Will You Fall Apart If You Don’t Think About Him

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I have a client, who like I was many years ago, is brokenhearted and obsessed with the man who pulled away from her and hurt her.

I know you’ll identify with her story, because it takes to an extreme something we all do. This client (I’ll call her Joanne) is a fabulous person – as I know you are – and sometimes that makes everything even MORE CHALLENGING!

Changing ourselves to thinking more about US is easier if we’re self-involved, narcissistic, uncaring, selfish people. But we’re not. You wouldn’t be here working like this if that was who you are.

And when we’re a good woman – it’s challenging to tell the difference between being a good, caring human being and being a controlling, overfunctioning, needy human being because giving to someone else, even thinking ABOUT someone else is the best way we learned to survive emotionally.

Most of us were so taught that it’s better to give than receive, and most of us have lived with and known narcissistic people who demanded much of us, who only seemed to love us when we were taking care of THEM – physically, emotionally, spiritually – that we can’t even feel whole unless we do that.

When we’re stressed – we go to giving. When we’re afraid – we go to obsession. I’m very big on redoing dreams and gaining “mastery” over certain things. Basically redoing things in our imaginations…but NOT in order to gain control over them or feel “closure” around them – but to sink down into the feelings we’re hiding from and TWEAK our thinking and actions for next time.

There’s a big difference between the work we do as part of the process of HEALING ourselves – and what we do that actually STOPS our progress.

If, when you feel afraid or angry or guilty – you go to worrying about or trying to “fix” another person (especially a man you have feelings for and about) – you are going to your “default.” You are going to your “defense” against what you REALLY, most DEEPLY feel.

I want to really lay this out – You are not defending against HIM, and what you’re afraid HE might do (you can just stay AWAY from him for that) – you are defending against YOURSELF. You are entering into war with yourself. You are literally bumping up against yourself.

So – when you start to obsess about a man – for WHATEVER reason) – see if what I’m telling Joanne works for you:

“Rori, I am still having continuous thoughts about him sinking and escalating into his addiction. Joanne”

Joanne’s long-time man drifted away from her, and then suddenly started acting “peculiar.” He left her and went back to an “ex” who was bad news all around. An abusive, difficult woman. And there he stays…while barely maintaining a friendship with Joanne.

There are other things in play here…but I wanted to make this as general and universal as possible.

Essentially – your man leaves you and gets involved with a horrible woman. And stays there, even though he says he loves you, even though he visits and hangs out, even though he calls. Until he stops calling and you feel even worse than before. You are torn between hating him and worrying about him being with this horrible woman, and perhaps drinking, and even worse.

You become obsessed with thinking about him and how you could have averted this tragedy. You want to know what you did wrong – and you want to know what happened to HIM. Pretty soon you’re feeling like an angel of mercy, and you want to save him from himself and return him to his normal, reasonable, responsible, loving-you self. Only he isn’t cooperating.

In terms of personality typing with the Enneagram – this would be type 2 – the Giver. And another type that needs to encompass everyone into a community. (I’ll have to ask my daughter, she’s the expert in this…) A lovely thing, yes…but laced with a need to control. Laced with the idea that the only way you can get anything from anyone is to give. To help. You are the “saint” type – and I recognize this in so many of my clients – and also in my own family.

Eventually – this backfires on you. Eventually – you become consumed with attempting to control other people’s lives in order to stay stable yourself. It’s as though you will lose yourself if you can’t control and help them.

This would work for you if you were a nurse, or in animal rescue, or the red cross. This is what nuns traditionally do – help others and bring people to God, and deny many of their own human needs. But this will not work in everyday, regular human relationships, and definitely not romantic love.

I believe this is a construct of your defense system – and people who suffer a traumatic breakdown of this defense system have what’s known as a “nervous breakdown” – where the defenses just fall and you’re unprepared for it.

I believe you are grasping at straws – at this obsession with this man and the need to HEAL him – in hopes that if you could heal him, he would wake up and want to be with you (also the unselfish wish to heal is there…so it makes it very confusing for you to tell the difference).

I would like you to spend money on Virginia Feingold Clark at www.ItsNeverTooLateToMarry.com, to see if you can take the edge off this, and then we could treat our coaching as therapy, or you could also engage a therapist for support where you live. Circular Dating is meant to be therapy.

It’s meant to bring up these patterns so you can slowly dismantle them without ‘breaking” them suddenly. Circular Dating is meant to be a “mindfulness” process…where you slowly undo trauma reactions.

I believe this obsession and your need to include and heal others is part of a trauma reaction – the way you stay afloat.

And what we want to do is to allow you to sink – without it feeling bad.

There’s no way to do this without you going through some periods where you feel “selfish” – and feel guilty and bad about that. There’s no way to go through this without connecting with your anger – and that’s going to bounce you back to this “helping and including” defense.

Peeling back layers of trauma reaction can be chaotic. You are feeling chaos now, and so you’re falling back on what you know – obsession with helping someone and controlling them, and making them be what you want them to be.

I know you can do this – but it’s a journey. Go read “Eat, Pray, Love” if you haven’t already – to give you an idea of what kind of journey I’m talking about here. That woman was supremely messed up (and still may be – but she’s HAPPY and happily married!) – and even in the face of being in an ashram in India she stayed messed up – but she DID work through it eventually. She got an “aha” and was able to turn around her life and her mindset. And you can, too.

Love, Rori

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  1.  #1Sherry on January 27, 2010 at 5:57 pm


    I am on day 9 of a real break up from an imaginary relationship. I am having so much trouble controlling my thoughts. I know I am obsessing. I even broke down and text him last night (which he ignored). I am so used to talking to him several times a day (for the last 4 years) that I don’t know what to do with myself. Yes, I am trying to circular date myself, and I also have a job I go to, but I cannot stop my mind! I spend more time during the day thinking about him than any thing else. How do I make it stop?

  2.  #2Lucy on January 27, 2010 at 6:27 pm

    I have the same question: how do I stop the obsessive thoughts? I do not know whether or not my “imaginary relationship” still has potential . . . communication is getting sparser and sparser, and I don’t know if it’s a temporary withdrawing on his part (stuff he’s dealing with, etc.), or if he is really losing interest in me. On some level, I know it doesn’t matter which one it is — I just need to stop thinking about him, period.

    But I also would like to know if it would be a bad idea to somehow ASK him which one it is, so I can know if it’s time to grieve over what I am losing (even if it wasn’t a real relationship, I AM losing some interaction that felt really really good to me).

  3.  #3Daria on January 27, 2010 at 7:11 pm

    hey… im the type that needs to encompass everyone into a community. yes yes yes. that sounds lovely actually.

  4.  #4Nancy on January 27, 2010 at 7:13 pm

    I feel amazed. I’m sitting in a bar/ restaurant in Maui , alone and at the bar. This is a place my guy and I have frequented in the past. I think this is the first time I’ve ever done this! I haven’t seen a man I feel like smiling at and I’m afraid to do it anyway, but just being here, out with people, with men around is balancing and calming me, even tho my man ostensibly broke it off last night! This stuff works!

  5.  #5Daria on January 27, 2010 at 7:17 pm

    ok ok i know i know i am working on it. i love me how i am

    i feel annoyed when i hear from people and healers that “you cant MAKE someone better’

    well you sure as hell CAN make someone ill.

    like if i cut you with this knife that will make you ill, or if i poison you, etc etc

    so if i can MAKE someone ill, then i bet i can MAKE someone get better

    law of yin yang huh


    i refuse to lose

    i dontn want t o have a breakdown


    what the magic doctor lady say today

    dont worry, be happy


  6.  #6Daria on January 27, 2010 at 7:18 pm

    yay Nancy!

    I was about to go on my own to a bar for the first time, but now a girlfriend called and wants to come. soo i will go alone some other time


    Maui sounds great

    me and my mom went out to eat together

    and she CD’d with people

    shes not afraid of people hehe

  7.  #7Rori Raye on January 27, 2010 at 9:21 pm

    Nancy – good for you!! Love, Rori

  8.  #8Rori Raye on January 27, 2010 at 9:26 pm

    Melanie – What you’re talking about here is “closure” – and you know I don’t believe in that. On the other hand, I’m all for experimenting. If you ask him why he’s withdrawing, he’s unlikely to tell you the truth – he may not even know the “truth.” Can you put it in Feeling Messages and see how it goes for you? If it brings you peace and feels good to pursue him this way, then experiment. And the best way to deal with this is to be strong on the inside, soft on the outside the next time he DOES communicate. Use Feeling Messages, lean back and see how that goes. The best experiment is the one that draws a man in, rather than chasing after him. Love, Rori

  9.  #9Rori Raye on January 27, 2010 at 9:30 pm

    Sherry – obsession is universal. There are many, many Tools to help you. Here are two: – 1. make a “Channeling List” – at least 20 good things to do – small things – that you enjoy so much you feel totally immersed in them (painting, drawing, cooking, playing with makeup, cleaning out drawers, moving furniture…) and then just do them when you find yourself thinking of him. 2. Gently take yourself back to the present – touch things – be where you are in your BODY instead of your head. Please chime in here with things that help you when you’re obsessing…Love, Rori

  10.  #10Nita on January 27, 2010 at 10:47 pm

    Rori I love this blog about obsessing you are sooo right! I have done alot of the heart connection exercises: talking to objects and loving them, the voice shu away, and taking the gunk out of my stomach (forgot the technical name haha). I have also talked in therapy about my general negative thoughts and how i feel trapped in negative memories ( about men and non man related). All I can say is that all of these processes have made me feel right now so alive and relaxed! I am sympathetic to myself! its ok that i am how i am and that i messed up in the past…i love myself! i feel like im beautiful and alive. its funny but thinking about how obsessed i was about a bad guy situation and other negative things was…..cute!haha i feel cute because they were such a big deal to me and its ok. this may sound strange but i wondered if the there was extra light fixtures at work or something because everything i saw was brighter!colorswere so vivid its like i was experiencing life through my senses , more real more GROUNDED. i must have really been in lala land about negative thoughts because this feels so good and different. i hope i continue my journey of self awarness, thank you sooo much. i feel so greatful for the hear connection program, and for just living life and realizing that the things that i was doing to myself to protect myself (negative thoughts) were a block from loving life and enjoying it to the fullest.

  11.  #11Debra on January 28, 2010 at 6:54 am

    I like to exercise to get my mind off things, or even if I’m thinking about them…I can’t think as hard about it. I feel great and look great after wards also!

    If I catch myself thinking about a guy from my past that does not want to be in a relationship with me, I try to remember how I deserve to be happy and loving myself is more important than seeking approval and acceptance from someone else.

  12.  #12DocK on January 28, 2010 at 7:43 am

    Yup! I think it is the rare woman that has never ever obsessed over some guy. I know for myself that it was the times of just completely not understanding what the heck had just happened that left me feeling absolutely distraught and shaken to my core. It fed so many fears not only about ‘WTF?’ (I love swearing in acronyms) of this present experience but feeling frightened that I would go through it again in the future. I think that was part of the obsession for me – not trying to get the guy back but wanting to understand so that I could CONTROL the future for prevention’s sake.

    A man in my past, “B” was – and I am using his words to describe himself, not mine – “a vindictive SOB.”

    Everyone always thought it was something about the sex with us that kept us together (he had his fetishes and I was awfully doggone accommodating) in spite of the turbulence but for me it wasn’t – it was the conversation. I like intelligent men.

    It is a long story but the fact is that he let me kiss him goodbye one morning as I left for work and then he called me at work to tell me he had left – as in loaded up the car with his stuff – moved out, gone. (at least he called THIS time – meaning there was another time and you know, fool me once, shame on you fool me twice….) He didn’t really give me a good explanation and I felt like a lunatic. I can remember going to the bank and just the look on the teller’s face – I wasn’t sobbing or anything – but I know that I just looked like Exhibit A: “”walking grief.” I went to a psychiatrist’s office that day and they came out and took one look at me and took me without an appointment.

    I obsessed about “why” and “where did he go/move” and whatever. Took me awhile to get through that. I suspected it had something to do with his drug situation. Even coming from a “bad” neighborhood I was little miss no drugs but most other people used them and I didn’t judge them. When I realized he used cocaine I didn’t think it was a big issue because it was the 80’s and other people I knew that had never done drugs were doing it. BUT he started to sell it and the night before he left he was angry that I wouldn’t help him package it up.

    Seven years after this happened, he tried to find me. Went to my mother’s house and she called me to tell me (I had since moved to another state). he left a phone number for me to call – she said he told her he wanted to apologize. I told her that if she spoke to him again to let him know that I accepted his apology but I had no need to speak with him. I told her that whatever I had to come up with in my own mind and heart to get myself through that might actually be kinder than the truth so I didn’t need it anymore.

    B had moved out in 1988 and tried to contact me in 1995. He contacted me again through my website around 2003. I finally allowed him to say what he had to say via email but it was clear that although he had gone to therapy and apologized profusely for what he had done and how he had treated me – he was still pretty much the same. I ended up deleting and ignoring all future attempts at contact.

    This past Christmas he sent me a holiday card to my office address.

    Who’s obsessing now?

  13.  #13Simply Shannon on January 28, 2010 at 8:11 am

    I’ve been obsessing about my feelings lately and thinking and problem solving this “do I love him?” thing to death. Today I got TWO messages directly related. Well actually THREE if you include this post!

    1) Joel Osteen email:
    TODAY’S WORD from Joel and Victoria
    It’s good to be passionate about your dreams, but did you know a dream can become an idol? If that’s all you think about and you’re not going to be happy unless it happens your way, that’s out of balance. The fact is, sometimes you have to put that dream on the altar.

    Are you frustrated because you’re trying to force things to happen on your timetable? Sometimes we hold on to things so tightly, but actually, when we let them go, that’s when God can bring them to pass. If you’ll release that frustration and not let it become the center of your attention, but instead use that same time and energy to thank God that He’s directing your steps, you open the door for God to give you the desires of your heart.

    We have to remember, God already knows what we want and what we are in need of. He’s the One who put those desires in us. We shouldn’t be consumed by trying to make things happen. Instead, a greater act of faith is to be happy right where you are; to stay open and trust God because He has good plans in store for your future!

    2) Rori’s Relationship tool of the week:
    Dear Shannon,

    Have you ever felt like the words and messages
    and thinking that’s going on in your brain is
    taking over your life?

    Like you just look out the window of the car
    and wonder how you got from the last place you
    remember being to where you are right now?

    It’s like going through life on automatic
    pilot, and the worst thing of it is (besides the
    part about not experiencing and enjoying what’s
    actually happening WHEN it’s happening), is that
    it makes it IMPOSSIBLE to get and stay connected
    to a man!

    There is no way a man can feel safe enough to
    open his heart if we’re not actually, totally,
    really THERE with him.

    And sometimes, the habit of letting our brains
    spit out words and judgments and opinions and
    labels all day long every day becomes so much a
    part of us we don’t know what it’s like to just

    In all my programs, you’ll find many Tools to
    help you be Present – especially in my Heart
    Connection Toolkit CDs – and I’ll give you a new
    one here I created to help myself when I was
    walking this morning.

    Let’s call it NONSENSE.

    The idea here is to combat your Thinking with
    gibberish, gobbledygook, nonsense syllables and

    It’s like an “interrupt” – where your brain
    doesn’t get to spit out a whole sentence.

    Try it like this:

    Let’s say you’re standing on the street,
    walking, and you’re lost in thought.

    Let’s say you can actually HEAR that voice in
    your head describing something, or figuring
    something out, or asking questions of your man.

    Now – the moment you NOTICE your brain running
    on and on, just start throwing in some
    Nonsense – like “zzzzz,xfy,anamomojrrr” –
    anything that doesn’t require THOUGHT (you’ll see
    if you try it – it’s easy and sort of effortless).

    Within seconds, you’ll feel yourself relax.
    You may smile and get your sense of humor back.

    And in those few seconds, you’ll feel a
    connection with what’s really there – the tree,
    the coffee house chair, the wrapper on the
    sidewalk, the face of the person walking toward

    Now – try it with a man!

    If you’re having dinner with him, and you’re
    feeling flooded with thoughts – start the
    nonsense going.

    You might laugh.

    Just a few seconds here and there will help
    you tremendously.

    Once you’ve experienced the suspension of your
    thought in the midst of all the nonsense sounds –
    you’ll love that feeling.

    You can see how Circular Dating makes this
    work so well and easily: The more men you come in
    contact with, the more opportunities you have to
    practice Nonsense with, and the more men you’ll
    start automatically CONNECTING with, and so
    you’ll have SO MANY men to CHOOSE from!

    I know it sounds fanciful if you’ve never
    experienced this – but I KNOW – from my own life
    and the success of my clients and all the stories
    you send me – this WORKS!

    Practicing the Tools with men everywhere gives
    you an almost unlimited amount of men to practice
    with. And this makes the man you with want to
    jump all over you and grab you up forever – and
    it makes meeting Mr. Right so effortless and fun.

    Being Strong on the Inside and Soft on the
    Outside is the key here. And you can do it.

  14.  #14Simply Shannon on January 28, 2010 at 8:16 am

    I love the Nonsense tool! I will definitely be doing that one. Just something to stop the racing thoughts. I feel calm again. YES!

  15.  #15Lisa on January 28, 2010 at 10:45 am

    Dear Rori,

    Thank you for the challenge in the outrageous title, “Will you fall apart if you don’t think about him” 🙂 Quite the opposite, eh?

    Nita says she feels “alive and relaxed” — that is the goal, and is the opposite of obsessed. Colors are brighter when we can remove the filter of our single-minded obsession.

    Pity songs teach us to be this way: “You’re my obsession; who do you want me to be, to make you sleep with me?”


    I commiserate. In a similiar state, I once walked into an appt. and the guy said, “Hey, you’ve got a friend!” I must’ve looked like a zombie.

    My process now: Smell the flowers, and they’re all ’round!

  16.  #16Turtle Girl on January 28, 2010 at 10:59 am

    Rori is right. Have a list of things to immerse yourself in, so that you are forced to divert your mind long enough for some time to pass so that eventually things obsessive thoughts get fewer and fewer. Concentrate on you.

    I broke up from Toxic Man November 8th. In our relationship he called me every day, twice a day or more. I felt loved because of this. There was a bunch of terrible stuff, but that’s not the topic here.

    When he first dumped me (i tried to dump him in October and reneged on it-silly me) I felt like someone put a knife in my gut. I thought I would curl up and die. Well, I thought of him 24/7 and cried my eyes out. Can’t sleep, thinking about what did I do wrong, blah blah, blah, Hmm….then On Dec 8th he calls and wants to give me his xmas present, so I meet him at a restaurant and he is very condescending as if he is doing me a favor by meeting me and giving me the present to show me what a “good guy” he is (the moral high ground attitude) and gives me a hug and acts like I am the poor little waif who has been rejected by him, but he is big hearted and we can be friends, right?

    I smiled and was nice, but I was pissed.

    Then the light bulbs came on, and now it has been almost two months since I have seen or talked to his lame ass, and I still think of him! But-not near as often. Because I immediately started circular dating, I immediately got a chore list and started doing things. Got my car fixed, did dishes, went to the movie with girlfriend, picked out paint for my doghouse for a spring project, etc etc etc. Like Rori says, clean out your drawers-
    I got my life back and realized I had been worshiping at the alter of him and I hated what I had become. I was obsessed and he was my addiction. It was not love.

    Oh, yes I guess you could say I cared for him. But real love does not feel like that kind of crazy 24/7 shit. It just doesn’t. The obsessing is not about him-it is about us-it is about something going on with us. Some kind of fever that has its root in fear.
    F-E-A-R. False Evidence Appearing Real. Aha! oh my that does not feel good, i want to blame him, i want to make it all about him. Neit. It’s our shit baby. And that’s what I had to look at. What IS UP WITH THAT Turtle Girl? Hmmmm……The obsessing stopped when I took my focus off of him and put it on me. Sanity starts to return. It is INSANE to obsess over another person. I had to let it go.
    You can too. Nine days will turn into ten and eleven and twelve if you do not text him or talk to him or email him. NO CONTACT. The obsessing is just the withdrawal symptoms. Just like kicking a drug. Don’t use and you can stay clean.

    Turtle Girl

  17.  #17Turtle Girl on January 28, 2010 at 11:02 am

    Wow Dock-
    That is a trip!!!! He is the on obsessing prolly because of guilt that he treated yo so crappy……wow….blows me away…

  18.  #18Turtle Girl on January 28, 2010 at 11:03 am

    Smell the flowers! Yes! They are everywhere. I think you are so cool girl-really like your vibe!
    Turtle Girl :0)

  19.  #19Lisa on January 28, 2010 at 11:36 am

    Thank you, Turtle 🙂 I think you’re one pretty cool cookie, yourself 🙂

  20.  #20gina on January 28, 2010 at 12:07 pm

    I am grateful for this post. I’ve been obsessing a TON lately. Last week, I went on a date where I rehashed regrets about past failures, and I felt triggered by this guy’s earnestness, and guilt about how I wasn’t interested at all, and I just wanted to run away and the date seemed to drag on forever. And the next day i felt super DOWN and anxious and stuck. I watched TV forever, which i never do, and after watching TV for several hours for a few days in a row, my brain began to hurt. And that’s when I felt “done” – like I was looking for misery, and when I felt my head hurt, and i felt like I was trapped in my head with racing thoughts about “woulda coulda shoulda” and self loathing, I felt like I had given myself my medicine/couldn’t stand being idle anymore/ready to take some drastic action. And over the last couple of days, I have begun to feel good and ready to give up some of the freedom I have been enjoying to gain some power and status by earning more money at a regular 9-5 job. Cause I feel like I’m not anchored by any status in society. And that I either need to have a career or a successful husband to FEEL good about doing True Beauty Workshops. And I believe I was being self destructive by watching all that TV, but I also know that I wanted to escape what I usually do in order to get some perspective on the uneasiness that I have been feeling about my lifestyle. I like all the freedom that I have. But I feel like an outsider to society – like my way of living is so different, and I feel like I want to make an impact, but as an outsider, I feel like an “invader” by encouraging young people to think critically about how our society functions. If I feel like a productive Member of society, I believe I can feel good about influencing thought. Also, I feel PRESSURE to make True Beauty into some successful business, when I would prefer to make it a successful effort to reach people. Of course inspired action from a place of joy is preferable. but I just don’t think I was going to feel inspired to buckle down and “grow up” and give up freedom unless I began to feel bad. And so I guess I WANTED feel bad so that I could develop a stronger desire for power over freedom. I feel curious about this headache that I developed – It was like every negative thought I had felt like a zing of pressure.
    Now I’m second guessing my perception of my life. It’s just that I have a college degree, and I have valuable abilities, and yet I’m making very little money. And usually, I’m proud of how I manage to live a humbly luxurious life, but last week, my parents spent 900$ on my car, and I realized that it would have been difficult for me to take care of myself without their help. And that’s when i began to feel pressure to make a change.
    It seems like I had taken a break from thinking so hard for a while, and then I felt triggered to let my brain come in and judge the progress made while it was taking a break from running my life. and my brain wasn’t super impressed with what it saw. And some negative feelings correlated with the negative judgment, and so a new course of action is taking shape.
    SORRY for this long drawn out bizness – I’m surprised if you’re actually reading this…but I just realized that by expressing all these ideas, i thought I was disagreeing with the idea that we ought to follow our feelings. But now I’m realizing that this wasn’t Rori’s advice. And that I’ve been very feminine in my approach to life. And maybe not so feminine in my relationships with men. And this determination to DO what doesn’t necessarily feel so fun and good is my masculine side taking care of me. and it’s about time for my masculine side to do this. Aaaah. I feel a sigh of relief. Like my masculine side is like “OOOOOooooh….that’s what you needed from me” and my feminine side is like “OOOOOOOoooooh…no wonder I wasn’t getting much done.” okay…ready to make a switch, and right this moment, it doesn’t feel like pressure. I feel a growing desire for power and status, and a willingness to get the job done.

  21.  #21Rori Raye on January 28, 2010 at 12:32 pm

    Debra, Thank, you! Love, Rori

  22.  #22Tina on January 28, 2010 at 12:32 pm

    Gina, I read it and it makes sense to me. My boy is or is aware that “he” needs to take care of his girl. This does feel scary to me.

  23.  #23Lucy on January 28, 2010 at 12:35 pm

    Oh, I guess I AM talking about closure, aren’t I? Didn’t realize that at first! Thank you for pointing that out, Rori. I feel a bit confused about Feeling Messages in this context. If I were to tell him how I really feel, it would go something like this:

    “I feel sad because I want a real relationship with you.”

    But that feels like “chasing” to me. And it feels scary. It feels like it could easily chase him away. But it is truly how I feel, so is it an appropriate Feeling Message??? What other Feeling Message could I use that is genuine but less chasing? It feels like saying anything short of what I really feel is suppressing my real feelings.

    He texted me today quite a bit, and I was definitely soft on the outside and strong on the inside. And he liked my vulnerability; he always likes my vulnerability, and that is one thing I love so much about him. He nurtures me.

    But I did not tell him, “I feel sad because I want a real relationship with you.” We were just talking about other things, not our “relationship.”

    Thanks for your help!

  24.  #24Lucy on January 28, 2010 at 12:41 pm

    One other thing, in reading the other comments here I am seeing that it is unusual that I have never obsessed about a guy before this. Every past relationship, I was the one who ended it, and I have never felt anywhere near this attached/attracted/addicted to anyone before. I don’t think I have ever been “in love” before, even with the man I married. With this guy, I feel like I could fall in love for the first time in my life. If I let myself.

  25.  #25Daria on January 28, 2010 at 1:12 pm

    how about “I’m feeling sad. I want a real relationship and this doesn’t feel quite like that. What do you think?”

    this takes out the Chasing aspect because really its not about him. its about the real relationship you want, and how this doesnt feel that way to you , and you feel sad. plus asking him what he thinks allows him to communicate wiht you

  26.  #26Lucy on January 28, 2010 at 1:28 pm

    I like that, Daria. However, I feel a bit uncertain about it. It is true that “I want a real relationship,” but it is significant to me that I want it with HIM. There are other guys in my circular dating who are offering me a real relationship, but “I don’t want a real relationship with them.”

    If I say “this doesn’t feel quite like that” I feel like I am making it about him then, and that part feels a little like Chasing to me.

    I feel very appreciative of your help, Daria. 🙂

  27.  #27Lucy on January 28, 2010 at 2:00 pm

    Hmm. Another factor: It actually DOES feel like a real relationship to me! Lol. But I know from this blog that it’s NOT. So I can’t genuinely say to him that it doesn’t quite feel like a real relationship.

  28.  #28Simply Shannon on January 28, 2010 at 2:12 pm

    Melanie: Maybe describe what a “real relationship” means to you. Describe what you want. Maybe that will make it more clear. And I mean, describe it here and we’ll help. 🙂

  29.  #29Lucy on January 28, 2010 at 3:30 pm

    Thanks, Shannon! The reason I say this feels like a real relationship to me is because he is incredibly caring and nurturing toward me, is very emotionally tuned in to me and helps me through little glithes in our “relationship” and my relationships with other people (e.g., he identified that I have an issue with shame and is really helping me with it), and honestly makes me feel more loved and cared for than any guy in my past. Add to that the fun and flirting that goes on, the fact that we share a common spiritual path that is fairly unusual, and the fact that he challenges me intellectually (first guy able to do so), and that he is stronger than me personality-wise (makes it so easy to be “soft on the outside”) . . . all adds up to: I love this guy and I love the way he makes me feel!!!

    So, first, lol, I want to meet him in person. He brought this up on new year’s and said “let’s plan on it” but we have not discussed it since. So I go into fear that he will/has changed his mind. He lives 10 hours away, so it would be a real time commitment for him. After that, assuming that it went well, I would love to visit him, to get to know him more in his environment. I would really like for him to feel as attached to me as I do to him. I would like to feel certain every day that he is thinking of me in a very special way, as the one woman for him, the one he never wants to lose.

    I have realized that, for me, long-distance does not equal fear of intimacy. Your posts about sex have helped me realize that with local guys I jump right to sex as a way to avoid true intimacy. With this one long distance guy (my first and only) I have been able to connect with him deeply and intimately, in part, I think now, because the distance has prevented sex from circumventing true emotional intimacy. We have gone through some emotionally vulnerable and fragile areas that amaze me — and he has helped make those fragile places in me stronger with his unconditional love. He sees my defenses, and invites me to come out from behind them, offering me a safe place with no judgment or shame. How can I not love that?

    Also, in my circle of friends and family, there are several great marriages that started out as long-distance relationships.

    I know, this is an “imaginary relationship” right now. What would have to happen for all the goddesses here to not call it imaginary any more? 🙂 Where is the line between real and imaginary?

  30.  #30Rachel on January 28, 2010 at 3:41 pm

    I am so encouraged by this posting and especially Turtle Girl’s story of her past 3 months! I, too, am 3 months into a major step back from my overfunctioning with the man I love(d). He is beginning to initiate more, but I’m still watching to see if this man knows how to dance!

    In the meantime, what to do with all the free time that I used to devote to texting, emailing, calling, FB prowling, staring at pictures, etc.?

    Honestly, for weeks I couldn’t do anything. I love to read, write, cook, scrapbook, do home spa treatments, etc. and I simply had no energy or interest in any of them. I lived in a haze of pain and longing. The ONLY thing I could do for myself was to stick to my guns and not initiate anything.

    And V…E…R…Y slowly, I began to feel myself coming back. I began to do things and while I wasn’t enjoying them yet, I would realize that for a few minutes, I hadn’t thought of him. The morning that I woke up thinking about something else was HUGE!

    So now… we are still in contact. I am circular dating and finding one guy in particular to be really growing on me! As for Guy A, I feel curious, interested, open to what may happen… but I am actually not sure now if I really want him! tee hee!

    This week I have been going through a really hard time with my youngest daughter. I informed both men and WOW… what a difference in the response! It feels really good to have a man genuinely concerned and standing with me during this hard time VS a short email saying, “things will get better”

    Hmmm…. may the best guy win!

    I have to say one more thing… in my darkest days, I read this blog almost hourly. It was like a lifeline! I love all the sirens here who share their stories and give hope to each other.


  31.  #31Tina on January 28, 2010 at 4:58 pm

    My boy is taking care of my girl 🙂 I hung up on “truckman” last night because of his raised tone and using the F word with me about my feelings, he since tried calling back several times , I unplugged the phone and went to bed. He called and left a message this morning with a new tone in his voice, I called back. I didn’t mention is outburst and neither did he. He called again this evening with a much happier tone. He will be here in an hour to pick me up to go driving anyway , I was on my treadmill starting to obsess about his “outburst” instead of using the nonsense words I rhymed one syllable words 🙂 and it helped pass the time on my treadmill, plus I told myself I loved my belly. The messy convo started about me signing up for an account on facebook again, I told him I feel jealous if there are women on his friends list especially if he dated them in the past, then I said well maybe I wont sign up again, he started to feel impatient and raised his tone of voice and used the ef word about my feelings lol ,I want to swear to right now lol, fcker! I dated myself all day yesterday , that felt good to do. I went to a bar by myself and belted out a few songs and didnt get home until almost 3am. My boy is good at defending my girl if he has too. Anyway thats where things are at, I’m waiting for him to show up. This could get interesting.

  32.  #32Simply Shannon on January 28, 2010 at 5:15 pm

    For me, it doesn’t feel real until I meet someone. I’ve felt great connections with men before and upon meeting them in person, there was no chemistry. Zip… zilch. I felt SOOOO disappointed. I know exactly what you’re feeling right now. I do. This is why I am now a big advocate for not doing much emailing/talking/texting before the first meeting. I just don’t want to invest that much upfront. Once I’ve screened a guy to make sure I don’t feel a major ick factor, I’m all for meeting them. Sooner rather than later. But that’s me. 🙂 I also don’t do long distance relationships for the exact same reason.

    It feels so easy to forget that the person on the other end of the line is a real live person. Pictures are two dimensional and don’t really show you how a person looks/moves/smells/feels. He may have sweaty palms and bad breath or belch and fart at the table. Or he may have impeccable manners… so impeccable that he looks down on you when you pick up the wrong fork. 🙂

    I guess I feel curious the reasons you haven’t met him yet. I also feel cynical and bad for writing all this but it’s how I feel and why I don’t do long distance relationships.

  33.  #33Soignée on January 28, 2010 at 5:20 pm

    Dear Rori,

    thank you for the post. it speaks a lot for me.
    I was always the giver, as I had the task to “save the world”. As child, I was very smart and successful because of some talents. I was given a lot from life. But my success in early years turn so that I had to take care of my family, so I grew up very early. Nobody would take care of me because it was me who was a caring human being, but in this way my success developped a masculine energy, I was always forward for everybody, I helped the entire environment around me.
    But the narcistic people, like Rori says, they were in my life, they did not think of me, of my needs, they thought of their plans, so I grew up very very early.

    But so my masculine energy worked against me in my relationships, I made every mistake Rori tells here. because I did not know that giving in relationships is pushing away, I saw only the results and my initiating, chasing after men did not work. And I remember that every man who fell in love with me, was attracted to me as I was an absolute girl, a leaning back girl.

    So in this post I can see that this taking care of everybody can be noble, but in relationships with men is totally against you.

    In one of my recent stories,
    a man who I went out with, he saw me like a successfull carrier woman. And in his mind, I was strong who did not need any help, support etc. He started to tell me about his problems. As I am writing this, I feel angry at him and icky. His ex wife did not work, so she needed help, she needed him as a provider, and he with me, he had a lot of fun because of the life I offered him, but he saw me as strong, too indipendent, and he asked me for help, advice. ù

    I hate this feeling now to be giving, to be a good girl in relationships, to hold the problems of men on my shoulders, to give them advice when they need it or not. I want to be a woman, a woman with life, fun and love and support. I do not want to be considered indipendent, strong, nearly “guy” friend who can do everything.

    Dear Rori, I am even afraid of success because in this way, the men see me like equal, like a guy and they start to ask for help. I hate it, I feel icky, and first of all, this man, I hate him really for making me feel like not a woman, but like a doormaty guy, sister, saint, a giving mother.

    So are my overwhelming feelings and I am so sorry for it.

    I am really convinced that I will hide my successes from men, because they start to see me that I do not need anything. And if I am with them, I need their presence, their help, their support, I need their protection,, that the man to get MAN, a provider, a masculine man. And my success often is misinterpreted as a masculine energy.

    Ladies, help!! Rori help!!!

  34.  #34Soignée on January 28, 2010 at 5:28 pm

    I feel that listening sometimes at level 2 gives the man the possibility to “clean his soul”, to speak out freely that he can put order in his thoughts and after that this need with a good listener is satisfied. And he feels better and does not need anything else. So was his need for companionship.

    So I think that I won’t tolerate a lot of speaking of my future man because I want to be a woman, not too human understanding woman. In this way, when I do not open everything about me and do not listen to him a lot, there will be some of distance with me and I won’t be too available for his mind, so he will consider me more goddess, some distance with short feeling messages will help. But I am scared of too much listening on level 2.

    I saw a lot of examples when the men talk to women, express them but this listenining does not absolutely help. what do you mean Ladies, share your opinion please.Thank you

  35.  #35Brenda on January 28, 2010 at 5:47 pm

    I used to obsess about men…until I attracted another mean one. And I thank God for it! Because, I broke up with him and moved to my favorite place in California. After that, I wasn’t sure what I wanted and had a series of short relationships…the when I had to move from CA to Idaho to be with my parents because I ran out of money, I got clear what I wanted…I wanted to be married AND have 2 more babies with Mr. Right. As soon as I got clear and that I was going to accept nothing less, a man appeared, the man who was already telling me he loved me and we weren’t even dating, but I couldn’t hear him before! Now, that we are romantically involved I just stick to my no-sex rule because I want to take really good care of myself and the unfolding of my relationship vision, whether it is actually him or not. I am now clear. And until he asks me for a commitment and should I choose to decide, i am circular dating…I’m not going to talk to him about it because that would be mean, but if he asks, I will lightly tell him the truth.

  36.  #36Daria on January 28, 2010 at 5:56 pm

    Yay Brenda! I feel inspired to move somewhere I want to live!

  37.  #37Rori Raye on January 28, 2010 at 7:19 pm

    Soignee –please don’t back off of Listening at Level 2 – This is a feminine thing. What you’ve been doing in the past is listening, leaning in, offering advice – “being there” for a man in a very different way from leaning back in your chair, focusing your attention on him and his words, staying with him, just being there in your chair, and nodding your head or saying things like “bummer…” “oooh…” “wow…” “that feels crappy…” “that would feel good…” Do you see the difference? Good luck – try this out… Love, Rori

  38.  #38Rori Raye on January 28, 2010 at 7:25 pm

    Rachel – BRAVA!!! Wow – this is exactly how it works…Love, Rori

  39.  #39Lucy on January 28, 2010 at 7:29 pm

    Shannon, I don’t feel bad about what you wrote; you were just sharing your own feelings and experiences, which is great! 🙂

    Two things that are different in this situation though: First, I kind of have a knack for knowing what the person is like before meeting them in person. Some of my friends challenged me to give guys a chance, like you said, if I don’t feel a major ick factor — even though I was ready to write them off before even meeting them. Well, I regret trying it. I have found that, without fail, my pre-meeting instinct has been right. Second, with this particular guy, I actually know someone who knows him, and that person says he is exactly what I think he is.

    Why haven’t I met him yet? Practical reasons, really. We first started up in August, and in September/October he spent two weeks at a conference, and then had to make up for lost time at home and work. Then we were both busy over the holidays — both traveling to different states to spend time with extended family (and he got snowbound where he was, which took more time away from home and work). He has had things he has to be home for recently as well. So . . . I am hoping that the time is coming SOON. I wish there was some way to ask him, but I don’t want to “chase.”

  40.  #40Rori Raye on January 28, 2010 at 7:31 pm

    Melanie, sounds like you have a fabulous friendship going on here, and that’s nothing to sniff at. In the old days, people fell in love through letters after meeting only once – but no one can fall in love without meeting. Ever watched “Dating in the Dark”? I saw women there turn down men they’d made out with, opened their hearts to, shared everything with – and these guys were totally acceptable looking – even CUTE! The men do it way less, but if the zing isn’t there, it’s a friendship. Real means different things in different circumstances – for you, real is in the physical world, imaginary is over the phone/web lines. Real is he gets on a plane and shows up on your doorstep to find out if there’s anything there with you. And…you can’t circumvent true intimacy by having sex too soon. It just shows UP the fears faster. Try challenging your beliefs about everything…and follow how things feel…perhaps this will work out magnificently! Good luck to you! Love, Rori

  41.  #41Lucy on January 28, 2010 at 8:11 pm

    Rori, thank you! Your words feel very encouraging and hopeful to me. Yes, you are exactly right about the friendship, which is why I REALLY don’t want to drive him away– I value that friendship so much even if it doesn’t turn into something more. I also very much appreciate your acknowledgment of the power of letters in the old days — as a writer, and having an old-fashioned sentimentality, that is where my mind has been going, thinking particularly about the letters between C.S. Lewis and Joy Davidman before they even met. BUT, you are also right about the necessity of actually meeting at some point before romantic love can truly blossom. I greatly appreciate you helping me see exactly what “real” would mean specifically for me in this situation.

    Even though he already said “let’s plan on meeting,” I should wait for HIM to bring it up again, and for HIM to follow through, right? Not mention it myself? Even with some kind of feeling message?

    I feel confused about this: “you can’t circumvent true intimacy by having sex too soon. It just shows UP the fears faster.” In my experience, sex allows me to AVOID my fears and my real feelings and to shut down sharing myself emotionally (and to shut down wanting to know the guy on a deeper level as well). It allows me to avoid all that intimacy while at the same time having a physical feeling of “closeness” that is satisfying on a surface level. I have just recently realized this about myself, as I have read through Shannon’s recent thoughts on the topic.

    When I read your words, “perhaps this will work out magnificently!” — I feel excited . . . but scared. SCARED of it working out. Scared of the possibility of actually getting what I want! Scared of having a man I really really like in my life. Scared of actually “doing” intimacy with a man I love. Scared but excited. 🙂

  42.  #42gina on January 28, 2010 at 9:07 pm

    Oh I still obsess about Johnny. Especially right now because there isn’t a single guy that I’m talking to or having any hope with at all. booooo…….I intend for some new magical something to happen with a man TOMMORROW. Surely, I can manifest SOMETHING. BTW…in my fantasies about Johnny, I’m either sleeping with him or telling him off.

  43.  #43Daria on January 28, 2010 at 9:56 pm

    yay i feel rejoicing
    at the blog format

    i feel surprised ! i didnt know i would feel this way

    its like a weight has been lifted!

  44.  #44Daria on January 29, 2010 at 1:11 am

    okay so i went to a different acupuncturist twice. i like this lady i call her the magic acupuncture lady. she has really good energy and she teaches me how to be my own doctor

    also she said i dont need to go to acupuncture all the time (i was going twice a week to my local doctor for a few months) just when i feel i need it

    which is basically what i was coming to this conclusion too

    so then today i went to my local acupuncturist and when i left he wanted to shecdule so i said no i wil just call in. he said ok what about later on the week our regular time and i said no i will call in.

    and then i said thank you and i left

    and i saw him at the desk and i felt SAD

    cuz i got this feeling that i felt sad, like he was trying to look happy but i thought he felt bad that i just “dumped” him and he was losing one of his regular clients and losing money i guess

    so now im thinking back on this and i feel so sad…

    and its reminding me of my grandfather and i feel saddddd

    i feel so sad!

  45.  #45Daria on January 29, 2010 at 1:13 am

    i feel guilty!

    and i know “i dont have to feel guilty and blah blah, and suck it up who cares its life and really its not a big deal”

    and the truth is i feel so sad


  46.  #46Daria on January 29, 2010 at 1:21 am

    hes a nice man and he doesnt deserve to lose business

    he works hard and i felt cared for by him

    i feel guilty! i feel sad and concerned

    i dont want him to not like me

    he gave me a discount when i asked him to


    i feel so sad!

    i feel so sad thinking of that last time i saw him sitting at his desk and i felt or imagined this disappointment and trying to not to show it

    i am just crying

    i want to feel happy

    i want to feel good and supported in my decision

    i want to feel good
    and i feel so sad

    i feel good im able to cry and FEEL so much

    i feel so much grief when i open to it surely this is opening me up to more joy


    i feel sad

    i miss having all my brothers and having a place with lots of people and coming and going to go to everynite

    where i know there will be laughing and feeling good and friendship

    i feel sad

    i feel sad

    i love my sadness i really do

    i feel glad im feeling

    and i feel sad

  47.  #47Daria on January 29, 2010 at 1:30 am

    okay i miss my acupuncturist

    maybe im sort of feel attached to him hehe

    i feel sad and open and curious

    im starting to feel good


    i feel fear when i think about scheduling an appointment

    like i have to make it up to him, and then fear of feeling that way

    i love myself

    im a very sensitive person

    i feel sad thinking about broken dreams


    my rigorous mental warrior training i put myself thru. im not going to become a night, or have to go on night marches, or etc… so why think this way, that i have to be “ready”? its ok. i feel glad actualy not to have these crises. i feel worried my body wouldnt be able to take it and i wouldnt survive

    and what about my dream of being a victorias secret model

    i feel sad that that isnt going on right now either.

    i feel glad about looking a lot like a victoria secret model

    i feel worried i dont much fit into this life. like
    im late to stuff cuz i dont like the idea of operating on a clinical business time

    and i feel repelled and appalled at what i see as shallowness

    and i feel hindered. what about my dream to make a billion dollars like bill gates? to have all this money and be able to bless people with it like jesus

    i feel sad

    i feel weak

    i feel like a tiny dot dreaming big dreams and i feel sad and i feel so hopeless and powerless and helpless to LIVE them

    i feel sad

    i love my sad feelings

    i love my tiredness

  48.  #48Daria on January 29, 2010 at 1:35 am

    my mom told me today that we are Goddesses. and thats why we’re here. and we’re Goddesses no matter what people say or think.

    i was like has she been reading my blog?

    but i think my energy is transmitting psychically hehe

    and also i put a picture of Bast the goddess of pleasure and cats on her wallpaper

    and she LOVED it

    i felt surprised

  49.  #49Daria on January 29, 2010 at 1:38 am

    on a goodnote i just checked my gmail and somone from Toastmasters wants me to call her because her friend’s son is not doing so well in school.

    that is Great. i would feel great to have a good match and help him in school

    Thank you!

  50.  #50Daria on January 29, 2010 at 1:48 am

    also i’ve solved my men driving to me problem, that is ive Transcended it

    it simply is not an issue any more i feel much calmer, i get that i can just calmly disqualify men who cant , its just a non issue really, i dont have to stress about it, i just Expect to be able to meet a man and hes coming to me

    it feels relaxing and i feel quietly supported

    it shifted when that one guy came to see me last week

    ever since then ive been having great communication about “it”

    its not a problem anymore

  51.  #51Daria on January 29, 2010 at 1:52 am

    i can challenge my belief

    im actually GREAT at surviving in the world and being happy

    im super stupendously 99%ile amazing and it shows in everything i do

    including how much money i make , and how famous i am

    and how many close friends i have, and how much i celebrate and enjoy life

    and how many things im invited to, and how many people want me around, and how many people want to come pick me up and drive me around

    mm that feels good

    im invited to be part of a music video shoot for an old time friend from highschool

    will feel fun tomorrow

  52.  #52Daria on January 29, 2010 at 1:57 am

    its really helped to be open hearted in solving my problem

    and also that i dont have to answer every question

    that was cool

    i really like practicing not answering every question and also letting the man say goodbye and not needing to say bye back that has really helped my
    “no closure” aura in a good way i feel very soft and mysterious and attractive

  53.  #53Daria on January 29, 2010 at 2:29 am

    i flossed. i feel calm and pleased.

    i feel glad and accomplished.

    so about guys

    yesterday night i went witha girl to a bar

    upstairs as we went to the bathroom, we saw a group of guys that were kinda my type

    so what did i do?

    i had smoked, so that may have contributed to….

    my completely looking away, HURRYING down the stairs, and WANTING TO LEAVE IMMEDIATELY!!!


    it really clicked that im AVOIDING men that i find attractive because i feel fearful

    luckily my girl wanted to talk to the bartender, so we stayed, and wound up talking to him and another guy

    i forgot about the other guys and was just relaxing practicing tools


    that was an aha

    i GOT to what a HUGE EXTENT im running away from men i find attractive!


    i mean, I know they will chase me down anyway, but really to RUN away from them? wow

    i would have 100% left the venue.

    i felt absolutely RIDICULOUS sticking aroudn thinking that maybe they will approach. i wanted to LEAVE. \

    THAT was pretty interesting. i feel very interested in turning this around

    i would like help with this angels!

    and with believing that my sound healing the acupuncturist taught me


    moves energy down from diaphargm donw and feels well

    will heal me.

    i love me

    she wanted me to get my friends together and share these secret 3 sounds she taught me

    and i feel sad and ashamed beause well… i told her im not good at sharing ie getting people to learn things from me becase well… i get so invested in wanting them to learn it that i get controlling and people dont want to learn

    kinda crazy since im a tutor huh

    i REALLY want to heal this! I feel ashamed and sad and limited by it.

    Thank you!!!

    i feel afraid and stuck because ive been wanting to heal this for so long. can it really be healed?


    thank you

    thank you Angels

    thank you Angel Daria

    Goddess Daria

    wonderful human woman Daria


  54.  #54Lola on January 29, 2010 at 3:14 am


    I’m inspired by you hanging up like that – that was so cool that you didn’t get drawn into an argument.

    I always find it hard to walk away like that and he gets hot under the collar a lot – but because you’ve done it, I’m gonna follow your example next time.

    I’ll let you know what happens

  55.  #55Rachel on January 29, 2010 at 6:02 am

    I have been leaning WAY back… which has been easier since I’m going through some tough stuff with my daugher that is requiring most of my energy. So this morning, I get an email that says, “It would be nice to know if you’re alright.”

    This comes after two days of hearing nothing.

    I feel irritated, hurt, disappointed… I felt that this family crisis was an opportunity for him to step up and be supportive. To be the “man” and offer strength and care. Hmmmm….

    So I’m not sure how to respond. Part of me wants to just write back and say, “I’m alright!”

    I’m trying to figure out why this is bothering me so much. Not because I want to spend the energy on him, but because I want to understand ME. I feel in a really good place with him in that I’ve stopped obsessing… so why did this upset me so much?

  56.  #56Lola on January 29, 2010 at 6:22 am


    I have this with my boyfriend and I feel that it is a misguided social convention thing sometimes. Some men feel it should be an equal exchange, they have come to expect equality.

    I honestly feel (and I am realistic about the things that that don’t feel right with him) that he thinks about me a lot. That he is willing me to call him more, he feels feminine and unsure here.

    When I lean back and don’t give in to my urge to call/text he’s a bit hurt and can’t understand it (like your guy).

    But I feel you are right we need to look at ourselves rather than them and discover how to to transcend.
    If that makes sense

  57.  #57Debra on January 29, 2010 at 6:49 am

    Rori, thank you for your blog and literature. I have ordered your ebook and reviewed it many times, it’s still a lot to take in and incorporate, but I’m confident one day it’ll “click” for me.

    I didn’t see a place to contact you, but have a separate question…Basically, I am turning down exclusive relationship offers in order to date, experiment and learn more about myself and what I want, but I also feel like a hypocrite cause I want all the men only to myself LOL. What is the mindset a woman who is circular dating should take on the men in their lives who are also dating other women? A little contradicting because I want to be taken seriously, but then have no intention of committing unless it’s the “right” guy. Funny dilemma, I know…sometimes I think I have too much masculine energy? This definitely sounds like control issues to me? I’m just not sure how to approach these situations, when I really do genuinely like them, but can’t possibly settle down with one guy right now because of everything else going on in my life and the desire to sort through all my choices. Maybe I answered my own question…I need to be accepting of this behavior from them if I plan to be this way myself? I’ll be happy to offer additional info or clarification.

    Any insight would be greatly appreciated. Thank you very much.

  58.  #58Rori Raye on January 29, 2010 at 6:53 am

    Lola – just make sure you are RETURNING his calls…that’s not initiating, that’s responding…Can’t imagine qhy he’s hurt that you aren’t starting “threads” – Love, Rori

  59.  #59Rori Raye on January 29, 2010 at 6:55 am

    Rachel – how about …”Thank you for asking…things feel crazy (or however they’re feeling) – and it feels good to hear from you. I’m a bit burned out on email, it feels good to hear your lovely man voice…Rachel”

  60.  #60Rori Raye on January 29, 2010 at 6:57 am

    Daria – fabulous “catch.” Also – since you now know that “smoking” creates all kinds of issues with you – try not doing it for awhile and we what happens to that fear and avoidance – experiement! Love, Rori

  61.  #61Rori Raye on January 29, 2010 at 6:59 am

    Great about the old format coming back – thanks for bearing with my experiments…there will surely be more, but this one’s done. Love, Rori

  62.  #62Rachel on January 29, 2010 at 7:21 am


    I think you’re right. I feel a vibe of irritation or hurt in his email. Like I should be keeping him informed. And I feel like HE should be reaching out to me right now since I’m going through a hard time. I guess this email was his way of “checking” on me, but he didn’t OFFER me anything. I’m realizing that I feel hurt because I really would like to receive something… encouragement, love, a hug …

    Like you, I believe that he thinks about me a lot. But I have noticed the “equality” thing. It’s like he has to keep everything even… and darn it, I just want him to just step up and pour buckets of love my way!

    Hmmm… lots to think about.

  63.  #63Katheryn on January 29, 2010 at 11:03 am

    Hello lovely ladies! I like how Rori says that circular dating is used for healing to recognize our own bad patterns. Really digging into Rori’s material has helped me to recognize that I definitely need to be more SELFISH! I was so depressed. I did not like myself at all and like Rori says, I put up my defenses to men who rejected me. My girlfriends recognized me for being a big hearted sweetheart while men just could not handle my defenses at all. So, I’ve stopped worrying so much and I’ve been focusing on LOVING me, and becoming who I want to be, who I see myself as. It is so liberating! My last two boyfriends cheated on me and manipulated me. They were both heart wrenching difficult situations…so I had some pretty strong and negative reactions to men. Plus, I used to get VERY jealous…well I am still working on that, but I feel so much better about it. I have a wonderful man in my life right now. He appreciates women…and that was difficult for me to handle at first. I was so scared that every woman he looked at appreciatively was a threat. After really spoiling myself and loving myself and seeing myself as a goddess…I can see that yes, men definitely appreciate women. But you know what, my man appreciates me and loves me more than any other woman out there. Yes, there are gorgeous women out there who catch all of our attention. And they are gorgeous because they love themselves and they spoil themselves just like I do. So now, instead of wanting those gorgeous women to dissapear, I want to give them a high-five because I am a part of the goddess club now! Men appreciate me. My man adores me and he feels safe with me. He is all mine. I just feel so good! Thank you Rori for all of your positive energy. You are so awesome! Love to all of you gorgeous ladies!

  64.  #64Katheryn on January 29, 2010 at 11:09 am

    Dock: I like you, you have a good sense of humor. “Who’s obsessing now” is right!

  65.  #65Terry on January 29, 2010 at 11:43 am


    Just my opinion, but I don’t feel your man is trying to hurt you. This is where men and women are opposite. Women instinctively know to step in and help each other out in a crisis.

    When a man has a crisis he wants space to figure out a solution to his problem on his own. If a man needs support he will ask for it. He was giving you what he would want – space.

    He was waiting for you to ask for his support. I feel he wants to be your hero. That’s why he said what he did in his email. It’s his way of checking to see if you need his support.

  66.  #66DocK on January 29, 2010 at 12:29 pm

    Well thank you Katheryn! and Wow! Thank you as well for sharing your story. Reading it, I feel very inspired. : )

  67.  #67Katie on January 29, 2010 at 12:45 pm

    Hi Terry

    I think what you are saying is true. Men and women are very different and a man interprets and reacts to a woman’s situation or behaviour in a way which feels so counter-intuitive to us. Then we react to their behaviour after we have interpreted it through our own female vision. This process results in confusion and often hurt feelings. If just one partner is able to step out of the cycle, to become aware of differences and reacts in a way that the other gender can hear the whole communication can be cleared up.

    I love Rori’s answer:
    “Rachel – how about …”Thank you for asking…things feel crazy (or however they’re feeling) – and it feels good to hear from you. I’m a bit burned out on email, it feels good to hear your lovely man voice…Rachel”

    Woo Hoo – it really can be this simple? Rachel if you do use Rori’s suggestion, please let us know your guy’s response!

  68.  #68Maria on January 29, 2010 at 12:49 pm

    l was just thinking why men never do closure. l think that mostly they dont want to “burn the bridges,” that explains, when some of them from past suddenly appear:)

  69.  #69gina on January 29, 2010 at 1:02 pm

    hey I was just thinking about this idea that circular dating helps us recognize our patterns. But i’m finding that dating just to date is revealing how I behave when i’m not interested. When I date men I am attracted to, that’s when i see how I interfere with connection, etc. I dunno. I just had a very uncomfortable experience with a frog last week. and i just don’t feel up for frogs!!

  70.  #70Katie on January 29, 2010 at 1:20 pm

    Gina Ha yes! I had a coffee date with ‘Mr Creepy’ and it was a month ago. It didn’t feel good, everything about him screamed NO – but I stuck with it for the full hour 🙂 Do you know, I learned quite a lot about myself like how much I give even to guys I DONT like, just because I had agreed to something. I felt my insides squirm and yet I did see him as a person with his own life and struggles etc – but an hour was enough. So I opted out when I got the next invite.

  71.  #71Katie on January 29, 2010 at 1:30 pm

    Then I spent a few ‘dates’ with a guy who triggered every triggerable reaction in me in a positive way. Just to explain that was with ‘Mr Interesting’ who I was not officially dating but oh my what a great guy, I mean there’s a depth to him that I go for (Pisces), plus he’s musical, sexy, good looking etc. But I knew he was not available b/c his girlfriend had just left him. So we talked and talked and flirted which cheered him up (and me). Then they got back together and I made a true friendship! Plus I got practice at getting triggered and just feeling how I felt.

  72.  #72Katie on January 29, 2010 at 1:40 pm

    How it relates to this post is that I was obsessing and just about heart broken last August. Obsessing was my second name, all because of the one called ‘Mr Ex’. So circular dating is absolutely THE BEST thing and this is all great practice. Plus I have four men I communicate with via an internet dating site.

    One just sent a reply to a message I sent last night – which starts with ” Hi Katie – It’s always a thrill to hear from you” !!!

    Then there’s ‘Mr Helpful/Cheery” who has asked me out to dinner in a couple weeks, would be sooner but he lives 2 hours away.

  73.  #73gina on January 29, 2010 at 1:44 pm

    katie it sounds like you got some good practice with a guy who was unavailable – I find that really comfortable and uplifting sometimes. I guess that’s true about the frogs – there’s stuff to learn. I see men attracted to me all the time and i guess I’m just convinced that I haven’t come across prince charming yet. When i go out with frogs, I have this mindset that I need to improve myself so I’ll endure a miserable date. And I don’t know if i want to function this way. I could do something else with my time and learn. I’m just feeling resistant and expressing it. I know that I could feel the opposite way.
    It’s interesting what you said about how you felt compelled to take care of the frog. So do I…like, for instance, I’m feeling a little guilty that i haven’t responded to his email about how he’d like to go out again. I just feel like “ugh! enough already…the date was bad enough – I don’t want any more awkward communication.” he was so nice. can’t I just say nothing and be the jerk?

  74.  #74Katie on January 29, 2010 at 1:45 pm

    Today – guess who I get an invitation for coffee from?

    Yes – ‘Mr Ex’ himself. Mmmm it’s a funny thing – I felt surprised, I felt a sense of dread, I felt excitement, I felt actually a bit repelled too – to receive something from him felt weird. So I am sitting on the invite to see how I feel tomorrow and IF I WANT to accept.

  75.  #75gina on January 29, 2010 at 1:48 pm

    I know…I was liking the circular dating until my most recent date. The main problem was that I agreed to meet him half way, which took 45 minutes. Maybe i should just say no to driving at all, cause I’m already hating the date before i even get there when I do drive.

  76.  #76Katie on January 29, 2010 at 1:52 pm

    Gina – ‘Mr Creepy’ tried twice to ask me out and I hadn’t replied!!
    Then I thought WTF do I say? I didn’t want to hurt his feelings, plus I find it hard to lie. So I said I had met someone in my own town who I’d like to get to know a bit better – which was absolutely true it was ‘Mr Interesting’ who I knew I couldn’t have a real relationship with at that ime but would do if he ever became suddenly reavailable. So no hurt feelings in any direction and ‘Mr Creepy’ got the shove – kindly!

  77.  #77gina on January 29, 2010 at 1:59 pm

    this guy isn’t creepy though. I just am not interested and it feels bad cause he was so so nice and obviously ready to find “the one.” I know he was hopeful about me cause we share an italian heritage. Italians are funny – my dad actually called me the next day to find out how the date went with the italian guy…he thought it was the most promising prospect i’ve encountered so far. He actually used his cell phone, which is serious, since my dad has my number taped to the side of the phone cause saving numbers into his contact list is beyond his technological know-how. the guy did everything just perfect, so it feels really bad to reject him.

  78.  #78Katie on January 29, 2010 at 2:00 pm

    I lost my GSOH after ‘Mr Ex’ and felt depressed for months. Christmas was a difficult time to get through. Then suddenly during this past month things have started to turn around. I mean I have to laugh!! I meet the most gorgeous guy on the planet who ‘knocks ‘Mr Ex’ into a cocked hat’ and yet I knew straight away he’s just landed on Siren Island to mend his sails – and I helped him and now he and his ex are planning to get married – Huh!?

  79.  #79Katie on January 29, 2010 at 2:04 pm

    I think I did an excellent counselling job helping him to untangle his shattered feelings!! I was talking about how women and men are different, I was using a lot of stuff I’ve learnt here.

  80.  #80Daria on January 29, 2010 at 2:04 pm

    Gina – I hear some potential messages about “rejecting men” and feeling bad about not feeling attraction and feeling Afraid to communicate that clearly

  81.  #81Katie on January 29, 2010 at 2:08 pm

    He has Italian heritage! Mmmm that clearly ticks a big box for your dad. Maybe you could suggest a testing activity at a venue of your choice that could make him come out of his frogginess – like bungy jumping?

  82.  #82Katie on January 29, 2010 at 2:11 pm

    An activity that takes you both out of comfortable roles. You may find he has another side to him. I can understand your hesitation to cross him off the list, so perhaps you would have nothing to lose by giving him another go!?

  83.  #83Katie on January 29, 2010 at 2:14 pm

    Does he have a GSOH? I mean that has to be one of those non negotiables.

  84.  #84gina on January 29, 2010 at 2:29 pm

    No no no…I’m sorry but he’s little and his vibe feels fragile. I don’t want to spend another moment. Yes, I feel a little bad about the lack of attraction. About responding, I am concerned about what it says about me if I don’t contact him. And I am a little concerned that it will disturb him more if I don’t contact him than if I do clearly communicate that I’m not interested. I feel a little curious about whether it is important that i do contact him, or is it okay to let the silence speak for itself.

  85.  #85gina on January 29, 2010 at 2:31 pm

    I don’t know what a GSOH is…?

  86.  #86Katie on January 29, 2010 at 3:44 pm

    Hey Gina
    I reckon it is better to say something about a lack of interest, but I guess it needs to be said in such a way that is kind yet authentic for you. Silence alone won’t stop him wondering about you as a future prospect and it wouldn’t stop you feeling bad – clearly you are a very thoughtful person to be expressing concerns about ‘the frog’ (a bit like me). How and with what words would you like to told by someone you’d had one date with that they weren’t interested in you any further and go with that? I don’t know if that helps?
    GSOH is used in profiles in UK to mean ‘good sense of humor’ (or humour).

  87.  #87Lola on January 29, 2010 at 3:59 pm

    What to do? Had argument on phone with boyfriend, then he said ‘I don’t want to do this anymore’ – I said ‘what see me?’ he said ‘yeah, talk to you tomorrow’ and hung up.

    Tomorrow is my birthday celebration night,(It’s actually Tuesday but he’s working so won’t see each other) my children with their father.

    The argument is over mis communication. This feels horrible. The rug is pulled again,

  88.  #88Lucy on January 29, 2010 at 4:06 pm

    I agree with this, Katie: “Silence alone won’t stop him wondering about you as a future prospect” because that’s how I feel when a guy is just silent — I stay somewhat hopeful, and end up dying a slow, painful death… 🙁 I would prefer to just get it over with. And a guy friend of mine said guys prefer to just be told it straight too.

    That said, I’m with you, Gina: it is SOOO hard to tell a great guy that you’re not interested! One that has just been so nice to you and all. Maybe the key is to let him know you think he’s a great guy, but that he’s just not the one for you.

  89.  #89Lisa on January 29, 2010 at 4:35 pm

    Maria says,

    “l was just thinking why men never do closure. l think that mostly they dont want to “burn the bridges,” that explains, when some of them from past suddenly appear:)”

    A male friend of mine refers to it as “checking the traps” 🙂 Men can be so pragmatic.

  90.  #90Flipper on January 29, 2010 at 4:50 pm

    Me either, whatsa GSOH?

    Gina, what about something like what some sirens were using a few months ago, ‘I’m sorry, I’m just not feeling any special attraction. I wish you well.” ?

  91.  #91Rachel on January 29, 2010 at 6:15 pm


    I did use Rori’s suggestion this morning and haven’t heard anything all day. =-(

    I really feel like this guy gets scared off when I’m in need. Not talking about being “needy,” but genuinely going through a tough time. It has happened 2 or 3 times over the year+ we’ve been together and each time, he pulls away.

    I have been pondering this all day… I think that he doesn’t offer because he doesn’t HAVE anything to offer. I don’t like to think that… but I really see the pattern. He comes close when things are going smoothly and disappears when anything goes awry.

    I do really appreciate the feedback on the male/female differences though. That gives me a different way to look at things and has relieved some of the pressure and expectation.


  92.  #92Brenda on January 29, 2010 at 8:48 pm

    Circular Dating ~ Practicing…

    I just canceled a date with a guy. He was going to take me to see an opera singer at the nice ski lodge and i began to feel uneasy because it was a long drive for him both ways and we were supposed to meet for coffee today first but he canceled. I emailed him and jokingly said, well, my parents are concerned and they want me to text them with your license plate number before we leave and he got all pissy and said, “well, i never Google my dates but here it is! and i work for the so and so dispatch and if i had your last name i could get your criminal background…” and wrote back and said, “this doesn’t feel good to me. i never said anything about Googling you so I am canceling our date.”

    Phew! I take this as a success!

    brenda 🙂

  93.  #93Daria on January 29, 2010 at 10:04 pm

    Wow Brenda Awesome ! way to stand up for yourself!

  94.  #94gina on January 29, 2010 at 11:47 pm

    Good for you Brenda! I feel good about not responding to “bad” behavior. Like there was a guy I met online who was texting me super flirtatiously, and I let him know that I didn’t want an imaginary relationship. So we made a tentative plan to meet on Sunday. We were texting on Sat, and I said that I was feeling curious about Sun, and he didn’t respond. So, when he texted “HI” exactly one week later, I felt fine not responding. Actually, I would say that a lack of closure hasnt really ever been a problem for me, because I can honestly say that I spend the entire relationship planning to close it before they can. Wow this is a major revelation. No wonder I haven’t had a real intimate relationship with a man!!!

  95.  #95gina on January 29, 2010 at 11:49 pm

    Except, that I’m really looking to see if it “should” be over. I’m always looking for “holes.” And if I see one, I try to hurry up and get through it. Either we get through it together, or I get through it alone.

  96.  #96darkhorse on January 30, 2010 at 6:13 am

    i lurk i lurk, i love this blog ..

    daria, you totally totally rock.

    lisa ‘checking the traps’ made me laugh so much!!!

    brenda – i love how you stood up for yourself.

    katie, men loving fixing problems. i have learned to say to my man – i feel bad (about x, y or z), a hug from you will make me feel much better .. it works so well ..

    rori, i love this blog!

    tinque, i love your comments, am working my way thru all david deida’s books. its amazing what happens when i focus on what i want, it literally shows up in my life.

    i am experimenting with ‘doing nothing’ .. my man has been a hero this week, really looking after me. the less i do the better for us.

    have been on a dating website, someone wants to meet me .. oh dear! it feels disloyal. it feels scary .. i feel i will ‘get caught’ .. i feel i will hurt my man if i tell him .. some help with this would be good .. i’m afraid of damaging what is going so well ..

    thank you lovely ladies ..

  97.  #97tinque on January 30, 2010 at 7:48 am

    darkhorse – love the lurking, lurking, lurking.
    doing nothing is working
    so wonderfully.
    are you exclusively,
    seeing your hero?
    If your answer’s no,
    coffee with another man,
    is a must ’til someone stands,
    up FOR YOU.

    Sorry for the really bad off the cuff “poetry”.
    I apologize if your story has appeared as a post before. It’s not coming to mind. What is up with your “hero” man?xxoo

  98.  #98Rori Raye on January 30, 2010 at 9:38 am

    Rachel – This is what you discover about a man when you lean back. If you don’t call him back when he doesn’t ask you to – does he call again to check that you got his message, thereby letting you know who he is and how much you’re able to call or text back – letting you know how much ROOM he has as a man? After a year – is he a man who wants to take you on – ALL of you? Perhaps your tough times ARE frightening to a man with certain issues. Are you going to soft-soap them, or choose the man who LIKES to help you through those particular times? This is the joy of Circular Dating. You CHOOSE. Love, Rori

  99.  #99Lisa on January 30, 2010 at 3:10 pm


    I just want to thank you so much for your work and this forum. As a previous poster said, I came to this place plenty of times daily during the worst period; it was my salvation! Thank you!

    I have also mentioned it to my counselor, who was most impressed that there is a site for women to share their difficulties and successes. She wondered if such a thing existed!

  100.  #100Tina on February 8, 2010 at 7:31 am

    Hello Rori,
    Ive been reading your post and all the lovely women post that visit this page. how ever im at a difficult place in my relationship right now, i was engaged to get married to a wonderful man, yeah he was one i was really hesitant with in the begining and after i let him in he was great and then when he had me he drifted, then we came back to gether and that time he had the ring , however i wanted a wedding and he wanted to do the court house thing so time and i believe people and thier suggestions got in the middle, however we got across that and came back together, so this last time i purchased the reconnect your relationship and it was working however i tried the dating thing cause he was here but he was’nt committing again and i feel like it back fired cause he’s started dating and now he’s posting pictures of him and a young lady that he’s haveing fun with on his social page so i deleted mine so i would not get in a low place….

    the reconnect your realtion ship really help me stay grounded and all the tools are wonderful, but now we are not even communicating and even when i am hanging out with other wonderful guys, and im present..when i get home and lay down my heart still desires my ex fiance’…i dont want another man… we have been together for four years…
    i remember the last time we spoke he asked me was i dating and i said yes and he told me he could feel it.so im wondering if he has moved on cause i began dating….
    another thing is i trust in the lord and i know what will be will be, however….

    what do you suggest I do now?

  101.  #101Rori Raye on February 9, 2010 at 11:39 pm

    Tina, Welcome, and have you ever talked with him about this? Asked him what happened? Why you’re not together anymore and why he’s dating? He didn’t move on because you moved on – but if you need to know, then ask. You’re letting him be in control here. Share how much you miss him, and that you’re not sure what to do, where things are at for you both. But you can’t bring this up until you feel solid inside, know what you want and are in touch with your feelings. Then -consider talking with him…Love, Rori

  102.  #102Alicia on March 20, 2010 at 9:52 pm

    Reading all these post.. REALLY OPEN MY EYES!!!!!

    Rori, ladies any other tools that I can speed my growth with??????? 😀 😀

    I can totally see the masculine energy I was raised with and have in my relationships… ICK! For starters my dad won custody of me when my parents divorced so, he totally “toughend” me up, in regards to feelings and emotions. Plus he was abusive so I had to stay strong to protect myself..

    I knew intimacy was hard for me but, I NEVER realized sleeping with a guy right away, was pushing away intimacy.. – To a degree I did but, now I fully get it. So many of my friends do that and are with the guy for years but, that didn’t work for me. And I have NEVER told a guy I love you.. EVER! How sad. I really have long way to go….. J.C. said that after we broke up he had fallen but, that was when I told I had a feeling that he had. And I said I had too.. But, Helllooo that was after and the honey moon stage was over…. and months after we were not together.

    Hmmmmmm shit. I’ve got a lot to work to do.

    And I didn’t realize how the “advice” to men, and giving was pushing. I just thought of it as really caring, although I could understand the leaning forward…

    Plus, this seems to be the case with my girl bestfriends.. It was like I was always the cheerleader for everyone else except myself. I would spend hours “helping them figure things out”.. But, again I thought that was what good friends do. And then I would apologize like I was not worthy or be sooo grateful they were doing me a “huge” (truth- normal) favor if I needed help. Or act like it was okay I could handle it and never ask for help.

    I find all this interesting at this time in my life and this blog/book/Rori in my life right now. Because I was laid off from my great paying, not so fun job. And I had to move in with friends of the family who are a much healthier model then mine. As in really caring. SO I am TOTALLY vulnerable… I’ve had more emotions come up in the past year then I know what to do with.

    Other then CDating is there anything I can do to make progress?? I’m also in my bible alot, read lots of self help books, and write/ journal.. (This has kind of taken the place of my journel.) I don’t know what kind of counselor I could afford.? But maybe I could go twice a month? My unemployment benefits are pretty good to keep my head above water and go to school. But anything else I can do?

    Rori, ladies any other tools??????? 😀 😀

    The mind interruption thing was a good one.

    I also know the going back to the “event” and redoing the outcome.

    Maybe hypnosis?

  103.  #103Daria on March 20, 2010 at 10:10 pm

    Alicia – I use EFT. There’s lots of info on how to do it online and youtube videos to learn it from.

  104.  #104Alicia on March 20, 2010 at 10:32 pm

    Daria –

    Your #50 response on this article.. really helped me!

    I’m just journaling for a sec here:

    This odd thing happened a few weeks before I found this blog. I haven’t seen this guy I dated in a year but we had kept in touch, email, text or whatever.. Anyway, my friends dad has this hunting dog who needs a home. My ex guy.. has a farm. So her dad calls me and is like can you call farm boy and see if he will take it???
    My intinct was nooooo not really it feels scary. But, this dog would be perfect there and it’s sad so see this dog locked up in a room. So, I did it.. It felt strange and vulnerable. Then days go by, no return call, so I emailed and said.. Look, my friends dad asked me a favor. I was scared to call you becuase we have not spoken in awhile.. but, if you can help the dog great, I can drive him down, if he does not work, I’ll pick him back up….. but, not this month, next month would be better for me, in the email.

    Well, he calls, and lucky for me my phone was dead. He leaves a voicemail saying he wasn’t sure maybe, he would call me later or I could call him when I got the message. I was fine doing NOTHING!! Then AGAIN my grandma and friend tell me ALICIA – CALL HIM, He is reaching out to you and the only way you ever show you care is thru email.. My friend says just treat him like a friend don’t worry about it. AGAIN my intincts were NOOOOO this does not feel right, this feel scary! But, I never take any risk with guys, so I thought crap.. why did my friends dad get me involved with this dog thing.? SO, thankgod, a few days later, I got his voicemail.. left him a thanks – against my intstincts.. But, I sounded NOTHING like myself.. I sounded timid and scared and rushed.. I said.. Hey man, I got your voicemail, about the dog. Thanks for that. Anyway, it’s sunny outside, I’m talking and walking, walking and talking.. If the dog thing works out later – great. If not dont worry about it. (but not in my normal tone)

    Then I jumped on the treadmill and ran it out but felt like I wanted to crawl under a rock and die.. SOOOO why my friends dad called me about the dog asking me specifically to call farm boy. I have no idea. BUT for me it was to re-affirm my instincts and trust my OWN HEART.. Rather then friends or family.

  105.  #105Alicia on March 20, 2010 at 10:35 pm

    Thanks Daria for the EFT info.. I look it up tonight.

  106.  #106Dee on February 9, 2011 at 2:53 pm

    Hey Rori, I’ve been devastated about a break-up as well. Its funny because this guy was so beneath me when we met and now he has so much going for him. I did make mistakes and lied everytime he asked about it. I finally told the truth but he still wanted to break up. He claims he jus wants to be alone but I know thats not the type of person he is. Do I really want him back? Of course. NO ONE but God has treated me as good as he has thats y i was able to let go of his flaws. I tried the Modern Siren n it worked on others but not him. At least not YET. Tried circular dating but it jus discourages me because no one has anything on him. I still cant stop calling him and we talk late at night but i fight daily to not call him n see him. I have no job n only go to school so its hard to NOT think about him. He still cares for me but doesnt want to show it and does not like spending TOOO much time because he doesnt want to fall deeper. I did nothing to him tho. Proof that he still cares is that hes bought me an early Valentine gift and he still answers whenever I call. Why does he not want to care and what should i do?

  107.  #107YAEL on June 13, 2011 at 11:56 pm

    OMG! I know this post is old now, but I just read it and fell apart, because it’s kind of a description of myself, especially for the “want to repair part”, not so much for the “controlling part”, I don’t like so much to control, probably because I hate being controlled myself. I’ve been married to a man I adored during 20 years and had my younger son with him. He was loving, charming, wonderful, nice, gorgeous and younger than me. When we were about to move from France to the US, he dumped me for a younger (but ugly) girl and it has been a shock for me since we really rocked, everything was great between us, even 20 years later. I had a major nervous breakdown, I almost died since I was neither eating, nor sleeping anymore. I wanted to cancel our departure to the US to stay with him, thinking he was freaking out about that, but he refused saying it wouldn’t change anything, and that I had to go and fulfill my dream. I precise he lost his mother just after we met, and as I was older than him, I always had this kind of maternal feeling towards him, something to repair in him, I needed to protect him, and when he dumped me, I was wondering how I was going to protect him if I was not around… I needed one year and a long term medical treatment to be able to survive, and so, one year later, I left Paris to Los Angeles, with my younger son, who was then 17 years old. I had something huge to build here, in the US, I had a lot of difficulties to get my working visa, but my son could continue his studies, and I finally managed to get what I wanted with my job. During 6 years, I’ve been focused on my work, on my life in the US, I dated nobody, pushing men away with a fake ring at the finger, saying everyone I was still married (what is actually the case) and couldn’t get involved with anybody else. Perfect excuse to protect myself, to avoid the suffering, to stay focused on my projects, to be available for my younger son. My elder son is working in Tokyo since awhile. I even added a cat, to care about.
    And lately, I met another man in professional but weird circumstances. I felt immediately attracted to him, I think I chiefly admire him. He seemed to be attracted to me as well, but then, I discovered he was in a relationship and couldn’t get involved with me “for now” as he said, for now, because he thinks this relationship won’t last. I told him I didn’t want to interfere in any manner, because I know how hard it is to lose someone we love and I don’t want to cause that to anyone else. We agreed to remain friends, since we have common professional projects, rather interesting, that I certainly don’t want to lose. But I must admit I have kind of feelings for this guy, without really understanding why, and I can’t ask for anything since he is not available. However, he comes alone to visit me, we talk a lot through messages, sometimes from me, sometimes from him, about our projects, but also about Art, Music, he shows signs as if he wanted to look good in front of me. I am trying to stay strong, and not to imagine things which will never happen. And by reading your post, I just realized that this guy is another man who needs to be protected, and I am the mother who protects. Guess what ? His mother is sick and dying. I thought because he is older than me, things could be different, but I realize that I am there to protect men, and what do I get in exchange ? So far, nothing.
    I really feel sad, because during a few weeks, I thought I was finally totally cured, since I was able to think of someone else than my husband. But now, I am wondering if I am not re-creating the same pattern, in the American version.
    I am feeling so so sad…

  108.  #108tinque on June 14, 2011 at 7:12 am

    Yael – Awareness is the biggest and maybe the most important step. You have taken this step.


  109.  #109Dillian on July 6, 2011 at 6:27 pm

    Exrtelemy helpful article, please write more.

  110.  #110YAEL on July 6, 2011 at 7:00 pm

    Thank you Tinque,
    I had the time to think about it. Yes awareness…
    I am aware of the fact that I love sensitive men. This man, the one who is not available for me, I see him more and more and I am falling for him. I am afraid to suffer again, but I can’t help it, when he writes to me, I answer, when he invites me somewhere, I go, when he comes to my job for our common professional projects, I welcome him. I miss him when he is not around, I think that is what we call love ? I used the Rori Raye scripts to express my feelings, and I received the same expression of feelings in return, that was rather nice, but we are still not dating.
    That is why I am so scared to suffer again…
    He just lost his mother, and I don’t want to rush him, without even knowing if he is still with his girlfriend, since he doesn’t speak of it anymore…
    I am kind of feeling completely lost here, and I am afraid to make him runaway if I ask for something more specific. I want to keep him as a friend at least because I really love his company and our common professional projects are too important to ruin them.
    An old French friend of mine who is a man, tells me I must be patient with him, that he just lost his mother, that I must let him some time to figure out what he wants with his girlfriend. Another French friend of mine (a woman) tells me he is making me wait and that nothing will never happen, that I am going to suffer by waiting so much. I met him only one month and half ago, and he lost his mother in the meantime. I don’t think it is so long…
    I don’t know what to do. For now, I take everything I can, he is so lovely. I just hope I won’t suffer more…
    It’s so difficult to understand people sometimes…

  111.  #111Physik Spiele on September 5, 2011 at 7:16 am

  112.  #112{Angie on October 15, 2011 at 10:02 pm

    Thanks Rori Raye for the share

  113.  #113Jason on October 16, 2011 at 1:06 pm

    Thanks Rori Raye for the share

  114.  #114Sandra on December 16, 2011 at 3:20 pm

    This article is “WOW” moment for me, Rori! I have felt like screaming of joy while reading it. It’s kinda Eureka moment for me. I could not get out of the that vicious circle of “helping” – then “controling” – then “blaming”… I reached my wits ends recently, went through so much hurt. I could not really understand why – I feel like almost ‘mother teresa reincarnated’ in this relationship of mine… You nicely connect ‘helping – controling’ with trauma. I experienced several serious emotional traumas in the past. I must be brave now. Stop ‘helping’ Heal my traumas. Thank you loads! Love xx