When You Love You, He’ll Love You…And, Even If You DON’T Quite Love You – He WILL…

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hearts making heart 110The Question:

KB asks, “Are you saying that if we love all parts of ourselves, fearful self, anxiety, and we calm the inner storm and urgency – then we’ll attract the ideal energy person, a boy energy?”

That’s it.

And loving yourself “first” so that real love will come to you isn’t exactly a new concept or instruction. It’s been the “message” for as long as I can remember.

The thing is – how do you do that?

It SOUNDS “good.” It even sounds easy.

Yet, if it’s “easy,” why haven’t we all “done” it by now?

Because it’s NOT easy  – and not because it’s not, in itself, simple and easy and graceful – but because NOTHING is easy when you don’t know how to do it.

Constant, never-ending trial-and-error takes heroic effort, and continual disappointments in love aren’t much motivation to keep “trying.”

AND – once you “get” the way it works best for YOU – there’s almost no STOPPING you from loving yourself.

Once you experience an actual result that’s thrilling and feels good – instead of falling flat at your feet and making you cringe – you DO feel motivated to keep going! To keep doing this thing that’s WORKING!

Blame Doesn’t Work – Yet We Do It All The Time

When you’re feeling miserable, when you believe you’ve made a mistake, when you feel responsible for everything in and around you and things aren’t working – the first person we want to blame is ourself.

Then, the second we blame ourselves, every man we see feels like we’re blaming him too.

So we have to stop blaming ourselves before a guy is going to feel safe with us.

In Modern Siren I call this the Modern Siren Combo: The two things a man needs from us: 1. To feel safe with us, and 2. To feel thrilled by us.

You’re already providing the thrill just by being a girl. Really you are.

If you want to learn something about sex and tantra and really be good at it technically, that’s all frosting on the cake. It doesn’t hurt to learn skills: speaking skills, feeling skills, touching skills.

Yet, until you feel safe with you, until you feel like your inner boy loves you unconditionally and feels safe inside you – both taking charge of the “doing” in your life and yet allowing your inner girl to “begin” all of his “action” from her organic intuition, desires, wants, feelings – a man will never feel safe with you.

So you’ve got to start with you.

Start Here To Create Safety

The fact that there are no fights or arguments in a relationship doesn’t mean things are great.

Often, it means things got stuffed under the rug.

It’s nobody’s fault. It’s that everybody has anger, and not everyone knows how to best use the experience of it.

We’re always constantly being disappointed.

In a relationship you come against anger every day, and the trick is to:

  • Recognize it. Then…
  • Say, “I’m feeling pissed and I’m feeling depressed and I’m feeling disappointed …and I noticed it started to come up when this happened….”

Once you recognize the attack that’s going on, the attack on yourself! – the urgency that’s going on – then you…

  • Immediately start forgiving yourself for just the thought of attack, that anybody could be attacked, that anything could not be perfect and for not feeling safe within yourself.

Love, Rori

 

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81 Comments

  1.  #1Femininewoman on October 6, 2015 at 7:36 am

    mmmm Interesting



  2.  #2Femininewoman on October 6, 2015 at 7:38 am

    I hope someone finds the below as interesting as I did…….

    A few months ago I was watching Grey’s Anatomy on TV and learned the most awesome thing! Here was the scene: Dr. Amelia Shepard was standing in the surgical suite, about to perform a groundbreaking 17-hour brain surgery on a colleague. She was scared out of her mind because if anything went wrong, her friend would die on the table. When her assistant arrived, she told her to stand with her feet shoulder width apart, hands on hips, chest and chin up in “wonder woman” pose for two minutes. Both women assumed the “wonder woman” position and by doing this simple act, it gave them both the courage they needed to tackle the surgery. And, of course as great TV goes, it worked!

    I began to wonder if this “wonder woman” pose was for real, so I did some research. Turns out it is based in fact! You can instantly re-claim your power and confidence by standing in “wonder woman” pose for just two minutes. Social psychologist, Ann Cuddy, has proven this works!

    In as little time as two minutes, the superhero stance elevates confidence. It alters hormone production, lifting the power hormone, testosterone, and reducing the stress hormone.

    As science demonstrates, body posture influences our brains and consequently, our feelings. According to science, if you pose like a super-hero, you’ll think like a super-hero, and act like a super-hero.

    While you are standing in “Super Hero Pose” and looking up, say out loud statements that will empower you, such as I am: Brave, Courageous, Safe, Protected, Successful, Fearless, At ease, Proud, Exhilarated, Strong, Heroic, Having fun, etc.

    And, the next time you have to have a “difficult” conversation with a loved one or someone at work, or you are about to go on a blind date, try it. I think you will find that it’s easier to be more loving and compassionate when you aren’t filled with fear, dread or getting defensive.

    Wishing you love, laughter and magical kisses,

    Arielle



  3.  #3blueyedgirl on October 6, 2015 at 4:08 pm

    FW,
    I loved that “Wonder Woman” stance. I am so going to practice that.

    Thank you for sharing.



  4.  #4Femininewoman on October 6, 2015 at 9:21 pm

    You are most welcome blueyedgirl



  5.  #5Azure Blu on October 7, 2015 at 4:49 am

    FW
    WOWOWOWOWO!!!
    I love this “Wonder Woman” stance…
    I’m using it this morning and am feeling AMAZING!!!
    Thank you!

    It’s a NEW tool in my tool box



  6.  #6Mandy on October 7, 2015 at 1:01 pm

    On the Wonder Woman stance,

    This is true, I always used to roll my eyes when my dad told me to stand straight up, push chest forward, look people in the eye, but he was right, they use this in the Military to build confidence. A lot of guys who are kids off the street go ion and come out sharp because of doing things every day like this.

    It makes perfect sense for if you need to be in your boy energy and do something spot on.



  7.  #7Femininewoman on October 7, 2015 at 1:06 pm

    Now I feel happy that I did not just delete that email but decided to share.



  8.  #8Linda on October 7, 2015 at 6:11 pm

    I remember writing about my warrior woman here years ago. In my minds eye she stands like this .



  9.  #9Turquoise on October 7, 2015 at 9:41 pm

    So what do we do ladies…. When we meet a guy who says all the things we want to hear, his actions back it up, and he wants a committed relationship? Last weekend I met a guy for two wonderful dates. We have talked on the phone for over 20 hours in 12 days, plus all the texting, initial emailing and the time we were physically together. I’m calling him knight because he’s charming, very masculine and seems to be all that I’m looking for. How do we not fall into an instant relationship? I have t had time, or even interest in talking to those other guys, but I have male friends, my friends and family… And feel very confident that I know what I want. This guy talks about marriage and commitment, he’s very attentive, caring, what’s to take care of me…. I like him a lot. My walls are up high. He’s saying he understands, will wait, be patient, everything can be at my pace, but he’s being very open that he wants to focus all his effort on me, and wouldn’t date me if I were dating other men. His ex cheated on him after 6 years together. I don’t want things to feel rushed, but it’s so nice getting to know someone who I’m so excited by. He’s really smart, hard working, has nice things, he makes me smile a lot. He regularly asked on both dates if I wanted or needed anything, if I was comfortable. It was the first time during a movie, a date checked on me and asked if I needed anything. I’m more comfortable on the phone… More relaxed and myself, but I’m hoping it gets easier. I’m not used to feeling… Adored. I’ve been skeptical…. But then I remembered there are good guys out there and not to expect the worst.



  10.  #10Starla on October 7, 2015 at 10:45 pm

    Hi Turquoise!! We avoid instarelationship by cding. At 2 dates, this is healthy. you do not owe him throwing yourself off the bridge to happily ever after because he has cheating trauma that is his to heal. Maybe just see how it goes, enjoy it without expectation, date others without expectation, and then maybe in 1 month ask yourself how you’re feeling. You’ll know when it’s healthy to stop cding if you ask your non fearful inner self. At 2 dates and exciting early relationship talk (love those long talks:-)), it sounds like your fearful inner self is already concerned with not losing this guy. That’s not how this is supposed to work. Anyway, in general, a guy who comes on this strong should be put to the test of time as a best practice. So I say just enjoy for the next month and then revisit your questions then.



  11.  #11Indigo on October 7, 2015 at 11:54 pm

    Turquoise,

    (As usual recently) I absolutely 100% agree with Starla. As wonderful and unusual as this all feels, 2 dates is extremely early to be worrying about all this stuff. All these intense feelings and questions and worries rising to the surface is natural – this is what romantic love does, it triggers all of those deep things. Try to just breathe through it all and keep your head. Without pushing him away, just maintain your own strength and peace, and your own boundaries. As Starla says, his feelings are his to deal with. Don’t go making any promises to him, just continue to do what feels right to you and see how it all feels. A lot of coaches warn about men who say all these things about marriage and commitment and happy ever after very early on and come on super strong, and I would also say exercise care here. Like Starla said, if it’s real it will stand the test of time. There are men who become infatuated and are in love with the fantasy, the idea of being in love, and at this stage 2 dates is still just a fantasy. Good luck and enjoy the attention!



  12.  #12Millie on October 8, 2015 at 12:15 am

    Femininewoman– in response to your post to me on the last thread about clutter… You asked me why I feel the need to constantly clean if I am indeed organized? I guess the answer to that is that my life is chaotic. I am extremely busy and sometimes throw things on the desk to deal with later or take off my clothes at the end of a long day and leave them on the floor… At work I’m in masculine energy all day, and towards the end of it especially.. I lose a bit of my “doing” energy. So messes occur. I deal with them later…everything has a place it should be…and I love how I feel once everything is put in it’s place. I love clearing clutter. Maybe I create my own clutter in order to reorganize it? I’m not sure how this translates to me being stuck though… Other than the idea that it is diffuclt for me to get rid of “stuff.” I’m so much better now that I’m older though. As a child it was way worse. I kept everything!!! I guess the underlying issue is that I have a hard time continually dealing with things in the moment, I choose to deal with it later…. But it’s not that I handle everything that way. I’m constantly making decisions at work and managing situations, crossing things off my to do list, harnessing the chaos into a prioritized list. Is thst controlling? I think so…. But as a manager you have to be to an extent. I like things done in detail, and I won’t move on until it’s done right. Then I can deal with the next issue… The control comes from a sense of order.

    What do you think??? Any ideas??



  13.  #13Millie on October 8, 2015 at 12:45 am

    Ohh another thing!! So this guy that wanted to meet me from online… Turned out to show me something! The conversation was done until he asked when I was free and I let him know. He is a marine who just moved here recently and responsed saying he doesn’t have a car yet and told me where he is located, which is like two hours away from me if not more. I didn’t realize his location! I said that was very far and he responded saying “I understand if your not interested.” I told him since I had t met him I didn’t know yet, but that I know it is too far for me to drive. He went on a bit of a rant after that saying that no one wants him bad enough to go out to him, that he’s been single 8 yrs, and wants to give up… I said that I’m looking for a man who believes in courting women, not the other way around. He said me driving out would not be me courting him…. (What? Isn’t thst exactly what it is?) I also told him I wanted to feel safe in my first meeting with someone new and that driving all the way out there when I’ve never met him, at night doesn’t feel safe to me. He did not step up or try to understand how I felt at all or try to offer any other solutions. He made the whole thing about himself and started blaming phones and other people for his lack of a love life. I was very turned off.. But his words served as a mirror for me… There are times I get stuck in the “woe is me” “I’ll never find anyone” “he doesn’t want me enough” mentality and project it onto others. Now I can feel how unattractive and purposeless it is. It serves me in no way except keeping people away. With this man, I felt thst is what he was doing…. Trying to manipulate me… “Feel bad for me” his words said. Well Im sorry but, I know what I want and I don’t want to bend in order to serve another persons ailing ego. It gave me strength to snap out my own feel bad moodiness. To choose people who make me feel like I’m soaring, rather than bending back…. If that makes sense…



  14.  #14Indigo on October 8, 2015 at 1:07 am

    Millie,

    You get some strange and bitter men online. I’ve just ended off chatting with a guy (I blocked him because I found myself dreading what cocky response he would come up with) who gave me a list of 13 questions to answer. The entire tone of his email was sizing me up, asking me to impress him and qualify myself, to prove somehow that I’m a great catch (as if you can even DO that just via emailing online!). I didn’t like it but I answered the questions in the name of experimenting and because they weren’t too bad. Then he came back with even MORE icky questions… such as I’ve described myself as vivacious in my profile, some men could interpret that as clingy, am I clingy? Whoah, whoah and whoah again! Goodbye dude, and goodbye to your issues and preconceived notions about women!

    I contrast this with an absolutely lovely date I had last night. It was a first date, but because we’d met through a mutual friend I felt comfortable having him over to my house. He brought dinner and was so sweet and attentive – and he seemed really interested in getting to know who I was and being genuine and real about all of this, no rushing and no holding back. He’s set up a date with me tomorrow night – this is the kind of man I want to spend my time with 🙂



  15.  #15Victoria on October 8, 2015 at 1:50 am

    Indigo,
    I am intrugued and entertained by your question asking guy, hope you don’t mind me saying it. Would you share what else he asked?



  16.  #16Starla on October 8, 2015 at 4:52 am

    Millie, go to YouTube and search for “The Life Changing Magic of Tidying Up Audiobook.” It’s an awesome method that really eliminates big cleaning. I think it will resonate with you.



  17.  #17Turquoise on October 8, 2015 at 5:36 am

    Hi Starla and Indigo! Thank you for the reminders! Ugh…, it’s been a long time since I had something like this to contemplate. I’m definitely trying to just stay in the moment and enjoy it… But all three of the guys I was talking to said the same thing, zero interest talking to a woman dating other men. I guess by late 30’s early 40’s, they move faster to commitment.



  18.  #18Femininewoman on October 8, 2015 at 5:48 am

    Millie in my mind how it translates into being stuck is that the pattern of behavior transcends into every area of life. I asked because I remember some other coaches even Rori talking about clearing clutter and making space even in your love life. For the most part just about every one of them I know of encourage women to clear things out from past relationships because it energetically ties you to the man. I was thinking maybe that is one of the reasons why getting over M might be difficult. I also remember one coach giving a tool of cord cutting after removing all the stuff. I encourage you to at least start with doing it in your mind. If you have not read those messages from M in a while why hold on to them? That relationship is broken and even if you are hoping that he comes back, if he does, what you will want to do is create a new relationship. Not restart what was broken. Even if he comes back your best bet is for him to experience you as new. Conscious living, conscious loving, conscious relationships require choice. A new relationship is what my wish for you would be.



  19.  #19Femininewoman on October 8, 2015 at 5:53 am

    Regarding control I believe it has its place in workplace. The thing is to switch from that vibe when you leave the workplace and go to date guys. Maybe including some feminine oriented rituals like walking in nature and soaking in a bubble bath and doing some visualizing could get you to switch hats and sink into your feminine energy.



  20.  #20Femininewoman on October 8, 2015 at 6:02 am

    Turquoise maybe you have just met a guy who is at that stage of his life. There is nothing wrong with that. The thing is what do you want? Do you just want to date or do you want a real relationship? When you settle that in your heart maybe you might be able to see this from a different perspective. At this age I imagine that this guy has dated around and knows what he wants and though it might only be two dates I believe guys know very early on because they pay more attention to their guts that most women do. If he wants some kind of commitment maybe you could commit to dating him exclusively for a month and see how you feel. At the end of the most the both of you can revisit that commitment and see if you want to move forward or not. At that point in time if you do you might agree to extend the exclusivity for another 3 months. This might keep him on his toes so he doesn’t truly feel that he has got you and that if he slips up he might lose you. The only thing would be around sex as I think he will start pushing for it. If I were in your shoes and feel uncertainty about him I would definitely put it off during the trial period. If he really wants you I believe he will respect that and wait because he will want to prove to you that he deserves you.



  21.  #21Femininewoman on October 8, 2015 at 6:05 am

    How do we not fall into an instant relationship?

    I believe by living consciously and loving consciously, making choices. Life presents you with choices and you can pace yourself by making commitments that serve you.



  22.  #22Mandy on October 8, 2015 at 6:32 am

    The subject of this blog must be true, because I have been questioning my own self-love for weeks…

    …and I just got the L word from Valentine. Capital L.

    Not only that but he somehow resolved the situation with his baby’s mother so she wouldn’t be around harassing him. I guess he set things straight with her, so he can be at my disposal. It was very masculine of him. I’m somehow not surprised, but wow, I know neither of us are planning on being each other’s boyfriend/girlfriend, but I guess now I know people can still have it happen and not “go out”. (Does this happen more often than I think?)

    I think we must have seen each other four times. Of course tons and tons of talking everyday between times we’ve seen each other. He surprises me all the time with things I forgot guys do. He wants to buy me a necklace, and it was really weird, because I pictured this heart necklace, and he showed it to me and asked me if I like it and I told him I love it. I am not used to this at all. This person is very old-fashioned and I can’t get enough of it.

    And I still have G calling every other day and a date on Friday, with an old college friend, lol.

    With J in the apartment, I have started actually getting upset with him because I don’t care anymore if he sees me upset, and he runs quick to fix it.

    I must be doing something right. I even spotted one other man online and thought he was cute and somehow got his attention, emotionally. It was pretty radical, he was talking to me like he was pouring his heart out to hear me pour out mine. I just was letting it all out and it felt dramatic at the time, but maybe it was actually something that made him want to rush to my side.

    Boy I was really…in a…rut with J…I feel like he never ran to me like that, except now. The vulnerability thing is big. I have a lot of it too so, hey, lol. No worries! 🙂 Lots of vulnerability lol.

    I found out something and I have been shy to say it but Valentine and I…well I found him on an alternative dating site, if you want to call it that…but I found out after so long of celibacy that I am not by any means a vanilla person in the bedroom. J was, and anything other than vanilla was vanilla or boring to him. Complete off sexual match.

    I realized I needed someone who was going to take the initiative. I wasn’t even looking though I had messaged Valentine to find out about events in the area, and he just seemed like he would know, and I was right he did then I realized he was a pretty gorgeous and warm, bright person, so I talked some more and he told me later he’d seen me at the alternative club before last year on Halloween dressed as Tank girl and thought I was smoking hot, lol, and had seen my modeling photos and was a fan, for that long. So this man had been admiring me from afar for a year until now. I guess when we met there was so much synergy we just exploded chemistry-wise. He was so nervous he was talking very fast, lol.
    This is a huge deal to me, because a friend of mine, one who had dealings with J and I’s relationship, is his ex, lol, which I’m fine with, but I realize…that friend, his ex, is one of the most coveted women in that social scene, he’s one of the most coveted males, and I know this sounds funny, but for that reason I kind of do feel really special. It took something special to get him to tell his baby’s mother she cannot have control of his life. This guy tells me my skin feel perfect against his, and he knew I was “his” from the get-go. His, lol. I know I just got the L-word but I was determined to tough this out without a boyfriend, so we will see if I make it. lol. Resist the urge, lol. Somehow J ended up asking me to be his girlfriend even though he said he didn’t want one from the beginning. I can see that happening here because I was telling myself don’t expect anything, don’t expect the L word. Somehow I have a feeling this man is going to be very giving towards me, he tells me to put my money away and that he should be taking care of me. How awesome is that???



  23.  #23ldoo on October 8, 2015 at 7:05 am

    I’ve been having trouble communicating something that I thought some of you might have experienced: when sports gets in the way of “us” time. My boyfriend, who I feel wonderful and happy with, loves most sports and wants to watch or go to so many sporting events. I love his passion – and I love sports, too – but it’s starting to get in the way. There will always be an important game, but does that mean he should always get to take part? I don’t want to be the mean girlfriend who makes him feel guilty, but I don’t want to feel like second place all the time. I think he knows this, but it doesn’t really make him change his ways. It just makes him do things to make up for it – like be extra sweet, take me out to a nice dinner, etc. How should I handle this? College basketball season is coming up, and it’s only going to get worse.



  24.  #24Azure Blu on October 8, 2015 at 7:44 am

    Dixie, #44 from last thread
    I enjoyed reading about
    YOU softly, gently loving YOU more
    and how that has brought D and others closer to you…
    I too have found this to be true
    Indigo wrote of our “innocent” heart (several weeks ago)
    and it brought tears to my eyes
    and touched me deeply
    I realized I do have a warm, gentle, innocent heart
    that longs for me to love and cherish her
    to be soft and gentle with her…
    and this simple word
    has PROFOUNDLY affected me recently.

    I love what you wrote here:
    “I’ve become okay with the softer, more vulnerable side of myself this past year…
    And instead of beating myself up over stuff,
    it’s so much easier to be softer and gentler
    and more forgiving with myself.
    I don’t know if this is linked to it,
    but D. has also shifted…..
    Very masculine and take charge at work,
    but so tender and loving and sweet with me.

    I’m not sure if he’s my Forever Man,
    but I do know that the anxiousness is at bay.
    I can feel that the easier I am with myself,
    the easier it is for others to come close.”



  25.  #25Azure Blu on October 8, 2015 at 7:48 am

    Mandy #21
    Ahhhh… the thrill and excitement of hearing
    the L word from a gorgeous, masculine man!!!

    I agree with you… and with what Victoria says…
    Men crave the chase!!! Keep dating and cding all
    men…
    You are the one who gets to watch, listen observe actions NOT just words
    and CHoose
    Just as you say
    You’re NOT in any hurry!!!



  26.  #26Indigo on October 8, 2015 at 8:32 am

    Victoria,

    This is a copy and paste of the questions he sent me:

    “1. So how long have you been on this dating site or others ?
    2. What are you comfortable getting from online dating, very short term or long term or both ?
    3. How come you are not married and with a kid yet ?
    4. What nationality is your gran or her gran ?
    5. How many kids would you be happy with ?
    6. Are you religious and if so which and how religious ?
    7. Do you do gardening ?
    8. Do you have your own place or stay with your parents ?
    9. What did you think of my profile on this site ?
    10. I see you dodge the job question so here it is again ?
    11. If you had to plan your most comfortable ideal first date where would it be ?
    12. This is Durban the slops and baggies capital so would you feel comfortable walking in the mall with your man on a Sunday if he were wearing shorts + shirt with 2 day old stubble and bare foot ?
    13. So now don’t go running for the hills on this question you don’t have to answer if you don’t want to, the reason I ask is from past experiences with online dating.
    What is the sum of your sexual experience (number of partners and your sexual appetite) ?

    Number 13. is a kicker to test you because you said you would answer anything.”

    Then he had the audacity to come back and say he was pleased with my answers! And added the following questions:

    “So how come things didn’t work out with your other BF’s if you are a laid back person who can cook well that’s every man’s dream ?

    You said you are vivacious but men could see that as overly clingy. Are you clingy ?

    How fit are you do you gym ?”

    The vivacious question finished me off. Buh bye!



  27.  #27Mandy on October 8, 2015 at 8:37 am

    Azure,

    Well judging from this already…

    I feel very RELIEVED. I have a hunch maybe this one will surprise me again, and again. He’s just a young man, he hasn’t been jaded yet, even with having a child, and healthy, with no yucky habits. I took note from something a Siren said to me on this blog a long time ago –

    it was something about J not having the warmth I have and not reciprocating it, well I took notice right away of this man’s warmth, and I remembered that. Definitely an extrovert, which is good. They don’t get tired of me talking, lol.

    I realize J and I were just an off-match. I think we connected sexually at first (oddly enough) and then with feelings, I grew on him, but it became a thing of me giving him back-rubs and not getting ANYTHING back.

    I can’t say enough that each one of these people really appreciates a woman who dresses up because they know I do and they’re often interested in what I’ll show up in, nice. That part is my favorite part, making myself pretty, lol. Can’t not love that part.

    Because I was trying to convince myself I didn’t have heart energy for Valentine, when every time a song came on that reminded me of him I’d get this electrical pulse in my chest and it would shoot to different places in me, and I knew I was lying to myself, but I couldn’t just throw myself at him, just trying to keep things in perspective, now that he has said it out loud, there can be some dialogue from me about it.

    What’s fun is he has a lot more to fall for here, he doesn’t know everything about me yet, at least I am pretty sure not! 🙂

    The lesson I took from J was to be more mysterious. Working on that but not for him feels good.

    Well I just hope he moves out soon because I am tired of worrying about him figuring out about my personal life things that aren’t his business but what he would get mad at.



  28.  #28Turquoise on October 8, 2015 at 9:13 am

    I like that idea Feminine Woman. I honestly don’t have a lot of free time, and with his work schedule, we can only see each other on weekends…. so while it feels like its leading towards a real relationship, and I do want that… I’m so beyond tired of casual with not much potential…. we really can’t rush things. He’s 36, never married, no children… and took a two year break from dating, so he seems very sure of what he wants and what he’s looking for. He’s told me everything can happen at my pace, and not a second before I’m ready as far as meeting my kids, travel, sex. He told me yesterday he’d wait two years if that’s what I wanted…. lol. Not sure I believe that one, but I’m not looking to wait that long myself. He’s very complimentary, affectionate… seems really smart. I do like him a lot. But I know I’m really afraid of getting attached, being lied to, getting my heart broken… and my walls are up. It’s probably why I feel so much more comfortable with him on the phone. I’ve definitely learned my lesson about not having sex too early in a relationship. I get too attached and emotionally frazzled when things hit a bump in the road, until I feel really connected and comfortable in a relationship. It’s been such a long time since I had that… it’s like learning it all over again. I’m remembering to lean back, use some feeling messages, smile, visualize… all that good stuff I learned here. I’ve done some leaning forward too… bad habit I guess, but it was really well received and returned, so not beating myself up for that. So far, it’s going really well. We agreed to keep doing what we are doing and enjoy it. He took his dating profile down after our first date. He keeps saying how much he likes me, what kind of person I am, what I stand for, that I’m beautiful and kind… he seems like a very know what he wants and go for it kind of guy. I feel like we could have a nice adventure together and he has no problem being the leader. The only bad part is he lives almost an hour away with traffic (other side of the city) and he works 3-11 Monday – Friday. With my work schedule and my kids, I’m not free much during the week, so it’s not a big issue for me. I did appreciate that he said he can take time off if something comes up during the week, and we are talking about the possibility of going away over Thanksgiving if things keep going like this. 🙂

    So, for right now…. my CDing is being with my friends and working my candle business. I have parties and vendor shows scheduled, events with friends and family…. life is pretty full right now. 🙂



  29.  #29Azure Blu on October 8, 2015 at 9:39 am

    Indigo…
    Geee… Uggghhh!! Good G*d!!!
    Those questions make me
    feel icky, bored and VERY uninterested in a man who would send questions
    and NOT take the time to find out some of this (some questions are NONE of his business)
    face to face

    I Sooo agree… – “You get some strange and bitter men online.” Blocked him
    AND
    NEXT!!!
    ;-))



  30.  #30April Rose on October 8, 2015 at 9:41 am

    Turquoise,

    I feel mad, bad and angry reading this
    “But all three of the guys I was talking to said the same thing, zero interest talking to a woman dating other men.”

    I feel a raging FIRE in my belly. A chaos that threatens to erupt.

    When oh when will I find a WAY to convey and EXPRESS in a feminine way to myself first and then to men, how DELICIOUS it feels, how safe and nurturing and secure and happy-feeling it would be if this very simple thing could be understood:

    *that I am a high quality woman taking care of herself.
    *that I want a real and full relationship with a high quality man.
    *so therefore I need to be available until that man makes himself known to me, and shows me the quality of his character by means of his actions over an extended period of time.
    *And an intelligent quality man will realise that if I do this process with men ONE AT A TIME, I may be A HUNDRED YEARS OLD before my complementary match shows up.

    Sooo, can a man be humble enough to accept that he may not be your ‘one’? And yet give it his best shot.
    Which to me implies that of course there will be other other suitors in the picture.

    Why am I raging? Because this is NOT deemed ordinary or COMMON PRACTICE.

    WHY NOT? (I am screaming now!!!!)



  31.  #31Indigo on October 8, 2015 at 9:44 am

    Azure Blu,

    That is what I told him… That I felt confident in myself and knew I was a great catch and that I reveal these things slowly over time to men who are worthy and put in the time and effort. That his questions felt extremely icky and like an interrogation and I would not be answering them. Goodbye!



  32.  #32Azure Blu on October 8, 2015 at 9:46 am

    Turquios #26
    My this man does sound lovely…

    I can see that you each have commitments that keep your relationship from going too quickly…

    IMHO I have found some men are masters of phone conversations… Talk is easy and requires little action…

    I’m sure you are being careful.
    I find I can get carried away by a mans sweet,
    Charming compliments, promises, laughter
    caring comments etc.

    I have learned to monitor my phone closeness
    to match the amount of actual time we spend together on dates, face to face
    Which, for me, is the most important way
    to REALLY know someone!



  33.  #33Azure Blu on October 8, 2015 at 9:51 am

    Indigo #29
    LOVE your statement to him!!!
    PERFECT!
    oxoxo



  34.  #34April Rose on October 8, 2015 at 9:53 am

    I just wish I could hold that in myself without getting stressed out thinking I have to explain it to men.
    It gets me all up in my head.



  35.  #35Azure Blu on October 8, 2015 at 10:02 am

    April Rose #28
    i sooo agree!!
    In the early 1900 hundreds and before
    in this country
    OF COURSE women had multiple men
    courting her
    and men also were courting other women…

    I have learned to say out front with any man whom I see more than 2 0r 3 times,
    I believe
    IT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO SAY THIS IN THE BEGINNING
    Softly and smiling
    “Ohhh… you know we are both on a dating site…
    I am dating others
    so i imagine you are dating others also,,,
    I am a quality woman and I’m looking for a “complimentary match” (I love how you said this)
    I’m excited to find out if it might be us…
    which takes time. What are your thoughts?”

    All my cds do NOT like it that i’m dating others
    but I finally have gotten the vibe of “I’m not in a hurry and this is how it is”
    They may pull back for a little while but they usually all come back.
    And if they say they’ll only date me if we’re exclusive
    sometimes (if i’ve dated them 2 months or more and find they may have BIG potential)
    I’ll say ok
    BUT lately
    I keep putting them off.
    Cause I’m not sure yet.



  36.  #36Azure Blu on October 8, 2015 at 10:13 am

    I also like FW idea #19

    of sharing with your man
    Let’s be exclusive for a couple of months
    and see how things go..
    then revisit how things are going then
    and if we want to continue!!

    To me it would indicate if the man is able to talk about the relationship… takes the pressure off both people
    and a great opportunity to share how each is feeling
    in 2 months!!

    I’ve never done anything like this…
    I am feeling inspired…
    as i have 2 men wanting exclusivity!
    I’ll meditate on it!

    Thank you FW!!!



  37.  #37Dixie on October 8, 2015 at 12:55 pm

    Azure,

    Thank you for your response! In fact, I’ve been feeling very triggered by a few insecurities lately and yesterday I really just needed a good cry. When D. texted me to confirm plans for last night, I just told him the truth, that I was feeling a bit emotional and my confidence was feeling low. He was very loving, and funnily enough, because I’ve tried to be more authentic even when texting, he mimics that too on some level, so he texted back “Oh sweetness, your guy is coming!”

    Corny to some maybe, but it felt sweet to hear that in his voice. And whenever we part, he always says he loves me.

    But yeah, with all these strange feelings popping up, it’s been a lesson in just being easy with myself….

    I’ve given up leaning forward because leaning back feels better, more satisfying and feminine. It sure brings up some intense anxiousness at times, but even that is no where near where I was a year ago.



  38.  #38Taylor on October 8, 2015 at 3:21 pm

    Go for it be you self kiss him out of know where he will like you



  39.  #39blueyedgirl on October 8, 2015 at 4:07 pm

    Dominique from two threads ago..

    Thank you for the boost. I have, again, taken what you said and am starting to take care of me more now.

    xoxo



  40.  #40blueyedgirl on October 8, 2015 at 4:14 pm

    Here’s the thing…

    If we love us, even if not completely, how can they love us? My husband for example is mightily angry with me. I can see it, I get it. Instead of trying to fix it, I am leaning waaayy back and doing for myself. I think I can lean even farther back. I am finding, however, that I am feeling sad about the lack of connection even though he isn’t in a good space as of right now. He is highly triggered and it isn’t just at me.

    But what is coming up for me right now and I know this is part of my “now” healing job; is that I am VERY angry at him. I am angry as hell at him right now for all of the ways he has mis-treated me and taken our commitment to one another and pee’d right on it.

    What I really want to know is how do I settle this within myself. And, how can I express this in a loving, kind yet firm way without making him feel blamed. Does this make sense?

    I am damn angry and it keeps coming up because I have felt unheard, unseen, unsafe and I need to feel the opposite of that.

    How does one ever hope to save a marriage, improve on it and grow within it if these things keep getting shoved under the rug only to bubble up again.

    I don’t get how to do this.

    At All.



  41.  #41Divar on October 8, 2015 at 6:16 pm

    I understand how you feel Blueyedgirl. I really feel for you. I am in a similar situation. First I felt really angry at my husband’s withdrawn behaviors. Then I did Rori’s going through the tunnel exercise and I felt very sad below the anger. I found it hard to try out other Rori’s tools until I really experienced my anger and sadness completely.
    Then I visited my Strangers within (exercise from Toxic Men) which really helped me to unearth all of the toxin within my mind. I am feeling so much lighter now.
    In the past few days, I started dating myself and treated myself nice lunches, spas and massages. My resentment towards my husband dropped dramatically. What I realized is I was not treating myself good enough, especially after being a mom. I have been prioritizing my daughter’s and family’s needs before mine. A big part of my sadness actually came from that.
    Although I won’t say I succeed in reconnecting my marriage yet, I am definitely reconnecting with myself and that feels amazing! My husband took me out for a massage and lunch date yesterday out of the blue. I used Feeling messages, Rori’s dance position during the date. He used to ignore me completely and his behind his phone. But he leaned forward and talked this time. So I think there are some small changes happening. I hope the tools that I used will help you too.
    Good luck girl!



  42.  #42Itchy_witch on October 8, 2015 at 9:48 pm

    I need help here. I am practicing feeling messages. Guys and me normally use text to communicate because my work is busy and cannot have regular date due to my schedule. When I reply their text, I use “I feel….”. But the one I like most text me today. He said, don’t keep using the word “feels”.. It’s weird. All right?

    What should I do? Stop sending feeling messages to him?



  43.  #43Indigo on October 8, 2015 at 10:09 pm

    blueeyedgirl,

    Would you like to share with us the ways you feel you have been mistreated, and why you feel unheard, unseen, unsafe and angry? Sharing or journalling the feelings can help immensely to get clarity or to shift them.



  44.  #44Millie on October 8, 2015 at 11:13 pm

    I deleted his messages. Step 1. And I felt nothing when I did. I thought it would hurt but instead it felt like moisture evaporating off a car. He disappeared and like him, so did the messages, into thin air. It doesn’t exist anymore. I still have some of his stuff. I have t opened the box since I put the stuff in it and shoved it into the cupboard. I’ll get to dealing with that… One thing at a time.

    Indigo— wow those questions are intense !!!! I think part of the joy in getting to know someone is asking those questions in person and hearing an authentic response. But what I hear also in his questions is the fear we all have… Of being hurt. I think he ultimately came up with those to protect himself. That doesn’t make it any better, but I can understand his purpose in doing it.

    So it’s my birthday this weekend and I’ve been putting off planning anything. I think part of the reason why is because I feel uncomfortable when all if the attention is on me, I always have, I also am scared no one will show up to an event I’ve planned. So I didn’t plan anything until today. It’s dumb because people have always come to my parties in the past, but I already find myself wondering if it will be fun enough, good enough, if the right mix of people will show up…. If people will just ignore it. What a life of worrying I have….
    I just have never felt like one of the “cool kids” and in the back of my mind I still freak out about that… Even though most of my friends weren’t the cool kids either… They are artists and eccentrics… They made themselves cool.

    Anyway, hoping to be glowing and meet some new people along the way this wknd!



  45.  #45Indigo on October 8, 2015 at 11:38 pm

    Millie,

    I understand that was his intention as well, but he doesn’t realise in doing so he is alienating a good woman. It is not fair to put new people through a series of tests and treat them with defensiveness simply because you’ve been hurt by someone else in the past. It simply stops you getting to know each other authentically. There is no way to circumvent the risk of pain when you get into a new relationship. But in any case it is WAY too early to even be thinking about that when you are just emailing online!! Whatever happened to, so what kind of music do you like?



  46.  #46Millie on October 8, 2015 at 11:54 pm

    Indigo– I know I completely agree!!
    One guy told me that I sounded “normal.” I asked him what does “abnormal” sound like? He said most women ask him right out of the gate about marriage and he feels like he’s being hunted by husband hunters hahah. I agree, yes it’s good and necessary to discuss that but first question is prob not the best time.



  47.  #47Victoria on October 9, 2015 at 12:15 am

    Indigo,
    May I have your permission to give you a different view on the questions?
    I think his list is a very good summary of what men would like to find out about the women they meet online, and an indication of what traits he uses to categorize people. I also think that there are many ways to answer the questions – one way would be to partially aswer some, and for the others say – this is a question which has a very long answer, may be I will tell you some day if we get to the point of having a certian level of friendship between us.
    Question 12 is irrelevant and basically something to distract your attention so that you could be fully shocked by 13 – obviously this is the only question that is blatantly rude, and it screams that the guy is socially incompetent (possibly very young?)
    Personally, I would not be offended, but would probably have a really good time making fun of his questions and turning them back on him. I know, you are hyper-sensitive, and I am thick-skinned, to which their own :-).
    You know, I also have a list of questions, things I would like to quickly find out about men, of course I would not ask them point-blank, but I think I can share it with you, may be you can tell me what you think
    1. How much money are you making and what savings do you have. Mind you, I am not looking for someone to provide for me, but I need to know what level of financial responsibility he has, and if he is broke… oh well, never again.
    2. How informed are you about what makes good s*x for a woman. Would you go the extra mile to make sure your partner has the time of her life?
    3. What are your expectations for the roles of man and woman in a marriage/cohabitation. Who does what?
    Question 4, a very important one
    Are you willing to do the leg work to court a woman and fight for her or have you been so hurt and discouraged that you wouldn’t bother again? and, a very important 5
    Do you think I am hot enough for you to give a positive answer to 4, or shall we just not waste each other’s time?
    Sorry, forgot to ask about the music, that tells a lot by the way, especially where I live.
    How have you been?



  48.  #48Millie on October 9, 2015 at 12:46 am

    Victoria your post is pretty awesome! I wish I could send those questions out!!! I kind of want to test it…

    I reread his again and actually felt differently…. Whether he is protecting himself or not, they came across very accusatory. Ewl.



  49.  #49Victoria on October 9, 2015 at 1:12 am

    Oh Millie,
    If you mail my questions out, I am sure men will find them accusatory. It’s as if, I am assuming there is a change that he is pennyless, has no clue about s*x, and wouln’t lift a finger around the house… The questions are not accusatory per se, but could be interepreted very differently, depending on your own experience.



  50.  #50Femininewoman on October 9, 2015 at 2:09 am

    Victoria I like your take on it



  51.  #51Indigo on October 9, 2015 at 2:13 am

    Victoria,

    I am extremely well thank you 🙂 Continuing to date and have fun with lovely men until I meet my man 🙂

    As always, I ADORE your sassy, playful attitude! I think it would be totally awesome to do that with a man if I had the energy or inclination. But alas, so many men, so little time! To be honest, what put me off about this guy was the thudding, hard-pressed feeling I had in my chest when I looked at his profile or read his messages. He had plenty of pictures of himself with another woman for a start. But beyond that, I have learned to trust that feeling. It says that this person is all wrong for me and I simply walk away.

    Yay! I have another date tonight with the guy from Wednesday night! And Bush Boy has been texting me! Yay!



  52.  #52lilybelly on October 9, 2015 at 2:23 am

    Indigo,

    # 38
    I decided to go back to my original name, the name that some of you know me by. I was embarrassed when I first posted the other day so changed my name.

    I was embarrassed because of how I perceive being a failure in my marriage and didn’t want you all, those of you who knew me, to know. So, I am “coming out.” And, I feel scared to do so.

    I made a mistake. My heart so wanted to believe the words I was being told but I really think I made a mistake.

    My husband, whom I completely love, lets be clear about that… had an emotional affair with me over the course of last year and when I found out.. (She told me, the poor girl didn’t know he was married because he lied to her too and we were engaged when they met) he tried to find a way to help me to feel safe and started being who I thought he was and who he showed me to be in the beginning. He stopped leaving me alone overnight. He has ptsd so he would often leave to clear his head but I was a bit too trusting in that eventually, he met and started taking away time with the girl. He gave me the code to his phone, he was attentive and giving and really did try to start to fix the mess he created. Things would be good but then something would creep up and I would feel the pain and mistrust all over again. I realized and knew that I had a lot of healing to do so I went to a counselor.

    That was not the right person as she told me I was co-dependent and border line bi-polar. She didn’t hear me so that turned me off and I didn’t look for another to help me work through the pain and heartbreak.

    Fast forward to now.. I am still harboring the anger and hurt;

    How could he have lied to me like that; over and over and over again and HOW could I have believed it all…over and over and over. I even think that I was gas-lighted some.

    I am angry at myself.
    I am angry at him for lying and having this emotional affair.
    I am angry that I feel he still can’t tell me the truth.
    I am angry that I feel paralyzed and can’t make decisions about what to do.
    I am angry that I am letting finances rule my decision.
    I am angry that I was mistreated emotionally, in the worst way possible, in my book.
    I am angry because I have felt unseen and unheard; “you need to let this go”, “I am not hiding anything”, “you’ll never get over this”, “you still don’t trust me” and it goes on.

    I have gotten to the point where I have been almost done with it and put it behind me, but then something comes up in the now that feels odd or doesn’t make sense.. “where he has been” ( he doesn’t think I should ask him where he has been for an entire day)

    And now, it feels much the same as it did a year ago.
    I strongly suspect he was with someone on Tuesday; the things he said he did just didn’t match up and again, last week when I was traveling for business.. He was MIA in the evening and I didn’t hear from him until “he found his phone charging in the car.” He doesn’t lose his phone. In the five years we have been together, he has never lost his phone.

    I am angry, my feelings don’t seem to matter and I feel scared and uncertain and a bit lost.

    I came to this blog again because I had grown so much when I was here and am hoping to find my strength again and find some ways to be healthy in all of this. My life is all over the pages of this blog..I read through some of that last night and the tears fell big time.

    I feel vulnerable and again, scared to be sharing all of this. There is more but that can come when I feel a bit safer.

    It is the middle of the night and my mind seems to think it needs to be making decisions that my heart can’t make.



  53.  #53lilybelly on October 9, 2015 at 2:30 am

    #47

    *had an emotional affair.
    not with me. lol

    And, is it so awful to admit that I want to hire a PI and get the cold hard truth? I know that snooping isn’t a good thing for finding the truth and that the truth always comes out. Looking around here would prove pointless as everything is locked up tighter than a drum and I have no access to it.



  54.  #54lilybelly on October 9, 2015 at 3:49 am

    I have just spent the last part of the middle of the night re-reading myself in the pages of this blog.

    I strongly desire to get back the ME I was then. I need guidance and assistance to do so.



  55.  #55Victoria on October 9, 2015 at 3:51 am

    Indigo,
    I really love this, so many men, so little time!!!Yes, yes, yes.
    What happened with the guy from work? I was very hopeful for this one for you, for some strange reason.



  56.  #56Victoria on October 9, 2015 at 3:58 am

    lilybelly,
    I don’t know you because I have been on the blog only for an year or so, and I know nothing about your story.
    What struck me in your post was that you were embarassed to share here because you consider yourself a failure.
    We all do lilybelly… you have come to the right place. No one will judge you here for not being able to achieve what you dreamed of. This is how we all are.
    What we do to each other here is to remind each other that we need to exercise love for ourselves first and foremost. And, not to judge yourself, not to beat yourself up, to really really love yourself and be very fogiving and very nurturing to yourself. How about that?



  57.  #57Lilybelly on October 9, 2015 at 4:04 am

    Thank you for the reminder, Victoria.

    This blog and community of women helped me over the years in more ways than I can count.

    Still, the fear is very real so first, I will work on letting that go.



  58.  #58Victoria on October 9, 2015 at 4:07 am

    lilybelly,
    what are you afraid of? it is ok to tell, and usually helps



  59.  #59Azure Blu on October 9, 2015 at 4:19 am

    lilybelly,
    Ohhh… welcome lovely Siren!!!

    How brave of you to share and to be so authentic…
    You have been here before (before me)
    so you know how comforting, loving and supportive
    Siren Island is…

    When I have been despondent and very heart broken and confused I have worked with some of Rori’s coaches and they have helped
    SOOO much!
    Have you considered that?
    Tatia Dee is offering some really good deals right now…

    I certainly think you are taking some really good steps to get back to YOU…

    When I was beyond heart broken I know that
    Reading thru Rori’s archived posts and threads and answering posts and sharing me here on Siren Island
    soothed my soul…
    Brought me back to me
    and helped me to learn to LOVE myself

    Feminine Woman had an inspirational posts
    the :Wonder Woman: stand
    Stand up tall
    with your feet apart
    hands on your hip
    chest out
    head High
    and your cape blowing in the wind
    and say
    “I CAN DO THIS!!!”
    It works!!
    love and hugss



  60.  #60Azure Blu on October 9, 2015 at 4:25 am

    Indigo #47
    You are sounding Very sassy, flirty and
    light hearted!!!
    Yay for all your cding
    and having fun
    while you dance YOUR life on your horse
    down your path
    while living NOW your happily ever after!!
    Ooxoxo!!!



  61.  #61Lilybelly on October 9, 2015 at 4:27 am

    #53 Victoria,

    Scared of feeling vulnerable yet, I know in my heart that is what I need to do. It means that I must open my heart and let all of the pain and hurt out first. Before I can do anything about the situation.

    I’m scared of letting go of it all. Maybe because I don’t know what will be left.



  62.  #62Lilybelly on October 9, 2015 at 4:30 am

    Azure Blu,

    Thank you for the warm welcome back. I remember you too.

    I have been reading archived posts, even before I started posting again so that is good. I’m taking baby steps.

    Xo



  63.  #63Lilybelly on October 9, 2015 at 4:43 am

    … or who I will be if I let it all go. I will no longer be the woman who was deeply betrayed by the person she loves the most.
    I will be just a shell.

    But, I will no longer be beating the drum of that story.

    Scary stuff.

    Clearly, I have not forgiven.



  64.  #64Femininewoman on October 9, 2015 at 5:34 am

    Lilybelly!!!! 🙂 🙂

    Feels so good to see your posts this morning



  65.  #65Femininewoman on October 9, 2015 at 5:37 am

    blueyedgirl that’s you Lilybelly?? Oh and you did get married. You know we believe in you. Have you been in touch with Dominique?



  66.  #66Femininewoman on October 9, 2015 at 5:46 am

    LilyB baby I just read through your comments . Do you know about Bob Huizenga? His writing is about Put an End to Your Marriage Crisis. He has a book Break Free From the Affair. That was what came to mind to share with you. He writes a lot about rebuilding trust his blog is break-free-from-the-affair.com. You might find some solace if you check him out.



  67.  #67Femininewoman on October 9, 2015 at 5:47 am

    (((((((((((Lilybelly)))))))))))))



  68.  #68Zara on October 9, 2015 at 6:10 am


  69.  #69Zara on October 9, 2015 at 6:12 am

    Lilybelly

    I also find interesting Femininewoman’s feed back in 2012.

    Lilybelly’s post
    *****https://blog.havetherelationshipyouwant.com/dating/chasing-a-man-never-works/#comment-224964 *****

    And Femininewoman’s feed back
    *****https://blog.havetherelationshipyouwant.com/dating/chasing-a-man-never-works/#comment-224966 *****

    xxx



  70.  #70Zara on October 9, 2015 at 6:20 am

    Sorry about the inactive links in my previous post.
    Here are the active links from 2012:

    Lilybelly’s post
    ***** https://blog.havetherelationshipyouwant.com/dating/chasing-a-man-never-works/#comment-224964 *****

    And Femininewoman’s feed back
    ***** https://blog.havetherelationshipyouwant.com/dating/chasing-a-man-never-works/#comment-224966 *****

    xxx



  71.  #71Zara on October 9, 2015 at 6:24 am

    Lilybelly

    From the betrayal thread in 2011
    ***** If that happened to me, I wouldn’t want to stay with ME either. *****

    From this thread today
    *****My husband, whom I completely love, lets be clear about that… had an emotional affair with ME over the course of last year*****

    I feel intrigued to read the same lapsus around the pronoun “ME”, in both quotes, years apart. And I feel intrigued that the first lapsus was written in a post on a blog about overcoming betrayal.

    xxx



  72.  #72Zara on October 9, 2015 at 6:25 am

    Lilybelly

    Your assessment of your husband on today’s thread:
    ****He has ptsd*****

    Your advice to a siren, in 2012:
    *****https://blog.havetherelationshipyouwant.com/dating/chasing-a-man-never-works/#comment-225320 *****

    xxx



  73.  #73Zara on October 9, 2015 at 6:28 am

    Lilybelly

    Sorry about the inactive link again in my previous post.
    Here is the active link:
    https://blog.havetherelationshipyouwant.com/dating/chasing-a-man-never-works/#comment-225320

    xxx



  74.  #74Lilybelly on October 9, 2015 at 6:41 am

    Hugging you both so tight:

    (((((Zara and FW)))))

    I can’t tell you how pleased I feel that Zara has gently reminded me of me. And, I also thank you for the gentle reminder about illness.

    I feel safe to be back in the arms of this community of women.

    And FW, I haven’t heard from Dominique just yet, but suspect I will.

    I have spent a lot of time reading the blog over the last couple of days and am remembering some of what I have forgotten.

    I am still trying to figure out first steps but I do think that has to come with what I said above about letting all the pain and hurt out and coming to peace with everything that has happened.

    I am not feeling proud of myself but need to stop the internal beating I have been giving myself.

    And I still believe there is an underlying reason for an affair. It must be something that is lacking within me that he needed that I do not give him. In the midst of our discussions, this did come out but he emphatically stated it wasn’t me and he didn’t know “why” he did it.

    I still believe there is something in me lacking.



  75.  #75Zara on October 9, 2015 at 7:43 am

    Copy-pasted from the “overcoming betrayal together” article:

    ______________________________
    We know we caused a big commotion a few months back when we commented that in our opinion a man who cheats will do so again…with that same woman.
    We’d like to set the record straight about that, and about all breaches of trust.
    A man who cheats on a woman is unlikely to be faithful to that woman forever.
    The reason for this is that there is something unfulfilling at the core of this relationship and the cheating is/was a symptom of that core mismatch.
    We don’t think the situation is hopeless, however we do believe that dramatic changes need to happen in order for the relationship to survive.
    This is not something that can change quickly or without effort. There’s a shift that must take place for BOTH parties to rectify and move on – TOGETHER.
    If you find that you are married to a man who cheated, and he is begging your forgiveness and wants to stay…here are some parameters for you:
    1. Do not rush to forgiveness.
    Our emotions are so very important and they must be expressed in order to truly value ourselves.
    Often times, we do not want conflict, and so it common to rush into forgiveness.
    When we rush to forgiveness we devalue ourselves and our feelings.
    We are saying to our partner that we are willing to deny our feelings in order to keep this relationship alive.
    That is a recipe for anger and resentment.

    First , FEEL everything you are feeling.
    Express how you feel with “I” statements.
    Utilize all of the tools here on the blog that work with expressing your emotions authentically.
    It will be easy to stumble in blaming language, especially when you are angry and hurt.
    Your job is to express how you are feeling and to take responsibility for those feelings.

    2. Take some space.
    Ask him to stay at a hotel for X amount of time.
    This is really okay.
    You need space to feel your grief, anger, betrayal, etc and having him around the house is just going to make it worse.
    You may be worried about losing him if you do this.
    Just know that if he wants to save the relationship then he will be willing to honor this request.
    If he isn’t willing to abide by your wishes then he probably isn’t worth keeping around.
    To be honest, if you’re going to “lose” him, he’ll go regardless of your requests and your actions.
    3. Honor how you feel.
    Feel the pain of it and nurture yourself at the same time.
    This may seem like a contradiction, however it is not.

    Take good care of yourself by doing things that allow you to feel whatever you are feeling in the moment.
    Take walks, hikes, bike rides, bubble baths… just be with yourself and allow those feeling to flow through you.

    It may feel overwhelming at times, but you are capable of handling much more than you know.
    When you try to avoid your feelings and keep things under control then you are going to have trouble moving on from this event.
    If you want to save the relationship, or if you want to be able to move on to another relationship, then you have to process your feelings around this event.
    The goal is to move THROUGH your emotions not gloss over them.
    4. Start practicing forgiveness.
    Once you feel you have a handle on the grief, now start looking at forgiving him.
    Start having some conversations with him and express how you are feeling in the moment (not about what was, but what is right now).
    If he wants to make a go of it and you agree to do that (here is the very important part) – Really forgive him and move on.
    To be in forgiveness means that it’s behind you. Open your heart to your man, and see him for who he is, and how you feel when you spend time together.
    Trust is not on a dimmer switch. Either we trust someone, or we do not.
    So if you’re going to go for it, jump in with both feet and TRUST!
    If worry is something that comes up for you and it is making you anxious, work with a professional to get support for yourself.
    It is important to have an outlet to discuss your worry (and let’s be honest, if this is where you are getting stuck this pattern of worry has been holding you back in all areas of your life – and this is a great opportunity to release this old pattern that is not serving you.)
    5. Set up the rules for moving forward.
    Ask for what you need. Tell the truth.
    It’s perfectly okay to say, “If this ever happens again, you will not have another chance. We will be done.”
    Spell it out in your words, in your way – and here is the very hard part – HONOR THAT agreement!
    What often happens is that we pick up where we left off in the relationship in a few months… and old habits are difficult to break…but not impossible.
    Honor yourself by not falling into sacrifice in the relationship. Know what your needs are, express them, expect him to meet your needs.
    6. Clearly explain what you expect from him.
    He needs to take action to earn your trust.
    Whether it is in learning to express his feelings and ask for what he needs, if you want him to seek help or if you want both of you to seek help, it is ok to ask that he take certain actions to show his desire to repair the relationship.
    Hold him to these agreements. Be clear on what your deal breakers are and stick to them. It is important for him to know that there are consequences for his actions.
    When you do this then there is no need to be snooping for things, or to be worried about what he may or may not do.
    Be clear on what YOU are doing and, how you are feeling when you spend time with him.
    Know the saying “what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger?”
    This is most certainly true in relationship. This could be an amazing opportunity to re-engineer the relationship and create something fabulous!
    ________________________________

    xxx



  76.  #76CuriousGeorge on October 9, 2015 at 7:52 am

    “How does one ever hope to save a marriage, improve on it and grow within it if these things keep getting shoved under the rug only to bubble up again.”

    Lillybelly~~ first off, lots of love and hugs to you. And secondly, you CAN’T shove things under the rug and keep the closeness you once had. You can’t. That resentment between you has to be resolved, with empathy and understanding as the drivers. Then healing can begin…



  77.  #77Divar on October 9, 2015 at 8:10 am

    Victoria,
    I love your questions and your playful attitude in dating, which we all need. You are definitely a Diva!
    Indigo,
    I agree that you should follow your feelings. I feel that this guy may be a womanizer if he enjoys collecting photos with different girls.



  78.  #78Indigo on October 10, 2015 at 3:15 am

    Victoria,

    No further progress on the guy from work… yet.



  79.  #79Azure Blu on October 10, 2015 at 9:48 am

    Lillybelly

    I was struck by this small part of all that Zara shared in her last post…
    “A man who cheats on a woman is unlikely to be faithful to that woman forever.
    The reason for this is that there is something unfulfilling
    at the core
    of this relationship
    and the cheating is/was a symptom
    of that core mismatch.
    We don’t think the situation is hopeless, however we do believe that dramatic changes need to happen in order for the relationship to survive.”

    “Core mismatch” implies it isn’t ONE PERSONS ISSUE
    that caused this infidelity…

    My thoughts are (based on why I have had affairs on men when I was younger)
    It is the dance that We Both participate in
    that caused this!
    Feeling Unloved… no interest in what I am doing or what I like… etc…
    BUT I also had a part in it!
    Just my thoughts!



  80.  #80shelley brown on October 23, 2015 at 9:44 am

    This Shelley. I feel accepting get back together again . what he want . I will won’t angry him and myself really so stress things a lot other problems that is all . I will say love you any time go head…… Thank you so much,
    Shelley…



  81.  #81Femininewoman on November 10, 2015 at 10:03 am

    Hi CuriousGeorge. Are you a coach?