Would You Consider An Open Marriage?

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loveOkay – how far can you go in making your own rules? What do you want to ACCEPT 100% – even if it doesn’t fit with what you THINK should be okay in a relationship.

AND – how can you know, trust, feel good about your other options – alone, without him – without Circular Dating and EXPERIENCING how other men relate to you? For me – you can’t.

The Question:

“Rori, I am glad to say that the criticism, verbal abuse and mind games no longer much of an issue.

The big problem I need help with is that I discovered evidence of several emotional and physical affairs. He doesn’t understand why I would be upset. He was sleeping at home every night wasn’t he? He was working hard and bringing home lots of money and taking good care of me. A man can have his wife and a little nookie on the side, right?

Now he claims he is not doing anything physical but I have trouble believing him. He believes it is all right to lie to save me from being upset. Should I be upset that he is taking someone to lunch every week? I was not looking but saw the charges on his credit card recently.

One option is to get my emotional and financial trip together while seeing if we could reconcile. When I feel strong enough, if there was evidence that things were still going on I would serve him with divorce papers.

Another option is that we seem to be getting along quite well these days and could I consider an open marriage? Lost…”

My Answer:

Lost, I’ve worked with many women in this situation – you’d be surprised how many men think this way (and how many would NEVER think this way!)

AND – there are no rules here.

If you like the financial stability and enjoy his company – why NOT consider an open marriage? Would he accept you taking an additional lover also?

And – how is your sex life? Do you enjoy that, or does all this turn you off?

This is your life. If you can be happy sharing him (without trying to find out if there’s another woman at any given time or not) – then why not share him?

(I know a whole bunch of polyamorous friends – and they are VERY happy! All of them!)

If that’s just not for you, and you feel uncomfortable with it – then you have to consider if you’d rather live alone for awhile, until you met someone else.

So – in that case – I’d seriously encourage you to Circular Date NOW so you can experience what that would be like.

This should be a considered decision – not an emotional one based on what you’ve been TAUGHT is right for a woman.

Have what you want – and make your own rules.

Do NOT expect him to change.

The only way for this to work in ANY case is for you not to care what he does. This isn’t about him.

It’s about making decisions that feel the best for you – regardless of what he does or doesn’t do.

If you love him, and the relationship feels good otherwise – then see what happens.

If he makes you feel bad in general – I’d say CD and take a look at your options. a relationship doesn’t have to be “bad” or “toxic’ for you to leave it.

Love, Rori


  1.  #1Lisa on August 18, 2013 at 8:23 pm

    I didn’t do anything since I didn’t know what to do….

    I sent out a strong vibe and he called…… and we had a lovely evening…

    I forgot to use my feeling messages… but I did tell him I felt better about him making the plans for the evening… but I have to say it is SOOO nice to have him care what I want to do… ask me what I’d like to do! Ask me how I’m doing…order me dessert and let me have more than my share! LOL! ask me If I’ve had enough to eat… how I’m doing… when I said I’m feeling tired… he said I’ll take you home, so you can sleep…

    That felt good… it also feels good to have someone very open about their feelings… open with affection… telling me how he feels all night long…

    It felt easy!

    It felt soft…

    kiss was nice…

    OK how the heck am I not going to get attached UUGGG! I know I know… don’t get attached until you know its going to work…

    OH Man this is rough… non attachment!

    With “M” it was easier I had about 3 dates a week going and I wasn’t that attracted to him… and he didn’t kiss me until the 6th date… but “M2” is so much more open with his feelings and emotions.. and that is so attractive to me… uggg

    Ok I need to attract more men so I can circle date like crazy…. so I don’t get attached…

    cuz man this feels too good…. too easy…..

    so far anyways…


  2.  #2Indigo on August 18, 2013 at 9:10 pm

    Lisa, that is so wonderful for you!

    I feel glowy at the happiness in your writing 🙂

  3.  #3Indigo on August 18, 2013 at 9:16 pm

    I can in theory see the benefits of an open marriage, and I can see how some people would find it convenient, and how it might simplify things for them.

    For me, I think it goes without saying that I could never, never do this.

    I’ve never been attracted to a man who has even a hint of player about him… they make me want to give them a very wide berth. I’ve always been attracted to faithful men, men who were striving towards honour and integrity even if they didn’t always get it right. I think this is how I was raised, and this is part of my “dream” for my life… nothing else would be an option for me.

  4.  #4AmazingMe,R.N on August 18, 2013 at 9:24 pm

    when a man looks in my eyes I want to know i am the only love of his life. I want to know when he is excited no other woman could do it like me cause they are just “NOT ME” That doesnt mean we have to be perfect just in love, happy.

  5.  #5Zara on August 18, 2013 at 10:04 pm


    Tucker Max Gives Up the Game: What Happens When a Bestselling Player Stops Playing?

    Envy is the desire to live someone else’s life, not your own. Now, I cannot imagine living anyone else’s life, because—to whatever degree other men are living like rock stars, and however nice that might be—no other life besides mine has Jena in it. Thus, I want no life other than my own.
    And so, happy in my relationship with Jena, I moved on with my life. I forgot about Tucker Max, and my past rock star envy. I did not pay one thought to either for the next four years.


    But here is the greatest irony of all. Tucker is now seeking to bring into his life what I already have, and have had for nearly four years: the deepest love knowable to a man.


    I told him my history of envy of other men in the past (including towards him), my progress over time, and how I still, every once in a while, got emotionally triggered by seeing alpha men be very aggressive and successful with women in bars and clubs. I didn’t get triggered that often, and not nearly as powerfully as in the past (when it used to flatten me.) But I still sometimes noticed twinges of it, here and there.

    Tucker said: “You’re not resolving it, right. Some sort of analysis or some sort of therapy for this might be really helpful for you. If this is a major issue in your life, then you need to deal with it head-on.

    “This is a very common thing for a lot of people. It’s not just that the events happened, it’s that the trauma replays itself for the rest of their life.
    “It has nothing to do with those guys in the bars. It has nothing to do with those women in the bars. It has to do with healing inside yourself. If you actually did that healing inside yourself, you wouldn’t care anymore about those people and what they do to each other or to you.

    “You may want to be successful in those situations. But you don’t really care about those people in those situations. That is emblematic of you feeling that you failed at a lot of things as a kid. You were picked last, you were picked on, all these sorts of things.

    “What your unconscious is doing is expressing that childhood trauma through achieving some ‘win’—‘Oh, if I’m attractive in this bar to this woman I don’t even know or care about, then it makes up for being a picked on as a kid.’

    “Well, it doesn’t, dude. I’ve sold millions of books! I’ve had sex with hundreds, maybe thousands of women. And I still had to go to analysis! I started analysis after all that dude! That sh*t didn’t fill the hole man. None of it did. I thought it did for a while, and it didn’t. Because the hole was created by a different sort of pain, I thought this other stuff would make up for it. But that’s not how it works. It’s not like a scale that balances out—some bad stuff from the past gets balanced out by some good, different stuff now.

    “No, that’s not how it works. Either you address those issues and you change those patterns, or you don’t. And nothing you dump on top, no amount of attraction from any woman in any bar is ever going to change how you unconsciously feel about things that happened to you when you were a kid on a playground.

    “You have to deal with those feelings directly. You can’t deal with them in a bar. I wish you could man! Because, if it was possible to cure your problems with p***y and drinking and book sales, I would have done it! I would have f***in’ done it, dude! I wish, man! I wish! But I couldn’t. And neither can you.


    “I realized, I wasn’t as happy as I thought I would be. When I started writing in 2002, I thought, ‘Man, if I can just turn this into a career, then I’ll be happy.’  I didn’t just turn it into a career, I was a star. I went farther than I’d ever thought I’d go, and I thought that would be more than enough to make me happy, and it wasn’t.

    “So I had to kind of take a step back and realize, ‘I have everything I thought I’d ever wanted and I’m not happy, so that means, maybe I need to look at myself.’ Maybe I need to figure some of this stuff out.  If everything external is great, and there’s still internal problems, then you have to think then there must be an internal cause.


    “I have all the external accomplishments. I’m rich, I’m famous, blah-blah-blah. But that sh*t doesn’t matter in the context of meaningful relationship. Who gives a sh*t if you’re rich—if you’re a d*ck to your wife or you’re not in touch with your feelings, what does that matter? It doesn’t mean sh*t. What matters is the quality of your relationship.


    “That’s one of the good things about having had all the experiences I’ve had. Most people say stuff like, ‘I want someone who’s blonde’ or who has this education level or is this height. F*** that, that’s bullsh*t. I’ve come to learn that what really matters is the relationship, the quality of the relationship.

    “There’s an emptiness and a loneliness to hooking up so much. You don’t notice it or care, when you’re below a certain age, or a narcissist. But once you develop empathy, once you develop a soul, the loneliness and the emptiness become too much. The negatives start to outweigh the positives. 


  6.  #6Emerson on August 18, 2013 at 10:59 pm

    I’m feeling intrigued by a very open sexual conversation with a cd tonight… I’m practicing vein authentic and realizing I have blocks like “I’m scares if I tell him I don’t want to do that he won’t like me” but guess what it’s all good…

    Regarding this post,,, an open marriage is totally per mtn head and women are naturally territorial, I don’t see how this can work…

  7.  #7AmazingMe,R.N on August 19, 2013 at 1:23 am

    This is crazy I am watching late night MTV and it is reality TV “My Sexual Addiction”. This is crazy a girl wanted her boyfriend to be with her at least 10 times a day. They were fighting over it and his friends were lke dude that is awesome. This girl is 20 years old good family support. went to a therapist and trauma of being raped came out and that was the root of her problem, see never judge so quickly it may not be right in your eyes what another is doing. may even seem crazy and make u laugh as i admit i did, but when it is said and done there is so much more to people and thier actions. That is why I love my job and yes we complain at times, but we are all there for the same reason and that is to help those who have problems all the way to major psychosis to alcohol and drug addiction. I am a RN and love helping people they always say u either love or hate psych..I love it! Trying to understand these patients and develope treatment plans to help them live a healthier life is why I am there. So yes we may laugh and think she has to be kidding begging a man for the nasty all day, that ia serious illness because she doesnt feel loved if she is not getting it. One said he would stay in bed and just shut down not wanting to do anything,felt severely depression, this was a major setback to try and live a normal life. My point is yes we may have all our own problems but vindictive revenge is not really a safe option at all. Unfortunately I am opposite of a lot of people, guys when ity comes to sex could be like yeah anytime, place….namethe spot. i have to find a reasonable in betweentime light

  8.  #8Cris on August 19, 2013 at 2:37 am

    well, for me, if there is a need of someone else in the marrriage, it is a sympton of something going wrong. I couln’t take it in a non-emotional way…
    thank you for the post, it made think!

  9.  #9Sirenity on August 19, 2013 at 3:51 am

    I think the Open marriage could definitely work , IF both parties want it equally and practice it mutually.Once upon a time when i was younger I could not even think of it as it felt sickening and unsafe . My ex husband was proposing it at the time and I felt the bottom fall out of my world.

    Were it to happen to me today perhaps I would accept . I am a different person, less hormonal (age related), with more belief that I am absolutely fabulous and his desire was not actually about me or my deficiencies and it is not about loyalty necessarily. It is instead all about my self esteem being innate and unbendable because it is mine inside of me and nothing to do with what a partner is choosing in his life. I also know that protecting my nest and my children is not an issue now they are grown and I can look after myself. So that potential risk would be less.

    It is however theoretical as we divorced 10 years ago after years of no touch, no hugs, no sex , no love. Would an open marriage have helped us stay together? Quite possibly if we could have negotiated our way through . Food for thought.

  10.  #10Dominique on August 19, 2013 at 5:58 am

    Lisa – This feels so great from you. YAY you!!!


  11.  #11Mercedes on August 19, 2013 at 6:46 am

    No open marriage for Mercedes…that’s for sure!

    One thing that concerns me about the advice here is that “Lost” indicates this man has been quite less than in the past (and still sometimes is…). There’s a lack of respect and certainly an indication of a man who has no idea how to treat a beautiful creature that is his love:

    “I am glad to say that the criticism, verbal abuse and mind games no longer much of an issue.” –

    So now he’s having an affair (or multiple affairs) and believes that’s okay and justifies it…but since he’s being nice, she should consider an open marriage??? I’m in pretty strong disagreement there.

    Open marriage isn’t for me, but the only way I believe it will ever work for any couple is when they have a MUCH stronger foundation than the one I’m hearing about here…

    I’d be out.

    Much Love,

  12.  #12Lisa on August 19, 2013 at 8:48 am

    @Indigo Thanks so much! 🙂 <3

    @ Dominique Thanks so much Yay! <3

    I felt so glowy, I couldn't sleep all night!!…. whats up with that…? Oxytocin?


  13.  #13Femininewoman on August 19, 2013 at 8:57 am

    Beautiful Lisa.

  14.  #14Femininewoman on August 19, 2013 at 9:05 am

    “I was not looking but saw the charges on his credit card recently.”

    I dunno. We find evidence mostly when we are looking. I get a sense that the trust is destroyed. Also the questions and the comment about nookie suggests to me that the writer is in a place where she might be conflicted and would do anything to keep this relationship afloat despite how she feels.

  15.  #15Lisa on August 19, 2013 at 9:52 am

    @FW Thanks! 😉 <3

  16.  #16Rori Raye on August 19, 2013 at 9:55 am

    Zara, Thank you so, so much for that Tucker Max quote – it was incredibly powerful for me. The whole part of wanting to “win,” and always coming from somewhere deep inside that hopes to “balance out” what we felt about ourselves as children.

    Love, Rori

  17.  #17Cris on August 19, 2013 at 9:59 am

    my dear ladies,
    I just read today’s newsletter and I feel depressed and sad. I have done all the items in the Dont’s list. Moreover: I have not done anything outside that list. That means I never experienced one man adoring me (or almost never, let’s give some chance to magic). My men never had the chance of feeling chasing me or adoring me. All of a sudden, the truth is revealed. Thanks for the post, Rori.
    And the truth is ugly. And it comes too late.

  18.  #18Mercedes on August 19, 2013 at 10:23 am

    Cris: In my mind, it’s never too late. Everything is as it is supposed to be right now. Everything that is happening and that has happened is leading up to the moment you and your true love find each other. Sometimes, that means we have to “do everything wrong” along the way…usually, later, we thank God we did it all “wrong” because had we done it all “right”, we might not have found this amazing life we lead. Everything is leading up to an amazing life for you.

    In any case, the past no longer matters. It is your future that needs the most focus.

  19.  #19AmazingMe,R.N on August 19, 2013 at 10:42 am

    Mercedes that spoke so true to my heart that i had to break my silence to tell you. i live by that.Its never too late life is what you give it, if you say its too late it could be be but if you change your mindset you will switch your life all around and realize you had to get here by making choices good or bad. The future is in your heart and control it’s all yours. EMBRACE it, i am still working this daily but the feeling is amazing. I don’t wait around for any man anymore like I have or freak out if they dont call. It was hard to turn around and stop analyzing the heck out of everything but when i did make stop my life felt easier. I found the love inside of me that we all constantly talk about so noone else is made or even feels slightly responsible for my happiness or existance..lol..I tend not to trust people and that is not getting better but I trust myself and Rori and her tools and all of our stories helped me in some tough times but I made it. If you love yo9urself and trust y7oiurself, the gut instinct any red flags or whatever your heart and mind speak to you then how could you go wrong.well u could find a dud but you wont care and if u feel u find a keeper you wont care either because if he did not make the effort or call or show you he was into you then he just wasnt your keeper throw him back. I love this blog i feel so free here

  20.  #20R.NAmazingMe on August 19, 2013 at 10:44 am

    ohh man

  21.  #21R.N.AmazingMe on August 19, 2013 at 10:47 am


  22.  #22Violette on August 19, 2013 at 10:50 am

    I went on a date this weekend. It was an amazing meal, and the guy was really sweet to me, his energy was coming at me and I could tell he wanted to make me happy, and it felt great. I have discomfort because I don’t feel we’re a match at all, and I don’t know if I want to go out with him again (he’s set up a date for 2 weeks from now when I’m back in town), but it was really a good experience for me.

    It’s been a while since I’ve been on a date and I want very much to attract some more of those.

    For today I am sitting with the idea of expressing what’s really going on with me to other people, men especially, and feeling frightened of it, but inspired too.

  23.  #23Olivia on August 19, 2013 at 11:35 am

    @Zara -where does this Tucker Max quote come from?
    @Rori and everyone -kudos for us engaging in this challenging topic!

  24.  #24Femininewoman on August 19, 2013 at 11:55 am

    Olivia I just finished reading the Tucker Max article. It is worth the read. The link is at the top of Zara’s post. Really elightening and eye opening.

  25.  #25BeLoved on August 19, 2013 at 12:06 pm

    For the first time in as long as I can remember,
    I am not obsessing over some unavailable man.
    I feel like some long ordeal is finally over.

  26.  #26Daria on August 19, 2013 at 12:10 pm

    thanks for writing ” and how many would NEVER think this way”

    yay! i felt relieved and i feel smily

  27.  #27Daria on August 19, 2013 at 12:15 pm

    but new positive experiences HAve helped me turn around my view of myself… hmmm

    part of the process ?

    i feel confused

  28.  #28Daria on August 19, 2013 at 12:16 pm

    and yet i can still get triggered that way and see what he’s talkinga bout

  29.  #29Daria on August 19, 2013 at 12:16 pm

    i like both inside out And outside in

  30.  #30Daria on August 19, 2013 at 12:16 pm

    i feel scared im not doing it right and am gonna fail and miss out

  31.  #31Millie on August 19, 2013 at 1:13 pm

    If anyone has comments for my post on the previous thread: 145 I’d love to hear it!!

  32.  #32Veronica on August 19, 2013 at 1:20 pm

    I don’t think I could do polyamory. I love my own time too much and I wouldn’t be able to stick to schedules that accommodated everyone’s needs. There are days when I just want to disappear into a moment and I love the spontaneity of those moments.

  33.  #33Cris on August 19, 2013 at 3:36 pm

    Mercedes, thank you for your kind words … it is always nice to think in future terms! peace to you

  34.  #34Syreena on August 19, 2013 at 3:50 pm

    I agree Rori 14, I felt so able to relate to Zaras post.

    Thank you for posting that Zara.

  35.  #35Hana on August 19, 2013 at 4:18 pm

    Hey Chris- Thank you! But, how are you feeling about things now? I don’t understand, I thought you were married? Can you fill me in on your situation, if you would like to …


  36.  #36Cris on August 19, 2013 at 4:29 pm

    Hana thank you for asking. Yes I’m married and miss something … maybe I am not fair speaking like this my email is

    you’ll be welcome!

  37.  #37Olivia on August 19, 2013 at 4:46 pm

    @Femininewoman -Oh, silly me. just read the article… quite moving and thought provoking.

  38.  #38BeLoved on August 19, 2013 at 4:59 pm

    I feel disgusted at the clutter here. It feels like sitting on a dirty diaper with and feeling helpless to do anything about it because it’s my mother’s stuff.
    I don’t feel I want to live like this, and I don’t know what else to do.

  39.  #39Elsie on August 19, 2013 at 5:24 pm

    Ok. I’ve been gone, but I”m back now. Wow, SO MUCH has happened. I’ll go back and catch up – but let me tell everyone whats going on.

    GS and I are no more. I loved him a lot. But he still wants to have me on HIS time schedule and when HE needs me. I just realize I deserve so much more. I loved him, and I appreciate everything he was for me. He knew he didnt have the emotional bandwith I needed, and he was right. I think he and I will eventually be very good friends. He still wants to talk to me at work, etc. I am backing away from all of that.

    CollegeCD is AMAZING. He is the most emotionally available man I have ever met in my life. He is like me, but a guy. Amazing. His communication is amazing, he is HOT, he has a great job, he has great kids, he has a great relationship with his ex-wife (she cheated but all is good now.), he is so open and free with his emotions – Wow. I’m not used to it – it took me about two months now to get used to it! He rows the boat, and doesnt mind if I offer ideas to go out once in a while. He helps me, he genuinely cares about me, and…….

    …..he said a few nights ago, that he is falling for me. We have already talked about our kids meeting (my divorce will be final the end of october) and that our lives would fit PERFECT together. HE IS THE ONE that initiates all this talk. He has dated SEVERAL girls since his divorce and so I’m not worried about that.

    We just FIT. Perfectly together. He and I have talked about kids, family, vacations, houses, where we would live, our lives together, what we like, what we dont.

    I have so much FUN with this man. My cheeks hurt at the end of the evenings from laughing so much. There is no where that we couldnt have fun. I believe this is what I need in a partner.

    This is easy. Its so easy, its sick. Its freakishly easy.

    We had a bit of a difficult discussion the other night because I got a bit upset about something. I used my feeling words. He was so emotionally there, it was crazy. The problem was instantly addressed the next time we saw each other – HE brought it up and said he wanted to sort it out – and then it was over. So easy, so so so easy.

    He is willing to read, to change, to work on anything. (not that he needs to.) He has read 5 love languages and is so interested in communication.

    I get texts from the time I wake up to all day to the time I go to sleep.

    He is everything that GS wasnt. Everything I needed.

    I know that he is already in love with me. And as of last week I now feel “untethered” from GS, and feel like I can just fall……I have not completely fallen yet, but I’m on the edge of the cliff, looking down and smiling at him below.

    He really is amazing. And I’m so proud that almost 2 months ago I was in such a frustrating place … but it was because I was trying to put a square peg in a round hole, and I didnt want to admit defeat. That the relationship with GS wouldnt work. Someday if he worked on himsef a lot maybe – but that will never happen because he has said he doesnt want it.

    Such a small thing but for example, I asked GS to take a pic with me for a year and a half … he never would….ever. Even though he knew I wanted one for me.

    CollegeCD and I were at a concert last weekend, and he grabbed me and we took a selfie pic of us right there. I didnt even HAVE to ask….HE wanted it 🙂

    Anyway – Im in a great place…… 🙂 Just wanted you sirens to know. 🙂

  40.  #40Indigo on August 19, 2013 at 6:00 pm

    Yay Elsie!

    I am SO happy for you 🙂

  41.  #41Elsie on August 19, 2013 at 6:07 pm

    @Mercedes – LOVE THIS…

    Cris: In my mind, it’s never too late. Everything is as it is supposed to be right now. Everything that is happening and that has happened is leading up to the moment you and your true love find each other. Sometimes, that means we have to “do everything wrong” along the way…usually, later, we thank God we did it all “wrong” because had we done it all “right”, we might not have found this amazing life we lead. Everything is leading up to an amazing life for you.

  42.  #42Turquoise on August 19, 2013 at 6:49 pm

    Hi Sirens, an open marriage would not work for me. I don’t believe I could feel completely open and trusting knowing my husband was getting some on the side. It would damage my self esteem and I’d feel resentful. I would be open to it in dating, but not after marriage. Why get married then?

    Rori’s statement that you don’t have to stay in a non-toxic relationship is confusing to me, in relation to this women. I would consider a cheating husband toxic. As far as her looking at the credit card bill… Doesn’t mean she was looking for evidence, could be reviewing her bills and checking for accuracy. I can imagine how hurt she must feel finding those charges, in black and white.

  43.  #43Lisa on August 19, 2013 at 6:52 pm


    That sounds amazing!

    <3 Yay you!


  44.  #44Elsie on August 19, 2013 at 7:02 pm

    Thank you Indigo and Lisa. I now think a lot of it is chance, whether or not we meet the right person for us (not saying that is CollegeCd, just saying in general) but I do KNOW this…..if you are more emotionally healthy then the chances are it will be easier I think. I think. I think…..

    I know that if CollegeCD had come around a year ago, it would not have worked because I was not in an emotional place to be able to receive something so completely healthy and available because I wasnt completely healthy and available. (Not that I’m completely healthy, but you get my point, hopefully).

    I dont know where this ends up but it feels so incredibly good. And easy. Did I mention…EASY?

  45.  #45Turquoise on August 19, 2013 at 7:08 pm

    I’ve been so busy this summer, hasn’t been much time or energy for romance. Mr. Conversation is still in my life, and to look at us… Looks like it would work and we’d be great together. I’m glad to have him, his companionship… The flirting, fun times and really his friendship. With how busy I was all summer, I barely had time for him, but now life is back to normal, getting in our routine, and I feel like something is missing. I don’t know that I really am open to a full fledged relationship, I have probably stood in my own way many many times…. But I do feel open to going on dates and meeting new men, with possibilities of more. I realize Mr. Conversation is safe, no expectations yet some of the benefits of a relationship… But if I really want more, to fall in love, to be with someone who loves me… Going to have to open myself up and risk getting hurt. Still sounds scary.

  46.  #46Vi on August 19, 2013 at 8:35 pm

    A relationship doesn’t have to be ‘bad’ or ‘toxic ‘ for me to leave it?… I feel ‘huh?’… I feel… Moved. My mind feels absorbing it… And stretching… I feel guilt and an urge to shut down to co sideribg it… It feels threatening… I feel like a kid who’s feeling afraid and expects to be punished if they find out that I like this idea…. I feel uneasy in my shoulders… I love tension in my shoulders.. I love my uneasiness… I feel drawn to these words… I feel guilt because of that… I lo e my guilt… I am stretching my ability to allow… I love how it feels in my body. I love my fear

  47.  #47Vi on August 19, 2013 at 8:37 pm

    I feel guilty to vote for me. And that’s okay. I love my guilt!

  48.  #48Emerson on August 19, 2013 at 8:37 pm

    Hi sirens
    I’m still working on my “me” zone just being all about me and what I need to do for myself to get where I want to be. Not on a step on other people kind of way but more of a self focused and getting to know myself better kind of way.
    I’m choosing to not spend time with to if people even tho it is straining some of my “friendships”….
    Everything is being re-evaluated right now…
    I’m in a position where I’m moving forward in a good way but things are taking longer than I imagined.
    So I’m just reminding myself to stay on course for ME.
    I have been opting to spend time alone rather than with toxic people. Before I would feel so lonely I would hang out with people who were not good for me, not selective. Now I am enjoying my own company much more.

  49.  #49Emerson on August 19, 2013 at 8:43 pm

    I also feel that one of my CDs is a bit hot and cold which I don’t like. Should i mention this to him?
    Not sure how to handle it…

  50.  #50Emerson on August 19, 2013 at 8:47 pm

    I’m not feeling great about my physical fitness right now…need to change some things!
    Men are still attracted to me though…
    I want to practice 5 second smile tomorrow! It’s soo hard for me…

  51.  #51Vi on August 19, 2013 at 8:59 pm

    Guilt feels like a layer of greasy substance all over my skin.. Feels more like cheap creme on my skin maybe.. I can imagine myself kind of washing it off from my skin like paint or sweat… Nothing wrong about wearing guilt though.. I feel guilty to admit it feels sort of cozy and ‘lubricating’ (?)… I feel curious to try and wash it off though just to experiment and see how it feels without it… I feel chills… I love this feeling. I love me.

  52.  #52Indigo on August 19, 2013 at 9:08 pm

    I feel like I’m holding a bunch of balloons in my hand by their strings, and I just release my hand and watch and allow the balloons to float away.

    I don’t want to be happy. I don’t want anyone to come near me.

    I just want to wallow.

  53.  #53Veronica on August 19, 2013 at 10:08 pm

    Elsie – What you wrote was so encouraging : )

  54.  #54Veronica on August 19, 2013 at 10:15 pm

    I’m realising that BM is not the right person for me. Interacting with him is so draining and difficult. The energy flow is stunted at best. It feels like sitting in sludge.

  55.  #55Cris on August 19, 2013 at 10:26 pm

    Elsie: so nice to hear those kind words from you. Thanks dear! Enjoy the beautiful moment you are living now with CollegeCD. All the best for you!!

  56.  #56Cris on August 19, 2013 at 10:31 pm

    Indigo: moved by your words “I don’t want to be happy”. And that’s ok. In our modern society it seems that everybody have the obligation of being happy 100% of the time and this is too much 🙂
    Just be and live moments

  57.  #57Millie on August 19, 2013 at 10:52 pm

    Well….I leaned forward and didn’t receive a response.
    I asked myself why I leaned forward–I leaned forward because I felt anxious. I felt his absence, I wondered what he was thinking, feeling, I made an internal assumption that his withdrawal is somehow tied to the trip happening or not. I realize that I acted out of insecurity, out of anxiety, out of panic for not knowing what is happening on his end. It could be anything…..
    I made my anxiety about him and not me….I realize that was not good.

    I am going to relax and go back to leaning back as I was, since clearly the lean forward warranted no results, no answers, just made me more anxious and contemplative about “is something wrong with him?” I know that is not a good place for me to be. After years of knowing this man, I know that he is who he, who does what he does, and sometimes it has absolutely nothing to do with me, it has to do with his own weird inner workings. When he feels the need to tell me something, he will. I have to trust him. I realize that deep down I don’t, and that is not a good feeling. I wonder if that constant current of doubt is what is causing my anxiety, I keep waiting for the other shoe to drop so to speak, maybe it won’t. But if I throw it down, I’m sure it will. So, leaning back, not doing or saying anything, not making any assumptions about what’s happening with him. Worst case scenario, he flakes out on the trip, I make other amazing plans for that weekend, and let him be.

    Through all of this, I am seeing my frustration and realizing that I need contact and assurance from this man. I don’t feel that with other men so much, but from him, I see my insecurity arise much quicker. I also see that I want a relationship with lots of contact!! As much as having an “open relationship” serves me, I also feel that the label does not change his idea of what the relationship is. He does what he does, regardless…and I’m seeing that. It wasn’t enough in the past, and it’s still not enough now. I feel ready to invite men in that can deliver more. Maybe Im ready to finally receive more….

  58.  #58BeLoved on August 20, 2013 at 3:18 am

    Using fm’s with my mom is working really well.
    I shifted focus from the whole clutter of the whole house to just what I was working on and she was sweet and helped me plus offered to hire someone to paint my room.

    I feel so much clarity now, and can see so clearly how where i am in life right now really is a manifestation of what I’ve been ruminating on.
    I never could really be myself w T, he just so wanted me to be his ideal goddess and I wanted his approval so badly that I repressed the most alive parts of myself, the Super sexual raunchy bold aspects of me that he felt so threatened by.

    I feel so much freer and more relaxed.
    I’m feeling more and more ready to open up sexually again.

    Yum yum yum

  59.  #59BeLoved on August 20, 2013 at 3:29 am

    If also feels so good to realize, everything isn’t all my fault!!!

  60.  #60Femininewoman on August 20, 2013 at 7:03 am

    Millie – it has to do with his own weird inner workings.

    This feels critical, like deep down you don’t feel he is enough for you. He likely feels this criticism of him on your insides.

  61.  #61CurvySiren10 on August 20, 2013 at 7:21 am

    Indigo…I feel concerned about you. Are you doing okay?

  62.  #62Lisa on August 20, 2013 at 7:29 am

    I need to find some circledates…. fast… all these men online show interest… but aren’t stepping up…

    I let “L” go b/c he seemed to have a follow through issue with phone calls in the evening… hummm that’s no brainer… it was long distance anyways… but good practice for me….

    So now there is just “M2” and he called me last night ask how my day went.. ask when he could see me again….

    e-mailed me yesterday ( long before he called ) said he had a strange feeling he hadn’t had in a long time…. he missed someone besides his daughter,,,, it was me… awww

    Ok so negative voices are saying but he is italian… ok only half… but seriously, very attentive and affectionate…

    I really need to get some real live circledates… so I don’t fall into the trap of “getting attached too soon”……

    and I woke up this morning… thinking how crazy it was to stay with “M” as long as I did… yikes… really 2mos too long…live and learn…

    I’m so glad I haven’t heard from him… b/c then that would just confuse my heart… I don’t need my heart strings being pulled on right now…

    on the subject of open marriage… polyamory

    I could do it… b/c I’m secure with myself and my sexuality… however this above situation doesn’t seem secure.. and a true open marriage is based on trust and mutual respect. (not a man trying to have his cake and eat it too)

    Poly isn’t much different… as we all love other people…. it just means many loves… however the line is different if that love turns sexual… and I’ve been ok with that for a number of years… but it can create more drama in a relationship if the people involved aren’t secure or mature enough to handle it… just my experience…. it really boils down to intent…Gina Lake talks about it in her book ….

    I love this topic!


  63.  #63Millie on August 20, 2013 at 7:37 am

    @FeminineWoman 55–

    Oh I didn’t mean that to be critical at all, I just meant that he has his own “things” to work out, his own emotions…..and I can’t always be a part of that. He can be very introverted and need a lot of alone time. I guess you are right, the way I wrote it does sound critical and it is a possibility he feels that…

  64.  #64Dominique on August 20, 2013 at 7:39 am

    Elsie – 34- AWESOME!!! YAY YOU!!!


  65.  #65Femininewoman on August 20, 2013 at 7:43 am

    Millie he will feel like less of a man if he feels he cannot make you happy. He feels good about himself when you feel happy. Does he know if you are happy? If not he will not feel powerful like he is winning.

  66.  #66Femininewoman on August 20, 2013 at 7:44 am

    He doesn’t want a dead relationship of convenience. Addicted and obsessed is what I believe men want to feel.

  67.  #67Dominique on August 20, 2013 at 7:45 am

    Millie – 52 – Loving your inner reflection and subsequent revelations. YAY!!!


  68.  #68CurvySiren10 on August 20, 2013 at 7:48 am

    I just don’t get the concept of open marriage. It’s counter-intuitive. The whole point of marriage is commitment, vows, betrothal. Polyamory or multiple sexual partners or whatever the objective is when having an ‘open’ marriage is fine if that’s what you want or need, but in my opinion, that is a lifestyle you choose outside the boundaries of marriage. Just don’t bother making that commitment and vow of faithfulness if you can’t/don’t wanna honor it. My 2 cents.

  69.  #69Shar Lean Way Back on August 20, 2013 at 8:14 am

    FW, can you expand more on your thought that men want to feel “Addicted and obsessed “

  70.  #70Hana on August 20, 2013 at 8:54 am

    I feel shiny, healthy, powerful and strong, what a wonderful feeling to be in! I’ve always only felt this wonderful in a blooming romance, I have no one special in my life, and I’m amazed at how happy I feel all on my own! Loooove it 🙂

  71.  #71Femininewoman on August 20, 2013 at 9:10 am

    Shar I believe they want a woman who gets into their mind in such a way that his mind constantly drifts to her during his day. A woman who he has experiences with that makes him smile and feel good internally when he thinks about her. She is so in his heart and mind that he can’t help himself but brag about her to his friends.

    I have such a friend in my life who seems to live only for his wife.

  72.  #72Shar Lean Way Back on August 20, 2013 at 10:16 am

    Nice FW 🙂

  73.  #73Indigo on August 20, 2013 at 10:36 am

    Cris 51

    I agree completely, and thank you for your sweet words.


  74.  #74MovingMagic on August 20, 2013 at 11:22 am

    I’m sure my ex didn’t feel very win with me. It wasn’t intentional. In my heart I wanted more connection. I can honestly say I didn’t feel very win in that relationship, myself. I love(d) that guy, but have come to understand that it takes more than love to build a healthy relationship. My work is in understanding the blocks & patterns that hold me back.

  75.  #75Indigo on August 20, 2013 at 11:44 am


    Thank you honey, I’ve had a really tough last two days, but it’s clearing now. I’m feeling a bit better xx

  76.  #76Femininewoman on August 20, 2013 at 12:08 pm

    One of my blocks is in not being able to receive complements. Seems like the thought of “thank you” just completely eludes me many times.

  77.  #77Lisa on August 20, 2013 at 12:09 pm


    I have a different experience and view. For me and my research it isn’t counter intuitive. It’s actually more innate than we think. This is why there are so many serial monogamous people, and affairs.

    The book Sex at Dawn goes into the evolutionary psychology of the evolution of humans and how we became monogamous. It was through religion. Societies enforcement on us based on religious views. Among other things. As far as our innate sense of partnership, most agree it is poly. Our DNA of bonobos and their culture is one of poly relationships. We have very little Chimp DNA. One might argue that we have evolved to monogamous relationships.. If that were true, there be more lasting marriages. We’ll see more poly and open marriages in the future. Has anyone read Ethical Slut? It is the ethics of a poly relationship.

    I think it is like what Rori teaches about things going against everything we’ve been taught (as women by our mothers)… same with monogamous relationships… polyamory it goes again what we have been taught for centuries.. It is of course still a choice between two people. But that doesn’t mean (monogamy) it wasn’t a learned behavior.

    Just my thoughts….


  78.  #78CurvySiren10 on August 20, 2013 at 12:36 pm

    Thanks for sharing your thoughts Lisa.
    I am really not disagreeing with what research shows or the desire/benefits of a poly-amorous lifestyle. I just find it counter-intutive to the concept of MARRIAGE. It’s a valid choice …just not (in my opinion) when you’ve taken vows of faithfulness and commitment only to each other.

    I also think the reasons behind why marriages don’t last goes way deeper than monogamy. But that’s another whole story! 🙂 🙂 If you click on my name, you’ll see what I mean..lol, My partner and I are passionate involved with THAT subject! 🙂

  79.  #79CurvySiren10 on August 20, 2013 at 12:37 pm

    Indigo…I’m glad you’re feeling better. Still a bit concerned about you ..sending lots of love and hugs. xo

  80.  #80lili on August 20, 2013 at 1:26 pm

    hi ,

    h experienced somehow the same quality of man . i love him lots but when i siscoverd the other side with th same excuseses i feel that i am fool , child and he is doing whatever he likes and am dedicated for him and his love …

    he used to translate his behavior the same way , nothing physiacal is goen on , iam with u everday .. those are bitches for fun , or just work friends .. he is addicted to porn ,,,,
    when he talk i believe him .. he repeatted that i am exageratng things to i make problem between both of us while in reality there is nothing from my fears or thoughts …

    he is telling it is normal to lie about this issue not because he wants to fool me , but because he dosn’t want to hurt me or the relation since he knows how i will feel or understand it in negative way …

    i don’t know if he truly loves me or just want to own me !!

    i cut the contact with him when i discovered he is still in the same situation hoping he will try to think of my feelings or his behavior ..

    he begged me alot , but i fade up …

    i care of myself …. yes
    i stop following or thinking of whom he is contacting …
    CD is there …

    but the real problem is that while doing all these steps am still lovig him , missing him , even when i meet other man i feel he is with me ….

    he used to contact me b sms or net , but i didn’t answer …. then he starts to get mad why iam destroying verything in this bad way ….for such silly thing and thought …

    who is he
    he loves me ?
    why i still love him while not acceepting his way of ife and his way in trying to considering all my feeling and reasons r nothing or just different thoughts and believes …

    what to do am between my hear and my mind and feared of breaking my heart …

    pc . contact is lost with him around 3 months

    and lately he is putting profile pic telling being with one better than being with wrong one , never beg some one to love u and stay with u , if thet want u yhey will and accept u the way u r !

  81.  #81Olivia on August 20, 2013 at 2:05 pm

    Yay for Sex at Dawn! Yes, I loved this book. It made me sooo emotional, reading about how much intimacy there very likely was in 95% of human history when people lived in these small bands of several dozen, and children were communally raised, and “spouses” shared…Look at today and how lost we are –that incredible intimacy is so challenging to create now! This is the work we are all doing – to open ourselves up to it, against the trends of modern life!

    It really really spoke to me. The polyamory was almost besides the point.

  82.  #82Mercedes on August 20, 2013 at 2:51 pm

    I think many, many people are monogamous in our hearts…deep in our souls…with an inherent NEED to be with ONE person in a loving, committed, monogamous, tender, fun, stress free, crazy-in-love-with-each-other Relationship. I think I’m one of those “many, many people”. 🙂

    Much Love,

  83.  #83Hana on August 20, 2013 at 3:03 pm

    The date tonight asked if we could reschedule, but I immedietly felt an alarm, and said no thank you. Following my intuition, or rather just so fed up with flakeyness. I feel icky

  84.  #84MovingMagic on August 20, 2013 at 3:25 pm

    Life isn’t one size fits all…it’s pretty amazing to think of the many avenues there are for exploration. 🙂

  85.  #85Elsie on August 20, 2013 at 4:37 pm

    @Mercedes – I am one of those people too. I could never be in an open relationship of any kind.

  86.  #86Lisa on August 20, 2013 at 4:39 pm


    I agree! totally! I loved the book too! poly was just a small aspect of it….and beside the point…
    on a side note:

    it was more about ( my post included) that it isn’t so much an inherit thing as a learned behavior…( so many people judge it to be inherit) whatever anyone chooses……. it shouldn’t be judged as “wrong” just b/c it isn’t what society has taught us…


  87.  #87Zia on August 20, 2013 at 4:41 pm

    Re the post, personally I have no interest in an open marriage/relationship. Tried it, hated it. For some people it works, I am not that person.

  88.  #88Lisa on August 20, 2013 at 4:42 pm



    and if you promise to be faithful in a one on one kind of way… you are correct!

    @MovingMagic yes! my point!


  89.  #89Lisa on August 20, 2013 at 4:49 pm


    cool! I like the site… and I can agree that it could be fixed most of the time… awesome work you do…


  90.  #90Millie on August 20, 2013 at 6:54 pm


    I told him I felt happy and excited that we were going on the trip together and I did really get a response. I think he probably does feel like he cannot make me happy partly because he knows I want to have a family and he doesn’t. He knows that I love him and love being with him…..I’m not sure what else I can say. I know he is not addicted to me. In fact he says he leaves me alone on purpose sometimes…which I don’t really buy into. I guess he feels that getting too close will actually push me away? I’m not sure……this feels twisted. But I miss him, he crossed my mind a lot today and I wonder why he doesn’t want to talk to me…..that makes me sad…..:(

  91.  #91Millie on August 20, 2013 at 6:55 pm

    @Dominique 62–

    Thank you! I feel up and down a lot…..
    Sometimes I feel like I’m failing at all of this, but then I try to remember not to be so hard on myself.

  92.  #92Millie on August 20, 2013 at 6:58 pm

    correction: ” I told him I felt happy and excited we were going on the trip together and I did NOT really get a response.”

  93.  #93Lisa on August 20, 2013 at 7:45 pm


    That’s totally what I hear and read… and believe… ( though I need to set the record straight I’ve been monogamous and still practice it )

    But you are right it isn’t about anything lacking..that is the point.. dead on… it’s not about being unfaithful, or disrespectful, or lacking interest in your partner, or insecurity within yourself…most people that do it successfully are secure about themselves and their partners… very opposite than what people judge it to be…

    Thanks for sharing that! 🙂



  94.  #94Turquoise on August 20, 2013 at 8:38 pm

    Sweetheart popped back in today, calling and texting me, saying he’s been thinking about me and asked to see me. I texted with him a bit to catch up, but I didn’t agree to see him. I realize I need to be more specific when asking the universe for what I want. I don’t want to get pulled backwards…. The right relationship is ahead. I know it.

  95.  #95CurvySiren10 on August 20, 2013 at 8:57 pm

    @Lisa, thanks so much!! I appreciate you taking a look. We’re so excited about it…

  96.  #96Emerson on August 20, 2013 at 10:05 pm

    I took alot of abuse at work today but I stood my ground.

  97.  #97Emerson on August 20, 2013 at 10:42 pm

    I need to spend some down time visualizing my future …I’m havin a hard time picturing it.

  98.  #98Millie on August 20, 2013 at 11:46 pm

    I don’t want a “dead relationship of convenience” either…..I feel like a failure. I don’t know what else I can communicate for him. I feel so sad right now…..I feel like I’m doing everything wrong. All I want is to feel loved and desired and I don’t. Him not talking to me feels like he hates me…….I know that is so insecure of me to say and feel, but it’s true. In the past I used to actually tell him that–that I feel like he hates me….but I realize now how crazy that sounded. What’s even crazier is that I still feel that way! Even though I just won’t say it, because it’s twisted.

  99.  #99Sirenity on August 21, 2013 at 2:25 am

    63 Curvy ..This sounds a little concerning to me that marriage should be kept according to monogamous “rules” with “boundaries” and that is the only acceptable marriage there can be with vows and ongoing monogamy.

    There are many kinds of marriage I can imagine, including homosexual marriage, arranged marriage , marriage for love or for power or family alliance , marriage with accepted side liaisons which are not discussed, open marriages with one or multiple side partners and one main partner, multiple equal partners as in polygamy or polyamoury or marriages who swing for fun with relative strangers.The marriage itself can be civil or religious, for the raising of children or for companionship with or without sex. And they are all valid marriages !

    All of these are valid marriages all over the world in multiple cultures. Your definition does not feel inclusive to me.

    In addition, couples (or groups) may vary their definition of acceptable marital behaviours as they go through life.

  100.  #100Sirenity on August 21, 2013 at 3:10 am

    Thanks for your comments Lisa. i feel good opening up my mind to new options and experiences .

    I really think that women in the grip of reproductive hormones are biologically driven to protect children. Traditionally it meant clinging to a single protector and provider..nowadays we have options and the traditional structures do not endure well in modern society for at least half of us as our divorce rate shows us.

    We are exploring new ways of doing things, e.g. child care centres, vacation care and maybe open marriages ? They probably have at least the same chance of enduring as closed marriages.

  101.  #101Sirenity on August 21, 2013 at 3:13 am

    Hi Turquoise. I was wondering about Sweetheart!
    I like the way you are viewing your timeline.

  102.  #102JulieMaryCarmen on August 21, 2013 at 3:22 am

    I LOVE this post!

    Great advice Rori. 🙂

  103.  #103CurvySiren10 on August 21, 2013 at 4:47 am

    Sirenity, I agree with you…but the common denominator is mostly all marriages is a vow to be beholden only to each other. If a couple decides on a “marriage” or commitment or relationship that does not include that vow…more power to them. I am 100% in favor of that and anything that makes sense and works for them. I was simply speaking to the traditional view of taking a vow that “forsakes all others”. If you make that commitment and decide later you’re bored with monogamy….you’ve got a problem. That is seemingly what was going on in the story that provoked this post.

  104.  #104LoveAlways on August 21, 2013 at 5:13 am

    This article triggers me in so many different ways. I feel like a lit firecracker in a shoebox. I have to come back to this and read it again because I also feel open to understanding what Rori is saying. Breathing

  105.  #105Femininewoman on August 21, 2013 at 5:30 am

    Millie I feel concerned about you. As I read the email that included this “If your energetic self radiates anger and frustration, your physical reality will reflect that as well.
    Once you can accept that your vibrational self attracts compatible patterns, it becomes clear that if you want to experience something different in your life, you must somehow change the signals you’re putting out.” I thought about you and hope this cut and paste help you a little. Dominique keeps saying bring things back to yourself. I use that advice to also work on raising my vibration. I take time in my day to focus on thoughts like “I vibrate high. I radiate confidence.”

  106.  #106MovingMagic on August 21, 2013 at 5:48 am

    Millie, why are you still there? You have options. Have you tried circular dating?

  107.  #107Femininewoman on August 21, 2013 at 6:35 am

    Interesting perspective:-

    “Some women in this situation get the mistaken idea that if they are “loyal” to a man who is dating others, that he’ll be motivated to change from dating around to being exclusive. That kind of “loyalty” is misplaced and I’ll tell you exactly why.

    Let’s look at this situation: He didn’t TELL you not to date others – he just admitted that it would be nice for him if he had no competition.

    He was definitely not telling you that you had to stay home while he’s out dating YOUR competition!

    Maybe you hope that your “loyalty” will win you points with this man, but all it will do is make him feel a little guilty.

    Men who feel guilty also start losing interest fast. They say things such as, “You deserve someone better than me.”

  108.  #108Millie on August 21, 2013 at 7:18 am

    Yes I am out dating others…..Lately he and I had been having a lot of good times, until now, I still see him because I enjoy him and we have a deep connection, or at least I thought we did. I’m wondering now if him not answering me and not talking to me is his way of cutting me out without having to actually tell me he is going without me on the trip….This could all be in my head too.

    Yes, FeminineWoman–my vibe has been off the last few days and I need to regain it! Your last statement about men who feel guilty pull away rings true, not because I am giving exclusivity but because I love him no matter what. He knows he’s hurt me, but I don’t walk away and that perhaps makes him feel bad and he’s even said He would rather walk away than hurt me again, but then on the other hand he says he will never turn his back on me and that I always have a place with him…..

  109.  #109Millie on August 21, 2013 at 7:20 am

    Anyway…..We’ll see what happens with this trip, it is planned for next weekend. I’m going to try not to do or say anything until I see what he does regarding it. There is no point trying to call or text if he hasn’t answered since sunday.

  110.  #110Millie on August 21, 2013 at 7:22 am

    @FeminineWoman 99–

    Yes this rings true for me! about attracting patterns…
    Thank you!

  111.  #111Mercedes on August 21, 2013 at 8:00 am

    OMG Millie! This was sooooo ME “Your last statement about men who feel guilty pull away rings true, not because I am giving exclusivity but because I love him no matter what. He knows he’s hurt me, but I don’t walk away and that perhaps makes him feel bad and he’s even said He would rather walk away than hurt me again, but then on the other hand he says he will never turn his back on me and that I always have a place with him…..”

    OMG! I even used those very words. “I love him no matter what.” and that was a horrible place to be. He knew I loved him no matter what. He *knew* it. And *I* knew it. So the day I finally went over the edge and showed us both that wasn’t true was the day he first really met the real, confident, sexy, smart ME. And he thought he had lost me. But I was done being hurt by him.

    I’m not referring to your situation because I know you have a different dynamic than I did but those words….”I love him no matter what.” give a man so, so, so much more power over you and power to hurt you than any man should ever have.

    “I love him no matter what” says “I have no boundaries” and says “I’m not worth anything better” and says “This is the best treatment I deserve”, etc. It isn’t confident or sexy at all and it is powerless.

    I would strongly recommend you finding out what you really want and really love in a man and then see if this man can or even wants to fit that bill. “no matter what” is a nice thought but that can only be said to a man who you trust has no desire to hurt you or use you or take advantage of you. It can’t be given to a man in order to excuse his less than good enough treatment of you.

    Wow…I’m just rambling here but those words…dang! I just feel in my heart the day I thought “I love him no matter what”. It was a devastating feeling to me. How could I have gotten to a place where I love someone “no matter what” and how the h3ll did I become a woman who had such love self esteem that I would love someone no matter what they did or how they treated me??? It took a while for me to fix that. But I think I’ve fixed it now.

    Peace and strength to you…

    Much Love,

  112.  #112Femininewoman on August 21, 2013 at 8:03 am

    Millie the possibility exists that he might not have gotten the message or he simply forgot. Who knows?

    Still the bottom line is “no matter what a man says he knows that the GUY is the pursuer…when he wants a woman badly enough”. It is up to you to train him to value you, your time and your attention. Being always available or too available will not facilitate that. I would encourage you to go back in your memories to when things were good between you two and feel into how you were being and try to be that girl again.

  113.  #113Femininewoman on August 21, 2013 at 8:07 am

    I believe a man’s ego will not allow you to continually hurt him, no matter what.

  114.  #114MovingMagic on August 21, 2013 at 8:51 am

    Let’s flip that to “I love me…no matter what.” Yummm. 🙂

  115.  #115Daria on August 21, 2013 at 8:58 am

    going to Romania today! woo hoo!

  116.  #116Daria on August 21, 2013 at 8:59 am

    polygamy boy-securityman-bookie wants to kick it but we keep missing each other

    and my new boyfriend Sexyneighbor says when I come back he wants to take me out and show me off

    and also No Name CD is back and we spent time together twice the last 3 days

  117.  #117Skippingstones on August 21, 2013 at 9:01 am

    <3 Feminine Woman. i feel good to read your words and thoughts.

  118.  #118Daria on August 21, 2013 at 9:02 am

    this was exactly how I used to run my reltaionships pre rori!
    ““Some women in this situation get the mistaken idea that if they are “loyal” to a man who is dating others, that he’ll be motivated to change from dating around to being exclusive. That kind of “loyalty” is misplaced and I’ll tell you exactly why.

    Let’s look at this situation: He didn’t TELL you not to date others – he just admitted that it would be nice for him if he had no competition.

    He was definitely not telling you that you had to stay home while he’s out dating YOUR competition!

    Maybe you hope that your “loyalty” will win you points with this man, but all it will do is make him feel a little guilty.

    Men who feel guilty also start losing interest fast. They say things such as, “You deserve someone better than me.”

  119.  #119Mercedes on August 21, 2013 at 9:02 am

    MM – YES!!! LOVE that!!!

    Daria – I am soooo happy for you!! Enjoy each moment! I’m going to add Romania to my list of places to go one day. I hope you have an amazing time!

    Much Love,

  120.  #120Daria on August 21, 2013 at 9:06 am

    I feel so good reading Elsie’s post especially the part abuot her cheeks hurting its making me smile big

  121.  #121Indigo on August 21, 2013 at 10:10 am

    Thank you for the hugs CurvySiren.

    I’m busy shifting some things and playing with some stuff emotionally and internally, and the inevitable healing process that that involves.

    I love having the blog to come to, and I love the concern!

  122.  #122Indigo on August 21, 2013 at 10:14 am

    The next month is for me to be really good to me, organise lovely activities, for me to play, revel and lavish care and good feelings on myself.

    It’s a time for me to be really gracious and merciful to myself, be gentle and kind to myself, and cut myself tons and tons of slack. To actually practice what it would be like to be as wonderful to myself – and THEN SOME – as I would like to be to others.

  123.  #123Dominique on August 21, 2013 at 10:37 am

    Millie – 85 – I’m writing about this right now. I hope to get the article up today. I think it may help.


  124.  #124Mercedes on August 21, 2013 at 11:03 am

    Oh Indigo! This is so, so beautiful!!!!

    “It’s a time for me to be really gracious and merciful to myself, be gentle and kind to myself, and cut myself tons and tons of slack. To actually practice what it would be like to be as wonderful to myself – and THEN SOME – as I would like to be to others.”

    Much Love,

  125.  #125Veronica on August 21, 2013 at 11:31 am

    What I do like in theory about polyamory is the emphasis on communication – that practice of talking would be so good for me. But I don’t want to sleep with people – I just want that commitment to talking, to negotiating, to realising that worthwhile communication is so important. I wish all relationships could be viewed that way instead of slipping into automatic mode. I’d like to view all relationships that way. I’d like to be in relationships with people who view relationships with this much care.

  126.  #126Veronica on August 21, 2013 at 11:44 am

    Ugh. I don’t seem to inspire him to anything. I feel resigned to this failure and am beginning to not care. It would be nice to not care for a while.

  127.  #127Dominique on August 21, 2013 at 12:12 pm

    Veronica – Can you look at this as a learning and growing experience instead of as a failure? Wouldn’t this feel better?

    I don’t think there is such a thing as failing or mistakes, just opportunities to expand and blossom more beautifully.


  128.  #128MovingMagic on August 21, 2013 at 12:25 pm

    Reading past issues on the topic of toxic men, has me feeling a bit triggered. I’ve dated many men who were not ready for me. Looking back it would seem I was attracting my relationship equal. I thought I was ready for a truly connected relationship, but really had no idea what that meant. I can now visualize what that would look like to me, & feel its calmness in my inner being.

  129.  #129redbutterfly on August 21, 2013 at 12:36 pm

    My widower and I just got back from vacation with my mom and my teenage daughter, a road trip no less! He was an absolute saint! Talked to my mom during the drive, played cards with my 16 year old daughter in the backseat and was just accommodating and sweet the whole 5 days. I was in love with him before but after that trip he has gained godlike status in my eyes and that’s a weird feeling. I feel like my heart is going to burst sometimes when I look at him. How do you tell someone that without it sounding all mushy and pyscho because I really want to tell him how much he means to me?

  130.  #130redbutterfly on August 21, 2013 at 12:37 pm

    By the way, I loved reading your story, Elsie. I’ve been following it and I am so happy that you are happy!

  131.  #131Millie on August 21, 2013 at 12:43 pm

    Thank you all for your advice……

    Deep down I know I should not be involved with him, partly because “the no matter what” is not helping.
    I’m wondering if I should tell him I cannot go on the trip and cannot see him anymore. That I can’t be strong anymore…

  132.  #132Turquoise on August 21, 2013 at 1:08 pm

    Hi Sirenity! I heard from him a few times… But nothing regular. I feel good about it too. He broke his shoulder, I feel terrible for him, but I don’t want to be with someone out of pity. I keep picturing what I do want and strong and healthy are part of it. I almost feel like his popping up could be a test. To see if I’d fall back to the attention and distraction from what Zi actually need in a relationship because its easy….

    I’ve caught myself looking at online profiles and saying to myself, oh he wouldn’t want me… He’s too good looking, too young… Too athletic…

    Somehow I seem to have forgotten I’m the yummy pie and seem to be feeling a bit blah. Things went very well while C was home, was a very busy time. But if I’m being honest, I want him to want to be with me, even though I know it wouldn’t be a good idea, I still want to feel like he would want me. The fact that he doesn’t, still does sting a bit. My mind knows its better this way, it’s been a long time…. But my heart still wishes everything had turned out differently.

    I guess what I need to figure out how to do is really put all that behind me and for lack of a better phrase, get over it. I want a new, healthy, beautiful, fun relationship. I don’t want to be tied to sad memories and what could have beens. I feel like I’ve faked it, you know… Fake it til you make it… But not getting anywhere. Getting frustrated with myself.

    In other news, I’m officially the mom of a teenager! 🙂 I can’t believe she is 13! Tonight we go out to celebrate. Going home to primp and feel my best!

  133.  #133Millie on August 21, 2013 at 1:15 pm

    @123 Dominique-Yes thank you!

    I’m debating whether to pull the plug on the trip….

  134.  #134Indigo on August 21, 2013 at 1:25 pm

    Mercedes 124


    It really is beautiful. It really REALLY is.

  135.  #135Lisa on August 21, 2013 at 1:26 pm


    Yes, I agree communication is awesome! and going along in a relationship on automatic pilot is awful to me…poly or not, I get that… 🙂

    and since Polyamory means “many loves”.. I can say for myself that it doesn’t have to involve many sex partners… and I think it is a misconception ( on socialites part) that you have to stop loving someone to not be in a relationship with them… isn’t true in my experience… I really question, if someone really loved someone if they can just stop loving them… b/c they break up… not my experience…

    for me intimacy doesn’t mean sex —- its just that sometimes it includes sex… but that is my 2 cents…

    I have intimacy with lots of people…. I hug a lot, look into people’s eyes when speaking… and it’s all intimacy to me… and some even with other men… I think that is why circle dating is important… you have intimacy with lots of other people…. and some you might even love with out sex or kissing etc.
    and some you chose to have sex with…

    we’re all making it up… what feels right for each of us…


  136.  #136Indigo on August 21, 2013 at 1:27 pm


    Are you going on the trip for his sake or yours?

    If you are going because it’s something you’d love to do and you would have fun, then I say go and focus on those reasons. If you are going because you hope it will change something with him then that is something else to look at.

  137.  #137Lisa on August 21, 2013 at 1:40 pm

    @Mercedes 111

    I get that… and that makes perfect sense….and when my self esteem was lower, I totally can see that… but now…

    and though as I’m processing your post …. don’t you feel that you can love someone “no matter what” still have boundaries and still walk away from bad treatment…

    I mean I do! I said I love you and I’m done! and I haven’t turned back… meaning I’m not going to be treated that way…

    I mean do we have to stop loving someone to show that we have more self love for ourselves then we do them? B/c if we love someone more than we love ourselves than yes, we do give them all the power…

    I told “M” I can’t love you more than I love myself… and that to me is a huge boundary…

    I still love him, but I have cut the cord..and moved on… don’t think I’d go back to it… doesn’t mean I can turn off the love switch…

    I’m just curious about that…. more inquiry ….


  138.  #138Turquoise on August 21, 2013 at 1:44 pm

    Hmmmm…. Lisa, I like your 2 cents. 🙂

  139.  #139Mercedes on August 21, 2013 at 1:47 pm

    Lisa: For me, it wasn’t about turning off the love switch. I’m sure it would have taken much, much longer than turning off a switch. I never lost the love for J the whole time we were apart but I did lose the intensity of that love and I believe with everything in me, had he not changed, one day that love would have faded to nothing. And then my heart would have been open to receiving someone else. At that point in my life though, no…there was no switch to turn off and yes…I loved him “no matter what” and yes…that was a horrible, absolutely horrible place for me to be.

    He lost me after “no matter what” became too much. And I believe that love would have eventually gone completely away.

    Much Love,

  140.  #140Hana on August 21, 2013 at 2:23 pm

    Hi Ladies, Interesting comments!

    I’m trying to figure out a balance in my work. I am the boss, and I work with men, all men. Next to me is the Manager of Operations, I am the VP so even though I oversee his work he oversees his workers. But, here’s my issue, we are getting to be quite close to each other, he discusses literature and arts and business but he sometimes says things that make me feel a bit without power. Like when we meet with clients or if he has an opinion on a call I made regarding a job decision. I am quite take charge in my job, but I keep quiet when he makes the suggestions, because I am the one who will decide especially since I have the experience so far,he’s a little new but he’s learning well… How do I stay in my position without putting his Ego down?


  141.  #141CurvySiren10 on August 21, 2013 at 2:24 pm

    Turquoise, is it your ex (C) husband that you’re ‘not over’ yet??

  142.  #142Millie on August 21, 2013 at 3:06 pm

    @indigo 136

    Oh ABSOLUTELY for me!!! I really want to go it will be fun!! We always have a great time! I have no expectation other than having a great time! I love being with him….
    My desire to cancel is stemming from his lack of contact now. We had an intense night last time I saw him… Where he admitted some very personal things to me that made me feel kind of secondary in a lot of ways. I’m wondering if I’m doing more damage by going in the trip and while many time I have “let him go” that I need to do that again and never come back. Never seems so hard……..

  143.  #143Femininewoman on August 21, 2013 at 3:33 pm

    Millie I believe you are doing more damage by going through all of this second guessing and what ifs and ruminating. Has he even confirmed any bookings or anything? I am thinking just drop all thinking about this trip and this man. Just do the mental releasing and opening of your hands to let go of him and the plans. If he shows up just let him know that you had let go of the thought of going because you hadn’t heard anything, any confirmation from him. Though I have to wonder if you had let him known that you wanted some kind of confirmation and the time boundary you needed for that? In any event if you let go of all the wondering and ruminating that you can set yourself free to go with what you are feeling in the moment in the moment he next contacts you. Just be aware that you could feel guilty and that is not the place you want to be making your decisions from.

  144.  #144Lisa on August 21, 2013 at 3:43 pm


    Good to know… isn’t life a paradox…

    that one thought can either be unconditional love or in my case maybe an excuse to put up with un-tolerable behavior… it’s hard to know unless I inquire…

    sometimes I wonder if, I’m just trying so hard to love unconditionally, that I actually lose site of my subconscious intentions that I might not be aware of…

    I’m inquiring it… as I read your post… I had twings of pain in my heart… and so…that tells me it’s time to inquire how I react when I have the thought “I love you no matter what”….am I a door mat?

    and I still love “M”… but won’t go back to secondary treatment… not when I have a man in my life now ….that so far… has surpassed it…

    I see now why I was feeling ” your crazy if you think this is enough” with “M” b/c he did the bare minimum…..

    Your right! if they don’t change and show up, step up, then it does fade into a lesser degree of love… especially since ( so far anyways) I see how I can do so much better!

    I’m so glad you shared that with me Thanks!…. and now I have more work to do on me….

    Big hugs <3

  145.  #145Millie on August 21, 2013 at 4:27 pm

    I am laughing to myself now. Yes he booked it already and I took the days off work already. Last we spoke he had it all planned out and he wanted to go with me!
    You are so very right…. All this ruminating is the problem. At this point it is happening, because he hasn’t said otherwise.

  146.  #146Medusa on August 21, 2013 at 5:51 pm

    Hi Rori,

    My deepest sympathies to you about Hazel’s passing. From other things you have said on this blog in the year and a half I have been following you, I have been aware how special she is to you. You have helped me so much and I feel sad for your loss. Thank you for letting us Sirens in on this sweet, sad period of grieving. My heart is with you.

    I want to announce that I am feeling my earth move as I go through your Toxic Men program. I feel so many dark places open up inside me. I feel “aha!” and full of greater understanding. I feel a greater sense of power to love myself. I appreciate your work so much.

    Thank You – from my deepest heart – and know that I am with you in your time of sadness.

    Your fan forever,

  147.  #147Syreena on August 21, 2013 at 6:23 pm

    To me this just wouldn’t sit well.
    I believe we are supposed to pair bond.
    I wouldn’t want or be able to cope with that.
    I woule be turned off emotionally. It would be emotionally too painful.

  148.  #148Syreena on August 21, 2013 at 6:25 pm

    Sorry posted on wrong thread

  149.  #149Syreena on August 21, 2013 at 6:34 pm

    No was right thread Doh!.

    Of course there are going to be conditions with grown up love. This feels off to say I love you no matter what. Of course we don’t. We can stop loving someone.

    If we tolerated certain behaviour and had no conditions and still stayed aroung we would not be loving ourselves. What if he broke our arm or leg burned us raped us etc. Are we going to say I love you unconditionally no matter what?
    To me I don’t want to make sense out of nonsense and that just makes no sense.
    I may be bonded and attached but am not going to love them no matter what. I may have loving memories of when being loved and cared for, but then I would have painful ones too.

  150.  #150Syreena on August 21, 2013 at 6:36 pm

    If a man sleeps with my child, or a sister, or best friend am i going to love him no matter what?
    Of course i’m not, I am going to love the memory of who I believed he was.
    And not who he really is.

  151.  #151Syreena on August 21, 2013 at 6:46 pm

    Today I have thoughts about wanting to be a rock star.
    I don’t want to be a rock star.
    I have no envy of being a rockI star or any star with my admiring public.
    That would feel awful, to be on constant show, the pressure and lack of privacy would feel dreadful to me.
    Admiring my performace. Not knowing me and just wanting to be with me.
    And knowing how fickle the public are, the anxiety would feel too overwhelming.
    I feel happy not to be a rock star. I just want to be me and feel relaxed and happy.

  152.  #152Millie on August 21, 2013 at 6:56 pm

    Syreena I really like your comment that if a deal breaker happened… You would love the man he was you believed him to be but not the man he is….. I think that is a wonderful way to put love in the present and the real while still honoring the feelings.

    Man that anxiety is a killer! I feel much better… Thank you femininewoman specifically…. Your words helped:) also Dominique I need to read your post!

  153.  #153Luzydel on August 21, 2013 at 7:47 pm

    So accepted this guy to pay for my internet; wonder if it was ok of me. he insisted i say only if you let me pay back. my electric bill is killing me so I ended short at the end of the week. It all started with a comment, me saying I may go to sleep early because I have no internet. he gave me his card number! Im thinking is he testing me? We promised to have a “present” relationship and help each other. No future promises just live now…

  154.  #154Millie on August 21, 2013 at 8:17 pm

    I’ve been writing on the blog in between working and with each post I want to say more, but I don’t have the time. Now that I’m home, I want to explain what I meant by saying “I love him no matter what.”

    I’ve never told him those words, but I did tell him that I am his true friend and that I will not judge his past or his choices, I accept him for who his is and I love him. I love him as a person, as a friend, as someone who has affected my life very deeply….with this love, I would not ask of him anything I knew he did not truly want or that I knew would make him unhappy. I do not want to create an experience where he feels like he cannot be his true self. I do worry that I put him before me at times.

    Now, that said- I do appreciate and hear what Lisa wrote about being able to love someone and still have boundaries and the guts to walk away. I feel that while I have been saying I feel anxious due to his lack of contact recently, deep down I believe a big part of my anxiety comes from my boundaries being challenged and me not really knowing whether to leave or not. I want to stay and I want to leave. I am realizing with my seeing other men too that I think I know what I want and I think I’m being clear about it, but my actions and words do not line up. I see myself “misleading” men, when that is not my intention. I sometimes feel like I have several personalities that show their light at different times–the bottomless lover, the sassy b*tch, the thrillseeker……I see myself battling with “the moment” and “longevity.”

  155.  #155Millie on August 21, 2013 at 8:21 pm

    @Luzydel 153

    That sounds really nice of him! I would feel good if someone offered to help me like that. Sometimes it is nice when a man or a friend comes to the rescue unexpectedly.

  156.  #156Turquoise on August 21, 2013 at 8:37 pm

    Yes Curvy Siren. My friends that are divorced hate their ex husbands. I’d hate to feel so full of anger and resentment. Maybe I should just accept that I may always have feelings for him, yet still believe I can want more or different with someone else. It’s just so frustrating…. I feel like I finally learned to unzipper my heart, yet haven’t figured how to keep that part of it closed. Oh well, maybe it’s just because its been such an emotional year, losing my mom. I didn’t always feel this way. It’s hard though, he did so many wonderful things for us this summer… My backyard is amazing, maybe it’s all that, hearing him say how he wanted to make me happy… Hard to receive all that, yet not feel all these other feelings too!

  157.  #157Turquoise on August 21, 2013 at 8:44 pm

    I don’t know what is going on…. Tonight I saw another ex… Can’t remember what I called him on here, but he was the guy that I thought was so amazing ladt summer when Mr. Conversation first showed up… ended up sleeping with him and then he proofed. I was soooo mad at myself, really learned a lesson there, not to be pressured, to feel like I am worth waiting for, and to know someone really well first. Well tonight I saw him coming out of a store when I was already in the parking lot, no idea if he saw me too. I wonder who else is going to pop back up. No going backwards though.

  158.  #158Indigo on August 21, 2013 at 9:44 pm


    I think I know what you are saying when you say “I love you no matter what”.

    I love the close people in my life no matter what. When I choose to love someone, it is a for life decision, which is why I don’t take someone into my heart very often. I still love my dad, even though we had a horrible relationship for many years and I don’t see him much any more.

    Loving someone in this way can hurt you, and somewhere inside myself I have made my peace with that. I don’t believe it’s possible to love without the risk of hurt, but for me, this kind of love is something I only bestow on rare souls. I would never hold back the love because of the fear of hurt. However, if someone you love hurts you I still think it’s possible to take steps to do what is best for yourself. For me, I think it’s ALL love, love for self, not fear.

    I love how I feel when I love another, and I love how I feel when I love myself. And I trust both kinds of love.

  159.  #159Cris on August 21, 2013 at 10:08 pm

    and my question is: is there any love wich is not un-conditional? being unconditional is in the self definition of love! look how you love your kids. Isn’t is unconditional? so the thing here with Millie (I think) is if she must Love OR NOT that person
    One cannot love “a little” or “in a certain way” or “with some xonditions”. so, choose who is going to be loved and if he deserves or not that love.

  160.  #160lacey nancers on August 21, 2013 at 11:06 pm

    Hello, Im la cey and i am new here. I had written a few pos severa days ago and i am now seeing them. I wrote a post on .what the talk zwill do to see if i culd post first. I was very glad openin g my emai to see Rori’S Newsletters, and i hop that i can apply them in the way they are intended. I am rearful and excited to be a part of this community and things are getting clearer for me. Im sure i will need to set a pace, i want to be able to get ahold of her meaning.. i know i will need understanding, guidane, and a dash of patience as i mount this journey. Thank you to all for the feedback

  161.  #161GlowStix on August 22, 2013 at 12:40 am

    My love is 100% un-conditional. I will always love a person I love no matter what. It is not possible for me to put a condition on it and say “If you act in this way I will not love you.”. How can I even know that for sure? How can I know My feelings will co-operate? No. This feels wrong for me. Wasteful of my energy. To have conditions floating around my heart, disguised as “boundaries”.

    My boundaries have zero to do with other peoples actions. They are places in which I will allow, or not allow my person, my energy, my time, my focus, my heart to exist. They are areas of space. Big fields and small cubbies. Internal and external. And if I feel uncomfortable, I simply remove myself from that space, and plop myself down in another. My boundaries have zero to do with love. My love comes WITH me when I leave or enter a space.

    It is NOT turned on or off or altered when another person enters my space and acts accordingly (or not).

    The love I feel for a person can fade, over time, and sparked by reason.

  162.  #162Millie on August 22, 2013 at 12:52 am

    Cris–I’m not sure I understand what you mean.

    Glowstix–I hear you. I think I have it reversed. That my love exists first and my boundaries second, rather than boundaries and then love. I hope that makes sense.
    My boundaries seem to be accomadating my love for him because I do accept him for who he is, BUT that does not include treating me poorly. That is unacceptable. Right now I feel his not answering my texts is unacceptable. It does not feel good. I doesn’t change my love, but I feel that I cannot be a bottomless heart in this matter.

  163.  #163Millie on August 22, 2013 at 12:53 am

    Glowstix–I really like how you said your love come WITH you. That makes beautiful sense 🙂

  164.  #164GlowStix on August 22, 2013 at 12:57 am

    hmmm and if a person acts towards me in a violent way they have not pushed a boundary. They have attacked me. I like this too, because my boundaries are something I MUST KNOW I have FULL control over. And I can take that thought and apply it elsewhere…If my boundaries are something I have full control over, how can I factor in others’ actions? I don’t know…I don’t think I can anymore.

  165.  #165Cris on August 22, 2013 at 1:00 am

    Millie, my opinion is the same as GlowStix, sorry if I expressed it poorly. Id un-conditional is a characteristic of true love, then if some one does not deserve it, one have to stop loving. It is not so easy of course…

    all my best wishes

  166.  #166GlowStix on August 22, 2013 at 1:01 am

    🙂 Thanks millie.

    And (((((((hugs))))))) to you. I don’t know your story, and I can see You are on a good path of learning. One foot in front of the other!

  167.  #167GlowStix on August 22, 2013 at 1:03 am

    I’m just learning “boundaries” over here. Still a tiny seed. Maybe a whirly green sprout 🙂 Shifting ideas on a daily basis!

  168.  #168Millie on August 22, 2013 at 1:05 am

    @158 Indigo–

    Yes i see and agree how loving someone in this way can hurt you and give them power over you, but it also feels really good. To love someone truly for the person they are…the good and the bad…and it feels good to know that person loves you in the same way, which I know he does. That is why I stay and come back to him….we have this connection, but it doesn’t always mean that person can’t or won’t hurt you…..So I agree with you in that…

  169.  #169GlowStix on August 22, 2013 at 1:07 am

    It might be funny because I learned to “up-hold” boundaries before I truly learned what they mean to me (I still don’t know 😀 ). I couldn’t define them and yet i’m a stand up for me pro by now lol

  170.  #170Millie on August 22, 2013 at 1:12 am

    I guarantee i have the worst boundaries of anyone on this blog.

  171.  #171Millie on August 22, 2013 at 1:13 am

    I didn’t mean that in a self-loathing light, the way it sounded, i just meant that basically i’m realizing my boundaries are almost non-existent.

  172.  #172Angel on August 22, 2013 at 1:21 am

    I’m starting to realize that the biggest obstacle (or the only one?) stopping me from having real connection on dates is that while we’re having a conversation I keep feeling nervous – and not acknowledging it. I stuff it down while allowing only other “proper” feelings to show. If feels like this journey I’ve been starting this summer is like doing a gigantic puzzle, and, Yay me!, I’ve found the fit for another piece. Or to think about it in a more luscious way, my CD brought the puzzle piece to me and I put it into place. Yay me again! 🙂
    Right now I’m working out a way to tell a guy I’m feeling nervous, the problem for me is it feels kinda hard to “break up the conversation”. Let’s say he’s asking me about where I work, before I’ve answered with a feeling message but one that doesn’t feel 100% genuine because I can’t feel how I feel at work when I’m feeling nervous about where I am now. So I need to –STOP! Refrase that to I WANT TO– I want to be able to answer with now when he asks about then.
    Guy: So, how was work?
    Me: I’m feeling really nervous sitting here.
    ^ That feels absolutely weird to say! “I feel so weird saying this but I feel so nervous sitting here with you” ? Still feels silly to say but perhaps better? Thing is I feel like an idiot for not answering the question in the first place.
    Oh well, perhaps I’ll try it anyway.

  173.  #173GlowStix on August 22, 2013 at 1:23 am

    That’s ok Millie! I get you. It’s a really good realization to make and awareness is key right? Once you know, there’s no going backwards. Start small. Like…Teeny tiny minuscule small. Even these little things will feel like huge accomplishments, I can guarantee! It can be as little as…”I feel bad sitting here doing this.” Ask yourself what would feel better? Go do it! Voila! You have just realized a boundary and done something to move yourself to a better feeling space.

  174.  #174GlowStix on August 22, 2013 at 1:30 am

    I think I can probably come up with a more relationship oriented boundary…

    I am around my bf, and his mood is sour, maybe angry, he is angrily cleaning because his room mates don’t help and he just had a hard day at work and came home, and can’t relax.
    Yuck. I recognize his right to feel, so I say nothing, and yet I feel so yuck around it. So, I ask myself what would feel better? To move myself to another, quieter place. So, still saying nothing, I walk away. I walk out the door, and down the stairs and I go sit outside at the picnic table and breathe and take steps to genuinely relax.

    Going a step further in this real life (actually happened) scenario) I received a text some time later “Hey…I was angry about the house. I apologize if I directed it at you in any way.” I respond “No, not at all. I understand. I felt uncomfortable so I just thought i’d go elsewhere.” I hear back “Good idea! 🙂 coming back?”

  175.  #175Veronica on August 22, 2013 at 2:06 am

    Dominique -127 – I’m struggling with how to experience this as learning and growth – as in I don’t know what to do or think anymore, I don’t know what to shift.

    And this is my headspace right now:
    BM wants to keep in contact, he placed value in sharing, in keeping in touch. But my experience of it so far has been not that great. It doesn’t matter if my previous e-mail has a question in it or an answer to a request from him to send something, which he then doesn’t; I will not hear from him. It’s like a two-for-one deal going on – for every two e-mails I send him I’ll get one. Also I won’t hear from him unless I initiate contact. Last record 2 and a half months until I initiated, previous to that:1 month. Why am I even bothering?

    I’m also becoming increasingly irritated with less than enthusiastic attitudes from people who claim to be enthusiastic.

    This feels like neglect. I’m not feeling positive about having a constructive interaction with him about this.
    And I don’t know if there’s something that I’m just not getting. That his behavior is normal and I’m just being stuck.

    And this is so boring for me, like nothing’s moving. It feels so stunted.

    I also want to do a Power speech of some sort because I am so sick of this kind of interaction. And I do believe I’m being reasonable in expecting that there would be roughly equal initiation on both our parts. I’m not expecting contact every day. In fact if there was more initiation on his part then I wouldn’t feel so icky. Maybe, I don’t know – I don’t think I’ve had that consistently to know for sure.

    I’m also feeling really frustrated with myself for even caring about this.

    I also feel that he would want me to run things and that feels like pressure, like a convenient abdication on his part for putting in effort – especially in the context of me initiating and then having to run the convo. This all feels so knotted.

  176.  #176Veronica on August 22, 2013 at 2:09 am

    Your post has me thinking quite a bit and I don’t know if it ties in with what you’re saying. So what I say here is not necessarily a direct response to what you said.

    I get that one does love after the relationship has ended. The tragic part about it is that the love is now dead, it can’t be active and is not ‘in relationship’. I cannot actively care for him anymore. It’s not that I don’t want to care. It’s that my care can no longer move to him.

    I was going to write more but it’s starting to feel painful/mournful.

  177.  #177Femininewoman on August 22, 2013 at 3:45 am

    Angel =

    Guy: So, how was work?
    Angel: Thank you for asking. I felt so busy/so overwhelmed with the papers on my desk, now I feel so nervous sitting here.

  178.  #178Syreena on August 22, 2013 at 4:02 am

    It is about making a conscious choice about who I allow close enough choose to bond with love. Not confusing love with anxiety fear and trauma.

    Rather than letting my subconcious run me allowing myself to be harmed and bonding with people who are harmful to me. Staying in dysfuctional or maladapdive relationships which are not loving in the name of dysfunctional love rather than a real deep healthy love based on empathy and compassion. Not control and power.

  179.  #179Syreena on August 22, 2013 at 4:07 am

    Glowstix 163. I don’t understand what you mean

    Are you saying you believe you have full control over others attacking you?

    I believ

  180.  #180BeLoved on August 22, 2013 at 5:31 am

    Glowstix – 173….
    ahh….*sigh*…this sounds like a lovely scenario.
    I had typed out all my story about how different and awful it has been for me when I had the audacity to take space for myself with men in the past
    and I deleted it.
    I’m going to internalize your story…
    It is safe and lovely to take space for myself.
    I am supported by my friends and lovers in taking space for myself.
    I love and approve of myself for moving towards what feels better.
    And so it is.

  181.  #181Angel on August 22, 2013 at 5:48 am

    176: Femininewoman – Thanks, it would absolutely feel less weird answering the question first and then saying how I feel now.

  182.  #182Dominique on August 22, 2013 at 5:49 am

    Veronica – 174 – Maybe there’s nothing to shift right now. Maybe there’s just BEing with all of these confusing and maybe conflicting feelings. Can you be okay with not knowing what to do next, where to turn? Can you trust that it will come to you? Maybe not right now, maybe tomorrow? Or the next day?

    When you can release the anxiety around having to have an answer, sometimes this is what it takes to shake things up so that YOUR perfect next move can float to the surface.

    You posed a great question to yourself – why are you bothering to keep something alive that doesn’t feel all that great to you. He doesn’t seem to be adding a whole lot to you feeling good which is what I want you to feel. I want you to want this for you as well.

    If you’re having to take the lead all the time, certainly continuing this is not going to shift it. What may shift it is changing your behavior. So he doesn’t contact you for over two months. Is this the kind of relationship you want?


  183.  #183Zia on August 22, 2013 at 5:51 am

    Millie 170 – you and me both, probably 😉 it’s the reason I lost myself in relationships. have learned how to stick up for me and know who I am so we’ll see how it goes next relationship 🙂

  184.  #184Lisa on August 22, 2013 at 5:51 am

    I’m feeling weird today….

    I have seen that “M2” has been letting me in on his drinking habits…

    he says he doesn’t drink much, one or two and not that often… but since our last date at least several of the 4 days, 3 nights… he has been out to drink…

    I know some people might say that is common and all…. for me…since he is the first person for me to date in 18 years that drinks alcohol… it feels often to me… daily drinking is often to me. 3 times a week is often to me…

    UGG… that much attachment to alcohol feels uncomfortable. I live a very healthy life and part of my practice is to live in a way that promotes my yoga practice etc…

    I don’t have fear of alcoholism… but I can say that everyone in my family except me, has an addiction … my dad , brother ( who died at age 42) my sister and my mom had an addiction to prescription drugs… at one time… it just isn’t something I will do, be involved with that lifestyle again. I’m circle dating and though I haven’t been out of other dates… I’m not looking for “M2” to be the “one” as it is so new and I’d like to circle date more…

    but just not knowing how to approach it… he seems to really be taken with me… a LOT more than anyone has…


    4th date tonight…..


  185.  #185Cris on August 22, 2013 at 5:55 am

    Veronica, I am in your shoes
    so Dominique, thanks, your advice is also valid for me

  186.  #186Dominique on August 22, 2013 at 6:06 am

    Lisa – Have you read my latest article? Though its subject is not about what you are considering right now with M2, I use an example that deals with exactly this.



  187.  #187Dominique on August 22, 2013 at 6:06 am

    Cris – 🙂


  188.  #188GlowStix on August 22, 2013 at 6:09 am

    Syreena 178

    No, quite the opposite! I am removing possible “attackers” from anything to do with boundaries. Saying, I must know I have full control of my boundaries, and therefore applying them only to situations I have control of. I am saying I have no control over the actions of others, and only myself. I was questioning myself on how a violent attack would fit into that, and realizing it wouldn’t. That a violent attack is just that- an attack, out of my control completely, and has nothing to do with boundaries, which I control completely.

    Hope that clarifies!

  189.  #189BeLoved on August 22, 2013 at 6:22 am

    Does anyone have any suggestions for good self-care resources? Website, programs, books?
    I want to take some time off from anything ‘relationship’ and focus on rebuilding my life, preparing for my grandson’s birth, and showing up as the best, most resourced me I can be when I move, and for life in general.

  190.  #190GlowStix on August 22, 2013 at 6:26 am

    If someone is forcefully removing my ability to control my own actions, then boundaries disappear. It then becomes an attack.

    When I originally wrote that the idea is to remove blame, and fault from my shoulders, should I ever have to experience violence again, I don’t want to feel like there would be “more I could have done” just simply because I have a strong sense of boundaries now.

  191.  #191Angel on August 22, 2013 at 6:40 am

    I got some advice from Leo Babauta of Zen habits about “Creating your Habit Environment” and I think that it’s really fitting and useful for creating a helpful environment for the life changes we are making here on the blog 🙂
    * Get rid of junk food (or cigarettes, etc.) in your home and office.
    * Have only healthy things around you. Prepare them in advance, when you’re not tired.
    * Block websites that distract you, if you’re trying to procrastinate less.
    * Join a supportive community online who are doing the things you want to do.
    * Read blogs and books that inspire you to do the habit.
    * Have reminders all around you.
    * Develop a mantra, and put it on your computer and phone.
    * Ask people around you to remind you.
    * Create a public challenge for yourself, to create accountability.
    * Have a habit partner you report to each day, and make a vow never to miss.
    * Blog about it daily.
    * Go for regular runs, walks or hikes with a friend. Meet every day — if you’re meeting someone, you’ll make sure to be on time.
    The possibilities are endless, but by trying out one or two ideas at a time, you can craft a habit environment that works for you. “END QUOTE”

    Things that I do/plan to do is participating in this blog by reading and writing, bringing my planner/journaling diary everywhere, putting reminders all around me (I have a lifestyle change mantra as first page in my planner, I also have a bracelet I try to use as ‘focus’ when I get nervous). I also thought about junk food. For me junk food would be articles in girly magazines (which while done with good intentions often ends up making me feel I have to do all these stuff to be girly for real) and trash talk with girlfriends (the ‘there are no good guys out there’ and ‘omg, what a jerk/dork/nerd/brat/weirdo’ talks). On the surface they seem like fun and productive things to do, but when it comes down to it, those kind of stuff just makes me feel bleh.

  192.  #192Mercedes on August 22, 2013 at 6:50 am

    Amazing Me! Love seeing you here! Re 19…In my experience, this is so, so true. I have literally changed my life in the last 10 years or so from being nothing I wanted to be to being everything I want to be and still dreaming up new things. Thank you for posting that. It totally made me smile!

    Lisa: 🙂 Hugs to you!

    GlowStix: I love what you said about taking your love with you. Beautiful visual for me.

    Syreena: I’ve there with the loving a man for who I thought he was. Sometimes, my perception of who someone is gets a little clouded and I don’t actually see the reality. And sometimes, I see the reality before they do. 🙂

    Much Love,

  193.  #193Mercedes on August 22, 2013 at 6:51 am

    Angel: I get the Zen Habits emails and absolutely LOVE them. Every single one seems to be full of fantastic advice on taking little steps each day to change our lives. I’m really glad you posted that today.

    Much Love,

  194.  #194Alhakale on August 22, 2013 at 7:11 am

    I feel so confused… He was texting, sending me song links, being romantic etc… Sweetness went on for weeks. Then the messages came less and less. He usually tells me good night and good morning but he did not do that for the first time in a long time two days in a row. Then he sends me a text asking me if I am ok. So, I tell him I feel disconnected. He responded by telling me He is tired of chasing me and that I need to text him first sometimes. What do I do? It feels wrong to me to do this now.

  195.  #195Alhakale on August 22, 2013 at 7:24 am

    I’m also having trouble after I say what I feel, he asks why. I am having trouble telling him why without making it about him. I know it is about how I feel not about what he’s done but he stears the conversation in a way that I always bring up the “you” that I am trying so hard not to. I feel frustrated with myself and the more I think about it all the more I panic…. ugh

  196.  #196Mercedes on August 22, 2013 at 7:50 am

    Alhakale – I don’t know how much help this will be since it feels wrong for you to initiate texts with your man, but for me, I do it sometimes in my relationship. In my opinion, your man has told you he wants (needs??) to hear from you first. He probably just wants to know you think of him even when he’s not initiating. In my opinion, when a man tells us what he needs, we are very lucky…no need for guessing what he’s thinking. 🙂 At that point, you look inside and see if that’s something you can give him. If it is, then I would say do it. But…if it really does feel wrong…then my advice would be to tell him it feels wrong and tell him why. See if he can help with a solution.

    As far as him wanting to know “why” you feel any particular way, I remember when J asked me this once before. I honestly didn’t know “why” I had any feeling ever so I told him “I don’t know why but I feel it deep in the pit of my stomach”. I’m thinking “deep in my heart” would have a good effect too. Maybe you could talk to him this way. We don’t have to have “reasons” for our feelings…they just are…and we need to feel them…and sometimes, we need support through that.

    One other thing I would suggest you just take a look at and maybe spend some time thinking about is how do you react when he does initiate? Are you super excited to hear from him? When he gets your responses, do you tell him how much you love hearing from him? Do you say things that make him LOVE how HE feels when he initiates?

    Much of the time, men really do love to initiate but in my experience, that’s mostly when we, as women, are letting them know how much WE love it. If you’re open and warm and loving when he texts first or calls, then he’ll probably come around and may really only want you to initiate occasionally. If you just answer his “How are you?” texts with “I’m fine. how are you?”, he might be feeling a little less excited to keep reaching out first.

    In the end, it sounds to me like he’s not so much tired of chasing you but really just insecure that you feel as much for him as he feels for you. Sometimes, we have to readjust and make sure our men know that we’re crazy about them and are grateful to have them in our lives.

    Hope that helps a little. I feel your anxiety around this and my heart goes out to you. My last little bit of advice…breathe deeply. Several times. Focus on that breath for just a little bit. It will help to calm your heart.

    Much Love,

  197.  #197Emerson on August 22, 2013 at 7:57 am

    I’m feeling amused…my cd is mirroring my feeling messages…heehee he said “I feel open to that”….
    I love feeling messages!
    I have a job referral from a friend! I hope it works out…I am ready for and upgrade and a change!
    I may keep my current job part time …

  198.  #198Alhakale on August 22, 2013 at 7:59 am

    Mercedes- Thank you so much 🙂 You are so right. I just realized I do only respond with “I’m fine. How are you?” I do feel anxiety that I am struggling with constantly 🙁 Thank you so much for your response. I feel the level of anxiety going down. Your advice feels soothing 🙂

  199.  #199Emerson on August 22, 2013 at 8:04 am

    I’ve noticed my monthly cycle really affects my outlook and being aware of it helps but I still struggle with the blues beforehand…
    Has anyone tried a pms detox plan? Just curious…

  200.  #200Emerson on August 22, 2013 at 8:07 am

    When a man or a cd asks me how I’m doing or how is my day I stop and phrase a feeling message….
    I feel tired
    I feel happy
    I feel overwhelmed
    I feel good
    I feel excited
    I feel intrigued…….

  201.  #201Emerson on August 22, 2013 at 8:08 am

    I had to stand my ground with an abusive coworker…
    It took alot out of me…
    But I didn’t let her walk over me…

  202.  #202Mercedes on August 22, 2013 at 8:12 am

    Alhakale – YAY! Men are soooo attracted to us when we are warm and open and loving…and when we let them know how happy they are making us. 🙂

    Anxiety isn’t such an attractive feeling to men. I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with that feeling or any other feeling for that matter. But it generally doesn’t make a man want to get closer to us. Some of our feelings need to be worked through on our own (I use meditation to work through mine) and then, when we are with our men or are communicating with them, we are our best selves and we are ready to receive their love.

    It’s probably exhausting for a man to give love to a woman who isn’t open to receiving it. I think I used to be this way. I don’t think I was a very open person…particularly when it came to receiving…which might be why my marriage crumbled when it did. I don’t know.

    In any case, your feelings are yours and if anxiety is the feeling then own that and work through it and be okay with it. (Some would say LOVE that feeling…I’ve never been good at that so I’ll let them speak to it. For me, I’m good with just accepting it). And then…when he comes to you…let him know how grateful you are.

    And in my opinion…a simple text every once in a while that says “Good morning sexy….I’m thinking of you…” is a good thing. 🙂 You’ll certainly help set his mood for the day. lol Doing it all the time can cause it to be taken for granted and you might start to get the return “Good morning. I’m thinking of you too.” text back…but if you just surprise him sometimes…I think he’ll love it.

    Much Love,

  203.  #203Alhakale on August 22, 2013 at 8:28 am

    Mercedes- I think it would be hard to love my anxiety because it drives me crazy lol… I will work on accepting it. For some reason the more I read my book, the more anxious I feel. I feel fear that I am not able to do the tools right or I will panic and push him away. Lots of work to do with myself lol. This book and blog has made me so aware of the fear and anxiety I feel with men. I am truly so thankful for that.

    I will absolutely take your advice about the surprise text messages on occasion. It made me feel warm to read the words “Good morning sexy….I’m thinking of you”

    Meditation is something I have tried before but I think I will try again. I have a very very chatty nasty voice lol. It seems very hard to quiet it. I guess practice makes perfect 🙂 Thanks again!


  204.  #204Mercedes on August 22, 2013 at 8:34 am

    Emerson – 200 – I am so, so happy for you! It feels so good to read of you standing up for yourself and how you want to be treated! That feels so empowering!

    When J asks me how my day is going I usually say something like “It’s good. I just can’t wait to get home to see you!” or “I’ve had better days but it’s getting closer to closing and I’ll be on my way to you!!!” or the one I sent on Tuesday “Very busy but soon I will be chillin on the couch with my love.”

    I really don’t think he’s asking because he wants to hear if I’m having a bad day via text message. He and I both know we will talk about our days when we get home. I think he’s asking to show interest and that he’s thinking of me. I try to help him see that I’m thinking of him too and that I can’t wait to see him again. And it’s true. I’m at work right now and I can’t wait for this day to end so I can go home and be with him. I feel that way so, in my mind, it’s good to let him know.

    Much Love,

  205.  #205Sophie on August 22, 2013 at 8:52 am

    Hi everybody

    there’s been some great conversations going on I find it hard to keep up – sometimes I’m going to jump in but then I get distracted and then I’m behind ha ha

    Ive had a few days to myself cos CDB (I’m going to actually settle on that name now) has had his daughter and it’s felt good to be by myself; I like to be by myself and I have a lot going on for me at the moment personally and professionally so it’s felt good to get on – what’s also felt really good is that he’s stayed in touch with me throughout her stay and he’s never done that before – I also bought him something for her that he’d said that she’d like and I saw it in the sale so grabbed it for him intending it as a gift from him to her but he told her it was from his special friend so i felt very humbled that he had however indirectly chosen to introduce me into ‘their world’

    I’m with you Alkahale on the anxiety – I don’t feel so anxious with men right now but I quit my job and went freelance and it’s a huge lesson in confronting my fears seemingly every day – it feels excrutiating to be so anxious but I am soothing my way through it and reassuring myself that it will pass

    Emerson I’m also with you on the hormone thing and wondering about a diet/detox I was going to ask about that the other day – my moods too are hugely affected and it would feel good to know how to ease that a bit

    Mercedes – I’m loving your insights – so many gems – I loved your comment to Millie about ‘no matter what’ – I know how it feels like to hit the wall of the no matter what and say no i’m tired of that now – now its all about me

  206.  #206Sophie on August 22, 2013 at 8:54 am

    Also with CDB he really likes it when I text him sometimes – it may be as I started with the really leaning back which flummoxed him he thought I was being stubborn 🙂 Now it’s special to him when I lean forward 🙂

  207.  #207Mercedes on August 22, 2013 at 8:55 am

    Alhakale – My meditation process started very slowly and I was so frustrated with it!!!! It literally took me several months (longer???) of twice daily practice before I even got remotely “good” at meditation. My voice would not shut up. My mind wandered like crazy (mostly making up stories. We call them daydreams but I think for me it was a need to feel miserable and if nothing else was going to help me do it, my nasty voice would).

    I couldn’t let go of the outcome of what meditation was “supposed” to be or feel like. It wasn’t “working” and I wasn’t getting any answers or visions or even quiet time (chatter, chatter, chatter in my head). I kind of wanted to give up but I also wanted it to “work” so much that I didn’t want to give up too soon.

    What I realized was that the more my mind wandered, the more I consciously brought my attention back to my breath. When my attention was on my breath (and I could generally only count breaths to like two or three before my mind wandered again), the deeper I would breathe.

    And I realized that the more often I breathed deeply, the calmer I felt during those few seconds. So…the more of those few seconds I had, the better.

    And I realized that I hardly ever paid attention to my breath during the day when I wasn’t trying to meditate. I almost never just stopped and focused on my breath randomly. And I knew it would probably be a good thing if I did.

    So…I started to focus on my breath during the day whenever I would think about it. I wasn’t trying to meditate, I was just consciously slowing down my breath because it felt so good.

    And I continued to try to meditate twice a day but I no longer focused on how often my mind would chatter or how it wasn’t “working” or how I can’t seem to find that place inside of myself that everyone else seems to go to or whatever. Instead, I just focused on how good those seconds feels when I breathe slowly and deeply.

    And then one day I realized I had found peace during my meditations. And I realized I had no idea when that started and when the chatter stopped. And it didn’t matter…because it felt so good.

    But I was patient with myself…and I still am. Sometimes my mind still chatters and I just bring the focus back to my breath. And yes…with all this practice, the art of meditation has become more and more natural for me.

    Okay…that was too much typing and more than you probably cared to hear. lol. Meditation is my passion and I can’t wait to teach it to men and women in this city who need guidance in settling their breathing, their hearts and their minds.

    Much Love,

  208.  #208Hana on August 22, 2013 at 9:04 am

    Jean- I like what you described, it sounds sweet. What happened with your ex after that text?


  209.  #209Mercedes on August 22, 2013 at 9:05 am

    Sophie!! Thank you so much! That feels so good to read!

    I’m really excited for you going freelance! That’s awesome…anxiety, yes…but awesome!

    And that little space into the “other world” of a man. 🙂 What a wonderful place to be invited to, huh? More and more to follow I’m sure…

    Much Love,

  210.  #210Sophie on August 22, 2013 at 9:14 am

    Ah thank YOU Mercedes – that feels good to read – its nice to hear you’re excited for me – that takes me momentarily away from the terrified and back into the yes it is exciting actually!

    Such a STEEP learning curve for my self confidence – I received a bonus the other day and I had to e mail to check she hadn’t made a mistake ha ha every baby step is a HUGE step for me but I recognise that so am being as kind to myself as possible…I have no idea where my life is leading I’m just taking step after step that feels good but also scary but also strong – I feel very happy that I’m doing it

    Yes 🙂 sometimes I think enough of his time scale and way of doing things it’s not enough and then I see how meaningful his gestures are because they are huge to him and I sink back in to just being where I am right now….another part of my life where I have no idea where it’s leading me but I actually feel really really okay with that (today :))

  211.  #211Mercedes on August 22, 2013 at 9:23 am

    Sophie: you sound really, really good right now! I love the thought of you calling to see if the bonus was too much. Open your heart to receiving dear…looks like the universe wants it for you…you might as well get on board with it too. 🙂

    Much Love,

  212.  #212Indigo on August 22, 2013 at 9:33 am


    I really feel that I agree with what you have written in 160.

    I feel as though, when I love, my love takes on a life of its own. Yes, I still have control over me as a person, but my love JUST IS. This feels very wonderful to me, like nothing I can do as a human could mess it up or touch it. I am one of those people who truly does go on loving through time and circumstance, and I’ve made my peace with that.

  213.  #213Femininewoman on August 22, 2013 at 9:39 am

    Alhakale hi. I did not read all the responses to you but I wonder how long you have been seeing this guy? If it is a committed relationship that has been going on for a while I believe it is okay to initiate once in a while, as long as you know it will be welcome.

    Otherwise, especially if it is a relatively new relationship, when a guy asks why I believe it is a unconscious way to engage you to take your logic apart. I believe if you pay attention you will notice a lot of men use this style of communication. For me I just choose to say I don’t know it is just the way I feel. Or it feels too masculine or it doesn’t feel romantic. Or I feel open to initiating when I feel solid and secure in a relationship. I want to let him know that I am comfortable with the ebbs and flows of the relationship and that I am flexible enough to change when it feels right to me.

  214.  #214Femininewoman on August 22, 2013 at 9:43 am

    RNAmazingme it is good to see you popping in to comment.

  215.  #215Alhakale on August 22, 2013 at 9:43 am

    Meredes- Oh wow 🙂 That explains the way I feel when I try meditation perfectly. Taking it slow sounds possible for me. Just reading that made me feel a little more peaceful 🙂

  216.  #216Veronica on August 22, 2013 at 10:36 am

    Dominique – 181 – Thank you so much for all that you wrote. I feel relieved at the idea of just being with the feelings – it seems easy compared to being all knotted up.

    No I don’t want this at all. When he said he wanted to keep in contact, I thought things would change. He expressed his sadness at not being able to share and also said that he was thinking of me a lot. I thought it wasn’t unreasonable of me to think that he would really want to keep communicating. I can’t believe I’m here again. I feel so duped.

    Cris-184- I send hugs to you!

    Lisa -183- I don’t want anything to do with alcohol – it was around me when I was growing up and so much degradation attached to it. If I went to a bar my anxiety levels would go through the roof. I felt like cheering for you when you said that you hadn’t dated anyone who drinks in 18 years. I hope that you find your way in approaching this with M2.

    Indigo – 211- I love that you made peace with how you love.

  217.  #217Lisa on August 22, 2013 at 1:09 pm

    @Veronica Thanks! I don’t have anxiety about bars… but I do have awareness when dating someone that seems to think they don’t drink much at all and then find out that they drink many times a week… that is the red flag for me…

    I find it funny how I was married to an alcoholic and didn’t even realize it b/c he only drank some on the weekends…. I think society thinks the person has to be drunk all the time to be an alcoholic….

    really the only definition of an alcoholic is someone that can’t stop drinking… period… frequency doesn’t matter…. if they need it to de-stress daily or even every weekend… then to me, and all that I’ve learned about it from AA is that is an addiction…


  218.  #218Lisa on August 22, 2013 at 1:14 pm

    I need help….

    “M2″ called to confirm our date and meeting place. I don’t let them come to my house for several dates… until I know them better…

    and I said what should I dress for, I don’t know what we will be doing… he said..”as little as possible” I’m like half laughing… but not really say OH? and then he said “something conformtable and easy access”.. and I noticed that I laughed in a oh your not getting it this soon way… but also noticed that I didn’t use my feeling messages to say what I was feeling…

    He already knows sex isn’t on the table yet!

    So, since guys joke about things like this…

    I’m not really sure, if I wear a dress, if that will give the message that I’m wearing something “easy access”…. I want to assume trust…

    but I’m not feeling good now… I don’t want to be viewed as a sex object anymore than I already am…

    Men tell me “your sensual, I noticed it the moment I saw you”….. so I have good boundaries… and I can tell them no in a respectful way… but … I don’t know… if I should wear pants to make a point?

    what are your thoughts?


  219.  #219Millie on August 22, 2013 at 1:25 pm

    Well ladies,
    My anxiety attack has disappeared, thankfully.
    I feel calm today. I went out last night with my best girlfriend and as usual we had a blast chatting with some guys that approached us at the bar. Her and I have a great energy together and we always attract men to us. I felt fun and light again and it is always nice to “get out of my head” and feel the difference between being in anxiety land, and being….normal.

    As far as going on this trip with the guy goes….I’m leaning back and seeing what he does, but I am ready to set some boundaries. I’ve been able to set them with other men, but for some reason this guy always gets the better of me….I’ve nailed it to three that apply specifically to our relationship. My only question to myself is when the time is to talk about this…..but I will wait for the moment to present itself, I am confident it will…..

    Right now our relationship feels like soup without a pot, emotions everywhere, spilling over, not getting addressed, no communication happening….

    The boundaries are: (for me in regards to him)
    1. I do not do friends with benefits type relationships anymore. I will not be intimate with anyone who I am not dating and/or is not pursuing a relationship with me.

    2. I don’t want to chase (you) anymore. It doesn’t feel good to keep texting and inviting you places and TRYING. Not receiving a response doesn’t feel good either. If a man wants to see me he will let me know.

    3. I love you and I support your happiness, but I can’t stand by and watch you marry and have a child with someone else. I cannot continue to be your lover and feel secondary while you make future plans with someone else.

    I care about you and I love having you in my life, but I need to respect these boundaries going forward.

    Ahhh this all feels so good to say!

  220.  #220Millie on August 22, 2013 at 1:29 pm

    In regards to #3–
    Just to let you ladies know, after he and I broke up he saw another girl. She is no longer in his life, but he recently told me that he had gotten her pregnant and was going to marry her. I was pretty upset because he has always maintained that he did not want more kids and does not want marriage. So needless to say, this shocked me. He and I were not involved at all during that time.

  221.  #221Emerson on August 22, 2013 at 7:20 pm

    Hi Sophie!

    Thanks Mercedes for sharing with me and for your encouraging comments! :))

    I felt drained and a little bit of adrenaline after the confrontation with the coworker. I don’t want to live like that. I hope she leaves me alone from now on.

  222.  #222Emerson on August 22, 2013 at 7:22 pm

    I’ve been daydreaming about my cd… We flirt with alot of suggestive texts but I am just letting myself be free and I just feel like being flirty…so be it…

  223.  #223Emerson on August 22, 2013 at 10:12 pm

    I just had an anxiety filled evening… Coming down off the adrenaline…
    When my living situation feels unstable it feels soo triggering

  224.  #224Emerson on August 23, 2013 at 1:02 pm

    I’ve had a rough day…but trusting the process…

  225.  #225Zara on August 24, 2013 at 1:37 pm

    In my own life, at this moment, I don’t see the benefit in an open marriage.
    My only reason for marriage is feeling cherished.
    If the man wants an open marriage, he is like telling me I am not inspiring him. Time for me to walk away and work on myself.
    It does not matter that we get along fine and he treats me like a princess. If he should ever want an open marriage, I would get out of it and circular date.
    He would either feel the inspiration back or another man would, either way, I would end up feeling fine by walking away.

    The woman in Rori’s post is wondering if getting good money from a husband is enough to feel happy in a marriage. She wonders if his money and if not being verbally abused “anymore” (???) pays off not being his one and only. She is asking what it is she “should” feel in a marriage. The question would be what does she want to feel?

    The husband is experimenting outside of their couple. She can’t stop him. She can only walk away or accept it.
    It is not about what “should” be but about which situation brings what she really wants.
    Is it their living style she wants no matter what or is it the feeling she is the one and only in a man’s heart. Or both?

    The choice is not really in open/not open for this mariage.
    This mariage is open anyway, he is not inspired to love only her, he is dating.

    Her choice is in either feeling resentful and focused on what she is not having right now ( a monogamous husband) or in accepting what is and circular date.

    If she chooses to circular date, her choice is in how to circular date.

    Either she walks out of her marriage and circular date or she stays in her marriage and circular date anyway, her husband is already circular dating.

    She will have a better idea of what is out there after she circular dates.
    In short, no matter her decision: walk away or stay, the decision should be taken after experimenting circular dating from where she is at right now, married and living with her husband.

    He can call it open marriage, she can call it circular date. However they want to call it, it will help her know what she feels, what can be felt and what she wants to feel and how to get to feeling just that.

    Then, she’ll know which choice is a better risk: to stay or to walk away.


  226.  #226R.N.AmazingMe on August 25, 2013 at 8:19 pm

    @213 FW yes good to hear from you as well. You know I am popping in trying to soak up some wonderful knowledge fo0r the one day I try to get a life. LOL just busy and now healing from an injury so just feeling blah. Hope all is well i see your still giving great advice i am reading. You have a great heart, wise soul.

  227.  #227ArabianLove on August 26, 2013 at 8:23 am

    Hi ladies,
    I haven’t been on for a while since everything was going great with my boyfriend. However, over the weekend I have come into panick mode and I need support.

    He once again didn’t call me all week long. This has pretty much come to be an off and on thing (the calling every other day to no calling at all).

    Then on Thursday I called him and no answer … he called me on Friday after work and I was out and about missed his call when I called back finally he didn’t answer. So Saturday morning I wake up to a missed call from him and I called back and what would you know he answered me ! Anyways we talked for a half an hour about how things were going super well for him at work and how he may finally be getting what he wants. (we talked about me too :p) He told me he’d be working all weekend long on his project but that we’d go out together that night (he’d call back in the afternoon so we could plan things.) He usually keeps his word but these past few weeks he says he’ll call and he doesn’t. It bugs me… So i sent him a message (bc he wasnt answering his phone) about how i felt what he did wasn’t very nice . I left my phone for the day bc I did not want to waste my day constantly looking at it. He called me and I missed the call.. then messaged he was sorry about last night.

    I’m just so afraid that this relationship will become like my past one. Where he doesn’t call for weeks and cancels and pff I just keep waiting. I am not interested in dating other men so Cding myself might be the best bet for now.
    I know I need to talk to him and I will definitely tell him how insecure I am feeling yet Im not sure it is the right week to do it for him to be listen to me. But my stomach is in knots! I am so afraid that he is backing away from this relationship. I need reassurance (constant reassurance) in the form of a daily call and weekends together (every weekend which mind I have gotten most of the time) but one weekend we miss its like withdrawal and I think its the end. I freak!
    Please send me your loving advice ladies! I am so distraught!

  228.  #228Dominique on August 26, 2013 at 9:35 am

    Arabian Love – Breathe deeply, soothe yourself as best as you can, speak up just as you suggested here whenever the time feels right to you, and yes, CD yourself, A LOT.


  229.  #229ArabianLove on August 26, 2013 at 10:03 am

    Thanks Dominique!
    I know he is going through changes at work and it is a very important time for him.

    (Just realized I wrote this in the wrong thread oopsies !)

  230.  #230ArabianLove on August 26, 2013 at 10:10 am

    Dominique … Should I just spill out everything I want even though I know his mind is focused on work and then sleeping ?

  231.  #231Dominique on August 26, 2013 at 11:36 am

    Arabian Love – Work/career shifts and/or difficulties can totally change a man’s mood and behavior.

    If you can wait on spilling things right now, I would encourage you to do so until things ease up for him. If it’s eating at you though, then you will need to speak sooner.

    For example – I understand things are difficult for you right now, yet I have something sitting on my heart, and I don’t want to feel this way around you and with you.

    And then go on, yet be sure it’s all about you and how you feel, no blaming or making him wrong.


  232.  #232ArabianLove on August 26, 2013 at 11:46 am

    Thank you for your time Dominique.

    Your website is amazing by the way, so full of inspiration!

    I will be working on healing myself and taking time for me. Loving me!

    Merci bien !

  233.  #233Melanie Murphy Myer on September 6, 2013 at 11:46 pm

    Daria, I felt exactly the same way . . . 🙂

    26: Daria says:

    thanks for writing ” and how many would NEVER think this way”

    yay! i felt relieved and i feel smily