You Can’t “Prove” To A Man That You’re Open By Chasing After Him — So Then What To Do?

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Perhaps you’re in this situation (it’s one we’ve all been in at one time or another): A man is around, and then he pulls back. He not so much “RubberBands” as he just “goes away” without actually saying, with full closure, that he’s going away. He just sort of “drops the ball.”

And what we women have all been taught to do when that happens is to Pick UP the ball.

With disastrous consequences.

Not disastrous for the “relationship” – because most of the time – there IS no relationship going on here.

But disastrous for our self-esteem, our ability to feel “okay” with or without a man…and it gives us even more fuel for our belief that we have to DO something to get love. That we have to do anything but be warm and open.

Here’s the hard part. If we start to believe that it’s our coldness and game-playing that has driven a man away…then going after him to express our new “openness” backfires.

You’re already putting so much energy, thought, heart into this man who is doing NOTHING to keep this relationship afloat.

He’s just short of treating you BADLY.

And yet – you WANT him. And that’s the crux of this.

Why would anyone want a man like this? And the answer has to be: “Because I thought I CAUSED him to pull away.” And – sometimes that’s the case. A good relationship can go down the tubes with our neediness and pushing. Love can go away.

But most of the time – it’s not the case. If he was for YOU, he simply wouldn’t go away no matter what you did or said.

Except for this: Your neediness as evidenced by how much you still WANT him – and that’s what has to go.

And sometimes, you can’t let that go until you’ve humiliated yourself with some kind of finality. And even then, that humiliation may not mean anything to you.

If you ask him what went wrong, and show up with Feeling Messages – that’s just the start of your program to reprogram yourself and start getting on your own side. If you do that – send the email, contact him….the work here is WHAT THEN?

What do you do to stand up for yourself and pull back and “cut bait” when you need to?

A man who doesn’t want what you are will not come around unless he undergoes some major personal change – and that’s nothing you can do for him.

The cure is Circular Dating. If this man has nothing for you – you have nothing to lose.

You can do anything you want as long as it’s a lesson for you – and not about GETTING HIM BACK.

Love, Rori

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  1.  #1Femininewoman on March 7, 2011 at 7:33 am

    “And sometimes, you can’t let that go until you’ve humiliated yourself with some kind of finality”

    I’m done with that. Thank you again Rori.

  2.  #2Brenda on March 7, 2011 at 7:49 am

    I think voting ends tomorrow, March 8th – let’s give it one last push for Rori!

    “Thank you so much for nominating our community here for “Best Dating Blog” at! I just discovered we’d made the “Top 5″ –

    I don’t know exactly what we get if we come out on top – I think mostly “bragging rights” which can be pretty “girl” if it’s about appreciating ourselves (I love helping you believe you’re “all that” because you ARE – and the same goes for me, too) and perhaps it would be good publicity.

    I’ll go vote, too…and we’ll throw some sort of party if it works out that way…!

    Love, Rori”

  3.  #3Senior Lady Vibe on March 7, 2011 at 8:00 am

    Hello, world. It’s going to be a fabulous week and I am thankful.


  4.  #4Senior Lady Vibe on March 7, 2011 at 8:02 am

    [from Rori] ” ‘I’ll go vote, too…and we’ll throw some sort of party if it works out that way…!Love, Rori’ ”

    Let’s party no matter what!


  5.  #5Sweetpea on March 7, 2011 at 8:11 am

    I’m not sure if everyone knows, but you can vote everyday. So even if you’ve already voted, you can vote again. I’m going now.

  6.  #6LuLu on March 7, 2011 at 8:13 am

    [from Rori]

    ” You can do anything you want as long as it’s a lesson for you – and not about GETTING HIM BACK.


  7.  #7LonePlum on March 7, 2011 at 8:14 am

    Alonka1052: and 1378 and 1677

    My dear Alonka,

    what can I say?
    We are on this blog because we have this problem.
    Words come out of our mouth even before we know what we feel and want.

    We are smart, we know how things should be, yet we experiment life in a way we do not understand.

    I suppose our process would be to arrive to a point where we admit we do not know how things should be.
    There is not such thing as “should be”
    There is reality and NOW
    We are learning to connect to the reality of NOW. To know what we feel now, and to say it, if it is relevant and not hurtful or blaming.

    When I am convinced I know how things should be, well then, no matter what the man is telling me, I will make his words/actions match with my “should be”.
    I will push my square box into the circled hole, like a stubborn not talented baby.

    He says I am not invited
    He should invite me
    I am panicked because life is not as “should be”
    Death might even be at stake
    My subconscious is on total alert, no more space to let my smart calm conscious mind give a lucid straight honest answer
    My alert flash water all over my mind to put the fire off
    My mind is flooded
    I hear myself laugh and say “It’s fine, I have two parties myself.”

    I made things fit, I made life be fair, as it “should be”
    I made myself a happy smart girl whose needs are met.
    Life is perfect.
    I am perfect
    Death is kept away

    Lying to myself through him, I can avoid the fact I had sex to get him to commit and the fact that it is not working, he does not experiment us as a couple.

    When the alert is finished, what’s left behind the flooding makes me feel awful, I hate myself.

    Why did not I say
    “I feel overwhelmed hearing you go to social events as a single man.”
    I did not, because I know we do not have a relationship, it is too soon. Or because everything in him shows he is not into me. I have been fooling myself.
    If we were not having sex already, I would feel better, he would be a date whose life would not matter so much to me.
    But he is my lover and I can not be a sexual lover, I want to be a romantic lover and go to his party as a couple.
    I know I can not tell him this, I can not force his romantic feelings. If I tell him, I push him away.
    I know there is nothing I can do, I fell in my own trap.

    My mind is shut off, I don’t see I still can say the truth though.

    He is showing I am not his romantic partner anyhow, I got nothing to lose.

    I could say
    “I feel bad hearing my romantic partner is going to a social event without me. I feel overwhelmed when I hear people are going there as couples. I feel lost right now. It feels like friends. I do not have sex with my friends, though. The situation here feels off.”

    Well I did not say my truth, I played cool girl
    until the next time we said:
    (From your post)
    ***He (starts this conversation): hope you don’t feel offended that we are not together that day
    I: it feels odd
    He: but when I said I am doing it, you said you are invited to 2 parties!***

    I still have a chance to tell the truth:
    me “I had not been in such situation before, I was taken off guard and I blew a fuse. I opted to play equal with you. But the truth is I am a woman and I like the man to lead our relationship. I don’t expect him to go to social events without me. Not when people go there as couples. It feels like friends. I don’t have sex with my friends, though. I feel lost. This feels bad. I don’t like to feel bad. Can you help me?”
    him ” bla bla bla “(hundreds reasons to not take you)
    me “I fear we went too fast into this relationship. We should slow down a bit and keep sex out of the equation. We will feel better, with less pressure and time to know each other.”

    If he never meant to be a couple with you, he would break with you right there.
    But at least you would feel alined with yourself. You said what you are, what you feel. You did not fool yourself; you did not lie to him either. You would feel clean.


    He would wonder about this woman who knows what she wants, she is not just sleeping around, she trusts him to hear what she says.
    He might start to date her more closely, more interested in giving her a real try.

    But well, none of this is real, so drop it.
    It is the past.

    The good news is, I have multiple chances to experiment what feels better to me.
    Every man is an experiment to get closer to myself and what I want and how to get it.
    With the next man I like a lot, I can keep sex out of the equation.
    I can try that and see how it feels when he goes to a social event without me.
    As a simple date, there is nothing I can say about it. He does what he wants.
    But if I am dating several men and I have kept my mystery, I should be able to feel better about it and so to handle it better?


  8.  #8Laughing Goddess on March 7, 2011 at 8:20 am

    I love this post!

    “But most of the time – it’s not the case. If he was for YOU, he simply wouldn’t go away no matter what you did or said.”

    Before LI, I spent two years pining over an imaginary relationship. I thought I could feel the chemistry between us, we spent everyday together, we even made out a few times. To me, it was so obvious that we were in a relationship. He always denied it though. He said he never though of me that way. I was so confused.

    When I finally accepted what he said and finally decided to really let go, not tell him I’m letting go, but really let him go deep within my heart and mind…well, things changed very quickly.

    “But most of the time – it’s not the case. If he was for YOU, he simply wouldn’t go away no matter what you did or said.”

    This proved to be so true for me. With LI, he has said he won’t go away unless I tell him 10 times a day every day for a week that I want to break up. Every once in a while when we have a disagreement, I will lash out and say I want to break up and he doesn’t fall for it and I don’t really mean it.

    This is such a turnaround for me from before.

    How did I go from trying to convince and beg a man to be with me to being with a great man who sees my value and won’t give up on me easily?

    By truly letting go. I started to realize that God has something way better in store for me but I couldn’t see it because I was so hyper-focused on this one man.

    And now when I see this guy, I wonder what I was thinking. I don’t feel attracted to him at all now. He’s a great man and I still have warm friendly feelings with him but my attraction for him is gone. I can see that he isn’t able to give me the relationship I want. Even though he is tender and sensitive and I felt more connected to him than anyone ever.

    He told me time and time again that he wasn’t interested but I just wouldn’t listen.

    It feels so much better to be with someone who wants me. We still disagree about some things. There is always room for improvement or expansion. But overall, I feel so loved and cherished and valued.

    Thank you Rori for teaching me that this is possible.
    Thank you me for finally trusting that there was something better out there for me.

  9.  #9Brenda on March 7, 2011 at 8:24 am


    RE: #4 – Let’s party no matter what!

    Right on! 😆

  10.  #10LilyBelle on March 7, 2011 at 8:25 am

    What does one do when they are CDing and find they really happen to like one of the men in the rotation?

    I am interested in finding out how other Sirens’s do this..and what their experiences have been, if any are willing to share.

  11.  #11Laughing Goddess on March 7, 2011 at 8:25 am

    Lone Plum: I feel embarrassed to ask this…I noticed that you said you don’t offer feedback to people who don’t seem to be open to hearing it and I’m feeling worried that is why you didn’t comment on my post to you. I’m feeling a bit insecure.

    I also know it could be for other reasons ie that I didn’t really ask for help or that you’ve been busy.

    Rather than wondering, it feels good to just ask you.

    If I don’t seem open, I would love to know because I don’t want to project that as I really enjoy feedback from others.

  12.  #12Lisi on March 7, 2011 at 8:32 am

    I’m feeling lonely.

    And, a little hopeless, I suppose.

    I was on FB this morning, and saw a couple of posts from this guy who’s brilliant, and I liked him so much, and I leaned forward & asked him out to lunch a few years ago and he gave me the “brush off.” Said he was too busy, etc….

    I still want him to like me. Or, maybe it’s that I want someone brilliant, who thinks on the level this guy does, to want me. I find that very attractive.


  13.  #13Laughing Goddess on March 7, 2011 at 8:41 am


    you said “Or, maybe it’s that I want someone brilliant, who thinks on the level this guy does, to want me. I find that very attractive.”

    haha! My guess is it’s more about that than wanting him in particular.

    The way I look at situations like that is, that this man is here to help me define what I want in a relationship. I can be attracted to this quality in him and hold it near and dear to my heart without being attached to him.

    He’s helping me to get clear on what I want…which is a brilliant man who is super into me. Now that I know exactly what I want, it will be so much easier to recognize it when it shows up.

  14.  #14Laughing Goddess on March 7, 2011 at 8:44 am

    Prairie Girl: from the last thread

    It touches my heart that the ideas from that book were what you needed to hear.

    For me, it’s one of those magical book where I can open up any page and find something deeply profound and relevant to my situation.

    I’ll share more from it at some point if you like. 🙂

  15.  #15LonePlum on March 7, 2011 at 8:44 am

    11 LG
    OMG no! 🙂

    I did see your post and it says clearly you wish an answer from me.
    I’ll answer to it asap 🙂


  16.  #16Senior Lady Vibe on March 7, 2011 at 8:45 am

    @9: Brenda says:
    RE: #4 – Let’s party no matter what!
    Right on! …”

    Yes, we could come with our beverages of choice, convo and share our favorite vids, music, images, fun stuff from around “the interwebs”… etc. What say you?



  17.  #17Senior Lady Vibe on March 7, 2011 at 8:46 am


    …Rori Party…Maybe on the weekend…?


  18.  #18Laughing Goddess on March 7, 2011 at 8:48 am

    Gingersky: from other thread…

    I’m excited to share our experiences with NLP!

    I’m off to do some errands for now.

    About posting your email here…it’s fine to do. Many of us have created a specific email for this site for privacy sake. I just have that one forwarded to my regular email.


  19.  #19LonePlum on March 7, 2011 at 8:53 am

    Lilybelle 10

    I don’t know what to do with the heart but with the action it is simple: nothing
    The man chooses you or else he won’t own the relationship.
    You can’t do a thing about it, you Cdate and wait to be chosen, hoping he will chose you.
    By choosing, I mean he speaks future with you, you know he is into you 100%. Only then can you give it a try for a while.
    But as long as he acts as a date, you can’t do a thing apart from being your best inviting siren 😉


  20.  #20Laughing Goddess on March 7, 2011 at 8:53 am

    Lone Plum: awwww, that feels so sweet but I don’t want you to spend anytime looking for it because I didn’t clearly ask for help. It’s just that one where I was saying thank you and emotional processing.

    I wasn’t really asking for help but I just wanted to check in and let you know that I always appreciate your perspective.

    No worries though about that particular subject although I’m always happy to hear your feedback.

  21.  #21Laughing Goddess on March 7, 2011 at 9:01 am

    Lone Plum: ha ha! I feel discombobulated. I don’t even know if I asked for help or not.

    I’m seeing a pattern come up for me.

    I feel really uncomfortable receiving help. I feel bad that you are going out of your way to help me. I’m having a hard time receiving.

    I’m also not fully present here because I have other thing I need to do nagging me in my head.

    I get so much from your words to other sirens.

    I’m going to focus on those nagging tasks I have and come back when I am more centered and grounded.


  22.  #22Brenda on March 7, 2011 at 9:02 am


    RE: #16 – I like it, I like it!

  23.  #23Lisi on March 7, 2011 at 9:10 am

    Laughing Goddess:

    Thank you. You’re right. I want a brilliant, thoughtful man who’s totally into me.

    This guy is an atheist who’s totally fascinated by religion. OMG — makes me WEAK IN THE KNEES!!!

    Spirituality is one of my favorite things to discuss. So, yeah. I want that quality.


  24.  #24Sweetpea on March 7, 2011 at 9:11 am

    LOL, Brenda! When I read #9, I felt like putting my hands up in “devil horns” like on Wayne and Garth. LMAO!!!!

    It was just an automatic and almost uncontrollable response. “Party on! Excellent!”


  25.  #25Sweetpea on March 7, 2011 at 9:18 am

    Loneplum, RE: 7

    Your words totally resonate with me; not even directed toward me, but feels like it addresses a universal problem, I guess. Or at least some little part of me is saying, “yes, yes. I needed to hear that like a dying man in the desert needs water”. Even though I don’t really understand why. I’m going to have to read over it a few times to really absorb everything.

    And then I read… “But well, none of this is real, so drop it.
    It is the past.”

    And I felt let down. I felt like you said all this awesome stuff that really resonated with me and then invalidated yourself. But then I look at it again and giggle. It just strikes me funny. You tell this story that totally drew me in, and then, (slap in the face) “Get over it. It’s a fairytale.”

    LOL! I must just have the giggles this morning. I do love that you are such a realistic, steady voice on here.

  26.  #26Sweetpea on March 7, 2011 at 9:21 am

    From Lisi,

    “I still want him to like me. Or, maybe it’s that I want someone brilliant, who thinks on the level this guy does, to want me. I find that very attractive.”

    Brenda, I thought of you when I read this. Since you have some validation and I know Ryan’s mind was so brilliant to you, could you possibly flip this, like Lisi did… “I want someone brilliant, who thinks on the level this guy does (and doesn’t have a mental illness) to want me”? Do you think that would be helpful?

  27.  #27Alonka on March 7, 2011 at 9:29 am


    #7: Thank you so so very much. I hear every word you are saying. I absolutely agree with you.

    But the funniest part about it was that I actually thought we had a relationship and when he did give me his reasons for not taking me, they sounded logical and convincing. They sounded like he was doing it FOR ME almost. As of not bringing me to a party where everyone knew each other for 10-15 years just like that, but saying that he wants to introduce his friends to me slowly, one by one, over a nice dinner setting. He said he wouldn’t want to be put in a situation where he had to meet my friends as a crowd all at once and so he doesn’t want to bring it on me either. He also said that he hates going out on Sunday night, so he is only going there for a little while. He also said that the hostess specifically said that she is only inviting a restricted group of people and she wanted to keep it this way.
    Then he said – that is why we are not spending this evening together. I appreciate you asking me this question, because if I had a question for you, I’d want it to be answered too. I hope you don’t feel funny about this anymore. I hope you are happy now.

    And I said – yes, thank you. And the truth is that I wouldn’t have thought about it again if he didn’t break up with me 10 days later;)

    I did tell him I felt surprised because many people go to more than one party or that another solution was for him just to stay with me. But I didn’t make a big deal out of it because I didn’t think it was a big deal. When I listened to his explanation, I thought – I didn’t bring it up when it was first mentioned and why wouldn’t I want him to go visit friends and enjoy himself? It’s like that weekend that Ann’s guy wanted to spend with his friends – I don’t think it’s any of my business if he wants to go, it’s not part of our relationship. I really really did not think it was a big deal. Until after the break up;)

  28.  #28Sweetpea on March 7, 2011 at 9:30 am


    Interestingly, I find that the few times I’ve initiated on dating sites, the guy pretty much blows me off. I don’t do it often, but I can think of a couple recently where I really liked their profiles and told them so. And I get… nada; their noses turned up in the air to me is what it feels like. And I’m finding the humor in it. I just tell myself, “This is why I don’t initiate” and chalk it up to remembering why I don’t lean forward. Not even innocently, cuz it just brings my value WAY DOWN in their eyes, apparently.

    Not saying that you did anything wrong, just wondering if you think he may have reacted differently if it had been his idea. I’ve heard some other Sirens say they have the same experience with initiating on dating sites. Men are funny creatures sometimes, but I do love them for that. (Funny, I typed “mean” instead of “men.” Freudian slip?)

  29.  #29Alonka on March 7, 2011 at 9:33 am


    “But well, none of this is real, so drop it.
    It is the past.”

    LonePlum said it because the guy broke up with me and this situation I asked her about is really in the past.

    I just feel foolish for not even thinking that it may be a problem.

  30.  #30Sweetpea on March 7, 2011 at 9:40 am


    I understand why she said it. I was just commenting on how funny it felt to me that I was all wrapped up in what she had to say and thinking, “yeah. Maybe he would think THAT…” and then, Bam! She snapped me right out of it. I’ve seen it on a comedy somewhere, where somebody slaps the guy and says, “Snap out of it, man!” And that’s what it felt like to me.

    Not trying to make light of your situation, just commenting on how I felt when I read it.

    After reading your last post to her, though, I do feel curious. Do you think maybe he felt pressured when you told him, “another solution was for him just to stay with me.”?

  31.  #31Lisi on March 7, 2011 at 9:55 am

    Sweetpea —

    Thanks. I do sometimes get responses when I message someone on a dating site. I posted yesterday to a guy: “Cute dog. Is he looking for a girl to scratch him behind the ears?” We’ll see how that works.

    As for the guy who’s my friend on Facebook — he’s someone I actually know. And, a few years ago, when I was in total lean forward mode — I asked him out to lunch.

    Didn’t work. As you might guess….


  32.  #32Sweetpea on March 7, 2011 at 9:57 am

    This article is exactly what happened with TTG. The hard part is that I really did push him out of my life alot, but he would never let me. I felt like he was, as Rori says in the article, “If he was for YOU, he simply wouldn’t go away no matter what you did or said.” And it felt really good to have him sticking in there. Then all of a sudden, he just dropped the ball. He disappeared. He stopped calling everyday. I contacted him a couple times to see what was going on and he always talked with me, but just would tell me things like he had court, didn’t know if he was gonna end up in jail and didn’t want a girl outside waiting for him. Then…I saw him with his now gf and I knew what I suspected was true. Not exactly the validation I was looking for (sigh).

    Yet he was still telling me he didn’t have a girlfriend. My friend kept telling me, “leave it alone. Maybe he doesn’t know what he wants.” I said, “F that! He doesn’t get to keep me hanging on while he’s out dating other women. We agreed to sexual exclusivity, and I seriously doubt he’s not being sexual with her.” So I didn’t just put him on the back of my horse and ride off.

    I like what Rori says about asking why and using feeling messages.

    The coolest, best-est part is that even though my mom’s side of the family were well-to-do and I learned all the manners and etiquette of that (yes. I know which is the salad fork), my dad was working class, although well-read and well-spoken. I’ve been resistant to a man who is financially stable. I’m not sure where the block came from, but I’ve found myself attracted to working class and not wanted anything to do with a man with money, whether he was born into it or not. I was blue collar, all the way. Yet I want a financially stable relationship and I would love to be a stay at home mom. I’ve been trying to come to terms with this for a very long time now. Like I said, I don’t know what the block was, but when TTG’s gf texted me that I’m a “horror”, something just flipped in me. Suddenly I realize that I am way out of his league. I feel kind of bad to say it, but I’m so excited about this. I no longer want a working class man, I finally feel like I want a white collar guy, which has been such a turn off to me in the past, but more in line with the lifestyle I’m looking for.

    I don’t know how to put this without sounding like a gold digger. I’m not that. I’ve been resistant to money. Now I feel like I’ve opened up to it. And maybe I won’t even have to have a guy with money now. My attitude around it has shifted, so maybe I can just attract money to me. I’ve felt like I’m always struggling with money for so long, and I know I had some sort of block to it, I just couldn’t put my finger on it. And now I feel like that block is gone!!!

    Thank you TTG for helping me heal this!!!

  33.  #33Sweetpea on March 7, 2011 at 9:58 am

    LOL! “Money” by Pink Floyd is playing on the radio.

  34.  #34Lisi on March 7, 2011 at 10:00 am

    Kaitlyn —

    I’ve been thinking about you and Adam this morning, and here’s what I think. As long as you think you screwed up and he’s the only guy for you — you’re driving him away.

    Lean back mode includes letting go of the outcome. It’s not until you’re in the space where you can “take him or leave him,” you’re not really leaned back.

    And, truthfully, on a planet with billions of people — more than one could make you happy. It’s just a statistical reality.

    Let go……let go……let go…..and, that’s when he MIGHT come back. Or — you might find someone else. Either is a possibility.


  35.  #35Sweetpea on March 7, 2011 at 10:06 am


    I’m glad you’ve had better luck with responses than I have. Maybe I just need reinforcement to let the man initiate – although I feel a little resistant to that sometimes too. Maybe the Universe is just sending me a message. Heck, I’ve even been chasing off the ones who contact me, lately. I’m not feeling all that open, maybe? I don’t know. The last guy who contacted me told me he liked my profile and attitude and if I “feel there’s something there” to get back to him. I felt pretty excited. And I told him I felt excited to hear from him. And…nothing. Not really sure what’s up with it. But not really too concerned about it, either.

    I went out with one guy for the first time a couple weeks ago and never heard back from him. I got in touch with another guy I was talking with last summer and was pretty intrigued with. He said we should meet each other soon, asked for my number, texted me – and I haven’t heard anything from him now since Th. Even though I told him I had some time Fri and Sun. ??

    Like I said, not worried about it, just curious about what’s going on with me lately.

  36.  #36Summerbaby on March 7, 2011 at 10:10 am

    Interesting weekend. I felt guilty for seeing more than one guy. I have been trying to deal with those feelings. So I had a dilemma. I had two dates for friday night and no idea how I was going to pull it off.

    First guy that asked me never called back to confirm, so when second guy called to confirm he said, see you at 5 if that is okay? So he got the date.

    It all worked out because 1st guy never stepped up to confirm and texted me two days later with an excuse. Then another guy called and asked me for a favor and now wants to buy me groceries to repay me. At first I wasn’t going to accept, but I was talking with LD and she said it’s good to learn to receive. So I am going to let him buy me groceries.

    I am trying to practice I am all that, but I can barely sustain it for more than 3 seconds at a time, but I keep going with it. I figure, like my keyboard, it will get easier the more I practice.

    So I got to see my favorite guy on Friday and on Sunday. I am starting to develop feelings for him and it frightens me. I think he really cares for me, but I am waiting to hear it from him before I say anything. He’s wanting to do things for me that would make me feel like he’s taking care of me. I’ve always hoped for the kind of guy I could feel like was a shoulder to lean on.

    He’s starting to feel like that kind of guy. He remembers the things I tell him and asks about them in conversations days or weeks later and it seems he is thinking about me in the future too, based on some of the things he says. He’s still consistently contacting me daily and I really like it.

    I got Commitment Blueprint and am trying to go through it. There’s a lot to listen to. I converted it to mp3s and put it on my player so I can listen at work. I only wish I’d known the real differences between the dvds and the cds beforehand because I would have opted for the dvds with the visual presentations. It wasn’t clear that there were visual presentations in the description of the package.

    It seems like I am finally learning to drop the ball. Wish I’d found this site years ago, I’d be so much further along in my healing, but I am feeling so glad I found it.

    Hope everyone is well this Monday.


  37.  #37Sweetpea on March 7, 2011 at 10:11 am


  38.  #38Laughing Goddess on March 7, 2011 at 10:17 am

    I’m realizing that the single most attractive quality in a man is that he cherishes and adores me and is able to do a relationship.

    And from here on out, I’m hoping that if a man says he isn’t into me, my attraction for him will disappear.

    This is my hope for me and any other siren who wants that.

    I can still admire his qualities and appreciate him but my attraction only goes to men who return it from here on out.

  39.  #39Summerbaby on March 7, 2011 at 10:18 am

    Oh, saw this video on you tube last night and laughed so hard I cried.

    If you like cats or have one, you owe it to yourself to watch. It’s an interview with a woman about her lackluster love life interspersed with her cat sabotaging everything without her knowledge.

    I don’t know how to post the link so I’ll just say search single white feline on you tube.

    great giggle


  40.  #40Laughing Goddess on March 7, 2011 at 10:22 am

    I mean, how smart can a guy be if he can’t see what a goddess I am. I don’t want to give my attraction to a man who can’t see that.

    Of course, if I don’t believe that I am a catch then I’m going to attract men who confirm that I’m not.

    It all starts within.

    SLV: I seems to remember you posted a quote from EMK along these lines. Do you remember what that was?

    Oh man, I am still avoiding these nagging tasks I have to do.
    All I want to do is hang out on siren island.

  41.  #41Lisi on March 7, 2011 at 10:22 am


    Go to the address bar. Highlight. Right click. copy.

    Come here to the blog. Right click. Paste.

    Can’t find her under “single white feline”

    I’ve got a guy with his cat on Valentine’s day.


  42.  #42Alonka on March 7, 2011 at 10:25 am


    #30: Yes, I see.

    Nope, don’t think he felt pressured. I was mentioning different options of handling this as of why I had this question, all with a soft smiley intimate attitude.

    I guess if someone wants to lie to you for whatever reason, they will. Or perhaps he didn’t lie but met someone there. Or talked to friends and they didn’t ‘approve’ me – whatever, I will never know;))

    The moral is to continue learning to speak my truth and know what I want. And to hope that at some point with someone it will play out just right – as of would feel right to me;)

  43.  #43LilyBelle on March 7, 2011 at 10:25 am

    35: Sweetpea,

    Remember, last week, I had my first CD with Manly Man on Wednesday evening? This one threw me totally off my feminine energy but I kept trying and rebounding and getting frustrated with myself.

    I also mentioned that he would more than likely disappear…I heard from him the next morning, long enough for him to tell me he thought I am amazing and poof…nothing….Until about 30 minutes ago, he left me a voice mail, said he had been thinking about me, his daughter is in town from New York and he has been busy with her but wants to have dinner with me, tonight.

    I love the “if he isn’t in front of you…” It keeps me centered and focused.

  44.  #44Alonka on March 7, 2011 at 10:37 am


    I asked Cookie this question yesterday and was surprised with the answer. Do you think that when they break up with you saying ‘I don’t know where the relationship is going, I don’t have a yes or a no’ – this is just a standard line that is used to soften the situation?

    Lisi, do you have any experience/opinion on it?

  45.  #45Summerbaby on March 7, 2011 at 10:37 am


    I think that’s it.

    it shows a man (one of her bfs)

    prepare to laugh.


  46.  #46Senior Lady Vibe on March 7, 2011 at 10:39 am

    @39: Summerbaby says:
    “…I don’t know how to post the link so I’ll just say search single white feline on you tube…”

    You can copy and paste the URL which appears in your browser address bar for the YouTube video as in:

    Could you post it? It sounds fun!


  47.  #47Kristine on March 7, 2011 at 10:39 am

    I know how hard it is to let go of something or someone you love because though it was the hardest thing I have ever done in my life I knew it just wasn’t healthy. It took me a long time ok too long but sometimes things are not as we see them or want to see them. I am a strong believer in just let go and walk away, it’s hard, but if someone wants to be in your life he will be. He will come back and keep coming back until you notice. Though this happened to me with a man, when I became receptive he went away. Not all clear on my situation but it no longer rules me and my life. I have so many other things going on in my life that I just leave it alone and move forward becoming the woman I am and am happy to be.

  48.  #48Senior Lady Vibe on March 7, 2011 at 10:48 am

    @40: Laughing Goddess says:

    “…SLV: I seems to remember you posted a quote from EMK along these lines. Do you remember what that was?…”

    Was this it? A few other sirens have also posted it:

    “Face it; your ex isn’t as great as you think he is.
    …He was willing to let you go.”
    ~Evan Marc Katz


  49.  #49Lisi on March 7, 2011 at 10:50 am

    OMG, Summberbaby — hilarious!

    Alonka —

    Well, either way they’re gone. I think guys experience confusion, just like we do. A guy who says that might be telling you the truth.

    Also, I think they try to soften the blow, like we do. I’ve told guys that I just got together with my good friend. Sorry. Just bad timing. You’re really attractive.

    Actually, that’s what I told M. when I got together with B. And, it had the effect that, when I broke up with B., M. was still available, and now I’m dating him.

    They don’t want to close the door. They might want to come back later, after all. Might miss you. Might want sex. Neither indicates they have any long term intention with you…..


  50.  #50Lisi on March 7, 2011 at 10:53 am

    SLV — love that quote.

    If B. is willing to let me go — he ain’t that great — is he?


  51.  #51Senior Lady Vibe on March 7, 2011 at 10:56 am

    @45: Summerbaby says:
    “Lisi, I think that’s it.”

    tears in eyes, sputtering and choking…

    Single White Feline


  52.  #52LD on March 7, 2011 at 10:56 am

    Triple mantras for me today:

    If he doesn’t adore me, he doesn’t deserve me.

    If he’s not in front of me, he’s not real.

    If he can’t handle me at my worst, he doesn’t deserve my best.

  53.  #53LilyBelle on March 7, 2011 at 10:59 am

    52: LD

    Oh yes! I like the “triple size” it.

  54.  #54Summerbaby on March 7, 2011 at 11:00 am

    SLV and Lisi,

    so glad you liked it. I was crying last night I was laughing so hard. I have two cats and I swear they are more than capable of that and much worse.

    Makes me wonder if they have been responsible for my past disappearing men? ROFL

    hugs and giggles,


  55.  #55Senior Lady Vibe on March 7, 2011 at 11:01 am

    @52: LD says:
    “…Triple mantras for me today:…”

    Thanks, I’m copying and pasting those. I should commit them to memory.


  56.  #56Lucy on March 7, 2011 at 11:03 am

    I feel confused, concerned, frustrated about this part of the Ryan issue: Am I the only one here who thinks there is a significant difference btwn “I love you” and “I’m in love with you” and that it’s not wrong for a man to feel and say “I love you” and yet not be “IN love”? Esp in a spiritual-type relationship. I believe that Ryan does indeed LOVE Brenda… just not IN love (yet :)) and so was not lying when he said it. Brenda, what do you think? (Others too.)

  57.  #57Senior Lady Vibe on March 7, 2011 at 11:04 am

    @54: Summerbaby says:

    Me too! I think I almost choked myself! So funny!


  58.  #58Summerbaby on March 7, 2011 at 11:06 am

    LD @ 52,

    What if we could flip those to be more positive? there’s a negative vibe to these to me…

    If he doesn’t adore me, he doesn’t deserve me.

    *If he adores me, he may deserve me.*

    If he’s not in front of me, he’s not real.

    *If he’s in front of me, he may be real.*

    If he can’t handle me at my worst, he doesn’t deserve my best.

    *If he can handle me at my worst, he may deserve my best.*

    This reframe feels better to me… The subconscious doesn’t do well with negatives like not, and don’t. So if you want a mantra to do a better job, it may help to frame it in the positive.



  59.  #59Senior Lady Vibe on March 7, 2011 at 11:12 am

    @56: Lucy says:
    “…Am I the only one here who thinks there is a significant difference btwn “I love you” and “I’m in love with you”…”

    I believe men feel things in the moment and if a man tells me “I love you” — particularly in an intimate moment that doesn’t mean he will be in love with me for the rest of our lives, or is even “in love” with me at that moment.

    It’s consistent communication and action over a period of time, and a desire for commitment to me that I’m looking for.


  60.  #60Sweetpea on March 7, 2011 at 11:22 am


    That’s awesome that it worked out and you didn’t have to take yourself out on Friday night because the 1st guy skipped out on ya.

    I agree with LD and I’m glad you decided to let him buy groceries for you. I’ve had trouble letting myself receive from guys – even letting them buy me a drink at the bar is something I’ve struggled with, because, “Omg! It might give them the wrong idea.”

    Well, pooh to that! It’s been a real struggle for me to get past receiving and worrying that it will send the wrong message. I keep having to remind myself that a man’s feelings are his responsibility. I’ve been catching some flack around this lately, so think I’ve not completely healed it, but I’m making progress. And I LOVE progress!! 😀

  61.  #61Sweetpea on March 7, 2011 at 11:25 am

    LG, re: 38,

    “And from here on out, I’m hoping that if a man says he isn’t into me, my attraction for him will disappear.

    This is my hope for me and any other siren who wants that.”

    Amen! And please, can he be within a few years of my age. LOL! OG, the 68 year old guy, is way attracted to me, but I just cannot do that. I want someone to grow old with and the chance of that happening with him is mighty slim. So… maybe I only want guys I can have a feasible relationship with to be attracted to me? Is that too much to add, do you think?

  62.  #62Lucy on March 7, 2011 at 11:26 am

    Sweetpea and Lisi, I think you are drawing an invalid conclusion about initiating on dating sites. Guys get no response from Most of the women they contact – Why should a woman expect a higher rate of response than a man? Why should no response mean “oh I turned him off by initiating” when guys get no response much of the time and hopefully don’t draw that conclusion? What do you think?

  63.  #63Sweetpea on March 7, 2011 at 11:29 am


    Yay for you! Yes, I love the “if he’s not in front of you” too. I’m getting better at just letting go of guys who disappear. But I’m also committed to my personal growth, so I look to see what is going on with ME, so I can heal it.

  64.  #64Sweetpea on March 7, 2011 at 11:30 am

    If it was just one guy, I would just chalk it up to, “he’s just not it.” But with it being three within a couple of weeks, I have to take a look and see if it’s something off in my vibe. Because THAT I can do something about.

  65.  #65Lucy on March 7, 2011 at 11:31 am

    Thanks, SLV. I feel relieved reading that. It had seemed like I was the only one who saw it that way.

  66.  #66Alonka on March 7, 2011 at 11:34 am


    #60: The way I feel about it is that they are happy to buy you a drink. It feels good to them;) Even to get to watch you look into their eyes thinking I’m All That is a moment to remember.

  67.  #67Lisi on March 7, 2011 at 11:35 am

    Lucy / Brenda —

    I definitely think flipping a few things would be helpful to recovery. Like you mentioned, Lucy — flipping what he meant when he said, “I love you.”

    Brenda — I’m wondering about the fake proposal story. How about we imagine for a moment that Ryan was in the mental state that he was going to propose. He sang to you, borrowed your ring, and had every intent of proposing.

    And, then he freaked out.

    And, when Ryan freaks out, he flips a switch to a new mental state — and, it’s like the old one never existed. Once he flipped over — he was not in the space to propose, and had so mentally switched, that he could not imagine he ever had been.

    And, when you remind him of the old mental state, he gets upset, flooded and confused. And, he just goes straight to denial.

    I know that B. would go to “friend space” and it was as though our relationship hadn’t existed.

    My beginning another sexual relationship called him on that, HARD.

    He didn’t leave me because we had never been in love. He left me because he couldn’t stand it that I was sleeping with someone else. Hence, proving by his reaction that he had, in fact, been in love with me.

    I feel somewhat vindicated by that.

    I think Ryan’s hot/cold behavior was similar.


  68.  #68Katarina Phang on March 7, 2011 at 11:37 am

    Yesterday was 6 month since I met SG and our relationship has never been better. Though I know that he’s perhaps not for me in the long run (as for now, he doesn’t want more kids), I accept him what is and enjoy him for now.

    I feel he’s fallen deeper in love with me. It feels great and we have been dancing this masculine-feminine tune with much success. He feels so manly when he’s with me and as such I feel so womanly when I’m with him. We’re both very happy and fulfilled.

    He told me I had to teach other women this power of being a woman/goddess.

    That’s the status report for now. But of course I keep dating when I’m not with him. That for sure assures my “mysterious” charm.

  69.  #69Katarina Phang on March 7, 2011 at 11:38 am

    “I accept him what is and enjoy him for now.”

    I mean I accept what is…(him the way he is).

  70.  #70Sweetpea on March 7, 2011 at 11:38 am


    You said, “They don’t want to close the door. They might want to come back later, after all. Might miss you. Might want sex. Neither indicates they have any long term intention with you…..”

    That is exactly why I couldn’t just ride on and leave the ex on the back of the horse. If he doesn’t know if he wants the door OPEN, I feel compelled to CLOSE it. I feel good about that now, actually. And I actually put the EMK quote in as his nickname on my phone. So….it’s a reminder, everytime he contacts me. I feel…smug.

  71.  #71Sweetpea on March 7, 2011 at 11:40 am

    Oh! Even better! It fits in as his name! It wasn’t coming up as a nickname, so it’s now his name and shows up as who he is.

  72.  #72Lisi on March 7, 2011 at 11:40 am

    My point is — I don’t know that it was a “fake proposal” and framing it that way puts you in victim stance, which is not a good place to be.

    A reframe might be healing. Maybe an almost-proposal. Or something like that.

  73.  #73Sweetpea on March 7, 2011 at 11:41 am

    No 70 is for Lisi. Don’t know why it came up as Lisa – must be spellcheck. Oops.

  74.  #74Lucy on March 7, 2011 at 11:43 am

    Summerbaby, I love your mantra flips! They feel exciting, affirming, and truly self-valuing.

  75.  #75Lisi on March 7, 2011 at 11:43 am

    Sweetpea —

    What if he comes back and says, “I’m ready now. I wasn’t then, but now I am. Can we try it again?”

    I believe Mercedes told that happened with her guy and now they’re happy together…..


  76.  #76Lisi on March 7, 2011 at 11:44 am

    Sweetpea —

    I’m beyond spell check. Waaay too much Diva for a traditional spelling! LOL


  77.  #77Sweetpea on March 7, 2011 at 11:49 am


    Re: the initiating thing, I don’t know. I think a lot of guys really do get maybe a “turned off” feeling if they don’t get to be the pursuer. Who knows what they are thinking. It doesn’t matter. What matters to me, is that I feel like it’s the Universe reminding me to not initiate. To practice being in my femininity and respond to the guys who approach me. I guess I’m still not sold on the online dating thing anyway. I’ve met a couple of guys who I dated for awhile, in the year I’ve been on there, but they’ve all been practice guys – just practice guys. I feel sort of bored with it. But I still do it, because I need the practice. (shrug). Maybe my vibe is off around it because of that attitude?

  78.  #78Lucy on March 7, 2011 at 11:49 am

    LG, if I only required those traits in a man, I would be married again by now. I don’t feel a need to be adored and cherished by a man bc I do that for myself and that need is thus fulfilled. I want other things from a man. I’m not saying this to cause trouble – I guess I feel frustrated that I want more and haven’t gotten it yet. 🙁 What do you think? oops, don’t mean to keep you from your tasks….. <3

  79.  #79Sweetpea on March 7, 2011 at 11:53 am


    re: 66 – yes. I like your take on this. And, even before I found Rori, I started telling myself, if a guy buys me a drink it’s either because I am already talking with him, or he would like me to. A drink is not much of a sacrifice for him to be able to enjoy my company. Conceited? Maybe. It kind of felt like it at the time. But… I am a Goddess, after all. Heeheehee

  80.  #80LonePlum on March 7, 2011 at 11:54 am

    27: Alonka

    Ann’s boys friend lives with her and goes to a male camp. It is socially accepted that married men and single men all together share a week end together without their lovers and wive
    He did not give her any explanation, society itself gives it.

    Your guy went to a meeting where it is socially accepted that men show up with their dates. You said you realized that people were going there as couples. The hostess either invites him with his date, or she invites him alone because he said he is single or because she wants him for herself. Or because one of her female guest is his match during her dinner.
    There was no explanation possible for him not taking you, other than he did not own you as his date.

    Next time a man goes to enjoy a night without you “for your own good”, as he said, run for the hill

    Him hiding your existence to his friends is not making you happy, it can not be done for your own good.

    Next time a man tells you what you would feel, tell him to worry about his own feelings, and you’ll handle yours. I run for the hill when I hear anybody tell me that they won’t let me share fun with them because they know I won’t like it. I am telling them I want to do it, and they know better than me what I want?

    He broke up because he realized he could not do that to you, you were expecting a real relationship.
    There is nothing you could have done.
    Don’t beat yourself up.
    I promess if he was your man, he would have taken you to the party without you asking for it. If his hostess was really a crazy woman who does not invite her guests’ partners (?) well then he would have canceled her.
    This situation does not happen when the man is in a relationship.

    Yes, dear you thought you were in a relationship. You had sex, so there it was.
    But now you know sex is irrelevant for a man.
    He is in a relationship with you only if he falls in love with you and his life allows him to move in with you. Otherwise, he is simply dating you and if you let him, well he will enjoy sex too.
    While he dates you, chances are he will attend some events as a single man, hoping to meet Mrs Right.

    My post meant that deep inside you knew all that.
    We want to believe we are in a relationship
    But we know it is not true , this is why we are scared to tell what we want.
    We are afraid to tell them we want to be respected as part of a couple because the minute we hear ourselves ask that, we’ll know it is ridiculous, there is no such couple.
    We also know he will leave if we refer to a relationship. So we keep quiet.

    But now you know he may stay gone, it does not matter, because he was not creating your relationship, it was fake.
    You don’t want him or anybody specifically.
    You want the man who creates your relationship.

    When you meet YOUR man, you will tell the truth with no problem. You won’t be afraid to hear your mouth say what you want, because you will know it is not ridiculous
    It will not be ridiculous because it will fit into the relationship he will be creating with you.
    Things will feel coherent. You will feel sane and powerful.


  81.  #81Sweetpea on March 7, 2011 at 12:00 pm


    I’m not sure about what if he comes back. I remained open to it for awhile and I thought he was working his way back toward me. But he’s the same guy who got s*#t stirred up Friday night – he obviously gave his gf my phone number & told her who knows what to compel her to call me a “low life beer horror” – whatever that is. His friend always buys my drinks when we’re out, so I assume the implication is similar to a crack ho – that I trade sex for drinks. Then his sister started texting me – who is a brawler and not a small girl. She was rather threatening at first and it was obvious to me that she was stirred up about something. Once I talked with her though, she told me to just let it go and that she had told him the same thing.

    For some reason, I don’t feel very open to a guy who would try to get my a$$ kicked. So if he were to come back, today at least, I think I’d have to tell him to go suck eggs.

  82.  #82Karala on March 7, 2011 at 12:00 pm

    lol Summerbaby, thanks for sharing that video, it was hilarious ^^ (posting the link again :

  83.  #83Lucy on March 7, 2011 at 12:04 pm

    Lisi, I agree with you about the term “fake proposal.” I get triggered every time I see it. The words indicate that a proposal actually occurred, but from what I’ve heard, that is not the case. I do know, however, that I am something of a word purist, so maybe it is just my own hangup. Hugs to Brenda… hope you are feeling good today, Bren. <3

  84.  #84Sweetpea on March 7, 2011 at 12:06 pm

    LonePlum, re: 80,

    Once again, loving your take on things. I’ve gotten really brave lately and started telling men I won’t have sex with them unless we are in an exclusive sexual relationship. This eliminates all the worry that he possibly didn’t realize I was wanting a relationship. I say “sexual” because I want to leave my options open to CD. And, I have to allow myself to trust that if he agrees to it, he’s keeping his promise. It’s been quite freeing for me.

    What do you think of that?

    Also, it’s funny how my attitude has shifted about worrying about a man I’m dating having sex with other women and possibly falling in love with them and my “losing” him. I just don’t feel the panic around it that I used to. I think my abandonment issues are being healed.

  85.  #85Sweetpea on March 7, 2011 at 12:11 pm

    It always feels so weird to me to talk about another Siren when she’s not actively posting. I know that she will eventually see what I’ve written, so I know I’m not “talking behind her back,” but it feels that way to me. Something here for me to heal, nothing directed toward you, Lucy or Lisi.

    I think it’s a great idea for Brenda to re-write the story of the proposal or lack thereof in a way that feels good and empowering to her. What do you think, Brenda?

    I’m with Lucy, hope you’re doing fabulously today and reveling and your healing and steps toward your own happily ever after!

  86.  #86Lucy on March 7, 2011 at 12:29 pm

    Sweetpea, I like your idea of using it as a reminder to not initiate. 🙂 I was just concerned about it being seen as evidence supporting a theory. I admit, faulty research is one of my pet peeves. Nothing personal. I feel uncomfortable now, judging myself as “annoying” and “rigid.” I must be in my left brain today, based on my comments so far.

  87.  #87Lucy on March 7, 2011 at 12:39 pm

    Katarina, feels good to see you here! <3

  88.  #88Susan on March 7, 2011 at 12:41 pm

    I had something lovely happen this past weekend. I have NOT told Mr Skittish anything about my changing how I relate to him based on Rori’s teachings. I just changed how I relate to him.

    Yesterday, out of the blue, he said I was the most feminine woman he had ever dated. Then he said I made him feel more like a man than he has at any other time in this life. Then he thanked me. I nearly cried with joy.

  89.  #89LonePlum on March 7, 2011 at 12:53 pm

    88 Susan

    Thank you for that. It feel so yummy!


  90.  #90Alonka on March 7, 2011 at 1:15 pm


    Than you very much again. The disturbing part is that I told him I never had a casual relationship, I’m looking for smth real and he said multiple times that he wants me ‘to be his girl’, he really cares about me, he even called me ‘his love’. I thought we were in agreement.

    I only suspected that he was building walls (or not taking this to the next level) when it was way too late. I decided to hold on sex when I see him for Vday dinner (which never happened haha). he invited me nicely, but broke up with me instead, so I was left with his gift that I had to return! 😉

    The disturbing part is not that I’m ‘afraid’ to speak up. It’s that I fear to suspect and insult my friend. I choose to trust and give the benefit of a doubt. I really really hate not to trust but to check, analyze and ‘present the case with all the proof’ 😉 I find it diminishing.

    Maybe next time I will pay closer attention. Maybe next time I will realize earlier that someone is hiding me from their friends and freak out. Let’s hope for that

  91.  #91Lucy on March 7, 2011 at 1:20 pm

    All – You know how we are sposed to be warm, welcoming, open, vulnerable, authentic when guys contact us? Do you think it’s possible to be too much of those things? When I hear from a guy I like, I feel excited and happy, and respond as such. That’s authentic. But is it a turn-off? If so, what’s the alternative – be inauthentic and aloof??

  92.  #92Sweetpea on March 7, 2011 at 1:33 pm

    Lucy, re: 91

    Funny you should ask. I just mentioned above about the guy on OKC who contacted me telling me he liked my profile, etc… I responded that I felt excited when I saw he had a message from me (this I usually don’t feel, so don’t express it). I just checked and he is either no longer on the site, or has blocked me. So, I was asking myself the same question. Seeing as he’s an “A-lister,” and hasn’t been on there long, I think more than likely, he blocked me.

    On the one hand, it feels really bad and I’m wondering if I came on too strong. On the other hand, if that’s all it took to scare him off, Lord, he couldn’t have handled me, anyway!

  93.  #93Sweetpea on March 7, 2011 at 1:33 pm

    I mean, I felt excited when I saw I had a message from him.

  94.  #94Brenda on March 7, 2011 at 1:37 pm


    RE: #56 – I never even told him he was in love with me. I don’t go around dictating people’s feelings. Nor do I think someone with schizophrenia is even capable of real love. For anyone to lead a woman on and do a fake proposal and to test me as he did, emoting tremendous pain from me, all that shows he does not love me at all.

    So that was his thing, not mine. My main issue was over him leading me on repeatedly and then coming away saying we never dated and he never did a fake proposal.

  95.  #95Sweetpea on March 7, 2011 at 1:39 pm

    IMHO though, I think it is best to be authentic. After all, I want to attract the right man FOR ME – not for some alternate personality I make up. To me, being aloof when I don’t feel aloof feels like a game. I don’t think I came on very strong at all with that guy and I really would just as soon find out he can’t handle it now, as opposed to later. Maybe a little sting to my pride, and I feel confused about it, but… he’s obviously not the guy for me, and he obviously wouldn’t be one of those guys Rori talks about in the above article that will stay with me.

  96.  #96Jacqueline on March 7, 2011 at 1:49 pm

    Hiya! Sweetpea, good to see you – waving….

    What if authentic is really annoyed because somehow every single thing we discussed when you left for the weekend is open to interpretation and now I’m confused and pissed…smile….

    Hi, Lucy – for me, authentic doesn’t equal warm and open – but from what I read we’re supposed to be so happy with ourselves we are always warm and open to guy who p.o’d us? Which is hard for me to believe really happens, but sounds really good.

    You know I haven’t read a lot of posts on how to get over anger here – maybe I’ve missed them? Just move on to feel good stuff –

    IMO, men like variety – warm and open, enthusiastic but not about them, sad, pissed….whatever is authentic. Not like, pause, re-set to warm and open and just beam at ’em. I like to always be different and ever changing with them – that seems to be very intriguing to them.

    Brenda just saying I echo Mercedes and hope you take the closure as you’ve gotten it and let it drop and move on and move quickly, getting out of the what’s really real convo and onto the how do I find the guy who’s gonna be all that for me convo!!

    and good for you – closure may be overrated, but it is a huge gift when you get it.

    you go grrrrllll…..

    Happy day, all

  97.  #97Laughing Goddess on March 7, 2011 at 1:52 pm

    Lucy: re 78

    I’m not saying that is my only requirement or preference for a life partner, but it is the foundation and if it’s not there, I don’t want to consider him as a potential mate. I will still be warm and open but I won’t feel attracted to him.

    I’m just developing this belief and open to feedback as it will help me refine.

  98.  #98Sweetpea on March 7, 2011 at 1:52 pm

    I choose to believe that it didn’t have anything to do with me at all. Maybe he met his Ms. Right and just wasn’t considerate enough to tell me. And, if he wasn’t considerate enough to tell me, then he’s not considerate enough for me.

    This is some weird stuff going on here, though. I just remembered another guy who, a couple of weeks ago, told me I’m just his type. When I responded to his email, he told me “I just made his day.” We emailed a bit back and forth, he made plans to drive about an hour to take me to lunch. Then we talked on the phone and I never heard from him the next day. I emailed him and told him it felt bad that anyone would cancel a date with me and not let me know. (CC says to radically reject unacceptable behavior if we want to facilitate shifting our vibe from attracting unavailable men. I want to shift away from that, so I stepped up rather than just letting it go). He wrote back, apologized – admitting it was rude and inconsiderate – and said he just feels we’re in different places right now and he didn’t feel a spark. So…that ups the count now to four out of four? Not much of a batting average.

    I’m going to write my own story around this though. Yes. A story. And thank my lucky stars that my time is not being wasted on guys who can’t give me therapy where I need it. And meantime, I’m gonna work on shifting my vibe. And be thankful that only guys who are attracted to the real me will contact me in the future.

  99.  #99kaitlyn on March 7, 2011 at 1:53 pm

    I’m feeling more Staten Island today than Siren Island. Blah.

  100.  #100LilyBelle on March 7, 2011 at 1:55 pm


    I know first hand how it feels to be lead somewhere the other person isn’t.

    It was the worst heartache I had ever experienced.

    I know how you feel, exactly.


  101.  #101Brenda on March 7, 2011 at 1:57 pm

    Lisi and Lucy,

    RE: #67 & #83 – Fake Proposal

    When a man consistently calls every time before he comes over, and then one morning, while you are at church, and he knows I’m reachable by text, he shows up at my house unannounced, and stays waiting for me 2 hours while I go out to lunch with a friend, having no idea he is there, and it coincides during a time when he has been dropping liberal hints that lead me to believe he is about to propose, and then I come home to find he has been there, wondering if he had been coming to surprise me with a proposal, and there is my own ring, front and center on my bathroom counter, what would you call it?

    I can provide more details if you want, very strong reasons why I believed he was days away from proposing before this incident. Is there a name for something so bizarre and so hurtful?? I don’t really care what you call it. I just called it whatever name came to mind.

    It was a total change from his usual behavior, the one and only time he came to my house without calling, even tho I had given him a key and welcomed him many times before, even invited him to stay overnight anytime he wanted. He could have called or texted me anytime during the two hours he hung out at my house, where my friend and her children were.

    This was followed up by 5 days of seeming nonchalance, and then a special meeting called to “talk”. That was when he told me, “It’s just a friendship. I’m not in love with you.”

    If he weren’t leading me on, why would he need a special meeting to tell me that?? We had just been together earlier that day, attending an outdoor event. When I nibbled his hand as he lay on the grass, couldn’t he have told me then? I mean, I could just go on and on with all that didn’t add up.

    It really was a complex relationship, and I would be explaining until I was blue in the face to lay out every little weirdism. But the fake proposal was just one of many incidents where he led me on then hurt me by telling me it was just a friendship.

    For almost every time we had an intimate moment, I was subsequently hurt. It was a cyclical pattern, which is why I am convinced it was deliberate.

    I will probably never know all that was in his mind, why anyone would lead a woman on and make a complete study of her for ten months, if romance was not what he had in mind.

    There is no way I can prove this, but my educated guess is that he was attempting to establish mind control over me. He has genius level intelligence. I read about mind control, and it is established by creating repeated incidences that cause great pain and fear to the victim. After a while, you can keep a victim under control by their anticipation of fear and pain. It’s sick stuff, but I have reason to believe that is what he was about.

    Even yesterday, he started out saying he would only continue the friendship if I agreed he never led me on for a fake proposal. I wonder if he thot my fear of losing his friendship would cause me to silently accept his lies. Who knows?

    What’s important is that I’m ready to move on. I am finally ready to say I can take him or leave him as a friend. It is an extremely unhealthy relationship, and he is not treating me right.

  102.  #102Jacqueline on March 7, 2011 at 1:58 pm

    Lisi – I noticed that I can’t really pin down femininity and it’s really cool that you got to take a class in it!

    Did you see the post on the new book about all the things women are better at?

    So, it’s like, oh, it’s receptive…but not of bs….so maybe it’s soft, but sometimes men like rough…maybe it’s creative because of babies but then oh, no men create in the world, big time…

    haha…every time I pin it down, I think of how no, it’s not that.

    anyway, interesting that I never even asked the question before I came here, I just WAS…like a fish is in water….

    and no matter how many mental gyrations I make, I still think I just AM feminine – by virtue of my birth if nothing else.

    So, I do a little better describing masculine, lol!

    But femininism as an issue worthy of study, etc. – oh, yeah, baby….we’ve come a long way and there were plenty of women who put aside all aspects of their femininity and STILL couldn’t be Vice President – because, My Go*, she’s a woman, would she really be able to bomb innocents?!! It was huge when I was early 20’s –

    And I’m pretty sure no one doubts that Hillary could nowadays.

    So, it’s a generational thing, it’s an upbringing thing, it’s a cultural thing, it’s a political thing…

    And I’ve decided Rori’s tools are Rori’s tools, not a definition of femininity – a way to be that hopefully calls to a man and makes us happy, too.

    So glad to have finished that conversation, lol – now my friend is pretty firm in his belief that guys don’t really want to grow up. So…I’ll explore that one day – althougth my ex was about as grown up as anyone I’ve ever seen – so my friend says, no he was just a spoiled boy…haha….

    It’s very interesting that the option of “growing up” wasn’t one Wendy in Peter Pan even really had – her role was to grow up, and let her daughter be the muse…

    which was fine, but Peter seems to have had all the fun…or he was just stunted?

    So much social truth in fairy tales – from the time they were written to modern interpretations –

    gonna have fun with the new Little Red Riding Hood that’s got the big bad wherewolf in it!!

    Glad you’re here, and looking forward to your posts…


  103.  #103Brenda on March 7, 2011 at 1:59 pm


    Thanks! It was the deepest hurt I ever went thru.

  104.  #104Sweetpea on March 7, 2011 at 2:00 pm

    Hey Jacqueline,

    From my understanding, we most definitely ARE supposed to let a guy know when we feel angry, it doesn’t feel good, etc. The trick is to not blame when we do. The theory being that it’s not him that has actually made us angry, but some sort of triggering in us that is causing our anger – generally based on something that happened to us long before he showed up in our lives. So it’s not that “you made me angry when you did this,” but, “I feel angry about this” and realizing that it really doesn’t have anything to do with us at all, but something that happened in the past and is triggering our anger.

    Not sure I got that all right, because I still have some confusion around it myself, but I know one of my big triggers with the last guy I dated was when he wanted me to pick him up lunch. Meaning, I buy, I fly. I let him know that it was unacceptable, but I was not clear on exactly why. One of the Sirens on here brought it to light for me in speaking about her own situation, where she said the guy understood that she has been a “giver” much of her life and she doesn’t want to be that anymore. That she’s now open to receiving. And that pretty much sums it up for me, too. Wish I’d explored that a little more when I was in the situation so I could be more concise about it.

    Hey to you, too!! 😀

  105.  #105Alonka on March 7, 2011 at 2:01 pm

    Plus from LonePlum’s analysis it really sounds like he knew he was about to meet someone at that party (or see someone he already knew), he did see her, dragged me a bit longer until he was sure she would be interested and then he dropped me.

    Perhaps he wanted to wait a bit longer, but then I called him and he had to tell me ‘he has no answer’ for us.

    Referring to #80

  106.  #106Brenda on March 7, 2011 at 2:01 pm


    RE: #96 – Right on! thanks! Yeah, ready for my new man.

  107.  #107Lucy on March 7, 2011 at 2:01 pm

    Jacqueline, I agree that authenticity involves variety. Certainly, pretending to be happy when you are actually angry is the opposite of authenticity. My point was that if you do indeed feel happy and excited to hear from him, does it sometimes turn a guy off if you express that?

  108.  #108Brenda on March 7, 2011 at 2:04 pm


    RE: #85 – You said, “I think it’s a great idea for Brenda to re-write the story of the proposal or lack thereof in a way that feels good and empowering to her. What do you think, Brenda?”

    I feel so much better after getting some closure and healing last night. I feel ready to move on now. Maybe someday I’ll write my autobiography, but right now it feels better to put my time and effort into my future, developing my P.O.P., which may or may not include an autobiography.

  109.  #109Alonka on March 7, 2011 at 2:05 pm


    Aren’t you supposed to be who you are, worry about your own feelings and not imagine ‘what a guy may think’ 🙂 -?

  110.  #110Sweetpea on March 7, 2011 at 2:09 pm


    I can sense your highly triggered and maybe even feeling hurt over the discussion of the fake proposal. I do think that it’s a good idea for you to re-write the story about this so that you feel more empowered by it. It seems to me you are thinking that Lucy and Lisi don’t think he was intending to propose and that you feel, again, like you mentioned before, that possibly they are thinking like others did, that you just read things into the situation. That is not how I took what they said at all. I really think they, like all of us, are looking for a way to help you heal around this as they see that the fake proposal really is what was most hurtful to you out of all the hurtful things he did.

    I can’t speak for them, but for me I think you had every reason to believe he was going to propose. Whether he was just screwing with your head again or not, I think it’s clear that he wanted you to believe he was going to propose.

    But the hurt is already caused, the damage is done. I think I can speak for most of the Sirens on here (I won’t say everyone, but I believe I could) and I know I can speak for me and say I really want to see your heart healed over this. I know how much of a struggle it’s been for you and I want you to feel good. To feel good about yourself and life and most importantly to feel good that you’ve overcome this milestone and block to your future happiness.

    Warm hugs!

  111.  #111Lucy on March 7, 2011 at 2:10 pm

    Hi Brenda. “I just called it whatever came to mind.” That makes perfect sense to me. So it was just my own “word purist” trigger, and I can accept that. I feel better about it now – thanks. <3

  112.  #112Sweetpea on March 7, 2011 at 2:16 pm

    Brenda, re: 110

    Sorry. I was in the middle of writing it when you posted you don’t feel a need for a re-write at this point. If you’re feeling ok about it, that’s all that matters. I’m just really happy to hear you’re in a space to move on!!!!! OMG!!!! I was beginning to fear you would be stuck on this little screwball forever. Sorry. That was judgmental. But, it seems pretty accurate to how he related with you.

    I feel really pissed to think that if mind control is really what he was all about, then it’s a possibility that the whole proposal thing was just a way to gain more control over you. Holy crap, Batman! I don’t even want to think about it. I’m just glad that you finally have what you need to move on!

    Yay, yay, yay! Yeah! Yeeaha!!! (Bouncing up and down, doing a little dance, smiling, smiling, clapping)!!!! 😀

  113.  #113Senior Lady Vibe on March 7, 2011 at 2:24 pm

    @97: Laughing Goddess

    Who wants to be adored and cherish by her man?

    [raising hand] Me.

    We can both adore and cherish me. We can both adore and cherish each other. Oooohhh, I’d like that!


  114.  #114Lucy on March 7, 2011 at 2:26 pm

    Alonks, yes, thank you. I just don’t want to be inadvertently pushing men away.

  115.  #115Senior Lady Vibe on March 7, 2011 at 2:26 pm

    Ooops again 😳

    Not to spoil it…

    113: Senior Lady Vibe says:
    @97: Laughing Goddess

    Who wants to be adored and cherishb>ed by her man?

    [raising hand] Me.

    We can both adore and cherish me. We can both adore and cherish each other. Oooohhh, I’d like that!


  116.  #116Senior Lady Vibe on March 7, 2011 at 2:27 pm

    but I did.

    Is this a sign I won’t be adored and cherished?

    Oh, no…!

  117.  #117Sweetpea on March 7, 2011 at 2:28 pm

    Hmmm. I don’t really feel like CDing right now. So maybe the Universe is just giving me what I want. I want MONEY! More than enough to meet my needs! I need money in savings, too. Yeah! How bout some of that?

    LOL! I’m tired of being broke. I don’t have to be anymore. There are times I’ve looked at the amount of money I’ve made and should have been more than enough. But it wasn’t. I truly believe that it was my attitude around money that was making it not enough. Not that I didn’t have enough. Does that make sense to anyone?

    Maybe I have that same problem with men. It’s not they’re not enough, I just need a change in perspective.

  118.  #118Jacqueline on March 7, 2011 at 2:29 pm

    Lucy – guys always seem happy when I’ve gushed, have you had some bad experiences with it? I just didn’t get that it was two different comments –

    and Sweetpea! you sound so wise, and wisecracking – little screwball? lol…

    I can see that, but sorry I don’t believe it – after years of clearing, massage school, thoughtfieldtherapy, actual therapy ad nauseum…

    naaah, when I’m triggered I’m triggered in the here and now and if a guy makes me mad he makes me mad this instance with this action….

    but I can see where it’s a learning curve and yeah – every since I did the est training 35 years ago – I’ve been made aware that we pull up “tapes” of every bad incident that relates to this incident and the emotional charge of ALL of it – so I definitely try to keep it specific and proportionate to the actual thing I’m reacting to…

    Thanks so much!

  119.  #119Senior Lady Vibe on March 7, 2011 at 2:30 pm

    @99: kaitlyn says:
    “…I’m feeling more Staten Island today than Siren Island. Blah….”

    LOL 😆

    I know. Some days I feel more hapless than happy…


  120.  #120Jacqueline on March 7, 2011 at 2:37 pm

    And, personally – today is the anniversary of March 7th, 2001 – which was when I met the 10 year man who I thought was the I’m never getting out of this man…lol…and I’ve been carrying around a LOT of what Rori’s saying here – in all actuality when I indicated I will not participate in your life, I won’t raise your grandchildren that – oh, gee – your daughter really should quit drinking and drugging and raise herself – I decided.

    But I felt bad being the bad person somehow…like if I got to walk away and find happiness and (lol, he married someone and adopted not only the grandkids but her two kids to – not like he didn’t although my friends tell me he just chose to make misery work for him with help….) he didn’t – which was all the things he’d spent 10 years telling me he wanted…

    I was a bad person, or a person who at the very least came out of the situation in a good position and I can’t even say why but it felt bad so I noticed I just kept hanging onto the “love” ….like I could prove that I really HAD LOVED him enough and then it would be okay that it just didn’t work…

    not sure to whom.

    So, I woke up this morning and thought, who am I kidding? Who cares? and what do I have to prove?

    Sheeeiiittt!!! He’s whereever he’s at, and I’m still like trying to figure out and justify and work it out and carry that love around….

    and I don’t want to. It’s done, it’s beyond re-writes, analysis, or anything else. Most especially sending him any little reminder digs!!

    I’ve got to and I get the pleasure of now creating my own happy every after without him and all that dragging down cr*p!

    I get to walk away…forever…and I don’t have to do the self punishing thing anymore.

    And then….Rori posts basically the same thing.

    My anniversary present?!

    Thank you Rori and all Sirens…

    on my anti-anniversary,

    with love,

  121.  #121Apple Jacks on March 7, 2011 at 2:37 pm

    Hi guys, er…I mean sirens lol. How is everyone? I just want to say I feel so excited and happy to see this change in Brenda. She is actually fiesty about holding Ryan accountable for the first time consistently since I have known her. YAY!

    What I took it as, she was feeling unacknowledged and unvalidated because he ferquently kept denying that any of those events even took place. He even denied borrowing her ring for weeks before returning it and dropping the bomb on her that day. I agree with you Lucy that just because a man says I love you does not mean he is in love. I see in this case though with Brenda, is that it went way beyond that. He just kept denying everything that happened…and yet he didn’t deny it…I don’t know, made me very dizzy but I digress. In the text she posted he was not denying the events, but yet he was not holding himself accountable for acting and speaking inconsistently and in turn, as I saw it, made Brenda feel like she was being played for a fool and that created a need and desire to show herself that she can stand up to this and she did. YAY. I know this post is explaining and masculine energy, but I had to “explain” today hehe.

    I cannot help but sense this huge release of burden from Bren and I feel so happy at the support she’s getting from everyone. YAAAAYYYY. This IS a good day. A new awakening. YAAAAYYYY I feel like craying and leaping and I cannot type coherently anymore lol!!!

  122.  #122Senior Lady Vibe on March 7, 2011 at 2:39 pm

    Uh-oh. Charlie Sheen Fired From ‘Two and a Half Men.’

  123.  #123Alonka on March 7, 2011 at 2:41 pm


    #114: Please don’t worry about it. Please don’t worry about ‘what they want’ – a reserved and serious girl or warm and laughing – the ‘trick’ is to really act in sync with your own mood.

    I wouldn’t play a game and not be happy when they call if I really am. I’d be friendly and playful. I’d be a flirt;)

  124.  #124Senior Lady Vibe on March 7, 2011 at 2:43 pm

    @120: Jacqueline says:
    “…And, personally – today is the anniversary of March 7th, 2001 2001 – which was when I met the 10 year man who I thought was the I’m never getting out of this man…lol…”

    This month is my anniversary too. My wedding anniversary. I won’t tell you which one so you don’t fall over and hit your head on the ground…


  125.  #125Jacqueline on March 7, 2011 at 2:44 pm

    PS – and I woke up really clear that I don’t WANT him! That felt uplifting …. now to clear the part that says I drove him away…ha!
    when I moved an hour away, into a very small house with the intention of making it too difficult to continue…

    when I did everything I could to ensure that we would indeed split up –

    believing it was in my own best good…

    and then when it happened…feeling guilty/bad over what I’d done…

    I’m just really digging it that Rori gets it and that this is not just my screwy thinking…

    others must have done it too…

    and that feels good.

    Moving on…

    keep on trucking…

    and all that!


  126.  #126Jacqueline on March 7, 2011 at 2:46 pm

    AJ!! Hiya, dahling!!! I like the way you have with words and that sounds so affirming and reality based…just sounds good.

    SLV – haha….I’m fixing to exercise so my head will be near the floor – you can tell ME…

    smiles and hugs!


  127.  #127Lucy on March 7, 2011 at 2:46 pm

    Jacqueline – adding to what Sweetpea wrote, the theory is that the Reason this guy “did that thing that made you mad” is bc the universe is giving you another opportunity to further heal the primal wound to which the current event relates. When the specific issue is fully healed inside you, the outside world will no longer need to provide these opportunities (mirrors of the inside wound). People will either no longer “do this maddening thing to you” or, if they do, it will no longer upset you.

  128.  #128Sweetpea on March 7, 2011 at 2:46 pm


    I think I understand what you’re asking: if we think sounding too excited will push them away. My answer, in a nutshell, is that it depends on the guy. If we go too far over the top and are like, “oh my God! Like, where have you been all my life?!” Then, yeah. I think that would push most any guy away. But, I don’t think, “I feel happy that you messaged me,” or, “I feel happy and excited” even would push most guys away. Maybe some of them. But, like I said, if he’s that skittish, I really don’t want to waste much time on him anyway. Do you? Is that more the kind of answer you were looking for?

  129.  #129Lucy on March 7, 2011 at 2:48 pm

    I have been amazed to witness this in my life.

  130.  #130Sweetpea on March 7, 2011 at 2:49 pm


    Well, I have been accused of being a wiseass a few times, so…as they say, if the shoe fits…(buy it)!!! LOL! Yeah, I’m feeling pretty wise today – froggy would be more like it.

    Re: the anger thing, what Lucy said. Thanks Lucy for giving more clarity on that.

  131.  #131Lucy on March 7, 2011 at 2:51 pm

    By applying that theory (with the help of TN man, who taught me it and walked me through lots of personal situations as they were happening), I was able to achieve deep healing for abandonment and shame.

  132.  #132Alonka on March 7, 2011 at 2:52 pm


    #124: No worries, I’m very well balanced;)

    I remember a line from an old movie where a character was telling a story about his aunt who got married 18 times.. not counting light flings… he said she was a real woman, so feminine, could be easily convinced into a marriage.. Here is to the woman who had a crowd of guys chasing her to convince ;P

  133.  #133Jacqueline on March 7, 2011 at 2:53 pm

    I like it Lucy and Sweetpea! but I really don’t think I’ll every be so evolved that if a man – or a woman – or a boss tells me I will do XXXXX and does not do it, I won’t be angry.

    The flip side of est – all you have is your word, you break it you have nothing of any value.

    People that break their word – even if it’s just I’ll call you before bed….

    yeah, P*SS me off big time – it totally invalidates them to me…

    not even wanting to go to where it doesn’t matter.

    Taking this stand feels better to me –

    but thanks for explaining!!

    Darling wise froggys….hmmm or would that be froggies…or frogi?!!! yodas, perhaps??

  134.  #134Apple Jacks on March 7, 2011 at 2:55 pm

    Lol Hi J. I tried to re-read my post…that’ll tach me to type a post when I’m in a hurry lol. I feel really excited for Brenda. I can’t help it!

    Hey Lucy, if you don’t mind I’d like to take a stab at your question about pushing men away. My motto is, if a man is actually pushed away by you being warm and open to him…then he’s got issues lol.

    From what I have learned, in general men love it when you are warm and open to them because that arouses the masculine energy so it should not push them away at all. As with anything, there probably are variations. If I were in your shoes, I’d flaunt my openness and warmness and throw caution to the wind and enjoy it. In other words, I’d Drew Barrymore it lol. Hope that made sense.

  135.  #135Jacqueline on March 7, 2011 at 2:55 pm

    Hi Alonka, too…and you know I’ve got to get to those squats and lunges and so…I shall take my leave to get down and dirrrrttttyyyy!!!

  136.  #136Senior Lady Vibe on March 7, 2011 at 2:59 pm

    @132: Alonka says:
    #124: No worries, I’m very well balanced;) …”

    I still won’t tell…you might slip… 😆

    “…Here is to the woman who had a crowd of guys chasing her to convince ;P …”

    Many chased but I only married one…


  137.  #137Laughing Goddess on March 7, 2011 at 3:04 pm

    SLV: it’s a sign you’ll be doubly adored and cherished 😉

  138.  #138Mercedes on March 7, 2011 at 3:07 pm

    This is absolutely something I am totally on board with. Excellent Rori!

    “A man who doesn’t want what you are will not come around unless he undergoes some major personal change – and that’s nothing you can do for him.

    The cure is Circular Dating. If this man has nothing for you – you have nothing to lose.”

    Much Love,

  139.  #139Lucy on March 7, 2011 at 3:13 pm

    Sweetpea and Alonka – thx for looking at this issue with me. Now I’m thinking that maybe the reason it’s troubling me is this: My excitement is authentic, yes. But is there a dark secret behind my excitement, causing my excitement to be disproportionate to the occasion of his contact … namely, that my life right now is not very exciting and therefore I overreact (with too much excitement in my vibe) when he thrills me with his attention. hehe. NV: “You’re such a loser.” lol, I know that’s not true. 🙂

  140.  #140Mercedes on March 7, 2011 at 3:13 pm

    Lisi: “What if he comes back and says, “I’m ready now. I wasn’t then, but now I am. Can we try it again?”

    I believe Mercedes told that happened with her guy and now they’re happy together…..”

    That’s true, it is what happened with J and I…but remember, I did not take him back right away, when I did allow him to start to come back, I continued to circular date and…most importantly…when I really took him back, I did so from a place of strength. I had made a decision based on my own feelings that I could trust him again and I slowly and carefully let him back. I was not taking him back because I missed him or because I couldn’t stop thinking about him or because I thought I could never be happy without him or for any other desperate reason. I was taking him back because we were BOTH ready to move forward and put the past behind us.

    It’s like Rori says above: “A man who doesn’t want what you are will not come around unless he undergoes some major personal change – and that’s nothing you can do for him.”

    He did undergo a major personal change. I allowed it but did not help him with it and then later (much later) I trusted that change was complete and that he was ready for me.

    Anyway…I’m all about second chances but if nothing has changed then a second chance will only give someone another chance to hurt you.

    Hope that makes sense. I’m not saying we shouldn’t take a man back after we’ve ended things if he wants us back…I’m saying tread carefully and make sure whatever needed to change to make it work a second time around has actually changed.

    Much Love,

  141.  #141Jacqueline on March 7, 2011 at 3:14 pm

    PS – not just procrastinating….

    if anyone has any thoughts on why I’d go to so much trouble to make sure the relationship would end…see, I kind of thought I would not be able to do it! so, I’d just make the situation impossible – and didn’t want to be the bad guy, well neither did he!

    and then spend time lamenting it’s ending…

    and guilty in a way like I should be lamenting…

    and then unable to find closure…..

    until I put him on my horse…..

    I’m open to them and hope to keep feeling better and better about this new thought of the day today!

  142.  #142Lucy on March 7, 2011 at 3:16 pm

    AJ, that felt good to read. I love Drew Barrymore. 🙂

  143.  #143Jacqueline on March 7, 2011 at 3:17 pm

    I get cha Lucy – well, still….men want to be adored so badly, they’d probably just think they deserve all your enthusiasm….

    but if you really want to counter it, just exhibit all sorts of enthusiasm about all sorts of things in your life.


  144.  #144Laughing Goddess on March 7, 2011 at 3:19 pm

    Hmmmm feeling sad. I feel really sad hearing someone being blamed and accused of horrible things. I feel so sad even though I don’t know the person. It feels horrible to assume the worst about someone. I want to see people through Spirit’s eyes, which I believe are always loving and seeing the best in other’s.

    It’s hard for me to see the best in someone when I am hearing them blame and not taking responsibility for their own part in it.

    How can I not feel so saddened by witnessing someone in a blaming state? Getting mad at them doesn’t work. Tried that. Offering my perspective doesn’t work. Tried that.

    So how do I let go and let that person express their experience?

    Wow! When I asked that I had a vision of doing a bunch of good things for me. That’s sounds fun.

  145.  #145Lisi on March 7, 2011 at 3:19 pm

    Sweetpea —

    Sounds like you don’t want him back, and you shouldn’t.

    When Buddhist guy tried to come back I told him in no uncertain terms that I wanted no contact whatsoever, and that, when he needed to process about that, he should CALL SOMEONE ELSE.

    I had a compelling reason to do that in his case. It was the right choice, and I don’t regret it.

    So, I support you in closing doors where you deem necessary. 🙂


  146.  #146Laughing Goddess on March 7, 2011 at 3:22 pm

    Did my nagging tasks, now I’m off to have some fun!

    Hoping to sign up for Rori’s next teleclass.

  147.  #147Senior Lady Vibe on March 7, 2011 at 3:26 pm

    @137: Laughing Goddess



  148.  #148Laughing Goddess on March 7, 2011 at 3:27 pm

    I just realized that being willing to take responsibility for our own part in what we attract into our lives is a foundational preference for who I choose to interact with in my life.

    This feels good.

  149.  #149Lucy on March 7, 2011 at 3:27 pm

    Jacqueline, the idea is that you are attracting “ppl breaking their word” bc of something needing healing inside you. I rarely experience ppl breaking their word – why does one person experience that repeatedly and another does not, ya know? I have other types of “bad” experiences – they are the ones I attract bc of what still needs healing in me. In other words, our bad experiences are custom-made, personalized for our individual healing needs.

  150.  #150Daria on March 7, 2011 at 3:40 pm

    Yay Jaqueline!

  151.  #151Laughing Goddess on March 7, 2011 at 3:41 pm

    Lucy: @149

    I’m really enjoying the way you have been expressing yourself lately. I feel as if (?) I am hearing someone who has tapped into their deep wisdom voice.

    I want whatevers she’s having.

  152.  #152Lucy on March 7, 2011 at 3:43 pm

    WOW, Mercedes, thank you thank you thank you!!! So timely! My ex-h and I have been getting along so well lately that I have felt afraid that he is my “the One” afterall. Your post is like a map and compass for me to navigate those waters wisely if it begins to go that way. Perfect! I feel much better! <3

  153.  #153Alonka on March 7, 2011 at 3:50 pm


    Me too, only married one but not that many people chased anyway:))

  154.  #154Lisi on March 7, 2011 at 4:01 pm


    Re 110 Sweetpea —

    I think she hit the nail on the head.

    I don’t doubt for a moment that Ryan was going to propose to you.

    He just freaked out. And that was EXTREMELY hurtful to you, especially as he denied he was going to.

    I’ve had some similarity with B., and I know the doubt is soooo painful. Like, maybe he wasn’t going to propose?

    I think he was. I think he really loved you. He’s just not well.

    In the same way, B. denied his emotions until I took him seriously by sleeping with someone else. He could never admit them by coming and engaging with me. I only finally got my proof of his feelings when he got so angry. It’s sad when they can’t own up to their feelings.

    I bet, if you’d gotten involved with someone else, Ryan would have flipped out, too, and you would have seen that he loved you.

    So, I hope that’s healing for you to hear. I believe you. I believe he was going to propose, and that he loved you.


  155.  #155Laughing Goddess on March 7, 2011 at 4:01 pm

    So today I have come up with two new boundaries or preferences…I’m not sure exactly what to call this. Now I exploring what that means for me. How do I take personal responsibility for my end of the equation?

    So if my #1 requirement for being attracted to a man is that he cherish and adore me…
    I can commit to doing my best to trust and respect him

    if my #1 requirement for people I interact with is that they be willing to take personal responsibility for their part in anything that they experience…
    I can commit to doing my best to take responsibility for what I attract into my life.

    If I want to attract interactions with people when they are in this kin of space, then I need to do the same. I will attract my vibrational equal.

    I also feel awed by people who can stay compassionate and not feel triggered by a situation that to me is very triggering.

    I judge myself. Why can’t you be nice like everyone else?

    Because I feel hurt witnessing this. I feel hurt and wanting to protect myself.

    Maybe other people have different triggers than me.

    This triggers memories of my mother. Lots of sadness around that. Feeling neglected as she obsessed over a man who couldn’t/wouldn’t be the man she wanted.

    Here she had this beautiful amazing gorgeous little girl in front of her and all she could talk about was him.

    And he was awful. Awful. Dirty alcoholic abusive pyromaniac psycho.

    Mmmmm, blame. There’s my blame. I knew it was somewhere.

    Wow. This is deep. This hurts. I don’t know if I’m ready to go there.

  156.  #156Senior Lady Vibe on March 7, 2011 at 4:06 pm

    @152: Lucy says:
    “…My ex-h and I have been getting along so well lately that I have felt afraid that he is my “the One” afterall…”

    😳 Could be! 😀



  157.  #157Senior Lady Vibe on March 7, 2011 at 4:09 pm

    @153: Alonka says:
    Me too, only married one but not that many people chased anyway:))…”

    Most of them chased after I didn’t decided I didn’t want to remarry.


  158.  #158Senior Lady Vibe on March 7, 2011 at 4:10 pm

    Most of them chased after I decided I didn’t want to remarry.

  159.  #159Laughing Goddess on March 7, 2011 at 4:12 pm

    I think horrible things about my abusive stepfather.

    I know there is healing in me being able to see him through spirit’s eyes. To know that ultimately he wants the same things as me…happiness, love, purpose, a connection with the divine.

    I don’t have to judge his behavior to get what I want.

    I can just observe his behavior and let it go.

    In reality, those 6 years with him weren’t all that bad. I survived it. I’m here now. Can I truly let that story go?

    I have an image of my future and my future children are standing their waiting for me. Oh my gosh, they are so beautiful. I have tears in my eyes.

    They are standing there waiting for me and I’m can’t see them because I am focused on the past. Can I let the past go and embrace my future? I really want to.

  160.  #160Aldonza on March 7, 2011 at 4:15 pm

    But! But! But! I’ve changed! Really! Look! I’m being open and vulnerable and leaning back, now get over here and notice, damnitall!!!

    LOL, we’ve all been there. God bless Rori for saying it in a way that makes sense.

  161.  #161Laughing Goddess on March 7, 2011 at 4:18 pm

    I can also see how I blame LI for my own self-created problems. He just happens to be the person closest to me so he gets the blame.

    I can also see how that pushes him away.

    It’s really hard to live someone who thinks horrible things about you.

    I suppose an enlightened person could but I imagine it’s hard for the average person.

    So yes, a great way to push someone away is to assume the worst in them.

    I want to be around people who see my light and goodness. Believe me, I’m aware of my faults. I don’t need anyone else to point them out. My NV’s do a great job of that.

    What I really need is support an encouragement, for someone to believe in me.

  162.  #162Laughing Goddess on March 7, 2011 at 4:22 pm

    When I say I need that from somebody, I feel vulnerable an needy. If I’m taking personal responsiblity, then I recognize that I need to give myself support and encouragement and then the world will reflect that back to me in countless ways.

    Reminds me of the serenity prayer.

  163.  #163Goofy Girl on March 7, 2011 at 4:23 pm

    Goofy Girl is trying so many of your techniques, including stating feelings (which has done wonders at work), keeping very busy and backing off from the guy. I can’t believe how many mistakes I made with him–most of them, except the chasing. I have repeated experience that chasing doesn’t work, and then comes the Rori advice to back off. So I did. But now I am feeling like a wreck. Tied up in a knot. I have done every trick in the book to try and make myself feel better. Journal writing. Replaying everything in my head saying the things I wish I had said. Coming up with valid reasons why this relationship is a bad idea. Coming up with valid reasons that this situation has served me very well (caused me to find the Rori resources and others!). No rational, logical conclusions have put my angst to rest. And backing off has only served to frustrate me further with each passing day. I have now butted up to the thought of contacting him out of exasperation! Frustration! Confusion! When I last talked to him 3 months ago, he asked me what this relationship was. I was so shocked that I didn’t come up with an answer. He ended the conversation with “wow, our time together went really fast”. Then he fell off a cliff and went away. I am sad. I am confused by him. I am upset with myself for all of my dumb mistakes. And I don’t know how to get to the other side of this. I feel so unresolved and incapable of moving on. Please advise on something more than circular dating to get me through this.

  164.  #164Laughing Goddess on March 7, 2011 at 4:24 pm

    Ahhhh, i feel relieved to get that out.

    I feel shy about turning this into my journal. I was flowing and that’s what came out.

    Why feel embarrassed?

  165.  #165Lisi on March 7, 2011 at 4:33 pm

    @140 Mercedes —

    Yep. That’s how I remember it.

    I agree. Not just rushing back into it out of weakness or neediness.

    That would be a bad “vibe.”


  166.  #166Lisi on March 7, 2011 at 4:45 pm

    Goofy Girl —

    I don’t know your story, but it sounds to me like he was asking where the relationship was going 3 months ago, and he didn’t get any confirmation from you that it was going anywhere.

    Did you want a future with him? Sounds like you definitely wanted to keep seeing him. Given that he was in the space that he might have wanted more (?), it might be appropriate to contact him with a simple “how have you been?” and, if you get a response, follow with, “I’ve missed you.”

    It’s not TEXTBOOK Rori, but, in your case, might be appropriate.

    What do you think?


  167.  #167Darling Ella on March 7, 2011 at 4:56 pm

    Goofy Girl #163:

    You said: “But now I am feeling like a wreck. Tied up in a knot. I have done every trick in the book to try and make myself feel better. Journal writing. Replaying everything in my head saying the things I wish I had said. Coming up with valid reasons why this relationship is a bad idea. Coming up with valid reasons that this situation has served me very well (caused me to find the Rori resources and others!). No rational, logical conclusions have put my angst to rest.”

    Well, simple put…you are still in your head thinking, rationalizing, strategizing…all which Rori advises us against 🙂

    Modern Siren is a great program to show you ways to reconnect with your inner self and femininity…:)

    Other simple ways…go outside…really 🙂 touch the leaf/branch of a tree, or grass…feel the texture…touch something close to you…how does it feel??? smooth, cold, good, comforting…show appreciation…feel the breeze…:)

    Humans are organic matter overall…getting in touch with mother nature is the simplest and the quickest way to connect with your heart and deep bottle up feelings…:)

    Warm hugs,

  168.  #168Goofy Girl on March 7, 2011 at 4:56 pm

    Lisi, Thanks for the response! I didn’t have the “feelings” statements down at the time, but I did have the “leaning back” thing down. I would like a “redo” for sure. I am not sure if he was asking “where” the relationship was going. I thought he was asking “what” is it–like “are we friends” or is this just casual or what? I just want to do the right thing, but I am having trouble sorting through what is right. I am getting closer to contacting him– but thinking that I might need to tell him what I want from a relationship, sorry if I did not give clear signals. Maybe my intuition is telling me that he was interested–and I am interested–thus my feelings of angst.

  169.  #169Lisi on March 7, 2011 at 5:05 pm

    Goofy Girl —

    Remember if you’re feeling like a wreck, he’s going to pick up on that.

    So, think about what Ella said, as well. If you start really feeling your feelings and letting them pass through, you’ll feel better.

    If you’ve got 3 months of pent up anguish — that’s gonna be toxic to him.


  170.  #170Winnie on March 7, 2011 at 5:06 pm

    91: Lucy says:
    “All – You know how we are sposed to be warm, welcoming, open, vulnerable, authentic when guys contact us? Do you think it’s possible to be too much of those things? When I hear from a guy I like, I feel excited and happy, and respond as such. That’s authentic. But is it a turn-off? If so, what’s the alternative – be inauthentic and aloof??”

    Hi Lucy, I’m still catching up on all the posts so far so I might be saying what some of the others have already said but here’s what I’m thinking about how to respond to early contact on line…talking to myself as well ; )

    It is definitely important to be authentic about what you are feeling and if you are excited that is great. Not much point even bothering if you are not feeling some sort of excitement ; ) My thought though is that it’s not necessary to tell them straight up that you “feel excited” but to just go ahead and FEEL excited and use that feeling to authentically ask him about something on his profile that intrigues/excites you. He will pick up on your vibe and that will encourage him to pursue you if he is interested. If you just say out loud that you are excited you are taking away the challenge for him and that diminishes his feeling of masculinity.

    I also find with dating sites that just viewing profiles without initiating anything is a good way of putting yourself in a guy’s line of sight yet still leaving it up to him to pursue. (That is assuming of course that the site allows them to see who viewed) I usually view a couple of times over a few days (assuming they have been active on the site) and then just leave it or it will start to look creepy!! lol

  171.  #171ConfuzzledCookie on March 7, 2011 at 5:29 pm

    Rori’s words in this new blog really hit home for me… Thanks Rori!

    I feel like she wrote this one for a few of us on here who are experiencing situations in which we needed to read these words of wisdom.

    “But most of the time – it’s not the case. If he was for YOU, he simply wouldn’t go away no matter what you did or said.

    Except for this: Your neediness as evidenced by how much you still WANT him – and that’s what has to go.

    You can do anything you want as long as it’s a lesson for you – and not about GETTING HIM BACK.”

    Attempting to catch up on 170 posts now, haha.

    Hi everyone!


  172.  #172luzydel on March 7, 2011 at 5:32 pm

    Can a man sense you are CDing? “D” contacted me this morning and asked me what did I do in the weekend, I told him and he goes like really that’s all you did, anything else?

    I am communicating with four other guys so far, but have not go on an actual date yet. I am playing the don’t ask don’t tell card here, if he ask me if I am going on other dates I will say yes, if he doesn’t I will not shove it on his face to make him come to me. This is about me. But he is acting more attentive again, so maybe he is sensing he is not the king of my world.

  173.  #173Violet on March 7, 2011 at 5:43 pm

    Re… “If he was for YOU, he simply wouldn’t go away no matter what you did or said.”

    Hear, Hear!! I totally agree!

    I broke it off with ‘W’ and am convinced more each day that it was the right decision.

    He contacted me today and we discusssed where things stood.

    Here’s where things stand. We agreed it would be best not to pursue a romantic relationship. I’m here if he needs to talk, He’s there if I need to talk.

    There is a possibility of hanging out with the understanding of drawing the line at romance.

    We still move forward, each on our own, support each others’ endevours, no hard feelings, and then let go of expectations.

    … So, I’m back where I started at the beginning of this year. I’ve reconciled to being alone and staying that way unless God intervenes with something different.

    ~ Violet ~

  174.  #174ConfuzzledCookie on March 7, 2011 at 5:48 pm

    Alonka & Sweetpea,

    Regarding the talk of a man buying you a drink…

    One time I had a man offer to buy me a drink. I genuinely didn’t want another at that time. So I politely said, “thank you, I’m good for now.” I know, I’m crazy, I should have said yes and sipped on it slowly even if I didn’t really want another.

    But get this. It was currently ladies drink free for the hour!!!!

  175.  #175Eternity on March 7, 2011 at 6:06 pm

    Been feeling quite drained, the last few days, after the tidal wave of emotions passed yet again. Feeling all the feelings got way out of control and I felt overwhelmed completely.

    This post steadied my leaning back which was so strained. Like a mast in a hurricane that I thought was going to break. I’ve felt humiliated in my own mind enough times over this imag relationship. I don’t want to do it in front of him as well. I don’t want to berate the little girl in me anymore.

    Been refocusing on me again and have been re reading the reframe Brenda gave me *hugs Brenda* on the last thread which felt really good. About what I really want to attract into my life. Been musing on manifesting a warrior poet and what that would feel like.

    The universe took me literally. The man in the reframe, and I had our first phone conversation last night. Turns out he used to be a paratrooper. My sceptical NV went off big time. Eventually I felt calm, totally girly and it was effortless talking to him. It’s like he knew the dance and we didnt trip over each other.

    I feel hopeful again. The date is in a couple of weeks as he lives out of town and is driving down here. It gives me time to regroup and refocus on myself again. It’s all up to him. Letting go of all expectations. I have others to talk to. No expectations at all. Being warm and open, I can do. It’s all that I need to do. Positive experiences are all I want from life at the moment. That call was just one more of them.

  176.  #176Laughing Goddess on March 7, 2011 at 6:11 pm

    Deep feelings and memories are coming up. I remember being the eldest child of a woman in a very dysfunctional relationship. I remember listening to her talk and complain and process about this man for years. I remember her leaving him, us going to live in a battered woman’s shelter, and me being so excited that we were finally getting out of this mess, and then she would go back to him. I felt heartbroken. It’s like her word meant nothing.

    I wanted her to want to get to know me, to ask me about my dreams.

    But she couldn’t because she was too sad about him. She couldn’t be happy without him even though she had this beautiful daughter in front of her who would have done anything to help her be happy.


    I so want to heal this. I wonder if I can reframe this. Can I find compassion for my mom?

    My little girl is hurting so badly it’s hard to find compassion. My little girl needs attention.

    Ahhhh, that feels better.

  177.  #177Laughing Goddess on March 7, 2011 at 6:14 pm

    I feel resentful. Why do I have to be the adult in this relationship? You’re the mom.

    Ugh, why does it seem like I’m always putting my needs aside for yours.

    Oh my, I really need to reframe this memory. This feels terrible.

  178.  #178Alonka on March 7, 2011 at 6:18 pm


    This is hilarious;)

    Seriously, I wouldn’t accept a drink from someone I’m definitely not interested in, or someone I met a few minutes earlier (unless we were introduced by common friends). A guy needs to make some conversation before he gets to buy me a drink. But otherwise it is their pleasure to do it if they like us, it’s their way to feel manly;) So why not to let them.

  179.  #179ConfuzzledCookie on March 7, 2011 at 6:25 pm


    Agreed, 100%!

    I’m struggling with the lean back and want to give T I’ll call him, the guy from match I’m into that I told you about my number cause I feel like I should have already. *jeopardy song plays*

  180.  #180kaitlyn on March 7, 2011 at 6:26 pm

    “But most of the time – it’s not the case. If he was for YOU, he simply wouldn’t go away no matter what you did or said.”

    Um, then why the hell are why all here?

    Why do we need to be here learning these tools if it’s a case of you can’t say the wrong thing to the right person?

  181.  #181T-Girl on March 7, 2011 at 6:31 pm

    I think I am ready to finally order Modern Siren but I am debating whether to get the CD or DVD version. I like being able to put the CD on my Ipod where it would be more easily accessible to listen too, but find I am a visual learner. Does anyone have any pros or cons on either?

  182.  #182Lucy on March 7, 2011 at 6:36 pm

    Sweetpea, I am looking at your dreams and have a couple questions. 1) You described the spider as female, really pretty, small head, large abdomen, long elegant legs. Does this description remind you of any person you know? If so, please tell me about her. 2) Did you “freak out” when the spider was in your eye, or not until you saw it dead in the sink? Thanks. <3

  183.  #183kaitlyn on March 7, 2011 at 6:38 pm


    Congrats to you!!!! Hats off to you, my diva!!!! Honestly, the convo between you two felt cringe-worthy and I went :head desk head desk head desk: every time you leaned forward, but for some reason the last thing you said worked for you.

    Maybe in some strange way, you needed to have that cringe-worthy convo to get to that point. Not advising that for everyone, but it worked for you.

    Sometimes the headline reads ‘Man Bites Dog.’

    I KNOW in my heart of hearts THAT will be the UTTERLY LAST TIME you will ever have to torture yourself to stand up for yourself to love yourself.

    Buying carrots for your horse today.

  184.  #184kaitlyn on March 7, 2011 at 6:40 pm

    I had a dream that Adam and I were having sex. Then a few nights later, I had a dream where he was sitting at a cafe with me in my old town before California.

  185.  #185Eternity on March 7, 2011 at 6:42 pm

    In the midst of all the emotional madness of the last few days, ex-h, Peter Pan, came over. He said he was concerned that I looked thin and frail when he saw me last week. He ended up staying for hours as we talked through the imag relationship.

    He talked, explained, consoled and I just tried to listen and receive the gift of his insights. Tried to use as many FMs as I could and kept it simple as I blubbered and vented. I know he has a vested interest in me being happy. I know what’s in it for him. I’m glad he is happy with someone else.

    Why didn’t he behave that way when we were married? We’ve both changed I guess. I have pangs about being good friends who never should have married. It’s not regret otherwise I wouldnt have my sons. Feeling grateful again for another positive experience.

  186.  #186Lucy on March 7, 2011 at 6:42 pm

    LG, thank you for what you wrote to/about me – it felt good to read. 🙂 I am following your memory processing with interest and compassion and feel a sense of joyful anticipation of some deep healing for you. I also feel some sadness knowing that my own children experienced some of what you described when it took me so long to really move on from their dad. 🙁

  187.  #187Alonka on March 7, 2011 at 6:50 pm


    Did he go online at all?

  188.  #188luv4ocean on March 7, 2011 at 6:51 pm

    One more lovely reminder from Rori! I can remember doing lots of chasing and getting nowhere and wondering why?

    Now I lean back and don’t have the need for wondering.

  189.  #189ConfuzzledCookie on March 7, 2011 at 6:54 pm

    Not yet love. Which is good.
    Patience, I must learn how to have it.
    Lean back, lean back, lean back…

  190.  #190Lucy on March 7, 2011 at 7:02 pm

    T-girl, I am a visual learner too, but bought the CD’s bc of cost and convenience… and I got a lot out of them. Listened while walking in the park. 🙂

  191.  #191Alonka on March 7, 2011 at 7:03 pm


    You don’t ‘have’ to give him your number;) You don’t have to be polite and ‘keep the protocol’. I think it’s ok to text him something simple, a one-liner. But just one time. Afterward it will be up to him to work to get your attention.

  192.  #192Alonka on March 7, 2011 at 7:04 pm

    I got an email on eharmony that reads:

    Sooo…I just joined this site and trying to figure out how to maneuver around. I know they suggest that I send you some questions, but I thought, that seems a bit weak, so I took it upon myself to reach out to you. I hope that’s ok…

    I like it! So I said – thanks for reaching out, it feels good;)

  193.  #193Alonka on March 7, 2011 at 7:06 pm


    ‘Buying carrots for your horse today.’

    Omg you should post here more. Please do;))

  194.  #194Sweetpea on March 7, 2011 at 7:06 pm

    Lucy, re: 129 & especially 131,

    May I ask what you’re referring to? I’m especially interested in 131 because I’m still working on healing this abandonment issue.

    re: the spider. No she didn’t remind me of anyone I know. I was mildly freaked out when I pulled her out of my eye – she was living inside it, like inside the eye socket beside my eye. Then I saw her and admired how beautiful she was. Then I flashed to her and the crawdad in the sink strainer.

    Thanks again for your help with this.

  195.  #195ConfuzzledCookie on March 7, 2011 at 7:10 pm

    Awwww, that eharmony person seems cute/sweet. 🙂 Yay!

    Let me reword that.

    I feel like I should have given it to him the other night when we were talking and I had the chance to. Now I feel like I want him to have it to use it as he pleases.

    I agree with your suggestion. I am going to try to wait for now. I’m trying to wait until after he goes back on. As long as it’s not too unbearably long. Actually I’m going back and forth between a one liner and waiting. GAH!

    I’m gonna go CD myself for the rest of this evening.

  196.  #196Alonka on March 7, 2011 at 7:17 pm


    There is no ‘lost chance’ here IMHO. He still knows your email and he can reach out on match. Also, I may be very wrong but it wasn’t his best move to suggest to call you at 2am. You responded beautifully to that btw! We don’t know, he may be a player or just someone we forget in a day. Where was he on the weekend? But I think to reach out once is ok, maybe not today, maybe during the day sometime.

    And what about other matches on match?

  197.  #197Lucy on March 7, 2011 at 7:17 pm

    Kaitlyn 180. I think she is saying that the exception is he Will go away if we are too needy (hence the tools). Also, much of what I am learning here is not for “making sure he doesn’t leave” but for making my relationships enjoyable and healthy. It doesn’t do me any good for him to “stick around no matter what” if I’m not having fun and getting my needs met in the relationship. <3

  198.  #198Sweetpea on March 7, 2011 at 7:17 pm

    Jacqueline, re: 133,

    I’m with you completely. I feel indignant when someone says they will do something and don’t. I haven’t decided exactly how I’m going to go about it yet, but I have decided that like the guy who treated me rudely and inconsiderately by not letting me know he was canceling our lunch date, I’m going to radically reject such behavior in my life.

    And I have the perfect opportunity to do so. OG says he’s in love with me, but he has not yet made plans in advance with me and kept them. He was going to take me to a wedding with him on Valentine’s Day weekend. When the day came, he didn’t call and wouldn’t answer his phone. Most recently, we were going to go to breakfast yesterday morning. He said he would pick me up at 10. I didn’t even call him that day. There have been a few other instances as well. I saw him today and I was pleasant and said “hi” to him, but I was ready to leave. So I left. And just said “Bye” as I walked out the door.

    I’m just not exactly sure how to handle it. If I was dating him, I would have had it out with him by now. I did tell him I was sad and angry that I didn’t get to go to the wedding. I haven’t said anything at all to him about yesterday. It didn’t really bother me, other than not keeping his word. But I do think he has a rather unique way of showing me that he loves me. If actions speak louder than words, I’m getting the message loud and clear. I don’t want him to be in love with me, so I don’t know whether to bring it up or just let it go, but there’s a part of me that wants so badly to say, “you say you love me, yet you’ve made plans with me numerous times and never kept them. That doesn’t feel like love to me.” Blamey, I know. Like I said, not sure what I’m going to do. But I’m sure I’ll get a chance to figure it out pretty soon. I suspect it won’t be long before he calls.

  199.  #199Sweetpea on March 7, 2011 at 7:21 pm

    Apple Jacks,

    I love this…”…if you don’t mind I’d like to take a stab at your question about pushing men away. My motto is, if a man is actually pushed away by you being warm and open to him…then he’s got issues lol.”

    That, for me, is it in a nutshell. And thanks, I needed to hear it, too.

  200.  #200Boomer on March 7, 2011 at 7:21 pm

    Hello, my lovelies! How I’ve missed you! I need to do some good reading of the posts, but I love Rori’s article. I have accepted as my mantra the following:

    “If he was for YOU, he simply wouldn’t go away no matter what you did or said.”

    Basically, you can’t say the wrong thing to the right man.

    How eye opening. I don’t have to DO anything to be loved. I have had to reprogram myself completely. But that sentence was like a light switch, and I changed almost instantaneously. Wow.

    Still learning, but, wow. I have some questions, about what’s going on with AlphaMale, but I’ll save them for the next post.

    I missed you guys!

  201.  #201Alonka on March 7, 2011 at 7:23 pm


    Yes, I thought you were way to busy dating him these days!

  202.  #202Eternity on March 7, 2011 at 7:25 pm

    Been looking through a lot of online profiles today. Many guys seem to mention that they want the quality of ‘loyalty’ in a girl.

    I feel a bit put off by this. Trying to work out why this feels bad to me.

    Loyalty to me is what soldiers have for their superiors or dogs have to their masters?? Meaning that they put their own needs aside, do what they are told, to serve or follow orders at all costs.

    Do they mean fidelity? I’d be interested to hear what others think or feel about this. What does/has loyalty meant to you in relationships??

  203.  #203kaitlyn on March 7, 2011 at 7:25 pm


    Here’s what I do about men that call at 2am:

    I don’t answer the phone. BUT I call the next day around late morning/afternoonish and say, “Oh, hey there. Saw that you called. Just giving you a call back.”

    Totally annoys them. HAHAHAHA.

  204.  #204Sweetpea on March 7, 2011 at 7:26 pm

    Mercedes & Lisi re: 140

    I had already decided that he wouldn’t be able to just pop back into my life because I missed him. I like your take on this and feel like I was on the right track. However, at this juncture, I’m not sure there is anything he could say or do that would convince me that he’s changed enough. “Does a leopard change his spots?” comes to mind. This seems like a character flaw to me. Maybe he’ll surprise me, I’m open to that, but I have no idea what he could do to convince me.

    Thanks for your input Mercedes.

  205.  #205Lucy on March 7, 2011 at 7:27 pm

    Winnie, thanks for adding your insights re: my question about excitement. Good points. I appreciate your help. <3

  206.  #206kaitlyn on March 7, 2011 at 7:28 pm

    “Been looking through a lot of online profiles today. Many guys seem to mention that they want the quality of ‘loyalty’ in a girl.”

    Ugh TRIGGER. My NVs are telling me, “NO MAN wants a woman who will leave them because money’s tight and some dude offered her phat cash to whore again. Adam doesn’t want you. You were not loyal.”

  207.  #207ConfuzzledCookie on March 7, 2011 at 7:31 pm

    I suppose you’re right about the 2 am thing, but idk. His exact words were, “Hey since we’re both up can I just give you a call? I just got home.”

    It’s possible, he could be.
    Or he could have been turned off by my having said:

    “I think I’m actually going to go to bed now. My third, maybe even fourth wind of the day has come, gone, and passed. Are you Verizon? I’m just curious.


    Ohhh okay, I was just wondering. I have this old school cheapy plan and I don’t have unlimited texting, which is lame, but because of that I don’t even do hardly much of any texting anyways.”

    Or I could be overanalyzing it.

    There’s that one who is younger. *shrug*

    And another who I’m also “whatever” about.

  208.  #208Darling Ella on March 7, 2011 at 7:31 pm

    Kaitlyn #203

    “BUT I call the next day around late morning/afternoonish and say, “Oh, hey there. Saw that you called. Just giving you a call back.”

    Totally annoys them. HAHAHAHA.”

    It feels bad to read…sounds like mind games…this is exactly what i want to stay away from…it’s not authentic and honest…also Rori says dont call back unless he leaves a voice message asking for you call him back…

  209.  #209ConfuzzledCookie on March 7, 2011 at 7:34 pm


    We were emailing back and forth at that exact time, and then he asked to call.

    Check out my post #207.

  210.  #210Sweetpea on March 7, 2011 at 7:34 pm

    Lisi, re: 145,

    I can’t say I’ve closed the door. Like I said, I’m open to being surprised. I just have to say that it really would be a surprise, cuz I can’t think of anything. I have heard that he’s changed alot in the last year though and is much less combative than he used to be. Plus, the couple who were his roommates are moving out. I contribute alot of things going badly with us to the female of the couple. She’s a s*#t stirrer herself and for some reason took an immediate disliking to me. It wasn’t mutual, but now she’s pulled some stuff, like talking smack about me to new people I meet, that has me feeling some animosity toward her. So, I won’t say he’s not capable of changing enough, just that I’m skeptical.

  211.  #211Alonka on March 7, 2011 at 7:36 pm


    #207: What you replied to his 2am call offer was absolutely funny and cute;) Very smart boundary setting, but warm and friendly at the same time. He should want you MORE for this , not less;)

    And your texting plan should make him want to overcome it and reach out to you anyway.

    Really, 3 guys on I thought it was the most popular site in the country;)

  212.  #212kaitlyn on March 7, 2011 at 7:38 pm


    Ah, I had no idea you were emailing back and forth at that time.

  213.  #213Sweetpea on March 7, 2011 at 7:40 pm


    You said, “So yes, a great way to push someone away is to assume the worst in them.” Wow! Guilty! Thank you for putting this out there. I see where I have done this many, many times. Putting it to words is like shining a light on it, pinpointing it for me so I can heal it. Thank you so much!

    Sorry to hear you’re hurting tonight. Hugs and healing to you.

  214.  #214ConfuzzledCookie on March 7, 2011 at 7:42 pm



    And I agree, you’re right on that.

    I could send a reply the email in which he asked to call, or a one liner text, or just wait.


  215.  #215Sweetpea on March 7, 2011 at 7:49 pm


    I feel curious about why you think a man needs to make conversation before he can buy you a drink. That’s how it generally seems to work for me, but I see no reason for it to be a prerequisite. If he wants to just buy me a drink and not converse with me, I’d be cool with that too.

  216.  #216Alonka on March 7, 2011 at 7:52 pm


    #206: People write whatever in their profiles, really. Some believe it, but doesn’t mean they live by it. I know someone who wrote he wanted marriage only in his profile – he goes out with a new girl every month for the past 3 years that I know him. Why? Girls are not good enough, each has some flaw. The same person said ‘hope my match realizes that relationships take work’. I thought he was joking when he showed it to me, but he wasn’t!

    No one is gonna say they want someone disloyal;) But perhaps you may consider to start believing in process, in your connection. sounds like you had the real thing.

    He prob does want you and is mad at himself for this. Torn apart, busy, worried about his dad. Be brave, hold the fort on your side;) If you shoot for the real thing, which is rear, no choice but to let it happen – imo;)

  217.  #217kaitlyn on March 7, 2011 at 7:56 pm


    Thank you. As I imagine LONEPLUM wearing a black Gucci suit and sitting at a table with my platonic male friends, all shouting, “GET IT THROUGH YOUR THICK SKULL!!!! HE DOESN’T WANT YOU. MOVE ON, YOU DUMB ASS!!!”

  218.  #218Sweetpea on March 7, 2011 at 7:58 pm


    This is just my take and not something I’ve put alot of thought into, but my first thought whenever I read this is that they have an ex-wife or ex-gf who cheated on them. So I’ve always thought of it as meaning fidelity (and steered away from them b/c I feel it would be an almost guaranteed battle to cd a man like that).

    I haven’t ever thought of it as meaning they want a woman who takes orders though. I suppose that could be part of it, but I am loyal to many people, particularly my friends and I sure don’t take orders from them. (I don’t take orders well from anyone). To me, it simply means that they are my friends and I look out for their best interests. As in, if I hear someone talking smack about my friend, I let the person know that they are my friend and I don’t want to hear that. I simply watch out for their well-being and feel respect for them. I’m not really sure how to explain it. Gonna have to go see what the dictionary definition is.

    Curious to see if anyone else has different feedback.

  219.  #219Alonka on March 7, 2011 at 7:58 pm


    #215: To me buying a drink is a sign of courtship (or a friendly gesture from someone I know for a while). If I accept it means I agree to his advances. So if I’m not interested, I’d rather not lead them on. The same idea – why would I accept a sign of courtship from someone who I don’t know, i.e. the one I never talked to?

    I don’t know if I’m making this clear:)

  220.  #220Sweetpea on March 7, 2011 at 8:00 pm

    Here’s one definition: Loyalty connotes sentiment and the feeling of devotion that one holds for one’s country, creed, family, friends, etc.

  221.  #221kaitlyn on March 7, 2011 at 8:00 pm


    I view a man’s definition of loyalty as fidelity and someone who has their back.

  222.  #222Chrissy on March 7, 2011 at 8:01 pm

    “And sometimes, you can’t let that go until you’ve humiliated yourself with some kind of finality”

    I’ve humiliated myself so many times and I knew it. But yet, I still go back humiliating myself again n again !! Aarrgghhh

  223.  #223Boomer on March 7, 2011 at 8:06 pm

    AlphaMale has kind of turned out to be anything but! LOL!

    Sweet guy, I like him, but he’s showing signs of “instant relationship.” And confidence issues/insecurities,

    And those things are what they are I can work with those things and just be open and accepting as we get to know each other–and draw any boundaries when I feel uncomfortable.

    But he is really having issues with my leaning back. He has said a few times that I am obviously smart and witty and “together”: why am I not contributing more to decisions about what we do, why am I always offering up these feelings that mean more work for him. It’s been kind of funny, actually, how he’s seeing what I’m doing and calling me on it a little.

    For example, he has gotten frustrated that I do not tell him what I want to do for dates. He’s so terrified that he’ll choose the wrong thing that will bore me and he’ll feel like he screwed up. I told him I’d feel happy to do anything he plans–and that as we get to know one another “what to do” will become clearer and simpler.

    He is very concerned about his propensity to do too much for a woman he’s involved with, so he was conscious of my asking him to change a light bulb when he was here and “allowing” him to pick up the check each time. He has commented that he suspects I’m not “a shy flower” type of woman and that I do have thoughts and opinions and he’s surprised I am so “mellow” (read: “lean back”).

    And he kinda doesn’t like it.

    How does this translate? Is it possible that men are resistant to us leaning back rather than subconsciously embracing it like Rori and John Gray and Evan Katz say? Do they resent it when they kinda figure out that we are consciously reveling in our feminine energy around them and that it means more work for them?

    Is Alpha kinda lazy? Is he just not used to a woman who is in the moment and just being and not doing?

    What do you all think? What’s the Siren wisdom on what reaction men and certain types of men have to us when we are Sirens?

  224.  #224Alonka on March 7, 2011 at 8:11 pm


    Did LonePlum tell you this? I must have missed something. Are you looking for an advice on what to do? Do you want to move on? Do you want to CD other men, stay alone, go on with the rest of your life, understand something about yourself? Do you know what you want yet?

    I have a better idea of what I want since I joined the blog. I’m still not there, but I feel that I’m making some progress. I feel more confident, calm and understand myself better. Perhaps I will still go numb if a guy slaps me in the face, but I think that now I will bounce back within minutes and would know what I want and how to express it. So I’m happy so far, keeping on the right track;) But that’s about healing my problem.. what’s yours?

  225.  #225Sweetpea on March 7, 2011 at 8:12 pm


    Interesting. To me, a man buying me a drink is a sign of interest if I’m not chatting with him. A way to get my attention and let me know he’s interested. If it’s someone I’m already talking to, I take it as nothing different than they would do for a friend. Guys buy each other drinks all the time. Regardless, if they are interested, I consider it CDing. If I’m interested in taking things further then I’ll agree to a date and will give them my number. Most of the time, they don’t even ask me out. Sometimes we exchange numbers. I’m pretty much open to CDing whomever is in front of me, so unless they really creep me out, so I guess it’s just not really an issue for me.

  226.  #226Alonka on March 7, 2011 at 8:16 pm


    What if go to some extreme here – say, they offer you jewelry without knowing you – would you take it?

    On the other hand, I’d take flowers from anyone;)

  227.  #227Sweetpea on March 7, 2011 at 8:23 pm

    LOL! This reminds me of when I was telling my ex-bf about a guy way older than me who bought me a drink and then kept touching me. I kept moving his hand, but he started touching my hair and acting like he thought we were in a relationship. He even went so far as to tell me I should grow my hair out because he likes long hair. I finally told him that I was feeling uncomfortable and asked him to stop touching me.

    My ex-bf’s friend told me if he bought me a drink, he’d be wanting to touch me too. Funny thing is, he bought me many drinks and never laid a finger on me.

    Here is my issue on this. In my hometown, I had a male friend buy me a few drinks one night. We sat and chatted and when it was time for me to go, I closed my tab. My friend had no expectations around this, he was simply buying me a couple beers because we were friends. When I got my tab, the bartender had put a few of my friend’s beers on my tab. I asked him to take them off. He asked, “You can’t buy Ray a few beers?” I said, “Did I ask you to buy Ray any beers?” He said, “No. Are you gonna give him some tonight then?” I felt really pissed and told the bartender, “Ya know what? I’m not a hooker. And if I was, it would cost a lot more than a few beers. Take them off my tab, please.” And THAT is where I stand on it. My friend thought it was hilarious, but oh man, was I mad!

  228.  #228Sweetpea on March 7, 2011 at 8:26 pm


    Jewelry is a hell of alot more expensive than drinks. And I don’t see guys buying their friends jewelry. So no, I probably wouldn’t take jewelry from a stranger. A drink is less expensive than flowers, so you tell me… What makes a drink different than flowers? I would tend to accept the drink before the flower, but I’ve accepted roses from strangers. It’s a gift. The goddess does not have to put out because a man bought her a gift. Again, I wouldn’t accept jewelry though. LOL

  229.  #229Sweetpea on March 7, 2011 at 8:29 pm

    And, on the other hand, I’ve had guys act like we were in a relationship simply because I sat and chatted with them. But that doesn’t mean I don’t talk to men unless I’m interested in them for a relationship. I love chatting with men. Or women, or whoever.

    OMG! A lesbian bought me a shot! You don’t suppose she expected me to go home with her, do you?! LOL! Sorry. Sarcasm. No, she didn’t. She didn’t expect me to give her my number or date her, either. She bought me a shot because she is my friend.

  230.  #230Alonka on March 7, 2011 at 8:31 pm


    Yes, complicated;) Your story is hilarious though, I agree!
    Ok, maybe this: you’re saying that ‘guys buy each other drinks’. But I don’t want to be treated as a buddy! I want to always be treated like a girl. If someone treats me as a buddy I start thinking – where is the mirror, do I look alright:) -? So I guess flowers from a stranger is the most romantic thing, but drinks/dinner are not:)

  231.  #231Alonka on March 7, 2011 at 8:37 pm

    It’s quite late on the east coast, going to sleep:) Good night everyone!

  232.  #232Becky on March 7, 2011 at 8:38 pm

    This is such great advice, and I’m so glad that in the recent past, I haven’t pursued men who pulled away because I just figure I’m better off without me, and if a man has disappeared, he’s probably doing me a favor in the long run.

    I do have a favor to ask of the Sirens here: I’m feeling “stuck” in the city I’m living in. I don’t have a good paying job, and I’m in a very religious city (a lot of Mormons- good people but they marry very young) and there just aren’t a lot of opportunities for me to find someone. I also keep hearing that I should be better off financially before looking for love, but I have searched and searched for work around here, and I’ve come up empty handed. So, I’m contemplating moving to a completely different city. Has anyone done this before? I have actually lived abroad but I’m scared of how to go about looking for work, and I wonder if I’m a little kooky for thinking I could find more available men in another city…any feedback would be great.

  233.  #233Sweetpea on March 7, 2011 at 8:40 pm


    You are entitled to your belief, however I’ve already done alot of thinking and healing around this. If a man thinks I’m going to go home with him because he bought me a drink, then I need to work on raising my Degree of Difficulty. Men buy their friends drinks, they buy women they’re interested in drinks. They buy women they are interested in, but who will never be anything more than friends and they know it, drinks. I don’t feel at all like I’m leading a man on if I accept a drink from him. As a matter of fact, I rarely have a choice in the matter. I order a drink, they pay. Sometimes they don’t. It doesn’t matter to me either way. I’m appreciative if they buy me a drink and I always thank them. I even had a guy get me a cab home one night. But, he has never asked me out.

  234.  #234Sweetpea on March 7, 2011 at 8:45 pm


    I feel jealous that you’ve already got the “no chasing” thing down. Good for you.

    I feel curious about why you would need to be better off financially before looking for love. Seems to me that having a life partner would make one more financially stable, so why wait? Just my opinion.

    As far as moving goes, no, I don’t think anyone on here will say you’re kooky for considering it. As a matter of fact, Rori has encouraged others in a land of “slim pickings” to pack up and go somewhere she’d have a better chance of finding love. As far as how to go about it, do you have any friends or family in another city that you might be able to stay with while you get a job and get settled in?

  235.  #235Sweetpea on March 7, 2011 at 8:50 pm


    I recently relocated. It wasn’t so I’d have the opportunity to meet more men, but I do have a friend I’m staying with here. One thing I would suggest is to check out jobs online before you venture out. Maybe even apply for a few to see what kind of results you get. I’ve had a tough time finding a decent job here. Doesn’t sound like you’re making enough to really save up some money, but I would save as much as I could before I made the leap too.

    You can also research the cost of living online to see if the pay for your jobs in a new city would make it feasible to have a good life there.

  236.  #236Alicia on March 7, 2011 at 8:57 pm

    HI! I’m alive.. standing and breathing, steady pulse rate. Taking it one day at time.

    Today I feel hopeful 🙂

    I have three interviews tomorrow.. Lots of change in the air.

    Great Article!!! Wish I knew then, what I know now. But, happy to be in complete understanding of the non-over giving in the present!!

    p.s. –
    About the dating blog pole.. I feel a wierd sense that it’s totally rigged or the numbers are plain off.

    The chick with the highest votes (like 4,000) seriously?

    Is it just me or odd that her articles only have like 10 comments or hits under each post? That just didnt make sense to receive that many votes. Not for so few comments and the articles where average.
    Just my opinion….

    I swear to my girlfriends by Rori’s blog and videos!
    She is the winner in my eyes! Best love medicine there is.

    Side effects include:

    Total transformation
    Increased self esteem
    Increased self worth
    Ability to set boundries
    Inceased dating life
    Ability to recieve and relax
    Raid love heart beat
    Increased feminity
    Soul mate on the horizon
    Passion and attraction!

    That is the real deal.. winner

  237.  #237ConfuzzledCookie on March 7, 2011 at 8:59 pm

    “Someone once said that when you don’t know what to do, do NOTHING!”

  238.  #238Boomer on March 7, 2011 at 9:01 pm

    Becky, I have not moved to get out of a nothing-for-me city, but if I could I would. I’m stuck where I am because of the kids’ dad is here and I do not want to take them from him–in fact, he would probably fight me if I tried.

    BUT if I were young and single and had nothing really tying me to where I lived, I’d be gone!

    Research your options and consider it seriously, I say!

    And as for needing to be more stable financially, you may find better job opportunities elsewhere too.

  239.  #239Alicia on March 7, 2011 at 9:02 pm

    From The Secret Daily Teachings
    When a big change occurs in your life it forces you to change direction. Sometimes the new path may not be easy, but you can be absolutely certain that there is magnificence for you on the new path. You can be absolutely certain that the new path contains things that you could not have experienced otherwise.

    When we look back at a negative event that occurred in the past, we often see how in fact it transformed our life. We see how that event directed us toward a life that we would not change for anything.

  240.  #240Sweetpea on March 7, 2011 at 9:22 pm


    Greetings! I feel relieved to hear from you. I was worried about you, as the last time I remember seeing you on here you were sounding pretty hopeless. Good to hear things are looking better for you. Good luck on your interviews tomorrow!!

    As to the voting, anyone can vote and you get one vote per day. I don’t know if all of the Sirens knew that, so it probably is skewed quite a bit. I’ll do what I can though, and vote for Rori again tomorrow.

    Again, glad to see you here and to hear things are looking brighter for you.

  241.  #241Brenda on March 7, 2011 at 9:26 pm


    Re: #110 – Thank you! I got that healing last night! I feel so free today! I no longer feel connected to the pain of the fake proposal!

  242.  #242Sweetpea on March 7, 2011 at 9:42 pm


    Yeah. I saw that right after I posted it. Did you see #112? Happy to hear you feel free today! THAT, my friend, is aaawesooome!

  243.  #243Brenda on March 7, 2011 at 9:44 pm


    RE: #112 – You said, “Yay, yay, yay! Yeah! Yeeaha!!! (Bouncing up and down, doing a little dance, smiling, smiling, clapping)!!!!”

    LOL! Thanks! Ok, I understand you were writing when I wrote that I was broken free from the pain. I get a fresh start. And you know what? Even tho I have spent a lot of time in pain, I choose to look at the positives: I found Rori, and all of you, and I have learned so much about relationships, and gone thru so much inner healing, and made so many wonderful friends! Thank you!

  244.  #244Brenda on March 7, 2011 at 9:49 pm

    Apple Jacks,

    RE: #114 – you said, “I cannot help but sense this huge release of burden from Bren and I feel so happy at the support she’s getting from everyone. YAAAAYYYY. This IS a good day. A new awakening. YAAAAYYYY I feel like craying and leaping and I cannot type coherently anymore lol!!!”

    Awww, thank you! I feel so supported! Yes, and like Gingersky said last night, it’s like a new birth. That pain had me in a strangle hold. Today I feel like I honestly don’t care if he ever contacts me again or not. Thanks so much, Apple Jacks!

  245.  #245Late Bloomer on March 7, 2011 at 9:57 pm

    Big big thank you to Rori and her programs – pathetically late bloomer here, head over heels in love for first time in my life, and the guy goes awol right after the most amazing two days ever. Nine days of black hole. Nine days of “what happened?!” (to myself), devastated tears, yadda. So today I send him a note saying I’m done, deleting his info so I can’t contact him again even if I want to, but that bc I feel kind of ignorant, could he please just let me know what happened so I can take it as a life lesson. (Not textbook Rori, but… )

    Bam – he IMMEDIATELY texts back asking what is going on, and I use my feeling statements, I want, I don’t want, etc… and just, wow. I was completely mentally in the “over it” place. Instead, he ended up contacting me 7 times in a matter of hours, confirming his understanding of the want/don’t want preferences.

    The most amazing bit was when I fell back into my pleaser/overfunctioning mode, and changed the subject to make him feel better/ ease his mea culpa/declaration conversation, he redirected the conversation back to what *I* needed, to making *me* feel better.

    Rori wrote that nurturing is the man’s job, and that when we do it for them, they don’t like it. I was too intimidated/worried to tell him openly that I was feeling hurt by his distance, so I went into Flight mode (opposite of her advice). He flat out said that all I needed to do was a direct 30 second let him know how I was feeling and he’d fix it.

    I am floored how very specifically applicable, accurate and effective Rori’s advice has been. The best part being that its not game-playing or manipulative. Its about being true to our feelings, honest with our communication. And frankly, the upside of a hurdle like this is that it cements your wants/don’t wants with your partner. No secret agendas/disappointments. If he sticks around, its because he is willing to be who you want, giving you what you need. Not the other way around, that we as the women have to tamp down, decide to give up on having that need met in order to keep the relationship. Its so healthy – lol!

    I thought any future with the most amazing man I’ve ever met was impossible. Thanks to her advice we are back on track.

    Thank you 😉


  246.  #246Lercomari on March 7, 2011 at 9:59 pm

    If you ladies could help me…I have a friend. He’s a close friend and I love him very much. He loves me too, but he’s not committed to me. We’ve been sexually intimate, but he still considers me a “friend.” He isn’t at a point in life where he can or will commit. So I discovered Rori and started setting boundaries. I stopped declaring my love and contacting him all the time…
    well the problem now is that we’re both very sexually attracted. And I want to take sex off the table, but I don’t see how we can go backward on this since we’ve already had sex. I try not to mention sex but he still jokes about honestly it makes me feel good…but I want to restrain myself. I love him and want to be with him one day but this sex thing may sabotage my dreams.
    Can you give me advice? Thanks.

  247.  #247Brenda on March 7, 2011 at 10:06 pm

    (My last post was supposed to be about #121 – Apple Jacks)


    RE: #154 – You said, “I don’t doubt for a moment that Ryan was going to propose to you.

    He just freaked out. And that was EXTREMELY hurtful to you, especially as he denied he was going to.”

    I appreciate your words, and it could be, but I don’t think he intended to. I think he intended to test me, at the very least, or, as I mentioned, possibly establish mind control over me. I will probably never know, but…

    …I have this solace: a gift from God, really….two weeks after the proposal incident, I called Ryan, just desperately needing to know WHY, why, why he did it – what was in his heart? When I called, our phones connected, and somehow he didn’t know I was on the line!!

    I sat on that phone for 2 hours! For the first hour, it was apparently in his pocket, and I could hear him walking, walking, walking. Finally my patience paid off, and the second hour, he started praying in his car, while he played, “I’m on Fire” 5 times in a row! The context of his prayer, as he was talking out loud to God, was, “What should I do about the proposal incident?” In the midst of many things he said, the most significant was, “Brenda, ‘I do’, right? You accept, right?”

    I got the impression he was regretting the fake proposal, perhaps beating himself up, that if he had truly proposed, I would have said yes.

    Shortly after that, he said, “Don’t I deserve a little respect?” I wondered if he thot I thot he was a pushover. He kept saying, “What should I do? Show me what to do!” Then, “Should I do nothing at all? Be utterly indifferent. Utterly indifferent.”

    Even tho it didn’t give me all the answers, this unusual opportunity to listen in on his prayer gave me a lot of insight into Ryan’s heart, and, even tho it wasn’t all what I wanted to hear, it gave me a lot of comfort to have at least some clue of what was going on in his mind and heart, and that perhaps, he regretted not giving me a real proposal.

    He lost my trust.

  248.  #248Lercomari on March 7, 2011 at 10:09 pm

    @ Late Bloomer #245

    Thanks for sharing your story…it’s amazing that Rori’s tools work so well in situations that would otherwise seem hopeless or desperate.

  249.  #249Jilly on March 7, 2011 at 10:09 pm

    hey Sirens…just dropping by to say hello and goodnight! 🙂 since it’s been a few days…

    have a CD ski date tomorrow with the pilot (i haven’t come up with a name for him yet) (mr.easygoingcoolguy? ;)…i feel will be our second date and it’s snowed a ton tonight

    i was CDing supersmartguy yesterday and it felt good..but i started feeling guilty cause i knew pipeliner would be calling…

    i really want to get over the guilt..i’m starting to feel bored with this LDR…i don’t see it going anywhere…and even if he stepped up i’m not sure i want what he’s offering??? that feels bad…where do i go from here???

    part of me thinks i should end it because it’s keeping me from being open to other CD’s that are HERE in my city? i’m not sure I can just let it fade…this is something i need to…???think about???NONO i don’t need to think about it…loneplum said it in 80# i think…i won’t have to worry about what to say cause the man will make it easy?? somethin awesome like that!!

    actually…cookie wrote in 237# “if you don’t know what to NOTHING”

    k i feel good with that….until the guilt comes in

    fine..i didn’t want to go deeper but maybe i need to…to be able to sleep?

  250.  #250Jilly on March 7, 2011 at 10:16 pm

    i feel guilty cause:

    i don’t know if pipeliner knows i’m keeping my options open?
    i don’t want to hurt him
    i don’t want to hurt me
    i want to speak my truth…i feel unsure if I am??? (that’s a weird feeling too)
    I feel bad…like I need to confess???
    i feel guilty like i’m a cheater
    i feel guilty like a player
    i feel selfish
    what about my needs?
    i have good intentions
    i dont want to hurt anybody
    i want the best for everybody
    i want to feel free of guilt
    i don’t want to care about his feelings
    i want to express my feelings
    i feel afraid to express my feelings
    my feelings feel yucky and mucky
    i want to push them down and not talk about them
    i feel tightness in my tummy
    black and grey swirling
    dark blue
    i feel sadness

  251.  #251Brenda on March 7, 2011 at 10:19 pm


    Re: #246 – I find that getting to know each other without sex clarifies real feelings well. Altho Ryan and I played sexually some (if I had it to do over again, I wouldn’t have even done that), we never had sex. I admire how he handled that, and he is the one who set the boundary there.

    Many of our dates consisted of cuddling and pillow talk! At first, I lay there barely able to restrain myself sexually. But as time went on, holding back felt arousing in itself, building sexual tension! He made it very clear he intended to get to know my heart and mind and spirit above all. I felt so valued that we spent hundred of hours simply talking. I never felt so understood, and I know from now on, a major gauge of any new man will be, “Do I feel understood?” It felt delicious!

    If I were you, I’d have a discussion something like this, and maybe tweak them to your situation. I think they were written by Boomer:

    “oh, I don’t kiss people who are just friends. My heart and my body are a package deal. I’ve tried to separate them, but they love each other too much. And they love me too much to leave me unless it’s in exchange for a man’s heart.”

    “I would feel safer/better avoiding too much talk about sex too soon, although it’s clear that we are both very intense in that area, and the temptation to share with you my thoughts and feelings about it is strong, but…cart before the horse and all that. I feel so comfortable talking about so many other things with you. What do you think?”
    He replied that he agreed, but then went on to write two fairly graphic–albeit playful–paragraphs about wanting to kiss me and fondle me and so on…and so I said:
    “I’m still feeling good about our ‘I can be me with you and you can be you with me’ vibe. But I do feel a little unheard–although I appreciate your playfulness and feel a definite cool attraction to you–two paragraphs of sex talk after I pretty clearly established a boundary? Icky. I feel so much more at ease meeting if I’m not afraid a man is focused on sex. I was enjoying our dynamic of focusing on things other than sex. I’d feel better having that for a little while longer. What do you think?”

    I would focus on using feeling statements and I want/don’t want statements to set your boundaries.

  252.  #252Jilly on March 7, 2011 at 10:20 pm

    so i’ve pinpointed it…

    i feel afraid to express my feelings
    i feel afraid of confrontation and not sticking up for myself…(like i can date but you cant kind of thing)
    i feel bad not expressing my feelings

    then that turns into guilt? i guess?

  253.  #253Brenda on March 7, 2011 at 10:22 pm


    RE: #175 – Yay! I am happy for you! Glad it went well, and glad the reframe helped!

  254.  #254Jilly on March 7, 2011 at 10:22 pm

    i feel ok to express my feelings usually…it’s just this one thing with pipeliner..

    I’m EFFING dating other men ….there that’s all i need to say lol case closed

  255.  #255nanceen on March 7, 2011 at 10:24 pm


    I read what you said about me but I cant find it again ….I know I wanted to say something positive….this blog is amazing…I get overwhelmed sometimes, I want to advise everyone, I feel elated when someone responds, I want to throttle some of the men I hear about. I have to tear myself away sometimes, I cant keep typing and staying up so late. I vent here. Eventually someone notices…it helps…I think of the other women I read about during the day as I go about my business, hoping for them, wondering if they are okay, will they make it.

    What is amazing is the common thread. there are women on this blog ranging from 18 to 70, highschool dropout to phd. The pain and longing and joys are the same. When I am out and about in the world I often wonder “is that a Rori girl?” Is she on the blog? I have been wanted to make a t-shirt that reads “Rori Raye spoken here”

    No matter how hard I try I never ever see a little girl inside of me. I cant daydream it, see it, feel it nothing. I tried to see her because everybody talks about how great and sweet it is but ick, I like being an adult. I dont want any comments on trying to get in touch with her. It doesnt work. It feels weird. I like being me now. Its all I got. I do not want a comment about this. Thank you.


    Thank you for tweaking the speech. I loved it so much. I dont think I can use it because I am unemployed. I feel I dont deserve anything like that. I started school for web design and while Ilike the HTML class the web layout is horrible. The teacher rushes like crazy and I am catching nothing. I tried to talk to him but he was not helpful. Its a pass or fail course but I want to be good enough to find work. I just wanted to burst into tears sitting at the __cking computer monitor. I was a graphic design major ten years ago, did great but never pursued it. Anything I know now is obsolete. I am trying to do tutorials on line to figure this out, I mean I cant even save a –cking file on the mac, he goes so fast blabbing this file, that file, the root file and flips in and out of Illustrator and photoship and CSS whatever the hell that is, this feels awful I have been unemployed for almost two years, grabbing a temp job here and there scraping by, terrified every month I will not make the mortgage, I owe the electric company $3300, my house looks like shit and no health insurance and a tumor growing in my kidney, and interstitial cystitis, I am about at the end here. I had another temp job for a few days, it started at 600 am, I got up at 430 to get there, went to school till 10 at night, it was massive data entry and legal letters and you had to generate so many letters and legal forms per hour and it did not make it and got fired. when I got the job the bf started to complain I could not visit him. It felt good to say “well I am taking care of myself and going to school and need to focus on me now” and when I said it, he really began to say he missed me and for the first time he sounded anxious. I reassurred him I loved him and it was just a bend, not the end and now I dont have a job again and dont know if I can get through this. At any rate I have zero confidence about getting a job as a web designer. I feel terrible watching him enjoy massive state benefits and health insurance, pension, 401k and only working 92 days a year. He complained to me, “well you have to find a job that suits your lifestyle. When will I see you?” Well excuse me you spoiled-from-birth brat I guess I have to work forty hours like the rest of the grunts.” And my hard earned dollars wound up in your pocket when I worked my ass off to earn my bachelors degree which still isnt gaining me employment. I dont even want to see him again unless my life is together and I am working. I am sick of my resentment toward him and my helpless feelings and inability to support myself adequately. He said the other day it was astounding I was able to get by and keep my home and admired the way I kept myself pretty and kept up despite all. Oh yeah –sshole? Thank God I had a hysterectomy at 43. I dont have to buy kotex. One less expense.

  256.  #256Brenda on March 7, 2011 at 10:25 pm


    RE: #183 – You said, “I KNOW in my heart of hearts THAT will be the UTTERLY LAST TIME you will ever have to torture yourself to stand up for yourself to love yourself.

    Buying carrots for your horse today.”

    LOL! Thank you! Yeah, I know it was cringe-worthy! You’re right, I found my voice. I found my strength. I will never go to the land of abuse again. My horse says, “Yaa-aaa-aaaa-aaay! Thank you!” LOL! 😆

  257.  #257Late Bloomer on March 7, 2011 at 10:25 pm

    @ Lercomari #246/248

    Re FWB – this is v humble imho, bc as I wrote in my post, I’m new to this, and still not doing everything right.

    What comes to me is that the crux is *why* can’t he commit now? And what is your realistic expectation regards what must/can/will change to make it possible for him to commit to you?

    The 2nd question is why you think indulging in pleasure with him would sabotage your future together?

    If you can answer those questions with brutal honesty, it could illuminate a path?

    Last, I would say that the RR Mantra is brill in terms of breaking down the what to do:

    “* Trust your boundaries
    * Follow my feelings
    * Choose my words
    * Allow surprise
    Because I know what I will not tolerate, because I can feel what I feel, because I’ve stated clearly what I feel and don’t want, I can let go of control.”

    It worked for me, even when not implemented exactly right 😉

    Wishing you every happiness –


  258.  #258nanceen on March 7, 2011 at 10:29 pm

    Brenda I have been reading how it turned out with Ryan. Incredibly sad…that is a new one, someone that has a mental illness…and somehow you persevered…you loved the healthy part with him and you worked out the problem with him by talking to his healthy part…that is an amazing love story.

  259.  #259Jilly on March 7, 2011 at 10:29 pm

    Nanceen…i love it! “is that a Rori Raye girl?” lol i’ve never thought of that…

    i feel like it’s a secret and all the sirens are so far away from me..except the ones ive introduced but as far as i know they’re not on the blog and haven’t totally fallen in love with it yet…i can’t get enough!

    i love your first two paragraphs! i feel the’s super late for me and i need to get to sleep but i can’t stop now that i’ve started reading and writing..that was an HOUR ago lol…

    k for real…goodnight sirens!! 🙂

  260.  #260Sweetpea on March 7, 2011 at 10:32 pm

    Wow! I have a friend who was in New York working in the the second basement of the World Trade Center on 9/11. He was doing some welding on a boiler. When he came up to the parking garage, it was empty – the first 4 levels were empty. This was highly irregular on a weekday and this was hours before the attacks.

    I’ve wondered about that since I heard it. I just found an interesting video on that subject made by the infamous Charlie Sheen. I’m not sure what to make of it, but it’s fascinating. Here’s the link if anyone is interested.

  261.  #261Brenda on March 7, 2011 at 10:44 pm


    Hi, I read your last post at the end of the last thread, and I feel sad to hear your dire situation. I feel especially concerned about the tumor on your kidney. Do I assume correctly you aren’t eligible for Medicaid? Is there a free medical clinic in your town? The one in my town saved my life many times over, in the sense that I would have been on disability long ago if they hadn’t intervened with free medical care that I so needed!

    If you are not sure, I suggest googling the following key words for your city: “free medical clinic” or “St. Vincent de Paul”. Or maybe you could do that search on That is a serious medical condition and I hope you find help, because help is out there! My understanding is that an emergency room cannot deny you treatment for lack of insurance.

    I also think you would do yourself a huge favor to tell your man gut level what’s going on in your life. If you can state it in feeling messages, and try to delete the resentment, you might be surprised. If I were in your situation, I’d say:

    I feel really sad that we no longer see each other. I didn’t want to pressure you in the past when you didn’t seem ready for a deeper commitment. And, on that basis, I made financial decisions that locked me in, decisions that I would have preferred by far to make with you.

    But I’ve decided to give you the state of the Nanceen address. Here is where I’m at: I have a cystic tumor on my kidney and no insurance. I am struggling to pay my mortgage. I have lost my job. I feel scared. What can we do?

    What do you think, Nanceen?

  262.  #262Brenda on March 7, 2011 at 10:46 pm


    RE: #258 – Thank you! I never thought of it that way!

  263.  #263Brenda on March 7, 2011 at 10:50 pm

  264.  #264Brenda on March 7, 2011 at 11:07 pm


    Re: #144 – You said, “It’s hard for me to see the best in someone when I am hearing them blame and not taking responsibility for their own part in it.

    How can I not feel so saddened by witnessing someone in a blaming state? Getting mad at them doesn’t work. Tried that. Offering my perspective doesn’t work. Tried that.

    So how do I let go and let that person express their experience?”

    Since you didn’t address this to anyone, it comes across as passive-aggressive, and I feel angry, because I assume it is about me. Is it?

    Regardless if it is or isn’t, I feel attacked in a mock-innocent, eyelash-batting way, which feels yucky.

    I read a story tonight which was in interview form in Oprah’s magazine, between Oprah and Tyler Perry, who was a true rags-to-riches success story. He describes his childhood, relating one incident of many, when his father came home drunk when he was 10 or 11.

    He cornered him and beat him with a vacuum cleaner cord until his flesh was coming off.

    If a Siren, whoever it may be, got on the blog describing such physical abuse, would you say, “Hmmmm feeling sad. I feel really sad hearing someone being blamed and accused of horrible things. I feel so sad even though I don’t know the person. It feels horrible to assume the worst about someone. I want to see people through Spirit’s eyes, which I believe are always loving and seeing the best in other’s.”?

    It is blatant physical abuse. My abuse was emotional and psychological, and even spiritual. I have never been so deeply wounded by another human being, as evidenced in working thru my healing for 1.5 years before finally finding freedom.

    After I slid to the ground, using Rori’s tool, I lay there crying and pleading with him to stop hurting me. His softly spoken words, “I told you, it’s just a friendship. I’m not in love with you,” felt like a knife twisting in the center of my heart. Even having him repeat last night that he’s not in love with me felt like a knife twisting in my heart, because he used my own love, devotion, trust, and hope as weapons against me.

    He couldn’t have hurt me worse if he had ruined my reputation; gotten me evicted; stolen my car; or whipped me with a vacuum cleaner cord until my flesh was hanging. He hurt me in my heart of hearts, the source of my life and love.

    I make NO apology for stating my truth as it relates to an abuser. He stole from me. But he didn’t steal material things. He stole my love, trust, hope, joy, and life. It was a horrible, nonchargeable crime.

    As far as taking responsibility for my own part, I have been doing that every day for 1.5 years as I learn relational skills.

  265.  #265nanceen on March 7, 2011 at 11:15 pm


    If you ladies could help me…I have a friend. He’s a close friend and I love him very much. He loves me too, but he’s not committed to me. We’ve been sexually intimate, but he still considers me a “friend.” THIS IS NOT LOVE. YOU LOVE HIM, HE LIKES YOU VERY MUCH. I KNOW THAT HURTS AND FEELS AWFUL BUT YOU NEED TO SEE IT FOR WHAT IT IS. He isn’t at a point in life where he can or will commit. So I discovered Rori and started setting boundaries. I stopped declaring my love and contacting him all the time…THAT IS GOOD, GAIN A LITTLE STRENGTH AND BELIEF IN YOU, YOU ARE NOT A WOMAN THAT HAS TO CHASE A MAN.
    Can you give me advice? Thanks.

  266.  #266Brenda on March 7, 2011 at 11:21 pm

    AJ and Lucy,

    RE: #142 – I love Drew Barrymore, too! She’s my favorite actor! And my top favorite movies are Ever After and Never Been Kissed!

  267.  #267nanceen on March 7, 2011 at 11:30 pm

    Ha ha jilly, us east coast girls up late, we are so baaaaaaad…. seriously I have to make a pin to go on my purse or t-shirt, reading “Rori Raye spoken here!”

    Brenda thank you so much for reading….OMG.. I feel so messed up sometimes…I will look into medicaid…someone told me you cant have any assets but I own a house..I managed to scrape up some money for health insurance for three months, had my cataracts removed, (I had been legally blind for the last three years, I see beautifully now!) had the tumor diagnosed and then…had to let it go..he knows all this, he knows it very well but you know what? Your speech tip showed me a whole other side. I know we are not supposed to talk about God here, but I pray all the time, I am a big Joyce Meyer fan. My eyesight is fantastic now, I love it, no glasses, no contacts, no nothing!!! I got cataracts as a result of heavy long term use of antibiotics for two years. And I was under 50! I was diagnosed with mid stage lyme disease and it was the fight of my life. I went into remission and was okay for about two years and then some of it came back and my eyesight began to go.

  268.  #268Sweetpea on March 7, 2011 at 11:31 pm


    re: 264… I don’t know whether LG was referring to you or not. I know that there was something that triggered her and she was working on healing some of her own issues around that.

    Regardless, I can tell you when I read that, I was thinking, “Oh no. I hope she’s not talking about Brenda. Part of the reason Brenda has been so forgiving of Ryan and blaming herself, is because she believes in unconditional love and seeing others’ through the Lord’s eyes, so she’s not giving any responsibility to him.” I felt scared that you would feel guilty for seeing things as they are and that you would once again, lay down and let it steamroll you.

    I am so happy that didn’t happen.

  269.  #269Brenda on March 7, 2011 at 11:38 pm


    Re: #181 – If I had it to do over again, I would have gotten the DVD. There are a lot of visualizations in Modern Siren, and I wish I could have seen Rori’s expressions and body language as she described them, because a lot was lost in audio only that I just had to imagine, not really feeling sure of what motion or body position she meant.

  270.  #270Sweetpea on March 7, 2011 at 11:38 pm


    My heart goes out to you. I don’t know what to say about your situation, except I agree with Brenda. Whether or not you’re ready to let this guy go, I think you will feel better if you can talk to him about how you feel. Write him a speech, Rori style. Get it to where it says exactly what you want it to and then read it off the piece of paper if you have to. But keeping all of this inside of you hurts only you. At least I believe that anger, and Rori has some evidence that pent-up anger affects our health.

    I also would encourage you to find a free medical clinic. I’m not sure how Medicaid works, but there should be a free clinic somewhere close to you – or something based on your income – which at this point, would be free. The one in my town was run by the county if that helps you to find it. I believe the ones here are county financed as well, so look it up by your county. Go to a church and ask for help, please, please, do something. You don’t have to go through this alone. Since you temped for a time, are you eligible for unemployment? If so, go to your unemployment office and ask if they know of something to help you. Even if you aren’t, they may know where to direct you.

  271.  #271Brenda on March 7, 2011 at 11:40 pm


    RE: #268 – Thank you! I found my voice last night. I think it was Lisi who said I would never let myself be abused again.

    LG, I subsequently read your following posts, and I feel sad for the emotional neglect you felt in your childhood, along with an unhealthy step-father. Hugs to you.

  272.  #272Brenda on March 7, 2011 at 11:44 pm


    RE: #267 – I’m a big Joyce Meyer fan, too! That’s awesome about the healing of your eyes!! Faith is memory…let’s believe you will find the help for taking care of your kidney.

  273.  #273gina on March 7, 2011 at 11:53 pm

    I’m angry and I don’t forgive him and I don’t want to just move on! I want a REASON to forgive him. I want him to demonstrate the 3 Rs: Responsibility, Remorse and Repair! I have told him so and I said AGAIN that I am not feeling interested in maintaining a relationship with him until issues are adressed. Though I feel a bit guilty for how I communicated with him. I totally made him very wrong, and labeled his behavior towards me since we broke up as “abusive”. Other ways I said the same thing: “I noticed that when you’re angry it seems like you do something to retaliate: something to make the other person angry.” This was after many instances when I felt like feeling messages weren’t getting through. Just a cop out?
    over all though, I did express that I love him and want him, but I’m not interested in a romance-free relationship for any reason. I don’t care that he was busy on Valentines day. If he’s too busy to send a damn text (ESPECIALLY after the VIRTUOSO performance I had given 2 nights prior) then I don’t have time for an emotional goodbye, and I don’t have time for nightly phone conversations now that he’s in Boston. Sorry Papi. First I said “Hey! you can put stickers on a plane ticket and call it a Valentine.” He started getting serious about sending me a ticket (though he said it’d be email cause he doesn’t have time for regular mail. blech. then he said “if yout thought I was High Maitenance before, I’m really bad now.” I said “hmm…checked my calendar and I don’t have time for high maitenance men.” Then decided the next day that I’m not willing to move forward with our relationship until issues are resolved. And most of them are none of my business. Like the drinking. I just know I don’t want to be tolerating a drunk man’s foolishness. Well that’s really it, but itsa biggie. But beneath the drinking is whatever causes him to laugh in a scary insincere way that gives me the willies. It’s so disturbing cause laughter is usually so pleasant to hear. I hear pure love in laughter. In a fake laugh I hear loathing and fear. and a willingness to compromise or something which leaves me feeling very unsafe and weirded out. There is some sort of major something that feels very very off. The way he has treated me lately is so not good enough. It will feel nice to be pursued in a way that feels safe and happy.

  274.  #274Brenda on March 8, 2011 at 12:06 am


    #198 – How about one of these feeling messages (or more) for OG?

    I feel confused about Wednesday and I don’t want to wonder about it…what happened?

    “I feel bad. I heard you say you were going to call yesterday, and I feel let down.”

    “I feel disappointed that you didn’t call when you said you would.”

    You know… I feel unsure bringing this up but… when you said you’d call me and then didn’t, I felt really annoyed. I don’t want to make a big deal out of it when I feel so good with you normally. What do you think?

    I feel weird. I felt excited that we were going to meet and when we didn’t, I felt disappointed. I would feel happy to talk to you and meet. What do you think?


    You know, I feel unsure about bringing this up, but…I felt excited that we were going to meet this weekend, and when we didn’t, I felt disappointed. I don’t want to make a big deal out of it, but I feel let down when a man doesn’t follow through with something he said he would. What do you think?

  275.  #275nanceen on March 8, 2011 at 12:13 am

    Brenda I am going to cut and paste what you said. Its not like I am trying to make him do something but somehow my situation with him is dragging me down more. There is a big part of me that wants to tell him I want to be alone. Would rather be alone and deal with all this than be with a person who is not so caring…

    He knows all about this….and he would just say sadly “oh what are we going to do with you” or I am worried…or some other uselesss words and I just dont know what to say out of the shame and embarrassment and anger. Yes the economy is bad but I cant keep blaming that. I keep applying for jobs like crazy, then i dont for a few days, then try again…I was so pissed when I went to a chicken place and applied and my friend’s daughter who is 21 and has no degree got a job there. I have a bachelors degree. I have no family except my sister who tries to help but she has to take care of herself too…she works for the state, for 18 years and she has helped so much, but she can only do so much.

    There is a free clinic around here in town. And then the most famous medical school in the whole world is 30 minutes away but I dislike going there intensely and they are definitely not free. I think I will call my doctor and lay it out on the table. I do live in a very densely populated area. I just hate this and feel miserable calling, getting turned down, asking and asking and getting pushed away.

    I havent stopped seeing him, we are still together….dating…I did a speech a few days ago about not wanting to be a girlfriend forever and the wife marriage thing…I was really calm and basically kept saying “I dont want to be in a LDR forever, I just kept repeating it quietly throughout the coversation when necessary. After about two centuries of silence he finally said “I really love you, maybe one of us needs to move.” Well I said “we are both pretty smart cookies there probably is way we can work do this so both of us are happy.” His voice got really low and he agreed. We kept talking about it and other stuff, I lightened up on him, I can tell when he seems overloaded or flooded and I back off.

    I am going to study your speech Brenda, study my school stuff but want to cry thinking about…another flop another failure…tomorrow have a under the table cleaning job.

  276.  #276Brenda on March 8, 2011 at 12:15 am


    RE: #200 – I missed you, too! 🙂

  277.  #277Brenda on March 8, 2011 at 12:21 am


    I may be mistaken here, but my understanding is that a man isn’t to be expected to take care of you financially until you are actually his wife, in terms of medical bills, mortgage, etc. He is concerned, and I think that’s ok.

    But since it sounds like he’s made a deeper commitment, and he is still together with you emotionally, I think it would be appropriate to lay some heavy real-life stuff on him. Because if you were to marry and live together, automatically, your financial burden would be lightened, and rightfully so.

    I am glad you had that talk with him, and I did read that the other day when you told about it. His response sounds very promising. The more you can unzip your heart, the better.

    Love, Brenda

  278.  #278Laughing Goddess on March 8, 2011 at 12:25 am

    Brenda: I just got home and skimmed thru the posts. I haven’t had a chance to read everything and I have to go do something right now but I do want to let you know that I was processing my own triggers. Watching your process triggered some deep feelings and memories for me. It really has nothing to do with your personal choices. I’m doing my best to separate the two. I’m sorry if you got triggered, that wasn’t my intention as I’m sure it wasn’t your intention to trigger me.

    I wish healing and awesomeness for both of us.

  279.  #279Brenda on March 8, 2011 at 12:27 am


    RE: #206 – How about a reframe?

    Even tho I feel bad that I followed my old path to earn money when the going got tough, I love and accept myself anyway.

    I don’t want to follow that path anymore. I choose to follow my new path, down my bridge, to my happy ever after with one loving man. And, along the way, I will learn a lot, and each day is a fresh, new start to develop my loyalty. And, I love and accept myself anyway.

  280.  #280Sweetpea on March 8, 2011 at 12:27 am

    Thanks Brenda.

  281.  #281Lercomari on March 8, 2011 at 12:27 am

    @BRENDA Thank you for sharing. I like the script you gave. My friend (aka “the banker”) is very caring and intuitive, so i know what you mean when a man makes you feel understood. And thanks for Boomer’s’s absolutely beautiful and true.

    @LB, he has a girlfriend he’s been with for awhile. I knew this from the start but overtime we just got very close and finally after several months I found myself in love with him. His relationship w/ his gf is deteriorating…she’s been misbehaving (that’s another story) and its one reason why we’ve grown closer. I’ve tried to convince him to break it off with her, but I came to realize that he isn’t going to leave her unless he wants to.
    I have to continue reading the eBook as far as the mantra goes. I feel like I’ll be more stable once I get it into my head. LB you are definitely on the right track when it comes to implementing. Keep practicing your newfound golden knowledge. I can see much emotional maturity in you.

    @NANCEEN, I’m proud of myself for setting new boundaries. I feel more in control of my feelings and less desperate, now that I have concrete guidelines to follow. As for my friend (the banker), we knew each other for several months before we actually slept together. We’ve talked to each other nearly every day since we met. So I know him well and that he really does have feelings for me. I know he’s attracted to my mind and spirit, but the sexual attraction is also there. When I talk to him I will use feeling words when I talk to him about sex. It made me feel good when described the roses and ring and forever words. you’re right, I do deserve that.

  282.  #282Brenda on March 8, 2011 at 12:28 am


    RE: #278 – I respect that. Thank you. I understand. I know that is some deep pain you are processing. I’m sorry if I hurt you.

    Hugs, Brenda

  283.  #283nanceen on March 8, 2011 at 12:31 am


    Thank you. I have been collecting unemployment for almost two years. I report my earnings whenever I have a temp job and then go back on. Never, ever in my life did I collect unemployment.

    I will try and get help. I do own my own home…I think for medicaid you have to have no assets. I kept thinking oh something will turn up…since I keep trying and then the days turn into weeks.

    The two biggest things that have helped me survive have been Rori Raye stuff and Joyce Myers.

    Venting on this blog is good and then I look at other entries to see if I can help. I tend to be rough and to the point. I see very in depth, analytical answers, quite well thought out and definitely along the psychoanalysis lines but I get impatient. Some of the stuff is too “floaty” and new agey for me and too long. I have girlfriends that think this man or that man is more refined or nicer inside because he is well educated. HA I refuse to do that. My bf is a highly paid well educated professor that looks just like one and he is just any other guy on this blog. Long windy speeches go right over his head. It cracks me up, he is so dignified at school and then behind closed doors with me he as piggy and clueless as the tow truck driver down the street.

  284.  #284Laughing Goddess on March 8, 2011 at 12:46 am

    Brenda: I don’t feel any need for you to apologize you didn’t hurt me. You actually helped me to see that I was carrying some pain around this issue with my mom. It’s a deep thing that I don’t think about often but it’s still there.

    I’d like to let it go so that I can have compassion for my mom and for you. I’ve certainly been in the same place of being in love with a man that I wanted so badly but didn’t trust. I’ve been crazy over men…more often than not. In fact, the relationship I’m in now is the first good one in literally 9 years. I had three long term imaginary relationships. They all told me time and time again that they didn’t feel the same for me yet they spent time with me, were intimate with me. Believe me, I so know how it can happen.

    So I’d like to have more compassion and that’s what I’m working towards and also, no need to apologize. Live your life, do your thang. I know you are on the right track.

  285.  #285nanceen on March 8, 2011 at 12:48 am


    Something else I need to tell you, I think I read this on a Rori blog, as long as a man has two women hanging around he will do nothing. You are not valuable standing there waiting for him. The girlfriend who is giving him trouble will look less desirable than the girl that walks off because she cares about herself. Also Rori warns you NEVER,EVER get involved with a guy that has a girlfriend and/or is still emotionally attached.

    you said: “I knew this from the start but overtime we just got very close and finally after several months I found myself in love with him.” Sweetie YOU found yourself in love with him. Not him with you. The relationship with the girlfriend is still on and strong. It may be rocky and crappy but it is STILL ON. I want you to leave. you are hanging around wishing and hoping. He is staying very comfortable at your expense. You are paying an extremely high price. He will probably come after you, when you walk off and when he does you tell him “I do not want to get involved with you so soon after you have left whats her face.” “I think you need more time.” This totally flips them out. This is a woman that hung on his every word,adored him, he thought he had her? Men love challenges because the woman that is a challenges must be worth it because why would she be so challenging? You need to leave him. Then he will see, uh oh, all I got left here is bad girlfriend..and Lercomari walked off!! Shit I lost her!! May not be like that but you got a better chance…Lercomari did you ever lean over the glass top of a jewelry counter and gaze at rings because he brought you there to pick one out…did you ever have a man say he needed to ASK you something and you just knew, you just knew what was coming..

  286.  #286Brenda on March 8, 2011 at 12:50 am


    RE: #223 – You said, “Is Alpha kinda lazy? Is he just not used to a woman who is in the moment and just being and not doing?

    What do you all think? What’s the Siren wisdom on what reaction men and certain types of men have to us when we are Sirens?”

    This is the same guy whose profile read he wants to be the man and he wants you to be the lady??

    He may be lazy or maybe he’s just been so confused by the shift in roles in modern society and is not used to a woman actually letting him BE Alpha!? Hmmm. Not sure.

  287.  #287nanceen on March 8, 2011 at 1:00 am

    Hi Brenda: here is what you said:


    “I may be mistaken here, but my understanding is that a man isn’t to be expected to take care of you financially until you are actually his wife, in terms of medical bills, mortgage, etc. He is concerned, and I think that’s ok.”

    I know that, I know it very well. I was married for 18 years…I was very financially secure but he had a horrible temper. I have never had a long term relationship before. Well maybe one sort of when I was younger. But I was a super heavy dater before I was married, went out with zillions of guys. I let them chase me and they did.

    But I have been with M for five years now..that is part of the dilemma. and he is so different from my husband!!! My husband chased me to the ends of the earth, I did not have to do anything. He couldnt wait to marry me. He talked about feelings all the time and did not mind discussing the relationship. One time we were on a date and stopped in a grocery store and he bought me a copy of bridal magazine.

    Oh lordy I am probably venting to cyberspace, look what time it is, lawd have moicy!!!!

  288.  #288Lercomari on March 8, 2011 at 1:01 am

    @NANCEEN #285 Yes that makes a lot of doesn’t make much sense to try and fill a cup that’s already full, does it? :-/ Yeah I got that from Avatar…I’m an Avatar nerd. lol. But the metaphor fits in this situation. Overtime I got so dependent on him and him on me. We talk to each other every day about everything. I feel like I’d be betraying or abandoning him if I just bowed out now. Plus it’s sort of complicated because we collaborate on freelance work sometimes. He has a fulltime job now so I don’t think I’d hear from him as often about work stuff. But I’d still hear from him.
    I feel bad…I feel like I’d be dumping my best friend and I know he’d be heartbroken.

  289.  #289Sweetpea on March 8, 2011 at 1:02 am


    Well it’s kind of a relief to me that your bf is just as piggy as the tow truck driver down the street. Because I was just saying on here earlier, or maybe it was the last thread, how things have finally shifted for me. I was hesitant to date a white collar guy but that is more in line with what I want, financial stability. I’ve always dated blue collar guys because I find for the most part, they’re real. If white collar guys are piggy too, then hey, I should be good.

    I hope you will check with the free clinic and soon. There have to be organizations that will help you with this. Times are hard everywhere, so I hope there is more help available for you now than there was in the past. Have faith, Nanceen. You need it, you’ll have it. That’s what I’m saying.

  290.  #290Brenda on March 8, 2011 at 1:07 am


    RE: #287 – Almost time to go milk the cows! LOL! But I’m still here!

    Five years is not cool at all. Are you CDing? I know you have given the no girlfriend speech before, but wow, this guy is off the hook. No wonder you’re so upset.

    Maybe he needs a Brenda-ized feeling message:

    Yo, dud, I mean, dude, shit or get off the pot!

    Mwuahahahaha! I get like this when I’m tarred, I mean, tired!

  291.  #291Laughing Goddess on March 8, 2011 at 1:23 am

    The main thing that I got from processing this is that I want to reframe these childhood memories.

    I really want to do that.

    And I also want to feel more compassion for my mom. As an adult woman, I can completely understand what happened. She’s a great mom and she did her best. I don’t have any children yet but I know I have been in some pretty dark places. I’m actually impressed that she was able to do what she did. She was a single woman (even w/ stepdad around) taking care of five kids. That’s incredible! She had me when she was 17 years old. Of course I witnessed a lot of her growing up. I want to let go of this deep feeling of hurt and anger I have towards her. I’m going to take time to listen to my little girl. I’m going to nurture her and ask her about her dreams. I will give her the love she needs and let my mom off the hook.

  292.  #292nanceen on March 8, 2011 at 1:24 am

    Hee hee Brenda, like it git in, git out or git runned over.

    mmm bit of history here before I go pass out..

    Met in 2004….but I was unavailable. I was married. I got a divorce, we went out in fall of 2006, lets see Sept to Februay, then he was sent overseas to teach for six months, I visited him there for two weeks, in Cyrpus and Turkey, he paid for most of the trip, he came back in July, things were horrible and by Dec 06 we split up. I saw him once in May of 07. I chased him, he took me out for my birthday, screwed me and left. A month later I confronted him and he ran off. This whole time was pre Rori. You can imagine how I was behaving. I was devastated. Then I started listening to Joyce and reading Rori. I cried almost everyday. I saw everything I did. I gave up. I knew he was gone for good. A whole year goes by. Oh he sent a Christmas card. A generic one. FU pal. I ignored it. A whole year went by and he left a few calls but I could tell they were not sincere. dont ask how I know. I know him. Then in March of 08 I ran out of gas. No one was home. I could not get anyone. In desperation I called him. He answered, I said please help me, I am not trying to get back together with you, I am okay, I just need help. He lives two hours away and drove all the way to get me, bought me dinner and gas and stayed with me eight hours. At my house door we necked heavily, he wanted to come in. I said no. He pushed, I said no. Then he left and said I will call you. HE DID NOT CALL FOR NINE DAYS. I was pissed and when he did call I would not answer. Then he called again three days later and we went out to dinner. Months later I asked him about the trying to get me into bed and would he of slept with me and then left. He mumbled uh yeah but we were not dating. SCREAM>>>> anyway I laid down some laws and I would not sleep with him for five whole months, we just dated and made out. Gradually he began to let me meet his friends and had me at his apartment and gave me bits of money here and there to help and called me regular every single week!! He still does!!! And he takes me to Thanksgiving and cooks all the time for me. But I was still so frightened..only recently have I calmed down…so in reality we have been together two SOLID years, the time I was with him before was really nutty…and I need a job

  293.  #293nanceen on March 8, 2011 at 1:33 am


    Look at the salary and how he handles money, not whether blue collar or white collar.

    Look for a saver that owns a home. I dated a doctor with trashed credit and an electrician that owned several rental properties, his home and a boat.

    A guy with a good heart that handles money well is desirable.

    Always be able and willing to work but never be afraid to want a man that can take care of you. Also if you are young and dream of being a stay at home mom. Have good life insurance policy in case he dies so you and your babies are cared for. There is nothing wrong with wanting financial stability. Its a sign of maturity in a male.

  294.  #294Laughing Goddess on March 8, 2011 at 1:42 am

    I had an interesting conversation with Mr Charisma tonight. He’s the one that I met at the same time as LI. I felt attracted to both but LI stepped up and swept me off my feet. Mr Charisma was still getting over his past relationship. I always wondered if he felt the chemistry that I felt and I felt kind of disappointed that he would never let me know because he and LI are friends.

    Well, tonight he told me that I’m on of his favorite people, and that he used to think that if LI and I ever broke up, he wouldn’t pursue me out of respect for their friendship but today he realized that he actually would, and then he’s said “basically I just want to let you know that I think about you”.

    This is all out of the blue. I’ve always wondered if he felt the chemistry I did and I’ve gone over in my mind many times how to discuss it with him but I never did.

    Interestingly enough, earlier in the night I realized he was scooby doo. I could see he was just a regular dude instead of a crush. Then he says this.

    I’ve also been feeling less and less worried about what may have been with him and more and more willing to really give things with LI a chance.

    Right now I feel kind of happy because I always wondered how he felt about me. And also a little happy that I’m with LI. Mr charisma is so the kind of guy that I lose myself over. He’s a recipe for my overfunctioning insecure maniac side to come out.

    I want to explore my feelings around this more. I’m not really sure how I feel right now.

  295.  #295Brenda on March 8, 2011 at 1:44 am


    What stands out to me is how he came from two hours away to help you when you were out of gas. That’s major. I see more clearly with the history and it being a solid 2 years. So you are ripe for marriage with him! 🙂 I hope it happens for you. And I hope you CD until you do.

  296.  #296Laughing Goddess on March 8, 2011 at 1:48 am

    “And also a little happy that I’m with LI.”

    oh no, that’s not what I meant to say. I hope it’s not a freudian slip!

    I meant to say I do feel happy that I’m with LI.

    Mr charisma is my old pattern. LI is my new pattern.


    There is more exploration to do. I trust that it will all work out for the best.

  297.  #297Lercomari on March 8, 2011 at 1:52 am

    @NANCEEN 292:

    That’s quite a story you have…I agree w/ Brenda. I hope he marries you soon.

  298.  #298Sweetpea on March 8, 2011 at 1:53 am


    I’ve dated guys who are savers and own their own homes. They were so concerned about saving money, I’m surprised they had any. It drove me absolutely batty! I want a guy who isn’t so centered around money – he just has enough of it. Maybe I want a guy who’s independently wealthy – I don’t know. I want a guy who’s financially stable. That pretty much sums it up. Meaning a guy who knows how to manage it well enough and makes enough of it that he doesn’t freak out about it. I don’t care how much he makes – as long as he’s financially stable. In my mind, that also includes not being in debt up to your eyeballs.

  299.  #299Laughing Goddess on March 8, 2011 at 1:54 am

    (((( Lucy <3 )))

  300.  #300Laughing Goddess on March 8, 2011 at 1:58 am

    I feel weird because tonight Mr Charisma said two things that reminded me of my stepdad. He kinda reminds me of him. Not in the bad ways. But something about their demeanor is similar. I think they are both Scorpios even.

    I feel curious why all of this is happening at the same time.

    I wonder what kind of breakthru is coming from this.

  301.  #301Sweetpea on March 8, 2011 at 1:59 am


    Aahhh! Sorry. Apparently “saver” is a huge trigger for me. Saver = penny pincher in my mind. I want a man who has the money available – cash money, not credit – to take me to a 5 star restaurant once a week if he wants to and won’t freak out about it. I’ll take Burger King or chinese take out too. Whatever. Just so he’s comfortable enough that I don’t feel guilty about the amount of cash he’s spending. The savers I dated had the cash, they just complained about having to spend it. f**k all that noise! I got tired of hearing it. If you don’t have it, don’t spend it, but don’t b**ch to me that you took me out and now you don’t have the $5k to put in your savings. Ok, really it was more like $5, but I got sooooo tired of hearing it. I want a man who’s generous and has the means to be.

  302.  #302Laughing Goddess on March 8, 2011 at 2:01 am

    Oh god, and LI reminds me of my dad who is a very sweet man whom I love very much, although I do have some resentment towards him for letting me live around stepdad for so longer. I wanted him to rescue my sister and I. I asked him later why he didn’t and he said he had no idea what was really going on.

    Oh my, I feel like I am in some weird real life version of a Freudian textbook.


  303.  #303Sweetpea on March 8, 2011 at 2:04 am


    I’m embarrassed to admit that I didn’t even read your whole post to me before I freaked out reading “saver”. Thanks for your input and I do agree with you other than the saver part.

    I also dated a guy who I guess might be considered blue collar, but he made a couple hundred Ks a year. He was very generous. Always had money to blow and saved. I don’t really think of him as a saver because it was something he just mentioned in passing after I’d known him about a year. Not something he was always talking about. I guess I don’t have to freak about a guy being a saver – just so long as he has enough to keep me in the style I want to become accustomed to without freaking out about it.

  304.  #304Laughing Goddess on March 8, 2011 at 2:10 am

    My fear of being with Mr Charisma is that he has an edge. He’s kind of a drinker. It doesn’t run his life but it’s more than I feel comfortable with. Also, he’s very handsome and does well with the ladies. They practically throw themselves at him. I don’t know that I could ever trust him.

    LI is much more grounded. He’s not as flashy but he’s still very charming. And he is sweet and he wants one beloved and a family. He’s really amazing.

    But Mr Charisma has a sweet side too and I wonder if he would be his higher self if he had the right woman. I think his drinking player side is masking his heartache over his last breakup.

    Interestingly enough, he let this woman go, she went off and found someone else, he realized that she was the one, but he was too late, she was already engaged. He took it really hard. And suffered for a long time but then started partying and he seems to have let it go but he’s not his normal self.

    Ugh! This is a lot of thinking about them. Yuck. What about me. How do I feel?

    Going to meditate on this.

    Goodnight all!!!

  305.  #305LonePlum on March 8, 2011 at 4:26 am

    I just got 30 more votes on the poll

    Come on, it was one vote per day per siren. Send the link to your friends 🙂


  306.  #306Alonka on March 8, 2011 at 5:02 am


    #233: Ok, I see your point. I was not talking about ‘going home’ with a man who bought me a drink;)) It was more about the soft obligation to talk to him after, give my number and accept a date proposal. They usually want this if they buy me a drink and I accept.

  307.  #307Alonka on March 8, 2011 at 5:13 am


    I think I saw in one of your posts that you would not ‘pay half the rent’ if you lived with your boyfriend. May I ask you to please elaborate? Say if you both have a job and paying half the rent is affordable for you, would you still refuse to? how would you explain it? Thanks!

  308.  #308LonePlum on March 8, 2011 at 5:15 am

  309.  #309Senior Lady Vibe on March 8, 2011 at 6:07 am

    @265: nanceen

    Wise words for Lercomari. Excellent.

    When I saw all those ALL CAPS lines I wondered if I was being punished by the Universe for my “italicizing bad boy” days. And no white space either. LOL 😆


  310.  #310LilyBelle on March 8, 2011 at 6:12 am



  311.  #311LonePlum on March 8, 2011 at 6:28 am


    Thanks 🙂

    Today we went from 495 to 640. And I am not done 🙂

    I wonder how the two first sites got thousands votes. They do not seem to have thousands followers on their web site… Does not matter, I just did not want us to be last he he he


  312.  #312Joe Loves Kim on March 8, 2011 at 6:35 am

    You don’t have to chase after him, if you really like him then do nice things. But a guy if he doesn’t feel the girl then there’s no chances at all.

  313.  #313Darling Ella on March 8, 2011 at 6:54 am

    Happy International Women’s Day!

    This is a highly celebrated day in Europe …at least where I come from…men buy all women presents 🙂 Hope this will be embraced more in the US as well 🙂

    Did I say, lets party???

  314.  #314LonePlum on March 8, 2011 at 7:31 am

    The Women’s International Summit for Health


  315.  #315Senior Lady Vibe on March 8, 2011 at 7:32 am

    I’ve been catching up on posts and reading your story. I think you are fabulous and I’m rooting for you!

    “…I will try and get help. I do own my own home…I think for medicaid you have to have no assets…”

    I don’t know Medicaid regulation but I believe it might vary from state to state. The best way to find out is to go make an application. Your state might also provide free counseling/information on what assistance is available in your state. You might get the run around or some dull bureacratic twits but I get a sense you know how to handle that.

    “…I was so pissed when I went to a chicken place and applied and my friend’s daughter who is 21 and has no degree got a job there. I have a bachelors degree…”

    I learned in executive outplacement coaching some tips when applying for non-career “survival jobs.” One tip was to avoid putting degrees etc on applications when degrees are not job requirements because then it will be counted against you instead of for you.

    “…but want to cry thinking about…another flop another failure…”

    You are not a failure. You’re keeping a lot of balls in the air, holding it all together. Doing a damn good job too!


    “…He said the other day it was astounding I was able to get by and keep my home and admired the way I kept myself pretty and kept up despite…”

    See! Your guy thinks so too!!!

    “… Thank God I had a hysterectomy at 43. I dont have to buy kotex. One less expense…”

    I like your spirit, spunk and sense of humour! 😀

    Brenda and I are reading “The 4-Hour Workweek” by Timothy Ferriss. You might be cheered and encouraged by taking a look at it also. There is some intriguing strategy, organization and marketing discussion that you might find interesting.

    I’m kind of an entrepreneurial and job avoidance girl by heart and soul but site below has good advice on planning and carrying out job search campaigns. If I were mounting a campaign I’d use those techniques. Use all the free stuff and you can get the books at library.

    The Five O’Clock Club
    “The Thought Leaders in Career Management and Outplacement”


  316.  #316Mercedes on March 8, 2011 at 7:53 am

    Checking In….

    Lucy: So happy I could help. Slowly and carefully is my best advice for someone considering this.

    Lisi: I thought you probably knew the whole story but I always like to clarify just in case. I like to be sure because sometimes I’m used as an example of how to take someone back and make it work, but the true role model for that is J. He did everything right. All I did was get myself to a place of strength and boundaries.

    Sweatpea: You’re very welcome dear. I understand so much what you are going through. I never would have believed it from J either (and I don’t think I was even open to it for a long time. lol). If it doesn’t feel totally right, my opinion – don’t do it.

    Lercomari: Circular date like crazy! 🙂 And yes…I’m with the crowd who says if he has a girlfriend you should be walking away with your pride in tact.

    “I feel bad…I feel like I’d be dumping my best friend and I know he’d be heartbroken.”

    Here’s the thing…you WOULD be dumping your best friend, but how do you know he’d be heartbroken? And if he is, doesn’t that say a lot? From my experience, you would learn a few things from walking away:

    1. If he’s heartbroken, you’ll know for sure because he’ll chase you down and leave the gf. His heart can’t belong to both of you so if you’re the one with the ability to break it…you’re the one he’ll come get.

    2. You already know he’s your best friend. What you don’t know is are you HIS best friend…you’ll find out if he can’t live without you.

    3. You’ll know if he’s willing to leave a “rocky” relationship for you or if that relationship means more to him than you do.

    These are scary things to find out, but if he loves you the way you love him…the way you imagine he loves you…the way you deserve to be loved…well…he won’t let you go. If he doesn’t feel that way about you then at least you’ll know, you’ll be able to go through the pain to the other side and you’ll be able and ready to find someone who does feel those things for you.

    My advice: Start dating other men. Stop feeling sorry for this man in your life who gets to have his cake and eat it too. Start taking your own life into your own hands and go out there and get all you deserve. Believe you REALLY do deserve all you want and KNOW that it’s time you stop taking less than that as good enough.

    (and I know I turned all bossy again on this blog which I shouldn’t do but I just can’t seem to help myself…)

    Much Love,

  317.  #317Boomer on March 8, 2011 at 8:03 am

    Brenda, 286:

    Yes, this was the aggressive ALPAHAMALE who said he was tired of women trying to be the man and never letting him do things for him. This is the same guy, also, who got sexually assertive with me before we even met (and you quoted my boundary-setting with him above)….yep, same guy!!!

    Now that he gets it, however, he’s whining that the “work” is on him! But he acknowledges that I am correct in this balance of female/male energy and that he definitely DOES feel more emotionally attracted to me because I am insisting on the balance.

    I like your take on it, Brenda, many men are just as confused by what “modern women” should be as we are that now when they’re faced with a women who really WILL let them be the man…and I think they find they kinda miss being taken care of.

    I have been firm in my unwillingness to step into the male energy with Alpha. I have OUTGIRLed him at every turn! It has been AWESOME!

    Now, I do struggle with being fair to the poor guy. His concerns are real to him (even though I feel a bit amused that he’s so worried):

    1) He just wants to plan a date that I’ll enjoy in our limited time together, and he seems certain that the best route to that is for me to just tell him what I want to do. I started giving the poor dear clues: He said he ate Indian at lunch that day and I said, “Ohhhh, I LOVE Indian food! None of my friends or my kids will go eat it with me!” And he was like, “OH! You like Indian???? Well, maybe we could go to an Indian restaurant soon!”

    Duh. Poor sweetie.

    So I continued to do things like that to get his brain moving–to help him realize he can pick good dates without me telling him what to do. Is that manipulative??? Or is that Siren-like?

    2) He’s afraid he’ll end up “a sucker” again for a woman who uses him as a resource (evidently this is a pattern for him). I told him that only he can gauge how he’s feeling about me in that area – but I urged him to look around my home….I quoted Beyonce to him, “See this house I live in? I bought it. This watch I’m wearin’? I bought it…I depend on me….” He laughed. But it reassured him that asking him to replace a too-high light bulb is not the first step on the path to my quitting my job and him paying my mortgage. It’s just a light bulb I couldn’t reach. He seemed to relax. But I still feel like I am leading him when I’d rather he step up. It’s a conundrum for me.

    So, I think he’s getting it. He says he feels manipulated a little….but that he can’t argue with the results: the energy is in balance, we like each other, he feels manly, I feel girlie, and he is really responding to me like he has not any other woman.

  318.  #318Ella on March 8, 2011 at 8:08 am

    LG re 08

    I love this post too!

    You said
    “When I finally accepted what he said and finally decided to really let go, not tell him I’m letting go, but really let him go deep within my heart and mind…well, things changed very quickly.”

    This would feel great…

    But how?

    Lol… that is it for me…

    I want to truly let go of men who are no good for me, and of particular men I pine for, however I am not always able to do it as quickly as I would like.

    Do you think time is a factor?

    What speeds up the process?

    For me I know getting busy and involved in my own life, especially work for me right now (I am feeling super good about my work at the moment).

    What else?

    I am sure Rori would say CD-ing and I can see the sense in that.

    On the other hand I also get really tired of CD-ing sometimes, and it can actually push me back towards the one I am thinking about sometimes if the CD is too disappointing!

    I am working on feeling good and my vibe and looking forward to getting to a place, like Daria, where lots of Mr Desirables show up!

    I intend to be in that place very soon.


  319.  #319Brenda on March 8, 2011 at 8:15 am


    Re: #311 – You said, “I wonder how the two first sites got thousands votes. They do not seem to have thousands followers on their web site…”

    Rori had said she didn’t even know about the vote going on. Obviously the other relationship coaches did, especially the two in the lead. It doesn’t seem fair, and I am sure Rori would have had far more votes if she had been notified of it from the door.

  320.  #320Boomer on March 8, 2011 at 8:18 am

    Oh, and should I mention also that Alpha is a really good guy–and I wish I were really FEELING it for him. But I’m kind of not.

    I think his early bravado is a cover for some real esteem issues from two bad break-ups and some bad luck (lost his job–is back to work now).

    I suspect Alpha needs to do some emotional work of his own before he is really ready to commit like I am.

    I’m trying to trust my feelings that

    1) yes, he’s a bit hurt still and may need time to heal his issues and be trusting

    2) his slight push for instant relationship is making me feel uncomfortable and I need to address that

    3) that he really could be good for me given time and exposure–but I’m reacting unconsciously and negatively to his confidence issues.

    Why do we never really like the ones who like us? Am I doing that here? What if he were not attentive? Would I be responding to him? Hmmmm….

  321.  #321LilyBelle on March 8, 2011 at 8:26 am

    316: Boomer,

    I have a very Alpha Male in my rotation and no matter what I do, I can’t outgirl him. In fact, I am so frustrated with it I am thinking of knocking him off my horse. He won’t let me be the girl, he tells me I am playing hard to get (because I refused to date him last night on six hour notice). It is just not a good energy balance at all.


  322.  #322Boomer on March 8, 2011 at 8:27 am


    “On the other hand I also get really tired of CD-ing sometimes, and it can actually push me back towards the one I am thinking about sometimes if the CD is too disappointing!”

    I know that the tendency is to wish EVERY new guy could be THE ONE to get your mind off Mr. B.

    Maybe look at each CD as not your savior, but as a fun thing you are doing for yourself….a dinner/movie/drink that gets you out of the house… the “no expectations/be surprised” thing that Rori says very early on in her eBook!

    Find one good thing about each CD (his blue eyes, his nice smile, his good taste in women!) and let THAT be your reward for having gone out. Let THAT be the one thing he has over Mr. B and focus on it.

  323.  #323LilyBelle on March 8, 2011 at 8:28 am

    But then again, part of me wants to leave him on my horse so that I can practice on him. But still, the energy feels to unbalanced and I do not like how it feels.

  324.  #324LonePlum on March 8, 2011 at 8:29 am

    From 495 and 5% this morning to 800 votes and 8%
    I am done, I leave it there for now

    Care to forward the link?


  325.  #325Boomer on March 8, 2011 at 8:33 am

    LilyBelle. Ew. Icky. For any men to tell me how I handle my time seems manipulative. Let him have his opinion, I suppose, but stick to your guns? Only go with him next time he call son short notice IF it suits you. If you feel “ick” about his late notice, then don’t go and don’t worry about him. Either he will give more notice next time or he won’t be calling again because you are too “difficult” for him.

    See, you can OUTGIRL him, it just may mean saying “no” to a date, so you will have to accept that/be OK with not going.

    Remember…and this is what keeps me going: “You can’t say or do the wrong thing with the right guy!”

  326.  #326Ella on March 8, 2011 at 8:35 am

    “You can do anything you want as long as it’s a lesson for you – and not about GETTING HIM BACK.”

    Yeah, this is the one I struggle with…

    I mean on a lot of levels I don’t want him back… and then there are still those pesky ‘longing’ feelings.
    And the draw of my pattern to toxic relationships.

    My current split within myself is that part of me really wants to return to the pub soon (where Mr B works) and part of me believes I should stay away.

    I do want to go back bc it is my local and the livliest pub for miles. It is one of only 2 pubs in the village. The other is v depressing place.

    I was going to the pub before I met Mr B… and know a few people there, although not well. And I did tell him (when we were kinda dating but not together, after I pulled back) that I would be coming to the pub again at some point. He said he knew bc we had always agreed on that even when we were just dating.

    On the other hand I am trying to question myself of my motives… ie: would I still go back if he was not there.

    The answer is yes!

    However to go back and he is there is a very triggering situation to put myself in.

    And I feel worried about what everyone else thinks about me going back (silly I know but I still feel it).

    I have faced situations like this b4, in fact in another pub in the next town… and I did it and I was fine!

    Part of me just wants to do it and get it over and done with so that it is on limits again for me to go there if I want to…

    And part of me feels terrified of seeing Mr B in this situation.

    What do Sirens think about this situation?

  327.  #327Ella on March 8, 2011 at 8:39 am

    Boomer re 321

    Yes, that sounds good.

    I will CD, however I am not going to give all my energy to that right now.

    It is ME time.

    I will CD myself and just see what happens.

    I feel as though I want all my energy for me right now…


  328.  #328Brenda on March 8, 2011 at 8:42 am


    RE: #323 – Wow, you’re amazing! Thanks for getting votes for Rori!

  329.  #329Brenda on March 8, 2011 at 8:49 am


    Rori said something about this recently. I wish I could find it. The gist of it is to not let the presence of an ex keep you home. I’m going to keep searching.

  330.  #330Brenda on March 8, 2011 at 8:55 am


    This isn’t what I was looking for, but this pertains, too.

    I’m feeling uncomfortable being around you. I would like to cut this relationship off now and I know we can’t because I also don’t want to leave church or the gym or our business relationship and so, I only want to have a cordial businesslike relationship with you. I still shake whenever I’m around you. I still feel bad whenever I’m around you. I’d appreciate it if you would honor my feelings.

    So, that is how you are a Rock Star – and what happens is you tell him the truth instead of pretending to be okay.

    You tell him the truth and then you go, “And you know what? Even though I feel all this, I’m going to take care of myself and taking care of myself right now is not being with you,” and then you Circular Date. Circular Dating is pretty much the cure for everything.

  331.  #331LilyBelle on March 8, 2011 at 9:08 am

    324: Boomer,

    I had a fabulous time last night and CD’d myself and feeling more than okay that I didn’t go out with him last night. He actually said and I quote “Stop playing hard to get and tell me to come over.”

    He is on the verrrryyyy back of the horse.

    I don’t have any attachment to it at all although he would make excellent practice. But, there are always others.

    And I love ..”You can’t say or do the wrong thing with the right man.”

  332.  #332Boomer on March 8, 2011 at 9:17 am


    I repeat: “Ick.”

    Back o’ da horse, yes. And for practice. Maybe he will catch on and be “the one” eventually?” Ya never know!

  333.  #333nanceen on March 8, 2011 at 9:23 am

    Once again I want to burst into tears but its because so many women have offered terrific advice and I feel cared for. I am slowly beginning to get to know people here. Tears of being happy. I always tried to be such a tough loner. Now I know life consists of nothing but relationships. I truly get it. Going to get to work getting help cuz I feel like if I get knocked down I can find some tea and sympathy and good wise cracks here.

    When I put stuff in caps I am not trying to holler at anybody. Just trying to make it look different from her letter so she can see it.

    Oh senior vibe lady my “twin”!!! I’m kind of an entrepreneurial and job avoidance girl by heart” WE HAVE TO TALK. Glad you get the hysterectomy thing. I remember my doctor’s nurse thought I would need therapy for this rite of passage ending in my life, you know the whole period thing. I was like “are you kidding? Whee I am free, gonna have a big bonfire with all those paper products.” “Actually I donated them to my sister.” I also take a bio-identical feminine hormone and tiny amounts of tetosterone. This was all prescribed to me . Still works today.

    Sweetpea I know what you mean. There is a certain level, a $tandard we gravitate toward and feel comfortable with. When I look back at all the men I was involved with I noticed they all pretty much fell into the same income bracket. I wasnt consciously choosing them but it turned out that way. And they were generous and yes we ate in five star restaurants sometimes. Also I did not have to work when I was married. I did the first four years. I also went to school, worked in his business, worked partime jobs off and on, did volunteer work and got to explore different options and enjoyed my home. I mean I didnt have a chauffeur (and would not date one, lord I sound like such a snob) but I could have a cleaning lady come in occasionally and never had to balance the checkbook. A girlfriend looked at me once and said you have the well cared for look I see in a lot of married women. Its not rescue, its just the way it is. And its your life and the eventual welfare of your babies.

    Boomer, you can joke around with him and tell him he is your devoted love slave. I notice with my bf after delivering some heavy information a joke help ease things. Tell him to put on a dog collar and crawl out on his hands and knees to the kitchen and get you a diet pepsi while you type away on the Rori blog.

    Lucy I think you mentioned something about getting tempted with your dark side. I have struggled with that. Good you see that cuz when you do indulge you feel crappy afterwards, depending on what it was. Guys tend think that women can never get weird and nasty as them. Heh heh, got news for ya darlin’.

    Brenda that voting stuff sounds fishy, like someone figured out a way to send thousands. I cd sometimes, but just dont feel interested or really have time. I tend to cd old guys that just sit and worship me, puff up my head and make me feel young (er). ow They are easy

    Ella what speeds up the process? Well one thing that helped me was counting the days I was away from a break up. I would be like one day feels horrible but day seven will be better, I did not necessarily feel better but kind of felt safer and further away from it. I liked 30 days alot, six months felt strong and big and at a year was not thinkng of him constantly. But one time there was a man I pined for, for three years. I did the counting thing a lot.

    Laughing Goddess:

    “But Mr Charisma has a sweet side too and I wonder if he would be his higher self if he had the right woman. I think his drinking player side is masking his heartache over his last breakup. ” This looks like a big red flag. Well he might be motivated if there was the right woman but he is not dong that for you and you deserve that. The other girl who pulled away and left triggered his feelings but not enough for him to beg her to stay. does he know you cd? cd wakes them up because you are still single and available in case he wants to step up. But the drinking stuff doesnt look good. What if you said “look you seem to still be messed up over this girl and since I want both of to be happy, why dont we cool off for awhile, call me in a year.” Sometimes they are like “huh? I have to wait a year for her?” Or just leave because nothing makes you less attractive to him knowing you are just waiting for him. Also when guys are truly brokenhearted a naked supermodel standing in front of them does not move them. Anyway I dont know enough about your history so these comments could be way off. So send me a slap up the side of the head. Just kidding. Give me more details if you want and maybe I can help.

  334.  #334LonePlum on March 8, 2011 at 9:31 am

    Brenda 327

    It was around February 22nd that we came to realize that Rori’s blog had indeed been taken in the poll.

    This morning, there were 495 votes, that’s 33 votes a day by sirens, directly, without forwarding the link.
    Which seems balanced with the number of comments under each articles. Some sirens voted twice (desk top and lap top and work ) some sirens forgot to vote etc…

    If we had voted since February 15th which is , I think, when it started, we would have had this morning 33 x 22 days = 726 votes

    I don’t see how the other sites who have got no comments or less than here, can have been voted 4000 times!
    But never mind he he he

    Anyway, the missing votes from the first week were caught up today.

    Again here is the link


  335.  #335nanceen on March 8, 2011 at 9:40 am

    Sweet pea:

    the beer and drinks story was so funny but also infuriated me. I HATE GUYS THAT THINK THEY ARE ENTITLED. F off and die you cheapass.

    My rule is I dont owe SQUAT to a man just because HE decides to buy me a drink or jewelry or dinner or flowers. PERIOD. There is nothing in those items that says who or what he is. They are nice gestures and I am willing to sit and listen to him to see who he is. I also never took advantage of man. I would try and see what his budget was like. A young man just starting out with nothing, some good pizza and coke, great, much appreciated. Donald Trump: you better send a lear jet to pick me up, dont be late and for my birthday I want a house and a staff to run it. Also if I just did not have chemistry with a guy I never let them keep spending money. Thats why just coffee is nice. No one gets hurt.

  336.  #336LonePlum on March 8, 2011 at 9:43 am

    Speaking of vote he he he

    From Rori:

    I’m going to use voting as a Tool to feel more powerful – so let’s look at it just from the personal perspective of your love life.

    Let’s say that voting isn’t about politics – it’s about empowerment. It’s about believing that you count. Just you, one person, one woman.

    We get so caught up in feeling like part of a “group” – where we have little influence on others, and yet the “culture” of the group infuences US.

    And then we narrow that down even further, and feel as though a man has influence over us, but we have none over him.

    Just the fact and the feeling that we love him or desire him makes us feel weak. And then we react to that in different ways. We can react to feeling weakened by our desire by running away from him. And if running away doesn’t work, because he feels actually even more inspired to chase us – then we push him away.

    We push him away by closing our hearts, by treating him as if he’s an irresponsible, unworthy child who needs our guidance, and by unleashing all our stored up anger and fear on him.

    Not registering to vote, and not showing up to vote are the same – on a huger scale. We feel powerless. We feel unimportant. We quote statistics to PROVE we’re powerless in the world, just as we can easily quote statistics to prove there are no good men out there and that most marriages fail. We can talk ourselves out of power.

    There are lots of ways to reverse this.

    Let’s talk ourselves INTO Power. Into believing we HAVE Power.

    To feel empowered with a man, we have to believe in our own desires – that they are WORTHY, that they are GOOD. That, just because we’re a woman, we DESERVE and are entitled to HAVE our desires. And from there – when a man shows up who actually wants to help us have what we want in love and life – we can agree with him! We can RECEIVE the love he has to offer. We can TAKE what he gives. We can feel our power to influence HIS life – without even trying.

    So start with small things to begin believing that you make a difference in your world.

    See how when you water a plant and take care of it, it grows. See how – instead of following tragedy and pain in the news, you read about and watch things that inspire you, make you feel creative, and make you want to take ACTION for yourself (I love home-decorating shows because of this).

    See how when you love an animal or a child, just from the overflowing radiance of your heart, and not from a desire to GET love back, it blossoms.

    See how when you give love to YOURSELF, you bloom. And see how when YOU bloom, everyone around you blooms, too. Especially your man. Especially his love for you.

    So, if you’re not registered to vote, go do it. Make a decision that you count, no matter what anyone says.

    And then make your decision about who you want to vote for and what propositions on the ballot in your state you want to support and which you want to say No to based on feeling powerful – as if your vote would be the deciding vote.

    You can register really easily online, you print out the form and mail it in. I googled a bunch of places, here’s one I thought was fun and easy:

    Don’t give up on ANYTHING. Keep your dreams of love alive, vote for yourself, and I’ll keep giving you Tools to make it all happen.

    Love, Rori

    written by Rori Raye •
    Sunday, 21 September 2008 @ 1:00pm


  337.  #337indiandatingonline on March 8, 2011 at 9:47 am

    guys pls check this obe it will help you alot..

  338.  #338Ella on March 8, 2011 at 10:08 am

    Brenda thanks.

    Yes I do remember that post. Think there was also something about how ideally you would probably leave that church/pub wherever, bc it no longer was a useful part of your life…

    However I do not feel like that.

    I feel drawn to go to that pub still. And I want to be able to. Like I said it is my local and has all the local people from the village…

    Re being Rockstar, yes that is the way to go… I am just not sure I have the nerve yet… but I am also stubborn so I probably will.

    Re the speech – I will only say it to him if the circumstance arises that I feel its appropriate. And the truth is I don’t want a cordial, business like relationship with him, that would feel SO weird.

    I want a romantic relationship with him. However I don’t want one while he is using (I guess the tranlation of that is that I don’t want a romantic relationship with him at this time – ow, that feels good to say!).

    F it I will go.

    When I am ready.

    And I will be Rockstar. And it will be fine. People have done much braver things, lol.

    And when I do go I will just be my magnetic, Sirenly self and react to whatever comes my way whilst holding my boundaries.

    Just cus he is there doesn’t mean I should re-organise my social life, although perhaps trying some new places wouldn’t hurt either.

    Thanks Brenda for helping me work through this some.

    Other Siren input welcome too 🙂


  339.  #339Gingersky on March 8, 2011 at 10:13 am

    #7 LonePlum: If I may be so bold as to share the Siren thoughts & feelings that come up for me when I read your awesome post, which I so relate to, and which blesses & teaches me so much… here’s a message to myself and all Sirens who get something out of it: You are awesome. You clearly deserve a man of high degree and caliber, honor and inclusiveness of always sharing every special moment with you and showing you off to everyone in his world as his woman (his “whoa, man”!). One who easily loves, touches, moves, treasures & cherishes you earnestly and honestly as his dearest and best, his dream of a lifetime. Imagine what that would feel like… look like… how would you feel inside?? How would you move? What would you wear? What would the sky look like when you feel this love, and how would a street or nature scene change in your mind’s eye? Your avatar says you are blue…? (my projection, it’s about me) You deserve to be every beautiful color of happiness, aliveness and love you deeply imagine and feel. What is real for you in *this* picture of life? Feel it now. Let it radiate within and out of you, and let it wash back into you like the ocean on the shore… receive it now, the pulsing life of the love you know you are, and which deserves to be matched by *your* lifelong man. You are full of life, let it well up, whether in tears or laughter, let it be and be it. You are alive… gloriously… and ever shall be.

  340.  #340Gingersky on March 8, 2011 at 10:20 am

    #18 Laughing Goddess: Thanks! My private email is Anyone can use this if they want. Looking forward to sharing more about NLP etc!!! Hugs to you!

    All of you are helping me so much w your posts, I can’t even describe. Sp many precious words here that I will now always have w me and which are changing me. Thanks for your openness, vulnerability, grit, intelligence, wisdom… presence.

    Love the EVM quote (your ex wasn’t that great bc he was willing to let go of you.)

    I read a “top twitter post” last year that I put on my fridge… if this doesn’t say it I don’t know what does. (Am I good at it? Parts of me are, and other parts have to grow and catch up, and to be strong w out the brittel/fake f-u “strength that comes from defensiveness, triggers, judgements, emptiness, need, fear, pain… so not yet but I’m getting better, and am miles away from where I was when I found this quote):

    “Never make someone your priority while allowing yourself to be their option.”

    Blessings all!

  341.  #341Brenda on March 8, 2011 at 10:21 am


    RE: 335 – I love that article Rori wrote on voting and believing in ourselves that we count, etc. I never read that one before.

  342.  #342nanceen on March 8, 2011 at 10:23 am

    I did vote for rori.

    I think someone just figured out a way to shove in lots of votes. They probably think he is great and thats cool but thats silly to cheat.

    I remember a few years ago a local paper had a vote for best ___________, you know hairdresser, pizza, drycleaner, musician…it was just blanks you sent in and some band major stuffed the ballot box. They got suspicious when he had 10 more than anyone. In fact it looked like everyone in the country voted for him.

  343.  #343Brenda on March 8, 2011 at 10:25 am


    I love reading your posts! What color are you? Ginger! If you want to show us, you can post your photo, or A photo, on!

  344.  #344Gingersky on March 8, 2011 at 10:26 am

    Two of my Siren songs: “Love Alive” by Heart (a lifelong fave & one that I sing… hope to get a gig soon as chanteuse and earn some needed money here). “”Never Gonna Get It” by EnVogue, esp the MTV video where they are so feminine, strong, self-sure, inviting, receptive, kick-ass, warm yet not needy in their dancing and their vibe.

  345.  #345Laughing Goddess on March 8, 2011 at 10:29 am

    Still processing all these memories. I woke up feel tired and groggy.

    The thing I have the hardest time reconciling is my confusion as a little girl about how my mom would say stepdad was an evil genius and horrible and manipulative. She would make a big scene about leaving him. Quite dramatic stuff like the police coming to the house while he held her at knife point. Then we would leave, go to a homeless shelter, and a week later she would be back with him.

    That was soooooo confusing to me as a little girl, the constant up and downs. I didn’t understand why she kept going back to someone who she thought was evil. And I couldn’t understand why she would expose us to so much danger.

    And this is what I want to come to terms with. I wonder if I can reframe the memory?

    I really need some help with this.

  346.  #346Laughing Goddess on March 8, 2011 at 10:33 am

    I would feel so excited whenever we left him and heartbroken every time they got back together. She only finally left him when he was put in jail for arson. I never saw him again after that. This all happened when I was 8-14.

  347.  #347Ella on March 8, 2011 at 10:33 am

    So whats up with this?

    Today 3 guys have randomly got in contact in the space of about 2 hours… I have made no effort towards CD-ing recently except to be warm and open. I am not currently on any dating websites either.

    I wasn’t expecting to hear from any of them…

    One guy called up and left a message. He is a guy from the city who I’ve been on a couple of dates with and he always pursues me and I haven’t really felt all that attracted, but he is ok.

    He invited me out at the weekend coming and he left this real step up message, finishing with ‘call me’. You know how Rori says we only need to call back if they specifically ask us to…

    Then Mr Lukewarm, another CD from internet who I’ve dated once but he talks a lot and I feel bored. Well I was supposed to meet him for a date on Sunday. He was going to drive 2 and half hours to me just to drive around with me for a few hours but I cancelled as was feeling v tired.

    Well he texted to see how I am.

    Then a guy (CD) from ages ago who again I was not that attreacted too and I told him and was quite honest with him and kept telling him about not feeling really attracted, when I felt bored etc… well he gave me a missed call.

    No message so this one could have been an accident…

    Just all feels kinda fluky though.

    But thank you universe for sending me these guys to workship on my alter and to practice with.

    When I think back to Mr B, he was kinida step up, in his own way, ie: he would call always and also plan the dates cus I just wouldn’t.
    But in a lot of ways he wasn’t.

    It always felt like hard work as he didn’t seem to do the stepping up naturally, more bc I wasn’t picking up the oars.

    If he ever got my voicemail he never left a message asking me to call back.

    And when he is rejected by me he disappears… whereas these guys keep coming back for more.
    I am gonna steer away from making judgements about B except to say that for me it seemed as though he would be happy to sit in the boat and let a woman row…

    At least he thinks he would 😉

    So funny how the ones I am not bothered about have no problem stepping up, and the ones I want have issues with it!! Grrr.

    Je ne comprandez pas!

  348.  #348Luzydel on March 8, 2011 at 10:36 am

    I feel used and disappointed and hurt. After two months pursuing me, I feel D is no longer interested. The few txt I get from him are attempt to have sex with me and not attempts to be more.

    He worked so hard to get me open my self and trust him. I was reluctant at the beginning but I gave him a chance. One day he just pull away. I feel it and that makes me feel sad.
    How can I trust a nice man again?

    And now I just got a txt from him asking me when we can meet up again and acting a bit jealous with questions about me going on dates with ‘strangers’. I said I am getting invitations, but have not accept any yet (which I true).
    Wow he is acting up. Not mean or bad, but just letting me know I am ‘his’. I just said…I really would like that, but I want you to be sure. I don’t want to feel hurt and I don’t want to pressure you either. That’s all I could say that felt genuine. I have not get a response… gee leaning back has some effects on men. I’m surprised 🙂

  349.  #349Sweetpea on March 8, 2011 at 10:39 am


    I don’t have access to the computer, so I’ll keep this short, but wanted to address your situation. My favorite bar is right across the street from where my ex-bf lives. I met him there and when we split up I had to decide wwhether to continue to go there. I did, because I know people there and I feel comfortable there.

    It hasn’t come without its challenges, but all in all, I think it has helped me to move on more than it’s hindered. There have been times I came home and cried because of something hurtful he said or did, but I’ve experienced a ton of personal growth from it and looking back, I wouldn’t have done anything differently. I have rocked it and I feel truly Rockstar about it. I wish you the best. I can’t say I haven’t felt like he’s icked me when I’m down at times, and when that happened, I simply told him “that felt bad,” and walked away. A few times we had “text duels” after. As a result of the way he’s treated me, I don’t want anything more to do with him right now, so it’s not been easy and it’s not always been fun. To me, being able to extract him completely from my heart and get on with my life has been worth it. Thankfully he stays away from there for the most part. I would suggest going in, especially for the first few times when Barman isn’t working though. Jsut to kind of get your “feet back in the water.” What will be a help and maybe at times a hindrance for you, is that you’ll have a better idea when he’s gonna be there. I got caught off guard almost every time. That feels a little awkward to me. Sometimes I would just leave when he came in. I had to be in really close touch with my feelings and do what felt right at the time. And that was good exercise for me too.

    Hugs to you.

  350.  #350Laughing Goddess on March 8, 2011 at 10:40 am

    That ended 24 years ago but it still affects me today. I want to let it go.

    The biggest way it affected me was my self-worth. I was really a sweet little good with a huge heart. Those years of my life were all about her drama. Me listening to her all the time. Me taking care of the kids through all of this and not really having a life of my own.

    It really affected my self-worth. How could she choose a psycho over me, her daughter? What does that make me?

    One of the last times she left him, I had a total meltdown. She said we were finally going to move out of the homeless shelter and into our own apartment this one weekend. I was so excited! Then when it came down to the time, it didn’t happen because she didn’t have enough money. I freaked out. I lost it. I couldn’t handle getting my hopes up and have them crash to the floor again.

  351.  #351Laughing Goddess on March 8, 2011 at 10:43 am

    I know I can’t change the past but I can change my perspective of the memories.

    I have to. This is weighing too heavy on my heart.

  352.  #352Brenda on March 8, 2011 at 10:45 am

    I am not really needing advice, more venting than anything. I mean, I don’t mind feedback, just blowing off steam tho.

    I’m feeling pissed at Kenny. His letters and phone calls are full of convincing, convincing, and I am most assuredly feeling resistant. Over and over, I feel pressured to do this, do that, and I don’t even feel like taking his phone calls, because it’s such a turn-off.

    In the interests of re-establishing my boundaries, I told him 2-3 months ago that I no longer want to have sex play as part of our platonic friendship. After 11 years, and no longer being married to him for valid reasons, I felt unenthusiastic about phone sex, and I didn’t want to send him more personal photos (he is in prison, to the new Sirens).

    Ever since then, for 2-3 months, he’s been pressuring me in every convincing way he can think of to get me to re-engage in sex play with him. He blames my friends, blames my church, blames me, on and on. I have given him a huge margin of adjusting to the idea (ie, 2-3 months), because it is a challenge to go backward in a relationship. I also let him have transition time because in the past, I didn’t know how to hold my boundaries, and he didn’t think I would stick with what I said.

    Now his transition time is over. The other day, I was intending to tell him I wanted to take a break from the friendship until he would quit disrespecting my boundaries. On our 15 minute phone call (he can call back, but being on a tight budget, most days we limit it to 15 minutes), I was also practicing listening. I kept waiting for him to stop, or to ask for feedback. Finally we were 14 minutes into the call, and I said, “Ok, let me give you some feedback!”

    He actually interrupted me, saying, “No, I don’t want feedback right now. Just think about it.” I felt so unheard! Because I literally was! When he called yesterday, I was unable to take his calls. I’m sure he thot I was being cold, and part of me doesn’t mind at all that I missed his calls. Today I am dreading his call.

  353.  #353Lilybelle on March 8, 2011 at 10:45 am

    350: (really, all your posts with this processing..

    I hug you, tight.


  354.  #354Ella on March 8, 2011 at 10:48 am

    LG – hugs.

    I feel as though anything I say may seem as though I am making light of the situation, which is not my intention at all, just thinking out loud about a re-frame really.

    Initial thoughts.

    Yes it must have felt confusing and how about that your mum was probably a toxic man addict as many of us here are…

    Look at some of the things we do and the men we attach to, and we are Sirens with access to a whole lot of support.

    I can imagine your mum may not have had access to the same kind of support.

    Toxic men can have a very strong pull over women who are co-toxic.

    And how about aiming to process your anger, anger is a good emotion here, and also believing that she did her best, even if it was far from ideal.

    And how about he was not ‘all bad’. He was not just an evil genius or whatever label was given to him at the time.

    All people are a mixture of things, positive things and weaknesses. He would have been the same.
    That doesn’t excuse his behaviour, however it might help the re-frame to take a milder view.

    He was a man with his own issues, with some traits that were very harmful and felt awful, and some that were positive.

    Everyone has something, even the most dispicable.

    I am not suggesting that we exucuse bad behaviour, just that we look at the possibility that he probably didn’t set out as a young man thinking ‘hmmm, how can I be an evil genious and hurt my wife and child?’.

    How does that feel?


  355.  #355Gingersky on March 8, 2011 at 10:53 am

    #342 Thanks Brenda! Lol, I am spicy sweet healing fresh earthy ginger inside and out, and full of the sky! (esp since the weather’s warming up here and it’s sunny out 😉 I won’t post a pic of me here for privacy reasons (not yet anyway) but will post something… many thanks for the info on how to do it.

    The energetic meaning of ginger is strength (flower essence-wise).

    Email me at gingersky234@gmail and I can direct you to my Fb page… I have photos there. My privacy issue is all about anyone (here, in my personal life, past or future finding me or what I post here… I know there are women in my town on here.

    I feel the *very strong* need of having a safe space to share, feel and say *whatever* I want. I know, am known by and am connected w LOTS of people, and some know of and participate in my relationship here w the man I love, who is also known by lots of people in quiet yet public ways all over the country (some of them women he’s dated or will possibly yet connect with, depending how things turn 🙁 This public social networking stuff is something I love, yet it must be handled w discretion, good sense & planning — and I’ve too often let my impulsiveness take over and learned hard & upsetting, peace-killing lessons.

    You can friend me on Fb if u want. I just don’t want my presence here being at all public or known by anyone, as I know there are women in my town on here.

    Thanks for respect & discretion… it feels *hugely healing* for me to have that! 🙂

    Love to you, my deep-diving, honest and passionate friend! E-mail me!

  356.  #356Senior Lady Vibe on March 8, 2011 at 10:53 am

    @332: nanceen says:
    “…Brenda that voting stuff sounds fishy, like someone figured out a way to send thousands…”

    I think Brenda also mentioned something about the voting being off.

    On the other hand, I am surprised that the votes are not higher. I checked a few minutes ago and first place candidate has 4,296 votes.

    Number of comments on a blog do not count. Only actual votes count.

    If there are 10 sirens willing to vote for Rori everyday and they started on February 22, they would have 15 days of voting, or 150 votes. If each of those sirens has two others(girlfriends, mother) who will also vote that is 450 votes.

    If it’s just each group of 10 voting by themselves with only one computer that is still 150 votes.

    10x15x3 = 450

    So how many groups of 10 fans would you need for 4,500 votes? To win.

    4,500 / 450 = 10 groups of 10

    100 sirens/subscribers could win easily. How large is Rori’s subscriber list? I’d have to guess. How warm is it? I’d have to guess. No money involved… How about a 2% pull…? Are they obsessive types, like me, would they pine over a guy, you know obsess, want to win. Yeah I think so, 4% pull.

    4% of list = 100
    .04X = 100
    X = 2,500 subscribers list size

    These are all “quesstimates” to be sure but I suspect all the candidates have lists larger than 2,500.

    I don’t see anything “fishy.” But there is power in people working together, being prepared and encouraging each other. And there is next year and maybe another contest. Some people truly hate these contests but I like them and in terms of business if I won I’d place a winner medallion logo or banner graphic on my web site site: “Voted best dating blog 2011.”


  357.  #357Brenda on March 8, 2011 at 11:02 am


    I’m still listening to and watching “By Your Side”, over and over! It’s so soothing and comforting. And, the words of devotion and compassion show me the opposite of Ryan, reminding me he DID leave me when I was down on my knees. I want the kind of man who will comfort and soothe me when I’m down.

  358.  #358Ella on March 8, 2011 at 11:06 am


    That feels good to hear.

    Like I am not just some crazy stalker to want to go back to my local, just bc he happens to be there…

    That is on NV in my head though… that people will think that.

    I worry far too much about what people think.

    Well I feel good that I will go back when I am ready.

    And I feel terrified of the time when I do go back… like shaky inside and as though I may be overcome and destroyed somehow (v dramatic I know).

    Thanks for the input!


  359.  #359Ella on March 8, 2011 at 11:08 am

    Re the voting… is there not something that stops more than one vote coming from one computer?

    I don’t know how these things work.

  360.  #360Brenda on March 8, 2011 at 11:13 am


    You said, “And this is what I want to come to terms with. I wonder if I can reframe the memory?

    I really need some help with this.”

    I want to cry reading about your childhood. What helped me reframe my memories was to lie down, get real still, close my eyes, and then do some inner work.

    Instead of my Dad yelling, with angry eyes, I pictured God as my father, with soft, compassionate, forgiving eyes, gently resting his hand on my shoulder when I did wrong, saying, “It’s okay, honey, I know you’re still learning.” or something like that.

    In your memories, I would tell myself as your mother, “Honey, I love you so much, but I was so confused during those years. I thot I loved him, but I didn’t know how to break away from abuse. I am so sorry my damaged, unwise decisions affected you and your wellbeing.

    “If I had it to do over again, I would have told him to beat it and don’t look back. We may have struggled for a while, but we would have lived in a happy, laughing house with peace.”

    Love and Hugs, Brenda

  361.  #361Senior Lady Vibe on March 8, 2011 at 11:16 am

    @356: Brenda says:
    I’m still listening to and watching “By Your Side”,…”

    😀 I listened to it many times yesterday. Now that you’ve mentioned… tee hee… I haven’t listened to it today…. so clicking it on. I wonder if PG still listens… I got it from her!

    I’m glad I did. I always sense I’m preparing for my unknown sweetie when I hear it. Yea!

    “I will find you darling and I will bring you home…”


  362.  #362Senior Lady Vibe on March 8, 2011 at 11:19 am

    @358: Ella says:
    “…Re the voting… is there not something that stops more than one vote coming from one computer?…”

    Yes, usually set to only count one vote from each computer during a 24 hour period.


  363.  #363Gingersky on March 8, 2011 at 11:27 am

    #359 Brenda & LG: I have agreeting card w painting of lion’s face that is like God’s fatherly face looking at me… Aslan… when I know I’ve acted badly, it looks one way, like holding me accontable… when I’m sad it looks compassionate… kind os a magic picture. What we see is usually what’s in us. And I have a book about a similar story… I’ll try & remember to post photo of lion card, as well as info on the book (it’s an oldie but goodie). Gotta go for now. Blessings wonderful Sirens.

  364.  #364Ladybird on March 8, 2011 at 11:28 am

    Evening Sirens!

    I’ve been reading all your posts for ages but really need to go and study……

    Brenda: I’ve been reading your posts and so happy to hear you are feeling much better about things! What a difference a day makes, huh?

    Nanceen: I’m sorry to read about your situation and health BUT you come across as one amazing woman. Seems like there is plenty of tea and sympathy on here when you need it!

    Ella @317 & 325:
    I’ve just finished a relationship and really feel like I am letting go just fine.
    Here is what I am doing to help the process:
    1. I take one day at a time and some days are easier than others.
    2. Whenever I think of him, I flip it and think of what nice things I am going to do for ME that day. Easier said than done though!
    3. I type a list of reasons why I don’t want to be with him then delete it but when that list grows I realise I made the right decision.
    4. I laugh at how dysfunctional he is and how stupid I was to ignore it!
    5. I think of how sad, anxious, insecure he made me feel sometimes and it reminds me I don’t want to sign up to another day never mind a life feeling like that!
    6. My friends all remind me I’ve had a lucky escape!!
    7. I’m writing a journal in bed at night. I just free flow write and sometimes I vent about him and sometimes I don’t, but it’s getting less. I suppose I’m getting him out of my system.
    8. I think about the kind of relationship I do want and deserve.
    9. I go running and swimming as it helps me feel good and raises my endorphin levels.
    10. I’ve planned to do things I enjoy, things that feed the authentic me.
    11. I’ve planned to go to Geneva to see a good friend for a long weekend (I’m in the UK).
    12. I’m trying to go to bed early and get a good night’s sleep.
    13. I’m eating lots of healthy wholesome food to raise my energy levels again as he drained me.
    14. I’ve ordered the Modern Siren programme and excited to listen and try out the tools. Gonna download it onto my iPod and listen to it in bed at night and in the car and re-programme myself. What I was doing didn’t help me to find Mr. Right so I need to change what I’m doing.
    15. It’s not a quick fix and I’m not ready to CD yet, but feel I’m investing time in ME.
    16. I log onto this site and get amazing strength from all of you!

    As Brenda mentions, don’t let the fact he is somewhere put you off going but keep your distance and do your thing and try to ignore him. I had to face my ex in an office all of last week and I just got my head down and worked like crazy. I was proud that I managed to face him and keep it all together but it wasn’t easy so only go if you think you can handle and it will help you to take a step forward. Good Luck and if you do go to the pub, imagine we’re all there with you, looking over your shoulder, making sure you are being a beautifully well-behaved SIREN!

    Darling Ella & 312: Happy Intl Women’s Day indeed!

    LilyBelle@ 330: he is on the verrrryyyy back of the horse – made me smile!

  365.  #365Laughing Goddess on March 8, 2011 at 11:35 am

    Thank you all for your comments. I feel really gotten and touched. Im still too deep in my process to be able to comment further but thank you so much. It’s all really helpful.

    I have a very few memories from childhood and the few that I have are these dramatic painful ones. The times he beat her, threatened to kill me.

    I know I must have some happy memories in my subconscious. I want to access those.

    I do remember going in a flower shop and being overwhelmed with the sights and smells. I was in ecstasy. I was so excited to go into the cooler and buy two stems for my mom with my allowance.

    I’m seeing that my little girl needs attention from me. I really need to give her the love and attention now.

  366.  #366Brenda on March 8, 2011 at 11:39 am

    I just hung up on Kenny. I admit, I lost my temper, and I was yelling.

    He said I was mean and hateful toward him. I said I’m not mean and hateful just because I say I no longer want a sexual relationship with him. He asked if I read his letter. I said I read 4 or 5 pages, but it was all full of blame and pressure, and I don’t want to read that shit, so I finally threw it down. He said, see, that’s what I mean. I take all this time to write you letters and you don’t even read them half the time. I said I read all your letters. I told him I am sick of all his blame and pressure, and I feel completely turned off and shut down. This was after about 15 minutes of discussion.

    He said, “So you go run to your mother, come home weighing another 5 lbs, and soon you’ll weigh 400 lbs.”

    That’s when I hung up, because it was a low blow.

    In the past, I was so emotionally needy that I couldn’t not take his daily calls, or not go visit him in prison. He’s finding out I know who I am now, and I’m not going to take his shit.

  367.  #367Simply Shannon on March 8, 2011 at 11:42 am

    LG, I wouldn’t focus on your mother or your step-dad. I’d reframe your story by focusing on the good things that came out of your childhood for you and you alone.

    I am a really sweet little girl with a huge heart. That did not changed in spite of the drama.

    I learned to live my life in spite of the drama.

    I learned to listen to my mother and accept her, even love her, in spite of the drama.

    I learned to take care of my siblings in spite of the drama.

    I learned what I want and don’t want in my life.

    My childhood was not text book perfect but I’m okay and I am a much more colorful, resourceful, independent, charming woman because of it.

  368.  #368Laughing Goddess on March 8, 2011 at 11:52 am

    I also remember feeling a guiding force in my life. I always felt connected to spirit. There was an underlying joy. I remember finding peace in nature, music, reading, my intellect. I loved performing. And I was really smart and creative. I found solace in that. It was one thing I had control over, my mind.

    And I was so sweet. So kind to children and animals. A little shy with people but very devoted.

    I liked to do gymnastics to the Rocky soundtrack.

    I felt a guiding force in my life for sure. I felt a love for life. I was very independent. At 9 years old I was caring for all of my siblings, including an infant, while my mom was at work. I loved doing that. I feel so impressed by what I was able to do at 9 years old. What am independent spirit I was!

    I’m noticing that I’m speaking as if I am a different person now. But I’m not. I’m still the same little girl with all those amazing qualities! Awwwww that feels good.

  369.  #369Laughing Goddess on March 8, 2011 at 11:53 am

    Woah SS. We just posted that at the same time. Wow!

  370.  #370Gingersky on March 8, 2011 at 11:55 am

    #351 Brenda: I’m back bc for a minute… this scenario sounds familiar. My guess is he feels unheard (whether that seems “valid” to you or anyone else, what he feels is what he feels) and you may not need for him ot hear yu in order for you to feel heard. You have to hear you, then you’ll have what you need — enough at least to get balanced and secure inside. He may need to be like that for awhile till he gets balanced and secure inside, and his feeling of not being heard does away. For a man to get cut off from sex equals being rejected, slammed, made insignificant, ignored, treated like an object etc. That’s how they often feel connected is thru sex.
    You cut him off and I agree and admire totally how you got to that. It feels good for me to read it 🙂

    You’re needing him to process/comminicate and validate yourself… he’s reaching out for the sense of connectin he so needs. Are you both trying to make each other your “bitch” in some way. He’s your validation/processing-bitch and you’ve become his sex/connection-bitch? It never feels good to any healthy person to be anyone’s bitch, not much and not for long at least.

    He sounds like he’s trying whatever he can (low blows) to retain his hold over what he wants. He’s using nagativity (lol, that misspelling was an awesome accident so I’m leaving it! I just made a new word. Lol!) and coercion… maybe what got him in prison to begin with? And it’s not good for you it seems. And you aren’t cooperating 🙂 bc it feels bad and invalidating and draining for you? It’s not who you are now? It’s another good learning lesson? I’m learning from your situation myself. Thanks for sharing.

    #364 U to LG… Lisi & others… xox 🙂

  371.  #371nanceen on March 8, 2011 at 12:05 pm

    Luzydel what words would make you feel sure? Marriage on the table? A ring? Him saying there is no other and you are the forever girl. Find out what words make you feel that this is right.

    I feel used and disappointed and hurt. After two months pursuing me, WERE YOU ABLE TO CD DURING THIS TME AND KEEP THE FOCUS OFF OF HIM SO YOU DID NOT GET ATTACHED? I feel D is no longer interested. The few txt I get from him are attempt to have sex with me and not attempts to be more. YOU ARE WAY, WAY, WAY TOO GOOD FOR THAT. AND YOU CANT CHANGE HIS CHEAP DISRESPECTFUL ATTITUDE. BUT YOU CAN CHANGE YOU BY WALKING AWAY WITH YOUR PRIDE INTACT.

    He worked so hard to get me open my self and trust him. I was reluctant at the beginning but I gave him a chance. One day he just pull away. I feel it and that makes me feel sad.
    How can I trust a nice man again?THIS IS NOT A NICE MAN OR AT LEAST THIS IS NOT NICE BEHAVIOR.

    And now I just got a txt from him asking me when we can meet up again and acting a bit jealous with questions about me going on dates with ‘strangers’. I said I am getting invitations, but have not accept any yet (which I true). YOU TELL HIM THESE ARE NOT STRANGERS. PLEASE ACCEPT THESE INVITATIONS AND GO!. DO NOT ACT IMPRESSED BECAUSE HE IS ACTING POSSESSIVE, HE IS BEING SELFISH AND DISRESPECTFUL. HE DOES NOT HAVE YOUR BEST INTERESTS AT HEART. ASK HIM IF HE WOULD WANT HIS DAUGHTER, MOTHER OR SISTER TO GO OUT WITH A MAN WITH HIS INTENTIONS.
    Wow he is acting up. Not mean or bad, but just letting me know I am ‘his’.HOW ARE YOU HIS? HIS BED PARTNER? YOU DONT WANT THAT YOU DESERVE THE PROPOSAL, RING, FUTURE PLANS OR WHATEVER MAKES YOU FEEL SECURE. I just said…I really would like that WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE, TRY AND BE MORE SPECIFIC, IMAGINE WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE AND DESCRIBE IT. , but I want you to be sure. I don’t want to feel hurt and I don’t want to pressure you either. NO HE IS PRESSURING YOU. I DONT SEE ANY PLACE WHERE YOU PRESSURED HIM. AND PLEASE ACCEPT THOSE INVITATIONS. AFTER YOU ACCEPT THOSE INVITATIONS AND GO AND HE KNOWS SEE HOW HE ACTS. That’s all I could say that felt genuine. I have not get a response… gee leaning back has some effects on men. I’m surprised 🙂

  372.  #372ConfuzzledCookie on March 8, 2011 at 12:08 pm

    Another Siren song I just heard in the car today.
    Don’t know if any of you like pop, or not, or Britney Spears, but the lyrics to her song “Toy Soldier” scream siren. Haha.

  373.  #373Laughing Goddess on March 8, 2011 at 12:17 pm

    Oh wow! And I can see that some of the things I’m struggling with now are totally related to my past.

    I feel frustrated with my home. It feels chaotic and dirty. I desperately crave order, beauty, and organization in my life. I have this cycle of things getting out of control, then I work really hard to get everything clean and nice, then things get chaotic again. I really want to maintain the order, without the ups and downs.

    Also food, I really struggle with feeding myself lately. I just don’t eat until I get ravenous. I just don’t want to put the energy and time into making food. I’m totally neglecing that part of myself.

    This feels so much like my childhood patterns.

    Wow! I thought I was just a lazy procrastinator.

    Maybe I can reframe this as giving my little girl the level of care and well-being she always wanted.

    I could look at it as mothering that sweet little girl eater than neglecting her needs for regular food and a calm, peaceful home. I don’t have anything like the drama from childhood in my life now but my house always feels on the edge of chaos in the sense of functioning smoothly. There is always some sort of mess that need to be dealt with that I am avoiding.

  374.  #374Senior Lady Vibe on March 8, 2011 at 12:26 pm

    365: Brenda says:
    “…He said, “So you go run to your mother, come home weighing another 5 lbs, and soon you’ll weigh 400 lbs.”
    That’s when I hung up, because it was a low blow…”

    Yes, it was. I don’t unlike unfair stuff. I know it’s not nice but I’d probably respond with: “Maybe, but I’ll be carrying all my pounds in the beautiful sunshine of a spring day and you’ll still be in here….bye…”

    Sorry ’bout that… but hasn’t he been in prison for a very long time. Sorry again for snooping, but did he kill someone? Perhaps it’s time to for you to step away; he seems mean to me.


  375.  #375Laughing Goddess on March 8, 2011 at 12:40 pm

    Wow! I never connected the food thing to my childhood. There were so many other dramatic things happening that I never realized there was some serious neglect going on as well.

    My stepbrother was even taken from stepdad’s home by child services for neglect. This happened at some point after stepdad had moved out. We were all actually neglected but I didn’t ever realize this until now.

    And now I am neglecting myself in a certain way. WTF?

    Gotta turn this around.

    I never realized that I

  376.  #376nanceen on March 8, 2011 at 1:28 pm

    dear laughing Goddess

    I was stunned when I read your email.

    It was identical to my childhood and to my present state.

    I cant even change anything you said. I am doing it exactly right now.

    The only thing I can say is have you ever read anything on what a borderline personality is and also look up information about a child having a parent with something called Narcissistic personality disorder.

    A borderline has to do what normal people called excessive pampering or extreme care. “Normal” people will totally not understand the anxiety, procrastination and mess. Borderlines often have to work every other day and recover the next day or sometimes more. Often very bright they take forever to get things done. They are capable of doing it all but need a completely different schedule and time table. They feel miserable because they cannot do a little something everyday and keep it all up and 9 to 5m 5 days a week makes them crazy. Even a weekend is not enough to recover. Borderlines have never learned how to soothe themselves. They have no more skills at that than a 2 year old because that is usually about the age they were damaged. They are constantly in a elevated tension state and cannot even fathom that other people feel utterly calm inside or what it feels like. They dont even realize it. They dont like it but have no idea how to get out of or why they behave the way they do. Something called cognitive therapy is supposed to help, but what doesnt help is to try and force yourself to live the way other people do without the high level of care. They feel guilty when they can only focus on going to work and then hiring someone to do some cleaning (if they are lucky). They do not like the chaos or disorder but no matter what the good intentions it seems like a mad merry go round. They are not lazy, they are in pain and lack certain skills which are automatic to other people. That is why it looks easier to others, the skills and self care are done without thought. For us it is conscious effort and willpower and slips away easily if something comes up or distracts us.. It feels like work which cancels out the the peace we so desperately need.

  377.  #377nanceen on March 8, 2011 at 1:45 pm

    Borderline persons lack evocative memory, and so lack the ability to soothe and relieve their own anxieties.You may dart wildly about, following your impulses in a frantic effort to soothe the pain inside and create a shred of identity.

    But there is a ton of help and a lot of Rori’s tools are very soothing and healthy.

  378.  #378Ella on March 8, 2011 at 2:00 pm


    “If it feels good…keep thinking and doing it.

    If it feels bad…stop thinking and doing it.”

    So simple, so BRILLIANT! 🙂

  379.  #379Alonka on March 8, 2011 at 2:15 pm


    How are you hanging in there 😉 -?

  380.  #380ConfuzzledCookie on March 8, 2011 at 2:17 pm

    I sent a text. Maybe about 20 minutes ago.
    I figured, what the hell, why not…

  381.  #381Eternity on March 8, 2011 at 2:22 pm

    316 Boomer

    re alphamale

    not sure if lazy, maybe confused or more likely he has a case of ‘be careful what you wish for, it may just come true’. Hoping he steps up for you. his energy sounded impresssive from you post

  382.  #382Alonka on March 8, 2011 at 2:26 pm


    Exactly:) If he is a good serious guy it should be a nice start!

  383.  #383Ella on March 8, 2011 at 2:30 pm


    Thanks – some of those suggestions are really practical and feel great to read!


    I am going to practice them too.


  384.  #384Ella on March 8, 2011 at 2:34 pm


    It feels great to hear about you standinng up for yourself with Kenny.

    Feels like you finding your strength when I read about it.

    Just one thing that popped in my head when I was reading the post about Kenny, and I feel anxious not to upset you.

    I wonder if how you feel when you get Kenny’s letters blaming and pressuring, whether that might sometimes be how Ryan feels when he gets some of your texts and e-mails?

    I don’t know its just an idea.

    I am in no way excusing Ryan for anything or making less of your feelings about the situation.

    Just wondered if it could be s useful mirror?


  385.  #385ConfuzzledCookie on March 8, 2011 at 2:35 pm

    I couldn’t agree more!
    “You can’t say the wrong thing to the right guy.”

  386.  #386Eternity on March 8, 2011 at 2:38 pm

    322 Nanceen

    ” I always tried to be such a tough loner. Now I know life consists of nothing but relationships. I truly get it.”

    This brought me to tears, it’s how I feel too. I haven’t been able to put it into words like you did. Your words spoke to me. When I realised it, I realised the void around me. I’m going to have to work super hard at reconnecting again starting with me.

  387.  #387Ella on March 8, 2011 at 2:39 pm


    I think you were asking for my e-mail address on another thread?

    It is

    What is the tea?

    Thanks. xoxoxo

  388.  #388ConfuzzledCookie on March 8, 2011 at 2:49 pm

    Thanks for asking, and for your support! xo

    Yes, thanks, I’ll send you one right now.
    Yogi! It’s the best!

  389.  #389Alonka on March 8, 2011 at 2:52 pm


    I think Nanceen is giving you a very good advice. That’s how it was happening for me too, I felt that the guy was really into me and then it deteriorated before I even noticed it;) This is the time to demand everything you need. Later it will be too late.

  390.  #390Ella on March 8, 2011 at 2:59 pm


    I am sure it was only a few days ago that you were feeling really positive about this relationship?

    Correct me if I am wrong.

    Maybe he is just pulling away a but and it is nothing to panic about? You know like what CC sometimes talks about… & men r like rubber bands etc…

    How long since you last saw him and how long since you felt good in his attention?



  391.  #391Ella on March 8, 2011 at 3:05 pm

    Well I feel tired and in need of snuggling in my bed.

    Night lovely Sirens.


  392.  #392Alonka on March 8, 2011 at 3:08 pm

    Night Ella:) Sweet dreams

  393.  #393ConfuzzledCookie on March 8, 2011 at 3:13 pm

    Luzydell & Nanceen & Alonka,

    Me three.
    No more.
    Ha. Another song…
    “No More” by 3LW

    You do or you don’t don’t
    You will or you won’t won’t
    No more, no more baby I’ma do right
    You can or you can’t can’t
    Be a man, be a man, man
    No more, no more baby I’ma do right
    No I’m not the one, baby I’ma do right

  394.  #394femenergylove on March 8, 2011 at 3:22 pm

    so CD #1 is back…..can you see my grin beaming all the way from europe?
    he told me a very revealing thing.
    he said i did not know how to help him grow,he said he felt judged a lot of the times and really appreciated how patient i had been with him,but he said i asked him to be a certain way,do certain things and i EXPECTED him to do or be those things….
    can anyone see the words MASCULINE ENERGY AND EXPECTATIONS in there……
    back to the drawing board.
    this is the hardest thing for me,being in my masculine energy with my friends,at work etc,with my family and not kowing how to shift it properely,i seem to teeter back and forth.
    back to RR’s post on balancing it.
    it’s nice he is back,very much in his masculine energy which we both really like…PLEASE LET ME STAY ON THE WAGON THIS TIME!!!
    sigh…..sinking in sinking in sinking in

  395.  #395Alonka on March 8, 2011 at 3:27 pm


    So this guy disappeared for a while and then came back?

  396.  #396Alonka on March 8, 2011 at 3:37 pm


    Nice song, thanks;)

  397.  #397LonePlum on March 8, 2011 at 3:39 pm

    Laughing Goddess

    When being a victim makes us suffer, we can turn things around and become actors of our life.
    You could try these:

    ***Me taking care of the kids through all of this and not really having a life of my own. ***
    You did live your own life, within your own body.
    Your life was to be part of your family
    We all have a job in life, the job in your life was to take care of the kids. You contributed to your family. You helped yourself by doing your job properly.
    There is no universal law that say a child “should” live as a parasite inside his family and should receive but not give. This is not what is happening in 99% of the family around the world. This is a story you are telling yourself.
    Your mother taught you responsibility and work.
    She worked to feed and protect you and your brothers, and your worked at home to help her work. You were a team. Without your work at home, she would have had to quit her job and then you would have really been in troubles.
    What do you think you “should” have been doing during your young years rather than contribute to your family?

    ***It really affected my self-worth ***
    Did your worthy job ruin your worthiness or did the story you tell yourself about it?

    ***How could she choose a psycho over me, her daughter ***
    Can you give an example when she chose him over you?
    Did she take you with her to the shelter or did she take him?
    Did she ever leave you without her, apart from when she had to work and do errands for the family?
    Did she ever go on trips with him and leave you abandoned?

    ***One of the last times she left him, I had a total meltdown. She said we were finally going to move out of the homeless shelter and into our own apartment this one weekend. I was so excited! Then when it came down to the time, it didn’t happen because she didn’t have enough money. I freaked out. I lost it. I couldn’t handle getting my hopes up and have them crash to the floor again. ***
    Can you be sure she was not having a melt down herself?
    She used the money to feed you and your brothers, she did not keep any to pay her dream: “a flat without HIM”.
    Can you be sure she was not freaked out by her life, her responsibilities and the wall she was hitting, plus her daughter judging her, her daughter freaked out?
    Can you be sure she did not love her daughter, can you be sure she did not do all she could to protect her daughter’s hopes?
    There is no universal law that says mothers are magical beings who can do it all, and who become smart and powerful.
    Mothers are who they are, women.
    Some have great ideas to make money, others make barely enough money to survive. It is not related to the quality of their motherly love.
    Some believe in themselves and chose good men, others are wounded and think fighting with a man is love. They suffer greatly, but their children’s love keep them alive.
    You did have a life of your own. You did have a job of your own like all of us on earth. You can be proud of yourself.

    *** threatened to kill me ***
    You did not believe him. You were free to use your legs and walk out of the house and reach to your father. But you did not want to reach to your father. The proof being he did not know anything about it.
    You were free to beg your father to save you from death. But you did not tell him you were in danger. You knew it was pure drama, and you would be OK with your mother. You chose to stay with you mother. You loved your job in life.

    *** feel weird because tonight Mr Charisma said two things that reminded me of my stepdad. He kinda reminds me of him. Not in the bad ways. But something about their demeanor is similar. I think they are both Scorpios even. ***
    ***Oh god, and LI reminds me of my dad who is a very sweet man whom I love very much, although I do have some resentment towards him for letting me live around stepdad for so longer. I wanted him to rescue my sister and I. I asked him later why he didn’t and he said he had no idea what was really going on. ***

    You preferred to stay within the drama. You did not tell your father. Yet it is exciting to feel resentment, it keeps some drama in your life.
    The good news is today you chose the grounded man versus charisma man.
    You wanted the charisma man again, like when you were a child, but you leanrt better.
    Your mother kept going back to him hoping he would take care of her
    Your mother showed you what it is to prefer charisma man and alcohol, and you leanrt 😉 You did have a childhood of your own, it is serving well your adulthood.
    You did not take the risk to be without a man at all, you did not wait for charisma man to take care of you.
    You Cdated until a good man chose you.
    You leanrt from your mother and you chose to accept the man who was indeed taking care of you in the NOW.

    ***I feel frustrated with my home. It feels chaotic and dirty. I desperately crave order, beauty, and organization in my life. I have this cycle of things getting out of control, then I work really hard to get everything clean and nice, then things get chaotic again. I really want to maintain the order, without the ups and downs. ***

    Sweet LG, this is a typical home.
    Who told you a home is shiny and neat 100% of the time?
    In magazines?
    In homes where they can afford cleaning ladies and/or companies?
    In homes where it is clearly established it is the woman’s job and she stays home to do it properly every day?
    In homes where she cleans as a full time job so to deserve the salary her husband brings home?

    And so what if your neighbors are cleaner?
    If you “should” be in a clean hose you would be in a clean house.
    You live in a messy house because you get something out of it.
    You can do what you want. You are free to chose to clean and organize.
    Sometimes you chose to do it, sometimes you chose to not do it. It means nothing. You are alive and you live your life the way you chose.
    At the end we’ll all die and the state of your house won’t matter.
    What matters is that you live your life through YOUR feelings.
    You might be expressing that you miss the thrill of the drama, so you let things pile up until the adrenaline of being late gets you high.

    ***Also food, I really struggle with feeding myself lately. I just don’t eat until I get ravenous. I just don’t want to put the energy and time into making food. I’m totally neglecing that part of myself.***
    You eat when you are hungry. Like millions people on earth who go hungry most of the time, bless them.
    Who told you it is healthy to eat before you are hungry?
    Where is the universal law that says it is wrong to wait to be very hungry before we eat?
    And yes, cooking can be boring after a few decades
    Who told you this feeling of blah about cooking is not normal? Welcome to the human race 😉
    You are free, you experience what it feels to not cook at all . That’s what you are doing, checking to what point you are free.

    *** This feels so much like my childhood patterns. ***
    Can you give an example of you lacking food at home, when a child?

    ***My stepbrother was even taken from stepdad’s home by child services for neglect. This happened at some point after stepdad had moved out.***
    So it did not happen in your life.
    It is not your business, it is a story you are telling yourself, to add more drama
    Your family is addicted to drama 🙂
    This boy did not have your mother and you to feed him.
    You had your mother to feed you and to show you how to feed yourself and your brothers.

    ***We were all actually neglected but I didn’t ever realize this until now.***
    Can you be sure?
    Can you give an example of neglect?
    Your mother worked outside, she was taking care of your finances. Your worked at home, taking care of yourself and the brothers.
    Seems like everybody was being responsible within this team.


  398.  #398femenergylove on March 8, 2011 at 3:56 pm

    yes he did,i had a pretty hard time and went through so much opening up on the site during this time.i took the time to really analyse myself and just dug up all this stuff!
    when he showed up on friday he came to a small bar my friends and i usually hang out.he came with his friend who later told me cd 1 had begged him to come to this particular bar 🙂
    i was open to them both,did not treat them in any way different and just talked and had a nice time.i lost my room keys there that night and had to stay at a friends house.he surprised me by going by the bar the next day..which opened at 9 pm before i got there and looked for my keys for me,called me and said my keys were safely in his pocket 🙂
    he is very masculine in that way,now i just learn need to learn how to properly lean back and not pretend in anyway,i want it to be second nature,becasue i really like this one.
    he came back all on his own and it feels good that he did.was i afriad he wouldnt?everyday.i cried and blubbered a lot,i blamed myself,i dealt with my fears..which i am still dealing with…and i kept going out with other guys,and friends…to get away from it all and just to have a good time.and look who came sauntering in.. 🙂
    man was it painful,and the nasty voices keep trying to come back,but i have to remember to be compassionate with myself (DARIA) and to lean back (FEMININEWOMAN)(TINQUE)(love you guys)
    what would have happened if he didnt?
    i would have been very sad,but i continued to work on myself,and i got some surprsing results not just from him but random people in my dorm.
    learning learning learning…everyday..and trying to be concious.

  399.  #399Laughing Goddess on March 8, 2011 at 3:57 pm

    LP: My logical mind see your points, my hurt child does not.

    I know I need to reframe my perspectives.

    Thank you for offering a different version of the story.

  400.  #400Alonka on March 8, 2011 at 3:58 pm

    I’m struggling to be strong and stay on my bridge. And not feel weak and sink into what if’s.

    There is no what if, it is what it is. I was doing my best at my best understanding of the events. I could be right or wrong, but my intent was good. I should feel loved more. I should feel supported more. Next time I will know what I want. Next time I will say what I need. I will stay strong in who I am. I will stay soft and feminine and strong about my needs. I will stay at the best level of myself and speak of what I want for myself. It is about me and my life and I either do my best to make me happy or I have no one else to blame. I will live up to my dreams.

  401.  #401LonePlum on March 8, 2011 at 3:59 pm

    358: Ella

    Yes for people who don’t know a thing about computers and internet, it is a vote per connection…

    Otherwise there are ways to vote non limit.
    Some cases, you tun the computer off and then back on and you get a new connection ID, other cases you use a proxy etc… and many other ways…


  402.  #402Lucy on March 8, 2011 at 4:04 pm

    Sweetpea- Without thinking about the spider, do you know any person who fits the description: really pretty, small head, large abdomen, long elegant legs, and you admire her beauty? (does anyone come to mind, even if it doesn’t make much sense)

  403.  #403LonePlum on March 8, 2011 at 4:11 pm

    399 Alonka


    You did not know, it is not your fault
    Seems like the whole world does not know either

    You are learning to know yourself, so you will be fine now.

    You know I sense he respected you, this is why he could not go further.
    He was not wanting a relationship, he thought he could date you because he liked you a lot, then he realized he respected you and he was hurting you and he was keeping you away from your love.

    I think this is what he meant. “yes and no”
    He had no reason on his side to stop dating you, he liked you
    But you would waste you life and be getting old alone, with no man, if he kept you. He felt guilty and let you go.

    What do you think?


  404.  #404LonePlum on March 8, 2011 at 4:23 pm


    It is the perceptive we get when we do “The Work”
    We drop the “should be” and love what is.

    Maybe you would like to contact a facilitator on line and do the work about your mother?

    Here is one example


  405.  #405Brenda on March 8, 2011 at 4:24 pm


    RE: #369 – You put my unspoken, unknown feelings into words again. Thank you. That will help me sort it out and help me address future interactions with him.

  406.  #406Lucy on March 8, 2011 at 4:25 pm

    LP, the part of me that is similar in some ways to LG’s mother feels understood, comforted, and forgiven by what you wrote. *tears* LG, do you think any of your conflict with LI is related to reenacting the past and wanting LI (as an image of your father) to “do things differently this time” and “not let you down this time”? If so, then bringing healing to the past with your father could stop the pattern of conflict with LI. (I don’t need a response … don’t want to interrupt your process. <3)

  407.  #407Kristine on March 8, 2011 at 4:39 pm

    Well said Alonka… 🙂 Inspirational and so true..

  408.  #408Lucy on March 8, 2011 at 4:42 pm

    Sweetpea – also, how would you complete this statement? Spiders are …… (write everything that comes to mind.) Thx.

  409.  #409Daria on March 8, 2011 at 4:57 pm

    I dont want to do something “to get you back.” I’ve tried that, and it’s not what i want to do. I want you to come to me if you want to, and not if you don’t.

    I DO want to be incredibly attractive. I DO want you.

    I want to feel validated through your attention.


    I want to feel the way my heart rhythm hooks up with yours and i feel relaxed like last nite in the kitchen.

    I want to keep feeling that quiet safe magical feeling of us breathing in silence.

    I’m feeling confused

    if im not to speak to get you back i would say

    i felt hurt seeing you wtih that girl you call your girlfriend. i dont want to be your girlfriend, but im feeling bad about not feeling number one to you.

    i feel afriad im falling back into old patterns that are not good for me

    i feel glad to have you available for companionship

    i feel good that you call me

    i long for more physically and emotionally

    i feel good and bad good and bad here
    i feel confused

    i want to say NO MORE – but my reason for that would be to “get you back” – by rebound

    and i feel like im stuck wishing and hoping for more from you and that feels humiliating and i feel low self esteem and donw and kinda locked up in my body
    .. i feel sad.

    i dont want to feel this way

    i feel kinda stuck…

    what do you think?

  410.  #410Daria on March 8, 2011 at 4:58 pm

    spiders are healthy magical wise powerful generous

  411.  #411Daria on March 8, 2011 at 5:05 pm

    and i have your attention daily and that feels good

    im so excited to see you contacting me yet again!

    i feel flattered…and scared

    i feel good and afrai

    i feel important and powerless

    i lvoe me

  412.  #412LonePlum on March 8, 2011 at 5:09 pm

  413.  #413LonePlum on March 8, 2011 at 5:22 pm

    From the soul mate summit:

    One of the most frequently asked questions we receive from soulmate seekers in our community is “how important is chemistry in finding your perfect match”?

    You’ve probably had the experience of going out on a date and not feeling that magic “spark.” Is it a sign that they’re not “the one” or should you pursue the connection anyway?

    Studies show that a stunning 9 times out of 10 your first impression of potential partner is just plain WRONG. Which means, you may be deleting your Soulmate’s messages from your inbox because you don’t connect with their online profile picture or dismissing them after one date because they didn’t look how you had imagined your beloved to be made manifest in physical form.

    During the Summit, in her Soulmate Seminar “Getting in Sync with the Opposite Sex: The Secrets Men and Women Need to Know About Each Other to Create Deep, Lasting Love,” Alison Armstrong shared a profound insight about how chemistry can actually develop in the process of getting to know someone who’s the right person on all other levels – she calls it “The Adam Sandler Effect.”

    Here’s what she shared:

    “So what we encourage is for women to take advantage of something that we call the Adam Sandler effect. I named it the Adam Sandler effect, because when I first saw him in a movie I thought, “Who was the idiot who cast this as a leading man?” And then, about a half hour later I’m thinking, “He’s kind of cute.” And then, about a half hour after that I’m like, “Oh, kiss him, kiss him, not the other guy, just kiss him!”

    You know that way that they grow on us? So, I call it the Adam Sandler effect, the way that a man grows on us and becomes attractive. And so if a woman sorts her men by who is she herself around, who makes her feel beautiful instead of awkward, who makes her feel smart and funny, and who is she naturally being herself with, they’re never going to be men that she has a strong chemistry for, they are all going to be the men that she is not attracted to physically.

    If she looks at who these men are and then goes, “Okay, so who should I give a chance to?” and instead of paying attention to all them she finds unattractive, start paying attention to what she does. Like, “Wow, he really does have a strong nose, that’s actually kind of sexy, his nose.” She can cause the Adam Sandler effect and develop chemistry, which is of course exciting, but at a much lower, safer level that won’t turn her into a complete idiot.

    We call it a “minni-ninni.” The Adam Sandler effect turns you into a “minni-ninni,” but by the time it takes place you’ve already established the foundation of honesty and authenticity that when you get weird, he’ll go, “Why are you being so weird?”

    You can say, “Well, I just got really physically attracted to you.” And he’ll be like, “Oh, cool. Now quit acting so stupid.”

    I got the mp3 if any one wants it


  414.  #414Brenda on March 8, 2011 at 5:25 pm

    8-Minute Tapping Video

    If you’re not sure about this tapping
    thing I think you should watch this
    video about how EFT is being used
    to help a group of people who have
    gone through some seriously
    traumatic events..

    (tapping link removed by request)

    All I can say is…Wow! Absolutely amazing…

  415.  #415Brenda on March 8, 2011 at 5:28 pm


    RE: #407 – Spiders are ugly, scary, unpredictable, and they do away with other bugs.

    Oh, that’s right, I’m not Sweetpea.

  416.  #416luzydel on March 8, 2011 at 5:53 pm

    I know I am being the “nice girl”, I don’t like the Nice girl because she tends to give in too easily. D has been texting me like crazy since he knows I reopened my profiles. I told him I want exclusivity and commitment he says he wants the same, but does he wants that with me? Too soon to tell, so I will keep him in my cycle.

    I am glad I am not chasing him, or pushing him away or being all clingy like i used to with other men. But I gave in too soon to his desire to have me for himself. I am learning that a man gets closer when he feels he is loosing you 🙂

    If he is not willing to give me the relationship I want, then I cannot stop meeting others.

  417.  #417Lucy on March 8, 2011 at 6:00 pm

    That Alison Armstrong excerpt… I actually feel more myself and more free and all those things she mentioned with guys I DO feel strongly attracted to than guys I DON’T feel attracted to. That’s part of what makes them attractive to me, I think. Why would women feel more themselves with men they are not attracted to?

  418.  #418Brenda on March 8, 2011 at 6:03 pm


    RE: #375 – Sounds like you’re describing me.

  419.  #419Brenda on March 8, 2011 at 6:07 pm


    RE: #376

    “If it feels good…keep thinking and doing it.

    If it feels bad…stop thinking and doing it.”

    I put that on my screensaver! I love it!

  420.  #420Senior Lady Vibe on March 8, 2011 at 6:07 pm

    @414: Brenda

    Awww, did you read, and love, “Charlotte’s Web?” 😀


  421.  #421Brenda on March 8, 2011 at 6:11 pm


    RE: #382 – You said, “I wonder if how you feel when you get Kenny’s letters blaming and pressuring, whether that might sometimes be how Ryan feels when he gets some of your texts and e-mails?”

    Oh, no doubt. I’ve long since been aware of that. And concerned about it. Kenny is definitely a mirror, and his treatment helps me understand more how Ryan felt.

    I feel completely free of the urge to contact him now, tho! 🙂 I feel relieved.

  422.  #422Lisi on March 8, 2011 at 6:12 pm

    @223 Boomer —

    You TOTALLY bring up a bunch of great ideas in this post. I’m sure there are a whole lotta responses I haven’t read yet, and I’m interested in where this discussion goes.

    Maybe I shouldn’t post this here, but here’s my take. I try out Rori’s ideas and see if they work. I’m willing to experiment and learn — as long as it is successful.

    If, on the other hand, I were getting feedback from a guy that he would like something a little less “leaned back,” then I might experiment with toning down the Rori method and creating a hybrid that works for me and/or for this person.

    Does that make sense? If he’s missing the lively intellectual debate and senses you’re up to it — give it to him and see if he reacts by being more attracted to you.

    Relationships aren’t “one size fits all” and we can always take these ideas, incorporate them into who we are, and create a mix/mash CC/Rori/Lisi/Boomer version of it.


  423.  #423Brenda on March 8, 2011 at 6:14 pm


    RE: #419 – Yes, i read Charlotte’s Web as a child. I don’t remember much of it.

    No, Kenny didn’t kill anyone. He has been in prison 21 years for sins both real and imagined, mostly imagined. He has an open case, and, even if he didn’t, I wouldn’t discuss it on the internet.

    He is rarely mean like that. But that mean streak in him is one of the reasons I divorced him. 999 times out of 1000, he is far more sweet to me than anyone has ever been except my Mother.

    Our eleven year friendship is here to stay, but each time he says things like that, he is only driving the wedge further between us. He called back a few times tonight and I ignored the calls.

  424.  #424Eternity on March 8, 2011 at 6:15 pm

    LP giggling at the “minni-ninni,” totally guilty of that. Mr LDR was so not physically attractive at first! first time I saw him on the webcam I felt surprised – his voice did not match his body, but he had already grown on me with his beautiful words, and kind heart and continued to do so. I saw past his physicality yet he wasnt physically in front of me, sigh, cant go back there. still pining but oh well, think its just lonliness at this point.

    looking forward but i still keep glancing in the rearview mirror on what went before.

    the days can be very long when you work from home and are having a slow day. been doing that for 2 years, i realised i can go for many many days at a time without being in the physical presence of an adult. that feels scary and lonely when you just need a hug or some sort of human touch. i miss even shaking hands.

    i want to be in front of people again, I joined a dinner club today. dinnerfor6, safety in numbers?? open competition?? idk, guess ill see how other women interact with men , maybe if i lean back noone will talk to me, because the other girls lean forward?? idk,

    trying to meet men and make friends with women – new friends, and positive experiences. age range is late 30s to early 60s, im feeling fearful of meeting a bunch of old coggers, feeling judgemental, i dont want a much older man. omg getting nvs about vi*gra and creaky hips. feels icky and always has but ill be warm and open – who knows they may have brothers or sons or friends.

    ive been feeling old, 45 sheesh how did that happen. feel like im rambling now, needing human contact yet im on the phone all day every day with adults, but its not the same. i feel so much more prepared with these tools but a bit nervy about dinner club – sister said she thinks im a bit socially phobic? that felt bad but maybe she is right – getting triggered about being shrunk again – i dont want a label but i do want to move on

  425.  #425Senior Lady Vibe on March 8, 2011 at 6:23 pm

    @422: Brenda says:
    “…He has an open case, and, even if he didn’t, I wouldn’t discuss it on the internet. …”

    I wouldn’t want you to! My remarks, I’m sure, were a result of incensed indignation on your behalf!… mine too as I’m packing a few extra pounds these days as we all know. I wouldn’t want a guy poking fun at that even if he did call consider himself a friend. “Hey, guy, women don’t like that stuff!”

    re: Charlotte, she was a kind spider.



  426.  #426Alonka on March 8, 2011 at 6:31 pm


    #402: Thank you.

    What I think..

    I think that as per his words for the last 3 years his longest relationship was 2 months. Yes, I did not pay attention. I think that he was growing closer and closer to me.. but – I agreed to this double date dinner with my gfriend where she behaved disrespectfully to herself, her bfriend and to us.

    She got drunk and fell off her chair in a fancy restaurant. She fought with waiters. She was wearing a top that showed off a lot and when she got drunk she was half loosing even that piece of cloths. She was flirting with him even when she could hardly talk. Due to her bfriend four of us still had a nice conversation, we laughed and enjoyed our dinner. Then she started an open fight with her bfriend. My guy got up and made us leave. I was torn apart, but that night we just laughed about it and he was very warm and tender with me. Then he told his friends about it. Then when I had this conversation about him not taking me to his party he said – if I were to introduce my friends to you, they’d be at their best behavior.

    Then he left for his vacation to Canada with his two guy friends.

    I think that he shared something with his friends. I think that they may have told him – this girl is a stranger in this country. This girl has very strange friends. This girl is a single mother with a kid in college. Is that what you want?

    I think that on my side I did not quite get his usual relationship pattern. Yes, he knew that I am extremely ‘proper’, don’t drink and this girl is not my close friend. (Yet I calmly defended her when he talked to me about it). I think he liked it about me that I love and understand children. I think he was already on the verge of his ‘relationship timeline’ – 2 months. He came back from his trip and did not call me. Despite the fact that he made plans for Valentine’s dinner. I, on my side, made a mistake. I waited for 5 days and then I called him.

    I don’t know if what I think is right and it doesn’t matter. Maybe it’s just a matter of luck. I was never the luckiest person;) I know that these are wrong reasons to break up with me. But it is what it is. I can’t change this situation, all I can is to stay on my bridge.

    And if I ever do run into him in the street, I will smile, wave and walk by.

  427.  #427luzydel on March 8, 2011 at 6:32 pm

    A song bout leaning back…Ingrid Michaelson – Maybe

    a song for the men some of us date…King of Anything – Sara Bareilles


  428.  #428Alonka on March 8, 2011 at 6:36 pm


    #406 Thank you:)

  429.  #429Alonka on March 8, 2011 at 6:49 pm


    #396: I hear you.

    Since my personality is ‘on the opposite side’ it sounds like, perhaps if I describe you how I feel towards guys, it may be useful to you:)

    I adore them, like I did with my father when I was small. I am happy just because they are bigger, stronger and I can lean on them. And I do lean on them, I even did with my son when he was 5. Yes, I felt respective of his decisions and I listened to his thoughts. I know it’s odd, but I am telling you the truth. I don’t want to criticize them;) I want to feel their support and enjoy their strength.

  430.  #430Lisi on March 8, 2011 at 6:52 pm

    You know, my mom came over on Sunday.

    I don’t contact my parents much, and am kind of in “lean back” mode with them for a variety of reasons.

    While we were talking she expressed surprise that I am still dating M. She knew him when he was the “artist in residence” at a local place. He’s done a number of really cool art and theater projects here.

    My mom says, “I didn’t think he was the sharpest knife in the drawer.”

    WTF????? This is one of the reasons I didn’t date when I was still attached to having her approval. No man would ever be good enough.

    In the moment, I defended M’s intelligence.

    I didn’t address her behavior to her, because I didn’t get to thinking about it until later. But I’m feeling bothered by it, and I think it was rude and disrespectful to talk that way about the man I’m seeing.

    What do y’all think?


  431.  #431Eternity on March 8, 2011 at 6:56 pm

    365 Brenda

    wow id be freaking livid about that weight comment – i have a real hair trigger about hurtful comments about weight. its extreme. im feeling mad just thinking about what he said to you. ive gone from about 225 down to 160 over several years but it cuts me to the core to this day. i feel shaky and angry just thinking about the comments.

  432.  #432Alonka on March 8, 2011 at 7:07 pm


    My Mom is the best person I know. She is one of the most intelligent and most kind people I know. She is one of those people who do the right thing no matter of what it takes. She loves me more than anything in this world. I am her only child.

    When my first love broke up with me, she said:of course, he was just talking you for a ride and now he left for someone else. maybe he didn’t like your appearance. maybe he thought you were overweight. Maybe he was bored with you.

    I still remember how deeply hurt I was. I believed every word she was saying. Though my weight was about 115 pounds and I’m 5’6 and the rest of it was in the same range of ‘truth’;) And it took me years to realize that she says these things because she is deeply hurt too. She is trying to help. She is trying to tell me something so that I can work on it and change.

  433.  #433Lisi on March 8, 2011 at 7:21 pm

    If you want to laugh till you pee:

    Be prepared!


  434.  #434laughing goddess on March 8, 2011 at 7:24 pm

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