Why He Disappeared – Do You Accept the Wrong Men

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You know how I love Evan Marc Katz – I also know how challenging he is – he’s so “in-your-face” – and that’s what I LOVE about him.  He’s just a man.  A regular man.  With all the issues men come with – and he’s just so forthright about it all, he doesn’t hold back, he tells his truth – and you may think his truth is NOT the truth of most men – but it IS, it really is.

It’s sort of getting to hear what a man – nearly ANY man is feeling and thinking behind whatever they’re acting like they’re feeling and thinking.

Here’s a piece of an article he wrote that’s just so true, and so Evan’s style:

You Don’t Attract the Wrong Men. You ACCEPT The Wrong Men

What happens when you find yourself incredibly attracted to a man? Well, there’s the feeling of chemistry and everything that comes along with it – the obsessive highs that come with wanting to be with him, the joy of feeling incredibly connected, and, what you may forget, the willful blindness that allows you to overlook his flaws.

That’s one of the most miraculous things about chemistry: it allows you to focus only on the good and ignore all the bad.

Which is why you can have incredible chemistry and end up in a TERRIBLE relationship, where he doesn’t call you, doesn’t sleep with you, doesn’t compliment
you, doesn’t make you feel safe, and doesn’t commit to you.

But you stick around because of how strong your rare FEELINGS are. You’ve now discovered the real secret to why you’re in dead end relationships:

You don’t attract the wrong men, you accept the wrong men.

If you consistently find yourself in relationships with liars, cheaters, addicts, leeches, or commitmentphobes, your job isn’t to get them to stop lying, cheating,
drinking, mooching or flaking. Your job is to leave.

You’ll never stop attracting the wrong men, but starting now, you can stop ACCEPTING their bad behavior… and save yourself years of heartbreak and pain.

Amen.

I know Evan – and I know he’s on our side…and he’s really a sweetheart. (Even at a dinner table in the middle of a long, sometimes boring networking meeting, he’s fun, funny, sweet, and he keeps on telling his refreshing truth…)

Evan isn’t just putting his own, unique take on everything about relationships – he’s got experience knowing and talking with other men, experience talking with women, with his clients (tons of them) who he’s shepherded through the dating gauntlet starting from having no love to having total, forever love. So – whether you like it or not – he knows what he’s talking about.

Even what he says about his wife and how he came to know he loved her and wanted to marry her, and how happy he is being married and WHY he’s so happy being married sometimes draws upset and offense from his readers – though his wife guest posts for him and loves him completely. He’s pretty fearless about wanting to help women – even if we don’t always like what he says.

His book – Why He Disappeared – is no exception.  It’s straight-talking, shoot-from-the-hip, tough-love and truth from his very experienced (and very smart and insightful) perspective.

The book is going to launch on August 17th (today!) – and you may see a lot of newsletters directing you to it – I just wanted to let you know I have the book, I’ve read it, and it’s very helpful. So – if you’d like to take a look at it…here’s a link (non-affiliate, so I have no stake in this – I just like Evan personally and professionally, and I like the book), and—oh my, I just went to the link – and there’s my recommendation of the book in a big box…so… oh – and I also see there are a bunch of bonuses attached – if you don’t want that package (some pretty good stuff, though, I’m seeing…), there’s a pop up for just the book…well, look for yourself and let me know:

http://www.evanmarckatz.com/products/why-he-disappeared-launch.html

If you get it, let me know how it works for you, and I’ll have Evan show up here and field all your questions and challenges – even if you don’t like what he says, he keeps right on trying to help…and I know what he says is the truth – because MOST men are looking for something that’s really NOT what they want…(just like us…) it’s just an inner pressure…and so, Evan knows this big time in himself, and so it’s just helpful to hear him talk about it and what you can do about it – and what you can’t do about it…

Love, Rori

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1 Comments

  1.  #1Jacqueline on August 20, 2010 at 1:29 pm

    Oh, I LOVE this article, Rori!! It is exactly what I wonder about when I left my toxic but charismatic amazing guy and moved Up to slightly boring but kind. It is a wonderful distinction that I didn’t attract him, I just accepted him. The attraction thing can start to make you feel like a crazy person if you let it, but acceptance? I can take responsibility for that and go from there.

    Thank you bunches!!!
    Jacqueline



  2.  #2Nikita on August 20, 2010 at 1:49 pm

    Mistake #2 on Evan’s link completely resonates with me. I believe this very strongly and it may feel limited to some women but for me this feel liberating.



  3.  #3Daria on August 20, 2010 at 1:55 pm

    my girl is giving me good Rori avice

    i noticed i have been feeling bad that u don’t express romantic interest in me, and i don’t want to hear about your baby mama. what do you think?
    : how about
    : i REALLY don’t want to hear about your baby mama.
    : he’ll be like blah blah attitude
    : and you can be like
    : i don’t like it and it feels terrible to keep talking about it
    : or
    : he’ll say sorry
    : and u can be like
    : thank you, i don’t like it and it feels terrible to keep taking about it.”



  4.  #4Daria on August 20, 2010 at 1:56 pm

    hi,

    i feel glad to hear from you,

    i noticed ive been feeling bad that you dont express romantic interest in me, and I Really don’t want to hear about your baby mama. What do you think?



  5.  #5Daria on August 20, 2010 at 1:59 pm

    oooh… i feel very excited reading Mistake number 1.

    Its Clicking that men don’t care if im financially indepnednt – NV have a cookie – they dont. i choose to believe it

    they want a woman that makes them feel trusted and sexy ok



  6.  #6Daria on August 20, 2010 at 2:02 pm

    •He doesn’t care if you’re cultured and well-traveled and sophisticated about the finer things.

    He doesn’t care if you’re deep, poetic, a good judge of music, a gangsta, honest, loyal, beautiful

    all he cares is that he feels sexy and trusted around you – which happens when you are in femininity

    i feel like im riding a gallopping horse

    i feel lost and whoa and hold on there thought



  7.  #7Daria on August 20, 2010 at 2:04 pm

    i would like to believe the above, but it feels too scary, becuse i dont think i can make a man feel trusted and sexy, because

    i easily get triggered to mistrust and feel shy to express sexual desire, if thats even what makes him feel sexy

    and all i have is my smarts and my “impressive” stuff and beauty honesty loyalty

    help!

    im not a good woman!

    im not good at making men feel trusted and sexy!!

    help



  8.  #8Mercedes on August 20, 2010 at 2:13 pm

    “If you consistently find yourself in relationships with liars, cheaters, addicts, leeches, or commitmentphobes, your job isn’t to get them to stop lying, cheating,
    drinking, mooching or flaking. Your job is to leave.”

    EXACTLY! This is what I did and he changed all by himself. There was no “getting him to change”. I did my job. I wasn’t “constantly” there…I was there with one man, but still…same job and I did it and it was an amazing change in my life.

    I love this! Thanks Rori!

    Much Love,
    Mercedes



  9.  #9Nikita on August 20, 2010 at 2:14 pm

    “I trust you, I just feel uncomfortable doing…..xyz, but I still trust you and enjoy our time together”……

    “wow!, you look hotter than you did last time we went out…..I feel like a total rockstar next to you 🙂 “



  10.  #10bea on August 20, 2010 at 2:54 pm

    Mercedes,

    That is what I’ve done. I’ve left.

    Although I miss him something awful and feel laggy as all get out, I’m accepting every invitation, tackling my bucket list, and putting up an okcupid profile.

    My mother told me that men are like soup. They can look like soup and smell like soup (which soup does long before it’s actually ready), but if you eat it too early it will make you sick. So, I’m putting him on the back burner. I hope he’s ready soon but in the meantime, I’m ordering off the life MENu.

    Thanks Rori. I only wish I’d found you earlier!

    best,
    Bea



  11.  #11Laughing goddess on August 20, 2010 at 3:28 pm

    Woah B, I love your mom’s analogy. Thanks for sharing it.



  12.  #12Laughing goddess on August 20, 2010 at 3:38 pm

    Anyone have any thoughts about how to communicate with LI about this one?

    His energy feels so sweet most of the time but when he gets frustrated about something he gets kinda fiery. He’s an Aries. And it’s not directed towards me but I just don’t feel good being around it. But I also want to respect his masculine energy. But when he gets like that I just want him to go work it out for himself. Go for a run or something. You’re bringing me down dude!

    I don’t want to get pulled out of the vortex just because he does. I wanna hold strong and stay in my own vortex. Is that asking too much?

    Looks like I uncovered an out of date belief here!

    I wanna stay in the vortex regardless of the moods of those around me!



  13.  #13Laughing goddess on August 20, 2010 at 3:41 pm

    I command that I stay in the vortex regardless if the moods of those around me!!!!

    I just learned to command my subconscious to make the desired change from a shamaness at this workshop I took. I feel excited to see if it works.



  14.  #14Laughing goddess on August 20, 2010 at 3:43 pm

    Actually B, it feels good to read your whole post. I sounds like you have a great attitude and are on the path to your happily ever after.



  15.  #15Daria on August 20, 2010 at 4:08 pm

    Laughing Goddess – this is how I command my subconcious right now

    it is called Ask and Receive

    A part of my being already knows __{what i want here} —- . Pause. And that part of my being is willing to inform the rest of me now. It is now doing so (with grace and ease). My mind body and spirit are receiving the information. Information transfer is now complete.

    How do you do yours?



  16.  #16Erika Awakening on August 20, 2010 at 5:30 pm

    Lol … I’m sorry to say this ladies, but I’ve got so much to say about this topic that we might be looking at another 1000 comment post…

    And Rori, the other thread got so long and I wanted to thank YOU for holding space there. I knew the anger would ‘break’ and transform if we just stayed with it, and I feel grateful that you held the space for that to happen. Thank you.

    Today also I thanked and apologized to my ex for teaching me so much about relationships, mostly what not to do lol. He hasn’t responded and that’s okay. I did it for both of us, and no response is necessary.



  17.  #17dorothea on August 20, 2010 at 5:35 pm

    Evan, give us a Rori readers coupon code for a discount! 😀 I am interested in buying your book. It looks like a wise read.



  18.  #18Erika Awakening on August 20, 2010 at 5:58 pm

    Some Sirens were asking for tapping tips on the other thread, and because it’s timely here … I don’t know about you all, but when I just jumped over to Evan’s sales copy and started reading it, I initially felt some fear in my body. This is something intentionally used in sales (not a criticism, just what my copy writer friends tell me) … but it’s also a great exercise. If you tap the acupressure points while reading the sales copy, the fear that gets triggered can be released from your body while reading the page …

    Btw, as I got to the bottom of the page, my fear turned to sheer excitement, because this UNDERSTANDING MEN is so much of what I’m teaching.

    Here is from Evan’s sales copy:

    I’d like to illustrate to you that the women who do best with men are those who truly love men for all that they are.

    Strong. Smart. Sexy. Generous. Thoughtful. Sensitive. Funny.

    Believe it or not, there are LOTS of men out there who are ALL of these things – but they may not be looking for you as you’re looking for them.

    I should know. I was one of those guys. I have no doubt that I was the subject of a few dozen “why did he disappear?” conversations.

    I also know that despite seeming like a player, I was always looking for a relationship, I never wanted to hurt anyone, and would never openly criticize a woman I was dating. I was a genuinely good guy who wanted to settle down and have a family, but went through hundreds of dates who didn’t understand me as a man.

    On paper, there was nothing wrong with these women. Smart, successful, interesting, educated, attractive, sophisticated, ambitious, opinionated – these were the qualities that drew me to them. Yet they were never enough.

    It wasn’t until I met my wife – with two brothers, an ex-husband and a father in the military – that I truly found a woman who understood men, who knew how to make me WANT to commit to her for a lifetime.

    ***************

    This is why it is sooooooo painful for me to hear judgments of men on this site. Veiled judgments are just as awful feeling to me as overt judgments.

    This is why all the comments the other day about PUAs and assumptions about my man and assumptions about our relationship felt sooooo off-putting to me.

    Judgment is the opposite of understanding.

    Evan also talks about trusting men and respecting men.

    Judging men is not trusting OR respecting them.

    Judgment = fear
    Judgment = anger

    Fear and anger are what push men away …

    Trust and respect and understanding are what draw them in …

    This is why I wrote a blog article encouraging women to come to the 21 Convention. You know how many women took me up on that offer?

    Zero.

    Nothing except HBR changed my love life as much as attending MEN’s coaching events. You want to see that men are EXACTLY LIKE US except a different gender polarity? I invite you to consider coming to one of these men’s events and LEARNING ABOUT THEM up close, in person. See them in an environment where THEY are sharing their fears and doubts and vulnerabilities. See them as human beings, not as “enemy images” … like making PUAs into monsters. All those PUAs are still human beings.

    They are good men, and they will commit to a woman who understands them.

    I love men. I feel VERY passionate about this topic!!! <3



  19.  #19Lucy on August 20, 2010 at 6:19 pm

    These are the things from Evan’s link that I would like to know about:

    ……………………….

    You’ll learn how to read a man’s signals from the first date

    You’ll finally know what men think about …the first kiss …. and most importantly, a foolproof way to make sure these “touchy” issues never backfire on you again.

    The big mistake most women make in assuming that the reason he disappeared after a first date is because he’s not attracted to you. In fact, 85% of the time that he disappears, it’s because of something you did on the date! Find out what that is.

    The dozens of things that men do to please you on the first date and the ONE thing you have to do to please them in return!

    What men REALLY think about kissing on a first date and how he feels when you turn the other cheek.

    Do this and every man will want a second date with you.

    10 simple things you can do to make a man feel special on a date so he’ll ask you out again.

    If you seem to only want the men who don’t want you, and the ones who stick around are simply all wrong for you, you’ll discover why that happens and what to do about it.

    ………………………….

    I would especially like to know what I did wrong on my first date with WH — (“85% of the time that he disappears, it’s because of something you did on the date! Find out what that is.”)

    I would also like to know what he means by “turn the other cheek” (“What men REALLY think about kissing on a first date and how he feels when you turn the other cheek.”)



  20.  #20Erika Awakening on August 20, 2010 at 6:27 pm

    I feel curious too, Lucy, I wish there were a video of your date we could watch together.



  21.  #21Lucy on August 20, 2010 at 6:38 pm

    Aw, thanks, Erika.

    I love what you wrote in #18. Maybe what went wrong is that at the end of the date I felt FEAR because he hadn’t said anything about seeing me again. Maybe he was going to, but then that fear came up in me and pushed him away. The fear was ONLY at the End of the 8-9 hours we spent together — I felt free and joyful the rest of the time. 🙁

    I also appreciate what you wrote about fear as a copy writing technique — as a writer, I knew this, but I forgot for a moment when I was experiencing it myself as a reader! Thanks. 🙂



  22.  #22Erika Awakening on August 20, 2010 at 6:44 pm

    All right, on the other thread I mentioned that I would post a conversation I had early today with Vegas Guy.

    The story I’m telling myself about this is “Don’t post it. Some Sirens are going to do nothing but project their own hateful beliefs about men onto your situation, and it’s going to make you doubt yourself and not trust this guy, when your intuition is saying loud and clear TRUST TRUST TRUST.”

    And I’m going to post it anyway. This feels VULNERABLE to me. My request is that everyone please HOLD SPACE. My request is: No judgment, no interpretation, no analysis, and PLEASE no advice. The reason I don’t like advice is that it’s not being present. It’s also unholistic. Nobody here except me knows the whole story (though, if you are curious about the backstory, I did recently write a whole series of blog articles about how Vegas Guy and I met in Vegas in July).

    On the other thread, one Siren was assuming that Vegas Guy is a PUA. He’s not. She was also assuming that Vegas guy and I are engaged. We’re not. He proposed, and I am considering his offer. I told him I felt torn about making such a big decision without spending more time together first. I asked if he was open to an idea, he said yes, and I suggested we spend some time together.

    We agreed to have a trip together to talk about all major issues before making the decision. He had not given me dates for the trip. I was feeling mildly anxious because, despite my best efforts, I allowed some of these ridiculous “judgments” to interfere with my intuition, which is saying TRUST TRUST TRUST.

    So this is the conversation we had:

    Me: I feel a little confused, everything good?

    Him: Yes 🙂

    Me: Ok good 🙂 I’m confused are we doing this trip, this time together

    Him: Yes

    Me: You are leading?

    Him: It is going to be after labor day 🙂 You have a wedding [referring to my brother’s wedding, the reason we couldn’t get together sooner]

    Me: Lol yeah I know I just need to know when cuz of the house and my job. And cuz I’d like to be either fully committed to our relationship or .. not and still open to others

    Him: What do you want

    Me: You lol 🙂 I don’t want to wait. I don’t really want to lead either though. I want to be fully committed or else fully open to all men.

    Him: Until we know for sure fair would be open to all men I have no rights to you 🙁

    Me: Ok well that doesn’t sound very inspiring to me. I don’t like to get excited about things like visits and have no follow through. This has happened a few times now and I don’t like it. [see how I allowed a little bit of fear and judgment to creep in here]

    Him: Is that untrue what I said?

    Me: About which, love? [already less fearful, have moved back into curiosity]

    Him: Until we know for sure fair would be open to all men I have no rights to you 🙁

    Him: Respect remember?

    Me: Yes I remember. I’m noticing when I get scared. And remembering in that moment to touch both our hearts.

    Me: Now I feel sad. Close though. I feel very close to you, your heart.

    Him: Don’t feel sad for us to work we are going to have a real relationship.

    Me: 🙂 thank you

    Him: I don’t say things to try to make you feel good. I say the truth from my soul

    Me: Yeah I feel that 🙂 Every time we talk and our hearts connect, I feel that. And remind myself to trust.

    Me: I feel the euphoria again [fear entirely gone by this point, felt deeply heart connected]

    *****************************************



  23.  #23Erika Awakening on August 20, 2010 at 6:56 pm

    Lucy, will you remind me, do you have any other connection to this guy … does he have your number, do you have his, will you cross paths?

    It sounds like just fear is in the way … not anything you said or did … that resonate with you?



  24.  #24Simply Shannon on August 20, 2010 at 7:01 pm

    Erika: I really appreciate your vulnerability. I feel very inspired by your authenticity. This feels huge to me. Thank you. Sincerely holding space,

    Shannon



  25.  #25Lucy on August 20, 2010 at 7:03 pm

    Wow, Erika. Thank you for being vulnerable and sharing your conversation. <3

    I wish I had requested people to hold space for me — like you requested here — back when I was posting about TN man. "Nobody here except me knows the whole story" — that's how I felt too.

    (p.s I'm NOT comparing Vegas Guy with TN man — I'm just referring to the request.)



  26.  #26Lucy on August 20, 2010 at 7:20 pm

    Erika, yes, we have each other’s numbers — did some texting for awhile before meeting. We connected first on pof, but he said he had been trying to get my attention for months on two other sites. He lives about an hour and a half from me (in another state). We won’t cross paths unless he contacts me.

    It feels good to hear you say that it may not have been anything I said or did — just fear. That may be the case. I am really appreciating all you’ve been writing lately about not judging men, etc. — a part of me wants to have a “sour grapes” attitude toward him, like, “Oh, yeah? You don’t want me? Well good, cuz I don’t want you either!” — but he doesn’t deserve that at all. I believe he is a good, kind man — and when I feel pulled toward “sour grapes,” I know it is just coming from my own vulnerability and fear, and I quickly move my heart back to gentleness toward him.



  27.  #27Rori Raye on August 20, 2010 at 9:02 pm

    Erika, you are so damn lovely and beautiful it chokes me up. Whatever you’re drinking – I want it. Your whole energy is very, very different than 6 months ago – it comes through in your writing, and I’d trust myself in your EFT hands or relationship hands anytime. I trust your trusting. Love, Rori



  28.  #28Jacqueline on August 20, 2010 at 9:06 pm

    Hi, ladies! I was thinking about Daria’s riffing and this topic and cracking myself up with a new topic for my ebook….so these posts fit right in. Lucy, btw, I love your brave journey….and that’s what I was thinking about – the journey! And, Erika I read parts 1-7….great journaling!

    So, I was thinking how hard it was when I was online dating for about 2 years! And how weird some of the guys were, even when they had their reasons, and I gave them plenty of you don’t have to be perfect, just be good enough room. It was such a numbers thing, yet the universe played a huge part in who showed up for me, too. If they don’t show up back around….you know, sometimes it really isn’t you! Guys who’ve been through break ups have a lot of issues to work through, theirs, societies and their family’s concerns, etc. etc.

    Anyway, in the spirit of HUMOR being healing…lol… and following the how to ebook book…I decided I should name my ebook, The Good, The Bad and the Fugly. And there’s absolutely no other book with that name out there…lol….

    I met good guys, bad guys, short guys, skinny guys, tall guys, gorgeous guys, young guys and old guys. Lawyers, engineers, carpenters, laid offers – ooohhh, that’s laid off their jobs, btw! …..anyway, it was therapy in a very odd way. My biggest thing was I didn’t want to waste a lot of time, but didn’t want them to feel like they were on a job interview, either. The prequalifying phone call became very important quickly, as well as giving everyone a chance to tell their story and feel accepted. Even if it was going nowhere for me but please let me get back home!

    It was definitely a learning curve in a new way about guys….and I’m going to be exploring it for awhile now that I’ve realized how much time, energy and just plain work it took to get the result I wanted – and yet, how easily the guy just showed up, too. My nigttime meditation tape says we find love easily when we’re looking for it, it just shows up. I love that….not necessarily my experience, but it’s a very cool belief!

    Anyway, online dating…..can’t live with it, can’t live without it. Smile….

    oh, and Shannon, I’ve enjoyed your being here holding spaces/listening today, too.
    Happy Friday nite!

    Jacqueline



  29.  #29Simply Shannon on August 20, 2010 at 9:13 pm

    Would ya’ll like to hear some weirdness?

    This morning I read Mercedes new blog post. She talked about doing Laughter Yoga in the park. (Great post. You should check out her blog.) Anyhoo, I’m watching TV this evening. National Geographic Amazing. (I’m a rebel without a cause this Friday night.) Would you believe that one of the features on the show was about Laughter Yoga? 😎

    And then tonight I’ve been thinking about Erika and this space thing. I feel a little uncomfortable with the silence. I feel worried that she (me) feels anxious in the silence (because I do). But out of respect for her, I’m actually having to deal with my uncomfortable feelings. Of course I busy myself with Facebook when it gets too much. 🙂 To shorten this story, I’ll just say that I was looking for a bible verse for a friend. I stumbled upon a website called Course of Miracles. I didn’t even realize the two were related.

    That’s weird shit. Seriously.

    I feel happy.



  30.  #30Simply Shannon on August 20, 2010 at 9:17 pm

    Ahhh Jacqueline. Thank you! And thank you for your humor!

    Ok, I’m trying not to do too much of this nervous chatter thing so I’ll stop now.

    I feel comfortable with the silence.

    Oohhhmmm. 🙂



  31.  #31Simply Shannon on August 20, 2010 at 9:19 pm

    Ok, one last thing because I just realized my “weird shit” post didn’t make sense without this reference. Erika teaches a Course In Miracles. This is seriously blowing my mind. <3



  32.  #32Jacqueline on August 20, 2010 at 9:22 pm

    Shannon, wow, synchronicity…and I’m sure others will weigh in on a Course in Miracles. It was taught at Unity here for years, but their view of things is pretty non traditional. I hope you like it, and it takes work to hold the space! smile….we used to do theses exercises where there would be a person in the room specifically to hold the space for the leader.

    Course in Miracles saying: Miracle DO happen.

    I’m hoping for one right now!!

    Today felt very uncertain and distraught for me because my Significant Other is starting a new job next week that he feels good about, and I don’t. Usually my “gut” is right on, too….so I’m hoping that his holding the space for it to be wonderful wins out on this one.

    In this case, it would feel good to be wrong!

    What do you all think? In creating in another’s reality?

    I feel really nervous about this change.
    Thanks,
    J



  33.  #33Erika Awakening on August 20, 2010 at 10:01 pm

    Rori, thank you .. that means a lot coming from you 🙂

    Shannon,

    Miracles happen in empty space.

    “And then tonight I’ve been thinking about Erika and this space thing. I feel a little uncomfortable with the silence. I feel worried that she (me) feels anxious in the silence (because I do). But out of respect for her, I’m actually having to deal with my uncomfortable feelings.”

    Exactly 😉



  34.  #34dorothea on August 20, 2010 at 10:27 pm

    Just got home from my date, which felt deliciously awkward.

    in a good way

    leaning back feels uncomfortable and just plain wrong when you get into the groove of overfunctioning.

    he way stepped up though. even called me a cab and paid for it. we’re pretty young and he’s even younger, so this isn’t typical behavior for guys his age. But it is typical behavior of a man who wants to take care of a particular woman.

    love it.

    I came down my stairs to meet him and he had a cab waiting for us. I just hopped in the cab and next thing you know, we were at the hibachi restaurant. love it. it was my first time doing hibachi and it was hilarious and fun. We ate sushi too and drank sake. Then we went to the river near the restaurant and sat on the bridge. Then we went to the park and got on the tire swing.

    Tomorrow we are stuck with each other for 14+ hours, for he offered to volunteer for my organization at an event ALL DAY LONG. It’s really interesting practicing being feminine and leaning back when you’re the freakin boss, and you have to tell him what to do. It’s actually awesomely fun to find the balance, like a game. I’m actually pretty good at that, as he’s come to volunteer a few times.



  35.  #35dorothea on August 20, 2010 at 10:29 pm

    i love that i just left the date 10 minutes ago, and I am already home thanks to the technology of CABS. Buses/walking take up to an hour.

    i love that i went home, and that i didn’t go upstairs to his place like I usually would. love love love everything about tonight.



  36.  #36dorothea on August 20, 2010 at 10:32 pm

    teehee rori said “so DAMN lovely.”

    rori’s got a friday night potty mouth!!!

    i feel delighted.



  37.  #37janjune on August 20, 2010 at 10:40 pm

    i feel so expanded by the new imformation being shared here and so open to changing and aligning myself differently.

    the new information about judgments and advise and being raised up as well as put down all feels like truth in my spirit.

    i feel anticipation about incorporating these new beliefs into my life and words and behavior and relationships.



  38.  #38janjune on August 20, 2010 at 10:44 pm

    i saw this today
    .
    .
    .
    “WE’RE NOT AHEAD OF OUR TIME
    …JUST EVERYBODY ELSE’S.”



  39.  #39janjune on August 21, 2010 at 12:14 am

    i’m starting to feel a glimmer of understanding about fear moving a situation—
    ….as the energetic component of the situation
    —more or less—

    i feel curious to consciouly work with this concept.

    the holding space concept, too.



  40.  #40Tina on August 21, 2010 at 12:29 am

    last evening I went kayaking, upstream at low tide, why? why? why? I almost gave up twice, I would feel like a failure if I didnt at least reach my goal, so I kept going. The physical work was too much, I was starting to feel hopeless and almost well I did say fck it twice and about to turn back, I drifted down, I said no Adventure Outdoor Goddess Tina Keep going! I did. I know when to give up, I know when to keep going, is it that Im learning to trust myself? or am I just to fcken stubborn and determined to give up. I love my sticktoitiveness attitude also I love Nike’s ad “Just do it” hehe yeah!



  41.  #41Nikita on August 21, 2010 at 12:50 am

    😉

    Swoosh!



  42.  #42Tina on August 21, 2010 at 1:09 am

    Freedom is not free? lol

    Freedom hurts?

    Freedom is hardwork?

    Freedom can stop anytime?

    Now I feel depressed blah I would so do it again, twice so far, it does start to feel easier. I WANT to go again 🙂



  43.  #43Tina on August 21, 2010 at 1:28 am

    Life is where one goes, tina, to temporarily believe in death, fleetingly forget their power, and briefly have the Dickens scared out of them, voluntarily.

    All in the name of adventure.

    You’re bad,
    The Universe



  44.  #44Tina on August 21, 2010 at 1:29 am

    Kind of like jumping out of a perfectly good airplane, huh tina? Times a billion.



  45.  #45Tina on August 21, 2010 at 1:53 am

    Omg! I went shopping for a coat, I tried it on, the sales’ lady was really nice, I wanted something nice for when I go on future trips with eggshell man (dont ask) anyway, she complimented me on how great the coat looked on my blah blah blah, it does look good but yeah i can make a rag look good hehe, then she says after I bought it, its not me, its the jacket , I laughed and said yeah, thanks. she said I look good in black whatever , I feel kinda offended , not really but ya know? its not a magic coat for god sakes, why didnt she just say, you look awesome, I was complimented earlier that day and this lady said, I dont know you but you look really beautiful tonight, I dont know how you normally look but I just wanted to say that. I was wearing my sparkly black sundress 🙂



  46.  #46Tina on August 21, 2010 at 2:04 am

    My son is pissed off at me , because I sent him to his grand mothers house. I said to him, he isnt going to the grad party like come on , its almost sept! he yelled, I yelled, I cried, he cried but he still went to his grandmothers house kicking and screaming. he went to A LOT of parties this summer, kids , I feel angry , I feel worried.



  47.  #47Laughing goddess on August 21, 2010 at 2:06 am

    Tina: I feel smiley picturing you looking beautiful in your sparkling sundress.

    I’m feeling a little sad tonight. Not sure why. I went to a lovely party with LI. My band played there. I rocked out this part I had been struggling with. That felt great. LI is stepping up big time which also feels nice.

    Feeling some sadness though…not really sure why.



  48.  #48Tina on August 21, 2010 at 2:08 am

    He threw is tv dinner out the window while we were driving on our way and almost hit another vehicle behind us, grrrrrrrrr. we got into an other arguement in front of a store, he walked off, i brought him back to the truck, we drove, he’s mad, im mad, grandmother has a headache. she’s having a yardsale tomorrow and wants him to help her. i hope he gets over it soon ugh!



  49.  #49Tina on August 21, 2010 at 2:13 am

    sad and lonely , I feel sad and lonely and I dont know why 🙁 laughing goddess feels sad and lonely and she doesnt know why 🙁

    I feel glad you rocked it out 🙂



  50.  #50Laughing goddess on August 21, 2010 at 2:20 am

    I love men too!

    I feel so grateful for the masculine presence in my life. I didn’t always feel that way. I felt a shift about two years ago when I started learning about feminine and masculine energy. When I read what masculine energy offers, I felt a release. I felt so relieved to know that men want to serve us, they want to be our providers, our supporters. What a treat. My mom was a single mother of five, very strong, very independent. Learning that I could rely on a man, that he wanted to serve me, ached to provide for me, that felt so new.

    Ahhhh, I feel grateful for men.



  51.  #51Tina on August 21, 2010 at 2:28 am

    Laughing Goddess, I didnt always know that, that men want to serve us 🙂 as it should be I suppose.



  52.  #52cin on August 21, 2010 at 4:50 am

    I’m feeling weird about the okcupid post. The annoying part is what the man looks for in the picture. Boobs, legs, hair is odd and sexist to me. If a woman is happy with herself and feels and looks her best, then she will attract the right man. Not the man looking at those 3 body parts. You rarely marry someone because of those features. I don’t think that should have even been in the comments. We are all so attractive in our own way.It isn’t refreshing or geniune and it’s not what it’s all about. It wasn’t helpful for me to read that.



  53.  #53Erika Awakening on August 21, 2010 at 7:02 am

    LG, what you wrote about discovering the beauty of the masculine really resonated with me.

    This morning in the still darkness I am in touch with more sadness. As I’m getting present with it, it has lots of messages. Memories of my mother criticizing my father, and of him not standing up for himself. Very painful, that may be the pain that was touched in me by seeing other Sirens expressing judgments about men.

    A rare day off. This feels like a day for blogging and tapping. I’m feeling like writing about how I’ve been exploring into the Feminine Pain Body these past couple months, an idea that Eckhart Tolle mentioned in the Power of Now. From his teaching, I got the idea to use my menstrual cycle each month as an opportunity to explore feminine pain. Instead of masking the pain with Advil, I’ve been getting present with it and listening to its messages (blogged about this a while back), and each month now I get more messages (which I release with HBR), and each month there is less cramp pain.



  54.  #54Erika Awakening on August 21, 2010 at 7:29 am

    And btw, as I’ve used HBR progressively on my judgments about myself, about men, about women, about God … and so on … this is what happened to my body:

    – the chronic pain in my back, arms, shoulders spontaneously vanished, without medical treatment

    – my menstrual cycle, which used to be very erratic, became almost perfectly regular

    – my skin cleared up

    Judgments are frozen anger. Anger gets turned against the body and destroys it. Releasing anger and judgment out of the energetic system results in spontaneous healing of the body.



  55.  #55Laughing goddess on August 21, 2010 at 8:49 am

    Erika: I really resonate with what you said about memories of your mom criticizing your father. And him not standing up for himself. So much so that I started bawling when I read that as I remembered that happening with my parents as well. And then even more sadness coming up as I remembered that after my parents split, my mom married a man who stood up for himself so much that he would beat the living daylights out of her when she disagreed with him. He would line us kids up and make us watch as he beat her up. And I also remembered feeling confused because my father had an idea of what was going on and I didn’t understand why he didn’t stand up for us either. It felt so bad that he knew what was going on and he let us live with that abusive man for six years. That was by far the most horrible and scary time of my life and I don’t understand why he didn’t rescue my sister and I. He was around, he lived in town, he picked us up every weekend. He really stepped up as much as any divorced father could. But why did he let us live with a complete psychopath. For those six years of my childhood, I lived in fear that I would wake up in the morning and find my mother dead. He threatened to kill me for telling my mom that the younger kids were home alone when o returned from school. He was supposed to be watching the younger kids but he went to the bar instead. When he came home and she confronted him, that was the first time he beat her and threatened to kill me for telling her. I was nine.

    I feel weird revealing all this. I don’t want to bring people down. I feel sad.



  56.  #56Laughing goddess on August 21, 2010 at 8:56 am

    For a long time my idea of men was they either beat you or abandon you.

    I feel happy that I didn’t perpetuate the legacy of being with an abusive man.



  57.  #57Laughing goddess on August 21, 2010 at 9:08 am

    I haven’t been with an abusive man but I have been with plenty of men who abandoned me.

    Or at least that’s the story I’m telling myself.



  58.  #58Simply Shannon on August 21, 2010 at 9:11 am

    LG: Thank you for sharing your story! I feel love, love, love raining down on you. Praying you are feeling it across the airways. You are so brave!

    Sincerely holding space (and you), Shannon



  59.  #59Erika Awakening on August 21, 2010 at 9:11 am

    Wow, LG, I feel in touch with such deep sadness reading that. The cruelty of the pain body. That feels awful.

    I also feel more compassion. I was telling myself a story early in the last thread that it was “impossible to do anything right” with you because it felt like everything was triggering. And now I feel a sense of “wow of course everything feels triggering after experiencing that kind of pain, over and over, for six years.”

    The abuse in my family was mostly emotional but it was devastating, so devastating that I had completely disconnected from my feelings. To heal, I had to go through and get present with literally hundreds of dissociated memories and remove the energetic trauma charge that was stored in my body from experiencing criticism, explosive rage, judgment, shaming, scarcity, guilt, blame, passive aggression, so much toxicity …

    Each memory I did this with removed a “trigger button” so over time I noticed that stuff that once triggered me no longer had any power over me. This felt very liberating and empowering 🙂



  60.  #60Erika Awakening on August 21, 2010 at 9:13 am

    I’m noticing feeling a little worried that what I just said might feel triggering …



  61.  #61Erika Awakening on August 21, 2010 at 9:14 am

    I’m noticing a yearning to stay connected with you in this conversation, LG, and a fear that old triggers could disrupt our connection …



  62.  #62Simply Shannon on August 21, 2010 at 9:16 am

    I love how holding space feels. Emotionally it feels like telling my nasty voices to sit in the corner. I love those nasty voices. It’s forcing me to deal with them and I LOVE them. I see the judgments I’m making. The stories I’m telling myself. When I just pause a second (or in this case a day) to hear those voices instead of just immediately responding to them (re: telling them how wrong they are), they stop being so big and scary. They start getting quiet.

    Finally getting comfortable in my soup.

    I feel fear that my voice sounds a little “out there” right now.

    Sincerely holding space for the discomfort I’m feeling…

    Love, Shannon



  63.  #63BigLuv on August 21, 2010 at 9:19 am

    Me, I luuuv me some Evan Marc Katz.

    Thank you Rori for introducing him on this blog. I bought Why He Disappeared and another one of Evan’s lower-priced products a month or so ago. It is worth the price and I bought my copy even without all the additional bonuses being offered now.

    I am a classic mistake #3 girl. I am working through severe trust issues although I am a woman who has helped raise my younger brothers into the kind of men, women should be ecstatic about, yet the women in their lives don’t get how good they’ve got it! GRRRRRRRRRRRR.

    Evan is speaking for my brothers who are “nice” guys and women are busy ignoring them in favor of the “bad boys” whom they feel “tons of chemistry” with. “Bad boys” do two things in my presence—they run like heck because they know they can’t control me or they bow out because they know they aren’t willing to step up to the plate.

    Evan tells the truth.

    I like what Ellen Kreidman says in her Old School relationship book, Light His Fire.

    “From now on there will only be praise, hugs, and kisses for telling the truth.”

    Peace,

    BL-



  64.  #64Erika Awakening on August 21, 2010 at 9:23 am

    Now I feel more compassion for my mom, too, because it was “impossible to do anything right” around her. And now I see that she was probably hair triggered because of the pain she endured being the daughter of an alcoholic. And I’m crying to think of her pain and why she was so cruel, because she must have been in torture inside herself.



  65.  #65Erika Awakening on August 21, 2010 at 9:24 am

    Crying and tapping for my mom …



  66.  #66Erika Awakening on August 21, 2010 at 9:27 am

    And I don’t know much about my grandmother’s childhood, but she must have been in a lot of pain to be an alcoholic, so now my compassion is spreading up the female lineage, and I’m tapping for Grandma …



  67.  #67BigLuv on August 21, 2010 at 9:28 am

    And I really appreciated Erika Awakening’s request to hold the space regarding her exchange with her LI. That is some trust in action right there by defining what is wanted and asking for it openly.

    I enjoyed Laughing Goddess and Daria talking about commanding the subconscious so one could stay in the vortex totally good stuff!

    I command that I am ready to be loved, honored, and cherished by the man who is perfect for me. YESSSSSS!

    Peace,

    BL-



  68.  #68Laughing goddess on August 21, 2010 at 9:31 am

    SS: i do feel loved and held and I don’t think you sound “out there at all”

    Erika: I did feel a little bit triggered by what you said but mostly not. Part of the way I interpreted your words is there’s something wrong with me because I get so easily triggered and even though it’s understandable that I would be easily triggered after that experience, there’s still something wrong with me for being easily triggered by you. I know that’s not what you said, it’s just what I interpreted when I heard it through my filter.

    I really appreciate you for holding space for me. I really do.



  69.  #69Sherry on August 21, 2010 at 9:34 am

    I had a very deep yet confusing time with my fav CD last night. I am processing a lot of the feelings that were shared about his past. I have never asked about his past because I believe that what has happened before me is what has brought him to me in the present… I’m trying to live in the now. I realize that my past shapes who I am today therefore making it significant to the now. I am giving his past the same consideration and trying to apply it to the present.

    I have a question for any and all who would be so kind as to give their insight… I have read a few different relationship coach’s work and all talk about a man’s commitment timeline. Rori has alluded to it on this blog also. How is it different for a man?



  70.  #70Laughing goddess on August 21, 2010 at 9:39 am

    And I welcome your thoughts



  71.  #71Erika Awakening on August 21, 2010 at 9:45 am

    I feel a yearning for other Goddesses to express, if they feel like it, what kind of feedback they enjoy receiving, and which kind of feedback feels unhelpful to them. I feel a yearning to offer what feels good and helpful. Including if that means silence.

    LG, I appreciate you being open with me about how you heard what I said, and that you didn’t assume I was saying there was something wrong with you.

    I said I felt worried it was triggering because I felt a closing in our connection, a little bit of a shut down, after I posted.

    Now I feel a sharp twinge in my middle lower back, which is usually a sensor for anger. It’s still there, it has something it wants to say.

    I feel curious.



  72.  #72Laughing goddess on August 21, 2010 at 9:54 am

    And now I’m with a man who is neither an abuser nor an abandoner. And I find myself sometimes feeling bored and feeling irritable with certain quirks that he has. And it feels best right now to stick with him and observe the feelings and resistance that comes up with being with a good man.

    And I am finding myself feeling attracted to another man in my life who actually reminds me a little bit of my stepfather. Not his personality so much. I don’t get the sense that he is the abusing type. But something about his physical characteristics reminds me of my stepdad and I feel super freaked out about that.



  73.  #73Laughing goddess on August 21, 2010 at 10:03 am

    Erika: Thats interesting to me that you felt a little bit of a closing after that post because that was the first time that I had felt triggered by you recently. Before that I wasn’t feeling triggered at all by what you were writing since things shifted yesterday…or the night before…I don’t remember exactly.

    I appreciate that you welcome feedback and I really don’t think you said anything wrong. I recognize that was my interpretation of your words but I can see where it would be helpful to know that it was somewhat triggering because I know you are wanting to find a way to communicate your message in a way that people can receive.



  74.  #74Erika Awakening on August 21, 2010 at 10:08 am

    Yes, thank you, LG.

    I am feeling such a yearning for all of us to go into these moments of shut down and be present with them. That’s what I’m doing. I want to open them back up again because that’s how men reach us.

    I feel I’ve cleared more of my triggers with men than I have with women. It’s very rare these days that a man shuts down with me. It happens occasionally.

    I feel drawn to these moments of shut down. I used to run away from them. Now I want to go inside them, kind of like a deep tissue masseuse massaging a really hard knot in a muscle … I want to loosen the adhesion so the knot goes away and the trigger is gone.

    Oh, something just released. Big sigh.



  75.  #75Laughing goddess on August 21, 2010 at 10:10 am

    And I think that the reason that I only got mildly triggered and not to the point of freaking out is that behind your words I got the feeling of genuine care and concern and wanting to help out.



  76.  #76Laughing goddess on August 21, 2010 at 10:24 am

    I feeling very intrigued by this Erika…your yearning for feedback about your words come across. And I’m imaging that you want feedback but you don’t want to be made wrong for what you are saying.

    And I’m imagining that in your line of work you are encountering people with pain and sadness and that it’s helpful for you to understand how certain triggers color the way people interpret your words.

    For me, I’m guessing I have an underlying belief that I am wrong. I am wrong for saying something that started the cycle of my mom being beaten. So it’s possible that I am going to interpret your words as confirming that belief about myself which a part of me wants to believe isn’t true.

    Okay, I feel at a loss for words here so I’ll stop now. I feel curious if any of this resonates.



  77.  #77Laughing goddess on August 21, 2010 at 10:34 am

    Argh I feel so frustrated when I’m writing a post and during that someone else posts something and then when my post comes up after theirs, it’s seems a little out of context. When that happens I feel worried that I am going to look dumb or incoherent. And I wish I could let that worry go because it feels ick!



  78.  #78janjune on August 21, 2010 at 10:38 am

    tina

    i feel super! inspired by your #40!

    goddes goes the distance, challenging herself and her surroundings!

    yaaaaay!



  79.  #79gidget on August 21, 2010 at 10:56 am

    This sounds so insane to me. all this over analyzing of “males”. i feel like i am missing something here! i have never had an issue with getting along with men or having them want a relationship so on and so on. And it is because i treat men just like i treat women. Its no mystery. men are the same as women, just a different gender. Some are not a good match for you (so what? move on) and some are. Just treat them as human beings and stop trying to “figure them out”. Figure yourself out…why are you acting so desperate? if your single, have some fun. date for the sake of dating, not to find a mate. When you approach things with this attitude, you can recognize when someone is an asshole (regardless of how cute they are) and when someone is worth developing a friendship with. and… you’ll have sooo much fun!



  80.  #80Simply Shannon on August 21, 2010 at 11:03 am

    Erika mentioning deep tissue massage? I’ve been looking into that specifically around an issue that I’ve discussed with Erika (which can remain under cover please Erika 😉 ). I literally have the listing of deep tissue massage therapists open in one of my internet windows right this second. Weirder and weirder.

    Are ya’ll really the voices inside my head?

    More and more awesome. I feel deeply connected.

    And now my deeply connected self feels desire to clean my house. Anyone else channeling that emotion?

    Love ya’ll and praying for more connectedness and weirdness. Shannon



  81.  #81Erika Awakening on August 21, 2010 at 11:31 am

    Hey SS,

    Thanks for sharing, I love synchronicity, it makes me feel like a greater intelligence is with us. 🙂

    When I’m working with people, I encourage them to combine their HBR work with deep body work like massage, breathwork, and White Tiger Tantra (which I’ll write about later today on my blog). HBR is mostly a mind into body approach to healing, and it works synergistically with body into mind approaches because deep body work dredges icky beliefs out of the subconscious mind to conscious awareness to be cleared.



  82.  #82Erika Awakening on August 21, 2010 at 11:35 am

    LG,

    Would it help to know that I’ve also experienced the cross-posting thing, and so in my holistic way of looking at things, I’m aware of that when I read people’s posts …

    “I feeling very intrigued by this Erika…your yearning for feedback about your words come across. And I’m imaging that you want feedback but you don’t want to be made wrong for what you are saying.

    And I’m imagining that in your line of work you are encountering people with pain and sadness and that it’s helpful for you to understand how certain triggers color the way people interpret your words.

    For me, I’m guessing I have an underlying belief that I am wrong. I am wrong for saying something that started the cycle of my mom being beaten. So it’s possible that I am going to interpret your words as confirming that belief about myself which a part of me wants to believe isn’t true.

    Okay, I feel at a loss for words here so I’ll stop now. I feel curious if any of this resonates.”

    Yes, that resonates so much, thank you. It’s so thrilling to feel heard 🙂 And yes, I hear behind the triggering this belief that “something is wrong with me,” “I’m guilty,” “I’m going to be punished,” and those beliefs feel painful to me, and I know they are not true even though they feel true, and I *yearn* with all my heart to have them erased and for you to feel the joy of no longer believing those things.

    And that is a message that I want to communicate while also respecting your dignity, your equality, and your right to choose for yourself the best path of healing for you.



  83.  #83Lucy on August 21, 2010 at 11:38 am

    Erika, I want to be able to tell you what kind of feedback I like, but I’m not exactly sure myself. Anything that judges me or the people I’m writing about does not feel helpful to me. Most (if not all) of the feedback you have given me personally feels helpful.



  84.  #84Lucy on August 21, 2010 at 11:44 am

    I feel so frustrated and depressed about WH. I don’t know how to let go of wanting him. 🙁

    26 (formerly known as 25) has been texting me all day — he has been pursuing me for almost a year — and I wish so much it was WH doing that instead of 26.



  85.  #85Rori Raye on August 21, 2010 at 11:54 am

    gidget – Welcome – and I applaud your success – and at the same time wonder why you found me? Is there anything I can help you with? Some of us are lucky (like you) to have a natural “whatever” to their personalities – and yet most of us – especially the women who tend to find me and – I think, heroically – work things out for themselves here have backgrounds that include heavy traumas, subconscious patterns that continually work hard to drag us down, and have spent our lives fighting impulses and instincts and patterns we’ve been taught and experienced that do not serve us. And – totally – you have the gist of everything I’m about – you’re talking about Circular Dating – and I hope you’ll come back and share more with us. If you’ve got this nailed, we want to hear the HOW and the details. Love, Rori



  86.  #86Rori Raye on August 21, 2010 at 12:02 pm

    Wow – Erika and Lucy – how amazing this dialogue is – I’m going to jump off and write about what it makes me feel…Love, Rori



  87.  #87Lucy on August 21, 2010 at 12:03 pm

    Rori, I feel confused about this:

    “And it is because i treat men just like i treat women.”

    I thought we were NOT supposed to treat men just like we treat women.

    If I were to treat WH like I treat women, I would ask him if he wants to get together for lunch next week.

    I do feel confused.



  88.  #88JOHN WRIGHT on August 21, 2010 at 12:56 pm

    Yes can you help me keep my girl friend? We are
    talking on emails and yahoo messenger and I want
    to do my best to keep her happy and in love with
    me.
    Next month she is supposed to get here. What I
    want to do is learn how to keep her love for me
    strong. I know you give advice for women, do you
    also give advice for men? Most men are stupid when
    it comes to females.
    Most mens information on keeping women happy
    is pure crap. I feel you are very smart and can help
    me learn what I need to know to make and keep my
    fiance happy. Thanks John Wright



  89.  #89Jacqueline on August 21, 2010 at 1:36 pm

    Wow oh WOW, TINA & LG….I was getting a lot of sadness last nite too….very weird how the feelings can bounce around the net!

    @ Laughing Goddess – YOU ROCK?!!!! 2 Cool!!! I knew you had a different voice to you – go grrrrlllll!

    @Tina, I bow to your amazing use of wordplay on post #43, and I humbly ask you permission to incorporate some of it into my email signature – it is GENIUS!!!!

    @Janjune….I”m loving your koan like words, too – it feels really intriquing and cool. If you check holding space on google there’s pages of people trying to interpret/write about what it means. I found the term in the 80’s from the ever so controversial est training….

    Happy Saturday to all, joyful and grateful,

    J



  90.  #90Sherry on August 21, 2010 at 1:38 pm

    Erika, I want feedback that shares a personal journey, beliefs, or feelings. I feel we are all on our own path – all of which are different yet the same. I’m looking for something that resonates within me that I can apply to my situation.

    Sometimes, my questions are just general though RE: #69. In those cases I’m just looking for knowledge on a particular subject I have missed.

    I would like to say that although the other thread became something in and of itself, I really enjoyed reading your process. I think we all have something to teach 🙂



  91.  #91Jacqueline on August 21, 2010 at 1:45 pm

    @ Shannon…..after any massage, esp. deep tissue you need to drink a lot of water – I started drinking a gallon a day in ’96 and still do and maybe bathe with red vinegar for muscle soreness. It brings up stored body emotions – well, kind of like the mind stores the emtions it can’t handle in the body – always….

    and physically it moves all the lactic acid in your muscles into your blood stream, so if you don’t move it out through using the bathroom, your skin, etc….it goes right back.

    Lots of people cry spontaneously during bodywork and stuff, too…

    Laughing Goddess- I feel very happy for you even further reading what you wrote about abandoning and abusing…..our history does not define us, it “grows” us, and you’ve obviously grown!!!

    xoxo,
    J



  92.  #92Jacqueline on August 21, 2010 at 1:48 pm

    Hi, Sherry….that’s what I would’ve wrote, too…love it. Thanks!



  93.  #93Jacqueline on August 21, 2010 at 1:50 pm

    Okay, I’m gonna go run errands and stop this…but like the third entry for holding space on google says this:

    “The spirit of the Ayahuasca plant was to reveal to me in further visions the true dimensions of the cosmic joke,”

    Ayahuasca makes you throw up and stuff..but then you get the cosmic joke? it’s pretty poisionous, but I have always wanted to meet the Shaman I’ve heard of who uses it; but in keeping with my laughing day, I found that that under holding space was pretty lol funny!



  94.  #94Laughing goddess on August 21, 2010 at 2:03 pm

    Erika: I am imagining that it might feel frustrating to witness someone in pain who has resistance to what you believe with all your heart would help them.

    I feel curious about my resistance and I think part of it is because I don’t want to depend on someone else for me healing. I feel certain that I have lots of limiting beliefs that I would like to release and I feel so much more excited about finding a way to do it myself. I don’t want to have to run to someone for help every time something comes up. And I also know that I have a strong healing ability myself.

    I feel inspired to share this because I’m hoping it might help you to understand where some of the resistance you encounter comes from and also because I am curious to hear your thoughts on this.

    I’m also wondering if once some major trauma is let go of with HBR or something like that, a person finds it easier to release some of the easier limiting beliefs on their own?

    I just really don’t feel good about depending on someone else for all of my healing. What if something comes up and the healer is booked a week or two out. My fear is that I would have to suffer through it until the healer has time.



  95.  #95Erika Awakening on August 21, 2010 at 2:33 pm

    Hi LG,

    Wow, I really appreciate you sharing that with me … that feels very revealing, and vulnerable, and I feel some trust between us, an opening.

    And I feel very conscious of intuition here, conscious of possible skepticism of any answer I would give as “selling,” when intuition is loud and clear right now to me to put aside selling entirely and focus on pure connection.

    As I read your post, I feel some stiffness in my back, feels like openness and skepticism mixed together … I hear what sounds like fear of depending on other people, echoes of past fear perhaps, when it was not safe to rely on anyone.

    And I want to express that my intention for HBR is to get people un-dependent on outside advice. Part of my frustration on that last thread, when I talked about not liking advice and about going round and round in feeling message circles, is that I believe going to external authorities for advice works against listening to your intuition. I believe when people get in the cycle of constantly asking others “what they think,” they become more and more unsure of their internal guidance.

    Intuition is our inner guidance system, and it is always right. Sometimes it is not heard and sometimes it is brushed aside, but when we train ourselves to listen to it, it provides an absolutely perfect and reliable guide at all times. There will be no further worrying about “what to do” and “what to say” because words and actions will just come, and they will feel effortless.

    All of HBR is designed to get people tuned into their intuition, and to allow intuition to take over for them so that they will no longer need me. That guy I quoted on the last thread doesn’t come to me for sessions anymore because he has already attained from our work together what he wanted. He came to me with a belief that he was “not good enough” that he couldn’t get rid of despite many thousands of dollars and many years of coaching. He left me several months later not only feeling good enough, but with unbreakable inner confidence and happiness. He listens to his own inner guidance now. We are complete, at least for now, and to me, that is the finest accomplishment a coach can have.

    So … if I can post on forums … and even if most of the people I touch there never work with me personally … if I can teach them even a little bit to listen to their intuition, even just a little more … if I can teach them to stop listening to outside advice and start trusting that guidance … then I have done more good in a day than I probably did in all of my past lifetimes combined.

    Does that resonate with you?

    – Erika



  96.  #96Nikita on August 21, 2010 at 2:47 pm

    Yayyy! A Gidget!!! I loved Gidget and was huts googling the show two days ago, welcome 🙂



  97.  #97Jennifer on August 21, 2010 at 2:57 pm

    Liking men…
    They scare the CRAP outta me.
    They really do.
    Really.
    One guy on Ok cupid says I look damn fine..and he likes canadian women cause we seem so smart to him.
    He riffs about alpha males and beta males in his profile.
    He says women want sappy beta males to raise thier children but want to sleep with alpa males.
    I said I felt this was kinda true…lots of women choose what looks like alpha males
    He says he wants to meet me in toronto..he’s from NY state.
    I feel afraid.
    I don’t wanna and am not gonna
    Do I feel this way cause he’s alpha?
    Is he alpha?
    He looks good on paper… he thinks I’m hot.
    My inner voice says NO
    Cause I’m afraid of men? Or he’s red-flag-able?
    I dunno
    Men scare the crap outta me.



  98.  #98Daria on August 21, 2010 at 3:02 pm

    I attempted to have that conversation with dboy when he called.

    I feel kinda concerned that I shut down men who are calling me… by holding on to what i want maybe? I feel like my energy is “hard” and tense a bit… and that feels discouraging

    i feel awful and mad – as soon as i say mad i feel frowny face and i feel my energy go GRRRR — i feel afraid of this in front of a man — it feels closed!

    i feel resentful and bad that i put myself in a situation to be sleeping with a man that is not pursuing me romantically and says he wants to be friends. i don’t want that.

    should i add that i care about him?

    the next thing that comes up is fear that he will leave, feeling rejected and like all i carea bobut is myself

    All i care about is myself – i hear this accusation in my mind from men’s energies, and i hear them questioning to see if this is true, and i give the flip responses that make it appear that its true while knowing that deep inside i am very caring

    and i feel concerned about this

    i feel guilty

    i feel afraid and unsure

    ugh

    last nite the man i was with – who i went to his house to meet him for the first time — i feel like rolling my eyse at myself — apparently im feeling judgemental and angry at myself

    he really liked me it seemed, and kept asking for my heart, even when i was leaving.

    but he didnt kiss me, he says he doesnt really kiss girls often – this has come up with the last 3 men!!!

    I realize this is something they learn to “protect” themselves from getting “cooties” ok judgement

    because they dont want to kiss girls that sleep with many men or go down on many men…

    and i feel bad

    like i dont want to be judged that way!

    ugh

    and then it feels bad to have a man escalate phyisically and didnt kiss me -! again last 3 times!

    this time i took a big baby step and talked about it

    i said

    Big breath: it feels bad to be with a man that doesn’t kiss me

    etc

    anyway he Still didnt kiss me

    and now i feel kinda unsure and bad, i feel like “getting back at him” ugh …. wait till he sees that im not down to go see him again, he’ll be heartbroken

    ha!

    and that feels confusing and i really just want this healed

    i feel bad

    i always felt SMUG – other side of the coin – that growing up i didn’t have men who didn’t want to kiss me or eat me out — they were throwing themselves at me mostly, even for their first time doing so

    and i heard stories of other girls dealing with that, and i felt Better than

    and now im dealing with it, and it feels bad, i feel like oh no what happend? Im no longer innocent or attractive or inspire cleanliness and safety?

    this feels bad

    i love my feelings

    i WANT to feel secure that i am clean, kind of hearts

    i feel guilty and afraid of myself , i feel like im a ‘player’ and ‘heartbreaker” now, that men shouldnt trust me with their heart

    because im not gonna give them exclusivity, and sooner or later they are gonna be very hurt

    (and leave me – like Security)

    this feels bad

    i feel glad to get these familiar thoughts out

    i want this healed

    thank you



  99.  #99Daria on August 21, 2010 at 3:05 pm

    like when a man is pursuing me – i think, poor you, don’t you know i wont be exclusive with you, unless i get married, and thats not likely to be you… youre gonna get your lil heartbroken –

    and i feel bad about myself

    🙁

    any ideas or inspirations?



  100.  #100Daria on August 21, 2010 at 3:29 pm

    one benefit of a black eye is to have a Make-up Goddess pull out her tools after a few whole YEARS off.

    I could make a beatup rhianna look like jes*us

    black eye who?

    step 1. apply white eye pencil over bruises, feathery strokes… make sure to apply around, and blend with finger

    step 2. apply bronzer on top of white eye pencil – blend with brush and finger

    step 3 . not even needed!! — concealer… ive only done step 1 and 2 and already looks flawless



  101.  #101Renee on August 21, 2010 at 3:41 pm

    Jennifer — I’m curious why you’re not into the guy whom you say looks good on paper but you’re feelin resistance towards. Do you feel like maybe because he’s an alpha male, he has the power to reject you? I’m projecting a bit here…I tend to be drawn to alpha males and then things don’t work out and I feel rejected, even if my behavior is the main reason things went south…beta men always want to be with me long term, but as soon as I get the notion that they’re “beta” men, I become less interested…does that happen to you too?

    Or could it be that you feel somewhat offended by what he wrote in his riff? You’ve said your inner voice is telling you “No!”, but you haven’t said what you’re feeling…what do you think that is?



  102.  #102Daria on August 21, 2010 at 3:55 pm

    for my dboy situation, rori said in a past post:

    If you decide to see him, and you’re NOT feeling good about it, but you can’t put your finger on it exactly (you can’t tell whether you feel uncomfortable because of his stuff or because of your own stuff), just don’t let yourself hang with him if you start to feel yourself being “used” in some way as a “stepping stone” for him to get over his wife and get out into the world.

    Don’t pretend, don’t be “cool” if you don’t FEEL cool, and don’t make idle conversation or allow it to be superficial.

    ok. I don’t want to make idle conversation or allow it to be superficial… ACK that feels scary…

    he always starts off with idle conversation… i DO feel im being used as a stepping stone

    ick ack ick

    blah

    i feel afraid of HOW to not allow it to be superficial

    by sticking to my feelings the whole time

    feels scary

    thank you

    hes already “acting up”

    my phone hung up on him in our convo and i get a voicemail that says

    “that was so wrong, im gonna let you figure your life out”

    well gee thanks, especially when i just told you i dont want to be sexual and be friends. hehe



  103.  #103Renee on August 21, 2010 at 4:03 pm

    CDing myself tonight and am feeling good about it…have been out with cougar man the past 3 nights and he would really like to see me again tonight, but I just want some peace and quiet at home.

    This guy’s definitely an “alpha” male, but I’m not intimidated or afraid he’s going to leave me, which is probably the very reason he’s so into me (that and the fact that he thinks I have another date tonight…I just told him I “had plans”…my plans are to relax, watch a movie and maybe catch up a little on this blog, lol).

    Now that I’ve got him “bagged” so to speak, I’m finding I’m unsure how interested I am in him…he’s moderately attractive, but not in great shape and the last guy I dated owned his own business AND had worked occasionally as a fitness model…he was THAT good looking, so I guess I’m comparing them and finding him lacking in that department.

    On the other hand, he seems genuinely into me and wants to make me happy, which is nice…my guy pal whom I talk to sometimes about my dating life says he thinks I’m using this guy because I’m not sure I’m that into him yet I’m continuing to see him. I’m feeling selfish and mean for leading him on by continuing to see him when I’m really focused on getting to know Blondie right now (we’re supposed to talk later tonight after his daughter’s are in bed). He’s a hottie and is definitely an alpha male, but he’s triggering me a little cause my judgement is that it’s alpha males who use and abandon women. Now my voice is telling me “only if you let them”, which seems like it’s my fault if I feel I’ve been used and abandoned…kind of confused now.

    Maybe I just never want what I have or want what I can’t have?

    Indy guy called today and I talked to him about the fact that he has been “busy” with his schedule lately and I haven’t seen him in 2 weeks…he tells me he’s interested in me and, reading between the lines, he can’t be dating anyone else, but he lives 3 hours away and basically hasn’t “found” the time to see me lately…he said after the next 2 wknds (he has a wedding and some other events coming up) that he’ll definitely be able to see me then…I told him that when I spend time with him, I feel there’s a connection there, but when I don’t see him for a while, it feels like we lose our momentum.

    I told him most guys, if they’re really interested in a girl, figure out a way to find the time to see them…I told him I don’t want to pressure you to see me, but I’m also curious about the potential we have. I said I was keeping all my options open right now and I didn’t know what would happen with whom, but that if I got carried away with the momentum of a different relationship, I would be curious whether he and I would have had some potential.
    That seemed to get his attention…he knows I have other men asking me out, but I don’t know that he thought (much anyway) about the fact that someone else could swoop in and scoop me up. He asked if the other guys I’m seeing are closer and I told him 2 were in my city and one was 1.5 hours away…then I told him a little bit of a lie, and I’m not sure why I did this…I told him I was making a consious effort to not let myself rush into anything so I wasn’t see anyone like 2 or 3 nights in a row, but still, a lot can happen in the dating world in a week or two.

    Why did I sit there and lie to him about not seeing someone super often when, in fact, I’ve been out with cougar man 3 nights in a row…it was because I wanted to make sure he knew I was still “available” and I don’t like that I did that…I had told him earlier that obviously I wasn’t serious about any of the other men I was dating as of this moment or I wouldn’t be sitting here discussing the getting together with him, but why didn’t I just leave it at that? I also implied I hadn’t had sex in a while (he made a comment about that and I agreed)…I guess I want him to know I’m a “good girl” who’s not out there sleeping around when the truth is, since he’s not stepping up, it’s none of his frickin business if I AM sleeping with someone!

    I feel angry at myself for seeking his approval…he’s not stepping up the way I’d prefer (the way cougar man and Blondie are), so it’s triggering me to try to “win him over”…grrrr…this is the type of behavior that got me into trouble with men in the first place!

    I’m going to process this a while…it helps to write it out to you guys…comments welcome.



  104.  #104Renee on August 21, 2010 at 4:15 pm

    Daria — so what did you say to him?



  105.  #105Erika Awakening on August 21, 2010 at 4:25 pm

    I just posted a new blog article on my site that includes about the power of sadness and the White Tiger Tantra (G-spot squirting orgasms) and healing the collective Feminine Pain Body.

    If anyone feels like checking it out, I’d be grateful for your responses in the comments section.

    Right now my mind feels overchurned and going to rest for a while. Feeling very connected here over the past day 🙂



  106.  #106Jason Miller on August 21, 2010 at 5:01 pm

    Erika told me about this thread and suggested I chime in. I’ve posted comments on Rori’s blog before a long time ago. I hope my comments help clear some of the confusion. Not too many dudes around here. 🙂

    “And it is because i treat men just like i treat women.”
    #79 Gidget
    #87 Lucy

    Gidget makes a good point about over-analyzing men. When I have coached men around dating issues in the past, much of their problem has to do with “being in their heads” too much. They are thinking too much and not feeling their masculinity. They disassociate from their bodies to prevent them from feeling and being in the moment. Women do this too at the expense of cutting themselves off from their femininity, intuition, and natural power. Anything a woman can do to ground herself and connect with her own body will make her more attractive and empowered to make good decisions for herself.

    Now, this is only half of the equation. The modern man and woman must re-learn courtship strategies that have been core to our species since we walked upright on two legs. The industrial revolution, equal rights movement of the 60’s, and outrageous advances in technology have interfered dramatically with our ability to connect and commit in meaningful ways. Our culture changes at internet speeds now. We have blown everything up and now we’re totally lost and confused. We have to recreate everything in a whole new way.

    Here’s the basic courtship strategy for the woman who wants to attract a man who primarily operates in his masculine energy. Put yourself out there and flirt. Present your feminine side first in all social situations. Be girly. Men will approach. Your job is to screen them to see how grounded they are in their masculinity and ability to commit, among other traits. Test their leading abilities and if they fail, discard them. You are never obligated to proceed farther with any man you don’t want to. And you can test them forever if you want to. Keep your boundaries and values INTACT. These are the things you should not compromise. But don’t be uncompromising toward the man in front of you. He’s a human being too. Appreciate him for who he is even if he’s not the one for you. Erika teaches empathy and she’s right about how effective it is. We’ve forgotten it as a culture.

    One thing you should know about Erika. She is the ONLY woman I know who is fully engaged in this strategy. She is congruently feminine in her relationships with men. All other women I know are mixing up their masculine and feminine energy in some way and creating unsatisfactory results. Some of you have mentioned these behaviors already: interviewing men on dates, initiating contact with them to keep things moving, leading when you should be seeing if the man steps up to lead, etc. You’re thinking too much and you’re trying to control the outcome using your head, your logical mind, your ego, YOUR MASCULINE SIDE!! Let the man do that and see what happens. Stay connected to yourself and rely on your intuition more. It’s in there.



  107.  #107Nikita on August 21, 2010 at 6:20 pm

    KSoftly,

    Wow, glad you’re ok now.



  108.  #108Jacqueline on August 21, 2010 at 6:20 pm

    OMGosh, Knocksoftly!!!! Wow, oh wow….maybe we were all there with you? something was totally resonating on the board! I’m soooooo sorry to hear that – I am claustophobic and it’s one of my biggest fears in life – the back of a police car!

    I did spend one night in protective custody @ Sturgis….lol….Daria, you would love that place, and yeah, someone tried to start a fight with me in their nice clean jail….and one look at me had her turning around and shutting up. Rage is scary powerful, and makes you loose all sense of consequences.

    I am sorry about your grandmother, too, both my parents were gone by the time I was 36 and I have felt very alone….but never really abandoned.

    Big hug,
    J



  109.  #109joan on August 21, 2010 at 6:22 pm

    Lucy, re #87

    From what I’ve read throughout this blog, you certainly can call WH and ask him to lunch next week if – and this is a bold-faced, italicized IF – you can do it with the same degree of detachment from the results that you would have if you were asking a woman.

    If you asked a woman, and she couldn’t make plans with you, what self-talk would that prompt in you?

    If you asked WH, and he couldn’t make plans with you, what self-talk would that prompt in you?



  110.  #110Jacqueline on August 21, 2010 at 6:24 pm

    Daria….I’m just happy to hear you’re out there with someone who you care about….not just a “friend” with no fear, etc. to work through/with!!

    Ladies!!! If you scroll all the way to the end of the Evan Mark ad….if you purchase before Sun. nite you also get a FREE PHONE coaching session!! wow, I think that is too cool, and would love for one of us to get in on that….and a like phone conference class too. Very cool, and probably overlooked if you don’t scroll all the way down.

    Best wishes for all,
    J



  111.  #111Jacqueline on August 21, 2010 at 6:24 pm

    Hi, Joan! love the mandala sig photo!!



  112.  #112Jacqueline on August 21, 2010 at 6:27 pm

    ps…not the Sturgis jail, Daria….hahaha….Sturgis itself, an excellent adventure. Oh, and my mom? I got out of jail, got boyfriend out, and called and told her and she was like, put him on the phone now! and I was like oh, shit….and then she says to him “don’t you know if you go ANYWHERE with my daughter you’re going to have an adventure?” How cool is that for a “mom???”

    Knocksoftly still sending you waves of peace…..



  113.  #113Erika Awakening on August 21, 2010 at 6:29 pm

    Lol, all right, as I ready knocksoftly’s post about being in jail …

    I felt humor coming to me … and I noticed that if I were posting anywhere else, I would spontaneously just go with it … some of you are on Facebook with me, and maybe have noticed how I do a lot of lighthearted bantering with my guys …

    here though I’m worried humor is going to be triggering, and I’m gonna open it up anyway …

    knocksoftly, it seems to be that jail is the PERFECT place to get in touch with feelings, as there’s not much else to do and so can get present without distractions … so in a way it’s the perfect “holding space”



  114.  #114Nikita on August 21, 2010 at 6:41 pm

    Ode to double entendre’s…….



  115.  #115Renee on August 21, 2010 at 6:43 pm

    Knocksoftly — I feel so bad for you that you had to spend the night in jail! That must have been quite an experience…I hope you’re able to figure out what you believe the message was from that experience and work through your anger as quickly as you’d like…of course, sometimes it takes longer to work through negative things than we’d like, but you don’t want to get stuck there.

    That’s an interesting take on my conversation with Indy guy about my mentioning that I wasn’t seeing the same person several nights in a row and was taking my time getting to know people…it was obviously a lie and now that I think about it, I can see you’re right about that…I was seeking approval because he’s obviously taking the slow train to relationship town and I guess I figured he’d like (and maybe repsect?) me more if he thought I was doing the same thing…

    He may or may not ever step up, but the thing I’m feeling most right now is regret for having mentioned it…I bought (and am in the process of reading) “Why He Disappeared” and I realize that while I was speaking my truth, so to speak, I was also making him feel bad about his approach to dating me, which, while not what I would prefer, is still a valid approach…if I don’t like it, I can opt to not go out with him again or see where he fits in my schedule if I feel like it, but I shouldn’t have criticized him (by saying things like, “most guys I’ve dated, if they’re really interested in me, figure out a way to find time for me”…I’m sure that made him feel guilty about things as opposed to inspiring him).

    Well, I guess I’m learning…now I feel compelled to send him a txt telling him that I understand if his schedule is busy and that I’m sure things will work out if they’re meant to be…but I guess I better not. I would like him to feel inspired to find time for me rather than feel bad about his approach/schedule…something I’m definitely going to keep in mind.

    Cougar man is pouting because he thinks I’m out with someone else…I feel a little “ick” about that because I’m starting to see his imperfections and I’m not sure how much time I want to spend with him…maybe I am just using him to build my ego and prevent myself from being lonely…but I haven’t lied about my feelings towards him or my intention of dating other men for now…still, I feel kind of guilty.

    Getting ready to txt blondie that I’m available to talk (he asked me to)…he intrigues me…maybe because he’s still an unknown…heck, I don’t know.



  116.  #116Erika Awakening on August 21, 2010 at 6:47 pm

    Lucy,

    What Joan said resonated with me. I gave up following “rules” with men a long time ago, and I found that thinking about leaning forward or back just got me in my head. My thing is I don’t ask guys on dates, and I don’t approach them in bars unless I sincerely need information or am in a “rockstar” space where I’m just connecting with no sexual intention.

    The more I just go with my spontaneous intuitions to connect, the better things go. If I don’t hear from VG and I’m missing him, I’ll send a simple feeling message text or even just say his name. I’ll say his name, and he writes back “I’m here” or “baby” or “yes love.” And then I say I was just reaching out to touch his arm to feel him, and then he’ll say something like “I’m here. I’m running my fingers through your hair, caressing your thigh.”

    I personally believe it’s fine to reach out, I just stay in my feelings and if I’m scared make it a little baby step so not too much fear will arise and block connection. I also reach out to lots of guys like on Facebook with sincere appreciation or humor and no attachment to them doing anything in return. I find that doing this with lots of guys over time and getting lots of positive responses has made me less scared about doing it when it matters.

    To me, the main benefit of not reaching out is making space, getting present with one’s own feelings instead of covering up anxiety by “doing” things.



  117.  #117Erika Awakening on August 21, 2010 at 6:50 pm

    It really helps me to think of all men as my friends.



  118.  #118Nikita on August 21, 2010 at 6:51 pm

    “The slow train to relationship town” !!! 🙂 lol!!
    ……….the long slow scenic route to relationship 😉 love that …Renee



  119.  #119Erika Awakening on August 21, 2010 at 6:52 pm

    Also, cuz of the whole mirror thing, and I didn’t want guys running away from me, I stopped running away from them. Instead of avoiding a guy, I would communicate with him honestly because that’s what I wanted men to do for me. If I think of all men as friends, and am in that relaxed space, why would any of them ever “disappear”? We are friends first and foremost.



  120.  #120joan on August 21, 2010 at 7:11 pm

    Hi Jacqueline,
    Thanks for the compliment on the avatar. I “drew” it with an online kaleidoscope painter. I color mandalas either by hand or on my computer as my gateway to meditation/processing.

    Hi Erika,
    I don’t want my post to be misconstrued. I’m not advocating that Lucy contact WH. I *think* this is a case of comparing apples to oranges, and that she would be much more invested in the outcome with WH than if she were asking a woman. I’ve read the grief she’s put herself through over getting back her glasses from WH, and it would feel bad to see her do anything like that to herself again.

    Hi Lucy,
    Beyond clarifying my intention with Erika, I don’t want to continue to talk about you in the third person. Are you really willing to risk being just another woman in the posse that’s chasing WH (and none of whom have been able to “catch” him)?



  121.  #121Erika Awakening on August 21, 2010 at 7:20 pm

    “Are you really willing to risk being just another woman in the posse that’s chasing WH (and none of whom have been able to “catch” him)?”

    Joan and Lucy, this is what I mean about beliefs that don’t feel good and make things worse instead of better?

    How about a reframe here? I don’t know what reframe would feel good to you, Lucy, but when I reach out to men, here are some frames that feel good and relaxed to me:

    “I’m friends with all men, and I can reach out to anyone on this planet as a friend.”

    “I’m going to experiment, and whatever happens I’m going to learn something from it, about myself and men.”

    “It’s possible this could be painful to reach out, but what’s the worst that can happen? I’ll get triggered and that means I can release some of my limiting beliefs.”

    “What if none of my fearful interpretations about why I haven’t heard from him are true? What if there really could be an innocent explanation?”



  122.  #122Erika Awakening on August 21, 2010 at 7:21 pm

    I can basically promise that anyone who believes this belief:

    “Are you really willing to risk being just another woman in the posse that’s chasing WH (and none of whom have been able to “catch” him)?”

    is going to shut down internally. And when you shut down internally, you shut him out. To me, this belief does NOT feel trusting, or open, or confident. It feels fearful.



  123.  #123Lucy on August 21, 2010 at 7:28 pm

    Joan and Erika, thank you so much for your comments. I was shopping with my kids all evening (back-to-school/college stuff), and my feelings about WH were actually making me feel physically sick and in pain. At one point, I started thinking about the possibility of being friends with him if he doesn’t want to date me — so coming home and seeing what you wrote about men as friends, Erika, struck me as interesting.

    Oh — now I’m reading more of what you’re writing about it…..



  124.  #124Nikita on August 21, 2010 at 7:32 pm

    Erika,

    Your “not running from guys-but communicating” reminds me of why I stopped smoking! I wanted to create more commitment in my relationships so I started with myself. I stopped breaking the promises I made to me to let go of a habit that had ceased to serve me 🙂 it worked!



  125.  #125Lucy on August 21, 2010 at 7:34 pm

    ‘To me, the main benefit of not reaching out is making space, getting present with one’s own feelings instead of covering up anxiety by “doing” things.’

    Yes, while shopping, I was definitely present with my feelings and not doing anything to avoid my anxiety. I was feeling it full-force. I feel it physically right now, too, as a pain around my heart.

    While reading #122, I spontaneously breathed out a loooong sigh. It surprised me.



  126.  #126Lucy on August 21, 2010 at 7:45 pm

    The problem with the friends thing, though, is that I’ve read so much about how being a guy’s friend prevents him from being attracted to us romantically….

    I don’t know if I believe that though. In my personal experience (college years), there were two guys (at different times) I was friends with first that developed romantic feelings for me and eventually proposed to me. I was engaged to one of them — and, actually, WH reminds me of him — but I ended up breaking it off (and later wished I hadn’t.)



  127.  #127Erika Awakening on August 21, 2010 at 7:46 pm

    “Joan and Erika, thank you so much for your comments. I was shopping with my kids all evening (back-to-school/college stuff), and my feelings about WH were actually making me feel physically sick and in pain. At one point, I started thinking about the possibility of being friends with him if he doesn’t want to date me — so coming home and seeing what you wrote about men as friends, Erika, struck me as interesting.”

    Lol, Lucy, this is why I gave up diets long ago … I learned that diets made me HUNGRIER … and I learned that if I just went ahead and had the piece of chocolate at the moment I craved it, instead of obsessing about chocolate all day, the craving really was satisfied and I could get on to other tings …

    LOL 🙂 This is why I don’t worry about which way I’m leaning …



  128.  #128joan on August 21, 2010 at 7:50 pm

    Yes, Erika … it feels fearful … but, then again, so did all those posts I read from Lucy browbeating herself about how she handled the glasses situation. So, yes, it would be something that needs to be addressed BEFORE she makes contact.

    My question referenced comments that Lucy has made in the past about WH being used to women chasing him. Maybe one of your reframes will work for her, and that would be great. I vote for Lucy. 🙂

    Still, I’d be surprised to discover that Lucy desires to reach out to WH as a friend (or an “experiment”).
    Lucy, how do you feel about it?



  129.  #129Lucy on August 21, 2010 at 7:51 pm

    I hear you about the mirror thing, Erika. The last couple days I have been realizing that I have not treated a lot of men the way I would want to be treated, and I am adjusting that.



  130.  #130joan on August 21, 2010 at 7:52 pm

    Oh, this crappy slow DSL. You’ve already replied.



  131.  #131Erika Awakening on August 21, 2010 at 7:52 pm

    By the way, money is like men …

    When it’s not flowing in, it’s because something is shut down internally …. money loves us and wants to come adore us 🙂



  132.  #132Lucy on August 21, 2010 at 7:59 pm

    Joan — I think maybe you are getting WH confused with TN man. TN man is the one who has always had women chasing him.

    WH did mention that women on dating sites sometimes ask him out, but he gave me the impression that they don’t end up pursuing him past that. From what he has said, it doesn’t seem that there are many (if ANY) women chasing him.



  133.  #133joan on August 21, 2010 at 8:03 pm

    Nope, I don’t have them confused … just maybe had the verbiage wrong – “chasing” vs. “asking out”.



  134.  #134Lucy on August 21, 2010 at 8:10 pm

    Erika, re: #132. The frustrating thing is that men have been flowing in like crazy, wanting to date me and even marry me — for a year now — and, although I like many of them as friends, I don’t feel any more than that for them. WH is the first man I’ve gone out with since my divorce who I actually feel those feelings for — and, based on my experience with all the other men, I thought that he would feel that way too! I was very surprised it turned out this way.



  135.  #135Nikita on August 21, 2010 at 8:13 pm

    Sigh,

    I wish I could attract money the way i’ve attracted men 🙁



  136.  #136Lucy on August 21, 2010 at 8:13 pm

    “Are you really willing to risk being just another woman in the posse that’s chasing WH (and none of whom have been able to “catch” him)?”

    Joan, this is what I’m referring to. It does not seem like an accurate depiction of his experience with women. From what he has said, there are not many women interested in “catching” him.



  137.  #137Lucy on August 21, 2010 at 8:16 pm

    Erika, I kinda like these two reframes:

    “I’m friends with all men, and I can reach out to anyone on this planet as a friend.”

    “What if none of my fearful interpretations about why I haven’t heard from him are true? What if there really could be an innocent explanation?”



  138.  #138joan on August 21, 2010 at 8:18 pm

    Ditto, Nikita.

    I’ve got the man.

    Money, step up!



  139.  #139Nikita on August 21, 2010 at 8:21 pm

    Whenever I see WH mentioned I feel reminded of PG(man I dated).I literally see his face. It’s the initials….and the fact he was a hottie….who proposed!!!! And then…..I got fearful…and then….. Anyways-I feel a mild trigger when I see those two letters together and I secretly want Lucy to connect with WH because of my experience. In hindsight I wasn’t brave enough to be completely present and authentic….I felt skittish….I am WH’s biased cheerleader.



  140.  #140Nikita on August 21, 2010 at 8:24 pm

    And myWH (PG) was soooooo chased by women….and “not yet caught”. I couldn’t believe that he was trying to yoke himself…..



  141.  #141Lucy on August 21, 2010 at 8:24 pm

    “And when you shut down internally, you shut him out.”

    It seems that is where I am right now — right at the edge of that shutting down place — struggling to be trusting, open, and confident — struggling to choose beliefs that serve me vs. beliefs that bring me down.



  142.  #142Nikita on August 21, 2010 at 8:27 pm

    Yes!!! Omg!!! After we parted I learned he had been pretty single and not “hooking up”! But I saw it that he was soooo…whatever, I choose to let it go 🙂
    sigh…..he’s still a hottie tho :p



  143.  #143joan on August 21, 2010 at 8:27 pm

    Lucy, mea culpa.

    Apparently, then, it was a faulty remembering on my part of what I had read when you were going through the agonies of wanting to lean forward with him before he asked you for a date. I am sorry that I misremembered, and therefore misrepresented, his situation.



  144.  #144Lucy on August 21, 2010 at 8:27 pm

    Nikita, this made me smile:

    “I secretly want Lucy to connect with WH because of my experience. In hindsight I wasn’t brave enough to be completely present and authentic….I felt skittish….I am WH’s biased cheerleader.”

    Thanks. 🙂



  145.  #145Lucy on August 21, 2010 at 8:33 pm

    Joan, no worries. I remember writing on here that I *wondered* if he was used to women chasing him (based on him saying that women online have asked him out and on the fact that he kept saying he was interested in me and wanted to date me but wasn’t coming right out and asking pointblank for a date.)



  146.  #146Renee on August 21, 2010 at 8:34 pm

    Lucy — I feel bad when I think of your reaching out to WH…I think I’m just projecting her my fear of rejection, but Rori really talks a lot about leaning back, especially when you’re attached to the outcome. If you get to a place where you’re honestly not attached, maybe it would feel better to have you contact him. What do you think?



  147.  #147Jacqueline on August 21, 2010 at 8:34 pm

    Joan, I so love mandalas….can you tell me the program link? I love kalaidoscopes, too….cool; they can get repetitive like in a coloring book I got of them but I had a great time once at a class where we drew them and the teacher “interpreted” them….

    About the other conversation going on, I too have read a lot of Lucy’s struggles – Hi, Lucy! and have wondered what the gut reaction of hers – yours, actually, Lucy would be if you weren’t following the “tools” like leaning back? What was it like before you began to apply them, better, worse?

    Hi, Erika! The reason I feel I can still be in communication with every “ex” I’ve had is just that…they were and are my friends. Great place to be at with an ex, would NOT want to be there with someone I wanted as a hot lover, tho! That should start out with fireworks and sparks, for me…smile….



  148.  #148Lucy on August 21, 2010 at 8:37 pm

    I would really like to be able to detach from him — to just not care. But I can’t seem to get to that place.



  149.  #149Erika Awakening on August 21, 2010 at 8:38 pm

    Lucy, I don’t know and I’m not giving advice cuz I don’t know the big picture … But the glasses thing felt to me like so much ‘thinking’ about leaning back that it honestly wouldn’t surprise me at all if he thinks you are not interested.

    That last reframe felt the best to me too. What if he honestly thinks you are not interested?



  150.  #150Lucy on August 21, 2010 at 8:42 pm

    Hi Renee. Thanks for your input. I don’t know whether or not I’m going to reach out to him. Right now I am not really focused on *doing* anything (or even on making a decision about that) but rather on what’s going on internally for me.



  151.  #151Nikita on August 21, 2010 at 8:43 pm

    Aha!!! I felt the same way about the glasses thing Lucy! (as Erika) but since I was biased I never wrote about it-but my feelings around it were; wow he’s trying in his way but she beat him to the punch on this one….my authentic would be I need them asap-what’s faster for you WH? Can you be here in an hour :)?



  152.  #152Nikita on August 21, 2010 at 8:44 pm

    Lucy,

    Caring is good. I care – I’m just not losing sleep over it 🙂



  153.  #153Lucy on August 21, 2010 at 8:45 pm

    Erika, when I talked to TN man about the glasses thing, he said the same thing you did — that WH probably thought I wasn’t interested. However — when my glasses arrived in the mail, I sent him a thank you text and — because of what TN man said — added that I would love to see him again.



  154.  #154Lucy on August 21, 2010 at 8:57 pm

    Hi Jacqueline. Great question! I started dating at the same time I started using the tools — about a year ago. But, prior to my marriage, I pretty much got whatever guy I wanted until I didn’t want him any more. Sometimes I was pretty forward about it, too — and not in an anxious way.

    I have wondered this before, and it has crossed my mind again in this situation — if maybe the guys I like aren’t really “masculine energy” guys. I don’t know….



  155.  #155Jacqueline on August 21, 2010 at 9:00 pm

    @Lucy….did you get a reply from the text? I don’t know if you saw my question – but how is it different/better for you now that you are using these tools? I’m curious how leaning back, et. al. feels to you because you obviously feel deeply about all these things. Do they feel different when or because you are using Rori’s tools/methods? Do they feel better?

    Thanks, all…..

    Jacqueline



  156.  #156joan on August 21, 2010 at 9:04 pm

    Jacqueline,

    The kaleidoscope painter can be found at: w w w dot permadi dot com / java / spaint / spaint dot html

    You can create your own mandalas at: w w w dot girlsgotech dot org / mandala dot asp

    Of course, take out all the spaces and replace the words “dot” with actual periods.

    There are other sites that have free mandalas that you can download to your computer and either color on your computer (using Paint, etc.) or print and color by hand. However, I don’t wan’t to usurp any more of Rori’s space by listing them. If there is another way to contact you, I’d be happy to send you the links to the ones that I’ve frequently used.



  157.  #157Lucy on August 21, 2010 at 9:04 pm

    Yeah, Nikita, you know what just occurred to me while reading your comment? That I might have hurt his feelings.



  158.  #158Jacqueline on August 21, 2010 at 9:06 pm

    omgosh….these crossing messages! funny….

    My most succesful starts have been when I’ve felt like I had nothing to loose – like when I went up to the DJ at a bar, turned out to be the bar owner feeling in, and said you’re the most gorgeous guy I’ve ever seen…that turned into a four year thing. But the funniest part was he couldn’t hear me, had no idea what I’d said…it was all the attitude. It feels great to have a man pursue you, and the do zero in quickly I believe. But you do seem to be a deep thinker/feeler and maybe the man you want will be more sensitive to all things, and therefore rejection, too. Cuz I totally don’t get it that as cool as you sound and as much as you are using the CD tool it’s not coming together for you. But I know it will when you are in that space….and it sounds like your body’s telling you there are still things to process around it???

    How does that feel to you?

    Glad all is good – hope knocksoftly is okay!!!!!

    Nite all…..

    J



  159.  #159Lucy on August 21, 2010 at 9:13 pm

    On our date, he told me that his wife left him because she said she just didn’t love him anymore, but he thought the real reason was that she was *embarrassed* by him. That she had “outgrown” him — she had become very successful and well-known in her career, and he was pretty much where he had been all along — his business made enough to pay the bills, but his heart was in his songwriting — and I would imagine that his looks didn’t fit in well with her crowd either — he’s definitely not the suit and tie type. Lol. He looks kinda like Billy Ray Cyrus. (Other people have told him that too.) His speaking voice sounds like him, too.



  160.  #160joan on August 21, 2010 at 9:18 pm

    Erika and Nikita, finally, someone mentioned the “elephant in the room”. I was also of that mindset about WH’s offer to meet to return the glasses. It felt cruel for me to mention it, though, because by the time I read about it, Lucy had already put herself through enough h*ll over it, and seemingly, nobody else had seen it that way. (Yeah, I was chicken … bawk, bawk, bawk!)



  161.  #161Jacqueline on August 21, 2010 at 9:33 pm

    @Lucy…yeah, that’s what I mean about all recently broken up with men have issues! I found a lot of that, too on online dating, esp. if they had recently been broken up. Well, you have to go with your gut feeling on it – I too was angry that he didn’t step up esp. when you contacted him, it stank that you had to do that so you couldn’t see what could happen organically! but that part of the story makes it seem different. It’s just going to be whatever makes YOU feel best now, I’m hoping.

    Joan – yes please!!! Rori’s really generous about this stuff, but my new email which will someday link to my site and anyone can write me at is Houstonrelationshipsurvey@yahoo.com. Site is purchased and is going to be Lifesdreamcreations.com. Fun, huh?

    Nite all sirens….



  162.  #162Lucy on August 21, 2010 at 9:38 pm

    Jacqueline, I’m not sure what you’re saying here:

    “I too was angry that he didn’t step up esp. when you contacted him, it stank that you had to do that so you couldn’t see what could happen organically! but that part of the story makes it seem different.”



  163.  #163Lucy on August 21, 2010 at 9:40 pm

    Thank you so much, everyone, for talking with me about this tonight. Feeling your love and care has made this a much better night for me. I am deeply grateful.

    <3
    Lucy



  164.  #164joan on August 21, 2010 at 9:49 pm

    Meanwhile, on the other side of Siren Island, I’m preparing for a different journey …

    Row, row, row my boat
    Swiftly out to sea.
    Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily
    Money comes to me!

    *singing and tapping into the night*



  165.  #165Lucy on August 21, 2010 at 9:54 pm

    Joan, I love it! I’m gonna sing myself to sleep with that — with you-know-who replacing “money.” 🙂



  166.  #166Laughing goddess on August 21, 2010 at 10:41 pm

    Hi Lucy: I’m in agreement with the consensus that it’s quite possible he thinks youre not interested. When I read your texts about the glasses, I felt bummed because it seemed like the was a lot of potential in the beginning but then you got nervous and sorta jumped in and made a suggestion. I could see how a sensitive guy could feel confused about your interest level.

    I’m also remembering TN…that you eventually contacted him first and even though you found out some kinda bummer news, it seemed to me that you felt better at least knowing what was going on.

    Wanted to share my perspective with the hopes that it will help in some way.

    Xoxo



  167.  #167Erika Awakening on August 21, 2010 at 10:45 pm

    “Erika and Nikita, finally, someone mentioned the “elephant in the room”. I was also of that mindset about WH’s offer to meet to return the glasses. It felt cruel for me to mention it, though, because by the time I read about it, Lucy had already put herself through enough h*ll over it, and seemingly, nobody else had seen it that way. (Yeah, I was chicken … bawk, bawk, bawk!)”

    Lol, I surely hope nobody here expects me to be silent in the face of GIGANTIC elephants in the room … lol :p



  168.  #168Erika Awakening on August 21, 2010 at 10:48 pm

    I haven’t been out in about two weeks. Went out with Czech Girl tonight for about two hours, and men were all over me, with their eyes, coming over, sitting at the table with me … this is why no more circular dating for me … God will take care of me 🙂



  169.  #169Erika Awakening on August 21, 2010 at 10:55 pm

    Lucy, from what you described, it seems like he has plenty of limiting beliefs of his own, and that’s okay. Men are human beings, just like us. My current guy has a few, and he is amazing.

    No need to put WH on a pedestal though. VG and I are friends first. He even said straight up this isn’t about sex for him. Men don’t choose a life partner for sex. They choose her for emotional intimacy.

    I’m not giving you advice. I refuse to give advice in any situation where I don’t fully understand it holistically. Yet intuition says: Analysis here is pointless. How he is feeling is changing moment to moment just how you are feeling is changing. The frame I’d go for here, to reduce the fear so you can reconnect is, “at the very least, this guy is a learning partner for me, so it’s okay for me to reach out.”

    And I’d reach out with a feeling message, not a “strategy.” Meaning, I wouldn’t ask to see him again. If it were one of my guys, I’d say the feelings from my heart.

    I simply would satisfy my chocolate craving in this situation, and I wouldn’t listen to any advice to the contrary. And if it didn’t work out the way I wanted, I’d know, deep down, that I’m going to be okay anyway.

    “I choose to be powerful anyway.” One of my all time favorite mantras.



  170.  #170Laughing goddess on August 21, 2010 at 10:57 pm

    Lucy,

    Something that has helped me when I’m feeling sick over a guy…a guy who I feel soooo attracted to and I just know i will never meet some one as cool, sexy, hot, perfect for me, as he is ever again…

    What works for me is, I remind myself that God created TN, this hottie that you feel so good connecting with and God created WH, with whom you also feel a strong connection, so what if God has created someone even better for you. What if he’s right there? He’s standing at the door getting ready to knock but he can’t until you surrender and trust that God is bringing you your perfect man.

    Possible reframe…

    The only possible reason for him not being interested in me is that God has something even better in store for me.

    Ya mama! That feels good to me! I feel excited about the man that is standing outside your door lifting up his hand to knock.



  171.  #171Laughing goddess on August 21, 2010 at 11:01 pm

    Let him in Lucy 🙂



  172.  #172Laughing goddess on August 21, 2010 at 11:06 pm

    I can see him from here… He’s quite hot in the way that you like ’em, he’s smart, he understands emotions, and spirit, you feel great around him, you can feel how much he loves you. There’s no doubt in your mind. And you feel relaxed knowing that you are a perfect match for him just like he is for you.



  173.  #173Laughing goddess on August 21, 2010 at 11:07 pm

    There’s so many other posts I would like to respond to but this goddess needs some rest.

    Sweet dreams all



  174.  #174Erika Awakening on August 21, 2010 at 11:34 pm

    Tonight I took a taxi home, and the cab driver had a beautiful dog in the front seat next to him. That dog wanted to climb back into the back seat with me. And I got present, and my heart connected with that dog, and I felt her sadness, and I gave her some Reiki, and by the time we got home her sadness was gone. It was such a sweet moment 🙂



  175.  #175Lucy on August 21, 2010 at 11:53 pm

    Feeling msg – I don’t know what I would express to him. My genuine feelings are: I feel drawn to him, scared of him not wanting me… Wow, I just realized I also feel scared of having a relationship with him. Hmm. I feel kinda mad. And I feel my heart race when I see his picture – not because he’s so “hot” but because I just like/love him so much. I feel peaceful and joyful when I remember parts of the date without feeling the pain. I feel happy and sad at the same time when I look at the frog he won for me



  176.  #176Lucy on August 22, 2010 at 12:00 am

    Thanks, LG, for your beautiful helpful words. <3



  177.  #177Lucy on August 22, 2010 at 12:19 am

    Another feeling: I feel angry and judgmental of myself for feeling so attached to a man after one date. I feel like Elliot with E.T.



  178.  #178Lucy on August 22, 2010 at 12:28 am

    Another: I feel a little tiny itty bitty glimmer of hope that he is still interested in me.



  179.  #179Lucy on August 22, 2010 at 12:33 am

    And I feel like smacking myself in the face and throwing my phone (which happens to be a motorola karma) across the room. And I feel like kissing him and running my hands through his hair. And looking into his eyes. And loving him.



  180.  #180Erika Awakening on August 22, 2010 at 7:40 am

    Lucy,

    “Is he interested in me or not?” feels like a fearful frame to me.

    It kinda puts all the power outside of YOU.

    My frame is “All men are interested in me. And everything I say or do is the perfect thing to say or do in any circumstance.”

    Say, for example, he’s not interested right now. Doesn’t matter. Feelings are fleeting. He could be not interested right now and propose to you next month. That sort of thing has happened to me.

    What I’m looking for here is to move the internal focus off of him and what he thinks/feels to YOU. And the reason for that is that feelings are shared.

    So if you are in a fearful, contracted frame and feeling fearful and contracted inside, then it’s less likely you hear from him. Because communication is blocked. Now if we can open you up inside by getting you in a stable, relaxed, YOU-focused frame, then things tend to shift to a better place … that resonate?



  181.  #181Erika Awakening on August 22, 2010 at 8:06 am

    I’m also noticing that it kinda feels like you are going round and round in circles about this … and what I find with people I work with is there are usually two things going on:

    1. The frame “is he interested in me or not?” is an in the head, round-and-round in circles frame because it gets you analyzing every little detail trying to “figure it out” and then if you’re in your head, you’ve disconnected from him. We need a stable, in-your-body-and-feelings frame instead.

    2. Very commonly, a round-and-round pattern like this started with an earlier trauma, and we want to clear out the earlier trauma from your energy system if that’s the case.

    Example: I have a friend who’s always indecisive about big decisions. We traced back to a childhood memory where they took her guinea pig to the vet and could have had a caesarean that day but waited until the next, and overnight the guinea pig died. The “second guessing” and trauma from that made her second guess herself about decisions and be paralyzed to make them from that day forward. Leading to round-and-round in the head pattern.



  182.  #182Erika Awakening on August 22, 2010 at 8:07 am

    lol, I just noticed my “we want to” language could be triggering. I really am just sharing my experience and please let me know if there’s a way to share it that feels better to you.



  183.  #183Laughing goddess on August 22, 2010 at 8:12 am

    Aww Erika. I really enjoyed hearing your story about the dog in the taxi.

    It reminds me of an experience I had yesterday. I stopped to check out a garage sale that I passed on the way home. I had my dog with me. The children got super excited and all ran over to pet my dog. There was one boy in particular who really loved dogs. His mom told him to give my dog space because he was just so excited. I could feel his sadness as that happened.

    As we were leaving this little boy was following behind us and I imagined that he just wanted to bask in the pure sweet energy that animals often have. So I stopped with my dog and we were just present with the little boy and I listened to him tell me about his dog and I as was with him, I felt so connected. I felt so connected to this sweet little boy and so happy that as I was listening my heart was so open to him. And as I was doing it, I was reminded of me as a sweet little girl who also loves animals.

    The moment felt so sweet and innocent and pure and living and as I drove away I felt such a wonderful feeling of love flowing through my being.



  184.  #184Laughing goddess on August 22, 2010 at 8:18 am

    I feel reminded of a belief that I have about myself…

    I am really great with animals, plants, and children …it’s adult humans that I sometimes struggle with.

    I’m going to try and reframe that belief.



  185.  #185Erika Awakening on August 22, 2010 at 8:28 am

    Awww, LG, I was in the other room doing a few yoga poses, and I felt a heart opening, so I came back and saw your posts … feel tears coming … I feel sad about the man you had to live with as a child and how much his heart was shut down.

    I feel sad about children being raised by deeply unconscious parents and shutting their hearts down to protect themselves like I did. When I first did Reiki sessions with a healer a few years ago, she said, wow your heart is pristine, but you’ve locked everyone out of it. There’s nobody in there. And that was true, I had locked it up and thrown away the key.

    And a few months later, after much much much HBR on dozens of childhood memories, we did another session, and she said, “Wow, things have changed. Now your heart is like a crowded cocktail party. We’re going to open it up and make more room!!”

    🙂



  186.  #186Nikita on August 22, 2010 at 10:09 am

    Erika,
    “Example: I have a friend who’s always indecisive about big decisions. We traced back to a childhood memory where they took her guinea pig to the vet and could have had a caesarean that day but waited until the next, and overnight the guinea pig died. The “second guessing” and trauma from that made her second guess herself about decisions and be paralyzed to make them from that day forward. Leading to round-and-round in the head pattern.”

    This touched me deeply; I have been notoriously indecisive….I’ve felt powerless to change it but now I’m wondering if it is connected to my parents’ divorce. I was forced to make a lot of decisions at an early age. Decisions involving who to live with, who to spend summers with, where to spend Xmas and I was in a constant state of fear to a degree because I didn’t want to hurt either of their feelings. I also promised myself; when I grow up there will be no more decisions….I’m tired of making big decisions….but that’s an eight year old talking. Wow, I feel empowered around this now-and it was a blind spot for me….I feel hopeful that I could be decisive about everything and really take the bull by the horns 🙂



  187.  #187Nikita on August 22, 2010 at 10:13 am

    I had a guinea pig when my parents were married and perhaps that’s how I connected to this? But I have felt paralyzed about career….



  188.  #188Rori Raye on August 22, 2010 at 10:32 am

    John – how fantastic to have you here!!!! Yes – I can help you, I’ll write a post about this – it’ll go up in around 2 weeks – I used to do workshops for men to help them be more personally authoritative and cherish a woman’s feelings. Here it goes – you can’t be too overly interested in making her happy – or she’ll feel NEEDINESS from you – and move away from you. Personal authority for a man is feeling confident inside, and NOT needy (just like for a woman) – in other words – you’d do fine without her. Now – you feel your love for her, and extend it this way – when she complains, whines, cries, gets angry about something at work – or about YOU – you stand there and listen. You nod your head. Even if you want to fix it, or check out because it’s too much emotion coming at you – you stand there like a man. Lean your body forward – towards her. Pay attention as best you can, even if it’s whizzing by you and you just want to run away from it. Keep nodding your head. When she’s done…do something amazing…say “I’m so sorry you’re upset.” if she’s upset with you – say “I’m sorry I upset you.” If it’s about work, say “I’m so sorry that happened to you, and I want to fix it for you.” Whatever happens – even if you think SHE’S the one who caused the situation – do NOT try to fix it, do not tell her what she did wrong…just stand there and say…”And what happened then…” or “How do you feel?” And stand there and hear her as best you can. Then move in and give her a huge hug. This works for nearly everything…There’s so much more…I’ll give writing it down a go…Love, Rori



  189.  #189Rori Raye on August 22, 2010 at 10:36 am

    Jason – this is amazing, and since not everyone who comes by here will read it as a comment – I’m going to pull it out and post it…Love, Rori



  190.  #190Lucy on August 22, 2010 at 11:36 am

    Hi Erika. No worries about the language you used — it felt non-triggering to me.

    Part of my problem here is that my friend’s 18 yr old son was killed in a car crash last weekend — and that has precipitated in me a feeling of being terrified by life right now. Afraid of losing my kids, afraid of everything. My daughter has a life-threatening, progressive genetic disease and her condition is deteriorating. She is returning to college this week (senior yr) and I feel afraid it will be too much for her physically and emotionally. Everything feels so unsafe and scary right now. I think this is all adding to what’s going on with WH.

    “Now if we can open you up inside by getting you in a stable, relaxed, YOU-focused frame, then things tend to shift to a better place … that resonate?”

    Yes, that’s what I have been trying to do, but can’t seem to get there — or should I say, I haven’t gotten there yet. I think I cleared out most of my childhood traumas using that HBR workshop series you offered awhile back — I kept doing it over and over as more things came up, and it helped a LOT.

    I wish I could get past this. I don’t want to feel this way. I don’t want to feel so needy. I feel like I need a big hug from a strong and gentle man — like Rori wrote in her response to John.



  191.  #191Lucy on August 22, 2010 at 11:37 am

    Knocksoftly, I’m sorry you are feeling so badly too. <3



  192.  #192Erika Awakening on August 22, 2010 at 11:37 am

    @Jason, I’m so glad you are here 🙂

    @Nikita, cool, I’m so glad that resonated with you 🙂

    @Rori, I feel so much warmth from you 🙂

    @knocksoftly, does this resonate?

    After I told Vegas Guy no sex without commitment, we were at an impasse. He seemed immovable. My self-talk was, “that’s okay, I know what I want and I’m not settling for less, we can just be friends.”

    I had moved fully into acceptance and “friend” mode when he suddenly proposed.

    It’s just a dance 🙂



  193.  #193Lucy on August 22, 2010 at 11:39 am

    John, you rock. 🙂



  194.  #194Lucy on August 22, 2010 at 11:53 am

    Knocksoftly, she has cystic fibrosis (and a couple years ago developed CF-related diabetes as well).



  195.  #195Jacqueline on August 22, 2010 at 11:54 am

    Did John’s post get pulled? I don’t see it…..

    @ Lucy – what I meant was I think you reacted differently sinced you were basically forced into contacting him rather than getting to wait and see if he stepped up. You had to make a move, and experienced uncomfortableness because of that so neither of you were reacting the way you might have. So, who knows?

    However, I asked my guy about this….and he had a different take on it. So, this is my significant other (cute enough that women stare at him when we’re out….lol)’s statement, and yall, puhleeeze no throwing tomatoes!!!

    He said anytime a guy stays out til 4 am with someone he’s probably expecting it to get physical or go somewhere physical and he wasn’t going to call you back when it didn’t.

    This is a guy I had a first lunch with after 100 or more….and we’d both sent little thanks had a great time with roses…lol….within 2 hours after lunch….and even tho he’s so non confrontational, he was definitely targeted and coming after me as soon as he knew I was open to it. Amazing the results he got actually, as I was pretty sure in the no, I’m gonna marry a rich man and travel around the world line….or in the I’m not the marrying kind line – well, that is actually true.

    So, if this makes you feel angry, etc. I apologize, but we do all to often only see our feminine opinions on here.

    All that said, you really really liked this guy – I’d PHONE him…texts are vague and easy to ignore…and say, hey, how’s it going – you’ve got back up if he just echoes the other guy with I’ve found someone, and that was waaaay up the scale from dissapearing anyway, so you’re moving uPPPPP….

    you all have a great lazy day or kayaking nike just do it kind of day!!

    Jacqueline



  196.  #196Jacqueline on August 22, 2010 at 11:55 am

    that’s 100 or more internet coffee dates/lunches har….



  197.  #197Jacqueline on August 22, 2010 at 11:59 am

    and the thank you with roses were emailed…I didn’t really send roses….haha….funny that we both chose those – mine were goth rocker black ink looking on dark red, tho…..

    KS – I’ve got a whole story about dealing with love don’t make it all work out and letting go, one day I’ll tell it, and it’s pretty unusual and amazing and sad and beautiful – actually it’s publised on Divine Caroline, if you want to read it let me know.

    best,
    J



  198.  #198Lucy on August 22, 2010 at 12:06 pm

    Hi Jacqueline. Oh, you mean that I had to contact him because of the glasses? You’re right, that felt so frustrating to have to do that.

    Thanks for sharing your guy’s take on it. I thought it was kinda funny. I’m pretty sure that wasn’t an issue. I talked to two of my guy friends about the whole thing, and neither of them said anything about that being a problem (and they’re both very honest and upfront with me.)

    Plus, that feels like more analyzing and getting up in my head.

    Now I’m not sure what you mean by this: “and that was waaaay up the scale from dissapearing anyway, so you’re moving uPPPPP….”

    <3
    Lucy



  199.  #199Jacqueline on August 22, 2010 at 12:09 pm

    Hey, I meant that the guy contacting you and letting you know where he’d gone – ie to an exclusive relationship is better than a guy just dissapearing, so to me, I’d be thinking I was picking/getting high quality guys and yeah, me!!



  200.  #200Erika Awakening on August 22, 2010 at 12:14 pm

    @Lucy, did you see my earlier post on this thread about what HBR did for my health problems?

    I feel curious what past pain may be touched in you by the present feeling of un-safety …

    See, I didn’t hear from VG all day yesterday, but I didn’t make it “mean” anything, and today out of the blue while I was talking to the Vagina Mechanic, he sent me this text:

    “Kisses have a wonderful day”



  201.  #201Erika Awakening on August 22, 2010 at 12:15 pm

    Those were three unrelated impressions there, sorry I didn’t make that clear

    1. health

    2. un-safety and link to past pain

    3. not making silence “mean” something bad



  202.  #202Evan Marc Katz on August 22, 2010 at 12:31 pm

    Hey, it’s Evan, and I just wanted thank Rori for sharing “Why He Disappeared” with you. Believe me, her endorsement means the world to me, and I deeply appreciate the women who want to understand men from a MAN’s perspective.

    Which is why it’s so heartening to see John post on Rori’s blog to learn how to better connect with and please his girlfriend. The world should be FILLED with men like John who truly want to understand women better.

    But it’s not.

    This isn’t news – yet it’s undoubtedly caused a great many of your frustrations. You want men to be different. To get you. To understand you. To think like you.

    Those men are such a small percentage of the population that coaches like me literally decided to STOP coaching men because so few of them ask for help.

    Which is why YOUR growth and understanding is so important, so fundamental to this process.

    There are MILLIONS of men who can make you happy, who want to make you happy, without ever having reached out to the Roris and Evans of the world. THESE are the ones that you want to reach. Men who are MEN. They’re not self-help oriented, they’re not spiritually inclined, but they’re good, strong, kind, human beings who appreciate the love of a trusting, fun, playful, thoughtful, sexy woman who understands him and lets him be himself.

    Wouldn’t the world be a better place if there were more Johns in it?

    I think so. You can make that happen with your growth, self-awareness and confidence that come from understanding men the way you’d like men to understand you.

    If you’re reading this, it says a lot about you that you’re willing to “go past” getting triggered to get to the root of what makes men tick and why we stick around with some women and not others. I appreciate it and I know Rori does as well.

    My wife is my inspiration and I’m positive you can be a good man’s inspiration one day, too.

    Warmest wishes and much love,

    Evan

    Note from Rori: – I wanted to put in a link to Evan’s book Why He Disappeared because it’s last day to get all the bonuses if you were thinking about it…,

    http://www.evanmarckatz.com/products/why-he-disappeared-launch.html



  203.  #203Erika Awakening on August 22, 2010 at 12:38 pm

    Lucy,

    Would you be willing to help me with this? This is an area where I’m not sure I’m communicating my message very well.

    “Yes, that’s what I have been trying to do, but can’t seem to get there — or should I say, I haven’t gotten there yet. I think I cleared out most of my childhood traumas using that HBR workshop series you offered awhile back — I kept doing it over and over as more things came up, and it helped a LOT.

    I wish I could get past this. I don’t want to feel this way. I don’t want to feel so needy.”

    It has been my experience that if all childhood traumas are cleared out, neediness disappears COMPLETELY. Pure presence is 100% peaceful. Nothing “bad” happens anymore. If we have anything other than pure peace at all times, then the PAST is interfering with the present.

    I have found all kinds of secrets and shortcuts for getting stuff from the past up to the surface to be cleared. Issues people didn’t even know they had.

    Yet, how do I communicate in a non-condescending way this message … if your life is not exactly the way you want it to be, there is more to clear … and I know how to do it …

    I welcome other Sirens’ views on this also … (and men’s)



  204.  #204Jason Miller on August 22, 2010 at 12:58 pm

    Re: 208: Erika Awakening

    Erika’s right. Neediness is based on old fear. If you clear the fear, then you don’t feel that compulsion to cling to whatever you believe will soothe the anxiety. The absence of fear feels great and leads you to abundance and gratitude. You’ll be more attractive and suddenly that one guy you’ve been hung up on won’t seem like such a great thing. You’ll get other guys approaching you. Can’t feel that way when the adrenaline in your brain is giving you tunnel vision.

    Same advice I would give a man… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPLEClawXl4

    Sirens?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siren

    A man cannot resist a siren, right? Focus on working on yourself till you’re the siren. Be the grounded feminine woman first, then choose your suitor. There is no worthy man you can attract in a needy state.



  205.  #205Erika Awakening on August 22, 2010 at 1:08 pm

    “Focus on working on yourself till you’re the siren. Be the grounded feminine woman first, then choose your suitor. There is no worthy man you can attract in a needy state.”

    Damn, Jason, that is an amazing insight. Feels soooo true, now that I’ve seen the entire ladder from pit of despair to full empowerment.

    Hey Evan, it feels good to hear from you on the thread. I really enjoyed reading your “understanding men” approach to all this … it really resonated with me and sounded very valuable for women who are frustrated and thinking “what am I missing? why is this not working?”



  206.  #206Jason Miller on August 22, 2010 at 1:19 pm

    Re: 211: Erika Awakening

    Thanks, Erika. I’m cranking out blog posts…

    http://www.getthedude.com



  207.  #207Brenda on August 22, 2010 at 1:20 pm

    Erika,

    I think that is so cool you did Reiki on the dog in the taxi cab!!! I really connect with dogs, too. I love it when people are in tune with dogs’ emotions. They are such social creatures. They just want to love and be loved.

    I believe it isn’t coincedence that dog is God spelled backwards! God gave us dogs to show us how to love each other unconditionally! 🙂



  208.  #208Jason Miller on August 22, 2010 at 1:21 pm

    Thanks, Erika. I’m blogging away…



  209.  #209Lucy on August 22, 2010 at 2:04 pm

    Yes, Erika, I saw the post about your health.

    I feel curious about the past pain relating to unsafety, too. There were many issues/incidents in childhood, and even before I was born, that relate to fear and un-safety which I have already resolved — so I feel curious about what I may have missed.

    Michael Brown tells an excellent and memorable tale that drives home the folly of attributing meaning to events when we don’t have all the information — I don’t think it’s online anywhere — wish it was — it’s about a man’s dog and the neighbor’s prize rabbit — has anyone read it? I read it to my kids — it’s kinda funny and so enlightening!

    I feel happy that you received that sweet text from VG. 🙂



  210.  #210Erika Awakening on August 22, 2010 at 2:23 pm

    Thanks Lucy 🙂

    There’s a thing called “dissociation” … a lot of events have been pushed beneath conscious awareness … the post painful events, the ones we emotionally disconnected from, are the ones most likely to be inaccessible … unfortunately, those are also the ones that are wreaking havoc in the present moment …

    … and only after becoming deeply intimate with the way the subconscious mind works did I develop methods that work consistently to coax that stuff to the surface …

    This is not something I’m just pontificating about out of thin air … this is something I’ve witnessed over and over and over again. And when we find the past pain and release it, the present moment problem spontaneously resolves, usually all by itself.



  211.  #211Erika Awakening on August 22, 2010 at 2:30 pm

    This is why I ended up feeling regret about that 7-day video course. People did it and thought “ok, I can do this, I don’t need any help with this.” And what I must not have communicated very well is that the free video course barely scratched the surface of the liberation that is possible.

    I feel confused about this, I feel the message is not being heard. And I’m not sure if it’s because the power of this technology is so big that people don’t really believe it’s possible to do what I’m saying, that is solve every problem in your life and have perfect peace, or if there’s some other block in my communication.



  212.  #212Lucy on August 22, 2010 at 2:37 pm

    Erika, #209-211. I will offer my random thoughts on this and maybe it will help you/us. In random order:

    1. It sounds (to me) that you are saying that no Siren will have the relationship she wants until she does HBR with you. No judgment there, no anger from me, just what I’m hearing. And maybe that’s exactly what you’re trying to get across.

    2. I will do HBR with you in a heartbeat when the money appears. I used your techniques to tap for this a few months ago. I would like to be able to do it NOW.

    3. This is mostly joking — Maybe you could do surrogate HBR around money for all the Sirens and then the money would start pouring in for all of us and we would all pay to do HBR with you — then we’d all have the relationships we want, you’d get paid and further your mission, and the world would be a happier place. 🙂 That would be so cool!

    4. “There is no worthy man you can attract in a needy state.” I’m not sure I agree with this. It sounds like a limiting belief. And I know many needy women who have indeed attracted worthy men — my mother, my son’s girlfriend, my brother’s wife, and me when I was engaged in college — to name just a few.

    5. TN man somehow managed to reach that pure presence 100% peaceful non-needy place, and I’m pretty sure he didn’t use HBR.

    6. Most of the time I am not needy/clingy/fearful. I was not needy in any of my previous relationships up to and including my marriage. It has only been with TN man and WH that this feeling has arisen. They both have these strong, gentle hearts — similar to the guy I was engaged to in college — but I didn’t have any trouble “gettting” that guy. I feel curious about that — how did I attract and get a commitment from him so easily, but struggle now with these other two guys. Is it possible that the past trauma is not in my childhood, but in my marriage or other adulthood events? (from my understanding, though, the “bad” events in my adulthood would have arisen from childhood trauma anyway…? So I feel confused about the difference in my experience now compared to before.)



  213.  #213Erika Awakening on August 22, 2010 at 2:50 pm

    Thanks, Lucy. I was feeling a really mild anger in our connection … feels more relaxed now.

    I misspoke before, you are right. Not just childhood trauma. I leave no stone unturned. I clear past life trauma, fetal trauma (my mom had panic attacks when I was in the womb, so I was already traumatized when I arrived), birth trauma, post-birth trauma (I’ve had several clients who were in incubators for the first few months of their lives — imagine what that does to formative experience around connection) …

    I clear childhood trauma, I clear all relationship trauma, I clear every single “charged” experience a person ever had, EVER.

    I clear ancestral baggage, I clear stories the person was told about themselves as a child, I clear stories the person was told about the family (“we have always been poor”) …

    It could be a limiting belief about what Jason said, it could be, but if life is a mirror … and from what I’ve seen only a truly “whole” and “healed” person can attract and keep a truly “whole” and “healed” partner.

    How does that feel to you?



  214.  #214Lucy on August 22, 2010 at 2:52 pm

    “I feel confused about this, I feel the message is not being heard. And I’m not sure if it’s because the power of this technology is so big that people don’t really believe it’s possible to do what I’m saying, that is solve every problem in your life and have perfect peace, or if there’s some other block in my communication.”

    Two things come to mind when I read this:

    1. I can’t imagine my friend not feeling any pain at all about her son’s sudden death — although I pray every day that God will heal her pain. It would indeed upset the fabric of society if she and her family were not upset about this. Is that where we’re going?

    2. You appear to have a problem in your life that HBR has not yet solved — that is, communicating your message the way you want to. So, it appears as a contradiction.

    I am not saying this as a criticism. I am just pointing out what I notice, in the hopes that it will help you. <3



  215.  #215Erika Awakening on August 22, 2010 at 2:52 pm

    I feel intrigued by some of your other questions … thank you for sharing … I feel touched and grateful for your openness …



  216.  #216Erika Awakening on August 22, 2010 at 2:55 pm

    “You appear to have a problem in your life that HBR has not yet solved — that is, communicating your message the way you want to. So, it appears as a contradiction.”

    Yes, you are right.

    I am applying HBR to this right now, in this moment as we speak 🙂 … to understand how powerful it has been for me, is not to say I don’t still have any issues to resolve … I have a block here and I will find it and clear it … but what I have to face now is about one percent of what I had … my entire life was a disaster …



  217.  #217Erika Awakening on August 22, 2010 at 3:05 pm

    “1. I can’t imagine my friend not feeling any pain at all about her son’s sudden death — although I pray every day that God will heal her pain. It would indeed upset the fabric of society if she and her family were not upset about this. Is that where we’re going?”

    Is this true? That it would “upset the fabric of society” …

    I have helped many people release their grief about losing a parent, a relationship, or a pet.

    Is holding on to grief helping anybody? I feel sincerely curious. Whenever people are holding on to grief, there is some reason, usually hidden, for doing so.

    I am also curious, and have given a lot of consideration, to how I might be able to help people attract the abundance to pay for coaching. I figure if I could do that, I’d be helping the entire coaching community. A good solution that also meets a bunch of other concerns I have (such as a good giving/receiving balance and the commitment level of the people I’m working with) has not yet manifested, but I’m sure it will.

    I feel worried this conversation might not be interesting to anyone else on the thread. I feel open to moving it to a private conversation if that’s the case.



  218.  #218Jacqueline on August 22, 2010 at 3:06 pm

    Wow Lucy you are sounding so wise/insightful/amazing!!! And good growth to Erika for hearing it. No wonder you attract quality men, Lucy – I think it is something kind of current ie your marriage break up that’s keeping you triggered, not fully healed, but you are well on your way. This convo feels amazing!



  219.  #219Lucy on August 22, 2010 at 3:08 pm

    “and from what I’ve seen only a truly “whole” and “healed” person can attract and keep a truly “whole” and “healed” partner.”

    Yes, I agree with this. I believe that we attract a partner with the same degree of wholeness and healing that we ourselves have….. vibrating at the same frequency. Thus, the men I referred to as “worthy” are not more “whole” than the needy women they are in relationship with — but they are still worthy, high quality men, and the relationships are mutually enjoyable and satisfying.

    As you pointed out earlier, WH has some limiting beliefs and areas in need of healing, but he may still be a “worthy” man. So, my imperfection/pathology may match his imperfection/pathology (or another worthy man’s).

    What do you think?



  220.  #220Jacqueline on August 22, 2010 at 3:08 pm

    Well, Erika,…..posts crossed…..I think it’s interesting….rofl….

    You know when I asked you about help on a specific thing and you thought I was saying free help? I wasn’t I was open to paying….I just wanted thoughts on that specific thing. Anyway, we used to do a lot of stuff here in the metaphysical community on a “love offering” basis – it’s a great idea to explore..



  221.  #221Lucy on August 22, 2010 at 3:12 pm

    “I feel intrigued by some of your other questions … thank you for sharing … I feel touched and grateful for your openness …”

    This feels good to read. Made me smile. 🙂



  222.  #222Lucy on August 22, 2010 at 3:17 pm

    “Is holding on to grief helping anybody? I feel sincerely curious.”

    No, I don’t think holding onto grief helps anyone. I was referring to the immediate experience of grief and pain when a death/loss occurs — not “stuck” grief.



  223.  #223Lucy on August 22, 2010 at 3:21 pm

    “A good solution that also meets a bunch of other concerns I have (such as a good giving/receiving balance and the commitment level of the people I’m working with)….”

    I agree completely with those concerns. The same issues come up in church ministry/counseling/dream work that I have done.

    I feel excited about a solution manifesting!!! 🙂



  224.  #224Erika Awakening on August 22, 2010 at 3:23 pm

    Lucy and Jacqueline, thank you …

    Also, please let me clarify. My standards are very high, lol, not just for me, for everyone. I want perfect happiness. I want to have EVERYTHING I have ever wanted.

    So right now, for example, I’m already making as much money coaching as most people make doing it full time, yet I also have two other substantial sources of income. So when I say there’s still a “block,” I’m talking about a BIG vision here …



  225.  #225Erika Awakening on August 22, 2010 at 3:25 pm

    I’m talking about bringing HBR to the world.

    And is death inevitable? I’m talking about death being a limiting belief that we can transcend someday …

    That’s how big this vision is.

    I think it was Shannon mentioned I teach A Course in Miracles.

    “This one mistake, in any form, has one correction. There is no loss; to think there is, is a mistake. You have no problems, though you think you have. And yet you could not think so if you saw them vanish one by one, without regard to size, complexity, or place and time, or any attribute which you perceive that makes each one seem different from the rest. Think not the limits you impose on what you see can limit God in any way.

    “The miracle of justice can correct all errors. Every problem is an error. It does injustice to the Son of God, and therefore is not true. The Holy Spirit does not evaluate injustices as great or small, or more or less. They have no properties to Him. They are mistakes from which the Son of God is suffering, but needlessly. And so He takes the thorns and nails away. He does not pause to judge whether the hurt be large or little. He makes but one judgment; that to hurt God’s Son must be unfair and therefore is not so.”

    This is how BIG the vision is …



  226.  #226Lucy on August 22, 2010 at 3:27 pm

    Thanks, Jacqueline, your comment feels good to read!

    “I think it is something kind of current ie your marriage break up that’s keeping you triggered”

    You know, hmmm, there were two things that WH said during our date that mildly triggered me about issues in my marriage. They were the only two moments of that long date that did not feel completely peaceful and joyful to me.

    Oh! And I just remembered that TN man had triggered those same issues in me!



  227.  #227Erika Awakening on August 22, 2010 at 3:31 pm

    I’m talking about EVERYONE having effortless abundance, the relationship of their dreams, everything they ever wanted, and happiness that just keeps expanding in ways that were previously unimaginable …

    I am talking about world peace. I am talking about the end of every problem the world has ever seen.



  228.  #228Erika Awakening on August 22, 2010 at 3:33 pm

    “You know, hmmm, there were two things that WH said during our date that mildly triggered me about issues in my marriage. They were the only two moments of that long date that did not feel completely peaceful and joyful to me.

    Oh! And I just remembered that TN man had triggered those same issues in me!”

    Did you explore this with tapping?



  229.  #229Erika Awakening on August 22, 2010 at 3:35 pm

    @Jacqueline, ah, I misunderstood (see that’s part of my block lol, hearing you through filters) …

    Anyone wants to work with me can simply email me and do an intro session.



  230.  #230Lucy on August 22, 2010 at 3:38 pm

    Yes, Erika, I appreciate and understand the enormity of the vision. TN man says the same kinds of things — he follows this vision in his personal life and transmits it to his friends, though it is not his mission to personally bring it directly to the world as yours is — he expects that it WILL be brought to the world — but I don’t think he knows that you’re the one who’s doing it. 🙂



  231.  #231Lucy on August 22, 2010 at 3:44 pm

    “Did you explore this with tapping?”

    No, I did not. I explored it with *thinking*, lol. Oops! 😉



  232.  #232joan on August 22, 2010 at 3:52 pm

    Quote Lucy:
    6. Most of the time I am not needy/clingy/fearful. I was not needy in any of my previous relationships up to and including my marriage. It has only been with TN man and WH that this feeling has arisen. They both have these strong, gentle hearts — similar to the guy I was engaged to in college — but I didn’t have any trouble “gettting” that guy. I feel curious about that — how did I attract and get a commitment from him so easily, but struggle now with these other two guys. Is it possible that the past trauma is not in my childhood, but in my marriage or other adulthood events? (from my understanding, though, the “bad” events in my adulthood would have arisen from childhood trauma anyway…? So I feel confused about the difference in my experience now compared to before.)

    Seems like a “forest for the trees” kind of thing to me … maybe TN man and WH man have been presented to help you heal around your college fiancé? I feel curious as to whether you have done the HBR work around that guy/situation?



  233.  #233Erika Awakening on August 22, 2010 at 3:59 pm

    “No, I did not. I explored it with *thinking*, lol. Oops! ”

    LOL 🙂

    I just came across a couple of memories I’m going to tap.

    One is I was in a sorority in college. I had very little money at that time so I went out and got a waitressing job to solve that problem so I could pay my sorority dues. I felt compassion though for another girl in the sorority who said she couldn’t pay. I spent a lot of time getting the organization to start a financial aid program to help her. And six months later she dropped out. I was really annoyed. Beliefs formed: “people who claim not to have money are just using it as an excuse and are not really committed.”

    Also my mom, constantly saying there was no money and then squandering money on her various addictions.

    Tap, tap, tap 🙂



  234.  #234Nikita on August 22, 2010 at 4:08 pm

    Wow,
    I was sitting here wondering if Erika ever waitressed……maybe 4 hours ago, I was curious about how she paid for her college experience.



  235.  #235Lucy on August 22, 2010 at 4:09 pm

    Hi Joan. I did some HBR — okay, let’s call it Baby HBR to differentiate between the phenomenal work that Erika does with her clients and the tiny wee bit she taught me to do by myself — around the guy from college, but not in relation to TN and WH yet.

    TN man and I discussed M (college guy) quite a bit several months ago, and he thinks that the reason I broke off the engagement was that I had/have a belief — an “unconscious definition of love”– that says “I want it but can’t have it.” So, since M was pretty darn near perfect, I had to break up with him in order to not get what I want.

    Maybe that belief is still operating and preventing me from having these current guys.



  236.  #236Jacqueline on August 22, 2010 at 4:11 pm

    @ Lucy….oh, no you didn’t!!! rofl lmao…..too cute! I think you just need some time and space and it’s going to come together perfectly. I agree true grief must be grieved, no matter what tools you use, and I think you sound like you still have some grief – we all do/would. all the best of all the best on this! I am so loving this new writer/wit side of you!!!

    @ Joan – hi, girlfriend! Hope you’re having a great mandala Sunday day….



  237.  #237Lucy on August 22, 2010 at 4:12 pm

    I have noticed that there is soooo much space being held for this discussion — and I have wondered if Sirens are doing it intentionally and consciously — and it feels really beautiful to me — almost sacred. I feel gratitude for all of you. <3



  238.  #238Lucy on August 22, 2010 at 4:19 pm

    Lol. I’m reading my pof mail and there’s a msg from a new guy that just says: “i want you. tell me how.” lol



  239.  #239joan on August 22, 2010 at 4:35 pm

    Hi Joan. I did some HBR — okay, let’s call it Baby HBR to differentiate between the phenomenal work that Erika does with her clients and the tiny wee bit she taught me to do by myself — around the guy from college, but not in relation to TN and WH yet.

    TN man and I discussed M (college guy) quite a bit several months ago, and he thinks that the reason I broke off the engagement was that I had/have a belief — an “unconscious definition of love”– that says “I want it but can’t have it.” So, since M was pretty darn near perfect, I had to break up with him in order to not get what I want.

    Maybe that belief is still operating and preventing me from having these current guys.

    Lucy, what I read is you putting others on a pedestal and minimizing yourself … that you somehow can’t be/do/have anyone/anything as good as them/that.

    * * * * * * * * * *

    Hi, Jacqueline … My DSL has been sporadic again today, but I did send the email.



  240.  #240Erika Awakening on August 22, 2010 at 4:36 pm

    Baby HBR, lol, I’m enjoying experiencing humor on this site, it really makes me happy 🙂 For so long, I was wanting to see a lighter side to being here 🙂

    I’m also in touch with deep sadness … it’s triggered by the college stuff … I realize it feels painful to me when people say “can’t afford,” not only because it reminds me of how powerless it felt being around parents who constantly said “can’t afford,” but also …

    because I personally had NOTHING and no training in how to make money from my parents and found ways to make money anyway, it feels inauthentic and almost … negating? I’m not sure that’s the right word. I’m searching here for authentic feeling words … lot of sadness though



  241.  #241Erika Awakening on August 22, 2010 at 4:38 pm

    It feels like people expect me to do all the work to help THEM … I realize that’s a story I’m telling myself.



  242.  #242Erika Awakening on August 22, 2010 at 4:42 pm

    And I don’t even want to help my mother, because she feels like a bottomless pit of neediness, that anything given won’t really solve any core issues and it would just be depressing to try … so I’d rather wait until she’s ready and admits to needing help and commits to getting it herself so I won’t feel resentment about helping her.

    That’s a story I’m telling myself.



  243.  #243Nikita on August 22, 2010 at 4:43 pm

    “I’m also in touch with deep sadness … it’s triggered by the college stuff … I realize it feels painful to me when people say “can’t afford,” not only because it reminds me of how powerless it felt being around parents who constantly said “can’t afford,” but also …

    because I personally had NOTHING and no training in how to make money from my parents and found ways to make money anyway, it feels inauthentic and almost … negating? I’m not sure that’s the right word. I’m searching here for authentic feeling words … lot of sadness though”

    Cop out? Defeatist? Limiting ? .B.S. .? A lie? Self-hatred?

    Self destructive !! 🙂



  244.  #244Nikita on August 22, 2010 at 4:46 pm

    ……and then I read a few more comments and this pops into my head….I hope I’m attributing the quote to the correct person……
    I realize this could feel charged to some…..

    “charity breeds a multitude of sins”-Oscar Wilde….



  245.  #245Erika Awakening on August 22, 2010 at 4:47 pm

    Yeah, it feels like excuses and bullshit.

    But those aren’t really feeling words, lol, they are judgments …



  246.  #246Nikita on August 22, 2010 at 4:49 pm

    Oh, so then self-righteous may not quite fit either 🙂

    Mmmmm……hopeless? Is that a feeling? Disheartened?



  247.  #247Lucy on August 22, 2010 at 4:50 pm

    Loving your honesty, Erika.

    Joan, the Baby HBR thing was simply an acknowledgment of the real difference between the two practices — both for the sake of clarity and to respect Erika’s work.

    About M…. It feels not so much like I can’t have anything “as good as that,” but more basically, I can’t have what I want.



  248.  #248Erika Awakening on August 22, 2010 at 4:51 pm

    It would feel really good to be financially supported by a man. I’d like to have that experience for the first time in my life. It feels restful and peaceful and feminine. Vegas Guy wants to do that. I had a sugar daddy once but it never felt like a truly satisfying relationship. I choose the real happily ever after.



  249.  #249Lucy on August 22, 2010 at 4:53 pm

    “It would feel really good to be financially supported by a man.”

    Wow, I feel surprised to hear that! I also feel GOOD hearing it. And happy! 🙂



  250.  #250Nikita on August 22, 2010 at 4:54 pm

    Impatient, disgusted, apathetic, angry, sad 😉

    Nettled, irked, irate, exasperated, heavy, bewildered, vexed,

    Skeptical !!!



  251.  #251Nikita on August 22, 2010 at 4:57 pm

    I enjoy being supported….it has it’s challenges-

    But …… It feels fun when my heart is super open….but it feels frustrating when I’m not communicating authentically.
    ……but I love it 🙂



  252.  #252Erika Awakening on August 22, 2010 at 5:02 pm

    Yeah, I feel so deep in my feminine side now that anything that involves “work” is totally unattractive to me … I love the idea of having my needs taken care of so that all of my “work” is coming from pure inspiration …

    Big feelings of sadness about how powerless it felt being around my parents … and resistance to “going there” … which is often what prevents people from resolving their old hurts … it feels too painful to go there so it gets dissociated …



  253.  #253Erika Awakening on August 22, 2010 at 5:05 pm

    When I’m working with a client, I have special ways of comforting the subconscious mind so it feels safe bringing the pain to the surface, so it feels safe we can handle it …

    and then the bubbles of pain come to the surface in bursts and waves of emotions and break at the surface and evaporate into light …



  254.  #254Nikita on August 22, 2010 at 5:13 pm

    Erika,

    Bambina ,poetic, spiritual, journalist-
    translated into feeling words; of course.

    I do feel super feminine being protected from some things and nurtured in various ways…..I feel wispy and light….softer. But very vulnerable….it tests faith….



  255.  #255Nikita on August 22, 2010 at 5:15 pm

    It’s also a lot of holding space……when it’s harmonious at least 😉

    -being supported. . .



  256.  #256Erika Awakening on August 22, 2010 at 5:16 pm

    “I feel wispy and light….softer. But very vulnerable….it tests faith….”

    Yeah, oh yeah, and that’s exactly where I want to be … cuz there is ecstasy 🙂



  257.  #257Erika Awakening on August 22, 2010 at 5:20 pm

    Excuses and bullshit.

    Translated into my feelings:

    Annoyance, disbelief, lack of trust, skepticism, anger, frustration, unwillingness to help, resentment, feet stubbornly planted firmly in the sand just like I was about sex …

    inner voice says, “if you want my help, you are going to put skin in the game. We are in this together, or we’re not in it.”

    very similar to what I said to Vegas Guy.

    Thanks, Nikita, for helping me find those words.



  258.  #258joan on August 22, 2010 at 5:21 pm

    About M…. It feels not so much like I can’t have anything “as good as that,” but more basically, I can’t have what I want.

    Lucy, this seems like you’re playing semantics.

    You called M “perfect”.

    You can’t have what you want.

    You can’t have “perfect” (or “as good as he”).



  259.  #259Erika Awakening on August 22, 2010 at 5:21 pm

    Feels like anger and fear of giving into a big black hole that never gives back …



  260.  #260Nikita on August 22, 2010 at 5:25 pm

    Skin in the game??? Is that some “west coast sh*t 🙂 that feels very gangsta to me for some reason. lol!



  261.  #261Erika Awakening on August 22, 2010 at 5:26 pm

    lol, it’s kinda what my masculine side did in the relationship with VG. it’s like my masculine side is the father I never had, the one that screens the guys like crazy to see if they are “good enough” … and then when the test is passed, my feminine side takes over again.

    Lol, that felt good to say in words 🙂



  262.  #262dorothea on August 22, 2010 at 5:30 pm

    I feel discouraged
    I feel jealous of Erika’s enormous presence on this thread because I honestly feel ignored when she comes around. I call it the Erika Show. She is very intriguing to the Sirens here. This is my issue and not her fault.

    My contribution to this thread is not going to be very intriguing. I just need to say outside of myself and my loopy head that I am feeling rundown, I feel incapable and inadequate and afraid to coordinate a nationwide campaign in less than a month which I will start doing tomorrow.

    I cried a lot today. I even purposely hit my head on the wall. Then I stood there quietly screaming instead of nearly hurting myself.

    I feel afraid because there is a lot of talk about the drug cartels moving into my state to push back against legal marijuana businesses, and two related murders, one of which was only 2 degrees from me.

    and me? i am a director at the campaign working to get marijuana fully legalized and sold like alcohol. I proposed a ballot initiative this year that we didn’t go through with because the funding wasn’t there, but my name and address are public information as a result of that. Like one big, fat, juicy, easy target.

    I thought I was a revolutionary.

    Now I just feel stupid and afraid.

    I tell myself that an assassination is extremely unlikely, lol.

    i don’t think anyone will take this seriously because it sounds like out of a movie but i feel afraid, i feel helpless, i feel tiny and alone, and i have no one to talk to about it because i have to be strong as a leader.

    i feel nauseous

    i feel trapped.

    i don’t want to give up because some murderous assholes are “sending a message.”

    I got your message right here, cartels *holds up middle finger*

    that is all.

    i feel embarrassed and unworthy having shared all that.

    i wish my period would come already so I could feel all this stuckness drain out of me

    speaking of which, time to take a freaking pregnancy test.

    yeah i’m feeling like a big psycho. like the whole world can see i am a big psycho

    judging myself
    blah
    hugging myself



  263.  #263Nikita on August 22, 2010 at 5:32 pm

    On being financially supported;
    Limiting belief/doctrine #1.” Never depend on a man.”

    This is what I grew up with in my belief system,…..and what’s the subtext? It feels like fear and distrust….and a lot of controlling energy around it. So much crap ended up growing out of that belief…………so allowing myself to be supported in anyway is HUGE for me 🙂 I feel so much happier receiving and feminine 🙂 it took me years to get to this place and my life feels much richer. . . . .even though now I do my own nails instead of going to the salon! The quality of life I have is worth letting go of certain instant gratification independent woman luxuries



  264.  #264Nikita on August 22, 2010 at 5:38 pm

    …..for now. Of course being supported doesn’t mean giving up the nail salon but…..I feel just as sexy and desirable now as I did then….almost more so now. I feel more peaceful. More desired. Safer.

    It’s not all roses but maybe it could be 😉
    The best is seeing a man be ALL man in the traditional sense….I appreciate it so much more now that I’m not wrapped up -but I know what it’s like to be a provider to a degree and I don’t envy men for that; I just appreciate all that they do….. Gee, I feel so girly –



  265.  #265sia on August 22, 2010 at 5:48 pm

    hello erika,

    i posted on comment before, so I am reposting in case you missed it, because you are asking for feedback on how to communicate the HBR:

    I would like to give my take on validating yourself tru mentioning money you earn etc.: for me the biggest validation is when someone speaks moderately and matter of factly of their achievements and beliefs. That piques my curiosity. On the other hand I understand you want to help. I personally made one of my friends reluctant to visit this site and read about Rori´s philosophy, because I couldn´t stop myself from shoving it down her throat.

    and adding:
    i sometimes felt like your advice is ´too quick´. I have this from Bob Grant and I am using the approach: he says as a counsellor he didn´t manage to make clients follow his advice, if he gave it immediately. He knew what the problem was after few minutes, but in the end just realized he has to listen to all the details and look like he is thinking it over, otherwise people didn´t trust him that he knows what he is doing. Sort of like make everybody feel their problems are unique, even if they are not.
    I like it when people just say hmmmm…and don´t start talking immediately as I finished describing my problems. Or when I can see they are excited..just when they do not come from a position of immediate unshakeable authority, like a computer would do.

    You wouldn´t care to comment on why you deleted posts of mercedes from your blog? I feel torn about that..

    And coaching: can you help also people who are not likeable to you? Can this be a hindrance?



  266.  #266Erika Awakening on August 22, 2010 at 6:06 pm

    Sia, thank you … would you be willing to clarify what you mean by “not likeable to me”?

    Also, do I hear that you are uncomfortable with the talk about money? I’m well aware that is a trigger for many people, that’s actually part of why I talk about it openly. I’m curious to hear more specifically though what you mean …



  267.  #267Erika Awakening on August 22, 2010 at 6:07 pm

    Dorothea,

    Your post felt very authentic to me. I feel torn, part of me wanting to respond to what I hear as a request to be heard and to receive empathy … and part of me wondering if me responding is going to be triggering and feel like more of the “Erika Show” ….



  268.  #268dorothea on August 22, 2010 at 6:12 pm

    erika, there is an easy way out of your torn-ness. It’s me saying, please go ahead and respond.



  269.  #269Lucy on August 22, 2010 at 6:12 pm

    Joan, calling him “near perfect” was just my way of saying there was no good reason for me to break up with him. I feel a little frustrated here.



  270.  #270Lucy on August 22, 2010 at 6:20 pm

    Hi Dorothea. I have been feeling afraid too.

    “but i feel afraid, i feel helpless, i feel tiny and alone, and i have no one to talk to about it because i have to be strong as a leader”

    That’s exactly how I have been feeling . . . substituting “mother” for “leader.”

    I feel glad I can talk about it on here, though. I feel hopeful that you will feel welcome to talk about it on here, too. <3



  271.  #271dorothea on August 22, 2010 at 6:21 pm

    I think being a decent mother is a lot harder than my job or any of the risks associated with it.



  272.  #272dorothea on August 22, 2010 at 6:40 pm

    i feel stuck
    i’m sitting here pressing refresh over and over.
    this feels unproductive
    i was gearing up to work on some stuff for my 2nd job but the file is missing some data so I cannot accurately draw conclusions. this after me giving LI sh*t for taking up my day when i had work to do. and i can’t even work after all that ruckus.

    i should get up and do my dishes but i feel stuck.

    ok i am going to go wash 3 dishes and see how i feel.
    see yall soon



  273.  #273Erika Awakening on August 22, 2010 at 6:45 pm

    Dorothea,

    Lol, I am enjoying what I am hearing as your sense of humor …

    “I feel discouraged
    I feel jealous of Erika’s enormous presence on this thread because I honestly feel ignored when she comes around. I call it the Erika Show. She is very intriguing to the Sirens here. This is my issue and not her fault.”

    I appreciate you not blaming this on me. That feels good. I feel open to hear how you feel, and the “Erika Show” made me smile. I feel like saying, “it’s an open party, and you’re invited. We want to play with you.”

    “My contribution to this thread is not going to be very intriguing. I just need to say outside of myself and my loopy head that I am feeling rundown, I feel incapable and inadequate and afraid to coordinate a nationwide campaign in less than a month which I will start doing tomorrow.”

    I hear that things feel overwhelming right now. I also hear a lot of limiting beliefs about your abilities, at the same time that I hear YOU are coordinating a nationwide campaign, which makes me feel like jumping up and shouting, “do you see how brilliant and beautiful you are? YOU are coordinating a nationwide campaign.” 🙂

    “I cried a lot today. I even purposely hit my head on the wall. Then I stood there quietly screaming instead of nearly hurting myself.”

    I hear sadness here. I feel a sense of powerlessness in your words. I hear a desire to punish yourself. I hear echoes of the past.

    “I feel afraid because there is a lot of talk about the drug cartels moving into my state to push back against legal marijuana businesses, and two related murders, one of which was only 2 degrees from me.

    and me? i am a director at the campaign working to get marijuana fully legalized and sold like alcohol. I proposed a ballot initiative this year that we didn’t go through with because the funding wasn’t there, but my name and address are public information as a result of that. Like one big, fat, juicy, easy target.”

    I hear you being terrified. I hear you feeling vulnerable. I hear you feeling exposed. I hear you possibly wondering what you’ve gotten yourself into, and second guessing yourself, and wondering if you’ll be safe.

    “I thought I was a revolutionary.

    Now I just feel stupid and afraid.”

    I hear your passion and believing in what you are doing and yet second guessing it because of the fear. I hear strength under this.

    “I tell myself that an assassination is extremely unlikely, lol.”

    I hear an almost sickness feeling of dread and fear i these words. I hear a prayer almost, for safety.

    “i don’t think anyone will take this seriously because it sounds like out of a movie but i feel afraid, i feel helpless, i feel tiny and alone, and i have no one to talk to about it because i have to be strong as a leader.”

    I hear you feeling helpless. I hear a belief that it’s not possible to be honest about your vulnerabilities with people whom you are leading. I hear loneliness. I hear vulnerability. I hear disbelief. I hear bewilderment. I hear questions. I hear a plea for support.

    “i feel nauseous

    i feel trapped.”

    I hear a need for safety and ease and support.

    “i don’t want to give up because some murderous assholes are “sending a message.”

    I got your message right here, cartels *holds up middle finger*

    that is all.”

    I hear anger. I hear indignation. I hear determination. I hear fierce passion. I hear a need for justice.

    “i feel embarrassed and unworthy having shared all that.”

    I feel surprised hearing this, yet it feels authentic. I feel appreciative of your honesty. I hear beliefs about yourself that feel painful and are not true.



  274.  #274sia on August 22, 2010 at 6:49 pm

    By not likeable I mean ´not attractive´ as a human being. ´Not sympatico´. I have always wondered about this, in relation to therapists, (but this is an extreme example] – how can it feel to work with paedophile sadists, if the goal is to help them, you know? But spiteful hateful people which are not criminals must be difficult as well.

    As for money – depends on tone and context. I think my money situation could be better, but I dont think about it. When I say I cannot afford something, it is like saying I am not tall enough (to reach that awning).
    But I am uncomfortable with it being mentioned in a certain tone. It is like being told by a guy out of blue that he is good in bed. Or that he was best in his class.
    Lot of people who are not falsely modest and great at something just say eg Yes, I am okay at poker. The story I tell myself is: wow , they dont even think about themselves as being good at something as if it were something special, it is a norm for them!
    Somehow it also makes it much easier to show my shortcomings in the given realm, because if they are not flashy in their selfjudgement, they will not be strong in negative judgement in relation to me.. I dance and it is easiest (as in good feeling in the body and hence less mistakes) to be lead by guys who are not just good but not ambitious anymore, not out to prove something to themselves or me.
    Very dificult to explain, I am tired and have to go o sleep. But I am interested in your answer, and will come back to read, I hope you post. bye erika!

    And sorry to other Sirens, if this topic doesn’ t interest you.



  275.  #275Erika Awakening on August 22, 2010 at 6:50 pm

    Dorothea, I feel empathic pain in both of my shoulders, as in “shouldering too much responsibility, really need support.”



  276.  #276Jennifer on August 22, 2010 at 6:57 pm

    I feel panicky
    I feel tight in my stomach
    I feel nervous
    I feel like this guy isnt’ real…he’s lying somehow
    I feel hypervigiliant.
    I feel like “what’s your definition of alpha male? Cause yours and mine might not line up pal.
    I feel like….whoa..I don’t meet random dudes after one email convo
    Does being an alpha male mean you think yer the boss of me?
    And now I feel like a douche bag
    some random nice guy emailed me…
    and I think
    Ewww
    gak\
    sigh
    I’m so tired.
    This is crap
    I SHOULD be all excited about nice guys emailing me..I’ve been bitching about no action long enough haven’t I?
    I should be jumping at it
    I don’t wanna
    He looks like a project
    I don’t want a project
    I *HAD* a project…it took me 6 years and Canada now had one less basement dweller.
    I don’t have the energy for another project man
    Booooo



  277.  #277dorothea on August 22, 2010 at 6:58 pm

    i washed 7 dishes, hehe. i’ll go back for the rest soon.

    erika, i feel totally heard. in a super thorough way.



  278.  #278Simply Shannon on August 22, 2010 at 6:58 pm

    Wow. I love what you ladies (and gentlemen) have done to the place. Everything feels so spacious and open. The vibe feels super good… warm and comfy and safe. Love!

    I don’t want to spend too much time on the blog tonight. My plans include reading my book and letting my mind float into the story.

    But really quickly…

    Dorothea: This is my pastor’s website. (Don’t judge yet please. 🙂 ) I’m sending it to you because the man is a leadership genius. Some of it might feel helpful. Just skip all the minister/church references and insert “national campaign leader” or whatever feels good. I don’t want you to feel afraid. Some causes are worth discomfort. Just remembering that Erika mentioned Rosa Parks not too long ago…

    http://www.perrynoble.com/category/leadership

    Blessings and love, Shannon



  279.  #279dorothea on August 22, 2010 at 7:01 pm

    shannon, thank you. that is so helpful! really really



  280.  #280Lucy on August 22, 2010 at 7:02 pm

    Hi Shannon. I’m feeling curious about what book you’re reading.



  281.  #281Erika Awakening on August 22, 2010 at 7:19 pm

    Nikita,

    “.even though now I do my own nails instead of going to the salon! The quality of life I have is worth letting go of certain instant gratification independent woman luxuries”

    Am I hearing an either/or limiting belief, that I can either have my femininity or get manicures at the salon, but not both?

    I ask because a fundamental intention of HBR is to get rid of the idea of sacrifice altogether, and turn either/ors into both/ands … even if I’m supported by a man, I still want to get manicures at the salon 🙂



  282.  #282Erika Awakening on August 22, 2010 at 7:23 pm

    I kinda feel like Rosa Parks is the epitome of the power of feminine energy.

    Part of me felt Rosa Parks energy when I put my feet solid into the ground about no sex without commitment.

    The hailstorm came for weeks, and then when I just kept standing my ground, he shifted completely.

    I feel very pleased with myself 🙂 LOL 🙂



  283.  #283Erika Awakening on August 22, 2010 at 7:30 pm

    Rosa Parks said NO to what she didn’t want … and she changed a nation …

    We can change the world …



  284.  #284joan on August 22, 2010 at 7:43 pm

    Joan, calling him “near perfect” was just my way of saying there was no good reason for me to break up with him. I feel a little frustrated here.

    Lucy, I feel frustrated, too. M wasn’t perfect; he wasn’t even “near perfect”, and neither are TN man and WH. There was some “good reason” you broke up with M even if you weren’t aware of it consciously. That is why I think that TN and WH have made their way into your life – to help you find it and finally let it go.



  285.  #285Nikita on August 22, 2010 at 7:47 pm

    Erika 😉

    No, I could get my nails done. That’s what my reference to challenges is about; communicating authentically and making requests. I have an open hair appointment at the moment so my mind is on salons 🙂 Getting that was quite the fun dance! But I’ve yet to……it’s raining, Etc.
    Sigh; I’ll confess I got diamond earrings recently and maybe I have “limits” on how much/how often…. But the nail thing doesn’t feel as important to me these days…..I was once the girl that became despondent after two-three weeks without a manicure. . But I worked really hard then and NEEDED that kind of pampering constantly because I was so angry about work.
    If there’s something limited here it would be about asking/receiving/prioritizing. Asking-



  286.  #286Nikita on August 22, 2010 at 7:49 pm

    I feel a little sad writing that while Dorothea seems to be dealing with much weightier and urgent things 🙁



  287.  #287dorothea on August 22, 2010 at 7:52 pm

    Nikita, this will be a factor in my life so long as i do the work i do. there is no urgency. write on.

    i have a nail salon addiction and I recently gave up the manicure side of things…but i’m still into pedicures and pretty flowers on my toes with sparkles and i will NEVER give it up. I let LI know about this and he laughed and said he was comfortable with this and would shoulder my salon addiction when we’re married if it makes me happy.



  288.  #288Nikita on August 22, 2010 at 8:04 pm

    Thx Dorothea,

    Pedicures seem way more important. I could use a foot rub. The lady I love is two hours from me:(

    She is wonderful. How do I express in feeling messages that I need a pedicure? Isn’t that asking? There’s something going on 😉



  289.  #289dorothea on August 22, 2010 at 8:07 pm

    I think it’s okay to ask for something. But it feels freakin weird. i have never really asked my LI for anything but when he gets a better job I will be asking for waxing appointments “down there.” It feels a little easier to ask him for that because he benefits directly from it;)

    ‘I feel sad and torn…it makes me feel so good to have my feet all pretty and professionally decorated but i don’t feel justified spending that kind of money on myself.”

    maybe just throw that out there and see if he offers.



  290.  #290Erika Awakening on August 22, 2010 at 8:11 pm

    Hmmmm, I’m hearing some limiting beliefs about money that may be making it more challenging to ask for something …

    I’m imagining this … and feeling that I’d feel imprisoned if I felt I couldn’t ask … it’d be like returning to my god-awful stifling childhood. I refuse to do that.

    There must a better feeling option here… I’m going to percolate with this a bit.

    I told VG that I will keep my coaching practice no matter what, because it lights me up inside and my passion is my radiance …

    I definitely do not like the idea of asking permission to spend money … that feels very stifling to me.



  291.  #291Nikita on August 22, 2010 at 8:12 pm

    I feel there are limits-I’m not married to my LI. But if I was the salon thing would be a given for me 🙂 but I’m not, so a little confused. But i feel wonderful about the progress I’m making these days with my comfort zone……all things considered. Ok, I am Trying to watch a movie so I am putting the gadget down 🙂 for now



  292.  #292Nikita on August 22, 2010 at 8:17 pm

    Btw-I have moods where I can ask…….and then moods where I feel too prideful 🙂

    Since you’re percolating; I like my coffee strong, bold, no sugar. Lol! Jk 😉



  293.  #293Erika Awakening on August 22, 2010 at 8:17 pm

    Dorothea, I’m glad someone is going to “shoulder” something for you … may many more shoulders appear for your work life too, a whole army of men shouldering all the weight 😉



  294.  #294dorothea on August 22, 2010 at 8:18 pm

    my ex gave me diamonds, and he also once gave me money for a manicure and looking back i can see i felt undeserving or blocked on this issue because i called up my girl and treated HER to a manicure alongside me.

    he made 6 figures and money was a constant issue. he basically looked down on me for coming from a poor upbringing.



  295.  #295dorothea on August 22, 2010 at 8:19 pm

    yes yes i love my manly volunteers, even the gay ones, their masculine energy is so no-nonsense and to the point, and it feels easy to work with.



  296.  #296Erika Awakening on August 22, 2010 at 8:24 pm

    Czech Girl and I are considering to go to a yoga retreat in Bali in November. She sent me the website, and it looks heavenly. A week of yoga and being pampered sounds like a dream come true right now 🙂

    Now see if I were married already, I simply would not be okay with not being able to go to something like this if I felt called to go to it …

    Ask and you will receive. I’m simply determined to remove every limiting belief from my mind, so that I can ask at any time for anything … and the answer is always YES. 🙂



  297.  #297dorothea on August 22, 2010 at 8:34 pm

    my LI emailed me a poem he wrote while hanging out with me yesterday at a work-related event. it is so lovely and sincere. it makes me want to be the girl he’s writing about in his poem. and then i’m like oh that’s right…he wrote that about me! hehe



  298.  #298Lucy on August 22, 2010 at 8:47 pm

    WH was a stay-at-home dad for 3 yrs while his wife worked. Does that make him a non-masculine energy man?



  299.  #299Lucy on August 22, 2010 at 8:49 pm

    I like that, Erika. I want the answer to always be yes, too.



  300.  #300Erika Awakening on August 22, 2010 at 9:02 pm

    Lucy,

    I just saw this ACIM quote and it felt very synchronistic:

    “God is not mocked; no more His [Daughter] can be imprisoned save by [her] own desire.”

    I saw another quote too and it made me realize I have to quit my job.



  301.  #301Erika Awakening on August 22, 2010 at 9:05 pm

    ‎”There can be no case against a child of God, and every witness to guilt in God’s creations is bearing false witness to God Himself.” – ACIM



  302.  #302Erika Awakening on August 22, 2010 at 9:57 pm

    I have a fun game we could play on one of these threads, if anyone else wants to join me. I’m going to call it “Reframing Silence”

    I’ve been practicing this game lately around silences with a man, because it seems so often a negative interpretation is put on “not hearing from a man,” but what if there’s a better way …

    So I’m doing the “what if” game …

    What if silence means he loves me and he doesn’t need to say it?

    What if silence means he’s planning a romantic surprise for us and building suspense?

    What if silence means he’s busy working hard on something that is for both of us?

    What if silence means that God wants me to get more present instead of worrying about a man?

    What if silence means there’s going to be some delicious plot twist that makes an already amazing situation even MORE amazing?

    🙂



  303.  #303Nikita on August 22, 2010 at 9:57 pm

    Guilt….blech!!! :/



  304.  #304Jacqueline on August 22, 2010 at 10:01 pm

    Dorothea….not to worry, it’s NOT the Erika show, it’s just a slow Sunday….lol….

    I feel for you, my best friend hits her head on the wall and stuff, I can’t imagine it, I’d just yell and kick someone else if I felt like that.

    You can do this, you may be tired and discouraged right now, this minute, but that doesn’t mean you’ll stay that way…..the universe and hopefully some more sirens will prop you up.

    I feel distressed when sirens post stuff like they’ve been in jail, or are hitting their heads against a wall and we all don’t respond with compassion. I feel humiliated for us as a group, and when a call for help like that goes out, I want it to be heard and held sacred here.

    So Dorothea I HEAR you……and I will hold the space where I KNOW you will make miracles happen.

    To paraphrase Marianne Williamson….it’s not our playing small that scares us but when we feel/see/sense how truly POWERFUL we are, and answer that call….that’s when we change the world.

    And even if you don’t change the world, you will have changed you….and that is what life is for, yes?

    Sending you waves of peace and big sighs of relaxation…..

    You know Rori’s tool of just letting the air feel on your skin? try that….try being the cat…and I always get my toes done!!! It’s the best…and glad to see you lightened up a bit towards the end….

    What do you think? and please keep us updated on the work – too cool!

    Take care all, night,
    Jacqueline



  305.  #305Erika Awakening on August 22, 2010 at 10:05 pm

    Lol, yeah, I guess I feel a little guilt too …

    I essentially spent my Sunday vision boarding on Rori’s blog … feeling bashful



  306.  #306Nikita on August 22, 2010 at 10:06 pm

    What if….silence….is love/truth just percolating? The heart’s alchemy?

    What if silence is just contrast for me to get clearer on our desires.



  307.  #307Erika Awakening on August 22, 2010 at 10:08 pm

    “What if….silence….is love/truth just percolating?”

    oooooh, I like this, Nikita …

    what if silence is the space God needs to rearrange the puzzle pieces so all my dreams come true?



  308.  #308Nikita on August 22, 2010 at 10:10 pm

    What if silence is the space you need………..?



  309.  #309Erika Awakening on August 22, 2010 at 10:12 pm

    I like it ….

    what if silence is the space I need to resolve any remaining fears or doubts and know for certain whether he is the man for me?



  310.  #310Nikita on August 22, 2010 at 10:12 pm

    Huh…vision boarding on a blog seems like a good way to harness some collective energy…..almost like the AMAZING compounding penny….. But not quite 😉

    I feel almost driven to boycott guilt.



  311.  #311Nikita on August 22, 2010 at 10:30 pm

    I am watching wormholes on the science channel….they also covered black holes 🙂
    ….creating shortcuts across time and space ……yes!



  312.  #312Erika Awakening on August 22, 2010 at 10:34 pm

    Cool, I like time/space travel 🙂

    I’m getting present with a truckload of guilt that just got triggered by … not sure what … feels like searing hot spikes in my solar plexus … blech is right

    Good night, Sirens.



  313.  #313Nikita on August 22, 2010 at 10:35 pm

    Oops, not the science channel the discovery channel.



  314.  #314Nikita on August 22, 2010 at 10:37 pm

    Nite



  315.  #315Jennifer on August 23, 2010 at 4:10 am

    I feel sad and deflated.
    I feel annoyed.
    Why do I always feel annoyed at my feelings?
    Thats stupid.
    It’s not good self mothering
    Judo man is not coming to my cheesecake soiree. It’s his sister’s birthday ….I said I felt dissapointed but also respectful of the brother sister thing
    which is because my brother called me on sat and told me he’s a dumbass
    he went shopping for a birthday present for me and ended up buying himself a super cool zombie defence league tshirt but didn’t get one for me. For which he feels like a dumbass.
    Of course I laughed and said I loved him
    I feel differently
    I am annoyed at me for not being more honest with my brother.
    Why do I do this
    This is first day Rori stuff.
    Be honest with your feelings.
    No wonder I’m sucking at dating
    I’m on the Rori short bus.
    I’ve got a sign pinned to my shirt that says “If found to be emotionally dishonest, return to siren Island immediatly”
    Do we have a special needs class here on the island?
    Frig.



  316.  #316Jennifer on August 23, 2010 at 4:16 am

    I feel jealous of Judo man’s sister.
    HER brother cancells plans to make sure he shows up for her birthday…he brings gifts.
    Good gifts..he’s giving her pot and cash. She has chrone’s…so he went out and got a licence to sell pot legally so he could help look after his sister.
    MY brother buys himself a tshirt and calls me to tell me about it.
    I feel sinking in my belly
    I feel small and sad
    I feel pouty
    I feel annoyed.
    I feel annoyed at my annoyance.
    Hey it’s OK to feel sad cause my brother is a dumbass
    it’s normal..right?
    I have a hormonal imbalance…maybe I’ll go back to bowen…I’ve had 3 periods in 6 weeks…BOOOOO



  317.  #317Jennifer on August 23, 2010 at 4:28 am

    Where did you come from?
    Nasty little feeling?
    Where did you start you little “I get the short stick” feeling?
    I see you there in the corner of my mind.
    You have to leave now.
    Yer friggin with my vibe.
    My LOA is ALLLLLL frigged up cause of you.
    I don’t want my LOA alll frigged up.
    You!
    Get out!!!!!



  318.  #318janjune on August 23, 2010 at 4:43 am

    hi jennifer!
    sounds like you’ve had a rough night…
    really getting down on yourself…

    can’t tell whether you just want to vent but if you want to talk, i’m here for about 20 min..



  319.  #319janjune on August 23, 2010 at 5:30 am

    @jacqueline

    didn’t know what a koan was, looked it up on wiki….

    Yes! that’s how it feels!”
    “fundamental part of the history and lore of Zen Buddhism. It consists of a story, dialogue, question, or statement, the meaning of which cannot be understood by rational thinking but may be accessible through intuition.”
    and
    “…in the beginning a monk first thinks a kōan is an inert object upon which to focus attention; after a long period of consecutive repetition, one realizes that the kōan is also a dynamic activity, the very activity of seeking an answer to the kōan. The kōan is both the object being sought and the relentless seeking itself. In a kōan, the self sees the self not directly but under the guise of the kōan… When one realizes (“makes real”) this identity, then two hands have become one. The practitioner becomes the kōan that he or she is trying to understand. That is the sound of one hand.” — G. Victor Sogen Hori, Translating the Zen Phrase Book[10]”
    and
    “In the Wumenguan (Mumonkan), public case #1 (“Zhaozhou’s Dog”), Wumen (Mumon) wrote “…concentrate yourself into this ‘Wú’… making your whole body one great inquiry. Day and night work intently at it. Do not attempt nihilistic or dualistic interpretations.”[3] Arousing this great inquiry or “Great Doubt” is an essential element of kōan practice.”

    so even though i’ve tried off and on for years to understand what Zen is, i think i finally got a good glimpse here
    thank you so much for this information….
    you just added a further dimension to what im already experiencing.

    love, janjune

    p.s.
    lso:
    “Dōgen Zenji wrote of Genjokōan, which points out that everyday life experience is the fundamental kōan. Hakuin Ekaku recommended preparing for kōan practice by concentrating on qi breathing and its effect on the body’s center of gravity, called the dantian or “hara” in Japanese — thereby associating kōan practice with pre-existing Taoist and Yogic chakra meditative practices.[citation needed]”

    jacqueline, have you found these to be helpful? if so, would you mind sharing which one in particular you like?
    thanks again for the connection… i feel very very heard and sincerely “felt” in this by you.



  320.  #320Simply Shannon on August 23, 2010 at 6:40 am

    Just popping on for a minute as my work day begins. I’ve loved reading these posts. We all seem to be on the cusp of huge shifts in our lives.

    Jennifer: How would it feel to say “thank you brother for showing me something I needed to see in order to heal”? That’s a pretty good present even if it came wrapped in not so pretty paper. I’m praying things shift for you. You really are amazing in a thousand-million ways. And yes you are normal. (((HUGS))) Vacation in t-minus four days, yes?

    Nikita: Reframe on #290. YES I could get my nails done but I’m choosing to do something else. How does that feel? Don’t know why but the “no” jumped out at me.

    Lucy: Mountaintop by Robert Whitlow. Praying for you.

    Erika: Still holding space and appreciating you. I keep wanting to put you on a pedestal and to give back to you (aka don’t give too much, hope you don’t start resenting what you’re giving.) Hello limiting belief. I’m choosing to trust that you’ll let us know if/when you need to pull back. I feel uncomfortable about that. Sitting with it. Resisting the urge to make you feel “better”. Interesting. And very uncomfortable.

    Ok, must run off to work. Sending blessings and love, Shannon



  321.  #321Simply Shannon on August 23, 2010 at 6:44 am

    “I would rather live in a world where my life is surrounded by mystery than live in a world so small that my mind could comprehend it.”

    — Harry Emerson Fosdick

    Anne Rice mentioned a quote in her video at iamsecond.com. She quotes a character in a drama saying “The world was made when I was born”. I love that. Isn’t that how we all see it?



  322.  #322dorothea on August 23, 2010 at 8:04 am

    I leaned forward this morning. I bought an extra coffee and a cinammon roll at my spot this morning and surprised my LI with it. He catches the bus to work right underneath my office window.

    This is the first time I’ve ever done anything like that for him, and I don’t feel weird about it at all.

    I resisted the consistent urge to do this sort of thing in the past, because Rori is wise and she advises against it, ESPECIALLY if you are doing it to keep the boat rowing, or are attached to the outcome in any way. I always felt like deep down I was doing it to make him like me more, so I never went through with such a gesture.

    But this morning it just felt like a nice, natural thing to do out of the blue. I am so grateful and relieved that I am in touch with my real feelings and motives, and I am very practiced at this point, that I no longer have to abstain from being generous to a man I care about as a hard and fast rule. I just need to check in with myself and ask myself “why do I feel compelled to lean forward right now?” And if the reason has to do with a fear or my own self esteem, then I don’t lean forward.

    Otherwise, I’m a rockstar, baby:)



  323.  #323Mercedes on August 23, 2010 at 8:16 am

    Dorothea: “I am so grateful and relieved that I am in touch with my real feelings and motives, and I am very practiced at this point, that I no longer have to abstain from being generous to a man I care about as a hard and fast rule. I just need to check in with myself and ask myself “why do I feel compelled to lean forward right now?” And if the reason has to do with a fear or my own self esteem, then I don’t lean forward.”

    I love this. I too lean forward sometimes…and sometimes it feels really, really good to do that…and sometimes not so much. I agree…if we check in with ourselves first and find out what our motives are then it is soooo much more comfortable to make a decision about just how much we want to give. I think this applies to love, work, friendships, etc. You made me smile because you put into words what I think so much of the time.

    Thank you!

    Much Love,
    Mercedes



  324.  #324Nikita on August 23, 2010 at 8:18 am

    Dorothea,

    As I read about the cinnamon bun 🙂 I felt immense appreciation for Rori’s;
    Have the Relationship you didn’t know you wanted with yourself 🙂 and bloom all over …..as you get more intimate/learn to be more intimate with yourselves….



  325.  #325Nikita on August 23, 2010 at 8:27 am

    Simply Shannon,

    Thx, that is true…….I have been doing other things instead of my nails. It doesn’t feel as important to me. . .like starbucks 🙂 everyday! Which is weird, I used to avoid starbucks and get “cheap” coffee on my way to the salon 🙂



  326.  #326Erika Awakening on August 23, 2010 at 8:29 am

    “Joan, the Baby HBR thing was simply an acknowledgment of the real difference between the two practices — both for the sake of clarity and to respect Erika’s work.”

    Lucy, thank you — when I read this, I felt very respected and seen. I really appreciate it.

    “Erika: Still holding space and appreciating you. I keep wanting to put you on a pedestal and to give back to you (aka don’t give too much, hope you don’t start resenting what you’re giving.) Hello limiting belief. I’m choosing to trust that you’ll let us know if/when you need to pull back. I feel uncomfortable about that. Sitting with it. Resisting the urge to make you feel “better”. Interesting. And very uncomfortable.”

    Shannon, I really appreciated your authenticity here. It’s my responsibility to stay present enough to notice if I have resentment or exhaustion cropping up, and to set my own boundaries. Living that way is with the intention of others feeling guilt-free around me because I have not made them responsible for my feelings. This is one of many things I learned from Non-Violent Communication.

    I’m still not sure why I keep feeling drawn back here, and I’m willing to follow that intuition and see what it wants to tell me. I do feel an intuition that I would really like to be collaborating with Rori and other coaches because I see HBR as a complement to their methods. It’s not a replacement for Rori’s teachings. It’s a way to integrate what she’s teaching more quickly.

    Femininity is really a VIBE. It’s not so much what you do or say. And that vibe needs to feel congruent to attract the most masculine, strong men. HBR is fantastic for integrating new knowledge and a crystal clear vibe in an organic way that feels seamless to other people.

    Example: Non-violent communication is a fantastic tool for life. Yet I went to practice groups for OVER A YEAR and I still felt clumsy in my use of it after all that time and energy spent. I still felt like I wasn’t really using it in a way to get the deep connection I wanted with other people. Suddenly I got the idea to use HBR to integrate the NVC knowledge. Bingo. My NVC fluency skyrocketed almost overnight, and I suddenly “got it.”

    With this feminine vibe stuff, what I’ve found is that it becomes so much easier when it’s really integrated into my vibe. For example, there’s no question anymore EVER in my mind about asking a guy out. I simply no longer ever would want to do that. It feels exhausting. It feels like doing all the work for him. It feels unfeminine. And since I don’t feel like it, I don’t have to go round and round in my head anymore … I’m now in touch enough with the feminine vibe to “just say no” to men who won’t step up … deep down, I know I only want to marry a VERY masculine man … so I simply eliminate the guys who don’t step up from contention.

    This once was difficult. Now it’s easy. I believe HBR is what made it easy to integrate the core of what Rori is teaching.

    So to me, it would be super fun to do collaborations, such as feminine energy teleclasses, with part teaching of Rori’s principles, and part HBR integration of those principles. Now I really am vision boarding out loud … I never know what I’m going to write before the words actually come out, lol … and of course I have no idea whether this is something that would be interesting to Rori.



  327.  #327dorothea on August 23, 2010 at 9:36 am

    Speaking of nails, my girl and I are going to get pedicures in a few minutes 😀 Monday lunch break pedicures.

    My boss informs me that he is not only going to be MIA most the week from the office, but that he also will be loaning me his car for about a week while he’s out of town to make my life easier since I am working 2 jobs and going to a GRE prep class in BFE (butt f*ckin egypt) and don’t own a car.

    So I am feeling much more relaxed compared to last night.



  328.  #328Laughing goddess on August 23, 2010 at 10:09 am

    Omg! I’m just catching up on the posts and kind of freaking out as I read Dorothea and Erika’s exhange because I woke up with this crazy intense shoulder pain. We had a long band practice last night and now my shoulder hurts soooo bad. If I try to move my left arm at alll, I get this searing pain shooting through my arm.

    Ummmm WTF?

    I feel very curious and slightly tripped out by the synchronicity.



  329.  #329Laughing goddess on August 23, 2010 at 10:18 am

    Erika: I love the what if game! I play it with myself too.

    Your reframes about silence feel good and entirely possible.

    Btw, last night after practice I went to a party with LI and the guy I’ve been talking about that I feel an attraction for. That’s tripping me out too now. We’re all buds and hanging out. It feels a little weird but also cool like I’m having my cake and eating it too…sort of.



  330.  #330Laughing goddess on August 23, 2010 at 10:19 am

    My shoulder still hurts. Intense searing pain. Ahhhhh ouch!



  331.  #331Brenda on August 23, 2010 at 10:32 am

    LG – Are you going to see a chiropractor.



  332.  #332Laughing goddess on August 23, 2010 at 10:51 am

    Brenda: no, I hadn’t even thought about going to a chiropractor. It feels like muscle pain. I was playing drums long and hard last night.

    I also feel curious if it has something to do with shouldering to much responsibility. I can’t see where it applies directly to the band but I can see it in other areas of my life.

    In fact, LI and I got in an argument yesterday because we were leaving and he was locking to door to my house and there was a problem with the key and I got really triggered. The way he said there was a problem felt very blamey and I got pissed…like why do I have to handle this? You’re the man, can’t you take care of it. I never have problems with the key. And it reminded me of a similar situation I had with an ex when the shower was overflowing and we got in the worst fight ever that night and I threw a plate at him (this was a long time ago…I feel embarassed).

    The argument yesterday didn’t really escalate to much. We got over it and had a great day together.

    But…to answer your question…hadn’t considered a chiropractor as it feels like a torn muscle and I don’t know if they could help that. Do feel curious about carrying too mug weight on my shoulders.



  333.  #333Jacqueline on August 23, 2010 at 10:55 am

    Hi, all!

    @ Dorothea – did you see my post, where did all the fear go? You sound like a different person – just interested if it’s transformation or you’re just ignoring the other???

    @janjune….a koan to me is a question with literally no answer – the western version of it I heard when I was in grade school – if a tree falls in a forest, and no one is there to hear it, is there a sound. I thought that felt tricky! as obviously there are sound waves, no matter what – anyway that’s what I said in fifth grade. grin…what is the sound of one hand clapping is probably the most eastern koan I know of – I love the quotes you’ve found.

    The making you life one big inquiry WITHOUT going into dualism is the one that resonates most with me, but it’s kind of far from what people talk about koans as. Have you ever looked up dualism and/or the tao, or dao? Esp. dualism….it’s kind of what the human mind DOES whether we like it or not, we are remarkably similar to computers – we function by comparison and contrast – I like this I don’t like that, this is different from that because….

    and we’re unaware of it for the most part. Enlightenment is usually said to be when we do become aware of it and transcend it, to a all is one place.

    If you wanna talk more email me at houstonrelationshipsurvey@yahoo.com, I don’t wanna go on and on about abstract stuff when this is mostly for peoples concrete stories here.

    I’ll give you a hug….no abstraction at all!!! And five fabulous stars for wrapping your mind around such zenness!!!



  334.  #334Jacqueline on August 23, 2010 at 10:57 am

    @ LG….wow, I ummmm think we’re going for empathy here, that means you don’t really have to shoulder us! lol and I hope you’re better quick – guitar playing arm???

    @ Brenda – Hello I thought of some other darling word for you….but dang it….what was it? Cuter than cheeky but do you like cheeky??!!!1

    xoxo



  335.  #335Jacqueline on August 23, 2010 at 11:18 am

    LG – shoulder blade pain or top of the shoulder – I’d bet it’s about 1/2 way down your shoulder, the rotator cuff? Anyway, ice is a miracle worker…ice pack no more than 20 minutes, if you use heat it pulls blood into the muscle and relaxes it, but ice makes it “go back into place” pretty much. I hope you try it it really is the most amazing and overlooked treatment out there.

    Take care,
    J



  336.  #336Laughing goddess on August 23, 2010 at 11:48 am

    Hi Jaqueline:

    Drums! Not guitar 🙂

    it’s the muscle right at the top of my arm…whatever the muscle is right above the bicep.

    I’m at the store right now to buy some apple cider vinegar to soak in a bath with. Tried arnica cream. Helped for a sex but not really. Will try the ice.

    Intense pain! Can’t lift my arm over my head. LI had to take my shirt off for me and my bra too. He didn’t seem to mind that job. 🙂 and then he tried to help me but my hair in a ponytail but some things are a girls job.

    Can’t wait to soak in the tub and meditate on letting the pain melt away.

    I have practice again tonight. I feel worried about showing up and not being able to play fully. I feel worried about letting the band down.



  337.  #337Jacqueline on August 23, 2010 at 11:55 am

    LG – hey, ice is a miracle but I’d put it in a sling and drum one armed if I were you and it’s not sig. better by tonite! – you tear a ligament and it’ll take weeks to heal or not heal at all….I understand your fear for your “team/band,” tho…

    btw< arnica helps for SEX!!! tooo cool….I only ever used it for bruising.

    Grins…

    J



  338.  #338AmberS on August 23, 2010 at 11:55 am

    Wow Sirens! I feel so blessed and lucky (and deserving!?!?! Wow that’s surprising and cool!) to be learning from how this blog worked through things and came out into the current peace. LG, Dorothea, SS and Erika- thank you for all being so present. It was almost just too much for me, but you all stayed with it and it’s been amazing to follow along and learn.
    I wonder if the shift was just in me or if Erika shifted her communication style- either way, I can hear you so much better now. I want to email Erika directly, but I am feeling like that is not necessary, it’s just that I want to elaborate on the “I GET IT NOW!!!!” part, so saying it here is good.

    I get it now.

    I wouldn’t have if you all had given up, or if even ONE of you had given up. I would have been stuck and I feel tears of relief and gratitude and a little sadness that I have lost all that time that I wasn’t understanding.

    Thank you.



  339.  #339Nikita on August 23, 2010 at 12:03 pm

    LG,

    Do you have any Kosher salt to with that vinegar? Or sea salt/coarse salt-.

    🙂



  340.  #340Erika Awakening on August 23, 2010 at 12:06 pm

    Super quick lunch post..

    Amber, anger is block to communication so from my perspective had to get present w that and clear it before anyone would feel heard …

    I’m getting present w feelings around ‘shouldering’ too much responsibility … In NVC we learned that offering ‘strategies’ is a way of not being present w feelings. So I’m holding space …

    Empathically picking up anger now which shows up as lower back pain …



  341.  #341Laughing goddess on August 23, 2010 at 12:15 pm

    Haha! Arnica helped for a sec not sex!



  342.  #342Laughing goddess on August 23, 2010 at 12:26 pm

    Amber: I feel touched and melty reading your post. It felt challenging for me to go into my anger and reveal my “ugly” side in public but I felt safe doing it here because that’s part of the process with Rori’s work. It feels so helpful to hear that the process was helpful for others as well. I feel sad hearing about your sadness about the time that you missed out on by not understanding. I feel remember of an Abraham mantra…”I am where I am and it’s okay”.

    Nikita: yes salt! Thanks for the suggestion. Using my iced chai latte right now as an ice pac. 🙂

    Erika: thanks for holding space. I want to sit and be present with the pain but feeling pressure because I’m in town running errands. Obviously they’re not too urgent because I’m finding time to post here but not finding time to just be present with the pain. OMG! It hurts so bad! I don’t tend to have problems with my physical body often. This feels intense and kind of shocking.



  343.  #343Jason Miller on August 23, 2010 at 12:36 pm

    Re: 331: Erika Awakening

    Femininity is really a VIBE. It’s not so much what you do or say. And that vibe needs to feel congruent to attract the most masculine, strong men. HBR is fantastic for integrating new knowledge and a crystal clear vibe in an organic way that feels seamless to other people.

    This is precisely why a man can be drawn to women that are not his “type.” I know a woman who’s in a relationship with a guy that even I can see is much better looking than she is. But she is so rock solid in her femininity AND sexuality that I get turned on just being around her. She is not at all my physical type, but I know that if I were alone with her I’d want to jump her.

    Men can feel this vibe UPON FIRST SEEING the woman. I can walk into a room and know instantly which women I want to get closer to. About a week ago, I was at a bar with some male friends and sure enough, there was a woman who was not my type, but I knew I wanted to get to know her. I started talking to her, felt very attracted, and got her number.

    Yes, we men are driven by looks in many ways, but many of us know it’s not the only thing that makes us feel good as a man. We love to appreciate your femininity as much as you love to appreciate our masculinity. That’s the engine that keeps a relationship going! It’s also the driver for having a good sex life with your partner.

    With this feminine vibe stuff, what I’ve found is that it becomes so much easier when it’s really integrated into my vibe. For example, there’s no question anymore EVER in my mind about asking a guy out. I simply no longer ever would want to do that. It feels exhausting. It feels like doing all the work for him. It feels unfeminine. And since I don’t feel like it, I don’t have to go round and round in my head anymore … I’m now in touch enough with the feminine vibe to “just say no” to men who won’t step up … deep down, I know I only want to marry a VERY masculine man … so I simply eliminate the guys who don’t step up from contention.

    That’s why I say Erika’s fully in her feminine when it comes to men. She’s calling to them with her vibe to come over and see what might happen. And she’s free to choose and discard at any time for any reason. That’s where the balance of power lies. But to get there, you’ve got to clear out all the conditioning that’s been getting in your way. You’ve got to get your numbers up!



  344.  #344Lucy on August 23, 2010 at 12:37 pm

    I sometimes get shoulder pain in my belly dancing class. But just learned from my son’s thumb rehab (guitar stress), that it is from the nerves getting too tight. So now when I get pain, I gently stretch the nerves from my shoulder all the way to my finger tips.

    I wonder now, though, if the reason I get the pain in the first place is that whole weight of the world thing, too. Maybe the emotions of that cause the nerves to tighten and result in pain.



  345.  #345Jason Miller on August 23, 2010 at 12:38 pm

    Reposting because the quotes didn’t work.

    Re: 331: Erika Awakening

    Erika:
    “Femininity is really a VIBE. It’s not so much what you do or say. And that vibe needs to feel congruent to attract the most masculine, strong men. HBR is fantastic for integrating new knowledge and a crystal clear vibe in an organic way that feels seamless to other people.”

    This is precisely why a man can be drawn to women that are not his “type.” I know a woman who’s in a relationship with a guy that even I can see is much better looking than she is. But she is so rock solid in her femininity AND sexuality that I get turned on just being around her. She is not at all my physical type, but I know that if I were alone with her I’d want to jump her.

    Men can feel this vibe UPON FIRST SEEING the woman. I can walk into a room and know instantly which women I want to get closer to. About a week ago, I was at a bar with some male friends and sure enough, there was a woman who was not my type, but I knew I wanted to get to know her. I started talking to her, felt very attracted, and got her number.

    Yes, we men are driven by looks in many ways, but many of us know it’s not the only thing that makes us feel good as a man. We love to appreciate your femininity as much as you love to appreciate our masculinity. That’s the engine that keeps a relationship going! It’s also the driver for having a good sex life with your partner.

    Erika:
    “With this feminine vibe stuff, what I’ve found is that it becomes so much easier when it’s really integrated into my vibe. For example, there’s no question anymore EVER in my mind about asking a guy out. I simply no longer ever would want to do that. It feels exhausting. It feels like doing all the work for him. It feels unfeminine. And since I don’t feel like it, I don’t have to go round and round in my head anymore … I’m now in touch enough with the feminine vibe to “just say no” to men who won’t step up … deep down, I know I only want to marry a VERY masculine man … so I simply eliminate the guys who don’t step up from contention.”

    That’s why I say Erika’s fully in her feminine when it comes to men. She’s calling to them with her vibe to come over and see what might happen. And she’s free to choose and discard at any time for any reason. That’s where the balance of power lies. But to get there, you’ve got to clear out all the conditioning that’s been getting in your way. You’ve got to get your numbers up!



  346.  #346Jason Miller on August 23, 2010 at 12:38 pm

    Reposting because the quotes didn’t work.

    Re: 331: Erika Awakening

    Erika:
    “Femininity is really a VIBE. It’s not so much what you do or say. And that vibe needs to feel congruent to attract the most masculine, strong men. HBR is fantastic for integrating new knowledge and a crystal clear vibe in an organic way that feels seamless to other people.”

    This is precisely why a man can be drawn to women that are not his “type.” I know a woman who’s in a relationship with a guy that even I can see is much better looking than she is. But she is so rock solid in her femininity AND sexuality that I get turned on just being around her. She is not at all my physical type, but I know that if I were alone with her I’d want to jump her.

    Men can feel this vibe UPON FIRST SEEING the woman. I can walk into a room and know instantly which women I want to get closer to. About a week ago, I was at a bar with some male friends and sure enough, there was a woman who was not my type, but I knew I wanted to get to know her. I started talking to her, felt very attracted, and got her number.

    Yes, we men are driven by looks in many ways, but many of us know it’s not the only thing that makes us feel good as a man. We love to appreciate your femininity as much as you love to appreciate our masculinity. That’s the engine that keeps a relationship going! It’s also the driver for having a good sex life with your partner.

    Erika:
    “With this feminine vibe stuff, what I’ve found is that it becomes so much easier when it’s really integrated into my vibe. For example, there’s no question anymore EVER in my mind about asking a guy out. I simply no longer ever would want to do that. It feels exhausting. It feels like doing all the work for him. It feels unfeminine. And since I don’t feel like it, I don’t have to go round and round in my head anymore … I’m now in touch enough with the feminine vibe to “just say no” to men who won’t step up … deep down, I know I only want to marry a VERY masculine man … so I simply eliminate the guys who don’t step up from contention.”

    That’s why I say Erika’s fully in her feminine when it comes to men. She’s calling to them with her vibe to come over and see what might happen. And she’s free to choose and discard at any time for any reason. That’s where the balance of power lies. But to get there, you’ve got to clear out all the conditioning that’s been getting in your way. You’ve got to get your numbers up!



  347.  #347dorothea on August 23, 2010 at 1:01 pm

    I get some pain from playing the viola and fiddle. Mostly hand and elbow pain. I googled something like stretches for musicians and found helpful information that really does make me feel better.



  348.  #348janjune on August 23, 2010 at 1:07 pm

    jason

    wow, thank you for your comment.

    i can hear the respect and all out love you have for the feminine,
    i can feel the deliciousness you find in females and femininity and the “charge” the feminine counterpart to your masculinity imparts to you
    love it!
    thank you so very much for sharing that.

    i feel curious to know more about this very balanced very loving feeling man-view of yours!



  349.  #349janjune on August 23, 2010 at 1:33 pm

    reading your comments about feeling safe to explore dorothea, and your comments about safety to experience the ecstasy erika, just turned on another light bulb….

    i realize that’s why i don’t want to have sex until i’m married… i felt so free with my husband.
    there was something about him having made that commitment to me and ONLY me that gave me something i’d never experienced with anybody else. i honestly don’t know what to call it,… because almost from the beginning we did not have this type of compatibility in other areas of our marriage…

    but being married, for some reason, made me feel safe to “sink into” the feelings and the sensations and the feeling of being adored and “just gobbled up”.
    i felt ravished and ravishing.

    it feels puzzling…

    i was able to feel more deeply
    the purely sexual aspect
    AT THE SAME TIME i felt the body sensations
    AT THE SAME TIME THAT I FELT the love and admiration i felt for him
    AT THE SAME TIME I FELT whatever love and affection he felt for me
    AT THE SAME TIME….etc., etc., etc…

    married sex brought it all together for me even though i had felt SOME of these things in other relationships. i had never experienced them all at the same time in such tenderness and safety.

    so i don’t get it…
    did he make me feel safe?
    or did i make myself feel safe?
    was it both?

    he loved being together in that way
    i always felt him being PRESENT! with me.
    i did (virtually) ALWAYS feel him being present with me… And not using me as a device to get this _________—.
    i mean i know he was having fantasies sometimes, but that didn’t and doesn’t feel like any big deal, i had them too, but we were still together, sharing our fantasies together … i didn’t feel threatened by that or unsafe or unloved, just felt like a part of normal human sexuality
    oh thank you thank you thank you!, mr. dear exhusband!!!
    that feels like a gift now.
    at the time it just felt like a great time with the man i had opened my heart and life to.
    but i’m seeing how great that felt to know you had opened yourself to making the decision to be there with me… ONLY me, not just at THAT moment, but in the future also.
    i felt and also now recognize the safety in you having demonstrated the fact that
    you CHOSE TO
    C L O S E O U T
    ALL YOUR OTHER OPTIONS WITH OTHER WOMEN AND BE ONLY WITH ME!!!
    That feels safe to me, for me. That feels good.
    I feel safe, special, recognized, given accurate valuation by this decision

    BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!

    FOR ME, this is why i’m not interested in anything but married sex…

    whooppeee!! i didn’t know why…

    i mean men tried to make me feel this way before when i had sex with them and we were in love but it just wasn’t there for me.

    i also sit here realizing that i could marry a man who does NOT make me feel this way EVEN THOUGH we ARE MARRIED.

    because right now i feel like
    having unmarried sex just doesn’t allow me to pull all the pieces together at one time.
    and i am also ACUTELY aware that
    having Married sex doesn’t *guarantee* that this will happen either…

    but there is an answer and I will find the answer
    i will know how to bring it all together when i need to…



  350.  #350janjune on August 23, 2010 at 1:38 pm

    boy energy revving up,
    moving me into getting some paperwork done…. 🙂



  351.  #351Jason Miller on August 23, 2010 at 1:38 pm

    Re: 353: janjune says:

    > wow, thank you for your comment.

    No problem!

    > i can hear the respect and all out love you have for the feminine,
    > i can feel the deliciousness you find in females and femininity and the
    > “charge” the feminine counterpart to your masculinity imparts to you
    > love it!
    > thank you so very much for sharing that.

    There is nothing more attractive to a man in his masculine than a woman in her feminine. We WANT to merge and dive into that energy. We WANT to ravish you. It’s the nature of the polarity of the masculine and feminine.

    > i feel curious to know more about this very balanced very loving
    > feeling man-view of yours!

    Man-view? Amusing choice of words. I got this point of view from lots of observation, study, therapy, and coaching. Once you can observe the masculine and feminine in action and in real time, then you can see very clearly how we’re MEANT to connect with each other instead of how we THINK we’re supposed to connect.



  352.  #352janjune on August 23, 2010 at 1:41 pm

    jason–

    i mean the man-view thing as a joke.



  353.  #353janjune on August 23, 2010 at 1:43 pm

    well, no, maybe i did mean manview,

    your voice sounds very balanced, like i said, very loving but also very masculine, encompassing all that masculinity is to me,
    tenderness, strength, nurturing, firm senitive sensible

    i hope to keep posting here…

    I could definitely use a real man’s point of view.



  354.  #354janjune on August 23, 2010 at 1:45 pm

    We WANT to merge and dive into that energy. We WANT to ravish you. It’s the nature of the polarity of the masculine and feminine.

    ooooohhhh, gives me mermaid chills!!!



  355.  #355janjune on August 23, 2010 at 1:46 pm

    boy energy calling my name…..

    bye!



  356.  #356Lucy on August 23, 2010 at 2:03 pm

    Still not able to let go of wanting WH….

    I’m pretty sure I was all-feminine energy when I was with him….



  357.  #357dorothea on August 23, 2010 at 2:15 pm

    Lucy, I always feel so triggered when I see you thinking so much about one man in particular, like WH or TN Man. Gosh. I’m sorry, girl:( This is your business but I feel protective. And frustrated. I feel frustrated seeing you worry about a man who isn’t in front of you or worth your time because like Rori says, his fundamental flaw is that he’s not way into you.

    I want to beat him up.

    I want to shake you.

    Violence is not cool but I have so much of it inside of me.

    Hello triggers and violence. How ya doing today?

    What do you think I should do, Lucy? What would you like me to do? Just give you the room to post about WH? Or tell you that if he’s not calling, then he sucks, who cares, get over it?



  358.  #358Lucy on August 23, 2010 at 2:29 pm

    Dorothea, what I would like is for you to not judge either the men or me. Judging is not helpful. Ever.

    I also feel unheard and not understood (re: #361).

    I feel better when there is an empathic, compassionate vibe in other siren’s responses.

    I don’t want to go back to the vibe that was here before.



  359.  #359Jason Miller on August 23, 2010 at 2:31 pm

    Re: 357: janjune says:

    > jason–
    >
    > i mean the man-view thing as a joke.

    No worries. I took it that way. I thought it was cute.

    > your voice sounds very balanced, like i said, very loving but also
    > very masculine, encompassing all that masculinity is to me,
    > tenderness, strength, nurturing, firm senitive sensible

    Thank you. I appreciate that.

    >> We WANT to merge and dive into that energy. We WANT to ravish
    >> you. It’s the nature of the polarity of the masculine and feminine.

    > ooooohhhh, gives me mermaid chills!!!

    Yeah, I wish I could say that was my metaphor, but I learned that one from David Deida. Takes a lot of effort to internalize it though. We just don’t start out that way in modern society, particularly Generation X, IMO.



  360.  #360Lucy on August 23, 2010 at 2:32 pm

    And, since you asked, I would also like you to consider the reality that this is a trigger for YOU and has nothing to do with me. It is mirroring something inside of you that needs healing.



  361.  #361dorothea on August 23, 2010 at 2:58 pm

    Lucy, I feel frustrated because I am sensing you feel defensive, which doesn’t feel like the appropriate response to someone telling you they want to cater to what YOU would like to feel comfortable.

    maybe i just suck at communicating

    omg i feel really negative voicey toward myself. i actually feel like i am going to burst into tears and i feel hateful toward myself.



  362.  #362Jason Miller on August 23, 2010 at 2:59 pm

    Re: 362, 363: knocksoftly says:

    > I feel frustrated. Trying to lean back and not chase my
    > ex. This is the way to go but it feels uncomfortable. I
    > don’t wanna miss him. I feel angry he deleted me from
    > his fb friends. I feel furious he is not chasing me.
    > Uggghhhhhh. This is like a freakin detox. I don’t like it.
    > I don’t wanna feel this way. I want to chase his butt
    > down. BUT that does not work. What do you sirens
    > think?
    >
    > Not about chasing him down, lmao. That is not an
    > option. What do you think might help me lean
    > back….way back…..like to ZERO.

    Here’s the non-siren opinion, if you’re open to it. I don’t know the history of your relationship. My gut tells me you were dumped, but I might be wrong about that. In any case, it doesn’t matter. The ego hates losing what it thinks was a good thing. That’s what’s giving you that feeling you’re in detox. It’s your ego’s rage over your ex taking the relationship away. It feels very unpleasant and nasty probably. (I was dumped last May myself by a girlfriend who I put on the marriage track, so I think this is universal and not male/female.)

    Now alongside this you may genuinely be missing him as a person and the connection you had, but that’s actually distinct from what the ego does. The ego wants to control the outcome and so that’s probably why you feel the urges to chase him and probably tell him he was wrong for leaving. In addition, your ego helps prevent you from feeling the pain of the loss by blocking your ability to feel grief. You have to get through the grief to healing before you can feel neutral toward him. Takes a while for the ego to loosen its grip over you before you can properly grieve. Stages of grief and all that.

    Let me know if that fits what you’re going through or not.



  363.  #363dorothea on August 23, 2010 at 3:00 pm

    I didn’t even say anything judgey to you! wht the hell lucy! now i feel misunderstood and you’re sounding like erika the yoda princess talkin about triggers and mirrors all of a sudden.

    i don’t feel very happy:( fuuu*uuck f*ck my life, holy cow this is not lucy’s fault, let me be clear, not lucy’s fault……..i’m just a miserable f*cking person:(



  364.  #364janjune on August 23, 2010 at 3:02 pm

    oh ——

    i just got the

    mermaid(bird,siren) /sailor /safety (both ways) analogy!

    THANK YOU
    ((((( JASON )))))
    FOR HELPING ME PROCESS THIS CONCEPT!!

    btw, while i do hope “to” keep posting here what i want to say was i hope *YOU* keep posting here…



  365.  #365Lucy on August 23, 2010 at 3:05 pm

    Jason, I really appreciate what you wrote here. This is helpful. The whole thing, and, what resonates with me the most:

    “You have to get through the grief to healing before you can feel neutral toward him. Takes a while for the ego to loosen its grip over you before you can properly grieve. Stages of grief and all that.”

    Thank you.



  366.  #366dorothea on August 23, 2010 at 3:06 pm

    I never even said anything judgmental, yet i am being judged as judgmental, and it feels crappy. and i am sick and tired of hearing about mirrors from people who aren’t even looking in the mirror themselves when they say that. omg!!! i feel angry and misunderstood and probably everyone is going to jump on me and tell me what a wretched failure i am at communicating

    this is fine
    you win.

    i’m leaving for now.



  367.  #367Lucy on August 23, 2010 at 3:09 pm

    Dorothea, I feel really confused. I thought you asked me what would be helpful to me, and that was what I was responding to — telling you what would help. I’m sorry if I misunderstood the question.



  368.  #368janjune on August 23, 2010 at 3:09 pm

    jason, i agree,
    to me it feels like in the midst of achieving equality as females, the gender polarity got sacrificed… nobody’s fault… it just seems to have been a casualty…
    ,
    thank God for dating coaches holding space (love that!) for those of us of both genders, who wish to find a more satisfying way of relating …



  369.  #369Jason Miller on August 23, 2010 at 3:26 pm

    > 371: janjune says:
    >
    > oh ——
    >
    > i just got the
    >
    > mermaid(bird,siren) /sailor /safety (both ways) analogy!
    >
    > THANK YOU
    > ((((( JASON )))))
    > FOR HELPING ME PROCESS THIS CONCEPT!!

    Sure. Ancient (and modern) myths and archetypes run deep.

    > btw, while i do hope “to” keep posting here what i want to say was i hope
    > *YOU* keep posting here…

    Sure. Happy to.

    > 372: Lucy says:
    >
    > Jason, I really appreciate what you wrote here. This is helpful. The whole
    > thing, and, what resonates with me the most:
    >
    > “You have to get through the grief to healing before you can feel neutral
    > toward him. Takes a while for the ego to loosen its grip over you before you
    > can properly grieve. Stages of grief and all that.”
    >
    > Thank you.

    Hey, no worries. It’s a critical skill to be able to observe your ego. It’s your reptilian brain operating in an internet world.

    > 375: janjune says:
    >
    > jason, i agree,
    > to me it feels like in the midst of achieving equality as females, the gender
    > polarity got sacrificed… nobody’s fault… it just seems to have been a
    > casualty…

    Well said. I think it was an accident. But we’re getting it back. Version 2.0 or whatever. It’s just that Gen X was the transitional generation in this massive shift. Our parents made the change and we were the first born into it.

    > thank God for dating coaches holding space (love that!) for those of us of both
    > genders, who wish to find a more satisfying way of relating …

    Yeah, that’s why I want to coach women. The men’s movement is progressing quickly and it’s self-correcting somewhat, but women need to become engaged in the process to achieve balance and keep the engine turning over and running into the future. It needs to be a unified movement, not that stupid meme from the 70’s and 80’s of the “battle of the sexes.” Plus, women and men should see themselves from the male perspective as well as the female perspective.



  370.  #370Lucy on August 23, 2010 at 3:35 pm

    Okay, what do you all think? (Jason too!) This match IM I just got — do you think this guy sends the same exact message to a bunch of women?

    “How are you doing? I saw your profile and it caught my attention…I really like your profile and u look great. I wonder what a beautiful woman like u is doing on here… ok I have to confess when I saw u I felt something so I stopped and looked at u so close, you look familiar. I don’t know u from anywhere but I really would love to get to know more about u ONLY if you don’t mind…I feel like u have something to do with me(hope I haven’t scared You).. I am a very sweet and honest person, trustworthy, loyal and just as opened as I want others to be with me. I will tell you like it is. And sometimes I do not candy coat it. Which some people don’t like, but that’s me……..I must confess that you have the prettiest face on this site and I could not help but stop and write you.”

    He lives on the opposite side of the country.



  371.  #371Lucy on August 23, 2010 at 3:38 pm

    Knocksoftly, I get frustrated with myself about not being able to let go, too. I WANT to let go! Why would I want to continue feeling bad, right??? What Jason wrote about the ego and the grieving process feels helpful to me — part of it maybe is loving ourselves even while we grieve and struggle.



  372.  #372lm on August 23, 2010 at 3:44 pm

    erika –

    “there’s no question anymore EVER in my mind about asking a guy out. I simply no longer ever would want to do that. It feels exhausting. It feels like doing all the work for him. It feels unfeminine.”

    i know! i absolutely would never do this now, except with male friends that i don’t care about romantically. my ex started to get really really girly and whiney about me not making plans toward the end (he’d call and say ‘why didn’t you call me today’ and claim i was inconsiderate because i didn’t contact him during the day, which is something i would NEVER have done at the beginning, even pre-rori, because i didn’t want to seem desperate).

    it was an absolute turn off, even sexually. now i wouldn’t even spend a minute thinking about a dude who wasn’t really bringing it.

    and…i am finally attracted to a new guy! (old guy, actually, from years back!). it feels goooood.



  373.  #373Jason Miller on August 23, 2010 at 3:53 pm

    > 376: knocksoftly says:
    >
    > Jason-Thanks for the comment. Actually I gave him the “until you
    > decide what you want then we cant be exclusive speech” and he
    > replied “it’s over”. He says he wants to be together but just does
    > not step up. I have HUGE abandonment issues and they are being
    > triggered big time. It is also ego and CONTROL. I have a history of
    > wanting to control EVERYTHING so letting go is very difficult for
    > me. And siren or not-I appreciate your response. It feels good to
    > have some male energy here.

    Hey, thanks. I like your energy too. I’m not sure why.

    Anyway, it always sucks to be in an ultimatum state. Nobody gets what they want. I don’t know what the actual conflict was between you and your ex, but it sounds like it was something like he wants to be exclusive but not married and you want to be married? I haven’t been able to follow the details in the thread but I’m assuming that’s the nature of it.

    My mom almost broke up with her boyfriend over the issue of continuing on in the relationship married or unmarried. She wanted to be married and was pressuring him. I told her that he’s wary because he’s divorced and what he’s experienced, not because he doesn’t want to be with you only. So she found some empathy for that and cooled her jets for a while and sure enough, they got married.

    > I get very frustrated with myself for not being able to easily let go of
    > someone who is toxic or not stepping up but I have struggled with “I WILL
    > MAKE YOU LOVE ME” Syndrome all my life. I am very new to this and I
    > have to remind myself that this is going to take time a LOTS of practice
    > and patience for me to change patterns that have served me (though not
    > well) for 40 years. What do you all think?

    I’m going to make an assertion here and you can accept it or reject it. No problem for me either way. People stay in these patterns (which can become addictive) because of an unconscious secondary benefit and/or an unresolved inner conflict. If you can nail down what these things are for you, you can clear them much more easily than if you’re trying to white-knuckle your way to behaving “better.” Changing patterns is hard if you use brute force methods. There are many “easier ways” out there it’s just a question of which one you are called to use.

    For me, it’s been a lot of therapy and a lot of coaching, both coaching others and receiving coaching. I’ve done extensive work with Erika (That’s how I got here.) and she’s an expert laser surgeon of unconscious issues. And I’ve been trained by her, but I’m still just getting started with her methodology. So that’s my shameless plug for Erika and what she does. She has helped me with a bunch of stuff in very short order. She’s just way beyond anyone in her specific areas of practice.

    But I’ve gone down other paths successfully too. Conventional therapy has worked for me in some ways. Support groups. Other kinds of coaching. But one common theme holds true for all of them. Until you clear the subconscious belief/issue/conflict underlying why you do what you do and why you feel what you feel, you’re going to be stuck running on your own personal hamster wheel reliving the same crappy scenario over and over. It’s just that simple.

    And you very often need someone else to dig around in the dark closet of your past to find and clear out these relics that are just taking up space and getting in your way because you can’t see them anymore. Lose your attachment to those useless relics and clear them out. Lay down your burdens. There is no cross to bear, only your attachment to carrying that cross around!



  374.  #374Jacqueline on August 23, 2010 at 3:58 pm

    Hiya Jason….okay so you want to coach women? So I can really challenge you and use my boy voice and you won’t fold? Cuz I’d LOVE to be able to that here….

    I’m going to copy in what my guy friend emailed me about that – if you wanna dance (and I’d for sure ask a guy out if I wanted to, not limiting myself by rules or beliefs! lol) what’s your take on it and this very feminine forum???

    “As for the forum , you do have an energy that makes many women uneasy … Actually that is likely what makes women uneasy ? They wish they had your energy .

    You know ? I don’t think that most women want to be strong . Really . Oh , they go on about it , but when it comes right down to it I believe that most want to play the part of ” a lady “, and see a strong woman as either being a ” bitch “. or a ” dike “. 🙂 You know what I am trying to say here ? They don’t think that a woman can be tender and womany while being strong at the same time …. ”

    And I’m calling foul on anyone who starts throwing tomatoes at this – because for one, it’s a quote, not me tooting my own horn and for two what rules for one rules for all. So, if we are not here to be friends or to receive advise and only as “experts” on something….I can definitely be an expert on being a strong woman!

    not sure how anyone’s gonna talk to me with all those “rules,” tho….. LOL….

    Anyway, Jason, let me know what you think.

    Grins and ducks,
    Jacqueline



  375.  #375Jacqueline on August 23, 2010 at 4:02 pm

    and – OMGosh, synchronicity….right when I decide to go for it….he sends this:

    “Yea , the easiest way to get most people’s attention is to piss them off eh ? 🙂 But it is good that you are taking the time to learn to ” play nice “. 🙂 A learning experience that may aid in your book . The wording of such things are sooo key … ”

    So, how do I authentically play nice when confronted with a bunch of words that I totally would call bulls*** on in real life?



  376.  #376janjune on August 23, 2010 at 4:05 pm

    ohmygoshohmgosh

    now i just got the BIRD analogy….

    OH MY GOSH
    oh my gosh
    ohmygosh—

    — this just happens so FAST!!!!!



  377.  #377janjune on August 23, 2010 at 4:09 pm

    oh and jason,

    i just realized that you said david DEIDA,

    not the dating coach whose name is david somethingwitha D….

    *smile*



  378.  #378Jason Miller on August 23, 2010 at 4:31 pm

    Re: 382: Jacqueline says:

    > Hiya Jason….okay so you want to coach women? So I can really
    > challenge you and use my boy voice and you won’t fold? Cuz I’d
    > LOVE to be able to that here….

    Don’t hold back. I’ve been challenged about coaching women before.

    Your male friend’s quote:

    “As for the forum , you do have an energy that makes many women uneasy … Actually that is likely what makes women uneasy ? They wish they had your energy .

    You know ? I don’t think that most women want to be strong . Really . Oh , they go on about it , but when it comes right down to it I believe that most want to play the part of ” a lady “, and see a strong woman as either being a ” bitch “. or a ” dike “. You know what I am trying to say here ? They don’t think that a woman can be tender and womany while being strong at the same time …. ”

    I’ve written earlier about the feminine courtship strategy of attracting men toward you and selecting the one (or ones) that measure up. This is not a position of weakness. The strength of the feminine strategy is in the raw allure of the feminine itself. Again, if you’re going to be the siren, you must maximize your feminine vibe. Trust me, it works. Your male friends will tell you they believe any woman can get laid any time she wants because she’s a woman. She doesn’t have to make the approach. She just has to hang out and be attractive. This is our rationalization of the feminine allure.

    Now, your male friend is still living in the that bygone era where society believed masculine energy = strength and feminine energy = weakness. The proper interpretation is that masculine = action and feminine = reaction. (I’ll ignore the finer points of this for brevity’s sake.) Being passive or reactive is not a position of weakness simply because it’s the position of CHOICE!

    A so-called “bitch” or a “dyke” is a woman operating using her MASCULINE VIBE and men resent it because she’s gotten quite good at maximizing her masculine energy. It’s threatening to a man’s masculinity because he’s scared she knows how to be more of a man than he does. And if a woman can be a better man than he is, what possible use to the world can he be? He’s suddenly obsolete! And that’s one of the many reasons for the men’s movement happening right now. We are redesigning masculinity and femininity for the 21st Century.

    Your friend continues:
    “Yea , the easiest way to get most people’s attention is to piss them off eh ? But it is good that you are taking the time to learn to ” play nice “. A learning experience that may aid in your book . The wording of such things are sooo key … ”

    > So, how do I authentically play nice when confronted with a bunch
    > of words that I totally would call bulls*** on in real life?

    Tough love, baby. Let him have it. There is no playing nice in this business. 🙂

    In all seriousness, I believe you’re more effective being bluntly honest to a small audience that appreciates it rather than being nice and trying to please everybody. That being said, very often finesse is called for. You can be direct and empathetic at the same time.



  379.  #379Jason Miller on August 23, 2010 at 4:33 pm

    Re: 384: knocksoftly says:

    Well, if you’re stuck, what other ways are you willing to seek help? Willpower doesn’t work.



  380.  #380Jason Miller on August 23, 2010 at 4:39 pm

    Re: 386: janjune says:

    > oh and jason,
    >
    > i just realized that you said david DEIDA,
    >
    > not the dating coach whose name is david
    > somethingwitha D….
    >
    > *smile*

    Yeah, David DeAngelo was the guy who thought being cocky and funny was a good strategy for guys to meet women in bars and clubs to get laid. I’m not an advocate of men going this route because it preys on pretty young women with low self-esteem. It’s not a growth path for anyone involved in my opinion. It’s better for all of us just to uncover our true nature and see each other for who we really are so real connection happens, even if it is only a fling. 😉



  381.  #381Jason Miller on August 23, 2010 at 4:46 pm

    Re: 390: knocksoftly says:

    > Jason-Good question. That’s why I am here.
    > Seeking….. =)

    Don’t keep seeking for too long. Be sure to try something out and take a risk. You’ll be stuck until you do. Pain and suffering doesn’t go away by itself if you’re stuck. I know someone well who just turned 65. Her parents are dead. She’s still angry as hell at them. Don’t be like her.



  382.  #382Jacqueline on August 23, 2010 at 4:46 pm

    Jason…yes! that’s what I think, too. No point in talking if you can’t be authentic. Darn, we’re not going to get to spar….too much.

    I am strong but I am oh so feminine. Like, loooong blonde hair, red toes, etc. I’ve made money off my looks – modeling and have worked in several unusual environments with men.

    That’s what throws guys off about me – even created the I’m gonna break your heart disclaimer I went around using for years….I’m all that soft, girly, excited, enthusiastic OMGOSH, you are fascinating…

    and then I’ve got a rapier wit, a brilliant brain, and sigh…my daddy alwasy said my problem in life was that I was never going to find a man smarter than me.

    I may have found ONE….har har…but I didn’t keep him after the 10 year mark….he had too much drama. rofl…

    So feminine is traditionally passive/receptive, but I look at it more as a form of total attention to a guy that makes him vibe masculine. It’s a you are all there is in the whole world while you have my attention thing, and it’s worked wonders for me.

    Thanks for being playful here, too….

    let me/us know what you think – but I myself do NOT think men are organically catching up and I read a lot about that in my magazines…particularly Elle. They feel displaced and threatened and yes, oh so lost without a dragon to fight? And it feels good to just let go for a guyto catch you – but oh, wait! my Significant Other built me a fine, fine sunroom….amazing…..and then left a 2″x4″ hole in the freaking wall across from the a/c in the 105 degree heat!!! So, ummmm…yeah, call me overfunctioning but HOW in the heck am I supposed to relax into his care when he’s less capable at things that require detail than I am?

    All the best,
    J



  383.  #383janjune on August 23, 2010 at 4:59 pm

    jason,
    oh, i didn’t know what david de’s claim to fame was, just know there was a dating coach by that name.

    but david DIEDA……. mmmmm…. now that’s different…. i do remember what he was all about…



  384.  #384Jason Miller on August 23, 2010 at 5:08 pm

    Re: 393: Jacqueline says:

    If you were fully grounded in your femininity and if you’re attraction strategy for men were truly feminine, you wouldn’t have the drama. You would simply select for a calm relationship, not a dramatic one. And you would have more information available to you from your intuition to choose a man who matches your boundaries and values.

    And I would ask one question in particular:
    How much of your energy is spent upholding the belief your dad gave you about not being able to find a man smarter than you? And for that matter, how important it is to know if a man’s smarter or not? Is it not acceptable that he’s just smart enough that you don’t even notice a difference between the two of you?



  385.  #385janjune on August 23, 2010 at 5:10 pm

    J

    “but oh, wait! my Significant Other built me a fine, fine sunroom….amazing…..and then left a 2″x4″ hole in the freaking wall across from the a/c in the 105 degree heat!!!”

    sorry you have a hole in our wall ….but this is hilarious….!!! like Whaaaaaa?



  386.  #386Jason Miller on August 23, 2010 at 5:11 pm

    OK, three questions. Sue me. 🙂



  387.  #387Laughing goddess on August 23, 2010 at 5:13 pm

    Oh my goodness! I feel so excited to have a man’s voice on here. It’s kind of tripping me out.

    Jason, you sound so adorable to me. I feel so thrilled to hear a man who’s into this way of living.

    So, I have one question…do men hate being called adorable? Or cute? Or pretty? I’d love to know how a masculine man feels about this.



  388.  #388Jason Miller on August 23, 2010 at 5:18 pm

    Re: 398: Laughing goddess says:

    > Jason, you sound so adorable to me. I feel so thrilled to
    > hear a man who’s into this way of living.

    Thanks.

    > So, I have one question…do men hate being called
    > adorable? Or cute? Or pretty? I’d love to know how a
    > masculine man feels about this.

    Pretty? Never call a man pretty unless it’s derogatory (pretty boy) or if he’s gay. Adorable and cute are great as long as they mean you find us sexually attractive. They can be used in a derogatory manner if you’re making those compliments as if you’re referring to a young boy.

    I recently told a woman she was adorable and cute. Then we made out. 😉



  389.  #389Erika Awakening on August 23, 2010 at 5:30 pm

    Jacqueline,

    are you open to hearing honest response of how your speech to Jason feels to me?



  390.  #390Erika Awakening on August 23, 2010 at 5:32 pm

    I feel bemused by the silence about Jason’s ‘expert laser surgeon’ comment. I feel a disconnect. I’ll explore more when I get to a more comfortable feeling location.



  391.  #391Erika Awakening on August 23, 2010 at 5:33 pm

    Thank you, Jason, btw, that felt wonderful to hear 🙂



  392.  #392janjune on August 23, 2010 at 5:38 pm

    hi erika,

    i, for one didn’t feel it was necessary to make any further comments about Jason’s ‘expert laser surgeon’ comment….. i thought everyone could tell you had it by now… *smile*



  393.  #393janjune on August 23, 2010 at 5:42 pm

    this is going to be strange, a 22 year old is IMing me…



  394.  #394janjune on August 23, 2010 at 5:44 pm

    i am going to talk to him anyway instead of blocking him…

    i feel creeped out.
    i feel tingly creepy like when you think someone is trfying to get in your house….

    i feel he is here for a reason tho



  395.  #395Erika Awakening on August 23, 2010 at 5:46 pm

    Thanks, janjune, that feels wonderful to hear also …

    I still hear a disconnect though …

    I hear Siren after Siren after Siren saying … essentially …

    “I know that Rori’s advice is the way to go with men, and I want to follow her advice, but I don’t feel congruent doing so because I have this underlying NEEDINESS that I can’t seem to get rid of no matter what I do.”

    And I am standing in front you with the answer.



  396.  #396janjune on August 23, 2010 at 5:50 pm

    i feel like my last few remarks to you erika are coming off as cheesey…the advice, etc…but i really feel them

    …. here i go again!……i just see you modeling rori’s program so well … just think you should hear that part too…. not just all the criticisms….



  397.  #397janjune on August 23, 2010 at 5:51 pm

    oh, im glad it felt good to hear.

    i just really am learning so much from your posts to us sirens.



  398.  #398janjune on August 23, 2010 at 6:15 pm

    okay, it turns out, the 22 year old said he hadn’t looked at the age difference—
    i feel better about it now…



  399.  #399Nikita on August 23, 2010 at 6:27 pm

    I’m hearing crickets waiting for some of these responses……
    to a few questions that were posed earlier…….crickets…..oh the suspense……I feel so curious!



  400.  #400Nikita on August 23, 2010 at 6:31 pm

    Erika,

    Regarding “laser surgeons”….. I felt ; aaaw Jason is so sweet and he has such a way with words, Erika must be really pleased to read that. I thought; mmm, perceptive of him.



  401.  #401Jacqueline on August 23, 2010 at 6:40 pm

    @ Erika, thanks no I am not open to your comments as you are not my friend, an expert (IMO) nor wanting my advice. It was actually you who my male friend and I were addressing on the email exchange. And, you know that is my WHOLE problem here….YOU are standing in front of us saying YOU have the answer, but I’m not here wanting YOUR answer; I am here wanting what Rori has, and asking Jason questions.

    I also think your “I’m amused” statement has come up when a siren was in jail and when one was literally hitting her head against the wall, something I do not find amusing in any way.

    I know Jason said, let him/her have it, but I do not want to operate on that level here with you so I’m just answering the question you asked, addressing one of your comments and dropping it.



  402.  #402janjune on August 23, 2010 at 6:45 pm

    lol—

    here’s what one guy said: (okcupid)

    I’m really good at Intimacy, understanding women, listening, and (obviously) promising more than I can deliver.

    lol—i think i like this guy!!



  403.  #403Jacqueline on August 23, 2010 at 6:48 pm

    @ Jason…great insightful questions…and btw, I have moved on from drama guy and onto Mr. Good Enough, and it feels like moving up – Rori has this kind of hierachy thing where if you move from toxic to just kind of not hurting you but maybe a bit boring, you’re healing and moving up. LOL…so that’s how I look at it. About the comment, I don’t know….I will wonder about that, and how it influences me. I basically think I decided it didn’t matter since I’ve dated all types of guys and intelligence is somewhat subjective – I mean I couldn’t/wouldn’t build a sunroom!!!

    I never made a distinction like this between male/female, there was for me only you can achieve your goals and what results you produce in whatever arena you’re operating in. So, this is interesting…..

    Thanks so MUCH for being here, it’s been a fab day cuz it feels like breakthrough and movement and I feel like I can speak more authentically with you around….course I’m gonna get rotten tomatoes at me, yep, I do have that belief. grin….

    @ janjune….but OMGOSH IF I did…it wouldn’t have a freaking hole in it letting the a/c out!!! He just like doesn’t see details even if he’s eye to eye with ’em. But he’s great at postive thinking, making me laugh, etc. Totally opposite from what I had before – which again is pretty much what I always do.



  404.  #404janjune on August 23, 2010 at 6:52 pm

    @acqueline—

    i know!!!!!…. too funny!!!

    they seem to not notice those holes in the wall….
    it makes me feel so curious



  405.  #405janjune on August 23, 2010 at 6:53 pm

    can i be funny here?

    without getting clobbered?

    yes?>



  406.  #406janjune on August 23, 2010 at 6:55 pm

    okay, here goes……:)
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    JOUSTING STICKS ANYONE?



  407.  #407joan on August 23, 2010 at 6:57 pm

    Erika,

    I’ve been tapping to let this go, but now that you’ve brought it up in a roundabout way, what the heck.

    Regarding Jason’s “expert laser surgeon” comment, I don’t feel it. To me, there’s a great big “elephant in the room”, or maybe it’s more like “the empress has no clothes”. My most recent basis for this feeling is your post #307 above:

    I have a fun game we could play on one of these threads, if anyone else wants to join me. I’m going to call it “Reframing Silence”

    I’ve been practicing this game lately around silences with a man, because it seems so often a negative interpretation is put on “not hearing from a man,” but what if there’s a better way …

    So I’m doing the “what if” game …

    What if silence means he loves me and he doesn’t need to say it?

    What if silence means he’s planning a romantic surprise for us and building suspense?

    What if silence means he’s busy working hard on something that is for both of us?

    What if silence means that God wants me to get more present instead of worrying about a man?

    What if silence means there’s going to be some delicious plot twist that makes an already amazing situation even MORE amazing?

    When I read this post, especially the bold portion, I get a sense that you’ve been spending so much time here in order to distract yourself from your NV’s regarding VG’s silence – not that there’s anything wrong with that since that’s part of the purpose of this blog as I understand it. Yet, I feel perplexed by your need to appear “better than” other Sirens who may be doing the same thing.

    What if the distress over the silence had been expressed directly instead of veiled in a “game”?



  408.  #408Laughing goddess on August 23, 2010 at 6:58 pm

    Hi Erika: I feel confused about why you are wondering about that particular “laser surgeon” comment. His post was quite lengthy. Did I miss something about that particular phrase? I feel confused.



  409.  #409janjune on August 23, 2010 at 6:58 pm

    where is brenda?
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    i’m afraid we scared her off….

    (((( BRENDA ))))

    …and no i haven[‘t been drinking….LOL
    i just feel good getting all that crap taken care of the last few days.

    now i think I *will* go pour a glass og wine, that sounds rather delightful…



  410.  #410janjune on August 23, 2010 at 7:00 pm

    oops!

    another IM…

    this could be fun……



  411.  #411Nikita on August 23, 2010 at 7:02 pm

    I’d love a glass! Thx 😉



  412.  #412janjune on August 23, 2010 at 7:05 pm

    cool glass of cabernet for goddess nikita…

    cheers! *click*



  413.  #413Renee on August 23, 2010 at 7:13 pm

    Ok — so what to do here?

    The cougar man I’ve been dating just txted me “You know I’m not going to leave you on the market much longer.” And I have no clue what to say back.

    I’ve already given him the speech about not wanting to jump into something exclusive too soon because that’s what I’ve done in my past, but I honestly don’t see us moving through life as a couple…I just thought he was fun and would be great to date for a while…what do you think I should say?



  414.  #414janjune on August 23, 2010 at 7:15 pm

    renee.
    how about:
    “I honestly don’t see us moving through life as a couple…I just thought it was fun and would be great to date each other for a while…what do you think?”

    that sounds really good imho



  415.  #415janjune on August 23, 2010 at 7:30 pm

    lg,

    hi.

    how ya doin?

    when jacqueline brought up that comment about a goddess being amused… and it ticked her (J) off…. it reminded me

    i just wanted to tell you that i had not read your comment about what happened to you when you were little *before* i posted that comment on the Trigger Thread about feeling amused…inner child… different voices….etc.
    i don’t know whether you’ve even read that or not, of course, but if you have i just wanted to tell you i don’t find it amusing in the least now.

    love,
    janjune



  416.  #416Jason Miller on August 23, 2010 at 7:34 pm

    > 424: Renee says:
    >
    > Ok — so what to do here?
    >
    > The cougar man I’ve been dating just txted me “You
    > know I’m not going to leave you on the market much
    > longer.” And I have no clue what to say back.
    >
    > I’ve already given him the speech about not wanting
    > to jump into something exclusive too soon because
    > that’s what I’ve done in my past, but I honestly don’t
    > see us moving through life as a couple…I just
    > thought he was fun and would be great to date for a
    > while…what do you think I should say?

    First off, how old do you have to be to be a cougar man? 🙂 How old is this guy and how old are you? Sounds like something an older guy would say. Pre-GenX even.

    This is tough because if you stay with him and he wants to go the distance, you’re just leading him on. If you’re certain he wants a long term committed thing and you don’t, the honest thing to do is say that you don’t want that with him. You can stay with him for fun for now, but you basically know a breakup is inevitable. Then he can decide how he wants to handle it. If I was serious about a woman that was not serious about me, I’d want to know that. I’d want to be free to move on with my life.



  417.  #417Nikita on August 23, 2010 at 7:36 pm

    Renee,
    Attn. cougar man:
    “promises,promises :p”

    😉



  418.  #418Nikita on August 23, 2010 at 7:42 pm

    “I feel bemused by the silence about Jason’s ‘expert laser surgeon’ comment. I feel a disconnect. I’ll explore more when I get to a more comfortable feeling location.”

    I feel confused……it reads;

    Bemused, not amused.

    I haven’t seen amused twice.



  419.  #419Jason Miller on August 23, 2010 at 7:52 pm

    > 412: Jacqueline says:
    >
    > @ Erika, thanks no I am not open to your comments
    > as you are not my friend, an expert (IMO) nor
    > wanting my advice. It was actually you who my
    > male friend and I were addressing on the email
    > exchange. And, you know that is my WHOLE
    > problem here….YOU are standing in front of us
    > saying YOU have the answer, but I’m not here
    > wanting YOUR answer; I am here wanting what Rori
    > has, and asking Jason questions.
    >
    > …
    >
    > I know Jason said, let him/her have it, but I do not
    > want to operate on that level here with you so I’m
    > just answering the question you asked, addressing
    > one of your comments and dropping it.

    Jacqueline, I may not have followed this 400+ entry comment thread to the letter, so I don’t have a complete history by any means. First, I gave you that suggestion to let your male friend have it jokingly. Maybe I should have made that more clear. I felt you had a valid situation in order to speak your truth. Also note I followed up with the “let him have it” suggestion that your response could be handled in an empathetic way.

    More importantly, I was left under the impression your disagreement was with HIM and not ERIKA. I would not have suggested you let Erika have it. In fact, I would not have commented at all had I known Erika was the subject of that particular quoted conversation since she is my friend. And if you were to state your disagreement with Erika, she’d listen with an empathetic ear regardless of your delivery. Do not misrepresent material you are posting here for my, or anyone else’s comment. I don’t appreciate it and I assume no one else does either.

    I’m not here to coerce or convince anyone to do anything. I’m only giving my opinions and experiences here as long as they are welcome. I’m offering a bridge from the male experience to your experience.

    > 414: Jacqueline says:
    >
    > …
    >
    > Thanks so MUCH for being here, it’s been a fab day
    > cuz it feels like breakthrough and movement and I
    > feel like I can speak more authentically with you
    > around….course I’m gonna get rotten tomatoes at
    > me, yep, I do have that belief. grin….

    You’re welcome.



  420.  #420janjune on August 23, 2010 at 8:02 pm

    love ya jaqueline,
    but that was extremely well stated Jason Miller…

    i feel deep respect for men and women who have the courage to stand up for their friends…. and themselves…

    … that being no doubt beause i have been such a chicken at times in my life….



  421.  #421Simply Shannon on August 23, 2010 at 8:08 pm

    Oh wow. I feel surprised and a lil’ sad.

    Jason, re: 427 – that last paragraph was for me. You didn’t write it for me but it was definitely for me.

    This is tough because if you stay with him and he wants to go the distance, you’re just leading him on. If you’re certain he wants a long term committed thing and you don’t, the honest thing to do is say that you don’t want that with him. You can stay with him for fun for now, but you basically know a breakup is inevitable. Then he can decide how he wants to handle it. If I was serious about a woman that was not serious about me, I’d want to know that. I’d want to be free to move on with my life.

    What if I’m not really sure what I want? I don’t feel certain either way. Right now I can’t see “forever” with him. What do I do? What would you do?

    I do believe I just wrote my speech. 🙂



  422.  #422janjune on August 23, 2010 at 8:10 pm

    yipes,

    im so off the vibe here

    my party animal goddess feels unleashed…

    and this feels tight, locked down…

    sorry, hope i haven’t offended anyone with my levity.

    g’night.



  423.  #423Jason Miller on August 23, 2010 at 8:12 pm

    Re: 418: joan says:

    “What if the distress over the silence had been expressed directly instead of veiled in a “game”?”

    Erika’s reframing is valid. If you’re in a relationship with a man who has a solid mission in life that requires a lot of his time and attention, he may not respond to you as often or as quickly as you want. He might get absorbed in what he’s doing and not call you for a day or two. The quintessential expression of masculinity is “being on a mission.” In fact, it’s what I coach men to do! I would suspect VG is a guy with a mission.

    Now, as a woman does that stress you out or does that comfort you? If you believe that he’s gonna leave you any minute, then it will make you feel anxiety. If you believe you’re part of that bigger mission, then your position is secure.

    But I don’t know your whole situation so I can’t speculate.



  424.  #424Nikita on August 23, 2010 at 8:16 pm

    I felt apprehensive about Erika bringing people of the male persuasion over here.

    Erika,

    I felt uncomfortable with men posting here. After sniffing around Jason’s comments I feel differently. I wasn’t a fan of the others but he is refreshing. I’d liken Jason to an Arnold Palmer; half tea, half lemonade 🙂 I like it……I was feeling skeptical but after checking out the genesis of his blog I feel ……..peaceful about HIM.

    Jason,

    Welcome.



  425.  #425Jacqueline on August 23, 2010 at 8:18 pm

    Jason, I’m clear Erika is your friend and I had no intention of bringing up that the conversation was about her. However, I felt defensive when she said to paraphrase I AM the answer and do you wanna know how it REALLY is for you? And, sorry, no I don’t…sigh….and no, I’ve never felt empathy from her, so I don’t see what you are seeing. But I seperated the posts specifically to not turn this into a Erika conversation.

    I just wanted to know your opinon on my speaking authentically, if that was a “male” energy thing, etc.

    I did not bring Erika into the conversation, she brought herself into it, and I do not want to bring anything into yours and shes friendship, either. So, if you don’t want to post back, I understand. However, I did NOT use you or your comments/opinions to make a point, I simply replied to the question that was asked of me, I think if you look at posts you will notice this.

    However! I absolutely do agree that your comments are kind of laser like, and I agree to anyone and everyone being able to say what they want to say here.

    Best,
    J



  426.  #426Simply Shannon on August 23, 2010 at 8:19 pm

    Jason: I just clicked on your name. Get The Dude. Inner Dude. Haha! I feel smiley and giggly.

    My bubbas call me Dude-ette (and Princess). Boys are awesome! 😉

    Thank you [she says as she walks down the hall].

    Sweet dreams my lovelies.



  427.  #427Jacqueline on August 23, 2010 at 8:20 pm

    @ janjune….doesn’t levity sound like it ought to mean seriousness??? instead of funniness? Don’t let a full on conversation bring you down….okay. I’m fine and I’m sure everyone else is fine…or they will be.

    And I too wonder where Brenda is – probably in a mass of confusion about the FB thing.

    Nite all,
    J



  428.  #428Jason Miller on August 23, 2010 at 8:22 pm

    432: Simply Shannon says:

    [Me]
    This is tough because if you stay with him and he wants to go the distance, you’re just leading him on. If you’re certain he wants a long term committed thing and you don’t, the honest thing to do is say that you don’t want that with him. You can stay with him for fun for now, but you basically know a breakup is inevitable. Then he can decide how he wants to handle it. If I was serious about a woman that was not serious about me, I’d want to know that. I’d want to be free to move on with my life.

    [Shannon]
    What if I’m not really sure what I want? I don’t feel certain either way. Right now I can’t see “forever” with him. What do I do? What would you do?

    [Me]
    That’s valid. If you see any long term potential at all with this man, then it’s fair to stay with him till you know. Your only responsibility is to keep him up to date as to where you stand. Don’t lead him on. If you honestly KNOW there is NO potential and you’re trying to convince yourself there is, then you’re obligation is to let him know that since he wants more.



  429.  #429Jason Miller on August 23, 2010 at 8:35 pm

    Re: 435: Nikita
    Thank you very much!

    Re: 436: Jacqueline
    No hard feelings, Jacqueline. I called it as a saw it.

    I’m still trying to figure out how to trace threads on this damn Wordpress comment extravaganza…



  430.  #430Lucy on August 23, 2010 at 8:37 pm

    Jason, I feel so grateful reading your perspective about “leading him on”! That is something I have struggled with re: CDing — the idea being to date men for free therapy/practice. It seems there is a fine line there somewhere, and I feel good about the way you just clarified where that line is. Thanks! I don’t want to lead men on — I wouldn’t want them to do it to me!



  431.  #431Jason Miller on August 23, 2010 at 8:43 pm

    Re: 441: Lucy

    Glad I could help clarify that. There is absolutely NOTHING WRONG with dating multiple men as long as expectations are WELL managed. And just going out on dates with many different men at the same time can be a very good learning experience for women. You learn as much about yourself as you learn about men in general. I would advise men to date a bunch of women for the same reason. It’s just good practice.



  432.  #432Lucy on August 23, 2010 at 8:45 pm

    Jason, I also love love love what you wrote about “a man with a mission.” That knowledge feels very important to me. I really DON’T want a man whose only goal in life is to call me, text me, be with me. I love that you wrote this!

    And then to add: “If you believe that he’s gonna leave you any minute, then it will make you feel anxiety. If you believe you’re part of that bigger mission, then your position is secure.”

    Mmmm. Yes! And, it seems, THAT part is not about HIM — what he is or isn’t doing/saying — but about ME (us women) — what we believe, how trusting and confident we are, how much we love ourselves, etc. What do you think?



  433.  #433Jacqueline on August 23, 2010 at 8:47 pm

    Jason….yeah, I just signed up with WordPress…fun! But you can’t really trace comments here, there IS a 1000+ entry recent blog on Circular Dating that will entrance you or put you to sleep….or, you can just catch up on archived posts.

    No hard feelings, here, too, (wow, is that guy speak and I LOVE it!!) and I hope you see my point of view was NOT to word play you – it happened when another poster jumped in, ‘kay?..

    So, I noticed that in the spirit of welcoming you, I now have to ask, and Sirens, et. al. what do you think? ha ha ha…..okay, I am gonna word play and wonder what a male siren would be???? by definition I don’t think it’s possible but…..Poiseidon???

    Night to all,
    Jacqueline



  434.  #434Lucy on August 23, 2010 at 8:51 pm

    Yes, Jason, I have dated multiple men for about a year now, and I have learned SO much. My difficulty has come when several of them “fall in love” with me and ASSUME that I am only dating them and they project that I am falling in love with them just because I’m being so free and fun and “in the moment” with them. It sneaks up on me (some of them fall in love FAST!) — and then I feel really uncomfortable letting them know their assumptions were inaccurate. Sometimes they don’t even BELIEVE me when I tell them the truth! I am getting better at maneuvering this, though, and your words here tonight help a lot!



  435.  #435Lucy on August 23, 2010 at 8:57 pm

    Lol. I’m noticing that I LIKE when a man writes on here in “boy voice.”



  436.  #436Nikita on August 23, 2010 at 9:00 pm

    Lucy,

    #446-it feels congruent….and sounds authentic



  437.  #437Simply Shannon on August 23, 2010 at 9:02 pm

    Lucy, oh wow. I feel… heart pounding, frozen in the head lights, jump up and down, point, point, point… don’t know the name for that emotion but…

    Post 445. Is that you and WH but in reverse?

    Oh gosh. Is that me reflecting because my typical role is being reversed with Mr. Fab Kisser?

    Ahhhhh!!! I feel nervous pointing this out. I don’t know how you’ll feel about this. But I can’t not point this out. That came flying out at me.

    Do you think it’s possible that God is doing this role reversal thing on both of us? Or am I only reflecting? And what is the message if that’s the case? If any of this resonates, I’d love to hear your take on the message. You’re much better at message-decoding than me.

    Wow I feel super uncomfortable.

    And why do I suddenly feel self conscious because there are boys on the board?



  438.  #438Lucy on August 23, 2010 at 9:03 pm

    Renee, I’ve noticed that the twenty-somethings say stuff like that pretty regularly — “You know I’m not going to leave you on the market much longer” — and I’m not sure they even realize what they’re saying (or rather, how a woman will perceive it).

    To him, that may just mean an exclusive, short-lived fling.

    Regardless, I have an easier time shooting straight with the cougar guys because I honestly tell them I’m not interested in a serious relationship with a guy that’s almost as young as my kids — and there’s not really any way he can take that personally because he has absolutely no control over his age. 🙂

    That said, 26 is still after me — no matter what I say he doesn’t give up! Lol.



  439.  #439Lucy on August 23, 2010 at 9:04 pm

    “#446-it feels congruent….and sounds authentic”

    Yes, Nikita! Very natural and “right.”



  440.  #440Erika Awakening on August 23, 2010 at 9:10 pm

    Damn, I just got off three hours straight of HBR … we cleared out a MOUNTAIN of trauma … it was really fun … but now I am waaaaaaaay behind on posts here …



  441.  #441Lucy on August 23, 2010 at 9:11 pm

    Shannon, you are cracking me up! I love your voice. 🙂

    Okay, I feel interested in exploring this with you. I see a reversal in the fact that I “fell in love” with WH so fast. But I’m not sure about the rest of it….. I didn’t project on him that he was falling in love with me — just the opposite, actually, which is why I feel so sad. I would love to hear what else you are seeing…. as you jump up and down and point.. 🙂



  442.  #442Lucy on August 23, 2010 at 9:14 pm

    “And why do I suddenly feel self conscious because there are boys on the board?”

    Lol. That made me think of this: we were school shopping at Sears over the weekend, and my teenage son tried on clothes in the womens fitting room because he didn’t see the men’s fitting room and thought that one was for everybody. Lol. Poor kid!



  443.  #443Erika Awakening on August 23, 2010 at 9:14 pm

    Jacqueline,

    Yes, your posts feel very defensive to me …

    I don’t see anyone else offering an answer to the problem I see voiced here over and over again … dissolving the neediness feelings … anyone else seeing a consistent method for dissolving the neediness? (I’m asking this sincerely.)



  444.  #444Simply Shannon on August 23, 2010 at 9:19 pm

    Well, I felt surprised when you described your difficulty. That was the first thing that got my attention. That’s not at all what I expected to read. I expected you to say that you have difficulty getting hung up on a particular guy and not being able to let go. My brain literally substituted your words like this…

    My difficulty has come when I “fall in love” with them … because I’m being so free and fun and “in the moment” with them. It sneaks up on me and maybe they feel really uncomfortable letting me know my assumptions were inaccurate. Sometimes I don’t even BELIEVE them when they tell me the truth!

    I still feel uncomfortable. My heart is burning.



  445.  #445Erika Awakening on August 23, 2010 at 9:19 pm

    Joan,

    Yeah, I noticed mild anxiety in myself during the silence. I sought reassurance once, and he gave it to me, very squarely.

    I now have two choices …

    I can choose trusting thoughts, which will lead me to feel peaceful inside and not build up resentment if he’s not communicating a lot …

    or I can choose fearful thoughts, which will begin a downward spiral from which the relationship is unlikely to recover …

    which choice feels better?



  446.  #446joan on August 23, 2010 at 9:21 pm

    Jason,

    I was responding to Erika directly. I was referring to what I perceive as Erika’s distress over VG’s lack of contact, and her apparent need to disguise it as a game so that she can continue to claim some kind of Siren superiority.

    I wasn’t in any way referring to my situation, so no need for you to speculate. I didn’t realize she brought you over here to be her hired gun.



  447.  #447Erika Awakening on August 23, 2010 at 9:23 pm

    Joan,

    Speaking of disguises,

    “I was responding to Erika directly. I was referring to what I perceive as Erika’s distress over VG’s lack of contact, and her apparent need to disguise it as a game so that she can continue to claim some kind of Siren superiority.

    I wasn’t in any way referring to my situation, so no need for you to speculate. I didn’t realize she brought you over here to be her hired gun.”

    This feels like veiled anger and JEALOUSY.

    What say you?



  448.  #448Lucy on August 23, 2010 at 9:24 pm

    Shannon, I have thought about this a bit already…

    For a long time, every man I dated fell in love with me and I wasn’t into him.

    Then came three men where the feeling was mutual — we were both NOT into each other. (LOVE that!! THAT’S HOW I THINK IT SHOULD ALWAYS BE!!!!!! That way, nobody is hurt or pining. Hear that, God??? Just a suggestion….)

    And then along comes WH and I fall for him, fully expecting that he’s gonna be like the other guys who fell for ME. And SHOCKED that he isn’t! Whaaaat? How can this be??? I thought I had finally gotten it right! But, as you said, Shannon, it was the old switcheroo.

    But, I see a pattern here, and that means that the only thing left is meeting a guy and we BOTH FALL FOR EACH OTHER. I would like that next step to happen really soon.

    What do you think?



  449.  #449Simply Shannon on August 23, 2010 at 9:30 pm

    Lucy, SWOON! Yes, we BOTH FALL FOR EACH OTHER. Not “we” as in you and me cuz that would just be weird (LOL!), but I say YES to that. God had better be taking notes. 😉

    YES, my heart just jumped for joy!



  450.  #450Erika Awakening on August 23, 2010 at 9:32 pm

    Wow, I feel intense fear on the board right now …

    I feel intrigued what that’s all about …



  451.  #451Jacqueline on August 23, 2010 at 9:32 pm

    Hey, Erika….well, I do feel defensive if you’re way is the only way….and you yourself said you had heard me through a “filter” as asking you for FREE help. I’d already said money wasn’t my issue….but this feels exhausting. I just want this to be about Rori Raye’s tools, word and works. And Jason’s words should be Jason’s words regardless of who I was asking advice about – that sharp reply was expected, but it felt like a set up to me. I am not on her posting as neediness, or about neediness or seeing that Everyone has neediness and needs deep down to be fixed.

    Once again, tho….I don’t want to continue to discuss and/are argue…you post, I post we coexist and agree to disagree, okay?

    If it’s not I ask that YOU hold the space for me to have my feelings be valid and not “advise” as you requested for yourself,

    thanks!
    J



  452.  #452Lucy on August 23, 2010 at 9:33 pm

    “I expected you to say that you have difficulty getting hung up on a particular guy and not being able to let go.”

    Oh, for sure, that is definitely my current problem . . . and was a problem with TN man as well. I was describing the OTHER problem I have had merely because of the discussion about leading guys on.



  453.  #453dorothea on August 23, 2010 at 9:35 pm

    Erika, are you doing that thing again where someone says something directly to you or about you, and you respond with how someone else besides you and you alone is feeling?



  454.  #454dorothea on August 23, 2010 at 9:37 pm

    I dissolve neediness around men by having a firm POP.

    i don’t think there’s any easy way out of neediness. You have to actually create something fulfilling for yourself, and that takes commitment and consistency.



  455.  #455Nikita on August 23, 2010 at 9:38 pm

    I’m hearing Janet Jackson…The Control Album
    ….”I wanna be the one, in control…..Controlllllll…..”.



  456.  #456Jacqueline on August 23, 2010 at 9:38 pm

    Dorothea….hey, are you feeling better? Loved the step up with your live in…and I’ve so gotta get off of here, but wanted to see if your strength came back to you?



  457.  #457Erika Awakening on August 23, 2010 at 9:38 pm

    Dorothea,

    I’ve said it before, but you’d need to ask my clients to know it’s true. I can feel other people’s feelings.



  458.  #458Erika Awakening on August 23, 2010 at 9:39 pm

    Jacqueline,

    I am hearing your request to hold space, and I choose to honor your request to hold space.