When You’re Under Attack From Yourself…

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navigationErica says, “I was in love with a man who drove me crazy. Chased me down, got me, and then drove me crazy pulling away.”

Then Erica got physically sick with a rare autoimmune disorder.

“I was angry so much of the time. I finally told him to shove it, and I’m still sick and alone.”

Isn’t this the ultimate in attack?

I have an autoimmune disorder too, and so does my daughter and almost everybody I know.

What is that other than attack?

Attack of the body itself on the body itself?

I think sometimes, when we’re always attacking ourselves verbally and emotionally and psychologically – it just translates into our body.

And yet, you cannot blame yourself for that.

Yes, it’s such a conundrum.

We say: “I caused this autoimmune disease. I’ve got to blame myself.”

“I brought in this man, I’ve got to blame myself.”

“I got fooled by this man, I have to blame myself.”

“He’s withdrawing, I have to blame myself.”

I know that when I SAW I had to get over that – though things started to change very, very quickly in many ways, on many levels – it was still a huge WAR inside me to simply give up on blaming, punishing, castigating myself!

I had to actually, in a deeper way – “get” what it FELT like to just “leave off” the blame, shame, punishing, castigating, vigilant habits I’d developed over my whole life.

I really want you to see how this is just a cycle, a habit, and give you a quick cure, here.

Yes – You can’t beat yourself up for anything.

Anytime you start to beat yourself up, yes, you’ve got to stop it.

You can’t let that happen.

You’ve got to say, “Rori forbids me from beating myself up,” and you’ve got to give the energy to your Inner Boy and say, “Boy, please protect me.”

Your Inner Boy, once he’s been given permission to take care of you, will not allow anybody to beat up that Girl inside.

All this is fantasticand now let’s try another “tack.”

What if the whole entire concept of “attack” can be undone in your mind?

What if there IS no such thing as “attack”?

We already know that all the little workers and cells “attacking” what they believe to be foreign invaders are helping, saving you, protecting you.

So – what if the bacterial invaders, or overgrowers, are not actually “attacking” either?

What if THEY’RE doing something that represents “homeodynamics” to them?

What if cancer cells are creating themselves from a signal that tells them to come “help” somewhere?

What if a soldier is fueled by something inside that isn’t the urge to “attack.”

What if a “bad person” with a gun isn’t driven by the thought of “attack”?

Let’s just say that something else is the “action” here – and that we don’t know what it is all the time.

So – if there’s a gray area here – an opening around the concept of “attack” – here’s the benefit:

If we lessen the idea of “attack” in the world and inside us – then we defend ourselves less.

And what does that get us?


Most of us see that as a bad thing. As an opening in the armor so the “bad stuff” can get in.

Most of us would like to be zipped up in bio suits if they weren’t so uncomfortable and confining.

Protective gear.

And yet – isn’t that what we do with our heart?

Wear protective gear always, in advance, for “attack” we assume is coming?

And then after we’ve been “attacked” we blame ourselves for letting down our guard.

So – regardless of what’s real or actual, or true – let’s just go with what works best for us to be happy.

If we blame ourselves for allowing an attack, then we’re always preparing ourselves for even more attack.

We’re learning the language and visuals of attack, and carving it in our hearts and minds.

We’re living in the land of attack, feint, joust, hit, back off, shields up, fists, contract, go small, guns ready…

And…that isn’t a great field for love to grow in.

So – next time you think about what’s out there to attack you, and what’s inside to guard against – just try saying…”Whoa…what if there IS no such thing as “attack”?

And see how that feels.

To me, it’s a huge sigh.

A big let go.

Air comes in.

Let me know how this turns things for you.

Love, Rori




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  1.  #1April Rose on March 9, 2015 at 10:11 am

    Often a ‘call for love’ reads as an attack.

    I have been accused of attacking, when I have been needy and insecure.

  2.  #2April Rose on March 9, 2015 at 10:22 am

    When needy and insecure and frightened that love was not coming towards me, and before I read any of Rori’s work or did the tools, I used to yell and demand like a scared little girl.
    This pushes people away, of course, and some of them perceive it as ‘attack’.

  3.  #3April Rose on March 9, 2015 at 10:25 am

    “Anytime you start to beat yourself up, yes, you’ve got to stop it.

    You can’t let that happen.

    You’ve got to say, “Rori forbids me from beating myself up,” and you’ve got to give the energy to your Inner Boy and say, “Boy, please protect me.”

    Your Inner Boy, once he’s been given permission to take care of you, will not allow anybody to beat up that Girl inside.”

  4.  #4Femininewoman on March 9, 2015 at 11:19 am

    Homeodynamics. I love it.

  5.  #5April Rose on March 9, 2015 at 3:30 pm

    I have been feeling very strange and subtle unusual feelings all day today!

    There is a pair of men’s slippers under my kitchen table.

    He took them off yesterday evening after spending time at my house (yes, he brought slippers with him!) and asked if he could leave them here for when he comes over.

    I said yes. (I remembered Rori’s ideas about ‘nesting’ a man in our home!)

    This was yesterday evening. He and I have known each other for two and a half weeks!!!

  6.  #6Lovetodance on March 9, 2015 at 9:46 pm

    Rori. I really love this…..once upon a time a lump grew and hid under my breast….I feel it went there because I had been attacking myself with so many thoughts and feelings. It went there to catch all that. Near my womanly parts and heart. It went there to say you must stop you must nurture not Hurt yourself. We are messaging you hello hello hello we are not the enemy there is no enemy …there is the earth you are part of it. Now lay down and be quiet for a long time. Move slow and feel. And heal and take your time now….so I love what you say Rori. I feel it and this here post is a re-minder to be ever so very kind to me. My best friend…..

  7.  #7Emerson on March 9, 2015 at 9:53 pm

    Rori this is so interesting. I have a mild autoimmune disease.
    It started in my teens when I was extremely self hating and self blaming.
    I feel amazed reading this post.
    I intend to be gentle and non blaming toward myself.

  8.  #8Zia on March 9, 2015 at 9:54 pm

    phewf. caught up on the last few days.

    Elsie – loving reading your posts. how you’ve changed compared to when i first came on this blog!! love it! so easy breezy.

    I’m feeling a bit stuck at the moment, not to do with my relationship but because I feel a bit in limbo with my work/business life as it is compared to where I want it to be. I’m part way through my course and while I have gained so much knowledge, I can’t do a lot about it until I graduate. It’s affecting me in my health both physically and mentally, I need to do something to try and shift this stuck-ness…

  9.  #9IamHis on March 10, 2015 at 12:40 am

    Great post. My mom has an autoimmune disease and almost died with it many years ago. It always kind of felt to me like it was a result of neglecting herself and needing so much attention that her body manifested it all.

    People have told me “don’t beat yourself up so much.”

    Now seems like a great time to vow to myself to be gentle and healing towards me.

    Oh, here…let me give those raw emotions a nice hot broth. Let me cradle those hurt feelings and tuck them into bed. Let me stroke and soothe those raw nerves.

  10.  #10Kath on March 10, 2015 at 1:51 am

    I had an amazing visual realisation with a counsellor a few years ago and actually saw the adult me take the hand of my little girl and hug her. It was a hugely emotional moment and made me come to terms with the fact that my child was never nurtured or cared for and that has marked my whole life. I freak out if I don’t feel safe or loved and act out because I am scared and need to feel loved and safe. I lash out and the person on the receiving end perceives it as me attacking- but I’m not- Like April Rose I am crying out for them to hear me and I guess save me from some kind of self destruction.

  11.  #11Indigo on March 10, 2015 at 3:20 am

    So, this feels really exciting – you know how I was saying it’s normal for D to go 2 or 3 days in between contacting me? Well, recently I have noticed this has got closer together. We saw each other on Wednesday night last week, then he contacted me on Friday night, then we spent the bulk of the weekend together (Saturday night to Monday morning), then I saw him briefly yesterday afternoon to pick up my cat and he texted me again last night. Then he Skyped me first thing this morning to let me know that he had fixed my laptop (which I had left at his house over the weekend. I will see him again tonight, and all this contact feels amazing. It hasn’t been this regular in a long, long time. I mean, it has slowly been moving in that direction, but this is heartening for me to see.

    On a side note, recently I have been trying to let us both move at a pace which is comfortable to us. So, because we are both introverted, I haven’t tried to force anything, and obviously this is part of leaning back too. We will both just take space when we need to, and I have just allowed this without worrying. So it is nice to see when we don’t have to take long gaps in between being together.

  12.  #12Lovetodance on March 10, 2015 at 6:26 am

    Indigo I love how you are trusting your own timing and pace with D. It feels very self loving,accepting and knowledgeable of yourself …here’s to that!

  13.  #13Lovetodance on March 10, 2015 at 6:28 am

    I am very much appreciating the Siren’s postings under this topic….I feel the vulnerability and tenderness and it feels healing to me

  14.  #14Elsie on March 10, 2015 at 7:18 am

    Zia – well, thank you for your vote of confidence that I”m easy breezy, but some days are better than others.

    For example, its now been two weeks since I was intimate with CollegeCD. He texted once the next day to ask if I was tierd, and then 5 days later to ask “if I was mad at him” and he is glad I”m not. Then….nothing. NO plans for a date, and for a man who professed to love me, tell me that he has never felt like this with anyone his whole life, and felt more comfortable with me than anyone – its a mutual feeling when we are together. Well, I dont know what to think.

    So my friends are all bugging me to text him, just to find out whats going on – but goodness, this CANT be a miscommunication – I mean, just text me already.

    So on Sat. night I called him. He didnt answer, but he texted quickly back saying that he was with his kids in a movie. I didnt leave a message – and for all he knows it was a pocket dial and unintentional. He texted me again a few hours later something light and cute about setting the clocks the next day.

    And thats it. Now, he may think it was a pocket dial, and I’m just wondering. If this man REALLY wanted me, woudnt he be stepping up to the plate?

    He bothered his friends for MONTHS saying he couldnt stop thinking of me, wants to spend his life with me, and when we were together for those two weeks talking he was already like where are we going to live, etc.

    And now, crickets. I dont know what to think. I”m fine – look, I’m fine. I’m not panicking or upset or freaking out or crying.

    I’m just confused and dont know what to do. Clearly this man knows that I never text or call first. He has never had a problem in the past years texting or calling me first, so my only assumption is that he isnt texting or calling because he doesnt want to – but that is so incongruent with what he actually was telling all his friends for months, and telling me over and over, and that he was so happy he finally has me back and we can just start again.

    Thoughts as to how to handle this, sirens?

  15.  #15Indigo on March 10, 2015 at 8:12 am


    I just wanted to answer your question instinctively, so I hope you don’t mind.

    My first thought was, “rubber band man”. I know Leigha Lake suggests giving your man 8 weeks to miss you. If you haven’t already, I would highly recommend going over to Leigha’s site (she’s a Rori Raye coach) because she has some really great stuff for when your man seems to be withdrawing. I just love how she communicates the whole idea of being strong, yet soft.

    My second thought was, how have things been between you other than this? Have you been using positive feeling messages and showing appreciation when he does something you like? Him asking if you were mad at him seems to suggest that maybe he doesn’t think things are totally great.

    Finally, I think leaning forward *very* sparingly is ok if you’ve been together a while and you have no attachment to the outcome. He may be taking some time and space to himself to figure things out and, in my opinion, the best thing you can do is let him take his space and express your feelings simply without judgment or criticism when he does come back again. For what it’s worth I think this happens a lot (I have experienced it) – a man expresses his feelings for you because it felt true in the moment, and then he has to go and take some time to think to what extent he meant it.

    Good luck

  16.  #16Indigo on March 10, 2015 at 8:16 am

    By the way, Elsie, my second paragraph was because Leigha talks about “building good moments first” when you first get back together.

  17.  #17Elsie on March 10, 2015 at 8:57 am

    Ok – well, the problem is that we WERE apart for 8 months. HE was pining for me and wanted me back. So, there you go – 8 MONTHS. So, then he gets me back, and what? I’m supposed to wait another 8 weeks. This is nuts. He and I only had two dates, and he was already talking about homes, etc.

    I have no idea why he asked if I was mad at him. He didnt contact me for 5 days after being intimate, so thats why. I have no idea why he wouldnt contact me. It makes no sense.

    And yes, I was trying to build good moments. I wasnt talking aobut our future – HE WAS. I was sort of avoiding the topic to be honest because I wanted to create good moments.

    This is a very emotional man. Not a type A dominant personality. Overwhelmed easily. Which may not be my cup of tea. I have no idea why he asked me that – or why he hasnt contacted me.

    The whole hting is strange.

  18.  #18Lovetodance on March 10, 2015 at 9:32 am

    Elsie. Coming from a rubber band woman myself. Intimacy is scarey and I because of ambivalence will need to go away and feel what I feel until I feel I can be upen again. I am trying to love this in me and not the nv’s have their way with me.
    It always works best for me when the other person just takes their space and stops contacting me. I do have much judgement on myself for this
    But it’s what I’m seeing for myself.

  19.  #19Azure Blu on March 10, 2015 at 9:50 am

    I agree with Indigo…
    Dominique has said that if you have a longer history together to go ahead and ask some of these questions you are wondering about…
    You loved spending the time together, you have missed him… and you are feeling curious about why you haven’t heard from him…
    If he has been saying allllll of those lovely things about you to his friends… he might want to hear more encouragement from you…

  20.  #20Elsie on March 10, 2015 at 9:54 am

    OK – I love you girls. But you know what? The more I sit here and think about this – the thought that occurs to me is this….WHY. Why am I sitting here worried about HIS feelings, his thoughts. He isnt concerned one whit about me, and how I am taking this. I have known this man since I was 18. He knows that I dont do intimacy for sport. He knows how meaningful it all was for me.

    He texted me to find out if I was mad at him to assuage his own guilt. His own guilt of not contacting me. He knew it was wrong.

    Once finding out I wasnt mad, he didnt delve further, because he DIDNT CARE about my feelings. He is unconcerned. He know how I am – emotional and vulnerable.

    Who knows why he isnt calling or texting. But the bottom line is – do I want someone to be in my life that is selfish – thinking only of his own feelings, but not mine, when he KNOWS what he did hurt me? And if he doesnt know – HOW IN THE WORLD does he not know after dating me off and on for 2 years and knowing me since 18. he knows. He just doesnt care.

    He cares about himself. its why I broke up with him the last two times. Ugh.

  21.  #21Posie on March 10, 2015 at 12:36 pm

    Elsie, this is a very grey area in my mind. I think in this situation I mighty be careful about making any interpretations about what his mixed messages may or may not mean. There’s really no way of knowing that without directly asking AND assuming that if you did ask, you’d get a clear and truthful response.

    I’m not saying you should or shouldn’t ask him, just maybe go easy on yourself about ruminating on what it all means from his side.

    How do you feel? I know Rori doesn’t advocate leaning in, or closure talks…. But in this case I myself might take time to think about a note to send. If I really fee like I wanted to explore this further with him, I’d probably try and do some serious self reflection about what was bugging me, where I was feeling vulnerable, and what I wanted. Then I’d thibj f a way to communicate that short and sweet without blaming.

    Hard to say without knowing your relationship. But someone talked earlier about an unzippered heart. I liked that idea. And if I was able to be super sincere and soft, I wouldn’t mind making a quiet approach on this one. My two cents….

  22.  #22Azure Blu on March 10, 2015 at 1:49 pm

    I vote for super, Siren Soft…
    unzippered heart…
    explore deeply what triggers are being brought up to be healed…
    what a great opportunity to
    feelings of
    love them all… they are begging to be cherished…
    just saying…
    because all of mine are needing
    warm huggs and understanding.

  23.  #23Emerson on March 10, 2015 at 2:10 pm

    Sirens I need your advice…
    How do you suggest I respond when a man texts and asks my 1. how was my weekend and 2. if I have plans today….
    I know I don’t do last minute plans and I can think of a few feeling messages about the weekend…but
    I am drawing a blank on something fresh to say…

    This is someone I feel interested in and curious about…so I do want to see him at some point.

  24.  #24Posie on March 10, 2015 at 2:13 pm

    Emerson, if he wants to connect today and the idea of connecting with him feels good, why not?

  25.  #25Elsie on March 10, 2015 at 2:13 pm

    Ok just to say this. I dont feel like having an unzippered heart with this man. I unzippered my heart (and my pants) after months of him begging me basically to come back, and the after two interactions he ghosted on me.

    No reason. No explanation. My friends, and his friends even are FURIOUS with his treatment of me. So much so, that HIS friends are going to unfriend him on facebook and not talk to him anymore. These are GUYS that think he is being sh***** to me. So that says alot.

    They are all waiting for me to give the word. I just feel like I dont know what he is doing or what. When he left my house that night – everything was wonderful. After 8 months apart, those two weeks were great. And then…….poof. Ghosting. Gone.

  26.  #26April Rose on March 10, 2015 at 3:49 pm

    Ooh, Elsie,


    Did you have the “what would it mean to you if we start having sex again?” talk?
    Did you both agree on the sort of relationship you were going to have together after 8 months apart?

    I’m discovering that so much needs to be negotiated. In order for a woman to keep her sanity and know where she stands. And it is best done when we still have some cards on the table and there is something he wants from us, i.e. sex.

    It sounds like he does know you and your values.

    If it were me I would simply trust him that he will respect those values.

    And then, in Rori’s words

    “The fact of the matter is, a man is either there or he is not. If he is not there, you need to move in the other direction.

    Or, you may make a decision to say “You know, it doesn’t feel so good to me what’s going on now. I’m going to try a trial break here, with no contact. Know that I still love you, and when you’re read for a deeper relationship please let me know.”

    We gotta take the energy away from him.”

  27.  #27Emerson on March 10, 2015 at 4:48 pm

    Thank you Posie for your reply! 🙂
    How do you feel about accepting last minute plans from a man you’ve been on one date with? I’m just curious…not saying I am for or against it…

  28.  #28Lovergirl on March 10, 2015 at 5:00 pm

    @Indigo 11-
    I feel excited for you! That sounds lovely and like he is really starting to move forward. 🙂

  29.  #29Lovergirl on March 10, 2015 at 5:02 pm

    Oh Elsie-

    I would feel abandoned and hurt too. Its so hard to figure out why men act the way they do sometimes. I wonder if people have communicated FOR you that you are upset? Perhaps he feels silly or embarrassed now.

  30.  #30Gemini Goddess on March 10, 2015 at 6:38 pm

    Indigo 11
    That is SO wonderful. I feel giddy and wonderful for you reading that.

  31.  #31Gemini Goddess on March 10, 2015 at 6:39 pm

    Oops. Used “wonderful” twice. i must really mean it. 🙂

  32.  #32Emerson on March 10, 2015 at 6:43 pm

    Sirens I am feeling exasperated with the dating prospects I am attracting online.

    There seem to be a lot of highs and lows.
    Lots of one date wonders.
    I meet someone who seems to have a lot of potential to be a match for me….and it ends with date one.

    They may even stay in contact with me but usually its just by texting. And that is boring.

    I choose to not reply to the texts if I don’t want to…but I feel frustrated with all of it.

    I know I need to work on myself to attract a better match for myself. I feel “stuck”on how to do that….but at the same time I feel happy with me and my own company. I really enjoy being alone but I do get lonely. I feel sad when I spend too much time by myself.

  33.  #33Gemini Goddess on March 10, 2015 at 6:58 pm


    If it’s any consolation, I had whole bunch of that while I was CDing. Even the ones who I DID go on second or third dates with, I was completely uninspired, going through the motions, and frankly exhausted by the whole thing. I too like to be alone quite a bit, but just felt lonely.

    I have no idea if this is the case for you, but at one point I just said to h*ll with it. No more working on me. Hope some of this boot camp sank in. It was like the ultimate lean back. I also decided I was really ready to meet the love of my life, like if he walked in the door, I’d be up for the task. I met D the next week. No exaggeration.

    Hang in there. 🙂

  34.  #34Lovergirl on March 10, 2015 at 7:56 pm

    I just got a call from this guy that I am supposed to be having a second date with tomorrow. He pitched the idea that we just hang at his house and eat Chinese food, since I am supposedly short on time. I never told him I was short on time. He asked my curfew and I said I’d probably like to be back by 10:30. That would give us a good few hours to go out to dinner.

    I feel annoyed. I got off the phone because my daughter started fussing and I used it as an excuse to hang up. I’m thinking about what to say to him next.

    He had texted me a few hours and asked if I had his “kisses ready”. I was thinking what the..…I haven’t really even made out with this guy- he’s the one that tried to kiss me in the restaurant last time. So I said it felt weird to promise kisses when we haven’t even really kissed yet. He said I was right he was just being silly.

    I don’t feel like I want to sleep with him at this point, so I’m thinking its not a good idea to go to his house to eat chinese food. I think I’m going to text something about how I dont really feel comfortable hanging out at his place yet. :p

  35.  #35Lovergirl on March 10, 2015 at 8:13 pm

    S called me again tonight. Supposedly he was calling because I left a box of shipping envelopes sitting on the living room floor. I was like, they were there when I came over so I left everything the way I found it.

    He said he took them down out of the closet because he knows I don’t like having to reach up so high to get them down and he is taller. I was like, well thank you and thank you for putting them back up. 😉

    I feel amused that he called to talk about that. Haha… It definitely feels like he is the one leaning forward right now and I am enjoying it.

  36.  #36Beloved on March 10, 2015 at 8:14 pm

    Between the message I received tonight where a guy told him his life story, unsolicited, about how he never knew his father and his wife died giving birth to their child…and Emerson and Gemini Goddess’s posts…I’ve shut down my profiles.
    That is how I feel…to h3ll with it. I trust that “he” will come, I’ll be fine if it doesn’t. and I’ve had great practice…really, really great practice!
    I feel like, I have the benefits of a man at home handling everything so why not just relax, appreciate it, and get on with my life?

  37.  #37Gemini Goddess on March 10, 2015 at 8:28 pm

    Oh, (Beloved)…

    That really takes the cake. What a horrid date. That’s practically worthy of a Facebook post.

  38.  #38Gemini Goddess on March 10, 2015 at 8:31 pm

    Lovergirl 34

    I totally agree. I would not go to his house to have Chinese take-out on a second date. No to his house. No to take-out. And that’s without the “kissing” comments.

  39.  #39Posie on March 10, 2015 at 8:32 pm

    Hi Emerson! It doesn’t bother me at all if I’m up to it and it feels like it could be fun. Don’t get me wrong, I wouldn’t rearrange my day to make it happen, but if I’m into it and free and am interested in the guy, I’d go for it. If last minute plans became a habit, I might address it differently. But I don’t mind a little spontaneity and don’t think it necessarily means anything to give or receive those kinds of invitations.

    not sure, that could just be me. What is it in particular that rubs you funny about it? That’s interesting to me 🙂
    Nice to share perspectives!

  40.  #40Lovergirl on March 10, 2015 at 8:40 pm

    @38 Gemini Goddess-

    I texted that I am not comfortable with a “house date” just yet. He said no problem he had a backup plan. I asked what that was and he mentioned a nice area where there are some good restaurants for dinner. So, I said that sounded nice. 😉 Hopefully he picks a good place. It should definitely be better than eating take out chinese at his house. :p

  41.  #41Beloved on March 10, 2015 at 9:22 pm

    Gemini Goddess – lol, oh, it got a FB post 🙂 I’m in a ‘secret’ group (that’s not public) of friends where we share our dating adventures. I had to put down the phone and hold my head in my hands…wondering, is this real? Do I use this for practice and respond with an FM?
    I walked away, read your and Emerson’s posts, and disabled my accounts. 😀 I also had a recent email from Rori about focusing on anything but anything to do with men, or along those lines and I felt like…ok. I’ve done the work, I’ve gotten the practice, I’ve been through some major triggers, I’ve learned a hundred new skills, I made my decision to no longer be involved in poly relationships…not much else to do here but just live my life, keep CDing the world.
    I do plan to try some of Dr. Pat Allen’s suggestions, for the practice, because it feels interesting to me and really nothing to do with a man specifically and more to do with overcoming shyness and introversion.

  42.  #42Starla on March 10, 2015 at 10:06 pm

    Elsie, didn’t you leave collegecd for your ex in the last year or so? That could be the problem. If you know what I mean?

  43.  #43Indigo on March 10, 2015 at 11:42 pm

    Lovetodance, Lovergirl & Gemini Goddess,

    Thank you so much (((hugs)))

    It feels really nice to feel more comfortable, cosy and secure. Our weekends together are getting longer too. It all feels nice, even though of course I still get triggered occasionally.

  44.  #44Indigo on March 10, 2015 at 11:48 pm

    Emerson 32,

    I’m sorry to hear this, and I’m not sure if it’s because the guys don’t move forward, or because you feel uninspired by the men you’re dating. But there is so much you can do about it all.

    You might want to let go of the idea of working on yourself for a bit, and just kick back and have fun, have a light touch on it all. Just tell yourself for a while that you’re just in it to have fun and you don’t care what happens. This vibe tends to be very attractive to people. Just open your heart to them rather than thinking they’re the one. I also hope you have enough passion in your life – think about things which would be really fun and interesting, things which spice you up and make you feel alive, and enjoy it for its own sake. There is no reason to be alone if you don’t want to be 🙂 even if it’s just short episodes with other people.

  45.  #45Indigo on March 10, 2015 at 11:53 pm

    Lovergirl 34,

    I am always amazed by this phenomenon of men inviting women to their houses for the first or second date, and I wonder if it’s an American thing 🙂

    Over here, unless you knew the guy beforehand, that wouldn’t be appropriate until you were dating more steadily.

    Wouldn’t it feel more romantic for him to take you out to dinner or a movie or out somewhere? You could always use a feeling message to tell him that. I have in the past, and it has worked well.

  46.  #46Kath on March 11, 2015 at 1:47 am

    Its Wednesday and tonight I am going for dinner with him at the house we used to share together. It doesn’t feel strange- perhaps it should-. I am warm inside thinking about it- I am looking forward to it!- I didn’t text him yesterday and he didn’t text me-but would it be wrong to text him today and say I am looking forward to seeing him tonight?- or shall I leave that until I see him?- He is picking me up from my home and then bringing me back tomorrow morning and I am a bit apprenhensive but excited at the same time- I have tried to keep my brain vacant-lol!- because I do have a tendency to overthink things- and I just want to let the conversation flow between us and be very conscious of what he says. I am open-and I want to keep my heart open even though the whole intimacy thing I crave but am scared of at the same time. But I do know what I want and that is one major step forward for me!

  47.  #47Femininewoman on March 11, 2015 at 4:35 am

    Lovergirl do you realize you can date without sex? It seems that is where that guy is steering things and your comment above suggests you might be thinking about it. How about just focusing on dating and enjoying yourself for a while just to lift your self-esteem? I’d keep these dates with this guy out in public for as long as possible.

  48.  #48Femininewoman on March 11, 2015 at 4:48 am

    Elsie I don’t think he was pining for you no matter what he said. He might have said because he recognizes that you are emotional and would respond to that. Maybe he was just feeling horny. Maybe the lesson is to help you see yourself and how you do relationship. Maybe he is showing you he needs more than two dates to become emotionally invested and sex don’t do it for him until he is emotionally invested. I believe if he is he won’t ghost so quickly. Maybe he is saying no matter how much time passes what he needs is a “new” relationship. Maybe starting up where we left off doesn’t work for him because he gets bored easily. Maybe it is not that he doesn’t care maybe his wiring is just that he needs to work more and you have made it too easy for him for just falling back in with him after the long breaks. Maybe he is just plain lazy and he is teaching you how to be with lazy guys.

    What I am saying is look at the patterns and decide to change them. Allow him back in if he comes back but let him experience you as a new woman. If he is pining next time let him feel like he has to crawl over broken glass in addition.

  49.  #49Femininewoman on March 11, 2015 at 4:56 am

    Elsie I also feel really resonant to what Indigo says in 15 and 16. I would take it for what it’s worth and find a way to experiment with that thought.

  50.  #50Elsie on March 11, 2015 at 5:54 am

    OK I”m done. I’m tired of making excuses up for this man. These are the FACTS. He told his friends for 8 months – MONTHS – that he wanted to be with me, thought of me all the time, wanted to marry me, etc. He said the same to me. He said he wanted to get on with starting our LIFE together. This was crystal clear. I questioned it over and over and it was CLEAR. Everything was made CLEAR to me. If it hadnt been CLEAR I would have never slept with him. Ever. EVER.

    I did break with a guy but it had nothing to do with this. I wasnt feeling it for months, and hes a nice guy just not for me – its compeltely irrelevant.

    This is the THIRD time I’ve given this guy a chance. And he is so f’ing emotional. The first two times when something didnt go exactly his way he “ghosted” on me. I have no idea what happened this time, but honestly, who cares.

    Who DOES THIS to someone they profess to love? He said to me that night (and many other times) that he loved me more than any other woman in his life and felt more comfortable with me than any other woman. And wanted to start a life with me, get married very soon, etc.

    lies. all lies. And WHO CARES WHY. Sure, maybe I could sit down for another year or so and analyze why. But why would I call and ask a man to explain himself? This man KNOWS me and he knows that what he has done is wrong, its why he asked if I was mad at him (he is always f’ing worried that someone is mad at him) So he doesnt care how I feel, he cares how he is being perceived by people.

    Its interesting that you ask if anyone has talked to him. No, they havent. Everyone, on my request, has remained normal and hasnt said anything to him.

    BUT. That said, his friend is going to send him a scathing email unfriending him on facebook. he will come UNGLUED at it – and be so upset I’m sure he will call someone – me or someone else – crying. Good. He should cry. He should be upset about the damage he has caused. I love him very mucha nd I wanted a life with him – but not THIS life. I hope he learns his lesson and doesnt do this to another girl. He is a good man, but completely immature. He has been allowed to act immaturely and this time he doesnt get to.

    I’m deciding now if I want our mutual friend to send this to him. He will be gutted if he gets it. But frankly the way he has treated me in the last two weeks has been completely unacceptable and frankly, cruel. Horrible.

    I thought – you know if I have our friend send this to him, there is NO WAY he will come back to me ever. Ever. So, thats the reason I”m waiting – how insane is that – why would I ever WANT this guy back? Likely because everything I said to him two weeks ago I actually MEANT – everything I’ve said over the past two years, I actually MEANT.

  51.  #51Kath on March 11, 2015 at 6:38 am


    Doesn’t it make you mad to the point where you just don’t care anymore??!!- But, from my own experience, it is really difficult when we both have a lot of mutual friends-for what its worth I think they should stay out of it. It is between the two of you- and more importantly, its his issue. He’s had his third strike so time to let go and move on. No need to say anything, do anything- just deep sigh, note to self and get right back on that horse and move on with your life. Who knows perhaps he will contact you in time and explain himself, perhaps he’s confused and doesn’t know what to do- but is that really something for you to concern yourself with?- Sometimes we don’t always get the explanation or the clear signals or the clarity we think we need in order to make a decision. However, the clarity surely is that he is not stepping up and therefore not worth your time, your energy, your frustration. Not worth concerning yourself with anything relating to him at all- focus on you and how it makes you feel- write it down-really get into those feelings and know that you don’t want to feel that way ever again.-Onwards and upwards lovely Siren!- Its all part of life’s rich lesson! xx

  52.  #52Elsie on March 11, 2015 at 6:53 am

    Kath – Thanks. Yes, I just got off the phone with my other friend. She is also furious. She was like, I’ll kick YOUR a**if you ever go back to him, LOL. What kind of a guy does this.

    She doesnt know him (we only actually have two mutual friends – and they are really my friends that he happened to get along with) but she was cracking me up. She’s like, you deserve so much better. What could he possibly ever say to you to make you take him back after him doing this?

    She totally agrees my other friend should send the email – ONLY BECAUSE he is the type of guy that the effect that she is going for will happen. He is slinking away because its easy. This will make him realize that he hurt me, and frankly everyone sees it. He will be gutted.

    Originally I thought they should stay out of it too, but you know she is actually saying everything I want to say to him, but I end up looking cool because I’m not the one saying it. LOL

  53.  #53Starla on March 11, 2015 at 6:56 am

    Elsie, I believe this is a job for leaning back. Involving his friends and having them send something upsetting to him is probably the least feminine way i can think of to respond to a man who is simply not pursuing. He has his reasons not to be pursuing, and while he may not be very mature in your eyes to change his mind or pull away, your job as a siren is to lean back away from men whose energy isn’t coming towards you. Not to douse them in gasoline and throw a match. I don’t see how being the woman who is comfortable with getting a mans friends involved, rather than discouraging it and respecting that unspoken boundary, just to hurt him because she feels upset, is productive among many other things….

  54.  #54Femininewoman on March 11, 2015 at 7:25 am

    Yeah Elsie. It seems like kinda kindergarten from over here plus it will definitely not work to magnetize him back. More like dynamite blowing him in the opposite direction. Your silence and his conscience will do a better job on his insides.

  55.  #55Femininewoman on March 11, 2015 at 7:33 am

    Elsie remember men also think differently than women. Maybe best to talk to guy and see what he says or what he thinks would catch his attention more if he were CollegeCd. Even if you don’t want him back you don’t want to be labeled the psycho ex or start getting into that type of energy pattern that you might likely repeat in the future with someone else anyway.

  56.  #56Femininewoman on March 11, 2015 at 7:40 am

    Elsie I also want to say good for you for deciding that you are done. Whatever happens this alone would raise your degree of difficulty internally. So in case he comes back you have likely made an internal shift and make your decisions from that place and put your heart first.

  57.  #57Elsie on March 11, 2015 at 7:52 am

    Starla – its not his friends. Its mine. They were my friends that he happened to like, but they are on #teamelsie.

    And not feminine? Good. I’m done. At some point, being a siren is knowing that you have been taken advantage of, and not tiptoeing or leaning back. You know I think sometimes that when you are done, and you are REALLY done, throwing a match on the gasoline to end a relaitonship is cathartic.

    @Femininewoman – I’m going to disagree with you on the first part – I dont give a s**** if I magnatize him back. He can go magnatize himself now. I dont WANT him back. I deserve so much better this this. And for THIS man, I know that silence is amazing for him because he can justify anything. He iwll never be able to justify what my friend says to him. Now, I will agree with you that men think differently than woman – and some of them are NUTS.

    And I’m not psycho because I’m not doing any of it. I”m not saying ANYTHING to him. She is saying it all. She is just going to unfriend him on facebook, and so is our other friend, and say to him that while Elsie is fine, they dont think the way he treated me was right and be done with him, so that when he comes around asking – hey are you guys mad at me – yah, the answer is YES.

    And again, I DONT WANT HIM BACK. I dont want to play any game. I’m burning this bridge.

    I think sometimes we all get caught up in this leaning and gentleness, and you know men get away with a LOT because we do that. Sometimes yes, there are great excuses, and so people deserve some leeway.

    But not after this. Not after doing this three times to me in 2 years. Not after I did everything to make SURE that he was CLEAR in his intentions this time.

    Nope, not this time.

    I’m giving her the green light to say whatever she wants to him. Because I never want him back. What girl in her RIGHT MIND would want someone back that does this to her?

    I know I would never tell my daughters to be with someone like this – and if it isnt good enough for them, then it sure isnt good enough for me.

  58.  #58Elsie on March 11, 2015 at 8:02 am

    Do I sound mad? LOL. Good. Thats how I feel. 🙂

  59.  #59Kath on March 11, 2015 at 8:07 am

    Elsie, You sound hugely triggered!- Can you take a deep breath and look at why this has triggered you so much?- Is it because you gave him another chance?- are you feeling like you’ve been suckered?

  60.  #60Azure Blu on March 11, 2015 at 8:07 am

    I’m so sorry this man disappeared after allll those promises and future talk…
    I would be angry and heartbroken…
    much love and compation sending your way!!

  61.  #61Lovergirl on March 11, 2015 at 8:21 am

    I feel embarrassed that my posts that mysteriously went into moderation are now spamming the comments section. Sorry!

  62.  #62Lovergirl on March 11, 2015 at 8:27 am

    @45 Indigo-

    Not sure where you live but I suspect it has something to do with the overall American attitude towards getting everything FAST. I don’t think Chinese takeout at his house is acceptable for a “date” either, when we have only gone out once before. Maybe if we had known each other awhile and were more comfortable. I’m sure his real goal is to try and get me in bed but he’s fighting against himself, being so pushy.

  63.  #63Femininewoman on March 11, 2015 at 8:38 am

    Elsie you don’t sound angry to me. You sound resolute. Like you know what you want. Leaning back is not tiptoeing. As far as I am concerned it is displaying your dignity without spewing on any man. Regardless of who does it, in my mind, it sets in motion a pattern that is likely to be repeated with the next and the next and the next. Stopping that domino effect is me telling myself I have control of me and I take responsibility for what happens in my life.

    He deserves all of what might happen and more. But then what? You get to feel powerful and giggle for a moment. Does it get rid of the hurt? Does it get rid of the anger? Will you make the same choices with another man wrapped in a different way??? mmmmmm

  64.  #64Indigo on March 11, 2015 at 8:43 am


    I feel very sorry for the obvious pain you are in, I’ve been there and I know what that kind of anger is like. But I completely agree with Starla.

    It may not be you directly who sends him the message, but he will certainly know that you are behind it. Would it not be more authentic, more honouring, to write him a from-the-heart e-mail? Unfriending people from Facebook is terribly high school.

    I would like to see you go deeper with this trigger than simply anger at a man who has not contacted you for a while.

    I do send you love and strength.

  65.  #65Indigo on March 11, 2015 at 8:51 am

    Feminine Woman 63,

    I like this, and this was the reason I eventually decided to start leaning back. Not because it wasn’t perfectly logical to lean forward, but because once I had, then what? I wanted to get into a good pattern with men for life. I was doing it to make it easier for myself.

  66.  #66Lovergirl on March 11, 2015 at 8:54 am

    @47 Femininewoman-

    Yes. I have been thinking lately that I need to experience more just dating without moving so quickly into sexual things. I’ve been kind of amazed at how easy it is to say no to sex and just have the guys do things for me, like take me out. So that is sort of a lesson for me.

    Like, I turned down the chinese takeout idea, so now he is making reservations at a very nice restaurant for us tonight. Score! 😉

  67.  #67Indigo on March 11, 2015 at 8:55 am


    I was reading a post from an Irish girl the other day who said that a lot of Irish men also expect you to offer them a bed for the night on the first date (I do not know how true this is) so I wondered.

    I live in South Africa, and I think men here tend to take the whole dating/courting ritual somewhat slower and wouldn’t consider a “house date” appropriate if you had only just met.

  68.  #68Gemini Goddess on March 11, 2015 at 9:29 am


    Lovergirl 40
    Yay you!!!!!! Great job! 🙂

    Kath 46
    Hope your evening went well!

    Femininewoman 63
    “Leaning back is not tiptoeing.”
    Amen, Sister

  69.  #69Starla on March 11, 2015 at 9:56 am

    “You know I think sometimes that when you are done, and you are REALLY done, throwing a match on the gasoline to end a relaitonship is cathartic.” so is beating the shxt out of a disobedient dog or child. Catharsis probably shouldnt be the gauge for morality. Anyway i hope you feel happier soon.

  70.  #70Elsie on March 11, 2015 at 11:07 am

    Starla – Wow. Ok – who said anything about beating someone? Where did that violence come from? I encourage you to find out where that came from because that had nothing to do with what I was saying. I’ll be honest, Starla, your post actually frightened me. Who said anything about morality and beating a child – Good Lord.

    Just like you burn old letters, or have a fabulous cry, its cathartic, and then its over.

    Slinking away and silently leaning back is what I did the last times. It felt horrible IN THIS CASE with Bryan, its because then he thinks its open season and it starts all over again with me and him. I want him to know FOR SURE that what he did was wrong, and he cant talk his way out of it this time.

    I have done it before, with other men, and it felt good. I did it with the Fireman. Perfect. Wonderful.

    But this man deserves to know the s***storm he caused. He created it, and he deserves to know the fallout from it.

    And you are right – I”m not actually mad, although it may sound like it – I am very resolute. 🙂

    I *know* I’m doing the right thing on this. 🙂

  71.  #71Beloved on March 11, 2015 at 11:16 am

    Starla – I always feel so happy to hear your no bullsh!t voice on the blog.
    You are the reason I never pretend to understand why a guy would flake or cancel a date or play the “understanding” role.
    No, I don’t understand why you wouldn’t move heaven and earth to be with me and I’m not going to pretend I do.
    It has served me well 🙂
    Big hugs to you!!

  72.  #72Emerson on March 11, 2015 at 11:53 am

    Gemini, Indigo, Beloved and Posie
    Thank you for your comments to me….

    Posie I feel curious around the anger and resentment I feel when a man wants to make last minute plans with me. I feel annoyed by this especially when it’s just the second meeting. It feels too casual. I sent him a text back stating that I felt bored with texting. He has not replied. It is ok.

    Indigo Beloved and Gemini…I deactivated my profile and just going to be “me” for a while in real time…in real life 3-D….I am tired of being the dating profile that feels so 2-dimentional to me now….
    I will revisit it later if I feel like it….it doesn’t feel good right now so I am letting it go….and opening up my heart to other ways of connecting…

    I feel appreciated of the comments to me as it does make me feel heard and in good company with sirens 🙂 <3

  73.  #73Starla on March 11, 2015 at 5:41 pm

    Beloved, that makes me feel good, thank you!

  74.  #74Liquid Light on March 11, 2015 at 8:45 pm

    What is this, kick em when they’re down day?

    Wow, I’m shocked by the cold heartedness here in response to Elsie’s posts. I really don’t get it. Why are so many of your so hard on her?? Ouch! With that kind of lack of compassion its a wonder that any of us keep bearing our souls here and being vulnerable.

    Can’t we show some sympathy to a fellow woman when she’s going through a hard time and is feeling heart broken because of man? Or is this a case of making someone wrong so that we don’t feel our own pain and acknowledgement that we could be in her very same spot. I really hate it when women turn on each other and that’s exactly what this feels like.

    Elsie, I’m so sorry that you are going through that situation. I also think its terrible that he led you on like that and then does the cowardly thing and disappears. That’s pathetic. I do think that kind of abysmal behavior should be addressed, he should know that that is unacceptable behavior and that should be communicated in a very clear manner IMHO. Otherwise, he’ll just keep doing it. If we as women sweep this kind of behavior under the carpet and don’t say anything, then its just a license for him to treat the next woman in the same way.

  75.  #75Labbit on March 12, 2015 at 6:24 am

    74 Liquid Light — Oooh, I love what you say in your second paragraph! “Or is this a case of making someone wrong so that we don’t feel our own pain and acknowledgement that we could be in her very same spot.” — For me, YES. That is exactly what I felt when I was reading Elsie’s posts, this drive to push my own fears and pain down. Thank you for articulating that so well!

    To your last paragraph, I agree with you though I have a different view on how we do that. In my experience when I’ve tried to tell a man, well, just about anything really, it never works. And especially when I’m feeling emotional or upset. If I were to tell a man that how he’s treating me is wrong that allows him to shift all the guilt, shame and such that he’s feeling inside out onto ME instead of figuring out the problem and solving it for himself. Women tend to internalize, men project outwards. If I try to correct his treatment of me with words all it does is make him think “Look at her, she can’t control her emotions! She’s crazy, look at all this stuff she’s accusing me of…” and so on. He’ll either make himself the victim or he’ll get defensive, neither of which is very conducive to learning. He’ll just chalk it up to hormones or some crap and he never learns, never takes a look at HIMSELF, never grows or transforms.

    So that is why (in my estimation, I don’t mean to speak for anyone else here) the other Sirens are suggesting to just walk away. By walking away not only does a woman keep her integrity intact, it also keeps the responsibility squarely on the man for him to figure out how his actions led to this outcome, and then it’s up to him to decide whether he wants to correct his behaviors or not.

    Words do not affect men. Silence, no contact affects them greatly.

  76.  #76Femininewoman on March 12, 2015 at 6:52 am

    Labbit you are so articulate and so wise. It even speaks to Rori’s post about feeling under attack. I guarantee taking the walk away route will raise his level of respect even if he never shares that. I have seen it happen so many times.

  77.  #77Indigo on March 12, 2015 at 11:50 pm

    Labbit 75,

    I love this post of yours and for my part, yes, this is why I think walking away is the better option. Every time I’ve blamed and accused, told him he was wrong or insulted him in an effort to get him to change or see the error of his ways, it was like a shield which just bounced all that negative energy right back to me. All it did on his end was make him withdraw from me and cast me in a very negative light in his eyes.

    Men decide to change their behaviour because it is no longer getting them the results they want. They are goal driven. Anyway, I’m not going to judge Elsie’s plan of action one way or the other, just that if it were me, I would want to keep my own integrity intact. Some men may hurt us, yes, but they are also human, and I wouldn’t want to judge them either.

  78.  #78Mistea1 on March 13, 2015 at 5:24 am

    Indigo 77,

    Yes, I agree with walking away. I don’t need to upset myself further.

  79.  #79Femininewoman on March 17, 2015 at 4:56 am

    Hi Elsie. I hope you are alright.