You Can Circular Date – But He CAN’T

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Here’s a question from Ankita – and my answer is all about how powerful your ATTITUDE is. How you can’t – NO ONE can be “cool” in a “loosey-goosey,” uncommitted (we’re talking serious marriage-level commitment) “relationship.” A relationship without serious lifelong commitment is just DATING. Really, that’s all it is. It may be wonderful, and it may be what you want, and it might even work for you just fine – but it still is just DATING!

“Hello Rori & Sirens

I want li’l help with my confusion on a concept of circular dating/commitment… Unless I clear my confusion, I may not be able to do CD properly…

I happen to read in one of Rori’s eLetters, where she said, “Tell your man you love him and that you can’t be exclusive right now, write a speech to the man you’re with saying that “he’s entitled to take all the time he needs to decide about committing to a lifelong relationship with you, and that you feel awful waiting around, it’s making you feel insecure and frustrated and you don’t want to feel that way, and that other men are starting to ask you out and you want to feel free to explore your options until he makes a decision.”

Then as he attacks us, we say, “Well, I don’t want you to date other women, I want you all to myself. And it doesn’t feel good to me to let you have me all to yourself until you’re ready to commit. I won’t be able to handle your dating other women.”

I am getting confused at is it marriage I should want or is it he I should want? Or both? And if I’m CDing, why should I stop him from dating others? I guess, the answer is coz am ready to commit to him and he isn’t.

I find the below two sentences very confusing:-
1-> other men are starting to ask me out and I want to feel free to explore my options until you make a decision.

2-> I don’t want you to date other women, I want you all to myself. And it doesn’t feel good to me to let you have me all to yourself until you’re ready to commit. I won’t be able to handle your dating other women.

Please clear my confusion. I feel so confused..!! Ankita”

Here’s my answer:

Ankita -I know you’ll get help from everyone on the blog around this – but simply – you want your Happy Ever After.

The commitment of marriage is only one option, but the strongest and the one you most likely would find the most satisfying. This is what you want. You do NOT just want HIM!!!

If he’s not the one who wants more than anything to share your Happy Ever After, then he’s not what you want.

Except in the first 3-4 (okay – I’ll stretch it to 6 in some cases…) months of dating someone, if he needs to date other women and doesn’t yet have marriage on the table…that’s HIS choice – but I’d feel pretty certain by then that he’s not zeroing in on you.

And men zero in quickly – they just may not be ready to COMMIT!

They like the “girlfriend” thing – who wouldn’t! Sort of “girl on call.”

Getting the commitment is a leap of faith a man has to be capable of.

The commitment has to come before he’s SURE in all respects. This is what you want in a man. Anything short of this just isn’t enough.

The second speech happens if he “attacks” by saying – Well, if you date other men, then he’ll date other women…and it doesn’t work that way.

Here’s your attitude: You’re only dating other men because he’s not ready to commit. Otherwise, you’d be committed to him.

And – if he’s not ready, you feel unclear and uncertain if he ever will be, and so you’re merely giving him the space he needs as long as he needs it and taking care of yourself in the meantime.

You would feel crazy and insecure if you “waited” for him and remained exclusive to him – you wouldn’t be able to keep it together emotionally, and you don’t want to feel insecure and always wondering how he feels.

You want to feel calm and peaceful, and you want to feel loved.

You want to trust you are loved.

And commitment is what makes that possible.

You don’t want to push him or the relationship, and so you’re taking care of yourself.

Sometimes you feel confused and queasy and weird and at sea and not sure what to do.

Can he help? What does he think you should do under the circumstances? As your friend and lover, what would he recommend as the best way for you to take care of yourself until he’s ready?

Love, Rori

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  1.  #1Melb(a) Lynne on August 7, 2010 at 4:43 pm

    It is great to get this post… I have a CD problem (opposite but similar) & your answer Rori to the ‘if you do, so will i (cd)’ from the man… sounds fair enough (ie why can’t he, if we can?)… but in the way you portray the honesty around who is prepared to commit (& who’s not, lol!!), but Not Prepared to just Hang whilst he (enjoying your/my company) ‘thinks about’ whether you/me is ‘good enough’ for him to commit to…. I loved the way you presented it Rori…

    I have a similar question.. I am CDing … everywhere.. but at present Guy 1, Ian, whom I’m leaning back from, don’t contact, yet use ‘feeling messages’ when I do see him [& I did use the EXCELLENT advice from Alex Allman’s Interview, Rori… with my Boundaries… so much so in regard to what Alex said we all want (to hear & feel) from a man in that department… Ian actually SAID it to me!! exactly as in the Interview!!!] pphheewww… it was amazing…… I not only Felt Like a Siren [he also said ‘I don’t know what it IS about you [that makes you so sexy to me] lol!! but I WAS A SIREN..(!!!) .. Thank You Rori, for that CD (ie disc!! lol!!) Interview…..
    Anyway Greg a CD guy, whom I like, alot, (2, lengthy coffee dates & 1 drinks date), I’m not sure What To Say??? He wants honesty, he wants to know “i’m not stringing him along”.. he’s had that bad exerience (of being used for the ‘time being’) before…
    Yesterday I said: ‘I just want to take things slow, coffee (dates) fine for moment? Is that ok for you?’ & also I said: ‘Well we both living our lives’ (something like that to indicate, not exclusive)… He said ‘Yes’ but I could tell he felt like I was holding something back… I AM… I’m not mentioning that, although attempting to keep myself emotionally balanced w my feelings for Ian, I do have feelings for him, & THUS I AM hiding ‘stuff’ from Greg…
    Is that ok on CDing???
    I feel like I’m being ‘not a nice person’… & that if we did ‘get involved’… he’d be ‘getting involved w someone who’s already involved elsewhere, altho I’m trying to be less involved!!!… (just like when he got hurt from, ‘just separated’ woman..)
    What’s the solution? Can anyone help here???
    How do we CD, without our feelings getting in the way, causing confusion, upheaval & angst???
    Do I just ‘have less feeling/s’ for any person???
    PS 9.45 am on Sunday, in Melbourne lol!!

  2.  #2rainy summer day on August 7, 2010 at 5:32 pm

    I think he is dating, especially because he has a lot of business trips and travel in his life, and phone patterns which seem connected to those plans. He doesnt take me out anymore and I get jelous thinking of him even buying dinner and drinks for someone else. I agree its unacceptable because I am feeling bad and obssessing and he is away on his trip right now. We had sex before he left which was enjoyable at the time, I was so cool and didnt ask him any questions, But now hes gone Iv got all emotional and after he told me he doesnt want a committment and not to call unless it was an emergency I just lost it and sent too many text messages pouring out my heart and my sorrow last night to which he did not reply. I have relaunched operation do-not contact-him (non-emotional emergencies, business which affects him or responding to his call are the only exceptions). As time goes by my dignity will return. Maybe I just cant emotionally handle having sex with him anymore, so I am going to try giving it up. I will also try just giving him more space so he can ask to see me if he wants too but I wont mention that I would like to see him unless he asks me first.

  3.  #3Erika Awakening on August 7, 2010 at 7:11 pm

    This post feels synchronistic to me …

    I’m in an interesting situation with Vegas Guy. He definitely honed in on me. We are at a deadlock right now though because I don’t want sex without a marriage commitment, and he wants sex from me. I don’t want a long distance relationship either. I either want to get married and put our lives together or “just be friends.”

    He’s staying very connected to me though. I feel relaxed about it, like if God means us to be together then there’s nothing I can do to screw it up. It would be wonderful to have sex with him, still I need to know with certainty that my heart is safe and he is here for the long haul.

    So … that’s where things are at …

    – Erika

  4.  #4Karen on August 7, 2010 at 7:19 pm

    From what I’ve listened to (I was listening to Targeting Mr. Right all day today!), no, you don’t hide your feelings. You show that you like Ian. You show that you like Greg. You get more involved with both of them. UNTIL! Someone gives you what you want! A ring!
    Now I’ll be the first to say I don’t know if I can do that. But I’m going to try. I hold back things that I would normally say sometimes (sweetie, honey, etc.,) unless he initiates them first. I’m letting the guys do the ‘rowing’: they have to call, they have to initiate the date, they have to make the effort. And I’m keeping the water wheel flowing towards me, offering very little in return…take, take take. And it’s HARD. But every time I do it, and I the man then does what he’s ‘supposed’ to do, it’s the extra reassurance I need! So I don’t know if this helped, but I hope you can take something from it. I know this blog has helped me soooo much!

  5.  #5sofia ramos on August 7, 2010 at 9:12 pm

    hi i was reading ur book “have the relationship u want” n its a great book but i need help i don’t know what to do i been seeing this guy for the pass 7 months n he haven’t ask me out cause he said he don’t want to rush into anything but he rush into other stuff and i really falling in love with him n don’t know what to do cause he taking for ever to answer me…is he seeing someone else or don’t see me as a girlfriend on;y as a friend???? or should i just play hard to get????confuse

  6.  #6Brenda on August 7, 2010 at 9:40 pm

    Where is everyone tonight?? Oh, that’s right, you’re all dating while I’m home horny and going nuts! 🙂

  7.  #7Brenda on August 7, 2010 at 9:41 pm

    I am sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo tempted to contact Ryan and Billllll!

  8.  #8Brenda on August 7, 2010 at 9:43 pm

    I can’t wait to go to work on Monday to see Bill! This is nuts! I wish he’d ask me for a real date. But he is definitely leading up to it. I can feel that. I like Bill so much!!

  9.  #9Brenda on August 7, 2010 at 10:41 pm

    I wanna go to work! I wanna go to work! LOL!

  10.  #10DARIA on August 8, 2010 at 1:58 am

    I kept all the money so far. I drove up to chico to visit my guy friend who moved here. We went to the bar. We are having fun. I said lets take the taxi and that was so great.

    I am feeling so sleepy and a lil nauseaus and good and eating a donut

  11.  #11DARIA on August 8, 2010 at 2:02 am

    Melbalynne –

    you are forgetting one thing… that you are dating to get to your happily Ever After. Marriage.

    so when he asks you that, you tell him you are looking to be married, not to be dating exclusively and you are either dating or engaged.

    thats why, and of course he cant complain, unless he’s alrady proposed with a ring and a date…

    Smiles – Goddess

  12.  #12Melb(a) Lynne on August 8, 2010 at 2:51 am

    Thanks Karen, yeah the ‘water wheel’ I enjoy that tool… (!!)… & just believe ‘dating easy’, just lean back, receive, let the attention flow in, let them initiate.. & Stop Worrying [that last bit my advice to me lol!!]… PS I had to ‘tell Greg’ that my ‘reason’ for not wanting to contact him (he asked me why?).. is cos I want the guy to initiate/show interest… (He thought me an Equal Opp Gal, so why wouldn’t I Want to contact him??) But he’s ok re him 2call me….

    And thanks Daria… my happy ever after, my long term committed guy, … so I can just Say this to Greg.. ie “We ‘dating’ until (we?) decide that ‘we are each other’s happy ever after’?” Is that how I put it?

    I’m already ‘just dating Ian’… so don’t really need keep him updated re my dates.. even though he does ask.. & Fri night appeared ‘quite jealous’ that I said I ‘rather quite like’ one of my ‘dates’ at present!!
    So, he does have some feelings… after all..??? LOL!!

  13.  #13Eva on August 8, 2010 at 3:58 am

    Hi everyone,

    My name is Eva and I am new to this blog. I have read a lot of articles by Rori and these tools are really wonderful. However, my problem is that I have been with my bf for 8 long years. Really!!! (brief explanation why I had waited around for so long – we started to date when I attended high school, then went to university etc. so I didn´t care about commitment at all. Besides we live 100 meters from each other – no problem to see each other every day.)

    Things changed a lot this year, when his mother moved out from his flat. I didn´t rush to move in with him, cause I don´t want him to expect me to do everything for him like his mother used to do (cooking, the laundry, etc.) – I wanted to give him time to learn take care of himself and to mature a little bit more – at least a year.

    Now I feel confused. Suddenly cohabitation does not seem to be a very good idea, because we´ve been on and off a lot lately and told each other a really nasty things. I also got the “not ready for REAL commitment yet” speech which makes me feel frustrated, insecure and angry. He still wants me to move to his place when it is furnished (it is not yet and I don´t know when that will be cause he needs to save money for kitchen and other furniture and does not want ME to pay for anything in HIS flat). So I wonder how much commited to our relationship he is (he says I am the one, he wants to have kids with ME and I am sure there´s no other woman in his life – we spend most of our free time together, but sometimes he acts a lot like a single person). I definitely fell in the “girlfriend trap.”

    Therefore I told him I don´t want to be just a roommate and that I will not refuse invitations for dates with other guys anymore (which I did many times during the 8 years.

    Of course he got angry, withdrew and pouted. Then I was accused of being selfish at the wrong time (he´s been facing big problems lately and due to my own frustrations I wasn´t able to be very supportive).

    We BOTH try to work things out but I focus more on myself (visit my friends more, devote more time to my hobbies) but as there are currently no men asking me out I do NOT circular date.

    I feel trapped. Due to financial reasons at the age of 26 I still live with my mother (can´t afford to live on my own) and I am unhappy about it. At the same time I feel confused about my prospective cohabitation with my bf. – Is it a good idea/next step in our relationship OR will I get to another, even bigger trap? I do believe that cohabitation might have a bad impact on relationship (from my point of view in cohabitation there is always 1 partner less commited – otherwise he/she would want to marry – which means the other feels frustrated).

    My questions are:
    1. Can circular dating be effective even in so long relationship (after 8 years he knows me so well and his so sure that I don´t think he might be afraid of my moving on)

    2. How do I start CDing when currently there´s nobody around? I practice in the supermarket, on the street etc. but nobody asked me out yet. Besides, I live in a very small town where people know each other so the boys all know me and my bf are a pair and some of them do not ask me out for this reason – they think it´s pointless when I am “not available.”

    Sorry that this was so long, but hopefully you will provide some advice. Any suggestions would be helpful. Thanks in advance.


  14.  #14Renee on August 8, 2010 at 5:12 am

    Brenda — Thanks so much for taking the time to give me your heart-felt answers to my questions in the previous blog. I do kind of wish I’d read the post about “serving the relationship” in the one post before I txted him, but what’s done is done now and I’m not going to beat myself up about it.

    Brenda — you are such a giver, that I know it’s hard for you to not lean forward as well, but you seem to have the concepts down very well, so if you can keep yourself in check too with Bill (and it sounds like you’ve been doing a good job lately) that I feel optimistic about things with you two…please keep us posted with how things go!

    So what have you decided to do with Balto, given the guilt you feel about the distance and his not having much money to continue to date you when you know he’s not husband material? My date from last night is great CD material since he lives locally, he does fairly well and he’s cute enough that if I end up havin to kiss him (he just gave me a little peck last night, which was a relief) I wouldn’t dread it like I would with a lot of guys…I still feel a sense of guilt with him, though, because he’s a real sweetheart and I know he’s looking to settle down, so I do kind of feel like I’m leading him on, but maybe I’ll teach him something or perhaps he could surprise me with his potential…

    There’s no question that I was leaning forward with my text to Indy guy, but I guess I figure that if one isolated moment of leaning forward throws off the whole relationship, then it didn’t have legs to stand on anyway. Now I just need to lean back tonight and be “sireny”, using feeling messages, which I’m struggling with…last time we got together, the conversation flowed pretty easily since we’re both in the same line of work, and I tried to fit in feeling messages when I could, but I didn’t use many…

    When you’re just sitting there having dinner or a drink, what feeling messages typically occur to you? Mmmm….this drink feels wonderful in my mouth? lol — that sounds kind of weird to me.

    Anyone have any suggestions as to what some good examples of feeling messages are when you’re sitting there having dinner? I mean anything as an example might be good — I really want to trigger that deeper level of attraction in this guy…

  15.  #15Renee on August 8, 2010 at 5:17 am

    Another question to the group about sex…Rori says to be honest with people about sex and encourages us to be sexually exclusive with one guy (or at least that’s my take…I haven’t read “Targeting Mr. Right, so maybe I’m off here). My question is this: if I do end up deciding to sleep with one of these men and continue dating others, at some point, the others are going to make moves towards sex as well…I guess I could say, “I just want to make sure I’m with the right guy” and leave it with that and see how that goes over, but I’m curious whether, if asked point blank whether you’re sleeping with anyone (or how long it’s been since you had sex) you’re supposed to actually admit that you’re sleeping with someone else? Sirens? What do you think?

  16.  #16Brenda on August 8, 2010 at 7:15 am

    Rori, you keep outdoing yourself on your articles…this is yet another excellent one! Thank you!

    I feel I understand the concept and the speech to carry it that much better. Now my question becomes what about when I meet a CD who ISN’T top on my list? I refer to Balto. He is totally into me and I am feeling interested but with reservations. I guess I just get to know him better. I guess the circular dating speech then would be well I am just taking my time to get to know you. Is that right?

    I like him as a person, but I’m not attracted to him physically and he has serious health issues and is on disability. I like him and he has a soft, sweet heart, but I don’t know if I want to commit to a man who is on the fast track to a heart attack. Plus of course I have far more interest in Bill.

    I intend to ride it out, but if Rori or anyone has any input, I’d appreciate it. I’ll probably be seeing him next weekend.

  17.  #17Brenda on August 8, 2010 at 7:31 am


    Thank you so much for your kind comments! Yes, I guess being a giver and leaning forward tend to go hand in hand! As I am seriously moving into circular dating, I’m finding that applying the principles I am coming to understand is a lot more challenging than understanding the principles.

    As a simple analogy, it’s like being given instructions how to drive stick shift! Someone could explain it to me in detail, how the gears engage when I let out the clutch, how to coordinate the clutch, brake, and accelerator. Then I could parrot back the instructions.

    But when I get behind the wheel, watch out! The car lurches, then stalls out cuz I popped the clutch! It’s not so easy until you get practice at it. But I want to learn to drive a man’s stick shift, so it’s all good! 😛

    I am reasoning about Balto that, whether or not he is aware of it, this is also free therapy for him. So I am not “wasting” his time and money, even if I don’t end up marrying him.

    The fact is we are dating 3-5 men at a time, so it is a given that we will not marry 3-5 men. There will be some who do not qualify. But that is what dating is for, to get to know them and let one prove himself. It is a highly intelligent method of dating, and I intend to indulge.

    I really want to have it down in order to pass on to my nieces, too! It’s funny, I’m over 25 yrs older than them, and we are exchanging notes on dating! LOL! I hope to give them each one of Rori’s programs for Christmas!

  18.  #18Brenda on August 8, 2010 at 7:36 am


    About sex, you are not under any obligation to answer if a man asks you that. I have always felt invaded when a man asks me that. I answer if it feels right, but most of the time it doesn’t. Just say confidently, “I’m sorry, that’s a personal question. I don’t feel comfortable discussing that with you.”

    If he pushes you beyond that, he’s a rude jerk. And some men do push. Beyond that, it’s tricky, and Rori explains the ins and outs a lot better than I ever could. I forget which thread it’s on, but one of her threads is about that topic.

    For myself, I am going to just date with no sex until I have a ring on my finger. I feel safest that way all around.

  19.  #19Brenda on August 8, 2010 at 7:47 am

    Renee, I almost forgot…you asked about feeling messages when you’re sitting at dinner. Let him lead in the conversation. If there is an uncomfortable silence, let him bail the boat. If it becomes too pronounced, you can say, “I feel uncomfortable with the silence.”

    So don’t just come up with feeling messages to fill in the silence. At least, that’s my understanding. One thing I was thinking of doing is if I was holding my cell phone on a date, and he commented on my phone in some way, I could say this:

    “My phone feels like a friend in my pocket! I love the feel of the smooth glass under my thumbs. I like to feel that all my friends and family are so close!”

    Let’s say he says, “How are you doing?” as a means of checking in with you now and then throughout the date…

    “I feel so relaxed and happy, and I love to be with you!”

    One time I was sitting with Ryan at the table, and when my customary nervousness arose, I reminded myself of my Modern Siren visualization tools. I have always thought of myself as a mermaid, because I am an avid swimmer and I feel graceful under water! So I was visualizing myself as a mermaid to relax me in his presence when he asked, “What are you thinking about?”

    It was perfect! I said, “Mermaids, cuz I’m a mermaid. I was picturing swimming all around under water and feeling all cool and graceful!”

    You could go lots of places with that, if he asks what you’re thinking about or something similar:

    I am thinking about air, and how soft it feels when wind brushes my arms.

    I was in my flower garden today, and I was thinking about how I loved being a part of the earth as I dug my fingers into the moist dirt. I feel so happy when I look at flowers!

  20.  #20Brenda on August 8, 2010 at 7:52 am

    When I’m in conversation with Bill, he really keeps it moving, so it’s hard for me to remember all that in the moment. I am practicing leaning back and slowing down my speech, pausing to think before I speak. I am never quite sure what to say when he says something deep on a biological level, because he’s a scientist. So far, I say, “Hmmm, interesting!” Then if I have anything related to say, I do. But sometimes he is just teaching me stuff he knows, or sharing his viewpoint about the lifestyle of humans, and how far we’ve gotten away from nature.

    I could say something like, “I feel at peace with myself when I’m close to nature, and I drink in all the tranquility and harmony of nature.” Yeah, I gotta think on my feet now, cuz that man really knows how to keep a conversation going! Ah! I’m crazy about him!

  21.  #21aprilshowers on August 8, 2010 at 7:52 am


    Here are a few feeling messages I have used with guys on dates:
    I feel so hungry.
    I feel so excited about trying out a new restaurant.
    I feel neglected. (I used this when my date was walking a little to fast and I was in heels. Then, I walked even slower!)
    I feel ignored. (I used this when a guy kept texting and taking phone calls at dinner.)
    It feels good to see you.
    It feels good to spend time with you.
    I feel sleepy.
    I feel disconnected from you.
    I feel really connected to you.
    I feel passionate about what I do (ie. job).
    I feel my stomach growling.
    My stomach feels so full.
    Going for a walk after dinner would feel good.
    This conversation feels one-sided.
    It feels so good to drink something cold.
    I feel frustrated about our bad service.

    As for sex, you could say:
    I feel really attracted to you, but I don’t feel like I know you well enough to have sex.
    I don’t feel ready for sex with you.
    I feel pressured.
    I feel turned off when a guy rushes sex.
    I feel uncomfortable having sex outside of a committed relationship.

    Good luck!

  22.  #22aprilshowers on August 8, 2010 at 8:04 am


    I misread your sex question.

    You could say:
    I feel uncomfortable talking about my other dates.
    I feel a little weird talking about sex so soon.

    Or you could simply say,
    Yes. I’m sleeping with someone else.
    It’s been X months/years/days since I had sex last.

    On Recommit Your Relationship, Rori talks at length about not avoiding or re-formatting a man’s question. If he’s rowing the boat, lean back and answer his question.

    Hope this helps!

  23.  #23Erika Awakening on August 8, 2010 at 8:38 am

    Personally, I find that feeling messages are helpful but not enough.

  24.  #24Renee on August 8, 2010 at 9:10 am

    Erika, what do you mean by ‘feeling messages are not enough’? You mean not enough to fill the entire conversation? If that’s what you mean, I agree 100% — there’s no way I can or would even want to fill an entire conversation with just ‘I feel xyz’…I like to also talk about things going on in our lives and talk about our values and dreams…I ask people a lot of questions to. (I used to work as a reporter in my mid-20’s, so I’m good at coming up with questions.)

    Or did you mean that feeling messages weren’t enough to forge the emotional bond with someone that you want/need in a love relationship? I’m unsure about that yet, as I’ve just started trying to use them, but I guess we’ll see how my practice goes…

  25.  #25Erika Awakening on August 8, 2010 at 9:13 am

    They’re not enough in two ways, at least.

    First, they are not flirtatious enough to keep the sexual tension high in a relationship, which is required to keep super high quality men who have a lot of options interested.

    Second, consider that men have been “trained” by an entire generation of masculine women. Is he really going to “get it” unless you help him understand where you’re coming from on all this?

    Brenda, your no sex until permanent commitment resonates with me. That’s where I find myself also.

    So does your love of flowers 😉

    Vegas Guy asked me for exclusivity, and even seemed to be offering forever in some moments, in other moments temporary exclusivity … I’m holding out for marriage to show that he really means it.

    I told him: “I don’t want to have uncommitted sex. And I don’t want to be committed to any man unless it’s permanent.”

  26.  #26Karen on August 8, 2010 at 9:15 am

    I agree, obviously you can’t start every sentence you say with ‘I feel…’, it’s just too strange. What I did was do a google search for first questions to ask on a date. Not they typical where do you work, what do you do for fun, blah blah, here is a link:
    They are not just romantic questions, although there are definitely some of those there. But there are some questions that can help break the ice. I’ve been doing 20 questions with a few of my CD’s, it’s fun and you find out alot about the guy.

  27.  #27Renee on August 8, 2010 at 9:16 am

    Aprilshowers — thanks for all your suggestions. I’ll be sure to try to use some of them tonight. With Indy guy, we’re both do the same kind of work, so it’s natural for us to share stories about our work adventures and I definitely enjoy the fact that he can get where I’m coming from when I do talk about work, but I want us to form a more emotional bond, so I really need to use several feeling messages tonight.

    I don’t see how on earth I could ever feel comfortable admitting to one guy that I was sleeping with another guy…I guess I really need to read “Targeting Mr. Right” to get more of my questions about that answered, but Brenda mentioned that Rori had some good posts about that on the blog, so I’m going to search in there too.

  28.  #28Erika Awakening on August 8, 2010 at 9:23 am

    Yeah, I blogged about this recently, because I personally find it’s a mistake to “play it safe” with conventional first date questions … but I’m curious what you think …

    (I just checked your link, Karen, and some of those questions sounded like they could be high energy, fun conversations, others sounded like they’d go nowhere and lead to boredom or stereotypical answers)

    with Vegas Guy, for example, one of the reasons we made such a fast deep connection is that neither of us played it safe in our first encounter. We were talking about marriage and threesomes within the first half hour of conversation. And we were both challenging each other a bit … this kind of edginess amps up the sexual tension and intrigue a LOT.

    It brings aliveness into the connection.

  29.  #29Erika Awakening on August 8, 2010 at 9:27 am


    Both. I find that using feeling messages with the hope that the guy is going to understand what I want from him is not effective.

    Using them at moments of conflict where it seems we are misunderstanding each other and he gets defensive = very effective.

    Using them with the hope that he’s going to understand what I want and don’t want in a relationship and what I expect of him = not effective.

  30.  #30Karen on August 8, 2010 at 9:31 am

    @ Erika, I totally agree! If the conversation turns sexual, before you know it you’re making out with the guy. Better to stick w/ non-sexual questions at the start, no doubt about it. I’ve chatted with guys on POF that start the 3some talk within a few questions, lol. Obviously they’re looking for only one thing, but it does help weed them out. 🙂

  31.  #31Karen on August 8, 2010 at 9:32 am

    @ Renee, I agree with Erika. The feeling messages can’t be argued with, because you’re stating your feelings! And if the guy can’t value your feelings, then hasta la vista, baby!

  32.  #32Renee on August 8, 2010 at 9:33 am

    Brenda — Yes, it’s definitely easier to know what to do than it is to do it, lol.

    Regaring sex, I think I could feel comfortable saying, “That’s a pretty personal question and I don’t really feel comfortable discussing that with you right now,” but I do believe that would lead a man to think I was sleeping with someone else (if the question he asked was either “how long has it been” (since you last had sex)? or “are you sexually involved with anyone else right now?”. If the situation were reversed and I were pretty interested in a guy, I would want to know whether he was sleeping with anyone else and if he avoided the question, that would lead me to believe he was, you know? What do you think?

    I can usually get the information I want, though, by asking other questions that aren’t quite as personal…I feel comfortable, for example, asking if he’s been dating a lot lately, and the guy will usually volunteer the information about his most recent dates (when they were, whether he’s planning on going out with them again). This, of course, only seems to work well if you’re on the first or second date because there’s no assumption that I would be seeking some type of exclusivity at that point, so I think the man feels free to answer honestly. Also, when I ask a man what he’s looking for, he often volunteers information about recent dating failures and how long it’s been since he was in a relationship, so that’s helpful too.

    In the case of Indy guy, I’m apparently the first person he’s kissed in several months, so it feels good to know (at least as of Tuesday night) that he’s not sexually involved with anyone else. The guy from last night apparently hasn’t met anyone he’s wanted to go on a 2nd date with for months and since he seems fairly religious, I think it’s safe to assume he’s not sexually involved with anyone else right now either. Now I just need to line up a 3rd guy like that to date, and I’ll be set…

    I think your attitude with Balto is healthy…just because you’re dating him, it doesn’t mean you have to consider marrying him…men have been doing that to women for centuries — it’s about time we turn the tables on them!

    Have you had much contact with Ryan lately? How do you feel about that?

  33.  #33Erika Awakening on August 8, 2010 at 9:35 am

    @Karen, lol, I don’t think I communicated very clearly … the talking about threesomes in the first conversation was a GOOD thing … we very quickly learned about each other’s values and what we are looking for … AND it kept the sexual tension high … AND we forged such a close connection in three hours that of the over 1000 women he’s hooked up with, I’m the one he’s long term interested in … first one since his girlfriend in college, he says.


  34.  #34Karen on August 8, 2010 at 9:38 am

    @ Erika, LOL! I agree with you though! Now that I think about it, I’ve talked to the guys I’m seeing about ‘other’ guys who bring up the 3somes, sex w/in 3 dates, all that, and find out they don’t like it either! So yes, it does help. And lets face it, we’re adults. We’ve all had sex. It’s not really a taboo subject, especially if you have kids, lol. It helps to understand each other very quickly to see if you are on the same wavelength. Great point, Erika!

  35.  #35Rori Raye on August 8, 2010 at 9:46 am

    Erika – so glad to have you back here!! Wishing you a fabulous forever (if that’s what you want) time with Vegas Man – and my only tweak here is that we’re all different – and most of us just don’t have the kind of personality, confidence and experience with men – if we’re just starting out Circular Dating “properly” – to do much of anything “flirtatious” AUTHENTICALLY right off the bat – so I very specifically focus on baby-step ways to tell the truth, to be IN our bodies and working to feel “relaxed” and focus on being ourselves – and let that confidence and experience grow ORGANICALLY. As you PRACTICE with men, your own genuine personality and quirks – the things you may have hidden before – will start to emerge – and then there you are – UNIQUE!! Love, Rori

  36.  #36Rori Raye on August 8, 2010 at 9:47 am

    Eva – welcome – and the way out of this is to focus 100% on work and money. On being independent. As soon as you can have some kind of independence – all of this will shift. Love, Rori

  37.  #37Rori Raye on August 8, 2010 at 9:48 am

    sofia – I’m sorry – I don’t understand….how can you “see” a man for 7 months and yet he “not ask you out.”? From here, it seems like an Imaginary Relationship – and that there’s NOTHING going on here. Forget him and move on. If I’m misunderstanding, please let me know. Love, Rori

  38.  #38Rori Raye on August 8, 2010 at 9:50 am

    rainy – welcome – and this is going to seem tough and harsh – your letter (read it objectively if you can) is from a woman with zero self-esteem. You are all about him. Please focus on YOU. This man is going nowhere with you. Forget him. Your jealousy and obsession is a function of your low self-esteem. What’s needed here is for YOU to love YOU. Love, Rori

  39.  #39Renee on August 8, 2010 at 9:58 am

    Karen — I agree to a point about talking about sex very much up front, but I agree with Erika that to keep a man who has options interested, there has to be some hint of sexuality involved, even if it just means dressy kind of sexy. (I’m willing to admit I could be wrong here.) It does seem to naturally come, at least for me, when a guy starts kind of asking the questions about my dating habits…usually what happens is I’ll ask him if he’s met many interesting people on Match or eH or whatever. He usually replies with information about his recent dates and whether they went well or not (most of the time, he says not). Then they usually ask me the same question and I guess I’m wanting to make it clear up front that I’m dating other people (possibly a mistake?) so I’ll say something like, “I’ve met a few interesting people online, but I’m really looking for the ‘right’ guy and I’m not sure if I’ve met him yet.”

    That tends to lead to curiosity on their part about whether I’m dating other people currently or have I been on many dates recently (is this unique to me?), so I tell them I am dating around right now, but that my goal is to settle down with the right man. I feel the need to clarify, though, that just because I’m dating around, I’m not sleeping around. I say this because of my conversation about this very thing with shorty pilot a few weeks ago — when the topic came up and I clarified that yes, I was dating around but that didn’t mean “sleeping around” because I don’t believe in that, he said, “It’s good that you clarified that because unless you make that clear, the assumption is that you’re having sex with mutliple people as well, because that’s what most men do.”

    Maybe I have a chip on my shoulder about CDing and feeling the need to tell people what I’m doing, but it just seems to come up and the ‘not sleeping around’ comment seems natural to me as well…

    Erika & Brenda — I’m curious about something…how soon do you tell the guy, “no sex without committment and no committment without marriage”? I’m pondering making that my new policy as well, though I’m not sure if I have the strength to wait 6 months to sleep with someone I really like and am attracted to…I do know that having sex too soon with someone I’m really into is a baaaad idea.

  40.  #40Desiree on August 8, 2010 at 9:58 am

    Is it just me, or does anyone else feel this way: When I use feel messages that have a negative emotion attached to them, I think the man will either hold it against me, or not understand why I feel that way and blame himself.

    Sometimes even when a guy is texting and “I feel neglected.” I don’t want to say that because it sounds ‘needy’. Or if “I feel like this conversation is one-sided.” I don’t want to tell him that, because it seems awkward.

    Do guys enjoy the honesty or is it considered an alien habit?

  41.  #41Erika Awakening on August 8, 2010 at 9:59 am


    Lol, loved that response 🙂 I hear ya and still …

    Okay, I have some back-to-back HBR sessions right now … so I’ll check back in later.


  42.  #42Karen on August 8, 2010 at 10:12 am

    @ Renee, I agree completely, sometimes I don’t do the best at expressing what I am trying to say. 🙂

    I’m also new to this blog, thank you for replying to my posts w/o me introducing myself. Obviously I’m Karen. I’ve been divorced for almost 6 years. I’m turning 40 in a few weeks and started dating via POF in May. I’m chatting with 5 or 6 guys, so far I’ve only gone on a date w/one, Paul. We’ve really seemed to hit it off. He was honest with me that he was having a first date with another woman, after I had been on 2 dates with him. Intellectually I had no problem with this, emotionally I became jealous. He contacted me that night after the date. I asked him if I was still on the ‘short’ list, and he told me that I was on top (and then asked me if I enjoyed being on top, lol) and we’ve been chatting quite a bit ever since. Work emails, texting, emailing at home, yahoo IM. I always let him contact me first. Me CDing hasn’t come up, and I haven’t mentioned it. He sent me a virtual rose last night, lol, and he is orchestrating plans for Saturday. It’s exciting, but I’m really trying to keep my options open. 🙂

    Thank you for letting me introduce myself, I love this blog and love Rori!

  43.  #43Renee on August 8, 2010 at 10:23 am

    Karen — I’m definitely no expert here, but I think Rori would definitely encourage you to go out on some dates with some other men! It would probably be good to set up a profile on another dating service as well so you’re exposed to a different pool of men.

    I really hope things work out with you and Paul, but it just seems like things are different now than they were when we were younger…men (especially men who are desirable and have options) seem to not be as willing to make a committment to any one woman as they may have been in the past. I think it has something to do with the number of women who literally “throw” themselves at men and even if a man isn’t going to seriously consider most of those women for marriage material, it is an ego stroke for them to have a bevy of lovely women who are all willing to sleep with them at the ready.

    So my point is, if this guy’s really a ‘catch’, it would probably be the ‘safe’ thing to do to line up some other men to at least occupy your time and practice the tools with…what do you think?

  44.  #44Karen on August 8, 2010 at 10:28 am

    Renee, I should have been more clear. At the moment I’m seeing Paul, I’m supposed to meet this other guy Dan, whenever he makes an effort, and there are 4 others. I have been on other dates though. Nothing has come of them, but I am replying to all inquiries, lol. There are my core values (non-smoker, etc..) but I am entertaining all possibilities. Hope that make sense! I totally agree about CDing, and I’m flirting and using the tools. Thanks Renee. 🙂

  45.  #45Renee on August 8, 2010 at 10:53 am

    You’re awesome, Karen! Keep up the good work!

  46.  #46Lisa on August 8, 2010 at 10:54 am

    I’ve been reading Rori’s posts for a long time and find them really insightful and useful. Thank you Rori for helping the Woman within us awake, yawn, stretch and play 🙂
    I have another question related to Circular Dating, and had been looking for an opportunity to ask, so here it is: I note that whenever Rori mentions CD, she does it in the context of an already-established relationship. She explains what we must do to turn things around if we’ve been with someone for some time already and he’s been reluctant to step up. But what about new relationships? I very recently (i.e. a couple of weeks ago) met someone who’s treating me very well, is sweet, seems keen, he may -gosh!- be a Good Man in every sense of the word. But after only a few weeks “together” he’d think me mad (or worse…) if I were to tell him “sorry, I can’t date you exclusively unless I get a ring”. I mean, if I were in his shoes I’d think the woman must be crazy to even suggest that so soon. I’d feel we didn’t stand a chance, if the woman was micromanaging the relationship like this from the word go. In fact I’d perceive the woman as cold and operating on schedule. How are we to bring up CD to a Good Man we’ve only recently met? I’ve been single for the past couple years and do in fact want to CD but don’t want to mess up every promising new relationship with what may be perceived as premature and unnecessary “declarations of independence”. Please, tell me what you think about this, Rori.

  47.  #47Renee on August 8, 2010 at 11:00 am

    Lucy — how did things go w/WH last night? Dying to hear all about it!

  48.  #48Lucy on August 8, 2010 at 11:53 am

    He’s amazing.

    I felt excited, joyful, engaged, safe, comfortable, confident, playful . . . just plain PERFECT with him.

    BUT he didn’t say anything about wanting to see me again. 🙁

    So I feel a little worried.

    But it was the best date ever — got home at 4 a.m.

    The perfect blend of fun, laughter, and deep, quiet, profound conversation — sitting in the damp sand side by side in the dark just a few feet from the ocean — it was so perfect — everything felt perfect — so many wonderful little details — I felt completely free to be my best genuine vulnerable self with him — if I never see him again, I will feel incredibly sad — but the joyful peaceful wonderful moments I had with him were worth it anyway — the memories quicken my heart — he is an amazing person — I need to do Rori’s “keeping your heart in your chest” exercise! I need to find a way to lean back energetically. Date another guy. I can’t even remember the last time I felt like this — it’s the way I felt with TN man except better because we were together in person and because he chose to be with me and spend all that time with me and gave me an incredible melty goodnight kiss that I hope hope hope was not our last.

    Oh my gosh, he is amazing. And very very kind.

  49.  #49Renee on August 8, 2010 at 12:00 pm

    Lucy — That’s wonderful! Sounds like your date was just about perfect! I’d be surprised if you don’t get asked out again, but if that does happen, you have to know it’s some issue he has, not you. But don’t sell yourself short — men are looking for that ‘connection’ just like women are, and if you were that in tune with your emotions and you were feeling that way, chances are he was too…it always feels better, though, when they ask you for another date before the first one’s over.

    Did he pay you lots of compliments and “row the boat”?

  50.  #50Lucy on August 8, 2010 at 12:16 pm

    p.s. Rori and all you sirens would have been very proud of how I stayed completely leaned back and in the present moment the entire time (I didn’t let myself think any of the thoughts I’m thinking now — just was THERE, totally there) — used all the tools — listened at level two while he talked about so many sacred things — himself, his life, his family, the world, God, the stars — and he asked questions about me, too — and I didn’t ONCE lean forward and he stepped up in masculine energy big time — spent money on me — and I didn’t even question it — he suggested what we do next — asked for input and wanted to please me but was ready with ideas when I leaned back — I’ve never seen a man so confident and secure in his masculinity without being macho and cocky — he couldn’t believe he lost to me at skeeball, but it didn’t rattle his confidence one iota — he truly took it like a man and was happy and proud of me (and laughing because the ocean breeze mysteriously blew my skirt up every time I was trying to throw the ball) — and then promptly won me a stuffed frog at the launch-the-frog-onto-the-lily-pad. I could go on and on….

  51.  #51Lucy on August 8, 2010 at 12:31 pm

    Renee, thanks for the encouragement. He absolutely rowed the boat — in a very relaxed, comfortable way — not all crazy desperate trying-to-impress like some of the guys I’ve dated (and been turned off by). I didn’t even lean forward at all for the goodnight kiss — he reached for me, pulled me toward him, and I completely and utterly melted and enjoyed every second of it.

    Compliments — I remember him saying I was pretty at least once, and he said my shoes were pretty at least twice (lol), and he said something about my skirt being the perfect summer skirt . . . I don’t remember him saying I was fun or anything like that though — but he definitely seemed to be enjoying being with me — smiled and laughed at me a lot — and tried successfully to make me laugh — I don’t know — I guess I just have to wait and see…. or should I say I have to CD and see…

  52.  #52Lucy on August 8, 2010 at 12:45 pm

    Catching up on this thread ….

    Thanks for this, Erika — “if God means us to be together . . .”

    Yes. If God means for WH and me to be together, it will happen.

  53.  #53Lucy on August 8, 2010 at 12:52 pm

    Brenda – “For myself, I am going to just date with no sex until I have a ring on my finger. I feel safest that way all around.”

    That’s how I’m feeling right now too.

  54.  #54Lucy on August 8, 2010 at 12:56 pm

    Love this, Erika — ‘I told him: “I don’t want to have uncommitted sex. And I don’t want to be committed to any man unless it’s permanent.”’

  55.  #55Lucy on August 8, 2010 at 1:01 pm

    “this kind of edginess amps up the sexual tension and intrigue a LOT”

    Love it — WH pointed out a lesbian bar at the beach, and I said, “Yeah, I’ve thought about going that way since I’m having trouble finding a man I want.” 🙂

  56.  #56Lucy on August 8, 2010 at 1:12 pm

    Rori or someone else who knows — “Except in the first 3-4 (okay – I’ll stretch it to 6 in some cases…) months of dating someone, if he needs to date other women….”

    — so does that mean that for the first few months it is okay (and even expected) for him to be dating other women?

  57.  #57Eva on August 8, 2010 at 1:25 pm

    Hi Rori,

    Thank you for such a quick reply 🙂

    Actually, your advice to focus on money and my independence is what I am already doing – bought a car 4 weeks ago, have a second job (I teach English), yet me and my financial advisor have come to conclusion that I won’t be able to get mortgage earlier than in 2012 (I am from the Czech Republic, and the law regarding loans is quite strict here).

    However, I feel impatient – is there any tool that could help me with that?

    Besides, I am still confused as regards the cohabitation. I know, you’ve been through this and maybe could tell me if you think it’s a good idea. Today, my bf was again talking about us living in his place (in a positive way). I feel torn. On one hand I can’t wait spending the nights with him (currently, I do not spleep over at his place – my decision) on the other hand I feel afraid of falling deeper in the “girlfriend trap”.

    Do you think it’s a good idea to move in with him let’s say in 9 months from now and at the same time work on my goal of buying my own flat so that I can move out just in case living in with him “only as a girlfriend” does not feel comfortable for me anymore?

    Has anybody a similar experience? If so, what did you do? And how did you feel about that?

    Thank you once again.

    Love, Eva

  58.  #58Lucy on August 8, 2010 at 1:48 pm

    Just want to add —

    I know I was only able to lean back fully and naturally and be authentically me (quirks and all) on my looong date with winker hottie BECAUSE I had PRACTICED so much with guys I wasn’t into. Yes, practice and “free therapy” really works. Thanks, Rori and everyone who contributes here.

  59.  #59Eva on August 8, 2010 at 2:24 pm


    Hi, this is Eva. You are right. I sometimes think the same about using feeling messages with men.
    For example: 2 days ago I felt depressed about being stuck in my life and because me and my bf had promised to each other not to hide what’s going on when one of us gets sad/moody/withdrawn, I admitted to him that I felt stuck. I didn’t explain much why I just used feeling messages and only briefly mentioned that from time to time our relationship feels like stalling. He seemed to understand.

    BUT the next day he acted cold and didn’t talk to me much. Finally, he admitted that he felt as if I made HIM responsible for feeling down, stuck, generally for ALL my bed feelings, which hurt HIS feelings. I hadn’t accused him of anything, I just expressed and hoped he would understand.

    I think men are capable of empathy, but one must express the bad feelings only for a limited time – e.g. 5 mins is more than enough. Longer than that and he might take it as an accusation and your trying to guilt him into sth.


  60.  #60Laughing goddess on August 8, 2010 at 3:11 pm


    re: comment #40

    I feel inspired to share my experience around making comments like “I feel neglected”.

    When I have the thought “I feel neglected” I am starting to realize that it has nothing to do with the other person but everything to do with ME.

    Rather than needing someone to act in a certain way so that I feel good, it feels better to ask myself “what can I do for myself right now to feel better (not neglected)?” It feels more truthful and powerful. Less needy.

    So, if I’m feeling the way you described (neglected), I might say something like…

    “I don’t feel as good as I’d like to in this conversation right now. And I’m finding myself wanting to blame you and say I feel neglected. And I don’t want to do that. It feels better to acknowledge that I have some needs that I would like to have met and take responsibility for meeting them. What do you think?”

    his typical response: “Well, I’m a little confused but I respect what you said about wanting to take responsibility for yourself and not blaming me. That’s really cool. But I don’t really understand what you want from me.”

    me: “Well I feel happy to be talking with you yet I’m finding myself feeling bored with our previous conversation. I’d like to feel more engaged and connected with you.

    His typical response: “What would you rather be doing?”

    me: “Right now I’m feeling energized and I’d rather be outside playing.”

    Or “Right now I feel hungry and I’d love to get something to eat.”

    or “Right now I feel a little bored with what we are talking about. It would feel so much better to discuss something I feel passionate about”

    This type of communication has worked wonders for me!

  61.  #61Laughing goddess on August 8, 2010 at 3:27 pm

    Lucy: I felt so excited reading about your date and then I felt disturbed when I read that you were feeling concerned that you may not see him again. I felt better when I read some of your comments further down about if god wants you to be together it will happen, etc.

    So even though it seems like you caught yourself having those doubtful thoughts, I still feel inspired to remind you to not feed them.

    I feel confident that you will find you man whether you see WH again or not. I feel proud of you for leaning back and be a goddess and I feel elated that the quality of men that are showing up is getting better and better. I feel certain that the right man will show up any day now and you will know and it will be easy and effortless. Yay!

  62.  #62Erika Awakening on August 8, 2010 at 4:36 pm

    Renee said: “men (especially men who are desirable and have options) seem to not be as willing to make a committment to any one woman as they may have been in the past. I think it has something to do with the number of women who literally ‘throw’ themselves at men”

    Vegas Guy actually expressed shock that I wasn’t throwing myself at him. He told me about a model who showed up at his house just for sex.

    “Why are you resisting a sexual connection?”

    I said: “Shrug. Most women don’t know their value. I do.”

  63.  #63Erika Awakening on August 8, 2010 at 4:39 pm

    Renee, you asked:

    “Erika & Brenda — I’m curious about something…how soon do you tell the guy, “no sex without committment and no committment without marriage”? I’m pondering making that my new policy as well, though I’m not sure if I have the strength to wait 6 months to sleep with someone I really like and am attracted to…I do know that having sex too soon with someone I’m really into is a baaaad idea.”

    For me, I told him after he booked a plane ticket to see me, but before he came. I was getting the vibe that he was expecting sex, and I didn’t want the pressure of that. I wanted to be honest up front.

    He canceled his trip. (Yes, this is how spoiled men are nowadays.) I think he thought that would make me cave.

    It didn’t. It did lead us into some very interesting and deep conversations though … 🙂

    I feel very unattached to the outcome, which feels WONDERFUL 🙂

  64.  #64Erika Awakening on August 8, 2010 at 5:35 pm

    When push came to shove, and he was trying to make my not having sex with him mean that I didn’t want him (I didn’t take that literally, btw), I simply said:

    “I want you forever or not at all.”

  65.  #65Simply Shannon Take II on August 8, 2010 at 7:44 pm

    Lucy: YEAH! So happy the date went well! Praying you hear from him (AND another picture perfect man) again soon! I want three in your rotation! 😉

    Erika: Wow. That’s about all I can think to say. He’s playing hard ball with you. I really liked what you’ve said so far. I feel bummed that he would cancel his trip because of no sex. You handled that amazingly well. “Most women don’t know their value. I do”… so true!

  66.  #66rainy summer day on August 8, 2010 at 8:09 pm

    #38 OK I am working on forgetting him and focusing on me and loving myself.
    Iv been crying alot and feeling sad and feeling mad and lonely and trying to give up the hope I had for a future with him.

  67.  #67Jacqueline on August 8, 2010 at 8:16 pm

    Hi! has anyone ever done this succesfully? The elephant in the room is when/what if he shoots back with – sure you date, I’ll date; oh, I understand that feels bad to you, but I’d feel really, really bad only dating you while you are playing the field, so no, and btw, I don’t like ultimatums, babe.

    I love the concept, and I totally agree men have an agenda and a timeline – and as long as you fit their “parameters” of the woman they want, you’re “it!” So, when they are ready, they’re ready. But when they aren’t it’ll come down to if you are willing to hear, ummm, naaaah, that doesn’t work for me.

    So, I’m wondering what comes after the sure, go right ahead – even if he somehow agrees to only date you? If you’re only going for H.E.A., he’s gonna have to decide within weeks, huh? Or do you just keep rotating him until a better fit comes along?

    I don’t believe it makes a difference when sex is on the table…or in the bed…lol….in the relationship, but it does make a difference when/if you have the “exclusivity” talk.

    And I take it Rori’s saying it’s logical for him to continue to date other women for up to six months in some instances. So then I’m wondering – when do you give him up after that?

    Have a great week, girlfriends!

  68.  #68lm on August 8, 2010 at 8:22 pm

    erika – “I want you forever or not at all.”

    that’s awesome.

    i once said something similar during a breakup (‘i want the whole deal or no relationship’) and i felt amazing even though it was a forever breakup.

  69.  #69Erika Awakening on August 8, 2010 at 8:22 pm

    Hi Shannon,

    You said: “He’s playing hard ball with you. I really liked what you’ve said so far. I feel bummed that he would cancel his trip because of no sex.”

    Yeah, this is why I recommend that women attend men’s seduction seminars. If I didn’t understand the way men’s process works inside and out, I probably would have taken this personally. But I do understand, and I didn’t take it personally.

    A man who has bedded hundreds of women knows all the buttons that work on almost every woman. I’m the one woman the buttons don’t work on … that shows him that I am his equal in strength.

  70.  #70Jacqueline on August 8, 2010 at 8:24 pm

    To Eva: that’s a great point – everyone thinks you’re taken. I could see that in a small town, not sure how to handle it – I’m sure you start by flirting tho….it’s a smile, eye contact for 4 to 5 seconds – which is longer than you usually do, try counting it out! wow….., drop gaze and ignore….unless he comes to talk, and he talks first. You’r situation seems sad to me, and I hope you find hope and healing here, and a way to move forward that’s best for you!


  71.  #71Erika Awakening on August 8, 2010 at 8:25 pm

    Im, you said: “i felt amazing even though it was a forever breakup.”

    That’s all that matters in the end, right? how you feel about how you handled it.

    That’s my only focus nowadays. A guy either makes my cut or he doesn’t. And my standards are very, very high. Once he makes the cut, it’s no longer looking at him as “special,” at least not right now. He’s just another guy who’s good with women until he shows me he’s my One. Then he will have my full attention and adoration forever.

  72.  #72Jacqueline on August 8, 2010 at 8:26 pm

    Rainy…same as above to you, too…and a special big hug and welcome! You can/will be a stronger you in no time!!

  73.  #73Erika Awakening on August 8, 2010 at 8:30 pm

    “Hi! has anyone ever done this succesfully? The elephant in the room is when/what if he shoots back with – sure you date, I’ll date; oh, I understand that feels bad to you, but I’d feel really, really bad only dating you while you are playing the field, so no, and btw, I don’t like ultimatums, babe.”

    My current take on this is not to worry about who he might or might not be dating. In fact, I told my guy to date whomever he wants. We are either going to make this a forever commitment, or the last thing I would spend my energy doing is keeping tabs on who he spends his time with … I have better things to do …


  74.  #74lm on August 8, 2010 at 8:39 pm

    erika –

    i love this: “Once he makes the cut, it’s no longer looking at him as “special,” at least not right now. He’s just another guy who’s good with women until he shows me he’s my One. Then he will have my full attention and adoration forever.”

    i think men feel when we make them “special” when they haven’t been earning it…then it can go south pretty quickly.

  75.  #75lm on August 8, 2010 at 8:46 pm

    and, again, erika –

    “We are either going to make this a forever commitment, or the last thing I would spend my energy doing is keeping tabs on who he spends his time with … I have better things to do …”

    this makes a lot of sense to me right now. it feels sort of freeing that your focus is so on you and your own life and your moments with a guy that you aren’t caught up in his life unless he steps up big time.

  76.  #76Eva on August 9, 2010 at 12:34 am

    Hi Jacqueline,

    Exactly as you say – longer eye contact, smile, brief conversation or a few compliments – that´s how it starts – actually, flirting has always been quite natural to me. But how to handle it then? I find difficult to allow men come closer than this stuff and I am not able to even go out for a date with anyone but my bf.
    As you foreshadowed – when the boys attracted to you find out that you have a boyfriend (date other men) they usually give up….or even worse – get angry. Here´s what I mean:

    It reminds me of one such guy. He attended the same university and the last 2 years of my studies we commuted by train together. Once he invited me for a coffee. I said: “OK, we can go somewhere, but not today, I have a busy schedule.” Later that week I was still very busy, moreover he was in my “just friends” category, it didn´t bother me much. I realized he was into me after his several reminders that I “still owed him the coffee.” As I wasn´t particularly attracted to him and didn´t want to string him on, I very subtly mentioned my bf to one of my friends in front of him at the railway station in hope that he would give up and be “just friends” with me too. A very funny thing happened: the moment my friend get on her train, he started to talk to me about my bf and made a scene in front of the people there: he blamed me for flirting with him and being cold at the same time, I was accused of pulling his nose, of hurting his feelings and trampling him (His words were: “You trampled on my love for you”). Though not being aware of deliberately doing any such thing, it made me feel guilty, embarrassed and turned off….and why not admit it….. also amused and laughing later that day.
    The result was this: I suggested remain friends, forget about this scene and act as if nothing happened. He refused and when I got off the train he sarcastically wished me “a Merry Christmas WITH MY BOYFRIEND”. Since then we have made every effort to avoid each other as much as possible.

    So, how does one start to CD when even a slightest remark about any other man makes men either turned off, giving up and putting you in the “just friends” category, or as in the above case even furious? Yes, just flirting with men helps to give you a boost of self-esteem, helps you to talk to men effortlessly, however, your options are not so open when it doesn´t go beyond this.

    Has anybody else had any similar experience?


  77.  #77Eva on August 9, 2010 at 12:50 am

    To Jacqueline: And also thank you for your emapthy, but let me mention that my story is not as sad as it seems (I didn´t want to write a novel here so I provided just the facts that bother me). Though, at the moment I feel stuck I am sure that with some self-growth and trying new things I will be able to handle it. There´s one thing I feel lucky about – i.e. I have never ever in my life experienced a break up of a long-term relationship (not counting those painless break-ups of insignificant less-than-month-lasting relationships with boys in my teen years). Though my current relationship has been on the edge of it lately, hopefully we managed to make it already. I feel lucky to have been able to find my soul mate so early in my life (he even loves window shopping with me LOL :-D) and I feel grateful for that.

    Love, Eva

  78.  #78Eva on August 9, 2010 at 1:58 am

    To Erika: That´s exactly what I´ve done with my bf. Of course he told. “Fine, let´s BOTH date other people” and got angry and withdrawn. I was even accused of pressurizing him, giving ultimatums etc.

    In few days, however, he was suddenly very affectionate and whenever I wanted to go out without him, he acted as if he wanted me all for himself and was showering me with affection.

    So I think it depens on the timing, on HOW you say it and from my point of view it should not be reminded of too often. Then he might take it as nagging.

    And as you mentioned, one should not bother much whether or not he starts seeing other people too. From my viewpoint he would do it just to make you jealous or to get rid of his anger that YOU CAN date while he DOESN´T.

    On the other hand it´s always better for YOU when he doesn´t date other girls.

  79.  #79Melb(a) Lynne on August 9, 2010 at 5:04 am

    rainy summer day
    i understand how you feel (i think).. i am also into ‘operation do-not contact-him’… & have been struggling with it… but found success with it (not with the guy.. la la… but hey… When He Contacted Me… that was a Win for me… baby steps each day..). stay strong & somehow things always improve… hugs to you…..
    i too ‘feel the need’ to tell pple (ie the guys i see) about my ‘dating’… & I felt ‘odd’ telling Greg (who’s clearly keen, & I like him also.. been a while for me, to Actually Like Someone…).. that: ‘Let’s take it slow.. you contact me… we both “doing our stuff” (yeah I was vague, not straight up but he got my drift)….& be gr8 to hear from you’…. I find it hard to ‘stay emotionally uninvested’ from any of my ‘dates’ well if I Like them, of course, rofl!!!… (If I become ‘invested’ in them.. BAMM… down the slippery, slidey emotionally dependent slope for me…).. So seems to me.. CD works only when one is Able to Stay Emotionally Uninvested in Any Guy…
    How Does One Actually DO This??? & then
    How is That Authentic to (forcibly) ‘stuff down’ any Feelings that May Arise??
    I too am unsure about CDing (I mean I think the theory great, & to ‘not be hooked’ on one guy keeps one definitely in the advantage)… but How To Actually Be With A Guy (eg in my case Greg, new date & ‘goin well’, 3 dates now & he’s v interested, & me keen2) & ‘explain’ that I May Want to See Him (in between all Those Other Guys I’m Dating – ie Open & Honest re what I’m doing, CDing…)… At this point, I’m just ‘not sure’ that he’ll ‘stick around’ when He Is Actually Looking For (seems straight up to me) Someone He Can Spend Rest of his Life With….
    Why Would He BOTHER with me (even tho i’m obviously gorgeous, lol!!!).. when He Can Date Other Women Who Wish to Devote More of Their Time/Life/Self to him, at present.. ie be in a relship?
    These Questions Open to Whoever Can Help Me (!!)…

  80.  #80Renee on August 9, 2010 at 6:56 am

    Ok — So it’s 9:30 Monday morning and I just got back from my date w/Indy guy and it was really nice.

    I was so-so about staying in my feminine energy…I need to work on that more, but this guy has a bit of feminine energy about him…he wanted me to decide where to go to dinner because he was in an unfamiliar city, which I guess is understandable, but I put it back on him by saying, “well, I guess we could either go to x or y, which are both really close to the theater. What do you think?” and he put it back on me…hmmm…so I actually said, “So you want me to be the man and make the decisions, huh?”, lol (can’t believe I said that! haha!) In the end, he said, “if you want me to decide, I will” but by that point, I had already been into my masculine energy, weighing the pros and cons of each restaurant and I made the decision.

    He was full of compliments (he said, at one point, “you seem to have it so together and are so beautiful, that I’m actually amazed that you’re single”, which I thought was a pretty wonderful compliment), but he’s not exactly showering me with attention just yet…should that worry me? What I mean is, in between dates, he’s not txting me 20 times a day like some of the men I’m seeing…he may go a day or 2 without contacting me and when I left today, he just said, “I’ll be in touch”. This leads me to believe he’s not the type who’s going to really step up and shower me with attention…that he’s more laid back and will kind of just “see how things go”.

    I like him, and right now, he’s the one who has more of my attention than the other men, but I don’t want to set myself up for frustration down the road, you know? I mean, maybe there’s a reason he still hasn’t been married at 44, despite the fact that he says that’s what he wants.

    My other concern has to do with sex…I don’t see how other people in long distance relationships are able to hold out for months at a time when you’re staying in such close proximity. Last night, I was an hour away from home and he was 2 hours away from his home, so since we’d been drinking, it didn’t make sense for us to drive home. We got (or rather I should say ‘he got’ a hotel room and told me I was welcome to stay at it and promised he’d be good. Well, that promise only goes so far when the two of you are in a hotel room together, you know? We didn’t go too far, but the temptation was incredibly strong…I just kept trying to remember how icky I’d feel today if I had slept with him and didn’t hear from him the rest of the day after I left…I would have felt used, so that kept me somewhat in check, but geez…he’s probably going to ask me to come to his city the next time because he’s come to me the last 2 times and I don’t know how many more nights I can hold off when we’re already at the point where we’re in bed together cuddling. Any tips?

  81.  #81Jennifer on August 9, 2010 at 6:57 am

    Are we supposed to date EVERY one who contacts us? Even if we’re not interested in them? Didn’t some one say that?
    I struggle with this.
    I now have a guy who I do NOT find attractive contacting me on eharmony.
    And another one who lists his occupation as “disability”.
    I hate this.
    I looked at all sorts of guys on POF..I sent an email to one who seems interesting.
    It would feel nice to have guys whom I am interested in be interested in me back. Really it would.

  82.  #82Renee on August 9, 2010 at 7:18 am

    Jennifer — I wish I knew the answer to your question. Rori says to literally go out with everyone who doesn’t ‘scare’ you, but if I did that, not only would I be out 5 nights a week, but I’d have an enormously difficult time remembering anything about any of them — it’s already hard just to keep straight how many kids they have/ whether their parents are alive, etc. and those are things people expect you to remember.

    I guess, though, if there’s no one contacting you at the moment who seems to have potential, you should probably still go out with some of these other men at least once just for practice…I know I’m having a hard time staying in my feminine energy and I realize now that’s been a problem for me in past relationships, so I could sure use the practice, but I also understand the hesitancy about going out with men you’re truly uninterested in.

    Would love to hear what some other sirens have to say…

  83.  #83Brenda on August 9, 2010 at 8:08 am

    April Showers, RE: #22

    Altho I haven’t heard what Rori said about avoiding a man’s question. However, I do know what she said about not being required to tell a man your past, and not needing to reveal anything that you don’t feel comfortable revealing.

    Wow, I’ve been missing out on the party! I need to get busy reading to catch up! 🙂

  84.  #84Brenda on August 9, 2010 at 8:16 am

    Erica Awakening: RE: #25:

    I really like this feeling message you gave:

    “I don’t want to have uncommitted sex. And I don’t want to be committed to any man unless it’s permanent.”

    My understanding is that feeling messages are for connecting heart to heart, rather than brain to brain. I don’t think Rori ever intended for us to have entire conversations in feeling messages. We NEED an intellectual connection, and I definitely go there so men don’t think I’m an air head! But it is true when Rori says a man will not fall in love with your brain. He falls in love with your heart.

    I am seeing that start to happen with Bill. He tends to keep things surface, and I keep going deeper. When he says how are you doing, I am no longer just saying “good”. At Shannon’s suggestion a while back, I connect by saying, “I feel bored”…or whatever. Cuz the truth is most of the time at work I DO feel bored. Left and right, I keep giving him my deep truth, by telling him how I REALLY feel. I am feeling his attraction to me more and more, and it feels really good!

  85.  #85Erika Awakening on August 9, 2010 at 8:43 am

    Thanks, Brenda …

    Well, it has been my experience, which may not be universal, that if you want to put a double standard on a guy … and he has self-esteem … good luck unless you can make it clear to him WHY you feel the way you do …

    Guys don’t want to be used any more than we do. I think part of the reason Vegas Guy canceled his trip is he was worried he was over-investing and maybe I wasn’t feeling the same level toward him …

    If he’s going to make me his permanent partner, he wants to know that he also will be happy, that I’m not some girl out to take what I can get … and that’s where recent conversations have been focused.

    That’s part of what I meant above about “feeling messages are not enough.” There are so many conflicting views about masculinity and femininity out in the world, that if a woman doesn’t have a coherent world view on this and COMMUNICATE HER WORLD VIEW TO THE MAN, her feeling messages will come across as confusing and/or totally unreasonable and lopsided to a guy who has self-esteem …

  86.  #86Brenda on August 9, 2010 at 8:45 am

    Renee, RE: #32 – You said, “Regarding sex, I think I could feel comfortable saying, “That’s a pretty personal question and I don’t really feel comfortable discussing that with you right now,” but I do believe that would lead a man to think I was sleeping with someone else…”

    Yes, it could. However, is a big part of why that type of question angers me. It is invasive from the door. It’s like the classic question, “So, are you still beating your wife?” It implies that you are, no matter how you answer it. You could say no, but it still leaves the question asker thinking you used to. I have heard this saying, “He who frames the question wins the debate.”

    I am open on this blog, which may not be wise. But when it comes to getting to know people in my personal life, I am very strongly into maintaining my free will and my right to privacy.

    I feel downright angry when people ask such invading questions. What I WANT to say is, “It’s none of your business!” But, yes, that would lead him to believe I was currently having sex.

    So maybe a good way to answer it would be:

    “I feel violated when people ask me such personal questions. It feels far more comfortable when I feel free to reveal my deep truth as I feel emotionally safe. What do you think?”

    Then if he said, “I think you’re avoiding the question. So that leads me to believe you are currently having sex with someone!”

    I would probably say, “I don’t feel respected at all. So I’m just going to say it point blank: It’s none of your business.”

    Those are my honest feelings on that. If I want to tell you, I’ll tell you. If I don’t want to, you can think what you want, but don’t push it!

    What do you think?

    You said, “I can usually get the information I want, though, by asking other questions that aren’t quite as personal…”

    My understanding as part of leaning back is we are better off not asking questions, just responding.

    You said, “I think your attitude with Balto is healthy…just because you’re dating him, it doesn’t mean you have to consider marrying him…men have been doing that to women for centuries — it’s about time we turn the tables on them!”

    My motive isn’t to turn the tables on him. I honestly feel it is healthy for both of us. He’s getting therapy, too, afterall. And I don’t want to be one of those women who cancels every man out on the first date for the slightest thing. The fact is he has a very beautiful heart, and I really would like to get to know him better. I have adopted a three date rule for myself.

    If it’s absolutely a no go, then forget it, but I try to give a man a chance. Matter of fact, I am going to go out with 62 again. I did tell him I’m not comfortable with our age difference, but that I am honestly open to a friendship. So he accepted that. He is very respectful, so I feel safe with him.

    You asked, “Have you had much contact with Ryan lately? How do you feel about that?”

    I have texted Ryan a little bit. He was friendlier than he’s been in quite a while, and he even said, “You are a beautiful lady”, which really made my day. He’s said “Good night” stuff lately for a few nights, just checking in with me.

    I had a “mirror” experience with a girlfriend of mine, who was totally smothering another girlfriend and lost the friendship. As she spoke, I totally saw myself in her with Ryan. I am determined to stop smothering him. If he doesn’t want to see me, I have to accept that. It’s hard tho, every day, and especially at night, because I keep recalling some truly beautiful memories I have with him. It’s hard to believe he doesn’t cherish them as I do. Day by day, I am letting him go.

    And, it really helps to have Bill filling my thoughts and emotions! He is a far better man in most respects. I just want to be with whichever man is MY match. So I feel good about keeping the circular dating doors open!

    I was also recontacted by Green Man last night! He’s been busy with working on weekends to promote his business. And he lives in NJ while I’m in PA, so that has kept him from seeing me. We have tentative plans for this coming Sunday, and I feel good about that.

    I have tentative plans with Balto for Saturday.

    So I’m getting my circular date on! Yay!

  87.  #87Brenda on August 9, 2010 at 8:48 am

    Erika Awakening, RE: #84 – I am having a hard time reading between your lines. I am not sure…are you agreeing with me or disagreeing in regards to dating Balto? And what do you mean by “double standard” in this case?

    I value your wisdom. I like what you say about being solid in having a fully-formulated world view. That was a major focus at my college in humanities class, affectionately known as “humanagonies”! 😛

  88.  #88AmberS on August 9, 2010 at 8:53 am

    Lovely Sirens,

    I would really appreciate your help. I am involved with a wonderful guy, but I really need to circular date because I’m focusing WAY too much on him and I’m feeling really angry that he hasn’t stepped up with a commitment. He tells me I’m “the love of his life” and he’s “never felt anything like this before”.

    But then he keeps me off balance by avoiding commitment and being vague. I feel angry and manipulated. I feel ‘not enough’.

    Thanks Rori- for writing this post. I’m realizing that I’m doing this to myself by being ahead of him in the feelings/relationship.

    I am really only looking for guys to be friends with and to get my own life more full & fun. Are there any web sites that are geared toward this?

    I looked at “strictly platonic” on craigslist and YIPES! It should be called “something on the side”. Lots of married but looking men.

    I feel scared and stuck. And I would really appreciate your help!

  89.  #89Brenda on August 9, 2010 at 9:04 am

    Erika Awakening,

    Here’s a question for you that would really help if you can answer it…how do you ramp it up with discussing sexual topics without leading a man on to believe he’s going to have sex with you sooner than later?

    I used to go straight for sex, and I know very well how to get a man wild (for example, “I want you to suck my nipples!” or “I want to give you a long, deep masssage…in my pussy!”) So I know you are right.

    However, we have both agreed we want to hold off on sex until marriage, so how do you balance the two? I don’t want to mislead a man. I usually avoid sexual talk at the beginning now that I am reformatting my love life! What do you think?

  90.  #90Brenda on August 9, 2010 at 9:11 am


    I highly recommend Commitment Blueprint!

    This man needs to “No Boyfriend Speech”. And you need to circular date. I know it’s not comfortable or natural, at first. But it is the solution.

    As women, we are geared for giving our whole heart to one man. It feels right. It feels good. But we end up with an uncommitted man and a frustrated heart.

    Don’t take Rori’s word for it…try circular dating! If you have been exclusive thus far, give him the speech. I don’t have it memorized, but it goes something like this:

    “I don’t want to be one of those women who sits around single for years. I want you to take all the time you need to make a decision about commiting to me. But I am going to get out there and date until then. What do you think?”

    There’s more to it, but that’s the gist of it. The idea is, “No rush, buddy! But if you don’t step up, you’re going to lose me!”

  91.  #91Renee on August 9, 2010 at 9:19 am

    Brenda — It sounds like things are really going well for you in the CD department — that’s awesome! I feel sad for you that you’re still dealing with those bad feelings from Ryan, but we all have things we need to work through at our own pace and I hope you’re able to work through yours and take the good memories and cherish them and let that be your focus instead of the other part.

    When I said, “turn the tables,” I didn’t mean “get men back,” I just meant that it was time for us to feel free to date just for the fun of it (and for therapy) the way men have been doing all along. It’s easier said than done, though…I’m still in contact with my date from Sat night, Robert, but I know it’s not going anywhere with him so I keep feeling tempted to give him some version of the, “you seem like a great guy, but I just started seeing someone else and I want to see how it goes” (the story I gave cowboy…I know that wasn’t my ‘truth’, but I felt I was being kinder to him by telling him that. Also, on a selfish level, I know he thinks I was being gracious by explaining that to him as opposed to thinking I’m “rejecting” him by just not wanting to meet him. I still don’t want him to dislike me, even though I’m not interested in him…something I guess I need to work on.)

    Anyway…I guess I’ll stay in contact with Robert and go out with him again, but I see, at some point, having to break things off with him because he really likes me and wants to settle down with someone and I know I’m not that gal…but I’m trying to stick with the principles of CDing and practice ‘receiving’ and ‘feeling message’ and, most of all, staying in my ‘feminine energy’, which is proviing to be the biggest challenge for me, because I’m such a ‘get ‘er done’ kind of gal, lol. Working on it though:-).

  92.  #92Brenda on August 9, 2010 at 9:37 am

    Renee, RE: #39 – CDing and no sex…

    I don’t tell a man I am circular dating unless it comes up. If it comes up, that is something I won’t try to say is private. But when I am first getting acquainted with a man, if I have plans with another man, I simply state that, as I did last night with Green Man, “I have plans Saturday but I am free Sunday.” I think where Circular Dating becomes an issue is when the man is getting to have more serious feelings for you, and he wants to know if he has you all to himself. I address that only when I need to.

    About not having sex until commitment, you asked, “how soon do you tell the guy, “no sex without committment and no committment without marriage”?”

    Again, I bring that up when it’s asked or comes up in conversation. It could be the first date, or it could be a little ways into it. I just guage it by how much he is pushing for sex. If a man JUST wants booty call, I want to know that sooner than later, because I am not going to go there anymore. It’s empty and shallow to make love when love’s not really there. To me, sex is an expression of deep love for someone. Void of that love binding your hearts together, sex is just physical sensation. Like a few people commented at the sex club I used to go to, “Sex is overrated.”

    No, it’s not, not within marriage. It is very, very beautiful and wonderful!

    Renee, according to my exhusband, I have far more sex drive than the average woman. So please don’t think I’m a prude when I say that if you learn to control yourself sexually, you will grow into a far stronger woman! It isn’t easy, but if you learn to manage it in other ways, like playing with sex toys, you will become like a beautiful castle that you are proud of!

    One thing that drew me to men in prison was their immense fortitude. They have endured hardships far beyond what the average man will ever endure, and the #1 thing they have to endure is no sex for years on end. Some of the weaker men become homosexuals. But if you can endure long periods without sex, you will become a deeper person inside.

    And, when you finally DO land the right man, the sex will be so much more meaningful and explosive! I thought of that once as I was walking down a dirt road to a huge lake to go swimming! I saw some large mud puddles along the way. I felt tempted to sit down in them to cool off. Then I thought of the cool, fresh water straight ahead! And I thought how much better that would feel if I was as hot as could be when I entered the lake! Pun intended! 😛

  93.  #93Lucy on August 9, 2010 at 9:42 am

    Brenda, I’m so happy for you with all your CD men!!! I feel great about how you are doing!

  94.  #94Lucy on August 9, 2010 at 9:54 am

    Ugh, I had no choice but to text WH because I left my glasses in his car — under the seat where he prob wouldn’t discover them for a long time — but at least I used a feeling message: “I feel embarrassed. I can’t find my glasses so I’m wondering if they are hiding in your car…”

    He asked when I would be able to meet to get them back — but I felt really awkward and uncomfortable and sad thinking about meeting him just to get my glasses while not knowing if he wants to date me again — it would feel horrible doing that — so I said “Would it be easier/cheaper to mail them?”

    He asked how soon I needed them and said he could mail them today and they would prob get here by wed. I said that would be great– that i can survive with my old pair for a couple days. He said, “ok, then I just need your address. :)”

    I sent him my address, and then added, “Thanks so much! Btw that kiss felt really good. :)”

    He texted back, “Yeah, we had a great time. :)”

    I texted, “I’m happy that you enjoyed it too.” [kinda lame but it’s what I was feeling.]

    Then nothing.

    Boo hoo.

    It feels kinda weird that he said “WE had a great time.” lol

    And it feels like if he wanted to see me again that would’ve been when he would’ve said so. 🙁

    I know I have to stop thinking about it. But it is so hard. I just felt so great with him — SO great. I really hadn’t expected that to happen!!!

  95.  #95Brenda on August 9, 2010 at 9:54 am

    Desiree, RE: #40 – Negative Feeling Messages

    I think it is pretty alien to state negative emotions. It’s taboo, and often people look at me like I just stomped on their foot, like shock! LOL!

    I just embrace it! I think, like Rori said, we will learn to know ourselves, our own comfort levels, organically. We will learn what does and doesn’t fit our personal life’s vision and outlook. I am finding an in-between ground.

    I have been using the feeling messages all over the place: at work, with family, with men, with friends, in public, and now even in jobhunting! LOL! And it is so freeing!! I love not being stifled by society’s taboo that you can’t express your feelings and boundaries!

    I find that sometimes it’s better to choose my battles, like at work. One woman right now looks at me with razor blades because she is so stinkin offended that I, a mere temporary contractor, have confronted her and another scientist about getting to meetings, etc. I’m going to have a talk with her, too.

    But I am trying to be all around balanced. I am doing the project with Bill. We have a romance budding. I try to think in terms of how will the future impace today? Let’s say a year from now I am Bill’s wife. And no longer employed here. I want to make him feel proud. I want to keep positive relationships here. So I ran it by him before I confronted her yet again last week, when she cancelled yet another meeting with me.

    And, Bill said just let it go. He suggested, “Work around her and work on other items on the list – note you tried to have meetings on the document list in case it becomes an issue. I think we have enough to do that we don’t need to aggravate ourselves.”

    He also said to just ask her in person, at her desk, when to meet, so she can’t give excuses as easily. I thought it was wise, diplomatic. And I did exactly what he said.

    When it comes to men, I try to choose my battles. But I am also aware that this process is about practice and self-esteem and self-awareness. So sometimes I just say it, knowing he will get upset, and let the chips land where they may!

  96.  #96dorothea on August 9, 2010 at 9:57 am

    Lucy, girl, you are feeling insecure. And so you’re saying ungoddessy, overfunctiony things like “would it be easier/cheaper to just mail them?”

    and then letting him know you had a great time with the expectation of a particular response. he did not respond how you would have liked, so you feel bad. reclaim your vibe RIGHT NOW and stop this. he will come back for more.

  97.  #97Brenda on August 9, 2010 at 10:00 am


    Thank you! I am very happy to hear you had such an excellent time with WH! It is hard not knowing. I don’t know if this would have been leaning forward too much, but I wonder what would have happened if you had said what you did up above:

    “I feel really awkward and uncomfortable thinking about meeting you just to get my glasses while not knowing if you want to date me again — it would feel horrible doing that. What do you think?”

  98.  #98Lucy on August 9, 2010 at 10:00 am

    Oops. Actually, his text said, “Yeah, we had a great night. :)”

  99.  #99Brenda on August 9, 2010 at 10:00 am

    Dorothea, AMEN!

  100.  #100AmberS on August 9, 2010 at 10:01 am


    Thank you so much for replying. I am enjoying watching you do the siren song with Bill 🙂 You are growing up! Please don’t be offended by that. I mean it as a compliment. In my book growing up is a BIG DEAL and exactly what I hope to do.

    This is going to be a long answer…

    I have given him the speech- even demoted him in the past and he always comes back- (3 years now) but is just terrified of commitment. I’ve been divorced (twice). He’s been divorced once. His wife destroyed him when she divorced him, but that’s his junk. I’ve told him that (calmly and in feeling messages). He just got transferred to another state and asked me to go with him. He just flew me there for a week and tried the entire time to convince that I should move. I’m sorry this answer is so long winded.

    After reading this last post I sent the following:


    It’s 3 am and I’ve been staring at the ceiling for the past couple hours, trying to find some order in my feelings. They’re not cooperating tonight.

    I’ve had a rough couple of days since Florida. Feeling confused and queasy and weird and not sure what to do.

    I feel insecure and uncertain.

    A relationship without serious lifelong commitment is just dating. Really, exclusive or not, that’s all it is. It can be wonderful, and it may be what you want, and it might even work for you just fine – but it still is just dating.

    Commitment is a leap of faith. For two people not bound by religious or societal constraints it is a real risk. That leap of faith means that you are willing to gamble on us. That we are worth the risk of losing. It’s not a leap of faith without the risk.

    But I don’t know if you’re ready. Even as the love of your life I may not be “enough”. I feel unclear and uncertain if you ever will be.

    I feel unhappy and insecure “waiting” for you. I can’t take that kind of emotional strain, and I don’t want to feel insecure and always wondering how you feel.

    I want to feel calm and peaceful, and I want to feel loved.

    I want to trust that I am loved.

    And commitment is what makes that possible.

    I want a partner to grow with through the rest of my days.

    I don’t want to push you. I don’t want a commitment based on an ultimatum. You are entitled to take all the time you need to decide about committing to a lifelong relationship.


    I can not keep being with you in limbo. It doesn’t feel good for me to wait around wondering if you will ever think I am “it” for you. It makes me feel insecure and frustrated. I don’t want to feel that way.

    What do you think I should do under the circumstances?

    You are my best friend and my lover, what would you recommend as the best way for me to take care of myself until you’re ready?

    FYI- I am very clear that I don’t want to be married again (ever) and that took him a while to adjust to. I’ve told him I DO want a lifelong commitment. Without it I feel every little bump as if it were a major earthquake. Even the smallest thing can make me feel shaken to my foundation.

    God Bless Rori and her amazing communication. I pretty much just took a few things she’d written and applied them to my situation.

  101.  #101Brenda on August 9, 2010 at 10:02 am

    Oh, did I mention Bill stopped by my desk about an hour ago just to tell me something unimportant that he could have put in a one sentence email? LOL!

    Love it! I’ve been craving the sight of HIS face all weekend, too! I’m in liiiiike! 😛

  102.  #102Lucy on August 9, 2010 at 10:02 am

    Dorothea, how else could I have handled it without asking him to mail them?

  103.  #103Lucy on August 9, 2010 at 10:03 am

    I feel kinda mad hearing that asking for my glasses back is “overfunctioning.”

  104.  #104Brenda on August 9, 2010 at 10:09 am



    We are both growing up! 🙂 And, no, I took no offense to that. I can talk the talk, but I am still learning to walk the walk. You’d be surprised how little actual real relationship experience I have for being a 46 year old woman.

    I have been totally focusing on growing and healing my emotional damage this past year plus. I have grown faster over the past 4-5 months since I joined this blog than ever before! It is exciting! I am finally starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel! This blog and all my friends here feels like having the benefit of multiple therapists! I am IN therapy, and you ladies have left my therapist in the dust! LOL! Thank you all once again, and especially you, Rori!!! You are the Queen of Relationship Coaches in my book!

  105.  #105Brenda on August 9, 2010 at 10:10 am

    Amber, P.S. You never need to apologize for writing too much on here. There is no “You Used Too Much Paper Police”! Spam away!

  106.  #106Brenda on August 9, 2010 at 10:17 am


    My understanding of what Dorothea meant is that you had every right to get your glasses back IN PERSON, not mail them! I think mailing them is in a way like, “I’m really sorry to inconvenience you. Maybe I would be less of an inconvenience if you just mailed them, rather than getting them in person.”

    For real, seeing if he did offer to bring them to you AND have another date could have been a wide open option. If he didn’t want to, then HE could have suggested mailing them. I think you may have a blind spot, that beneath your wonderful self you are hiding in a little pocket of poor self-esteem. I say this gently, like a loving sister. I do the same thing, so you are a mirror to me right now. Maybe you even feel attacked by us right now because of that.

    You handled it beautifully, ok? We are just trying to help you tweak how you handled it. If you had leaned back to see what he would offer, you might have a second date lined up, that’s all. But it’s okay,, because we are all learning in baby steps, and sometimes it’s easier to see someone else’s situation more clearly than our own.

    Like the women keep saying, “You can’t say the wrong thing to the right person!”

    Of course you needed to let him know your glasses were lost in his car and you needed them back. Do you see what I’m saying? I am just trying to clear up any misunderstanding.

    What I heard in Dorothea’s words was love and care for you.

  107.  #107dorothea on August 9, 2010 at 10:18 am

    Hey Lucy, asking for your glasses is not overfunctioning. Seeing if mailing them would be easier or cheaper for him is.

    It’s also side-stepping dealing with scary feelings of possible rejection.

    Hmm, how to handle it differently instead of asking him to mail them. Well, he asked when you could meet to get them back, and you pushed it away out of fear of feeling rejected. So you could have said, “It would feel great to have them back as soon as possible” and then let him row, be unattached to outcome. Be surprised. Your response basically pushed him away because you’re scared. I want to hug you! I would feel scared too. I’m pretty sure I’ve done something like this like a bazillion times.

    Maybe you could have told him…”Gosh, it would feel great to have my glasses back ASAP, but I feel a little nervous and thrown off at the thought of seeing a man so soon after a first date for anything but a date. WHat do you think?”

    or something like that.

  108.  #108Brenda on August 9, 2010 at 10:19 am

    Karen, RE: #42 – You said, “I asked him if I was still on the ‘short’ list, and he told me that I was on top (and then asked me if I enjoyed being on top, lol)…”

    Very effective banter for keeping things fun and tense! Love it!

  109.  #109Lucy on August 9, 2010 at 10:26 am

    If I said something like what Brenda suggested, that would be leaning forward with my feelings too much for just a first date — and it would be basically asking him if he wants to date me again —

    Also, I did not “let him know you had a great time with the expectation of a particular response” — I simply used a feeling message telling him that the kiss felt really good — and the reason i did that was to simply let him KNOW that it felt good, because I hadn’t said it at the time and I was the one who stopped the kiss first, and earlier I had told him about a guy I’ve dated who I didn’t like kissing — and I wanted to express to him that I DID like kissing HIM — that’s all — no expectation of a particular response — just wanted to express that to him — to communicate that to him . . . It wasn’t until after the convo ended that I started thinking again that I wish I knew if he wanted to see me again…. but that was not the intent of my feeling message … it was a kiss that stayed on my lips, ya know, and I was sharing my feelings in the moment….. exactly what Rori says to do . . . then HE mentioned that we had a “great night” — I didn’t even say anything to him about the date in general — just the kiss.

  110.  #110dorothea on August 9, 2010 at 10:28 am

    holy lucy’s thoughts firing all over the place, batwomen! I hereby order you with my boy energy to do something nice for yourself today.

  111.  #111Brenda on August 9, 2010 at 10:30 am

    Lucy, RE: #54 – You said, “WH pointed out a lesbian bar at the beach, and I said, “Yeah, I’ve thought about going that way since I’m having trouble finding a man I want.”

    How did he respond?

    Your date sounds like the stuff dreams are made of! You also could have expressed more confidence by telling him more deep feeling messages than, “I enjoyed it too”. Maybe he needs to know how earth-shattering it was, too, not just us! I am so happy for you! Go Winker Hottie!!

  112.  #112Brenda on August 9, 2010 at 10:33 am

    Dorothea, RE: #109 – LOL! You are funny!

    Lucy, I hope you know we are NOT attacking you! You seem defensive. We are just giving open, honest, feedback! Ya don good! K? Ya don realllllllllllllllly good! Sounds like you handled yourself perfectly, and the skirt blowing up while you were playing the game was the perfect sumer beach date touch!!! You rock, Siren!

  113.  #113AmberS on August 9, 2010 at 10:35 am

    Hi Lucy,

    I’m glad you had a good time with him or your date. I feel weird reading about this glasses situation because it feels hard for me to ask for a favor AND be siren like. I really like Dorothea’s answer in #106.

    My thing would be that I am here now, so I would try to change my vibe. Maybe I’m processing my experience with the date and so not ready to see him so soon. Maybe I’m not sure how interested I really am, because I still have other possibilities and I’m keeping my energy all about me.

    That’s what I would do, because I would want my energy to be in that state when he next contacts me. I don’t know for sure if this is the Rori way- so if I’m going against her advice please ignore me!

    Big breath.

  114.  #114Lucy on August 9, 2010 at 10:38 am

    Yeah, any of those other responses would have been leaning forward and hinting at a second date — if I had been able to come up with a way to express it WITHOUT leaning forward and hinting at a second date — I would have.

    I totally felt that I was worth his “inconvenience” etc — I was just not wanting to put myself into a horrible-feeling situation. I suppose I could’ve just planned to meet him and allowed myself to endure the intense pain and heartache of meeting just to get my glasses and then hearing him say “have a nice life” and walking away.

    The other thing is, I wouldn’t have time to meet him before wednesday anyway.

  115.  #115Brenda on August 9, 2010 at 10:40 am

    Eva, RE: #56 – Moving in with Him

    Moving in is like marriage with no marriage commitment. I think it’s a huge mistake. It gives him priveleges that he has not earned. You can’t let the relationship develop organically because you have made a major commitment that can so easily backfire on you.

    Can you rent a place until you can buy one?

  116.  #116dorothea on August 9, 2010 at 10:42 am

    I think where you’re coming from is totally understandable, Lucy.

    All this is understandable. It’s how I feel when I have a big ol’ crush on a guy, too! I hope you’ll do something lovely for yourself today. Take yourself for a walk or ice cream or window shopping or whatever it is you like to do to feel good.

  117.  #117Brenda on August 9, 2010 at 10:42 am


    I see what you mean about it seeming like you were leaning forward. He could have even wondered if you accidentally-on-purpose “dropped” your glasses.

    So yeah, ya don good! 🙂

  118.  #118Brenda on August 9, 2010 at 10:43 am

    Lucy likes to go to fancy restaurants…with Brenda! 🙂 Just messin with ya! I do have another coupon tho!

  119.  #119dorothea on August 9, 2010 at 10:44 am

    I’m jealous…I want to go to restaurants with you too. Maybe lucy and I can fight over you. Haha

  120.  #120Brenda on August 9, 2010 at 10:46 am

    Lucy, RE: #57 – You said, “I know I was only able to lean back fully and naturally and be authentically me (quirks and all) on my looong date with winker hottie BECAUSE I had PRACTICED so much with guys I wasn’t into. Yes, practice and “free therapy” really works. Thanks, Rori and everyone who contributes here.”

    That’s awesome and so encouraging! I am already starting to feel my vibe shift to more confident. I found myself leaning back in my seat organically today when Bill stopped by my desk.

    You are a very beautiful woman, inside and out!

  121.  #121Brenda on August 9, 2010 at 10:49 am

    Dorothea, am I allowed to ask where you live? Or what time zone? I would love to go out to eat with you, too!

    Last time I went with Lucy, I had brief food poisoning and was sick and headachy. Darling Lucy left the restaurant to go buy me pain reliever, and she was very sensitive and gentle with me. I felt very cared for, and she is going to make some man very happy!

  122.  #122tinque on August 9, 2010 at 10:52 am

    “Moving in is like marriage with no marriage commitment.”

    I can’t agree with this completely. Yes this could backfire, but then again so can marriage. And not everyone sees marriage as the goal. There can be a beautiful marriage without the actual marriage.
    I have always lived with my partners to see how we are together in this way, and I don’t just mean sexually thought this certainly factors in.
    I feel strongly that you just don’t know until you do it. Dating and living together are very different things.
    Sometimes it works out, and sometimes it doesn’t, and a commitment to marry does not guarantee anything.

  123.  #123dorothea on August 9, 2010 at 10:54 am

    Ok, time to talk about Me me me. hehe.

    So I have been unzipping my heart a lot with LI. It feels effing scary. He is still around.

    Brenda gave me the most amazing advice. She said something along the lines of “tell him you feel mistrusting and ask him what he thinks we can do about it.”

    I have been using that line for all the negative voices that come up with getting into a serious relationship. I tell him that *i* have this issue with a bad feeling, and I ask him if he thinks there’s anything we can do about it. It works like a charm, and it puts the ball in his court, and it gets him rowing instead of reacting to my freak outs.

    This whole experience with LI has been CRAZY. I have never felt so much bad and good emotion. I have never felt so afraid. I have never wanted to run away and be alone for the rest of my life so bad. I have never opened my heart like this. I have never realized how much my past affects me now. I never realized how guarded I really am.

    I am so good at meeting men and just dating them. They fall in love easily and I seem so confident and in touch with myself and fun to be around. It’s the getting close part that’s hard. Most men don’t realize that underneath all the confidence and self-assuredness, there are still many layers of fear and emotion. But we never get there. I never feel so interested that we can even get there. But LI has gotten me there. And it seems like he’s not going anywhere.

  124.  #124Brenda on August 9, 2010 at 10:55 am

    Erika Awakening, RE: #61 – You said, “Shrug. Most women don’t know their value. I do.”

    LOVE IT! That is the outlook I have been cultivating! No more throwing myself at the feet of inmates, alcoholics, and men on disability.

    I am steadily replacing myself self-talk with stuff like, “I am infinitely valuable. Any man who gets to spend the rest of his life with me is very fortunate!”

  125.  #125dorothea on August 9, 2010 at 10:56 am

    Yes, I live in Denver. Everyone come visit!

  126.  #126AmberS on August 9, 2010 at 11:08 am


    That is incredible! Wow! I

    ‘ve been copying small bits off the board for a while. I keep them in a draft email and re-read them when I’m freaking out. I LOVE the feeling message Brenda gave you. That one is goin’ in the file (thanks Brenda).

  127.  #127Brenda on August 9, 2010 at 11:13 am

    Eva, RE: #75 – That man was angered by you having a boyfriend, which tells me he was very immature. I would say it in one word to him: EVOLVE!

    I think as long as we follow Rori’s guidelines to speak in feeling messages and I want messages to give a “No Boyfriend Speech”, we are safe. If a man explodes like this one did, do you really want him?! Not!

    The mature men who know who they are will negotiate with us, and step up!

  128.  #128Lucy on August 9, 2010 at 11:14 am

    I feel mad at myself for not being what he wanted. He was what *I* wanted.

  129.  #129Brenda on August 9, 2010 at 11:16 am

    Dorothea and Amber, I am glad I was able to help! I will be quick to say it is something I heard on Rori’s CD! She’s the master mind here, not me! I’m just the parrot! 🙂

    Dorothea, I am so happy you are discovering yourself and finding a more intimate relationship!

  130.  #130Brenda on August 9, 2010 at 11:19 am

    Lucy! How do you know you aren’t what he wanted??? He kissed you at the end of the date, for goodness sake! Would he have done that if he weren’t attracted? Would he have spent many hours with you if he weren’t attracted? Would he have sat side by side on the damp sand in the dark a few feet from the ocean if he weren’t attracted??

    Pretty lady, are these the nasty voices screaming in your heart? Are they true? Go put them in the corner and give them a cookie, as Tinque would say!

    He was mesmerized! Be surprised!

  131.  #131Jacqueline on August 9, 2010 at 11:31 am

    Hi! @ Lucy….I think it’s great if you up your vibe, but that is a big bummer situation. Wow, he’s gonna MAIL ’em? and I think that was perfectly appropriate for someone to say who wanted HIM to step up – but doesn’t sound like he’s going to. Sorry to be the party pooper/realist….lol….maybe you can build on that date to use as a springboard for the “perfect” guy/day/date?>?

    @ Eva – thanks for clarifying! I too came here to make my relationship better…have what I want…smile, I’m glad you’re gonna do the work; we’ll both be on this journey together!

    All – saying YES to every single face to face will wear you down and out, I think….maybe have a 15 minute – time limited with you hanging up first! – phone conversation first? I ran through about 5 or more on weekends with just that – you find out what disabled really means, etc. I think the point is to get “out there” into life, not to spend all your time at a coffee table with men!


  132.  #132Brenda on August 9, 2010 at 11:45 am

    Renee, RE: #79 – You said, “I don’t know how many more nights I can hold off when we’re already at the point where we’re in bed together cuddling. Any tips?”

    As I’ve already shared publicly on here (oh, Lord!), I have already been quite promiscuous sexually in the past. So when I started hanging out with Ryan last year, and he wanted to cuddle in bed, I was hot to trot! It was all I could do to keep my hands off of him, because just the stimulus of being in bed with a man was all it took for my veins to flood with passion juice!

    Other than some very light playing around, it became very clear he just wanted to cuddle and have pillow talk! I thought, “How ironic! I’ve been with so many men who grope me, and I felt so turned off! Now I am the one wanting to grope this hottie who is right here in my bed! And it is so hard to resist!

    I had to summon strength from within by going back to my days as a virgin, and then beyond! I had to steel my muscles to keep my arms by my side! After a while, it felt SO delicious to be with Ryan in bed, night after night, and just cuddle and have pillow talk! I relished the moments when he did touch me and kiss me. But more than anything, I came to relish how amazing I felt that he cared enough about me to get to know me on the INSIDE before getting to know my body! I felt valued! Because my heart, mind, and spirit are the real me!

  133.  #133Lucy on August 9, 2010 at 12:21 pm

    He gave me his CD and I started listening to it yesterday, and I really like his music, but now it feels bad to think about listening to it, which feels sad. And I feel sad seeing the strip of photos of us from the photo booth on my dresser.

    Meanwhile, 25 started texting me again and wants to know when we can hang out. Ick.

  134.  #134Lucy on August 9, 2010 at 12:29 pm

    Renee, the only times I’ve been able to cuddle in bed with a guy without having sex were the times with my college boyfriend when HE was restraining us because he wanted us to wait til marriage (I agreed in principle, but wouldn’t have been able to carry it out if it had been up to me.)

    Or — if I’m not physically attracted to a guy (at all) I can do that.

    Otherwise, my libido is way too strong and I just need to stay outta the bed in the first place!!!

  135.  #135Lucy on August 9, 2010 at 12:30 pm

    I wish I had said yes to meeting to get my glasses.

  136.  #136Laughing goddess on August 9, 2010 at 1:01 pm

    Blah to NV’s!!!! Blah! Boring! Yuk! Old news!!!

    Blah blah blah blah blah

    I want to hear the PV’s (positive voices)

    Yes! I am good enough. Of course he wants me. I believe in myself. All is well. I’m doing great. I vote for me!!! I believe!!!!

  137.  #137Laughing goddess on August 9, 2010 at 1:07 pm

    Yay! It feels good to know I have control of my own thoughts and I can think thoughts that feel good.

    I love my life.
    Everything is okay.
    I create my own reality and I’m creating a good one.
    Each day is a new beginning.
    Life can be fun.
    It’s all about my attitude.
    I live that I can follow my bliss.
    I love that life is so free and open to changing to match my vibration.
    I love that I am in control of my own point of focus.
    I love that all I have to do is become the change I want to see.

  138.  #138Erika Awakening on August 9, 2010 at 1:12 pm

    On way to doctor …

    Too much thinking ..,

    eyeglasses … No big deal … Trip cancel … No big deal

    stay centered. Everything is just another opportunity to learn more about each other.

    As the woman, pre-sex, you are the buyer. He is the seller. It’s his job to convince you he’s the best.

    Sex will not happen until escrow has closed and all uncertainties are settled. Stay in your power. No point getting attached to the house until it’s yours.

  139.  #139Laughing goddess on August 9, 2010 at 1:14 pm

    I love my life.
    I love my dog.
    I love my friends.
    I love kids.
    I love my garden.
    I love nature.
    I love my band.
    I love my hot, sexy body.
    I love my fertile womb.
    I love my warm sweet heart.
    I love my brilliant smile.
    I love that I laugh easily.
    I love laughing.
    I love art.
    I love beauty.
    I love my deck with it’s cool breeze and majestic trees surrounding it.
    I love my laughter.
    I love my little two year old friend.
    I love my amazingly beautiful flower garden.
    I love that I know Roris work.
    I love that I will never make the same mistakes again.
    I love that I am evolving.
    I love that R sticks with me.
    I love the juicy attraction of feel for RS.
    I love waking up next to a strong handsome man who totally digs me.
    I love feeling good.

  140.  #140Laughing goddess on August 9, 2010 at 1:20 pm

    I love my clean organized home.
    I love being prosperous.
    I love being a deliberate creator.
    I love that life is fun.
    I love feeling enthusiastic.
    I love dancing.
    I love moving my body.
    I love creating beauty.
    I love the freedom that my new car gives me.
    I love the unlimited potential of life.
    I love my dad!
    I love my mom!
    I love all of my family.
    I love unconditional love.
    I love learning new things.
    I love the feeling of being well rested.
    I love connecting with others.
    I love all the beautiful amazing people in my life.

  141.  #141Renee on August 9, 2010 at 1:26 pm

    Lucy — I’m with you on the sex thing…it’s one thing when the man is the one being restrained…if that were the case, I would have no problem going along with that approach (because he wouldn’t be getting me all hot and bothered in the first place!) Otherwise, just sitting there making out for 2 hours is incredibly difficult…I’ve managed to do this twice with this man now, and I’d like to think my willpower is strong enough to withstand gayle forces, but the truth is, it’s incredibly difficult, despite knowing in my mind that it’s the best idea.

    So the dilemma I foresee coming next is this — he’s traveled to my state for the last two visits and now he’s probably going to ask me to come visit him next time…I’m tempted to say yes, on the condition that he has a guest bedroom I can sleep in, because this teasing each other for hours crap is for 15-yr-olds! lol.

    Don’t know how he’ll react to that request…I suspect he’ll agree but actually try to get me to stay the night with him when I get there and I don’t know how I feel about that. I mean, on the one hand, I do think it’s normal for a red-blooded man to want sex with a woman he’s attracted to, and based on his answers to some of my initial questions, it appears he’s been celibate for about 4 months at this point.

    On the other hand, it does make me feel a bit like he’s more interested in getting to know my body before he knows my heart and mind, and while that’s not “abnormal”, it wouldn’t feel good to know his primary interest in me is sex. He seems like such a “wholesome” guy in most regards too, that it’s natural to want to assign purer motives to him, but that doesn’t mean he’s not capable of using a woman for sex just like many men are.

    I guess, until I feel more comfortable with our budding relationship, I’ll just have to be the one setting limits in that area, but it’s surely not easy!

  142.  #142Laughing goddess on August 9, 2010 at 1:30 pm

    I love my beautiful clothes.
    I love the way they fit my body.
    I love my new handmade leather boots.
    I love the connection I had with the woman who made them.
    I love my shiny new garnet necklace.
    I love the detail and care with which it was made.
    I love that I have friends who are gentle and kind.
    Wow! I feel especially touched by their kindness.
    I love making new friends.
    I love the community I live in.
    I love that there are so many creative people here.
    I love that so many of my dreams have come true.
    I feel so supported by spirit.
    I love the abundance that is available to me.
    I love the strength of mother earth.
    I love nature.
    I love the weather.
    I love the ocean.
    I love Hawaii
    I love coconuts.
    I love brilliant shiny crystals.
    I love peacock feathers.
    I love shamans and shamaness.
    I love myself.
    I love this life I have cocreated.
    I live that spirit is always here. Always always available to me.
    I love my sweet innocent inner child.
    I love my higher self.
    I love my physical incarnations.
    I love goats.
    I love goat milk.
    I love permaculture.
    I live soft wet green grass.
    I love flowers.
    I love hearing the wind blow.
    I live feeling the sun on my skin.
    I love great communication.
    I live expanding myself.

  143.  #143Renee on August 9, 2010 at 1:30 pm

    Brenda — I need your witty mind for this one. I’ve been txting a doctor who lives about 3 hours away…he remarked about the distance, but then made it a point to tell me he does “housecalls”, lol. So I wrote back that I was terribly ill and needed to see a doctor…I didn’t think it was contagious, but it might be serious. How much for the doctor to come see me in (my city).

    He wrote back that it would cost precisely the pleasure of my company for dinner one evening, which I thought was sweet, but I want to come back with a witty reply, and all I keep coming up with is that I’m so ill that I made need to have mouth-to-mouth rescusitation administered when he arrives, and if so, is there any additional charge for that, but that seems to be a bit ‘leany’, so I’m looking for a better comeback. Thoughts?

  144.  #144AmberS on August 9, 2010 at 1:38 pm

    Ask him to bring references! Tell him you don’t let “just any doctor” treat you, etc!

  145.  #145Rori Raye on August 9, 2010 at 1:38 pm

    Lisa – here’s the deal – you’ve started dating a man with the ASSUMPTION that you are exclusive. Did he ever mention this? Who said you are “together”? Age has a lot to do with this – if you’re in college or your early 20’s – a “boyfriend” is an acceptable and good-practice place to be…but boyfriends don’t necessarily lead to marriage. It has nothing to do with it. If you can’t bring yourself to actually go out with other men while you are dating this one – at least FLIRT with other men, do Circular Dating in the way it’s intended – as interacting with men in a therapeutic way for you. Targeting Mr. Right lays the whole system and procedures and even paperwork out for you…Love, Rori

  146.  #146AmberS on August 9, 2010 at 1:39 pm

    Sorry- that was not addressed to me and I jumped in. I was just laughing to myself about the mouth-to-mouth. Sounds like FUN

  147.  #147Laughing goddess on August 9, 2010 at 1:47 pm

    I love looking around my house and seeing all the beautiful gifts people have given me.
    I live getting compliments on my smile.
    I love when my phone types live instead of love. I live the quirky synchronicity of that.
    I love feeling inspired.
    I love when a person interacts with me and I recognize that it god sending a message through them.
    I love knowing that all is well in the universe and my only job is to have fun.
    I love all the amazing women on this site.
    I love that we are growing and evolving together.
    I love that mass consciousness is evolving.
    I love the collective vision of peace, harmony, and properity for all.
    I love feeling good.
    I love knowing that all is well and I am exactly where I am supposed to be.
    I love imagining all the amazing experienced that are coming my way.
    I love imagining how much live I will get to feel.
    I love imagining my future child. What a beautiful sweet angel she is.
    I feel so excited about the life I have to offer her.
    I feel excited to laugh with her.
    I feel excited to watch her grow up.
    I feel excited for the land I will own.
    I feel so excited to co-create with it.
    I feel so excited to see the flowers and trees and veggies and fruits and herbs grow.
    I feel excited to cocreate the beautiful natural structures that will be build easily and effortlessly.
    I feel excited to develop my ability to visualize energy flow.
    I feel excited to develop a new sense with which to experience the physical world.
    I feel excited to witness how easily and effortlessly my life flows.
    I feel excited to be a yogini.
    I feel excited to experience how free my body can feel.

  148.  #148Laughing goddess on August 9, 2010 at 2:01 pm

    I love all the amazing women in my life.
    I feel excited to get to know them better.
    I feel excited about all the cool fun things we will do together.
    I feel anticipation for the laughter and the love.
    I feel excited to expand my wardrobe and make beautiful things.
    I feel so much anticipation for when I get to sew those sweet pillows.
    I love my home so much.
    I love the pillows and the chandelier made of shells.
    I feel so excited to make some more of those. They are going to be so beautiful.
    And I’m so excited to plant a veggie garden. It is going to be so lush and prosperous.
    I am so excited for my new body. It is lean, muscles strong, with curves in all the right places.
    I live the color of my hair. I love the streaks and natual highlighting. I live the way it looks when the sun shines on it.
    I love my skin. How it protects me, how soft smooth and resilient it is.
    I live that I can express myself here as much as I want.
    I love feeling accepted and supported.
    I live eating a good and healthy lunch.
    I love it when I feel strong healthy energy flowing through me.
    I love easily and effortlessly being productive.
    I live knowing that there is no rush. Everything will happen in it’s own perfect timing.
    I love having so many male examples from which to model my image of the ideal man.
    I love my papa. What a sweet sweet man. How lucky I am to have my family.
    Mmmmmm life is so sweet

  149.  #149Renee on August 9, 2010 at 2:03 pm

    Amber — love that idea! Think I’ll use that:-)

  150.  #150Laughing goddess on August 9, 2010 at 2:12 pm

    And I live my sweet puppy sleeping next to me.
    I love the he gets to have so many friends to play with.
    I love how well he gets along with ither dogs.
    I love how calm and well behaved he is when we go to work.
    I live that my landlord is getting his yearly inspection done early this year.
    I live that everything will be ready and he will be super nice and live what I’ve done with the place.
    I live that my partner quit so easily and effortlessly and now I get to run things the way I want.
    I love how much easier it will be.
    I live that I will be even more successful on my own.
    I love looking into Rs deep brown eyes.
    I live looking at him and feeling attracted.
    I love the way it feels between us when things are going well.
    I live knowing that no matter what happens between us, I will have my own happily ever after and so will he.
    I love eating yummy food.
    I love feeling my little dogs paws poking in to my back.

  151.  #151Erika Awakening on August 9, 2010 at 2:13 pm

    Hmm do you ladies want to feel desired by a man? I sure do. That’s a big part of what makes me feel like a woman.

    For me to feel desired, he must be initiating and escalating sexually, and I must be going where I feel comfortable and then saying no to anything else … While making it clear that of course nothing would make me happier than to be f*cked by him every night until the end of time.

    When I hear men being restrained in bed, I feel turned off. I have thoughts of Blech, yet another man who hasn’t learned how to be a man.

  152.  #152Laughing goddess on August 9, 2010 at 2:18 pm

    I love that all that matters is I accept myself.
    I love consciously lifting my own vibration
    I love feeling accepted and appreciated.
    I love the feeling of being recognized and loved and appreciated.
    I love that I can do all those things for myself and the world will mirror them back to me.
    I’m excited to move forward into the next segment if my day.
    I will carry these great feelings with me.
    I’m excited to let myself be awed by the beauty and magic of life.
    I feel so excited to experience that limitless gifts spirit will shower me with today.

  153.  #153lm on August 9, 2010 at 2:23 pm


    i’m loving your comments on this post. i feel sort of down, like i’ve been expecting so little of men lately that to admit that i want to be FULL ON desired seems crazy. i want to change my expectations and therefore my outcomes!

  154.  #154Brenda on August 9, 2010 at 2:26 pm

    Renee, RE: #143 – Housecalls

    LOL~Love it! You could say…

    “I feel so excited about that! And I’m sure my cupid insurance will cover that! When and where?”

  155.  #155Brenda on August 9, 2010 at 2:27 pm

    Amber, RE: #146 – We sometimes address them to each other, but as far as I’m concerned, this is an open forum…so jump in! I love it when I get feedback from a bunch of Sirens!

  156.  #156Laughing goddess on August 9, 2010 at 2:37 pm

    I love knowing that I am getting more and more beautiful every day.
    I love that my skin is getting smoother and softer.
    I love playing with my things and moving them around until my house feels clean and organized.
    I love feeling clean and refreshed when I take a shower.
    I love when I feel attractive and beautiful.
    I love the way R looks at me and I know he is feeling turned on by my sexy body.
    I love feeling like a beautiful queen.
    I live being such a good drummer.
    I love how it feels to know the beats.
    I love feeling confident.
    I love seeing people dance to our music and knowing that I am bringing joy into anothers life.
    I live the feeling of my clean organized closet.
    I love that I did it so easily last night.
    I love crossing things off my to do list.
    It feels soooooo good.
    I love the timing of my landlord coming. It will be perfect.
    I love how my place is going to look.
    I love that we already took steps to getting it nice and organized.
    I live that those friends that weren’t serving me have easily moved on.
    I love that I haven’t had any drama in my life in quite some time.
    I loved going to that festival.
    I loved the sweet interactions I had.
    I live the energy between R and I. I feel turned on around him.
    I love knowing that things will work out for the best.
    I love knowing that feeling good is my only job. I love knowing that god will take care of the rest.
    I love that I am going to get fish and chips for dinner. It is going to be sooooo good!
    It would feel good to eat with R. I would live to spend more time with him. I would love to get to know him better. Mmmmm yum!
    I feel excited to see how this plays out.
    I live knowing that whatever happens will be the exact perfect thing.
    I love knowing that it is inevitable that things will work out well.

  157.  #157Brenda on August 9, 2010 at 2:38 pm


    When I was with Ryan, I made mistakes that turned me purple with embarrassment! I really messed up bigtime! I leaned forward again and again. He caught me spying on him at his house. I texted him crying sometimes, begging him to come over and cuddle. I could go on and on with the really tacky, UNsocially acceptable things I said and did.

    Over and over, he would smile and give us a fresh start, backing up the relationship. Because in many ways it was my first relationship, and he understood that I severely lacked in emotional intelligence (knowing what to say, when to say it, and how to say it). He kept giving me chance after chance.

    When I felt overwhelmed by negative, nasty voices inside, I repeated the outcome I wanted, “Ryan is my husband. We are in love. We are going to spend the rest of our lives together.”

    I spoke it as if it already was. I required myself to smile and hold my head high as if commitment were a done deal. Maybe it wasn’t healthy to do that in that I eventually felt totally attached to the outcome. But it combatted my negative voices.

    You have handled your first date beautifully. Just rest in the acceptance and beauty you enjoyed with WH. Another thing, he wouldn’t have taken pictures with you if he wasn’t planning to have a next date!

    And I recommend the book to you, “The Secret”. It talks about inviting into your life what you want. There is power in the spoken word!

  158.  #158Lucy on August 9, 2010 at 2:40 pm

    Hey, Erika, I completely agree with you!

    There’s a whole lotta context to that college boyfriend scenario that I didn’t bother to share earlier —

    1. We were at a conservative Christian college and he was trying to be a “good Christian young man” — and there were constantly chapel speakers admonishing, encouraging, preaching, etc. about abstinence. He would take it so far and then stop out of guilt — (yuck, I know!) — but he was incredibly sexy, hot, amazing kisser, fondler, etc etc. We actually ended up getting kicked out of college b/c he spent the night in my room (girls-only dorm) and my RA saw his jacket in my room the next day…. yeah.

    2. We were engaged, and went to work together at a live-in conservative Christian summer camp — where we weren’t even allowed to hold hands on the camp property. On our days off, he continued to be into me physically but then draw the line and be a “good Christian boy.”

    3. The married camp director started coming onto me during our racy talks at night by the fence near his home. I felt very attracted and sexually frustrated.

    4. I broke off the engagement b/c I wanted the camp director.

    5. The camp director easily persuaded me to come home with him one night while his wife was working the night shift at the hospital. I had my night of ecstasy.

    6. The next day I realized it couldn’t go anywhere and wanted my fiance back — but he could read the signs and knew something had happened — and he had actually quit the job and gone home b/c he was so heartbroken — and he wouldn’t take me back.

    Lots of lessons in there.

  159.  #159Brenda on August 9, 2010 at 2:43 pm

    Y’know how we give feeling messages when a man just carries a “relationship” on and on by phone calls, emails, and texts? I am beginning to feel a similar way about Bill going on and on with an at-work friendship. I want so badly for him to ask me out for a real date, outside of work.

    I don’t want to rush the process, because I like it when it develops organically. But he is going so slowly that I actually wondered at one point if he was gay! Now I am clear that he is attracted to me, and BTW, he just stopped by my desk just to say good night on his way out!

    But would it be appropriate to give him a feeling message that it would feel good to get to know him more outside of work? Is that leaning forward?

    It’s just that I’ve had so many men just do things “safely”. He runs no risk with his heart befriending me at work.

    Another idea is I could say Christian Carter’s line to him, “Now that you’ve found a REAL woman, you don’t know what to do with her!” Just to tease him in a humorous way to make a move!

    What do you all think?

  160.  #160Erika Awakening on August 9, 2010 at 2:45 pm


    thank you 🙂 this is why I stopped CD. Don’t get me wrong, it had its usefulness. But at this point, I am done dating a bunch of watered down men. My dates were turning into coaching sessions … And really these guys should have been paying me for that 🙂

    This is part of why I like my frame a lot of evaluating men’s skills as men, which I do on my blog. It keeps me firmly in the position of buyer, where I belong.

    There was a time when I’d get attached to men early on who now wouldn’t even get a second date. That’s cuz I didn’t have this frame of objectively looking at how they were performing as men. He has to show up fully as a man to capture my attention.

    And so now I’m so in my feminine that I won’t even go on dating sites. The man I want isn’t on there. He’s do powerful in his life that he already organically has women all around him. I will follow my passions, and he will find me (if he hasn’t already 😉 ) …

    In my extensive experience, both dating and coaching, the guys I’m hearing described on here are not even close to what I’m talking about for a real man. And I don’t say that to dis on anyone’s honey. I say that with the intention to mean ‘Don’t give up your power to men who aren’t even worth it …’

    these men often take years of coaching to become real men … If you’re going to be the woman who transforms him, wouldn’t you rather become a coach like me and get paid for it lol? 😉

  161.  #161Lucy on August 9, 2010 at 2:46 pm

    Thanks Brenda! I texted my guy friend (Tattoo Man) with the question about WH’s interest — and he CALLED me to talk about it — which totally surprised me! (be surprised.) We talked a long time — he is a “sensitive musician” like WH is — and he thinks WH could be thinking the same things about me that I am thinking about him — and having the same doubts and questions about MY interest — and fearful of rejection etc. — and he said musicians usually have a mix of fem/masc energy in their romantic relationships — and he gave me some advice — and was so FUN to talk to!!!! So I feel hopeful — from his words and the words of some of you on here. Thanks everyone. <3 gtg for now.

  162.  #162Brenda on August 9, 2010 at 2:46 pm

    Lucy, OUCH! wow, what a tough thing to have gone thru!

  163.  #163Brenda on August 9, 2010 at 2:49 pm

    Erika Awakening, I love how you come from a position of strength! Thank you for being such a role model to us!

    I posted this in 89 and I would deeply appreciate it if you could give me your feedback…

    Here’s a question for you that would really help if you can answer it…how do you ramp it up with discussing sexual topics without leading a man on to believe he’s going to have sex with you sooner than later?

    I used to go straight for sex, and I know very well how to get a man wild (for example, “I want you to suck my nipples!” or “I want to give you a long, deep masssage…in my pussy!”) So I know you are right.

    However, we have both agreed we want to hold off on sex until marriage, so how do you balance the two? I don’t want to mislead a man. I usually avoid sexual talk at the beginning now that I am reformatting my love life! What do you think?

  164.  #164Erika Awakening on August 9, 2010 at 3:04 pm

    I should add that none of what I said takes away from the value of CD. Rori is right on the money with the ‘man always has a message’ approach, something to teach us. I say everything I said more with the intention of ‘see these guys objectively and it’ll be a lot easier to stay Diva-like.’

  165.  #165Laughing goddess on August 9, 2010 at 3:05 pm

    I love knowing that I can feel amazing no matter what is going on around me.
    I love knowing that only i am in charge of my vibration.
    I love knowing that my positve vibration will ripple out before me influencing the situations I walk in to.
    I live knowing that if I continue to focus on the beauty around me it will multiply.
    I love know that the world is just mirroring my vibration back to me.
    I love knowing that if I stay in a place of love, I will attract supportive and loving people to me.
    I am feeling excited to go care for my body. It will be easy and fun.
    In fact this whole day will be fun. I am so excited to get out there and experience it.
    I feel so thankful for having the time to focus on the beauty in my life.
    I feel proud of myself for taking the time to do it.
    I feel proud of myself.
    Feeling good is my #1 goal.
    Taking care of my vibration is my #1 goal.
    All else will line up from there.
    I feel so relieve to know this secret.
    I feel so relieved to let go of stuggle.
    I feel so relieved to let life carry me lovingly down the stream.
    I feel cradled and basked in gods love.
    I feel nurtured and tended to.
    I feel valued.
    I feel cherished.
    I feel honored.
    I feel good.

  166.  #166Laughing goddess on August 9, 2010 at 3:22 pm

    I love the feeling off taking a bath in a clean bathtub.
    I love the way my skin feels after soaking in a warm salt bath.
    I love the feeling of having all of my nice clothes hung up and available in my closet.
    I love the feeling of being energized for my next experience.
    I feel excited to see R.
    I love knowing that he finds me attractive.
    I love when we kiss.
    I love that we share healthy food together.
    I love when he plans things for us.
    I live when he calls me.
    I feel excited to see him today.
    I feel excited to go get ready.
    I feel happy that I took time out to feel good.
    I feel excited to go out and interact with fun people.
    I feel excited to have fun and drum.
    I feel excited to learn that one song.
    I feel confident that I will get it right today.
    I feel excited to connect with the earths energy.
    I feel excited to move my body.
    I feel excited that I have so many peoe who live me.
    I feel trusting that the universe is hooking me up.
    I feel certain that the universe is always arranging things in my best interest.
    I feel confident in my power to create the life I want.
    I feel so happy my life is always getting better and better.
    It felt good to chill the past few days.
    I’m excited to go out and be social now.
    I live interacting with people.
    It’s fun. Life is easy. Everything is working out just fine.

  167.  #167Laughing goddess on August 9, 2010 at 3:26 pm

    I love that I get to ask myself “what do I WANT to do?”
    it feels so good to follow my heart and do what I love.
    I feel feminine and free.
    I feel blissed.
    I feel excited for what’s to come and appreciative of what’s here.
    I feel good.

  168.  #168lm on August 9, 2010 at 3:30 pm

    erika –

    “I say everything I said more with the intention of ‘see these guys objectively and it’ll be a lot easier to stay Diva-like.’ ”

    this resonates with me because i used to blame myself if a guy wasn’t really all together or healthy or capable of taking care of business and wouldn’t suddenly become an amazing partner for me. it’s like i was saying to myself: ‘if you were a good enough woman you can get any guy to step up.’ i rarely ever thought ‘maybe this guy just can’t do the job.’

    i don’t mean to blame the guy either, but to stop basing my worth on a man’s ability to step up. yikes.

    does that make sense? i feel sort of hungry and out of it…

  169.  #169Laughing goddess on August 9, 2010 at 3:35 pm

    I love all the sirens on this blog and the way they contribute to my life.

  170.  #170tinque on August 9, 2010 at 3:37 pm

    Brenda – I don’t know that there are any “rules” around sexual talk. If you’ve made it clear that you want to wait, and he takes sexy talk as a come on, then maybe you need to rethink this man as being for you.
    It’s not that he has to restrain himself. He needs to show respect.
    Even though I did not wait for a formal commitment, the respect and patience was always there. The commitment was unspoken, but it was clear that even though we were both exploring to see if we really were each others “the one”, we were still committed to each other within this exploration.

  171.  #171AmberS on August 9, 2010 at 3:43 pm

    Oh I feel triggered. Re# 160. I can accept that this is your truth. I can accept that I feel angry. I can accept that I feel judgmental.

    My definition of a real man is so different from this. Breathe. My “real man” has different qualities. This is good. This is positive. This is because we diva’s are all unique and different. I am happy we are all different. I am relieved that there are different types of real men.

  172.  #172AmberS on August 9, 2010 at 3:49 pm

    And I feel the bigger truth in that post, too.

    Thank you. It is good to be reminded that overthinking can really tweak perception.

    It feels good to find my own “junk” and look at it clearly.

  173.  #173Erika Awakening on August 9, 2010 at 3:58 pm

    Lol, I hear ya. Doesn’t matter if your ideal guy looks different from mine. It’s about staying in our power. I could have feeling messaged all day long on here about my guy canceling his trip. Instead I made a conscious choice not to let it have any power over me whatsoever. And that made me very attractive.

  174.  #174dorothea on August 9, 2010 at 3:59 pm

    yay it’s laughing goddess! my LI-having buddy!

  175.  #175dorothea on August 9, 2010 at 4:04 pm

    Erika, I feel confused. I never saw sinking totally into feeling messages here (or anywhere) as the equivalent of letting an event or trigger have power over me. I see it as a way out of letting something have power over me.

    You’re an automatic, and I’m a stick shift. I consciously go through steps to get back to “Drive,” whereas your transmission does it on its own. Or something like that…

  176.  #176AmberS on August 9, 2010 at 4:05 pm

    Yup- totally. Until a couple days ago I’d never posted on this site- but I’ve really gained a TON of perspective from coming here and reading over the past year or so. I love that everyone can come here and practice so that it’s easier in the “real world”. I know when I’m ‘in it’ I can totally lose the ability to be objective. This blog helps me be clear.

  177.  #177AmberS on August 9, 2010 at 4:07 pm

    Crud. I need better etiquette. That “yup” was in response to Erika’s #173.

  178.  #178Lucy on August 9, 2010 at 4:44 pm

    So, with WH — I’m not to let it bother me that he hasn’t asked for a second date (yet) — don’t give up my power — but as the “buyer,” wouldn’t I ask for another look-see to see if he’s really what I want? lol. That’s what a buyer would do in the house analogy, right???

  179.  #179Laughing goddess on August 9, 2010 at 4:44 pm

    Yay Dorothea!!! I feel so good reading your posts and hearing that LI is offering you so much love and support!


  180.  #180Renee on August 9, 2010 at 4:50 pm

    Lucy — wow, what an awful experience to have to live through. That must have been quite a learning experience.

    Amber — the comments from Erika triggered me as well…I understand that the ideal ‘real man’ is different for all of us and I refuse to believe there are no ‘real men’ doing online dating…I’m certainly a ‘real woman’ and I’m doing it — I think once you get to a certain age, the pool narrows so steeply that you need to blow out your parachute as widely as possible to catch the tastiest fish, lol.

    I ended up writing back to the doctor, “Depending on how the illness progresses, I foresee the possible need for some mouth-to-mouth at the end of the evening…is there an additional charge for that?” to which he replied, “I was raised not to do mouth-to-mouth on the first housecall, lol”.

    At which point, I wanted to change the dynamic back to his chasing me, so I wrote, “Well, far be it from me to go against the values the good dr was raised with. I’m actually starting to feel much better.” I got the reponse I wanted, which was, “Oh no you don’t, you’re very, very sick and only a dr’s care is going to cure you”. I was sooooo tempted to ask when, but really didn’t want to lean forward at all, so we just went back and forth a bit about needing references and his asking if I thought maybe a phone interview would be appropriate.

    So at this point, I think he’s either going to call me tonight or sometime soon…

  181.  #181Lucy on August 9, 2010 at 4:52 pm

    It felt really really good talking on the phone with Tattoo Man today — I took the phone outside and walked under the willow and beside the row of blossoming rose of sharon — and it felt GOOD — and we laughed — and he talked about his own dating woes — and he teased me (in a kind way) about my silliness and insecurity and overthinking — and he has an awesome, deep, masculine voice, and is a very cool guy — and he talked to me with affection in his words and voice — and I felt loved and cared for and appreciated for being me …… His phone call was a Gift. A surprise gift. A beautiful, manly gift for my beautiful feminine self. Thank you God.

  182.  #182Erika Awakening on August 9, 2010 at 4:59 pm

    On way home from doctor now …

    Lol, Lucy 🙂

    @Im, yeah I used to read that marketing material and think, ‘oh if only I were more this or more that then these guys would be acting different toward me.’ it wasn’t until I became a coach that I really became objective. It required me seeing lots of guys I wasn’t in a dating situation with to see that no amount of being a feminine goddess was going to make a difference with most guys. They just aren’t there yet skill wise. Perfectly wonderful people but a total waste of time to beat yourself up about it when he doesn’t get the job done.

  183.  #183Erika Awakening on August 9, 2010 at 5:04 pm

    Total waste of time to think that if you are feminine enough a specific guy is suddenly going to get the job done.

    Absolutely NOT a waste of time to focus on becoming your best, happiest, most feminine self and have faith that higher quality guys will start showing up … And that very much in line w Rori’s teachings

  184.  #184Jennifer on August 9, 2010 at 5:22 pm

    I was talking to money friend about not getting much action in online dating…she says I need to be more playful….
    I don’t really do playful.
    It’s hard for me to relax enough for playful.
    Therapists have told me that the children of alchoholics have a hard time playing because they have had thier childhoods repressed by having to be so responsible, especially the oldest, especially females.
    I don’t want that…
    I don’t want to be doomed to no playfulness.
    I want to play
    I don’t know how to play with men.
    I want to learn

  185.  #185Jennifer on August 9, 2010 at 5:25 pm

    I feel crying.
    I feel annoyed buy being affected by things that happened so long ago.
    I think I have a bladder infection…and I didn’t eat that much today…so that’s prolly not helping.
    I want to feed me a salad.

  186.  #186Erika Awakening on August 9, 2010 at 5:49 pm

    Amber and Renee,

    I appreciate you sharing that you were triggered by my comments. I am a very passionate person, and I tend to speak very passionately … so I’d like to clarify that I’m not saying my way is for everyone or that your way is wrong.

    I do consider myself to be in the process of perfecting the art of being a Diva, and I have vast, vast experience that I enjoy sharing here sometimes.

    Dorothea, you said:

    “Erika, I feel confused. I never saw sinking totally into feeling messages here (or anywhere) as the equivalent of letting an event or trigger have power over me. I see it as a way out of letting something have power over me.”

    Yeah … sometimes I feel frustrated reading on here what feels to me like some people being mired and stuck in the negative feelings. There are some situations where sharing a negative feeling message with a man, IMO, is not the right thing to do.

    One thing I’ve been prescribing to my male clients that works just as well for women is to acknowledge the negative, and then immediately follow it with the mantra, “and I choose to be powerful anyway.”

    It is a conscious choice, to be powerful. And sometimes getting mired in negative feelings works against that conscious choice, IMO. (I hate to find myself agreeing with my ex about this point btw, I feel annoyed that he may have been right lol 😉 )

    I also feel frustrated sometimes reading here the micro-attention to every detail of what a man says and does, giving it meaning that, from my perspective it doesn’t have, and knowing that micro-focus is counterproductive to results. I’m not sharing my experiences to say, “I’m right.” I’m sharing experiences to say, wow, we are perfecting the art form of being a Diva here, and based on my own dating and coaching experiences, I invite you to consider the possibility that you can be a lot happier and a lot more successful with men a lot faster if you DON’T do some of the things I see being done here.

    That’s just my perspective. I hope it’s helpful, but if it’s not, I won’t be offended if you disagree 🙂

    – Erika

  187.  #187dorothea on August 9, 2010 at 6:42 pm

    Erika, you said “There are some situations where sharing a negative feeling message with a man, IMO, is not the right thing to do.”

    something just clicked for me. it’s that sometimes when we share a negative feeling message with a man, we are giving HIM all the power to make it better – to respond appropriately or in a way that makes us feel good. And if he doesn’t, we feel sh*tty.

    i realize just now that I do this. that i am using negative feeling messages to this end at times.

    then there are times when I share a negative feeling message to be open and vulnerable, and even ask him if he thinks there’s something we can do about it TOGETHER. this has a whole different feel of me taking care of myself and inviting him to join me in wanting me to feel good.

  188.  #188Lizzie on August 9, 2010 at 8:07 pm

    Erica – are you a scorpio by chance? Gee all I want is to feel desired by a man. Wanted. I want to feel his wanting energy as soon as he walks into the room and sees me there. I want him to walk up behind me as I do the dishes, and breathe hot breath down the back of my neck. I don’t want any words, I just want to feel him wanting me. That is the all scorpio part of me. How the he!! did I ever marry a gay guy!

  189.  #189Jacqueline on August 9, 2010 at 8:18 pm

    @ Erika! I second that emotion – in my experience if you post and it’s different from whateveryone else is posting about – which IS micro analyzing….lol….you just get ignored/shut out. No matter how many times I see we’re all sirens, etc. it feels cliquish and exclusionary when you ask a question about a program – like why the focus on feminine energy, is it for us or for them?….and no one replies.

    And it doesn’t feel hopeful. I refuse to be daunted by that, I want this board to be for all who post to feel empowered welcomed and partnered with, and that’s why I keep posting. I like a LOT of what you say – and will absolutely say your comments and opinions are valid, and insightful and come from someone who is not just talking the talk but is walking the walk. Good for you with the blogging and coaching.

    Now we’ve broken feeling messages down into negative and positve?! We are all negative at times, and hey, if you express that and someone steps up and fixes what they can for you – how can that be bad? It’s almost like leaning back, actually. There are times you will feel Sh**** no matter what – like in the premise of this blog if he says, ummm, no, I’m going to date around too. Just because you may or do or might have a feeling is not a reason not to have an action.

    To quote Rory, put em on the back of your horse and get on with living!

    Erika, I invite you to share some happy living stories from you work, btw!

    Actually, I extend that invitation to us all!

  190.  #190Jacqueline on August 9, 2010 at 8:21 pm

    Hey, Lizzie…haven’t seen your name in awhile – oh, yeah, I love the suds hug!! I am a scorpio moon – and everyone always thinks I am a scorpio – intense desires, yes?! That was the BEST feeling message I’ve heard in a while….came through loud and clear! smiling…..

    Take care!

  191.  #191Lizzie on August 9, 2010 at 8:24 pm

    Sirens, I am feeling anxiety. My lady bits are still swollen and sore. I will go back to the doctor tomorrow. They are getting better but I am so filled now with anxiety and major negative videos are playing in my head – did Family Guy give me an STD???!!! Like this is serious!!! Although I do quite reasonably think I have a case of alergy hives on my lady bits, I have read every imaginable article about genital herpes I can find, examined every picture, magnified myself 100X to see if there is any resemblance at all. Now I am imagining having to call him up and say, hmm, we need to talk – did you give me a f-ing disease???!!!! you jerk!!! Augh!!! I so hate this. I don’t think I have herpes, I pray to any god of earth that I don’t have herpes, I promice to NEVER act without a condom again in my whole entire life – just please don’t let it be herpes, ugh! I hate this. I think I damanged myself when I had the reaction I trotted off to get stuff for yeast. Only a few days later did I find out that if you treat yourself for yeast and you don’t have yeast, you could be burning yourself. Well hello! that is what I did – sure enough I have hives. Like prickly heat rash, like hives, all among the delicate folds of my lady bits. How to end a hopeful imaginary relationship with a great guy – call him up and say – hey we need to have a little chat – did you give me a disease!!!????? ugh. I hate this. I am going back to the doc tomorrow afternoon. So now I am scared now.

  192.  #192Brenda on August 9, 2010 at 8:30 pm

    Hi Tinque, RE: #170 – Yes, I agree. You are right. It has to do with respect. Yet I have found that most men think sex is another way of saying woman. It seems most men don’t know how to relate to a woman as a human being. Or maybe I’ve just been around scum too much. I have a pretty low opinion of most men.

    For example, my Mom always said if I dressed with a low cut shirt, short shorts, etc, I was just asking to be raped. She said that’s the message you send.

    I’m a mixed up puppy in some areas, even tho I’m growing. And, this is one of those areas. I think I just got a glimmer of clarity thru what you said. It’s not what I say or don’t say, or how I dress necessarily. It’s the caliber of the man. If he respects me, he won’t violate my boundaries. Cool. Thanks!

  193.  #193Lizzie on August 9, 2010 at 8:36 pm

    Thanks Jacqueline – I so love some parts of being scorpio – intese desires! I do scare myself with the incredible depth and intensity of my feelings sometimes.

    Jennifer are you here? I saw your post about being a child of acoholic parents – I am as well. When I adopted my kids, all my own abandonment issues came rushing to the fore. I had to begin to work on these as part of the process to help my kids connect with me. Sadly it is a lifelong journey. I hope you understand that I understand from where you come from. All I can do to be of some assistance is to encourage you to build connections one step at a time. I am a terrible workaholic and fry myself. In my head, I think I am more attentive to what is going on in my body – but I have to be on fire with a serious problem before I realize there are actual flames on my skin! This is not funny!!! In the end, I am sure the latex reaction I had turned into flaming lips purely because I was in complete unawareness and didn’t look after it properly to begin with, which landed me imobilized for 3 days! Like how dumb is that??? little miss totally be responsible – grrrrr. Anyway my friend. One step at a time. Since I had to teach my kids about play and joy, I shall share a bunch of things you can do – would you like that???

  194.  #194dorothea on August 9, 2010 at 8:41 pm

    I think that some of us are finding ourselves all dealing with some fairly intense and deep issues that have come up now as a result of being in touch with our feelings and feminine energy. I feel utterly confident that we are all gonna come up from it all essentially reborn. Others are just doing a less intense tweaking of the way they approach dating and relationships. Either is directly connected to having the relationship you want and Rori’s tools, so I hope that no matter where any siren is along the aforementioned continuum, we will all feel comfortable freely posting from an honest place about what we are experiencing in our lives whether it’s positive or negative.

    Sorry you feel shunned when you ask your questions, Jacqueline. I have seen most of Rori’s programs so if you ever have a question, we might be able to figure it out together. Just let us know.


  195.  #195Erika Awakening on August 9, 2010 at 8:43 pm

    Lizzie, nah, I’m a Pisces … and I know there are masculine energy women in the world who are happy that way … but this whole seduction community arose when a group of guys discovered that almost universally women responded to certain attraction triggers … and those triggers are what I’m describing … being desired, being treated as a woman, being ravished, being around dominant, masculine men. Many women would never admit this if asked about it openly, but those seduction guys are able to get consistent results … so … 😉

    Jacqueline, you said:

    “when you ask a question about a program – like why the focus on feminine energy, is it for us or for them?….and no one replies.”

    Would you be willing to clarify your question more? I don’t think I heard it before …

  196.  #196Lizzie on August 9, 2010 at 8:50 pm

    Lizzie’s list of how to practice finding joy in 5 minute bits (because I die of guilt with anything longer):

    – find a baby and hold it, play with it, smile and feel the sheer joy of a completely trusting life
    – go get yourself “Burt Bees Extra Energizing Citrus and Ginger Root Body Wash” – actually that shouldn’t be on the list because once you experience that your shower will be the entire hot water tank – so scratch that off the 5-minute list
    – after it rains, put on your oldest pair of running shoes and go jump from one puddle to another, splash as much mud as you can; borrow a kid to do this with you
    – go for a skinny dip at midnight with a friend and just giggle
    – find a kid, ask the kid to bring tonka trucks and go build a sand castle – ok that can’t be on the list either because it is so much fun you will spend the afternoon
    – at a corn roast, go get a green tree branch and roast marshmallows
    – sing kum-by-ya – I have no idea what the word are, but that doesn’t really matter
    – make chocolate chip cookies – if you don’t have an awesome recipe just say so and I am sure the sirens will post
    – better yet, make date squares!!! OMG totally luscious
    – give someone a real hug – not a 10 second crappy thing, a real-arms-around-them-you-can-feel-the-heart-beat hug
    – sit at your friends place, ask them to tell you how they REALLY are. Lean back, smile gently, and let them talk for 20 minutes and you just admire how wonderful they are the whole time – OK this one doesn’t count either it goes past the 5 minute experience

    how am I doing so far?

  197.  #197Brenda on August 9, 2010 at 8:51 pm


    I don’t think I or anyone has intentionally ignored you, and I feel bad you feel that way. I have found this site sucks up a lot of my time, and I like being here, but I am neglecting other responsibilities… like my job! I really think if we could all afford to be here 8-10 hours a day, we would, and a lot more of us would be answered. But I think reality is we really just have time to read here and there and write here and there. I feel guilty for how much time I spent here today, altho I really enjoyed it.

    I just want to clarify that a lot of times when I write, I am not trying to act like an authority. I am a learner, and I find when I write stuff I’ve learned from Rori and from life, it reinforces it to me. I also enjoy feedback and the exchange of ideas. So really a lot of my writing is a learning tool.

  198.  #198lm on August 9, 2010 at 8:57 pm

    lizzie –

    “- sit at your friends place, ask them to tell you how they REALLY are. Lean back, smile gently, and let them talk for 20 minutes and you just admire how wonderful they are the whole time”

    love this. a great way to open your heart to another and to listen at level 2.

  199.  #199Lizzie on August 9, 2010 at 8:59 pm

    Erica is pisces – still water runs very very deep.

    I love men and want them to be strong – stronger than me. I want a man to lust after me so much that he just pulls me into his cave. I want to be claimed. I want to feel that masculine energy wrap around my feminine self, I want to feel my masculine do energy being tucked away so that I am all woman.
    I want to feel so wanted, so safe that I surender and open my heart to let him into experience the depth of my passion so that my passion feeds him and inspires his life.

    OK I must go to bed now, I am so anxious over my special parts…

  200.  #200Brenda on August 9, 2010 at 9:00 pm

    Erika Awakening, I have really enjoyed your posts on here today! Thank you! I want to comment on how we micro-analyze everything a man does.

    I will speak for myself. Even tho I am 46, in some ways, it is like I am 16, or 26. I had a lot of voids in social interactions in the past and spent a lot of time isolated, both in childhood and adulthood, for a number of reasons. I am still exploring this mysterious creature we call a man, much as I would micro-observe an eagle I saw for the first time. A lot of things a man does and says that may be second nature to you are novel for me.

    Now that I am using Rori’s tools, I am finding depths with a man to which I have never gone, so I have even more to observe. So I feel good about Rori’s comment that she has broken it into baby steps. I hope no one is offended by this, but I have observed that a lot of us come from emotional abuse relationships. We need healing. We need to know what a positive relationship feels like. So I have a lot to observe and break down.

    For example, when my gym teacher taught me how to push off the side of the pool and swan dive to the bottom, she broke it into tiny steps for me. Push off, bend at the waist, blow out my nose, pull my arms from my sides to my head, keep my legs straight and toes together, and then swim downward.

    It sounds choppy and simplistic. But after some practice, I could put all those movements together and look very graceful flipping my legs out of the water to swan dive!

    I feel happy thinking about how a confident, skilled woman looks in relationship. And, I think your man is scum for cancelling your trip! I am amazed at your attitude. I like that: I choose to be powerful!

  201.  #201Brenda on August 9, 2010 at 9:01 pm


    I’m sorry to hear your pain and discomfort continue. I bet it was the yeast medication on broken skin. Hang in there.

    I love your list of how to play and have fun!

  202.  #202Erika Awakening on August 9, 2010 at 9:04 pm

    Lol, you wouldn’t think he was scum if you knew that after that he continued contacting me every day, and that right now we are having a very amazing conversation about how non-physical our connection was and how much we both want the emotional connection there totally solid before having sex …

    I have no idea what will happen with this man, but I know beyond any shadow of a doubt that he loves and honors me …

    And that is why micro-analyzing movements doesn’t work … it misses entirely the emotional content of what is going on with a man …

    tho I do hear you and Rori about baby steps …

  203.  #203Brenda on August 9, 2010 at 9:06 pm

    Erika, I’m sorry if I offended you about calling him scum. I would feel soooo hurt if a man did that. I am glad it is going better. I had the impression that just happened today.

    You’re awesome!

  204.  #204Erika Awakening on August 9, 2010 at 9:09 pm

    Lol … I’m not offended. Just clarifying. That happened a few weeks ago, and he was beating himself up about it, so I told him to stop fussing, I was already over it.

    In fact, what I told him is that his canceling told me all I needed to know about him, he clearly wasn’t the One.

    Lol. He was dumbfounded. 🙂

  205.  #205Brenda on August 9, 2010 at 9:10 pm

    Erika, I guess I am learning the emo content of a man THRU observing his actions and words. But then again, I’ve become a pretty good people reader, and sometimes that will freak a man out, and I love it! LOL! I guess that’s one of the benefits of writing to men in prison for 21 years!

  206.  #206Erika Awakening on August 9, 2010 at 9:12 pm

    I told him that God chose one man for me, and there is absolutely nothing I can do to mess it up, so if he wasn’t coming, that made it very easy on me. He simply wasn’t the One. Case closed.

    Lol, well, after that we decided repeatedly that it was “over” and we should “just be friends.”

    Trouble was … he couldn’t seem to stop contacting me …

    So in case it’s not obvious the power of developing a sense of humor about all this, I really want to emphasize how powerful it really is, NOT TO TAKE ALL THIS STUFF SO DAMN SERIOUSLY.


  207.  #207Brenda on August 9, 2010 at 9:15 pm

    Erika, that is awesome! Totally powerful!!!!

  208.  #208Brenda on August 9, 2010 at 9:18 pm

    I am going to take that to heart about not taking it so seriously. That’s a challenge…it will take some processing. My tendency is to get sarcastic with my ex as a means of not taking it seriously. And, I know that sarcasm is the ugly cousin of anger. 🙁

  209.  #209Brenda on August 9, 2010 at 9:26 pm

    Erika, I love it that you believe, as I do, that God has One man for you! I want to draw your attention to Derek Prince wrote a book, “God is a Matchmaker”, and he describes (it’s on an audio program on his website) how God led him to his first wife. They were so compatible, despite about a 25 year age difference! Then after she passed away, God led him to his second wife!

  210.  #210Jeannette on August 9, 2010 at 9:26 pm

    Just an update….My current relationship seems to be intensifing, the one man with little money and health issues. He tells me he is deeply in love with me and I mean the world to him….He talks of marriage and wanting a future. I am nervous, I love him too, however, I am taking on so much here….We are dating after not seeing ea other for thirty some years. We were 17 and in love and we found ea other again. It’s incredible because I really do love him after all these years but I know I am in for some difficult times if I stay with him. He is even up for some heart surgery….this has got to be love, otherwise I would have never considered it..

  211.  #211Brenda on August 9, 2010 at 9:37 pm

    “If Love were a choice, then who would choose such an exquisite pain?” ~”Anna and the King”

  212.  #212Erika Awakening on August 9, 2010 at 9:44 pm

    Thank you, Brenda. Yeah, I have a huge amount of faith in intuition, which to me is my direct connection to God.

    Last night he asked me all kinds of questions about what I like and don’t like, the kind of questions a man asks when he’s deciding whether a woman is his future wife … and when I laughed about it teasingly, he said “What? Not afraid of expressing what I want. Trying to learn about you.”

    I said. “I know. I like it. It’s hot :)”

    All because I chose NOT to take his cancellation as a rejection… because it WASN’T.

    Ladies, a Diva rarely needs to say “I feel hurt” to a man … I’m not saying never … but as someone said earlier on this thread, you are not “hurt” or “neglected” by something he did, you are hurt or neglected by your INTERPRETATION of what he did …

    And YOU have the power to change your interpretation. Nobody, and I mean nobody, can take that power away from you. That’s where all of a Diva’s power lies, and as your interpretations (beliefs) change, your entire life will change.

  213.  #213janjune on August 9, 2010 at 9:51 pm

    Yes, Erika, really really enjoying your comments and everyone else’s. it’s so fun to be growing and know we can come out of the confusion, all in our very own personal way using Rori’s Tools.

    Erika, what you said (I started reading the blog at about #160) is striking a major chord.
    The way I’m interpreting your comments are:
    1. that at some point we realize (like Rori says) that it’s not even ABOUT the other person it’s about us taking responsibility to take care of ourselves within the context of relationships.
    2. that if he’s not stepping up, then make it simple for both people and just acknowledge the fact that he’s not the one. no put down there, just the fact.
    3. practicing rori’s Tools begins to become so natural that you don’t have to CD to practice them. Men respond to them everywhere. MEN respond to them. I practice the Tools just in my daily life now without even thinking about it most of the time.

    I’m not saying these were the points you were trying to make Erika, it’s just the way I’m interpreting what you said into my own life.

  214.  #214Jacqueline on August 9, 2010 at 9:52 pm

    Hi! I’d asked a couple of days ago why the focus on us bringing out our feminine energy – it lures a man in, or it helps us in our femaleness? Or you can just choose your energy – you just have to have one of each? I’d seen comments about keeping your hair long, lightening it, etc. and wanted to hear more about the energectic distinction and how it applied/helped in relating. And to hear the list of things to do – besides the bracelet which I’ve done for years! and more of the “how” and “why” to it.

    I’m not sulking tho- we’re all on here with our own stories and needs. I am however pointing out that we need a mentoring progrom sort of….one where no one feels dropped out of the convo – like rainy and several new posters this weekend – Hi, Jeannette, in that regard! Wow, what a great, cool story, and yes, I’d be nervous too, but good nervous – and I’d be very much aware of MY needs at a time like this, too – making sure they could be met!

    And Lizzie – it’s okay!!! IF you had herpes you’d not be swollen you’d be having blisters popping open hurting like fire – I know I”d be freaking out, too, but doesnt’ sound like how I’ve heard it described at ALL. So, get your rest.

    Brenda, thanks for checking on me, I know you are a great friend to everyone here; it’s just that sometimes some of us are going to come from totally different places than where you are, and to me, we’ve all gotta be okay with that. For example, even tho I studied theology in college, I know my beliefs about God are not nearly as literal as yours….and I’d trust the Universe to bring me my desires quicker than I would name this force “God.” Not that I don’t believe in God, but my God is way different from yours…..and sometimes I feel like if I say that that is not how it is take it at all….I just get shut down.Not by you, but just not heard in the moment’s discussion. I love to hear what you have to say about RR and I’m happy for you at your growth, all at the same time.

    That’s what I’m saying. We’re here to bring hope and support and be a force of empowerment and a safe space, yes?

    So all of us can speak our feelings or show that we have less inhibitions or whatever, and still be okay here, and people with nuts and bolts questions can get answers. What do you all think?

    Thanks for listening,


  215.  #215Jeannette on August 9, 2010 at 9:56 pm

    Brenda, you say some pretty profound things…but it’s true…love can be an exquisite pain…my grown daughter is even acting turned off that I would allow myself to love someone with so many problems…that hurts just as much as anything…

  216.  #216janjune on August 9, 2010 at 10:07 pm

    I agree.
    On this blog in the past it did feel like sometimes the only time someone commented was to tell you you triggered them!!
    I guess somewhere inside of me i knew that was part of the process of healing… for me anyway.
    …that feeling of having something so important in your life and no one to “hear” you or take you seriously, etc.

    but the blog did it’s work for me in the process of change, it’s such a safe artificial social environment at first, but really did become the ground for forcing changes I wanted to make OUT into the open so I could feel comfortable with them before taking them out into my “real” world.

    I feel love for all the Goddesses who share their lives here.

  217.  #217janjune on August 9, 2010 at 10:19 pm

    hi ,
    i hope one of the goddesses answers your questions. they are very good ones. however, if no one does, I hope you don’t feel bad about it because some of these questions nobody really *can* answer for us… because we’re all living such different circumstances.

    But just to try to answer in a general way, according to my own life and understanding…

    we focus on feminine energy because that’s what we want
    and it does lure men
    and it does help us
    but i do it because that’s who i am
    andtherefore how i chose to express myself.

    our culture is very anti-feminine at times forcing women into “doing” roles all the time without giving us a choice.

    rori is saying we have a choice.
    we can chose the masculine role in relationships if we want.
    nothing wrong with that.
    but if we long to express our femininity in a realtionship with a man, here’s how it worked for her…. and she’s sharing it now with us.

    well, i’ll stop now. Just my ideas…at this point in time anyway….
    “I reserve the right to change my mind whenever presented with new information.”

  218.  #218janjune on August 9, 2010 at 10:20 pm

    that was supposed to be
    Hi Jacqueline,

    …time for bed.
    g’night Goddesses

  219.  #219Jacqueline on August 9, 2010 at 10:24 pm

    Janjune-rofl….yep, I reserve too…love it. That was cool, I’ve done both “roles” and they both have their challenges. Of course it is much easier to let someone else row but then sometimes I like to choose my direction! smile….even if no one does – which probably won’t happen – it doesn’t matter. I speak my truth for me because it resonates with me, and I’m looking for a home where that’s not only okay, it’s loved about me. And I’ll find it – if it’s not here, that’s okay as long as I have contributed something.


  220.  #220Jeannette on August 9, 2010 at 10:30 pm

    I know this may not be understood by all but I went up north with my grown children last week-end and my only daughter does not even ask me about my current relationship with Steve….the guy I mentioned above. I can’t explain but it hurts so much when you don’t have your children’s approval. And I would love to talk to her about him….I talk with her about everything..It’s her way of saying she does not approve of what I am doing…

  221.  #221Gigi on August 9, 2010 at 11:49 pm


    That may be the case that your daughter does not “approve” of him. I can so understand how that could feel very hurtful.

    Perhaps though your daughter has trouble seeing the good with Steve because she loves you and her vision is blocked by the potential hard issues with Steve. And, you keep questioning all the potential hard things to go through. If you can see her side, perhaps you will find it easier to approach her with your feelings and have a conversation on common ground. Hugs to you on this!!!

  222.  #222Jeannette on August 10, 2010 at 12:02 am

    I see what you’re saying Gigi. I just wish she would talk with me, I really don’t know how to approach her with it. Know matter how you look at it, she could ask me how everything is going, but just her refusal to do even that blocks our relationship. I can’t believe that she would be that opposed to it. Doesn’t it sound rather cold?

  223.  #223Jeannette on August 10, 2010 at 12:05 am

    I guess that’s a judgment call and I shouldn’t go there.

  224.  #224Gigi on August 10, 2010 at 12:45 am


    The feeling messages that are all Rori would work best here too with your daughter. Approach her with love and openness. Get her on your side by letting her know how you feel about bringing up the subject. Stay in your feelings without accusing, blaming or becoming defensive. Tell her you love her and value her and want to be able to share this part of your life with her. And, use the feeling words as you tell her how you are feeling about her and about the situation with Steve. And, rather than going into analyzing the situation, stay with your feelings. Again…hugs to you with this!

  225.  #225Gigi on August 10, 2010 at 12:57 am


    Perhaps something like:

    I feel awkward bringing this up, but you are so important to me (or I love you so much) and I really want to talk with you about what’s going on with me and Steve. What do you think?

  226.  #226Brenda on August 10, 2010 at 3:27 am

    Jacqueline, RE: #214 – Hello, all in all, it is a safe place here. I have decided for myself to take the love and support I feel here and disregard what few comments are not supportive. That if someone says something unkind, it is their issue, not mine, and they can’t be kind.

    About your question about being more feminine, is it possible that you missed the responses? I know Daria responded to you, and possibly one or two others. I didn’t respond because I haven’t listened to all of Rori’s programs, altho I look forward to when I am able to.

  227.  #227Brenda on August 10, 2010 at 3:31 am

    Jeannette, RE: #215 – Sorry to hear that your daughter is rejecting you. It is a tough choice to bring a person into your life who is less than perfect. Did you (or your daughter) ever hear that classic story about the brother who was paralyzed? His brother carried him and someone said, “Isn’t he heavy?”

    He said, “He’s not heavy. He’s my brother.”

    Of course we can’t take in every single person with hardships in our lives. But this man is someone from your past, who means something to you. I get that. My Mom isn’t heavy either, even tho she’s on oxygen and in a wheelchair and incontinent. She’s my Mother.

  228.  #228Brenda on August 10, 2010 at 3:35 am

    Jeannette, RE: #220 – Did you use feeling messages with your daughter? Let her know how you feel.

  229.  #229Jeannette on August 10, 2010 at 3:49 am

    Gigi and Brenda, you two are goddess’s of love. I have not yet brought this up to my daughter, it just hurts me a lot and I want to get in a better place with my emotions before I talk with her, but I will…Did I tell you my daughter and her husband are pregnant with twins? There first….and I don’t want to upset her so I really have to be careful here. I love everyone involved….Another thing….long story, but my daughter’s in laws, the mother in law is an odd duck….and she is trying to turn my daughter away from me….The kids spend all their time over to their house and little at mine. The mother in law is very possessive and would love nothing more than for my daughter to turn away from me. She calls my daughter, “My girl” and said once the twins are born she is going to be at my daugter’s house all the time. But I want to take the high road here and do the right thing…it’s about my future with my daughter and grandchildren.

  230.  #230Renee on August 10, 2010 at 4:24 am

    Jaqueline — Sorry you feel ignored and unsupported. I’m sure no one intentionally tried to make you feel that way. I know for me, when I first started posting on here a few weeks ago, I didn’t get as much input when I asked questions as I would have liked, but then I realized that I was just posting about me, me, me and if I wanted to receive, I needed to give as well…not saying that’s your approach, just sharing what my experience was. Once I started becoming truly interested in others’ stories and questions, they seemed to become more interested in mine.

    I’m still working on getting in touch with my feminine energy and staying in it around men, so I certainly don’t feel I’m in a position to advise you in that regard…if I have an inspired thought on the topic at some point, though, I’ll definitely post it! Good luck to you and your growth, wherever you currently are in the process:-).

  231.  #231Renee on August 10, 2010 at 4:42 am

    Brenda — There’s something I’ve been meaning to mention to you and I hope you take this as coming from a place of love and support, because that’s where it’s coming from within my heart…you’ve mentioned that when you’ve been applying for jobs and so forth, that you’ve been using feeling messages and I would like to suggest that perhaps the work world is where we are better off using our masculine, “doing” energy as opposed to our feminine energy.

    I used to lead business communication seminars around the country, which focused a great deal on writing, but did delve into communication styles in general, and one of the guidelines we recommended to people was to not use “I feel” in a work-related email/letter, because it makes the message sound less strong. Instead of saying, “I feel we can finish the project by Monday”, we would recommend you say, “I think (or I believe) we can finish the project…”.

    Work is about your doing, thinking, masculine energy and while I can see the benefit of using feeling messages with your interpersonal communications at work, I think, especially when interviewing for a job, that I would avoid using the word “feel”. These tenets were based on research by work psychologists and part of the goal was to teach everyone (but especially women) how to communicate in a work environment in a more clear, assertive way.

    Feeling messages are so soft and feminine that I’m concerned your considerable talents and wonderful attitude won’t be considered as seriously as they would if communicated in a more masculine, business-like way. Apologies in advance if I’ve offended you in away and I’m certainly willing to be wrong about this, but that’s what I was paid to teach.

    I really want you to have all the success in the world that you deserve — you’re such a lovely, giving woman that I wouldn’t want anything to obscure your obvious talents and potential. What do you think?

  232.  #232Lizzie on August 10, 2010 at 5:32 am

    Jeannette – oh the hurt!
    how about:

    sweet daughter, I am feeling the emptiness of your absense. My relationship with you is so important. I am wondering what we might do to feel more connected?

  233.  #233Ankita on August 10, 2010 at 6:30 am

    Hello Sirens

    Just today I saw this post… Had not been able to come around for 2 days…
    thanks a lot rori! For addressing my query….. I am not confused anymore…!!

    Yesterday I met Vishal, and we went to his hostel room, though we had it in mind that we won’t have sex, still we ended up having sex….. It felt ultimate…. Earlier I tried really hard to stop him, also shouted and pushed him back, but when I was convinced that he had by then already inserted his ***** in me for real, i stopped trying to push him away and joined in…
    We know each other from 1 year as friends, It’s just a month and half since we are dating, I hope it doesn’t ruins my chances of having a fully committed relationship with him….. Which is what i want….

    I am trying to ditch the effect oxytocin has on us, and am still trying to stay calm,and not chase him….. And act as cool as we were before… i am trying my level best so that not i might scare him away…..

    But i don’t get one message here…. Just before fucking him, he showed me his pics on laptop which had my ex in one of them…. Why the heck this happened???? I hope I don’t end up with him in the same way it had with my ex.. With my ex, I became masculine, but with V, I’m trying my level best to be calm…. and still think of me as the prize…..

  234.  #234dorothea on August 10, 2010 at 6:54 am

    I use feeling messages in professional capacities all the time. it is a great boost to my work life and relationships. i would definitely never use a “fake” feeling message when it’s actually a thought like “i feel like we can get the report to you by friday.”

    it’s more like this:
    “I can’t set up anything in time for this conference, but would feel very excited to be at your next one. what do you think?”

    “I don’t feel entirely comfortable working with that person because i don’t want to spend more time training and doing damage control than feeling productive. what do you think?”

    “I’d feel good about X dollars” (in salary negotiation, feeling messages have worked wonders for me).

    feeling messages invite colleagues and employers to be on your side, and it also keeps them from being “wrong,” because feeling messages are all about YOU:)

  235.  #235Brenda on August 10, 2010 at 7:29 am

    Renee, RE: #231…thank you for your feedback! I very much appreciate it…I am not offended in the least! Even tho I may not always state it, I am all about growing on this blog, and I welcome constructive feedback at any time. I always want to be in a state of growing and becoming.

  236.  #236Brenda on August 10, 2010 at 7:36 am

    Dorothea and Renee,

    I always have to keep in mind my “default” state, if you will. I came from a family of yellers and criticizers. Since that’s primarily what I was role modelled, I constantly have to remind myself to back off from that and not be TOO into masculine energy at work…or in a relationship. It is what I was taught (by poor example).

    So I am going to do what Renee said, and just be in my masculine, unless it’s a sensitive relational issue at a job. It really is a matter of finding our style. I just know if I don’t censor myself in some fashion, I will come across like this!

    I told you I will finish it at the end of the day! (Yelling)

    Oh, she gets to order any stupid thing she wants and I can’t get an electric hole puncher, even tho I’m punching thousands of pages??? This is ridiculous!

    Quit being so nosy! This desk and everything on it is MY business. Go mind YOUR business!

    I have lost a couple of positions thru petty relational issues in the past. Kenny has coached me a lot how to be soft with people, yet get my point across. So for me, it hasn’t been a matter of learning to speak up, but of learning to tone it down!

  237.  #237Ankita on August 10, 2010 at 7:42 am


    my comment is awaiting moderation….. 🙁

  238.  #238Jennifer on August 10, 2010 at 7:42 am

    Lizzie…that would be wonderful.
    I’m getting a bit of exposure with my nephew…he’s thirteen months old.
    We roll in the grass and play in the pool.
    Next weekend I want to take him to the fair.
    It’s wierd.
    I never did the same things that other people my age did.
    I never dated in highschool.
    I only ever went to one teen dance.
    I worked at the fair when I was a teenager.
    I worked in shipping at my dad’s factory in highschool so I didn’t do alot of the stuff the other kids did on the weekends.
    All my friends where oldest kids…we actually took turns being sober if we went out underaged drinking. How wierd is that?

  239.  #239Ankita on August 10, 2010 at 7:45 am

    Hello Sirens

    Just today I saw this post… Had not been able to come around for 2 days…
    thanks a lot rori! For addressing my query….. I am not confused anymore…!!

    Yesterday I met Vishal, and we went to his hostel room, though we had it in mind that we won’t have sex, still we ended up having sex….. It felt ultimate…. Earlier I tried really hard to stop him, also shouted and pushed him back, but when I was convinced that he had by then already inserted his thing in me for real, i stopped trying to push him away and joined in…
    We know each other from 1 year as friends, It’s just a month and half since we are dating, I hope it doesn’t ruins my chances of having a fully committed relationship with him….. Which is what i want….

    I am trying to ditch the effect oxytocin has on us, and am still trying to stay calm,and not chase him….. And act as cool as we were before… i am trying my level best so that not i might scare him away…..

    But i don’t get one message here…. Just before fucking him, he showed me his pics on laptop which had my ex in one of them…. Why the heck this happened???? I hope I don’t end up with him in the same way it had with my ex.. With my ex, I became masculine, but with V, I’m trying my level best to be calm…. and still think of me as the prize…..

  240.  #240Ankita on August 10, 2010 at 7:46 am

    i had sex with vishal….. and am trying to post the whole story about it here but its not going…… i feel so angry…..

  241.  #241Jennifer on August 10, 2010 at 7:46 am

    I just booked my first vacation in 7 years.
    B used to complain that I worked too much…but he also complained that we never had enough money…but since HE wasn’t interested in getting a second job, I did.
    I also was cleaning out papers at the first of the month, I got a reminder about our financial situation when we moved in.
    We did ok BECAUSE I had two jobs.
    I feel like copying the papwork and mailing it to his office.

  242.  #242Ankita on August 10, 2010 at 7:46 am

    Just today I saw this post… Had not been able to come around for 2 days…
    thanks a lot rori! For addressing my query….. I am not confused anymore…!!

  243.  #243Ankita on August 10, 2010 at 7:47 am

    Yesterday I met Vishal, and we went to his hostel room, though we had it in mind that we won’t have sex, still we ended up having sex….. It felt ultimate…. Earlier I tried really hard to stop him, also shouted and pushed him back, but when I was convinced that he had by then already inserted his thing in me for real, i stopped trying to push him away and joined in…
    We know each other from 1 year as friends, It’s just a month and half since we are dating, I hope it doesn’t ruins my chances of having a fully committed relationship with him….. Which is what i want….

  244.  #244Ankita on August 10, 2010 at 7:47 am

    I am trying to ditch the effect oxytocin has on us, and am still trying to stay calm,and not chase him….. And act as cool as we were before… i am trying my level best so that not i might scare him away…..

  245.  #245Ankita on August 10, 2010 at 7:49 am

    I hope I don’t end up with him in the same way it had with my ex.. With my ex, I became masculine, but with V, I’m trying my level best to be calm…. and still think of me as the prize…..

  246.  #246Ankita on August 10, 2010 at 7:49 am

    But i don’t get one message here…. Just before we were about to have sex, he showed me his pics on laptop which had my ex in one of them…. Why the heck this happened???? I hope I don’t end up with him in the same way

  247.  #247Ankita on August 10, 2010 at 7:51 am

    3 of my posts are awaiting moderation…
    but, phew, i somehow managed to post the whole story, in parts…

  248.  #248Ankita on August 10, 2010 at 7:54 am

    uhhhh….. it felt ultimate to have sex with him…… but i don’t know what should i do right now….????

    should i pat myself on my back to allow myself to experience such a heavenly pleasure, or should i beat myself up for doing it in 1 and a half month…???

  249.  #249dorothea on August 10, 2010 at 8:06 am

    Ankita, there are no rules. 1.5 months isn’t like lightning speed fast or anything.

  250.  #250Brenda on August 10, 2010 at 8:07 am

    Jennifer, RE: #237 – I really relate to what you said about not doing normal teen activities. My first date was at age 16, and I wasn’t at all attracted to the man. My second date was at age 19 in college, and I totally flubbed it up with nervousness and being way underdressed. I tripped going into the dorm elevator at the end of the night. Of course he never asked me again.

    I had no idea how to get with the group in high school. My social skills were so backward.

    I remember later I worked at a drug and alcohol rehab with adolescent girls. I went with a 14 year old to a craft store to get craft supplies for everyone. She sat down with her legs parted like a 3 year old in the middle of the aisle and started playing at the store! I commented on how cute she looked sitting there. She said, “I never got to play like this! My family could never afford good toys! I am making up for lost time!”

    BTW, Lizzie already wrote you a play list above…


  251.  #251Brenda on August 10, 2010 at 8:09 am

    Ankita, sometimes it will go into “moderation” when you use “bad” language. Sometimes we get around it by putting in an asterisk, like “sh*t!” 🙂

  252.  #252Lizzie on August 10, 2010 at 8:10 am

    Jennifer – did you see the beginning of my list for you #196
    I am so messed up on the various topic lists….
    It was 20 years for me on the vacation…that whole responsibility nonsense. geeez!

    Here is something to do, that works with Rori ways – when you are heading out to enjoy something, stop for a moment and check-in with your feelings. I find that the first blush is tremendous anxiety – the message is – and this is me screaming at me “what do you think you are doing! you can’t do this! what makes you think you deserve to do….fill in the blank” OMG I am triggering myself here – I can feel tears welling up. OMG. sorry….

    OK next, do a pilates breath deep within – or maybe 3 – geez the tears are still back there – and all I did was write this down….man alive

    OK next, let the feeling move through you

    Next, replace the script – Yes I and a wonderful feeling person and enjoying the special moments in life is what living is all about. It is time for me to live. By living I get to get and give wonderful energy. It is wonderful to play. Play replenishes me. When I am replenished I can give nicely to others. When I feel good, others feel good. This is all good.

    How are we doing so far?

    Ankita – sink into the wonderfulness of great sex. Feel your womanliness. Awesome. And as painful as it might seem back-off V and let him come forward.

  253.  #253Brenda on August 10, 2010 at 8:14 am


    No matter what you do, don’t beat yourself up for it. Give compassion and love to your weak parts.

    I am just extremely concerned that he FORCED himself on you, after you said NO!!!!

    I feel alarmed! I feel protective! I want to tell you all the bad experiences I had with men so you don’t fall into the same traps I did! I don’t want you to get hurt! How is that not raping you? Just because you gave into your desire after he forced you??

    Do you want to spend your life with a man who doesn’t respect and honor your wishes? I have had men do that to me so many times in the past! I had such low self-esteem that I just let it happen.

    What if you get pregnant? What if you get a sexually transmitted disease?

    Check out what Erika Awakening said earlier on this blog thread…really empowering stuff!

    I love you, Ankita! Not trying to reprimand you…I just feel protective of you.

    Much Love,

  254.  #254Lizzie on August 10, 2010 at 8:17 am

    Ugh! I am going to the doctor this afteroon to get my lady parts looked after – finally the swelling is going down – I am having anxiety attacks…I still think it looks like hives – like nettle stings…if it is a disease I shall freak!! but it doesn’t look like herpes from what I have seen….ugh! I am feeling such outrageous anxiety….fear running through me so much I have pain in my feet! Who has pain in their feet??? OH for crying out loud….

  255.  #255Brenda on August 10, 2010 at 8:18 am


    My greater concern isn’t the fact that you had sex with Vishal. It is that HE FORCED YOU. You have been saying no, no, no, no, no, at every turn. You have expressed to us that you want to do it differently this time.

    My #1 issue is that he disrespected and dishonored you.


  256.  #256Lizzie on August 10, 2010 at 8:19 am

    Indeed, no means no. NO MATTER WHAT!

  257.  #257Brenda on August 10, 2010 at 8:20 am


    Let the pain and fear float away on silent streams.

    Everything will be all right. It is just from the yeast medication irritating raw skin. It is very sensitive skin. Just speak life and health into your lady bits. You are going to be fine. Maybe some vagisil would comfort it? Tends to deaden nerve endings.

    Praying for you!

  258.  #258AmberS on August 10, 2010 at 8:21 am

    Hello Lovely Sirens!

    There is so much going on here- I’m trying to catch up on everything that happened after I went to bed.

    My boss is prone to popping into my office to have my full & undivided attention, so I can’t keep this window open long enough to get the flow.

    Brenda- I love your masculine style of communicating. I can totally hear you saying those things in my head, and although they make me laugh, they also make it so much more impressive how far you’ve come with being in your feminine.

    Ankita- Thank you for posting your story. You sound like you have so many feelings right now! It’s exciting and scary and all kinds of everything. I’m happy that you’re able to let yourself feel all of this. I love that you’re posting here about it. It’s a great place to work through and express yourself so that when you are with him you have already done this part. Six weeks. Meh. What would matter to me is if I was ready and wanted to. And if he respected my wishes.


  259.  #259dorothea on August 10, 2010 at 8:21 am

    lizzie, i’m sorry to hear about your discomfort. ack i know the feeling. the bath with olive oil and tea trea oil fixed me. doctors made it worse:(

  260.  #260Ankita on August 10, 2010 at 8:25 am


    i do understand you are being protective of me….
    But i feel unclear about what to do next…
    Am thinking to say this to him, “I felt great when we had sex, but i felt bad that you had sex with me when I said no, initially. It made me feel really bad.”

    What do you all think? Am pretty confused….

  261.  #261Ankita on August 10, 2010 at 8:27 am


    I hope you get well soon…. I am also gonna pray for you…!!

  262.  #262Lucy on August 10, 2010 at 8:28 am

    Follow-up on garden guy —

    I had texted him briefly awhile ago, in response to his text, saying, “yes, I would feel interested in seeing you again.”

    (even tho I had serious doubts b/c of his past cheating.)

    Then I didn’t hear from him!

    Today I got this email:

    Hi Lucy,

    I hope this finds you well! Well, I have some news; I have recently met someone, and the two of us have decided to date one another exclusively. I also feel that you and I are at very different places right now and that it wouldn’t work between us. I appreciated our time together.

    If you want to continue communication with me strictly as friends please email me at ……

    I wish you the best and take care,



    I have mixed feelings about this. Mostly relief. The other feeling that comes up in me is fear, coming from the thought: “What if I get a note like this from WH? I will feel devastated!”

  263.  #263Lizzie on August 10, 2010 at 8:31 am

    thanks dorothea – the olive oil and tea tree oil has made a difference – 2 baths a day and Vasigil smoothes it all out so that I can walk. The swelling has gone down considerably and the hive spots have shrunk. I just now need to be sure I didn’t pick up a disease. Although the reaction began within about 10 minutes of my physical exam and then I did damage to myself…*t the things we do to ourselves……

  264.  #264Brenda on August 10, 2010 at 8:33 am

    Ankita, I think that is a good feeling message. I would wait a bit and get some more feedback from more women. I am not all that advanced in this and I don’t always trust my judgment.

    But I so love what Erika Awakening said yesterday!!! She is another relationship coach. She was telling us how her man cancelled his flight to fly to her state to see her after she said they were not going to have sex.

    She said, “God chose one man for me, and there is absolutely nothing I can do to mess it up, so if you aren’t coming, that makes it very easy on me. You simply aren’t the One. Case closed.”

    He called her the next day! And the next day! And now he is wild about her and asking questions about what her preferences are, questions leading up to marriage.

    Erika also said, “I don’t want to have uncommitted sex. And I don’t want to be committed to any man unless it’s permanent. I want you forever or not at all.”

    April Showers suggested these no sex feeling messages: “I feel really attracted to you, but I don’t feel like I know you well enough to have sex.
    I don’t feel ready for sex with you.
    I feel pressured.
    I feel turned off when a guy rushes sex.
    I feel uncomfortable having sex outside of a committed relationship.”

    Ankita, how do you feel about all this?


  265.  #265Erika Awakening on August 10, 2010 at 8:35 am


    #214. When I teach men (and you all will be able to see my speech this year for the 21 Convention next month when it comes out on their website on video), I teach them about their “vibe.” By this I mean the “instant download” women pick up from them, which is really an intuitive taking in of everything that man is. His vibe is created by his belief system. We women have gut reactions to men based on his vibe.

    A masculine, dominant man who believes in himself will attract women without doing anything at all because women are drawn to that vibe like crazy.

    Likewise, a woman can change her vibe. The more feminine a woman becomes, the more that masculine, dominant man is going to be able to feel and sense that and will come to her, even if he’s already being chased by lots of masculine energy women.

    I teach both men AND women not to worry about “what to say” and “what to do” because when your vibe gets cleaned up, and you are firmly grounded in your feminine or masculine polarity, what to say and what to do will come naturally and organically without having to think about it.

    And all this thinking is what’s getting in the way of real connection, which mostly is SILENT and NON-VERBAL.

    Make sense? Ok, I’m going to sign off this thread for now because it’s getting a bit too much time! 😉 You all know where to find me, and I’m sure I’ll pop in here from time to time.

    Thanks, Rori, as always for your hospitality. 🙂

  266.  #266Brenda on August 10, 2010 at 8:35 am


    When I got my first yeast infection in my teens, I did the logical thing: I put antibiotic ointment on it! Owwww! It hurt so bad! I went to a doctor and she got me on a yeast infection treatment. But it really dried the skin out and hurt like crazy for a few days!

  267.  #267Ankita on August 10, 2010 at 8:35 am

    Confused….. 🙁
    Right now Vishal is on gtalk and am also there, but am not sending him any hi, hello…
    Feel like sending him, but am trying to lean back….

  268.  #268Brenda on August 10, 2010 at 8:38 am


    That feels really positive and kind to me from Garden Guy! Instead of stressful feelings, can you gently replace them with, “Oh, I feel so happy! I don’t need to think about Garden Guy and his past issues! Now I have met a wonderful Winker Hottie who will be contacting me any day!”?

    Just keep gently pushing away the negative voices, okay? We need to build up inner strength and confidence! Erika Awakening is a huge role model to me in this area!

  269.  #269Erika Awakening on August 10, 2010 at 8:38 am

    p.s. “vibe cleaned up” means getting rid of baggage like old trauma memories, judgments of self and others, limiting beliefs, and anything else in the way of pure connection … I have a whole system for cleaning it up … once it’s cleaned up, adding masculine or feminine is just a flavoring, really, something to play with 🙂

  270.  #270Lizzie on August 10, 2010 at 8:38 am

    Lucy, that is actually a really kind note from garden guy. I wish my disapearing men would send me a nice note like that.

    Ankita – A little time will help. And this type of conversation needs to happen in person.

    I feel respect is an important foundation for any friendship and all relationships. I grew-up as a girl with an full understanding that no means no and that trust and respect are at the foundation here. I am feeling some concern right now and need to feel assured – what do you think?

  271.  #271Ankita on August 10, 2010 at 8:40 am

    I read Erika’s comment, and I really admire her for how she handled….

    I feel like am getting support……

  272.  #272Brenda on August 10, 2010 at 8:41 am

    Erika Awakening,

    That sounds wonderful! Thank you so much for all your input on here the last few days! And best wishes in your awesome relationship!


  273.  #273Ankita on August 10, 2010 at 8:42 am

    Am getting what you all are saying… No indeed means no…..
    I feel like I should address this in person, just the Lizzie said….
    Then perhaps I would feel better to see his reactions and expressions….

  274.  #274Brenda on August 10, 2010 at 8:46 am


    Did you ever see the movie, “Bringing Down the House”? The 15 year old girl secretly goes to a party with drinking and drugs. Her “boyfriend” tries to force himself on her. She calls Queen Latifah crying, asking to be picked up.

    Queen Latifah comes to the party, asking what happened. She gets angry and asks, “Where he at? Where he at???” In the next scene, she is hanging him upsidedown by his legs over a 2nd floor balcony! The kids are down below on the sidewalk watching and laughing.

    She demands that he repeat, “NO MEANS NO! I’M SORRY!”

    I want to see you with a man who LOVES you. Forcing himself on you is not LOVE. It is self-centered stealing. He took without permission. He manipulated you because he knew sex is an area of weakness for you.

    If you did it with joy and desire, that would be totally different. Sure, you enjoyed it once it was in motion. But he manipulated and took advantage of you to get what HE wanted. He didn’t care what YOU wanted. He used you.

  275.  #275AmberS on August 10, 2010 at 8:46 am


    Thank you for expressing your concerns for Ankita. Would you be willing to share your email address with me? Please don’t if you’re in any way uncomfortable. I feel weird asking because I’m new here. I also feel that some things I would like to say to some of the sirens on this blog would come off smarmy and kiss @ss in the wrong context. That’s me judging myself, and I suppose I shouldn’t care how people interpret my words.


    It’s easy for me to feel a connection with people who have similar past life experiences. But the connection is all on my side- since I haven’t posted my background.

    I think of this space as a garden- and I love how you all keep it watered & fed and help each other grow.

  276.  #276dorothea on August 10, 2010 at 8:51 am

    whenever i get a note from a guy about how he is seeing someone now, it always sounds like…he is leaving the door open to me for the future, just in case they dont work out. i feel bad for girls who get exclusive without real commitment.

  277.  #277Lucy on August 10, 2010 at 9:02 am

    What Erika wrote here is SO true — it is EXACTLY why I feel so strongly for WH — “their vibe …. an intuitive taking in of everything that man is. His vibe is created by his belief system. We women have gut reactions to men based on his vibe. A masculine, dominant man who believes in himself will attract women without doing anything at all…”

    My attraction to him was definitely just like that — way past physical (tho that was included) — it was just this “knowing” that he is a wonderful wonderful man.

    This feels encouraging too — “And all this thinking is what’s getting in the way of real connection, which mostly is SILENT and NON-VERBAL.” —

    I feel amazed to read “real connection . . . mostly is SILENT and NON-VERBAL” — because there was so much of that on my date with WH — times of silence while walking or driving or sitting on the beach — but they didn’t feel at all awkward like silences do when you feel disconnected — they felt like “we are here together, walking, driving, gazing at the sea, joyful and peaceful in each other’s company, connected by the words and feelings that have already passed between us and that will arise again whenever new words float up to our tongues but in the meantime here we are, just being, together.”

    I hope it felt that way to him too. It seemed like it did. He didn’t seem at ALL like the silences were awkward — he seemed like he was completely at peace with them.

    Now I’m thinking too much again. I don’t know how to stop thinking — I just wish I knew if he feels the same…..

  278.  #278Lucy on August 10, 2010 at 9:05 am

    Dorothea — “i feel bad for girls who get exclusive without real commitment.” — that’s what I thought when I read that — especially since I know he dumped the last woman he was exclusive with and she was heartbroken (and became slightly stalkerish). 🙁

  279.  #279dorothea on August 10, 2010 at 9:12 am

    deleting old emails with guys i turned out to really dislike. feeling triggered but also lightened.

  280.  #280Lucy on August 10, 2010 at 9:13 am

    If he’s the One, nothing I think matters.

    If he’s NoT the One, nothing I think matters.

  281.  #281Rori Raye on August 10, 2010 at 9:28 am

    Hi all – I’d love for Erika to come answer this for me – I’d love to have clarification what “no sex” means to you. If I were a man, I would not even consider marrying a woman I could not feel and taste and smell intimately – and as a woman – I wouldn’t consider marrying a man I couldn’t feel, taste, and smell intimately. It doesn’t mean I’d need to have full intercourse necessarily, but I’d need some nakedness – and I’d need to know that he’s a good lover. I’d need to know that he was capable, that he could “get it up” – that his sex drive was somewhere in my neighborhood. Finding these things out over an engagement period seems okay to me – but a little dicey. On the other hand, I totally get the “one man” thing…though I personally would feel a sense of deep loss if I erased all my sexual experiences before my husband – even the “bad” ones (okay – I wouldn’t mind losing the “humiliating” ones….) Sex, for me, is a way of expression – perhaps “art” – I like that view in general. Love, Rori

  282.  #282Lucy on August 10, 2010 at 9:42 am

    Rori — I am finding (mostly by looking back at my past) like some others mentioned, that there seems to be a stong correlation between good kissing and good in bed — do you have any experiences that would contradict that? — If it’s true, it would be one way to tell without having intercourse ahead of time — I would agree with you that there has to be some degree of physical passion/ connection going on in the relationship — and I wonder too if that “vibe” thing that Erika just wrote about comes into play here — “an intuitive taking in of everything that man is” — that along with everything else, you sense his passion, his ability, his drive, his absolute sexiness. After that kiss with WH — and the wonderful vibe I felt from him all night — I have no doubt that he is a giving, passionate, spiritual, creative, amazing lover — and I hope I get the chance to confirm that. 🙂

    But, I could be wrong, and maybe we can’t tell. Just sayin’ 🙂

  283.  #283Brenda on August 10, 2010 at 10:07 am

    Amber, RE: #273 – I love, love, love what you said about this place being like a well fed, well watered garden!!! Yes, that is how I feel, and I love it here!

    You are welcome to my email address!


  284.  #284Brenda on August 10, 2010 at 10:09 am

    Hey guess whaaaatt!!!??!!??

    I just had what amounts to a date with Bill!!

    I just spent an hour with him and two other people at the cafeteria, by his invitation! Yes, folks, I leaned back, can you believe it?? !!! 🙂

    We had a rolling conversation, and I shifted it to feelings. I learned a lot about him, and he also teased the heck out of me, so I teased the heck out of him! Maybe I’ll share more later! I feel so happy!

  285.  #285Lizzie on August 10, 2010 at 10:14 am

    oh awesome Brenda – just awesome. There are no other words. you go diva!!!

  286.  #286Brenda on August 10, 2010 at 10:15 am

    One thing I want to share…Bill said when he was a boy, if he came from school crying after a fight, his father would spank him. I started talking about expressing anger in a healthy way. It went back in forth with good-natured teasing, until I playfully said, “Ya wanna fight??”

    He said, “Not here, not now, maybe at 5 pm outside of work!”

    I grinned from ear to ear, quickly thinking how I could respond to that without sounding too flirty in front of coworkers. I said, “Oooh, that would be fun! I like to fight with boys!”

    He said, “I’d let you start it, of course, but I guarantee you wouldn’t finish it!”

    I just laughed. It was all sorts of back and forth banter, and it was a whole lot of fun! But at least I let him know I would totally enjoy meeting him outside of work! I sure hope that’s what he was implying, because he is moving TOO organically!

    Sh*t or get off the pot, Bill! LOL! 😛 Wow, am I crazy about him!

  287.  #287Lucy on August 10, 2010 at 10:18 am

    Yay Brenda! Yay Bill!!

  288.  #288lm on August 10, 2010 at 10:25 am


    awesome!!! keep leaning back and being warm and i don’t doubt something great will happen…

  289.  #289Brenda on August 10, 2010 at 10:26 am


    About sex, I have a ten year relationship with Kenny, my exhusband. And, because we were separated by concrete and steel, we have never had sex. We got a lot of foreplay in, tho, 10 years worth! It has made for a most unique relationship dynamic!

    The furthest we ever got (in a visiting room with officers supervising) was I have given him a hand job a number of times. He has fingered me and sucked my nipples. And we’ve flashed each other.

    Even tho I’ve never laid by his side, I feel very confident that we are quite compatible in bed, and in the areas where we aren’t, I know where I am not fully pleased. What I’m saying is you can learn a huge amount about how a man is in bed thru conversation!

    We have written each other long fantasies, realistic fantasies, where I can almost feel him inside me. We have discussed sexual preferences. I have shared my sexual experiences with him and vice versa.

    After all my experiences with men, I would NEVER marry a man without talking all that out IN FINE DETAIL. I especially want to know how many inches he has and if he can get it up! And I wouldn’t be opposed to light sexual play within a committed relationship.

    I love to talk about sex! Kenny got me thru all my inhibitions! 😛

    How do you feel about that?

  290.  #290Lucy on August 10, 2010 at 10:30 am

    Oh yeah, I better ask WH how many inches he has right off!!! 😉 jk!!!!

  291.  #291Lucy on August 10, 2010 at 10:32 am

    But now that you mention it, I kinda would like to know, just to know… hehe …. But knowing might get me into even more trouble than I’m already in . . . cuz I’ve got a pretty strong gut feeling he’s got everything he needs…..

    I need to be put in a coma for awhile!

  292.  #292Brenda on August 10, 2010 at 10:40 am

    Thanks, all! It’s fun to be able to share my joy with you!

    He really tries to get my dander up by describing trapping and shooting animals for fur. He was raised in the country as a hunter.

    I shared that I fed and watered a thin, hungry-acting fox yesterday. I bought him cottage cheese at the convenience store.

    The guy with us said, “Did you hear about the fox that was in someone’s house and killed their little girl?”

    Bill said, “Yeah, they were feeding him cottage cheese. When I was a kid, we’d go out at 2 or 3 in the morning and give a fox call.”

    I said, “I feel yucky.

    He said, “Then the foxes would come into view.”

    “I feel sad.”

    “We’d pull out our guns and pop them off.”

    “I feel nauseated.”

    “Then we’d dispose of the carcasses and stretch the hides to dry.”

    “I feel disgusted.”

    I am not crazy about that part of him, but nor can I disqualify him, considering that it is a part of life. I wear leather shoes and eat chicken salads, ya know? But I can tell he’s just razzing me by giving me the details. So I said, “Oh, that’s ok, I can take it! But I can give it, too!”

    He just got over gout and has a sore foot and leg, so on the way back, I said, “Which leg did you say it was that had gout? Oh, I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to kick you!” (I didn’t really kick him).

    I told him how when I was camping, my dogs came back with a goose, and I let them eat it. I said, “I didn’t like it, but, hey, it was instinct for them. And teasing is instinct for you…AND for me! You’re fun!”

    He’s just trying to have fun with me…he’s not TRYING to upset me. So I take it in the spirit it’s meant. But at the same time, I let him know clearly that I like Bambi and his friends!

  293.  #293Brenda on August 10, 2010 at 10:46 am

    Yeah, any man I’m going to spend the rest of my life with HAS to have a bare minimum of 5″. Cuz otherwise I’d be stuck using my dildo for any pleasure. And I have way too many decades logged already of doing that! Preferrably at least 6. Mmmm!

  294.  #294Lucy on August 10, 2010 at 10:49 am

    “BARE” minimum. Hehe. Thickness matters too, though. Lol.

  295.  #295Lucy on August 10, 2010 at 10:50 am

    Damn, I shoulda told WH I had to strip search him before I drove 90 minutes to a dark beach with him!

  296.  #296Brenda on August 10, 2010 at 11:09 am


    LOL! Yes, thickness matters, too! Ryan’s was perfect! 😛

  297.  #297Jeannette on August 10, 2010 at 2:57 pm

    Lizzie, that is a beautiful feeling message. Thank you ever so much, you are really in tune….

  298.  #298Renee on August 10, 2010 at 3:13 pm

    Speaking of sex…I just had an interesting go around with the latest guy I’ve been txting, the dr. who does “housecalls”, lol.

    I asked him what his passions were and he told me he was nervous to discuss that with me…we joked around a bit and finally he sent me an email about his ‘passions’…he listed his family and his children, but the main thing he went on about was sex…apparently he’s really into tantric sex and studying sex and while he didn’t get detailed about sexual acts in his email, he went in depth about how he felt on a variety of levels about it.

    Well, as you all know, I’ve been struggling with the idea of how long I want to wait with the next guy until we have sex…I know several of you advocate waiting until marriage is on the table, but I’m not sure that’s right for me. I do know that having sex too soon has led to some heartbreak for me, and I have decided to purposely wait for at least a month (if not two or three) before I have sex with someone, and it would have to be with the understanding that we are sexually exclusive.

    Well, I wrote dr. feelgood and told him that I, too, enjoyed sex a great deal, but that I had decided to wait a while before becoming sexual with anyone again. I actually told him, with feeling messages and I want/don’t want statements, about how I had felt used fairly recently and that I didn’t want to feel that way again. I told him that as I was writing this, that tears were welling up in my eyes because of all the emotions, both good and bad, that sex brings about for me.

    I said I wasn’t sure how long I planned to wait, but that I wanted to be with someone who respected that and didn’t make moves on me anyway. I told him I wasn’t sure whether that worked for him, but that this is what I felt like I needed to do for me.

    Well, he adored it. He said he thought I was amazing and that made him like me even more. He asked to call me and we’ve just gotten off the phone (he’s going to call me back in a few minutes) and so far, so good.

    To Indy guy (whom I haven’t heard from since I left him yesterday morning)…I say, you snooze, you lose:-).

  299.  #299Daria on August 10, 2010 at 5:15 pm

    woooo hooo go Renee! Thats awesome!

  300.  #300Daria on August 10, 2010 at 5:17 pm

    my man friend ok cd just got off the phone with me

    and he said i sound so sexy

    that means that neighbor dude must have thought so too

    if he was turned off like i was

    and i felt turned on and im pretty sure by now actually this is cool to realize and feels kinda scary that when i feel turned on men get turned on around me and it feels scary about it when it doesn’t feel appropriate and i don’t want to be around turned on men omgosh that feels overwhelming and scary

  301.  #301Daria on August 10, 2010 at 5:19 pm

    it feels scary to be around turned on men

    i turn men on when im turned on

    it feels scary to feel turned on


    it feels terrigying

    WHY do we have to do this?


    i feel terrirfied lik eim gonna get raped

    thats not gonna happen

    i love you

    i love you

    i love you

    you are safe to feel turned on

    trust me

    maybe you werent safe at whatever time or someone wasnt safe

    i know you feel panicky

    you are safe now

    i feel unsafe


    i feel like i cant protect myself from rape

    i need to take more ninja classes


    f*ck a ninja up

    i want to do that like jennifer

  302.  #302Jennifer on August 10, 2010 at 6:15 pm

    I wish that you were here in Canada. We would TOTALLY go to judo together.
    We have a anti-rape specific move…or two actually. I would love to learn with you.
    We have a move that my 125lb sister can use to throw the 250lb instructor off of her.
    I LOVE it.
    It is prolly part of the reason that I have a crush on Judo instructor…who WOULDN”T like a dude that designs women’s self defence?
    That and he’s super HOT…those of you on my FB have seen.

  303.  #303Brenda on August 10, 2010 at 10:24 pm

    Hi Ankita,

    I hope I didn’t come across as too harsh about your relationship with Vishal. I know you love him. I want to be sensitive to you.

    I think the reason I responded so strongly is because I was you 10 or 15 years ago. More than once, a man has forced touching or sex, against my will, trying to “convince” me that it’s what I wanted. I finally got sick of being hurt by men who were truly self-centered. And now I will only welcome men into my life who respect my boundaries.


  304.  #304Melissa on August 11, 2010 at 9:34 pm

    I don’t know if there is a similar situation discussed on this blog, but I am wondering what to do/how to be… So the guy I was in the imaginary relationship with, started looking for love online & seems to have found it… in a SCAMMER! I know this because I found & read a letter he received(I now this was wrong & very un-sireny of me, but what’s done is done). He is not computer or internet savvy & has no clue that he is being scammed. He is actually falling for it. I tried to drop hints by telling him about some scam letters I received, hoping a light bulb might go off, but to no avail. I do hope he doesn’t actually get to where he sends money, but bottom line is, there WILL be a point when he realizes it’s all a scam & I suspect when that time comes, he is going to 1. be heart-broken/embarrassed. 2. Want to reach out to the closest “real woman”. If that woman happens to be me, I want to be ready to react in a positive siren-like manner. I do still care about him, but I want to be able to be supportive without expectations or letting him “suck me back in”. I have been dating (had a lovely one last night actually. 🙂 & haven’t communicated with him, so I’m working on shifting that vibe, but if there is a chance for him to see me in a new light, I can’t help but wonder if it is possible. Part of me is devastated that he is opening his heart for a fraudulent email, but I also can’t help wondering if it may just send him running back to me.
    I don’t know if that’s what will happen & I don’t want to get my hopes up, but if it DOES, what do I do?

  305.  #305Ankita on August 11, 2010 at 10:29 pm


    No no no my lovely. You didn’t come across as harsh. I loved your concerns about me. 🙂

    I talked to Vishal in feeling message, the one I mentioned above. he responded, “I’m sorry about that. But both of us were naked and were rubbing our things, and as you teased me saying, “So, 5th Officer Vishal.. (winked)”, I got going and lost my control…!! And had sex with you..!”

    I said, “It felt bad…!”
    He silent…!!

    Erika’s story truly sounded amazing. I even shared it with my mom. I just had two questions in mind about her…

    1) How can we remain detached to our guys, while stilll loving them?
    2) How should we maintain a long distance relationship? (Coz if everything goes fine, Vishal and I’ll be having it in some months, coz he’ll be going to his hometown after he completes his study in my city. And I don’t know how to carry on with that… I just don’t want him to go to another state, i.e, his state.)

    Every response is more than welcome……

  306.  #306Ankita on August 11, 2010 at 10:32 pm

    A guy asked me out for date. i immediately agreed. he asked my take on FWB. WTF!

    I said I don’t have anything as such in mind. He asked, “then what’ll I do on date? You know when girls and guys are in one room alone, something happens.”

    Me, “I know. But I had coffee in mind. Not room.”

    WTF man…!!!

    then he texted me, “It was nice talking to you. i saw your pics. they are damn hot and sexy..”


  307.  #307Eva on August 11, 2010 at 11:21 pm

    Hi Sirens,

    I have a question in my mind regarding CD:

    What if the men you are dating simultaneously suddenly meet?

    Let´s imagine that for example you are going to a party with one of them, you are dancing with him, flirting, having good time, the connection is perfect but suddenly another of “your” men enters the bar. At first when he sees you, he smiles at you and wants to say hello so he comes closer to express how happy he is that he met you there….until…he sees your date.

    What you would do?

    Would you:

    1. Act as if nothing happened and said in a friendly way: “Hey, this is XY and this is XX”
    2. Briefly say hello to the one that came later and then ignored him for the rest of the evening
    3. Make up an excuse and tried to leave the bar as soon as possible hoping that the one who came later did not see you

    And what if you were dating let´s say 4 men and all of them met…LOL?

    In a small town with only 1 disco bar like the one I live in this is definitely possible to happen.

    Thanks for any opinions.


  308.  #308Donna on August 11, 2010 at 11:50 pm

    Hi i am new to this blog, and have just read al of your comments, and have read some very good points.i am in a situation like rori describes. i met a man 10 months agowe had sex the 1st time 3 weeks after meeting and have been so i thought exclusive since then but from he start he would litterly jump over me to go out to a bar, this confused me after about 3 weeks he told me he fell in love with me and a mistake but i have fallen for him hard and now he seems to be wanting to go out to bars all weekend and not always with me as i am not a drinker.and i am told he buys other women beer and tries to find out some of their names and last week end i went out 1 nite with him an when i went too rest room an came bk out a lady was thanking him for the beer it seems to me he is trying to play the field with me even being there i feel buynig women beeer an wanting to go out by himself is a sign he is not happy or satisfied with me am i wrong, also he lied sometimes of where he was at an i went to a bar 1 nite where he wasnt supposose to be and i flipped out an call him a liar, since then he seems to have changed, i told him what he does reflects on me cause everyone knows we are going toghether an he is being disrespectful of me. and he tells me he loves me an he is happy with what he has and dont want any one else he has me so confused, and his actions say rori says i let myself get so rapped up in his life and its devistaing.any one have any advice i really need it.there is more to it but i dont want to write a book lol!

  309.  #309Brenda on August 12, 2010 at 3:06 am


    How do you feel about what happened with Vishal?

    I think you stay detached by circular dating. Your heart is not connected to any one man. But I know, easier said than done. I’m probably not the one to handle that.

    As far as a long distance relationship, I have had many of those. It is very difficult. I managed by thinking about the last time we were together or on the phone. I focused on what we did have, rather than on what we didn’t have.

    I hope you sent Mr. FWB packing. He wants sex, not you, not a long term relationship.


  310.  #310Mercedes on August 12, 2010 at 6:53 am

    Erika: Not sure why but I feel a bit uncomfortable commenting on your situation…but then I guess you probably wouldn’t post it here if you weren’t looking for comments so…here goes…

    Sounds to me like Vegas Guy gets to have his cake and eat it too. He gets you on call…sex talk whatever. He gets to sleep with whoever he wants to sleep with. He never has to worry about you sleeping with anyone because you’ve made it clear you need to be married first so unless he gets an invite to your wedding he can be confident that’s not happening. Sounds like a win win situation for him.

    I’m absolutely positive this makes you VERY attractive in his eyes (challenges usually are to a man) but I seriously doubt it makes you marriage material. I don’t know any man who will marry a woman when he can’t have sex with her IF he has her blessing to get his sex elsewhere. If you were married and he was doing what he’s doing it would be called an affair. Why would he want that label when he can do it with permission, without a ring and all the while getting to be your friend – a friend who fills his need for intimate conversation – and be with as many women as he wants to for his need to fill his sexual desires?

    I would think he’d have to want your body pretty bad in order to marry you for it. And it sounds to me like that’s not the case. He’s not even willing to see you, spend time in person with you, date you…unless you put out. As a matter of fact, he’s willing to PAY the fee for canceling a plane ticket if you’re not willing to have sex with him! WOW!

    I know for me, if a man canceled a date because I informed him I wasn’t having sex…well…that says loud and clear “I don’t want to see you unless I can sleep with you” and that is NOT good enough for me. Not even CLOSE. So your comment about how the other men referred to on this blog are not near man enough for you…well…I know my standards are a LOT higher than what you describe here, so…I feel like I’m about the luckiest woman on the face of the earth!

    So many of the lines in your posts sound very strong, but more than that, to me, they sound like they are simply hiding a very insecure woman who might say she knows her worth, but by continuing a relationship with a man who isn’t willing to date her without sex…well…let’s just say your actions speak a LOT louder than your words. Probably not just to me…I’m guessing Vegas Guy sees it too.

    It’s like you have studied all the right things to say and do to turn on guys in the community (sort of a reverse to what they do to women) but…as with them…you haven’t mastered how to be true to yourself and strong in your femininity. It’s a game of creating sexual attraction (same as their game)…but it is no more lasting than the relationships of the “hundreds of other women” these guys have slept with. It’s simply putting it back on them and being “the only women” their teachings don’t work on. Challenging? Yes. Basis for love? No more than what THEY do is a basis for love…

    I wish you the very best and hope this situation becomes what you are looking for. My heart certainly goes out to you on this. It feels very, very sad to me. I really hope the other ladies reading here are able to define their own sense of self worth.

    Much Love,

  311.  #311Ankita on August 12, 2010 at 1:17 pm


    I’m not worried about it that much.. Am worried about something else…. let me share what is really really bugging me…..

    Just now, we were on phone, there’s a girl in his fb id who keeps updating her pics every day and he is one of the commentators who do comment on her, every alternate days or something….
    I pointed it out saying that “i feel angry.’
    He laughed and said that “it’s all non sense”, and also asked if i don’t want him to comment on hers (in tension, i could sense it from his voice)
    I said “you can do whatever you want, but i want you to comment on my pics too, i don’t like it when the whole world comments on me and you don’t…”
    he was silent…
    i said “say something…”
    he said “no you say, even more.”
    me, “i have got nothing more to say”
    he, “you know, at times i gave her seriously sarcastic comment.”
    me, “it ain’t my problem. i am just thinking about my own. what you say to her is her problem, not mine. am least concerned about her.”

    after that, though we did have another fun talks, etc., but i feel like i messed it all up…
    i remember doing the same thing with my ex and all got messed up.
    i don’t want this to repeat a similar pattern…
    i know history repeats itself, but not now, please…..
    am a different person now…..

    i am feeling freaked out…
    i don’t want that……
    i feel angry at to why he comments on her pics..
    i feel guilty at to why i pointed out…
    am scared might not i scare him away…..

    i feel freaking out that if i did a mistake in pointing it out… might not he feel like am keeping a track on his id……

    i feel damn… damn… damn………..

  312.  #312Ankita on August 12, 2010 at 1:20 pm

    i want to tell him that i didn’t intended to stop him from commenting on hers, but i don’t wanna mention her name even once now. coz as rori says, don’t even mention her name..

    but i already did…

    i cant stand his commenting on hers…
    she has some 672 friends and she is a good for nothing girl, keeps taking pic all day long….. and updating them, so that guys can comment on hers…..

    i hate her………………..

  313.  #313Ankita on August 12, 2010 at 1:22 pm

    i feel freaking out…………

    f*cking hell…………..

    going back to phone with him……………


  314.  #314Brenda on August 12, 2010 at 1:32 pm


    I feel yucky reading that. I don’t like it when people put other people down. What do you think?

  315.  #315Lizzie on August 12, 2010 at 1:45 pm

    Ankita sweet siren girl – maybe I have just been living too long …. what is causing the freaking out feelings. I has nothing to do with him; it is your sense of confidence and control playing tricks on yourself. Take a deep breath – have a look at the new post on breathing and do this. Take a journey inside and take a look at what is happening – V has triggered you. What V does is none of your business. Breathe this message into yourself – what someone else does is none of my business; how I respond is within my power and control; I don’t give my power and contol to others when what they are doing is none of my business. Now, re-focus on your own business and how you feel about yourself. Lean back. Work on containing yourself and what that trigger did – follow it within and work that through with us – not with V. Be fair to yourself first.

  316.  #316Brenda on August 12, 2010 at 1:57 pm


    Here is what I hear you saying:

    Vishal, I don’t like it that you are looking at other women and openly looking at other women, knowing that I am aware of it. But that’s okay. But I hate it and am so angry.

    I feel concerned for you because you are without much experience and you seem extra vulnerable.

    What is important here is that you build up your strength as an independent woman who is JUST FINE, thank you very much, with or without a man! And you are a woman who is SO fine and strong that any man who gets to be with you is very fortunate.

    I sense your vibe coming from a place of weakness, very often. I don’t say that in criticism, but just to help you be aware of yourself.

    You are a beautiful woman with a very sweet heart.

    How do you feel about a feeling message something like this…you could say it after HE calls YOU, and you could say it calmly, not with anger or tears:

    Vishal, I feel yucky knowing you are on facebook looking at and commenting on pictures of other women (Pause).

    I don’t want to be one of those women who thinks it’s okay for a man to cheat on her or constantly have wandering eyes. (Pause)

    I don’t want to be treated second class. (Pause)

    I don’t want to be with a man who is a player. It would feel so good to be cherished as the infinitely valuable woman who I am by a man who only has eyes for me. What do you think?

    These are just some ideas, and you could word it however you are comfortable. Or maybe just say one or two of those things. If it were me, I would tell him to beat it and don’t look back!! But that is your choice.

    He has already proven he disrespects you and self-centeredly puts himself above you. He has already proven he will not honor you by staying within your boundaries. His behavior with the other woman’s pictures does not surprise me in the least. And I only wonder how often he goes on porn sites if he’s doing that.

    I love you and I mean no harshness. I want a very high quality man for you.

    Much Love and Huggies,

  317.  #317Brenda on August 12, 2010 at 2:03 pm


    In my past, my self-esteem was so low that I stayed with men who were alcoholics, who lied to me, stole from me, used me, etc, etc. I wish so much one of my brothers or someone had seen with enough insight to tell me lovingly that they saw him as bad for me. But instead they were judgmental, angry, and cold. They pretty much chased me into his arms, because I didn’t feel any acceptance from them.

    I wasted 1.5 years on this jerk! If I had it to do over again, I would have said, “Beat it and don’t look back!”

    Rori, the highest compliment is when someone imitates you. I am going to make a new tool here! 🙂 I will call this the Circle Tool:

    Draw yourself a picture with you standing in the middle of the circle. Write how you want to be treated inside the circle. Write how you don’t want to be treated outside the circle. If he goes outside that circle, walk away.

    It’s about boundaries, and he is disrespecting your boundaries left and right. I don’t like him.


  318.  #318Mercedes on August 12, 2010 at 2:10 pm

    Brenda: I’m sorry you feel yucky reading my response to Erika. It was intended to give her my honest take on her situation since she comes here from the place of a coach and I wanted to show her what someone else might think of her tactics. It was not intended to invoke or draw out any emotions (positive or negative) from anyone else reading it.

    That being said, I actually think it was a pretty good analysis of the situation from my perspective…obviously not from her perspective, but certainly from mine.

    But I’m curious…what do you think? Would you feel good about yourself if you continued to see a man who didn’t want to see you unless you had sex with him? All I’m saying is that from my perspective, that sounds like a woman who is struggling with her own self worth and image but portraying that role as one of strength and wisdom.

    Erika has studied PUA techniques longer than I have and is certainly much more active in their community than I am, but this is a clear example of answering a challenge with a qualifying statement. PUA’s do it all the time. It is a game…it works on women and it works on men. Cool for some things (especially one night stands based on instant and intense lust – often mistaken for a “connection”), but doesn’t make for a lasting and loving marriage (however, witholding sex to get married has been very successful in creating soon to be divorce situations…lol).

    I do hope other women take that into consideration prior to following Erika’s example here…that’s all. Which is why the only part of my comment directed at (or intended for) the entire group of women here was my last sentence:

    “I really hope the other ladies reading here are able to define their own sense of self worth.”

    Much Love,

  319.  #319Brenda on August 12, 2010 at 2:20 pm

    Hi Mercedes,

    My favorite kind of movies are those where the characters have some deep change within between the beginning and end of the movie.

    The most notable one that comes to mind is “Never Been Kissed”, where Drew Barrymore (Josie Grossie) faces her fears and hurts from high school at age 25 as a newspaper reporter going undercover as a high school student at the very school where she was tormented and rejected. By the end of the movie, she is confident and “in” with the cool kids, as well as finally being kissed for the first time.

    In “Maid in Manhattan”, the successful senator goes from dating only “high class” women to finding true love with a maid. He rejects her when he finds out she is a maid. But by the end of the movie, he publicly kisses her, changing his standards of what a quality woman is.

    In “Ever After”, Prince Henry makes a comparable transition. He believes he is dating a woman with a title and breeding. He finds out he isn’t; rejects her; and by the end of the movie, he begs her forgiveness and lifts her into a joyful spin, disshevelled peasant clothes and shoes and all.

    Erika didn’t give us all the details of her romance. I am sure there are hours of conversation between them, coming to common ground, where he found deep, inner change. Is it possible that he was sleeping around BEFORE he met her? Not currently? I mean, I have a past, too, and I’m sure a lot of women on here do. I don’t judge him for his past state of womanizing.

    I saw deep change in my exhusband during the past ten years I’ve known him (we were married 2003-2006). I love him, trust him, and respect him now more than when we were married.

    After all, aren’t we ALL in process? 🙂


  320.  #320Brenda on August 12, 2010 at 2:27 pm

    P.S. I looked up PUA = Pick Up Artist

    I know there are manipulators out there. When I myself work these tools, I see them as means to which I can become a better communicator, both listening and expressing. And just understand better the unspoken dynamics in boy-girl relationships.

    I am just making a general comment here. I only know that I felt impressed by Erika’s confidence. Her comments about resting in knowing that the right man is there for me helped significantly in my closure process for Ryan. I respect your right to think and feel how you want, and I don’t have any anger about you expressing your views. I liked what she said a whole lot.


  321.  #321Mercedes on August 12, 2010 at 2:40 pm

    Brenda: I think you might be misunderstanding where I’m coming from. It doesn’t matter to me what he’s doing or not doing or whether he’s sleeping with other women or not. Erika clearly states she doesn’t care if he does sleep with other women. This gives him EXACTLY what guys who want to take your challenge but still not commit want. It’s the PERFECT situation for him and others like him.

    What I was mainly referring to however was his canceling a date with her (and paying the cancel fee on a plane ticket for goodness sake!!!) because he refused to see her without sex. I think it is a touch irresponsible for a woman to coach other women (espeically women who are looking for lasting relationships) to be like that…but it makes no difference to me who he’s sleeping with or how long he’s been doing it or whether or not he’s faithful to Erika now. None at all. I’m only talking about the fact that Erika said this:

    “I’m holding out for marriage to show that he really means it.”

    And this:

    “He canceled his trip. (Yes, this is how spoiled men are nowadays.) I think he thought that would make me cave.”

    And that being used as an example or advice from a coach on how to get a man to marry you doesn’t sit well with me.

    Erika knows my own teachings well enough to probably not be surprised (at all) by my saying that. As a matter of fact, once she told me on my blog (or via email…I can’t remember which) that she agreed with almost nothing I have ever said. No…I doubt she’d be surprised by my take at all…

    Much Love,

  322.  #322Mercedes on August 12, 2010 at 2:43 pm

    Be careful about calling them manipulators…they HATE that! LOL 🙂

    I get an email at least once a week from one asking me to stop talking. I haven’t even said anything for MONTHS but they keep reading old stuff I’ve written. I know a few in person and I recently quit smoking (cigs…I’m not a pot smoker – just to clarify) and one went so far as to offer me a cigarette at this party I was at if I would shut down my blog! HAHA! Ummm…No… 🙂

  323.  #323Mercedes on August 12, 2010 at 2:48 pm

    Oh…and Brenda…I’m glad you see what Erika is doing as confidence. I don’t, but that’s okay…we don’t need to agree on this. Again…I am only referring to it as from my own perspective.

    Much Love,

  324.  #324Gigi on August 12, 2010 at 2:51 pm

    It’s so great to hear so many different sirens’ voices!

    Mercedes: I respect you for taking a stand with another siren, Erika who is a coach and so if she is dishing it out, ought to be able to take it.

    Both Erika and Mercedes made interesting points and it is up to everyone else to agree and/or disagree in different areas of both of their posts. Thanks for your comments!

  325.  #325Brenda on August 12, 2010 at 3:00 pm

    Erika wrote in #63: “I think he thought that would make me cave.

    It didn’t. It did lead us into some very interesting and deep conversations though …”

    In between Erika’s comment above and the ones below, I said the man was scum for cancelling his trip.

    Erika in #202: “Lol, you wouldn’t think he was scum if you knew that after that he continued contacting me every day, and that right now we are having a very amazing conversation about how non-physical our connection was and how much we both want the emotional connection there totally solid before having sex …

    I have no idea what will happen with this man, but I know beyond any shadow of a doubt that he loves and honors me …

    And that is why micro-analyzing movements doesn’t work … it misses entirely the emotional content of what is going on with a man …”

    Erika in #204: Lol … I’m not offended. Just clarifying. That happened a few weeks ago, and he was beating himself up about it, so I told him to stop fussing, I was already over it.

    In fact, what I told him is that his canceling told me all I needed to know about him, he clearly wasn’t the One.

    Lol. He was dumbfounded.”

  326.  #326Mercedes on August 12, 2010 at 3:06 pm

    Gigi: Thank you! Very sweet. Erika and I have had LOTS of conversations…looks like this won’t be two way dialog between the two of us, but…that’s okay. We both know we have two VERY different takes on relationships. I am passionately happy in my own relationship with J and I certainly have the BEST wishes for her to find the amazing relationship meant for her. My issue is more of a coaching style. My guess is she feels much the same way about me (although I cannot be sure).

    Brenda: I read all of Erika’s comments. My response was based on a complete read…more than once…not a scanning of the conversation. Erika and I do NOT have the same coaching style or beliefs about relationships. At all. I disagree with her. Reading her comments again will not change that. I’m sorry you seem so upset. I don’t mean to upset you at all. My response was for her…and again…I’m sure she could almost quote word for word what I would think of it…she and I have been down similar roads before…

    Much Love,

  327.  #327tinque on August 12, 2010 at 3:13 pm

    “he loves and honors me”
    I really didn’t want to get involved in this, but citing this phrase, stating it in the first place is, well, I feel the need to address it.

    There is no way to know if someone honors you in a few hours of conversation, and more importantly, there is no way someone can feel real love in the same time span.
    Love, true, intimate, passionate love, the love I would venture to say most if not all of the women here desire, takes years to grow.
    I would even challenge there being such a thing as love at first sight. Yes there would be lust at first sight, and sometimes this can develop into love, but what was there at the beginning was attraction, chemistry, hormones, not love.

  328.  #328Daria on August 12, 2010 at 3:14 pm

    I see both sides here.

    I feel unworthy and scared of intimacy. ok. i am still going to get the relationship i want. as long as i intend to do so i will have it . this is what i believe. thank you.

  329.  #329Mercedes on August 12, 2010 at 3:17 pm

    Tinque: As usual…you are RIGHT ON THE MONEY! Yup…lust, chemistry, attraction, whatever…not love and not a true connection. Not intimacy. Not honor (or he would have shown up just to touch her face or her hair or to hold her hand)…

    Daria: I believe that for you. I really, really do.

    Much Love,

  330.  #330Daria on August 12, 2010 at 3:17 pm

    But falling into the story together where the role of woman and man is perfectly filled feels like love

    and every moment is love

    dont hate on beginning love

    feels scary like trapdoor woosh

    anyway its ok with eyes on the prize

    the sun the air the wind

    holding hands with my man

    in the sunlight


  331.  #331Mercedes on August 12, 2010 at 3:18 pm

    Signing off for the night ladies…my J is home from his business trip and I fully intend to spend every moment with him until I absolutely have to leave for work tomorrow…

    Much Love,

  332.  #332Daria on August 12, 2010 at 3:21 pm

    man wants sex

    man wants sex from me


    man wants sex from me me me

    man wants me


    i win

    man wants me

    i want man

    i want love

    i love me

    i feel good

    i feel new man

    new man
    new man

    swimming in men

    like men litter

    feels FUN

    i feel not bored

    with lots of new men

    i feel scared of one man

    one man?




    fight fight







    drag down

    so sad

    so heartbroken

    so behind

    the one man pull me down

    look up





    holding hands

    so far

    feels far

    let it in?


    no no no

    so cool

    way too scary

  333.  #333tinque on August 12, 2010 at 3:22 pm

    Daria – I have the relationship I only barely dared dream about, for I felt majorly undeserving. I still can feel unworthy sometimes of the intimacy, and I can even feel fearful of it sometimes, yet the man who exceeded my dreams is right here in living color.
    You can feel what you feel, and still you CAN create your desires.

  334.  #334Daria on August 12, 2010 at 3:25 pm

    yay tinque!

  335.  #335Brenda on August 12, 2010 at 3:36 pm


    I don’t feel upset at all. Just yucky. In my world, this is merely a discussion.

    I don’t understand what you have a problem with on Erika. She said NO to sex and he cancelled his trip. That was HIS decision. SHE stood her ground. Is she not supposed to continue to talk to him even though he continued to contact her, just because he cancelled the trip??? If so, I feel confused.

    Erika can continue talking to him if she wants because HE continued to contact HER. Not the other way around. THAT is what her coaching is about. Stay in YOUR power and watch them come to you (I’m assuming). If you choose to continue talking with them then you do it. If you don’t then don’t. What’s so irresponsible about her coaching?

    I saw her totally coming from a position of strength. In effect, her vibe said, “This is what I expect from a man, and if he doesn’t want to go along with my program, case closed.” She called his bluff. He came back, so she reopened the door.

    Should every woman handle a relationship conflict exactly the same way? Are you saying she should stop contact no matter what he says or does to get the relationship back on track?

    I am not understanding what hang-ups you have on Erika regarding that. You say you don’t care what he does, yet you just spelled out his whole down side of sleeping with other women from YOUR perspective. I don’t feel clear on what is bothering you about Erika.

    Like Gigi, I also appreciate whole different perspectives from other successful Sirens. And, I like to process them by discussing the ins and outs. I still feel uncomfortable with speaking badly of Erika. I wonder if you feel triggered by her somehow, beyond what you wrote. What do you think?

  336.  #336Ankita on August 12, 2010 at 4:26 pm


    Sometimes I feel like he’s not honoring my boundaries, and sometimes I feel like I make mole out of mountain… Either way, i get confused…!!

    I don’t know why the heck, am giving him another chance to prove to me that he is good for me….

    Some of his things really don’t go down with me, e.g., he had to apologize to me for calling me a “gold digger”, as i went pretty distant to him after that… He hates to admit that he is wrong ever.. He thinks he is always right….(Bad thing! I don’t like that…)

    I don’t know why, but I like this guy so much that i am giving him another chance, and just so i don’t get lost in the middle of nowhere, i keep posting here, so that you all can sense the red flags which I do miss… by being in the middle of situation…..

    I didn’t mention about her again, I feel like, i should let him do what he wants, and then decide if he’s good for me or not, coz I can’t change someone’s nature, and by stopping them, I may do more harm to myself than good…..

    I hope his dumb, idiot and complex minds starts to do things which makes sense…..

  337.  #337Ankita on August 12, 2010 at 4:32 pm


    I really do like your circle tool,and am gonna make a list of it too…..

    perhaps that’s where i can be clear about the mark till where i can compromise, and after that i gotta walk away….

    i really like him, and want to keep this going, but if he crosses my compromised mark, i gotta get out of there…..

  338.  #338Ankita on August 12, 2010 at 4:41 pm

    i feel weak, really weak…

    coz i can sense it’s the same way i freaked out with my ex when he merely used to talk to a girl, and they were nothing more than friends…. and remained so till the end…..

    and this girl, believe me, she does nothing more than taking pics and uploading them all day long, so that guys can comment on hers, and flatter her, and run after her like bees running after honey…..

    good for nothing girl…… is of nearly my age, but no education, has joined some office for high school pass, and friends, party, that’s all……..

    no ambition other than pics, and getting complimented by guys………

  339.  #339Laughing goddess on August 12, 2010 at 5:29 pm

    I felt triggered reading Erika’s posts as well. I also feel happy that Brenda got something helpful from them. I feel confused as to why Brenda is asking for more clarification about Mercedes’ issues with Erika’s post because it felt very clear to me what she was saying. Mercedes’ posts didn’t seem attacking to me. From what I understand, these two have a history in which they challenge each other’s viewpoints and it feels healthy to me.

    I feel triggered reading Erika say she won’t have sex until someone promises her forever. This goes completely against my own personal worldview. I don’t feel trusting of promises of forever. I feel much better when I live in the moment. For me, “forever” feels very out of the moment. I feel turned on by a man who is treating me great RIGHT NOW. In my reality there is no future, just a continuation of NOW moments.

    I also feel triggered when someone claims to have THE roadmap to success but hasn’t actually gotten there yet. I don’t feel comfortable going to a health practitioner that doesn’t radiate health. And the same goes for me with a relationship coach. If they have yet to get what they are looking for, I don’t feel comfortable blindly following their advice. It might feel good to take some bits an pieces that resonate with me.

    I am now remembering with amusement when I first came on the blog, I felt very triggered by a comment Mercedes wrote to Erika. It feels funny to me how much my perspective has changed.

    I feel hopeful that we can all lovingly accept each others opinion and experiences while still expressing our triggers.


  340.  #340Laughing goddess on August 12, 2010 at 5:35 pm

    Just to clarify, I’m not saying Erika is insisting we take her advice or that she knows the roadmap…I’m just saying, when someone offers me advice, it’s relevant to me that they have experience with what they are suggesting working.

  341.  #341Lizzie on August 12, 2010 at 6:33 pm

    Ankita – it is important to follow the internal path of jealousy. That has to do with trust and self confidence. What is important here is that it has nothing to do with other people – not other women, not your man, not anyone else at all. They are simply players in the landscape that happen to trigger a reaction. You must discover from where your reaction is coming from. I have orange flags around “your boundaries” – first of all, I don’t know what your boundaries are, so I could easily be writing from my hat, nevertheless, your boundaries have to do with how you feel you are being respected. Your man forcing himself upon you when you have said no, is disrespecting your boundary for trust, respect, caring, humanness. What he does with another person’s facebook posting, is absolutely none of your business and does not disrespect your boundary because you are not part of that picture. If your man makes a remark about you on someone elses facebook page, that is disrespecting your trust. You are not him. Build your own trust in yourself. Build your independant self-concept. Operate from your own personal power. Jealousy is an awful distructive feeling that is routed in overwhelming fear. Fear, lack of self trust, lack of self-concept, lack of esteme – yucky yucky awful feelings. It takes time to work through the pathways of jealousy – give yourself that time, you are worth it!!!

  342.  #342Brenda on August 12, 2010 at 6:54 pm


    Lizzie wrote some deep stuff there. I am glad you are seeking a healthy relationship. Rori had an eletter a while back about men looking at porn. I think one of her suggestions was to suggest looking at it with him. Ryan told me near the beginning of our relationship that he didn’t like the impurity of porn, but he enjoyed looking at nude art. He said he thinks it’s good for a man’s soul. I didn’t have an issue with that. I really think openness and trust is what is really important. I have developed that with Kenny, and I feel absolutely unthreatened when he comments on Lady Gaga’s Yoni shape showing thru her skimpy costumes. Likewise, I can comment about a man’s 8″ with a wow and Kenny will laugh!

    So it really is about where you are inside. This is a major, major issue to you because of your past relationship. And that’s understandable. Are you excusing Vishal because you are needy? I say that gently. I feel really concerned for you. I fell into the same trap of “forgiveness” and “acceptance”, all the while hurting inside. I want a man who cares about making me happy, not making me hurt.

  343.  #343Brenda on August 12, 2010 at 7:07 pm

    I felt a positive vibe shift when I read Erika’s attitudes and actions. I grew. I felt positive, empowered, and confident.

    I feel sad and drained thinking about other Sirens demeaning another Siren. I can’t imagine Rori talking to any of us in the tone in which Erika is being discussed. It would feel so good to feel reliable, steady support and care from all the Sirens to all the Sirens. How do you feel about that?

  344.  #344Cynthia on August 12, 2010 at 9:13 pm

    Erika, you have some very powerful, direct, truly guided words … to top-line it, it’s some of the absolute best advice for women and dating. How and where did you get into coaching? … And, you said, “you know how to reach me” … how do I reach you? -Cynthia

  345.  #345Laughing goddess on August 12, 2010 at 9:36 pm

    Hey Brenda: I feel so happy that you felt a positive vibe shift. I also feel a bit sad when I read the second paragraph of your post above. It feels better to me when there is a freedom and openness for others to express themselves in their own ways. As I type that, I feel the significance of my reaction being a mirror. I don’t want to see others expressions being controlled. And I take that as a message that I could be less controlling. I feel worried that I am not articulating myself well. Oh well, I love and appreciate my attempts at expressing myself.

    I guess I would like to say that goddesses here have a history of interactions and exchanges and for me, it feels better to allow that. In my experience here, I have seen Erika have strong opinions and not hold back on expressing them and also expressing her disagreement with lots of Rori’s techniques and tools. When I see me or Mercedes or whomever address her views with similar strong expression, it feels fair to me. I feel sad that you are triggered by this. I feel sorta frustrated too. I feel curious why you feel the need to defend and make others wrong. I also see that I am doing the same thing in my own way. I’ve heard that what triggers us about other people’s behavior are things that we don’t like about ourselves.

    Anyways, I feel a little weird right now. I’m judging myself for rambling.

    In my boy voice, I want to say to you… Erika expresses her opinions in strong ways so why would it trigger you so much when that gets mirrored back to her. She’s a big girl, she doesn’t need you to step in and defend her. Who are you to decide who is right or wrong? I want to hear about your feelings. I want to hear you process why you are so triggered…within yourself. I feel pissed hearing you make others wrong.

    And as I type that I feel icky and weird and gross and scared that I will offend you or start a fight. I see you as a gentle soul and I don’t want to hurt you.

    So this is a great lesson for me as to how feeling messages are so much more responsible and how happy I am that I found them. And I do see all this as a mirror and as I go into my life I will be aware of how I try to control others.

    This has been a great learning lesson for me. I feel grateful for that.

    And as I say that, I feel icky and weird

  346.  #346Katarina Phang on August 12, 2010 at 9:40 pm

    This is a great discussion and I enjoyed Erika’s outlook and posts even though I find her personal choice not to have sex unless marriage is promised somewhat questionable. And I have the same question Rori asked.

    I doubt there are many men who would put up being “threatened” to ever desire sex at all with a woman he likes unless he promises her a ring. That’s not a healthy approach to relationship, IMHO. Sex is a very important aspect of a relationship and for men -as well as women, of course- a vehicle for bonding and deepening the connection.

    It comes to personal values and choice, of course. I won’t advice it to my clients. Enjoy sex, it’s a part of a full human experience. It’s beautiful.

    I find Mercedes’s POV very interesting too, if somewhat harsh. 🙂 I think we all have our own insecurities issues we’re trying to deal with or disguise. I think Erica continues to speak to the guy because he expressed his regret for canceling the trip. But I can see where she’s coming from with most of what she says and she’s entitled to express her honest opinion and it makes the discussion the merrier.

  347.  #347Melissa on August 12, 2010 at 9:56 pm

    “It would feel so good to feel reliable, steady support and care from all the Sirens to all the Sirens. How do you feel about that?”
    That WOULD feel wonderful!
    I was feeling very anxious today. I had to sit behind Mr. Imaginary (as I shall now call him) at a work meeting today & actually saw him showing pictures of the “scam girl” to his buddy next to him! It made me feel so horrible, but it also made me feel angry, not just at him, but at the person behind the scam that his toying with the emotions of someone I care about! Also, that those pics are of some most likely innocent girl who has no idea her photos are being used in such a way infuriates me!
    I felt better when my CD1 sent me a message to confirm a time for our date tomorrow (which he asked me for on Tuesday:)) I feel very relaxed around him mostly, but it’s hard not to let go of all the anxiety that is leftover from MR. Imaginary.
    I still struggle at trying to “quick-shift” into siren mode when he (Imaginary) walks by me at work or says hello & really want to prepare myself to talk to him when he does approach me & wants to converse.
    I want to “be an invitation”, but whenever he’s near, I freeze! I have been going to sleep every night to Rori’s DVDs hoping that my subconscious will also pick up the messages, but I’m fearful that I won’t be ready when the time comes… wait… I can tell him that, right?

    “I feel uncomfortable right now, so having this conversation doesn’t work for me. I would feel better if you waited, what do you think?”
    maybe add, “It would feel good to hear what you have to say to me, though. If you’d like to send me an email, then I can feel more relaxed & not misinterpret your words. Otherwise, it will just have to wait until another time.”

    How does that sound? Gah! I feel dizzy.
    Up Down Up Down Turn-Around…It’s like a line-dance from hell!
    Please help me Sirens! 🙁

  348.  #348Laughing goddess on August 12, 2010 at 10:34 pm

    Melissa: I love your feeling messages! I’m imagining how stunned he will be when he hears that. And I feeling amused as I imagine how he will probably be attracted to you. Not that any of these thoughts about what his experience is matter….

    So I’ll redirected my focus to my feelings… I feel excited reading your post. It feels so great to readin about a goddess using the tools and feeling how feminine her vibe is. It makes me feel inspired. Thanks!

  349.  #349Laughing goddess on August 12, 2010 at 10:42 pm

    “It would feel so good to feel reliable, steady support and care from all the Sirens to all the Sirens. How do you feel about that?”

    Yes, I feel that happening here pretty much all of the time. Sometimes in direct, obvious ways and sometimes in more challenging ways. I feel good about the balance. I know that some of my greatest growth has come from being challenged and I feel respectful of people who are willing to take a risk and say how they feel even if it isn’t always what I think I want to hear. I feel strong and capable of handling other peoples opinions. I live myself and I accept myself.

    Ha ha! And I also feel laughter because I am saying this now but I imagine that I will feel triggered many more times in my life. But yes, that’s okay. It feels irrelevant. All that really matters is my relationship to spirit. When I feel connected none of that matters. Ahhh, sweet relief.

  350.  #350Ankita on August 12, 2010 at 11:02 pm

    Brenda and lizzie

    I feel like echoing this, “I want a man who cares about making me happy, not making me hurt.”, that’s all i want too…..

    yes, I know I need to work through this, I feel like I have several issues with me which are buried and I didn’t treat them up with time, and now they are cropping up and making my life and everything miserable….
    I need to work through jealousy…..
    We have openness too, we talk about sex and other things.. We watch porn together too….
    Whenever he does masturbate during the day or evening, he tells me at night….

    But deep down, i have a fear of “abandonment”….. that’s my issue perhaps…… i feel crazy, but perhaps, that’s what i am afraid of…..

  351.  #351Melissa on August 12, 2010 at 11:29 pm

    Something I wrote awhile ago that I just found on my computer.

    This man I love with all my heart, cannot requite.
    I could fall into deep despair only to spite
    myself for for falling so deeply or
    for falling into bad habits, but
    I will rejoice in yet another lesson learned
    Another opportunity to change my world.
    He may see me and be inspired or he may look away
    but I know this and it is truth,
    Tomorrow is a whole day away.
    I will live this moment and celebrate this day and as for tomorrow…
    Let come what may.

    I guess I need to listen to myself!

  352.  #352Lisa on August 13, 2010 at 3:48 am

    I would like an opinion. This long distance guy contacted me on facebook chat and in the conversation in telling me about how things were going on the road (plays in a band) at a big event time in the town they played in he said:
    “There were 3 women in the same hotel down the way and they partied with us. (he told me about their jobs one an international flight attendant, one had written for the Wall Street Journal and one was married to an ex pro football player) “It was nothing sexual, no pressure, just a good time. And they loved us (the band’s music).”

    I don’t know why he told me that as we hadn’t prior been in touch for quite some time as I was letting me contact me first and we aren’t committed. I believe it was just partying, but why was he telling me that? Possibly feeling me out to see what I would share? I had nothing to share about any men so I just said Lol. Then he pulled the thing about where he drove by my town on his way to Vegas to play. Uhh I thought, you and everyone else who drives I-70 there. Again I just said lol. I was just pretty distant the whole conversation. Then the following week out of the blue he texted me again, and that he had not done in months. Again I was distant and kept it short and then I got the feeling I did not have his undivided attention so I said I had to get back to finishing my work. Any thoughts?

  353.  #353Lisa on August 13, 2010 at 3:50 am

    Oh and it isn’t as if he doesn’t party with other women on the road, so I just don’t get him talking about this particular with those 3 women. Plus there were pics on facebook but they had been female bartenders or friends who came to see them from out of town.

  354.  #354Mercedes on August 13, 2010 at 6:29 am

    Good morning! Laughing Goddess….You are BEAUTIFUL in your voice! Thank you so much! Your words mean a lot to me and I really appreciate the directness. You are correct, Erika and I have challenged each other a LOT…so have Rori and I…so have Tinque and I. None of it matters except that we all still get along professionally and some of us do very well together personally too. As you stated above, even you and I have been triggered here, had words and everything turned out beautifully. I think once people start to show respect for other voices (regardless if they agree with that voice or not) everything feels very peaceful and wonderful.

    Brenda: I don’t really have any additional words for you to explain where I am coming from so I’m finished trying – never really wanted to try in the first place…just wanted Erika to know what I thought but I felt baited and I’m generally up for a challenge. Today, I don’t want the challenge. My J is home, we have our lives back on balance with just the two of us being home again, I feel peace and love and happiness surrounding my personal life and I don’t feel up to rising to the anxiety level you seem to want me at. My entire reason for coming back to this blog was to check in with old friends, meet new ones and see if everything resonated with me or if I wanted to throw out another way of looking at something. I threw something out and…

    I would like to challenge you though Brenda to take a look back at this dialog between the two of us and to ask yourself this question: When someone speaks to me in a masculine voice and I disagree with their opinion, do I always argue and try to trap them and make them change their mind so they do and see things my way, or do I generally sink more in to my own femininity and allow their thoughts and ideas to be theirs and mine to be mine?

    And possibly, if you can, think back to times with Bill or with your ex where they said something that challenged you to debate because you didn’t agree. Did you win the debate based on logic and reasoning? Do you feel attractive for being a woman when that happens or do you feel powerful in a masculine way? Do you think it makes a man feel powerfully connected to you on an emotional level or do you think he simply admires your ability to logically debate with him?

    I ask this because I am much the same way, especially in my professional life. In my personal life, I go back and forth between being able to melt like butter in J’s arms and being able to win any debate with logic. He admires that and loves me for it, but…it also frustrates him. He told me only a week ago “there’s no point in debating anything with you so I don’t”. That doesn’t sound like he was exactly attracted to me at the time now does it? That piece, I’m working on. I’ll never give up my voice. I will never give up my ability and desire to speak my mind when I disagree…but…I am working on my ability to be feminine (in my personally life only) when I disagree and the subject has nothing to do with me (or wasn’t directed at me). Same goes for when I disagree and the subject doesn’t matter. Even when I am arguing simply because I have a logical answer to couteract what I just heard. I am working on that…I am working hard at it…and that is why I am not going to continue to debate Erika’s words with you.

    I do suggest, if you really do want the answers to your questions about what I disagree with in regard to Erika’s teaching style, you check out her blog and mine. You will see the differences. They are huge. But in the end, she and I both want others around us to have what Rori wants and what Tinque (another HIGHLY recommended blog) wants and what all dating/relationship/lifestyle coaches want…that is for everyone to have happiness, peace and love in their lives…with or without a partner and for each of us to be self confident, strong and loving to ourselves first and other next.

    Much Love,

  355.  #355tinque on August 13, 2010 at 6:30 am

    Laughing goddess and Brenda – Since what you were talking about ties in with what I want to say, I will address you together.
    I wrote an article last year? which Rori re-posted here about porn in particular where I suggested sharing it with your man especially if it bothers you for reasons irrelevant here.
    A bit of a firestorm ensued, but what came out of it is this, and this is from Rori directly and I couldn’t agree more. I will paraphrase.
    No man worth his salt will agree to wait for sex until marriage.
    I’m not suggesting jumping into bed with anyone who remotely appeals to you unless YOU are okay with that and can handle it.
    For most of us, the emotional attachment that usually develops is too much to keep sex casual.
    But once you feel a level of comfort and safety, chemistry and feelings for a man, and when this is only you will know, then what more beautiful, better feeling thing is there to do to express your feelings as well as fill other needs and desires, even if it’s only horniness.
    You might err in judgment. So what. This may also be “the one” and without experiencing the WHOLE package, and I don’t mean his peepee though that is most definitely included, you really won’t know.
    A lot can be learned about a man by having sex just once with him. A lot can be learned about yourself too.
    And it feels really, really good, one of the few PURE joys we get to have in life.

  356.  #356Jilly on August 13, 2010 at 6:54 am

    tinque…I like that…”alot can be learned about a man by having sex just once”

  357.  #357Brenda on August 13, 2010 at 7:51 am

    Laughing Goddess, RE: #343

    I appreciate your candor, and no, I don’t feel angry at all. As I said, this is a mere discussion to me, and I am open to all you all have to say.

    You said I am making M wrong…I was practicing feeling messages. I stated my feelings, to the best of my ability. So if that is interpreted as making her wrong, I guess I am going to let the chips fall where they may. I am going with Rori’s assertion that there is nothing wrong with stating our feelings.

    On the other hand, the source of my issue is that I believe M is making E wrong. If I were E, I would feel attacked at the very core of my identity. Am I defending E? No, not really. I liked what she said a lot, but no, I don’t feel a need to defend her. I am stating my feelings, and my underlying truth is, like you, it would feel good if this Island were consistently an oasis of positivity.

    I could write more, but I am trying to behave better at work…

  358.  #358Brenda on August 13, 2010 at 8:01 am

    Ankita, RE: #347 – You said, “But deep down, i have a fear of “abandonment”….. ”

    I was thinking bout you last night…I see me in you very much, 10-20 years ago…and I think that is why I feel so strongly protective of you. I don’t want you to fall into the same horrible canyons I fell into. It’s taken me so, so many years to climb back out. 🙁

    I, also, had and struggle with a fear of abandonment. I always thought, “Why do all the good things in my life have to end??? I want them to go on and on! I have always longed for a man by my side, who I can reach to and lean on when the going gets tuff.

    That is a major reason circular dating didn’t resonate with me AT FIRST. No, no, no, I thought. I can’t stand up on my own. I need a man to lean on. I want my OWN man, and all the love and joy that goes with a committed relationship.

    I disagreed for years with people who said I needed to enter into a romantic relationship out of want, not out of need. They told me marriage is icing on the cake, not the cake itself. I didn’t agree.

    And now I do. I have worked thru many of my neediness issues. I still work on them, every day. But I feel I am in a much healthier space for bringing a man on my bridge.

    Above all, Ankita, I encourage you to follow Rori’s coaching blindly, to circular date, even if it doesn’t feel good at first. I believe this will keep you safe from your neediness while strengthening you inside. You will feel your power as the beautiful, capable woman you really are.

  359.  #359Brenda on August 13, 2010 at 8:04 am

    Melissa, RE: #348 – Thank you so much for sharing your beautiful poem. I know the pain of unrequited love. You are an inspiration.

  360.  #360Brenda on August 13, 2010 at 8:16 am

    Hi Mercedes,

    Thanks for your response. Was I arguing or was I discussing? Arguing has a connotation of anger. Discussing has a connotation of flip-flopping ideas around.

    I believe firmly everyone has a right to believe, feel, and think they way they want to.

    I was asserting my right to feel and think and believe, just as you were asserting your right.

    My intention wasn’t to win a debate. My intention was to share how I felt. I feel totally at peace in controversial discussions to agree to disagree. I feel good when I can share my differing views and still feel accepted…and vice versa.

    I appreciate your challenge to consider whether I am coming from masculine or feminine energy. I will do that. I have been known to take on controversial discussions and come out agreeing with the other person. I really enjoy exploring differing ideas. I really like it when I can hold two differing ideas in my head, and/or two conflicting emotions in my heart. I feel big inside when I do that.

    Thanks for all you said in this response…it sets well with me. I still wanna zumba with you in the lawn! 🙂

    Love and peace,

  361.  #361Brenda on August 13, 2010 at 8:19 am

    Tinque, RE: #352 – “Peepee”

    LOLOLOLOLOLOL! I can’t be laughing out loud! I’m at work!

    Thanks for your input!


  362.  #362Mercedes on August 13, 2010 at 8:50 am

    Brenda: I like your question better than mine. “Thanks for your response. Was I arguing or was I discussing? Arguing has a connotation of anger. Discussing has a connotation of flip-flopping ideas around.”

    Maybe that’s the question you should ask yourself instead…see how you think you come off to others based on your perception of arguing vs discussing and another person’s perception of arguing vs discussing.

    Zumba is every Wednesday 6:30p CST @ Discovery Green Park in Houston, TX. It’s free and open to the public. There are generally a little over a hundred people of all skill levels. I invite each and every one of you to attend…

    Much Love,

  363.  #363AmberS on August 13, 2010 at 8:54 am

    I feel good when I read strong sirens expressing strong feelings. I like the opportunity to see opposing viewpoints being handed back and forth. I don’t feel any lack of respect in the recent exchanges here.

    I feel very strongly that anyone who presents as a coach or teacher would need to be a living example of their beliefs.

    An good example for me would be how Rori posted the ‘never say I love you first’ blog. Her honesty and ability to see herself as a work in progress give me great hope and I feel so much respect for her as an example and a guide.

    I can’t feel good about following the teachings of someone I have a fundamental difference of opinion with. I can certainly appreciate the chance to read and understand their views and there is value in that for me.

    I feel blessed that Rori allows other women here in the role of coaches to comment and express differing views. This gives us the opportunity to find the teacher that resonates for us. An example of this in a different context is – my daughter almost failed chemistry two years ago in HS. She HATED it. Now she’s taking every chem class she can get into in college because she LOVES it. The teachers made all the difference.

    When I read Erika’s posts I realized that I feel like I can easily be swept up into the need to WIN, or to prove myself good enough, or the best. I used to play this out by dating married men, thereby proving that I was worth leaving the wife for. The thing is- all I was proving was that my standards were so low that I would accept men who with low quality and no respect for their commitment. Now they *may* have appeared to be everything wonderful, and they treated me like a queen, but if they were leaving a marriage to be with me- that pretty much says it all, doesn’t it? That’s my junk. But I couldn’t see it that way. So when I read about the 1,000 women and the cancelling the trip etc. I read it as competition. I read it as needing or wanting to win. And I felt myself cringing and becoming small because FOR ME that need to win blocked my ability to clearly see if the man involved was a prize or a putz. That need to win, and the THRILL of the competition and the EGO BOOST of winning kept me from even considering that I was avoiding intimacy and I was all kinds of screwed up. And I read that and felt cold and afraid. Because now- for ME- any guy who has been with 1,000 women is not a prize. Maybe that says I don’t have enough self confidence to handle that. Maybe it says I feel threatened by that. Maybe it says I can’t even begin to understand what that would mean about the guy’s energy and karma.

    And that’s what I LOVE about the fact that she posted it. Because she helped me see all of this in MYSELF. And reading the differing viewpoints helped me see that I was not alone in everything I felt.

    Whatever is true for Erika is true for her. That’s her journey.

    I feel the tension between the viewpoints and I feel the precise, strong and carefully worded posts as signs of respect between sirens who are dedicated to being their true selves and helping each other (and us) grow. I look forward to being strong enough to have strong sirens help me find my limitations. I love the support here, but I’m here to grow and learn. For me that happens when my old, limiting beliefs are exposed and I am challenged to find new ways of being.

    I feel grateful that these posts are here to help me see myself better. I can sit at my desk and feel all of this and express it in words.

  364.  #364Mercedes on August 13, 2010 at 9:04 am

    AmberS: I loved your entire post but this was the absolute BEST line…it says SO much!

    “I can’t feel good about following the teachings of someone I have a fundamental difference of opinion with. I can certainly appreciate the chance to read and understand their views and there is value in that for me.”

    I feel exactly the same way. I would only add that I very often also feel a strong pull to ask questions and/or point out “flaws in their story” (for lack of a better phrase) to either help them see another point of view, help others see another point of view or even to save others from following something they don’t fully understand.

    My own opinions aside, I simply wanted to say that was one of the most insightful posts on seen on this thread. Thank you.

    Much Love,

  365.  #365Laughing goddess on August 13, 2010 at 9:22 am

    My friends, I have a very busy day today and I just wanted to pop in and say I do appreciate every single one of you. I appreciate the openness and discussion and I feel growth within myself through this discussion. Amber, I feel much admiration for the way you expressed yourself. Brenda, I appreciate your consistent kindness even though we sometimes disagree. Your voice feels honorable and noble. Mercedes, I appreciate your willingness to express yourself even if it may challenge others. Tinque, same for you. I feel excited to read the post you wrote. And Erika, I feel appreciative of your perspective as well.

    All in all, I feel touched to see goddesses with different viewpoint expressing themselves in constructive and building ways. I feel really touched.

    Now off to my busy day. I feel hopeful that I can hold a space of calm and peace within the chaos. And I look forward to later this weekend when my life will calm down a bit and I can melt and relax.


  366.  #366dorothea on August 13, 2010 at 9:31 am

    Erika and her lifestyle and her job are all pretty “out there.” So first of all it is hard for those of us in more vanilla lives to relate.

    Secondly, Erika has yet to acquire what she ultimately wants, but has such conviction in her approaches as they transform or do a 180. So as she goes through stages in tweaking her attitudes or beliefs or behaviors in terms of getting what she ultimately wants with One Man, she preaches about it from a place of authority. An unfounded authority.

    This always rubbed me the wrong way. Like, “you’re no better or successful in love than the rest of us, but you sure do act like the authority here.”

    Buuut I guess she has a coach’s personality, which is why she is in the right line of work!

  367.  #367Brenda on August 13, 2010 at 9:32 am

    LG, That was beautiful. Thank you!


  368.  #368Brenda on August 13, 2010 at 9:36 am

    I like to disagree with no tension, in an absolutely accepting, relaxed atmosphere! 🙂

    I feel happy and relaxed today.

  369.  #369Simply Shannon Take II on August 13, 2010 at 10:32 pm

    I feel triggered!!!!

    I feel very defensive reading the posts here. I felt good reading how Erika handled the situation. I understand partly the objections. (I had the same knee jerk reaction to the cancellation of his flight.) But this is Erika. She knows what she can handle. She’s a big girl. I feel shocked by some of the posts. Coach or not, I feel completely deflated, especially after I felt so good about how Erika handled things. For me, it’s not so much what actually happened as her vibe about the whole thing.

    I don’t get it. Why jump on how someone handled a situation when they feel GOOD about it? It would be different if I came on here saying “I feel like shit. I don’t know what to do. Can someone help?”

    I don’t have any formal training as a coach other than my experiences and the things I’ve personally learned, but doesn’t it typically go that what triggers me about a post is typically something within me? Aka, it’s got nothing to do with Erika’s situation. It’s got everything to do with me.

    It feels completely unfair to say that someone isn’t a valid coach simply because she doesn’t have some holy grail, like a relationship. Is the point to have a man or to be happy?

    So am I to discount everything that’s said here because those who say it aren’t married or in committed relationships? That’d pretty much be true of any advice given on this blog by anyone other than Rori. Yet we ALL still do it (coach or not).

    This feels hypocritical, very much the pot calling the kettle black.

  370.  #370Simply Shannon on August 13, 2010 at 11:18 pm

    I feel angry. I want to heal this God.

    The above post/trigger is me channeling my parents. I’m only recently able to tell my mother when I feel angry and defensive because of things she says to me. Things she has NO right to say because a) it’s none of her business and b) her words are soooo hypocritical.

    I’m also channeling the whole “I feel defensive of those being picked on or blasted”. I want to be the defender I never felt I had. (Not that Erika needs it at all. It’s just my reaction.)

    The thing is if I’m really honest, I feel distrustful of Mercedes and Tinque’s advice because of their past relationships. I’ve got experience with both cheating and porn and because of their history, I feel distrustful, like rolling my eyes and sarcastic when I hear how well their relationships are going.

    The irony is that means I don’t trust myself. That I don’t really believe that I’ll have a relationship which won’t include cheating or porn. And that sucks.

    And I’m sorry Mercedes and Tinque for my judgments against you. A lot of what you says resonates with me so much. I know you’re both happy in your relationships and have worked really hard to get there. I think that might be why I have such a hard time believing the happiness is real. I gave up and maybe a part of me believes I failed.

    I want this healed God.

    Phew. I feel a little less triggered right now.

  371.  #371Daria on August 13, 2010 at 11:58 pm

    Thanks Simply Shannon – that was very freeing. i feel opened up. i feel safer to express more of me.

  372.  #372Rori Raye on August 14, 2010 at 2:02 am

    Shannon – Hi – thank you for these deep and lovely comments – I wrote something for you – scheduled for the 22nd…Love, Rori

  373.  #373Rori Raye on August 14, 2010 at 2:16 am

    This is fabulous – thank you all for your honesty, brilliance and heart – we’ve all got ego, we all want to win, we all are afraid…and I say “so what?” We’re each of us so different, so unique, so special – with totally unique paths and journeys and lives to live – what I hope for most in any situation, or reading anything, or hearing anything – what I want most to take from anyone else’s story and words and wisdom is – inspiration. Anyone inching toward happiness (or away from happiness) is my teacher. Love, Rori

  374.  #374Mercedes on August 14, 2010 at 9:47 am

    Anyone want a feeling message from me?

    I feel confused.

    I feel confused about how, because I have been cheated on, my advice shouldn’t be trusted. I feel confused about when exactly it was that I said everything Erika says should be discounted. I feel confused about when I said everything said here should be discounted because the people saying it aren’t in committed relationships. I feel confused about what makes anyone think Rori is the only one here in a committed relationship. I feel confused about how my suggestion that another siren visit Erika’s blog seems to have been overlooked. I feel confused about how the fact that I disagree with Erika (ooh…SHOCKER…THAT’S never happened before! Erika agrees with EVERYTHING I’ve ever said too!) got so blown out of proportion. I feel confused about why I’m supposed to agree with Erika or at least keep my mouth shut if I don’t. I feel confused about why, when someone says they are feeling peace and love and happiness right now that women on this blog want to destroy that for them (jealousy??).

    I feel confused about why someone who has sought out my advice in the past would say they mistrust my advice. I feel curious about why they ever asked for my help. Maybe because rolling their eyes at me is fun? Not sure…

    I feel a desire to clear one thing up though. I did not work hard to get my relationship where it is after the cheating. I walked away. I did absolutely NOTHING other than tell J I never wanted to see him again. HE did all the rest. HE worked hard…very, very hard so that he could have the woman he loves, his best friend, back in his life. I never worked hard to get him back or to get him to stop seeing another woman and I would NEVER advise ANYONE to do that either. If we are going to use my relationship as an example of why someone should mistrust me or as an example of why I have no right to speak out against advice I disagree with, please, let’s either let me be the one to use it or, at the very least, get the facts straight.

  375.  #375Mercedes on August 14, 2010 at 9:55 am

    Oh…one other thing that I feel confused about…

    I feel confused about how someone can blast me for disagreeing with Erika’s advice and in the same post disagree with my own advice.

    Maybe there’s more that one instance of pot calling the kettle black here?

    Rori…can you please provide a spot on this blog where we can click to have access to a mirror?

  376.  #376Katarina Phang on August 14, 2010 at 10:58 am

    Let me repost my first post in this forum (got swamped due to awaiting moderation):

    “This is a great discussion and I enjoyed Erika’s outlook and posts even though I find her personal choice not to have sex unless marriage is promised somewhat questionable. And I have the same question Rori asked.

    I doubt there are many men who would put up being “threatened” to ever desire sex at all with a woman he likes unless he promises her a ring. That’s not a healthy approach to relationship, IMHO. Sex is a very important aspect of a relationship and for men -as well as women, of course- a vehicle for bonding and deepening the connection.

    It comes to personal values and choice, of course. I won’t advice it to my clients. Enjoy sex, it’s a part of a full human experience. It’s beautiful.

    I find Mercedes’s POV very interesting too, if somewhat harsh. I think we all have our own insecurities issues we’re trying to deal with or disguise. I think Erica continues to speak to the guy because he expressed his regret for canceling the trip. But I can see where Mercedes is coming from with most of what she says and she’s entitled to express her honest opinion and it makes the discussion the merrier.”

  377.  #377Mercedes on August 14, 2010 at 11:05 am

    Katarina: Thank you…your words are much appreciated…

    Much Love,

  378.  #378Katarina Phang on August 14, 2010 at 11:16 am

    You’re most welcome, Mercedes. Keep voicing your opinions cause I love reading differing voices. I believe what works for one person may necessarily work for others. My experience has been that sex was never a factor why a guy stopped pursuing me (in fact, quite the opposite 🙂 ) and my values allow me to enjoy my sexuality to the fullest (so yes someone’s values will determine much of her sexual preferences and how they may or may not work for them, obviously).

    I’m just wondering why some women find sex outside commitment such a repulsive thing or, at least, not satisfying/fulfilling at all times. I can understand that someone feeling burned after a period of promiscuity and seeks for temporary celibacy. But forever -till marriage-? That renders sex pretty much one-dimensional, which is very inaccurate. But again, one person’s journey/truth is no one else to judge. Just thinking out loud here.

  379.  #379Mercedes on August 14, 2010 at 12:27 pm

    Katarina: I am one of those women who find sex outside of commitment unfulfilling. But that commitment doesn’t have to be marriage for me…I just need it to be with someone I love in order to fully enjoy it.

    It’s not that I would necessarily wait for love to have sex (my past indicates that isn’t true at all) but I don’t feel the level of intimacy during sex without a high level of intmiacy outside of sex and I don’t feel intimacy at all with a man I’m not commited to.

    Once I was able to experience sex with full intimacy with a man who knows my thoughts, my fears, my dreams, everything…he knows me intimately in the very heart of my being…everything changed for me. This level makes sex beyond anything I ever imagined (and it wasn’t that way with this same man prior to finding the intimacy with him). Before all this, I felt my body fulfilled…body only…it never was a great sense of fulfillment for me without the rest of it.

    Everyone is different though…everyone has their own journey to fulfillment. I think sometimes too a simple fear of abandonment will make someone require marriage before sex. It feels, with marriage, that they can’t leave you now so you can open your body to them. Unfortunately, it doesn’t work that way, but if it makes someone feel better to offer their body only to their husband then I can support that. I can’t practice it, but I can support it.

    Much Love,

  380.  #380Lucy on August 14, 2010 at 12:29 pm

    Rori, thank you so much for #373 — I feel so great reading that — I feel relieved to hear you say what I was thinking and feeling too — I agree completely. <3

  381.  #381Earth Goddess on August 14, 2010 at 12:48 pm

    Thank you all for your lively debate. I have found some ideas that I need to reflect on.

  382.  #382Simply Shannon on August 14, 2010 at 1:22 pm

    Mercedes: Wow! Did I hit a nerve or what? I love your voice. I love your fire. And yet sometimes I don’t agree with what you say or how you say it. (I have some of the same feelings about Rori occasionally.) I don’t want to defend myself. I feel good about coming out with my truth. I’m not looking to burn bridges here. That’s why I apologized. It’s not really your words specifically. The judgments and distrust I feel are mirrors for myself. You are absolutely right.

    I feel curious if you’ve considered the same is true for you. In other words, what’s the mirror you see in your words to Erika? Since you knew going in she wouldn’t agree with you (shocker is about right), then why make the effort? What triggered you to post?

    I appreciate your advice Mercedes. I’ve sought it often, which is apparent all throughout your blog and here within Rori’s blog. I don’t want my words to be confused. I take from you the advice that suits me just like I do with anyone else here. Do I feel a tinge of “yeah right” sometimes when you come across in a complete masculine coach voice? Yes. But that’s ME hearing those nasty voices in my head that judge MYSELF for having come from a marriage where my man cheated on me. Since I see enough of myself in your story, I judge myself. Does that make sense?

    Just like you said to Erika when you posted “Not sure why but I feel a bit uncomfortable commenting on your situation…but then I guess you probably wouldn’t post it here if you weren’t looking for comments so…here goes…” I feel exactly the same way.

    Rori: I’m looking forward to that post on the 22nd. I would like this healed please!!

    Blessings and love, Shannon

  383.  #383Mercedes on August 14, 2010 at 1:54 pm

    SS: You took the most painful, most vulnerable, most difficult piece of my story…a story I chose to share with everyone here…and story you youself have experience with (which makes you well aware of the pain) and you used it as a reason for “rolling your eyes” at me. That is absolutely the most hurtful thing anyone on this blog has ever done to me.

    I was prompted to post because, as I said, I have a different viewpoint than Erika about a man who refuses to see you unless you will have sex with him. I wanted to put my perspective out there as well. Just another way of looking at it. That’s all there was to it. Then BAM!

    And no matter how many times I repeated that I was simply disagreeing with Erika’s take on his potential to marry her…nothing more…just disagreeing with it you still chose to go right to my heart with a very painful piece of my past.


  384.  #384Apple Jacks on August 14, 2010 at 1:57 pm

    Wow, thank you Simply Shannon for what you said. I wasn’t able to express it as I was massively triggered. I very much enjoyed Erika’s posts because it was a very different take on the same point of view, and an example of a unique, individaul take of one particular individual siren. I didn’t agree with her on sex before marriage (I actually agree with tinque and loved how she expressed herself), but I clearly got that that was about HER and not imposing it on anyone else. Isn’t that what Rori teaches? Stick to YOUR boundaries and don’t let up? I felt she did and practices that to a T in her personal life and coaching.

    I felt confused at the firestorm against her from some. I didn’t feel good reading that she was an insecure woman underneath. That felt BAD to read. Reall, really bad. Even though I don’t feel the way Erika does, the last thing I got was that she was insecure. She’s firm in her conviction and I feel that alone is a factor for a good coach, just like Rori but with a slightly different take and voice. Just my opinion. I get triggered when different voices and ways of expression are considered somehow less than, be it on here or anywhere else. I didn’t get that Erika did that.

    I also want to make clear that what I said in this post is about ME. I just felt compelled to express myself. I know I’m not good at being in my girl voice just yet, but I am not interested in arguing with anyone. This was just how I felt and it feels wonderful that Shannon was able to say it in a way I could not. She’s inspired me to keep practicing Rori’s tools and i thank her for this.:) Time to move on, apple jacks.

  385.  #385Daria on August 14, 2010 at 2:09 pm

    I feel troubled reading this Mercedes.

    Simply Shannon was sharing her feelings. she FELT like rolling her eyes, she felt mistrustful. These are her triggers… it’s not about YOU its about HER and she made that clear that because of that shared part of her past, a certain part of her feels mistrustful.

    I don’t think she’s Choosing to roll her eyes at you, yet she’s sharing how she feels inside, which is vulnerable

    i feel surprised that you feel triggered by this and see it as an attack on you personally – especially when she made it clear she also feels love for you and respect.

  386.  #386Mercedes on August 14, 2010 at 2:25 pm

    Daria: I can understand where you are coming from but using feeling messages to bring up the most painful part of someone else’s story is so wrong. I know that we’re supposed to be okay with it because it is in the form of a feeling message, but for me (a masculine voice) that just doesn’t work. If someone uses my history against me – by using feeling messages or not – it is painful. Anyone who has ever been cheated on doesn’t need to hear how they make another “feel distrust” because of it.

    If I took a painful part of a story SS chose to share with everyone here and I told her I felt like rolling my eyes at her because of her “past” relationship..well…I doubt the feeling message would be able to cover up the pain for her either.

    Much Love,

  387.  #387Simply Shannon on August 14, 2010 at 2:36 pm

    Mercedes: Ok. I feel surprised. If that’s how my words were interpreted, then I would like to address that. I feel confused that you would choose to believe I’m rolling my eyes at your painful past.

    I don’t feel distrustful of what you’ve experienced. I’ve had the SAME experience. I know it was painful because I experienced it too. I even attempted to work things back out with my ex the first time he cheated. I WISH the outcome had been different. I WISH I could believe that a relationship can survive cheating. The fact is that I don’t.

    What I feel about your relationship doesn’t change the reality of your relationship one bit!! This is just my own experience of relationships that has me feeling completely jaded.

    I feel compassion. I don’t want to fight with you. I disagree with you but I still feel love for you. I hope something in this resonates. I feel open to discussing this with you further if that feels helpful.

  388.  #388Daria on August 14, 2010 at 2:42 pm

    Mercedes- you are right. You have every right to feel trigerred… I just felt surprised that u did and I can totally understand how it can be triggered.

    Well Shannon shared her feings and you are sharing your feelings of pain… And I cam feel that.

    I don’t feel good reading accusations upwards Shannon or blaming her for expressing herself because it triggers someone.

    After all that’s not only much of what you practice but also being honest.

    Shannod did not blame you or accuse you of being wrong… She said that her triggers were this. Yet… Along with feelin pulled on by seeing you feel your pain on being triggered… I don’t see the rest of your process user dpome Shannon blinh going on.

    Blaming not blinh

  389.  #389Mercedes on August 14, 2010 at 2:50 pm

    “The thing is if I’m really honest, I feel distrustful of Mercedes and Tinque’s advice because of their past relationships. I’ve got experience with both cheating and porn and because of their history, I feel distrustful, like rolling my eyes and sarcastic when I hear how well their relationships are going.”

    Thanks for trying everyone but no…there is no excuse for this…feeling messages or not. We were both discredited because we bared our souls and chose to share our pain with the world in the hopes of helping someone else understand and believe than can overcome.

    I know without a doubt SS that your feelings don’t change the reality of my relationship. My gosh! If I let other people’s words rule my life with J we would have been history 10 minutes in. We are crazy, passionately, soul to soul heart to heart in love with each other…no matter how you feel about it.

  390.  #390dorothea on August 14, 2010 at 2:53 pm

    I wish Mercedes would lay off Shannon and then magically feel better and let it go. How do I express this in a feeling message? Is having wants a boy energy thing? I feel confused!!

  391.  #391Mercedes on August 14, 2010 at 2:59 pm

    Your wish is my command. Officially laying off

  392.  #392dorothea on August 14, 2010 at 3:01 pm

    Woah, magic genie. I feel giggly and delightfully shocked at this magic. Thank you Mercedes.

  393.  #393Melissa on August 14, 2010 at 3:03 pm

    Any advice on whether or not I should bother with this or how I can change it up? He is feeling lonely & wanting to suck me back in, but only as a friend. Should I practice this as a speech or do you think it would be effective as an email? Please give me some feedback. I am feeling guilty, thinking about this when I’m out on other dates!

    “Dear Mr. Imaginary,
    I feel sad and angry that I can’t be close to you. I don’t want to be that way. It doesn’t feel good. I walk away from you at work because I don’t want to feel bad and attack you. I want to feel relaxed and comfortable, but to feel that way, I must feel loved and respected. I don’t want to make you feel pushed or to seem needy and desperate. I want to share my amazing self and my life with someone who knows that I am the only woman they need. I feel stuck. I want to move on. I feel I need to detach from you to do that and it makes me feel hurt and afraid.
    It felt so wonderful when you were close to me, but when I felt you pull away, I felt abandoned and used and that feels crappy. It felt good to laugh with you and play games and do puzzles and I felt really special. I feel lonely now and am ready to find my Happy Ever After. I feel so disappointed that it isn’t you.
    I want to be able to be your friend, but it just feels too yucky right now because my heart still wants to reach out for you and I need to keep it in myself. I don’t just want the scraps of your attention.”

  394.  #394Erika Awakening on August 14, 2010 at 3:03 pm

    @Cynthia, if you click on my name on these threads, it will link you to my website.

    I dropped back by because someone sent me an email to alert me to “negativity” here …

    Synchronicity or no, Vegas Guy and I happen to be in a conversation today that’s been very revealing about HIS limiting beliefs … the kind of beliefs that no doubt would have sabotaged our relationship had I rushed into sex with him. One of the things I like about waiting is how very much I learn about a man before I invest myself at that level … and how centered I can be in talking about this with him.

    I read a bunch of posts, and I appreciate so many Sirens expressing in favor of openness to all views here. Honestly, I didn’t get all the way up to the post that apparently sparked so much controversy.

    Am I still growing? Every single day. I use every single experience to improve my own life and my coaching system.

    Am I a perfected final product? No.

    Do my clients *consistently* experience miracles after their sessions with me? Yes, all the time.

    Do they keep coming back for more sessions? Yes. I had two past clients who already completed my 15-week Miracle course just sign up for another 5 sessions each, just today. To me, there is no better testimonial to the effectiveness of a coach than repeat business.

    I deeply appreciate those of you who have expressed to me that my posts here were helpful to you. This is my life passion, and hearing your feedback keeps me feeling motivated to keep offering my very best to the world. So thank you, all of you 🙂

  395.  #395Jasmine on August 14, 2010 at 3:11 pm


    I feel sad that you feel attacked. I don’t think anyone here intended to attack you. I can tell you feel angry. I get angry too, and I tend to operate out of my masculine energy when I do.

    Is it possible that what you perceive as nastiness and masculine energy in other Sirens here is a mirror?

    Hugs, Jasmine

  396.  #396sia on August 14, 2010 at 3:25 pm

    hello mercedes, i love to read from you again!

    I am sorry that you feel bad after reading from simply shannon. I also feel sorry that ss induced these bad feelings, i feel sure she did not mean to.
    What ss wrote, feels harsh to me. What you wrote about erika, feels very harsh to me too (never mind that rolling eyes and details from the past were not mentioned). Did you intend it? It still resonated with me but only after I got over initial shock.
    Maybe your post in your voice also influenced the voices of following posts – that is how it seemed to me.
    I feel confident that if the same things were written by Rori, it would go down easier, because her language can be just so soft and angelic – what do you think?
    I still believe neither you nor shannon intended to hurt, intention counts too, no? I suppose you get heavier comeback than other sirens because you are a coach..
    well however it happened, with good, neutral or bad intention, i feel sad that you do not feel good! i would feel the same xx

  397.  #397Mercedes on August 14, 2010 at 3:32 pm

    Jasmine and Sia: Thank you for your words. Unfortunately, it is impossible for me to answer your questions…but I appreciate your voices very, very much.

    Much Love,

  398.  #398Nikita on August 14, 2010 at 4:23 pm

    What feels interesting for me to note is how forgiveness plays into the relationships of a previous infidelity, a porn perspective and allowing sex to take a backseat to intimacy and connection. All three women seem to agree because they practice forgiveness in their relating with the current men in their lives….everything else is ……well it just feels fluffy to me 🙂

  399.  #399Nikita on August 14, 2010 at 4:24 pm

    But I just got a new pet so everything feels fluffy 🙂

  400.  #400Simply Shannon on August 14, 2010 at 5:58 pm

    I feel frustrated and confused. I’m not really sure what to say. Explaining doesn’t seem to be working but I feel weird, like I’ve just been written off forever for telling the truth out loud (rather than secretly thinking it). And that sucks.

    Anyone got any ideas, or is it best for me to shut my mouth? I don’t really know what else to say. I feel frustrated.

    Actually no. I’ll just say this.

    Mercedes, I’m sorry.

    Tinque, I’m sorry.

  401.  #401Cynthia on August 14, 2010 at 6:32 pm

    Hi Ladies,
    I just logged on yesterday, and signed up for further comments ‘alerts’ … however, I do find it to be ‘too much’ in my ‘inbox’ @ my personal email. How do I disengage in being contacted to further updates of this site coming to my personal email?
    Thanks kindly for advice, you are all such an education.
    Brightest Blessings to One and All – With Love, Cynthia

  402.  #402Brenda on August 14, 2010 at 7:39 pm


    I know the feeling. Like when you give a sincere apology and someone throws it back in your face, saying, “I don’t know what that means.”

    Sometimes you just have to sadly walk away.

    You didn’t mean any harm. I appreciate what you said. I felt a lot of soft clarification in what Lucy said in the Power of Pause thread. I didn’t mean any harm either.

    Write the bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble.


  403.  #403Brenda on August 14, 2010 at 7:46 pm


    As far as I know, just grin and bear it for a couple days. This, too, shall pass! 🙂 The lava estrogen anger will stop flowing and this end of the island will be calm again. ! 🙂

  404.  #404Brenda on August 14, 2010 at 7:55 pm

    Shannnon, P.S. Like Rori says, you state your feelings and you are not responsible for how anyone reacts to your feelings. You were not out to hurt anyone. It was a misunderstanding in my perception. Although you didn’t intend to hurt her, she felt hurt. So it is admirable that you apologized to her. Now just let it go, like Rori’s dropping the ball and chain tool.

  405.  #405Brenda on August 14, 2010 at 8:00 pm

    I just see each of you on here as a sister.

    I am not perfect but I do my best, and I am in process. It would feel so good to be like sisters always. Every healthy relationship has disagreements, and I like it when disagreements leave us more connected and with deeper compassion and understanding for each other.

    I especially like what Rori wrote,

    “My teachers are those who lead me to deeper happiness.”

    That’s a healthy focus.

  406.  #406Erika Awakening on August 15, 2010 at 12:13 am

    I wanted to report in … especially after what I saw on here earlier today …

    that Vegas Guy just proposed to me … 🙂

  407.  #407Lucy on August 15, 2010 at 12:19 am

    woohoo erika!!! congratulations, that is so wonderful! did you say yes??? <3 Lucy

  408.  #408Erika Awakening on August 15, 2010 at 12:26 am

    I’ve received a lot of proposals.

    This the first one I’m considering saying yes to … 🙂

  409.  #409Brenda on August 15, 2010 at 7:36 am



    That’s awesome!

  410.  #410Nikita on August 15, 2010 at 8:43 am

    thanks for the update. I feel tickled and excited seeing this blossom and unfold. Happy Sunday 🙂

  411.  #411Laughing goddess on August 15, 2010 at 9:22 am

    I feel mistrustful. I feel doubtful. I feel scared I am being manipulated. I feel scared I am being lied to. I feel scared my emotions are being pulled on. I feel mistrustful. I don’t want to be manipulated. I feel scared of being lied to.

    I feel strong. I feel trusting of my own guidance system. I feel trusting of my own gut instinct. I feel scared of “mirrors”.

    I feel distrustful and I am judging myself for that.

    I don’t want to feel bad. I want to focus my energies on appreciating the wonderful things I have in my life.

    I want to feel supported and honored and loved. I want to feel cheered on. I want to be seen. I don’t want to be on the sidelines of someone else’s story. I want to feel valued and gotten.

    I don’t want to be manipulated.

    I feel safe now. I feel believing that I won’t let myself be manipulated. I feel trusting that I will never again but myself down in favor of an “authority”.

    I feel trustful that I will never abandon myself. I feel okay with letting others follow their own path while I stay on my bridge. I feel a knowing that we are all on our own path of journey and discovering. I value myself. I feel confident I will always have my own back.

    I feel hopeful that when I see something that doesn’t feel good, I can gently redirect my focus towards feeling good. Just like a horse wears blinders so they can focus on the race, I want to wear blinders so I can focus on my path to happily ever after…not happily ever after as in I’m gonna find a man and then I’ll be happy but happily ever after as in, I’m finding myself.

    I feel grateful that I no longer will abandon myself for the authority of another. I feel grateful that I feel important to me. I feel grateful that I am gaining awareness. I feel grateful for this place to process my triggers. I vote for me. I believe in myself. I see me.

    That feels good.

  412.  #412Erika Awakening on August 15, 2010 at 9:39 am

    Thanks, you know this morning I realized with the house buying metaphor you could also see yourself as the seller and it works just as well …

    Like I’m this amazing house and men come and look at me and I only say yes if they offer me what I really want …

    The main point is … if it’s an important transaction in your life, like buying a house or getting married, you don’t let it get “messy.” You don’t let the people move into the house before the uncertainties are resolved. You don’t let them move in until they’ve put a huge down payment in escrow. If things are allowed to progress in a disorderly way, all it does is create problems.

    This is why having clarity and boundaries is so important. Not “boundaries” to keep other people out, just “boundaries” that help keep the courtship process orderly so both people get what they want.

    I realize this may not sound “romantic,” but actually this approach allows the space for true romance to thrive … not as the main event, but as the flavoring for a mutually satisfying agreement.

  413.  #413Laughing goddess on August 15, 2010 at 9:40 am

    I feel scared to process my triggers here. I feel scared of being attacked. I feel scared of being judged. I feel scared of mirrors.

    I feel scared that even though I’m processing my own triggers, they will be misinterpreted. I don’t want to feel unsafe. I want to feel supported.

    I feel remembering of trying to express my emotions to my mother and being attacked. I felt unimportant and insignificant. I felt small in comparison to her bigness.

    I want my feelings to matter. I don’t want to be squashed. I want to express myself and be supported and heard. I want my voice to be heard.

    I want to heal this feeling of smallness. I don’t want to heal it by exagerating and being over-confident. That feels like the other side of the same coin of low self esteem. I want to continue to be my soft, gentle self while also being strong and believing in myself.

    Soft on the outside, strong on the inside.

    It feels easier to love and believe in others. That feels easy. What feels hard is loving and believing in myself.

  414.  #414dorothea on August 15, 2010 at 9:51 am

    Erika, that could be pretty cool. Did he fly over with a ring?

    This isn’t a fake proposal is it?

    I am feeling very suddenly protective of you and I will beat a mofugga’s ass if he’s f*ckin with u.

  415.  #415Erika Awakening on August 15, 2010 at 10:02 am

    Hi Dorothea,

    I’m jumping onto a day full of HBR sessions here so I won’t be able to check in again for a while … but …

    all that fear and skepticism is just yet another thing to apply HBR to …

    The way to get what we want in this world is not to be untrusting … as that is only a self-fulfilling prophecy bringing what we don’t want.

    The way to get what we want is to be clear, firm, and completely trusting … noting all areas of mistrust and erasing them systematically from the subconscious mind …


  416.  #416dorothea on August 15, 2010 at 10:10 am

    um you did not answer my question…

  417.  #417Renee on August 15, 2010 at 10:36 am

    LG — you’re being heard and I hope you start to feel safe to process your triggers. I think you’re awesome and I understand you’re still in process, as we all are:-).

  418.  #418Renee on August 15, 2010 at 10:40 am

    Apparently, my city ranks dead last on a list of 150 cities to find a mate if you’re a single person…well, I refuse to give up! Even if I do have to date men who live 3 hours away, I will keep dating until I meet my Mr. Right!

    Besides, the “kid” from last night’s phone coversation lives in my city, so that’s encouraging:-).

  419.  #419Katarina Phang on August 15, 2010 at 10:56 am

    Mercedes, you said:

    “Katarina: I am one of those women who find sex outside of commitment unfulfilling. But that commitment doesn’t have to be marriage for me…I just need it to be with someone I love in order to fully enjoy it.

    It’s not that I would necessarily wait for love to have sex (my past indicates that isn’t true at all) but I don’t feel the level of intimacy during sex without a high level of intmiacy outside of sex and I don’t feel intimacy at all with a man I’m not commited to.

    Once I was able to experience sex with full intimacy with a man who knows my thoughts, my fears, my dreams, everything…he knows me intimately in the very heart of my being…everything changed for me. This level makes sex beyond anything I ever imagined (and it wasn’t that way with this same man prior to finding the intimacy with him). Before all this, I felt my body fulfilled…body only…it never was a great sense of fulfillment for me without the rest of it.”

    I understand where you’re coming from, but I think if women just try to be in the moment they’ll be surprised what they’ll find out. Of course sex with someone you love and are committed to will be more desirable -especially if he’s good at it. 😉 But that doesn’t mean sex outside that context can’t be satisfying.

    As I said in the other thread in response to Simply Shannon, sex has and offer a full range of expressions and experience. One can be different and uniquely functional that the others.

    I have had amazing sex with guys without commitment or a promise of commitment with whom our sexual chemistry was simply mind-boggling (one of them is my husband) and/or with guys who just are incredibly good at it. That’s special too ’cause it’s rare.

    Yes, it’s perhaps “body only” as you said, but it’s okay. I’m okay with a body-only-experience sex when my body needs it. It’s not a bad thing, contrary to what many women seem to think (within moderation that is). It still gives you something, no? I started my relationship on this level with my husband after crazy lustful overnight sex first time we met :D. And who ever thought something else blossomed months after 5-6 times of raunchy sex that night? LOL…

  420.  #420Katarina Phang on August 15, 2010 at 11:03 am

    “One can be different and uniquely functional that the others.”

    Oops I mean to say “One can be different and uniquely functional compared to the others.”

    Just to add, as I said, a lot of married couples give up sex or find their sex lives ho-hum even when they are committed and in love with each other. I have had my share of disappointment with marital sex too. So, commitment is not a guarantee or a pre-requisite of good/meaningful sex. I bet culturally many women are conditioned to think that way, but it you stretch your boundary a bit outside your comfort zone you might find yourself in a new territory you have never been before.

    Be zen about this. Explore your curiosity.