    Funny story (at least to me):
    I was on my way to my man’s house for over the weekend. And I told him I will be there around a quarter past 4. So at 12 past 4 he called and said: Where you at? And I was wondering why he asked. Cause I mean…I wasnt even close to being late or something. So I told him where I was (like 10 minutes away). And then he said “well, i was just at the bank and now I am at XXX so I thought I’d call and if you were close… But if you are just at YYY I will go upstairs (he was like 100yards away from home….).
    I just thought it was funny…i mean… I can walk those 100yards by myself.
    Just cute and I felt good and loved!
    😀



  125.  #125Soul Sista on December 2, 2010 at 10:53 am

    Touching: When i came here to the Goddess Temple i had my final alcohol relapse…when my friend took me to the hospital i was lying there suffering terribly she touched my foot and held her hand there and said “I’m so glad I could be here for you.” i think in that instant is when my healing began.

    MEN – On Closure, letting go, etc: i feel SO sad and my heart hurts…my head keeps trying to make excuses for him, for me, for what could be done now to “fix” things…but my heart knows the truth now. no more trying to “get back in there” and try to explain ANYTHING.

    the truth is I AM THE GOLD (i just wrote a song about that, it’s almost done in production and i can’t wait for you to hear it). i am married to ME until I GET THE RELATIONSHIP I WANT.

    soul sista



  126.  #126Darling Ella on December 2, 2010 at 11:00 am

    Tinque:

    I so hope my observations are not offending anyone…because it is really not my intent, but more so an attempt to make myself aware of what I am missing…and possibly others…

    I have lived in the US for the past 16 years. My comments are based on a certain level of comparison. This is my own experience.

    American women are raised early on at a high level of independence (actually most kids) – again my observation and I won’t use stats…:) There is nothing wrong with that…it’s just different…also, the time and distance factors add to the cause of women not having the time to be with one another…

    I am fairly independent myself…yet, I cant’ help but notice when someone is in distress I tend (not as much these days)…to do what I think would make them feel good…give my time, entertain them, cook, massage, etc…

    When I am in distress, my American women friends kinda disappear…:( ; and these are the moments that make me appreciate/miss even more my culture…where friends don’t ask, but just do it for you…

    Kids that are born here from foreign families, assimilate the transition/cultural differences much easier…:)

    Hope this explains why I made the observation…

    Hugs,



  127.  #127Denise on December 2, 2010 at 11:02 am

    The power of touch!



  128.  #128Darling Ella on December 2, 2010 at 11:05 am

    Leo:

    I feel happy u relate to my experience 🙂 Bringing out awareness to an aspect of our lives that is lacking or not understood…may help heal and hopefully create wonderful business opportunities for those who feel interested in healing the world …:)

    Hugs,



  129.  #129Darling Ella on December 2, 2010 at 11:15 am

    Soul Sista:

    I feel anxious about hearing your song…

    Denise:
    The power of touch is amazing indeed…

    My son’s doctors were amazed how fast he would recover from surgeries and multiple chemos…I touched him, held him…non stop…I would crawl into his little bed at the hospital just so i can feel him…The docs let me be…We did it together for four years…on and off…

    I believe that was the key for his recovery…the exchange of energy…the touch, the prayers…

    We should rethink placing our elderly in homes…and find ways to keep them with the family…Our children need them…:(



  130.  #130tinque on December 2, 2010 at 11:56 am

    Darling Ella – No I’m not offended at all, just surprised, yet I think I understand why you feel the way you do.

    And I think more with the proliferation of the internet, this has bred increasing isolation. And maybe it’s also a fierce independence thing.

    Yet we are all born the same, as love. We all crave touch at core. Touch is SO important, healing as Denise says.

    Thinking back when I was far more closed off, internal, afraid, I did not reach out to people, and they didn’t come to me to touch heal me either. Maybe I shut them our with my energy?

    I found though that the more I opened myself, the more I naturally reached for others. Some welcomed this right away. Some were at first hesitant but soon warmed to this. And there is still the one who air hugs.

    You may have already tried this, but how about being the one to reach out for them and more than once even if you meet with a bit of resistance? You may very well open a much longed for door to them.

    big, squishy bear hugs to all…
    xxoo



  131.  #131Daria on December 2, 2010 at 12:08 pm

    Darling Ella – I’ve been thinking about keeping the elderly in our home too… 🙂



  132.  #132Daria on December 2, 2010 at 12:12 pm

    Turtle girl – it feels scary reading Mary crofts book because she writes cynically as she calls it and takes an us vs them mentality. I am nonetheless gleaning what I like.

    Her book is actually a debunk of how the money sytrm works and basically how money dorsnt exist.



  133.  #133Daria on December 2, 2010 at 12:18 pm

    Soul sisters songs are awesome. I listened to one last nite and it took me there to the magic zone!

    I will be listening regularly



  134.  #134Soul Sista on December 2, 2010 at 12:19 pm

    i love the Mary Croft book…had a long talk about it this AM with a crone here at the goddess temple…she had a lot of good further reading for me on it.

    soul sista



  135.  #135Soul Sista on December 2, 2010 at 12:21 pm

    Thank you Daria! And wait til you hear the new ones! I am just keeping making myself available for spirit to create through me 🙂



  136.  #136Daria on December 2, 2010 at 12:34 pm

    Soul sista – can u please share the further reading?

    Also how did u heal the negative energy from the u’s vs them… I’m halfway thru and it’s got me stressed and in look of soft healing words like Rori’s



  137.  #137Soul Sista on December 2, 2010 at 12:47 pm

    daria ~ i used to be a student of A Course in Miracles that she talks about so i understand how true forgiveness works and that the “them” she is talking about is just those who are identified with the ego…but it does not change what is going on in the system so she just gives the facts about the system, her POV and what actions she took to remedy her situation.

    check your email…

    soul sista



  138.  #138Ella on December 2, 2010 at 1:00 pm

    Oh I feel tired today.

    And cold, and snuggly in my bed with a cup of tea.

    A guy on match who I have never spoken to just IM-ed me with the opening line “Will you marry me?”…

    🙂 feel nice / kinda weird.

    And he is 5ft 5″… is the universe trying to tell me something ie: get over the height issue? Lol.



  139.  #139Soul Sista on December 2, 2010 at 1:12 pm

    ella ~ i feel cold and snuggly in my bed with a cup of tea, too! 🙂

    MEN & doing nothing: as each segment of time goes by and I resist contacting him i get filled up with my own power which gives me the strength and insight to make better choices.

    i am in business with this guy and i need to discuss some important matters…luckily he has a general manager/lawyer that facilitates all the agreements, a woman 🙂 so, now i have asked her if i can talk to her to clarify our latest agreement and she can give me any more information she may deem appropriate in light of my new awareness. told her, he can be on the call, too, but i’m not requesting any changes and it’s not necessary for him to be on the call. she says this is OK.

    i feel powerful and happy 🙂



  140.  #140Rosa on December 2, 2010 at 1:28 pm

    Hadassah

    How exciting. I feel excited for you and I wanted to congratulate you on HOW FAST you put ex-man on the back of your horse and how fast you just GOT the whole no GF thing and put it in to play with the ex , and how fast he disappeared as he was obviously using the convenience of your situation…

    and BANG goes the energy shift and there he is , gorgeous number one CD ..

    I am wondering how many more like this you can manifest?

    I think you deserve the Super Siren award for this week… Yaaayyy!!!!

    (Awarded to Sirens who get the message and change the negative things that aren’t working in their relationships and move rapidly towards getting the Relationship They want !!!!)



  141.  #141Ella on December 2, 2010 at 1:37 pm

    Just catching up on posts on here… I am relating to so much…

    I still feel ‘icky’ sometimes when a guy likes me, especially when he REALLY likes me.

    Something is happening between me and Mr Barman and I am not really sure what it is.
    I feel very mixed with him. Sometimes very good and sometimes not so good but it is good practice for me to say what I feel when I feel it.

    He has left his relationship. Recently he has been saying a lot of stuff like ‘….. is going to show me how to use a washing machine’ or ‘I have never been in this situation before’ I think relating to finding a place to live on his own…

    And it has been making me feel icky, like eewwww!! Well who the heck has been doing your washing then!! Makes me feel turned off like he is not a grown up man… and that doesn’t feel good.

    I have found myself feeling judgemental of him and I don’t want that. I want to stay open.

    And when I felt judgemental it was like whatever he said I did not feel any respect and did not respect his efforts. And then the vibe shifted and wasn’t so good.

    I want to appreciate him as I do all men. But keep the focus on me. KEEP THE FOCUS ON ME ELLA!

    I can see I am going to have to really watch what is ‘my stuff’ here in this situation and what is his. But it is going to be good practice.

    Oh and making myself still CD and that helps normalise the vibe! 🙂

    A load of other stuff happened at weekend, too long to go in to. But I felt bad with him and at the first opportunity I told him using feeling messages.

    When I did it felt better and he was able to make the situation better. I felt good, powerful and relieved.

    I am still not sure he can handle me. Will be interesting to see whether he can as he will need to man up/step up quite a lot.

    But when I stay open and the vibe is good that seems to inspire him.

    I feel curious to see… I wonder what will happen next.

    Ahh, he is so lovely sometimes. And I am giving him a chance to be masculine and ‘water’ me (like a flower).



  142.  #142Ella on December 2, 2010 at 1:41 pm

    Just tried to but Modern Siren but it would not take my card! 🙁

    Does it only take credit cards not debit cards?



  143.  #143Ella on December 2, 2010 at 1:50 pm

    Soul Sista,

    Yay, snuggly in bed with a cup of tea is such a good place to be! 🙂



  144.  #144Ella on December 2, 2010 at 2:00 pm

    Siren Magic feels good!



  145.  #145Leo on December 2, 2010 at 2:01 pm

    Going to bed now. Alone – but into my man’s bed 😀

    Our situation has gotten a lot better. We are taking things easier. That doesnt mean our relationship aint serious or we cant talk about serious things but only that we enjoy ourselves again much more. Live in the moment, be funny, giggle around!
    And last sunday he said the nicest thing, smiling at me: “It is still like our first days together were. It’s like nothing has changed since.”

    Thanks Rori. I am still not so good with those feeling messages, especially in “negative” situation, but the leaning back was the most important thing for me.
    I see how he enjoys himself and us even more since I let him do things for me.
    He has gotten soooo cute again.
    Good start 😉

    Thanks again!
    Good night, Ladys!



  146.  #146Jas on December 2, 2010 at 2:19 pm

    Geez…I’m doing Rori’s tips but I still haven’t been out on an actual date yet. I gave my number to 2 guys pretty much in the first week of using Rori’s tips, but 1 guy had a girlfriend,so I told him I’m not interested, and the other guy seems nice but we’ve spoken on the phone at least 4 times and he STILL hasn’t asked me out on a date. WTF? I’m not interested in just talking to you on the phone, buddy. What should I do? I am leaning back…should I just stop taking his phone calls? I don’t feel like this is going anywhere…



  147.  #147Ella on December 2, 2010 at 2:21 pm

    Respecting the masculine feels so good to me right now… like ‘ummmmmm…. energy dropping down to my pelvis!’

    🙂



  148.  #148Soul Sista on December 2, 2010 at 2:23 pm

    trying not to beat myself up…just felt nauseas…because i feel like it’s all my fault. i mean, it is…he really wanted a relationship with me and i just didn’t know how to manage it. i feel terrible.

    don’t think about him. he wasn’t perfect either. i am the gold. take care of me. soon, i’ll be alone comfy and cozy, taking baths, drinking tea and working on my music house sitting…just taking care of me, until i see my mom in 3 weeks.

    this will pass.



  149.  #149Ella on December 2, 2010 at 2:24 pm

    Jas, try telling him how you feel in feeling messages…

    somethig like “it has felt good talking on the phone but now I am beginning to feel tired of phone conversations. It always feels better to talk to people in the flesh, what do you think?”

    Rori suggests moving off the phone and into person as quickly as possible.

    If you stop taking his calls you are shutting down!



  150.  #150Ella on December 2, 2010 at 2:26 pm

    (((Soul Sista)))

    I have not been on here for a while so have missed your story however it is good that your feelings are coming out. Stay with them, love them and give a cookie to your NV’s.



  151.  #151Senior Lady Vibe on December 2, 2010 at 2:39 pm

    Help me out… please…

    How do I “unsubscribe” from the thread? I just checked my e-mail and oh, la la…

    I’ve been posting for a couple months and I don’t check the subscribe box.

    Suddenly I’ve been subscribed for two days and don’t know how that happened. The subscribe box is still unchecked. For now I’m just deleting but would prefer not having to do that.

    SLV



  152.  #152Darling Ella on December 2, 2010 at 2:45 pm

    SLV:

    Below the comment message box on the blog is “manage your subscriptions” …click and it should take u to your subscriptions…unmark the titles…hope this helps 🙂



  153.  #153Senior Lady Vibe on December 2, 2010 at 2:53 pm

    Thanks DE,

    That choice was not available so I was mystified. Weird. Refreshing solved the problem, I unticked and voila, success!

    SLV



  154.  #154Rosa on December 2, 2010 at 3:21 pm

    When will I ever learn??
    Note to self …Stop beating self up !

    Just feel it…
    disappointment (a dark vacuum sucking feeling..)
    HURT
    pain (physical )
    let down
    ANGER

    G- Man with his excuse for not cancelling was LYING..or at least creatively moving the date of his Dads memorial service. I went online to check , I could smell a rat..and there it was THIS weekend , not NEXT , ie no impediment at all to him coming as planned Tues to Friday next week.

    I was sooooooo triggered . I have counted on his sincerity if not his emotional availability.

    I sent him a feeling message email .

    “I feel disappointed you decided not to come next week. I also feel let down because the service was this Sunday , not next (I was trying to see if I could send flowers ) and so I feel hurt you implied otherwise rather than explain what was really happening?

    Up until your text I was feeling happy about seeing you and relieved as well.
    I know you had good reasons for changing your plans .

    I will be thinking of you and your Mum this Sunday ”

    Of course I forgot to say what I dont want …insincerity ..

    Any tweaks or brief add on email or have I said too much?



  155.  #155Darling Ella on December 2, 2010 at 3:32 pm

    Gosh Rosa, big warm hug…

    It seems he did similar things like this before…being untruthful…it’s like deja vu again …that is why u disappointment is amplified…:(

    Probably what would hurt me even more is knowing he did it again when I was in a very vulnerable time of my life…:(

    I feel curious why u need to send him anything…send it to yourself…to him, I would use an awesome word I learned from Rori “Okay”…or “I don’t know “…nothing more or less…

    Big hug,



  156.  #156Soul Sista on December 2, 2010 at 3:46 pm

    rosa ~ awwwww…<<>>>

    “when am i going to learn?” i am learning along with you. i have read the book and just watched Commitment Blueprint and what i would say to you and myself is, this is what I learned in CB:

    ~ he did what he did and if you are at the point where you have all this time to think about what to email him back just don’t email him and if he emails you just say “OK” or “do what you want.” i say this because since he has done this sort of thing before…

    i just had to go through this with this guy…he kept stalling on coming to see me for 4 months at the begining of the year…making excuses and not following through. when we made up a few months later then what he pulled is “come stay with me for a week in Miami but fly your self out.” SLAP IN THE FACE! he KNOWS i’m broke. what a self-centered man!

    i let him treat me this way…i was always too avaialble to work on a last minute project for him when he was “desperate.” this was paramount to me going to his house and doing his laundry for him.

    it hurts…because i love him. but i am not contacting him, trying not to think about him and i’m getting ready to go take a hot bath.

    if you are still feeling upset and he contacts you i would suggest not contacting him, since this kind of thing has happened before, until you are feeling happy and taken care of – by you.

    he will call…just like my guy is going to call…it may be a couple weeks, less or more, but i’m not going to think about that..i need time to reclaim my vision of THE RELATIONSHIP I WANT.



  157.  #157Darling Ella on December 2, 2010 at 3:50 pm

    Sirens:

    I am in a big dilemma. So, I met this guy that I felt excited about getting to know…he is exotic (Turkish, Portuguese), charismatic, successful, appears open minded, smart conversations, in tune with the energy and spirit, but gosh, he is not of my faith…Christian…:(

    And I just found out…:( He had posted on his profile “Spiritual but not religious”…i feel deceived because he is practicing…

    I told myself earlier this year that I would only date Christian men (I used to be more open minded in the past)…

    Gosh, is the Universe trying to tell me something???

    I feel confused…yet, very intrigued…

    I feel concerned that my spirit would suffer…but does our spirit suffer if we don’t have matching religions or if we don’t have blending spirits and energies????



  158.  #158Mercedes on December 2, 2010 at 3:54 pm

    DE: J and I don’t even come close but he respects my beliefs and I respect his. This keeps my spirit from ever suffering and allows me to be with the love of my life. Respect. That’s key.

    Much Love,
    Mercedes



  159.  #159Rosa on December 2, 2010 at 3:57 pm

    Beautiful Hug EllaDarling,

    I know you are right. I felt a need to express some feelings because I seriously bottled them for years with him.

    I used to think he was honest through and through so i invested a lot of energy in him as honesty and integrity are my top Values. I realised over a long time he would subtly gloss over unpalatable realities.

    So this has been a big trigger ..confronting me on blind eyed wishful thinking ,and you are right Okay should be enough.

    I also wanted to openly call him on his behaviour because i know he will surface soon in Sydney and try and see me again.

    I dont feel good about that any more since he clearly let me down . I hope this keeps him away.

    Meanwhile I have put him back in the snack bag tied to my saddle, i am just not hungry at the moment for moldy crumbs 🙂



  160.  #160Darling Ella on December 2, 2010 at 3:57 pm

    Mercedes:

    Thank u…It feels good to hear that 🙂

    Hugs, Ella



  161.  #161Rosa on December 2, 2010 at 4:07 pm

    Soul Sista ,

    I so get that kind of guy .

    I thought 6 months no contact was enough , but no its not.

    Be careful when he comes back that you are full of life elsewhere and have forgotten his name and number.

    Whilst I did that G-man stayed away. but the minute I fell off my horse and into that hospital bed there he was again..with chocolates and shoulder massage and I actually beieive he is trying to keep me on the back burner for sex in case the GF dumps him ..or try and resume sex with me on the side .That is his past behaviour.

    i guess a leopard never changes its spots..

    Darling Ella , I think (in light of these experiences) that the answer depends on what he has to say when you ask him about his religious practices and his spirituality. Is he honest in addressing what was on his profile?????

    Is he hiding his faith???
    Why???

    AND does the faith come with cultural practices and belief systems deeply embedded in his family and social networks?? Eg position of women , education etc..



  162.  #162Lucy on December 2, 2010 at 4:17 pm

    DE — I feel confused about why you feel “deceived”….?



  163.  #163Jas on December 2, 2010 at 4:17 pm

    Ella 148 – Thanks, I will try to say this the next time he calls.



  164.  #164Soul Sista on December 2, 2010 at 4:17 pm

    rosa ~ thank you…i’m over beating myself up (for the moment LOL;) ) but i was being the sort of woman who wasn’t taking care of myself so he learned it from me..in OUR case. yes, he is like that but i know deep down inside he wants a woman to teach him…i wasn’t ready for that. and i wasn’t like that when we first met…i lost everything, home everything, in a scuffle with the government and i fell apart…but, i’m glad i did because i will never fall apart again.

    so, getting back to him contacting me…i am not opposed to things working out for us someday in the future but he will be waiting in line with the other men that will be trying to win my affection and competing with them.



  165.  #165Darling Ella on December 2, 2010 at 4:18 pm

    Rosa:

    Indeed many questions I have now…:) At first, I just wanted to tell him I won’t be meeting him because we have a big religious difference…yet, I feel he is a messenger and I feel curious about what the message is…so, unless I meet him I will never find out…

    And then again, I fear I am going to sabotage the natural course of this experience since in my book he has a big strike…

    I feel sooo sad…:( My chest feels heavy…
    I so wished the world won’t be soo divided…:( and by my beliefs I am contributing to it…:(



  166.  #166Simply Shannon on December 2, 2010 at 4:22 pm

    I keep jumping over here to post and have to run again…

    Darling Ella, I created a boundary for myself that I don’t want to date a man who is not a Christian. And even once we get past the title, I’m looking for signs that he has a relationship with God, i.e. not just a pew warmer at church. 😉 For me, this is a firm boundary. I do not want to be unevenly yoked. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. (Not knocking others’ choices, but that isn’t what I want.)

    I just had several back and forths with a guy about this today. Super cute but not a Christian. I would consider being his friend (might get a tattoo out of the deal!). Who knows, maybe God would use me to plant a seed with him. I don’t know. Slippery slope…

    Nope. I don’t want to fall in the trap again of worrying about the soul of the man I’m dating. [shakes head no vigorously]



  167.  #167Darling Ella on December 2, 2010 at 4:23 pm

    Lucy:

    On my profile I have my religious views as Christian…and I also emphasized being a Christian woman…

    He had posted “Spiritual, but not religious”…when I spoke to him about the holidays..he told me he celebrates Islam…I didn’t ask his reason(s) why he chose not to make it open to the public…part of me understands why…many women are prejudicial against it…seeing it as a form of suppression…etc…

    If I decide to meet him I will open the conversation…and see what it leads…

    Hugs,



  168.  #168Senior Lady Vibe on December 2, 2010 at 4:25 pm

    @153: Rosa says:

    “…let down…ANGER…G- Man…creatively moving the date of his Dads memorial service. I went online to check…I was sooooooo triggered . I have counted on his sincerity if not his emotional availability…”

    Oh, Rosa…I’m sad too… I hope you will let yourself come through for yourself. I believe you will…you came through that surgery; you can do anything. I know you will still be your wonderful goddess-y self no matter what.

    I like the words someone used on blog very recently:

    80: Soul Sista says:
    “…until i have the relationship i want…i am married to me…”

    also there was this which I’m wondering about…

    @154: Darling Ella says:
    “Gosh Rosa, big warm hug…
    I feel curious why u need to send him anything…send it to yourself…to him, I would use an awesome word I learned from Rori ‘Okay’…or ‘I don’t know ‘…nothing more or less…”

    DE,

    Could you tell more about this? Is there a Rori post on the blog with more explanation? There is power in words and I think I’m collecting some words and phrases which seem to convey feelings and the truth of a situation.

    And then there are these words which I heard my father say this summer (more than 30 years after his death…but I heard them…things had gotten kind of bad so I had to call on my father…)

    “He did what? He said WHAT?” “Son of a bitch!!” “He’s not good enough for you!”

    Maybe you will also find some good words to hold onto.

    But we don’t really know the whole story so I suppose keeping to our own program is the best thing.

    xoxoxo
    SLV



  169.  #169Lucy on December 2, 2010 at 4:29 pm

    Rosa, I feel bad that you are feeling so bad about G-man’s behavior. 🙁

    I noticed something, though, that might be a point of growth for you, unless I am misunderstanding this.

    You told us: “I went online to check , I could smell a rat..”

    But you told HIM: “(I was trying to see if I could send flowers )”

    While I don’t doubt that you were thinking about sending flowers, was that the real truth about how/why you found out about the date of the service? Or is the truth closer to what you told US (“I could smell a rat”)?

    So… when you say —

    “I have counted on his sincerity”

    and

    “I used to think he was honest through and through so i invested a lot of energy in him as honesty and integrity are my top Values. I realised over a long time he would subtly gloss over unpalatable realities.”

    … is he actually mirroring and revealing a bit of insincerity and lack of integrity in YOU?

    If so, the good news is that if you change this in yourself, the universe will no longer need to mirror it back to you! And men will be more and more honest and sincere with you!

    What do you think?

    <3
    Lucy

    p.s. Thanks for your encouraging words to me last night.



  170.  #170Darling Ella on December 2, 2010 at 4:33 pm

    SLV:

    These words are in the Commitment Blueprint program 🙂

    The words are about Boundaries for yourself and Respect for your man: “I don’t want…” and “What do you think?” and “Okay” and “I don’t know…”

    Hugs,



  171.  #171Darling Ella on December 2, 2010 at 4:36 pm

    Lucy: #168

    Wow…how revealing…Rori is discussing just that in the Commitment Blueprint program…Thank you for reminding me about it…

    I am thinking now…:(

    Hugs,



  172.  #172Rosa on December 2, 2010 at 4:37 pm

    SLV , Soul Sista mentions it in the blog

    ~ he did what he did and if you are at the point where you have all this time to think about what to email him back just don’t email him and if he emails you just say “OK” or “do what you want.” I think this is Roris from CB .

    Thank you SLV , I LOVE YOUR DAD .
    Maybe he has a few more words for the Sirens?

    And words are so powerful . I love NLP and doing more training later this year ..I love questions like
    “When were you deciding that ? ” for limiting decisions . I had made a “decision” that G had changed and was worth a trial. I asked myself the question and found I was deciding that when I was at my most vulnerable , physically , mentally and emotionally and therefore i need to let that decision go till i am well !!! 🙂 hes back in the crumb bag tied to the saddle 🙂



  173.  #173Lucy on December 2, 2010 at 4:38 pm

    Darling Ella, I can understand why you feel a lil deceived. However, if it were me, I wouldn’t put any fault or blame on him for those feelings bc I don’t see anything dishonest or deceitful about it. I know many sincere Christians who put “spiritual but not religious” in their profiles rather than “Christian” — bc they don’t see themselves as religious, tradition/doctrine-focused Christians, but more focused on the spirituality of following Jesus.

    What do you think?



  174.  #174Darling Ella on December 2, 2010 at 4:39 pm

    Simply Shannon:

    Yes, I read about your story and I totally relate to it…:(

    Thank you so much for sharing 🙂 I feel validated…

    Hugs,



  175.  #175Senior Lady Vibe on December 2, 2010 at 4:39 pm

    @169: Darling Ella says:

    “…These words are in the Commitment Blueprint program…
    The words are about Boundaries for yourself and Respect for your man: “I don’t want…” and “What do you think?” and “Okay” and “I don’t know…”

    Thanks, DE. I don’t have CB so I don’t truly understand the context. I’ll think about these words and maybe I’ll create my own way of using them.

    A hug back to you…
    SLV



  176.  #176Lucy on December 2, 2010 at 4:39 pm

    Oops. Forgot I couldn’t write J*sus. Went into moderation. Redo:

    Darling Ella, I can understand why you feel a lil deceived. However, if it were me, I wouldn’t put any fault or blame on him for those feelings bc I don’t see anything dishonest or deceitful about it. I know many sincere Christians who put “spiritual but not religious” in their profiles rather than “Christian” — bc they don’t see themselves as religious, tradition/doctrine-focused Christians, but more focused on the spirituality of following J*sus.

    What do you think?



  177.  #177Darling Ella on December 2, 2010 at 4:44 pm

    Lucy:

    Hmm…I feel weird answering 🙂 but I totally understand where u coming from 🙂

    Hugs,



  178.  #178Soul Sista on December 2, 2010 at 4:48 pm

    SLV ~ some context for “I don’t want…” and “What do you think?” and “Okay” and “I don’t know…” in Commitment Blueprint example is the guy is going to spend the holidays and leave his live in GF at home…he knows she won’t be OK with it but he “asks” her if it’s “OK” when he knows damn well she won’t like it. so, instead of her resisting him she is coached to just say something like “it feels icky, but do what you want.” because he just wants her to give him permission to do it but he needs to take responsibility, choose, then do what he wants.

    then, we get to decide how to respond moving forward. but, i would say that i guy would only do something like that because we have trained him that he can…i’m really hip to this now and i’m straight up a Siren now.



  179.  #179Lucy on December 2, 2010 at 4:52 pm

    Shannon, I recently came to the same decision about only dating Christians. I grew up in a Christian environment, and it was considered sinful to date non-Christians. After my divorce (from a Christian man), I experimented with dating non-Christians, thinking that couldn’t be any “worse” than being with a Christian man who was not living according to Christian values. And I found a lot of wonderful, moral, kind men. However, I eventually realized that I really really do want someone who shares my faith. I don’t know exactly why. WH was a big part of my coming to that realization. His Christian faith is a large part of the strength and safety and love and peace and joy I felt with him. As sentimental and mushy as his songs are, his presence — something in his spirit — feels like a rock. I want a good Christian man. Like my dad.



  180.  #180Deb on December 2, 2010 at 4:53 pm

    Wow wow wow! Sirens, IT’S WORKING!!!

    Mr. ShimSham (commitment-phobe according to him) now wants to have a real relationship! He’s taking me to his company’s xmas dinner where I will meet his parents this weekend!

    I just want to give myself a hug for being so brave and setting my boundary. We’ve been dating for a couple months, but after things finally got sexual (which was *so good* omigod he’s a STUD), I told him that I just can’t do a casual relationship. It’s just not in my nature. I knew I would get attached (because I liked him so much). I said I understood that he may leave and that he can take as long as he wants to decide if he wants to commit to me…

    Well, he went away on his trip, came back, and BAM! he got brave and stepped up!

    It took so much bravery and self-assured-ness for me to draw that line. Thank you thank you thank you Rori and all the beautiful Sirens of this blog!

    Sirens, I know you will understand when I tell you this is SO DIFFERENT for me and means just so much. I don’t know what the outcome will be but I am just so happy to know that the answer to my problems really does lie within myself 🙂

    …he did mention that he caught the garter at the wedding he went to while he was away… think that’s the universe calling anyone? hehehe!

    Now… what do I do with my other serious CD, Shag (the marine)? We have plans to attend all sorts of xmas parties together… ick… it feels bad to think about having this conversation with him. He is so smitten with me. Truth is, I felt overwhelmed at times. I don’t feel that he really “gets me” like ShimSham does…

    Ok, just sharing, thanks!



  181.  #181Senior Lady Vibe on December 2, 2010 at 4:55 pm

    @171: Rosa says:
    “Thank you SLV , I LOVE YOUR DAD .
    Maybe he has a few more words for the Sirens?”

    Yes, there is more…I would go to bed and in the dark have little talks with him. There’s this…

    “Stop crying, go to the kitchen and get a dish of ice cream and bring me one too…”

    This one might not be too good because I do tend to eat ice cream too much and I’m a wee bit “chubby” but it never hurt my father who had a “six pack” all his life…into his late 70s.

    This one is good: “Hold your head up and strut yourself someplace else and don’t even worry about him.”

    That one sounds almost “siren like.” Yeah, I’m doing that one. I like to strut. 😆 But, uh-oh, I do the ice cream one too… 😆 But it’s amazing…it does make me feel better but I’m now substituting fruit more often or a lemonade, or even diet soda on crushed ice (yes, I know poison… but so is that hormone thing!…)

    SLV



  182.  #182Rosa on December 2, 2010 at 5:01 pm

    Aha Lucy ,

    Yes I read that back after i posted it and I immediately picked my inconsistency.It surprised me as it was not a conscious thing. I triggered myself.

    I am a friend of his Mums and I was unable to attend the funeral or have contact due to the major melt down with G-man at that time. I emailed her back then and apologised. I wanted to send flowers now mainly for her. I was looking up the hospice for that reason BUT part of me indeed whispered ,” yes and double check the date for delivery because his text message just said it was on “that Sunday”(checking up on him was definitely on the conscious agenda by the time I got to there in my thinking but I was still shocked to read the dates.)

    So I think you are right and I unconsciously was trying to prove to myself he was letting me down , while consciously I was trying to support Anne, his Mum. Thing is she wants to see me too in the next 3 weeks when she is in the country. Its all so awkward.

    And as to the Universe mirroring , I totally agree.
    And I think by emailing my feelings this was a big step forward for me to tell him honestly I was disappointed , hurt etc .In the past I would have blamed. My omission was to NOT say ,”and I was scared that you had lied to me and was shocked to read the date when i checked”

    I said to him I dont want to have half truths between us and he must do what he wants.

    Also I am sending the flowers to Anne at her home now , THIS Sunday, not next.

    So ..its all good learning.

    I love what unconscious mind DOES to get our attention ..Yiiikes ! I think my UCM was smelling the rat , intuition, negative energy , whatever, and my CM wanted desperately for this week with him to be perfect and was thinking about flowers. sighhhh



  183.  #183Rosa on December 2, 2010 at 5:08 pm

    Deb ,

    ALARM bells ringing!!!! I feel worried and icky that you want to stop dating.

    Why get rid of CD ??

    You dont have marriage plans yet do you? I am sorry if I misunderstood . But what has he stepped up into?

    You sound like you are leaping with two feet into the Girl friend Trap. I hope I have this wrong.

    It would feel good to me to read that you are moving towards the relationship you want right now and will continue to CD till you get the total commitment you want (if thats whats on the table here ..)



  184.  #184Rosa on December 2, 2010 at 5:09 pm

    Deb , Hi to you ,

    I love to read happy siren stories.

    ALARM bells ringing!!!! I feel worried and icky that you want to stop dating.

    Why get rid of CD ??

    You dont have marriage plans yet do you? I am sorry if I misunderstood . But what has he stepped up into?

    You sound like you are leaping with two feet into the Girl friend Trap. I hope I have this wrong.

    It would feel good to me to read that you are moving towards the relationship you want right now and will continue to CD till you get the total commitment you want (if thats whats on the table here ..)



  185.  #185Senior Lady Vibe on December 2, 2010 at 5:12 pm

    @176: Soul Sista

    Thanks, Soul Sista

    You said:
    …“asks” her if it’s “OK”…… because he just wants her to give him permission to do it …”

    I’m familiar with that, “you’re OK, right?” because if the guy is half way decent, he also wants to feel good about himself and not like he’s a jerk which he really is. The problem being of course that he’s only “half way decent…”

    SLV



  186.  #186Darling Ella on December 2, 2010 at 5:13 pm

    SLV:

    I am smiling reading about your dad’s words of wisdom…because I remember about my mom’s words of wisdom…LOL

    She is passionate and so righteous…when I would be down because of “love”…she would curse him on my behalf…(not to his face…of course), she would say…”How dare he?” “Who does he think he is”…”Keep u head up…be proud of who u are…”etc…and she would also have this way of remembering something defective about the guy (e.g., his nose, or how he would talk)…and right in these moments she would bring them to the surface…her thoughts about the them…

    Gosh, I admit it was therapeutic somehow, cause the next time I would think of him, I would now see the “defect”…LOL…and I would regain my posture…:)

    I need to bring my mom for a visit …i need damage control …and a shoulder to cry on…like a little girl…LOL

    Thank you for sharing SLV 🙂



  187.  #187Darling Ella on December 2, 2010 at 5:15 pm

    Deb:

    I feel very happy for you…:) Yay!!! I feel encouraged hearing good news too…

    Hugs,



  188.  #188Senior Lady Vibe on December 2, 2010 at 5:18 pm

    @182: Rosa says:

    “Deb ,
    …But what has he stepped up into?…”

    I wondered what this was when I read it. Did I miss something? What is different now? Was he having sex with other women and stopped?

    SLV



  189.  #189Darling Ella on December 2, 2010 at 5:23 pm

    SLV #186:

    I am cracking up at your sense of humor…LOL…

    Deb,

    We love you and really want you to keep holding onto the saddle…:) We want marriage for you, of course if u want to…:)

    Warm hugs,



  190.  #190Senior Lady Vibe on December 2, 2010 at 5:23 pm

    @DE

    Thanks for your kind words. I think we are always under the protection of our parents even if they don’t always do the right thing to our way of thinking. Mine got on my nerves sometimes… 😯

    SLV



  191.  #191Soul Sista on December 2, 2010 at 5:27 pm

    I want marriage!! and I want 2 more kids, too…I’m 43 Earth years but honestly I’m more like AT LEAST 33 and some guys think i’m still in my 20’s…it’s in the genes and i exercise a lot.

    i almost started freaking out because of my age…but, thankfully i can start over NOW and this doesn’t have to take a long time!

    i’m afraid to give birth again (son is 25) tho and i want to do it naturally at home in water…AM I CRAZY???? LOL!



  192.  #192Darling Ella on December 2, 2010 at 5:31 pm

    Soul Sista: #189

    U ain’t crazy!!! U are HOT!!!

    Hugs,



  193.  #193Lucy on December 2, 2010 at 5:35 pm

    I’m 48 and would’ve loved to have more children but lost the necessary parts to cancer. BUT — if I find a man to marry, I would love to adopt hard-to-place children or be foster parents. <3



  194.  #194Soul Sista on December 2, 2010 at 5:36 pm

    THANK YOU LADIES! I’m laughing and crying at the same time 🙂 LOL



  195.  #195Senior Lady Vibe on December 2, 2010 at 5:41 pm

    @187: Darling Ella says:

    “SLV #186:
    I am cracking up at your sense of humor…LOL…”

    No!!!! DE. No joke! 😯 I have apparently missed something. I meant if this was an “exclusivity” arrangement…sex was mentioned. I do try to find the humour in things even bittersweet things but nothing funny here. Maybe the question was too blunt. I am not at all laughing. If Deb is happy, I’m happy for her. Very happy.

    But I’m confused. Not important. I just don’t get all the steps, haven’t dated in decades, literally! It dawned on me that I’ve not had a serious relationship with a man over the age of 40 and now

    I’m…

    wondering if I’m trapped in geezerville.

    I’d tell the experience I had today but it’s too depressing, maybe later. Suffice it to say, I don’t know how to use “feeling messages” when I’m on the spot and all I could think to say was “I feel you are a boring old fart and cheap too.” At least I realized this was a thought and not a feeling so I didn’t say anything.

    SLV



  196.  #196Soul Sista on December 2, 2010 at 5:44 pm

    how do you put a pic on here?



  197.  #197Darling Ella on December 2, 2010 at 5:48 pm

    Soul Sista:

    U need to create an account on gravatar…

    http://en.gravatar.com/site/login



  198.  #198Darling Ella on December 2, 2010 at 5:51 pm

    SLV:

    #193: Gosh I hope I didn’t offend you…:( U remind me of the British humor…very settle…:) My mistake for misreading u intention…yet, I feel u as being graciously adorable and witty smart lady 🙂

    Hugs,



  199.  #199Isis on December 2, 2010 at 6:15 pm

    Darling Ella: I agree about the elderly. I think it is good to have extended family; if they are in good health they usually help with the children, and it is good for the kids. I also feel it is vital for the elderly to have people around them, things going on… to continue life. When you lose your dreams, stop talking to people, aren’t able to get out.. you just let go..

    Also I am so glad you could be there for your son to give physical contact. I also think that is important.

    I also wish for a community like you say with more contact, giving of time, support, touch, etc. It is important, especially for me. I thrive on affection and encouraging words. It would feel nice to feel cared for by others sometimes.

    I like your mom’s pointing out a defect in a guy that had hurt you. It’s almost an NLP thing, creating a visual to go along with that experience… helping you regain your balance. hmm. interesting. I may use this…

    Daria: I liked your vision about a goddess in the woods, who stays there and people come to see her. That was you that brought that up previously, right? I have trouble keeping up with all the posts here. Your thoughts and advice inspire me.

    Jas: I would limit the phone calls to 10 minutes or less. You don’t want a phone buddy. 🙂 I also like Ella’s suggestion to use feeling messages.

    Lucy: about christian men. I used to not understand why this mattered. However now I do understand that others do not always hold the same values that create a loving and stable relationship… I realize this is very general and vague but I need to think about it more to be more specific. Additionally it also feels good to have someone who shares your faith. Even if it is accepted, it is not the same as when it is embraced in a way that you two share your thoughts about it, or pray together, etc.
    Also I have a very determined faith, and do my best to apply the principles I have learned from the bible. It says that “anything done without faith is a sin”.
    The best definition I have for “sin” is that sin is anything that takes you further away from love. “God is love”. When you are going through a difficult time, for example, you can either let that difficulty harden you towards god, or you can allow it to give you an opportunity to have faith in God and let him show you what He will do for you.
    So- when you are not having faith, you are taking the first choice- moving further away from God. Who is love. So sin is something that separates you from love/God.
    I believe that I am divinely taken care of. I ask for God’s guidance in my life and know that he will orchestrate things, and I believe that as long as I am acting from love and doing my best to obey- “love encompasses all other laws” – then even when I make a mistake, I will be protected from it and moved to a better place. I have been laid off more than once in the past two years. I have had several situations which have kept me from earning the money I would like to earn. I want to contribute to my family in every way including financially. Although I haven’t had the income I would like, I have definitely been pushed back into my spiritual life, which keeps my heart, my thoughts, my attitude and feelings on track. I haven’t made the money I’d like but I have also kept everything I have, and my bills have been paid somehow. I know the money will come when I need it. However my partner does not employ this faith, he believes it all rests on his own shoulders. I feel sad for him. He gets freaked out about it. It causes fights. he criticizes me about it and is angry. I have learned to sometimes avoid falling into this pit of anger and criticism, not taking the bait.. but it’s not easy. And the situation is still not resolved. So something as small as this causes … arguments about money … which is one of the biggest problem in marriages, according to things I hear. Fights about money. In addition, money is NOT the most important thing in my world. To him it is the end all of everything. To me, I do what I love and the money will follow. “you can not serve two masters”….



  200.  #200Isis on December 2, 2010 at 6:16 pm

    Hm. the line breaks in my last message didn’t work, sorry it’s all crowded together. I’d like to make it easier to read.



  201.  #201Darling Ella on December 2, 2010 at 6:23 pm

    Isis:

    Beautiful said 🙂 Thank you…Please refresh my memory, but is it u who shares my love for Marianne Williamson’s work such as…A return to Love …based on A Course in Miracles?

    Warm hugs,



  202.  #202Isis on December 2, 2010 at 6:44 pm

    So my man-i-live-with has been really irritable lately. Due to money issues and apparently my encroaching on his freedom to play around with others. He insists that we have an open relationship. He cheated on me a couple times (when he decided he was through and going to see others, yet treated me like a girlfriend, said ILY, had sex, asked me before doing things, etc- and HID these “others” from me- so yes i think it was cheating.) before officially calling it “open”. All regardless of the fact that at times he even calls me his wife. (Pay attention to actions not words).

    For the longest time I resisted this. He has attempted to make this status official by requesting I agree to this on my facebook status, and by his communications to others. I have noticed that when I am not forcing him to do anything, he resists less and goes in my direction. So when he suggested this status change a few months ago I accepted. I thought it was a good opportunity to see what he would do. So I accepted his relationship request on facebook. The funny thing is, although in the beginning he pushed to flirt and play, kiss others sometimes, he has done nothing in a long time. He verbally maintains his freedom but again, just like the first year of our relationship, we live as if in an exclusive relationship. Interesting.

    Lately he has gotten all irritable again, due to the fact that I haven’t gotten enough work yet in the 3 months since the end of my break while having my baby. When the baby was a month and a half old, we also confirmed what was suspected, which was that the baby is not his. He is very sad about this, probably in some way also relieved about it at the same time.. a mix of emotions. He really was upset by this, so much so that he considered going to a therapist. Even though he was seeing someone else the ENTIRE time I was pregnant. ?! I guess he had gotten used to the idea and truly wanted it.

    Anyway he’s gotten all crabby lately and even said I should move out, we had a big fight about an interaction with the girl he’d been seeing, on thanksgiving night, and he ended up taking a trip to see our (his) family in a city four hours away, without me. He has been asking for a “break” and I am not sure what exactly that entails, but I don’t have anywhere to go, and I have told him I don’t take “breaks” i’m just done if I leave. He doesn’t want that so he hasn’t pushed so much, but I really would take a break if I had somewhere to go. Since I don’t, Instead I have been leaning back to give him space. Trying to fill my schedule with other people/things to do. It’s hard since we both work from home a lot, we see each other a lot. Now that I have the baby I can’t just up and go to a coffee shop to work, with the baby.

    Anyway, I quit doing his laundry. He noticed. One day he offered to fold laundry (which he NEVER does!!!!! if he does it is only HIS laundry that he folds.)… He had gone through it, and I guess noticed none of it was his, and did not fold it, but left it laying out on the table.
    He never commented on this and neither did I. hehe. I feel sly.
    Next time I did a load of laundry, he asked “what did you wash for me??” I said nothing. I didn’t know you wanted anything washed. No response.

    I washed another load of laundry this week, and folded it in front of him. (While he was on the phone with our friends talking about a NYE trip to san fransisco that he wants to go on without ME, with OUR friends. And a guy who is NOT a good influence on our relationship. A trip I REALLY wanted to go on, and he kept bringing up that night- like I wanted to talk about how much HIS return flight was going to cost or all the fun to be had.) He said nothing about the laundry.

    This morning, he put in a load of his own laundry himself. (I started separating my laundry into my own laundry basket.)

    I dried it, and a roommate dumped it on his bed so he could use the dryer.

    I am wondering how he is interpreting this….?

    All the stress about not being the baby’s father, and the baby’s biological father coming into town, knowing I have always cared for him, and also the money situation, has definitely put stress on our situation.

    I’ve been trying to lean back where I can find a place to….

    I’ve been treating him more like a friend, maybe not well, but trying.. some suggestions would help. We have sex about once a week. He has a low libido, 40 years old, and we used to have sex once a day at least when we started seeing each other, but i think he was taking medications then sometimes. he still does once in a while, but they are expensive, $20 a pill.

    I am not sure it’s “leaning back” exactly but more out of irritation, I have even started falling asleep in the living room sometimes as opposed to how i used to ask him to come to bed when he would fall asleep in the living room. And I have stopped waking up to take showers in the morning with him, because he stopped putting my towel out with his. I told him this, and he said he likes the time to himself. I told him why i was sleeping in the living room- that i was sad.. and that it seemed like he wanted to be alone sometimes, so i let him be alone. he said thank you.

    now this week… he is more attentive. he calls to help figure out what to make for dinner.. or just to check in. he texts me to let me know what he is doing.

    nice.

    i am going to go make food but i will come back later.. I would like to ask you all your advice about my potential christmas plans.



  203.  #203Katnina on December 2, 2010 at 7:04 pm

    Big big hugs to you Rosa! Nina (my pup) sends wet nose kisses to you & Max. Did G-man respond to your email? How do you feel? I think it’s good that you expressed your feelings to him-I tweaked it a little (this is practice for me), what do you think?

    “I feel disappointed you decided not to come next week.
    I also feel surprised, angry, & let down because I learned the service was this Sunday , not next (I was trying to see if I could send flowers). I want people I care about to be truthful with me. what do you think?”
    you can always use the “I want people I care about to be truthful with me” line when he contacts you next.
    It feels safer for me to express wants vs don’t wants. (ie I feel safer saying “I want truthfulness vs I don’t want insincerity). babysteps!

    Had a 2nd date last weekend with a match.com guy- he was really nice, took me to a really nice vegan restaurant (his roommate recommended it since I am vegan), ordered my wine (i feel special when they do that!), and was a total gentleman, but he kept touching me (like touching my arm in conversation and putting his hand on my back when we were walking) and I didnt feel attracted to him so i stiffened rather than melted. it felt bad. I tried to keep listening at level 2 and opening myself to him, but i felt drained and exhausted. then he kissed me when we said goodbye and i felt “Ick!”. the thought of seeing him feels draining. He’s out of town this weekend so I don’t have to worry about saying no for now at least since i feel bad rejecting people.
    His message = I deserve a man who treats me well, thinks of my wants/needs, and makes an effort. Also, physical attraction for me is really important (i was kind of eh about his profile pic but wanted to see if i felt an attraction in person). It doesnt need to be instant chemistry but i don’t want to feel “ick!” when a man kisses me. I want to feel “wow!” or “ooh this is nice”

    Sirens- any advice on how to say no to dates when asked out again and you just aren’t feeling it?

    This weekend, I am supposed to be meeting another guy from the internet Saturday afternoon (but he said he would contact me with firm plans and hasn’t yet, i dont really care as i could use a nap Saturday afternoon since I am going to 2 tree-trimming parties Saturday night!)
    And Friday night, I am going to my best friend’s engagement party and a super cute guy who I’ve known for almost a year will be there. i’ll call him phishman since he loves Phish
    I met him thru her & her fiance, they’ve been trying to set us up since February when we all went to hang out at his apartment, we had a drunk kiss that night & I ended up throwing up all over his bathroom thanks to too much pear vodka (ewww), he asked me out in May when we saw each other at a bday party & I rejected him bc i thought he was kidding bc how could he be attracted to me after i threw up all over his apartment?!, I tried to set him up with a friend of mine in June (they didnt like each other), then we made out after his birthday party a month ago and i realized I’m really attracted to him. I was fighting it so hard but there it is!
    Last Saturday, he asked my friend’s fiance if I will be at the party so we’ll see if he makes a move. I plan on using all the Modern Siren Tools I have just learned to remain open and confident!
    phishman also mentioned to my friend’s fiance how difficult it has been for him to trust since his ex-fiance cheated on him 4 years ago- he’s been a total player since then so who knows what will happen. but it feels good to hear that he is talking about it with his men friends- because talking is the first step of healing.
    i realize i am jumping ahead of myself here, but knowing he has issues with trusting women, i feel worried about CD’ing him. But that is his stuff, not mine, and i don’t have to worry about him, i have to pay attention to ME!



  204.  #204Darling Ella on December 2, 2010 at 7:05 pm

    Isis:

    I was married to someone who made me feel like a doormat…and humiliated me by forcing me to have sex with him (marital rape)…Well, I feel u being trapped because of the financial situation…and for having feelings for him…(maybe feeling sorry for him??? i know i did for mine…)

    Have you look into women’s shelters or local churches who have facilities for u and u baby?

    I feel happy to hear u find strenght in God’s love and seek his guidance…leaving on faith…

    I remembered asking God for Mercy on my knees and begging for another chance; telling him my deepest thoughts…not pleasant as I recall…thinking abortion…and asking for forgiveness…I asked Him to take my baby…That was 8 years ago…while pregnant and physically abused/emotionally by my ex husband…

    I was 10 weeks pregnant…thinking of abortion…taking my own life…yet, I had my son fighting for his life in the next room…and no way out…no job for three years, medical bills to be paid…no knowledge about who i could help, and on top of it…an SOB threatening to kill me…

    And u know what??? God heard me…The following day, my period came and at the ultrasound…no baby…just the empty grown uterus…(they been monitoring me since conception…)

    So, having my own testimonies…it is sooo difficult to not Believe …and this is not my only one…

    I will pray for you to find guidance and strength in His power to change things in your life…but my question to u is…Are u Ready????

    Warm hugs,

    Ella



  205.  #205Senior Lady Vibe on December 2, 2010 at 7:05 pm

    @198: Isis says:
    “Hm. the line breaks in my last message didn’t work, sorry it’s all crowded together. I’d like to make it easier to read.”

    I don’t code the breaks, I just hit enter twice. The white space does make it easier for me to read.

    SLV



  206.  #206Katnina on December 2, 2010 at 7:10 pm

    SLV- I love your dad’s wise words!! My good friend’s grandfather has a wise saying also:
    “When a man shows you his character, believe him.”

    I know that people can turn on a dime, and people can be inspired to change, but this saying resonates with me-because I used to try to only see the good in a man and hope and hope for change of other behaviors, but completely miss the glaring red character flags a-waving in the wind.



  207.  #207Senior Lady Vibe on December 2, 2010 at 7:10 pm

    @196: Darling Ella says:
    “SLV:
    #193: Gosh I hope I didn’t offend you…:( U remind me of the British humor…”

    Oh, no DE not at all. And I’m not a Brit, I’m American. Sometimes I am subconsciously funny because I tend to find the humour in things but I no way make fun of people…well most of the time I don’t…occasionally I’m naughty… 😆

    And I don’t mind laughing at myself and my situations either, makes it more fun sometimes.

    SLV



  208.  #208Senior Lady Vibe on December 2, 2010 at 7:14 pm

    @197: Isis says:
    “Darling Ella: I agree about the elderly. I think it is good to have extended family; if they are in good health they usually help with the children,…”

    Speaking for the elderly I think there should be less “helping with the children” and more music, dancing and sex. IMHO of course.

    SLV



  209.  #209Rachel on December 2, 2010 at 7:19 pm

    Ladies….

    I just heard from soccer dad … first time in almost 3 weeks. I have been leaning back except for one short note over a week ago … he’s a forest ranger and has been involved in a 2 week search for a missing hiker who still hasn’t been found. I sent a little note to say I was thinking of the searchers and praying.

    Tonight, I got this, “Sorry, I haven’t gotten back to you. But the search and events in my personal life have been less than positive”

    I don’t know what to write back! It doesn’t feel like he’s inviting anything further … but I don’t want to not respond. I feel glad to hear from him and I feel like saying I’m sorry things have been tough … but I don’t know if that would seem like I’m mothering him…

    Any ideas?



  210.  #210Darling Ella on December 2, 2010 at 7:25 pm

    SLV #206:

    Gosh, i so recommend watching the Commitment Blueprint program…I love the presentation about the sensual dance…poll dancing…:)

    If u were in Portland, I would take u out to experience …some nice cocktail lounges with piano and awesome views…sensual nite clubs, etc…

    Hugs,



  211.  #211Katnina on December 2, 2010 at 7:30 pm

    Rachel, I’m new to this so this is practice for me, what about:
    “It feels good to hear from you. Hoping things get better.”
    or
    “I am sorry to hear that. It feels good to hear from you though. I hope things go better for you this week.”

    what do you think?



  212.  #212Senior Lady Vibe on December 2, 2010 at 7:34 pm

    @208: Darling Ella says:
    “SLV #206:
    Gosh, i so recommend watching the Commitment Blueprint program…I love the presentation about the sensual dance…poll dancing…:) …”

    I was thinking more of ballroom dancing–actually more like snap your fingers and sway….just having a party kind of dancing and sex with a romantic partner, rather than pole dancing. But now that you’ve mentioned it, pole dancing could be fun too, and good exercise. 😀

    SLV



  213.  #213Senior Lady Vibe on December 2, 2010 at 7:38 pm

    @Rachel

    I think what you just wrote that you felt seems OK to send…

    “I feel glad to hear from him and…I’m sorry things have been tough … “

    SLV



  214.  #214Darling Ella on December 2, 2010 at 7:46 pm

    SLV:

    I don’t know how to pole dance but like u I find it very intriguing 🙂

    And ballroom…gosh, I have a feeling u know more than u are telling me…I am open to new experiences 🙂



  215.  #215Darling Ella on December 2, 2010 at 7:56 pm

    I wonder where is my fellow Dacian, Daria???? I miss her 🙂



  216.  #216Senior Lady Vibe on December 2, 2010 at 7:57 pm

    212: Darling Ella says:
    “SLV:
    And ballroom…gosh, I have a feeling u know more than u are telling me…I am open to new experiences ..”

    I can’t ballroom…I wish. Dance lessons are on my wish list.

    SLV



  217.  #217Rosa on December 2, 2010 at 8:20 pm

    Rachel@ 207

    I would suggest something like we were talking about earlier .

    “Okay.

    Hoping every thing settles soon for you. ”

    I think any reference to more contact is leany forward in this circumstance as he has NOT mentioned it himself . Staying leaned back keeps the energy gap there . You already made your interest clear by your brief not a week ago to which he was replying.



  218.  #218Rosa on December 2, 2010 at 8:36 pm

    Katnina @ 204
    I totally echo and endorse your words!
    That is so ME TOO …

    “I know that people can turn on a dime, and people can be inspired to change, but this saying resonates with me-because I used to try to only see the good in a man and hope and hope for change of other behaviors, but completely miss the glaring red character flags a-waving in the wind.”

    Seeing the best in people and believing in their potential is very difficult for me to separate from Not seeing the bad in people(the red flags) and not believing they can hurt me (going with the evidence).

    And NOT recognising a pattern and withdrawing from my part in that dynamic early enough is the other thing I need to work on …

    I am going to try some NLP on myself here ..
    “Rosa , when you are no longer not hoping for the old beliefs to disprove themselves, how soon could you potentially feel comfortable just trusting those feelings and feeling the trust even now? ”

    Hmm not bad ..



  219.  #219Daria on December 2, 2010 at 8:44 pm

    Here I … I tried to walk to take the bus to sign up for GA from the welfare office but I missed the bus I walked so many miles hehe and eventually I made it to tutoring tonite and now I’m at barnes and noble I asked my mom to pick me up cuz I’m Feelin tired to walk back same miles… Feelin tired and good. Got the train! Hehe



  220.  #220Rosa on December 2, 2010 at 8:44 pm

    SLV now I REALLY love your Dad ,

    As a firm believer in the therapeutic power of ice cream shared , postural therapy and strutting , he could almost be an Honorary Siren Adviser!

    Katnina . It sounds interesting indeed , the weekend you have planned. I look forward to hearing about what a Goddess Rocking time you have !!!



  221.  #221Brenda on December 2, 2010 at 9:12 pm

    Darling Ella,

    RE: #120 – Ryan laid on his side gazing at me through “I said I loved you, but I lied” and half of a Michael Bolton album. Just steady eye contact and no words. It was heavy duty love vibes, and I laid on my side and gazed back silently. It was one of the most romantic, intimate moments of my life! I love Michael Bolton’s music and lyrics!



  222.  #222Darling Ella on December 2, 2010 at 9:18 pm

    Brenda:

    Amazing…I feel happy hearing ab u experience 🙂

    Big warm hug…:)



  223.  #223Katnina on December 2, 2010 at 9:22 pm

    Rosa, yes i hope it will be a good weekend! Part of me wants to cancel all the Saturday plans and curl up with my pup and a book all day, but I am choosing to go out and be social instead. I’ve spent too much time hibernating, it’s time for me to be social, even when it’s scary!
    Has Gman responded to your email? Are your other CD’s stepping up?



  224.  #224Brenda on December 2, 2010 at 9:27 pm

    I went 23 days without contacting Ryan! He finally texted me last night! For the most part, I stayed with my nonchalant stance. I waited over 2 hrs before I even responded. Next time I’ll probably wait even longer. It’s not game-playing. It’s strategizing and keeping my degree of difficulty high.

    R: Hey
    B: Silent for 2.25 hrs, then Hello!
    R: How are you?
    B: Good! How are you?
    R: Alright, I’m just listening to the radio. Laying low tonight.
    B: Silent (hehehe)
    R: How about you?
    B: I was with friends.
    R: Who were you with?
    B: No one you know. Just friends
    R: Oh ok. Did you make some new friends?
    B: Yeah! How about you?
    R: No not really
    B: 🙁
    R: Sometimes I have a difficult time making friends.
    B: Yeah I remember. And to me you were like meeting another alien of my kind for the 1st time. 🙂 We understood each other! I am understanding more all the time how to relate and listen, really listen. 🙂
    [I realize I overdid it a bit here]
    R: That’s good. 🙂
    B: 🙂
    R: Have you been going to my church?
    B: Yes! It’s one of the best churches I ever went to! Thank you so much for introducing me to it! Have you found a good church in your new town?
    [I made up for humiliating myself last time]
    R: No I haven’t been going much.
    B: Ok, sorry to hear that.
    R: Yeah, I’ll go when I can.

    I stayed silent, even tho I was so tempted to keep the conversation going! I felt delighted this morning (Thu) when he texted me again!

    R: Sorry I forgot to say good night last night.
    B: Awww! Good night and good morning! I am with Chris at the hospital, and she is getting (an outpatient procedure).
    R: Ok…well I’ll talk to you later. I pray all goes well with her.
    B: I just found out they weren’t able to complete it and she will have to come back in 2 weeks.
    R: Ok

    I guess I shouldn’t have gone into the medical bit. But he knows her, cuz she hung out with us a lot when we were together as a couple.

    All in all, it felt very empowering, and I felt his openness and coming my direction more than he has in a long time! I feel really excited and happy!



  225.  #225Brenda on December 2, 2010 at 9:30 pm

    (((Darling Ella))),

    Thank you! Hugs to you, too! 🙂



  226.  #226Brenda on December 2, 2010 at 9:34 pm

    Lucy,

    Congratulations on being clear of all cancer! What a reason to celebrate!!

    Everyone else…as usual, I just don’t have the time and energy to keep up with the blog, as much as I would like to!

    Hugs to all of your beautiful hearts!!

    (((Love)))
    Brenda



  227.  #227Rosa on December 2, 2010 at 9:34 pm

    Welcome back Brenda!
    Did you get the modem working?

    I would like to share with Sirens another of my favourite NLP tools ,

    I never get to the end of this one without losing it completely ..the problem that is , the one I cant remember what I was going to work on exactly in the past especially when I go ahead to a time in the future when i no longer have the problem …

    errr…

    The only thing with this I am unable to commit it to memory , my soft wear is so scrambled by these word codes ..

    OK Here goes.. TIME SCRAMBLE – think of the problem first , any problem- feel free to substitute your problem . (My problem is being in a loop with G- man which always ends with me feeling hurt and dishonoured- I want to keep riding my horse, JUST NOT ON A MERRY_GO_ROUND )

    Go inside and try in vain to have the same Problem.

    It was a terrible Problem, wasn’t it?

    You want to make changes
    haven’t you?

    what would it be like when you have made those changes, now?

    In the future as you look back and. see what it was like to have had that problem ,as you think about it now, if you could make this change for yourself ,so that you could STOP…having made that
    change and see Yourself now

    Do you like the way you look if you could-make that change and look back at yourself having made that change now!



  228.  #228Darling Ella on December 2, 2010 at 9:35 pm

    Gosh Brenda, thank u for sharing…I am always looking to see how other Sirens deal with these situations…I am learning to use Silence…and really appreciate it…for me…not for him…

    And about strategizing…well, I hear about being truthful and showing our feelings…but gosh, maybe to people we are safe to…but someone we love in romantic way….well, i am all for strategizing even if that means withholding feelings/info…till it feels right to me to do so…another one of my emo these days is …”don’t volunteer info” unless u are asked…

    Hugs, Ella



  229.  #229Daria on December 2, 2010 at 9:40 pm

    Rori is NOT for strategizing.

    however, leaning back is NOT strategizing



  230.  #230Brenda on December 2, 2010 at 9:41 pm

    Darling Ella,

    My pleasure! Thanks for your feedback! This has been a long, slow, painful lesson for me. I am learning the dynamics of relationships…emotional intelligence…knowing what to say, when to say it, and how to say it.

    Next time I might wait overnight to respond. Not sure yet.

    Rosa,

    Thanks for asking! My desktop is connected, but still very slow. A friend is coming to look at my whole system and help me make it better.

    I got a claim open today for unemployment, and I am jobhunting my little heart out.

    I feel really good about managing my life, and little by little, things are getting under control. I also feel good about how supported I am, by my friends here on the blog, locally, and at church!



  231.  #231Lucy on December 2, 2010 at 9:44 pm

    bren, very cool about ryan! 🙂



  232.  #232Darling Ella on December 2, 2010 at 9:44 pm

    Daria:

    Beautiful Daria 🙂 Happy to hear u voice 🙂 I always appreciate u feedback and more so u insights as to why so…:)

    Big warm hug 🙂



  233.  #233Brenda on December 2, 2010 at 9:44 pm

    Daria,

    Maybe I didn’t choose exactly the right words. Suffice it to say how I handled it was a hell of a lot better than overfunctioning and pouring myself on him!

    It is coming from a position of strength, and not allowing him to take me for granted. I gave him the gift of missing me.



  234.  #234Brenda on December 2, 2010 at 9:47 pm

    Lucy,

    Thank you! That 23 days is the longest I’ve gone yet not contacting him. I finally get it. I finally understand the basics of what to do and what not to do.

    I really do see it as strategizing to a point. LIke when you play a chess game, you position yourself depending on where the other player is positioned. To me, it is an awareness of where the other person is. That is a new skill for me this past 1.5 yrs since finding Rori.

    Before I was like playing catch with a man and hurling the ball for all I was worth, with little regard for where he was standing. I would either bowl him over or send it way beyond him, where he would run away from me, not towards me.



  235.  #235Soul Sista on December 2, 2010 at 9:52 pm

    Strategizing: I don’t see it as strategizing at all. I see it as reclaiming my feminine power. It feels sucky to lean forward, it always does and never gets us what we want…so why do we do it?

    by learning how to lean back and practicing we are PRACTICING how to be alignment with being feminine until we really are – and attractive to our men – which is what we really want!

    i really needed to hear that…LOL!



  236.  #236Katnina on December 2, 2010 at 9:53 pm

    Brenda- “It is coming from a position of strength, and not allowing him to take me for granted. I gave him the gift of missing me.”

    I loooooove how you expressed this! It shows such strength, presence, and confidence.



  237.  #237Soul Sista on December 2, 2010 at 9:55 pm

    Brenda: “It is coming from a position of strength, and not allowing him to take me for granted. I gave him the gift of missing me.”

    I’m gonna tattoo that on my forehead! ;-P



  238.  #238Brenda on December 2, 2010 at 10:12 pm

    Soul Sista and Katnina,

    Thank you! I feel so encouraged! These are new skills to me, and I have Siren ♫ ♫ Daria, Daria, Daria ♫ ♫ largely to thank! She has been coaching me in fine detail, every step of the way! Thank you Daria!!!!!!!! I have learned so much from you!



  239.  #239Daria on December 2, 2010 at 10:33 pm

    Brenda lol –

    well i feel glad and surprised ! I feel happy you are taking the steps to get in your power.. it’s lovely and he also texted you the NEXT day! wow



  240.  #240Katnina on December 3, 2010 at 12:01 am

    Rosa, what does NLP stand for? Thanks!
    Kat



  241.  #241Soul Sista on December 3, 2010 at 12:11 am

    …i filtered his email messages to go straight to the trash…that way if he REALLY needs to speak with me about business he has to call me. i just don’t want to deal with it.



  242.  #242Deb on December 3, 2010 at 12:17 am

    Hi Rosa, Darling Ella, & SLV, thanks for your responses!

    I hear ya – my excitement does seem a little much I know, and I do want to make sure to stay grounded in reality. I guess at the moment I just feel happy to be happy… loving to feel loved… and melting to be called “honey” by someone I really admire 🙂

    There is more to the story that will help explain…

    The 2 guys know each other. They used to be fairly close friends a few years back and now I guess they are still in the same social dancing circle, but less close. I really don’t know how I’ve managed to juggle them for so long without incident! They prefer going to different venues.

    I gave my speech to ShimSham about not being sexual with him anymore (which happened only twice) without commitment, and described commitment as being exclusive and continuous. I also have always made it clear that I only date people with whom there might be the possibility of marriage. We both do not like the bf/gf label. Then he went away on a trip. While he was away and making up his mind, Shag was giving me so much attention that I finally let him pleasure me.

    I only want to be involved with one guy sexually at a time, but that means having to tell Shag I’m not going to stay over with him as planned tomorrow. I don’t want to wake up in one guys bed and meet a different guys parent’s the next day! That would feel awful to me! I guess I’m also realizing that I am just not as into Shag and it would feel wrong to continue to see him and lead him on knowing that. The two of them being friends also bothers me. People are starting to see me out with each and say things like, “oh, where’s your ‘boyfriend’ tonight?” That’s just annoying! I don’t know how much they suspect about the other at this point, because neither has asked me directly… are they really that clueless??

    I’ve really tried to listen to my intuition on this one. I understand that it tells you whats best at the moment… Before, it told to me to give Shag a chance. Now its telling me that I have to be honest and realize & communicate that there will never be anything more between us. I sense that I really needed him to learn a valuable lesson about being receptive to compliments, gifts, and affection. Just for reference – I have checked in with my close friends about this too and they unanimously vote for ShimSham.

    I feel a real connection with ShimSham, like I can really be myself around him. He is such a gentleman, makes me laugh, and always always keeps his word. Yes, he was having sex with others before, so we both knew that we were both seeing other people as we were beginning to date. Giving that up WAS a pretty big deal for him and his high libido. I told him that I would commit to him if he committed to me.

    Also – this just happened, so we haven’t been able to have a heart-to-heart yet and I don’t know exactly what he wants & thinks.

    The way I’m seeing it, we are both slowly moving closer and closer together. He now seems to want to give me what I want… so should this not be rewarded? I will certainly keep CDing by flirting and gathering a few date invitations… but as long as I feel good & satisfied about the relationship, I am just more interested in finding out what our connection is all about and less interested on acting on those invitations.

    Maybe I’m just struggling with social norms. Everyone I know has gone through an exclusive period before getting engaged. It just seems unrealistic to expect a proposal after dating for only a couple of months. Also, I have never experienced a good & healthy committed relationship and I just want to know what that feels like to dive into love. Sure I feel scared to be vulnerable and unsure about another person’s feelings… but the communication between us is so good and he is so honest that I feel reassured.

    Do you think I’m making a mistake? I don’t want to discourage him…



  243.  #243Isis on December 3, 2010 at 12:31 am

    Darling Ella: yes.. I did quite a lot of praying too. I did not have a pleasant pregnancy, the baby did not end up being his, and also did not take the baby away. I considered not having it if it was NOT his, but there was no way to tell.

    At this point, while I am sad that he is not the biological father, and confused and stressed about how to make this situation go smoothly, I am also happy that I have my baby and about who his biological father IS.

    I became pregnant when, one night last year, we had had a bad day, and he ended up going home with someone and texting me “I will not be home tonight, I am going to spend the night with someone else”.. I texted back, that’s fine, I am in [a city an hour and a half away]. I wasn’t, yet, but I was on my way there, because he hadn’t come home. I figured I wasn’t going to sit around waiting. This was when he first started to see this other person. It was not okay with me, as it was NOT agreed upon, so I left home.

    I would have been willing to look at it as dating others and it all would have been fine, but he later insisted upon bringing her into my space which was not ok with me.

    Anyway that’s all in the past, all that nasty stuff.

    But I became pregnant that ONE NIGHT when I went to visit that friend who was visiting home from out of state. It turns out that he is very happy about it, so excited, can’t stop talking about it… I feel like he is going to be a very involved father…

    I wish I knew what he wanted with ME. If anything.

    I know he loves me and cares about me, but we have never had a committed relationship at all. He’s always had his other girlfriends. And the larger percentage of time that we’ve known each other he’s lived across the country rather than here at home.

    He freaked out in the beginning wondering what I saw happening with this situation. I said I really didn’t know, there are so many options. Part of me wants to talk about it and part of me wants to leave it alone and just let it happen. I alluded to still being attracted to him and he said it would be best if we figure it out after he gets here.
    He tells his family and friends I am in a relationship and they all respect that (including him).

    I am curious whether he would want to try to be a family. But I don’t know how to ask him that ..while leaning back. I also feel I am not ready to leave the family I’ve got. We will see how it all goes though.



  244.  #244Isis on December 3, 2010 at 12:32 am

    SLV-
    I didn’t make line breaks either, I just pressed enter, but it didn’t work for some reason.



  245.  #245Isis on December 3, 2010 at 12:53 am

    So today was my first “date”….. I have been trying to date myself a little bit, and just be in general less available and accommodating. Leaning back by doing a little less.

    But anyway, my date.. is a friend of mine, who I know likes me, at least enough to be attracted to me.

    We invited him over for dinner one night and he stayed until laaaate, after my man-I-live-with went to bed. We had good conversation.

    At some point he has said he wanted to take me to a particular museum (maybe because I mentioned wanting to create a sculpture.)

    I never took him up on it, but I thought now was as good of a time as any. Especially since I want to go to SF for NYE and my honey has gotten all crazylike.
    So I messaged him online last night and was flirty in response to things he said.. I don’t remember what I said, but alluded to something about him making me nervous, he said “I wish” and I said he was right. it must be the setting.. if we were somewhere else, like the museum, or elsewhere, (a more atmospheric setting).. i might be more nervous. he apparently forgot he mentioned going to the museum, because he sounded astonished that I had mentioned THAT museum. I knew though, that he would ask to take me, and he asked to go in a couple of days. I said yes. Even though I wasn’t sure I wanted to go.

    The night before, he said he couldn’t do it, could we do thursday? I almost cancelled, but I gritted my teeth and accepted. I don’t really have interest in dating, period, but I figured it would be good for both me and my partner. And the sooner I get out of his hair the better. So thursday it was.

    He picked me up, all dressed up in a suit though I’m not sure why… my partner and our roommate were here, and I let him pick me up in front of him. I just told myself “it’s just a friend and we’re going to go hang out”. Of course if this is the case it’s still effective.. because any male friend I hang out with is likely to be attracted to me. My partner had to work during this time. He greeted our friend with a very enthusiastic hug (keep your competition close? I don’t know). and had told me before it was great I was going to get out of the house. My date said he’d have me home by dark. My partner said that’s when I get a little frisky, maybe he should keep me out a little longer? … I playfully threw some kind of shorts at his head that just happened to be there, handy.

    He took me to a coffee shop some of our friends work at. I saw another girlfriend of mine there also. We had lunch and talked. Then we went to this museum which is really not all that exciting, but I enjoyed it, because I am a curious person after all. He lingered, he didn’t want to leave there, but had to go because he had a client to see immediately afterwards.

    I felt… nervous before he got here, and worried that my partner would think I was primping and dressing up. I was worried that my “date” would feel nervous picking me up with my partner at the house. They seemed ..ok or fine though.

    When we were out, I still felt nervous and a bit reserved. In our conversation I drifted off in thought a lot, and had to remind myself to be present. Not because he wasn’t interesting, .. i don’t really know why. I just do that I guess. Lots of thoughts.

    I also had kind of an icky feeling. I don’t like his body type. I like him as a friend.. maybe I could even love him, but I am fairly sure that will never happen as I have others I am more interested in. The icky feeling was probably less about him and just.. ickyness about the situation in general.

    When I came home I still felt nervous but I had a good time. But I felt extremely happy to have my partner and felt very driven to just have sex with him. He wasn’t here, and tho he is now I still haven’t acted upon that. But I definitely felt immensely attracted to him after going out with my other friend. So much so that I actually had the thought that my partner SHOULD see as many other people as possible, because there is no one better than me, and it would just make him grateful.
    In reality I don’t know if that’s the case though, and definitely feel it would add stress. But so what, I’m not here to worry about him, I’m here to concentrate on me.

    on my “date” i made sure to practice letting him open all the doors for me, and order lunch for us. when we left lunch he asked if i wanted another lemonade, I said no. he asked if I was sure and I said yes. then asked if I wanted a cookie! dingdingding! jackpot! that’s exactly what I was thinking. so i got my cookie. yay. haha.

    anyway… yay/fun/icky/?…
    weird.
    I hate dating.
    but had a good day and my partner has actually not been irritated at all tonight. came home late from work hungry AND helped with dinner and has been perfectly pleasant the whole time. even when I told him our roommate dumped his laundry on the bed (thereby wrinkling his dress shirts.) hmmm.



  246.  #246Rosa on December 3, 2010 at 4:24 am

    Wow Isis , that situation feels uncomfortable for me to read about. I feel triggered about “partners” sleeping with other people in “open” relationships and live ins dating other people. I feel triggered by other women scattered through your relationship and casual dating and Friends With Benefits …and Oh Wow I am so triggered…

    This is my trigger around not being “Good enough” to be “enough “for a man. I feel yickky ‘checking over my shoulder feelings” of disquiet even contemplating this …BIG trigger for me. This is around my stuff to do with self esteem and feeling worthy of a good man . Its also around a very bad feeling …I am getting it now…

    I dont quite know how to name this iccky , sickly clutching thumpiness in my solar plexus…I got that feeling when G-Man introduced me to other women he was dating several years ago while still seeing me.
    It was almost a survival instinct gut level fear fight and flight thing…

    Ok Feeling , I am going to name you Fear of Being Totally Nothing , not important, not special , not loved , not BEING , just a used Kleenex kind of sickly feeling , the “Condom Under the Bed” feeling…

    I hate this feeling, I would lash out , i would sabotage I would become bitter and sarcastic and push away anyone around whom I felt this feeling..that means G-man. And I would even see him and allow sex with him as FWB just to make this feeling go away in a temporary hormonal bliss out that would always ALWAYS make the feeling worse the next day..

    Thank you Isis for triggering me. I am feeling it and sinking in to it and naming it now and I am very grateful, because I see something BIG ..maybe a gem down in the scary dark soup…

    I see that the yo yo dynamic with G-man has been driven by this very same feeling and my frantic attempts to make it go away . By letting him close and woo me with dates and dinners back into his bed I would reactivate the Condom Under The Bed feeling time and time again and then push him away cause it hurt so bad, then let him close to try to get some love from him to make it go away , until it cycled all over again…I feel nausea rising…



  247.  #247Darling Ella on December 3, 2010 at 8:06 am

    A new blog was just posted 🙂

    Hugs,



  248.  #248Isis on December 3, 2010 at 12:14 pm

    NLP -if the question hasn’t been answered- stands for NeuroLinguistic Programming.

    SoulSista. I just had a natural birth and it was uncomfortable but no where near as terrible as I always hear births (especially hospital births) being.
    I think you would love it, if you give yourself the chance to relax and believe you will do wonderfully.

    ps, I like how you filtered the man messages to the trash.



  249.  #249Isis on December 3, 2010 at 12:18 pm

    Brenda. Thanks for posting your text conversation. I think you are doing great with the silences.. and not responding unless he asks a question!



  250.  #250Nikita on December 4, 2010 at 1:15 pm

    I am hearing a lot about the call and I found this:

    here:https://blog.havetherelationshipyouwant.com/dating/observing-dating-conventions-gets-you-more-love-a-note-to-men/#comments

    _478: Erika Awakening says:

    Hey Ladies,

    I’m feeling excited for our call today. I’ll be in sessions most of the day with very little free time, so if you need to get in touch with me, please do so NOW at Erika@ ErikaAwakening.com

    A few important notes:

    1. A number of women have asked me: “If I’m not able to make it for the call today, will it be available by audio?” The answer is yes, I will make it available on my website for a modest fee, likely $29.97, to cover technological and other costs. It remains free for anyone who joins us live today at 2 pm PST. Thank you for your support and your understanding that the recording with not be free due to the large amount of time investment and technological investment that goes into something like this

    2. Some women have noticed finding “excuses” for why they are not able to be on the call or not able to participate despite making a prior commitment to participate … and I really invite you to challenge yourself here … HBR is a powerful healing technology. At the risk of triggering some people here, the ego does not want you to get healed. It will therefore put up all kinds of obstacles to prevent you from receiving healing, EVEN WHEN IT’S FREE.

    The best antidote to this is to practice what Rori teaches about SINKING INTO YOUR FEELINGS. Feel the heart fluttering, feel the part of you that wants to run, and STAY PRESENT. If you are able to face the fear directly, it will dissolve, and your feelings of self-consciousness and “I can’t do this, it’s too vulnerable” will disappear. If you run away from the fear, it will continue to run your life. And I really ask you to go deep with this and be more honest with yourself than you’ve ever been before …

    Look forward to you being on the call.

    Barb, it is perfectly fine to listen in without speaking, so not having a microphone is okay. For those feeling a lot of fear coming up, I highly recommend you just listen in and remember to TAP because that will dissolve the fear.

    Again, yes, the audio recording will be made available afterward as a product for a modest fee, so if you wanted the free call, please do whatever it takes to be there at 2 pm PST.

    Love,
    Erika

    Sunday, 19 September 2010 @ 8:36am



  251.  #252Brenda on December 5, 2010 at 7:54 am

    Thanks, Isis!



  252.  #253Alonka on December 11, 2010 at 1:32 pm

    Hi girls,

    It’s been a while since I was part of this chat.. how’s everyone? Thought that perhaps some of you who remember me and my story would be curious – unexpectedly there was continuation to it. I ran in the street into the guy I was in love with for so long and with whom things always finished so abruptly. He was sooo happy to see me all of the sudden, I couldn’t believe it. He asked me out immediately. He said it was terrific to see me. he asked me to dinner on Friday night and we agreed that he would pick me up. He came to see me and we stayed in, ordered food, watched a movie, had a very romantic and insighful night, in the morning I made him breakfast and he left. He called the next day saying that he had a very nice time, he doesn’t know where that puts us, but he had a good time and we should go out some time soon. There is a lot going on in the city during holiday season, we will do something. What’s my email address?.. That didn’t feel good. 3-4 days later I called him. At first he sounded intimate and happy to hear from me. And then he started saying – you’re pushing me to have an exclusive relationship and I want to date others, I don’t feel that you are a long-term match for me. We are very different – you lived in FOUR countries and who knows where else, you were married and divorced at a young age, you grew up in a completely different culture. I don’t know what you were doing in these countries?? We can’t have a relationship if we have one date a year! He was yelling at me. He took me by surprise – all I could say was to defend myself a bit and say that I feel confused, I feel that he is giving me mixed messages. He yelled more – if I say that I like you and I’m attracted to you it’s a mixed message?? But I don’t want to give it a shot! I said that I need some space to sort things out and that was it. He wished me a pleasant night:)

    I told him all about my moves and my life in other countries – one was for school, then my family moved to Canada and then I moved to New York for a job. There is nothing strange or dirty in my past and he knows it. I was married at 20, divorced at 23 and didn’t keep in touch with my ex-husband. One thing this conversation cleared up – I always thought that we had misunderstandings and he didn’t realize how much I’m in love with him – it turned out that he ‘felt that I expected a relationship’ after spending a night together. Stuff that he told me sounded pretty insulting – do you think I can write and tell him that romance or not, but I’m not proud of him for these comments? or better just to move on and forget him?



  253.  #254tinque on December 11, 2010 at 1:51 pm

    Alonka – It’s good to hear from you again. I say RUN away and as fast as you can. Yikes. Writing to him will not get him to see anything. It won’t make you feel better because he’ll either attack you again or ignore the letter. Neither one will feel good, and neither one will give you “closure”. Please leave this one alone.
    xxoo



  254.  #255Alonka on December 11, 2010 at 9:06 pm

    Hi Tinque,

    Thank you so much for your advice. I was thinking that myself – what a mean commitmentphobic man and I had myself fooled for such a long time.. Don’t get it how he can be so sweet, caring and willing to work on it one day and so distant just a few days later.



  255.  #256tinque on December 12, 2010 at 12:13 pm

    Alonka – All of us, men and women alike can be odd creatures. Major red flags as this are best caught early, and it’s best to extricate early before much has been invested, your heart especially.
    xxoo