Who Doesn’t Love A Wedding? – Wills And Kate

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Not writing about this would make me seem out of touch – and yet I am.  I just now saw some video clips and a moment-by-moment written description of the day at several sites…and…well…I love it.

I would be lying if I didn’t say I teared up.

She’s so calm and lovely, he’s so…well, royal.

I love the pageantry.

I don’t like that it’s cost Britain so much money (I think they made a terrible mistake making today a “bank holiday” – will cost them billions).

And real life is still kind of scary with security, arrests, bad apples.

And yet – they rode away in a sports car with Wills driving, and they seem as normal as people can be in that situation.

I mean – what would it feel like if the whole world were into YOUR love life?

It must be an odd way to live…and I imagine that’s why it took Kate 9 years (of course, we don’t know who made the decision when, but they’ve been living together quite a long time) to decide if she wanted this kind of life.  And she seems totally okay with it.

So…I’m just going to use this situation to ask – does your love life have to look like anyone else’s?

Can you be happy with several lovers, living on a boat, traveling non-stop, married to a pleasant but not exciting man, married to a couch potato man who loves you and is present for you when you’re around, and allows you to do whatever you like when you’re not?

Are there ways to have love beyond the “traditional”?

The reason why I talk about marriage so much, and “marriage on the table” is because so many of us WANT marriage.  It feels more solid.

And, the truth is – men FEEL more solid married.

But – is marriage the important thing here?

Because I so believe in Marriage Equality – these days it almost feels weird to place so much importance on marriage when other couples in love can’t legally marry.

And – on the other hand – doesn’t that say that most of us want to “marry”?  That it means something to us beyond the relationship itself?

Or is “partnership” enough.  Is “partnership the whole ball of wax and “marriage” just a tradition and a ceremony that only means what you make it mean?

I’d love to open up this discussion, because I know many couples who aren’t married but live together as if they were and seem as happy (or happier) than many married couples.

For me – marriage is simply a “standard” of commitment that most people “ascribe” to.  Like all other traditions, it gets embedded in our collective unconscious.

And yet, in many parts of the world, and even in the United States and Britain and Europe – marriage is a trap.  A jail for women.

In places where women are barely acknowledged as human beings – marriage is the only safety net, and also it’s a prison with husband as jailer and the whole society as guards.

Sometimes the marriage bond feels religious, and sometimes it feels “civil” and “legal.”

Sometimes it’s about money.  Who has it, who doesn’t, and how it must be “shared.”

I’d like to put down my “little girl fantasies” and see the world clear and real, and see love real and clear, and see traditions and ritual and celebrations clear and real.  I’d like to choose beyond what I’ve been trained and habituated to think and feel.

And yet – I feel the “storybook” coming on.

I long for life as I experience it in the Disneyland “Storybook Boat Ride” – but just outside the ride are real people, and garbage cans – and…if I think of it, within the “storybook” experience there are goblins and witches and evil tyrants and pain, too.

How did I manage to find that kind of unpleasantness “lovely”?

So – I vote for real life.

Kate and Wills are actually real people, with real feelings and real desires and goals and talents and wishes like the rest of us, in unusual circumstances for most of us, living their lives as real as they can.

It reminds me that at the end of the hoopla (even if there’s hoopla every day) – there’s still brushing your teeth at the bathroom sink, there’s still looking at each other across the table, there’s still lying together in the same bed. There’s still being human.

So, I look to make MY every day as lovely as I can – even the storybook aspects I’d like to include by doing fanciful things and honoring my wishes and desires – no matter WHERE they come from.

Love first, then everything else will fall into place.

If you think love first, and let results happen as you follow the path of what makes you feel good and happy – you’ll find your love life.

Parts real life, parts storybook, parts fantasy, parts tradition that isn’t even yours, parts wishfulness, parts imagination, parts grit.

Let’s just live our lives and not try to judge what’s happening. Let’s watch.

We are the stars of our own lives…make it up good.

Love, Rori


  1.  #1Simply Shannon on April 29, 2011 at 2:30 pm

    Yep, it’s my story. And I am going to dream it up good. I LOVE this post.

  2.  #2RiverGirl on April 29, 2011 at 2:35 pm

    I wish them all the luck in the world. They will be living in such extraordinary circumstances and I hope that they can find the space to be away from the eyes of the world to have an ordinary marriage. Away from the pomp and ceremony an ordinary marriage, between two people who love each other, can be the most majestic of states to live in.

  3.  #3Rachael on April 29, 2011 at 2:59 pm

    For me marriage is no longer a necessary route to commitment. I lived with my first love, and now ex-husband for 5 years before we got married. At the time my wedding was a way to show him, and our loved ones I was devoted, and commited to building and maintaining a life of love together. It was a new beginning, and I believed he felt the same. Now I know he only got married to me because it was something I wanted, and he wanted me to remain in his life. It was a gift to me, and it cost him, and me a great deal in the end. It cost too much money, and it also took the security he and I had in each other. He resented me taking his freedom very quickly, and was unfaithful within the first 2 months we were married. Before we got married I belonged to him, and he was proud. After he belonged to me and he was bitter. We tried for 2 years to make it work to no avail, and have been separated a year now with divorce in the works. We are both in new relationships, and happy now. I believe we would have stayed together years and years longer at the very least had we never married. I will only marry again if it is important to the man I love, and because I know I am capable of maintaining a long, loving, and commited marriage. Otherwise…It is not important to me anymore.

  4.  #4Turquoise3 on April 29, 2011 at 3:15 pm

    To be honest, I’m not sure how I feel about marriage anymore. I’ve been divorced a few years, and it was such a difficult thing to go through, not sure I want to risk it again. I guess if someone I meet really made me feel loved and secure, I’d still like the dream and happy ever after… just might take me a long time to get there.

  5.  #5RiverGirl on April 29, 2011 at 3:18 pm

    @ 362 on the previous thread,
    Lucy says:

    “I can “hear” Daria advising, “Tell him the truth – tell him you feel bored with his words.” But I also “hear” Tinque saying, “Receive and appreciate what he is giving you; no expectations.” I feel a lil weird posting this bc I could be wrong Daria and Tinque – but would be happy to hear anyone’s thoughts on it (incl D and T).”

    Lucy, I am way out of touch on the blog and this has probably been much discussed by now but I would like to work through for myself as well. Hope I’m not taking anything out of context but I wanted to say that I often feel torn between those two approaches.

    Looking at it from the outside it seems that to tell someone “you are bored” is like telling them that you don’t like what they are offering you, and by bringing it up at all, implying that you would like them to change.
    I am trying to teach myself to allow him to be, to let go of my expectations while still staying firm with my requirements. Not my requirements of what he should be/do, but my requirements of how I should feel in a relationship.

  6.  #6Lilybelle on April 29, 2011 at 3:33 pm

    I don’t need or want a marriage necessarily. It is not my ultimate goal. Long term, committed, loving relationship is my goal. If marriage is brought to the table, I’ll reconsider but is not necessary for me to feel secure.

  7.  #7Lisi on April 29, 2011 at 3:41 pm

    There was a wedding?

    Who got married? Are they people I know?

    I posted on FB today that, one of the things I love about not having TV, is that the only way I knew there was a wedding today was because several of them mentioned it in their statuses.

    I’ll catch it on HULU or something at a convenient time.

    When my daughter wants to see it.


    This week end and next are our big local festival week ends. Think I’ll go see some music in the park and maybe run into my musician.

    Oy — he turns me on.

    Can’t think that way. He hasn’t asked me out.


  8.  #8RiverGirl on April 29, 2011 at 3:44 pm

    I love that marriage is such a public statement of intention “to love and to cherish” but for many people it can be accompanied by so much expectation that it is bound to disappoint. I want that feeling of being loved and cherished, forever, together, through whatever and I don’t care what form it takes.

  9.  #9Lisi on April 29, 2011 at 3:59 pm

    I love Carolyn Myss. She wrote “Anatomy of the Spirit” which is well worth the read.

    One of the things she said that stuck with me is this:

    If you choose to marry, you will wake up in the morning, and the archetype of marriage will be there with you.

    The archetype of marriage is that of a man owning a woman.

    Is that what you want?


    I’m not sure I agree entirely with CM, but she certainly gives me a reason to pause and think it through before jumping into nuptials.

    Of course, I’m 40, and I’ve never married, so it could well be argued that I’m not the type to jump into nuptials, anyway.

    I like the IDEA of marriage. I like its place as a respected relationship between a man and a woman.

    I think it is women who are judged if they live together and don’t marry, and women who feel the pressure of that. “Why doesn’t he marry her?” “She’s not REALLY his wife/partner unless he does.”

    So — I don’t know that I could live with a man long-term without marriage, either.

    I guess it would depend on the relationship, how I felt like him, and whether I felt secure that he was/we were fully committed.

    Politically, as a statement of union with my gay friends, I’d like to stay unmarried until it’s legal for them.

    Guess we’ll see….


  10.  #10tinque on April 29, 2011 at 4:06 pm

    Am I the only one who couldn’t care less about this?

    I love a fantasy princess story as much as the next woman, but I feel a little appalled by the public display of such a very private thing.

    Now I fear being attacked for saying this.


  11.  #11tinque on April 29, 2011 at 4:11 pm

    I don’t know Lisi. I have never had anyone look at me askance for being in a nine year relationship without marrying.

    I couldn’t feel more intimately connected and secure in our love. If we ever were to marry, I imagine it would feel anti-climatic.


  12.  #12The Lurker on April 29, 2011 at 4:16 pm

    #10 “Now I fear being attacked for saying this.” Not by me, Tinque. I didn’t watch it, either. I’m glad for Kate and William, they’re a nice couple, but I don’t understand why folks spend hours following all the details. I clocked through some pics at a news site later and that was good enough for me. Gorgeous dress, though!

  13.  #13Kelby on April 29, 2011 at 4:43 pm

    @Tinque, re: #10

    Nope, you’re not alone. I just keep remembering my Dad saying, “The wedding doesn’t make the marriage.” Although, that could’ve just been a strategic remark on his part …. 😉

    All that pomp & circumstance didn’t bode well for either Diana & Charles or Sarah & Andrew. And, in my own experience, the people I’ve known who had the big “to-do” weddings, were all divorced in fairly short order, sometimes quite acrimoniously. (Who knows how many were divorced as a result of wedding debt?) Maybe they’d have been better off investing their festival money in counseling.

    How much good could all that Royal Wedding money have done if it had been donated to, for example, one of Diana’s favorite charities? Unfortunately, it does seem that, “all the world loves a show,” and that keeps fueling the outrageous celebrity salaries, ceremonies, etc.

  14.  #14Lucy on April 29, 2011 at 5:04 pm

    5. Thanks Rivergirl – I feel good reading your input. It also ties in with what Rori wrote here… “Love first, then everything else falls into place.” I can receive his love in whatever form he gives it – and in receiving his offering I am loving him too – and I can love myself even if I feel a little bored with his offering. Thanks.

  15.  #15Lucy on April 29, 2011 at 5:07 pm

    Wow Rivergirl – I actually feel more fondness and love and attraction to him now after processing what you said! Curious!

  16.  #16RiverGirl on April 29, 2011 at 5:08 pm

    I watched the “show” last night in the same way that I watch football grand finals. Not with any real involvement in what was taking place but more a case of seeing what had everyone so hyped up and so that I would know what everyone was talking about later. Just keeping up with current affairs I guess ; )

    I am inclined to agree with you Kelby on “How much good could all that Royal Wedding money have done if it had been donated to, for example, one of Diana’s favorite charities? Unfortunately, it does seem that, “all the world loves a show,” and that keeps fueling the outrageous celebrity salaries, ceremonies, etc.”

    I can see some positives in the whole spectacle though, like the enormous surge of well-being felt by so many millions of people who could believe for a moment that the fairy tale IS possible. That HAS to be worth something.

  17.  #17Lucy on April 29, 2011 at 5:16 pm

    I have no interest in the royal wedding either. However, it does bother me to hear people judging them for various aspects of it – the money, the publicity, etc.

  18.  #18T-Girl on April 29, 2011 at 5:18 pm

    Tinque – I agree with you. I wasn’t into the wedding either. I’m glad its over so the news can talk about something else.

  19.  #19LD on April 29, 2011 at 5:18 pm


    RE#361 from the other thread

    wow I actually think ministerCD might be a good match for you! I wonder how I could “send him your way” in a subtle way…

  20.  #20LD on April 29, 2011 at 5:21 pm


    not into the royal wedding either…

  21.  #21Lucy on April 29, 2011 at 5:29 pm

    I vote for Shannon and MinisterCD dating! You two girls live in the same state, is that right?

  22.  #22Lisi on April 29, 2011 at 5:33 pm

    Tinque —

    I think it’s pretty safe to say you’re not alone in not caring about the royal wedding.

    My niece got married last week end, and that’s got me thinking about marriage more than a marriage of two strangers whose pics I’ve seen.

    I’m glad you don’t feel any criticism/judgement about your long-term un-married relationship.

    Things are definitely changing. I was 30 when I boldly got pregnant with my daughter and had her on my own. I was a bit concerned what my little old aunties would say.

    Most of them said, “Isn’t that great? You couldn’t do that when I was young!”

    But, the really conservative side of the family had all passed away before this, so that’s probably why I have the voice in my head that worries about such things.

    I have coffee tomorrow with A. and he’s lovely, and we’ll no doubt have a good conversation. I’ll enjoy him.

    Should I feel guilty that I really don’t think he’s relationship potential?

    I like him. I’d like to see him. I like that he’s attracted to MEEE.

    But — no — I don’t see it going anywhere.

    And, if I don’t see the ones I don’t think will go anywhere, then I won’t see any of them, and that’s counter to CD-ing philosophy.

    I’m supposed to explore with the ones who ARE available instead of chasing after M. who I could be crazy about, but who’s not yet stepped up…..



  23.  #23DE on April 29, 2011 at 5:39 pm

    Alright, I admit William and Kate’s Royal wedding touched me…I’ve heard both sides the skeptics and hopeful…and here is my view: I get a sense of complete awareness for both them; no mimics; both seem to be grounded and with a strong sense of identity…awareness, calm, a warm energy…I feel hope for the world because of it…we expand to the world our reality…and their reality feels good to me…

    As to the “fairy tale” concept…well, I believe in my own fairy tale…as it feels good to me…not what others expect and/or wish for me….which is often the projection of their own expectation(s) for themselves upon me…often misleading…as “good” intentions…

  24.  #24Lily T. on April 29, 2011 at 5:46 pm

    I enjoyed watching the wedding. Found it fun – like a movie with a happy ending. I don’t care if I ever marry, so I didn’t feel any kind of personal(?) connection to it.

    As far as the expense? I thought I read that the queen and the Middleton’s paid for it. Don’t know how making the day a “bank holiday” figures into it, but from the tv screen it didn’t look like it was bothering the English people much, and it’s their monarchy not mine.

    Man the hats! The hats! Hilarious. 🙂

  25.  #25Turtle Girl on April 29, 2011 at 5:46 pm


    Sigh. I could give two hoots about the royal anything….I’m with ya on this one.

  26.  #26Lucy on April 29, 2011 at 5:52 pm

    I wonder… if all types of relationships were completely equally accepted and respected and celebrated within society and its subcultures (e.g. religions) what would I choose? Would I choose something polyamorous?

  27.  #27Lucy on April 29, 2011 at 5:57 pm

    Is Erika correct in her belief that the consciousness of the whole world is moving toward the “ideal” of open marriage?

  28.  #28Lily T. on April 29, 2011 at 6:04 pm

    I’ve wondered what our culture would look like if legal marriage was abolished. Religious marriage would still exist, there would just be no such thing as ‘licenses’ or government status as a ‘couple’ for tax purposes, etc.

    Since 40% of children are now born to unmarried parents in the US (higher percentages in Europe), it wouldn’t surprise me if legal marriage becomes obsolete in the future. If societal pressure to marry ceased to exist, would it change how we love and choose to express it?

  29.  #29Lily T. on April 29, 2011 at 6:06 pm

    Who is Erika?

  30.  #30Lucy on April 29, 2011 at 6:14 pm

    Oh! I Love what Jonathon wrote to Rori on her ebook fb page! 🙂

  31.  #31Lucy on April 29, 2011 at 6:16 pm

    Lily – Erika Awakening. She is a coach who used to post here at times.

  32.  #32Lucy on April 29, 2011 at 6:20 pm

    Lily 28. What would “religious marriage” be in that scenario?

  33.  #33Lily T. on April 29, 2011 at 6:22 pm

    I see the government getting out of the business of ‘legislating’ relationships. I don’t see churches doing the same.

  34.  #34Lucy on April 29, 2011 at 6:28 pm

    I am positive that if there was no societal pressure to marry, J would not have married me nor anyone – which would’ve been a good choice. He basically married me bc he was over 30 and didn’t want ppl to start thinking he was gay. Sheesh. Last night I took TN man’s advice – He had said, “My ex was like J. She is an asexual. That’s J’s problem. Read about it – you will see what I mean.” I googled it and was blown away! It explained everything about our marriage! And I also feel a deeper acceptance of

  35.  #35Lily T. on April 29, 2011 at 6:29 pm


    In other words, people who chose to, would still be married in their church and have that “marriage” recognized within their church community. But it wouldn’t have any legal standing. Like “commitment ceremonies” some people gay and straight, have now.

  36.  #36Lucy on April 29, 2011 at 6:30 pm

    of its demise…and of myself – bc I see once and for all that it never could have worked no matter what I had done differently. That’s freeing.

  37.  #37Lily T. on April 29, 2011 at 6:32 pm

    Didn’t you also feel some societal pressure to marry Lucy? I thought I read a post of yours where you wanted to “do it right this time” after having given a child up for adoption. What do you think?

  38.  #38Lucy on April 29, 2011 at 6:34 pm

    Of course, I chose him, and it’s very clear to me why. And it’s fascinating that TN man first chose to marry a wife like that too. …And now he has a committed open relationship. I feel curious about all this.

  39.  #39Lily T. on April 29, 2011 at 6:41 pm

    Hmm. I believe human beings to be the most territorial animals on the planet. In every way. Specifically though when it comes to mate selection. I don’t see the world at large moving to the open relationship concept. But if you look back at the last 50 years…there seems a very definet trend toward serial monogamy.

  40.  #40Lucy on April 29, 2011 at 6:48 pm

    Lily 37. I would say I was motivated by two types of “pressure”: 1. Religious pressure to not engage in unmarried sex, 2. The genuine heart-desire for a traditional marriage and family like the one I grew up in.

  41.  #41Lily T. on April 29, 2011 at 6:53 pm

    #40 Lucy,

    “I would say I was motivated by two types of “pressure”: 1. Religious pressure to not engage in unmarried sex, 2. The genuine heart-desire for a traditional marriage and family like the one I grew up in.”

    That’s the case with many people. Which is why I posed the question, what would our culture look like if legal marriage didn’t exist?

    I would presume those who held religious beliefs regarding pre-marital sex, and wanting to emulate traditional marriage would choose to marry within their church communities.

  42.  #42Lucy on April 29, 2011 at 6:57 pm

    There was a lot of pressure on me to give up my baby – from family, friends, counselors. “A child needs two parents” etc. Ultimately I wanted to keep her but had no job, no money, no street smarts about how to make it work, no emotional support (to keep her), and no place to live with her. Now there are two nearby transition homes for women and babies in that position – one is right here in my tiny town! But they didn’t exist back then. If they had, we would’ve stayed together.

  43.  #43Femininepower on April 29, 2011 at 6:59 pm

    Tinque though I want marriage I am with you on this one. The publicity made it boring for me. I watched absolutely nothing. It seemed there was no novelty or specialness about it for me. I wish them the best but I also want them to have a private life with just the two of them loving each other. The publicity was a real turn off for me.

  44.  #44Lucy on April 29, 2011 at 7:04 pm

    41. I don’t know Lily. Historically and currently, religion and government are pretty intertwined. Many laws etc originated with religious beliefs and traditions. If society did away with legal marriage, I don’t know as religious marriage would remain.

  45.  #45Lily T. on April 29, 2011 at 7:05 pm

    #42 Lucy,

    And you see how things have changed ALOT in the last 25 years.

    I also had a baby when I was 22. I had been engaged, called it off, would have broken up with the guy (I believe) if I hadn’t found myself pregnant. As it was, we broke up for awhile, got back together, I refused to marry him and we ended up breaking up for good shortly before our son turned two. The diff between you and me perhaps was that I got all the support I needed from my family to keep the baby and as he grew up as a single mother.

    These days, 40% of babies are born to unmarried parents. (Including my grandchildren). Little did I know I was part of a trend.

  46.  #46Lily T. on April 29, 2011 at 7:09 pm

    #44 I think we could possibly see an influx of previously non-religious people finding a church home. But in the main, if legal marriage was abolished I think it would take the “pressure” off millions of women to find a man for that lifestyle.

  47.  #47Lucy on April 29, 2011 at 7:09 pm

    There are some clear benefits of legal marriage, particularly when children are involved. For example, a woman being on her husband’s health insurance if she prefers to care for her children full-time herself rather than daycare, nanny, etc.

  48.  #48Turquoise3 on April 29, 2011 at 7:11 pm

    I don’t think legal marriage is going anywhere anytime soon. Most of us who think we may not want to remarry, were married. I am glad I had the experience, just wish I’d had the tools and knowledge to do a better job in my marriage. I know my girls are both planning to get married someday, and they are growing up in a divorced home. My parents divorced when I was 12, I was married at 23. I think most people think they’ll do it better, right. Maybe 500 years from now things will be vastly different, but I don’t think anytime soon. I’m glad I was married, and had children with someone who wanted to marry me.

  49.  #49Lily T. on April 29, 2011 at 7:14 pm

    That’s the point though, are these benefits “fair” to the entire population? They aren’t fair to gay couples. They aren’t fair to straight committed couples who choose not to marry for whatever reasons. They certainly aren’t fair to single people who have to pay for somebody else’s spouse to have health insurance while they stay home raising kids.

  50.  #50Turquoise3 on April 29, 2011 at 7:15 pm

    I don’t think it’s the marriage certificate that ruins relationships, it’s the way we treat each other. If everyone treated their spouse with love and respect, would be a lot more happily married people.

    I once read that the key to a happy marriage is to fall in love over and over again, with the same person.

  51.  #51Lucy on April 29, 2011 at 7:18 pm

    Lily 45. Yes, the support makes all the difference in the world. 46. So you think many women only want marriage bc of societal pressure? Are you saying that without it, most would just cohabit… or not even do that? live alone and have bf’s? live in groups?

  52.  #52Turquoise3 on April 29, 2011 at 7:19 pm

    Lily, how is it not fair to be on your spouses health insurance? If you pay to have insurance for your family… you pay more than a single person would. If I hadn’t been on my husbands policy, it would have cost over $10,000 to have each of our girls because I wasn’t still working. I may have been carrying them, but they were his children too.

  53.  #53Lucy on April 29, 2011 at 7:23 pm

    48 Turquoise. I agree. In theory, marriage seems like a good idea for adults and children, and possibly that is why it exists in the first place.

  54.  #54Lily T. on April 29, 2011 at 7:26 pm

    I want to state for the record I’m not against legal marriage. I may marry myself one day, who knows? 🙂 I just don’t have it as a goal.

    And I don’t really see it being abolished in my lifetime either. But it wouldn’t surprise me if the day comes, (and much sooner than 500 years Turq :)) because:

    HALF of all marriages currently end in divorce. If it doesn’t last a lifetime for half the population, why do we still have it?

    If the original purpose was as an institution in which to raise children…almost half the people having children are opting out of it. How’s come?

    The is a large faction of people in favor of same gender couples being allowed to marry, and an even larger faction opposed to that idea. This is creating a chasm in the public perception of marriage- of “fairness”.

    All this leading to: Is it appropriate anymore for the government to be in the business of legalizing relationships?

    Just food for thought, not an attack on marriage itself. ‘kay?

  55.  #55Turquoise3 on April 29, 2011 at 7:28 pm

    I disagree about the society thing to an extent. When I was young, I wanted to be married because I wanted that committment, I wanted children raised in a 2 parent home. Not because it was what society deems right, but because I wanted that for myself and I love the idea of having a true love, a lifetime spent with someone.

    But, when I first separated, I was deeply embarrassed to be getting a divorce, to have the stigma of a single mom… it took awhile, but I don’t feel that way anymore. Now, I’m just glad to have a happy life, healthy, well adjusted children, and to be learning more about myself and what I need to be happy.

    Personally, I don’t ever see me just living with someone. If a man wasn’t willing to give me that kind of committment, I wouldn’t get that serious with him. I certainly realize that committment can be broken, whether you are married or not, but if someone just wanted to live with me, but not serious enough to marry me, I wouldn’t settle down with one man. I know that works for others, who don’t want marriage, but I wouldn’t be happy that way.

    If I don’t meet someone who I could see loving forever, I’d stay single, date and be happy with what I did have in my life.

  56.  #56Lucy on April 29, 2011 at 7:31 pm

    49. I see it as one valid way for society to care for its children, and thus “fair” bc it is about the children. I feel uncomfortable going much further with this topic bc I know Rori doesn’t want any type of “debate” here. What do you think?

  57.  #57Turquoise3 on April 29, 2011 at 7:32 pm

    Well, the thing is though, most people who divorce, remarry, they don’t stay single… so I don’t know that the divorce rate will put an end to marriage. People live a lot longer now than they did 100 years ago, so maybe the sociatal norm will change from just being married once, to several times. I read once (lol… I say that a lot, but it’s true) that most women will have three big loves in her life…

    1. The passionate first love that breaks your heart and teaches you about love and loss.

    2. The second love will give her children.

    3. A third love to grow old with.

    I’ve had the first two. We shall see if number 3 shows up 🙂

  58.  #58Turquoise3 on April 29, 2011 at 7:34 pm

    Yes Lucy, I agree… no need to debate, just sharing our ideas and perceptions.

  59.  #59Lily T. on April 29, 2011 at 7:38 pm

    #55 Turquoise,

    I understand your reasoning perfectly. My original question is about what people would think or do if there wasn’t such a thing as legal marriage. Given your feelings about being married, how do you see making decisions about love if marriage wasn’t an option?

  60.  #60Lucy on April 29, 2011 at 7:42 pm

    Lily 54. But why not (as a society) work toward Healing people and relationships – including marriages – like Rori is doing, rather than just abolishing marriage as an institution “because it’s not working”?

  61.  #61Lily T. on April 29, 2011 at 7:45 pm

    I wasn’t looking for a debate. Just observations. Sorry if it came across otherwise.

  62.  #62Lucy on April 29, 2011 at 7:51 pm

    59. Maybe the question is, what would humans do as a species if there were no external constraints? Would we tend to pair-bond for life or not?

  63.  #63Lily T. on April 29, 2011 at 7:52 pm

    #60 Lucy,
    “Love first, then everything else will fall into place.

    If you think love first, and let results happen as you follow the path of what makes you feel good and happy – you’ll find your love life.”

    -Rori Raye

  64.  #64Lucy on April 29, 2011 at 7:53 pm

    Lily 61. It may have just been my own fear rather than anything you said. <3

  65.  #65LonePlum on April 29, 2011 at 7:57 pm

    Was not aware of any wedding going on today.
    After reading this article, I picked the remote control up, dusted it off, pushed the “on” button and tuned on sky news.
    That’s correct, there was a wedding on air, in a loop, over and over.

    I feel like vomiting

    This man on the picture did nothing to deserve the attention given to him, he was only born in a country that prefers the privilege given by birth which has nothing to do with his worthiness.
    I wonder who pays for the police and army work dedicated to the wedding? Who did the job in the rest of the city in the mean time? Who pays for the fuel necessary to fly the planes and others things used to honor this man? The people of the UK, through their taxes? Or this man’s family with the fortune they made and kept for themselves abusing their own people through the centuries?
    I wonder if the party itself is paid by the family, or by the people taxes?

    OK, I just checked the info: the family paid for the breakfast and diner, the flowers and dress. Makes me laugh as the queen gets a huge salary from the government just for having been born, lol, and nobody is able to say what belongs to her and what belongs to the country. In the mean time they give her money. So it’s like if the government had paid for the dinner and dress too.
    The government openly paid 35 millions for the security organising. The police had to find within its own budget money to pay the over time and the extra material needed, and the council pays the cleaning up afterwards, even within the queen’s property.

    Here is an extract from CBS news
    ****“”The royals, known as “the firm” because they are a business, receive a government grant of about $13 million a year to cover expenses. But the public cost of the wedding far exceeds that.
    Extra policing and overtime ALONE is estimated at more than $35 million.

    Here’s a further cost – when all the people are celebrating, they’re not working. And because the wedding holiday falls between two long holiday weekends in England, you can take 11 days off by burning only three days of vacation time.
    Economists have actually done the math. “Invariably that leads to a loss of output,” said Philip Shaw, chief economist at Investec. “So, in terms of the impact on GDP in the economy we’re suggesting that it could knock something like a quarter percent off growth.”
    That translates into a potential loss to the economy of about $50 billion.
    It better be a heck of a party.“”****
    I have not found the cost for flying over the wedding with the army material. Well I have not really searched, coz I get a good idea of what is the cost of the fuel burnt during a plane flight.

    The British people complain their health system lacks money…
    To save money, the British kids are sent to fight wars without the right equipment (?! scratching me head, wondering how kids death can save money? Why not try to NOT send them at all?)
    Most of the guys applauding there, at the wedding, probably signed a credit loan to pay their own wedding or house but they spent the day standing up to applaud to such a rich wedding paid by their own money taken from their taxes.
    Some people like to be f*cked in the *ss, they even applaud to it.
    Talk about low self esteem.

    One thing is to get f*cked up the *ss, you can’t always act on the politics of your country, but another is to applaud and ask for more.
    Quite interesting…


  66.  #66Lily T. on April 29, 2011 at 7:58 pm

    #62 Lucy,
    ” Maybe the question is, what would humans do as a species if there were no external constraints? Would we tend to pair-bond for life or not?”

    I don’t see love and pair-bonding changing drastically. We choose one person over others even when presented with many choices. Some people would bond for life–after all 50% of marriages currently DO NOT end in divorce. 😉 For some there is polyamory. And for the rest of us their is simply HOPE. Of finding the person we never want to leave.

  67.  #67Lucy on April 29, 2011 at 7:58 pm

    63. Yes, which is exactly what TN and gf did to get to where they are. Maybe that’s why I feel envious.

  68.  #68Lucy on April 29, 2011 at 8:00 pm

    63. Also, that still involves the healing of people and relationships so that they Can live in love, whether it is in marriage or not.

  69.  #69RiverGirl on April 29, 2011 at 8:02 pm

    Re # 65

    I am not British or in favour of a monarchy but reading that post on this blog felt awful to me.

  70.  #70Lucy on April 29, 2011 at 8:11 pm

    63. Actually, that’s what I had always done too!!! UNTIL it resulted in me grieving the adopting-out of my child, at which point I realized I had better stop following love and instead conform to religious guidelines.

  71.  #71Lily T. on April 29, 2011 at 8:13 pm

    And what about now Lucy?

  72.  #72Lucy on April 29, 2011 at 8:13 pm

    70. Which as we all know didn’t work out too well either! Lol.

  73.  #73Lucy on April 29, 2011 at 8:16 pm

    What Would work is: love first, follow your good feelings and happiness, AND listen to your bloody intuition!

  74.  #74Lucy on April 29, 2011 at 8:18 pm

    (See what I did there- threw in “bloody” in honor of the Brits. Hehe.)

  75.  #75Turquoise3 on April 29, 2011 at 8:22 pm

    If a legal marriage wasn’t an option, but I could have a religious one, or a committment ceremony, I’d still like to have the option to declare my love and committment to another person publicly, and I do like tradition, so I’d want a ceremony to go with it. If that wasn’t possible, maybe I’d do something in private, at home.

    But it’s hard to imagine people not pairing up. I agree, even people who don’t get married, sometimes pair up and stay together for a lifetime. I really think it’s more about finding the right person for you, and planning your life together.

    My marriage fell apart because we didn’t know how to deal with our problems. We have similar personalities in some ways, and were just too young and immature, did damage to our relationship, and couldn’t fix it. I wish they taught us about relationships in school, how to treat each other. With the divorce rate as high as it is, many of us didn’t have that example growing up. I’ll encourage my girls to wait until they are a little older to get married. Late 20’s seem about perfect.

  76.  #76RiverGirl on April 29, 2011 at 8:26 pm

    @ 73

    Yes, Lucy! 🙂


  77.  #77Lily T. on April 29, 2011 at 8:33 pm

    #57 Turquoise,

    If I find someone it will be for your #3 someone to grow old with (hopefully).

    I did #’s 1&2 in reverse order. Pfffft!

  78.  #78Lucy on April 29, 2011 at 8:36 pm

    Thanks Rivergirl. I think that Is pretty much what I am doing now. (Couldn’t view the link on phone tho – what is it?)

  79.  #79RiverGirl on April 29, 2011 at 8:39 pm

    @78 Mr Higgins from My Fair Lady singing “By George she’s got it! I think she’s got it!”
    I think I’m finally starting to “get it” too…for this week anyway.

  80.  #80Lucy on April 29, 2011 at 8:42 pm

    I would have a really hard time tho if love, happiness, good feelings, and intuition ended up leading me into cohabiting or polyamory or any other practice frowned on by my religion – bc my kids would be confused and my parents would be grief-stricken.

  81.  #81Lucy on April 29, 2011 at 8:44 pm

    When I lived with the man I had my first baby with, in FL, I lied to my parents (in another state) that we slept in separate beds.

  82.  #82Simply Shannon on April 29, 2011 at 8:44 pm

    Camille, I love how you think! You are speaking my language! 🙂

    I received this website yesterday, and it makes a LOT of sense to me. It discusses the statistic that people who live together before marriage are more likely to divorce. I’m a member of this statistic. 🙂 Interesting article.


  83.  #83Lucy on April 29, 2011 at 8:49 pm

    Rivergirl! That is my favorite movie and musical!!!!!! Haha! Thanks! 😀

  84.  #84Simply Shannon on April 29, 2011 at 8:51 pm

    LD, Hahahaha! I feel smiley and flattered. Isn’t he two hours away from you? If yes, then that’s three hours away from me. And I don’t do long distance. Bummer!

    Hehe. I feel so smiley. It would be uber weird, awkward, and yet funny to have a date in common. I wonder if that’s ever happened on Siren Island. 😀

  85.  #85Lucy on April 29, 2011 at 8:51 pm

    Doesn’t that song end with him speaking, “Eliza, you’re magnificent!”? 🙂 Lucy, you’re magnificent! Why thank you!

  86.  #86RiverGirl on April 29, 2011 at 8:51 pm

    @ 80,81

    Lucy, my thoughts are that the mistakes, if you want to call them that, are what make us wise. And they help us decide where to draw our own boundaries. Those mistakes also inform our intuition so we are able to trust it.

  87.  #87Lily T. on April 29, 2011 at 8:52 pm

    #81 Lucy,

    I wish I had known you then. I also lived in Florida. We could have been friends who emotionally supported each other.

  88.  #88Simply Shannon on April 29, 2011 at 8:53 pm

    LD, I am intensely curious to know what he looks like though. Is he on FB?

    P.S. Your dude is smokin’ hot. So happy for you! I love feeling inspired by these wonderful pairings! Confirms for me that I do not have to settle. Sweet!

  89.  #89Lucy on April 29, 2011 at 9:08 pm

    82. Hmmm. That article is an unintentional argument in favor of permanent cohabiting more than it is anything else! In fact, it’s actually quite a persuasive argument for choosing cohabiting over marriage.

  90.  #90LD on April 29, 2011 at 9:12 pm


    no he’s not on FB, sorry. I guess I could email you a pic if you’re really feeling curious. He’s kind of the boy next door type.

    Thanks for the compliment about D though. I feel lucky cuz he’s sweet and smart AND I’m attracted to him physically too! So glad I kept doing the work no matter how hard it got sometimes!

  91.  #91Lucy on April 29, 2011 at 9:19 pm

    86 Rivergirl. Good insights! So, that experience would lead to a possible boundary/wisdom: “Don’t have sex unless you’re willing to have a pregnancy with that person (with the ensuing choices of abortion, adoption, parenting).” I can’t get pregnant now, anyway, so that one no longer matters. But I’m sure there are others.

  92.  #92Lucy on April 29, 2011 at 9:21 pm

    87 Lily, that would’ve been great! 🙂 But at least we get to support each other Now. 🙂

  93.  #93Lucy on April 29, 2011 at 9:23 pm

    I want to see LD’s smokin’ hot dude!! How do we get to see him?

  94.  #94Jim on April 29, 2011 at 9:23 pm

    Lily T, Elizabeth & SummerBaby

    I left you all comments on the last thread, numbered 455, 456 & 457 respective.

    Thank you for your input.


  95.  #95LD on April 29, 2011 at 9:24 pm


    He’s on my FB…

  96.  #96Daria on April 29, 2011 at 9:25 pm

    “Looking at it from the outside it seems that to tell someone “you are bored” is like telling them that you don’t like what they are offering you, and by bringing it up at all, implying that you would like them to change.”

    It seems that way, but thats the nv’s.

    I feel bored just communicates how I feel. There are no judgements attached.

    I can receive and appreciate what he’s offering, and also share how I feel, even about that, I feel bored.

    It reminds me if I don’t smoke and he offers me a cigarette, I say thank you, I don’t want one.

    If I don’t judge my feeling, then ‘I feel bored’ can connect me in intimacy just as much as ‘I feel good’

    What’s important is being truly authentic, and deep enough to not judge

    I can say I feel flattered by your attention, and I feel bored too. I don’t want to talk about everyday things. What do you think?

    I feel good to connect with you, and this feels boring. What do you think?

    I don’t want… What don’t I want?

    I feel bored is a softening, a sharing of what’s going on with me..,

    I take the risk of… Being attacked, feeling abandoned… Not knowing

    And really, I risk that anyway, because it could always happen no matter what I share

  97.  #97RiverGirl on April 29, 2011 at 9:29 pm

    Lucy @91
    “So, that experience would lead to a possible boundary/wisdom: “Don’t have sex unless you’re willing to have a pregnancy with that person (with the ensuing choices of abortion, adoption, parenting).”

    Perhaps, or it maybe that a person is cool with just letting nature take it’s course and trusts that they can handle the consequences.

  98.  #98Lucy on April 29, 2011 at 9:37 pm

    96. That reminds me of my mom – whenever she opens her Christmas stocking from my dad, she’ll say stuff like, “What? I don’t want pre-packaged cashew turtles! I like the good stuff sold by the pound!” – and I always feel bad for my dad. You can tell he feels disappointed that he “got it wrong again”… but they get through it with love … but I have wondered if it would be better overall if she would graciously accept what he gave her without “criticizing” it. I suspect that if she did that, he might actua

  99.  #99Lucy on April 29, 2011 at 9:39 pm

    actually “get it right” next time. Hehe, I wonder if continuing to get it wrong is his way of passive-aggressively reacting to her “complaints.” Hmmm.

  100.  #100Lucy on April 29, 2011 at 9:41 pm

    LD, will I be able to find you on fb through Shannon?

  101.  #101Lucy on April 29, 2011 at 9:44 pm

    97 Rivergirl, I see that as another way to say the same thing, really.

  102.  #102Jilly on April 29, 2011 at 9:47 pm

    its way past my bed time…but i wanted to post real fast…Lilybelle.. i hope you like your new pics 🙂

    and PG…thank you for the post on the other thread..i loved it and felt good reading it!! I FB’d ya …i’m pretty sure it’s you

    so my first week of work and we just got a fire call to durango Co….i leave at 6 am!! uggg…k goodnight i’ll be back in a few days i hope!! meaning…i don’t want to camp for too many days …it’s too cold still!!! 🙂

  103.  #103RiverGirl on April 29, 2011 at 9:53 pm

    @ 96

    Daria, I guess the distinction for me is knowing why I am sharing that feeling. Whether it is simply sharing, or whether there is any underlying feeling of “I am bored because of who you are/what you are doing”. That may be subconciously felt as blame by the other person inspite of how carefully it is worded. The truth is the only reason I could ever feel bored with or about someone else is if I chose to feel bored.

    I just think that it is important to stay aware of why I am expressing a feeling because so often I have an expectation or desire attached.

  104.  #104RiverGirl on April 29, 2011 at 9:54 pm

    Lucy @ 101

    Yep, probably is! Haha

  105.  #105RiverGirl on April 29, 2011 at 10:00 pm

    Just reworking Rori’s mantra a bit.
    Perhaps, Trust your boundaries, Choose your feelings, Choose your words, Be surprised.

    Hmmm, I dunno. Might try that for awhile.

  106.  #106Daria on April 29, 2011 at 10:28 pm

    For me the archetype of marriage is not a man ‘owning’ a woman.

    Hmm or is it, without the negative connotation?

    It seems more like a handhold flying through the universal stars

  107.  #107Daria on April 29, 2011 at 10:29 pm

    Rivergirl – we don’t choose our feelings, that’s the only part of our experience that we don’t control, they happen

  108.  #108Daria on April 29, 2011 at 10:30 pm

    We can choose thoughts that lead to ferlings..,

  109.  #109Daria on April 29, 2011 at 10:32 pm

    Rivergirl – expressing I feel bored with what a man is offering me, if it’s my truth,

    Drops u’s into truth and intimacy

    It gives him a way to see what’s going on with me and step up

    Otherwise he’ll never know what’s behind the veil or have a chance to offer something different – and I will start feeling disconnected

  110.  #110Nikita on April 29, 2011 at 11:00 pm

    The royal wedding is a sign that my spiritual partnership is manifesting 🙂
    so, there!!!!!

  111.  #111Daria on April 29, 2011 at 11:03 pm

    Mm sharing this information in this circumstance feels bad.

  112.  #112kaitlyn on April 29, 2011 at 11:07 pm

    Went on a first date with a guy. He kept staring at me about everything. Right down to when I chewed food. To make me feel more creeped out, he made comments about everything I’d eat and which order I’d eat the food. And he was boring. Glad I’m out of there and back home alone.

  113.  #113kaitlyn on April 29, 2011 at 11:13 pm

    And he was too square for my liking. He didn’t know recognize a very common Clash song on the jukebox.

  114.  #114Daria on April 29, 2011 at 11:25 pm

    I must be celibate to deserve to receive what I want sexually.

    Belief I discovered I am changing

  115.  #115Lucy on April 29, 2011 at 11:26 pm

    Kaitlyn, I feel proud of you for going on a date. Sorry you didn’t like it. I guess I would be “square” too bc I don’t even know who or what “Clash” is! 😉

  116.  #116kaitlyn on April 29, 2011 at 11:29 pm

    Lucy, let’s start with ‘Rock the Casbah.’ But yeah thanks. Went out with some other guy 2 weeks ago. Another bore-fest and he didn’t read much.

  117.  #117Lucy on April 29, 2011 at 11:32 pm

    114 Daria, I held that belief before I was married – and my “celibacy requirement belief” included no onesomes! Which I was never able to accomplish so always thought I was Never gonna get what I wanted sexually and that was why. Sad. 🙁

  118.  #118kaitlyn on April 29, 2011 at 11:36 pm

    I’m always celibate unless I have a boyfriend or I feel it’s on the verge of exclusivity. Or (in the past) it’s a job. I can’t get turned on having casual sex. Tried it and it’s not for me.

  119.  #119Lucy on April 29, 2011 at 11:36 pm

    Kaitlyn, you will have what your heart is looking for, I am sure of it. <3

  120.  #120kaitlyn on April 29, 2011 at 11:37 pm

    And the odd thing is that I’m highly sexual and a deviant freeeeeaaak. But only with the right guy. And that is few and far between.

  121.  #121kaitlyn on April 29, 2011 at 11:38 pm

    Lucy, thanks. That made me cry.

  122.  #122Lucy on April 29, 2011 at 11:52 pm

    103 Rivergirl. Great insights! With the situation in question, my initial “bored” feeling was definitely “pointing outward,” blaming him. When I went back to reread his msg and respond (after talking about it on here), I suddenly did Not feel bored with it and sent a spontaneous cheeky question in response to his compliment. Well, he sent a long msg back that was anything But boring!! I feel excited again. I like what you said about “choosing to feel bored.” I’m glad I didn’t tell him I felt bored. It was a

  123.  #123Lucy on April 29, 2011 at 11:54 pm

    passing emotion. As MB says, “emotion= energy in motion.” And that’s why Rori says, “Feel your feelings, Choose your words.” 🙂

  124.  #124Lucy on April 30, 2011 at 12:04 am

    Oops, just saw your 105 Rivergirl. I would say “feel your feelings” is still good bc when we allow ourselves to feel them they can keep moving and change into something else … so we feel them – and choose whether to express them in words at that moment or wait to see if they shift. What do you think?

  125.  #125RiverGirl on April 30, 2011 at 12:13 am

    Daria @ 107,108
    “We can choose thoughts that lead to ferlings..,”

    Feelings, thoughts, new thoughts, new feelings, newer thoughts…its a feedback loop to tell us how we are doing. If we have a feeling that doesn’t fit with how we want to feel, then acknowledge it and take an action to move towards where you want to feel (either a real action, or a change to our thoughts)

  126.  #126Lucy on April 30, 2011 at 12:16 am

    Hey! I just realized that “be surprised” happened too, when I received his surprisingly exciting follow-up msg! So, I allowed myself to feel bored, acknowledged the feeling to myself, chose to Not say it to him right away, did other stuff (taking care of me), then I felt un-bored and chose to share words that reflected my now-playful feeling state… and was surprised! Cool!

  127.  #127RiverGirl on April 30, 2011 at 12:19 am


    Lucy, I was so deep in thought about my feelings I missed your comment. I think we are on a similar wavelength about that.

  128.  #128Lucy on April 30, 2011 at 12:27 am

    Kaitlyn 118. I was just thinking about this the other day – wondering whether or not prostitutes (hoping that’s a non-offensive word choice!) get turned on with their clients, and if they don’t does it feel uncomfortable…. Just curious – the things I wonder about sometimes! – no pressure to share if you don’t want to. <3

  129.  #129RiverGirl on April 30, 2011 at 12:30 am

    Just a side note, Dr Paul talks about a sadness/anger spectrum where boredom falls on the anger side of the spectrum.

  130.  #130Lucy on April 30, 2011 at 12:32 am

    106 Daria. For me, the archetype of marriage is what is described in the B*ble… and is very beautiful and not about “ownership” at all (at least not in the sense of “property”).

  131.  #131Meemee on April 30, 2011 at 12:37 am

    Woke up.
    Slept for almost ten hours.
    What a sleep.
    I dreamt of a guy who had asked me out for a dinner a couple of weeks back (it didnt happen)
    Got up and feeling dull.
    Mild abdomen pain.
    going to finish some writing.
    May be I will go to a coffee shop and work from there.
    Sitting inside the house makes me feel gloomy

  132.  #132Meemee on April 30, 2011 at 12:41 am

    I think i attract men with bad behavior. This guy whom I dreamt of last night, he fixed dinners and coffees with me more than once but disappeared without following it up.
    Last time when he did that, I decided those who disappear from my life like this, better stay disappred. I didnt call him or text him.
    I should find out the reason why I attract men of the same bad behavior.
    Can there be any soilid reason?


  133.  #133kaitlyn on April 30, 2011 at 12:46 am

    We don’t get turned on. The guy could be Brad Pitt and love all the same authors and share the same values as you, but it still feels like a job. Even though you’re not turned on (or off in some cases. You’re just there like whatever mentally), it doesn’t feel uncomfortable physically. But sometimes you feel mentally uncomfortable like when they’re a somewhat new client and they ask too many personal questions. All of a sudden, I’m no longer that ‘open book kaitlyn’ you all know, my friends all know. It’s not because the questions are too invasive, it’s just the uncertainty of if they’ll see you again. No hooker (same goes for strippers also even though they don’t bang their clients) wants to feel like they ruined a future sale by dispelling any mystery. As we all know, too much info too soon ruins attraction. Then when you feel the client is picking up on your uneasiness about convo, you worry ‘oh, he’s thinking i’m a hardened hooker. not a good impression i’m making.’ Oddly, RR helped my sales when I started lurking here for 3 weeks in 2009. The guys were requesting me more and tipping even more generously. Though, I came here for my real life guy questions, not my hooker ones.

  134.  #134kaitlyn on April 30, 2011 at 12:50 am

    “I think i attract men with bad behavior. This guy whom I dreamt of last night, he fixed dinners and coffees with me more than once but disappeared without following it up.
    Last time when he did that, I decided those who disappear from my life like this, better stay disappred. I didnt call him or text him.
    I should find out the reason why I attract men of the same bad behavior.
    Can there be any soilid reason?


    When this happens (no, I do not place Adam and I’s situation in this category), I wonder…ok, rubberband theory OR just plain a$$wipe.

  135.  #135Meemee on April 30, 2011 at 12:52 am

    what is rubberband theory?
    that men are like rubberbands?

  136.  #136kaitlyn on April 30, 2011 at 12:54 am


    Google John Gray rubberband theory. Hard to explain.

  137.  #137Lucy on April 30, 2011 at 1:08 am

    Kaitlyn, thanks for satisfying my curiosity. 🙂

  138.  #138Lucy on April 30, 2011 at 1:21 am

    Hey, I’m watching late night TV and they just advertised “zestra” for “increased sexual satisfaction.” Anyone here ever try it? How about that “KY his and hers”?

  139.  #139Daria on April 30, 2011 at 1:23 am

    Starting to feel turned on with any man I open up to! Woo hoo

    Last night was with guy friend and lately, he’s been hitting on me more…my vibe is softer and I’m more open than before

    So last night he was and I started opening up. Looking at him in the eyes while he’s talking… Realized it’s the first time ever I looked at him really and really listened to him.

    As I listened to him his conversation started seeming less boring and more real intriguing and alive.

    Then I opened up a bit of my body as he lay on me holding me. Still pushing him off of touching parts of me where it felt ‘too hot’

    And just being quiet, with him. The looking in his eyes and my untiggered, quiet softness got him

    And he started falling in love

    And I started feeling attracted to him… First time ever and I’ve known him for like 10 years

    I felt amazed at what happens when I open up yet of course honor my boundary, even in little things like not letting myself be pulled down from my rose stem spine

    and just allowing him to hold me and massage me as it felt comfortable

    Noticing he would’ve done anything for me then

    He said he always got a good vibe from me 🙂

  140.  #140Daria on April 30, 2011 at 1:28 am

    I felt surprised… Right before I started opening to him.. I thought about how im not attracted to him… Thinking he’s a bit dull… And doesn’t ‘get’ me

    Then started opening and… Found myself struts Ted and turned on

    Btw Tman was right, I Am turned on many times and not even realizing it… W men. I am starting to notice it

  141.  #141kaitlyn on April 30, 2011 at 1:35 am


    Right before I opened up to Adam, though he was clearly attracted to me, I thought about how he has no swagger, his bottom row teeth have a gap, and he’s too quiet. I could feel his leg brush mine. And it stayed there. Forever. Like, for hours! Finally, I gave in and ran my hand down his leg. His vibe shifted immediately into an alter ego that conjured up lust inside me all of a sudden.

  142.  #142kaitlyn on April 30, 2011 at 1:36 am

    Fsck. Now I’m sad and angry remembering that. It feels like torment knowing he’s probably over me.

  143.  #143The Lurker on April 30, 2011 at 2:00 am

    #135 Meemee, Rori mentioned the rubberband problem in this story about negative feelings:
    “It Will Bring Him Closer If You Do It This Way…”

    “Usually – when we stop holding back, all kinds of things happen – most often with results that aren’t what we wanted. It’s like a rubber band you’ve been pulling and pulling apart until it reaches maximum tension and then you let go and SNAP – it flies (and usually hits our man right in the face).

    So try this: instead of “letting go” and letting fly, hang onto yourself in a simple way – don’t DO anything – just give up trying to hold it back. This way, the “rubber band” just returns to its limp, graceful shape without a reaction that creates a whole new set of issues and moments and feelings for you to deal with.”

    Negative feelings built a tension up inside you (that’s the rubberband), and it will be harmful for the relationship if this energy is directed at the partner (letting the band snap at him). The trick is not to fight the neagative feelings in the first place, but to let them out in a “secure” way (letting the rubberband go limp again).

  144.  #144kaitlyn on April 30, 2011 at 2:15 am

    Rori is describing the rubberband as the relationship, but John Gray decribes the rubberband as the man. And he gives a scientific reason for why men do it and how we should handle it to build or maintain attraction.

  145.  #145The Lurker on April 30, 2011 at 2:24 am

    #142, Oh, no, Kaitlyn, you can’t know that! Girl, it would be good if you would find a way to avoid those negative feelings. They’re only based on assumptions, but you don”t have a crystal ball and you’re no mindreader, either. I dunno, maybe you should tell that to yourself like a mantra whenever the feeling that Adam is over you pops up: “I am no mindreader, I don’t know how he feels. I don’t have a crystal ball, I don’t know what the future holds.” You have to find a way to break this habit of torturing yourself, because all that blame is totally useless for changing the situation. It only makes it worse.

    I know how such heartbreak feels from personal experience. And I haven’t found the magic trick to get rid of all the hurtful feelings either. Sometimes I managed to feel better by reminding myself that my love isn’t about me in the first place but about my sweetheart. And then thinking about the good things happening in her life, and that made me happy for her. Sadly, that doesn’t always work. Guess I’m a bit too self centered and possesive to maintain that altruistic point of view all the time.

    I checked if Rori has written something that would be helpful now, and found this:
    “Don’t Let Go, Don’t Resolve, Forget Closure and Stay On Your Horse”
    Imho it’s a bit too harsh about us guys, but still some good points in it. Maybe food for thought.

  146.  #146kaitlyn on April 30, 2011 at 2:32 am


    I’ve read that Rori entry like 80 times. I get it and it resonates with me, but it’s not working for me. What you said works more for me. Then you killed it by saying you still long for her. Great. I appreciate your honesty and you did no wrong. I just feel triggered when you said you still long for her. But I don’t want you forsaking honesty to shield our feelings on the blog, ok?

  147.  #147The Lurker on April 30, 2011 at 2:33 am

    #144, Thank you, Kaitlyn! Wanted to know more about Gray’s different approach, and found it instantly w/ google:

    He’s the author of “Men Are From Mars…”? Damn, I really have a lousy memory for details, especially names!

  148.  #148The Lurker on April 30, 2011 at 2:41 am

    #146 Sry, Kaitlyn! That’s typical for me. Trying to be helpful, but unitentionally ruining it.

    However, I don’t see why the fact that I still love that woman has to be negative. I believe there isn’t only one love in life, but many people we can love, so this helps me to put my feelings into a different perspective. I don’t have to have her, there’s another love waiting somewhere for me, so I shouldn’t focus so much on her. Of course, that doesn’t rule out that there may be a revival, but that isn’t the only possibility. The important point is to move on in the pursuit of happiness, and to give life a chance to surprise me!

  149.  #149The Lurker on April 30, 2011 at 3:13 am

    #139 Daria, that’s so great! It’s impressive how embracing your feelings and using Rori’s tools work for you, changing your experiences. Aparently, this openness not only makes you even more attractive, but also feeling more comfortable when being together with men. And that makes life much more enjoyable.

  150.  #150The Lurker on April 30, 2011 at 4:41 am

    #82 Shannon, imho Lucy got that perfectly right in #89: If you don’t simply accept the author’s point of view, but read that story with a critical eye, the (uninteded) conclusion is that people are more happy in cohabitation, because it keeps selfishness in reign. Also, it’s noticeable that there isn’t any data proving that married couples are actually more happy than the unmarried ones. Which begs the question, what is more important, how long a marriage lasts, or how happy people are in a relationship?

    As I see it, the author falls into the well known trap of not being openminded about the result of his analysis, but instead making the result he likes to see the starting point. See, the whole question how cohabitation effects marriage implies that marriage is the superior form of relationship! It leaves all long term relationships that don’t result in marriage out of the picture. And that, of course, distorts the “results”. It’s like putting the wedding carriage before the horses.

    Without wanting to spend too much time on the subject, just some points that are missing or wrong in this story:

    – No discussion of the quality (happiness) of the relationships, only of the quantity (duration). But marriage isn’t a value per se, only if it makes both partners happy! So, the omission to look at the quality aspect already ruins the whole analysis.

    – Of course, the change of relationship that often comes with marriage has an impact on the chances for breakup. Those folks who go “directly” into marriage simply don’t know that their relationship could be different. You can’t miss what you don’t know!

    – The author doesn’t say anywhere that couples who marry without living together before are able to avoid the problem of one partner becoming selfish. Actually, common sense tells us that without a different experience, they’re probably even more at risk to have such a onesided, unhappy relationship. That point isn’t adressed in the story.

    – The text says, “the risk of divorce is higher than 80 percent if a couple live together fewer than three years prior to marriage”. Sounds horrible, so I looked into the abstract of the original authors to learn more: “Our results indicate that women who premaritally cohabit have almost 80 percent higher marital dissolution rates than those who do not cohabit.” Hello??? This is very much different from the point Dr. Harley made! Looks like he totally misunderstood the math. Btw, the data of that study is from Sweden, not the US, which should raise red flags, too. Also, it seems the authors didn’t add the length of cohabitation to the duration of marriage, which, of course, is unfairly distorting the results.

    – A not-so-fun fact I found while looking for other statistics: Did you you that 100% of marriages by male Aussies aged 15-19 will end in divorce after 20 years max? But only 45.2% of those aged 20-24? Looks like some years of cohabitation improve the chances for a lasting marriage…

    I’m not interested enough to spend more time with that story. To me, it’s already quite clear that the author’s misguided appraoch and questionable handling of facts seriously tainted his conclusions. For people who want to know the best way to have a happy relationship, a onesided approach like that of Dr. Harley doesn’t offer any help. Let’s forget about this.

  151.  #151The Lurker on April 30, 2011 at 4:49 am

    Uh, rereading my last comment, I see I should have been more precise about that statistical data on young Aussie males. Actually, it’s the divorce expectation that is at 100% after 20 years of marriage. Of course, there are also some marriages that end because one partners dies, so, not all end in divorce, pls don’t be confused about this. If you want to read more, here’s that (rather boring) study:

  152.  #152Lily T. on April 30, 2011 at 4:55 am

    @ Lurch #150
    Well done.

    I didn’t do the research, but does it include the ages of the individuals at the time of co-habitation/marriage? Religious beliefs? Adherence to traditional cultural beliefs? (ie: cultures where divorce carries a high stigma, perhaps ostracization from the community)

    Also, if the study was done in Sweden, I believe that country has much higher co-habitation and non-married birth rate than even the US. The value attatched to legal marriage may not be the same as that in the US and divorce even “less stigmatized” there.

    So when are you going to change your screen name?

  153.  #153The Lurker on April 30, 2011 at 5:12 am

    #152 Lily, I only found the abstract, and I’m not interested enought to pay for a copy. So, sorry, I can’t answer this. The abstract can be found here:

    And here’s the sentence that shows the authors left the duration of cohabitation out of their picture: “Last, cohabitors and non-cohabitors whose marriages have remained intact for eight years appear to have identical dissolution rates after that time.”
    Well, that’s great, but at that point the couples who lived together before marriage have already 8+x rates on their diary! This should have been taken into account.

    As for Sweden, indeed, I read countless times, too, that they have a very different, almost unique attitude towards marriage and relationships. They’re almost famous for their “patchwork families”. And since nobody is an island, but instead influenced by his surroundings in multiple ways, imho it’s quite useless to try to use this data from a very different society as the base for conclusions about couples in the US. Totally agree with you on this.

    And, ok, my screen name – I haven’t found one that is more to my liking yet. And “The Lurker” ain’t so bad. Maybe I should relativate the negative implications of the phrase by adding a gravatar, a cute little monster looking curiously out of a pond of muddled water, what do you think?

  154.  #154Lily T. on April 30, 2011 at 5:22 am

    I think a cute avatar would be most welcome. You could even use a picture of “Lurch” smiling (grimacing) lol!

  155.  #155The Lurker on April 30, 2011 at 5:46 am

    New gravatar is up…
    Kiss me, princesses!

  156.  #156Lily T. on April 30, 2011 at 6:04 am


  157.  #157Femininepower on April 30, 2011 at 6:05 am

    Lurk is the shyness dissipating? I sense an increase in confidence.

  158.  #158Mercedes on April 30, 2011 at 6:11 am

    “If you think love first, and let results happen as you follow the path of what makes you feel good and happy – you’ll find your love life.”

    That is awesome!

    tinque: I’m with you. Such a private thing made into a public display. 🙁 Takes away from the true meaning of even the ceremony if you ask me.

    Much Love,

  159.  #159The Lurker on April 30, 2011 at 6:18 am

    #156 Oooh, Lily, what a kiss. Now I am the red frog! :blush:

    #157 FP, that confidence is still more virtual than real. The girls I’m interested in are mostly middle class (that’s because I look for someone who is intellectually equal), and with my lousy job and income situation right now, dating is difficult. I’m thinking a bit traditional in this regard, I want to pay the bill (and I see that’s in sync with what Rori sez). I also are under the impression that most girls want someone who contributes financially to a relationship (I say this without judgment, I see that this is part of the need for security). So, this handicaps me right now. That’s why I say I have to focus more on rl. Any improvements there would add to my own happiness, too, and prolly help the frog to find a princess with tender and hot lips…

    But enough with this talk about me now, pls! It makes me feel uncomfortable. Uh, how’s the weather at your place, FP?

  160.  #160Femininepower on April 30, 2011 at 6:22 am

    Lurk does it ever occur to you that someone could accept you with the handicaps? Maybe opening up and speaking about them could help you feel comfortable so that when the opportunity presents itself you will not be so inhibited. Some of us women subscribe to the concept of building a life together with a man. IMHO it brings people together.

    The weather is absolutely fabulous.

  161.  #161Femininepower on April 30, 2011 at 6:24 am

    Uncomfortable is good because it tells you that you are out of your comfort zone and can grow. Okay enough.

  162.  #162The Lurker on April 30, 2011 at 6:30 am

    #161 “Lurk does it ever occur to you that someone could accept you with the handicaps?”
    In theory, yes, but in practise I notice the girls run away from my x-ray stare and the horny grin…
    (Just kidding! I’m improving, really. Let’s leave it at that for now.)

    Weather is great here, too, FP. The water in my pond is very refreshing. Why don’t you jump in?

  163.  #163Turquoise3 on April 30, 2011 at 6:30 am

    Good morning Sirens. 🙂 I went and got a hair cut yesterday, it’s all silky smooth, and very sireny 🙂 I wish I could keep it this straight! I have a great flat iron, but never get it as straight as my stylist. I also caught up on my sleep… and feel fabulous.

    I had a dream that I was dating a man who had secrets, and a lot of money and I was checking up on him, and felt fearful of his moods. He was overly emotional and hard on himself, I was trying to calm him… but the sex was exciting. I hope I don’t manifest anything like that in real life. I woke up unhappy about the dream.

  164.  #164Femininepower on April 30, 2011 at 6:32 am

    Don’t like ponds for swimming Lurk. I am a Caribbean girl who likes the clear blue sandy beaches or pools.

  165.  #165Turquoise3 on April 30, 2011 at 6:33 am


    I don’t understand why would don’t want us to know what country you are from. There aren’t that many of us on here regularly in comparison to how big the world is. You’d still definitely be anonymous. It reminds me of dating a man you can’t get close to, because they have a wall up.

  166.  #166Femininepower on April 30, 2011 at 6:33 am

    RE 163 Could it be your unconscious mind bringing to your awareness the type of man that you attract?

  167.  #167Turquoise3 on April 30, 2011 at 6:36 am

    I don’t know FP. None of the guys I’ve gone out with lately fit that description. Doesn’t feel like the same vibe I have about my ex… not sure what it means.

  168.  #168Turquoise3 on April 30, 2011 at 6:38 am

    In the dream, it felt like I was looking for an opening to get out of a bad situation. Like I knew he was trouble.

  169.  #169RiverGirl on April 30, 2011 at 6:38 am

    Camille, perhaps he has learned how women are drawn to a mysterious man and is honing his skills here. 😉

  170.  #170The Lurker on April 30, 2011 at 6:45 am

    #165 Oh, Turquoise, don’t ruin my fun! It was so exciting for me that nobody here made any remarks about my written English, despite the occasional typos and grammar errors. And now I’m waiting if people will eventually draw conclusions from the timestamps of my comments and other hints that may show in my writing.

    But, ok: As you all probably have noticed by now, I’m a stubborn square, without any sense of humor, obsessed with a deep seated belief that my opinions trump those of everybody else, I’m very aggressive and also a horrible bore. So, I’m just the living stereotype for my nation’s citizen (NOT! 😀 )

    Ok, now, where do I come from?

  171.  #171Lily T. on April 30, 2011 at 6:46 am

    I’m also curious as to why Lurch won’t reveal his country. Are you ashamed of where you are from? That the people here will make judgements? Wondering if you are in a country the US is at war with. And that leaves several options- sigh.

  172.  #172Femininepower on April 30, 2011 at 6:47 am

    Turquoise3 I have had dreams that signalled things coming up in the future. Not saying this is what your dream is but one never knows. IMHO being aware is your best bet in light of the dream.

  173.  #173The Lurker on April 30, 2011 at 6:49 am

    #164 FP, one day I’ll leave my small pond and explore the shores of the ocean, too. And I hope you’ll be there, sunbathing, when I hop along!

  174.  #174Femininepower on April 30, 2011 at 6:51 am

    RE 170 Lurk for the record I respect your choice of sharing what you wish. I would prefer you share when you feel comfortable to do so because I don’t see it changing anything as you are in cyberspace. I prefer inspiring rather than cohercing. I have also not noticed major impressionable problems with english. I like your presence here so I want to create the space for you to share your personal info when you are ready and feel comfortable doing so.

  175.  #175Femininepower on April 30, 2011 at 6:52 am

    OOoooooooohhhhhhhhhhh Lurks

  176.  #176The Lurker on April 30, 2011 at 6:55 am

    #171 Lily, it’s partly that I don’t like to become the subject of the widespread stereotyping. Also, I don’t want to talk about my country’s politics and the differences to the US so much. I’m commenting at US blogs because I’m interested in America, and so I want to talk about the US, not such much about Europe (I also want to improve my English, and that seems to work quite well). Really, no big mystery here, I don’t hide an exciting secret, sorry!

  177.  #177Lily T. on April 30, 2011 at 6:55 am


    Maybe you dream is just a way of processing the things that are written and discussed here: previous “unhappy” relationships, “don’t wants” along with sexual desires; tools for limiting, resolving conflict. What do you think?

  178.  #178Lily T. on April 30, 2011 at 6:58 am

    It’s cool Lurker. FWIW, it never occured to me from your English that you weren’t,/i> from America. I hope you don’t find that insulting lol! 🙂

  179.  #179Turquoise3 on April 30, 2011 at 7:03 am

    You are probably right Lily. This is all on my mind a lot more now with being on the blog.

    Lurker, you sound American. I haven’t noticed anything with your writing.

    I lived in Germany for 3 years and while there I visited France, England, Belguim, Holland, Denmark (actually got married there), Poland, Spain, Luxemborg and Mallorca. I drove through Switzerland and Austria. Just wonder if I’ve been on your stomping ground 🙂

    Looking like a beautiful day here in Pittsburgh 🙂 Yippeeeeee… no rain for a day or two!

  180.  #180Femininepower on April 30, 2011 at 7:06 am

    Watching a movie with a smartmouthed whip sharp woman who some guys asked another to hit on to get her off their case because she is the older sister of their wives. She said to him “any man I go out with has to respect, my mind, body and spirit”. When initially told about her he asked what was wrong with her because she was looking so fine but was available.

  181.  #181The Lurker on April 30, 2011 at 7:07 am

    #177 Good point, Lily, that’s what I suspect, too. That thrilling but dangerous guy in Turquoises dreams is probably a Frankenstein unconsciously created from stuff that was discussed here.

    And even though that dream seems to have been a bit disturbing, that makes me envious, Turquoise! I much too seldomly remember my dreams. Wonder if I dreamed of you girls and your stories, too. That would certainly have been a colorful fantasy about a flirtatious Siren, who put her assets into the best light and made me feel very relaxed and masculine at the same time. Hopefully ending in a hot making out on the living room floor, or even in the car. Yummy! Pie.

  182.  #182Lily T. on April 30, 2011 at 7:07 am

    #179 Turq,

    I’ve noticed since I started participating on this blog, I spend much more time thinking about past relationships, aspects of relationships in general, and sometimes wondering what a future relationship might look like. I haven’t had any related dreams yet, but it wouldn’t surprise me if they appear given the amount of time I’ve been spending here.

  183.  #183Lily T. on April 30, 2011 at 7:10 am

    “Deliver Us From Eva” on tbs, FP?

    Just read the description of that movie on the channel guide.

  184.  #184Femininepower on April 30, 2011 at 7:11 am

    The couple is on their first date all dressed up and he brought his meat wagon truck to pick her up. She is sitting next to him with her arms folded in front of her. That communicated to me that she is still a bit closed off from his advances. Interesting

  185.  #185Turquoise3 on April 30, 2011 at 7:11 am

    Usually I dream about men that I know. My ex husband, men I’ve dated… even one of the teachers at my daughter’s school has made repeat appearances. This guy, I didn’t recognize. I conjured him up.

    Most of the dreams I remember are the ones I have early in the morning, right before I wake up. Sometimes, I’ll wake up, and then fall back asleep into the same dream.

  186.  #186The Lurker on April 30, 2011 at 7:12 am

    #179 Turqoise Yup, you’ve been in my country, too, among others. Nice!
    Sorry, this makes me curious: What were you doing in Europe? And how come you married in Denmark, of all places?

  187.  #187Femininepower on April 30, 2011 at 7:12 am

    Yes. I didn’t even check the title because I was watching between my workouts.

  188.  #188Femininepower on April 30, 2011 at 7:15 am

    He says she has electrified pins with rabit pitbulls around her heart.

  189.  #189Femininepower on April 30, 2011 at 7:15 am

    Sorry “rabid”

  190.  #190The Lurker on April 30, 2011 at 7:24 am

    #183 Ah! Thx to Lily, and imdb, now I understand what you’re talking about, girls. Interesting:

    “Eva Dandridge is a very uptight young woman who constantly meddles in the affairs of her sisters and their husbands. Her in-laws, who are tired of Eva interfering in their lives, decide to set her up with someone so she can leave them alone. They end up paying Ray, the local “playboy,” $5,000 to date her. The plan goes by smoothly, but troubles comes when Ray actually falls in love with Eva.”

  191.  #191Amazing Me on April 30, 2011 at 7:24 am

    Ok I know you all are tired of my talking about armyguy…but news is I am going there on tuesday and we are going to catch up on things. He and I spoke on the phone and had a long convo about an hour and it was good made me feel good. I asked him if he remembered why I stopped communicating with him and he didn;t want to be reminded so I think he knew but no apology for it just said he didnt want to hear what he knew he regret saying. Then he asked me to go to this military ball in Tampa in June! I was like wow, uhh…a lil nervous but said I could do that. He then asked me to bring some formal dresses to his house on Tuesday to show him and “we” could see what I would wear…What do you guys think, Mercedes…Lily, Lurker(male point of view) would be appreciative…

  192.  #192Lily T. on April 30, 2011 at 7:31 am

    I know you are excited about him AM, but I’m sorry–I feel the fact he wouldn’t acknowledge or apologize for saying cruel things to you doesn’t bode well. I feel bad about it.

  193.  #193Femininepower on April 30, 2011 at 7:36 am

    RE 191 Guys forget. However, the basic nature only changes when someone consciously chooses to change. I would pay attention to see if something from the past personality creeps out. The ball IMHO is just him sharing that he wants to spend some time with you. It does not necessarily mean anything more than so I would be cautious about pinning any meaning to it.

  194.  #194Femininepower on April 30, 2011 at 7:37 am

    RE 190 That’s definitely it.

  195.  #195The Lurker on April 30, 2011 at 7:40 am

    #191 “He then asked me to bring some formal dresses to his house on Tuesday to show him and “we” could see what I would wear”

    Ha! In his wet dreams. Amazing, sry, I don’t remember the details of what you already told us (too many stories here, they go a bit hodgepodge in my memory), but this certainly goes way too far after he screwed up and didn’t make good for it yet. This sounds like a sexy fantasy of him: You coming with some nice dresses to his place and doing a fashion show exclusively for him. Preferrably with you dressing/undressing in front of his hungry eyes. What did he do to deserve that, yet? Sry, much too much leaning forward, imho!

    You should answer this by telling him that he has to rely on your superior judgment when it comes to your choice of dress, and if he doesn’t have enough trust in you to not embarass him with your clothes, he should rather look for someone else to invite to that party. Maybe not in these words, put into FMs instead, but that should be the content of what you tell him. Really, imho it’s quite brazen for him to come up with this idea after not even apologizing for his last screw up.

  196.  #196Lily T. on April 30, 2011 at 7:44 am

    It also sounds odd to me, maybe even a little controlling? that he would want to pick out the dress you wear to this event. Kinda like he’s inviting you so he can show up with someone “appropriate”, rather than inviting you for the pleasure of your company.

  197.  #197The Lurker on April 30, 2011 at 7:48 am

    #196 From my male point of view, the main point behind this is that he wants to have his own private fashion show, hopefully including hot sex with the model. Come on, which guy is ever concerned that his girl will show up at an important party, dressed like trash? That almost never happens. No, really, the point about the party is just an alibi, this is about eye candy and sex. Which would be ok, if the girl likes to be the object of desire, but probably not at this point in the relationship. He firstly has to make good again before he gets any rewards!

  198.  #198Femininepower on April 30, 2011 at 7:50 am

    RE 195 Wow Lurker thanks for that. Talk about taking a peek inside the mind of a man.

  199.  #199Lily T. on April 30, 2011 at 7:54 am

    Yeah Lurk. I sometimes forget that the “basics” for men often come down to just sex. No higher motivation.

  200.  #200Femininepower on April 30, 2011 at 7:54 am

    Lurker I have read something about a kind of reset button in relationships. As in after a break up happens then the girl comes back it seems in the guys mind things start back where they were left off. Kind of no need to deal with issues of the breakup unless the girl wants to so things can move forward. Hope I was clear as I would love your take on it.

  201.  #201LD on April 30, 2011 at 7:54 am


    I agree with the others, it feels controlling and all about him to invite you to come to HIS house to help HIM decorate and then bring dresses so that HE can approve of them.

    How far from you does he live? It sounds like he lives in another state from you? Not only should he be apologizing, but he should be driving to YOU to take you out on a date!!!

  202.  #202The Lurker on April 30, 2011 at 7:56 am

    #198 FP, I can totally relate to that! A hot fantasy for us guys, and I actually suggested the same to a girlfriend some time ago. This is totally ok and probably lots of hot fun in a loving, exclusive relationship. But Amazing and army guy aren’t at this point now, right? And if he gets such a reward now, after he just screwed up, that would be the totally wrong signal. He has to see that he has to do more to earn such a special treatment.

  203.  #203Femininepower on April 30, 2011 at 7:57 am

    Reading LDs comments now I sense a lot of focussing on what the man is doing so I am asking why does AM not feel she deserves more? Why are you there?

  204.  #204T-Girl on April 30, 2011 at 8:00 am

    Tuquoise, your talk about your dream has reminded me of something that happened a couple of weeks ago and I don’t know what to make of it.

    I was laying in bed and just finished praying – something to the effect of I know He has someone in mind for me that is my one and I will be patient until he gets here. About five minutes later, a VERY vivid image of a man’s face that I have never seen before flashed in my mind. It took me a few seconds to realize what had just happened. The face was so detailed, so vivid and colorful that I got up and wrote down what had just happened.

    I never had anything happen like that before and don’t know what to make of it. I know what I would like to think I make of it…

  205.  #205The Lurker on April 30, 2011 at 8:03 am

    #199 Well, Lily, pretending we’re pure angels wouldn’t help you girls at all, so I’m honest about this. But there are some higher motivations, like patriotism, humanism, religion, etc. But I don’t see this involved here. If Amazing doesn’t really suffer under a very much untypical bad judgment regarding fashion, that idea about “chosing the right dress together” is a very thinly disguised demand to put up a show for him and then have sex. And that’s at least one bridge too far right now, imho.

  206.  #206LD on April 30, 2011 at 8:03 am

    I personally have found that if you drive to see a man early on, he will generally expect that to happen often from then on. In fact, the ones I have made the mistake of driving to early on have expected me to come to them MORE OFTEN than they came to me. It’s best to establish them driving to you early on and then maybe change things up every once in awhile and go to them.

    My sister once told me that men fall into routines more easily than we do. She told me about the first time her ex husband went on a military exercise and she had to mow the grass while he was gone. She said when he came back he just never mowed the grass again and she always had to do it or it wouldn’t get done. Almost like he thought there was some unspoken agreement that since she had established a routine of mowing the grass while he was gone, that that routine would just remain in place when he came back. She now firmly believes that a woman should never start doing anything for a man that she doesn’t intend to continue doing indefinitely…

  207.  #207Lily T. on April 30, 2011 at 8:06 am

    I appreciate your honesty and willingness to share the “male point of view”. Even at the risk, as females, we may not like it. Don’t ever feel you need to tell us what we might *like* to hear.

  208.  #208Femininepower on April 30, 2011 at 8:08 am

    RE 204 Lily T the same exact thing happened to me three days ago in the shower. He represented everything I wanted even the things that I had struggled with accepting as if I don’t deserve it. I wrote to kaitlyn about the tapping because I was not tapping but the questions were going over and over again in my mind when the picture popped up.

  209.  #209The Lurker on April 30, 2011 at 8:10 am

    #200 Yup, FP, that’s a good point. Happens more often than not, we guys apologize or stutter some lame half-apologies, and then think we’re back on track and can go on like nothing happened. Only to be totally confused if it doesn’t work ot that way. And, damn, come to think of this, I’m guilty of such wishful thinking, too, in the past…

  210.  #210Lily T. on April 30, 2011 at 8:11 am

    #206 LD,

    I had that happen in a relationship when I once helped a guy I was dating clean his apt. before his mother visited. I thought I was “helping him out”. Subsequently living with him I found he never picked up after himself and if I wanted a neat home I would be the one to ALWAYS pick up after him.

    I agree with your sister.

  211.  #211Femininepower on April 30, 2011 at 8:11 am

    Wow Lurker thanks again for that. Will definitely keep it in mind.

  212.  #212Lily T. on April 30, 2011 at 8:22 am

    So Lurk,

    What ‘procedure’ do recommend with a guy who wants to pick up where he left off without discussing previous “injuries”?

  213.  #213The Lurker on April 30, 2011 at 8:22 am

    To avoid misunderstandings: If Amazing likes to have sex with army guy, it’s her choice. Then she should have a date with him, where HE drives to her town, where HE invites her to a nice restaurant or activity, and where HE pays the bill. But he just recently screwed up, but still he expects HER to drive to his place, to help him decorating his place, and then to put up a hot fashion show for him? D’oh.

    I am all for girls rewarding us guys every now and then with such a great treatment, that “leaning forward” rule should have room for exceptions, but onyl if we did yomething to earn the reward. If such onesided favors are the standard in a relationship, what’s in it for the girl?

  214.  #214Lilybelle on April 30, 2011 at 8:24 am

    204: T-Girl,

    WOW! THAT is exciting stuff!!

    Can’t wait to see how this plays out.


  215.  #215Lily T. on April 30, 2011 at 8:27 am

    From what I understand, Amazing’s guy didn’t screw up ‘recently’–it was sometime last year. It is only recently he contacted her ‘out of the blue’ so to speak after she broke off all contact with him.

    One thing that I want to bring up Amazing, is that a couple times you have written that you love this man. A couple times you have also written that you “want to get to know him better”. How is it that you love someone you don’t feel you know that well?

  216.  #216Lilybelle on April 30, 2011 at 8:28 am


    Oh Mysterious One,

    LOVED your take on Amazing Me’s dude. Right on the money and what she should say…


    I’ve said it before, will say it again… Love having you here.


  217.  #217Femininepower on April 30, 2011 at 8:28 am

    That was a great movie. It spoke of being on the bridge. It spoke about how kids who are abandoned spend their lives fearing that their lives will eventually falling apart. First time he rode on the horse with her on a date he kept falling off, screaming but she kept riding and not looking back to help him. I felt there were some themes that Rori focusses on addressing.

    The end was more beautiful to me than the Royal wedding. She told him love was a choice and he sold his house, gave up his promotion and bought a horse and house for her and followed her to Chicago. He said he would show up at her job every day until she knew for sure that he will not live his life without her. She was tough as nails but nothing deterred him after he had fallen in love with her.

    I enjoyed it and I loved the end. It ended with the song “My cheerie amour”.

  218.  #218Amazing Me on April 30, 2011 at 8:28 am

    Thank you all for your comments, I didn’t see it that way I told him I would buy a dress and be the hottest woman there and he said there you go! Like good confidence vibe. I know what I deserve and what I want but I cannot help but think this man is a good person and is working through his own issues. For me I am sticking to boundries and wont take any less…he lives an hour from me so I am being a friend to help him out, No sex…just see after the year of him being out of my life if the man I was once in love with is still in there…Make sense, Like I guess I am doing it more for me then him at this moment before I decide going further or wasting time on a man that does not reciprocate.

  219.  #219Femininepower on April 30, 2011 at 8:30 am

    RE 218 AM remember to check in on your intuition and how you feel. Forget about what you think abut him. Sorry for being dictatorial and boying there, telling you what to do.

  220.  #220Lilybelle on April 30, 2011 at 8:32 am


    Sounds like your sister is a smart woman, too.

    What did you decide to do about the minister?



  221.  #221The Lurker on April 30, 2011 at 8:33 am

    #212 Damn, I’m no relationship coach, so I’m a bit concerned about unitentionally giving bad advice. But I’m all for honesty. Amazing should tell him that his recent screw up is forgiven, that nobody is perfect, but that it of course had an impact on her feelings. That this will take time to overcome, and that he can’t expect her to simply move on now. In feeling messages, of course. Apart from the point about the “fashion show”, that he has tto trsut her judgment, she should also, playfully or humorously, come up with the idea that he should pay a symbolic price for her decoration efforts. Maybe a book, DVDs or CDs from Amazon or something like that. Just as a test balloon to see how he reacts on the news that her services don’t come from free. If he’s totally shocked that she wouldn’t work hours at his place just “for love” then that should be a red flag!
    Just my two cent…

  222.  #222Femininepower on April 30, 2011 at 8:34 am

    Guys expect to pay for love?

  223.  #223Amazing Me on April 30, 2011 at 8:38 am

    Yes so true and I am going to tell him to trust me what I will wear will be beautiful and to take it or leave it…he doesn’t like it well another date will have to do!! Thanks guys oh he ain’t getting this milk for free he ius gonna have to buy the whole heffer!! LMAO

  224.  #224Lilybelle on April 30, 2011 at 8:43 am


    We ALWAYS have a choice to accept advice or reject it.

    Simple as that.


  225.  #225LD on April 30, 2011 at 8:45 am


    “what’s in it for the girl?”

    Exactly! It always cracked me up when I was online dating and these much older, unattractive men would “invite” me to come to their towns for “no strings sex” and sincerely think they were making me a good offer! Probably because that’s the kind of offer THEY would like to have from a woman.

    But from MY standpoint, if ALL I was looking for was no strings sex, I could walk into the sports bar down the street from my house and choose from several extremely hot 25 year olds for that. Alot less effort and more satisfaction for me.

    Before I became exclusive with D, I made it clear that I was looking for a serious relationship leading to marriage. It never ceased to amaze me how many men I met online knew that, yet still offered me casual, no strings sex and seemed to truly think it was a good offer and seemed surprised I didn’t agree with them.

  226.  #226Lily T. on April 30, 2011 at 8:48 am

    That was amusing to read LD. Thanks for laugh. 🙂

  227.  #227The Lurker on April 30, 2011 at 8:49 am

    #218 Amazing, he can be a great guy but still a bit clueless about how to act in a relationship! If that’s the case, you should take extra care to lovingly put him onto the right track. If you fall over yourself with helping him at this point now, where shall this lead to in a relationship? Yes, show him the boundaries and gently push him into the male role you want to see from him. With the experiences from the last time in mind, you both should be able to avoid traps and mistakes.

    Just don’t haste it, it has to be give and take. With you being the yummy pie who rewards her guy with her female presence. Not being the willing servant who jumps at his ideas! Show him he has a place in your heart, but also that he has to do something to expand this. FP is right, of course, when all is said and done, it’s still your intuition that counts. Just be careful you don’t get carried away.
    All the best for this revival!

  228.  #228LD on April 30, 2011 at 8:54 am


    If you are looking to “help” him, even as a friend, you are operating from masculine energy mode and it won’t bring him closer to you in the long run, only push him away again. Trust me, I’ve lived this. I held the gold medal in the overfunctioning olympics.

    Maculine energy is giving and doing, feminine energy is receiving. Stay in your feminine energy and let him come to you.

  229.  #229Lilybelle on April 30, 2011 at 8:55 am


    “Before I became exclusive with D, I made it clear that I was looking for a serious relationship leading to marriage. It never ceased to amaze me how many men I met online knew that, yet still offered me casual, no strings sex and seemed to truly think it was a good offer and seemed surprised I didn’t agree with them.”

    Ditto. I’ve even been told “you still have needs.”

    Well, yes, I do and my needs are being met quite well, thank you very much. 😉


  230.  #230The Lurker on April 30, 2011 at 9:00 am

    #224 Yes, Lil, of course! But sometimes bad advice may look quite compelling at first sight. I know I’m able to make convincing points most of the time. Still, some of them can be wrong. So, when I’m unsure, I prefer to state this, so that folks not solely rely on me but get a second and maybe third opinion, too, before making a decision.

  231.  #231Amazing Me on April 30, 2011 at 9:01 am

    Yes Feminine I will remain and he initiated all this contact so like I said he has to work for my attention and love. He needs to “WIN’ my affection like it once was but I refuse to be one way being the giver this is an equal thing and I wont take the lead, he is going to have to step up and so far he is but lets see how loud his actions speak I keep you up to date 🙂 Thank You!!!

  232.  #232The Lurker on April 30, 2011 at 9:02 am

    #228 Right, LD! Wow, you Sirens are really well versed with Rori’s writings. I remember reading about the female/masculine energy issue here, it just didn’t come to my mind now. But it makes a lot of sense in that context. Good point!

  233.  #233LD on April 30, 2011 at 9:04 am


    The difference in my relationship with D from my past relationships is that in this one I’m completely in feminine energy and he’s in masculine. That makes both of us more relaxed because that’s what feels natural. He LIKES taking care of things for me-it feeds his masculine energy. And I like being able to be the soft female I am and be taken care of.

    D told me once the only thing I HAVE to do is just show up and let him take care of the rest. I love feeling cared for and protected and taken care of like that! And his masculinity is such a turn on too!

    If you feel good about “helping” armyguy and therefore playing a more masculine energy role, that’s fine for you and your choice. But remember, how you establish it now is how it will likely remain. So ask yourself if you’d be happy always being the one to go to him and always being the one to help him. Being a female in masculine energy means you have to get all of your satisfaction and pleasure from GIVING. If you can do that, go for it! Some women are such nurturers that they can row the relationship boat and be perfectly happy that way. Just don’t expect to have your feminine receiving energy nourished, because a man in feminine energy receiving mode is not going to be very good at doing that for you.

    Wishing you the best!

  234.  #234Lilybelle on April 30, 2011 at 9:05 am


    There typically are second and third opinions around the island. For me, it is ALL appreciated and I noodle on each and figure out how it applies to my situation.

    I certianly would never come back and say “OH Mysterious Onnneee…the advice you gave me sucked and totally backfired on me so now I hold you responsible for my actions.” Or to anyone else for that matter. I am the ultimate chooser of my actions..

    I don’t think chooser is a word but I like it.


  235.  #235The Lurker on April 30, 2011 at 9:05 am

    #231 Good luck, Amazing! Just one last point: Of course, his “fashion show” idea also shows he’s very much into you! Your Yummy Pie qualities seem to have left an impact. So, that’s a good sign!

  236.  #236Femininepower on April 30, 2011 at 9:07 am

    Lilybelle you rock.

  237.  #237The Lurker on April 30, 2011 at 9:10 am

    #234 Thank you, Lil! Yes, I believe you, you wouldn’t come here and complain that my advice sucked. That’s what lawyers are for!
    Only joking, girl. And I like “chooser”. Indeed, be a chooser, not a chaser! Great motto.

  238.  #238Lilybelle on April 30, 2011 at 9:11 am


    FP, I think you rock! Thank you!


  239.  #239LD on April 30, 2011 at 9:13 am


    yep, we all choose our own course of action. Our purpose here is not to make anyone do anything they don’t want to do, but just to give them enough information so that if they make the wrong choice, they can accept the consequences.

    If I go out with my friends and they see me drinking several shots when they know I don’t handle alcohol very well, I’d expect them to give me advice like “if you continue to drink, you’re gonna feel bad tomorrow.” I can choose to listen to them, but if I don’t and I continue drinking instead and wake up the next day with a hangover, it’s a decision I made even after being given advice not to.

    We’ve certainly all been there in some way, haven’t we?

  240.  #240The Lurker on April 30, 2011 at 9:15 am

    All you Sirens rock! And if I rock a little, too, maybe the boat will capsize and we’ll all go swimming. Yay wet t-shirt day!
    Sry, girls, just having my funny hour now.

  241.  #241Femininepower on April 30, 2011 at 9:21 am

    RE 240 Lurker I love this part of your personality. Wish you would fully embrace it and bring it forward more often. Especially in your real life. I know I know; I am not your therapist. Couldn’t help it.

  242.  #242Queenbee on April 30, 2011 at 9:28 am

    RE: 155 – Hi Lurker, I’ve figured it out – you’re French! OMG! I don’t know how I feel about this – lol!

    I’ve been feeling turned on by your vibe lately and love having you on here. 159+ is a real turn on for me. What’s all this vulnerability? But nice… I feel good reading.

    You mentioned in some post that you have the ‘feminine’ quality. But I love this! Definitely works for me when a man has that gentlemanly quality – that’s what your words and vibe feel like to me.

    I do get on with guys who are softer and more caring. It leaves room for my larger-than-life personality and also quiet-retreat-into-my-own-world self. Then it’s really quiet and intimate and yummy with a man when I’m there. 🙂

    I felt triggered wondering why you had to reveal your location. And I feel okay with you not revealing… especially coz your vibe’s been turning me on. 🙂 🙂 But now that you mentioned… I don’t know what to think…

    I’ve dated French men – not good for me. But at least I learned how to make crepe flambee, which was way cool.

    But you don’t have that French vibe and your English is amazingly good for what I have experienced with some French people….mmmh??


  243.  #243The Lurker on April 30, 2011 at 9:28 am

    #241 Thank you, FP! And it’s good you’re not my therapist, that would be counterproductive. I wouldn’t be able to concentrate very well in the presence of a Yummy Pie Siren!
    Ok, I’ll be away a bit now. To take a look at real life and show the smile that’s on my face from joking with you girls. See you later!

  244.  #244Lilybelle on April 30, 2011 at 9:38 am


    Yep, that’s what I’m saying.
    Simple as that.


  245.  #245The Lurker on April 30, 2011 at 9:41 am

    #242 Vraiement? Tu pense que je suis un citoyen de la grande nation? Oh la la! Qui, j’aime le savoire vivre, et le vin aussi, mais, malheureusement, je ne suis pas francais! Je regrette, chère reinne d’abeilles.

    Well, excuse my french, it’s probably full of typos and missing “accents”. No, I’m not french, even though I like the people and the country. Just as a hint: Look at the stereotypes I mentioned in #170 (which, of course, don’t describe me, that was ironic). Hmm, do you think the French are seen as boring, without humor, and aggressive? Not really, right? So, what other nation may be seen that way? Next guess?
    A bientot, ma belle reine!

  246.  #246Lily T. on April 30, 2011 at 9:46 am

    # 234 Lilybelle,
    Likin’ the word “chooser”. May not be in Webster’s (yet), but it fits. Fits well.

    #239 LD
    Like the word “chooser”, your analogy about taking/ignoring advice and hangovers 🙂 fits too.

    Earlier this morning I considered if Lurker might be in France, given his “clues”- feeling too insecure to mention it. Enjoying Qbee guessing. 🙂

    Good vibe today Sirens. What do you think?

  247.  #247tinque on April 30, 2011 at 9:49 am

    Vous parler francais tres bien. je ne sais pas ou sont les accents, alors pardonnez-moi s’il vous plait.

    Je savais que vous n’etes pas francais. J’ai deviner votre nationalite et je vais garde votre secret.

    J’espere que vous passez un bon weekend Monsieur Grenouillle. bdr (lol)


  248.  #248tinque on April 30, 2011 at 9:50 am

    I prefer the word chooserer which K an I use all the time.


  249.  #249Laughing Goddess on April 30, 2011 at 9:51 am

    German? 😉

  250.  #250Lily T. on April 30, 2011 at 9:59 am

    Anyone care to translate the French to English?

  251.  #251Queenbee on April 30, 2011 at 10:01 am

    RE: 245 – LOL! I’m done guessing 🙂 It’s a sure foot in mouth situation to keep mentioning different nationalities re. 170 – I’m staying away from this bait 🙂

    … though I would say you don’t need to ‘improve’ your English – so it could only be one place that fits your description – LOL!! I can’t stay away from a challenge… or you’d be Scandinavian…

    Ok, I’m done now 🙂

    I will just bribe Tinque to tell 🙂

    ‘Monsieur Grenouille’ – lol! 🙂


  252.  #252SummerBaby on April 30, 2011 at 10:02 am

    I came within a hairs width of breaking it off with the man I am seeing. He unintentionally did something that upset me, but it turned out to be a trigger of an intense amount of hurt left over from my ex.

    We talked it through and I let him know that I knew I was overly upset out of proportion to the incident, and that I felt bad he was suffering worse because of my past. He took it really well and apologized and vowed to pay closer attention to something that obviously hurt me very deeply.

    I was amazed at the intensity of the hurt I felt. It’s been 7 years since I left my ex, but it was like it was 7 minutes ago with the wound that opened.

    I hope to process more of this hurt and deal with it. I want to heal. I ended up walking 5 miles I didn’t need to walk, I could have asked for a ride.

    This being open about feelings with men is a bigger challenge when you realize you’ve rarely been open with your feelings to yourself. I guess this is a good thing I’m noticing, and I certainly hope to continue to grow from it.

    The surprising thing for me was realizing that while I already know I love this man in my life, I was completely ready to toss everything out because of how bad I felt in that moment.

    I was telling LD it’s like there’s a tornado inside me of horrible feelings, and I had all I could do to separate past from present and not turn into the tasmanian devil. Today I did tell him honestly how close I came to throwing it all away.

    Amazingly enough, I was able to communicate even at my angriest and most pained, without yelling or screaming or swearing. I just stated what I was feeling and that some of it was confusing and that I didn’t know what to do.

    I’m worn out today and still in the middle of a massive change requiring all my energy. Here’s to growth.

    Meemee, I’m thrilled you got the money. I remember being upset he hadn’t paid you, so I spent some minutes visualizing reading a post from you that you had your money and could move on. Then I sent you love and hugs. So it felt great reading that my visualization came true.

    Lisi, so good to see you again… I’ve missed your posts and thought of you often.

    Kaitlyn, I think some of the stuff you wrote about Adam, he’s just incapable of being the kind of man you deserve and I totally agreed with your BFF’s POV.
    Hugs to you honey. There’s millions of guys out there. There’s bound to be a better fit than Adam that would rock your world AND get you and treat you how you deserve.

    Jim, saw your post on last thread. I wish you all the best of success with your lady friend. It’s great that you want to help her heal. Maybe I will find the same with my guy now.

    Lurker, how about Frog Prince for your new blog name?

    Okay, I’m done gotta get back to work. Wish I could blog at work tonight, but no connection there. I’ll try to catch up tomorrow.

    Hugs to all,

  253.  #253Queenbee on April 30, 2011 at 10:07 am

    RE: 250 – Lily T. Tinque says to Lurker: ‘you speak French very well. I don’t know where are the accents, so please excuse me. I knew you were not French. I’ve figured out your nationality and your secret is safe. I wish you a good weekend Mr. Frog” – LOL!


  254.  #254Brenda on April 30, 2011 at 10:08 am

    My spirit feels grieved when I see God’s absolutes being disregarded and discounted. I feel sad at the chaos in this world as a result of the departure from Biblical principles.

    I feel powerless to bring it to people’s attention that so many of the heartaches discussed on this blog would have been avoided altogether if sex had been within the protection of the commitment of marriage.

    I feel awed at the holiness and sanctity of marriage, and I feel grieved when it is thrown away as outdated, even tho I accept everyone exactly as they are, because I am not the judge: God is.

  255.  #255tinque on April 30, 2011 at 10:10 am

    Lily T – All I said was that he speaks french very well and I apologized for not knowing where to find the accents (on the computer). I know that he’s not french and have guessed where he’s from, but his secret is safe with me. I called him Mr. Frog, not in reference to the nationality but to the photo. Oh and that he has a nice weekend.


  256.  #256Queenbee on April 30, 2011 at 10:10 am

    #251 – I’m not saying that Scandinavian people fit the description in 170. Quite the opposite, I’m commenting on the gentlemanly-ness of your (Lurker’s) vibe. That’s been my experience with Scandinavian people.


  257.  #257SummerBaby on April 30, 2011 at 10:13 am

    Okay one more thing…

    The other night at work at the bar, one of the male patrons said to me after a lengthy exchange…

    “you know you can let your guard down once in a while. not everyone is out to screw with you.” He wasn’t referring to sex, but referring to how I reacted to a question he asked.

    Makes me wonder just how prickly I come off sometimes. When I am open and vulnerable, I’m often the object of ridicule because of my trusting nature. I get upset when people laugh and say you’re so gullible. So when I’m cautious and skeptical, I find that men wonder why I’m so guarded.

    Is there no middle ground to be found?

    *gulping deep breaths and trying to relax my shoulders*

    Now I’m off for real.


  258.  #258Lily T. on April 30, 2011 at 10:14 am

    Thank you Queenbee & Tinque. My lont ago high school French wasn’t up to the task. I did look up “Monsieur Grenouille” on the net. Creepy story worthy of Stephen King. Interesting day today here, no? 🙂

  259.  #259Amazing Me on April 30, 2011 at 10:15 am

    I love all you sirens so much, your advice inspires me to be strong and not to take less than I deserve! The strength I feel going into this is better especially that I am not attached to an outcome. He is not my man, he is my friend for now. Last time I offered to help him before he went overseas, I went there and he wouldn’t let me do anything, he said, “just sit there and look pretty like you always do”….so this time who knows, but I give with no intention to receive and thats just who I am. I am a nurse we help people, just learning to not get taken advantage of….baby steps…So I will report back!! THANK YOU!!

  260.  #260tinque on April 30, 2011 at 10:22 am

    You know what Summerbaby? Keep your vulnerability and gullibility. I am SO gullible. K gets me almost every time. It amuses him greatly, and I don’t mind at all because it IS amusing and because he never acts maliciously. It’s all in fun. I can laugh at myself about this too.

    Someone will find this wonderfully endearing about you as K does about me. It’s a great quality to have.

  261.  #261Queenbee on April 30, 2011 at 10:29 am

    Got to workout now before it gets too late. Siren Island feels so light and positive today 🙂

    Tomorrow is my CD with men at the party where there will be other people.

    There is such a cool and creative vibe in that apt. The man lived in Japan for a long time (also married a Japanese lady) so he has all the inspired art and music and a totally different feng shui going on….

    So I’m meeting them and his cousin tomorrow (who is the unspoken ‘man-cd’). And it will be fun… I’m practicing leaning back 🙂

    I’ve not even started my beautification… been in studio for a couple days… caught myself in the mirror and I was like .. oh boy.

    I still look amazing though… just the bits and pieces 🙂

    I got MAJOR compliments yesterday when I went to meet my client. So I know I look good… just need Daria energy to get all my beautification done… and then thank myself on Siren Island. 🙂

    I’m working out in 10 minutes…


  262.  #262Jackie on April 30, 2011 at 10:53 am

    As a ussualy quiet anti royalist, socialist Brit, I feel I have to say, we here are all happy to have an extra day off to enjoy as we wish, great move, who wouldnt want a long weekend. It feels strange to me that I have to comment, but, yes the princess were born into privlalege,( Im dylexic) but, having watched and listened I admire the fact they want to serve thier country and I mean through charities, through helping the under privaliged. One of them has served in Afganistan ( agree wth the war or not) he insisted on putting his life on the line the same as other men in this country have. William’s job is a search and rescue helicopter pilot, yes glamourous in a way but, people who work with them genuinly like them. Kate as a middle class women, not aristoricy but not you ordinary lass, when people said how lucky she was was to have William was able to say, yes but hes quite lucky to have me too, and believe it, and so it seems does he! So Im happy to celabrate the happiness of two people and the guts of a woman who was able to believe in herself, her family and win the commitment and love of a man, who had endless choice

  263.  #263TORN :(( on April 30, 2011 at 11:11 am


    I met the man of my dreams 3 months ago. I was the girl of his dreams too and things were magic, blissful, amazing intense…….when we weren’t fighting over his ex girlfriend, that is.

    They are best friends. Dated for 2 years but the relationship was sexless after 3 months. It’s been two years since she moved out, but I just found out that they were only apart for 2 weeks before resuming being best friends and hanging out 3 or 4 times a week…! Does anyone not agree that they never broke up? Only thing different is not having sex or living together.

    His seeing her never cut into my time with him. He told me often he cancelled plans with her for me, but I was bothered that they had such frequent plans at all!

    Then, I would call him, he would be his normal self on the phone but would be “oh, having lunch with HER” (don’t even want to type her name, I hear it enough). Any time we were apart and I called him, it seemed he was “helping HER shop for a spring coat”, “on my way to pick HER up to drive her home”, “fixing HER car”.

    I have seen them interact, have met her, he and I have gone on a few double dates with her and a guy she was seeing (they broke up, unsurprisingly). I know there is nothing sexual there, but I told him it’s inappropriate to be hanging out with his ex more often than me and being at her apartment late at night “comforting” her. She has social anxiety, depression, family issues, you name it.

    At the beginning of our relationship, he adamantly refused to alter his relationship with her in any way because he didn’t want to “desert” her. Apparently she helped him through a tough time in his life. We broke up and got back together several times over this.

    Now after three months, I sent her an email a few days ago telling her that if she truly wants him to be happy, they need to loosen up, letting her know our breakup is not her fault as he makes his own decisions, wishing her the best with her family and telling her I hope they figure things out with each other before either of them hurts someone else again.

    I sent him an email telling him it was over and why. All this time he had me convinced that I was being old fashioned, jealous and unreasonable in requesting that he not have late night one on ones and spend the majority of his week with his ex.

    Next thing I know, he is begging for me back. Telling me she said she’d back off, admitted that she was codependent on him and that he felt guilty and responsible for her, and that she said it was sad because I made him so happy.

    He admitted that I was right all along and he couldn’t believe how blind and in denial he was.

    He told me he wants me to be his number one and will do what it takes to change it, including hanging out with her much less than before.

    He said he doesn’t want to lose me because of her. He didn’t realize what he was doing before but now he does and will set it right.

    I said if he want to change and is willing to do it, not for me, but for himself, I will. He said yes, he’s wanted out for a while and didn’t know how.

    I told him talk is cheap and when he has accomplished this, we’ll get back together.

    He doesn’t have many friends (she has none) and says if I leave him, it will make it too hard for him to hang out with her less. He also doesn’t know what to do because he thinks something bad will happen to her if he “breaks up” with her.

    I believe his conviction and I the good has outweighed the bad in this relationship. I still want him.

    What should I do???????!!!

    He admits to me that she will probably be sad for the rest of her life and that he feels responsible for her happiness…… Am I the only one who sees what those two statements add up to…??

  264.  #264Lily T. on April 30, 2011 at 11:23 am

    That was good Jackie #262. Thank you for sharing a point of view from someone who was actually effected by the decisions of the British government.

  265.  #265Lily T. on April 30, 2011 at 11:33 am

    #263 Torn,

    Have you considered leaning back, waaay back, and seeing if his actions start matching up with his words? That is, he starts extricating himself from this co-dependent relationship and focusing on YOU and the relationship he claims he wants to have with you?

    You’ve only been dating him 3 months and you’ve already broken up several times…when you weren’t arguing about his involvement with her. He sounds emotionally unavailable to me – have you done any “inner work” to determine why you want to hold onto someone like this?

  266.  #266Sloane on April 30, 2011 at 11:54 am

    I feel unworthy and easily forgettable. It is not a good feeling. After a night with my friend, I took a chance and said I was not working tonight.. as he usually asks or is open to me telling him, as I work a lot. Anyhow.. it went over like a fart in space..lol.. I felt my feelings of sadness and reject.. The question is how can we lean wayyy back and still feel the pain and try to do every exercise we have been taught and still feel sadness. I feel like today I just need to take care of myself and make plans for this evening even if I date myself! … So any input would be great.. leaning back.. how do we do it when so much of our heart is invested in someone we care about??

  267.  #267Daria on April 30, 2011 at 12:21 pm

    Ohhh I just woke up…. From this turned on dream…

    I dreamt Neighborman offered me 60 dollars to have sex w him. Which felt really fun as s game to me…

    So then we were in some kind of school and I was eager we find some empty room to start


    I was excited he actully did have the money and we were going to… I also felt very warm and good

    – previous parts of the dream I was hanging out And then in bed w Chris Brown, but I didn’t want to have sex w him, I also felt a lil insecure w him, noticed I was trying to impress a lil –

    Then I woke up wout u’s having sex yet

    But I was very excited.

    Neighborman and I have a history

  268.  #268Lucy on April 30, 2011 at 12:29 pm

    Lurker, Love your gravatar! 🙂 Thanks for your analysis of the cohabitation article – good job! The other thing I noticed was that he said the researchers adjusted the data for co-contributing factors (like the ones Lily mentioned – religious beliefs, etc. …bc correlation does not imply causation), but he conveniently left out what the resulting percentage was. My guess is that it was significantly lower and reporting it would have greatly diminished his intended argument. Also, there are other

  269.  #269Lucy on April 30, 2011 at 12:33 pm

    other co-contributing factors that were not included in their adjustment. I’m sure the author meant well, and truly wants to help people – but misuse of research is one of my pet peeves bc people generally don’t question its validity.

  270.  #270TORN :(( on April 30, 2011 at 12:37 pm


    Hi Lily T

    Thanks for answering. Those are good questions.

    I hate that I like him so much. He has SOO many issues. Oh, and he admitted that he felt he hadn’t been emotionally available to me because of being so focussed on being worried about her. He and I just feel right together in a way I haven’t with anyone ever before.

    I just wish she would disappear. Even if he does leave her, he’ll be worried about her all the time. She knows and will likely exploit that too. She is so disgustingly selfish.

    He’s not even 30 and his life is looking like so much of a tragedy. All he ever wanted was love.

    He went out of town for a few days after the night that we had that huge talk where he admitted everything and expressed his desire to change.

    I am going to lean back and see what happens when he returns but for sure, emotionally speaking, I’ve got my bags waiting by the door…..

  271.  #271Daria on April 30, 2011 at 12:43 pm

    Sloane – yes, I still feel down… The difference now is I’m aware of what’s happening, and that it will pass. If I’m able to sink into the feeling, and use Stop Sign tool to stop looping thoughts, it can pass quickly

  272.  #272Sloane on April 30, 2011 at 12:48 pm

    ook. Well I accepted a date for tonight.. it is so hard to take a date when I would rather wait and hopefully hear from my friend or take my self out.. but that’s all leaning forward.. so I will go out on this date. Weird.. I am not really into the Cd thing as I feel it is not fair to the man I am seeing… But I need to feel it’s ok to be treated well and go for it..

  273.  #273Lucy on April 30, 2011 at 1:01 pm

    Jackie – Hi! Thanks for your great comment! <3 Lucy

  274.  #274Daria on April 30, 2011 at 1:11 pm

    Sloane – awesome job taking care of yourself by accepting a date – even in the face of all those NV’s!

    Now in order to be a CD, the intent has to be to practice tools.

    What tools are you planning to practice on the date?

    I would definitely practice feeling messages, leaning back physically… And… This was something I practiced a lot to get used to… Being ok w silence, letting him take the lead.

    Not saying anything except to respond, and then w a feeling message

  275.  #275Daria on April 30, 2011 at 1:15 pm

    I am reading ‘the Hidden Reality’ by Brian Greene about parallel universes from a physicist standpoint…

    And I just got hit about how we Learn, math.

    Like we Learn that 2 + 2 = 4, but really, so often it doesn’t!

    Ex 2 males + 2 females = infinite people

    Or no people after awhile,,,

    This felt amazing to notice because I feel all into the magic and possibility

  276.  #276Queenbee on April 30, 2011 at 1:15 pm

    That’s it – being treated WELL – for CDing that is.

    I need to remind myself of this.


  277.  #277SummerBaby on April 30, 2011 at 1:16 pm


    you can FB me if you like. email me at summerbabychica@yahoo.com and I will give you my name. You can FB LD through me as well. And several others.

    hugs, summerbaby

  278.  #278TxMsPretty on April 30, 2011 at 1:16 pm

    I need quick advice. Is this where i ask?

    What does it mean when a guy offers to help with business ventures, then the next day calls and says “before u make your decision, let me tell u about the economy. By the way, Im leaving the country when the economy dips.”
    Yes we are imaginary dating. Meaning he is not all the way in my life.

    My mouth DROPPED wide open. ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm…… Is it ME or is he telling me
    #1. I was in the moment. I think i changed my mind about helping u.
    #2. Im leaving the country. I wont be around.


    I have a feeling of what the answer is, but someone confirm if you FEEL me on this.

    I just asked him “what do u suggest”

    i feel REALLY crazy right now. REAL crazy. But i want to get over it and move forward.

    Suggestions please. And lets laugh.


  279.  #279TxMsPretty on April 30, 2011 at 1:17 pm

    Im so TURNED off right now.

  280.  #280TxMsPretty on April 30, 2011 at 1:21 pm

    This is what i thought when he told me this, i may be wrong and thinking too hard, but this is crazy.

    I was thinking. Ok. He changed his mind & he is about to get married. Basically disappear.

    My ex, used to say the same thing about my business ventures, complaining about the economy. Said the same thing about “dont make any committments. and DO NOT ACCUMILATE ANY MORE DEBT. Such as a house, etc.”
    These words are EXACTLY what my ex told me. And he DIPPPPPPED!!!!


  281.  #281Daria on April 30, 2011 at 1:26 pm

    Maria – suggestions.

    Vampire scream your anger. Do you know this tool? The key for me is to let it come from a deeper and deeper place inside me as my breath runs out.

    Usually it will cone from an ever deeper place vagina womb… At the end… Deeper than my current trigger which is usually around my solar plexus.

    Vampire screaming is when you open your mout to scream, and your scream destroys everything you want, whole forests, bring up arms and wave them wildly as you spew your rage….

    Only thing is, it’s silent, don’t actually scream Outloud, just
    the energy.

    After I feel emptied and limp of the heat and rage and kind of blank and flat.

  282.  #282Daria on April 30, 2011 at 1:28 pm

    As far as him I would reply:

    Whoa I feel weird… I don’t want imput that feels discouraging, but would be open to help… And I feel shocked to hear you’re leaving… Actually I feel sad and kinda abandoned and unimportant to hear that

  283.  #283SummerBaby on April 30, 2011 at 1:29 pm


    From where I sit, he’s telling you you cannot place any value in any offers he makes. He’s not going to be around for you in any supportive way.

    Look elsewhere for entrepreneurial support. I wouldn’t bother with him as relationship material either.



    Okay gotta go to second job. I’m out for at least 8 hours.

  284.  #284The Lurker on April 30, 2011 at 1:30 pm

    #247 Merci beaucoup, Mademoiselle Tinque! Tu est tres genereux. Et votre beauté enchantes mon coeur.

    #249 Shhhhh, Goddess! Streng geheim!

    #267 Daria, 60 bucks? Isn’t that WAY too cheap for a goddess like you? I guess I’ll dream of exchanging Euros into greenbacks tonight…

    268 Lucy, if I remember it correctly, only the second study (not the first one about the swedes) “normalized” the data. To me it looks a bit as if Harley cherrypicked the best data he could find to make his point. And I’m not against marriage at all, but imho advicers should present a very good case, based on an objective judgment of the facts, when telling folls they should jump into marriage without any previous “training” at all.

    And thank you for your compliment for my avatar. I feel tempted to ask you for a kiss now, but I’m certain you would turn your head away at the very last second. Just like you always let Charlie Brown’s football disappear!

  285.  #285Ella on April 30, 2011 at 1:35 pm

    Hello Lovely Sirens,

    Well I moved house to my new place and we had a huge moving in BBQ/Party. Loads of people came including the guy I like who I blogged about last weekend.

    The one whose house I left while he was asleep…

    We haven’t had contact since then and he came to the BBQ at my house (my flatmates invited him, they are friends with him – same social group).

    So he was totally fine with me and me with him. I wasn’t even sure if he was coming or not and I had already decided just to enjoy my night regardless of who showed up.

    And I felt fine too.

    So as the night went on he started kinda hanging around me, giving me attention, and especially when another guy was showing me attention.

    He sorta stepped in and claimed me. Which actually felt quite nice.

    So the party went on pretty much all night and he and I ended up being the last ones in my room talking and listening to music.

    Then we just crashed on my bed.

    So I did not do well with the plan about not cuddling with him etc until he asked me out.

    And I am not too sure how I feel about that anyway as it feels too much like wanting something from him. Kinda trying for an outcome, I don’t want to do that!

    Anyway the difference was that this time we were at my house, which is easy for me, and he was much more sobre and didn’t snore. Lol.

    So we were cuddling. As usual he was being a bit sexual and I was kinda fighting him off (in a good way).

    And I know that is my own fault for allowing him to stay in my room with me.

    So in the morning he became quite thoughtful and he told me that he really likes me. I said I like him too.

    He said it a couple of times.

    Then he asked what we were doing (ie dating/relationship etc). At this point I teased him a bit and said we were lying in bed.

    And he said ‘and after that?’ and I teased more and said then it will be Saturday.

    I didn’t really want to get into the no g,friend speech at this point when he hasn’t even taken me out.

    Also I kinda want him to work a little bit hard to make up for the fact that I have been back to his house a couple of times.

    Well then I said I felt weird because I like him and so far it is just about cuddling and kissing after the pub etc, and that a real date would feel nice (not sure if this is lean forward or not?)

    So he said he could take me somewhere. Then he joked that he would take me to our local pub! Hmph! Pouty face!

    Then he offered to put up some shelves for me once I get the bolts! Random!

    So then I decided to get up (mainly because I was starting to get annoyed with the sexual advances, and I did express that I was beginning to feel cross).

    So we got up and joined the others.

    And as soon as we joined the others he started treating me completely as a friend… and paid me very little attention.

    I felt needy and kinda a chasing vibe, although I was not actually chasing.

    A lot like one of the recent e-mails Rori sent about when we are looking to him to fill us up with love.

    So a group of us spent the day at a park, and I was trying hard to just relax and enjoy myself, and it kinda still bothered me that he wasn’t being so attentive.

    And I ended up chatting with and having a right giggle with another guy in the group and we were kinda laughing and chatting and flirting. It was fun.

    And I noticed my guy couldn’t stop looking but still didn’t do anything.

    So after a while (well a good few hours) I began to feel tired and disconnected from everyone, esp my man. The other guy had gone off to fly a kite and I suddenly felt quite alone and a bit of a spare part.

    I had a lot of NVs in my head and was feeling a funny vibe.

    So I decided the best way to take care of me was to bring me home.

    So I jus got up, called out a group goodbye.

    My guy looked at me and said ‘so you are off?’ and I said yes and then left.

    So there we are, not really a whole lot of stepping up happening as yet however I still feel ok.

    Oh and And there was no further mention of a date or the shelves or anything else.

    I felt a lil disappointed, my heart always flutters when guys whisper sweet nothings to me, lol and also I feel ok because I know I am not looking for a b,friend…

    And it is good when men show you who they are.

    And I still felt a bit needy at times and ‘wanting’.

    About him I think he may be showing me that what he does is drinks a lot of beer with his friends and prioritises ‘the lads’ which is fine… he is just doing what he does, and that is maybe not something that feels so good to me.

    And I will still accept his bows and arrows anyway.

    But not wanting to accept crumbs.

    I am feeling my way through this. This is all part of my process and my practice. And I love that I get so many chances to practice.

    I think there is some underlying belief or fear about not getting what I want, because I like being held and cuddled and I guess I don’t know if I will get that if I don’t get it this way…
    So maybe that is something that needs looking at.

    Right how can I turn this situation round so that I feel really, really good?

    Well firstly I am the fountain of love and I can top up myself.

    I think I need to be brave and take the step of not allowing him to come home with me or go home with him from a casual date.

    I want to take this next step, and I feel afraid.

    I don’t really know why.

    I know I won’t accept relationship crumbs from this guy.

    I guess it is something about being strong enough to just come home on my own from the pub, and that my life is enough.

    I feel worried about missing out on afterparties, and to be honest that might not be a bad thing for a couple of times, even just until I have broken this pattern.

    So I think my next step is to go to the pub when I want to, top Siren vibe on, have a great night, see my guy, leanback, flirt, be open AND most importantly then just leave, reasonably early, and come home, on my own!

    I would like to do this a few times.

    If he should ask me anything I will simply say something to the affect of It feels great spending time with him and I would love to do so on a date, rather than just after the pub which feels uncomfortable.

    Can anyone help with a script for this one?

    Then I can see how I feel.

    Make some space for him to step up if he wants to.

    His choice if he wants to step up or not and I will feel good and confident and high self esteem.

    Those are my next babysteps.

  286.  #286Sloane on April 30, 2011 at 1:36 pm

    OK the tools you mentioned are about all I know.. so I will do them..I feel sad right now .. ugh! Part of what happened this morning was the first time I felt just insecure sexually.. my body was a bit off.. and I felt self conscious.. so It was in the air.. until I mentioned it.. I never feel insecure.. but I did.. so all my actions after that were to feed self esteem. So especially now.. I need to to use the STOP technique and not entertain feelings that make me feel bad or insecure and thinking that his coldness or detachment was my fault. So with that said.. I will enjoy my evening and let it all go.

  287.  #287TxMsPretty on April 30, 2011 at 1:36 pm

    uh uh uhhhhhhhhhhh *shaking head*

    tooooooooooo funny! All i have to say is LISTEN TO YOUR INTUITION & LISTEN TO RORI RAYE ADVICE!

  288.  #288Daria on April 30, 2011 at 1:44 pm

    Lurker – lol thanks… (wow Feelin a lil triggered too thinking of how much to pay for me… I don’t hoe so I guess priceless works for me now)

    I have this fantasy but it usually doesn’t involve getting paid too much it’s like 5 bucks or something nominal.

  289.  #289Ella on April 30, 2011 at 1:50 pm


    Re 287,

    is this aimed at me?

    I feel quite angry.

    I do listen to my intuition and to Rori advice.

  290.  #290Lily T. on April 30, 2011 at 1:52 pm

    I’m curious as to what your take is on Ella’s #285. Why isn’t this bloke asking her out on a real date?

  291.  #291Daria on April 30, 2011 at 1:52 pm

    Ella – excellent! I love it all, especially how you said a date would be nice, and leaving the group to go home… Soo well done!

  292.  #292Ella on April 30, 2011 at 1:54 pm


    Thank you!



  293.  #293Queenbee on April 30, 2011 at 1:58 pm

    Lurker!!!!!! 🙂 How did I not guess!!!!?????? AAHHHH… Feel so good now…. 🙂

    Omg, I actually have loads of fun experiences with people from your neck of the woods. Very cool…

    HotAmazing man was just in your locale.

    I wonder how Tinque could guess? Such amazing intuition … love her!!!


  294.  #294Daria on April 30, 2011 at 2:01 pm

    It’s I… * Daria-Lurker * – he’s not asking because he’s not familiar with dating that way, but rather casual group hang outs.

    He is ‘clueless’

    If Ella holds to her boundary he may step up.

    I often have to be clear with men I expect real dates and often they don’t know exactly what that would be.

    I would consider other cuddling , time together as flirting

  295.  #295Daria on April 30, 2011 at 2:03 pm

    Sloane – hugs! Try doing some riffing.. It helps the ferlings be felt and change

  296.  #296Lily T. on April 30, 2011 at 2:05 pm

    #294 LOL Daria-Lurker!
    See I was thinking the same thing as you. But then I wondered if it could be this guy was angling for more of a FWB situation with Ella- rather than just uncomfortable taking her out one on one.??

  297.  #297Sloane on April 30, 2011 at 2:05 pm

    Riffing? sorry, I don’t know what that is.. 🙁
    But thank you

  298.  #298Ella on April 30, 2011 at 2:08 pm

    Lily T

    Yes I agree with Daria.

    And also because thus far he has not had to, he has been lucky enough to be able to access me without asking me on a real date!

    Also there is not really so much of a dating culture here, and esp within that group.

    But these are all just reasons and mean nothing really.

    If he really does want me he will figure it out, otherwise he is merely good practice and, oh, ahem…. Next!


  299.  #299TxMsPretty on April 30, 2011 at 2:10 pm

    Ella, not at all. I was still thinking about my little conversation i just had.


  300.  #300Ella on April 30, 2011 at 2:10 pm

    Lily T

    Re FWB – I don’t think so, I am too much hard work for him for that, he would choose someone easier.


  301.  #301Daria on April 30, 2011 at 2:11 pm

    Sloane – go to the sidebar oh the blog page, click the power and self esteem category… Keep clicking to that to the oldest articles (they’re dated)

    And start reading there.

    Riffing is in part about writing out your unfiltered thought process, part flipping to positive thoughts, part finding sensations in the body and loving them

    It’s a CrUCial tool for bringing vibe to happiness.

  302.  #302Ella on April 30, 2011 at 2:12 pm

    TxMisPretty (Maria)

    So sorry!

    My bad.

    I feel embarressed now! Lol.



  303.  #303Lily T. on April 30, 2011 at 2:16 pm

    Thanks for clarifying Ella. I had a first thought that maybe he was just inexperience in the man-woman-alone-on-a-date thing. And not doing makes sense especially if that is how your social circle usually operates. 🙂

    It did trigger a memory of my own though, when I *dated* (if we can call it that) one guy who just wanted to see me at my home for cuddling-plus, and didn’t take me on ‘real’ dates. Took me longer than it should have to figure what he was about.

    I think you’re doing beautifully btw. 🙂

  304.  #304Daria on April 30, 2011 at 2:18 pm

    Fwb and gf are really on a continuum if there’s no dating.

    I am not of the school of… Find out what his intentions are right away.

    For me, My intentions matter. His intentions don’t really, they will change as he is inspired by me and pursues, he will come to offer me what I want.

    Or else he will fall back thinking he can’t provide that.

  305.  #305Queenbee on April 30, 2011 at 2:18 pm

    Hi Ella, so happy that you moved to your new place. Congratulations and enjoy!

    I think you have most of the answers:

    Ella says:

    “Well firstly I am the fountain of love and I can top up myself.

    I think I need to be brave and take the step of not allowing him to come home with me or go home with him from a casual date.

    So I think my next step is to go to the pub when I want to, top Siren vibe on, have a great night, see my guy, leanback, flirt, be open AND most importantly then just leave, reasonably early, and come home, on my own!”

    … And all your other babysteps sound really good.

    I say FORGET about the date, FORGET about feeling disappointed when he does or doesn’t do whatever.

    That’s trying to control the outcome.

    You’ve already told him once (or three times if I remember correctly – or whatever the number is). Two times is enough and he surely DOES get it. Men get this. You don’t need to do any convincing etc – that’s overfunctioning.

    What would feel good is getting more into yourself… your hobbies and really take the fountain of love seriously.

    That will bring you to ask the question of yourself “why am I here?”

    There is no need to share more FMs on “trying to get a date” as I see/ feel from what you are posting.

    Get into yourself and share from that standpoint. Even better if it has NOTHING to do with him. FMs about how you are enjoying your new place etc. Whatever feels good to you.

    The question being – why are you trying so hard to GET something from a man who refuses to give you what men just do?

    Lean waaayyy back and stop trying to FIX this.

    Just feel your feelings (the negative ones I mean)… let them flow through you and DO NOTHING to try and “fix” this.

    Congratulations again on your new space! Feels good to read 🙂


  306.  #306Daria on April 30, 2011 at 2:20 pm

    Well it doesn’t much matter what He wants, if he wants to come to my house and cuddle sex.

    I just say no, I don’t feel comfortable with that, but am open to going out on a date w u.

    Then he either steps up or falls back.

  307.  #307Ella on April 30, 2011 at 2:20 pm

    Ow, I have not riffed for a while!

    Before writing today I was feeling quite tense, grabby on vibe!

    Weird, and it was/is like tightness in my tummy.

    Ow, now wetness on my tongue.

    Gradually relaxing down.

    Love my new room!

    Yes I was feeling clingy, just reachy out/grabby/clingy.



    Feeling happy lil me now.

    Sad though too miss someone?

    Who? Don’t know, maybe me,

    What part of me Ella?

    Sad lil me… tight shoulders and back,

    Or big, strong me? Boy me who looks after Ella and tops her up?

    Cus I am the fountain!

    Yes I am baby.

    And you better respect it Mr!

    Feeling GRaaaauuur, big lion roooar.

    And playful/bossy – feels tighty tighy and excited in stomach.

    But also a tinge of blue sad shooting through body, and that was pain in my neck.

    Is heavy sigh….


    relaxing, salty mouth.

    And sunburnt legs.

    I love my sunburnt legs, and my tingly nose.

    I love me.

    I love my feelings.

    And all of them and most of all

    I LOVE ME!


  308.  #308Daria on April 30, 2011 at 2:22 pm

    Ouch! I don’t see Ella trying hard at all…

    Just processing and noticing how it feels to her and tweaking her boundaries.

  309.  #309Ella on April 30, 2011 at 2:25 pm

    Lily T,

    Thank you!


  310.  #310Ella on April 30, 2011 at 2:28 pm


    I felt a lil bit ouch too reading your post.

    However still some really good stuff in there too.

    Way I see it my work here is not about trying to get a date from this guy, it is about practicing with boundaries.

    What he then does or doesn’t do is irrelevant.


  311.  #311Queenbee on April 30, 2011 at 2:28 pm

    #304 – Daria, LOVE this!!

    Goodnight Sirens! I’m practicing going to bed early and waking up on time 🙂

    Thank you Queenbee for working out

    Thank you for washing my hair and getting half the beautification done

    Thank you for thanking me on Siren Island. It actually feels really good… must do this more often 🙂



  312.  #312Queenbee on April 30, 2011 at 2:34 pm

    RE 310: Ella, Ok and thanks for that.

    Perhaps I will have a look into why I had that notion. Something for me to look into for myself.


  313.  #313Lucy on April 30, 2011 at 2:48 pm

    Damn! I was at the grocery store and thinking “It’s time to let go – completely let go – of TN man – flush him out of my head”… and was planning a fb status update: “Letting go right now, completely, this moment.” So I get home and log in to fb – and there’s a msg from him saying he and gf are planning a trip this way and want to take me out to dinner. Grrr. I swear he senses my every vibe shift!

  314.  #314Lilybelle on April 30, 2011 at 2:52 pm


    Oh Lucy..

    Isn’t that an interesting turn of events.. What do you think about about having dinner with them?


  315.  #315Lucy on April 30, 2011 at 2:54 pm

    Daria- I love 274-275. 🙂

  316.  #316Lily T. on April 30, 2011 at 3:00 pm

    #313 Interesting. How long has it been since you’ve seen him?

  317.  #317Lucy on April 30, 2011 at 3:03 pm

    Lilybelle, I have very mixed feelings about it. I feel kinda angry that he said this Right when I was ready to let go bc the thought of letting go felt freeing. I also feel kinda good that he wants to see me. I just have such a torn feeling about all this! I had felt good about getting rid of the torn feeling by intending to let go. Of course I still have that option, but now he has made it harder to choose it. 🙁

  318.  #318Lucy on April 30, 2011 at 3:08 pm

    Summerbaby, I clicked on your email link and sent you a msg – via my phone- so it might come through as a phone number with no subject line.

  319.  #319Lilybelle on April 30, 2011 at 3:13 pm


    I suspected this is how you would feel.

    I want you to know I am supporting you while you go through this and am sending you a hug for strength.


  320.  #320Lucy on April 30, 2011 at 3:21 pm

    Lily T, we’ve actually never met in person… when we first connected 4 years ago, he lived 20 some hours away and we both had little intention of meeting. After awhile he poofed. Then 2 yrs later he looked me up on fb and was now living 10 hours away, so we talked about the possibility of meeting…and this time we got very connected emotionally, spiritually, mentally. Then he got offered a great job in a large city 4 hrs away from me, in my state, and expressed disappointment when he discovered I was stil

  321.  #321Lucy on April 30, 2011 at 3:23 pm

    still quite far from there. When he found a local gf our contact decreased substantially but never ended.

  322.  #322Lucy on April 30, 2011 at 3:27 pm

    He introduced me to a lot of spiritual healing techniques and gave great support, guidance, and unconditional love as I worked through healing a bunch of deep stuff. So I have felt very grateful and connected, and a lot of love for him bc of this. He’s the first person in my life who Never judged me about Anything – and that in itself was very healing.

  323.  #323Lucy on April 30, 2011 at 3:29 pm

    The other thing is – if he comes here he will fix my computer!

  324.  #324Lily T. on April 30, 2011 at 3:30 pm

    Thanks Lucy for sharing the backround. It didn’t know it and didn’t want to seem ‘pushy’ by asking.

    So this would really be a kind of big deal meeting for the first time in person, yes? And so odd to come at the precise time you decided to end contact. You said it felt “freeing” to let go of him – have you felt having the relationship was “holding you back” in some way?

  325.  #325Lilybelle on April 30, 2011 at 3:32 pm

    Getting ready to go on the best date ever…with my Dad. We are going to a big ole rodeo where I can totally look for Cowboy eye candy. Treats for the eyes, you know. 😉

    Have a good night all!



  326.  #326Queenbee on April 30, 2011 at 3:33 pm

    I guess there are just some things that I will never understand

    People make different lifestyle choices and that is ok

    I feel triggered by what I think is sloppiness

    To some this is perfectly fine and normal – not even sloppy

    I feel judgmental and I don’t want that

    Not that I have not had my fair share of sloppiness

    But a choice and nothing I need to fret about

    I could still ask myself – where am I being sloppy? And this feels good – another place to heal and grow

    And I KNOW there are many truths out there for people

    I’ll never have the ‘full’ story and will always only see in part

    It feels good to stand firm in what I believe is my truth – my self-worth

    And this has nothing to do with anyone else because no one can tell me my self-worth – it is just me

    I’ve had this experience before… where I feel outcasted for speaking my truth

    But this is good – because that is exactly what it is MY truth

    I don’t want to ‘blame’ my age, experience, intellect or anything else under the sun

    Just what holds true for me – how I feel and how I value myself

    If this keeps me out of danger, crappy relationships, unhappy situations – then for ME this is good

    I feel bad when it seems I can’t ‘fit’ with all people

    This feels really limiting to me

    I feel misunderstood

    But I’m learning and processing… so much faster these days

    It’s a diamond in the sand – what an interesting concept! More to explore…


  327.  #327Lily T. on April 30, 2011 at 3:34 pm

    Have a great time Lil!

  328.  #328Lucy on April 30, 2011 at 3:35 pm

    Lilybelle 319. Thank you so much! That feels good! Something funny – when I typed your name just now, I accidentally typed Lilybelly. Lol! 😀

  329.  #329The Lurker on April 30, 2011 at 3:36 pm

    #320 Hmm, Lucy, I was wondering why you should meet him with his gf present. But since you never met, it’s probably a good idea to use this opportunity to check how the chemistry is between both of you. One way or the other, this will help you in making your mind up about that guy.

  330.  #330Lily T. on April 30, 2011 at 3:36 pm

    Something on your mind Queenbee?

  331.  #331Elizabeth on April 30, 2011 at 3:38 pm

    oooo…what fun!!!
    I just got here to see
    all the sirens having so much fun splashing around in the water with Lurks!
    I have guessed where he lives.
    It’s not The Netherlands (although I am emailing with a gent from there, and have had very close affiliation with the Dutch in the past)
    I don’t know why the stereotype still exists about his country, the ones I know are simply delightful~~

    Hi Lurks!! I think you give splendid advice!!
    muaahh! from Liz Fair


  332.  #332Daria on April 30, 2011 at 3:46 pm

    listening to teh “hey soul sister song”

    he says…

    “you gave my love direction”

    this is how i see what i do when i require dating, etc

  333.  #333Daria on April 30, 2011 at 3:46 pm

    feels good to read you guys like my posts 🙂

  334.  #334Elizabeth on April 30, 2011 at 3:48 pm

    i really like that song, Daria
    hey soul sister :-0

    my heart feels so open lately

    part of the reason is having the friends here

    some of the nicest, most loving people EVER!


  335.  #335Daria on April 30, 2011 at 3:50 pm

    Lilybelle – have fun! make some eye CONTACT and let them come to you,

    BE THEIR Eye candy…

    and bless them with your attention of letting them see the magnets in your eyes

  336.  #336Daria on April 30, 2011 at 3:50 pm

    Elizabeth – yes, this blog Goddesses are my support as well

    and it ‘works’ for me!

  337.  #337Lilybelle on April 30, 2011 at 3:51 pm


    That’s funny! My NV’s were JUST talking to me about my soft belly.



  338.  #338Elizabeth on April 30, 2011 at 3:52 pm

    Love you so much, Goddess Daria!!


  339.  #339Daria on April 30, 2011 at 3:52 pm

    oops my other post got canceled when ipod shut down…

    was writing about how Queenbee’s post to Ella was right on and helpful, about doing nothing, and flowing the feelings

    the ouch part was the “why are you trying so hard”…

  340.  #340The Lurker on April 30, 2011 at 3:53 pm

    #325 Hehe, “Cowboy eye candy”! You should take PG along, she would love that, too. Have fun, Lil!

  341.  #341Lilybelle on April 30, 2011 at 3:54 pm


    Daria, Thanks for the pep talk! I am taking you with me… I can hear you cheering me on already!
    This will be a great place to practice eye contact and soft smiles.

    I’ll be back in a few hours to fill ya in.

    I love practice events and this is a big one!

    Big Hugs!!

  342.  #342Daria on April 30, 2011 at 3:55 pm

    Elizabeth – wow feels good to read that…

    feels scary to share… that i had the impression … well i forgot where from…

    i remember feeling uncomfortable like i was pressuring you a few weeks ago, about CDing

    and i got the feeling, ok the thought, that you resented me

    and i felt kinda closed off from you

    and now that you say that you love me it feels surprising…

    and good…

    and i feel the wall i put up melting

    still feeling a bit of that fear

    loving me

    and YOU!

    feels scary!

  343.  #343Elizabeth on April 30, 2011 at 3:55 pm

    Good Luck and Have Fun, Lil!!


  344.  #344The Lurker on April 30, 2011 at 3:55 pm

    #331 Aww, Liz! :smooch:
    That almost felt like I would transform into something else, like a prince or so!

  345.  #345luzydel on April 30, 2011 at 4:01 pm

    Today is a beautiful day! I am home barefoot and I love it. I could be on a date with a stranger I met online looking at him across the table and talking. Trying to tell him how I feel but afraid of looking awkward becuase I am contaminated with the silly idea of feeling messages (lol). I could be out dating myself or walking my lazy dog at the park. Instead I am at home watching IFC movies.

    I am being me, barefoot, messy hair, and with this smile. Noone to pretent to in front of me. I get the sporadic email from “D” and I could get angry for not getting more from him; I could stop contact with him or I could just take it as is. Enjoy the email reply and then be myself. Enjoy the taste of my coffee, play with my dog and relax. This is all I have control of, the rest is what it is.

    Yesterday after droping my son at his dad, I got stuck in traffic upon my return home. I felt I had all eyes on me from the other people driving. I was singing Happy. I fel beautiful!! I did not get my promotion, I have not been having the best of luck with men, I am broke and I have to find ways to make extra money,
    I am alive!!! I guess this is all part of being human.

  346.  #346Elizabeth on April 30, 2011 at 4:17 pm

    I don’t think I have ever resented you, Daria,

    and I don’t remember where or when you were pressuring me about CDing…CD squaring off is part of the changing scenery here, yes ? i change my mind every day about it anyway, it just depends what is going on for me that day and how it fits into my scheme of things

    you are so generous and offer so much here

    perhaps you felt my resentment over being frustrated with my relationship

    I learn more every day about taking responsibility for my perceptions, and I also know that what people say is coming from their perceptions….

    it’s a bit like what you were saying about the Briane Swimme, was it? parallel universe thing…

    and also, goes along with how i see it that each one of us makes up a part of a huge net of jewels, each one reflecting and bouncing off of all the others and vice versa….all inter-related and affecting the others..

    so, when you wall off one or more jewels, it is blocking a facet of your very self

    although i really don’t like to receive any poison darts and will don a tin foil hat if i have to….LOL

    i think there is more i want to say about the pain body that LG had asked me about, but I will do that in another post.

    Thank you, Daria, for expressing your beautiful self


  347.  #347Daria on April 30, 2011 at 4:19 pm

    what struck me about this wedding ceremony….

    was how the people running it were male

    the priests and stuff

    it seemed like Really a male ceremony to me

    i feel amazed to be struck by this as i was watching…

    it was an awesome realization for me

  348.  #348Elizabeth on April 30, 2011 at 4:20 pm

    344: The Lurker says:

    #331 Aww, Liz! :smooch:
    That almost felt like I would transform into something else, like a prince or so!

    Ah, Lurker….you are a prince or so
    you just don’t know it!


  349.  #349Daria on April 30, 2011 at 4:21 pm

    eLiz – 🙂 that feels good… i feel loved!

    i feel calm and love and beautiful today

  350.  #350Lucy on April 30, 2011 at 4:26 pm

    Thanks, Lil, Lil, and Lurk. Lil T. – good question. In a way he has held me back bc he has put the idea of polyamory in my head as a viable and rewarding option. This was never a consideration for me before. I feel like I am straddling the fence – the white picket fence! – btwn two very different worlds. I come from a conservative background and have always struggled btwn my “good girl” and “bad girl” self. Even when I was a young child my mom called me “the girl with the curl” –

  351.  #351Lucy on April 30, 2011 at 4:27 pm

    “When she was good she was very very good; when she was bad she was horrid.”

  352.  #352Lucy on April 30, 2011 at 4:33 pm

    This quality of mine has always been very attractive to men, both toxic and not. Apparently it even shows in my countenance – TN man says I have “a great naughty-nice look” about me, the new guy says my smile is … oops, can’t quote him in case he’s lurking, but it’s a similar concept, and other people have said similar type things.

  353.  #353Elizabeth on April 30, 2011 at 4:35 pm

    Daria: i feel calm and love and beautiful today

    Yes, I feel that very way too today

    I think many of us on this blog are very sensitive to others emotions and feelings and sometimes take them on as our own, but it goes deeper than that.
    If you notice how woman who hang out together, their period cycles will “entrain” or synch up so they will get them at the same time…

    and somewhere in the fibre of our beings are all the crimes against humanity…i have experienced horrific things in my being from sensing things going on elsewhere…it is extremely unsettling, to say the least…

    so, it is very difficult to control all of this, but,

    i think it is very synchronistic that I heard the song “Hey Jude” today and the line,
    “don’t carry the world upon your shoulders” struck me and I said YES, it is time for humanity to just let it all go….even Lucy said today “let go”

    so on an individual level, how effective can I be in my own purpose and shine and share my own light if I am carrying this huge weight of other people’s emotional suffering around? I’m done.

    🙂 🙂 🙂


  354.  #354Lucy on April 30, 2011 at 4:43 pm

    Lilybelle – cowboys are my Achilles’ heel. 🙂 Oh yes.

  355.  #355Elizabeth on April 30, 2011 at 4:44 pm

    350 Lucy,
    it is my HO that polyamory is not a viable thing for most of humanity at this point, and when it would be a viable thing, it would no longer be necessary.
    if that makes any sense, and i think to you it might.

  356.  #356The Lurker on April 30, 2011 at 4:47 pm

    #350 Hmm, damn, I forgot about the “polyamoric” side, Lucy. In this light, his invitation to a dinner together with his girlfriend looks a bit different, of course. He certainly will at least hope he can appeal to your “bad girl” persona and convince you to join the action. Dunno if that would be a good idea for you now…

  357.  #357Lily T. on April 30, 2011 at 4:49 pm

    If you declined to meet them do you feel you would regret it?

    If you met with them do you feel it would inspire envy? Longing?

    Could you meet them without being attatched to outcome?

  358.  #358Lucy on April 30, 2011 at 4:53 pm

    284 Lurker. Your kiss: x

  359.  #359Lucy on April 30, 2011 at 4:55 pm

    We have an exquisite picture book of the frog prince story, somewhere on our many bookshelves. I will have to locate it.

  360.  #360The Lurker on April 30, 2011 at 4:57 pm

    #358 Mmm…. xo
    Thx, Lucy!

  361.  #361Lily T. on April 30, 2011 at 4:59 pm

    Preface: I’m not the least bit interested in polyamory personally.

    The opportunity to finally meet in person, someone I felt mentally/emotionally connected to for so long though…I think the curiosity would be overwhelming for me.

    Is it possible for dinner to just be dinner?

  362.  #362Lucy on April 30, 2011 at 5:02 pm

    Oh! I found it already! The Princess and the Frog by Rachel Isadora, published by Greenwillow Books. The prose, illustrations, and graphics are so enchanting and inspiring! Maybe I will read it aloud to myself when I go to bed tonight. 🙂

  363.  #363The Lurker on April 30, 2011 at 5:04 pm

    It’s late here, I’m off to bed. Lucy, whatever you do, take care, ok? See you Sirens tomorrow. XO to y’all!

  364.  #364The Lurker on April 30, 2011 at 5:05 pm

    #362 Aww, you’re so sweet, Lucy! G’night.

  365.  #365Daria on April 30, 2011 at 5:05 pm

    Polyamory for me is another way to think of ‘singleness’

  366.  #366Lucy on April 30, 2011 at 5:09 pm

    Elizabeth – I agree – but in this in-between time it is viable for Some of humanity, and seems to be serving them well. The question is, am I among the Some?

  367.  #367Daria on April 30, 2011 at 5:12 pm

    Polygamy is like having more than one babymama, and babydaddies

    It’s all good!

    I love me and seeking to see what’s in front of me rather than what’s told is in front of me

  368.  #368Elizabeth on April 30, 2011 at 5:21 pm

    366 Lucy
    “Elizabeth – I agree – but in this in-between time it is viable for Some of humanity, and seems to be serving them well. The question is, am I among the Some?”

    I don’t care one way or another about polyamory, either, but it is not a lifestyle that I have any interest in for myself because of the meaning I attach to the sex act, which works well for me, dharma-wise. That being said,
    I see that you have been wrestling with this for quite some time. You know that it is about fear. You don’t know if you are ready for the fall-out from engaging and how cool the other two are with it, really. really. My concern would be what kind of drama would you be inviting into your life. Perhaps you do want to experience the emotions you might experience from the actual doing of it, but you hold back because you already know on some level. What are your motivations for entertaining this?


  369.  #369Daria on April 30, 2011 at 5:21 pm

    OMG miracles!

    My mom just talked to me about my friend who passed away who’s picture I have, and about a man she remembers really liking, who I remember experiencing differently that memory

    And then we talked about why there are guns why violence, and wars,

    And my mom herself saw weapons as self defense and

    I shared w her how these are very potent times for humanity time transformation to enlightenment because we are mow so aware of each other and all in contact

  370.  #370Jacqueline on April 30, 2011 at 5:22 pm

    I feel calm and lovely and beautiful and “glowing” haha….yep, let go…after all the sadness and stress from Japan to the Middle East (which maybe a very good thing but is stressful) to the unbelievable devastation that put tears in my eyes….

    A day at the local beach park fair and great sex have taken my mind off of it, and I’m determined my mind shall stay off of it. Non drama personal peace, looking for my way/path/signs….

    feels good.

    Everyone sounds happy! Yeah!!

  371.  #371Daria on April 30, 2011 at 5:23 pm

    These kinds of talks w my mom before felt scary with doom and feeling desolately lonely and not able to share truth

  372.  #372Elizabeth on April 30, 2011 at 5:27 pm

    Hi Jacqueline!

    I’m glad to hear you had a great day!

    was a little concerned about you feeling down.

    yes, i hear you about tears in your eyes…i think we can be compassionate, practice tonglen, even go and help out in some way, without holding on to the suffering and devastation so much, letting it color and contaminate us, from the macro level to the micro level

    negative feedback loops suck big-time!!

    happy that you are happy



  373.  #373Jacqueline on April 30, 2011 at 5:28 pm

    Lucy, wow….my first thought was ummm, “inclusion” too. heee…but I know you will chose the best path for you. And I vote for you having the ONE person who will put you on a pedestal and nurture you to full blossoming. High 5 for choices too!

  374.  #374Jacqueline on April 30, 2011 at 5:34 pm

    Elizabeth, I felt kind of weird talking about it – I’m an empath and I feel it might be used against me. But absolutely I sponge up stuff on here to where I can’t sleep sometimes. Just as I leaned in real life I’m going to keep my boundaries, somehow it being on line it went right past them….the caring. A friend wrote and reminded me I don’t even watch to local news to see who all died in Houston every day – 2, 3? out of 4 million? ….. but yet I was doing absolutely no filtering here. It was a great eye opener. I absolutely don’t thrive on conflict. But I also completely honor my truth and the validity of the many many amazing experiences I’ve had with men.

    You always sound so good to me – like I just wanna hug you to pieces, well not literally. Smile…

    you are a fresh voice, a delightful insight and an upliftment to our group…if I were to voice it.

    If I were to feel it – you feel like that bright red balloon in the sky tied to me with a yellow ribbon and carrying my joy around with me….

    You feel like a bright summer’s day down at the creek with some crickets and a well manicured lawn and dappled shade….

    You feel safe.

    Thank you for being here.

  375.  #375Jacqueline on April 30, 2011 at 5:38 pm

    Lurker – love your picture and I feel badly because I sensed a “difference” in your tone and because your English is indeed perfect, but a Texas twang to the feeling and now I see that you actually are from another country with a different culture, I can see how I misunderstood you. My apologies.

  376.  #376Elizabeth on April 30, 2011 at 5:43 pm

    Angel JLina,

    Thank you so very much for that wonderful affirmation. After all the negativity i have recently experienced, it is an elixir, you have no idea.
    i am saving it and am setting an intention to put it in a painting inspired by it.

    You are simply amazing.

    Thank you too for being here.



  377.  #377Jacqueline on April 30, 2011 at 5:44 pm

    that should be I put a Texas twang – i.e. compared to some other tones I’d heard with guys writing me, when it could just be a cultural thing. I’m glad you add so much to everyone’s discussions!

  378.  #378Jacqueline on April 30, 2011 at 5:46 pm

    Elizabeth, you know my secret name? I’m blushing…

    and glad I lightened your heart for a moment.

    Happy day to all!

  379.  #379Lucy on April 30, 2011 at 5:47 pm

    357 Lily. 1.yes 2.yes 3.yes 4. That is the million-dollar question.

  380.  #380Daria on April 30, 2011 at 5:53 pm

    *** ***

    ! !
    \ *O*
    \ !
    ( ) ( ) \
    ( 8 )
    / \
    / \
    ! !
    ! !
    o o

  381.  #381Daria on April 30, 2011 at 5:54 pm

    *** ***

    * –
    * ! !
    * –^–
    * ^
    * !
    * 0
    * \ *O*
    * \ !
    * ( ) ( ) \
    * \___o
    * ( 8 )
    * / \
    * / \
    * ! !
    * ! !
    * o o

  382.  #382Daria on April 30, 2011 at 5:55 pm

    aaa \

  383.  #383Daria on April 30, 2011 at 6:03 pm

    *** ***

    ! !
    \ *O*
    \ !
    ( ) ( ) \
    ( 8 )
    / \
    / \
    ! !
    ! !
    o o

  384.  #384Lily T. on April 30, 2011 at 6:13 pm


    If you’ve never met TN in person, who do you know you would even feel a physical connection to him? Much less enough of one, and a complimentary (?) connection to his gf to make a polyamourous situation worthwhile? Wouldn’t you have to move to their town? Would you want to do that?

    I’m just seeing so many carts put before the horses here. I understand you are intrigued by the idea, but…I dunno, it’s kind of looking like a fantasy turned into a helluva lot of work.

    I have confidence that you will make the best decisions for YOU though. 🙂 ‘Nite.

  385.  #385Daria on April 30, 2011 at 6:13 pm

    *** ***

    ! !
    \ *O*
    \ !
    ( ) ( ) \
    ( 8 )
    / \
    / \
    ! !
    ! !
    o o

  386.  #386Daria on April 30, 2011 at 6:14 pm


    ok check my blog to find out what that bunch of lines was intended to show by moi

  387.  #387Lucy on April 30, 2011 at 6:15 pm

    Thanks Jacqueline. What do you mean by “my first thought was…’inclusion’ too”? I felt encouraged reading the part about you knowing I will choose the best path for me. I pondered that statement a bit and then the Robert Frost poem popped into my head and I laughed bc usually when two roads diverge in a wood I do take the one less traveled by. *sigh*

  388.  #388Elizabeth on April 30, 2011 at 6:25 pm

    oh, WOW! Daria!
    I love it!

    did you start your quilt yet?

    need to go clean up around here now,
    later all

    happy everyone’s happy



  389.  #389Daria on April 30, 2011 at 7:05 pm

    quilt reminder…

    feeling a lil overwhelmed

    am researching balancing blood sugar

    and how to run a teleseminar

    and for tonight… going out and also going to visit og friend

  390.  #390Lucy on April 30, 2011 at 7:17 pm

    Lily – I know, it’s kinda a mess. It’s really one step at a time, yet even the first step is rather a large one in this case. I will just keep trusting my boundaries, feeling my feelings, choosing my words, and being surprised. I msgd him back, “We shall see… :)” Knowing him, he may sense my difficulty and drop it, at least for now. He always respects me in that way. As far as me feeling a physical connection with him, that I am sure of. Thanks for your help. <3

  391.  #391Prairie Girl on April 30, 2011 at 7:34 pm

    Hey LG would you email me at tracyequinlan@hotmail.com
    Thank you!

  392.  #392Jacqueline on April 30, 2011 at 8:02 pm

    Hey, PG…hope you are better?? and hugggggs

    Lucy, inclusion in “their” relationship – like the invite is for more than the invite, you know – but it was just my first reaction…sometimes, lunch is just lunch?


  393.  #393Jacqueline on April 30, 2011 at 8:25 pm

    Daria – you are so creative! That is so cute and I did kind of see it in what was showing up here….I wondered, anyway. I hope you’re letting your artist side out to play much more these days.

    And it felt like a really cute and fun gift – thank you!


  394.  #394Lucy on April 30, 2011 at 8:36 pm

    Thank you Lucy for reading me a lovely magical bedtime story. I feel proud and admiring of you. <3

  395.  #395Daria on April 30, 2011 at 8:40 pm

    i feel happy!

    ive discovered an at home way to create a backdrop for a webcam video

    and even perhaps a way to run a teleseminar so that viewing my webcam is also an option…

  396.  #396RiverGirl on April 30, 2011 at 8:40 pm

    Good night Lucy. Sweet dreams.

  397.  #397Lucy on April 30, 2011 at 8:41 pm

    Thanks for clarifying Jacqueline. <3

  398.  #398Daria on April 30, 2011 at 8:41 pm

    and i just had an orgasm!


    feeling embarassed

    i am starting to feel really so much more open watching porn

    i am not judging people so much for having sex, or what they look like


    i just feel more open and loveeee

    i am no longer feeling creeped out by touching myself

    Tinque said to keep practicing and it eventually will heal and it did!

  399.  #399gina on April 30, 2011 at 8:44 pm

    Ladies, would love some insight. It feels interesting to have a complete shift with D…but it feels maybe “too late” – if this had happened when he was still here in town, it’d be so different. But he’s gone, and i’m feeling myself fall harder for him as he becomes more independent, more powerful in his position, more confident, and more himself (vs the side of him that I didn’t like at all while he was dealing with the challenges of making the transition). He’s been more attentive, but that pretty much amounts to text messages and late night phone calls. And now that I’m not badgering him with my anger, it just feels a little sad that his love isn’t as potent as it once was. It feels heartbreaking. And I keep letting him know exactly how I’m feeling, and he loves hearing how I feel. He says he wants me to come visit, and I’m willing…EXCEPT that he never did make up for the lack of acknowledgement for the last week that he was here, including no contact on Valentines day. I have said so many times how much this means to me, and how time isn’t healing this wound. And yet he has done nothing. I feel my heart quickening and tears burning as I write it. I’m still angry and hurt more and more as he doesn’t take car of it…ugh…
    any reason I should try to change my own mind and heart about his v-day thing – or do I keep letting him know how it bothers me?

  400.  #400Lucy on April 30, 2011 at 8:44 pm

    p.s. You are correct Jacqueline – inclusion is his intent.

  401.  #401Lucy on April 30, 2011 at 8:46 pm

    Goodnight Rivergirl. <3

  402.  #402RiverGirl on April 30, 2011 at 9:00 pm

    399: gina says:

    “I’m still angry and hurt more and more as he doesn’t take car of it…ugh… any reason I should try to change my own mind and heart about his v-day thing – or do I keep letting him know how it bothers me?”

    Gina, I am probably not the best one to comment on your situation as I’ve never really had many expectations around V Day. (Probably a self preservation thing I’ve done after years being single)

    My feeling on your situation is that you have told him how important it is to you and how you felt let down by him and that he may well be thinking that there is nothing he can do about it until next year. Realising how important it is to you, he might step up then. Continuing to remind him about how he let you down might feel like nagging to him so perhaps it would be best to leave it for now.

  403.  #403Daria on April 30, 2011 at 9:03 pm

    It still feels embarrassing to have written that. Like, what if I decided to give details

    Like: ‘then I tasted my pussy juices’. lol

    That feels so embarrassing like I’m doing something ‘wrong’ even offending others by sharing that

    Hello judgements about sex I am going to have a wonderful free fulfilling whole sex life that is healing and wonderful and honoring

    Thank u

  404.  #404Laughing Goddess on April 30, 2011 at 9:05 pm

    PG: Incoming mail 🙂

  405.  #405Daria on April 30, 2011 at 9:09 pm

    Gina – I feel confused.

    It seems there’s a boundary hole here

    If you feel upset w him… Then I would let him know… Yet if I’m still feeling angry at someone I woulnd continue to communicate with them

    I communicate with them when I feel good and connected

    And I forgive as best I can,

    If he has apologized, I say thank you, then forgive

    if it still feels bad.. I say… This still feels bad… As soon as I feel good then I drop the past

    If it doesn’t feel good I stop communicating

    But to communicate for two months seems like you’ve already moved on…

    This feels confusing

    I wouldn’t be communicating with this man if I were still feeling upset w him… Except to give him a chance to make me feel better , and then as soon as I feel better we start fresh

  406.  #406Daria on April 30, 2011 at 9:11 pm

    In other words… You’re either holding onto bad feeling thoughts about the past ‘your stuff’

    Or else you’re talking to a man that it doesn’t feel good to talk to

  407.  #407Lilybelle on April 30, 2011 at 9:20 pm


    Saw some fabulous Cowboy tushies tonight. 🙂


  408.  #408gina on April 30, 2011 at 9:22 pm

    Urgh…no I don’t want to let it go. He admitted he was a jerk and apologized. And I still want a card or flowers or a gift or SOMETHING now. Not next year.

  409.  #409RiverGirl on April 30, 2011 at 9:23 pm

    Gina, from what you have written @ 399 it doesn’t sound like he is taking very good care of you lately. Do you have any CD’s? Could you take care of you? xo

  410.  #410Laughing Goddess on April 30, 2011 at 9:24 pm

    Lilybelle: Yum! How did your practice go?

  411.  #411gina on April 30, 2011 at 9:25 pm

    I hear what you’re saying Daria…I guess I’m talking to a guy who it doesn’t feel very good to talk to. If he’d take care of that stuff, it’d feel better. But I feel worse when we DON’T talk…

  412.  #412Emerson on April 30, 2011 at 9:33 pm

    Hello Sirens!

  413.  #413Emerson on April 30, 2011 at 9:34 pm

    Thinking of SLV and sending warm thoughts her way….hope she is ok.

  414.  #414Lilybelle on April 30, 2011 at 9:37 pm


    It wasn’t as successful as a girl (me) had hoped. Only because it wasn’t a situation where I could put myself “out there” to practice. I was with my Dad and his wife, we were in assigned seating and I was surrounded by…wait for it….women and children, down near the arena.

    But my vibe was good, I was confident, relaxed and happy and it was fun.

    But the cowboy tushies..oh yummy….

    And then, I came home to more hate mail from my sister. I really need help with this. I feel indifferent, I just don’t care about re-building the relationship. She pushes and pushes and I am almost at the breaking point to where I want to say all the hateful things I feel about her to her now. I feel tired.

    I feel pissed that she continues, like she always has, to try to turn me into a bad person.

    I feel like I am going to effing explode.

    And, sadly, I feel like if I don’t get my arms wrapped around the real intent of forgiveness, I will not be blessed with “him.”

    I am so tired. I have made great strides in the last two months, and I feel like I have to cave in and just forget about her mis-treatment of me. I used to do that all the time but I feel very strongly that I have to stand up for myself and speak my truth. I have been trying to come from a place of love and respect, but it never is good enough.

    so now, with the latest hate mail I received tonight, I want to lash out at her, tell her what a opinionated, gossip-y, judgemental, self-righteous person I think she is.

    The thoughts that I have scare me, I am so angry.

    Damn, damn DAMN! How do I heal this? How do I forgive this? How??

    I like my anger alot though.


    *help* (this is my little girl voice. I’m going to hug her now.)

  415.  #415RiverGirl on April 30, 2011 at 9:40 pm

    @ 413
    I feel sure she is. 🙂

  416.  #416gina on April 30, 2011 at 9:40 pm

    RiverGirl, thanks…no, I don’t feel cared for nearly enough. And yet, I know he’s under tremendous stress, and I want to keep it open, but no, it isn’t nearly good enough. But I feel so sad to think of “ending” it. or even of not hearing from him. Like yesterday, I felt all heart broken cuz I didn’t hear from him till 3:30 in the morning. But then we had a great conversation, and he says that he thinks all this conflict between us has amounted to us growing individually – he says he just isn’t the same guy who used to get mad if I didn’t answer the phone when he calls, etc. So the conversation itself felt connected and intimate, and I did happen to be up…but I guess I just wish that he made me a priority. And he hasn’t since we broke up. And sometimes he indicates that he hopes we’ll end up together, and other times he says “we just don’t know” whether we’ll end up together. and it feels awful, cause he used to be so sure that I’m “the one.” ugh it feels horrible to hear him say that. I just feel furious that he went from acting like he wanted to marry me, to putting pressure on me to come to boston even though it wasn’t the best thing for me, basically cornering me (either go to boston with him or break up) so I did break up with him, refusing to work it out, we dabbled in a relationship (occasional sex), and then he leaves and then realizes that it wouldn’t have been right for me to move to Boston right away, and he admits he was a jerk to me, and yet he did tinkers with the idea of a future together. When I started bawling, letting him know how awful it feels to be treated badly by him, he started to text me in the morning, afternoon, and night, and then he calls late at night -and that’s it. I get it that it’s all he has to give me, but it isn’t enough for me to feel fulfilled, especially since I feel like we’re starting at such a deficit because of past crap

  417.  #417Emerson on April 30, 2011 at 9:41 pm

    Thanks Rivergirl 😉

  418.  #418RiverGirl on April 30, 2011 at 9:51 pm

    Not quite Emerson, I’m an Aussie!

  419.  #419gina on April 30, 2011 at 9:52 pm

    so is this something I keep sharing with him? or do I need to get busy getting love elsewhere?? I mean I make little connections with men here and there, but I’m not dating or involved with anyone.

  420.  #420gina on April 30, 2011 at 9:54 pm

    i guess i’m just not hanging well with this long-distance business

  421.  #421gina on April 30, 2011 at 9:56 pm

    ugh I feel so heartbroken and BORED in my own life. I feel so ready for MORE. I can totally see myself in Boston, and I just wish he’d earn me going there. But I sense that the reason I want to go is cause I want to beef up my own life and that sounds like automatic excitement. ooh! I hear horses’ hooves going clip clop outside!!! i love that sound. Thanks, God. God, please, make this situation better!!! please?

  422.  #422gina on April 30, 2011 at 10:12 pm

    he was here for 5 months and didn’t try to see me…am i really holding on to bad feeling thoughts, or isn’t that just a bad reality?? can I really forgive him for that? especially since he isn’t just falling all over himself to get me back now. He’s more just “wondering if things could be differents..”

  423.  #423gina on April 30, 2011 at 10:13 pm

    no s on the end of that “different…”

  424.  #424Lucy on April 30, 2011 at 10:18 pm

    Need help: Can we Never make a suggestion to a guy? If he’s trying to do something (specific) for us and it’s not working and we know a way that it might work, can we tell him?

  425.  #425Lucy on April 30, 2011 at 10:27 pm

    And in this case I have information about it that he doesn’t because it has to do with something that is mine.

  426.  #426Dorothea on April 30, 2011 at 10:28 pm

    i just went on a first date with an interesting guy. my good girl friend set me up with him…he is her and her hubby’s best friend. I feel flattered that they want me to go out with someone they think so highly of.

    he didn’t open doors for me. i usually am critical of these things. but because they vouch for him, i felt myself not wanting to care so much.

    those little things are important to me though:). I told my friend and she laughed at me. lol

    but now that i’m home, i am just thinking about the guy i was seeing that things werent going well with, so i decided to really start CDing and focusing on me. but things are so not good with him. ugh. i feel lonely.

  427.  #427SummerBaby on April 30, 2011 at 10:36 pm


    I replied to your message from your phone. I just got home from work. Gonna crash now, it’s been a very long day/night.


  428.  #428Daria on April 30, 2011 at 11:31 pm

    Gina –

    “But I feel worse when we DON’T talk…”

    this means you are not taking good care of yourself. you are relying on this one person to make you feel good…

    you must CD right away

    start right away with smiling at men, GOING TO PLACES WHERE THERE ARE MEN (clubs and bars will have them for sure) and accepting dates with boring men

  429.  #429Daria on April 30, 2011 at 11:35 pm

    Gina – you will heal this right away, when you get into dating other guys

    it’s just holding on to an imaginary relationship now

    you don’t live in the same place

    either you move up there and you guys get married

    or else its just gonna keep bleeding you and making you feel bad

  430.  #430Daria on April 30, 2011 at 11:36 pm

    Dorothea – sorry you’re feeling lonely


    i am feelin so NOT lonely at home alone on the computer

    tweaking my blog without success

  431.  #431Daria on April 30, 2011 at 11:37 pm

    Some success

  432.  #432Dorothea on April 30, 2011 at 11:47 pm

    Daria, thanks for the hugs…you are so right about Gina feeling upset about him because she’s not taking care of herself.
    I find that my resistance to taking care of myself and wanting to just look for HIM to make everything good (instead of taking care of myself and walking away when he’s not doing it, essentially taking No for an answer instead of getting upset at him and letting him know somehow) just makes everything worse. It’s that toxic pattern. If I heal me, he will heal. Hopefully.

  433.  #433Daria on April 30, 2011 at 11:55 pm

    yay success!

  434.  #434Daria on April 30, 2011 at 11:58 pm

    Dorothea – yes if you heal stuff will feel wonderful and he’ll have an open door to heal as well

    today i just bawled for like 10 min cuz a guy i went on two dates with was playing around with me and wanting me to go to the train station and then i felt bad and unloved

    so i wound up hanging up and really let myself cry i was feeling really upset

    im still feeling upset with him but very happy with myself about how well i take care of me now

  435.  #435Daria on April 30, 2011 at 11:59 pm

    i’m not even feeling upset with him so much anymore, just a lil scared / closed off

  436.  #436Daria on May 1, 2011 at 12:16 am


    feeling Turned off

  437.  #437Dorothea on May 1, 2011 at 12:24 am

    Daria, 436, i find myself crying and getting upset when i feel turned off . my insides scramble when i feel turned off, and something feels very Wrong. I have big issues with feeling turned off. A lot of the time I just get all upset sometimes deeply when i don’t realize i’m just turned off. or part of me realizes it and doesn’t want to admit that it’s as simple as being turned off.

    i feel guilty when i feel turned off. i don’t feel worthy of having the liberty to feel turned off. and also i take a man’s desire/ability to turn me on personally, as a reflection of my self worth.

    i become deeply upset

    ahhhh wtf. want to change this one, thank you!

  438.  #438Daria on May 1, 2011 at 12:34 am

    Dorothea – yeah that’s what i felt. i felt like a very vulnerable little girl

    i was bawling

    it wasn’t really about this man, but what about got triggered

    then the feeling passed and i felt better… and in some minutes i felt better still

    i think because i really let myself feel that feeling and bawl it out, it shifted quickly and healed stuff

  439.  #439Queenbee on May 1, 2011 at 1:26 am

    RE: 339 – Daria, Ella – yeah, thanks for that.

    re. “the ouch part was the “why are you trying so hard”…”

    I’ve figured it out. I used to have this same pattern in my college days – spending the night with my man (lover then) with no date.

    I was Soooo into him – probably addicted – and the sex was the best sex I ever had.

    Anyway, early on the relationship was ruined coz I lied to him that I had no bf (the one I couldn’t get rid of).

    But I never stopped being into him. I now see Oxytocin is a REAL thing for me… need to explore more.

    Anyhow, I never brought up the issue of ‘date’ or anything.

    One, I had no tools – hence also a crumbtaker.

    What I would do is Rockstar with it.

    Hence, why I read into this with ‘trying hard’.

    Even though I would Rockstar, I still got hurt MAJORLY in so many other ways.

    Long story short, he did ask me once to be his gf and later asked me to move to Toronto so we could have a relationship.

    On both accounts I refused. My issues with him were:

    1) Always late (3 – 6 hours)
    2) Cheater (though we had no exclusivity agreement or anything – more me… no tools)
    3) Emails with typos/ grammatical errors like – This weak, instead of This week.

    End of the day the lateness was my ultimate boundary. So that was it.

    So Ella – MY BAD! I see now where you are in your process and I admire your courage to,

    a) Change negative patterns
    b) Stand up for yourself
    c) at the same time stand up for love

    I feel really good now re-reading your post and you are definitely on the right track.

    What it means for me is – exploring myself/ my boundaries around Rockstar, (a, b, c above) and Oxytocin and how I deal with all that.

    Thank you again ladies!!

    Rock on Ella! 🙂


  440.  #440The Lurker on May 1, 2011 at 1:43 am

    #290 #285 Lily, I don’t know enough about that guy to make any educated guesses. It may very well be like Ella herself said it, that he’s basically a pub guy who isn’t that accustomed with regular dating. I know such guys, too, whose social circle evolves around the bar they’re frequenting (or the sports team they’re suppporting). Now, it’s probably only an arrogant prejudice of me, but imho those guys aren’t the most intellectually interesting persons around. But, of course, any one of them may more than make up for that with other positive traits. So, if a girl can cope with that, that shouldn’t be a dealbreaker, imho.

    However, I still think Ella gave the guy a bit much advance credit when making out with him, and that she then laid back again and waited for him to step up may look like a mixed signal to him. That would explain his indecision at the party, when he (if I remember that correctly) at one time all but claimed her, and at the other watched from a distance (guess he may have been jealous when Ella talked with others).

    But it looks like Ella let him know he has to step up and be more active if he wants to get more from her. He may need some time to adjust to that, but if he’s seriously interested (and it sure looks as if he is), he will eventually come up with ideas. So, imho it’s best to simply wait and see what develops from this!

  441.  #441Daria on May 1, 2011 at 1:47 am

    woo hoo!

    more logistics discoveries

    i now have a program that records skype videos

    unfortunately it seems to be a bit off on the sound to video synch…

  442.  #442The Lurker on May 1, 2011 at 1:56 am

    #421 Gina, that you’re bored and expect your guy to change that raises a bit of a red flag for me. Listen to what Daria is saying, you are responsible for your own happiness in the first place! Don’t expect a bf to magically make your life interesting, this task will overwhelm almost every guy. We men can contribute a lot to our girls happiness, but we can’t be her one and only entertainer, providing fun every single day. We talked about that here some days ago, and Rusty agreed that this is a major problem in a relationship for us guys. It will drain so much energy that rather sooner than later it will lead to a breakup.

    So, really, listen to Daria, and to what Rori writing in her advices, too. You don’t want to be needy in a relationship, you want to be your own independent and interesting person! So, don’t focus exclusively on a bf to become your sole source of happiness, find stuff you can do for yourself that makes you happy! That will make you feel much more relaxed, about the bf issue, too, and also make you more attractive to him. It’s a win/win!

  443.  #443Daria on May 1, 2011 at 2:12 am

    Lurker – do you have any knowledge or exeperience with setting up teleseminars or video conferences?

  444.  #444Ella on May 1, 2011 at 2:30 am

    Re 351

    Lucy, I think that post is me! Te he 🙂


  445.  #445The Lurker on May 1, 2011 at 2:30 am

    #370 “Non drama personal peace, looking for my way/path/signs….
    feels good.”
    And that sounds good, Jacqueline! You’re so relaxed now, showing you’re comfortable in your skin, and that sends good vibes to your surroundings, too. Great!

    #375 “a Texas twang to the feeling” Hehe, really? That’s funny! Didn’t notice that yet, but it may very well be so. I like to pick up slang words and popular phrases, in order to be able to blend in with the crowd and not be recognized as a foreigner so easily. And I like the laid back Southern way of talking (probably also because I simply can’t talk as fast as a New Yorker in my second language). So, it’s not a conscious effort to mislead anyone, but it may feel inauthentic to folks who have a sensitive antenna for the undertones. Thank you for bringing this to my attention, dahling!
    And then, yes, imho online communication more easily leads to misunderstandings/misperceptions because the feedback from body language, subtle changes of the voice etc is missing. Maybe our imagination is trying to compensate for this, interpreting too much into written words. A single comment may rub us the wrong way, and then we see all subsequent comments through a distorted lense.

    Such shit happens, we’re only human and humans make mistakes. Even more reason to be more careful with our judgment and to be open to change our opinion again. Imho it shows real strength of character to revise an assesment and to reach out again. Kudos to you, Jacqueline, for showing that greatness! It made me think twice, too, and I see that I put too much emphasis on a single comment, which I may very well have misinterpreted. That wasn’t fair, and I apologize for this. Sorry, Jaqueline. Peace!
    And a hug?

  446.  #446The Lurker on May 1, 2011 at 2:35 am

    #443 Hmm, not really, Daria. I use Skype, too, but I haven’t tried the advanced features yet. And no good knowledge about other programs, either. Sorry.

    What are you trying to accomplish? I’m good at finding infos and solutions, maybe I could be helpful.

  447.  #447Ella on May 1, 2011 at 2:40 am


    Thank you.

    I feel so much better reading your most recent post. It feels good when the stuff I am processing brings up stuff for other Sirens to heal, and a lot of the things that came up for you are the things I am working through.

    Luckily I have some good protection from the tools and also CD-ing.

    However I still have to watch out for the Oxcytoxin reaction! Even theough we have not actually slept together, it can still creep in for me, and warning signals are when I start to feel all goey towards a guy, or think about him more than others, then sometimes I need to pull back a bit, esp if he is not yet stepping up.

    Ow, wouldn’t it be exciting to be able to get that warm goey feeling for guys and not have it take over… not become too focuses on that one guy who I am feeling it for.

    This is where I want to be!

    Feeling really good about stuff today and really proud of how I am working my life with the tools!

    Hugs Queenbee and Sirens.


  448.  #448The Lurker on May 1, 2011 at 2:43 am

    #441 “unfortunately it seems to be a bit off on the sound to video synch”

    If the sounds leads or follows the video by a constant degree, you can compensate for this with the VLC video editor (also a player, streamer, lots of features). You can adjust the sync in milliseconds. That app is freeware, available for most popular OSes:

  449.  #449Ella on May 1, 2011 at 2:47 am

    Oh Queenbee also,

    I also have an issue with some of the stuff that has been happening recently and sometimes wonder about sloppiness.

    I am very unsloppy in general and sometimes get accussed of being stush and prim and proper etc…

    For me I am at a place where I am aiming to do away with labels for my behaviour and judging myself as it doesn’t feel so good.

    And yet with this kind of situation I tend to swing from feeling too prim and proper to feel quite slutty and sloppy!

    So that tells me I have not yet found exactly what works and feels good for me with this kind of situation yet.

    And hence all the processing and writing about it on here.

    I know I am getting there and I am feeling so much better with myself no matter what I do!

    At the moment I am just experimenting with boundaries and what feels good… work in progress


  450.  #450The Lurker on May 1, 2011 at 2:49 am

    #447 “wouldn’t it be exciting to be able to get that warm goey feeling for guys and not have it take over”

    That excitement isn’t so far away in time, Ella! Once you have found your Mr. Right and are in a stable relationship with him, you can led your guard down and enjoy the warm gooey feelings. And he will love you for this. All the best, cute Siren, you deserve it!

  451.  #451Ella on May 1, 2011 at 2:50 am

    Today is about loving and workshipping Siren ME!

    Starting with a nice hot shower in my new bathroom! 🙂


  452.  #452Ella on May 1, 2011 at 2:53 am

    Hugs Lurker!



  453.  #453kaitlyn on May 1, 2011 at 3:15 am


    After Adam and I went long distance, even though we talked daily a lot and the calls were initiated by him mostly, the distance made me put more focus on the relationship instead of my career and hobbies. It made me take my insecurities out on him because the challenge of distance made me more sensitive. I regret a lot of stuff I did, and it all stems from me focussing on the relationship more than me. I don’t mean me in the relationship. I mean me and my career, my art, my bass guitar, my wallpaper collecting, etc. Not only did I lose him, but we no longer talk. At all. Something to think about, Gina. Just sayin.’

  454.  #454The Lurker on May 1, 2011 at 3:18 am

    #451 #452 Simply ignore the frog in your bathroom, Ella! He’s only there because he likes the warm water. At least that’s what he wants you to believe…

  455.  #455Daria on May 1, 2011 at 3:27 am

    Thanks Lurker… i have VLC

    will come back to ask you how to adjust the synch when i get to that part

  456.  #456The Lurker on May 1, 2011 at 3:28 am

    #453 I admire the self reflection apparent in you comment, Kaitlyn! You’re learning from this and you’re healing, even though it takes time, of course. Just remember, regret is ok, torturing yourself is wrong. You weren’t the only one making mistakes. But with your new focus on your many talents you’re becoming more independent again and thus even more desirable. And one day Adam will notice that. Or another attractive prince who will jump from his horse and pay attention to the adorable lady Kaitlyn. That’s virtually inevitable, imho!

  457.  #457Daria on May 1, 2011 at 3:28 am

    Kaitlyn – how do you collect wallpaper?

  458.  #458kaitlyn on May 1, 2011 at 3:38 am


    Thanks but because of a late night long convo about this with my bff, we ended up staying out 2 hrs later than planned, which is bad becuase we have a huge day at work EARLY tmrw. Now he is very angry and blowing up my phone with anger.

    Once again, I’m a fsck up.

  459.  #459kaitlyn on May 1, 2011 at 3:39 am


    ebay, samples, whatever. It’s the deocrator nerd version of collecting stationary i guess.

  460.  #460Daria on May 1, 2011 at 3:40 am

    Kaitlyn – thanks,, so do you plan on doing art stuff with them? do you display them or just keep them hidden

  461.  #461kaitlyn on May 1, 2011 at 3:42 am

    personal art. could care less if it’s in a gallery

  462.  #462Daria on May 1, 2011 at 3:43 am

    ohoh tell me… like how? collage?

    thats what i suspected

  463.  #463kaitlyn on May 1, 2011 at 3:45 am

    drawing, mood boards (google that) for interior design, pics

  464.  #464kaitlyn on May 1, 2011 at 3:45 am

    I hate collages. They look like clutter. I hate clutter.

  465.  #465Daria on May 1, 2011 at 3:45 am

    very cool

  466.  #466kaitlyn on May 1, 2011 at 3:46 am

    sorry i’m really hating myself for making my bff angry at me.

  467.  #467Ella on May 1, 2011 at 3:49 am


    I have heard that if you kiss frogs they turn into Princes!


  468.  #468Daria on May 1, 2011 at 3:50 am

    wow fuchkin awesome!

    thank you for introducing me to mood boards

  469.  #469Daria on May 1, 2011 at 3:50 am

    kaitlyn – we can’t “make” anyone angry

    he’s responsible for his own feelings

  470.  #470The Lurker on May 1, 2011 at 3:51 am

    #458 Such stuff happens, that’s not a big “fsck up”. Don’t blame yourself so much. And now better get some sleep°, Kaitlyn. With beautiful dreams!

    °Hope this doesn’t sound too bossy or controlling! Sry.

  471.  #471Daria on May 1, 2011 at 3:51 am

    “False Belief #1

    “I can have control over how people feel about me.”

    Think for a moment whether or not others have control over how you feel about them. Can someone do everything “right” and be “perfect” in their own eyes, yet you don’t enjoy being around them or you don’t feel connected with them?

    Of course!

    Others may influence how you feel about them, but they have no control over how you feel about them. If you are a basically accepting person, then you might like them even if they get angry or withdrawn. If you are generally a judgmental person, then there may be little they can do for you to like them.

    Now turn this around regarding how others feel about you. Since you have no control over whether or not another person is accepting or judgmental, it stands to reason that you also have no control over how they feel about you, regardless of how perfectly loving, open, caring, giving, understanding, handsome, beautiful, or rich you are.”

    Dr. Margaret Paul – Inner Bonding

  472.  #472Daria on May 1, 2011 at 3:54 am

    whats the diff between collages and mood boards

  473.  #473kaitlyn on May 1, 2011 at 3:55 am


    It doesn’t sound like ANY advice. You’re not the one who has to hear the wrath from him because he is blowing up my phone right now and will continue to be angry tmrw. You know, since he’ll be working on 4 hrs sleep. Try giving real advice instead of hippy dippy self-acceptance speeches on this one.

  474.  #474The Lurker on May 1, 2011 at 3:57 am

    #467 Ella, I’ve heard that, too. But somehow it didn’t work out that way yet. I guess I have to complete my quest in pursuit of happiness first before that magic can do the trick!

    But once I really feel like an enchanted prince, I’ll give the magic of kissing another try. In real life, and maybe even in the US.

  475.  #475Daria on May 1, 2011 at 3:58 am

    this friend sounds toxic

  476.  #476Daria on May 1, 2011 at 3:59 am

    Ella’s not in the US though 😉

  477.  #477kaitlyn on May 1, 2011 at 4:01 am


    He’s not toxic. It was selfish of me to even engage in such a convo knowing what hour it was.

  478.  #478The Lurker on May 1, 2011 at 4:01 am

    #473 Kaitlyn, I didn’t really try to give advice, rather show some moral support. Sry if that came through in the totally wrong way. Ok, I will rather shut up now than annoy you with more “hippy dippy” (hehe!) brouhaha.

  479.  #479jenni on May 1, 2011 at 4:02 am

    I would like some help on an issue that is slowly driving me insane!!
    I have a wonderful man who I have been with for 4 months…..in this time he has moved near to me, given me a key to his place, discussed future plans of living together/marriage, he calls me and texts me daily, has introduced me to all his friends, family and his children, wants to include me in the majority of his plans and we get on fantastically!

    I dont rely on him for my happiness, I am independant, confident and love the person I am!
    But…..As in all relationships no one is perfect and there always seems issues that have to rear their ugly heads!!

    In my situation the word is insecurity! He is an insecure person in all aspects of his life (he told me this), however he is very outgoing, very friendly and upfront. I feel part of this is to boost his confidence and gain acceptance from people. Unfortunately the majority of people it comes from are women!

    From the start he has told me he has friends that are women, I cant deny I dont like this but I want to accept him for who he is. I would never want to change anyone I am with, so I am trying to deal with my feelings to accept this attention!
    He hasnt actually been out with any of these women yet but they are constantly asking him when he will catch up with them or meet up for lunch! They are quite flirty on facebook too, but he only sees this as friendly and a laugh.
    We now seem to have created a vicious circle whereas I see the women comment on fb, I feel angry and threatened which leads to an insecure vibe…….I then get defensive, he senses this which in turn makes him more insecure hence his need for more attention from these women!
    I am confused with how to deal with this, and do not want to upset what we have, but feel we are slipping away from each other due to these feelings!

    None of this has been spoken about as I dont quite know how to approach this without coming across as jealous and possesive…..which I am not! Obviously jealousy plays a small part as I feel this emotion stems from fear, which is really how I feel. I am scared this will damage us.
    Can anyone tell me how to deal with these ‘other women’ that keep on and on????

    Finally, I do also think if they were in a relationship they would not do any of this!!!

    I am grateful for any advice xxx

  480.  #480Ella on May 1, 2011 at 4:03 am

    Nope, I am in the UK!


  481.  #481kaitlyn on May 1, 2011 at 4:03 am


    I’m a more practical thinker chick. Moral support is great but it’s not as useful to me as advice.

  482.  #482The Lurker on May 1, 2011 at 4:07 am

    #480 Hello!

  483.  #483kaitlyn on May 1, 2011 at 4:09 am


    So, I take it you have no advice?

  484.  #484Daria on May 1, 2011 at 4:12 am

    kaitlyn – if it was selfish of you (i don’t believe in selfishness), then he could have left

    berating you now is not something i would tolerate from a friend

  485.  #485Daria on May 1, 2011 at 4:13 am

    i would tell my friend… hey this feels bad. i don’t want to be blamed or attacked. i love you and im down to talk to you from a loving place

  486.  #486The Lurker on May 1, 2011 at 4:15 am

    #484 He’s still on the phone? Wow. Well, you prolly already told him it was your fault, you’re sorry, and it was selfish to call him that late. And it would probably backfire if you would reasonably point out that his lenghty monologue shortens the night even more. Since I don’t know shit about your bff, there isn’t much specific advice I can offer. Only thing you can do now is stay on the phone and let him vent. Don’t add anything to this, don’t bring up new issues to the convo or something. Just let him release his steam.
    Sry that I can’t offer better help now.

  487.  #487Daria on May 1, 2011 at 4:16 am

    i would also tell him i dont want to talk anymore right now and go to sleep

    unlike lurker who would stay on the phone!! :0

  488.  #488kaitlyn on May 1, 2011 at 4:17 am

    I didn’t call him. we were in the car finshing up our night as he was dropping me off. but thanks, that’s more advicey. it’s still not gonna put him in a good mood tmrw and we need to be in a good mood to create stuff at work tmrw.

  489.  #489The Lurker on May 1, 2011 at 4:20 am

    #487 Daria, Kaitlyn said she’ll see him early in the morning at work. I don’t know what kind of a guy he is, but if he vents his anger for so long on the phone, he prolly isn’t the type that forgives and forgets easily. So, there’s only a choice between facing his anger now or later in the morning at work. Imho getting it out of the way now is better. But I may be wrong.

  490.  #490Daria on May 1, 2011 at 4:32 am

    Noticing that guy who I was in the phone w today is a version of dman… Still hangs on to ex, talks about other women, wants to be friends

    And is fun and points out good things about me and seems really caring

    Toxic for me, brings diwn my self esteem yet easy to connect

    Aha reminds me of getright man too

  491.  #491Daria on May 1, 2011 at 4:34 am

    Kaitlyn in my experience having a best friend that’s a guy, that I treat like a female friend, is really detrimental to my vibe…

    I have a guybuddy vibe and it sticks around outside the relationship

    When I go all girl, the friend starts liking me or showing the attraction he always had…

  492.  #492Daria on May 1, 2011 at 4:35 am

    It cam work – like oh is my best friend right now – as long as I’m all girl and he treats me guylike… Pays for things. Speaks well to me

  493.  #493Daria on May 1, 2011 at 4:39 am

    Lurker – I don’t think him venting while she feels bad is appropriate

    In the morning, he may have calmed… Although there seems to be a pattern of him putting kaitlyn down and he – my guess, will start it up because of this tradition, it’s the thing to do between them. Both of them are addicted to it. It’s like a kind if glue for their relationship – that’s what I see.

    Ok now I feel bad

    I am analyzing and judging.


    Just feels bad to hear kaitlyn tolerating bad treatment. Felt disturbing to see you what seemed to me attacked also.

  494.  #494Daria on May 1, 2011 at 4:41 am

    A single hit of weed helps my mood and ache when I’m tired.

    Any more in that circumstance and i feel sleepy and it’s counterproductive

  495.  #495The Lurker on May 1, 2011 at 4:47 am

    #493 Yeah, right, Daria. Still, she needs him at work, and this limits her choices now. So, this is only a question of picking the lesser of two evils.
    Btw, I remember Kaitlyn told us he sees himself as an asshole (if that’s the same bff). Well, at least he acknoledges that. Prolly has some other good sides, too, though.

  496.  #496The Lurker on May 1, 2011 at 4:51 am

    #493 Well, “attacked” is too big a word, imho. Obviously Kaitlyn is in a bad mood, understandably so. I’m not that thin skinned. And I can be in a p*ssed off vibe sometimes, too…

  497.  #497Sarah B on May 1, 2011 at 4:56 am

    I thought it was a wonderful little ceremony, eventhough it was way too covered in the media. I agree with a few of the points you brought up about marriage in other parts of the world: wouldn’t it be great if all people in love could experience marriage just for the emotions that hold two people together and not for some other, unpleasant reason like many women unfortunately live with…

  498.  #498Daria on May 1, 2011 at 4:56 am

    Sorry kaitlyn I apologize for judging your situation and you and your friend. Would like to be helpful but I messed up

    Really what I was imaging was about mr and my relationships q guy friends and family relationships

    I know that I no longer tolerate and want to tolerate anything that feels bad.. And when I don’t my self esteem grows

  499.  #499Daria on May 1, 2011 at 4:59 am

    Kaitlyn try bringing him a gift (like weed, or maybe a single shot or doue shot of patron, that’s what I would do to get thru day…

    I don’t want to be attacked… Is a very healing dynamic changer thing to say and then stand for it – feminine

    But the gift is a great idea from a masculine energy place

  500.  #500Rosa on May 1, 2011 at 5:25 am

    Wow Jenni, Thats interesting!

    I am just not sure whose insecurity this post is about.

    You say he is insecure
    You say he needs to flirt and have the admiration of many women because he is insecure.
    You then act more insecure and defensive .
    He then interacts more with the other women.

    ad infinitum….

    Ummmm, sorry but if you LEAN BACK and flex your security muscles by CDing yourself (at least) , not as tat for tit , but so your self esteem sky rockets , and you get to breathe and STOP the cycling..

    And maybe observe this scenario.
    And feel if you are actually HAPPY with a man who needs to flirt and have lots of potential new women around and who flirts with them the moment you get needy ! So you get needier. These are people he hasnt met yet? The reserve list?

    From where I sit you need to fix your insecurity Jenni with CD’ing and at the same time get some clarity about whether its acceptable to you for a man to talk marriage to you but keep a stable on hand as well !!!!

    I would expect that a man who is serious about marriage will shut down his online possibility list and not respond to invitations by other women unless in groups or as a couple etc. Its early days at 4 months and maybe the talk of marriage is to keep you around while at thew same time keeping his options wide open ! I dont know, but something feels off to me.

    Hoping he will just stop this and banish them wont work. Not discussing it wont work.

    Time for a feeling speech as per Roris guidelines , and Lean Back and get busy with your own life and date yourself .


    ” Hey I have been feeling stressed and worried about some things in this relationship. Many things about us together feel fantastic , but I do feel off centre with all these women who keep asking you out. It feels awkward to me to bring this up . It just feels bad for us to talk about future marriage while these women are still in contact and flirting with you and you with them.

    I totally get that you have every right to be sure about what you want from me and marriage is a huge commitment.You need to take as long as you like to be sure of that. Meanwhile it would feel better for me if I keep my options open and the pressure off you by accepting other dates . ”

    Then you do the sexual exclusivity speech etc…

    Other Sirens here are very good at “speeches” . This is just an idea.

  501.  #501Jim on May 1, 2011 at 7:15 am

    469: Daria says:

    kaitlyn – we can’t “make” anyone angry

    he’s responsible for his own feelings

    Hi Daria,
    Long time..

    Pardon my interruption and I didn’t read all the comments pertaining to your 459.

    I look at it like this- We can make someone angry, if a person takes a knife and cuts another, they will surely feel it, be hurt and cut.

    The same goes for feelings even though they are not so visually apparent.

    Of course we are responsible for how we react over time. Though initially a cut is a cut.

    Would you agree?

  502.  #502Queenbee on May 1, 2011 at 7:43 am

    Ella – Thanks! That’s really great. And I hear you about the sloppiness too… I’ve got stuff under control but sometimes feel too uptight with my boundaries. But yeah, no labels – that doesn’t feel good at all.

    After I posted to you, I had new feelings of ‘ex-lover’ come up – stuff to heal… how it was the most emotionally connected sex I ever had… was he my ‘the one’… but his tardiness brought me back to reality. So I feel good just letting these feelings on through 🙂

    Just got out of studio
    Feeling crampy
    No time to workout
    Today is my CD with men at the party in the Japanese apt.
    Very excited… a little nervous

    The host asked me to perform something….
    I’ll decide before I walk out the door what exactly I’m going to play… I hate to say that I wish I didn’t have to… but what the H3ll… I’ve lost the luxury of saying no… so I’m gonna go with the flow and be open… I still don’t feel like it… but maybe it won’t happen.. and if it does I’ll be ready… 🙂

    I’m practicing leaning back, FMs and not talking too much

    Let you know how it goes when I’m back.

    I’ll be home before my carriage turns into a pumpkin.


  503.  #503Turquoise3 on May 1, 2011 at 7:53 am

    Good morning sirens. 🙂

    Lucy, I think you should definitely meet him, and keep your boundaries. I have talked to guys before, had this wonderful vibe and feeling, and then meet them… and they totally aren’t what I thought they’d be. It was so disappointing that I’d imagined this great potential relationship, and then met them, and thought, oh I wouldn’t have even wanted this guy to buy me a drink! Whatever they may be hoping will happen, it doesn’t mean it has to be what does happen. Have other plans for after you meet them. You could meet them for dinner, and then have plans to meet up with friends, or have a date lined up for later.

    Until you’ve met someone in person, you are missing a big piece of the puzzle. How long have you been divorced and how many guys have you dated since then? I know the ex has made some repeat performances… and that can be hard to let go of. But a long distance guy who has a girlfriend that you’ve never met, after 10 years… seems like you put a lot of focus and comparison with other guys, to him, who you haven’t had a relationship with. Just curious if you have really given yourself a chance with any available men?

    If you want me to check him out, next time he tells you he’s going to such and such a place, if I know where that is, I’ll go be a PI and snap some pictures for you 🙂 See what vibe he gives off in person! 🙂

  504.  #504gina on May 1, 2011 at 8:00 am

    whatup Jim! I like your comment…interesting. i do agree.

  505.  #505gina on May 1, 2011 at 8:03 am

    last night he called me shortly after my little sob session, and I didn’t feel like letting him know that I had been all sad cause he was at work and I could hear bustling in the background. He asked if I wanted him to try to call me later, after he stopped to get something to eat after work. I said yes, and he said he’d try to call if it wasn’t too late, and I didn’t hear from him. And it’s not like he did anything bad, it’s just not good.
    I just wish he had made things better before he left. He DID NOT CONTACT ME THE ENTIRE WEEK INCLUDING VALENTINES DAY

  506.  #506gina on May 1, 2011 at 8:12 am

    Speech idea:

    D, things feel much better now that I’m letting anger go and I’ve let you know how sad I’ve felt to be so disconnected from you. I appreciate that you’re staying in contact with me…and yet I still find that I feel really sad about the distance between us. I still feel really angry about the missed opportunity to make things better when we were in the same town, especially that last week. And I can’t think of Valentines day without tearing up. I have so much respect for all the work you’re doing. And I love you more and more for who you’re becoming. But, to take care of me, I just don’t want to be in an imaginary relationship, and I really can’t move forward until the mad/sadness from that last week is somehow healed. What do you think?