Why Is He Ignoring Me?

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why is he ignoring meWhy is he ignoring me? What’s he thinking? Why isn’t he talking to me? Why isn’t he looking at me? Why isn’t he calling me?

He doesn’t like me anymore. He’s mad at me. He doesn’t miss me. He’s met another woman. He’s thinking about his ex-girlfriend.

If these kind of thoughts circle around in your head often — I know how you feel.  Actually, we all know how you feel!

It’s the age old question of “Why is he ignoring me?”

And the thing is, the answer is usually none of the things you’re thinking!

The truth is — he’s more likely thinking about a pimple on his chin, about paying a bill, about getting older, about the results of a sports event, and a lot of the time he just needs to pee.

So what are you to do?  The easy answer is to say do nothing. And yet I know that’s pretty much impossible because your brain is still going round and round.

So let’s see if we can find some way to help your brain feel better and your body feel less tense – and stop the questions from rolling around in your head.

First: catch yourself but the first thought that comes to mind about what you think might be going on with your man.

If you can, get out of the space where he is. Outside is best. If you’re with them in a public place, try going to the bathroom.

Second: If you can write down this first thought you have in the little journal you might be carrying (It would be great if you would carry around a journal and pencil with you everywhere so that you can get more natural with Feeling Messages) — that would be terrific. Now we have something to work with!

The first thoughts that might come to you are: He’s ignoring me. Why is he ignoring me?

So let’s turn those around.

See if you can switch your focus from what’s going on with him to what’s going on with you. This could be:

My shoulders feel tense.

My belly feels like there’s a brick lodged in it.

I can barely breathe.

My legs feel like they’re not going to hold me up anymore.

If more thoughts about him come into your mind – let’s go with a standard procedure:

1. When the thought “Why is he ignoring me?” comes up for you — flip it to “I have no idea what he’s thinking about. I’m making this up. So I’m going to make it up good. I’m going to make it up that he’s thinking about something that has nothing whatsoever to do with me!”

2. Now — check into your body again. How are your shoulders doing? How is your belly doing? How is your tummy doing? How are your hips doing? Are you clenching anywhere?

3. Focus on breathing into parts that feel tense.

4. Now as each new thought comes up about him, track through your body, and say out loud – if you can – how that body part feels.

Yes, I know what you want my advice here to change something about his behavior. You want me to come up with something clever to say to him that would open up communication.

And the truth is, until you can get in touch with yourself, and out of the rut of the why is he ignoring me thought and into the possibility that there are way more other possibilities here — if you approach him now it’s going to be filled with tension, need and desperation.

It’s going to be very unattractive, and it’s going to push him away.

And do you really want to do that if his only issue is that he has a hangnail?

In other words you can make a problem where there is none!

Now — when you’ve got a real feel for yourself, and you’re able to relax and you’re able to shift all your thoughts about him into feelings that you feel and experience inside you — one of two things will happen:

1. He will all of a sudden approach you and talk to you with a smile on his face as if nothing is wrong. How great is that!

2. He’ll go back to the space where he is.  Then you’ll smile at him. And  if things aren’t automatically better — you’ll say something like “I can feel a kind of quiet between us now. Is there anything I should know?”

And he’s either going to say “No — what are you talking about?”  Or he’s going to tell you what’s bothering him.

If he shuts the conversation down – then you’ve got some information about him. Either there really is nothing wrong, and your thoughts are still getting the best of you, or he’s not a very good communicator.

And — in the best case scenario here — he may open up to you! And there you are now, both of you on a whole new level of connection.

Let me know how this works for you…

Love, Rori


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  1.  #1Femininewoman on May 12, 2011 at 7:46 am

    What an insightful post.

  2.  #2Femininewoman on May 12, 2011 at 7:51 am

    I guess “if you approach him now it’s going to be filled with tension, need and desperation” is the reason leaning back is the best option.

  3.  #3Elizabeth on May 12, 2011 at 7:55 am

    “…..a lot of the time he just needs to pee”



  4.  #4Mel on May 12, 2011 at 8:16 am

    I have read elsewhere that often times, when he’s being silent and we’re busy fretting and worrying about what he could possibly be thinking about, he is quite possible thinking about absolutely NOTHING. Apparently many men have the ability to just turn off their thoughts and completely zone out. I can’t even fathom what that would be like! I am always thinking about something!

  5.  #5Lilybelle on May 12, 2011 at 8:17 am


    That is exactly what I did, and then I said, hmmmm…”that’s probably true”.

    LOL!!! 🙂


  6.  #6Lilybelle on May 12, 2011 at 8:20 am


    This is true. He who shall remain nameless asked me that question one day after a particulary rough day at work. I was fretting, worrying about something that I had no control over and he said… “Can’t you just turn it all OFF?” Just don’t think about anything for a while; if you can do that, the stress and worry will subside and you will feel better”. I couldn’t.

    He could.

  7.  #7Mel on May 12, 2011 at 8:30 am

    Femininewoman & SummerBaby

    … continued from the last thread…

    I like the feeling of peace. It feels better (even physically) to the tension and anger and stress. So this is good. But FW, you are right about it feeling a bit empty. I just have to work on filling up that space with love for myself.

    Tinque wrote a blog post recently, on “drama” and she addressed this a little. She talked about how sometimes when we feel that peace we try to fill it up with more drama because it feels so weird to not have the anxiety and strong emotions. I think I’m going to re-read that post today! 🙂

  8.  #8SummerBaby on May 12, 2011 at 8:32 am

    we may not be able to turn it all off, but we can go to a different place in our minds… meadows, beaches, anyplace that is happy and carefree for us. I try to take frequent mental vacations. I take a hike in my mind. Feels so much better.

  9.  #9tinque on May 12, 2011 at 9:55 am

    Most of the time if he seems weird/off to us, it has NOTHING to do with us; He had a bad day at work,, the world is troubling him, he has a headache, or something else.

    Yet it has everything to do with us because of the stories we make up around it.

    I like to operate under the assumption at all times that it’s usually me, an old memory that came up without me being aware of it, an old trigger, a pain in my belly that put me into cranky mode, etc.

    Usually he’s just happily going along, peaceful in his quiet, firmly ensconced in his “nothing box”.


  10.  #10SummerBaby on May 12, 2011 at 9:56 am

    I cannot remember which siren is trying to paint a picture of her “the one” so forgive me, but I had a thought today. I am going to take a photo of my guy and me holding hands. I just want the hands. I will take a headshot of us too, but for now, holding hands just makes me feel comfortable about so many things.

    So I wondered if you could paint a picture of holding hands and put all your visions and emotions into it about your “the one”. That way the universe can still surprise you with the rest of the wrapping.

    Just some musings… I even googled holding hands just so I could look at some images and feel good. there’s one set with the beach in the background. I think I’m going to take pics for everything we do if we should travel, with holding hands being the theme. so the scene is a backdrop of the holding hands… just made me feel good.


  11.  #11Virginia Feingold Clark on May 12, 2011 at 10:03 am

    Great post. So true how we can get in our own way by being too pre-occupied with how the man is feeling and not pay enough attention to our own.

  12.  #12Daria on May 12, 2011 at 10:22 am

    Hello morning

    I feel a bit stuffy

    A bit hot

    I hear the birds. It feels safe.

  13.  #13Boomer on May 12, 2011 at 10:23 am

    FW- from previous thread:

    “Peace sometimes for me is scary because it has a feeling like something is missing. I am trying to be comfortable with it.”


    In the last year, I have found a fairly peaceful place–I am the most content I have ever been as an adult. No underlying stress for the first time in my ENTIRE life. My divorce was final a year ago after four contentious years and the ex seemed to shill out a bunch. Finances are finally excellent. The kids are all healthy and well-adjusted and happy. I’m losing weight. My best friend ha taught e how to have fun again. My job doesn’t suck.

    At first, I was like, “What’s this? There’s no drama!? No one wants something from me? I feel…healthy!? This can’t be right!”

    Now, a year into the contentment, I still have some accepting work to do, but yes, I get what you mean by “feels like something’s missing.”

    In therapy a few years ago, I realized that I court chaos. I am not addicted to it necessarily, but because my day-in and day-out existence is one of responsibility and stability and normalcy, I would crave adventure and a little shake-up. I did that by choosing toxic men, engaging in risky behaviors, and attaching to crazy friends. I got the drama vicariously…and it seemed “safe,” because I could always point to my “normal” life as a mother, a good corporate employee, and an educated girl-next-door type: “See, I’m a good girl! No self-inflicted chaos here!”

    So I am recognizing now when I invite chaos/drama–and I’m consciously choosing the peace most of the time.

    Although sometimes a little craziness is still called for.

  14.  #14Bliss on May 12, 2011 at 10:34 am

    Its been a while lovely ladies, this is great.

    He asked me to give him a change to make us work.
    So we are trying,

    But i feel like this there is something wrong everyday

    i feel from the years where there was, that i am now totally paranoid, and i make it up and create problems.

    I would love to learn to brush it off, so i am going to try this, as i am now a little stress head and everyday a comment or look will take me back to a bad time in the past and i will think here we go again. I may be way off the mark, but my mood then creates a problem..

    i will give this ago, but i would love some advise on how to stop doing what i do..

    zoot zoot

  15.  #15kaitlyn on May 12, 2011 at 10:34 am

    All I learned from this entry was women have good intentions and men are a$$holes. This is WHY I no longer give a sh1t. For years I was considered selfish. Guess selfish is the way to go.

  16.  #16Elizabeth on May 12, 2011 at 10:36 am

    FW: “Peace sometimes for me is scary because it has a feeling like something is missing. I am trying to be comfortable with it.”

    liking this discussion…

    haha…yeah…for some reason I think of something I heard a young lady friend of my daughter say about looking at face book and seeing all these people putting stuff on their status that makes it look like they have much more exciting lives than she does,
    and it makes her feel bad.

    Peace can be scary because you begin not to care about that, how exciting other peoples lives are, because your peace has nothing to do with things. but then your doubts kick in and you wonder if you really are missing out on something, and that kicks up fear.


  17.  #17Leo on May 12, 2011 at 10:41 am

    Hi Rori,

    thanks for this post today. It helped me a lot – just the right time…

    2 weeks ago my new semester in university started and since then I am mostly staying at my place again (on weekends at his place), but during semester break i stayed at my man’s place more than at my own.

    I am trying to get used to it again, not seeing him as much, not talking to him as much. Sometimes I feel like I miss something in his life when he is not calling or texting. I wanna know whats going on in his life.

    I was doing a pretty good job during the past days with keeping myself busy and happy. And i was.
    Yesterday we have almost had no contact, only IMing a little in the morning. And again this morning; he was very cute!!
    But all day today…nothing… And now again at the start only IMing again… Then I got weak and asked if he wants to talk on the phone. He said yes.

    Gosh then the conversation got all weird. I dont know… Fell bad now somehow, unhappy, disappointed somehow and sad.
    I was hoping he would call, or text, or something…

    No the gremlin-voices are back…dont feel so strong as I did the last days.

    Feel annoyed right now…

    And… when we were talking on the phone, he was telling me his plans for the weekend, what he wants to do, and he never mentioned me really, only for sunday, for we have a competition there. So then I asked If we are gonna see each other. And he was totally confused by my question. He assumed I was gonna come. I looked like an idiot. Felt so bad. I just wanted him to ask me or tell me when to come, time, day….

    Feel so weak right now…
    Thanks for reaading, felt good to write!


  18.  #18Elizabeth on May 12, 2011 at 10:42 am

    15. kaitlyn,

    now, now, kaitlyn, maybe let’s not generalize!! 🙂

    many guys are good guys and have good intentions, but some are just “a$$holes in life” or have challenges that are best dealt with in a therapists care.


  19.  #19kaitlyn on May 12, 2011 at 10:44 am

    Basically, me can do whatever they want and if we feel insecure, it’s our problem not theirs, and we need to just accept it as to not ruffle their feathers. Screw this. I am DONE with dating. My life’s mission, i suppose, should be to just work work and make money. And keep starving myself. Make money, starve, rinse, repeat.

  20.  #20kaitlyn on May 12, 2011 at 10:48 am

    Elizabeth, god forbid i ask a guy a question because i CARE about him and the relationship. Looks like i can’t, judging by this entry, for i will come off as sounding insecure/emotionally needy and that will push him away.

  21.  #21Soul Sista on May 12, 2011 at 10:49 am

    Oh I love this topic 🙂 I have not gotten past track 5 on “Reconnect Your Relationship” and my standard feeling on this issue is:

    “What do I care what he’s thinking? It’s his head…” LOL!

    Think about him? Lean forward? NO WAY!

    i can’t go into details but just let me say i am getting everything i want…

  22.  #22Elizabeth on May 12, 2011 at 10:50 am

    19. Kaitlyn

    Well, I don’t buy into that men can do whatever they want and if we feel insecure, it’s our problem.

    Because as I’ve said before, they may act like dogs sometimes and be big scooby doos, but I’m not letting them off so easy on shirking their end of the relationship responsibilities. Their consciousness is big enough to see beyond just conditioning and behavioral psychology, but it’s easier not to have to go there.

    I for one, am not afraid to ruffle their feathers some. 😉


  23.  #23Elizabeth on May 12, 2011 at 10:57 am

    20. kaitlyn

    look, i have learned not to take everything said here so literally. it takes a lot of work to know when to apply advice, tools, etc. Not everyone’s experiences and relationships and advices apply to me and my relationships. sometimes they do, sometimes they don’t. relationships are like getting just the right ratios in a recipe, or a chemical formula, you try a little of this, subtract a little of that, add a little that, do your best, have a good intention, keep notes, and see what happens.

    so why do you CARE about him so much if he doesn’t care about you? Maybe he does care about you, but it seems to me that he has too much turmoil within himself to be of much value in a relationship with you. No backbone, useless.


  24.  #24kaitlyn on May 12, 2011 at 11:01 am

    Looks like my only solution is to date a loser with absolutely nothing going on. No inner turmoil there to get in the way. Maybe the Needle Exchange has a singles night? I’ll start there.

  25.  #25Elizabeth on May 12, 2011 at 11:05 am

    24. kaitlyn

    do you see how you go from one extreme to another?

    everyone has inner turmoil, but some have too much as to make them more unavailable than not.

    unless it is serving you in some way to try to get that to happen. a chase, a challenge ?

    how’s that working for ya so far ?


  26.  #26Daria on May 12, 2011 at 11:09 am

    I ju

  27.  #27Elizabeth on May 12, 2011 at 11:11 am

    kaitlyn, i think you are talking about being “numb”, or being in la-la land, but what we are really concerned with is avoiding high highs and low lows which work against real happiness and having lasting happiness–the kind which doesn’t put one out of touch, but rather, more IN touch with everyone and everything around you, making it better than ever.


  28.  #28Soul Sista on May 12, 2011 at 11:11 am

    …i feel if we feel insecure, yeah, that is our problem. there is a big difference between expressing what you do or don’t want, or expressing how you feel, without feeling completely insecure.

    i’m saying this from experience because i used to feel completely insecure and a couple of the ladies on here who know me personally know why and on the outside it may well have looked like i had damn good reason! but, after all the growth i’ve had in the past 5 months i will never feel that way again and he is RUNNING back to me.

    and even though i love him and was totally hung up on him i know without a shadow of a doubt i have as many options as there are hot, wonderful men out there and i’m going on dates…almost every night. and having a great time. and i’ll be in San Francisco on Saturday and having a birthday party there…and he knows it.

  29.  #29Daria on May 12, 2011 at 11:14 am

    I just did some EFT Erika style, using ‘I give myself permission to…”. And “they said [belief] and I bought into that belief hook line and sinker. And it’s not true.”

    From watching the free videos she has on her blog.

    And I did it on my sisters health and our relatuonship.

    Oh I feel good and free, I was feeling turny in the pit of my tummy before…
    I realized during EFT that Iight have been picking up on the energy She feels as far as her organs and stuff.

    I remember I used to do that w my mom, maybe still do , have learned to notice mine and moms separately now, no codependence.

    Yay healing!


  30.  #30Daria on May 12, 2011 at 11:16 am

    Why is life so amazing? Why am I able to take everything in from a moment a feed my soul? Why am I able to connect with the people that show up in a healing, magical way with no judgement? Why does everything I desire show up for me?

  31.  #31Soul Sista on May 12, 2011 at 11:18 am

    Daria ~ congratulations! sounds like you’ve grown a lot in the past 5 months, too!

  32.  #32Daria on May 12, 2011 at 11:21 am

    Bliss! Hi! I feel thrilled to see you!

    I’ll share what I do. When my thoughts start going there and I notice them, I use Rosa’s stop sign tool.

    In the moment, I look up sharp to the right … And see a big red stop sign for 5 seconds.

    Then look back to normal and choose a thought I want.., like ‘he thinks I’m beautiful!’. Or… ‘this situation is a sign I’m healing (no matter what the situation is or how not healing it looks)’

    My brain is much easier able to accept the new thought after the stop sign.

    And it usually works instantly for me to smile, a few repeats might be all it takes to shift my entire thinking.

    Hope this works for you – Rori has a post on this tool too… Or something else comes up for you that works …

    If u intend happiness, put your faith in it no matter what you see that doesn’t agree , you will have it!

  33.  #33Jenn on May 12, 2011 at 11:21 am

    Thank you for your previous post on last blog. Insightful and truthful. I feel I need to take several deeeeeep breaths throughout the day to stop my mind from going on and on and on.. this post is good.. I can easily come up with a thought that what he is thinking has nothing to do with me.. he is thinking about how to get his life on track so that he doesn’t miss out on an opportunity to be with someone as special and compassionate as me! That feels good for the moment. Today I felt mostly betrayed and angry that I kept thinking well doesn’t he miss my touch and holding me etc.. as he said he did two weeks ago?? how come he could hold me and want to be with me often tewo weeks ago and now not.. that’s the part that really gets my mind and body feeling crappy. So.. onward today and fill my head with good thoughts because I am worthy of a man coming to get me.. feeling the energy I have to give and someone who won’t take advantage of it. what do you think?

  34.  #34mali on May 12, 2011 at 11:23 am

    Okay, this is good! Whatever he’s thinking- it’s not about me. Just let it go. Let it gooo…

    We have a guy at work who’s started recently. He’s my age, and he’s immature, but a *lot* of fun to work with, as he can be such a flirt. He threw water at me yesterday at my ass region, and says, “You have a nice bum”. I’m thinking- did I just hear correctly?
    So he repeats, but slightly editing: “You have a nice, wet, bum”. I grin and turn away.
    The chemistry is amazing, and I think I’m high on it.
    But he also invited me out for drinks with the others this friday night, but I’ll be going home this weekend… I *wish* he’d hurry up and have the guts to ask me out!
    Come on, dude. You love my vibe. You love the fact that I don’t bitch and stoop down to others’ level; that I don’t try and *make* conversation with you. That I’m me, and I’m happy with that. But you’re too scared to ask me for fear I’ll say no!
    I’m worrying that he actually thought me saying I was going home was actually a blow off.
    But no no no- stop stop overthinking, Mali! STOP. No more overfunctioning. Let it be. Let him make the effort.
    Because at the end of the day you’re worth it.
    Whew… breathe!
    I feel a little looser, more relaxed, less hung up on him, a litle more peaceful. whew. Breathe.

  35.  #35Boomer on May 12, 2011 at 11:26 am

    Kaitlyn. Darlin’.

    I think I believe you come here to scowl and say semi-shocking hings to get it out of your system and to get support. So, here’s the support part: I am sometimes also irritated with the “boys will be boys” underpinnings of the advice here and it does rankle with my inner feminist. Why do they get to be such thoughtless pricks and we have to be all wise and confident and jsut go tra-la-la off to yoga instead?

    I know. I know.

    But somehow–and I have not fully reconciled my little Rori on the one shoulder with my little Gloria Steinem on the other shoulder–somehow, Rori’s way just works. I think it’s because of the peace and certainty it brings us that we are really fine without a man. But that we may want one.

    You are loved and accepted here, Kaitlyn, even when you scowl!

  36.  #36Daria on May 12, 2011 at 11:26 am

    Soul sista – thank you! For the past year and a half I’ve been growing enormously everyday… Life is so amazing.

    Ive been feeling so guilty that I may have upset you last time by asking u an insensitive assuming-type question that was not a feeling message and then you left the blog. Super sorry about that, I felt awful after (though my main intent was not to hurt you, I knew that might happen, I could’ve said something about Myself and My feelings)

    Feel so glad you are writing to me here now.

    I super admire you!



  37.  #37Boomer on May 12, 2011 at 11:32 am

    BUT…what about when it IS about me????

    He is not sure if I am THE ONE.

    He finds my laugh irritating.

    He’s bothered that I won’t cook for him or drive to him or initiate affection.

    He can’t believe I’m wearing THAT.

    But he trick I am working on is allowing him to think whatever he wants to without my needing to know. Allowing him to dislike my friends. Allowing him to scoff at the shoes with the floral applique that I think are darling! Allowing him to whine that I have not cooked for him yet. Allowing him to pout that my kids are around this weekend.

    And not trying to change his mind about any of it!

    But yeah, it’s hard.

  38.  #38Elizabeth on May 12, 2011 at 11:33 am

    33 Jenn

    Yes, Jenn, you’re doing good to begin to realize that not everything has to do with you…..who knows, maybe you were too fantastic for him to handle his feelings about it all, he’s confused, and he’s backing off, going in the cave. but meanwhile, he has not communicated anything clearly to you, so we are left with our own ruminations and investing our precious energy circuits into betrayal and anger, etc., which not only also affects our biology, as you have rightly observed, but also distract us from our own life, right here, right now, with so much beauty and wonder and fullness right in the present moment…rather than living with ghosts…
    i can tell you, i have been doing this, filling up my OWN well, instead of wondering why he can’t or don’t want to hold me or have all those good feelings, anymore, and connecting so wonderfully with all people and nature and beings around me.
    Yes, it is very magical. This…being present….is the fastest route to letting what is in your highest and best interest to come into your life.
    No worries, you are doing great !!


  39.  #39kaitlyn on May 12, 2011 at 11:34 am


    Thanks. I know stuff here works. Leaning back, not overfunctioning, etc. But I still think, even though Rori says not to stuff your feelings, a lot of this ‘it’s your stuff, don’t ask him if anything’s wrong’ is kinda stuffing your feelings.

    And I don’t come here just to bitch and whine. I’ve offered plenty sirens support and advice.

  40.  #40Daria on May 12, 2011 at 11:36 am

    Oh Leo, my heart goes out to you!

    You know, OnLy YOU have the power to change this, a la Smoky the bear.

    You can love yourself up so much that you loneliness is soothed, and that you don’t reach out, or thunk about Him reaching out to you…

    You Can! A challenge since you are exclusively seeing this man… But doable. Going out without him. A the time. Dating yourself…

    Doing something new you might like. Like painting rock climbing dancing.

    Reading about mythology (I do this hehe)

    maybe some man friends? If you have some?

    You can get to this place where he starts complaining about lack of contact… And you say… Oh it feels so good to hear you want to see me, and I don’t want to ne complained to, it would feel great to see you

    Then He makes plans and asks you

    And chases you around

    Because you don’t even know what’s going on w him so much, as far as what his schedule is… Because you don’t stay on to have those kinds of convos…

    Your convos are all about feelings, depth, and flirting… And more and more connection comes in after that period of distance, but now it’s connection if Romance and him giving to you a d asking about you.

    I know this is possible, the start is the intent and starting to love your own self and soothing your own booboos and lonelier like you would a child.

  41.  #41Daria on May 12, 2011 at 11:43 am

    Kaitlyn –

    He doesn’t have to be an asshole, he’s responsible for the same. What if he was constantly saying: ‘you don’t like me huh?’. – we don’t like those kinds of guys. It’s like, um no, I was looking at tv, but it feels weird to be asked that (wtf)

    So he’s actually doing the same by not talking that way to u’s.

    Maybe saying… I feel some fiancé between u’s… Is something going on… Is a question to ask.

  42.  #42Boomer on May 12, 2011 at 11:43 am

    I know, Kaitlyn. I know you do offer lots of support! I’m sorry if I made it seem as if you just bring shock-value. Not at all! I think sometimes you articulate things on here lots of us are thinking but that may not be “blogly correct.” I appreciate that–that’s brave.

    We all have riff moments. I admit though that your self-anger scares me for you. I find some of your statements provocative (not saying YOU provoke–tried to “own” that one myself). The not eating part is particularly foreign to me and makes me feel scared for you–considering that I can’t seem to STOP eating!

    I just wanted to acknowledge you but also express how sometimes I feel alarm at your anger toward yourself. But if this forum is a good outlet for you to safely express the anger, then I may just need to shut up and let you do your thing 🙂

    Just…love and hugs and a little concern! I swear that’s all I mean.

  43.  #43The Lurker on May 12, 2011 at 11:50 am

    #15 “All I learned from this entry was women have good intentions and men are a$$holes.”
    Imho you got that wrong, Kaitlyn. The real lesson is, men aren’t women! So, don’t expect them to react in the same way as you do.

    “Guess selfish is the way to go.” If that’s the way that makes you happy…

    #24 “Looks like my only solution is to date a loser with absolutely nothing going on. No inner turmoil there to get in the way. Maybe the Needle Exchange has a singles night? I’ll start there.”
    Lol, Kaitlyn! Good to see your humor is still very much alive.

  44.  #44Elizabeth on May 12, 2011 at 11:52 am

    Hey, Lurks, where ya been? Missed ya! 🙂


  45.  #45Bliss on May 12, 2011 at 11:53 am

    Daria, its been a while and its nice to be back seeing familiar faces.

    It warmed me up.

    I will try what u an rori have suggested..

    I want to learn to not feel like i am always the reason for the mood change.

    maybe i am way too insecure , as i feel like this with my girlfriends as well.

  46.  #46The Lurker on May 12, 2011 at 12:00 pm

    #44 Missed you, too, Liz!
    Well, I had some stuff to do in rl. And somehow no motivation to add my two cent here. Happens every now and then.

  47.  #47Corin on May 12, 2011 at 12:14 pm

    Hey Sirens, I posted here a few weeks ago and looking for some perspective on something.

    I’m working with some resistance to recieving from my man still. Things are going great (4 months), he’s leading a lot but i keep finding myself trying to give to him. It’s mostly in the form of paying for things. Sometimes when we are at the till (maybe in the supermarket for example) and I will find myself getting more and more anxious about paying and who will pay and then wooosh, when we get to the card swiper, I grab my card and shove it in the machine before he even has the chance to blink. Why do I do it????

    I’m wondering if it’s about control and feeling vulnerable and a belief that if he pays then I OWE.

    It was his birthday the other day and I saw that as an ‘appropriate’ time to give to him and arranged some gifts, homemade card, homemade chocolates, champage etc but now I’m worried that I’ve got mysef into a giving, leaning forward overdrive. Aargh. Still not sure why I’m doing this to him/ myself.

    I try to telling myself that he can’t fall in love when recieving but….I’m feeling embarassed to admit this I’ve even started chastising him and telling him “you need to learn to recieve more”. WTF!! It’s like I’m trying to make him into a WORSE boyfriend.

    Am I alone here in doing this? Any perspectives would be appreciated.

  48.  #48Leo on May 12, 2011 at 12:23 pm

    Hey Daria,

    thanks for your comment.
    You always help me a lot. Just to read this for it’s what I wanna think.

    I actually have (had) lots of guy friends. But the one I spent lots of time with the past couple of month now has a girlfriend and spend like every second with her. 😉

    I am getting better at keeping myself busy and happy. It works well. Just had a weak moment earlier. Actually its already past!

    I opened myself a bottle of champagne, took my nail file, sat down on my couch and started watching a movie 🙂 Was lots of fun. Once in a while my thoughts went back to him, but I was able to stop myself.
    Actually, I was thinking about apologizing (via IM) to him, for my strange behaviour (it really wasnt me, just got triggered by something). Well, I am happy that I didnt. I did not lean forward. He called me and told me what tomorrow’s gonna happen and how (with his daughter) and then ASKED me when I am gonna come, what I have in mind and gave me his thoughts. Then we had a nice chitty-chat. Made me feel even happier!
    When I picked up the phone, he said “ooh, u sound better again. I am glad.” And I was….I took care of myself and made me happy.

    I am very much looking forward to our weekend now.

    Thanks again, Daria.
    And yes, I wanna get to the place where he starts complaining about the lack of time we spend together. But if he steps up before, it doesnt even have to go there.
    I feel so strong again right now!
    Yes 🙂


  49.  #49Jean on May 12, 2011 at 12:25 pm

    Corin #47 – we have all been taught for so long, that its better to give then to get to give then receive. we have always been the nuturing ones, the giving ones. its hard to break that habit. You are on the right track, because you recognize what you are doing. its baby steps to hold yourself back at these times. you might want to try some of the things rori suggests to “freeze” yourself in these moments. and that may help you in baby steps to eventually stop the “giving” and take the giving. when you feel like you must “jump in ” and pay…stop yourself…physically force yourself to stop..and then breathe…just stop and breathe…in and out, in and out…feel yourself relax…and then lean back. see if that maybe helps to get you out of that automatic mode….I know, its hard to stop after all the time of being told what to do to show our love…I hope this helps you!

  50.  #50Daria on May 12, 2011 at 12:27 pm

    Loool autocorrect! I feel some fiancé between u’s!

    That’s: I feel some distance between us.

  51.  #51Bliss on May 12, 2011 at 12:28 pm

    Corrin, i find myself falling into this trap as well.

    I have caught myself and thought ” What the’

    I am sure other sirens could help out, as I am in the midst of fixing something that been damaged badly, I find i am very insecure, and struggle with anyone being in a bad mood, or wanting to pay, as i feel i owe them or i have caused their mood.

    I want to find a way to stop this and not feel like i am the reason they are sad, angry , or great now i will have to repay them for wha they just bought.

    I hope i am making some sense, and i hope we can both get some adivse…

    I have stopped my rollercoaster ride, just need to tweak a few issues.


  52.  #52Leo on May 12, 2011 at 12:29 pm

    @ 45 Bliss,

    hi, i just picked this up…dont know if i really am right with my guessing…
    You were speaking of “mood change” and “insecurity” and it being “your fault”…

    I think i can relate to that…
    Sometimes if my man’s mood changes, mine does to. I cant help it. And then, he already is fine and happy again, but I am still not feeling happy yet again. And then he asks me what is wrong with me. Although I wanna scream “what was wrong with u”. I often think his mood changes are my fault for i feel insecure.

    I talked with him about it. And he says that sometimes when he is in a bad mood he would want me to not let it affect me and just stay happy and treat him in a normal way. (its hard…and i am still bad at it).
    And that me also feeling annoyed just makes it more complicated.

    I am working on this big time and I hope that I will feel more secure about myself there!

    Hope you will too!


  53.  #53Daria on May 12, 2011 at 12:34 pm

    Yay Leo!

  54.  #54Daria on May 12, 2011 at 12:34 pm

    Yay mali!

  55.  #55Jean on May 12, 2011 at 12:35 pm

    Corrin, it took me a long time too. I felt very “aware of it”..but with the current man, I have used feeling messages. and that seems to have worked for both of us…at least with him and at least for now. I would say, wow, I feel uncomfortable that you are paying. It would feel good to pay this time, I would feel happy to share…and then he says…oh, no, I wouldnt dream of having you pay, that is my job, I have your smile and your laughter and your company to enjoy. so then, I just smile big and say THank you! and I get a big hug and smile back. so he is happy and I am happy but I have addressed it. so I think its the “manly man”(LOL) in him, its his way of being the boy and doing his job of stepping up. I do still do things on a different level though. He makes much more money then me and we both know it. so I do things that I feel make us both feel good. I cook dinner sometimes, because it makes me “FEEL HAPPY/GOOD” to do this. “I felt so happy to make dinner for us tonite, it felt good to cook this meal for “US”. and then we are both happy. what do you think, Corrin?

  56.  #56Daria on May 12, 2011 at 12:36 pm

    Soul sista if you’re having an open birthday party like at a public venue I wanna come!

  57.  #57Bliss on May 12, 2011 at 12:36 pm

    Thanks Leo

    wow, thats what happens and I make it even worse, and as you said sometimes there was nothing wrong, and argggggggggggggggggggggggg

    I have this problem with my girlfriends as well, they snub me, yell at me, and are short with me , when they are in bad moods, I feel like i am just their sounding boards . they always complain they never get to go out, when i make arrangements to go out, they say they can’t . then complain the next week that their man always goes out..

    I cop their moods, its feels like i wear their burden as well and me offering them an out, makes them angry why i don;t know !

    No one is ever available to go out, and I don’t feel comfortable going out alone,

    ohh to not be so worried about others


  58.  #58Brenda on May 12, 2011 at 12:40 pm


    Hi, how can I help you? I feel so grieved how it seems you torture yourself with these thoughts about men, and starving yourself (I wish we could change appetites for just one year, long enough for me to get back to 150 lbs and a size 12! 🙂 ).

    What I hear beneath your posts is, “I am screaming in pain beneath my perfect, size zero body and my broken relationship! I want to love and be loved! I am beginning to lose faith in men and am scared I will never get that.” I mean, I am not trying to put words in your mouth…I am not telling you what you feel. I am just saying my perception…

    I hear a cry for help. So, how can I help you?

    I love you, and I care.

  59.  #59Jacqueline on May 12, 2011 at 12:47 pm

    FW – hope you see my verbal hug on last post.


  60.  #60Meemee on May 12, 2011 at 12:49 pm

    I am at my parents
    Not a great time.
    Mom asking about marriage and finding a man for me.
    Feeling low.
    But I am enjoying my time away from many other things
    Health is getting better. I am happy about it
    But still
    Feeling low and dull

  61.  #61Daria on May 12, 2011 at 12:50 pm

    Bliss – I used to feel uncomfortable going out alone, and babystepping out to do it has changed my life… I feel so free and empowered and proud of myself and less lonely than before

  62.  #62Leo on May 12, 2011 at 12:51 pm


    I know how it is that when you wanna go out no one is available. here in Germany you often have those “outside-bars” where a bar has an outside area like a garden. In the summer I go there by myself if the garden is nice, just take a book and enjoy the warmth. Dont need anyone else to do this.

    Tomorrow my man’s daugher is coming over and spending the night and I will stay at his place too. Its always a challenge cause he often gets stressed out with “two girls around”. Then his mood jumps over to me. One time, we were down town at an Easter Market shopping, we decided we should take a little break from each other. So he went of for a half an hour, cooled off, and then got back to us 😀
    I think i will have some opportunity to work on myself and the mood changes.
    And generally being more self-confident,

    I hope you will have some progress on that topic too!

    We just have to believe in ourselves!
    We are awesome!


  63.  #63Soul Sista on May 12, 2011 at 12:54 pm

    Daria ~ i sent you an invite on Facebook 🙂 i have not thought at all about anything you may have said to me and i don’t even know what you are talking about!

    see what we do? LOL!

    as i was saying before i left for AZ with my mom…i take full responsibility for changing my reactions in regards to men and relationships and relationships in general.

    for me, i got professional help from a facilitator from The Field Center. $125 – best money i ever spent in my ENTIRE LIFE. i was also able to clear a lifelong resentment i had toward my mother and able to really be here for her because my brother died 4 weeks ago.

    i am now clear and when you are clear…you enjoy Rori’s tools 🙂

  64.  #64Meemee on May 12, 2011 at 12:56 pm

    I went to meet my grandparents
    Cooked for them
    Happy 🙂

  65.  #65kaitlyn on May 12, 2011 at 1:00 pm

    My 40th birthday is Thursday. If I dide, I wouldn’t give a shit.

  66.  #66Daria on May 12, 2011 at 1:03 pm

    Fw – this sounds like my home!!! With the parental criticism and freezing up instead of saying I don’t want to be talked to that way. Babysteps. Super scary healing. Super scary.

    When you said you always have an easy time standing up for yourself, I imagined you as that You would not have these same problems. You’d always be able to stand up for you.

    So I feel touched and reassured and excited to hear that you have similar challenges, because I probably look strong and tough and powerful like you then to outside.

    Well I don’t want to trigger you with tough’. I know how tough is and I used it to shield my actually very vulnerable girl.

    Here’s to our healing and our Babysteps.

    I feel wowed by the powerful cathartic effect the EFT seems to be having on you from over here.

    I feel like crying now and I don’t know why

    Can’t see screen anymore

    Lobe Daria

  67.  #67Laughing Goddess on May 12, 2011 at 1:05 pm


    You remind me of me when I feel super hungry.

    Life sucks, everything sucks and then I miraculously feel better after I eat something.

    Don’t know if that’s what is going on with you.

    I feel worried this post is just going to piss you off.

    Hope not! (((hugs)))

  68.  #68kaitlyn on May 12, 2011 at 1:07 pm

    The friends who instigated planning my party are already flaking. There are stat updates all over my fb page of me expressing my excitement about celebrating. Everyone but Adam has commented. A $2k photo job just got canceled and meanwhile I’m growing debt up to my ears because my bff and I are filming a documentary on a show string budget and I hate working with him because all he does is complain I’m not doig stuff rigth and when I ask what needs to be done, he just shakes his head and mutters that I’m not focusses otherwise I’d know what needs to be done. I fail at relationships, i fail at work, i fail at friendships, i just wasnt meant to be here on this earth.

  69.  #69kaitlyn on May 12, 2011 at 1:08 pm

    i ate already. hungry isnt the issue

  70.  #70kaitlyn on May 12, 2011 at 1:13 pm

    and i feel so nervous shooting stuff in front of my friend because he’s so more tech advanced than i am, i get even more nervous. if he yells at me i just accept it. i consider it paying my dues or else i’ll be stuck shooting pics of girls with dildos in their twats forever.

  71.  #71Laughing Goddess on May 12, 2011 at 1:15 pm

    Kaitlyn: I don’t really know what to say. I want to offer support and friendship yet I’m not sure how to help.

    How can I support you?

    I’d like to tell you NV’s to stuff it. But I guess we’re supposed to give them a hug or cookie or something.

  72.  #72kaitlyn on May 12, 2011 at 1:15 pm

    if he forgets his tripod, i’m the one to blame for not reminding him. stuff likethat. i just go dead inside and pretend its not happening. how’s THAT for ‘it’s your stuff’ and doing a great job at ignoring my triggers.

  73.  #73Laughing Goddess on May 12, 2011 at 1:17 pm

    And I’d also like to tell your bff to start acting like one. I feel annoyed by how he treats you.

  74.  #74kaitlyn on May 12, 2011 at 1:19 pm

    Now i’m remembering, which relates to this post, how i told adam i’m feeling left out in his life. as in why does facebook get the big news on something about his job before his own gf? told him i’m cool with how hard he works but i just need to feel like i matter somewhere up there. he said ‘eventually, we’re all responsible for our own feelings.’ yep, moral of rori’s story is its our fault for being into connecting and communicating.

  75.  #75The Lurker on May 12, 2011 at 1:22 pm

    #65 #68 Oh, Kaitlyn, dear…
    Haven’t you’ve been through bad times before? When money was scarce? Remember those times, and that there’s always sun after the rain. Isn’t there a fun friend somewhere who is good at cheering you up? Would a hug help?
    Oops, sry, I forgot, I’m wet and I smell like a muddy pond!

  76.  #76kaitlyn on May 12, 2011 at 1:23 pm


  77.  #77kaitlyn on May 12, 2011 at 1:25 pm

    scrace? i’m in freakin debt just like before paris. and no way can i whore again. i just can’t. adam ruined that for me.

  78.  #78Corin on May 12, 2011 at 1:25 pm

    Jean, Bliss; thank you. I’m realising that I almost aggressively give to him sometimes in a really insistent way. Not at all in a soft, feminine way. I will try the ‘freeze’ next time. However I’m worried that by deciding to ‘freeze’ that means I now have expectations of him paying. Expectations are leaning forward. The conflict in my beliefs/wants is annoying me. I guess I need to get clear on being happy to recieve and focus more on that than the the resistance. Maybe focus on being worthy of recieving.

    My Dad is REALLY adverse to giving anything to anyone and as a consequence is not in my life, something which must not be coincidental.

    Hmmm….I’m scared that recieving will leave me wanting and not getting. Wanting and recieving feel so closely linked to me and I know that’s not how Rori teaches it. I guess that’s why recieving makes me feel vulnerable and giving makes me feel powerful as then I’ll never be left wanting and not getting what I want. I want to trust that I will ALWAYS get what I need from either myself or a man and it doesn’t really matter which of us is giving me what I need as I will ALWAYS be able to give myself what I need. That feels good, peaceful.

  79.  #79kaitlyn on May 12, 2011 at 1:27 pm

    73 I can’t because he tells me i’m just being defensive and he’ll start throwing things or driving the car super aggressively. one day i hope we back into another car and i die.

  80.  #80Femininewoman on May 12, 2011 at 1:28 pm

    Thanks Jacqueline and Daria.

  81.  #81Femininewoman on May 12, 2011 at 1:30 pm

    kaitlyn it seems you are hooked into the drama but I like your straight arrow shooting with the way you feel. I kind of feel like Boomer about your posting but I also know you are wading your way through the soup and muck. You will get to the top one of these days and I know you will find that man who is able to love you just the way you are. Your bluntness is adorable.

  82.  #82The Lurker on May 12, 2011 at 1:30 pm

    #77 Sry, I ain’t got an easy solution for this, neither, or else I wouldn’t be so broke…

    Sry, it looks like my comments only make it worse for you. Maybe you girls need a masculine free blog for some hours now…

  83.  #83Corin on May 12, 2011 at 1:32 pm


    I hear you speaking out a lot of your NVs. How do you feel about just writing your feelings? Scared, angry etc? Sometimes I find just letting them flow out of me and then taking care of myself (hug, tears, whatever) really helps rather than searching for a solution or fix. x

  84.  #84Femininewoman on May 12, 2011 at 1:32 pm

    RE 72 I know how that feels. I had a guy who used to tell me he was late because I did not wake him up. It triggered me so badly but when I pointed it out to him he would apologize and then he learnt to change his speech. I said that feels bad and I feel blamed.

  85.  #85Elizabeth on May 12, 2011 at 1:32 pm


    “he said ‘eventually, we’re all responsible for our own feelings.”

    this is a true statement, but the big but here is that being responsible for one’s own feelings is definitely not mutually exclusive with caring about your significant other’s feelings.

    So, if he doesn’t care about your feelings…..what else is there to say?

    And, i might add…that is no reflection on you, the way you think it is.

    Also, I don’t like it one bit how your bff is treating you, but he is letting you know that your obsession with Adam is f*cking with your focus, concentration, your life.

    love ya, kaitlyn, hang in there with all of us !!


    That is the question.

  86.  #86kaitlyn on May 12, 2011 at 1:33 pm


    why are you suggesting leaving the board just because i wasn’t melting upon your post to me? get a grip. people here like your advice. not all of us are just here to have men on board to just be an ear or kiss our ass.

  87.  #87kaitlyn on May 12, 2011 at 1:35 pm

    85 honestly i havent even been thinking about him because this documentary consumes my every thought. another eason why i havent been on here much.

  88.  #88Femininewoman on May 12, 2011 at 1:35 pm

    RE 77 Could his purpose in your life have been to show you that you should value yourself? It seems like the memory of him brings out a lot of toxicity and NVs so you can hear and see yourself and then to move to healing.

  89.  #89Laughing Goddess on May 12, 2011 at 1:36 pm

    Kaitlyn sweetie, my heart hurts and I wish I could be there to give you a hug and take you out to do something fun.

    You don’t deserve to be treated that way by your bff.

    We all love you hear. We see you light and intelligence and beauty.

    You don’t deserve the self-hatred that you are pouring over yourself.

    So what, you had sex for money. Big deal! It’s your body. You didn’t hurt anyone. It’s sex.

    Do you feel angry with yourself? Do you think you deserve to be treated like crap by your bff?

  90.  #90kaitlyn on May 12, 2011 at 1:36 pm


    I’m writing my feelings out. here.

  91.  #91Femininewoman on May 12, 2011 at 1:36 pm

    RE 86 kaitlyn maybe he is inviting you to practice melting?

  92.  #92Jacqueline on May 12, 2011 at 1:37 pm

    Kaitlyn!!! Stop. Do the stop sign. Stop stop stop. Not writing, stop this line of thought and make a right turn, a left turn an any turn!!!!

    I feel scared for you because I believe that if you do not find a way (and it might be a miracle happens – I’m open to any way) to love yourself, no one’s going to be able to do this for you.

    Call ADAM!!! Is it possible for you to feel any worse? If he can’t make you hurt worse, then what do you have to lose?

    If he makes you feel better that would be wonderful.

    If you read this and you think oh, nooooooo….I just can’t – there’s your answer.

    Does your friend think you stink at documentaries? I know he doesn’t sound especially supportive…but would he have you there if he did. You aren’t as experienced, of course there’s a learning curve.

    Find someone somewhere somehow to help you, to hold you to give to you what you can’t give to yourself – unconditional approval, acceptance and love.

    please please please please please please

    Tell Brenda how she can help you – she’s GREAT at that, and look she manifested a miracle out of a dog bite and a hospital trip. Tell someone.

    Or just write it out – we are ALL here with you -me and who knows how many people who aren’t writing – maybe 200?!

    You are not alone.

  93.  #93kaitlyn on May 12, 2011 at 1:38 pm

    the thought of another guy except adam touching me SICKENS ME

  94.  #94kaitlyn on May 12, 2011 at 1:41 pm

    91 i know how to frickin melt. i did that with adam. thats how i felt being with him.

  95.  #95Elizabeth on May 12, 2011 at 1:41 pm

    87. well, i feel you in a lot of pain, and we all wish we could help you. still….it’s your process, and I honor that. you know we’re here for you. i hope working on the documentary will give you a lot of joy. 🙂


  96.  #96Femininewoman on May 12, 2011 at 1:44 pm

    RE 94 I honor you kaitlyn, melting is not the easiet thing for me to do. I am learning now with EFT. As it helps me change my beliefs and my blocks I find myself melting and crying a lot.

  97.  #97Femininewoman on May 12, 2011 at 1:47 pm

    Even though I feel all this pain and anger, I love myself deeply and profoundly.

    Even though I feel all this fear I accept myself.

    I release all the pain, the anger, and the fear.

  98.  #98Laughing Goddess on May 12, 2011 at 1:48 pm

    Kaitlyn: is there any way you can find a part of you that can hug your little girl who is hurting inside?

  99.  #99Laughing Goddess on May 12, 2011 at 1:49 pm

    And do the stop sign tool to quiet the nv’s?

  100.  #100Femininewoman on May 12, 2011 at 1:51 pm

    RE 66 I would not say I froze, I kept asking what did I do. I was more focussed on pleasing and I guess validation. I kept the conversation going the whole time and don’t even remember feeling anything in my body. Maybe I went numb??? hhhmmmm

  101.  #101Corin on May 12, 2011 at 1:51 pm


    I’ve just re- read your posts today and the only feeling you’ve written is “nervous”. I’m guessing you feel a lot more than nervous. I know this is quite possibly going to come across as debating semantics and nit picking but I REALLY do find that stepping out of the thoughts, judgements, assumptions, etc and into feelings (scared, angry ets) helps. Otherwise we stay trapped in a negative loop of a thoughts and resist giving ourselves love and comfort.

    I would love to see you list all the feelings going through you right now but accept you might not be in a place to want to hear/ do that.

  102.  #102Femininewoman on May 12, 2011 at 1:52 pm

    By the way Jacqueline it is my home. What I thought about afterwards is can you imagine at my age, with two kids and in my home they are treating me this way.

  103.  #103Femininewoman on May 12, 2011 at 1:54 pm

    kaitlyn I am wondering if anything specific happened today that triggered these feelings?

  104.  #104The Lurker on May 12, 2011 at 1:55 pm

    #87 Kaitlyn, I understand many of your negative feelings come from the documentary? Afraid of the unfamiliar challenges in that? Try making a list of all the stuff you know about filming, to get away from the negative focus. And then think about the ways you can put your experiences to good use. And don’t forget you once started with the porno shoots, too, and it worked out well. Yes, you can!

  105.  #105Femininewoman on May 12, 2011 at 2:00 pm

    RE 104 You know you might be on to something there. Kaitlyn I am wondering if what you are experiencing now is fear of failure or is it fear of success?

  106.  #106Queenbee on May 12, 2011 at 2:00 pm

    Summerbaby – yeah, that was me who’s painting my ‘the one’. I love your idea! Please share more as you go along.

    I got my drawing done today (but not my ‘the one’ painting) – so I’m painting Sat evening. Then I have one more painting to before I do my ‘the one’. Really looking forward to it 🙂

    Jacqueline – thanks for posting to me on the other thread. I really like how Dr. Paul talks about looking at a man’s resources broadly.

    I feel more free and at ease now with this. I thought something was ‘wrong’ with me when I would observe and consider these things in men. Then somehow, I would doubt myself and be with men who could not give me these things. Feel guilty and shameful for what I felt/ wanted. Now I see that it’s just a part of my femininity…. and expressing my femininity is powerful! I love this!! 🙂

    Daria – thanks for responding to my EFT Question. FW, TMizz – I hope you received my acknowledgment. Yeah, I’ve got started and it’s working/ helping… I think. I do feel something shift…

    DE – thanks for your post to me on the other thread. I feel good letting go of judgments. I see how based in my trauma of my past with ex-bf that was. I’m better now.

    This post from Rori was so timely. I remember writing a couple times on the last post that ‘who knows what he’s thinking’. I feel so happy that Rori affirmed this. Now I can just practice and see what opens up 🙂


  107.  #107Laughing Goddess on May 12, 2011 at 2:03 pm

    Summerbaby: I love your idea of the hike meditation and holding hands pictures.

    I might have to borrow both. 🙂

  108.  #108gina on May 12, 2011 at 2:03 pm

    this is so weird – I don’t have voice right now. Aaagh it feels bad. at first I kinda liked it. And at first I thought it was hilarious to think of Phoebe from Friends wanting to keep her “sexy voice” but now I feel scared!! I want my voice back!!

  109.  #109Laughing Goddess on May 12, 2011 at 2:06 pm

    Kaitlyn is getting bombarded with suggestions and love.

    You still there Kaitlyn?

    If you just want to riff too please don’t let us distract you. It’s just that we all really care.


  110.  #110Corin on May 12, 2011 at 2:07 pm

    RE: 104.
    I don’t believe there is any such thing as ‘negative feelings’, only those we are more comfortable in embracing and those we are less so, and therefore have developed unhealthy ways of dealing with.

  111.  #111Daria on May 12, 2011 at 2:09 pm

    I am here to have men just be an ear and kiss my ass!

    Mm I feel angry!

    Why do I feel triggered?

    I love my heat.

    It sounds like it’s not ‘good’ to just want men to listen to me and be kind to me.

    Like this is ‘weak’ or ‘wrong’ or ‘selfish’ ?

    Ok to feelings

    I feel tingling in the back of my neck.

    I feel sigh

    I frell tummy turn

    I feel pinch in cheek

    I feel hot in abdomen

    I feel angry

    I feel tight in shoulders

    I feel big breath

    I feel pinching in temple on right

    I feel tingling in thigh on right

    I feel big breath

    I feel spine curved

    I feel heavy arms head

    I live all my feelings

    I feel pinched index finger

    I feel big breath

    I feel hmmf

    I feel smile

    I feel tingly abdomen

    I feel big breath

    I feel hot abdomen

    I feel tingling brain

    I feel dizzy

    I feel breath

    I feel tight in abdomen

    I feel pout

    I feel heavier bending spine

    I feel big breath

    I feel tingling toes

    I feel pinching right shoulder

    I feel nausea

    I feel vibrating ear

    I feel tingling thumb

    I feel breath

    I feel tingling left pinky

    I love my feelings

  112.  #112Jacqueline on May 12, 2011 at 2:10 pm

    FW – yes, I understood that and it made me feel worse. I think it has something to do with how we auto-regress around family? When I had to fight my brother and his lawyer because they’d changed my mother’s will – it’s a lot of sh*t story, but his real estate lawyer wrote my mother’s will, my mother made a last minute chage and they – brother and lawyer – made key changes to the wording of it saying I would have to go occupy the house and live in it to keep it…without telling her. I had witnesses. Awful stuff…

    anyway at that time, I realised that I did that, too. I regressed and he subconciously upgressed to thinking he could cower me and boss me and not pay back thousands of dollars he owed her.

    His lawyer made him, he’d taken the paperwork from the house – I still don’t know how she did that – but I really got a graphic realization that I literally could not afford to be anything less than my grown up best self with him, or my sister.

    If I let them put me in the role of little sister I can push over easily….they would make decisions that would affect the rest of my life – and NOT in my best interest.

    I know it must be 100 times harder with them in your home and being your parents; and that’s such a loving gesture and so grand on your part and then to have it trivialized…is really sad. I’m sorry – and maybe it’s just their pattern or maybe they can’t let themselves think of any way other than you are their child so they get to beat you up the way they **always** have?

    But you know better, you know how strong you are, how loving and how giving. And you can break thru those old patterns and re-parent yourself. And know you’re “high value.” You having them there is a very high value thing, and speaks volumes about how capable, smart, loving and tolerant you are – whether they ever see it or not. I do – it’s hugely generous and loving.

  113.  #113Brenda on May 12, 2011 at 2:14 pm


    A few days ago, I told a little bit about a deer I tried to rescue off the highway. I poured out my love on that broken little deer, and then it hit me a couple days later, that deer was me.

    I so relate to you, because I have not felt a will to live in recent weeks, in my process of walking away from Ryan. It’s not so much that I’ve been suicidal…I just haven’t felt a desire to live. I had chosen the quit option. I was spending much of my days laying in bed, curled up cuddling with my dogs.

    I seek comfort, warmth, love, tenderness, caring, and understanding.

    One place I seek it is in food: it touches me; it’s soft, warm; feels good; fills me. I have realized I have had a love affair with food, because I didn’t have the love of a man. But it’s self-defeating, self-sabotaging. My body doesn’t need more nutrition – my heart does.

    I heard the story of a Navy Seal on Sunday, who wrote a book, “Sole Survivor”. He survived an ambush by 150 Afghan soldiers while he was with a group of 20 Navy Seals. He talked mostly about their training, which led up to the incident.

    They were given severe physical training that was painful and nearly impossible. They were given a bell to ring that was their quit option, if it got to be too much. But it was with the understanding that once they rang the quit bell, there was no second chance to become a Navy Seal. Experience had shown that once a man quits, he will quit again, often in the heat of battle.

    So this Navy Seal determined there WAS no quit option. And the talk I heard about it encouraged listeners to remove the quit option. I didn’t know how, because Ryan shattered my hopes and dreams. But I determined to remove the quit option.

    It was that night when my dogs bit a man, and on the way home from the hospital, around 3 am, that I saw Bambi laying in the middle of two lanes of a highway. I turned around, and I lifted him with my arms around his ribcage, locking my hands under his chest, and carried him off the road onto the grass.

    I took my dogs home, contacted a bunch of wildlife rehabs on the internet and by phone, and I returned, 25 miles away, to the deer. It was now 5:30 am. Traffic was heavier, and the deer was tiring, but obviously terrified being next to traffic in the grass.

    I lifted him again, setting him inside the back of my station wagon. Later the rehab people told me he was a one year old buck, about 150 lbs. It had to be adrenaline that enabled me to even lift him, because I am in poor shape after 2 months of bronchitis this winter.

    I left him on a crib mattress and sleeping bag in my car while I slept from 6:30 am – 10:30 am. I made more calls, finally finding a rehab that would take him and not just tell me to call the cops and let them shoot him.

    I drove 1.5 hours to the wildlife rehab, even tho they told me they would probably have to put him down. On the trip there, Bambi positioned his face about 6 inches from my face, and I looked into the gentle soul of a deer. I felt trust and thanks in that beautiful moment.

    Even tho they had to put him down, he died compassionately, in the hands of compassionate people. And he was removed from the terror of cars and trucks inches from his broken body. And he knew the safety of love and compassion in his moment of need.

    In rescuing Bambi, I felt a shift in my passion for life. It started to creep back. It hit me on Tuesday that I lifted me out of the middle of the highway. I went out of my way to lift me into my car, and spent a half tank of gas and half a day to take me to a rehab. I did everything in my power so I would live.

    Kaitlyn, will you love you? Will you pick yourself up off the highway, and remove yourself from the danger of being in the emotionally abusive friendship with your bff who is damaging you? Will you remove yourself from the danger of your death wish and drive yourself to a place that will give you free, emotional, professional help?

    We need to be loved. And, as hard as it is, that love must start with us loving ourselves. I still hurt, and I still feel grieved that the man I loved the most hurt me. I still want to be held by a loving, accepting man. I still spent half the day curled up in bed with my dogs today. I am not saying overnight I am magically healthy and happy again.

    But that’s where Rori’s baby steps come in. Today I loved me by taking care of me by taking time to love me. I loved me by calling a few loving, supportive friends and family who know me well. I loved myself by seeking warmth and softness on my email and internet. So here’s a hug for you, and a prayer that you will give yourself a hug and big salad, too!

    Feel free to email me at brendaearthlink@yahoo.com.

  114.  #114Boomer on May 12, 2011 at 2:15 pm

    Three things…no, wait…four:

    – I think I passed my kidney stone last night. No definitive “plink” in the potty, but I feel better and the pressure is gone. Yay me!

    – I lost .8 pound this week on WeightWatchers, despite hving eaten a pie (yes, not a piece..a PIE) and a large mixing bowl of macaroni salad on Mother’s Day. For a grand total of 1.2 pounds in three weeks. Yay me AGAIN! It’s nice to know I can have my pie and lose (a little) weight too.

    – It is my lovely eldest child’s 18t birthday. I cannot believe she is this beautiful woman and frankly, that I am old enough to have an adult daughter. Yikes! I remember looking into her lovely blue eyes the moment I got to first hold her and saying to her daddy, “We made this!”

    And now the angst:

    – BigBandLeader has not called to confirm tomorrow night. I have a NV that says he’s just going to blow me off. Do I text him to confirm? At what point? I have my wine class tomorrow night (“Taste Like a Sommelier” – which begs the question, what does a sommelier taste like? Salty? Ha! I kill me!)….and I’ll need to bring stuff to change into and to clean up with before I meet him. I have this awful feeling that I am going to bring all this stuff along so I can be super-cute for him, and he won’t have confirmed!!!

    Have any of the rest of you had this feeling before??? You’re shaving your legs in the shower or doing your hair, and you just KNOW he’s not gonna show?? I can recall three other times when I had that sinking sense that I was being stood up, and I was. Maybe I MADE it so by giving it energy. Hmmm…

    Well, even if he does not confirm, I will bring my get-pretty things, flirt like a crazy woman at the wine class, and then go find something to do where I can look fabulous for strangers!

    Yay me INDEED!

  115.  #115Laughing Goddess on May 12, 2011 at 2:18 pm

    110: Corin says:

    RE: 104.
    I don’t believe there is any such thing as ‘negative feelings’, only those we are more comfortable in embracing and those we are less so, and therefore have developed unhealthy ways of dealing with.

    Thursday, 12 May 2011 @ 2:07pm

    Thanks for sharing that. It’s got me thinking.

    I do see your point.

    It’s along the same lines as Rori suggesting that we love our anger, for example.

    And that has worked for me.

    At the same time, I see my “negative feelings” (for lack of a better word) as an indicator that I am thinking something that my inner wisdom knows isn’t true.

    I can flip whatever thoughts I am thinking and feeling good is my indicator that I am on the right track with my thoughts.

    I can see how these two beliefs could work together.

    As in, I can embrace my anger and really feel it as a way to get in touch with the guidance they provide and I can also choose to let it go when I am able to move to a better feeling.

    But maybe we have to be able to embrace it first before releasing….

  116.  #116Boomer on May 12, 2011 at 2:19 pm

    OK,I feel like a turd for writing all about myself after reading Brenda’s lovely post.

    Brenda, you are so full of compassion and wisdom. I am in awe.

    Kait–listen to her, baby girl!

  117.  #117Daria on May 12, 2011 at 2:24 pm

    That did not feel good to read.

    I felt like I got punched in the stomach reading that.

  118.  #118Daria on May 12, 2011 at 2:26 pm

    Yay to me for finding the feeling under the anger. First time ever.

    Woo hoo.

    Arms were feeling tingly like punching.

    Self defense.

    Unraveling feelings works.

    Big breath.

    Thank you shoulder you can relax.

    Shoulder feels ready to right hook somebody.


    Thank you shoulder.

    I feel protected.

    You can relax now shoulder, thank you.

  119.  #119DE on May 12, 2011 at 2:33 pm

    Brenda #113:

    I felt tearful reading it and felt deeply inspired…Thank you…

    Warm hugs,

  120.  #120Corin on May 12, 2011 at 2:35 pm

    Yes that’s similar to what I believe. I worry that labelling a feeling ‘negative’ or ‘bad’ can encourage stuffing or pushing away and avoiding the feeling. Resistance to letting them flow. Feelings are a core part of ourselves and so cannot be bad or negative in my opinion. They are simply our truth.

  121.  #121Daria on May 12, 2011 at 2:36 pm

    This ‘had to put him down’ thing triggers ne so much!


    Other incidents in life remind me of this.

    Feel angry at What I ‘see’ in my mind about this.

    Feel powerless and judgemental.

    Feel small and powerless.

    Feel sad pouty.

    Feel anger.

    Feel blaming.


    Feel crying.

  122.  #122Corin on May 12, 2011 at 2:39 pm

    I feel triggered when I see people write ‘that felt bad’ and feel an urge to ask them to explore the actual feeling- fear, frustration, anxiety etc. ‘Bad’ is not a feeling in my view, more a thought, a judgement. I guess I feel anxious, worried when they write ‘bad’ as though I believe some resistance and judgement of themself or others is going on.

  123.  #123Brenda on May 12, 2011 at 2:41 pm


    RE: #116 – Thank you for the rich compliment! And congratulations on your weight loss!

  124.  #124Brenda on May 12, 2011 at 2:45 pm


    Thank you, and you’re welcome!

  125.  #125Laughing Goddess on May 12, 2011 at 2:56 pm

    122: Corin says:

    I feel triggered when I see people write ‘that felt bad’ and feel an urge to ask them to explore the actual feeling- fear, frustration, anxiety etc. ‘Bad’ is not a feeling in my view, more a thought, a judgement. I guess I feel anxious, worried when they write ‘bad’ as though I believe some resistance and judgement of themself or others is going on.

    Thursday, 12 May 2011 @ 2:39pm

    Ya, I hear you on that.

    I’m feeling a bit perplexed because I totally get what you are saying and agree.

    Judgment as a concept has been in the forefront of my experience lately. I’ve been feeling understanding that when we start to label things as good or bad, we get ourselves in a bind because everything is neutral until we place meaning on it.

    At the same time, we do have feelings that either feel good or feel bad and I do believe that this is important feedback for us.

    I’m trying to make sense of this in my head. 🙂

  126.  #126Corin on May 12, 2011 at 3:09 pm


    I agree. My perspective is that maybe the feedback is a signal of how well or not well we have learnt to cope with those feelings or what judgments we have internalised about them rather than about the actual feelings themselves. It’s a chance to heal these judgements. I prefer a healthy- unhealthy or well- unwell continuum to good- bad as it feels less black and white and offers more room for love acceptance. Maybe one day with less judgement we will be able to feel fear for example and really enjoy it for the energy and brink of excitement that it brings.

  127.  #127Daria on May 12, 2011 at 3:25 pm

    Maybe good and bad are not judgements in this case but actual in the body feelings that are named by me good and bad

    I enjoy saying I feel good

    Hmm it could be my heart feels warm

    I feel pleasure I feel pain

  128.  #128Turquoise3 on May 12, 2011 at 3:35 pm

    Hi Sirens,

    Kaitlyn, I hate to hear you in so much pain. My suggestion would be to go someplace private where you can SCREAM. I mean really SCREAM until you don’t feel like screaming anymore. I don’t think you mean the words you are saying, but trying to talk through the anger and pain, comes out in shocking statements. If you could just scream it out, might make you feel better. I think you are right to focus on yourself and your career right now, rather than finding a man. If you could get to your best self, or even just non-hating yourself self, you’ll feel better whether there is a man in your life or not. The bff sounds like an ass, but I do understand sometimes we don’t have a choice of who is in our professional lives. I’d call him something other than BFF though. BFF’s love and care for us, not berate and harm us.

  129.  #129Turquoise3 on May 12, 2011 at 3:36 pm

    Brenda, thank you for sharing the deer story. You remind me a lot of my sister, and she’s finally taking steps toward new ground also. It’s good to see her happy again. 🙂 I’m so happy for you. That was so insightful.

  130.  #130Brenda on May 12, 2011 at 3:43 pm

    Thanks, Turquoise! Also, I like to go in nature and scream and cry, too. Once I made the mistake of screaming by my mailbox when I didn’t get a letter from my boyfriend one too many times. Someone heard me and called the police. It was so mortifying when they came to my door, asking if anyone was hurt.

    Yeah, I was hurt all right, the story of my life. No more.

  131.  #131Turquoise3 on May 12, 2011 at 3:46 pm

    I made a realization today too… something that has been nagging me for awhile.

    I am a crumb taker. Some people are addicts, I am an addict to taking less than I deserve in relationships.

    I stay long past when I should leave a relationship.

    I am often the one left, because after giving me crumbs for so long, and my gladly accepting them, men walk away.

    I tell myself I’m understanding of their busy lives and responsibilities. I’m not pushing for more when they aren’t ready. I’m patient. I wait. I don’t rock the boat. Something is better than nothing. I am done with that crap.

    I ended it with Tom tonight. It’s probably not the Rori way…. but I feel ok about it.

    I texted him earlier today to see if he’d be in town this weekend. He wrote back no, he’s going to Erie. His ex and their dogs live in Erie. When I stopped hearing from him last time, he’d gone to Erie for a friend’s birthday. So, I asked if they were trying to work things out. He said they are just friends, which, he’s told me from the beginning. I wrote back ok, just not often I have a whole weekend to myself. Would have been nice to see you. No reply. So, I thought about it for awhile, and decided that if he’d rather go see his dogs, from a relationship that ended years ago, than spend time with me… that is crumbs. They are dogs. I know we love our pets, but come on!

    So, I waited awhile and then wrote:

    Hey, been thinking a lot about this, and this isn’t going to be enough for me. I like being with you, just want more of a relationship. Maybe we can be friends.

    He wrote back, I understand.

    I waited a little bit, thought some more and said, This just feels like friends with benefits now, and that feels bad. You just disappeared on me before, that says a lot to me about how you feel.

    No response.

    So, not that I wrote it on here, I’m deleting all the texts from my phone and putting it behind me. THat probably sounds blaming or negative, I probably didn’t do the feeling messages right…. but this is new territory for me. I’m always the one who stays, who understands… I can’t do that anymore.

    If he were the one, then spending time with me would be a priority. It wouldn’t be texting me the day of, asking if I want to get together. He’s a nice guy, the chemistry was great.. but is a few hours of pleasure a few times a month worth keeping myself in a crumb taking situation? I think not. I may get lonely, I know I’ll miss the sex, but I need a step up man in my life, or I’ll be content to spend time with friends, meeting new men who may be my step up guy… and working on myself. I know I’ll miss him, but that is ok. This just isn’t enough for me. I deserve more.

  132.  #132Lucy on May 12, 2011 at 3:52 pm

    If I had harbored any doubt, I now know for certain this thing about myself: I need my man to be at least as smart as I am. Emotionally, I need his intellectual support. I feel glad to have confirmed this.

  133.  #133Mel on May 12, 2011 at 3:52 pm

    Hugs Turquoise! Sounds like you took a stand for what you know will bring you happiness in the long term. 🙂

  134.  #134Lucy on May 12, 2011 at 3:55 pm

    I am way behind on reading comments… busy week with my parents coming and daughter’s graduation Saturday… sending love to you all and looking forward to catching up with you later. <3 Lucy

  135.  #135Turquoise3 on May 12, 2011 at 3:57 pm

    Thanks Mel. Taking the girls out to dinner now, they’ll be with their dad all weekend. This weeking will only be full of things that feel really good to me. I’m happy.

  136.  #136Elizabeth on May 12, 2011 at 4:08 pm

    113. Brenda


    Just Beautiful.


  137.  #137Elizabeth on May 12, 2011 at 4:08 pm

    Good on ya, Turquoise 3!!!


  138.  #138Elizabeth on May 12, 2011 at 4:15 pm

    LG, Corin
    am enjoying your convo

    “Maybe one day with less judgement we will be able to feel fear for example and really enjoy it for the energy and brink of excitement that it brings.”

    yes! opening up and receiving all the gifts that ANY feeling brings instead of choosing limitation, and labeling them negative/positive as in undesirable and desirable.


  139.  #139Jeannette on May 12, 2011 at 4:24 pm

    I am feeling a little blue. I asked Steve if I could come by and clean house because he’s very tired and his brother is a lot of work with his illness. Anyway, I went to his house but he asked me after an hour how long I can stay? I sensed he needed to do some things. He said he was going to boil some potatoes and go out and get the rest of their dinner. So about 1/2 hour later I just said, ” I probably better be going now.” I get the feeling that he didn’t want me to stay long again. He’s done this before. Sort of act like his brother wants me out of there…..or does Steve?

  140.  #140AmazingMe on May 12, 2011 at 5:02 pm

    Brenda that story is quite a tear jerker for me, I am so sympathetic and being a nurse is what I was made for but empathy is the road they ask you to take. I feel so much feeling for anything or anyone that are in undeserved pain or agony. It breaks my heart so I love what you did, amazing, yes I will stop and move the turtle off the road before someone runs over it 🙂 You know amongst all things in life to know you have that love and compassion to bless another being with is an amazing gift….

  141.  #141Femininewoman on May 12, 2011 at 5:18 pm

    Aaaaawwww Jeannette. How are you otherwise?

  142.  #142Dorothea on May 12, 2011 at 5:27 pm


  143.  #143Femininewoman on May 12, 2011 at 5:27 pm

    Turquoise3 I felt an emptiness reading that, kind of like fear. I understand your choice and wish that your dreams come true.

  144.  #144Laughing Goddess on May 12, 2011 at 5:28 pm

    Elizabeth: I am enjoying the conversation too.

    And I love the quote you posted too yet I feel incomplete with it.

    For me, there is more to the story.

    For example, BK says if we feel bad 🙂 about something it means the thought is untrue. She says to question our stressful thoughts.

    But now as I type that I feel a greater understanding.

    “Maybe one day with less judgement we will be able to feel fear for example and really enjoy it for the energy and brink of excitement that it brings.”

    I see a BK or AH turnaround within this statement itself.

    It’s basically changing a thought

    “fear feels bad”


    “fear feels great…like excitement.”

    which is a perfect example of what I was saying that how we feel is guidance for if we are in alignment with something.

    Ok, my mind is spinning and I feel uncertain if I am making much sense at this point. But I get it within myself and that feels expanding and like a little breakthru. Feels cohesive.

  145.  #145Laughing Goddess on May 12, 2011 at 5:33 pm

    I love exploring this! Thanks to all participating!

  146.  #146Dorothea on May 12, 2011 at 5:39 pm

    I don’t see the underpinnings of Rori’s advice to be “boys will be boys” at ALL. I see it more as “he better treat you perfectly,” and then she provides us with tools to know the difference and not sabotage his ability or desire to treat you perfectly (when he is indeed equipped for that). Or the tools to inform a man on how we expect to be treated too!

  147.  #147Femininewoman on May 12, 2011 at 5:40 pm

    RE 112 Thank you Jacqueline for those heartfelt words . It is really understanding of the situation I have lived with and am living with. Rori has helped me to realize that they are doing the best they know how so I try to be philosophical about the situation. I know now that it is the reason I have been unconsciously afraid of intimacy but I am babystepping my way out of it. Acknowledging what it was though feels really scary and intimidating.

  148.  #148Renee on May 12, 2011 at 5:42 pm

    Hi Rori,

    This was a nice article. I can relate to the feeling of a brick being lodged in my belly!

    However, getting a man to open up should not be the goal. Since he is a man! That can come later.

    It’s not advice I’d give, since this is still coming from the perspective of “need”.

  149.  #149Dorothea on May 12, 2011 at 5:44 pm

    turquoise, i meant you rock from what i read earlier about you dumping that guy. i havent read all the way down tho..

  150.  #150Femininewoman on May 12, 2011 at 5:44 pm

    Brenda that story really tugged at my heart. Thanks for sharing.

  151.  #151Jeannette on May 12, 2011 at 5:44 pm

    Femininewoman, like I said, I’m a little blue tonight. Steve called me and didn’t even thank me for coming by and cleaning up the house some……maybe, I’ll just stop volunteering until he misses me more. Some disfunction around his family, I can see…nothing I can do anything about though. I’m sort of just giving up I guess, can’t see any answers here. Even if Rick dies, which he will, Steve and I don’t have a solid do-able game plan. I need some joy in my life.

  152.  #152Dorothea on May 12, 2011 at 5:46 pm

    This is my 11th day without a cigarette, and my hair smells amazing:)

  153.  #153RiverGirl on May 12, 2011 at 5:52 pm

    Turquoise @ 128

    That is such a great suggestion, “to go someplace private where you can SCREAM. I mean really SCREAM until you don’t feel like screaming anymore”.

    There was a time in my life (13 yrs ago?) when I had come back to the family business after doing my own thing for a long time. My parents were so supportive and wanted me there but my brother was very resentful and openly hostile and nasty towards me. I’m sure it was mostly about him feeling jealous, thinking that if my father was listening to my point of view, it meant that his was being rejected. He became so angry whenever I spoke up that I mostly just kept quiet whenever he was around. I was living with my parents at the time and they knew some of what was going on but I didn’t want them dragged into the muck or feeling like they had to take sides so I just kept quiet.

    It got too much for me, I was crying myself to sleep at night. One night I just got in the car and drove to a really quiet road and stopped and just started SCREAMING! I yelled every abusive word I knew at my brother. I screamed and yelled and cried and banged on the steering wheel. I had a tantrum.

    I think that night flipped a switch for me, I stopped taking the things he said to me and behind my back personally. I realised it was his stuff. I just didn’t care anymore.

    We get along ok these days and have our own separate businesses. There is no fighting and we are quite friendly. He apologised for some of his treatment of me and I accepted that but I don’t think we will ever be close, the trust is gone.

  154.  #154Dorothea on May 12, 2011 at 6:00 pm

    i feel silly…there wasn’t a whole lot to scroll down through. feeling embarrassed of my clarification to turquoise about what i meant when i said she rocks.


  155.  #155Femininewoman on May 12, 2011 at 6:04 pm

    Jeannette sounds like a plan to me. What brings you joy? Have you ever explored that?

  156.  #156Turquoise3 on May 12, 2011 at 6:12 pm

    Thanks Dorothea 🙂 I appreciate that!

    Rivergirl…. I heard it on the radio one time, about how theraputic it is to scream, yet most of us can’t find that “voice” and let it go…. so while I was driving, I just tried it. It was a lot harder than I thought to force out a scream. I usually cry a lot, but that can take days to release what I’m feeling. BUT, sometimes a really good scream makes me feel better instantly. Sometimes, it even makes me start laughing. I’m sure I look like a crazy person… but it makes me feel better!

    FW, I’m not afraid, but I know it’s not going to be an overnight change. I’ve accepted crumbs from the men in my life for a very long time. I’m a little sad that Tom didn’t say, “No, I want you in my life. Please give me a chance to prove it!” But I’m ok that he didn’t.

    I am really done trying to make something into something. If the right guy shows up for me, things will work out. It has in the past. Maybe they weren’t my forever guy, but they were what I needed at the time. I’m more ready now for something long term. Am I 100% ready? No, I feel too attached to my ex. I need to work through that.

    In the meantime, I’m excited to build a friendship with Mike. No one has ever made me laugh the way he did that night. If we can make a friendship, that would feel amazing to have that in my life. I’ve never tried to be friends with a guy first… so maybe it is a better route to go? No expectations though. I’m just excited to try being friends with a guy.


  157.  #157Turquoise3 on May 12, 2011 at 6:15 pm

    Dorothea… you rock!!!! 11 days???? That is awesome!!! 🙂 Good for you!!! Can’t wait to hear when you say it’s been 15, then 30 and on and on.

    I’m counting calories, drinking water and starting to exercise. Getting healthy is the siren thing to do it seems 🙂

    We are having one hell of a storm here in Pittsburgh. The girls and I got DRENCHED coming out of Olive Garden. By the way, my waiter didn’t charge me for the girls’ soup and salads… I gave him a big tip 🙂

  158.  #158Femininewoman on May 12, 2011 at 6:16 pm

    Turquoise3 now I know you rock. You seem to be consciously making choices with a plan in mind. I was tempted to say before that Tom might eventually feel challenged and try to step up. Now I feel confident that he will try somehow, your vibe is really coming through.

  159.  #159Lily T. on May 12, 2011 at 6:26 pm

    How do you feel about seeing someone who has training, experience, licensing as a mental health professional? Have you? My gut feelings, as well as my thoughts are that you, at this time, would benefit from someone with higher education in psychology and clinical experience, in addition to an internet support group.

    What do you think?

  160.  #160Turquoise3 on May 12, 2011 at 6:29 pm

    Thanks FW 🙂 I appreciate that. It would be nice if he did…. but I’m just going to keep moving forward with my life and see what happens.

    I really thought he could have been the one, which is why I reached out again…. but he’s just not stepping up enough, and I want more than what he’s giving me right now. It feels good to stick up for myself! 🙂

  161.  #161Jeannette on May 12, 2011 at 6:41 pm

    Femininewoman, I guess I’ll have to try and figure that one out…..I know I like being with someone. I hate being alone. Done it now for 11 years and I’m just hating more with ea passing day. I like to do things for and with someone. Like shopping, working, playing….I don’t like doing any of it alone. Seriously! Some people are just more companionship oriented then others.

  162.  #162Femininewoman on May 12, 2011 at 6:57 pm

    Jeannete I am not sure about that. I believe we are all social beings but there has got to be other things that bring you joy. I like children so I try to spend time with them. Today for instance while driving there was a dad with his two boys and it really lit me up to see the boys walking, holding hands and swinging the outside hand in sync. I also like roller blading and bowling so sometimes I go out alone and join others. I love the sound of water so sometimes I go sit on the beach and read a book when the weather is good. I hope I don’t come across as judgemental but I would look at my beliefs about companionship if I was you. It seems a bit codependent.

  163.  #163Femininewoman on May 12, 2011 at 6:58 pm

    RE 160 Good for you

  164.  #164Dorothea on May 12, 2011 at 7:00 pm

    I am feeling anxious. i still haven’t texted my guy back. he was being nice but i just wanted space. i didn’t want to respond until i felt clear.

    but then i think how i did not respond to him saying something that would ordinarily be the right thing (and i crave that sort of stuff from him!)…and that must make him feel defeated and uninterested in me. That terrifies me and leaves me grasping for the right way to honor my feelings and not make myself feel worse or more anxious yet somehow keeps him interested. And right now there is no right way.

    And I am scared of being abandoned!

    I want to get clear on how i’m feeling tho before i utter a peep. i need some time and space to get a hold on how much of my interaction with him and word choice is actually driven by my fear of abandonment, before i say even a single word more.

    i’m scared:(

  165.  #165Femininewoman on May 12, 2011 at 7:04 pm

    Could it be withdrawal symptoms.

  166.  #166Jeannette on May 12, 2011 at 7:05 pm

    Yes, I like to look at books in the book store, enjoy reading a good book, and I do those things. I don’t mind being alone at all. I just enjoy being and sharing more I guess. I think it’s basically who I am. Also, it’s very different being alone when I was married 27 years and raising 5 children. Always someone around. Now, it’s quiet a lot when I’m not at work. I was also raised in a large family. Alone time is good for me…..but I still enjoy being with someone more. Just me.

  167.  #167Femininewoman on May 12, 2011 at 7:12 pm

    I know Jeannette but it could end up causing you to be terrified of being alone. It would be awesome if you could embrace your aloneness and build a story about what you do with your me time.

  168.  #168Dorothea on May 12, 2011 at 7:14 pm

    Right now in my imagination I see me and him realizing there is a reason we are each there in unfulfilling romantic situation that, without some serious work on ourselves, is virtually locked into being perpetually unfulfilling.

    you know…as in…if i’m here because of my own twisted tendencies…then he probably is too. this has gone on too long to be coincidence. we both wanted things to be better and talked about what we would do for that purpose…but it never got off the ground. we made it crash and burn every time. we had the choice and we made it. I say we because even when it was technically his doing, i still went along for the ride. And vice versa. There are a number of things you can do to pull the ride over, ranging from walking away to the love and compassion treatment, but we went for a ride instead. both of us. individually.

    I don’t know how I would ever tell him that. Maybe he’ll realize it on his own.

    and then when we realize this, he of course enthusiastically complies with my desire to take it very slow and start over as much as possible, and we both grow individually to address the damage we inflict as a pattern in our love lives…

    of course the whole time he still secretly wants to marry me and thinks i’m the greatest thing ever, but never brings it up so i don’t feel uncomfortable….

    and we both become amazing powerful people on the inside and reunite in exclusivity and marriage and are all romantic like ‘we fixed ourselves for each other.’

    ok my fantasy is a little ridiculous, i know, lol.

    if i give dating another shot with this guy, i am only responsible for working on me, and going with how i feel and not holding him responsible for when i don’t like something yet i tolerate it or continue to come back for more.

    but i like my little hopeful and unrealistic one-day-my-prince-will-come fantasy:)

  169.  #169Soul Sista on May 12, 2011 at 7:19 pm

    My date tonight canceled tonight for the 2nd time in a row! LOL…he texted me at 2:30 but i never saw it so i was sitting there waiting for him and checked my texts and voila!

    i texted him back and said “i’m not interested in meeting you. a phone call would have been in order to make sure i got the message.” and even then i would have not been interested in ever meeting him. what an awful date it probably would have been if he had made it…so immature! i also blocked his texts and blocked him on POF.

    i love the saying “Rejection is god’s protection.”

    so now i’m sitting at home eating ice cream and relishing in my Course…

    San Francisco here I come….

  170.  #170Lilybelle on May 12, 2011 at 7:25 pm

    113: Boomer~ I so love you, girl! You take your rock star self right on out after the wine drinking, I mean, class and show your gorgeous self off.

    And, yes. Been in the shower, shaving legs, getting gorgeous for hideandgoseekguy, and having that feeling he wasn’t going to show up. I was right. Feels awful! The next time I felt that way…yes there was a next time, I stopped and sat on the couch with a bottle of wine..He didn’t show up. I got drunk. lol 🙂


  171.  #171Dorothea on May 12, 2011 at 7:28 pm

    i feel so anxious and i am trying to work up the courage to text him. i feel scared. i don’t want to leave him hanging. i could tell him that i will eventually talk to him. or that it wasn’t what he said that made me go silent, it actually felt really nice to read.

    i just had to take space and stop trying to communicate about this before i could get clear on what i was feeling………..i thought i would self destruct if i uttered another word to him. i didn’t want that. so i said nothing.

    urgh, have i screwed up?

  172.  #172Lilybelle on May 12, 2011 at 7:35 pm


    What a wonderful, beautiful, heartfelt post you wrote to our Kaitlyn.. There is so much there, I need to read it again.

    Graceful and giving.


  173.  #173Jeannette on May 12, 2011 at 7:35 pm

    Femininewoman, I do embrace my alone time. I want you to understand that. However, I like doing things with others as well. If I were terrified of being alone…..I would have run off with the first guy who asked me to marry him, and I didn’t.

  174.  #174Lilybelle on May 12, 2011 at 7:45 pm


    Damn, I hope you are okay this evening. I am thinking about you, hugging you from here and hoping that you are pulling yourself up from the depths of hell. You get to feel however you feel, I just hope that you can and have, found a way to turn it around and see yourself the way you really are, not the way your NV’s are telling you, you are. And, I hope that you have given your bff a swift kick in his ass. I don’t like how he is treating you either.

    Girl, walk the walk, you know it, you know how to do it. It’s still inside of you. Just do it, once step at a time. Just one step…at. a. time. And shut down even just ONE NV at a time. Just one…and then the next day, another one and another step.


    I am cheering for you, CHEERING for you. *pom poms out..old cheerleader uniform on and jumping up and down in my living room…right in front of the window***

    Shoot me an email.


  175.  #175Femininewoman on May 12, 2011 at 7:45 pm

    RE 173 I understand Jeannette. I also understand doing things with others because that’s what
    we like.

  176.  #176Dorothea on May 12, 2011 at 7:54 pm

    “i feel uncomfortable having left you hanging on your last text. it wasn’t what you said that made me go silent, it actually felt really nice to read. i am feeling desperate for space and it felt bad that i wasn’t giving myself that by texting back and forth so i just kinda…clammed up.”

    this is what i want to say i think

  177.  #177Elizabeth on May 12, 2011 at 7:55 pm

    Hi LG,
    you wrote:
    “It’s basically changing a thought

    “fear feels bad”


    “fear feels great…like excitement.”

    which is a perfect example of what I was saying that how we feel is guidance for if we are in alignment with something.”


    Yes, we seem to be going for a

    “However it is, is fine with me” attitude.

    So if ‘what is’, however it is, isn’t fine with me, then i’m out of alignment.


  178.  #178Dorothea on May 12, 2011 at 8:01 pm

    i don’t like clammed up. that sounds like i am making myself out to be weirdo or wrong. i just stopped. plain and simple.

    “i feel uncomfortable having left you hanging on your last text. it wasn’t what you said that made me go silent, it actually felt really nice to read. i was feeling desperate for space and it felt bad that i wasn’t giving myself that by texting back and forth so i just stopped.”

    You know, he stopped too, even though i’m sure it’s been really uncomfortable at times and he probably thinks he is going to explode. He actually has given me the space. yay

    i really appreciate someone letting me be healthy and feel okay, rather than hound me because THEY feel uncomfortable and want me to make them feel comfortable again. to me that is respectful. that is what respect is all about and i haven’t gotten a lot of that from any guy (and when they offered it i wouldn’t take it cuz i’ve been on a messed up pattern for a while)

    ohh, i feel so much better.

  179.  #179Dorothea on May 12, 2011 at 8:04 pm

    ok i got it figured out what to say. just had to get really clear on what the truth is here. here goes.

  180.  #180sophie on May 12, 2011 at 8:04 pm

    your post came perfect timing.

    I had been dating this guy for about 3 months, and last Sun I saw his FB status changed to in a relationship with some gal, so I called next day.
    He said they are friends, and when I asked what are we, he said bf/gfs…then he had to rush off and said will call me later.

    That same night his status changed to just in a relationship and gals’ name removed and to single.
    But the issue is he hasn’t return any of the calls and even I called him he always has various reason to say call me back but never did.

    I guess it is not the same case as your post above, he really is ignoring me.

    I feel disappointed and hurt and it had been few days now.

    Why man can behaved so bad …

    appreciate some divas insight to help me move on.


  181.  #181Dorothea on May 12, 2011 at 8:10 pm

    Wait, what if he doesn’t even expect me to text him back?
    he didn’t ask me a question. he just said what his suggestion was but that he doesn’t want to push me away any further so that’s why he is really tryin to give me space.
    maybe that was that. end of discussion.

    maybe he’s not sitting there thinking ‘i hate dorothea for not texting back, what a waste of a woman’

    ack i am confused. thinking about forgetting about it and just going to bed, but then tomorrow it will have been THREE days since i didn’t say anything about his suggestion to “hug me and let me feel safe around him as a good start”

    i am scared if i dont acknowledge what an awesome suggestion that is, i’ll never get it.

    i’m scared if i don’t acknowledge that he is making good moves here, that he’ll give up entirely.

    I just need my space though! i am making myself crazy over this! now i have worked myself up into tears.

    i am really grateful to be processing this stuff though. even though it’s really hard and really scary.

  182.  #182boomer on May 12, 2011 at 8:45 pm

    So…no call from bigbandleader. I am not inclined to see him even if he calls tomorrow with plans. Annie Clyde suggests texting asking what the plans are, but that makes me feel desperate and angry. A step up man will confirm with a woman he is excited about seeing. A clueless man about a fourth date is probably not going to be a step up man come the 100th date.

    Should I give him until tomorrow? When he asked me out Tuesday, he left it at “I’ll call to confirm time and place.” I feel…angry. And hurt.

  183.  #183Queenbee on May 12, 2011 at 8:49 pm

    I’ve got to stop leaning forward with my thoughts.

    Are we allowed to fantasize about men we are into?

    What if I feel like thinking about him in a self-pleasuring session, is this leaning forward?

    I find that I get to a point in my thoughts where I’m fighting off NVs.

    Then I feel shame for wanting what I want.

    This feels like a brick in my stomach, dryness and tightness in my throat and I feel small and pathetic.

    I feel sad that I can feel ‘pathetic’ about myself.

    That feels pathetic…

    oh, I feel sad…

    I ate chocolate and it was yummy! 🙂

    What do you think, Sirens?


  184.  #184Sarah on May 12, 2011 at 9:11 pm

    Hi Ladies!

    Small development I need advice on. I posted before about this divorced guy I was dating. He had been divorced for a year – he chased me for 3 months then made everything official but a few weeks later he had this complete freak out / 180. Ever since his ex wife posted back all their wedding photos – from that point on everything spiralled out of control over the next two months.

    He said things like he doesn’t know if he ever wants to marry again, he said he is scared of making another mistake, he started comparing me to her – and if I ever did anything similar to her he would lash out /run a mile. I started to see moody/erratic/hot and cold push and pull behaviour. He started going out alot without me.

    He ended it but then would change his mind, then end it and then change his mind. It was finally over for good at the end of February. It has been a very frustrating and heartbreaking experience. He found all these new friends and suddenly has a fun group of ppl he goes out with every Friday night and has discovered this whole new world that he missed out on in his 20s whilst being married.

    Even though I want him back more than anything, I have of course been multi dating, going out, having a great time, getting lots of attention. However, in the last two weeks theres been a major shift – we have spent 4 nights together, had alot of long phone calls till 1am over the last month – and it actually feels like we are in a relationship again.

    It’s been great because we are getting to do all the things I feel like we missed out on in our short lived rel. We have been having a great time together, he constantly compliments me, hugs me, holds my hand, kisses me, texts me to say he had a great time. I have tried to change the way I deal with things (with Roris tips), I have tried to work on having a better connection/have more empathy (which he thinks we didn’t have enough of) I am alot more intimate/affectionate (for a while I used to push him away/hate kissing). I am able to just ‘be myself’ instead of constantly feeling on edge that things are spiralling out of control and about to end 0 there is no pressure now. When I am with him it just feels SO RIGHT. I leave feeling like I’m on top of the world.

    As time and healing goes on re: his divorce – he seems like he is slowly starting to have a less negative outlook on marriage etc.

    He knows I am dating other ppl so yesterday he brought up “US” and our new found situation.

    He said that if I feel that he is ‘stopping me’ from getting closer or gettting to know these other guys and if spending time with him is impeding finding someone else then we shouldn’t be hanging out – and that it was just something that I should think about. He then asked what would happen once I ‘find someone’ or once HE finds someone ie/ am I just going to suddenly stop talking to him and seeing him?

    So it sounded as if he doesn’t have a care in the world that I am dating other ppl or could lose me soon…………….well obviously he is the one that ended it!

    It sounds like he is perfectly happy to see me whenever I want to see him; he is always happy to talk for hours on the phone and always responds to my msgs right away. He is having all the joys of a relationship without the commitment – however that works right now because I am also trying to find myself the best guy of the lot.

    I admit I am not letting him ‘chase me’ right now and that needs to change asap. BUT I have managed to get things in a really good happy place which creates a good time to pull back and start letting him chase me.

    So. What to do.

    Based on his ambivilance and comments yesterday –

    Should I keep him in the “circular dating” group, now that its on the ‘up’ – stop chasing and play hard to get, make him start to worry and feel what its like to possibly be losing me.


    Just nix this guy altogether.

  185.  #185snow angel on May 12, 2011 at 9:18 pm

    I do this all the time! drive myself crazy with negative thoughts and then he turns to me and says ‘ i love you’….. wow, how silly of me.
    so along with Rori’s suggestion of imagining him thinking about something other then me….
    what about also thinking: hey, what if he was thinking some really awesome thoughts about me, or us or some really sexy thoughts about me right now….
    that has also happened to me… my man goes quiet, and i freak out, but i stopped myself… be in the moment and let myself melt, i think of how wonderfully warm i felt next to him and i focused on my heart opening and then he says ‘ just thinking about how we can be with each other more’…
    Sirens, it is like magic!
    my method, when i am feeling terrified. is to stop, and imagine my self at the end of a football field with so much space in front of me, that he can step into, so much warm, loving space that he can walk into and feel safe. i am at the end of this field with my chest zipped open and my heart huge and beating right there.
    it works every time!

  186.  #186Sarah on May 12, 2011 at 9:23 pm

    Snow angel – good ideas. I can get so anxious when I haven’t heard from the ex all day – then I’ll email him or text him and he pretty much always responds within the hour.

    It always turns out he’s been in court all day and then I think how stupid I was to think that he would even have time or the thought to contact me when all that is going on around him.

    Whenever I get a case of anxiety again I’m going to start imagine him being surrounded by ppl in a court room – talking to a judge and believe he will msg me when its all over.

  187.  #187Jacqueline on May 12, 2011 at 9:29 pm

    Snow angel, I love your name!

    Sarah and Sophie – I know you’ll get lots of great adivce and help here. I think both of those situations sound painful, they would be to me. Sarah, that feels so goshawful harsh to me. I’d want to …..just aaargh, how can a man be intimate and like pushing us into someone else’s arms?!! I’m indignant!

    Queenbee – I don’t focus too much on leaning back, it results in me feeling inauthentic if I do…and for pete’s sake- or yours, lol – imagine anything you wanna imagine!! Absolutely! You’re da bomb NOT pathetic. Put them voices down the toilet and flush!

    Boomer – it sux to give a person we don’t even know if we like a second chance and they blow it huh? Confirming on the day of is not cool. Especially after the previous. I hope someone much much better shows up by Sat. 4 a.m.!!!! xoxo

    Dorothea, hope you feel better and transform this for yourself. I always want to answer because I’d want them to answer me – but you said you wanted space. So I don’t know. How about – It feels good to know you haven’t forgotten me and I’m better and will want to get that hug – or – want to talk soon?

    G’nite all you beautiful women!

  188.  #188Sarah on May 12, 2011 at 9:38 pm

    Thanks Jacquiline – yes it is perplexing how someone can appear to be so enamored, attracted and very obviously happy, intimate, affectionate, enjoying our time together – yet not have any intention of getting back together.

    I just think well what on earth more does he need?!!!

  189.  #189Brenda on May 12, 2011 at 9:49 pm


    RE: #131 – Sorry to hear your relationship ended. How long had you dated? I know you are operating on a series of stuff that led up to you feeling like a crumb taker. I just wanna say in his defense that losing a couple of dogs you love can be just as grievous as people dying, and even moreso. I had to lose some dogs 6 years ago, and I still feel so traumatic about it that I can barely talk about it.

  190.  #190Dorothea on May 12, 2011 at 9:53 pm

    i have been way overanalyzing this because i feel scared to be abandoned. i should not be giving myself grief for not texting a man for a couple of days. if we weren’t just dating then it would feel important to respond and not make it too easy for my partner to fret that i am going to abandon THEM.

    fear of abandonment is a powerful thing. it can run your mind and make u act psycho.

  191.  #191Lucy on May 12, 2011 at 10:20 pm

    Wow I feel angry reading that EMK letter on the last thread. Tightness in my chest and churning in stomach. I don’t want to see men judged, especially so harshly! I feel sad reading this “advice.” And I also believe the judgments may quite possibly be way off – the new woman may be more right for him and someone he feels good committing to and staying with. I’ve seen that kind of thing happen. I feel better not blaming a man when it doesn’t work out.

  192.  #192janjune on May 12, 2011 at 10:51 pm

    are you just riffing or do you want feedback?

  193.  #193Dorothea on May 12, 2011 at 11:02 pm

    yes and yes, janjune:)

  194.  #194sophie on May 12, 2011 at 11:03 pm

    Thx Jacqueline

    I am looking forward to some advice …

  195.  #195Renee on May 12, 2011 at 11:14 pm

    Dorothea, why have you not texted him in 2 days in the first place?

  196.  #196janjune on May 12, 2011 at 11:21 pm

    my sister and i had fun on our trip out of town.
    we flirted with men a little. both were “feelin’ ” our attractedness to men and were enjoying seeing the other one feel confident. since we’d hung around together through middle school and high school going to dances and the pool to meet boys, it was fun to connect with her in that fun way again.
    we watched tv in bed with munchies.
    we drank champagne.
    we started arguing a little bit two or three times.
    she thinks i’m the little sister.
    and that she’s the boss. 🙂
    i handled it well.
    one time when she got just totally obnoxious about something, i just sat there in my power and made plans to just take care of myself (emotionally) from being treated like that by her in the future. she must have felt it because she started trying to make me comfortable and backtracked on the stance she had taken on an (unimportant) issue that was given so much importance that felt like competition… i don’t want to compete. i want to have open honest flowing free caring hearing listening conversatons.

  197.  #197janjune on May 12, 2011 at 11:24 pm

    she is veeerrrry good with the 5 second look! looooooooool!
    i feel giggly thinking about her being so comfortable and getting so many looks and smiles and nods and waves. the men looked happy! looooool!

  198.  #198janjune on May 12, 2011 at 11:29 pm

    i feel more comfortable with Open Heart.
    I still feel astonished and so totally astounded by how VERY sensitive men are to Open Heart.

  199.  #199islandgirl on May 12, 2011 at 11:32 pm

    Hi Dorothea 🙂
    I would text him but that is because I would want someone to answer me. 🙂
    I liked the text you were coming up with, but think you may be giving more information than needed. When I’m writing an important email to my sweetie, I usually go back and take out about half – trying to keep it simple.
    How about — I loved reading your suggestion. It would feel good to have you hug me, but I need a little more time for myself. It would feel wonderful if we could connect in xx days. What do you think?

    More importantly, what do you think? 😉

  200.  #200kaitlyn on May 12, 2011 at 11:58 pm

    My bff said if I talk back one more time, he will destroy all the tapes we’ve made so far. He says I don’t listen and obviously if I did, he wouldn’t have to show me how to turn on/off a piece of equipment 3 times. He says I bring this upon myself for not caring enough to pay attention. He says there’s no reason for him to communicate softly because if I cared enough about the project, the project would trump my feelings. He also says he didn’t garner the level of success he did by people being soft with him. He’s had photogs throw entire huge lights and powerpacks at him and that’s just the way the cookie crumbles. Today he took a mic out of my hand to put it on a tripod, sat it in it’s position, and went back to what he was doing. I ran second cam but it turns out, the mic he set up never got turned on. I got blamed for it for not being detail oriented; thus not caring about the project. Honestly, there’s just no way I can express myself even in the most gentle way to sooth him. Between this and Adam, I’m seriously considering gobbling down some Oxys. Not so I die. But so I’m dead inside.

  201.  #201janjune on May 13, 2011 at 12:05 am


    below i’ve written the things, (in my words, the way i’d express them) that i’ve heard in your riffs about this man…
    (i realize my word choices don’t match the tenor of your relationship with mr main cd)

    i can’t help wondering if it might not bring about a vibe shift for you two for you to share with him the things you’ve shared here.
    sounds like BOTH of you care about the other one. 🙂

    okay, so here’s my version:
    (an email, not a text):
    Dear Mr. mainCD man,
    I’ve felt your comfort and concern for me and it feels really good. I care very much for you and about you, too, I hope I’ve been able, at times, to express that to you.

    I feel scared to tell you I need more time, but have to.
    I am aware that my uncertainty is about me working through some old personal patterns, not about anything that you have or haven’t done. I know these steps are crucial for me if I’m ever going to have the kind of relationship I want to have with a man. I don’t feel like I know how to do that right now, but also know I’m in the process of learning how and want to continue.

    I want to ask you to wait for me to figure all this out but can’t and won’t. I truly don’t know how I will feel once I have worked through these issues as, at this point, I don‘t even know what the next step is going to be. I just know I’m committed to taking it once it shows up for me.

    So, I need time to be with me.

    If you want to tell me what you think about this, i feel very open to hearing you.

    hope this helps a little.

    goodnight zzzz zzz zz z z z

  202.  #202kaitlyn on May 13, 2011 at 12:13 am


    A guy I dated for 3 months back in 2007 who broke up with me by simply just no longer contacting me, just fb mes’d me asking, “So, should I bother to ask for a friend request?”

    Wtf? Do you have any idea how hard it was to resist chasing him for an explanation back then when he left me like he did? And why would he even think I’d entertain the thought of even giving him one written word or affirmation or rejection 4 years later?

  203.  #203Serena on May 13, 2011 at 12:22 am

    Sarah @184

    Hi , I am no expert Sarah , but as I read your story I started to feel a bit sick and definitely on eggshells.

    I had come to the conclusion that he is one lucky dude! And it sounds like you are just where I was once. And how do you FEEL about it really , going from commited Girlfriend or whatever “official ” means , to one of the gang?

    He has a hot and lovely woman friend who helped him get over his divorce. She is hot in EVERY department (I am guessing here) and soooooooo very understanding. After he dumped her OVER and OVER again , she was so understanding she just kept coming back for the few crumbs he was able to manage to hand over.

    Now he did feel a bit bad about this because in fact, she is a REALLY lovely person , and she does deserve better treatment but damn theres a pool full of hot ladies out there for a recently unmarried guy to dip in to ..well you know , he doesnt think it wise to have a commitment just now .. So to ease his conscience about using her he just mentioned a few little warning words ..just in case she was getting comfortable there….

    Sarah you are a Friend With Benefits, a F*** Buddy , a warm soft place to call in on and enjoy comfort and friendship and intimacy up to a point, BUT …I feel very afraid that you will be hurt again .

    I would love to see you STOP calling, STOP texting, stop all approaches to him.

    I would love to hear you say this ..when he gets curious or horny , and calls you.
    ” Hi , it feels good to hear from you. I have been so busy lately, time just flies by!
    No , sorry I am busy tonight (and tomorrow) . It feels better for me to be out dating widely.

    I am feeling awkward with our situation. It feels like FWB to me. This feels really bad . I dont want a casual realtionship .

    I guess I am looking for the right guy who makes me feel wonderful !And I want to feel secure and loved and special. I dont feel like that in a FWB relationship.

    Friends? Yes sure we will remain friends!!! ”

    Now this is colouring it with my feelings of course but its what I wish I had said in my own life instead of taking crumbs for literally years .

    The follow through is NO CONTACT for a good long time. You just gotta be too busy , all booked up as Rori says , so you honestly are not available for crumbs.If this man could step up he would have. Anything else is your wishful thinking.

    I suggest you look at baggagereclaim website too , it helped me a lot.

  204.  #204janjune on May 13, 2011 at 12:36 am

    ((hugs)) kaitlyn, i can hear the stress.

    sounds like a good time to start using feeling messges if you haven’t already.

    “I feel upset being told i dont care about our project. i am so into this project i hardly think of anything else…”
    “I feel so upset. i am very detail oriented and know i am, it interrupts my process of tracking what’s been done and what hasn’t when equipment is taken from my hand.”

    kaitlyn, feeling messages will not work on toxic people who don’t want to come out of their toxicity. but your bff will “hear” you if he is capable of and wants to leave it behind… sounds like it is causing him major problems with others… maybe he will hear you.

    are you finding ways here, on the rori blog, to do self care?
    sounds like you’re having second thoughts about the Oxy, is that a first step in the right direction?

    goodnight kaitlyn

  205.  #205Serena on May 13, 2011 at 12:40 am

    I have followed you for a while (lurking sorry) .
    I notice Sirens giving you lots of great suggestions to help you.

    It reads like you are getting very good at noticing what your triggers are , and you are reacting with messages about what you feel like doing ” feel like starving or taking pills or whatever ..these all being actions to numb something inside.

    I am wondering if when you hear yourself say these things about actions you are thinking about, you actually stop yourself and ask , “what is this feeling inside? What is the body sensation I am having that gives me a thought about taking an action to make it go away”
    Maybe a voice says ” I feel like being numb” , but that is a thought.
    So ask yourself ..what is the feeling I have in my body when i THINK “I want to be numb”.
    Keep trying to tie it down , give it a name, is it sadness? Is it hopelessness? Is it raw biting anger? Is it fear (eg of 40th Bday – I was scared of that one)?

    I beleive that Rori is right about feeling the feelings and naming them and noticing how they come and go . Learning to feel them fully and TOLERATE them , even the unpleasant ones is the beginning of getting better. I know lots of therapists deal with this stuff.

    I also recognise that part of you does not want to change this as the rest of you seems to want to change. . That part is warring with the rest. That part posts comments that I feel irritated reading. I welcome that part so I can practice feeling irritated and just tolerate the irritation with interest and NOT take an action such as replying with sarcasm as I would once have done.

    I feel authentic saying this. Thank you Kaitlyn.
    I love your strong vibe and I feel it getting stronger !

  206.  #206kaitlyn on May 13, 2011 at 12:42 am


    feeling messages. they don’t work on him. they only slightly work. it is all considered talking back to him. it is all considered making excuses. believe me, trying to be on top of everything and knowing you have to walk on eggshells does interrupt the creative process and make remembering more challenging. he just sees it all as me being weak and afraid of challenges.

    I’m also sick of him driving the car at top speed when he’s angry. I just pretend I’m not scared one day the brakes won’t be as strong and what if i’m a vegetable the rest of my life. It’s my fault i made him that angry.

  207.  #207Serena on May 13, 2011 at 12:55 am

    Queenbee , about your question about fantasy in “those” moments..

    Myself I got really cautious about that .
    Used to be that in my relationship that I now know to be imaginary , I fantasized in that way .I got my oxytocin to an image of him. My brain didnt know if he was really there or not , my hormones couldnt tell the difference. I was hormonally very addicted.

    I now am very careful not to do that so as not to become addicted to an “imaginary “lover who is not stepping up for me 🙂

  208.  #208Serena on May 13, 2011 at 1:00 am

    Kaitlyn @202 , sorry didnt read that before last post , but WOW you are amazingly strong. Many of us here struggle not to text or call after he does a lean back for a day , let alone a disappearing act like that.
    I feel delighted to read that you held fiem and did not contact him then and no, you need not reply now.

  209.  #209Femininewoman on May 13, 2011 at 1:05 am

    kaitlyn is it possible for you to offer to drive?

  210.  #210kaitlyn on May 13, 2011 at 1:06 am


    Yeah, our last convo in 2007 went down like this via IM.

    Me: It feels like things are becoming different with us lately. As in more of a disconnect. What do you think?

    Him: Brb

    And that was it. He never came back. Ever. In any capacity. I held strong and never contacted him. All this was way pre-Rori. I had a very wise friend help me through this.

  211.  #211kaitlyn on May 13, 2011 at 1:08 am

    209 We usually are in my car. I prefer other ppl driving my car. I’m not that great of a driver and get even more nervous driving in front of him. I’m very bad with directions and don’t need him, like today when I was driving, “what, are you retarded? we’ve been here a million times. why are you in this lane? you never pay attention.”

  212.  #212kaitlyn on May 13, 2011 at 1:14 am


    The power of delete. Just pressed the delete button on his message. Wish real life had a delete button.

  213.  #213kaitlyn on May 13, 2011 at 1:37 am

    I hate hearing “If you were a guy, I’d hit you.”

    i just tell myself ‘don’t be triggered don’t be triggered. stay stoic. no reaction. any reaction will make it worse. go dead inside. just go dead inside until he’s calmed down.’

  214.  #214kaitlyn on May 13, 2011 at 1:39 am

    I wish Adam were here to help me through this. He’s not. It’s just me.

  215.  #215The Lurker on May 13, 2011 at 2:13 am

    #206 Kaitlyn, we’re talking about the bff who self described himself as an “a**hole”, right? He obviously is. And it sounds as if he feels comfortable in this role, it may bother him a bit in the back of his mind, but not enough to change. After all, he’s getting away with that behaviour. He may be a bit nicer as a friend, but that doesn’t influence how he will treat you at work. There you’re just another scapegoat which has to absorb his lack of self criticism. Since nothing can be his fault, all is your fault. The positive feedback he got from his finished projects reinforces for him that this lousy professional attitude is ok. He’s not likely to change his ways, since that would feel to him like risking the success of his project (why should he change his “successful” method?). Am I about right with this interpretation?

    Well, if it’s so, you have to be aware that this isn’t about you at all. At work, you’re just another one of the suckers who have to tolerate his bad behaviour, not a friend. Ok, maybe it’s even worse, and he feels that he has to be more nice to you than to the others (and being nice doesn’t come easily for him), so this increases his aggression. Regardless, it doesn’t seem likely that it will become better in the near future, so this is simply the price to be paid for working with him. Of course, the question is, is the price too high? But this project is important for you, opening a new line of work, so I guess the answer is clear.

    Reminding yourself that this isn’t about you, that you’re just playing the role of the lightning rod for all his negative feelings, should make this a bit easier for you. It should prevent the friendship from suffering under the negative experiences of working with that guy. It’s two different worlds, like we Germans say “duty is duty and booze is booze”.

    For me, it helps to see this such situations a more remote way, with a lot of humor, grinning inside about the lousy kabuki theatre. Like “now look at him, there he goes again, what a clown!” That would take the sharp edge from his insults and unfairness, and make you feel more in control of your feelings. Imho the best way to not get overwhelmed by negative feelings when working with a**holes (and I, like probably most people, have some experience with such jerks at work).

    Another idea: Do you have contact with someone who worked with your bff on another project? How about contacting him/her? Maybe there are some tricks to be learned. And even if not, it may feel relaxing to vent about this cr** with a person who has gone through the same drama (and to be reminded that he/she survived this). You sure sound like you need to find a way to relax a bit now. Take care, girl!

  216.  #216The Lurker on May 13, 2011 at 2:21 am

    #214 Did Adam help you through such sh** in the past, Kaitlyn? How did he do that? And is there someone (another bff or a relative) who could do the same for you now? If there is, reach out to that person, even if that may be a bit embarassing. Would be good for you to get rid of some of the frustration you’re experiencing now…

  217.  #217Femininewoman on May 13, 2011 at 2:31 am

    kaitlyn I used to say I have no sense of direction and would always get lost, sometimes what seemed like in my own backyard. I’d go to a place this weekend and then next weekend and got lost. The time when a friend noticed it and told me to stop saying that. I took note and stopped. It is years now since that experience and I do not get lost anymore even though I do not use a GPS. At times I do miss my way but I am so confident that people are willing to help me I reach out and they do respond. Just a suggestion, I feel fear is driving you, maybe fear of just being out there in the world. It is your car. Like it is my house and allowing people to be here insulting me in it. He might even be feeling resentment without even knowing what it is for having to drive you. I would look at that if I were you to take back responsibility for that part of my life. Trust me girl you can do it. I have even read that guys hate it when we allow them to treat us badly. He might be wanting you to take responsibility for your feelings and stop him from dumping his anger on you. Believe it or not he will respect you for that if you do.

  218.  #218Femininewoman on May 13, 2011 at 2:34 am

    Yeah but Adam did nothing you cannot do for yourself. He is not here now and I am sure he would be proud of you if he knew you learnt something from him and would be willing to do the same for yourself. He wouldn’t want to know that you would be weak all the time and he would have to be lifting you up, it would become tiresome to him. He would want to know that he could teach you something and you could learn from him. That would empower and inspire him to want to teach you more.

  219.  #219Femininewoman on May 13, 2011 at 5:48 am

    RE 215 “like we Germans say” huh?

  220.  #220Elizabeth on May 13, 2011 at 6:01 am

    What is it with the impatience of some guys. I corresponded with one on the dating site, emails back and forth for a couple of days. Then he offered to call, so we spoke on the phone. It was OK, nothing to write home about really. I was kind of open to speaking with him again, but not bowled over. He was wanting to meet this weekend. I said maybe. He called again the other night, but I didn’t rush to return the call, not as any kind of strategy….just wasn’t moved to. A day went by and he texted wondering if I was still interested in going out. I didn’t feel like replying at that point, but hadn’t completely written him off. He texted ‘do you still want to chat or do you want me to stop trying’. then four hours later, ‘I guess your lack of reply means no. You will not hear from me again.’ That was last night. That’s fine. He showed lack of persistence, and I’m not all the way open, either. as it turns out, he’s retired navy. I couldn’t resist, and texted back this morning, ‘OK, you rang the quit bell, so there’s no chance of becoming a Navy Seal now.’
    thanks, Brenda!!


  221.  #221Dorothea on May 13, 2011 at 6:05 am

    Yay, it’s Lurker. I want to shrink you down to pocket size and carry you around for communication advice.

    i am going to text him. it’s driving me nuts and i’m not sure why i am censoring myself. i don’t feel desperate for space anymore so i’m not contradicting myself.

    i am going to have to tell him i mean business about this just dating thing though. i don’t want to be pressured, rushed, or manipulated. i want true, pure love. PURE. i want someone i can count on to be there for me when i (rarely) ask. he is not that guy right now, by his own doing. he has to accept that if he really does want to see me.

    and he has to think about why he showed up time and time again to the fighting and craziness, and fed the toxic monster of our relationship. But I have no idea how I would ever tell him “yo dude, you’re crazy like me and have a fear of abandonment and intimacy that is running the show…u need to heal that”

  222.  #222Dorothea on May 13, 2011 at 6:11 am

    for the record, i will not be texting all THAT to him

  223.  #223Femininewoman on May 13, 2011 at 6:14 am


    I have tried to resist speaking about your situation but feel like doing so now because of 221. It seems to me that you are putting a lot of pressure on yourself.

  224.  #224Femininewoman on May 13, 2011 at 6:18 am

    All of what you have written came across to me as you emoting and emitting a lot of energy. So now I am wondering if that is what he is feeling why he might be triggered to pressure? I understand it might be you or your way but I would look to see if I was being a tornado just dragging him along in my wake. Hope I am wrong.

  225.  #225Femininewoman on May 13, 2011 at 6:20 am

    What I understand is that we heal first and in so doing invite the guys along for the ride. Saying ““yo dude, you’re crazy like me and have a fear of abandonment and intimacy that is running the show…u need to heal that” seems to me like dictating or asking someone to do something that I have not done. It reminds me of an email I received from Rori that suggests that we should go first in the change department and by showing him that we can change we inspire the change in him.

  226.  #226Elizabeth on May 13, 2011 at 6:22 am

    191: Lucy

    Lucy, I sense that you may be taking that letter too personally on behalf of the men. That harshness was in all likelihood intended for effect, to jar people out of their fantasy worlds. It was harsh words for the woman, too. It made HER responsible. This is more about her lack of discrimination of, or flat out ignoring, someone’s basic character, than about judging. As for settling in with a better woman for him, sure, that’s a possibility. But some guys really are bottom feeders, good at sales techniques, good at acting the dead puppy routine, where they fake tears of sorrow so that a woman will forgive them and keep giving and giving.

    Unsuspecting, accepting, nurturing, rescuing, fixing type woman fall into these traps, and when nothing really works, because the man just can’t do a real relationship, for whatever reason, they may need a wake up call like that.

    It may sound like blaming, but sometimes you just have to look something straight in the eyes, and see it for what it is, sans any kind of sugar coating. This approach may not be for the faint of heart.



    “Wow I feel angry reading that EMK letter on the last thread. Tightness in my chest and churning in stomach. I don’t want to see men judged, especially so harshly! I feel sad reading this “advice.” And I also believe the judgments may quite possibly be way off – the new woman may be more right for him and someone he feels good committing to and staying with. I’ve seen that kind of thing happen. I feel better not blaming a man when it doesn’t work out.”

  227.  #227Dorothea on May 13, 2011 at 6:27 am

    Hi FW, i do want to change first. i havent seen him in 2 weeks because it’s ultra triggering and he jumps right into toxic crap with me.

    urgh i feel angry hearing that i am a tornado dragging him around because to me it sounds like this is my fault.

    and i’m a smart girl, i can see where he’s resisted me healing stuff in myself. i can see how he is much more at ease in the unhealthy stuff.

    if i seem like a tornado, it’s because i’m here letting that steam off instead of going to him to do it.

    i feel super defensive, FW, and i don’t want you to for one second feel bad about it. u definitely haven’t done anything wrong! thank you for giving me your input.

  228.  #228Femininewoman on May 13, 2011 at 6:29 am

    The first step is always to STOP beating yourself up.

    If we’re always punishing ourselves, we’ll be attracted to and attractive for men who will punish us FOR us.

    And what happens when we do that?

    We blame the man. But really, all he’s doing is his “job” of punishing and hurting us so WE don’t have to do the dirty job.

    To really jump into this first step, just STOP.

    That means, no matter what’s happened or what’s happening, don’t do these things:

    Don’t blame anyone.

    Accept that you likely made some mistakes, didn’t listen to your inner voice that was alerting you to his red flags, and didn’t stand by your boundaries – and be THRILLED that you’ve now caught those mistakes so you don’t have to make them again!

    That’s right – be EXCITED.

    From Rori email.

  229.  #229Femininewoman on May 13, 2011 at 6:30 am

    Vulnerability is not necessarily revealing personal things about yourself.


    Rori’s explanation about vulnerability.

  230.  #230The Lurker on May 13, 2011 at 6:34 am

    #220 #221 Sirens, sometimes I’m really almost scratching my head here (as Daria imagined recently): What’s it good for us guys to lead, to do the leaning forward, if you girls don’t respond? Not even with a short text saying “sry, got other stuff on my mind now, will answer tomorrow”? Do you have any idea how it is to wait for answer that doesn’t come? I guess you have, since you complain about boys who don’t react on you, too. You’re just not really aware of the fact that you’re not acting much better.

    Sry for this rant, but as a guy, I can’t help but solidarizing a bit with those guys you talk about. I have no idea if they are boyfriend material for you or not, but how do you want to find out when you put no efforts into it? And are you aware that the “competition” doesn’t only work one way, but that the guys may chose to invest their time into communicating with other girls, who offer a more reliable feedback?

    I totally understand that you’re often not in the mood to open up for a real convo. I’m that way very often, too. But then, it may be a good idea to analyze where those mood swings come from, and to work on them. It’s not very fair to blame your CDs for contacting you in the wrong moment, as if we guys are mindreaders who ought to know how you feel without you saying it. And afaik ignoring a CD who hasn’t done anything wrong is not part of Rori’s relationship advice.

    Damn, I like you girls, you open up so much and show such an attractive feminity here, but when reading about your communication habits, I can’t help but feeling sry for the men who try to date you.
    Ok, only my opinion, other guys may see that differently.

  231.  #231Dorothea on May 13, 2011 at 6:35 am

    i went to text him and realized that what was primarily motivating me was the fear that if i don’t text him this morning, he will text me first saying ‘i don’t want you anymore because i offered you some love and you didn’t say yes’ (actually i didn’t say ANYTHING lol)

    and then i think, it’s 730 in the morning. in the past we would get into texting about each other and our ‘relationship’ first thing in the morning, or during the work day, but now i am kind of feeling like it can wait for a more appropriate time so we don’t cloud each other’s days up.

    but then i think…if i don’t text him soon, i am going to lose him forever.


    confusion. and fear of abandonment.

  232.  #232Elizabeth on May 13, 2011 at 6:37 am

    228. Thanks, FW
    that’s a kinder, gentler version of the emk letter–
    a nice adjunct to it.
    That’s exactly how I feel, thrilled and excited
    to be in a new, better, improved, stronger ‘place’.
    Gee, I sound like a new Mr. Clean product or something. 😉


  233.  #233Femininewoman on May 13, 2011 at 6:40 am

    RE 230 Lurker for the most part I agree with you. However, I like the idea of experimenting and therapy. I get to experiment with different ways of communicating to see what I create. Some guys take what you are suggesting as pursuing and they lean back and wait for you to initiate “ALL THE TIME”. I have personally experienced that because I guess he saw himself as more valuable than I was. Realizing that drops my self-esteem to rock bottom. That I cannot afford.

  234.  #234The Lurker on May 13, 2011 at 6:41 am

    As a general point for discussion: If someone feels like she/he is not in the mood to communicate with a CD, may that be based on a deeper seated fear of rejection, or previous negative experiences in a relationship? What do you Sirens and Sailor think?

  235.  #235Lily T. on May 13, 2011 at 6:45 am

    #226 Elizabeth,

    I saw the woman in EMK’s letter as someone who was holding onto a fantasy relationship. She had been with the guy 7 months, he left for someone else (?), and a year later she was still unable to move on from what she thought he was/they had for those 7 months. Whether the guy is a user, jerk, etc. doesn’t matter as much as why this woman is still “stuck” with this idealized version of the relationship after a year. Why is she holding onto it so tight?

    I’ve been there in two different relationships, and it was long, long after they were over I was able to figure it out in an objective way.

  236.  #236Dorothea on May 13, 2011 at 6:47 am

    okiedokie i think part of what’s making me nuts is how hard it is for me to communicate in text messages and feel good about the effectiveness of my communication. so i just called him to tell him like, look it’s been a couple of days and i don’t want to just leave you hanging forever, etc etc what i have to say.

    but he didn’t answer. hopefully he’s just sleeping. sleep is good. he’ll call me back when he’s ready.

    that or he’ll text me ‘hey saw you called,’ which will drive me nuts lol

  237.  #237Elizabeth on May 13, 2011 at 6:49 am

    Hi Lurks! Thank you for sharing how you feel about this. I would like to go a little deeper, if you don’t mind. To my mind, what we have here with all this impatience is a symptom of the new world of instant gratification in which we live. I am not one of the ones that complain if a guy in the beginning stages does not call, write or text back right away. I know that people are busy and have a lot on their plates. If they are truly interested they would probably have more patience and determination and persistence. For example, my former childhood sweetheart, teenage romance interest, and I gave it a go a couple of years ago, and it blew up in our faces. It was a long distance thing and other problems…. but I stuck to my boundaries, staying out of contact, telling him I don’t want anything to do with him, and he still persists. He says I can’t get rid of him that easy. I talk to him a couple of times a month, as friends. I sincerely doubt there will be anything other than an old friendship rekindled there. But the point is, he cares about and is interested enough in me to keep trying.
    Do you see the difference? What do you think?



  238.  #238The Lurker on May 13, 2011 at 6:51 am

    #231 Dorothea, this looks a bit like you’re stuck in a reinforcing circle. You imagine how he will respond, and then you fear that imagined response (that’s actually very close to the topic of Rori’s story here!). Next, your fear prevents you from answering. Which, of course, will eventually drive him to give up on you, once his feeling of self esteem gets the upper hand over his feelings for you. It’s really some kind of self fulfilling prophecy!

    Always expecting the worst, and letting this guide your actions leads to so much unnecessary suffering. You should adress this. Find and embrace that nasty NV, and use the other tools the Sirens recommend for such problems. Time for some healing, Doro!

  239.  #239Femininewoman on May 13, 2011 at 6:54 am

    RE 230 I believe it is both a mixture of what you and Elizabeth says. My experience is when a man is interested/attracted he tries, he does what he wants to do. No amount of impatience on our part is going to get him to change his ways or do more than what he is prepared to do. If he is attracted the fear will not necessarily go away but he might just say something to bring to your attention that you are reacting out of fear but he will want to help.

  240.  #240Dorothea on May 13, 2011 at 6:55 am

    i’m really working on it! i don’t know why but i am taking the feedback today as criticism. like urghhh can’t you see how much i am working on this! lol
    it was 2 days. i want to be able to excuse myself from a crying screaming fest for 2 days if i need to, even if he says 1 right thing.

    we are not committed. i can do what i need to do to take care of me.

    i am defensive right now. i also am very hungry, which leads to yucky feelings. blood sugar issues lol

  241.  #241Elizabeth on May 13, 2011 at 6:55 am

    235. Lily T.

    “Why is she holding onto it so tight?”

    Yes, i agree with you, i think that is the crux. I also think it was about, as in the part of the letter which FW shared, about not listening to the red flags, having holes in boundaries.

    I think it comes back to her getting caught up in what could have been, instead of idealizing what never was.

    As you say in your experience, it can takes some time to come to grips with that. IMO



  242.  #242Elizabeth on May 13, 2011 at 6:58 am

    sorry, i meant, she was also idealizing what never was,
    not “instead of”

    So, getting caught up in what might have been, and idealizing what he never was is why she was holding on so tight to the fantasy. Probably also wondering what she did wrong and all that stuff.


  243.  #243Femininewoman on May 13, 2011 at 7:03 am

    RE 238 Lurker you sound like Chris Carter there. Dorothea there is some “you” in the “advice” being given so it is normal to be defensive as that comes across as critical and blamey.

  244.  #244Brenda on May 13, 2011 at 7:04 am


    RE: #220 – LOLOLOL! I hate that when they just kill a connection before they even give it a chance! That is too funny how you handled it!

  245.  #245Femininewoman on May 13, 2011 at 7:14 am

    You want to go to him. You want to ask him what’s wrong. You want to know if you did something or said something to upset him. You want to make it better.

    But none of this seems to be helping, so you redouble your efforts. You pay him even more attention. Maybe you cook special dishes for him or dress more seductively.

    Or maybe you try to convince him how great a woman and girlfriend you are. And it only gets worse, doesn’t it? He withdraws even more.

    So what is it you need to do?

    1.The first thing you need to do is open your heart wide, and keep it soft and inviting, no matter how panicked you might feel inside, no matter how desperate and scared.

    2.Then you must leave him alone.

    Whatever it is that’s going on with him, you have to let him sort it out for himself.

    3.And then you MUST stop thinking about this. You MUST take your thoughts away from him and what
    he’s thinking, doing, planning.

    You must leave him space to come to you if he wants to.

    He may, or he may not. And you must be okay however this plays out.

    4.If he does come to you, you listen.

    You take in all he says with apt attention. You be his sounding board, but DO NOT offer advice unless he asks.

    If you feel sure you have a good solution, you can ask him if he’d like to hear your suggestion. He may accept or he may not.

    There’s really no point to giving advice to a man unless he asks for it – you’ll end up making him feel defensive, and he’ll start looking at you more as his “mother” than as his lover.

    It’ll make things worse, and make him withdraw even more.

    You must be okay with whatever he says.

    Men like to solve their own problems. Yours too in fact! So keep this in mind at all times.

    5.Lastly, you must go and take care of yourself.

    Fill your days with activities that inspire you. Try something new – maybe a new form of dance or exercise class or a cooking class, how about some form of art, pottery drawing, painting, or take a class at the local community college, anything that interests you.

    Following these guidelines in this way will give him a feeling of safety – and give you your best chance of drawing him back in close to you.

    And if this is a good man and more especially if he’s your “the one,” your energy will be so inviting, your absorption in the world will be so intriguing, he won’t be able to help himself!

    I know it’s hard to allow all of this to be on HIS timetable, and not yours – and yet it’s the fastest way to bring him back to you.

    If you’d like extra help to open your heart, relax and be inviting around him, and NOT get crazy when he withdraws so that he’ll come right back to you more quickly – try out my Sex and Heart ebook.It’ll raise your self-esteem, make you feel better instantly, and give you so many exact Tools to feel better inside yourself and attract your man back to you quickly.

    I wrote it for you because if I could create the brilliant relationship I have now with my man from the “horror pit” I was in – I KNOW that you can, too.

    Take a look at Sex and Heart right here:


    Try these steps – you’ll see a change in your man right away – and be sure to let me know how they work for you.

    Sincerely, Tinque

  246.  #246Femininewoman on May 13, 2011 at 7:15 am

    You want to go to him. You want to ask him
    what’s wrong. You want to know if you did
    something or said something to upset him. You want
    to make it better.

    But none of this seems to be helping, so you
    redouble your efforts. You pay him even more
    attention. Maybe you cook special dishes for him
    or dress more seductively.

    Or maybe you try to convince him how great a
    woman and girlfriend you are. And it only gets
    worse, doesn’t it? He withdraws even more.

    So what is it you need to do?

    1.The first thing you need to do is open your
    heart wide, and keep it soft and inviting, no
    matter how panicked you might feel inside, no
    matter how desperate and scared.

    2.Then you must leave him alone.

    Whatever it is that’s going on with him, you
    have to let him sort it out for himself.

    3.And then you MUST stop thinking about this.
    You MUST take your thoughts away from him and what
    he’s thinking, doing, planning.

    You must leave him space to come to you if he
    wants to.

    He may, or he may not. And you must be okay
    however this plays out.

    4.If he does come to you, you listen.

    You take in all he says with apt attention. You
    be his sounding board, but DO NOT offer advice
    unless he asks.

    If you feel sure you have a good solution, you
    can ask him if he’d like to hear your suggestion.
    He may accept or he may not.

    There’s really no point to giving advice to a
    man unless he asks for it – you’ll end up making
    him feel defensive, and he’ll start looking at you
    more as his “mother” than as his lover.

    It’ll make things worse, and make him withdraw
    even more.

    You must be okay with whatever he says.

    Men like to solve their own problems. Yours too
    in fact! So keep this in mind at all times.

    5.Lastly, you must go and take care of

    Fill your days with activities that inspire
    you. Try something new – maybe a new form of dance
    or exercise class or a cooking class, how about
    some form of art, pottery drawing, painting, or
    take a class at the local community college,
    anything that interests you.

    Following these guidelines in this way will
    give him a feeling of safety – and give you your
    best chance of drawing him back in close to you.

    And if this is a good man and more especially
    if he’s your “the one,” your energy will be so
    inviting, your absorption in the world will be so
    intriguing, he won’t be able to help himself!

    I know it’s hard to allow all of this to be on
    HIS timetable, and not yours – and yet it’s the
    fastest way to bring him back to you.

    If you’d like extra help to open your heart,
    relax and be inviting around him, and NOT get
    crazy when he withdraws so that he’ll come right
    back to you more quickly – try out my Sex and
    Heart ebook.It’ll raise your self-esteem, make you
    feel better instantly, and give you so many exact
    Tools to feel better inside yourself and attract
    your man back to you quickly.

    I wrote it for you because if I could create
    the brilliant relationship I have now with my man
    from the “horror pit” I was in – I KNOW that you
    can, too.
    Try these steps – you’ll see a change in your
    man right away – and be sure to let me know how
    they work for you.

    Sincerely, Tinque

    P.O. Box 831, Culver City, CA 90232, USA

    To unsubscribe or change subscriber options visit:

  247.  #247The Lurker on May 13, 2011 at 7:15 am

    #237 Liz, very strong point about “the new world of instant gratification in which we live”! Yes, this sure plays a role, too. And that probably also shows in the impatience of the guys who are texting you. If they “are truly interested they would probably have more patience and determination and persistence.”

    However, that’s only true if they already have a positive impression of you and want to know you better. Nobody shows much determination for a stranger. And we don’t have much patience with a first date who shows a lack of interest, either. So, for others to respect our indiviual timetables, we have to earn their respect first. Doesn’t this mean that in the first days, before establishing a a stronger bond, we got to have patience with their impatience, too? Hmm.

    Also, imho there’s good old politeness (yeah, maybe I’m a bit old fashioned in that regard, but I do think that’s still important). Not answering for two days isn’t very polite. Well, if I met a girl online, and had just talked to her once, without many sparks in this convo, I wouldn’t have much tolerance for being treated in that way. I’m not desperate enough to run after a girl who doesn’t show much, if any interest. So, off to greener pastries! That’s how that looks from the male side.

    So, I dunno, but it looks to me that a bit more repsect and tolerance is needed on both sides. We guys may follow your girls like lovesick fools very often, but we have some boundaries, too. And the more self respect a guy has (which is probably in sync with his masculinity), the less likely he is to wait two days for a single answer. So, this may result in filtering the good guys out, and being left with the less attractive ones. That should be taken into account, imho.

  248.  #248Dorothea on May 13, 2011 at 7:16 am

    omg i am freaking out. want to call and text since he hasn’t acknowledged my call. this must be why he was buggin me so much lol. feeling uncomfortable.

    must break pattern. must not chase him down. we have to be two humans that give each other our god given space and free will.

  249.  #249Elizabeth on May 13, 2011 at 7:18 am

    234: The Lurker says:

    As a general point for discussion: If someone feels like she/he is not in the mood to communicate with a CD, may that be based on a deeper seated fear of rejection, or previous negative experiences in a relationship? What do you Sirens and Sailor think?

    I think it could possibly be due to those two things or many other different reasons. Therefore, it’s best not to make quick assumptions and also good not to believe everything you think. I’ll tell you what my fear is– analysis paralysis. 😉


  250.  #250Dorothea on May 13, 2011 at 7:20 am

    i will just spam the board whenever i feel like chasing him down because i feel uncomfortable and want to control or see something happen. i want to break the pattern but the feeling is so strong….i’ll just let it out here.

    one of my values is giving someone space to think and breathe and act for themselves

  251.  #251Elizabeth on May 13, 2011 at 7:20 am

    246. Lurks

    “greener pastries”

    you got a recipe for those?!




  252.  #252The Lurker on May 13, 2011 at 7:21 am

    #243 “Lurker you sound like Chris Carter there.”
    Uh, FW, I hope this is meant as a compliment?
    No, seriously, thank you. I’ve noticed you Sirens mentioning that name here every now and then. He’s a coach like Evan, right? Will look him up. Always interested in learning more.

    Also, re #219, I am German. Did you miss that info?

  253.  #253Elizabeth on May 13, 2011 at 7:22 am

    You know, I realize I am probably not being the model circular dating woman, but I just didn’t feel like meeting this guy was going to go anyway. So that’s the truth. I didn’t really want to give him a chance. The rest is just filler. OK, so sue me.


  254.  #254Elizabeth on May 13, 2011 at 7:23 am

    i meant, “like meeting this guy was going to go anywhere”

  255.  #255Femininewoman on May 13, 2011 at 7:24 am

    Yes first time I noticed you responding to the question on nationality. Thought it was a freudian slip.

    Carter is another coach. Just to point out that men seem not to differ so much on certain beliefs and experience of how relationships are.

  256.  #256The Lurker on May 13, 2011 at 7:25 am

    #248 “I’ll tell you what my fear is– analysis paralysis.”

    Really, Liz? That comes as a total suprise to me! Well, maybe that’s a love/hate relationship, dunno…

    Oops, that’s yet another quick assumption! Sry.

  257.  #257Elizabeth on May 13, 2011 at 7:25 am

    249 dorothea

    funny you say that, just before i read your post i had this feeling like i was spamming the board too, good thing i have to leave to go see a client soon…
    glad you feel comfortable to working your stuff out here, though, no complaints from me


  258.  #258turquoise3 on May 13, 2011 at 7:38 am

    Good morning sirens and sailors!!! So glad it’s Friday! 🙂 The girls are with their dad already for the weekend, I met him to exchange them this morning. They are on their way to Great Wolf Lodge… know they’ll have a blast! I am looking forward to some me time, out for drinks tonight with a friend, mani/pedi. in the morning. I have plans all weekend long, but am also looking forward to reading, exercising, listening to music and just having some down time.

    Brenda, thanks for the input. We dated for two months, and then he disappeared on me. About a month later, I reached out to say Happy Birthday. That was 3 weeks ago, and while I did see him twice, both times were last minute plans and he just came to my house. No dates, just nice conversation and some physical stuff. Which, I liked, but is not what I’m looking for. I don’t want to get attached if he’s not stepping up. I do understand wanting to see your pets, but I want to be with someone who would value being with me, more than visiting an ex and their pets. If he’d asked me to go to, or said, how about we do something Friday night after work, or let’s meet up Sunday for dinner on my way back…. but he didn’t. I’m not buying it that he’s just going there to see the dogs. He doesn’t seem to be a very sentimental person. He doesn’t have many friends because he (in his own words) is terrible about keeping in touch, they always have to call him… and he didn’t speak to his mother for over a year. I know he missed me, but apparently not enough to really step up and try to establish a real relationship with me.

    Which is ok, I’m just not looking for a FWB type thing, and in the long run, while it would be fun, and the chemistry was great, it’s not worth the risk of getting attached again and getting hurt. I want more. I said we could be friends, didn’t just disappear on him. I hope he does keep in touch, but I’m not expecting it.

  259.  #259The Lurker on May 13, 2011 at 7:39 am

    #250 ““greener pastries”
    you got a recipe for those?!”

    Lol Liz!
    Well, you probably know that we Germans are very much into green stuff (even elected a green governor recently), so this should be no problem. Checking at my favorite recipe site, I found this:
    Hope the google translation makes some sense!

  260.  #260DE on May 13, 2011 at 7:42 am

    Interested to learn more about Thyroid and a possible quick fix? Well, this is an interesting article I found on Jilian Michaels site…


    Happy Friday Sirens!

  261.  #261Boomer on May 13, 2011 at 7:42 am

    Lurker—mmmm, green pastries! Are they spinach flavored?

    Sorry, that just made me giggle. Darn spellcheck, huh?

    While I have your attention, Lurk, what would you say about a man who asked me out earlier this week for tonight but who has not called with details? (A man who was pretty absent for the last 6 weeks too.) Should I just assume he is not planning to see me in actuality and make other plans for myself? Should I text/call and ask about the plans (or will I just embarrass myself doing so)? What if he does call sometime today? Do I agree to meet? Whether I agree to meet him or not, do I tell him that it feels confusing not knowing what my plans are for the night?

    Boy thoughts would be wonderful. Thank you.

  262.  #262The Lurker on May 13, 2011 at 7:50 am

    #247 Dorothea, your guy probably felt the same way when you didn’t respond. So, you both have issues to work on, not only you. Even more reason to come up with boundaries that work for both of you. Like, no texting during work, or whatever rule helps you to get the space you need. Of course, he would want some assurance that you’ll repsond when the reaches out to you during the “allowed” hours. Even if its only a short text like “sry, i’m in a horrible mood, can’t speak to anybody now”. Something that shows him it’s not his fault. With a little bit of effort, it should be possible to turn communication into a better experience for you both.

    Also, #249, good idea! Lots of Sirens here who are well versed with the tools, and can help you with working on feelings of fear and anxiety.

  263.  #263Alicia on May 13, 2011 at 7:59 am

    LUVIT!!! Great article.. Rori. Just what I needed to read this morning and divine order on the timing. 🙂

    Self correcting really isnt so hard. I feel less judgmental towards myself for not always having my thoughts right. Its may not be anything I did or said at all… And I realized ya..it’s probably nothing. And I can be in my own space in a good mood.


  264.  #264Femininewoman on May 13, 2011 at 8:12 am

    RE 261 Boomer though you asked Lurk I just wanted to say I remember seeing something similar from Alonka. I advised her to go to plan B but the guy showed up the same day a couple hours before the date with timing, place etc. and she did accept. My opinion is that in his mind this must be a casual thing between friends, not romantic, so no need to step up. Also did you set a boundary as in I need a confirmation, 24-48 hours before to plan my day, otherwise I will assume you are off the planet and go plan to do something else? kind of thing.

  265.  #265The Lurker on May 13, 2011 at 8:13 am

    #260 Boomer, I understand he didn’t even fix a time when you would go out? So, it’s not only the detail where to meet? Well, if your talk was more than 48 hours ago (two days seems to be the typical timespan we guys put between two calls), it’s indeed questionable if he intents to meet you. Maybe he’s a bit chaotic, or something, but this doesn’t look good.

    So, what to do? Hmm, knowing nothing about the guy, I’m torn. Just deleted a suggestion for a text message. No matter how I phrased it, too much leaning forward, which he doesn’t deserve now. He has to learn you’re not that kind of girl who will wait until the last minute for him to make his mind up. You have other offers, too, and he has to compete. IF you’re interested in that guy, and still willing to give him a chance, how about making plans with others, but leaving a timespan where you can fit him in (no pun intended! :D)? If he’s into you, he’ll notice his mistake, and he’ll be glad that he can at least see you for an hour or so. That looks like a good compromise to me.

    Btw, I don’t use any spellcheck here. All mistakes are handmade! And, yes, damn, sometimes I confuse English phrases or misspell words.

  266.  #266SummerBaby on May 13, 2011 at 8:37 am


    If it were me, I would make a plan B right now and elevate it to plan A. That way, if he calls, I would be able to say, “oh, when I didn’t hear from you, I made other plans.”

    As my mother would say, “Scratch him from your list!” For some reason I love the way that sounds/feels. lol I think because it energetically makes room for someone who will treat you better.


  267.  #267Boomer on May 13, 2011 at 9:02 am

    FW, Lurker, and Summerbaby (and Jacqueline’s support from last night): Thank you so much. I know I’ve been all angst-ridden about this man for three days, and I appreciate the straight-up advice.

    FW, I guess I assume when a man says he will make a plan, choose a place, and get back to me “in the next day or two” that I do not have to browbeat him with my unwillingness to be strung along. And yes, Lurk, he does strike me as rather “chaotic” (good word) rather than just a douchebag whose planning to bail on me, but I don’t really want either type of man to be honest. I cannot tell in this case if I am dealing with “clueless” or “cowardly/malicious,” but who needs either type? Not I. I nwo in teh past I made excuses for seemingly clueless men…and in at least a few cases, they ended up actually jsut being on the malicious side of the equation. And I’m always surprised at how they could be like that AND at how I could have been so clueless myself!!

    So, yes, I am making other plans for tonight. What’s funny, is that those plans will be in HIS town, which is where my bestie Annie Clyde lives and whose house I’ll probably go to tonight after the wine class. He was going to be down here in MY town for his son’s game right near the college where I am taking my class, and now I’m going back his way. Hee. So, Lurk, your thoughts that “maybe I can fit him in” will work if he goes home.

    Thanks so much, everyone. I am resolved not to text. I almost did several times this morning, but I wanted to check here first. So glad I did.

    Why does this have to be so hard???? I’m with you, Lurk, politeness is never a bad choice.

  268.  #268Boomer on May 13, 2011 at 9:09 am

    Turquiose. I think it’s so cool that you made a break with Tom. Sometimes we know what’s best for us even though it’s hard to do. Brava! I know that I often choose “what feels good now” and then wonder why I get so hurt. I am going to take a lesson from you.

    You took a great step toward raising your vibe and esteem for the right one.

    Peace 🙂

  269.  #269Dorothea on May 13, 2011 at 9:20 am

    THIS IS SOOO HARD. checking his fb, my phone every 3 seconds lol.

    now i know how he feels

    i have compassion for both of us feeling this way or having felt this way.

    but it doesn’t mean it’s ok or healthy to give into the pattern’s impulses to harass or hound or push.

    although i am starting to realize that he never did anything wrong by rushing or ‘pressuring,’ that was his role and mine was to hold my boundaries. so if something felt bad and communication wasn’t working, i should have taken care of myself and separated until i felt better, instead of staying glued to his hip hoping he would make me feel comfortable and whole again.

    the whole thing is fascinating. by not taking care of myself and my own boundaries, it pushed him away from being able to do much on his own to also take care of me.

    ahhh this is hard lol. must. not. hound. him.

  270.  #270T-Girl on May 13, 2011 at 9:24 am

    I had my lunch date with SexyOlderGuy yesterday. It was bittersweet – I was so excited to see him. We had a great time and caught up and he sounded like he wanted to make plans to see me again but no plans were made. I didn’t use any feeling messages because I couldn’t figure out how to use them! I did text him later though (lean forward, I know) that it felt good to see him again. He texted back saying that was a good thing and he agreed.

    The bittersweet part is that to me he seems like a freebird – he can pretty much take off for the weekend whenever he wants – and he does. I just don’t know how I could ever fit into his lifestyle. 🙁

    In the meantime, my guy with no job is calling me everyday and making plans with me for next weekend when my daughter goes to her dad’s. I wish I could say the no job thing doesn’t bother me but it does. Should I tell him that? I’m not asking him to change anything….it may just be my issue because it bothers me? I don’t see him as lazy, but I also don’t see that he has a stable future.

  271.  #271Femininewoman on May 13, 2011 at 9:27 am

    Sarah If you play games you will get a game player. Rori advises to be authentic and real no game playing. It seems to me that he might be addicted to drama from what you write. Daria might be able to help you express that in ways that he can hear as in telling him what you don’t want and sharing the icky feelings in the moment.

    Staying on the phone hours with him is encouraging him to be a phone romeo and not having to step up because he has so much of your attention. Their is no mystery and nothing to crave. It is my belief that you can create an imaginary relationship through telephone conversation as opposed to physical face to face close connection. Seems to me like you need to get busy living your life rather than being available to him when he calls or yourself leaning forward and calling him because you are bored or your instincts is pushing you to call. That way you will not be playing games, you will be genuinely busy to the point of forgetting about him. Vote for yourself with your presence or absence thereof, as Jacqueline puts it.

  272.  #272turquoise3 on May 13, 2011 at 10:15 am


    Shift your focus elsewhere…. are you on any dating sites? Check and see who your new matches are. Planning to see a movie anytime soon? Read some reviews, check showtimes…. want to try a new dish? Research some recipes. Call your stylist and make an appointment for a trim, or a manicure. 🙂 Take care of you…shift the vibe to something positive, and give your brain a break. You’ve been so focused on him and the relationship all week. Just try to shift it, and then when he does reply, you’ll feel better.

    Big hugs!

  273.  #273turquoise3 on May 13, 2011 at 10:16 am

    T-Girl, no job would be a boundary issue for me. If it makes you feel bad, acknowledge that. If he’s off on disability or laid off or something, ok, that is one thing. If he can’t keep a job, big red flag.

  274.  #274turquoise3 on May 13, 2011 at 10:21 am

    Thanks Boomer 🙂 I just keep saying, if I want things to be different, I have to do different things. 🙂

  275.  #275Dorothea on May 13, 2011 at 10:25 am

    Thanks, turquoise! Sounds so simple but so hard to do, right? But I’m doing it…starting….now

    all in all though, the couple of days of true silence made me feel much better and gave me a chance to recuperate and heal a bit.

  276.  #276Daria on May 13, 2011 at 10:27 am

    feelin good and hella tired at my sisters house

    felt wonderful

    did EFT

    thank you Daria

    felt overcome by past vibes at times, babysteps to change it to LOVE

    pink in the network of nerves behind the heart

  277.  #277Femininewoman on May 13, 2011 at 10:37 am

    The result at this “infatuation stage” is that you fall fast and hard and the part of you that longs for romance jumps to all sorts of conclusions about what a great man he is. In your eyes he becomes everything you’ve ever wanted, and you already can see him as your ideal husband.

    To find the right man, you have to hold back your wishful thinking and wait to let time reveal the truth of who a man really is. He will not be perfect and he will have faults, just like you.

    You have to be aware of what you are assuming you know about this “stranger” and look at him without your rosey glasses.

    Be aware how your mind naturally defaults into what I call “positive hoping.”

    I’m not telling you to expect the worst from a man and watch for it, I’m just warning you that because your desire for a relationship is so strong your tendency will be to only see what will get you closer to that reality.

  278.  #278Ella on May 13, 2011 at 11:03 am

    Regarding this post,

    I did this very thing this morning.

    Last night I spent the night with my guy in his bed (no sex just cuddles) and this morning when I woke up I snuggled into him and then after a while he turned the other way.

    And I thought ‘why is he ignoring me?’

    And then I thought ‘he is thinking about his ex’ which led to ‘he is comparing us and he wishes I was her!’

    And then ‘she is thinner and younger than me!’

    And then I felt really tense and needy.

    And then I began to think maybe he was panicking bc we already live together and he was thinking that what if he needed some space… etc etc…

    And how funny that this was all in my head, based on no evidence and my mind went into overdrive and I ended up feeling tense and needy.

    At the time I knew what was happening and couldn’t think how to shift my focus back onto me.

    Later, when I came away and was driving up to the city I got involved in thinking about other things, listening to music and enjoying the scenery and the drive, and suddenly he text me a really nice text apologising for being in a rush this morning and he had been late for work, with loads of kisses.

    So easy to shift the vibe if I can just keep in mind how to do it when stuff comes up.

    Great post!

  279.  #279Ella on May 13, 2011 at 11:06 am

    Today I am feeling quite tired and low energy.

    I feel tense and would like a hot bath and some me time.

    Unfortunately this will not happen as I am in the city working and then meeting a friend who I haven’t seen for ages and she wants to go out dancing.

    Then tomorrow night it’s my brother’s g,friends hen do. Then Sunday another work app before finally driving home!

    Maybe I can chill out a bit at my friend’s house though.

    I hope so.

  280.  #280Ella on May 13, 2011 at 11:07 am

    Btw –

    Thanks and hugs to everyone who commented on my posts on the last thread.

    It felt so nice to be supported with love.


  281.  #281Ella on May 13, 2011 at 11:07 am

    Nanceen from last thread post 522,

    Hell yeah, I love buffets!

    😉 xoxox

  282.  #282mali on May 13, 2011 at 11:21 am

    Yay Daria! (From a way, waaaay previous post ;))

    I’m still feeling hooked on cocky guy’s chemistry… it’s incredible! And to know that I’m respecting myself and allowing *him* to do the chasing feels even better.

    I do think that he’ll ask me out eventually, but he’s probably scared I’ll say no. When he asked me out for “drinks” with himself and some others, the way he was watching my face for a reaction, the slight insecurity that passed his face when I told him I’d be busy this weekend… Oh, he cares. He cares. And I feel GOOD knowing that.

    But: I’ll let time have its way, and I won’t focus on him… I’ll live my life, be happy, and in the meantime, let the men pour like rain! 😉

  283.  #283SummerBaby on May 13, 2011 at 11:27 am

    the other day I said to myself, how would I feel if I were sure he already loved me? how would I be different? how would I act?

    then I asked myself, how would he treat me if he loved me? and I started realizing he’s already treating me that way, so I just relaxed and felt good and noticed how well he treats me.

    now there are more things I’m noticing about him growing closer. So maybe it’s more about asking different questions to change the vibe?

    I have even pretended and acted like everything is already the way I would love it (act as if). and frankly, that always makes me feel better about myself, because I start to realize that reality is not that far off from my dreams. 🙂

    off to work



  284.  #284SummerBaby on May 13, 2011 at 11:31 am


    when they ask like that, you can say, I would love to, but such and such is planned, or I have other plans… that way they know you are not saying, back off…

    so when he comes around again and starts flirting you can say, btw, thanks for the invite, I would have loved to go… so he knows you’re still interested.

  285.  #285Ella on May 13, 2011 at 11:32 am

    Daria re 50

    LMAO! xx

  286.  #286Brenda on May 13, 2011 at 11:45 am


    I wrote you a heartfelt post, #113, and I just want to make sure you saw it.

    Love, Brenda

  287.  #287Maria on May 13, 2011 at 11:47 am

    Re:277 to Femininewoman
    Hello there thanx for giving the email adresses a few days ago. I emailed her just now hope she gets my email. =)

  288.  #288Ella on May 13, 2011 at 11:55 am

    Btw Sirens,

    I think Beyonce the singer is a Siren. Maybe she is even on Siren island with us!

    If you listen to the lyrics in her songs they scream Siren!

    There is one where she says ‘ran by the men but the women keep the tempo’ which is pretty much exactly what Rori says about the Rori Raye dance in Modern Siren!

    Next time you listen to her songs see what you think.

    Upgrade you is a classic example!


  289.  #289Dorothea on May 13, 2011 at 11:57 am

    I feel so silly. I wish I had just left a message instead of vaguely calling him at 730 in the morning and not leaving a message. Now I’m left fretting about if he will call me back. He probably thought I just called for a ride to work or something, lol. Or to tell him I was done forever, lol. Sigh.

    What a day.

  290.  #290LonePlum on May 13, 2011 at 12:02 pm

    581 + 578 FW from previous thread

    Hi! 🙂
    You told me to come check your post, so here I came

    *** I asked my mother what did she do because I thought she must have moved something. ***

    The “on” button of your parents was pushed by this question, which started them off .

    Try to ask
    ”Mom? Are you all right? I heard a slap in the kitchen, do you need help?”
    Silence means she is not all right, she might have caught the electricity in the body

    Or she might answer
    “I am fine thanks. I stumbled against a pack of milk, that’s what you heard”
    “I am fine, thanks. I pushed the kettle button on and the light went off”
    (In such case you got your technical answer)
    “I am fine, I am just standing in the dark in the kitchen. Don’t know what the noise was.”

    To which you can say
    “I need to collect information to think what to do. I need to know what we each were doing when the light went off.”

    your father and mother might answer
    “I was reading, I was plugging nothing”
    “I was drinking milk from the fridge, I was plugging nothing”
    then you can say
    “Well, in this case, I might call an electrician? It does not seem to be related to anything we did”

    But if your post means that while you were looking at the breakers something happened;
    you could ask
    “I heard a noise in the kitchen just now and I need to know if it is related to any electrical staff? Has anything been plugged in or turned on just now?

    “What did you do?”might mean many things.
    If their hearts are made of fear, shame and guilt since their childhood, the least reminder of guilt will trigger their anxiety.
    Your father uses insults to express his shame and his dislike against himself. He does not think he is good enough. He can’t believe he deserves a “quality” daughter. Something got to be wrong with her or else she is not his.

    Were you his first born?
    If so, he might have gone through the process of giving himself the permission to be a father trough your birth. He first denied the link.
    “She is not unworthy like me. People like me do not make quality people like baby FW.
    My wife can not love me to the point she gives me a child, I don’t deserve a quality child like baby FW”
    And he makes up the story the child is not his. If you are not his child, it makes reality fit his anxiety.
    Plus if you are not his child, he won’t have to pay life for such happiness to have such a good quality daughter.

    If you are not his first born, it can be that you are “the” quality daughter, among his children, and he can’t believe he deserves such a luck to be your father.
    He looks for the proof there is something wrong with you, that would allow him to be your father.

    In any case, it is about his feeling of being unworthy of your qualities. Could be a deeply wounded man.

    When he expressed his doubts, when you were a child, he could have been fishing for reassurance. It is a very common harmful way to fish for reassurance. They don’t realize how harmful it can be. Your siblings heard it and repeated it. You misunderstood the whole thing when you were a child. Your mother might have repeated the fact that he said it, which might be true and you did not catch to what extend it was a fishing tool in their couple.

    I would ask my father :
    “I don’t want to intrude your private life with your wife, daddy, but it is something I can’t go on without knowing any more. I love you, which is independent from the story of my birth. But I came to a point in my life I can’t move forward, a question is blocking my road. Do you believe I am your daughter?”

    ///////// If he says “yes”
    I would tell him I keep reminding the comments I heard as a child.
    Tell him which comments and ask him to explain them to you.
    If he can bare it and explains it, when he is finished, tell him something like:
    “When my father insults me, I think he believes I am not his daughter and he hates me for it. I feel scared and lost and trapped in something I can have no influence to improve. I can’t improve the story of my birth. Nobody can. I am not responsible for whom are my father and mother and I feel desperately orphan when my father insults me. My heart closes to protect from the insults. And I go in life heart closed to happiness and joy. Can you help me to keep my heart opened to love?”

    ///////// If he says “no” (To the original question)
    Ask him to explain when the doubts entered his mind and see from there where it takes you. Don’t try to hear from him the truth about your birth
    Only your mother knows the Truth.
    What you want to know is what he believes. And you want to know if his doubts are based on pragmatic details, like she had a lover back then and so on. In which case real events are ruining it for him.
    Or he points at physical and personality details that make him doubt but he says his wife never did or said anything to make him think she was sleeping with another man. His feeling of unworthiness are ruining it for him
    Or nothing at all, it is just an idea he’s had. Intuition sometimes spot on or feelings of unworthiness ruining his intuition.

    No matter why he doubts, you can tell him something like:
    “I believe you are my father, and I hurt when you doubt. Each of your insults to me reminds me you doubt. Your doubts make me doubt my own existence. It blocks my life away from love. You and I are the same, outsiders of our own stories. I will never know the truth for sure, no more than you will. We can only believe what we are told … Only my mother knows. And sometimes mothers don’t know for sure either. I trust the story life gave me and gives all of us = “This is your father, this is your mother and they are your siblings.” I believe my story. I don’t want your doubts to leave me orphan. Do you allow me to love you as the father you are to me, the father I have always loved and never doubted since I was born? Can you help me with staying your daughter? I want to stay your daughter. Do you want to be my father? I want your fatherly love.”

    Your father on one hand criticizes and insults, to express his own disliking about himself, and on the other hand he does his job.
    The job of a father is the loud voice that makes children get back in the right track. He must separate babies from the mother. The mother is not made to push her baby away, but the baby must learn to walk away. It is the job of the father to call him away from the mother with his loud voice and his pragmatic point of view and to inspire the baby to walk away from Mommy towards Daddy and the dangerous world outside.
    Hence some mothers will tell the father what she can’t handle with the children. She wants him to do his job and make the children walk straight towards their destiny.
    Teen agers rebel to stop that dynamic to a certain point. They stop speaking to the parents. They don’t trust anymore. They feel singled out facing a team. They enter a war against the team. Home becomes a war zone.

    Your father probably keeps doing his job. They are a team. The team that worked to raise their family. She tells him, and he tells you how to improve. He can’t let go off control; he needs to make you do things a certain way.
    His anxiety and sense of being unworthy kicks in his way to do his job. He shouts and puts his child down, he sees the worst in the least detail. He points at the negative. He might even judge a style as negative when it really is a style that works. He staid stuck in being the father who knows best and he is anxious that if he does not impose his style, his child will never learn.
    He feels too insecure about himself and too unsafe in the world to let go off his child and to admit she has a style of her own. He probably does not feel in control of his life.

    You can try to impose your boundaries.
    Him “what a silly woman, have you ever seen such a stupid thing? That’s not the way to handle the mower”
    Don’t fight it, go with the wave.
    Turn the mower off and let go, from your hands
    and you walk towards you Daddy with a warm smile and you kiss him on the cheeks.
    You, in a gentle tone “ Go ahead the mower is all yours, show me how you do it, I am all eyes and ears.”

    I suppose he can’t do it because he is ill. Keep speaking, holding his hand, caressing it, looking in his eyes, as gentle as possible.
    Say something like:
    “I hear your frustration Daddy. You wish you could do it and you feel useless now that you are ill.
    Daddy I want respect from you, you will never be useless.
    You don’t need to mow the lawn for me to feel the respect from you.
    I want respect and appreciation from my father. I can pay any man to mow the lawn.
    If I am really bad a mowing, I will see it myself, rest reassure of that. I will see the mower broken or the lawn looking awful. I will learn from it and use the mower in a better way next time or I will ask you for advice or I will pay a worker to do the job, but the lawn will look good.
    If I don’t do any of these things it will be my choice too, it will mean my happiness is not in the way a lawn looks.
    My happiness is in receiving respect from my father and when I don’t feel it, it blocks the will to want anything else.

    Daddy if it makes you feel good to give me advices, wait for me to ask for them.

    I appreciate you taught me to walk away from home, to feel secure enough to work and buy my own house. This is the strength you put inside me and I love you for that. You did a good job.
    But that’s it, Daddy, you can stop teaching me to walk, because I am running, I am cycling fast now..

    When you hold on the bicycle from behind to make sure I don’t fall from it, you are stopping me from reaching towards my destiny. You are keeping me back from where the other people are.
    Your critics sound like insults like you holding on my bicycle for ever.
    I do understand you want me to be safe and to move forwards with no falling from the bicycle.
    Your intention is endearing.
    But you got to let me go now, I have been cycling for such a long time and every time you hold me back with your critics, it makes me fall from the bicycle.

    ___You are doing to me what you don’t want life to do to me.___

    You keep grabbing on the bicycle and it keeps making me lose the balance. It stops me in life, throws me on the ground, and I get back up on my feet more bruised still. And more scared of cycling than before.

    We are family Daddy, we interact to recharge our batteries of self confidence with respect. We have no other reason to interact, nowadays. I don’t need you for protection or a roof or food anymore. You did a great job at teaching me how to get these myself. Today, I need you for love and respect. This is why we keep being a family.
    I don’t feel your love right now, I feel pushed away by critics and insults so I will leave.
    When you feel ready to address me with the respect you owe to yourself, call me, I will be happy to receive your respect because I want it and I miss it.
    Bye for now.“

    And you give him a sincere kiss and you leave with no drama every time he gets himself caught in his anxiety and self despising.

    And keep in mind anything you tell your mother or do in front of you mother will be repeated to the other member of their team. They would be divorced if their team was not on anymore.

    Other example:
    you: “what did you do?”
    your father: ”there she goes again, why do you accuse your mother, bla bla bla you always fu**ing do this and that bla bla bla”
    you : “I am sorry Mum my words upset you. I am not thinking you are guilty of the power cut. I feel sad that you feel attacked. I was seeking the info what hardware was being turned on/off when the light went off and my question was not clear.
    Dad thanks for standing up for Mum. It feels reassuring that you take care of my mother.
    I don’t feel good and protected that you yell at me, though.
    I don’t want you and Mum to feel attacked by my words. I feel sad because attacking my parents is the last thing I want to do. I love you.
    Can you help me when you feel attacked? Can you chose to say it calmly so we can clear it up? I feel sad and abandoned when you chose to feel attacked.“

    If he tones down, you take it from there

    If he keeps insulting, you might tell him
    “I love and respect you, Dad, and I apply what you taught me.
    You taught me to not let people walk all over me.
    I don’t expect to hear insults when I am being addressed.
    I am sure you don’t mean to hurt me, but I feel hurt and disconnected when I hear the “…” and “…” words and when bad intentions are assumed in my communication.
    I will stop interacting when I hear the least insult or critic. Let me know when you are ready for a respectful communication. I won’t take any more insults.”
    And you leave the room, or the house itself if necessary.


  291.  #291Dorothea on May 13, 2011 at 12:11 pm

    why didn’t i leave a message? i guess if he wasn’t answering he wasn’t available to talk, and id idn’t want to leave a message and leave it hanging on us both all day long. or worse, text back and forth all day long. i just don’t want to put added pressure on our difficult enough lives. either of us.

    that’s not silly. i’m not silly. i’m only silly for sitting here worrying about it.

  292.  #292Laughing Goddess on May 13, 2011 at 12:27 pm

    I’m feeling really good today. Elated, in fact.

    I’m paying very close attention to my feelings and what causes ups and downs.

    I was feeling triggered this morning and instead of reacting, I say down and did body awareness meditation ala Rori Raye.

    I feel nausous (sp?)
    I love my nausea
    and that feels like tingling in my head
    I love the tingling in my head.

    That process quickly brought me out of my head and back into the now.

    I felt smiley.

    Then I started noticing my little habits that I do that are my “tells” that I am starting to feel out of balance. My ways of avoiding them.

    Such things as snacking
    starting to mental loop about things
    mindlessly cruising the Internet

    These things usually end up making me feel worse after the intial distaction from the feelings of discomfort wear off.

    I feel more aware of when I am starting to slip out of my good feeling place and I am finding more constructive ways to soothe my discomfort.

    I also made a really cool to do list that makes everything I have to do feel fun. Or rather it helps change my perspective so that I see these things as fun.

    Corin: I know I am using feeling good and bad here. It makes sense to me in this context as an indicator of if I’m on my right path.

    I love studying LOA and combining it with Rori’s tools! I feel so empowered!

  293.  #293Femininewoman on May 13, 2011 at 12:32 pm

    Thanks Loneplum I will keep those points for next time something comes up. I have to go through them again to really let them settle into my consciousness.

  294.  #294Femininewoman on May 13, 2011 at 12:33 pm

    Maria try again
    melanie@coachrori.com or rori@coachrori.com
    It might even be helpful to mention you concern here again and address it to Tinque. She might be able to help.

  295.  #295Boomer on May 13, 2011 at 12:38 pm

    Ugh. Bear with me a little longer on my “date” situation for tonight. This man unglues me! Rarely does a guy make me doubt myself like this. He texted me (to my work phone again–I’ve given him my new number several times and have told him clearly that I sometimes don’t keep the work phone with me and that he should use the new number, but that’s splitting hairs, I know)–and he asked if I still “want to meet tonight. Let me know.”

    I feel angry that he’s putting it back on me to “let him know.” I already said yes earlier in the week, right?? Is it not HIS job to follow up with a plan? And he suggested A BAR again. I am concerned that the alcohol factor makes him think he’s gonna get laid. I know I control that–but it makes me sad. (And I get the irrationality of it–I want him to make the plan, but I don’t like it.)

    I feel like disrespecting him the way I feel disrespected and I feel like screaming at him. A riff follows:

    “I do not want to meet a man who asks me out and then does not confirm until that late afternoon! I made other plans!” (Which I kinda did–but Annie’s boyfriend is here and I know he’d rather I not be a third wheel AGAIN.)

    “Do I want to meet? Well when you asked me out on Tuesday, I said YES, so…duh! I thought YOU were making plans!”

    “I feel embarrassed thinking that you just want to hook up with me and that you don’t actually have romantic interest in me. I feel devalued even going into this date.”

    “I feel embarrassed that I like you and have given you another chance and you don’t put much effort into calling, seeing, or contacting me.”

    “I feel like I am taking crumbs. I don’t want to spend my rare free time with a man who treats me like he’s meeting up with a buddy and not like a woman he is romantically interested in.”

    “I don’t want to go to a bar. I want a man who asks to see me plan something nice and personal where we can talk and not have to scream ‘What?’ every time one of us speaks!”

    OK…I feel better.

    But I don’t know what to say to him. A part of me wants to go meet him, but I feel so…like above…embarrassed. Accepting this crumb-y “date” seems beneath the siren I want to be.

    I HATE texting. It feels lazy and like there’s no desire to invest time and clear communication. I want to call him and say some of these things above, but I suspect he is so clueless that he’ll just think I’m a hormonal whack-job when all he wants to do is get together, see a band, have a few drinks. What’s the big deal, crazy woman?? (AND get laid–the bar he suggested is near my home and nowhere near the wine class and his kid’s game–ugh, I feel even sicker now!)

    I want to give him the benefit of the doubt because a) I like him and b) I am naive and hopeful and c) I want a date tonight. And I think I can just go and try to be surprised and have no expectations. If I do not like the way things are progressing, I can tell him what I want and do not want and ask what he thinks.

    Do I call or text back? Wording suggestions???

  296.  #296Brenda on May 13, 2011 at 12:48 pm

    aut viam inveniam aut faciam
    I will either find a way or make one.

  297.  #297Femininewoman on May 13, 2011 at 12:48 pm

    Maria try again rori@coachrori.com

  298.  #298kaitlyn on May 13, 2011 at 12:53 pm

    Here’s the convo right now between my bff and I about our docu project. I don’t know what to do to ease his mind. I’m tired of feeling afraid. It makes me feel stiff when we interview people.

    Me: I’d like to buy a 5d like you have and shoot some of the project myself. Like, when it’s me and another girl subject alone.

    Him: Babe, to buy even just the lens, it’s 3K$. Besides, this is our project. I’m the who made up this whole thing. There are 2 chicks you can interview on your own because I date them before and it’d be weird. But to go off on your own, people are just gonna see it as only your project.

    Me: It is our project. Always will be. But there’s times I’d like to be alone with the subject.

    (true. and i omitted ‘and away from your verbal abuse and making me feel stupid, which makes me feel stiff around the ppl I have to interview’.)

    Him: Well, investing that much $$$ leads me to believe you want to do that more often than sometimes.

    Me: I guess whenvr. Example, on the re-occurring ppl we shoot, sometimes it’ll just be me with them, but mostly it’ll be both of us. I’ve seen many docus shot that way and it’s still a team effort.

    Me: My photo trigger is itching; I want to feel creative. I’d like to bring more to the table than wrangling up subjects and handling the side cam and mics, and interviews q’s.

    Him: Do whatever you want. You seem to know everything.

    Me: I want you to feel proud of stuff I shoot.

    Him: Do whatever you want. Thanks for discussing a plan with me.

    Me: I’m discussing it now as we speak.

    Him: This isn’t about me feeling proud. And again, you TELLING me. You’re not discussing.

    Him: It’s like me showing you how to do something while we’re shooting, and you asking me again and saying you’re just trying to learn.

    Me: Should I have started off with “I’m thing about_____. What do you think?”

    Him: OK, so buy a 5d and figure it out, do whatever, whenever.

    Him: You started off as a statement. You didn’t even think to ask me in a question.

    Him: And btw the creative part is for the editor later. It’s not like I’m being that creative. I’m just making things are technically right during shooting. The creative part comes in later. Creative now is in planning and forthought.

    Me: I feel what you’re doing is creative. I absolutely agree with what you just said, right down to visually and taking into acct our limits with light and audio.

    Him: Fine. Like I said, do what you want.

    Me: I just wondered if there’s times where I could capture more magic because it’s just me and the girl.

    Him: Do what’s best for the docu. If it’s so important to you, go ahead and invest in (names off equip list)

    Him: JUst tell me when and where and I’ll show up, right?

    Him: You never bothered to discuss this with me and there are more variables than making the subject feel comfortable.

    Me: PLease don’t look at this in an extreme way. No docu works like ‘just tell me when and where.’ Esp with our friendship.

    Him: Ok no prob. You take care of everything so you can feel creative, right?

    Me: PLease stop with these extreme measure when you feel angry.

    Him: I want you to do what’s best for you since you know everything and you know whats best for the docu.

    Me; I dont see whats wrong with me shooting some stuff alone sometimes.

    Him: Nope. You have it figured it. You know whats best.

    Him: I don’t like surprises that come out of left field. Which is exactly what you’re doing.

    Me: Ok, then how about I get another smaller cam with the vid specifics we need. And with my own money, I buy us that monitor you want?

    Him: Whatever you want. You know everything. Monitors are $600 btw.

    Me: I would love to get us a monitor.

  299.  #299Dorothea on May 13, 2011 at 12:53 pm

    Boomer, let him lead
    Your response (in whatever medium he initiated): “Yes, I still feel interested in meeting you. Would feel much easier to communicate X way”

    then you go from there. Let him lead, respond with feeling messages and don’t wants.

  300.  #300Dorothea on May 13, 2011 at 12:56 pm

    kaitlyn, yuck, stop engaging him. do the walk away. “being talked to like this feels bad and i am going to go.”

  301.  #301Dorothea on May 13, 2011 at 12:58 pm

    he will say “talking to you like what? you’re the wrong one”

    don’t engage. don’t respond. being told sarcastically over and over that you know everything and calling you a know it all is NOT okay.

    trying to beat that into his head will not work. do the walk away for now and revisit with more feeling messages later

  302.  #302Boomer on May 13, 2011 at 12:58 pm

    Kaitlyn, I’m with Dorothea. I know this project is important to you (and sounds like it has cost a lot of money), but he is very…I don’t know…if it’s exactly as you say, you tried so hard to be mature and to communicate what you want clearly. He is…aggressive, passive-aggressive, psychologically abusive.

    I felt angry just reading it. Is he always like this? or just about this project? A big yuck from my corner.

  303.  #303Boomer on May 13, 2011 at 1:04 pm

    Thanks Dorothea. I sent just that message. But from the right phone 😉

    I have to be a little subversive–it’s just who I am!

  304.  #304kaitlyn on May 13, 2011 at 1:07 pm

    When I tried doing the walkaway, he threatened to destroy the tapes. That’s MONTHS of footage.

  305.  #305Boomer on May 13, 2011 at 1:08 pm

    He said he will call me after work–did not want to bother me at work. Replied that I am home today with a sick child and that the wine class starts at 6:00. I hope he can put it together…call me before 6:00!!!

    You guys are so awesome. I am so in control and rational and mature in my real life….it feels so good to come on here and be a crazy person and just unload my tightly controlled frustrations.


  306.  #306Femininewoman on May 13, 2011 at 1:10 pm

    Boomer if you sense he is clueless it might be good to call him, that is if you could avoid giving away any resentment in your tone of voice.
    “I feel embarrassed that I like you and now I feel devalued. I did say yes and I like to get confirmations early.”

  307.  #307Boomer on May 13, 2011 at 1:12 pm

    Kaitlyn, hed be shooting himself in the foot to destroy them.

    I’d be tempted to call his bluff.

    This does not sound like a nice man, K. Or a good friend for that matter. The memory of my own ex’s similar manipulations (“you try to leave and I’ll take the kids and run away”) just came up in my head. These are threats of a person with a very loose grip on his own control and self-esteem. Please be careful!!!

    Don’t walk away in a huff. Just state your truth, something like: “This feels awful. I want my mutual respect with my business partner, and right now, I’m not feeling it. We’ll talk when we’re both calm.”

  308.  #308Femininewoman on May 13, 2011 at 1:14 pm

    kaitlyn It seems he might be feeling like you are controlling which would be his stuff. I also sense that he feels you might be criticizing his work as if something is wrong with it and you are not happy with it.

  309.  #309Femininewoman on May 13, 2011 at 1:15 pm

    RE 307 I like that kaitlyn.

  310.  #310Boomer on May 13, 2011 at 1:15 pm

    FW, I don’t think I can hide the resentment. I will meet with him and sense the vibe, allow him to lead, and see how I’m feeling about the interaction. If I continue to like him and feel comfortable with him, I will say I want a relationship for myself and that the way the date transpired made me uncomfortable.

  311.  #311Brenda on May 13, 2011 at 1:18 pm


    That is a toxic man. Kenny does a lot of that shit. It’s reverse psychology, and it’s disrespectful and insulting. The underlying message is you would fall flat on your face without me.

    I agree with them about the feeling messages and walk away.

    Did you see my post to you on #113?


  312.  #312kaitlyn on May 13, 2011 at 1:20 pm

    Me: You learn in a snowstorm. You learn in a blizzard. You’re industructable and I admire you for that. For me, worrying about the other person;s reaction gets in the way of me memorizing to learn.

    Him: You are completely full of it. NO! You’re worried that YOU don’t pay attn and now I’m pissed.

    Me: I’ve been wanting to say these things a long time. Not just for our project but for our friendship. It’s been difficult me to put into words and sensitivity for both of us.

    Him: You can’t even be taught things you’ve asked to be taught. You don’t pay attn. Stop blaming it on me. That’s why I’m mad. You make me feel used about talking about Adam, too

  313.  #313Brenda on May 13, 2011 at 1:20 pm


    He is trying to control you. If you walked away, I guarantee you, he would not destroy the work you did together any more than Kenny would end our friendship. Been there, done that.

  314.  #314kaitlyn on May 13, 2011 at 1:22 pm

    I can’t stop crying

  315.  #315kaitlyn on May 13, 2011 at 1:25 pm

    312 no offense brenda, but kenny’s in jail. he ain’t going anywhere. besides, my bff is someone with many choices in life. many.

  316.  #316Femininewoman on May 13, 2011 at 1:25 pm

    kaitlyn I feel this is a clue ” And again, you TELLING me. You’re not discussing”.

    It seems he wants to be spoken with not “spoken at” or told. Maybe a tweak is “is now a good time to talk? I have some ideas about the project and am wondering if you would be willing to consider my ideas?” It is possible that he experienced your first statement as if you had already decided and was just informing him because you are not happy with his ideas. Granted he might be oversensitive about something else or just a bad whatever, but you focus is tweaking your communication so you get guys in general to open up rather than getting their resistance.

  317.  #317Femininewoman on May 13, 2011 at 1:27 pm

    Boomer feeling resentment would come out in your vibe and maybe as not taking care of yourself by not communicating it?

  318.  #318Femininewoman on May 13, 2011 at 1:29 pm

    kaitlyn I am happy that you are crying. Bug hugs to you. You are cleansing yourself and healing.

    There he goes he mentioned Adam again. I sense his issue is with Adam or he might be mad with you because you are so hung up about Adam rather than taking care of yourself.

  319.  #319Femininewoman on May 13, 2011 at 1:31 pm

    Big (((hugs))))) kaitlyn.

  320.  #320kaitlyn on May 13, 2011 at 1:31 pm

    Btw, Sirens, I’m going back to whoring since Adam prolly ain’t coming back. I need the money for this docu. This docu means everything to me. Fsck Adam. Fsck having any boyfriend ever. This docu is my only ticket.

  321.  #321kaitlyn on May 13, 2011 at 1:33 pm

    317 I haven’t even brought up Adam in weeks because this docu and thinking first about what I say to my bff so he doesnt blow up, is the forefront of my mind.

  322.  #322Femininewoman on May 13, 2011 at 1:34 pm

    kaitlyn people might not agree with me on this but I would suggest putting yourself in your friends shoe and imagine how he might feel weighed down with the negative energy that you have been carrying around since Adam left. That might be a clue to his toxicity towards you??

  323.  #323Femininewoman on May 13, 2011 at 1:36 pm

    RE 321 Yeah but he said
    “Him: You can’t even be taught things you’ve asked to be taught. You don’t pay attn. Stop blaming it on me. That’s why I’m mad. You make me feel used about talking about Adam, too”

  324.  #324kaitlyn on May 13, 2011 at 1:36 pm

    “kaitlyn I feel this is a clue ” And again, you TELLING me. You’re not discussing”.

    It seems he wants to be spoken with not “spoken at” or told. Maybe a tweak is “is now a good time to talk? I have some ideas about the project and am wondering if you would be willing to consider my ideas?” It is possible that he experienced your first statement as if you had already decided and was just informing him because you are not happy with his ideas. Granted he might be oversensitive about something else or just a bad whatever, but you focus is tweaking your communication so you get guys in general to open up rather than getting their resistance.”

    Just texted him, “I apologize. What I shouldve done was ask when’s a good time to talk about some ideas I have to share. I didn’t mean to sound controlling in any way.

  325.  #325Boomer on May 13, 2011 at 1:39 pm

    FW, I am feeling resentful right now, and hurt, but by tonight after my wine class (have I mentioned how excited I am about that???), I know my own vibe will have shifted a little to more relaxed and more fulfilled personally. I will be fine, and I think, even excited to see what this guy has to offer. The thing about wine tasting is that you don’t really drink–you swish and spit– so I may ingest just that touch of alcohol to help me relax but not enough to blow my diet or make me feel concerned that I’m going to get slutty 🙂

    I’ve been home all day with a sick kid, so I’ve had too much time to ponder. Had I been at work today and busy, I would not have been this angsty about this date.

    Thanks, all, and wish me luck!!!

  326.  #326Laughing Goddess on May 13, 2011 at 1:42 pm

    Ooooo, I love your last post to him Kaitlyn. That feels like an opening to me. I see potential in this conversation.

    How are you feeling after writing that? I feel curious to hear how he responds.

    I 100% agree with everything FW is saying. I feel very confident in her feedback here, I don’t feed the need to add much more other than I see potential here for a healing conversation.

  327.  #327Femininewoman on May 13, 2011 at 1:43 pm

    RE 324 Now the ball is in his court. Kaitlyn this will show you if he is able to accept you as a human being and acknowledge when you are trying to respect him. We all make mistakes. I would suggest that somehow you focus on being respectful with him so he respects you as a partner. If he cannot respect you when you respect him, it says a lot about his character, nothing about you.

    I have heard a coach say men want respect and appreciation. I would focus on the respect with this guy even if I had to admit that maybe I don’t know how to do it with him and seek his help in helping me to show him the respect he deserves as a human being.

  328.  #328Femininewoman on May 13, 2011 at 1:45 pm

    Good luck Boomer. Just remember to do the tapping using your thumb on your fingertips while on the date or the All That tool to keep yourself in your own body and noticing your feelings.

    I always feel good about you though.

  329.  #329kaitlyn on May 13, 2011 at 1:46 pm

    I guess the other reason why I came off as TELLING instead of ASKING was to prove that i do take things upon my own initiative. A big complaint of his is that i dont take initiative.

  330.  #330Laughing Goddess on May 13, 2011 at 1:49 pm

    Wow FW! My mind feels blown by the clarity and directness of your communication and feedback to Kaitlyn. I feel admiring and so in agreement and a teensy bit envious ;-).

    Wishing I could be so eloquent and also reminding myself that I am in my own way.

  331.  #331Femininewoman on May 13, 2011 at 1:51 pm

    RE 329 Has he given specific feedback about what he is referring to when he mentions initiative?

    Could this current rift have been “taking initiative on his initiative?”

  332.  #332Femininewoman on May 13, 2011 at 1:54 pm

    RE 330 Thanks but what I have read from you here I am sure you can. Also looking from the outside in things tend to be clearer than we all are embroiled in the situation ourselves. Trust me I messed up over the weekend. But I don’t beat myself up. I just review the events and write my speech for next time around. I am learning to love myself and it feels grrrrreeeaaaat. Now I feel like Tony the Tiger

  333.  #333Brenda on May 13, 2011 at 1:55 pm


    RE: #314 – You said, 312 no offense brenda, but kenny’s in jail. he ain’t going anywhere. besides, my bff is someone with many choices in life. many.”

    I feel yucky and angry reading that. What does Kenny being in prison have to do with anything?? We are talking about toxic, controlling, passive aggressive men. They are in palaces, upper class neighborhoods, working on documentaries, in ghettos, and in prisons.

    I feel unsafe relating to you.

  334.  #334Brenda on May 13, 2011 at 1:57 pm


    RE: #319 – Is going back to whoring is a way you say, “I am choosing to go on hating myself”?

  335.  #335Femininewoman on May 13, 2011 at 1:57 pm

    Kaitlyn is hurting and might not be saying the best things for her own good. Is it possible to put yourself in her shoes Brenda. I am sure she means no harm at least not more than what she is doing to herself. People are not necessarily rational when they are down.

  336.  #336Femininewoman on May 13, 2011 at 2:01 pm

    I have a question if my daughter tells me I hate you I feel hurt and disappointment. I am wondering if sharing my feelings in the moment works to bring her close to me. Or should I expect turmoil intially then a softening from her? Any mothers experience that?

    I ask because sometimes people lash out when they are hurting and we tend to defend ourselves but I am not certain that is the time to do it or that it would help the relationship in any way.

  337.  #337Laughing Goddess on May 13, 2011 at 2:04 pm

    Yes, and I get the sense from what Kaitlyn has said that this documentary is very important to her. It seems she wants to find a way to communicate constructively with him rather than label him or walk away.

    I admire her willingness to acknowledge her own part in the toxic communication and therefore guide it in an more healthy direction.

    In my experience, this kind of attitude can affect quick changes in how a man relates to us.

  338.  #338Laughing Goddess on May 13, 2011 at 2:07 pm

    FW: I used to tell my mother that I hated her when what I meant was “I feel unheard” or frustrated or whatever.

    Maybe you can ask her

    “are you feeling unheard?”

    Once you understand how she is feeling an opening might occur.

  339.  #339Femininewoman on May 13, 2011 at 2:08 pm

    RE 337 That is what I want to see for kaitlyn. This is high stakes for her but an opportunity to practice and babystep her way forward. I really hope this turns around for you kaitlyn.

  340.  #340kaitlyn on May 13, 2011 at 2:11 pm


    I hate myself regardless. Whoring just means “hate but now fortified with money so I can pay my bills”

    It just sucks knowing I still have to rely on it for money. Vid equip and time to interview ppl costs both us money. Only his ‘real’ job pays more than mine. Hence, supplementing the project and my rent, car payment, etc with whoring. Yeah, whoring makes me feel like I’m taking 3 steps back in life but it’s either bite the bullet or starve.

    And as far as Kenny, yes such personality traits aren’t restricted to social status. I just figured being in prison, he didn’t have a lot of choices as to making friends on the outside.

  341.  #341Femininewoman on May 13, 2011 at 2:11 pm

    RE 338 Thanks for the suggesting and will keep that in mind. Recognizing the emotion under the words.

    I actually asked because of 333 above. I know we are encouraged speak our feelings in the moment but sometimes I get the sense that things need to be put in context and that our expressing might not come across as we had planned. Or even as an attack, though we are just taking care of ourselves.

  342.  #342Femininewoman on May 13, 2011 at 2:15 pm

    RE 340 “whoring makes me feel like I’m taking 3 steps back “. This suggests to me that maybe it is time to start wondering about what else you can do to take care of your life as well as your feelings. What do you think?

    Kaitlyn it just hit me. You did not use Rori’s “what do you think” at the end of your first statement.

  343.  #343kaitlyn on May 13, 2011 at 2:15 pm

    I feel bad that this entire text convo between my friend and I happened while he was at work. A job he HATES. Once again, I’m selfish and I don’t think. Once again, I don’t pay attention to details. But really, I didnt mean for it to turn into a big thing. I just figured I’d mention getting that extra cam and shooting some stuff off on my own and he’d be like ok or ‘we’ll talk about it later.’

  344.  #344Femininewoman on May 13, 2011 at 2:16 pm

    Kaitlyn, this too “Him: Do whatever you want. Thanks for discussing a plan with me”

    Rori says no planning for romantic dates. I am wondering if he is expriencing this as masculine energy and he wants that role even on this project?

  345.  #345kaitlyn on May 13, 2011 at 2:18 pm

    What good were those honors and AP classes my entire life? What good were those 100% test scores? I became someone stupid. I use my smarts to communicate with johns to get more money, but can’t use them to communicate with my bff who I used to LOVE hanging around. He was the bright spot in my day. Now I just avoid him. Who knows what might set him off? Better to avoid than find out.

  346.  #346Laughing Goddess on May 13, 2011 at 2:19 pm

    Yes FW, as I move forward in this process I am finding that I feel better when I don’t express my every emotion.

    I want to be aware of my every emotion because it is great feedback for myself.

    I find when I express my negative emotions, they can come across as either

    – “I feel bad” with the subtext “because of what you did and you need to change your behavior so I feel better”


    – “I feel bad” with the subtext “and care about how I feel and take responsiblity for myself so I am going to do whatever I need to do to feel better”

  347.  #347Femininewoman on May 13, 2011 at 2:21 pm

    RE 343 Kaitlyn timing yes, context yes. But guess what your awareness is being raised. You are learning and you are thinking. Maybe in retrospect right now but next time you will definitely get closer to what you want to create. This is just a test. You will do better next time. Expecting perfection immediately is unrealistic. Expecting change without the process is setting yourself up for failure. We all learn differently and at different rates, but trust me post 343 shows a lot of learning. You just have to stay aware and change your steps in the dance. I am learning too and I am being gentle with myself.

  348.  #348kaitlyn on May 13, 2011 at 2:21 pm

    343 FemEnergy

    He is masculine role with everything he does. Fine with me, but I don’t want to feel stupid or belittled. It truly screws up with me trying to memorize things.

  349.  #349Femininewoman on May 13, 2011 at 2:22 pm

    RE 346 aaaaahhh another one for my memory files. Thanks a lot for “and care about how I feel and take responsiblity for myself so I am going to do whatever I need to do to feel better”

    Downloading into the memory banks.

    Thank you thank you thank you.

  350.  #350Laughing Goddess on May 13, 2011 at 2:23 pm


    “I feel bad” with the subtext “and I trust that is not your intention. What can we do so that we both feel good?”

  351.  #351Femininewoman on May 13, 2011 at 2:24 pm

    RE 345 kaitlyn that is where you are wrong. We never really learnt how to be in a relationship or how to communicate. The one area of life that is most important the educational system never prepared us for. That is why we are all here.

  352.  #352kaitlyn on May 13, 2011 at 2:25 pm

    my bff said “we don’t have time for next time. what you can do so we can both feel good, is you stop being stupid.’

  353.  #353Femininewoman on May 13, 2011 at 2:26 pm

    RE 348 kaitlyn I have shared before about a boss who uses masculine energy with his boss because the senior guy is so masculine. For me whatever it takes to succeed I am willing to try. Plus it feels so juicy taking the female role regardless of the situation, I feel open to doing it.

  354.  #354Laughing Goddess on May 13, 2011 at 2:27 pm

    Actually #349 is what works best with my LI.

  355.  #355Femininewoman on May 13, 2011 at 2:27 pm

    RE 227 Dorothea I was just throwing it out there for consideration and to get you thinking.

  356.  #356Queenbee on May 13, 2011 at 2:28 pm

    I’m noticing that my thoughts go to him when I’m avoiding starting my next task, or fear of something I want/ need to do.

    Like procrastinating by thinking about him. He’s such a lovely excuse 🙂

    Like a candy bar in between tasks – except that I end up feeling crappy. Especially coz my NVs inevitably take over… that’s when I know I’ve had too much ‘candy’.

    Solution – get on with MY life and stop wasting time thinking about him!



  357.  #357kaitlyn on May 13, 2011 at 2:30 pm

    I’ve no ego in taking any role, male, female, whatever. I just don’t want to have this ever looming fear.

  358.  #358Femininewoman on May 13, 2011 at 2:31 pm

    RE 352 That’s just his NVs talking. LG seems to have some good suggestions that might help. “I feel bad” with the subtext “and I trust that is not your intention” “and care about how I feel and take responsiblity for myself so I am going to do whatever I need to do to feel better”

    Trust, respect and appreciation. Give yourself those first so you can give them to him.

  359.  #359Femininewoman on May 13, 2011 at 2:32 pm

    What fear Kaitlyn?

  360.  #360Femininewoman on May 13, 2011 at 2:33 pm

    Sweet Queenbee Sweet. I like.

  361.  #361kaitlyn on May 13, 2011 at 2:34 pm

    Fear I’m gonna screw up, fear I’m not doing something fast enough, fear I’m doing something wrong that I should already know how to do…

  362.  #362Femininewoman on May 13, 2011 at 2:36 pm

    Fear of failure. I would love Daria and some others to jump in. I would suggest though that you tap on that fear using EFT to release it out of your body. Fear is a powerful motivator and clouds everything we do. I am currently working of my own fear of intimacy and not being good enough by using tapping.

    Did you get the interview with the tapping exercise?

  363.  #363kaitlyn on May 13, 2011 at 2:37 pm

    Fear I’m gonna get that look again like I’m stupid, fear he’s just gonna take the cam or mic out my hand cuz I’m not fast enough or that I’m asking a question I’ve already asked two other days, fear that he’ll grit his teeth to keep from yelling becuase we’re in public, fear of the yelling thats gonna happen when we get back in the car in two hours.

  364.  #364Femininewoman on May 13, 2011 at 2:38 pm

  365.  #365kaitlyn on May 13, 2011 at 2:40 pm

    Fear of failure aint my worry. Fear of failing in front of him is. You don’t understand the reprocussions when dealing with him.

  366.  #366Femininewoman on May 13, 2011 at 2:41 pm

    “that I’m asking a question I’ve already asked two other days” Kaitlyn forgetting is a defense mechanism that you might be using unconsciously to protect yourself. You are not stupid you might be just forgetting deliberately. I am now wondering if there was a time you had to do this because of an experience with your father or some significant other.

    It seems to me that your programming is to forget.

  367.  #367Femininewoman on May 13, 2011 at 2:42 pm

    RE 365 kaitlyn I believe it should be. It is not about him. If you don’t focus on his behavior you will notice how you feel inside.

  368.  #368Femininewoman on May 13, 2011 at 2:43 pm

    Hiding that fear can prevent you from being vulnerable and take care of your feelings in front of him. He might be giving you the opportunity to practice and to bring out his knight in shining armor.

  369.  #369The Lurker on May 13, 2011 at 2:43 pm

    Kaitlyn, I read #297 a bit different than the Sirens do. For me, it’s obvious that he saw your approach to buy your own equippement as controlling, and even worse, as a kind of you taking over the project. Now, let’s not forget this ain’t a lover, but a guy you work with. I understand he provides the equippement and the knowledge. He invests time in trying to teach you the basics. Without him, there is no documentary, or at least no professional one. In this light, I understand his concerns. For him, your idea probably sounded as if you try to jump two steps ahead, essentially taking up his job, instead of focussing on the essentials first. I understand he was p***ed about this. And he clearly showed that in every reply, right from the start. That should have raised a red flag, and that convo should have never dragged on for so long. Sry, Kaitlyn, but you simply pushed on and on even though he already had shut down.

    Still, he didn’t say “well, do the project without me” but said he will be there. This shows he’s really a friend. And I guess the atmosphere can be cleared up again by apologizing plus telling him you dropped the idea of buying a video cam now. He obviously doesn’t like that at all. And what is it good for anyway, he provides all that stuff, and you don’t have the money lying around, Kaitlyn? Get that idea out of the way, and then you may convice him to let you do some interviews on your own, with him leaving the room. Just don’t forget, you need him, he doesn’t need you, so you really shouldn’t try to push ideas through that he rejects.

    Sry, that’s how this looks to me. And I have to say, I would have shut up in the same way your bff did in the same situation. If I help someone and say no to an idea how to do something that’s in my competence, that means no. It doesn’t mean “hammer me with your idea and try to push it through”. So, I understand that guy’s reaction. I’m even suprised he didn’t walk away from that “conversation”.

  370.  #370kaitlyn on May 13, 2011 at 2:43 pm

    Dont know. I avoided my father at all costs because my mom was the fun one to be around. Not some grumpy wop who one little thing could set him off. The only time I liked being around him was Christmas when he was writing out my check.

  371.  #371Femininewoman on May 13, 2011 at 2:47 pm

    Lurker is suggesting learning to take no for an answer. I believe from the male perspective he has some good points, except the convincing part. I have learnt that in life people take roles. When one try to convince the other resists, unconsciously. I have also learnt the best way to ask for what you want is to say it once and leave it. It seems that is the way that works with guys.

  372.  #372kaitlyn on May 13, 2011 at 2:48 pm


    I think this is exactly how he took it. What can I do now next time we talk? What things should I say?

  373.  #373Femininewoman on May 13, 2011 at 2:49 pm

    RE 370 that could translate into fear of intimacy that could possibly be healed by looking at healing that relationship. It is difficult for me but I am trying to do that myself.

  374.  #374kaitlyn on May 13, 2011 at 2:52 pm

    I don’t know when dropping something is just being a doormat. I’ve been feeling like a doormat for quite some time in this.

  375.  #375Laughing Goddess on May 13, 2011 at 2:57 pm

    Kaitlyn: I’m wondering if the way he talks to you is a reflection of the way you talk to yourself.

    The name calling and such.

    In my experience, it has worked this way and once I stop belittling and punishing myself it doesn’t get reflected back to me in my outer world.

  376.  #376The Lurker on May 13, 2011 at 3:04 pm

    Uh, Kaitlyn, sry if my comment #368 may sound harsh to you. I don’t want to excuse this guy’s frequent insults, and I understand that this hurts you. But in the long convo you quoted, he sounded quite reasonable to me. Let’s not forget that his main criticism is that you’re not concentrating enough on the basics. It doesn’t really matter if he’s right or wrong, you need him and can afford him to drop out. So, is it a good idea to try to jump two steps ahead with new ideas, instead of showing him that you manage the essentials?

    Your bff may be an a**hole, he sez so himself, and provoking an a**hole only leads to more of the same. It will only trigger more insults, and increase your fears about working together with him. That’s not helpful now, neither for the project nor for you, Kaitlyn.

  377.  #377kaitlyn on May 13, 2011 at 3:19 pm


    oK SO WHAT SHOULD I SAY AND DO? i’m already predicting a wrath of his yelling i have to endure. i’ll do whatever to have this project and feel safe with him again. if i feel safe, i feel more confident, i feel more competant about learning things.

  378.  #378Laughing Goddess on May 13, 2011 at 3:24 pm


    ” i’ll do whatever to have this project and feel safe with him again. if i feel safe, i feel more confident, i feel more competant about learning things.”

    that is exactly what I would say to him

  379.  #379The Lurker on May 13, 2011 at 3:25 pm

    #371 Well, Kaitlyn, it depends on what your motivation was for your idea about buying your own equipppement. Was this actually a workaround (a costly one) to enable you to do interviews of your own, without the fear about him criticizing you? In that case, you should be honest to him about your growing anxiety. Apologize for getting carried away in that convo, and tell him what’s really on your mind, in a feeling message that shows your vulnerablity. He is your friend, and despite the insults, he cares about you. Ask him for ideas how to get your nervousness under control, about stuff you could do differently. Appealing to his professional advice will make him open up again. Show him he’s the expert, don’t make him feel like you question or ignore this judgment.

    But avoid mentioning your Adam heartbreak more than necessary, he seems to have had an overdose of this. We guys react differently than women on such emotional stories where we can’t “fix” anything, at some point we shut down. So, try to avoid triggering this again. And then ask him about his take on the work ahead, make him feel that you’re both on the project together, with you appreciating his expertise and help. Hope that will work, it’s difficult to tell without knowing more about him.

    Hmm, btw, does he have to fear about his reputation in any way if the documentary isn’t up to his usual standard? Is that a concern that may make him so aggressive at work?

  380.  #380The Lurker on May 13, 2011 at 3:32 pm

    #376 ” i’ll do whatever to have this project and feel safe with him again. if i feel safe, i feel more confident, i feel more competant about learning

    As LG says, too, that’s a great sentence, Kaitlyn! You only may want to avoid using “safe”, there’s a bit of blame in that. You don’t want him to feel like his presence is unsafe for you. How about “and have a good mood at work” instead?.

  381.  #381Dorothea on May 13, 2011 at 3:36 pm

    375 lurker
    i think her bff sounds like a totally sarcastic prick. but that’s just me.
    how do i know? because he sounds like me when i am being a difficult, self absorbed, sarcastic b*tch


    STILL NO CONTACT FROM MY GUY. could it be that he is doing the healthy thing? waiting until the work day is over to contact me?

    it’s so unsettling and uncomfortable. maybe that’s why he seemed like he couldn’t handle ME being healthy and normal about things. cuz it’s freaking haaaaaard

    ahhhh la la la la
    i drank a lot of coffee

  382.  #382Jacqueline on May 13, 2011 at 3:37 pm

    Hi, everyone!

    FW, that felt so cool to have you say…as J would say. haha…

    and I’ve noticed you saying things you are working on lately and I was thinking about how often we focus on one tool – feelspeak or leaning back…and how Rori says they all work synergystically and a true leanback is to take our attention off of “him” and focus on ourselves and then be able to have an open heart. I have a feeling that you are integrating a lot of this together and feel hopeful that it’s going to result in some real breakthroughs for you.

    It’s easy to lean back….sort of easy to have no attachment and/or no expectations…but to do all that and have an open heart? Wowie!!

    Anyway, I am really enjoying hearing your thoughts on the tools and “underlying” things – and I know you are walking the walk as well! Thank you!


  383.  #383Sammie on May 13, 2011 at 3:43 pm


    Thinking back to that video…could be that he is just leaning back now since it took you a few days to call him. The Pursuer/distancer stances have reversed. Also, no message was left…you could end up texting back one of those short feeling messages you were working with yesterday…I’m sure all is fine and he is still in it…



  384.  #384The Lurker on May 13, 2011 at 3:45 pm

    #380 Lol Dorothea!
    But, come on, you’re exaggerating. I don’t think “sarcastic b*tch” is true. And the other points, well, you have some mood swings, but I’m sure that you’ll be more balanced if you continue working on the tools.

  385.  #385Jacqueline on May 13, 2011 at 3:46 pm

    I’ve been at the eyedrs. all day – lol – he said I have a beautiful optic nerve. Wow, I get the oddest compliments!

    Anyway – so Charlie Sheen was going to be replaced by Hugh Grant and now is replaced by Ashton Kutcher….who actually appears to be aging more quickly that Demi – the picture showed him with a comb over! ….
    and I was thinking that if you add Bruce Willis as a choice in their too – you have about every man category there is. And who you’d pick to star in your own sitcom might tell you a lot about who you want and who you are.

    And it’d be fun. So if anyone wants to play…I’m game.

    Happy Friday night girls for the Friday night girls.

    I feel best and safest when a guy calls ahead of time to confirm a vaguely made plan. I won’t participate if they call the day of – it just feels really disrespectful; unless it’s a spur of the moment lets fly to Paris thing…then I’d do it anyway. And even after we’ve got a plan I like another call to confirm the plan the day of. I could’ve changed who I am like six times in two days by then. It’s a fine line and I think a gut feeling to go with the flow and/or to know what will make you feel best about the whole picture.

  386.  #386Tmizz on May 13, 2011 at 3:48 pm

    Daria – From the last post. You said:

    “so our approaches aren’t as different as they seem…”

    I feel the same way 🙂

  387.  #387The Lurker on May 13, 2011 at 3:50 pm

    #376 Kaitlyn, another idea. How about asking him how he dealt with it when he was a newbie in filming documentaries, if he has some tricks you could use. Even if he doesn’t come up with something helpful, that will remind him of those times, and bring back some memories. Hopefully, that will give him more understanding of your situation.

  388.  #388DE on May 13, 2011 at 3:52 pm

    Gosh…someone here trigerred the f**uck out of me…I get reminded of my ex husband …angry human being…nothing pleases him…a chip on his shoulders…addiction to drugs…cocaine…anxiety…sleep disorders……arghhh..I want to smack the shit out of her…right now…

    And weird…i want to do this…to wake her as* up…

    Feeling annoyed…and soooo powerless….and angry…I see potential in people that they don’t see in themselves…but as long as they don’t admit to their drug addiction or whether addiction and want help……there is nothing I can do…:(

  389.  #389Jacqueline on May 13, 2011 at 3:57 pm

    Sophie – I haven’t forgotten you and it sounds like everyone’s caught up in a Siren emergency….

    But as you can probably tell from said emergency – if you stay here, the advice is going to be to not initiate, not “row” the boat….you step back, you lean back and you get really involved in your own life, in your own “production” and you see if by chance he comes around again on his own.

    And maybe – during that time – you start to realize your own worth and that you are worth so much more than this guy is offering. Sounds like he’s playing with the status girl too. Sounds like it would feel bad.

    So, let us know how you are and hang in here with us, and focus on YOU!


  390.  #390Jacqueline on May 13, 2011 at 3:58 pm

    Serena – Hi, nice to have you here! Loved your posts and voice….

  391.  #391Tmizz on May 13, 2011 at 4:09 pm

    Dorothea – I read your comment about PMS on the last post (#578).

    I don’t have pcos, but I do have *wicked* PMS. I can soooo feel your pain. Literally. well, I feel the same kind. Maybe not your actual pain.:)

    It can be so bad. I, too, can often feel “crazy” – and that can be whether or not I realize I am having PMS at the time. I can also get VERY depressed. Not in a “I want to end it all” kind of way, just that I feel SO BAD. It’s hard to describe. And then when I get my period, it lifts – usually. Except when it doesn’t, and that totally sucks.

    But it all varies. For example, this month, I felt hardly any PMS at all. But I’ve been really paying attention to taking multivitamins, and, strangely, taking care of my liver. I’ve been using a few supplements that supposedly clear it out. I don’t know why that would help, except that maybe it’s easier for my liver to clear toxins than before. Idk. And sometimes I take EPO (Evening Primrose Oil), which does help, but I try to go easy on it, because your body can become accustomed to it, and then it doesn’t help at all.

    But I agree with the person you quoted – who, ironically, I think, was a man. Sometimes when I have those really “crazy” PMS weeks, I get the feeling that my body and mind are really just clearing themselves out. Or rather, my mind is clearing out the crap in preparation for my body to do the same thing. I’ve had revelations about what or who needs to be in my life at different times, and I can be ruthless in cutting those things out, but in the end, it usually turns out to be something I need to do for my own benefit. So, even though it FEELS awful, and it’s really hard to explain or justify your seeming erratic moods or behavior to others (or even myself), I trust that there is an overall purpose to it. That in some way, this is my body’s way of serving me, even though I don’t necessarily like it and/or can’t understand why it would be so good.

    Right now I have cramps and feel a little “off” because of my period, but I know tomorrow it will be better.

    That’s the good thing about feelings. They change all the time!

    Hope you’re feeling better…


  392.  #392tinque on May 13, 2011 at 4:18 pm

    “Fear I’m gonna get that look again like I’m stupid”

    Kaitlyn – projection much? he attacks because he’s miserable for whatever reason and because of his own insecurities,


  393.  #393Tmizz on May 13, 2011 at 4:19 pm

    About Rori’s post – If I can, I like to turn it around in my head to imagine that he *is* thinking about me – and sometimes I’m right! 🙂

  394.  #394tinque on May 13, 2011 at 4:20 pm

    “I don’t know when dropping something is just being a doormat”

    Actually it’s empowering.


  395.  #395Brenda on May 13, 2011 at 4:29 pm


    If I were shooting a documentary with bff, and he yelled at me and called me stupid, I would say, “BFF, I love you, and I don’t want to fight with you. I feel extremely disrespected when you yell at me and put me down. I don’t want to feel that way with you. If it happens again, I am going to walk away.”

    Then the next time he called me stupid or insulted me or yelled at me, I would walk away, no matter if we were in the middle of a shoot or what.

    My self-respect and self-love is worth more than money and more than a documentary.

    He treats you that way because you allow him to.

    Kaitlyn, did you see my post to you on #113? I spent a lot of time and energy writing it for you.

    Love, Brenda

  396.  #396Elizabeth on May 13, 2011 at 4:40 pm

    Yes, Kaitlyn, that post from Brenda is an all-time classic and not to be missed, and she wrote it for you.

    Hey Brenda, that guy apparently must have liked the navy seal line, because he wrote back again.



  397.  #397Dorothea on May 13, 2011 at 4:47 pm

    Lurker 383
    Sarcastic b*tch is pretty accurate. I spent the last year and a half of my life working as a director at a very controversial political campaign (and am still involved). Sarcastic b*itchiness is my escape from the associated stress and drama.

    In general, I’ve always been sarcastic. My mom would always scold me for it. I think sarcasm is a great skill and an awesome rhetorical device. But best left out expressing unpleasant feelings.

    I think once I finally quit smoking for a long period of time I will be far less moody. I am on day 12. It also helps when i eat regularly, because i am extremely insulin resistant and my blood sugar affects my mood. An empty stomach to me feels like torture and death. No exaggeration.

  398.  #398Elizabeth on May 13, 2011 at 4:48 pm

    292. LG

    Very nice, Laughing Goddess!

    i feel elated and empowered too! and vulnerable too! whatever we are doing must be working!


  399.  #399Brenda on May 13, 2011 at 4:51 pm


    Re: #395 – LOL! Do tellllll!

  400.  #400Elizabeth on May 13, 2011 at 4:52 pm

    207: Serena

    Great answer, Serena! and welcome 🙂

    I am doing the same, not using man in question for sexual fantasy, because it doesn’t help matters.


    Queenbee , about your question about fantasy in “those” moments..

    Myself I got really cautious about that .
    Used to be that in my relationship that I now know to be imaginary , I fantasized in that way .I got my oxytocin to an image of him. My brain didnt know if he was really there or not , my hormones couldnt tell the difference. I was hormonally very addicted.

    I now am very careful not to do that so as not to become addicted to an “imaginary “lover who is not stepping up for me 🙂

  401.  #401Brenda on May 13, 2011 at 4:53 pm


    RE: #396 – “Sarcasm is the ugly cousin of anger” ~ “Anger Management” (movie).

  402.  #402Dorothea on May 13, 2011 at 4:53 pm

    TMizz, the liver is important for reproductive health. nice work!

  403.  #403Sammie on May 13, 2011 at 4:54 pm

    Hi Brenda,

    I thought your telling of 113 was just wonderful!

    And, by the other comments that were made about it, many others felt really good reading it also. It shows how much compassion you have, which has been apparent. But, here you then turned that compassion around to yourself. Yeah you, Brenda!!!

    And, you may have written it to Kaitlyn, however it seems to me you got such really good feedback from others that it was well worth writing it! And, I thank you for sharing!!!



  404.  #404Turquoise3 on May 13, 2011 at 4:56 pm

    I’m angry with some of the advice being given to Kaitlyn. This man is abusing her. His words, may as well be punches for the impact they are having to her well-being. If this was your sister, mother, daughter, best friend…. would you be telling her that she said something the wrong way, and that is why she got hit? I certainly hope not.

    Kaitlyn, I know you want to do this documentary, but I agree with Brenda. You must value yourself beyond any job. With the lifestyle you lead or have led, I know I’m not coming from the same place, but there is always a choice. I don’t see this documentary being a magic window to new opportunity for you if you are only allowed to adjust a microphone, or do some filming.

    Maybe it wasn’t the best time to talk to him, maybe you do make mistakes… but the animosity and hatred in how he deals with you is absoultely abusive. If this were your boss, it would be harrassment. If this was your husband, there would be whole networks devoted to supporting you. You could file a protection from abuse against him for the way he drives with you in the car, the way he speaks to you. This is a clear example of abuse.

    I wish you would just walk away. Let the project go. Earn money however you have to, to feel safe and get you to a better place. What else might you like to do? Would you ever consider moving and starting over? I’m thinking at 40, it’s time for a new path. This man is so completely toxic, and it affects you. You talk about yourself in such a self hating way, and now I’m seeing where you are learning it. You react like a battered woman, oh it’s my fault, I do make mistakes, I shouldn’t have said…. because you are battered.

    NOTHING you said or did deserves for you to be talked to or treated that way. HE IS WRONG. He is not helping you. You are not learning in his environment. Please please please, consider what I’m saying. You wanting to purchase equipment to help with the project, could have been taken in a positive way. That you are eager to help and learn. That you want to give, to add more to it. If he didn’t like what you shot, he wouldn’t have to use it. You don’t deserve this Kaitlyn. My heart hurts for you.

    I am on my way out to meet a friend for some drinks. I’ll be back later tonight. 🙁

  405.  #405Elizabeth on May 13, 2011 at 5:02 pm

    247: The Lurker

    Lurks, thank you for sharing what you did in that post.
    You make some good points about good manners and earning respect and having patience with impatience in the beginning stages. a good sense of humor, and not taking oneself so seriously helps a lot too.

    I do OK most of the time, but I am a little bit fickle at times as well.



  406.  #406Bliss on May 13, 2011 at 5:05 pm

    Another day

    he ignored my last night , mates over , he got up this morning , and was angry with everyone, cause we are relaxing eating brekky and watching some cartoons, the house is untidy, but hey its home…. so he yells at us all now saying we can’t have tv or xbox till we clean the house.. thats ordinary he is off to play golf..
    And its my fault he is running late to golf cause i didn’t wake him up.

    joy – i hate weekends like this

  407.  #407Elizabeth on May 13, 2011 at 5:05 pm

    398. Brenda

    He says, I didn’t know i was trying out for the navy seals, i thought i was trying to make a date


    i asked him if he was still interested in making a date.

    stay tuned……



  408.  #408Laughing Goddess on May 13, 2011 at 5:08 pm

    In toxic men, the first thing Rori says is that there is a reason we are attracting toxic men, because our behavior is also toxic.

    And by changing our toxic way of relating, they will most likely change the way they treat us.

    I feel good about this advice.

    I find that blaming others rather than taking responsibility for my own part in interactions just brings more and more of the same. It’s a never ending cycle.

    I’m jumping off that hamster wheel and trying a different approach.

  409.  #409Laughing Goddess on May 13, 2011 at 5:12 pm

    Elizabeth: Yes! I am feel so relieved because I am catching myself when I first start to get off-balance and self-correcting quickly. I feels sooo much better.

    Also, just listened to Rori’s interview this month on EFT. I feel so peaceful after doing it.

  410.  #410Dorothea on May 13, 2011 at 5:14 pm

    I am jumping off the hamster wheel too, LG!

    at least in how i interact with him

    mentally, however, i am stuck on the wheel today. but at least I am aware. I am going to do my thank myself exercise and then shift focus to me, even though i am feeling very comfortable in this place where i post here agonizing over him not contacting me, refresh his facebook page a bazillion times looking for a hint about how he’s feeling, and generally fixate.

    funny how the icky patterns actually feel right and normal and comforting.

    fortunately, i am a smart, aware girl, and can turn patterns into CHOICES.

  411.  #411Dorothea on May 13, 2011 at 5:29 pm

    Thank you Dorothea for working so hard on changing my patterns and observing them.

    Thank you for not reaching out to him when I’m feeling churned up inside.

    Thank you for taking this time and space away from him and all the triggers that come with relationships to know the difference between when i need to take care of myself.

    Thank you for eating salad for lunch

    Thank you for doing a great job in those meetings today.

    Thank you for drinking water

    Thank you for making those calls I didn’t want to make.

    Thank you for making plans for me to clean my new apartment tomorrow so i can move in to a spotless heaven, even though I didn’t get help from anyone else.

    Thank you for thanking me.

    Thank you for staying strong and introspective. That is a really brave thing and not a lot of people do it, I notice.

  412.  #412Laughing Goddess on May 13, 2011 at 5:33 pm

    On Rori’s cd she just said 6 months before she met her husband, she realized that all she was seeing was men who were critical jerks because that is what her subconscious was attracting and that she couldn’t even recognize when men were trying to be otherwise.

    Now they are talking about projection and how parents project their dreams on us and then we unconsciously try to fulfill these projections and it can block us from finding love.

    And how if our mothers were super critical of our dads or men in general, we can carry that out as well. Until we unhook from that. And it creates a push/pull in our interactions with men.

  413.  #413Laughing Goddess on May 13, 2011 at 5:35 pm

    “fortunately, i am a smart, aware girl, and can turn patterns into CHOICES.”

    Yes you are and yes you can Dorothea!

    Oh, you inspired me to do some thank yous for myself.

  414.  #414Laughing Goddess on May 13, 2011 at 5:37 pm

    310-600-3458 Susan Quinn’s number

    She’s the woman on this month’s cd and will give a free Eft consultation to anyone who calls.

  415.  #415Dorothea on May 13, 2011 at 5:41 pm

    Kaitlyn – here is a very nice, kind old lady on youtube leading a private meditation on kindness towards yourself. hope this brings you some strength and comfort right now <3

  416.  #416Laughing Goddess on May 13, 2011 at 5:42 pm

    Thank you LG for taking it easy today. I feel relaxed yet we still got a lot done.

    Thank you for feeding me when I was hungry.

    Thank you for not pushing myself to do that job that other people wanted me to do.

    Thank you for doing body awareness exercise when I felt triggered.

    Thank you for making fun to do list.

    Thank you for keeping an upbeat attitude today.

    Thank you for loving me.

    Thank you for listening to Rori and AH.

    Thank you for tapping.

    I look forward to you giving me a bath tonight and cleaning that upstairs room so I can enjoy it more.

    Thank for letting me do what I want to do and not making me meet the whims of others. That feels awesome!!!!

  417.  #417Laughing Goddess on May 13, 2011 at 5:45 pm

    I feel really loved and cared for by you today.

    Thank you for letting me flow through life and be happy. It feels so good to not stress out. It feels so good to listen to my own inner guidance.

    This is the best gift I could ever imagine…listening to my own inner voice. Thank you!

  418.  #418Dorothea on May 13, 2011 at 5:49 pm

    Thank you for washing my face
    Thank you for putting on a tshirt I like
    Thank you for studying about healthy communication so I can be happier and healthier in a relationship
    Thank you for kidnapping me from work early. I felt stifled there with nothing to do. You’re my hero!

  419.  #419Femininewoman on May 13, 2011 at 6:08 pm

    RE 372 Lurker “provoking an a**hole only leads to more of the same.” as in spewing more sheeeeeeeeeeet; can’t help it.

  420.  #420Dorothea on May 13, 2011 at 6:11 pm

    i was taking care of myself and shifting my focus, and i got this sinking awful feeling of anxiety. I started thinking about how much I have been working thru things here and letting everything out, and then i got this scared bad gut feeling that he found it or has been reading it and just thinks i’m a joke or a weirdo for it and is sitting back and laughing at me.

    and i feel it to be true in all of my gut (i have a remarkably psychic gut but have never gotten my anxiety under control enough to accurately determine the difference between anxiety and intuition)

    is this my intuition or is this just the push back from my ‘demons,’ so to speak? maybe the negative voices are kinda fighting for their life now that they’re dying off..one last epic fight for survival and that’s how you know they’re almost vanquished.

  421.  #421Femininewoman on May 13, 2011 at 6:21 pm

    RE 408 Thanks for sharing that LG. It is always easy to project, to blame others and to focus on others behavior. That however changes nothing as we only control ourselves. If we don’t acknowledge and change our own toxicity, walking away just keeps our unconscious stuck and it will find another way/person to play out the same pattern. Been there done that never going back. I am trying to jump off the hamster wheel too. I backtrack sometimes in moments of unconsciousness but I am determined to move forward and I can say I am having some success. I believe I am responsible for everything that I attract in my life so I am committed to releasing blame.

  422.  #422Brenda on May 13, 2011 at 6:29 pm


    RE: #403 – Thank you! I appreciate your comments!

  423.  #423Brenda on May 13, 2011 at 6:33 pm


    RE: 407 – LOL! I look forward to the next episode! 🙂

  424.  #424Brenda on May 13, 2011 at 6:39 pm


    Thank you for listening to the sweet, old lady talk about gentleness, kindness, and compassion towards yourself. She was so soothing and it felt like a step out of the harshness of reality.

    Thank you for thinking about penises! What a wonderful topic! LOL!

    Thank you for cuddling with your dogs!

    Thank you for putting on a warm sweatshirt when I was cold.

    Just trying out this thank you exercise…I feel silly but it’s nice.

  425.  #425Elizabeth on May 13, 2011 at 6:43 pm

    408: Laughing Goddess says:

    “In toxic men, the first thing Rori says is that there is a reason we are attracting toxic men, because our behavior is also toxic.”

    I would like to see that word “toxic” dropped completely, actually. It’s sounds like the equivalent of “bad”. I haven’t found it to be very useful or helpful to look at ourselves or people that way.

    It seems counterproductive to me to label anyone’s behavior, including my own, as toxic.

    But I will question the character of any person i am relating with, who lies, steals, cheats, and then ask myself how or where I might be doing some version of that as well.

    If the person has the clarity of mind to take as much responsibility as i will for my own behavior, then i might continue engaging with them in relating, because I know they are consciously committed.

    “And by changing our toxic way of relating, they will most likely change the way they treat us.”

    Again, LG, with all due respect, this just seems to skew all the responsibility to one side.
    It doesn’t always work like that, there are no guarantees, and it’s not always that easy. For example, J*sus and other spiritual saints and mystics’ goodness were often seen as threats.

    Then, there are the chronic controlling, manipulative people ones that will use that against you, as in, you are responsible for bringing out the angel or the devil in me. It’s all up to you, honey. These are the really deluded ones, from just over the edge to totally delusional.

    Finally, it is not up to me to think I know what any one person’s path is really all about, including my own children, and they may need to be a certain way for a while, regardless of how I am behaving or not behaving.

    “I feel good about this advice.”


    “I find that blaming others rather than taking responsibility for my own part in interactions just brings more and more of the same. It’s a never ending cycle.”

    I think sometimes it is less about blaming others, and more about co-dependency, which places the responsibility squarely on both parties. Simply choosing not to enable certain behaviors by keeping healthier boundaries in place.

    “I’m jumping off that hamster wheel and trying a different approach.”

    Sounds good to me, LG!



  426.  #426Elizabeth on May 13, 2011 at 6:46 pm

    423. Brenda

    Well, you know, Brenda, he may or may not respond, and it’s all OK with me, whatever he does. I won’t try to figure out why or make any assumptions about it either way. Too much thinking about all that stuff gives me a headache!



  427.  #427Jacqueline on May 13, 2011 at 7:00 pm

    I have believed since my EST days in 1979 that I am responsible for my world, and sometimes that belief is to my detriment. I agree with Elizabeth, below – and worse than that, there are people who will just try and set you off because they can. There are people who actually like to argue. There are people who must be right to survive….

    In creating our reality, we have to leave those people out of it, or be forever embattled. It’s pretty easy to tell – as we have an emotional guidance system called emotions – what feels better!

    It’s confusing to me to read here about someone claiming they are such a b*tch (not quoting exactly so as not to single out) and yet they are crying out for love.

    I’m about as new age as they come but there’s my reality and there is reality. And my freaking front door made of metal is REALLY REAL…but it’s also a bunch of swirling atoms. I can sit here and convince myself of that and try to go walk through it…and get a busted nose perhaps.

    Sometimes, I think people try and convince themselves that they have no impact on the situation, or on another – because they don’t want the responsibility or the blame of their on words or actions.

    And sometimes, I think that I created this; what part of myself does it mirror is great – especially in my nighttime dreams.

    And I definitely think a fantasy of someone should be clearly deliniated in one’s mind as a fantasy and not to be confused with a “real” interaction.

    Which is counter to the mind can’t tell affirmation theory – my mind can tell perfectly well.

    And I still like affirmations because they feel good.

    And I like knowing what’s really real….best of all.

    “Then, there are the chronic controlling, manipulative people ones that will use that against you, as in, you are responsible for bringing out the angel or the devil in me. It’s all up to you, honey. These are the really deluded ones, from just over the edge to totally delusional.”

    Shoutout to your eloquence and keeping it real,

  428.  #428Femininewoman on May 13, 2011 at 7:02 pm

    RE 290 Loneplum thanks for this “their hearts are made of fear, shame and guilt since their childhood, the least reminder of guilt will trigger their anxiety.” This never even occurred to me but looking at our history this makes a lot of sense. It reminds of a story my mother told me. Her mother died when she was 11 and she grew up with an aunt who lost a baby after yelling at my mother for something. She was blamed constantly by her uncle for that.

    “Your father uses insults to express his shame and his dislike against himself. He does not think he is good enough.” My NV is mainly I am not good enough never occured to me that he felt that way about himself. I have heard my mother say things that suggested that about herself.

    You are so on the money with “it can be that you are “the” quality daughter,”. Just the other day a friend was saying how shocked she was about the incident because she thought they respected me for what I have achieved thus far and what I have been. I am the second of 4 and the second daughter. The achiever and leader in the family. My sister the first born had a brain tumor at 19 yrs old and have not really succeeded in life since that operation. She made some forward strides afterwards but it seemed she always did something to sabotage herself. It is frightening to think of what might happen to her in the future, even her 23 year old mentions how she worries sometimes about her.

    I have no doubt though that I am his child. He has brachydactyl (6 fingers and 6 toes). It is actually a disease but every one else inherited it instead of me and that was the reason he rejected me. I was born a normal child and have suffered as a result. I have told him once in the past that I appreciate what he has done for me and that I love him. It is frightening to even think of doing it again because of the fear of rejection. I have tried to show it in other ways though especially when he was in the hospital.

    I see how he must be feeling useless. He used to do everything around the house and now he can’t. Even if I have people come over to do work he follows them around and criticizes them and the work. It seems noone can do good by him. He actually recommended getting someone to come over to do the lawn but I have a 12 year old boy who I want to learn to take responsibility. In retrospect I see how choosing to do the lawn and ignoring his recommendation could have communicated that his thinking is flawed.

    Your comments are very insightful. Some of the recommendations are really scary because we have never been physically loving. It is the one thing I long for most of all because I am not used to being touched as a child. I have one memory of him touching me as a child in an affectionate way but I remember that with anger. He was drunk and I know it was the alcohol and not him. I have been tapping on that with Rori’s latest interview. I have come to realize that my overriding emotion was sadness. When I first found Rori I was always angry and did not know why. My son kept asking and my daughter would always react to the energy. I was able to work through that but did not realize that there was so much sadness underneath. Deep profound sadness that I have been working on all week. I can say though that a lot of my relationships are healing. I have become more loving and compassionate towards myself and I admire Laughing Goddess a lot for what she shares here and how she is focussing on herself. I remember years gone by I never even gave a thought to myself. I was exercising like beating up on myself and still was big because I was sabotaging myself with food stuffing down my sadness. I can now look beyond most people’s negativity towards me and their humanity and their hurt. If I can’t I just walk away. It has been difficult though with my parents but I am committed enough to myself to try at least what feels comfortable to me.

    Thanks again Loneplum. I appreciate your feedback.

  429.  #429Jen on May 13, 2011 at 7:11 pm

    I recently joined a social group for singles. A little over a month ago, I met a guy at one of the group’s events, and we sat with a goup of about 8 people and talked for a few hours as a group. One of the ladies I met that night told me a few days later that she thought the guy was interested in me, but I didn’t pick up on any clues at that time and didn’t think about him again. I ran into him again at another event, las Saturday, and we ended up talking again. By the end of the night, he had made it obvious that he was interested in me. He sent me a text that night to say what a great time he had, and he sent me a friend request on Facebook the next day(Sunday). On taht same day, there was another event that we both attended, and at the end of the event he walked me to my car and asked be out for the following Sunday. He had mentioned the night before that he would be out of town that coming week for business, and he brought it up again when he asked me out. He said he would be back in town on the Sunday he wanted to take me out.

    So, there was another event on Wednesday that I went to, and he was there. I immediately got a funny feeling about seeing him because he was supposed to be out of town. He was on the phone when I walked in, but he waved to me. Since I didn’t want to invade his privacy, I walked over to talk to someone else that I knew. He could see me from where he was, and I thought that he would come over and say hello when he was off of the phone.

    He never came up to me, and I resisted the urge to approach him because I made up my mind to not seem like I was chasing him. Also, the event was a group dinner, and I thought he would sit with me at the table if he wanted to talk. He ended up sitting at the opposite side of the table.

    We did end up talking for a minute or two when everyone was leaving the restaurant, but he didn’t walk me to my car.

    I told one of my guy friends about all of this to get his opinion, and he said he thinks the guy is a “player”. He said that if the guy was really interested in me, he would have approached me when he was done with his phone call. He also said that if his trip had been canceled or ended earlier that expected, he would have explained that to me.

    I think he’s probably right, but there is still a little doubt in my mind. My friend thinks that I should just do nothing and act like it wasn’t a big deal the next time I see him. I don’t want to do anything that is going to make the situation worse, because both of us are heavily involved in this group and will run into each other eventally.

    What do you think is the best way to handle this?

    So, there was another event that I went to that week

  430.  #430Femininewoman on May 13, 2011 at 7:19 pm

    RE 429 Jen he might be physically attracted to you but he is a stranger that is acting accordingly, is my opinion. I agree that you should act it was no big deal but it should not be an act because I would hope that you will stop thinking about him. Nothing really happened between you both aside from conversations that we all have with normal everyday people. If you get the opportunity I would encourage you to flirt with him to keep inviting him in but right now it seems to me like you are dealing with a stranger.

  431.  #431Femininewoman on May 13, 2011 at 7:25 pm

    RE 420 Dorothea that sounds again to me like drama which seems to me like a pattern with you. I have heard Rori’s Interviewer say when we drop the drama guys will have no one to hook into their drama so they end up just dropping it. It seems your brain likes that and I am wondering if your mother was dramatic? The Interviewer this month suggests some guys get hooked to women with the drama because they were conditioned by their mothers so that is what they are attracted to. Have you ever explored that in your life?

  432.  #432Diane on May 13, 2011 at 7:26 pm

    Wow, this is really hard, long distance, just “reconnecting” last couple months after a break…I talk to him maybe once a week briefly…last time together 6 wks ago…I think he cares about me, so much in the way (for him personally, work, $) but really hard not to start imagining things. He is coming to visit coming week. I have such strong loving feelings, but just don’t know where he is…but he is so “concrete” he probably doesn’t see the issue in not calling regularly, altho once upon a time we talked a couple times a week for hours…so how do I ask for something more? But it is true, he probably doesn’t feel the critical “need” to talk often…how do I change that? Since economically we can’t see each other often yet…I wish I could have some reassurance he has feelings….

  433.  #433Brenda on May 13, 2011 at 7:30 pm

    I feel lonely and unmotivated.

  434.  #434Brenda on May 13, 2011 at 7:39 pm

    “If you wish to understand yourself, you must succeed in doing so in the midst of all kinds of confusions and upsets. Don’t make the mistake of sitting dead in the cold ashes of a withered tree.” Emyo

  435.  #435Brenda on May 13, 2011 at 7:42 pm

    “Act as if what you do makes a difference. It does.’
    William James, psychologist

  436.  #436nanceen on May 13, 2011 at 7:45 pm

    Diane as fast as you can, get coaching from Rori or get reconnect your relationship or what she recommends.

    I think your situation is so important now and fragile that you should get the very best.

    please, please purchase one of her programs. This blog is good but you may not get the help your need and you may not get enough in time. I want to see you spending your time getting real concrete help from her stuff, not on this blog hoping for an answer.

    you can even return stuff after 30 days. please, please purchase one of her programs.

  437.  #437nanceen on May 13, 2011 at 7:47 pm

    Diane, my LDR which reconnected after a long time just failed or is failing. I was not able to get help in time. You sound like I did two years ago. I dont want someone else to have a broken heart.

  438.  #438Mel on May 13, 2011 at 7:50 pm

    “My freaking front door made of metal is REALLY REAL…but it’s also a bunch of swirling atoms. I can sit here and convince myself of that and try to go walk through it…and get a busted nose perhaps.

    Sometimes, I think people try and convince themselves that they have no impact on the situation, or on another – because they don’t want the responsibility or the blame of their own words or actions.”

    I love reading your posts! They are always thought provoking and make me reflect on my own thoughts and actions.

    Your door example makes me think about how there are often two realities, both of which are correct. Science can be proven… yes, the tiny molecules of metal are fluid and moving. There is truth in it. But there is also truth in the fact that the door is perceived by me as a solid unmoving object. We can really only make decisions based on what is real to US, but this doesn’t make another person’s reality (which may be completely different) any less true.

    It makes me think of being more understanding. Because I can’t really know why people do and say the things they do. They might be experiencing situations entirely different than I would.

    I can’t think of how many times I have tried to “understand” where he was coming from only to smash myself into that metal door. Maybe he’s not as stubborn and unmoving as he appears to be though. Maybe deep down he is processing… changing at a microscopic level. I can’t know that.

    I’m by myself tonight. Husband’s still at work. But this time I don’t feel so lonely. I feel myself changing. I feel more peaceful. I deserve to be happy again. 🙂

  439.  #439nanceen on May 13, 2011 at 7:53 pm

    Jacqueline why do you keep talking about my exhusband?

    “there are people who will just try and set you off because they can. There are people who actually like to argue. There are people who must be right to survive….”

    Seriously there are some books by Frances Schinn (shinn?) I think you would love. With a little searching, you can find them free online. One book she wrote is called “the game of life and how to play it”

  440.  #440Brenda on May 13, 2011 at 7:58 pm

    I am so enjoying this softspoken lady that was recommended to Kaitlyn about kindness:


    She is a psychotherapist, and she is so sweet and gentle! I find her voice alone to be very healing, but also her words!

  441.  #441Dorothea on May 13, 2011 at 8:00 pm

    Brenda…i’ve been feeling unmotivated too. do u want to be productive with me right now? we could both go off for 30 minutes and report back what we did:) it would feel good if i had something external motivating me.

  442.  #442Brenda on May 13, 2011 at 8:06 pm

    About Dogs:

    “He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion.” – Unknown

  443.  #443Lilybelle on May 13, 2011 at 8:09 pm


    I am hugging you again. I admire your strength and conviction to heal all the pain from your childhood and father.

    Your little girl needs a great big hug and lots of love. I know you are making sure her needs are met.

    I feel sad knowing that you have shed lots of tears this week but I also know, having learned this from you, that they are healing at it’s finest.

    Big hugs!!!


  444.  #444Brenda on May 13, 2011 at 8:11 pm


    You got it! I’ll check back in with you at 40 minutes after the hour, which for me is 11:40 pm. Thanks!!!!

  445.  #445Brenda on May 13, 2011 at 8:11 pm


  446.  #446Brenda on May 13, 2011 at 8:12 pm

    I wanna be this “just us friends” lady! She is awesome! I love her!

  447.  #447Dorothea on May 13, 2011 at 8:13 pm

    FW, i love the various stuff you give me to consider
    yes, my mother was extremely dramatic. like…put-a-razor-to-her-wrist-and-tell-me-at-9-years-old-that-she-is-going-to-kill-herself-because-i-don’t-love-her dramatic

    i called him and left a message. enough was enough. he called me back and we talked for a while. i stayed in touch with my feelings and there was no drama as a result. a LOT of nerves and uncomfortableness, but NO drama.

    it felt awful and hard, but i feel grateful that i stuck to a better, healthy way of talking and relating now that it’s over and i am not recovering from drama. and also, i feel supported and heard by him. and i took care of myself and decided for myself that it would feel good to get off the phone and proceed with my night after we’d been on the phone for a while.

    it felt soooo scary and nervewracking and uncomfortable, but i did it! and i feel whole, in tact, here with myself and good, instead of defeated by an endless drama.


    i want to do backflips!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    i so can do this!!!

  448.  #448Lilybelle on May 13, 2011 at 8:14 pm

    Tonight, I am reflective at best.

    I feel sad…crying sad.

    At first, I was feeling angry and frustrated. And then, I really sank into the way I was feeling and figured out that I am not angry and frustrated. I am just damn sad.

    I miss my best friend. And I feel sad because I miss him and sadder knowing that we will never find our way back to that place of friendship.

    I feel even sadder about it because I had absolutely no control over it. I didn’t have a choice and I didn’t do anything to trash it.

    Crying tears of deep, deep sadness…


  449.  #449Dorothea on May 13, 2011 at 8:14 pm

    Sweet, brenda, i’ll be back at the same time! thank you:)

  450.  #450Serena on May 13, 2011 at 8:36 pm

    Thanks Jacqueline and Elizabeth,

    I have a question to ask about texting vs phone.
    A guy I have dated a few times texted 72 hours ahead to ask if I wanted to go to a gallery exhibition then lunch on Sunday. I answered yes by text then realized I was a feeling uncomfortable because I would rather he called me !

    He had texted back and said he would pick me up , ie firm plan, plenty of warning, he picks me up , he pays , he is perfect gentleman etc , and here am I biaatching about him not doing it by phone!

    I feel irritated with myself for nit picking but I feel irritated he didnt call me esp as i had been sick for a while and he knew that.

    I wonder if I am trying to sabotage this possible relationship? We are friends only at this stage with a little bit of kissing only..uuugh

    Feeling message suggestions?

  451.  #451Serena on May 13, 2011 at 8:40 pm

    Brenda ,

    I love this dog quote.
    I feel like I am responsible for my dog , even to where to live, what job to take etc..
    Its an issue for me soon if my doggy is still with me when my youngest leaves home.
    How do you handle that?
    It feels crazy making life decisions around a dog, but he feels like one of my sons in some ways 🙂
    Also I loved your deer story Brenda , I cried for yoy then I realized it was a great healing experience for you !

  452.  #452Dorothea on May 13, 2011 at 8:51 pm

    ‘i’ve always felt uncomfortable accepting dates in texts but would feel delighted to hear your voice:) what do you think?’

    is an option next time he texts you to make romantic plans.

    the other option which you could start doing immediately is stop texting back, either entirely or to accept plans. something the women here helped me with recently is making your own boundaries and honoring them. which means since u dont want to text with a guy, you, you know,, don’t actually do it.

    if that irritated feeling you’re having is based on this faulty assumption that if you don’t tolerate making plans in text you might not get any plans with him at all. but he WILL call u, or he’ll text and be like ‘hello?’ and then u let him know, “hey, been feeling burnt out on texting. would feel so good to hear your voice:)” and he will call u.

    hope this helps

  453.  #453Dorothea on May 13, 2011 at 8:54 pm

    I heated up some soup and I put all my clean clothes and linens away. Thanks, girl!
    Where you at? I’m down for another motivational round of productivity accountabilibuddy.

  454.  #454Brenda on May 13, 2011 at 9:13 pm

    I was all relaxed after listening to just us friends lady. I went out to walk my dogs, and my landlady had left a couple of notes in my car, which left me in a fuming, adrenaline rage!

    I am moving out by the end of the month, because it wasn’t working out and she asked me to 6 months in advance. No problem.

    I am unable to pay the May rent, because if I do, I won’t have any money to put down on a new rental. I politely told her I am unable to pay it, and now she and her lawyer exhusband are saying that if I don’t pay the May rent, I have to be out by May 21st, and they will change the locks.

    I have no lease, because they belong to a neighborhood association that doesn’t allow tenants. I have a finished basement apartment. So they have no legal standing. Their letters are just smokescreens, and I know it, because I know enuff about the law to know I could stay here legally another 4 months if I needed to.

    Nevertheless, I have agreed to be out by May 31st, even if I am homeless, out of respect for their 6 month notice.

    To top all that off, now she is claiming I still owe her for half of June’s rent from a YEAR ago! Hello? She never mentioned it before! And I put myself at risk by paying cash, at her request. She didn’t want any paper trail because of the neighborhood association.

    So I texted her:

    B: I know my legal rights. Would hate to see this turn into a legal situation. When you want to remove a carpet that’s held down by staples, do you need a sledgehammer? Or are you TRYING to get the carpet to turn into concrete? And to borrow another analogy, you can’t get blood out of a stone.

    I PAID THE FULL RENT LAST JUNE! You waited a year to accuse me of something for which you gave me no receipts for? After I paid you cash as requested at my risk? The neighborhood association would love to hear about that! But the FACT is I paid the full rent last june.

    I am shaking with both anger and fear, and I feel hunted. I HATE dealing with situations like this. Nothing I have done in the last 1.5 years living here is good enough for her. So I have to choose if I want her angry at me or if I am going to survive….hmmmm??? NO-BRAINER!

    Time to go listen to just us friends lady again!

  455.  #455Brenda on May 13, 2011 at 9:14 pm


    BTW, good job on what you got done! I’m just dealing with my emotions now, and probably some online legal research. This guy is a lawyer, so it’s a joke! He knows and I know he has no legal ground to stand on to kick me out. He’s trying to intimidate me.

  456.  #456Nanceen on May 13, 2011 at 9:26 pm

    Brenda, they cant do anything,

    If you go to your local courthouse, ask at the clerks office what is the procedure for eviction.

    I know in CT I have to fill out a written notice and have a marshall hand it to them. Then there is a certain amount of time and this and that, the point is you probably can stay awhile. Personally I would hang right onto your money for your next,place.

    That was a good move to threaten to drag the association into it. After you leave she will probably try and take you to small claims court but I know you can handle that. She will never get anything.

  457.  #457Brenda on May 13, 2011 at 9:43 pm


    Thank you! It’s not that I was refusing to pay the last month’s rent in an aggressive way at all! I have communicated with feeling messages throughout my interactions with her. She is just terrible to work with. She just doesn’t get it.

    I have learned the hard way: desperate times take desperate measures. I tried before to please people, and it ended me up stranded in Arizona! Now I take care of me.

  458.  #458gina on May 13, 2011 at 9:47 pm

    Why has he ignored me?? that is what I’ve been wondering, but I just don’t believe that he is oblivious. am i wrong. Just now, after 2 weeks of no contact, and the last time we talked I said I wasn’t up for an imaginary relationship, and he said he’d call me back to finish the converation – he just texted “Sorry I’ve been so distant. My life has been so bananas. I hope you are doing great!”

    grr… I’m not responding.

  459.  #459Alicia on May 13, 2011 at 9:53 pm

    OMG.. I got flowers!

    At work today from Gregg!!! And it was a total suprise. He is just another guy a talk to every now and then. For heavens sake.. this blog has really turned me around. lol….!!

    My second boquet from two different guys in the past few months! AWESOME! Only one other time in life over ten years ago had I recieved flowers. lol
    So, from two different guys in the past few months is awesome progress. And I do like recieving.. haha. Does make me feel special.

    So glad things are turning around.. Yippy Skippy. 🙂