Getting From Where You Are in Your Love Life to Where You Want to Be

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Here’s a sequence of email coaching with a client…I wanted to show it to you because it’s so SUBTLE. I usually like to show you extreme situations, but this one is more like what we, each of us, deal with inthe everyday – where we make assumptions about things, try to figure things out, TRY to move forward, but end up blocking ourselves from what we want.

See if you can find something to identify here with Kathy, and we’ll work more with the details…

“Rori, Well I have seen John a couple of times at work since he’s been back. I practiced leaning back, letting him lead the convo….I said ‘It feels good to see you’ etc. It felt really nice being softer and feminine……we were both smiling alot. He offered for me to go in his office sweep stakes for the world cup, which I did, and now I am on their board in his office – the only girl up there! I also needed the zipper pull on my purse fixing so when I gave him the money for the sweep stakes I asked him if he’d be able to fix my purse, which of course he loved doing! He got all his tools out and was ‘expertly’ lining up the metal ring!

Then I just left it – I did not ask when we’d next see each other……he said – so I’ll give you a call at the weekend and we’ll do something? I said, yes okay that would be nice. He said it again as I was leaving, I said the same……However, he didn’t call that particular weekend. I kind of thought he might not. He’s pretty depressed…..again! he’s come back from his trip in the US pretty ill having had a bad case of Strep throat out there, which then led to a kind of psoriorsis outbreak over his whole body (it looks AWFUL!). He also got cut off from his phone so hadn’t got a cell at the time?!

So anyway the following week I bump into him again, I was cool and infact I’d started to feel quite distanced after the weekend where he didn’t call b/c I actually met a great guy on the Friday night who I have been going out on dates with, and then on the Saturday night, I was with a really good group of male friends who I am seeing more and more often through a good girlfriend and they’d met John once as asked where he was. I told them what was going on and their reaction, saying that I was a ‘quality’ girl and if he can’t step up to the plate, that I should move on was really powerful. Then one of them had what he called a eurika moment and realised I would be perfect for his best friend and business partner and decided to set us up! He did sound amazing and the perfect match for me!

So I met him last Friday and we got on really well and I am seeing him this Thursday – he is the polar opposite of John, he drives things, he’s enthusiastic, very sorted in himself and his head.

But of course, John picked up on this energy from me when I saw him on the Weds and invited me to a BBQ at his this past Saturday.

He then called me Saturday morning to say he was feeling really ill, now thinks he has Mono b/c all his glands are up on his body and his throat was so painful he couldn’t eat, was having hot feverish moments and then chills. We decided it wasn’t best I went as he wouldn’t be at his best but I could tell he was disapointed. Anyhow, an hour or so later he called me to say he was feeling better and so I went.

When I got there he was much better than I thought but he also looked half the man he used to just a few months ago. He looks weaker, smaller, just like he’d let himself go.

But he was still good company. I didn’t act all clingy but I felt frustrated b/c I wanted him to touch me or for us to hug, but b/c of his illness and the fact Mono is so contagious and he felt gross I am sure, it just didn’t happen. I wish however, I’d been able to say that through a feeling message.

Still we talked a bit, I still felt like we were both wanting to fall back into the totally relaxed mode from when we were going out together. But we must have looked relaxed toegtehr b/c some of his friends weren’t even aware we are not officially together anymore!

However I felt such a magnetism between us – like we were both always aware where each other was in the room – even though it was pretty busy….if I happened to glance to see where he was, he always caught my eye. He was always there to fill up my glass of wine when it was getting low, and if I got up to get something and ask another guy he’d check I was alright and what did I need. Also if I was stood talking to someone, and he passed by me, he’d touch my lower back as he passed but it was more than a polite brush it was almost a nudge and I felt myself doing the same thing!!!

I left the BBQ with my friends b/c we had to go on somewhere else. Initially I’d said I had another BBQ to go to b/c I didn’t want to appear to clingy and if he was ill I didn’t want to linger if perhaps he needed to go and have a lie down. He actually had to go to say good bye to a friend who is leaving the country although he didn’t want to – so I left with my friend and we took a couple along with us who wanted to come too, just before he was leaving.

He did look concerned though, and said whole-heartedly – you know you can stay here even though I am going.
But I think that would have been a bit weird. I also felt a little uncomfortable that he was going and hadn’t suggested we went there with him, but my friend said she totally picked up on the vibe that he wanted me to go, but was a bit nervous b/c he thought she was in a mood with him!!! I didn’t get that at all.

Anyway, that was last saturday and I haven’t heard from him since then!!! I want to text him to say that I hope he’s feeling better and that I had a good time but I am trying to wait until I bump into him to say that. I also plan to say through feeling messages, that it felt really good to see him and spend more time catching up. But that I felt frustrated because I felt like I wanted him to touch me and be affectionate – should I say that? I also want to say that I still miss him and care for him. but that I can appreciate he’s not very well and I don’t want to put pressure on him or the relationship right now.

What do you think?

To be honest, I think he’s in a pretty bad way. I think the depression he has from not knowing what he wants out of life, the guilt for not setting up his own business by now, having kids settling down – is all starting to show physically. He even said to me on the phone that he thinks he might be manic depressive. I do believe he’s got depression that’s for sure………but I am finding it so hard to hold back from trying to help him and give him advice. I’ve kind of been there myself which is why I want to tell him how I sorted things out in my head, but I won’t do it.

How do you think I should handle all this? The fact he’s got depression and is ill? I mean it’s a good sign isn’t it that he’s inviting me to things and smiling when he’s with me?

Thanks Rori, if you have time I would truely love to hear your thoughts.

Thanks also for all your e-letters and book etc. It is SUCH a help on so many levels. Kathy x ”

And here’s my first answer:

Kathy – I think you’re doing great – just try to not focus on him…and know that by focusing on him, you’re blocking the other men – which, in a way – is WORKING for you with them…so try to just let everything be the way it is and let’s see what happens…Love, Rori

Then Kathy wrote this:

“Rori, I wish I had read your email a little earlier as I text John and said – “It was good to see you were feeling a it better on Sat pm, thank James for the BBQ too. If you’re ever feeling down you can drop me a line. I hope all this virus clears up soon so you can get back on track. If you fancy lunch this week let me know x ‘

He responded immediately with ‘Cheers Kathy, thanks for coming and for the tablets. Will do’

That’s his usual tone in texts but he often would have called me ‘Babe’ and I just felt ‘Kathy’ was more impersonal and I know what I wrote was so against everything you would advise. My friend Anne actually told me to send it and I thought it would be a good idea if he’s really down but now I feel sooooooo silly. I wish I hadn’t sent it!!!! 🙁

Kathy x”

Me again:

Kathy – this is significant. You are accustomed to being a “helpmate” – and that’s just not attractive. You’ll have to stop doing that cold turkey – it’s likely in your “vibe” – and it goes way against your nature to be ‘selfish” and not help out men. Love, Rori

Kathy again:

“Hi Rori,

I am feeling really upset and I can’t believe I have found myself in this situation again – one you will recognize I know.
But I just found out through a gay friend who works with me, who had access to John on Facebook, that there is this blonde american girl who has her profile shot with John giving her a piggy back. I may be jumping to conclusions but I just can’t help but assume this suggests he met a girl on his US trip and probably had loads of fun with her b/c he was escaping all the stuff that depresses him here.

But it all just makes me feel so $hit, b/c I can see how she probably made him feel more manly and she probably didn’t care much about the relationship initially b/c it was a kind of holiday fling.

I don’t understand why he would have invited me to his BBQ the other week, and also he text me last Friday out of the blue just to say: Are you watching the game?(It was the England game) I was and responded – Yes on the sofa with some chips and on the phone to Amanda! Are you?’He wrote back ‘Yes. how is Amanda and how was your party last Saturday?’

I was on the phone and so I just text back ‘On phone will get back to you in a short while’

Then when I did answering his questions, he never replied! I didn’t ask him any questions though.

I don’t know, I feel SOOOO confused. I really don’t know how to act, what to think.

I have been dating others – two GORGEOUS guys, one who I can see is SOOOO handsome and is so lovely to me, but I just don’t think it’s going anywhere. I can’t quite feel that spark. The other who I did really start to like has suddenly gone quiet which I am really disapointed about, but I think the last time I met him I did all the things you would say I shouldn’t. I talked too much, at the end of the night he tried to properly ki$$ me and I only let it be a lingering ki$$ on the lips, not full making out – just b/c I felt a bit nervous. But then I said ‘Bye have a nice weekend!’ I think that gave off vibes that I was on edge.

We’ve had a few texts since but they were a bit confusing and I wasn’t sure if he was asking me out – I think perhaps he wasn’t sure if I am keen.

I don’t know. To be honest, I am just SO fed up with my focus always being men! I’ve really had enough, and yet I find it so hard not to make them my focus when I meet one and like them. Even though I keep myself busy, I let them generally lead things.

Right now I feel so emotional about it all I just want to say ‘F*CK IT’ to all of them and move abroad and start all over again. I am really angry with myself.

Your emails and advice is SO helpful, but I find I also just second think everything now. I wish I could just win the lottery, do what I liked, travel the world and not give a $hit about men. I am sure you will find that telling as to my issues with men. Maybe it is,but right now I feel such a mix of really upset and low, stupid and insecure, but also angry and like I just want to leave them and it all behind.

My answer:

Kathy – this dating stuff is all fabulous! Can you see how much you’re learning about yourself – and how much more room you have to practice?

You are not “keen” on a man because of your old patterns and gremlins and stuff – and then you’re on “edge” for the same reasons –
If you can practice with all these men – you’ll start to relax and be yourself and SPEAK from your heart – and then EVERYTHING will change!!

As far as John…I know this is hard.

But Peace, forgiveness, compassion – all those things are what you give YOURSELF so that you can have a full, rich love for yourself and your life – and allow others – MEN – to just do what they do around you.

YOU being “on edge” is the only place to focus now! Love that “edgy” place, and it’ll shift like magic…

You are the Queen of your life. The hero of your story – of your whole world, inside and out.

Find THAT place, where you are Queen – and everything else will show up (perhaps not in the package you’re picturing now, but it will show up) and make you HAPPY!

 Love, Rori

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  1.  #1Daria on July 11, 2010 at 1:19 pm

    I am getting everything I want show up, not in the package I expected.


    I would like scripting for when I feel ignored or neglected by men.

    I noticed this with two of my current LI’s.

    with getrite man, he’ll get in the car, say hello, and have a buddy vibe, he’ll start listening to music on his phone, and sip his beer… with his back to me or whatever

    i felt this out many many times, cuz at first i didn’t notice . i feel kinda weird, and I also feel peaceful and good cuz I shift my attention away from him, and I also feel a lil emptiness

    then with Dman yesterday, I had sex with him, and we didn’t kiss or cuddle – we were in the car – I did “make him” (my words hehe) go down on me, I said I want to be gone down on, I actually was not really referring to him, he said he woudl do it, he doesn’t really usualy do that i guess, he was rushing to do it, im like

    slow down, i was tigthenting up , he didnt’ get what was wrong and was like half getting upset, i showed him i just wanted him to touch me gently at first … then i said yes this is so much better

    omg he was Really freakin good at it… i had to practice earlier to explain to him where to touch me and where not to, where my clitoris is and my nani and not to rub in the middle (urethra) to irritate me

    this was great practice cuz i often feel weird talking about sex

    i actualy felt weird after i had said i want him to go down on me and didnt, i just hugged myself, i said i feel weird cuz i asked for it, it doesnt feel good, i held myself till the feeling passed

    then we had sex and i practiced opening up to it feeling good, it started to feel better it was actually pretty cool

    but then after we were just chillin, and i noticed i do that a lot, like sometimes i just want to be like oh ok um lets go do soemjthing else, or I gotta go, or something lol

    so i paid attention to my feelings, and i was actually feeling weird, i was craving being held and kissed…

    so i sat there and told him that – i m feeling weird i feel like being kissed, i feel irritated, my feelings… i focused on opening my heart and not telling him in a dragggy i need something from him way, but in a im into whats going on with me way

    he said ok do you want me to massage you i said yeah that woudl help

    then it felt better but i still wanted to be held and stuff

    so i asked him to hold me

    and he told me some story about how his parents didnt cuddle him and he doesnt know how to show affection, like being apologetic

    the only thing about this is i find myself constantly thinking about his baby mama (who he did not really talk about this time did mention once tho– but did in the past to such an extent that it was a real problem for me) and im like “he would have doen this for his baby mama cuz he’s in love with her” in my head… and etc…

    so anyway im like, um, just sit back and ima lay up on you, so i did … then i felt better. i guess he learned how to hold a girl as well as give head yesterday haha

    yah but i still wanted to kiss i asked him for a kiss i think… actualy i said i want a kiss i think he thought i meant i want him to give me one, he did but it was a quick one, i think we hesitated too

    i definitely felt like i was initiating and stuff with the affection, I felt bad to do this, I want to SCRIPT this somehow, I’m still feeling kinda sad and needy rite now

    it felt cool to assume he Wanted to give to me, and whenever i did do that in my vibe, it turned out he DID actualy want to give to me (head) , he is shy talking about it, he mumbled stuff aobut it several times then wouldnt repeat it, i told him about that, he said oh yeah well what about when you do it lol – im like whoa youre my mirror – i do get difficult to talk about sex stuff so i was glad i made progress

    i also feel good to notice and express my feelings – i want to be even more expressive here

    i dont want to tolerate feeling ignored, i’m glad i made some progress with this

    I like feeling like a man is into me, and being complimented and held and kissed –

    I think with him, some things he did not know (like to slow down on touching me for foreplay) and I had to actually say it doesnt feel good to rush i want to be touched slow

    If i say to him … or to getrite man, I’m feeling like you’re not into me… that is true but also it’s certain elements “compliments, holding, and kissing” that make me feel that way

    Getrite man kisses me, but not a lot of compliments and holding

    Dman compliments me a lil bit, but not a lot of kissing

    and then there’s this Anger I feel … on top of humiliation and embarassment… like.. “they’re not giving me what I want, I”m not good enough to inspire it in them… urgh”

    is there a reason I’m picking men like this – yah… i don’t feel comfortable having sex in a relationship maybe?

    I feel afraid that a guy will want me to commit and I’m not ready to, and then he’ll leave, and I’ll feel not good enuf –

    kinda what happened recently with Security

    Security was like the best of all these men… as in he had all the good qualities of them but none of the faults… he wanted me was into me, holding kissing and complimenting

    Hello Script:

    hmm I feel weird… I don’t like feeling so separate and buddy friendly around sex… and it feels bad to ask for affection… i don’t want to not be held or kissed or loved…

    { and i feel really weird, thinking about your babymama and finding myself comparing myself to her, wondering how you treated her, like if she was getitng all this stuff, and feeling less than, feeling icky and weird}

    and really that was the problem

    with Getrite man, when i met him years ago he did have one gf he really liked, and i was comparing msyelf to her, when after some statements from him now,

    like “all of my gfs say im not affectionate enuf”

    then im now no longer feeling jealous or second class to her – plus he told me he loves me and wants ME… so now i just realize it’s his behavior

    ick i feel ick that I feel this way now, I feel sad, disappointed, weird.. weird…

    I mean sex was cool if it was like some mindblowing incredible sex i would probably not be trippin, like YEA i had super sex

    i am having a hard time expressing what i want rite now or how im feeling

    i feel super needy like i want a man to give me attention and kiss me and be into me

    i feel gross thinking that i had sex without that – tho i have before and was not really trippin because i was doing it for a purpose

    this was not on purpose for me tho, i did not plan on having sex with Dman, but he wanted to and I felt turned on and I did

    mmmm I’m feeling weird

    whoa this did not feel good. I’m not feeling loved and wanted enuf and having sex really brought that up. I don’t want to be having sex just as friends or with a man whos not all the way into me

    I had a similar discussion with Dman a few months ago and he stepped up some

    I feel icky and weird and I want to learn to express myself clearly without worrying what he thinks

    like whoa … i feel like i just played myself… it feels bad to have sex and then feel treated like a buddy… i didn’t expect to feel this way, and now that i do i really don’t like it

    what do you think we should do

  2.  #2Daria on July 11, 2010 at 1:49 pm

    ” Because – if you’re finding yourself thinking
    about him all the time, worrying about how he
    feels all the time, stressing about every woman
    he comes in contact with and speaks to, every
    beautiful, sexy woman he LOOKS at – even on TV –
    then are you REALLY voting for yourself?

    I think what we women do is – we’re sort of
    instinctively voting for the other woman – we
    sort of think she’s the one who should get our
    man (otherwise, why would we be jealous?)

    We’re sort of instinctively voting for the
    FAILURE of our relationship.”

  3.  #3gina on July 11, 2010 at 2:30 pm

    I don’t know what to do about my gremlins. They aren’t interfering in a horrible way, but they are preventing things from feeling as good as they could. And I actually don’t even know if it’s my gremlins or just my personal preference… this morning I woke up with D and I was TIRED cause we stayed up super late, but we had breakfast plans, and I was HUNGRY cause we’re on that diet. He started to try to have sex with me, and I was like “I’m hungry !!!” He seemed to think my grumpiness was cute. He started nibbling my shoulder, and I put up with it for a bit, and then I was like “ugh”, and I tried to bury my head in the covers and accidentally bumped his head with my hand in the process. It seemed to hurt his feelings a little. And I feel a little bad about it and for being a bit childish. We did get up and go to breakfast, which was fun and I really enjoy being with him, talking and laughing etc. But when he dropped me off, kissing, I was wishing his lips weren’t so wet. And when he kissed me on the cheek, I wiped off his kiss as soon as he turned away (cause I hate the way it feels when the air hits the wet kiss spot). This is the same dynamic I had with my dad, but with him, I would actively resist his affection, whereas with D, I usually receive it, but I rarely enjoy it. With some men (usually unavailable ones…okay, always unavailable ones) their attention has felt scrumptious…How can I feel that way with D who is so good to me?? Is it possible? And, even if I can’t, what is the proper way to deal with moments when I feel turned off without disrespecting him, or denying my feelings. I would feel awful if his friend saw me wiping away a kiss, etc…

  4.  #4gina on July 11, 2010 at 2:33 pm

    Okay, but back to the giving thing – when i give affection to him, I can feel tender loving hot feelings engage….

  5.  #5lm on July 11, 2010 at 2:58 pm

    “But Peace, forgiveness, compassion – all those things are what you give YOURSELF so that you can have a full, rich love for yourself and your life – and allow others – MEN – to just do what they do around you.”

    This is sooo hard to do sometimes when you’re stuck in the pits, pining for a man who used to make you feel great…i think it’s the best advice I’ve heard in a long time. I’m trying to turn my attention to myself every time i think of my guy and tell myself how i love myself, how cute and fun and smart i am, how i will always be there for myself, regardless of what’s going on with other people. sounds sort of cheesy but it slowly changes the way you feel about yourself.


  6.  #6Tina on July 11, 2010 at 3:51 pm

    Gina, I;m feeling kinda the same way, he said “be nice” I feel triggered by that comment. This weekend was ok, he arrived looking a bit worried after the phone conversations, with me feeling angry. I feel disgusted, repulsed and any other icky feeling word I can think of or feel. ok so im not feeling so needy and overfunctioning, masculine energy blah blah’s but what do i do now? am I being honest with myself? do I want to have a “forever” after with this guy? I want “it” but with him? do I want it? at all, do I just want to live my life and just take lovers? ooooh that feels better for me, so if thats what I want to do , is to take long term lovers? then, does that mean I have a fear of intimacy? I dont like knowing I have a fear of ANYTHING PERIOD. bbl…

  7.  #7Tina on July 11, 2010 at 4:07 pm

    I feel I have zero tolerance right now, maybe I’ve always felt that way, dunno. How do I have zero tolerance without becoming the ice queen, Ice goddess, yeah, I kinda like that, Ice Goddess. The Goddess of Ice. I feel good and sexy and scary hehe, The Ice Goddess, just dont piss her off.

  8.  #8Daria on July 11, 2010 at 4:20 pm

    Tina when I see you feeling good with Ice Goddess then I feel free to feel good with mine too. thanks.

  9.  #9Tina on July 11, 2010 at 7:57 pm

    I feel sad and worthless, ouch. He said “call me” oh well guess what, I AINT CALLIN . I feel sad and worthless, I feel sad and worthless ,this feels bad, I dont want to feel this way.

  10.  #10Tina on July 11, 2010 at 7:58 pm

    I love my sad and worthless feelings. I want to hug my sad and worthless feelings.

  11.  #11Tina on July 11, 2010 at 8:02 pm

    I love this, this is where Im at. I dont “have to” do anything. OH I have to love myself at all times, trust my feelings, trust myself, IM on my side yup.

  12.  #12dorothea on July 11, 2010 at 9:07 pm

    tina i am right there with you

    the lovely, weird thing is that ice goddess brings out the “gotta have her” in men that makes them act ridiculous. lol. like the more i take care of myself and don’t cater to or pre-guess their “needs,” the more they stumble all over themselves to get your attention.

    unfortunately, this has resulted in men demanding to know if i like them or not…they can’t handle not knowing, and want to step up asap…lol…they get all scrambled…

  13.  #13Simply Shannon on July 11, 2010 at 9:42 pm

    Alright ladies. How the hell do I get to the point where I feel like the hero of my own story? I want to be taken care of. Ugh. I feel weak. I feel lazy.

    I don’t want to DO ANYTHING.

    I feel pissed.

  14.  #14lm on July 11, 2010 at 9:46 pm

    yeah, when i do nothing my guy freaks out on me lately. since when is he the girl? shouldn’t he just be psyched to be with me because i’m great just doing nothing?

    i’m on strike!

  15.  #15lm on July 11, 2010 at 9:51 pm

    also, each time he wants to be the girl, i lose a little bit of attraction for him…ew

  16.  #16Tina on July 11, 2010 at 9:52 pm

    Dorothea, that is exactly what happened on the phone with truckman, he is wanting to know how I feel about him. He called or he messaged me , he was here all weekend but yeah he wants to know how I feel about him, I hate to say this, I just dont know how to feel about him, I feel triggered a LOT. We made crafts together all weekend, I was meditating on the floor, when he threw something at me, well not at me but next to my head, he worked on part of the craft and it was my job to finish wahtever so I felt tired of waiting for him and my back was so I laid in the embryo position, he TOSSED the piece next to my head I said dont do that, he did it again but this time with less noise, I said your disturbing my piece and gave him the LOOK, like mother effer you do it again, ill toss you the eff out of my house. he didnt do it again, but anyway where am I going with this? uh yeah trigger blah.

  17.  #17Tina on July 11, 2010 at 10:14 pm

    Ice Goddess digs in her cold hard heals. Frozen in time, this is how I feel NOW. He “heard” me , I smiled, he asked why i was smiling I said I Feel heard, hehe giddy happy heard. He was waiting for me to get dressed, he said he felt “triggered” about waiting, no you dont lol, I was like yeah, I cut some corners here, I didnt shave my legs. we were on your way to go get some stuff for our crafty weekend together. “NIce” feels phony blah, nice feels like bad to me.

  18.  #18Tina on July 11, 2010 at 10:29 pm

    I want freedom, that is weird to say, feels weird to say, I want my freedom? I feel weird saying I want my freedom.

  19.  #19Tina on July 11, 2010 at 10:33 pm

    I feel controlly stuff coming up, yeah controlly stuff. whos in control? do i need control? I want control, ok so if I want/need control am I feeling insecure? step up on command? step up on command , or you get no treats? lol

  20.  #20Tina on July 11, 2010 at 10:38 pm

    I ran into “waiter boy” I was alone getting coffee, he knows just the way I like it hehe, anyway truckman has a huge hate on for him now , like big time. waiter boy gave me a big smile and wave tonight lol,, I think he was being mischievious hehe, he KNOWS truckman does not like him being “nice’ to me . I dont know why he only refers to him as “the dweeb”

  21.  #21Tina on July 11, 2010 at 10:40 pm

    Truckman has actually changed my coffee order on occasion to piss off waiter boy, no huge change , just the size hehe, Ive told him once or twice im not in the mood for himand waiter boys shit. Waiter boy wont come around when truckman is with me.

  22.  #22dorothea on July 11, 2010 at 10:50 pm

    lol, i had been crushing on this other guy than LI like i was telling you all before, and I leaned way back away from Other Guy because I had leaned forward in an experiment to him and it ended up feeling really bad.

    Well, LI took me to dinner and Other Guy was the restaurant host/manager…

    so weird to have the person who serves you as a customer kinda flirt with you or worse when you’re with your LI. this isnt the first time something like this has happened.

  23.  #23mary on July 11, 2010 at 11:17 pm

    oh, i’m gonna ask again:

    what is LI ???

    love interest?

  24.  #24mary on July 11, 2010 at 11:19 pm

    1, 2, 3 and 4


    i love hearing all that talk about sex.

    it’s been a while.

  25.  #25mary on July 11, 2010 at 11:24 pm

    when i get back home, things are gonna happen!

    it’s gonna be wild.

    i’m storing up energy now.

    i feel tension now because i have to wait. i’m not living it yet! and i’m trying to stay in the present with my family and live with them while i’m with them. i miss them so much when i’m not with them. oh! I MISS THEM SO MUCH! MOST OF THE TIME! and i’m with them now!

    enjoy them, MARY. dating can wait.




    it’s so lovely to be with my family.

    i love my family.

    everyone else can wait.

  26.  #26Tina on July 11, 2010 at 11:31 pm

    I dont get why he feels more competive with waiter boy and karaoke buddy, they are much younger and I dont feel attracted to them, i would have thought he would be more competitive with men in his league, meaning financially and stuff go figure. forget the whys yeah ok forget the whys ,

  27.  #27Tina on July 11, 2010 at 11:43 pm

    I just dont know what I want anymore. tonight I washed the whole floor , I feel like I did something, yah!

  28.  #28Daria on July 12, 2010 at 3:10 am

    dear daria … how was your dating life today?

    well i felt weird today totally craving pot which means other feelings too were cropping up early…

    and then i called this new boy Keith to come over and smoke with me,

    and he said oh you want ME to smoke with you, – but he didnt make a big deal , i like him after he gave me the 3 dollars for gas even tho he didnt have to a few days ago –

    i went on a date with his brother 2 days ago, and his brother didn’t call me yesterday, i feel cool and curious towards 3 dollar man

    he came with his brother i talked to both, i looked them in the eye and smiled, i didnt speak first to the brother, he spoke to me finally, i said hello, it was NOT tense, i think the brother is really into me, he made plans to see me later that day – even tho inititally the whole gettogether was between me and 3 dollar man, he was not part of it lol

    so he kept calling back to follow up on the plans, but he never quite got there, he did say he wasnt gonna make it back in time now

    i get the idea he really LIKES me … he praised me in front of his brother, that felt really good, i felt good


    i feel my pee a lil funny, i had sex yesterday with Dman. i want to have my urinary tract healthy, my nani feels good and relaxed and even more pleasurable cuz this time sex felt nice

    tho emotionally i felt weird and sad too, and i didnt like feeling that way, i feel confused about Dman , it doesnt feel good

    i dont want to be the buddy, i fell into the habit of buddy, not “helpmate” but buddy, daaaamit… i don’t want to be the buddy, it was fun being the buddy at first, but now no, i want to be the object of desire … i feel kinda powerless… im not, blah, this doesnt feel good, i feel confused and i kinda feel bad, i feel icky, i dont want to feel this way, i dont want to have sex when im not feeling like romance and love and passion, i feel guilty saying that now, i feel like i dont want to miss out on the great head you are just learning to give and on our improving feeling sex, and i feel so ANG?RY that i think about your baby mom, i fele second best, i feel angry that i had sex with you when i dont feel like im your number one girl, i feel weird and icky, i feel confused, ]]]

    i love my new tool “im cool” i just love the feeling of being “cool” so powerful, im always cool now – tahts my new tool – i think oh a cool person would do this and always be feeling non-llonely and importatntt– yes even if im feeling anxious, or eating an apricot in the kitchen, or sitting here at the comptuer – im cool..

    im the designated coolest person in the world, when they think of cool they think of me, im just naturally cool as i go about my day

    im so cool

    each me how to douggie teach me teach me how to douggie

  29.  #29Daria on July 12, 2010 at 3:17 am

    i want to get clear on the sex stuff with Dman, i feel humiliated

    oh noo im the buddyz one i feel icky

    i dont want to drag on him for affection, this was happening to other married sirens,

    what do you do? out the window, ? still feeling lonely, blah i dont like it, same with Getrite man, i want to heal this trigger

    im not good enuf to be the number one, youre into your baby mama, i feel like icky, i dont feel good cuz ive heard so much about your babymama, i feel weird and jealous, i feel gross and kinda icky, not kissing and getting close during and after sex

    i feel like a science experiment

    i want to naturally feel it

    Brother is kinda stepping up that time by coming to get me from the house, i felt freaked out now that he had control, i felt very vulnerable and felt kinda like i closed up, ackkk.. i felt afraid to receive he was basically telling me he likes me he likes me he likes me and any kind of relationship i want he wants

    he did say he did not want to get married, i got upset i said i feel upset, i feel kinda turned off , i felt that way for a while, i felt trippin… for a nite and a morning, i feel calm and curious now

    i liked that he picked me up offered me drink and smoke

    i dont want no kissing, i told him on the drive home he said oh you like kissing i ddint knwo im like come on everyone does he said no a lto of people dont

    so hmm

    yes some people dont but blah


    i am assuming that by Dman not cuddling me he’s saying he’s not feeling me as much as his baby mama but all that is totally in my head

    what i do know is i felt kinda icky and sad

  30.  #30Daria on July 12, 2010 at 3:28 am


    i dont want to be in the buddyzone i want to be the object of a man’s desire.

    the end thankks. oh. umm and im gonna . and i feel weird saying that.


    thats it. im gonna lean back now and take care of myself and see wat happens.


    and im doing that anyway

    so i dont have anything to say



  31.  #31Linda on July 12, 2010 at 4:12 am

    I totally indentify with feeling icky. Sometimes I feel it is important to express my needs and wants. I feel a responsibility to myself to communicate clearly how I feel, what i want, what I need. Then I feel icky sometimes about it. Oh what I wouldn’t give to be made the center of his attentions and be the receipient of spontaneous genuine affection. To be held and kissed and desired. I do understand and know too well the feelings of being “friend”, “buddy”…I want to be desired. I feel intollerant of this, in my life. I feel intollerant of being a helpmate. I feel intollerant men who are unwilling to put into words into action and make them real. I call them on their excuses and fear. YES FEAR of opening their heart.

    I desire intimacy. I am struggeling with feeling not good enough to inspire what I want in my life. This, feeling inadequate, not enough, feel very true yet I know it is a lie too. Am I on the edge? but of what giving up or breaking thru.


  32.  #32Brenda on July 12, 2010 at 8:07 am


    RE: #22 – Wow, that would feel uncomfortable! Yikes! I don’t handle that sorta thing well, but I’m getting better at it. How did it go for you? Did either man seem uncomfortable?

    Mary, yes, LI is Love Interest. We all love drama here! Hehehe!

    And speaking of which, I talked with Bill just now about if he felt disrespected when I joked about “Idaho” (“I da ho”) on Friday. I was very pleased to see as soon as I told him I felt weird about how on the edge my joking was, his face split into a huge grin and he waved his hand saying, “No, guys can take that sort of joking! We all knew you were joking around! Believe me, I could have taken it a lot lower! I need to stop myself.”

    So it went back and forth and I felt totally comfortable that he took it as teasing and it was cool. So I’m not banished back to my desk! I’m back in his building today! I’m going to make it a gradual shift by keeping my food at my desk and turning on my computer and lights every day. But if I have my way, gradually I’ll be sitting in his building full time (he invited me to, and Friday was my first day)! I mean, it only makes sense! I was moved to the other building FROM this building when I was doing a filing project last year. I’ve been on this project since Dec. and all the people I work with now sit right here, in Bill’s area! So this is going to be much more fun! I’ve gotten acquainted with them all with one-on-one meetings and I’m very comfortable with this bunch of scientists! I am much happier coming to work now, and the best part is I get to see Bill every day and probably go on coffee breaks with him every day.

    He is so easy to get along with! Happy Bren!

  33.  #33dorothea on July 12, 2010 at 10:00 am

    it wasn’t too weird. my LI is basically unpunkable. and i felt not at all guilty because i make it clear to all guys in my life that i am free to date and do whomever whatever whenever.

    once, this waiter who has always kinda liked me from this restaurant i go to often turned to my LI after taking my order and said “and for you, miss?” he was definitely trying to punk him. I laughed in the waiter’s face….you’re jealous of my date but never bothered to ask me for my number or a date? psshhh

    i was clearly upset that he did it, so he made up for it by buying my LI his beer.

  34.  #34Brenda on July 12, 2010 at 10:44 am

    Whew! Now Brenda’s REALLLLLLLLY happy!

    I just went to lunch with Bill for the first time!!! Up till now, it’s been coffee breaks. Now I’m sitting in his work area, and he just asked me to lunch!

    I had eaten two hot dogs earlier, but that was about 2 hrs ago. So when he asked me to lunch, I thought, hey, I don’t care if I just ate a Thanksgiving Dinner! I’m going to lunch!! 🙂 So I got a Greek salad and ate about half of it.

    I am wondering if my rockstar diva flirtation of about two weeks ago is paying off! Cuz this handsome hunk is stepping up! I feel so comfortable with him!

  35.  #35Brenda on July 12, 2010 at 11:36 am

    Okie-dokie, Siren Lady Goddesses!!

    Here’s a terrific Siren story for you! Someone just emailed me this:

    Young King Arthur was ambushed and imprisoned by the monarch of a neighboring kingdom. The monarch could have killed him but was moved by Arthur’s youth and ideals. So, the monarch offered him his freedom, as long as he could answer a very difficult question. Arthur would have a year to figure out the answer and, if after a year, he still had no answer, he would be put to death.

    The question? What do women really want? Such a question would perplex even the most knowledgeable man, and to young Arthur, it seemed an impossible query. But, since it was better than death, he accepted the monarch’s proposition to have an answer by year’s end.

    He returned to his kingdom and began to poll everyone: the princess, the priests, the wise men, and even the court jester. He spoke with everyone, but no one could give him a satisfactory answer.

    Many people advised him to consult the old witch, for only she would have the answer.

    But the price would be high; as the witch was famous throughout the kingdom for the exorbitant prices she charged.

    The last day of the year arrived and Arthur had no choice but to talk to the witch. She agreed to answer the question, but he would have to agree to her price first.

    The old witch wanted to marry Sir Lancelot, the most noble of the Knights of the Round Table and Arthur’s closest friend!

    Young Arthur was horrified. She was hunchbacked and hideous, had only one tooth, smelled like sewage, made obscene noises, etc. He had never encountered such a repugnant creature in all his life.

    He refused to force his friend to marry her and endure such a terrible burden; but Lancelot, learning of the proposal, spoke with Arthur. He said nothing was too big of a sacrifice compared to Arthur’s life and the preservation of the Round Table.

    Hence, a wedding was proclaimed and the witch answered Arthur’s question thus:

    What a woman really wants, she answered… is to be in charge of her own life.

    Everyone in the kingdom instantly knew that the witch had uttered a great truth and that Arthur’s life would be spared.

    And so it was, the neighboring monarch granted Arthur his freedom and Lancelot and the witch had a wonderful wedding.

    The honeymoon hour approached and Lancelot, steeling himself for a horrific experience, entered the bedroom. But, what a sight awaited him. The most beautiful woman he had ever seen lay before him on the bed. The astounded Lancelot asked what had happened?

    The beauty replied that since he had been so kind to her when she appeared as a witch, she would henceforth, be her horrible deformed self only half the time and the beautiful maiden the other half.

    Which would he prefer? Beautiful during the day… or night?

    Lancelot pondered the predicament. During the day, a beautiful woman to show off to his friends, but at night, in the privacy of his castle, an old witch? Or, would he prefer having a hideous witch during the day, but by night, a beautiful woman for him to enjoy wondrous intimate moments?

    What would YOU do?

    What Lancelot chose is below.

    BUT, make YOUR choice before you scroll down below.


    Noble Lancelot said that he would allow HER to make the choice herself.

    Upon hearing this, she announced that she would be beautiful all the time because he had respected her enough to let her be in charge of her own life.

    Now… what is the moral to this story?

    The moral is…

    If you don’t let a woman have her own way,

    Things are going to get ugly! 🙂

  36.  #36Nikita on July 12, 2010 at 11:59 am

    Lol !

  37.  #37Lucy on July 12, 2010 at 12:40 pm


    I LOVE this! – “I’m trying to turn my attention to myself every time i think of my guy and tell myself how i love myself, how cute and fun and smart i am, how i will always be there for myself…”

    Thank you! Very helpful!

  38.  #38Lucy on July 12, 2010 at 12:50 pm

    Wow, Brenda!!! Yay for Bill! Yay for YOU!!! Good job!!!

  39.  #39Brenda on July 12, 2010 at 1:15 pm

    Big Grin!! Bill is a quality man! I like him a lot!

  40.  #40Brenda on July 12, 2010 at 1:19 pm


    He has short sandy light brown hair and blue eyes. Kind of a wide face like me, well-defined lips, and a beautiful smile! I just love his sense of humor! He doesn’t look like “our” classic man, but he’s very handsome!

  41.  #41lm on July 12, 2010 at 3:53 pm

    thanks lucy! it feels pretty good!

  42.  #42lm on July 12, 2010 at 4:00 pm

    i feel good and open today. i brought myself back to myself, concentrated on work, had fun and smiled with my coworkers. leaned waaaaaay back.

    my guy took me for lunch today and bought me an espresso afterward. he told me he didn’t want to go to the mexican restaurant down the street because i make the best tacos in winnipeg, so ‘why waste money on inferior mexican food?’.

    that’s about right!

  43.  #43Gee on July 12, 2010 at 10:38 pm

    Hi Rori, I had similar experience as Kathy.
    I went to speed dating twice to meet more people. I dress nicely and I have beautiful figure. I uses feeling message and let the conversation led by them. From my age group I had none positive feedback and I had four feedback from the younger age group. Two of the four people send me emails for datings. So I went out with the two who initiating. And I deliberately do not initiate half of the first bill. They said they would call me. But they never have after the first dating. I felt good with one of them and hoping to receive his call. But I have not. It is two weeks now and I do not think this will happen. I do not know why this happen. Rori, what do you think what is wrong with me? Thanks. Gee

  44.  #44Ankita on July 13, 2010 at 12:00 am


    I feel so happy for you. Last night I was wondering, about you and Bill. You mentioned that you’ll talk to him, and I was thinking about that. And as I was coming to this blog, the first question I had in mind was about you..!!

    Lunch… Wow….!! From what you said, he truly sounds a quality man…. Yay…!!!

  45.  #45Ankita on July 13, 2010 at 12:01 am

    I felt miserable last night.

    As I was talking to him, I wanted to say, “I like chivalry,” but instead I said, “I like guys.” Then he repeated it, I felt weird, but couldn’t explain what I wanted to say clearly to him. He sounded so distant all of a sudden, and closed.
    Then again, I said, “I want someone who’d hold me whenever I fall on the ground, who’d make me feel safe and protected.” He said, “Oh! You want security. A bodyguard!”
    I again felt weird, I said, “No. I want a man, who’ll love me till the end, and will spend enough time with me. I can take care of my needs…………..”
    He interrupted me in between, “You sound like a normal girl now. Every normal girl says so.”
    Me, “Let me complete my sentence please. , I can take care of my needs but I want to be taken care of. It feels nice.
    Well, the last sentence won’t be uttered by all.”
    He, “It doesn’t matter.”
    Me, “Mindsets do matter. Or they don’t matter to you at all?”
    He, “They do. But you can’t tell how a person is so soon.”
    Me, “Agreed. But once you do, mindsets do matter. Don’t they?”
    He, “Yeh.”

    I felt uneasy and I tried to put down the phone. Every night he gives me goodnight kiss, yesterday he didn’t. I asked, “Will you just keep the phone down like this? Aren’t you forgetting something?”
    He went silent for 2 minutes, then asked what’s he forgetting. I said, “Just words will do, or will have to show you, what you do?”
    He asked, “Whatever you want.”
    I blew him a kiss. He suddenly seemed alive and opened up, and said that something I said did hurt him. I asked what it was, he said, “Any guy will do?”
    Me, “No. It’s someone specific. But it’s too soon and I feel hesitant to take that someone’s name always (it was him, and he knew it), so I said someone. But someone is really special to me.”

    Then I asked him to convey it to me immediately if something about me hurts him in the future, that way I’ll know it, what did hurt him..!! I said, “I felt really weird that time on the phone with you, we were both so silent, I felt uneasy. I initiated the kiss, it didn’t feel that good.”
    He said, “But I felt great that you initiated, it made me feel good.”

    I don’t like the fact that our meeting is getting postponed day-by-day, just due to his bank problems. He isn’t having money in his hand right now, not even to fund the college fees.
    I told this to him, “ I am fed up of this phone thing. Our world, our imaginary world, where we talk so much, we get lost in each other, we think of future, we think of sex. It’s all on phone damn. I want everything in real.”
    He, “I can understand how you feel. I feel the same way. But this problem is making us delay. I feel bad that just coz of me, this all delay is happening.”

    I feel bad… Ugghhhh…
    I feel miserable…..

  46.  #46Irina Popova on July 13, 2010 at 4:34 am

    Dear Rori id like to share with you my feelings and really hope you will give me right advise.
    I met John 20 years ago on the lake Lucern, he was married then but kind of separated with 2young kids.
    He wanted me to come and stay with him in NY, I lived in Moscow then. He went back to US and disappear after a wile because his wife came back to him. After a few tears my life went normal again.
    After moving to the West in 1992 I went so many times to NY and never had desire to see or contact this men.
    I was in NY again this March , had a few hours free and thought to find about him came to my head. I find from my blackberry number of his company and call him. Normally he is never in the office but that day he just went there for ten min and I reached him. John was pleasantly surprised to hear my voice, we met for an early drink the same day, he sad that his wife finally left him for a younger men and they already divorce for 6years. He briefly told me about his life, we met again next day for lunch before I left NY. After contacting each other almost every day I took an action and went to see him in NY beginning of May, we had most amazing time together. Till now his action is zero!!!
    My next visit was in June and again loving beautiful time we spent together. he introduced me to all his family as a girl friend, I met his sons. He confessed about his love to me. I feel very strong feeling to him. We both think it’s a great love story ever 20 years and still a fire.
    Since I got back to London he just call ones, sometimes he doesn’t text for a few days, I know he is missing me as do I, getting really crazy. he was going to plan our meeting in July and now keep quite about this plans. How we suppose to develop our relationship its long distance first of all. It’s important to see each other or talk at list. Im trying not to push him just waiting what will be next? Its not an easy ….. dear Rori what can you recommend me to do.
    Looking forward to your reply.

  47.  #47Brenda on July 13, 2010 at 8:25 am

    Hi Ankita,

    You’re so sweet! Thank you for thinking of me!

    Sorry to hear you felt weird about last night’s call with Vishal. I’m glad he liked you intiating, because at first I cringed when you said you initiated.

    I hope you meet soon too, and it’s good you told him you wanted that.

  48.  #48Lizzie on July 13, 2010 at 9:21 am

    Well so much for the new guy – I finally called him back today and he said he thought we were getting together – I said that I was sorry to have missed his call and had a crisis situation with a client I need to work on so I worked. I just didn’t feel like doing a feeling message becasue I couldn’t formulate one that sounded natural – maybe next time I could do: I didn’t feel committed as there was lots of air while I need a time and location to make sure it is on my calendar. What do you think? – When what I really wanted to say was that he didn’t step up and make the date happen. Then he made some quip about how I should be able to just download some work off the internet….I left some silence there. I actually feel disrespected. I think I shall just hang up my dancing shoes for a little while.

  49.  #49Brenda on July 13, 2010 at 10:15 am


    I always feel unpleasantly astounded at how easily men will give up a potential new relationship before they even meet. For example, recently I had a CD man about 30 miles away, which is very doable, and he texted me if he could call me. It was 9 pm and I was walking out the door to go swimming.

    So I texted, “It would feel so good to talk with you, but I promised myself I would go swimming tonight. It would feel good to talk with you tomorrow night.”

    He texted back have a good night, but I didn’t respond because I was already gone. He never called. I get sarcastic in my mind like, “Oh, you might have just missed your dream woman but you are going to disqualify her because she had to go swimming???”

    Anyway, I hope before you hang up your dancing shoes you read Rori’s eletter today on not giving up on love.

  50.  #50thirtyseven on July 13, 2010 at 10:52 am

    i have a question about initiating. i understand letting the man lead and pursue…… but doesn’t anyone think that it might feel good or make a man happy and giddy to get a call from the girl he likes, out of the blue and for no reason? don’t they wonder why it is that we are never calling them? just thinking a lot about this lately……

  51.  #51Lizzie on July 13, 2010 at 10:59 am

    Thanks Brenda – I am in a funk today. This guy was really marginal anyway – he is on permanent vacation (as does not work and doesn’t talk about volunteering), his kids are grown and he has grandchildren! I have discovered that that just doesn’t work. I am self employed single solo mom to two teens. The guy who is going to be most attracted to me is someone who is comfortable around teens and someone who works every free moment – like this guy doesn’t even volunteer – and I probed!. A good balance is someone who is smart enough to book in advance so that I can adjust my work schedule. Odd how they might think I am not spontaneous – but I am probably the most spontaneous person I know! As long as I know Friday dinner is yours – you can tell me right up to half an hour before, to tell me what we just might be doing. To me, someone saying “maybe we will get together on Monday” has about as much meaning as “call me sometime and we can get together”. I found myself getting quite stressed over him regardless how pleasant he came across on the phone. As for you, 30 miles is nothing – you are right – he was only window shopping. What makes me happy about this is that I am becoming clearer about what I need and how it feels when it isn’t heading in my direction. This is good.

    Bad allergy day….oh am I ever miserable….

  52.  #52Brenda on July 13, 2010 at 11:11 am


    Up until recently, I was the Queen of Overfunctioning. The principles Rori describes relate most to women like me, who become easily anxious about whether a man will call back, based in poor self-esteem. So I tend to overfunction to be sure he doesn’t forget me. And it messes up the natural healthy dynamics of the relationship. I become the convincer, and he becomes the resister.

    A man makes an emotional connection with a woman when he “hunts” for her. If she is right in his face, he will likely see her as of low value and keep moving to find his prize, a woman with a higher degree of difficulty.

    Rori recommends not initiating with a man until you are confident that you are his and you feel totally comfortable doing so.

    Having said all that, Rori is quick to say there are no hard rules. It is whatever you are comfortable with. Also, there are moments when it’s daring and flirty to operate as a rockstar! At times, you might put on your diva and just reach out to him! Keeps him off balance!

    I am not sure whether or not it was appropriate, but two weeks ago, I made a rockstar move with Bill! I had been leaning back very well and I just felt like shaking things up.

    We were IM’ing at work when he told me he read an article about a French woman who gave a man an island as a gift! I said, “I want to give you an island! I’m French!”

    It went back and forth and I said, “You’re so cute!” and then, “Brenda likes to flirt with Bill!” I am not usually so confident and bold! I was just experimenting! He responded, “U flirt u!”

    I felt really vulnerable and self-conscious next time I saw him, and I was beating myself up. I can’t say if that’s what made the difference or not, but last Friday, he invited me to move my desk over to his building (a 3 minute walk)! We had a fun coffee break that day, and yesterday is the first time in the 7 months I’ve known him that he invited me for lunch!

    So make your move! If that’s what feels right!

  53.  #53Lizzie on July 13, 2010 at 11:11 am

    Thirtyseven – I am going to say it depends on how it feels to you. For some, it feels right for me, others it is a dead disaster. With a guy I saw on and off for 2 years (he eventually became a FB but then I put an end to that in the spring), I called him fairly regulairy and he did the ultimate – called me “needy”. Oh, not good. Another one, I did the same, and it was maybe once ever 2 weeks or so – he actually said “I am the guy right, I am the one who is supposed to call for a date, right?” Oh! I got the message.

    Now I am leaning way back with Family Guy and that seemed to work a bit better. I do send a little email note from time to time but these means 3 since we met in April. One was about 10 days after we met and the message was “what delight can I add to your day?” we had a little back and forth and he liked that one. The next was simply a smile :-); and the last one I did was related to some info on a topic he knew about. Again very short. I am feeling OK with these notes because I feel there are no expectations attached – I am not asking for a date, or expecting a date to be asked as a result. I am not going to do any more with Family Guy – To some degree, my three notes over that time, still would be putting on my boy-leaning-in behaviour. At this stage, he needs to step up and claim me somehow. If he does ask me for another date, it would be #5. It is possible I might ask how he feels about me asking him on a date – but I will really play that one carefully. It really feels wonderful to be asked out and have him look after everything. I just love it! It changes everything – and takes all the stress away.

  54.  #54Brenda on July 13, 2010 at 11:48 am

    Here’s how I saw one author put it: “Hey, don’t take my word for it! Try it! Prove it to yourself!”

    That is the approach I’ve taken with Rori’s tools. I know darn well what I’ve been doing most definitely hasn’t been working. So I try what Rori says, knowing she has far more experience, success, and a 20+ year marriage to show for it!

    And, true to her word, I feel pleasantly surprised, over and over!!!

    I feel more confident dating now than I’ve ever felt! This budding romance with Bill is a totally new experience to me! I never knew enough about the boy-girl dynamics to even get this far!

    With Kenny, my ex, it was different because he was a fully mature man who knew what he wanted and went for it. He truly took all the insecurity out of it for me because he confidently led the relationship. Then he coached me along to a degree. He really taught me like a father in a lot of ways. He is 13 years older than me, and I really appreciate how he had patience with me when I stumbled in the relationship. Now, at his advice, I turn that same patience to boy-men who may not know how to navigate with me.

    I feel really empowered finally knowing what to say, when to say it, and how to say it, after 46 years!

  55.  #55Brenda on July 13, 2010 at 12:48 pm

    This place is quiet without you, Daria! You got a social life now, and we just don’t know what to do without your zaniness! 🙂

  56.  #56Brenda on July 13, 2010 at 3:22 pm

    I just had my Bill fix! I felt disappointed earlier that he hadn’t asked me to lunch or to a break. I was dropping a document off at Sheryl’s desk, which is adjacent to Bill’s, when I saw the two of them talking at Bill’s desk. The three of us talked almost an hour! He was telling us the outcome of his sleep study test, and how much he kicked, snored, and stopped breathing with sleep apnea.

    At first he was referring to his tendency to wake up in his sleep as “partial arousals”. The first time I held back a smile, but the second time I couldn’t hide it, and I turned my head behind the partition.

    He said, “I don’t know what they call it!”

    I said laughingly, “Well, you better come up with some other term! How about ‘apneas’?”

    Then he said he is very active when he sleeps, and his pillows, sheets and blankets are sometimes on the floor when he wakes up in the morning.

    I said, “I could remedy that for you!” But he just looked at me and looked away. It was probably too forward to say to begin with, but I know it wasn’t appropriate at work in front of a coworker. It’s hard to not say leaning forward things when you’re in the moment ((**hanging head guiltily**)).

    Then he showed us an email he sent to another department, which is dragging their heels on getting their part of our document conversion done. In order to see the screen, I got on one knee, but the moment I did it, I thot of what I’d like to do under the desk! And I was soooo wanting to make another wise crack! He was telling how it’s hard to have energy, and I wanted to say, “I know a way you could have energy all day at work!” But I kept my mouth shut.

    I said how his email was diplomatic, and that he’s too diplomatic for his own good. I said they are jerks for not responding to his email (it was sent two weeks ago), that it’s rare to work with someone as easy to get along with as him.

    He said, “Yeah, I’m easy!”

    I wasn’t sure what he meant by that, but just so he knew what I meant, I added, “I mean, all teasing aside, I really enjoy working with you. I have rarely worked with someone so open to communication with such teamwork and cooperation.” He just looked at me. I felt like he was just receiving it. It was from the heart.

    I hope I wasn’t too overboard. I sure enjoy talking with him!

  57.  #57Brenda on July 13, 2010 at 3:40 pm

    I feel vulnerable and insecure after talking with Bill. So many times I still don’t know what to say and what not to say. I guess I was just me, and he is one of the nicest people I’ve ever worked with, even if he wasn’t a handsome hunk.

  58.  #58Brenda on July 13, 2010 at 3:41 pm

    But he IS a handsome hunk, and I would make him such a good wife! I want to be a wife, God. I really do. I am weary of waiting. I am weary of going places alone and having to do everything myself to run my life. It would feel so good to have a partner and to feel taken care of. And to have someone to pour all my love on.

  59.  #59Brenda on July 13, 2010 at 3:51 pm

    It just struck me that it was good for me to tell Bill how much I enjoy him as a coworker. I processed it, and I don’t think it was leaning forward. I think it was opening my heart organically with a feeling message. I was really feeling it when I said it. He is such a good man, and this other department head is treating him with disrespect cuz he’s too nice. It makes me mad. I respect him highly.

  60.  #60Lucy on July 13, 2010 at 4:04 pm

    Brenda, I feel happy that things are going well with Bill. I also feel almost a sense of urgency for you to find some other men to date who can help you not to zero in on Bill too much. Love you! <3

  61.  #61Lucy on July 13, 2010 at 4:08 pm

    Anyone know what this is about? These emails from a black guy — is this like Jamaican speak or what? ….

    “how u doing ma ur beautiful ma drop me a line ma”

    “you are beautiful ma for ur age wow”

    “your welcome ma do u have a cell ma”

    Lol. What do you think???

  62.  #62nina on July 13, 2010 at 4:18 pm

    I feel quite panicky. Thirty years of marriage, five children and grandchildren and I feel he is ready to move on. Emotionaly, he has been out of this marriage for many years now, but I kept living in denial. I did all the things that pushed him away. For years, I felt insecure, needy, worthless but never addressed these problems, while he became more arrogant, career oriented and distant. He spends a lot of time overseas with his job, and I can feel now that he can’t wait to go when he comes home accassionaly. It feels like one day he will not come back. Because we are in a long distance relationship most of the time, I feel that we have even less of a chance to work this out.
    I am obsessing about my marriage, and feel depressed most of the time. I just don’t know what to do and where to start helping my self.
    Rori, your e-mail on voting for my self gave me a little bit of hope and direction. Thank you from the bottom of my heart, you will never know how many people you touch.
    I will try and hold onto your advice, but I probably need a major makeover to pull myself out of this.

  63.  #63Siena on July 13, 2010 at 4:35 pm

    LOL Lucy! No comment. 🙂

  64.  #64Siena on July 13, 2010 at 5:31 pm

    Brenda has a crush!

    Okay, seriously though girl – I am your mirror here to tell you that you ARE leaning forward, even if it’s really subtle. You have very clearly demonstrated to Bill that you are interested, now you can lean WAYYYY back and see if he does anything.

    If you go through your posts about him, and (since you’re a writer) find all of the action verbs that you use when you describe your interaction, hopefully you will see what you mean.

    …and opening your heart is good, but it’s only Sirenlike if you open it in response to him showing up at your heart’s door and knocking. After he’s done the work to get there (like for instance, when he asked you out to lunch), THEN you can open your heart and have it have the Siren effect. It doesn’t work if you GIVE him something (like a compliment) when he hasn’t given you anything first. He’ll be flattered, for sure. But not crazy in love with you.

    How would it feel to not initiate ANYTHING with Bill for the rest of the week? Have him hunt you down, and even hide a little bit so that he has to come looking for you? (for ex, don’t sit on IM). And only when he finds you does he get the reward of a moment with you and your open heart. (a-hem, crude joke could follow if I weren’t such a lady hehe LOL)

    Then only respond to him, even if it feels awkward? Don’t try to be funny or clever or smart, just try to respond to everything he says with a feeling message?

    It would be difficult, for sure. But what a great “Siren muscle building tool”! And it will get you light years ahead of what being funny, clever or smart with him would.

    Love you Bren!

    (Siena is now removing her boy hat)

  65.  #65Siena on July 13, 2010 at 5:32 pm

    oh! And I just reread Rori’s 5/6/10 email about being a magnet… if you still have it, check it out!

  66.  #66Siena on July 13, 2010 at 5:39 pm

    oh, and BTW, I’m totally taking my own advice. I got off IM and will be silencing my phone until I get home from an appt at 8:30. I’ve been thinking of #1CD all day (leaning forward in my thoughts), and OVERthinking everything today surrounding dating him.

    So I’m shutting off all that leaning forward vibe too and just focusing on myself and my stuff. My gift to him today is that he gets to play the hunter. My gift to myself is a 1.5 hour massage. Yay!

  67.  #67lm on July 13, 2010 at 5:41 pm


    i agree with siena about the leaning waaaay back.

    a little mystery at the office can go a long way. sometimes when i am making a personal call or meditating at lunch, i’ll close my office door. my guy will notice and send me cute emails saying things like ‘what are you doing behind that closed door…?’ i am moving to another, more spacious office soon, on the other side of our building. i am happy about this because i will have my own space, be able to better focus on me and my work and now he really has to COME FIND ME if he wants to see me.

  68.  #68Jeannette on July 13, 2010 at 6:11 pm

    Brenda, I think it’s sort of cute that you flirt with Bill….now for a day or two lean back because that is going to add to the mystery. See what he comes up with.

  69.  #69Simply Shannon on July 13, 2010 at 6:11 pm

    Brenda, I know you’re getting lots of advice and I think you are doing great. The transformation in you feels great to watch. The one thing that is popping up for me (because I do this too) is… I feel a little weird about the sexual vibe I hear you sending out with Bill. It’s reminding me of that cop conversation where you were saying you didn’t want to lead with sex. This conversation with Bill is leaning towards sexual. I make sexual innuendo a lot too (and then complain about it later that the guy only wanted sex). It’s my old nasty voice that says men need sex to want me.

    And like Siena suggested, I would want him to lean forward now. I think he’s doing that by asking you to lunch. I truly believe he will fill the space you leave available by leaning back.

    Can’t wait to read more! Shannon

  70.  #70Jeannette on July 13, 2010 at 6:19 pm

    If anyone could give me some advice in the blog, “Healing your heart and love with questions..” I asked about my boyfriend and his health issues in #92. I really would love to hear from you!!

  71.  #71gina on July 13, 2010 at 6:49 pm

    I watched the jake/vienna interview again (and again) I’m still so fascinated. At first I didn’t understand Rori’s take, but now I think I do…Jake never planned to marry her (he seems super gay to me – “there’s more to a relationship than sex and intimacy” pshaw!). ABC was willing to get as much mileage as possible out of Jake -in terms of publicity, and they may have even helped out with his acting career – cause he was playing their game very very well. He did a good job of being “the Bachelor” – he was totally taking on the “role”. They set up the interview to make him the good guy – he got to tell his side first, and both he and Chris did everything they could to put Vienna on the defensive, while they delicately balanced their own image. But when Jake lost his temper at the end, you could see he lost favor in Chris’ eyes, and I bet ABC is completely done with that guy. His 15 minutes are up. And I see what Rori means about Vienna – they’ll appease her by putting her on Dancing with the Stars and then send her on her way. They were totally effing with her the whole interview!! And then, the last segment is awesome cause I could see Chris’ disgust that Jake lost his cool, and I saw Jake regretting opening his ugly mouth. Oooh it’s so satisfyingly entertaining. But I do feel bad for Vienna – I imagine i would feel myself going crazy if I had powerful people trying to control me like that. But it gave me perspective on my experience with Dove, and I feel even more love, compassion and forgiveness for myself for resisting playing the game in the end…

  72.  #72Jennifer on July 13, 2010 at 7:41 pm

    I’m all covered in spider bites. Rotten little bastards. The doc gave me prednisone and I think I’m in hormonal overdrive.
    I went to judo..and had this irrational urge to strip nekkid.
    Naked is the state of being without clothes…nekkid means you mean to do something about it.
    My friend says “just do him and get it over with”
    Thank god he’s all concerned about my tiny little feelings…cause I can’t seem to be rational enough to get there.
    What do the other sirens do, when they have this hormonal rush deal? Anybody?
    little help?

  73.  #73Jennifer on July 13, 2010 at 7:45 pm

    um…cause usually I just do it. But that doesn’t seem to be an option here.

  74.  #74Jilly on July 13, 2010 at 9:15 pm

    Jennifer…I’m right there with you chica!!! I have a pretty bad case of poison ivy that became a 2nd degree infection and I’m on heavy duty prednisone too and antibiotics and antihistamines…I’m all drugged up…and HORMONAL!

    …and I have no advice and I feel all leany over and overfunctiony in my thoughts…I feel like I need to pull me back to me…

  75.  #75Alicia on July 13, 2010 at 9:15 pm


    I agree with your post earlier about the passion thing.. sometimes the hotter the guy and stronger he comes on the more afraid I feel. Like he doesn’t even know me..

    That book had about 10 chapters for what women deal with and 10 for men on the challenges of starting over.. I’ll post some.. It was great learning about the challenges men have too..

    (I’ll be back after these :tv” messages.. haha there is some shows I have to catch.. 🙂

  76.  #76Daria on July 14, 2010 at 2:10 am

    Lucy – that is not jamaican, its just regular urban talk… sounds great to me… i like it when guys call me ma

  77.  #77Daria on July 14, 2010 at 2:18 am

    Lucy – tell him he aint messin wit your Douggie

  78.  #78Daria on July 14, 2010 at 2:28 am

    nobody messin wit my douggie.

    i got two new cd’s i can go chill at their house.. but this one guy was playing around and he sat in my lap and farted and i feel triggered by that and i feel gross and icky and i got mad and eventually left without saying anything

  79.  #79Brenda on July 14, 2010 at 6:26 am

    I really, really, really appreciate everyone’s feedback about my budding romance with Bill! I really need that stuff!

    I went home and slept, which is why I haven’t been online. I mean slept from the time I got home from work until 5:30 am. But on the way home, you would not believe how strong my urge was to text Bill!

    All my insecurities came to the surface, and all my old behavior with Ryan, scared to death I said the wrong thing. I mean, I see that I DID say the wrong thing. But in the past, I would be utterly embarrassed after I talked with a man, because I had almost no guidelines how to present myself.

    Last night, each time I pulled Bill’s name up on my phone, I reminded myself that we have never contacted each other outside of work. So it would be undoubtedly inappropriate, and he should initiate that. Not me with insecurities. He is going to be out of the office today.

    So instead I faced the insecurity, fear, and urge to contact, and I made some progress towards being content to just let it lie until the next time I see him. My challenge is I have 21 years worth of experience with writing in relationships but very, very little live, in person experience. So I feel necked, as Jennifer would say, when I sit before him.

    One friend pointed out the significance of him saying, “I’m easy”. He said it with a pause and direct eye contact, so it suddenly struck me he was flirting back. Then I began to wonder if he intentionally kept talking about sleep apnea to get on the whole subject of bed, etc. So I am convinced now the feeling is mutual.

    I also agree I need to lean back totally. Him moving me over to his building from my building was a major stepping up on his part. And now he’s got me right down the aisle where he can casually ask me anytime to go with him for a break or lunch, or to just start talking. So I don’t think IM is going to be part of our relationship anymore. And I feel really good about that.

    And I did stay leaned back all day yesterday until 5 pm. He didn’t ask me to break, and I didn’t plunge in. I saw him once in the hall and simply said hello when he said hello. I was legitimately dropping off a document at Sheryl’s desk when I saw them, and it was only normal polite conversation to follow up on how his sleep apnea appointment went from the day before.

    It’s the conversation where I’m leaning forward. And so I will be really on top of myself next time we talk, while I focus on physically leaning back. I also feel concerned about all my sexual innuendos. I feel embarrassed to say, but I know it’s the residual of all my past sexual encounters, when I WAS just going for sex. And, no, I DON’T want just that anymore. I also have had a high libido lately, the last few days.

    So I will most definitely take your advice to heart, and I appreciate you putting on your boy hats to guide me.

  80.  #80Simply Shannon on July 14, 2010 at 6:29 am

    Jennifer: I am totally in that state of mind. I feel frustrated as hell. It’s taken me a few days to get past it. I’m just pushing through. For me personally, if I do it, I know I’ll feel bad afterward. (No marriage = no sex.) And usually the feeling I really want is comfort. The sex for me is one of the ways that I can get some relief from thinking all the time. Hmmm. Just writing that feels like the truth. I want a break from my brain. It’s coming through as a desire for sex.

    Talking to a friend last night and voiced a reality for me. Once I was out of my marriage I wanted sex all the time, but inside my marriage, I wanted nothing to do with him. This solidifies for me that the sex is not just for sex (sometimes that’s okay). Mostly, the sex is for comfort, security, and love. If I don’t feel those things, I don’t want sex. It’s the ultimate wet blanket for my hormones.

  81.  #81Brenda on July 14, 2010 at 6:36 am


    As for your concern that I’m zeroing in on Bill, no need for concern. I just happened to be talking about him in this section. Yes, I have a crush on him, but I am truly feeling the Siren Shift as I am getting more men in my rotation!

    Even tho Kenny is my exhusband and Ryan is not currently seeing me, I consider them part of my rotation, because Kenny is still in love with me and wants me back, and because I am still in love with Ryan and want him back! 🙂

    Beyond that, I had two new men contact me on POF yesterday, and I’ve been emailing a man I’ll call Greek from Match for the past almost 2 weeks. And Greek is most definitely getting diva-type treatment in that at this point, I could take him or leave him. He’s 52, and so far his emails have been warm and kind, but boring. Ut-oh, here’s the nice guy syndrome again!

    He’s been drilling me with questions, and I really don’t like that dating style. Yet I am letting him get away with it (so far), because he is long distance. Otherwise I’d be giving feeling messages in the direction of meeting. But I can understand him wanting to get a feel for me (no, not THAT kind of feel, you pervert!) before he drives 5-6 hours to meet me. How do you all feel about that?

    Also, he answered his own questions for me. One of the things he values in a relationship is shared expenses. I am not used to negotiating that. Also, I feel it’s too early in the “relationship” to even be discussing that. So I just left it alone when I responded to his questions. How do you feel about that? I feel really uncomfortable talking about financial stuff between a man and me.

  82.  #82Brenda on July 14, 2010 at 6:39 am


    I feel much the same way you do about sex. I would add to that the most important purpose for sex for me is a very deep, very intimate expression of very deep, intimate love!!

    My issue is my horns hold up my halo!

    So I am dealing with that, too, now, after quite a long period, almost a year, of feeling that under control. I think it’s cuz I’m coming out of depression after mourning the loss of the beautiful romance I had with Ryan.

  83.  #83Simply Shannon on July 14, 2010 at 7:10 am

    I’m having issues with Mr. Fab Kisser still. Ugh. At this point, I am just over this whole thing. I don’t want to deal with it. I don’t want to explain what I need from him. I went looking for a post about outgirl’ing him because that’s what’s happening here. He’s telling me how he feels and that he wants ME to call him because he feels super awkward picking up the phone! Argh!! Stop being the girl!!

    Anyhoo… This is Rori’s post about it.

    What do I say in response to his girly email? Nothing I’m thinking right now is “nice”. I know I don’t need to be nice but I feel compassion for him too. (which feels kind of condescending). I don’t know. I feel frustrated. This is what I’ve written so far.

    I feel frustrated. I don’t want to do anything. When I’m feeling bad/sad, I want someone to take care of me, to comfort me. Not the other way around.

    – — — – —

    I had written him previously that I was feeling bad and mad (at myself and him). I want to accept him for who he is and where he’s at. He’s a great man but I don’t think he’s the man for me.

    Any ideas Sirens?

  84.  #84Brenda on July 14, 2010 at 7:34 am


    The man with the city slang reminds me of the movie, “Bringing Down the House”, where Howie says to Charlene, “The cool points are out the window, and I’m all twisted up in the game.”

    She says, “He said that?? Wow, that’s the nices thing anyone ever said to me.”

    Steve Martin looks at her like she’s nuts! 🙂

    Just tell him, “Yo, dude, you from da west side, I from da eas side. Dis ain’t gonna work, fool!”

  85.  #85Brenda on July 14, 2010 at 7:37 am


    How about this:

    I feel frustrated. I don’t want to do anything. When I’m feeling bad/sad, it would feel so good for a man to take care of me, to comfort me. What do you think?

    I think it would be a more positive way to word it, cuz its overall tone is pretty negative, even still. Not sure xactly what you’re feeling tho, to have any suggestions outside of what you said.

    Are you trying to revive a dead horse?

  86.  #86lm on July 14, 2010 at 8:47 am


    My guy at work is getting girly too…last night he texted me at 930, when i was already reading in bed, and asked me why I hadn’t called him all day. I hadn’t seen him for 2 days, we had no plans and I did not say i would call him at any point. Ugh.

    Then he sort of asked me to hang out, but because i was already in bed i told him good night. THEN he finally booked me for a date tonight.

    It’s…frustrating and and i feel uninspired. but good that i didn’t accept the last minute date.

  87.  #87lm on July 14, 2010 at 8:51 am


    Thanks for the link to the older outgirling post.

    I remember reading it way back when i was head-over-heels in love and totally off centre and feeling so depressed because it seemed impossible for me to ever outgirl my man. i was sooo addicted to him. things have really changed!!!!

  88.  #88Jennifer on July 14, 2010 at 9:09 am

    hey guys..thanks for the support. The spider bites are going away so I’m stopping the prednisone. I want my self control back.
    I’ve thought about everyone’s points.
    It may be about shutting my brain off a little..but mostly it just feels like lust.
    Like totally random animal lust.
    Down on the ground nasty, “what was your name again so I know who’s name to scream?” lust.
    It was focused on judo instructor cause he’s the one I feel most comfortable with but really I woulda done the other guy in the class with very little provication.
    So um yah… more prednisone.
    I WAS born red headed. LOL!

  89.  #89dorothea on July 14, 2010 at 9:13 am

    how long were you on prednisone?

    i had a sudden bout of allergy-induced asthma and felt emotional at times…which sucked cuz when i cry i can’t BREATHE!

    sob sob CHOKE CHOKE. f*ck

    anyway, if it was less than 7 days you are gonna be just fine fine fine:)

  90.  #90Jennifer on July 14, 2010 at 9:15 am

    hey dorthea…just two doses…thank GOD!
    I woulda done something extreme if it was any more.
    The spider bites are going away…the blisters are gone so I don’t see the need anymore.

  91.  #91dorothea on July 14, 2010 at 9:24 am

    yay i feel happy you are getting better.

  92.  #92dorothea on July 14, 2010 at 9:32 am

    so…what do u sirens think about this? there is a cool event on tuesday and I want LI to take me…or someone…
    do i go by myself because i shouldn’t lean forward and tell him i want to go? do i tell him i want him to take me?

    arghhghghghhgh help

  93.  #93Brenda on July 14, 2010 at 9:37 am


    I think it would be leaning forward to invite him.


    Spider bites! Scary! I got a kick out of this: “Down on the ground nasty, “what was your name again so I know who’s name to scream?” lust.” LOL!

    That’s how I felt the last two nights…I wonder if Bill’s been spiking my drinks with predinisone?! He IS a scientist at a pharma company! LOL!

    Nah, it was just straight passion juice flowing thru my veins!

  94.  #94dorothea on July 14, 2010 at 9:39 am

    i don’t want to invite him..i want to tell him to take me lolol

  95.  #95dorothea on July 14, 2010 at 10:00 am

    ugh this feels lame he signed on and isn’t carrying the conversation he started. i’m gonna get off the computer. see u ladies later

  96.  #96Lucy on July 14, 2010 at 10:06 am

    Thanks, Daria!! I thought maybe you would know what he was talking about. 🙂 What does “ma” mean? To me, it’s what I used to call my mother! Lol!

    And what does “he aint messin wit your Douggie” mean???


  97.  #97Brenda on July 14, 2010 at 10:12 am


    We’re going to hafta git you edubakated!

    My guess is “ma” is a cross between “man” and “ma’am”…is that accurate, Daria?

    He ain’t messin wit your Douggie I’m sure is your Yoni.

    Kenny taught me a lot of street slang and gangsta talk, but this stuff was new to me.

  98.  #98Laughing goddess on July 14, 2010 at 10:12 am

    I feel so curious about Roris take on the Jake/Vienna scenario. Does anyone know where she addresses it?

  99.  #99Lucy on July 14, 2010 at 10:27 am

    Shannon, I’m wondering if part of your frustration is that you are skirting around the truth with him — you are trying to communicate to him what you need from him and what is not working, but maybe the REAL truth is that it doesn’t MATTER to you anymore because, as you said, you think he’s not the right man for you — and maybe THAT is what really needs to be communicated — and all the other stuff is smokescreen — which would be frustrating for HIM as well — if you’re saying to him, “I need ….” and then he’s struggling to make it work — when in your heart you’re feeling “I’m done” — and he doesn’t know that because he’s listening to what you are SAYING….

    I totally get the feeling compassion for him — but it may be more compassionate to tell him he’s not the one and let him go . . .??

    Those are just the thoughts I had, and I could be totally and completely off track. 🙂 What do you think?


  100.  #100Siena on July 14, 2010 at 10:47 am

    LG, it was on a somewhat recent (within the last month) thread.

    But I seem to remember that Rori thinks it was all a giant setup anyway. Jake chose Viena so as not to hurt the other 2 girls, but it was all for publicity.

    pshaw… he chose the woman who could have never made him happy – whether that was because he was just looking for publicity or because he’s afraid of commitment who knows.

  101.  #101Siena on July 14, 2010 at 10:48 am

    Shannon, I think Lucy’s on to something. Maybe it keeps coming back up because you’re not being 100% honest – either with him or yourself?

    That old saying, “the truth will set you free” is very very true. I have a feeling that once the truth is spoken, you will feel free, regardless of what that truth is.

    (and I’m not judging you at all, I just think Lucy hit the nail on the head)

  102.  #102Simply Shannon on July 14, 2010 at 10:53 am

    Lucy, you’re the second person to tell me it might be more compassionate to let him go. Me thinks that’s the answer. I definitely am skirting the issue. And fear of letting a good man go is the primary reason. I do trust God to put the right man in my path. It’s just weird to “break up” with someone. I now understand why it’s so hard for men to break up with me (which is why they are choosing to cheat because they know that’s a deal breaker). This is the message I’m being shown. I get it finally, so hopefully this will be the LAST time I have to be sent this messenger.

    I don’t want to hurt him and I don’t know how to tell him goodbye without doing that. I know I’m hurting him/us by not being fully honest. The truth is I don’t want to break up with him even though I don’t think he’s the one. If I can be a rockstar, I’d choose to have dates with him with the understanding that it’s just dates and not me looking for long term. Although maybe that’s a bit of a stretch because I’d always wonder and I’d always be worried about his feelings since I know he loves me in a forever kind of way.

    Argh! Words, words, words, thoughts, thoughts, thoughts. Stop. I’d like off this ride please.

  103.  #103Brenda on July 14, 2010 at 10:55 am

    LG, here is the string with Rori’s Bachelor comments:

  104.  #104Siena on July 14, 2010 at 10:55 am

    Dorothea, if you want to go, then I guess you have to go by yourself because you really can’t ask him to take you. Or I guess you could ask him to take you (experimenting) and use feeling messages, and then take ‘no’ for an answer if he tells you no.

    That happened to me recently. I really wanted to go to an event, and so I showed him the flyer and he told me he would take me. Well, it turned out his schedule just wouldn’t permit it, so he basically told me he couldn’t do it and we’d have to go another time.

    Ugh, it feels awful, but it’s part of letting him lead and me taking no for an answer. Of course I told him I felt disappointed. But I also learned the lesson that I was the one who suggested it anyway… if it had all been his idea, he would have been fired up to take me, and there wouldn’t have been any disappointed feelings on my end. Lesson learned.

    I feel okay not feeling good, by the way. What feels good is being able to tell someone that I feel bad things (like sadness, disappointment, etc) and not have it be a deal breaker.

    It’s almost like these disappointing things happen on purpose so that I can continue to feel the whole range of emotions and be strong and brave enough to communicate them.

  105.  #105Brenda on July 14, 2010 at 10:57 am


    Sorry you are going thru such turmoil over him. You will find the right words, I’m sure, because you are good with words. Just let your gentle, beautiful heart shine through. If he REALLY wants you, maybe he’ll chase after God to become the spiritual leader you are really looking for, etc.

  106.  #106Siena on July 14, 2010 at 10:59 am

    Shannon, Rori said something once about cheating that totally resonated with me.

    She said that men might cheat physically, but we cheat by not sharing all of ourselves with them… the full range of our emotions, our love for ourselves, our full self-esteem and our sense of value for ourselves.

    She said, “What are you cheating him out of? You of course!” (that’s totally stuck with me)

    Methinks that if you (like I) have encountered cheaters in the past, it’s a great opportunity to not cheat him out of the things that he needs from you.

    Remember, you are the air that he needs to breathe.

    I vote for you to share your complete truth with him!

  107.  #107Jennifer on July 14, 2010 at 11:03 am

    On eharmony…there’s this super hawt med student…OMFG!
    He’s all swarthy and toned and tanned and yummy.
    I was thinking about sending him the opening messages and then i was like …………um, no I don’t think I’ll be able to handle it when he doesnt’ respond.
    Super trigger.
    Like if. Like if I still feel this way about me. Like if this is stopping me. Like if I don’t have the courage for this.

  108.  #108Jennifer on July 14, 2010 at 11:05 am

    Why is my comment awaiting moderation? Cause I put an F in my OMG?
    Here it is again..without the F
    Ah, no….cause I used the wrong email…here it is AGAIN!!

    On eharmony…there’s this super hawt med student…OMG!
    He’s all swarthy and toned and tanned and yummy.
    I was thinking about sending him the opening messages and then i was like …………um, no I don’t think I’ll be able to handle it when he doesnt’ respond.
    Super trigger.
    Like if. Like if I still feel this way about me. Like if this is stopping me. Like if I don’t have the courage for this.

  109.  #109Lucy on July 14, 2010 at 11:07 am

    Shannon, I feel happy that you are learning so much through your interactions with this guy!

    How about telling him what you wrote in the second paragraph (#100) and then asking him, “What do you think?”

  110.  #110Daria on July 14, 2010 at 12:00 pm


    Ma= mama, which is an endearing word (my favorite) like baby, babe, etc

    you aint messin wit my douggie .. is out of a recent song about “teach me how to douggie” which is a dance. saying you aint messin wit my douggie means “you can’t ‘see’ me” or saying my douggie is better than your douggie. there is no point in why to say that to him except for a joke.

  111.  #111Lucy on July 14, 2010 at 12:08 pm

    Thanks, Daria. It feels sweet to read his words now. 🙂

    A couple days ago you posted part of something Rori wrote about subconsciously voting for the other girl to get the man you like . . . or something like that. Where was that from? I would like to read the whole thing if you have it. Thanks!

  112.  #112Brenda on July 14, 2010 at 12:40 pm

    Thanks, Daria!

  113.  #113Tina on July 14, 2010 at 12:44 pm

    I remember that post about subconsciously voting for the other girl to get your man, I have been consciously voting for myself , I dont know if he is a practice guy or the real thing , but im voting for me anyway.

  114.  #114Brenda on July 14, 2010 at 12:57 pm

    I’m voting for sexxx.

  115.  #115Tina on July 14, 2010 at 1:19 pm

    I *think thats what I do when Im busy watching what he does around other women, ive noticed it with other women in public places, and its rare to see a woman voting for herself. It’s not attractive and I can see why/how a man can pick up on that vibe. Truckman picks up on all my vibes grrrrrrrr and he is accurate or somewhat close when I go deep into my feelings or when he responds appropriately, um i mean like a man , a masculine energy man.

    SS, I noticed to when truckman goes into feminine energy, I feel turned off, I have to “catch” myself, I either ignore him or do something else , my feelings of resistance usually is a sign or trigger something is not right with me or my feelings. He’s become um more gentle, in his approaches , not the usual bulldozing everyone and everything in his way to get to me. He said to me the other night, is it all right if you are the object of all my sexual desires, you understand that right Tina? we didnt do any “sexual things” that night I was only in his area for a few hours well a lot could be done in a few hours , I just wasnt feeling in the mood. He does trigger the hell of out me though…

    I feel liberated to say, he may not be my forever after 🙂 I instinctly want to critisize HIM but I dont, I feel happy, he may not be my forever after.

    Dorothea, I did the same thing about wanting to go somewhere to an event and he couldnt make it. next time im going alone. Im doing something ALONE on monday night, I dont want to make a decision about whether or not he can make it, im just going to go anyway, without telling him about it, men wil be there 🙂

  116.  #116dorothea on July 14, 2010 at 2:34 pm

    Thanks ladies, I decided to take myself. ..and who knows, he already knows that this event is every tuesday and that i am very interested, so maybe he will end up taking me on his own one day in the future. or i will flirt with all the nice men there on my own. sounds great either way:D
    Actually going alone is sounding better and better. weeeee!

  117.  #117Lucy on July 14, 2010 at 2:39 pm

    I feel frustrated. This guy contacted me on match a few days ago with a brief comment about our common annual vacation destination. I felt surprised and happy to hear from someone who had similar vacation experiences and lifetime memories of a special place. We have been exchanging fairly long emails every day, and it feels nice — very easy and natural — we have a lot in common. BUT, he lives four hours away (yes, you guessed it — where TN man now lives). Four hours should be doable — and as you all know, the local guys do not seem to be right for me — but I am feeling a growing frustration with the things he is saying about that issue. Here are some excerpts (from within longer emails, across a few days — I’ve included everything we both said on the topic):

    Him: I meant to ask you where L is? I hope not too far from P but I have a feeling that it is….

    Me: Yes, I live pretty far from P — 4 hours driving, 5 by train.

    Him: I feel like we have a kindred spirit and I knew you would end up living on the other end of the state…I said in my profile that I did not want an e-mail friend but with that kind of distance between us that is all we can do.. That is too bad….I think you and I could talk for a long time if we ever met.
    I don’t want to get my hopes up, the distance is difficult and I am extremely busy with my business in the summer….Maybe we can talk on the phone sometime?

    Me: So, are you breaking your own rule about no email friends? 🙂

    Him: Looks like e-mail is all we have for now.

    Him: Too bad we could not meet for coffee, I would have liked to have met you in person.

    Me: I enjoy communicating with you. It would feel interesting to meet you in person.

    Him: [Chemistry] is hard to find and can only be discovered in personal interaction. At least that has been my experience until I started writing to you. I feel we have chemistry even though we have never met. That is weird. lol….But enjoyable. That is the main reason I did not want an e-mail friend because the chemistry in writing is not the same as the personal.If we would ever have a relationship the personal chemistry would be the next component. Does that make any sense?

    Me: The chemistry topic as it relates to online dating feels a tiny bit troubling for me to think about. I feel like I feel some chemistry with you through our writing, too. However, I have heard stories about people who felt they had great chemistry online and then when they met there was absolutely nothing there. Maybe that’s what you were kinda saying too. I haven’t experienced that personally. I do still feel a little perplexed as to why you are breaking your rule with me. 🙂 On the other hand, I have also heard stories where the chemistry that started online was even stronger in person. So there’s that. Feels a bit frustrating, since there’s no way of knowing in advance, and the internet connects people who are miles and miles apart.

    Him: I really enjoy our banter on line and will continue with you if you like. I would rather meet and create a “real” relationship or decide not to but since we have this distance I suppose we have no choice but write.. I have not had the chance or inspiration to write in a long time and you and I have such a common background it seems almost natural.

    ARGHHH!!! I feel so frustrated!!! If he is not going to make a move to meet in person, this will quickly bore and tire me. It’s not like the fun, flirty banter I had with TN man — that was energizing and amazing in and of itself and I kept at that happily for six months! This is much less exciting, but he seems like a good, interesting, marriage-material man.

    I don’t want to have just an email relationship. Yeah, he’s super-busy — but if he asked me to come out there to meet him, I would in a heartbeat — no expectations, just see what happens.

    I don’t feel at all attached to him — I don’t plan on it if we can’t meet in person — but I don’t see much point in continuing if that’s not gonna happen.

    Any advice???

    I don’t feel any need to lean forward and push for meeting — I just am not sure what to say next — maybe I am already feeling bored and weary of just emailing…

    What do you think?

  118.  #118dorothea on July 14, 2010 at 2:56 pm

    Lucy, what about “I don’t really want an email pal either, honestly. Besides, I feel worried that I am going to feel bored quickly if I don’t have plans to go out with you soon.

    what do you sirens think?

  119.  #119dorothea on July 14, 2010 at 2:57 pm

    Lucy, i feel totally uncomfortable reading that you would drive 4 or 5 hours to see him. Let him come to you!

  120.  #120dorothea on July 14, 2010 at 2:58 pm

    oh yeah, ask him what he thinks after u tell him how u feel about wanting to meet with him.

    sorry for the 3 scattered comments 😛

  121.  #121Lucy on July 14, 2010 at 3:14 pm

    I hear ya, dorothea, about the traveling — and I would agree except that he is really super-busy right now with his job and will be for the next couple months — and I would have fun taking the train — a little adventure for me —

  122.  #122Lucy on July 14, 2010 at 3:16 pm

    “I feel worried that I am going to feel bored quickly if I don’t have plans to go out with you soon.”

    Isn’t that leaning forward???

  123.  #123Siena on July 14, 2010 at 3:22 pm

    Lucy, I like what Dorothea said, and the #119 script. But I also don’t feel good about you going to him. If he’s too busy with his job to come to you, he doesn’t get you. YOU are the prize.

    Regardless of how you would feel about it, this is about triggering HIS attraction. If he’s a masculine energy man, he won’t be attracted long if you go to him.

  124.  #124dorothea on July 14, 2010 at 3:29 pm

    How about a little tweak

    I don’t want an email pal, either, to be honest with you…I tend to feel bored quickly when I don’t have plans to meet with an online man relatively soon after we start chatting.

  125.  #125dorothea on July 14, 2010 at 3:30 pm

    oh yeah and then, “what do you think?” or you could go further and be like..”I don’t want that to happen with you, because it already feels so good chatting with you and I would feel interested in seeing how I feel face to face. what do you think?”

    maybe my lil addition is too much. not sure tho

  126.  #126Lucy on July 14, 2010 at 4:43 pm

    Dorothea’s script #115 feels like leaning forward to me — like I’m asking him to ask me out.

    The tweak — #121 — would not be the truth for me — case in point, TN man.

    Traveling to him is a moot point right now, since he hasn’t invited me . . . but I am kinda triggered for some reason, Siena, by what you wrote about that. Hmmm. It reminds me of “Pride and Prejudice” for some reason……

  127.  #127dorothea on July 14, 2010 at 4:51 pm

    how about

    “i am feeling fairly disappointed and frustrated thinking that we might not meet face to face. chatting with you has felt really good and i don’t want to wonder how it would have been face to face. what do you think?”

  128.  #128Lucy on July 14, 2010 at 4:58 pm

    Just got an email from R, the Argentinian who melted me with his kisses and affection:

    “Lucy, are you just looking for a friend? A committed relationship? Are you still living with your husband?


    Take care. Miss you.”

    This is all too much work. Sigh. I feel tired of communicating with men. No, that’s not entirely true. I feel tired of communicating with MOST of the men in my “rotation.”

  129.  #129Lucy on July 14, 2010 at 5:01 pm

    Thanks for tweaking again, dorothea… it still feels like leaning forward to me…. I feel curious about that…..

  130.  #130dorothea on July 14, 2010 at 5:13 pm

    hehe you’re welcome..i’m tryin!

    so feeling messages and don’t wants are leaning forward…but a 5 hour train ride to make a meeting happen wouldn’t be leaning forward?

    btw i’m feeling really excited about all this cd’ing you’ve got going on. i feel inspired and can’t wait to get back into a rotation instead of focusing on LI.

  131.  #131Simply Shannon on July 14, 2010 at 5:23 pm

    I feel totally self absorbed. I will come back and comment on ya’ll’s posts at some point.

    Back to my dilemma. I have stewed on this all day. (Just call me Ms. Leaning Forward With My Thoughts. ) How does this sound?

    Mr. Fab Kisser, I love you but I feel unsure if we’re right for each other. I’ve prayed for clarity around this since we first started dating. So far the answer hasn’t changed. {He’s known about this from about three months in.}

    I don’t want to stop seeing you or talking to you but I don’t want to mislead you either.

    What do you think? Shannon

  132.  #132Lucy on July 14, 2010 at 5:28 pm

    I’m glad you feel inspired! 🙂

    Well, the last “feeling message” was really more about THINKING than feeling —

    ” . . . THINKING that we might not meet face to face. . . to WONDER how it would have been face to face….”

    …which is leaning forward imo….

    The 5 hour train ride does not feel like leaning forward to me because I do not have the agenda you wrote there: “to make a meeting happen.”

    It would not be an “oh, I have to go out there to make it happen or it will never happen” vibe — It just makes sense (if he invited me) to go, based on our respective time availability.

  133.  #133dorothea on July 14, 2010 at 5:29 pm

    Aw Shannon, I can literally feel how draining that must all feel on you. I feel protective of you. have you done anything lovely for yourself lately? maybe take 30 minutes to put on a nice mask and paint your toenails or go to the salon or something…

  134.  #134dorothea on July 14, 2010 at 5:30 pm

    where do you live that you can travel by train? i feel jealous!!!

  135.  #135Lucy on July 14, 2010 at 5:30 pm

    Shannon, that sounds/feels good to me.

  136.  #136joan on July 14, 2010 at 5:35 pm

    Hi Siena,

    I feel confused about your post #102. I feel really perplexed by this situation as this was one part of Rori’s program I felt that I understood.

    I don’t understand why you had to take such an all-encompassing “no” for an answer. As far as I can understand it, the only “no” you had to take was that he wasn’t “able” to take you to the event. Just because he couldn’t/wouldn’t take you, why couldn’t you go anyway?

    If all CDs are supposed to be treated equally, then why not mention – in Siren Speak, of course (i.e., “I’d really like…”) – your interest in the event to your other CDs and see whether one of them stepped up and took you? If none of them stepped up, then why couldn’t you go with a friend or just date yourself and go to the event alone?

    If you didn’t take care of your own interests as far as attending the event, then I feel very curious about your motivation for showing him the flyer. Was it really about your interest in going to the event, or was it more about “being seen” with him at the event?

  137.  #137dorothea on July 14, 2010 at 5:39 pm

    i feel really interested in cd’ing but havent got a rotation up. i still practice with every man in my life all of rori’s tools. so i feel great about that! thanks in advance, universe, for the rotation!

  138.  #138Rori Raye on July 14, 2010 at 6:03 pm

    Irina, Welcome, and it’s not possible to have a relationship this way. You have to be in NY and see him often for anything to happen. If you can’t make that happen…date other men and see what he does. Love, Rori

  139.  #139Rori Raye on July 14, 2010 at 6:07 pm

    nina – here’s my take. Work on YOU. Forget about him. When your self-esteem goes up, we’ll see what he does. Nothing can happen until you’re HAPPY!!!! You have to get happy – get a life, flirt with other men…stop the neediness by getting into it and through it…you have work to do – we’ll help – start NOW!!!! He has nothing to do with this…step back…Love, Rori

  140.  #140Simply Shannon on July 14, 2010 at 8:42 pm

    His emailed reply…

    “11:00 pm. just got this. How come you didn’t call?”

    Wow. Yeah. I’m done. I feel bored. Yep. Didn’t even scratch my radar. Really? I know I’ve crossed the line with him because now I feel disrespect towards him. Not good. I have to remind myself not to roll my eyes. That is the equivalent of relationship death.

    Okay folks. Time to get back on the CD train.

    And oddly enough, I do feel some relief now. I’m sure I’ll feel sad eventually or maybe not. I don’t know. This is a weird place to be.

  141.  #141dorothea on July 14, 2010 at 8:42 pm

    Hello, I just wanted to share with all you sirens about the goddessy and lovely things I am doing/have been doing for myself over the next few days. Thank you, Boy Energy!

    Spending a day doing the following:
    *Getting my hair brazilian straightened. This is going to free up so much of my time daily. I can learn another language with this time!
    *Getting a mani/pedi
    *Getting a facial with great specialist
    *Celebrating the end of a long hard day pampering myself with buying a couple of new dresses for my upcoming vacation.

    Also of interest:
    *Washing and putting away ALL the laundry (mine always piles up..i do one load at a time to have clean clothes on hand but other than that a good 80% of my goddess wardrobe lives in the hamper (what i really mean is that it sits on the floor).

    *Going to the amusement park to ride roller coasters with one of my favorite girl friends.

    *Seeing the symphony in the park

  142.  #142Siena on July 14, 2010 at 8:47 pm

    Joan, you’re absolutely right, I should go to the event by myself. It’s not about me wanting to be seen with him, it’s just that it’s more fun to go with him than to go alone. I guess I could mention to another CD that I want to go, but at this point I don’t feel like it. I’d rather go by myself (which I very well may do) or not at all.

    I didn’t mention it to another CD because this one told me about a month ago that he would be taking me, and it’s this weekend.

    So I’m just feeling pouty. I don’t like to be told no.

    And even though all CDs should be treated the same, the truth is I like this one much better than the others.

    But it’s not the end of the world. I’m just pouting over here in my corner.

  143.  #143Laughing goddess on July 14, 2010 at 8:48 pm

    Thanks Brenda and Siena! I feel this weird mix of attraction and repulsion with the whole Jake/Viena affair.

    Sending you all my love. I’ve been really busy. Haven’t been commenting much but enjoying reading your updates.

  144.  #144Siena on July 14, 2010 at 8:50 pm

    Shannon, did you send him the note you wrote in #131?

  145.  #145Simply Shannon on July 14, 2010 at 8:50 pm

    Dorothea: that sounds lovely! When I read the word brazilian, I immediately thought of something else. LOL!

    As for me having some relaxation today, I went to the pool tonight. It felt so good to swim in the somewhat refreshing water (nearly 100 degrees here lately). And one of my kiddos jumped off the big diving board for the first time tonight! I felt so proud! Never mind that I held his hands and lowered him into the water. 🙂 I couldn’t believe he actually did it. Woohoo!

    Now I am off to bed. Sweet dreams and thank you all for encouraging me today. It feels good to have your support.

  146.  #146Laughing goddess on July 14, 2010 at 8:53 pm

    Oooo, I one thing I feel inspires to share…I’m still with LI but feeling more and more attracted to MM. He’s been sending the sweetest texts where he calls me love muffin and other tender names. We’re friends as of now but the chemistry just keeps getting hotter and hotter. The other day we kissed on the lips to say goodbye (common in my group of friends) and it was yummy! Afterwards he even said “wow, that was good one”.

    I feel so torn between nice, stable guy who is super in to me and hot sexy mystery man who I feel is attracted to me but wanting to be respectful of LI. Oh my! What to do?!?!?!

  147.  #147Lucy on July 14, 2010 at 8:58 pm

    I feel intrigued, LG, as always, with the LI/MM dilemma. 🙂

  148.  #148Simply Shannon on July 14, 2010 at 9:05 pm

    Siena: Yes re post 131. I only added “P.S. I’m putting the kids to bed soon if you want to talk later.”

    He made reference in his earlier email that he couldn’t “bring himself to call” because it felt “super awkward”. I can actually feel the disdain in my words. Blech. He knows I don’t call men. I get that but… he will NOT outgirl me.

    How are things going with CD#1? How are you managing? I’m getting ready to do this again so I feel fascinated to hear what’s happening with you.

    LG: Hmmm… I feel interested in how you are managing this!

  149.  #149Lucy on July 14, 2010 at 9:07 pm

    I don’t know what to call the guy I wrote about earlier — the one who lives in the city four hours away — but I haven’t responded yet to that last email he sent . . . I know Rori says we are to ALWAYS respond to a man — but I am wondering how long we are allowed to wait before doing so. I just feel like I have nothing to say to him right now — or am just not in the mood or something. What do you think?

  150.  #150Simply Shannon on July 14, 2010 at 9:19 pm

    Lucy, if he didn’t ask me anything specifically, I wouldn’t feel any obligation to reply. Even with Mr. Fab Kisser, I waited all day to reply to his email that he sent this morning. This guy is just an email address right now. Even with long emails exchanged, he’s a blip on the screen. As a person who has sent those exact words back to a long distance man, I’d be pushing the brakes real hard. He’s being pretty clear that he’s not looking for a long distance relationship. I’ve even said similar words about feeling chemistry with someone and feeling unsure because of the distance. At the time, I felt a spark of interest because the guy was cute but my reality is I have no intention of investing any time in that person because I’m not dating long distance. BTDT. Brutal but true.

  151.  #151Simply Shannon on July 14, 2010 at 9:22 pm

    Lucy, What did you reply back to R? I feel curious. This guy is leaning forward. I like it. 😉

    My response: Wow. So many questions. It would feel good to talk to you about them. What do you think?

  152.  #152joan on July 14, 2010 at 9:31 pm

    OK, Siena, I get the whole pouty thing, really, I do. You’d rather “cut off your nose to spite your face” as my Mom would say. :-p

    But, while you’re pouting, maybe try some navel-gazing, too … which woman feels more appealing – the one who pouts when things don’t go her way, or the one who takes the “no” in stride and does what’s necessary to make herself happy?

    I’d like to read your post next week telling the story of what a great time you had at the event! How do you feel about that?
    🙁 🙂 😀

  153.  #153dorothea on July 14, 2010 at 9:39 pm

    siena i am going to go to my event alone too, and i’m not gonna say anything to my guy about it.

  154.  #154Siena on July 14, 2010 at 9:57 pm

    Hmmm, you realize if I tell him I’m going to the event (or went), he’s gonna feel like a total heel for not taking me.

    But he’ll also see a woman who takes care of herself and does what she wants. Too independent? Hmmmm…

  155.  #155dorothea on July 14, 2010 at 9:59 pm

    less focusing on what he’ll think or how he’ll feel and more focusing on doing what you want to do. yes yes

  156.  #156dorothea on July 14, 2010 at 10:10 pm

    i mean…please! sorry i sound so rude=/

  157.  #157Siena on July 14, 2010 at 10:14 pm

    So my gf just emailed me that she’s looking to do something different this weekend, and now it looks like she’s gonna go with me to this event.

    That feels good, mostly because I didn’t have to ask anyone… She showed up out of the blue!

    So yay!

  158.  #158joan on July 14, 2010 at 10:29 pm

    YAY, Siena!!
    I had actually considered asking you how you would feel about rewriting one of your comments to read:

    it’s just that it’s more fun to go with [someone] than to go alone.

    But, I ended up deleting it from my post. I guess the energy went out to the Universe anyway.

    *cue Twilight Zone music — doo-doo-doo-doo*

  159.  #159dorothea on July 14, 2010 at 10:40 pm

    I feel so happy that someone showed up without your asking. i leaned forward to two friends tonight to go to dinner and they didn’t want to or were busy and made plans with me for a different day. i felt rejected and sad but i sank in to the feelings and quickly turned the focus to me and had a very very nice and goddessy feeling night alone.

  160.  #160Daria on July 15, 2010 at 2:58 am

    – omg super lol at love muffin. How are u love muffin??? Roflmao. Iove it

  161.  #161Daria on July 15, 2010 at 3:04 am

    I met this guy and then he sucked on my titties omg it was heaven. Then I abruptly left being super turned on and not wanting to take it further. Then I texted and called with him and chatted a lot which was a delicious piece of lean forward pie… Tho it wasn’t that nutritious because I still feel hungry immediately after.

    I’m leaning forward to these two guys but everytime I call them they seem super into me. This guy was amazing on my titties I want more

  162.  #162Daria on July 15, 2010 at 3:08 am

    Cuz I tooted and booted … Yea I tooted and booted.

    I guess what I really wanted from my phonecall was to establish that next time I will let him go down on me… But I didn’t do that. Hmmm that’s what I wanted tho . Part of my experiment is to be directly honest about sexual stuff so I think I will text him it.

  163.  #163Daria on July 15, 2010 at 3:11 am

    I did text him. I feel excited to do so. I feel excited thrilled. I get thrills from bein sexually forward yay

  164.  #164Daria on July 15, 2010 at 3:13 am

    Yah yah yah yah. I feel happy powerful excited. I feel afraid too. I am very interested in sex

  165.  #165Lizzie on July 15, 2010 at 6:30 am

    Here is the mother in me Daria – you have triggered all my worries – please practice safe sex with all your fab fun guys – that makes the fun for you really liberating.

  166.  #166Siena on July 15, 2010 at 8:50 am

    Morning Sirens! So, just finishing up my experience from last night… one thing I wanted to say, but felt too tired to last night was that I was okay with my poutiness too. I wanted to honor those feelings and feel them fully without immediately turning to something to make me feel better.

    This morning I woke up feeling really good, and the e-letter from Rori made me feel even better. I feel so good to understand that the way she describes how you should be with a man in her e-letter this morning is how I am being!

    This hasn’t happened to me before, but it feels very peaceful and good.

  167.  #167Siena on July 15, 2010 at 8:56 am

    Shannon, thanks for asking about #1CD. So here’s how that is going…

    He’s a really wonderful man. I mean, totally treats me like a queen and I feel very good when I’m with him. We fit in a way I’ve never fit before.

    But he’s a single dad, and I’m finding that very difficult to deal with. His time is limited to the point where he’s had to break dates with me to be with his kids.

    On one hand, I totally understand that his kids come first. I’m not in any way in competition with his kids.

    But it’s challenging to express my feelings about things without making him wrong for being a good dad, and without trying to fix the situation or be understanding or nice.

    I mean, I’ve totally set myself up for building some serious Siren muscles!

    So… I have no idea how this is all going to turn out. I’m just taking it one day at a time (sometimes 1 hour at a time) and when he approaches me, being totally open about who I am and where I’m at.

    And then also staying open to other men who might enter the picture too. My mantra nowadays is, “I’m open and available.”

  168.  #168lm on July 15, 2010 at 9:22 am

    ugh! guy at work told me i was ‘inconsiderate’ because i don’t email him or intitiate dates.

    he said that by leaning back i was either being rude or ‘testing him on purpose’. i felt so gross. i felt attacked. i feel so angry and turned off.

    when we started dating he initiated most things and it was fine. when i really started doing NOTHING he became angrier and angrier. i was always warm and sunny when he came towards me. i feel very sad.

  169.  #169Siena on July 15, 2010 at 9:36 am

    lm, I’m so sorry, that feels icky!

    My take on it is that you are triggering intimacy in him, and therefore anger. If you can stay strong in your feminine space, you might be surprised about what his next moves are!

  170.  #170lm on July 15, 2010 at 10:11 am

    we broke up this morning…

    i think he was a boy man, he wanted me to row but he didn’t like the direction i rowed in when i did. he’d demand that i make plans but then wouldn’t like the plans i made and didn’t want to do anything i suggested. it was like he wanted me to come up with suggestions so he could shoot them down.

    he really really really hated feeling messages to the point of calling them ‘bullshit’ on the phone to me once. he said ‘yeah, yeah, you’ve been telling me how you feel for the last 15 minutes. you’ve told me a million times.’ he also told me i ‘wasn’t a woman’ and ‘brought nothing to the table’ because i ‘didn’t make him supper every night or build a home for him’. but he never asked me to do any of these things except when he was enraged, which was whever we had any sort of discussion about any topic he didn’t like or had any disagreement at all. it was sort of crazy. he also expected me to tell him i loved him (even though he never said it to me) and to initiate physical contact first all the time, which made me feel pressured and gross.

    at one point he sent another woman a romantic email and signed up to a dating website the weekend he took me home to meet his parents for the first time. this made me really angry and i felt hurt and i think i became more negative towards him over time because i lost any positive feelings i had towards him and lost my trust.

    i really just can’t deal with it anymore. i think being told i’m ‘inconsiderate’ for not phoning a man is the last straw for me. it just felt awful.

    sorry for the rant. i am just totally done and i feel so angry (mostly at myself for staying in this) and so sad. we were together for 2 years.

  171.  #171lm on July 15, 2010 at 10:19 am

    also, whenever i said i felt lonely or distant or weird he’d say ‘well, i must be the worst boyfriend in the whole world. i must be a piece of s*%t.’ i was literally just saying ‘i feel distant. i feel sad. or i feel weird when X happens.’ I probably did end up attacking him towards the end because i was so tired of being yelled at and insulted. ugh.

  172.  #172Lizzie on July 15, 2010 at 10:45 am

    IM – your now ex-man has serious self esteem problems. And is displaying tendencies toward the narcissistic personality. He was trying to turn you into his “source supply” – when a source supply doesn’t respond the way they want them to, they will turn on you. What you have described fits. If you google the Narcissist Personality you might find something that resonates with you. I was married to one – you have done the right thing and as you reflect and learn from the experience, you will discover your personal courage and strength and how incredibly wonderful you are. Fear not, most likely you were responding to his attacks on you in self-defense. We can do absolutely nothing to change the narcissist. You are free! congratulations!! Let the hurt wash right through you

  173.  #173dorothea on July 15, 2010 at 10:47 am

    that feels yucky, lm. sorry to hear..

  174.  #174lm on July 15, 2010 at 10:56 am

    thanks lizzie and dorthea. i didn’t want to totally piss him off because i see him all day, so i told him i can’t talk to him or see him or receive communications from him until he agrees to get counselling (something he refuses to do). it was sort of a passive way out, but i felt so…blech and yucky.

    i feel so much better already. i am glad i will never have to sit through another night watching him charm and perform for other people then act totally different at home with me. or hear that he’s said negative things about me. or have him make fun of something i’ve done or something i’m interested in.

    i guess we all have the ability to act this childishly, but it became his way of being around me all the time. i am not proud of how i acted at times, but i think i can forgive myself!!! i am so angry with myself for not being honest about how much i was hurting.

    thanks ladies. you’re beautiful people!

  175.  #175lm on July 15, 2010 at 10:57 am

    sorry…dorothea. i got all activated and was typing up a fast storm there!

  176.  #176dorothea on July 15, 2010 at 10:59 am

    no need to apologize

    have you ever worked with rori’s toxic men program? it might be a good fit for you, though i personally havent used that one.

  177.  #177Brenda on July 15, 2010 at 11:01 am


    I feel strongly that in a relationship, whether the children belong to both partners or not, the couple come first!!!

    Let’s say in 5 years you are a family. Is he going to always put the children first? I am impressed when I see an attentive, loving father, too, and I will marry no less. But if there is no couple, there is no family, right?

    Are you ever involved with his time with his children?

  178.  #178Brenda on July 15, 2010 at 11:02 am


    My heart goes out to you in your time of sadness and pain. It’s him, not you. You handled it well. I don’t doubt what Lizzie said about being a narcissist.



  179.  #179dorothea on July 15, 2010 at 11:03 am

    no quiero trabajar. do not want to work.
    i work for a non profit
    people are counting on me to do for them what they cannot do for themselves

    i look forward to a life in the future…when i can do this work for the joy of it and not to keep a roof over my head

    the dynamic would likely change for me

  180.  #180lm on July 15, 2010 at 11:06 am

    thanks brenda! i feel lighter already!

    and can i say that i have enjoyed watching your journey on here? you are inspiring.

  181.  #181dorothea on July 15, 2010 at 11:12 am

    Yeah I’m working anyway, crossin things off the to-do list. holla! i’m a grudgingly goddess.

  182.  #182Daria on July 15, 2010 at 11:16 am

    Hmm. I will practice waterer ssex I want with all my guys. Trigger!

    I don’t want people to tell me to practice Sade sex. I feel angry and unsafe and judged. I feel annoyed.

    Why. Cuz I feel like I’m being judged as having too much sex. And too something to be in charge of my own sex life. I don’t like being mothered this way. It feels better to be mothered with encouragement. I don’t like other peoples worries dumped on me. Hmm. Why? Because I feel bad icky and obligated.

  183.  #183dorothea on July 15, 2010 at 11:24 am

    Daria I know you are triggered but safe sex is important when you are CD’ing. it should be one of the ‘rules’ of cd’ing. A rule I break sometimes with my one exclusive sexual partner (bad girl me…the consequence was that I appear to have had a miscarriage).

    I also personally know that Daria uses condoms. I feel warm and fuzzy and safe here knowing that the sirens will remind us about our safety. Diseases and unplanned pregnancies with unsure men are not very sireny. I don’t want the women here to feel scared off of friendly and caring reminders to be as safe and sireny as possible.

    what do you all think?

  184.  #184Lizzie on July 15, 2010 at 11:45 am

    Thanks dorothea, you expressed it so much better than I – and my apologies Daria – when I re-read my note, it did feel like judgement to me and I meant with my heart. I have been doing considerable work in HIV communities recently and it is heartbreaking to hear the stories – husbands giving it to their wife then kicking them out of the house/country/community; street kids getting it on purpose so that they can access social assistance; the philandering husband who didn’t tell his wife of 20 years then committed suicide and left her a note; my 50-year old girlfriend who asked the question and then and was told he was clean then ended up with partial paralysis because he gave her herpes…. I have condoms all over my desk and my kids think I am weird, never the less, I want them to really get the message safety first. My typing got ahead of myself, sincerest apologies Daria.

    I am all for awesome ssex!

  185.  #185Simply Shannon on July 15, 2010 at 12:05 pm

    An observation… regardless of how Daria’s feelings hit everyone, her saying them brought out this amazing story from Lizzie. We wouldn’t have had the privilege of knowing about that if Daria hadn’t spoken her feelings. How cool is that!?!

    Hehe! Something just clicked for me. It doesn’t matter if it’s “not nice” or politically correct or whatever. It’s about engaging with someone.

  186.  #186Lucy on July 15, 2010 at 12:58 pm

    Shannon, that makes sense about the 4 hour away guy. I feel intrigued by your statement, “He’s being pretty clear that he’s not looking for a long distance relationship” — because for some reason, to ME, he didn’t seem clear at all on that! — and that was my frustration — thinking, well, are you or aren’t you open to this? — he seemed ambivalent to me — and almost like he was open but wondering if *I* was. But I feel bored with the whole thing anyway — so, if he wants me, he’ll have to do something different. The disappointing part, though, is that even though I didn’t feel strongly attracted, he was one of the few men I’ve encountered who actually meets my basic requirements for marriage. Oh well. I didn’t bother replying to his last email.

  187.  #187Lucy on July 15, 2010 at 1:27 pm

    Shannon, here is my response to R:

    Hi R. I am interested in dating and spending time with men — hoping to someday meet a man with whom I can have a loving, lasting marriage. During this time, I also feel open to developing new friendships. I like you too and would feel good about spending time with you again. The man I married hasn’t lived here since 2001. Lucy

    He replied:

    That’s Cool. I would like to see you again sometime.
    I don’t want to sound pushy. R


    I’m not sure what to do/say next, if anything. I already told him I would feel good about seeing him again, so it seems to me he needs to ask me out now if he wants anything to happen.

    He would just be a practice guy for me anyway — not someone I would marry — so it really doesn’t matter that much to me what he does. PLUS, I feel kinda scared of how intensely sensual he is. I’m not sure I trust him — definitely would not want to be alone with him yet. AND, all this talk about std’s is VERY timely — this guy is definitely the kind I would want to “take as a lover” IF I wanted to do that kind of thing (and wasn’t scared of him!) — but I really really really don’t want to get a disease!!! I don’t think I’ve ever met a man as sensual and sensuous as he is — I suspect he would make me feel incredible if I let him. Is accent is sexy too … he speaks softly … and I can almost hear seductive Spanish music playing in the background…. Lol.

  188.  #188dorothea on July 15, 2010 at 1:50 pm

    “and I can almost hear seductive Spanish music playing in the background…. Lol.”


  189.  #189Lucy on July 15, 2010 at 3:39 pm

    My bunch of attractive guys have disappeared one by one.

    1. Mirror Man has not contacted me at all since our first date last Friday. I didn’t really like his personality, but would have gone out with him again cuz he was soooo cute. He taught me that extremely handsome guys can lose their appeal quickly if they don’t have other qualities to back it up.

    2. Sculptor Man (from the city of P — same as TN man and the “new” guy) has not contacted me at all since my lunch with him and his friends last Wednesday. I liked him and definitely would have liked to see him again. He may still end up contacting me — his emails were always far apart anyway — but I’m not holding my breath. He taught me that I can have fun in the moment and still appreciate the fun I had even if I never hear from the guy again. Also, that I really do crave and enjoy being around people like him and his team — artsy, smart, lively, open.

    3. The handsome black man who lives in Brenda’s area has not contacted me in over a week, after some great, frequent emails and texting in which he expressed keen interest in me — and we never even got around to meeting.

    4. Winker Hottie. Mmmm. Yum. He is a mystery. He lives an hour and a half away and we have not met. And he has not contacted me in about 4 days. His M.O. is hard to describe…. he’s cute and fun and funny and charming and enigmatic . .. he’ll write emails or texts that make it sound like he’s very interested in me and we have some delightful banter . .. then nothing. Then on again. Then nothing. Now it’s back to nothing. Connecting with him feels (felt?) VERY good. He had sent me an mp3 of his newest song (he’s a singer/songwriter) and … um, I could get lost in his voice and his music….. He is very yummy. And shares my faith. I could marry this one. BUT NOT IF HE DOESN’T FREAKIN’ STEP UP AND WANT ME!!!!!!!!!!!

    So there you have it. The exodus of the attractive men.

    I wonder what’s next….?

  190.  #190Siena on July 15, 2010 at 3:45 pm

    Brenda, re #177. I agree with you – for a couple.

    We are just dating right now. I haven’t met his kids yet and I’m aware that meeting them signals a big step in our “relationship” (we talked about this very early on).

    In 5 years, if I’m with him, I better come first! But for now, while we’re still dating and seeing if this relationship is the “one”, then I don’t want to meet his kids.

    I dated a single dad once who had custody of his son, and who introduced me to his son on our first date – we hung out all together. The son and I got close over a few month’s period, and then the dad and I broke up. Since then, he’s had at least 2 other gf’s I know of that his son has no doubt met and possibly bonded with.

    I still feel bad when I think of how I allowed that to happen. I feel responsible for adding even a little bit of baggage to the little guy’s life.

    I would have rather not met the son (great as he is) and not added any hurt to his life at all…

    so I feel content to wait to see what shakes out with #1CD before I meet his kids. There’s plenty of time for that!!

  191.  #191Lucy on July 15, 2010 at 3:53 pm

    I feel weird and anxious reading about the couple coming first, before the kids. I am thinking those words must have a different meaning to you two than they do to me…..

  192.  #192Siena on July 15, 2010 at 4:10 pm

    I feel interested about that Lucy! I grew up in a family where my parents’ relationship to eachother came before either of their relationships with their kids.

    We were loved, nurtured and cared for, but always knew that the primary relationship was between my parents.

    I don’t know if that’s healthy or not, but it’s what was modeled for me. And their 50th is this year.

    So part of me wanting to be part of a happily ever after couple is to be put first. I’ve never had that before!

  193.  #193Siena on July 15, 2010 at 4:21 pm

    Illustrating my point: #1CD tells me I have the most beautiful eyes he’s ever seen. Whether it’s a line or not, I don’t care, because in my entire life, I’ve NEVER heard (before him) that I have beautiful eyes. Not once. In fact, I’ve always thought my eyes were plain and oddly shaped (because what I HAVE heard a lot from my family is that I have slangy eyes).

    I told my mom what #1CD said about my eyes and she said, well of course! My response was that it’s not an “of course”, I have never ever heard that in my entire life!

    Her response was, “well, how was I supposed to tell one of my children she had the most beautiful anything in front of the others?”

    I’m still flabergasted by that. Here I’ve gone through my entire life thinking I had ugly eyes. again, I don’t know if my parents’ ways were right. It’s just what I learned.

  194.  #194Lucy on July 15, 2010 at 4:24 pm

    My parents celebrated their 50th two years ago.

    I think the question is, what is meant by the words you are using:

    “my parents’ relationship to each other came before either of their relationships with their kids.”

    “….to be put first.”

    Maybe it’s just a matter of semantics.

  195.  #195Siena on July 15, 2010 at 4:32 pm

    It must be semantics. At least, I don’t know how to explain it… We always had everything we needed, but they were the primary members of the family.

    For example, my mother would NEVER side with me against my dad in an argument, even if I was right. She might have talked to him when they were alone, telling him I was right. But never in front of me…

  196.  #196Lucy on July 15, 2010 at 4:42 pm

    Siena, if you always had everything you needed, then I suspect there were times when your parents put YOU before each other — at least in the way that *I* mean those words when I hear them or say them.

  197.  #197gina on July 15, 2010 at 6:31 pm

    hi Ladies,
    it feels good to read everyone’s points of view and stories.

    Shannon – I felt relieved to read about you letting go of Fab Kisser…I could feel your frustration! How’s the skin picking? i haven’t indulged in any serious sessions, though I am sadly aware of all the little scars all over my face 🙁

    Lucy – I think that a fun train trip could be great if he made you feel so super great about

    I felt tense when i read Lizzie’s advice to Daria, nervous reading about Daria’s anger, and relieved when the tension released when Daria’s feelings were addressed. It’s good to witness uncomfortable situations being worked out.

  198.  #198Lizzie on July 15, 2010 at 7:58 pm

    Kids come first and single parents is a great question to explore…

    I find the experience of dating people with kids an interesting one – frequently I will see in their profiles and people will say the kids come first. I feel confused by that statement because it is so strong and is most likely incorrect or misleading. Men seem to compartmentalize it to the point where if they are in possession of the children at that moment, they will not do anything else. Women seem to have a little more flexibility overall with having the kids around. Naturally age is a factor. Having now had a bit of experience with men who take the kids a week at a time, (sample size 3 so not terribly credible), at the point at which they are in possession of kids, they will not talk with me, email me, text me, play with me etc. If the kids are out for the morning, then all is fair – we will play golf, we will play in the hot-tub, we will play.

    This is the way I approach “my kids come first” – in reality I have many firsts. When I wake up in the morning, I reflect on the day and consider whose needs need to come first – does my daughter need to get to swimming at 5:AM? Yes – then her needs come first. Does my son need to have a hot breakfast that day? Yes, then his needs come first. Do I need to get to a meeting downtown by 7:30? then, my needs come first. In other words, everyone comes first, just some need to move up the first ladder until their needs are looked after and on and on.

    If we think with an integrated heart and logic, there are some natural “above all else firsts”

    – a sick person is always first
    – a crying person is always first
    – someone in pain is always first
    – a hungry person is always first

    then we have regular events:
    – 5 AM swim times are always first (what else could possibly be important at that hour of the day???)
    – birthdays are always first
    – major life events are always first
    – hugs are always first
    – making sure I always look fabulous is always first 🙂
    – eating regularly for everyone is always first
    – mom’s rare date is always first
    – bicycle accidents with broken (bones, skin, faces, feet, etc.) are always first
    – “A” on report cards is always first
    – coffee is always first
    – a broken finger nail is always first – actually it is first among firsts
    – anybody crying is always first
    – catching an airplane is always first

    everything else comes second. So, make sure your man is in tears with a broken fingernail, and in desperate need of a hug and a cup of coffee. 🙂

    So yes, kids come first, so do I, so does my man, so does my business, it is all relative and it is subject to being defined and most importantly, it is subject to change at a moment’s notice (and sometimes no notice at all)

    Overall it is all about what feels right at any given moment.
    Consider that a man who has most likely struggled to have custody and access, will exercise his access. For someone who does not have children to date someone who does, it seems to me there is a greater need to be patient and understanding and incredibly flexible because things will come up all the time that will infringe on your time with your man.

    My dates find it hilarious that my son will send me a text to check up on me while I am out with them. And when I don’t answer, well I have to answer to that…Imagine at 50 I am sneaking around on my kids – didn’t I end all that when I was 20???? seems not.

  199.  #199Siena on July 15, 2010 at 8:14 pm

    Lizzie, thank you for that post! You are right on about a woman possibly being more flexible with her time than a single dad.

    It’s a tight wire that I’m walking, because on one hand, I don’t want to tolerate bad behavior (not that he’s exhibited any), but on the other hand, there IS a need to be patient, understanding and incredibly flexible, just like you said. It requires a lot of energy and positive self-talk on my end to realize, ‘oh yeah, he’s not seeing me this weekend not because he’s not interested, but because he has his kids.’ And when he has his kids – just like you said – he’s 100% absorbed in that.

    It might change if/when I start to become a part of all of that, but who knows?

    All I know is that he’s worth it. I feel so good with him, and he makes me feel special again and again.

    …and I wouldn’t want a man who doesn’t take care of his children.

  200.  #200Lucy on July 15, 2010 at 8:18 pm

    Lizzie, I love what you wrote here — I didn’t have the time or energy to go into all that detail, so I feel glad that you did! Humor aside, that’s what I was getting at — different people come first at different times depending on circumstances, needs, etc.

    And, particularly, a young child’s basic NEEDS come before an adult’s WANTS. There are so many situations in our world in which the reverse happens, and that is a tragedy.

  201.  #201Siena on July 15, 2010 at 8:34 pm

    Rori, are you listening? I would love to read a post about how to date a single parent.

    I know you’ll say “CD until he makes it official”, but there are so many special circumstances in the meantime like broken dates because a kid is sick or when to meet his kids, and does that mean anything to him on his relationship timeline.

    I’d love to hear your take on this!

  202.  #202Lizzie on July 16, 2010 at 6:41 am

    Siena you bring up another really interesting topic around when do you get to meet the kids and what does that mean, I do hope Rori adds her insights here.

    I am always asking my friends how they did it because I have failed at this one – I introduced the kids too early to a guy and it was a colossal disaster. The kids hated him and naturally he ended up reflecting back the same feelings. My sister dates a guy who actually got in fisticuffs with her son so the son and the guy are never in the same place at the same time – too weird.

    What seems to feel OK is to go very slow. Just when you think it is a good idea to meet the kids, add another 3 months or longer. To me, the relationship has to be on very solid footing because you can be sure 90% of the time if the kids don’t accept the new person, the new person will be dumped. Now we can add all kinds of conditions to this – it depends on a variety of factors:
    – age of kids
    – age of parents
    – what is going on with the mom
    – is the mom dating
    – how acrimonious was the divorce
    – how did it affect the kids
    – how is the relationship now
    – how protective are the kids toward the mom
    – what is the child care arrangement
    – does the father pay his child support – and was it a fair allocation of resources
    – what is going on in the individual lives of the kids
    – are there special needs with any child
    – are there special athletic needs of any child
    – how possessive are the kids toward the father and his time
    – what is he like as a parent
    – what are the independence needs of the kids

    It isn’t an easy answer – very complex. I have seen every imaginable combination work. In the end it is all about what is going to work for you as a couple and then what is going to work for you as an extended couple. Bringing kids in will immediately change the dynamic of all the relationships. In an ideal world, the kids will accept you with open arms and be happy, you will have a blast being part of the extended family, you become best friends with the ex wife (I actually know three situations where that has happened – even one where the ex-husband moved into the home of my friend and her new husband – imagine that!). Realistically,I know more that have gone terribly off the rails and I would say perfectly good relationships that had great potential, but the introduction process wasn’t carefully thought through.

    I asked my step-father about what it was like for him to meet me and my 3 siblings and we were in our late teens and all independent. His response: he had never been more stressed in his life – in his eyes, there was a lot at stake.

    I asked my step-mother the same thing – she said it was extremely stressful for her for a long time. I had no idea because I have always liked her immensely and we became very close very quickly. She is only 10 years older than me.

    It takes time and patience. If you really like the guy, together you will get very creative at working around schedules. That is just my experience and I would really love to hear others experiences – it is a very important topic.

  203.  #203Sherry on July 16, 2010 at 7:14 am

    Siena – my two cents lol

    A woman is usually more flexible because she has the kids more (custody). A man has to schedule his life around his visitation. Since he is not with them day in and day out, this is the time for him to switch to his “dad hat.”

    My kids are 21 and 19. I have a #1 CD also who I have been dating for almost 4 months now. Even though my kids are older, I have not introduced them to him. I don’t know how it owrks for men, but for me that is a huge step. It is saying I have made a decision I want this person in my life for the long term and I am willing to allow him in to the life of my most precious babies. It takes a huge amount of security and trust for me to do that. And, a lot of time.

  204.  #204Sherry on July 16, 2010 at 7:20 am

    Oh – and Lizzie is correct when she says it changes the whole dynamics of the relationship. It goes from being about the two of you to being about you, him, and the kids. I personally like to have a very solid foundation built between the two of us before adding more on.

  205.  #205Siena on July 16, 2010 at 8:10 am

    Wow, Sherry and Lizzie, I can’t tell you how grateful I feel to hear your experiences and insight! Thank you x100!

    You basically put into “woman speak” what #1CD and I have been talking about for a while, but I didn’t really “get it” until I read these just now.

    My instinct with him (and we’ve talked about this too) is to go super slow where meeting his kids are concerned. I don’t want to rush this very romantic getting to know you time, because I have a feeling that when I meet his kids, dynamics will change. And I would want to be really solid as a couple – with marriage on the table – before that happens.

    He’s talking about trying to get full custody, which I support 100%. if I’m honest, I’d rather be in that situation than in one where he lives in a different household than his kids.

    Thank you both so much!!

  206.  #206Simply Shannon on July 16, 2010 at 8:21 am

    Siena: I’m stumbling along on this whole dating with kids thing too. My view is a little different. I think we should absolutely take it slow regarding meeting children. I feel hesitant to involve my kiddos until I feel really good about things. However, there is something to be said for not keeping my life so segmented and for allowing my children the benefit of meeting people in my life. The fear I get around this is that we’ll all get attached and then one day never get to see each other again. I don’t want to live my life that way. Yes, I want to protect my children but… I can do that even if they meet someone I’m dating. It’s all about keeping the lines of communication open.

    I don’t know what I’m saying here. My little ones are young so the concept I portray is this is Mommy’s friend. Not this is Mommy’s boyfriend/lover/forever mate. They’ve met a few of the guys’ I’ve dated.

    I want to be open minded about this. *I* am the one who compartmentalizes my time with my children. When I have them, I typically don’t date. That’s my time with them. When my ex has the boys, I generally consider myself available to date. Makes that time even more precious but also more pressure filled because it is MY free time.

    Rambling now. 🙂

  207.  #207Siena on July 16, 2010 at 8:39 am

    Shannon, I totally understand where you’re coming from. This brings up another point (loaded topic!)… Being introduced as a “friend”. That doesn’t fly for me in normal dating land. Not for long anyway. It’s a red flag for me to be introduced as a friend if I’ve been dating someone for more than a couple of months. But it makes sense to introduce like that to children!

  208.  #208Lizzie on July 16, 2010 at 8:39 am

    Wow Siena – if you are talking about full custody, you are in for a tough ride. Well your man is and you by default. If I may, it is a road faught with many hidden cliffs and there are a few things to tuck away to help keep you grounded:
    – going after full support is an extremely expensive proposition on the time, financial, and emotional resources
    – it is exceptionally difficult to pull off for either parent and there is a natural bias against giving full custody to a father
    – it may become a dominant part of your conversations with your man and that will be the death of the relationship if it does – and it is insideous or what we call emotional creep
    – this is something that needs to managed with the head not the heart.

    It is a very difficult road to go down – you will discover in yourself, emotional resilience you never knew you had. Be very careful about managing the boundaries and stay focused on building the relationship with your guy. He will move from being dogmatic to needy and everything inbetween – it is so not easy for them. I think you will be coaching everyone here on how to bring leaning-back to a whole new level!

  209.  #209Simply Shannon on July 16, 2010 at 9:28 am

    Hehe! Siena: How would you like them to introduce you? As girlfriend? That sends shivers up my arms. It feels good in a way but it’s also a loaded label. Right? What happened to “no-girlfriend”? I’m goofing with you here but honestly I don’t know how I’d like to be introduced.

    Lizzie: I have no experience in the custody battle. I always had “custody” but my ex has the kids as much as he wants. The label “custody” is pretty meaningless for me and my boys. For me, the word feels loaded. It implies they are “mine”, when clearly they are “ours”. Granted mine are not in an abusive situation or anything like that. Custody to me implies I’m having to legally protect a child from the other parent. That’s a whole different thing in my mind.

  210.  #210Siena on July 16, 2010 at 9:36 am

    hehe Shannon I believe in total double standards! He BETTER call me his gf, but we all know I’m not 😉

  211.  #211Siena on July 16, 2010 at 9:54 am

    Lizzie, thank you for your heads-up, I really appreciate it!

    The reason why I’m 100% supportive of him going for custody is that I would rather go through what you described in #208 than have his children witness any disrespect that is directed toward him.

  212.  #212Lizzie on July 16, 2010 at 10:10 am

    Shannon I am in complete envy of you – green green green! I feel so much love for my children it squeezes me from the inside out. I am also deeply sad that they have no real father – it is a crushing sadness. You have managed to create a shared access life that will stand so well with your kids forever. Mine will never really see and experience what a deep intimate relationship with a husband and father is like. They will have to guess and create it themselves. To say you are lucky is an in-my-boy-head platitide – in my feeling space I am heart-warmed by your courage in creating a safe loving unique “family” arrangement for all of you to thrive.

  213.  #213dorothea on July 16, 2010 at 10:20 am

    Hey, I don’t have kids but I grew up with a single mom who was a serial monogamist and even got married and had it enulled soon after. I don’t think it’s right to bring dates or new partners into children’s lives. in fact, i would say their paths should not cross too often unless marriage is on the table, in which case he should be either trying to get in good with your kids if you’re a parent, or get his kids in good with you if he’s a parent, or get each other’s kids in good with each other.

    it felt so bad having different men in and out of my mom’s life, and consequently, my own. i felt second important. i felt like a third wheel. i felt confused. it hurt me bad.

    i now am of the belief that kids should be left entirely out of it until marriage is on the table.

  214.  #214Lucy on July 16, 2010 at 10:20 am

    I agree Siena — I much prefer being with a man who has full custody. In fact, most of my CD’s who have kids have had full custody. It just feels better to me all the way around.

    The Lit Prof I have mentioned previously (the one my daughter wants me to marry) — he got full custody of his kids a year ago, and I like that — however, now he feels exhausted all the time.

    As far as when to meet the kids — my kids are teens and twenties — and since I am circular dating — and will not be a girlfriend — I’m pretty casual about the guys meeting my kids — that is, I don’t PLAN to introduce them, but sometimes they’re around when a guy comes to pick me up or something and if they don’t run and hide in their rooms, I’ll just say, “This is [his name]” and then tell him their names — I don’t have to label him because my kids know I am just dating a bunch of different guys until I find Mr. Right.

    Tattoo Man, who was the only guy to ever spend time at my home (last week he was here for the evening), is a different story — we are friends, and my kids know that too. Although I’m starting to think I might like to be fwb with him, hehe (would NOT tell my kids THAT!!!) . .. really, I might like to actually date him . . . but kinda feel like what’s the point since I know he’s not a guy I would marry.

    What do we do in situations like that? What if we really enjoy being with a man, even in a romantic-type way, but we KNOW we would not marry him? Do we just go with it, enjoy him, until we’re engaged to someone else???

  215.  #215Lucy on July 16, 2010 at 10:27 am

    Dorothea — I agree — it is really hard on kids when a parent has a series of boyfriends/girlfriends who become part of the kids’ lives and then move on.

  216.  #216dorothea on July 16, 2010 at 10:30 am

    yeah and these men never really liked ME, they liked my mom and were nice to me or just not rude to me because they wanted to get in good with my mother.

  217.  #217Lizzie on July 16, 2010 at 10:59 am

    Dorothea – your story continues to unfold….my goodness my heart goes out to you. Have found it a challenge to accept love? I have some life parallels with you and have built so many walls around myself that I could say with real honesty, I have no clue as to what it feels like to be loved. Do you? Would you share more? I so appreciate your openness.

  218.  #218Siena on July 16, 2010 at 11:03 am

    I love this blog and you ladies and feel so grateful for the support I found here! Thank you for all your input into the ‘dating with kids’ topic. I feel so supported, and genuinely interested in everyone’s story! Dorothea, your input really solidified my desire to not become a part of #1CD’s kids’ lives unless/until marriage is on the table… thank you so much for opening your heart and sharing!

    On a separate note, here’s a cool “connection quiz” that I just took for fun… now back to work…

  219.  #219dorothea on July 16, 2010 at 11:23 am

    Lizzie, thank you for the nice warm fuzzy feeling i got reading your comment to me.

    I have had a hard time accepting love. All of my loving relationships left me, starting with my parents and ending with my first love (the only other man i’ve slept with besides my current LI).

    When the time was right I told my LI about my compulsion to push him away, and that i felt weird about love and all that…just was really honest. and he insisted he wouldnt let me push him away, and that i will learn what love is supposed to feel like, and that his parents will show me love too…and so far he has followed through with all that.

  220.  #220Brenda on July 16, 2010 at 11:38 am


    And he even loves you with a mustache! 🙂

  221.  #221Simply Shannon on July 16, 2010 at 11:53 am

    I don’t know why I feel such resistance here. Something about this is triggering me. Hmmm.

    My kids are such a large part of my life. I guess I’m having a hard time figuring out how to integrate it all or conversely compartmentalize my dating life from my mom life. That feels difficult.

    I want to believe in the natural ebb and flow of life. People come in my life; people go out of my life. Same for my kids. Even my friends come into my life for a season. Some move away, some stop calling. It happens. People stop coming around me and consequently my kids.

    I don’t introduce my kids right away but eventually yeah. Just to see how it goes. And if I do, the guy has to be rockstar enough to know that I can’t focus only on him when they are around (mine are young).

    Hmmm… I guess this goes back to the who’s on first discussion earlier. A CD is just a man. My kids are no. 1, unless I’m no. 1. My CD is a date.

    I don’t know why I feel triggered about this discussion. I don’t even introduce my kids that often. I have to A and to Mr. Fab Kisser. And I met their kids too.

    I guess I’m triggered by the thought that I’m hurting them by introducing them. Then I’ll feel worried. And that just adds one more worry to my list. Blech. That doesn’t feel good. I want to protect them yes. I love them so much. I just want to believe it can be different and we’ll all be okay no matter what.

  222.  #222Siena on July 16, 2010 at 11:57 am

    Shannon, maybe this is it:

    Introducing is one thing. But I’m talking about spending time with and becoming part of their lives. I wouldn’t mind being introduced to #1CDs kids in passing or in a very casual way sooner rather than later. But integrating the kids’ lives into ours as a couple (or potential couple) is totally different, IMO.

    Here’s what it is: I don’t want to build a relationship with the kids until I’m certain that the relationship with their father has staying power.

    Does that feel better?

  223.  #223Brenda on July 16, 2010 at 12:02 pm

    If I were dating a man who had kids, and I was at his house, I would NEVER expect or even want for him to spend all his time and attention on me. That would be really self-centered if someone felt that they should!

    When I date a single father, I am highly attuned to how he treats his kid(s). It tells a huge amount about a man that will make or break the relationship for me. If he is very attentive to them, then I know he will be very attentive to me.

  224.  #224Sapphire-n-jewels on July 16, 2010 at 12:18 pm

    I have posted recently about my fiancé leaving me, wanting to date etc. Anyway this week there has been a turn around and we are working things out. He slept over since Tuesday night, wants me to wear our ring back on me finger( not quite engaged but as a commitment of being together. He still going to Egypt

  225.  #225sapphire-n-jewels on July 16, 2010 at 12:30 pm

    (sorry submitted by accident) Next week but he booked a couple of weeks ago, so I feel a bit annoyed but ok with it.
    Anyway the thing I need your advise over is that after this big wake up call and all the overfunction that i have done in this relationship (I would say I am addicted to him) I want to cut back on that. I am finding it hard to not reach out for the affection. In the begining he was always initiating it. I do it mostly now, he does find it stressful when I am demanding the attention by consistently reaching out to him. How do I stop it. I have a lot of Rori’s programs the Siren, reconect and also the heart connection tool kit. I listen to them a lot and am trying to remember to use all the tools, find it difficult in the moment to stop my old patterns.
    Can some of you please give me some tips. I know why I am finding this hard. I am worried if I stop initiating it then I will not get enough to keep me happy. He does still initiaite it but he said again tonight that he only wants (I went to hold his hand) to when he wants to and not because he picks up from me that I expect it. He is very intune with my vibe. The other thing is it means so much more to me when he initiates it so why do I keep sabataging myself by reaching out first.
    Best Wishes Ladies

  226.  #226Siena on July 16, 2010 at 12:36 pm

    Can you tell it’s Friday? I don’t want to work!

    Sapphire n Jewels, hugs girl! What else do you have going on in your life to fill you up with happiness? Do you have a list of things to do to make you happy that you can reach for when you want to initiate?

    It takes hard work to get out of the pattern of relying on a man for happiness, but once you start, it gets easier and easier.

    My list is:
    going to the beach
    taking a nap
    lighting a scented candle
    coming to this blog
    walking my dog
    … and on and on

    Every time I start to feel like I need some “man time” and want to initiate something, I turn to my list to distract myself and make myself feel happy.

    What’s on your list?

  227.  #227lm on July 16, 2010 at 12:42 pm


    love it!

    -clean my house
    -do laundry
    -listen to podcasts (TED talks and This American Life)
    -go for a walk
    -go window shopping
    -inner bonding
    -call a girlfriend
    -declutter (feels so good!)
    -go to a movie
    -financial planning (sounds boring but you feel really good when it’s done)
    -turn off my phone and take a bath

  228.  #228Brenda on July 16, 2010 at 12:44 pm

    Sapphire n Jewels,

    See the last few posts Siena, Melissa, and I just put on the “Strong, Independent…” thread. Just keep doing visualizations in your alone time, “I am a water wheel”; “Let the man pick up the oars:, etc. Then start using the visualizations right while you are with him! Be in your girl, inside your self, deep where your feminine power lies, while you are with him. Lean back, and let him come to you.

    I’m glad it’s getting better overall! Keep it positive!

  229.  #229Brenda on July 16, 2010 at 12:47 pm


    I wish I found enjoyment in housework, financial planning and decluttering! Then my house would look like yours! Instead, it looks like a hurricane aftermath. (**hanging head in shame**) But I’m in process, and I approach my hating housework part with compassion.

    Anyway, here is my like list:

    Walking my dogs
    Playing on Siren Island (here)
    Going out to eat
    Reading psychology and theology

  230.  #230Brenda on July 16, 2010 at 1:03 pm

    Ok, I admit it. I don’t want to work today either. Bill’s not here and I want to play…on Siren Island!

  231.  #231sapphire-n-jewels on July 16, 2010 at 1:21 pm

    Thank you. I love your ideas. I must admit I did do a list on my Iphone but never looked at it since. That is one of the problems I tend to revert back to normal patterns. I will revise me list and try and come up with some quick ones I can do
    Mine are
    Listen to Rori
    Paint my nails
    Pluck my eyebrows (never seem to have time for this one lol)
    Listen to some music
    Go on Computer
    Wash my hair
    Put on moisturise( oh just had a good idea, why not put that on in front of him, especially on my legs and things, he might find that a turn on lol)
    Read a book
    Make Hot choc
    Talk to a friend
    Watch comedy
    Stroke the dogs
    Sing my Zippy de doo daa in my head lol
    Go for a walk
    Clean kitchen. An extensive list I know and never even looked at it again until now.
    Thanks ladies XXXX

  232.  #232Lucy on July 16, 2010 at 4:55 pm

    I feel so excited! I FINALLY got the message about these twenty-somethings!!! The newest 25, who asked me out for this weekend . . . well, I replied to his email and without realizing what I was doing, I had a completely different vibe this time — instead of telling him No in a playful, teasing kind of way, I actually responded in a slightly motherly way!

    I wrote: “Hi. I tried to respond to your im request but it never works for me. Thanks for your sweet email. I feel better getting to know men closer to my age — and I noticed that your profile says you’re looking for women 18-26. I might let you date my daughter if you’re worthy of her. :)”

    He replied: “Thanks for the nice email. You seem like a really sweet gal, and I’d go out of my age range to meet you 🙂 Otherwise, if your daughter is in my age range let me know!”

    I like this kid! And I feel really good about this new boundary that I seem to have created for myself without even thinking about it!

    Now, to find out if he’s good enough for my girl….. 🙂

  233.  #233Erika Awakening on July 16, 2010 at 6:11 pm

    Hey everyone,

    Weird … I feel my single life passing before my eyes tonight …

    Almost like another near-death experience …


  234.  #234sapphire-n-jewels on July 17, 2010 at 10:03 am

    Oh dame
    Hi 🙁
    I did it again today. We were in a scuba diving store, him to buy stuff for his trip tomorrow and me to do my try dive. We meet in route and I followed him rest of way. When I got out of the car he had already walked in – what do you think of that – it only just occured to me that he did not wait for me. When I got in there I went up to him and leaned in for a kiss, which I got a peck on the lips and then when I went off for my dive I did the same thing, again went over and leaned in for another kiss. Will I never learn.
    Jewels xxx

  235.  #235Daria on July 17, 2010 at 1:57 pm

    OMgosh Lucy that’s awesome! I love when I just get a shift in vibe and then the trigger thingy just clears up naturally… without my tensing up around it! yeah!

    I’m now working on something that feels scary and intense to me, boundaries around sex, ie that i dont like to have sex with a man that is not super into going down on me, it keeps popping up! i want a vibe shift

    im taking it personally, like if they dont like to do that its because they’re not into ME, which may or may not be the truth, a voice of mine says it is, because in the past men that know me have always volunteered services, i didnt have to let them know that i want that, hmmm

    am practicing being truthful about it, i feel weird and tongue tied blah

  236.  #236Lizzie on July 17, 2010 at 4:35 pm

    222, 221 Shannon and Siena
    How you manage your kids and dates feels good to me. I would much prefer to casually introduce my kids to my dates, than have to go through a formal introduction – like dinner – if the kids have never seen him before. Oh that is so scary! Trigger trigger….

    I just picked up my daughter from summer camp. I had had a note from her that she was “starving” – she is an athlete and was at a regular camp and the other girls are not athletes so they don’t eat anywhere near what my daughter eats. So I brought a fabulous picnic and took my son (he is at the same camp for a month) out for the day. I had for them roast beef, shrimp, blueberries, cherry tomatoes, fresh bread, fruit smoothies….they were in heaven. And I leaned back with them. They unpacked everything, spread it all around, and all I could hear was: Mom I can’t believe you were thinking of us, mom this is so awesome, mom thank you so much…and I just let the wonderful feeling of peace and love just sink into me. And they swam together, and talked calmly to each other and me. I feel such happiness glowing from the inside. And all is pleasant and tranquil. happy sigh….

    I am do happy to be learning how to feel.

  237.  #237Lizzie on July 17, 2010 at 4:46 pm

    sigh….very long drive home…..I’m feeling so tranquil and content

    I shall continue shredding stuff (I moved my office into my home and must shred boxes and boxes of confidential material – it is very therapeutic, but the chaos is making me nuts), then I will knit and drink wine….(even though I hve been terribly sick for 10 days, have lost my voice and can’t stop coughing – I dont care, I am feeling so content…)

  238.  #238Lizzie on July 17, 2010 at 4:55 pm

    Daria maybe you might enjoy teaching them how to do it so that it gives you maximum pleasure? Maybe these men don’t really know how to do it? Make it play time and really fun because once they experience how amazing the pleasure is for you, they will really embrace it. My more recent experience fits a lot of what Rori is teaching us – man likes to please and be giving to woman – woman must lean back and embrace receiving. So if your man is stepping up on the giving side of things, my feeling is he hasn’t got a clue how to give fabulous oral pleasure.
    And for sure, the next guy who becomes a permanent fixture in my life must be brilliant! (after all I was married to a gay guy who NEVER EVER did it for me – never used his hands either – I should have known then……oh well….next!)

  239.  #239dorothea on July 17, 2010 at 5:02 pm

    daria, i havent met too many black men that “do that.”

    white guys, on the other hand…they beg me to do it. lol.

  240.  #240Lizzie on July 17, 2010 at 5:06 pm

    dorothea – is that right??? black men don’t do oral??? white guys love it???? amazing…. I had no idea!…..

  241.  #241joan on July 17, 2010 at 5:49 pm

    I was wondering whether the guys that Daria is CDing were black, but I didn’t want to make such an overreaching assumption. The primary reason it came to my mind was a Richard Pryor routine from one of his albums in the 1970’s about how black men don’t “eat p*ssy”.

    I feel so old right now admitting that I remember albums and the 70’s. ;-P

  242.  #242Daria on July 17, 2010 at 7:48 pm

    Lol well Richard Pryor didn’t meet me lol so I could testify to the contrary.

  243.  #243Daria on July 17, 2010 at 7:53 pm

    Lol. I feel triggered. I mostly date black menand a majority of the time this has not come up as an issue. On the other hand… I remember how when I was young Romanian girls didn’t give head because it was ‘for prostitutes. ‘

    But now with globalization things have changed.

    Lol .


  244.  #244Daria on July 17, 2010 at 8:01 pm

    Get I get triggered by sex and race subjects. Especially in porn. White slut gets banged by monster black Mandingo. I feel weird and icky and tightened up around this subject… It messes with my porn experience . But I don’t allow it to mess w my real experience. All men I date must be down to eat my pussy… And all really have at least tried… Except for one now… Not really concerned about him tho… He’s got lots of emotional hangips too… Ditto with the other ones.

    I’m feeling frustrated that this has come up with my last two sex partners tho… And now this new guy… It feels weird… And I feel uncomfortable talking directly about it so maybe that’s why it’s come up.

    Ps. Dorothea I net a black man from Denver a couple days ago who said he loves todo that.. So there

  245.  #245Daria on July 17, 2010 at 8:06 pm

    How do u guys feel so comfortable talking about race? I feel terribly uncomfortable even now. I feel judged by people about dating black men . I don’t even feel comfortable typing that right now. I feel triggered beyond triggered of uncomfortableness. And I feel guilty to feel triggered.

  246.  #246joan on July 17, 2010 at 9:08 pm

    Hey Daria,

    I feel bad that you’re feeling triggered. Observing whether someone is black, asian, latino, white, etc. is not necessarily the same as judging; it can just be an observation like whether someone is blond, brunette, redhead, blue-eyed, brown-eyed, green-eyed, etc.

    I only felt curious, not judgmental. Dorothea’s comment felt like an opportunity to express my curiosity. Your comments had reminded me of some black guys that I knew in college. They sometimes joked around about “never gonna eat a p*ssy”, so their remarks and the Richard Pryor album are the extent of my information.

    If that really was the general sentiment 35(+/-) years ago, then I’d hope that things had changed. I feel happy to know that your experiences have been different.

    As for the porn experiences, well, I’m usually paying more attention to the size of the wand than its color. 😉

  247.  #247Daria on July 18, 2010 at 3:31 am

    Hi Joan – this is a big trigger for me in my life. Just jumping off being triggered to explore myself, just touch on the feelings, stick my toe in

    did not imply anything about you judging etc

    this is how triggering works, something reminds me of something, then i feel a feeling, then i think of what was it that triggered that feeling?

    then explore my feelings around that, love the feelings

    i feel kind of afraid that people may not know what’s going on when i start riffing … sometimes my voices are talking, sometimes im addressing situations in my past, etc without really specifying

  248.  #248dorothea on July 18, 2010 at 8:25 am

    daria is the trigger queen. she embraces her triggers and riffs through them here. 🙂

  249.  #249Jeannette on July 18, 2010 at 8:37 am

    I am starting to think relationships are just too hard. I took my b’friend over to meet my grown kids last night. He is a pretty shy man and really didn’t say much of anything. They in turn, could have talked to him more, trying to get to know him and such….SO, this morning, I havn’t heard from him yet, which does not necessarily mean anything but I am wondering. I am going to his families barbeque today and meet his family. He told me I will have fun and his family will want to talk with me and such, and they will get me laughing and stuff. I just wonder if that is his way of telling me that he could see my children did not seek him out well last night with their first meeting. I was sort of disappointed in them for that and sort of disappointed in him for not wanting to talk more, although I know he is very shy at first. Now I just feel like, hey, maybe this isn’t going to work after all. Tired of getting my hopes up I guess.

  250.  #250faubourg on July 18, 2010 at 1:16 pm

    hello everyone,

    i have a question, could you please give me your feedbacks on that? :

    i am not ready to have dates with men because they do not see me. they do not invite me and also i do not go out much where there are many men.

    and i am also so worried and “in my head” that i look too busy or too worried and my clothes say out loud “i am not interested in seduction i am busy” (but busy like i have three or six kids to look after and i have no time for seduction even though i am single and with NO child)

    so i thought that to start the process maybe i could talk to men myself and see how and what i do when i am with them.

    writing this i realize that i often maybe always do the first step when i like a man!!!!!! oh my god! it has to be in a safe situation where i know the man is safe (ex: a cafeteria with several companies eating there or a colleague etc.. it is never someone i don’t know at all that i meet in the street or outside.

    and when a man (i like) shows signs that he wants to talk to me or ask for my phone number i run away.

    i feel ugly actually, i am not but i feel ugly and i expect a man to ignore me completely and look at other women, it is hard in my heart, i feel hurt straight away.

    thank you if you have advice for me

    i wish you the best,

  251.  #251Brenda on July 19, 2010 at 9:10 am


    I think sometimes we have to push ourselves out of our comfort zone. If you open yourself up to circular dating, or even just dating yourself in public places, you will open yourself up to the positive energy that goes with interacting with men. Try it and be surprised!

  252.  #252faubourg on July 19, 2010 at 9:55 am

    thank you so much Brenda, it is such a hard thing for me to do but yes i have to push (it is really that) myself out of my comfort zone. already i have noticed big changes, i see very handsome men everyday wherever i go even if i go out for ten minutes! (this is brand new)

    i have had a heavy year (i went back to my studies this year) so i think i need some good hammam, facial, massage, waxing and then go and start circular dating and dating myself (i am going out on thursday evening i will see what happens).

    i thank you so much for your answer, i was feeling a little lonely on the blog… but that is my rejection pattern going on, same as with men (nobody is noticing me, talking to me etc… and it is so false)
    this blog is so uplifting and warmful

    i hope you are very fine

    what did you find the most difficult when you started CDating?

  253.  #253Brenda on July 19, 2010 at 9:59 am

    Hi Faubourg,

    You’re welcome! You will find a lot more company on the blog if you go to the first 2 or 3 threads. That’s where everyone usually hangs out.

    The hardest thing when I started CDing was having the motivation to do it, because my heart was still so wrapped up in Ryan. I didn’t WANT to develop any new attachments. I had committed to him deep in my heart, and I felt unfaithful to him, even tho we were not together anymore. I still struggle with it.

  254.  #254faubourg on July 19, 2010 at 1:46 pm


    thks 🙂

    i am sorry it is still hard for you to forget ryan.

    i am sure that the qualities that he has and that you love, you will find them in the new special men you will meet plus some more! and probably it is quality that you have yourself so even if he goes away these qualities stay right there with you!

    i was into a man lately but by focusing on what i want in the relationship (rori’s advice) it helped me a lot to let go of him (easy in fact! i was surprised).

    i opened my eyes and realized that no matter how handsome, cute, sexy, sensitive, caring funny he was (because he was all that!!) and how good it felt to be with an handsome man who was also very simple and with whom i could laugh cry and feel childish and talk about everything.

    deep down when i was with him i was feeling insecure and left behind. Indeed, he was someone who needed to be complimented and valorized and that was bad for my self esteem because he needed this too much.

    i still have your email, i am very busy these days i am letting go of some big issues which are (and were) draining me (wrong relationships, job, clutter in my house, sorting out my finances, focusing on what i really want in my life and making priority lists etc…)

  255.  #255faubourg on July 19, 2010 at 1:53 pm

    i realize that maybe i am still into someone i broke up with a few years ago, … i thought i would die it hurt so bad, it almost killed me!

    now i feel ok like it is in my past but being so unwilling to try again might be due to him, i need to try again, give myself another chance no! many other chances
    i must ask myself if i really want to try again, do I?

  256.  #256Heather on July 19, 2010 at 2:40 pm

    Hi Rori! First off, I have to say how much I LOVE your blog and your e-book. It is the absolute BEST advice I have discovered and I am going to share it with my daughter as she grows up!

    I am going to apologize in advance for this being kind of lengthy, but I haven’t really seen anything similar to it on the blog. Here is my current situation – I am an only parent. My daughter’s sperm donor (and that term is me being generous to him!) is completely out of the picture. No child support, no contact, etc. (This is actually a good thing, and he was abusive physically, emotionally, spiritually, etc.). My parents live out of state roughly an 18 hour drive away. I work 50 hours a week and have little time for my daughter, so the time I do have with her, I cherish. I do not have a babysitter for her, as I feel that we do not get to spend enough time together with my work schedule as is. She is only 2. I am 28 and have never been married or engaged. SHE is the center of my world.

    I met an amazing man at the lowest point in my life. (Just like you said, when you are at your most vulnerable and authentic, there he was!) We met at work when he was doing contract work for a set three month period. I had just filed for bankruptcy, (thanks mostly the the ex ruining my finances in hopes of controlling me and forcing me to stay with him), was grossly overweight (literally, 100 pounds overweight easily) and what first started out as a friendship has become something more over the past year. He is 12 years older than me, is incredibly sexy, is hardworking, stable financially, and is smart and funny to boot!

    I never asked him to stop dating other women, 4 months into us dating, HE came to ME and told me that’s what he wanted to do. I have lost all the weight and people can’t believe I had a baby (which I gained all that weight being pregnant and miserable being with the ex – to all you other ladies out there, it is possible to fix your life no matter the state it is currently in!)

    Now we are in an exclusive, committed relationship. Although I CHOOSE not to see anyone else because I don’t want a bunch of men around my daughter and I don’t have a babysitter for her, I “date myself” instead of circular dating. When I am not out with him, I do flirt with other men, and I make sure to respond and flirt back with the hottie at work, and have not closed myself off to men in general because I don’t have a ring on my finger or a wedding date set. I keep the focus on me, what I want, my feelings, etc. and it really helps me keep things in perspective.

    The relationship is literally storybook thus far. He takes me AND my daughter out for dinner dates, we spend the weekends together, we visit a few times a week, mostly at his request (for every 4-5 times he initiates, I may ask him to come over). He does all the man things around my apartment for me, he pretty much is the best man I have ever been with hands down.

    We communicate VERY well. I use feeling messages all the time with him, I can talk to him about when I am happy, sad, frustrated, etc. I stopped overfunctioning, I stopped trying to control the outcome, and things really are great. He says that he LOVES how I share my feelings with him and I just tell him how I feel and don’t blame or judge, etc.

    The only issue we have is that he doesn’t know if he wants to be a daddy full time. I guess I shouldn’t say only, because it is a big one. In fact, he had a vasectomy 12 years ago and never wanted children. I never wanted children and became pregnant even though condoms were used correctly every time (see, they aren’t 100% effective!) We agree on finances, not having any more kids, religion, all of those “hot button” issues. Our sex life is fantastic. Better than I have ever had in my entire life, and he says the same.

    I know I can’t convince him (nor would I want to!) that us being together permanently would be a great thing. I know I can’t control the outcome, just as I know that if he doesn’t see for himself what a special thing we have going on than he doesn’t deserve me anyways. When we go out together with the baby, he insists on carrying her. When people comment that he “is such a happy daddy” and “his daughter is so beautiful”, he gets the biggest grin on his face and never corrects anyone. He treats her as his own. He has been around her now for half of her life. You can tell that he genuinely has affection for her, and she for him, and that he isn’t in any way just barely tolerating her to be with me.

    I have told him that I am going to get married and have a permanent father for my daughter and if that is something he never wants, that he needs to be honest with me. I know for a fact from his ex girlfriend of 3 years that he flat out told her he was never going to marry her. When HE brought up this ex and their relationship, he confirmed he told her that, but that he doesn’t feel that way about me. He told me that he simply isn’t certain at this point if he wants to be a daddy full time, but that he loves being with us, has feelings for us both, and just needs to make sure 110% that he can be a great dad full time and give both of us what we deserve. I would rather he was honest (and he has been thus far) then us end up getting married and having him resenting my daughter.

    Now that you have the background, I am to the point where I wonder what do I do next? Am I fooling myself about allowing him this time to decide? I love being with him, but he isn’t my life. I make sure he knows I am not waiting around for him to decide but that since I am not currently feeling this NEED to get married RIGHT NOW, it’s ok. I feel that if things with him continue to be this great that another year or so from now I want to be on the path to marriage for certain. I have told him this when he has asked me how I feel about marriage. And I do mean the ring on my finger, wedding date set, type of thing. I know that I will NOT live with him or any man unless I have those two things. My boundaries are firmly in place; I deserve stability and security as does my child.

    Any suggestions or input is much appreciated!!

  257.  #257Brenda on July 19, 2010 at 7:38 pm


    You’re welcome, and thank you! It sounds like you are making some very healthy changes in your life! I am doing the same, baby step by baby step!

    Do you really want to try again? What are the alternatives if you don’t?

  258.  #258faubourg on July 20, 2010 at 1:50 am

    i Brenda,

    i am glad that you are making thoses steps also, it feels good i breathe so much better after,
    and as it is baby steps it is not dangerous and i talk about it to friends also to have some other view points,

    yes i feel ready for the change! and i feel the urge to do all this, it is now! i feel it deep inside, baby steps yes but each day (almost) i do sthg i haven’t done for ages and that needed be done.

    on the subject of trying again, i realized last night writing the post that i am not ready for being hurt again! it would not be possible for me, i could not take it, and also i have lost my “flame”, i feel cold inside, for everything in my life,

    the alternatives? well becoming colder and colder, losing my spark, my driving force, my gist,
    even more than now,

    i realized that i can’t do it on my own i have settled into a (reassuring) lifestyle without any danger (so i think) and i can’t get out of it, i feel stuck in it, and anyway i was never good in love interactions, i am learning some basics only today (which is fun!, maybe i can start from there to bring back the envy).

    by reading this post, i realize that i say i am ready for changes and feel like doing them and at the same time i say that i have lost it, i don’t feel it anymore! it is weird…

    it is two different energies within me,

    do you think that to be in a relationship you have to be perfect?

    i like your smiling picture and the nice pictures i see on the blog, it is nice,

  259.  #259Brenda on July 20, 2010 at 8:23 am

    Hi Faubourg,

    It feels nice to hear back from you! Most women are a soup of emotions. It is natural for us to feel opposing emotions, at times, simultaneously! What I am learning on here is to embrace my feelings, both the positive and negative.

    No, we don’t have to be perfect. Of course not! Who is? But when we are self-aware and patiently working towards emotional wholeness and healthy relational skills, we open ourselves up for happy ever after romances!

    I really hope you are able to listen to some of Rori’s programs, like I really recommend Commitment Blueprint. I grew a lot through that. She covers a huge array of topics, and the light at the end of the tunnel is not only a loving man, but also to discover and develop OUR Purpose On the Planet (P.O.P.) and develop our own lives.

    Rori presents some really healthy concepts and tools, and I love the way she makes it so practical to implement them, with visualizing and writing to process what’s going on in our soup of emotions.

    I hope you step out of your comfort zone, which is really a cage that is limiting you from flying free and being all that you can be and all that you can have!

  260.  #260Rori Raye on July 23, 2010 at 12:32 am

    Heather, Welcome – and first, notice I took off your last name – so please sign in again to comment as Heather only…that way I won’t have to worry about any name weirdness later. Next – you sound FANTASTIC!!! Please just keep on doing what you’re doing and give this good man some time. Just set a time limit for yourself (since you’re not anxious to marry right now – I’d love to see you enjoy this for now – you really deserve to be loved and cared for right now – kind of a rest period) – maybe 6 to 9 months…whatever feels good to you…don’t mention it to him, just keep track for yourself – and if no movement has been made, then give him the “no girlfriend” speech and turn your dating yourself into actual Circular Dating. Love, Rori

  261.  #261Heather on July 23, 2010 at 9:38 am

    Rori-Thanks!! That was kind of what I had in mind, but couldn’t quite get it to form. I think by that point and that time period of the relationship remaining at a stand still, I will be ready to put myself out there for lunch dates and visits after my daughter is in bed to see what else could pop up. And if I start feeling ready for marriage sooner than that, I have no problem giving the speech!

  262.  #262Heather on July 30, 2010 at 9:25 am

    Ok, I need to vent. I am hurt and angry and feel just ARGH about this whole situation. Talk about a complete 180! My first post was above about the guy that is 40 and wasn’t sure if he wanted to be a daddy permanently or not to my 2 year old daughter.

    So after he started his new job (after being laid off for 6 months) we have barely seen or spoken to each other. Been together a year, felt SO close to him a few weekends ago over his 40th b-day weekend, and now nothing.

    On top of that, one of his friends passed away recently and it was sudden and unexpectedly. The friend was a man who had never been married, had no kids, no family, and boatloads of money and did whatever he wanted, whenever he wanted. Instead of this maybe showing my bf that he doesn’t want to end up alone, it seems to have pushed him more into the “I want to do what I want, when I want, and have no one to answer to!” If this is how he really is, then I am glad I see this now versus us being married and whatnot.

    I just feel really bummed. I have leaned back completely. He called me last Saturday early AM to ask if we could get together, I said sure. We did, and ended up having sex and it was great, as always. Very romantic and snuggly and just good. I told him that I missed feeling close to him, and that I didn’t like feeling that there was this distance between us. He told me he is just adjusting to his new job and has been busy. As I am getting ready for bed, he tells me that he isn’t staying over because he is going out with his friends the next day. He pretty much ALWAYS spends the weekend at my apartment, or my daughter and I would stay at his house. I just LOVE how he waited until after we had sex so he could tell me that, too. So that made me feel like a booty call, which I am not ok with!

    No contact until Tuesday when he asked if he could come over. He did. Not ONCE did he ask me what had been going on with me, how my day was, nothing. (Mind you, I am having the nightmare from hell week at work).

    No contact Wednesday.

    Yesterday, he texts me at 5pm, just as I am leaving work, with “want to do something for dinner?” Since I was in the car, I called him versus sitting there to text. He asks if I want to do something for dinner. I say sure, but since we hadn’t had plans, I had nothing defrosted to make. THEN he says (oh, this really got my blood boiling) “oh, well maybe I will just head on home, then.” Ummm… you contact me LAST MINUTE asking to do dinner (which I think should have been him taking me out) and then when I don’t jump up to make something, it’s nevermind??

    But it gets better. Then he says, “well, lets’ go out.” I say ok. Then he starts talking about how busy he is, and how he needs to get his car fixed, and how he has to get a part for his kitchen sink and is heading over to Lowe’s, so maybe he will just call me when he is done. So at this point, it sounds like he is just trying to get out of it. So I said, “do you just want to get your stuff done? I don’t really want to get together tonight if I am going to feel like you are distracted the whole time with other things.” So he says, “yeah, I do have a lot to get done. We’ll talk sometime later.” And that was pretty much it.

    I sat there for a minute, cried for a few, then texted him with, “I miss you. I don’t like how this feels right now, and I hope things calm down for you soon.” Maybe not the best idea, but I had to say something. And I got no response. No text, no call back, no call later, nothing. Haven’t heard from him.

    I don’t know what has changed, but obviously something has. I know it’s his loss, and to throw myself back out there I joined eharmony this week. And I am trying not to let myself get all CRAZY about it. I can’t control him, and I don’t want to. I want to be with someone who wants to be with me, and all I have been getting from him are crumbs since this job started, and that is not ok.

    I am proud that I have resisted the urge to scream at him, or text him a lot, or call. I have come a long way thanks to Rori’s ebook and this blog. I just really needed to get it off my chest so I can get on with my day. I just seems so bizarre to me that he could change SO dramatically practically overnight!

  263.  #263Brenda on July 30, 2010 at 10:20 am


    Maybe a few tweaks in your feeling messages and you will have a good man. When he asked you, “Want to do something for dinner?”, rather than immediately assume you were cooking (you set yourself up for that!), you could have said, “Oh, that would feel so good!” or something like that.

    Then if HE assumed you were cooking, rather than explain you have nothing defrosted, you could say, “Oh, that feels bad. I don’t want to cook. What do you think?” or something like that.

    Then he would say, “Well I’ve got this and that to do. Maybe I will just call you when I’m done.”

    You could say, “That feels horrible. I don’t like to be treated second class. What do you think?”

    See how use of feeling messages could have made this a different scenario? It seems like you are so used to him taking you for granted that you just fall into his pattern of treating you less than valuable. You gave him an excuse to not take you out for dinner when he was hinting towards it.

    I am not saying you are to blame. I am saying don’t tolerate this kind of behavior. When you go into meditation on Rori’s excellent visualizations, you start to think of yourself as royalty. And you are. Each of us is special and valuable and worthy of deep respect and honor.

    Feeling messages create your boundaries so either a man treats you as such, or he doesn’t get to be with you!

    FYI, usually most of the women go to the more recent threads, so what you write will be more likely to be seen there.